Julian Dorey Podcast - HEATED DEBATE: Charlie Kirk, the Elites, NASA Moon Landing & Soviet History | Elizabeth Lane • 355

Episode Date: November 14, 2025

SPONSORS: 1) MIZZEN & MAIN: Right now, Mizzen & Main is offering our listeners 20% off your first purchase at http://mizzenandmain.com , promo code JULIAN20 2) GHOSTBED: Right now, GhostBed’s Black Friday Sale, you can get 25% off already-reduced prices, PLUS a free Massaging Neck Pillow with your mattress purchase. Just go to http://GhostBed.com/julian and use promo code JULIAN at checkout PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey (***TIMESTAMPS in description below) ~ Elizabeth Lane is an investigative journalist and Chief Operating Officer at UNIFYD TV. ELIZABETH's LINKS: X: https://x.com/imelizabethlane IG: https://www.instagram.com/elizabethlaneofficial/?hl=en FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY INSTAGRAM (Podcast): https://www.instagram.com/juliandoreypodcast/ INSTAGRAM (Personal): https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://twitter.com/julianddorey JULIAN YT CHANNELS - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Clips YT: https://www.youtube.com/@juliandoreyclips - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Daily YT: https://www.youtube.com/@JulianDoreyDaily - SUBSCRIBE to Best of JDP: https://www.youtube.com/@bestofJDP ****TIMESTAMPS**** 0:00 - John Kiriakou, Georgian Roots & Elizabeth’s Story, JFK 11:15 - USSR & Gorbachev, Fascism vs Communism, Elites 22:49 - Brainwashing, Lobbying, CIA & Corporations 33:52 - Why Julian Thinks America is Still the Best, Economic Hitman 43:38 - JFK’s Vision, NASA Moon Landing, Conspiracy Overload Problem 55:29 - Delusional Power, Soviet History, Joseph Stalin 1:07:36 - Types of Communism in USSR, Stalin vs. Leninists 1:26:02 - Generalizing Problems, Elites & Hitler during WW2 1:38:45 - Shadow Government, Relationship w/ Russia 1:48:08 - Vladimir Putin 2:03:00 - Putin Dictator Actions, Putin k1lling Nemtsov 2:13:15 - Julian’s Hang Up With What is Happening Today 2:21:39 - Elizabeth’s Coverage of Charlie Kirk Shooter’s Trial 2:31:57 - Who is lying about Charlie Kirk Assassination, “Miracle” Tweet 2:42:06 - Stupid Conspiracies Around Charlie’s D3ath, Investigating what happened 2:56:05 - Understanding counterarguments CREDITS: - Host, Editor & Producer: Julian Dorey - COO, Producer & Editor: Alessi Allaman - https://www.youtube.com/@UCyLKzv5fKxGmVQg3cMJJzyQ - In-Studio Producer: Joey Deef - https://www.instagram.com/joeydeef/ Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 355 - Elizabeth Lane Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I think today, I think, Elizabeth, I just want to respond to some of this because there's a lot you just put out there. I think today in this discussion so far, however far we are in, you know, maybe like an hour, 50 minutes or something, I think that I'm going to look at this tape and see a fuck ton of mistakes in how to handle certain things that I have made on my end. this has not been a good day for me but that's not your fault that's my I think it was an amazing day for you but I don't I don't I think there's I think there were a couple times where I jumped the gun on your argument that wasn't fair to you and I also think there were multiple times where there are hypocrisies within my own country that I know in my head that I didn't lead with out front that should be led with so that if you're going to make a point you don't throw a stone from a glass house and I'm sure people are going to let me hear it on that and i understand that basically just had like a movie happened behind the scenes with that whole story i wish we could tell that on air one day one day how like one day like tomorrow next week what about uh what's a one person's lifespan like 60 or 70 or 70 all right that's not going to work No, that sounded like a fucking, you know, Stephen Spielberg movie going on there. One day, it's just, you know, the consequences, right?

Like you say something, and it's not up to me. I mean, I can say it like right now, but then other people are involved, so their lives will be in danger. Oh, so you're worried about the other end of it. I got you. Yeah, not me. Like, I don't care about it. Like, I did nothing wrong. Right, and you're here.

Yeah. Yeah, so that works. So for him. Right. it will be not a good case yeah yeah the long journey home right right i gotcha people don't know what we're talking about too bad but elizabeth lane it's great to have you here thank you for inviting me of course you have mutual friend john kiriaku so john's guy simon had hit me up and i was like yeah i've seen this is the girls going to the charlie kirk shooter's trial like actually like

in the courthouse and stuff so i'm like i would love to talk with you about that today but You cover a whole lot of stuff. I'm sure we'll get into it with all that. But you're from the country, Georgia, like not Atlanta, Georgia. I always say I'm from the U.S., but I was born in Georgia. Yeah, so you really, you don't fuck with Georgia anymore. I love the country. It's just, it's not my country anymore, you know.

So, and I would like to see this happen more in the U.S. when people have double citizenships and they have double loyalties and so on, like pick one country and be loyal to them. Well, you've lived that. So, yeah, I mean, you have credibility to say that for sure. Did you feel, well, let's start here. You're born in Georgia. Yes.

From there, but that sounds like a bit of a cop-out, but, you know, whatever. No, I mean, you can say I'm from Georgia. I'm proud of Georgians. Right. It's a great country. It's an Asian country. Second Christian country in the world, right? So people don't know that.

They are predominantly Christian. They are very similar to Russian in a way, in a way, but they are not Slavs. So it's a great country. It is truly a great country. They share a lot with Americans. They love to freedom and constitution and all of that. They share that with the American people. But it just never was my culture.

So I was born there. I moved to the U.S. I found my people, my country, home. How old were you when you came to the U.S.? I think the first time I moved, well, first time I visited, U.S., I think I was 17. Okay, so you spent your whole childhood in Georgia.

Yeah. Yeah, I spent my childhood, high school in Georgia and so on. So I know a lot about the country. Why did you come to the U.S. to visit the first time? First time it was through, it's so funny. Well, first time I went through UN conference, I think. It was like about they got like these bright kids in school to do this UN conference. So that was my first visit to the United States.

And as I recall, it might have been earlier than that But yeah, so UN conference because I was always interested in politics I did a radio show back home So as a teenager? Yeah What was the radio show about politics? No, radio show was like cheesy weird stuff Like just talking about relationships and, you know, things like that

But my interest was always politics Even when I was acting. I acted like all throughout my childhood Oh, you were acting as a child? Yes, yes. So did you have like Hollywood dreams or? Yes, I did. actually. It's funny, like everyone asks me, like, did you move because of Hollywood? And I

kind of give into it and say, sure, yes, I did. But reality is, no, I actually moved for a completely different reason, which sounds stupid and funny. But when you think about it, it's not really stupid and funny. So in high school, I got an assignment. Okay? So I was supposed to pick a president, any president, or a leader of the country that I thought did something exceptional. And then write about his character, like what he left his legacy and so on. And I was like, okay, I don't know who to pick, right? So I'm going through like, who would I like? I thought about maybe Alexander the Great. I mean, he's still a leader, Greg. I stopped at Kennedy. Yeah, I knew where that was going. Right. And I was like going through his life,

listening to every speech that I could find. Pull that mic in just a little bit, Elizabeth. You're good. So going through like everything that I could find about this guy. I mean, ask me anything about Kennedys. I can tell you everything. Like their villa, Hickory Hill, that they used to like gather and play football. And I know everything, right? I fell in love with the ideologies this man had. And I was like, whatever these guys about, I want to be part of.

And that was when I decided I want to be part of the United States and everything it is about. Unfortunately, we are no longer about those things. but I believe we can go back to it. I think some people in power are no longer about those things. True, very true statement. I think a lot of people here are about those things. What types of on a broad 30,000 foot kind of view though? What types of ideologies about Kennedy specifically stood out to you?

I think first and foremost, he was four people. He believed that you can give power to people and they can determine what the course of the country should be. and which is actually the opposite of what elites believe, right? Like, they believe that, no, you got to be controlled. We have to, like, what Larry Fink said was force the behavior. Remember that? Like, so I don't believe that. I also don't believe in full democracy.

It didn't work out, obviously, for Greeks, right? I believe that it can be somewhat of a hybrid, or it can't just be what America was based on. You know, when founding fathers got together, and figure out, okay, so maybe the best model is the model that we are creating here for people to, you know, kind of have a say in what they want to be and how they want to be by giving them freedom of speech, by giving them freedom of religion, all of that. But at the same time, America is kind of a bureaucracy, right?

So bureaucracy is not full freedom. It cannot possibly be. So I think that's a great hybrid. It just we need to stick with it without becoming corporate fascism, which we have became. meaning, if I'm understanding this correctly, where it remains or should remain purely like a mix of democratic and republic principles. Absolutely. Okay.

I got you. What do you think? I would agree with that, the way I just put it. I want to make sure I unpack what you said later on some of that because there was a lot there. But the idea that like you have a mix of the like pure democracy is where technically every single thing ever is voted on you can't take a shit without a decision being made that obviously wouldn't be possible to have but when you have people making a decision on your behalf and i'm getting a little beyond democracy and republic pure definitions here but like when you have people that you select

democratically to make some decisions on your behalf that are in line with what you elect which is how it's mostly supposed to work and hasn't worked out very recently but you know that in that system to me is a pure system. To your point, I think we have had a bastardization of it. And I think the last thing you said is actually a really important part, which is that you have, you know, this kind of corporate matrix where one feeds the other. I've always brought this up. I'd love to get your thoughts on this. But I call it corporate fascism. And I hear and tell me what you think about this too, because I hear U.S. is becoming communist, communist, comey, come, come, come, comic like no it's not it's becoming fascist it's absolutely becoming fascist and there's a huge

distinction between these two and from someone who comes from a comic country which was georgia right we were communists much like russians like i can recognize the signs that it's not communism it is fascism that we are becoming which is more dangerous in my opinion what are those signs like for example what's the difference between communism and fascism and we don't have to go like far in deep to it. But do you own your house when you buy it in the U.S.? You kind of do, right? It's your property. But at the same time. Yeah. But you're dependent to even have that house. You're kind of dependent on all these payments and you're paying to who? Who are you paying to? Do the government necessarily? No, you're paying to a bank, right? So you have corporate elites. They're eating you

up, which is like pretty much what fascism is, like corporate elites getting together deciding what's good for what? The state, right? You don't have that in communism. You can have whatever you want for free, but it doesn't belong to you. The state in this case is playing the corporates. Yes. Yeah, like China's a good example. Yeah, exactly. So in communism, like my grandma, and I grew up more with my grandma than my parents, like that's another story. She lived... There's a lot of other stories with Elizabeth. She says that. Oh, it's a lot. It's a lot. So the thing is when I was, even like as I remember myself, like five-year-old, right? I want to go to bed without a story.

Like, yeah, like I was like, you know, staying at my grandma's, tell me a story, tell me a story. And she was like up here, like with the stories, but she would tell me these like stories from her life, right? So, which was like fascinating. And she lived communism. So she knew what it was like. She lived during Khrushchev.

She remembered Stalin as a kid. Like, she remembered all of that stuff. So I was like, tell me a story. Tell me a story and I gathered so many stories. So I know like what life looked like in communism and in Soviet Union, even though I was never part of it because when I was born, it kind of got dismantled, right? In 1991, with Gorbachev and all that, that we can talk about as well.

Freaking idiot Gorbachev. The man who took down the wall? He was a complete moron. Took down the wall. So? And caused what? Cause that's to end up exactly where we are. today. We can talk about that. I think that was more Yeltsin, but go ahead.

Well, yes and no. But yes and no. Gorbachev bought into Western promises. It was Gorbache who was promised that NATO would not advance an inch. So who promised exactly, like the same people that were pretty much controlling the CIA, the same elites? What was Baker and Bush? Bush was not a CIA puppet? Not a puppet, but the director. Yeah, he was the CIA. His entire family crafted this agency. You know this really well. Prescott. Exactly. And the CIA agent tells you that NATO would not advance and you believe him and you like make your 20 year plans in the future according to what he says to you.

Are you stupid? Like, you know what I mean? I see what you're saying. Yeah. Like who knows if he actually believed all of it though? Because unfortunately with the politicians and this is just how it is for better or worse, usually worse, it's one thing what they tell us and it's another thing what they say behind the scenes. But he acted as if he did, right? Sure.

So he put down the wall. He allowed the unification. And then he continued the course as if he believed. I don't know if he actually believed or not, but look at his actions. That's how I don't care what you say to me if you're doing the opposite, right? So your actions speak louder than your words. And seems to me that Gorbachev actually believed in it. And Yeltsin became a puppet, which we can talk about too.

Yeltsin was such a big puppet of the West that I don't think I've ever seen Russian president more dependent on the elites and what yeah he was dependent on something that man for eight years was was never sober never can tell you that have you seen that clip when he almost like fell he's like standing and like randomly just like almost falls it's yeah you know me I like to dress comfortably and not think about too much at all, which makes wearing dress clothes a big to-do. Sure, they look sharp, but they're stiff, hot, and high maintenance, which of course makes it hard to actually feel comfortable,

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Thank you. The fact that he was in charge during the Clinton years, too, it's just like imagine being a fly on the wall with the two of them in a room. It's so crazy. Clinton, like, who was a chameleon? Like, I've had, what was his name, Gary Burns? I think he wrote a book about it, former Secret Service agent. Like, he said, this guy was a pathological liar. Yeah, no shit, Sherlock.

And he was so good at it. He said that if Bill Clinton told me my name was not Gary, I would actually pull up the cart to see if it was. That's right. Like, that's Bill Clinton. And now pair that with the drunk, you know, Yeltsin, who's like, oh, West, like, what are friends? Like, what are you talking about? So, yeah, they totally bought it.

Yeah, Clinton is one of those guys, and I've heard from people that have met him over the years who didn't like them at all, hated them. But then they met them, and they're like, fuck, you can't not like this guy. What the fuck? I don't believe any of that stuff they say about you. Like, they go, even if they're, like, I'm talking. some dudes I've talked to who are like the hardest core of Republicans who hated him back then and whatever and then they'd meet him and they're like, God damn it, he's a good time, you know. Some about that guy.

I don't know. He's very good. Like, he's very good. I think that's part of the reason why Bush kind of like put him under his wing, right? This is where people don't connect the dots. Like you understand he was a governor of Arkansas, right? The CIA's drug operation. Right, where Mina was, you know.

Right. Exactly. Barry Seale and all of that. And all of a sudden, I think Clinton, number one, was too. charming. And second, he was just a good little boy for the CIA. And then he becomes the president. And even though he's Democrat, by the way, which you would think that a Republican like Bush would not like someone like Bill Clinton, right? Yet he said what? Like he's like my, he said like he's like my son or something like that. Really? I wonder how that went down. Like

Like what did he do? They all go to the same steakhouses on K Street. It's a giant, like George Carlin said it best, and it gets truer every day. It's a giant club, and you're not in it. You know? And you see people go in there, you know, whether it be a congressman or a senator, you know, even with Trump, like as president, who may come in and they may seem like more of an outsider or whatever. And then you see the kind of system swallow them up. But we got into this because we were talking about.

about communism and fascism. I don't want to get off that because it's an interesting point. Yeah. You're absolutely correct, by the way, in the clear distinctions and how they carry things out. Exactly. I overgeneralize in the past and purposely so I'm okay with it because what they do both have in common is that they're both totalitarian. They both seize control. So I've always looked at it like communists hate fascists. That's a historical thing. But they hate each other because they see each other in themselves, even if it's like, you do it with this or you do it with that.

It's also competition, right? Like, they both want to be on top. And it's like, well, they are in competition and they're exactly alike in terms of what they see the future should look like, right? So it's scary.

Yeah. But I always thought, honestly, that fascism was more scary than communism because communism, here's the problem with communism. It will destroy itself. You know, it will get to the point where it will eradicate itself and that's what happened with

Soviet Union. It was not American propaganda. It was it imploded from the inside because communism does not work. It doesn't work unless it's a need. Yeah. Question on that. So you don't think, because that would be the propaganda I'd be okay with if you're trying to like stop communism or something without, you know, overthrowing governments and killing millions of people. You don't think there was some sort of like messaging that the United States was able to get in there to push people? Well, yes and no. So messaging was always there. But I mean, you know, communism did not break down because of American messaging or because of CIA's hard work or something. It broke down because Russian people were never natural designed to be a communist. And neither were Georgians. Like I said,

how did I start with when I explained what Georgia was? They are freedom lovers. If you knew Georgia and past. I mean, these guys are like this big, okay? Like in Caucasian Mount, by the way, word Caucasian comes from my people, like Caucasian mountains. What is that? Where is that? In Georgia. So Caucasian comes from the word itself from Georgia. So these people manage to survive like through centuries and centuries of wars and invasions and like people are shocked. How are you a nation still? How? Well, your time. telling these people, then now they're going to bow down to communism? Like, wrong crowd, bro. Right. So that's what imploded Communists, but by itself, it's a faulty ideology, right?

