Julian Dorey Podcast - 🤔 [VIDEO] - Young Thug's Really A Gang Leader? | Kevin Gallagher • #116

Episode Date: September 8, 2022

(***TIMESTAMPS in Description Below) ~ Kevin Gallagher (aka “The Miami Lawyer”) is a maritime attorney based in Miami, Florida. In addition to the law, he is also an expert in rap music. ***TIMESTAMPS*** 0:00 - Intro; The Young Thug / YSL Case Breakdown 31:12 - The government’s use of rap lyrics in Case vs. Young Thug / YSL 49:10 - Convicting innocent people; The (actual) appeals process after conviction; Eyewitness Testimony & Cross-Racial Identification 1:17:21 - The Insys Pharma Case 1:25:23 - The outlook for Young Thug’s Trial 1:32:08 - Fetty Wap’s trafficking case; The Story Behind Fetty’s Fall In The Music Industry; The story of the kid who opened for Wap on Tour 2:00:08 - Meek Mill leaves Roc Nation; Ben Simmons trade post-mortem talk 2:16:19 - The Henry Ruggs Case 2:28:53 - The French Government’s deal w/ energy companies; The latest trends in China ~ YouTube EPISODES & CLIPS: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0A-v_DL-h76F75xik8h03Q ~ Get $150 Off The Eight Sleep Pod Pro Mattress / Mattress Cover (USING CODE: “TRENDIFIER”): https://eight-sleep.ioym.net/trendifier PRIVADO VPN FOR $4.99/Month: https://privadovpn.com/trendifier/#a_aid=Julian Julian's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey ~ Beat provided by: https://freebeats.io Music Produced by White Hot Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

He ran an infinity, and then that infinity was, like, involved in a murder. They got hit with a Rico charge, right? So I was looking into this case. Rico, I think he came out in the 80s to combat the mafia. In that scenario, all right, Rico seems a bit more just than it does going after Young Thug because his fucking, like, Uber driver, like, did something shady. This is a whole other argument that's that's happening i believe in different states now where they're trying to say you can't use rap lyrics in court all right i'll give you the breakdown how probative and let's

look at a song lyric where he's like i shoot i shoot that boy i shot that boy i keep that thing on me how much does that tend to prove whether Young Thug actually committed a shooting versus... Europe energy crisis. Did you hear what's happening in France? No. They're nationalizing their power companies. Alright. Socialism in France.

You have my... About to fucking happen. Alright. That's coke. Dord, you're gonna put... Are you putting dry snitching allegations on feddywop right now what's cooking everybody i am joined in the bunker today by my friend kevin gallagher aka the miami lawyer gallagher rolled through to break down everything on the young thug case which if you don't know is a 56 count rico indictment against the rapper and other alleged associates in georgia that seems quite suspect so

we got deeper to that we also talked about the end of the fetty wap case which now has a conclusion on fetty waps and at least talked a bit about henry ruggs got into a company that was in the middle of the fentanyl crisis as well in the case that was brought against them and finally also talked about china because gallagher is one of my go-to china guys so a lot in this episode love having the homie through and i hope you guys enjoy if you are on youtube right now please hit that subscribe button hit that like button on the video and i would love to hear from you guys down in the comments section as well to everyone who's been sharing the episodes thank you let's keep that well to everyone who's been sharing the episodes

Thank you. Let's keep that rolling to everyone who is on Apple or Spotify right now Thank you for checking out the show over there If you haven't already be sure to leave a five-star review on either one of those platforms That is a huge huge help and I really really appreciate you guys checking out the show Finally if you have not gotten your 8 sleep pod pro cover yet What are you doing the 8 sleep pod Pro cover comes in queen or king sizes. It goes right on top of your current mattress, and it is wired directly into Eight Sleep's proprietary app, which measures your sleep stages throughout the night to optimize your sleep around you.

As I like to say, you'll sleep six hours and feel like you slept eight. So if you use that link in my description, along with the code TRENDIFIER at checkout, that's T-R-E-N-D-I-F-I-E-R, you will get $150 off your own 8 Sleep Pod Pro cover today, and you will begin sleeping the best you ever have in your life. I promise you, you're going to love it. That said, you know what it is. I'm Julian Dury. This is Trendifier. And please welcome my friend, Kevin Gallagher. You know, I keep looking at all these cases coming up.

I feel like the whole fucking government's going after all the greatest rappers. I don't know what's going on here. Yeah, it's kind of wild. They put my boy Pooh in prison, free Pooh, absolutely innocent of all crimes that he did. I don't know why, you know, they tried. He took a plea deal, but. Right, but they pressured him into that. I think that he maintains his innocence.

He's on video both cases listen listen that's neither here nor there i think he maintains his innocence that guy was in the wrong the security guard shouldn't have been there who's sheisty thinks he's innocent i'm pretty sure he thinks he's enjoying either way all right we're gonna let that one go but the one that i'm really looking at right now is the one that's actively ongoing which is the whole young thug thing so this one really surprised me because young thug you know i'm gonna have you explain the case in the details here but young thug is known as within the industry as a guy who is in addition to be connected across connected across

different genres he's somebody that puts people on he's he's built not just his own platform as like an artist but he's got a platform for other artists extremely well liked and this you know this whole thing that went down that you're going to explain it was like it's a shock to me and i don't really know what to think of it yeah so first of all to to your point where i like brings people together he is one of those like rare artists in hip-hop that's kind of like, I don't want to say genre-bending because I feel like that's an overused term, but he is in a sense, right? Because he has weird songs where he'll sing a lot,

and he'll use different melodies and all this stuff, and you certainly can't box him in. So that had a lot of broad appeal because a lot of people who just might like your typical you know just like you know spit 16 bars and then a hook like type rapper like he was he was going off on on his own thing and doing it creatively but also still coming with the bars because at the end of the day you gotta have bars you know what i mean that's true that's true but um yeah man so him and gunna got hit with a rico charge oh gunna too i almost yeah yeah yeah yeah gunna arguably i'm more into gunna man i love

gunna gunna's great yeah i think he's super talented um but yeah they got hit with a rico charge right so i was looking into this case um rico i guess i can break it's racketeering racketeering uh influential influential uh corrupt organizations i think that's what it is yeah i'm not sure what the acronym is but i think it was i think it came about in the 80s to um it's a federal statute originally to combat the mafia right you robert blakey wrote it okay yeah it wass, right? It was either the early 80s or late 70s. I know he was working on it in the 70s. Same difference. Exactly what you said is right.

Yeah. All right. So it was aimed with combating the Mafia because the problem with prosecuting the Mafia was like, you know all these guys have this criminal enterprise and you know they're doing all these things to keep this criminal enterprise, but you you can't you know they're so separate you have this this hand doing this this hand doing that that it's like you can't you know really go after the beast you can only take down these like low-level guys and it was just hard because a guy talks to a guy who orders another guy and then it's done and it's like they don't record this shit exactly so um rico tried to

get to the heart of that right so in a rico case and this is a federal case and there's um the young thug and gunner actually charged with the rico statute under uh uh georgia the georgia has their own state statute that's modeled after the federal statute really yeah wait that's interesting i didn't know that yeah i mean i don't think it's that significant i just wanted to clarify i'm sure it's materially the same like i'm sure it's pretty much the same there aren't a lot of states that have their own right i think there are actually i think there are there are i'll have to look at that i have no idea about that but that's i didn't realize that i thought it was i thought this thought this was, you know what? I knew it was a Georgia case, but in my head, for some reason, until this moment where you bring it up, I kept on thinking from like a

federal standpoint because they were throwing around the word RICO. Yeah. I mean, it's, so I'm, I'm assuming it's the same, right? Because it probably is because states have, laws are so much more similar than states than they are different. You can basically... I don't know anything about Tennessee law, but I can guess it's probably 95% the same as Florida law, the same as Pennsylvania law.

People do things the same. But anyway, on a RICO charge, if you're being prosecuted for a RICO crime, basically the government wants to prove, one, that you're if you're being prosecuted for a rico crime basically the government wants to prove um one that you're part of this gang and that well one that like this gang exists and that you're a member of this gang so what are they accusing young thug though he's the head of a gang ysl ysl is a gang i don't know why i YSL is. We'll get to that, but continue with the things. I know Young Stoner Life, maybe that's what it stands for.

I'll clarify that. You continue with the things that Rico goes at. But yeah, basically, you want to, you allege that there is this gang that exists, this criminal enterprise, and that the person you're charging is a member of this criminal enterprise and when you have that um the way that rico is written basically any act by any member of this gang or criminal enterprise that's in furtherance of this gang any criminal act um any member of this gang can be charged with basically right so like think about it this way it's kind of crazy you and i we get together um and we say yo we're gonna form this gang we're gonna do bad shit we're gonna do criminal shit me kevin and julian like all right we're gonna like rob

stores we're gonna do like whatever we form it tonight we shake hands we form the gang then we're like all right peace i'm going home whatever see you're like all right i'm chilling in my house then i go and do some shit that i don't even talk to you about that you don't know about that you didn't explicitly agree to so say we just say we're going to form this criminal gang we're going to do hood shit but then i say you know what as i'm driving home i'm like i want to rob this liquor store. I'm doing it for the gang of Kevin and Julian, and I robbed this liquor store, and I objectively am doing it for the gang, then you can be charged with that.

How do they determine that, though? I mean, it's hard to determine. I mean, you have to determine. So, like, we're talking about, like, state of mind and, like, circumstantial evidence and all that shit. So it's like, it's, you know know it's not easy to determine you can't read someone's mind but like there are ways you can determine that hypothetically though let's use that same example you did if i what was it rob a grocery store you said a liquor store a liquor

store okay so if i rob a liquor store and i'm doing it they're trying to say you're doing it for the gang of kevin and julian yeah if or if you rob it as you If you rob it, as you said, you rob it, you then bring the bounty back to our pad. Well, that's, so that would be good circumstantial evidence. Yeah, that's, I mean, again, you know, there's no, we could go through a million hypotheticals, but yeah, that would be something that would be good evidence, right? If I told you about it after the fact and you didn uh reprimand me if if there's a bunch of stuff like that so as far as the young thug case one of the main things is there's this murder that took place in like i think 2014 or 2015 where young thug rented a um a vehicle he rented like a

i think it was like an infinity or something and he's you know you don't know about i know what you're talking about yeah yeah so explain this all right so i guess i'm getting it right uh he ran it an infinity um he signed like the contract whatever and that's some of the documents the prosecutors are using and then that infinity was like involved in a murder and they're trying to say and then there's an informant that's saying that he like young thug like confessed about it how was it involved in a murder like a getaway car or something yeah i think it was just like they pulled up on someone and they got out and shot him or they shot him from the vehicle and then they pulled away but it was like involved in a murder quick question in the middle of this yeah do you think that like, you know how the music industry works sometimes, okay?

Yeah. These guys. Well, not really. I mean, I know because I'm just a fan. It depends what parts of it you're looking at or whatever, but within rap, it's a common theme that guys will make it out of the worst neighborhood and props them for doing it. And they got a lot of friends. Maybe some of the friends aren't involved in great stuff, but those are their boys.

They hang around the studio while they're recording and having fun it's a part of the vibe by the way some of your favorite songs ever made that's how it's getting made guys are sitting around the studio there's 20 of them in there they're friends since they were kids only one of them's the actual rapper or two of them whatever they make a song is the thing that my mind's been going to in this and you would know because you chilled in the studio with monty yeah great time great time good guys but but like the the thing my mind went to with this is that what if they're because the label is literally called like what one of his labels i guess it's called like ysl youngster in life by the way that's why i checked out what it stands for i thought it was because of that then they try to say, well, oh, then these gang members who he may have grown up with and know,

they named a gang allegedly YSL and did all these things in the name of YSL, when in reality, he's sitting there at the studio putting on and passing out bread to his boys or whatever, and then they're going out and doing whatever the fuck they do, and he doesn't have anything to do with it. Yeah, I mean, so I think that's a good argument in defense of Young Thug, because I think you would just, yeah, I think that's exactly what you would say. You'd be like, look, he's a, you know, multi, you know, platinum, I'm assuming he's multi-platinum musician. He's, he's doing all this stuff. He just like has people around him at all times. And he, you know, he cannot be responsible or even know, or has no, like, he's not formed any criminal,

like enterprise with these people. He's just, you know, he came from an area where, you know, some, some people maybe don't have the best intentions at all times and maybe you know come from a different comes from a different way of life and maybe associates with these people whatever knows these people hot maybe even like hires some of these people but it doesn't mean that he's he's like some orchestrator or some member of some gang and i think that's like to me think that's going to play well in front of a jury. I think that the prosecutors are, they're super gung ho right now. But I think like you get a jury of your peers in front of you, you know, this is Fulton County, Georgia, which is Atlanta. I think you get people in Atlanta. They're like, yeah, I don't think Young Thug is, you know, some like criminal mastermind.

So that's my, that's my thoughts on that um i don't think look he's how does he have time to do any of this stuff too that's what i'm saying bro like they're making him out to be now look in in fairness if we're gonna be fair and balanced here when they did this whole raid or whatever it was same day where they went to all these guys houses including young thug yeah they found stuff in his house they shouldn't have and he got charged with some of that and he'll have it's the kind of stuff where if that was the only charge he'd probably work out like some probation community service some sort of little record whatever and things would get under the rug and it's not a good look but like, all right, a rapper owning some guns is not – that's not the first time I ever heard that one.

But they just tack that on to everything else, and I'm looking at this and I'm going – it's not completely implausible that he could be a part of said conspiracy like i can't say it's impossible but yeah like why why even though he has power as a celebrity with a lot of money in the music business why the fuck would some of these guys even put up with him allegedly taking these enormous cuts when clearly you know his mind's not even in the job half the time at least like some of it just doesn't it doesn't add up to me it doesn't add up man like the whole thing with the rental car like i mean you're a rapper you have like an entourage whatever like you you like you give the keys to whoever you know and they give them to whoever and then like they were trying to say like they have this like cell phone data data excuse me um oh really i don't know about this i think i read something

about like they were trying to like pinpoint his like cell phone location the like with this particular murder how many cell phones does young thug have seriously like i have one cell phone but i'm not a i'm not young thug i'm not a rapper i would he probably has a few cell phones right did i have i would maybe a few is excessive he probably gets a couple. He probably has a few cell phones, right? Did he have... I would say maybe a few is excessive. I'd say he's got a couple. He probably gets a new cell phone every month, honestly. He's got a couple. Right?

