Just Trish - Moses Hacmon Reveals the Meaning of Life & How He Fell For Trisha Paytas

Episode Date: February 15, 2024

On this very special Valentine's Day episode, critically-acclaimed artist and 'Just Trish' co-host Moses Hacmon finally sits in the big pink chair! The water droplet king himself reveals the meaning of life, as well as the secret to making his marriage with Trisha Paytas work. Plus, he spills the tea on his wild days before fatherhood–from dating in high school to partying in the desert at Burning Man! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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little quieter, a little soft-spoken this episode so I don't get picked up into his microphone. But aside from that, he's one of my favorite people, the best person I know, my baby daddy, and my husband, Moses Hackman. Did I say your last name right? Yes. Am I talking soft enough? Yeah. No, I'm not there to adjust the levels. So we're matching levels so it doesn't seem like i'm excited it's because i can't like my husband no you can't you can't we're an asmr podcast for the lovers at home for the lovers at home this is the asmr podcast it's very chill vibes here today because it's literally just me and Moses and it feels almost... Well, now it's chill. Until now it was chaos. Yeah, we had a photo shoot.

We had interviews with people. Malibu didn't want to leave your side. I couldn't find an outfit that fits. Happy Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's Day to you. My forever Valentine. You look so good in all pink. What? Couldn't find your white shirts either. That was a crisis. Honestly, I like this one. I like the gray and pink. What? Couldn't find your white shirts either. That was a crisis. Honestly, I like the gray and pink. I like it too. It's giving 50 shades of gray. Well.

Wow, babe. Will you be my Valentine? Oh, yes. We filmed this. This is going to go after Valentine's Day, so they're going to be like, I'm a little late. Okay, we'll put a little slide. It was filmed on. Before Valentine's Day.

Thanks, babe. It says, my wife. Oh, my gosh. It's with an accent. My wife. I saw this. I thought this was a little decoration. I know.

I was like hiding it here. It's not what you used to do. Well, it wasn't hidden. Organizing things. We had our photo shoot. Oh, my gosh. Oh, babe. To my wife.

To my wife. You already did so much. You decorated the set the bear aww a little ASMR this card actually this card

just kind of had exactly what I wanted to say on it so we're so isn't it funny how they know

how to do that card companies yeah they're pros we're so good together I love the way we know each other heart and soul

i love our shared dreams our wild adventures and our perfect moments side by side i love growing closer as time goes i'm gonna cry already i love our yesterdays our todays are forevers and most of all i love you that makes me cry i don't know why thank you i feel the exact same way i'm gonna be emotional i'm like oh gosh, this is like, sorry if I'm like looking at myself. Because it's like, it's flipped around now. Yeah, usually I see the screens, but no. I mean, you're kind of in my close up, but it's fine. I was distracted because I was like, what is on the side? And I was like, oh, it's you on the side. We love you in my close up though. Oh my God, this is so cute. Oh my God, I'm going to like cry. Thanks, babe. We said no Valentine's gifts this year, but. I saw this one and I was like, well, it just fits so cute. Oh, my God. I'm going to like cry. Thanks, people. We said no Valentine's gifts this year, but.

I saw this one and I was like, well, it just fits so perfectly to you. Wow. See, but that's the thing. Every, all year round, you always, like you'll come back from the mall or from anywhere and you always like bring me a little gift. You're like, this is reminding me of you. That's why I don't, I don't even care about gifts because you give them to me all year round. So on holidays specifically, I'm like, I don't need a gift. You you give them to me all year round so on holidays specifically I'm like I don't need a gift you can always give me gifts

and I love them I do love gifts but I realize love language speaking of love my love language is acts of service because Moses used to be doing the most for me and I just fell more in love with him everyday but yeah so this one was an eight infinity like and i haven't seen that

before when the infinity is it's usually the other way usually it's horizontal oh my god that is infinity is vertical so you get both your number eight and infinity. And I don't know. It was just perfect. This is like, you're right, because it's always the other way, like the emoji and stuff like that. Yeah, you have one that's like 888 or it's like, yeah, it's horizontal. But this is A infinity, and I love A infinity. It's an eight year this year, 2024. Oh, my gosh.

Thank you, babe. I love eights. I do. Every time I see an eight, oh, my gosh. It's so, yeah, every time I see an eight, it's just like a sign. I love eights. I do. Every time I see an eight. Oh, my gosh. Every time I see an eight, it's just like a sign. I love the abundance. I'm an eight baby. I was born May 8th.

88. I'm really eight. I'm very eight heavy. Thank you so much. And you like infinity, the symbol. Oh, my gosh. I do. Thank you so much, babe.

This actually is so perfect. Right? I mean, you can't pass that. You can't be like, no, this year I'm not getting it. Oh my God. Maybe my most favorite one yet. Thank you so much. I have my mom locket on today with my little heart one.

It fit perfect today. But this episode is not about me. It's about my guest. And I was like, everybody's been wanting you as a guest. And I've been very like, not hesitant because it's like, I love it, but I feel like it's so hard to interview your spouse because... It's probably, it's kind of like not an interview, but I mean, I'm on the show every time. Yes, you're always on the show.

We did do interviews before in our past, in my past podcast. You were a guest on my podcast, like, I don't know, probably three weeks into meeting you came on and I was very shocked. Oh yeah. Well, I guess quarantine started. So we were like, what do we do? I don't know, probably three weeks into meeting, you came on and I was very shocked. Oh, yeah. Well, I guess quarantine started. So we were like, what do we do? I didn't have any guests and Moses was one of my guests. And it was so cool because like you were pretty private back then and we were private.

So I thought, oh my God, you want to be on a video with me? I thought that was so cool. Yeah. I mean, we made videos before we were actually together. Like dating. Yeah. Well, I mean, we were together, but. Yeah. I mean, we made videos before we were actually together. Like dating. Yeah. Well, I mean, we were together, but.

Right. But I'm saying before we got engaged, before we, like. Oh, before we dated. Yeah. We pretty much made videos from the beginning of our journey together. We did a lot of stuff from the beginning, babe. Before we dated. But no, it did feel nice. It did feel nice.

Because I always thought like what we started as was like a hookup and then the fact that you wanted to do like videos with me and you come over and have dinner with me I was like oh maybe this is more because it was it was like quarantine and you know you didn't think anything like dating I know I mean I just felt we're so lucky because like we we just had a guest that you know went through a breakup and moving in alone and then quarantine started that would be we were kind of like the opposite we were like alone before our whole lives and we met the day before quarantine started so two days before we were so lucky to like have each other through that whole time i had no idea did you know

quarantine i didn't know quarantine was coming i had no idea lockdown was even a thing i didn't pay attention to the news i had no idea i didn't think quarantine? I didn't know quarantine was coming. I had no idea lockdown was even a thing. I didn't pay attention to the news. I had no idea. I didn't think it would be that big. But at the beginning, they said, oh, it's only going to be two weeks. Right. You know, we really thought, oh, just two weeks. It's not a big deal.

Life will go back to normal. But for us, life never went back to normal. No. Okay, so we should tell our story. I feel like so many people, like, don't know our, like, beginnings. And that was – we have some fan questions too. We'll get to. But that was a requested one was like the love story for people who don't know. I love telling it. I feel like we tell it a lot. But I think ours is so unique DM'd you. And I never checked my DMs, but there was like something that I like went to your page and I just was like, let me just check if this person's ever messaged me. And you did. You had just messaged me like a half hour before. Yeah. You replied to me so quickly.

I was shocked. I was like, what? How did you even see that? Right. And it's weird because I never, I never would check my DMs or anything like that. And it was a Friday night, I remember, and I had my glam done. And now you know how important glam is to me if i have glam on it was like i have to go out from glam and so i really wanted to see you that night but we did talk all night we like texted and yeah we texted a lot we texted like we were on ecstasy that night because i was like in my garden you know watering the plants texting you i was just really you were so intense basically you were my company that evening you know yeah it was almost like a date and You know, watering the plants, texting. Really? You were so intense. Basically, you were my company that evening, you know.

Yeah. It was almost like a date. It was. We have the first text. I should have, you know what? I should have actually written it down. I have my phone down there. But remember we looked at the very first ones.

It was so intense. Yeah. We just jumped into it. It was like, I don't even know. There's something like with Romeo and Juliet. Then Hugo, I follow you. There was some serious stuff. It was.

And like knowing you now, I'm surprised. Like knowing me, you know, I'd be like that intense. But now knowing you, I was like, wow, that was so intense for the first night for you. Well, I am an intense person, but also sometimes I match the person in front of me. So it was that combination of matching your intensivity. In my what? My intensity. I like it. And then we went out the next day. You took me out. You picked me up from my mom's house because my mom lived close to you. Yeah. Kind of drove around the block a couple of times to make sure I'm in the right place. Oh yeah. We saw you. We watched you. And they were in the balcony kind of looking out.

Yeah. My sister saw you circle a couple of times. And then I came out and I was so nervous. Yeah. But I guess now I know. But at the time, I didn't know. You didn't know I was what? That you were nervous.

Really? Now I would be able to tell. You couldn't tell? I was like so nervous. I guess I... You were just kind of very shy, very quiet, very... Yeah. Yeah. I had taken X um xanax not just because of the date but i was just like taking a lot of xanax back then and um i was just i was nervous i was just nervous none of my relationships working out i was just i was just messed i think it was like a year and a half of like

not dating we're just hooking up with like awful people that didn't like me so i think i was just nervous i don't think i was like on a real date in years before that date. That's why the day before when you was like, kind of like, let's, let's meet. Cause you were like, you know, full glam. You want to be like, I want to meet now. Yeah. And I was like, no, we should go on a date. Like you should, you know, make a reservation somewhere, pick you up, go on an actual date.

And you took me on the water. And I did sleep in my glam that night. Cause I was like, you know what? Tomorrow you'll see this glam. It looked pretty good though. I have pictures even the next day. No, you look beautiful. Thank you. I was, I was, God, looking back, I was like, God, I did look kind of good back then. It is crazy. You still look good. But quarantine was rough for me. I think, I think I just hit a snag in quarantine, but then got pregnant. And then it's just like when people say the glow up so i don't know the globe is now the globe is now we are married we met at the pandemic 2020

march 2020 so it's like almost exactly four years we got engaged that year bought a house the following year um bought two houses really going on our third house and to have a baby and went on the way. Yeah. And we got married. So it was, you know, we moved quickly. We have a pretty good, we're accomplishing a lot fast. Oh my God.

As far as a couple. Yeah. It's kind of amazing. I mean, we're on the accelerated course, you know, I think when the older you get in like a good way, and we heard this even from one of our guests who was like 30. She's like, you just kind of know more what you want and what you don't. So you're just able to cut to the chase quicker.

And then, of course, us, we were just older, and it's just like me. I was ready to have babies, and you were kind of at that pace. Even though when we first dated Moses, we were definitely not rushing into the babies. I was going to rush in. I was like, let's just have babies right now but um it's just like yeah you know kind of know what you guys want and what you don't want and yeah I mean I did rush into the relationship but I was like I don't know I was like there's a couple of steps before a baby yeah that's all I was like yes babies but you know maybe a house that is our house and getting

married and then having a baby. It was good, honestly. It was like the right order. Right. Well, I mean, I guess people have their own paths, but it was a great order for us. Yeah. No, I mean, it made it more stable and comfortable. And that's what I mean by the right order. Yeah.

It felt. You know, we weren't moving when you were either about to give birth or having or setting up a new house when there's an infant in the house, you know. Oh my God. Now, again, everyone has their own path, but like thinking about having like Malibu, because it is beautiful to have your kids at your wedding. I do think that's really cute. But having her at our wedding, it would never, I don't even think I'd make it down the aisle.

Malibu would just be like, you should be the bride. She'd be like, I'm sorry. This is my Abba. Okay. So, you know, it all did work out good. We'll have a vow renewal or something where they can all be there. Yeah, no, I mean, I'm down to get married as many times as you want. Well, we did.

I think we did too. I'm ready. We'll do more. We have a few more plans. So, yeah, that was our love story. And then, you know, stuff just happened that summer. It was a wild summer. I was wild and learning each other.

Well, I had no idea what I was stepping into. And to be fair, 2020 Trish, that time when you met me was just like a totally different, I mean, than any time in my life. So it was a wild ride for myself too. But we made it through and you saved me. That's really the test of it all that we made it through it's crazy everything that was possibly that was yeah everything possible that could have been thrown at us was thrown at us yeah it was it was a little rough what was your

first impression of me in general in person the first few weeks, online? Well, I knew that when I'm going to meet you in person, you're not the person online. And I didn't know you much online. Like I didn't know because I'm not, like I just didn't. That's why that was the problem. I didn't know how famous you were. I don't know if I was that famous. Yeah. Yeah.

No, but I didn't know. So had I known, it'd be easier to actually navigate through everything, but I had no idea. So- You didn't research me? But I didn't know. So had I known, it'd be easier to actually navigate through everything, but I had no idea. So... You didn't research me? But I didn't know. No, but I did know that you'll be a real person. You know what I mean?

Like I'm coming to meet a real person. I'm not coming to meet some internet persona or some crazy something. Like I just knew you're a real person and I knew that knowing what you accomplished in life, I knew you were smart. You know, like I knew, okay, you know, don't let anyone fool you. This is like a smart, creative individual that... life i knew you were smart you know like i knew okay you know don't let anyone fool you this is like a smart creative individual that um yeah so i came with very open mind and ready to meet you and then like i said you were very shy and quiet and you know beautiful and i don't know but i had

an immediate like something because i feel like our connection is almost like has a past life in it, you know? Definitely. Like I had an immediate like wanting to care for you and take care of you and all those things. I could feel that for sure. I feel like, yes, I was a little out of it on our first date, but I felt intimidated more so because I thought, oh, he's really smart and he's really this.

And it's like different than anyone I've dated. So I was just like, ah, I don't know. I also just was like, you were so different than anyone I've dated. And just like the sense that you weren't in like entertainment. It's so crazy how creative you are and how like I came to know that later. But like at the time I was like, oh, I don't know. Like he's just so different. Cause you were just very, but you were the opposite.

You weren't shy and quiet. You were very like talkative and almost like teacher vibes, like professor vibes, like lecturing. Like, and that's like why we're smart. That was the phase. Yeah. That was the phase I was into. The phase.

It wasn't a phase. What was your phase? The lecturing phase? Yeah. Cause I was like doing that online. I was doing, I don't know. I was like, I was learning a lot at the time and I was like teaching a lot of times. It was like a lot of that happening at the same time. And I get, when I get excited about something, that's all I'll talk about. So like, so had you met me,

I don't know, two years before that, I would be talking about water nonstop. You know what I mean? Right. You were in a different. Like when you met me at that point, I was talking more about like, you know, the human psyche and stuff like that. Yeah, that you were. You were analyzing. You were like going deep. Yeah, so it's like wherever I am at that moment, I'm just there. I don't, it's kind of like. You have that in common.

Naturally flows out. Yeah. What phase are you in right now in life? Husband, dad phase. So if you were on a first date, you would just talk about your wife and kids. You and my kids. That's a good phase to be in. My wife is amazing.

My daughter is so smart. You should meet them. Isn't that crazy? I know. I think about dating, whatever, just single parent, divorced parent, whatever. I couldn't do it. I would just talk about you the whole time or I'd talk about Mal. I think most people would find that annoying if it's not there, obviously, if it's your

ex-husband or something, but I like that phase. So let's go back to the beginning. What's your first phase in life? Like what was your phase? You're dating in high school. What are you talking about on a first date there? I don't know. Well, in high school, I was very like hyperactive.

You know, it was very like physical. I had to be on my bicycle rollerblade. I had to be outside all the time do things i was very much like this was hard to contain me so i think anyone i dated back then had a real big challenge of like either keeping up with that or even wanting to be around that they had to keep up with your what were they doing rollerblading with you yes exactly well you had a girlfriend high school never get into details I don't know any details. I would love to know details. But like what, I always ask him this. I'm always like, what would you guys, you remember it always be like, okay, so like pretend like I'm your high school girlfriend.

Like, how would you flirt with me? How would you whatever? And he'd be like, you could never do the role play with me. I'm like, did you have a girlfriend? Yeah, because I think it's almost like you in a way of like the small town mentality of there's not much to do, you know? Yeah. So we would either hang out together and watch a movie or go out to watch a movie and stuff. Like it was very simple. You didn't have like conversations though? Like if you're on a date? We definitely had conversations, but I think back then it wasn't as, yeah, I don't know.

It was just very simple conversations. It's more about life, you know, because you go to schools. It's about people at school and things that happened and work. I think it was a lot of venting from the other side. How did you? This happened and that happened and this person did this or that. So you're kind of the same person back then. You're kind of listening and offering guidance to your high school.

No, but people change so much, you know? But in general, yeah, I've always been, because I'm the oldest brother, so I've always been the person that you come to if you need help or issues or stuff. But I'm the opposite. I never had anyone to go to. So I don't have that. Whenever I have a problem, I solve it. I never share it with somebody else and try to get help. Yeah, I guess as an older sibling, that would be the worst part about it. That's why I was always glad I wasn't the oldest. Cause I always thought, Oh, like when something happens to our parents, I don't want to be the one to deal with it. You know what I mean? Cause I think. Yeah. But no, I'm happy about it. Cause I feel

independent and free, you know, like no dependency on anyone in the world. I mean, you're, you think you're the only older sibling I've ever like dated. And it's so nice because it's just like, you just take care of everything. I'm just like, oh, he's going to take care of it. He's going to handle it. And it's like reassuring. Yeah. Because I mean, I did it for myself anyways.

