Julian Dorey Podcast - [VIDEO] - Inside China’s Mafia (Triad), Ghost Shadow Initiation, & Prison Machete Wars | Kenny Wong • 206

Episode Date: May 16, 2024

(***TIMESTAMPS in description below) ~ Kenny Wong is a former Triad Gang Member & Ghost Shadows Gangster from NYC’s Chinatown. The Triad's were a Chinese transnational organized crime syndicate based in Greater China with outposts in various countries having significant overseas Chinese populations. The triads originated from secret societies formed in the 18th and 19th centuries with the intent of overthrowing the then-ruling Qing dynasty. The Ghost Shadows were a Chinese-American organized crime group active all around the country but centered in NY from the 1960s to the 1990s. - BUY Guest’s Books & Films IN MY AMAZON STORE: ⁠https://amzn.to/3RPu952⁠  EPISODE LINKS: - Julian Dorey PODCAST MERCH: ⁠https://juliandorey.myshopify.com/⁠  - Support our Show on PATREON: ⁠https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey⁠  - Join our DISCORD: ⁠https://discord.gg/Ajqn5sN6⁠  JULIAN YT CHANNELS: - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Clips YT: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@juliandoreyclips⁠  - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Daily YT: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@JulianDoreyDaily⁠  - SUBSCRIBE to Best of JDP: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@bestofJDP⁠  ***TIMESTAMPS*** 00:00 - Kenny background, China Town, Eddy Chang, Moving from Hong Kong 09:50 - Kenny’s Uncle Arrested, Ghost Shadow Gang, Father Murdered 20:07 - Post-Father Murder, Revenge, Singapore Lash, Joining Ghosy Shadow Gang 30:07 - Extortion, Kenny’s Mentality on China vs USA, Moving to Hong Kong 38:15 - How the Triad’s Work, Triad’s Escape to Hong Kong 44:55 - Triad’s Dark Initiation Process, Mindset w/ Crime   57:50 - Involvement in Organized Crime, Hatred For Anyone, China’s School Culture, Returning to NYC 01:07:52 - Joining NYC Ghost Shadow Gang, Drug Runs, Young Boss & Errand Boy  01:20:23 - Green Dragon Gang, Connection to Medellin Cartel, Kenny’s Anger Issues & Drug Usage 01:31:07 - Chinese Gang War, 1989 China Town Murders 01:37:25 - Armed Robbery Gone Bad, 18 Months in Prison 01:46:23 - Japanese vs Chinese Rivalry, Nanjing R@pe, WW2 ‘731’ Testing, Ghost Shadow Initiation  01:56:41 - Ghost Shadow Gang Slow Collapse, Informant & Kenny Accused 02:05:55 - Sister Ping, Someone Snitched, Kenny Stabbings in Prison 02:17:57 - Day Kenny Went Down, Going to Prison 7-8 Years, Lewisburg Prison, Lou Ferrante 02:29:23 - Out of Prison, Worst Day in NYC History, Ending of Ghost Shadows & Flying Dragons 02:38:58 - Leaving New York, Life After Gang Life 02:47:20 - Find Kenny, Book Coming Out CREDITS: - Hosted & Produced by Julian D. Dorey - Intro & Episode Edited by Alessi Allaman ~ Get $150 Off The Eight Sleep Pod Pro Mattress / Mattress Cover (USING CODE: “JULIANDOREY”): https://eight-sleep.ioym.net/trendifier Julian's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey ~ Music via Artlist.io ~ Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 206 - Kenny Wong Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The tribes effectively had, you know, young students in school who were already a member of their gang. And so now you get into that and now you're picking on other young students at their behest. Yes. They go by numbers. They need numbers. Because back there they fight, they don't fight with guns. They don't have much guns. Gun trade is not a big thing in Hong Kong. The British have everything in control. If you go to England right now, even the cops don't carry a gun. Right.

So guns are very limited in that part of the world. So is it knife? Oh, no. It's freaking machetes. Oh. We're talking about the Gerger's freaking machetes. That'll do it. Yeah, yeah.

Cutting freaking trees and chopping hands and heads. Yes. So you learn how to wield a machete pretty good. There's an incident that happened. They were fighting over our territory. I was called in to, because after that, I was going to be a full-blown initiated member. This isn't at school. No. Okay. It was at the... Spengature. But I was going to be a full-blown initiated member. This isn't at school. No.

Okay. It was at the... Spengature. But I was only 15 years old. Right. And he said, I want to see how the truth comes. See how you react. Are you brave enough?

That was the honor for it. One of the guys said, yo, go over there. Knife. That's not knifing. It was a fucking... I put it this way. What's up, guys? If you're on Spotify right now, please follow the show so that you don't miss any future episodes and leave a five-star review.

Thank you. You know, back in the days, it wasn't allowed. It wasn't what? It wasn't allowed to take pictures. It wasn't allowed to take your picture? Yeah. Yeah, you snap a picture of us. Thank you. They only got one picture of me. They only got one picture of you? One picture. The whole time? The whole time, yeah. Out in the street. We always keep a low profile. We try to hide our faces. We're not, we weren't, how do you say,

flashy and flamboyant like the mob was during that time. We try to keep everything quiet. And what year, like late 80s you're talking with this? 87, 88. Yeah, so you're in the Gotti era. They were loud. Yeah, they were loud. Right, right.

Not that there was anything wrong, but that's not our style. Right, 100%. Well, Kenny, thanks so much for coming up here, man. If we knew you were in New York the last two weeks, we would have left you here an extra day. But I'm glad you made it. So this was an episode that was all Alessi's idea. He's the one that found your guy's YouTube channel, which we'll put the link in the description.

And it's actually a part of New York City gang culture that I was completely unaware of. So you were a member of Ghost Shadows for how long? Connected to them all my life almost. But actual member was probably from 87, 86, 87. How old were you?

16. Yeah. Whoa. 16 years old. I was at 15. I was in Hong Kong. My family took me to Hong Kong to get away from that type of lifestyle because I was acting up. But they couldn't contain me.

I tricked one of my aunts to buy me a plane ticket, flew back to New York. So I became an active member at the age of 16. Whoa. So this was Ghost Shadows was based out of Chinatown in New York City. New York Chinatown. And you guys also had some locations in other cities, right? Not really. No?

I mean, we have members that branched out probably. Pull this in a little bit. Yeah, we have members that probably branched out to cities um and try to make it on their own but um nowhere near how lucrative and and exciting as new york city uh charlottetown yeah yeah so they started in the early 70s and i guess it's like kind of a little bit lost to history because everyone thinks of like you know cosanoce italian american mafia and then even like some of the jewish kind of a little bit lost to history because everyone thinks of like you know Cosa Nostra, Italian American Mafia and then even like some of the Jewish mob and a little bit of the Irish mob and then Frank Lucas coming in the 70s with running the African-American mob and all the drugs but this is this is a part of it that's a little undercovered so how did this all begin

like like what was the what was the beginning history of Ghost Shadows and even some other gangs that were in the area? Street gangs, Chinatown, we're unknown because we don't mess around with politics. And when we did have the Tong member, Eddie Chan, you probably heard of him. If not, you know, you could do some research. Yeah, Eddie Chan. Eddie Chan, he was the president of Aung Leong Association, one of the towns. The town that was in

my turf. Our gang turf. So, he started... He was a Hong Kong police sergeant or something like that. From over there. Yes. So, he was taking a lot of heroin money.

So, he built up a little empire. So when the corruption ICAC came after him, he left. And I think he avoided prosecution from the British government. Took his money, came to New York, started his funeral business. There was a bank name at the corner of Canal and Mart, Oriental Bank. I think it was financed by him and his drug money. So he built a name for himself. But the thing that he did wrong as an Asian, Chinese culture is try to stay low.

If you can freaking go beneath the radar or beneath the water or even hide yourself, it would be best. He was flashy. He was flashy. He wanted to play into politics and you're fucking with the wrong person.

It was during the Ronald Reagan presidency and you don't mess with Ronald Reagan, Especially when you have powerful allies like CIA, Bush, you know. So you don't mess around as an Asian. You don't mess around with that type of shit. We all know. That's in our culture.

We don't mess around with politics. And that's what brought it to light. But you yourself, in your story, you ended up you grew up in Brooklyn. You were born in Hong Kong when it was under British control. When did you come here? 1971.

Me, my sister, my younger sister, 20 months old. Under two years old. And my father and mother. So you're 20 months old. So you're effectively American. Yes. Our family came on my father's working visa.

Okay. Then we got here. They changed the status to the green card. You know, legalized working. And eventually, five, six years as a legal residence with the green card you're able to apply for citizenship and that's when we became citizen in 1976 i believe right so you are a full citizen your family is full citizens that's not something that some of your guys in the gang ended up having but do you you don't remember any of hong kong when you were growing up i assume like when you were 18 months

old that's not even possible i didn, I didn't even speak my own language when I came to America. Do you speak it now? Yeah. I got sent back to Hong Kong because I was acting up at the age of 15. How were you acting up? I was cutting school, trying to run away.

They found me. They had their ways. The family had their ways. I was mixing up with gang members, always sneaking down to Chinatown and try to become a full-blown Ghost Shadow member. But family members, because we have family friends in the Ghost Shadow hierarchy, they stopped me from doing it. They were trying to stop you from joining. During that time. Right.

As you know, we spoke about it in the car, that it's a mutual respect with my father's friend we call Uncle. He's a doctor. Yeah. He's Spanish. So I have an uncle. His name is Peter Chin. And he was one of the five generals that became the head of the Ghost Shadow

during that time. And he was a really good friend of my father. And that was the person that kept on stopping me, containing me from becoming, living that life until he got arrested. And then I was like, you know, I felt sad that he got arrested and then I was like you know I felt sad that he got arrested because I idolized him

how did he get arrested for what Rico 25 it was the 1984 Ghost Shadow Rico the federal government came down on him

and got them all 25 members of the Ghost Shadow so after he got locked up that's when I was like you know what the gates open for me you know doors open 25 members of the Ghost Shadow. So after he got locked up, that's when I was like, you know what?

The gate's open for me. Door's open. I can do whatever I want now. I can become a Ghost Shadow member. Your father was killed when you were young too, right? Yeah. And he was not in the Ghost Shadows. He was a businessman.

He was a businessman. How old were you, 10? 10. Yeah, he got killed in 1980. Why did he get killed? He did some shady dealings. As you know, shark's fin. It's a very expensive delicacy in Chinese culture.

Dry South African or South American abalone, you know, big dry abalones. They're pretty expensive too it's an expensive delicacy in Chinese food culture so he made a deal with this other businessman he was doing import export dry goods and all that stuff

and instead of actually acquiring that those products with money he actually sent the gold shadow had the ghost shadow, had the ghost shadow set up a robbery and robbed them both. Oh, he double-timed them.

Yes, he double-timed everybody. Whoa. Yeah, so he used the ghost shadow to do it. And I believe it was like, the amount came out to be almost 400 grand. 200 to 400 grand. That's something. Yeah.

We're talking about back in the 70s. Yeah, yeah. That's a nice payday well over a million bucks nowadays I'm pretty sure right and the funny thing is that

when they confronted him because when during the robbery all his jewelry got taken he got robbed too it was a setup that made it look like that

they made it look good yeah took his but he was stupid I'll tell you why It was a setup that made it look like that. They made it look good. But he was stupid. I'll tell you why. Took his Rolex watch, took his diamond ring, and he was well-known for his Rolex watch. Not many Chinese people were wearing that type of stuff back in the days. So your dad was a little flashy.

He's a fucking idiot. I'll put it that way. He's smart, but that part, he was an idiot. Three days later, people saw him wearing his jewelry again. Same shit. So the Tongs, one of the Tongs in China, Hip Sing, the godfather of China, Uncle Benny, Uncle Seven, summoned him up to the association, to the town, to question him about it.

He said, you know, Peter Wong, did you do it? No. Why'd you do it? And at first he denied it until the actual, you know, victim was confronting him. It was like, yo, you know, you fucking robbed me and you got your jewelry back and all that stuff. So how could you, how could you do that? You know, we fucking robbed me and you got your jewelry back and all that stuff. So how could you, how could you do that? You know, we had a deal. Guys, if you're still watching this video and you haven't yet hit that subscribe button,

please take two seconds and go hit it right now. Thank you. At first, like I said, my father denied it. And then at the end, he did one of those fucking Kanye shit. So what I did, what you, what now? What now? All right. So he got that fucking expression.

What now? What now? So he got that fucking expression, what now? And just because of that word, Uncle Benny, as the godfather of Chinatown, he didn't sanction it. He didn't okay for, oh, we're going to punish you, this and that. Because of my father's mother, my grandmother, came from the same village as Uncle Benny in China. So they have kind of a little blood connection.

So he's considered as a nephew. The other side is Ng. That's the last name. So him and Uncle Benny are actually first cousins. So what he said in the meeting is like So him and Uncle Benny are actually first cousins. So what he said in the meeting is like,

the palm of my hand is my meat. The face of my hand is also mine too. Who the fuck am I going to help? Should I side with you or side with him? You know what? Side of my hands. You guys deal with it. I'm not going to do nothing.

I'm not going to punish. I'm not going to reward.. I'm not going to punish. I'm not going to reward. Which is giving an opening, no? It's like, hey, go ahead. Do what the fuck you guys want to do. You kill him, he kills you. I don't care. Just leave me out of it.

It was like giving an okay. Without giving an okay. Right. All right? So the other side hired people. All you had to do back then was five to ten grand and you could take somebody out. It was that easy. And the thing about

taking the Chinese out was easy is because NYPD and Americans don't give a shit about the Asians and the Chinese. Do your fighting. Do your rough shit.

We'll mop up later on. Why do they feel that way? Because we're not important. You know what I mean? I mean, I guess. Yeah, that's how the culture was. We're just not important. Let the Chinese or the Asians take care of their shit,

and then we'll just sweep the street. As long as it doesn't get too big and the newspaper or the media catches on, we'll let them be. So your dad's case remains a cold case today? Yeah. How did they kill him? It was February 13th at night. It was snowing that night. And he owns a nightclub on Canal Street and Center Street, second floor.

So he got called in and said, oh, the front door's broken. The glass is broken. We need somebody to come and fix it. The locks are messed up. So somebody deliberately sabotaged the thing. So he has a good tradition, family values. Every night we have dinner. And after dinner, usually he'll make excuse to go out and hang out.

That night he had a phone call. He didn't want to go out because he knows it was snowing. But he had to. It was his shop. So he went out, tried to fix whatever he fixed. And then when he went back to his car that was across the street that was parked on Canal Street, it actually couldn't start.

Something was wrong. I didn't know. If you ever talk to my guy on the CGS podcast channel. Big Head? No, Michael. NYPD. Yeah, NYPD.

He knows about it because he actually did an interview with the homicide detective that was in charge. And it's still considered as a cold case nowadays. So he was fixing his car under his hood or whatever. And all of a sudden, somebody drove by in a taxi, yellow taxi. A guy got out, called his name. He turned around, shot him five times. Yeah.

You're only 10 years old when this happened. Did you know anything? I mean, your dad, obviously, like you said, wasn't in a gang or anything, but did you know anything about the street culture at that point? By that point? No, not really. I thought it was a normal thing. We would go out Sundays.

I'd go to PS 130, that was on Baxter Street in Chinatown, the grade school. But you lived in Brooklyn? Yeah. Every morning, my dad would drive us out to school. Interesting. Yeah. And my mom will either go to the garment factory and, you know, the sewing factory and work at our station. My dad would do whatever he does and then at 3 o'clock when it's time to pick me up from school and my sister, he'll send a freaking gang member to pick us up. Oh, nice.

His name is Bradley Joe. He died... He was one of the Go Shadow members. He was actually operating a gambling house in Backstreet across the Canary Street.

A what kind of house? A gambling house. Gambling house. You know where the tombs are? The tombs? The courthouse. Yeah.

On Backstreet Street. Yeah, yeah. It's facing on Center Street, but the backside of it. Pull up this map. Yeah. Across the street

from it, from the tombs, the courthouse, is where, it was undeveloped land back then. Really? They haven't even built the jailhouse yet. Even in the, well, this is 70s right now. Yeah, they haven't built it yet.

And that's where they had their, in the front it was an office, trading office or whatever. In the back of it, long ass office was just a gambling table. Business in front, party in the back. Yes, yes. And there was a bar there too. A full bar. So right where the detention complex is now, effectively. Actually, it was across the street from it, on Baxter Street.

Okay, let's zoom in on that a little bit. Let's give people a taste of New York right here. So this is just off Canal Street, like you said. And Baxter's right here? Baxter Street, yeah. Baxter across the street from the... Gotcha, so across from the park, basically. Not really.

Okay, let me see. The Supreme Court... Where's Baxter Street? Here's Supreme Court, here's Baxter Street? Here's Supreme Court. Here's Baxter Street right there. That's Baxter. Okay. Where's Kinnell Street?

Up about two blocks. It's right up here. Yeah. Word for people listening. We're on the screen. Where's that restaurant? Is that Thai Sun? Thai Sun.

Thai Sun. Right there on... Yeah, yeah. To the right. To the right. Down. Down, to the right. Down, left. Where the red dot is at?

Oh, right there. I'll click that. Can you see outside the street? Yeah, drop the little man on there. Yeah, drop the little man on the street level. Oh, so this is where it was. That's right next to it. I still remember this is an Italian restaurant, Fellini's.

