Julian Dorey Podcast - 😳 [VIDEO] - $15 Million FRAUDSTER vs FBI Special Agent | Matt Cox & Jim DiOrio • 177

Episode Date: December 24, 2023

(***TIMESTAMPS in Description Below) ~ Matthew Cox is a notorious former con artist, FBI’s Most Wanted suspect, fraud expert, and criminal. Retired from the game, he is now a prolific author and YouTuber. Jim DiOrio is a former FBI Special Agent in Charge & a West Point-educated Special Forces Veteran. EPISODE LINKS: - Protect Your Retirement W/ A Gold. IRA https://www.noblegoldinvestments.com/juliandorey or call 877-646-5347 Noble Gold is Who I Trust ^^^ - Julian Dorey PODCAST MERCH: https://legacy.23point5.com/creator/Julian-Dorey-9826?tab=Featured  - Support our Show on PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey  - Join our DISCORD: https://discord.gg/caZ8E8rK  - SUBSCRIBE to Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@UChs-BsSX71a_leuqUk7vtDg  MATT LINKS - MATT YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3_qYh4foNgVXI7NzcuxlCA  - MATT BOOKS ON AMAZON: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Matthew-Cox/author/B08372LKZG?ref=ap_rdr&store_ref=ap_rdr&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true  - MATT INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/?hl=en  ***TIMESTAMPS*** 0:00 - Matt Cox Story recap 7:30 - Matt faces 32 years in prison; Inmate advice on family 16:23 - FBI Tactic to interrogate criminals; Flying on Con Air 24:19 - Matt decides to cooperate; Finding lost money; “Great Fraud” 36:18 - Matt rips FBI to Jim’s face; Secret Service & FBI Roles on Matt’s Case 46:35 - FBI Agent Candace comes for Matt; Matt does Dateline (and it goes badly) 56:30 - Candace interrogates Matt; Matt & government negotiate sentence 1:06:21 - Judge oversentences Matt; Matt’s Aunt’s unfortunate testimony at sentencing 1:16:22 - Matt’s mindset in court; Matt cries in prison 1:20:52 - Matt ponders escape; Getting acclimated to prison 1:29:14 - Jim’s perspective on Matt’s case; Matt teaches real estate in prison (really) 1:39:11 - The corrupt politican Matt paid off 1:44:19 - How cliques in prison work; Matt gets beat up in prison 1:50:53 - FBI comes back to Matt w/ a proposal 1:56:02 - Low Security Prison vs Medium Security Prison; Matt does “American Greed” 2:03:33 - “99% Accurate”; Matt accidentally said he has weapons (lol) 2:13:23 - Matt comes to terms with reality; TI’s lawyer 2:19:32 - The schizophrenic billionaire, Frank Amodeo 2:31:03 - Tyree’s Case; Frank gets years off Matt’s sentence; Matt & Millie reunion 2:42:37 - Frank wants more; Matt’s first book he wrote in prison; Ron Wilson 2:47:01 - Frank sas something’s gonna happen CREDITS: - Hosted & Edited & Produced by Julian D. Dorey ~ Get $150 Off The Eight Sleep Pod Pro Mattress / Mattress Cover (USING CODE: “JULIANDOREY”): https://eight-sleep.ioym.net/trendifier Julian's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey ~ Music via Artlist.io ~ Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 177 - Matt Cox & Jim DiOrio Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up guys, if you're on Spotify right now, please follow the show so that you don't miss any future episodes and leave a 5 star review. Thank you. We were all good. Sorry for that inconvenience. Matt Cox, returning for round three. What's going on? We got a little co-host here with us today. Just, you know, special for you. Your former, I guess you'd say like your fellow employee over at the FBI. Is that how we'd put it by the time you were in prison? We worked together for many years.

Oh, did I? oh did i i actually met an fbi agent former fb no retired fbi agent that interviewed the fbi agent that was on my case her name is candace calderon and she had interviewed her and she's going to try and set up an interview with candace and myself oh it will never happen it never despises me but i you know i i did, well, yeah, set it up. Yeah, I'll do it. Because I know Candice won't do it. Candice has some serious sound bites from Matt Cox episode two from last year. There were some good ones you had on there for sure.

Yeah, she's – just – yeah. All right. Water under the bridge. Anyway, so for people who are just tuning in, obviously we have who I call the G-Foat sitting across from me, greatest fraud of all time, Matt Cox. If you don't believe me, look up his Wikipedia page. It's all there. And riding shotgun, your favorite special agent, Jim DiIorio, in the building.

Welcome, sir. Let's go. So the way we did this a lot of people have been begging for this third episode since the last one we did i think we put out last august 2022. and you're like becky we are now social workers we now work for the salvation army i made a badge you know it's really funny i made a badge using my social – the picture on my social security – using the picture on my wanted poster. I used that picture on my social – on my Salvation Army badge. The badge said that I was a statistical surveyor.

Begging? Begging. Dude, I get questions all the time like when's Matt Cox coming back? When's Matt Cox coming back? When's Matt Cox coming back? And so the first time I brought you in was in like March or April of 2022. And you were there. You had to get a flight out at night. And so we had to cut it off at like three and a half hours. And the whole time you were rushing, but you're like, we're never going to get through this fucking story, dude.

You ask all, you're very inquisitive. I am inquisitive. You're a very interesting guys so it worked out perfectly where we left off when you went on the run from the fbi and then the second time you're here i've been caught right the second time was your whole time on the run we didn't even get to prison or we ended it with the cops literally arresting you she goes look i look, I think I fucked up. What do you mean you fucked up? What does that mean?

So I'm getting out of the car at this point. I'm walking towards my house. And three, maybe four black SUVs pull up and lock up their brakes. And a bunch of guys jump out all in black vests and start screaming, get on the ground, get on the ground. My first thought was, I'm being robbed again. I'm getting – like this has got to stop. This is really a bad neighborhood. Money's up there.

I'm not even in my house. So – and then I see it says Secret Service on the front of it. There are things in white. And they're pointing guns, and they put me on the ground. They handcuffed me, and they set me up, and they brushed me off. And they said – they hold up a piece of paper, and the guy goes, oh, I don's him he goes no no it's him it's him he's no man i look at him he goes no look at his eyes it's him it's him he's oh it's him he's it is you mr cox right you are matthew cox right and i went yeah yeah it won't take long to tell you neutral's ingredients. Vodka, soda, natural flavors.

So, what should we talk about? No sugar added. Neutral. Refreshingly simple. Unlike Becky, I wasn't gangster. I didn't hold out 45 minutes to an hour. So for people who haven't heard Matt's story before, this sets up perfectly because you absolutely can watch these out of order. It's kind of like The Godfather 3 except the third one's going to be great and you can hear about his prison life today which is a wild fucking story i i know some of that there's a lot of that i don't know because i purposely haven't really

asked you about some of that but the the other two are easily the funniest episodes we've ever done you you are very gifted so anyway now that we set the deck we leave off you were in i believe nashville and you were who was the chick you were living with at the time uh amanda gardner right okay and then it was amanda's friend who like tipped off the cops right yeah that was um yes tina oh no trina trina oh her name was trina that hurts that's a tough one trina's like such a stripper name it's a real you know yeah she was yeah she was she was she's a nice person okay nice and told the police she did the right thing and she contacted secret service and negotiated a a small reward an embarrassing embarrassingly small reward um to turn me in okay well at the time you were the

most wanted fraudster in america you had been on the run for a few years and you get caught and this is not as simple as case happens you go to prison you were charged with like an insane number of indictments no what was the setup there well Well, I mean I was indicted like three – four different jurisdictions, but then they consolidated them all to just Atlanta. Why just Atlanta? Because they can't – not that they can't, but it's overkill to indict you in Florida and then charge you and sentence you there and then move you to Atlanta. And what ends up happening is you'd end up with 500 years. So instead they said, does one prosecutor want to just consolidate all of these charges, prosecute them in one place? It's fraud.

So they did that. Not that they don't always you know i would love to say oh would they typically do that they and they typically do but there are many occasions when the guy is just such a bad person that maybe he's you know i know guys that just they have just these horrific crimes all over the united states and they don't separate them so you get 50 years here 120 here 60 here 90 here next thing you know this guy has got 500 years just they do it just to make sure you can fight even if you could win them all it'd take you 30 years to win them all right that's what they did to harvey weinstein i think

right like they had his case in new york and then another in la yeah i guess i mean i'm not sure what happened with weinstein but i'm saying yeah yeah, they'll – but I got lucky. Why did you get lucky? Because they just did the one – they consolidated. Yeah, but why did they do this for you? That's what I want to know. No, they – I mean, typically, that's what they do. Typically, that's what – just because why would you have four different prosecutors working on essentially the same?

Yeah. It's cleaner. Like, let's wrap this up. And my prosecutor definitely wanted the – she wanted the media attention. She loved media attention. Like, she's never – A prosecutor that loves media attention? Never saw an opportunity – never missed an opportunity to talk in front of the camera. And so you come back – where were they holding you when you got arrested?

Nashville. Like, got arrested? Nashville. Like I went from Nashville to like – I don't know. They moved me from Nashville, held me somewhere, some state next to Nashville. I don't know. I was educated in Florida. I'm not sure what. I don't think I could even name all the states. One of those square states around Nashville. Gotcha so like Kentucky, I think they held me in Kentucky

for like a week or two. And I just remember when they first put me in this cell in Kentucky, like there's like 20, 25 guys there, right? So you walk in there and they had me cuffed and they uncuffed me and I turned around. Were you shackled too? Did you have your feet shackled? Yeah, I was shackled. Back then they used to have the black box. I'm like a white collar criminal. They've got this box and I'm like Hannibal

Lecter. I filled out some paperwork. We love doing that stuff. It's just hurt. It was hurtful. So, but they uncuffed me in this room. And I remember, so by the time they uncuff you and I turn around and look and there's like 20, 25 guys standing there staring at me. And I mean, I just remember thinking, my first thought was, this is when they rape you. And I thought, and one of the guys

points at the TV and goes, yo, man, you were just on TV. And I was like, what? You were just, you like ripped off banks or insurance companies

or something, right? And I was like, I'm looking, I'm like, what? Like it was just surreal. But yeah, that's when I,

I remember I went to go use the phone. I don't know why this is funny to me. But keep in mind, you know this. I was raised upper middle class. I'm dealing with banking. Right. You know, even when I'm building houses, I'm dealing with general contractors.

Right. So I'm not dealing with the guy who can't speak English or that sort of thing. I'm dealing with a guy who's got a, probably a college degree. So what ends up happening is I go to use the phone and I can't figure out how to use the phone. Like, it's not like you just punch in the number, you know, and it doesn't, nobody, you don't know how to do it. And this guy comes up, this black guy comes up to me and he goes, John got peeps. And I went, excuse me, John got peeps. I'm sorry. Like, I'm terrified. I'm like, excuse me jack got peeps like i'm sorry like i'm terrified i'm like i'm excuse me he's jack got beast man you peeps i'm like i'm looking around and i'm i realize that i'm sitting there thinking like you need someone to to kind of you know to explain what's happened what he's saying he's speaking english like you're in trouble and this white guy comes over he's got

horns tattooed on his head so i'm like you're no better i'm just as terrified of you look at your fucking ass you're insane and he walks up and he's like he's like your people man my people and he goes your family are you trying to call your family he goes i got this and he's like i was like gotcha you know like walks off and he's like you're trying to call your people i said yeah and he explains it to me and i remember thinking boy you are you are unprepared for this experience like how much were you facing at this time like double life no no 154 years so you know so i feel like that's not life although i guess it's it is probably like i don't like think ever think of it as life. But my PSI said 32 years to life when they finally got done, which I remember my lawyer was like, she's like, 32 years to life.

She's like, that's ridiculous. You can't even get life for fraud. And I just – Watch me. She just never made me feel good. There was never – I never had a – I never walked away from a meeting with her and felt like, yeah, this is good. Positive. Were you – so you had been on the run, like we were saying, for such a long time.

Like was there any feeling of relief or were you just completely just terrified at what's going on? Just terrified. Like you know how everybody's like, oh, I felt so – I just felt like a weight was all taken off my shoulder. Like I don't know what – I don't know what your experience was, but I felt horrible. This was a bad day. It was a bad day. And I told you, I think I told you this the last time. Like, I remember the whole week leading up to me getting arrested.

Casino Royale was coming out, was coming out. Right. And. And it was the new James Bond. What's his name? Uh, Daniel Cray. So, and I was thinking like, wow, what a great James Bond he was going to be. And I thought this is going to be great. And I remember the whole week Amanda was like, Hey, listen, we're going to that festival. Um, you know, on Saturday I was like, yeah, yeah, I know. But on Saturday, no, I was like, um, on Friday we're going to Casino Royale. She's like, yeah, I know. And then something else happens. She'd go,

hey, we're going to talk to someone. We're going to do whatever on Sunday. I go, yeah, that's fine. But on Friday, she's, I know, Casino Royale. And so I remember when I got arrested and I pulled, they patted me down, you know, they threw me on the ground and pulled me up and put the handcuffs on me and brushed me off and I'm standing there. And were like you're that cox right and i was like right yeah yeah and i remember my first thought was i'm not going to be able to see casino i'm not going to make that i know it like i'm not even going to ask you this guy but yeah the secret service arrested me i went got locked up and they within maybe i was there maybe a week and then they moved me to um somewhere else uh like mississippi for a few days and then they moved me to it was only maybe a week and then they moved me to i remember this i'm not we're not doing

three and a half hours okay i'm but listen there was there was a guy i remember there's a guy there and he said uh a guy who'd been in jail before and i remember he kept getting called to mail every day getting two or three letters a day and i was like who's writing you every day and he's like oh my ex-girlfriend i broke up with her i'm like why he's like well we were going to get married but i'm going to do three years i got arrested he'd been he goes i've been down before i did five years before got out was driving somebody around who was selling drugs he's i got roped into it he said i got three years so i broke up with her i'm like what and he would but i only know because he was opening up the envelopes and he would look at the pictures and be like and throw them away he was constantly just

tearing up the letters and throwing away tearing up the pictures and throwing them away because you don't want other guys to get your pictures obviously right so and uh and i was like why'd you break up with her and he's like yeah because it's just gonna make my time harder like what do you mean he said he said okay so i watched guys the first time he's the guys that have the hardest time are the people that have a family on the outside. People that have a wife and kids. He was like, they, they, they hang tight. Some of them will hang tight for a few months, maybe six months. They'll come visit you. They'll put money on your books. He was, but it's a one-sided relationship, bro. He was, there's nothing you can do for these people. He was, all you can do is call up and say, you know,

what's going on with this? What's going on with that? Send me send me some books. I need money on my books. He was like, it's a total. He's you're just you're just a taker and a taker. He isn't. The worst thing is he's like, my girlfriend's hot, bro. He was she's gorgeous.

And he would show me pictures. He'd go, look, he's like, I don't want to be that guy on the phone who's going, where were you last night? Why didn't you answer the phone? What are you doing? He's like, I mean, who am I? He's like, I got myself arrested. I'm in jail. He said, my best bet is to cut her loose. I said, I'm cutting you loose. And in three years, if you are available, we will date again. We will hook back up. I want you to do whatever you want to do. Forget about me. Wow. He goes, and she's not accepting that. He goes, but she will. I go, well, maybe she won't he goes listen bro he said she's gonna get lonely he has 90 days from now six months from now he'll find somebody else he's

she's a good girl it's not her fault like he really had a great attitude like it was depressing but he knew he said my time will be so much harder if i'm worrying about what she's doing he is and i'll destroy that relationship while i'm in prison he He said, by the time I get out, she'll hate my guts, even if she sticks by me. He said, the only people that keep their families the entire time, two people. And listen, when he said it, I just remember thinking, you're nuts. Absolutely right. He said, if you are a multi, multimillionaire and your wife is 100% dependent on you, he said, guess what? She's going to be there the whole time. He said, or she's not American. He has American women will not do it. He said, now she's from South America. She's going to be with you for five or 10 years. She'll do it. He said, I don't know if they're going to be off, you know, messing around. I don't know what

they're going to do. He was about to tell you what they're going to be there for visit. They're going to send you money. They're going to write you. They're going to, um, uh, order you books. They're gonna do everything they can for you. He said, nobody else. And he said, and she's a good girl. And she said, but she's an American girl and I can't do anything for her. In six months, she's gone. Whoa. That's interesting. I was thinking about when you were talking, a big thing for us was obviously always wanting to get cooperation. And so one of the things that I would do is just look and say, Hey, you're facing seven years. It sounds like nothing, but that's seven Christmases. That's seven New Years, seven Thanksgivings, seven Easters, seven of your kids' birthdays.

That would strike home because what you said is once you kind of look at it and say, you know what? I got to just separate and get through this, and I don't have to talk to anybody, including law enforcement or anybody else. But when you start making it real, that first Thanksgiving, okay, you know, whatever, that second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, it starts to get hard. That's what we would do. So if you're looking at, we're talking for opposite ends, obviously we're good friends and we're talking from opposite ends, but that's a big part of it. So what you say there is the only way really to get through it, not just with the girlfriend, but the family. If I'm looking at seven years, I'm talking a long time. I get that down to two years.

How fast did you have that attitude? Immediately? Immediately. Bro, I – About yourself or about other people, though? That's what I'm – No, I mean, look, I knew by the time I got moved, like I went through Oklahoma City. Have you ever been to Oklahoma City?

