Julian Dorey Podcast - [VIDEO] - Paul Rosolie: Amazon's Uncontacted Tribes, El Dorado, Pyramids & Man-Eating Anacondas | 193

Episode Date: March 20, 2024

WATCH MY PREVIOUS EPISODES w/ PAUL: Episode 124: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7qQS9zoeh0hbAr25azZOVa?si=1da307b83c2048b3  Episode 192: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4w4Qqar6UVv8qnguGB9t3s?si=Yqu4dazMTYyJNYVFpXZ4lw  (***TIMESTAMPS in Description Below) ~ Paul Rosolie is an explorer, author, award-winning wildlife filmmaker, and “real-life Tarzan.” For much of the past 19 years, Paul has lived deep in the Amazon rainforest protecting endangered species and trees from poachers, loggers, and the foreign nations funding them. His 2014 book, “Mother of God” is revered by many among the int’l conservation community (including Jane Goodall) –– and his wildlife work has stretched across 4 continents. EPISODE LINKS: - BUY Guest’s Books & Films IN MY AMAZON STORE: https://amzn.to/3RPu952  - Julian Dorey PODCAST MERCH: https://juliandorey.myshopify.com/  - Support our Show on PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey  - Join our DISCORD: https://discord.gg/Uh5aUPg7  JULIAN YT CHANNELS: - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Clips YT: https://www.youtube.com/@juliandoreyclips  - SUBSCRIBE to Julian Dorey Daily YT: https://www.youtube.com/@JulianDoreyDaily  - SUBSCRIBE to Best of JDP: https://www.youtube.com/@bestofJDP  PAUL ROSOLIE LINKS: - INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/paulrosolie/  - DONATE (JUNGLEKEEPERS): https://www.junglekeepers.com/  ***TIMESTAMPS*** 0:00 - Paul’s earliest animal memories; How peacocks mate 11:53 - How dogs domesticated; Elephant behavior; Indian Elephant tricks 20:31 - Elephant tusk power; Baby Asian Elephant 24:51 - How Paul met JJ; First time in Amazon Jungle; Snakes, Sloth Drinking 33:05 - Why people hate snakes; Anacondas are dangerous 42:06 - Paul Rosolie appearance on Lex Fridman podcast & Joe Rogan Experience 53:23 - Human Nature; Return of tiger population; India’s Tigers 1:04:22 - Inside a leatherback Sea Turtle’s Mouth; P-eating fish; Paul captures Anaconda 1:11:18 - How to capture an anaconda 1:22:12 - Legend of the 35 foot Anaconda 1:27:14 - Dark Web 1:36:46 - JJ tracking animals with sounds; another Jaguar scare; Big cats and curiosity 1:45:14 - Trying to save Deer; History of Amazon Rainforest 1:56:21 - Early Ancient Civilization Indications; Uncontacted Tribes 2:03:57 - Recreating Wooley Mammoth 2:10:51 - Percy Fawcett & the hunt for El Dorado (Lost City of Z); Pyramids protected by Uncontacted Tribes 2:22:22 - Ranger killed by Uncontacted Tribe story 2:29:34 - Indigenous knowledge fading away 2:34:35 - JungleKeepers CREDITS: - Hosted & Produced by Julian D. Dorey - Intro & Episode Edited by Alessi Allaman - Episode Live-switched by Chris Antich ~ Get $150 Off The Eight Sleep Pod Pro Mattress / Mattress Cover (USING CODE: “JULIANDOREY”): https://eight-sleep.ioym.net/trendifier Julian's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey ~ Music via Artlist.io ~ Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 193 - Paul Rosolie Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up guys, if you're on Spotify right now, please follow the show so that you don't miss any future episodes and leave a 5 star review. Thank you. The only measurements that I know from this snake is that I jumped on this snake, tried to wrap my arms around it, and I couldn't touch my fingers. And I know this because on the grass, as I was being propelled forward, I was basically riding a snake. And as I'm being dragged across the grass, the mats are porous. They're floating in the water. So I shoved my hands under to try and like, couldn't do it. That's how thick the snake was.

And so... couldn't do it that's how thick the snake was and so when i don't know if i ever told you this but when i was growing up i had a jungle room it was like my obsession animals were my seriously it was yeah it was all like everything in the room was themed that way from the time I was three years old on because I loved animals so much. And then when I got older, you know, I'm from New Jersey. You live in the cities. You go about your life. You get the job that's not in the middle of the fucking Amazon, right? how you always had this bug and were so obsessed with animals as a young kid and always knew that was your calling to see how you treated animals growing up is so cool because you i would read

things like you would you would go rescue eels from the local bait store and put them out in the wild just to like say you did it you'd you'd praying mantises, you'd take in loose animals you found and raise them as your own. It's such an amazing thing. And, you know, does it ever hit you that your whole life is pretty much full circle from where you were with the wonderment of a child? Yeah. I mean, I, my earliest memories are animal related. I remember, you know, I grew up, my parents had golden retrievers. I remember rescuing the eels.

I remember, you know, I guess parents show their kids, you know, you have like your Tonka truck and you got your Legos and you got your animal books, you know, it's like, what do you give kids? And I just gravitated towards the animal books. And I remember my mother reading to me explaining the difference how do you tell the difference between an asian elephant and an african elephant and like i just i remember i was like talking like two years old and uh and then loving snakes and loving steve irwin and loving jane goodall and and then you know it's it's interesting always to go from something you love that you want to do.

You know, as a kid, it was go out into the woods, survive in the wild, in, you know, the upstate forests, upstate New York forests. And then getting to the point where it was like, okay, I want to go see the Amazon. I want to go see nature turned up to the max level and of course the amazon as soon as i read that in the entire fossil record there's never been anywhere that has more species terrestrially in the in the entire forest record it's not just on earth today this is the most life there's ever been and that that to me that sold me i was just like okay i'm going to the amazon that's what I'm doing. And so, yeah, I was always a terrible student.

We talked about dyslexia. Always terrible in school. Bad at math. Couldn't get in assignments. Dropped out of high school after sophomore year. Just never went back. You almost beat the shit out of a teacher, too. Yeah, he started it, though.

That wasn't my fault. he put hands on me first um but no but you know then your parents start to have these conversations with you where they're like look you're not doing good like you're gonna end up in real trouble um you're not just gonna get suspended you're gonna go to jail and so it became this thing where you know i had i had parents that understood they had a kid with outside the box interests with outside the box talents that loved nature that loved animals that loved art that loved literature um i mean my mom my mom was so outside the box she she had me as a little kid i remember we had various trees in our backyard and she would blindfold me and like spin me around and walk me to a tree and I'd have to touch the bark of the tree. And she'd be like, now, which tree do you think you're touching right now? And it was like a quiz, but it was like, those are really cool ways to engage a kid. And so those are, you know, my earliest memories was collecting acorns and, you know, maple leaves and all these things and dealing with salamanders and frogs and snakes and everything, everything.

Everything has always been animals for me. And so a few weeks ago, walking through the Amazon, and now we have jungle keepers. We'll backtrack, but now we have jungle keepers. We have 50,000 acres. Truck month is on at Chevrolet. Get 0% financing for up to 72 months on a 2025 silverado 1500 custom blackout or custom trail boss with custom trail bosses available class exclusive

duramax three liter diesel engine and z71 off-road package with a two-inch factory suspension lift you get both on-road confidence and off-road capability. Dirt road ahead? Let's go! Truck month is awesome! Ask your Chevrolet dealer for details. In the jungle, we don't shower. We go to the river. So we went to the river, swam in the river. Me and my girlfriend, we were walking back and she goes, what's that? And we look on the ground and there's this little toucan, this little toucan. And it looks like a like a vulture because this little toucan had you know it's got the beautiful toucan beak but then it had like a naked pink head and it had all these huge holes in it had bot flies oh yeah so we pick up this toucan we catch it i like took off my shirt and threw it over this thing caught it first of all thank god birds are small because they're savage the thing was biting the hell out

of my hands it was like just freaking out they're like little dinosaurs they're like it's like a little tiny tyrannosaurus rex thank god it's not big um but we took we took this bird up to the station put on some gloves and sat there and pulled all these dried bot flies out of it we cleaned it up we gave it a bath gave it some food we feeding it papaya, started mashing up some pineapple. Then we started figuring out that it loved, it needed protein. Toucans need protein. So we started mashing up like these giant crickets, like this big, mash them up in a cup with some banana and then put that on a spoon and then give it to the toucan. It was popping them back. And then we figured out that it loves butterflies. And so that was like maybe a month and a half ago and now this little toucan went from literally death's door like almost dead and then we let

it sleep at the station we put a branch for it like right in the main thing and now she's got all these beautiful she's got white feathers on the neck and everything's healing and it's getting better did flying lessons i had this toucan on my on my finger you did flying lessons well it wasn't flying so i was like this toucan needs to learn how to fly. So I would get him on him or her, I don't know. I'd get him on my finger and then start running. And as I started running, the toucan started flapping its wings. And so I have somewhere on my phone, I have these videos where I'd be like, all right, we're doing flying lessons today. And I'd just be running around in circles in the jungle with this toucan and she'd start flapping her wings like this.

And eventually, and then I did the other thing where i took her and i went okay well it's like three two one throw them in the air and then flat flat flat down like glide to the ground and every day we do that now literally teaching a bird how to use its own literally ecological wow um obviously i'm here doing this now but i talked to my team on the ground yesterday and they said that right now the bird is up out in the jungle wild and comes back when it just wants a snack. Oh, so it comes back around, though. That's so cool. It's pretty cool.

And you didn't know if it was a he or she? How do you not know that? Okay, so some birds have sexual dimorphism where you can tell there's either a physical or an ornamental difference in the structure of the bird. So you might have like- They got a dick or a vagina, right? Yeah, but it's inside. Just like a snake, you have to like probe them to know, or a crocodile.

So if you take like a, I think like a cardinal or something, you have like, you know, like a red male cardinal, and then the females are a different color. If you take a bird, I believe that white-throated toucans are just white-throated toucans. I don't think there's any noticeable external, or macaws.

Macaws don't have any like external signs. If you have a red and green macaw or a scarlet macaw, male and female are indistinguishable from each other. So we don't know. How do they know? Oh, they know. Obviously they do, but how do they... I don't know whether it's smell or maybe they have a keener eye for like structural differences in the beak or something like that um or perhaps perhaps it's behavioral but then you have species like peacocks where you have peacocks that have this massive tail with all the colors

and you have peahens that are like drab colored gray and they look nothing like if you look up a female peacock can we look up peahen they look nothing like a peacock you wouldn't even guess it was the same bird i've definitely never done that before female peacock that's it uh yep there it is male and female right next to each other that that white one yep there it is see totally different so you have the male with like the royal blue and the giant tail they really got chipped over by nature yeah and the males i've watched a male peacock present for a female and so he's got his tail up and he's shaking it and everything else and females like walking around

pretending not to be interested and then like two more males come and she's like i'll check these guys out too and she's like everybody gets to try and then she makes a decision but they're they're oh they let her make a decision that with the birds yeah the the males have to put on a whole display and if you see like the birds of paradise the reason that they have that incredible plumage is because everything is if it's not perfect if their dance isn't on point the females will not select them and so there's so what happens is the species selects for a certain trait a perfect set of plumage a perfect dance i think there's one bird i think it might be the bower bird i don't want to get it wrong there's one species of bird that collects blue items like bright blue items and then it makes like a nest for the female only out of blue things so

it'll steal like blue forks and pieces of foil and whatever it can get but they love blue and so it has to get her blue stuff so it goes and robs everybody's blue shit i was wondering about that with animals with with we were talking on the last podcast about some of the intellectual capabilities of animals and stuff but when it comes to feeling and emotion related to imagery like colors obviously some of them clearly have that um i mean i i have no you'll never hear me say anything about lessening the amount of emotions that animals have i think the humans have struggle with recognizing the the amount of emotions that other humans have so i think when you have a bird i think it's so outside of our like i constantly

have people telling me where they're like wow did you know that animals feel and it's like well anybody that owns a dog knows that animals feel emotion you ever like you know if it has something and you got to put that collar on and like you see them looking embarrassed and looking sad and looking you know or if or if they do something wrong oh yeah oh they know oh then they know you know that look where they're just like oh i shouldn't i shouldn't i shouldn't have taken your sandwich off the counter i watch all those videos on instagram oh yeah when they're like showing the dog right after and they're like you ever see the one where the dog's just taking a piss on the floor no he's just like straight up spread and he just starts like just pissing in a puddle and she's like rocky and she's just golden retriever he's like every time i see that um i i do think though that dogs dogs don't i don't think i know that dogs have more um of a connection to human

facial expressions than any other animal like is that just because they're domesticated yeah yeah it's because we've bred for that they've they've they or we have figured that out like the fact that you can like look at your dog and just cock an eyebrow and they're like we're going outside and it's like yeah you know but is that that's where i always get confused because i don't know shit about fuck with this but that's evolutionary because i would assume because we've bred them for whatever it is, thousands of years now. And so at some point, that changes the DNA so that they're able to recognize human expression literally in their DNA simply because earlier in the tree, in the family tree, a know, their forefathers lived with dogs and learned how to do this stuff. So now it's automatic.

You see what I'm saying? It's weird. The question with dogs is did we domesticate them or did they domesticate themselves? human villages were here and the wolves would come and the wolves that were friendlier didn't get killed? Or was it that humans took them in and bred for a trait and bred them down? Like we took the grass that was the ancestor of corn that had like two kernels on it and we bred it into corn that has lots of kernels on it. So we engineered that. Did we take wolves and turn them into dogs? And what was the motivation for doing that? It's like, well, you see it again, back to the Amazon. It's like living a thousand years ago. The people aren't treating their dogs the way we treat our dogs. It's not way but if somebody else comes to that camp the dogs start barking it's a really good alarm system so nobody goes anywhere without dogs not in the wild not in the Amazon you bring your dogs all the gold miners have dogs and you get anywhere near them and the dogs go off and so it's like right there they're providing

us a service which is the same reason that cap capuchin monkeys and squirrel monkeys will like share territory. They'll even like hold each other's babies because they hold them up. Capuchin more. What's the other one? Capuchins and squirrel monkeys. They'll actually like share. They'll like make mixed groups and they'll share responsibilities. And there's just more eyes in the sky.

They'll they'll they'll all be looking out for harpy eagles they'll all be looking out for food now can they commute there are different breeds of monkey can they communicate like verbally do they understand each other i think they understand each other just fine because they they indicate which directions they want to go they they share the same food sources so it's like an irishman with an american gotta think about that and i yeah yeah right like maybe we can't speak the exact same language or we have a different dialect but yeah got it okay wow wait this is all them together yeah so see and see that too he's using tools whoa how high up are they right now i don't think they're very high that looks like they're at some sort of

rehabilitation center yeah they have somebody's hung that that thing and they're just they're just having fun but you know in the wild you see them sharing habitat they'll be in the same tree they'll be all hanging out together i just i was just hanging out with squirrel monkeys and the oh they really do look like squirrels wow yeah you were hanging out with squirrel monkeys yeah sitting in the forest with squirrel monkeys do they just like come up on your shoulder no no no no not like that wild animals i don't i can't think of a wild animal that'll like come on to you like that um no they're comfortable being near us but if i ever like um a lot of it has to do with posture you have to know how to approach a wild animal so like if you

if you look directly at them they're gone if you if i'm writing in my notebook and i'm not moving my head my my my the intention of pose is this direction. The monkey's over here. I can, I can look at them and observe them peripherally, but I can't turn my head towards them. And the same thing goes for, if you're tracking a coyote or something, yeah. The hands, you know, the, where your shoulders are and you can't, you can't, you can't wave at these things. Then they think you're attacking them. And the elephants, uh, elephants are very similar, very, very big on pose. If an elephant has ears out and is looking at you, posted up, ears out, that elephant is investigating you. That elephant is like, wait, what that the people are close, but they want to keep watching us, but they don't want us to know that they're watching us. So they'll start fake eating. So they'll start breaking stuff off and just throwing it to the side and they're like side eye me.