Yeah. So it's not like, you know, it's not like any difference or a chore or something like that. Do you still keep in touch with that girlfriend? No. It's fine if you do. No, I have no idea where she is. Oh she is okay i'm surprised they don't come don't you ever surprised like your girlfriend from high school doesn't come like i'm always surprised kids from high school never come out about me and not even bad just like oh yeah i went to high school

trish you've never well for you maybe for me i'm not that famous or important for somebody to kind of like nobody will care someone like your girlfriend from high school has definitely seen you and you think she would just want to. Oh, I don't know. I don't think it's definitely. I wouldn't say that because, again, when you go back to small town mentality, they don't really see everything. Were you always so serious as a teenager? Yeah, too serious, yeah. Back to high school, you.

Were you eating Domino's in high school? Definitely eating a lot of pizza in high school. Did you guys have Domino's? Maybe a different kind, like a different chain. We definitely had like Pizza Hut. Oh, okay. Yeah. Maybe that's why I still like Pizza Hut more than Domino's.

Maybe. High school memories. But you are, I think you're one of the funniest people, and I think people see that on the podcast now. I think people are like, oh, we see more Moses personality, which is like surprising to me too. Cause I never, I never thought you were funny until like maybe a year into our relationship. I was like, oh, he's really funny. But you come across so serious.

But were you like, did you have that same sense of humor in high school? Like as a teenager, do you think people would consider you funny or were you, did you never show that side? Cause you say you show it to certain people. Yeah. I mean, I'm in a, in a way i am a clown you know like and not like austin mcbroom clown no not in that sense but in a sense of like in my mind there's always a joke there's always it's gonna be a clip of you being like in a way i'm a clown it's like oh no

but there's always there's there's always a joke in my head going around whatever happens around me we're doing stuff like i'm always joking with myself in my head. You know what I mean? So it's just there. But then I think because most of the time I'm serious, and when I deliver a joke, I'll deliver it in the same seriousness. So it either comes off as weird or misunderstood, unless somebody realizes, oh, that one was a joke.

That was not a joke. This was a joke. And then it's not a joke. This was a joke. And then it's funny. But otherwise, because you say it yourself, sometimes you see me say a joke and it goes over people's heads. Right. I try to laugh for you. I'm like, oh, let me give you a laugh.

No, it's fine. I'm fine with nobody knowing I made the joke. You do sneaky ones. It's actually really funny. Or quiet jokes. Sometimes you do a quiet. We had dinner last night with like a bunch of friends, which we never do. It was like eight people. And sometimes you make little quiet jokes. Sometimes you do a quiet. We had dinner last night with like a bunch of friends, which we never do. It was like eight people.

And sometimes you make little quiet jokes that only I hear or something. I'm just like, is that for me? Or is it just a quiet one you're trying to slip in? Like, I need to say this joke. You're pretty funny. I do think you're funny. I think you have a good sense of humor. That's why I would love to know like teenage Moses.

But I wonder if teenage Moses and teenage Trish would have gotten along just even as friends. Probably. I think most likely in teen years we would have. In our 20s we would not. Because you were judgmental too, you said in your 20s. Well, we were just so different. Yeah. We are the opposite as far as a person.

But similar. Yeah, but on a surface level, when you see a person oh right we're opposite yeah so if i would have seen you i would not think in any way that that's for me you know what i mean like it was that answers one of our fans questions who literally was like did you see yourself marrying someone like trish i haven't written one of my things no so back then no it would be the exact opposite of what i thought. But my thoughts were wrong. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And I think that's the biggest thing about relationships is like what's good for you is not necessarily what you think is good for you. That is definitely true. And in general, don't follow your thoughts. They'll just mislead you. But like there's a, I don't know, it was a big surprise to me that we, like the way I felt about you when we met and the way I felt about you after and all that. But again, I saw you, the person outside of all the glam, you know. Yeah. And all the shiny objects and the pink things and the, and it's a completely different thing.

There's a completely different person in there. But what I'm saying is that the judgment would have kept me away from seeing that. Because I would be stuck in my judgment of you and not get that deep to see who you really are. I think that's a lot of people. I think they just judge the outer. And that's what's hard about being online or just being a person in general is getting that past that initial judgment. That's why it's hard for people to date in general. It's just like, especially on dating apps, you're looking at a list of things and you're

like, well, no, I don't like that about them. I don't like without having to like get to know them. Because like, yeah, on paper, it's completely different. Then if I met somebody that was exactly like me, so they would be like the same, basically, and it happened like the same person, right? Same interest, same everything. And it was just so boring. It was like being with myself, you know, there was nothing interesting.

There wasn't any new thought or interesting idea or like everything was just the same. There was no challenge. Definitely no challenges. Yeah. And I think, yeah, I wouldn't know how to deal with that either, having someone exactly the same as you. I don't know. We have a balance. We have the yin and yang, which is very much you.

Scorpion Taurus. Yes. It's very you vibes. What are your thoughts on thoughts? You said to not let your thoughts like guide you too much anyways in general about love, but just also in life. Well, it's very clear and very easy. Every thought is a lie. There's not one thought in your head that is actually you or for you.

They're all against you. So the only thing to go by is it's kind of like you can say maybe a gut feeling. That's the closest thing to describe it, but it's not words in your head. If it's language in your head, that's the closest thing to describe it but it's not words in your head if it's language in your head and you're that's that's the opposite that's like um yeah like if you if you see the world as like a spiritual world of like good and evil or god and the devil whatever evil is the thoughts right and the goodness comes from within interesting so like the thoughts because we have them all the time you know and why do we have them all the time, you know, and why do we have them all the time if they're, like, these inherently evil things,

you know what I mean? Why can't we just, like, shut them off? Well, it's not, I mean, we don't have them all the time. It's more whether or not you tune into them. Yeah. There are very few things that you can be certain of in life, but you can always be sure the sun will rise each morning. You can bet your bottom dollar that you'll always need air to breathe and water to drink.

And, of course, you can rest assured that with Public Mobile's 5G subscription phone plans, you'll pay the same thing every month. With all of the mysteries that life has to offer, a few certainties can really go a long way. Subscribe today for the peace of mind you've been searching for. Public Mobile. Different is calling. The new Mitsubishi Outlander brings out another side of you. Your regular side listens to classical music.

Your adventurous side rocks out with the dynamic sound Yamaha. Regular you owns a library card. Adventurous you owns the road with super all-wheel control. Regular side, alone time. Adventurous side journeys together with third row seating. The new outlander. Bring out your adventurous side. Mitsubishi Motors. Drive your ambition. So think about your head is like a radio. There's lots of channels broadcasting all the time. And you can tune in to one of them and suddenly feel horrible about yourself, or you can tune in and feel happy about yourself, but they're both equally bad. Right.

Like it's not you. It's a channel you're tuning into that's not you. So it's always out there, and the key is just to ignore them. Actually, just ignore them. It's not about fighting them or trying to figure out what, like anything you'll do is just another thought. Right. Just let it pass.

Trying to fight a thought. Right. Yeah. So I usually say it's like the clouds. Just watch them. Let them go. You love clouds. Like comments on the internet too.

I don't listen to the good or bad really. I try not to interact too much with them. Yeah. So you just watch them go by. And as they go by, suddenly you find yourself. Suddenly you're like, oh, now I know who I am. I'm this thing that is watching the thoughts. Yeah.

I'm not the thought that is running myself, my head. I think that's like such a thing I learned later on. I feel like I learned it later. And that was like something you always kind of knew was like these things. And we both found that. And I was like, it is so true. When you stop listening to thoughts, it's like you just can be, you can just exist, which is like kind of the beauty of life.

Yeah. And I didn't always know it. I learned it later in life. But I definitely let thoughts run my life for a long time. And it was horrible. It is. It's like that's being like a prisoner in your own head, I feel, which I think is like one of the beautiful things about you.

Okay. Water. Why and where did it start? And what's your love for it? Let's start with the why. Like why water? Is it just like a cup of water? Is it any water you see?

Does it excite you? Yes. Yes or no. Okay. No, I mean, the water is the best symbol for our soul. Right? So even if you don't believe it, let's say you just want to use it as a placeholder, as a symbol. is the water is the best symbol for our soul, right? So even if you don't believe it, let's say you just want to use it as a placeholder,

as a symbol for the soul, it's a good way to talk about the cycle of life and our spirit and our soul, who we are, what we are. But I believe that the water is the soul. I think that's the actual thing. You know what I mean? So it's not the rocks. Like on Earth, when you think about the planet, there's water and there's rock. That was the beginning of life.

There was nothing else. And then the water breaks down the rock and builds little things. And it builds plants and animals and people and, you know, the story of Genesis. So water is the thing that is alive and rock is a thing that is not, it's just passive. So I think we grew up thinking the opposite that, you know, we're ashes to ashes, dust to dust, but we're actually water to water. And for me, water is a symbol. Not only that is also the symbol of our equality of how much we are the same. So the water in your body is the same as the water in my body. The water in your body has been into millions of bodies before that.

It's been here from the beginning of time. It's the same water. And on the other hand, the soil, which is our skin and bones and all the things, that's not who we are. So I'm not my body. I'm not the skin, whatever race, gender, sexuality, all those things. That's not who I am. My identity is my spirit, my soul. And my identity, it's easy to say it when you use water, is water. That's what I identify it. So I don't identify with my body.

I identify with the water. Where did that come from though? Was it like a, like a, just you're searching for something. You're like, okay, I don't feel like connected to this. Were you like searching for something that led you to that? Because that is, I love what you said. I think so many people can agree. Like we're not our body. We're not our gender. Like I agree with it, all that stuff like that. Fluid, all of that stuff. But what was it that led you there? It's probably the initial search for, I don't know, you can say maybe God, maybe search for the magic in life, maybe search for the higher, the something else, you know, what else is there that's bigger than me,

that I belong to, that what's like the active force in nature? What's making everything? What's doing everything? You know what I mean? Like you're just seeking. You know, I was a seeker. So it's like looking for meaning and wisdom and all those. And you landed on water because of like Genesis, like you were saying.

You're like, okay, well, that started it. So we must be that. Like I'm just trying to feel how you got that element. It was actually more scientific at the beginning because I studied architecture. And then my study was about trees. Like, what if a tree is a building? So who's building it? So that's when I first came to water.

I was like, wait, water is what's building the tree. Like every cell in the building is like every cell, basically a single cell is like our house. It has walls, it has a shape, it has functions, but the thing that dwells in it, that actually lives there, is the water. And then all the pathways are pathways for water. So water is like the people, cars driving around, getting into the cells, living.

So suddenly I realized the whole of nature is basically one big, like a city that's built by water. And then, you know, as life evolved, it doesn't want to be like a tree is stuck in one place and it's dependent on whether it's going to get the sun and the water and the food. So the next step is to basically be freedom of movement. So we are walking trees, basically. That's the idea. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense in that regard.

Yeah. You can go to the water, get it. You can go and get the food. Yeah. You know. Well, even, you know, we're pregnant now and like seeing like the baby be just in fluid, like it's literally in water. Yeah.

We're still made in water. Your water breaks. You can't make babies. Yeah. Without water. Like that's where babies are made, life is made. Do you ever get sad that you'll never have your water break? You can never feel the rush going through you?

I was definitely sad the majority of my life that I could not have babies. Actually? Yeah, because I was single. There was a point where I didn't think I would get married. Because I thought maybe I'll just all my life seek knowledge and teach or you're a seeker like i'm not gonna be i'm not gonna settle down and have a family and kids and all that so i thought and i saw i remember my neighbor um she was very successful and she was single and she just went to the bank gets permed she had a baby and i was like wow, wow, I can't do that. Like that's really, yeah.

I mean, I guess you could find like a surrogate and stuff, but yeah, it's a whole different process. Yeah, back then there wasn't that, but also it's not the same. Yeah, but I just always meant like, like I just think like physically, because it is, when you talk about like the, back to the water, I did,

it is because my water did break down, everyone says, and it is kind of this weird thing where it's like rush of water. And then that means like, okay, baby's coming. And when you talk about the deepness of it all, all that, it is weird that they're breathing in water. Water births are considered very natural because they're still breathing in the water. Right. So you're literally grown. You're literally growing in that.

It's a little sea creature in there. Yeah. And I just feel like it is such a cool experience so i was like oh man maybe you're sad that you never get to grow life in water in your body i remember one time i was because i used to give a lot of lectures and one time it was in the kindergarten and i showed them the pictures of the water and told them some stories about the water and this one kid raised his hand was like and i didn't even say anything about that it was like i remember when i was like a dolphin in my mama's belly.

Really? And I was like, I was shocked because kids know. Kids know everything. You know, they forget it over time. Interesting. But it was like a three-year-old. And I was just like, oh, my God. I feel like, yeah, you might.

Some people can like recall those things. I mean, there's a reason I feel like we can't remember these things. We've talked about this because it gets real spiritual, you know, like the secrets of the universe. Like when Malibu was first born, she really seemed to like know so much about where she just came from. She would look at things and follow it. Like she sees more than. Oh, she would see stuff. And so it is interesting to see that.

And you're just like, there's a reason we don't remember because I feel like you just came from this place, like wherever you want to call it, but you came from somewhere and you don't remember it, but it's probably for a reason because you're not supposed to know the secrets of the universe, maybe too much knowledge. Well, we're here for a purpose. So basically while you do that, you're here to do a job. So when you do that job, you can't, like if you saw and knew everything, you wouldn't be able to function. That's basically.

Because life is more about like the experience. It's like horses, you know, we put blinds on their sides because they get too stimulated. If they see too much, they get too stimulated and they can't focus on the work. Yeah. That's why they have those things on the side. That's what I love about you. Just like random facts that, you know, like that's why the horse have blinders. So we have blinders too. And that's, that's part of our journey here. So what age are you discovering the water philosophy? Because I don't think I've heard anybody. You know, I read so many of those books. Like, I don't think I've heard anyone.

Do you know of anybody that you like watched? I mean, now it's definitely more mainstream now. It started, well, when I was in college. So I was there from like 2002 to 2006. I was doing all the study. I think 2007, 8, after I graduated, was like the big breakthroughs that I made and like the ideas that I was trying to get to or discover.

And then 2013, the year of the water snake, that's when I discovered faces of water, how to photograph water. Like that came, to me, it was like a gift from water. It's like, okay, now that you know us, here, you can also see it. How did you remember 2013 was a water snake year? Because I just knew it was going to be the year of the water snake. I was like, something big is going to happen.

It happened the first day of the year. Oh, you knew. So it's kind of like us knowing it's like the wood dragon this year. You knew it was going to be a water snake. So you're like, okay, something big is happening. And how old are you around this time? And I'm a snake. That's my year. Right. So you're like, this is going to be, yeah, I'm a dragon like, okay, something big is happening. And how old are you around this time? And I'm a snake. That's my year.

Right. So you're like, this is going to be, yeah, I'm a dragon. So like, this is my year, you know, you're like aware of it. But you're like a fire snake. Is that what you are? So this is like water snakes. You're like, okay, this is going to be a big year. And how old are you around this time? Probably 35 or something like that. Which you also said was your best year. I didn't know. I wasn't doing the math in my head. I think in general, yeah. Most people like you come to your own at 35 because like that's when the also said was your best year. I didn't know. I wasn't doing the math in my head. I think in general, yeah. Most people, like, you come to your own at 35 because, like,

that's when the person you want to be and the person you are usually meet. So 35. I'm 35 right now and I test that. I'm like,

oh, I'm such in a good place and, like, I feel, like, content. Like, I feel, like, you know, just good. Like, I just feel good existing. Because, like, 29 to 33

is, like, the Jesus years. Right. That's where you discover everything and make it or break it kind of thing. Yeah. And then 35 is where everything kind of settles down and you're like, okay. Okay. So 35, water snake year.

And this is Faces of Water, which always confused me when I met you. Your website is facesofwater.com. Yeah. Which is back up and running now, you guys. I saw you work at it the other day. Yeah, it's an old one. Yeah. I need and running now you guys yeah it's an old one yeah i need to revamp it but it's an old one but yeah at least you can see images and stuff is it a literal okay so well we can just get into this then so water photography this is an original no one else has done this no and so faces of water is the name for your would you say for

your photography or would you say for like the whole exhibit or your art? The project. That's what it shows, I think. So when I first saw it, so I used to do a lot of experiments in my apartment. It's almost like in a way kind of alchemy and stuff like that. So it's like I used to just do a lot of experiments and it's very intuitive and it's, it was like with water and different elements. So I would try different elements in the water and, and plants and all kinds of stuff. And it was like a laboratory. And then one day I did something and I saw it and I was like, wait a minute. No,

there's no way. And then I repeated it again and again and again. And I would literally see faces coming through the water i would see different shapes and forms animals plants everything that you know in life coming through the water and then so immediately i didn't even have to think about it i was like these are the faces of water we are all different faces of water you know because it's like water is the thing and it comes through. And these are the faces. These are the expressions of water. So, yes, I discovered that technique. And, you know, people are always funny.