To the right. Right here? No, to the right. Spinning around to the right. Spinning around to the right. Thai Sun? Next to Thai Sun. There's a Vietnamese restaurant right now.

That's it. No, no, no. Right next to it. To the right. To the right. That's Fellini's. That's the Italian restaurant. Yeah, you have to move right next to it. To the right. To the right. That's Fellini's. That's the Italian restaurant. Yeah, you have to move the screen to the right, Aless.

Sorry. To this way? Yes. Where it says faux. You see that? Yeah, the white sign. Yes, right there. Yeah, that's it.

Whoa. That's it, right there. And across the street is the courthouse where they have the tombs. That's nuts. The jailhouse. But it was undeveloped back then. None of this was there, effectively?

Not like that right now. Not like how it was right now. There wasn't much restaurants there. There was a few commercial spaces that was, some of them weren't even read. It was considered as the outskirts of Chinatown. It was the border outskirts of

Chinatown. Because Chinatown effectively borders Little Italy. Little Italy, courthouse. It's like all right on top of each other. I haven't spent a ton of time in Chinatown. I've spent a lot of time in Little Italy over the years. But yeah, it's right by the courthouse. It's like all right on top of each other. And then Lower East Side, yeah. I haven't spent a ton of time in Chinatown. I've spent a lot of time in Little Italy over the years. But yeah, it's right by the courthouse.

Chinatown's not like what it used to be. So your father is killed. You're a little boy. How did you deal? What did your mom say happened? What was the story you got? I knew it right away. It was traumatizing.

Of course. I idolized my father like he's God. Gave me everything I... I was his only son. He was the oldest son. I was the oldest grandson. So we carried a family name. We were very important to our family.

Even though it wasn't much in America, but it was still pretty important. Sure. And it seemed like somebody took something away from me that was very valuable. I just lost it. And it became a very angry kid at a very young age. Did you want revenge against who did it? Absolutely.

That's the only thing on my mind. How long, like how old were you when you actually learned what really happened? Right then at that time. I think I grew up instantly during that time. As I remember now, it seems like from a kid turning to an angry teenager that just want to kill something. I just want to take my anger out. I don't care if that person dies. I don't care if that person dies. I don't care if anybody dies. I just want to take my anger out

that you took something from me, I'm going to take everything from you. When I go to a playground and when I see a father and son playing happily, I want them both fucking dead because I don't have that happiness in my family in my life no more you took that away from me I want everybody not to have to so there's a real anger that snaps inside crazy stupid had you ever

been like good in school before then I was really good yeah and now you start cutting school you start acting out I just didn't want... I have no drive. My only drive of success in school was to please my father. I want him to be proud of me. Hey, Dad, I'm doing good. I got 100 in math tests, whatever. I want to show him my schoolwork, my success, my high grades.

And now he's not there. My mom's around, but I didn't care about her. You didn't care about what she thought about what you did in school? I kind of forgot about her. When my father died, I kind of forgot about her. Had you had a good relationship with your mom before? Not really. I was a pretty...

an asshole of a kid. Those kids that you don't want to be there because I was spoiled by my father. I do what I want, say what I want, act up whatever I want. I have touchy fingers. I like to, I'm a curious cat. I break things in other people's houses

but my father laughs it off. My mother will beat the shit out of me. When I was a kid I grew up in Gravesend, Chipset Bay. We were the only Chinese family in that neighborhood. It was Irish, Jewish, and Italian. So we grew up loving the Mets. You know, Shea Stadium? Yeah, yeah.

Nowadays it's called MetLife Stadium. Back thenets. Shea Stadium. Yeah, yeah. Nowadays it's called MetLife Stadium. Back then it was Shea Stadium. So first time they took me to a baseball game, I got this little bat, right? Little white bat. My mom beat the fuck out of me. And broke that shit. I'm serious.

Chasing me around the fucking house because I think I lit a firecracker inside the car. My father laughed it off. Oh, nice. There you go. Burnt his freaking couple hundred dollar suit jacket, you car. My father laughed it off. There you go. Burnt his freaking couple hundred dollar suit jacket, you know,

but he laughed it off because I was his only son. Everything I did, even though it was mischief, it was, he was still proud of me. You're the apple of his eye. Yeah.

Right. Never laid a hand on me, but my mom was a different case. Oh my God. Shit. You know, you ever heard of the Singapore lashes, you know?

No. What's a Singapore lash? ever heard of the Singapore lashes? No. What's a Singapore lash? It's the freaking bamboo stick. You know, with the feathers. They use it for dusting. You ever seen it?

No. Can we pull this up a little? Yeah, the dusters. The Chinese chicken feather dusters. Maybe I'll know when I see it. Singapore lash.

Yeah, but it's almost like a Singapore lash when they fucking lash the shit out of you. I beat you. Singapore lash. Yeah, but it's almost like a Singapore lash when they fucking lash the shit out of you. I beat you. You know, one of those two American kids that chew gum and spit out on the street, they got freaking lashes or whatever.

It's almost like that. Your mom would chase you around the house with the Singapore lashes. In the beginning, it hurt. After a while, I built the tolerance of pain. But then I realized that at a young age, the more she beat me and the more I held on and not freaking cry, she's going to beat up, she'll get even more mad.

So I'll act up and once she hits me a couple times, I start crying. I create this... The illusion of pain. Yeah, and I start crying pretending to cry and she'll stop and I'll say sorry I was like

that's when I learned how to deal with getting away with shit a little manipulation yeah a lot of manipulation yeah I think we're having trouble finding this

yeah check out the Chinese chicken feather duster Chinese chicken feather duster yeah yeah I really want to see what this looks like feather duster yeah Chinese chicken feather duster. Yeah. Yeah, I really want to see what this looks like. Feather duster.

Yeah, yeah, there you go. Yeah. Oh, she hit you with that. Like the broad side of that. Yes. She be holding the feather side and that's bamboo. Oh, yeah.

And it hurts like a bitch. Yeah. That'll do it. And your dad never did. Not even a finger. Take your time we got a cough button over here

for that reason so it'll leave a freaking mark on you oh yeah the middle will be will be light but the both sides

of it it'll be red you know it'll be swollen and red I had lots of those marks back when I was here and that was before your dad

was dead. Yeah. She would do that. Yeah, but after my father died, I was everything to my mother. Even though I had two younger sisters, but she tried to hold on to me. As the new man at the house.

But I kind of like forgot about her. I forgot I even have two sisters. That's how sad it was because anger and bitterness overcame all my other emotions that I don't have no more. All I have in my eyes is the feeling that I want revenge. I want to kill. I want to hurt. I want to hurt somebody because it's hurting me.

So you'd cut school, and what would you do during the day? Hang out with friends, hang out with other gang members, try to get close to Chinatown, eventually blend in. Were they older friends? Yeah, and not let them know that I'm what you call his son. Oh, they didn't know that? No, I didn't let them know. Until a couple of them, later on they found out

and they tried to stop me. Right, you were saying. So when you're, eventually by the time you're 15. 15. Like we, so you were, you were breaking the law and committing crimes from 10 to 15 with some of the gang members? Yes.

What kinds of things? Robbery, extortion, auto death. Auto death? Yes. Yeah, this is what we do. We have a broken-ass car, one of those junk-ass dusters, Dodge dusters. We'll be carrying a gun.

We'll drive down Park Avenue. We see a brand new Mercedes Benz. Back then, they only had the phones inside. Some of them don't even have it. It's a luxury. We'll drive there. We'll stop right at the light. I'll walk around.

I'll pull the gun. Who's going to be able to freaking call the cops on us? On Park Avenue? On Park Avenue. I'll take the... Yo, get out of the car. Point the gun at... Get out.

You're like 13 years old. Point the gun at... Yeah. Get out the car, and then we'll take it up to... I'll drive it back to Brooklyn. I can hardly even reach the gas pedal, but we'll take it back to Brooklyn,

and somebody will take it to the chop shop and get money for it. And I'll get my fair share. Gotcha. So you're doing some arm robbery. Fucking everything. 12, 13. I was robbing, I'll say it now, robbing

fucking crack dealers in Fordham Road. No shit. I would offer the crack heads, yo, take me to the spot, I'll give you some crack. And I'll take their money. Yeah, bring me up there. Well, that's a little bit of some Omar Little shit right there. That was Little shit.

A little bit of street justice. Yeah, but. You're still taking it, but. Yeah. Now, and then it eventually escalates to robbing heroin dealers. Brick by brick. I hear people got bricks. You're a dealer.

I'm going to fucking rob you. Where would you rob them? At their house? At where? No, no, no. Not by You're a dealer I'm gonna fucking rob you Where would you rob them? At their house? At where? No, no, no Not by Fort Amaro? I'm talking about Chinese Some of them are connected

But I have to, you know Put on a mask Ski mask The ski mask wasn't as sophisticated as You know, nowadays We use whatever bandana Hide our faces Put on a pair of sunglasses

You know And we'll rob the drug dealers. How many of you would rob a drug dealer at a time? Discover the exciting action of BetMGM Casino. Check out a wide variety of table games with a live dealer or enjoy over 3,000 games to choose from like Cash Eruption, UFC Gold Blitz. Make instant deposits or same-day withdrawals. Download the BetMGM Ontario app today. Visit BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wager Ontario only.

Please gamble responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Whatever they have, I'll take everything from them. No, no, but how many of you?

Would it just be you going alone, cowboy? Two guys and a driver. A getaway driver. The less people, the better. Did you have close calls at that age with being arrested? No, not even. I never got caught red-handed in a sense. I mean, I got locked up for petty stuff, like, you know, for being careless.

Like, I really don't give a fuck. I even thought the NYPD would be after me with extortion, you know? I didn't think that was in the law list. I was like, damn, I got a fucking full list of shit, and you're going to come after me for this? What types of extortion stuff would you do? When we're kids, we don't have much money.

We spend all our money on video games, hang out all night, running 90 girls, you know. Mm-hmm. Run our money. So what we do is that we run our money and we think about how we're going to hit it. How we're going to do the next day.

You know, extort people. Oh, there's a Chinese restaurant over there. Stop by there. So I go inside the order and then I say, who's the Chinese restaurant over there. Stop by there. So I go inside the order. And then I say, who's the owner? Something's wrong with the order. So the owner comes in.

What's wrong with it, young man? I said, I'm from the Ghost Shadow. Oh, you would introduce yourself as the gang? From now on, you're protected under my watch. And you're like 13 telling them this? A little bit older than that. Okay. Yeah.

14. Yeah, I graduated a little bit. Give them my pager number. Call me if something happens, but I want this much today. Give me 200 today. Every week I come by and pick up 200. What happened if you said no? Yeah, say no.

You're not opening up tomorrow. All right? And usually they know what's up. Once I give them the name, we'll go shadow. But you hadn't been officially inducted into the gang at that point. No, but I claimed to be one. You just say you were. I just claimed to be one.

But you'd be doing this sometimes with guys who were. Yeah. Right. Some, well, mix of gangs. Like my childhood friend. Right. The NYPD detective, Michael. Michael White.

Yeah, yeah. The CGS creator. Your channel, CGS. Wow. I participate. I'm not the channel. He's an actual channel. So when we were kids, we lived in the same neighborhood.

We grew up together. So before he was NYPD, he was just a fucking hangover. So you knew him as Mikey down the block? He's like my older brother. That's hilarious. Yeah, but I do all the dirty work. And he drives it, and he gives me ideas. He's the fucking brain, and I'll be the operator.

He'll be the brain. He's the fucking brain and I'll be like, I'll be the operator. He'll be the brain. He's fucking smart. Oh, yeah. And I'm not going to say everything because he has a book coming out. I don't want to ruin his shit. But there's a lot of shit that we did when we were kids.

So long before he was in the NYPD, we got away with a lot of shit. He was running with you. Yeah. I was running with him because he's older than me. Like I said, he was the brain. He'll figure something out, and I'll let you know. Let's do it.

Let's do it. All right? And I was like, oh, who's going to do it? Don't worry. I got it. Just try, man. Make sure you don't fucking leave me here, all right? Make sure you don't leave me here.

Wait around the corner. I'll be right out. I'll be right out. But your one uncle, The guy you called an uncle Had gone down with Rico And your father obviously had passed on You're running around with all these gangsters And you said when you were 15

Some of them were looking out for you Saying no he shouldn't be in this I guess they got word to your mom Well my grandfather and grandmother They discussed it with my mom. They said the best thing to do is send them back to Hong Kong. And they were in Hong Kong? No, my mother's side.

Okay, so not her parents. Yeah, yeah. My mother's side was still in Hong Kong. My grandmother and my mom's younger brothers and sisters. So they were able to look after me, but actually not. So when I went back to Hong Kong, they tricked me into staying. What do you mean they tricked you? Everybody got round-trip, you know, it was supposed to be a vacation.

I was the only one with the fucking one-way ticket, you know, and that was no return. And then they hit you with the chloroform when you got there. No, they freaking registered me in high school. I thought it was internet. I accepted the fact when they tricked me that I'm not going back to the U.S. I said, all right, I'll stay here as long as I can. And you speak the language at this point, obviously. You didn't speak any of it.

No, it was sad. It was sad. I got made fun of in school. So they registered me into a Chinese school. And this is in Hong Kong, which was still under the British protectorate? Under British rule, yeah. They were teaching English,

but there was only two classes. Their major thing was mathematics, you know, the typical fucking Asian shit. Can we pull up Hong Kong on the map? And can you also pull up the population, unless they just give people an idea? It's like freaking 7 million people, I believe. There you go. Okay.

Because that's obviously a heated debate today with like, oh, should they have freedom from China now as opposed to Britain? But the people in Hong Kong consider themselves Chinese, right? They are Chinese. Yeah. See, that's why – that's the reason – let's put it this way. I'm Chinese ethnically, but nationality-wise, I'm American. Right. Now, if you ask me if it goes to war today between China, who am I going to fight?

I'm going to say I don't give a fuck. I don't care for either side. But I do love this country. Why I love this country? I grew up in this country. Besides what my choices, bad choices that I did, the path that I walked through, everything else treated me fine.

I love this fucking country. All my friends and families are here. I love my people, but that's another story. I understand. That's culture-wise. It has nothing to do with politics. If you ask me if they go to war today,

I'm going to say, just leave me the fuck out of it. I don't care. I got you. But the people in Hong Kong, they're kind of funny maybe they've been slaves for

over 200 years 200-300 years what do you mean slaves? they were fucking British subjects for 200-300 years you know and they grew up in that environment

it's a new generation it's the woke generation you know that they that they claim nowadays I really don't care but they claim to be American when you don't fucking speak English they claim to be. I really don't care. But they claim to be American when you don't fucking speak English.

They claim to be British when you don't even speak their fucking, you don't even have the British accent. So it's a joke. It's all politics, and I don't play into that shit. It's none of my business. But they're just stupid people. They see their own people, they step on. They see other people, they worship. It's kind of like a slave shit to me.

How long were you there? Less than 18 months. Probably like around 15, 16 months. And you get made fun of in school. You're learning the language at least. But would you try to skip school there and get in trouble there too i couldn't i couldn't it was so fucking strict they lock the gates once you walk in that makes it hard yo you gotta climb the fucking gates and they're like fucking eight feet

tall did you have any friends in my class classmates they were they were what curious about me um fucking asian yellow guy with heavy... A Brooklyn accent. Don't have any slightest idea how to speak proper Chinese. Cantonese. Some of them laugh. Some of them actually bully me.

And for some reason, I think it's the milk that I grew up on, fucking beat the shit out of these squirty Chinese. It took two of them and it still couldn't beat, couldn't overcome me. So, and they were triad members.

Ooh. So they gave me a lot of problems. I snuck out the back door of the school, you know, really climbed the fences, tried to escape from their beatings. And eventually I said, you know what?

I asked one of my classmates, what's their fucking rival triad? I'm going to fuck them up. I'm going to fuck these scrawny bitches up. So I joined a different triad. It was called Lü Nying Xie. I was made into,

initiated into, not fully initiated. I was a following member and I had protection. How does the triads work? I mean, we hear that term all the time, but like... Triads are a different breed. How so? Very organized.

Okay. I'll put it this way. Not being racist, okay? You know how to mob because they're white? They're able to play in very easily and do a lot of shakedown in New York City because they're white. To an extent.

They control the concrete business, the garment business, anything. They have their hands in the union, everything. If it's a myth or whatever, I don't care, but I'm just saying. No, that's real. Yeah. Absolutely. With the Chinese, the triads, because Hong Kong is basically all Chinese, 7 million population.

So the triad members are easily doing shakedowns. And they do the same thing. They have a lockdown on new construction sites. So when they build a construction estate, it's like co-ops and condos. They're like 20 to 30 stories each building. And each estate will have probably like around

4,000 combined as an estate. A couple acres. You're talking about a very big couple hundred million dollars of project. Sure. They want a piece because that's their turf.

Territory. Yeah. So they'll put their hands in security, building supply, concrete delivery. Get it. Vertical integration. Yeah. So they're very sophisticated in their racket too. And it's a very similar idea to like Cosa Nostra and what they do, just the Chinese version effectively.

Yes, exactly. But how far back does that history go? Like we know Cosa Nostra came from Sicily in the late 1800s over here. But how old is the triads? The triads are probably formed after the Ming Dynasty. What year did the Ming Dynasty? I think the 1700s.