It's not going to less. Now, fascism is a little bit of a different case. Yeah, why? Like, it allows elites to flourish. And it's not about one dictator like Stalin or, you know, she or whatever. Like, it allows multiple devils and multiple heads on one. dragon, right? And it's really hard to fight. I mean, look at what's going on here. You have a corporate, like in America. We have a corporate fascism. Tell me exactly who rules Black Rock or Vanguard. Can you tell me all the names? Can you tell me the shadowy people behind? No, you can't. You can tell me that, you know, yeah, well, CIA director, CIA director knows nothing. What does the CIA director? Well, take Kennedy's case. Kennedy changed the CIA director. He kicked out

Alan Dallas, they killed him anyway. Alan did it from his Georgetown apartment. Exactly, because he had loyal goons at the CIA that even director didn't know about. That's right. Director is a political appointee. Thank you. And the president here is a four-year employee.

There you go. So that's why it's more dangerous. And that's why Prescott, dear Prescott Bush, almost overthrew Roosevelt in something called the plot. I'm sure you've heard of it, right? When they tried to overthrow Roosevelt for what? fascism dictatorship in America. That's right.

Because he knew fascists can last. You're talking about the Smedley? Smidley Butler, yes. I'm so late. I'm here with intellectuals, guys. I don't get this often. Well, I appreciate you calling me an intellectual. That's one from New Jersey.

Put that on the board right there. We got that on tape, right, Bren? God damn it. That's the one time you're supposed to be wrong. We got Brennan in the studio today doing a little behind the scenes. But, yeah, so one of the things I've always talked about, That's just interesting to hear you have it where it's like communism and fascism, fascisms where the corporates control communisms where the government controls. Right.

But the same question of like the balance exists here in America. And I've always brought this up because it's a really tough answer where it's like the buck is always going to stop more somewhere. It's just the nature of like physics. When you roll a ball in a room, the room is never perfectly flat. so one side is going to lean more towards and it's like i think communism and fascism are amazing examples as to why you don't want the buck stopping with the government but you also don't want the buck stopping with the quote unquote free market because then it becomes very not free right so how do you how do you find that equilibrium in america where okay both these things have

to exist okay there's powerful people in both there will always be some aspect of that but at least like the people, the 99% of us are represented. Right. Well, I mean, you're asking a very tough question. I know. And it's really hard to answer because I always thought, I don't know what exactly like your thoughts are when it gets to corporate or government, right? I actually thought, I think Americans have been brainwashed into thinking that corporate should have more power. I actually thought that no. I think it should be government and I'll tell you why I think that. Because government, I can vote in, vote out. And I can impecc. I cannot vote in or vote out a CEO or a shareholder or I cannot impeach them.

What I cannot even do is convince people not to buy a certain brand. They will still go for it when there's like, you know what I mean? Like there's need for it. And you saw what happened with the, what was the company that was in hot waters recently for like child trafficking? Cracker barrel? Oh, no. Sorry, crack a barrel. That wasn't where I thought that was doing.

Anyway, the point is the, I don't remember exactly which company was, but they got in hot waters and their sales. Yeah, we're affected like a month or so. And that's it, right? For child trafficking? Yeah, something like that. Like either child or sex trafficking. Anyway, the point is that. So it's like a company?

Can we pull up who that was? Like, I think, was it Wayfair? That's what I was thinking, was it, Valenciaga? Wayfair, Wayfar, wayfar, way fair. People thought they were like shipping kids through. yeah oh come on i don't know if that's true but like i'm giving like example right so it's not true yeah it was bad PR oh i'll bet it was bad PR i didn't hear about that so like so what happened is this something like this goes out right and it still didn't really affect them do you understand

what i'm saying and like amazon everyone knows that amazon's employees are working like you know slaves pretty much right because they can't take a fucking bad there you go thank you so So what that stopped Amazon sales, like people got all of a sudden very, you know, honorable and said we're not going to buy from Amazon anymore? No. So you can't fight corporate world in any way. You can vote them out. You can vote them in.

You cannot convince people not to buy from them. You can't do that. But what you can do is you can vote in a senator, sorry, congressman. You can vote for your government in or out, right? Like you can change these people. You can impeach a president because you have good. guys that you voted for like there you have some power but what power do you have in a corporate world i agree with the corporate world part it just becomes tough on the other end because

the corporates pay the politicians that you vote in good point well then you start freaking lobbying stop freaking lobbying like you stop lobbying there and this just i i just never could rip my head around, why is lobbying allowed? And why is foreign lobbying allowed at all? Like, it's crazy to me. So stop doing that and you have cleaner version of your government. And then the government can regulate the corporate world. You know, you can, what was it? I guess what we are trying to say here, if it's a hybrid of government power and corporate world, then it can work. But if one has more power than the other, it won't. Yeah, you're talking about equilibrium.

Yeah. So, but how do you get to that equilibrium? You're certainly don't get to it by brainwashing American people to take government's powers away because that's what corporate world wants, right? Like, that's exactly what they want. Then they are unregulated. Now, after this crazy guy, Luigi Mangione, killed this guy, the CEO, right? Now they started this narrative, well, we should hide all the names of corporate

CEOs and all that now you can't even get to them and know exactly who they are okay like how is that good how is that good you can't lose that battle it's it's not it this is where you know i i'm i'm an optimist with things i think we work through things that doesn't mean you don't have bad times and you can't recognize that though and and this is where i look at this certain fragility that we have in society now where it scares me a little bit because there is such a gap and let's let's call it what it is what underlies everything we're talking about right is the american dream and to be more specific economic opportunity now both still exist in this country but we can all read charts and you look since the early 1980s the chart is absolutely clear as day you see it go like this

to where you have a smaller and smaller class that has more and more money and the middle class of America, which is where the American dream of like, you know, suburban life, family, white picket fence and a dog and everyone dies happy and doesn't have to worry about their retirement. That's where that lives. That has shrunk more and more and more. And there's a million factors that go into that. But I think what that does to society, of course, is it takes away hope. It generates anger and it also then can feed on fear. And we are seeing all of those things come together right now to the point that, you know, I don't like the health care system at all. I think it's horrible. By the way, they pay off the whole government too. So I think it's despicable in a lot of ways. It's a group think problem. When you then suddenly have a part of society saying, therefore a rando can rent a city bike, drive down 57th Street and mark a guy at 6 a.m. in the street in New York, because, of the job position he has I understand your anger

at the industry. Don't disagree with that. The precedent of that and the fact that so many people are like, yeah, that's fine. That's a little scary to me. That's very scary. Again, the problem is in people themselves. But

these people have been brainwashed by who? The corporations? Yeah, and the CIA. Why do we call this military, industrial, I would add, intelligence, complex. Like, from the days of TV and radio, that's what they've been preached. Like, they've been brainwashed. So you can't expect, and above that, they are too busy.

So that goes back to, like, do we really have the economic opportunity as we think we do in this country? That's another question, right? Because, like, compared to who? because the most important thing we need to ask in life is compared to what and compared to who. Because you can say, I'm smarter than Elizabeth Lane, okay, great, good comparison. But if you say I'm smart, like, compared to who? To Einstein or to me, to someone else? Like, maybe you're dumb compared to Einstein, right?

So that's what I'm saying. Like, Americans think that they still got the best in this country of the world. But that's not true. It's no longer true. In what ways? Is that not true? In many ways, there are countries that are much more developed than us. There are countries that are...

More developed? Yeah. Like, are you talking about, like, architecture and infrastructure? In any way, like, excuse me, like, take the U.S. and United Arab Empire and Dubai. Right. Like, what are you talking about when you're infrastructure? Like, have you been outside in New York? Like, you would get a heart attack.

And New York is supposed to be the sky square. and all the, you know, because certainly I don't have that in Utah. So, yeah, like more developed in what way? So is your health care system in top 20? No. Okay, then education? What about that? No.

I can argue that even, like, I travel a lot, okay? I travel all the time. So travel is needed to understand what's really going on in other countries as well. I could argue that there are countries that even with, like, day-to-day lives are happier, more well-taking care of, whether it gets to your income, you know, maternity, fraternity leave or whatever. So then the question becomes, are we, like, why are we still stating that we are the best? Like, is that like an illusion of some sorts? Like, is that a, like, I want to be the best so I'm like going to talk about it and it's going to

happen? Or like, what is that? I think it's an overall average because the things you say right there, like I said, we have a lot of problems right now. And I think if people rest on those laurels, that's why it's good for you to point that out, our education system, our healthcare system, our infrastructure. It's not the only one. These are all absolutely. These are all true. When you take the average of everything, even if the world is kind of a piece of shit right now, overall, I think people could very well make the argument that America is still the best shit on top of the pile of shit. And obviously, that's a very pessimistic, cynical way of putting it, But you understand what I'm saying right there.

It's like a friend, I'll use an example of a friend of mine. Raj Raj Rajaratna, he was an immigrant. He's from Sri Lanka. Came to this country. Compared to Sri Lanka, yes, I would agree. Well, yeah, yeah. But like, meaning he came here when he was young. Yeah, yeah.

Highly educated, became one of the five greatest investors in the world. Long story short, was given the longest insider trading penalty in American history at the time in 2011 in what I believe, now was a trial where the deck was completely stacked against him, which is not a popular take to have. Like, oh, this billionaire was actually innocent. I actually believe he was. And what's amazing is once you learn every single thing that the government did to him and what happened to him, you know, he then ended up spending seven and a half years in prison before getting a home release. And you would think, the guy still got billions of dollars, right? You would

think he would throw his middle fingers up to the sky and be like, fuck you, fuck the system. all this stuff and i'll never forget being in a meeting with him about three years ago almost exactly where he was talking about the justice system and things he wanted to improve in it and putting his money where his mouth is by the way which i think is cool but very unexpectedly he goes like he was starting to get like a little emotional and he goes you know what this is the best country in the world i'm so lucky to live here i was so lucky to come here i'm so lucky for my family to be here there are things happening in the country that make me sad that we as a people need to come together and fix but there is a reason people don't go in droves to China or Russia all the time

or some of these other countries where they don't have some of the base freedoms that we do and so if I can fix some of those problems to make sure we still have that 20 years from now then I will put my money where my mouth is and do that and that always stuck with me because this is a man who's traveled the entire world he's been to every country he used to own half the sri lank and stock exchange he knows every continent like the back of his hand he spent two months in africa just for the fuck of it and like when i hear someone like that having gone through the bullshit that he went through say that that's where i get the averages and i go okay health care fucked education we got some serious issues there

but like when you look at it overall we're still better but we should not rest on that laurels and assume that will be the case 10 years from now. And to your point, I think a lot of Americans, a lot of us, I've probably been guilty of it too in the past, sit there a little complacent like, oh, we'll be fine, you know. It'll all work out. And then you don't look at history and see that every quote unquote empire has fallen. Exactly. I agree with that.

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Upgrade your sleep with Ghostbed, the makers of the coolest beds in the world. And again, like, you know, I've heard, like I said, I've traveled a lot too. And I think where it gets to why he thinks that way versus why a German who's like average worker, thinks that no German is better, right? I would argue right now, hell no. But like I'm talking about like 10, 15 years ago, right? Like, again, I think the U.S. gives. you the opportunity to be that 1% if you wanted to. Well, not if you wanted to, but you have

the capability if you're a little bit sociopathic, if you're like, you know, if you got all the right things, like a cocktail, then you can probably get there. Other countries cannot give you that. And I would argue the reason they can't give you that are partially our fault, too, in the U.S. Well, how do you mean? I mean, we overthrow and, you know, the democratically elected leaders. We cause chaos in the world. Like, we are the number one. terrorists of the world, no doubt about that. And the reason these countries are authoritarian is because they have to be. Because otherwise, they're going to go in a coup or a baton or something like that, you know, up there. I'm not going to talk about what happened to certain people, but like,

you know, like Gaddafi or others, right? And they know. And that's something that no one talks about. Like, I'll give you a quick example of country of Georgia. Country in Georgia is the most peaceful. And I can talk about it because I'm from, like I said, I was born in Georgia. I know what it's about. Look at its history and tell me if they ever try to conquer anyone, really. Ever, oh, ever tried to conquer somebody? Yeah, conquer somebody. No, they are like, they've been conquered a gazillion times.

They won the wars, like, you know, they lost the wars. I mean, these people have been through everything, really. It's fascinating, like how they are still alive, how they manage to, like, have the gene they had, like, this coding, right? like without mixing it with that. Like, it's incredible. But here's what happened just recently. So we are using Ukraine as a proxy, right? Like we are fighting through Ukraine this war with Russia so that we can weekend Russia.

And the usual warmonger shit that I'm so over with like all we're and tired. Then we have the CIA working really hard to overthrow Georgian government who says, I'm not going to get into war. It's not my war. Leave me alone. they threatened the Premier Minister of Georgia and this is like EU and the U.S. and Brits, right? You know, remember what happened to Fito?

Fito got shot. Like, stay in line, bro, or you will be dead. This is on record that they're done this. Yeah, he came out and says, they threatened to kill me. They told me, remember what happened to Fizzo? This is a country focused on Georgia. Like, this government is focused on Georgia. They're like, we want to be great.

We want to do all these good things. things, like, you know, reforming education, all of that. What do you want, bro? Like, what do you want to cause a mess there? See, that's what we do. That's what we did in Latin America. Like what? I killed Hose Ruled off or the Roldos or something. Like, you know, we go in. We overthrow people. Like, what happened to Mossadegh in Iran? Why kill a democratically elected leader that only wants to do good shit for his country? What's the deal? Well, to find good shit for his country. Well, he wanted to nationalize stuff that meant that it would be good for the country like oil and other things. And we didn't want it. To nationalize it? Yeah. I mean that's... So here's

what we do. Let me explain something. Yeah, that would be fascist by definition. So when CIA goes into the countries, they do something called like they want to do privatization of the assets, right? And they usually put it in the hands of very few people in the country. And the people that they can control, they did the same thing with Saakashvili in Georgia, like 2003 Rose Revolution. So they own everything, right? Well, how is that good for the country? When it, you know, your biggest assets don't belong to people. How is that good for the country?

I see what you're saying. Yeah. But the opposite doesn't necessarily, that's not necessarily good either. Like I don't, so let me say, hold two thoughts at the same time. Imagine that. Right. I think the current Iranian regime is fucking insane and a disaster. Who brought them on?

I also think we shouldn't be in any way going out of our way to start a war and overthrow their government, which is just playing right into the hands of the propaganda that wouldn't then be propaganda because it'd be exactly what it looks like that would make people say, well, maybe this isn't so bad. if you really believe that something is wrong, and I do, like the Iranian people don't like their government, and I agree with them on that, they're going to have to overthrow it themselves or do it themselves. Couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more. That's exactly what I'm trying to say here. But we don't allow that, though. Here's the thing. We don't even overthrow per se the dictatorial governments. Somehow the record is sometimes we do, but if you look at the record of the over those that we know about. There are probably plenty we don't know about, but the ones that we know about. I mean, most of them are people who just said, I'm not going to be your puppet. I'm going to do

something for my country. You might want to read a book called, um, economic. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So like, but, but it's true, though. He's absolutely right. And how do you think that goes down in international politics? And here's what people don't understand. Everything you do in other countries backfires and comes back to you. Like, international policies are very much like a boomerang to our domestic policies, right? I'll explain something. So foreign countries, how do you think they lobby us into action? Like, tell me your opinion and then we can take it from there. Like, why do you think that other countries do have an effect on our Congress or Senate? I would imagine if I'm being very broad with my answer where it's economically feasible for us to continue our, you know, ability to wield power economically and therefore just in general around the world, then, you know, we'll look at it even if it's actually not going to help with that.

So you're saying that like foreign countries lobby you to, like help me understand, foreign countries lobby you to like keep, keep the power of. like that they lobby you in a way that makes you think oh you have power over us and we'll do whatever you want is no no no no no because i there's a lot of different countries that could be used as an example for this in different contexts what i'm trying is i want to be clear so the people i'm not convoluting people out here i'm saying that we our bureaucracy is so high on its own supply right that when another country yeah which is fucking every country around the world at some point asking for a favor. Couldn't agree more.

Mine is probably like China and Russia. But like when another country comes to us asking for a favor, we look at it like fresh meat. Like, ooh, what can we get out of that? And how can we actually like advance our economic interests around the world, even if that's not how it's going to end up going down? That's what I mean. Right.

