Keep it Positive, Sweetie - From Seat Filler to Stellar Award Winner w/ Vashawn Mitchell

Episode Date: September 7, 2025

This weeks guest went from seat-filler at the Stellar Awards to six-time Stellar Award winner, songwriter and worship leader VaShawn Mitchell has truly lived the testimony behind his music. In this soul-stirring conversation with the creator of “Nobody Greater” we unpack the journey, the lessons, and the faith that keeps him grounded.

Calling all my Sweeties to the forefront. I'm your host, Chris Renee Hazel, and this is the Keep It Posit Sweeties show. Welcome back, Sweeties. This season, we are talking about impact, not the number of likes or the number of followers, but that deep down legacy level of impact that leads with pure intention. The intention that changes lives, that shifts rooms, and plants seeds, and breaks generational curses. Because it's one thing to be seen, but it's another thing to make an impact and leave a lasting legacy.

Today's guest is someone whose voice has literally shifted atmospheres and lifted spirits around the world. He is a worship leader, a songwriter, a visionary, and the man behind some of the most powerful anthems in gospel music. For nobody greater to turn it around for me, but Sean Mitchell doesn't just sing, he ministers. And whether you've heard him in the pews or on your playlist or during a moment when you needed to be reminded of who you are, you felt is in fact. His family, please give a warm welcome

to Vashan Mitchell. What's going on, Fashon? Hey, glad to be here. Happy to have you. When the team said that we were going to have you on, I was so excited. I was so excited to be on and talk to you. We've never met since our first time,

so we get to know each other tonight. Absolutely. Yes. So tell me a little about you. You started the church. You are from Chicago. Born and raised. Born and raised in Chicago.

Left the South Side for Sunny, L.A. Tell me that journey and how you got there. So, you know, growing up in Chicago, I was always around gospel music, basically, you know, from Albertine Walker to Thomas Wilfield and all the greats, you know, who have been through there. I became attracted to gospel music at an early age. It's something I wanted to do, but I didn't know if I was good enough, to be honest. Really? Yeah, so.

Why? When I was younger, so many others did it better than me, but I could say. I didn't know my lane, so I was trying to be everybody else. and didn't know who I was. So it took me a while studying the industry and studying how to write and write a song and how to deliver a song. I don't run like some of the people.

I don't do all these things. So I had to find my lane. And it took me a while to find my lane. But once I found it, you know, I began to not only hear from God, but like master my own lane. Yeah. You know, and not compare myself to nobody else.

So it took me a while, but I finally got there. Well, you got there. You definitely got there. It's funny you said that because you sound like me when I talk to my manager, Wes, he's always pushing me to do music. We got to get in the studio. I got in the studio.

And I have this, I guess it would be an insecurity when it comes to scene because I don't run like everybody does and I want to, but my voice just doesn't do it. And I'm like, why can I do that? So, like, even taking voice lessons and trying to find ways to do it in my own way, but now finding my own lane, like you said.

Yeah, that's the best thing. I've never heard anybody else say that. I felt the same way. Yep. Yeah. It was the best thing to do. When I found my own lane, I can only compare myself to me. And that became the easiest path in this music industry.

Absolutely. So you became a minister at the age of 20. Yeah. Well, minister of music. At the age of 20. I always try to do that. Make people miss it. Yeah.

Minister of music at the age of 20. What was it like taking that on at such a young age? Because that's still pretty young. Yeah, I wasn't ready. I actually wrote a little book, I said I wasn't ready. That's what it's called. I was about 19 and going on 20, and the minister of music had been fired. And me and the pastor was on the escalator going to somewhere.

He said, can you talk to the media department? I said, yeah. I didn't know what I was doing. I never done it before. All I know is I could teach a song and I can write a song. So basically, that was the beginning of me learning. So I quickly became the son and student to many mentors. Yeah.

Because at 20, I did not know what I was doing. and I did not want to touch what was God's incorrectly. So, you know, I was able to get up under some great mentors at the time. And I believe if it wasn't for them, I probably would have, would not have made it. Because it was a big task to take. You know, the church was about 5,000 strong, three locations, four choirs, three praise teams. What? Yeah.

I'm thinking it's like a church like I grew up in with like maybe like a hundred members. And like, Mr. Music was like a pretty easy job. But no, this was, that's a big undertaking at 20 years old. Wow. So what were some of the roadblocks and things that you had to learn along the way when you got into that role? One of them and I'm probably getting trouble with saying is that

the pastor was a musician and he's a singer. So basically we often class because I wanted to do the new school. Then he had to learn the old school. That was one of the biggest roadblocks that I believe I overcame once I got to

know him and he got to know me as well and we kind of walked together for 10 years. you know, together, but also taking on as a minister music of a church who had a legacy of music already. So I felt like I was stepping in some big shoes that were hard to feel. So it was time, like I said before, to kind of create my own lane. So 10 years later, when I left, those who came behind me had to step in my shoes. Yeah. And those are big shoes that feel for them. Yeah, at that time, at that time. Absolutely. Yeah, I can imagine that being a big task. You talked about mentors that helped you make it. Who are some of the people that you looked up to and they helped guide you through that

season? Definitely Byron Cage. At the time, Byron Cage was the minister of music of New Birth, Atlanta. Yeah. He's also our minister of music at Full Gospel as well at the same time. You went to full gospel? Yeah. I was under full gospel. So I learned from him and then Kathy Taylor Brown or Kathy Taylor out of Houston, Texas at the time. She was a great person to learn up under as well. And they took me under their wing and actually, Byron is the reason why. I was the reason I actually ended up leaving Chicago years later because he recommended me for a position somewhere else. Wow.

