Keep it Positive, Sweetie - Petty Prayers, Real Healing

Episode Date: September 20, 2026

In the Season 12 finale of Keep It Positive, Sweetie, Crystal sits down with bestselling author, speaker, and faith leader Nona Jones for an honest conversation about what healing really looks like when forgiveness doesn’t immediately take the hurt away. Inspired by her new book, The Power of Petty Prayers, Nona opens up about trauma, rejection, betrayal, anger, boundaries, and the difference between saying you forgive and actually doing the deeper work of healing. This conversation is about faith without pretending, healing without rushing, and learning how to tell God the truth about what still hurts.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Ready for your next adventure? Etihad's global sale is here. Witness Nairobi's living traditions. Set sail on Phuket's pristine waters. Or let wonder be your guide in Kuala Lumpur. Book by Thursday and take off to over 50 destinations on sale.

Travel from October 26 to March 27. Book now at etihad.com. Etihad. Beyond Borders. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pasto survive the first bite?

Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.com for details and to check availability.

Bill. Connection is everything. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana. Jeremy Colhain. Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes.

Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. It's right up next to the microphone. I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What up? This Jay Valentine co-host of the R&B Money Podcast alongside my brother, R&B legend, Tank. Together, we've built a space for artists, executives, and fans of R&B music to reminisce and tell the real stories behind the music.

I have no money. I was hood famous. They think you're going to get everybody out. We lived in a project. Real love came. out. They're hearing the music and we had nothing. From Smokey Robinson to Mary J. Blige, B2K to Jill Scott. If you're a super dedicated R&B fan, this is where you belong. Listen to R&B money from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Mike Yam. And I'm Trevor Sycamma. And together we host the NFL Fantasy Football Show. Are you ready to dominate your fantasy league this season? Because if you aren't locked in with us on the NFL Fantasy Football Show, You're already playing from behind. Whether you're a first-time player or a grizzled vet chasing another championship would give you the advantage and the confidence you need to make every move counts.

Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The World Cup is over, but if you caught the soccer bug and aren't sure what to do now, check out our podcast, Big Kick Energy. I'm Cameron Dicker, the kicker from the Los Angeles Chargers, and I'm here with Timmy Tillman, current L-AFC star player. So we know a little something about kicking balls. Each week we'll tackle things like Who's winning the Premier League this year?

What do you think is harder? Scoring a penalty kick or scoring a field goal? Join us each week for a quick chat with your soccer-loving bros about the best sport in the world. Soccer. Just don't tell my coaches I said that. Listen to Big Kick Energy on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Hey, what's up? I'm Tony Gonzalez. And I'm October Gonzalez. But you can call me Tilby. We want you to join us on our new podcast No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez. We get real about marriage, parenthood, sex, divorce, and all the nitty-gritty stuff we all think about,

but just don't say out loud. You're probably just going to be some rich guy and he's going to whisk you away. Well, this is awkward. Listen to no safe words with October and Tony Gonzalez on the Iheart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Calling all my sweeties to the forefront,

I'm your host Chris Renee Hazett, and this is the Keep It Posit Sweetie Show. Welcome to Keep It Posit, Sweetie, the place where we heal, grow, and learn together. There are some hurts you forgive, but still carry. And sometimes the hardest part of healing isn't knowing what you're supposed to do, is being honest about what still needs to heal. Today I'm sitting down with Nona Jones, best-selling author, speaker, faith leader, and a former meta-executive whose work has reached people around the world

through conversations about identity, healing, and faith. also a woman who has been incredibly honest about her own journey through trauma, rejection, and the work it takes to truly heal. Her new book, The Power of Petty Prayers, deals with something I think so many of us can relate to. What do you do when you know you're supposed to forgive, but you're still hurt? Kids family, please give a very warm welcome to Nona Jones. Nona, welcome back. That's so good to me back. Yes. We first had you, we were at the house, we were just getting started with this podcast. And now we are here at Tyler Perry Studios. I'm so happy to have you back

for another book. Oh, gosh. Yes. I am excited to be back. But I want to say this first. I am so proud of you. Thank you. Like genuinely. I've said so many times that success doesn't change people, it reveals people. Absolutely. And you have been revealed as a woman after the heart of God, a woman of integrity, a woman of care and compassion. And so I'm just, I love you. Just proud of you, honored to know you. Thank you. Same. Same. same. When I got the call, said you had a new book out, I was like, absolutely. Anything for Nona. You're always welcome.