They're like, wow, you didn't invent photographing water. I'm like, yeah, you can take a photo of the ocean. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is like water is clear. You can see through water. Like light goes through water, which on its own, it's a magical thing. Like water is denser than this wall. How like light goes through water which on its own it's a magical thing like water is denser than this wall how is light getting through it why that's that just doesn't make sense so um so i realized that to see water you have to capture the movements in the water

right because water is always moving it's standing still. And if you capture those movements that we don't see in the water, then you start actually seeing what form water has. Because it's almost like the wind. Yeah, you can't capture it. So think about it like spirits. Like the ocean is the pool of all the souls and the spirits. And they're swimming in the ocean and they're moving. And then you capture those.

You capture those movements. And each movement has a different character and intention and that comes through and yeah so you're able to be the first person to capture the movement of water yeah before me there was attempts of um masaru emoto he captured so again, you can't take pictures of water because light, every camera works with light, so you can't use cameras to take pictures of water so he froze the water into crystals and he took

pictures of different crystals and then he realized once you do work with water, that water is reactive and it's alive, so he would play different music and different things and see how the water reacted. You know, that was big. You know, like there was a bottle with the word hate on it or love. And then we take that water and freeze it and take pictures of the crystals.

But the flaw in all that is that, you know, it's like me telling you, if you want to learn everything you need to know about the human body, here's a frozen body. Water is about movement and water needs temperature and heat to be alive. So he basically took away the temperature and the movement. It didn't quite capture the same natural flow. Definitely. Water is so beautiful that in any form, so especially like snowflake crystals, it's amazing. It's beautiful and you get a huge variety.

So it's easy to assign any kind of character to that variety of shapes and forms, but it's not really capturing the spirit of water, you know? Right. So there were different attempts and there's still people that freeze water and take pictures of it and different type of things. But what's unique to my method is that it captures it while it's actually moving and alive and you trademarked it you never even you haven't talked about how you do it but yeah i don't tell how i do it because it's like you know that's my thing yeah but um i

know how i think you finally told me did you tell me the full extent of it yeah but i think what what you can know is that the film that is used to capture the water is affected normal film film is affected by light it's actually silver like when we take photos there's silver in there and silver is sensitive to light so when you take the picture the light burns into the silver and you get an image a negative of an image and with water the film that I invented is sensitive to movement because that's what you want to capture. But just water, just the movement, not you moving, like if you're moving. No, just water. And then the film itself has to be flexible to the movement

too, because it needs to go into the water and capture a three-dimensional movement. So we have a liquid film that's sensitive to movement that goes into the water. Right. And the film itself is made out of nanoparticles. So it captures, you know, where are the pixels? It captures. Please put that in there. There's no pixels actually. There's no pixels.

Because it's movement. It captures the movement to the finest, smallest particle. So that's why the images are so fantastical. Like they're so fine like a lot of when i started people thought that i was painting them or that i was computer generating them like they were like this is not real right there's no place in the world that you can generate something like this to be real it has to be made up and you never showed yourself doing the technique because i feel like people if they saw it yeah well my my plan was the evolution of the work is to do it live.

Like basically like a big performance to have huge bodies of water and to do it live and to do it with people. How big? How big of bodies? You couldn't do it like an ocean. Like people couldn't watch you in the ocean. No, like big tubs of water. Kind of like an exhibit. So I can basically make it on the spot.

So I can make a huge tub of water, capture the image, and then bring it straight out of the water onto the wall. That'd be really cool. So the plan was to be kind of a performance where that happens in front of your eyes. Right. When you see it happen, it is magical. It is absolutely out of this world to see it form in front of your eyes especially if you like right away move it up and you're just like and how long you said form how long will it take to form is it instant it's instant yeah so what you see when you bring it out is exactly

what's going to stay there it doesn't just like yeah it doesn't continue to move or anything it's instant because i don't i don't think i've ever seen you do it no i haven't taken images since you should take an image of when my water broke. You should have gone in there. Yeah. Well, we didn't know at the beginning. You were like, I'm not sure. Oh yeah. Darn. We really missed an opportunity there. That would have been, or if I did a water birth, that would have been really cool too. Cause when I first came to your place, you had a book called Water Babies. And I thought, oh, how interesting that is. And I guess knowing all this about you now, I mean, maybe I would have looked into water. Well, we had to do C-section anyways,

but it would have been interesting to get, I don't know if at the time of birth you'd want to be filming. Yeah, right. You want to be, I mean, I am the kind of person that would. That would, yeah. You know, I have the capacity to multitask and be both present to the birth and get the image or at least capture the water and then do it later, you know.

Yeah, that would have been cool though water and then do it later. Yeah. That would have been cool, though. But yeah, it can still happen. Oh, man. Do you ever see Pocahontas, the Disney movie? I think so. Did we watch it together? I don't know if together, but... There's a whole song about the thing I like most about rivers is you can't step in the same river twice.

The water is always changing, always flowing. You know that one? Well, I know the original quote. Like they quoted a philosopher. Oh. Yeah. Really? You never step in the same river twice.

That's a quote. That's insane. Oh my God. Disney stole the lyrics from somebody. Well, I mean, the concept is a concept. It's a philosophy, but yeah. But we watch a lot of Disney movies and like the theme you noticed, and I like never noticed until you, is like everything is like kind of water-based oh yeah i mean frozen too is they talk about water having memory and

being alive um when she she's a little moses she parts the ocean yeah and seeing her her grandma in the ocean the spirit literally come out of the ocean i'm getting chills now no it is it's it's wild do you think they and it seems more recent in Disney movies, but I guess Pocahontas too, but it's like, do you think there's some message like they're trying to put out? Or do you think it's deep like that? Or do you think it's like just not that deep? It is. It's just, you know, when the writers, the people that write are the people that are

in tune with that knowledge. And then later on, it doesn't mean that every person in Disney understands it or the photographer or the editor or the animator, you know what I mean? Or the actors even. But that's why the writers are the important part of each story that's told. It's beautiful.

I mean, the Moana one, because we're on a Moana kick right now, is like when she's in the ocean and her grandma that passed away comes up and presents herself. It is cool cool to think that i think that gives me like comfort in when anyone passes and you know if you go before me whatever you know or just our daughter you know just knowing that like you're surrounded because people believe in spirits but like there's a way to like be connected to you right away. We never die. Water cannot die. There's no way to kill water.

You know what I mean? Like we never die. Yeah, I guess on that then. So it's like, okay, well, let's stick with the faces of water because then it gets too deep and I get too sad about it. But I think it is like beautiful. That is interesting. So like when anyone dies, you think, okay, you get buried

and then you go back into the ground. Well, let's first look at physically what happens, right? You put the body in the ground. And then the thing that leaves the body is the water. Right. Everything else stays in place. Again, your skin, your bone, your hair, all those things. Yeah.

They stay there in place. But the water is the only thing that actually leaves your body. And then that goes immediately into the cycle of plants and animals and insects and worms and whatever. So that's why the Buddhists that are aware of that cycle, their choice is to skip that cycle and go straight to the clouds. So that's why some people burn the body. They want to clean. Basically, it's a cleansing almost. But then the water evaporates, goes back to the body. They want to clean. Basically, it's a cleansing almost. But then the water evaporates, goes back to the cloud. But then you come back to the cycle again, rain, earth.

But the thing is, if you bury the body, the water retains all those memories and takes it with it to the next cycle. But if you burn the body, it actually breaks all those memories so it's kind of a but then you start fresh you know which again i don't know which one i mean i probably would be prefer to be buried yeah go back into the fire seems too violent for me oh right like oh yeah no i mean teach their own but yeah that sounds that sounds um scary uh i wonder i wonder if instead of cremation if you could do like like i could like liquidify you like you know take your liquid out and drain you there's um like can i keep it before you go underneath don't do that

wait why because that's horrible to keep a it's like capturing somebody's soul and yeah like that's that's but would keep your soul forever. Yeah, but it would be tortured in that container. Okay, okay, okay. It will let you go to the ground. You want the body to be free into the... No, but what you could do, for example, is like let's say you bury somebody in the ground

and you plant a tree over it. Then you know that some of that water will, you know, be part of that tree. So that's like a good, healthy way of doing it. It's very much like Little Shop of Horrors. He feeds her to the plant. And she's like, if you put me in the plant, then I'm part of the plant and I'll always be around you.

And I think that's kind of the same thing. That's really cute. I like that. So your phases of water, you do this. You said you're in, is this in Koreatown, your apartment in Koreatown? Yeah, when I lived in Koreatown, I had a big space and I did all the experiments there. So are you just getting water from like the faucet to like, where are you seeing these faces? And were you on any drugs when you saw the faces, like hallucinogens? You know, we talk about it.

Yeah. No, no. This is totally sober. You were totally sober? No weed? I mean, you see the faces. You see the faces in the images. Like I don't- Okay. You're talking about just what they look like. Like they look like faces, but they're not actual. The way you described it was like faces like coming out at you. There's some actual faces. Like there's. But not like lifting from the thing.

You're just seeing them in the water. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing is lifting. The only time that it's lifting is if you use sound waves. When you use sound in the water, the water actually does dance and move up and down and you see those forms, but. It comes up? Yeah. and move up and down and you see those forms. It comes up?

Yeah, it comes up and down. It has little patterns in it, cymatics. How do you do the sound waves? I made a big speaker that is also kind of a tub. So you put the water in it and then you have a frequency generator so you can generate the frequency

and the speaker vibrates and the water just dances. You just wanted to see the water dance? You're like, speaker vibrates and the water just dances. You just wanted to see the water dance. You're like, let me see how this water can dance. So to your question is, you know, you start with just regular water, but then you realize, wait, each water has a different spirit to it, you know, and different amount of energy in it. So then I capture rainwater and ocean water and lake, you know, from the lakes and stuff like that. And you realize that the end that the best water is really like fresh rainwater or spring, you know, water from the ocean has salt in it. And it's like images from the ocean. It's like SD compared to HD, you know, like they have too much grainy.

Yeah. They're too grainy. But when you get fresh water, it's just so energetic and it's so fresh and so clean. So that's really the best water to work with and also to drink, fresh spring water. But if you create sound, so the theories are that most of life was created by vibration. Vibration is sound. Sound is vibration, vibrating in the water. And then those vibration creates form. It's like a 3D printer in the water. So that's why I is sound. Sound is vibration, vibrating in the water. And then those vibrations create form.

It's like a 3D printer in the water. So that's why I used sound. Sound was the most informative way. That would be the coolest to watch. Do you have a video of that? Because you used to film YouTube videos. Yeah. It's online.

There's lots of videos, yeah. Sematics videos. There's lots of them. Because you're... That's such a beautiful thing I was thinking about. Like I'm crying. You know, people always say there's like signs when someone leaves. There's a butterfly or like a cat named tater

tot or something like that and it's just like thinking like every time it rains it could be like a connection to someone you know like that could be someone and have you ever felt that have you felt because you never i've never heard you talk about that where you felt something through water through rain have you ever like yeah physically felt anything yeah a few times there were like really profound moments. So there's one of the next projects I'm working on is basically a book, right? You've been working on it for before I met you. Yeah.

But I mean, like as far as completing the project. So that whole project was just downloaded into my brain in an instance. Like I didn't even write it. It just was there suddenly. Suddenly I was in the story. But that happened when I was like in the rain under this big mcnollia tree and it was in the rain it was just like it was just like suddenly it just hit me and i was in the story i saw everything and then just by yourself were you where were you were you here in the united states yeah yeah i didn't know that so So that was one. What year is that?

Probably, I don't know if it was 2016 or 17. No, before 17. So 15 or 16, that's when it happened. And then after that, I was swimming in the ocean in the south of France. I was in the water. The story is crazy. And I was just swimming. I was like, because it's been a while since I was in the south of France. I was in the water. The story is crazy. And I was just swimming. I was like, because it's been a while since I was in the ocean,

because here it's so cold. Yeah. And I was like swimming in the ocean. I was like, you know what? Let me kind of be playful with the water. And I was like, okay, I'm here. Do you have anything to tell me, to say? You're by yourself.

Yeah. And I'm just like floating in the middle of the ocean. And then I see something kind of floating in the water and in my mind i'm thinking oh it's trash i should pick it up and take it back like i shouldn't leave it here so i pick up and it's a piece of paper and because it was wet i could see through it and the word was on the other side of it actually so i saw a word that was mirrored but my brain immediately and it said love in hebrew in the middle of the ocean in france in france yeah and there was just a small piece of paper and said the word love in hebrew printed on it and i still have it in in my sketchbook i always like to carry it with me from in the middle of the ocean the thing is so brittle you know it's like it literally would dissolve in my hands and yeah that's so so i was like so for me like for something

like that just one instance like that is like that entire trip was really about that one moment and what did you take away from that like did you take away something right away or like oh this is cool i should just keep it or were you like this is something this is a sign first of all i was happy because i was like okay you know first of all there is communication and the communication was love i was like what more you know we want to know that god is love and love is the force of nature and it was just a little confirmation you know that's so interesting well fits our valentine's day theme Love to you back then. What did it mean to you? Like seeing that, like you're like, what was your thoughts on love? Well, being, you know, when you're kind of like seeking for truth and knowledge, you also want to know, you know, is this world about goodness or not?

Is it our experience here? You know, like what is it about? So it's nice to know that it's, that love is there and it is the force. Because a lot of times there's so much hate in the world that you start to doubt that. Right. Wait a minute, maybe it's not about love. Maybe it's really about whatever that is. So I think it's important to be reminded that love is the only way for us to be you know healthy in this world and

staying in love like in the path of love because when something bad happens it's really an attempt of hate to get you into their camp basically so that's why it's so important not to fall into that trap because right now in the world that's what you see right now. Right now there's so much hate happening. And the problem is like, I see everyone just falling into that trap. This is around your 35 year, water snake year. Okay.

But what did love mean to you at that time versus how you perceived love as like a teenager or a young adult versus love now at 35? What was the difference? What did you see? What do you perceive it as? Because when you're a teenager or a young adult versus love now at 35, what was the difference? What did you see? What did you perceive it as? Because when you're a teenager, love is more like, I don't know, lust.

And, you know, love is more physical. And it's very, yeah, it's almost like an instinct, almost like an animal instinct at that age. And love is something that was, you know, if you didn't receive enough love and attention at home, love was filling in those gaps, which is not good because it's a different type of love when you're in a relationship. But when I was older, realizing that love is basically no judgment. That's love. So not judging people is love. Like when we judge people, judgment is an act of hate.

Right. So when we judge people, we're actually engaging in hate. And being a loving being is really loving everyone and not judging. Because every person in front of you is you in just a different version. It's like you would be that person if you grew up in that body. So you were thinking of it as like love that you put out. It's not the love that you receive at the time. You weren't like, oh.

Right. It has nothing to do with what is received. Yeah. Interesting. It's more about how I perceive everyone else around me. So you just thought like, I need to act out of love. You weren't thinking like, I need love in my life. Right.

Yeah. It was more, I need to stop judging and being hateful. And then you start loving and then love. Because when you meet a person, there's love and hate inside of them. You can either communicate with the hate that's in them or you can communicate with the love that's in them. So when you stop communicating with the hate that is in people, suddenly the love starts replying and coming towards you away. Have you always felt loved your whole life? Yeah, but not by people.

But you always felt like, okay, explain that then. I always felt God by my side. Okay. I always felt that somebody was watching over me. I always felt that somebody was, um, yeah, always, since I was a kid, I was always. It almost feels like it's like a, for me, it feels like a human need, much like food or water, air. It's like love. It's like, if you don't feels like a human need, much like food or water or air. It's like love.

It's like if you don't have it or you don't feel it. And I think what you said is so beautiful because like a lot of people don't have self-love or romantic love. And it's like, what's the other love you can find? And it's like, yeah, someone or something watching over you. And I go back and forth with that too because you were saying you always felt like God. So you felt like, what does that mean? Like a person or something or just like the world loves you?

Like how would you describe that? I think when we were young, we feel a lot of times that we don't belong or alone. But that doesn't make sense. I was kind of logical. I was like, that doesn't make sense because I'm in something, right? Like this world, this nature, this whole thing. I'm inside of it i belong in it it's mine so like here for a reason yeah but also physically like this is your world you're in it

like it belongs to you and it's part of you and nobody's alone unless you're floating in space by yourself so you know like that so to just so for any person that feels like I'm alone or by myself and all those things, you kind of get a snap out of it and walk outside. Yeah. Hug a tree. I mean, if you can't, if you don't want people, that's fine too. I can understand that. But, you know, get a pet, hug a tree, but know that you belong into something.

Because it's not healthy because it's not healthy. It's not healthy. Like in our body, if there's cells in your body that feel like they're not part of your body, then they start almost building their own entity. That's cancer. So it's very important to belong to the body that you're inside of.

So be like, this is your society. This is your culture. This is your culture. This is your world. You have to be part of it and a positive part in it. Belong, but not identify as that. Don't make it your whole identity is what you're saying. Definitely not. Yeah.