And that was the beginning of my career and the beginning of Nobody Greater once I took that step to say yes. Yeah. Well, let's talk about Nobody Greater. Yeah. When you did that song, did you have any idea of how big it was going to be? We played it before we started rolling, and everybody here knows the song.

Did you imagine that it would be that big and take you to all the places it's taking you? I had no clue. Yeah. Basically, I was recording what I heard God say, you know? and the things that I want to be too deep, but at the time, somebody else was supposed to record the song

because I know it was supposed to be for me. And two... Somebody else was supposed to record it, but you knew it was for you. Yeah, somebody was supposed to record the song. And I asked for it, and the writer was like, well, I'll write something else for you.

I was like, okay, cool. So, okay, so... But two weeks before the recording, they got a call that the other label wanted all they published and all this or that. And if you're from Atlanta, you know Uncle Marie's co-peper.

Uncle Maurice said, give me to my Sean. He wanted to record it anyway. And basically, Dariuspoke, that's when he gave us the version of Nobody Greater, that we recorded, two weeks before the recording, we recorded it that night. I didn't know it would do what it, it did,

but it felt different that night as we released the sound. Yeah. You know, and I tell people all around the world that I'm glad God chose me to carry a sound that's bigger than me. Because there's a sound that people sing all over the world, different languages, different cultures, it changed atmospheres. I could never do that.

Right. He just chose me to carry it to the world. Yeah, and I love that you know that. Because sometimes I feel like, especially in this Christian culture, we forget that it's not about us, you know? And I love that you haven't lost sight of it. Because I can imagine just even the exposure of traveling the world and hear it in different languages, you can sometimes forget. It's easy to get caught up in like, oh, my God, I did this. I did this.

But understanding, no, I'm just the vessel and this is God. That's amazing. I would love to, like, I can imagine, like, the energy and the spirit in that room that night. It was something I would always remember. And I had recorded many times before that, right? Yeah. But this one night, this one song changed it. My career, changed my life, and changed my reach.

Yes. Yeah. In seven minutes, basically. That night, like, it shifted the atmosphere, but it also answered the prayer that I've been praying for a long time. A lot of people don't know that. Right before I recorded nobody greater, a year before that, I was a seat filler at Stella Awards. And a seat filler is where you're sitting in somebody's seat until they're coming. So, but that year, Rich and Smallwood sang on the second half of the show,

and he never came back out. So I sat in his seat the whole night. So I was giving a glimpse of what will happen for me a year and a half later. Want to do it? I had my own seat, my own little face on that. Yep. Did you take a picture? I did.

Yes, take that moment. And just to go from a seat filler to a six-time winner in two years, God was proving himself, you know, that what I said. and what I showed you will come to pass but when you're ready for it. Yes, yeah. When I wanted, I wasn't ready. Isn't that it?

I would have took God out to the wrong places. I know it. When I wanted it, I wasn't ready. But I'm glad he did it for me when I was ready. Yeah. Take me to that journey and what that was like from going from seat filler to six-time winter after that. What are the, like, what did it feel like?

Did you ever have like imposter syndrome or like, wait, is this really happening right now? Like, I was just filling in a seat two years ago. What was that time like and that transformation like for you? You know what? It was surreal. It was sitting in the show because knowing where I come from and understanding that I served my way up. I didn't sing my way up.

So basically. Don't miss that. Yeah. Don't miss that. Yeah. I serve my pastor. I served my fellowship. I serve my people.

And God honored that. It was still surreal to see that not that we do this for a wars, right? But to see that the people I looked up to, the people who I looked up to, the people who I followed and Elanda Adams and Donna McClurkin and Phoebe and C.C. Wine and then they're all saying for Sean Mitchell, it was really crazy. And then for my Art of the Year Award was given by Cic Wines. So you know I almost lost it. Almost lost it. But it was surreal. They would have to drag me up to the stage. God been like, what? Oh, my God. That's a video clip I look at all the time. It's just me doing like this. But yeah, it was surreal, but it was definitely

great that those and at that time I wouldn't even consider my peers people would say that at my peers but at that time I consider those who paved away those who I've walked behind who I've walked after who said you're next yeah who you studied like you said you study the great like

those are the greats you know you name Yolanda and Donnie and Cece I was Alabaster Box is like one of my favorite songs of hers and my mom used to play it all the time growing up and it wasn't until probably maybe two or three years ago I played it again or it came up on a playlist

and I was in my bathroom and I just started bawling because now that I've lived I understand you weren't there the night he found me I don't turn the show in something else My God you know and it's funny

because I just live long enough and you'll understand the goodness of God and so to have those greats be the ones calling your name and give you that award I know that was a beautiful moment yeah speaking of award shows we just had the BET Awards

