Julian Dorey Podcast - 🫢 [VIDEO] - James Fox Explains "Moment of Contact" IN DEPTH | #139

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey guys, important note on today's episode. If you are on one of the audio platforms and not YouTube or Spotify where there's video, the first 35 seconds of the intro you're about to hear is in Portuguese and you're not going to be able to see the captions and understand what's being said. But the rest of the podcast is completely in English and you'll be good to go. Outside of that, to all my people on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five star review if you have a second. It's a huge, huge help to us on that platform to get more reach. And also, if you'd like to support this show and my ability to put out more content in the future,

Starting point is 00:00:34 please check out our Patreon link on the show page and join our new community over there. That said, please enjoy this episode with James Fox. A boca da casa era aquela. Foi aqui que caiu. Se eles morreram aqui... Thank you. Let me just say something. I'm going to say this to your audience. the most significant event in history or it's a most elaborate fabricated hoax I've ever seen it's one of the other there's no in-between with this case either a UFO crashed and live aliens that's right live aliens were walking through the town cowering and hiding in broad daylight and captured by the brazilian authorities some of them during the capture people that were involved died as exposure to these creatures, allegedly. And then the U.S. came in, grabbed the crashed debris and the aliens and took them back to the United States.

Starting point is 00:02:50 Now, that either happened or it's the most elaborate hoax, fabricated hoax in modern history. There's no gray zone with this case. So as someone who's investigated the phenomenon for 30 years, I myself did not believe this case back in the 90s when I heard about it, to the point where I refused to look into it. What a fucking promo. I just watched that. I'm now convinced. I'm talking to your audience because I'm

Starting point is 00:03:15 serious as fuck right now. Yeah, we got him on the screen right now. I'm just watching over here. I'm not even looking at you. I'm just saying, take it from me, as someone who's done this for 30 years, I didn't believe it. I would not have spent 12 years of my life on this case, on and off, gone back and forth to Brazil countless times, if I didn't believe it happened. I'm putting my credibility and reputation on the line, I get it. But I'm asking you just to suspend judgment.

Starting point is 00:03:46 Don't draw any immediate conclusions, because like I did did and i dismissed it for over 10 years just imagine if it did happen how significant would you out of it would you consider this and and just listen to the firsthand eyewitness testimony and draw your own conclusions brilliant so i had mentioned we talked about this during the bathroom break a little bit ago that this was going to be two podcasts now because i saw the length we were going and everything so we're in the second podcast so for people who haven't seen the first podcast or you know because it's going to be a standalone kind of thing on its own about moment of contact and particularly when did this case of the virginia of the virginia brazil ufo sighting that you are referring to first come onto your radar? It was 1998.

Starting point is 00:04:32 So two years after the event. Yeah. And I was making, I was starting, putting the pieces together and kind of mapping out out of the blue. It could have been 99, but I think it was 98 or 99. Excuse me. And I had teamed up with a couple of people. One guy that I'd worked with in the past,

Starting point is 00:04:48 Boris Zuboff, who's a technical wizard, brilliant editor, technical sound design, color correction, that kind of thing. We teamed up on a couple of things. We'd worked together. And then I brought a new guy in, this guy Tim Coleman. And when the three of us and Tim had some resources, I was broke as a joke and tim also had a a journalistic background i think he was a former bbc correspondent very

Starting point is 00:05:13 brilliant guy articulate amazing he's like oh mate we gotta look into this this this incident that happened in brazil i was like what incident are you talking about he goes oh ufo crashed it's absolutely phenomenal you know and i was like okay a ufo crashed in brazil and he's like yeah and the aliens survived and they were walking to the town i went okay i picked the wrong partner for this case uh right sure uh tim yeah we'll look into it and uh you know literally that's what i did and i just like put him on the side and actually he was pissed off that i just dismissed him in the story like just like that right there's no way a ufo could crash the alien survived the the impact site be walking through the town highly populated, get witnessed and captured.

Starting point is 00:06:06 A proper ballpark. How many people lived there at the time? Like how big a town? 100,000 maybe? 100,000? 130,000? Yeah. It was known for coffee before this. And the whole world, I'm sorry, that's just impossible. So I refused to look into it. And he was actually pissed off with me. He was like, you just dismissed me in the case. And I said, well, yeah, sure, I did. You can't make that claim and not back it up. No. And so I didn't look into it.

Starting point is 00:06:35 And I did two UFO. I did Out of the Blue, Out of the Blue 2. Then I did I Know What I Saw. Then 2011, I've done all these UFO films. I'm going down to Brazil, and on I Know What I Saw, I was going to talk about I Know What I Saw, just my UFO background in general, at a conference at a place called Ben Ubi.

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Starting point is 00:07:52 And there's an island right off the coast of Padua that you can see from the cafes at the waterfront cafes. And you see this island and it's got this deadly snake. It's the only place on earth that has this deadly snake. And its venom is apparently very valuable. And so these poachers would go to the island and try to poach these snakes' venom, and the snakes would drop out of trees and kill these poachers. And so that was like, we were all talking about this island off the coast of Periwi, and we could see it from the cafes, and I was there with Stanton Freeman, yada, yada,

Starting point is 00:08:19 yada. So I'm there on unrelated... I get a phone call right before I leave to Sao Paulo from a guy named Jeff Sagansky, who's been very influential behind the scenes in helping me, this independent guy with no resources, just, you know, an ambition basically of wanting to look into this whole story

Starting point is 00:08:40 and all the rest of it. And I respect him tremendously tremendously he's like almost probably a billionaire he ran sony and big big big time look him up jeff zagansky so i have tremendous respect for him so i'm not going to dismiss him in front of his face or anybody because i pick up the phone he's like you're going to brazil i said yeah he goes oh you got to look into that virginia ufo crash case i was like not this again and this time it's happening with jeff sagansky i was like uh you mean the one where the you have the aliens survived the the crash that one he's like oh yeah yeah you gotta look at that i was like sure jeff i'll look into that for you click like i'll just go fuck myself yeah i was like but i couldn't tell jeff how how quickly

Starting point is 00:09:21 i dismissed it i was like yeah jeff sure, I'll look into that for you. Click. No intention of looking into it. I was like, I don't do crazy, okay? Sure, there's a few people listening. They might argue that. I know. 52 DC UFOs. That's all I'm saying.

Starting point is 00:09:38 So anyway, I get there to this conference, and I meet a couple of witnesses and a couple of researchers, and Stanton Friedman was there. Stanton's like, oh, yeah. Like, I looked into that case. I was like, really? He goes, well, yeah, I just happened to be in Brazil on a speaking tour when it happened, so I was caught up in it a little bit. I looked at, yes.

Starting point is 00:09:58 He goes, wow, fire department and police department and these three girls. The angles. Came within, you know know eight feet of his life what like three really he goes yeah yeah yeah oh no yeah i thought okay well i have tremendous respect for stanton friedman stanton freeman you know, physicist, a nuclear physicist, help uncover Roswell. Like, you know, come on, Stanton Freeman, one of the best. I was like, okay, well, geez, all right. And then I met some witnesses. I met some other researchers in Brazil and I was like, okay, maybe I was wrong. Maybe there is something to this story. Is this still 2011? Yes. Okay. Yep, 2011.

Starting point is 00:10:45 Okay. So I was like, well, maybe there is something to this story. So I started looking into it. But you weren't going to include it in the phenomenon. Well, my intention was to, yes, to do that, because I did some filming. But as I got into the case, it started getting, there were so many levels of detail.

Starting point is 00:11:05 Like I talked earlier with you guys about Socorro. How many aspects of that in general? On the last podcast, yeah. So sorry, on the last podcast. I talked about Socorro. I talked about the symbol that was on the side of the craft. And I talked about the metal shavings and all this stuff. Well, all those factors were not included in ultimately what ended up on the screen in the phenomenon.

Starting point is 00:11:24 You only have so much time. were not included in ultimately what ended up on the screen in the phenomenon, right? You only have so much time. When did you have a moment where you're like, wait a second, I think I believe this? Like how long did that happen? I'll tell you exactly when that moment happened. So I, it was 2000, well, okay, so I was suspecting something truly crazy happened. I was suspecting that. But exactly what, I don't know. But I was like, there's enough here to merit more of my time. So I went back in 2012, then I went back in 2000, probably 13 or 14. And then I had boots on the ground.

Starting point is 00:12:10 I was working with this other guy named Marco Leal, who was amazing, and him and a whole crew of others. And they were going back and forth, and we were constantly in contact and trying to reach additional witnesses. And I get an interview. I'm sorry if I could tell you if it was 2013 or 2014. I'm sorry, I don't remember. I'm sorry if I could tell you if it was 2013 or 2014. I'm sorry. I don't remember. Probably 2013.

Starting point is 00:12:27 With a general. Sorry, brigadier, Air Force, Brazilian. His name is José Carlos Pereira. Are you doing it with a translator? Does he speak English? He spoke a little English with a translator, but he did speak a little English. And he said, I'll give you an interview about ufos in brazil but if you ask me about virginia this interview is terminated and i'm leaving the room

Starting point is 00:12:50 i was like what yeah you don't talk about yeah ufos are real but i'm not talking about virginia not not you mention it and this is this interview is terminated oh might did your head also think though potentially oh he thinks that one's so stupid that he's not going to waste his time with it or was it only like oh shit he's got something to hide something to hide okay no question so okay so i made him that promise that i wouldn't so but i was like well that's weird right because if it didn't happen he would just say oh that's there's nothing to that case don't ask me so anyway at the end of the interview, Jose Carlos Pereira, I've got photographs of this interview. He's in the film, too. He's in the moment of contact at the end.

Starting point is 00:13:31 He's dead. That's why I'm talking about this, because I wouldn't have promised him I wouldn't. I got to the point where I was almost licking this guy's boots. I mean, when I tell you that I was praying, I was like, I was doing this, I was doing this. Marco was too. Marco was translating what I was saying. I was like, please, just please, I swear on my life, there are no recording devices. I've got no audio, no

Starting point is 00:13:56 cameras rolling, nothing. This is between the three of us. I'll take you to the grave so long as you're alive. Did Varginha happen? What happened to Vargin Virginia? I'm looking him dead square in the eyes I'm looking right into his soul. You got some strong eyes I wanted to fucking know if that damn case happened I wanted to know and I knew he knew and I was begging and pleading so was Marco Marco was right there with me Walks back to his car i'm begging him

Starting point is 00:14:26 please just please he gets sits down in the back of his car he's got a driver and he sits down he leaves the door open marco and i were standing right there and he looked at us and he said it happened close the door off he went i was. And then he's probably laughing on the road like, those dumb motherfuckers. No, no, no, no, no. I looked into this guy's soul, man, I'm telling you. And it was like, this guy confirmed it to me. And I knew right then and there, I was all, okay, that's pretty good proof for me. I wouldn't want to lie to your eyes.

Starting point is 00:14:59 You really, people, I don't know if they can appreciate that on camera. But you got some ice in those veins. I will look into someone's soul with my eyes. Yeah. Yeah. I will. I feel it. You're like poking around.

Starting point is 00:15:10 It's kind of violating me right now. I might press charges. Get out of here. Stop fucking me with your soul. Oh, my God. Well, I do. You know, I'm an incredibly curious human being. Like, when I hear about something, I want to get to the bottom of it.

Starting point is 00:15:26 I want every detail. I want to be put on the scene. I want to experience it. I'm fascinated by this topic. I'm fascinated by this story in a way that, you know, I have to remind your audience, like, if it's true, these accounts are true, it could have something to do with, it's a big part of the bigger picture of the universe. Yes, absolutely.

Starting point is 00:15:49 Something to do with our existence. Do they have a hand in our existence? Who knows? It's a meaning of life question if I've ever seen one. It's a meaning of life question. It's the bigger picture of the universe, the bigger picture of reality. Jesus, you know, this is potentially incredibly significant, even if we don't have all the answers, this is incredibly significant. And so when I get to a witness, I don't just believe a story.

Starting point is 00:16:13 I don't believe any stories. Usually I start off by not believing the stories. There's no way. I like that about you. You have a high threshold of skepticism and bullshit meter. I really do. And I had some people in Australia. I was investigating a landing case with Shane Ryan.

Starting point is 00:16:33 Did a short film on it. It's about a UFO landing that took place in 1966 at Westall Primary School. And there were 365 people standing outside in broad daylight. Oh, yeah. This was a phenomenon. Fascinating case. school and there were 365 people standing outside in broad daylight oh yeah this was in the phenomenon fascinating case and there was a guy who was the english professor i think he's actually finally come out he'd been hiding for 50 years and i remember the fellow researchers in the area when i arrived don't even bother trying mr greenwood will never talk it ain't gonna happen

Starting point is 00:17:02 we've been trying for 50 years i said get me in the room with them that's it just get me in the room with this guys yeah and and and i looked him in the eyes sitting down at a cafe his wife had left thank god because his wife's like baby you ain't talking about this but i looked him dead square in the eyes and and one of the fellow researchers looked at me and he goes what were you doing i? I said, I was looking into his soul. You know? Because I want to know. Anyway, so it's one of my techniques because it's not like, it's real in the sense that I really do want to know what the truth is. I want to know what the person knows.

Starting point is 00:17:42 I want to know if they're full of shit. I want to know. Biggest thing in life is to waste one's time. You don't get that back. You know what the person knows i want to know if they're full of i want to know biggest thing in life is to waste one's time you don't get that back yeah you know what i mean don't waste my time do what you say you're going to do whatever follow through you know let's not let's just be honest here let's just get and so i looked into jose carlos perera's eyes Very intense. I don't think I've ever taken a crowbar and pried harder than I did with him. What year is this now? Probably 2013. All right. So this is, and you're in Virginia.

Starting point is 00:18:13 This is the highest level Brazilian Air Force official I'd ever met with. I'd met with an Air Force general, sorry, an Army general. I got him on camera and he skirted the issue a little bit with me as well. But this guy had a soul. He had a heart and a soul. And I kind of cracked it, and both Marco and I kind of cracked it just for a moment, just to get through. So anyway, so that, at that point, I was like, all right, I'm going to look into this case further. And I had some people that I'd worked with in the past like leslie kane and jacques valet and a number of people they were like i'd be careful on this one

Starting point is 00:18:50 i don't know if this seems something fishy or i don't you know it's like well i said i i get your i know i know how you feel i i understand just let me just trust my judgment a little bit on this one let me roll don't you know and you're kind of bookmarking it because you're working on the phenomenon. You obviously are making a decision now where you're like, I want to do this separately. So this is going to be the next one. I tried to squeeze it into the phenomenon and it just didn't happen. I tried for eight months and I shot a bunch of times and I didn't. It was too big of a story.

Starting point is 00:19:19 There was too many moving parts. I couldn't, I just couldn't get it down to, it wasn't like a sighting. It was a whole story of a crash. There were witnesses that had disappeared for 20 plus years. I just, you know, so I kept going and I kept going and we kept going. And I said, Marco, excuse me, we got to find the crash witness, guy, Carlos DeSalsa. Where the hell is he? I don't know. He's been off the radar for 26 years 25 years nobody can find him it's like well we got to find him what about this other guy we got to find him what about the you know somebody involved with as a military base we got you know so we're going after all these these people finally we had enough contacts from

Starting point is 00:20:00 over the last 11 12 years where i was going to go one final time and shoot. And that's when Alessi, you know, I guess Alessi saw me on Joe Rogan and he contacted me and said, hey, love to be a part of any kind of production or whatever. And I said, you know, I've heard that many times in the past. And people don't really have the follow through. And for people that didn't see the last podcast, Alessi's in the studio with us right now. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:27 If you're just listening and not watching. Yeah, sorry. So I said, you know, I might do this production, stay in touch. And he got... How old were you, 21? Yep. Yeah. So he got back in touch and lo and behold, there's Alessi, you know.

Starting point is 00:20:42 I was like, okay, well, you know, we might be doing the shoot, and then another couple weeks or whatever, I'm going to do the shoot in Brazil for a month. He's never going to show up. Yeah, so then I said, I'll tell you what, we're going to be staying at this hotel room in Sao Paulo. If you show up, you jump in, you'll be part of the crew. Can you carry cameras? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:21:00 I'm never going to see this kid again. He shows up in Sao Paulo, gets his ass over there, and boom, there he is. And yeah, and we shot for a solid month. And we'd had contacts that we'd been working with and talking to and sometimes even previously taken on camera for, like I said, the last 11, 12 years. So we had them kind of quasi-lined up, and then we had a couple of potentials that were like thinking about it, like I said, the last 11, 12 years. So we had them kind of quasi-lined up,

Starting point is 00:21:25 and then we had a couple of potentials that were, like, thinking about it, like, maybe. And then we had others that were like, I don't care how much money or anything you offer me, it's never going to happen. Don't even try. How big was the crew again, like, total people that you had? Five or six?

Starting point is 00:21:42 Because we had Guy. Yeah. Dave. Yep. You. Yep. Emily. Emily. Me. that you had in the last thing five or six yeah yep you yep Emily Emily me and then the translators Pedro and and Marco research so we had a looks like a page seven killing seven so we got crew seven yeah it's a good, tight crew. Yeah, good, tight crew. And then we had... We had... We'd found Military X. Marco found Military X.

Starting point is 00:22:12 The guy that allegedly drove the creature around. Maybe I should get into the story a little bit. Yeah, so let me reshuffle the deck here so that we can... Yeah, go for it. Hey, guys, quick note for you. As I announced last week, we are officially live with the Patreon. I'm hoping to grow this community so that I can invest back in the show and put out more episodes in the future. Right now we are featuring exclusive content over there as well as some

Starting point is 00:22:36 preview clips and some behind the scenes with me. And pretty soon we're also going to have a patron only discord as well as some other cool things So, please check out the link in the description for the page and I hope to see you guys over there. Thank you we can start this from the top and organize this because the way one of the best parts of the documentary was how Simply you put this together almost like five to six ish chapters that covered from each angle I think it was like six total major witnesses that were covered here ironically so it's like six degrees of separation and they were all unrelated except for maybe one of them but let's start with Carlos Sosa which I definitely knew a coke dealer named

Starting point is 00:23:21 Carlos Sosa that's really fucking with. But this was the guy who allegedly – Breaking Bad. You at least already mentioned that generally what happened here, these aliens got out. They were alive. People saw them in Virginia, and that's why he didn't believe it. But Carlos Sosa was the Virginia resident who was present by this field that allegedly saw the UFO come down and crash. Carlos Sosa was a professor in Sao Paulo, which is about five hours to the south. And he was also an ultralight pilot. And he was flying the bricks.

Starting point is 00:24:01 That's his cover story. No. But he was going to go meet with some of his friends and go fly ultralight airplanes in a place called the state of Minas Gerais, which is also part of Virginia as the military base. Anyway, he's driving. It's super early in the morning. He's going to meet with these guys to go ultralight flying. I'll put him in the corner of the screen so people can see him yeah i think it's like 5 00 a.m and he uh sees this cigar-shaped metallic object in the sky not very high up in the in the sky above him uh flying erratically slowly it had a huge gash in the side of it he He said it had like a white vapor.

Starting point is 00:24:46 Not like smoke that you'd expect from a fire, but like a white vapor coming out the backside. How high approximately did he say it was? I got the feeling that it was like a thousand feet above him, maybe. Not high. He was like, this thing's coming down. And he never once thought alien, extraterrestrial, not a once. thousand feet above him maybe okay not high he was like this thing's coming down like he was and he never once thought alien extraterrestrial not at once he was like oh my god what is this thing it's like a cigar shaped you see wings he was like he didn't know what it was but it was

Starting point is 00:25:14 in trouble and he was watching it and it was struggling just to keep its altitude and it was coming down and then he sees it go down behind a hill, so he lost sight of it, but it was going down. He was like, this thing was crashing. No question. So he gets off the freeway, and he drives up a dirt road on a farm called the Maialini Farm, and it's January 13th, roughly 5 a.m. It's dawn.

