Julian Dorey Podcast - Julian Dorey on Israel, his Mom, Joe Rogan, Elon Musk & Society's "SCAM"

Episode Date: April 23, 2025

WATCH THIS FULL PODCAST on Sagnik Basu's Channel: https://youtu.be/kOzVAF3HNHw?si=rzw-kaoj540_7u9i PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY INSTAGRAM (Podcast): https://www.instagram.com/juliandoreypodcast/ INSTAGRAM (Personal): https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://twitter.com/julianddorey JULIAN YT CHANNELS - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Clips YT: https://www.youtube.com/@juliandoreyclips - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Daily YT: https://www.youtube.com/@JulianDoreyDaily - SUBSCRIBE to Best of JDP: https://www.youtube.com/@bestofJDP ****TIMESTAMPS**** 0:00 - Intro 1:07 - Douglas Murray vs. Dave Smith, Woke Right 5:57 - Israel, AIPAC & Mossad 17:19 - US Gov, Antisemitism & Free Speech 19:42 - Trump’s relationship w/ Israel, Israeli Espionage, Criticizing Israel 24:29 - Julian & Tommy G’s thoughts on Independent Media’s Future 34:23 - Why Julian looks at everything 10 years out 38:51 - Elon Musk 43:41 - Julian on Joe Rogan & Elon Musk Relationship 49:14 - Paul Rosolie theory on long-form podcast downside 53:44 - “Society has sold Women a LIE” - Julian on “Society’s Plan” 59:02 - Julian on his MOM, Future Wife & Kids 1:02:37 - Economy preventing women from being full-time moms 1:05:49 - The College Degree Scam? 1:09:48 - The Pandemic Effects on Children & Adults Socially 1:18:01 - Julian wants to be #1 in the World CREDITS: - Host & Producer: Julian Dorey Julian Dorey Podcast - Special Episode w/ Sagnik Basu Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

you have this thing i'm very passionate but you have this thing where you're a kid and you're told all right go get decent grades work hard in school by the way have your extracurriculars you know be good at a sport you could stick it on a fucking resume get that gpa in college so you're set up junior year you take your sat classes make sure you get at least you know 12 50 or whatever you get into a decent school so that your fucking parents can throw you a graduation party and tell all your friends you're not fucking retarded then Then you go to college, you go there, you drink, smoke, and fuck, but you get your work done, you have a decent GPA, and you start doing those internships

when you're a sophomore and junior in college, and then boom, you come out, and you go into a respectable industry to get a respectable job so you can start making money. And this is something that men were always sold, because it's like, okay, we come out, we do that. This is like our default setting. Right, right.

Then we start to find the girl maybe at 25, 26, 27, but we're working our ass off. We get married at 29, 30. We start popping out kids at 32. Maybe we're a VP of some fucking marketing or whatever it is. Now we're making 120 K a year in New York. That's enough to fucking walk my dog, take a piss and clean it up with, you know, whatever. Nail to the team.

But I'm saying. This is my second time listening to this. Hey, guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. Like you said, we've already had fucking five news cycles since he got in here. And that's that's being conservative. There's been more than that.

You know, things change very quickly. And also people can get caught up in the moment. There is – we were talking about before we got here while we were all recording the Patreon episode. Talking about this Douglas Murray, Dave Smith back and forth that happened with Joe Rogan yesterday. It's like there is such thing as like the woke right. Oh, my God. Are you kidding me? Big time.

Jesus Christ. Woke right ink. We have a term for it. You have a term for it? Yeah. Who invented it? I don't care who invented it, but it pisses me off. India wins again. You brought that up.

I don't know. Like from a – like I'm an immigrant and i know douglas is from the uk as a fundamental rule it pisses me off that he's coming here and questioning your ability all things free speech it's like oh you why are you talking about it if you haven't been to israel by that logic you the journalism class shouldn't exist right yeah like like what is that logic what are you talking about yeah i'm not even talking about israel palestine anything specific just like that logic in itself is just so that's actually a british logic i know that logic because i went to school that i know that logic it's like oh you actually have to go there and you have to

talk to the people you didn't go to ethan i And I was like, okay, like, okay, you're not a time traveler. You can at least travel. And it's like, relax. Like, that's not how, like, discourse, journalism, news, like, works. You do your research. You let people know what you think about it. And if people like it, they go with it. If they don't like it, they let you know and we back and forth with debate.

Yes. And I think beyond that, though, what he really blew it with is he had a chance to bring up more what I'm getting at. Like you have – you have on one hand, you have that elitism class that exists across the spectrum, right? And Douglas Murray outed himself if he wasn't outed already as clearly in that class regardless of – in his case, he's more of a conservative guy or whatever. Quick point there. Just being part of that is not a pejorative. What do you mean? Being part of the elite automatically is not a minus point for me. However, if you use that point as a cudgel against people like Dave Smith or let's call it the alternate media, what have you, then I have a problem.

Agreed. So you're not labeling people on just the circumstances of the environment they're from you're labeling people on how they behave when they're put into an environment where that can be something or not correct yeah i like that i agree 100 he obviously was a part of the camp that said i'm of the elite you've never been you've never been you know he was so like it was it was like it was like a dramatic play watching him go at dave smith with that and dave's just a normal fucking dude and and douglas can't he almost can't compete with that but what douglas was bringing up when he was defining the woke right was you have people who now got so pissed at the left that they're questioning and things that happen with establishments and things like that righteously so we're now they're questioning everything that ever happened and they're using like a confirmation bias oh my god

worst boogie man of everything and what sucks is that douglas went about this in the most condescending fucking way that he completely blew a great opportunity that by the way dave smith and joe rogan probably would have agreed with him on a on some of those issues maybe not all of it, but they might've even been like, wow, actually, yeah, no, there is something to be said there. But he had to walk in there and say, oh, I'm the king of this court now. And unfortunately he whiffed. And so now things like that will continue to fester and people will take their meaning of life and define it on their favorite tweeters online.

And these tweeters say these things that are objectively crazy, and they'll throw things out that are like evidence that aren't really evidence, but then it spreads really fast because 280 characters has the ability to do that because no one's reading the fucking thread. Let me use the Volk right point to segue to immigration and what's happening right now. Okay. When does fast grocery delivery through Instacart matter most? When your famous grainy mustard potato salad

isn't so famous without the grainy mustard. When the barbecue's lit, but there's nothing to grill. When the in-laws decide that, actually, they will stay for dinner. Instacart has all your groceries covered this summer. So download the app and get delivery in as fast as 60 minutes. Plus enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. I was totally in favor when Trump is like, I mean, I live fucking five minutes away from the Roosevelt Hotel. So I know what the fuck is going

on across America. Tell people what that is. Roosevelt Hotel in New York City is a place where they house illegal immigrants. And if you do not live in New York City, what's going on in the city is you cannot get on the train without seeing some illegal lady who I have 100% sympathy for because she's trying to do the best with her kid on her back in like a satchel situation. And she's selling like orbit or what have you so that has been going on for two three years yeah joe's buying it but you see something like that and you're like okay something's got to break and trump comes and he talks about this we got a deport of people who came here illegally, crimes, what have you. However, you are starting with fucking students in Columbia who are writing essays, not criticizing America, criticizing a different country.

Yes. How's that? Like, how is that on the priority list? It's crazy. And unfortunately, we were also talking about this, but it's like, my second biggest disappointment with that podcast was that it wasn't six hours because they were just getting warmed up at three.

Oh, yeah. And they did not get to discuss these things. No. They were debating about authority. Right. That is enough. They didn't get to discuss any of the intelligence aspects and intelligence wars that go on. There's certainly a huge topic that everyone in that room is versed in.

And they didn't get a chance to discuss how – what a boomerang opposite effect what you just mentioned has on society. Yeah. how what a boomerang opposite effect what you just mentioned has on society yeah when society sees you know you being labeled the minute you give in some cases a very righteous criticism of another country let alone your own in what's supposed to be a free speech society and that's being legislated you are now going to create more of those protests that you see at columbia university and stuff like that you are going to create the unreasonable people to come out of the woodwork with a reasonable complaint. And I've seen this over and over again. It has the opposite effect.