There are some people, it's like, it's an open door policy. So we are always happy to have you back. Before we dive into the conversation, we're talking about the power of petty prayers, which I absolutely love. But I want to play a little game with you before we get started. And your Instagram is called Nona, not Nora. So I want to find out what is very Nona and absolutely not Nona. All right.

So I'm going to throw out a few things and you just tell me, Nona or not Nona. Okay. The first one is saying exactly what you're thinking the first time. Ooh, that is Nona. I love that. Canceling plans because your social battery is gone. Not Nona.

I'll keep the plans, even if I'm depleted, just because I believe in keeping my words. I know that's right. That's good. That's good. Asking for help before you try to figure it out yourself. asking for help is not knowna. She's like, nope.

Unfollowing somebody for your own piece. Ooh. So it's not known it because what I'll do is on mute. Be too. I don't unfollow. I'm a mute. Yes. Until they start asking, what happened?

I can't tag you on nothing. Oh, I don't know. Maybe it's something wrong with the platform. I'm a mute too. A mute or a block. Yes. If you really cross me, then I'm just going to block you. But I'm with you on that.

And then the next one is taking an entire day off and feeling absolutely no guilt about it. Ooh. Oh, that's a hard one, Chris. So I know that's a not, that's a not known. I will feel guilt because there's so much I need to do. I know. You're busy. Yeah.

Yeah. For sure. Final one. Something people probably assume is very nona, but it's actually not known at all. Ooh. fill in the blank. Being comfortable being in the front. Wow.

It's like I don't mind it, but it's not something that I pursue. And I think that God has graced me with a leadership grace, so it happens naturally. But I'm cool just being. I don't have to be in the front or the leader. Yeah, that's good. And a lot of times people think because you're on stage all the time, that that is something that you actually enjoy. I'm the same way.

Just because I'm a quote-unquote celebrity or famous, I don't crave that attention. Sometimes I just want to be. I do like to connect with the people, but a lot of times I just want to chill, want to be able to move around like a normal person. Yes, I'm with you on that. I love that.

Thank you so much for playing. Oh, yeah. That was fun. It's a little icebreaker. So you have done so many things professionally. You are an executive, an author, a ministry leader, a wife, a mom, and now you're entering your new chapter, because you've written, you're an author, you've already done books,

but now this is the new one, the Power of Petty Prayers. Before we get into everything that is Power of Petty Prayers, I want to know how is Nona in this season of her life? Oh, girl. This is probably the best season I've ever been in, but not because of something tangible to give you a little bit of backstory. So I actually have had a shift in my identity

over the last couple of years. I spent 20 years in executive leadership in corporate America, loved what I was doing. But back in 2022, God called me into full-time ministry. Now, at the time, I was in leadership with meta, making really good money. I had just got a promotion, had a team with global scope, like really having an amazing career. So when the Lord said that, I looked at my lifestyle and I said, ministry can't pay for that. And so I said thanks but no thanks, right? Well, you're like, that's not my ministry.

No, I don't think God's called me to that ministry because I was out and I was preaching, I was teaching, but it was more like a hobby than a vocation. So it was not paying the bills. So when God said that, I was like, no thanks. Fast forward a few months and the Lord literally released me from that job. I was one of the first 11,000 people that went through the layoff at Meta. My job literally went away. And when that happened, I found myself having an existential crisis because it wasn't just about the money. I remember the first question that popped into my mind was, but if I'm not an executive, what am I?

And, you know, if you would have asked me, was I a woman of faith at that time, I would have said yes. Like, absolutely. I believed God. God would tell me to give people money. I would have no problem giving people $500,000 strangers just because God said to give it. But the Lord broke me down to a place where he said, Nona, I have to teach you what true faith is because what you've been calling faith in me has been faith in you. It's been faith in your positions, your bank accounts, your connections.

I kid you not, Crystal, everything I tried to do in that season failed. Like I tried to get other jobs that failed. Jobs I was more than qualified for. Failed. I tried to get consulting contracts failed. Everything failed. God said, Nona, this is going to be your year of manna. And this was back in 2023.

That whole year, I had to literally rely on the provision of God because everything I tried to do failed. And when I tell you, Crystal, I made more money that year without trying. than I ever made on anybody's payroll. And so in this season of my life, the reason why I say I'm in the best place I've ever been in is because I knew that God was Jira, but now I know him as Jira, right?