Starting point is 00:25:42 1996. He's driving up this dirt road into the direction where he saw this thing go down and he comes upon a football field size area of metallic debris like almost like tin foil

Starting point is 00:25:58 and then a very large portion of the craft still intact and again it was like we have illustrations. I don't know if you have them. We have illustrations in the film. And what I do for when I do illustrations or animations for any film project, I cut myself out of the loop. I hire an illustrator or an artist and I put that artist directly in touch with the witness. Why would you have the witness describe to me what they saw

Starting point is 00:26:26 and then me translate that to the artist? I just put the two of them directly in touch, and then they go at it. So he sees this field of debris and this large section of the craft still intact. And he described the whole thing when it was in the air about the size of a school bus, like, you know, those big school buses. He gets out of the car and immediately he's overwhelmed with this stench of ammonia and sulfur. He said it was so intense.

Starting point is 00:27:04 He grabbed his T-shirt, he pulled it up over his face, and he held it like this, and he was like, what am I, this smell, kind of the last thing he's expecting, and he sees this tinfoil-type material, and he goes down, and he grabs a piece of it and he said it was like about this big and he crumpled it up with his hands and he said he didn't feel anything like it wasn't even in his hands it just was so light and then he said it when he let it go it regained its

Starting point is 00:27:39 shape and he's like what you know just to himself he's like what the? You know, just to himself, he's like, what the hell? And at which point... So you've always been picky about your produce. But now you find yourself checking every label to make sure it's Canadian. So be it. At Sobeys, we always pick guaranteed fresh Canadian produce first. Restrictions apply. See in-store or online for details. It won't take long to tell you Neutral's ingredients.

Starting point is 00:28:07 Vodka. soda, natural flavors. So, what should we talk about? No sugar added. Neutral. Refreshingly simple. The opposite direction on the dirt road, from where he drove in, came these military trucks and jeeps, and I think one of them may be even an ambulance, and they came in from the opposite direction. How soon? Within minutes. Within minutes. one of them maybe even an ambulance and they came in from the opposite direction how soon within minutes within minutes and um but he didn't say like it was 45 seconds or something he was just

Starting point is 00:28:53 like within minutes within minutes yeah within minutes yeah within minutes because i didn't know if like maybe you know tinfoil hat on here they were tracking it and they're like oh there it is and they're already there you know undoubtedly that's what happened. But in any case. And ultimately, he was at gunpoint, told to leave. He didn't see anything. He wasn't supposed to be there. You know, all these things. So he was like, still he thought maybe it was a secret test program,

Starting point is 00:29:23 and he witnessed something he shouldn't have witnessed. He was like, he left. He was scared, like, you know. And he gets a couple miles down the road, and he stops off at a gas station. I've seen the very gas station. He's having, he gets a coffee, and he's trying to calm his nerves

Starting point is 00:29:39 and just process everything that just happened. And he has a coffee, and he comes out, and he sees an unmarked government looking car black or dark blue like an opal he described it with no license plates pulling and two men in suits get out and they came up to him and they knew his name they knew his wife's name they knew where he lived they knew about his kid his daughter and like you know you didn't see anything and if you talk about brazil they were all brazilian all that those my impression was that they were brazilian yes but i didn't ask him but that's a good question but yes that they definitely spoke like a cheeseburger i know so uh they spooked him they They're like, you know, things are gonna get very weird if you talk about what you saw.

Starting point is 00:30:28 Then the accounts a week later of these strange creatures is spreading like wildfire in the headlines. And these three girls that come upon in the town of Virginia, which wasn't far from where he saw this UFO, this thing crash. These reports coming out of these beings, these girls are talking about it, these three sisters, about a week later, were walking through the town, a little shortcut in the town of Virginia, Brazil.

Starting point is 00:30:55 It was January 20th, about 3 o'clock in the afternoon, 1996. Three girls, two sisters, Liliani, Liliani, Valkyria, and then Katya was a friend. Was she older? Yeah, Katya was 21, Liliani was 16, and Volkeria was 14. Got it. And they were coming home. Like I said, it was about 3 o'clock in the afternoon,

Starting point is 00:31:19 and they were going through this field that had a cinder block wall on one side and partly on the other side, almost like kind of an area that looked like it was going to be constructed, but then it kind of stopped, and they had tall grass growing in the field. And they were going through there taking this shortcut. Quick question, just so I remember. What time did you say Carlos saw it? The 13th.

Starting point is 00:31:41 It was the morning of the 13th at around 5 a.m., 4.30. So before the sun's up. Yes, about a week earlier. Okay. Yeah. A week earlier. About a week earlier, yeah. Six, seven days, yeah. Okay, so now a week later, and you do a brilliant job in the documentary, by the way.

Starting point is 00:31:58 One of my favorite things you do is you have a lot of great drone shots and do stuff from above, but one of the features you have is you will put you'll have the drone shot like a map like a google earth almost but it's yours and you'll put the exact location like written out so people can see where everything is in relation and what's crazy about the girls sighting is this is in the middle of the town yeah it's in like what what was it behind again at the now it's an abandoned like kind of field but was it the same thing at the time like it was behind a wall yeah it was like a like a it was like a lot that could be potentially developed that wasn't developed and it had like cinder block walls almost like you know yeah like one watt and there's another lot that was developed and what were they doing there they were just taking a shortcut going home

Starting point is 00:32:42 okay yeah and they said there was some graffiti on the cinder block wall, which is still there today. And that got their attention. And they were kind of looking at the graffiti. And then they see this, like, I'll remind your audience, this is broad daylight, okay? They see this thing, like, I don't know, is it a statue? Like, what? It was just this thing. that was crouching down. Excuse me, I'm sorry.

Starting point is 00:33:10 It was crouching down, and I don't know if I can do this without going off camera here, but it was like this. Yeah. Up against... Right here. Up against the wall. I'll put that picture in the corner. Okay, that's exactly right.

Starting point is 00:33:24 So it's crouching down, and Liliani, who's in the front, who's 16 years old, shrieked when she realized it looked like some kind of weird creature. She makes a gasp, audible, loud, and the creature turns its head and looks them straight in the eye Liliani grabs her younger sister Valkyria by the hand and hightails it out of their screaming but they got eye contact with it from about eight to ten feet away and she just now she's like she thinks she sees the devil she doesn't know what the hell this thing is and how did they describe the eyes? Well, I'll get to that in a second.

Starting point is 00:34:07 Okay. So they hightail it out, Liliani and her sister, Valkyria, and they're running, screaming and running. They get about 100 feet down the path, and they realize Katya's still there. And Liliani turns back and sees Katya frozen in her tracks, staring at this thing, just locking eyes on it. She runs back, she's like, I gotta go help Katya. So she runs back, leaves her sister Katya, and runs back to grab, sorry, leaves her sister Valkyria, runs back and grabs Katya, grabs her by the hand,

Starting point is 00:34:39 and yanks her out of there. And what was, did Katya say what she was doing during that time? So check it out. So I was... Did Katya say what she was doing during that time? So check it out. So I was like, oh my gosh. Like, they all got face to face with this thing within eight to ten feet away, but Katya had a prolonged face to face with her.

Starting point is 00:34:55 So I said to her... -"Put me there." -"Yeah." This was like your best moment in the documentary. -"Put me there." -"Bright." During that moment of contact, in other words, and I thought to myself, okay, I'm gonna revisit that title, I think I like it. During that moment of contact, when you locked eyes

Starting point is 00:35:12 on this creature, this being, this thing, was there any level of communication? Did you feel anything? And that's when she said, help me, I'm in distress. I'm feeble, I'm weak, I'm suffering, help me. Did she hear a voice or was it like a weird question to ask? Because of the language barrier, maybe I didn't get that level of...

Starting point is 00:35:41 Because I said to her, did you feel any communication? Well, there was no verbal communication. There was no vocal communication so it's either done with images or it was done because what's here's another thing in that underscores how amazing the content you did get was yeah this entire documentary you're working through interpreters none of these people speak english yes so you are you don't know which words correspond with which so their body language you're trying to read like what draws the most emotion it's not like you're hearing it in english and we hear someone say the word alien and we can see their face right at that instant second and you're and you're dealing with

Starting point is 00:36:18 you know 30 60 seconds of talking 30 60 seconds, you giving back, the same thing coming back around to them. So there's like this time in between and you're trying to cover all these details to get every possible thing filled in. So there's got to, my point is, even for you, there has to be some things like what I just asked that like didn't get addressed or out there. So one thing about me is that I have to have some level of community I speak fluent French and I speak a little Spanish and like a give me an example when I was going to Russia to do out of the when I was working out of the blue I

Starting point is 00:36:55 was learning Russian on the airplane basic expressions yes no yay nay Just like getting little, you know... No. Jim walks off the airplane. He walks, James walks off the airplane. Yeah. Yeah, anyway. And I cannot stand not being able to communicate. It's like so important to me.

Starting point is 00:37:28 So when I was in the field listening to Portuguese in Brazil, I was slowing time down with my brain. I know it sounds weird, but I was focusing so hard. I was trying harder than I've ever tried. I would try to slow time down a little bit, and I would slow the words down, and then I would take the Latin root, you know, like, oh, this sounds like the French one of this.

Starting point is 00:37:49 Okay, I got a word there, terra, I got this, you know. And I was taking, probably catching one every five words, maybe, slowing it down because things are going really quickly. This didn't always happen, but I wanted to understand so badly what was being said, man. You have no idea, like, how bad I wanted to understand. Oh, I do. There's a lot of meme-able moments of is doing this documentary it's incredible laser-like focus and then half the time after a couple of weeks i would translate the vast majority of what was just said in the field and the translator would go yeah that's you're really like wow you're understanding i was like i was understanding more and more every day

Starting point is 00:38:27 Obviously speaking is different you'll start to understand You know first and then the speaking comes later, but in any case, but yeah That was certainly an element of difficulty and another layer that I had to deal with in the field and No Buddy I would say well actually know that, the female interpreter, she was bilingual. No question about that. She was bilingual, yeah. Marco, not so much.

Starting point is 00:38:49 He's pretty good, but not bilingual. Being bilingual is what it takes. What do you mean Marco wasn't bilingual? There's fluent and then there's bilingual. Fluent is when you can communicate primarily what you're thinking. Right, yeah, but he wasn't Portuguese? He's bilingual in the sense that you can speak English just as well as you speak Portuguese. You can speak Portuguese just as well as...

Starting point is 00:39:11 There's no... It's seamless transition. I thought he was from there. He is from there. But he's not... His English isn't that great. Oh, okay. Now I see.

Starting point is 00:39:18 Okay. Yeah, sorry. I was looking at the other one. Yeah, no, he's fully Brazilian. Sorry, I didn't clarify that well enough for you so uh but in any case um you know uh and when you want to know about something that bad enough i don't know you the brain has an uncanny ability to do amazing things yeah and they i i had asked this a few minutes ago but you were going through it and i want to come back to it with with the eyes because well who was the one katya was

Starting point is 00:39:46 the one who was left behind yes she was 21 years old so she had the prolonged contact and she had the potentially telepathic content yes or contact here they all felt that it was non-threatening it was suffering from the heat it was suffering from exposure to the elements and that it wanted help they all none of them felt threatened by it they were scared of the unknown two of them ran totally they thought it was the devil but they didn't feel threatened i said because they're religious yeah they're religious highly religious that was the devil the devil and uh but they didn't know they never thought this is an et never but they all described in the picture, once again, I'll put it in the corners from the documentary as well.

Starting point is 00:40:26 They all described this figure with big red eyes. And in a creepy way, the same way you see the kids from Zimbabwe and the phenomenon from 94 on the John Mack tapes describing the eyes, they say like three, four times the size. And you've heard some of the other cases where they say three four times the size they such a similar creature that's what these girls describe except for once yeah and this is what i don't know if you caught this but we we were we were looking at this a couple days ago and i think it was katya because she was the older one she at one point was it katya or was it the other one who said slits oh she was talking about the mouth slit for a mouth no she said but did she fuck up because you might have fucked up but she definitely meant mouth no questions I

Starting point is 00:41:16 about the mouth I have heard the mouth was like you could barely see it was like a slit and I have they all said big eyes I have heard people in your other cases described the mouth as a slit yes but she said and then the eyes like slits Right and so I did that was the one time where I heard a a contradiction there Yeah, I had him all draw out. They all drew it out. So she she must have she must have misstepped Okay, definitely because she was referring to the mouth was this because ass is it did I have a mouth there? They all said it was like you didn't really see it was like a slit like it was not even it was non it was a non but before we before we get to the second layer though of the mom coming because

Starting point is 00:41:55 that was when it got really compelling and i want to i want to go there just to recount here you had said this was a week after carlos sosa allegedly saw January 20th. So he was you talked about it He was visited and everything but after he gets the visits like that day and the day after Is he just chillin for a week and there's no creature sightings reported yet. He never thinks alien. He never thought UFO alien never he thought he witnessed a government Super secret craft he didn't see any aliens he didn't think alien but then when he heard about the beans that the girls described he was like holy shit that must have been connected to the ufo i saw crash that thing i saw so he gets in touch with a guy named claudio covo

Starting point is 00:42:38 who's a very well respected brazilian u researcher. He's also an engineer architect. And he gives one on-camera statement in 1996. Excuse me, right after it happened. Late January. Yeah, right around there. Right after this whole thing happened, he got in touch. There were other truck drivers that had come forward as well that were on camera, but I couldn't get my hands on that footage. But in any case, his daughter, Cynthia Covo,

Starting point is 00:43:09 was present during the interview, you know, 26 years ago with Carlos de Sousa and her father, Claudio Covo. And he does one on-camera statement, and then he vanishes for 26 years. I, with the help of Marco, obviously, get in touch. Claudio Covo has since deceased. His daughter has all the archives, including the original drawings,

Starting point is 00:43:32 the taped interview with Carlos Sousa, whatever else he had, photographs and things of that nature. She shares it all with us, and she says, I'm now a psychologist. I met Carlos right after he saw that, within weeks. He met with my father. He was trembling and scared. He was smoking cigarette after cigarette after cigarette.

Starting point is 00:43:53 And she's like, there's no question. This is before I met Carlos de Sousa. I'd seen one horribly shot, grainy ass, terribly broken up vhs whatever we managed to get the original taped interview from claudia covo thank god and uh and she said i'm a psychologist now no question this guy's telling the truth marco had found him persuaded him over about a year period to come forward he did he met with us and um and then i said i want to take him out to the site for the first time in 26 years and let's show that real quick because this is this is something you even had a preview of it in the trailer that when you first put it

Starting point is 00:44:34 out before the couple months before the documentary but when we talk about all these instances on on the last podcast when we talked about him and when we talk about this in general and like You know do people really believe or are they bullshitting and you know, there's always some horrible shitting But like, you know, this guy believes what he saw because this is this was like You said I'm just gonna let the clip play so people can see us I took on this took a long time to find the spot All right, I was actually on the verge of give wanting to give up i'm not i wasn't going to give up but i was like let's grab it you know but yeah we got to do it man we got to find

Starting point is 00:45:12 this spot we've been looking for probably nearly an hour at this point down there yeah there's a house right down through these trees yeah look taking out the drone closer to there then let's drive down the road let's drive down to get closer there's a house okay this is a white house yes yes yes that's um Aki, kiyo. Aki, kiyo. Aki, kiyo. Aki, aki. We flew a drone directly over the spot. Looking straight down, you look at the difference in landscape. You can see his mind, like as if you were... Watch his eyes. Just sit tight and watch his eyes.

Starting point is 00:46:04 Aki, oof. Aki, oof. see his mind like as if he were watch his eyes what just sit tight watch his eyes wow After this. Look at his eyes right here. See, we'll pan around him in a second. You can see he's like reliving it right here. Phenomenal camera work, by the way. Hope you gave that guy a bonus yeah see how the landscape looks different that whole area looks like well it's just weird particularly with the directly overhead shot oh Aqui, ó.

Starting point is 00:47:37 A cerca da casa era aquela. This is the spot. I'll cut it right there. That is some fucking unbelievable footage right there. I mean, as a viewer who's not there, if you can't feel it, I can't really help you. I mean, that's like... Dave West is a seasoned director of photography. He's worked with National Geographic. He's worked with presidents in the White House. That was one of the top three moments of...

Starting point is 00:48:04 He goes, if that guy's lying He deserves you don't need Brad Pitt or Leonardo DiCaprio Actor of all time. Yeah, this guy's yeah I mean the way just kept saying I keep like you you can see his brain like processing like, you know like someone who Has to go back to like like someone who's suffering from PTSD has to go back to the place where their buddy died or something like that. It's the same. That was when I was talking

Starting point is 00:48:30 to you earlier about Travis Walton, Fire in the Sky 1975, Snowflake, Arizona. And when we went back to the site after years, he'd been there. And we did some, it's a whole other story, but we cut trees direct proximity to the UFO and that was one of the reasons why he took Travis.

Starting point is 00:48:46 But I saw that same reaction where their eyes are open, and yet you could see, you could almost pass your hand in front of them that they had a film strip in their mind. They were reliving that scene. Do you know what I mean? Like, you could just see it. Like, they're not, they're somewhere else.

Starting point is 00:49:03 Pretty intense. And it just, you know, for someone who had looked at this case originally and thought that this might be bullshit. And then to kind of get yourself to a spot 13 years later to hear about it again and be like, I don't want to look at it. And then you spend two, three years really looking and you're like, oh, my God. Then you have that moment where the guy's like, it happened. And you're like, holy shit. And then you're trying to finish this whole phenomenon you get that done and now you're like all right i'm going down to do it you know you don't know that you're going to get that when when people when people go to make these documentaries like think about

Starting point is 00:49:37 what's a good all-timer like the the documentary inside job from 2009 about the financial crisis you ain't gonna get it if you don't try. Well, sure. But I'm saying, like, those guys, they knew how the movie ended. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. You don't know. You might go down there and you might not get what you need.

Starting point is 00:49:54 Crash and burn. We can't do it. Easily could have crashed and burned. But you got it. Yeah. You know, and military acts. We'll get there. Yeah, because I'll tell you how close we came to not getting that one.

Starting point is 00:50:07 But let's stay with these two, because now I think we have so, so well covered here. We talked about the three daughters. The second layer that I had mentioned was the mother who then you have come by. So she was the mother of two of them, right? Liliani and Valkyria. Okay, so the two younger ones. Yes. So she describes her two daughters.

Starting point is 00:50:29 And Katya showing up at the house screaming. So after they had gone back and gotten Katya. Yeah. They come back and they're. Screaming. Horrified. Horrified. And she says.

Starting point is 00:50:37 We saw the devil. Take me there. Yes. And then what happens? The Liliani and Valkyria, who's 14 and 16, said there's no way we're going back. So then she grabs Katya, who's 21, and she's begging and pleading Katya. Katya says, I don't want to go, I don't want to go. And she finally talks her into it.

Starting point is 00:50:54 So she leaves Valkyria and Liliani, who refuse to go back. And she goes, jumps in their truck, and they drive a few blocks away and get to the location. At which point, the mother describes this smell like ammonia and sulfur, the same smell that Carlos de Sousa describes. Everyone describes this. It's so powerful. They said, if you've ever smelled a skunk at close range, multiply that by a thousand. It's almost paralyzing. That's what they all said.