I agree. So I can tell you one example. For example, just recently again, like I'm only using Georgia as an example because I know what's going on. it's like one of my forte, like my topics. I can use Russia. I can use Israel if you want. But Israel and Palestine was never my thing as a journalist,

so I usually stay away, even though I have pretty strong opinions about that too. But recently, country of Georgia put up this, like news article, and then they had like a, I think, short segment in the Imedi TV, I think, where they were saying that opposition party, Saka Shrily, which was a puppet for the CIA, Saakashu's national party, we can talk about that too. Like, that guy is incredibly interesting. Like, the guy who was involved in both Georgian Revolution, and then I would argue that he

was a huge figure to what happened to Ukraine, like a big player in that too. Now he's in prison, by the way, for the crimes he did with the CIA or without them. I don't care. But anyway, so they put up an article how this party transatlantic. money to a firm in the U.S. that lobbies Joe Wilson to do whatever they want. So put up, if you can, go to my X account and there's an article about it. So and then in return... Your X account is wild.

I'll read through it. I need to get a shower afterwards. Oh, fuck. So, like, I can tell you, I put this article off. I was like, they are so going to come after me after this. I don't care. So go to articles or just go down and it's called... When did you post it?

It's way down, down, down, down. Like September? Yeah, I think so. What was the article about? I think it's called an agent or like it was about Joe Wilson and taking the money from this firm. Hold on. It's going to be there.

They're for an agent. Yeah, open that. So in here, I explain. Yeah, in here I explain how the whole thing went down, what was the firm that got the money, and then lobby it's Joe Wilson to be like, pretty much like say lies like, Georgian government stopped building Trump tower in between me. What? Never happened.

Like, and the guy supports the people protesting in the streets against government. So people who want to overthrow the government, he supports them and what they do. which is like they break, I mean, they broke everything in the city. They went in and tried to like ambush, if I correctly recall, they tried to break into presidential residence. And this is Joe Wilson, the same dude who said to January 6 people, how dare you? Oh, really, Joey, because if it's against you that American people are coming forward,

then you don't get to protest and you don't get to break in. But if it's Georgia, yeah, dude, like, go, overthrow the government. Like, this is where they fail American people. These double standards that, yes, we fuel revolutions, yes, we overthrow other leaders. And then it backfires on us. And that's the tragedy of this country. We just don't get it.

And I think the only president that actually got it was President Kennedy. And this is why he said, no, like, it's just not going to happen this way anymore. Like, we're not going to be, you know, giving power to Israel. we're not going to be like overthrowing people overseas. We're just not going to do this shit anymore and they killed them. As simple as that. I do think it's very well established on record that basically everyone, ironically, with the exception of, oh my God, what the fuck was his name?

The guy took over after Stalin. Oh, Krushchev. Yeah. Khrushchev. Pretty much everyone in the world, including in our own government, hated John F. Kennedy. And I do agree with you on many fronts that, you know, John if Kennedy was a normal human, he had his own flaws as a human, but when it came to being a leader and an ideologue, he had a lot of amazing ideas that today would be very hard to put him in a political box with that, which I really like about him. Like he was very, there's no doubt about it that he was so like pro American standards, ironically, you know, a sion of like a family that probably got their well thrill, gotten gains and everything. but like he found the way to kind of break away into his own lane

and talk about crazy things like denuclearizing the world, you know? Or maybe we shouldn't just overthrow governments because we can. Right. Like these are just insane ideas, you know? Absolutely. And he was against the war. He was like, he talked, I think the first president, I don't know, we have to check. First and the only president who ever mentioned secret societies.

and how there is no place for secret societies in a free country and free world. Yeah. Like, the only president. Interesting. Yeah, and I think Khrushchev called him the best president the U.S. ever had or something like that. That's not helping his case. But, yeah, I understand that because he was crazy. He did, I'm saying, like, from a propaganda perspective, doesn't help his case.

But, you know, Khrushov and him had that famous red line that they actually talked on. And they actually had some sort of, I wouldn't call it a, I mean, I wouldn't call it a friendship, but they had an understanding with each other where their relationship, even though their politics were obviously different, they didn't have a hatred for each other, which, you know, that, sometimes I wonder how much that contributed to us not blown up the fucking world. I agree. And we are there right now. And unfortunately, you know, I don't know. Like, see, this is, this is very interesting. Okay, so have you ever asked, why are you, like, so hostile with Russians? Like, why? Like, you can see it as an American thing, okay, what's up with that?

Like, why can we be friends with Russians? Because they are very similar to us, white Christians. They want freedom. They understand freedom. They are very intelligent, like, when it gets to, you know, development, all of that. Like, I mean, they were the ones who went to space. We faked the moon landing and all. We did.

We did. You think we did? What if I told you a person who's very credible? Very credible? I can't name the person, but I can tell you behind the scenes, told me that we faked the moon landing, who was, like, involved in the process. The anonymous sources thing? I can't go with that.

Yeah, you can't. Unfortunately, I would agree with you. Listen, listen, I'm open-minded. I just sometimes it does feel like. we throw the baby out with the bathwater and because we see some things as evil in our government righteously so we then have to say you know what all of it's a lie there's not one thing we did and for me with the moon landing my biggest argument against against people saying we never did it i'm not saying we definitely did but every country in the world including our closest

allies right in many cases would have had a reason to try to disprove that we did that because it was such an achievement on the world stage that they would have been like we want to do it first and nobody did I would argue that they wouldn't give a fuck why why wouldn't they give a fuck going to the moon for yeah because here's the thing like soviets when they went in space like yeah that was great like that was really really great so but Why would achievement like that be a threat to them in any way, really? I mean, they can come back and say, show what?

Good job. You landed on the moon. We went up in space the first, the first dog, first human. Like, it's a big deal walking on another object that is not the earth. It is a big deal. It's a big deal. But I just don't see how it's a threat to them. Like, I just don't see it.

To me, it would be great. It's a great piece of propaganda. It's an amazing piece of propaganda. It would be. I don't know. I guess I can't see it. I might be very subjective on that because I wouldn't be able to like I would be, okay, another great achievement for human kind. Like this is how I would look at it. That's how I would look at it too, but you understand that's not how the masses that get fed look at it. Yes, yes. It could be. It could be. It's just, yeah, it's very hard to believe what they're showing as far as like moon landing go. And then you listen to people who have dissected the case and it's like, Like, I don't know, but then I do trust the person that I talk to, so I don't know. Like, again, I don't know.

But I think that this person is correct. So I don't know. Well, that's the thing about that I always try to check myself with because my brain, not just the moon landing, but with anything, my brain can go to, it's a lie about something immediately on pretty much everything. Because sometimes I wonder if COVID was, obviously there were aspects of it that were a social experiment. But if part of the social experiment was, ooh, let's break people. Let's break them one way or the other. Either they defend everything and say it's all real or they say nothing's real at all. You go from fucking Rachel Maddow to Candace Owens and there's no in between.

No in between. And so conspiracies are very real. There are many that have been proven. We have one in modern history right now that is the clearest as day thing I've ever seen in my life in Epstein. I just had a guy here who tracked all the phones to the fucking island. I mean, it's real. It's real. But then we have other ones that people will claim and it's not real.

And what it does is it create, in my opinion, is it creates noise. So that if you believe these 10 things, one of them is 100% real and it's bad. The people that are in charge of that thing can go, oh, you're going to. listen to them look at the other nine things they believe and i try to be so careful with that and what i like about my show like in doing this is that i can have on given issues a perspective of you here and then i can have my friend david satter here and you guys have some very different opinions you both have something in common you've both been on the ground right over there and seen this stuff and understand what it is and you just have wildly different perspectives my job

isn't to be like david you're a hundred percent right or elizabeth you're a hundred percent right My job is to push back on some things, let you talk on a lot of other stuff, and let everyone else out there kind of decide for themselves and land there. And I would hope that, like, the nuance gets infected where they go, you know, I don't agree with David on that. He made a terrible case. You know what? Elizabeth, her case on this was good. Her case on that was not good. Maybe, you know what I mean?

And that's exactly what every podcaster, journalist, talk show host should do. Like, let people decide if the case was made here. You know, I think that's the right way to do it. And I agree with you on a conspiracy theory stuff. Like, it's crazy. I mean, the flat earth and these, like, stupid stuff. But I think that's exactly why it's there. I think you're right.

You said something that I always say. Like, when I start investigating the case, I look at the case and I'm like, okay, what's noise and what's a real thing here, right? Like, that noise allows people to get, like, completely, I guess they become, you know, know, how do I say this? Not lost, kind of, but almost like delusional. You know what I mean? And that's exactly what certain forces I would say would want. Because if you're delusional, you're not, you know, cohesive. You can't make right decisions. You are absolutely all over the place. And, you know, people are people, there are still people who are on the opposite side of

things too. Like, for example, there are people who believe that Kennedy was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald, right? to me. They are a special case. They should be, you know, they should be a study case somewhere. Like, it's crazy. But, but yeah. Bullets are magic. I don't know if you knew that. They are magic. Yeah. We've proven that with everything. We've proven that with Kennedy. We've proven that with Charlie Kirk. We've proven that with everybody, right? Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, it just bothers me, like, how much misinformation there is, like, when it gets to the whole, like, Russia-Ukraine war and whole uh you know in the soviet union itself though like that's another really like tough case well let's unpack that what what what specifically yeah yeah what do what do you think is like

the the main calling cards of like we're wrong about this there every every the whole thing the whole thing so they were fascist not communist even no no no no no i mean obviously they were communist yeah of course i mean yes of course like i'm talking about um they were a communist they were communist they were authoritarian okay but i feel like most americans see it as like communism is like one thing right i'm sure you see it too if i said like what was communists like explain to me what was communist communism in in soviet union explain soviet union is an american to me for like you want me to do yeah yeah okay so we already established it was where the government took control yeah of all privatized business what government what government what government the people in charge of the communist

government who the revolutionaries okay well well they changed multiple times right so well how many leaders of communism party and in general a soviet union do you know how many leaders let's so it's so it started it started with the original revolutionaries you had lenin yet trotsky yes and then you went to Stalin Stalin started the programs and the hello to more as And then you had him till 53. Khrushchev comes in in 53. After Khrushchev, who the fuck was in there? So you know more than most, okay?

Yeah. So, all right, let's unpack that. Okay, great. So let's unpack that. Who was Trotsky? Where did it come from? Let me break the Soviet myth for you real quick. The Soviet myth.

Yeah. All right, break it. So who was Trotsky? Where was he living before he became this amazing revolution? who somehow took down the Tsar? No? No, he ended up in Mexico. Yes, he got shut. He got killed. So who was, where was Trotsky? You want to know where he was? He wasn't in Georgia, was he? He was here in New York. Oh, he's in New York. Yes, he was here in New York. Isn't that shocking? You know what else? You know what? Really? You know what else he was doing in New York?

So Trotsky was in New York and he was somehow able to have a chauffeur, like a private driver. refrigerator that was a luxury back in the day and all this like very well off like you know style items for a person that wrote for a miniscual weird newspaper once in a while that no one read like doesn't it strike you all so you're saying he's a communist who lived in nice opulence never heard of that before yeah well trotsky actually it's well documented read the book bolshevik Wall Street and Bolshevik Revolution by Anthony Sutton and another one that did a really good documentation. His name escapes me now, but he's a Swiss historian. So they pretty much track where these communists came from and overthrewed Tsar. And it was bought, paid, and funded by

the banks in the West. So isn't that funny? Why would they do that? Exactly. See, that's the question. I have my theories, but I don't know. What would be your theory? So let's start with that. So this is not based in fact. This is Elizabeth's theory. So let's start with facts first, and then we can move to the theory, right? So Bolshevik Revolution and the Wall Street is a great book to start reading.

And then I will remember the Swiss historian's name too. So this track, Strutsky's, I mean, it's a real fact that Strotsky was living in New York. And he was getting a salary, and he had a chauffeur and a driver, and he had a refrigerator and all of these items, and the question becomes where this guy had the money for all this stuff. Then he goes to conduct a revolution in Russia, and he goes through Canada. He gets caught in Nova Scotia. Again, a fact. Okay, we have documentation for it. He gets caught in Nova Scotia with a ton of money. And they're like, where are you going? And then all of a sudden, Canadian authorities get a go-ahead so that he can pass and they just let him go. So he ends up with Lenin, who was

Lenin and where was he living? Do you remember? Because he was not... In 1917? Yeah, before he became revolutionary, before he ever entered Russia. Where was he? Because he was not living in Russia. He was in Switzerland, right? So, If I corgi, he's a

Sweden and Switzerland. So they sent Lenin and Trotsky the same time to Russia with a ton of money. Why? Who are these people? Why do they have so much money? Like, they are nobody's when you look at their background, right? And then they start investing this money in communism and Bolshevism, right?

So they gather like this, this like-minded people. This is where later on Stalin joins them. Like, he's a nobody in the beginning. And that's another thing. Like most people don't even know who Stalin was. And these historians in the West that come out and blubber a bunch of shit. And I'm like, what ground do you have? What kind of shit do they blabber?

Like a lot of shit about Stalin that there is not even remotely. right like what i mean we'll do you want me to give you a breakdown of so for example yeah give me a breakdown because there's there's there's well a step like i have no doubt where what was telling let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me start with this i have no doubt that at no point in history when victors have emerged right will you ever see something where the story told is a hundred percent correct doesn't exist Like I studied, I study the American Revolution like the back of my hand. I'm very glad it happened.

I'm very glad they did it. These guys were amazing. There's still 10% of things that sometimes do get written down just not really talked about. That it's like, that was a little fucked up. But like that's war. Exactly. So with Stalin, I have no doubt that there could be pieces where they're like, oh, you know, Stalin made it rain in fucking Africa one day.

And like he didn't actually do that. Yeah. But we are talking about a guy who is documented. I remember talking about this with the vial eye. When I had him in here, he's got a great YouTube channel. He studies this inside out. We're talking about a guy who is documented to have murdered millions and millions of people. So I don't see any nuance with like, oh, well, we're stolen misunderstood.

No, he was a midget who was just very upset about his height. No. Did you listen to what I said? What did I say? You said that there's been a lot of lies and propaganda about him. Yes, yes. Which is true. Right.

So, and what else? did I say? Do you know where Trotsky and Lenin lived? You said, I don't know. Where? I told you where. This is a fact. You can look it up. Why don't you look it up where he lived? Like, it is a fact. So this is where like when you talk about noise comes in. Was Stalin a dictator? Did he kill people? Yeah, of course he did. But was he everything that West told you he was? Absolutely not. In what ways? Many ways. So let's start from here. Do you remember the time when Stalin was Uncle Joe, really? He was not a murderous dictator then when we were helping him.

Oh, okay, well, okay, so what changed? The war ended. I see, war ended, and then we wanted all these territories that Soviets got, and we wanted to overthrow and dispental Russia, and all of a sudden he became a bad guy, right? Right. Right. To be fair, though, that was all propaganda. They never liked him behind the scenes.

FDR fucking hated him. So, of course, they did because they all thought he was a problem. he was absolutely against the globalist elites, and that's the story that no one tells you. So you don't have good guy and bad guy here. You have bad guys, okay? I understand that, Elizabeth, but this is where I got to push back on this. I'm not put aside like Western leaders being all good. They're not.

We'll come back to that. But like, if Jeffrey Dahmer were against the global elites, I'm not going to sit here and say, you know, Jeffrey was misunderstood. No, that's not what I'm saying. murdering millions of people. Okay, that's not what I'm saying. You're a skumback. Yeah. I don't know what to tell you. So again, like millions of people, exactly how many millions. Like millions of people, I, I, you may have heard of the sex cult nexium and the famous actress who went to prison for her involvement, Alison Mack. But she's never told her

side of the story until now. People assume that I'm like this pervert. My name is Natalie Robamed. And in my new podcast, I talked to Allison to try to understand how she went from TV actor to cult member. How do you feel about having been involved? in bringing sexual trauma to other people. I don't even know how to answer that question. Allison After Nexium

from CBC's Uncover is available now on Spotify. That's annoying. What? You're a muffler. You don't hear it? Oh, I don't even notice it. I usually drown it out with the radio.

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First of all, the numbers are not there to support it. That's one. The second, you have to understand the guy to talk about him. Like, for example, if you want to talk about Jeffrey Dahmer, I personally can't talk about Jeffrey Dahmer. I know who he was, like, in history, but I don't know. I don't understand the guy. I can't talk about him because I don't, I have not reviewed his case.

He was a bad guy. Great. So was Stalin. No one argues that he was a bad guy. But the question is when you have bad and the worst for humanity, like, what is your choice exactly? So let's talk about Stalin, shall we? What exactly do you know about it?