Oh, so they're way back. Let's pull up the Triads. The Ming Dynasty at the end, 1644. So 1644 was the Qing Dynasty. The Manchurians invaded China. They're considered outside tribe.

They're from northeastern China. Yeah. So the triads, it says, founded 1885. Okay. It started rebelling against the outsiders because the Qing were Manchurians. They weren't blended into the Han culture. Is that where we get the term Manchurian candidate? Probably.

Yeah. Right? That would make sense. Okay. Yeah. They're considered outside invaders. Got it. Yeah.

So China has only been invaded by outsiders twice, the Mongols and the Manchurians. And this was the second time and the last time they got invaded. And so the triads formed as a result of that. And it was an underground organization to rebel against the tyranny of outside invader government. So it starts as a rebel righteously against invaders who are coming into the country and then once that stops and invaders leave at some point or are kicked out and the country is back to itself, that rebel gang

now continues to be a rebel gang against their own government because they don't trust any of the system. Exactly. Now also when they during the what you call it, when they overdo the Manchurians in the early 1900s, I think it was, what, 1912 was when the Manchurians got overdue. Okay.

Okay. Now, that already started with the nationalists. And then right at the beginning, the nationalists, when there's no outsiders, the fucking Chinese tend to like to fight each other. It's always like that. When there's peace, they fight amongst each other. When there's outside invaders, they all band together, no matter what tribe.

Where have we heard that one before? So these fuckers, right after they overdrew the Manchurian, they start fighting bickering with each other. Who's going to run the government? Who's going to be this? Who's going to be that? And eventually, you have the Communist Party and the Nationalists. Chiang Kai-shek and Mao Zedong, they start fighting.

I think the triad escaped from China after the communists took over. They went to Hong Kong to get safe haven. That's when they started coming really big in the 1950s in Hong Kong. So they focused on Hong Kong and not so much mainland China then. What about today though? They were done with the rebel business. Now they're doing the organized crime business. Right, right.

So they just transferred a little bit. But what about today? Are they in mainland China a lot? They're all over the place. They're all over. They're allowed as long as they're being contained. Now, when 1997 came, when Hong Kong was British rule was cut off. It had to be turned back to China.

The Chinese government actually sent high level of members and also with police and law enforcement. They go down and they have meetings with the triads. Oh, the head of the triads.

I was thinking you were going to say they arrested him. Well, it wasn't even a meeting. It was a, I came here to tell you, all right? I want to tell you what you guys are doing. All right?

When we let you live, we let you live. All right? We know everything about you guys. When we want you to survive, we'll let you survive. When we want you dead, we'll fucking take care of it.

All right? We have the power. Don't think you're in Hong Kong. You're back in China's hand now. If you don't behave, you're done. So the British had no control over these guys whatsoever when they were there? British were doing, well, they were corrupted. Yeah.

They were taking their money. Even the governor was taking money. Even the governor was taking money. Even the governor was taking money. It was a lot of heroin. Heroin money. Heroin was a big thing in Hong Kong. And then after that, everybody's people. They let them live.

They let them do to an extent. Don't create problem for us. We won't give you problem. How does the triads over there, though, relate to the triads here? Is it an extension here or is it really separate? No, it's separate. Very separate. Like I said, I'll put myself out there.

New York City gang, when we started, we were just low level. We were low level. We weren't highly sophisticated. We weren't really organized until later on in the years. Once we established ourselves, we have a good racket going, then we were considered organized crime. Got it. But we were all street thugs.

Nothing special about me. I'm just a Chinese guy, Chinese kid, going around freaking taunting their own people. Yes, I'm ashamed of it. I'm ashamed of what I did, but I did what I did. I won't regret it, but I'm ashamed of it. Well, some of it, at least when you were over there,

seems like it was a bit of a survival tactic, too. I mean, like like you're getting the shit kicked out of you every day by the triad so you figure out how to join the triad so you stop getting the shit kicked out of you yeah but then i became one of those assholes terrorizing normal people too you know um you know terrorizing them like taking money from them or slaughtering them so the triads the way you made that sound i want to make sure i'm right here the triads effectively had you you made that sound, I want to make sure I'm right here, the triads effectively had young students in school who were already a member of their gang. And so now you get into that and now you're picking on other young students at

their behest. Yes. They go by numbers. They need numbers. Because back there, they don't fight with guns. They don't have much guns. Gun trade is not a big thing in Hong Kong. The British have everything controlled. If you go to England right now, even the cops don't carry a gun. Gun trade is not a big thing in Hong Kong. The British have everything controlled.

If you go to England right now, even the cops don't carry a gun. So guns are very limited in that part of the world. So is it knife? Oh, no. It's freaking machetes. Oh, shit. We're talking about the Gerger's freaking machetes. Cutting freaking trees and chopping hands and heads. Yes.

And, oh, my God. So you freaking trees and chopping hands and heads. Yes. And, oh my God. So you learned how to wheel a machete pretty good. There's an incident that happened. They were fighting over our territory. I was called in because after that, I was going to be a full-blown initiated member. This isn't at school? No.

Okay. It was at the... Smegenshire. But I was only 15 years old. Right. And he said, I want to see your true colors. See how you react. Are you brave enough?

So the fucking guy was on the floor. One of the guys said, yo, go over there. Fucking knife him, right? That's not knifing. It was a fucking shitty. I don't know how to use it. I was 15 years old. I accidentally stuck it in.

I don't know if you lived or not. I'm not getting that. But I was underage. I'll do a shanye. Now what? But I was 15 years old. I put it this way. I don't have any bad feelings towards it.

I'm not going to feel remorse about it. How I felt about that life is that once you step in that coliseum, to me it's a gladiator thing. Once you step foot in that coliseum coliseum there's no rules yeah you know what it is all right it is what it is all right i've said to people in the past when i've had you know some guys who were in the mob and stuff on on the show you know obviously i'd taken a life on any level is wrong but to me there there is a difference if i were sitting across from some regular dude who killed his wife versus you know a gangster who was involved in some gangland killings.

It's like when you sign up for that life, you either go in the box or in the grave. That's kind of how it goes. You know what you signed up for, and it is what it is. I'm not saying it makes it right, but there is a level of difference there from a human perspective. But also, you're 15, 16 with that story you're talking about. You're so young. You don't have any ability to really comprehend what you're doing. In my mind, I'll tell you what I was thinking.

I was like, yeah, he's testing me. I got to pass the test. That's all I was thinking. Nothing else on my mind. I got to pass the test. That's all I was thinking. Nothing else on my mind. I got to pass the test. Were you looking for like a father figure? I wasn't.

I was looking to... I give you something I know you're going to protect me. That's what... We're doing exchange. That's what's in my mind. I have to prove to you that I can do it.

So that way, you look after me. So I didn't know how to figure... I that I can do it. So that way you look after me. So I didn't know how to figure it out. I was supposed to chop him. Chop him, won't kill him. I fucking asked him and he stuck it in him. Wait, chopping him won't kill him? Eventually, if the infection after a couple of days,

if the wound doesn't... Wait, I'm thinking of chopping the wrong way here. I'm thinking like a full machete chop. It's a slice. You're supposed to slice it. We call it... On the arm? Yeah, whatever.

In Chinese, we call it peh. It's not to kill. Okay. It's to hurt. Okay. Disable, in a way. Understood. I had no idea how we started.

You just went... Yeah. And he was laying on the fucking floor. How old was the guy? I don't know. Probably a little bit older than me. I pissed in my pants. I didn't even know I was scared or excited.

But the funny thing is that the next day when I woke up from this, I had no feeling. Nothing? No. I didn't feel scared or whatever, you know. Where were you living at this time? I was living with my grandmother. They had no idea. They had no idea you were out there with machetes? No, they had no idea.

I was keeping it so secret from them. But I imagine you're gone all hours, right? Yeah, I was telling them I was going to... It was a common practice. We'd go to other classmates' house to do homework. Come back with cuts all over your fucking hands and shit. Yeah, it was really hard, didn't it? Oh, I fell, you know.

But the funny thing is that one of my mom's younger brother was a triad member too. From the same triad as Jimmy, you know, Big Head. Oh, yeah, from your channel. Yeah. So they tried to shake me out. You've been hanging around people in your school. I said, no, I just go to class. Hang out with a few friends.

You better not join the freaking triad. I said, no, I would never. You're already in it. Yeah, I was like, you fucking dumbass. Now, did you? Yeah, I was a very arrogant kid. I was very slick. After that machete incident, though, did you get officially inducted?

Oh, yeah. We took down all our clothes until only our drawers were there. We had to bear naked. Only our drawers were, we were wearing our drawers. That shows you your. Where are you when this is happening like do they come

and do they come and get you and say they come and get me after school they round me up who comes and gets you the older members

of the triad so non-school yes it doesn't happen every month right they set up a whole bunch

and then they said oh it's time to fully initiate these wordy people into our triad and it was like 9, 10 of us and we were bare naked

and somebody was reading the script to us the triad script the initiating script which is like what? what are they saying to you? be loyal to your brothers. Don't fucking commit adultery within the organization.

That means don't fuck with each other's wives. Yeah, don't fuck with another guy's wife. Keep your hands clean. What are you? And then they'll ask you, what do you love? You love money or your brothers? Of course you can say money. You're not going to say brothers, not money.

So that's what we said. That's what we have to say. Where was it again? Where did they take you? It's in one of those mini branches where they have General Kwan's statue.

Wait, in one of the what branches? One of the triad branches. So is it like a safe house? Not really. It's like an association. Oh, like a social club. Like a big freaking table. Okay.

And then all the members come, you know, have meetings for that branch or whatever, you know. And how many of you were getting initiated? Nine to ten. And how many guys are in there from the triads reading this off to you or standing around? There was like around two, three guys.

The guy that I was directly under and the other guy that was a little bit hierarchy and that was able to do this type of ceremony because everybody has a number. Maybe Jimmy in the future, Big Head, could explain to you, because I wasn't really into it, but every member... He's not into it, he's only getting inducted. Yeah, I'm part of the member, I'm good, okay, I'll be protected. Every member, when you're inducted into it, has a member number. 49 means a soldier.

438 is considered as the council. So there are different levels and numbers that are able to do this type of strip or ceremony. Not everybody can hold ceremony. And once the ceremony is completed, they put you down in what you call it? It's like a black book. And they bring it to the main branch,

and they'll put the name in. So you're in there for life. Yes, so that's why the fucking Chinese are something. They're so smart, but they're so fucking stupid at the name in. So you're in there for life. Yes, so that's why the fucking Chinese are something. They're so smart, but they're so fucking stupid at the same time. You should have a fucking list written down who the fuck is the active member. I mean, to me it's stupid, right?

At least the Italians can freaking write their name and burn it. Yeah, they burn it in their hand. What, you're going to fucking go to a prosthetic crime scene lab and fucking recover your freaking name? Right. That's stupid, you know. They're so smart in a way and they're so fucking stupid in a way too.

So my name is on there forever. Today. It should be. It should be there. The cops have never found that black book? I don't know if they did. If they did, they still can't prosecute me because during that time, it was British rule. Oh, so the laws all changed with that.

That was before 97. So is there like a no grandfather? So if I, whatever day it was, August, whatever, 1997, if I killed someone the day before, the day after, I'm good? I don't know. But it's not the same police. You get what I mean, right? It's not the same police. And get what I mean, right? It's not the same police. And another thing, I was underage.

They're very strict with underage in Hong Kong during that time, under the British rule. If you're a minor, you're a minor. Not like America nowadays that, you know, you're a minor, we'll fucking try you as a adult. Yeah, yeah. The British don't mix that around. The British are very strict

with certain things. You know how, you know, they're very, they're very fucking awkward, the British. Okay? You know how they are.

They only go one way. They don't go another way. Use the machete. It's all good. He was 15. Yeah. It's fine. We'll let that one slide.

All right. So, I'm not sure if they could prosecute me or not, but it's... Well, don't go back to Hong Kong. You won't find out. I never did. I don't intend to find out. So I try to avoid going back to Hong Kong.

I might travel to China. And if I do, I'll go to Shanghai. Have you been to China since this time? One day. No, no, since this day? No. Okay, all right. I don't think I've ever traveled more than one day in China.

That was when I was 15 years old. Yeah, yeah. That one day, yeah. I was like, shit, I don't know what the fuck China is. Right. I don't know. Besides my skin and my fucking eyes slanted and yellow, the fuck do I know about China?

I know nothing. You hear this accent of mine. Yeah, you sound like an Italian from Brooklyn. You send me back to Hong Kong or China. With me, with an American accent,

even with my Cantonese or Mandarin, the fuck did they get to think? I'm a fucking spy for the American government. Yeah, they're fucking... Yo, then they're going to give the fucking Singapore lashes on me. Yeah.

They'll fucking beat me down. You'll be in some trouble with that. So let's put it this way. I will never betray where I live, like I said, but I will never betray my people also. Just don't want nothing to do with it. All right, so you joined the triads, though. I guess you were around like 16 years old or something like that. What changed when that happened?

Did they start giving you significantly more responsibilities? What types of crimes were you getting into? They have a racket with protection, like business protection. Mainly nightlife. Bars, pubs, nightclubs where they have PRs, public relation girls. They sit at the table, they drink with you, and if you pay enough money, you can take them home. That type of thing. It's called prostitution.

Yeah, but high end in a way. A little high end. Okay. I was appointed to protection, you know, and follow under a leader that does all the protection for the racket. And then certain sectors of, certain triads don't allow drug dealing.

But it's bullshit, you know. Right. They claim not to do drugs, sell drugs. I got into contact because I was a pretty able kid. I was smart, slick. So there's a hire member who actually gave me these called blue pills. They're like hallucinatory type of drugs.

And it's pretty popular among the younger kids. I'd be selling it to them. So there were some drug problems in Hong Kong. There's always, everywhere's drug problems. Yeah. Yeah. And I make pretty good money. But then...

Would you sell it like in school? All over the place, everywhere. So we have discos.os well we call clubs right back then it was still considered called uh discos we go to discos uh clubs hang out um there was a culture of uh in hong kong during the time that you know people like to dance it was back in the 80s, dancing to Modern Talking. Right, right, right. The Eurobeat music. And I would go into the clubs and sell it to kids.

So there's afternoon clubs and nighttime clubs. Afternoon clubs are considered as parties. We're allowed on weekends. So a lot of students go. Kids, young kids, teenagers go. I'll be selling there. And that was your main business, doing drugs? Those were a couple.

And then sometimes because I was a little, I proved myself that I could fight, you know. When they have certain things that they need to deal with muscle and numbers, they will send me and, you know, a band of guys and we'll just go beat up people or, you know, cut people up or whatever. When did you learn to fight, like as a young kid in New York? Actually, New York, I was pretty... Before I was sent back to the hotel, like I said, me and Michael and a few other guys were terrorizing our neighborhood

back in, you know, our neighborhood. Beating people up. Doing the normal kid stuff, you know. Instead of being bullied, we bully people. It's bad. That's one thing that I don't prove up. And eventually, the more you start punching people, hurting people, kicking them,

you get used to it and you become very flexible. Hey guys, if you have a second, please be sure to share this episode around on social media and with your friends whether it's reddit instagram facebook twitter doesn't matter it's all a huge help it gets new eyeballs on the show and it allows us to grow and survive so thank you to all of you who have already been doing that and thank you to all of you who are going to do so now do you remember your first time having to do that, though? Were you hesitant as it was happening? Kind of.

Yeah. Because you're hurting somebody. I was hurting somebody. But then, like I said, ever since my father died, all I had was hatred. And I was like, you know what? Fuck it. Fuck that guy. Right.

Hope he dies, too. That type of shit. It was pretty evil, you know, in the mind. And that's when I developed that type of big skin. Yeah, and you developed that skill that's then used with the triads. So they would send you sometimes to shake people down who weren't paying, things like that. There's a difference in Hong Kong Kong to right in the school culture I don't know if you've seen the Korean

Korean So poppers. No Okay, they got this fucking school culture in a Far East Asia As young as junior high school they start fucking one-on-one fights to see who the fuck is the toughest in their grade. And that's where we practice. And I will beat the shit out of everybody. Because I was, like I said, I grew up on American milk. Maybe it has something to do with the protein that I have.

I'm much stronger than these fucking guys back in the Holocaust. They're scrawny. It's like they're malnutrition or something. Hey, you're from the protein that I have. I'm much stronger than these fucking guys back in the hot guy. They're scrawny. It's like they're malnutrition or something. Hey, you're from the streets of New York. Yeah, we grew up on pizza, hamburgers, and hot dogs. So they aren't only rice and vegetables, so maybe they're weaker. But I was

able to beat a lot of guys. I wasn't the toughest, but I was able to beat a lot of guys. With the John Wick type of share well, I want you fucking lot of guys. I wasn't the toughest, but I was able to beat a lot of guys. And with the John Wick type of sheer will, I want you fucking hurt more than me. I want you. Gave me the

motivation to beat the shit out of them. And win a lot of fights. So how soon after, when you got sent to Hong Kong at 15 and put in the school and everything, how soon after that did you get initiated into the triad? Like within a year? Three months, three to six months.