Like I knew he was faithful, but now I know him as faithful. Right. And so I'm living in faith now, and so I have joy, I have peace, I'm not striving. I walk through the doors that God opens, and I'm not wrestling anymore.

So it is a wonderful season to be in. I love that. I love that. That's amazing because I think so many women, I've spoken to a lot of women at different events, and somewhere along the conversation, the word pivot comes up. Oh, goodness. How are you navigating the pivot?

But to have a shift in your identity, I think that is so, important, you know, because you were hitting home. Like a lot of times we put identity in what we do in our bank accounts, in our connections. Like, you were spot on with that. And I think that a lot of times when we figure out what that true identity is, which is in Christ and what he sees in us and our purpose on this earth is, that's when we can realize, okay, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. That alignment and abiding in him. Once you're in that alignment, it's like, okay, I get it. Well, and the challenge is what God revealed to me is whenever God's calling you to a new season, he's also calling you to a new identity.

And so what happens is we want the new season, but we want to take the old identity with us. And so that is why what will typically happen is when God calls you to a new season, things will start to strip away. Relationships, even opportunities, things that you placed your identity in will start to, disappear and you'll wonder like why is this happening like why are these people no longer showing up for me you know why is my job so hard right now why are the things that used to come so easily so difficult it's because god is literally stripping you of an identity that will not serve where he's taking you and so i had to learn that so now i can sit in this seat and i can declare it with authority that sis if you're in a situation where you're like everything's falling apart i don't understand it's probably because

God is forming something new in you that your new season requires. Right. That's so good. I want to ask you this. You spend so much your life teaching others and preaching and pouring into so many people and even just giving. In the book you talk about how you use your resources or however you can support people. You've done that.

I want to know in this season what has God been teaching you that has nothing to do with what you're teaching everybody else. Oh, man. So much. I think the power of abiding in his presence. You know, I start my day every morning just in his presence. And it has become my lifeline. You know, there was a time when I would start my morning looking at my schedule for the day

and like what it is I had to do for the day. Now I just start in his presence because Psalm 91-1, it says that he, she, who dwells in the secret place of the Most High, shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I don't know what the day holds. I know what I have planned, but I don't know what it holds. As long as I'm under his shadow, I'm protected. For sure. And so he's been teaching me that is just dwelling, abiding, and being a daughter.

And I have businesses and I have all that, but it's like not being a businesswoman, not being an executive, being a daughter. I didn't know what it meant to be a daughter. My dad passed before I was two. My mom and I are estranged. She let her boyfriend abuse me. I didn't know what it meant to be a daughter. Now I know. Now you know that is beautiful.

What does that journey been like? First time you were here, you opened up about what you went through as a child, about your relationship with your mother. And I want to know now what has that journey been like realizing that I am the most highest daughter? It has been restorative in ways. Like it healed parts of me that I didn't even know were wounded. We talked last time about just rejection. Yeah.

and how rejection can teach you that you're not wanted, that you're not worthy, that you are only as good as the value that you create. And what God has taught me about being a daughter is like, you're worthy just because you're mine. There's nothing you have to do. There's nothing that you could do that would make you any more worthy. That has been just incredible for me because that's not how I lived my life. I thought I had to work my way into approval. Now I know just the fact that I'm.

breathe. Yeah. I'm approved of. That's changed everything for me. Yeah, that's so good. I love that. You've been very vocal about everything that you've gone through from your childhood to even through adulthood. I want to ask, because a lot of people assume that with everything that you've accomplished, it comes with confidence. But you've been very vocal about even the wounds. I want to know, when did you realize that being successful and being healed were not the same thing? You talk about the very high-paying job with META and going through navigating healing at the same time. And sometimes we can confuse the two. Oh, yeah.

It's like, oh, I'm good because success can mask the wound. When did you realize that they were different? I have come to realize that success doesn't have periods. It has commas. There's always a next, always another thing. There's always another achievement, another goal. like there's no peace. And I think that's when I came to that realization

that success and healing are not the same. I did believe for the longest time that, okay, if I can just get to this level, if I could just get this recognition, just get this award, then I'll actually matter. And you get the thing. And then, you know, a couple days later, it's just like, all right, what next?

And so that's what really taught me that, yeah, you can achieve, but you don't necessarily heal. And healing is a process, and that absolutely requires the power of God. It does. That's so true. I know for so, for a long time, like I would, I had a habit of when things weren't going right, I would go buy something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not a pair of shoes. Correct. But like, that's so stupid. But I literally go through a breakup and I'm like, I deserve a new car. Yes, I'm getting another house.