Because culture, I mean, cult, culture, you know, like it's not, that's not your identity. Nothing, nothing physical is your identity. So, but when you see other people is not physical, then you get past everything. I don't care what somebody looks like, what their orientation is, what their pronouns are. I don't care about those things because I see the person in there. And I think that's the biggest thing we deal with now is an identity crisis because so many people are, I think when we walked away from spirit, then people are like, but I don't feel like my body, but you know, maybe I'm an atheist, so I don't believe in anything else. So I was like, so suddenly you're in a problem, like you have nowhere to go with it.

So you're trying to modify your body. I'm like, no, but you have a spirit. Like there is something that is not your body. You like no but you have a spirit like there is something that is not your body you can have a feminine spirit in a male's body right you can have a you know a more masculine spirit in a female body and and that's fine you know and then if you want to modify the body that's great but but know that that yes there is something else in that body yeah and that's fine like there is something that is different. Different but same, I also feel too.

I feel like everyone is like the same, you know? It's like, so that- Between us, yeah. The human connection or- But I'm saying between me, like my body is a vehicle and there's a spirit in it. Oh, that's separate, yeah. My spirit could be a bit different

than what you see as my vehicle. Right. Right? Very much so, yeah. So that's what I mean. But if somebody doesn't think about the spirit, then all you see as my vehicle. Right. Very much so, yeah. So that's what I mean. But if somebody doesn't think about the spirit, then all they have is the vehicle. And then I'm like, okay, you can do whatever you want to the vehicle,

but you're still going to feel, you know. Well, I think that's why people feel so energies, you know, like they feel like because it's kind of the spirit, you know what I mean? When you can feel someone's energy, you can feel like what they're feeling, the goodness, you know. It's like it can, yeah, it can change the way you perceive a person too. Like their spirit versus their, like you said, the way they look. But I feel like love, like it's interesting.

You got that. So you got that letter or you got the literally like a message in a bottle in the middle of the ocean at 35. So that message was for you to be like, okay, I need to start accepting, be more accepting of other people. Now, how do you perceive love at this stage in your life? Like if you got that in the middle of the ocean now, like what would you take that as? You already know to accept everyone.

And now love, there's literally a love sign there. Like what do you perceive it as if you just saw it like float down from the sky? Right. I mean, now my world is more focused on like you malibu elvis um and it's a different type of love and different type of intensity too you know because i think i think before that it was the fear of having something so important because when you have something that's so important to you there's sadly you can also feel fear that something will happen to the thing that's so important

to you right so because it's easy to go about life without having that so so I think that's probably

the when I think about love now I think about all of you guys like that's kind of like the well how do you

that's like a good not to get sad again about it but you were saying like how do you because I feel that way too, not to get sad again about it, but you were saying like, how do you, cause I feel that way too. I feel like all love saved me and I do believe it. I think you saved me. I think Malibu saved me. And like, love is like, to me is everything. I'm just like, oh man, like how did I function before self-love, romantic love? Like, I'm just like, oh my God, how did I even function? But then how do you, you said like the fear of losing it.

How do you combat that? Like, I know it's your thoughts, but it's also like a feeling, right? Like it's also like, well, not only a feeling, it's also a reality. It's like, oh, well, this people do lose the love of their lives, watch The Golden Bachelor and they lose the love. It's like, you know, how do you stop the fear? You just have to ignore it. Like you said, it's a thought in your head. So you have to ignore it because if you let that take over, just lose the present time with the person you love right so i can either be worried about malibu getting hurt or i can actually physically be there present to make sure she

doesn't you know but if i'm not present i mean my mind sure enough she'll stumble and fall and i won't you know what i mean like yeah so being in the present moment, that's the best way. And then as parents, it's just knowing, you know, no parent is perfect and there'll be mistakes and there'll be things. You just have to be, you know, not judge yourself and be graceful to yourself. Every parent, every parent does the best they can do. Yeah. Every parent in the world.

The worst one you can think of, they did the best that they could do. That they could do. Yeah. That's what they could do. That's the best they can do. Yeah. Every parent in the world. The worst one you can think of, they did the best that they could do. That they could do, yeah. That's what they could do. That's the best they could do. And for us, it's just to, you know, forgive and move on. How would you rate love and importance of like one to ten and like the theme of life, the scale of life, like how important is love in the whole grand scheme of it? It's beyond the scale.

I mean, it's outside of the scale. You think it's... It's just its own thing. That's like I said, it's like that important is love in the whole grand scheme of it? It's beyond the scale. I mean, it's outside of the scale. You think it's... It's just its own thing. That's like, it's like, that's the current in nature. That's the force of nature. That's what everything needs to be built on. What advice would you give people who don't feel it? Or don't have it, or don't think they have it?

Right. So, so what happened is probably something bad happened to them. And what they don't know is they got hurt twice. Somebody hurt them, but then when somebody hurts you, now you judge that person and you hate that person. So that's how they also robbed you from staying in love. So the key is to find who hurt you, forgive them, and not take on the judgment and hate that you have towards them. You have to let that go because otherwise, they just recruited you basically, you know? What if they let that go? Like, okay, I forgive my enemies. And they're like, damn, no one loves me still. I'm still alone in this life.

But that's a different story, right? So now, you know, what is for you to, I think, I think when somebody finds love, self-love and love in the world, they don't feel alone anymore. Cause anyway, I think walking into a relationship, you should feel whole and complete, you know, you shouldn't be in a relationship because you're alone. But I think I disagree with you there because I do feel like I was such a shell of a person. And then like once I, we fell in love and like, like I saw how much you loved me. I was like, oh, well let me try and like get my life together. I feel like I was like completely shattered when we were dating.

Right, but that's what I was talking about. Like when you talk, when love talks to the love in the other person, then that love starts to take over, right? So it's not – it just happened from this direction. But if it happened from your direction, it would be the same outcome. If you're taking out whatever you felt that was not good or not you, that you didn't want to have in yourself. Right. And finding yourself. And then, again, love would appear.

It would be the same thing. I just wish there was like some really great advice to give people because like for me, I was just so desperate and so lonely and so miserable before I found you. And I just like wish there was like better advice. I feel like you're the person to give it to someone who like is just struggling, who thinks there's like no one in sight for them to find love that they're searching for. Yeah. But I don't think I did that for you. I think you did that. So it's like, I think that's- Well, I think divine intervention or whatever. I think it just happened, but like maybe not everyone finds that. There's people, cause I always say, you know, I was 32 when I met you, you know, it was wild. But then there's some people like 45,

like I'm still waiting for my Moses or for whatever. And it's like, and then some people are just single their whole lives and not by choice. They don't want to be. And so it's like, what is the, what's the advice to get through? You have to let go of judgment. Of who? Because probably everyone, because probably the person that's good for you and waiting for you is somebody you right now judge and think they're not the person for you. Right. So I think that's what it is.

Maybe, yeah, I guess thinking about that as just being more open to people around you and things around you. And if you're searching for that romantic love, like it could be there and you're not seeing it. But it just, it takes time because first it's your work on your own. Because first, most people think they're fine. They don't know they're hateful. They don't know they're judgmental.

Most people don't know that. They just think I'm just, you know, they think it makes sense that I hate that person because they're a bad person. Right. Like they make, we brand hate, you know. Yeah. So like a person is, I don't call anyone a brand.

You know, like I don't call somebody a racist. I call them hateful. I don't call somebody transphobic. I call them hateful. Right. Because when you categorize it for that person, they're fine with it. They're like, yeah, I hate that group of people and I'm fine with it. Yeah.

But when you tell them you're a hateful person, they're like, no, I'm not. You know what I mean? Right, right. Because they think, no, but I love my mom. I love my friends. I just hate those people. I'm like, no, then you hate everyone. I never understood this logic.

You could try and explain it, but I'm like, no, but that's definitely not true. You either love everybody or hate everyone. No, that's so not true. Because I would quiz you on this. This is what I don't really get. Maybe you guys can get it. Maybe you can talk through it more. But I'm just like, that's so not true. Because, yes, you can love your mom and, like, hate someone who, like, you know, kill someone in your family or something.

You know what I mean? There's no loving that person. I mean, then you must be the Pope because most people would. No, the Pope is not that great. But I wouldn't hate them. Just say. No, all I'm saying is that that's the work. The work is to understand that, you know, if somebody did a crime, we have judges and we have prisons and we have laws and they'll get punished. But for me now to turn into, to become a hateful person because somebody else is hateful, I'm getting punished.

You know what I mean? I'm not God. That's plain God. I'm not God. That's not my job to be, to judge these people. You know what I mean? I'm not God. That's plain God. I'm not God. That's not my job to be, to judge these people. You know what I mean? I think you can like, dislike a lot of people and love some people. You can choose to spend time with people and not spend time with people.

You can choose, but I'm not going to judge them. I want to go down a list of people and see if you love all of them. That's what I would love to do. I can tell you right now, yes. No. I can tell you right now. There's a difference. There's a difference between discernment. You love everybody of them. That's what I would love to do. I can tell you right now, yes. No. I can tell you right now. There's a difference. There's a difference between discernment.

You love everybody. Yes. There's a difference between discernment. There's a difference between I don't want to hang out with somebody. I don't want to see them. I don't want to be near them. Right. And there's a difference between loving everyone and just tolerating everyone.

Let's say there's, you know how like wounded animals. Let's say there's a dog that's wounded and he bites everyone that comes near them. Right. Right. I'm not going to hate that dog, but I'm also not going to play with it because I know they'll bite me. But you're going to love that dog. Yeah.

I don't hate it. Like I understand it's a wounded dog. But you're going to love it. You're going to care for it like you care for me or Malibu. I won't care for it. It's not my friend. But you love it. If you love it like you love me and Malibu.

I think confusing the word love with loving somebody, like that doesn't mean I have to embrace them and make love to them. Not with a wounded dog. No, but I think that's where the confusion is. I don't think I've heard you say that. Okay, yeah. I think that's where the confusion is. No, I'm joking. You feel like a little.

That was where the joke came through the seriousness of things. That was good. That's the most sense of humor I love. It's something to work on and think about. Like it's not something that's just like sense of humor I love um well I guess we'll agree it's something to work on and think about like it's not it's not something

I've been thinking about it every time we have this discussion since I met you I'm like I don't know about this one but I think maybe it's suggesting

what you think the word love means right or maybe like I said for me the word love means no judgment no hate

accepting yeah all right well fair enough with that from water to love. Which is the same thing. Right. I guess in the way it's like life. And I feel like if you're here, you are loved. I mean, think about what brought you into this world. I mean, obviously there's certain circumstances that maybe it wasn't love, but it was a love from a higher being that you

were meant to be here. If you're here, I think, you think about that, right? How many, again, just talking about the trying to get pregnant, how many like, what would you call it, cells or something don't make a life. They don't create a human. And it's like the fact that you were one of a million. Yeah, you were the chosen one. You were the chosen one coming through. I mean, you have to believe you're here for a reason. And there's a love that's higher than you that brought you here. And like you were kind of saying that's higher than you that brought you here and like you were kind of saying like the world is kind of like you're deserving to be in this world and this world like wants you to win and and also once you think about again the the advantage of or the positive side of thinking about water as you saw that water now is going to come back right

that's that suddenly you understand what the reincarnation means, right? It's a closed system. The water is not leaving this place. So while you're here, you better make this a better place for you to come back to. Absolutely, I agree with that. So there's no point going around breaking things. You're coming right back. You're coming back to whatever you're leaving behind.

Yes. So that's kind of like, you know, but I get it so suddenly talking about life in the bigger scheme of things, And you're coming right back. You're coming back to whatever you're leaving behind. Yes. So that's kind of like, you know, I get it. So suddenly talking about life in the bigger scheme of things, life and death, the cycle of life is so easy when you have something tangible like water to describe it. So that's what I'm saying. It doesn't matter if you believe in it or not. Use it as a symbol, as a way to understand life, you know. Before me and Malibu, what would you say is your greatest accomplishment in life? Faces of Water and everything I've done with that.

That's what you're most proud of, the book. With the water. The art. And that book is, that's where all of that led to is to that one book. And yeah, and I'm taking my time with it because I always knew that I wanted to basically tell the story to, in this case, my daughter.

And that would form the book. So, yeah, I think that's how it will happen. But all the illustrations are done for it. It's there. It's pretty. I remember seeing them early on from when we were dating. It's really nice. It's very magical. It's cool. I remember seeing them like early on from when we were dating. It's really nice.

It's very magical. It's cool too. It's like a story I feel like just like not really been told and it's something unique. Yeah. This is just the story has many depths and layers to it. And this is the short version of it. And there's the longer, deeper version of it. Because it expands infinitely to every direction. So, yeah.

So, I mean, that's why I'm like I have so much work ahead of me in my, you know, later years to do and to enjoy because I enjoy working on it. So, for me, it's something that I'm looking forward to. Do you think later on you don't think, what, in a few years, 10 years? I don't know, maybe 5 to 10 years. Yeah. But I'm just saying it's a life project. Right.

It's like my whole life. Because I always think about it. I always develop it. Are you continuing to seek or you think you've sought it all and now you're like, I just got to write it all out for people? Yeah, I found it all. Yeah. Now I'm just living it out. You think so?

You think you're done being a seeker? Yeah. There's always new things that come up and things get more, you know, fine-tuned. But in general, I think, you know, the meaning of life, like I found it, I'm living it and this is it. So what is the meaning of life for everyone who is watching? To live life. To live life. I think that's so simple, but like so true. Because it's like, you know, to be the best husband you can be, to be the best dad you can be, to have this, you know, the life that we're born into. That is the meaning.

Because I met a lot of people in a lot of places that are seeking and they're constantly going this, chasing their own tail and constantly another, you know, like there's infinite amount of workshops and conventions and things and breakthroughs. And, but at the end of the day, you're just, you're still living your life. Living your life until you don't. But you just let somebody else consume it from you. You know what I mean? Yeah. I was always like that too.

I feel like I was always chasing like a higher, even now I still get in that thing of like, okay, the next high, the next thing. But when I like stop truly, I'm just like, oh God, like life is so good now. You know, we always talk about like, if I have a TV show and if we're traveling, but it's like, I love our little routine. I love, like, I love waking up in the morning and just like laying in bed, Malibu's up, got a feeder. She wants the tea on. She runs around brushing teeth with us, like seeing you. Like, I love that. The good life doesn't have highs and lows. Right.

It's just every day is a good life. And then you realize that constant is one long high. It is. Waking up, like having that in the morning is the best. It's like, oh, this is so great. Having your little foot in your mouth, you know, like all this little stuff like that. It's just like, oh, it's our night. I love our nighttime routine.

When the day's over, it's just like so nice. It's like, okay, we're going to take a bath. We're going to, you know. Explain the foot. The food? Wait, what? Explain the food? The foot.

The foot in my mouth? Her feet are always, they're always in my face. When we sleep, for some reason, she always finds her way between us and horizontal between us. Yeah. So either her head is on her, her legs are on me. I always get the foot. Or her head is on me. I always have a foot in my face.

I feel a little feet digging into my back. Oh, me too. Always. I got a block and I sleep like this, blocking my stomach in this. And I love the little foot. And I get so excited. And I see those little feet. I'm like, give me the little feet.

They're so cute. Because we saw them in the womb and they're just so cute. I love it. And that's, yeah, that's amazing. I don't know how, yeah, but it just, I, anyways, this is so beautiful. And then at night too, we just have our little routine and like eating and cooking dinner and watching TV and then Malibu goes to sleep. And then I remember we were eating like Ferrero Rocher watching RuPaul and I was just like, oh God, this is like the life of boys. It feels like a sleepover. I'm like, God, we get to have a sleepover.

I always loved when he slept over at my house and I was just like, it feels like a one long sleepover where you never go back to your house. Well, we were in our house. But you know what I mean? I would always be so sad when he'd go back and I'd feel so alone. I'm like, God, this is like every day. And it's so fun. Marriage is one long sleepover. Marriage is one long sleepover.

Marriage is one long sleepover and it's really, really fun. And then when you have kids, it's just, yeah, it's like the little things like taking her to her gym class

or something like that and just. That's fun. I love seeing her in a gym class. I love seeing her because she's just so excited. Like, it's just so beautiful

to see kids just be excited to just see bubbles and I don't know, just, you know, just dance and run around. When you see a child, you see that love we talk about before anyone tempered with it. Yeah. Before any hateful, you know, something that has a spirit of hate tried to interfere. And at that age, like the day she's not even two yet, it's like just seeing everyone just

so happy and sweet to each other and just enjoying running around together. It's just like such a beautiful, simple thing. And I'm like, I love it so much. I think it's great. It's the best. We're going to have one more running around. I know. It's just, it's so much fun.

I know. You just kind of don't want to even stop. It's just like so much fun to see them blossom and become this person. Yeah. Especially when you have such an amazing kid. You're like, okay, that's – it's kind of like that excitement. It's almost like in a small scale when you take a photo and then you get to see it. Here it's like you get to see it every day, all day changing and evolving.

And it's like discovery. Like you always – That's amazing. And it's like discovery. That's amazing. And you're like, what will the next one be like? What did that look like? Completely different. Who knows? What is one thing that you would hope our daughters would get from you, like inherit from you? I don't know.