I was there last week and there's a big uproar in the Christian community of don't take that deep breath about glow really not from Tennessee so I love me some glow get them glow I love her but she won her and Kirk won that the Gospel Song of the Year award

and even she was like what I think everybody was a little confused but so much of the Christian gospel music community has spoken out about it. What are your thoughts on that and how I do like the way that we've bridged the gap between secular and gospel music because what it does is I think we all pretty much are rooted from the church and when people go secular route or go the gospel route and then they come together

it reminds the secular of you know what I'm saying with the foundation you know so it's a way to bridge that gap but how do you feel about I think we should continue to bridge the gap I don't blame Glorilla, not one bit. Gloria, hallelujah. Not one bit. I believe that, you know, because of the criteria, she was due to win.

Because, you know, how she ended up on the ballot and things that sort. Yeah. I will say something else that others won't say is that I think as a protector of gospel genre in the name of Dr. Bobby Jones, we have to kind of create some type of family atmosphere. that positions what is gospel and then what is urban gospel or contemporary gospel so we can have those keep the bridge in the gap but also don't delete gospel that's the thing that's all yeah keep me sacred this is probably one of the first times i want to say i think yelanda received it kirk don't know it's not like it happened all the time but i don't want to be the beginning of us deleting um the the gospel artist from it that's all that's all i feel that yeah that's so true and I love all types of music.

As I continue to grow up my faith, I do try to pay attention to what I'm listening to because it can stir up things in me that I may be trying to get rid of. So I try to be mindful of the music that I take in, but I support all creatives, you know, and I champion them. So I get it, but I got so many phone calls the next day

from my peers in the gospel. I know you did. I'm careful to what I say. Right. That breath you took was so funny. He was like, here we go. We just been talking about this like all week. And to me, it's really, to me, it's really eye-opener for us that if we're going to have

gatekeepers of gospel, we're going to have those who want to preserve gospel music, then now is the right time to have a conversation to say, you know, what is gospel, what is contemporary gospel, what is hip-hop gospel? Because realistically, let's be honest, this is BT's hip-hop show. Yes. Let's be very clear. At the end of the day, can we have a conversation? about how do we maintain the sanctity of this music and these artists,

but also embraced where we're going with the artist as well. Yeah, no, that's so true. You have sold out shows, traveled the world. I want to know one moment that just sticks, maybe a few moments if you want to share, that stick out to you that were like, oh, my goodness, as you travel the world and you look around these venues and you're like, this is a packed house.

What are some of those moments that you can share That you hold close to you I would never forget I was in New Mexico Beautiful city Beautiful for me But we were at the stadium When it said stadium

Yeah it's at the stadium I was like oh yeah I'm just going to stadium I was just my first time Ever in New Mexico First time I get to sound check And I see all these seats

You know And you know I'm thinking Some people might show up They may not show up We roll up that night It was me and CCY And literally 200,000 people

My goodness what singing with me nobody greater before I sing in another language right they understood the spirit behind the songs

and that's probably the most memorable more I've been to many other places but that time to just see people who don't actually all speak English

but understand the spirit it was absolutely amazing and I'll forget it I love that yeah the spirit is universal yeah like everybody yeah no matter what language

and that's why he says until everyone knows about and knows about me, that's when I'll come back. Because, like, it is something that everybody can understand no matter where you come from, what language you speak. I love that. What is something about you that people would be surprised if you told them?

I don't know what's social media now. You know what? People don't really realize that I'm really introvert-ish. Me too. I'm the biggest introvert extrovert you'll ever meet. So after everything is over and I'm done, whatever, I enjoy going on my solo moments or in my car by myself

or just cutting the TV off and just having me moments and me time because it takes a lot people say because I'm a Scorpio I don't really get in the signs like that but it takes a lot to just just get me back

so that I can do this so that I can do this in a pure way so it takes a lot so I think watching me on social media watching me out there you wouldn't believe that unless I said it but I think as creators

that is our outlet that's our way to like get it get all the energy out, but, like, inside our homes and our safe spaces is complete, like, I'm quiet, like, I need that time. Yeah, like, I love hiking and stuff because it's like my me time. Yes. And the atmosphere, you know, the environment, all that. There's me and the environment is, it's refueling for me.

It is. Nature. Yeah, no, for sure. That's so good. So you have a new song out, Make-A-Way. You are bridging the gap. You're blending hip-hop, R&B, gospel, everything. into this album. Tell me what made you want to try to kind of like tap into

those different genres. So I've been in L.A. for like the last five, six years now. And some my friends, a lot of people don't know, were with Sunday Service. So a lot of them are from Chicago, from Houston, from where else. But we were friends forever. So we got together and I specifically said, you know,

I know who I am, but I know where gossip music is going. So I want to create a sound that still stays true to who I am. but can go where it's going. You know, I want to do my purpose. So we got together in the room and basically I took me out of the room and was able to listen to the different writers in the room with me and different producers.