When you put Tom Brady and Snoop Dogg on a fucking Super Bowl commercial to yell about this issue, it's a Streisand. It's a similar idea to like the Streisand effect. Like, okay, you're telling everyone to stop being anti-Semitic. 99% of the people watching this have never had that thought. That has the same effect, which was the BLM lecturing. Yes. Took the words out of my mouth. And that is problematic because again, like you want to talk about free speech. Once again, does it piss me off that kids in school, born flags, what have you? Yes. Is it okay for them to do that given all things First Amendment America?

100% yes. And on top of that, you layer, you're not, once again, deporting people for criticizing America. You're deporting people for criticizing a different country. Yes. What is that precedent? Why are you taking, like, orders from a lobbyist group for a different country? You're literally bending over backwards. And this is where I think we do have to look inward, actually. This is an unpopular opinion, but I've given it a bunch. Everyone yells about APAC and

everything. And I hear you. And we're talking about the American Israel Political Action Conference, which does lobby a lot of people on behalf of the country. APAC exists to lobby on behalf of a country of whatever it is, 10 million people to try where they have a lot of people on behalf of the country. APAC exists to lobby on behalf of a country of whatever it is, 10 million people to try, where they have a lot of countries around them who don't like them, right? To try to lobby for their interests. They're doing exactly what I would do in their position. And they're using our system to be able to do it. My problem is that we have not changed that system in America to not allow other countries, regardless of who they are, to interfere with our politics. We have to have a serious conversation about why have we not done

legislation? And immediately people say, because AIPAC's paying everyone and they'll fucking get them out of office if they vote against this. I don't think that's actually true anymore. I think we've seen, for example, like Thomas Massey's come out and been insanely against AIPAC in Israel. They pumped whatever it was. I don't want to give a number, but it was millions of dollars into a campaign against him, and his numbers went up. I'm not saying that's going to happen across the board, but we need to have a serious conversation about why we let that kind of thing happen here because they're going to keep doing that to try to protect the interests of their country. That's exactly what I

would let's stay on that. Let's let's expand on that. Why? I'm asking you why they do that. Yeah. Just as like a refresher for people who don't really give a shit about a pack and how lobbying works. Yeah. So let me start off by saying this, because unfortunately, you have to qualify things these days otherwise people will just hear everything all one way or another i don't like benjamin netanyahu i do not like smotrich obviously the other fucking dude why is his name eluding me right now i talk about him all the time ben gavir is not in the government

anymore that's recent but guys like that are fucking scumbags so you know i i have a severe problem with the current israeli government i do think there are certainly at least aspects of what you could call a genocide going on in gaza at this point and i i think that's terrible i also think terror groups are bad i think kamas i have no problem with those guys getting wiped off the face of the earth i just don't like seeing a bunch of kids go with it too. So all that aside, the reason Israel feels the need to have to do that, where I will empathize with them, is the fact that it is true since their founding, which was controversial in 1948, that many people in that area of the world don't want them to exist. Now, they don't necessarily help their situation when they perpetuate those feelings by doing things, I don't know, preemptively and, you know, certainly brazenly

in the region to foment dislike for generations to come. That said, I understand that they do live in a constant state of danger. Therefore, when you have a friend as big and bad and powerful as the United States, where by the way, some of the people who are the same ethnicity that live in your country live here and have some sway too. Yeah, you're going to go use that. And when that democratic system has a loophole that allows people from another country to come in literally openly with the interest of that country to pay politicians and help get them into office in exchange for them clearly doing what you want to do that's going to be forwarding the interest of your country,

of course they're going to do that. So I get where they're coming from. I empathize with that position. Now looking at it as an American, because this is my country over here, no disrespect to them. I don't want to see people bomb them off the face of the earth or anything. But there are things that are happening in them lobbying our Congress that Russia and China and you now have a whole like east exactly exactly it's like by the way we did we did a mission in early 2020 january 2020 and took out solomani now from guys i talked to back then there were people trump made that decision there were a lot of people around him like what the fuck are you doing because they're like yeah we don't like this guy he's terrible he should be taken out but like are you fucking kidding me? This is borderline an act of war. What did Iran do about it?

Nothing. Nothing. They did fucking nothing. They blinked. They realized we can't do anything about it. Right. So when you are Israel now and you are trying to, and they've been doing this for years,

they've been dating back to the 90s. They've been trying to get the U S to go to war with Iran. You can run the tape in 2002 of Netanyahu fucking lobbying our Congress on C-SPAN going, you must go to war with Iraq. You must go to war with Iran. They are, they are an enemy to America who we are your best friend. It's like, well, we know what happened with the Iraq war. What about the other half of that? And you're still pushing that 21, 22 years later? Like, I'm going to have a couple people in here that are of Iranian origin to talk about this. And I really do want to understand like what the thought process is there. But if there's a way to avoid war, I want to do that. And when another country may be interfering with that, I don't give a fuck

who they are. I don't like that. And I don don't want to see that why do you think this whole quote-unquote loophole um like why do you think israel is the only country which gets to quote-unquote exploited it's a great question because america does have think about this does have like familial ties with a lot of other countries across the world however this level this level of quote unquote symbiotic government doesn't exist anywhere else. I think so the places I would think of the most for you would think they would have a ton of sway would be Britain, Canada, and Australia. And the most obvious logic there is that I'm not even including New Zealand here, but you can include that too. These are part of G7 countries. Yes. And they're English speaking countries. Canada is right on our border. We never in war with them. We get along with them and everything. It's like, you would think that

they would have a lot of influence. Now they do have influence in other ways. They don't necessarily have lobbying organizations, but there are things you and I both- Yeah. Yeah. You and I both. There's a lot of deals that happen behind the scenes and stuff like that that taxpayers don't see. That said, I think a big part of it is that Israel from their creation was aggressive about this because of the time in which they were created as well and the controversy around which they were created, where they were created, on the holiest land of all, where there were people who are displaced technically from not technically, literally from where they live. Right. So I think that they got in there upfront and they also, I don't want to say this the wrong way, but there was a generated sympathy

due to what happened in world war two to the Jewish people, which actually can be a separate kind of thing necessarily from like some of the people say who lived in Palestine, but it's a part of their same ethnicity. Yeah. And family members of theirs were wiped off the earth or tried to be fully exterminated off the earth and millions of them died. So there was a worldwide understanding of that for a while. And I think they use that to kind of backdoor something like this and set up something like AIPAC where our system allows

them to do that, where other countries may not have had to be that deliberate about it. You know, Britain's an empire. They're not worried about not existing tomorrow. Yeah, they're worried about losing some of their empire over the years, but like in the 1960s, they're fine, right? Israel at the time is maybe, don't quote me on this, maybe at the time they have like a 5 million population. In the 60 60s they're 20 years removed from almost being exterminated off the earth like there's a fucking desperation there so we're gonna set up a pack we're gonna do this shit and yeah then then the the obvious point is that where they need to be respected on their skill is that they are they do have the best spy operations in the world

and you could say they probably have had that since for decades at least and they are very very adept and very brazen at being able to get their way in the espionage underworld and we have had a lot of people of different perspectives let's, who come from our intelligence community, who have been in my studio, and whether it's on camera or off camera, say the same things about it and talk about how much Israel was brazen about that. And they didn't like that. The intelligence community of, you know, say Mossad, and it's more than Mossad. There are other organizations there too, but you know, it's the easy one to talk about. And like CIA didn't get along.

