Julian Dorey Podcast - 😱 [VIDEO] - Secret Pentagon Insiders Fear UFOs are Biblical Demons | Ron James • #151

Starting point is 00:00:00 What's up guys, if you're on Spotify right now, please follow the show so that you don't miss any future episodes and leave a five-star review. Thank you. to the work that he was doing, is that there was a very large contingent of people that believed that this was a demonic force, as in demons, and that we shouldn't be doing it. We shouldn't be investigating it. We shouldn't be poking the tiger in the eye. They thought the phenomenon that was being witnessed was demons? Yes. Within the military establishment, within the Pentagon, within DOD, there was a large number of people that opposed his work because they thought from a very, very fundamentalist viewpoint that we're dealing with demonic activity. Ron, you ever see aliens out in Arizona? You ever look out in the desert and just see a UFO floating right there and give

Starting point is 00:01:25 your life some meaning I'm camped out in Sedona right now right and I've lived there off and on for going on 10 years spread apart it's supposed to be one of the most relevant UFO hot spots anywhere in the world really and I still haven't seen a UFO even in Sedona and I lived for years right on the ocean overlooking Catalina Island another UFO hot spot didn't they film something there they did yeah uh Carolyn Corey did a tear in the sky where she brought in a bunch of people and they used these cameras to triangulate and they supposedly found a bunch of stuff coming up out of the water pretty compelling evidence I lived there for the longest time. I never saw anything.

Starting point is 00:02:06 I brought Ed Grimsley, the guy that used to do, he was the guy that invented the idea of using night vision goggles to find UFOs. I brought him there with another guy, the UFO summoner, that supposedly could call UFOs. No, this guy was for real. Are we sure? Yeah, he would, well,, this guy was for real. He would... Are we sure? Yeah, he would...

Starting point is 00:02:26 Well, I don't mean for real like that. This guy, what was his name? I can't remember. But he calls himself the UFO summoner. And he would go to parks in downtown LA on the weekend and he would gather crowds and they would all summon UFOs. And you'd see these UFOs flying through the skies of downtown Los Angeles. And he'd have these pictures in his little picture book. And he would say,

Starting point is 00:02:51 yeah, these are all UFOs. And I'm like, well, it's a Sunday morning in downtown Los Angeles, and these look an awful lot like birthday balloons. In fact, that one looks like a 14. And he'd say, well, they don't want you to know they're UFOs. And I'm like, okay, this is a real conversation. I'm like, okay, please explain this to me. You're saying that they're UFOs, but they look like mylar balloons because they don't want us to know they're UFOs, but they want us to know they're here. And when you call them, they're coming. And he's like, yeah.

Starting point is 00:03:24 I'm like well that doesn't make any sense yeah that's the contradiction right there so i've actually had some of these people on my properties in in on uh overlooking the ocean the reason i'm using two hands is because one time i had one in laguna beach and another time i had one right on the ocean uh in san pedro and both times we did all kinds of experiments trying to get ufos and photograph them and i did not have any luck at all have you ever i mean we've heard certain patterns with ufos over time one of my favorite topics to just like think about is the whole like nuclear part of it and going over nuclear bases that's very interesting and very compelling around the world when you

Starting point is 00:04:02 look at those reported sightings not just here but in russia and other countries but when it's not something like that and it's things like the desert or certain parts of the world do you ever like do you ever find yourself putting together exactly why they may go to certain places well you know you think about it a certain amount of time that certainly there's a reason that you could ascertain for why they're interested in nuclear sites. The Randallstrom Forest thing even was supposedly, it's still classified, but supposedly there was nuclear weapons on that base. And then you have the stuff with Robert Salas and Faded Giant, which was a real thing. And then, of course, Roswell was supposedly, that was the army airfield where the Enola Gay was headquartered. So that's where the first nuclear bombs were actually launched and

Starting point is 00:04:51 deployed. So there's, and it makes some sense that they'd be interested in our weapons, but then, you know, why they show up at other places, there's... There are very few things that you can be certain of in life, but you can always be sure the sun will rise each morning. You can bet your bottom dollar that you'll always need air to breathe and water to drink. And, of course, you can rest assured that with Public Mobile's 5G subscription phone plans, you'll pay the same thing every month. With all of the mysteries that life has to offer, a few certainties can really go a long way. Subscribe today for the peace of mind you've been searching for.

Starting point is 00:05:26 Public Mobile. Different is calling. Meet Tim's new Oreo Mocha Ice Caps with Oreo in every sip. Perfect for listening to the A-side. Or B-side. Or Bull-side. Order yours on the Tim's app today at participating restaurants in Canada for a limited time. No real way to have a consistent kind of theory as to why that happens, because for one thing,

Starting point is 00:05:56 there could be things going on with the earth that we don't know. So, you know, we know about things like ley lines that we know about that are theoretical. We know about energetic power grids, theoretical, but they could be real. And there could be reasons in different spots on the earth where these places interact, where there's walls of dimensions that are thinner that we just don't even know about. Walls of dimensions that are thinner. Well, think about this. Okay. Okay. I'm thinking. There's an energetic fabric that basically is matter.

Starting point is 00:06:23 It's all basically energy vibrating at a certain frequency to give us the illusion of matter. There's theories of multiple dimensions. It stands to reason when people talk about portals, well, what does that even mean? What's a portal, right? Do they talk about it at Skinwalker Ranch? You see scientists talk about it.

Starting point is 00:06:39 You see people that don't even know anything about any kind of science talking about there being portals. Well, what is that? That is a place, theoretically, where you're going to see energy that divides different realms be thinner. And so there's – that could be going on. We don't know about it. We don't have the science to prove it yet. But there could be a lot of reasons why you see quote unquote UFO hotspots where the reason they're hotspots is not apparent to us. That's my issue with the entire phenomenon in and of itself. We don't know how these civilizations would think.

Starting point is 00:07:17 Something as simple as the Wawa down the street could be the thing for some reason that has their holy grail that they want to look for. And we'd never know why you know because they're they're like obviously you know dr kaku and some of the things he talks about with these different types of civilizations type zero one two three sure to get all the way to a three which he said would take i want to say that one was like another hundred thousand years for us it's a it's i think it's even longer than that. So either way, think about the power of human ingenuity across 8, 10, 12, 15 billion people as the population grows just to be able to get there and how much more they would know. We could not – we'd have trouble having a conversation with people from 150 years ago. What do you think we'd do with people when it's a hundred thousand years from now or something you know so that's the one part where i'm like how can we really even concept it like the nuclear bombs one that makes a ton of sense but the other things like we're just kind of

Starting point is 00:08:16 guessing no we're guessing in a lot of ways and you know you you brought something up that would be really kind of a big let the air out of the tire kind of moment. We have this perception of self-importance. Like maybe the aliens are coming here because they have some interest in us. Or maybe they're coming here because they want to nurture us into a galactic family. Or maybe they're coming here because we're some kind of experiment. But to find out in the long run that some alien was able to see into the future and realize that there was going to be a Wahoo and they're only coming here for the sandwiches, that some alien was able to see into the future and realize that there was going to be

Starting point is 00:08:45 a wahoo and they're only coming here for the sandwiches that would suck yeah i the the thing about the whole interest argument though like you and i were talking shortly before we got on cam joking about neil degrasse tyson and like what he said about that where he's like oh they wouldn't have any interest in us i mean i guess technically like you can't prove for a fact that he's wrong but i don't i don't agree that we wouldn't be interesting and this is where it can it can kind of finger off into a lot of different rivers of possibilities here like if if we looked at our planet and were able to figure out for example strona's out there that like oh we're a simulation well then if we're a simulation the whole point of it is to be interested in us right you know

Starting point is 00:09:31 things like i mean that means it's like they created the sims and we're the sims you know yeah you know the difference between living in a simulated reality and us actually being sims is that there are outside forces that control the sim. You know, like us with our computers, we're just manipulating them like puppets. And so even though I'm kind of a subscriber to the idea that this is some kind of a simulation, I'm not sure that we're manipulated puppets. But we might be, and we don't know. You know, the whole thing about AI, like in movies like Blade Runner and what we're seeing with emerging AI is that we have these

Starting point is 00:10:05 artificially created beings, real or from fiction, that don't know they're artificially created. And more and more, that seems like it's coming out where you can create what we would call an artificial intelligence, but that doesn't mean that it is going to perceive itself as artificial. It will think that it's alive. So maybe if artificial it will think that it's alive you know and so maybe if we are artificial thinking that we're alive it all boils down to why what's the purpose sure we could be in a simulation sure there could be aliens sure all of this could be something that we don't even understand but there's got to be a reason for it and ultimately that's the ultimate answer is what is the reason for all of this whatever it is

Starting point is 00:10:46 well that's the that's the elusive question that we'll be lucky if we ever get to point zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero one percent of it it's like you know that i'm i'm obsessed with the idea of einstein thinking he could find the theory of everything i think it was such a noble thing as well and obviously genius scientists contributed a ton to the world. But like if you could actually like read the mind of God like that, whatever it or that is, think about like we can't even concept the numbers of dimensions it would take to even get there. We may not even have a concept of what that number is.

Starting point is 00:11:24 Like we say trillion and we think that's like an insane number that could be like point zero zero zero one of what it really is because numbers are infinite you know like this is the stuff that keeps me up at night not even like when i'm high or some shit i'm just like me too and you know it's true that um that you know einstein was after the theory of everything right i mean you know he died with paperwork and formulas on his desk and the theory of everything right I mean you know he died with paperwork and formulas on his desk and the theory of everything as it relates to physics is as you know is basically let's come up with a mathematical formula that explains how reality works that you know how the physical universe works how the laws of physics works how everything clicks and the reason they

Starting point is 00:11:59 can't find one that's cohesive and that this is my opinion but, but I've done a lot of research on this. I'm not a scientist. You know, I think one of the last people you had here was Cocker. So I don't want to sit in Dr. Cocker's chair and act like I know anything about physics. But it has been proven that physics cheats. If a feat needs to be accomplished that does not fit within the laws of physics, it has ways of sidestepping the laws of physics to accomplish a task in the real world and i could tell you an example of that yeah actually i thought i knew what you were saying and now i'm hearing that maybe i don't please give an example

Starting point is 00:12:36 okay so there's this thing called quantum photosynthesis yes okay this is a scientifically proven thing for years scientists couldn't figure out why a plant was able to find the most efficient route for that photon to get to the root where it's turned into energy that grows the plant. Out of all the ways that a photon could pass through this plant, it always, if you tracked the photon, would find the most efficient route through the plant. What they came to discover is that this plant was collapsing into a quantum state where it sent the photon on all possible routes through the plant, then collapsed back into the physical reality and took the most logical route. So basically what it's doing is it's sidestepping the laws of

Starting point is 00:13:20 physics, going into a quantum state outside the laws of physics to determine its best possible way of executing the task within physical reality so what that's proving to us is that is that stuff can cheat so it's impossible to find a theory of everything because the theory of everything has to be this is how it works 100 of the time we can prove it with algorithms but if if the very way that reality works enables it to do things outside of any rules then you can't come up with a theory of everything because you can never estimate the extent to which it can break its own rules and quantum photosynthesis shows us that that it's possible and that it's probably happening this might be a really dumb take

Starting point is 00:14:02 what i'm about to say but i'm just trying to synthesize all this no pun intended if everything is infinite including shrinkage meaning like we have string theory that says it's like the smallest form of matter we've ever discovered but we still have to test it well below the strings there has to be something below that microscopic to the microscopic right if if you catch my drift so when you're talking about the theory of everything it's only based off of things that we've at least concepted before when even like quantum itself like the like the photosynthesis gets tossed around a lot but not that many people really understand exactly and like i don't even pretend to have a full understanding at all and

Starting point is 00:14:40 i've talked with people like dr kaku for sure it shirts on it's like do you believe in God well I believe in the God of Einstein he believed in God but not the God that intervenes in human affairs it was the God of order the God of simplicity and elegance Einstein was asked the question did the universe have a choice is it unique so universes you can create universes in an afternoon, but most of them are unstable. Most of them fall apart. Most of them don't work. Our universe is stable. It works. Everything fits together. And then the question is, what set off the bang? That's what we do for a living. We have the Big Bang Theory up to the point where the universe is going to explode. Why did it explode? we think it was a

Starting point is 00:15:25 quantum event and we are here because we are in the universe which decided to explode so einstein said was it all an accident and he thought no it could not have been an accident to me i still i'm up at night i'm like i still don't really like i get it at the atomic level, but like all this shit. But on the photosynthesis thing, it's like if that process is happening and the way that it – I'm saying this in really layman's terms. But the way that it spreads around so quickly to be able to process it through the entire plant exists, and it definitely does, at something way smaller at the microscopic level that we've never even concepted before then we don't have anywhere close to the information just the way i'm reading it as a layman to be able to say what everything is if we can't even measure the things that make up the everything exactly it's a and as uh like one of my friends john alexander said um we're not at the stage where we're asking the right questions yet.

Starting point is 00:16:26 And so what I'm saying- Colonel. But what I'm saying is that in order to have a theory of everything that explains how physics works, how the universe works, how it came into existence, we have to know a lot more than we know. And that's why this has been so elusive. It's like E equals MC squared. This little four five um line formula was supposed to explain everything but it doesn't and people's scientists our best scientists are

Starting point is 00:16:52 trying to come up with this thing this simple mathematical algorithm that explains everything and i don't think that it's possible because you can't take randomness into effect when you're trying to come up with a definitive formula now i, I could bite that off for a while. We could go right down that rabbit hole. But for people listening right now who haven't heard of you before or know what you've done- No, that's a heck of a way to start a conversation. Yeah, that was a great opener. I mean, I will not do that in a bar. It's like, hey, babe, got a minute to talk about the theory of everything. This is my number, though. It's not a formula.

Starting point is 00:17:24 No, you just got to direct them to your documentary but you you recently came out with a great film highly informational called accidental truth and how long did you work on this this was this had to be like five six years right well the film itself took me about a year and a half to edit yes um and some of the interviews that came out in it weren't even shot before I actually started the film, but the actual Material some of it goes back to 2007 when I first interviewed some of these people Oh some of it goes all the way back to 2007 Yeah, like I you know

Starting point is 00:17:55 I've interviewed Nick Pope like three or four times and the first one was in I think 2008 and for people out there Who is he Nick Pope is a former british ministry of defense ufo desk guy when i was growing up he used to write a column for ufo magazine and i was like wow here's this government guy being you know talking to the community and i thought that was pretty cool and um yeah and so you know here we are all the years later so you obviously had an interest in this for a long time but in your doc which i'll put the link in the description for everyone to go buy it and check it out i definitely recommend it but in your doc you went at it from all different types of angles i like this it reminded me as far as like the

Starting point is 00:18:38 number of angles it was reminiscent of the phenomenon which our mutual friend james fox did oh yeah it almost seems like they're watching us like a god a little bit if this is the case to make sure we don't destroy ourselves so i interviewed a number of eyewitnesses regarding that aspect of the phenomenon and that is particularly during the cold war the height of the cold war they are witnessed in russia and all scattered across the united states and this launch control officer robert salas i'll never forget this he said well james the message i got when they shut our nukes off it's almost like they were taking

Starting point is 00:19:15 matches out of the hands of a baby but i'm fascinated at the fact that there are now so many of these people who are talking be it the lou Lou Elizondos, the Chris Mellons, some of the colonels and generals you've spoken to, who have kind of come out in recent years and started to talk about the phenomenon. And my little red light sensor goes up right away and goes, aha, what's the agenda here? But when you're going into this and making the documentary, are you suspicious of that at all? Or do you trust the information you're going to be getting from them because you're sitting right across from them and you feel like you can get a read for it? You know, that's interesting because at the very beginning of the documentary,

Starting point is 00:19:57 the only time you really see or hear much of me is because Matthew Modine narrates it, which is great. But at the very beginning, I say something like, I'm sitting in these rooms alone with people that have run secret weapons programs, interrogated terrorists, protected closely guarded secrets for a living. And all I can think about is getting them

Starting point is 00:20:14 to tell me something they don't want me to know. And at the end of the day, that's pretty much every interview that I walked into where I knew that I was dealing with somebody like that, that was in the back of my mind And I would ask questions designed to try to get some kind of information out of them That was beyond what they're actually willing to say with their words guys The Julian Dory podcast fashion collection is officially live. So hit that link in the description below

Starting point is 00:20:40 Go get your gear just like this and show off your favorite show to all your friends let's get it and that's what accidental truth is about um i successfully did that with with alessandro i did it with christopher mellon um can you can you explain to people who don't know a lot of people listening absolutely will know but for those who aren't as familiar with ufology and things who is lou alessandro so lou alessandro is the in 2017 the new york times broke that story about the navy studying ufos and that was a guy named ralph blumenthal uh leslie keen and there was another i can't remember her name there's another writer that helped break that story um and i apologize to her for not getting it but um the uh that was a story that came out and said yes the military has been studying ufos since 2004 or slightly before

Starting point is 00:21:27 that and we've been seeing things that we can't describe and lou alessandro came out as a guy who was actually running that program which is called a tip they called it a tip there's a lot of controversy around that but my investigations are have revealed that it's pretty much what he says is is true as far as this pipeline of info but lou alessandro ran that program and came out on 60 minutes saying we might not be alone and that was the first time fed yeah exactly serving the agenda but you know now the agenda is to admit that we might not be alone i love i love when he like pauses and he's like if i say something else i may say something i'm not allowed to say yeah okay all right we get it well yeah i mean but you know the thing is is that

Starting point is 00:22:15 i think that there's there's three layers to all this the first layer is that there are people and they're very few and far between who have the big picture as far as what's happening with humankind's interaction with non-human intelligence. And those guys have been in the shadows since the 40s and even probably further back than that. Now, those guys, we're probably never going to know who they are. And with generational stuff, with lack of institutional memory, they may not even know who they were originally. A lot of this information, people think, is in some big vault somewhere. And my investigations have revealed that these guys have no problem destroying evidence and that there could very well, at this point in time,

Starting point is 00:22:54 not be anybody that is in possession of the cohesive story and the evidence chain going all the way back to the 40s. What do you mean? Can you expand upon that? Yeah, which part? Like, so you're saying that like the government like i have a hard time believing that with even the biggest secrets of mankind that maybe multiple governments are working on i have a hard time believing that any evidence would be completely destroyed well we found we found plenty of evidence that that's the case. But is it tertiary evidence to something that they don't destroy the evidence for,

Starting point is 00:23:33 that therefore is actually the center of it, and they just kind of destroy a few documents that might get people on the right path? Well, it's more like, you know, at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark when they go and there's this big warehouse where everything's stored? Yes. Okay, there might be a warehouse like that where, quote, unquote, everything is stored. But there might not be very many people who know exactly where it is and what's in it. Well, that's the other thing. How do they even decide for something? Like if we're talking about the nature of being joined in our universe, could be like the greatest National Security risk ever right potentially how do you even decide who's a need to know like doesn't that change even like

Starting point is 00:24:12 it doesn't mean like every CIA director like yeah we'll tell this one there might be somewhere they're like no like we're not telling and who decides well we have evidence that that happened and and you know the presidents at some point quit being read in supposedly right after ronald reagan you know bill clinton couldn't get to the information obama tried not as hard but he couldn't get to the information trump couldn't get to the information but reagan was pretty much read in and and and the bushes are supposedly some of the people that shepherded that transition from what body politic are we going to inform and not inform how do we know that by the way there's a lot of um historical references to bush and ufos and historical references to you know bush and um bush and cheney and uh and rumsfeld you know these guys were like the the

Starting point is 00:25:01 suspicious movers and shakers in washington before we had suspicious movers and shakers in washington before we had suspicious movers and shakers in washington these guys were pulling stuff back in the day that that now would be like oh my god that's a scandal and we'd be surprised but don't be surprised these guys were playing these guys had dc wired and government wired for all kinds of stuff way before we even knew that there was these kind of games being played and And Bush, he's the head of the CIA, he will say, well, he's gone now, but he would say, yeah, I know about this stuff, but I'm never going to talk about it. And this is what I mean. One of the things we point out in Accidental Truth is that there is a history of exactly what we're being told today being told to us

Starting point is 00:25:47 in the 50s almost verbatim it's like they couldn't even afford a new screenwriter we have the the head of the air force coming out and saying yes we're witnessing these craft and they're not ours and then in the film we flash forward to luis ando yes we're witnessing these craft and they're not ours we're committed to getting to the bottom of it they said in the 50s then at the senate hearings on ufos they're committed to getting to the bottom of it then back to the 50s general sanford saying um that they're going to uh start a massive investigation and that they're going to identify whether or not it's a threat. Then fast forward to the Senate hearing where the Moultrie, the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, says, yes, we're committed to getting to the bottom of it.