Oh, that was real fast. Yeah, it was really fast. And besides, I speak English, so they find it very, you know. Yeah, you didn't waste any time making sure you got in there. Yeah, they were like, oh, fucking interesting. Chinese fucking English-speaking kid, you know. Foreign exchange student that wants to join a triad. Oh, we accept them, make us look good.

So you must have picked up the language pretty quick, though, too. Like Cantonese. When you're with them every day. Yeah. Yeah, we go to school together, we hang out together. That's a tough language. Cantonese is kind of easy. It was probably because I was born into Cantonese.

I hear it all the time. Right. I just don't speak it right. Right. Okay. Every couple words, I don't know how to finish the sentence. I will use English. Right.

Yeah. But you were only in Hong Kong for like 18 months, I think you said? Less than 18 months around, yeah. How did you end up back in America? I got so sick of it. And also, besides that time that I did the knifing, there was another incident. Some people got hurt. I'm pretty sure they were very seriously hurt by my hands.

What happened? We were sent to beat somebody down. I happened to have a knife, and I stuck it in the person again. And that time, that guy was non-responsive on the floor. now, I happen to have a knife and I stuck it in the person again. And that time, that guy was non-responsive on the floor. And I kind of like, you know what, I don't want to get fucking locked up here.

I kind of felt that I need to leave. I want to go back to New York. Had you been talking to your mom or your sisters at all during this time? Maybe once a month. Because phone calls are pretty expensive.

International calls. So I made a bullshit story saying that I'm being bullied while I was bullying people to my aunt and my grandmother and my father's mother.

And because I was the crown jewel of the family, they sent money to, so I got the plane ticket. And I was like, you know what? I'm going back to New York next week. My mom didn't even know until the day I left, I got on a plane. No shit. Yep.

And you were what, 17, 18? No, I was 16. Oh, you were still 16. Yeah, I went there 1985. 86 in the summertime I came back. No, not in the summertime. 85 in the beginning and 86 in like around, I believe like around October. I remember when I came home that's when the Mets won their World Series oh yeah 86

yes they won the World Series when Darryl Strawberry they were still on the team when they won the World Series I remember that came home right before that I was watching it

in New York when they won the World Series. But when you go to leave, did you tell the triads, like, all right, thanks for everything? I didn't say shit. You didn't say shit. You just left. I just left. So as far as today, they're like, damn, I wonder what happened to that motherfucker.

Yeah, right. Fucking, well, he disappeared. They still have no idea. I wonder if some of them are watching you on YouTube, like, son of a bitch, there he is. I got some friends that used to be in my gang in New York. They're back there, and they said, yo, I see you. They called me over. They called over from Hong Kong.

They said, yo, asshole, come back here. Where you been? Come back to Hong Kong. Interview us. I said, nah, I don't think I want to come back. Oh, my God. So you just peaced. Like one day they're like, oh, Kenny's gone.

Listen, even if they listen to me right now, I still don't want to go back. Even if I'm safe, I really don't feel like I want to go back to Hong Kong. As someone who's not a lawyer, if I were your lawyer, I would advise you not to go back there. Yeah, don't start trouble. For sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I feel like there could be a few things following you around there. Well, in America, I did my time.

I copped out to everything. We'll get there. We'll get there. I'm good over here. Yeah, you're good here. So I'm good here. But in Hong Kong, I'm my time. I copped out to everything. We'll get there. I'm good over here. So I'm good here. But in Hong Kong, I'm not sure. I don't want to find out. Let's not find out.

I hear the prisons there aren't great. But you get back to America at 16. So now, I guess you didn't have the thought of like, well, I was a member of the triads there. Let me hook up with the triads here. Instead, you tried to go right back to the ghost shadows. Yes. Like right away.

Right away. Right away. Well, actually, not even – I cut in right in the middle of semester, right? End of 86, beginning of 87. And by 87, I was down in Chinatown already. The beginning of 87. And by 87 I was down in Chinatown already. Did you tell them you had joined like the Triads? No, I just joined.

Because I already knew a lot of memories back then. I've been to a lot of them. I grew up with a lot of them. So did you get a... you're skipping school obviously, cutting out of school and you're going back to the same rackets you were in. But did you get inducted officially into the ghost shadows in a similar way you did to triads i was i was under a guy named big steve during that time big steve yeah he was a active member

of uh the ghost shadow the some of the higher hierarchy right i wouldn't picture a Chinese gangster named Big Steve but that's just me he's big he's big he's taller than me he's like 6 foot something for Asian Chinese guys

he's pretty tall he's up there not Yao Ming but he's up there he's up there average American average American size so

I was working with him I would he would I I was working with him. I would go everywhere with him. I would be the active carrier, the guy that carries the gun. I liked the gun. Had you carried a gun before? I was still underage. Right. But when you were 13, 14, you were sticking people up, like you said, without robberies.

So did you carry it or you just use it for those? No, I don't carry it every day, but when I do go to Chinatown, I'll have it on me. Okay, so now at this point you have a gun that you're carrying all the time. Every day. I'm the guy that carries the gun. I'm the responsible person. What kind of gun?

It was a 9mm. Sometimes it was a 9mm, sometimes it was a.38. Where'd you get it? He would give it to me. He has, I don't know how many guns he has. He would give it to me when we go out. You're in charge, all right? Make sure you don't drink, all right?

He would tell me, don't drink. Stay focused. You're not out there to pick up girls or talk to girls. Don't lose focus on us, all right? So I'll be like, you know, the bodyguard of the crew. The only guy with the gun. So if something happens, everybody will be fucking running while I pull the out and start

shooting, yeah. And get everybody out of the door first. That was my responsibility. So you're kind of like you're basically Big Steve security. I was the crew security because not everybody carries. Yeah. And you're like 16, 17, 17. Underage. I was the crew security because not everybody carries. Yeah. And you're like 16, 17, 17. Underage. I was the youngest. Yeah. And, and I, I don't look too intimidated during that time.

I was still in an American stand. I was considered scrawny. Right. But I was able to conceal the gun. You know, that gun was fucking heavier than me. So besides that did you get back to like armed robberies and stuff too? no, elevated a little bit I started well I didn't really have a chance

it was just the beginning with Big Steve he had a drug run business that he was doing the day I was supposed to my turn to deliver the goods I was sleeping in a safe house in one of the club houses

I was with a girl I was sleeping in with a girl he came in he was like oh he was about to tell me that it was my turn so I really knew

once he opened the door I said oh I'll get dressed right away. I'll be ready in two minutes, right? He said, no, no, no, no, no, stay. He saw me with the girl. He said, stay. Don't worry.

I got this. You get the next one. And he went and he never came back. So after a few days later, we found out that he got locked up. Oh, he got locked up. He got locked up. He didn't get killed. No, he got locked up.

What did he get locked up for Oh, he got locked up. He got locked up. He didn't get killed. No, he got locked up. What did he get locked up for? Paralysis. Yeah. So the only person that we had to go to was the street boss, the boss of the gang, Robin, my boss. And we went there for asking for questions, and eventually he told us, yo,

this is what happened. Now, there was four of us. The other three didn't want to stay.

He said, we're done. We're going back to Brooklyn. They're leaving their life.

At 17, Robin asked me, you want to go or you want to stay? I have the obligation to ask you because Steve is my brother. 2017, Robin asked me, you want to go or you want to stay? All right.

I have the obligation to ask you because Steve is my brother. He's not around no more. For the time being, he's going to be away for a little bit. Now, you're under my protection. All right. You want to stay? You stay with me. Automatically, I said, yes, I'll stay with you.

But the other three went home. They didn't want to stay. And very at the beginning, he already took a liking to me. I was able, smart, and slick, you know. Good trades of a gangster. I was

witty. And even before he opened his mouth to give me command I'm like a good fucking lap dog I already know what he wants I read his mind and he took a liking to me

so I became his first errand boy and then eventually his right hand man and that's the head of the whole shebang how old was he? he's 10 years older than me. Oh, so he's not that old. He's young. We started really young.

But I wouldn't expect the boss of the whole damn thing to be like 27 or something. It's only a gang. But how many members were in the gang? At that time, in our faction, we were Bayard Street Ghost Shadow. We had different separate leaders. Oh, okay.

So he was the leader of that faction. He was the leader of the whole gang. He was the one that answers to the tongue. Okay. He was the first one, first Ghost Shadow boss to answer to the tongue. Other Ghost Shadows never answer to no fucking tongue. The tongue, you want to do business with me? We're equal.

Don't think that you're ruling us, okay? We don't work for you. We work with you. That's the ghost shadow mentality when my uncle and Nicky Louie and them, they started. But with him, somehow, he got connected with uh with uh with the tongue with the chan brothers um eddie chan no no no different channel different different chan yeah um not jackie no uh yeah i wish it was jackie shit jackie if you're listening i want to work for you right okay all right just throw me a couple

put that on the record just throw me a couple. Put that on the record. Just throw me a couple mil, all right? That'll work. You're a stuntman. A couple mil? All right, a couple mil. We'll split it up over here. I'm not greedy. But you become the head errand boy for this guy.

Head errand boy. Now, what kinds of things would he send you to do? Like basically protect his rackets, make sure people were paying, that kind of thing? Okay, so everybody has a position and has a job under him. There's a captain, a lieutenant that holds down the street soldiers. Some of them are going around collecting money for motor rackets. Some of them are positioned that will organize the soldiers to do protection for the gambling houses.

Because back then, during my time, the gambling houses were 24 hours. At all hours, because Atlanta City was booming, but it was pretty inconvenient to travel to Atlanta City back then. So they would get off of work in restaurants or garment business or whatever, and they would carry their cash, come down our street, and gamble. And they knew that when they gambled in our street,

our gambling establishment, nobody's going to rob you. You come in, you lose your money, we'll be able to provide you a loan. With interest, of course your money, we'll be able to provide you with a loan. All right? With interest, of course. Oh, yeah. Now, when you leave, we make sure you get on your freaking cab or whatever car you're driving. You're out of here safely. Nobody's going to fucking touch you within Alpha City.

We don't let people, we're not going to let, have you come in and gamble. If you lose, you're good to go. If you win, you can't take your money out. No, we want you to come back. We want a normal cycle. If things are going good, people can continue coming, thinking it's safe, and they can have fun. So certain people do that,

organize security, and only the very inner circle of the gang are able to deal with drugs. And all your places of operation are within Chinatown, effectively? Yes. You don't go anywhere else? Yes.

Okay. So, what was that? of operation are within Chinatown effectively. You don't go anywhere else. Yes. What was that? We do have a saying. We don't shit where we eat. Love that. I say that. How many times do I say that to you, Alessi? All the time. Gambling is a normal thing. It's like borderline gray area with the law.

Yes. With extortion and protection. The NYPD, they're not really going to fuck with you. Even if they do, they don't have the time. Even if they do have the time, people are not going to talk.

They're in my time. They're not going to talk. They think it's well-deserved money that they can have a peace of mind and nobody else will fuck with them. Let them operate their business. Now, what we don't do is that. We don't sell drugs on our corners. We don't bring drugs through our streets.

We'll make sure that we're clear that nobody deals or have exchanges in our fucking turf. And if you do, we'll be the cop. We're going to fucking confiscate your shit. We're going to take that shit. We're going to take shit from you. If it doesn't belong to us, we're going to take it. So that's how we operate.

We deal outside, outside of Chinatown. We don't bring the heat down to Chinatown. So if anything happens unfortunately outside of China, at least the media or police don't think it's gang related. It doesn't come back to Chinatown. Okay, so

there was a little bit of a work around there then. But then I broke that rule later on. Oh, you broke it and you operated within Chinatown? Yep, I started selling coke. When did that start? It started in 1989, 88, 89. Okay, so you're 18, 19. Mm-hmm.

What got you into that business? Robin, my boss. He used to do drugs too. He used to do coke too. I've been doing it also, but we get it cheap. We get good stuff. Because we have this, have you ever heard of the Green Dragon? They made this story.

The head of the Green Dragon, his name is Fook Chang Po. Po is his name. He's from Fook Chang province. He used to be a member Of the Fuching gang The Fuching gang was actually The same gang as Michael Moy My Michael

He was the Brooklyn faction So Fuzhou Paul And another member in the hierarchy member of the ruling party in Fook Ching broke off

and he formed his own gang. And they became the Green Dragon. And they were a bunch of killers. Some of them got triple life. Oh, shit. Yeah, they're fucking in ADX. And ADX Florence. Underground.

What do you mean underground? They're in fucking underground fucking jail. You don't see... I know all about ADX Florence. Wait, wait, wait. Where fucking Gotti was there. Oh, yeah. Okay, you don't have no contact or something like that, right?

Yeah. I don't know if Gotti was at that one, but there's... I mean, that's where they put... That's where the Unabomber is. That's where they put the most, or he just died, right, Ted Kaczynski? Yeah. Like, that's where they put the most serious people. They had that guy Robert Hanson there, the FBI turncoat.

Ross Ulrich is actually, was there for a while, which was really sad. But, okay, so they, these guys were. The Green Dragons, a couple, I think two of them were there. Now, were they associated with any foreign gangs from mainland? I'm not sure about that, but I know they were Green Dragons. The reason why is that they killed, in their story, in their indictment, I think they killed a couple of CIs and FBI CIs. It wasn't the Flying Dragons.

No. Green Dragons. Green Dragons. And they're operating in the same area you are? No, they were operating in Flushing, Queens. Oh, okay. Elmhurst, Flushing, Queens. They were outskirts.

They didn't really need a turf. Did you know any of those guys? Yeah, we know Fook, Chow, Paul and a few guys. Right, but did you know them well or you knew of them? We had good relations. Yeah, we know Fook Chow Po and a few guys Right, but did you know them well or you knew of them? We had good relations Yeah, we had good relations They come down the street We hang out

We chit chat We talk about things and we go drink together So you have to have really trustworthy relationship in order for you to drink Yeah, with guys like that I don't want them fucking whacking me

We're whacking them But we're at peace. So we're able to operate with each other. So separate businesses in separate areas, everyone's happy. Yeah. So Phuc Chau Po, we have a rumor that he came from South America. When he stuck himself in the country, he came to South America. Okay.

And rumor has it that, rumor, that's what I heard, that he has good ties, friends with Escobar's crew. Oh, shit. So he got some good shit coming up. Yeah, yeah, he's got that premium Colombian. Bro, I tasted myself. I tasted that fucking shit myself. That shit was good. When did you first do coke yourself? Before you went to Hong Kong?

17, 18. No, no. 17, 18. Yeah. You liked it. When I became a real... You started fucking around with coke. Yeah. That's when I started fucking around with coke. Yeah. That was the golden era of coke. It was a trend. At first I was like, ah, it's nothing. It gives me spidey senses. I don't get paranoid.

On coke? I see a lot of people get paranoid. I say, what the fuck are you scared of? If the cops are going to break in, they're going to break in. If they're going to fucking lock you, they're going to come again. It's done. I think that person across the street is watching. You're fucking hallucinating.

I'll smack him over that. I do coke. I'll be bar hopping, going to clubs, fucking with everybody, drinking, having a good time. And these fuckers are paranoid fucking shit guys. You stupid bitch. If you can't handle it, don't do it. That's what I always say. But I don't know why they keep on doing it if they can't handle it.

People get addicted. Some people I heard that they are on that shit and they fucking kill their own family member. I was like, what the fuck? It gives me spider senses. I can hear shit. I can sense if somebody's fucking walking near me or coming towards me. I can hear conversations

from far away and I'm not hallucinating but I don't have the hallucination that these people get and I have a good feeling about it lifts me up I get wired up you know but I get very agitated so what happens is I like

to be I'll be on my mode partying drinking with my friends but if somebody not from my original drinking buddies that I was drinking at that time comes over

and start bothering me acting a little bit stupid let's have let's cheers I'll have one one sip with you now you can walk away right

and if they if they kept on coming back I say yo second time don't make it a dirt time alright you know I'm not gonna be happy right

I'll crack the fucking bottle over the head and I'm not gonna be happy right I'll crack the fucking bottle over the head and I'll fucking start fucking I'll fucking stick him with the goddamn broken end in the face

or whatever I'll say I told you that the fuck would be now it's all your fucking fault I had to come over a three third time you had to do it

you had to make me fucking angry while he's lying on the fucking floor scrambling fucking covering his face why'd you do it everybody's. Why'd you do it? Everybody's like, oh, why'd you do it?

No, he fucking did it. He fucking did it. He said, what, he stabbed himself? No, he made me fucking stab him. Should have fucking left me alone. So between doing a lot of coke, which is making you madder, and also just generally becoming a harder and harder gangster, shit just happened. It derailed me from my original reason of going out to become a gangster.

I heard rumors that it's in business of information that my father was killed by the hip-sing and the flying dragon side. The what? The hip-sing tongue. Okay. And the flying dragon side. So I joined the opposite

The On Leong and the Gold Shadow Which was Oh Okay So there's It's split There's two Two tongs

That is the The oldest and And the largest in In America Chinese tongs I'm talking about It's the On Leong Tong That's right at the corner of Canal and Mott Street.

Okay. Okay, that old looking building. And right on Pell Street, probably like around a block and a half away. They call it Hip Sing Tong. If you ever heard of the old hatchet gang, those are the two frigging tongs that were chopping each other up with frigging hatchets.

It's been, what, ever since the railroad times, the gold digging times. That's when they started the association. So the Flying Dragons worked for the hip-sync, that side, hip-sync tong, and the gold shadows with the on-the-arm. So automatically I went to the gold shadow to try to find out what's going on with the hip sink side. And see if it's true. If it's true. When was this?