As far as I know, they don't really get along. And that's interesting. Post-October 7th, everything that was going on in the colleges of the states and people like Bill Ackman were like anyone and everyone who is part of this protest and is part of an American taxpayer-funded university need to be ID'd and there needs to be consequence of it. And what is happening today is a sixth, seventh order consequence of that. How do you think we should, if you're thinking about like everything from a free speech point of view, because the problem of labeling kids who have visas in schools and are partaking in Palestine protests, what have you, and labeling them as domestic terrorists or what have you, if you do that, then you have to extend that logic to American citizens who are also partaking with that. And that's where the free speech debate comes into play. Because then you're just using the domestic terrorist label to deport people who you do not like or whose views you don't like. How do you think we should actually think about free speech and domestic terrorism in this context? Well, we also shouldn't immediately market everyone that we decide we don't like,

that we're going to deport as a Hamas supporter. Let's just start right there because there are people who that's not even what they believe or at the very least what they're leading with. They're more like free Palestine. And I understand that this is a very hot button issue. There are children being shot directly through the heart over there right now by sniper rifles. This is a real thing. And no, Douglas Murray, I didn't have to go there to fucking know that. You want to pull up all the evidence and have this conversation. Like, yes. Do I think Douglas Murray makes a fair point about the fact that we seem to just take whatever the the gaza health ministry says is the numbers of what's happening yes that's a fair point because there is some interference with

hamas certainly with within that but does that mean it's not happening does that mean that like it's okay that all these people are fucking dying two years coming up on two years after october 7th when hamas's organizational structure has long been decimated, it's not completely gone. I'll give Israel that. Like, there's still some around. But, like, you are creating the new Hamas terrorists. You're creating them. And it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And to go back to your question of, like, what to do here, you know, God, it's so strange because a lot of Trump's base is really not fucking with israel right now especially younger people like like people are like oh like most republicans are pro-israel what i was like have you talked to anyone the ones holding public office are yeah yeah like the authority wise yeah like but from uh thermostatic politics point of view, if you like survey most people who are on the right, even under the age of 40, they're like, maybe this is like not our thing. It's where you have the Bloods and Crips meme for the left and right. People are like, yeah, we agree on this one. Like this is getting a little fucking crazy. And yet there is this cognitive dissonance with the right – not all the people on the right but with many people on the right where they just conveniently ignore that Trump is the most pro-Israel president in the history of America. Ever.

And this is really saying something. It's not close. Yeah. It's not close. So why is that? You know, and I would have loved to see them discuss that more on that podcast because that is one place that I would have loved to see Douglas Murray's answers or trying to write away things as conspiracy theories or whatever. That clearly there's more to them than just it being some fucking theory you know the reality is in this world and this is how it is this isn't just israel it's it's everyone there are some nasty things that happen in the underworld that involve espionage across

spy organizations if you think that your favorite or that's even a fucking thing but your your fucking country's spy organization is not doing some fucked up things then you're not living in reality because there's weird moral questions that they decide to answer in one second underground where they just weigh what's worse and they go with the one that's least worse but yeah are there things that you know haven't have involved israel that that could be used to curry favor across democratic and republican politicians that you know could could have just gotten caught up in that absolutely and the fact that that's not a conversation that's ever been had is crazy because we have it about

every other country we talk about that about every other country people are talking about chinese spies all the time people are love talking talking about Russia spies and the KGB. You think they fucking did everything that ever happened, but if people talk about Britain and some of the things that have happened in history there where they spy on us too. So why don't you talk about it with Israel? It's a very, very fair question.

And like, you know, we're going to have some people in here from both sides of the issue coming up that I'm, I'm excited to talk with. And when it comes to the people who are pro-Israel, that will be probably their sticking point. I got to go with the people that are more anti-Israel. I'm going to have to ask them about the realities of like Israel having their existence threatened because there are so many people around there that don't like them.

They should be – they overuse the fuck out of this line like israel has a right to defend themselves they say that about anything but there are scenarios where they do have a right to defend themselves because there are real things that happen like they did have a right to respond to october 7th yeah sure 100 you know but like where do you take that you know if i'm going to criticize this is what's crazy if i'm going to criticize my government about how we handled iraq my own government right i don't fuck with Dick Cheney and George Bush. I wouldn't want to be associated with them. Then I can absolutely criticize another government that's doing that. Like who – I think Kiriakou was in here explaining Netanyahu has never even won with a plurality.

There's so many fucking parties over there. He wins with 27 percent. He's highly unpopular in his own country. So how many people in the country even support what's going on a lot of them don't they all want to exist they don't want to be bombed they may be like we need to limit maybe some palestinians coming into our borders because we're paranoid about it as a human being i understand that it's not ideal but i get that there's a huge difference between that though and saying let's just fucking kill everybody. And I don't know why

I don't know why the average people who have a clear opinion where they're pro-Israel can't at least see that part. Because by the way, I'm pro-Israel existing. I'm pro-Palestine existing though too. You can't say that.

So as far as the pro-Israel people go, I'm a fucking anti-Semite because I believe in a two-state solution. But, you know, and then the Palestinian people will be like, "'So you think that that desecration of a state "'should even exist?' I'm like, you can't win here. Given our proximity and what happened with all things candace and daily

wire i think there's a really good opportunity to talk about the quote-unquote alternate right-wing media ecosystem and the state of it because for the longest time it kind of happened as a consequence of the liberal stronghold in media where fox news was the only quote-unquote alternate voice um which people had access to but right now there's a really well-established pipeline of all things right-wing content online yeah and one of their biggest quote-unquote um you know way of getting people to pay attention is that we are the alternate voice we are what you will not get do you think that still holds true given the fact uh and i don't want to say like

oh daily wire is too big then that's why like they're just as as good or as bad as the mainstream media because i don't think being big is like a barometer of whether or not you are mainstream or not um but to your point you just said no but i want to question like first of all why no and second of all what do you think is the goal of that industry as of now you you and i let's start with the first part and then if i can remember the second part we'll come back but you'll bring me back to it you and i met through our mutual friend tommy g a while back and tommy g and i were on the phone i'll say recently discussing this because you know he's he's not in the podcasting lane but he's in the documentarian and telling real stories. He's a smart guy. Fucking brilliant.

And he's someone who is truly, truly independent, and I am too. And we are obsessed with never losing that about ourselves. Just so with the definitions, right, I just want to define what independent means in this context, which means that you are not funded by anybody else. Anyone is not paying your bills vis-a-vis all of this. You are pulling your own weight through ads, through memberships.

Not just that. I'm going to take it a whole nother level. We are also not politically affiliated. Correct. You're political affiliation. No one is telling editorial point. That's the more important part. There are a lot of people who are calling themselves independent right now.

Their actions have proven that they're not. Period. We have defined what independent means. Now go back to Tom. Independent means that if you are going to call yourself an independent journalist, you're a journalist, which means, yeah, I'm going to hold you to the standard that I hold myself. When I go down and I vote, which I vote fucking four blocks from here at Center City, for every position down to fucking dog catcher, I do my civic duty.

I go in and I vote and I write journalist abstain. There is no affiliation whatsoever we know how pendulums of societies are we know how things go we know how a human being is going to have biases and is going to feel certain push and pulls and whatever but i am going to maintain my ability to be able to call things like i see it with having no skin in the game of the people that i call it about and there are a lot of people right now who are still out there now daily wire by the way is not one of them daily wire says what they are they are a right-wing conservative conservative block and i will defend them on that i know they've had a lot of issues over there with other stuff that's some of that seems indefensible but i will defend guys like that on that type of thing. I will defend the Sean Ryans of the world and the Patrick Bet-Davids of the world because they're very clear about where they stand.

But it's not to sit here and like call out everyone and whatever. I don't think that's what this is. I think we're in the middle of a cultural phenomenon right now. There are guys who have way bigger platforms than I do and way more things being thrown at them than I do. So who the fuck am I to say how I would handle all those things? But I think what Tommy and I were talking about is we got to be really fucking careful about how things look just as much as how they are. And do I think it's a great look that like a lot of independent media people are going to the inauguration? because i know that if you know

fucking anderson cooper we're standing right there next to kamala harris getting sworn in he'd be getting drilled and he deserved to be now do i think that that my guys are the same as that no i think joe rogan's great i think theo vaughn's fucking great right i enjoy the nelt guys and they actually also kind of come at it from a very clear lens, by the way. But like the way things are going to be long term and how things can be labeled is very, very, very important to me. And the whole independent media thing just was a major part, if not the most important part of the fucking presidential election cycle.