And it's like, I can see what you're doing. It's really funny. Oh, man. can see what you're doing it's really funny oh man now my other favorite one is that um baby elephants a lot of times if they they're like i'm kind of scared of these people i'm gonna go hide and they'll stick their head in a bush and their entire ass and bodies it's like a baby putting a putting a blanket over its head and thinking it's invisible it's just like it's like i can i can see what's the what's the meme of like the person standing behind the tree but the tree's like this thin and you can see him exactly you can't see exactly that that's funny for such a smart animal you would think better

for that but it's usually the babies yeah maybe they're also like especially at that age they're not aware of their size no they're not they're not aware of their size they're still using to they're still learning to use their trunk baby elephants don't know how to use their trunk you see them like flipping it around trying like knocking shit over like they have to take time they how long does that take to learn how to use that from birth a few months it's a few months that's kind of fast i thought you were gonna say a couple years yeah i mean they're with their mother for years but right but you would you know a deer gets born and stands up a giraffe gets born and stands up an elephant gets born stands up but then when they're when they're still drinking milk from their mothers, they're just using their mouth.

When they get to the point that they're actually dexterous with their trunk and can pick a berry off of a tree and give it to themselves. Or I've seen in India people that have elephants on the roadside where you – it's India. So you go up and you put your hands in prayer hands and you bow your head and the elephant touches you on the back of the head. You've been blessed. And then you take a coin and present it to the elephant. And the elephant has fingers on its trunk. And it grabs the coin, takes the coin like this, opens its trunk, and the coin falls into the base of the trunk here. And then as it moves to the next person you hear you hear this

jingling like pirate treasure the fuck is it gonna do it's got 700 coins in his trunk because it's got a it's got an owner he's taught the elephant to do this so the next person comes the next person comes that you bend down prayer hands elephant touches you blesses you oh wait do the kid too you hold the kid the elephant blesses the kid lord ganesha thank you and then you give it a coin it plucks the coin drops it into the trunk and then in the in the in the curve of the trunk are all these coins and then you just watch and sooner or later that trunk goes back and the guy opens his hat and just a river of coins comes out the elephant just took like 400 rupees from people you imagine if like italians in new had access to elephants? Hey, Vinny, go get the fucking coins. It's like a fucking vending machine, all right?

That's amazing, man. Hey, guys, if you have a second, please be sure to share around this episode on social media and with your friends, whether it's Instagram, Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, doesn't matter. It is all a huge, huge help. It allows us to get new eyeballs on this show spread it around the internet and it helps us survive so to all of you who have already been doing that thank you to all of you who are going to do so now thank you I don't care if it's a clip I don't care if it's an episode I don't care what it is if you're sharing content from the show you are the real MVP out there and I appreciate all of you. But they also – the strength that they have in that – what can they – because we were watching the video earlier of an elephant flipping over the cars with his ivory.

But what's the strength of the tusk? It's incredible. I can tell you that I've seen an elephant grab, you know, a tree and just uproot it. I've seen an elephant break branches, which, you know, they just grab it and they just rip it off and their trunk, you know, an elephant's trunk is actually, you know, bigger than me or you. It's huge. The one time I got a sense of it though, is this elephant was reaching up for something and I was a, you know, semi wildild elephant so i was able to get close to it you cannot get close to a wild elephant um it was a semi-wild elephant that had a handler but we were out in the forest and this elephant

reached up to grab something on a tree and i was i was like wow these are really big tusks and i felt the tusk and then the underside of the trunk is just like it looks like an octopus's arm like it's just it the way it folds up and there's all that muscle. And so I put my hand over the tusk to touch the trunk. But when that trunk came down, it like levered my arm. And I had to jump off the ground so that my arm didn't snap. Because yeah, it would have just like armbarred my arm. And the elephant had no idea.

The elephant would have broken my arm in half and just, it's like he was just doing this. He wasn't, he just was moving. And I just happened to be stupid. That strong. And I was just like, wow. And put up my hand and then whoosh. And the next thing I knew, I like flipped up over and then landed on the ground and couldn't use my elbow for like two weeks. Yeah.

It's really good though. Because if it did break, it would have broken the bad way. Reassuring. Yeah. And the elephant would have been like, whatever. What does an elephant's skin feel like? Elephant's skin on the Asian ones is a lot more hair than you'd

think. Yeah, I've seen that. It's the baby Asian elephants actually have like a head of hair. They look like a little woolly mammoth. They're adorable. They're small. Can're like, you know, they're small. They're small. Can we pull them up? Yeah.

Type in baby Asian elephant. They're, they're super cute. They're super cute. They have like, they have like, like hair. It's like,

it's like you see that they're actually genetically much closer to mammoths than. Oh shit. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Like he's actually got hair. That's like bristly.

See, even on the back, there's plenty of hair on there all over and they don't they really don't have it much of that at all in africa no not like nothing all right here we go here's a little video of baby asian elephant elephant bella they're also a different shape yeah they're very different they're very very different they're distinctly different but you know they're both elephants right away you know look at this oh look at that thing but see how big is that it's probably about you know this back is probably about where your table is they're small that's small yeah that looks real that's real small it's like having a fucking dalmatian already that weighs 700 pounds exactly they're dense man just their teeth i uh i found an elephant skull and they have like one to two

teeth on each part of their jaw and so like their tooth it's like it's like 35 pounds and it's got these giant uh roots coming off of it but it's this giant piece of of a ridged sculpture it's amazing an elephant tooth is a wild thing oh they're so cute yeah you when you were saying i can't remember if that was on camera off camera i think it was on camera you're talking about elephant's mouth or whatever that was something like when you said that i'm like i don't know that i've ever even really looked at that the inside of an elephant's mouth yeah i don't think like it's weird because it's blocked yeah it's blocked by the trunk a lot of elephants when you feed them they want you to put like i had a pineapple on this elephant wanted he just didn't want to take it with his trunk so he just kept ah i just kept

opening his mouth and i like you know you're like it's kind of scary you go to put it in his mouth and he like you know rushes you with this mouth that's you know it's giant mouth and you got to drop the pineapple and get your hand out of there quick you're like that's the end of it that's nuts man yeah but when we we wanted to talk about on the last episode but just never got to it about your how you developed your initial relationships with jj and emma coming into the jungle when you were 18 years old. How did you end up there in the first place with them? I wanted to find a way of going to the jungle that wasn't, you know, you can go on vacation. You can go to a lodge or something. And I just, my view of what I was doing, my personal mission was I wanted to go

to a part of the Amazon that was extremely wild. I wanted to go past where, you know, the tourist trail. And I wanted to go if I could, I mean, I was only barely 18 years old and I wanted to go if I could in some capacity that was serving a purpose. And so I went as a research volunteer studying macaws. And what it was, was JJ owned this piece of land and with his partner at the time, Emma, and they had started this little research station. And so I went down there and I did my- JJ is a native of Peru. So JJ Juan Julio Duran Torres, he grew up in the Madre de Dios of Peru. He's from the Ezeha tribe. And him and his brothers are this incredible family.

And he was like the first person I met in Peru. And when I went out there, I said, he goes, well, what do you want to see in the jungle? I think he was like 32 at the time. And I was just this teenager. And he was like, so what do you want to see when you go out in the jungle? And I was like, snakes. And he was like, snakes. He was like, we don't like snakes here. Fuck snakes fuck snakes oh so he's on the team love that no he's a convert uh so then so then we're going up river on like day one

and he like stops the boat driver and he's like look over there and there's like 12 foot black and green snake on the side of the river about to take a drink and he goes you like snakes i went yeah he goes let's go get it he goes come on snake boy and so he pops his shirt off and i pop my shirt off and he gets into the river and i'm i'm straight off i'm left from jfk and now i'm in the amazon and i'm going you you can get in that water like i thought piranhas are going to eat you he's like don't they have like penis eating fish in there he was he was like don't be a pussy he was like let's go he was like come on and so we got in the water and my feet i'll never forget it my feet touched the bottom of the river and i went whoa the river's not deep he goes no the rivers here aren't deep what does it feel like down there it's sand it's perfect

sand i thought it'd be seaweedy and rocky and nasty nope perfect sand muck guck all that no guck we got on the sand we started walking we went the snake they're fast they went straight into the jungle we didn't get to catch it but then over the next few weeks i would do research on macaws in the daytime which was just hours and hours of taking data on how cloudy it was how many macaws there were what they were doing what their activity was if they flushed um and then in the evenings, I would turn on my headlamp and I'd be like, all right, JJ, let's go find snakes. And he'd be like, cool, let's go do it. And he loved it because he had grown up in this indigenous community where he knew his father

and the guy Don Ignacio, who was the shaman. And so he literally had to walk to school that so many people's parents has become like a cliche. He had to walk for an hour through the jungle to get to school barefoot. And so there was a whole bunch of siblings. I think he has 17 brothers. That's nice. And so they would have to walk all at varying ages. And so they would have to walk through the jungle to get to the community. Because within the indigenous community, there was like a center where was you know the school but then their land was out here so they would have to walk to get to school go to

school and then come back and then but the things that they grew up doing was you know who in the uncle so-and-so is a logger uncle so-and-so is a you know a fisherman and so everybody had a different area of the jungle that was their specialty and so like whether it was hunting fishing logging they always were learning from the forest and so if you go out with jj in the in the jungle he knows the jungle in a way that like no matter what you or i do no matter how many years we spend studying he's known it since he was born breathing he breathes it yeah and so we'll walk past a tree and he'll be like stop cut the tree and be like you're like i don't walk past a tree and he'll be like, stop.

Cut the tree. He'll be like, I don't know what this tree is. And I'm like, do you know what that tree is? And he's like, yeah, Ramo Caspi, idiot. And I'm like, all right, do you know what that tree is? And he's like, yeah, cauba. And I'm like, do you know what that tree is? And he's like, yeah, palisanto. He's like, every single tree, he knows the tree.

So when he finds one that he doesn't know, whereas for us, there us there's 1500 species of hardwood trees in the amazon it's just green and there's just big trees small trees broken trees i see trees trees i see trees look birds um so he worked as a birding guide and as a scientist and he had the indigenous knowledge and as a scientist yeah i mean he's he's collaborated on so many scientific projects since before i was on the scene and after and so what you get is you get a scientist coming down and they go well i want to he had a filmmaker come down and they went i want to get a uh a video of a sloth drinking well sloths live in the trees so how do you get a video of a sloth he got the guy video of a sloth drinking where did it go down with everyone else right it got went down to

the river and it drank but how to find a sloth sloths look exactly like a termite nest sloths blend into the lichen of a tree to find a sloth is almost impossible he found a sloth and then somehow delivered on that sloth moving which again i've been standing right next to a sloth and can't tell if it's a sloth i've had to poke it and then it wakes up and it tries to kill you you know how like a blind person can have unbelievable other senses right they develop it especially if they went blind at a very very young age when we're born blind and so they can hear things and feel things and sense things with the other senses that we can't do you think it's a similar or maybe the same

like type of biological scientific effect growing up in that environment? Yeah, except I think it's multiplied by a thousand. Like I tell people like, you know, like, you know, like when you're like, you're driving on a highway and you just, you just get this sense, you go, that person's gonna come flying over for no reason. You just know this person's gonna fly into your lane with no signal. And and you just get this sense, you go, that person's going to come flying over. For no reason, you just know this person's going to fly into your lane with no signal. And if you drive... When does fast grocery delivery through Instacart matter most?

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really quickly it turns your hands red the reason it does that is it has and he'll go into this whole thing about you know this medicinal plant that the uncontacted people smear on their bodies to keep mosquitoes away but it can also be used to treat these number of illnesses and you're like holy and i'm like what plant does that go to and he goes oh it only grows on the top of the trees only only grows in the canopy it's very rare i'm like but you know it he's like oh yeah of course i do yeah how do you think i survived being four years old and it's like all right um so yeah he's he's just on another level and so so that has opened up the amazon to me i mean i wouldn't have been able to write mother of god if i didn't have that type you know if i had gone to some research station that was run by a phd from some european country and you know a bunch

of foreigners walking around with clipboards and stuff it's you know you you wear gum rubber gum boots and you you have rules and going into the amazon with jj was like he was like take your shoes off take your shirt off yeah like first rule fight club is shut the fuck up let's go it was just like he was just like teach me how to he was like i will teach you the jungle you teach me snakes so he didn't know a hell of a lot about snakes no because they all kill snakes they they say my kind of people when you come to the jungle i'm telling you there was there was a uh there was a snake at my parents house there was a snake outside the garage door one day laying there was like a six foot snake and i couldn't leave the house i was like taking pictures from above with paul i'm like

paul what do i do do i get the gun the driver he's like it's a garden snake it's friendly i'm like that's not friendly it was a beautiful black rat it was not sweet hearts they are fucking gross i was trying to get the dog to go eat it, but she wouldn't touch it. Your golden retriever. Yeah, she's kind of a pussy, but sweet dog. But he didn't fuck with snakes at all. Yeah. How old was he when you met him? 30? 32-ish, yeah.

So in his 32 years, he'd really been like, we only kill snakes. And now, how'd you convert him? Something happens, and I can't wait to gift your listeners with this amazing piece of content when you eventually come to the amazon something happens when people don't like snakes what what's happening is is that they don't understand snakes and so they've what i do is i ask the person to sit and i've done this with hundreds of people you know put your hands out and most of them i've had everything on the spectrum from people who if they they even see a snake, they will start crying. People that if I show them a picture of a snake on my phone, they're like, they physically react.

They hate them. Take that same person and you handle a snake in front of them. You let them see it. And you're like, oh, wow, look at that little tiny shoestring of an animal that can't defend itself against even a blue jay. And you're like, oh, he's jay and you're like oh he's harmless you're like yeah this is a little grass snake like it's okay you could kill it with your thumb and then i say well when you're ready sit down next to me very slow very slow and they see the snake and then i you know the snake will move quickly and i'll go see the snake got scared

because of you you're the big animal okay and i go put your hands out i'm just going to touch you with the snake just just a breath and they go oh shit it's not it's not slimy no it's not slimy it's like all marble scales so it's dry whoa and then they like finger on the tail and then pretty soon that same person is like holding a boa constrictor three days later and they're like i love snakes they it's literally because they've never met one and i've met a few doesn't end well for them but yeah sorry fuck this fuck this all right it's so you don't let the new york come out but it's the one kind of animal that i'm always like

you know someone marks a snake i'm like okay no okay. No, no, no, no, no, no. We're going to bring you around. And rats too. We're going to bring you around. This is going to be a beautiful story. I like that snakes eat rats. I do like that. They specialize in it.