So, like, what does that even mean? You know what I mean? Like, I just think it's all... It's all... Maybe if this evidence were... If I rented a car and then someone did a murder with it, then, yeah, maybe it'd be like, why did someone murder someone with the car you just rented? And, it's gonna be hard for me to explain that but young thug he's like traveling

touring doing all this stuff he's got like people hitting him up he's got different cell phones different cars i don't know i think it's a it's uh i think it's it's pretty easy to defend from that avenue now i haven't seen all the facts i don't know but and and i don't even know how gunna is tied up in this i have there's not much about gunna yeah there really isn't like no one really knows anything he just got arrested with it and he's been attached to young thugs label well that's the whole thing like exactly like if you can just prove as i understand rico if you can just like prove or like you just allege that he's a member of this gang then they're all then they're all liable for all the activities of every member that's in furtherance of this gang here which is crazy rico's super

broad it's like crazy broad and people don't realize how like how broad it is and like how much power the like government yields when they they come down you with that rico it's it's a very impressively put together legal maneuver and i fully understand like g robert blakey is i always forget if it's blakey or blakely i hope i didn't get that wrong but i don't even know who that is he's a you actually should know who that is you usually know who like everyone is in law but that's a guy he's i think he's a professor now and one of the maybe cornell something like that but he's he wrote the wiretaps law too like he's been he's been around but that dude when he was writing that law you know it's hard for us to maybe remember well not remember it we weren't alive but you know this was in the night he was working on it in the 1970s when the italian

american mafia had their grip on the entire fucking country you know they were everywhere and they couldn't take these guys down because they couldn't get as you were pointing out earlier from the soldier to the boss everyone knew la cosa nostra existed everyone knew that carlo gambino and fucking uh fucking frank costello and before that lucky luciano and al capone like these guys were clearly calling shots they were part of a gang that came from another country the same country came here did their thing but they couldn't prove it in court so they made it and this is what allowed them in the late 70s 80s and early 90s all the way from the donnie brasco raid where he

was undercover with with the Bananos for a long time and almost became a made guy and then all the way through John Gotti being found guilty in I guess like 92 or 93 this is what allowed all that to happen sure right so in a way it's clearly a brilliant maneuver for something that was absolutely a problem and i'm not a lawyer i haven't sat there and read the minutiae of it but i do wonder how much of it can then get stretched to other things that it wasn't created for yeah that then you know that's exactly what i was thinking you you think of rico and it was aimed for this la cosa nostra right so what did you have to do to be a member of this gang you had to like you had to work your way up for years like gain the trust of everyone in the families and then you

had to have this like formal ceremony where you like draw blood and you're like you're you know you're in this thing of ours whatever till you die whatever and that's like a hard like entry point right and at that point it's like you you basically are agreeing to like i'll do whatever for this family and like whatever they do is on me so like in that scenario i'm not saying i don't necessarily agree with rico but i'm just saying in that scenario all right rico seems a bit more just than it does going after young thug because he's fucking like Uber driver, like did something shady. You know what I mean? Hey, guys, if you're enjoying this episode, please be sure to share it around on social media and with your friends.

Sharing the show is the best possible way we can get this thing to grow. So thank you to every single one of you who have been doing that each week. And thank you to all of you who are going to do it now. Yeah, yeah, that sounded like when I heard that part, it sounded circumstantial. There was, there's like all kinds of news. Like if you look behind you, there's shit like this that's floating around that I can't even verify. Like the whole got recorded on wiretap after police helped an inmate sneak a cell phone into jail. Like there were all kinds of entrapment things going on that sometimes, by the way, are because the cops do have the detectives have

great evidence that this is happening and then they just need to get the actual physical evidence like a wiretap so sometimes it's perfectly fair other times it can paint a picture of somebody or force someone into a situation that looks sketchy and like with wiretaps i've cited this a bunch of times on the podcast but like the judge in the raj raj ratnam case after it was over had a quote that's like pretty telling where he first of all he should have never let those wiretaps stay in that case that's a different story but he was being asked about it in the media afterwards and he said yeah it is a tough one because he's like especially when you're wiretapping someone for a long time you get to go through thousands of hours of tapes and it's very

easy to find a quote take it out of context where you say i'm coming over for dinner at my mom's house at five o'clock and you sound guilty as fuck of something right code word or something and so i again i look at this one and that there seems to be you know there's a wiretap element to it and everything and it feels like it feels shotgun because the other thing and this part you're really gonna have to help me with but it when you look through the actual like specifics of it I'm looking at Vulture right now. So it says, all 28 individuals named in the indictment were charged with conspiracy to violate the State RICO Act or by participating in a pattern of illegal activity to obtain money and property. The Georgia law, as you said, this is correctorgia law closely resembles its federal counterpart and was

created with the aim of ensnaring large criminal organizations like the mafia is the mafia even in fucking georgia they're not even in georgia and that's bullshit i'm sure they were they had their hand they had two people in there at a fucking strip club hanging out anyway taking bets according to the times this is not the first time willis has sought RICO charges. No, there was a poor... Fuck. Oh, here it is. This is what I want. The 56 count indictment claims that YSL members were involved in murder, attempted murder, armed robbery, aggravated assault with a deadly weapon,

theft, drug dealing, carjacking, and witness intimidation. Notably, the indictment portrays Thug, young Thug, as something of a mob boss. He is alleged to have committed multiple crimes that he is not being charged with while thug is not being charged for these quote-unquote overt acts unquote which include possession of methamphetamine with the intent to distribute and threatening to he probably had an adderall case and threatening to kill a man at a mall they line credence to the allegation that the collective was engaged in a criminal conspiracy so that's very interesting they are not charging him with the things that they are speaking about publicly and saying this is why we're charging with rico but they're charging other people with those specific crimes and because those crimes happen they're at the

same time without charging young thug trying to say but you're responsible for it yes um i'm not sure if i understand what you just said say that one more time yeah that was convoluted that wasn't a good explanation so publicly they're saying young thug is this mob boss he's the head of this whole conspiracy sure the connotation is everything that happens probably came from him therefore he's responsible for all of it just like when we see these mafia bosses go to prison for their whole life for murder. They never pulled the trigger. They ordered it, right? But in the charges, unlike in those cases where they charged those mafia guys with a full RICO act where the – I believe they make the language like murder and whatever. In this case, they're not – it says specifically they're not charging young thug

with any that they're just charging him with some of the counts on the actual rico laws to say like oh he's just very very involved therefore instead of like some of the mob bosses who were looking at life in prison he's not but he's still looking at a serious case here. Does that make sense? Yeah, I just took it as it's easier to build the case that he is part of this gang if you just name all these. So when you have criminal information or indictment, whatever, you make allegations. You put a numbered list of Young Thug is alleged to have done this, whatever so i i just took it as like they're just putting all this stuff on there just to kind of like paint the picture that he is involved with this this ysl gang um and like it just further

adds uh credence to that uh to that allegation without necessarily saying like all right like we're gonna mention that he did all this this shit with the methamphetamines and like whatever but we're not gonna like actually charge him with that but like that's just gonna further paint the picture it's just more like surrounding evidence that's just like he's this figure that's how i took it i don't know from what i just read there i could be missing the mark but no because there's still a lot we don't know so we have to hedge you know we're gonna there's no case that's been made in court yet we're just hearing the original indictment and allegations

and there's more shit coming out but like you know they also didn't grant him bail yeah i was just i was damn you read my mind i was just about to say that. Interesting you didn't get bail. So, I'll break that down basically. Please. Again, I don't know Georgia law specifically, but I know three states, enough states. There's two purposes of bail, right? So, bail is, one purpose is to reasonably assure the defendant's appearance at court right um and then the second purpose of bail is to um protect uh the community at large or specific individuals in the community so like that those are the reasons of um that's not bail that's those are the reasons for like pre-trial detention right right

so um if an individual is charged with the crime you want to make sure that they're going to appear at the next court appearance. And you want to make sure that the community is safe. And if you can assure those things, then they should be allowed to be free until their next court appearance. So, the judge overseeing this case found one of those two things to not be true. Again, this is probably public information. I could probably find this out. But I imagine it was the first one, right? Because he has money, resources.

He can get on a private jet and just dip, right? He's basically like, I imagine Young Thug has a lot of pull and sway in Atlanta. And he can do a private jet and just dip right you know he's he's basically like i imagine young thug has a lot of pull and sway in atlanta and like he can do a lot of things um so they're probably the the prosecution probably argued like all right like you know he's got a lot of money got a lot of resources like we don't know that you know you can assure that he's gonna appear next time but i think does that also depend on when they make that argument and the judge agrees with the prosecution i would imagine the judge is taking into account the nature of the crime so like the prosecution argued the same thing with raj's case because he was worth three

billion dollars and you know could go anywhere at the drop of a hat. But the judge granted – they made the bail fucking $100 million. But he granted him the bail because it wasn't – I assume because it wasn't a violent act. In Young Thug's case, because he's being charged with RICO with the connotation that there's all kinds of violent acts happening below there, does that then make the judge go, you know what? I'm not even going to give a high number for bail because if raj raj ratnam gets away that's fucked up in the judge's mind if he's guilty of this stuff but if young thug gets away like what if he goes and kills somebody based on the allegations yeah i think so i think that was the second uh part like um the safety of the community or like specific individuals so um yeah i guess if someone's

accused of violent crimes like that that would uh that would factor into it certainly um but again it all depends um and there's there's like so many like measures you can take you can do like an ankle monitor you can like surrender your passport you can do like like a lot of different things like uh like house arrest like like there's so many different things that you can do like like a lot of different things like uh like house arrest like like there's so many different things that you can um do the fact that he's sitting in a prison cell is interesting uh it's it's it's super interesting um and it's yeah you know again i didn't i didn't listen to the bail hearing and it can can change. Here's the thing. They can file motions and they can have a second bail hearing if circumstances change.

And they can, you know, move to have, you know, different conditions imposed and have him, we're gonna, whatever, released. But for now, it looks like, yeah, they're still in jail, and they've been in jail for a number of months. So they've tried it twice. Originally in June, I was just pulling this up while you were talking. Originally in June, they weren't granted it, bail, because they were worried about witness intimidation. So that, I mean, that's, again, it covers with the two purposes, reasonably a sure appearance appearance and then safety of community or like specific individuals yeah if there's evidence of like of witness intimidation then that would be

like a textbook reason to say like no yeah you're staying behind bars if that if there's credible evidence and again bail hearings that bear the the evidentiary evidentiary standard at a bail hearing is um it's not like trial so you can just basically like the prosecution can just put someone on the stand and and you know basically uh there's like hearsay evidence comes in all types of evidence comes in right it's not it's not like a regular trial so the evidentiary standard is a lot less so but if i mean there has to be some supporting it you have to have some evidence you can't just say oh he's young thug he's gonna hurt witnesses you got to have some witness you

got to have something some evidence so at some point there there definitely was some evidence that the judge considered and well there's an 88 page indictment where they're saying he's the head of the organization and the evidence that the judge is considering is that they're alleging that he is the head of this organization where then all the crimes that are listed in that indictment, therefore under a RICO statute, point back at him. Yeah. I guess I get that. But like I pulled up the article about the third denial in August that just happened. And this is – it actually took the words out of my mouth because it's the next question I'm going to have for you. So it says, Young Thug has been denied bond release for the third time since he was arrested in May.

During the first two hearings, the presiding judge ruled that Young Thug could not be granted release because of the belief that he holds a commanding position in the gang. The indictment alleges the Grammy award winning rapper was the supposed founder of the atlanta gang ysl since 2012 since then he was denied release because of the judge's fear that he would be tampering with and intimidating witnesses involved in the case and in the recent heated hearing thug's legal team argued this is what i want to ask you about argued that the prosecution attributed the song lyrics that were used by the court to indict him as misrepresented he has been claiming since the previous hearings that he did not write the verses in question now this is where my question is so let's get here and by the way i don't believe him that he didn't write them i also don't care that he wrote them it's fucking rap yeah this is a whole big thing and to support his legal position if in fact he's right i'll say

okay he didn't write him but this is a whole nother argument that's happening i believe in different states now all the time where they're trying to say you can't use rap lyrics in court what the fuck do you think people do they they make they make songs that are based on themes that work for marketing and based on themes that they may have experienced growing up it doesn't mean like just because you say like oh i'm called young thug i'm a thug i'm i'm running the game we ysl baby it doesn't actually like they're probably sitting there sipping on fucking hennessy his boy is in a gang and he's like oh we ysl we out here baby and that's it and now they're trying to say in court oh look he admitted to all his crimes in

his lyrics like is this a realistic thing that they're going to be able to pull this kind of stuff from evidence all right so let me i'll give you the breakdown break it down baby here we go so first what we just read involved using rap lyrics at a bail hearing right so i just what i just said at a bail hearing evidentiary evidentiary why can't i say the word evidentiary i can't either yeah the evidentiary standard is much lower right so you don't need you can hearsay comes in stuff that would normally be too prejudicial too inflammatory for a jury whatever that can come in at a bail hearing it's like a grand jury versus a regular jury kind of same parallel sure right that's a good um you know, comparison, I guess.

But yeah, basically just like way lower threshold. Right. So anything that's pretty much just like anything basically comes in at a bail hearing. Not anything, but whatever. So this is being talked about this article at a bail hearing. So that's one point. I just want to draw the distinction there. But if we're talking about using rap lyrics at a trial, any piece of evidence that is introduced at trial, there has to be a balancing test for that evidence.

Is it more probative than it is prejudicial? What's probative? Probative means does it tend to prove something, like a fact at issue at the trial? Is it more, does it better help prove something versus how prejudicial is it? And prejudicial meaning, how much does it hurt the party, right? So how prejudicial, how likely would the jury make other inferences from that piece of evidence that had nothing to do with proving facts?

So, for instance, how probative, and let's look at a song lyric where he's like, let's say like, I shoot that boy. I shot that boy. I keep that thing on me. Whatever it is. All right? Whatever it is all right whatever it is right how probative is that how much does that tend to prove whether young thug actually committed actually committed a shooting versus how likely is the jury to take to make an inference from that that um you know is improper right so that's a balancing test that every single piece every

single piece of evidence uh goes through what was the second one there's probative and then versus prejudicial right okay and what's that how does that work so prejudicial is uh would the jury make like an um just like an improper inference from that right so it's like i guess with the like i shot that guy like they could infer that that meant that young thug actually shot someone but that would be you know versus the that that is very prejudicial right someone's saying i shot someone but it's in the context of a rap song is that really probative of anything so okay that's a really good way of laying it out so i understood that so and you can look up so look up on your computer right now look up federal rule of evidence 403 federal that's why i love having you in here you give me the fucking goods

403 yes sounds very official is that that look right, right there? Yes. The court may exclude relevant evidence. Let me click the full thing so you can read it. Okay, go ahead. The court may exclude relevant evidence if its probative value is substantially outweighed by a danger of one of, more of the following. Unfair prejudice, confusing

the issues, misleading the jury, undue delay, wasting time, etc. But the big one, because it's called the 403 balancing test, is prohibitive and it's unfairly prejudicial. Right? Because pieces of evidence might be prejudicial, meaning that it hurts your client, right? So, like, just because something hurts your client

doesn't mean that it shouldn't come in. Because, like, if it hurt... Prejudicial, the word prejudicial uh i mean like look if if there's a uh you know a videotape confession of young thug saying i killed someone yeah that's pretty prejudicial young thug but it's not unfairly prejudicial it's not like the jury's making the wrong inference right yeah yeah i i see what you're saying so this is what's really interesting about this one though is it is so subjective i'm talking about the judge right now yes the judge no it comes down to the judge it comes down to the i mean look i i clerked for a criminal judge right and

like we dealt with this stuff all the time and like pre-trial motions a lot of this stuff comes out in pre-trial motions right and that so what's good about this is like when young if young thug is eventually tried they will uh the attorneys will likely hash this out prior to trial so like you can keep the the jury out of those types of decisions yeah because you're talking about all this where we're at all pre-trial hearings right now so there's no jury but you're talking about hypothetically the evidence that's going to be allowed at trial yes so when we're looking at the rap lyrics you know have there been rappers before even guys who are known not just like you know some somebody no one knows who have rapped about things that are

very illegal that they actually have done yes how many times on you don't even have to give me a percentage though how many fucking lyrics have been put out there that a dude never did never had any part of he's putting in a fucking rap song it is overwhelming in that direction so now a guy's on trial the actual federal government well in this case the state of georgia has made a huge case well now it seems relevant right but just because they made a case if they if they made a case where they're basing a lot of it off his rap lyrics it it could very well be bullshit because you also have to take into account like we were saying at the outset of this where is he from who are some people he was friends with when he was growing up who maybe

he doesn't stop from hanging in the studio right now and how much fucking responsibility does he have for what they do listen i have some friends who do some things that you know maybe i don't i don't agree with it's not you know i don't judge how man makes a living that's not up to me who are your friends though don't worry about it but i'm saying like if suddenly someone came in here and said we got you julian you're the head of the fucking trendifier conspiracy because this guy was not gonna say whatever but doing x y and z like i'd be like so i let him hang out in my studio i'm fucking guilty of the shit like what the fuck you know yeah so yeah i mean i tend to agree with you, right? So, like, there, I think, and you can look this up, I think there was legislation proposed or passed in New York to stop this very thing from happening. But what, and I'm just playing devil's advocate, right? So, what's the flip side then? You're shaking your head. Yeah, I'm shaking my head in agreement just because you asked me to pull that up.