Starting point is 00:26:35 And this is a 70-year difference. Okay, so the idea that at one point there was a group like MJ-12, maybe, a group like it, if not that group. MJ-12? I don't think I'm familiar with that. So the story is back in the 40s, Eisenhower put together a group, and they called it Majestic 12. And the names of these people are historically documented, and there's supposedly these papers that came out describing that they were tasked with taking the whole UFO thing and managing the information and sequestering it away and making sure...

Starting point is 00:27:13 Managing. Managing. Which involved burying it to the point where nobody was accountable. So they created this whole organization. Now, people will debate the existence of MJ-12. It's a hotly debated subject. The papers that came out are people still to this day debate their authenticity. But it makes sense that if you're the government in the 40s and 50s, and you've got evidence of something that you don't understand that's crashed, you're going to put together at the highest level a group of

Starting point is 00:27:43 scientists and military people and intelligence people to look at this and manage it and decide how to disperse it to the public if at all so if there wasn't an mj12 a simple thought experiment would lead you to the point where there must have been somebody because you don't have a a craft of unknown origins crash in the desert and then you just don't look into it. Yeah, and it has to be – like my thought I think is in line with most people's thoughts. It has to be something like an amalgamation. It has to be something separate. It's not like, oh, the CIA is on this or like, oh, the NSA is on this. There has to – I'm not saying that there aren't people in those organizations who are like read in and a part of it in fact I'll bet that literally is

Starting point is 00:28:27 the case that's pretty much describing what I've been able to find out right so it has to be some sort of like group of individuals that are decide to be that are clear to be read in on this and work in tandem together secretly and you know covering up secrets like this that's something that's really hard for me to concept because well here's what i can't imagine having that information so you got roswell the roswell daily record spills the story general ramey they're flying saucers then the next day oh it was a weather balloon okay there was there was a group that was responsible for that about face and and was and was responsible for that whole story changing and being buried and all whatever was found at roswell whether it was alien or whatever

Starting point is 00:29:15 we never saw it the weather balloon is pretty much debunked completely so an organization formed to do that the first thing they've they've decided, well, we can't go public with this. So we've got to keep it a secret. So now these guys have free reign in the early days of government to do whatever. They're accountable to nobody except the president. And their job is figure out what to do with this information, figure out what to do with the stuff we've recovered. And their decision was we can't tell the public for any number of reasons. And now we got to look into this technology.

Starting point is 00:29:48 And so it didn't go to the front facing military. It didn't go to the halls of Congress, although a lot of people say some of it ended up in the basement, maybe. It went into top secret rooms where they had conversations about, you know, hey, we found this. Can you look into what that might be? You know, and it could be everything from an attack craft to a piece of technology to a piece of metal to a piece of materials, any of those things. So over time, with zero accountability,

Starting point is 00:30:15 lots of black budget money, and compartmentalization where very few people knew the whole picture. So you could be a colonel. Let's say somebody's sitting on top of this whole thing, and they know the entire story. They're the ones that put this group together. How many of those people are there? Not many. No. Three or four. You're called into these guys' office, and you're handed a piece of something, and you're told to take it to Lockheed Martin.

Starting point is 00:30:42 So you take it to Lockheed Martin. Now, how many people in that chain? Wendy's most important deal of the day has a fresh lineup. Pick any two breakfast items for $4. New four-piece French toast sticks, bacon or sausage wrap, biscuit or English muffin sandwiches, small hot coffee, and more. Limited time only at participating Wendy's Taxes Extra. The new BMO VI Porter MasterCard is your ticket to more.

Starting point is 00:31:05 More perks. More points. More flights. More of all the things you want in a travel rewards card. And then some. Get your ticket to more with the new BMO VI Porter MasterCard and get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months. Terms and conditions apply.

Starting point is 00:31:26 Visit bmo.com slash viporter to learn more. Know anything about where this stuff came from that is provable. Nobody. Now, you fast forward 50 years when these guys are all gone, and all that remains is the remnants of these programs and legends about where this stuff came from. Is there some kind of repository where all these records are kept maybe but who knows where it is see i don't know where the line gets drawn that's the other problem here like where is it

Starting point is 00:31:59 where where did do these individuals whoever they are are, figure out that, hey, anything at any point even in the future, like let's say they're saying even 300 years from now or something like that, anything past this line we can never talk about. What makes them decide that? To me, this is just where my head goes, not to go like too far with it it but it means they're here and they've been here and it's the kind of thing where if we actually had the information shared with the public people would ride in the streets or kill themselves or whatever they're gonna do because it's it's it means it's like the end times are here that's the only thing i can come up with that makes sense and then when you start to think that you're like well am i a crazy person too i don't think so but other people could say that you know well the idea that that there's been some kind of presence

Starting point is 00:32:51 of a non-human or even alternative human species here on the planet that we don't know about that's that's pretty much not hard to dismiss that they've been here through all of recorded history in accidental truth we have a guy that has come forward in the film for the first time ever admitting that he was running 30 and 40 years ago, a secret government program studying this stuff. Who was this guy? Alexander in the film. And, and he talks about how that these things have been with us for all of recorded history and that flying saucers are absolutely real.

Starting point is 00:33:23 And that our sensors picked them up from time to time up to a mile wide he said that he's seen i think i had him mixed up who was the guy who was because you and i talked about this last night who was the guy who was basically just a middleman though well i think that i think that was alexander i think that there was a in in the time when when he came in and colon and Colonel John Alexander, for people who don't know, he was involved in a lot of esoteric government programs. They studied life after death. They studied nonlethal weapons technology, mind control. He was supposedly involved in – what was that program that they did where they were doing mind control experiments on people? MKUltra.

Starting point is 00:34:03 Yeah, he was involved in MKUltra. He was the the guy he was like the subject of men who stare at goats yeah they made that movie and he was the kevin spacey's character supposedly was after him and he was also fictionalized in a book called out there by it by a new york times writer um but at any rate alexander's military record what we do know and can prove, this guy was ultimately, if there was ever a guy that could tell you that he'd have to kill you, it might have been John. And for years he would say that, you know, there's no government program studying UFOs. In recent time, he's come out and said, well, that's not exactly true. There was, and I was actually running one of them. And we've been able to find this evidence but he will tell you and he does in the movie maybe for the first time

Starting point is 00:34:49 ever that we've been studying these things for a long time and the stuff that that lou alessandro's group found and he he says this too in the film they were they were studying crafting the exact same thing 30 40 years ago and it's the same group that has surfaced through TTSA, the Howl Putoffs, the people like that that came up through Tom DeLonge's organization in 2017. These are the same guys that have been involved in these programs going all the way back 30, 40 years. Is that called To the Stars?

Starting point is 00:35:20 To the Stars Academy of Arts and Sciences. But back to the original question as to how this stuff could get sequestered. After a while, nobody knows the whole story. The classified documents have been either filed away where nobody knows where they're at or destroyed. The reason that the information is not getting out. If you give something, say just a military officer went to Lockheed Martin with material that is non-earthly or of unknown origin and said, you know, see what this is, what you can do with it. Well, Lockheed goes, oh, wow, you know, this stuff causes, if you bend it just right, you can have invisibility. Or if you do this with it, you can defy radar. Or, you know, look at this stuff. You can crinkle it up and it folds back out to its original shape. Let's figure that out.

Starting point is 00:36:11 Well, now all of a sudden you've got something that a corporation is in possession of that becomes a trade secret that they are not going to share with anybody. And so there's a lot of reason to believe that a whole bunch of stuff ended up in that category. And it's free from Freedom of Information Act requests. It's free from the prying eyes of the public. But the government, they don't care about that, right? Well, you know, it's kind of like a government-industry partnership. Yeah, but like the... See, no longer is the government accountable for this.

Starting point is 00:36:44 Once it goes into the private corporation it goes from a classified program into a corporation there's no freedom of information act accountability there's nothing okay and so now this has been the the whole stuff about crash debris retrievals and analysis and back engineering research that is all in compartments and stovepipes throughout a huge amount of companies that are accountable not to the public at all and the fact that these programs even exist has been covered up at the deepest levels because these guys that started all this within government were accountable to nobody in the very beginning and over time they've

Starting point is 00:37:21 been given so much money and so much black budget money and so much lack of accountability that we have no idea what's going on. And the idea that there's somebody sitting on top of all this right now that knows everything about everything UFO related in some secret office in the basement of the Pentagon, I used to think that that was probably true. And now I'm not so sure. Why aren't you sure? There was rumors of something called the Blue Room at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. Oh, yes. Please explain this. So supposedly the Blue Room was this room down in the basement in one of these hangars where they stored all the stuff like from Roswell and alien technology and even bodies. And it was rumored to be a thing for a long time.

Starting point is 00:38:04 Where is that base, Wright-Patterson, it's called? Yeah, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. It's basically pretty much acknowledged as being the place where a lot of this stuff ended up. But through a variety of evidence and stories and documents and everything else. Barry Goldwater, the the senator tried to investigate this and he called Curtis LeMay who ran Wright Patterson at the time and asked him about the blue room and got chewed out and said never never asked me about this again so a lot of people were like okay well we want to find this film from the blue room so there was a huge if years ago it's been it's been like 20 years since this happened but but it did happen and it's documented the extensive freedom of information act requests about the

Starting point is 00:38:51 blue room in the film the existence of this film was denied across the board but finally somebody asked the right questions and got it to the right department within the Air Force who returned a Freedom of Information Act request that documented that there was a film of the Blue Room at Wright-Patterson base with a project number, a media number assigned to it that was actually shot of the Blue Room at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and was destroyed. Now if that film was truly destroyed, that's an example of the fact that these guys have no problem just absolutely destroying evidence. If it was supposedly destroyed and it's sitting in a room somewhere and it was never destroyed, that's a different story. But there seems to be a propensity and a willingness by the government and the military.

Starting point is 00:39:39 There's plenty of public records of the military going into a place where something happened and just destroying the evidence and if they've destroyed if they've destroyed the evidence of these craft and in these interactions i used to think that that would that's impossible they couldn't have done that who would do that but i kind of like well you know maybe they maybe they have in some cases yeah i sometimes i wonder if it's like they're burning the test files saying oh look at us burning all this shit I guess it's all gone yeah and it's really somewhere else like it fascinates me I hope that's the case I really do I do too but it's still like a little sinister you know it's very sinister this whole thing is sinister I mean it's like it's it's the when I first got into doing stuff in the UFO field it was because I was hired to video – because I own a production company.

Starting point is 00:40:28 I was hired to go in and shoot and live stream a UFO conference back in 2007. Oh, that's how you got into it. That's how I got into the UFO thing. No shit. Legitimately, yeah. I mean, I've always had an interest. Okay. So this is something you had at least thought about.

Starting point is 00:40:42 Yeah. I read the magazines. I watched the shows. Eric Von Donikin's epic Ancient Astronauts, you know, that was the movie that broke the ice for everything. It's still to this day one of the best-selling books of all time and one of the biggest movies, but Chariots of the Gods. But, yeah, I got hired to do this thing,

Starting point is 00:41:02 and I started watching these people parading around it's where i interviewed edgar mitchell for the first time that's where i interviewed john alexander for the first time nick pope for the first time this is around 20 2007. and i just i got the bug i'm like wait a minute this is the biggest falsehood the biggest deception being perpetrated on humanity ever and you know as a journalist and as a video person and somebody that likes to dig for answers I was hooked and I've been investigating this for years ever since and I've been interviewing people I have drawers of hard drives probably well over 150 hard drives I'm gonna tell you I'm gonna cut you off right there I'm gonna tell you the same thing I told

Starting point is 00:41:44 James Fox and I'm working on him about this all the time but for you guys who have been doing this for a while and have sat on camera with all these brilliant people for so many years again you make a documentary you got to cut it to 90 to 120 minutes something like that all this stuff stays on the cutting floor and And you guys got to do the PBS frontline treatment where when they do these docs, they then have a separate channel where they post the raw interviews with all the people. You guys got to do that. Well, I've done that. Because the goal you got to have in there is crazy. So when I made the – I made something called the Disclosure Dialogues back in 2010.

Starting point is 00:42:21 And it won all the awards at the time. It was basically – there basically there was dialogues on disclosure with a feature movie called it could happen tomorrow and then the it was a five disc set and the other five discs on the set of the set the other four discs were all the full-length interviews with the people all right we need this from everything you've done since then we got to make a youtube channel strictly for it well there's accidental truth the new documentary that has literally 40 hours of interviews behind what is ultimately a nine minute film so there's the the website um inside of mufon television uh called at insider accidental truth insider where all of that stuff is being published so like congressman tim birchett

Starting point is 00:43:04 is an accidental truth saying some really cool stuff but there's an inter the interview with Cider, where all of that stuff is being published. So like Congressman Tim Burchett is in Accidental Truth saying some really cool stuff. But the interview with him was over an hour, and I went to his office and I set up multiple cameras. Something that nobody's seen yet, because I haven't put it out, is me sitting in his office for the first part of the interview, lining him out on everything we know from the Roswell incident all the way up until now. I'm sitting in a sitting congressperson's office with multiple cameras telling him the whole UFO story. Nobody's ever done that. And so that's going to be one of the behind-the-scenes things that people can access.

Starting point is 00:43:38 What was his involvement again? Like what committee is he on? You know, what happened with Tim, he's always been kind of into the topic. You know, there's a lot of people in government, we think that we have some kind of separation from them, but they're people just like us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's always been interested in that. He's not that high. He's a congressman. Well, I mean, yeah, and he's a house—he's a representative, which is, you know, he'll tell you in his office, he's like, yeah, I'm low man on a totem pole.

Starting point is 00:44:01 Right. But he's a really good guy, down to earth. He's like a big God guy too, right? Yeah, yeah. But he's a really good guy, down to earth. He's like a big God guy too, right? Yeah, yeah. But he's an alien. He's very religious. Yeah, you know, one of the talks that we had, my conversation with Tim Burchett, was that, you know, he's one of those Christian fundamentalists who does not believe that the idea of life in outer space and even aliens visiting the Earth interferes with their belief system. A lot of them do believe that and will staunchly deny it for that sake, but Tim's pretty open-minded about that.

Starting point is 00:44:32 But what happened is one day he was just crossing the street and he got hit up by TMZ, and the UFO things were big in the news, and Tim made a comment like, yeah, it's just a big cover-up more people believe in aliens and believe in Congress and he walked off and all of a sudden that was it for Tim he was now the UFO Congress guy and so if you go to his website you could buy the t-shirt you know it's pretty funny but um that's how that it was totally just happen chance wow the happenstance that he got uh kind of thrust into the mainstream talking about this stuff but he understands and and i've talked to three months ago i had lunch with andre carson the senator the the representative that ran that hearing and i'll tell you a little bit more about

Starting point is 00:45:17 that later how'd you get hooked up with him well i work with mufon the mutual ufo network we're the oldest and largest organization studying the topic. We have lobbyists in Washington, D.C. MUFON. Yeah. What a lot of people don't know is that we've been behind the scenes in D.C., including some work by Dave McDonald, the director, Jessica Taco, who owns the lobbying firm, A10 and Associates, that work for us. We've been in D.C. for about two years now, softening everybody up over this disclosure thing. And while there's a lot of people out

Starting point is 00:45:50 there talking about it, like, oh, yes, I've been in Washington, D.C. doing this, this, and this, we've been there, and we have the proof of it. The hearing that they did with Andre Carson and Mike Gillibrand, or I'm sorry'm sorry mike gallagher we were instrumental in getting those hearings done we're the ones who talked andre carson into having those hearings in the first place that was us and so the reason i was having lunch with andre carson is because i was introduced to him by the lobbying firm and a bunch of people from mufon went up to dc and we met with a lot of sitting congressmen. And so I actually sat down with Andre, sat right next to him for over an hour, and I laid it out for him too.

Starting point is 00:46:33 And I told him about the movie because he's in the movie. And he's basically portrayed as one of those people who's towing the line for the new story. Yes. And so I kind of had to break that to him. I'm like, well, you know, you're in the film, and we're pointing out that you're supporting the new you're not great yeah so anyway he went home and watched it and um and there was there's really been no blowback from anybody in the film even though a lot of them uh are getting kind of caught saying stuff that they shouldn't say what did he say know, without revealing confidences or things like that off the record stuff? Like, what was your take sitting with him for an hour and hearing him talk about the subject matter?