Starting point is 00:51:25 And it's stuck in your nasal cavity, sometimes for days or even weeks. And she said she put rubbing alcohol, I think she was doing like vinegar and rubbing, just trying to get it out of there. And so she's met with that. The creature's gone, but the footprint, there's a footprint exactly where the girl said it was, in the sand. And then she draws the footprint for us, which a lot of the witnesses described this. So if the foot, and these things were bipedal. Let's just say it was like that, and it had this other digit on the side. So when it's standing up, that stabilizes it. Because if you've got two, you're not going to walk very well, but it's got this other digit on the side so when it's standing up that stabilizes it because if you got two

Starting point is 00:52:06 you're not going to walk very well but it's got this other digit on the side apparently and that would be the imprint in the sand would have been that's what everyone is sorry i want you to do that for the camera clearly do that with your thumb again yeah so people can see exactly what it is like another digit coming out the side to sort of stabilize it for walking which would say it's three yeah because you're you're at you're i love this you're going to a major question i had about this film because like you were saying with the smell it's amazing when you hear all these different people and in other cases by the way talk about sulfur ammonia like this what they can't get it out for for days and shit like that everyone's describing it the same a lot of people

Starting point is 00:52:42 are describing the eyes the same a lot of people are describing the size the same it's childlike or whatever big head spindly arms feeble yeah so with this one where you have the foot we're going to get to military x i don't want to give the full context there yet people will get that later but there's another great witness this guy military x that you have later in the documentary yes who very specifically as you point out when he goes to describe the foot very clearly says two yeah digits but he's doing as you just did he's doing this with his thumb and i watched you in the hotel room mirroring his thumb and doing this as well you didn't say anything but he was specific you had the camera dead on his hand and i'm going he's saying two but it's really three and I think

Starting point is 00:53:25 In his mind he's thinking those are toes and this is something else like an appendage Yeah It's almost like a little sight look if you look at it like a chicken doesn't a chicken have that like it has a little Appendage that comes out on the side. So the mother yes describes three Yeah But I'm gonna play the scene right now because you have the mom draw it and she drew this fucking thing so quickly a matter of factly i mean it's like holy shit you know did you do like 10 takes with her for that no no no i know and you know what i had to ask nothing nothing in this film was staged this

Starting point is 00:53:55 all happened as it happened in fact i remember the dp dave saying slow down i can't keep up i was like look these things are happening i'm not going to recreate you know you got to just capture it as it happens all right so this is the part where you do this. Let's play it at 4512 in the documentary. Do they get in the car and drive here? Do they walk here? How did they get here? And what did they see when they got here?

Starting point is 00:54:22 She's saying, please go with me. Then I got in the truck and we parked the truck here. I'll translate. And now the mom's talking. Then we saw the creature and we saw the creature's footprint. I'll never forget it. By this sun, I'll never forget it. Only three fingertips.

Starting point is 00:54:37 So she says three. A footprint like this. It was loose red dirt, so it was like this. And she's like doing it so now you give her the thing, draw the footprint she leans down you gave her a table and they say please draw it exactly as it was

Starting point is 00:54:56 she goes I only saw the trail by the left foot I didn't see anything else, watch how quickly boom around boom see how small that is, that's what i want to point out now look the middle is huge and the last one's big is she describing the appendage similarly or was that a slip of a shitty artist where she draws it big and now she's talking about the smell so i'll cut

Starting point is 00:55:22 it there we already talked about that but is she that's what i wanted to know because she drew it naturally and it's like i'm a shitty artist too i'd have done the same thing where you can't draw everything in perfect like uh symmetry or was that literally like she was drawing it similarly to what he said where one's small so think of it this way it's bipedal we know that right right How hard would it be to walk on this as opposed to this? You have a side appendage coming out like this. Exactly. That's what's his name. So that's what we've all speculated.

Starting point is 00:55:54 We don't have a photograph of the foot, so we can't say for sure. But according to the eyewitness testimony, that makes the most sense. And that's what's his name. It's almost like two. He said almost like two appendages. But he's doing this. Yeah, he's doing that. Yeah Yeah, that so what we'll get to him to get all the context But okay that does for me that clears that up because it was really compelling

Starting point is 00:56:16 Like how just boom boom boom boom boom she was with that and you were standing right there for this, right? Now how much and I'll ask you this to decide alessi because we got the director over here let's remove the bias how much of when you saw the final cut to this obviously you guys are are filming i mean maybe even close to 100 hours whatever it was over this month here easily yeah when you saw the final cut of this was this how you saw it happen live was it very representative of that yeah identical it's one of those things it was one of those things where when you were in person i always say this is just like yes the documentary does such a good job but when you're in person it's just riveting you're just like oh my god like they're actually drawing to this and i'm like

Starting point is 00:57:00 what the heck and these people day to day are just normal people and it's like if they're all actors or all paid oscar winners whatever they are phenomenally doing a great job in day-to-day life doing this and they're not tracking us down we're tracking them down and begging them to come forward yeah it's wild yeah yeah so that was so she says that and then she goes through what we talked about with that with the smell and she couldn't get it out and i guess it sounds like she pretty much concluded right away, you know, you didn't see the devil. He's awesome. You know, this is some other world of shit. So I think that's why Carlos de Sousa felt compelled to come forward and share his aspect of the incident, because he was like, holy shit, maybe those girls, what they saw was connected to what I saw. Maybe the reason why those men in suits came up and they were so adamantly scaring me

Starting point is 00:57:51 not to ever talk about this. And I was at gunpoint. Maybe that was otherworldly what I saw. And that's why the excessive secrecy and that's why the life threats and that's why the men in the black suits. And that's what the girls saw the creatures got to be connected he felt compelled to give his testimony one time and that's when he met with claudia claudia govo yeah and did that one you know so i was like i told marco i was like i know this guy's been gone for a quarter of a century but his testimony is mandatory like we've got to find we don't have a film we don't find this guy and so we have we we do have the two farmers yuriko and oralina the fretas the white house were they living in the white house there no but they were they were they got woken up by their cows at night cows and horses

Starting point is 00:58:49 Stampeding around like two in the morning and they saw a cigar shaped thing with a oh, right Yeah, so but but Carlos saw this thing hit the ground and came to the crash site now Can you I forget I forgot that go ahead. Sorry one thing I don't know why I didn't overrule what how I got talked out of this We went in 2013 and found the farm hand at the maialini farm and he talked about the neighbors hearing the boom the impact of the boom and he talked about the owner of the farm confirming to him that the the the neighbors all heard this thing crash it made a boom when it hit, yeah, and we have him on camera He didn't want to be filmed but I had the cameras rolling and I have it and I think maybe that's why they talked to

Starting point is 00:59:32 Me how to using it, but I have the farmhand at my loony farm in 2013 describing that the owner of the farm had heard from the neighbors that they all heard it a big boom on in January the farm had heard from the neighbors that they all heard it a big boom on on in january uh 1996. now can you i should release that i should put that out there you should yeah i think you should put all this out there yeah i've been watch the out of it i know a lot of people will make you a lot of money and get you a extra house anyway but did you when he's pointing to this and going key key key i'm not i'm the farthest thing from a scientist so i don't even know how some of the sediment would work here but i do hear all the

Starting point is 01:00:11 time about people who are digging up and testing stuff thousands of years ago and because stuff stays in the soil i gotta think something did unless there was a full-blown thing to where the government went in and replate like uprooted the whole earth like is there any way to test that ground right there for certain material so i got contacted by a number of geologists since this film's come out um i was wondering if you could scroll to the crash site there's an overhead shot this is rarely ever talked about nobody's crash site i've had one person out of all the people that have seen the movie bring this up to me. Everybody else misses it. I picked it up, not in the field so much that day, maybe a little bit,

Starting point is 01:00:50 but when I saw the overhead drone shot of the alleged impact crash site, the landscape and earth looked different than everything immediately around it. And so I was like, let's see if you can see it. It's the drone shot directly drone shot was it during when he was crying after the crying it was after the crime okay so the crying ends right there so it just you'll see there we go there we go can you blow that up yeah yeah because i want you your audience to take a look at the landscape and i want you to see let me go back 10 seconds there's the illustration of the craft.

Starting point is 01:01:28 So that's the illustration of what it looked like upon crash. Yeah, cigar-shaped. That's a hell of an illustration. There's that White House, and it was hidden by that bank of trees. That's why you didn't see that White House. Right. All right. Okay, now tell me when to pause. I'll tell you when.

Starting point is 01:01:42 All right, go ahead and pause right there. And then let it take your cursor off the screen so it goes back to, yeah, I was going to say. Yeah, they'll see it. All right, here we go. So look at all this. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. He talked about an acid on the ground, like a liquid acid that burned everything.

Starting point is 01:02:04 I was like, was it a fire or was it? Why would they leave leave it that's what I'm wondering why no, but nothing's growing there The soil looks tampered with it looks different. You know, it just looks different look And I picked that up from the drone. I never saw it from the ground I wouldn't notice but if you look at it from the sky and that's the crash site according to Carlos and according to military acts Oh god damn it. Now They're gonna go dig it up Like cinnamon it yeah, so it looks different. I mean look man. They say a picture's worth a thousand words I mean take a look at that and tell me what you see because it looks different doesn't it look different Oh, yeah, and there could be other explanations, but like, you know as a layman looking at this first glance holy i mean yeah that's that's wild yeah it's wild all right i mean that's so you've had

Starting point is 01:02:51 geologists hit you up though well yes so i yes so so i went out to roswell uh i went out to the debris field in roswell with a geologist i'll think of his name in a minute. And he said to me, I'm a geologist. I don't care how well anyone cleans up a mess at a site, an alleged impact site. I don't give a shit how good you think you are. You could be on your hands and knees, back to back, shoulder to shoulder, go through there, bulldoze it, burn it. There's going to be debris left there, period. Look at ant mounds, moles, you know, areas of runoff from the rain, like things get carried, little bits of metal. Like I did not scour.

Starting point is 01:03:40 I was under a shooting schedule. I really think someone, yeah, I've heard people say they want to go to the crash site with metal detectors with you know geologists and and see what they can find so uh you know if someone's willing to put in the time and go there I think it absolutely should be done absolutely you might need you know permission to go on the guy's farm i don't know it's you know to be out there for months at a time i don't know well as i'm sure we could figure that out someone could pay somebody off but yeah as as a side note here because we had talked about it in the last podcast but not gone there what was the thing in the phenomenon that you had the Stanford doctor he was with Jacques Vallee yeah and he was testing the isotopes they brought up what was that from again ubatuba 1957

Starting point is 01:04:35 South America and Brazil and what so is a UFO crash site alleged UFO crash or a landing site where the crash was a crash Yeah, it was like an explosion and crash. Yeah, okay And so they were testing something with the isotopes and whatever the fuck Yeah, what are you doing? What did they find in there without you know going like too complicated? Like what did they find to be able to say like oh this is not a part of our element So I'm gonna do a little bit something to do with magnesium isotopes that were a certain ratio that was not found on earth if you if you could create it it would be in the billions of

Starting point is 01:05:10 dollars and it was 1987 so got it yeah so basically like that i'm just giving you a rudimentary here i'm not a scientist yeah that's good that's good so we it would be cool if we could do something like that here anyway but we've so we've covered it's a great idea i think there there there are other people that right now today are are are doing background research on this case with the documentation that we do have for instance the death certificate from the guy that captured the one of the creatures which i know we haven't gotten to yet so we're we're gonna get yeah, who was the guy who you featured in the film who died in 2014?

Starting point is 01:05:48 He was a doctor and a famous UFO-ologist. Dr. Roger Lear. And he had investigated this for years and even done some, not with the people you got, but he had done some interviews, right? He went there in 2002. At the time, there was a very famous researcher by the name of Uba Dejada Rodriguez.

Starting point is 01:06:06 He's also a lawyer. He's one of the top lawyers in the whole district of Virginia and the state of Minas Gerais. And Uba Dejada Rodriguez wrote the book on it. He was super smart, man. He was in debates with skeptics, and he would just annihilate everybody. He was super smart on the case. He had very deep contacts. He was working with a guy named Victor Peccacini,

Starting point is 01:06:26 who's also a bright guy. Peccacini. Done a lot of research on this. And Uba Najara had not yet gone quiet on the case because now he won't talk to anybody. And that happened, I think, gosh, guys, I want to say 2005 or 2006, something like he got a visit from tommy lee jones i'm sure he did and so he went quite he agreed to meet me for coffee and then he said no i can't do

Starting point is 01:06:52 it i was like dude we're gonna meet for coffee i'm not gonna put you on camera like come on man like wouldn't do it so um uh sorry where was i because i was talking about Uba Dejara. Hit me the question. Sorry. As far as what I wanted you going into next? Yes. The guy, Roger Lear. Oh, yeah. The guy who was doing the interview.

Starting point is 01:07:12 So sorry. No, you're good. You're doing great. So Roger Lear finds out in 2014 that I was covering, or 2013, that I was covering the Virginia case. And he was desperately, I was in Los Angeles, he was in Los Angeles. And Roger Lear was like, I got to get, you know, I'm kicking myself. This is the guy that died. One of my biggest regrets on this case.

Starting point is 01:07:36 So Roger Lear doesn't tell me, hey, I've got cancer and I'm dying. He's just like, well, that's his fault. There are very few things that you can be certain of in life but you can always be sure the sun will rise each morning you can bet your bottom dollar that you'll always need air to breathe and water to drink and of course you can rest assured that with Public Mobile's 5G

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Starting point is 01:08:40 Benjamin Moore. See the love. Yeah, I would have made it a top priority, and I was trying to, but I was organizing all the flights for the Rua Zimbabwe UFO landing in 1994. I was doing that, and I was doing other interviews as well in Los Angeles, and I'd rented this big house, and I had camera crews, and all this stuff was happening. And my focus was also on Virginia, but not at that exact time exact time and I had very busy shooting schedule. My voice was gone. I was like working so hard You're in debt. I was always totally in debt. I had a guy named Larry for shell at the time

Starting point is 01:09:15 It was who was funny and stuff. So but it was anyway And and all the while this is going on and Roger Lear's like, you know Gotta get me in an interview. Gotta get me an you know gotta get me an interview gotta get me an interview gotta get me an interview i know this case he didn't say to me i went there in 2002 and i had unprecedented access with uber jara and all this other shit that went down and i wrote the book you know he didn't say all these things to me i was just like and then he got upset and i was like i was a weird i said dr lear please don't you know don't take this personally i'm so i'm so busy he goes i'll be there if you're not going to be with me Take my tapes

Starting point is 01:09:46 I was like oh okay I went there in 2002 and I got all these tapes Take them I was like okay I took the tapes I made them all I copied them all It was shot on mini DV

Starting point is 01:10:00 It was probably high 8 I didn't realize he gave them to you back then. He did. He gave them to me in 2013. No question it was 2013. Gives me the tapes. I make copies and I send them back to him and he dies like a week later. And I was

Starting point is 01:10:18 like, shit, you know. And then I'm reading. So, you know, move forward in time. I'm trying to get Ubudajara Rodriguez. I'm trying to find Pacaccini. Pacaccini's one of the UFO researchers. Claudio Covo's dead. Carlos

Starting point is 01:10:34 de Souza, the UFO crash witness, he's gone. Nobody can find him. Pacaccini's vanished. Ubudajara's done a 180. He won't talk to anybody. I'm like, Jesus! Like, what? You know, we're trying to dig into this case, and we're just hitting, like, you know, dead ends. So I'm like, whoa, I've got Dr. Roger Lear's tapes.

Starting point is 01:10:53 I forgot about that. So I whipped those puppies out in, like, 2020 or 2021. No, 2021. Maybe 2022, but 2021. Was it before or after you went there? I think it was after. But I knew I'd had them, and I'd spot-checked them, but I kind of forgot.

Starting point is 01:11:10 I was like, I got his tapes. And there he is in Virginia in 2002, and he's working directly hand-in-hand with Ubud Azhar. And Ubud Azhar is fully transparent. I mean, he's all in in 2002. This is what happened. This is where the military recovered. This is where the capture happened.

Starting point is 01:11:31 This is where the girls saw it. And he's introducing them to the girls. He's introducing them to the military officer, Marco Chirisi, who died after allegedly capturing one of these things. They're next. He's got it all on tape. I'm like, oh, my God. Then I find out that he'd written a book, too.

Starting point is 01:11:46 So I get this book. This kills me. I get the book. In the book, I've got the tapes. So the book is a direct transcript of all the interviews that he'd done, basically. He just extracted the interviews that he'd done on camera and put them in the book. Then he mentions in the book, about three quarters of the way through, that he has this meeting with Uba Dejara and a couple of doctors from Humanitas Hospital that he wasn't allowed to record on camera. He couldn't bring any of his recording devices in

Starting point is 01:12:30 there. This was off the... Well, see, maybe it wasn't off the record, but no recording devices. And they had to be, like, anonymous. So he meets these two doctors. Now, I know that his book is accurate because I've got the tapes of the interviews and all the people that he met with and translations and all that stuff. Uba Dejara've got the tapes of the interviews and all the people that he met with and translations and all that stuff. Uba Dajara's got his son there who's bilingual, and his son is doing, like, in-the-field translation immediately.

Starting point is 01:12:53 He's so bilingual, like, the guy's perfect. Fluid, totally, like, seamless. Yeah, that was the dude on the light side. Seamless. And in the book, Uba Dajara, who won't talk to me, who won't talk to anybody anymore, Ubud-Azhar takes him to meet these two doctors that were at Humanitas Hospital, okay? Now I know the history with Humanitas Hospital and the fact that the creatures ended up there

Starting point is 01:13:20 and blah, blah, blah. So I'm pretty sure, I'm feeling very confident that if he says Humanitas Hospital, that I know that the creatures at one point, I'm not sure how long, but they were there. So, and one of them was captured alive, because I know that too. He claims in his book that he meets with these two doctors that had worked on one of the creatures in the hospital, and that, I didn't put any of this in the movie because I don't have anybody's testimony other than a book. That's it. I can tell you,

Starting point is 01:13:53 and you guys can take it with a grain of salt. You can believe it, you can not believe it. No, that works. That's perfect. Yeah. So according to these doctors, that Dr. Roger Lear accounts in his book, these two doctors, during a procedure, the creature had a

Starting point is 01:14:08 wound somewhere, they were trying to fix it, do something, a leg, broken leg, something. And all of a sudden, the creature kind of comes more to life. It was alive, but it kind of comes to life and it communicates with the two doctors telepathically. And again, this is according to Dr. Roger Lear's book. Dr. Roger Lear heard the account directly from the two doctors at Humanitas Hospital who were there and experienced this. His word against everybody. Yeah, exactly. And he's dead.

Starting point is 01:14:43 And there was another guy in the room. There was a guy that traveled with Dr. Roger Lear, and I tracked him down, and he had just died, so I didn't get his testimony. He was also in the room. So the only person left in the room is Ubud-Ujara, the two doctors, which I have no idea where they are, and Ubud-Ujara's son, and Ubud-Ujara won't talk to me. And apparently the telepathic communication was,

Starting point is 01:15:04 I feel sorry for you humans. You have no idea about your potential, who you really are. Yeah. That's what it said. According to the book and Dr. Roger Lear and the doctors. Yeah. So I was like, I contacted people that knew Dr. Roger Lear. They said he doesn't make stuff up, that he was a solid witness. I said, look, I can vouch for the whole book except for that because I don't have those tapes. Well, again, good of you to not put that in the documentary because that's a heavy thing and you can't do your full proving. I can't prove it. Yeah. Couldn't prove it, so I left it out.

Starting point is 01:15:37 That's wild. Yeah. If I would have gotten testimony from someone who heard it out of the doctor's mouth, I might have considered putting it in. But I couldn't. Roger Lear was dead. The other doctor that was with him was dead. It was on the tapes. The two of them were having a good time.