I have been yeah listen these people could teach they could teach the nazi regime something bro what i'm telling you right now they have it down we're talking about you're walking in in rows of four well is it one two yeah rows of four and they can strip your handcuffs off and you're think they're so fat they are so efficient at moving these guys from the air the airplane pulls up it it connects to you know the whatever that arm thing is that connects you get out you march in with your little hand with all shackled and handcuffed they strip you down the the marshals are so fast at it they give you your bag lunch your assignment where you're going where your housing is where you're i mean it's they see medical they see you see everything you're in your cell within 20 or 30 minutes it's insane wow it's they're just that efficient you

know they're doing it all day long but yeah so you were flying on con air then right yeah what's that like i mean it's not like the movie but it's not nice i'm glad it's not like the movie the plane's coming down it's not i mean the marshals are you know they are um they're not gentle caring souls they're not that's what they do all day is just oh do you talk with them at all i mean it, no, I didn't. But the few people I saw that made the mistake of saying something like they had to go to the bathroom, like you want to talk about their life. They could care less. And they're perfect at it.

They're great at being able to make you think you're about to go to the bathroom. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, no. As soon as you get on the plane, you're going to go. It's fine. Keep going. No, no, but I got to go now. As soon as you get on the plane you're gonna go it's fine get keep going no nobody gotta go now i gotta as soon as you got the plane you get up there sit down sit down as soon as you sit down and we get taken off when we're in there you'll go to the bathroom and like they just boom boom but before you know it you're just pissed you're

not going to the bathroom there's 300 guys on this plane or 200 guys oh you had that many you're peeing in your pants these guys are just pissing in their pants. I didn't realize they usually move that much. They do, yeah. And those planes are, you know, they're not in great shape. You can leave this duct tape on the fucking wing. It's not as bad as Con Air, but it's – and here's the thing, too. It's not as bad as Spirit, but it's close. You know what's funny?

I think he flew in on Spirit. That's what we put him on. That's what we put him on. Chances are you've been here before. There's absolute chaos in the markets, whether it be oil or stocks. And just when you thought it was safe and interest rates were rising, new threats have come out of nowhere. Tensions are boiling from Asia to Europe. Two wars are happening simultaneously with no end in sight. And an election year beckons in 2024.

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Like, it's much. You don't realize how gentle a commercial air flight is until you get on Con Air. Yeah. Well, I hope I never find out personally i don't want to witness that but you're you're in the middle and and you are you're in the middle of this whole thing and you're just trying to talk right away to to move down years but you were running your whole ring so what were you looking to talk on um well i mean eventually i i ended up going to you know they moved me back to at Atlanta, and they consolidated all my cases.

Right. And the problem was this. The problem was by the time the FBI shows up and the Secret Service show up, and I've – of course, when I meet with my public defender, who is like a super nice person, right? She's like really nice, did as good a job as she could have. Like I didn't help her out. You know what I'm saying? It's not like she had like, well, we can go to trial. Like she can't go to trial.

I'm guilty. I'm so guilty. I mean there's no way for me to even pretend that I'm not guilty, if that makes sense. So, um, what ends up happening is I talked to her and she says, look, you're done. Like, that's it. You've got, um, you know, you're, you're looking at a tremendous amount of time and they're saying they, first they said I had stolen like 26 or 27 27 26 or 27 million

dollars and i was like that's not true well i mean first they said you know anyway it was like 26 million i said that's not true we argued we get it down a little bit to like 19 million and then it eventually gets down like 15 million and so by the time the fbi you know and there's nothing i can do she's like you've basically your only strategy is you take essentially 30 years and change um because bank fraud the maximum bank fraud sentence you can get if they consolidate them all would be 30 years but i also had aggravated identity theft which is an extra two years so i had 32 years to life and that could be per event i also had aggravated identity theft which is an extra two years so i had 32 years to life and that could be per event right like the aggravated but they don't do that

right so they could they could tack that on it two years they could they could stack them yeah so if i have 50 identity theft at two years i could that could be 100 years just for identity theft that's mandatory consecutively yeah right which is one of the reasons you want to say, let's consolidate this. You're wheeling and dealing. Right. So we consolidate it. When did Candace visit you? So Candace was,

I'd already talked to her on the phone several times. You know that. Oh, we know that. Yeah. So she came to see me after. The Secret Service came to see me first.

So my lawyer's advice was tell them everything you can, cooperate, hope for the best. Like that was it. And it's not like I used to joke about it like she didn't help me at all. Like what was she going to do? Yeah, there's no case there. Yeah, there's nothing to do. There's no wiggle room. So it's like, yeah, you could go to trial and get yourself 100 years or you can cooperate and hope for the best.

So that's what I did. So I met with the Secret Service because I would love to say to the people out there that are watching this that I was a gangster, but I'm not a gangster. You know, like that wasn't like, you know, look at me like I can't go to prison. Yeah. What was the word? He's like, I'm adorable. I'm adorable. He's what are you going to do?

I said, oh, nothing. I'm leaving. So I can't go to prison. So immediately you were like, I'm on the run. Yeah. I mean, look at me, bro. I'm adorable. Can't go to prison. So immediately you were like, I'm on the run. Yeah. I mean, look at me, bro. I'm adorable. Can't go to prison.

Had you had any of the plastic surgery yet or anything? No, I haven't been on the run yet. Oh, shit. So you did that to change your appearance while you were on the run? Of course. I mean, I know what you're thinking. It's hard to improve this. But I'm adorable.

I cannot go to prison. So I had to weigh the respect of my fellow scumbag criminals, their respect versus cooperation. And it was a very, very quick decision on my part. It was like, yeah, I mean, I know you guys are going to be disappointed in me. But if I'm not in prison with you, I don't have to be concerned about that. Well, you're going to be in there for a while with them. That's the thing. I was. But, you know, the least amount of time as possible was the goal.

So I meet with the Secret Service, meet with them. That was an interesting conversation because, you know, they're still trying to put it together, right? And I told you, I think I've – did I tell you this last time? No, we left off when the sirens were blaring and they were saying, Matt Cox, get on the ground. So the guy says – I think his name is Bronskowski or something. It was some – I don't know, some really long like Russian name or something. Anyway, he's so funny because when I was talking – so we meet, and the first thing he does is he sits down and he says, listen, before we get started, I need – so I got the U.S. attorney, two Secret Service agents, my lawyer, and Jim knows because he's sat in many of these, and me. And the first thing he says is – he said, we need to fix something real quick.

He said, need to make – go ahead and – he said, so that you don't get yourself an obstruction charge. He said, we know you still have some money out there. So let's get that off the table right away before we even start. He said, what other money do you have out there? Because we already know you have money. We've already found additional money. And I'm like. Now, were you rolling in mostly cash in places at this point?

I mean, I had cash, right? Like we had cash. They had found some cash. But keep in mind, Amanda went immediately and took – went to our safety deposit box, her safety deposit box, and took the safety deposit box, took all the cash out. And then immediately – this is also a girl that was going to wait for me. Went immediately with about six or seven passports and went straight to the Secret Service agent's field office and said, oh my gosh, you can't believe what I just found in my safety deposit box. I had no idea these were in here. And I thought, wow. Great, great woman you got there. I didn't even get the six months. But once again, she's a good citizen. She did the right thing.

So she, you know, and I joke about that, but I really do believe that. Like she was in a bad spot. She had a son. She has no – that was the right thing to do. Have you ever talked to her since then? Well, no, no. I haven't talked to her, but I've had producers who have spoken with her. And I traded a couple of text messages. And basically she's remarried.

She's remarried. She has another kid. And she met a decent human being. And she's remarried. She's remarried. She has another kid. And she met a decent human being. And she married that guy. That's nuts. And so she was like – I had sent her an email when I was in the halfway house and emailed her – not an email. What am I saying? Messaged her.

Facebook, right? Oh, you got right out. You were looking to hit a guy. No, stop. So I messaged her hey what's going on how are you but you know told her look you know boom just curious to know how you're doing and then she didn't answer for like let's say maybe even six months to a year and one day i got an email from her i couldn't believe it i mean i'm god damn it uh a message

instant message from her am i not supposed to cuss no No, you're fucking good, dude. You get a quite – This is New Jersey, bro. Come on. So she says to me in that – she said, listen. She said, I'm so sorry. I've really kind of battled over this and thought about it and want to talk to you. And I'm interested in talking to you and I would love to catch up. And I have questions. I know you have questions i know you have questions and she said um but

out of respect for my husband i need to i'm gonna i need to ask him first and talk to him about this and see what he how he feels and i will let you know and then maybe a couple days later she came back she said look i'm sorry i spoke with him and he just doesn't want me talking to you and i have to respect him i hope you understand that and i said i totally understand that i get it and you know and then some producers have reached out to her to talk to her a few times on some of the, like the little kind of documentary episodes that I've done and they've reached out to her and she's spoken with them and she's like, look, I'm, I don't want to be interviewed. And, um, and she's like, you know, I hope he's doing well. And please tell Matt that, you know, I,

I hope he's doing okay. And, you know, whatever, you whatever, blah, blah, blah, back and forth a little bit and that's it. But we've never spoken. So no, the answer is no. But she's doing good. That's great. So anyway, I get out. I talk to the Secret Service agent. So the Secret Service agent says, you're hiding money. We know you're hiding money. So I'm in the meeting with them. What do they call it? Proffer? that sounds right proffer yeah yeah you're right i guess probably proffer agreement so unless you lied during that particular set of circumstances you know then you would be okay for the day right there's nothing that they could use unless you lied if only it was during that day right i'm sure it was multiple days yep and then

the fbi was another two or three days um but so i talked to them so they said uh they were like you've we know you've hidden money and i was like no i didn't hide any money me no my lawyer my lawyer's leans it's like do we need to talk i'm like no i'm like i gave you i started naming off all the bank accounts because i told my lawyer that these are the bank accounts like give mine when they raided the house they found the document they found all these. So you didn't have, like, a trash bag of cash sitting somewhere in a backyard that no one knew? No, I did.

But remember how I had a home invasion? And they stole all the money. I had a home invasion just beforehand. They took, like, a hundred and something, $200,000 in cash. Is that the same one that Bob Menendez just had? The same home? Oh, yeah. Tough. He had a home invasion. Tough. That was interesting. Bob Menendez is the000 in cash. Isn't that the same one that Bob Menendez just had? The same home? Oh, yeah. Tough.

That was interesting. Bob Menendez is the senator in Jersey. They've been trying to nail for like two decades, and I think they finally got him. He'll get off again. You think so? Oh, and he had the gold bars and everything, right? Yes. Correct.

Yeah, yeah. That guy's like Teflon, bro. They can never fucking hit him. That would have been you. He's a troll. Doing that raid, though, if you were still in, right? Yeah, we did the first one. How much did you, are you allowed to say, you investigated him?

He's a little troll. It's not illegal to have troll bars. It's not illegal. You're an asshole, Senator Menendez. We'll take that as a yes. It's not illegal to have cash. Filthy, dirty criminal. Anyway, you're in the proper maybe you know a long

night so what ends up happening is the uh yeah the the secret service agent was like yeah you we know you have money i said no i don't i they they i said you've already gotten it like i told my lawyer where all the bank accounts were amanda had given them a bunch of bank accounts they'd taken whatever it was half a million a million dollars they had all these properties that they had were seizing and and getting and selling and i was like you've got everything and the guy goes look we know you're we know your line we know you have at least um i want to say was i'm going to say 200 000. might have been 100 but let's say 200. so he goes we know you have 200 000 in a bank account right now. And I was just like, what are you talking about? And he said, we know you've got $200,000 in the name of Walter Holcomb.

The guy's name was Walter, which was a homeless guy. We know you have $200,000 in the name of Walter Holcomb. And I was like, what are you talking about? And he slaps down a couple of bank statements that say that there's like $198,000 in this bank account. And it was called Southern Exchange Bank of Clarksville. And I was just like – I was like, wow. And he said, yeah. He said, we've already subpoenaed the records.

He goes, we're going to get the records. We're going to get the money. He's like, what are you doing? You're going to end up with an obstruction charge on top of everything else. And I went, did you go to the website? And he goes, yeah, I went to the website. And I went, okay. I said, what'd you think? And he goes, what do you mean? And I go, it was, he goes, it's a banking website. I go, yeah, but it was good, right? I mean, it's, yeah. And he goes, what do you mean?

I went, it's convincing, right? And he looked at me and he goes, no. And I go, yeah, bro. I go, it's all an illusion. It's not real. I said, there's no – like I made a fake bank, a banking website. Like I was like, you could go through. It had different pages.

You could do all kinds of stuff. How was he getting the money number then? Because all it was was it was just a fake bank statement that I had. Oh, shit. Gotcha. So what had happened – and he said, no. He said, I went to like the banking registry. No, you didn't.

He did. No way. There was a Southern Exchange Bank of Clark's. There was a Southern Exchange Bank which had been bought out by SunTrust Bank and closed. Mine was Southern Exchange Bank of Clarksville. And so when he looked it up, he saw Southern Exchange Bank. It was a real registered bank. It still was registered. And he just didn't realize that. So it was a real bank. Like to him, this number is correct. There's a website it's correct i have bank statements you've got money in the bank and i just subpoenaed the bank he subpoenaed their

their main address which was in tampa florida but nothing there and i said to him i said who did you who did you um you know who'd you subpoena and he goes i said you didn't get anything he said well no we sent it off like a week ago. We're still waiting. I go, well, I promise you, you're not getting anything. I'm not responding. Yeah. And I said, who did you, because he said, we've left messages. I go, who did you leave messages with?

And he said, on the voice, there was a voicemail. And I went, I haven't paid that thing in like four months. And he turned around and he called it. This is, you know, like he picked up, you know, boop, boop, boop. And it went, you know, remember that? Oh, yeah. And I was just, I was like, yeah, I haven't paid it. It's a humbling moment for that Secret Service agent.

Oh, yeah. And I remember, too, he had told me. Probably never asked another question that day, right? No, he did. He did. He was actually, here's the thing. He was funny. Like, he was super funny. Did they ever laugh at stuff like this? Yeah, they laughed all the time.

Like the secret, here's the thing about the Secret Service. The Secret Service, and I'm going to enjoy saying this, was the most professional group of law enforcement that I dealt with. The most thuggish, unprofessional group of law enforcement I dealt with at that time. Marshals? No. DEA. So, so. Anyway.

Clarksville PD. Tough day for the FBI. Anyway. Yeah, they. Well, listen, of course they were professional. They wouldn't throw themselves in front of Biden. They also wanted – they also, keep in mind too, like really wanted me to go to jail for a long time. But anyway, so yeah. So I was like, yeah.

I was like, it's all fake and this and that. And I remember the U.S. attorney was like, well, why did you even have those bank statements? And I was like, bank statements? She's like, why did you have the phone number? Why did you do that? I was like, banks are great for everything. They're great for employment. They're great for, you know, for your down payment. They're great for reserves. They're great for verification of rent,

mortgage. And she was like, all right, all right. So, yeah, so we talked and, you know, I just explained to them, you know, everything that happened from when I went off on the run, when I went to Atlanta, what I did in Atlanta. And that's when they kind of explain. Remember the first video we did where I explained that the, no, no, it was the second video where I explained that one time I'd gone in to a closing and the, the close or the attorney stopped in the middle of the closing and like picked up the documents and said, hold on a second. He went in the back and my secret services most wanted. Yes.

Right. So like, that's when they told me that they said, do you remember this closing where the guy actually left? He stopped the closing and I was like, yeah, yeah. He said, well, here's why. And they told me why, you know, they told me everything. Like we went to the bank. Remember the check you cash for $29, thousand dollars in the bank they gave you a hard time i was like right and she said we actually went there and talked to that like so they explained

everything oh wow they've really given yeah they're giving you the they were all over it they were all over it like they genuinely look and the difference is to as opposed to the fbi you know for them for the secret service this was a big deal right like for the FBI, you know, for them, for the Secret Service, this was a big deal, right? Like for the FBI, you know, they're tracking down, you know, violent criminals, but for the Secret Service, this is a big deal. You know, this falls right within their purview. And for the FBI, like to them, it's like, I'm looking for a serial banker or we're looking

for, you know, terrorists or we're looking for, you for – we're tracking down these types of things as opposed to – so they weren't as adamant as the Secret Service was. I've never understood where the Secret Service ties in because the way we all think of it the first time is the people with the mics who protect the politicians. But that's a tiny part of it. Very unique, niche-y investigative portion. So this being one of the card fraud and bank fraud to an extent. And then more so recently cyber. Did they step on – like did you guys step on each other's toes sometimes? It was a deconfliction.

So that's – the important thing is just talking to people and saying, what's your portion? What are you going to do? Who's going to take the lead? Does that always happen? No. It can lead to a little bit of swinging dick syndrome. Yeah, going at each other. And US attorneys, they usually do a good job of it, but you do have agents that are just like, meh, F you. I'm going to do what I'm doing anyway, so I don't care. Gotcha. Which was why after i spoke with the

secret service for three days and i explained everything like this is what i did i went straight here here's how did you do this i rented this how'd you get these names i got this how'd you do this so i just laid everything out this is what i did were they taking they were note taking notes oh yeah they're taking notes how long was this meeting three days yeah but each day like total they can't do it very long like maybe six hours seven like it's not like they're going 10 hours like they they have to have the market a day yeah six hours a day though 17 18 hours trying to get out and i think what matt's going to tell us i don't want to jump in but so both sets of these agencies are

taking notes so secret service is taking one set of notes providing it to the same United States attorney or assistant United States attorney. The Bureau is taking their own set of notes. Now think about the problems that can have, right? Because we don't record anything. We don't record anything. So we're writing down. So now at this point, we've got to come back and say, who's the lead? Because your notes don't reflect what he actually said. You're maybe throwing opinion in or something along those lines. So it's an issue. It could be an issue. I was going to say the other thing was –

See, that's why you need J3 consulting to do this kind of stuff. The FBI refused to send discovery. Is that legal? That's not legal. They just – Ball busting. They just didn't want to do it because what – Listen, remember Candace wanted me to come back and turn myself in in Tampa.