Starting point is 00:47:13 Did it feel like gub-nit man or did it feel like he's actually curious? No, you know, I don't even have to have a take because the conversations are that frank. Most of these guys understand guys and girls gotta count kirsten gillibrand the work that she's doing they they have an official stance that they have to take but they they know and will freely admit that they know they're being lied to they know the government is even the front-facing people at the pentagon yeah but they know it and they're mad about it they they feel the same way about the situation that we feel about it now the complexities that are involved like if you're on the senate intelligence committee and you're after the

Starting point is 00:47:54 hearing you're back behind those closed doors and then you come out of that meeting it just suddenly becomes intensely complex you can be like sitting like like i was sitting with andre carson like me and you are sitting right now and and he's like yeah it's all it's all smoke and mirrors there's things i cannot tell you uh but we're all being lied to by the government body politic the story that we're hearing is not the story you know it i know it the people know it and they know that we know that they know that we know it doesn't matter how much of it is just government though and actually that's a very bad way of asking the question i need to elaborate on that so you can understand what i'm getting at here because the whole conversation so far has been about how it's not just yeah yeah yeah but like

Starting point is 00:48:41 when we think of government sometimes we put it in like separate boxes. I mean so we have like government, like Congress, Senate, executive branch, and then we have government like agencies and things like that. And this conversation has been like there's a mix of a ton of this and then there's people who are coming forward who now aren't in the government allegedly i get all that but i'm saying at the core of it even all the way back in the beginning of this history which we can talk about how it's very interesting that this kind of started right after world war ii like a lot of the stuff right it's not all of it there's been reports throughout human history but the heaviness of it really started after that when you're dealing with these people who are guarding these secrets from the Andre Carsons of the world, from the Kristen Gillibrands of the world, the elected high-ranking people supposedly in our government, I start to then think about, like, for example, some of the other people you covered in your documentary, like Robert Bigelow, who is a – and air quotes right here for people not listening – a private citizen. Right. air quotes right here for people not listening, a private citizen. And I start to wonder if any of

Starting point is 00:49:45 these people, and this is where the tinfoil hat goes on, are any of these people we see who are private citizens all the way to, forget ufology for a second, all the way to funding political campaigns and things like that, are they really private citizens or are they a part of a game and it's just not written down on a central database somewhere? There's probably something to that, but you know what really, what it really is, is that you can't say the government because there's too many aspects to it. Now you have your front facing guys, like the elected officials that are brought into Congress. They, you know, and they have to respect certain privacies, obviously they take oaths. And if they're given confidential information, it's just like anybody else that has classified information. You can't reveal it.

Starting point is 00:50:27 And there is, this is an honor bound system. And we should be very thankful that we have people that, that respect those oaths and those duties. So I used to be very militantly angry when I started this doc, I was like that. I was like, how dare you keep this? This affects humanity.

Starting point is 00:50:43 This affects my ability to live my life you know something like i'm like lou and i sitting just like you and i are sitting and in the back of my mind during that whole interview i'm like dude you have the keys to the kingdom and you're not going to tell me and we're supposed to be okay with that and and back then i was like i'm not okay with that but over time and really understanding this i'm a little more okay with it i still think it sucks i still think that if you have information that could vitally change the course of humanity uh you need to take a really hard look at why you're keeping that from the planet but i do see both sides of it now a lot more than i did

Starting point is 00:51:21 but back to your question yes we have the front-facing government the elected officials then we have the body politic the the people that are there, the career people that have been there forever. And then we have the clandestine groups. And then below that, we have the black operations that really over time, they're accountable to nobody. And so the reason the military wasn't officially studying this even though they were but but only in very compartmentalized avenues is because there was a whole policy to put the ridicule factor into the front-facing rank and file the military so that they didn't look at it but the idea that they were never looking at it and it wasn't being studied by anybody ever is ludicrous and that's

Starting point is 00:52:04 what accidental truth is about it's about they rolled out this new narrative that said project blue book ended nothing happened until the program started in 2004. for people who aren't familiar who didn't see the james fox podcast can you just explain very quickly what project blue book was sure so project blue book was uh back in the 50s there was a huge flap about UFOs. It was bigger than it is now in popular culture. And so the government did a couple of things to try to appease the public. And one of them was we're going to do Project Blue Book. We're going to go and officially investigate this.

Starting point is 00:52:37 How that turned out was that it really was not a real honest investigation into UFOs. A cover-up. It was a cover-up. Yeah, it was basically kind of a dog and pony show. And in Accidental Truth, we actually uncovered that there was a whole other parallel group that was studying these, these, these phenomenons secretly while Project Blue Book was paraded in front of the public. So now enter 2017, 18, when we get these stories that come out the resurgence of ufos in common and military

Starting point is 00:53:07 culture that project blue book ended with this official closing and that the government had no involvement in ufo studies until they picked up the what was eventually the atip program and the film is really all about uncovering that that is completely untrue and showing a lot of what was going on what they discovered what they were studying and what came out of these missing years because the what we call the new narrative that says there was this big gap where government wasn't studying this at all unfortunately they're they're whitewashing that past because they want to be able to the information is going to come to the surface but how they got it and how they kept it a secret and how they manipulated it and who's been

Starting point is 00:53:51 in control that's this empty period between the 50s and and uh and the 90s and the 2000s where they can't talk about it they've got they've got culpability they have to relieve themselves of they've got accountability that they're not going to take because terrible things were done to keep very important information away from the public so if you are quote unquote the government how are you going to get this information out because sooner or later elon musk is going to land on mars and he's going to know that there's something there. And private commercial space is going to come out and they're going to find something. A spaceship sooner or later is going to land. Some evidence that is irrefutable is going to come forward sooner than later in our day of technology. You don't think those people are in on it?

Starting point is 00:54:39 They got to be read in. I think they're read into a point. I think like I actually have this on good authority i called elon out about his thing about not saying aliens i went on youtube and and did a video thousands of people watched not saying aliens yeah when when elon was at um uh he was in he was in boca texas where his Starlink or the Starship base is. And it was one of the times when he was revealing the prototype for the big Starship. Well, he came out during that speech and he says, you know, aliens, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:55:16 I've never seen any evidence of aliens. He says, and I should know. Well, the next day I made a YouTube video and I said, Elon, I don't know why you're saying this stuff. Why don't you talk to Robert Bigelow? I got a proposition for you. And I made it a big joke because at the time my studio was right across the street from SpaceX in Hawthorne. And I actually had a spaceship set in my studio where Kendrick Lamar came and shot his video with George Clinton. And so I'm like, Elon, come on, man, we're buddies. You got a spaceship in Hawthorne, California? I have a spaceship in Hawthorne, California. I mean, it makes us kindred spirits.

Starting point is 00:55:48 And I made a joke out of it. But I said, look, private briefing. I will send some of the best experts in the world from MUFON and from the UFO community. And we just need a half hour of your time. Yeah, that's not. Elon is, he's got contracts up and down with the government. That to me, like he knows, he knows what it is. That's what I was getting to is, you know, we made that offer to him.

Starting point is 00:56:14 And I know for a fact that because we put the media link to move on, they got overwhelmed with people saying, why don't you do it? Elon's thing, I believe, I can't say for sure but i've also talked to people that that run video production inside his organization might be an alien yeah maybe um and and and the thing is is he's he's got his interest in space and he's been told by the people that that that are making sure that he gets to continue having an interest in space stay away from the alien thing just don't don't don't go there but here's a question why does he stay away but robert bigelow goes right in well look what happened to robert bigelow when he did what happened to robert bigelow when he did okay

Starting point is 00:56:56 they will deny that there's any connection because i personally asked people that would know if this was if i was right but when robert bigelow went on 60 Minutes and said, there's definitely aliens, within a few months, Bigelow Aerospace imploded, supposedly because of COVID. His technology for the space habitats got sequestered off and cannibalized by a bunch of other companies, just took it. And NASA stiffed him for millions of dollars in owed contracts he had to sue them to get his money and for you and we had mentioned Bigelow earlier but for full context for people who aren't totally aware who what was his claim to fame and and who is he and how long has he been around so Robert

Starting point is 00:57:38 Bigelow is a billionaire from Nevada he made his money building like residential hotels for people that's where he that's where he made his money building like residential hotels for people that's where he that's where he made his money like budget Suites places where working people could have a place to stay for an extended period he made a lot of money and he always had an interest in the paranormal at one point he bought skinwalker ranch and formed the National Institute for Discovery Sciences where basically he brought in that this was formed around him meeting and getting to know a bunch of these guys that had been involved in some of these programs

Starting point is 00:58:11 that we uncover in Accidental Truth, Hal Puthoff and guys like Eric Davis and some of the other people that were involved in this, Colonel John Alexander, who was running these secret government programs studying UFOs. In Accidental Truth, he reveals that he was actually with Robert Bigelow the day he bought Skinwalker Ranch, and he went and spent the first night alone up on the mesa. So all of these military spooky guys got with Robert Bigelow, and they formed this institute. And then right after he bought Skinwalker Ranch, here comes the Defense Intelligence Agency with a contract. And that was the beginning of AATIP, which was OSOP at the time.

Starting point is 00:58:50 And I don't remember exactly what that stands for. So basically what Bigelow purchased and what he was building created what became a government agency called atip well it wasn't really it was kind of like atip itself well i'll go into that after after i tell the story because people don't really understand the the taxonomy of how this all works um but robert bigelow formed the national institute of discovery science with all of these guys that had government ties and backgrounds and they were studying skin walker ranch and and other things and that's when the the dia found out about what was going on and they went there and they were intrigued and so they decided to throw some money at it um but these all these guys are connected and talking all yes it's not like suddenly something this

Starting point is 00:59:40 didn't fall from the sky right so when when the dia got involved the uh the program was was called osop and the contract for that was um uh given to robert bigelow and some of the stuff that he was supposed to study was a weird phenomenon at skinwalker ranch but there are also things in the contract about studying materials studying technology studying human biological interfaces and all kinds of different technologies that we don't have all under one umbrella and so that was the beginning of this program that came out with Lou Elizondo and when was that approximately back in the 2000s early 2000s because that's where I get a little lost because I'm like it seems like it was born organically out of this quote unquote private citizen just investing in this stuff.

Starting point is 01:00:30 And with the connotation that then the government didn't already have something like that. You know what I mean? Right. That's a little sketch to me. Well, see, this is all a part of coming up with a logical way to bubble this information to the public without having to admit where it came from. Okay. So what we're seeing here is that all of these guys that were in these government programs, mid-level, partially read in, they know enough to know that there's been crash debris. They know enough to know that there's different technologies that have been reverse engineered, but they don't

Starting point is 01:01:00 know everything. And they're not even read in but they've been they've been read in enough to the point where they they know enough to know what's going on with materials with debris they know about some of the programs also guys until tomorrow july 4th you can get accidental truth on apple for just 2.99 instead of 4.99 so hit the link in the description below and go check it out. And then when they found Robert Bigelow, that was, you know, he was interested in this stuff and he had money. And so that gave them another way to fund this stuff. Because a lot of the work that like Hal put off and even John Alexander did back in the day was what they call ad hoc programs, which means that they weren't really official government programs, but they were being

Starting point is 01:01:47 run by a bunch of people with all of the resources and access because they were in the government. And it's very common. And they call them ad hoc programs. And the reason they're ad hoc is because it enables them to not be accountable to Freedom of Information Act requests. In other words words if you have an official government program that's going to study something well then that becomes part of an official record that may have to be revealed but if you have an ad hoc program where it's like you know hey i get this guy from the cia we all have clearances we're all talking and it's like hey you know what's this piece of technology nobody knows nothing we think it's anti-gravity

Starting point is 01:02:24 we're going to have to look into that and so they all get together and they decide that's what they're going to do but it's not under an official auspice of a government program that's officially budgeted blah blah blah blah it's still being run with all the resources and and abilities of people with high clearances but it's an ad hoc program therefore it's not accountable ever and so put off in in alexander and all of these different people back in the day were running a lot of these programs some of them under official auspices but also some of them as ad hoc programs and when they got with robert bigelow obviously being with running ad hoc programs means you don't have government money. And so Robert Bigelow is a breath of fresh air to these guys because he did have money,

Starting point is 01:03:11 lots of it. And so when they formed the National Institute of Discovery Sciences, they were able to fund a lot of this research that these guys had been researching all along, but do it through a civilian mechanism and what's the like everyone always tosses around the pentagon or stuff like that because you know that's where we look for like our defense and things and things but like how much of this is like just people guessing like oh this shit happens in the pentagon versus like that's just an assumption and really it we don't know where this is we don't you know where was the blue room again

Starting point is 01:03:50 ohio right patterson air yeah yeah so like and that's probably a front for something like we do we even really know or have any definitive idea of where they actually do this stuff like i'll believe it if they're like oh lou alessondo had a desk that was in the Pentagon. Yeah, I'll believe that. He could have had a fucking computer like this at the desk and just, you know, showed up to work nine to five. You know what I mean? Like, where they're actually doing this stuff.

Starting point is 01:04:13 Like, people talk about Area 51. That means that's probably not where it is now. You know, like, do we have any clues or are we just totally, like, throwing darts against the wall on that? There's a certain amount of evidence where different programs are happening. Eric Weinstein gives some really great interviews where he talks about that stuff.

Starting point is 01:04:32 Is he a Fed? Well, aren't they all? I mean, I don't know. I like Eric. I just thought they asked. Once you're read into something, then you are part of the intelligence. You might not be a Fed per se, but once they pull read into to something then you are part of the intelligence and you know you might not be a fed per se but once they pull you into that room and they reveal information to you

Starting point is 01:04:50 and you agree not to share it you become part of that system for better or for worse yeah which actually in all fairness to the people who find themselves in that situation is not i don't have a problem with that like no i don't either you're brought into the room and you're like oh by the way you just signed a non-disclosure you can't say shit about this well guess what they can't say shit about it like people that's like kind of the ivory tower part of things like these arguments when we talk about ufology and stuff like i understand it's a huge secret it's a whole meaning of life thing and people want to know but you have to be like i think we run with the like people don't joke like i do about like the Fed thing.

Starting point is 01:05:27 I get it. But other people are like, how dare they? These lizard people are keeping all these fucking secrets from – it's like you have to keep some level of like people – understanding that people don't have this in their control. These are – it's this – you keep on using the phrase read in. It's some guy who read in another guy who read in another guy who read in another guy and maybe they didn't even want to know about it right but now they're tasked with like they got to sit there and i'm lou alessandro sitting across from ron james and i know that there's like 10 things popping in my head right now that my whole

Starting point is 01:05:59 family's going to get murked if i say it right and. And that's a real thing. In Accidental Truth, you know, I asked Lou about that and he actually says, yeah, this is very uncomfortable. I do not want to be in the position I'm in. And if anybody could replace me, I'd do it. And I actually believe that of him personally. But I also believe that he is still working. Once you are in that deep in the intelligence community, you don't retire. You're done. I mean, you are that for life. And so he's – and he did not deny it to me when I interviewed him. I said, Lou, people think that you're part of an organized rollout of this information and that you're just basically accomplishing your mission right now.

Starting point is 01:06:39 And he just sat back and smiled. And it's like, of course. And it would be silly to think different. But does that make Lou a bad guy no no that's and that's the whole point yes yeah and and that's i i think you having that implicit and i would even say based on how you're asking the questions like explicit understanding is important because you're not the world is unfortunately far too complex to just be able to say, fuck it. Yeah, we'll show you. Like even use one that's a one-off situation. Like look at the JFK thing.

Starting point is 01:07:13 They still – it's 60 years later. They still haven't released shit about that obviously, right? If there were one or two people who worked somewhere in the government who had knowledge of it happening – think of all the hundreds of thousands of people who work in the government who had no idea any of that was going down. If the public got a hold in a mob of that evidence, even today, 60 years later, a lot of these people are dead. Most of them are dead. I don't think they could handle it because the risk would be that they'd all descend upon washington dc and say we're run by a bunch of murderers and then suddenly the the grip of democracy and and having a place where you elect people to go now suddenly like it's fragile and it could be ripped so like do i want to know the the actual evidence and like for sure be able to say yes carlos

Starting point is 01:08:02 marcello and sam giancana and the whole crew worked with so-and-so this one guy at the government and they whacked the president or something like that and here's the here's the stone cold evidence and by the way there were three shooters or something like that yes i'd love to know that selfishly but i have accepted the fact i'm probably never going to know that and i understand why i hate it, but I understand why. And I think more people have to have, this is just my opinion, but I think more people have to have that understanding. So to talk to someone who's making documentaries on something like this and, and goes into it, getting that and not, you know, pounding the table, just pissed off about it. You know, I think that's valuable because it gives you going into these projects a dose of reality.

Starting point is 01:08:48 And that's an important thing because sometimes we run with stories and spheres like this and they go too far. And what they do is then when people exaggerate things and stuff, it then affects everyone else in the space. And the lowest common denominator becomes the definition. And things like this get laughed off that's what that's how it happens you know and i wanted to avoid that with my movie it's like people are like look accidental truth is not like an episode of ancient aliens it's not meant to be entertaining it's not meant to be like sensationalized accidental truth is a historical document it is 89 minutes that if you know absolutely nothing about UFOs, you will be brought up to speed at least enough to understand that there's validity to this.

Starting point is 01:09:31 There's nothing in it that doesn't have solid evidence behind it. And as Ralph Blumenthal said, I can't remember if I used it in the movie or not, but he says, you know, what we can prove is compelling enough. We don't need to make stuff up. We don't need to reach for things that we cannot show evidence for. So this whole film brings us right up to the current day, going all the way back to the 40s. And even when we go back and revisit Roswell, which I hated to do, I didn't want to make a film that's a history lesson. And there's people out there that say, well, we knew all this stuff before. And I will be the first to admit, yes, there is stuff in this film that most people already know, especially from the UFO community community but once you get into the last three quarters of the film

Starting point is 01:10:08 the last two-thirds of the film there's a lot of bombshells yes literal bombshells and uh it i didn't make it to be like like you know any other film it is literally a a snapshot in time with the best evidence ever to make the case it was as if i was an attorney presenting the case for ufology government cover-ups and materials and crash debris to a jury and i got some of the most prevalent people in the field to all but admit that it's all true the under the chris mellon the former undersecretary of defense for intelligence you know he put out that story when 2017 first came out he says well the government's not studying ufos at all now i interviewed him right after that and that zoom interview that you see in the thing is yeah it's a zoom interview it doesn't look that good but i did that everyone else was pretty much

Starting point is 01:11:02 in person though yeah yeah yeah but but i did that interview and i said chris i couldn't put the whole question and answer in because i tried to keep things very concise through the film but but i said look chris here's here's the problem you just went up and you put this big thing in the washington washington newspaper i think it was new york times for him right no it was a washington something at the times or the post one of the two for melon for his first story but um he uh he and i said look here's the thing you just said that the government has not been studying ufos you're towing the line that that when this program that just came out the atip program that that's the beginning since blue book but we know that's not true i'm i'm with mufon we know that that's not true we I'm with MUFON. We know that that's not true.