Starting point is 01:15:49 They were admiring the food and the coffee and the beautiful women of Brazil. They were having a great time. It was like a road trip. They were having a fun time, the two of them, traveling together and meeting with Uberajara and then meeting with the witnesses. And it was so nice having that translator, the two of them traveling together and meeting with Ubarajara and then meeting with the witnesses. And it was so nice having that translator in the field with them

Starting point is 01:16:09 because all the videotaped stuff, I could instantly know what was being said because the guy just did, you know, on the fly translation. And maybe I'm getting my brain mixed up right now because there's a lot floating in there about this. But did this situation involve a total of two creatures, one dead and one alive? Maybe more. Maybe more, but there were at least two.

Starting point is 01:16:32 No question. Okay. But we think up to five. But we don't know. Because we covered already the girls who saw the alive one in the abandoned field in the town against the wall. And now we're going to get to Marco Cherezi. Yes. And before we do that, we got to get you an Uber because you have a flight to catch.

Starting point is 01:16:54 So everybody go like and subscribe if you haven't already. And we're going to stop for a second, get you taken care of, and then you and I are going to finish the second half of this case. Roger that. So we'll be back right after this all right we are back on so marco cherezi that was where we were going next before we get into exactly what he did who was he okay so marco cherezi was a military officer uh based in the town of virginia and military police, I say military police officer because the police and the fire department in Brazil

Starting point is 01:17:30 are connected to the military. So if you're in the fire department, you're part of the military. Really? So it's like a military police, I guess they call it military police. So if you're in the police department, you're part of the military, it's all connected.

Starting point is 01:17:44 And he'd grown up in virginia along with his buddy eric lopes who's also military police in virginia get to him okay so charazy is the one guy like i mentioned you had roughly like six degrees of real separation with this across the different witnesses it was somewhere in that neighborhood but charazy is the one guy who you had to interview his family because he died in 1996 right after this so let's get into what happened he was this is a part of the military and then this day yeah so this is is one of the sadder aspects of this story, and I don't think it was anything like evil or anything like that. But reportedly what happened was you had the girls,

Starting point is 01:18:40 January 20th, 3 o'clock, 1996, in the afternoon, and you saw where they came in contact, according to them, with an unknown creature that you showed earlier in the podcast, okay? Yeah. So I flew the drone over every area, any place of interest, any witness, I would always fly the drone over the top so you can get a perspective from the air of where these events happened. For the first time, we put together, and I've talked to this with the Brazilian researchers that I worked with, nobody realized the proximity between military blockades, girls encounter,

Starting point is 01:19:23 Marco Chirisi, military police officer, who's driving around with Eric Lopes about 5 to 5.30 on the same day, two and a half hours after the girls saw what they saw-ish. And apparently, Eric Lopes was on duty. His really good buddy, Marco Chirisi, was not on duty. Eric Lopes had a special mission of being on the lookout for something incredibly unusual. He was not told there's an alien on the loose or anything like that. Be on the lookout for something unusual. And it's a special operation.

Starting point is 01:19:59 Excuse me while I have a sip of this coffee. So... Yeah, we reloaded you downstairs. Gotta keep you awake. Yeah. So great. So... sip of this coffee so yeah we reloaded you downstairs gotta keep you awake yeah so great so um he goes by his buddy marco teresa's house and he says hey who's who's married and i think his wife was even pregnant and he says hey i got the special mission blah blah blah you're on the lookout for something unusual do you want to come with me and he he says, sure. And he jumps in the passenger seat and off they go. Well, they're driving down a road, which is just a couple of blocks away from where the girls saw this creature reportedly. And this strange looking creature scurries across the road right in front of their car. It was exactly the same description as what the girls had seen

Starting point is 01:20:47 eric lopes the driver screeches on his brakes marco shrizi leaps out without a moment's hesitation chases this thing down doesn't put up hardly any bit of a fight captures it with his bare hands and carries it back and apparently puts it on his lap in the back seat and they drive it to a clinic. They get to the clinic. They have no idea what this thing is. They get to a clinic and it smells and it's oily and brown skin. And apparently the doctor at the clinic was like, well, I don't know what the hell that thing is. Get it out of here.

Starting point is 01:21:19 I want nothing to do with any of this. So they ended up at a regional hospital and then ultimately a humanitas hospital a couple days later that day uh apparently marco schweizy's got this oily smelly oil grease stuff all over his body and smells and it's just irritating on your sulfur kind of yeah it's just and it's he apparently got rubbing alcohol and he's just irritating. That ammonia sulfur kind of thing. Yeah, and it's just, and he apparently got rubbing alcohol and he's rubbing his body down with rubbing alcohol and trying to get that smell, that greasy, oily smell off of him.

Starting point is 01:21:52 And he's not like, he's not like apoplectic or not apoplectic. He's not like in total shock that he just picked up a fucking alien? Who knows, man? Who knows? I mean, I've got limited. Yeah, we've got limited information from his sister and fellow researchers. But getting back to, he, after a couple of weeks, starts having immune system issues.

Starting point is 01:22:17 And, oh, by the way, he got a cut, a little gash. Not a big one, but apparently during the capture, just a little scratch, like right under his arm, right in here somewhere. Was this at night that he captured the creature? Captured it in the late afternoon, early evening, 5.30, 6 o'clock. So it's not dark? No, not totally dark. Now he gets, I want to go back to that real quick,

Starting point is 01:22:39 just so that everyone out there can understand. January is summer in Brazil. Okay, so he gets out of the... Eric Lopes is driving. Yes. Carresi's in the car. Yes. He sees this creature and goes, stop.

Starting point is 01:22:52 Runs out. They both did. It ran right across the road in front of him. Right in front of the car. And was it trying to run away? Yes. And he was just... Because it's small and he was a lot faster.

Starting point is 01:23:01 Yep. No question. Barely put up a fight. Barely put up a fight. And he put it in his hands and was it flailing around? Grab question did barely put up a fight barely put up a fight and he put in his hands and was it like flailing around or grabbed it put it on his lap that's all the details i have and then he got a scratch in the process okay so it was fighting small scratch yeah small scratch okay so um apparently he he uh takes himself to the hospital. His family's notified, his mother and his sister. His sister goes in, Marta Tavares, T-A-V-A-R-E-S, Marta Tavares. And meanwhile, these stories are

Starting point is 01:23:37 exploding. What the girls saw, there's information getting out about the crash of the cigar-shaped UFO. I mean, it's spreading like wildfire across Brazil, across different parts of the world. Media frenzy. There's all these people asking Cesar. He's in the hospital, and I guess he says to her, like, you know, find out what's going on. I feel okay, but my immune system and the doctors, like, we interviewed the doctor as well who worked on him, Cesario, he said that he'd never seen anything prior in his 20 years prior or his 25 years after. He'd never seen anything like it, where you get an infection from a little cut, and the antibiotics aren't responding, and there's something in it that he's never seen before. He's just never seen

Starting point is 01:24:26 23 year old perfectly healthy with a infection that won't go away was now was the doctor in speaking with him was the doctor certain that the actual cut itself was infected and therefore that's what was causing him no it was in his bloodstream. Okay, keep going. I'll ask about that later. And there's more research that's being done on this as we speak. So there's people that did the autopsy, the people that wrote the autopsy report. There's the death certificate.

Starting point is 01:24:58 There's a number, there's a paper trail here that we're following up on. There's people in the media that are actually going after this quietly behind the scenes and wants to make a determination as to a better assertion of exactly what happened or if there's any kind of indication of a foreign substance in his blood.

Starting point is 01:25:14 This will be coming out this year. So in any case, so Marco Tresi gets his infection. The doctor treats him with antibiotics. Nothing's responding. He literally said he threw the kitchen sink at him. Mark Atrezi dies. The other doctor that was on duty that day.

Starting point is 01:25:32 How many days before he died? You know, he went to the hospital. Within a couple of days, he was dead. It wasn't many. And it was like a week or two later, you said, he went to the hospital? Two and a half weeks after, yeah like that okay yeah and uh she said all the media frenzy and marta sat by his bedside is the story of this et true and he said something to the effect of uh this is going to be out one of a really huge big deal this this there's a lot more to this story something like this and according to

Starting point is 01:26:07 his doctor he was revealing what had happened to him because he knew he probably might be dying and he wanted the doctor to have all the details possible but then the doctor kind of says this on camera you could probably find it in the film if you wanted to and then kind of backpedals and said but he was you know he was not allowed to talk about any of it. This guy right there? Yes, sir. Yeah, that's him. Okay, let's play this real quick. So we're going to cut to 4843 of the doc.

Starting point is 01:26:35 I got to turn the volume on. Sorry. 4845. We said that he never saw in his whole medical career anything like that. We'll get to that in a minute, Juan. And that infection killed him. Good afternoon. My name is Cesar Limpurtado. I'm a doctor. And this is the doctor. He says my name is whatever. I'm the doctor. I'm an intensive care internist.

Starting point is 01:27:07 I've been working in the city for 45 years. In 1996, I was here when the event, the appearance of extraterrestrial beings occurred in the city. I had to attend to Marco Cherezi. He was the military officer, people say, who was involved in the case at the time. And we took him to the intensive care and did all the treatments, but he died from an undetermined cause, a case unknown at the time by us doctors. So he didn't know about the alien case. Well, all the witnesses that claim that Marco Chirisi handled a creature, a strange creature, it doesn't have to be from another world,

Starting point is 01:28:04 it was a strange creature, doesn't have to be from another world it was a strange creature he gets some unknown infection you did everything you could to save him and he died do you believe that there's some credibility to that story yes it's a credible story he exposed this oh he's catching himself right to reveal what happened to try to help himself to save his life because he felt he was dying and according to his sister he was restricted from talking about it okay do you want me to cut it there yeah Yeah, sure. Okay. So the doctor, you saw what just happened there. The doctor basically is like, he knew he was probably dying. He was revealing what really happened because, you know, what's he going to do?

Starting point is 01:28:57 Worry about his secrecy or die? But does that mean the doctor was aware of the case itself? Oh, everybody in the whole town knew of the case. There wasn't a single person who lives in Virginia that doesn't know about the case. At this point, so the doctor could have put two and two together, like, oh. He could have, yeah, for sure. I see what you're saying. But, I mean,

Starting point is 01:29:13 word traveled, and it really came from the three girls, because everybody believed the girls. I mean, first of all, there was a military presence in the town of Virginia, in and around the town of Virginia, that no one had ever seen before. There were military blockades of roads they couldn't get through. There were threatens at gunpoint with people who lived at residence.

Starting point is 01:29:33 That I live in that house right there. Let me through here. No. And they, no. You know? Yeah. 3 o'clock in the afternoon, you got a gun to your face, you can't go home? Like, really?

Starting point is 01:29:44 What the fuck? You know? And then I got the local media guy. Ned, Ned, Nedia. He's on camera. Yeah, the guy with the bald guy who is bigger. Yes, yes. So he, he's the media.

Starting point is 01:29:58 TV presenza, presenza. Yeah. You know, and he's like going out. He hears about the girls and he's going. He's like, you know, he's a town. He jumps in his car and off he goes goes and they threaten him. No, and he's having media ask people of the mezzo military base About these reports you ask one more question and your men are going to jail We're gonna talk about us. Yeah, this is a national security issue

Starting point is 01:30:21 You are not going any further beyond this point right here Did the like the mother hell did didn't the mother say maybe I'm mixing this up. So correct me if I'm wrong Yeah, didn't the mother say like quote-unquote men in black visited her home Yeah And and the girls a few days later and they were literally like men in black who has one of whom spoke the other three Didn't and he spoke Portuguese and said you can't talk about this? Oh, tried to get him. Okay, so let's back up a little here. Yeah, please.

Starting point is 01:30:48 Because I'd heard, if I talked to your audience, addressed the so-called men in black issue, we could go on for 12 hours. Because I could give you accounts that I'd heard dating back to the 50s, and then thes and then the 70s and the 80s and the 90s, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Cases, specific cases that I've investigated. Military men that I've talked to, civilian witnesses that I'd talked to about these so-called men, dark suits that show up and intimidate witnesses, blah, blah, blah. I've never included any of the testimony in any one of my films because I felt it was a slippery slope and I didn't I couldn't prove it and it just seemed too weird I was like man think about will Smith no do you think if they had never made that movie though you wouldn't be thinking

Starting point is 01:31:37 like that well when did that movie come out? Maybe like 96, 97, maybe? Somewhere in there. Because I first heard about him in 97, so maybe. I don't know. But in any case, I avoided the plague, okay? When I got to Brazil, and the mother of the two daughters, her two daughters that came in contact with that bean, whatever, when she told me that story, was so profoundly moved i finally said the hell with it i'm gonna i'm gonna include this testimony in the piece and i don't care

Starting point is 01:32:11 what anybody thinks if anybody can attack me or come at me james is reporting on men in black whatever it was very subtle it wasn't you you weren't like but i left it a ton of attention yeah i left it in yeah i left it in because i believed a ton of attention. Yeah. I left it in. Yeah. I left it in because I believed her. And I'd heard enough testimony from both civilian and military over the decades. I said, it was a straw that brought the camels back for me. And I said, okay, I'm going to put this in. I'm sure I'm going to get criticism for it. Whatever.

Starting point is 01:32:43 James is reporting on men in black figures now. You know, I get it. And what exactly, exactly like we kind of said it but like were there any crazy specifics that she mentioned that really stood out to you about what they said yeah they had a briefcase full of money foreign bills probably u.s dollars that she could leave but she had to get her daughters to go on news stations and say they were lying and that they they made it all up, and what they saw was just like a homeless guy or something like that. And the mother refused. And they did it. Like, I mean, she said they were kind of scary. Like, they were very intimidating. And that one of them spoke, and the two others just sat there quietly. I think she said they took notes.

Starting point is 01:33:22 There's two others, not three others? Two others. There was three in total. And and they were intimidating and they were forceful and she was scared and uh she finally threatened to call the police and they they ultimately left and she said i'm not gonna i'm not my daughters are not liars my daughter's not lying i'm not taking this i'm not gonna go relocate in some other foreign place with whatever money you're trying to give me Why wouldn't they kill them? Oh God that would have been such an obvious cover. I mean kids girls were everywhere They just killed all three worlds and the oh, yeah, cuz they've already gone all over the place They're saying all over the news all over the news. Those girls made this the catapulted this why everybody believed the girls

Starting point is 01:34:02 Why did they let it get to that then? I think it happened so quickly. You know, and look, the cover-up... I'm just trying to poke holes. Yeah, no, for sure. And look, there were... Every one of the town, like... One of the reasons why I went down to the town square, it seems kind of silly and lighthearted, whatever, but I did it because if an event of that magnitude had happened,

Starting point is 01:34:24 surely people of the town would have some sort of information heard something and so and and it's exactly what happened oh my cousin saw this oh i saw like later that night i saw this flying saucer looking you know so military trucks you know unprecedented we don't see military trucks in downtown Virginia. That never happens. Like, you know, they were courting off the hospitals, like, you know. And that's what Carlos Sosa was saying, too. Well, he talked about the men in dark suits. He said it was scary. Like, I mean, it was like, how the hell do they know all about me?

Starting point is 01:35:00 They knew about my wife, where I live, my daughter, like, everything. He said it was terrifying so back to back to cherese yeah you get this doctor to backtrack i think i saw it i see what you're saying i thought at first when you were saying buddy backtracks like he was going to admit like accidentally that like he knew all about what the guy told him but didn't you also god there's so much going on here didn't you also say in there that the that the dot like this was maybe 15 minutes ago where you were like the doctor allegedly was told things at the bedside by cherese yeah so he slips up right there the

Starting point is 01:35:40 segment you just shared with your audience but he he said the sister, no? He said he revealed what happened because he was fearful for his life. To his sister. And then he says, according to his sister. But no, it was according to, because he kind of catches himself revealing too much, then he says, according to his sister. Oh.

Starting point is 01:36:02 No. He revealed what happened because he was worried. Dude, he was dying. And the doctors couldn't fix him. What happened? Why are you sick? Of course he's going to tell me. And he says so.

Starting point is 01:36:15 Right there. And he dies. And the other doctor, according to the family, said we've got to put him in the ground immediately. Like no memorial service, no nothing. Put him in the ground. Yeah, the doctor was on duty that day. When he died, the doctor that was on duty said, got to get him in the ground like immediately. Okay.

Starting point is 01:36:32 We're going to skip over the radiologist and military X and we're going to come back to them. Yeah. What we need to do is where you almost essentially like close to closed out the documentary here, which was with Eric Lopes. Yes. And I want to go there because Eric Lopes, as we've highlighted, was the driver of that car. Now, Eric Lopes, as you found out and you're going to describe in a minute, is alive today. Yes. yes where i may disagree with you i'm not going to say like oh it's impossible that the alien infect infected him with something and that's what killed him and is it possible that infection

Starting point is 01:37:12 could have absolutely really shown up and shown teeth two weeks later because it settled in and got his bloodstream and he died absolutely but i tend to think especially given the fact that this guy was talkative at his bedside and his sister was involved and whatever i'm more of the opinion here that he was polonium or something poisoned by people from the government who were afraid he was going to speak why wouldn't they have killed uh eric lopes at the same time because i may have misunderstood this so correct me here i think eric lopes two things was somewhat connected within the military by family and secondly he also kind of proved the point because he shut the fuck up he didn't say shit to anybody and let's dovetail that before i get your response

Starting point is 01:38:06 to that can you describe how you got in touch with eric lopes and then what happened yes so i'm like these accounts of capturing a live alien with your bear first of all i believe the girls i wouldn't have gone any further i mean i really believe the girl's testimony and then you've got these accounts that were just a few blocks away from where the girls are at 536 o'clock. And I was like, there are only two witnesses, Marco Schriese and Eric Lopes. Schriese's dead.

Starting point is 01:38:39 We got Eric Lopes left. We've got to find Eric Lopes. We've got to get him on camera. We've got to get a statement. Everybody was like, that's never going to happen. We got to find Eric Lopes. We got to get him on camera. We got to get a statement. Everybody was like, that's never going to happen. He's completely gone off the radar. He won't even talk to the family.

Starting point is 01:38:51 He won't give a statement. He was good friends, Eric Lopes, with Marco Trezzi. They grew up together. Eric Lopes fell in love with Marco Trezzi's other sister, not Marta, and ultimately married her. Okay? She is, her brother died. Okay?

Starting point is 01:39:17 Her brother died, and she married the man who's the only other living witness. They're together. We decide, I went to the mayor, Mayor Verge, the active mayor, not retired. And he was incredibly transparent on the case. He talked about the witnesses that he'd heard and seen and met, and that he believed that this story happened. The mayor says this on camera, which is a pretty big deal. I don't think it's ever been done before. So the mayor was like, well, whatever I can do to help.

Starting point is 01:39:47 I was like, let me think about that one for a minute. So I said, yeah, we'd like to find this guy, Eric Lopes. Nobody can seem to find him. He's been off the radar. We can't get any statements out of him. He goes, I'll help you with that. Yeah, I'll do that. So he arranges from the former, I think it was like a police sergeant or chief police,

Starting point is 01:40:05 in and around the area in Virginia. I got him in the film. He says, yes, go meet this guy. He's a friend of mine. He used to run the chief police, whatever. We found his address. We're going to take you out there. And it was him.

Starting point is 01:40:18 I have the specifics. It was like sergeant police, you know, and I show him in uniform back from 96. And then his son, who's a very famous lawyer used to be a politician in Virginia when we were standing in the town square people would drive by they were honking and waving and shouting and the guy was clearly home low was very famous and his dad they were going to take me out to the location I was following him in his big executive black Mercedes and then just dropped me off and then I was on my own. Like, here's his house. Good luck.