Let's read this article off. I'm going to put it up right here. It's behind you. New York Senate passes a bill preventing prosecutors from using rap lyrics against rappers in criminal cases. Yeah, yeah. Right there. Does New York have a house?

Is it passed? I don't know. A bill was passed in the New York Senate prohibiting prosecutors from using lyrics, rappers using songs as evidence against them in a criminal trial. The bill now heads to the state assembly where it will become a law if it passes there. This is in May. So Senate bill whatever, whatever, whatever was passed by a 38 to 23 vote the bill limits the admissibility of evidence of defendants create okay a defendant's creative or artistic expression against such defendants so that that's more than just rap lyrics that can cover other things sculptures she's sculpting some incriminating shit but

oh wait a second hold on this is we're – we're going to talk about this. Earlier this year, People obtained a letter from Jay-Z's Team Rock attorney Alex Spiro and University of Richmond professor Eric Nielsen that showed entertainers Jay-Z, Meek Mill, Killer Mike – I got to talk to you about Killer Mike off camera. All right. camera big sean i'm a fan kelly rowland robin thick fat joe and yo gadi signed the letter sent to lawmakers that states that reform is urgently needed so this is interesting rock nation is on this one and you you haven't seen the mcmonickel thing but you and i talked about like his thoughts on that that's cool they don't fuck around with that shit no they're very active yeah i respect that um but yeah my two cents on this is right so i probably agree with like a law like this but then i'm just gonna play devil's advocate right please are we do we really want a system where if someone is uh you know they've done

serious crimes and then they just like they they directly talk about it in their rap songs do we want a system where that can't come into a court of law i don't and and and having said that i honestly don't think it's that big of a deal right because it's not like that's the only evidence or that's like even a linchpin of evidence right like if someone commits these crimes that they're being charged with there's gonna be other evidence right you're gonna need other evidence i don't know what the import of just someone saying like i shot that dude whatever you know i do think it's unfairly prejudicial right because i exactly what we're talking about i think a jury a jury hears that and they they hear that and they make the inference oh wow if he said it it must be true but really it's just

it's an it is an artistic expression so like i think like i mean the rules of evidence basically already had like a safe uh like a safeguard for this this type of scenario but um yeah how about this just throw this out there and maybe i'm not thinking of some examples where this wouldn't fit the bill fairly. But if you're building your whole case based on rap lyrics, you don't have a case. No. Why can't you do it? Look, unfortunately, I say unfortunately because it's fucked up. It's not hard to get wiretaps in this country.

These guys have no problem in these secret courts getting wiretaps go get and there's allegedly like some wiretaps or something but again we're not hearing much about that right now so we'll have to see what that is but like go get your fucking wiretaps why do you need the rap lyrics if they're gonna say it on their fucking phone that's a lot better than rap lyrics like i guess what people don't put their lyrics on the phone unless they're literally singing the song to their friend like hey what do you think of that bar? That's a fact because you say – and the devil's advocate is fair. You're saying like, well, what if that's a good place to spot where people are literally admitting stuff?

OK. But again, I'll go back to my first argument. I think it's a minimal number of people doing that. So if you want to find the exceptions to the rule and then make that the whole rule, that's a problem to me. Whereas if it were the other way around, whereas usually a rapper says something on there, they're actually doing it, let's say 90% of the time, then it's a different conversation. I don't think that's the case. I think these guys are literally – I mean like I said,'ve seen it in person like that they're making shit up sometimes yeah and i don't know what this legislation says like if it says anything that's in a song can't

come into evidence but it's it says it limits the admissibility of evidence of a defendant's creative or artistic expression against such defendant in a criminal proceeding and it's in quotes so i imagine that's probably in the text of the bill right that doesn't mean shit to me i mean we just went through we just went through 403 right which basically you know in my opinion already covers that to a certain extent so which one was 403 again it was the the probative versus prejudicial right um so to me just limiting the admissibility still as written to me i'm assuming all right in certain circumstances if it's really egregious or it really lines up with their allegations if it's like i shot him

at noon on a tuesday with a with a glock nine like in the in the shoulder like whatever like and what if what if he says a lot of stuff in a rap song and none of those are like facts that are known to the public and it's like and they all line up like in a situation like that it's like that's a pretty big expression of guilt do we want to keep that out of a court i hear it now here's actually you just made me think of one this is a good point what if the guy wrote that or wrapped that in a song whatever it was shot a guy outside of his house in a whatever and let's say and this is not relevant i'm making this up right now but let's say that there was a video camera footage feed of someone doing exactly that where they're wearing a ski mask so you can't make out their face.

And they said that in a rap song. That's where the smoke is fire to me. And now in New York, they wouldn't be able to use that. So it's kind of weird because I understand you have to have some sort of cement within the law. I get that. It's just the reality of what things are. But how do you try to create a system where there's a burden – I'm making up terms right now because I'm not a lawyer, but there's like burden of proof exceptions. Like if you can corroborate it with three other variables that are one of A, B d e or f then you can introduce it before then you cannot use it on its own as evidence i mean yeah that's like well we're talking like very like specific like we have to be very specific legislation and you think about like the rules

of evidence right they're they're supposed to be used you know they're supposed to be relatively straightforward it's not supposed to be like super complicated like there's so many things that happens that so many things that happen at trial that you um you know it's kind of on the fly right so you know it what you just said like cooperating whatever like you already lost me i'm like that's that's very hard to follow but but i think this law basically says it and what i just said with this law is it says it limits the admissibility it didn't say totally inadmissible oh wait hold on i missed that sorry that's what i said limits the admissibility right okay i don't take that i don't personally take that as uh mean meaning to be totally inadmissible so the headline's wrong the headline says passes bill preventing prosecutors from using

rap lyrics against rapper that's technically wrong well we have it we just saw that quote it might limit the admissibility totally like totally limited i don't know i don't know you know i haven't read it. But I'm just saying, a lot of times, laws and legislation, they're not totally... It seems like a drastic step to say, under no circumstances could this otherwise relevant and, you know, like, evidence that corroborates, like, a murder, like, could this never come in. You know what I mean?

Right. But that might be the case, and I'm cool with it. I don't think it's that big of a deal, right? Because if that's all, if, I mean, if a guy did shoot someone, and he's like, I was wearing, like, a yellow polo and, like, blue socks and this, and, like, I shot him in this location and this hour with this gun and this, like, whatever, and none of this is, like, public information, and he says it on a rap

song and you have him on video and the video is not public whatever like i mean and that's all you got is just him saying it like i'm okay like i'm okay with that guy who is probably dumb enough for saying that shit he probably should be in jail but i'm okay with that guy going free you know what i mean like i'm okay like like philosophically philosophically did i say that right philosophically yeah whatever um i'm okay with that guy going free so i think for the system to work and it's it's tough to stomach when you think about like the gravity of some crimes like prime example like oj simpson right like we all think there's a strong chance he did that no pretty much literally no really yeah exactly but like he went free right that's the system working because the prosecutors argued a terrible case and so you're

keeping the government in check so that's a lot to stomach like holy shit he went he murdered two people including his wife brutally but he's free and it's not good but when you take that's one anecdotal case when you take that into account with everything and you take into account when prosecutors put an innocent man in prison this is where you know what i mean it's very hard to process but yeah there's like a quote um i don't know if it's a quote or like a parable i don't know whatever it's like but it's just better to have um like a hundred guilty men go free than one innocent man i agree in jail and i don't you know there's definitely some quote out there that says that but uh that's pretty much been um

accepted and that's kind of the that's what the the uh the like lean of our legal system should be it's like we have a very high um standard of proof for uh criminal conviction so like it should be there should be guilty people going free you know like people like the law of averages says that. Exactly. There should be, like, a lot of guilty people going free, and there's, and you'd hope that there aren't many innocent people in jail, which we all know that's not true. There are innocent people in jail that people get exonerated all the time. I've heard a number from all different people, and they come up with, their own range but the range always falls in seven to ten percent where they say seven to ten and these are usually people who are in prisons themselves who are

you know working on issues or whatever or have been around prisons and i i have a lot of belief in that where they say seven to ten percent are either fully innocent or a lot innocent of what they ended up being charged with and various things went wrong in either their defense or the government pressure on them from a monetary means power means whatever that forced them into situations and a very common one there is when people are forced to plead to something because it's like oh i'm facing life i don't want to take my chances i'll take the 15 years when in reality they really do want to go to trial because they didn't do it and some of them are lying obviously but some of them aren't you know that's it yeah fuck man it's a i talk about this a lot because it i

mentioned it is my phobia but my ultimate phobia is that i'm in a box six by eight for something i didn't do i can't even fathom that yeah that is one of those yeah that keeps everyone up i feel like if you actually think about it me just thinking about it right now imagining like being accused of a serious crime um and knowing you didn't do it but not being able to prove it and and not being able to do anything about it that's horrible um and it's not like there's like some good solution for it i mean you think now that you know now i mean a lot of these you know i don't know if you are you familiar familiar with the innocence project of course yeah the innocence product yeah they're like in every state whatever it's like a like a ryan ryan who's coming in here his

i mentioned this right before we got on his the chairman of his board is jason flom who's also one of the i believe he's one of the founding board members of innocence project the shit they do yeah they're like a non-profit organization that like advocate you know like they do like post-conviction relief stuff which i know i can talk all day about like post-conviction stuff randomly i like i'm i'm super into that stuff but we'll get there um but anyway they um yeah they anyway, they advocate for a lot of post-conviction relief. And back then, back in the 70s, 80s, whatever, they just didn't have the DNA evidence. And there were so many convictions.

And you'd think, all right, they've tested all the evidence now. And they've sorted it out it's still just like there's like every other day like every other week whatever you're seeing someone like exonerated because of dna evidence what pisses me off to no end is when prosecutors who quite literally were not around when those cases went through who really have no no one's going to blame them for what happens here when they suppress the argument for new evidence that is scientifically

backed to be presented that is criminal to me that is not that is not a just dude or woman doing their position as prosecutor and just being a hardball fucking difficult person to deal with. That's criminal. If someone – if you have someone come to you, Innocence – I don't care who it is, Innocence Project, another attorney, whatever, and say, I have DNA evidence that this rape murder

that did not have DNA available or whatever, or you didn't find this when it was going on, I have DNA evidence that will show that this man who is sitting life in prison and has been there for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years didn't do it. If you weren't around

then, just say, okay, present it. If it's not true fuck them if it's true let's see it i don't know why this is hard i i can't that is one thing i cannot wrap my head around that yeah um so i'll try and play devil's advocate, right? Please. And I'll explain, I guess, a bit of the conviction, appeal, post-conviction process. Can you run through that? I've actually never really looked into this enough. So when you're convicted of a crime, you can appeal, right? But you can only appeal.

You can't just say, I appeal like you know say i appeal and say like i don't agree with this i want to i just i want to get a new trial or a new opinion or whatever you have to appeal on certain aspects of your case right so if if you're um and this is if you you were tried by a jury or or judge whatever, and you went through a trial and they entered a verdict, right? Is that called a bench trial when they do that? Bench trial, yeah, judge trial, yeah. Okay. So, you would appeal and you'd say, for instance, this bit of evidence, it could be a good thing, for instance, like rap lyrics they use rap lyrics um against me and you know i think that the

the court committed uh like an error when they um allowed those rap lyrics to come uh in and then the appellate court would say um yes they committed a reversible error whatever you get a new trial or no they'd say ah that was even if it was error, that was a harmless error. It wouldn't change the outcome of the, of the trial anyway. So nope. Boom. You're, um, you're screwed. Okay. So once you've exhausted, that's called your direct appeal and you can appeal, you know, on many different things, whatever. Um, once you've exhausted your direct appeal, then you're allowed to, um, uh uh what's called file a collateral appeal right so um yeah so now i'm getting yeah i'm not aware of that so there is this there's this pcr post conviction relief act i don't know if that's specific to pennsylvania but i know every state

has a uh an avenue where you can appeal your um your um your conviction on a collateral appeal and that is raising um matter collateral appeal just means raising matters that are like outside the courtroom so you would initially um so that's where you hear about all these and this is where it gets complicated this is where i'm kind of playing devil's advocate, right? So, a lot of people will appeal their trial and say, I was denied my Sixth Amendment right to effective assistance of counsel, right? So, they'll say, my lawyer was crappy. He didn't object onto this evidence. He didn't do this.

He did this wrong. He did this wrong, whatever. And you'll appeal that. So, you first have to go through your state you appeal that to your state appellate court then you is this in every state every state has a has an avenue where you do a collateral appeal also right you appeal to your state appellate court then you can appeal that to your state supreme court whatever whatever and again it would be like a it wouldn't be you've already exhausted your appeal with the actual matters of the trial.