I mean, I don't know, joy and excitement and doing things. Maybe the, probably like the independence, independence and creativity. It is. It's so important. And the way you have your independence is like amazing. Like you're really, you are, you are a person. We're so different this way where you're okay being alone. Like before we met and stuff like that, like you're, you said you are a person we're so different this way where you're okay being alone like before we met and stuff like that like you're you said you were completely

fine being alone you have happiness you had joy you had stuff that inspired you before whereas me i was just like a shell nothing inspired me so i do hope they get that from you where they don't need because that's that's usually a good place to enter a relationship from. I think you attract them better too when people see, oh, they don't need anything from me. I have to enhance their life in some way. I think that's a big one. Well, she definitely gets her creativity from you with her painting and stuff like that. For me too. You're a creative.

We're both. Well, we're both a creative type, which is so interesting. So that is like one thing i was so interested like i still can't fathom we talk about on hot topics and joke about how like people really are fans of you like you had fans like there was like a little there was a group of people that went to your art shows and stuff that weren't just your friends like they admired your work what is that like you had fame in like a different aspect in a way like you had like fame, I guess, would you say the art world or the water world? Yeah, but I think it's, again, it's different because your fame is people are fans of you, the person.

In my world, nobody knew anything about my private life, personal life, who I am, what I am. They like the work. They like the images of the water. They like the work. They like the images of the water. They like the lectures. They like the knowledge. So they were attracted to the work and the knowledge, not to me. You know what I mean? I can't fathom that.

It's not personal. It's not personal. But isn't it somewhat like people who like Tony Robbins or, you know, Abraham Hicks or something, you know, they get attached to the person, like people like Esther Hicks. There's some people that try and they want to, but I'm kind of like Teflon, non-stick. Isn't Teflon cancerous too? I feel like that's like not good for you. But in this sense, the metaphor is being non-stick.

Like I'm not a person that people can stick to. You know what I mean? Like they can try, but it just doesn't work because you just can't. You're not going to find a way to enter my life further than that, what I present, right? So you come to the show, you see the work, and that's where it ends. A famous quote by Moses in one of our recent Hot Topics is a fan came up to him, said, I love your work, and he walked away and ignored them.

Well, I wasn't. He can't stick to you. Do you want to clarify? Don't ever say you're a fan of Moses. He'll just ignore you. I move on very quickly from that. What was your I made it moment in that world? Again, before me and Malibu, where you're like, okay, I've accomplished something good here.

Was there something where you're like, this is it? For me, I'll just tell you, it sticks out as your exhibit at the airport. I was like, oh, accomplished something good here. Was there something where you're like, this is it? For me, I'll just tell you, it sticks out as your exhibit at the airport. I was like, oh, that's so cool. Because again, I'm someone who thinks that stuff is so cool. Like if your artwork was in LAX now, I'd be so excited. You know, I'd be, oh my God,

I would be there like every day, like taking pictures and TikToks. Yeah, I mean, for me, it was the moment was between me and myself when I discovered the photography and started doing that. Then there were just constant moments because then I did my first big exhibit. And I remember that night coming back home and being kind of like, wow, I can't believe this happened. You know, it was a huge exhibit. And I think just the prints, all the prints was like $20, thousand dollars to make how did you get that money back then are you no

people this was before go fund me but people did it like investors yeah they wanted this to happen so that's that's where i felt like okay life is pushing this up and me up the original patreon so yeah so that that was like one of the things LAX exhibit there's always those moments there's always been exhibits I worked with different

dance companies and music and tours and just being we did so many shows in so many different amazing places and

it always felt so for me every year felt like that moment yeah you have like a little win each year you're like

I'm on the right path wow I was very proud of you still for the LAX thing. I think that's cool. I would have definitely been flexing. I still am. I'm like, that's so cool that you did that. I think that kind of stuff is.

That was a beautiful exhibit. What was cool is that the curator of the exhibit came to my studio and they just wanted one piece. And then when he saw the work, they switched it up and I got four main pieces to have and an entire wall. And, yeah, so it's kind of cool when the people that do it are excited. Of course, yeah. They see your work and they're like, oh, wow, we want more. And, yeah, I just, for me, art has always been a joy, and it's almost like not work.

So I never pursued or tried to advertise my work like a full-time artist or anything yeah but also like all the shows that I got is people that came to me I never like I don't go out there and try to plug my work in and stuff like that so it's always been nice it's always been people that showed interest and wanted it to happen one highlight was also Wired magazine. It's like a science magazine. So when I first discovered it, there was an article on Wired magazine about it. And they didn't interview you?

They just wrote about it? There was some questions and images. Oh, okay. Oh, my gosh. I mean, it's been in lots of newspapers and magazines since I've done it. I feel like seeing you in print like that, like newspaper, is so cool. To me, it's so cool to be like magazines. Oh my God, it's so cool.

So I have lots of, like in Germany, in one of the main newspapers, it was like cover and photos and spreads and it's really fun. You have all of them? You kept all of them? Yeah. See, we had a lot of parallels, both cover stars. Mine wasn't until I met you actually. I think all my accolades came after I met you.

You really only elevated, even what I've already been doing before I met you. Now everything is, look at this, the set. It's microphones. It's cameras. It's lights. It's fun. It's fun. And it's all Moses.

Every time people come to the set, he changes it up. Actually, Irma was here taking photos of us earlier, and she was moving this chair. And she goes, it's a lot of work. And she's fit. She's like a fit person. She's like like this is a lot of work moving it back and forth and Moses does it all the time with the guests and then changing up the sets and it's fun you're so yesterday it was emo said that was a good one it's just all my chemical you're so talented in so many ways that's like truly I mean it's why I'm like always in awe of

you to this day like all the stuff you can do I'm always like it's why I'm like always in awe of you. To this day, like all the stuff you can do, I'm always like – it's amazing. I think my dad always says it. He's just like, what Moses can't do. Like he always says that. And it's true. It's like what – the way you just naturally get – you're good at everything. Like you're naturally good at being a dad. You're naturally – you can just do all the technical stuff.

You can do the art stuff. You can be in front of the camera. You can be behind the camera. It's like – it's really amazing. I've never met anyone like you who can do all the sides and like all the sides and enjoy all of it too. I think you – because i think you're just as good in front of the camera not even like this but even taking pictures like lip syncs on tiktok acting like you're just so good and i always say that about you i'm like you should have been i still think

you'll be an actor i think you'll still get that movie roll out like 60 playing moses or something or maybe now we We'll be together. Moses and Tepora. I don't think I'd be casted as Tepora. Could you imagine if they casted me as Tepora? I think there'd be a little bit of an uproar, but hey, I'd be down. I don't know who I could be in that, but I would be down for it. What do you think?

No, you could be the Egyptian queen that gets Moses from the river. I don't think I could be Egyptian either, babe. I don't think that applies anymore. I think you have river. I don't think I could be Egyptian either, babe. I don't think that applies anymore. I think you have to, I don't know. We haven't done your 23andMe yet, so we'll see. Okay, if it's in my lineage, then maybe. What do you think, if you had social media back in your 20s, would you have embraced it? Yeah.

Yeah? You think you would have been on it? Because you weren't on it that much when I met you. Like, you weren't, well, Facebook, shout out to Moses. Do you still have it? Should we shout it out? that much when I met you. Like you weren't. Well, Facebook. Shout out to Moses. Do you still have it? Should we shout it out? What is it?

Faces of Water? Yeah, there's Faces of Water. Are you still active? Because when I met you, you were very much into posting. I guess that's where you found a lot of your fandom, I guess, or like posting about your job. Yeah, because at the time on Facebook, there was a short period of time when it started that it was organic. So like if I posted something, people actually saw it.

And now it doesn't work that way you kind of have to promote your page for people to see it so anyway so at the beginning you know there was like over probably 20,000 people that liked Faces of Water and followed it

and when you would post a picture you would get 400, 500 likes to a picture for me that's a lot 20,000 is a lot yeah yeah because I'm not and and it was really organic and it was just about the images and the water and and the comments and so it was nice it was nice to get that community to get the comments and the interaction and um because i think it is the work itself of the water it has its own beauty and magic to it so people were just in awe

from the thing yeah so that was fun so facebook i was definitely early adopter when it came out i was on it that is true and youtube too you were yeah 2006 i just like so i have a background of photography so both still and photos so for me i was i was on flickr like posting photos you know yeah so i would just take photos and post them i have tons of albums of photos from whatever, you know? So for me, it was like as a photographer. So again, it's always been about the work, the image. It was never me.

Yeah. Like that's what I never, I didn't even know. I guess when I joined YouTube, it was always about the content. I didn't know what a YouTuber was yet. Right. And it was also forming at the time. Like it took a minute. I guess you were in your twenties when you started YouTube, right? Late twenties. But meaning in the sense of like being a person in front of a camera. But you were, you would film yourself. You remember the iPhone is my editor. Maybe I should

hire it. Yeah, but I would do little things things but that was just little things but but i didn't systematically um shared my life with people right you weren't always open to you know people couldn't see who i am and like it or dislike it right so that's kind of what a youtuber is people have watched them because they love them or they hate them but they watch them yeah um so for me it was just a place to post. I always like to post pictures. Even on Facebook, I would do that, post pictures of my, of,

you know, personal life photos that I took or for the, of the water. But I would definitely adopt it, but I wouldn't be in front of the camera. Right. Like now.

Yeah. I would probably find ways to make art through using the platform, you know, be creative about using the platform. know be creative about yeah i guess yeah i guess you kind of did adapt early to every social media i guess that answers my question is like you already did that which is interesting and then the water droplets formed and they like you for you they like the moses and now they're gonna they want to know about your art now it's

like the opposite it's like people know you it's kind of like this interview it's like people just know you as being the wonderful husband to me. But I mean, you do have so much more lore, I guess is the new trending word everyone's using. When I was up with Tana at the Madonna Inn, everything was lore, like the Trish lore, the pink lore, the Madonna Inn lore, I was like the Cinnabon role. Well, it's time for coded to go, so yeah.

Coded, yeah. It's about time to move from coded to the lore. The lore, I know, I was like, what's the difference? Now that everything is coded, let's. Well, there's a lot of Moses lore. And one of our fan questions, I already know it off the top of my head, but I wrote it. I always write notes. And the reason I write notes is because I like to like refresh myself, but I know everything.

So a lot of people don't even look at these, but I have these notes. I don't know if we want to keep these or get them out to our Patreon, but Moses likes to keep little notes. This goes to our Patreons. Yeah? Yeah. You don't want to keep one of our interviews together? We've got to be true to our commitment

to our Patreons. There's a lot. We can always keep the first Valentine's Day episode one or something. But a question was from one of the water droplets. They wanted to know about your Burning Man days. Oh. Which is a whole different Moses than I would know. I feel like it's a whole different Moses than like the water,

the solitude, the floating in the ocean alone Moses. This is like you're with friends. You're cooking bacon. Post vegetarian. Wait, did you make bacon, right? That was my first. Oh, that's what it was. I was vegetarian for 15 years.

That was my first meal. My first time eating meat wasn't burning. Okay. I thought you were making the bacon. I don't know why I had that memory again. Yeah, but close. After that, I would. Facts you didn't know about Moses, he was a vegetarian for 15 years, which broke your

father's heart when he was alive because your mom was telling me he used to make really great meat and everybody was vegetarian. And he's like, what the? And you said your dad was such a good cook. And I'm like, you didn't eat his. No. Well, luckily I became vegetarian when I was like, kind of when I left home. It was later.

So I grew up most of my life growing up at the house. I did eat. You did eat the meat. But my mom and dad are amazing cooks. She said he'd be so like upset when the kids would eat his food, his meat. And because everyone was vegetarian. Yeah, it was funny. I would come back home after a long time, you know, being away for a year or two.

And to celebrate, he would do like a barbecue. Oh, and you couldn't even just one day be like, I'm going to eat some meat today. I ate the fries, the salads. Oh, doesn't that make you sad now? Because then you're such a meat eater now. Like you're like, you only eat meat. Like if I'm like, I'm going to have pasta, you'll be like, I'm going to make lamb or steak. No, because being vegetarian for that long

kind of reset my body to a place where the amount of meat that I eat now is the right amount for me. And actually I eat more fish and seafood than meat. I feel like your meat, it's steak and lamb. I feel like you're always eating

that. It looks like it, but it's steak and lamb. I feel like you're always eating that. It looks like it, but it's not always. Chicken liver, chicken hearts. Yeah, but that's also healthy. I'm not saying it's not healthy. I'm just saying you're so meat-based. But I'm saying like before that, when you say meat,

I guess I think about steak, you know. But before that, I used to eat more just red meat. But when I stopped being vegetarian, I first became pescatarian. So I ate just fish. Anyway, it was a good journey just red meat. But when I stopped being vegetarian, I first became pescatarian. So I ate just fish. Anyway, it was a good journey for me to a place where I found what diet is good for me.

Yeah. We used to eat a lot of spicy food growing up and it was really not good for me. And I didn't really know that. Right. I mean, until I kind of cleansed my body and then started introducing each thing on its own. I was like, oh, wait a minute. That makes me feel awful.

Right. Just kind of figure out. I guess that's for everyone. What was right for you? What diet is right for you? But it's good to just do resets and then finding out. Right. That's why people do like water cleanses and stuff.

They just do that. So Burning Man. So what years are you going to Burning Man? What year are we in? We're post-35. During college, I had a lot of friends that would go to like full moon gatherings here. What is that? So it just, you know, they pick a location out in the desert. Nobody knows about it until the day of the party.

Sounds a little sacrificial. No. Like let's all go out to the middle of nowhere. No, it's because it's illegal. Okay. So you don't want the police showing up knowing where you are. Okay. Why is it illegal?

Because you don't own the land. Why is it illegal? Because you don't own the land. Got it. You know what I mean? Like you can get it. Yeah. So you want to be out in nature, but it's not like you own a piece of land out in nature.

What if you did? You know some people who own acres. Some people. There have been some events we go to on wrenches. There's a few famous wrenches around LA that people go to. But anyway, we go to full moon gatherings. So that's during college because I didn't have time to go to Burning Man. That's a long period of time.

It's very expensive and I couldn't afford it in college. Which is surprising that Burning Man is expensive because everyone just looks dirty and just, but it's all like rich people out there. Yeah. It's not cheap to be homeless. That's true. That's true. But yeah, because you drive far, you have to bring with you everything you need.

It's a lot of equipment. It's a lot of food and water and costumes and whatever you do there, you know, and bicycles. And it's just a lot, you know. And we would go like 30 people with two, three trucks full of equipment and build a whole little city there. And what was your role? Same here. I would be like kind of like design, problem solving, building stuff.

We designed one art car. We just did a lot of different things. But I would just do the best I could with everything. I had this thing where we would create a lot of spaces, but I would come in and make them kind of like very cozy and loungy. You know, like the pillows and the fabrics and the decor. It's very this. Make it a little psychedelic and fun. Oh, a little psychedelic.

Okay. Was that your design for Burning Man? Well, that's the spirit of the place. Okay. You know, I always fit to the place. Like, this is not my design either. You know what I mean? Yeah.

That fits your, like a good designer makes what their client needs. Right. Not what they want. That was the aesthetic of the Burning Man. That was the place. Yeah. So, um, so I remember, I think one time I was sitting in that lounge and behind me was a big Buddha that I hung over there. And you know, the Buddha sits like this. And I, I had a joint and I was holding it like this and it looked like the Buddha was taking it out of my hand. And that's

when my friend was like, Tricky Buddha. And that was my name. Like every person has a name. Oh, I didn't know this. You were Tricky Buddha? Yeah. Okay. I didn't know. I never knew this. I don't think you've ever told me that story.

Tricky B. Wait, why Tricky Buddha? Why were you Tricky? Because you're sitting in front of a Buddha, but why were you Tricky? No, because you know me. It's not what you see is not what you get. Okay. I love that.

Was the person who coined that term at our wedding or no? No, he couldn't make it. Oh, but you might have. But you heard about him, Zeth. You heard about him. Oh, okay. Love the name. It's everything.

Tricky Buddha. Lots of new thing now people can. Tell us something about Burning Man if you want to know. That's a Moses lore right there. If anybody wants to be like Moses hardcore water droplet, you can just like comment Tricky Buddha into his Instagram. There's lots of photos from Burning Man and, you know, we'd make my own clothes and stuff.

I mean, I love, I just love that. It's really, Burning Man is about expression, self-expression. And I felt I was the most myself out there. Really? Interesting. Why is that? I just felt like the desert biblical Moses out there. Yeah. Just like nature. The clothing and the thing and the dust and the freedom and openness. And Burning Man is really about, let's say, if you know Coachella,

Coachella is about music and you're kind of confined in a space surrounded by sound stages and you watch shows. Burning Man is about art. So it's kind of the opposite. It's boundless. It's open. And you travel and you see things that you'll never see anywhere else. But it's about the art is more than the music. Huge sculptures, beautiful things out in nature.

And as a sculptor, like I consider myself a sculptor. Seeing sculptures outside of a gallery, out in nature, like that in the open space yeah that'd be cool that was just so i mean i just remember the first time i got there got on my bike and just rode into the you know the desert there's no bigger joy than that yeah so i i just loved it it's always changing like there's one saying at burning man it's like last year was better because Last year was better. Yeah, because it's always changing. Okay, I see. And if you're not somebody that adapts to change and you only live in your memory.