Starting point is 01:40:52 Well, I always listen to this little inner voice. I always listen. I never ignore it. Sorry, this thing's pulling on me. Oh, the thing went out? No, I got it. Oh, it's good. Yep. I always listen to this little inner voice, and I thought to myself,

Starting point is 01:41:08 hmm, I don't think I should walk up to this guy's house solo. I think I should have some locals that have known him and grown up in the area. So just as we were about to follow this black Mercedes out to the house, I stopped, and I got the translator, and I ran up to the car. We're all, like like ready to go. I said, hey, Homelo, would you mind getting out of the car and walking up to his front

Starting point is 01:41:34 door with us and helping do this thing? And I honestly think, you can call me crazy all you like, but I honestly think that might have saved my life. I don't disagree i i really think that could have been a very deadly serious situation because even the local researchers that had balls like peccacini who packed a gun and like he'll tell you some crazy stories during his time he wouldn't go near eric lopes eric lopes the military police, like, you know, armed to the teeth, no doubt. Is he still active in military police?

Starting point is 01:42:11 He was up until fairly recently. I know that from a Facebook page. And so, I honestly think that was a very wise decision that I made in the field like that. We go up to this guy's house and the first thing well first of all you want to play the scene yeah i have it up yeah and this is where this is where alessi who just left actually came in pretty clutch from the car because he came you had just to set it you walked up you had the translator you had the guy who brought you there and you had i think two cameramen with you right yeah i had i had uh david i had the sound guy and the sound guy is funny if you look at the sound guy carefully sound guy is brazilian he's from like rio i think and he can listen he's got headphones on and he's got his boom mic and he's got his boom mic pointed out

Starting point is 01:43:00 to the guy's mouth so he can hear what's going on right right and you don't know what airclubs looks like this is by the way no i don't know what he looks like yeah i'd heard about airclubs for years over a decade so but when you're walking up alessi alessi and marco are in the car yeah marco wasn't getting out of the car marco was terrified the bullets were going to start flying marco had known through the fellow researchers and through his own efforts that this guy could potentially start shooting everybody. So Marco stays in his car. And then this happens. I'm gonna play it. Yeah. At 1 30 14. Oh, you missed driving up to his house. That part is really good. Yeah, it was like it was like 60 seconds before. I don't want it to be too long. I gave away too much. I make people watch that.

Starting point is 01:43:47 But this is when you're up to the window, and there's a figure. And the translator's saying it's about an ET, and then they're saying he won't talk. And then he says, I'm going to remove you with bullets. And this is in Portuguese, so you don't know what he said. No, I don't. I'm trying to figure out what's going on.

Starting point is 01:44:02 I don't even know who he is. And you're like, it's all good? He's like, what's going on. I don't even know who he is. And you're like, it's all good? He's like, you're going to get in trouble? He's in the window. We can see him, but it's far away. This is Eric Lopez? And now you're figuring out this is Eric Lopez. Let me ask you a question.

Starting point is 01:44:15 Please. Pregunta. Por favor. Can I ask one question? He's cocking a gun. He's his friend, Lopez's friend. Oh, okay. It's not his friend.

Starting point is 01:44:23 He goes, I will kick you out with bullets. Well, hold on, hold on. Just ask him one question. I didn't know what he just said. He said, no, no, I need my question. Guy's like, hold on. You're going to get in trouble. I'm loading my.45.

Starting point is 01:44:39 Ever come forward and make a statement? You would have gone out a legend if he shot you right here. I'm not going to lie. I'm glad he didn't shoot you but and she's still talking to him with a straight face if you think Lopez could he goes I am Lopez from the window so now this is Alessi in the car this is the house let's see Marco yeah but he doesn't like to talk so now back to you and Alessi's gonna bring the camera up you can see my face i'm just trying to figure out what the hell's going on they didn't tell me i didn't even know it was air globes i thought maybe it was now we got a lessee walking with the camera yeah

Starting point is 01:45:16 see the audio guy yeah see the way he's kind of peering out yeah not getting because he can hear people on youtube and spotify can see this right now. If you're on Apple or Amazon, you're going to have to check it out on video. At some point. So Eric won't talk? No. You're still standing right in there.

Starting point is 01:45:36 Is that Eric Lopez? Who is that? He doesn't want to talk. That's Eric Lopez. Oh, shit. He doesn't want to talk at all. Turn me down. Turn me down. Okay. Let's get the fuck out of here. Oh, shit. He doesn't want to talk at all. Terminate. Terminate.

Starting point is 01:45:45 Okay. Let's get the fuck out of here. Oh, my God. Unless he's there with the side shot. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Wow. We'll talk later.

Starting point is 01:45:56 Wow. Well, good talk. Look at him. Did you get him? Did you get him? He's like, get the fuck out. Yeah, he probably heard more than everybody else because he had his headphones on and he had the mic. Oh, my God.

Starting point is 01:46:06 Right? So he was listening and you could see. This is not going well. The sound guy, he's going like, he's putting his head behind the brick wall a little bit. And he's putting his microphone out this way so he's not in the line of fire. Guy knew what the hell was being said. And then he tells us, I'm confused. I was like, shit. You're hilarious in that scene.

Starting point is 01:46:28 I was confused. Let me tell you something. And this is something the camera didn't pick up. I'm standing there and I'm looking into this guy's eyes. Airclopes. I didn't know it was airclopes. I didn't know. What I did know, I'd never seen a face like it in my life. Not because he looked different from

Starting point is 01:46:52 other people that I'd seen, but because it looked like a guy that had been exposed to something that has been burdening him for 26 years, it looked like a man who'd witnessed something so deep, so profound, so deeply moving and disturbing, and he can't talk, and he can't... How fast did you make that calculation? Soon as I saw his eyes. What was it about? Was it like, you know, people describe

Starting point is 01:47:24 like the old Vietnam veterans had like the thousand mile stairs thousand yard stare like they just they're looking at you but they're not let me tell you something it didn't translate in the i'm looking at it now i could see in his his face the way his face his whole face and his eyes, like if you can imagine a weight on him, a weight on his shoulders that's been burdening him for 25 years, 26 years. Something so deep, so profound, so unbelievable, and he's having to take it to the grave. Just imagine, just put yourself in his shoes. I'd never seen a face quite like it. I'll tell you the honest to God truth. I just remember looking at him.

Starting point is 01:48:10 Yeah, you're the only one there. You guys were there. And I was the closest. I was right across from him, and I was looking up at him. It just kind of spooked me because I didn't know. I didn't see anybody get the door. Well, he was in the window. Yeah, he was in the window.

Starting point is 01:48:22 But I heard talking, and I was looking for something in my trouser pocket. And I heard talking, and I looked at the front door, and I didn't see anybody at the front door. And I was like, where the hell? And then I look up, and there he was. And that is when I just, there was something about this guy's face, his eyes, like, wow. That was somebody who's been carrying something with them deeply troubling but the way from the viewer standpoint because again you could see him close but the camera's kind of far away we can barely make him out dave was trying to do this and he was doing this to

Starting point is 01:48:55 the camera and the whole time the but he had another i didn't see another oh yeah no he's going like this like this i saw him do one of these like quickly but saying he was moving like oh he's like a clock almost. Dave said that he'd never had that happen to him in his life before, where someone was looking at him, at the cameraman, looking at him going with a hand down here like this. Dave was freaking out, man. It's never happened to him before.

Starting point is 01:49:19 And the sound guy's like, never happened to him before. And I'm somewhat clueless. I'm right across. I'm trying to figure out what the hell's going on. I want my question. Yeah. And I was like, pregunta, por favor, please. I wanted to know so badly.

Starting point is 01:49:32 Like, you know, because I'd heard about this witness for so long. And we had to get the help of the mayor to go out there. And it was a big deal. What was the one question going to be? Where you were like, I just want to know this one question. Give a statement. I wanted him to give me a statement of what happened. Like, were you driving the car?

Starting point is 01:49:46 Were you driving the car? Yeah during the capture because the way his voice and again, I don't know Here's something that you didn't get right at the beginning of this. Okay, sorry. What's that? Please when we drove up we just said edik That was all we said edik edik and eric sees us walking up from the window, and he says, if you're here to talk about the E.T., he won't talk. Not I.

Starting point is 01:50:11 He. So he. Oh, third person. He says E.T. We didn't say we were here to talk about the E.T. We never said. All we said is Etik. Etik.

Starting point is 01:50:21 And Eric says, if you're here to talk about the E.T. he won't talk so at what point did they figure out it's like the cops showing up at your house at a party and then all the cops do is say good evening you say there's no drugs in here do you know what I'm saying we didn't ask you if there was drugs in here but now that you mention it

Starting point is 01:50:38 that was all happening so fast in the clip though what did he say was it the translator said are you Eric Lopes and he said I am Eric Lopes well that was clip though what did he said did did they was it the translator said are you eric lopes and he said i am eric lopes well that was later but later but at first he said he yeah he said i'm a friend of eric lopes he said he'll never talk about the et or something like that about the et that's what he said yes and then he made a switch to okay i'm eric lopes well and he said we're not eric lopes and then i kept persisting you guys are gonna get in trouble bullets are gonna start flying you guys are gonna get get in trouble, bullets are going to start flying, you guys are going to

Starting point is 01:51:06 get in trouble, I'm going to kick you out with bullets. And then I was like, pregunta, please, por favor, pregunta, you know. And I said, you know, will you ever make a statement about Eric Lopes? And he says, and you can just tell, he goes, fuck it, I'm Eric Lopes. And that's, yeah. Because

Starting point is 01:51:21 I don't speak Portuguese. I don't know how other people are going to interpret this but when i was listening to it the thing that really struck me is he seemed like his the way his voice sounded seemed so nonchalant he was like yeah no i remove you with bullets like yeah it was not like i'm gonna remove you with bullets you know there was no like there was none of that but you can see like and he's almost like kind of hanging in the window like this you said you saw his hand like this well everybody kind of speculated i mean who knows i mean you know but his hand is down below the windowsill like this most of the time and the other sorry the other hand is kind of doing this and he's pointing at the camera because dave said

Starting point is 01:51:58 he was doing this and dave's got the wrong lens on he's trying to zoom in it's focusing on the on the wrong thing and i mean it almost yeah you know and so here here's the thing so you don't you don't think though you don't think that they killed chares you think he died of that infection i do and i could tell you why later okay uh so another thing and this is in the in the extras of the movie, there's another aspect. There was a sighting at the zoo, and we interviewed the veterinarian, the zoologist, the person that ran the zoo, and there was a sighting by a woman outside. She was in her 80s, smoking a cigarette. We have her on camera, smoking a cigarette, and she saw one of the creatures. This was months later, and all these animals died in the same mysterious way that marker trees they were exposed to something

Starting point is 01:52:49 they got immune system deficiency and they all died we interviewed the guy it's in the extras on itunes vimeo not amazon but itunes and vimeo do we have photographic evidence of the animals no i interviewed the the scientists or the zoologist or the veterinarian who worked on him and he talks about it it's all in the extras yeah we didn't include that in the film because it was another aspect of the story that we're gonna release that yeah put that out yeah yeah I know so I'm gonna stay on this so um where was that guys I'm sorry we were talking about Lopes you had said you're gonna answer later my question about your belief that Carrazi was

Starting point is 01:53:26 is it Carrazi or Chairrazi well Eric Lopes all he had to do was come outside and say god this is so funny this is a terrible misunderstanding this is nothing to this story I wish there was but it was a perfectly normal night and my partner Marco died from

Starting point is 01:53:42 you know he got an infection or I wasn't there i wasn't whatever whatever but he doesn't do that he could literally just come outside and diffuse the whole thing oh my god this is so funny isn't that weird how rumors spread and i had nothing to do with any of this and that would have been the end of it he gave a statement and no but instead he says if you're here to talk about the et he won't talk he won talk. He won't talk. Not I. He. That's weird. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:54:07 We didn't ask him about the E.T. We just said Eric. We said Eric. Maybe Eric Lopes. That was it. That's all we said. We're looking for Eric Lopes. If you're here to talk about the E.T., that came from his mouth.

Starting point is 01:54:20 Yeah. That's weird, right? It's very weird. It's kind of weird. Because then he flips to the... And then he says, I am Eric Lopes. You guys are going to get in trouble. I'm going to kick you out.

Starting point is 01:54:29 Bullets are going to start flying. Something like this. So, anyway. Are you... Now, you've described that stare that you saw. Are you certain, though, that that's not it? That that's him? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:54:43 And that wasn't the other guy there? Yeah, because we found his... And then suddenly, I'm like... So, we found his... It was like guy there we found him like so we found his you know fuck it we found his facebook page and here's another thing that i did so he has his picture on there oh yeah that was him all right no question got it so uh after this incident uh it made headline news across brazil like it got out somehow this This. Yes, this. That we were almost shot at or something like this. It made headline news across Brazil. So I reached out through, I think Marta, because Marta's sister's married to him.

Starting point is 01:55:15 Like Eric Chirisi's sister is married to Mark Lopes. And then the other sister. And Marta's the other sister who went on camera to talk about all this. She's the one that told us to go get Eric Lopes. He's got all the answers go get a statement from him Did she so she does it sounds like she doesn't have a relationship with him or no? She said that that the one one or two times and she was desperately trying to give him tell him the truth He was just smoking cigarettes back-to-back smoking cigarettes sweating

Starting point is 01:55:41 Smoking cigarettes and looking at her and smoking cigarettes and just wouldn't say anything. So it tore apart the family. Oh, totally. So anyway, so we get a hold of Eric Lopes' wife on the phone or text. I can't remember. Marco Tresi's sister. Marco Tresi's sister.

Starting point is 01:55:55 And is it Tresi or Keresi? Tresi. Tresi, got it. So we get a hold of his wife, and I said, here's the question I wanted to ask her i said i said what is it going to take for eric lopes to come forward and give a statement on what happened she said you bring my brother back to life and eric lopes will talk uh i just had david satter in here who the second time, who is to this day actually still,

Starting point is 01:56:29 even after almost a year of this Ukraine war, he is the only Western reporter who has ever been banned from post-Soviet Russia by the Russian government. He has been a thorn in their side for 50 years almost. And he was banned in 2013. He is viewed as like the preeminent psychologist of Vladimir Putin in the West in the world before the KGB there was the nkvd in the 30s that was responsible for murdering hundreds of thousands of people like the pogroms and stuff no no no pogroms were uh ethnic anti-jewish for the most part. Right. Riots. No, this was the great terror during the 1930s

Starting point is 01:57:07 that Stalin launched against real and imagined opponents in order to bring the country completely to its knees. And one of the things he said to me that really does strike me, and he didn't say it – what's the term? Carte blanche or – I don't know if it's carte blanche, but he didn't say it like this is always the case 100% of the time. I think he said most of the time, in my experience, 50-some years of journalism when you get he was he had mentioned a quote from a guy named german ugriamov i think from russia who had given this insane quote about putin with the apartment bombings and everything and how he did them and it was like straight out of a movie and he said in my experience as a journalist when you hear a quote from people or even just a reported quote that someone may have said off camera somewhere else and it's that good and it ties everything together so perfectly, not something as simple as it happened, like the one you said earlier, but more like the

Starting point is 01:58:16 one you just said that the sister said to you, Eric Lopes' wife. When you hear a quote like that, in his experience, he's like, people don't just come up with that. It's too good. And so when I – I can't get that out of my head. I'm like, when I hear that, I'm like, she didn't just like think of that. You know what I mean? Like that wasn't just like a random whatever. That was rooted in deep emotional ties to a case that took her brother all these years ago that she's now

Starting point is 01:58:45 married to the one man who knows what happened and perhaps so does she it's oh he must have told his wife i mean come on right well well so uh i guess i could go either way, right? I can't reveal this, damn it. I want to, but I can't. I just can't reveal it. But Eric Lopes gave testimony at the time, all of it, to someone we know. Okay. So that's all. I can leave it right there.

Starting point is 01:59:20 Okay. And that person communicated with us. And you can't say? I just can't.'t all right that's fine yeah yeah anyway oh you know the the um the other aspect of the story is the transportation of the creature from the military that's what we're going back to now so i had said we're skipping over we're skipping over the radiologist and military x very very quickly though before we go to that i just don't want to forget this who were the three random people that you interviewed in between the crazy the crazy story and the sisters who made you shoot them from behind because they were a prominent family or something.

Starting point is 02:00:06 What did they say they saw again? So this was creepy. This was so weird because we didn't even quite figure it out at the time. I don't know why. We didn't put that together. But we were in the edit room, and like I said earlier, I flew a drone over all the different important sites, the alleged crash site, the encounter, the capture,

Starting point is 02:00:28 the military blockades, all this stuff. And usually when I fly the drone, I'll get a bunch of different shots. I'll take the drone straight up. I'll look straight down. I'll pan the camera up, down. I try to document everything around. So we're renting a nice house on the outskirts of Virginia that's got security because we had a lot of camera gear. We had multiple vehicles with camera gear and drones and lenses and all that stuff.

Starting point is 02:00:56 And just wanted to be extra careful. And we're also a little concerned because we're poking around on a story that, you know, the government and military didn't want out. And so that was, you know, we rented a nice little gate and had a secure gate going in and out with a security guard. And it was a nice place. I got you new security, by the way, too. I'll talk to you after. All right. So the owners are doctors, and they have friends. And they were like, well, what are you guys doing here?

Starting point is 02:01:25 And we told them we're shooting this documentary on the Virginia case. Oh, you got to talk to our friends. They're fellow doctors, and they said they're really good witnesses. The entire family had experience. You got to go talk to them. Got to go talk to them. So they agreed to meet with us. It was my understanding that they agreed to meet with us on camera.

Starting point is 02:01:43 But we got to their house, and the entire family are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what are all these camera gear doing here? It's like, well, you said you'd meet with us. Well, we said we'd meet with you, but we didn't say we'd go on camera. We just wanted you to know what we saw. So I eventually talked them in to going on camera. I was like, look, I'll film you from the back, whatever. They talked, they shared this story for the first time probably in 26 years.

Starting point is 02:02:07 And this was probably, oh, and I found out because of the drone, I was like, wait a minute. This house is like three or four blocks, small box, away from where the girls saw this creature, claimed to have seen this creature, four or five blocks away from where the alleged capture took place with Marco Trezzi and Eric Lopes, and just a few blocks away from the military blockade that we have a bunch of eyewitness accounts on people at gunpoint at three o'clock in the afternoon told, you will not be walking through here you know and so i got that all that and then i we're at their house and we're in the edit room months later a couple months later and i think it was boris he looked and he's like you realize like wait a minute this the family

Starting point is 02:02:57 this was like 11 o'clock at night and they're just a couple blocks away and the family was adamant that this object this disc shaped craft was looking for something and i kept saying what do you mean looking for something what do you mean they said it was looking for something we watched it for 20 minutes all of them the mother the dad the daughter and it was doing this grid pattern looking for something. Boris turns to me and he goes, I think you have a drone shot of all the areas, of all this area. The military blockade, the girls' encounter, the Marco Tresi

Starting point is 02:03:34 capture, and the house of the people that we're interviewing right now. So we take out the drone footage, we go through all of it. It took us like three or four hours. And we find, we started to identify rooftop and trees that were out front, and we went, oh, my God, this house is three blocks away.

Starting point is 02:03:50 We have a shot in the film of all that area, all in one shot. That's... This could mean one thing. Either this family's full of doggy doo-doo, which I can't imagine why they would be, or this was a rescue operation.

Starting point is 02:04:09 That craft was looking to rescue, recover their comrades. Because what the hell else are they doing? Because you can hear the testimony of the family. They were looking for something. And I'm like, well, you sure you didn't mistake and the guy gets upset he's like i know damn well what i saw he's like we watched it for 20 minutes it was right above my house going like this and it was doing that over that entire encounter area is the creature i'm trying to think because we we've talked about there's two could could have been up to five, whatever.

Starting point is 02:04:52 So the creature that the girls saw at this point, that hasn't been captured by the military yet while they're seeing this. Yes, so the fire department made a capture earlier that morning. Which would have been that one. Which would have been, well... No, no, because they saw it. So Marco, my buddy, has met with people that were involved with the first capture, but they didn't want to come forward on camera. But there was a capture in the morning of a live creature. They got it with a net. And so many people say there was another capture that involved gunfire.