So now that underdog status is a lot less underdog. And there are more eyeballs on us than there are on the fucking mainstream media. And if we become the same things that mainstream media became, even if it's not as egregious or as bad or whatever, just how it can be marketed, we are going to lose people. And we're going to deserve to. So now to take it a little more towards exactly where you were going, let's even look at just the right wing media ecosystem though, of independent media, where it's supposed to be like, people don't control what you say. You know, it's still just dudes talking in a studio. The real deal. Right. Now you look at Daily Wire. Now you can criticize them because it's like,

now there's clearly people in back offices saying, all right, we're going to make a show that does this. We're going to have a hard stop at this time. And they talk in corporate speak and suddenly they're controlling what the narratives are. And when people say things that they don't like, oh, you're out. That's a problem. And I don't care what side of the aisle you're on. That's a huge, huge problem. And, you know, if I were, if I were a liberal strategist or a conservative strategist right now involved in either one of the quote-unquote independent media worlds, meaning let's label this part of the level of independent media, meaning just something that's not one of the mainstream networks that's funded by a public company

and things like that. It's more of a small brand type idea. Then I would be having a hard look in the mirror about the freedom I give the people on my platform to run their show and do what they want to do if we're truly going to be independent then everyone's got to say what they're going to say and you know we'll deal with how with how the chips fall the problem is the lawyers get involved and the lawyer and i'll defend the lawyers here it's it's just a shitty way that the system works their job is to find fucking risk everywhere and identify it and try to prevent that. And they're not thinking about like how this looks or what the cultural war is going to be. That's not how they think.

They're thinking like is this going to – Risk mitigation. That's what they're paid for. Right. And so it's a complicated world and I'm not going to sit here. I don't have the responsibilities that those places have. They're fucking huge. Correct.

Right? So I'm very careful about throwing stones from glass houses, but like we do have to be careful in independent media about how things go. To that point, I am so, so, so lucky that when I first moved to D.C., Sagar became my mentor. Yeah. And everything that I know about journalism and media was through his lens because I was 20 years old.

And Tucker used to be in the office and Tucker taught us everything that I today know about what is actual anti-establishment way of thinking. And obviously Sagar became independent. He started his own show. And I observe very closely beyond his political take how he handles all these vibe shift because he could have easily played the game

of i'm a conservative media host and now whatever so he didn't do that it's like no no i'm a journalist i'm a capital j fucking journalist i like that guy however i lean this way because of what my temperament is and what my principles are however i'm going to act like a journalist and there's a difference and that needs to exist. I went to journalism school. People stop used to being proud of whatever. I genuinely like the fourth estate. And people who are in this vertical, and that expands to people like you,

people who are actually doing their due diligence of covering the news and covering everything that's going on. And I think that having that principle matters. And to Tommy's point, cosmetics matter so fucking much. Unfortunately they do. Because it's so easy to get lost in that, oh, we won this fight after four years of censorship

and all of this and COVID and all of this. Now it's our time to win. So it's kind of saying like, fuck you to all things establishment culture and kind of basking in the glory of it by going to the White House and what have you. However, again, you're looking at the timeline in a super myopic way.

Things change overnight. And you want to tell your audience when all of this was going on, even though I told this, this, this, and this, I was still doing my job. That's correct. It's the Bill Belichick code. Do your fucking job.

Do your job. That's all that matters. And going back to, again, all canada stuff and daily wire stuff it bothered me so much that even journalists or like podcast people were in there it's like okay fine you want to have fun that's good but i'm not getting your news my news from you and that's where i draw the line because everybody's like oh do we need mainstream news now now that we are listening to Thiel Van, now that we are listening to, I don't know, Sean Ryan, what have you?

My point is, when something like 9-11 happens, when something like October 7 happens, I want to turn the TV on. I want to see what the fuck is going on. And that is the value prop of, let's call it mainstream media, what have you. Because at the end of the day,

they are still the people who are going out there to aggregate the news, right? Joe Rogan is not going to send like an Africa correspondent when war's breaking into Africa. So we still need those people who are doing reporting and they need to be trained. And that's where like my defense of capital J journalism comes in

because I know what that system- So how do we fix the system? You're saying, how do we make it better? Correct. I am totally for the fact that anyone who comes on tv after 6 p.m or 7 p.m who has commentary and who has takes what have you and that can be like someone like laura ingram that can be someone like um don lamont he's obviously independent now lamont uh anderson cooper i totally want that kind of content which is is commentary, parasocial content, to exist in your lane because people trust you more.

So that's fine. But I still want people to do the news. Yes. And those people should never go to the White House no matter who is in there. Yes. And I don't want to be – again, I don't want to throw stones from glass houses because, I mean, I'm a small potato. I didn't have opportunities like that. Who knows how I handle it when I do. I would like to think that I would have maintained the

independence of being like, all right, how this looks is going to outweigh how this actually is because like, I'm, I'm obviously a very flawed guy. I make a lot of mistakes and you know, there's things that have happened behind the scenes where if I had made other decisions, we'd be a lot bigger and more successful than we are but i made the wrong calls and i gotta live with that but if there's one thing i i am betting on myself julian pause i that's why i respect you because you could have anyone can grift their way to fame today and the game is so mathematical to play it's so fucking obvious like how do you get that level it is so fucking easy to play the grit game it takes chutzpah to actually stick to what you want to stick to and that is one of the reasons i respect

what you do i respect what tommy does and i think long game matters in that case i do too and i appreciate you saying that because the one thing i would like to think when we're sitting here 15 years from now and looking back on hopefully more success than failure that I will have gotten right is I have always looked at things 10 years out. How does this play 10 years out? And that's not to be calculated or change what I say or change my opinions to match anything. It's more to say, where am I reacting to the emotion of the moment versus the logic of the long term? And I'm an emotional guy first. I got to check that at the door. I mean, you can fucking see it if you run this podcast back, I'm getting a little emotional

and stuff. And that's okay. But when that is driving all of your actions and how you build your show and build your quote unquote platform, then you're going to run into problems. And so I am constantly like, I wish we didn't have to worry about how things looked to be frank. Cause I don't think that like personally on a human, human level, I don't think that should matter, but I realized I can't fight city hall. That is how the world works, how, how things can be spun and how they can look do matter. So I think about those things and I try to be careful and measured in how I, in, in how, you know, I'll handle some of those doors as they open. And I think sometimes, you know, like you said, and I really do appreciate you saying that I could be, I could be very wealthy right now. It would have been very easy.

I could have just picked the side on some issues and fucking done my thing. You know how I can do a video, turn the camera around and do my thing. But I've never done that because that's not me and that's not how I feel. And I believe that there – even if the things that get clicks in the short term are the extremes and are the most crazy opinions, I believe there are a lot more rational people out there than we give credit for in society who look at things with nuance. And I think that over time, they will continue to find me.

And at some point we will cross that escape velocity point to where people are like, you know what? I don't always agree with Julian, which I hope to God you don't always agree with me, by the way, that'd be a problem if you did. But there's just a level of like real actual conversation that happens on on his show and i can judge how i want to judge and move the

fuck on with my life afterwards if people are saying that five years from now and we're building an audience like crazy then i'll know i've done my job the right way let's um go back to the white house real quick because I'm super interested. I've never been. It's not that glamorous. First of all, anyone can go there like my parents did. A couple of days ago. You can just go talk to your embassy and you can just...