That's a win. That's a win. We could use a few snakes down by the river right there. Yep. So no. So JJ knew it seemed like everything about the jungle. Medicinal plans, how to track animals where to find everything a whole lifetime of jungle knowledge and then you know if you're

out with loggers they see a snake they go kill it fucking guys you just you cut a little snail eating snake in half and they're like it was a venomous one i'm like no it's not and they're like yeah all the all the brown and red ones are venomous and i'm like you can't identify snakes like uh you could have a timber rattlesnake that's black or yellow you can't identify snakes based on color ever not really no how'd you identify mine then that could have been a poisonous man-eating fucking snake and you would have been like oh that was one of my childhood friends black black rat snakes are one of the coolest snakes we have he didn't look for him he's a sweetheart just trying to get a 10 and you're over here complaining about him it's gonna get heated it's gonna get fucking

keep going i'm i'm open i'm open to conversion but uh no so then yeah so i started catching tree boas and things and started showing him what the difference was with snakes like how do you tell the difference and until you have a snake in front of you until you start looking at the scales and the shape of the head and the the shape of the body it's very difficult to explain it it's it's it's it's very fun the only way i can give an analogy is like we know the difference with cars you know like a jeep a taxi a sedan a a truck yes yes pickup truck like a bus well like that's pretty easy but no matter what color it is we know the shape of those things and so for anyone that knows snakes it's pretty easy to spot an elapid which is like the coral snakes and the cobras or a constrictor like

an anaconda or a python it's like you start to be able to go okay i get it and then you know if i'm at 90 recently we were somewhere and somebody goes viper and i said where get this little thing by the tail super careful you know i'm like let me see the head no that's not a viper it's some sort of cat-eyed snake and then i'm like okay this snake is a cat-eyed snake cat-eyed snake it's just a just a small species of non-venomous nocturnal snake that eats like frogs and lizards completely harmless to us but most people in the field i do this all the time i go is this snake venomous and people are like yep no and then a lot of times what happens is people see me handling snakes and they go

i just had this happen um where people see me handling snakes and then they go, oh, so you can just handle snakes. You pick up the wrong snake and you die. Right. I'm shocked that hasn't happened to you. No, I'm actually very, very careful with venomous snakes. Venomous snakes, very careful. I mean, in the Amazon, we have Bushmasters, which is – Can we pull that up? Bushmasters in the Amazon?

Pull up a video of them? If you don't mind, put my name after that see if it like put like bushmaster paul rose it might might actually just show a picture of me go to images there might just be a picture of me holding a bushmaster is that it uh second from the right top right there that's a bushmaster that's a fucking bush is that like a full-sized one that is a full-sized 11 foot long Bushmaster. Oh, that's nice. That's the scientific name of that snake.

What are you holding it with? I actually have a snake hook, but you see it bending? Come on. I'd be shitting myself. Do you see how much I'm sweating? You see that sweat? I didn't jump in a river. That's sweat.

You've already made the mistake of being here. That's the problem. So it's bending around. How fast does this thing like how does it attack a bite yeah i mean that that snake in the daytime bushmasters are incredibly lethargic they're mostly nocturnal so as i'm handling that in the daytime um i was actually relocating that snake and just trying to put it down now in this moment what i did not know about bushmasters is that they actually have a barb on their tail like a nail no snake that i know about has this so as i'm holding the snake i have the tail right hand is safe left hand has the snake hook and i'm

like okay the head is over there and i'm like i'm safe you know what i mean you're constantly watching this thing's head because you're like, if this turns around, I die. And all of a sudden, I feel something stab into me and break the skin. And it's using that barb on its tail. And of course, all you're thinking is, don't get pinched. Don't get envenomated. Don't get bitten up. Immediately, that's where all that sweat came from because i had this full-scale systemic

panic attack because i thought somehow my body thought envenomated we've been envenomated and it's just what envenomated like they they got you like when they bite you there there's two syringe and the act of becoming a venom entering use that word i like that envenomated yes that's a good one um luckily i was not Invenomated. Yes. That's a good one. Luckily, I was not envenomated because that snake, the Latin name is literally death, death. Laquicis muta, muta.

How many of them are in the Amazon? Everywhere. And they have, they have cried. It's lousy with them. I can hear Jim DeOrio right now like, I'm out.

This is not happening. And you can't really tell in this picture but they have like most snakes are smooth these guys have keeled scales on the back like a dragon or a crocodile what do you mean killed their back scales on the back they're like popped off the like there's as in like you're running against it like the grain or it's popped off like a like a half circle think of the scoots on a crocodile's back you know they're like you're running against it like the grain or it's popped off like a like a half circle think of the scoots on a crocodile's back you know they're like they're not yeah they're not spikes but they're just little bumps yeah but so yeah so if you if you run your fingers over that it's it's a very interesting texture it's not like a normal it's like a king of snakes it really is

like king cobra is the largest venomous snake on earth this is the neotropical version of that oh that's so cute look at that that's when early in my days when I would like watermark photos. Oh, with your name on it. Yeah. This is my photo, guys. Please, all rights and company rights to me. All rights reserved for Paul Rosalie. That's hilarious.

To Mandua. How old are you in there? 22, 23? Let's see. That's 2011. That's 2011 it's 2011 22 yeah right yeah sure wow so that one's that one's one of the most dangerous ones that's one but like isn't isn't an anaconda the most dangerous one no anaconda i mean if they're if they're really that big to the point

that the head is this big you know when the head is is bigger than a rottweiler and you have 200 teeth and six rows then yes that's very dangerous but and how again how wide open can they open that no 180 but again what kind of asshole sees an anaconda in a swamp and goes anywhere near it there's no situation where yeah you there's no situation if you let's just say there was a if there was a king cobra in this room right now right over there by that globe i would i my my blood pressure wouldn't change with a king cobra no no i wouldn't be doing that a king cobra right now would probably flare its hood up and then go right behind that curtain and chill out and go to sleep. They just want to find a dark spot and go to sleep.

Now, if I opened that curtain and started poking it with a broomstick, then the fucker would stand up and be like, look, if you want me to arrange a meeting with God, oblige him. Oblige him. That was so upsetting when Lex didn't get that reference. That was so good. He's got his feelers in so many directions but what are you doing man no he's such a great movie he's uh you can tell when you're talking to him he's he's he's on he's on the next 40 moves of the conversation hey donnie got another sauerkraut sandwich wants to die for country oblige him god damn that was good that was a really good podcast you guys did together. By the way, I was very impressed with that.

It was – well, again, you guys are the captains when we do these things. I just – I feel like you guys – you're just like, what about this? And then I just go. And he did a very good job, I thought, of – we sat down and he went, here's where we're going to start. And however he started it, however it progressed, it was structured in such a way that I didn't do any thinking that entire time. That's great. He was just like, look, you wrote this. What? You said this. What? And it just went. And somehow we kind of started from the beginning, kind of like we did today. And it was it was a very calm conversation it was it was a good one it was very enjoyable it's pretty cool that you because you had told me this long before you ever got invited on there that on the amazon like sometimes when you listen to a podcast oh yeah like he's a guy you listen to a lot and

then you get to be in a studio that's pretty cool yeah no it's funny because the way he messaged me when he when he said he goes do you want to come on this podcast i do and i was like yes the lex freedom podcast that i'm a huge fan of yes i would love that um yeah no that was that was awesome that was super fun yeah good for exposure too obviously i mean he's huge now yeah and then that gets you after that you get on joe and do that whole thing that was really really cool um yes i was very surprised going on joe that um now i wouldn't use the word like intimidated but i was just like as i was going in there i was just like holy fuck you know this is not a joke i was you know i'm thinking about you know don't get don't fuck up how many acres are in the amazon and trying

to remember everything and my takeaway from that was that he's he he was such a nice person to me that i was nicer to people after i met him because i was like if joe rogan has the time to be that nice to me because he could have just been like you know do the podcast and i'm like all right fuck off kid right the dude was so nice he was like oh you got dogs you got golden retrievers like i'll bring my dog to the studio he's just such a dude that literally i found myself um at times where i would just you know be like a little bit you know angry or gruff with someone and just be like dude what the fuck what the fuck you doing who that's a great example he's the biggest guy out there too like in media period you would just think that the the ego would go go hand in hand with that

and then you know it's just like if he was sitting here we'd just be like you know i don't know him but every person i know who has dealt with him has said the same thing which is really cool because he's such a he's such an amazing example to all of us who do this do anything and this business doesn't happen without him starting it and to see him at the top of his game but still being that same guy that's really really cool i think anybody that is at that level where you're you know a household name can't you know receive receiving that amount of attention to still be gracious and patient and respectful of people at that level i mean it's got to be it's got to be tough not just for him for anybody you know if you're if you're if you're a famous author or a sports player and you're out and you're having a milkshake

with your kids and someone, yo, man, I'm a big fan. Can I get a picture? It's like, that's cool when it first starts happening. I don't think so. The 10,000... No. I mean, look, I went to... I was at Dunkin' Donuts the other day and I was picking up an order and I went to the window and I paid. Just as i'm pulling away this kid sticks his head out and he goes are you paul rosalie and i and that doesn't happen to me a lot i went holy shit and like it felt you know it was like oh shit it was like cool but i can i could picture how this extrapolated times times 10 times 10 000 when you're like dude i'm just trying to i'm just like in my pajamas and it's 2 a.m and you know i'm just trying to – I'm just like in my pajamas and it's 2 a.m. and I'm just trying to get a pizza.

Like that's probably not the best thing. And for guys at that level where anytime you go anywhere, you're identified instantly. It's got to be rough. And so to maintain still being a nice person at that level to me is actually a huge feat. That's pretty impressive. He also gets attacked for bullshit all the time all the guy does is talk with people right that's why he's so likable because he sits down with people he's interested in and has a conversation with them and they do it on camera which is the basis of

what a podcast should be and yet you know it's almost like he got so big that all the people from i don't know the mainstream or whatever you want to say it's like they're jealous of it and they just attack them on every little thing and i can't imagine how fucking exhausting that must be it's got to be exhausting and i think uh you know what the fuck is getting their news from i mean like who told you you know what i mean like there's there's there are sources to go to if you want to learn about covet 19 or something like that like why are people he's literally and i think what he does is he's very good at having everybody on you know yeah you want to have you want to tell me the earth is flat come on tell me the earth is flat i'm gonna laugh at you like you know it's like come come come embarrass yourself on my show and like i

think that's the problem that people have is like it's like let's let's fucking let's talk about it it's okay yeah and and and if you're an evil psychopath let's talk about it it's gonna come out let us know yes let us know and that's that's i think that's a strategy that people forget now is like i want to know what they're thinking i want i want to know what the people are thinking i don't want them silenced i want to hear if someone's a crazy racist it's like well I want to know about it I don't want to risk being around them yeah and so I feel like yeah I mean in general it's just I was recently reading about how uh that story and I forget where he was when this happened but Teddy Roosevelt was supposed to give a speech and someone pops out of the crowd shoots him in the chest now he's got a few hundred people around just gets shot in the chest

he makes sure he's okay the crowd jumps the crowd jumps on the guy and they start trying to murder this dude teddy roosevelt is the only calm one he steps in and he goes stop he had a 50 page speech in his yeah coat so the bullet went in and stayed in him the rest of his life, but he's actually the one. He looked at the guy and he goes, why'd you do it? The guy didn't answer him, so he said, give him to the cops. Then he took the speech with the hole in it, held it up to the crowd and went, now I might not be able to talk as long as I wanted to, but I'm going to give this speech. I just got shot. And he kept going. And it's like there's a – That's why they call him the man in the arena.

Yeah. Yeah. And so from that to shield my ears, I can't listen. Right. On that spectrum, it's just – yeah, if someone's crazy, I want to know about it. Let them talk. But think about that. Think back in the real world here where we're going about our lives under our hydraulic lights or whatever the fuck

they're called holding our asshole up to the sun doing all the andrew heberman protocols just to stay healthy you're out in the environment you're out in the shit you're in the middle of stuff you see what real problems are you see what real problems are with people trying to attack it and take it away from the earth what that could do to our ecosystem you see it from people who have to be out there and this is where they're born and they have to find a way to survive every day you see your days where you wake up you're in the middle of the brush and maybe you run into a fucking jaguar and it's fight or flight and then you come back here and you see that we can't even handle hearing someone talk that we don't like their opinions and we all got a bitch about it on the internet that's gotta be fucking annoying

uh yeah i mean i i miss a lot thankfully because i'm in the jungle off the grid most of the time but um it's yes that can be annoying and the chatter is annoying but it's also you know at some point it's it almost feels offensive to i don't use the word offensive because everybody's offended but everybody's offended but um well me too um damn it no but at some point it's like you know i watch my friends in the amazon living these hard lives and a lot of the local guys who i'm friends with you know they they carry the motor up the hill to put the hose in the stream to get water so that they can have their kids have water or they're drinking out of the stream. There's these unnegotiable truths of nature that when it rains, the stream floods, you have to move camp.

And it's like life is so simple and everyone agrees on the same truths because it's nature. You can't negotiate with the rocks. You can't negotiate with the rain. We're all living in one reality because it's the river. and that's what the mountains do the same thing for you if you're hiking and you're up in the mountains you notice people help each other people are when you encounter another hiker most of the time they wave they check in to see if you need anything it's like there's this culture of like hey we're all here you know a thunderstorm could come in right now and zap you off this mountain so we better be good to each other and if you need

anything let me know i'll just be like down on the next thing it's like when you're out in the wild it creates this it centers you it regrounds you to the unnegotiable truths of the universe the chemical physical truths of reality um and so yes coming back but the the cities have always been cities have always been a place of chatter. That's where you have to lose the madness over the mountains. Yes. That's always been a dynamic. It's just worse now because the rate of chatter is faster.

But again, I think that we're going through a rough patch. I think that more and more people are calming down, remembering that where things lie, there's serious things happening out in the earth and in the world. People right here at home are dealing with serious things. People are trying to survive. Who gives a fuck? Like we need – you can't chop things up to that level. It just needs to be do good, help people, and shut the fuck up. I think there are a lot more normal thinking people out there than we realize.

I do think, especially with the internet, it rewards the loudest voices for the most attention because it draws the most opinion i always have to remind myself that because i forget it even even when i know this like i i still forget that because it's like damn everyone must be thinking this and we must be a disaster here or there and it's not i i think i think we're going to be all right and i think we need things that we can all rally behind right that's why i like causes like this because they're the types of things that if if people are even just somewhat educated on it and you know everyone likes a good animal right you know at some point or another that's a cute baby elephant right exactly like there's little things even if it's just something small that can get people on the same page then i think that's that's a w for society but you know we're gonna go get dinner

in a couple hours with andy bustamante and jim d oreo and these guys who come at it from you know the national security side of things or whatever and one of the things that andy says very openly and not like callously but just like as like a matter of fact that blows my mind but it's obvious when you look at history is he's constantly talking about like we need an enemy we need an enemy to unite to unite against or something like that which is a horrible thing to have to think but unfortunately and i i think about this all the time remember when he said it in episode 107 when he and i were going at it and like an hour 40 minutes in he was like we need an enemy and i was like what did you just

say and i think about that's what he believes or he's saying that's human nature it's human nature yeah right it's not what he wants to believe but he's like there's something about that that we if we don't find it outside we find it it within. And when we find it within, it's always over bullshit, right? It's not like 150 years ago where people were literally fighting over like slavery, like something horrible, right? It's usually stupid shit where people, if they really thought about it, they'd be on the same page. Yes. So if we could give them more things to focus on where they're going to be on the same page we can get somewhere and that's important because that's what drives me crazy with the environment because it's like and that's where yes being out in the jungle seeing the burning forest seeing wildlife die

seeing local people indigenous groups being pushed off their land by invasions and gold mining and heavy machinery and all this stuff and then you come back and people try to even politicize whether or not you think we should protect natural systems like oh environmentalists on this side it's like whoa i'm sorry that's nuts do you breathe and do you drink water then yeah then then then we're all on the same side yeah we are all on the same side on that one i don't want to hear that to me that should be the great unifier and the fact that you know if we're going to lose black rhinos there may be some variance in with somehow hunters always want to fix it's like cowboys they think they can fix every problem by shooting it um here they come um but you know then you have the other side which is the bunny huggers that want no animals to die.