Starting point is 02:05:21 But we know about the only one only had two solid you know two solid you know multiple eyewitness all the researchers like two solid captures but there are possibly almost definitely more but we only include the two do we know that i'm trying to keep it straight. Do we know that that alien that the girl saw was one of the ones that got captured? Almost positive. But that wasn't one of your two you're talking about. Yes, it is. It is one of your two. Because it was just two blocks away.

Starting point is 02:05:56 Two hours away. When the family that we're talking about is seeing this drone. 11 o'clock at night. So it's after 3 p.m. Yes. So that one's been captured. Yes. Got it. Okay. Fair enough enough so the girls see it at three it's captured around 5 30 or 6 by marco treasy which would have been i guess oh he caught oh fuck i messed that up so he captured that exact one the

Starting point is 02:06:16 one the girl saw marco treasy captured two blocks away okay it's a couple hours later and then okay and then three blocks away from that three or four blocks away from that is the family getting the pizza delivered at 11 o'clock at night why are they getting the pizza at 11 they're getting food they're getting food delivered late at night who knows this summer evening it was summer time it's january still sketchy i mean i would get like you know if i'm like out partying and like that makes sense but like a family yeah they got pete they got food delivered and so and even the delivery guy according to the family side But you have to keep in mind

Starting point is 02:06:50 We found them they refused to go on camera. They were not looking for notoriety. They didn't want their faces on camera They didn't want any money. They didn't want all they wanted for us to know is hey Oh, I heard that you're doing this thing through the fellow doctors and they agreed to meet with us to share their story that was it i talked him into going on from the backside going on camera to talk about what they'd seen so but there were also people in the town town square who also saw the same craft same description also looking for something that was earlier how big did they say it was not that big 40 feet in diameter okay yeah 40 feet in diameter kind of like a decent boat on like a life like a life like a lifeboat yeah from a bigger boat yeah yeah like a little dinghy anyway interesting okay so now we're are we at the radiologist now is that right uh sure we can radio that's yeah so what

Starting point is 02:07:42 do you want to do well let's just go to radiologists. That's fine. So Marco Leal, and I can't emphasize his level of contribution to this project, would have been impossible without him and the other researchers that had done decades of research in the area. And there were a couple of students of a radiologist that worked at Humanitas Hospital. Was it regional? I'm trying to remember i'll look it up while you're talking yeah okay see if i can find it okay cool yeah definitely definitely show

Starting point is 02:08:09 that segment because it's insane and a couple of his students he had shared the story with his students years ago years and years ago and his students met with by accident Marco Leal who's my co-producer and boots on the ground in Brazil and Marco found him while he was still employed he confirmed that you know the story and said he'll never come forward publicly Marco followed him he disappeared then he found him again then he would disappear and this went on for about seven years marco leo is your guy with the mustang yeah the heavy set guy that's yeah so marco finds him years and years and years ago and develops a relationship with him and finally after he'd been retired for multiple years agrees to meet with us to go on camera provided we disguise his voice and don't reveal his face. And he was a radiation, he provided photographic evidence of him being at the

Starting point is 02:09:10 hospital. We knew he was who he said he was. We've been chasing him down for seven or eight years. And his testimony, I don't know why, for some reason, but there's something about his story that I found really, really compelling. Almost kind of makes your skin crawl. I don't know if you want to play a little scene. Yeah, I have it right here. Let's pull it up. He was just another day at the office, and all of a sudden military Jeeps and trucks show up with armed rifles. Yeah, I'll leave it at that. And this guy had his face covered you don't reveal his name yes but this is him on and it's the rate it's the radiologist yeah this is at 106.01 i think i

Starting point is 02:09:57 started it regional regional hospital january 1996. a radiologist has an unexpected visit by the military while on duty at regional hospital. He agrees to share his story, provided his identity remains concealed. We blurred his face in the photograph. Outside the gated courtyard, there was a truck from ESA military. I'm translating what he's saying. In the courtyard, there was a Jeep with more military personnel and another eight or ten police vehicles. Nobody comes and nobody goes. So we have a big military presence on the outside of the hospital.

Starting point is 02:10:39 We got two army and two police on the inside of the hospital with a box and something inside of a black zip body bag now they're showing the table they asked me to do the x-rays of the parts they requested here's some pictures you have like re-dos of the thorax the abdomen the pelvis the legs the arms etc etc so these are not real pictures you're doing a recreation their eyes were fixed observing me all the time to see what i was doing but they didn't say anything even among themselves the x-rays were developed and at the time he was saying they didn't say anything even among themselves.

Starting point is 02:11:25 And he says, I saw no images. It all was taken by the military that day. Normally, I verify. This is what's interesting. Normally, I verify the images are correct, but on this day, I didn't verify them. Understand? One person who was there said, your is done thank you very much your job is done don't comment on what you saw or what you did but what did it smell like the smell was strong a mix between sulfur and ammonia. When they took whatever it was in that black bag, and they left the hospital, and the police,

Starting point is 02:12:13 with that bag and that thing, did the smell leave? Despite all the cleaning, disinfecting, the smell remained. And that section of the hospital was closed. We couldn't serve the public because the smell was so strong. All right, I'll cut it there. That is crazy, right?

Starting point is 02:12:38 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's amazing recreations if people aren't watching. I get goosebumps on that one. Me too, man. Yeah, so he, and there's amazing recreations if people aren't watching on... I get goosebumps on that one. Me too, man. I mean, like, and you did a good job with, like, those artist drawings of, like, what he's trying to describe. But, you know, if people are on Spotify and YouTube and didn't see those, you'll see it in the documentary, which you can get on Amazon Prime, Apple TV. You can rent it, buy it, all this stuff.

Starting point is 02:13:00 Yeah, if you buy it, get it from iTunes, because you get, for the same price, you get two hours of bonus material, or Vimeo. I'm an idiot. I bought it on Amazon. I know. I'll buy it get it from itunes because you get for the same price you get two hours of bonus material or vimeo i'm an idiot i bought it on amazon all right i'll buy it on itunes too but this when when you're looking at those recreations i guess he was like taking the images by pressing a button farther away and the military guys were right there and he didn't get to review the images which he found unique. Never. He never doesn't review them, ever. And he also... The history of his career, he never doesn't get to look and verify the images are correct. And I think, correct me if I'm wrong,

Starting point is 02:13:34 he was also saying, because they were never going to have me verify, why did they have me do it when I'm a guy who actually knows a lot? Why didn't they have any one of the nurses who may not know fucking anything, but they know how to press the button do it that was curious to me and why he was chosen to take the x-rays in general just overall like the whole thing was just you know it's it's another one of those cases

Starting point is 02:13:56 where you have it's a little piece of the puzzle there's no one person that we met with that had the full kind of yeah you know overview of the case. But when you start to put all those pieces together, you know, the other guy, as a military base, saw something being loaded up on a Navy truck. It was something like a body, like a coffin-type thing. Hermetically sealed metal box, whatever. You know, you start to put all those aspects together and um and then the secrecy and the people being threatened and the and the

Starting point is 02:14:30 military trucks presence in the town of virginia and local residents being you know at gunpoint told they can't come through to get to their own house you know and and all of those things, it's such a crazy story. And I, you know, look, I get that knee-jerk reaction of there's no way this happened. This is too unbelievable. I don't even know, I can't even find a word in the English language to describe, like, how, you know, how. It's just, you can't wrap your mind around it. You can't, you know... If it happened, please tell me a story that's more significant than this.

Starting point is 02:15:12 I don't think there is one. I'm just begging you. I don't think there... If it happened... We'll find out why. Yeah, and it's like, it's just potentially the biggest story. And I don't have all the answers. I want more answers.

Starting point is 02:15:23 Yeah. I want military involvement from the United States. That's one of the things that came out while we were there. Coincidentally, and I don't think this had anything to do with us being there, the very control, radar control officer, you know the guys that sit at the airports with the towers and they monitor all the radar of objects coming in and out of Brazil and all that stuff?

Starting point is 02:15:43 Well, he was, you know, January 21st or 22nd. 1996. 1996. He came forward while we were in Brazil. I guess that would have been 2021. The guy watching the thing. The guy watching the radar scope. The guy that's with the Brazilian.

Starting point is 02:16:00 Now, he's also part of the military because you're, you know, anything to do with, I guess. And he, you could look. So he says that a plane came in from the United States Air Force, USAF, he calls it, USAF. And he said this plane came in and it didn't have the normal authorization from the Brazilian government to come in. There's a technical word for it. I'm sorry I don't remember the name of it off the top of my head. But you cannot just fly into Brazil without this authorization

Starting point is 02:16:32 from the Brazilian authorities. You have to get it. OVIV or OVAL or something. You can look it up. And I got the other guy's testimony here here you should actually take a look at it he basically says that they came in without british authorization they were going to come into sao paulo and instead they went to campinas campinas we have direct testimony i'll put the google errors on the corner of the screen or show a scene in the film. You can also do that too. Campinas is, it's Esposet's military base, and that is where the university is. All the scientists, prominent, like, doctors, school of education, like, there's Esposet's military base. It's all the heart of the intellectual heavyweights, the scientists, the scholars, the medicine.

Starting point is 02:17:31 Like, it's all out of that region. And the gentleman who is at Ezza military base, which is the heart of operations during this recovery of this thing, he— In Virginia? Yeah, it's outside Virginia. I think it's like— Like right Virginia? Yeah, it's outside Virginia. Like right there? Yeah, it's in the region. It's in the state of Minas Gerais. And the military base,

Starting point is 02:17:54 we show clips of the military base from the drone in the sky and blah, blah, blah. I can't believe that fucking drone didn't get shot down. I know, I know. I was like a little further, a little further, a little further. I was like, this might not end well. I was like a little further. Oh, God, a little further. I was like, this might not end well. I was like a little further. Oh, God.

Starting point is 02:18:06 Okay, turn it, abort, come back. I flew my drone over the military base. I wanted to get shots at the military base, but it was really sketchy. Mission accomplished. I know, mission accomplished. So what was I getting? Oh, yeah. So we have testimony from the very man that was at as a military base that picked up the

Starting point is 02:18:22 creatures from Humanitas Hospital. The creature or creature. This military x military x and by the way you didn't say this i want to make sure i i didn't miss this because maybe you left this out on purpose and i can re-edit this and take this out but one of the guys that the radiologist witnessed in the room had a camera oh yeah that was from military x yes that was from Military X you said that. Okay, well let's go to Military X. So Military X, and we've been aware of Military X

Starting point is 02:18:51 for some time. There were a handful of witnesses from as a military base that were concerned about their safety. They met with a fellow Brazilian researcher, researcher i'm sorry i'm trying to be very tactful on how i released this and they gave on camera statements in 1996 as a form of protection that if anything happened to them and their families that footage would be released and it's a full transparent and i'd seen it.

Starting point is 02:19:25 I'd seen the tapes. I'd been in touch with people, and I'm like, oh, my God. We can't, what do you mean we can't? This is people spilling the beans. This is all every aspect. No, it was only being released in 2030. So we'd been known about military action. He was one of the people that had done this, okay?

Starting point is 02:19:43 And we... Marco found him. That's a whole story. It's so incredible. You're Marco, not Marco Turez. Yeah, Marco Leal, my fellow co-producer, sorry. And Marco finds him. The way they finally meet, why are you interested?

Starting point is 02:20:01 So the witness, Military X, thinks that Marco Leal is an intelligence officer trying to find out if this guy's talking, trying to see if he's a weak link. This is like 20 years later. Did Eric Lopes make one of those tapes? Not that I know of. I've seen the tapes. I've seen all of it. So, no.

Starting point is 02:20:20 I mean, I haven't seen Eric Lopes on camera, no. When did they make those tapes? 1996. Yeah, but like a week after uh six months after i want to say maybe a month or so there was a press conference it's in the movie the press conference and during that press conference is when those tapes were being made right down the street okay so it's kind of crazy he's dead trey's he's dead yeah but trey's he did not make an on-camera statement right that's what i'm saying but he's dead, yeah. But Tracy did not make an on-camera statement like that. Right. That's what I'm saying, but he's dead.

Starting point is 02:20:45 Yeah. Interesting. Okay. So anyway, so we, you know, Marco was clearly trying to get Militariax to come forward. Militariax said, there's all the money in the world, I'm not gonna come forward, it's never gonna happen. You can just forget about that. But they became kind of friends. And while I was there I just said let me let me go meet this guy see if he'll just meet with me off the record just meet with me and to my surprise he agrees to meet with me Marco and I didn't dilly

Starting point is 02:21:16 dally I think we got into our car at night we drove up into the way hours way at north of Virginia and we arrived and boy could tell you, I felt like it was different. We were kind of in the depths of Brazil at that point. I stood out and we got to this place. It was like a road truck stop bar kind of place. It was at night and the bar kind of spilled out into the parking lot. Like there were chairs that were from the bar that just, more so than just the terrace, it just spilled out into the parking lot. Were you guys managing tails while you're down there?

Starting point is 02:21:53 Like, are you checking to see if you're being tailed everywhere? I mean, I was, you know... The paranoia started a little bit around this time. Okay. So we show up at this place, and people are looking at us. I mean, I stood out, really stood out, because, you know. You don't say. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:22:11 And so Military X is with another guy, younger guy, and they jump in the back of our car, and they're like, let's go. It's like, okay. They're like, where are we going? Like, it was a little sketchy. He takes us off 6, 8, 9, 10, 12 blocks away. We go to another restaurant that's go. It's like, okay. They're like, where are we going? Like, it was a little sketchy. He takes us off six, eight, nine,

Starting point is 02:22:26 10, 12 blocks away. We go to another restaurant that's outdoors and we sit outside and, um, the, uh, the waiter, this woman is like,

Starting point is 02:22:38 uh, well, what's going on here? What are you, who are you and what are you doing here? Who are you with these guys? Like, what's it,

Starting point is 02:22:43 you know, it's like, you know, what are you guys talking like you know just started asking all these questions but kind of like jokingly not like like like pleasantly like light-hearted but still she was curious like what the hell you guys do this is weird this is a weird situation what's going on you know kind of thing and uh military x jokes with her and goes oh we're talking about disneyland we all kind of laughed and all she, and she didn't ask any more questions. But we just talked, and I was looking him in the eyes, and I talked about the importance of, you know,

Starting point is 02:23:14 sometimes there are stories that are more important than individuals, you know and that this is kind of if this really happened this story is so much more important than any one of us this is a big story that could potentially have a greater impact on all of humanity and kind of thing you know and when you're asking him this and meeting with him because this before you interviewed him on camera obviously you do i look him in the eyes. You knew full well what his role allegedly was. Absolutely. I'd already seen it. 100%. There's no doubt about it.

Starting point is 02:23:52 Zero. I wouldn't be wasting my time. But meaning there wasn't, like, when you got him, what I really should ask is, when you got him on camera, there wasn't really anything surprising about... Oh, no, no. There was definitely more levels of detail well

Starting point is 02:24:06 okay so when i watched the tapes of this guy from back in 1996 i had it didn't have lower thirds so marco my partner leal would translate as much as he could as best he could and obviously what during the interview but when i had it professionally translated like professionally word for word everything and had multiple people go over it i got a level of detail for that for the first time that was pretty remarkable that's cool yeah but in any case at the dinner i i you know i i've done this a number of times before i did it in australia with with um the 66 sighting yeah the 66 side in westall with the with the with the t mr greenwald or yeah the teacher yeah greenwood yeah greenwood there was green one yeah i did it with him where i i look i look people in the eyes

Starting point is 02:24:55 and i look into their soul and like i you know i want like i i i just explain the potential significance of their story and that it matters more than us. And if everybody stuck to that level of secrecy, it's just not fair. This is something that we're all entitled to kind of thing. In a nice way, I get the fear factor and all that. And I think he enjoyed meeting me. I certainly enjoyed meeting

Starting point is 02:25:25 him. What did you see when you looked in his eyes? Oh, I saw about these other guys. Beautiful, beautiful human being. Like he was so kind, soft-spoken, measured. He had a character that was just soft and pleasant and jovial and just light. It just seemed like a really beautiful human being. Really. I really mean that. But I didn't talk to him a whole lot about the specifics. I didn't say, tell me what you saw. Like, what exactly, what did you, you know, I didn't get into that because I wasn't going to push his comfort zone. We were just getting to know each other a little bit. Told him what I've been up to for the last 20-whatever years, that kind of thing.

Starting point is 02:26:07 We just had a really nice meeting. And then we left, and we didn't say, you know, meet with us, go on, none of that. But we kind of continued communication, Marco and I, and then for whatever reason, he's getting separated from his wife or something, there's something going on, there's a very small window where he's suddenly considering meeting with us and giving the story. And it's, I don't remember exactly what day it was.

Starting point is 02:26:30 I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say it was, let's just say it was a Sunday. Okay. I could be off. I don't remember. But it was a couple of days after we'd met with him. And he's suddenly thinking that maybe, just maybe, he might meet with us and do an on-camera thing like on a Wednesday. He's just flirting with the idea.

Starting point is 02:26:54 So I see an opening, and Marco's going back and forth. We want his testimony so badly. The guy who potentially drove this thing around at the military base, I've seen all the photographs of him at the base. I mean, the guy is exactly who he says he is. I see an opening. And I know in the past that when there's an opening, you don't let it shut. And you don't let him sleep on it. You act now. Because if they're in the moment,

Starting point is 02:27:22 if you let them think too much, like if he had gone to sleep that night, guess what? He would have gone, what am I thinking? Like, no, absolutely. I guarantee you that would have happened. He was oscillating. He was right on the fence. He was doing this. Our meeting was fairly fresh.

Starting point is 02:27:39 So I said, you tell him we're coming right now. And he's like, well, I don't really know where he's going to meet. I don't know if we can do it here. I want to be seen with this. I said, we're coming right now and he's like well you know i really know where he's going to meet i don't know if we do it here i don't know i want to be seen with this i said we're on our way i'm taking a chance load up the cars rock and roll baby let's go and we're driving it's like a four three or four hour drive to the north and um you know he was texting with marco they were on app signal or something i don't remember what what signal. They were on something. And they were kind of going back and forth. It was like, oh, we can meet here. We had no

Starting point is 02:28:10 meeting place. Oh, I don't know. It was like this. We're on our way. Finally, his biggest fear, we had one building that we could have met at, but it didn't have any power. We needed power. We needed light. So he's like, I can't be there. You damn straight ain't coming to my house. Like, that's not going to happen, you know. And i can't be seen in public with you i can't you know none

Starting point is 02:28:29 of these things he was so paranoid so i was like well let's get a hotel room and we'll rent the hotel room we'll we'll sneak all of our gear to the best of our ability into the hotel room and then he just shows up the hotel room walks in the lobby and up he goes to our room he's never never seen together we're in a hotel room of our choice we know it's not bugged we know it's not you know there's no way because we picked this hotel so he seems to take to that and we have a certain period of time and we that's that's how we did it we went to the hotel room and we set up very last minute and uh got him in the room and I was my biggest fear was let's just say that we arrived unless he was there with us to a poor unless he had to stay in the parking lot dance and you ain't gonna see any of it

Starting point is 02:29:14 but but my biggest fear was is that military X would arrive and we're still unloading camera gear and tripods out of the damn car in the parking lot he would just like I'd say I'm out of here i told these guys i wouldn't you know what i mean he had this little teeny room we had a tiny little room and we had a narrow window like this and it was so precarious at any moment this guy was going to get cold feet and leave but we did it and you had it from the back with his voice changed that was it that was the only option and it was... What did he say? He said the day started out like normal. Every day at the base.