And we came with this concept. And anyone who really knows me know that most of my songs come from my grandmother. So my grandmother passed a few years ago, but she's always say, you know, he's a waymaker. And so we got in the room and was like, he's going to make a way, make her way, maker. And that's how it all started. And then the verses came from there and all that. And I believe that even though it has these different tones of R&B, tones of hip-hop, tones of this, the message still remains, Jesus.

And that's what it was all about for me. I love that. I love that. How do you feel that even like going in between different genres, how do you feel like that's impacting the Christian community and the gospel genre? I think it's great. It is taking, and you know what I said it's like taking Jesus to places that we can't really always take them. in our box of church.

And I'm going to just say that. And I looked at some other shows, right? Even the show, even the BAT show. Most artists have a choir behind them or something they're doing. Everyone is embracing this gospel sound beyond the four walls of the church. And we should be excited because it's taking gospel to mainstream. Right. And it's reminding people that everyone needs inspiration.

That's what gospel music is. Yeah, absolutely. Everyone needs inspiration. And I'm excited. And they're looking for it. They're looking for it. They're looking for it. They're looking for hope.

They're looking for that source of inspiration. That's so true. That is so true. You have collabed with the greats of Donnie McClarkin. Jekaelin Carr actually did a movie with her. She's so freaking talented. Love her. How do you know when you hear a song, do you hear the voice,

like, that's Jekaelin. I need to call her. Or this is Donnie. How do you know like this is the person for this song and it's right? So I love to hear this, right? So I started out of a songwriter. I didn't really think I could sing all that way back in the day. I could write a song for other people.

I can hear that voice or hear them say something and I'm writing a song for him. So, you know, I did a song with Israel before. I've done a song with, you know, just Fantasia and her mom and all this over the years because I heard them before I heard them, basically. And just luckily, and I thank God for this favor is that when I called them, everyone always said yes. Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. But being a songwriter who hears, I think it's been my superpower, you know, beyond singing anything else. And I always say I'm a songwriter first. Okay. I love that. I love that. with all your success how has that shifted the way that you create music from going from

that first album to now how has it shifted so i've been doing music not in the first album i'll go back to my church i've been doing music for over about 30 years now right um and uh i've written some of the some of the greatest church songs and other songs so now where i'm now is that i want to embrace sounds and present new writers yeah so in the music i'm working on now like i didn't write 100 i wrote you know 50 percent and then i'm giving other people another Yeah, and none of giving them a chance, but it's also stretching me. You know, so we're helping each other out. So I'm actually recording an EP right now, and I probably wrote 50% of it.

One of the writers, this is his first time getting a placement. Wow. And I'm excited because I've always been like that bridge for other artists in some type of way, and I can't stop it. Like, I'm always going to have been that bridge to kind of help other artists in some way. Right. You have a foundation, the Gospel Heritage Foundation. Is that a big part of the reason? and why 50% of the songs were written by other people.

I love that. What made you decide to create that foundation? So I actually took on the foundation from someone else. Okay. Dr. Theresa Harrison started over 25 years ago. Oh, wow. And it's a place that I used to go sit and learn about the industry, right? A lot of people, you know, wanted to go think of musicals.

But I was in the classes about publishing, you know, class about songwriting, how to present your song to the right artist. So I believe that where we're going now and the new, the new industry as it continues to change there has to still be an educational platform not only industry but ministry leaders as well so that's that's my heart for uh those who are in the industry in the ministry i wanted to take over gospel heritage so i can help bridge that gap the next generation and um i went back to school maybe maybe seven years ago to get my degree of music business and entertainment business so that i'm not just having a

conversation you know i have the knowledge to back it up and that that that I don't know I can call my professors, because the energy is changing so fast, and we used to just sing a song in church, it becomes famous, then we go out there, right? Now it's that you've got to understand strings. You have to understand how streams go to dollars. You have to understand. It's a lot more to it that, you know, if we don't share it with those artists coming up, they're going to stay lost in the stream of streams.

Yep, exactly. I love that information is key, and I don't believe in gate heaving. And one of the themes of this season is impact. That's the main theme. It's just how can we, after every episode, what impacts are really? even on our audience. When you think about your career in the state that you are now, what is the impact that you're trying to make in the world?

You know what? I believe that many may not remember my name, right? But the songs that I've produced, written, and song will live forever. Absolutely. And that's more important than my name being remembered. Yeah, yeah. That 20 years from now, somebody's pulling up nobody greater, or my work is surreal, or trouble on last always,

and they've still been inspired and encouraged. because that's what this journey should be all about. Absolutely. That we leave a sound that has long life. Absolutely. You're doing that. You're doing that. If somebody doesn't know, you play that song, like, oh, I know that song.

Yeah. Like, who is it? Like, your music definitely, everybody knows it. They know, and they know your day too. So don't think that. It's so good. Gospel music is not just an art. It's a ministry.