I'm in a place to go. Literally. It's true. But the moment you get that thing, whatever it is, it doesn't heal the broken heart. Yeah. It doesn't fix whatever the root of the cause of that hurt is. Yeah. You realize after you drive it around 285 a few times, it's like, yeah, I'm still feeling empty.

I still feel the same way I felt before I got this. So it's so true that a lot of times we try to like use items or like other things to heal, but it's not fixing anything. Because what we're trying to heal is in the domain of the soul. Yeah. The things that we buy, the accomplishments, those things, they deal in the domain of the flesh, right? The body, right? Well, yeah, you may get that dopamine hit. Let's just say, the thing happens.

You're like, whoa, I did it. But dopamine fades. And the wound remains because it's in the soul. And God wants to heal our soul. That's so true. You talk about your independence was rooted in rejection or the fear of rejection. and when I read that it made me kind of,

I look at some of my people in my circle, you know, and people just not even in my circle that I know and I'm like, I can kind of see where the people pleasing comes from when I know their back hits. I'm like, ah, that's why you are the way you are with the like, yes to everything.

Yes. Because you don't want to be rejected because your mother may have rejected you or your sister or father or you've been hurt by this guy that you really liked. And it turns into this, I want to make sure everybody's happy

because I don't want to be rejected, but it's rooted in something that happened a long time ago. Ready for your next adventure? Etihad's global sale is here. Witness Nairobi's living traditions. Set sail on Phuket's pristine waters. Or let Wonder be your guide in Kuala Lumpur. Book by Thursday and take off to over 50 destinations on sale.

Travel from October 26 to March 27. Book now at Etihad.com. Etihad, Beyond Borders. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pasto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all?

And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus From $94 a month, price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.com.com for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angela Geratana. Jeremy Colhane.

Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. The improvised character comedy podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of wellness influencers. What I try to do is faux journal. I don't know. Have you guys heard of faux journaling? Yeah, it's reading. It's called reading. So we don't like to use that word anymore.

Okay. A panel of New Yorker cartoonists. Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton class? No! I've been dying too. I'm so sorry. I'm seeing a reading of Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Audra McDonald's at the Wonderland Bookstore on 14. That's crazy. I went to the Wonderland Bookstore yesterday and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of Zero Dark 30. No way. You have to come to the last bookstore, though. Kim Cottrell is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday.

A panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. He gets right up next to the microphone. I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to artists on artists on artists on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. The World Cup is over, but if you caught the soccer bug and aren't sure what to do now, check out our podcast, Big Kick Energy. I'm Cameron Dicker, the kicker from the Los Angeles Chargers, most accurate kicker in NFL history, but I was raised on the soccer pitches of Shanghai.

And I'm here with Timmy Tillman, L-A-F-C-Star, grew up in the academies of Germany and now under the bright lights of Major League Soccer. So, we know a little something about kicking balls. Maybe you're new to the game, or you're ready to take your passion to the next level. Each week we'll tackle things like Who's winning the Premier League this year?

Playing like a number 10 Do you know what that means? Then we go over to France Ligoon. Ligand? Liga. He knows more. He's better than me.

What do you think is harder? Scoring a penalty kick or scoring a field goal? He's in the NFL and I'm like, just a big factor. I do enough that's crazy. Join us each week for a quick chat with your soccer-loving bros about the best sport in the world. Soccer, just don't tell my coaches I said that. Listen to Big Kick Energy on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Hey, what's up? I'm Tony Gonzalez. And I'm October Gonzalez. But you can call me Toby. We want you to join us on our new podcast, No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez. We get real about marriage, parenthood, sex, divorce, and all the nitty-gritty stuff we all think about, but just don't say out loud. I hate that job. You're probably just going to meet with some rich guy, and he's going to whisk you away, and I'll never see you again. And, oh, this is awkward.

Would you say a D-less actor? D? I don't even know there's this thing as D. No, no, no. I mean like... Can't even get on the C-list? Like, I'm not even an average. I'm not even passing.