Starting point is 02:29:54 And then he said that he got a call. He was summoned. That's the word that he used. He was summoned in, that he was going to go on a mission. It was a secret mission. He was with some other fellow guys from S2, which is military intelligence. And he was going to be driving a truck, and he was going to be following another vehicle. It was a Kombi, which is a Volkswagen bus. uh this bus they arrive at one downtown virginia then they get to uh either one hospital then they go to another they go to the back side of a humanitas hospital and they pull their trucks up the back side of the humanitas hospital and they get out and they go inside and there's like a military presence doctors people with clipboards and there's a creature on the table inside of a

Starting point is 02:30:42 body like a box and he sees like he sees the knee down of a body, like a box. And he sees, like... He sees the knee down. He sees everybody looking at it, and he walks in, and I don't think that he was supposed to see it. He walks in, not really knowing what the hell's going on, and he sees this creature from a little above the kneecap down in a box. He sees the toes sticking out, right? He sees the leg, part of the leg brown skin oily greasy just

Starting point is 02:31:07 like everybody talked he sees his v-shaped foot in the cask he sees the look on everyone's faces how freaked out they are and uh he said he got in and he felt like over his head he was really like holy shit what am i looking at uh yeah can you find it i'm trying to find it right now because you guys had that what was really compelling is you had the image on there where it shows the creature like in the box yeah just don't I want it I don't want to show a ton of this testimony there we go oh yeah backing up from right there from right like here yeah yeah that's good six did I say that I said to him put me in that room that's what I always tell tell people. It's such a good question, man.

Starting point is 02:31:45 I love that. So this is 1655. I felt a climate of tension. I'm translating again. A climate of tension. Everyone looked at everyone else, wondering what was going on. That's the truth.

Starting point is 02:32:05 What caught my attention, which I forgot to say, was going on. That's the truth. What caught my attention, which I forgot to say, was the foot. It was like this. This is what I asked you about earlier with the third nub. Practically two fingers, but he's holding that thumb out

Starting point is 02:32:17 like it's three. When you looked and you saw the leg or part of the leg Is this where the graphic comes in? With the V, right? What did he think? What got my attention, what led me to believe that it wasn't a human being was the foot.

Starting point is 02:32:38 And you're showing his hand again. Close. Everybody was shocked. Very shocked. I looked at it, then looked away because I got scared. What is that? When I looked, my expression changed.

Starting point is 02:32:58 I was in over my head with the situation. They did this. Like, get out. The soldier, I think it was. The soldier from the fire department. in over my head with the situation. They did this, like, get out. The soldier, I think it was, the soldier from the fire department, leave, leave, leave.

Starting point is 02:33:15 So I took a step back and turned around. But before I left, I remember to the right of the box, there was a soldier with a camera. There it is. That's the shot. But he wasn't filming. he had it hanging here he's pointing to his shoulder he had it hanging here and then this is the shot you got of asia military base roll it just a second longer because i asked him about photographic evidence right according to witnesses the army operations can from here. Unbelievable.

Starting point is 02:33:47 Is there filmed footage, video footage, of the creature that he knows about? He asked if there was any copy, because Marco's translating right now, that was shot at the hospital that was brought to your attention. And now he's going to answer, yes. They have it for sure.

Starting point is 02:34:03 For sure. Military X says that on January... All right right we'll stop it there yeah so this was this is the central thing and i jumped the gun on this earlier a little bit but that means that there is that this guy is claiming that they took a video of this and they have it and where i'll disagree is it doesn't I don't know that it necessarily Means and I don't have the benefit of the research you've done here So you can fill me in but I don't know if it necessarily means that those guys would still have it But what it what it does mean is that if that guy had a fucking camera and the bias of course they took a video So there's a video that exists. He's right about that

Starting point is 02:34:42 So, let me let me let me Let's see. How could I say this? I have spoken with three, four. I've spoken with personally four people that have seen photographic evidence of the creature. Foot, like a still frame or the video? Both. Who are these people?

Starting point is 02:35:13 Well, I can talk about two of them. That's good enough. So the reason why I can talk about the two of them is because the New York Post did some probing and I helped them. And I neglected to say earlier, I said that Uba Dajara, one of the leading researchers, has completely done it when he won't talk to anybody anymore. And then I said that the other guy, Clodio Covo, also a leading researcher on the case, he's dead.

Starting point is 02:35:38 And there was another guy named Peccaccini, and he vanished. Gone. For, like, since 2004 or 5. Nobody could reach the guy. And when this film was about to come out, Pacaccini resurfaced. Excuse me. And Pacaccini, again, was one of the leading researchers.

Starting point is 02:35:57 Pacaccini was involved in more research on this case than probably, I mean, right there with Uberajara and maybe more. Pacaccini revealed for the first time ever that he was shown footage. He's got the name of the person. He knows where it was. 35 seconds of footage of the creature. It was alive.

Starting point is 02:36:16 And he gave those details. But it was dead by the time Military X saw it. No, it could have been another one. We don't know. Okay. That one was alive. And he doesn't know where it was. He said it wasn't in a and he said it wasn't the the footage shows a creature that was feeble it was like like i think he said it was sitting down

Starting point is 02:36:33 or maybe there are two officers holding it but it was feeble he looks like it was dying and he said that it was a shot on uh video and it was 35 seconds long and there the they had protective gear on They had masks they had gloves and they were one soldier here one soldier here holding the creature up It was weak and feeble and it was like a child size Yeah, smaller like four and a half feet or something like that and they're holding it up, but it was feeble this is according to packaging and That they were trying to give it water and it but it wouldn't drink and they were trying to give it fruit and it wouldn't it wouldn't eat that either but he said it

Starting point is 02:37:12 looked like it was dying it was not it didn't look but it was exact description of what the girls had seen then there was another woman that we that we found was so we we located a photograph we were on our way to this person's house, and at the last minute, he got cold feet and wouldn't even meet with us and said he was concerned about his own security. And this was like probably the third or fourth day when we got there on this last month long trip. But a friend of his was shown the photograph, two friends of his, one of them them just died and the other one was a woman and that woman gave us detailed description of what that photograph said and it was two beans

Starting point is 02:37:49 one alive and she's the other one looked like dead and it had um fire department and military police in the background a couple people and uh and i said well how do you know one was dead she said it was on its line on the ground or something another one was either standing or being held or something but you could clearly see that one of them was alive so that account went went into the new york post in an article i think about a month and a half ago and um and then but this guy had to drive it out right so after this happens the military guy has to put it in his truck and wait for the Blackhawks you talked about, right? Yeah, so they leave Humanitas Hospital and they go to

Starting point is 02:38:30 Ezza Military Base for the night and the creature is in the back of the truck And is it just Military X in the car or does he have a partner? There's a small convoy But the creature's in his I believe that he was driving the truck alone but there was a convoy there were other trucks But the creature creatures in his I believe that he was driving the truck alone, but there was a convoy There were other trucks, but he but the creatures in his truck creature was in his truck

Starting point is 02:38:48 And he's told to go park it like against the wall as a back it up against the wall It has a and wait and wait for the night. Yes, and now cue back to the to the Person reviewing like the air traffic you were talking about. Well, this comes after so I'll tell you a second So so he spends the night and has a military base and then from as a military base he takes it to um uh it's it's campinas espousex military base in campinas um unicomp it's a whole we show a map in the film so while this is all going on because this is kind of the first time that we got testimony from an alleged, you know, military officer that was at EZA that transported this thing around.

Starting point is 02:39:31 So we get very credible testimony that this thing ended up at Campinas. I said at the time on camera to Military X, then what happened? So you dropped this thing off at camp penis what happened what happened after that and he says i can't say for sure because i wasn't there but the rumors on the base were that the americans came in so i got that that seed planted from military acts pretty early on in fact every other military and civilian witness that i spoke to, I always asked, like, where did it go?

Starting point is 02:40:05 If this happened, where did it go? And they all said Americans got involved. They all told me that. While we were in Brazil, the radar control officer who was on duty, and I can't remember the date. It was either January 21st or January 22nd, right around this time, 1996, he said USAF, that's the United States Air Force, USAF flight come in, and it didn't have authorization from the Brazilian government, and it landed in Campinas. And then two helicopters went from Campinas to Virginia. Okay.

Starting point is 02:40:50 And then from Virginia back to Campinas. And at this point, though, you said the truck is at Campinas. The truck was at Campinas. Okay. And then the United States Air Force something was loaded onto that plane, and then it flew back to the States, and that's it. And that's all we know. How do we know that the tapes weren't loaded on?

Starting point is 02:41:07 Well, you said you have four people who have seen it, which means they would have seen it after this. So I will, let's see how much more I can reveal without jeopardizing my efforts. Let's put it this way. The creatures spent time at Regional and Humanitas Hospital. There are people there with resources. Got it. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:41:30 Okay. So. But you also didn't say in the documentary, but you were just telling us earlier today off camera. Right when you finished, it sounded like with like Military X and you were like done these interviews with the with the daughters and everybody like soza all these people got visited one by one by essa so so this all took place over it was the last sort of week of production doors were really opening like things were really happening the mayor was getting involved we tracked down eric lopes we met with military x military x was considering opening a few other doors for us things were happening it was very exciting but it was also a little spooky

Starting point is 02:42:10 like i felt we all kind of felt like on edge especially after the death threat you had that right well the threat of violence from from eric lope oh right right we're on it we're on his radar now he was probably ticked off now he's probably notifying the military. Who knows? Like, you know, they found me. They're trying to get a statement out of me. They're probing me. They're coming on my property.

Starting point is 02:42:33 Did you have a plan to be able to get multiple copies of your film out of there? Yeah, I did. Yes, I did. I did that. Yes. After Eric Lopes, I went straight to FedEx, copied all that data, everything that every interview that I'd done to date and FedExed it off to America. You weren't worried that it was going to get intercepted at FedEx, copied all that data, every interview that I'd done to date, and FedExed it off to America. You weren't worried that it was going to get intercepted at FedEx?

Starting point is 02:42:49 I was. Of course I was. But it was the best I could do. But then you saw it made it. Yes, it did. Right. Yeah, I was worried about all the above. I was super paranoid. Are you kidding? Yeah.

Starting point is 02:42:57 So then there were some doors opening for military acts. It was pretty intense. I mean, if we had, like, well, if the one thing i'm about to tell you didn't happen and we had another couple weeks i'm i mean i'm fairly confident that we might have gotten our hands on some more evidence certainly testimony probably evidence too but in any case remember uh it's weird. So people that we had either just met with or that we were about to meet with suddenly got phone calls from as a military base.

Starting point is 02:43:38 Who called them? Military base. Yeah, but was it just like some sergeant at the front desk or was it? Military base. That's all I know. Yeah, it was as a military base. Whoever, I don't know. I didn't get more details in the military base calling. And they said to Military X, hey, this is whatever.

Starting point is 02:44:02 You're still living over at this address? Oh, good, good, yeah yeah how's the family doing yeah you guys doing well oh good good yeah hey uh there's a american uh documentary film crew they are poking around um you didn't by chance meet with them or did they contact you yeah dude they did that. And now he's on camera. They can tell the back of his head, I assume. Yeah, and then... the people that we were about to meet with,

Starting point is 02:44:34 they got summoned into the base. And this time, they got summoned into the base. Are you allowed to say who they are? No, I don't... No. And so they got summoned in the base. So we were told at that point, you know, get the hell out of... Like, you guys just don't know. Yeah, that's fair. And so they got summoned to the base. So we were told at that point, you know, get the hell out of it. Like, you guys just don't come near us. Stay clear.

Starting point is 02:44:50 Like, the situation is super hot right now. They're all over us. They know about you. They know you're poking around. Like, if I were you, I'd get the hell out of here. And so we did. We did. Wow. And that's when I FedExed. Right around that time, I FedExed the tapes back, but we were, look, here's my best determination of the level of danger we may or may not have been in, and this is that. This is that. Their own men, their own people in the military were threatened.

Starting point is 02:45:30 We know that for a fact, because every one of them told us that. Even the people that did the x-rays don't talk about this. The consequences of sharing this story will be severe, is what they said. As far as I know, not one of the witnesses said, we will kill you. They just said the consequences for violating this, you're taking this to the grave will be very severe uh jail death whatever family you know just these people were terrified they're terrified 26 years later now now you got a gringo camera crew poking around i'm not even you know poking around like think about like if they're going to threaten their own people that were involved that worked for them what on earth would

Starting point is 02:46:14 they do to us so i just got super spooked you know and um we got the hell out. And, you know, I want to go back and I will go back because I can't, I can't walk away from how close we've gotten, but I'm just trying to figure out when that's going to be. I've got an eight year old son. If I didn't have an eight year old son and I wasn't in a relationship with a beautiful woman and the mother of my child, it would be a lot easier decision for me. But I got to think about, I have a son, you know? Yeah. And yeah, I got a lot on the line. And so I got to think about my security and weigh the pros and cons. I mean, this has been a lifelong effort for mine, and I'm suddenly within striking range of potentially the biggest piece of evidence

Starting point is 02:47:02 in the history of the phenomenon. I'm getting so close to it, I'm talking to people that know where it is and have seen it. Do you know what that feels like for me? I can't imagine. Yeah, it's like you could see it. You could see something you've been going after for 30 years and there it is, it's right there. Do you think you're gonna get your hands on that video?

Starting point is 02:47:22 I'd say 50-50. Will it be released in my lifetime 100% 100% yeah I feel about 100% 99.9 do you think you'll meet an alien before you die would love to that's a hedge of an answer that's just a hope I think it a, you know, one thing that I've learned, never say never. Never have that knee-jerk response that we all have, myself included, multiple times I've proven myself wrong, wrong where I just think this is impossible this didn't happen because it can't happen it couldn't have happened and you have that and myself I'm guilty of it myself and I'm researching this stuff and I get it I just say like never say never and suspend judgment just long enough to at least consider the possibility

Starting point is 02:48:30 if this story did happen it's undoubtedly the most significant event in modern history i can't think of a bigger story so it merits further investigation it merits further attention I'm hoping that this is just this is just gonna trigger a landslide of stuff I know there's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes which I'm helping out with discussions there's a huge dollar amount that we put reward for the footage we've even said we'd make a massive donation to the children of Virginia for schools and education and medicine. That I put on the table. So if you're not concerned about yourself, if you feel like you've got enough resources, you're not willing to risk, you can do it anonymously. You can do it publicly. You can do it however you want it.

Starting point is 02:49:22 And we would make a significant donation to the city of Virginia for the children. And that's gotten people to consider it. And we'll see what happens. One of the things I remember from the documentary that I believe it was like the Men in Black said to maybe it was the mother of the daughters, I might be getting some people mixed up here though,

Starting point is 02:49:41 was a warning they were given was something along the lines of if this news got out the population would collapse yeah so okay so this is yeah that's pretty cool so the mother of the deceased military officer police officer marco treasy's mother she got a visit from the military and they said to her it's true what happened. But if this story gets out, society would collapse. Why do you think they said that? Society as you know it would collapse.

Starting point is 02:50:11 Why do you think they said that? Because that's gonna lead into a main question I have. Well, you remember when the girls... saw the creature, they were Catholic, and they thought it was the devil. And it was bringing in everything into question and they were terrified. Is there an element of religion that they're concerned with?

Starting point is 02:50:32 Is it gonna make everyone reconsider the origins of man or the big... I don't know. Or are they gonna come here, kill people? Yeah, have... has my... uh, has my life changed from what I've learned in the years, the 30 years that I've been doing this? It has in the sense that it's expanded my view of, with our place in the universe, that we're just one part of a much more intricate, complex life system out there. I wonder, like, is it interdimensional?

Starting point is 02:51:20 Is it time travel? Is it creatures that live underground? Is it interdimensional, interplanetary? Is it all of the above? Maybe it is. I honestly, after all these years and all the military men and the scientific community that I've talked to, both on and off the record, I don't think anyone truly knows has all the answers. In fact, I'm certain of it, that they don't have all the answers. And I'll remind you...

Starting point is 02:51:47 Sure, I agree. Remind your audience, people always say, why on earth would any governing body not come forward and share what potentially could be one of the biggest revelations of modern time, something that could unite the entire race the entire planet and that is we're not alone and i had a military guy tell me he was almost laughing at me when i brought this up u.s military yes and he goes yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i said wow this would be the biggest story of mankind we're not alone this would be great it's amazing mankind. We're not alone. This would be great. It's amazing. He goes, yeah, you're looking at it all wrong, kid. I'm like, well, how am I supposed to look at it?

Starting point is 02:52:29 He goes, look at it this way. This is from our perspective. We are paid to protect you. We are paid to control the airspace. There are objects clearly under intelligent control flying around in sensitive airspace, flying rings around our fastest jets. Shall they show up to be hostile? Not saying they are, but if they were, we have no visible means of defense against them.

Starting point is 02:53:01 We don't know who they are, where they from or what they want right so they don't want the cat out this i've been reading it they don't want the cat out of the bag because they don't want to spook whatever is out there because you're gonna well you're gonna reveal what you know and at the same time you're gonna reveal all the things you don't know in your vulnerabilities and that's the problem and that's the way it was explained to me. And that actually, excuse me, that makes sense. It makes sense to me. I don't agree with it, but it makes sense. That line of like what secrets are too big that people can't know and there's other human beings who get to decide that those people can't know is a very scary, scary, very not black and white line.

Starting point is 02:53:41 And I fall on both sides of the issue at given moments on all a lot of the big key issues and this is no different but you look at aliens and it's like my first inclination is half the reason is because they're already here like i look at people around there i look like a xi jinping i look i look at a donald trump i look at i look at an elon musk it doesn't have to be bad right like and i'm like that might be an alien steve jobs steve jobs might be an alien steve jobs could have been an alien jobs was adopted or maybe we all are we're an alien we're an alien to somebody maybe it's well we are that's right but like to our own planet like maybe it's – well, we are. That's right. But like to our own planet, like maybe it's a simulation. I don't know what the fuck it is.

Starting point is 02:54:32 But you look at art over time and you look at – let's just say like keep it simple, the last century. And you see these drawings because like I've never looked into – I should do this deep dive. I've never looked into like 16th century, 17th century, 18th century like artist renditions of like an alien or something or how much there was. So I'll do that later. But you look at like the 20th century and into the 21st century, whether it started with drawings and whatever and move towards movies where they make something look a certain way. And we all when someone says alien, we all picture a very similar thing. And it's very similar to what these people saw. And so I always look at this and I go, art imitates life and it imitates the knowledge of something. So along the rabbit holes, or not the rabbit holes, but along the deep web ties to the people who make these movies, all the way up to the comedies

Starting point is 02:55:19 like Men in Black to movies like Alien, which is, that one was a little different, or, you know, E.T., that's a good example. Let me give you an example of something. I know exactly what you're getting at here. So you take close encounters of the third kind that was made in 1977 yeah by um none other than steven spielberg steven spielberg has features the creatures and all that stuff so all those reports including richard dreyfus's face being burned came directly out out of Project Blue Book files, the Air Force's own files. Steven Spielberg had a cameo appearance of Dr. Jalen Hynek, who investigated UFO reports in an official capacity for the United States Air Force.