When I joined the gang or when I found out? No, no, when you found out. I've been hearing it ever since I came back from America at the age of 13. So in the beginning when my father passed away, when he got gunned down, Kit Zai, Peter Chin, the gold shadow, he was the person

that was protecting us and he had good relations with my father. I'll tell you what my father asked him to do. Ask him for a favor before he died. He was at war with a lot of factions, different factions of gangs.

And Chinatown was a mess during that time. So a lot of people were bothering my mother and my family, claiming that my father owed them money when he was alive and we need to pay up. Harassing my mom. And because Peter Chin was at war, he no longer was able to protect us. So he asked my mom, why don't you take the kids back to Hong Kong and lay low for a couple years.

And when things die down, then you can come back. But right now, I can't take care of you guys because Chinatown's a fucking mess. Got it. They just broke off with the Gold Shadow and the White Tigers broke off. Members of the Gold Shadow broke off

and formed the White Tiger Gang. What year are we talking with that? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Okay. But if you ever ask Michael, he has the full detail because he talks to my uncle all the time. So they both have a book coming out. I don't have that luxury.

I think you need one. I'd read it. My story is not too compelling. I disagree. We're like an hour and a half in. It's pretty compelling. My uncle's story is very compelling. Why do. We're like an hour and a half in. It's pretty compelling. My uncle's story is very compelling. Why do you say that? Why do you say his is more compelling?

He has a very, very sad upbringing. Abusive father. Very abusive. Was it here? And he joined a gang at the age of 11, 12. Banded with friends, with Nicky Lou in them.

I'm not going to go into detail, but his book is coming out. His story is coming out soon. When my father passed away, I was so angry I forgot to cry. I never shed a tear. But when he told me that story, how he grew up, and the shit that his household would go and do, that what made him freaking go out, run away from home at that age,

got kicked out of the house at nine years old. Nine years old. And then at 11, eventually he freaking ran away. It was heartbroken to tell me about his mom, was abusive husband and everything. And the things that him and his sisters were going through, tell me about his mom, was abusive husband and everything. And the things that him and his sisters were going through, it fucking made me cry like a bitch.

You know, tears were running down my face. I was, damn, that shit. I mean, I thought my fucking life was fucked up. You, your life was terrible. And that's what created a hardcore freaking gangster like him. And did he end up going down with the Rico? He did 20-something years. Whoa.

Yeah, he had a lot of time. I actually ran into him in jail. Yeah. All right, we'll get there. But I got you off where you were talking about the Flying Dragons. And I think, what was it, White Tiger too? The White Tiger, okay. The Ghost Shadow members got into separation.

Some members, okay. So they broke off and formed a new gang, White Tiger Gang. And they were at war during that time too. And they were at war with other. The Ghost Shadow were at war with other Gold Shadow was at war with other what you call it gangs now everybody wanted our turf

Mott Street and Bayoff Street is the most lucrative part of Chatham why is that? why is that? all the gambling houses, all the big money all the famous, all the big money, all the famous restaurants, all the nice bars and all that were located there.

All right. The most densely operated Mahjong parlors. You know, Mahjong, you know, probably one table freaking 13 card games, Pai Dao, all those Chinese gambling games. And it was the safest place. So it brought in a lot of money. And everybody was eyeing it.

So they wanted a piece. They wanted a piece. Because there's not, you know, you're thinking about this, it's not like that big of an area it's not like you're talking about miles of land and shit there's basically like a few streets and it's just loaded up with different businesses and illegal businesses and it's a few different gangs competing within the same

zip code if you will yeah, but they did a calculation I'm not really sure about the real actual figure, but I believe it's around 100 to 200,000 of extortion money

and protection money from those two little blocks a month. I was going to say a month. We're talking about back in the 70s. Yeah, that's pretty good money. That's good money.

We're talking about a month. That's good money. We're talking about a month. That's good money. And then other stuff that they do, loan shocking, operating outside of other shady dealings outside of China. We're talking about stable income. Every month, 100 to 200 grand coming in. That's pretty good. So now there's some gang disagreements and some muscling in.

What does that look like? It looks like fucking shootout every day. Yeah. Yeah, it's like once the night falls, all you hear is, if you ever heard of a place called the Junction in Brooklyn, that's where the Jamaicans and the Haitians live, and they fucking hate each other. At night, all you hear, because I have a cousin that lives there, all you hear is fucking gunfire, pa-pa-pa-pa-pa, pa-pa-pa-pa-pa, all night long,

and then fucking the sirens. And then it stops for a while, and then it starts pa-pa-pa-pa-pa again Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa. All night long and then fucking the sirens. And then it stops for a little while and then it starts pa-pa-pa-pa-pa again and then the sirens. Damn. Same shit was happening.

It was like a fucking war zone during that time. Did you lose some of your friends? I didn't. I'm talking about that was the era where in the early 80s.

Okay, so just before your time. Yes. Okay. Okay, now getting to my friends in 88, 89, end of Now, getting to my friends, in 88, 89, end of 89, I lost two friends

at Winnie's Bar shooting. Can we pull up Winnie's Bar? So, during that era, there was a gang that formed, Vietnamese gang, BTK. Want to kill? Yeah. Yeah, I've heard of them. Yeah.

They were fucking stupid ones, but they had balls. BTK wanna kill yeah yeah I've heard of them yeah they're they were fucking stupid ones but they had balls they challenged the cops they fucking they were hungry desperate yeah

yeah we sorry we have the story on this man let's just hold it up from February 9th 1990 two gang members slain in Chinatown restaurant.

Yep, at Winnie's Bar. Yeah. Right across the street from Columbus Park. And that was BTK who did this? BTK, yep. Were you there? No, I was there earlier. I was there earlier that evening.

And then I was like, you know what? It's fucking cold out there. I'm going to call a girl. We're going to go smoke some weed and fucking just shack up. And I was out of Chinatown that night. But then like 4 or 5 o'clock in the morning, my pager starts going off. I said, what the fuck, you know?

And, you know, we used to, the pager used to have the signals, you know, the 911 signals. You know, when you do 611 or that type of, you know, the 911 signals. You know, we do 611, all that type of, you know, secret coding. So I had a familiar number calling me with 911 in the back as a code. So I called back and said, and they, and one of the guys that was on the street

told me that, you know, Duck Singh and Kung Zai went down. I said, what went down? They got shot. They got killed. They're dead. And these were two of your close friends? Yes. Did you grow up with them?

He-Man, the tall guy that died, we call him Kongzai in Chinese. But his English name is He-Man. Because he loved He-Man and the Masters of the Universe. You ever see He-Man? No, I don't think so. It's a fucking bulky ass stupid with Skeletor, you know? That was our cartoon, all right? Got it, got it.

So we called him He-Man, and we went to school together. So we joined a gang together, and we live in the same neighborhood. When you spend every day with each other, night and day, you're closer than your blood brothers. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Out there in the street, we watch each other's back,

like the relationship that me and Mike have. Did you regret you weren't there? I would say yes. I'm pretty sure I would have reacted faster than them. I would have expected what was coming. But they didn't expect anything. Of course they did. They should have when I found out what the fuck happened.

Why did BTK hit them? They beat up while they were on vault, walking down to Winnie's Bar. They ran into two fucking Vietnamese kids. Innocent fucking. I wouldn't say innocent, but they weren't bothering anybody.

They were just passing by. They fucking stopped them and beat the shit out of them. Oh, your guys did. For no reason. Yeah. All right. We weren't at war with them at that time. We weren't really at war with them.

Yeah. Why would you, you know, start something, stop bullshit? Let them come. If they're not starting trouble, let them walk by, you know, let them go. They got their ass whooped and they went back and grabbed a gun and came back and fucking shot him up. Should have went to drink, go to a bar where you're known to hang out. Yeah. bar where you're known to hang out. They just

didn't have that type of sense that fucking is common sense. You beat up somebody, you still go to the bar? Fuck that. I'm not staying here. You're not going to find me. Did this spark any sort of gang war with BTK?

Yeah, it did. Yeah, it did. Did you want blood because of that? I was sad, but then I was too busy fucking smoking up at that time. I was smoking weed.

I was chasing girls, you know. I had a... I mean, I was sad. I wanted to. I don't know what to do. And then all of a sudden, I was so smoked up one day,

I got dragged into a fucking armed robbery with my friends. How does that happen? They just came by and said, let's go? No, I'm smoking up and they came by and said, yo. Whose car are we taking? Yeah, I said, yo, where are we going?

I was bored. Yeah. You're always finding. Yeah, when I'm bored, I try to arm robbery too. You know, when you're young, you're always looking to find something stupid to do. Right. I was playing with my gun, you know. And they said, yo, how many guns you got?

I got two right here, motherfucker, right? And me and my best friend in the gang, Tony, right? He's like, yo, we're smoking up. What are you guys going to do? We're going to go club? We're going to do something? We're going to go hurt somebody? He's going to rob a fucking bank.

And this fucking guy came over. Yo, I know a place that we could get a lot of money. I said, for real? Walk in the park? Okay. I said, where? They said,

West 4, massage parlor. Korean massage parlor, second floor. I said, I've been there before. I was so fucking high. I said, I've been there before. I said,

that was stupid, right? I was fucking totally out of it. I was stoned. I was here. I remember that fucking high. I've been there before. That was stupid, right? I was fucking totally out of it. I was stoned, but I was here. I remember that happy ending. Yeah. And then they all said, oh, okay, we got a car. We're going to go and rob the fucking place. They should be like well over fucking 50, 60 grand in there.

All right? Easy cash. We just walk in and walk out. I said, really? Okay, let's go. And I'm fucking stupid enough to go. And fucking got locked into there. It was the second floor.

The cops around the whole fucking block. Oh, shit. You got caught in the act. In the act. Is this what sent you to prison? 18 months. The first time. Okay.

Okay. So you get caught. You only got 18 months for an armed robbery? Shit. Fucking talked my way down. That's only got 18 months for an armed robbery? Shit. Fucking talked my way down. That's not too bad. Who was your lawyer? Ben Brafman?

No, I used public... They tried to hire me. They tried to hire me a fucking lawyer, right? And it cost us five grand. I said, get the fuck out of here. Five grand, what are you going to do? Let me talk to the judge. So I said, you know, you're fired.

And then the court appointed me a fucking public defender. I said, damn, these guys are fucking good. They really tried to get me off, right? This young kid, this and that, you know. What did he say? You were just there looking for a massage? Nah, they know. We were caught in an act, you know, so there was no denying.

You had the gun on you, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I put it on the floor and I I sat on the fucking sofa you know the massage yeah yeah like this yeah I was like this and they came and grabbed me you know

they came and grabbed I was high as fuck I was like shit I don't even know what the fuck was going on when I got locked up to the precinct I slept through

that whole fucking process when they fucking shipped when they shipped me to central booking I was still sleeping throughout the whole until I saw the judge I was like whatever you know I can't wait to get a fucking bed you know sent me to central booking, I was still sleeping. Until I saw the judge, I was like, whatever.

I can't wait to get a fucking bed. They sent me to fucking Rikers, and I was sleeping in Rikers for two days. Oh, you were in Rikers. Yeah, for two days. And I never came out until 18 months later. Wait, you stayed in Rikers that whole time? Stayed in Rikers, and then they sent me upstate. Had to do the shaving, the spray down, and everything.

Okay, wait a second. So they sent you to Rikers for two days. They bring you back to court. You fire your public second. So, you fire, they send you to Rikers for two days, they bring you back to court, you fire your public defender, is that when that happens? I fired the, the, the,

what do you call it? The private, the, Yeah, yeah, the private. You get the public guy. Get the public guy two months later and then, you know,

they start talking about a deal, a deal, you know, and I said, what's the deal? He said, 18 months. Take that deal. I was like, fuck it.

But I didn't know 18 months to, it's one and a half to three, or four and a half. Oh, because it, oh, it has to. It's one third, but it's conditional release on two thirds. Yeah, so you had to behave yourself, basically.

I had to behave myself for 18 months. Where'd they send you, Sing Sing? First they sent me to fucking Elmira. Where? Elmira. Elmira. Am I hearing that wrong? Oh, Elmira.

Elmira. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, my Chinese. No, it's all good. The accent was there. All right. So it was upstate New York. Spent some time there.

And then eventually. How was that? Good stay? It's okay. Proper amenities? A lot of fucking rats and mice is around. spend some time there and then eventually how was that good stay it's okay proper amenities a lot of fucking rats and mice

around oh like the animal not the human no no yeah yeah yo it's fucking infested right

yeah at night I gotta fucking hang my camera so we can fucking high up in the gate they know how to fucking climb did you have other

gang members in there with you like from your gangs? Yeah, me and Tony's younger brother, we did Tao time all together. And he was in the same event as you, the same arm rubber? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But he wasn't high. It was just me and Tony who was high. Right. You were the one surprised when you woke up. Like, what did we do? Okay, we did it. Okay, fine. So you guys stick together in prison?

Because you're a minority in prison no nobody really fuck with us yeah um you know they had that freaking rumor

about the those two brothers in Rikers so that that paved the way that nobody would fuck with the Chinese oh

you heard that story right you guys yeah what was the rumor about the two uh kung fu fighting motherfuckers

that beat that beat the two kung fu fighting motherfuckers. Everybody was kung fu fighting. They beat the shit out of fucking the turtle squad. The turtle squad? The Ninja Turtle Squad. The Ninja Turtle Squad. Is this like Asian lingo? There's a riot squad in Rikers Island.

They call the Ninja Turtle. Because they have their fucking protective gear, their helmet, and they have their fucking baton. They look like fucking Ninja Turtles. So they said you guys karate'd the fuck out of them? So they said that these two guys, two brothers, when they, well, back in the days, they beat the fuck out of the Riot Squad. Two guys beat the fuck out of the Riot Squad. With their bare hands. With their bare hands. With their bare hands. And eventually, you know, that's the kickstart of the rumor

that Chinese are not, you know, everybody's a fucking Bruce Lee kind of, yeah. The two of you were like sitting in the yard in Elmira

and like dudes are like talking at the bench over there like pointing and you're like, yeah. They were just curious that,

yo, oh shit, oh Asian guy, you know. It was a variety back then, you know. Yeah,

fucking, it was like, what the what are you doing here? Yeah, what the fuck are you doing here? You're fucking Chinese. You're supposed to run a bank. Aren't you supposed to be a goody two-shoe or something like that? So what was it? Actually, this is a question I should have asked earlier.

I totally forgot about this. What was the setup racially, though? Did you guys also have members who members who were like from Taiwan obviously you had members from Hong Kong you're from Hong Kong and then mainland China was there any separation there or like among the among the the gang was it all you're focused from maybe Hong Kong no we accept anybody anybody anybody that's. Even Nam? If they're loyal. If they prove themselves. We don't care.

You're Asian. You're one of us. So if the eyes look similar, you're in. Yeah. But the main thing is the language. You have to speak Cantonese. Well, if I'm Vietnamese, I probably don't speak Cantonese. Vietnamese, some Vietnamese do.

Really? Yes. God, they're so smart. Yes, the reason why is the family, it's the family history. What do you mean the family history? Well, their grandfather was probably from China. They fought the fucking Civil War

and they fucking square him over there. They escaped to Vietnam and Vietnam was a safe haven back then. What about Koreans? Any of them speak Cantonese? No, no, no. Koreans fuck with the Japs. Vietnam was a safe haven back then. What about Koreans? Any of them speak Cantonese? No. Okay, so you didn't fuck with Koreans. Koreans fuck with the Japs. Oh, you didn't fuck with the Japanese at all?

We grew up not like... Disagreement over culinary instincts? No, it's about fucking World War II. Yeah, that was recent history. I read a lot of history. I want to learn about my own culture and what happened while I was in jail. Got nothing better to do. I was doing Fed Time.

I did a couple of stabbings, and I spent a lot of time in the hole, segregation. You did a couple of stabbings? Wait, you skipped over that one, really. But that's later on. I did a couple of stabbings and ended up in segregation. So I had a lot of time in my head. That's during the 18 months?

No, no, that's... It fed time. Oh, that's what... Okay, okay, all right. Well, let's come back to the 18 months part. Now, with the history that, you know,

that's what happened. What were we talking about? That part. We were talking about how you didn't fuck with the Japanese. Yeah, the Japanese. Okay.

The Nanking Massacre. Yes. Okay. Can you pull that up, Alessio? Yes. That shit's crazy. Now, the Japanese. Okay. The Nanking Massacre. Yes. Okay. Can you pull that up, Alessio? Yes. That shit's crazy. Now, during World War II, not only there were 6 million Jews that was killed during World War II by the Nazis.

Yeah. Exterminated. Mm-hmm. Don't forget the Japanese are the ex-partners. Yes, yes. Absolutely. Now, my thoughts were thinking about why the fuck they had to do it.

You see the big, I'm not being a conspiracy theorist. No, no, this is real. You see all these big fucking pharmaceutical companies nowadays? You know, Japanese. Oh, that's not where I thought you were going. This is where I'm going.

They tested on the fucking Jews. That's why the German, the big fucking, you understand what I'm saying, right? That's what created the pharmaceutical companies today. Some of them, yeah. Some of them.