Stalin. What exactly do you know? I mean, I've already laid out some of it. Okay, so where was he born? Georgia. Where? I don't know in Georgia. Okay. How long he stayed there? What was his profession? Like, do you know anything about the guy? Like, I don't remember. I have studied this in the past off the top of my head like we're being quizzed in school. I don't remember what he did when he was growing up. Exactly. So that's where I have problem. Like no one really does. So I'm like, when I talk to people, they get so upset. Because they don't have the information. And I'm like, stop getting. Let's give it.

Let's give it. So Stalin grew up, by the way, he was not Russian in any shape and form. He was not even Slav. He was Georgia. He was Georgian. Yeah. So he was born in Gorey and he wanted to be a priest. So he started to become a priest in a seminary.

So his mother was super religious and she believed in like God and she was like, you know, crazy religious. She's still buried, by the way, in a pantheon, which is like only for Holy people. So in Georgia, and this is the background that people do not know about Stalin. So he's in Georgia till they like the first marriage and he has a first kid in Georgia and then the wife dies because she was ill and after the pregnancy, it kind of got worse and she ended up dying. And this is where Stalin decides, you know what, there must be no God because he was completely and utterly in love with this woman. And when this tragedy happens, he goes like, Like, half this world.

Like, there's nothing to it. Like, you know, I got to go and find something else for myself because all these dreams and stuff that he had to become a priest, he wanted to become a priest. He was a poet, by the way. He has a whole book of poetry and all that shit written. And in that poetry, it's so funny, you read, like, the stuff like, my little country that is not free or oppressed because of Russia

or something like that. this is the guy who wrote this shit and then becomes the Russian, call it an emperor or dictator, whatever you want to call it, right? So all of this background is completely in trash. No one talks about it in the West. It's extremely important because it determines why he did things he did later on. Don't you think? Like everybody's my childhood determines why I'm sitting here, right? I think it's very important. Very important. Just like Hitler getting kicked out of art school. Right. Exactly. Fuck those people. Exactly. Should let a man. We would have saved ourselves. Exactly. So then something very interesting happens. Like this is what I like when we talk about

communists, I always ask people which communists, what era? It was all very different. And that's where they're like kind of something does like, you know, they get so confused about it. What do you mean like communists? Okay, which ones? Because they were all different. Communism and Russia was all different according to who was in charge of them. Right. So Lenin and Trump, Trotsky. Both of them were traders. They were bought and paid by globalists. That's why Russians hate Trotsky. By the way, his last name was not Trotsky. He was Braunstein. He was a Jewish descent. He bought the last name Trotsky to assimilate with the Slavic names and Poland and Russia and all that. In reality, it was Jewish. So was Lenin. So both of them come in. They have

Western money to conduct the revolution. They killed the Tsar. Do you know which? Tsar they killed. Nicholas? Nicholas the second. Yes. So... Anastasia might live. No. She didn't. She didn't. Unfortunately. Do you know how they did it? Like it was so heartbreaking. Oh, they killed them in a basement. They fucking moat them down. Yeah, it was so heartbreaking. And this is that... And they were related to the British royal family. Yes. Yes. See, like, it's very rare that someone knows that. Yeah, like they were cousins and they completely abandoned the king. They abandoned them. Yeah, I think they were in on it. That's why. So there was no reason to decline.

him and not accept the Russian royal family in England for, you know, safe, safe house. Like, the reason they declined him is because Nicola started saying shit, like, we need to, you know, we need disarmament. We need world peace. That's him. Like, he believed in Renaissance and all that stuff. And you have this ginormous country like Russia with all these resources, do have a leader that's pro peace and proper prosperity and pro, you know, Renaissance and all that. And he's like, are you crazy? And they killed the guy. and brought the Bolshevik revolution. And how we know, again, that it was funded by the Western elites

because there was a Red Cross mission going on, which again, you can pull up a Red Cross mission if you find it. Saturn details this in his book. Who was in this Red Cross mission? Why did it happen? Wait, can you explain the Red Cross mission? Right, yeah. So they said they needed... So people have to understand that Bolsheviks were not that powerful force in the beginning, okay? No one cared for them.

like they tried like they multiple times to conduct a revolution they failed they could not conduct a revolution and turns out they needed more money so then red cross mission happens in you know in russia um and the red cross was like when they or like when they suggested a mission red cross was like we don't need a mission in russia like why are we doing this again and if you look at who participated in that red cross mission like it's all either lawyers like financiers, bankers, and what they were trying to do is use Red Cross mission to funnel shitloads of money for the Bolsheviks so they could finish the revolution. That's what it was about. None of this part surprises me. Yeah, so that's what I'm saying. Like, they brought communism

on Russia and then they lost the control. Exact same scenario like we always do. So, you know, when they lost the control, when Stalin came in power. So Lenin and Trotsky, Trotsky, till today is considered as a traitor in Russia. Ask yourself, why? Why is he a trader? Why not other? Like, why not Stalin? Why not others? Why is Trotsky a traitor? Because he worked for the globalist. That's why. He came from New York, killed their Tsar, gave a bunch of gold, by the way. What did communists do? Remember all this Russian gold that was shipped to Europe? Like, why? What, they didn't want money? They did, like, it's stupid, right? So what happened is, Lenny's last words are

anybody but Stalin why see that's where history goes like completely haywire right so anybody but Stein why why because he wasn't in on their scheme exactly he was a random

dude from Georgia who had his own devils in the head and he was not part of this one world order shit and he looked at it and I think I know exactly like I studied Stalin really well and I had all the write documents for it because I'm from Georgia. I can read Russian, I can read Georgia, and you know what I mean?

So, like, I think I know exactly when Stalin learned that this communism, like, he really believed in it, right? He himself. And you can actually determine the time period when he learns what this shit is about. And he realizes that, wait a second, Trotsky and Lenin, they are bought. Like, they are literally these puppets of the globalists, and this might, like, whatever is going on is might not be real. So this is where he actively starts to kind of take the power, right? And he's like becoming more and more important figure. He does really good. He was a very

good negotiator. So every time like there was like some hard stuff to negotiate, they would send him. This is how he advanced in the ranks. Like who was he? Some Georgian from Gorey? Like are you kidding me? Like all of a sudden he became a very important figure. And when he learned that this whole communism was not exactly what he thought, because again, this why it's important to know a person's childhood. Entire poetry of his is about fairness, about like my country being oppressed. So all of a sudden, communism, what do they say? Everyone's what? Equal, even though that's not true, right? Right. But that was the message. So this young guy who lives because he was upset because his first wife died and leaves the kid with his very religious, by the way, mom to raise, his name was

Jacob, Jacob, actually, not Jacob, but Jacob. And he moves to Russia, and all of these stuff that he always dreamed of, all of a sudden is presented to him as communism. Like, communists can get you all this stuff, right? No royalty, no oppression, no nothing. And he ends up joining the Communist Party, but he ends up joining it because he believes in it. And then he learns that, hold on for a second, much bigger powers are at play here. And in my opinion, and this is my personal opinion, there's no way to prove it, is that

he was, it was not okay with this one world thing that was going on, right? Like he was like very patriotic, which he was. So I call Stalin's patriotism as a toxic patriotism. Like, because there is such a thing as toxic patriotism. Right? When you allow everything and everything is acceptable for your country to thrive. Like, not everything is acceptable, right? So when you kind of cross every red line to protect your country, that was Stalin. And he was patriotic at first to Georgia

and then to Russia, right? As like Soviet states, Soviet Republic. So when he learned that, what did Stalin do exactly? Like, when he came in power, what did he do? He started killing who? Imprisoning and then killing who? The same Bolsheviks,

conducted the revolution why why ask yourself because they we in the west yeah to your point look at communism as one thing exactly which is the equivalent of being in the east and looking at trump and obama as the same exact person makes no sense thank you they're just a part of the same system okay exactly and if i if i've i've had so many people come up to me off camera in the past six months it's making me like terrified just taking history right and saying oh there's one thing wrong for therefore dump the whole thing out no no that it's like it is actually bothering me and i thought that's where you were going with him i will i will i will agree with you so i apologize for jumping no no you're good i will i will agree with you that the way that things are what's the

word I'm looking for. Homogenized all together is completely wrong. A lot of it is just propaganda and make it simple for people to digest. There are a lot of nuances here. So the way you just laid out that case is actually very fair in that it's not saying like, hey, these guys aren't evil and these guys aren't evil. No, they all suck. But like here's how it happened. Exactly. I understand that. Exactly. So that's what like is lost on history. And then what contributed to what you said that every American's, like, head is filled with, like, Communists is just one thing and so on, is the propaganda that followed

of the globalist network against Stalin and all that because now, like, two bad guys are fighting for the power, right? So he's a toxic patriot who's, like, in his head, well, you know, what is this globalist shit going on here, right? Like, am I going to get anything out of this? Like, is Russia going to get anything? No.

what Russia was supposed to do is got dismantled into parts, right? Like, how would you play Russia in this? Like, one world order? Like, where Russia fits? Nowhere. Because it's super complex geopolitically. It has Muslims. It has Christians.

It has multiple diversities, like, when it gets to genome and cultures and how they understand themselves. This is why Chechnya is a bomb in Russia, right? And we're not going to go into it because that's a whole other episode. Chechnya's a what? Bomb. It's a bomb? Bomb, ready to explode.

Not anymore because Putin knew how to deal with it, but it was a bomb. And it did explode, right? Like, you know, when Chechen war, the whole thing happened. Because it's a Muslim country inside Russia, with all these Christians and above the different cultures in it, right? So Putin dealt with it brilliantly. But again, it's still a threat, right? it's still very different from everything. It's almost like having, not to divert from subject real quick,

but why are we so afraid of immigration? It's the same principle. Now you have like, you know, Muslims in UK praying in entire streets and the UK people are coming out and saying like, whoa, what just happened here? What is going on? Well, guess what? That is a constant reality for Russians when it gets to Chechens, right? And Russia figured out how to make friends.

between Christians and Muslims in a way that both Chechen soldiers right now and Russian soldiers are fighting for Russia. They are not fighting for Christianity or Muslim or whatever. They are fighting for their land, which is Russia. And they are equally putting everything they've got into it, right? And they somehow figured this out that these like differences are no longer quite that distinct anymore. That was again Putin. But before that, Chechnya was a huge problem. And so was many other places, many other different nation that is, including Georgia, by the way. We were part of Russia as well. So you're dealing with this complex Soviet Union entity. And how is it going to fit in your one world order? And Stalin could see that, that not only it's not going to

fit, they can out me dismantle Russia, like what they did with Ukraine. By the way, Trotsky was the guy who was saying, you know what? Ukrainians have the right for self-determination. like this was way before like anything right that's where this talk started and then all of a sudden like there was there there was propaganda against georgians too like hey you're you're this ancient country why are you okay with with Russians like being under Russians you should have the ambitions to get out right what does that mean you're dismantling Russia from the inside right Stalin could see that and he was like no bro this is not going to work because that's going to result in me getting outstead as well. And all of this that I'm building here. So this is, I think,

where the whole thing went down, like when the Lenins and Stalin's, like, you know, clash started and Stalin didn't want Lenin didn't want Stalin to take over. He did it anyway. And then what did he do, Julian, do you remember? Like, there's a word in Georgian and Russian history. We call it intelligentsia. He started killing who? The elites. Why? Because he thought they were in on it. Thank you. That was it. So, yeah, the entire, like, history is told in such, like, ugly way when there's, like, actual facts that you can, you know, look at and tell it in a right way. Now, next thing about Stalin is Stalin's secondhand was Beria.

That was actually Georgian, too. That was the Beria gets no limelight whatsoever, even though he was the true psychopaths of the regime. Okay. Beria was a psychopaths. Like, he was, I think Stalin's motivation was toxic patriotism. He was right in many, many things that he did. He was wrong in many things, but Beria was a complete psychopath. So, and again, like, you know, take the war.

So World War II happens, and that's another weird thing that I could never understand. So who really won that war? You're educated enough to know this. like I can see in our conversation that you know the fact. Meaning who was most responsible for the war coming to an end? Russia through the most bodies at it. There's no doubt about that. I think the way I've always looked at it is Russia through the bodies,

through the military, Britain through the intelligence, and the United States through the push coming into it. I think there was also. Would it be fair to say that the biggest sacrifice was made on the Russian part. By mathematical numbers, for sure. Absolutely. But, I mean, again, like, that's everything.

Like, what Russia didn't throw the intelligence part? Or, like, they just left out on that? No, they did. I'm saying who had the most weight of, like, pulling off crazy shit for each of those. That's how I describe it. It doesn't mean all three didn't play a role. United States are a lot of bodies of the problem, too. Actually, not comparable.

Not to Russia. But they, hold on, hold on, hold on. Hold on. Let's not do this. Okay. Russia lost way more people. They lost fucking, I don't even remember the number at Stalingrad alone. It was significant. I'll tell you what the numbers are.

It was civilians. It was the whole bit. I'll tell you what the numbers are. But then to not say, therefore, the United States lost like a million people. No, no, no, not million. It's actually very, very simple. Whatever, whatever it was, let's pull it up. I can tell you, 27 million on Russian far, 200,000 on the U.S. part.

I can break this down for you, right? What were the United States deaths in World War II? You might be right. I just, but that's what I'm saying. When we start getting in the game of like discrediting all of it, $407,000, which I'll call that close enough for the same time. So exactly, 27 million, right? But that's what I'm saying.

Yes, Russia threw significantly more bodies at the problem. But yeah, like we still took losses too. Just like I don't think, I don't think it's acceptable to say like, oh, just. six million Jews died in the Holocaust. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. That's how I look at it. Exactly. I also like, yeah. So again, but we remember how we started this podcast compared to what, right? So would it be fair if we were in the same deal right now and let's say I got everything and you got only 10% and then like a very simple thing. Let's say we invented something and I came

up with 70% of it and you came up with the rest and you came out and said, well, I'm the winner. like how? I'm the inventor. No, I'm the inventor. You're the helper, right? So that's how it is. Now, you have to, this is what, like, people don't understand. It does matter. It matters because when Russians woke up one day, there was no men walking in the street anymore. 27 million they've lost. And what's even worse is that when this war is going on, guess what the elites in the U.S. are doing? Funding Hitler. Yes. And there's a... Again, this is a fact. When the war was going on.

Yes, when the war was going on. We know about before the war. No, but when the war was going on, explain that. Do you want even shocking thing? When the U.S. got into war, they continued funding Hitler. How so? Union Bank, if we had. Joe, be back in a minute.

So Union Bank. Look up Union Bank and Bush, press code Bush. They continued funding Hitler and the FBI had to, actually, the government issued. seize the assets of the bank under enemy of the like yeah yeah so so now think about this for a second so for the for the russians at soviet union who gave up 27 million men and then there is this propaganda somehow equalizing the effort here whether it's brits who by the way churchill says let the let the it's his words let the um i can't quote exact quote but he said something like let the Russians do the groundwork, let them do the war.

Like, okay, so we did do the war, right? Like, meaning Georgia, Russia and all these people, my great-grandfather died in that war. So, like I said, it's not the same. I'm sorry, but it's not the same. If anyone really fought that war was Soviet Union, and they lost everything for it, everything for it. Yes, Britain helped.

Yes, allied forces helped. U.S. elites, not the U.S. people, By the way, U.S. people were the most honorable in this war, not the elites. Elites funded Hitler up until the very end, until the bank had to, sorry, the government had to seize their assets. Like, what is that exactly? What kind of, you know what I mean? Real quick. Yeah. Yes, Prescott Bush was a scumbag. Yes. And yes, there are people like him that existed. Yes, yes, somehow. And somehow the grandson became the president.

Yes, Alan Dulles was a scumbag who spent the entire war in Burns, in Switzerland, very interesting address to have during the war. Yes, there are people like that that were that case. But when we start saying and generalizing, it's the same sin as when people generalize all Russians or something, you know, and throw it in with who's generalizing? Hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me make this point. Okay. When you generalize that. Right. And you there say, you therefore say the entire United States, you are insinuating. But hold on, when you say the elites, all of them, they were funding Hitler, they were funding Hitler the whole time. 99.99% of them in the United States were not. Prescott Bush should have been put on trial for

treason, found guilty by a jury of his peers, and executed. I don't even believe in the death penalty, but I make an exception right there. I agree. That is one guy. No, it's not one guy. Hold on. There were a handful of other people. Yes. But to then make that insinuation that therefore, the entire United States government, which is what that argument gets to, it's like a slippery slope. No, no, no, that's not what I said. No, no, no, no, no. I know that's not what you said, but you have to understand when you say the elites, you said something like the elites, they were all funding Hitler.