I turned – I ended up getting caught. Oh, you pissed her off again. So she's furious. She's upset because she wanted the case to be moved to Tampa. And the Secret Service was saying no. And keep in mind, too, the U.S. attorney didn't really care. Like, the U.S. attorney in Tampa was like, he didn't care about having this case. But the prosecutor in Atlanta loved the fact that Dateline had done a special on me.

I had all this press coverage. She wanted that. Why did the Tampa guy not care? He just didn't. His name is Robert Mazikowski. He ended up being the U.S. attorney in the middle district of Florida. And he's not there because he wanted a whole bunch of limelight. He's just going through prosecuting cases.

Good for him. This woman, this was her moment to shine. I would have thought after you terrorized the entire city of Tampa and all the surrounding provinces for years and years and years as just so disrespectful as as just a criminal in the night they would have wanted that case right on the home turf but i guess not i guess he didn't care and keep in mind too here's the other thing at this point it's mid to late 2000 it's mid to late 2007 so casino royale is out on dvd now no no i saw it you know when i got to coleman um when i finally got to federal prison i actually finally saw it one day. Great movie.

Yeah, I sat down with popcorn. I sat there. I was like, nice. I was like, yeah, it's been a long time. Been to the Ocean Club. Didn't see any dead bodies in hammocks, but wish I would have. Anyway, besides the fact. What ends up happening with that is that by the time the fbi comes in it's mid to late 2007 what's

happening banking crisis yeah things are starting the cracks are showing yep right like they're really it's it's getting bad you know it's not it's not 2008 yet so it's not that full-blown but it's happening and people are going this is is insane. Like things are going bad. People are going to foreclosure. Um, no docs, right? I mean, we're starting the new docs process. Now it's getting alone now. And now the articles are showing up. This is what they've been doing. Oh my gosh. Can you believe this? These horrible, horrible bankers. And I'm like, Hey, I'm a low level fraudster, bro. Like I'm not, I'm not, I don't work at Merrill Lynch. Like I'm not at bank of America, I'm a low-level fraudster, bro. Like, I'm not – I'm not – I don't work at Merrill Lynch. Like, I'm not at Bank of America.

I'm not making these types of decisions that led to this. Matter of fact, it wouldn't matter what the underwriting guidelines were. None of this helped contribute to what I did at all. I wasn't doing no-doc loans. Yeah, for a refresher for people, just explain your racket. My loans were – I said racket. Like flew out here. So my stuff wasn't no-doc.

It was full documentation. So if I was getting my guy a loan, he's got W-2s, pay stubs, maybe 1040s. He's got – his money is in the bank. It's been in the bank for at least 90 days, whether the bank was true or not, whether the actual there was actually an employer or not had a tax ID number, had a registered bank. It looks legit. Like I don't need a liar loan to get this guy qualified. He's got 710 credit scores. He's always got perfect credit money in the bank on his job, cancel checks, bank statements. He's good. He's always got perfect credit, money in the bank, honest job, canceled checks,

bank statements. He's good. He's a solid conventional customer. I don't need loose guidelines. He could have gotten that loan 10 years earlier. He could get it to this day. Every one of my guys were perfect. So I'm being, and people start blaming, making these comments like this is the reason that the economy is collapsing because of people like you. Like are you insane? My little tiny – I was stealing from the people who are doing this. Yeah, my little $15 million is nothing compared to that.

And here's the thing. When the FBI shows up, they're saying you've got $55 million. They're saying $15 million that you're personally responsible for for your scam in Ivor City and while you were on the run, plus $40 million that went through. What are they getting the $40? It's like ghost dope. Well, the continuing scheme, if they could tie in one piece of any of his $15 million, if they can, we can, then we're going to continue that scheme and add the economic loss. He doesn't even know what happened and he knows what happens. So he knows what this –

It's a great piece that we can do. It's not a great piece, but it's a great piece for us. Basically, what happened, like three or four, they interviewed all my mortgage brokers. And they're like, oh, we're doing a two, $3 million a month. And I'd say, I don't know, maybe 60% or 70% of that is fraud. Oh, okay, $2 million, 60% of that times how long did Matt own the business? $40 million. Like, that's it. It's like ghost dope.

They catch you with a little bit of dope you know what ghost dope is no some guy's selling a little bit of cocaine to and you they catch you and then of course they talk to two of the other guys you've been selling to they go i've been buying this much a week from him for the last five years and they add it up next thing you know you've got a 20 20 kilo conspiracy you're like what's happening jim's having a trip down memory lane it's really good i'm actually very much at peace over this right and that's what they did 20 kilo conspiracy. And you're like, what's happening? Jim's having a trip down memory lane over here. I stole this guy a dime bag. I'm actually very much at peace over this. Right? And that's what they did. So I got Candace saying $40 million plus $15 million. And I'm like,

I've never... The brokers that were underneath me, I'm getting charged for their fraud. Now, they've all come in at this point, and they've all cooperated. So, when I was on the run, like Amanda's cooperated, Trina's cooperated, the brokers that helped me cooperated, everybody across the board already cooperated. The FBI, when I get there, everybody in my case in Tampa cooperated. So, there's like 12 to 14 people that were indicted on my indictment, but they're unnamed co-conspirators. So it's like KB, CJ, TY. Now, I know DW. I know who DW is. But the public doesn't. That's the point. Right. And so what's so funny about those people is they're listed like that.

And so many of those same people will say to this day, like, I never got in trouble. I didn't do anything wrong. You were on my indictment, bro. Like, so what happened was they caught me. They've got everything. They know everything. And I'd love to sit here and say, like, I only told them what they already knew. Like, if I had buried every one of those dudes, if they kept their mouth shut, I'd have cut every one of those dudes' throats. Unfortunately, unfortunately. You were the last one standing.

I was the last one. And so that one didn't help. And the second thing that didn't help was the fact that the entire economy is slowly starting to collapse. So, you know, it's, and this ultimately happens, right? Ultimately what happens is after they leave, they say, you know, we're investigating it. We're looking into it. My prosecutor comes to my lawyer and says, listen, Mr. Cox has cooperated. He's going to get a 5K. We will consider his cooperation for a 5K1, which means a sentence reduction. They'll reduce my sentence. To the judge directly from the prosecutor.

Right. And 99.99.99% of the time, the judge is going to go with it. Like almost 100%. Yes. Have you ever even heard? I've never heard of a 5K not being considered and acted upon right now is he going to give him exactly what still about 99 you know he's going to give it to him you know what i'm saying so i felt pretty confident because they said they'd consider it and substantial assistance is helping the government so they said we'll consider this

these two substantial assistance cool she said also we want mr cox to be interviewed by dateline and i was like told my lawyer oh i don't they're gonna make me look bad like they already did one one hour special on me they it was horrible you know um they wanted you to that's a part of their stipulation well it was it was just they just asked let's say they requested it so you tell me i have to be in front of a judge with this u.s attorney going in front of the judge do do i want to say yes i want a reduction and oh by the way fuck you as far as you're exactly have me interviewed no right if they said look mr cox from now on we're going to want you to wear your jumpsuit backwards i'd be like of course i'm i'm

embarrassed i haven't been doing that this whole time. I'm sorry you had to ask me. So the point is, is that they asked me to be interviewed. They said they thought it would help. It would help reduce crime. It would show people the seriousness of this. You're going to make people love it. And it would put her in the spotlight, period.

So she gets hired by the huge defense firm or white-collar firm. Beautiful. And Gail McKenzie, by the way, Gail McKenzie had been a young prosecutor. This is what my lawyer had told me, and I may have this slightly off, but I'm pretty sure I'm 99% sure that – accurate on this. At one point, she had been a young prosecutor. She was prosecuting someone for fraud and they were Russians and they actually poisoned her. Oh, shit. So she ended up in the hospital.

So when people say, well, it's just fraud, she would get extremely offended. Fraud leads to violence. It leads to – like she took it to heart and she stayed a prosecutor and became a prosecutor the whole time. And her specialty the entire time was fraud. Not good for you. No, no, no. So I get – so I end up doing Dateline. So I do Dateline with –

From prison? Well, from – yeah, I was in the U.S. Marshals holdover. Because if you were in the Bureau's custody, the Federal Bureau of Prisons, they will not let a camera in. But the U.S. Marshals will. Why is that? I don't know. Oh, I know why the bureau won't because of um conditions club fed there was a there was a there was a uh was it is it 2020 who was

barbara walters with 2020 2020 i think she was 2020 yeah so they did something called club fed yeah that's her that's the that's the uh prosecutor that's. Yeah, that's her. That's the prosecutor? That's my prosecutor. Okay. That's on the screen right there. So – Yikes. Yeah, not –

She's not a looker. No. And she was pissed about it. She was very angry. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to be mean, but – She looks like her best days were behind her, unfortunately. I guess you were like one

of her last hurrahs or was she hanging in there i don't know i i many many people came to prison after i was in prison that would that we had to say oh from her oh yeah she's not dead yet she's dead now okay she's dead now um but it's funny too because when my when my attorney told me that she had passed away she was like don't say anything negative on this email. But Gail McKenzie passed away. And I remember I said, I'm indifferent. I said like – I mean she – in her mind, she did the right thing. Yeah, I mean you were guilty as you say.

You were guilty of every single thing you were convicted of. Yeah, no doubt. Yours is a pretty open-shut case. Yeah, I'd love the hater but what are you gonna what am i gonna do with you when you're right and i'm wrong yeah so um so anyway what what ends up happening is i do i do dateline and uh you know not a great episode this is the second time you know they edit it so i'm actually smiling and chuckling at parts where i wasn't smiling and chuckling oh man that's yeah yeah you know

that's up but once again didn't have a lot of like to stand on not like you know you didn't get final cut on that yeah this guy you know what a jerk um and he frustrated me a few times like i'd never been really interviewed. Who was it? Do you remember the guy? Yeah, it was the guy. He's like, is he – Talks real slow. Canadian.

He's got white hair. Yes. I do know. 2020 it was? No, no. Deadline? No, this is Dateline. Dateline.

I do – the other thing I was going to tell you, nice move. He's got like a horse face, like a long – I know exactly. Nice job on the email because there's a case, one of my old high school buddies, similar type of deal. It was Mike McGrath, gets prosecuted, convicted, goes to prison, same type of thing. The prosecutor had some issues. So his lawyer wrote, hey, so-and- just had something something bad happened in the guy's life he wrote back good because i tattooed he tattooed the ausa's the prosecutor's initials prior to this

with a like a kill sign oh no yeah now they find it guess what 10 more years yeah oh so i mean think about that's nice job on that yeah i'm not not reaching out and being like this or whatever no listen i've already seen people she already got her punishment people are i've already seen people get up for barely saying anything that's it and that doesn't matter or on those prison phones and honestly i was i was indifferent like i i don't i don't hate you i just went out of prison yeah like you did what you're doing your job that's fine so um how long from keith morris is that the name of the guy keith morris dateline let's check it out how long after you were arrested until him that's oh that's the dude yeah yeah yeah that's the guy what a jerk so this is a guy on the the screen. This is the guy. These are the kinds of things he did.

Like he's professional. Like he knows what he's doing. I have no clue. And he would do stuff like this. You hurt a lot of people. And I'd go, well, I financially inconvenience some people. But I mean, I don't think I hurt any. And he's like, you hurt a lot of people.

And I was, I said, I didn't hurt anybody. You hurt a lot of people. And I said, I didn't hurt anybody. You hurt a lot of people. And I go, I mean, why are you – I didn't physically harm anybody. You hurt a lot of people. And I go, listen, apparently – I said, you're stuck on the word hurt. So, yeah, I hurt a lot of people. I said, can we move on? You gave him what you wanted.

Guess what made the clip? You hurt a lot of people. Yeah, I hurt a lot of people i said can we move on you gave them what you guess what i guess what made the clip you hurt a lot of people yeah i heard a lot of people can we move on there you go yeah oh dipsy do oh that's the kind of thing this is pre-media matt cox this is me not knowing what i'm doing and and keep in mind you know they edit it and when it's done you're going oh my god that's not what happened and people when you got the other inmates going damn bro you're like a psychopath i'm like you kidnapped someone and tortured him you hurt you hurtful son of a bitch you hurt some people and so you have financially inconvenient um so anyway um so yeah so i i end up going to the – so I remember when the FBI shows up, right? This is Candace. Candace is already like six foot tall.

So she did come to visit you. Not visit me. She interrogated me. It wasn't visit. We weren't friends. She didn't get me a hamburger out of the machine. Did she turn you on? What?

I felt like there was a thing between you two. Last time with the phone calls and everything, there was a thing between you two last time with the phone calls and everything there's a lot of sexual tension going on i'm just saying you said she had a nice rack so she did have a she did have a big fit big set of fake see but she's a giant and i'm tiny and i don't know if you're into that you might be i'm not so what happens is she worth the climb she no so she she comes and she gets me and walks me and and i remember when i walked in i took she took the handcuffs off me and i rubbed my wrist and she goes do your wrist hurt and i go yeah she goes get used to it and i was just like oh my god and i was just, I mean, non every snide comment she could make.

She made one after another, after another. You've been frustrating her for like six years. So I hear. And I remember I remember my attorney at one point even said, hey, do we have to can we stop with the mean spirited comments? She was honestly, you know, can we try and be professional? And she was she was just I need you to on a podcast. She was she she you know, can we try and be professional? And she was just – I need you two on a podcast. She was – oh, she disliked me. She didn't find me comical at all.

Do we have a picture of her? Can we? Yes. Can we pull that up? I'm sure Candace is. I've seen – I've gotten a look before. Can we pull up a picture of Candace? That's a Secret Service agent.

No, that's his – What was her last name? Candace? Candace Calderon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is Andrea Peacock. Very polite, very nice, very professional. Yeah.

Candice Calderon. I think I saw her LinkedIn after last time. Did you? Yeah, I'm pretty sure. She was teaching at like a shooting range or some shit. Yeah, like personal self-defense. Yeah, there she is. There she is.

She's older now. Yeah. Yeah, it's not good and that's your former fucking co-worker pal and she was wearing heels there she is with my director are you serious of her there's louis louis free oh yeah yeah size of her wow yeah she is tall yeah she's, big chick. You're looking up at her. And aggressive and angry. Shoot the gun. Listen, that's her in her 50s. Squat and stop smiling. Just pull the trigger.

Imagine her in her late 30s, early 40s. No. Listen, she was a looker. She did look a lot better in her LinkedIn picture. Is that her LinkedIn right there? No. No. No, that's not her. No. Listen, she was a looker. She did look a lot better in her LinkedIn picture. Is that her LinkedIn right there? No. No. No, that's not her.

No. Okay. She used to have one. I don't know. I've definitely seen it because that's not what she looked like. I definitely saw some of these pictures. I remember something about shooting, but that's not what – she's wearing sunglasses and stuff there.

I think she's looking purposely tough, too. None of those are her. That's not her, Rick. Higher former FBI and stuff there. I think she's looking purposely tough too. None of those are her. That's not her, Rick. Higher former FBI agent. All right. We'll continue on. So she's staying in there. She's making snide comments left and right.

Yeah, she's making snide comments. She didn't like me. So we talk. We do the several days, and then eventually that's over. Then I do the dateline, Morrison, Morris, whatever his name is, Keith. Keith comes and sees me. That whole thing goes bad. Then I'm waiting because my lawyer had said if you're interviewed by the Secret Service and FBI and you do the dateline interview, they'll consider it substantial assistance.

And U.S. attorney will reduce your sentence. Great. So you're coming off 32. What. attorney will reduce your sentence. Right. So you're coming off 32. What are you thinking in your head? Well, first, I get my PSI and it says 32 years. So I get my pre-sentence report, right? Like a probation officer comes and you answer a bunch of questions like, you know, you know, you know, whatever. You know, how was you grew up?

You know, how did you grow up? Where did you grow up? Your brothers, sisters? So I tell them everything, all the questions. And then, of course, they talk to the US attorney and say, well, what did he do? What's he pled guilty to? Well, how much money? What's the dollar amount? How many people was he in charge of? And then they start, they rack up. Real quick, to all my Discord people out there, the Julian Dory Discord is officially officially live i put the link down in the description below so go hit that join the community and say what's up there's all kinds of

features in there and i look forward to hearing from you guys let's get it popping so my base level offense was about six or seven years right so might just which is significant even on the baseline well that's because i had prior guideline was right so your guideline goes his criminal history these things and then they build on that right and if i just like what jim said was like like look if i didn't have a criminal history it wouldn't have been six years not it would have been close yeah it would have been a couple years right you know and if you get the right choice you might even get probation yeah maybe so but i got six years that's fine but then you say okay well but what he did was sophisticated okay so that's two extra points and um how do they and he was the leader of this scheme right so he was the one who came up they find and define and sophisticated they said so so very

listen it's but I mean honestly it was more sophisticated than me just – Yes. So it's not like I can – You were a very good fraudster. Trust me. I argued, made all those arguments with my lawyer. My lawyer is like, seriously? You don't think that you obtained people's identities?