Starting point is 01:11:46 We have plenty of evidence that there's been tons of government programs. And if you were the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, either A, you know and you're not telling, which makes you part of the cover-up, or B, you weren't read in. And right there in the interview, right there in the film Accidental Truth, he says, yeah, you know There's a that's a good point And then he goes on to explain he says there's different levels of secret access programs

Starting point is 01:12:16 I had access to most of them But there's also stuff at the Department of Energy Which is very telling because if you look into what the Department of Energy covers deals with, you know Bill Richardson ran the Department of Energy and Bill Richardson comes out talking about how Roswell was a real thing. Wait, that's not Governor Bill Richardson from he is the governor from New Mexico. He was yeah, and and then he got the Department of Energy He was digging into Roswell and all of a sudden he's head of the Department of Energy And we know that my man was i just gotta say this my man was in epstein's black book he was a feature in that black book

Starting point is 01:12:50 that's that's why he's laying low my theories are tingling right now yeah yeah so but anyway bill richardson um was looking into it and and made some very controversial statements but my point okay so chris melloning acknowledges there's stuff in the department of energy that the defense department can't get to and there's stuff in other government organizations secret programs that the defense department doesn't have access to and then he goes on to say and so is it possible that there was some group somewhere that had some crash debris or something that's always possible and i just in the interview i just stop it right there in the film it's like excuse me what did you just say and and so that yeah and that is why the film's called accidental truth because as far as i'm concerned that was an

Starting point is 01:13:34 accidental truth there's going to be people out there that say well he didn't just admit anything i'm like are you serious are you watching his face are you listening to his words you know i backed him into the corner about making these public statements in a friendly way. And he tackled the answer. And the way he tackled the answer was to literally admit that, yeah, there's probably people studying crash debris and I couldn't get to it. In their defense on any admissions like that, though, they're still, they're admitting that the idea of things exists or which is big but they're still not saying and it's right here with these guys working on it and here's how long they've been doing it and here's what they found so we're still left with the whole abstract idea

Starting point is 01:14:19 of well what does that mean then what do they have and that's the and that's the hard thing again you'll see that that's in accidental truth we go into that too you know where did nitinol come from where did transparent aluminum come from yeah there there is a whole list of um material there was a guy named anthony brugalia and he's a lot of people don't like him in the ufo community for two years he was petitioning the department of defense and the defense intelligence agency for any information in their possession with regards to residue shot off flotsam debris materials recovered from ufos by members of the u.s government and being studied at bigelow aerospace this is in the film and the government came back after two years of threatening, blah, blah, blah, with answers responsive to your request. It was 300 and something pages of reports about materials that nobody knew existed.

Starting point is 01:15:17 Okay. And there was a big blow up. All of the people that are protecting the new narrative. And you guys know who you are. They came out and they trashed this guy. Oh, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. And the thing that they didn't address was that these are official government documents coming from the Defense Intelligence Agency admitting that there's UFO materials being studied at Bigelow Aerospace in Las Vegas, among other places. This was an admission.

Starting point is 01:15:47 And then some people said, well, Freedom of Information Act responses aren't exact. And it's like, yes, they are. The people that release FOIAs make a habit of wordsmithing. Oh, I'm sorry, you said and instead of including. So you didn't get the answer you sought. Very specifically worded request, very specifically responsive answers. And so we have seven or eight different materials that were released and being studied. And the thing that all these materials had in common is that most

Starting point is 01:16:18 of the reports were talking about what the materials might do, how they might be applied, and nothing about, basically, we didn't make them, we don't know. Hit pause on whatever you're listening to and hit play on your next adventure. Stay three nights this summer at Best Western and get $50 off a future stay. Life's a trip. Make the most of it at Best Western. Visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions. It's truck month at GMC. Tackle the open road with added confidence in a 2025 Sierra 1500 Pro Graphite

Starting point is 01:16:53 at 0% financing for up to 72 months. With an available 5.3 liter V8 engine, 20 inch high gloss black painted aluminum wheels, off-road suspension with available 2 inch factory installed lift kit, plus a towing capacity of up to 13,200 pounds you'll be ready for anything this truck month truck month is on now ask your gmc dealer for details they don't come out directly and say that but have you ever can you conceive of a corporation spending billions of dollars to come up with a material and they don't know what they're going to do with it no okay unless unless there were some dark funding saying we just need you to come up with something well so like metallic glass was one of these materials remember back in Star Trek right transparent aluminum and it was a big thing what people don't know is that they actually had transparent aluminum at the time.

Starting point is 01:17:49 It was patented by Raytheon a few years back. And the origin of where Raytheon got the patents, it's very, very murky. Same thing with nitinol, the shape-shifting alloy that we see now in industry. We traced its origins back to right through where the they say it came from all the way back to a private corporation that was studying materials under a wright patterson contract around the time of roswell um and we have the stories of the roswell memory metal that you could wrinkle up and it would unfold yeah that's a real thing now we have metal that does that and it came out of a laboratory studying wrightatterson materials research. And this is proven.

Starting point is 01:18:28 Then there's other materials that they say came that may have a particular tunable resonance that was determined during manufacturing. They say that it may have a tunable resonance determined during manufacturing. Don't they know? If they manufactured it, don't they know if they if they manufactured it wouldn't they know if it had a tunable resonance that they determined during well that could be i'm playing devil's advocate that could be legal cover because that maybe it's and i have no idea because i don't even know how this shit works but like maybe it's because not every time it does or they ran some tests where it didn't every time and now

Starting point is 01:19:06 they got to say it may like i don't know if i'd read well the point is that this these reports came out of a freedom of information act request demanding information about debris recovered by from ufos by members of the department of defense yeah and it's saying you know it may have uh you know a tunable resonance determined during manufacturing. Okay, but if we're manufacturing it, don't we know if it's going to have a tunable resonance or not? The point is, is that the way the reports are worded, we didn't make it. We're trying to figure out what it does. Every one of these five different reports about materials says it may do this, it may do that. It may have possible future implications. Could it be, though, and this is where it can get murky with where does private and in public sector begin, right, or government sector begin? But have you ever read Annie Jacobson's stuff, some of her books? No, you're telling me about that. Oh, I did talk to you about this yesterday.

Starting point is 01:20:06 Okay. But for people out there who haven't heard of her or don't know, I talk about this a lot. My buddy Danny Jones at Concrete is reading like every word this woman has ever written, and he's like blown away by it. He's always telling me about it. I've read some of her stuff. It's pretty amazing work. But she writes about – she's written about everything from Operation Paperclip post-World War II to Area 51 to straight-up CIA stuff to DARPA stuff. And DARPA is the one that's really interesting because DARPA is – that's the agency that like – I don't even know if it's officially like an agency. But that's the government organization that in the mainstream you can bring up to people who like know their way around with

Starting point is 01:20:45 stuff and they'll be like wait what is that again and it meaning it's not it's much more in the shadows more than some of these other places like the cia and nsa and stuff and some of the conjecture i'll call it that that has been reported on that they're able to work on there is basically saying the what i would say has been a public theory for a long time that what they have is always far ahead of what the public has for sure but the conjecture goes as far as saying no it's like 50 60 years ahead sometimes. That I have more trouble believing. But when we're talking about private organizations like this, that you're talking about some of these reports where it comes out and they say, well, they don't know what they're working on.

Starting point is 01:21:34 I wonder if they are basically partnered with DARPA in the sense that like we see a lot of ex-CIA spies in in air quotes, who work for fucking Raytheon or whatever. It's just a – it's a numerical thing on a page for them to pay their taxes. It's not like they're not still – it's just a way for the government to be able to make sure they get paid to do the job they want to do for them. So when I look at Raytheon or these other places when it comes to some of these projects, I start to wonder, is it the same thing? And then take it a step farther. If it's not something that in these public reports or the things that get pulled out of FOIA that they write that they understand, is it because it's something that's been developed in highly experimental scientific stuff behind the scenes via something like a DARPA that like, yeah, the world doesn't have a concept of it, but we have it like I always bring up the example when David Fravor who gives amazing testimony on what he saw from the Nimitz with the with the tic-tac and he gives you the radar it's really compelling stuff and I I think he's a great witness when I see something like that and that was in 04 I think when he saw it yeah I'm like that feels like that could have been DARPA technology so when I hear things like the metamaterials my mind does go to that first not to be like too much of a skeptic but i'm like is this stuff that they have physically

Starting point is 01:22:49 understood and we're just not there yet do you ever consider that as a possibility well it's it you know it's a matter of connecting the dots and doing doing the thought experiment and reading the reports that if you've got a freedom of information act request that you have had to threaten to sue the defense intelligence agency for two years before you finally get an answer and then they that if you've got a Freedom of Information Act request that you have had to threaten to sue the Defense Intelligence Agency for two years before you finally get an answer, and then they finally come back, and there's numerous exchanges between this Anthony Borgoglia guy and the guy from the Defense Intelligence Agency.

Starting point is 01:23:18 It was one person, an information officer. His name was Tominsky, Stephen Tominsky. And I have these that you know I can't put everything in the film but everything in the film is backed up by pages and pages of reference material so we have the letters that went back and forth over two years and there's one letter that says very clearly just to re recommit before we present you with this information you want the material related to material recovered from the

Starting point is 01:23:46 department of defense from ufos by and studied at bigelow aerospace yes here's the documents now you could just stop right there and say well what does that mean well that means that the government just gave this guy reports that they specifically are admitting are what he asked for information about materials recovered for by the u.s department of defense from ufos being studied at bigelow aerospace and other places that's what they gave them so they give them these reports um so you could just stop right there and say what does that tell you well that tells you that the government is acknowledging that they got this stuff from this, and it took two years and a lot of research to get the material. But then when you look into the actual reports, now, sure, nitinol is something that's mainstream.

Starting point is 01:24:35 So is transparent aluminum. You know, that's being studied at DARPA as an armor. You mentioned the nitinol very quickly earlier. I can't remember if you gave the full context of what that was. That's that shit it's a shape it's a shape-shifting memory retaining alloy that basically we use it today in a lot of things NASA's making spaceship wheels out of it it's used in medical devices that they make stints out of it it's basically it's a metal that you can bend it and then just let go of it and it'll bend back to the position it was in originally which is exactly what's described from roswell as this material that you could bundle up and it

Starting point is 01:25:09 would come back right and so the origin of nitinol supposedly from a naval weapon a naval research laboratory back in the 60s or late 50s um in fact the name nitinol stands for naval something something something um and that's where it came from right just talking in the mic by the way In fact, the name NITINOL stands for Naval something, something, something. And that's where it came from, right? Just talking into the mic, by the way. Yeah. So, so, but, but so not so fast about NITINOL. NITINOL is a titanium alloy.

Starting point is 01:25:36 And what we find is that before the Naval Weapons Research Laboratory or whoever says they invented it had it, there was a scientist at a place called Battelle Memorial Institute, which is still a huge contractor for the government, who did some of the very earliest studies on titanium alloys because titanium wasn't a big thing until this stuff came out of battelle the battelle research went to the naval weapons research laboratory that says they invented night and all but it was it was created at battelle and battelle at the time had a contract with wright patterson air force base to study materials and so that's the thing about the film and and all this evidence you start connecting these dots there you start running out of different places to go. And then as they go and we talk about the other materials that are mentioned in the reports may induce invisibility by reflecting or reflecting light. Now, we know that we have technology that we're studying right now that does it.

Starting point is 01:26:39 We know DARPA has it. But where did it come from? And where did the idea come from? So we have these reports that are saying not this material induces invisibility. It says it may. And so these are early reports about the preliminary assessments of these materials before they got into DARPA, before they got into private industry. Then we have another one that has the interesting ability to compress electromagnetic energy. Now, they don't know how to do that. They didn't at the time.

Starting point is 01:27:11 Dr. Michio Kaku comes on in the film and says, we have ways to create materials that will mimic invisibility. Yes. But we cannot yet do it in the optical frequencies. But in these reports, it talks about material that can do it in the optical frequencies. What does that mean when he says that in the optical frequencies but in these reports it talks about material that can do it in the optical frequencies what does that mean when he says that in the optical frequencies basically the way i got it from his explanation is that say you've got something that a material that if you put it under a certain kind of light uh could become transparent and induce invisibility now that's a spectrum frequency it's It's done under artificial conditions.

Starting point is 01:27:46 The optical frequency means that I could take this material and I could put it anywhere, and it would render whatever invisible in the optical frequencies. So, in other words, it would work anywhere. He says we can't do that yet. But these reports talk about materials that may be able to do it. And I've seen stuff that is is mimicking that you know like the invisibility cloak that you see on youtube so we're not far

Starting point is 01:28:09 and darpa's probably already got it that's what i'm saying yeah but that the idea came from somewhere and the government admitting these reports um about these these materials that may do this yeah we're dealing with technology that we have now that probably came from some of this stuff but the point of all of that is that this guy fought for this information and when it came out the pentagon walked it back immediately saying oh no that's not ufo stuff well then why are you telling us it is and why can't you to this minute why can't you tell us what this material does and why can't we see a sample of it? You know, I mean, it's just like, as you follow the rabbit hole and you follow the dots that I lay out in the movie, you know, I'm not coming to conclusions for the viewers. I'm saying, here's the evidence. It will stand up. You can ask me all day long about where I got this, what it means, where it came from, how legit is it, and I can answer all those questions. There's nothing in the movie that's not coming from factual base.

Starting point is 01:29:11 And a lot of it is coming from stuff that came straight from the government in forms of freedom of information requests. Yeah, but to your points from earlier, obviously there's – I want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding that. Obviously, there is some of the people you're talking to are giving some sort of factual cover, like with some sort of like, what's the word? Not reflecting. Why can't I think of that? This always happens. Something about listening to these headphones and hearing yourself back, sometimes you can't think of the right word.

Starting point is 01:29:42 That's the one thing. Deflection. Yes, yes, yes. Chris Mellon says that to me me he says no it's not it's not in the film but right after that he said and you know maybe this is a deflection but there are people in congress that are allowed to answer this question and i'm like well chris you're talking about the gang of eight the the eight members of congress that are supposed to be able to get to everything but if you can't get to everything how can they get to everything and you're a melon yeah but plus the melon family yeah and the and the former undersecretary of defense for intelligence for under two administrations okay you know the and and so to

Starting point is 01:30:14 be able to i'm not going to say to be able to back him into a corner but be able to ask him an extremely pointed question that i might mention he will not answer now to anyone and get him to give me a good answer. It was because I was working with History Channel at the time to help them promote that show Unidentified where the TTSA guys all came up and had a whole show. I don't think I saw that. Yeah, it was Lou and Chris and everybody kind of going back and retracing to some of the steps. That's where the pilots all came out. But I was working with History Channel, plus I was with with mufon and that's how i got that interview is the people

Starting point is 01:30:48 at a and e kind of told chris yeah it's okay talk to them and and you know that was fine that's what i was going in um the guy just messed up the headphones no you're good i'm looking at you look great but when you look at organizations like something like mufon which is like a community and then you look at things like history channel which is like media obviously some of the very people who are being interviewed by these places by someone like you who's a representative of both or other people on these shows like you just mentioned obviously it includes the louis alessandros the chris melons the government guys who they can say some things they can't say some other things they may be told to say some things on purpose for a specific reason like that's obviously some sort of deflection for the

Starting point is 01:31:34 government but like how much do you feel the paranoia of being surrounded by people who are for lack of a better way of putting it, plants to make sure that places like MUFON don't get to information that they don't want them having? Like, is that a constant, like, every conversation you get into, like, oh, maybe this guy works for them or something like that? Or are you more just kind of resigned to the fact that that exists and it just is what it is? I'm resigned to the fact that it exists, which makes me constantly thinking about how to get one step ahead of it.

Starting point is 01:32:06 Yeah. I mean, honestly, it's like that's what I did with this movie. It's like every piece of information in this film, I got it fair and square. Yes. I got it out of these guys. I didn't have to say, well, you can tell me, but I won't tell anybody. I never made what I call the devil's deal. And the devil's deal in ufology is when you get called in by somebody in the know, and they say, and you're a UFO investigator, and you're all about getting the truth to the public.

Starting point is 01:32:30 But all of a sudden, you're in this room, and they tell you something, and you agree that you're going to keep it. You just sold your public integrity to the topic for personal information that you personally crave. And once you make that deal, and there's a lot of you out there that have done it, and you know who you are, and I know who you are, there's a lot of them out there that have done it. Now they're towing the new line. They're towing the new narration. They're telling the new story, which is basically, we're whitewashing this last 50 years, and the information that we came up with over the last 50 years, we're using new ways to to introduce it to the public so that's a lot of what the bigelow aerospace project was all about was how do we take this

Starting point is 01:33:10 black stuff black ops stuff and and top secret discoveries and and technology and data and how do we get it into the public in a way that we can just pretend all that stuff didn't happen and so oh yeah let's study materials of big low aerospace they probably never even had the materials there's that's a whole debate in itself because when this story came out what what makes you say they never had it well because they want you to believe they never had it in again in accidental truth we point out that um that for a long time it was being reported and acknowledged that there were materials being studied at Bigelow Aerospace there

Starting point is 01:33:50 were news stories done about it there were newspaper articles done about it then all of a sudden after this big drop of the Freedom of Information Act about the materials it's an about-face a whole group of people come together and say oh wait a minute we said that there were facilities prepared to study materials at bigelow aerospace but we never said he got them and you see in the film you say ralph blumenthal doing that and you see george knapp doing it where george says did you ever have the new york times reported that you prepared your facilities to study materials did you ever have

Starting point is 01:34:26 them and and bigelow's like no i never saw anything and people have to wait to see what happens next but the point is when this stuff dropped from the from the foyer requests all of these new narrative backing people discredited it the pent Pentagon discredited it and then there was this big movement to get rid of any implications that Bigelow is involved in studying materials and it my personal opinion and I can't prove it but I think it makes a strong case is that after the alien 60 minutes flap Robert Bigelow didn't want anything to do with more classified, potentially sensitive information getting out with his name on it. And so there was an effort to walk the whole thing back

Starting point is 01:35:10 about what happened at Bigelow. But we know that the files for OSOP and AATIP are there at the Bigelow Aerospace Plant, the photos, the pictures, the documentation, it's all still there or at least it was when i made the movie so his involvement in this has and his desire to at least drop significant hints to the public might have cost him a lot you know now he's doing life after death he's not even doing the ufo yeah and this was after the the drop of the uh the material study information or that could be a public front i don't yeah well my my personal opinion is that uh you know he said some things that he shouldn't have said and and he paid a price for it it's also calculated that i can't prove that yeah yeah like he went on 60 minutes he planned out doing it wasn't like you know tmz caught him outside his house and he said something right you know it was i i think i think he planned it but i'm

Starting point is 01:36:10 not convinced that he had permission from the ground all the way up i don't think that his handlers had said hey go on and say there's aliens you know again another thing we point out in the film is that at the time he did that this this was months before the New York Times article broke and the admission about AATIP came out. Nobody knew who Bigelow was at the time. He went on 60 Minutes and said, yes, there's aliens. But a couple months later, I can't remember the exact timeframe, but very shortly afterwards when the AATIP story broke

Starting point is 01:36:40 and Elizondo and all this exploded into the mainstream, then all of a sudden if you went back and cross-referenced what he said on 60 minutes and now you had this new information about who he actually was and what he was actually doing it changed the entire landscape and and that escaped most people it also doesn't help that he looks like a spider-man villain something about like the close-cut stash and everything like the perfectly coiffed hair I don't know something about that again like that's where I get my red lights go up and I go okay what's the real angle here I mean maybe I I could see what you just said could

Starting point is 01:37:16 absolutely be true well look okay I'm starting to understand your thought process okay so you have the the the evidence chain everything is laid, the things that Robert Bigelow said, the government contracts that are in writing, the reports that are in writing. But the one thing that tilts you over to thinking there might be something to it is he kind of looks like a villain from a Marvel movie. He does. He looks like he runs a mass media empire and fucks his secretary on the desk and yells at people on the phone and is read in at the CIA. I don't know. Something like that. My mind goes to those places. I'm just suspicious of people like that because I never – I don't think I've ever known anyone knowingly who's in those circles.