Starting point is 02:56:01 And those close encounters of the third kind that we talked about earlier that's when the witnesses you know claim to see occupants beans associated with the craft those depictions from the witnesses were taken out of the files and right into the movie close encounters of the third kind and there you go that's it so they got all that information flight characteristics what the ufos look like what the beans look like out of project blue book files it's absurd it definitely and heinick has a cameo appearance most people don't know that there's heinick smoking a cigar during the yeah that's heinick there there is there is an interesting tie there and i'm i just i have believed that myself over the

Starting point is 02:56:47 past year and a half or two years like i told you less he got me really into this like a year ago but like as an outside just kind of like you know sitting back and letting out a deep breath like jesus christ i can't believe everything that's going on out there and thinking like i've had that thought of like you know what they might be a fucking alien or that person might be an ant like they're probably not from this planet and when you think about all the conspiracies many of which are wild and and then detract from ones that actually are real fact is stranger than fiction yeah it's i get like i sit up at night sometimes not even like when i'm baked and i just like think about this and i'm like what if that's the what if that's part of the meaning here you know you know uh by the way if i if i this is the longest podcast i've ever done in my life well including the what's going to be the first podcast

Starting point is 02:57:36 unbelievable i hope i don't look i hope i don't look i'm you know am i okay still after now you're doing great this happens this has happened I had a little extra coffee. This has happened now. I needed my little coffee break. Five times before where Alex Horowitz early on, Jim DiIorio one time for 73-74, Tim McBride for 105-106, and then another one I just recorded that I'm holding where people are going and I'm not going to stop them, so I just make it two podcasts. You know, what's so nice about it is that I realize as someone who's researched this for all these years, I don't like daily think about all these

Starting point is 02:58:14 different, you know, they're swirling around in my head. But when I came on with you, I suddenly felt this river of information just flowing through me that's good and realizing like my god it's so great to be able to get some of this out because there's so many when you make a movie you shoot hundreds and hundreds of hours hundreds of that we're all gonna see now yeah and a lot of that material ends up on the cutting room for, not because it's not good. You have two hours. You simply can't squeeze it all in.

Starting point is 02:58:50 You know, I did a Senator Harry Reid. Do you know how much bonus material Senator Harry Reid? I'm the only person that got Senator Harry Reid on camera before his cancer diagnosis. Jeez. So he's walking. He's doing well. He's totally normal and he within weeks of that he got he went into like you know he had pancreatic cancer and he went into treatment he was weak he

Starting point is 02:59:12 was in a wheelchair he couldn't he was he was old but that doesn't make you think but he was healthy that was perfectly fine i don't know oh come on suddenly on. Suddenly like, oh, Harry, you talked, buddy. Hate to see you go. And you know what? Harry had no intention of this program ever to be revealed. I mean, he signed something to talk with you, obviously, right? Well, no, yeah, but it was on the front page of the New York Times. It was exposed, what he started.

Starting point is 02:59:41 Look, he kept it secret. Like I said earlier, he kept it secret through the tail end of the Bush administration all the way through the Obama administration What year again did you talk on him in in? 2000 and 17 or 18. Ooh 18 or 19. Well right before he retired. He had just retired Months months later, right? Okay. Yeah just retired and then you killed him oh yeah i'm kidding no i have tremendous respect the fact that the former senate major leader i mean that's a big decision to make well i just got this whole like career spanning decades and you're going to go out with talking

Starting point is 03:00:18 about ufos i mean that was kind of a risky minute move he was he was so like he said matter of fact about it this is what i'll never forget and you by the way you didn't tell in the first podcast we got off it you didn't tell the story about how the interview almost didn't happen so say this and then tell that story okay so you say what say the thing you were just going to say i don't want to stop you oh oh my god no let me tell let me tell you the senator harry reid thing first because okay you know in a career of mine with i've got 50 years of denial which, which I sold to Discovery Channel, no comment. Then I did Out of the Blue 1, Out of the Blue 2. Then I did I Know What I Saw.

Starting point is 03:00:52 Then I did The Phenomenon, and suddenly I'm doing The Phenomenon. And suddenly I've got the opportunity to interview a household name, someone who's never gone on the record talking about UFOs in the past, former Senate Majority Leader, one of the most powerful men in America. And it's like, and I wasn't talking to my partner Rebecca about it. I wasn't talking to my friends about it. It was all brewing behind the scenes. I didn't want to jinx it. It was like, you know, it's going to happen. Because, you know, sometimes someone will get cold feet, for whatever reason, they'll just be like, you know what, I get cold feet or for whatever reason they'll just be like you know what i thought about it i'm not going to do it so don't talk about it let's go get

Starting point is 03:01:29 it done so i with months of of back and forth at least maybe two months of back and forth three months of back and forth uh maybe longer right around that period of time, George Knapp is being incredibly mandatory, like I couldn't have done it without him, ever. And then he agrees to do it. We get all the camera crew to Las Vegas, and we're going to meet in the Las Vegas

Starting point is 03:01:58 University. So L-A-U or something or L-A... Anyway. We meet at his office and then there's a library. UNLV? Yeah, it would have been University of Nevada, Las Vegas? Probably, yeah. Okay, got it.

Starting point is 03:02:13 University of Las Vegas. And we meet at that instead of... Because he also had an office in the Bellagio. They didn't want to do it there. Of course he did. That's great. And he... It's all happening.

Starting point is 03:02:24 I'm in touch with his uh assistant i think her name was kate and um going back and forth everything's going great here's the directions we're going to do it tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock whatever he's going to have 55 minutes and gonna show up here we'll let you guys in a little early so you can get set up here's the directions well that night my uh wonderful director of photography david west uh his son i guess was bullied at school and uh and his wife called and he was all distraught and i guess he got hit and he went to the hospital for like whatever little scratch or cut or had to get some stitches and he he was distraught, rightfully so. And he was up all night.

Starting point is 03:03:08 And I guess the next morning, Dave was going to leave early. And he was going to get set up because there's a lot. Setting up all the lights and getting the whole, you know, we wanted to get plenty of time to do all that. Got the sound guy coming, lighting. And really, it was my biggest interview of my life, my whole career. We got the camera set up. I even went as far as the backdrop, which was a library,

Starting point is 03:03:31 and I was putting the books in the right order and color coordinating them. I spent like a half an hour, 45 minutes just getting the books looking great. Danny Jones would be proud of you for that. And rechecking the scene, getting everything set up, and we're minutes away. I get a text from the very man, George Knapp, who set this whole thing up, who's instrumental in setting this whole thing up.

Starting point is 03:03:56 And he says, call me immediately. Like, fucking right now. I was like, oh, my God. Jesus. I was like, oh, God. Jesus. I looked at him like, God, what happened? So, of course, I called him immediately. And he goes, this interview is about to be terminated. I was like, this is so left field.

Starting point is 03:04:20 For what? We're here. Yeah. And he says, someone on your crew is being a complete, like, beep, beep, wad. You can say what you want. Yeah, I know, but I don't want to reveal what he said because it's his words. But he was, like, you know, very explicit, and he was very upset. Someone on your team is being a complete, is there someone drunk on your, like, do you have a drunk person

Starting point is 03:04:47 who's verbally abusing his assistant, Kate? I'm like, oh my God, they're about to walk away. This interview is about to be termed. You're seconds away from being terminated. Oh my God, my heart sank. I'm looking around the room and I'm seeing like the audio guy there's another assistant that we had and there's an audio guy that I just met how my god I don't even know him he's he looks so nice like what's your problem

Starting point is 03:05:15 motherfucker everybody I'm like looking and I look over and I see Dave the director of photography and I see him and I look at him across the room, and I looked at him, and he looks back at me, and he's like, he's setting up a tripod or something. He's like, what? And I just looked at him, and I was like, that's the weak link. That must have been Dave. He was up all night, whatever.

Starting point is 03:05:40 He goes, I suggest you do some damage control, and you do it now. He said that to you? George Knapp said that to me. Oh, George said that to you. I suggest you do some damage control, and you do it now. He said that to you? George Knapp said that to me. Oh, George said that to you. I suggest you do some damage. I'm on the phone with George Knapp as I'm scanning the room. I'm like, what the hell is going on? Who is this here?

Starting point is 03:05:53 So I'm looking around, and I was like, it must be Dave. And Dave, like I said, Dave's like, look at me like, what? Like, you know. I was like, we'll talk later. He goes, I suggest you do damage controls, what George Kpp says he is on it, and I would do it now So I call Kate you know the right-hand person of Senator Harry Reid I Called her up, and she's like oh hello, and she's like um there's somebody like drinking or something Crew as my, absolutely not.

Starting point is 03:06:26 It's a long story. Kate got beat up. Please show up now. I said, I'm so sorry. What happened? She's like, I've been working for Senator Reid for over 10 years. I've never had anybody be so rude to me and just cranky and cantankerous. It just was like, I thought maybe were you guys out drinking all night?

Starting point is 03:06:43 I was like, absolutely not, Kate. I said, I'm so sorry. I said, Dave's son was bullied at school. He got punched. He was hospitalized. He had to get stitches. Dave was fretting all night. He was up early to get set up.

Starting point is 03:06:58 I guess he must have been flustered. Maybe perhaps he couldn't find the address. He called you and vented. I'm so sorry. This is unlike him. I've been working with him for 10 years. He's a polished professional under any other circumstances. I can't emphasize the level of apology.

Starting point is 03:07:16 It's never happening. And she said, okay, okay. Well, I really appreciate you explaining that because you know i thought maybe he was drunk or you know he was really angry and i'm just looking at dave it's like i can't believe you almost blew this hole like you know and dave i'm sorry if you watch this and you're upset that i'm exposing this but it is a pretty funny story all all's well that ends well everybody understands yeah but it was like that's it was you know that the thing is, it's like it's never a done deal until it's done deal. I've showed up with other witnesses

Starting point is 03:07:50 to do interviews and they got cold feet when I arrived. I had a whole interview set up, excuse me, with Buzz Aldrin. Landed on the moon with Neil Armstrong, Apollo 11. His sister, Faye Ann Potter, and I were friends. She revealed his encounters with UFOs. Yada, yada, yada.

Starting point is 03:08:06 Got to France. I borrowed money because I was going to interview... Buzz Aldrin. Buzz Aldrin. Yeah. Get there. I fly to France. I borrowed money, got a camera, go get all the way there,

Starting point is 03:08:20 and he pulls the carpet out from underneath me. I keep waiting day after day after day. So I've learned in the past. You think, you know, believe me when I tell you, it ain't a done deal until it's a done deal. Until she's naked in my bed and the contract's in my fucking account. That's it. Until the cash is in the account.

Starting point is 03:08:36 Yep. Until the cash is in the account. I'm not going to say cash. Yeah, exactly. So anyway, my point is, so that's why even with military acts, I was super paranoid he was going to have a second. You know, because people like in the moment, you're on the phone with them and they're feeling pumped and jazzed. And all of a sudden you hang up and they're driving to go do it.

Starting point is 03:08:53 And they go, that voice comes on and says, maybe this isn't such a good idea. Like, what are you really gaining out of doing this? You're putting your family's life in jeopardy. You know, for Buzz Aldrin, he was was like my story is not going to change anything anyway and it's going to jeopardize undoubtedly my efforts to get money to to raise money for you know with congress to develop rockets are going to put citizens in space that was his whole thing so anyway my point is is that like i've said a million times it ain't it ain't over till you got the the cats in the bag well speaking of it ain't over what's what's this next documentary

Starting point is 03:09:30 you got going because it sounds like you're building on yeah so phenomenon more than anything yeah well at least some of the people you talked with in there, I should say. I'm sorry. I've met with a lot of military people who have personally handed over unambiguous, crystal clear, broad daylight footage of UFOs. UFOs chasing rockets at Vandenberg Air Force Base, Atlas rockets, UFOs landing at Edwards Air Force Base circa 1957, photographic evidence from Phoenix, both civilian, primarily military, that gets handed over to some unknown government agency. So I've been hearing this for a while, and I can back it up with proof of on-camera, you know, that I've taken personally from the witnesses who personally handed the physical taped evidence over to the government. So I've been hearing this for a while.

Starting point is 03:10:28 Then I meet with Senator Harry Reid, and he confirms with me that what's been released, what's been seen, what is known, is only the tip of the iceberg, okay? So all that's swirling around in my head, and I know it from, you know, the military guys that handled it. the tip of the iceberg, okay? So all that's swirling around in my head. And I know it from the military guys that handled it. I know it got a confirmation from the guy that ran the secret UFO Pentagon program who launched it, Senator Harry Reid, who confirms it on camera, kind of a big deal. So then I'm traveling to Brazil about this alleged UFO crash, and now we're talking bodies, and we're talking debris. And I find out when we're there that it all went to the United States.

Starting point is 03:11:13 So what am I thinking? Where is it? Who has the authority to release it? So I want to go pound the streets in D.C. I want to address these rumblings of recovered debris and bodies, which has been happening. You can look it up. Even in the New Yorker, I think in 2019, there's talk about it.

Starting point is 03:11:36 Reed has talked about it. There's people part of Roswell that have talked about it. There's rumblings, very credible people, that are talking about recovered material. There's laboratories that are apparently very credible people that are talking about recovered material. There's laboratories that are apparently analyzing some of this material. There's that leaked memo by Davies about recovered material. So it's been, you know, the curtain's been drawn back a little bit. I want to find out where is this evidence? Who has the authority to release it?

Starting point is 03:12:07 Because ultimately that's the natural transition from where I've been, where my thought process has been, and where this needs to go. Look, we're going to move forward on the assumption the phenomenon's real. That's been established. That's been beaten to death. Where's the evidence? Who has the authority to release it? Is it in the hands of the private

Starting point is 03:12:25 sector? Is it free from oversight from the members of Congress? There's a new law signed in, sorry, a new act signed into law that basically, in a simplified explanation, provides immunity for witnesses to come forward without fear of prosecution or violating the national security oath. That's it. That was signed into law, I think a day before Christmas, something like that. And you're making this one with Christopher Mellon? You know, I'm having help with people. Gotcha.

Starting point is 03:12:56 Yes, on the inside. I've got help with people, yes. So, you know, we'll see how far I get. Um, this is potentially some of the most guarded secrets but you know uh we're not going to get anything if we don't go there and try so right and that's a crazy one though yeah it's like going right to the belly of the beast it's going to the belly of the beast and and you know maybe it's time maybe it's time and i think there are some people out there, and this recent

Starting point is 03:13:25 bill that passed, that was signed into law just a couple of weeks ago, it would provide immunity. And I'm hearing that there are already people queuing up to go through the process, and it's got to get approved with Congress and stuff like that. But believe me, there are members of Congress that want the truth out too. So the intelligence the people the goods are more are less inclined to want this out they're gonna have egg all over their face and it doesn't really that doesn't benefit them in any way coming this out but people have had it you know there's a new you know the people from the 40s and 50s have died off and there's a new generation of people that want this out there's some that don't obviously but um yeah so that's that's pretty much what I want to go after.

Starting point is 03:14:07 So you're going to film that this year with the idea of putting it out in 2023? Yeah. 2023, 2024, in the next year or so. Because you're trying to do... You were saying you want to try to do it every other year? But listen, when you finish a movie, you've got deliverables,

Starting point is 03:14:23 you've got sound design, you've got sound composition, you've got sound mix, you've got sound design, you've got sound composition, you've got sound mix, you've got color correction. Then you get in the queue, you make the deliverables to the distribution company, whoever that might be. Not Discovery. Yeah, not Discovery. And then there's like a three-, four-, five-month processing waiting

Starting point is 03:14:43 where they build all the data they get the um all the subtitles done all the different languages all the you know that takes time it's a lot yeah it takes time so even if i finished the film within a year and got it in the queue that takes time once it's in the queue to actually officially release it you got to get all the press stuff written you got to get that takes time yeah you got a moment of contact done, like they did well, like that whole process. I did. And I'd like, if I can follow that parallel, look, I'm not going to compromise the integrity of the product. I'm not going to rush this thing to get out. If I've got opportunity to get some higher level interviews, guess what? I'm going to wait. I'm going to go

Starting point is 03:15:20 to DC for a month. I'm going to shoot all of the stuff that I need to get, me standing up, me walking through the halls of Congress, all the B-roll, all the time lapse, all that stuff. And then if I have to go back a few times for follow-up interviews for a sit-down, boom, just go in there and do it. I've already got all the other layouts. I'm good. Yeah. Well, there are a couple things from the first podcast that we did today. We've been going for hours and hours and hours. The longest podcast I've done in my life.

Starting point is 03:15:47 I'm going to leave them on the table and blue balls some people and not go there. I know I had said, like, there were two things I wanted to bring up to you. We addressed one. I never got to the second. If I go to the second, we're going to be here for another two hours. So I don't want to do that. What I want to close with is something I was getting at maybe 10, 15 minutes ago, but we didn't go all the way and that

Starting point is 03:16:07 is if we do find out let's even put it let's even put a time stamp on it if we do find out in the next decade that aliens exist i won't even say that they're here but that they've been here and we have that definitive proof we've talked about what how do you think that that'll affect humanity like will will there be more peace because of that will that bring people together or do you think that this could be an existential crisis moment and it could go the way of i don't know how but it could go the way of for example what some of those people warned some of the witnesses like oh the population would collapse or something like that like how would you it's an impossible question but i'm still going to ask it

Starting point is 03:16:52 like how would you see it going i've thought about this a long time and uh you know ronald reagan had made a couple of statements regarding the effect that he felt if there was an extraterrestrial presence or threat from the outside, that it would have a very unifying effect. And I tend to agree with him on that. I think that we would stop looking at ourselves as pink, white, green, and yellow, and start looking at ourselves for who we really are, and that's one race, one species, one planet. And I believed it then, and I still believe it now. So I personally think, once we got over the fear of the unknown and the shock of it all,

Starting point is 03:17:33 I think there's been a, you know, priming the public for some time now, I feel that, you know, once we get over the fear of that, that people would accept it. We still got to take out the garbage and do the dishes and go to job and make money. But that we would just, it would give us a bigger perspective on a bigger, as part of this, just a bigger universe

Starting point is 03:17:54 with so many different possibilities. So if it was here to do us harm, we would have known that a long time ago. I tend to agree with that. I wouldn't worry about that. Unless they're among us. Unless they're completely among us. But I mean, you know,

Starting point is 03:18:06 is it all benign and happy? I don't know. Maybe it isn't. But for the most part, all the military and the civilian encounters that I have spoken to and I've spoken to a lot

Starting point is 03:18:20 all around the world, China and Africa and South America, Australia, Canada, all over, all across the world china and africa and south america australia canada all over all across the united states mexico um they the encounters have been benign in fact we are the ones that have taken a hostile posture against unknowns we've tried to shoot at them. We, uh, so, um... Maybe it doesn't affect them. Yeah, so, you know, that's...

Starting point is 03:18:50 Uh, we're the ones. I don't think we're no longer taking that hostile posture. We're not shooting at them anymore. It's never ended well for us to try to do that. So, um, yeah, again, if they were here to do us harm, we would've known a long time ago. I'm not really worried about that. I mean, look, I'm sure there are people listening to this podcast that are going to just beg to differ and that's fine yeah i'm just giving you my perspective from my based

Starting point is 03:19:11 on my research yeah we could go on for hours we could go on for hours that's a great answer though and i hope you're right i hope it would be something that unifies and and like everything would be cool like you know we don't know what we're dealing with but people can get the phenomenon moment of contact i was calling it a moment of contact or i don't know why i put the a in there but phenomenon and the phenomenon and moment of contact on apple amazon and i will put the link to these in the description as well if you want to rent it rent it from amazon both of them it's the cheapest if you want to buy it do do it from iTunes or Vimeo because you get, for the same price, you get like an hour or two of bonus material. Excellent. Okay, so I'll have those links in there, and we're going to look for another documentary you're working on either in 2023 or 2024.

Starting point is 03:19:58 If people haven't liked, commented, and subscribed to the show, please do that now, and I'm really glad we did this. Thank you so much for coming down here. This was fucking awesome. It was really great. It was worth the drive. We're going to make a waste of time. Don't worry. We got it. Awesome. I appreciate you, sir. Your work's amazing and I can't wait for the next one. We will support on here. It's pretty fucking cool.

Starting point is 03:20:19 Thank you. Thank you. I got a few good more years left in me. I think you're just getting started. We're going to talk to my security guy too. Anyway, everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to me. Peace.

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