You obtained driver's license? You obtained their bank statements? You obtained this? Created a bank. You created this? You created – yeah, you created – Invented jobs at the Salvation Army. Yeah, yeah. Credit at the salvation army credit reports i was like all right right enough with you so i've had enough of this move on then it was you know leader organizer then it was how many people were you over even

though those people were all indicted and their names weren't weren't listed right so they don't have actually people doesn't matter you were in charge of more than 10 people okay um then you were you know then it was you changed jurisdictions to evade detection right because i i did during the scheme i was doing stuff in one county in another county in another county all over and then you're all over states and on the run and then i took off on the run too and continue to commit fraud so your fraud continued and jurisdiction. Okay. Then it was, bro, it just, honestly, it just goes on and on. And so it ends up being 18 years of enhancements on top of the six. So you're sitting 24 now. So you're way up in the 50s on your guideline. Plus two years for aggravated identity theft. So it really was 30. So it came up to 32 years. But two of the enhancements we argued. So because when I got

the 32-year PSI, I flipped out. I said, I'd rather go to trial. Might as well go to trial. At least at trial, I can argue these things and try and mitigate the circumstances. I said, maybe I'll get less than 32 years. So there's no benefit for me if I'm getting the max right now. And I said, I can at least argue. And so of course she went back to the U.S. attorney. U.S. attorney came back and said, okay, listen, I'm sending the secret service agent down there. You guys can talk about it. She already had a number in mind, right? So I go in, we argue. I'm like, there was just a couple of the enhancements that just didn't apply, that I felt didn't apply. And so they dropped some of these enhancements, one or two of them, right?

And then my lawyer said, so it got down to where it was 26 years and four months. And my lawyer said, look, this enhancement, this one, and there were like four enhancements. She's, I'm going to argue those in front of the judge, which you're allowed to. We're going to get those taken off and you're going to be at 12 years. Then you're going to get a reduction. Yeah. She said you were going to be down to 12. 12 to 13. Yes. Roughly. Cause it's a range. So she can't guarantee the low end. Yeah. So they could argue for the high end and maybe it's almost 14 years. was like, whatever, 13 and 10 months. God, they play with years in a fucking 15-minute hearing like it's nothing. It's all months.

So it's even more like – Yeah, because now you got to do math. You got to do math and they're constantly like, well, you got six months. You only got – it's all for a reason. So I say, okay. I'm like, okay. So she's like, oh, she's like, look, let me give you an example. And she reads the example. Is that what you did? And I was like, no, that's not it at all. And she's like oh she's like look let me give you an example and she reads the example is that what you did and i was like no that's not it at all she's like right

that's a slam dunk we'll win that nice oh never good when your lawyer says slam dunk it's it seemed like a slam dunk though like one of them she said this enhancement this enhancement is it was an enhancement for um oh it was using a charitable institution or government institution in furtherance of your crime and they said because i had worn a i had a salvation army id so i had an id that said i worked for the salvation army with your with your one and post i want to picture on right. I wanted a picture on it, right. Can we pull up Matt Cox's wanted picture? Keep going. So because of that, they said that – and the example they give, they give a very specific example.

They said if you were going and saying, hey, I'm collecting money on behalf of the Cancer Society and you gave me $50. And then I went and I did that throughout a whole neighborhood for two weeks and I got $50,000 total. I would have been using the Cancer Society to get money. So I'm borrowing on behalf of this Cancer Society. She goes, is that what you did? And I was like, no. I'm like, I had a badge. Like that was it. And these people, that badge meant nothing to these people. Nobody ever saw or they they gave me their information case i gave them 20 bucks that was it so anyway what ends up happening is so that was there was there were like three of those so we get in front of the judge my lawyer argues one enhancement the judge goes, nah, I disagree, overruled. And I'm like, right then, you just add like four years on your sentence. And then the next one, boom, same thing.

Bam, another four or five years. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like I'm realizing like that's just my 12 just shot up to fucking six. 12 went to 16. 16 just went to 21 um and then when they got to the badge one she said your honor he didn't he was giving people money he was this he was like he wasn't doing it and the judge went yeah but i feel he tarnished their name boom and i'm like and then he he rambles off the whole thing and he says – oh, yeah. Oh, wait, wait, wait. Sorry.

I missed something. Damn. I never tell this part of the story, so I'm not as good at it. You're doing great. I forget. Keep going. So here's the thing. The night before the sentencing, I tell my – I call my attorney and I say, hey, did you ever find out what Gail McKenzie, the U.S. prosecutor, has agreed to reduce my sentence by?

What's the motion she's going to make for a reduction? Is she going to ask for one level off, five levels off? Because each level represents so many months, right? It gets progressively worse. And she said, yeah, Matt, I did talk to her. And she said that nobody has been arrested yet. So because nobody's been arrested, they're not going to recommend that your sentence be reduced. And I said, but what about I was also in I was also, you know, did the Dateline interview.

And she said, yeah, I know. But she said, it's just not enough which is bullshit because it's about your it's not about results that's up to the government to make results with regards to his information that he provided it's his intention to provide information to the government so that's bullshit now could a lawyer argue that in court they could but remember the the judge – He had a public defender. He also has – he obviously has a judge that's –

I'm in the 11th Circuit, too. Yeah. He's in the worst place he could possibly be, judge-wise. So it actually says if you helped either get arrests or indictments, arrests, or further the investigation. That's right. So just by helping and moving it forward. That's assistance, substantial assistance. Yeah.

Not according to Gail McKenzie. So what ends up happening is – That's fucked up. So I go in there. We make the arguments to get 26 years down to about 12 years. And I'm thinking, okay, get it to 12 years. And when they arrest some of these people, I'll get my sentence cut by at least half. Like that's what I'm thinking, half. Usually it's about a third, but back then I'm daydreaming. I'm

like, no, at least a third. I mean, at least a half. So what happens is, yeah, and I have the RDAT program. So I was able, I was going to get a year off because I had talked to some guys in prison. They said, say you're a drug addict. And I like when that when i did a psi i was like i'm addicted to opiates i love them love them don't know anything about them couldn't tell you anything about them luckily this guy asked nothing so what ends up happening is the judge says you know he says some really unflattering things about me what did he say know, he said I was borderline, I think, I don't know if it's sociopathic or psychopathic, but I was borderline, a borderline psychopath. He said that what I did was very personal. He said, because unlike a CEO who cooks the books, my crimes had a very personal effect on people.

I'm pretty sure that the people that cooked the books that destroyed the economy had more of an effect on people than the few people that lost a little bit of money and paid an attorney. To be clear out there, and people can listen to the first two episodes, because obviously you were guilty of everything you did and you had to go away. Like there's no questions there. But your main victims were like the financial institutions. I have four. Because the people who you stole identities from, I mean you got to get punished for that too. But like they got their shit back.

So I had over 50 victims, right? Really, it's like 52 victims because one of the things they did was they double counted some of the victims. And I mean victims. I mean like Bank of America. So they said, oh, you stole $300,000 from Countrywide and you stole $250,000 from Countrywide Home Loans. Oh, who like crashed the whole walls yeah but but listen let's hear what they said to get me over the 50 mark you stole four hundred thousand dollars from country-wide bank you stole 250 000 fromwide Financial Services, and you stole $1 million from Bank of America.

So – and I'm like, wait a minute. Bank of America bought Countrywide. Wait a minute. That's one – and they said, no, no, no. Each one of those is a different institution. And then – oh, listen. Do you want to know what my other enhancements was? Listen to this.

So you stole more than a million dollars from one financial institution and i go who countrywide i said what are you talking about you said 400,000 200,000 400,000 yes but for these purposes we're gonna start with it starts with countrywide you stole it yeah we because they were all purchased by bank of america America. Bank of America was defrauded for over a million dollars. It's actually two million. But the point is that they hit me with that. So it was like, and my lawyer, the whole time I'm looking at my lawyer like, can they do that? She's like, they can't.

And it's like, thank God you're here. So anyway, what ends up happening is- Surprised you didn't fire her in the courtroom. Once again, she's a very nice person. She is very nice. You don't care about that. You're looking for years off. I know, but she really – she didn't have – there was nothing she could do.

Plus she had seven million other cases in the public defender's office, so she could – Genuinely, when I got 26 years, she started crying. And she'd been doing it 15 years. And look, the judge was just brutal to me. Didn't you put his quote on the front of your book? Of course I did. One of his quotes was – in front of my book, my favorite quote of all time is the – what does it say? It's right there.

It's the scope, complexity, and nefariousness of cox's fraud are breathtaking i love that on the front of the fucking book i love his wanted poster uh so the one on the left was the was a salvation army picture that's before before hair to the hair transplants and we'll put the book and we'll put the Wounded poster in the corner of the screen simultaneously. Yeah. Look at the hair. That's like. Back to back.

So sad. Yeah. Look at the hair. That's post plugs, right? Yeah. And that's also me trying to cover it. So see how I'm parting it in the middle, like pulling it over. Well, no.

I was going to say the one on the left looks like it's post plugs, but the one on the right looks like it's not. Both of them are. Really? Yeah. Wow. Somehow you're still looking all right on the left. No. You post plugs but the one on the right looks like it's not both of them are really yeah wow you're looking somehow you're still looking all right on the left no you understand i'm pulling it like this i'm doing it in the middle and i'm covering it went way back you just can't see it because i'm parting in the middle look at that part who parts their hair in the middle matt cox matthew bevin cox so wow gerald scognon. So she starts – lawyer starts crying in court.

Yeah. Like she – so listen, I end up leaving. Look, and I'm – I was crying like a small child, like a baby. Did you have family in the courtroom? Yes. My mom's in tears. My dad is – he's just irritated in general. But yeah.

Oh, yeah. Just, you know, I have two aunts that listen. One of my aunts who my aunt and her husband have a ton of money. Okay. They live in Atlanta. So they went and she spoke. God bless her. She is in.

She is an entitled white woman, right? And she said, Your Honor, I pay taxes, and this is a waste of my money to put him in prison. Oh, Lord. Please stop. Please stop her. And genuinely said it and genuinely thought. I really helped him here. Yeah.

What a solid I just did my next. Yes. And I just was like. I thought you were getting emotional for a minute. I thought she was going to be saying something like nice. Not good. Oh, thank you, Auntie. Aunt Catherine, I appreciate it, but dear God.

Please be quiet. Next. So anyway, nothing appreciate it, but dear God. Please be quiet. Next. So anyway, nothing that anybody could have said at all was going to change anything. But the point is, of course, I waddle off. I've got my little cuffs on and I waddle off. You have the feet cuffs too. Yeah, of course. And I go all the way down and they put me in the U.S. Marshals in the holdover.

And, of course, my lawyer comes down and says, how are you doing? And I'm like, well, we have to appeal this. And she's like, oh, you signed a waiver saying you can't appeal. And I was like, when did I sign that? Attorney mispractice, malpractice. I mean, I'm desperate. So she's like, look, it doesn't matter. They're still investigating these crimes. When they indict these people, your time will be reduced. And I'm like, yeah, but it's not how much is going to get reduced half and even if it's unknown it's still 13 years at half i'm like what's going on like i'm flipping out like i and she's like don't worry it's it's going to be okay it's going to be okay and it's not going to be okay how long considering two things here considering the all the things the judge ended up rolling out that

you didn't think he would right and then also considering the fact that you were counting on getting time eventually taken off your sentence too. What was your mindset before this happened going into it? Were you thinking like, all right, this is going to be like six years, five years? Yeah. I thought genuinely I'll be out of prison in about three more – I'd already done a year. I got arrested November 16th, sentenced a year later on November 16th. So I figure I got a year in. I figure even if I get four or five years, I'm going to go straight to a low, go to RDAP, get a year off.

I'll be out of here in three years. I might be in a halfway house in two or three years. I'm good. And now you get 26. I'm good, bro. I filled out some paperwork. They don't give people 20, 30 years. I'm good. And now you get 26. I'm good, bro. I filled out some paperwork. They don't give people 20, 30 years for filling out paperwork.

Apparently they do. Damn. Oh my God, do they. So what ends up happening is, you know, I get on the bus, I go back. I remember walking into Atlanta City Detention Center and I walked in there. And I remember by that point, I had finally like cleaned myself, like like not got myself together.

Let's put that clean myself up, got myself together. Like I wasn't like I was like almost for probably 10 minutes. I was just like couldn't stop crying. But by the time I got back, I was OK. You know, it had been an hour. You're put in a little bus. You know, they move you back. They have to uncuff you and go through all the process again. It takes fucking – by the time they even drop you off at the center, it's an hour before you're back at your pod. As soon as I walked in my pod, I had just been on the news.

And literally, they were like, you don't understand. You were off the news for like two minutes when you guys – me and six other guys walk in. We're all chained together, right? And we waddle in and I look up and these guys are like literally 150 guys do this from the TV. And they're just looking at me. I mean, guys are literally going like shaking their head, putting their head down, walking away just like – and I immediately start crying again. Just because I realized like if you guys are upset how upset how bad is this like these guys are genuinely these guys i've known them for six months because i was another jail

before that for six months so or another u.s marshal's holdover they moved me um the point is is that you know these guys are upset and i listen i went into my room and laid down and guys are walking in like every two minutes going bro man co man, Cox, it's got, I know it sounds bad, but you're going to be able to figure a smart guy. You're going to get yourself out of this. You're going to figure something out. You're going to, yeah, I know. Look, and you're like, yeah, I just got fucked. I'm done. I'm sitting there like, I'm done. Guys are telling me, bro, I'm not going to forget about you, bro. I've got a couple of years. Like, oh, I've already already you always get this too um guys will come up to you and guys will say like bro like when i get out like i'll get you out and what

that means is we're gonna get you out of there you don't belong in there throw a title 20 basically they're gonna go through this rule that says i'll provide information that's helpful to him that's how for somebody to feel like that it only happened in the mafia years ago, mafia. They would do that. So you made an effect on some of these guys. Yeah. You develop relationships quick. I mean, for a 5K letter to be based on actual results that the government is

responsible for on other cases, it's unheard of. Substantial assistance is what he offered assistance what you do with it is your responsibility that is oh jim it's jim it's unbelievable this is about to get so much worse so what i mean i've got guys like a third party rule 35 a rule 35 is a 5k1 after you've been sentenced. So it's when you provide cooperation, but this is after you. So they give you, they file a 5k, a rule 35 after you've been sentenced, and they get your sentence reduced after, not at sentencing, but later. And it's being held over you because you don't know.

Right. So a third party rule 35 is when he provides and he goes and busts somebody. And for him. For me. And he says, I don't busts somebody. And for him. For me. And he says, I don't want anything. Give it to him. But I just knocked these two fucking dudes off and they just got 15 years apiece. And I don't want any credit because I don't need any.

I want Matt Cox to get time off his sentence. Okay. Real quick, let's just stop and go to the bathroom because I got to go too. Jim's going. But all right, we'll pick up right there. Yeah, bro. Now it's going to get good.

All right, we're back up right there. Yeah, bro. Now it's going to get good. All right, we're back. Go ahead. All right. So, so, you know, guys are saying all this, right? Like I end up a week or two later, I get transferred to the U.S. Marshall's holdover, which is in the Atlanta penitentiary. It was the Atlanta penitentiary. They've changed it since then, but whatever.

It was the Atlanta pen. There was a holdover. I got transferred there for like a week or so. Then I got moved to Coleman. Now, because I had 26 years, even though I have a nonviolent crime, if you have more than 20 years to serve, they have to send you to a medium security prison. So I go to a medium security prison and a medium security prison is a prison. It's just what you think of a prison. There's two tiers. The doors are thick and heavy and they lock and

they can feed you through the doors. There's bunk beds. There's a, a, um, there's a toilet and sink combo, right? Like a, you know, the silver, what do you call it? The stainless steel. Yes. Yeah, so that whole thing. So I get there. I get there and... You just want to pull that thing out? Just yank it the fuck out. We're good. There we go. My God. All right.

Anyway. And I'm not usually that guy, but boy. That was from my secret service training the inability to remove a fucking quest bar from a rapper yeah sorry we popped on camera right away my bad anyway go ahead man so so uh yeah so i get you know get off the bus of course you know and i'm shackled and everything and i get out and they they you know you go through all these people they question you that staff officers right like you medical has to talk to you. And the what's called S.I.S.

S.I.S. is like the internal security. Right. Like the FBI that polices the the police. Where's Coleman in Florida again? It's one. Coleman is one hour north of Tampa. So from Atlanta, it's a good location for you. Yeah, it was.

It was. I was lucky. So it was like four hours. Right? And so I'm like, whatever, it's like a four-hour drive. It was longer because it's a bus and they have to stop a bunch of time, whatever. So you're on the bus all day. So it's aggravating, but you get there. And so Coleman is the largest federal complex in the nation. It's got two penitentiaries, a medium security prison, a low security prison. And at that time, it was a camp. It was a female camp. It's now a male camp.