Starting point is 01:38:04 I've been privileged to know some pretty cool people he's got his own like he's got his own space station and remember folks if julian says it it must be true that is that is not true let's just edit that one out christ i try to get it right but i don't fucking know i'm just a podcaster but when the other thing like that i think is often lost in these conversations is we keep talking about these people, whether it be the private side people like the Musks and the Bigelows. And then on the government side, we're talking about whatever that unnamed organization is, but they're all a part of these other organizations. It's always America-centric, right? So –

Starting point is 01:38:43 Well, there is a reason for that. Why? right so well there is a reason for that why it is believed by some people and there's a certain amount of anecdotal evidence to support this that back when the the you know the military and the government were first attacking working on the ufo thing rather it was a crash that happened in the 40s or whatever that there was a kind of like a very covert international agreement that there was going to be this group that managed it, and it was an American-centric group. And that is why you don't see this major disclosure. The ancient aliens did an episode about this, where they're basically saying that there's

Starting point is 01:39:17 this group that goes and handles this on a worldwide basis and it's by by treaty at the very deepest levels and that might be true but the UFO phenomenon is not American said right same stuff that's happening in America is happening all over the world in some places even more and that's my issue because we talk about we talk about the power centric struggle of it in American terms not other places I have a lot of listeners around the world who in their own countries they know more about you know just talk there like you talked to nick pope as well which i want to get back to that he's from britain but you know it's like would the men in black just be american no like to me no would would this knowledge not be

Starting point is 01:40:03 some sort of and i say this this with an understanding mindset to this. This isn't like taking a shot. I'm saying would it not be some sort of global governments coming together on agreement like at the highest levels like, oh, shit, people can't know about this. I would understand that completely. I just feel like we look at it, and again, maybe it's just because I live here and we're both American, so this is the context we talk about it in. But where is the Elon Musk in Europe? Where is the Robert Bigelow in China? They exist, I'm sure, but we still talk about it as if all the answers lie in D.C. or fucking Las Vegas or something.

Starting point is 01:40:42 Well, you know, Americans tend to be like that anyway we see the world through you know very very narrow focus and we don't think internationally and we think you know we're the center of everything but there is a lot of people out there are a lot of people out there that will talk about the fact that this must be by some kind of clandestine international treaty that this in the this the level of secrecy is agreed upon and the processes for investigating these cases is agreed upon and it probably does come uh largely headquartered in america but this is an organization of people like like the men in black movie you know people think that's a big comedy but and and it is based on truth yeah it's

Starting point is 01:41:23 quite possible that there is a very clandestine organization worldwide that manages this stuff. And that it's out of politics, it's out of international disputes, it's deeper than that, it's beyond that, and it's bigger than that. And there's been a lot of cases made for that being a possibility. The problem with any of this stuff, not just aliens or organizations that run that secret, but for any type of secret is – or power. The buck has to stop somewhere, right? Even if we can't see it, it stops somewhere. So you talk about like – oh, a great example, like even some bullshit political example. You have socialists and libertarians, right? And I'm going to generalize here, but like on the purest end of those spectrums, the socialists would want the buck to stop with, in broad terms, the government handling everything, and the libertarians would want the individual handling everything. But if you go that far on the spectrum in either direction, it always ends badly. There's different ways it ends badly, but for different reasons,

Starting point is 01:42:30 it ends badly. So when you're talking about now like a closely held secret like this, wherever that organization is all over the world, whoever's in it, whatever, the buck is stopping with them. So they may have made a decision based on things you said previously that i think have validity to it where you're talking about like presidents aren't even read in on this stuff or can't get to it someone is making that decision somewhere unelected to or a group of people to not read in like quote unquote the most powerful person in the world and then look at other world leaders of other major countries the most powerful person in the world and then look at other world leaders of other major countries the most powerful people in the world and they're doing it out of

Starting point is 01:43:08 some sort of what we hope is Altruism yes, and the good of humanity, but who the fuck are they to say that well see that's the thing We don't know that and a lot of people don't believe that yeah at some point this whoever was tasked with managing this information Got bigger and bigger more more powerful, better funded, with less accountability. And now it is being, well, you know, people say that we have a shadow government that's running the entire planet and politicians mean nothing. Who's to say if you just apply that, which is common understanding, to the people managing the UFO information, it's not a stretch to think that there's this group that's pretty much accountable to nobody running this. Richard Dolan goes even farther thinking that there's a whole breakaway civilization where these guys have spaceships and all kinds of other stuff that we don't even know is possible. I'm not signing on to that because I can't prove it.

Starting point is 01:43:59 I can't find the paper trail. And I've looked. I've looked through the paper trail about you know spacefaring submarines and stuff can't find anything that really indicates that these things were ever built but that back to the point there's plenty of examples throughout history of organizations and people that have this autonomy and are able to function without accountability to anybody and so you know if you're the guys that are managing the ufo secret and you're the guys that are managing the UFO secret and you're the guys that have that technology and you've been working with industry on a clandestine

Starting point is 01:44:29 basis for what's going on a hundred years now you're a pretty powerful group I'll say for sure and again like there has to be you know you can't just, dislike a couple things that some of these organizations do, and then be like, well, that means the whole thing has to go. Unfortunately, the world is, as we said, multiple times, not very complex. So it's gonna, there's gonna be negative with whoever is in charge of situations like this, as far as like, you know, closely guarded secrets, it just that's, that's the reality of it that that is what it is but i'm curious with all the topics you covered in the film like as you said you named accidental truth because of some of the quote-unquote accidental truths that were revealed through

Starting point is 01:45:15 answers by like lou and chris mellon but what was the most if you haven't already mentioned it what was the most shocking or not even shocking, surprising thing that you uncovered in making this film that you didn't previously have any idea about or expectation about? I think that for me personally, as the filmmaker, the most shocking thing was what we were talking about earlier. The very beginning of this is that there's a good possibility that this evidence in this story has not been properly preserved. And that is the thing that shocks me the most, is that something of this much historical significance could be gone forever. And the people that knew about it are largely all dead. The people that were there when it began, they're largely all dead.

Starting point is 01:45:59 And there's a pretty good case that some of the information and some of the evidence is not really stored in some central repository where somebody has the the entire story under one roof and that's frightening because the the idea that it was kept a secret from all of us over these years that's one thing that's bad enough but the idea that it was kept a secret in such a way that maybe there's not even anybody who really knows the whole story anymore that's really frightening and when i first was making the film you know and i was talking to lose people they're like well we're working on this documentary it's going to be the definitive ufo documentary and lose in it and and i'm like look man i don't think you guys can make the definitive ufo documentary

Starting point is 01:46:41 because you're not read in and you're not going to you're not going to go the places that i've gone and tell the story that i've told because it's not part of the official line that you're going to have to tow oh i see what you're saying if you want to go and make a ufo documentary where you talk to members of congress and you talk to nasa and you talk to all these guys and you get the cooperation of all these people you're telling us an organized story that is not true because nasa who just heroically said they're going to start looking at UFOs. I mean, come on, man. Really?

Starting point is 01:47:09 You're going to start looking at UFOs, NASA. Now, okay, let's just put that one aside. Thanks. Thanks for that. Appreciate it. You know, so anybody that's going to, well, we've got the head of NASA. We have the intelligence committee.'ve got the head of NASA. We have the intelligence committee. We got the secretary of defense.

Starting point is 01:47:27 Okay, like Mike Barra says in my movie, you're not the right people to be coming out with this because you're the ones that have been lying to us for all these years. And so anybody that thinks they're going to go and feature all these people in a way that I didn't do it, you know, I got the people in this movie that I shouldn't have gotten to.

Starting point is 01:47:44 Nobody else can get to them in the way I did because they're very protected. Even Gary Nolan now, you can't get him hardly at all. He's under contract right now to not be doing these kind of appearances. But we got to him fair and square. But I did it. Usually, if you can get to the Elizondos, if you can get to the Melons usually if you can get to the elizondos if you

Starting point is 01:48:06 can get to the melons if you can get to some of the other people that are in my film you're being allowed access to them because you're pretty much agreeing that you're going to tell the line the interview that i got with lou elizondos in 2018 it was at the mufon symposium where he came to speak and i'll tell you he came into that room with me tom delong was calling the whole time telling him get out don't do the interview don't do the interview he showed up in a bulletproof vest because he was afraid he was going to get shot and um lou alessandro was wearing a bulletproof vest in the interview no he took it off for the interview um yeah but no he was at the mufon conference in a bulletproof vest um it was right in the

Starting point is 01:48:49 middle of the media tizzy around ttsa and basically everybody in ttsa was under contract the the media surrounding that group became a very valuable asset it turned into the show unidentified and and tom delonge and some of the other people had plans to turn TTSA into you know a scientific research group but also an entertainment company that basically had copyrights on pretty much anything and that was out there so this interview that I got with Lou you see him you see him out there all the time you see him on on podcasts you see him on on zoom calls but you don't ever see him sitting in all the time. You see him on podcasts. You see him on Zoom calls. But you don't ever see him sitting in a studio perfectly lit with good audio because there's no other interviews out there that weren't managed by TTSA in those conditions.

Starting point is 01:49:35 And that's what made that interview so valuable. And that's why I got so much resistance in using it. I was threatened over that interview. But who the fuck? Like, who the fuck is tom delon like i obviously like he's blink 182 guy but like that was one of the most unintentionally funny parts in your movie when you were talking about two stars and you have tom delon coming out on the stage talking about it and then like and here's his five board members fed fed fed fed and i'm

Starting point is 01:50:02 just like and and you even said like something sly like you know obviously all cia nsa so whatever yeah but like how does tom delon like no disrespect he doesn't seem like the second coming of fucking albert einstein how does he end up in this situation where he's like telling lou alessandro like you're gonna do what i tell you to do well here's what happened okay and and you know there's this is a very, very interesting story. And – Please do tell. All right. So Tom DeLonge was – and let me caveat this, okay?

Starting point is 01:50:31 This is my opinion, a lot of it, from what I've understood. I am not going to say that everything I'm about to say in this thing is absolute fact. But this is what my impression of what I have covered, uncovered is. Tom DeLonge was poking around government trying to fight trying to get to people who could tell him about UFOs and he was doing that because he was just a regular guy yeah he happens to be a rock star but he was interested in the topic and he opened a lot of doors because he was a rock star. And before TTSA years before that he did a couple UFO conferences where he talked about that. He did the international UFO conference by, by, um, he, he videotaped in and he's like, look,

Starting point is 01:51:10 I'm just like you guys. I just want to know what's going on. And, um, and that's, and that's all legit. In fact, there's really nothing illegit about what Tom's tried to do. Except that his whole board is fed, fed, fed, fed, fed, fed. fed fed fed well see okay so this is how it evolves um so he was getting to some people and he was getting some answers and he was getting told some things and when the the powers that be behind the Lou Elizondo and the whole rollout which I believe was a very organized thing that they the ttsa was waiting in the wings Lou and Chris came forward with this information they didn't do that in a vacuum they were cleared to do it but ralph blumenthal who wrote the article

Starting point is 01:51:50 in my movie says oh no that's not true but if you put the pieces together it has to be true and maybe ralph doesn't understand it but when lou wrote his resignation letter to the department of defense then he went and met with Leslie Keene and Ralph Blumenthal, and he showed them, and he told them about the program. TTSA was already formed, organized, and ready to go. It didn't just form in two weeks. So what it looks like to me is that all of these guys had this plan to roll out T out ttsa and as a way of opening up information to the public that was going to be very organized and very screwed very well done tom de long made himself very useful to the powers that be because they're like wait a minute let's

Starting point is 01:52:39 put this whole thing under this guy blink 182 for aliens yeah exactly he was he was um leslie keen in in that um that series that jj abrams produced was talking about tom delong's role in it and she actually said that he was a useful idiot to these people um i think that's horrible yeah i think that's horrible that she said that she might be right but it might not be far from the truth. But, you know, bless Tom. It's kind of funny. But the, anyway, so the TTSA was waiting in the wings with this fundraising thing. They came out, Tom DeLonge on stage, he had all these guys. Now, all these guys had been brought into this organization. It didn't happen by accident. This was how they decided they were going to begin this rollout. When Lou submitted his resignation letter and went to the New York Times, he submitted that resignation letter. He lost a certain amount of retirement

Starting point is 01:53:30 income from resigning early from one of the organizations that he worked with. But he did that, in my opinion, because he knew that he was going to jump onto the TTSA and they were going to go out and raise millions and millions of dollars unfortunately they only raised like 2.7 million it wasn't enough and um so basically over time the whole and for a variety of reasons that organization kind of imploded it's still out there it's still doing things it still has some of its original members but they never raised the millions and millions and millions of dollars they thought they were going to raise so what what happened then is that, you know, Lou and everybody kind of branched out. The whole plan fell apart.

Starting point is 01:54:10 And the TTSA taking the lead and leading everybody toward disclosure, that was plan A for getting this technology to the mainstream, is TTSA is going to bring it and bubble it up. Well, that didn't work. And then all these unexpected FOIA releases came out. And then the Defense Intelligence Agency releases these dirts that supposedly came out of Bigelow Aerospace investigating dozens of different technologies that we don't have. The whole thing is the result of an organized plan going sideways.

Starting point is 01:54:41 And it's because what we're witnessing in the mainstream is an internal battle between the people that manage this information and want it out and the people that manage this information and don't want it out and just does the former really exist though there is there's in my opinion again yeah you know if i knew all this stuff then then we'd all know it right um yeah there's factions that think that there needs to be more disclosure, and there's factions that think absolutely not. And there's a lot of reasons. You know, that's the other thing that we have to think about is,

Starting point is 01:55:14 what is the real reason for this secrecy? Obviously, a logical argument for that is that one of the reasons for the secrecy is that people don't need to know it could upset society that's been the oldest reason given and it still has a certain amount of validity but you know the i think the other reason is the technology the people that have it don't want to share it um and they don't want to have to explain where they got it so you deal with corporations if lockheed martin developed the coding for the stealth fighter because they got something off of a spaceship and it's anti-radar, blah, blah, blah, and now it's on our stealth fighters and they're the only ones that have it, why do they want to tell anybody where they got it? Right.

Starting point is 01:55:58 And now you're dealing with corporations and money. But the other thing is, what is the context of this information and what i mean by that okay so you hear the question all the time well the public's ready for it and you might say yeah we're ready for it but you know the question is we're we're ready for it only if the context is is okay right right right so so it's it's no longer an answer it's no longer a question that can be answered with of course we're ready it's a question that has to be caveated with well it's going to depend on what the implications are yes you can't know if it's ready unless you know what it is yeah i mean if they if if they come out tomorrow and

Starting point is 01:56:41 they say oh hey there's aliens out there, but they leave us alone. We leave them alone. We don't really know what's going on. We've had brief interactions, but they're very superior to us, and they don't really see us as much, but they're not going to hurt us. And then people are going to go, yeah, we knew of something like that, and they're going to get up the next day, and they're going to do largely what they did the day before. But if it comes out, hey, there's aliens out there. We think they might have nefarious plans for us. we might be being raised for food who knows we don't we don't know but they're dangerous so we can't defend against them that changes your daily life

Starting point is 01:57:14 as of now so the context of disclosure what it means to how it affects you personally is really what the societal reaction is going to be i'm going to play a guess game with this because i don't obviously don't know but when you're sitting across from a guy like lou and he's saying i can't talk about this i can't talk about that but he has flown out here to this conference on mufon he's a part of a at the time growing endeavor called to the stars has a family at home from i went talking to other people who know him like james fox like good guy goes about life you know does his thing if he had possession personally of information that quite literally defined the meaning of life and perhaps did it on a level where it was the type of stuff that if people found out, the world would riot and humanity would end because we'd figure out that there maybe wasn't a point to it or like we're all simulated or something like that i don't know how he would sit there and like not to go like graphic with it but i don't know how he wouldn't like i don't know how he'd want to live or interact you know

Starting point is 01:58:34 so when i think about because he's the one facing the camera right we don't know all the guys are facing the camera right what they think and whether they're at the bottom of a whiskey bottle right now but he by all intents and purposes seems to be like a barely normal guy i don't know him but that's just how it comes across you know if it were that deep or if he knew that a secret alien overlord were running the earth from below the sea or something like that i don't think he'd be able to sit there and have a conversation on camera at the new mufon conference you know i got okay i got to tell you you haven't seen the whole conversation he'd be able to sit there and have a conversation on camera at the fucking new MUFON conference. Okay, I got to tell you, you haven't seen the whole conversation because we talked about that.

Starting point is 01:59:15 And one of the things that he told me, and it's in the interview, the whole interview will see the light of day one day, but I'm being, even though it's my interview, I own it. He agreed to do it. He signed off on it. I still have gotten a lot of resistance. From who? From people that represent Lou. And who are these people? Is it like some secretary or is it someone deep-throated on the phone?

Starting point is 01:59:38 Media reps. People that see him as a valuable piece of intellectual property. And what do they say to you? Did they call you? Did they show up at your house? How does that? It's not that clandestine. Basically, when I sold the doc to the distributor, it was originally going to be called the Elizondo Tapes,

Starting point is 02:00:00 and people that represent Lou came and said, no, you can't even use that interview unless we agree to let you and I said well it's my interview I'll do whatever I want to with it and then the distributor came to me and said well we understand that it's your interview but you're going to have to play nice with these guys or we're not going to buy your movie and we're not going to release your movie what year was that this was back when i when i signed the deal about two years ago so it was the movie was originally gonna be called the elizondo tapes yeah that's what my original contract was because i have a whole bunch of stuff more stuff that is very very controversial that's in my interview and within some other information so based on

Starting point is 02:00:40 this resistance and then the fact that you were getting a lot of other information that wasn't necessarily directly related to that i i turned the corner with the movie because um a they weren't gonna let me call it the elizondo tapes and b i'd gotten that's when i brought in michio kaku and gary nolan and all these other people to make it bigger than just lou elizondo because if i continued down the track of making it about lou and making it about the stuff that he told me that that that you know to this day is not out um I was going to have a lot of problems getting the film out were you scared of that I was very scared yeah I've been um the film came out April 18th 2023 and until midnight on April 17th before I saw that icon pop up on Amazon Prime I was still was not convinced it was ever gonna see the light of day

Starting point is 02:01:29 The the story of the beginning of this ordeal of making the film all the way to Seeing it out in the public If I if making my next film means I have to go through what I've been through for the last two years I don't care if I ever pick up a video camera again as long as I live it's it's been I can't even describe it and there's a lot of stuff I just can't even talk about and there's stuff that even if I did talk about you just think I was crazy but you said it's less clandestine than we think it's pretty straightforward that particular element of it was less clandestine, yeah. What other elements are there?