I feel like, even speaking about just the state of music now, I feel like it's losing that it's becoming more of the art and people forgetting about the ministry. What is something that you do to make sure that every time you're writing or singing it, because sometimes you've got different people in the room that maybe trying to take it one way and you're like, no, we've got to make sure

we're still keeping the gospel in it. How do you do that and balance that in the studio? You know, actually it starts before the studio. You know, it's very important that we steal or I still have a meditation time, my prayer time, that I can not allow everything in all the time because sometimes we would try to create something off of something else

without it being in a spiritual place, right? Right, absolutely. And I don't ever want to do that. So it starts in our prayer time and meditation time and just being focused on and sure of who I am. You know, I did this new song, right, but it's still true to who I am. You're not going to see me rapping because I know I can't rap.

You know what I'll lead it for others, but I still want to stay true to who I am and not neglect the call of what I was given. Yeah. Yeah, you spoke about your grandmother being the source of your inspiration behind your songs. You lost your grandmother. How did you channel that grief in creating chapter X?

Wow. Well, therapy first. Well, therapy. Yeah, I needed it. I know, and as much as we love God, right? When those who we love are taken from us, we still question them. And as spiritual as I am

And as much churches I've had I still question God, why now? Right, yeah And my grandmother was like, my mother was a teenager when she had me So I used to go to work with my grandmother I was on a hip while she was working And things that sort

So that's us And God didn't let me get there In time before she transitioned And I was upset with him for a while So I went to therapy And But one thing, that the therapist brought back to my remembrance

is that the doctor said for Sean her heart just stopped she didn't feel no pain she didn't learn on no machines and the thing that her and I had a discussion she said I don't want to be on no machines I won't be in nobody

so everything that she wanted is just her heart just stopped no pain and I believe that channeling all of that channeling from grief to to overcoming it knowing that the feelings will always be there, but you just get stronger daily. So chapter X was about getting stronger

daily. That's why the whole song, you will see the goodness in the land of the living, right? That don't mean it's going to be today. Right. But you're going to see it as long as you live. So that's it. Yeah, that's so good. I love that. I love that you went to therapy. I love that as a Christian,

you were allowed to feel your emotions, you know, because sometimes we say you're not supposed to question God, you know, but you allowed yourself to feel what you were feeling in that moment, and then you went to therapy as a black man in this society where you guys had the weight of the world on your shoulders

were there moments where you were carrying it or did some might say Vishan you need to go talk to somebody or did you just do that yourself so both things. I was carrying it it was COVID going on. It was so many things at the same time. We wasn't traveling as much so I was in my head we were doing virtual searches from the house

so it was like all that was me, my house and so yeah it was all me for a while I actually was watching somebody in ministry online that talked about how they had an in-house grief therapist right? And they started talking about what they do and things that sort of side of.

You know, that was actually my inspiration to oh, this is what you need. I found myself in this bubble and I felt like there was no way out. Right. So I had to. So it was both the end. I had to help myself get out.

And I believe that even to this day, therapy was probably the best. Because, you know, you know, unlock some other stuff. to, but it started off with grief, then it went to life. So, but I do believe that it is majorly important for African-American males who have come up, especially in urban city like Chicago, like me. Yes.

You know, my father was not around. You know, my mom was a teenager. And then when I did meet my father, he was, I was 35, and he was about to pass from cancer. And I'm like, why, you want to meet me, now? You know what I'm saying? You know, people know me on TV, you know? So I went through all that and didn't know that I still was processing that. Yes.

that was underneath the grief. Right. That's a lot. Yeah, it was a lot. It was a lot. So I sit here a whole person because of therapy, and I believe that it only gets even better as long as we continue to pour into ourselves to fill ourselves up again, especially those who are in ministry who are always pouring out, right?

God gives you something to pour out. That's why he said, if you lift him up, he'll do the drawing. Yes. But that means that we've got to be filled up as well. Absolutely. What do you do to fill your cup? Oh, my God. Definitely spend time with God.

right uh vacation come on now vacation yeah that's yeah you know i said this way is that you got come apart before you come apart right um with all that we do i think i'll talk about earlier you know we have church now but we have you know along once forever there's three services five locations you know you sing in five times you know just come apart before you come apart um and also always find something for you yeah daily daily that's good that's hard that could be like not just because come to gym. Some people go golfing. Some people play basketball. Whatever that is, it is a

lifetime gift to yourself. Because we can work every day for everybody else. Answer everybody calls. Ask everybody's text. Get everybody on Instagram. But what are you doing for you every day? Keeps you on the right path. Yeah, that's so good. What is something? I know for me,

like you said, when you go to therapy, it starts with the thing that you're feeling initially, but then the onion layers just keep peeling back. You're like, whoa, I didn't know that was What's something that maybe you can share with us that you learned about yourself during that time that you may have suppressed so far back that you're like, wait, I didn't even realize this was still impacting me today as an adult. Yeah, I shared it before, and I don't mind sharing it again, is that I was living in fake forgiveness. Oh, right? My God.