They had a female prison right there in Coleman? Trust me, nobody's getting out. It was a female camp. Nobody's getting out of the low, let alone the medium of the pen. You're just not getting out. Now, so the low isn't at all cohabitated in any way with the medium of the pen you're just not getting out now so the low isn't at all cohabitated in any way with the no no when i say a camp it's a camp but that the girls were just they mow the yard right like you have just enough people to basically maintain this massive ground isn't this where you met your wife yeah but not when she was not when she was no my reg number is four zero one seven no put me up on dateline oh there are guys that do that so

what ends up happening is is uh i go there whatever i'm there i actually had a cousin there named reese reese was super interesting guy and so when i got there the funny thing is my immediate thought process was escape but after being there for even a few weeks, I realized you're not getting out of here. So you actually thought you would escape? I thought I've got 26 years. There's nothing keeping, there's no reason for me to not try and escape, but you know, you're not escaping from the medium. And then I thought, okay, well the low, but guys that had gone to the low and come back because guys will get their points reduced and go to the low and then up and

end up coming back right like they'll stab somebody get into a fight whatever they end up come back anyway i'm at the medium i meet my cousin we're talking and he's explaining look it's just not possible that's never going to happen you know and he said explaining, look, it's just not possible. It's never going to happen. You know? And he said, even if you went to the low, honestly, it's not going to happen. So I'm like, right. He said, and he, I was like, okay. And then I thought, okay, my best bet is that at some point after 20 years, so if you've got, you've got more than 20 years to go, right? So once you get to 20 years, they'll move me to the low. Once you get to 10 years, they'll move you to a camp. So I thought with my good time, I've got like 12 years.

I'd already been locked up a year. So I've got about 12, 12 and a half years to go. So I thought I got about 12 and a half years to go before I get moved to a camp and I'll leave then. I mean, like that's just, you know, here's what's happening is you, it's hope. It's going to say, you're just hanging on. I'm hanging on anything. It's whatever can just get me through it. The point is, is that I go there. I meet my cousin. I meet a couple of guys that I like. We hang out. You get a small group of friends. What was your cousin in for? Meth, a meth conspiracy. Got it. Um, or manufacturing meth, super smart guy. Uh, you know, he's one of those guys that like, if, if there, if it weren't for drugs, he would be a college

professor right now. Like he's just brilliant, brilliant, absolute meth addict. I mean, just, it's just devastated him. He's, it's, it's horrible, you know? And I mean, you know, and I, I, I hear you chuckling, laughing, like I chuckle and laugh too. But I also want to mention that he's – it's one of those things that's just tragic, right? So – but an absolute hilarious guy. I mean – A Cox? Hilarious? Come on.

Listen, he's so funny. And I mean in just this backwoods country, florida kind of way kind of like like when he he tracked me down at the medium he he looks exactly what you think he looks like he's tall thin missing teeth long hair skinny total meth meth head now even off meth he looks like he's on that and i mean he comes to my cell and he opens the door steps in he looks at me and he goes he goes matt cox and i go and i look up and i go yeah he goes his name's towns and restart he's reese townsend how you doing puts his hand out i go hey reese i'm your cousin and i go not by blood he's no you got lucky there you got lucky and i shake his hand and I go, well, how are you doing? Well, I just want to, I just want to make sure you're okay.

You have everything. I feel like I got everything. Well, I got you some shower slides and I got you some soup. Come over to my place tonight. Your place, your cell, my house, where I live. Do mess with me. He, he brings me over there. He's got a whole bunch of stuff, a little bag full of stuff that he's got for me. It's like a little kit. A little welcome kit. Welcome kit. Lots of guys do that, especially Spanish guys tend to do it. They're the best at it. You show up.

You've got soups. You've got a lock. You've got shower slides. You've got everything you need until you can pay them back. That's it. They take care of those. That's a little bit of a loan shark cake too. No, not initially.

Okay. But anyway, give us time. Anyway, yeah, he gave me a bunch of stuff. Super good guy. Made my time really much easier. I immediately, within a month, I was teaching GED classes. And probably just as I was kind of wrapping up the last three years. So here's something I'll mention.

I owed $6 million. That's what I ended up arguing my sentence down. They said I owed nine and a half. First, of course, they said you owe 15. Then it was 11 and a half. Then it got down to you owe nine and a half. Then I argued so much that they said, fine, we'll make it six million. So what initially brought it from 15 to 11?

I just argued. Just argued. I want to see the paperwork. I want to see where the loss is. I want to see where you sold the house. There's no way that there was that much of a loss. I know for a fact that this house sold for more money than I actually bought it, which would come off of my time. That would come off of my loss amount. I want to see that. And the FBI would not send the documents. So we're coming up on my sentencing and the FBI is not cooperating. So they finally buckled and they said, fine, six years. Okay.

And my lawyer is like the next – because it goes in levels. Like the next level down was like had to be less than like three million. She goes, can you get it below three million if we get to the paperwork no no so jim does this sound standard like they overshoot it that much just kind of like hoping that he won't fight it yeah i think it sounds like just kind of paralyzing him with numbers. Right. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

But there's something else that bothers me a little bit about it. What's that? Well, just I think the ability to drop down that quickly. There's something more than that. I have a bad feeling about the case. And you weren't involved in this one? I was not involved. We got to say that.

Okay. It's to say that. Okay. It's a little bit – sometimes you have some incompetence that leads to having to make some concession. Yeah. As opposed to having a lid tight case, which doesn't really sound like there was some opportunities for you there. Well, I think also think had you had the had you had maybe um i don't even want to say that it's not i don't know what i don't know what your situation was with defense attorney wise but if you get a guy like michael critchley if you had a guy like michael critchley here in new jersey you walk you i think you walk i'm assuming

you have to pay him yeah yeah you really gotta. You didn't do anything for free. No. I need free. They took my money. But I think I've told this story before. This guy, I would spend a year on a case. And I'm not patting myself on the back, but I was a pretty good agent. And I would walk into a trial that he was opening for. And he was going after representing his client vigorously and the opening would get done and i'd usually say shit i might have fucked this case up

so i'm saying it i think this guy's innocent you know the jury's like that guy didn't do shit you know you idiot fbi agent yeah i. Sometimes we save the day. Sometimes we wouldn't. I think psychologically here, the issue is that you admittedly, like, in front of court, were guilty of all these things. So it's easy. They have all the psychology on their side to do something. But what did he have with Critchley? He would have never gotten to that level. Yeah. So he would have never been talking to them.

And basically, they would have just been. But, you know, I mean, also, you're looking at another million and a half dollars. No, they wouldn't give me any of my money. Any of that money I rightfully stole. You rightfully stole. I rightfully stole that money. Fine arts degree got it. Then they took it.

And with that crazy Salvation Army picture, I mean I don't know how much we could have done. I love that picture. I need that picture. That's the best thing ever. So what happens is – so I remember I went – I still owe like $6 million. So do you know what FRP is? It's basically you have to – is it FRP? Federal Repayment Program.

Okay. All right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you have to make payments, right? Even when you're in prison, you have to make payments, right? Even when you're in prison, you have to make payments. So they give you a job and you make like $12 an hour doing your job and they want you to pay $150 a month. You know what I'm saying? It's like – You only make $12 an hour?

Or do you make that much, I mean? A month. Oh, a month. I was going to say. No. Because they like pay nothing in prison is what I always thought. Yeah, yeah. I thought you said $12 an hour.

I probably did. What the fuck? I'm sorry. So I go to my counselor and I remember we're sitting there. Within a day or so, I'm at my counselor. I've got to sell and I go to the counselor because you have to see them. And so I sat there and she says, Mr. Cox, she says – she looks through and she asked me some questions, whatever. And she says, okay, you owe like $6 million.

And I was like, right. She said, well, you have to pay. You're going to have to pay FRP. And I went, well, no, no. I said, I don't have to pay FRP. I said, first of all, I said, I have no money. She goes, I know. She said, but I'm sure you'll get money sent in. I said, nobody's sending me money in. And she said, well, look, once you get a job and you get going, you're going to have to pay that. I said, listen, she said, we're going to have to put you on a payment program. I said, look, let me explain. I said, there's only one thing that my lawyer won at sentencing. I said, and that was that I did

not have to pay my FRP while incarcerated. It does not start until after I get out of prison. I said, it starts upon probation. And she goes, I've never heard of that before. I said, listen, this woman argued everything. She won. She only won, I think I said two things. One, probation. And she goes, I've never heard of that before. I said, listen, this woman argued everything. She won. She only won, I think I said, two things. One, I don't have to pay interest on the $6 million, which she did argue that was the only thing she won. And I said, nor do I have to start paying until I get out. And she goes, okay, well, I'll look into it and I'll let you know.

I said, okay. And I left. That's untrue. Like, that was not true. So, I, but, well, I'll look into it and I'll let you know. I said, okay. And I left. That's untrue. Like I, that was not true. So I, I, but I figured, fuck it. I thought she was going to say you owe $25. And I was still trying to get my mom. My mom was going to send me like 50 bucks so I could just get like, you know, not even

sneakers, but get like shower slides and some coffee. So what ends up happening is probably a couple months, a month or two later, her name was Miss Bates. She dies. So Miss Bates dies, and I get called in by my next counselor. Maybe a couple – you have to get called in like every six months, right? How'd she go? Oh, she was a heavy smoker. She was probably only in her early 50s, but she was a real heavy smoker. Really nice lady, but heavy smoker, not in good health.

Matt, you got to pay off, boy. Three packs a day. Oh, you fucking FIP. Three packs a day. You can't smoke in federal prison, and she smoked in federal prison. You can't smoke in federal prison? I didn't know that. No.

No, not in federal government. Any federal government buildings? Nothing. She wasn't offering you a toke or something? Well, listen, this woman, this is three packs day this is she didn't even need a lighter she's one of those from one to the next it's a chain smoker died in her sleep so uh a few few months later i my next my somebody's hands around her neck my new counselor comes and so he says to me hey bro like cox you're supposed to be paying frp why aren't you paying

and i said i said well because my lawyer made this argument blah blah blah i don't have to pay till i'm this i said miss bates checked it out she i said she saw it i said and i don't she said i don't have to pay and i said check it out i said it's in my file my file's right here my file's this thick and it's right here. I go, check it out. And he goes, yeah, I will. I will. And he says, all right. He said, well, you know, I'll check it out.

I'll let you know. I said, okay. I leave. Eight months later, I have, we have what's called team. We go to team. Unit manager's there. Counselor is there. And whatever, some other idiots there.

And we're sitting there and we're sitting there and they're all asking me, well, you know, God, gosh, you got forever, bro. You know, geez, I don't know. There's not much we can even tell you how to. They tried to tell you how to prepare to get out. They're like, you know, Matt, you got a college degree. You're teaching GED. You're teaching the real, I'm teaching the real estate class at this point, by the way.

I teach residential real estate for about 30, 40 guys. And I don't ever go off the lesson manual and teach the little Mac Cox manual? You could in the medium because those guys won't tell on you, right? Like openly tell on you. Like you can say, look, I'm going to show you how to hide a down payment. And they'd be like, holy shit. Oh, I do all kinds of stuff. So I would do that.

And not just that. What was great about that was that these guys don't want that. Let's say if there's 35 guys in the class, 25 of them don't even want to be there. Right. So maybe 20 of them don't want to be there. So I would tell them like, listen, bro, if you all don't want to be here, leave. Like leave. I know you want your certificate.

So I'll fill out all the paperwork. I'll do all the tests. You give me two coffees and like three creamers or two creamers and so I'm literally I had my my was packed so I don't need my mom to send me money because I've got this going on so you know or go get me commissary for this or whatever they no problem Cox gotcha, Cox, gotcha. So, so that's fine. So when I get called in, they're like, one, you know, Cox, like you, they're asking me all these questions and they're like, look, you're not paying, you're on F, why aren't you on FRP refusal? I go, why would I be? And they're like, because you're not paying your FRP. And I said, I don't have to pay my FRP.

And you don't understand, they automatically take it out of your account. They're like, it's never been set up. I go, it hasn't been set up because. And then I explain, Mrs. Bates, this is what happened. She checked it out. That's it. I said, then Mr. Johnson or Mr. I think his name is like Hernandez or something. Mr. Hernandez checked it out.

I said, I said, and he agreed. I don't have to pay it. Now, keep in mind, he's sitting right here. And he goes, yeah, yeah. It's in his file. His lawyer made this argument. And he doesn't have to pay interest or his restitution. He goes, well, he pays when he gets out on probation.

And they're like, oh, okay. Okay, cool. I get up and they go, okay, you're good. I leave. A year later, I come in. Well, six months later, another counselor meeting. I got a new counselor now. Why aren't you paying FRP?

I said, man, you guys need to make a note, bro. I said, here's what happened. Boom, boom, boom. I go through it again. He's like, okay, well, I'll check it out. I said, all right, man. My next team, this time, luckily, when I walk in and they say, Cox, you're not paying. Oh, that's right.

You don't have to pay. That's right. No, he doesn't have to pay. Yeah, yeah, I remember. Okay. I get up and leave. This goes on for three years. I never make a payment. So I then get transferred to the low. By the time I get transferred to- How far in is this? Three years. By the time I get transferred to the low, this is just before I get transferred to the low. It's been years.

So it's been a couple of years. Let's say two years in. So I get a year and a half, a year in the U.S. Marshals holdover. Then I get sentenced. I've been in two years. One day, I start getting letters from a reporter. And the reporter says, will you answer some questions about this politician that you brought – or that I understand that you helped get him elected. And the FBI asked me about it, and I had – I gave him like 21 grand. His whole campaign was run on like $30,000, and I paid him 21,000.

When was this? That's how I do it bro i he's can you toss that on there play move before i forget to tell you that sorry so you have to you have to understand that that i owned a hundred vacant lots in ybor city before i was ever arrested right so i wanted those those were all single family houses i wanted them I wanted them rezoned residential. So if I have a million dollars in lots, they're now worth three or four million dollars. And if I need to get you elected to get you to do that, that's not hard. That's an easy contribution. You get that. That's huge money. That's just good business, bribing a politician. So I bribe this politician. I get him elected. The problem is

he didn't get elected and say, okay, I'm all good. I'm elected. What happened was the FBI had investigated him because when they investigated me, they noticed that Brandon Green, James Redd, Lee Black, all these guys had contributed to his campaign. Can you remind people out there who haven't heard your story before about who these guys were? Your campaign contribution reports are showing these different people at the rate, whatever it was. Yeah, but Jim, did you hear their names? Yeah, I love it. Yeah, so I had-

Named them all after reservoir dogs. Yeah. Love it. Fake people. Mr. Pink. David Silver, William Blue, all those guys so so pink um and keep in mind too i got family members that gave him 500 bucks i've got multiple corporations that gave him thousand dollars so he can't it's like you've got tons of people have given you you know it's it only came

to about 14 000 the rest was cash but the day i pulled the money out in cash, I gave him like $7,000 in cash. The next day, he deposited $6,000 in cash. Only time he ever deposited cash, the entire time. And you can see $7,000, $6,000. So he pocketed a grand. My point is the FBI showed. So one day, a reporter writes me a letter. And he says, can I ask you some questions?

I call my lawyer. She says, absolutely. Answer his questions. I answer his questions. He writes an article. He keeps telling me, I'm going to come see you. Before I publish the article, I need to come see you. I said, okay. Then one day, I get called to the lieutenant's office. I'm like, what's up? And he throws a front cover of the St. Petersburg Times, and it's my picture on the front cover of the St. Pete Times. And it says, it's something like jailhouse or letters from a jailhouse, you know, cooperator or something. That's like, you're like, I could

work with that. Oh my God. So yeah, no, I was, I was telling you to pull up his, uh, pull up his, uh, mugshot again, the woman poster, but yeah. Okay, keep going. So what happens is – like that's not good. That doesn't make me look good. So what happens is they throw me in the shoe. I'm in the shoe for whatever, three weeks, four weeks. I don't want to make it sound like – was it – This is solitary confinement. Yeah, it might have been 45.

It might have been 45. And this is just based on the article that came out? Yeah, because obviously – Because they're pissed. Well, they're – no, no, they're not pissed. It's that I'm clear – in the article, it clearly says that Mr. Cox is cooperating with the FBI or it was questioned by the FBI for this. Mr. Cox cooperated. And now I'm writing letters to a politician, a black politician that it – obviously, I'm trying to get indicted for bribery all right all right so fast

Matt I just want to check the audio give me one sec yeah okay so so I am a white guy in a prison that is 60 about more like 70 to 80% black who is clearly cooperating against a black politician. That's not good for me. You see, that's why they threw me in the shoe and said, Hey, you know,

like you got your own protection, your own protection. Now, by the time SIS finally saw me, I was like, look, man, I'm not worried.

You can put me back on the pot. You put me back on the, on the time SIS finally saw me, I was like, look, man, I'm not worried. You can put me back on the pot. You put me back on the on the compound. You know, nobody's going to bother me. And I remember I said I said, listen, bro. I said, listen, I said, if you scream snitch on this compound, I go half the compound would turn around. And he and SIS said more than that. He said, listen, he said 90 percent of the people in federal prison have cooperated. He said, but 100 percent of them are lying.

He said, so they're all going to be offended by what you did. And he said, OK, he said, he said, so I'll put you back on on the compound. If you have any problems, let me know. And I said, OK, cool. No problem. And I go back on the compound. And it's not like not like i was you know friendly with a bunch of people anyway like i'd only been there well i've been there a year or two a couple years anyway um nobody bothered me i think i had one guy that came up and told me that they didn't the the white the stand-up white guys

didn't want me to walk the yard anymore. And I was like, okay, well, I'm going to go walk the yard anyway. Because I just figured I'm just going to get beat up. Like I'll just get beat up. It's fine. I've been beat up before. I know you look at me and you think tough guy. But I've been beat up before.