A lot of them, I believe. The Japanese did the same fucking shit. They did, what was, so they, they did bio-warfare. Yes, we just pulled up the Nanjing massacre. But there was a,

I'm forgetting the term, there was a place that they sent people for testing. What the fuck was this called? You know what I'm talking about? I know what you're talking about. But I don't know the geographic of it. Can you... Alessi, can you type into Google

Japanese... World War II WW2 Japanese WW2 Prisoner Experiments World War II, WWII, Japanese WWII, prisoner experiments. What was this called? Unit 731? Yes, yes, hit that, hit that, hit that. for Manchu Detachment 731, also known as the Kamu Detachment and the Isshu Unit, was a covert biological and chemical warfare research

and development unit of the Imperial Japanese Army that engaged in lethal human experimentation and biological weapons manufacturing during the Second Sino-Japanese War, 1937-1945, and World War II. It killed an estimated 200,000 to 300,000 people. It was

based in the Pingfangang district of harbin the largest city in japanese puppet state of manchukuo or now northeast china and had active branch offices throughout china and southeast asia so they were using prisoners of war many of whom were chinese and they were killing and koreans and koreans correct okay now they low balling the fucking numbers oh I believe that this is the western part western media or information I also read

the Chinese part I was able to learn reading Chinese a little bit while I was in college oh so you didn't read it previously not previously

I read it back then okay I learned about it that the numbers are way bigger than that. It was close, a couple of millions too. Wow. Now, also, they were testing crystal meth.

They were using it on soldiers, but using it on human experiment. They use it for soldiers to fight the war because they have no fucking feeling to become zombies. Yeah. And they're still the biggest fucking supplier. But actually they pass it on to the Yakuza controls the fucking the Korean gangs.

The Korean organized They do? Today? I don't know about today, but back then they did. They kick-started the Korean... You're talking about the Korean in mainland Korea mainland Korea where they not Korean

US games you know back in my time all the crystal meth came from Hawaii really? well it was shipped through Hawaii

interesting from Korea oh shit they were sending it from Korea to Hawaii Hawaii has a big fucking population

of Koreans didn't know that you know what no they were From Korea to Hawaii. Hawaii has a big fucking population of Koreans. Didn't know that. You didn't know that? No. They were to California and California to the East Coast. No shit. Crystal meth.

Whoa. Yeah, this was, that name, Unit 731, sounds familiar. I want to say there was another one, too, I was looking at. Either way, the point remains. Like, they were doing this. Yeah. Like, crazy. And there's, that's a forgotten part of history the the china japan aspect of world war two yes people don't talk about that a lot but the thing about is that chinese don't cry about it

it is what it is it happened right right uh if if there's a time of the day in the future that we could get our you know revenge back we'll get it yeah we'll fucking get it we'll stop our fucking footing up up your ass you know yeah for the time being the time being we don't fuck with you guys so you would not let any of them in your crew no japanese that's what number one i will i will like vietnamese can't be trusted if they don't speak my language. They're kind of very shady. They act without rules, without boundaries.

The Vietnamese. They don't understand the culture. Why? Why do you think that is? We need to have a proper manner in China so we don't draw attention to us. Not a fucking just like

Flashy, like that kind of thing? Fucking bombing a goddamn police patrol car. Right, yeah, that's not good. Starting war with fucking the 5th Precinct. Yeah, that's not good. That's not good, you know. Starting fucking trouble with all the gangs, with all the fucking Asian gangs banded together

and wanted to fucking eliminate them. We're the only one that didn't nah you go partnership whatever we take our own we do our own you know

that was it you know but during those 18 months you studied a lot of history not just that 18 months

afterwards in what you call till remember I did some school in Hong Kong when I was 15.

Right. I was forced to learn Chinese. Yeah. So I read about that stuff and they were teaching about it. That was a big fucking topic in history in Hong Kong. Oh, yeah. How bad? Because Hong Kong was occupied under occupation for what?

I believe three years or something, three years and eight months. Back then. Back then. And they killed a lot of people too. Oh, yeah. They wiped out half the population in Hong Kong when the British fucking withdraw back to Australia.

Whoa. MacArthur was there, you know? Yeah. And they all went to the British, freaking went to India. And eventually India was fucking, they were fighting over there too. So they had to go all the way back down to Australia. Whoa. And they mounted a massive attack later on with the Americans.

Yeah. Now you get out of prison after 18 months. You're still on like 21, 22, right? I was on parole, state parole. Okay, but you go right back to Chinatown. Not really. No. My god sister, Mona, right, she dragged me out.

She had a telecommunication company, a people store. And, you know, when they had the big, you know, the, what do they call it? The 8,000 freaking Motorola. Yeah. The big fucking cell phone.

So, she had a store and she said, I need some people to work. Why don't you come and work for me? She, she wasn't paying me much,

but at least, you know, she got me off the streets. Did you, were you back living with your mom at this point? Did your mom visit you when you were in prison? I told her not to visit. I wouldn't tell her where I was.

Oh, you didn't tell her you were in prison? No, I told her I was in prison, but you don't have to come and see me. I said, I'll be home soon. Okay. What did she think? She said, yeah, she said she's fine. Did she know you were running in that life at that point? This is how my mom thinks.

You're in prison. At least you're fucking safe in there. I don't have to worry about you in the street. I have to open, every morning I open up the fucking newspaper, not knowing where you are the previous night, not knowing if I open the pages and I see your fucking mugshot there, dead or whatever. So she knew you were heavily involved in that life before you went

there she knew she knew got it okay so you were saying you were saying it was your sister god sister god sister she tried to get me out of it so she has the she has the mobile telephone store mobile store yeah yeah um but i didn't want to stay there i i so I went back down the street I saw Robin I said Robin I'm coming back he said alright welcome back right had you had

I think I asked this earlier but we might have got off it did you have an official induction ceremony again with the with Ghost Shadows didn't need to

didn't need to he just accepted me ok the thing about it is that they're not as organized over here we're not as organized as here. We're not as organized as the Triad. And besides, you know, it's hard to get a fucking mold in our organization, in the gang.

It's not like you could just, you know, you're in a fucking police academy and all of a sudden the instructors say, oh, you look like a fucking good undercover, you undercover. We're going to put you on a project. No, you can't do that here. We grew up with each other. Everybody knows each other since we were fucking 13, 14. How the fuck are you going to penetrate 13, 14? You start police academy undercover training from then? So it was pretty impossible to penetrate as an agent or undercover police with us.

Now, the only way that they could fucking get us was if somebody gets locked up and threatened them with an asshole full of time. Yeah, then they rat. You want to turn CI, motherfucker? I'll give you this. You'll be on the payroll, too. That's how they penetrate through. But we trusted each other until later on.

When I came home from the 18 months, there was actually another person that joined while I was away. His name was David. Fat, chubby little fucking kid. Looks nothing like a gangster. Looks like a fucking nerd.

Somebody that you will fucking hate because he nothing like a gangster. Looks like a fucking nerd. Somebody that you will fucking hate because he looks like a nerd, but he has those fucking devious, fucking mischievous eyes that is always calculating people. I was like, this motherfucker is evil. First time I met him, I didn't like him. His ass kissing skillissing skill,

kissing ass, was pretty high level. Got Robin and his girlfriend during that time. Catered to their needs. Were you jealous of him? I wasn't jealous. I was more very suspicious

of this fucking guy. This motherfucker don't look right. He wasn't jealous. I was more fucking like, you know, very suspicious of this fucking guy, right? This motherfucker don't look right. You know, he don't act right. He wasn't a rat in the beginning, but my suspicion wasn't all to war too. He was able, he's very manipulative. All right.

More manipulative than I am. As a non-street guy that looks fucking nerdy and don't look like a fucking gangster, he's pretty fucking good. I'll give him that. In order to become a CI, a fucking rat, he's like fucking high-level intelligence, this guy. He was able to manipulate the gang because he was right next to my boss. He elected this girl named Lily that didn't like him because of the way he looked. That was not the image for ideal boyfriend during that time.

Had to be the bad boy type. So my other friend, we call Gu Ye Zai. Same name as me, Kenny Wong. But he was little Kenny Wong. I was the big Kenny Wong. So Lily liked Kenny Wong because he was little Kenny Wong. I was the big Kenny Wong. So Lily liked it, Kenny Wong, because he was a handsome boy. And he started dating. So in Fat David's mind, that fucking guy took my girl for me.

He didn't fucking thought that, yo, you don't have what it makes to fucking have that girl. She's out of your league. And for me, being really good friends with Kenny, the other Kenny, little Kenny, I protected him. I said, yo, fuck you. That's my brother. You ain't shit. So he hated me too. Now, during that course of time, that's where it all kick-started,

where he had the fucking hatred for me and him and started manipulating my boss and his girlfriend, you know, and, you know, try to, like, you know, separate us a little bit. He did a fucking, he went into drug dealing. He sold a fucking brick to heroin to an undercover. It got caught. And he fucking turned. So you guys didn't know that happened, obviously.

I didn't even know he was able to fucking deal. This guy don't even look like a fucking gangster. Who the fuck would believe him that you got heroin? You've got to have a certain type of look back then. And the way you talk with people, that they, you have street credibility. He doesn't have any of that.

But he dealt, and he sold to a fucking undercover. During that time, our gang fucking hired him a lawyer, this and that. It was a pretty, the lawyer's name was, I still remember, his name was Margaret. Wait, the gang hired him a lawyer, this and that. It was a pretty, the lawyer's name was, I still remember his name is Margaret. Wait, the gang hired him a lawyer, so they knew

it happened. You didn't know, but they knew it happened. Margaret didn't know. Our lawyer didn't know in the beginning. But the gang hired him a lawyer. Yes. And so at some point, he makes a deal with the government, and the lawyer obviously doesn't tell the gang. No. Well, the lawyer can't tell the gang also because of, know it'll break the what client right but you know yeah does that

really exist when the gang's hiring it i don't know how that worked i don't even i wasn't even uh mixed into that dynamic of that situation okay eventually he turned cold um me and he was manipulative enough that me and Robin kind of like got into a fucking argument. Big argument. And I said, you know what? You're such a fucking hothead. Why don't you get, that's what Robin told me.

Why don't you get the fuck off the street for a little bit. Lay low, all right? Go back home, all right? And I said to Robin, fuck you and fuck the whole fucking street, all right? You motherfuckers are gonna call me back, all fuck the whole fucking street, all right? You motherfuckers are going to call me back. You need me, all right? So I left.

Me and my other boys hanging out in Brooklyn, Cropsey Park, playing handball. Sometimes I'm in Flushing playing Mahjong with other retired ghost shadows that came out of jail. Retired? Retired, yeah. So they left alive. They left alive. They did their time. They were the original crew from back in 84. They did their time. They came back, you know. And they stay away from it. They they left the life. They left the life. They did their time. They were the original crew from back in 84.

They did their time. They came back, you know. And they stay away from it. They stay away from it. They're doing other stuff, you know. I'm not saying what they're doing. They're still not right. But they weren't.

They're better citizens. Yes. They became. Maybe they're running a card game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Doesn't hurt anybody. Some small stuff, you know. Got it.

So I start hanging around with them. I was still around. But somehow this motherfucker stopped manipulating and told everybody I was the fucking CI. Oh. It was so convenient

because I wasn't around. Oh, it's like Matt Damon in The Departed. So the word got up to fucking to Ani on the tongue. And the tongue wanted to take me out. And I heard about it. Take me out, motherfucker Tongs want to take me out. And I heard about it. Take me out, motherfucker. You want to take

me out? Me and Tony and a couple guys, I fucking strapped and walked down the street. Who the fuck? I was walking down the street. Who the fuck wants to take me out? Come and get it. Come and get it now. In Chinatown. Does a CIA look like that? Carrying a fucking gun, walking around the street.

Who the fuck wants to take me out? Come and get me. Will a CIA ever fucking do that? I don't know. Would they? That's some stupid shit. They would never fucking do that. He don't got the balls because he don't want to get exposed. You don't want any fucking chance of getting exposed. I know that type of mentality.

I was thinking over my mind all these fucking years about how the fuck he was thinking. You know, the psychology behind it. And then one day, the truth came out. When is this?

When is this? It was the day when I was playing Mahjong with this... Yeah, but like, what year are we in? 1992. Okay.

92, I believe. We already know that we were being investigated. But I never had any dealings with the feds, the FBI. I thought it was like NYPD. They're fucking fuck-offs. They don't mean shit to me. Now I know how powerful these guys are.

These guys can do wonders. You have no idea. Fucking FBI's are fucking dirty. They give you enough. Yo, they're fucking dirty tactics, all right? They can get to you. How so? This fucking kid had a fucking wire.

He's so fucking fat and clumsy. He was up in the clubhouse, and he fucking dropped it by accident. And he saw it? No, I wasn't there. Everybody else was there. They saw it on the floor. there everybody else was there they saw it on the floor everybody was dumbfounded

what the fuck was that and all of a sudden not even fucking 20 25 seconds the fucking feds bum rushing fucking broke the door down

grabbed him and snatched him and took him away 30 seconds so you know how close they were they were probably next door they were right there yeah they were right next door. They were right there, yeah. They were right next door.

Do you think because they make people wear wires, they play dirty? That's the day when Marvin realized that he was wrong about me. He gave me a fucking emergency beep while I was playing Mahjong with the other freaking people up in Flushing.

And this guy he's an ex-co-shadow he did time he came out he's an ex-co-shadow his name is Peter Hom we call him the flying horse

Fema so he kept on saying who's who's fucking page answer the fucking page call him back so he

don't bother you I said Robin's fucking calling me he said oh that's your dialogue why don't you call him back I said fuck him fuck him fuck everybody. He said, oh, that's your dialogue. Why don't you call him back? I said, fuck him.

Fuck him. Fuck everybody, right? I'm too busy. And he said, give me that page. I'll call him for you, right? He said, yo, it's 911. I think something's serious. He said, why don't you just give him a call?

So I called him back. And he said, something happened in Chinatown. Don't come down. Something very big. Stay away. All right? For your own good. Then got in contact with Tony. I very big. Stay away. For your own good. Then I got in contact with Tony. I called Tony, my best

friend in the gang. We talked. They said, okay, I'm coming to meet you. Go back to Brooklyn where we live around that area. And he told me, listen, he told me the whole story about the fucking recording device dropping and everything. He said, yo, shit is fucked up down in the street now.

The feds are going to come for us. He said, stay away. Now, nobody in the fucking gang knew what I did. I only worked for one person, for Robin. So I thought I was safe. As long as Robin's not, you know. You thought you were insulated. Yeah, I was insulated.

You got to go through Robin before you go through me. I only did whatever I did for Robin, you know, nobody else. And he's the head of the gang, right? So during that time, it was probably 92, 93, I was dating a Japanese girl. You were dating a Japanese girl? Japanese girl, yeah. All right, hold on a moment. I got to go to the bathroom real fast and then we'll come right back. But that was quite a Japanese girl. You were dating a Japanese girl? A Japanese girl, yeah. All right, hold on a moment. I got to go to the bathroom real fast,

and then we'll come right back. But that was quite a twist right there. Revenge, revenge. Okay, so you were getting revenge for World War II with a Japanese girlfriend. Please do explain this. Okay, well, in the beginning, I was like, oh, a Japanese girl.

All right, never had it before. I've had the mainland now give me the island I've dated I've dated quite a few girls my time different ethnic background

you know what was your favorite Korean Korean why Korean they're so submissive they're like they

I don't know about holidays but back then shit holidays with the K-pop thing you know they're like they I don't know about holidays but back then they were shit holidays with the K-pop thing you know they're probably pretty fucking bossy

you know but back then they were like fucking they were answered if you will they'd do anything for you

they would provide you with money you know they would give you they were like sugar mamas yeah they were sugar mamas

as long as you you know you satisfy their heart and body you know yeah where, they give you money. They were like sugar mamas. Yeah, they were sugar mamas. As long as you get, you know, you satisfy their heart and body, you know. Yeah, where were they getting this money? Happy ending shops? Yeah.

Yeah, a lot of them. No, but some of them were, they come from rich families. Yeah. I dated a few Korean girls that were, excuse me, rich families

that have a good Christian upbringing. Well, you changed that. I met them at church. You met them at church? You were going to church this whole time? Yeah, because I have Korean friends. You know where we could get beautiful girls?

At fucking church. I was like, oh shit. That's where we got to go. Listen, sorry to all the listeners out there. As a heterosexual, I'm going for it. Whatever the fuck it takes. I'm going for it. In this day and age, I don't know about everybody else.

More for me. It's fine. Oh, my God. But I'm going for it. Okay. Don't tell me you never fucking met a girl in church. I've never met a girl in church. You can't get out of here.

I don't go to church. Okay. Now you do, okay? But it has to be the Korean ones. Okay. Yeah. And I never had a Japanese before. Where'd you meet her?

I met her. She's roaming around. She roams around. She belonged to a cool girl called Black Shadow Girls. Of course she did. God damn it. I was like, damn, I would like to try it. I didn't think about

venturing at that time. When I had her, I was like, yeah, you know what? Time to show them Chinese is wordy. Let them know Chinese is wordy. Eventually, shit happens. We fell in love. I wanted to marry her.

Things were getting close. I was like, shit. Things I hear from other people, from other friends, it's not going well for you. If Robin, Robin's on the run right now, you're still safe. So Robin was on the run, and he wasn't locked up. The feds don't have him.