I'm failing. Listen to No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez, part of My Culture Podcast Network. Available on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Is there an epidemic against literature? More specifically, black literature. Our books are being banned, scanned by AI, and

destroyed. I'm Jaquist Peace Thomas and on this season of the Black Lit podcast, we're outside asking some of the custodians of our stories, teachers, and our modern day writers why? They don't want a whole bunch of little elevators. Michael Maxes and Martin Luther King's running around. They want to build children who have no empathy. That's really the ultimate goal. We want books that don't make white kids feel bad. So is the war on literacy and information or our ability to connect. We want people to know how sexy reading is and how fun they could be

and not always associated with education. It could be an escape. It could be entertainment. And that is the beauty of reading. It can be all of those things. And considering this is Black Reading Month, the only real question is, what are you reading next?

Listen to Black Lit from the Black Effect Podcast Network on our iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey everyone, I'm Mike Yam. And I'm Trevor Sykima, and together we host the NFL fantasy football show. Fantasy season is upon us. Are you ready to dominate your league? Because if you aren't locked in with us on the NFL fantasy football show, you're already playing from behind.

Every episode, we're going to dive into the biggest fantasy headlines. Injury updates that you'll need before kickoff. The best starts and sits across every position. And matchups, you can exploit to destroy your league mates. You know, we're talking sleepers, breakout stars, and the guys you cannot afford to bench. From rookies on the rise to longtime stars still at it, we cover it all. Whether you're a first-time player or a grizzled vet chasing another championship, we give you the advantage and the confidence you need to make every move count.

Weekly analysis, hot takes, and unique insider knowledge all in one place. Does fantasy dominance sound appealing to you? Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. How did you begin to recognize the difference between strength you generally developed or a survival mechanism that you needed? So I know we're going to talk about this book,

but my book after this book, the working title. She sent the book after the book. The working title is who do you say I am? My God. And it's dealing with people pleasing. Because so many of us don't even know who we are. because rejection has shaped our personality.

And we don't even realize it. It's this need to be accepted. We will accept things in relationships that are unacceptable just because we feel like we were chosen, even if they only give us crumbs, right? Like, you chose me, so I will accept what you give, even though I deserve better. Rejection teaches us that.

And so I had to go through a process of unlearning what rejection taught me. Rejection taught me, you're only as good as they decide you are. You're only as worthy as they decide you are. That's what rejection teaches you, which is why we try to work our way into other people's approval. But people's approval is fickle.

You know, one day you are the best thing since sliced bread. The next day, they ain't even talking to you. Not returning your calls and texts. And so your worth becomes, it's like the current of the sea. You don't know which way it's going to go. and I had to get to a place and that's why I think it really goes back to being anchored in who God says you are

but that is a lifelong process some of us we know intuitively who God says we are you're fearfully wonderfully made before you were formed in the womb God chose you blah blah blah we know that intuitively but we don't act like it

invades your soul when it invades your soul there are things you don't accept because I know who I am so I don't accept those things I don't need those things because I know who I am without it yes exactly

exactly. That's a process. Yeah, for sure. So in your book, Jordan, is her name? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There were so many instances where you poured into this lady, right? And I was like, ooh, let me see her on the street. But it was one of us, I'm like, man, how could somebody do you like that, you know? And it was so many different scenarios. I want to know it. And as I was reading, I was like, was there, a point where you intuitively knew, I'm not getting what I'm putting into this, but you continued to pour. Absolutely. Let's talk about those time moments.

That is, I believe that's a byproduct of rejection. So I can now look back on that scenario. And essentially, Jordan was someone who was starting out, you know, her speaking career in the business space, just like me. I was already in that space, established. And she kind of latched on to me. And I'm the kind of person. This is both a virtue and advice.

I believe that people are who they present themselves to be. Right. Until they prove themselves different. Correct. I'm with you. And so I'm the kind of person. If I can help. Because sometimes I have to be feeling like, there's that discernment.

Yeah, I'm like, I ain't feeling it. Listen, I'm the kind of person. If I can help you, I will. Like, I just, I don't, I don't gate keep. Yes. And so there were things that I did for her to try to help her build her platform and all those things. And when the opportunity came for her to reciprocate, she not only didn't reciprocate,

but she undermined me. Yeah, I didn't like that. And she worked to sabotage me. And I look back on that situation now and I can absolutely see the moments where she revealed herself. Honey, it was the very first one when she said, I want to do exactly what you do.

I said, I had to go back. I said, that part. I missed something in the die. I said, that's where it was right there. And I completely missed it because in my mind, I'm like, okay, well, let me help you do that. I'm not thinking, oh, no, I want to literally displace you.