Just walk in? You have to get the tickets and you have to pass clearance. I ran in and they were like, whoa! You have to pass clearance so they'll definitely look at your... That might be an issue. Yeah, so you have to pass clearance. I ran in and they were like, whoa! You have to pass clearance, so they'll definitely look at your videos. That might be an issue. You have to pass clearance. Don't give me the risk. Don't do that. DC is such a

I don't know, people who haven't been into the Capitol Hill area, they think it's a glamorous world. It's not. It's so unromantic. I've spent a decade there. It's just so i never thought it was to be clear yeah no you know like when you come like when you're in middle school high school whatever you do a little capitol hill tour and you see all these shiny things and i

totally get the glamour of it but once you live there and once you spend your entire life there you kind of see the facade of it and it goes away so so quickly but i want to go to the right-wing coalition right now and the first time we saw a fracture in there was during the immigration debate during christmas uh which is i mean let's call it the bannon right and let's call it the elon musk right what have you how long do you think this lasts? Do you think that's going to be like a happy marriage or an ugly divorce? Because post-Wisconsin, Elon looked pretty embarrassing. And right now, the reason I don't talk about it is because the average Trump voter, in my opinion, not the average, the median Trump voter is a Bannon guy. Right? is a Bannon guy, right? However, from the cosmetics of it, Trumpism is like a campaign, is like a coalition of Marc Andreessen,

Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy, and all these people who are much more, much less risque than the Bannon faction. So my question is long-term, how do you see this playing out? Because as of now, they did needed a white tent to win the election. However, now that you have won the election

who's actually who has the steering wheel what do you think because this you were you were talking about this some you were talking about this last week and what's that with the whole elon thing do you think that this blows up i i mean i i definitely have a lot got a bad taste in my mouth with him recently yeah it's just kind of just cringy what is well you know he no one wants a guy he can't be in government because of all of his businesses however he's going to be cashing in on all the government contracts and he's kind of just parading around town like a dunce honestly so i'm concerned because the moment they butt heads it's going to look bad because in the past

you'd have politicians i'll i'll pull it back it's very unprecedented because in the past whether it was a monarchy whether it was was sitting presidents, you could buy power through people and you can have people in your pocket. But for the first time ever, we're going to see a stage being set where Elon Musk is going to be this high-level bureaucrat who's not going to just be in the pockets of people. He's going to own the actual infrastructure of what our future is about to be built on and that's what worries me is because the moment they butt heads and we're seeing it happen already what does that look like you know yeah i i i worry about that too because it's like you want to think the best you want to think elon wants all the best things Like I for one love the concept of Doge. I think it's incredible.

Like, oh my god, going in and trying to clean up government waste. Amazing. Yeah. I think you cut your balls off when you then, you know, still kind of like right-wing meme troll on the platform that you own. Yeah, it's based. Everything is so based. While claiming to do this. It is so icky.

Yeah. Right? Oh my god. And like I've always – I've had this line for years you and i had this line in fucking episode 132 when we were recording three years ago and i've had it since the very beginning it's it's like i'm a fan of elon yeah i love him trying to get us to mars i think rockets are cool as shit i think like building sustainable cars is as cool as shit but i'm not a fan boy of anybody let alone him meaning i am not going to

sit here guzzle his fucking balls every time he says something because oh that's the cool tech bro saying this thing right i'm going to look at things the same way i look at everything else when someone else says something objectively and i'm going to say okay things the same way I look at everything else when someone else says something objectively. And I'm going to say, OK, it doesn't mean he's all wrong about something, but it also doesn't mean he's all right about something. So like I can look at something like Doge and say, love that idea. Don't love the optics of one of Trump's biggest funders running this who is also getting, as Joe points out, huge government contracts and has, he's a human being, right? So if you really want to hit the left on something, they deserve to be hit on this. They had Elon Musk. Oh yeah. And they pushed him the fuck away. Yeah. And they deserve a

fuck ton of blame on that because he tried to be reasonable for a long time. And as a human being who got punched over and over again, he finally got punched enough that he started punching hard back. And what happens as human beings goes right back to that equal but opposite reaction. When we start punching back, it's a good feeling. I don't know if you've ever done it, but like it's a very good feeling when you do that and you start to say, I want to do that some more. You know, I might buy this platform here and then I can punch back on this platform. And then it gets harder and harder and harder. And then you get skin in the game.

Now he funded the incoming president and everything. And things start to get foggy. And one of the things I would love to, if I ever met Joe Rogan, ask him about off camera. Not on camera. Just off camera, not on camera, just off camera is to try to understand what it's like to be so tied to someone like that. Because here you have the richest guy in America, Elon Musk, who, as I already stated, does some really cool things. And he's an interesting guy who has the biggest modern media moment in history on Joe Rogan's platform in September, 2018, that Joe Rogan was the biggest podcaster already at that point. And he was big.

That took Joe Rogan from like a governor to a president. I mean, he went stratas, stratospheric overnight. And so they are tied together and they became very good friends through that. And then Elon, to his his credit had some really good takes as the pandemic was he was one of the first guys to come out because he was funding you know some of these fucking what were they called the the gubernatorial races no the machines that people breathe on no the the things that people breathe why can't i think of it yeah what the we already forgot the fucking the breath the lung the breathalyzer not the no they put him on the the thing for the test life support whatever ventilators ventilators that's

it yeah yeah like he was one of the first guys coming out because he was funding the ventilator saying yo this is actually killing people yeah right and he got hit for that you know and so he had good takes on stuff. And then we all know what the machine tried to do to Joe Rogan, where he was much more right than they were. I'm not saying he was 100% right, but fuck, he was at least 80% right. Yeah. You know?

And they attacked him like with lies and smears over and over and over again and tried to tell people what he was. They changed the color of his skin on CNN to try to make it seem like he was more sick than he was. Like it was really sadistic shit. So during this whole time, he's also developing that friendship and he and Elon are continuing to bond over things that they are objectively at least mostly correct about. If not all the way correct on certain issues. And then it translates into a presidential election where a bunch of shit happens. The fucking guy almost gets killed on the campaign trail.

And then in the moment, that's when Elon endorsed him publicly. Right after he got shot. You're emotional during that time. We were all like, wow, that's crazy. And objectively speaking, that was a badass moment from Trump. It's one of the wildest moments I've ever seen. I get goosebumps to this day. I still get goosebumps.

I know exactly what I was. Yeah. Like when I watch it it you can't fake how he responded to that that motherfucker was about it you know what i mean and i was and that's a really really cool thing i will never take that from him but you know now all these things have have and it's like it's like the the the train was going down the rails getting faster and faster and faster and faster and faster and faster and faster and it just keeps going all the way into an election to the point that the day before the election, Elon Musk is coming on for three hours screaming, we're never going to have an election again if Trump

doesn't win. And then really getting Joe to endorse him on his own platform, by the way. I mean, that was a real thing. Joe put out a tweet. I don't have it in front of me, but Joe put out a tweet when he put out that podcast on X that night before the election where he said then the tweet became Elon makes what I believe is the strongest case yet for yet for Trump. And I'm with him all the way. And to be clear, yes, that is an endorsement of President Trump. Now you have the owner of a platform, the richest guy in America going on the biggest podcast platform in the world the day before the election to make his case, which he's allowed to do. I'm not blaming that. And then basically pressuring his friend to say something that Joe's never done that, as far as I know. He's never, like, he kind of endorsed Bernie Sanders

during primary, but Bernie was never going to win. And it was like a halfway endorsement in the middle of a podcast conversation. He's never like come out and done that explicitly. And Joe's in a position where like, do you have to say yes to that? And also like he happens to agree with a lot of things righteously. So I understand like what's going on and things that happened to him that, you know, Trump more aligns with. And Kamala wouldn't even fucking come talk to him in his studio. I mean, that was that was insane that she wouldn't do that. So I see all these things, but it's like the pressure builds over and over again to the point that now

you know elon just went on a show again a month and a half ago and i don't envy the position joe is in and i think it's really tough to criticize him because it's like well that's his friend they've been through a lot like he's trying to clean up the government i appreciate that like would i challenge him i don't know but then when people come at joe and say why the fuck are you just letting him say whatever he wants to say? I understand where those people come from. It's just a really, really difficult spot to be in. And anyone who says they know how they would handle that is full of shit, including me. I don't know how I would handle that.