You know, the cows and the chickens. We need to go vegan. And so it's even there you have a spectrum. But for me, even then, I've laser focused wild animals, wild species that have existed on Earth for millions of years, long before we got here. They need to be protected. They are the thing that is endangered right now that could irreversibly be deleted from existence. And that terrifies me. And, you know, we can talk about how cool Bushmasters are and how cool elephants are, but if I've seen anything out in the wild, it's that what people forget, you know, when you're a kid, you see a,

you read a book about a forest and you know, these animals live in the forest. What they don't necessarily hit on is that those animals are making the forest. The bats are carrying ironwood seeds. The orchid bees are pollinating Brazil nuts. All the animals, the leafcutter ants are taking all of that plant life, all of those leaves and flowers and pulling it underground and farming it.

Fungus is digesting the leaves of the forest. Otherwise the Amazon would cover itself in leaves and extinguish itself. So all the animals are creating the forest. The forest is creating the weather. The weather is creating our environment. It's all connected. At some point, it needs to become basic human knowledge

that we need the fish in the rivers. It comes standard with life on earth. It's beautiful. You get sunshine, clean water, fish, all this amazing stuff. It's ours to fuck up. It's ours to ruin. And right now we've gone too far on the side of we're destroying our oceans. We're destroying our forests.

We're losing our tropical rainforests. The great thing right now and the thing that is not going to repeat itself in history is that we can still push most of it back we've lost the thylacine we've lost the dodo we've lost the caspian tiger we've lost some species along the way but we still have polar bears we still have humpback whales we still have tigers tigers are coming back they went from a hundred thousand down to three thousand and now we're back up i think we're approaching six thousand tigers globally look that up chris i'm gonna say a hundred thousand tigers in 1900 and then i want to say around 1990 probably around three thousand tigers and god damn it texas and then now they all went fucking texas fucking texas how many tigers are left

good oh yeah that second one right there world tiger puppy no no no well actually that works right yeah but when is this from though that's only from 1970 and it was already down to 40,000 then and 2010 we have it down to 3 yeah looks like about 3 and now you said it's coming back a little bit

yeah it's bounced back a little bit what's that chart to the you just went off it go back to the first one we had chris yep you have the mouse to your right by the way and then see the chart on the on the tab that we just click go all the way to the right see the one that has the blue and the green what does that say okay so that's looking at how it could how it could that's a projection though okay so that's just a projection

yeah what was what was the real reason behind a lot of that tigers yeah that was straight up no no it was a few prongs it was it was i would say three prongs if i'm thinking quickly it was first of all extermination in a lot of regions they would just exterminate tigers because i mean you have a big terrifying striped animal living near your village and sooner or later tigers don't really look as at humans as prey but sooner or later you're going to get that old tiger that doesn't really have teeth that work anymore maybe they fell out and it can't hunt the deer it's going to try a human and then you get it's all you get a man-eating tiger and then so yeah so you get humans eradicate we've eradicated predators there's still bounties on coyote hunting in this country they incur governments encourage you

to murder predators and as we know now predators are what hold the entire ecosystem together predators manage the ecosystem the lions and the jackals and the leopards all manage the prey species all the deer and the gazelles and everything else and so like wolves and yellowstone is the classic example of that that when they reintroduced wolves to Yellowstone, all of a sudden, they saw the entire ecosystem shift and then fall into place. Where because the wolves kept the prey animals moving quicker, it chose, it made them graze in a way where they didn't eat everything down to the earth.

They would graze a little bit and move on, graze a little bit and move on. They were more active, they were looking for wolves. And so, it changed the behavior, which changed the botanical ecology, which then allowed beavers to move in, which then the beavers changed the way the the water worked and then you saw fish populations bouncing back and you saw the eagles acting differently and it's like everything domino effect it also matters where they are though too right so

if you have coyotes running around like la you can't you can't have that no they're gonna eat people's dogs right yeah and it happens sure so when governments when you're talking about governments are encouraging people to kill some yeah do you think they need a better yeah do you think they need a better define where meaning like maybe the governor of montana shouldn't be encouraging his people to kill coyotes because it's wide open i i i think that i'm gonna stick it to i'm gonna i'll stick with tigers because I'm actually like the the politics around the predator stuff in this country is Savage um but in in India they saw you know sharp decline in Tiger numbers over the last century there's even someone that had um attached machine guns to a Rolls Royce as a tiger hunting type in Tiger

hunting Rolls Royce Tiger hunting Rolls Royce he had attached guns to a Rolls Royce so he could go Tiger hunting and of course the British would go there and blow away some Tigers see there it is look at the top right top right there's a black and white picture oh Oh my God. Just let that preview go away. There you go. Right there. Look at that. Oh my God. Yeah. So tigers were exterminated. Tigers. I don't know.

Is that this end? Where's that coming from? Oh, mine. Sorry. It comes in the computer sometimes. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm like, I messaged. I forgot to turn the volume off the computer. So they, so the three things. They faced extermination. They faced habitat destruction. And then they also – the killer for them was at their prey base because the humans would kill all the deer.

And a tiger needs like a deer a week to live. And so in South India, one of the – which is where – India is the country that has the most tigers of any country right now. And they've done an incredible job of managing a massive human population with also somehow still managing to have an incredible network of protected areas. these tiger reserves if there is enough deer the tigers will survive and then protect the area and then connect the areas that are protected create corridor systems and so that's why they're having such huge success because they're actually putting in they have that national pride and that we have tigers it's part of their national identity it's become it's actually one of the most interesting conservation stories because to me like a tiger is one of the most like if you're going to show aliens what are some species on planet earth you'd be like tiger whale elephant right yeah yeah but it's like this is the most impressive land predator we have it's gigantic it's orange it's got black stripes i mean they literally have teeth on their tongue it's such an incredible

killing can we get a picture of that tiger tongue yeah tiger teeth tongue's good just like you're uh like when a cat licks your finger and you feel that little rough texture when a tiger licks your finger the skin comes off chris you're doing a great job filling in today this was a tough one to get yeah there's all there's a lot of visuals with this stuff big shout out to chris because alessi's on out in colorado holy shit yeah yep i didn't know it was that oh it even hurts on the way down i mean they're they are they are so perfectly made for killing their teeth their claws had tongues like that. They'd run the world. You've seen the inside of a leatherback sea turtle's mouth.

Paul, do I look like a guy who's seen the inside of a leatherback sea turtle's mouth? All right, one more, Chris. One more for now. You got a leatherback sea turtle mouth. is this is gonna fuel your nightmares for a while where can i find a leather oh my god yeah click that one isn't there a shark that has a mouth like that not like that not oh it's it's it's like a conveyor belt of backwards facing teeth. Oh my God. Oh. Yeah.

Oh, that's the stuff of medieval torture right there. Yep. What did the fish that you guys talk about, what's it called? The penis eating fish in the Amazon? Yeah, Kandiru. What are they called? Kandiru. Their mouth don't look like that, does it?

Nothing looks like that. That's, that's, thank God it's a sea turtle. Not that that makes me feel better. Thank God it's a sea turtle. What is this thing? Can we actually see what this animal looks like, though? This turtle? Leatherback?

It's the largest sea turtle. You would never think that that's what they're... Leatherbacks are incredible. That's an amazing animal. This is the one that has a mouth like that? Yeah, so this big, giant, gentle giant. God, they look so gentle.

Yeah, they are gentle. Just if you stick your hand in their mouth... You're never gonna see it again. No. Can they even taste? There's no taste with that. They just have teeth.

I have to admit, I know nothing about what a turtle can and cannot taste how would we know i'm sure there's somebody that knows um you wait hold up hold up it's a i mean we know they have good smell right let's start with that um i've seen turtles yellow-footed tortoises in the amazon i see them they love rotting food like they know that rotting food is more appealing than so they're very smell-based actually like they're very wise rotting food more well it smells more it's probably also softer probably sweeter most of which are now protected species actually fall on the beefy side often be

compared to veal and both flip wait no this is talking about now we're talking about illegal eating. Illegal eating. Oh, man. Offsides and illegal eating. Yeah. 15-yard penalty. What is JJ and the guys down there who – well, first of all, does JJ ever come back to America with you that much? No.

I want him to. Never. And when he does – Oh, absolutely. I've been asking. I want to do a podcast with you guys. You know what he does oh absolutely i've been asking i want to do you know what actually the internet has been asking that i've when i when i do like you know i wanted to do it the first time so what i do is uh after the first podcast that we did last year it was we i had so much fun reading that when people don't believe something i think it's hysterical so i was sitting next to jj on the couch at the research station i was like jj you got a second come here sit down i was like look at this i was like at the research station. I was like, JJ, you got a second? Come here. Sit down.

I was like, look at this. I was like, I showed him the video and it's like me and you talking about the guy that got kidnapped. He's like, oh yeah. He's like, we looked for him so hard. He's like, that was so crazy. So scary. Right.

And I went, no, JJ, look at the comments. Trust me, bro. And he was like, he was like, wait, he's like, they don't. What? And I'm like, no, they don't believe it. And he was like, why? He was like that. He was that one and he was like why he's like that he was that one he was like that's stupid but then i was like the story of the floating forest and jumping on the anaconda and and he was like he was we ended up howling laughing

because we were looking at all these people on youtube who have never you know you gotta walk around with a gopro on your head man that's the only thing well i mean i i think we do a pretty good job i think that you know you do a great job i'm just saying how ridiculous they are the fact that we caught an 18 foot snake and we saw one that was seven feet bigger and we didn't get to catch it it's like well that's you know if you need it can you tell that story for people who haven't heard it about catching the snake which one uh so yeah so the anaconda so me and jj were on this environment that we call the floating forest and the floating forest is a place where the lake has come up to the tops of the trees and so it's a very deep lake but the tops of the trees are connected by these grassy mats that are growing

in between the tops of the trees and the anacondas have used this sort of as their mecca. They all go there. There's streams that connect it. And so all the anacondas stay at the floating forest because they have the strategic advantage that if anything walks on these floating islands, they know about it. The entire place is just this giant tympanic membrane in that way. So the top of the water trembles the anacondas that's their alarm system and so they can bask in the sun and just know that they're totally safe and then so they all go there that's where they breed that's where they hang out that's where they socialize jj and i had gone there and on the first night that we went there on the first night that we discovered that we could walk on the grassy mats that are over the water we found a snake that i now know was somewhere in the order of 25 to 27 feet long the only measurements that i know from this snake is

that i jumped on this snake tried to wrap my arms around it and i couldn't touch my fingers i could not touch my fingertips and i know this because on the grass, as I was being propelled forward, I was basically riding a snake. And as I'm being dragged across the grass, the mats are porous, they're floating in the water. And so I shoved my hands under to try and like, couldn't do it. That's how thick the snake was. And so it carried me for some time. And then when we got to the edge of this little grassy island, the snake dove. Now she could have turned around opened her mouth and just toasted me she went straight down and this is the middle of the night this is like 2 a.m or something and so my face dunked into the black water and that's that that way if i had finally reached my limit i let go

and then i remember finally holding on to the side of the grass and the snake was going by and again i was sort of just you know sort of trying to make sure this was real and the snake the body's rushing by me just pour dumping into the water and as she went you know and then and her tail just slipped by and dunk into the water and i just left there breathing just floating up and down in the water going holy shit and then i turn around and i look at jj and he's just he just wasn't moving and i was like you could have helped and he was like no no um so yeah that was the biggest one we ever saw but then throughout the years the biggest one we ever caught was so i'm saying if i'm estimating that one was in the 25-foot range, I don't have an exact length on it.

The biggest one that we ever caught was 18 feet 6 inches, which we've checked all of scientific literature. That doesn't sound that big, but it's the biggest one that's been verifiably measured. How do you catch it? I tried to get some of my best friends, Lee, Mosen, Pat, JJ. There's all these people that were together, and we formed this anaconda team. Our guy, JJ's brother, Pico, who can't really walk because of a disability, but he was the boat driver, and he knows the jungle. So we were all out there, just the sort of dream team of anaconderos. And we checked the place day one, no snakes. Checked the place day two, two no snakes and then there's something that happens in the amazon where sometimes the temperature drops they call it free in it

the temperature drops very low it gets actually cold it'll go down to 50 degrees in the amazon in the amazon by the equator edge of the andes yes and so the mountain air settles down in the jungle and for a while it cold. Now, a few days of freezing cold for a reptile, like an anaconda, which is an ectotherm. We're endotherms. We produce our own body heat. They're ectotherms. They rely on their ambient temperature for their body heat. They are dying for the sun. And it's been cold and cloudy for days. And we go back out and we're on this 20-foot canoe. And we're going and we're passing this island of floating vegetation, and I can just see JJ turn. And he's like, there's one.

There's a snake right there. I get to the front of the boat. There's so many defining moments in my life that start with JJ grabbing my shoulders, and we both look down his finger, and he goes right there. And he's like, that's where it is. And I get to the front of the boat. They the boat right up in i jumped in i threw my hat because i didn't want to lose it and i grabbed this snake and then as soon as i grabbed the snake she dives and now we're floating so what happens when you grab a snake that weighs 220 pounds and it's 18 feet

long and it's thrashing in the water and i'm going all over so i'm just getting destroyed in the water and all the all the other team is jumping in and you see boom boom boom people hitting the water everybody's grabbing onto the snake but there's nothing to hold on to the grass is coming apart we're sinking the snake has grabbed onto something and i see jj and we know we have a film crew with us. We're trying to do this for research. This is the defining moment of the expedition. And JJ and this guy, Jonas, who was on the trip with us, the two of them were like, we have to get the head.

Everything is you have to get the head. And usually I'm the person that gets the head. But in this situation, I had a lock on like the tail and I'm posted up against this branch trying to keep the tail. And I just see these guys like in that moment, you know, everything's happening. They're splashing water. And I just made eye contact with them right before they just went. And they go under.

And you know that under there, they're rope climbing along anaconda body looking for the head. And my question is, if you find it, then what? Yeah. Isn't it just going to – that's when it's going to defensively try to eat gonna defensive that's when it's going to defensively try to eat you and if you get wrapped under there yeah goodbye yeah so i've seen the movie anaconda that was one of the most insane things i've ever seen in my life and so then at some point they they had part of the body and i was losing the tail and the people are drowning and then all of a sudden 15 feet over there the head pops up the anaconda needed a breath as we're

fighting and everything the anaconda needed to take a breath and so the head popped up over there somebody saw it from the boat i ran over there and then that's one of those moments where you just go and i got my hands on the head and then it's like where on it like right behind the neck right behind the neck so it can't like right i could again thick neck now what did it do like it freak out i actually don't i can't remember if it opened its mouth or not there is gopro of that moment i had a chest gopro on do we have that on the internet it's not on the internet i have i can send it to you i can send it send it to me we'll put it on the screen i uh i get her by the head and then i just remember thinking you you know, sort of here we go. Okay, I'm going to do this.