My biological father who, you know, had me, he lived two blocks away. Never spoke to me all my life. I rode past his house several years. I never knew it, right? And when I met him, because I'm such a non-stallant person, you know, he had daughters and all that. I said, he was trying to explain to me why he didn't know. I said, I said, I actually stopped him. I said, I don't want to know that.

I said, because I'm glad I didn't have a 16-year-old father anyway. So I was being so strong, I was actually covering my weakness. So from that day forth, he lived for about seven more years, and I thought I forgave him. But the more I got to know him, the more that forgiveness was fake. Yeah. So I had to actually deal with that. And how do you heal from what you thought you covered? Yeah, mm-hmm, yes.

I know, like, crazy enough, I know exactly what you mean. That's the real thing. I never looked at it like that. But that's real, faking forgiveness. Because we were like, I'm fine, I'm good, like, I'm good, you know, and you really not. Really not. Really not.

Oh, my goodness. In the moments that you maybe weren't sure about, like, what's next, you know, as artists, we're entrepreneurs, and it can be up and down. there's ebbs and flows, what is a scripture or a quote or affirmation that just kind of brought you back to peace and, like, it's going to be okay. It's funny, because it's the first scripture I ever learned. I was in the East of Play when I was the kid, and my scripture was, I can do all things through Christ that strength of it.

I think we all, yeah. That was my first scripture. But I find myself going back to that scripture at all times because it does get hard. Entrepreneur, artists, I want to stay true to my ministry, but I own masters, I own this or that. I got to do these deals. and it gets a little muggy sometimes but we have to always stay true to where our strength comes from

and that's what it's really about I remember the scripture but it's like I have to know where my strength comes from so when I'm sitting in a meeting if it's a business meeting I'm stronger than y'all because I know where it comes from yeah if I'm writing song

I'm bringing my strength with me so that's all things I love that I love that you play a huge role behind the scenes for a lot of artists mentoring Tasha Cobbs Leonard who's actually been on our show Anthony Brown what is it like being

a mentor and pouring into other artists? You know what? I think I inherited that. Tasha Kov's Leonard and Anthony Brown were friends of mine. And I saw something in them that the world just needed, you know. It's not that they're doing nothing different they've done before. They just needed the push. So in producing Tasha Kaj's project, you know, we became even closer.

I was executive producer with Anthony Brown. We became maybe closer. But it's mainly because it was great to mentor them and still be the person they call that mentor, but it was greater to see that I will have something to do with the next generation of gospel, too. You know what I'm saying?

You know, a lot of us try to be in it for ourselves. But I think if we're not so selfish, we're able to pour into where gospel is going, it would take nothing away from where we are. And that's what anything. That's what anything. I think a lot of times we do,

we start, it's like, me, me, me, me. But helping other people takes nothing away from what you have going on. That is so true. It's room for everybody. Speaking of the next, generation. If there's any advice that you could possibly give someone who has gifts that they really haven't tapped into or they're unsure how to go about it, what advice would you give

someone? You know what? I would say number one, know who you are in God, you know, and then number two, find out your assignment on the earth, right? Because as you walk out your assignment on the earth, you define success, it don't define you. So that's, I will start there because we have so many people even myself that try to be everybody else you know but if the day that i became very secure in who god called me to be and what i'm supposed to be doing here yes i was able to even when i don't want to work when i do when i when i when i go to the church there's 10 people when it's 100 people when it's 1,000 i know that i am fulfilling what i'm called to this earth to do yes yeah and that can get muddy when when you're in a space like we are as celebrities and people who our livelihood thrives

off of people you know so like when you not with them numbers and that algorithm algorithm and you like algorithm it becomes like it can play with your mind but when you know your assignment on the earth it doesn't matter if it's one yeah yeah you know it won't always be one but but i think yeah i think god wants to know how would you honor the one how would you handle the one before i can trust you with thousands yes how would you handle the one you know and we don't think about that we all want the main stage but a lot of lot of, a lot of, um, uh, how I got here was a lot of non-mainstaged moments. Same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, so I, I appreciate the main stage even more.

Yes. I don't have to close out. I don't know. I know. You know, whenever I put me up first, third, whatever is that I appreciate the main stage because I've had some non-mainstaged moments for a long time. Yeah. You said something that reminded me of a red carpet. I was, I think it was B's hip, hip hop awards. And I was going in my manager at the time was pulling me. She's like, we got to go, we got to go. And this young girl, she was a report, she was like, Crystal, Krista, can I please interview? Can I please interview?

And she was like, we got to get down here. It was the thing was like wallow or, like, a big, like, activation we had to get to. And she was pulling me away. And, like, I stopped my manager, like, hold on. I was like, let me go. I said, I need to tell I'm coming back to her. And I said, because I remember what it was like when nobody didn't want to talk to me. When my public sister would go up and say, hey, I have Chris Renee Hazelette from Tyler Perry's sisters.