So for the time being, I'm safe. As long as he's out of the fucking country, the feds will never fucking come for me. For some reason, I was heavy on fucking coke during that time. Very heavy. Because all the fucking anxiety of what's happening in Chinatown. Maybe I wasn't ready for marriage. Everything was going good, but when something's too good, you want to sabotage it. And that's what I did. I sabotaged my own fucking relationship,

went back down to Chinatown, and me and Tony talked about it, said, you know what? I think they're going to come for us. Why don't we try to leave, leave the country? I said, where the fuck am I going to come for us. Why don't we try to leave the country? I said, where the fuck am I going to go? You got like two warrants for your arrest in Hong Kong.

Let's go back to China. So during that time, there's a lady named Snakehead. The human smugglers. Sister Ping. Sister Ping. Yes. Not ringing a bell. Let's pull up Sister Ping.

Yeah. What a name. Imagine going through life with that. That's some gangster shit. Yep. Oh, there she is. There she is. Chang Chui.

I'm going to fuck that up. So I know her to other friends that work for her. Okay. So she was a human trafficker. She got a lot of fucking container ships that's under her. Okay, so she was a human trafficker. Mm-hmm. She got a lot of fucking container ships that's under her control that she paid the captains, right? So they smuggle over here and they bring goods back to wherever.

Let's put it that way. During that time, China was in high demand of TV. Okay. Stereo system, any type of electronics. They don't get it directly from, they want American stuff. So when it comes to America, it's big business. You can sell it back in China.

So bring a human over here as labor force, bring your fucking electronic goods back to China. Because it was still closed during that time in the 80s. And I asked her for a favor, and they told her that my uncle was the head of the gang back then, that she knew, that she respected Peter Chin. Okay, right. And she said, because you're his nephew, I'll do you a favor. I said, how much is he going to cost me?

He said, don't worry about money. I'm going to have somebody call you, give you a page tomorrow, and then we're going to tell you which dock to go to and which container ship you're going to be. She said it might be in Jersey, Bayonne. Oh, yeah, right over here. I said, I don't even know where the fuck is Bayonne. It's right here.

Yeah, but afterwards I knew. I said, yeah, I'll here. I don't even know where the fuck is Bayonne, right? It's right here. Yeah, but afterwards I knew. I said, yeah, I'll take a fucking taxi there. So when me and Tony was about to get ready, it was two days away, but somebody spotted me. This guy, I'm not going to put his name out there. He never did time. To me, in my book, is that if you never fucking did time there's a big fucking chance

that you're a rat right okay if you're not a rat you turn yeah that's how I feel if you didn't do time

now doing time there's a difference too if you were in fucking general population or you were in protective custody all that time

oh yeah okay when somebody in general population, you did your whole fucking bit, if you were a rat, if you were a fucking turncoat, if you fucking took a stand,

people will know. Even before you get dropped off on the bus. Because we got inmates working in administration. We were talking about what I was doing in state time. Fed time, it don't make that difference. Child molester,

rapist, before they fucking even stepped out, yo, we got a party tonight. We're going to get ready to fucking bang them up. Who's doing what?

I'll do the shanking. I'll fucking cut them up, you know? So it's like recreation for us in the state. We long for that type of shit. Somebody, a child mol So it's like a, it's like recreation for us. Yeah. In the state. We, we long for that type of shit.

Somebody, a child molester coming in, a rapist, oh shit, that's fun, all right? Oh my God,

we're going to have a fucking party. Target season. Yeah, it's a fucking party. It's a party. Yeah. The lights shut down

at 11 o'clock. There's a lot of people listening right now who aren't that upset about that. I'll say that. We fucking cut him up. We'll stab him up.

It don't matter. So whichever unit he goes to, that's the humans that carry the deed. We fucking cut them up. We'll stab them up. So whichever unit he goes to, that's the humans that carry the deed. We're going to have the party. And then we talk about it in the yard. There's no repercussion when you're in jail doing that shit. Sure. But after 1994, the law changed.

Everything you do inside jail, you get the same charges outside. That wasn't the case. I didn't't the case That wasn't the case before then Before 97? 94? Nah You do whatever you want Wild West in there

I will kill anybody in there And I will not get fucking another charge I'll probably do some whole time Why do you think I did a couple stabbing? And nothing happened to me Who'd you bang up? Chomos? It was all bullshit uh so not traumas no i was um i was on the phone i i hit my um i mean the whole family hit the fact that i was in

jail to my grandmother my grandma was getting old and eventually she found out and when she when I called her back she started crying she said you're my you're my grandson and and am I dearest I don't know if I if I I'll be able to wake you up I'll be around when you're when you're out in jail I know you're going in for a long time I read the newspaper I still and she said I. This is when you got the 18-month one? No. Oh, this is the next one. Yeah. Okay.

We skipped around. Sorry. So I start crying. Fucking tears. I just couldn't hold it in. The words cut me like a fucking knife. Yeah. That was the first time I cried in so many years.

It just fucking tore me up. Sure. So, the guy that was waiting for the phone call, for the phone right after me, this is a black guy, right?

Young black kid, kept on mouthing and all that shit. He said, oh, motherfucking crying, you're such a bitch. He think he's a tough guy.

So I said, all right, grandma, I'll call you in three months. Why I said three months is that I know I'm going to the fucking hole. All right? So I gave, I said, all right, grandma, I'll call you in three months. Why I said three months is that I know I'm going to the fucking hole. All right? So I gave him, I said, here, here's your phone.

So he's calling on the phone, talking to this girl, you know, acting all fucking lovey-dovey in there. While I went back to my son, I said, yo, Tony, I was cellmate with my best friend. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I told him, give me the piece. He said, yo, you sure you want it? I said, don't worry, I want to do this. I want to fucking said, yo, you sure you want it? I said, don't worry.

I want to do this. I want to fucking kill this motherfucker. I went over there just fucking stabbing my neck. And then after, and then I fucking threw the piece while he's on the floor. I picked this fucking asshole, this black kid. I grabbed him by the asshole, pulled his fucking head. I grabbed the fucking, the telephone. I started banging on his fucking face.

I said, motherfucker, here's your fucking phone, bitch. Pow. And he'll fucking eat it. Right. And the cops came and locked my ass up. Three months

because they couldn't find the fucking, the weapon. Who took the weapon? Tony did. Hit it. Yeah. So I did three months.

Okay. Yeah. A couple of times. I got into a fight another two months with a Chinese guy, you know, that was talking shit, I did three months. Okay. A couple of times. I got into a fight. Another two months. You know, the Chinese guy, you know, that was talking shit, slapped the shit out of him while playing a card game. He claims to be a Canadian gangster.

Yeah, a Canadian gangster. I said, fucking Canadian, huh? Canada fucking gangster, right? And he started mouthing off. I got ties with the fucking Triad. So I reached across across the table and smacked him here do something now because you are a triad you were trying i said you try it scared me you're in the same place that i am right right we're in a feds you think you're more you're better than me you ain't right you're just like me um a few times in the hole So she tried to get us out

But this guy like I said Yeah we're back to Cheng Cheap Sister Ping here So she tried to get you out And you said it was like two days before Two days before We were about to go to Bayonne I didn't even know where the fuck is Bayonne

I went down to I I was in China, on Mott Street, across the street from the corner of Transfiguration, the school. There's a Catholic school over there. Okay. On Mott Street. I believe it. So right across over there, we're Peking Duck. Were you guys there at Peking Duck? Right next door to it, on top, there's an association that it was

a clubhouse for us on the top. I walked down, went across the street to pick up some order, and I was like, you know what? There ain't no fucking cops around looking for me, right? I'm walking down my street, and all of a sudden, I saw somebody that I recognized.

And with a blink of an eye, he just fucking disappeared. He ran fast, and he made a fucking phone call. I didn't even reach half a block. The whole fucking area was surrounded by feds with fucking assault rifles, you know, the tactical gear and all that. And I was wearing a cap during that time,

baseball cap. And he said, oh, that's him, that's him. And he was grabbing my picture. I said, that's not me. You got the my picture. I said, that's not me. You got the wrong person. I said, I got no gun, that's not me. You got the wrong person. They were about to let me go until the fucking supervisor came, flipped my fucking cap off.

That's him. That's the guy we wanted. You had said, I lost this in the train of thoughts of other things we were saying, but you had said something about a few minutes ago, somebody shot you, like took a picture of you. Is that what it was? No, no, no.

They spotted me. Spotted you, yes. He was a street guy. Street guy spotted you, and this is like right when this all then goes down after, because then they're like, oh, there he is. All right. I saw him.

I spotted him. I was about to call him, and then fucking with a blinking eye, he fucking just got lost in the car. And then all this goes down. And then I didn't even walk another half a block. Right. And the feds, we're talking about feds, fucking surrounded with tactical gear. So they were on standby

to fucking lock somebody up. Was this the OC crew of FBI? The organized crime crew, I take it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So same guys who were doing Cosa Nostra. They were, they rounded a few of our guys already, but they didn't get me yet. Because I didn't know that my boss turned himself in with the lawyer. Oh, he did?

He gave himself in. When was that? Right before I was locked up. That's why they came for me. Okay. Okay? So I was one of the last before I was locked up. That's why they came for me. Okay. Okay. So I was one of the last ones to get locked up. And so this was like a giant end of a RICO case they've been working.

Yeah. And so this was run by the FBI, NYPD assisting them? Yeah. Okay. And when I got to jail, everybody's like, yo, you're done. So why am I done? He said, because Poppin fucking turned was like yo you're done I said why am I done he said because Robin fucking turned himself in

you're done and did when you say when Robin turned himself in he turned too like he became a rat he cooperated let's not call him names

okay because let's put it this way I understand. He has a family. Yeah. He didn't really turn on me, but he had to. Right.

I can't blame anybody for turning. I chose what I did. I could have said no. I knew the repercussion. I knew the consequences. I could have said no. And walked away repercussion. I knew the consequences. I could have said no and walked away with the other three guys in the beginning. Yes. And nothing would have happened.

But you stayed. I stayed and I knew what was going to happen. And you're still, at this point, you're only what, like 23 when you get arrested? 23. Yeah. Yeah. So you're still a baby when this is all going on. I understand.

I understand. And I was like, you know what? Better to do it time now. I understand. I understand. And I was like, you know what? Better to do time now. All right. Fuck it. You did more gangster life before 23. I mean, it makes Lou Ferrante look like a late bloomer. Yeah.

I mean, my God. The Asians start really young. Clearly. Apparently. Start young. So you get put into jail and you're being told that it's a part of a RICO case. So how did it go down? Did you plead guilty? Talked to my lawyer. So you get put into jail and you're being told that it's a part of a RICO case. So how did it go down?

Did you plead guilty? Talked to my lawyer. I prolonged it as long as I can to understand it. A few times they brought me in down to the prosecutor and they tried to turn me. On who? Like on some of the other gangs? They just said, you know, we don't know if anybody's going to trial. Okay?

But if they go to trial, I want you to take the stand. I said, fuck no. Fuck no. All right? So they kept on back and forth, back and forth until my lawyer got a technicality on freaking double jeopardy that they were charging me. And they boosted my security level. My sentencing guidelines higher. Wait, what they boosted my security level. My sentencing guidelines is higher. Wait, what?

Hold on. Explain that. So they charged me double jeopardy on cases like on a robbery and other stuff that I did time already. It's convicted. I already convicted. So they can't do that. They can't do that. But they brought up my security level, my sentencing guidelines to category four. Because of the previous?

Yes. They can't pin me on a conspiracy to murder at that time. Why not? They wanted to and eventually they didn't have people talking. Not even Robin? He did, but there's only one person.

You need two people to fucking collaborate onto my fucking story. That's how the feds work, right? The people that I fucking was sent to do the job that actually happened. Now, I can talk about it because it was the mobile gas station shooting on East Broadway. Okay. The Tonga members got gunned down because of my direction. I ordered it.

You can talk about this on camera. I fucking, I did the time. It was included in the cop-out. Nobody went to trial, so I didn't. So, it was only Robin talking about it to me. So, you need another fucking person to collaborate, to make that charge formally

charging me, part of it, the conspiracy. I didn't admit it to it. So, I never fucking cooperated. I copped out to it. I was like, fuck it. Let me cop out. What the fuck you got to offer? What'd they offer?

They offered me 80-something months. Fucking took it. For all this? For everything. It wasn't included, but the cop out was for other stuff, for money laundering, heroin, gambling operation. So they're offering you seven, eight years

for all these things. But then they have to make, but if I give you this deal, you have to tell me what was your involvement in that fucking drive-by shooting in Mobile Gas Station.

And you told them. I told them. It's hard to, but I don't, yeah, but I don't have to take a stand on anybody. Interesting.

You understand? But they're giving you seven, eight years? It's a pretty good deal. Not bad, right? It's a really good deal. Shit. You understand? But they're giving you seven, eight years? It's a pretty good deal. Not bad, right? A really good deal. Shit. You gotta come make some deals

for me. Fuck, I was like, I jump on it. I jump on it. I fucking... You jumped on it too. Listen, it was supposed to be 15 years.

And I was still, I was about to take 15 years too. Yeah. I was like, what's 15 years, man? 15 years is no big deal. Yo, I could, I could probably get a fucking bachelor's degree you know i'll be a master's i heard the fucking um the education department's pretty good in the so i did pretty good yeah you did so you you end up doing did you do the full seven eight years

yeah in prison yeah now what was, where'd they send you? They sent me, they had me on fucking still high security. I'll bet. I was in fucking Louisburg for six months. Oh, you went to Louisburg? Yes, but every day was a fucking lockdown. Every day somebody was getting stabbed. We were almost neighbors, fam.

Oh, yeah? Why? I went to college out there in Louisburg. Oh, I bet you went to fucking Louisburg. No. I like you. You're too young to be in Lewisburg, man. I'll tell you who I ran into over there. The head of the Tongan gang.

Clifford Wong. Clifford Wong. He just recently died. Let's pull up Clifford Wong. He has big ties with the Triads. Sun Yung from Hong Kong. Clifford Wong. Yeah.

How do you spell the name of that gang you keep saying? Tong-on. T-U-N-G-O-N. Tong-on. Tong-on. Okay. There it is. Clifford.

Yeah, he just recently died. Clifford C. Wong. Yeah. Fuck, you ran into his ass. Life sentence for ex-head of Chinatown Tong. Interesting. Okay. Yeah, when I ran into his ass. Life sentence for ex-head of Chinatown Tongue. Interesting. Okay. Yeah, when I ran into him, he said, yo, yo, kid, you know who I am?

I don't give a fuck who you are, man. Get the fuck out of here. I know who you are. You're just like me, another fucking jailmate, you know? Wait a second. You were in Lewisburg for the entire time? No, six months. Oh, only six months.

Six months. What year? 94? 94, six months. Oh, only six months. What year? 94? 94, 95, yeah. Were you in there with Lou Ferrante? I don't know. That's like right when he was... Pull up Lou Ferrante real fast.

Not our episode. Yeah, well, I ran into this fucking guy. Yeah, hold on. See, Lou Ferrante mugshot. This guy. He don't know. He was a Gambino. He was just in here for episode 185, the blast of an episode.

This guy. He was a Gambino truck hijacker. I might have saw him, yo. That's hilarious. But put it this way. Every day was a fucking lockdown. Yeah. I mean, every time there was a chance

that fucking people walk in, not even fucking two minutes or even 30 seconds, get the fuck down on the floor. Oh my God. And people be

stabbing each other. Yeah. Lewisburg during that time was fucked up. It was chaos. And you ran into this guy.

Yeah, I ran into him because he's, you know, Asians, attract Asians, you know, in jail.

I don't know why. He said, kiddo, you know who I you know, Asians, attract Asians in jail. I don't know why. He said, kiddo, you know who I am? I said, fuck who you are. I said, I know who you are.

Get the fuck out of my face. What's so special about you? So what, you fucking Clifford Wong? What are you going to do now? You're just an asshole in here with me. With all the fucking money

in the world, all the fucking organization, how big of a tribe you are, you're still in jail eating the same food, buying the same commissary, wearing the fucking organization, how big of a tribe you are, you're still in jail eating the same food by the same commissary wearing the same fucking jumpsuit. So what's so different? What's so special?

And all the Asians in there stuck together, though. Yeah, we stuck together. We tried not to embarrass ourselves. Even the Japanese with you? We don't have Japanese. There were no Japanese in there. I never ran into any Japanese. Law-abiding citizens over there in there. I never ran into any Japanese. Law-abiding citizens over there in Japan.

We never ran into any Japanese. I ran into Koreans, Vietnamese, Cambodians, even Philippines, Taiwan, but never ran into a Japanese. That's fucking strange, right? Very strange. Probably political ties, you know. Maybe. Maybe.

So you did the seven, eight years. fucking strange, right? Very strange. Yeah. Probably political ties, you know? Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. So you did the seven, eight years. You come out, I guess, in like 01, 02, something like that? 01. Okay. I believe it's 01, yeah. Right before fucking World Trade Center. Oh, you were right before. I saw the goddamn building fall down.

Oh, my God. Were you in Manhattan? No, I was in the Brooklyn side. You know where the docks where they play basketball? Of course. Right on top of there. Cameron Plaza. The exit before Cameron Plaza.