So there were a lot of people who used to criticize. the revolving door of mainstream news, which is someone like Jen Psaki can leave the government and then get an MSNBC gig right away. Compare that ecosystem to, you know, Elon Musk, proximity to Joe, already is in the government, can now also go to Joe anytime he wants to and make his case. And I think people are doing a disservice to their own IQ if they don't realize that these are the exact same thing. So did you see this podcast Joe did with Ben Lamb, the colossal sciences guy? No. Okay. I haven't seen it, but that is a podcast we've been working

on for 18 months now. It's either Ben or Matt, one of the two guys, they were each scheduled like one time and we couldn't line up the schedules and we're still trying to get it done. But they're, for people that need context, they're the de-extinction science company. So they just recently brought back a genetically modified version of dire wolves. It's not a real full dire wolf, but it was kind of marketed that way, but it's interesting. Right. And I'm very interested in what they're doing. So I've had a friendly disagreement with my friend, Paul Rosalie over the past couple years about it because he's a pure conservation guy. He's lived down the Amazon for 19 years. He's been screaming trying to save that fucking place.

I've been down there. I've seen the work he does. He's amazing. And he has – I would be uneducated to lay out his concerns exactly as he would want them laid out he'll do that in the future on a podcast but he has concerns about colossal and some of the hurt he thinks they may be doing towards conservation for example so he laid those out publicly he and i were talking about it too and so he called me and went on like an 11minute rant that I wish we had recorded because it was – I want you to picture if like Dave Smith were alive while Vietnam were going on. That's so funny. And that is about like the level.

It was biblical. And I was just sitting there laughing the whole time. But he said something in there that was so profoundly perfect and I'm not going to get the wording right. But it's a really important point. Yeah. Where he was – because again, like he's friends with joe rogan and obviously joe put this guy into the stratosphere and hey i'm gonna fucking bring these guys on too so it's not like he shouldn't do that or something he just happens to have a different opinion and so the way he's looking at this he said we've created this

ecosystem now that has a lot of positive to it but it's like you can bring people in for a long form conversation and they can be a real human being for a few hours and you can want to get along with them and they get along with you and they put things in a really nice way that where they can sound like a nice guy and even sound like they have good intentions and maybe even sometimes they do have good intentions but when they come through the come to the door we're in the studio but when they do when they do actually come down to it you know some of them actually don't have good intentions and are just painting it like they do and people that are listening to them at the table like a me like you telling me like you need to look out for this kind of thing because you are you're part of

this ecosystem you can make this mistake you may want to see the best in this person because just as a human you want to get along with them and they sound like they're saying something so interesting to the point that you then let's say they're a good guy not a bad guy you misappropriate their intentions with what the actions with the consequences of their actions and that's what he thinks happened with colossal he thinks that's what's happening here i'm not saying he's right about that but i'm saying he thinks that's what he thinks happened with Colossal. He thinks that's what's happening here. I'm not saying he's right about that, but I'm saying he thinks that's what's happening. Don't you think people should be judged on the consequences and other intentions? A hundred percent. But what I'm saying is I think that mistake exists across the board,

across all different issues, across podcasting. I think I'm guilty of it too, with people that, of course, with people that I've had in here who just, you know, maybe they really actually don't have bad intentions. Their intentions are good. Like they're not just a bad person, which those people do get through the cracks as well. But it's like what can actually support that? Are you just making this sound like it's a friendly way for you to give me bad evidence or are you giving me evidence that can actually move the needle here? I know that's a convoluted way of putting it. I hope people can understand what I'm trying to get at there. But I think that that is also an issue when you're friends with a genius. Elon Musk is a genius who says a lot of genius shit. You can operate. I know I would

be in the trap of operating under the assumption that everything he fucking says is genius and because he's saying it, it must be right. But now am I doing my job if I'm sitting there with that opinion? Maybe not. But again, it's a really tough spot to be in and I don't know how I would handle that because they have an incredible friendship and long history. I have a couple of them for you. What's your heart out? How long do you got? We got time.

Come on in, Nico. We're good. You're good. You're good. My boy Nico is rolling through. We're still on camera. I'm going to go pee real quick. You want to pee real quick?

All right. All right. All right. We talked about a lot of funky shit, but let's talk about some fun stuff. We haven't talked about fun shit yet? No. I've been getting worked up, Sog. Let's talk about the current state of our gender dynamics in America.

I'm going to hand this off to Joey D. Yeah. So something which I've been like super fascinated with is the rise of the trad wife movement oh and yeah so just a refresher trad wife is traditional wife which basically means that we need to return to before all this corporate movement what's got me right get back in the kitchen so so so that whole like men used to say that now there's a whole lane of tiktok commentary which is like hey i actually just want to be like a pilates mom and live that easy life what have you and it's funny to talk about it because when i was coming of age the rise of what i call like buzzfeed feminism was coming into place which is

you know like the amy schumer type of commentary which is women need to dominate in the workplace and what have you i come from a family where my mom made more money than my dad so i'm super empathetic to in india in because she was spending time between india and uk but she ran like a teaching business and she was pretty successful in that. So I know what a successful working woman can look like. However, I think right now, tracking this rise of trad wife movement, while at the same time,

most people who are graduating out of school are women. Most people who work in like the nine to five corporate structure are women making more money than men are not at the top level, but in an average median way. So where do you think this goes? Where there's like this whole yearning energy of women saying that maybe all of this is like not worth it. Yeah. While at the same time, the capital C culture is telling you that no, no, no, no, you can't do exactly what dudes are doing. All right. This is dangerous. I know. I love that. Dangerous little road you're taking me down. So

let me layer this one. Number one, I think people should have a choice to do what they want to do. Yeah. I don't think there should be set roles of like, this is what we do in this society. If you're a woman, this is what we do in society. If you're a man, that said, there are certain things that statistically women are going to lean more towards and men are going to lean more towards. You make a really good point about there being more college graduates that are women or, you know, obviously, like just mathematically, there's more of them doing that. I do think in society, we have started to sell women a lie though. What I mean by that is not that women shouldn't be CEO or that women shouldn't strive to eventually be a woman president, right? I think those are great things. But I think we've

sold to women that this social plan I talked about the last time I was on with you is also for them too. So let's review that for people that haven't figured that out. You have this- The social contract, yeah. You have this thing, I this thing i'm very passionate but you have this thing where you're a kid and you're told all right go get decent grades work hard in school by the way have your extracurriculars you know be good at a sport you could stick it on a fucking resume get that gpa in college so you're set up junior year you take your sat classes make sure you get at least you know 12 50 or whatever you get into a decent school so that your fucking parents can throw you a graduation party and tell all your friends you're not fucking retarded then you go to college you go there you drink smoke and fuck but you get your

work done you have a decent gpa and you start doing those internships when you're a sophomore and junior in college and then boom you come out and you go into a respectable industry to get a respectable job so you can start making money and this is something that men were always so because it's like okay we come out we do that this is like our default setting right then we start to we start to find the girl maybe at 25 26 27 but we're working our ass off we get married at 29 30 we start popping out kids at 32 maybe we're a vp of some fucking marketing or whatever it is now we're making 120k a year in new york that's enough to fuck a walk my dog take a piss and clean it up with you know whatever nailed to the team but i'm saying like this is my second time listening to this then it church then it keeps going through

and as you get up through your 30s you're popping out more kids now you're setting up fucking what is it 501 c3s or 529 whatever the fuck it's called i'm not in finance anymore you set up that stuff so that they can save for college which by the way by the time they get there there's going to be twice as many people graduating from college the degree is watered down and it's going to cost three times as much for you to be able for you to be able to be told that there's no such thing as fucking two genders and then you're in your early 40s now you don't like your wife anymore you fucking are fighting with her all the time so you go play golf on fucking saturday mornings to get away from her maybe tuesday afternoons too if you're if you're high enough up in your company. And eventually along the way, you're

saving your 401k so that you can look at that fucking 65. I'm out. 65, I'm out. 65, I go buy my condo in Florida. I go down there. I stop being productive. Maybe I take a walk in the morning to feel important or feel like I'm actually getting exercise. I look at the sun and I wait to die. This was something that was sold to men since World War II. It also along the way started being sold to women to the point that they are trying to automatically default, be the breadwinner and go be the corporate girl and whatever. And maybe that's not what they want. Maybe they actually do want more, the most important job there is in the world, which is to be a mom. Like I'm sitting here and by the way, I have both worlds with this. So I can really speak on this. My mom,

who's my hero, had 15 or 16 miscarriages and she ended up with me, which was a fucking handful. Like that was, that was the blessing and the curse, if you will. Off-road suspension with available 2-inch factory-installed lift kit, plus a towing capacity of up to 13,200 pounds. You'll be ready for anything this Truck Month. Truck Month is on now. Ask your GMC dealer for details. But she had a very prestigious public school teaching job in a major league, huge district, was making bank. And she left that behind at the drop of a hat to raise me.