Like, ah, it wasn't like last year. Yeah, the first time was the most amazing time. Yeah. But then it's just a thing, you know, you enjoy it. But so it's something like that. So I don't know, today it will be different than what I experienced and somebody might go and not like it or whatever. Or if you went, I wonder if you would like it. i know what it is i would like it because i would know that i don't know what's

going to be exactly but how to adapt that's one thing we should have done together pre-kids we should have done i guess we were in quarantine they didn't happen you would last maybe a day that is not true i feel like if i was with you especially in my like in our younger years together i feel like I was more. But there's sometimes, right, but you can land on a few good days, but it could be like two,

three days of just dust storms. Oh yeah. Like the last one. Yeah. The mud and the rain. Where people were like hitching rides back. Who was it? Like some celebrities were just like trying to find rides back or something.

Yeah, it was that DJ and then somebody else. It wasn't like David Spade or someone random like that. I mean, it's hard to predict. You know what I mean? So I think for you, it needs to be more predictable

of knowing how it's going to be. I think when I first met you, I wouldn't have been like that because I liked being more, you know, I was more fun back then. I was like, let's do this.

Let's do that. Like, I just felt a little more wild and free. But I think, I still think we will go. Maybe with Malibu. You know, people take their kids to Coachella.

All my friends took their kids to Burning Man Okay so we'll go as a family But I think you know With an RV and just having a little bit more options Yeah a little elevated If you need to escape the dust into an RV Or have a shower It will be possible

I don't mind the not showering part That part kind of appeals to me a little bit Not a big shower I mean I do because of you really But I just don't like to shower that much. Well, actually, there's something like burning. The dust over there, it's almost like poo dry. It's like very fine dust.

Oh, okay. And what happens is it goes over your body and kind of absorbs all the oils and falls off. You're always clean. Interesting. That's weird. It's like your body is always clean. You're actually not dirty at Burning Man. You look dusty, but you're not dirty.

Right. You're not dirty. Moses loves to shower. He's a shower because you meditate in the shower. That's my meditation, yeah. You do a whole ritual when you get out of the shower. You do, you like get the water off. I can teach you that when you're done.

Yeah, let's see. Do you want me to hold your microphone? Are you going to do your full? I can explain it, but I do. We should show it. When you're done showering before you use the towel. So what you want to do is kind of think about it. Everything that happened, people, things, whatever was said and done,

you're breaking the ties between you and that, you know, whatever that energy. You know, sometimes you walk into a room, you talk to people, and you feel like something stayed with you. So, you know, whatever that energy, you know, sometimes you walk into a room, you talk to people and you feel like something stayed with you. And so, okay, so. Let's see, this is most of the shower ritual. You will do it like, you start with the top. So like I wipe, you would just wipe the water off, like squeegee. So you wipe it off your face, your arms.

But the intention and the thought is about cutting the ties between whatever that thing that attaches to your body. You're releasing. So I just do that with my whole body, head to toe. Always. You always do it before the towel. Yeah. And also, I don't know why.

I don't like to be too wet when I dry myself with a towel. You know what I mean? Well, you said it has something to do with your body hair because you use two towels. And I'm like, why do you use two towels? No, I just... Right? Oh, I thought you said because you make it wetter because you have you don't you don't have a ton of body hair you have very little but no I just don't think that oh it was something else I think it was a different conversation okay I'm like why do you use two towels and you're like why body hair and you like don't or something because I use one no that was something else okay I don't remember I don't remember. But I just love... Actually, I used to use three.

Really? Oh, for your hair? Because I love putting a towel over my shoulder, around my waist, and then one on the front that I would... So I would actually look like a desert person with the towels. All of it. You can use three still if you want it. You only use two. Two.

Well, I think it's warm, so I don't usually need to fully cover myself right sometimes I think it's one of our little simplicity joys I feel is like when we do get time to shower together

which is like rare I miss that because I think that's our manifesting time yeah when we're in the shower we talk clear minded

we're cleansing together I do I always enjoyed it now we do that when we take walks around the lake. That's our manifesting time. Oh, so soon we'll get to be on the lake in the boat, Christmas lights. It is great. It is so wonderful. I do love it. I do love... Water is calming, but water has always been calming to me. I always love it at the beach and stuff. I always just like being around water and stuff. It's very, very soothing

um another one of our questions a lot of fan questions because it reminded me when you were saying you build to the client like you know the set and stuff like that someone was asking if you still build furniture yeah i have this somewhere yeah so i since i graduated i've been designing you know work with different people but then on my own and just designing furniture most of them like high and large size furniture and it's kind of like tailoring suits or clothes to a person you know you just make them to fit the project the site you're on and the person I think a good designer is the designer that doesn't like exist, you know? Right.

Everything is about the person that you make it for and the space it's in. So, my clients will kind of like come and go and it shifts,

you know, usually they'll get a new house and then suddenly I have to make lots of furniture or for their offices and stuff like that. But,

yeah, it's a few clients that just always come back to me and we make things happen and every piece is one of a kind and it's always exciting. Did you ever design stuff for yourself? Sorry, go ahead. And I always get pictures of them using it and enjoying it or the kids playing with it

or something. It's fun to see. Those are fun to see, yeah, when you can like see people. How much people like them. You built some really cool like interchangeable furniture, like very cool where like you said, kids can kind of climb on it. They can build like different shapes and stuff. It's really neat. Is there any, did you ever design furniture for yourself besides our house, before our house?

No, only when we got married. You never did a piece for yourself ever? Not really because I mean, I would think maybe if I, you know, had, I don't know, like the museum or like then I would have designed pieces for that. Or if I had a showroom, you know, maybe I would make some pieces and then. But that just never happened. I was always busy. Yeah. Like I never had the time to or a place of my own, you know, like to have a place where this is my house.

I'm going to design furniture for this house that will stay here. Right. Because. Because before that I moved a lot and moving is horrible as it is. Yeah. So you want to minimize the amount of stuff you move. We couldn't move out of our house because our furniture is so massive and just like stuck.

Our stone table, our huge couch. I had to be airlifted in basically. So it's wild. Were you always doing oversized furniture yeah yeah i was always like i remember you showed me a table you showed me couches that were like oversized table that's like 23 feet long from a wood we got from fiji and all kind of stuff like that like it just always been something big and different and unique is this i'm giving you a story mixed up did you get wood from mel gib Gibson's son?

Yeah. Okay. So random. Only because there's another connection I have to Mel Gibson, not me, but someone else I knew. And I was like, is that you too?

And I just remember everyone talking about his son getting wood. I don't know. Anyways. Yeah. That was really cool. And we, yeah, we did a lot of projects together. Like,

cause they have, I think it's called monkey tree. It's the type of a rain tree, but they have an Island in Fiji or something And they bring the trees from there And I got the wood from Mel Gibson's island That's so crazy

It's very Kardashian coded It's a good island to be connected to Fiji island Because remember Kim Kardashian was talking about Oh this wood is from I think we saw a compilation of rich people Talking about their wood So it's like every person was talking about The wood is from here, the wood is from... What was it? I think we saw a compilation of rich people talking about their wood. Wood, yeah.

So it's like every person was talking about the wood is from here. The wood is from there. We need something from Fiji wood in our house. And we're not very wood coated here. Right. Well, we'll see. I mean, there'll be a project that will kind of suddenly present itself to us. Be like, we need a wood from Fiji. But we're more, you know, marble and things are more shiny and glamorous.

Which your house was white marble as a kid. So you kind of manifested it. My family, my whole family worked in marble. Like everyone, all my uncles, my dad, everyone worked in the marble world. So I grew up around like huge stones and yeah. So cool. That's why I think I was also never afraid of like materials and working with things right because i saw my dad were like i would go to work with him and we would move around blocks of marble that were like one or two ton because they have methods they literally work like you know the egyptians or something we had all kind

of methods where you use like wood to roll it over and then tip it over and roll it to place and landed it in. And it's dangerous, too, because one wrong move and it will crush your fingers. And that's me as a kid. Oh, my God. That's crazy. With my dad. It was very intense. Well, you're lucky that you've kept all yours.

We're getting white marble in our floor soon. I'm very excited. This will be reminding. And black marble white marble in our floor soon. I'm very excited. This will be reminding. And black marble. Our bed is white marble. I always liked it and I never had it before you. So kind of you're the marble king from the beginning. You've always had it.

I had another question from our fans that asked, what do you think of the North Sea TikToks? Let me think about it.'s pretty good that was pretty good that's what i think about it you didn't even know about it until like a month ago. Well, we have different TikTok for you pages. It came on yours before it came on mine. Which is wild. So what did you think about it when you saw it? I mean, I liked it. Well, I've always known there's a subreddit about like fear of water.

So they always post videos and pictures like that of like boats in the ocean, big waves. Yeah. Things that are scary that makes you feel small, basically, like makes the ocean feel so big and powerful. So I've known all that imagery, but then it was funny, especially when the ones I saw was you. Yeah. I don't know what that correlation was, but. Like you walking a little boat in that ocean. My for you page is mainly fan pages of Trisha and conspiracy theories.

I know. You do have a lot of conspiracy theories. It's like, where did these come from? I don't know. TikTok is wild. How is that what you search for? I feel like you look for stuff you... No.

No. TikTok works the way if you see something through, then they'll show you more of the same. Oh, so you're watching them through. I never look for something. Would you ever go to the North Sea? Yeah, we should. We should go on a cruise to Antarctica.

Is that the North Sea? Antarctica? There's this North Pole and this South Pole. That's what they call the North Sea. I didn't know. No, I'm just saying we should go to it. I want to see the icebergs and the penguins and whales. When are we going to go? We'll have to wait until the kids get a little older, I think. They'll love it. Oh, they'll love it. Could you imagine being a kid and the penguins and whales. When are we going to go? I'll have to wait until the kids get a little older, I think.

They'll love it. Oh, they'll love it. Could you imagine being a kid and seeing penguins and stuff? Malibu already loves penguins. Does she? Mm-hmm. When? Where does she see them?

Oh, on the TV. Here and there, yeah. Oh, my God. I know. I can't wait to take her to like... Yeah, I guess Anaheart is really the only humane way to view penguins and their natural habitat because otherwise you take them to the zoo and there's controversy there and she'll love it though. We're going to the zoo.

Me and you. That's all we have in our heads now. Going to the zoo. Shout out Miss Rachel. Someone did ask, what's it like being a girl dad? It's great. I mean, I think, I don't know. It's amazing how much they love their dad.

So it's cool our girl oh yeah in general girls well not every girl there's a lot of daddy issues it is crazy because there's that term daddy's girl and i was like never really understood that and then it's like now i see it through well people will say that too with mal or anyone who has a healthy relationship with their father they're're like, yeah, they're daddy's girl. So she is. I mean, it's fun. It's amazing. I think it just, it works because it's in line with what we've already been doing as far as a marriage

and being with you and then there's another girl. You know what I mean? It's like it works in line. But girls are just amazing because they're so – she's so calm and creative and smart. I mean, she knows a hundred words and she's not a year and a half yet. So smart. So it's fun and I don't know. I mean, it's fun because she's so gentle and creative.

And so are you. You're such a gentle parent. Like my mom always says, everyone always says it. It's just like how calm and patient you are with everything and um yeah i think being a girl dad suits you for sure i think like also just her she is there is a bond like i can't even explain it like how she's so connected to you and um yeah i don't know she just loves if you go away she's like oh she's like just wants you around yeah but i mean it's both of us but yeah it's she's like, oh, she just wants you around. Yeah, but I mean, it's both of us. But yeah, it's like when I'm with her, she's always like, mama, mama.

And we're like, because I always tell her, you want to go show mama? And she's like, yes, let me go show you stuff. I mean, she has this cute face now. She is getting more mommy's girl. But I love seeing it. I love it. It's the best. It's the most healing for me to see that relationship.

And I'm so happy for her. I love seeing the relationship. And I love – I just think it's so cool and I'm so glad we're having another girl. And one of the questions to kind of segue into the next one, toxic masculinity. And also it was kind of like part of the same question, getting I I guess, hated on or judged for being, I guess some would say a present father, but being a primary caregiver or being so involved. I guess I don't really know how. The person who asked the question was very nice. Toxic masculinity.

They basically were saying they didn't have a present father, so they enjoy watching it. But how does it feel getting judgment and hate for being hands-on maybe more so than me at times? You're definitely the more – you just have a lot of energy and you're more active and stuff like that as far as like – you're just more initiative when it comes to it. You're just more natural. But you get a lot of hate for it. A lot of people call you moms-ess. A lot of people call you a nanny. When in reality, like this girl said, she's like, it's a present father that I wish I had. So she was enjoying it. She was just asking, how does it feel, this culture and being taunted for that?

First of all, I don't – to me, that's all compliments. Same. Because I feel like from the stuff that I've learned one of the most the things that is missing the most in our society now is fathers like dads like it's just absent in so many 11 levels in so many places so for me i knew that the one thing i wanted to do is be present to be there for both the wife and the kids. Like, no. And I didn't even know that I was going to be so hands-on and connected. I just didn't know. It kind of happened, right? It's like an instinct that just came into action.

And I think that's where we balance each other so well, you know, because, like, it's always been the case. With everything we do, there's things that you do best and things that I do best. And usually they're different things. So we always balance each other perfectly. And that's what it's really about. So I think anyone that has issue with a dad being present either didn't have a dad or they're jealous or they just don't know.

Like they don't know what the issue is in their life and the issue in general. So again, it comes from a place of judgment, comes from a place of hate, might be even jealousy because I think it's hard. I mean, I remember even for myself to see other families

that I thought were the ideal families in my mind. It was hard to watch. It was hard to see something that I didn't have or feel like I wanted. So I understand that, like, it's hard. But I think try to make it instead of trying to break somebody else's, you know. I agree with that for sure. I feel like you see something for my perspective is like you see someone like a boyfriend that was always around. They'd call him like a payroll boyfriend or a golden retriever or something like that.

And it's like when in reality, I do think it comes from my jealousy of like someone who doesn't have that, who's like boyfriend isn't present, who doesn't do the things or husbands. You know what I mean? And we see that a lot on TikTok. It's just so many moms asking the dads for the bare minimum. Change a diaper. Come to a birthday party. Help plan a party or something. And so when they see you do not only that, but like really just everything, like not only are you planning it, you're building it, you're, you know, getting her dressed

for it. You're like doing everything. They're just like, maybe, yeah, I think it has to be a little bit of jealousy, I think, or just either for themselves, they didn't have it or they don't have it currently. Because it is, it's hard to find. You're rare. I mean, you're a rare person for sure. I mean, the role of the dad is to protect the children and to be there to protect them.

And most kids that got hurt is because there wasn't somebody there to protect them. And that's why I feel like, you know, they act out when they see somebody else that's been protected because it's like – They didn't get that. They weren't protected. Yeah, and it's horrible that they weren't. And I think that goes also to what you were talking about, like people asking about – I don't know if it's toxic masculinity. Like it's usually it's not – it's usually weak men that don't protect their families, that don't protect their children, that don't stand up to the things they need to stand up to and let things by.

So I think it's more, yeah, because to me, I don't see anyone as like, I don't know if it's toxic. I just see them as weak. It's weakness. Kind of the same. I guess it's just like the new term is toxic masculinity, which is very much if you're a guy who thinks like you shouldn't have to do, change a diaper because you're a guy or you shouldn't have to cook or you shouldn't do this.

That to me is toxic masculinity. I don't know. It's kind of – but at the same time, it's those guys that are like wanting the traditional roles and that at the same time also expect the woman to work and like pay the bills. It's like, okay, do you want someone to take care of your kids? But they also want her to be like a modern woman and like work and contribute to the bills. It's like, that's not. Yeah, I think it's.

You can't have. It just seems like a very old fashioned way of thinking about things, I guess. And because I could have a choice of, you know, getting a nanny and then working full time. But all I'll have, all I'll be is thinking about Malibu or being with her or working with time. But all I'll be is thinking about Malibu or being with her or working with her. Like the investment, because altogether what they are, we're talking about the year,

let's say from one to four, five, to really help them shape a really good personality and shape a good sense of confidence, creativity, all those things so to give five years of your life for your kid is nothing in the grand scheme of things i gave five years to college i gave four years for high school i gave eight years for elementary school i gave i gave so many years to so many other people i worked in jobs for six years and seven like i did so many for so many other people so this is the

project right now and this is what i'm giving the best and the most i can give to and i remember it was like random in some restaurant this guy came up to me old guy really old guy he came up to me and because he saw our interaction with malibu and he's like you know, he said something like kids come back to the parents that were there for them. Like, because he says, I don't know what it is that he saw, but he saw something and he was like, you know, and he was very like happy. And something about her basically coming back to us rather than just leaving and not coming back. Oh, yeah. Which many kids do you know yeah just leave so i don't know again that's not the reason i do it but i want to just give her all

the tools she needs to be independent in life happy then she can choose whatever she wants to do in life and i'll support that you know and we're lucky that we're able to too i mean that it does our daycare system everything is so messed up that child care is so expensive where it's like you have to work to do it. If you're like a single parent, you have to work, but then you have to pay for the childcare. It's just like this vicious cycle. So we are, like if anything, I just think we are so lucky. So like the people that do hate, and most people are very like, they love it.