That's not what I'm thinking. She said it from the, jump. She said it, yeah. But I look back on that now and I can see instances where I knew that discernment. I was like, because what it was was I got to a place where I almost knew I can't count on her. Like I sensed I couldn't count on her, but I was like, but no, I'm sure I can because look at all I've done for her. I can when it comes on to it. No, no, no. She proved I couldn't count on her and that was so hurtful. The betrayal was hurtful. And the thing about betrayal is betrayal requires that you are vulnerable enough

to allow somebody to hurt you while trusting that they won't only for them to do it. That's what betrayal is. Betrayal requires that I believe you won't hurt me so I'm going to give you the power to do it and then you do it. And so when she did that,

it wounded me for years. It hurt deeply. How did that impact relationships to come? Was there a wall up or did you continue to keep an open heart? Or were you like, see, that's why I said. It's my virtue and my vice. I don't know how.

And I thought about this. I don't know how to have a wall with people. I don't know how. That's good. I don't know if it's good. I don't know how to be like really like, oh, let me check this person out. I'm just not that way.

And so that leaves me open to be hurt. But I think the way that I've compensated for that now that I think about it is giving without expectation of return. That's good. So it's like you really don't have the power to hurt me because I don't even expect anything from you. Yeah, yeah. That's good. That's so good.

I took that for my dad when it came to loaning people money. He said, when someone asks you for money and says they're going to pay you back, just give it, baby. Because nine times out of ten, they're not going to, when they get it, they still going to need it. They still not going to have it to give it to you. So he's like, just give it. That way you don't burn any bridges. You're not upset with anybody. But the same thing from being hurt and then staying open to whether it's love or friends.

I think the same goes. For me, I believe that I take some things and I do build up a wall until you show me that you're not like the last person who I let in that hurt me, you know? But still like in a loving way, I don't, you know, I'm not, I'm going to help you have or I can, but there's certain things I just watch out for now. If I see the patterns that I've already seen before, I'm like, oh, I've seen this before. let me just see how this plays out. And that is actually a good thing.

I call that smart trust. It's trust that is built on a track record, right? And so it's like, I am going to trust you to the extent that you prove to be trustworthy. Where I have failed is I'm just like, everybody's great. Everybody's great. We're all good. We all love Jesus. We're all good.

No. That's not true. Listen, okay, PD just talked about it. He said, just because they say, you don't mean they're safe. Listen, listen. That's a real thing. Yeah.

We all love Jesus. We all love Jesus. And it's like, but again, it gets, I truly know that that kind of gets back to the rejection wound because it's like I want so badly to believe. And this is actually a part that I did. I don't think I talked about in the book. When I experienced that layoff from meta specifically, I remember thinking, but if I'm not here, who will still want to be my friend?

I remember thinking that because I was. would have people constantly reach out, hey, can you get me a blue check? Wow. Hey, can I get a meeting with Mark. Hey, can I, you know, I mean, just people, and I will say, some people definitely fell off. But there were so many others who stayed. Yeah. Because it wasn't about that.

It wasn't about that, yeah. You know, and so that was also revelatory for me. And I think we can sometimes get so fixated on who walked away. We don't pay attention who stayed. That's so good, no. Yeah. Yes, that is so good. I didn't have to use somebody for a blue check, but I did.

So I got hacked one day. So it does pay to have some people with meta. Because shout out. I woke up and I saw all these alerts from WhatsApp and my verification two-step. I said, what's going on? I said, oh, my goodness, they didn't get into everything. So I had to call my friends. I was like, hey, they got me.

We got to switch it over. So it pays to have people in high places. You have pure intentions. You're not just using people. Some people be like, hey, yeah, let's be friends. So I can use you and I need you. Yeah, no, not at all. Yeah, that was crazy.

But no, I totally understand. The same thing. I pay attention to like when people come around. You know, because I am like the person's like, I'm including everybody. But I kind of watch certain things to see, like, are you just around because of the access? Yes. Are you around because you really love me? You know, I pay attention to who supports, you know, and who's like, no, I'm going to buy my ticket to your live show.

I'm coming, you know. I'm about to be like Beyonce. I'm just letting y'all know right now. B and J make everybody pay for their tickets. See, to me that's a gift. So, you'll get a discount. Hold on.

Well, you're working. So you're good. Let me speak to this camera right here. And I'm going to say this on behalf of everybody, all right? I'm going to say this on behalf of everybody. So many times people think, oh, I'm supporting you because I'm showing up for free. Let's talk about it.