Starting point is 02:02:05 Okay. Fair enough. You're giving a lot today, so I'm okay with that. Well, I mean, you know, the thing is that I was totally under surveillance the whole time I was making the movie. My phone, and this comes with the territory of being part of MUFON. They're under surveillance anyway. By people that are keeping track of what the UFO community is doing. It comes with the

Starting point is 02:02:25 territory you take it for granted your phone's tapped they're watching your computer if they feel like it they're following you every once in a while you find some little evidence in your house that somebody's like like stuff moved that there's no explanation for how it got moved it's a little calling card we can we can we can get to you you know like it it happens and it sounds like something right out of a freaked out movie and i don't want to be the guy out there saying it because it just makes me look stupid but i've lived it it's it's part of the thing and the the information in accidental truth there's a lot of people that didn't want that stuff out and there's and there's still a lot of people that don't want it out and there's still an active effort to quash the film even though it's out and i have had to at every turn

Starting point is 02:03:09 in the process of making this movie i've had to understand what i was up against and i've had to adjust my trajectory to sidestep their latest attempt to put obstacles in front of me despite the fact that it came across as far more out in the open as you would have thought you know and my head's got my head's going on my head's like what do you mean meaning the way you started this by saying it's a lot less clandestine than you think no no the the situation with with um with media representation by some of the people that were in it some of the threats that i got over using certain things in the film um what does a threat look like or sound like if you put this out there in this way i'm going to sue you that's what it looks like okay so fairly so so when i say less

Starting point is 02:03:55 clandestine that's what i mean you know nobody nobody like you know do you like your dog not directly no no no no okay because i still have the dogs that's good that's good you know i i just no i'm not i i was never like threatened in that direct manner but i was i was basically some of the content that was that was supposed to be in the film was pretty much nixed by the threat of the film won't come out some of the actions that i threatened to take to preserve my right to release the film was nixed in you can go in that direction but we're going to put your film on a shelf till it's over. And so the some of the powers that be that managed to get a certain amount of control over the film used it to do as much manipulating as they could. And and I did everything I could to get around that, including hiring lawyers over fair use use hiring lawyers over witness protection and

Starting point is 02:04:45 you know whistleblower stuff just to find out you know what the implications were of revealing some of the information and there's information that i didn't put in the film that could technically be termed as classified still and if you put that out even though you got it from a non-classified source you can still get in trouble for revealing classified information really yeah if you even if you don't know if you know it's classified and if you know put it out anyway but couldn't you have deniability on that like i didn't i didn't know it was classified really you want to sit in a room with a bunch of fbi guys and try to pull that off yeah that's true i always forget they hold the cards it's already predetermined what they're going to do and you know the truth is that i would wake up in the middle of the night

Starting point is 02:05:30 sometimes my hard drives chatter in a way and this happened about every week your hard drive's what chattering away in the middle of the night and i look at my computer and you can tell data is being transferred across the internet they're basically harvesting my hard drive keeping up with i believe keeping up with what i was doing with this movie and keeping an eye on it and and i i still to this day think the only reason that it's out is because i was a lot it was allowed to be put out not because i forced my way into the public with it did you find i mean you've already kind of said like there's some things you didn't put in there obviously so it's a piece of it but you also said that it started off as the alessandro tapes and then you went with a lot of the other information you have to make an amalgamation you know not just completely focused on him even though he was

Starting point is 02:06:13 still heavily featured in it like do you think you heavily were creating and in and while in the creating process self-censoring out of that fear absolutely yeah there was i mean there was a lot of things that i just didn't put in there because i didn't want to i didn't want to leave stains on the people in the movie you know like people have said that there's a lot of stuff in the film where people said something and then went whoops but there's a whole lot more that never that will not see the light of day because at the end of the day i promised myself two things one is i wasn't going to denigrate anybody you know and i don't know if you notice this in the film but we don't ask we don't tell people what to think we don't say hey this person's not telling the truth we don't say hey

Starting point is 02:06:58 this person's a bad person we don't we don't do any of that we present you the evidence you can watch what's being said and you can make up your own mind. And I'll tell you something that people that watch the movie the first time, they don't get. The first time you watch it, it's cool. It's interesting, blah, blah, blah. The second time you watch it, you start to understand that a lot of what some of these people are saying is not true. They're not telling the truth. And then when you get to the third or fourth time that you watch it, really starts to sink in and um that's the that's the magic of this film it's like

Starting point is 02:07:29 onions you're peeling away a layer every time how do you like what were some of the is it like a poker type thing like there's just some telltale language and and body language patterns or was it more you were figuring out based on other testimony you were getting that this doesn't line up both i mean for one thing um there's a rumor and i don't know if it's true or not but i tend to think that it is i love rumors there's a rumor that john alexander pulled lou alessandro aside at the very beginning of all this and said don't't do UFO conferences because these people know the questions to ask and they're going to get you. And this was right

Starting point is 02:08:09 about the time I interviewed him and I knew the questions to ask. And there's a lot of times in this interview, like you were talking about knowing if something's harmful or not. In the interview lou says there's there's reasons for concern says that fear i wouldn't go that far but we definitely need to be concerned and and he said that and i didn't use it in the film but yeah he told me that and he said it to other places too the the the reason this was going to originally be called the elizondo tapes is because i considered the there's a big gotcha in the movie around Lou. And it was friendly. And the interview continued afterwards. And it basically comes around him pretty much inadvertently admitting that there's a non-human intelligence or at least some kind of alternative unknown intelligence that's a part of all this.

Starting point is 02:09:00 And he says it, but he doesn't mean to say it. And that's where the whole title accidental truth comes from was that statement and that's why it was originally going to be the elizondo tapes but then as i started because i've got a bunch of stuff like that that tape where he's talking about the isotopic ratios of metals that was from an interview that he did in a washington dc hotel with somebody from mufon before this whole thing really blew up. So 45 minute tape, the section of it that I used is where he talks about the metallurgy and he basically admits in the thing. It's like, look, it's not that these materials, we don't know what they are because we can study metals. We know the periodic tables. Anybody can

Starting point is 02:09:43 figure out what's's what an object is but there's isotopic ratios in these in these materials that just simply can't they indicate that they cannot have been made on earth because there's a whole science behind it um and gary nolan goes on to to confirm that as well the the isotopic ratios of it its molecular things that have to do with the environment they're manufactured in. And like you can have titanium on Earth and it's got a certain isotopic ratio, which is a molecular configuration. You could have titanium that was manufactured somewhere else. The isotopic ratios will be different and they cannot be changed. So in other words, you can you can say okay this is

Starting point is 02:10:26 this is titanium manufactured it's got a certain isotopic ratio throughout all the elements in the titanium that made it the different metals that came together now if you have a piece of titanium and it's got all the same elements but the ratios of the isotopes are different that indicates that it wasn't made in ways that we understand and so lou says that on the tape now there's you know two and a half minutes of this tape that i used in the film it's a 45 minute tape there's less than 10 minutes i use this interview with lou it's a it's a 45 minute interview um and so originally i thought i had enough material just around my lou elizondo material to make something pretty striking and um that got that got kiboshed real fast and then um so that's when i

Starting point is 02:11:11 brought in all these other people and that's when i came out it wasn't the elizondo tapes anymore it was accidental truth because i got a lot of other people that kind of accidentally tell me something too based on how you're talking about lou now after the fact and after the documentary is even out you know you may have said this but the first question would be have have some of those same people who represented him reached out since the doc came out i can't remember if you explain that and then the other question is do you think he would ever sit down and do an interview with you again um you know a lot of the stuff i've literally been uh you're good a lot of the stuff to answer your question i've literally been demanded not to talk about. But what I will say is that Lou and I had a very good text rapport

Starting point is 02:12:08 right up until right about before the movie came out and before other people stepped in. I was texting him constantly, and he was telling me how he was very supportive of the film. He hoped it did well. He was willing to do social media and a bunch of other stuff to help us. And then all of a sudden, that quashed, that exchange ended.

Starting point is 02:12:27 When did that end? Film came out April 2023. When did that end? Yeah, it was right before the film came out. Right when other people stepped in to manage my access to Blue. Okay, but you had long since long since obviously changed the film name and changed the focus because some of these people had already talked to you for years before that and so now they came back in and this time when they came in he also went out yeah for good you

Starting point is 02:12:59 haven't talked to him i haven't talked to him since in fact i was told not to try to reach out to him directly me the media rep told you that yeah sketchy sketchy sketchy it's very sketchy and um i don't know what the reasons are but the whole everything about my relationship with lou changed when it became about see here's what's happened to ufology. When I interviewed him in 2018, it was very, very warm. We had a fantastic conversation and we had a good rapport ever since. But, you know, the UFO field for a long time has been about people, dedicated people doing lifelong work that never really had anything to show for it except that they cared well now all of a sudden there's money in ufos and there's sharks in the water and the water's getting bloody and there are people who will stop at nothing to get their share of it and there are people who stop at nothing to keep their share of it and so what's happening is you've already got a field that is already baked in disinformation and secrecy and treachery. And now there's money in it too. And what you're seeing happen is a war over not only the truth in ufology, but there's a war over the money and there's a war over who gets to tell the story and there's a war over who gets to be the big boy on the block and a lot of the people that are fighting to maintain their position are

Starting point is 02:14:30 people that are telling the story that's authorized to be told and um and then there's other people that are telling stories that are so outrageous that nobody's going to believe them and they're serving their purpose too because if you have people that are that are just you know so tinfoil hatted out that the public rolls their eyes then they're more likely to believe the official narrative yes and and my film accidental truth is not about the official narrative it's about why the official narrative isn't true and and what what the true story is but it's also about um it's not about the sensationalism that is usually the opposite end of the spectrum it's about hey

Starting point is 02:15:06 let's reel this in and let's let's prove something and let's lay down door did what I consider to be as close to the authentic tale of what's happened over the last X number of years that we can that we can make a reasonable case for and it's a story that nobody wants told the reality is with anything be ufology insert industry here people got to make money they got to make a living right the differences are the people who are gluttonous about it and that's what drives them totally and they will stab everything in the back that moves to stop their ability to make the maximum amount versus the people who are like, yeah, I want to be compensated for my great work and I want to be respected for it. But like, I'm here to work to move forward the value of what this industry does

Starting point is 02:15:55 or what this company does or something like that. When I hear about the gates around the kingdom, as you're referring to right there, I'm glad you put that into two boxes you have the box on the one hand where it's like well are there people who are directly being set up here to give out specific information on behalf of what the government once released and then are there people also who are just in here who now see dollar signs and go, ooh, I can just talk about UFOs and make a lot of money on it. You know, that's the problem is when you're dealing with something that is casted into conspiracy theory land and painted a certain way by the mass media and the general public,

Starting point is 02:16:41 all it takes is a few bad apples to ruin the whole thing and basically become the definition of it. We talked about this with something a little bit earlier, but right on the head here of the actual industry itself, you know, if I'm going to talk with people on my little platform here to discuss the phenomenon and stuff, I want it to be the legit people. I want it to be the people where it's like hey you don't have to agree with everything they're saying you can refute some of the evidence if you have better evidence all for that but these are genuine people who are trying to get to something here who who aren't it won't take long to tell you neutrals ingredients soda, natural flavors.

Starting point is 02:17:31 So, what should we talk about? No sugar added? Neutral. Refreshingly simple. Instacart has all your groceries covered this summer. So download the app and get delivery in as fast as 60 minutes. Plus enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. Who aren't just complete disinformation agents, and I'm going to add into that, by the way,

Starting point is 02:18:21 some of those people who are working on behalf of the government. I understand their role. It's not like I'm sitting here add into that, by the way, some of those people who are working on behalf of the government. I understand their role. It's not like I'm sitting here ripping all of them. Are there some that maybe it's like, okay, it's very, very obvious and, like, you seem to be just totally full of shit? Sure. But, like, I'm not saying that about Lou. I'm not saying that about Chris Mellon. You know, there's value to be had there, and I think it's the audience's job to take away what you can and try to find, you know, get your best guess at what is believable

Starting point is 02:18:45 and what is not. Well, see, it's not that I don't think that Lou or Chris either are full of shit. I think that what we're dealing with here is that at the beginning of this 2017, there was this decision made by a lot of people that we're going to roll this out, but we're going to do it with this new narrative. And again, the new narrative is whitewashes everything from the end of blue book all the way till the beginning of a tip and pretends there was no official government study of this in that time when, and that is ultimately where all the deception and all the lies are buried. And that's why they're whitewashing it with the new story. So when TTSA rolled out, they were going to be the vehicle for the new narrative. That's why you have all these CIA guys, you know, we're telling this story and we're this

Starting point is 02:19:29 vehicle that's going to do it. And Tom DeLonge. Yeah. And I'm not sure that Tom fully understood his purpose in this, but in my opinion, that's what it was. And then now, and even then, but especially now, if you are a threat to that new narrative, you're not getting to any of these guys. You're not. I got to Gary Nolan, but I was one of the last people.

Starting point is 02:19:56 And the interview I did with Lou is one of the only ones. And the fact that I was able to get to Chris Mellon and press him on the question, these were all anomalies. That's why this movie is an anomaly, because the information and the questions I was able to ask these people are questions they will not answer now to anybody. And so the fact that you can go and get to these guys and ask these questions. I got very, very lucky because you can't do that now. Now, Lou does a lot of these podcasts and stuff, but he's still only saying things that are on a very tightly controlled rail. And he's going further and further,

Starting point is 02:20:36 but he still knows what he can say and what he can't say. And in the film, he pretty much adhered to that. And in the interview I did with him, he adhered to to it but there were just a couple times when he slipped because i knew what questions to ask um i wasn't trying to get him get him but in the back of my mind i wanted to to get him to tell me something um in as friendly a way as you could possibly do that so if you're if you're towing the line for the new narrative and you know who you are if you're telling the line for the new narrative then you're in the club you're in the club that gets access to the government interviews you're in the club that gets the gets the head guys to

Starting point is 02:21:17 come and be in your movie you're you're in that club as long as you're towing the new narrative line and you're willing to to cooperate with this oh yeah there was nothing going on for 50 years that's that's the most important thing to to adhere to is to not call attention to those periods of time when all of this was was evolving yeah there's something patternistically interesting about that when you think about things outside of space things outside of aliens that have also happened in that course a history like you're saying from Project Blue Book basically to you know the last decade 2017 there wasn't anything and that's the narrative look at like space exploration though

Starting point is 02:21:59 too we got to the moon in 1969 mm-hmm suddenly it wasn't important to get to the moon or go beyond that. Supposedly. There were still some trips, and you had a couple of unfortunate, very sad incidents. 86 with the Challenger, 03 with, what was that, the Columbia, I want to say? Whatever that one was where it crashed as it was coming. It blew up as it was coming it like blew up as it was coming back in the atmosphere so it's not like you didn't have space exploration but space kind of took a back seat it went from the race to space hire all the ex-nazis to get us

Starting point is 02:22:35 you know rockets to the moon and everything and then oh we got there and everyone chill so it's interesting to me that there also was like a break in the action, and they're even reporting that as the official narrative in like UFOlogy and alien space. Well, see, they say that we got warned off the moon and told just to stay put. And then there's other people that say that there's a whole subsequent space operation, a secret space program where we have advanced technology. I can't prove any of that. I didn't want to make a film where I'm saying things that I can't show, you know, a paper trail. If I had, hey, they're secretly launching secret space program ships off of, you know,

Starting point is 02:23:15 Diego Garcia where nobody can see the rockets go up and we have proof that we have bases on Mars and all this kind of thing. If I could find a shred of evidence that is as definitive as the stuff I try to present in the film to support that, then I would present it. Do I believe it? I'm not sure because I haven't seen the evidence. I'm discerning. I'm not somebody that just wants to drink the Kool-Aid. I want to know. You're going to have to make a solid case for me. I'm not going to be like, oh, I believe it because I want to believe it. And that's important. Well, it's about's about journalism right at the end of the day it's not about just being oh my gosh you know i think this is true and it must be true and and so i'm going to make movies about it i've never been that person and and i'm not going to do it

Starting point is 02:23:54 now and so that's why the the film that i made is everything's got a reasonable amount of of evidence to support it even if it's anecdotal and even if it's circumstantial. Well, you keep on, you've brought up Dr. Gary Nolan. He's a doctor, right? Oh, yeah. He's a professor of pathology. I always err on that side. I was pretty sure that sounded right in my head, but I had to make sure. You brought him up a few times today and you've talked a little bit about like some of this testing he's done. But one of the things you talk about in your documentary is how seemingly according to him he fell into this kind of by accident and if i remember this correctly it had to do with he was studying

Starting point is 02:24:34 like cancer or something metallically is that does that well there's two things that his work led him to one is he developed a special type of mass spectrometry the guy's a genius english yeah what does that mean that's where you can put a piece of something into a machine and tell you what it's made of okay um so he developed a very specialized version of that the guy the guy is quite a genius and i think he's he's become rich off of some of the stuff that he's invented and patented and um he's out of stanford too yeah he's at stanford yeah um so he he invented a certain type of mass spectrometry and one of the things that they were using in it was like a metal tag to to give a consistent reading throughout stuff so you know like you'll you'll tag something

Starting point is 02:25:17 or something you know so that you can use it to gauge anomalous responses by the machine does that make sense yes so in other words if you have a piece of aluminum and you put it in with another sample as long as that piece of aluminum comes out reading exactly like that piece of aluminum should read then you can rely on the other readings because you have the piece of aluminum to gauge the the exactness of the machine's work so he had developed this special type of mass spectrometry that used metal tags. And he was approached, and he says, yeah, I have this machine. Nobody else has.

Starting point is 02:25:51 And so, he got the chance to study materials. I can't remember. Did he say who approached him? Well, he said Jacques Vallée was one of them. Jacques has some of this stuff. The famous French scientist. Yeah, he's got some of the materials from Brazil, from UFO things, possibly James Fox's, possibly other ones. It's well known.