And they were like, well, we're waiting on a bigger, it was a bigger name. I remember what that felt like and it didn't feel good it did not feel good so I was like I'm going to go do this interview because I have a time slot but I'm going to come back and talk to you and the young lady ended up like she wanted to be an actor and end up paying for her acting school

like it was somebody that God pulled me back because it was something that I needed to do the assignment on the earth yeah so it was like one of those things where you have to remember what it was like not to be on the main stage remember what it was like when people didn't want to talk to you and make sure you honor those people that do

even if it is what you think is a no name or a low outlet we're like is anybody ever going to see this they need that yeah that's so good you never know why they're calling you back there that's what you said that was so great I had no idea

I had no idea and I'm really big on like for him back you know that's one thing I did learn from Tyler is that you always when you're up you make sure you're pulling people up with you like we had somebody on the other day and he's like if your business starts and ends with you it's not big enough like what are you doing

because you're not bringing nobody else up with you you know um but the responsibility to also is to pull them up even if they don't reciprocate it oh yeah that's not on you that's not on you i was talking about that though they're like that's not on you yeah they're saying oh i don't want to help nobody else no more than that i said you're going to cut your blessings yep and that's exactly what happened yes if god called you to pull them up you put them up they may not ever do it back no seriously that's so true um and i was guilty of that too get out my business i was guilty of like hearting my heart when i didn't feel like the energy was being reciprocated you didn't have to do what i did for you back but it was just like

you you just wanted to feel appreciated you know and sometimes you're not going to get that sometimes they're not going to help you back in return you know when they're in the position too and you have to be okay with it you had that so true get off my street as i was saying it trying to get out of my business. You're right. That's right. Speaking of pouring into other people, why is it so important to pour back? You talk about we live in your industry is about porn, point, point, porn.

But why do you feel like it's so important to pour back into the next generation? Well, in anything that we do, if we don't point the next generation, then we're not equipping them. Yeah. You know, like this could be, you know, so we're just throwing them out there. Right. That's what I say. And that's why, like, and I have to admit this, like, stuff. social media made people stars and, you know,

quickness and things that sort, but they didn't go through or experience some of the things that we could have shared. Yeah. And so by time they get to the roadblocks and all that, we should always feel guilty that we could have shared, you know, or at least

help with the experience of next generation. I think a lot of that is because most of us have become, like I said, too selfish thinking that someone's going to surpass them or do that. They're supposed to pass. The Bible says greater works. sure they do you know what I'm saying so basically if you did great they're gonna do greater greater and then the ones out of them gonna do greater greater greater yeah and it's okay

because it really it really the gospel is supposed to be mainstream today that wasn't 10 years ago right you know and if we understand the the the pouring of that takes us as a whole you know and not just gospel take any industry the pouring up it takes us as a whole to the next place we'll do it more right absolutely I love that when it comes to business and how you said you set in from the foundation you were learning about the business as you navigated this business what are some hard lessons that you've had to learn oh reach your own contracts okay how many attorneys you have have them show you what everything mean you know I've I signed something years ago that gave away all my

publicism what on accident yeah my attorney gave it to me went through everything and didn't see the fine print that it was publishing 100% Luckily, you know, I signed this short deal. So when I got to a few hundred thousand units, they wanted to give me the loan form. So I negotiated all my publishing back. I know that's right. And honesty by my master's and other stuff. But just understanding that that could have went a whole other way after all these years.

It's just, you know, part of the reason why I went back to school. Not that I want to be attorney, you know, an attorney attorney, but I want to understand what we're talking about. I want to have very educated conversations, not you telling me what it is. I want to understand what it is. Yeah. You know, so I just, I just educate yourself on the industry, you know, educate yourself on anything that you want to be a part of. That's such, I'm the same way, like, we have literally my contracts, we have the lawyer line by line. Okay, what does this mean?

Like, we're going through it. So I know there's no mistake about it. I know what I'm signing for. That's, that's wonderful. I was talking to the other day. He was like, yeah, I'm out of my deal. You just had like two options. I said, you know what the option mean.

Right. Not that I'm talking about me. I'm not talking about you. But I had explained here what the option meant. I mean, they can exercise their option. Yes. So he didn't know that. And not saying in the bad ways,

mean that we just should understand what we're signing, what we're getting into, and how to maneuver, you know, to the best of our nights. You know, we're going to have attorneys, but we should really know what we're signing. For sure, for sure. And a lot of people just like, oh, I'll just have somebody to read over

because attorney, everything costs, you know. But you'll pay the cost in the long run if you don't. So just pay them the money, please. That's so true. If you could collab with, anybody who is your dream collaboration. Ooh. And it could be more than one person.

It would be two, right? Okay. It would be to write to Timberland's tracks and have Brandy singing. Crazy. Crazy. Oh, my goodness. It's going to happen. I hope so.

It will definitely happen. Do you see yourself, or do you have your own record label? I do. Okay, I was going to ask you, do you see yourself starting your own, but you already have it. So I have, well, what we call it a label today. I have an imprint with a deal with another label for music services. So basically, I've been on my own for a while now. How long?