So then this would be something like my lawyer was shitty or like – Oh, this is after you've done all regular appeals, you're saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like some other type of violation like a confrontation clause violation, like some – and we don't have to get into like other like constitutional like violations something like that so then you go and then you exhaust those appeals once you've done that then you are actually able to file um uh like a habeas corp a habeas corpus action in federal um court right what does that mean again so that means you just sue you basically sue it's a civil action so you sue your so you'll sue like your warden or you'll you'll sue the like jail that you have and you'll

say you keeping me in jail is a violation of my rights and you basically then allege the same things you would have alleged in the PCRA right so like you'll allege like um my my lawyer was shitty like there was uh like a confrontation clause is is like a tricky one like I'm trying to think of examples where it's like you have like certain defendants testify like it's hard for me to explain and it's kind of complicated but like you can allege other like constitutional violations right and then a federal court will hear that right a federal court can then say rule like okay actually um this this witness was you know um i'm trying to think of uh there's there's there's an example where it's like a wit if you if it's like co-defendants right and um they're supposed they're not supposed to say

the name of like another they're supposed to keep someone's name like like silent but then they say the name of the other uh defendant and like that you know they weren't supposed to say that because the trials were severed or whatever like that can um then like it's it's like constitutional violations like that you know and then once you're in federal court then the federal court can say all right actually no that's bs like you get a new trial or like you're you're allowed to you know question on this with a specific example i don't know if this might be a hard one to break down but as far as like when you're making the argument of attorney malpractice right which is one of the ones you mentioned it's called i iac ineffective ineffective assistance accounts okay so one of the stories that was a theme throughout my

conversation different than malpractice a theme throughout my conversation different than malpractice just clarify how's it different than malpractice malpractice is like a civil thing this is like a straight up constitutional like you were denied effective assistance okay so legally different in my mind i'm trying to refer to the same shit okay perfect though one of the one of the stories brian told early on that got referred to several times throughout my conversation with him because it was like he picked a really good one to use as an example. He was talking about when he was a prosecutor, one that really sticks with him is this woman. I think her name was Cheryl. Was her last name Hines? It was Cheryl. I don't remember her last name. But she was found guilty of first degree murder. He did not want to find her guilty of first degree murder. What happened was

her husband was cheating on her. She figured it out. She went over to the other bitch's house. That woman answered the door. She's like, where's my fucking husband and the woman's like oh don't do that long story short she ends up i think it was she killed the woman by accident because she had a gun and it like kind of went off crime of passion you know the whole bit so

she goes to get charged with it and brian goes to her defense counsel and says, hey, to me this – she's charged with murder one. I can charge her with murder three and let the judge do some justice here and not give her life in prison without parole and actually give her a second chance because he's like, this isn't a premeditated murder it's bad it's murder but like i understand this isn't an irredeemable person who can't ever be in society again the lawyer was some young hot shot and he was like fuck you we're going it's actually involuntary manslaughter or whatever and he's like dude you gotta we're gonna clean your clock in this case like it's it's done deal we have a witness whatever you know she's gonna get found guilty he's like no no no she's not goes to trial she gets found guilty of first degree murder life without parole now that's where he explained the story he became a defense attorney after that and he thinks about it a lot but i didn't ask him about like this appeal process or anything

could she argue in a court of law and perhaps and I think he would do this if he was asked. I'm pretty sure he would. She's been in there for fucking 30 years now. and my guy said no because he wanted to try to win the case, which was a very bad move, could she go in with a collateral, whatever the official term was, and say I had ineffective counsel? I don't think so. Why? And here's why. Because unless the – it doesn't sound like the – so just making – there's a difference between making the wrong decision and depriving your client of their constitutional right to counsel, of effective counsel. Because he got the information from the prosecutor and took the offer back to his client right presumably he informed his client well we think we don't even know that and he advised his client well

let's assume that right because if he didn't advise his client of that then i do think for so for instance if he if he if they had that conversation you absolutely any uh plea deals you have to advise your client right so um if he if he got the the plea offer and he just like was like nah screw you we're taking it to trial and didn't tell his uh client then i think yeah you could get a um you know uh ineffective assistance of counsel claim there but if he went talked with talked to um and you're you're saying brian was a uh he's a prosecutor at the time talked to brian um and then said nah screw you and then went back and told his client like yeah he offered us this but we're taking it to trial and the client agreed even though he was

heavily heavily influencing her and like very much like uh you know influencing her decision i don't think that's ineffective assistance to counsel he made the wrong decision and it probably it cost her her life but but i don't think that's really actionable wow so that's not yeah this is a really this is this is a tight boundary it's a tough tough standard it's a tough stand so i don't know there's like three elements to it dude and now i'm getting like yeah i'm coming out remembering parts of like my brain that i haven't even thought of in years um there's like you have to do like your lawyer has to do something uh wrong it has to be um and you have to like there's a couple more like your your lawyer has to do something wrong

it has to be something that like no reasonable lawyer would have done and then it has to be something that would have like changed the outcome of the trial and the judge has to rule on this subjectively therefore because it's a human being ruling on it effectively yeah so like yeah we're talking about the like on the collateral appeal right yeah so like think of how hard that standard is right so like all right you got to say that your lawyer did something that was like you got to let your lawyer did something wrong that there wasn't a reason for it like a good reason for it and then you have to say that the the case it would have changed the outcome of the case right because other than that it's just a harmless error it's just like oh well because think about i mean there is a that's an important element because if your lawyer

if your lawyer didn't object to like you know if a witness testified to some minor like detail that was maybe not like some minor like hearsay thing like you're a witness testified yeah and there was like like a homeless guy like that asked me for change like all right that's hearsay evidence right like that's an out-of-course statement coming in but like that's not gonna that doesn't affect anything right like you know yeah fine you can object to the home like some random homeless guy that was just on the street saying hey can i have some change right but like that's not going to change the course of a trial sorry i'm getting really no that was fucking great man i love it it's because whenever i'm talking to people who actually understand the law and they're not just trying

to figure it out when i read articles and shit you know i always kind of assume that there's like some sort of objective procedure that has like three to five steps that I don't know about with this stuff. And what you're laying out right there confirms that for this, which is that you can't just like claim it and then try to say, well, you did this. No, there has to be like, all right, there's a menu of whatever, A, B, C, and D, which one of these could be applicable. So you can't just say it on anything but that also you know you don't want to make a system where people can get out of things easily i get that 100 and that's and that was my point when i said and we got off on this whole tangent yeah when you were saying like why is this d evidence not, like, all tested? Like, why could someone argue against that?

Because we have such a system where you can, like, make these claims. Like, there is a, almost everyone in jail that's in jail for life is constantly filing, like, petitions. Of course. Right? How many of them have DNA, though? I don't know. And another thing is, here's this right so there's also and i told you that uh there's another avenue that i didn't tell you about right so let's go there

so so like you can allege on this habeas petition right this is after you exhausted your direct appeal after you exhausted your collateral appeal and you said this is a civil thing that's a civil suit a habeas corpus suit i forget the statutes but it's a federal statute um it's a civil suit but it's like basically you know it's the same thing as the collateral appeal basically you argue the same thing um you can there's a um i think it's called the actual innocence exception i don't know if that's the right word for it but basically um like something for like newly discovered evidence things like that that would tend to prove your actual innocence right so so at that point you're

not arguing that you were deprived of like you know your constitutional right because you you you can exhaust those avenues and habeas as well so like once you've argued that like all right my lawyer was shitty he deprived me of my constitutional right to like effective assistance of counsel like they're like the federal habeas court's like no then like later you can say all right like this new evidence came out or like a big one that's like you know kind of like floods courts a bit is like witnesses retracting their statement so like after 20 years you can go like think about a case after 20 years like something happened when someone's 18 you can call up that main witness and get her to sign an affidavit saying like i don't really remember i

don't i think it was different because people's memories right banks yeah people's memories fade they change over time so that's a that's a big one that's just like like all right like do you you know if you testified and you were sure of something 20 years ago you're like obviously you're not going to remember it the same 20 years from now so like you can get this person to sign the affidavit whatever so that's like that's a big one the kind of um i mean look i'm all four people getting their day in court and i don I don't think an innocent person should be behind bars. But that's one where it's – I don't want to say exploited, but that's an avenue that's utilized a lot. It's just getting witnesses to say they don't remember or recant their statements or whatever after years and years and years have passed.

Yeah, and eyewitness testimony is a whole different conversation too because technically it is one of the most least reliable things so i guess just one of the least reliable things there is because you know people don't you know you talk about perjury sometimes yes it's absolutely perjury if someone's making shit up or whatever and they know damn well they're making it up but there's other times where people think yeah yeah, I saw this. Whether it's through different psychological anchoring that happened to them when they were talking about the investigation or what they thought they saw. Like I consider it in my own life with things I've seen. I'm like, did I really see that?

I don't know. I question that all the time. Oh, yeah. And it puts people in a tough spot. It's when you have corroborating evidence all over the place so when you see things where there's 30 people who were in different places not next to each other saying the same shit okay yeah that's that's probably how it went but when it's one guy who's like yeah i definitely saw this there's you've seen it in court where lawyers can have someone on the stand for a few hours

and crack them two hours in because suddenly, like, oh, but that's not what you said. You said this, you know, and it's not necessarily, the person's not lying. It's just, it's a psychological phenomenon, you know? Yeah, no, absolutely. And that's, like, the science is, like, starting to come out on that. A lot of, like, witness identifications, especially, to be honest, cross-racial, like, identification is terrible, right? Like, people are just not good at identifying people of other races. And you can Google it right now.

Really? Cross-racial identification. I haven't seen any recent news right i mean i've i learned about it in law school and like you know i'm i'm just familiar with it like um like if if a white guy observes you know um a black guy committed a crime whatever um he's and he's shown like a lineup like he's much more likely to like pick incorrectly and meaning it may not be on purpose at all it may just no no it's just it's whatever it is it's the same it's just like basically like when when you talk to any race when you talk to and and

seriously i mean this like people are thinking about some of the joking context right now. But when you talk to any larger race, if you want to talk to a larger race of black people, people who are, let's say, like European white, people who are Mediterranean white. I say that in air quotes. I don't really know. People who are Asian, they will all say about, like, if you are not in that race you will have another race say yeah they kind of all look the same to me and it's not you know we take that as racist in some things now but there is a psychological i mean there's imperial empirical evidence to say i'm not going to say like they all look the same but right but i would say cross-racial identifications are terrible. People are bad at picking, especially, so like, that is unreliable evidence, in my opinion,

when it comes to, you know, the criminal process. This is a little small. You're closer to it. Can you just read the first two paragraphs here on this article? Eyewitness testimony was often thought of as the best evidence in a criminal trial. Today, experts are learning it's not so reliable, especially when the witnesses and the suspect are of different races. The concept is called cross-race effect, and it was first mentioned in research published in the Journal of Criminal Law and Police Science in 1914. It is defined as a tendency for individuals

to better recognize members of their own race or ethnicity and be worth worse at recognizing people of another race cross-race effect has contributed to numerous eyewitness okay identifications they've been looking at this for a fucking century yeah no it's it's not it's nothing new like i mean like we learned about it in law school um it's um it's definitely like a thing uh i'm i mean this article i'm sure there's some numbers i'm sure you can get some raw numbers and that was published in a journal i'm sure there was some numbers in that that main journal but it's it's just one of those things where um you know for the longest time people didn't really question it they were like

oh it was this guy okay good you know and and again, there are certain, sure, there are certain like explicit biases, biases, biases, whatever, however you say that word. Yeah. Explicit biases that people have, but this is one of those that was not, that's not really explicit it's just like people are just you know if if i'm a white guy and i grew up in a house in a community with like white guys i'm just not as good at identifying for like a split second like you know an asian guy or like right you know a hispanic guy you know think about it you think about your environment during your developmental years every day your eyes are taking in data. That's what we do. So we take in data

of the people who are closest to us all the time. So that is what we learn to immediately like when we first get an image on something, we can associate distinct qualities on that. When we're not around someone who may have a different look to them through

literal ethnicity of somewhere in the world we don't recognize those same things because we don't have as it's it's math we don't have as many data points in our head to be able to be like oh right yeah so when you then spend time around people of another ethnicity for a long time then suddenly that's not a problem because now you do learn to recognize those things so i i believe this and it's not you know people love to throw around racism on everything this is very clearly not this is a this is a defined human gene that is perfectly explainable without someone being racist it's just something that needs to be considered in a court of law when

you're looking at who the eyewitness is and what they're identifying. I mean, people are racist. There's a lot of racism that happens, whatever. But this in and of itself, I mean, anyone can fall victim to it. And I think there's studies that have just done it that are just like consistently people are just bad at identifying people of other races and ethnicities.

But what we've been talking about is all this extra, say, circumstantial evidence that can come into play in these cases, be it attorney fuck-ups. And it started with rap lyrics and stuff. So it's funny the lengths that this stuff can go sometimes where you don't think about unintended like quote-unquote consequences. So I was thinking about this while you were saying it, but I forgot to say it a while ago. There was another case. This one was done out of the federal district court in, I guess, Boston, some Massachusetts or whatever. Fun fact, I'm actually pro pro hoc'd in in uh that court what does that mean i'm like i have a merit squid fishing vessel case in boston right now

judge uh what's the judge how does that work so you can argue cases up there even though you're not barred in in massachusetts yeah yeah we have local council they're all like it's is that pro hoc vichy pro hoc vichy yeah i don't know my shit there we go but we say you taught me that pro hoc Yeah, we have local council. They're all, like, it's... Is that Prohawk Vichay? Prohawk Vichay. Ah, I know my shit. There we go. You taught me that. Prohawk, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I'm in there.

What's the judge's name? Judge is, like, some Irish name. Like, every party in there is Irish. Cronahan. Yeah, it's, like, judge... I don't want to... I forget. I should know the judge's name, damn.

But yeah, it's a whatever case but it's a fun fact just fun fact so is that that's a federal case then because it's up there and yes yeah okay got it so there was a case in front of that court though and a whole nother rabbit hole we can go down maybe later is like how they decide like when you see a case filed in the southern district of new york like how they decided to do it there. If it's like something that fucking happened in Hawaii, but it was interstate like versus trying it in Massachusetts. So the reason I say that is because this case was. Ever feel like your WordPress site is moving in slow motion?

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I saw it at first in a documentary by Alex Gibney called, I think it was called Crime of the Century. It was through HBO like a year ago. He talked, it was all about the opium wars and like the Sacklers and everything, which is a whole separate thing. But he covered this case because it had to do with opium. And one of the things they said in that documentary was the prosecutor in Massachusetts talked about why they decided to do this in Massachusetts because that particular prosecutorial government team had an expertise in – I forget what it was, but they decided to try it there. So I don't know how that whole thing works. That's a separate thing. But this incest case was was it was a pharmaceutical company that had a fentanyl product i forget some sort of spray it was fucked up stuff but geez they were

pushing these sales through just like the sack was push oxycontin and there was all kinds of crazy shit going on they charged everyone they got all guilty convictions. But one of the things that happened was the chief sales officer, I guess, who ended up being a government witness. He was still found guilty and went to prison. But he commissioned some sort of competition among his sales reps where, I mean, you want to talk about something effective in a jury. Have you ever seen Better Call Saul, that show? I have not. I have not. Oh, my God.

You have to watch that. People say that. I think it was the first episode ever. It starts with Saul making an argument, and he runs through his whole thing, and you're like, oh, wow, that's really compelling. And then it's a closing statement. And then he finishes. The prosecutor gets up, looks at the jury, doesn't say a word, wheels out a gets up looks at the jury doesn't say a word wheels out a tv looks at the jury presses play on the thing and sits there and you watch the

whole crime go it's like a really fucked up crime and you just see saw like looking down and then he like wheels the tv away no further statement whatever they're found guilty so this was kind of that moment in that case. That's hilarious. This sales officer had all his sales reps do a contest to create a music video about their fucking sales. About their fentanyl spray. Bro, it's actually – I can pull it up. I believe if I skip ahead, it's because this is copyright.

I don't think it's copyright protected. But if you hear a skip, that's why I'm doing it. But I want to play this so that people can see it. This was the winning video that was played. And again, if it's going to skip ahead right now, the video for you people that want to look it up, it's called Subsys, S-U-B-S-Y-S rap video created by Insys Pharmaceuticals. When was this created? This was in, I believe, like 2014.

Listen to this. Yeah, this is disgusting. It's so bad. All right, so I'm going to cut it right there at 2.10. There's like another two minutes left. But titration, just to be clear, the definition of that so that people understand because the hook was like, I love titrations. That's my fucking problem or whatever. It's set to 2 Chainz.

I love bad bitches. That's my fucking problem. Is it 2 Chainz or is it ASAP Rocky? Am I misremembering? No, it's ASAP Rocky, 2 Chainz, and KDOT, I think. Right. Yeah. Okay.

So titration is a way to limit potential side effects by taking time to see how your body will react to a drug. In titration, the medication is started at a low dose every couple of weeks. The dose is raised, up titrated, until the maximum effective dose, target dose, has been achieved or side effects occur, which means it gets more and more addictive the higher you take it. And the idea is that you start low and continue moving them higher so they get addicted to the drug like a subscription. And they put this in a fucking rap video. And of course, by the way, these were the sales reps at the fucking company. Sorry, I'm playing that again. But of course, they played this at the trial.

So if this were New York now and they were making this case in 2023 hypothetically they couldn't play this but this is incredible evidence right there because it's a disgusting you know they're saying exactly what they do and there's evidence to say the company was proud of it all right and tell me if you want me to shut up about we should you should never shut up maybe shut up about the legal stuff but all right I love the legal stuff. I'm going to argue that this comes in because it's not like an artistic expression. It's marketing. But they're not playing it for clients.