And then the next thing that's going to happen is she's going to wrap me. And I just said, I'm going to do it. And all my friends are here and I hope it's going to be okay. So I grabbed her by the head and that was a moment that I really had to just be like, whatever happens next happens next. And then the snake did. She started coiling and the the next thing that i remember is when hands got onto my shoulders and then they pulled us onto the boat me and the snake wrapped up together with you in the middle like being coiled

or not constrict she was she was she was really just trying to get away she was not even defensively trying to crush me she was just trying to get away so She was not even defensively trying to crush me. She was just trying to get away. So she was wrapping me. How big is the boat? This boat was big enough. They flop us, boom. I go into the boat and everyone starts high-fiving and I'm still holding on to this snake. There's a live snake and 18-foot anaconda.

Yeah, but we did it. And we didn't die. Yeah, but like she's not dead. No, I mean I had the head and then everybody else was on the body. We got control and so yeah, we did it. So you just sat on her like a chair the rest of the way? And then we got – I mean, we went right over to the side, stretched her out, measured her 18 feet, 6 inches. I mean, we weighed her 220 pounds, everything.

Did you have snake hooks at that point? No. There's no – you couldn't hold anything. That's funny. I laughed because – but there's nothing that you could – you's funny i laughed because but there's there's nothing that you could you can't lift her up she's too heavy it's like how much did she weigh 18 feet six inches 220 pounds but she was skinny she hadn't i was gonna say that's a skinny that she was very skinny way lower i thought you were gonna say so think if she'd eaten anything she would

have been a 300 pound snake snake. That even sounds low. Not for 18 feet. Really? No, no, no, no. But that fucking snake that was trying to eat you on that fake eat you on that show, that was only 300 pounds? I don't know. What's that effect when people remember something that didn't happen? Because the show, there was was never at the end of that

show they pull out like a little 16 foot snake not the 16 foot anaconda isn't tiny but it's not a record breaker right 16 foot anaconda next to a person there's no way it's going to eat a person and all they did in the end was drape it over it really really not much happened. So the biggest event of that was the capture I'm describing was the wild capture of this snake. That was – What did you do with it? We measured her. We weighed her. And then we inserted a tracking device down her throat.

So she was going to carry it. No. She carried it for a few months and then she pooped it out. But what we got – Couldn't chip her? We couldn't.'t we didn't have it on hand but we did have a really cool tracking device and so we were able to monitor her activity over the next few months which what did that look like when on earth has a ancient i mean who knows how old she is is she 50 years old is she 100 years old is she 20 years old you don't know how old the snake is they have indeterminate growth not really um it's not like you can like it's not like an

elephant where you could like check her teeth or something um but it was one of the first times that we were able to see how anacondas use their environment because what we do know is we're learning right now that smaller male anacondas will very much pursue their prey if you read the textbooks from 10 years ago they'll say anacondas are ambush predators and they sit in this one spot for a long time until an animal walks by well that's not true they use the streams and they use their scent to go up the streams and to look at look for prey and they're very they're smarter than we think too they employ strategies that you probably wouldn't think an anaconda could use um but the large females when else in history has an 18 foot snake had a transmitter in it this is this is science that

no one's been able to do before so getting a window into these things has been a way to understand something about the largest snakes on the planet that that never has been understood before especially in the western amazon the only place that that anacondas had been studied was the venezuelan janus janos can we pull that up on a map what's it called venezuelan venezuelan venezuelan ll yeah that that's the only place anacondas were? Were studied because this guy, Jesus Rivas, was doing tons of anaconda work. He famously... He's this anaconda specialist who... So they're not all over the Amazon? They are.

The Venezuelan Llanos isn't even in the Amazon, I believe. I think it's north of the Amazon. It's way up in Venezuela. Huh. But he would... Jesus Rivas would go around barefoot walking through this wetland catching anacondas but on on the whole they're not as big as the ones that are in the amazon they're not they're generally a small you know they just aren't growing as large in the amazon you get these snakes where you know something has started off as a little you know two foot little baby snake you get snakes that they'll find a spot

where they have guaranteed food copy bearer stuff like that yeah let's just say it's a place that animals come every week to drink and this big anaconda parks herself in the edge of this swamp a nice deep swamp that she can hide in capybara comes by takes a drink boom she nails it she goes under she sleeps for six months pops her head up every 20 minutes to take a breath nobody's gonna nobody's gonna eat her while so she's safe while she's sleeping oh so they can't breathe underground they can't breathe underwater at all no except for fish nothing really can um but the the whole thing is strategic safety because if an if a jaguar was to see that anaconda right now jaguar would go and kill that anaconda but if this big anaconda this female because now that now anaconda is like like

peacock sexual dimorphism you have difference the females are much bigger than the males yeah three four times the size of the males and so let's just say you have this tiny little baby anaconda and it grows up to be 10 feet 11 feet and so it's getting to be a decent sized snake and it finds that perfect spot in that swamp and it can pinch off an animal regularly and so every so it's getting to be a decent sized snake and it finds that perfect spot in that swamp and it can pinch off an animal regularly and so every time it's right along a game trail and every time so if it's just deleting an animal capybara wait a few months just sleep it off capybara and then do that for 35 years with something like a capybara would it just try to immediately swallow that or would it do the whole no it has to capybara have it just try to immediately swallow that or would it do the whole no it has

capybara have teeth man like beaver teeth so if that anaconda catches the capybara by the arm if it's not a perfect strike and that capybara turns around it'll chew the anaconda in half yeah yeah that's why they're they that oh yeah that's why they wrap it and they crush that's why they crush everything they crush the life right out of it also makes it um a better more agreeable shape to swallow but the i'm so fascinated by this element that if you get the perfect spot whether it's a crocodile or an anaconda but especially with the anacondas in the amazon you you the perfect location this giant anaconda and then you routinely allow her food boom boom boom every month she's nailing something she's just gonna grow two unbelievable sizes and so an 18 foot snake is big the 25 foot was a whole it's like you know like you said like asian elephant versus

african elephant it's an order of magnitude bigger it's a whole different ball game is everything about them is bigger everything is so much bigger and so my reasoning goes if we've seen if we've caught an 18 footer and if we've seen a 25 footer there has to be a 35 footer out there somewhere like it just it has to be and if there's a 35 footer out there somewhere i want to see her i don't even care about catching her. I don't care about photographing her. It might be the last thing you see, Paul. It might be the last thing I see, but man, the rush from seeing that. Imagine just, imagine just, so one time, one time I was in a kayak. I was in a pack raft.

Shout out to alpaca rafts. I was in a pack raft and it was the morning and I'm just going, again, floating vegetation, grass. And I'm going past this grass and i just like surprise this anaconda you know when like john travolta comes out of the bathroom and bruce willis is standing there with the machine gun oh i just like i looked and anaconda saw me and i saw the anaconda and i was like oh and the anacondas went no and just jumped in the water and it's probably about this big so you're talking like a 15 foot anaconda but imagine if it had been this one you know and it was it was a big uh-huh now it would be bye-bye if i imagine it would happen like this which i would never do but it would be like you go to the edge of this godforsaken swamp deep in the jungle which again

you're this deep in the jungle far from where hunters go deep deep deep in some corner of the amazon where this anaconda has been living for half a century and you'd have to like go bend down to the water to wash your hands or something and then that's when she would explode out and grab you by the neck and coil you and crush your entire rib cage and suck you down yeah sure i mean or or or by the ribs who knows but i'm saying this giant anaconda that we're talking about doesn't pose a risk to us because she's not going to be near the city she's not going to be where humans are she's going to be deep in the amazon and if you walk your ass deep into the amazon and invest the days and the gasoline and the effort to get that deep into the jungle and then decide to go

fuck around by the edges of the, of the swamps that you find there, then. I saw a little bit. That's it. Yeah. Um, there was a family.

Now the other hand is like a snake like that. There was a family that moved to our region of the Amazon from the mountains. How big is that snake? think i would say 12 feet eight that doesn't look like a big snake to me okay but like that snake in that environment could be dangerous to a child there was a kid an eight-year-old kid was killed by an anaconda eaten he was almost eaten the family found him while the snake was going over his shoulders and they they like hit it off with sticks and the snake pulled off and then dove into the water and was gone they didn't actually kill the snake which is interesting they actually called us to remove they just wanted us to remove the snake from their swamp and we spent a few days camping there we didn't find anything. Do we have a picture of anaconda with human in its belly?

You won't find anaconda. You will find reticulated python with Indonesian grandmother in its belly. All right. Well, let's look that one up. Reticulated python. They are the only confirmed. What a Google. That was the most.

That was right on point, Chris. That was the most uh that was right on point chris that was the most accurate google ever see uh yeah one oh the one on the far right missing indonesian or even python eats 54 year old grandmother in indonesia like there's a video they actually you know they cut her out it ate her no no the one with the writing where it says python eats 54. That one, yeah. Somewhere there's an actual video. See there?

The second bottom thumbnail where the guy's reaching in? Yeah, yeah. That's the one. All right, let's grab this. How long ago was this? I don't know. It's within the last 10 years. 2018. All right, go down.

It should be a video, right? video right yeah oh it's unavailable see if you can go straight to youtube and say indonesian grandmother swallowed it's bad that i like kind of want to see this but i kind of want to see this i mean swallowed by anaconda pa Paul Rosalie's going to come home. Yeah, he did. Oh, that was too good. Damn it. Alright. Grandma Indonesia. It wasn't Anaconda,

that's why I fucked it up. It a reticular python oh come on they're blaring it i have an internet question okay where else can you go like if you don't want to see shit that's blurred out like is there like a website that's like no holds barred dark web what is the dark web how does one get stay out of the dark web stay out of the pool you know i don't need you i don't need you getting arrested. How do you even access? Do you know how to access the dark web, Chris? No. What?

What's rumble? No, no, no, no. Like the dark web. Like where Silk Road was and all that. What the fuck is the dark web? That's it? You just need a VPN? But is the dark web like a website?

No, the dark web is like, well, I'm not the person to answer that question that well. But it's like – it's places where everything illegal happens. Okay. Including like – by the way, like awful shit. Awful. Sure. Like the worst. The internet is bad enough.

Yeah. No, but I would – the reason I'm asking is that like there's so many times where you search like – do you remember E-bombs world? Yes. Remember those websites where you could go and there'd just be like crazy shit yeah and i feel like in the last few years you can't really find the crazy shit it's harder it's getting harder you're right like for a while remember then the i think it was like al-qaeda was killing journalists and stuff like those videos isis yeah and we'd get those videos and you just click on it and there there were there it was

and it's like now we can't even watch grandma get cut out of a python like the fuck's going on yeah i mean they ai has helped with that ai find spot shit spots the bad stuff yep like even when i had joe b warwick in here who one of the pulitzers he won was for the book black flags which is on isis it's like the greatest book ever written about the history of ISIS. The most fascinating terrorist figure I think I've ever come across. We're familiar with Bin Laden. Bin Laden and Zawahiri, his number two guy, they were of a completely different type. These were people who were professionals.

Bin Laden was an engineer. His number two was a medical physician. So they're educated sophisticated people they have sort of a strategic vision of this terrorist organization trying to create so khali was none of that he was just a street tough and all we did was put the word isis in the title and i had to work with youtube three different times to remonetize it because youtube the the company, was like, oh, yeah, this content is fine. Monetize.

And then even when I had to go back to them to fix it because it got demonetized, the AI kept on undoing their work. Whoa. That was a little creepy. Because it was ISIS. It didn't understand. Just because it had the word ISIS in it. Okay. Because in the past, like apparently – and I don't – I didn't have firsthand experience with this, but the way I've read is that in the past, like when ISIS was coming up, one of the ways they were able to spread is because videos were spreading like wildfire on platforms like YouTube of like the worst shit before YouTube human beings could go and fix it.

That's how they established their – the fear, right? Correct. So now it just – there's like auto tags for stuff. So I know if I bring in Joe, it'd be all right. Let's not put isis in the title but i still kind of want i guess i guess defeating isis is more important than this but i still kind of want like a no holds barred like a youtube with like an insane no holds like a setting you could put on youtube where you're just like look just show me as long as it's not like yeah it's not completely illegal but if you're like you know bus knocks

woman's skull out of her skin i am just like i just kind of want just like i just want to say okay like you know like i just want to be able to you're gonna have to do that at a company it's not a publicly traded company like google wow no but i'm saying we really saw the internet then it really was the wild west when we were growing up because for a while there were those websites where like you could just there was like dash cam shit where it was like you'd see some crazy stuff oh yeah like crazy stuff yeah stuff that would reordern reorganize how you think about the world you'd be like what did i just see now when you post something with a little too much blood there's like a fucking fog label on it going this content has been flagged as sensitive find out why i'm just trying

to think of the last thing i posted that people were begging me to put a uh there's some posts i did in the last month where people like you how could you not put a you know a warning on this post go fuck yourself i'm not posting anything bad there's so many other people you could follow i mean they're they're made they're talking about making a law in the uk i saw this recently but they're talking about a law that says they're gonna like ban social media for 16 and lower and like there's some slippery slopes to that for sure i'm not saying i agree with it but it's interesting because then if they did that could you take the could you take the the handcuffs off these companies then because it's like well you're old enough to be on here you're old enough to see what you can.

See, I don't think, though. I don't think that. I actually disagree. I think that you don't. You wouldn't want. I only really do Instagram. But I wouldn't want. It's such a positive place. And I'm saying that from a truly, like, when I go on Instagram, my instagram is wildlife photographers kickflips you know

mountaineers whales dolphins you know it's just it's just so much fun shit and it's a lot of people i know in the community i don't want to have to worry about bad shit on instagram as it is the israel and palestine thing i unfollowed like 16 people because i was just like even friends of mine i get it that you care i don't want that shit in my life i don't want to see that that's some that's some horror. Actually, actually, those videos are making it through. Some of them. Some of them.

Some of them. But some of the ones that made it through, like if you. There's a lot, you got to remember though, there's like 2 million videos an hour going up. So it's easier to making it through but i'm saying like there is a while where um because i had come back from the jungle and i would you know i would just go to try to just go straight to my drafts just post something and i would see like you know the worst the worst shit i'd ever seen like stuff that were like you know you can't believe what you just saw like collapsed buildings on a school and like all this like and actual footage of this stuff and i was like i was like whatever whatever this is whoever this is

i cannot be seeing this like i it's i get it i understand what the word war means like but so yes for a while that was making it through yeah i mean so we kind of just disproved ourselves right there i don't i don't want to say that but but you're not no you're not disproving yourself because you're right there's a lot of it that is policed i mean there's shit police now like on on youtube the first 20 minutes of my videos i have to go it's work for me i do it myself i have to go in and silence all curse words i don't do that for i don't do that for spotify or apple but when i started doing that because it's kind of what the advertisers want it improved my youtube tremendously

so it goes against how i think of things like if you're afraid of words you know that aren't like racially related meaning like if you're afraid of fucking shit like i'm not the guy for you sorry like i'm from new jersey but i'm so i'm surprised that that the the platforms are doing that though me too but i i i wasn't my idea i saw that a lot of bigger channels were doing that and i know these are channels that are definitely in touch with youtube and it changed my channel right away when i started doing that for sure so you know it's sad we got to do that though well what we need is is is crazy shit that's and we we need it i just want to be able to see if if like let's just say somebody films a snake and it's halfway

through eating grandma and her feet are still sticking out of its mouth and the snake is working on her but then like one of the other film one of the other workers on the farm is like filming this and you just see her feet going down the snake's mouth like i want to be able to find that video that's what i'm really trying to say okay it's what it's all on telegram on telegram telegram channels where it's like you can subscribe to that kind of that might be the spot interesting what is what is telegram what is the dark web i mean you could have anything it's just like a big group chat you know telegram you could have 50 000 people that are in a site it's kind of like discord but like no rules yeah no rules it's like a lot of so like a lot you know what pa? It's good that you don't know these things.