For since 2017? Okay, yeah. But I've always been, I'd like to share this, especially with artists watching. I've always been a revenue share artist since nobody greater, not a points artist. So basically, explain it. So most people who signed a deal back in. the day they were getting points on these records. So, like, and some of those

points on the producer, right? Well, from the time I signed a contract for the Nobody Greater Project, it was a percentage of the revenue, the net income. Yeah. So basically I've always signed those type of deals. So even when those deals are over, the new deals, it's still, like, 60, 40, 70, 30 of the net.

Right. Okay. That's smart because a lot of, yeah, that's something I haven't really learned and I do want to learn more about that as I get into music is the points. I remember back in the day, when I was doing music, all I heard was points, points, points. Like, you get this many points on the song, but I never really understood what that meant.

If we still had those point deals with streaming, we wouldn't. Oh, my goodness, streaming. Like, how has that, I know everybody says, like, artists don't really make the money that they used to make. You have to go work for it. You got to go do the live touring to really recoup and get the money for the most part. How has streaming impacted the gospel industry?

Yes and no. I'm going to say yes or no. because I'm a master owner streaming is it makes I would say it makes money in my sleep right

new songs definitely have to kind of get the traction on it and it only pays like you know so much per I mean thousands of strings or all that but if you're you are smart about it is that you have to have your music on every platform you have to make sure that it is encoded

it the right way and things that sort it can still make sense. It has impacted the gospel industry not as much as people are consuming more than ever but for your newer artists who are trying to get out whatever the space for them is not as

as open. It's there you know like put that piece out but now how do we find it when you get to it because you only got so many top teams and then because the industry is still I don't know if I'm going to become activist or not it's still putting Christian

and gospel in the same plate like when you got Apple music some of our stats are off a little bit yeah I know what you mean yeah so you can be number one in gospel on the Apple chart you're number 29 because you're in the midst of the Christian

and gospel chart so there's a reason for them doing it but our platform is a little bit more diluted than it was before I don't know exactly what you're talking about because I go I always go to like the Christian part on Apple music and then you'll have like a gospel workout playlist

and you have a Christian workout playlist and I'm like, oh, like it's two different things but then you look at the top songs and it's... One shot. Mm-hmm. Got it, I got it. All right, so we normally do like a this or that game on the show and today we're going to switch it up.

But Sean is with me in the hot seat to see if I remember some hyminals. It's been a long time, so we're going to see. All right, what you got? Okay, so it's not on here. Oh, Lord. Tis so sweet. trust in Jesus just to take him at his word you better sing it just to rest upon his

promise I do not remember the soul just to know all right we'll go to nothing all right that's good all right all right cool at the cross at the cross where I first saw that different one no you saw the of my heart rolled away it was there by faith I received my sight and now I am happy all today come on that's how we do it all right all right I'm going to make you proud mama all right all right blessed assurance Jesus is mine oh what a fore taste of glory divine. You finished. Is Earth the Salvation?

You go ahead and finish it. Purchased by God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Born up in spirit, washing his blood. Is that this is my story? Yep. Go ahead.

Go ahead. This is my story. This is my song. praising my savior all the day long is that the right note this is my story this is my song praising my savior all the day long is there a duet coming on

watch out BB and see you see all right All right One more One more? Yeah, one more Let's do it Ooh Uh-oh

I don't know I know I know all the rest of this one To help you out Okay What can wash Away my sins Nothing but the blood

I don't know the tune Of Jesus What can make me Whole again Nothing but the blood Of Jesus One of those Wide as

snow name I know oh nothing but the blood of Jesus come shoot him with the church right raised in it all right all right last one let's do one more that was fun all right all right it's not on here okay oh we'll speed that just a little bit all right let's do it okay Jesus I'll never forget what you've done for me Jesus I'll never forget how you set me free. Jesus, I'll never forget how you brought me out. Yes, I don't read this off. Jesus, I'll never forget, no, never.

All right, that's good. I don't remember that way. Yeah, I was raised Methodist. Oh. Yes, so, like, I know the amazing grace and the, some of them, but, like, yeah, I was raised Methodist. All right. Pass me not, oh, gentle say, babya.

I know this one. Hear my humble cry. While another's not another's now are calling. Do not pass me back. I'm calling you. Oh, Lord Savior Give my humble cry Oh, that's real.

There's some days like that. While on others thou art calling. Don't pass me by, Lord. I know they're calling on you. Okay, we need to take back to some hymnals. That was good. We have to pull my hymnal book out. Bashar, thank you.

you so much i've thoroughly enjoyed our conversation please tell our audience how they can keep up with you where they can download your new album all the things absolutely is it vashan mitchell.com shah mitcher facebook with shah mitcher instagram sometimes on snapchat it's all bachan mitchell music available streaming everywhere you stream your music check it out the new song make away it's making away yes let's get into make sure you guys download it right now run them streams up all the things when you go on the road we would love to support you yes thank you so much I appreciate it. I love this.

It's a great conversation. Yes. Today's Crystal's Clauseit, I am wearing a khaki-Helsa jumpsuit. My shoes are by Farragamo. I'm wearing Botechiaveneta earrings, a Van Cleef bracelet, and, yeah, this is the look. Get into it. I love this piece. From Mental Resilientia.

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