No. That's not the case. Okay, so Davidson, Bush, and all these people are the same elites that drive the government and drove the government later. How do you think? You ask the great question. Like, okay, so his son and grandson became very, how exactly? If it's just one guy and all the other ones, you're so innocent, like they are stupid or

something? Like, how exactly did Bush do that? Explain to me, who was Etchison, who was Alan Dallas, who was Avril Harriman, who was a magnate, by the way, you know who else funded Hitler? Evriel Harriman, because he was a partner with Bush. So explain to me if he was just one guy, how did he get away with not going to prison and getting executed? Because I'll tell you something right now. If I was that one guy and I secretly funded Hitler by my country, I would, like, they would slip my throat, like rest of them. Why didn't it? they do that? How we can... Because a powerful guy and a powerful positioning enough connections. Just one guy is the

powerful guy and the rest of them are not? No, no, no. There is a handful of them that do that and then they find their way into powerful positions and their scum. And then we have to argue how many then. And you, like, you can't argue exactly what number there is, Julian, because you don't know. And neither do I. But what I know

is that an entity that gets away while my country is in the war gets away with funding Hitler is a very damn powerful force and is protected by very very many people up on top because otherwise it cannot do what it does and get away and then have a descendant two of them as the president of the united states the descendants is a major major issue yes yes yes i think it's i think it is far more likely that when you have a victory like that right the allied forces in this way and something like Hitler was stopped. Japan was stopped too. You just go through years and years of

everyone losing a lot of people, this insane war, everyone's on edge around the world, and now it's over. What you don't want is nuance in any way. You want to make sure that, and this is the point I'm really trying to make. You want to make sure that 100% of the narrative is on your side, which is exactly what I was saying 15 minutes ago. When you look at any war, there's always, for the victors, if they were in the right overall, there's always that 10% where they did some bad shit. When you win, that gets covered up. I am not saying that's right, by the way.

I think it's completely wrong. The Prescott Bush was allowed to continue being Prescott Bush. I think it's wrong that his fucking sperm. But you just said the plot, right? So how are you overthrowing the head, like the press? of the United States without having a backup plan. So it's not just one guy. You just mentioned the plot.

And Smith-Lie Butler named a ton of them. And the names were like not released. Why? So who made that decision? You're talking about banking industry. Who else made that decision? So no, I'm sorry, it was not just the one guy. Because one guy didn't approach a freaking general

to say, why don't we overthrow Roosevelt tomorrow and make this a Nazi dictatorship? Okay, he's a mental case. He's going to end up in hospital if that's one guy. He's not a one guy. And that's what thinking that way got us here. Now we are under these guys. You know this better than I do because you've been in the US.

You grew up in the US, you know, way longer than I have. So now we are under this one guy, all this like shadowy government. And we can't do shit about it. Because the first time they did something like that, we said, oh, it's just a one guy. don't pay attention to it it was not a one guy and that's my my beat it is it is absolutely in the context of the situation a handful of people like i was saying it's not just one guy it's actually multiple but i'm saying when you generalize it to be like therefore the entire government was supporting no i said hold up you said the elites i'm sorry yes when you say the all the elites were supporting

hitler they weren't there were some that were yeah i didn't say all the elites we can go back but i said i said the elites, which is true, then the government, by the way, I never count government in the elites. So let's make that distinction, okay? So to me, government is absolutely completely different player here. Really, you would think that Donald Trump is part of the elites? I would argue he's not. Like, who's really, like, you can't count the government into the elites. Government is manipulated by the elites. We would agree on that. But would you say that Donald Trump is part of the elites? No, right? That's why we voted for him. We got him in the office to clean the house and so that this would not happen. So let's make that differentiation. We can just say

elites, okay, that's another thing that kills me. Elites, okay, who? I can name my sources and I can tell you the investigations I've done. Davidson's, for example, that never get mentioned, Truby Davidson that literally single-handedly created the Navy Reserve that America didn't have. what the heck was Truby Davidson's job to do so? It was not, but he made his job because he needed a control over military. It's a whole rabbit hole that we can go down to, but we can't just say much to your point. Just the elites, no, the government is a different entity. The bankers are different, and they are, by the way, some of them are not even American.

Okay, let's start from here. So when I say that the elite forces, which is true, multiple, not just one, funded Hitler, again, true. They did. So then, now put yourself for a second in Russian shoes. For a second. You lost 27 million men against this madman. And then you find out, which they know, by the way, that the U.S. elites, which are bankers and the people who then drive the government and all this machine, funded this madman that killed 27 million of your people. like sit on that for a second how that feels and then you'd be pissed you would be pissed i think i think that the same but but i i think the same things that have happened with propaganding

with propagandizing us to believe 100% truth and stuff that is not right is now being thrown completely in the opposite direction carefully and deliberately to turn us in on ourselves to assume that every now I have a lot of problems with like the elite class obviously right right I try to look at things on a case by case basis so when I hear generalizations on things that make huge claims that can whether or not it's your intention or not but that can be taken is like therefore like the elites just in general we're all supporting Hitler, that, that's, again, I never said, again, but, but you said, I understand that. Yeah. You said, like, the line was the elites, the elites were supporting Hitler. Are we going to talk

about that? Like, that was the line. Right. And I'm not, I don't like being a literalist. I don't like picking apart words and whatever, but we're living in a world now where people are suddenly, like, saying things, like, you know what, actually, Hitler wasn't the bad guy in World War II. It was really Churchill. It's like, it's like, dude, dude. I'm not saying Winston Churchill was a perfect guy far from it we could certainly go down that again we can agree but like we can't

it sometimes feels like we are in a vortex now post-COVID to believe the polar opposite on everything and it really Why is that the polar opposite? I don't understand at all like so so one narrative is that Hitler was the worst thing ever

he was the only worst thing ever right there everyone had to kill everything in sight. Okay, I don't know where you get this narrative. That's not my narrative. No, hold on. I'm saying the general public narrative right now. Okay. This is not your narrative. Okay. I'm saying this is what the narrative has been in public. The world had to stop him and all that. And anything that happened on the way there or once we had to get to that point or once we had to do it was absolutely fine. Right. That was one narrative. Right. That's not 100% right. I don't agree with that. Right. He was a very bad guy. That part's right. But like there were a lot of other things that went into it. By the way, including I just want to lay out this. so that we can, people can understand where we're coming from. The other narrative that's now forming is literally the opposite of that. And it's literally saying, you know, maybe he had a point.

And it's like, dude, I don't know why we can't hold multiple thoughts at the same time. So I get really, and I'll admit it. And I'm sure people are going to let me know in the comments. And that's absolutely fine. That's why we do this show. We cover all perspectives here. But like, I get really, really concerned about the size. that I think is happening in the other direction now.

We've already seen a sciop in one direction, but now it is the equal but opposite reaction happening in the other direction where nothing we've ever done is right. Nothing. There's nothing in America. That is not true. I know that you don't think that's true, but I'm saying that's what a lot of people now think is true,

and it concerns me deeply. Yeah, I don't think a lot of people think that at all, actually. I think, no. Really? I do, though. I have a... I do. Like, I mean, I, I, if I told you some of the things people come and tell me off the street these days, I'm like, like, like what? Tell me something, something. Like, because I, I think that's absolute nonsense. What I, what I just told you is a really common one. I'll get, you know, you know, actually, like, dead seriously. People will walk up to me. Winston Churchill was actually the bad guy in World War II. Hitler wasn't as bad as we've been told. Okay, okay. No, that's like flat earth. Okay. No, that's what I think. But I'm saying, like, this is now something I hear a lot, Elizabeth. No, no. So again, like. But I do. But I do.

I hear it from people, from people that I would describe as normal. Again, I believe that. I believe that. They're, again, like, conspiracies are wild. But, again, there's a reason to be. Like, there's a reason why people are so, like, everything is a conspiracy. Everything must be opposite because it's easy. Because it's easy when you don't have to break down the case.

You can just, well, good guy, bad guy. Easy, right? Good guy. Good guy. Well, I was wrong. Okay, well, then somebody has to be a bad guy. Why don't we make the Churchill bad guy? Like, it's easy.

it's easy to hold that thought. It's very complicated when it's say, actually, let me explain. The United States and its people were always the good guys, but they had this very, very rotten aspect of things, which is like banking and elite forces and all of these people that are manipulating many people

in the United States. See, when you explain that, like now you don't have like black and white. You just have people who are doing their shit, Like, again, take Roosevelt. I don't blame Roosevelt on a lot of things, like in World War II. Like, we just talked about what Echison did without him knowing, what caused us the Pearl Harbor, right?

So there are elements which we know, shadow government, which is today, like, what happened with Charlie Kirk? If there's no shadow government, why do you not know what happened to Charlie, really? There is, and there always was. So ignoring that is not going to help you. So unfortunately, they are in the U.S. and Britain. Where would you be? Where would you be?

If you were a guy who's like money hungry and wanted to concord the world, like which country would you choose to do it from? The United States of America. So that's what I'm trying to tell you since I got here. Like it's not that U.S. people are actually there are some fault of ours as well because we allow this in the U.S., right? Like we don't know. We stay ignorant enough or what you said.

we go crazy on conspiracy theories and we cannot tell the difference and we cannot tell what's real what's not. That's on us. Like no one, no one stopped you from doing research. No one stopped you from being smart about these things, right? So yeah, of course there is a responsibility just like in Nazi Germany. Germans were responsible for allowing Hitler to what he did what. Like Hitler just, you know, overreed like millions of people. No, they did what they did too. So let's be real in the U.S. and take the responsibility we owe to the world, which is we have the deep state that goes and operates without our presidents even knowing about it. When we start there, then everything is much clearer, you know, and the roles of what's happening in this country

are already defined, you know? So that's what I'm saying. And by not recognizing them and just saying, oh, well, that's, you know, just one or two people and then nothing, we should not pay attention. And if I misstate that, let me be very clear. I don't think we should not pay attention to that. I just don't want to generalize the whole thing because that's how that is that is the same way that narratives start where they say like, you know, you could insert blank here about Russia and the Russian people or whatever. It's no different. Exactly. I see it both ways.

Again, like we agree on that. So that's what I'm trying to say. And the issue should be upfront and saying this. This is exactly what we need to think about. So why did I say, how would you feel as a Russian, right? Like because they are not stupid. They know this shit, right? They know, they understand what's going on.

And now take, despite that, by the way, despite all that, what happened? Gorbachev agreed to the terms. Russians came to the table. They tried to shake our hand. What did we do? What did we do? We broke every agreement on the way, not every, but many agreements. We did break agreements.

Yeah. Why? And not just any agreement, dude. Something that would cause like catastrophic results. Why? Question is why. Did we need Ukraine? No, we didn't. CIA director himself said strategically it's not important to us. Really, then why are he meddling there? Why do we have a recording? Huh? That's a lie. That's not what he thinks at all. Yeah, he did. There was a memo. No, no, no, no. I'm saying he said that. But I'm saying that's a lie. Like, that's not what he actually. actually thinks. No, of course. Like, well, I don't know why he said it. I honestly think that he understands that strategically it's not important for him. This is before war. You have to keep in mind, like, this is where he was an ambassador, right? But that's insane. It's always been important to them. Look at where it is. Like, why would the U.S., if you're looking at it from the worst case scenario too, why would they not want, and I don't agree with this,

but why would they not want that as a proxy country effectively? Look at where it's located. It's on the sea. So see, that's the problem. Like, that's the thing. Why would they want it? Like, it's not in our best interest for American people. For the elites, yeah.

So you're thinking like... That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. So I agree with that. Yeah, of course, because their objective is war and conflict and destabilates. Yeah. But put their objective,

I don't give a fuck about them. Let's just forget them for a second. American people, who we give a fuck about and what this country should be. How is in our best interest, what happens in Ukraine? And if we have forces there or not, let me tell you it's not in our interest our interest to make friends with russia imagine for a second

that we are on good terms with russia you know how many things that can help us with with you have russia in your orbit means that you can because russia is not a superpower like you right so you're the big dog you can influence russia and through russia can influence entire hemisphere on the other side why not have russia as a friend I, you know, when you put it like that, it's like put aside personal, look pre-war. Let's actually start there. Let's look pre-war before there was actually, you know, all kinds of bodies dropping on both sides and all that and funding going on and all that. You don't have to like Putin.

I fully understand that. And I've covered that many times before. but like if you're looking at it strictly strategically and saying well we're not going to control who's in charge of their country but we can you know let's talk about it like a parasite you can fucking use them for your own needs and allow them to exist in their way i see where people would make that argument yeah so you're saying let's use them for our good right how are using them for our our own good how are you doing that right now with wars you're not you're not exactly Exactly. That's my point. So why don't we make friends with them? We know they can't challenge us in any shape and form.

It's just the old kid on the on the schoolyard thing. You're so dug in. You're so dug in already that you're like you can't you can't say now. You know what? Fuck it. Actually, you can. You could, but like psychologically, the human condition doesn't let you do that. I don't know if I agree with that, to be honest. Like, I don't know because here's the thing. It happened before a million times. We did this with freaking Noriega. We did this with everybody. Why? can't we do it with Russians because it's not in best interest of the, again, elite forces and people who control this country to have peace. Because if you are friends with Russia, you have what? You have peace. And that's unacceptable. It comes down to that only, period. I think you have a point there. I agree.

When you look at, when you look at, you know, blatantly announcing like, oh, BlackRock's going to rebuild Ukraine after this war is over. When you look at the fact that there were multiple opportunities to go to the table and negotiate here. And I agree with you. Zelensky's been outed as just kind of a moron. You know, like the best part is when he's coming and telling us what to do. And it's like, buddy, we're we're paying you. Right. You know what I mean? Like I'm all for a country being able to make their own decisions and stuff like that. But when I'm funding your entire thing, which I don't agree with, but we've done it. And you come and sheet on me. That's what I'm saying. you're kidding we are making the call at that table because we have personally like yeah i don't

agree with any of it but i'm saying once you're in that situation don't sit here and tell me i don't have a vote my like i'm the chair of the board right you know exactly exactly i'll agree with that but they allowed zelinski who allowed that behavior julian they allowed zelinski they played this puppet so well they allowed him to think that he's actually winston churchill and when you do that? Like, it's true, right? And when you do that, and you allow that person to actually think that he's going to start behaving like Winston Churchill, and then you get what you got, right? And then Trump came in and slapped him in the face and said, boy, you really need to quit thinking like you're Winston Churchill, because let me put perspectives in place right now.

You're a nobody. And he was so humiliated. Remember the meeting? When Trump and Jimenez, day events just rained down on him. Oh, yeah. No, that was prime time TV. Just crazy. But he kind of woke him up. And all of a sudden, did you see the changing behavior all of a sudden? Now he's like, everybody's about, oh, Trump.

And these are the same guys who have for the Trump before he got into the office. Like Mark Ruta, like Mark Ruta, who hated Trump with everything he had. And all of a sudden, Trump is the daddy now, the big daddy, right? Like, it's pathetic. so like you want to throw up when you look at these people you know yeah it's not uh there there's an old line jo rogan had that i think is so good and it's so true he's like when you look at even being president though the people that come in and meet with you right they were there before you got there they're going to be there after you leave and you both fucking know it and so you

wonder like yeah i i have seen some of that and i'll tell what you're talking about with like people having to change up their vibe with Trump on certain things related to that war and stuff like that, I think that's a positive. But also, why is it still going on too? Right. I mean, I've had people in here who were on the ground there and they're like, dude, they're dropping bodies left and right on both sides fighting over 14 yards for two weeks. Right. Why is still going on is actually a good question. I think I have my theories of why it's going on. What's your thing? You have to imagine yourself in Putin's

place right now. Can you do that? Can you do that? Are you able to? You know, McNamara said that once. Like, the biggest thing about being a politician, and I think he repeated in fog of war, a documentary that everyone should watch, he said, you have to be

able to put yourself under, he said, under their skin. Like, you have to become them, right? That's what he's saying. Well, think about Putin and his world. He comes in power, okay, and talking about that dark spot in America that tries to control the world, right? So these guys made Russia lose territories by made.

They made a promise. Hey, bring down the wall. Let's rearrange this shit, right? Let's, let's figure out what's going on here. So these guys pretty much helped Soviet Union. like, be no more, okay? Like, in a way, it was not their achievements when Soviets got there. It was all Soviets by themselves. They imploded from the inside, but they helped the process of Berlin Wall and all that, and Bush came in and did what he did. But here's an interesting thing.

What did they do right after that Berlin Wall came down? I can tell you what they did. they sent operatives, whether it's CIA and MI6 and others, in country of Georgia, Ukraine, and all these countries that belonged to Russia, and they started arming groups that eventually would break off Georgia, Ukraine, and other places from Russia. So now, like, you're Putin, remember? I'm an American, you're Putin. So you ask, answer me as Putin, okay?