Don't worry about it. I don't need to fill your head with this stuff. No, no, because the fact that he said, oh, this is like this, and you're like, oh, yeah, and I've never even heard of that. That's good. What is it? Don't worry about it. Okay, fine. All right?

Going back to the jungle. You're doing great. You're doing great. Keep doing podcasts and Instagram. We'll keep growing that. Okay. By the way, if you're not subscribed to Paul on Instagram, go get that credit card out it's a great five dollars spent you're putting up a lot of content there now too i know i am and i'm and i'm i want to start asking you and everybody else um what

like i want to make it different and i want to like i know what i want to do you know what i mean like i want to just like put like because i I don't feel comfortable. I don't want my main Instagram feed to be what I'm doing every day. But like with like the toucan, like there's so many videos where I'm like, yo, I'm teaching a toucan how to fly. It's like goofy shit. And it's like, that's what the subscriber thing could be like. Yeah. That'll be fun.

So I'm still like getting, getting the hang of that. And it all supports Jungle Keepers doing that. Well, yes. Jungle Keepers though, the difference is that's that's my channel that's that's under the paul rosely umbrella jungle keepers is jungle keeper so monthly subscription to jungle keepers is a different thing oh you separated them out what am i subscribed to am i subscribed to you or jungle keepers or both i don't know i don't know you might be jungle keepers has so many donors at this point that i can can't keep them straight. I don't have the – like if I look at the master list, it would take me a while to scroll through it.

That's good. That's really good. It wasn't like that 14 months ago. On Instagram, I only have a few people. All right. And you're one of them. Gotcha. Okay.

All right. Well, go do that. I'll find out, which I think I'm on your personal. I might be on Jungle Keepers 2 or one or the other. But go do that for sure, people. But what about like when you went down there, obviously, JJ had lived in this environment his whole life and everything, but he's able to track animals by using some of their sounds too. And he's taught you how to do that. Like did he start doing that right away when you got down there and how quickly were you able to pick some of that up jj with animal tracking

see the crazy thing when you when you see someone with skill at this level is that you know at first you're you're talking like this and then you you're having a conversation with somebody you don't know if they're a war hero you don't know what they've been through you just you can't see the the sum of experience that a human contains and when you're walking through the jungle with jj you're talking about normal stuff and he's asked you know we're asking each other questions then all of a sudden you'll just see him stop and be like oh i haven't seen this seed in 20 years you know and then he'll tell you the story about the seed and you're like how do you remember that seed looks like all the other seeds or recently there was this thing where we stopped

and you know he's teaching me this stuff and so he we're walking and he stops by the edge of a stream and he goes look at that jaguar trip print right there and i was like oh nice and he was like tell me what you see i was like male jaguar he was like good congrats and he was like what else so i like look around and i'm like okay and i'm like oh shit it drank i could see two two paws you know and and the the toes were pushed down more he's like very good you know he's like he's like be impatient with me he's like yeah what like he's like can you get there i'm like i'm trying so i like lay down on the ground i'm like looking at these tracks and then and he's like look okay actually he's like there's a reason that we have to go faster than this he's right behind you well he was like see the tracks that

you're looking at and i was like yes he's like you see how there's like leaves and bits of stuff in there and some pollen like sprinkled over it and they're kind of dry and i was like yeah he's like well look at those and they're like right over here there's another set another drinking set and the mud was still settling and i went wait what and he was like yeah and i went wait hold up so what we know about jaguars is that jaguars have huge home ranges that they patrol they're always doing these huge patrols so i'm like this is old enough that it's from yesterday and there's leaves in it. And then this is obviously from today. And then there's a huge piece of jaguar shit on the beach and it's got butterflies all over it. And JJ picks it up.

It's pretty dry. And he goes. Oh, he picks up the shit with his hands? Picks up the log of shit. It's mostly fur. Pulls out some of the fur and he goes, what do you think this is? And I went, red brocket deer? And he goes, yes, red brocket deer.

What's that? It's a deer. It's a small deer that lives brocket deer. What's that? It's a deer. It's a small deer that lives in the jungle. I thought that was one word. Sorry. And so then I'm like, okay, so wait. And now I'm getting it. And he's like, uh-huh.

So the jaguar was here yesterday. The jaguar came here and shit. Red brocket deer. Drank today. And then he's like, now look at this. And he takes my shoulder and he turns me around. And there's a vulture. There's two pair of vultures right up on this branch and i'm like what's wrong with these vultures they're not looking at us they're so close to us but they're

not looking at us they're looking right over there because the jaguar had killed the red brocket deer had come to the river to drink gone back to the deer eaten more slept came back took a drink today and that and took a shit and the vultures weren't looking at us because there was a greater predator just out of our view the jaguar was sitting on its kill while we're having a conversation about its tracks it's just on the other side of the bushes how far away 20 feet while jj is sitting here telling me all this he was like then now he's like that's why i was trying to rush you he was like there's literally a jaguar right behind those leaves and so he's like come on let's go and i was like okay cool like he's like we probably should just let it let it eat and i was like okay yeah yeah but it's like that stuff like that you know you're sitting

you're sitting and and his delivery is very very like that he's like yeah yeah lay down on your stomach roll around look at the butterflies whatever else and he's just like tracking this jaguar and he's like look at some point you got to finish the test right because we might not have all day like how often how close can you get to a jaguar and think it's gonna most likely be fine uh depends on the individual it depends how how um it depends the tempo at which you meet so uh jj has a story where he he told me that he and the great thing is he doesn't mind me impersonating his voice um he's seen all the podcast clips um but he told me the story he was like yeah i was walking through the forest and he goes, so for a while I sit and I was enjoying the forest.

And I was like, well, that's really nice. JJ goes, yeah. He goes, the cappuccinos are there. And he's talking about the cappuccino monkeys. He loves saying cappuccinos. And I said, okay. So I'm imagining JJ sitting in the forest on a log, looking at the cappuccino monkeys. He goes, and then he goes, I see the Jaguar.

He's also looking at the cappuccinos, but he doesn't see me. So JJ's sitting on a log, chilling, enjoying the monkeys. And this jaguar comes out and is looking at tracking the monkeys, not realizing that JJ's just sitting there. And then he was like, for a while I sat there. He goes, and then he goes, then I move and the jaguar saw me. And he goes, he feels so embarrassed. And he goes.

And like in JJ and these guys, they all talk about each animal as if it's like a single character. You know, like the fox does this. Right. The jaguar does that. And so, you know, he said, oh, when he saw me, he felt so embarrassed. You know, like you picture a cat just being like, oh, shit, I i didn't know you were there and then it just went off into the jungle but like he was you ran from him 20 feet didn't you it doesn't have to run i don't think you're in this situation i don't think it ran i think it just you know oh shit i don't want to be they

don't like being watched they want to be the ones watching i am the one who knocks you know you just and then the the you know you just went off i've had uh i think i told you this one but i was on a trail one time and i was looking at something off trail and i heard like loud steps it was the dry season so there's a lot of leaves on the ground and i turned around to yell at whoever was walking that loud and this jaguar walked by and just went so didn't break its stride walked right by me as, like your TV is as close as the Jaguar was. Just at full speed, walked right by me. Just went, yo.

Just gave me this little head nod, like, yeah, I know you're there. It's okay. Never stopped walking. Didn't care that I was there. And I was just standing there in the jungle with my finger up like, oh, my God. And then you go, holy shit, did that just happen? You got to go put your hands in the jungle with my finger up like oh my god you know and then you go holy shit did that just happen you gotta go put your finger put your hands in the in the prints on the grant okay yeah that was real well you told you told the story last time about sleeping on the

hammock and waking up to the breath of a jaguar right in your ear like literally right here and you were frozen and then it left did what did do you ever wonder why it didn't attack you no i think they're curious and i think that with cats what they're with the big cats in the wild i think that they're they're predatory i'm just gonna say they're predatory proclivities but i'll stop with the alliteration they're their predatory knowledgeclivities, but I'll stop with the alliteration. Their predatory knowledge is so based on what their mothers teach them, so dependent on what their mothers teach them, that they're used to handling horizontal prey. So they're used to running after a rabbit. They're used to running after a deer.

They're used to how to take down that deer, how to wrap it with your claws, how to get to its throat and i think that a vertical naked primate that smells like shampoo and old spice and like i think they just get freaked out i think they're just like you know what this thing has way too many smells and just i have no idea how to go about killing this thing i think i think that before they even go into predation response i think they're just on curious mode i think they're just like i think me in a hammock at night again even if i've been in the jungle for days i still probably smell like a bunch of human things they can probably smell the old laundry detergent from the last time my clothes were washed they can probably smell some bug spray that i might have used they can probably smell the food that i ate yesterday they probably know things far greater than that. But when this animal comes to you, it's in the situation where that happened, I would have been a jaguar that had never seen a human before.

You know, days into the jungle where nobody goes. And so this jaguar would be encountering its first human. So it wouldn't be, if it's smart, which it is, it wouldn't be going, I'm just going to jump on it and sink my teeth into it. What if it bites back? What if it kicks back? What if it, you know? There's an unknown there. Yeah, just come over and give a sniff, whatever else.

Okay. Fucking weird. Then go tell the other jaguars and be like, yeah, you never guess what I saw. It was a floating food. It was in a hammock. Have you guys heard of tacos? I didn eat it i didn't eat it i didn't pass i passed on that one um god and you know i mean everything in the in the amazon the the amazon proper floods its banks every year and like i heard that it can flood 13 miles in either direction. So you think of forests that you can walk through flooded with 10, 15, 20 feet of water. And so every animal has to be able to swim.

Tortoises, sloths, monkeys, everybody got to swim. We saw a deer crossing the river not that long ago. Oh, no. And it was going straight for a logging camp and as this deer is motoring towards this logging camp jj's like they're gonna kill it they're gonna kill it and i was like well let's do it shirt off oh driver we know we know we start no we start going to try and get this deer so i jump in the water i'm in the water i'm swimming it's not it's not there it's not there i saw one with a deer i know my

photographic memory you with a little um there might be a photo of me hugging it down but yes i i got it i got up to it i couldn't catch it because they have these slashing sharp hooves and so um jj got in the river in the river too and then we both sort of corralled it we got it by the neck we kind of caught it like an anaconda. The boat driver is going in circles around us. And then we get this deer up onto the boat, and she kicks me in the chest. And I swear to God, I thought she was going to punch through my ribs. They're so strong.

And so I was thinking – Little baby deer. I mean, it's a deer the size of a golden retriever. Okay. But still, that wild muscle, that power that that they have if you're a jag and you get on that thing you don't get it right it could punch a hole in you punch a hole straight through your heart they have knives on their feet so how long how long ago do we know or do you know the science of the evolutionary aspect of that? Like how long ago they developed that?

Has it been, I assume, tens of thousands of years? I would go further back than that. I think the deer have been running from the wolves since, you know. So it's always been, you know, the prey animals are always just a hair faster than the predator. And then the predator's got to be smarter and got to be more and you know more endurance and it's just there's just this constant slow arms race and so you know in order for the deer to be there at all they always had to have you know incredible stealth sharp hooves you know the intelligence to outsmart a jaguar and then the jaguars had to have the power to just smack down a deer and rip it you know rip its throat out before it can kick them and injure them

because you get one kick in the jungle you get your skin opened significantly and then that's it that's over then that's it everybody's coming in for a feast and you can't sleep and then you have bot flies in your skin and then it gets infected and then you're dead and then the jungle eats you and then it turns you into a tree and then the tree looks for sunlight and then it falls over and then fungus eats it the circle of life just a giant death machine i would say like life is just this momentary instant of stasis where it's like okay can you maintain this collection of cells before you get recycled back in and then you turn into something else and then you get recycled back in and 400 generations later you come out as a frog.

God damn it. I didn't deserve this. Before you ever went to the Amazon, had you ever studied some of the ancient history of the Amazon? Or did you start looking at that after you initially came? Before I went to the Amazon, no. It was all animals. But I was also a teenager. Right.

I wasn't uh jj know a lot about that stuff is he is he like a historian too once again jj's knowledge of the amazon is shocking because um and it's just it's so it's so interesting because living out where he lives in the amazon he'll be like you know i remember when i when i first got there you know bush was in office and he he was like tell me about george bush you know it was such a it was such an honest question it was like i was like jj i don't know the guy i was like you've heard the same shit i've heard he was like no but like what do you think and he just he has this natural curiosity you know so well okay fine but you know where you're from what do the people think about

the president it's like huh you know because usually i'm like i don't want to talk about that shit and then i was like but for him i was like well i'll tell you what i know you know this is what i've heard and then we both have this like you know keep it on the dealer yeah like we're both like um but no but when you go i wonder what the uncontacted do for fire. And JJ will be like, well, you know what I heard. And you're like, what? He's like, well, I'm good friends with the guy that knows a kid that they found floating down a log on the river who used to live with the uncontacted tribe. And he says, and like, he'll go into how they make the fire.

And he'll be like, I heard from this guy, from this guy. And he'll never forget that nugget, that nugget that he got. How did they make the fire and he'll be like i heard from this guy from this guy and he'll he'll he'll never forget that nugget that nugget that how did they make the fire i have no idea no he he did he literally did that to me he was like do you know what he said he was like he was like do you want to know how they make it and i was like yes and he was like i'll tell you when they're not here because he didn't want to tell the other people that were like around and then we just never got back to it the other thing is one of his brothers now this is weird because we you can i if if i dropped you at my research station right now at our research station and and said go hike as long as you want you have 48 hours come back with a rock the size of your fist

you will not be able to accomplish there's no rocks there's no rocks it's clay um by the mouth of a stream you may be able to find pebbles like a couple of little quartz pebbles but that's it everything else is why are there no rocks again um something about geology all right that narrows it down birds um no i i i actually haven't i mean basically the amazon used to be an inland sea, right? Like when it split off from Africa, the Proto-Congo River was connected to what was the original Amazon basin, which flowed in the opposite direction. And then they split off from each other and South America hit the Nazca Plate, which sent the Andes up, which reversed the direction of the flow and then the amazon started flowing but at that time it was a inland sea gradually flowing out into the atlantic desalinizing which is why we have stingrays

dolphins manatees that have all become native to the amazon over those millions of years and then you have the jungle spring up um so in our region it's just we're at the edge of the mountains and i think we're basically on old seabed at some point. So that's also why the rainforest trees have those huge buttresses that go out, like that video where we're with Matt and that giant, giant tree. Those buttresses go out because the trees stand like chess pieces on the ground. There's no point in putting roots deep into the ground because there's no nutrients down there. The soil is sterile. The particulate, they don't go down at all like a 150

foot tree might have roots that are six feet deep yep like one thick tap root for water and then a couple of little silly things you could cut with a machete so that tree is standing there like a chest just standing there that work well that's why they have the wide base just like a chess piece i know but still that wouldn't get blown over it does the jungle relies on the jungle to protect it from getting blown over so the wind goes across the jungle so that's another thing that happens when we see deforestation is that once you make a wall in the jungle let's say you clear this well then the wind gets in there and starts smacking down the rest of the trees oh my god the jungle depends on the jungle to hold each other up it's like a rugby scrum. It's like a house of cards.