So I thought I'll get beat up. It'll be fine. How many times have you been beat up in prison to this point? In prison at that point no i've only actually been i've only had one really really two two problems i only really had one problem physically actually got twice when i actually got one guy jammed his finger in my eye was yelling at me and hit me i'm jamming his finger in my eye another guy um he bitch slapped me i would like to say that he punched me because it sounds more manly but it sounds more manly but yeah but technically i'm i'm past that why did he bitch slap you um

because we were watching we were watching tv and he he had a sex offense not he wasn't there for a sex offense he had one in the past he had had like like a it was like a 15 year old girl or something he was 30 something years old he'd been caught she looked good i was gonna say she looked like she was i'm sure she looks like she was 18 at least but the point is is that you know he was big on calling people snitches and uh and chomos and the truth is is that he was but he was a chomo and a snitch so anyway we're watching team we were watching tv one day and some chick came on. He used to sit behind me.

I used to fuck with him nonstop. I mean, I always fucked with him. Because I figured, like, look, I have a big mouth. And I figured either you're going to shut your mouth for the next 20-something years and just get cancer and die. Or you can run your mouth and periodically somebody will bitch slap you. Which do you want to do? I thought, well, I i'm gonna run my mouth because i need to have a good time so i'm gonna make the best of this so i was watching tv one day and the guy was behind me and there was some chick walking down a beach and and i used to keep my i used to fuck with

him all the time so like people would he would say somebody would be getting released and they'd go yeah i'm getting released in like a couple months i'm not sure where i'm gonna go you know uh probably gonna go to my parents house or you know whatever and then he would chime in and be like yeah i don't know where i'm gonna go either because at that time at that time you couldn't go to a halfway house if you had a sex offense in florida and he's and i remember he said yeah i'm not even going to take halfway house and it was like you can't go to halfway qualify right so we're kind of like okay and then he was like yeah i'm not sure where i'm going to go yet and i said well i know where you're not going to go and you go

where's that and i go anywhere near a church a daycare or fuck you cock fuck you and he'd get up and walk off so one day and he's a big guy he's like six foot tall biker mustache right but we're watching we're watching tv in the what they call the cracker box like the white tv room so you never heard this true so we're watching tv and this chick's walking down the beach and he says he goes uh you wouldn't know what to do with that would you cocks and i go i got a better chance of hitting that than you do and he goes he said i want to some i'll knock your ass out and you like that and i and i said well i mean i'm a little bit old for you billy i said plus i have my high school diploma and he jumped up and bam just

bashed he hit me so hard i remember thinking that someone had walked because you would walk around with your chair over your head, right? You know, when you go to walk down to bring your chair into the CB room, you know, you don't want to, it's awkward. So they walk. I thought someone had walked in and dropped their chair on me. Like I didn't even realize he had hit me. Because you understand we were really fucked with each other. So we never got to a point where you, where it was like that. And he, even though he'd scream at me he never i never thought he was going to physically attack me um anyway yeah he did and and i remember he i i jumped up and called him a bunch of names he called me a bunch of names then he turned around and walked off okay fine i sit back down and one of the guys in the tv rooms goes bro you okay and i was like yeah fuck him he goes no no you okay and i went

yeah i'm okay he's no bro go look in the mirror you're not okay and i went i went half my eye bloodshot completely capillaries whatever blown out right and i mean i was like oh shit so i just i hid like tried to hide from the guards all for for a count i mean they i got through two counts i got through the whole thing and then then a couple of people dropped notes saying, hey, there was a fight. Cox and Billy were in a fight. And so after a count, they called me in. This was at the low. They tell on each other left and right at the low.

So I went in there and I walked in. I'm like, yeah, what's up? And they're like, and I'm like, what's up? And they're like, no, no, Cox. No, no. Look, what happened? And Billy walks in, too. And I'm like, I'm assuming you look what happened i'm like and billy's walks into him and i'm like i'm like i'm assuming you know what happened you know it's and i'm like and he goes he's like yeah you two were

in a fight i said no no no no i said a fight assumes that we both took part i said i was physically assaulted and i go by douche by this fucking motherfucker right here and he goes fucking a cock what the fuck and i go fuck you they take us by this fucking motherfucker right here. And he goes, fucking A, cock. What the fuck? And I go, fuck you. They take us to the fucking shoe. I was out in like a day. Not him. No, no.

He actually, he only had a few months left on a sentence. So he, you know, he left. Anyway, so yeah, that was it. That was the only time anything really fucked up happened. So what happened is they put me back on after the thing when i'm in the shoe they put me back on the yard okay fine i'm back on the yard sorry the compound whatever you want to call it the prison i go back to prison nobody bothers me one guy says i can't walk the yard i said well i'm going to go out there tonight and walk the

yard we'll see what happens and i went out there and walk the yard with like three other guys three my cousin like two other guys we walked around guys got together little group of white guys get together and they just didn't do anything yeah so nobody ever bothered me right like it you know we're not friends so uh so basically a few months later or no like a couple two three weeks later the fbi shows up and they show up and I get called into medical. What agent? Do you remember? Oh, yeah, I remember. One of them was Agent Leslie. I forget her last name.

No, no, Leslie Nelson. Super nice. You know her, Jim? She's in Tampa. Really nice. She's not there anymore. I think she works like a private investigator or something now, but she was there for like 20 years.

She retired. Really nice person. Her and another guy showed up. And so they show up and they sit down and they have a conversation. They're like, hey, we're here to talk about what happened with this. The politician. Yeah, the politician. And the one guy is like, what happened?

How did it go about? And I was like, well, you guys already told you this when we talked before. And so did all my co-defendants that already told them. because my co-defendants had all given him 500 bucks apiece. So they're like, OK. So we talk and I explain what happens. And the guy says, OK, well, you know, his name was Michael. The politician's name was Kevin White. And I go, right.

And he said, you were running a scam in the name Michael White. I go, right. And he said, so the statute of limitations is up on the bribery charge. And I went, okay. He said, but you used money from the bank fraud charges to give to him in order to get him elected. And I went, right, right. And he goes, right, right. And he goes, he is right. He said, so for instance, he said, we know you took $7,000 out this day and he

deposited 6,000 the next day. And your co-defendant, which my co-defendant had told him specifically, they took the money out, gave it to me and knew I was giving it to him. So they're like, so I'm like, right. And he goes, so nobody would believe – he said like if he knew about the bank fraud and his name is Kevin White, Kevin Michael White, by the way. Kevin Michael White and your guy's name is Michael White. He's like, I mean, nobody would believe that he wasn't involved. He said he must have been involved, right? And I was like no i like where your head's going no i didn't because i'm still green as fuck so i went i i looked at him

i said no i know but it's like it was just a coincidence like i i said it's you know and he's looking at me like help me out cocks more like help me out and he looked at me he's like yeah but you understand that no jury would believe that i said i know but it's just like coincidence unless no i didn't because i wasn't you understand i just i just sat there because still didn't my public defender continually told me do not fucking lie to the fbi do not lie to the secret service do not lie to these people because they don't want to give you anything and they will do anything to justify not giving you something so if you lie to them and they catch you in a lie they won't give you anything do not lie to them that was good advice i felt like oh listen if i knew then what i knew now i

would have been it was his idea i'm surprised it took you this long i wanted to go with kevin but he insisted to go with his middle name like i i would have buried that fucking guy are you sure yeah but i didn't know any better it's just stupid i didn't know how they work so so anyway this was such a good idea bringing you on oh my god so he leaves so i mean so they leave and um it's funny because when i went back and told my cousin, I said, yeah, I kept saying this and this and this. I said, I felt like he was like, you're a fucking retard. You're a fucking idiot. Are you stupid? And I was like, well, I don't understand.

So anyway, what ends up happening is this, is that Leslie Nelson comes back a couple weeks later. She's – now they're investigating my old fraud. So she starts bringing in boxes and she starts coming like every month or so. And she comes like five, six times over the next six or eight months. And then I get moved to the low. And then she comes back to the low. And I even told her, look, I don't think they're ever going to do anything. It's been so long.

She's, oh, they're going to do something. I said, no, no, I don't think so. But I to do anything. It's been so long. She's, oh, they're going to do something. I said, no, no, I don't think so. But I said, I hear you. Let's work on it. I hope so. I said, but if they don't, you have to promise me you will write me a letter saying that you have recommended that I get a reduction. And she says, I will write you that letter. And it was just a verbal agreement with her.

Just a verbal agreement. And so at some point she comes back to me one day and she says, Matt, she showed up with nothing. I knew I was screwed. And I was like, what's up? And I said, what's going on? You don't have any files. And she was like, I talked to Robert Mazikowski and he said that the entire – like the financial – we're still prosecuting people for $200 million, $300 million loans and mortgages and fraud and everything. Like your case is super old.

And at this point, it's it's basically a historic case for us. And there's no reason why wouldn't we prosecute bad cases from a year ago or as opposed to ones that are four and five years old. Right. And I was like, I understand. She said, so we're not going to do anything. I'm so sorry about it. I said, you promised me that you would write me.

And she pulled out the letter right then. She has already wrote the letter. That's cool. And I looked at it and I said, can you do me a favor? Can you change? And I made a couple of changes. And you know, I said, can you change this? This and this? She goes, tell me whatever you want me to change, mail it to me. I'll mail you back. She said, you can keep this one. That's stand up. She was super like, did you do it? Did you send it back to you? Absolutely. She made the changes, which were basically almost exactly what the Rule 35 said, that Mr. Cox has helped further the investigation. Like I knew what to say by now. Absolutely.

Yeah. Obviously. Anyway, but I'm at the low now. So I'm at the low, and I start writing my own story. Quick question on the low, because you already mentioned some differences between low and medium. But what's the biggest day-to-day stuff at the low that makes it so much better than the medium? It doesn't. It was horrible.

I didn't want to go to the low at all. I was on a routine. I had a good routine going on. There's no benefits? I mean there's better people. So it's – boy, this is going to sound racial. But it's really not. If you had been in – anybody in prison would be like, yep, I get it.

There's maybe 30 guys, 30 white guys at the medium, right? Like there's a few hundred white guys. So if you want to – if you're 30 guys and there's 1,800 guys and 1,200 to 1,400 of them are black. And the rest are Hispanic. Like you feel really uncomfortable. Like it's not a good situation. Because in prison, the way you've explained it to me is each of the races like stick together. Yes, exactly. Listen, not that – once again, nobody gave me a hard time.

Like all the black guys, super cool to me. Mexicans, super – the only people that gave me a hard time. Like all the black guys, super cool to me. Mexican, super. The only people that gave me a hard time at all, really, the only time was the white guys. That's it. So it wasn't that much of a benefit. Gotcha. Right. But then I go to the low.

So I go to the low and I get there and you don't have your own room. I mean, you have your own room, but it's like you don't have a cell where you can close the door so it's loud all the time and so you're on there's a three there's cubes there's no toilet you have to you're it's like you're using a public toilets and public you know it's it sucks and and it's also the medium was very clean because it's just me and my cell that have to keep the toilet clean. We have to keep everything clean. We're cleaning at least once a day. You go there and these guys are pigs because nobody knows if you piss on the toilet. Nobody knows.

You walk in, you piss on the toilet, you piss on the ground, whatever. You walk away. They don't clean it up. Well, they don't want to clean it up because they don't want to, one, clean theirs. But two, well, there's other splatter and there's other stuff from other guys. They don't want to deal with that. I'm not going to clean his, but you just pissed on the toilet or you just pissed on the urinal or on the wall or whatever. You're just a, listen, these guys are doing drugs. There's way more drugs there. So they're, they're lunatics. They're falling

around trying to go to the bathroom or puke in or doing whatever it's it's disgusting so i get there i i get there i go i meet my counselor he says you owe six million dollars in restitution and i go right and he says yeah well you're not on frp refusal why aren't you i said bro i said man listen i said i've been through this with miss bates mr so. So-and-so, Mr. So-and-so. I said, I don't have to pay. I said, you can look at my, you know, thing. And I told him the same thing. He's OK, I'll check it out.

He said, your file hasn't gotten here yet. He just had the computer or whatever. And he's like, yeah, I'll check it out. I'll check it out. I was like, OK. And then maybe a week later, my case manager calls me in. And while I'm talking to her, she goes, why aren't you on FRP refusal? You have never made a payment. And I went, I don't know. And just then my case manager walks in.

And I said, his name is Mr. Smith. I asked Mr. Smith, he checked it out. He's checked what out? I said, the fact that I don't have to pay restitution. He's like, yeah, yeah. I just got his file. Yeah, he don't have to pay restitution. He never underestimate the laziness of a government. Oh yeah. That is the truth. I'll, I'll wrap that up so that I don't have to keep going through this the whole time. Right.

That went on until a couple months before I got out of prison. Amazing. I've made one FRP payment the entire time in 13 years. Wow. Because, and by the way, counselors multiple unit managers multiple case managers across the board never called i'm not surprised at that me no um so what what ends up happening is i start writing my own story well but quick question did you like how you get sentenced to 26 years. You're going to try to knock time off it.

Obviously, we know you ended up doing that. But, like, you'd been in jail for a year leading up to your sentencing. Then you get to Coleman pretty quickly. Did you have a day, you know, three months, six months, whatever it was in, where you're like, holy shit. Like, this is going to take a while. Like, where it just kind of hits you. Like, it hit you in court hit you in court we know that but like did it hit you when you were in there like holy fuck i can't get out of here so probably a few months before i get out or get moved from the medium to the from the meat well i'm sorry when when the fbi agent so i just been moved to

the low that's right And that's right. So when she came and told me that, they're not going to prosecute. But she gave me that letter. I ended up calling my lawyer, talking to her and saying, what's going on? At this point – so she basically – it says, Matt, I'm sorry. I've talked to Gail McKenzie. She's not going to reduce your sentence. They didn't prosecute.

The Secret Service didn't prosecute. And there were multiple people that the Secret Service could have prosecuted. They didn't prosecute. And the FBI isn't going to prosecute. There's nothing you can do. And I was just like, I mean, she's in tears. She's crying. I'm like, you know, I'm done.

What am I going to do? And you know what's so funny is that a few months after that, I got a letter from a TV show called American Greed. So American Greed said, we want to interview you. Oh, my gosh. So I call my lawyer and she says, hey, she had already gotten a call or she called the U.S. attorney, Gail McKenzie. And Gail McKenzie said, hey, I got a letter from American Greed. They want to interview me. They want to interview you and they want to interview Matt Cox. I want him to do it. We will consider it substantial assistance. She says, you said that last time she said millie that's my lawyer's name i know what i said before it just wasn't enough but the two of these together will

be enough and i get to be on tv again of course she does cnnbc yeah it was on cnnbc yeah cnnbc i watched i watched i didn't like to actually watch it but there was one time in college obviously long before i knew you right where that was on in the background i remember that episode yes because we had solomon duke too i definitely like did it i was not active it was like on the t because we'd have the tv on in the room you know it's amazing though i get i love that agent for standing up for being a stand-up person but it just that's but that whole process is pure laziness. Not to follow through and to just get you closed out. Whatever it looked like needed to be closed at that time.

It needed to be closed. It should have never dragged on beyond where she – obviously, she must have had a knockdown drag out at the U.S. Attorney's Office because they were like, we're not – oh, we now have $300 million cases, so we're just going to let a case float. That's bullshit. That's a lazy assistant United States attorney. That's what it is.

And it's not like you don't have the paperwork. It's not like you didn't have – It's easy. Everybody had cooperated. It's easy. It's an easy close. Yeah. So what ends up happening is –

I hate that shit. Really do. yeah so what ends up happening is um i hate that the really she says you know that she says do the do the do american green so my my judge actually wrote a letter to the warden asking him to let the cameras in because you're in federal yeah yeah and the the warden said no absolutely not he can do a telephone interview. So I do a telephone – they still played it. Like they still – it wouldn't have mattered if I had – it wouldn't have mattered if I had been on the film. Right.

So I do the interview on the two days, go to the warden's office, do a whole thing. They use all of maybe three minutes of it. They interview Gail McKenzie. They interview the Secret Service agent. They make me – I always will say this i'm not even gonna say this anymore i'm gonna say they make me look bad they're about 99 accurate but you know that one percent upsets me um i didn't like some of their adjectives but they were fairly accurate they were fairly accurate there was one or two things that were said that it was like, okay, that's not exactly what happened. What was that? It's stupid stuff.

Like they, you know, what happened was the, I had convinced a doctor and his wife to own or finance a house. Okay. So I give them $25,000 down to own or finance a house for like 250. They had a sick child, child right that needed to have like a surgery or something well what the they were the browns it was dr brown well i think her name was bridget bridget brown says on the tv show that mr cox knew that we had a sick child, a terminally ill sick child, which did not die. You know what I'm saying? Like, I guess maybe he hadn't had the surgery or something, but he didn't die.