They're only playing it internally. I guess that's all right. But was it created by the company? Created by the company to be played internally. There you go. No. It comes in. It's not like a pure artistic expression because it's a company generated project yes okay that's interesting that's that would be my argument though because i would never want to throw this out as like as an american citizen in a case being but like fairly tried i'd want to throw this out as like as an american citizen in a case

being but like fairly tried i'd want to see this talk about unfairly prejudicial like they're terrible at rapping and like as a jury like i wouldn't want to sit like i'd be like throw those guys in jail well they're not the ones on trial it's all they fucking should be but i saw that i was thinking about that the other night because i'm like wait a second would that be admissible now like with these other laws going into effect i don't know but it goes to show you whenever you make a law or like a ruling on something it has downstream effects that perhaps in certain contexts can't be foreseen and then it could be something really controversial like this like a literal fentanyl trial you know it's like imagine

if they couldn't i think they still would have found the guys guilty i think but it'd be harder if they couldn't plate this sure yeah and that's just like the beauty of law and stuff like that is like they're just it's just a mess you never know what's gonna affect this and that and you know that's why lawyers have jobs fuck yeah there's a lot of them too but it's too many there are too many but it's funny when you need one holy shit it's important to have them yeah but with this young thug case just to close this out so we're in we're still in the pre-trial phase trials technically like tentatively set for january what that'll get pushed for sure why why do you say it'll get

pushed there's many reasons uh rarely i mean just for the simple fact that rarely a trial of that like magnitude think of all the they've got 28 gang members i mean there's there's multiple motions there's going to be motions to sever the to separate trial like are they going to try what 28 defendants at once is it all one case now you gotta sever that like uh there's there's so much issues that that have to be resolved like everything we just talked about about you know lyrics do they come does the jury get to see that whatever in january what that's a couple months from now you know so that's not gonna happen by january i i would bet i'd bet anything on it um and and uh trials

get continued regularly so it's just you know well actually there's another question on this whole thing because i i always wonder about this especially when i've seen like mob cases in the past where this happens but how does it work when you have a case where it's the same case but there's multiple defendants maybe they even have slightly different charges and then they each have their own attorney and the case is done in the same courtroom in front of the same jury like how does do those defense attorneys all have to work together or will they work against each other like what what's the dynamic there so as a defense attorney your loyalty is to your client right right? So if I'm a defense attorney, it's fuck all the other defendants. I'm presenting the case, presenting the defense that is in the best interest of my client, right?

To that end, if it's beneficial to you, you would move to sever the trials, have different trials for different defendants. It also depends factually what the circumstances are. So it's... And to be honest, I'm not super up on moving to sever trials. There's also... Moving to what? Like sever. I'm saying sever.

Separate them out, meaning have different juries? Yes. In different cases. Like just Joe Blow is the only defendant in the courtroom and then a jury decides his case. And then Joe Schmo, whatever. It does seem like every time you look at one of these big trials where there's an 88-page 88 page indictment and stuff like that it's almost a formality they say january and it's going to be in fucking august you know so i almost wonder why they do that why they even set a trial date ahead of time just be like no we're going to have these hearings we'll figure it out then and then we'll start to figure out when the trial is

going to be but at the same time they can drag out sometimes for years and someone's life is in limbo all this time. The civil rights part of that's a whole other thing too. True. I mean, you have a right to a speedy trial under the US Constitution, but you waive that right because it's in the best interest of your defense, right? Because you need time to build, to gather defense witnesses and facts and doing your own investigation so true i mean technically speaking i get what you're saying right like all right like you could be sitting in limbo for years and you know you don't know when your trial is going to be but at that point you would have you would have waited like you're probably the one asking for continuances because the court will only grant um the state like a certain number

of continuances uh before that you know before they'll say no you you gotta put you're this you're the state you're the government you gotta put on your case but they'll be the opposite with the defense you're saying true i mean in certain instances i mean there's a lot of agreements right so like i don't care what case it is you know there's a lot of agreements, right? So like, I don't care what case it is, you know, there is a lot of agreement between the prosecutor and the defense attorney because that, you know, you just have to agree on certain things, right? So like, if the prosecutor comes and says, look, can we get a, you know, we're going to ask for a continuance here. You may not object because you know, down the road, you're going to ask for, you may, you may not object because, you know, down the road, you're going

to ask for, you know, five more continuances on, on certain things. So, like, that's just working with each other. I wouldn't, I would say certainly, yes, I'd say judges probably favor, I mean, there are constitutional protections for, like, speedy trials, but, like, once that's, once you've, like, kind of waived that then you know you're you're pretty much once you've waived that you're you've pretty much waived that right so um uh but but then at that point it's just the judge managing their cases and their dockets right so like they don't want to just have something sitting forever so like the judge will keep the feet the the um keep either party's feet to the fire, right? Like, they're not just going to be like, oh, you want a continuance?

Sure, whatever. We're just a continuance court here. Like, judges will be like, all right, why do you want a continuance? What's the reason? Is this a good reason? And they'll grant it or they won't grant it. Many times they do. You know, you'll always get the first one most

judges will grant that but actually federal federal courts uh hold another animal uh i'm talking state court here um why why is the federal court different federal courts is way more strict they are like i'm it's just federal court deadlines are hard deadlines for the most part um you know and if the parties don't make the deadlines and you know they're not able and they ask for a continuous they better have a damn good reason uh whereas state court it's a lot more lax it's a lot more in state court um you know for instance much of state court is is in the count it's to the county so like for instance i clerked for a judge in montgomery county and we'd see the same

my judge knew half of the attorneys pretty well that would be before his court you know he knew that they were you know good competent attorneys whatever and he wouldn't really if you know he he'd known the guy say he knows the one attorney for 20 years and he asked for a continuance my judge isn't going to give him a hard time you know he's going to say you can have a continuance you know whatever um and not the federal judges don't know the attorneys like that but it's just different it's just a it's a different animal it's a different beast they need a higher burden of proof to be able to grant things it's just it's much more stringent you're saying yeah it's much more stringent it's much more stringent there was there was a case i was going to ask you about, but then you introduced the federal versus state thing.

So I'm going to go to a second case first. So remind me. I'm going to come back to it first. Fetty Wap. Oh, shit. Yeah, he just got charged for something. I don't know. No, he didn't just get charged.

This was almost a year ago now. This is like, I want to say the end. He got sentenced right no i unless i have hold on let me google no something happened in like the last week or something hold on you've seen something in the last week on this i fetty wop's name has been in the news in the last two weeks regarding something like related to the courts oh wow look and this wasn't even on the google main page i didn't hear about this hold on let's breaking news now i'm still going to ask you the same question

but let's see the details here before i ask see i know so fetty wop pleads guilty to federal drug drug charges in new york now he was arrested i believe like last october or something like that it's been a long time i'm gonna get to why to why I was going to ask about this. But rapper Fetty Wap admitted his role in an interstate multi-million dollar drug trafficking scheme Monday, pleading guilty to a charge that carries a minimum sentence of five years in prison. The hip-hop star, real name Willie Maxwell, entered the plea to a single one count of conspiracy to possess and distribute 500 grams of cocaine. Okay. All right. Hold on a second. Read second read that quote we're gonna get to that before judge steven lock at the federal courthouse in central islip on long island i agreed with other people to distribute cocaine fettywap told the judge here's the pictures of some of that damn here's the pictures the cash he added that it was at least 500 grams

and that some of the conduct occurred in suffolk County, which he's from New Jersey. Patterson represent. Suffolk County is not New Jersey, therefore interstate federal trafficking. When asked how he'd like to plead, the Trap Queen rapper responded guilty. The charge carries a maximum sentence of 40 years in prison and a mandatory. Mandatory? Hold on. Minimum of five years for blow that seems excessive

anyway locks but we're going to talk about that lock said at the hearing no sentencing was immediately scheduled the plea is standard and the rapper not cooperating is not cooperating with law enforcement his attorney elizabeth macedonia the attorney said that told reporters in the hallway outside the courtroom he's not cooperating. I want that to be very, very clear. All right. Whoa. All right. Hold on.

Okay. All right. Now I have ten questions on this because I was actually complete and I've been tracking this. And again, this didn't show up on Google's main page. So this was kept very, very quiet. Are you mad you're out of the Fetty Wap loop? First of all, I want to be clear. I've never met Fetty Wap.

I do not know fettywap i have not reached inside the network of people i know there to ask a single question you're not involved in this cocaine conspiracy of course i'm not involved shut the fuck up you know what i mean i haven't like i haven't reached out for inside information on this the people i may know who aren't involved with this specific situation but know him i've not asked anything but you could if you wanted to i guess but like it's not my fucking business so okay he gets arrested it was roughly 10 months ago i think when he gets arrested he gets arrested at a concert in new york he was one of five arrests of different people all different places of origin as far as around the country for whatever

where they said that they were distributing all kinds of drugs including fentanyl literally now he goes into court post bail immediately four weeks later suddenly he's going on every pod... Now, he's got federal charges against him, pending. He's going on every podcast known to man. He's in the studio again working, which apparently was a problem before that. It wasn't happening of reason. He then... There's an announcement that said maybe three, four weeks after the initial arrest, where the prosecution and his defense attorneys had agreed to a hold period. I don't know if this is a continuance.

I don't know what the term was, but a hold period that the judge then approved to say that they were going to be negotiating on a plea. Now, again, this involved fentanyl. This involved potentially, allegedly, some serious shit he didn't plead guilty to any of that and the person with the quote and again i know nothing here but the person with the quote in that article i thought it was from his lawyer right that's his lawyer and going out of her way to say i want to be very very clear he's not cooperating you're telling me he's not cooperating

when they came to a deal between the federal prosecutors and the defense to put a hold on the whole fucking trial where he is the headliner he's the big name he's the rapper and it involves fentanyl and everything and he only pleads to coke which I can't even believe that's five years of prison for 500 grams of coke

Dory you're gonna put are you putting dry snitching allegations on Fetty Wap right now? I'm not putting any dry... I don't know Fetty Wap. I do not know the Willie Maxwell. I have nothing good or bad to say about him. I'm asking the question,

does something like that happen without there being some sort of... Maybe it's not from him. Maybe it's from other people. If there's some sort of... it's not from him maybe it's from other people if there's some sort of maybe he got other people to say hey by the way fetty wap had nothing to do with no fentanyl like we were doing some blow i'm sure that happens i mean i'm sure that happens because think about it just think about that logically right uh fetty wap probably got caught it up with a bunch of people who are not famous like rappers not famous household

name rappers right no more yeah right so they're probably his friends though um and they probably have some loyalty to fettywap and they probably know that all right if i show loyalty to fettywap now then when i get out he's gonna reward me a i'm just thinking about logically b lawyers have a like a duty to be um they have a duty of candor granted this was statements to the media i don't know if it was a statement in court but i don't think she's gonna openly just lie about something like that and then also it's not like fettywop got like a sweetheart teal he got like a pretty serious sentence and it's like and and all all these things are like um you know the the government has to prove this shit.

And the government takes, like, it's hard to prove shit. Things go wrong at trial all the time, especially when you have a guy with money and resources like Fetty Wap. They can hire attorneys. They can do a lot, right? I don't know. I don't know anything. I'm questioning how much money he has. I'm going to tell you that straight you think

that he is more or less than less because and that's a whole separate story with the music industry no well that's what i'm saying that's a whole separate story what the music industry did to that guy it's really disgusting what they did but i, I mean, he spent a lot of money. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it, man. We're on a podcast, bro. I mean, some of that, I have to think about what I'd be comfortable saying publicly. I never like to risk betraying confidences, so I'll keep it very broad.

But, you know, we all know Fetty Wap was was he was the biggest thing in 2015 when he came up he started it was unreal yeah trap queen dropped and then it was just like and then it was six seven nine and then mine again yeah then like what was that song with drake baby come my way where they took monty off for the second single put my mind to this shit yeah he's like maybe once you come my way yeah like he was yo sorry to uh now yo the let's talk about the monty uh chain smokers uh yo google that bro you know that you know it's like i'm like damn she's fine when she'll be mine um or no no wait it was like baby won't you come it was like i'm baby uh baby won't you see is it money or it's me won't you see i think there was a lot no there was a lawsuit and they cut monty a check

did the chain smoker this is from six years ago on Reddit, did the Chainsmokers plagiarize Fetty Wap's 679 melody? I'm genuinely curious. I think he got like a check for like Oh shit! Yo! I've never, I know the song I'm looking at this. I know the song closer.

Of course we all know the song 679. Was there a check cut on that? I know nothing about this. Hold on a minute. Because that's Halsey and the Chainsmokers. That's a good song. Closer.

I can't play them because they're both copyright. No, I could be tripping. I thought that they cut a small check to Monty for that. Hold on. Monty, Chainsmokers settlement. Maybe not. I wonder. I've never heard Monty talk about that.

I wonder if that's something he should look at. Well, he should get a check because I think it was like, they say, baby, won't you be my mountain something i'm like yeah and then it was like baby you want me closer in the backseat of my rover oh my god no it's it's and like it was when they came out it was like the one was like summer of what 2015 the one was summer of like 2016 so it was like it was like right after holy fuck i never thought i gotta look at that afterwards no i like i could have sworn there was something maybe they even just cleared the sample maybe they even like paid him up front for it i don't know but there's gotta be there's something there because everyone it could be yeah i gotta i gotta look at

that after i don't know but i can't get i know both hooks in my head right now it's the same shit it's scary same cadence like same like that's weird because but that one's a big song there's no excuse for that one that one was a top 10 song yes you know there's some where like you know people were i know dualipa got hit with a couple ridiculous lawsuits that she's probably gonna have to to pay a little bit of money on for like, what's it, Levitated? I'm bad with song names. I know. Is that what it's called?

Is it Levitated or Levitate? I think it's like, I'm Levitating. Is it Levitate? Levitating? I know that song you're talking about. Or is it Levitated? Something Levitating. Yeah, that song you're talking about. Or is it levitated? Something levitating. Yeah, I fucked that up in my head.

But like when you look at the rhythm of that, there's some reggae song by some no names that happened like 10 years ago that has like a similar beat style to it. So they're claiming it. But that's the thing. Music has been around recording now for like a century. There's limited notes, man. You know, as far as like recording artists in studios and shit. century there's limited notes man you know as far as like recording artists and in studios and shit like there's limited notes so it's very easy to accidentally make something that maybe one time was made and it's somewhat compelling when you listen to it

but at the same time like fuck off but that that's those are two top 10 songs yeah made concurrently there's no excuse there yeah no i i agree there's whatever but i'm team monty on that one you want to cut him the check you want to know some chain smokers cut him the check some of the deets on that yeah so i'd love to do a pod actually with monty to talk about that because monty's a really he's a good guy and you know he he got fucked as as a part of it but the very broad high level without going into some things i'm not sure you know what's what's fair play but when wop came up you know monty and m80 who's a guy no one's ever heard of but he's a producer no No. M80? M80 was not a producer. On Fetty Wap's

original album, 2015, called Fetty Wap, right? Fetty Wap didn't have any features on there except Monty, who was on 10 of the songs, and M80, who was on one of the songs. He did not go outside. He said, I'm sticking with my boys here.