It really is. Because we've seen some really big trees go over. Wait, but that tree house is on the edge of a fucking cliff? Yes. I'm not going in that goddamn thing. No. Nope. I'll look at you up in it and wave.

Okay. Wait, where were we going? We were going somewhere. Oh, JJ's brother. Okay, so we don't really have rocks but there are stone tools left over in the jungle from another time so the uncontacted tribes in their territory this is this is this is where it gets really crazy and this is where you need someone like jj to explain what the hell is going on they found an abandoned camp of uncontacted tribes okay so you have a little palm shelter you have a little bowl you have like a few different things scattered around you can see footprints everywhere when

did they find this this was like maybe 15 years ago and there was a piece of log that they had been cutting fish or something on not fish because they don't i was just giving an example but they actually don't really fish these people they don't have fish hooks and they don't seem to because we don't have clear water either they don't shoot their arrows into the water because you can't see the fish so they just don't fish um so whatever they were doing jj's brother found a stone axe head now there are no stones and these people don't work with stones so these stones i went and did the research on this these stones are left over from let's say the incas so maybe it was the incas that came down into the jungle

reconnaissance or looking to something so maybe 700 years ago they came and they threw a stone axe head on the ground uncontacted tribes are walking around everywhere they find the stone axe head interestingly enough there are tribes that have had this happen to where they pick up the old stone artifact and they go the gods are giving us tools it's just laying on the ground it's obviously made for us and their interpretation of it is somebody left it here for us is it a possibility that that stone could have been from the conquistadors that stone arrow that wouldn't make sense right no no you can tell i mean it's

beautifully beautifully designed not not not like by western europe not by western hands no it's not a it's not the type you can you can deeply see it almost it looks like machu picchu stone actually it really looks inca it's a beautiful stone heavy stone axe you know with a little notch in it for you know where you could tie it to something or grip it and probably just use it with your hand um it's an amazing piece but again if i was to find that on the beach, I would have been like, wow, the uncontacted people made a stone axe. And like, these guys are like, no, no, no, no. They didn't do that.

And here's nine reasons why. And they understand the history. And then back to Graham Watkins is, you do see indications where humans lived, that humans lived there. So for instance- Graham Watkins. Graham Watkins? Graham Hancock? No, instance. Graham Watkins. Graham Watkins?

Graham Hancock? No, they're, wait, who the hell is Graham Watkins? I don't know. I was like, does he mean Graham Hancock? I might just be mixing people's names. Yeah. I have no idea. Might be two guys, whatever.

But no, so the thing is, you know, this is constant, seems like there's this constant debate, like, well, is there more people in the Amazon? Was there not? Yes, there was a lot of people in the amazon there's still you know 20 30 million people that live in the amazon today but what's interesting when you go around let's say we're on the river for two weeks you go through places where you could tell by the vegetation that it's completely wild primary forest there's giant kapok trees there's ironwood trees if you go really wild there's even mahogany trees still there's incredible primary climactic forest out there then you get to a confluence where there's two rivers and suddenly you'll see like a banana tree well somebody

stopped there and dropped it because bananas were engineered in Asia and came over. So obviously somebody that had some connection to the outside world at some point stopped there. And that's how that got there. So we know that. And so that's where you start to see this. The crazy thing is that these guys all know, you know, my local team, if you ask guys like Victor or JJ, who've been out, you know know 15 days past the last village by boat they'll tell you oh yeah this there's there's you can go for 15 days and it's totally wild but then there's this one spot where we do find pottery pottery pottery you're talking about pre-uncontacted

tribes you're talking about six thousand years ago eight thousand years ago i don't know i don't know how many thousands of years ago but you're talking about more than 500 years ago you're talking about like the civilizations that came before the modern era because 500 years ago how much do we know about this absolutely nothing and i feel like it's all guesswork because everything i've read is okay so there's the pleistocene overkill extinction theory that says that um the the mastodons and the giant ground sloths and the glyptodons and all those things that the the megafauna that went extinct from north america which is a huge awesome wormhole to go down um but they say down it okay well they're saying that you know if clovis man came from the bering strait and entered north america first okay and then moved

down into uh central america okay and then moved down into Central America. Okay. And then somehow got into the Amazon. And then that's the basis, that's humans getting to the Americas. They came, you know, Africa, Asia, over and down. This is what I was always taught. And then they said, well, humans were responsible, not just the changing temperatures, not just the changing temperatures not just the end of the ice age but humans were also responsible for pushing the mastodons to extinction you said but how many humans were there and if you listen to the math of you know a human clan and how many mastodons they would take down per month per year how they could just follow the herds and hunt them whenever they wanted to and they were just basically annihilate these animals how there

are still giant ground sloth burrows caves that you can walk in from these giant 13 foot tall giant ground sloths giant ground sloth burrows in brazil um but now here's the crazy part where all that was going is that the extinction dates match up with that theory so mastodons and giant ground sloths extinct in North America 15,000 years ago master master Don's and giant ground sloths extinct in Central America 10,000 years ago master giant ground sloths extinct on the islands like Haiti and and cuba 5 000 years ago and it corresponds with when humans got there because they didn't get there until 5 000 years later so it's like a pretty smoking gun type of relationship between when these animals blinked off take me that last part again

five it correlates five thousand years ago correlates why this is what i read that that as humans made their way down North America into Central America and then down to South America you start to see the species blinking out the the megafauna of the Pleistocene and so if 15 000 years ago the last ground sloth walked on North America so 15 000 years ago the last ground sloth walked on North America, then Central America soon after, maybe around 12,000 years ago. But the ground sloth didn't go extinct on the islands until 5,000 years ago, a shorter timeline. And then in Brazil, you still have – these were dug by a giant ground sloth these caves so those those the edges of that cave were carved by the hands by the claws of a massive extinct mammal

that that's terrifying yeah i mean imagine that this thing is huge 13 foot tall giant ground sloth, a huge herbivore, slow-moving, that ancient civilizations of humans wiped out. That's one of the major cryptozoology things is some people still believe that there could be populations of giant ground sloths still living in the Amazon. Underground. Underground. There could be a place where they're living underground that's like that's puts a chill up my spine can we can you just see can you go back to this just like one page back i just want to see if they have a picture of what it looks like for a giant i don't know like what a giant ground sloth

yeah like look at the yo and then the craziest yeah like look at those skeletons like the craziest thing is um the story of how the north american giant ground sloth was discovered is actually discovered by thomas jefferson because thomas jefferson used to love to assemble skeletons and at the time um he was assembling mast mammoth mastodon skeletons and he was what actually was happening so when he sent Lewis and Clark out they were tasked with finding where the mastodons were that's what oh shit I mean that was one of their mandates okay and then after actually African slaves identified and said hey some of these bones you're finding these are elephants he's like well where the hell the elephants and according to his beliefs is the christianity he believed that extinction wasn't possible so he's like oh they just must have moved

to another part of north america yeah and then as he was assembling mammoth bones he discovered the giant ground sloth and that's why the giant i believe the american north american giant ground sloth is megalonyx jeffersoni which described by president wow i don't know any of this i got this is like a whole new rabbit hole i gotta go down yeah but i mean imagine uh north america with with a whole different set of giant animals walking around on it and apparently we killed them all well you know ryan's i think like slightly friends with those guys i forget their name but he wants to get him on the podcast here i definitely want to do it with those guys who are trying to recreate the woolly mammoth right now yep i saw the eye roll right there

i saw the eye roll that camera saw it no no no there was no eye roll i don't know what you're talking about i was just i was taking a drink and i saw the light uh-huh you can you blind this is a safe space you can is it you can tell me is it safe no one's gonna hear this right what you don't you don't like the idea of recreating old species i think it's a great idea i just don't think that that's creating a species i don't know enough about it to counter that but like exactly um i i think that okay there's an article in the new york times from like 1917 where they're like flight is impossible it won't be achieved for another hundred years and of course like two years later the wright brothers nailed it whoever wrote that article was dead ass wrong but

an animal is not just a pile of cells so yes you could you could take mammoth DNA and put it back into an Asian elephant's egg and get a 98% woolly mammoth. And then in two generations or whatever, they have a whole plan to get back to woolly mammoths. But here's my question. If you remember the fact that elephants mourn their dead, if you remember the fact that you'd be creating a new hybridized species that doesn't have any peers it doesn't have any others of its kind i just it's a strange it's a strange concept to me i don't also believe them you don't believe them no i don't believe they're as close as they say they are i think it's a lot of hype i think it's a hype machine i'd love to be proved wrong i would love to see a woolly mammoth in my lifetime but this is kind of like the aliens thing it's like show me and until you can i'm not interested that's fair um the other thing is what

they should do is if they bring back the woolly mammoth then they should put them out on the where in their natural environment and let them walk around and use that to help protect siberian tigers and totally rewild some of that ecosystem and that would probably be a huge economic driver for the far east of russia where that wild space is which would be amazing it would turn it into something really positive they'll never let them give that shit to putin be like no ma'am no woolly mammoth for you so exactly so where do where do these new woolly mammoths live you know and like you know who teaches them how to be woolly mammoths not hoboken i just there's a lot of

questions i think what i'm what i'm struggling against is that i have a deep respect for the fact that um when you catch a fish that fish has been that fish is a descendant of fish that have been surviving in those rivers for millions of years it is a a story as old as the river and you're you're you know we were fishing in the amazon not that long ago we pulled up this giant paco and it flopped into the boat and it was going around and like even eating it like it was such an important thing it was like this animal is a you know you're touching this animal that that can only exist because it has been part of a lineage that was the most successful versions of this fish for millions and millions and millions and millions of years until it came to you and it's that is such a complex thing it's such a

unique thing and that goes for all these animals especially wild animals whether it's a harpy eagle whether it's a fox whether it's a snail it doesn't matter it's it's the result of an incredible amount of evolutionary work and we i just i just hear people throwing around a lot of big speak these days yeah oh this is how we're gonna live on mars okay this is how you know the woolly mammoths are gonna make your bed yeah you know can you even stop tigers from going extinct before you start trying to reanimate your new you know franken mammoths to me as someone that's spent my life on the front lines of trying to defend species and ecosystems that exist right now um we can't even do that we can't even do that so so what is this genetic experiment proving to us

you know and then the again this kind of goes back to the same thing where you're like well if the amazon was a garden that's made by humans we can just do whatever we want to it's like well if humans if just you know if animal species are just things that we can just delete and then reanimate and maybe that's the case maybe i'm wrong you know what i mean in that case great let's bring back the caspian tiger let's bring back t-rexes but but it's also here's the one caveat to that though it's also human nature yeah if you run a company a service business of some sort let's say it's like an advertising business and you get a client you get a big client you're really excited about that and we got we got don draper sitting on the wall in two different

pictures back there. And I remember in that show, when they landed a big client one time, Roger Sterling looked at him and said, the first day you have a client is the first day you're closer to losing them. There's something about once we have the fish in the boat and we have the catch, we don't appreciate what we have, but we're always looking for the new fish to get into the boat. And so I feel like the truth lies probably in the middle of where you are and where they are. And that means that, A, we do have to do a way better job at making our bed, right? And taking care of the things we have. And we shouldn't get too far ahead of ourselves worried about all these things when we can't even keep ourselves in

order. But B, we do have the technological means to do some of what they say sure that said i like that you look at it the way you do with like a grain of salt and caution because we all know what people do everyone's trying to sell a big game with shit that's why people on the internet look at stories you say for example and go that can't be true right because they're used to the shit sale right exactly but now here's the thing and this is an important distinction i do agree with you that and i heard elon musk say this is an important distinction i do agree with you that and i heard elon musk say this when they people were going after him going you know how could you spend all this money going to space when we can't even fix the environment and he went not everything is about a tragedy because some things are about that's human nature we want to celebrate

and see what we can do and land rockets and like yes some of it has to just because we can and so that's that's where i say if we can bring back woolly mammoths let's try it but then the the the other side of that is i just it doesn't interest me that much i'm way more interested in hearing that we're gonna have if you told me that we were gonna have double the population of black rhinos in 10 years i'd be like that's cool woolly mammoths that would be that would be a fuck the woolies no i love i would i mean fuck i'd love to see you 2024 fuck the woolies no no no no i'd love i would love to see a woolly mammoth man that would be cool but i wanted to i wanted to be done right i want to see it um i just there's something there's something it's just like the

way that you know people i've had so many people come up to me like oh did you hear they're bringing back woolly mammoths it's like oh did you hear like you know they traded jeter it's like bro it's not it's not even real yet like you're talking about it like it's real like it's not real yeah yet i'm open to it but yes i understand just like people you know do you want to see me lift this car it's's like, okay, Chuck, show me. I'm just, I'm such a skeptic. I just don't believe anyone. Have they found anything?

Have there been any cool archaeological findings or anthropological findings? I guess that's kind of the same thing in the Amazon recently that are maybe charting back to some of the origins of it. Well, the origins of the Amazon go back way way before we got there but africa floating in between with congo and all that i i haven't i my my radar hasn't ticked for anything new except for that um the the lidar stuff we're going to start to be able to see what's beneath the canopy because 150 feet is a lot yes picture 150 foot tall pyramid you wouldn't be able to see hold that thought by the way yeah come on back that I keep going oh yeah they're out there they're out there this will get to that this will get that lighter I'm gonna get to the pyramid in a minute LIDAR is going to allow us to see what's

the actual topography is beneath the trees and so if let's just say there's a hidden pyramid that was built on top of the last civilization of giant ground sloths and the uncontacted tribes are sitting there growing gold out of orchids and protecting the giant ground sloths and drinking ayahuasca well then lighter is going to help us find it all right well let's go right there. Because last time, the first episode we did, you left people with an enormous cliffhanger at the end, which was huge blue balls. But we were talking about Percy Fawcett, which is one of my favorite topics. You really got me into that and that whole guy's life. And we've talked about that on a bunch of other podcasts since you've been here.

So most people listening have heard that story but you mentioned on top of that that you had heard from someone else who was like a i think they if i'm remembering the context right was like a historian of faucet and the search for eldorado who told you the general area where openly they're like there's two pyramids right there and there's tribes that have never even been contacted by the uncontacted tribes we know about yeah so um could you pull up um buried pyramid or like maybe machu picchu before and after because some of these archaeological sites when they find them yeah yeah look at this archaeological sites before and after when they find them or like can you type in jungle covered pyramid before and after sorry that's really long

jungle covered pyramid before and after because these are some of the pyramids i want to say in mexico or belize this is not my area of expertise but i saw this thing the other day oh the one right there the second one down when they find when they find them they're covered with jungle back back left yep that one like is that what you're talking about yeah but see that one's been cleaned up that one's been like that's still got like that's like been made into a landing strip like there's ones where it's just jungle it's just jungle and like when so just type in machu picchu before and after this will give you an exciting idea because when they found machu picchu before and after. This will give you an exciting idea. Because when they found Machu Picchu, it really just looks like the side of a mountain.

Look at this. Look, before and after. So when Hiram Bigham went up there. That one? Yeah. That's perfect. Yep. Look at that.

Whoa. So you would never know there was an ancient city under that jungle. See if you can. Sorry. Can you go back and just find the, yeah, you go, there you go. There you go. Look at that. Look at that. So when he, when he went up there, think about looking out and just, you just see some bushes. You're like, oh, some bushes.