And I remember when I was three years old and went into like my first little preschool or whatever, she decided to take a part-time back with that. And she lasted about three weeks because she wanted to be home to raise me. So she did that and devoted her life to me, which I owe her for into perpetuity. And then when I was 10, she decided, you know what, while he's away at school during the day, I can fill that time up and I can do things. And she did awesome things. She became a personal trainer. She ended up owning a gym and selling it. She went back to her roots, became a college professor at the local community college, because she could teach classes at 12 o'clock and one o'clock and pick me up from school.

You know, so she was able to live those worlds and do the entrepreneurial thing as well and have her own personal training business, but be a mom. And that was the most fulfilling thing that she ever did. And I think there are a lot of women out there who can absolutely do both and become the CEO and also be an amazing mom too. And maybe they even went to an Ivy League or something. So they've really invested in this but there's a lot of women whose you know secret dream is actually to be an amazing mom and depend on the man to go out there and and make the fucking money and fund the most important job

there is which is raising our kids and having her have the time to do that and like whoever my future wife is whoever she's going to be she's going to get to decide whatever she wants to do i'm not one of these guys he's fucking chauvinist it's going to tell her how to live or what to do with her life like him but yeah like joe but what i'm saying is i will definitely be very happy if i marry a girl who's like hey you know we're going to be having kids i hope to have a lot of kids and i want to stay home and raise them i'm going to be like fucking a please do to have a lot of kids. And I want to stay home and raise them. I want to be like, fucking A, please do that. And I will take care of the rest because that's why I've worked so hard to do what I do right now so that we can have that luxury. And also maybe come up in a world where our kids don't have to just follow those plans.

This is separate from what you're saying, but another thing that's very important to me. I mean, you see me. I don't go buy Gucci this and Vers i'm a i'm a very simple guy and like i don't want my kids obviously if this is going to keep going on the trajectory it does it's like i have success i don't want my kids to know that i don't want to live in a fucking 12 bedroom house and have fucking three houses in other places i want my kids to grow up to be dogs right i want them to grow up and form their own way. When we had Redman in here and he started talking about all his kids and all the different shit they're doing that's completely away from what he did, I thought that was amazing because Redman never switched up, bro.

He didn't give a fuck. MTV Cribs came to him and said, hey, we'll give you a house to rent so it can look more important. He's like, fuck that. Come to my two-bedroom and see my dollar box in the kitchen, bitch. Like he didn't – I love that, that man maybe that's why we got along but like i i'm gonna need a wife that like it's not like you know we're gonna sit there and be poor but everything but that understands like we're gonna try to instill those types of values in our kids and it's about what we have with each other rather than what we have in the bank going back to the trad wife part yeah um i think like there was a key part where he said

my wife can do that if she wants to right the problem not the problem the issue with the whole trad wife culture is that a lot of women do want to do that but because of all things affordability crisis and not to get too macro, like neoliberalism in general, most families cannot afford that. So not because of their choice, there are two people working. And that results not only in the woman not actually doing what she wants to,

but also the kid doesn't have to, like the mom and the dad in the house. So there's like a cascading effect which goes beyond the tradwife culture or what have you so What a luxury you're saying and I agree it is a luxury. It's a hundred percent. Yeah, and Just like you when I was born my mom wanted to just be a mom Even though she was a teacher and she was making okay money. But my dad was like, okay, we need the money. I totally get it.

Because he was also going through a lawsuit. But my mom was like, I want to help you out. But my dad was like, no, no, be a mom because I know you want to do this. And that arguably had the biggest effect in my upbringing. Yes. Right?

We luckily got over that situation. My mom ended up opening her own business, super successful. But the point being the fact that she felt uncomfortable leaving me at a crash or like, I don't know, like a child care digger or whatever, that had such a long lasting impact on my upbringing. Yes. For a lot of families, that is probably not the case. Correct.

So I think we can keep talking about trad wives and culture wars or what have you, but because of economic realities, most families can afford that. Yeah, let's step into that for a minute because that's the 500-pound elephant in the room. We have legislated away the middle class. Okay. And we've created people where they're living literally paycheck to paycheck. And the respect I have for the moms who work three jobs while their kids are forced to be more independent on things that ideally they wouldn't be independent on it. Maybe the age

they're at is tremendous because those moms are in a horrible spot and the dads are out there working hard too when they're around. And I'm not talking about situations where it's like, there's a single mom or single dad. I'm talking where there's both even and they're both working. But what I also don't think should happen is like the I want that Ferrari effect of society. Oh, yeah. A lot of the trad wife stuff is attacked because they're like, you have the luxury of having that. And there's a part of me that says, you know, we used to live in this world. I remember John Bork talked about this in episode 57 with me.

But he's like, when I was growing up, you'd pull up next to the guy in the ferrari at the light and you'd say damn i wonder what he had to do to get that i want to do that too he said now these kids pull up and they say i should have that too right and so you don't want to just attack women who may have the luxury of being a trad wife strictly because they have the luxury of having that you also don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and ignore the problem that you very righteously raise a hand which is that it is not an economic opportunity for a lot of people partially also because we sold everyone the lie that every fucking person has to go to college for 70 grand a year to get a gender studies degree like what nico do you use your college degree

every day people ask me that all the time. Can we pull the mic to Nico? People ask me that all the time. I honestly believe I do use my college degree just in the facet of learning how to mature as an individual and hold myself accountable to goals that I want to achieve. So the pushback to that is you use your college skills not the degree necessarily yeah and then if you want to dig into the degree i did do marketing so i believe and lean into the newer things i learned as far as like in your marketing degree my school was like super niche you know so we learned a lot of like social media techniques and things like that, that I just try to implement into my entrepreneurial side of stuff.

Like, cause my dad, when we run the bagel store, we clash on that all the time. Best bagel store in Hoboken, by the way. Nice. Bagels on the Hudson. Yeah. So like just the other night, like we were clashing about, he's doing a new, he has a big deal coming up. So he has the opportunity to maybe have extra cash

to spend on things and coming up in the marketing degree you learn a lot about like different channels to market to people in different ways that capture new sales we're going to need to capture new sales our brand compared to the other bagel store in town is not similar on an online presence right so i'm pitching to my dad like hey we should invest a little bit of money and try to get this social media thing going obviously his brain is so old school i'll work on him you know what i mean and like he never went to school he never got a degree nothing like that he learned the bagel business by sitting in the store for 365 days a year and traditional ways of marketing that were pitched to him

by the people who came in the store and pitched, hey, put your ad in the newspaper, do this, do that. Me, I actually learned something. That's why I say I use it. Not only in the bagel business, in my real estate business as well. Yeah, I'm not going to go into detail, but I too- But that's not the majority of people. Here's the the thing i too also feel like i use my degree i have no complaints about my college degree i went to school for the major was called global management which sounds

way more important than it was but it was business school yeah right and i use it all the fucking time but i also know people that even some that went to my school who like, Nico, what was your major over there? Marketing, business marketing. Okay, exactly. So he's putting that to work within business. I'm an entrepreneur as well. I'm putting it to work within business in what I do. And then other things are you learn along the way college didn't teach you.