When something costs, you're not supporting. by showing up for free. You are supporting by paying to be there. Come on. I just want to put that out there just so that. That's good. Just because... Say it about the people. Listen. No, I'm telling you, my friends, I've had some of my friends, they'd be like, you know you didn't have to pay, no, I did.

Even if you let me in for free, I'm still buying a ticket. That's what I do. Because I'll buy tickets for other people. Friendship is free. Productions cost. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. Fire my spell. Let me tell you a lot. I had, we actually recorded one of our production meetings, and I talked about that. I was transparent about taking a hit from one of my other live shows where we didn't put merch out that month,

so I was already in the hole, and then everything I made from the live show, which you understand, there's a lot of work that goes into that. That had to go to cover everything for us not selling merch that month, so I didn't make anything. And I was like, I do all this work, and I pour my whole mind, body, and soul out to these people, and I'm walking away with nothing. And I was like, but I also like have this like mindset of like I want everything to be so big and grand. Absolutely. That cost.

If we're going to do it, we're going to do it. Yeah, we're going to do it. But now I'm like, all right, we're going to bring this, break it down, put in the back of a truck. We're going to bring these chairs and these microphones and this table. We're going to cut these cars where we're. That's real. No, that's so real. And I think people don't understand until it happens to them.

Right. So people and people will get offended because they'll be like, well, I'm your friend. I'm just, I'm just like, honey, yeah, you're my friend. And this ain't. This ain't free. Like, we can talk afterwards. You got, you don't have to be there if you don't want to be there. Right.

I'll talk to you Monday. Yeah, but we have to support, I think support financially when there's a financial cost for short. Absolutely, yeah, that was. I don't even know how we got on that. I don't either. That's real. That was real.

But it's real. No, because see, I have my retreat. I have an annual retreat. But you need to come. I need to come to. Yes. So I have an annual retreat every year and it's luxury. Yes.

So we go to really great places. It's thousands of dollars per person. Yes. All right. and some people will be like, oh, yeah, I'll be there. And it's just like, okay, well, which, what's the registration level you're trying to get at? Here's a link. You say free, baby.

Ain't no comp tickets. No. All right, we're going to move on. It's so real. I think it's just raw for me because it's next month. Anyway, go ahead. And you just had your event, so it's raw. It was very fresh.

Yes, it's very fresh. You've spent so much of your life surviving. Is there ever a fear around who you'll become? when you no longer have to rely on just surviving? I would say before my wilderness year, I definitely had that fear because I could not imagine, I couldn't imagine being in the place I'm at now where I literally, I am good.

I don't need another thing. I'm good. I never thought I could get to that place. But now that I'm here, I realize the things, the thing that I needed all along was a thing I always had and that was the presence of God. Like I know that now, but I didn't then. Then I was like, okay, thank you God.

Now let me go ahead and get over all this stuff over here. So, yeah, I'm thriving because I have the one thing that I truly needed. I love that. Resting in him. I was talking to a friend last night and we were talking about the Sabbath. And we always had these deep conversations about God. And I was like, we were talking about how many contradictions are in the Bible. But just when you talk about having peace in him, and I was like, he was like, yeah, just like, you know,

understanding like the Sabbath. And I said, yeah, he said, do you believe that it's like a certain day? I said, no, I don't. I feel like you should just take one day out of the week to rest and, like, abide in him and allow him to do. I say, because God can do more. PDR says he can do more in six days and you can do in seven. Yes, sir. So take that rest day.

And he said, oh, this is deep. I said, ooh, he said, but he said, if you are resting in. him he said you find rest in Jesus he was like when you're resting in him you don't have to do that because you're always resting I said I said no what man of God that's real it was so good but I understand how you're like no now that I found this this piece is a different kind of piece that you have it's a state of Sabbath yes not a day of Sabbath it's a state yeah that's it's it's it but so many people don't find that yeah because we man This world is designed by the kingdom of darkness to keep us in a perpetual state of discontent.

Yes, yes. I was talking to a friend, Grammy Award winning artist, and I said to him, I said, the Grammys happened every year, right? And he was like, yeah. And I said, so every year, you won, I don't know how many Grammys, every year, you basically have to put yourself back on the block for other people to decide. Whether you're good enough or not. If your work was deemed worthy. Yeah. This world is designed to keep us discontinent.