Monty and M80 were both coming up. they kind of brought fetty along with them i think he might have been like a year younger than them too m80 by the way great dude one of the most talented motherfuckers i've ever talked i think there might be a producer by the name of m80 also i don't know but yeah this is not probably yeah one of the really real dude great guys friends with my friend luke cervino who's friends with all these guys he's working monty and everything and basically they started making these songs it started with them finding this norwegian producer's beat that was the breakthrough it was trap queen and wops like oh shit and he was studying it and he's like oh my god this is it and then they started making songs like my way they made one night while they were like six songs they made and what happened was monty took the

tape to the car afterwards and he sticks it in and they had a couple females in the back seat and they're playing like the six songs they just recorded you know they're bobbing their heads to a bunch and then the my way one comes on and you see the chicks going come over like on the first listen by the second chorus and they're looking at each other like oh shit like they're bumping it the shit's gonna go you know that's how it happens that's how it happens so they have this come up they were the biggest people forget this it wasn't that long ago they were the biggest thing on planet earth they were lovable fetty wop with the whole one eye thing like lovable guy fetty wop like i'll stop you there

yeah was so like embraced everyone was like everyone just was like yo he's such a nice guy like i love him he's like the best he's like so wholesome and i like all right whatever maybe some some things in the news have happened but like i still get that vibe from him and he was that like humble just like nice guy when he came out i don't know i just i just wanted to reiterate that like no i think it's a fair again i've never i've never met him i i don't know i only know what i hear from other people who know him, whatever. So really take that for what you will. My vibe I get is that we all see these stories of people who come up and fall off. And maybe sometimes it's their fault. Sometimes it's not their fault.

Sometimes it's both. And I think it can come in waves. But with him, he proved it with his his first platinum album which was the biggest album on earth what was it it's called it's called the same name they do that sometimes like do a leap his first album was called many many artists for decades he went against the music industry who were like oh let's put this artist on that let's put that feature i said no fuck that me monty and m80 he'll be on a song too that's it and made it platinum but he had a management company they all did because we talk about the young thug thing

where we talk about people in the studio just around from your neighborhood same deal here except these guys had some money right these were guys, when they were coming up and they had nothing and they were making these songs, these guys had money. And what was the, oh my God, I'm hitting some fucking blanks right now. What was the name of that? Oh, RGF, duh. Remember RGF Island was a song?

Like RGF Productions. Yeah. It's RGF Management, right? So 1738 yeah let me i'm just making sure so without alleging details here put it this way they're not with rgf they haven't been with rgf for a long time what did did RGF stand for? They got signed. It was, I forget. I used to know that, but I'll look it up later.

They got signed by, what was it? It was, what's his face? Lior Cohen, 300 Entertainment. Right? So Lior Cohen,

who a lot of people in the music industry is powerful. People don't like him. I don't know of him. I never dealt with him. But I think he's the head of YouTube music now. But he has 300 Entertainment after he got canned from Warner Brothers Music, where my guy was right before.

Yeah, that whole thing um but once he gets canned there he opens up 300 entertainment with a couple of the executives who also got canned with him they signed all kind of artists fetty wop was one of their first right when he was coming up they got him they made all their money on him and what they told him was get rid of everyone around you they're gone now by the way some of this forget who they are and what they're saying and why they're saying it some of this actually was good advice but that's a lot you know you bring someone on who's just coming up and you're like get rid of everyone around you and he's like well wait hold on a minute it's just not practical it's not practical so what they did

is they said oh yeah go fuck yourself and so they made all the money on him up front he had one of the biggest years in music history in 2015 ever like he was incredible everything he did was a hit banger whatever and then they pulled resources from him and then they didn't follow apparently they didn't follow through on some deals with some of the other guys. And slowly he got less and less action. Even when – like there were a few songs he dropped in the years after that that were bangers. Like there's a couple I'm thinking of that were like, whoa, didn't get the action they needed behind them. And so they kept losing more and more money. And 300 kept putting him down, down towards the bottom of the stack.

I think he still may be with 300 but you know and i'm not speaking for him now but it is knowing the details that i was told by not just monty but a bunch of people around the situation who i was able to talk to through luke servino who knows all these guys very well and has worked with them like it's fucked up. They are the ultimate story of the stereotype story of what happens in the music business when people get fucked. Yeah. I have one pushback on that.

Go on, please. I love Fetty Wap. That summer, everyone was bumping Fetty Wap. That summer, everyone was bumping Fetty Wap. I remember when I graduated, because that was like Trap Queen came out when I was graduating college, right? So I think it came out maybe the end of 2014. I don't know when it came out, but

definitely 2015, like graduation, everyone was like Trap Queen. That's when it was hitting the skates. Do you think... Fetty Wap has a unique style, right? Unique. You cannot mistake Fty wop for any other artist ever right do you think that got a little bit um the people once we got used to that it it didn't have as much effect no i here here's why i say no he is unique he's got a very like his hero was like gucci man or something again i don't that's whether or not that's true the wop came from that right i believe

because of the name because gucci main is known as guwop and i i have i've read gucci main's uh autobiography although he didn't write it himself what gucci main got his name from his father who was called guop fun fun fact fun fact that's it says it in the first five pages of his autobiography i know i mentioned this on previous podcasts with you but for people who haven't heard your previous episodes from the early days you're you are one of the most educated hip-hop heads if not the most educated hip-hop head i've ever met in my life so when you're talking about the legality of like cases that happen to about hip-hop people now you also like know all yeah i'm not just like some guy yeah i do i do want to i'm not just some guy like, poo shysty. I'm like, I like poo shysty.

Free poo. Anyway. Poo shysty, yeah. But you look at it, yes, there was some influence on that. And I agree with what you're saying in the sense that you always look at some sort of new way of doing something and you wonder if it's just a passing fad. However, with him, I don't think that's what it is. some sort of new way of doing something and you wonder if it's just a passing fad however with him i don't think that's what it is in my opinion and this is just my water cooler opinion evaluating the facts and when i've talked with them and watched some things that happen and kind of trying

to pull it away they made perfect songs when they were just on the come up, desperate to create, which is a beautiful thing. And I remember when Monty told me the My Way story that I just told a few minutes ago. In my head, I'm thinking, look at how organic that was. They weren't trying to make a hit. They were just in there recording song after song, and one them boom electric it hit right what happened afterwards is as time went on and they got less and less resources and were getting more and more fucked and they didn't realize they were getting fucked right away they started trying to create for a hit i have seen this in person in the studio i have watched monty who has a ton of talent and is somebody who i really like that guy

he's a great dude he's been great to me and again got really really fucked but i have watched him go to make songs and this is my opinion here he didn't say this but this is my take where he's making what he thinks people want to hear for a hit instead of the other one where I'm sitting there, you know, my fucking opinion doesn't mean anything. But in my head, I'm going, that's the one right there. And he's not making that. And so that is what also happened with WAP. And so he still has that unique voice and whatever. But when I listen to his music, it doesn't have that edge to it.

It doesn't have that just fucking trying new shit and feeling it. Like, listen to RGF Island, which ended up being, at some point, I think it was like even a top 60 song that year. It wasn't top 10, but like, he's just fucking going with it, bro. Like, there's no precedent for that song. And if you're a fan you listen to that you're like oh shit i'm in on this right now you know and they didn't they got away from that and i feel bad because i think that he felt oh i gotta make money i gotta i gotta i'm responsible for everyone

around me like and again i was never around him but this is just the vibe i got and now when you see something like this happen i'm like makes sense dude i will say this man um the fetty wop and also monty but like fetty wop obviously the the main you know you know he was the the main star i guess of that group the fetty wop brain just felt like it was over too short man it just felt like like i don't care who you are and like i said like oh did we get tired of it but like i think everyone at one point was pretty much everyone like our age was a fetty wop fan especially like from this area like i mean you know we're i'm philly but like we still got love for like jersey and shit but like it just felt yeah shout out jersey shout out jersey um i felt like it was just over too soon too soon it was just like all right fetty wop's here he came off like all these bangers

that were like the anthem of that summer like i have i have fucking like crazy memories to some of those songs like like that was a fun ass summer and not like i associate it with like fetty wop songs music and some stories like memories we can we could say off off the air but like but like it was just like it was over too soon man they went and did a worldwide tour it was the most anticipated tour at the time globally in music in 2016 and that was their peak because they got to play all the songs that made people's memories in 2015 for everyone around the whole country. And I believe they went to Europe and all that. At the same time that that was happening, there was an act that their team agreed to have as the opener for the tour, who was an up-and-coming artist. And these guys, they're really like – they're like, fuck it.

Yeah, sounds good. You think he's good? let's go and so at the first i don't know three or four stops they had on the tour the opener would go on and he'd play four songs and by the third song he was getting booed off the stage this kid he was young he was up. Had some things to figure out just like performing for the first time. I think he was like 20 years old. Sure. But Monty went to him after whatever it was, the third or fourth stop, and he goes, listen, that first song you play, all the women lose their fucking minds. It's nuts.

And like I can see it, and that's what's going to get the response. So he goes, i want you to play that first and fourth the kid's like are you sure like i don't know i'm playing the same song twice he's like just trust me just do it so then he starts playing it first and fourth now when wop and monty are coming on the stage they're getting a standing ovation the whole way and they love this kid he was from a totally different background, completely different life circumstances, had a different musical style. But they really, really liked him. And they'd hang out with him on the tour buses and between stops and whatever and to this day admire him.

And the crazy thing is that kid was named Post Malone and that song was White Iverson. And the next fucking thing that happened is his album comes out and that album ended up being the number one album I think in the world for a time and that song was already going to catapult him but the confidence that he got from being able to play during that vibe that is how strong Fetty Wap and Monty and the Remy boys were at this time they could sit in there and see the talent in this kid and say, hey, we just go out there and do what we do. They weren't thinking about anything.

They just played and people lost their fucking minds because the songs were insane because there was no effort to it. And they're like, you just got to do that too. And you're even going to do it one song. And then that dude records all these other songs that he puts into an album. And the first one comes out. Was the first one Beerbongs and Bentleys or was that the second? The first one was Stoney.

So this whole time, Post is recording Stoney on there. That's the album. And boom, the rest is history. And so I always think about that. And Post and M80 had a good relationship because M80 had a lot of range like Post did. And I'm always like the ride that having the high and the lack of effort and the confidence that can come with that when you're up there allows you to just create and do and be loose and whatever. And then fast forward four years later after all this bullshit behind the scenes that no one knows about. I'm watching Monty in the studio stressing over which one to make. And in my opinion, he's making the wrong one because he's trying to do what people want because they fucked him into this position where that's what he's got to do.

It takes away the entire thing that built them in the first place and i have a lot of empathy for that because the expectations were so high and people don't understand all the bullshit that has to go into actually making these things get to the mainstream they don't understand that taylor swift is putting 50 to 80 million dollars behind marketing on one album at the beginning outset radio marketing really oh yeah they don't understand what goes into this like we're gonna watch it now with meek mill meek mill i want to find out what happened here i don't know brian mcmonigal didn't know it happened right when he was in here shortly before but like meek mill left rock nation which was very shocking now he's doing releasing i guess like independent

we're gonna see how much money he puts behind that and how well that music's able to do not on the merits of how good it is but how much it can reach based on the money that they put is there bad blood between him and rock nation it doesn't sound like that i will say that it doesn't sound like that at all yeah they were together july 4th at ruben's party having a good time when this had clearly happened look jay-z jay-z are you talking about jay-z and and okay yeah yeah um jay-z's a billionaire man like he doesn't like at this point to me it seems like he's just trying to like help and just like mentor other artists you know what i mean whether like and i like i think it's a good you're in a good spot if you're on signing jay-z's label but i don't

think jay-z's losing any sleep over anyone leaving his label you know what i'm saying i think he's like he's he's done yeah he's done what he's needed to do but um yeah man meek mill has not released an album in a long time in a long time he's due he's giving out he'll give you these singles these snip like i've heard some snippets man the snippets are fire they look good Give me the album. Yeah. They look good. I think that's another thing. His whole thing, he released Champions shortly after coming out of prison when the whole thing I'm thinking, is that his last album?

Is that his last album? Did he have a... Let's check it. That's his last album. That was the end of 2018. That's because that was the year after he got out. Man, I'm going to get fired up about Meek Mill right now. No, he released Expensive Pain in 2021, but it wasn't.

Oh, yeah, it was. No, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was good. That was good. But it wasn't his best work. What was that song with Lil Durk on it? Oh, dude, that's a banger. That's with Lil Durk and Lil Baby.

Yeah. What's it called? I think it's changed is it changed something locations something sharing locations sharing locations yeah that's right i think james harden was in the was in the booth for sure yeah but yeah i'm gonna be curious to see what happens some of the shit he's been releasing like little snippets looks fucking why does why does like a little baby give james harden like money for his birth i just don't get that that wasn't a little baby giving that money come on now like you don't know what that was what is that i don't know is it it's just for like the gram just like to no you do realize

it's just for the strip club like our sixers now have the best setup ever you do realize that right yes michael rubin who is before he was a small owner in the group oh you're on some conspiracy no this is very simple it's very straightforward who's who's an awesome i love i fucking love michael rubin i love his grind i love he built everything himself the guy's amazing but he had to sell his steak yes because he's got yes he's got a private business yes i understand that but he had to sell his stake yes because he's got yes he's got a private business yes i understand that so he had to sell his whatever it was seven eight percent stake in the sixers who before he's an owner he is a lifelong diehard fan of the team sure friends with everyone on the team none of that changes he's now invested in sports gambling

and some nft rights i believe like digital assets for players so it's it would be in violation of the board of governors agreement for him to remain an owner so perfectly handled everything beautifully yeah he's out he's still the biggest fan ever he's worth seven eight billion dollars now i would put the money 10 years from now for Michael Rubin to be the richest American. I'll put my bet on that. He now gets to tamper for free. No one can stop him. He is friends with every big player in the NBA.

And so James Harden takes a deal where he cuts his pay so the Sixers can afford to sign PJ over the summer. And now suddenly Lil Baby's giving $250K in cash on video to James. Come on. Well, come on. I don't know how Lil Baby factors in there. Because he's one of Ruben's best friends. And Ruben goes, listen, I'm going to give you something you can give James as a present. Here you go. Just a little starter.

I don't know. I am kind of seeing your conspiracy theory there and this is a this is a minor conspiracy theory but it's a conspiracy theory james james no hard evidence dory james harden launched his wine company a few weeks ago i guarantee you michael rubin ordered 1600 bottles the first day probably you're probably right but i do see there i'm like oh shit like yeah he's just like a billionaire who can just do what he wants now because he's not affiliated with any team formally. That's awesome.

That's fucking great. Yeah. And it's no coincidence that the NBA filed a tampering investigation against the Sixers right when he left just as like a goddammit, well, we got to hit him on the way out the door because now he can do whatever he wants to do they can't stop him he can literally send out a tweet standing next to LeBron James in a picture and be like please sign with the Sixers and you can't do fuck all about it and he's got billions of dollars in his pocket and if he wants to pay LeBon james 50 million dollars or throw some money towards his charity for 50 mil and say hey remember that when free

agency comes up next year i think he just signed a contract but remember that when you're demanding a fucking trade next year and we're gonna draft bronnie or something like that he can do it yo what if we drafted bronnie lebron would have to come because that's he already said it yeah that's his goal he's gonna play with his son be kind of cool that would be cool be very cool damn right i have high hope for the sixers man i do too i think we had to get rid of that uh metastasized cancer of an individual we did and uh i think yo i think yo i don't think he's gonna do you think he's gonna play i think he's gonna play another nba game i've had this conversation i don't care yeah why are we even wasting our breath i think listen man i i don't i don't know

what happens behind the scenes i'm very not judgmental of professional athletes and stuff. We don't always know the details. You're right. But fuck that guy. And I'll say his name, Ben Simmons. Let's call it what it is. In my opinion, if I end up being wrong and it's provable that I'm wrong in the future, my apology will be louder than what I say or have said in the past. But when you go and fraudulently use a loophole of a mental health clause in the MBA PA,

which was put there for people who legitimately go through serious mental crises to be able to use as an excuse, not an excuse, as a viable reason to not be able to perform the duties of their contract and still get paid. When you go and do that, strictly because you're too fucking scared to play, fuck you. That is one of the lowest things you can do. He is a me-first guy.