Starting point is 02:26:14 But he also says, you know, that was approached by Jacques and others. And that's one of the biggest cool things in the movie is that, um, I, I, you know, I researched him and he did an interview with Jesse Michaels where he told this guy, Jesse's a podcaster. He says, he told him supposedly that he can show you some of this stuff, but I can't show you other stuff because of, uh, national security concerns. But then he went on the Lex Friedman interview, um, Lex Friedman show. And he said, yes, I've been given stuff by people, you know, not like the government or anybody. And so I confronted him on that. I'm like, look, in one podcast, you said you had stuff you couldn't show because of national security concerns. And then in another interview, you said you hadn't been given materials by the government.

Starting point is 02:26:59 So kind of, which is it? And that's, you know, that's another accidental truth moment in the film where he just kind of you know his response is is worth the 4.99 so that's um that's that's the kind of thing that you see in the movie but it's very clear that he's been studying classified materials that are of unknown origin and what he will tell you off camera very candidly um it confirms that but what we what we put in the movie confirms it and then he went on to uh uh he was given um brain scans of victims of the havana syndrome oh yeah okay so and he was he was studying those and um through the course of that he actually he got to the point where uh he was able to identify certain aspects of that and that yeah these people were being

Starting point is 02:27:52 injured by artificial means and then he kicked it back to wherever he got it what did he discuss i don't know as much about that so did he discuss about whether or not the findings conclude that it could be human-made versus something that maybe is not not nothing with the havana syndrome that that although they you know they don't understand the technology that's causing this yeah but i believe from what he told me and it's not in the film so i don't remember every aspect of it but he said that he was able to determine that yes there was there was something happening to these people and across these different specimens and and mris there was something consistent that had in common and at

Starting point is 02:28:35 that point he's done he's he's done his research work he turned his reports to whoever gave him the stuff to look into but at the same time he was applying some of these same readings to people like experiencers and remote viewers and people experiencers or people who like got abducted supposedly had some kind of not encounter with a non-human intelligence that whole that whole phraseology kind of has to expand at this point and we can talk about that if you want but sure he thought he found an anomaly in the brains of people that have heightened psychic abilities our remote viewers have had these kind of experiences where there's a part of the brain called the basal ganglia that has heightened activity and what he found is that when he started when he did more research into what the basal ganglia is it's long been associated with heightened perception heightened awareness and

Starting point is 02:29:25 intuition and things like that um and now he's got scientific evidence that that people that are having these experience have this heightened activity in this part of the brain so in some cases it's more developed so that's the whole last third of the movie is talking about how we now have actual evidence that people that are having certain experiences have a slightly different brain physiology than people that aren't and he's found that these people are um they tend to seek each other out they tend to find each other then and and like you'll find couples that both have the same thing going on with their brains and that it is almost like a whole other classification of homo sapien that has this this level and this this type of brain

Starting point is 02:30:12 and that he thinks and that there's all kinds of different methods of communication all kinds of different methods of information transfer and this is all the what the last part of the movie is about is how this all interacts with consciousness that we don't know about but that our evolution has learned to latch on to and so this thing that he's discovered in the basal ganglia of the brain among certain people that have certain abilities and experiences in common is indicating to us that our physiology is adapting to stuff that we're not aware of you know on a scientific basis now i was thinking as you were saying this the thing that's blowing my mind is i hadn't thought about that in the context of like some of the non-alien stuff

Starting point is 02:30:55 like now my head may be going way above my pay grade thinking about this but you know we're we're way above our pay grade we need michioio Kaku back. I know. I know. I've got to get him back down here. But like thinking about like let's use the Havana syndrome example because there's been, you know, there's people that try to claim like, oh, no, it's in their heads or whatever. But I've been trying to get this one fucking guy in here for 16 months now. I started emailing him like March 2022, and i've never heard a word back so someone has an end to him this guy mark polymeropolis he was a cia agent who apparent very high up who apparently has severe havana syndrome and he's been on some other podcasts talking about it

Starting point is 02:31:38 actually shit he was on sean ryan i could ask sean for that fuck i just figured that out anyway but maybe we'll get him in here like i hear guys like that talk and instantly when it's a CIA guy some people say like oh it could be a government disinformation agent but like I believe him when I hear him talking about this and I also hear some of the evidence where people try to say that like oh it's just a heightened sense of awareness and paranoia that exists in people and i go well that could be true too but when you hear the level of some of these symptoms and the lengths the government has gone to like ignore it or like cover it up or not even in mark's case like for a long time provide the right health care for him to get treated on it i start to go well maybe this is like instantly they'll say like oh china

Starting point is 02:32:22 russia whatever and just go to the regular culprits. Maybe it's something that is, for lack of a better way of putting it, extraterrestrial, so to speak. And I don't mean that by like aliens. Maybe it's like – maybe it is like a different vibrating frequency in like the multiverse, which I may be misreading some of what you said but that's where my head was going to with what Gary was talking about with this yeah so we talked briefly about it I didn't put it in the film because Havana syndrome doesn't have anything to do with you know other stuff but basically the way he summed it up to me as best as I can remember is that yes I was given all of these these mris in this in this brain scan

Starting point is 02:33:07 technology i was able to find things that correlated and i was able to identify that yes this was an injury to these people and so at that point he said i didn't study it any further i don't know who's doing it or where it came from but that was a different framework than what he discovered with the basal ganglia and people. It was two different things. And so he started to find these anomalies among certain people. And it was about the same time he was doing the Havana stuff. So he was able to kind of correlate different things going on in the brains of different people. And that's when he stumbled on the, he literally stumbled on it.

Starting point is 02:33:42 The basal ganglia research it was something that he found by accident but he was also able to validate the havana syndrome stuff that it is something that is you know it's a common it's it's it's similar in all of the people that were studied and it is something that was affected by external forces. That's a whole, yeah, I have to do a podcast on that. I know that's like a separate thing, but I'm just so fascinated by that because that could happen to technically anyone. Like there's, you know, it's not just like some warfare among like agents and stuff. Like it has happened to citizens. Well, I mean, the idea that we don't have something that I could point at you right now and affect your brain in any number of ways is, I'm sure we have that by now.

Starting point is 02:34:27 Yeah. I'm surprised they're not using it in warfare right now. I mean, why attack a trench with bombs when you can just aim a beam at them and make them go crazy? We know we have that stuff. We live in a world where that on the wall right there, that picture of the nuke going off is what we think about as like the thing that all these countries have that could end it. But like there's far more invisible simpler ways that they could do that on a way higher level at a more effective kill rate that exists in the palms of the hands of humanity right now. Biological warfare, microwave warfare if that is the case. You know, it just – I keep saying this on podcasts but it

Starting point is 02:35:06 every day it feels more true it's like society seems more and more fragile at all times well you know john alexander but one of the things that's well known about him is that he headed up a program for the army looking into non-lethal weapons technology okay and on the surface you surface, you think, well, what does that mean? Oh, you know, rubber bullets, right? Or, you know, electricity, whatever. But during one of our interviews, he said something about how he was down in Brazil working with shamans while he was doing, while he was involved in the non-lethal weapons technology research.

Starting point is 02:35:44 And that went over my head and and and i didn't i didn't follow up but then when chris o'brien i don't know if you know who chris is he's um he's one who's considered one of the definitive experts on cattle mutilations he's written a bunch of books um but but he him and i have made several movies together so he helped me with accidental truth he's helped james too on the phenomenon and on moment of contact but when chris was reviewing the footage he's like do you understand what this guy just said when he said that and i'm like no what do you mean he's like he's he's with shamans in south america studying non-lethal weapons technologies his big alexander's background there's pictures a lot of stuff with uh you know like black magic and all kinds of esoteric stuff this guy's in in non-lethal weapons research

Starting point is 02:36:34 looking at literally casting spells and and etheric stuff and and and you know so so i asked about that he's like yeah that it's we i i wasn't looking at rubber bullets dude i mean these guys are looking at ways to control energy that we don't see and affect people's souls and all kinds of crazy stuff like that this is the kind of stuff they were looking into what if they have it and they're already doing it it's quite possible to you and me yeah well at least we're lucky enough to not know it i guess you know ignorance is bliss we get to have this crazy illusion that we're making the movie we want to make or we're living the life we want to live you know i think it's it's

Starting point is 02:37:15 better than being locked up in a gulag in china yes i'm hey i'm with you i am with you there you gotta look what is it the glass half full yeah that's what you gotta do i mean know, I wake up every day and at least I have the illusion that I'm doing what I want to do. And I have a lot to be grateful for in the life that I live. Well, you know what? You said something in the car earlier, just making me think of it now. Oh, man. Because the illusion of doing what I want to do.

Starting point is 02:37:40 This blew my mind. Okay. The rabbit hole is about to get deeper. Yes. Let's go right down it that's why I'm bringing it up you were saying to me how did you put it where you were asking me about like this podcast or something like do I ever feel like I'm a passenger or something like that well yeah because okay so this this is what started the conversation and I

Starting point is 02:38:00 honestly there's seven billion people on the planet I don't know who I would say this to. Eight now. But for some reason, I just brought it up. You have a very disarming quality about you. And also, since we're going to do this show, I was like, well, let's dig into some philosophical stuff. So I just wanted to mention it to you. But there's been so many times in my life where I've done something that could be considered a significant accomplishment. And I remember having done it, but I don't really remember the process of actually getting it done. I can stand back and I can look at something I did and it's like, wow, where did that come from?

Starting point is 02:38:39 And a lot of times I'll be doing something like building a new studio or writing a book or like even when I sit down to do an edit session, it's almost like I'm on autopilot. And I got to the point where I'm questioning, am I driving this car or am I in the passenger seat watching it being driven? And that brings up this whole question of do we have free will or an illusion of free will? And is this reality that we're in, are we on a tram half of the time like a ride at Disneyland or are we really in the driver's seat in our own experience and I've really started to question that and I've got some theories about that that are that are very interesting share the time I shared them with you before but if the universe works as a simulation, a program, and people say, hold on, stop right there, dude. We're not plugged into a matrix.

Starting point is 02:39:30 But let's look at this for just a second. Could be. This table, right? Okay. Now, most of science will agree at this point that this table is not really here. This is energy vibrating at a certain frequency to give us the illusion of solid matter. This is not far-fetched stuff this is something that dr cockery would sit here and go yeah that's what we've determined so we could determine that so that means matter is an illusion

Starting point is 02:39:53 so that means everything around us is literally an illusion i personally think that our brains are wired to interpret these these electromagnetic energy patterns and render them like a computer would into real stuff that we can interact with but let's just go back to the basics of this isn't really here it's an illusion then let's look at what runs the universe the it's very simple mathematics it's the fibonacci sequence it's pi you find that the things that make things work within this universe within physical reality are based on just two or three very simple mathematical formulas in repeating sequences that give us the shapes that give us the way things work that give us the way gravity works

Starting point is 02:40:34 blah blah blah blah blah right so what is that well that's a program by any it's a it's mathematical algorithms creating a result zeros and ones so So we have an illusionary reality. We have an entire system that is run on code. Well, what is that besides a simulation? So even with what we know about the way the universe works and we can say science pretty much agrees that this is true, there's no way around the fact that that is very comparable to the various simulations we're creating a computer game works the exact same way there's illusionary matter we don't see it until we turn to it we don't walk on the ground

Starting point is 02:41:15 until we move forward we don't hear it until until we take an action that hits it we don't it doesn't render for us until we're right in the middle of it so like right now i'm seeing this table within what i can touch within what i can see and what i can smell but who's to say that there's anything outside that door right now because until i walk out there it's not necessary for it to be created in front of me just like in a computer game when we until you walk in the door of that computer room it's nothing but numbers and and and patterns that are ready to be popped into reality for us to interpret do you think though that if somebody if you walked out of here right now you're a good guy i don't

Starting point is 02:41:58 think you'd do this but if you walked out of here right now and you just found the first person on the street and killed him uh-huh do you think that what we're saying then means that that's a part of the simulation that we don't control and therefore is that even is that even evil that you did it's it's an evil act that you did that but are you evil for doing it or were you programmed to do that well see this is where where we're we're not quite connecting because the idea that we're in a simulation doesn't mean that we're sims that are being controlled. I think that because of what you said,

Starting point is 02:42:33 that would be like some outside force says, oh, let's make the little guy down there do this. And maybe that happens. Grand Theft Auto. But when I, yeah, when I, you know what time I was playing that game and I walked out and almost ran over an old lady for points. And that's when I decided I think I'm done with the video games.

Starting point is 02:42:55 That was it for me. Oh, the shit people admit in here. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, literally, man, it took me a minute. And that's a true story. It scared the shit out of me. Oh, my God. a minute and and and that's a true story it scared the out oh my god but see that

Starting point is 02:43:05 the reason i brought up the the nature reality is because if it truly it and and this is how it ties into free will or the illusion of free will and there's guys out there a lot smarter than me they're going to listen to all this and go put that guy back whatever boxing came out but maybe not maybe not you know elon musk didn't know anything about rockets till he read a book that's true you gotta start somewhere man but if you if if you can acknowledge that the universe and physical reality and matter and everything is basically a simulation run by algorithms which is pretty reasonable based on even what we know about science now um then how can you possibly have a mathematics-based simulation that stays cohesive when there's eight billion variations all were all

Starting point is 02:43:55 running ram randomly so in other words if how can the program contain cohesive reality if every one of us is just this sporadic random thing that's doing anything and everything at any time and the system has to respond to that and still keep water blue and sky in the air and clouds? The mathematics of that are almost impossible to comprehend. And how would it work? So my theory about free will and the illusion of free will is that we are, you know, sentient creatures with our own allocation of spiritual energy that we are in control of. But as we meander through this simulation, there's certain key points where we make decisions that affect where we're going to go next. Like, are you going to marry her? Are you going to run away at the wedding? Are you going to give up that alcohol? Are're going to go next like are you going to marry her are you going to run away at the wedding are you going to give up that alcohol are you going to die an alcoholic can you are you going to become a drug addict are you going to do this you're going to

Starting point is 02:44:51 do that you're going to go to college you're going to join the military these are all key points in our life where we make a decision that radically affects our trajectory that's where free will comes in that's where we we actually have that ability to make these decisions. But a lot of what happens after we make these decisions, I think is part of like a predetermined, even if it's determined by formula. In other words, if A equals C, then D. If he does join the military,

Starting point is 02:45:21 then he's going to have these certain experiences all the way to whatever. Not that every life is pre-written but that but that it narrows down the possibilities and what you're going to do so a lot of times sometimes you're making a free will decision but then sometimes you're on the ride that comes from making that decision and every single thing that you do is not always free will sometimes you're the passenger in the car based on the decision that you made and it's the only way that it makes sense for me for the for the whole algorithm of reality to work i'm not smart enough to come up with which one like how it works but i do gotta admit i enjoy the conjecture of trying to make some sense of it, even if even if it ends up and it definitely will that we're like way off in multiple different ways. If there's something that can that happens in conversations like this with two people who are not scientists right here, I'm highlighting that that ends up being figured out in our lifetime that is like even on the right pathway

Starting point is 02:46:27 something about that mystery i think would be pretty powerful to feel that's why it's cool that we get to record this on camera and right you know one day people can look back 200 years from now and be like wow they're fucking idiots over there like they had no idea or like whoa they knew like one thing by accident you know but when we start talking about what we get to decide and what we don't that's where i i start to get stressed because i'm like you know i think of my life as you're in charge not just that like yes yes 100 but also in what I'm in charge you know I'm a human I make mistakes but I'm always trying to do right I'm always I don't like when people are pissed at me I don't like when when I do something that then

Starting point is 02:47:13 affects someone else in a negative way see that's a free will decision that you made exactly not necessarily an action decision but a character does yes so you're living the life that results from having made that decision if you were a guy who at the core of your being made the decision that hey i don't care i just want to see how many people i can piss off and how many viewers i can get and how much you know controversy i can create and i don't care people like me and i don't care if i'm honest well then you'd be living a completely different life based on that decision but do you think that those decisions and i heard i think it was jesse itzler said one time like there's like 30 to 50 thousand decision points a human being makes a day sure crazy to think about and they all use a

Starting point is 02:47:52 different level of brainwaves or however they explain it but do you think that each decision that is made which forms a decision tree which means there are numbers we can't concept see I think that there's things that we think are decisions on a lower level like like are we going to grab the diet coke or the diet sprite that we think we're making that decision but we're just living that decision because it's not that important and if there's different frequencies that affect different decisions in the brain then maybe these decisions are being fed to us through these different frequencies and they're being reacted to based on what frequency that decision is all right it's either an order or a decision but we think it's a decision even though it's an order bookmark that for a second

Starting point is 02:48:33 that's like you just like ordered another pizza right there but okay that aside pretend for the sake of argument that most of these things actually are our decision okay in air quotes every time we do one of those could it be that there is there there are trillions of vibrations of a similar universe where we make that decision in a slightly different way that then affects everything afterwards so right now i exist in unlimited infinite universes as a totally different person in a totally different environment where the butterfly effect since the beginning of time wherever that is affects us to the point that they all are completely different worlds yet somehow they may be similar well see you know that's a multiverse thing yes and then there's

Starting point is 02:49:19 also a scientist named Amit Goswami who says that all of these things exist but when we take a certain action they exist things exist, but when we take a certain action, they exist energetically. And when we take a certain action, they collapse into that reality, but that none of these other realities are actually happening in the same way that the reality we're perceiving is. And so like this idea that there's one you, right? But you are the sole guide that is you you but there's all these different possibilities and every time you make a different decision that results in a different outcome you're not you're jumping into this other

Starting point is 02:49:54 universe where that possibility exists and the you that is you goes there which is being occupied by a placeholder until you yourself go and the real Julian goes and occupies their the julian in that reality it gets kind of weird but the whole point of why i'm bringing this up is because it's kind of stuff i think about it's kind of stuff you think about yeah and and that's the whole the the point of all of this is in making documentaries about ufos it's because we're thinking about the mysteries of why we're here, what we are, and what it all means. And so few of us are making that commitment to puzzle

Starting point is 02:50:34 that out. And if there's anything that I would say is, you know, why is that? Why are we so content, for lack of a better word word even though it's hardly anybody's content why why is it why why are people largely okay with just living in this in this simulation or if that's what it is and they they very rarely even think about it i mean i'm spending constant time puzzling this stuff out trying to figure out what this is because i know it's like in the beginning of the matrix they said you know there's something wrong with the world yeah and there's something wrong with the world and if i'm going to be here i'm going to work on helping other people to understand that there's something wrong with the world and i'm going to work on figuring it out for myself and

Starting point is 02:51:19 what is the higher purpose of all of this and it's in religions that do it it's it's everywhere but the the amount of people that aren't focused on that and that have lost sight of it it's it's disturbing but then maybe they're not even real right maybe they're just non-player characters in the game again it's like are you sitting across me right now am i sitting across from you like which one of us is the real one yeah we could we could go off on that subjective reality consensus reality uh yeah the the thing i and i say this a lot now i'll probably say this forever and i'll say it on podcasts all the time because i say it in my conversations with other people off camera all the time but i always try to remind myself and i know i fail sometimes but i try to remind myself i've only ever lived between these two years that you know of

Starting point is 02:52:07 Again I think we need a direct line to Domino's at this yes, there's literally like we're like the meme right now That's popping them off. But just for the sake of argument I've lived between these two years in the world that I know exists right right and all these other people like we study psychology we there's science that studies patterns we all know the anatomy of like human beings but everyone reacts in the smallest ways differently or has different ways of thinking about things and so i do my very best to not be judgmental of other people and i think it's a big part of what can hopefully make me successful in my job as well and so you know people have different beliefs they come from different environments they have different motivating

Starting point is 02:52:50 factors they have different reasons for existence and to me the number one thing i look at with people is are you a good person what the fuck with you are you cool right like you're a good guy i like that everything else after that is great because we're talking about on a podcast but most importantly like I enjoy your company. And so when people aren't sitting around thinking about this stuff deeper, think of some of the stereotypical examples. Let's say you're 45 years old with a wife and three kids, and you're trying to put them through college, and you want to be able to have some time for yourself on the weekend to spend with family and maybe that's what you get that time and and that's what excites you and you're enjoying your life and you're not you're not necessarily worried about it i'm cool with that it doesn't mean that like i'm not going to think about it though it doesn't mean that like i'm not going to talk about it on a podcast when

Starting point is 02:53:36 i get access to people like you who think about this stuff you know what i mean it's not so much that that you know i'm okay with people on a mass scale not thinking about it. I do wish more people thought about it. But on an individual basis across people, I'm not going to judge people for that. That's one place where like some level of ignorance is bliss is not the worst thing in the world. It's not like everyone can wake up to think about and prioritize all the same things that we do. But it doesn't make it any less stressful for me because I do think about and prioritize all the same things that we do but it doesn't make it any less stressful for me because i do think about it right you know it doesn't make it any less like

Starting point is 02:54:11 wow what is it all to me and i get through conversations like this on air and off air i get what's the word like energized from what from ideas people bring to the table like some of the things you've said today now i'm'm going to fucking think about all that. And it's like, you know, it does all somehow come back to the core meaning of, well, what is the meaning of all of it? Pun intended. Yeah. You know? And so I do think about, like, what is God?