He had to have a few surgeries and said that Mr. Cox knew we had a sick child and he targeted us and put us in financial strain. Right. That wasn't true. They technically didn't. And he targeted us and put us in financial strain, right? That wasn't true. They technically didn't – now, they'll say they lost $12,000, but they don't count the fact that I gave them $25,000. I gave them $25,000. They then got the house back, resold it, got another $25,000. So if you do the numbers, they didn't lose it. They didn't lose any money. But that's not the point. The point the point is is that story they need to tie it together i get it and

i get it like it's me like i've said it's me arguing they're saying i killed 15 15 people and i'm saying i only killed 13 right you're still a scumbag right so it's not a good argument for me but the point is is that what she's saying is that I knew she had a sick child. I never went even went upstairs to the house. I walked in the house, walked downstairs, looked upstair. I said, let's put a let's put a contract in it on in on it. We put a contract on like three houses that day. I'm just trying to get somebody to finance their house. I don't know anything about you.

I met them the day of the closing, signed some paperwork. I don't even know if they have kids. Right. Like, I mean, I guess I assume they had some kids, but I don't know if they're sick kids. I don't know anything about it, but they, you know, they always want to make it look worse than it is. It sells, too. It sells the story. You know, and I get it. I understand, but it's like, what I did was bad enough. I don't need you to make it worse.

Right. You know, I trust, I promise you, I will get enough time. Like, you don't have to make, well, I'm afraid he's going to get a slap on the wrist, so I'm going to lie. Well, you're already in prison at this point, too. No, no, no. This is, yes, but that was a common theme. Really, I think it was pushed by the U.S. attorney. Of course it was.

So, and keep in mind, this is a woman that said, I had a machine gun, never had it. She knew I didn't have a machine gun. She knew I didn't have a gun. She told the judge I had a machine gun, I had a gun, All kinds of things. Which is just lies. We'd been burglarized. We had that, remember the home invasion? Did you tell that story on the podcast? Yeah, we had a home invasion. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So I had a home invasion. And when I filled out the homeowner's insurance report, I was trying to maximize

the amount of money I could get on my homeowners, right? So they were like, did you have any guns? Like they'll give you up to like $2,500 in guns. So I put, yeah. I put like, we put like a-

Machine gun? Yeah, we put like AR-15 or something. We put like this. And then she gets in- Artillery pieces. Right, she gets in there and says, and she asked me like, where did you buy the gun? I said, I don't have a gun. And I said, you can ask. I said, no, no, we just did says, and she asked me like, when did you, where'd you buy the gun?

I said, I don't have a gun. And I said, you can ask. I said, no, no, we just did that. Cause we were trying to, like, I said, I had two computers. I said, I had like all these things I didn't have. And I was like, no, we just trying to get the most we could get from the insurance money. And she's like, oh, okay. I said, you can ask Amanda. We never had a gun. I never had any, there's no AR 15. There's no, or whatever the gun was that we said we had that we never had any. There's no AR-15. There's no – or whatever the gun was that we said we had. We never had one. She gets in front of the judge and says, Mr. Cox had a machine gun. He had a – and I'm like hitting my lawyer.

I'm like, what the – and she's like, don't say anything. Don't say anything. You don't want to say anything. So – That was a lie. It just – That's another kind of fraud. By the way, can I get my Babe Ruth ball back?

Just blatantly lying. It's terrible. Anyway, the point is that they do the American Greed. The American Greed comes out. When it comes out, I'm calling – now I'm calling my lawyer. I'm calling Milley. Hey, what's going on? Are they going to reduce my sentence?

Am I getting credit for this? Right. They said they'd give me substantial assistance. And I even had a letter. I had an email from the U.S. attorney to Millie that said, Mr. Cox, we will consider this substantial assistance and we will reduce the sentence. There it is. Yeah. Okay. So she goes to – Millie goes to the U.S. attorney, catches up with her in an elevator and says, here's what happened. What's going on? It came out.

You said you'd reduce the Senate. She said, I said I would consider it, and I did, and it's not enough. Oh, my God. Again. So about the same time that's happening, I get contacted by a guy named Jim Montram. He owns the National Loan Origination School, mortgage school. So the Dodd-Frank Act said that all mortgage brokers in the United States have to take nine hours of continuing education courses. Three hours of that is on ethics and fraud.

He came to me and he said, look, you're one of the only people out there that committed bank fraud on a large scale, and you've committed fraud on every – there's like eight types of bank fraud, let's say six, I think. You've hit every single one of these you've done personally, and you are a licensed mortgage broker. I'd like to have you help me write this course. I said, okay, can you call my lawyer? Great. Calls my lawyer. He flies up to Atlanta.

I think he drove. Drove up to Atlanta, met with my lawyer and the U.S. attorney, and she said, absolutely, if Mr. Cox does this, we'll reduce his sentence. So I write a 9,500-word course. It starts getting used. I've got my ex-wife. I'm calling my ex-wife. She's like, I get calls like every week or so from people saying, I just took the mortgage class.

And it's your ex-husband. There's a whole portion of it that you wrote. People are saying left and right. So I'm like, oh, my God, this is great. Several people write letters. Jim Montrum writes a letter. Millie schedules an appointment with the U.S. attorney, goes in, puts the letter down, says, boom, they're using it. It's great.

It's wonderful. Here's a two-page letter from Jim Montrum. Here's several of his class, of his students that have said what a great thing it is here. And she says, Millie, it's just not enough. It's just bad ethics. Right. So at this point, I don't – I'm writing my book. I'm writing – I'm in the middle of writing a memoir.

Had you written before like in your life at all? I had written earlier when I was – I had like written like a novel. I wrote like a novel. That's right. And it was like kind of – right. Yeah, yeah. But I threw it in the drawer. I never tried to get it published.

It was just something to do, right? Like fraud is not a full-time job, right? I need something to do. So I wrote, you know, I like writing. It was kind of like a Jim Grisham kind of map. Because by the way, because now you are a published author. I mean, you're going to explain how all this happened. But how many books have you published now since you got out?

Not since I got out. I think I published like five when I was in and maybe two or three since I got out? Not since I got out. I think I published like five when I was in and maybe two or three since I got out. Three since I got out. Okay. So what is that? Available on Amazon. Something like eight, six or eight books. I'll put the link down in the description.

Matthew Cox on Amazon. We're going to talk about some of the guys you wrote because you wrote about – I mean you wrote the book that became the basis of War Dogs, which we're definitely going to talk about. So anyway, not exactly what happened, but yes. I wrote Ephraim Deverelli's memoir, which is who Jonah Hill plays in the movie War Dogs. Sued Warner Brothers, sued Ephraim Deverelli. That in and of itself, by the way, is a book. Didn't you settle that in a strip club or something? We did strip.

We settled the lawsuit in the Pink Pony in Miami. Love that. I'm sure you know the Pink Pony. Unless he's been there a few times. He's like a big God guy. As a matter of fact, I wrote a book about the lawsuit called Dude, Where's My Hand Grenade? And it's on Amazon. Link in description.

Hilarious. I'm trying to get Danny right now to do a sizzle reel. We'll talk to him. Yeah. He's got to do it. Oh, he's got to do it. Listen, we got almost everybody lined up. Dude, where's my hand grenade?

Yeah, I miss Danny making, and I didn't know him when he was doing this, but if you watch the shit he made, he's so talented at that, bro. He's super talented. Oh, my God. I'd love to see him get back. But he's just so – he works so hard on all this other shit. Because those are the real people. That's the real Ephraim Deverelli. That's the real Pacquiao. Yeah.

Yeah. Crazy. As opposed to the movie. Crazy. So you're right. You were saying you started writing your memoir. Right. So I started writing my memoir and now at this point at this point i've been locked up six years and i realize

they're not going to reduce my sentence no matter what i do they're not going to reduce your is your attorney is it still the same attorney yeah still millie and is she trying to so here's the problem pursue this no because here's why She's in the 11th Circuit. She's been turned – in the 11th Circuit, like you said, it's horrible. It's horrific. If I had been somewhere in California, they're pretty liberal. They'll go, oh, that's not right. We need to reduce this sentence.

You're in Florida. I'm in Florida, and it's very, very very i don't want to say backwoods a good old boy kind of like nope yeah very very tough on crime um to the point of not following the law um so what happens is um i i i eventually i'm so frustrated i don't know what to do um and at this point it's like okay they're not going to reduce your sentence, and nobody is getting arrested because, by the way, that – remember the politician? Yeah. They indicted him. He went to prison?

He did. They went through with it. But not on mine. They indicted him because he was – that guy that I told you was telling me, hey, wink, wink, he was actually in the middle of a case against him. And he indicts him on bribery. And Kevin White goes to trial like an idiot and loses and gets three years. Yeah. And – but they never called me.

Like you could have called me to say this is what happened in my case. The statute of limitations is up, but here's what happened. Never called me. That's interesting. I'm sure there's a reason, a technical reason that I don't understand, but I felt like they could have done something. Yeah, maybe because it's outside the statute, but it is continuing, you know, kind of a continuing scheme on his part. He's already predicated on that maybe maybe if there's a chance that they should have wanted to but they didn't i agree with you they should have but they didn't maybe if and i'm i'd know nothing about the case

so i can't really say yeah we'll put him in the corner screen but maybe if they thought they had such an airtight case on on the latest charges they're working on with him they wouldn't want to bring in a convicted fraudster as a witness for fear of being like ripped you know what i mean possible is that possible even even continuing behavior you know i was gonna say listen on the indictment phase at least at least at some portion yeah i mean once he's indicted and goes to try and chooses to go to trial what an idiot by the way it's pretty it's whatever it's pretty hard to dispute mr red's check mr green's check mr silver's check mr blue's check mr black's check my mom my dad my all of my co-defendants who have all said i never met the guy matt was bribing him every single was like no no matt was bribing the guy to get his his all his properties

same type of situation here same yes he was promising he was promising someone that he could get them the hills the hillsborough county rights for um a towing he has nothing to do with towing but he had a tow truck company that he was saying like i can get you the tow truck contract for Hillsborough County. Wow. And they gave him a car. They gave him thousands of dollars. Free tows.

Free tows. Thousands of dollars. If you ever get stuck, we'll tow you out. Bought him a bunch of dinners. Gave his father a bunch of stuff. You know, just across the board, just stupidity. Oh, and then he got sued a second time for sexual harassment. Like he hired this young Puerto Rican girl.

And then. She went from towing to fingering. And then he starts. He starts. Yeah. He like brings her on. He's a man of all. He brings her on like a. That was good. That was good yeah, he like brings her on. He's a man of all. He brings her on like a –

That was good. That was good. What does he bring her on? He brings her on like a junket or something. He shows up at a room at 2 o'clock in the morning and says – Let's call him a junket. At 2 o'clock in the morning and he said he's an only child. No, he's an only child.

No, no. He had siblings or something. He doesn't like to sleep alone. Could he just lay down with her and sleep with her? It's beautiful. You're a 40-year-old man. This is like a 22-year-old girl that's not qualified to be a secretary, by the way. Kids, it's not hard to make it in America, apparently.

I mean, Christ, it doesn't take too many brain cells. Run for office. Listen, then he became a – Goddamn, that's benefits. After he got out of jail, he got a job as a car salesman and worked with my ex-wife's husband. Oh, he became a car salesman.

He was a car salesman before. Before he was a car salesman, too. At least he's sticking to his roots. Car salesman, city council, county commissioner. He's a commissioner. Bribing his way through that and eventually goes to jail, gets out, becomes a car salesman again. Wow.

Anyway, so at this point, I know they're not going to reduce my sentence. So I go and I talk to a friend of mine and say, hey, how can I, what can I do? Like I talked to, by the way, you know who T I I T I is. Yeah. The rapper. Yeah. So I actually talked to his lawyer. Interesting. So I talked to his lawyer and told him the situation and he said, there's nothing you can do. I talked to a lawyer who was an ex-prosecutor in Tampa, and he said, there's nothing you can do. You're just done. In this district, you're done. They were like, first of all, I can take your money. I'll go through the motion. He's like, and I'm not above taking your money and trying if I thought maybe there was a chance. Mr. Cox, there's no chance.

That's it. Done. You're done. Okay, fine. So there was a guy on the compound named Frank Amadeo. Oh, here we go, baby. You know about Frank, Jim? Frank Amadeo.

Buckle up. Frank Amadeo was a disbarate attorney. Frank Amadeo was in prison for 22 years because when Frank Amadeo was 11, 12, 13 years old, he started hearing the voice of God telling him that he is preordained to be emperor of the world. He is a rapid cycling bipolar with features of schizophrenia.

He's like 5'4", 5'5"? Yeah, he's like 5'4", 5'5". Yeah, little man syndrome. No, more like mental illness. Yeah. Yeah, that's his website. You got to just go to – just punch in Frank Amadeo and put – there's a ton of stuff that should come up. No, don't put attorney.

Just put Frank Amadeo. Put world domination. Frank Amato. It's Amadeo, not Amato. Yeah. D-E-O. All right? Yeah, yeah.

We'll come back to it. So anyway. You actually had it spelled right yeah there it is right there see the see the second one down now with him no no no no to the right to the right you don't see the helicopter yeah right that so however you spell amadeo there it's it's a m e or oh there's a d o yeah yeah um ode-D-E-O. Yeah, yeah. Amodeo, yeah. So type that in, you'll see. So this guy's sitting in there on a 22-year stint. Right.

So what happened was – so he gets disbarred. He becomes – he goes to college, goes to law school, starts running a business, gets disbarred. He ends up becoming a venture capitalist, taking over companies. And then he starts – basically, he ends up buying and opening several of the companies are employee leasing companies, right? You know what that is? I don't think so. So let's say you buy a factory and you got 40, you got 10,000 employees. Well, he, he'll do all of your payroll. So he basically leases your own employees back to you, but he takes them. And that way he ends up with a company that ends up with 20 or 30,000 employees. He gets really good HMOs, you know, whatever medical he gets, he gets all these discounts, right? Well, what he does is he starts

doing that for all of his own companies that he's buying, and he starts withholding the payroll taxes for the federal government to the tune of over $180 million. Oh, that'll do it. He uses that money to bankroll a coup in the Congo. Why the Congo? The Congo is the largest, it has the largest natural mineral resources in the world.

Diamonds, gold, what is that metal that goes into phones? All that stuff. But the problem is you can't get to it because they've been at war for 50 years. So they try to put it in mind. He backs his own candidate. His candidate went from number 30 to number 3

before the military came in and grabbed all of Frank's guys. They grabbed like 30 guys and 32 guys, and they hold them for whatever. Oh, for nine days he negotiates. He also, by the way, was trying to buy a fleet of uh former of f-15s and f-16s you know they declaw they declaw them you know they take the guts out of them you can buy them fly them to cyprus and russians will put them put all the shit back in listen we got this we got this yeah he's he's insane he's he's amazing though he's also amazing he's obviously a brilliant

he is i that's how i met bustamante because i wrote a book about frank but let's go let's go back so i meet frank here's the problem with frank it's great the problem with frank is that frank's he is a lawyer so when he gets locked up he starts representing clients inside the prison so he's a disbarred lawyer what my buddy pete does legal work he's never been to law school you don't have to be like it as an in other and inmates are allowed to help other inmates with lawyers so the problem is is that he's a real lawyer he's disbarred he's still a lawyer he's just disbarred you see it was a lottery so he the first thing he does is listen to what he does this fucking guy man this this is so by the way that's your book on him we'll have that link in description it's insanity the bizarre story of

a bipolar megalomaniac megalomaniac's insane plan for total world domination by matthew beacox listen it's it's it's it's so that needs a movie it does and you know why here's what's so funny about that is that this is a guy he's not pretending by the way he's not it's not like it's something that he doesn't tell anybody he'll tells everybody he's going to take over the world and actively people laugh and they joke he'll laugh and joke about it and when i interviewed some of his co-defendants i'm like well he laughs and jokes about it and i was like so he it's not serious and they would go no no he's he's he's 100 serious you know that fucking kevin the dude you ran into our mutual friend the guy you ran into in i think the caribbean you know i don't want to name drop right now you know who i'm talking about

the dude from the from the show i'm to need more than the dude from the show. You were talking to Danny about it? Huh? You were talking to Danny about it? Kevin? Don't worry about it. I think Kevin would look at this to make this, to make something out of that. Like this guy's story?

Are you fucking kidding me? I've pitched it to two or three people. The problem is it's a big – this – look, the point is is amadeo what amadeo does is he immediately starts teaching what's called the um it's the legal research class so he starts training inmates on how to fight cases how to do legal research on the computers and write motions and how the legal system works. Big mistake for the court system. Oh, yeah. He also, this is an odd thing that he did.

He would sign his name. So he would say that he wrote the motion. He's helping you. And so literally there are federal judges that would say, that would talk about Mr. Amadeo in their cases. I know that Mr. Amadeo wrote this thing, and Mr. Amadeo is saying this. And it's like, what are you talking about? He's the inmate.

Like that's the defendant. He's talking about Amadeo like he's your lawyer. Yeah. So what is – What was he doing to get back – was he getting paid for it like in prison? No, never offered. Just world domination. There it is.

I want to be maimed by every federal judge. Yeah, he did want to be hated by everybody. There you go. Not only did he not charge me, he paid for my stamps. He paid for the typing. I paid for nothing. So I go to Amadeo. I explain that.