They're like dad goals, husband goals. But I feel like the very few that do hate is that because we are so lucky that we're able to do it. And I think more people probably would want to be home with their kids and they just can't. Or they would love their husband home, you know, but they're working or they're not choosing to be home or whatever. So I think we're lucky and, you know, people can see that. The thing is when hate sees love, there's nothing it wants more than to destroy it.

Oh, well, that's so... And especially when it's children, you know. You'll see parents destroy their own children because they see their love and they can't, they just can't and they'll destroy it. So I don't know. And people forget I'm 46. It's like I've had 45 years of being selfish and doing everything just for me. I've done everything I wanted to do, accomplished all my dreams.

It's time for somebody else to shine and to get all of what I have to give. And it's fine. And if I was in my 20s, it would be a different story. If I was in my 30s, it would be a different story. But Malibu is lucky. We're lucky. This is the situation we're in. And that's our subjective story.

You know, anyone else to draw any judgment or compare it to anything else is just wasting their time. It is. At the end of the day, it's just a waste of time. Especially us. It's like you can't compare it to anything because it's so their time. It is. At the end of the day, it's just wasted time. Especially us. Like you can't compare it to anything because it's so, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

Yeah. I feel like on that like same sort of vibe is like I've always liked you. I've always, I always refer to you as like, I always like, what would you call it? Like, because you are, you are very masculine, but I always say you're like a femme masculine. Like you have like feminine, like you can be feminine – like, you can be in your feminine. You can be in your feminine side, I guess you could say. Like, you're very – I don't know how the word is. But you're – and that's what I love.

And I think that's the most masculine thing. We were talking about it with a guest yesterday, too. I think it's the most male thing you can do is to be, like, in touch with, like, feelings and also just, like, talking about it and letting – you know, I never had a guy let me cry or like, you know, try to understand why I'm crying or why I'm upset. Even my dad, I think when you asked him for permission to marry me, which was like so sweet, he said something like you done what I haven't been able to do, which is basically, I don't know how he phrased, I'm sure it was the wrong wording he phrased, but basically understand me, but maybe more of like –

Not judge. Yeah. Yeah. And he's like, I've never been able to kind of get through to my daughter because there was just like a barrier, and I think that was me with most guys. But we haven't even gotten – I mean, that was a whole other question about just understanding me and figuring it all out. But what would you say to, I guess, just the men out there that suffer from this world of toxic masculinity? We have to be like a man and stuff. What does it mean to be a man to you? What does being the man of the house, what does being a father, a husband, or being just a man in the world mean to you and what's important? Because you are the

best man I know and I think there should be a thousand more like you. So if there's a lecture, a lesson to being a good man, what would you say? Oh, that's a long lecture, but no. Me or you? Oh, you, actually. Well, we have time. We have another hour if you want.

What is a man? No, I'm joking. So the man has the opportunity to kind of like channel into the house the the love you know to bring it into the house and then it's kind of like the love and the order and um i think i think why i'm not comfortable with the question is more um because like i said before you can be you can be a woman and have that spirit of the man. And you can be a man. So I don't want people to get stuck and think we're just talking about men in their physical body.

I think the way society views men. So all I'm saying is like in good relationship, there's a balance between the masculine and the feminine. And that can present itself in the different bodies. Right? Okay. So don't be stuck on like we're talking about like, you know what I mean? I'm talking more about like... But to be that good masculine energy in the household is...

Because when you're strong, you're not angry. You're not... Because a lot of men think that to be a strong man you have to show force you have to be you know assertive and angry and um violent to some degree right whether it's in speech or in action or actual violence that's the opposite because if you can't bring you know love and peace to your house without violence then you you're not, it just won't happen. So I think a lot of people overcompensate and are afraid to be softer or to be vulnerable or to be in their more feminine side.

They're afraid and they freak out. And then some of the worst criminals are people that are basically, were not straight, right? They were like in their opposite bodies and they were so freaked out by it that they had to prove themselves like no i am this body so i don't know for me again it all goes back to love so love judgment is hate no hate no judgment anger is a form of expressing hate and judgment right like we're praising the kids you get angry that it ruins their soul like you can't

get angry with a child you can't yeah that's why they're so they need the medications and all that they're showing so much anxiety because they deal with so much anger and judgment from their parents yeah we're definitely in the new wave of a generation where like, yes, the fathers are in our presence. We see them at like dance recitals and stuff like that. But also, yeah, not getting angry. I just talked about this with someone the other day

where it's like, we were told like, stop crying. Like, you know, you're faking all stuff like that rather than being like, okay, why are you crying? Like, what's wrong? Which I feel like any, like us, me, whatever, our generation was not like that. And now we're in this new age of like understanding. So hopefully, and again, I go back to like the men, the male and like little boys, because I think little boys are just, I think I sent you a TikTok of how they're treated so differently than the little girls,

right? Little girls, it's like, oh, that's so cute. And like little boy does something, he's like, you know, stop doing that. You look ridiculous or something like that. They just get treated so much harder. So they have to develop this like harder, he's like, you know, stop doing that. You look ridiculous or something like that. They just get treated so much harder. So they have to develop this like harder skin, but hopefully, you know, they can just see from like a, again, their dad or whoever, like that you can be, you can be soft. You can have feelings. You can cry if you're a guy. I just think sometimes men have it harder and that's why they turn out to be a little bit, or boys have it harder than they turn out to be these like hard men that need to be tough and have to show that they're tough and stuff. There was a podcast clip. Did you see it? It was a guy, of course, a podcaster guy,

who said like the spouse or the partner should always – the woman should always weigh less than the man in a relationship and that's because the man – you haven't seen this clip? It's so viral. He's like that's because the man should know haven't seen this clip? It's so viral. He's like, that's because the man should know and she should know that he could kill her at any moment, but he wouldn't because he loves her, but he's capable of doing it or something. Did you ever saw that clip? It's super viral.

And I'm just like, and all the comments on it. So what's like worried me is I was just like, wait, what? Cause people were like, yeah, this, like you should know that you're able to like crush your wife or something like that, but you're not going to do it. You should know that you're able to crush your wife or something like that, but you're not going to do it because you love her and you're going to – but she's going to have that fear.

And I was like – and so many people agreed with him. It's all over the place. I've probably even seen it. I've seen it. Yeah, I guess it's kind of like the – it all goes back to the lack of fathers in the homes. For the boys too. That's where you get the Andrew Tates

and all those people. It's like boys need a male figure. You know, they need a dad. They need, and again, it can come from, it can have two mothers and one of them has that energy, but they need that. They need that energy.

And if they don't get that, then they seek it elsewhere. And then they find all those people that have those podcasts that tell them those stupid things. I think that's what it is. And they feel like, oh yeah, you know, like, cause they want to feel that, you know. Right.

Having the two parents presence again, it could be like you said, any gender, any sex, but it's like not having that, you know. Cause if you'll have two of the same, you're going to like into something. Right. So they, they need that. But I don't know. To me, again, the man is – to me, a strong man is very calm, very collected, not angry, not violent, not like able to get all the things he needs to get done without being violent and being angry and all those things. I mean, shout out to all the single moms and single parents that do raise really good

boys and stuff like that. I think it's, cause I think it's like makes it, it does make a job more difficult because, you know, our dad was alive, but he just wasn't like around that much. So then it leads with thoughts of like, oh, he abandoned me. We weren't good enough for him. Like, why am I not good enough for him? You know, like all this stuff like that. So it's hard. Sometimes life just deals with that too. Sometimes the dad's not around, not alive or whatever, you know. It can be a lot of things. So shout out to all the single parents.

It's hard and it's hard. And if you're a child. What's the point for the kids to know that parent never left you. They left the other parent. Like no parent leaves their child. They leave the other parent. Like whatever it was, it was impossible for them to be around and deal with. So they left.

Yeah. But it's hard to like think that as a kid. Of course. As kids, you know, I had my own thoughts, even though my parents were together. But, you know, I felt like maybe they were together because of me. So it was also a different way of feeling bad about it. Yeah. Even if they don't make you feel that way.

Yeah. If you're just like, oh, maybe because of me, they had to a different way of yeah even if they don't make you feel that way yeah if you're just like oh maybe because of me they had to be together or whatever i know there's there's so much different like traumas and stuff like that but um that's why i kind of do love social media for that way too because i feel like people who don't necessarily have father figure mother figure just parental figures in their life they kind of can seek that out through you know the mom and dads of the internet, if you will, or whatever. I think that's – and that's why I always love being on social media and that's why I continue to be because I'm like, yeah, you can kind of be someone's mom or sister

or something like if they don't get that advice. When I was first starting, I would always give advice on how to put on tampons and stuff because it's just like stuff I never talked about. You know what I mean? And I think that's what's great about you is, again, it's different strokes for different folks, but it shows like a present father, a father who wants to be there, a father who does everything. Like Malibu, we'll talk about this today. We'll always look back at videos and always see like how much she was wanted, how much she was loved, how well you treated me, how like so especially you treated her.

And she'll just like have those forever, you know. In real life too, you're like that. And that's another way of, you know, giving your daughter a good example of what men she should pursue in life because she won't take anything less than what she saw in her own home. So that's really important. Oh, it's going to be, she's going to find like an amazing person because it's going to be so hard to compare to you. It'll be like one of those things where she's just like, I don't know, but I was pretty great. But a lot of people who didn't have a dad growing up, you're like, well well I'll just take any guy who will no because if they see

the you know somebody being mistreated in their relationship then they'll think that's normal and they think that's just how it is and they'll accept it

in our case you'll see something you know somebody will try something and be like no that's not how you treat a person that's just wrong

which is like the greatest thing that's the greatest gift and then she'll just be so be able to be secure and I'm super excited for that we had one other question we had a couple we have a lot more questions but we have only time for a few more um but there was one about there's favorite moments together and dating someone with mental illness and these are both really great ones oh man all right we'll go we'll go with uh because there's a there's a beautiful clip already of you we did a whole deep dive on

dating someone with mental illness am i the first person you dated that was mentally ill that you knew of probably not i mean i don't know mean, I don't think so, but I think it's the first time that I got to, I happen like between us before we met let's say in the past i would take everything personally right i would think let's say you say something to me and it's not nice and i would take it personally and i'll be angry at you and where today i wouldn't even take it personally or think that it's directed at me and then we'll just work through it right so it's so the big difference is really about knowing that if somebody has a male mental illness or any kind of issue that it's their issue. Right.

Like it's not mine, it's yours and everything's coming my way. It's not personal to me. It's something that you're dealing with at that moment. So it's more finding out like the kid, why are you crying? It's finding out why you're feeling this way and what's going on rather than be like can't believe you said this to me and you know i'm leaving right i feel like because we didn't have our

own struggles with that where i like didn't i like it was me like not wanting to like trigger something i don't want to talk about it but then you'd be like it's controlling the conversation or whatever but i was like oh but it's like, what? This is such an interesting. Right. Because I'm able to just sit down and talk forever about something and not get, yeah, not get triggered. Right. And for you, like at some point you just knew, okay, I need to stop here and come back to it later. Because we saw what happens when it doesn't stop.

Yeah. So then I was like, well, but that's not fair. I want to talk about it now. Like, I want to, like, why are you stopping? Like, are you not wanting to talk about it because you think I'm right or you think you're wrong or you think you're right? Right. You're just like trying to end the conversation.

Trying to control the conversation. And like, so it's not about control. It's about you actually was trying to self-control you. I think it's tough to date someone with a mental illness. I think as someone who does, I could never date someone who had something similar to me. I mean, even though I could understand it. No, you would trigger each other endlessly. Yeah. That's true. I'd be locking myself in the bathroom. They'd be locking themselves in the bathroom. You have a baby. You would be like, wait, what?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I guess what is like the best piece of advice, I guess, for understanding someone's mental illness? And also, I guess, you know, because I would also never expect someone to stick around because it can feel at the beginning, it can feel personal and it can be personal sometimes, you know, like personal attacks and stuff like that. How would you suggest people if they love someone, how do you suggest them dealing with outbursts, with the side effects of mental illness,

all that stuff like that? Well, I think you just have to really look at what's happening. Just think that you're not in the room. This is happening, right? So none of the words are coming towards you. Nothing is happening to you. But it is. No, but I'm saying that.

So step aside in your mind for a second. Look at the situation and try to evaluate, okay, is what's happening with this person? How can I help them? What do they actually need right now rather than what's happening to me, what's said about me? Because, again, I don't think it's personal. But sometimes it's manageable. Sometimes it's not, too. Like you shouldn't stay in an abusive relationship.

So it's important to, that's what I'm saying, to step aside and try to look at what's actually happening. And then when things calm down, you'll find the truth, right? The dust will settle and then you'll find out how that person really feels. They feel horrible about what they said. They didn't mean what they say. Something else happened that triggered them. And then you can decide to decide to yourself okay can i live in a relationship knowing these are the triggers and i'm able not to push those triggers or maybe you can't and you will always push those triggers then walk away this is not for you because you're going to be constantly um because i think what's not fair is that um i could easily always trigger you and then you'll feel bad for being triggered.

Like basically control you through the anger, right? Because when somebody is angry at you, you win. If you make somebody angry, you won. So again, so I think it's really important to watch and see somebody pushing your triggers to make you angry and trying to control you? Is somebody getting angry, they have triggers, and you're not willing to, you know, do the work not to push those triggers? There's a lot of – it's not easy, but – Yeah, it's like understanding.

To explain it. Yeah. But it's easy if you're looking at the person. I think because if you really love the person easy if you're looking at the person. I think because if you really love the person, then you're not judging their actions. Trying to understand it. But then also in your love, you're talking to the love part that's in them. And that part is not mentally ill.

That's, I think, what's important to understand. The part that that person has in them that is love is not ill. It's actually totally fine. And the more you bring it out the better they'll be um because the the term you know the term like love the hell out of somebody yes what do you think that means um yeah just that like love them i forgot i know what it is it's like love the hell out of It's like kind of like you love the mental illness out of me. You know what I mean? Right. So it doesn't mean like you love them a lot.

It means you're using love to take hell out of them. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because they're in hell. There's hell in them. Love the hell out of them. Yeah.

It's using love to take the hell out of them. That's true. You love the hell out of me. That's for sure. Because people in this world are either in heaven or hell, but it's in this world. It's here. Oh, it was awful. When I was where I was, it was horrible to like lash out on so many people and just be

that person that unhinged, crazy, stay away from, dangerous. Like, you know, it's like nobody wants to be that person. And I just thought, well, that's just me. That's just like what I'm dealt with, like whatever. And I feel, I really do feel like love, you love, your love healed me, love the hell out of me, all of that stuff like that, because I feel, I guess it's a more manageable now. I guess I do have like my instances, but it's definitely nowhere near where it was, not even just at you, but just because it's usually the people closest to you, mentally ill people kind of like lash at

it, but you know, on the internet and stuff like that to be so angry. And so it's like, it's a whole different- Yeah, because it was to a point where you had to self-medicate to not feel so bad and anxious about yourself. Well, what about now? Because I guess it's a different, I wouldn't even call it mental illness. I don't know if it's, I think there's like a post, like a prenatal part of it. It's like postnatal where this pregnancy has been a lot harder as far as my emotions. I feel like I'm so much more emotional. I mean, you guys saw now I just like cry over everything and there'll be times where I just cry. Like we'll be out on our date night and I'm just like crying because I just am for no reason. Or I'll just say I'm just sad or I'm just unhappy. We had one over Christmas

break and I'm just like, I just feel so miserable. And I would tell you, like literally you're perfect. Like I was crying. I was going to get my nails done and I was sitting out there and I was just crying. I was like, this is everything I dreamed of. And every other day I'm so happy and everything's perfect. And I've got my daughter's perfect. I have a perfect husband. I have this beautiful house. The careers are good. Everything's great. And I was just like, why am I so unhappy? How do you, how do you deal with that? Cause like you really are a saint. Is it patience? Is it, what's the secret to dealing with someone going through either depression, whether they're pregnant or not, or any sort of like. Yeah. Cause I mean the post,

postpartum depression, I mean, that's real. And it's, it's really something that, you know, I want to be able to understand, but I know that it exists. So again, it's not taking it personally. Like you're going through something, some people say it's hormones. So I'm like, okay, maybe it's hormones. Maybe it's just that. And that, I don't know, it's kind of, to me, it's hard to, like, it's not an excuse. I don't know how to explain it, but it's not, because I think things are not just chemical, but yeah, like we definitely seen with pregnancy and postpartum

that there is something that the body goes through. So it can be explained in many ways, right? You had a baby inside your body and now it left and your body goes through so many changes and making the baby has taken away so many, you know, nutrients and minerals and things out of your body.

Like there's, so there's definitely reasons to be and feel all that. So I think it's just really helping you just go through it, helping you navigate through it and not feel so, not to feel alone because then it's even worse if somebody feels that and then you get angry at them and then they feel like they're doing something wrong and then it spirals into something else right because that moment that's

the only issue and at some point it goes away but then if you're angry about it and get upset then you add another issue to that now so now they're upset about being upset and and you know it's a spiral that will just keep going down um so being really being a support is sometimes all you can do. Sometimes just being, even just listening, even if you have no solution, because there is sometimes no solution to it when you feel that way. I know for me, it's just like I have literally everything. There's no other solution. One time I was sick, just like with some flu or something.