Starting point is 02:54:40 What is that? You know, obviously Einstein thought about it. He was a lot smarter than me. And, you know, we wouldn't have religion if lots of people weren't thinking about it yeah and so the way people approach it in their own life has a lot to do with how they're dealing with reality and also it has a lot to do with their own inner journey that's none of our business yes and so we can't go out and and blanketly say well people aren't paying attention to that stuff because we don't know that yeah and and to judge them for that you know i've i've learned it's it's been very hard for me to draw the line between what is judgment and what is observation. And, and I realized there's nothing wrong with observation. Like if, if, if we went out last

Starting point is 02:55:16 night and you went on a bender and couldn't show up, well, I'd say, you know, that guy drinks too much and it's messing up is the way he's doing things. That's not a judgment. That's an observation. If I, if I say, well, that guy's drinking too much, he's messing up is the way he's doing things that's not a judgment that's an observation if i if i say well that guy's drinking too much he's messing up what he's doing things and that and and that makes him this that is judgment but just just observation there's nothing wrong with observing you know and and people have a hard time understanding that it's two different things you know you can you can you know jeffrey dahmer like to eat people okay that's an observation yes jeffrey dahmer like to eat people but it's so evil that's a judgment yes so there's nothing wrong with observing and even saying what you observed that is not judgment and so you're not judgmental because of that you're observant because of that yeah and and and

Starting point is 02:56:01 so that's an important distinction it's an important distinction that I don't think a lot of people get, which that's a judgment. Right around the circle, man. I know, it's crazy. No, but you bring up the religion point in there a little bit. We haven't really talked about this today. We talked about it with Congressman Tim Burkett. Yeah, Tim Burchett. Burchett, yeah, a little bit. But one of the things that really surprised me

Starting point is 02:56:27 when I did the two podcasts with James Fox, because that was the first time on this podcast where we had delved into the phenomenon and, you know, ufology and things like that. But I'm very active in my community and in the comment section. I love to see what people are thinking, good, bad, and indifferent. And one of the i i get a good feel for just you know a a sample size of what types of people are watching the content who interacts with it and the one thing that shocked me when i was going through a lot of the comments on those episodes is that and i don't have to get into how i figured this out but some of them were even blatant about it where they were saying it but a significant number of people who interact with this content and then even looking at other content on the

Starting point is 02:57:15 internet to look through comment sections and see if the patterns exist there which they did a significant number of people who are highly highly interested in this content are extremely religious and to be even more frank about it extremely seemingly christian religious and i would have never expected that because you know you look at the bible and stuff and like it's supposed to be like god son of man jesus like right all this and there's no room there's like you were talking about this earlier was made off podcast but like it's like angels and demons and that's it right and there's not really the room for the aliens but the Tim Burchard example where he's a guy who looks at the Bible is

Starting point is 02:57:57 potentially having mm-hmm having some draws to aliens and then my little sample size looking here of commenters on the internet and seeing that a lot of people seem to think this maybe without saying it as blatantly out loud like that that is fascinating to me because it makes me think that people even who maybe you wouldn't give this credit to are more open-minded than we than we think well there's multi-facets to this the the the fundamental fundamental religious belief systems versus the, you know, the non human intelligence question. So one thing that Lou Elizondo told me, and that he's told this to other people, and he said it in the show unidentified, one of the biggest things, surprisingly, that he ran into, with opposition within the Pentagon within the Defense Department

Starting point is 02:58:43 to the work that he was doing is that there was a very large contingent of people that believed that this was a demonic force as in demons that and that we shouldn't be doing it we shouldn't be investigating it we shouldn't be poking the tiger in the eye and that that was not just a little voice in the pentagon this was a huge group of people. Wait, they thought the phenomenon that was being witnessed was demons? Yes. Within the military establishment, within the Pentagon, within DOD, there was a large number of people that opposed his work because they thought from a very, very fundamentalist viewpoint that we're dealing with demonic activity.

Starting point is 02:59:23 And that it actually affected his ability to move forward and get funding it was it was one of the biggest oppositions that he said he ran into and and he said that to me i have it he said it on tv shows you can find him saying it on the show unidentified so this is not something that i'm just making up and then you have the other side of the spectrum where you have like tim Burchett, who is, Tim is a Christian man. He's a Republican. He's a representative for the state of Tennessee. Very, very salt of the earth, very, you know, conservative views.

Starting point is 02:59:53 But when I sat down and interviewed him, his feeling was, you know, if you look in the Bible and you look at Ezekiel building the wheel, there's a lot of people that think that that was a spaceship and and that's okay and so you know there's another wing of of christianity that is okay with the idea the pope you know the catholic church came out a few years ago and said there's probably life on other planets it's okay it does it doesn't even know that i should know that no they made an official proclamation really yeah yeah and, yeah. Fuck, I missed that. Yeah, they did. It wasn't this pope. It was the one before. But they acknowledged that there's probably life on it. Benny did it?

Starting point is 03:00:30 Yeah. There's probably life on other planets and that it's all right. And so we have official religion willing to entertain it. And I did a podcast on some show, and I didn't realize I was on a completely Christian fundamental channel. And the guy's like, no, it's angels and demons we're not witnessing there is no nuts and bolts aliens and i'm like dude i will give you that there might be spiritual forces that are at play here and and i have no problem with that but i i'm not gonna say that that's to the exclusion of there being other things at play and they were just right down that just absolutely not this is all there's humans and there's angels and demons

Starting point is 03:01:10 good and evil yeah and so i find that challenging yeah you know because i was willing to concede that that you know part of his belief system as far as what he was seeing yes had some validity possibly i certainly wasn't going to rule it out, but the idea that there's all kinds of things going on in this universe and we don't know any of them, very few beyond our own little planet, and to say that the spiritual answer of this biblical thing is the only answer to what we're seeing,

Starting point is 03:01:39 I just thought that that was sad. And when I found out about stuff going on inside the Defense Department along those lines, I was shocked. And I talked to John Brandenburg about it. That blows my mind that that happened. Yeah. It really did. And John Brandenburg, who's a researcher who's done a lot of work about Mars, he told me the same thing. He was working under classification as a physicist for a long time and he said yeah there's

Starting point is 03:02:05 a there's a there's a big contingent that that fundamental religion extreme fundamental religion is governing what we are investing our energy and our time in see and i'm always very very careful about saying this because i want to be clear i i respect people who have religion as a core part of their life and i believe you know somewhere in the neighborhood of probably 90 percent of people use it for all the beautiful things and i love it that 10 can kind of ruin it for everyone starting every goddamn war around the world for one thing yeah yeah and also you know then you have the people who you know they're certainly allowed to believe what they believe but then when they're when they shut you down

Starting point is 03:02:50 from even introducing something especially when you're giving them concessions like hey yeah you might be right about this or what the fuck do i know and they're still like no no it's this or it's that that's where you know i try to just back off and say okay you know just leave the conversation they're going to believe what they're going to believe don't let it affect you but it does piss me off sometimes because i'm like what do you know right have you been there did you go were you there for the big bang everybody can say that and you know but i think the key to to all the religions is at least you're acknowledging you know a fundamental spiritual aspect to to who and what you are

Starting point is 03:03:22 but so am i yes And just because I'm not going to drink the Kool-Aid that you're, that you're giving me with exactly what you're telling me it has to be in their house and there's no other way. I can't do that. I'm on my own journey. I can't take your word for anything. And so, and there's nothing wrong with that. And there's nothing wrong with what you're telling me. It's just that I'm going to make up my own mind. And it doesn't mean that, that it's really frustrating when, when you're telling me it's just that i'm going to make up my own mind and it doesn't mean that that it's really frustrating when when you're you know you're a good person you have somebody who professes that you're a good person telling you what a bad person you are yes it's like give me a break yeah yeah i mean exception to the rule i i want to highlight

Starting point is 03:04:01 that like i do view that as more of an exception it it is frustrating when you run into it though i i i share your opinion completely there but like in doing all this and you know you said you started working on this in 2007 you were interested in it long before that it does as we've said i don't know 10 times now it does come back to meaning of life type things when you're talking about extraterrestrial life and stuff like that but like do you personally like what are your thoughts on where it all begins? Do you believe in a God or are you unsure? Well, you know, there's a lot of definitions of what God is, right?

Starting point is 03:04:35 That is it some dude sitting on a throne, you know, ruling over everybody is, oh, here, have a lightning strike. You know, I don't know. I think that there is certainly a conscious force that might be self-aware of its own larger scale but is that the same exact thing that we define as god or is it this kind of collective energy of who knows you know like a sea of love that was everything before there was anything i I mean, obviously, the contemporary thinking,

Starting point is 03:05:07 even among scientists, is that physical reality springs from consciousness, not the other way around. And we explore that in the movie. If consciousness sprang from reality, then that would mean that physical reality is the root of existence. And we're finding out scientifically that that's not the case. And the most ancient religions teach us the same thing.

Starting point is 03:05:24 All of them, even biblical religion, teaches us that this world not the case. And the most ancient religions teach us the same thing. All of them, even biblical religion teaches us that this world is an illusion. And it's stated very clearly. So if consciousness doesn't spring forth from this world, then it springs forth from somewhere, which is this sea of conscious energy. If you want to call that God you can call that God I call it God sometimes you know I'm not saying I'm just not sure that there's like like we're getting so much attention that you know can you imagine if if every aspect of our lives and it goes back to rather we're making conscious decisions or not how much supervision would it take to to superv, rather, you're going to buy a Sprite or a Diet Coke and keep that under consideration and keep tabs of it, you know, so that we can sentence you to hell when it's all over.

Starting point is 03:06:13 But you're thinking about it in terms of time and effort when that may not exist at that level of spiritual consciousness. Well, that's, yeah, I think consciousness, you know, is all that is. Just like in the very beginning of the first books of the Bible, I am that I am. And so if you want to call God the sum of all conscious energy that we are all a part of, I don't think that's in any diametric opposition to what even the Bible teaches us. So do I believe that there's a God? Of course. You can't believe that you survive the life of your physical body without believing there's something else. Do you think that when, do you have any opinions

Starting point is 03:06:49 on what happens when you die? There seems to be a pretty good body of evidence that consciousness survives death and that a lot of people have, you know, these experiences that are all very similar to the near-death experiences. The people that come back tell very similar stories so you know do i believe that when i shut my eyes for the last time on this planet that there's no part of me that's ever going to be exist again not for a minute i'm totally convinced i think i'm with you you know i'll tell you something we were talking about the multiverse thing sorry yeah um this guy came up with this thing called quantum jumping. His name was Bert Goldman. And it's about 20 years ago that he was making the rounds with his thing, you know, just like a, you know, metaphysical thing that you're doing.

Starting point is 03:07:37 So his theory that he would say to people is that there is another version of you existing in multiple realities, which you were kind of talking about, and that these realities all exist. Now, Burke Goldman said that you can quantum jump, that through certain meditation techniques and certain mental exercises and certain visualization exercises, you can actually connect with these other versions of yourself and you can bring something back from them okay is this like man in the high castle type stuff if you ever saw that yeah kind of read that yeah but but but he's saying that you can do it for real and he pointed to the fact that he was not a painter and he started using this technique and all of a sudden he could paint because there was another version of him that could paint so about the time when the pandemic hit come on 12 inch dick let's go

Starting point is 03:08:36 that's that's that's quantum jumping on steroids. Damn, it works. Come on. Grow. Shit. I'm sorry. I couldn't let that one go. Damn, and I was using it for something else. If that worked, we'd just have a... Who cares about painting?

Starting point is 03:09:04 That was good. that worked we just have a who cares about painting anyway quantum jumping you were talking about the painter stick with the okay so this guy said that he was able to come back from another reality with with some of the talent from his other version of himself and i've thought that was kind of interesting when the pandemic hit when I was a kid I thought I was going to be a rock star I was all about music and then my instruments got ripped off I ended up having to leave home at a young age and the whole thing got sidetracked but during the pandemic I picked the guitar back up and was and decided to start doing it well I've been playing this quantum jumping thing I've been doing some of the exercises okay in less than two years I've been doing some of the exercises, okay? In less than two years, I've gone from barely being able to play the guitar.

Starting point is 03:09:47 I believe that there's another version of myself that made a go of music, and I've been trying to tap into that. And the progress I've made is off the charts. I'm getting ready to go out as a professional singer. I'm in a band that is being formed, and I'm getting ready to go out as a professional singer. I'm in a band that is being formed, and I'm getting ready to cut an album at 60. Where the fuck do you have time for this?

Starting point is 03:10:10 This is amazing. Well, when I finished the movie, I decided to spend some time on music. Wow. But I've been actually doing these exercises, and sometimes I've got a singing coach, and she'll come over and we'll be doing stuff, and she's like,

Starting point is 03:10:22 it should have taken you six months to get to that point you did it in a week and this should this is happening it's happening to me right now and i'm doing those experiments with connecting with yourself i don't know if it works but i've made a conscious effort to get in touch with this other part of me and and and and i'm getting i'm getting better because at my age not doing music your whole life oh it's hard you have to be able to you got you're gonna have to make miraculous progress or give it up and i'm i'm making some pretty serious progress that could be i wonder if that's like a serious self-belief based on believing in that this could exist or if it's a combination of both but either way that's pretty trippy quantum jumping quantum jumping i'm not saying that it works i'm not

Starting point is 03:11:10 saying there's anything to it i'm just saying that that that i've as a musician i've made probably 10 years progress in in two years and what's next for you are you are you making another documentary well i'm gonna i'm gonna do one's going to be, see, the three topics that I've decided to cover in my career were the E.T. question, the life after death question, and then the nature of reality. I've got dozens of productions all around those three things. So the next real doc that I'm going to do is going to be about life after death. And I'm going to combine, I've done three ghost documentaries about ghost hunting, you know, electronic voice phenomenon, haunted houses, walking around with cameras and people go, Oh, that freaked me out.

Starting point is 03:11:50 So I'm going to combine that with all of the interviews I've shot with the key NDE people, Eben Alexander, Marjorie Willicott, Jeffrey Olson, just pretty much anybody that's written a bestseller about near death experiences. I've interviewed them and I've just been sitting on this stuff for a while and then i'm going to combine that with everything that we're learning about consciousness surviving death and then the third in the series is going to be unveiling you know what is the nature of reality and are we in this oh i am i'm so there's three loosely affiliated films that are going to culminate in my key documentaries but at the same time i'm working on an animated series about mars and the spacex universe when i did accidental truth are you quantum jumping between the different versions of you to get all the time no i just it's all i do

Starting point is 03:12:36 wow you know and and it's like um because i don't do anything else i just work where can where can people get the documentary amazon apple everywhere yeah it's it's all over um yeah accidental truth accidental truth ufo revelations forgot to mention that it's narrated by matthew modine who oh yeah yeah uh um the dr brandon and the metal jacket guy right full metal jacket yeah stranger things and he's coming out in the new oppenheimer movie oh very cool i can't wait for this he plays van over bush in the oppenheimer movie van over bush was supposedly a member of nj-12 the group that was put together to study the whole thing so all right well that's i can't wait for that movie too like that's going to be

Starting point is 03:13:19 it's going to be really good unreal and i heard it's like three hours but this i will put the links to this in the description yeah you can go to accidentaltruths.com and that's where you can get the t-shirt if you want so I'll put that as well so and also rent the movie very cool but yeah get the movie it's it's highly highly informative you did a great job and I really enjoyed this man thank you for coming out from Arizona and now you got the shirt and now I got the shirt thank you for the shirt too no I'm really stoked that you brought me on because the you're reaching a whole other demographic of people than the ones that i'm going to reach

Starting point is 03:13:51 through like mufon or any of those other things we didn't talk about mufon um we talked about it a little but we didn't like go all the way there we can talk about that next time we could do that next time but you know there's one other thing before we wrap up it's a question that we probably the biggest question of the entire interview and and i do understand how important it is and so you know let's just dive right in what what does it say on that cup right there do aliens drink i don't know if they drink anything i spent you know next to the nature of my own existence this is probably the question i spend the most time on do they drink yeah i mean i ask everybody i asked the stewardess on the plane the other day she cut me off i don't know i've heard sometimes they have a mouth other times yeah they have a mouth they don't sometimes some people think they could they can drink blood

Starting point is 03:14:40 with their fingers and they you know all kinds of crazy stuff but you know i think that the fact that they found our planet at least the person flying the spaceship must have been drinking because you wouldn't land on purpose that is true that might be true you might be on to something there ron thanks for doing it man all right man i appreciate it we'll do it again everybody else everybody else you know what it is give it a go who you get back to me

Your Ad Here

Julian Dorey Podcast - 😱 [VIDEO] - Secret Pentagon Insiders Fear UFOs are Biblical Demons | Ron James • #151

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.