But I know a lot of people who are really smart who got like a poli sci degree. Most people in D.C. Even like a normal degree. Yeah. And they're like, what do I, do I, like even the ones who will go down and work in dc and work at think tanks they're like do i do i really use a lot of what i learned there you know what i mean so it's it's not that i don't want to demonize college i think that's i think that's a huge mistake we're making because now the reaction is we need to cancel it it's all bullshit it's all marxist that's not the case at all i didn't have that experience at all but like that healthy middle ground of like all right well maybe this kid

wants to own a contracting company so college isn't for him trade school is for him and by the way he's going to be fucking driving around a bentley or more money than an accountant maybe yeah whatever that's right so it's like but you also need college for engineers and lawyers and doctors and all this shit so it's very important but we have to we've watered it down so much and we've put these expectations on it and we tell these kids you know when they're fucking 17 years old to sign their name to a loan and they don't even know how money works it's like the system's set up to fit exactly the system is set up to fail And I think we got to reckon with that sooner rather than later. What do you think happens to like, how old are you?

32. 32. I'm 29. What do you think happens to like the COVID generation of kids? That's a great question. I asked Sagar why he got into journalism and news. For him, it was 9-11. I was too young to remember 9-11,

but for me, it was all things 2016, which is Trump's circa first election. Is that when you immigrated too? No, I moved to the UK when I was 16 or 17, and then I moved to the States when I was 20. So what, like 2014 like 2014 2013 something like that in the states yeah 2017 okay yeah so but long story long i still remember my first day i got out of dulles in dc and all the kavanaugh protesters was going on and i was an intern

at the call i like beer good great timeline um but then i got to the office i got an internship at tucker carlson's blog which was daily caller and in my first day in the states i met tucker and tucker was like don't judge us we are not like this because he was he was referring he was he was referring to everybody outside but then we met again um like literally like four months later when things were even more chaotic. And he was like, you know what, judge us. And like, that was like my, my orientation in all things, American journalism and like news in general. But my question is, I think about like the next generation who kind of came of age during COVID and everything that was happening during then, and that whole tragedy defined their upbringing. And they were kids they probably faced the consequence of their dads

and moms losing their jobs during 2008 yes and everything that happened during 9-11 what have you so what what do you think their like approach to America is and how they look at the country in general because I'm guessing you are probably taught to look at america in a way different way than these people are going to be yeah i i not even looking at america i think we got to go a layer below that what long stream you know long-term downstream effects does it have that kids weren't in school and interacting for two years i don't care if it was kindergarten first graders or third grader, fourth graders or seventh grader, eighth graders or 11th grader, 12th graders. There is a social understanding and a social learning environment and also a quality of learning environment that we already talked about earlier is suffering in this country

that was taken from them. And there are interpersonal skills that have been lost. I think it's beyond that too. I think you got to look at adults. Like one, listen, when COVID hit, I was building this thing. And my job was to be social with people during the week because I'm fucking talking with them on camera. But I lived on a fucking island.

I worked all day. I mean, I still do. But like I was literally at my parents' house, you know, in Bumblefuck south jersey living in a dark studio like this and editing all night so i'm away from the world i'm away from how a lot of things work and i remember do you miss that time no i remember well there there's there are fond memories i know how much you romanticize the grind that's what i'm asking i romanticize it in the sense that there are fond memories. I know how much you romanticize the grind. That's what I'm asking. I romanticize it in the sense that there are fond memories of how things happen.

And that would be a fucking 12-hour conversation if we started that. But I don't miss being sickly and unhealthy. Like I was able to take care of my health when I got up here, get back. I mean, you know, it got to a really bad place physically and mentally by the end of that. But I remember coming back. The one thing I could still do is like have interpersonal communication on a basic level with people. But to this day, when I walk down the street, people look down. You feel weird if you say hello and it affects me.

I'm empathic with people and I take on people's emotions. So when people do things like that, like look away from me or whatever, I shut down. I don't, I don't even know how to handle it. But what I'm realizing is that that's a societal wide thing. And it's this like expectation where people got separated from each other. So now they're also like, I don't want to say they're suspicious of everyone, but yes, that's the perfect way to put it. They're very siloed. And I think that the downstream effects of that are already bad on society i think you could even look at it with dating where everyone's just relying on fucking flipping this way and when you go to do things in person you're worried about how they're going to come across you're worried like all right well if i get rejected is she going to

think i'm fucking creepy just for asking like these are not questions i thought about in 2019 thank god but 2019 was a good year good year but you know what i mean it's like society has changed even in an adult level what do you think it's going to do to kids not just that my question is how do they look at america in general how they look at the promise of it because my i don't i like to take myself out of the equation because i have a different lived experience i'm comparing them it's very progressive too yeah um but that's what fucking journalism school does to you but i try to compare that to like how like how their parents viewed this country yes and the promise of it because like they came of age they being their parents came of age during their

20s and that whole culture not called by culture i mean like outlook and the promise of america is so different that the nihilism their kids grew up in did you ever meet anyone in the silent generation meaning people that were born before 1941 how old how old they would be now they would be like fossils so no 95 yeah so my i'm still lucky to have three of my grandparents they're all from that generation they were born in 1933 to 1935 the ones that are left and my grandma to this day little four foot 11 italian lady you know she's not missing any meals they're doing just fine my grandpa was a doctor like they lived the american dream but she still writes down how much a fucking orange costs and shit you know she puts signs on every you know light in the house that says turn off when done there's a sign on on on the

shower down the shore that like limit it to nine minutes of water and i'm like lady i used to manage your money on wall street you know you're you're fine but that's built into her from the depression era because the silent generation was the artist generation of the four generations in the fourth turning which i'm not going to explain all right now but what we are talking about with the current generation the generation and gen z that came up in this time of just like financial crisis fucking you know political and fighting social media making everyone fucking miserable and want to kill themselves all these things that are happening they are a part of that generation that grows up during the fucking crisis moment

and as a result they are very guarded about the world they are very like all right what could go wrong they're more protective of things and i think that is going to be something we see moving forward because if you've read the fourth turning we have seen this cycle happen now several times over and over. Yes, 100%. Yeah, and it's so important because your outlook to America could be either that of abundance or that of scarcity. Because you can look at America and be like, oh, it's an empty canvas and i can build whatever i want to build or you can look at america and be like i saw my dad lose his job i saw what that did to our house in general and i came off age during covid where you cannot get a job you are stuck in your house and after that there is all of this political turmoil going on

where we cannot agree on the basic stuff oh and by the way i have college debt yeah so what that does to like a kid's brain coming of age that's where my concern is and i don't blame them for not being patriotic by the way yeah i i i couldn't agree more man i think uh i i think you to – it's not to say you got to celebrate how people look at things, but you have to understand why they look at them that way. And that's how I'm going to look at that generation. That's kind of what it is. I need something positive to end on. So obviously, how long are you going to keep this atrocity on top of your head?

Until we get a million subscribers. I publicly committed to it. My mom rips me about it every day it is an atrocity i don't have that you're not rocking the flow today i appreciate you not showing raining outside i just put this on oh you got the product in your hair this kid's got amazing flow but yeah it's not great it's definitely uh hard to take care of at this point a little unkempt but uh we'll uh this is my gym hair too so it's a little worse than usual but when you look back on this phase of your building,

how do you think you will look at it? Because you told me like, you don't look fondly upon that time during COVID. It's not that I don't look fondly upon it. I don't miss it. You don't miss it. That kind of sort of like did kind of mold and mold to what you are today though.

It did. I don't regret a second of it. And I worked my fucking dick off during those years. And I've continued to do that. mold to what you are today though it did i don't i don't regret a second of it and i work my fucking dick off during those years and i've continued to do that we're over five years in now maybe in seven days a week it can't be like that forever but i know this is my moment to do what i got to do and to take that big step into the stratosphere and I intend to do that and when I'm done whenever that is hopefully a long time from now I intend to be for a long time undisputed number one in the world at what I do and that has been the goal since day one and that's the only way this will end

Julian Dory thank you thanks I appreciate you bro thank you guys for watching the episode. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button and smash that like button on the video. They're both a huge, huge help. And if you would like to follow me on Instagram and X, those links are in my description below.