So you lived Yeltsin years where your president was like a funny puppet to Bill Clinton, right? When he was begging on the phone to Bill Clinton, not to bomb Serbia, right? So you watched all that. You were at the Kajib, you watched all that. And you have this anger in you. Like how come a president of Russia, like a huge superpower, back someone else? Not to bomb Slavs. Like, what is that, by the way?

Right? So then you had to take this anger when you came in power as a president. You have to take this anger and put it in a box. And you went over to Bush. He said, let's be friends. And you meant it, by the way. You even offered, why don't Russia become part of NATO? What does that mean? That means like full on friendship zone here. And Bill Clinton said, we got a great idea. And next day he comes and next day. I talked to people, they said no. Why? So he made multiple attempts to be friends with the Americans, with, like, no, like, there was no extra, like, you know, what's the catch, right? Like, let's be friends, dude. What is the deal? And they said, no, we don't want you as a friend.

I'll tell you even better. Michael Hayden, the psychopath who was in charge of NSA and then CIA, I mean, can you imagine how many butts you got a kiss? to be like the charge of both, like one agency is big enough. And he comes out and says, well, we didn't care what Russia thought. We didn't give it fuck. Like he didn't say fuck, but we didn't care. He said, really?

You didn't care that Russia was telling you that, hey, do not jeopardize my national security? Why do you care when England says that? England was the biggest enemy we ever had historically. Why do you care when England says that? Why accept, like Israel, England and not Russia in French? what's up with that? Like, think for a second. Yeah. Right? Yeah, I don't, I think that when you look at the foreign policy of the United States towards Russia just on a diplomatic level since the fall of the Soviet Union, I don't think there have been a lot of good strokes at all. I will agree

with that 100%. I think that you have forced them into a box such that. Even if you get people who maybe are objectively bad people, maybe they do some bad shit to their people, you are giving them a case to take their foreign policy actions that they do. And it is a great point that you make to put yourself, quote unquote, under the skin of a leader, particularly someone that you don't think is good. I don't think it's bad actually. I know you don't, but no, no, not at all. I've had someone sit across from me who's had all kinds of friends executed by that guy. Yeah, I'm very, very hard for me to see that. I'm pretty sure.

I'm pretty sure I know who you're talking about, and I don't think so. So I grew up hating Putin, unfortunately. I admit that I was wrong. I grew up in country of Georgia, right? Like, I mean, as a kid, so Edward CIA puppet was the president. So they taught me to hate him, so I hated him because I was not a journalist. I didn't have the tools I have today. So I hated the guy with everything I had.

And then when I became a journalist and I started actually reading stuff and actually understanding putting myself into his skin, I realized that not only this guy is not a bad dude, he's also a really effing good leader of Russia. Why is it? Let's start with the first part. Why is he not? 1991. Where is Russia? 1991? Yeah.

What's happening? Lost, broken. Communist felt. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All of that. So then Russian people are looking for food in freaking dumpsters.

Chechnya is a growing problem. It's about to explode, which it did, by the way. And all of a sudden, you have a pathetic president like Yeltsin. And then Putin comes in power. And not only he takes the country out of the gutter, but he actually gives Russian people pride to be a superpower again. Argue that fact with me. Like, argue that.

did that did not happen Russia is not a third yeah who else did this I mean there's no I don't I don't I don't disagree with that so would you argue that most Russians like Putin like I was there I you know I visited Russia I know that

most majority of Russians support him majority of Russians is that effect or not you say you tell me I would actually believe that's a fact I think there's been some polls that are conducted that are like clearly skewed but which you're saying if you're saying

when they're like oh not 95% of people support him. That's not the case. But there is never the case of 995. Do I believe it when the data comes out? Like, oh, 60%? Yes. So let's agree on basics, okay?

Putin reformed Russia into another superpower, which it wasn't, by the way, in 1990. It was a mess. It was a mess. It was not super power. Yeah. So he brought the status of superpower back. He reformed the entire army. That was like nothing in 1990s. they didn't even they didn't know what they were doing yeah he reformed the country completely and his people like him why is he a bad leader hmm what makes him where did where do you

want me to start no i asked you like what kind of leader is a is a good leader when he reforms the country i think i think i think part of being a good leader is also knowing that the system that that that you are not bigger than the system and this is a guy who's repeatedly changed the Constitution to be able to stay in power of the country into perpetuity. It's also it's also a guy that and like I say this knowing full well that my country and many countries around the world have done this stuff too. So let me be very clear on that. But he's a guy who came to power blowing up his own apartment buildings in Russia.

That was not a false flag. I'm sorry. If you're talking about the Chichen War, it was not a false flag. I do believe it was. I mean, it was actually, I agree. It was a false flag. I'm sorry, I miss Moispo, it was a false plague, not Vladimir Putin's false plague. If you know the case, which I do, I can send you an article about it.

All right, so how do you think, who else would have done that? Vladimir Putin, because David Satter was the guy on that. Alexander Littvenenko was the other guy and Putin killed him. Yeah, I know Alexander, I know who he was. He killed him outside of his country, poisoned the guy. Yes, I actually believe that he did kill Laitwinenko. And that's what I'm saying. Why would he, why would he kill the guy?

who Litvinenko was a former FSB spy who was blow, who, so there were two guys who were blowing the whistle on on the apartments. One of them is my friend David Satter, who sat here with me two times before. He was in the West because he's an American. The other one was Alexander Litvinenko who was FSB internal. Alexander Litvinenko was executed. I think it was in London. I haven't looked at that case in a lot. He was poisoned with polonium by FSB agents that is on Vladimir Putin's orders to do that. Right. The case that did. Zero argument with that. David, David runs through the entire case and he's written like eight books. I forget the name of this one. But there's one of his books. We can pull it up deep. David sat or apartment bombings book. He makes the full case.

He's laid it out with me on episode 92. You know how many times I've heard it on American propaganda radio too? I have no doubt. Listen, listen, hold on, Elizabeth. I have no doubt that there is propaganda against Putin. I have zero doubt about that. I know that if they could blame Putin for someone farting in another country. I'll make it super easy for you. Let's say he did. Like I disagree and I'll send you a great work that goes into detail to who did it and help. But let's say I'll make it super easy for you. Let's say he did it. He conducted a false flag. What was that false flag about, do you remember? So the false flag was at a time where what happened was Yeltsin had a 1% approval rating. Putin was the number two in charge towards the end. He had a 1%

approval rating as well. Yeltsin gets on the phone with Bill Clinton and says, hey, I'm going to introduce you to my number two. He's going to be the next president. Clinton's like, the fuck you're talking about. You're about to be put on trial by your people after you lose power. Then the apartments fall down. It then is blamed on the Chechens. They start the second Chechens war, Putin becomes the wartime leader. He moves up the election. Yes. You know, this is a, this is a democratic leader. Right. Moving up in a, democratic leader, whatever. You understand, what I mean. Like, like, when the connotation is like, he's, I shouldn't say democratic, but you understand what I mean. Like, it's supposed to be a democratic election. Okay. I'm sorry. I misspoke.

But like, moves up the election, why he's a wartime leader and his, and his, and his, and his, and his, and his, and his, and his, and his, and his, and his, and his, and his, and his, he's, and basically never gives up power like one plus one plus one but and when you look at the actual evidence in the towers like okay so here here's the thing i told you i'll make it super easy for you let's say was the red flag operation sorry a false flag operation right okay great so that operation happened so that they could have an excuse to go into chichina and start another war okay so the question is was chichen war out looking at now where we are correct way to do things or not because 90 I'll give you a number two, 90% of historians and political analysts would say, yes, it was.

Because look at Chechnya now. So what he did there, let's say if he did, which I again disagree and I'll send you work to read, but let's say he did that, false flag, and killed like four people. It wasn't four people. Well, okay, so let's say 50. It was more than English. Even one is a tragedy, but let's say 50, okay? It was hundreds, but yeah.

ended hundreds no way yeah it was it was multiple towers it's not like it's not can we do the russian apartment bombings 1999 there's no way it's hundreds like casualties like but anyway so he goes into chechnya that is about to become a huge problem right and i told you 3007 okay i was wrong about that so let's say the the chechen war if he has not gone and dealt with that right, that would become the downfall of the entire region. Everyone agrees that what Chechnya is today, like with complete calm in Chechnya. And yes, some Russians say will kind of, he won Chechnya by money in a way because he puts a lot of money into Chechnya. But the realities, there is no conflict.

The reality is the hottest spot was neutralized, right? that could have caused thousands and thousands more deaths. So now make the analysis as a leader, okay, 307 people. Okay, so 307 people versus millions that could follow. You make the choice. You're Vladimir Putin, remember? You make the choice. I think it's the same hypocrisy of things we look at in the U.S.

where we've made these choices. No, no, it's not because you don't really have the enemies. What enemies do you have? Like, okay, so. In the United States? Yeah. Who's your enemy? Really? Who's your enemy? I mean, we made everyone our enemy, but who was there? Like, was Vietnam your enemy? The country that you invaded for like on a lie? Is that? Yeah. So who was it? Who was the enemy? Golf of Tonkin was a false flag. Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm talking about. That's exactly. So then the question is, who's attacking you? Who's attacking you? Who's attacking you? Who's your enemy? In that case, that was a false flag that we did. I agree. What about 9-11? What about 9-11? Who attacked you? So with the apartment bombings, it's the same argument.

That's my point. How is the same argument? You have West funding Chechen terrorists, which we know is true. Like, they funded not only Chechen terrorists, but you have West funding Georgian terrorists. Like, you know it's going to explode. They are putting funding. These people are getting stronger and stronger and stronger. You're going to allow that these groups to become what Abkhazia became for Georgians?

Are you kidding me? Like, how is that the same case? I don't recall anyone funding Vietnamese to attack you. I don't think anyone trying to destabilize the United States with militia groups from the inside, putting money into it. Did Russia do it? No. So it's not the same case. I'm sorry, it's not the same case.

So this is a new president who came in in the most complex region. His enemies, by the way, in the CIA and MI6, are using the complexity of the region, funding these militia groups. Have you ever heard of what happened to a, Besslon? In the school? Right. Who was that? Was it Russia too? What was Besslan about? Pull up Besslan's numbers for me. Or have you ever heard like theater siege of almost thousand people? Who was that? What was that about? They blamed that one on the Chechens.

Thank you. That's all I have to say. So you have enemies funding these groups and you're not supposed to do anything about it. Just let them become Afghanistan. because if Russia ever became Afghanistan, we would have a disaster on our hands, ever. Afghanistan is Afghanistan. When Russia's such an entity gets to that level, which if not for Putin, it would have. And to answer your question too, and why I became from a hater of Putin to actually, I understand this guy's situation, and I actually think that he's a good leader, is very simple. Because, yes, did he manipulate the Constitution to say in power?

Yes. Would you have a better candidate other than him to put the shit together in Russia and keep the region glued? Name one. Name one. And I will say, you know what, F Putin, he should have gone. If you could give me one candidate that who could have, could have done it, nobody. Nobody. How do we know it's no one if no one's ever been given the opportunity to do it? Yeah, they have been given. Alexander, what's his name? The guy, the opposition. Navalny? Navalny, yeah. So Navalny was given a great opportunity to be the opposer of Putin. They threw him in prison, though. Yeah, you know why?

Why? Who did he have dealings with? So you think he was a full-blown, full-blown Western asset? Of course he was. Julian, that's the thing. What I will agree with, one thing that I will agree with is that he fails in conducting, like, how do I say this? What Putin fails in is, and I don't know, maybe he has somebody, like, after him, but he fails in creating what Yeltsin created with Putin. Like, he fails in creating, like, an heir to his empire.

Like, and I don't know if he has one. People say he has one. I don't know. But the reality is if Putin did not rule Russia for, like, from Yeltsin period time to now, we would be in a huge shit because right now I can tell you I don't have any hope that next Russian leader

is going to be as moderate as Putin because you don't know who like what you don't know who's next in charge yeah yeah like so would you like look at Putin's persona every educated economist financier like Jeffrey Sachs for example

great example which I still don't know why Jeffrey sex is not advising someone like Trump and we have Hawks advising him in the most sensitive situation we are in right now. So everyone would agree that Putin had huge restraint for like almost seven years in a row. And I would say even more, he exercised a huge restraint against us and against Britain of what we've done and how we manipulated the agreements, walked out of it. Why did we walk out from an anti-missile ballistic treaty? Who forced us to what was the case exactly, right?

So again, remember you're Putin. So think like him. Like to him, everything that you did is a betrayal. I came to as a friend. Everything you did is a betrayal. And then your only argument against me as a persona is that when you're not a democratic leader, how can I be? Yeah, you're just a bad guy. Yeah.

Well, okay. So here is how I dismantle that in two ways, okay? Number one, how can I ever be democratic leader when you're trying to overthrow me every single time? What I'm supposed to put my trust in like every random Russian that they are not going to buy into your propaganda? How can I be a democratic leader? I gave you a Georgian example of things, right?

So that's one. So let's say your answer is like, well, just be tougher. Just be tougher and don't allow them to overthrow you. Okay, great. Let's take that. Second, your argument is just be a democratic leader. Aren't we the guys who put dictators everywhere, like in Latin America? We overthrew the democratic leader, mozadik.

He was democratic. Why did we want from him? So your argument is this. You're a hypocrite. You're a hypocrite if you do that. Oh, I'm not up. By the way, I ain't arguing with the fact that America's got a lot of hypocrites in the bureaucracy, including the people that are the loudest about a guy like Vladimir Putin.

I have no doubt about that. So what we are trying to work out here, like with us, me and you, Julian, is very simple. Is Vladimir Putin a dictator? He has to be, and yes, he is. Yes, he is. He's not a democratic leader. He never argued he was ever. I don't remember Vladimir Putin coming out and argued, I'm a democratic leader.

Look at me. Look at my democracy. He never did. But he also argued that the situation he's in doesn't allow anything else. And it's true. It's true. Explain to me just now what we talked about, how are you going to do that? Like, no one wants to see more democratic Russia than Russian people, but they also understand what's at stake. You know what I mean? Like, that's why they support his, their president.

And there was a time when Russia ate it all and did not support the Tsar, and they killed Russian Tsar, and it resulted in Bolshevism and communism. And this time, they've got his back. They've learned the lesson. You know what I mean? How do you God, there's a lot of directions to go. There's a lot of directions to go with that. The only thing I would say that I can never, ever forgive Vladimir Putin as a person

is there was a guy that he could have talked to and he chose not to. NEMSov? Yeah. There was a guy. He killed him 100 yards from the fucking palace. Yes. Yes. So this guy,

I will say this, Nemtsov bought our propaganda, the propaganda part. Like he also brought the American, bought the American dream, which was true, right? But he bought a lot of our propaganda, unfortunately. And he started talking with the talking points of globalists. Like, if you look at his interviews, which until today I adore him, like as a person. I liked him a lot. He was just looking into his eyes. That is so interesting.

Right. You like him and you still adore him. What do you mean? It's just very... It's like... Edor who? It's like... Edor... Nemtsov. Yeah.

I like him. Yeah. What's wrong with Nemtsov? There's nothing wrong with him. Yeah. So... It's just interesting. The way that you talk about Putin and then talk about Nemtsov, that's very similar to saying you adore the Red Sox and the Yankees.

I would disagree. But I understand for you it looked that way, right? They hated each other. One killed the other. Yeah. So, so... Doesn't mean that... Listen, they both wanted the same thing.

They both won the best for Russia. They just, no, I'm telling you. One executed the other. Yes. Because he disagreed with them. So? What do you mean so? Okay, so again, again, again, okay, so according to your logic, then all our leaders, all our presidents in the United States, how many people they have killed?

Oh, I have no doubt we've had some of the scummiest people. Okay, then what, then what makes Putin different? Nothing makes it. Nothing makes that different. But you have to agree, though, when you said, oh, Elizabeth, you have no idea how many times I go out and all these people tell me this stuff because that's the opinion. Would you disagree that the opinion is the Vladimir Putin is this terrible, terrible person when he's not doing anything different than all the American leaders? Like, what is he doing any different? In fact, I would argue he's better than most of our leaders, most, not all, but most. I'm not counting Kennedy or Lincoln or any of them.

I'm talking about Bush Sr. I'm talking about Bill Clinton. I would argue that he's like three times better than these people put together. What these people do exactly? Because again, you're judging as a personal level. I'm judging as look at everything. He, the guy like literally drag his country out of depression, made his country superpower. His people love him. He stands for the right principles, no transies, no weird, like, animal shit here. Like, you do not touch the kids. It's off limits. You do not do that. Like, Christianity is our religion. That's we go. Okay. So then you have Bill Clinton, the Bush senior, and all these people that dismantled American myth. Okay. Would we argue on that? Like, literally got it America. Got into a ton of wars.