How long had you been out of prison at that point? Like a couple months? A couple months. I was working in construction every day. So I was driving two guys to work in 88th Street. There's a church over there that we're doing sheetrock for and some lighting.

So every morning at 7 o'clock, I pick them up and by 7.30, I should reach around there getting ready to hit the bridge. So 7.30, 7.45, all of a sudden, the whole fucking,

the whole, the whole delay. Well, it would have been like 8.45 because that's when it got no okay 7 probably like around 8.45 maybe I got the time

mixed up but I saw the whole fucking thing I I didn't see any any any plane hit into it because I was on

the opposite side of where the plane came so I was like what the fuck is wrong with this morning it's a Tuesday morning what's so special something happened

so all of a sudden I saw this fucking girl in front of the car ran out the car and hysterically holding her phone screaming crying

I was like look at that bitch she's fucking crazy she went nutcase right and the guy in the back seat my worker, said,

yo, I think the Twin Towers are on fire. I looked at him, I said, oh shit, it is fire. I fucking see paper flying all over the fucking place, right? Smoke coming out of there. And I was like, damn. So I turned on 1010 Win, the AM station. And all I heard was like fucking repeating over and over, this is not a joke. This is real time.

New York City is under attack by terrorists. We are under attack. I said, holy shit. All the people around you right there, they're watching it. Everyone's dumbfounded. Everybody was just dumbfounded watching and listening to the news. I was trying to get on a phone call. My sister, don't go out to work.

Keep everybody home. Call all my friends. I have a few friends that work in Royal Trade Center. They were bankers in Stockport. Did you lose anybody? Fortunately, not. Because these fuckers were drinking the night before. And they couldn't fucking wake up for work.

I hear a lot of stories like that. Yep. They skipped their fate but these assholes made me wait at Flatbush they said we're stuck we gotta walk over the bridge but who's gonna take us home

I said okay I'll wait for you at Flatbush right off the bridge where the McDonald's is at I waited for hours but a whole bunch of my friends like around 10 of them bridge where the McDonald's is at. I waited for it for hours. But a whole bunch of my friends, like around 10 of them. Did you see the towers come down? I saw it came down.

But when I saw it, and I kept on listening to it right out, there was a sense of really fucking deep anger in me as a New Yorker. I mean, I really don't, like I said before, I don't give a shit about political issues, whatever the fuck is happening in the world. But when the war hits so close

to home, and also civilians, some of my friends maybe, could have been, or family members, it just triggered a fucking anger inside of me like you know fuck i'm i'm i just got out of jail i'm fucking i'm cut up yeah i can fight you know i know how to fucking operate guns i know everything about fucking assault rifles i had an ar-15 when we're younger oh so so we i know all right you had So I was like, you know what? Let me go join. I actually fucking asked the, went to the recruiting officers. Did you join the Marines? No, I didn't want the Army. I want the Marines.

I originally wanted the Marines too. Only been out of prison two months. Let's go, baby. I said, yo, I could fight. This is my country too, man. All right? It's my country too. I might have done some bad choices in my life.

I did jail time, but I want to fight. He said, unfortunately. He said, you can't fight. I said, but I can fight man I'm surprised the war machine wasn't signed up for that no I was like

fuck yeah I was like give me a fucking gun and some gear and boots and I'll fucking head over there I'll fight you know shit

and they denied me just because I got a fucking record you know that's some shit yeah I could maybe it was the mobile gas station thing I know that might have been it.

I fuck with the corporate. That's why. But you didn't go back at all. So actually, we kind of skipped this over. But these gangs, I think, Ghost Shadow and Flying Dragons ceased to exist after the Rico thing came down. I'll tell you one thing funny. See, we're jumping bits and pieces because I can't give you the whole entire story. Why not?

I'm working on a book also. Oh, shit. So you are working on a book. I signed an NDA with this production company. Okay. I can talk about a lot of stories, but I can't put them all together on one side. I apologize for that. That's okay.

You're doing great. One of these days, well, I'll give you the full bloom. We want the exclusive. So as I was saying, we're at... The gang's ending, like after the Rico. The funny thing about this,

Flying Dragons and the Ghost Shadows fucking hate each other. Even during 4th of July Independence Day, you know, we shoot off fireworks to try to top each other.

We buy fucking nice cars just to outshine each other. Yeah. We go after each other's girl like, yeah, I fuck your girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I fuck your girl too,

you know, type of shit, you know. Yeah. We try to top each other. We compete against each other. We were the two biggest gang in Chinatown. And for some reason, when we were in jail, we became the fucking best of friends.

Really? We hang out together. We sit together at the fucking dining when we were at Chow. So you were in Lewisburg? No, no. When I was at... Before I was sentenced. Lewis was at Before I was sentenced

Oh chill Lewisburg is after I was sentenced Okay Alright so while you're waiting Yeah At Otisville You were in Otisville Waiting everything

Otisville Cause I didn't have to go down And fucking cooperate Like the other fucking rats Right Right okay So So you didn't have to be in MCC

Or anything like that Yeah MCC When you stay in MCC That means you're going back and forth. Right. You're going for the steak and burgers. Right, or the Epstein. We heard about that shit, you know.

Unfortunately, we were down with fucking five riding suit fish. No. And dry up pork chop, you know, where the Muslims don't want to eat it. So we became really fucking good friends with the Peltry Flying Dragon crew. That's some funny-ass shit, you know, that we were trying to outshine each other. We'd fight against each other. We actually shot each other when we were young. Yeah, yeah, rival gangs.

And we became good friends. I still talk to some of them. That's hilarious. Yeah, sometimes I call them, yo, what's up? What's up, Mikey? And then obviously none of you went back because it didn't exist anymore. We know time has changed. We gave a second chance.

We did our time young. We pay our dues. And maybe it's time to do the right decision. Right. Make the right choice and not fall back into that life. But when you were at your peak, 22, 23, you had to have a decent amount of money, no? I'm not going to glorify the life.

No, no, I'm not. I'm just asking from a factual basis. There were times that I have a lot of money. There was a time I was dead broke. But when I was broke, I would try to make money. I would go do my best of skills. Point being, you had the ability to use different ways to do my my best of skills point being you had the ability

to use different ways to go make a lot of money quickly if need be but you know yes but you know a gangster's life

is like a shooting star it only shines for that couple seconds yes in that life span and after that every

all the other times are fucking in darkness but you're still coming out of prison basically like 30 years old you're still coming out of prison, basically, like 30 years old. You're still young. I guess Ghost Shadows is not around anymore. You're broke, but you never thought about going back to that world, which was the only world you would ever know.

No, you had no idea. I had some fucking really devious thoughts. Oh, you did? Yeah. I'll tell you. I'll give you the rundown. So there was a wave of Chinese official corrupted officials

okay sending well with a lot of corruption money from China sending their fucking kids over here for boarding school to overseas

over here to the United States for school to blend in with the Chinese community but these fuckers don't know how to blend in spoiled second generation

firing fucking Ferraris yeah it's not a problem Maseratis and Lamborghinis I was like yeah you think I don't have people back in fucking China

shit fucking kidnap that's my thought kidnap these motherfuckers and have somebody ransom them they gotta pay that fucking that's gotta pay

yeah but it was just like, you know what? I can't do that. Who the fuck am I? I can't do that. I promised my grandmother when I came home. She was still alive. They made me kneel in front of my father's grave.

Made the uncles to swear I would never do anything embarrassing to the family again. So you didn't? I never broke the law. Maybe a couple of traffic violations. That's okay.

That happens. But I never did anything else. But you got into construction. You're still there today? That's where I take my anger out. You know, digging ditches. You take your anger out. Using the hammer and everything, yeah.

But you live down in Atlantic City now. You moved away from New York. How long ago? Well, not exactly Atlantic City. A few X's after, you know. Right, right, right. Egg Harbor, same shit. Yeah, but I'm safe there.

The reason why I'm safe there is that I'm easily triggered when I'm in New York. I don't think anybody's going to be able to... At my age, I'm still pretty nimble. I don't think anybody's going to be able to. At my age, I'm still pretty nimble. I don't think anybody's going to be able to attack me without getting a fucking piece of me. I'm pretty on point. Michael, my channel and some other guys, they always laugh at me. You know, you're fucking YouTube famous. I said, I don't feel shit.

I'm just a normal fucking guy, a middle-aged guy. So a couple of incidents, I was at the casino in New York too. Or Philly, when I go to certain functions with my family. I still have the spider senses, the gangsters, the senses. Somebody creeping up behind me.

I had no idea that they were fans. They said, oh, I know you. You're Kenny, right? You're Kenny, right? I said, do I know you from somewhere? I was like,

yo, back it up. I was like, yo, hold my fucking knife first. I have a pocket knife all the time. Today I didn't bring it. Don't worry. Because I know I'm safe. Yeah, it'll be good here. Don't worry.

So most of the time I have my knife. And I'm holding my knife. I said, do I know you from somewhere? You from somewhere I'm very suspicious and skeptic about it he said we're friends we're friends we watch your YouTube I said

alright thank you thank you for your sword and I don't know how to fucking you know respond to them I just walk away I had this fucking guy

in Queens I was going to dim sum with my family right and this guy kept on fucking staring at me right

I was like what the fuck is this family, right? And this guy kept on fucking staring at me, right? I was like, what the fuck is this guy staring at me? Did I kill your father or something right now? Did I take your girl? I'm still holding my knife now. It's another incident. So I walk up to this guy, right? Before he walks up to me.

So I took one step. He said, you're Kenny, right? With a very, you know, feminine, a normal, a very pleasant, I won't say feminine, pleasant manner. He says, you Kenny, right? I said, yeah, I'm Kenny. Yeah, yeah. YouTube, right?

YouTube. I guessed it right at that time. He said, yeah, yeah. I'm a big fan. I'm a big fan. I said, can I have a selfie with you? I said, yeah, whatever, yeah. So I took a selfie with him, it was nice so you get easily startled

you're saying yeah so you left New York because you felt like too many people were pissing you off right before right after the pandemic

in in March 25th I remember it was a citywide shutdown nationwide March 25th I remember that day

a week later I was still at work because I was a construction safety supervisor. You're a safety supervisor. I have to be on site. I have to be on site. You've come a long way. Yes. I know how to do construction. Yeah, clearly.

I'm not very, very good, but I know the codes. I know how to maintain and properly build a building. I built quite a few in downtown Brooklyn. No shit. Wow. New York, too, in the city, too. I worked on projects with the Long Island City, the 70-story building. Wow.

Yeah. That's pretty cool. I came a long way, you know. Yeah, yeah. Become a law-abiding citizen, you know. Clearly. So, early in the morning, I take the train. There was only essential workers, me, and this fucking black guy.

I'm not being racist. I'm not being racist, but it's a black guy. It had to be a fucking black guy to ask me that fucking stupid question. I have my AirPods on one side. I always have one side because the other side, I want to hear what... ask me that fucking stupid question. I have my ear pods on one side. I always have one side because the other side, I want to hear what, if anybody's fucking

attacking me. You know what? Me too. I started doing that recently. Don't fucking put both of them on. I swear to God. That's why I have this

right now. So my good ear, I need to listen. This ear, for some reason, it doesn't hear that well. This fucking guy sit across from me trying to yap me like you know

uh get my attention he said and i looked at him i took off my earphone i said what what do you want said you chinese i said oh come on motherfucking too early for that shit i put my headphone back leave me the fuck alone all right and then he kept on fucking yeah yeah you're fucking chinese all right so he said something stupid right he said you fucking brought yeah, you're fucking Chinese. So he said something stupid, right? He said, you fucking brought the virus. You should stay home. Oh, no. Right?

So I took it off. I put everything in my pocket, getting ready, right? So I got up. I said, yo, yo, bitch, when you and your mother brought Ebola from fucking Africa, nobody ever fucking blamed you, right? You fucking stupid bitch. He said, what you talking about, mother? He got up and he he was

about to push me i grabbed his fucking arm and i fucking knocked him in the fucking uh neck of it and i tripped him on my with my leg he fell on the fucking floor and i and my construction i kept on stopping him i said you fucking bitch i've had to make me fucking get angry early in the morning seven thirty in the fucking morning and i just don't want that to happen i got locked up my boss understood you know five hours later without telephone silence what the happened to you i thought you were dead my girl was calling me everybody was looking for me so i got locked up you know for self-defense luckily there was uh some nurses in a tiny guy in the car.

Oh, so they said... But they did lock me up for disorganized conduct. Oh, gotcha. Stupid, right? And then you left New York because of that? Yeah, my girl said, why don't you come down here? Don't live up there.

You're going to fucking kill somebody. Oh, she was already down here working at the casinos. She told me that I'm going to kill somebody. Yeah. I was like, all right. I don't want to kill nobody. Good call. I want to be outside. How are you liking it down there?

It's fucking nice. It's nice. I work. I have a normal day job. I do my own work. Nobody takes me off. Everybody is very well mannered, polite. There's no problem. Nice, nice. And you guys, the channel, which, again, we have linked in the description below,

it's a group of you guys who are like a part of it. Childhood friends from the neighborhood, from Brooklyn. Right, and they're ghost shadows. Do you have Flying Dragons involved at all? No. They don't want to get on the channel. Okay. For their personal reason. Okay.

Fair enough. Understood. Because we're at the age, uh, um, I did it because of, uh, I, I can't deny a friend, especially a brother, right, that I know all my life. So when Michael said, can you help me out? Anything for you. Well, it's entertaining stuff. And besides, he told me it's, you know, people come and go. But what we do is immortal. It's

history. And we're not trying to glorify our life. We're trying to give the truth and honest to the public, and if they believe it, they believe it. If they want a fat check, let them fat check, but I'm going to try to be as honest and as truthful as possible. At my age, I put it this way. If you have nothing to hide, nobody can hold you fucking ransom or blackmail you. That's right. That's my fucking...

So that's why I try to be honest with everything. Like, people ask me, did I used to do coke? Of course I do. Fucking do fat lines. So fucking what? You know? I didn't steal, I didn't beg, and I'd fucking take money out of your fucking pocket, right? I could afford it. So I'm not a junkie. I might be a

fucking drug addict, but I'm not a junkie. Right? There's a difference, huh? Yeah, there is a fucking difference. People that fucking go steal and break through. If they can't afford it, don't fucking do it. If you can't handle it, don't do it. That's how I feel. That should be the new drug line.

Don't do drugs unless you can afford it. But nowadays, I don't do it. I try not to. I have a family. I have kids. I have nieces and nephews that look up to me. I can't give them I try not to I have family I have kids I have nieces and nephews that look up look up to me

I can't give them that type of disappointment that their uncle and their you know their mother's boyfriend is a fucking drug addict

right right 100% those were some wild times yeah but I still have the after effects from my fucking nasal problem

infection you have the deviated septum and shit especially when I'm at the construction site the dust it doesn't fucking help septum and shit especially when I'm at the construction site the dust it doesn't fucking help the weather changes

allergies everything comes together sometimes I feel like I'm chopping off the fucking nose oh boy yeah that's how bad it is

well you're not doing it now so that's good yeah but your story is pretty god damn compelling and you seem to think it was less compelling than others

but if the others are more compelling I really gotta hear those ones it's less compelling than others, but if the others are more compelling, I really got to hear those ones. It's just a boring life. Boring, yeah. That's not the word I'd use. It's stupid and very senseless, very wrong choice. Well, yeah, but again, I think I've always talked with a lot of people about this on the show. It's one of my favorite psychological topics topics but people being a product of their environment and what you know obviously you got to you have to make decisions along the way and

take some responsibility for that for sure but it's also like you kind of sometimes the the deck gets set in such a way that you know the slippery slope forms in a certain direction and for you losing your dad when you did and then being around the people you were around when that happened i mean you were a hard-hitting gangster at age 12 it's like what it was the culture right and that's and so it you obviously have a pretty good perspective on that now but it's hard to imagine like everyone out there listening and i'll speak for myself too like you know i was in grade school at that time and i was in sixth grade, fifth grade, whatever, going to class, doing whatever, had two parents at home, the whole bit. It's hard to compare that and compare what you would have done. I'm very careful with the line, if I were blank, then I would blank.

You don't fucking know until you're in it. And it seems like it obviously took you a while to kind of see that and you had to kind of get to the bottom of a hole to see that, but you have. And now you seem to live a pretty good life. Your YouTube channel gets to tell the oral history of it. That's kind of cool. Yes. You're doing your thing. You've got your girl.

You're down out of the city now. You know, that's not too bad. And I don't need a lot of money. Just content. Just content. Yes, just content is fine, yeah. All right. Well, listen, Kenny, thank you so much for coming up here, man.

No, thank you. It was my honor. Oh, Leslie, this was a very good suggestion. This was a very fun podcast. A good call, my friend. Hey, I had no idea, let me tell you. I did not expect this much. Well, we are good.

If you enjoyed this, please hit that subscribe button. We want to hear your comments down below, what you thought of Kenny and his story. And other than that, everyone else, you know what it is. Give it a thought, get back to me. Peace. Thank you guys for watching the episode. Before you leave, please be sure to hit that subscribe button and smash that like button on the video. It's a huge help. And also if you're over on Instagram, be sure to follow the show at Julian Dory podcast, or also on my personal page at Julian D. Dory. Both links are in the description below. Finally, if you'd like to catch up on our latest episodes,

use the Julian Dory podcast playlist link in the description below. Thank you.