So here's the problem. I wasn't going to go to him you understand that i've been there for years now i've been at the low for years i wasn't going to go to him because he's insane and everybody's like this dude's nuts bro this guy's really crazy he has these manic moments where he would go he's five foot four and he's screaming at six foot tall gang members and it's like you're crazy to be dead. Like, I'm surprised he lasted as long as he did, because the truth is, but think about it. He's doing your legal work. Yeah. I could pretty much talk to you like a dog if I'm doing I'm your only hope. And the

worst thing is for these guys, Frank's walking people out of federal prison. Guys have 30 years. You've done 15. He takes your case on. It's done. Nobody can done 15. He takes your case on. It's done. Nobody can help you. He takes your case on. Six months later, boom, you get walked out of federal prison. Instant credibility. Listen, and we're talking about every – and he's also doing it on a massive scale.

So every – I'm going to say every – I'm going to say once a month. It may have been every two weeks. But what would happen is suddenly guys would come up to me. I'm like, bro, bro, you know P like yeah there's 10 pookies yeah which you know pookie from fucking atlanta yeah yeah yeah with the curly hair yeah yeah yeah with the shave that we have with the goatee yeah yeah yeah look and i'd go what about him he go frank just got 10 years knocked off his sentence he's leaving for a halfway house in six months i get the fuck out of here are you serious you gotta talk to me go yeah next thing you know boom you know so and so yeah immediate release a month later hey hey cocks cocks uh you

know so and so you know jimmy yeah yeah yeah what about him you know 25 years right 13 yeah did 10 just got 10 he's leaving in two years they're putting him in for uh for halfway house in a year it's like, what? How? What happened? Frank, bro. So at this point, when my lawyers and all these lawyers on the street say, you're done, I go to my buddy, Turk, and I say, man, you work with Frank, right? And he's like, I've been telling you.

You got to talk to Frank. I'm like, the guy thinks he's going to take over the world, bro. He's like, look, stop it. It doesn't affect his legal work. His legal work is outstanding. It is. It's the F-16s with no guts. That's the problem.

They would have had guts eventually. If Frank had had his way. We will give them guts. Listen, if Frank had had his way, he'd have all of Africa by now. He'd be working his way through Europe. Once he made it to Sudan, he'd be good. So he comes. So Frank comes. Do you see all these podcasts on him?

I love that picture. All the podcasts. Danny did one? Yeah, yeah. Danny. Well, that's Matt with Danny. That was a Matt podcast. It's a good one.

Liz, did you see that one guy up here? The mad whatever his name is. He's got like a million views on his with Frank. I mean, it's such a sellable story. I always told Danny because like this thumbnail he made was fucking awesome. I always wondered why the episode just did well, but not incredibly well. Because it's a great episode. Highly recommend.

But yeah, anyway. So you start talking. You go to Frank. We go to Frank. And I'm just going to tell you what happens with Frank. Frank says, so I explained to Frank what's happened. They asked me to do this. They said it's not enough. They asked me to do this. They said Frank what's happened. They asked me to do this. They said, it's not enough. They asked me to do this. They said, it's not enough. They asked me

to do this. They said, it's not enough. And Frank sat there and he said, I'm not going to let this happen. I'm not going to let this happen. He said, this makes me so upset. He said, he said, when I, when my troops march on Washington, I'm going to burn the Constitution and the president will kneel at my feet. And I glance over at Turk and Turk's looking at me like this, like, like, give it a second. And he goes and Frank goes. I'm going to need your transcripts. I'm going to need. And Turk sits there and just starts writing down transcripts, indictment, motion, such and such, pre-sentence report, pre-sentence report.

Okay. I'm going to need a form 2255, form 2255. And I'm like, okay, so you're going to file – there's something called a – there's a motion called a – it's a specific performance motion you can file. And I said, so you're going to file a specific performance. He goes, no, no, we're going to file 2255. Now, keep in mind with a in a criminal case after sentencing, you have one year, one year to file a 2255, which is you're saying your lawyer was ineffective. Yes. We just covered this. I just did a case about my friend tyree wallace

who's in prison for life right now for a crime he didn't commit and he turns to the sheriff and says hey i got a question for you and the sheriff i think says what's that and he says what's the penalty for perjury one of my homies is on trial he didn't do it they made me say i didn't want to say that and do we know have we seen this do we know who the sheriff is yeah what's his name john hamilton the sheriff's lane brian said he that this wasn't true and so they let brian get back on the stand to say what he said to the sheriff pretty damn credible now i have someone here who i think could help clear this up a little bit and i'd like to bring him in if you don't mind so we're gonna have to move that table sure in a sec but alessi can you bring them in if you don't mind so we're gonna have to move that table sure in a sec but alessi can you bring them in and one of the huge problems one of the huge problems that they

had with his case is that his lawyer was completely incompetent the lawyer's now dead and they only had a year back then he was a was a 19-year-old kid who had no idea about anything. And they didn't file that. Yeah, that's the bullshit. Fucking crazy, man. Bill Clinton. You can thank Bill Clinton for that. So what ends up happening is I say, Frank, I was sentenced six years ago.

I said, oh, no, no, no. He said equitable tolling, though. He said every time they asked you to do something, he said. Tolling and crimson should have been put in place. Yeah, oh, no, no, no. He said equitable tolling, though. He said every time they asked you to do something, he said – Tolling agreement should have been put in place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He said it extends. And I'm sitting there going – and by the way, that – It's not a bad argument.

In the 11th, though, in the 11th Circuit again, never works. Right. Everywhere else it would work. And also they have certain things that they'll say will work with so they said every time they asked you to do something you did it and they fell through it reset your one year and he went when was the last time they asked you to do something and i was like like six months ago and he was like okay so i need you to write a letter to them asking them you know so we go through a whole process he starts writing the motion uh it was agony by the, because he's always putting

you off and spinning you and spinning and spinning. It was agony to deal with him. But six months later, he finally files just before, right? Just before the one year would have been over. That's assuming that you really can get the time bar, right? You can really get equitable tolling, which in the 11th, it's just a work but it doesn't matter because he filed it he filed it they fought we went back forth back forth back forth went on for six months and it only took that line if you're going back and forth it might have been eight months still that's fast for the federal government fine at some point the the US attorney sends – files a Rule 35 and says – doesn't file Rule 35. Says they want to stay.

They want to stay on the motion. They want to stay on the proceedings because they're going to – they want to file Rule 35, bring me back to court, and let me argue for how much I deserve. Because she said the problem is, and she said this in the court, the problem is we really don't have a precedence. We typically never give rule 35s. We never give sentence reductions unless there's been someone has been arrested and indicted or indicted, arrested and prosecuted. That is a hell of a read on that rule, man. Holy shit. I'm with you.

I know you are. So they give me a lawyer. The lawyer flies down. Her name was Esther Panich. Nice woman. Flew down and she sat there and came and said, okay, look. She's like, I see you've been filing these motions. She said, look, they're written well, but you really don't have much of a case. Like in the end, you're probably not going to get equitable tolling. You're going to be time

bar. You're not going to get anything. They're offering you one year. I'm sorry. They're offering you one level, a one level reduction, which is essentially like 30 months off your sentence. And I went, I said, no, I want four levels. I said, I was told to argue for four levels. And she goes, by who? I go, by this guy, Frank Amadeo. He's been writing my legal work. She says, you didn't do this?

I said, no. I said, Frank did. She says, is Frank a lawyer? And I went, he's a disbarred lawyer. She says, is he in here? I went, yeah. And she said, why is he locked up? And I go, because he wants like, because for world domination, he wants to take over the world because i said because for world domination

he wants to take over the world i said he embezzled nearly 200 million dollars from the federal government he tried to take over a fucking couple of countries i said he's buying jets he's i said he's insane i said but he does great legal work and frank said attorney though excellent i said and frank said to i that not to take less than four levels and And she goes, Frank, Frank, the guy who's mentally incompetent. And I went, yes, that one. Legally incompetent, yes. And she went, and you're going to listen to him. I said, yeah.

I said, because I said, whenever I call you people, you say not to file anything. She goes, well, you can't win this. I go, then why are you here? Why did the federal government stop the proceedings, hire you to fly down here and ask me to take one level? Because what he's doing is working. And I said, and what you and everybody else out there would have done would have said, stay in prison.

I said, as far as I'm concerned, Frank's already got 30 months off my sentence. I said, he said four levels. Not to take less than four levels. Not two, not three. Right. Four. So she goes, okay, I'll go back. And she goes back.

And well, and we argue a little bit. And finally, she says, like, they come back. They say, we'll give you two. We'll give you this. And finally, they said, look, we can give you two or we can bring you. The U.S. attorney, Gail McKenzie, said, you can take two or you can come back and argue. That's it. You take two.

We just file it. You stay in Coleman. You don't get to come back. That means it's guaranteed two levels off, which would have been four years, four four and a half something like that maybe five five years so i go and i talked to frank frank comes back and frank said go go back in front of the judge he said that your judge will give you a fair shake i said okay so i tell her i want to just believed him on that even after your experience i got people flying down. Nobody's given me anything before. Of course I believe them.

If Frank said, jump off the building, you'll be fine, I probably would have said, I don't know, I got a chance. I mean, this guy's getting me. He's only got schizophrenia, but I got a chance. He's getting me somewhere. So listen, I end up going back to court. We get in front of the judge.

We argue it. The FBI agent comes and testifies. Mr. Cox cooperated. He this. It's not his fault that we didn't pursue. The woman. Absolutely. Okay.

All right. I like it. I have no doubt that the U.S. attorney's office was irritated that she'd even given me that letter, which she shouldn't have given me. So I go back. We argue. my lawyer argues, Jim Montram, the guy that I wrote the course with, he comes, he sits down, did a fairly good job. It always cracks me up because at one point, the US attorney, he was like, you know, people do bad things. People make mistakes. There's a lot of fraud in the industry. People change a W-2, a pay stub. They do this.

They do that. And the U.S. attorney said, so you're telling me that it's common for people to make fake people, buy houses, refinance them five times, pull out a million dollars and walk away? And he goes, oh, no, no. He was way out of line. That's not what I was saying. And I thought, true, but not the response I would have liked. Didn't want that there so what's so funny is when the judge gave me my sentence when he reduced my sentence he goes like

this he said okay um oh by the way we asked for like eight levels oh you asked for eight yeah i didn't even know you could go to eight oh you could ask for 50 if you want but anyway we were like we asked for like eight which would have been like immediate release now did this judge give you anything for the front of a book? For what? Did he give you a quote that's good for the front of a book? I already had that quote. This isn't a new-

That's Leslie Nelson! This isn't a new judge this time? No, this is my same- Same judge? Oh, you always stick with the same judge. Oh, shit. Wow. Yeah, there's the,

we'll put the FBI agent in the corner screen. She was very nice. Very nice. Super polite. Very nice. Absolutely, extremely professional person. You got to get her on your pod. I should get her on, but she has a wealth of information.

What is she doing? Can you check her LinkedIn real quick? What's she doing right now? And she was out at the Tampa office, you said? She's a private investigator of some type, I think, right? United Democracy Center. Just recently, though. Then she had her own business.

She had her own business there. A couple of them. Okay, so 23 years in the Bureau. Oh, wow. She came in right around me. Gotcha. Okay. So what happens is they take me there.

We argue the whole thing. And after we make the argument, the judge says, Okay, Mr. Cox is offering – let's say six levels off. He goes, the government is asking for – by the way, when they got there, they told me when they got – they were not going to make an argument for anything. They were going to say we're giving – putting in one level. That's it. But they argued for one level. He only deserves – nobody was indicted um so anyway they say the government is asking for 30 months off your sentence mr cox is asking he said

that's not nearly enough for what this defendant has done he said mr cox was asking for six levels off he goes mr cox that was never gonna happen i was like it was like oh my god it was like he slapped me um and so he uh so what ends up happening is how's my hair oh it's fine hair looks great so he ends up hair jokes just killing me so he ends up so he goes he rambles off all the blah blah blah i'm gonna give three levels off which is seven years. He said, and for somebody who has no indictments associated with this case, Mr. Cox, that's not a bad deal. And he got up and left, and that was it. And I was – so I remember I was upset, right?

Oh, by the way, Millie, my first lawyer, she also got on the stand and tested. And I filed – my 2255 against her was against her, saying she was ineffective. She didn't understand the law. She didn't know what she was doing. Yeah. She still came and said, I want to testify. Got on the stand and said, Mr. Cox has done – That's pretty cool.

Listen, everybody across the board, decent. Everybody on my side. It was great, right? For somebody who certainly doesn't deserve it. So you get from 20 – now you're down to 19. 19 and a half. Yeah, 19. Let's just say 19. 19, four years, four months, but whatever. Let's say 19. So what happens is I remember when I left, when I was leaving, like I'm walking out in the marshals, right? I'm walking out in the thing. And I look across the street because they didn't

have it at the building in downtown Atlanta. The the judges um it was there was there was some uh construction they had it at another area so when i'm walking across the street i see millie getting into her car and she was like super sad that i only got seven years off right and she looks over at me and i remember looking at her and going she was like like, like this. And I go, eh, it's fine. She was like. So I get in the car, right? I get in the van. They drive me back to the U.S. Marshal's holdover.

They move me all the way back. I get back to prison. I go back to prison. I've been there. I get there. I think I got there in the morning or something, whatever. And then, you know, then you go to dinner, we eat. We got there halfway through the day, just before, I think

just before five. Now I think about just before count. So I get out after I go eat, I go and then I go and I find Frank and I go up to Frank and I said, Hey Frank, I said, um, I got back. He said, I know I heard, he said, I heard you got seven years off. And I went right, right. And I said, man, I said, I don't, I don't want to be unappreciative. I said, but man, I said, I was, I was hoping for more. He goes, I was hoping for more too. He sat there, he went, I really thought you'd get more. And he goes, looks like we're going to have to eat this elephant one spoonful at a time. He said, keep your ears open. Something will happen.

He said, we'll get some more time off your sentence. Did you know what he meant by that? No, I don't think he knew. I think he was just saying something comforting. You know, he's just being nice. Let's get the jets. You know, you're trying to, he's trying to be comforting. You know, look, I, what was interesting about that whole thing was that by that point, it had been seven years.

I'd been locked up like, let's say, yeah, about six years. By that point, by the time I actually got my sentence, I'd been locked up about six years. Maybe seven. About seven. Let's say seven years. And I remember thinking I had about seven to, about, maybe seven, seven, no. Seven or eight more years left, let's say. I got the math wrong, but whatever.

I remember I had about the same amount of time left, right? So I've got whatever, 50, 16 more years left, whatever. I done eight and I have like eight more, whatever it ends up coming to. And I had remember, I remember thinking you didn't think you could do eight when you got here. You can do, you did it. You can do another eight. Like it sucks,

but you can do it. You're writing guys books. By that time I had written Ephraim Devereaux's book. Oh, this is already done now. Yeah. It's been years. Think about these are when these court cases,

they said like a year. Yeah. He filed it six months before we got that. They came back. And then it was another six months before I ended up back in court because we had to go back and forth, back and forth. So it's a year. And we'll come back to Ephraim. But keep going with this part.

Right. So I've been – and now I'm right. I wrote a kid. By that point, I had written a kid's book named Doug Dodd. I got him in Rolling Stone magazine. It was a book. It was called – no, it was called The Dukes of Oxy. It's a good name.

Matt's good with like the salacious names. No, I didn't name it The Dukes of Oxy. I wrote a book. I wrote – what I wrote was a synopsis called Oxy Rush. I sent it to a bunch of reporters. I got one that was interested. He then took that article, slightly rewrote it. And called it his.

And sent it to Rolling Stone magazine and had it published in Rolling Stone magazine. Said that my name was going to be on it. And a couple weeks before they published it, told me Rolling Stone magazine didn't want to have that article, my name on the article, because I was a felon and I was in prison and they didn't want to be associated with me. I found out later after talking to Sean Woods, which was the editor at the time, my name was never on that article. Now, my name's in the article. If you actually look down a little bit, this is the Dukes of Oxy. I'm actually – that's the kid. I'm actually in the article. Like they talk about how he sent his prison – he says like he – Doug Dodd and his prison writing partner or something like that.

And ended up sending this guy the thing. But, yeah. So what happens is I end up getting a book deal for that so i i wrote we i ended up writing a book called uh um generation oxy and so we optioned the film rights to the story wait you get a book deal while still in prison so it's going to get published while you're in prison it was published it was in barnes and nobles it was it was like a real like i i got a i got an advance like i I got $3,500. Like that's a lot of money in prison.

Yeah, in prison you're balling. So I got that and that was great. And then we optioned the film rights. So I got a check for like six or seven grand, something like that, which is a lot of money. Yeah. What ends up happening is – so I get back to prison and Frank says something will happen. We'll work on it. Bite off this elephant one spoon at a time.

Yeah, one spoon at a time. So I'm walking around the prison compound and there was an old guy named Ron Wilson. Ron Wilson stole $57 million. There's articles that say he stole like – it's like $100 million. But really the loss was 57 million, right? Because it's a Ponzi scheme. You know, they'll jack up how much he's supposed to have made and got back, but it ends up being 57 million.

So. All right, guys, that is the end of part one of my two-part sit down with Matt Cox and special agent Jim DiIorio. If you haven't already, please smash that subscribe button and hit that notifications bell so you find out when the next episode is coming out in the next couple days. And yeah, you're not going to want to miss this one. We talk all about how Matt and the Emperor

got him out of prison way earlier than expected and the entire backstory behind War Dogs, Ephraim DiVioli, and everything that happened there before and after the movie came out. You are not going to want to miss it. So like this video also before you leave. Really appreciate everyone who watched. And by the way, here's the old studio in all its glory now. Just completely gone. Classic. R.I.P.