Our economies were handed over, by the way, handed over the reins to the corporate world that we talked about now. So did the completely opposite for their countries? How are they better than Putin in any shape and form? Just just so that I can put this on record. I don't I don't view Bush Cheney is better than Putin at all at all. In fact, they were able with their GDP and power to cause more damage than than that is. I don't I don't disagree with that. I think we have massive, massive problems in our bureaucracy and leadership here today that is on a level that I don't think it's ever been. I'd like to think that's fixable. And there's a lot on the bone that you just said.

And I'm trying to process this because I know it's not the most popular thing, right? But like I've been doing this a long time and I'm going to do it for a long time after this. And I'm always trying to get better at what I do. And I think that By the way, it's crazy to me that you know who named so Viz Like you know that how many people don't And I'm like trying to keep his memory alive

I know all these ones It's crazy I was the guy Trying to tell people about Putin in 2016 And no one fucking listen But you know I think I think today And by the way

I think Elizabeth I just want to respond to some of this because there's a lot you just put out there. I think today in this discussion so far, however far we are in, you know, maybe like an hour, 50 minutes or something. I think that I'm going to look at this tape and see a fuck ton of mistakes

in how to handle certain things that I have made on my end. This has not been a good day for me. But that's not your fault. That's my fault. I think it was an amazing day for you. What are you talking about? I don't, I don't, I think there's,

I think there were a couple times where I jumped the gun on your argument that wasn't fair to you. And I also think there were multiple times where there are hypocrisies within my own country that I know in my head that I didn't lead with out front that should be led with so that if you're going to make a point, you don't throw a stone from a glass house. And I'm sure people are going to let me hear it on that. And I understand that. I look at these arguments online and I see because I like I want to stand. with this point and have you be able to flesh all this out about Putin. You just did a lot, but there's a lot more on the bone here. I see two camps of form online.

People that say you're either a fucking... Putin puppet. Right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure you'll get called it again today. And I'm not saying that that's fair. I'm saying I'm sure you'll get called that.

Yeah, and I'm fine with that. And then you will see people in the other direction, whatever the opposite of that is. glorify him and shit like that yeah right that's not right either you know yeah I don't know yeah what the full truth is on fucking anything none of us do I can go off of things that define people is bad and then also live in a world where they are still in power so I have to deal with that right now people I'll give you another example because I think this is an important distinction unfortunately whether you like it or I like it I certainly don't money does run the world and when you look at Putin when they make the comparisons between him and Hitler that is wrong is wrong and I will and I will there's two main reasons for that he wasn't as bad as Hitler and killing people I have plenty of problems with Putin in that department but he was no Hitler secondly Vladimir Putin's country has a GDP the size of Italy whether you like that or not you're right Germany Germany had the fastest growing GDP in the world. They were taking over countries, breaking every

fucking treaty around the world, starting wars on fucking three fronts and eventually four. Like, it was in a completely different situation. So you have to look at that scope. You can say you don't like Putin. You can say you hate that you think he's a murderous psychopath. And I would agree with that. But like, you have to understand that he is a, he is a peace on the table. And you can't just wave your wand and get him out there as much as you may want to. Right. Because you then give him exactly what he wants. give him saying, look, the West is trying to overthrow all of us. They're the people that run the world. They're the bad guy here. I have to be able to kill these people. I have to be

able to take down those apartments. I have to be able to fucking start these wars. I have to be able to, you know, and not to say every war he started. I have to be able to, you know, hold on to power for 25 years because I'm the only guy that can do it. And by the way, someone that would come in would definitely be way worse than me. You give him all the ammunition to do that when you take the diplomatic actions that have been taken post-Soviet Union. I will agree with that. What I do want to say to you just before you respond is that

when this isn't your fault but seeing as you're from Georgia, which is not Russia, to be clear, but you're from Georgia, you moved here, that's great, you live here, you renounce your citizenship in Georgia, you claim to love it here and that's awesome people can cherry pick what you say

when you are so strong like actually I understand Putin and he's a good guy like I'm not even saying this is your fault but you can play right into the hands of the people who want to discredit you because they're like oh well she's got it

and I have one thing to say I don't give a fuck you know why I'm going to say what the truth is and what I know to be the truth and they can discredit me all day. They've been trying from the day I did the interview in Georgia, which I'll tell you about and this how the system works.

I guarantee you, there will be a ton of comments where I'm racist. I'm a Russian puppet. Fuck them. I mean, like, look, it's, it is people, and that's the beauty of the freedom of the internet. People can say whatever they want and they're going to have their opinions. It doesn't affect me. It doesn't affect you. Like, you know where your heart is at.

You know what it's about. I do feel like sometimes, you know, like the world culture was insane on every level. Like you're not allowed to say words, which is just crazy to me. I think I worry that and this isn't this isn't what you're saying by the way, to be clear. I'm talking about a separate conversation here. But I always worry about the antidote to anything because sometimes it feels like things are, we're being used against ourselves online to draw ourselves into different cultural corners and to notice differences across all different groups and rally around just our group and

things like that. And I don't think it, I don't think it means like, oh, people are racist or anything like that. I think we're being preyed upon with our worst fears sometimes. And what I, what I try to do is like, I'm sure I fail sometimes, but like, I do my best with this show to be like look at all the different people around the world they were doing cool different shit i do all different topics i do all different types of people all different backgrounds like you ain't got to agree with all of it you you don't but you're gonna learn different perspectives and it's like it's like i've cited this a million times it's like the old bruce lee quote take what's good discard what's bad get on with your life you know what i mean that's that's what i try to do with people in it and i

think that the judgment that is that is cast automatically where people are assuming the worst intentions is very dystopian and yeah 1984ish sometimes exactly right do you do you feel like maybe that's intentional or it's just the product of brainwash I think it's both both I think there's people who intentionally pull the strings like the puppeteer to do that and then I think that I don't think think of the smartest person you know out there everyone listening even the brightest person you know is not not susceptible to being pulled in to a cult-like structure or being brainwashed with something. We are all susceptible to it.

Of course, myself included there. Like, you know, I think that the internet makes that easier than ever. And you have accounts that aren't even real that are being wielded by every country, including ours. Yeah. You know, to create. It's just a giant, like, blob of noise propaganda war at all times from every angle. And it's just like, turn that fucking thing off

get it out of here I don't want to know I don't care I'll talk with people meet them where they are and we'll let it land where it lands that's kind of how I look at it you know that's how it should be yeah I think that's awesome can I run to the bathroom all fast

yes we'll be right back all right we're back so we actually haven't talked about this yet today but you've been in we mentioned at the beginning we just haven't gone into it you've been in the courtroom for the Tyler Robinson thing post-Charliecar because you live out in Salt Lake, which is that, you know, people dissed like so much.

I don't know whether it's like Mormons. Probably just a Mormon thing. Great people. So I love Salt Lake. It's so good. But yeah, I was there. I live there. And of course, the very first hearing that I attended, it was so weird.

So get this. I thought this is a high profile case. Would you say it's a high profile case? Thank you. So would you expect a ton of people to show up? Probably. Right. Well, that's what I expected. I got there early. I went up and there's maybe like give and take, obviously I didn't count, but maybe 20 people there. That's it. Journalists. This is a state court. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, why are, why is it just us? Why is it like lines of people trying to get in? So that's awkward. Yes. But all right, let's move on, right?

We go in, they are like, no phones. Phones in the pocket. I'm like, well, I don't have pockets, and I don't have, you know, I don't have a purse. I never have a purse, like rarely, right? Like, sorry, bag, I do have a purse, but it's small purse. So I'm like, I have nothing to put this in. So because what they told us was if we see a phone in your hands, you're out. Why so strict?

Is that, is that legal? I don't know. I don't know if it's legal. But, well, it's a public trial, right? Like, it's a public thing. So you would think that there should not be a problem. And their excuse was, well, we don't want to make a circus out of it. Like, no, no filming, no nothing.

Okay, no one's filming. Can I just freaking have a phone like on me? So I had to like put my phone in between my legs and hide it. What if they saw that I have it in my hand or something, right? Yeah, now it's on camera. it uh-oh what they're gonna do like you know come arrest you yeah up if them so anyway the the point is um i had uh so they said you will be outsted right i'm sitting there listening the the whole tyler robinson persona was weird like the guy never moved i said this multiple

times like he was there like a zombie you watch the type right oh yeah dead dead but behind the eyes Completely. Yeah. So, and he states his name and he's like, blah, blah, blah, blah, and that's it. And nothing else. And within, I don't remember exactly what time it was. If I had my phone on me, I would probably know. What about that watch right there?

This is actually not working. Oh, you're like me. Yeah. You keep the watch if you like it. You see the clock out there. It hasn't told the time in fucking forever. It's just there for the look. Yeah.

I love how it looks. So it's there. Yeah. So I don't know exactly how long it was, but it felt 15 to 20 minutes max of entire thing. So then they take a recess. This is just the first hearing. First hearing, yeah. So and by like just being it a first hearing, I assumed, okay, so we're going to break the case with judge is going to talk.

Like this shit is going to happen, right? Yeah, like maybe 15 to 20 minutes. That's what it felt like. And then they were like, okay, we're taking a recess. I'm like, what? Like, what do you mean? I didn't understand any, like... What did they discuss in the 15, 20 minutes?

Like, what was the total? They presented a case. They presented what he was accused of and seemed like, I don't remember exact quote, but like, this is where we found out that they were going for the death penalty, right? So that was it. Like, nothing else.

He didn't have a lawyer back then, keep in mind. Like, he didn't have a lawyer at all. No. So they were looking for his order. This is like a very first hearing, right? So he was in prison all in virtual, right? He was not in person. But another weird thing was there were no relatives of Tyler Robinson.

That part surprises me less. You're thinking don't bring the parents because it will become a spectacle or something. I don't think they would want to come. I think they would probably be so shell-shocked. This is just the first hearing. I could, that one surprises me less. Right. Continue.

Yeah. So, I mean, I could understand that. And when I spoke to, so I work, work with like people, well, I know a lot of former FBI guys. I know a lot of former SEALs, CIA, CIA people, like, you know, buckets of them. So, and they are all the same, by the way. They all think they are different, but they are all so similar. Like, you know, sociopathic narcissistic line. all of this stuff, it's there, I'm sorry.

So, but anyway, they all said the people like from FBI, former FBI guys that I know, I called up my detective as well, like Lee detective, NYC, PD. So I was like, would you, like, what would happen with the parents? Because I'm not aware of this stuff, right? What authorities would like to do in these cases, like high profile case? So I was like, what would you do with the family? And he was like, he said the same thing as you. Like, I'm not surprised they were not there.

Like, I would advise against it to go and, like, sit there, right? So I get that part, even though if I was a mother, I would be there. If I was a mother, I wouldn't care. I would be there to support my kid, right? It's hard to, it's really hard for me to put myself in the parent shoes. I can't even imagine. You know, this is not long after as well. It's like, yeah.

Maybe you would. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. So, yeah. And what was the most? The most unusual part was the fast recess, right? Why are we going to recess again? What's up?

Like why? Give us everything. And then another unusual part was like, okay, recess means you're gonna continue, right? So I'm coming back or something. They were like, no, you're free to go. We were like, what? So why dismiss journalists and not let them back in? So they conducted more parts of the hearing?

As I understand, yes, because they said that we're going to take a recess. That means, like, they're going to come back, right? So why not include us there? So they didn't let you back in? And I thought, I was like, did I miss here something like that? So I'm walking with another journalist who was, like, walking behind me. I was like, so that's it. They are not going to let us back in.

And she goes, like, yeah. So I'm like, okay. So we just, I just left. So, yeah, I mean, the whole case is weird. I'm pretty sure you know. Oh, it's weird. It's weird. Yeah, so I had Jan Carroll, an amazing dude, by the way, who's on my show.

Oh, he has? Oh, yeah, Jan is awesome. He's a great channel, and he's, like, following this much closer than I am, because I took a different route. Jan is following every single video, like everything that, that... Ian does turn over a lot of rocks, man. Right, and that's great, right? So he's on this, like a hawk, and recently he had that whole. Mike McCoy thing going, right? Like you've watched every...

Is this the... He was the chief of staff who was on the phone behind it? Yeah. What's a little strange to me is how strong his dad is being about it. His dad wasn't fucking there. That's weird. I think, you know, the one part about this whole thing, because it's weird. The whole thing is fucking...

I mean, we'll go into it. But like, how people react to something like that, very a lot. You know, the kid, and I watched the video of him, the kid was on the phone and he just like turned around and then was like walking away and, you know, maybe it's surreptitious or maybe like he's like, what the fuck did I just see and his body is flighting away from it? What I just found really weird though was how the dad. Thanks. Right? Like, can you tell people what the dad was saying and what the difference was there? So the dead really screwed his son over in my opinion because as I understand Mike McCoy had told I don't remember

what outlet but I think he was Washington Post or something like that he told them that he was on the call with Erica Kirk right so he was talking to Erica Kirk well his father comes out and says within a minute my son called me and he was covered in blood yeah like I I don't know, Julian, I might be blind, but did you see any blood on him? Unless he, I didn't see him get in the car afterwards. No. Maybe he did. I don't know.

Well, he was never in the car, right? When Frank came out and named who was in the car with him. Oh, yeah, that guy. He didn't name Mike McQuarrie, right? So, no, Mike was not in the car, as I understand. And he was also when they loaded Charlie in the car, he was walking away. Yeah. So, okay, let's play devil's ad.

Okay, let's say he was shocked. Okay, he was shocked or, let's say he's a coward. He was shocked and he's a coward and he didn't want to be in the line of the bullet or whatever. Okay, great. Why lie afterwards? Why, when everything is safe and Charlie's rushed in a way, Charlie's rushed to the car, why not check on him? Why not be rushing there?

Why not be helping? So that's where the case falls apart, right? his own case where he says, like, well, I was just afraid and, you know, I needed to get away. Okay, what after? When Charlie's in the car, go check on him. Yeah, what's up with that. That's what I'm saying. Like, who's lying?

I think both of them are. Is it just the dad? Is it both? Is it him? It's weird no matter what. Oh, for sure. It's weird. Because either way, his dead story doesn't line up, right?

So if he's talking to his dad, well, like, when you look at the footage, he's already on the phone with somebody, right? Yes. So he didn't call, exactly. So he didn't call within a minute. He was already on the phone. So that's a lie, right? So then you would think that what?

The guy didn't hear the gunshot in the call? Like, of course, okay, let's say he's deaf. He's old. He's deaf. He didn't hear it. Why say within a minute? What are you winning with that? Do you think it's possible for that that he, when you say like,

oh, within a minute or within two minutes? was actually really within three, which we don't even have that video. His son may have hung up that first call and then called his dad. Could be. Which then also, to be fair, does not explain, oh, he was soaked in blood or all this stuff. Like, again, I don't know why the guy, I couldn't figure out why the guy came out and was saying all that. Yeah, because I think what he wanted to do, quite honestly, is portray his son as a hero. And he was true.

Why? Like, you know what I mean? Good question. So if you were, and I'm not saying they are, I'm just like, hypothetically, if you were a villain, what first instinct of yours would be? Project yourself as the hero? Thank you. Yeah, that's all I'm saying. Yeah, could be. Could be.

We could be wrong. We could be one of those. There's a lot of things this could be. I mean, I'm just at a point with it where, you know, I do think people are running with things as fact online, which is not good. Like, I had my friend Brian Enton in here. I think that episode will come out, like, right in front of yours. And, like, he'll get a lot of shit for how he's reporting on it. But he's just reporting what he sees, right?

And he's not going beyond that. And he's also reporting what people are saying. You and I can sit here and be like, I think that guy's lying or whatever. He's not going to do that. That's fine with me. I think that you also have to be very open to the idea, as in, like, almost, like, kind of assume it, that the story we've been told, not to say Tyler Robinson's, not involved but the story we've been told up kid on top shot him 30-06 down out over like

what faith have we been given at this point right from people around the investigation to ever assume that that's the full story right it doesn't seem that way and like if i were running a PR campaign on the aftermath of this i would never do any of the things that they've done I would like to think I would never do it, right? I mean, like, the optics. Right. Are awful. Absolutely.