And it was one of those serious flus and they gave me a steroids i guess with the medicine you know how sometimes they give you steroids with the medicine to help it work faster or stronger or whatever i remember having this intense feelings and emotions just swap through me about things and things that I would never feel a certain way about and I would just feel like sad or emotional or something or I remember something as simple as like

a food that I wanted that I didn't have and I felt like I want to cry I don't have this food right now so anyway those steroids which I think is kind of equivalent to hormones and I immediately stopped taking it I was like I'd rather be sick So anyway, so those steroids, which I think is kind of equivalent to hormones. Right. And I immediately stopped taking them. I was like, I'd rather be sick.

That feeling. I'd rather have the flu. Those are awful feelings to have too. Than to have that. But that's the one time. I never knew that about you. That I had this weird, like emotional rollercoaster that had nothing to do with reality, had nothing to do with anything. But the feeling was so intense and so, yeah, like, just, I just wanted to cry.

That you experienced that. Because that's exactly how I feel when I. To me, that is probably 1% out of what you feel, you know. Yeah. So that's how I tried to gauge it. Like, that's how I tried to think about it. I was like, okay. So, and it's horrible because it's not, you can't control it. It's awful. Like, you can't control it. I was like, okay. And it's horrible because you can't control it. It's awful. You can't

control it. And you just like the tears and the body and you feel so much. I was so upset last night. I was crying in bed at one in the morning. I didn't sleep at all. I was like, I cannot sleep because yesterday I had mac and cheese for lunch. And then I had cacio e pepe for dinner. And I was just thinking all I had was this buttery cheesy and I really wanted to steak the guy our friend across from me was ordering filet and I wanted it but I didn't know how I was going to be at that restaurant so I'd like maybe I shouldn't order it and that's all I was thinking about and then I just started crying and I was just like thinking like why didn't I order that steak like why did I why did I just have noodles all day yesterday and I didn't even enjoy the noodle I didn't like the cacio e pepe I didn't

like the Kraft mac and cheese I had and I was just thinking like my gosh, now my baby missed a day of protein when I could have been eating steak for it. And I really wanted the steak. And I was thinking about that even today. I was like, okay, do we go to Masters down the street after this? Because I know I'm going to like their steak. Because if I don't like the steak at the place, I won't eat it. And then I feel bad when I can't eat something or I eat a second dinner like I did that one night where I ordered pizza. And then I feel bad about that. And it just spiraled me so much. And I was so upset all night. I just like cried and cried and cried. I was just like up and I was just anxious and like jittery about it. And it was just like one of those things. Yeah. I couldn't control. I was just like crying and sobbing. And it was so, it was so odd.

It was so, and it was like, it really, I really upset me where I was just like, what am I even doing in life? Like it just really became this spiral. I'm like, what does all this even mean? And thankfully I woke up and I showered and I felt like better. I mean, we had pizza for lunch, but I was just like, oh my gosh. And then that's- Because we're having steak for dinner. I know. But then I was like, well, we can't cook steak because tomorrow we have like a photo shoot here and like, I don't want to, you know, have dishes. I have this thing with dishes when people come over. So it was just like this whole thing. So I'm like, okay, our New Year's steak has like five minutes. And like, I know I like it, but will Mal malibu like it like we'll be able you know it's just like the

whole thing it's just and i spiral over food i spy if i can't get benihana like i spiral i get you just let the thoughts run you rather than but it's not even that it's almost it's like a deep deep connection it's like the benihana of it all too it's just like okay i haven't had benihana and like that's that's protein that's for my baby and i feel neglectful like it's very weird but i'm like no but then most of the thing i'm like, because we can't really go. That's what I'm saying. See how all those thoughts make you feel bad. It doesn't matter which direction you're going to go with it.

And you never do make me feel bad. Right. It's not me. If I'm like, I want to go to Benihana alone or with Zach Sang or with my mom or whoever, Jeremy, you'll just be like, you never say no. But I always feel bad. It's mostly because like, it's just a long thing and Malibu's sitting there. She's not into it yet.

You know, the smoke and everything. But I sometimes just... But I'm saying like,'s sitting there. She's not into it yet, you know, the smoke and everything. But I sometimes just. But I'm saying like let's say you're not thinking about it at all and you just say, hey, I'm going to Benihana with my mom now. Like, cool. That's it. That's it. That's the actual reality of it. I know.

I know. The reality of life is that. I was just so upset last night. I was like, why didn't I? I should have ordered a steak after I saw his. I don't know. It's like so. And the ketchup was just like buttery and I thought I could feel it in my arteries.

I would have ordered this steak. I didn't think about it. It was like so – and the ketchup was just like buttery and I thought I could feel it in my arteries. You would have told me I would have ordered this thing. I didn't think about it that way. It like sounded good. But I was like, maybe it's not going to be good at this restaurant. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know I would have. And I would have honestly ordered a side had I even thought it was going to be good.

And then I saw it. And he did offer me. Our friend did offer me. He's like, do you want some? I'm like, no. But I really did. I really wanted some. You did get the crab cake for me.

They ordered a crab cake. You did get a pretty hefty size. I'm like, that's too much. But they were nice to share it with me because I ordered the calamari and it was grilled. I'm like, well, I've never seen something like that. It was grilled calamari. I wish I was taking a picture of it. I was like, I've never seen that ever.

I did not. Yeah. Ooh, Capital Grill calamari sounds good too. Maybe we should go. But they're right to see mac and cheese too. I was like, I could get a steak. But singing about food anyways. We do have that master's close to us, but I guess it's a weird vibe. I guess if we go early at like five when they open. Yeah, but it's not even about at this point, you need to get that steak. I just want to eat the food. That's what it is.

That's what I'm saying. Like when you're pregnant, your body tells you what you need and you have to get it for it. Yeah, I'm really, but I'm picky too. Otherwise it will just torture you around it until you get it. And I was. And last night it was, it was weird. It was almost like, you know, I talk about when I don't take my iron pill

like my foot kind of feels numb like I have restless it felt like my whole body was like restless like syndrome where it was just like it was all like pins and needles

it was really uncomfortable yeah you need it it was really weird okay so let's end on like happy notes what is favorite memory together and what's a memory

you look forward to creating together we have so many favorite memory together and what's a memory you look forward to creating together i've we have so many favorite memories together but i guess probably like as far as just me and you yeah it would be like the proposal yeah i was gonna say that too yeah like the proposal and that was a high time right after the proposal that night yeah because we stayed out in a hotel so we were just just the two of us and just we literally drove to the sunset it was like this beautiful drive we stayed at the hotel we were calling everyone to tell them um i couldn't wait to give you your ring so once you have the ring i was like happy about it my favorite thing

ever and yeah i think the proposal was really... That was like such a natural high. That was just like, wow. It felt like we made it through so much. Yeah, and your reaction was so... I never thought it would happen. Happy and real. For me, just seeing you happy made me happy.

Oh my God, because it was like such a dream scenario in every sense of the word. But it was just surreal because I never thought it would happen. Never in a million years would I ever think like I'd get like a proposal, like from like a dream guy. And like, even back then, like I was like, I loved you of course, but it's like, just not just seeing how far it's come. I'm like, God, it's like, you're even better than anywhere back then. Like, it's like every day is better, better. But back then I was so in love with you. It was like this dream proposal, dream ring. The fact that you like paid attention to like one or two times I told you about this ring.

Called my dad. We just had done music videos. You were listening to my chemical romance on the way up. You like, you know, I was passenger princess sleeping. We had McDonald's breakfast. Like it was just like this all perfect thing. I don't know. And you were so cute and sweet.

And we were in cosplay. And it was just like, I don't know. Everything about it was perfect. You remember like we got there, we were in the sand dunes filming Jasmine. Oh, yeah. And so we were on site and then the photographer coming in, he went to the Rangers and he was like. No, he thought it was like a music video shoot that I was doing. Right, because at the time that's what it was. You were doing music video after music video and he would come to the music video to take photos. So in his mind, this is one a music video shoot that I was doing. Right, because at the time, that's what it was. You were doing music video after music video, and he would come to the music video to take photos.

So in his mind, this is one more music video. So he goes to the Rangers, and he's like, where's the photo shoot? Oh, gosh. We almost got kicked out. And the thing is that they don't allow any photo shoots over there, commercial photo shoots, at all. And they came up. Unless you have a permit and all that. So anyway, I see the photographer driving

an arranger with him and i was like oh no you know and then the arranger coming over and he's like this is not happening today like there's no photo shoot you guys and i'm in the car so i don't know what's happening i'm like sitting in the front so i'm i'm like this is serious and i'm like how do i you know and and then suddenly I realized, you know what, just be vulnerable, say the truth. And, you know, I was like, so I looked at the officer. I was just like, look, man, this is, I know what it looks like, but the reality is I'm about to propose, you know, and this is what I'm doing. I promise you, this is not commercial. We're not posting, you know, we're not selling these photos.

We're not filming a product. We're not doing anything. This is really what it's about and uh and he made me go to the car and get the ring that's crazy so i went to the car and he's like what's happening i was like nothing yeah i remember i had the ring in my camera case so i go back i show him the ring i gave him everything my driver license my information my address he's like if I see this photo used for commercial use we're coming back up to you

oh my gosh I'm like don't worry that's fine I think he had to steal the ring so we what if he just grabbed it and went he's like I gotta confiscate

this from you we know who he is what if he was a fake ranger that's true or a power ranger but what we

we prevailed. And then we get up on the dunes and we didn't know there were going to be so many ATVs. Oh, my God. Just barely. Luckily, our photographer was really tall, so it was like having a flag up there. Because someone said, you need a flag up here. Someone's going to run you over. Yeah, otherwise they would literally go over the hill and crash on you.

Oh, my God. It was crazy. It was so funny. literally go over the hill and crash on you. Oh, my God. I was paranoid. It was crazy. It was so funny. You dropped the ring right before in the sand. Oh, my. I mean, so we're walking up. I mean, we're trekking up.

I was dying. You didn't even want to go up. You're like, let's just take the picture here. Oh, my God, no. I'm like, no, we have to. We're going up and it was, I'm dressed as what, Jafar? Jafar, yeah. So I don't have pockets.

I just have a belt. So the ring was stuck between my belt and the rope and we're going up and it's like a track. And suddenly I feel like it's not there. And luckily I look back and I see it like half buried in the ground. You see it in the video. Like you kind of go back and find it.

And you're looking back and I'm like, I grabbed it quickly before you saw it. I had no idea. And yeah, we made it. That was no idea. And yeah. That was. We made it. That was the best. It was really the best day of my life. Obviously, pre-Malibu and being born and.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Just between us, like our. And what's a memory you dream of creating together? With so many. I mean, I can't wait to see Elvis, see us with two kids running around by our lake house. I see us all on a boat. Yeah, with the kids. I was like, this was with the kids on the boat.

Yeah. But I think I keep visualizing. I see it like your TV show. We're all on set. Oh, I see that too. We're kind of in the green room. It has a playroom attached to my dressing room. You're going on stage, you know, we're, depends how old Malibu is, you know, either she's

with me with a headset and. I see you doing the set design, but not having to be hands-on. Someone else is running the lights and the sound. Yeah, no, like I'd be like an art director, you know, like part of the creative side of things. But during the actual show, you can just hang with the kids. But more than anything, just be the buffer between you and everyone because otherwise... Which you always are.

I see that too. That's a good dream. That's a fun one too. I like that one. I see that. I see us traveling all over to all the Disney's in Hong Kong and Japan and Paris and Florida. That's how I went over the lottery. I just want to do like a luxury trip to all those places with the kids and cosplaying

each way, you know, having to do the dress up. I think it's going to be so fun. I look forward to that. But you really like our boats, our summer boats. I want to say boats, like this very, like it's not, they're not like yachts. People are going to think I want a boat. They're very simple boats. What would you describe, like electric boats or something?

There's a small lake near us. There's nice houses. They're not big. They're not crazy. Like this is our main house. They're little houses, but it just, you have a waterfront and it's so pretty. The lake. And the boats, it's like a golf cart on the water.

That's all it is. Yeah, it's just quiet. They're electric. It's amazing because they're electric. It's so quiet. Like people are on the water. It just, it's just picturesque, you know? Yeah. It's like quiet they're electric. It's so quiet. Like people are on the water. It's just picturesque, you know? Yeah.

It's like quiet and nice. You're on the water. Calm. There's restaurants. You go get your food. Get on the little boat, golf cart. Malibu can see all the ducks and the birds. And go back home, yeah.

And I want to name the boat. I want to name it after you, I think, because I feel like that's like the one gift I could give you. You know what I mean? We save this money together because I the one gift I could give you. You know what I mean? We save this money together because I always think like I should give you gifts and things. We need a boat. We need like a Moses boat. Like we don't know like a good name because they always have like puns kind of like, like lake mind. And we're like, that's not really a pun.

But there's just like, you know, there's like one call like lake minded, but there's usually something else. Like there's one there I see recently. It's called friendship. Yeah. So like that. Yeah. Like that. So think of like a good Moses pun for like like a boat we'll see we'll see maybe it just be the icon like water droplets

the water droplet maybe it will be faces of water water king water snake the water the water snake that comes full circle that will be that for For us, that will be. That will be really good. Actually, that's a good one. We just came up with it now. But mostly I'm just excited to like also just grow old with you. I always think about that when we're like, I always say when you're like 88, I'm going to be a young 77. But I just think we're going to be, we go to Masters a lot in Malibu and I always see older couples there at like 5 o'clock with us. And I'm like, that's going to be us. You know, we're going to, I'll be there. You'll get your branz us and I'm like, that's going to be us. I'll be there.

You'll get your branzino. I'm going to have my filet and lobster tail. I'll split the lobster tail for you. It's going to be cute. And then that will be our life. It will be like, oh, wow, we did it. I don't know. I'm really excited.

But we're creating memories now. We have holidays together. All our family comes to us and it's the stability. Yeah, we are. I mean, I think that's the stability and yeah we are i mean i think that's the main like dream that we achieve that we are the home that hosts the family and everyone comes over and we cook for everyone oh and you're so great and growing up like because i grew up with you know the smell of food cooking and so like our kids grow up like that too and and you do it for the

whole family when your mom comes over my dad like my brother everyone you just do it for everyone even if they already ate we're like we're gonna make bolognese and everyone has a little bowl And you do it for the whole family. When your mom comes over, my dad, my brother, everyone, you just do it for everyone. Even if they already ate, we're like, we're going to make bolognese. And everyone has a little bowl of bolognese. And your mom, she was so inspired. She started cooking too. She's like, okay, I'm going to come cook with you guys. And it really was the funnest that last day because we saw your mom a lot this last trip.

And we cooked for her and stuff like that. But that last day when she started cooking too, we all cooked in the kitchen together. And it was just such a special time. And it was just like such a special time. And she was just, everyone was just happy and great. My dad was here and I don't know. I was just like, that's like what I've always dreamed of. So I like love those memories and I love all of it. Moses, I feel like we could do so many more parts because you're so, you are so interesting

and you're so talented and there's so much life before me that I feel like go into more depth and talk about. But I absolutely love you and I hope that people got to see more of you. Hopefully, you guys got the questions you want answered. I feel like a lot of it was about us. I wanted it to be more about you, but I love – I think your philosophies are brilliant. I think you're so smart. I did so many spiritual readings and just learning so much about spirituality.

And it's like everything I learned, I remember I'd be so excited. I'd come to you and I'd be like, look at this. Look at this chapter, whatever. And it's literally everything that you've preached about or you've lectured about. And I just had to find it in a different way. But in reality, it's like it came back to everything you knew and you're just so knowledgeable. And I think the way you present information is so beautiful. And I love that we connect over our spirituality.

We found each other again in this life. Yeah. Our bodies of water. I always think Moses has attracted me because I have a lot of water in this body. I have more water than the average person. And I'm sure like, look at all this water. Look at all that water in there. No, you're so smart, so creative and so much fun to be with.

And it's never a dull place. It's always interesting. I think, I mean, being creative, that's the goal is to be in an environment that is always creative. And we always do stuff. We always make things. I mean, this one happened too, you know, but go back to our TED Talks, Trish Talks. Oh yeah, Trisha. We'll be out there in 70. We'll still make those videos.

Yeah, for sure. And now we have little ones that are going to be creative and inspire us and keep us excited. I just love spending every minute with you and always like, that's all I want. That's the meaning of life. That is the meaning of life. There you go. I feel like that's the takeaway of all this.

Moses Hackman explains the meaning of life. It's Trisha Payless. I'll take it. I love you. Thank you for being my guest this Valentine's Day. Best Valentine's Day ever, honestly. It's been fun. Thank you for the infinite necklace.

Yeah, can't wait to see where it is. Yeah, here's to infinite love, infinite amount of good health, wealth, life, longevity, happiness, success, and our internet family following us along the way. Thank you. Thank you, guys. All right. Check out Moses on the Just Trish podcast, facesofwater.com. He has books out there. I think it's on Blurb or something like that. Check it out.

And Water Drop, let's go find his channels. He has so many from 2006. There's so many old videos to go find him on. Channel Water is probably the best. Or Water Snake. It's a great poem.

We didn't even get into that, but if you want to check that out, that's my favorite. Next time, part two. All right, I'll see you guys next time. Happy Valentine's Day.