He doesn't give a fuck about anyone else. Just look what he did to his second team when he refused to fucking play in the postseason. I dipped out the group chat. I don't even want to hear it. My thing is, do we think that Ben Simmons is right mentally, though? What is evidence supporting that? Because when he played with us, he obviously just couldn't perform under pressure.

He just could not perform in the playoffs or any pressure situation. He never seemed like he was. That was always the question mark it was like like it wasn't even the fact that ben simmons like wasn't a good three point shooter it was that he had like some mental block against shooting three pointers right like he couldn't even bring himself to do it it seems to me like he probably isn't right mentally he probably isn't like there's a huge difference between being a head case with the yips and having a mental health crisis and trying to blame like he wasn't if that was the case he would have gone and said my mental health problem is that i have the fucking yips and

i don't have the confidence to play on an nba floor which by the way could then be an issue in in his argument there but that is not when you associate that with someone who is and by the way not to say he hasn't gone through shit off the court I do know for a fact it's been reported there there's one thing in particularly I'm thinking about that was very heavy that he dealt with it's really disgusting situation I don't even want to bring light to it but it was bad right i'm not familiar with that but whatever it had to do with his sister and his brother so you can do the math there but yes he he did have something like that happen and for a while that was something that i took into account but when you look at the actions mental health was never a fucking problem until suddenly he realized oh they're not gonna pay me then he said i have a

mental health problem and then he refused to see the mental health professionals that the sixers had with them they had it was like pulling teeth to get them in there and rich paul got him such a fraud bro yeah such a fucking but but you look at a guy who's not making decisions that benefit himself if we if we really look at it it's a guy who like who liked it left a franchise like under disgraced terms with like basically the lowest value he could have right he performed horrible in his last playoff game like performed horrible like left a awful taste in the people's mouths didn didn't play at all last season, and didn't refuse to play for Brooklyn. Like, granted, the whole thing that, like, it was game four.

Who were they playing? Celtics? Celtics. Yeah, it was game four against the Celtics, and they're like, we're texting a group chat. You gonna play, Ben? Like, what the fuck is that? Like, you can't just put someone in

game four of a playoff, like, situation. Like, I don't think in any scenario you're just like all right ben here's your first game that you were supposed to look at playing game three the reports have been out they kept pushing back weeks and weeks i know but like in the playoffs so like yeah and to be fair rick buecher reported that he stands by the report he was very angry at some of the shit that came out shams sh Sharanya tried to say that never happened. Who's another?

Is that how you say his name? Shams Sharanya? I've always read it on Twitter. I don't know how to pronounce it right. I'm sorry if I got that wrong. But the other thing is Shams is in the pocket of Clutch. Like you look at his report. And I'm not even blaming him.

I'm like that's a main source for him. So he goes with what they say. So look, I'm not really sure what to believe on that one. But either way, the slippery slope of suddenly saying it's okay for a professional athlete to be like, oh, I can't handle the pressure. I'm having a mental health crisis. I'm going to take off work and you still have to pay me. That doesn't work, bro. It doesn't – life is not. That doesn't work like that.

That is not having. Like if you look at what's happening to Gabby Hanna right now online. That is a mental health crisis. She is having a. And I mean this. I'm not saying this as an exaggeration. She's having a manic psychotic episode. Something went seriously wrong.

I don't know if it's substance related. I have no idea. But something is very very wrong. From a human being perspective perspective i look at that and i go oh my god like let's get her help that is the type of thing that ben simmons is alleging but all the while he's dating his girl throwing house parties at his house, having a good fucking time, playing pickup down at the Fittler Club in Philly, watching the games allegedly, and none of this was a problem until suddenly they wouldn't pay you? Oh, but he even, once they started not paying him, he even showed up to Philly when he said he wasn't going to,

and then he claimed all this stuff. And then he gets to Brooklyn. The videos of him just at practice. Come on, bro and then oh he gets traded to brooklyn and he can do the press conference day one no problem face the media i'm having a mental health crisis but by the way let me answer all questions no problem ben 10 let's start i just there's something about someone taking advantage of people with legitimate mental health issues that will never fucking sit right with me. I agree with that.

I agree with that. But yeah, I mean, Ben's like, look, I'll be honest. If you're rooting against Ben Simmons, like I think you're going to have a good time because I don't think he's done anything to benefit himself or his career in the past year plus. So like, you know, I don't think we're going to see much of him anymore. I think he's just going to kind of of him anymore i think he's just gonna

kind of fade out i think he's kind of absolutely tarnish his image um i i don't i think he's tarnished his reputation he's he's already proved he's a head case right like it's it's it's hard enough for him to like even shoot a jump shot right like he's not gonna like what he's gonna come out and be better a new animal work hard i just don't see that like i don't see that from ben simmons so i think uh the best is behind him the problem with him is that he was terrified he is terrified of failing anything he is not he is unwilling to try janice antetokounmpo I think I actually said it right For the first time there He Is not a natural shooter That motherfucker shoots

Yeah he shoots He keeps going baby And now he can actually shoot A little bit Right And he's got That's what happens man That's what happens in life man

You just start trying something enough You get kinda okay at it Exactly You don't get You know He's not gonna win The three point contest But you know

He's You know MVP of the league baby Yeah you're Champion You can't leave him ungu to win the three-point contest, but he's... MVP of the league, baby. Yeah, you're... Champion. You can't leave him unguarded on the three-point line. Right. And so Ben doesn't have that upstairs.

And I don't know... I don't know that he'll... He doesn't have that it. And the biggest thing, and I paid attention to this. I don't know why people don't talk about this all the time he signed with clutch sports right in college before he was the number one pick lebron james used to talk about him all the time young king remember that yeah he was a mentor yeah yeah you know the last time lebron james mentioned him in a post

i think it was all-star weekend 2020 when he was required to because all the clutch guys took a picture at all-star weekend after 2018 it died it used to be all the time stories posts died down died down because and lebron's not going to say this and that's perfectly fine i understand that but you But, you know, kid don't got it. He's like this guy. He used to say early on, this guy has the ability to be the next great one, the guy who can do it all. He don't got it, though.

It's not up here. He don't want it. LeBron, look, a lot of people give criticism to LeBron, compare him to Jordan, all that. LeBron did want it. LeBron works his fucking ass off. No, LeBron, yes. LeBron compared to Jordan, all that. LeBron did want it. LeBron works his fucking ass off. No, LeBron, yes. LeBron has a champion mindset.

Yes, that's certainly a debate, but it's absolutely like a respectable opinion to say LeBron's the greatest basketball player of all time. Sure. And that's not, Ben doesn't have that making. And the saddest part is ben simmons when you take into account physical assets and on court abilities from a raw perspective coming up in the league at age 19 could be the most talented person i've

ever seen you're you're not wrong there was no there was no reason why he shouldn't be a top five player to ever play the game he'll never be a top 25 player in the league because he doesn't have it i think he was a top 25 player there was a point where i could argue he was 23rd 24th 25th sure he won't be again though that's for damn sure that's what you say and I think you might be right about that yeah I just think it's facts I just

I just don't see him you know what's he gonna come out next year and just be like I've been training hard working hard like new Ben Simmons

like that's not gonna happen yeah yeah I don't know the case a while back there were two cases I was mentioning we got into the

Fetty Wap thing though yeah the other case that I tabled for We got into the Fetty Wap thing, though. The other case that I tabled for a minute was the Henry Ruggs case. What's better than a well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well- marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue

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And the context was, I tabled it because that was a state case that's in Vegas. He's the Raiders wide receiver who – Yeah, drunk drove, yeah. On video, BAC, everything. Drove a car 125 – no, it was 156, I think, miles per hour. You're crazy. On the Vegas freeway. It's like a Corvette, right?

Yeah, whatever it was. It was some sports car. Last October, killed a poor girl. I mean, he burned her like a bonfire in a car. It was horrible. It's all now almost a year out from when he committed the most obvious crime ever. And it's still not set for a trial date. It's not set for a trial date? Let me double check that. It wasn't like a month ago. Henry Ruggs trial date.

Let's check that. Nope. No trial date let's check that nope no trial date they made the last significant ruling where they have to allow the bac on july 12th but no trial date and this is again video of his car driving Video of him sitting at the scene afterwards with the car burning in the background. Evidence of the autopsy that proves that this girl and her dog were burned to death. They weren't dead when the fire started. It's one of the worst causes of death ever. And you have his blood out. I forget what it was, but it was high. His blood alcohol content was taken at the scene by the cops. as fuck how is he not on trial yet i mean excuse me i mean i don't know that you

can definitively say okay he needs to be on trial an x amount period of time like we we talked about this a little earlier we said you can waive certain rights. You can move to continue certain times. yeah, it seems like the way you presented it, it seems like a pretty open and shut case. And I'm sure it is. And I'm sure some of that is like deliberate,

deliberate, um, uh, postponement. I don't want to say, you know, I'm hesitant to say like deliberate, just like,

like delaying. Cause that's kind of not a, like a good thing to just delay cases and that's frowned upon. And, you know, as far as lawyers and courts and stuff, but, um, yeah, I mean, you know, that case is a pretty sad case. I mean, he was, uh, very under the influence, killed someone, and the outcome at trial is not going to be favorable to him. He's going to spend some time in jail. I think there's no way around that. So yeah, I mean, he's, at this point, he has as much incentive. He's probably paying his lawyers by the hour, and he's just like, all right, fight this, fight this, fight that. And the lawyers, they'll do it, you know. They'll advise him. I'm sure like a competent lawyer will advise him and

say, look, I don't think we have a chance of, I don't think we have a good chance of winning this. I can fight this. I can argue this. I can do this. And he's probably, maybe he has some of that NFL money still. And he's saying, you know, fight this, do this you know it's it's a shame I mean it's it's it's uh you know it's a shame that the the young lady lost her life uh so it's so sad man yeah so sad yeah and it's like you know it's a huge mistake that someone he had no previous record he was a great everyone loved him great guy made an awful decision and the craziest part is he makes the awful decision but if you look at the facts of the case if he had even been driving at like a not good rate like speeding 70 i mean it's a car accident she's probably fine and he's gonna he

actually probably will do like a month in jail or something but like you know he might even play that season after an 8 game suspension or something not to excuse any of that but 100 no no no no I'm saying if that happened Dante Stallworth did the same shit

no Dante Stallworth did not Dante Stallworth that shit happened in Miami people get mad at the fact oh he only spent 3 days in jail Dante Stallworth did not. Well, Dante Stallworth. That shit happened in Miami. Yeah. People get mad at the fact, oh, he only spent 30 days in jail. And if I were the victim's family, I might feel the same way. Do you know that Dante Stallworth slept overnight somewhere and then drove home in the morning and happened to be still slightly under the influence? Yeah, and I know exactly the road that he, because it was on macarthur causeway which is a road you must be crazy if you're walking on that road

i rode my bike on that one because there's a bike lane there i rode my bike there once and i was like uh it was like so sketchy and like and he i think i don't think it was a hit and run too he like stopped and rendered aid and like did all that stuff he did kill someone though it was unfortunate and he was you know under the influence when he did it it's a tough one it's a tough one yeah i don't think you know that's one a lot of people thought about but he was again another guy zero record well well-loved dude had all kinds of character witnesses in his favor and he felt awful about it feels awful about it to this day and you know he's gotta live with that but holy shit was the intent not there on that and there wasn't it wasn't like i don't think the intent's there on either on any of them but the difference is you're making the decision a lot more like reckless type conduct right you're talking with with rigs right than you are with stalworth man exactly

exactly with his it's tough i i actually you know i mean he killed a guy but it was hard for me to disagree with the decision because again he slept it off and then i mean how many times think about this serious question and anyone out there listening can think about this too how many times have you partied slept somewhere and then in the morning you know you're hung you you're hung over right right? You drive home. I ain't going to sit here and tell you I haven't done that. I'm pretty sure I've never been legally at the limit when I've done that. But do I know that for a fact of all my life, including high school?

I'm not sure. Yeah, I mean, look. That's a tough one. That's a tough one it's a tough one um but yeah i mean i try like um so like part of the reason i have a job is just because like so many people getting like drunk boating accidents right i don't think you'll ever be able to fix that like because like there's just too many variables on that one there's just too much there's just like a road is like all right you have a stop sign you have a like pavement you have this you have that there's no brakes on a boat there's no like stop signs there's it's just like if the you know the water uh you know the waves are different whatever like it's just like i don't know it's just something it's something i've always thought

of because it's like pretty much everyone on a boat in miami has like has like a beverage unless you're going fishing no that's that's quite literally well i mean before you're actually right when you go to go fishing yeah that's fair when you're coming back from fishing it's different and weeds the whole other thing too like that's can you get do you see dwi cases of weed with boats no i haven't seen that that's the way yeah yo you know what's wild i have some hot takes on weed all right right hit me first of all i don't like i'm not against weed at all i think it should be illegal i think everyone should do what they want but people think it should be legal legal yeah not illegal okay i think it should be legal yeah for adults of you know 21 is an

arbitrary age i think it should be 18 same with booze but anyway people always say that it's not like uh no one no one's ever died because of weed that's just not true if you google there's many accidents that happen because people just smoke too much weed right right and people just refuse to accept that and they're like, what? No, weed makes you a better driver. It's like, yeah, for some people it does. For some people. For some people, yeah, I get it.

If you're stoned, you're like 10 and 2. You're on the wheel. You're super turn the music down, super check both ways 10 times. You stop like 500 feet in front of the stop sign. I get that that makes you a safe driver right i get that um but the if you look at the stats some people definitely and like especially like younger people have gotten too high and like gotten in car accidents like if you just google the stats yeah no no no and i'm not saying a real thing and i'm not saying like i i'm not even saying that

you shouldn't even be able to drive like after smoking weed i'm just saying that you shouldn't even be able to drive after smoking weed. I'm just saying that you shouldn't say that it hasn't ever happened. That's all I'm saying. That's all my... That, what you just said, is a separate conversation from no one's ever died from weed consumption. Yes. I just want to get... Actually, I don't have any hot takes on weed.

I don't think that's a hot take at all. I think that's a pretty fair take i've i've been to states where it's legal before whatever shot colorado yeah i've been to colorado on the first day it was legal you can do you can make whatever whatever you may infer from that information i've you know you can you can refer infer you didn't break any laws it's okay whatever you know i don't know. That's one of those things. It's like at this point on a consumption basis, the fact that it's not all 50 states legal is like, it's so stupid.

It's like, what are you doing? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, it is what it is. But that's the one thing. It's like there should be, like, people think it's like this. There's downsides to it. There's so many downsides to weed which i don't like i i

hate when i've like i've said this to people before because people are like oh weed helps me sleep and i was like if you do the research and like you can you can do the research right now um it you don't get any rem sleep when you're on weed you don't you don't get any rem sleep if you look it up i don't know that i've ever made this argument weed. You don't. You don't get any REM sleep. If you look it up. I don't know that I've ever made this argument personally, so I don't have any attachment to it, but I believe you. I've never looked it up. It's like, so, for one thing,

it may help you go to sleep, but you don't get as restful of a sleep, so now you just gotta weigh the options. And like I said that to someone, and that person was like, what are you talking about? Like, just got mad at me. I was like, I'm just trying to say it. Like, does it depend on the cut you use? I don't know.