And then you don't even realize what's under there. How old is this? What year? A hundred and four years. Well, I don't, I don't't remember what what year um scroll that back how old is machu picchu or how old is or this was this this is machu picchu now i was just there a few months ago no but when did this emanate from like so this is how this is the inca dude and they've got much vegetation happened over this because they aren't that long ago hundreds of years a few hundred years um that's all

vegetation dude if you if you leave the jungle even right now look at what you're looking at right now with those grassy steps and the rocks if you left that for i'm gonna say two years you wouldn't be able to see a thing so their groundskeepers are working on this oh yeah oh yeah um they if i don't know but i mean this is a little bit higher in elevation than where i work like we're down in the lowlands this is up high um if you if you have like a shed let's just picture like anybody's backyard shed and you leave that you cut you know cut a little square around the shed and put the shed in the jungle you leave for two years and come back it's gone termites trees that's gone eats itself yeah and and and again

anything you level if there's jungle around it the animals will just you know the seeds and everything will just like dandelion down onto the ground and just the jungle grows up the balsa trees the cecropia trees all those pioneer species will just grow up and then as their leaves fall you get a little bit of leaf litter on the ground and sooner or later you know a bat drops an ironwood seed on the ground boom all of a sudden you got an ironwood growing you got oh and it's got sunlight too because you're in a clearing so it jumps up for 20 feet in the first year and so it's like you the jungle will take it back so quickly and that's the other thing with that's the dumb part of being a conservationist it's like if you just let tigers have some jungle with plenty of deer and don't shoot them with rolls royce machine guns they'll

be fine they've been here for millions of years if you just stop cutting down the entire amazon rainforest we'd stop talking about it yeah you know what i mean we'd just be like wow this is awesome place the amazon it's super fun to go look for archaeological it's filled with wildlife and medicine 20 of the world's oxygen yeah and 20 of the world's fresh water it's amazing place so place. So cool. Hey, you want to go surfing? It'd be such a different reality because we wouldn't be like, dude, they're ruining it. Right. But I think we'll get there.

But this is over in Machu Picchu. The ones you were talking about sounded like they were in the heart of the darkness in the middle of the Amazon. Motherfucker didn't take my delusion, my diversion. No, I did tell you that. and i did not anticipate being back here so soon i can't give you much more information i was thinking like oh in like three years after i've gone there um i don't believe you i think you've been there i'm gonna have andy give you a polygraph later oh fuck that you i'm not coming out to dinner no if i if i um what i can tell you this i i have from i mean everybody has to just chalk it up to

we all have our verifiable sources if somebody tells you you know i know a place where there's big fish okay well is this guy a or not and it's like well some of the most hardcore no joke local guys i know um not in the region i work but not too far from there in the central amazon um have uncovered the fact that there are pyramids beneath the canopy that nobody knows about. And here's the logistical problem is that you can't go explore these pyramids

because they are guarded by the uncontacted. They're guarded by them or they happen to be there? They are living there. So whether they're living on them out of, you know, oops, or they happen to be, it seems kind of a big swing of coincidence that there happened to be it seems kind of kind of a big swing of coincidence that there happen to be these amazing archaeological structures under the canopy of the amazon and the uncontacted people just happen to be living on them or have they been there for a

long time and is there a connection there are we sure they're not aliens i'm almost positive that they're aliens don't tell anybody okay okay they're secret yeah um and uh but again one thing that's funny is that people underestimate how big the amazon is like if this if this if this table was you know we're flying in a plane and this line is a river and then this line is a river in between those those two rivers, no one's been there. Yeah. No one's been there. You can reliably walk to a spot in the forest and put your foot down and go, no human has stepped here. What if the world just did like a giant invasion all at once from the air? Like just dropped every military in.

Just step every spot. Yeah, everywhere. Ha! Just like we're here. It'd be annoying. It'd be very annoying, right? That we knocked down a few trees um no but but but but what I'm saying I was that like when you look at where the archaeologists are able to go where the botanists are able to go where the you know the the wildlife biologists are

able to go a lot of them are the same sites you know a lot of people there's established research stations where people go to study tropical ecology and that's where they go and i can you know i could name them i know where they are but there's also sites where you could hire a guy with a helicopter and go seven hours that way and have them drop you down on the side of a beach and you're at the edge of a river that would take you 15 days to get to by boat and you if you made it if you made it and when you go into that jungle you walk in two three days in one direction and you're you're still 70 miles from the nearest major tributary nobody's nobody's served that nobody from our world has surveyed that maybe an uncontacted person has wandered through there at some point in history but century to century

nobody's crossing through that forest which means the species that exist there the medicines that are contained in in those plants there are things in that forest that we don't know about and there is so much of that out in the amazon and people talk about the amazon as if they can comprehend the size of it. Just like people, Oh, the ocean is this. No, you don't get to talk like that. When you're in a dinghy and there's 40 foot swells and there's thunderheads over you, then you tell me about what you think about the ocean with some respect. And when you see the Amazon and how big it is, when you, when you're in a little tiny Cessna, it's just, you know, it's like the size of a Prius and you

just have these stupid wings and it's shaking and you're flying over the jungle and you go, holy shit, if this thing goes down, it will be months before I reach civilization. And by that time, my flashlight will have worn out. I will not, even if you survive the plane crash, like your ability to do anything, it takes you right back to what I said, like go out in the rain onto a mountain and just survive one night. Do like a little one-night episode of Alone with yourself. It's nothing compared to it. And it's not even a fraction of a percent of what it's like to survive in the Amazon. And so when – it's just funny when people are like, oh, yeah, we've explored everything. It's like, really?

Oh, dude. That's the thing imagine like america we're covered in nothing but ravenous canopy jungle right and imagine you you're from new jersey which is on the far edge where there's actually let's say you're in new york city far edge where there's actually open space it's not a jungle imagine just getting dropped in any one of the flyover states we can't even navigate today in some places i was gonna say how long like you know i remember reading what was it like like george washington to get to get from philly to like new york like it took like a few weeks i don't know if it's a few weeks but it it's gotta be like gotta be like five days like come on at least a couple A couple of days. Actually, when I was coming here, I got on my maps this morning.

Like when I opened, I was like, oh shit, it's really raining out. I hit the thing. You know, it gave me the walking instructions and it was like one day and seven hours. And I was like, cool. Fuck it. I'll do it. No, but it's like, we forget. We get on a plane and it's like, you can get on a plane and it's like you can get on a plane and be in the

amazon in like you know eight hours yeah it's crazy like whereas if that then let's just say you know all planes are grounded and you had to walk back you might not see mom again like you're just gonna take your while david grand told a story in his book and i haven't read it in a while so i can't remember the exact details but he told a story in his book and i haven't read it in a while so i can't remember the exact details but he told a story in his book about a brazilian like high level i think businessman who wanted to be an explorer and find what percy fawcett was seeking to find find alderato and he went in there into the jungle i believe with a plane a few guys and one of them was like a son of his so similar to faucet by the way and they were abducted by the uncontacted tribes that's it and somehow no never seen again no oh they lived to

tell the tale somehow they like negotiated leaving some shit for them and like got help in there to negotiate directly with the head of the tribe who spoke obviously no english yeah and he got out but they were like gonna kill them and this is just you know some of these tribes you can see pictures of it online i don't know if we can pull it up chris but type in amazon uncontacted tribes don't lose that link actually what we have right there don't lose that we need that but type on a new perfect amazon uncontacted tribes love it all right images so like you see those like the second the first and second ones there so like we have some images when we go above when we've had some helicopters and planes take take shots of what appear to be tribes that are previously unrecognized in the amazon and it looks crazy and they're looking

at us like we're fucking aliens yeah but even like there's what you're saying is there's layers and layers inside of them that make that look like new era yeah there's there's a lot of um like yeah like this this picture that he that we're zooming in on now is and they're trying to shoot at the fucking point yeah what's that what'd you say that's like five foot bamboo tip spears yeah uh longer than that they're like seven foot oh that's nice they're like seven foot arrows have you had any run-in yeah that looks like a ghost right there have you had that looks terrifying have you had any run-ins with uncontacted since last time no no i think i, I think I learned my lesson. Yeah, your one boy had like it slid like edge of his head, almost killed him.

Yeah. He took an arrow to the head. But that, I didn't realize how recently, when I talked to you last time, I didn't realize how recently he got shot. Yeah. He was shot in 2019. That's not that long ago there was another one though when you you were at my parents house with ryan before you and i recorded and then you went back it was august so you went back to the amazon because it was like fire season oh yeah and there and you

were texting me from the dead bodies they didn't get through if you did but you were texting me the details from the sat phone and you were like, yeah, I want to, one of, one of the other guys, Rangers was just killed by a fucking uncontacted tribe spear the other day. I'm like,

Oh my God, like they're everywhere. Uh, well, we're, we share a border with them. So, um,

part of what is it, which is weird because jungle keepers, you know, you start out to protect rainforest and then you realize you have to help the the local people and they're you know you have loggers and gold miners and these are just you realize that these are people that just don't have an alternative so you try and help them to become rangers and so you employ them to become rangers and then we're trying to protect more and more habitat because these roads keep trying to go around the reserve and then cut in and so the more we protect the more they do the roads try and cut

in so we're trying to make this ecological corridor. But as we come towards the national park, the uncontacted tribes are there. And so some of the land that we're protecting, we have to come up with a protocol to where the rangers have to be able to handle the fact that there are uncontacted people there. So you have to patrol in a different way. We have to use drone patrol. We have to just make sure there's no deforestation we can even use up-to-date satellite imagery because you cannot have people in the vicinity well they sometimes are hiding up in the trees yeah no it's no but i mean as a you know anybody that's a ranger for us at this point has a job and medical insurance and it's it's a job they're you know they're modern people and you can't ask those people don't want you if somebody if i told you you have to

you know on your shift today you got to just drive past those people you'd be like no i'm good i don't want to be eaten you know yeah that's that's a nightmare so you think some of the something like this could be guarding those pyramids what do you you said you didn't expect to be asked about it yet but uh generally speaking are we talking like more centerish of the amazon uh i can safely say i think it's in the center of the amazon but i obviously would never go to specificity on watershed um i mean if it's true it's going to be one of, it's going to be one of the biggest discoveries of – Ever. Ever.

But greatest ancient discovery in human history potentially. Maybe bigger than Machu Picchu. But the crazy thing about their arrows is that their arrows are tipped with bamboo. And you're talking about like like a 17 inch tip but uh i was talking to a a partner organization's rangers and they were going upriver on a patrol and the uncontacted just flung a warning shot out warning shot arrow hits the side of the boat it's inch thick tropical hardwood and the arrow went straight through it into the boat and luckily the warning luckily it wasn't where anybody everybody was like down you know nobody got killed um but they said the way it just shattered the wood holy shit and then i do know one

scientist who put out camera traps in a very remote out camera traps well we use camera traps to monitor wildlife populations right so we do that all the time i have camera traps out in the jungle right now one guy got on contact the traps on those camera traps did they see the camera i haven't seen him he hasn't shown anybody but i know he has him because i know you know i know i know who saw him what did he say about him absolutely nothing because it's like it's like of all the pokemon you could get you just you just you just you know you check in you're like okay that's a you know it's a peccary i got a jaguar i got a deer and then like a giant fucking ground sloth walks by on a leash with an

uncontacted guy you're like oh shit well we're gonna need to get that guy in here and send him across from us with the videos and break them down because that that'll be guy and you're like, oh shit. Well, we're going to need to get that guy in here and send him across from us with the videos and break them down because that'll be nuts. But you're working on another book right now, no? Oh yeah. That's a full time. That is, okay. So if Mother of God is, you know, I dreamed of going to the Amazon.

I got to the Amazon, big snakes, adventures, JJ, everything great. By the end of Mother of God, we're getting into the realm of the time where we started to realize that we were seeing forest destroyed and so here i am in my like early 20s watching forest get burned to the ground standing beside this indigenous conservationist who's devoted his life to protecting the amazon and i remember saying to jj like who do we call this is unacceptable this is horrendous it's it's damaging to watch it's heartbreaking to lose who do we call to stop this from happening and he just he looked at me and he goes we're out past where the police go there's we're out past society there is no one out here he goes if we want to do anything we have to do it but at that time

the concept of us doing anything about it was so insane because you're talking about the trans amazon highway like brazil china these these massive geopolitical forces that are conspiring to take apart the amazon rainforest and so going from i like the jungle and i like snakes too how do we start forming something how do you start so this this book uh includes like that story that i was telling you about catching the the largest anaconda with the whole team like that that was post mother of god that happened after that yeah yeah you wrote mother of god years ago years ago and so um even even you know by the time i had the luck of getting to meet jane goodall and having you know i asked if she would endorse the book and she she read some chapters and she gave me an endorsement for that book but

that happened after i wrote the book and it's like that was a major event and so forming jungle keepers deciding as we're standing there on the side of a river, bare feet with machetes, we call it the barefoot machete days. We're standing there and saying, we cannot watch this forest get taken apart. We had this impossible challenge, which was how do we stop the trees from falling? How do we stop the systemic forces that are destroying this forest and it's the story of how we went from that to being the junglekeepers and protecting 50 000 acres and how basically an indigenous led conservation initiative somehow managed to go global and now we have supporters from all over the world we have you know it's just that uh I was part of it I was part of it and most of it you know everything everything goes back in

the end to jj so a large part of this book is going to be uh really delving into him and what he knows and getting that down so for example that ayahuasca story that i told you like that shaman died during covid now think about this all of his grandparents who knew all of those medicinal compounds that taught him all the ways of the forest did he teach it to his kids did he have time to teach everything to his kids before he died because if he didn't there might be a dead end we might have lost something there might have been a light that went out when he died oh that's terrifying and so there's there's a there's a thing that's happening with indigenous knowledge where you know the new generation you have this old guy who lives in the forest like jj's dad or don ignacio the shaman and these guys grew up in the forest and they lived in

the forest and you can see it in the calluses on their feet they're they're weathered old faces and they're they're old hombres de la selva then their kids are wearing air jordans and and on tick tock and there's a huge break yes and so i got to see a little bit of the old guard i got to hang out with jj's dad you know now people come you know we get people for the tree house or people come and uh we tell stories and it's like don santiago is this mythologic mythic mythical person and we have that bond that you know at least i got to meet him you know at least we got to hang out with him you're gonna write about that yeah i love it and so going from you know a bunch of dudes on the side i mean i was 18 and he was 32 and now now when i show him silly comments on

youtube you know he puts on his glasses and he's watching and he's like this is funny and like it's it's been a minute well well we gotta get jj in here as well we talked about that last time it'd be amazing to do a podcast with you guys so let's let's try to hook that up but we we do i got jim diorio blowing us up to get to emilio bolanos for this reservation so i'm not done but i know you're not done either. I want people. We're going to have to cut it off. But look, this link, Jungle Keepers, going to be down in the description below, as well as a link to Paul's Instagram and any other links. Go follow. Go give some money to Jungle Keepers.

You know exactly where it's going. It's going to this guy to do what he does. We'll have you back in when you're putting out that book within the next year or so, I guess. Hopefully. Something like that. Yeah. Next year at this time.

We'll make it a yearly tradition, man. But good luck going back down there again. You're doing amazing work, and we love supporting you here. Thank you, brother. Appreciate it. All right, dude. Everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought.

Get back to me. Peace. Thank you guys for watching the episode. Before you leave, please be sure to hit that subscribe button and smash that like button on the video. It's a huge help. And also, if you're over on Instagram, be sure to follow the show at Julian Dory Podcast or also on my personal page at Julian D. Dory.

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