And the problem is, like, they are so angry. Like, I know this for a fact, because when I did my interview with Tucker, like, they just went freaking nuts online. And I'm like, I've never seen anything like that. We were not even, like, we only touched on Charterly like a couple of times. And all of a sudden, I've got all these trolls like, anti-Semite, anti-Semite. And they realized afterwards that. oh wait a second she actually works with jewish people we can't do that so then i became a russian puppet so like it's crazy but i just didn't realize like i was i took a screenshot and sent it to

talker and tucker was like that bothers you part of course what is what is actually you don't have to answer this especially if it's like off record or private conversations but based on what's public domain because i haven't really seen him talk about it i'm sure about it. I'm sure he has, but I just haven't seen it. What does Tucker make of the investigation? Because, like, he was, he was friends with Charlie Kirk. It's personal for him, I would imagine. So, definitely personal. I'm not going to talk about, like, for Tucker. So Tucker should say that himself. But what he told me, like in the interviews out there, is very simple. If the FBI doesn't do a sufficient investigation, people should go bonkers. That's what he said.

And I agree. I agree, too. And the reason we're here, me and you're talking about this, is because they have not done sufficient investigation. If they had, then we wouldn't be here. You're too busy up in Valhalla. Right. Funniest thing a lot of time.

You know, I want to ask you a question now. Okay. What's up with... I ask this to everyone that had any relationship with Kesh Patal and Nimbangino. These are two people. that I really admired, like when they were out, right? Like, these are two people that said the right things. Like, I was like, oh my gosh, like, Cash is going to direct the FBI.

Finally, like, you know, diaper is going to change. You know, something's going to have. And we are sitting with Charlie Kirk's murder, and they are telling us the biggest bullshit I've ever heard. Even at some point, like, art of case, like murder makes sense, but not this. what and doesn't it strike you odd that Tyler Robinson is like secret and hidden from everybody

yeah there's there's really nothing about this that strikes me as normal right they they you know they paved over the whole scene I think within like five days put like a water fountain there actually went up and checked on it

yeah why are they changing everything like that's the thing like what is going on they they change the roof to the thing as well like the roof yeah yeah i'll tell you one thing that's really sticking with me is the lack of autopsy because yes we all saw it on camera well they said they did an autopsy it's just uh utah law conveniently says that it doesn't have to come out yeah that's that's what i'm saying like like the the the lack of public transparency that's in the interest there for us to be able to see because what the autopsy will show is you'll see you know a diagram picture where they have the you know basically like the lines that show the angle it goes in

and people you know they're not stupid they'll be able to let that in the public domain and the expert's going to expert at that point i don't understand why they won't release that you want to talk about the bullet let me tell you something cool so everyone's and this is like so the talking about conspiracy theories. So when this happened, like everyone just went like crazy about, oh, he was wearing a like bullet-proof vest or whatever and the Tyler Robinson had the gun in the pants. Like, so when I get on a case to investigate as an investigative journalist, like the first thing I do is separate, I separate the noise from what's real, right? Excuse my language. Everyone could see the nipples, Charlie's nipples. He's not wearing the vest.

Let's move on. Like, why are we still talking about it, right? skinny jeans picture Tyler Robinson, we know how, like, no way there's a gun, move on. But here's the problem. Once you move on from that, like me and Ian talked about this, like the skinny jeans and gun, okay, so then if he didn't have the gun in the pants, then did he even use that gun? Was that even the gun that was used as a, because that's how we know. Like, he walked with it, he did, right? Like, then how do you know it was the gun? The 30-06 bullet is what's really getting me, and I am not a ballistic sex. Right.

There's someone that I'm going to have in, who really want to discuss this who is. But from what I have been told from people who are, and please fill in the comments here if you are a ballistics expert, the idea that from 200 yards, a 30-06 bullet would be shot and have a direct hit on the neck and not literally blow the head off. I mean, it was a violent shot. Don't get me wrong. Every special upset is what you just said. Every body.

That's a little bizarre. And also, you know, optically speaking here, when Andrew Colvette, who was like the producer for Charlie Kirk, went to write out that tweet about talking with the surgeon, where he's like, the surgeon said that Charlie was truly Superman and the bullet would have gone through anyone else, even if for some reason that were true, and I don't think it is, even if it were. That's one of those, like when you're a kid, your parents teach you to count to five before you press send. That's one of those you write it out and you go into a quiet room with no phones near you and read it out loud to yourself and ask yourself this question. Is this in any way helping this case? Just start there. The answer is immediately no if you have an IQ even at room temperature. And then you ask yourself the question, is this going to cause us.

bigger problems. And once again, the answer is immediately yes if you have a room temperature or below IQ. And the fact that he wrote that tweet and actually press send, it was magic bullet all over again. And it's like, and by the way, he was saying it in like a, you know, they've been like religiousizing. That's not a word, but his death. He was saying it in this like prophetic way. Like Charlie was, and I'm paraphrasing here, people, but it was like Charlie was truly touched by God that this bullet wouldn't go through. Malaka, he's dead.

Right. He didn't, like, rise from the dead or, like, suddenly, like, get shot and be like, here's the bullet. I'm good, fam. He's dead. Like, it wasn't a miracle. He died a horrible death.

We all watched it. He left a family behind. This is a person. Like, it's not a miracle. Right. Like, I don't give a fuck if the bullet went through to fucking Vietnam.

Right. He's dead. That's it. Like, what? But it just, it's just been frustrated. Everyone involved is just frustrating. Have you heard of this theory now they are trying to, like this is where it's just so, it gets so stupid. Like now they are saying, well, you know what?

It was a conspiracy. It was. But. Who's saying that? Like, there are theories out there. There are people saying. Oh, yeah. And I don't know where it originated, but I can guess.

They're saying, it was a conspiracy theory, but it was all leftists. it was not just Tyler but it was like all of them got to get okay so okay there was a conspiracy by some leftist idiots like whatever demonic people and wanted to kill Charlie and FBI is so dumb

that they don't know about it why would they cover up just a bunch of idiot devil worshipers like what are you talking about so what if here's one I don't even think I've thought of this but you're making me think of this now what if like they really fucked up here

and they should have known it was coming and they found out they should have known it was coming and now they were just trying to cover their tracks. Could be a case. Honestly, nothing would surprise me when it gets to FBI. Like, who said it to me? I think it was Tucker who said, like, you know how, like, you think FBI is corrupt, right? It's three times worse than you think. Like, it's how it is.

And it doesn't matter with it. It's Keshe Patal, Dempangino, like, they are still in the system. They cannot clean up anything. like it doesn't work that way and the major question here is though okay so we know they killed him do you have any like suspicious that they didn't and it was just tyler robinson like would you would you agree that it was a conspiracy the correct answer right now is technically i don't know but again the way they've said oh it's tyler robinson you just shot the bows the 3006 nothing else to see here again doesn't add up for me i

also think we're never going to know the truth on this, unfortunately. You know, I'm more optimistic about this. I think nobody can prove Kennedy's case anymore, even though I told you this when we started. I can give you all the names. Like, I'm pretty sure David could too and many others, but the proof won't be there because these people had, I mean, Bush had at the CIA. You think he's going to leave anything behind not shredded that implicates him or his family? Of course not, even though he's implicated. So here's what I think about Charlie. I think if people play their cards right on this one,

this might be the one and original case scenario where people can solve this case. Like, I think that it's doable. The fact that it was in the modern day and it's on video from at least four different angles. Right. And then, you know, a couple angles that have an SD card that was handing.

or the FBI you know it's different it's different and there there could be but it also the greatest way to cover something up is to create a chaotic scene exactly because it's easy to hide in chaos and I just you know that was such a we were on air when it happened I was in here with the religion business guys and we and we all we literally stopped to go the bathroom real quick right when it happened and thief was like oh my god and then we got right back on air and you know it's just the whole thing sent a chill down my spine because it's a real rubicon being crossed no matter no matter who did it it's a rubicon being crossed where someone with a extremely prominent following right and say in the political sphere whether you agree

with their opinions or not, was shot and killed for something in their beliefs. Right. And the fact that there are some people that can't see what an awful precedent that is in the modern age, it blows my mind. Right. You know, this is not something that should be shoved under the rug or forgotten. It should be investigated six ways to Sunday. It should be citizen investigated six ways to Sunday.

You know, we deserve to know the truth here. And we deserve to know the truth on everything. But it is, it is, this one was just, it was particularly spooky for me. Yeah. And you know what I want to say about this real quick? So, Charlie dies, right? And then these people never do by these people, again, like, CIA gets all the crap, but let's throw in NSA, like, they are no less than CIA when it gets to, you know, terrible shit.

And people completely disregard Navy intelligence and their, you know, paramilitary groups. be any of them really like it could be any of them working with whoever so the the interesting thing is they never do anything just for one outcome right so they when they do something with there it's like you know allowing 9-11 which i believe they allowed there was a pre pre-knowledge of it like there's we're not going to go into it but yeah that's definitely not so but with there it's that i rock word whatever it is right it's never for just one goal so it's like we're going to get this this and this out of it. Okay? So what did they get with Charlie? It's very simple. Charlie was bringing people together. People who were completely divided and like he was a like unifier or whatever you want

to call it. Right. So all of a sudden they they killed a figure that is very dangerous in the future, maybe not now, but in just like what was he 20 something? Like can you imagine? 32. Yeah. 31. Yeah. So like can you imagine when Charlie's like in his 60s? Like how much work he could have done? He was uniting people together. That's one. So definitely needs to go, right? Because U.S. cannot be united.

Then we think, you know, we become stronger standing together. A divided society is a compliant society. Yeah, exactly. Like divide and conquer. So that's one. Second, of course you win the whole Israel thing because he's about to divert like you kill him and then you can manipulate the narrative. And people say, well, you know,

People still don't, yeah, but they try to manipulate the narrative. Remember, Benjamin Netanyahu comes out right after this happens and starts talking about how Charlie loved Israel. What are you doing, dude? What are you doing? So they tried to hijack the narrative to make it seem like Charlie died as a whole Israeli lover or something like that, right? In reality, and Israel, we should not talk about Israel as a country. Let's talk about Benjamin Netanyahu.

It's a total different concept, okay? So Benjamin Netanyahu seems like plays it as they were friends. You know, I invited, blah, blah, blah. Try to hijack the narrative. Tell me what you think. Would he not be successful, if not for? Candice Owens, Tucker Carlson, and in a way, Megan Kelly. Take these three out of the occasion for a second.

What would we know today? that what, Charlie was what? Charlie was best friends with that on Yahoo. And so the narrative that he wanted to plant would be implemented. I think the most interesting quote or anecdote after Charlie's death that has gone largely ignored. It was actually what Dave Smith said. Oh, I don't know that. No.

Okay. So Dave Smith, I believe he went on like a stream with Sneco. A few days after Charlie's assassination. and Dave Smith was invited by Charlie to speak at a turning point conference where he was debating this other guy I think Josh Hammers his name who's a pro-Israel guy

on stage and that was towards the end of July I want to say and so Dave I believe had never been in person meeting Charlie Kirk at that point and so Dave has explained this and he's like you know I spent an hour with the guy and we start talking and we're getting into it

for like 15 minutes and he said the thing about your favorite political commentators, I hate to break it to you is most of them don't fucking read books. He's like, I read books. It was very clear within 15 minutes. Charlie reads books. We were talking about all different types of literature across the board. And so it got to a point where I was like, okay, all right, Charlie, you're a smart guy. Like you get it. You know what's going on here over in Israel. Why are you so on it? And Charlie, the way he described it, is Charlie went, no, listen, listen, my faith is my number one thing to me. The Israeli government protects the Christian sites. If the Muslims took over the country and it was a radical group that did it, they would probably destroy them.

And I care about those sites more than anything, which he said it just like that, according to Dave Smith. And then Dave was like, okay, well, can we do that without the genocide or whatever? he's like ah and he you know and he was like him and hon on it what was so clear to me though is that it was a complete nonchalant admission that charlie in my opinion for right or wrong this is just like it's seemingly a fact never gave a shit about like the things he expressed out loud about the israeli government or whatever or a claim to tie to the bible or whatever it was a transactional agreement for him for his faith where he prioritized it. And so it would make sense that someone of faith finally got to a point where he couldn't support a government's actions

where women and children were being killed to such an extent that he finally would have had a breaking point on that. And I think that is absolutely something that should be looked at here. And to your point, you know, Benjamin Netanyahu's PR, whatever, after Charlie's death was some of the worst executed PR I've ever seen in my life. And it's like, you know, as someone who's really studied that guy's whole life, for years until very recently, I'd say probably until the last two or three years, Benjamin Netanyahu as a politician was a William Jefferson Clinton-level politician, a fucking political. genius. He has completely lost his fastball. He has no concept of where he stands. He has less than zero self-awareness. He is making, it's like watching a fucking, you know, someone who's deaf conduct an orchestra. All due respect to death people. I don't mean a shot at you guys. I'm just saying like it's, and probably there's a great composer out there who was able to do that

well. But like, you know what I mean. It's like a disaster class at all times. And so, you cannot look at those two things and not say, well, is there a question to ask there? Sure, there is. Of course there is. He was clearly having a moral conundrum there. And what's funny is when I would have conversations with people over the last two years, really trying to talk about this issue and the insane, you know, arguments and nuances, whatever the fuck you want to call it in the Middle East conflict, I would always cite the October 12th. 12th, I believe it was October 12th, 2023 interview with Charlie Kirk

on PBD where he came out and said that shit. I remember the day he said that and I was like, that's the most pro-Israel young guy on the right side saying that. And remember when he like looked to the sky, he's like, I'm going to be careful how I say this.

They're going to ethnically claim. And I was just like, I remember watching that like yep. And yet you don't think that same guy would be wrestling with the more morality when there's two more years of, you know, a brutal war that's having some awful, awful downstream effects killing people? Of course he would. Of course he would. Can you imagine how brave like you have to be to be Charlie and say that? Like when you're surrounded by the people

that he was surrounded, which is like all pro-Israeli people, right? And all of a say, he knows, but he was no stupid guy. Okay. He knew that after that there would be a war. And he accepted that. Like, this is what I love about this shit. You asked me, like, why do you say they're going to call you Russian puppet? I don't care. Bring it on, bro. Bring it on.

Well, it's, it is, man, it's getting interesting out here. And I just, you know, it's hard for people, especially when you have just access to go online and get mad all the time. Right. You know, it's hard to put some things aside. But, you know, we also got to be, we got to be careful with how we talk about things. There was a tweet I saw today from Elon Musk that like, you know, is clearly just, he's typing quickly on his phone and not thinking about it. I don't want to sit here and like demonize him. But he's like, I believe the exact quote was civil war in Britain is inevitable. And it's like, dude, you're the, Second richest guy in the world with one of the largest followings in the world, a top five name recognition. Yeah, there's problems in Britain right now. I'm not denying that.

Right. That's not helping. Yeah. We got to be really careful with how we talk about these things because the people who, by the way, is Elon going to be out there on the front lines fighting that fucking war? Of course not. No, who won't? He'll be sitting playing with the Starlink while people play with it and die down below.

And I'm not ripping them for that. But like, you have to, we got to stop. fanning the flames on everything and I know that's hard and I know it's unpopular sometimes people get mad I've seen I've lived in a country that's gone from fucking George Floyd to Charlie Kirk I mean you want to talk about a fucking whip a roll and I've been doing this the whole time you know but like we got a you know look outside touch grass go to the go to the fucking bodega hold the door open for someone who looks like they might have different opinions from you

things are gonna be okay you know and and I believe in what this country's built on. I do think elites have let us down. I think the government and bureaucracy have let us down. I think that stuff should be called out and we'll do it and, you know, we'll have on people like you to do that for sure. But we also got to do it in a way where we're trying to fix the problem and not just, you know, open up the fucking artery here at all times and bleed out. I agree with you. I couldn't agree more. I think Elon's, knowing Elon's personality, probably did it because he's worried about it. And I don't think he did it maliciously. I agree. I don't think it was malicious. But, yeah, sometimes I agree with you that Stought needs to go into it.

Like, this is why talking about Charlie and I'm not going to continue more on this. But, like, I also believe that things, it just needs to be sad. You just have to think about how you want to word it, right? Because sometimes, like, me and you, like, got into argument in a good way. Like, we sometimes, like, we don't understand each other. And it's not that we didn't agree. We talked about this, like, on a bathroom break that. we agree, we just didn't understand each other most of the time, right?

Like about certain issues. Yeah. Elizabeth, thanks for being a good sport today. Thank you so much for inviting me. This has been a wide-ranging conversation. And sure, this was not my best day for sure, but you did a great job. And I appreciate you bringing all your perspectives here. Thank you. All right, everybody else, you know what it is?

Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace. Hey guys, thank you as always for watching this episode. If you have not already, please hit that subscribe button as well as that like button on the video. It is a huge, huge help for us in the algorithm. And I'll see you guys for the next episode.