I know you don't get REM sleep on it. THC like inhibits REM. And I know that it lowers sperm count for men. Really? We does. Yeah. I didn't know that. There's negatives to it, but I'm not trying to be like, I know people, I see people in

the comments, whatever, getting like... Fuck that. Don't worry about it. I just like to fucking have intelligent conversations and just paint the whole picture, right? That's why I like talking with you. Yes. Because you're fair. You're fair.

But I think weed should be legal and smoke weed if you want to. Yes. And it's not going to harm anything, really. Because you can... I'm not saying those same arguments you just made but for plenty of things you you can make the negative arguments with perpetual alcohol use yeah staying up too late's not good for you you know i'm just saying like yeah it's you know even that yeah i'm not saying you know there's anything really that bad i wonder if the eight sleep offsets the weed

problems though i wonder if when you sleep on an 8 sleep, you get deeper REM even if you smoked weed. You gotta do some empirical research on that one. I'm just saying, Matteo over at 8 sleep has to take a look at this because he might get a new wave of customers. Yeah, in Colorado especially. Exactly. We're gonna table that one.

But before I get you out of here, you're one of my China guys, looking through China stuff. Oh, I got one thing i wanted to bring please go ahead sorry this is do it all right europe energy crisis did you hear you know what's going on with the europe energy crisis germany and russia and and all that and all the gas the the skyrocketing energy price did you hear what's happening in france no they're nationalizing their power companies taking that shit all right socialism in france you have my fucking happen you have my attention that's it's google it it's how does it have to do with china nothing but i just you, we're talking socialism, communism. All right, France nationalization.

I still like that you brought this up. Nationalization of, it was all energy, you're saying? The power companies, yeah. Okay. This is from Bloomberg. Good source. Good source on finance matters. Let's see. I wonder if this is written no it's not okay

france offers big premium in quest for swift edf nationalization investors are offered 12 euros a share by the government eds problems have exacerbated europe's energy crisis so i'm guessing it's because shares are at historic lows or something the french government offered a premium of more than there it is more than 50% to minority investors in Electricité de France, I don't know if that's a French accent, but we'll try, seeking a swift nationalization of the troubled company

that is the backbone of the country's energy policy, the 9.7 billion euro, 9.9 billion dollars offer, which at 12 euros, a share was at the upper end of expectations is intended to bring the nuclear power generator back into full state ownership as soon as mid-october this is from july 19 2022 by the way allowing the government to push ahead with long-term investments in carbon-free energy kevin gallagher thoughts so right now they pose it as like hey we're doing a business

deal let's buy these shares from we yeah so like i just wonder if that's how it's going to play what if they're just like no no what do you mean who's like no the energy company right well they're talking about the investors here right is this the minority so when they say minority investors i don't want to fuck up the terms because maybe I'm thinking about this wrong. But minority investors, are they referring to all like the mom and pop investors who own shares if enough of them agree at a shareholder meeting? I don't know if it works the same in the French stock market though. I don't know either, but it sounds to me like it just sounds sketchy the the bottom line is the theme is here there is a strong let's say threat that nuclear energy and i guess energy as a whole like different

companies here are going to be nationalized as you said yeah and that's how communism starts that's how socialism starts it's just like the government says and it's always with the energy companies at first it's like it's like oh let's take just the energy companies just the oil companies let's take that first and they're not taking it yet i guess they're offering but we'll see i don't know offering i thought this was super interesting in a story that i thought went kind of on under the radar i just wanted to bring it up on the pod. Dude, that's why I love you're here. I've never heard of this.

This is wild. This is potentially wild. But again, little devil's advocate here. France is already somewhat of a socialist country. There's a difference between socialist and welfare state. Yes, that's fair. So all these – when people say like, oh, whatever, like this country is socialist, this country is socialist. No, they're still capitalist.

They're just like a welfare state, right? They pay exorbitant taxes. They have exorbitant government benefits. But in the end, you can still open a business, right? A socialist country is the government just controls all the means of productions. Yeah, this is where the left meets the right with things when you look at the far extremes. And I would call that when you go pure social, that's a far extreme. And it usually, usually devolves into a form of communism.

And what happens is when you look at that would then like fascism great example would be russia it ends up being the same thing in a different way which is so interesting to me because you know we try to look at this stuff through certain lenses and then you know we're paying attention to one issue based on the label maybe not paying attention to another issue and then we get caught with our pants down because it's like oh well shit that's kind of the same thing what it all comes down to is who's got the GDP and where are the number one places we gotta be

paying attention to right there we go yeah yeah so this thing you sent me though maybe I'm misremembering this oh shit on IG yeah yeah did I send you something on IG did you send me something on IG I don't know if it was IG the video you i send something did you send me someone i don't know if it was a video you sent me something maybe it was text ig i don't know there were a couple

things the one was like a stream lab that they've set it looked like straight out of a black mirror episode what was the deal here i just sent you that on ig but so apparently in like china as i understand it you want to see something that looks like sorry go ahead you know how we have like um like qvc or whatever in in the us like we have like you know a shopping channel yeah all right so like well like their amazon is like kind of mixed with qvc right where they have this like like weird kind of mixed with QVC, right? Where they have this, like, weird kind of blended, like, you go onto this website and it's constantly people using products and, like, marketing products in these live streams, right?

So their commerce, it's like TikTok meets Amazon, basically, in China. And they have these giant, like, labs where it's just, like, all these, like, influencers in front of 100 different mini screens, right? A filtered screen, effectively, too. Yeah, yeah, where they're all just like, look at this new hairbrush. Look at this new makeup. And it's just like a factory of this stuff. And the one dude they were saying made billions from it.

All right, I'm going to stick this video in the corner. If it ends up having copyrighted music, you're going to hear a skip. And what I'll do is I'll stick the link to it in the description so you can watch it yourself. But this is an example of what you were just saying. Yeah, it's wild. Here we go. All right. Let me turn up the volume here.

Give me one sec. There we go. Something that looks like it's right out of Black Mirror. What you just saw is a stream factory in China. Apparently, there are over 700 million e-commerce live streamers in China who make a living from commerce streams on websites like Taobao, which is the Chinese equivalent to Amazon.

There are streamers like Austin Li Jiexi, also known as the Lipstick King, who had a seven-hour live stream where he tried on 380 different lipsticks and sold over $1.9 billion US in product. So obviously this can be very lucrative, although it's not for everybody, but for obvious reasons, it's a very desirable career for a lot of people, which is where these influencer incubators come in. Companies set up to grow, train and manage potentially calmer streamers.

Some are obviously going to be a lot more professional than others, but seeing as this one looks like it was set up in an abandoned parking lot, well, I'll leave that for you to decide. But because some of these women don't have the money to pay for their own phone, equipment, makeup, and products, they'll go to factories like this where everything they need for is paid by whoever's in charge, and then they'll spend 8 to 14 hours every single day just live streaming different products. That is all for this video, but if stuff like this interests you and you want to see more like it, I'd really appreciate it if you click the plus. Thank you. And they do. I wonder if like they're to play a little devil's advocate here of like a lot of places are doing something like this. What about like in the US? What fucking show was that in that I'm thinking of where it showed it? You don't see it on the Internet when you see this shit and like on like porn sites and stuff but where where these girls will stream and shit of like they'll do like a stream of like them touching

themselves and whatever and like people watch it and i'm not talking only fans i'm talking like when they're literally sitting in front of a camera and i can't remember what show showed it but when you zoom out there's 50 rooms right there or 50 beds, and all these girls are next to each other doing the same thing. It's not a hell of a lot different than that, and I'm talking about shit that happens in America. It doesn't surprise me. I mean, if there's money and there's, like, ways to exploit this shit, like, yeah. What's wild to me is, like, china it's clearly popular like you go onto like an amazon website instead of just seeing products there you have live streams of people using these products

and marketing these products shit like we like we should jump on that like i mean seriously like it's gonna come here man like that's just where it's gonna come like you know like eventually you're gonna have dudes just like you know like some dude trying on lipstick sold 1.9 billion i don't think we can even fathom like how like it's absurd what's that what's the like revenue for like revlon or something like i wonder what their yearly revenue is and they did he probably did that like like a good chunk of that in just seven hours right that's i wonder how much the how much cost the individual products let's say he was selling three products i wonder how much they each cost how much the net like were they twenty dollars a piece were they thirty dollars a piece and then extrapolate that across a 1.4 approximately billion chinese population how many people would have had to buy it to get to his 1.9 if you have network

effects and you have a huge following and then also if you do one of those things like i'll keep the stream going as long as another person buys a product because people do that shit like so then you just like keep it going like i'll try on another lipstick like whatever i don't i man i can't even begin to pretend like i understand that culture and like what that is but all i know is like look we're we're going like down into the society as far as like attention span and just like i need to be immediate like always fucking like stimulated and satisfied so like i won't be surprised if in two years you log on to Amazon and it's just the same shit. But they said they're doing that in, like, an empty parking lot or something. Yeah.

I mean, this is the same country that, in geographics, I forget the exact comparison between the U.S. It's a little bigger than the U.S. Maybe significantly bigger than the U.S. in, like, square miles or whatever. But either way, 1.4 billion versus 350 million densely populated this is the same country that's building fucking cities that are desert towns with no one in them is like an idea because the state has all the money and then like some of them just never get used and they're like i will just knock everything down i mean there's some wild shit going on there and you got to remember only what is it they've hacked your phone by now i mean there's some wild shit going on there and you got to remember only what is it they've

hacked your phone by now i mean what are they dude i'm worth 8 500 i'm a fucking jersey if you're worried about me i salute god bless do what you got to do you want to whack me i'm not worth anything i got no family yet good time to do it knock yourself out like i i don't have time for this bullshit but there are people who are actually important unlike me who I do wonder what kind of security they have because maybe they actually are a threat to like talking about somebody. If I get a couple videos at 20 million, it's still like a fucking one video, right? It doesn't do much. But guys who have enormous platforms who are talking about this a lot, I wonder what kind of precautions they take. They're not as desperate as I am to look at them. I got people like telling me well just do it to do it i'm like okay whatever

but you know the power that the reach of cyber security has now cyber lack of security has is it's nutty and it's not just russia of course it's as you were starting this off with china's a concern and shit like that i mean it's the it's the biggest concern and i've every pod i feel like i've been on we've we talked this um yeah china is just they're just like obsessed with like undermining the u.s and undermining like any other country that gets in the way you know you were the guy who alerted me about their official social credit system. When you did that, I had never looked into it. Really?

Really knew nothing. Now it's a main, you know, people talk about it a lot, you know, in relation to things. But there was another video. This was a while ago. I just saw this when I pulled up the other one because I was going through DMs. You remember this one behind you? Oh, the cameras. Yeah.

All right. I'm going to play it. Again, if this has copyrighted music, you're going to hear a bump, and we're not going to play it on the podcast, but I will put the link in the description in that case. Otherwise, it's going to be in the corner. Jesus Christ. Dude, so that in and of itself is scary enough, but what scares me is like, and I guess we're going down this road.'s do it is um

the fact that like with digital currencies so like if if the u the u.s treasury dropped a digital currency or like we just all switched to digital currency the fact that like and i'm sure this happens in china i think they could just like freeze your bank accounts or whatever but like like if you go to an all digital currency that's controlled by the state then they're just going to stop you from spending that on on things that are like you know what you you are not socially worthy enough to spend your money in this way you have to spend it here like like you go to buy like whatever you buy like you know say say you're like overweight and you go to buy like a pack of bacon and they're like like sorry you can't buy this like there's just like infinite ways that that could just go off

the rails and and yeah i mean the fact that they have 700 million cameras if this video is true i don't know the authenticity of this video and i don't think china's just putting the stats out there please check that out people i will check it out myself yeah there but we're watching yeah i mean it's just a random like ig thing i saw but yeah it's uh yeah yeah wow so that that actually quite literally and i'm not somebody whenever i've watched a black mirror episode i'm very impressed it's great show i've never sat down like watch the series what you just said is quite literally a Black Mirror episode, though. I've seen it, where there's a, I think it's a red-haired woman. She keeps on getting turned down because she ripped somebody or something like that. She got mad at someone at an airport.

It started that way. And then she wasn't allowed to buy a ticket. And then it affected her everywhere. And you see all these different credit scores popping up around people so it's kind of scary how accurate that is but the cbdc's argument is dude there there was a podcast rogan did the saturday before the ukrainian invasion that's i remember when it was. It was with Majid Nawaz. I hope I'm saying that right. That guy is a brilliant dude from the UK. There's a whole backstory with him too.

And he speaks very fast. So you may have to listen to some things twice because he's moving at a million miles a minute. But that podcast has some of the most important information in it from a publicity perspective you'll ever hear on a podcast depending on how things turn out here but he talked all about the cbdc's and what it would allow these governments to do should they defeat things like bitcoin and the entire crypto space with psyops and stuff like that right because they view the digital world the same way we do and it's inevitable move to that we're already in the midst of it and they want to get out in front of it so when you look at things that happen like the collapse of some of the crypto quote-unquote

projects that we saw and some of their collateral that happen to be tied to uncontrollable things like bitcoin that hits your head and you go i wonder what's at play here because i've always said this and believe me i'm sure i'm parroting a million people who say it a different way or perhaps the same exact way but once a government doesn't control money what do they control you're right not shit so if you're saying that this right here is tied into something like that I don't know man that's that's a dark dark potential future impossibility to me china ain't going nowhere we just got to stop them from like taking over taiwan honestly that's our biggest that's the

biggest victory we could practically hope for 2024 china's gonna take taiwan yeah i mean they're they're certainly acting like they're about to they're ramping up they're like doing military exercises right over taiwan airspace like yeah and like they're pretty much not like they're they're pretty much saying that they're like they're actively maintaining that like taiwan is part of the People's Republic of China. Scary times, man. Scary times. But I enjoyed this, as always, brother.

It's great to have you in here when you're in town. We got a great breakdown of the Young Thug case tonight, among other things. Yeah, man. You got to come out to Miami sometime, bro. I know. I can't wait. Get on the boat, bro. I can't fucking wait.

Boat's in Miami. I'm in. Yeah, we out here, bro. I can't fucking wait. Boat's in Miami. I'm in. Yeah, we out here, bro. We'll hit the... What was the rap lyric with the Delano from... Was that a Puff Daddy song? It was... I just bought the Delano by P. Diddy.

We're going to get Bungalow 8. We'll be good. Yeah. Straight. I'll show you some better spots, bro. Oh, listen. There's some other great spots too i'm just saying that's a good like home station hey you got hey it's right next to the beach you got your

format that works yeah that's what i'm saying like they come right in there they serve you and they get everything loaded like a buffet you know there's people coming in and out no problem hey no problem good vibes get nico back down there too have a good time yeah good shit we'll do it all right brother thank you as always all right we'll see you again soon No problem. Hey. No problem. It's good vibes, man. Get Nico back down there, too. Have a good time. Yeah. Good shit, man. We'll do it. All right, brother. Thank you, as always. All right.

See you again soon. Dab it up. Everybody else, you know what it is. Give it a thought. Get back to it. Peace. Peace. Peace.

Peace. Peace. Peace. Peace. Peace. Peace. Peace. Peace.

Peace. Peace. Peace. Peace. Peace.