And so I've been on a social media fast. I don't even want to call it a fast. And this point is kind of a lifestyle. I may pop in every now and then, but I've just been off because I got to the point where I was seeing everybody else's highlight reel and the highlight reel of my own life was becoming dim. Yes.

Because of what I was seeing everyone else doing. We're not built to even take on. all the information we take in. I mean, we used to know who the cutest girl in our school was. Why do I know who's the prettiest girl in Dubai? Right, right. Why do I know that? Like, I don't, I shouldn't know that.

Yeah, right. But that's how we're, that's the world we're living in. Yes, we had young Joe on a few seasons back and he had a flip phone. And I said, I mean, West were just talking about it today, just about just taking a break and just kind of disconnecting. And he said, man, I'm going to do what Joe did. He said, I want to like kind of take. steps to just disconnecting, but he said, I think I'm going to go get the flip phone.

I was like, I forgot all about that. We got to get the flip phone. They call them the dumb phones. We have the smartphone, get a dumb phone. Let me give me a dumb phone. But now, if I want to know what people are doing, I have to just call, be like, hey, what's up? I can't check and see where you're out or what you're doing. I have to do it the old school way.

And that's another thing. Like, we don't check on people because we see them like, oh, they're fine. Correct. They're fine. We see the highlight real and don't realize they're struggling. Yeah. I had, I talked to a friend of mine, you probably know if I said her name, she has a very large platform. But I just called her.

I was driving from Orlando. I had like three hours or something. I called her just to check on her. And I was like, girl, how are you doing? And she had just finished crying her eyes out. She said, Nona, I'm so depressed right now. But if you looked at her profile, smiles, best vacations, looking gorgeous, looking flawless. And she just finished crying her eyes out.

And so we got to check on each other, especially the ones who seem like we don't need to check on the strong ones. Exactly. That's so true. That's good. I can talk to you all day long. Let's get into this new book, honey. I'm so excited. You know, I think there's always a layer of pity that creeps in when we're angry.

Yeah. You know, and so when I saw the title of this book, I said, that's actually so good. And before we started filming today, we were talking about Psalms and David and the way he would talk to God. And I love how you mirrored that through your prayers and understand that you don't have to hide how you feel from God because he already knows. I want to ask you, when you know you're supposed to give someone, to forgive someone, but you're still angry, how do you navigate that? Well, I think it's important to understand what forgiveness does and does not do. Come on. Because I think in the church, we have given forgiveness a power that it doesn't have.

When someone experiences offense, especially a deep offense, a deep hurt, a deep wound, what we'll typically do is we'll say, well, you just need to forgive, right? Just forgive because you're hurt. You're hurt because you haven't forgiven. Well, I want you to imagine you're riding down the street on a bike. You're in the bike lane. And a car veers into the bike lane and hits you. And they break your leg.

And the person hops out the car and they're like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. my mom was just admitted to the hospital. I was frantic. I wasn't paying attention. And you hear their explanation and you forgive them for what they did, right? You release them from the debt that they created, but you still have to deal with the broken leg.

Yeah. And so forgiveness releases that person from having to repay the debt they created, but now the debt has to be paid. And so the hurt that's there, the bitterness, the resentment, the pain, It really has nothing to do with forgiveness because forgiveness is a decision.

The bitterness is because of the impact. And we don't talk about the impact. In church, this is the part that actually breaks my heart because I counsel a lot of women, especially successful women who are navigating deep offenses. And what they're told is, well, you just need to forgive. Okay. Now, one of the reasons why I wrote this book,

when I wrote the gift of rejection, I put my email in the back of the book, and I got thousands of letters from readers. And there was one woman in particular, her name was Beth. She said, The gift of rejection was a blessing. Thank you for writing it. She said, but I have a problem. She said, my husband of 20 years, cheated on me,

left me and my kids for a woman half my age. She said, I have forgiven him, but I'm still angry. Why am I still angry after forgiving? She couldn't understand. So I think it's important to understand that you can forgive someone and still be bitter because the bitterness is about the impact of what they did. And that's where we need healing. Oh, that's good. I will.

I don't have to ask me on this question because I was going to ask you because a lot of times I feel like as Christians, we are told to forgive and forget. Yes. It's fine. Let go and let God. He'll deal with it. But we don't address the pain that we suppressed. Correct. That was, yeah.

And pain that we suppressed, it's been biologically sown. It's been studied over and over. The pain that we suppressed, it actually shows up as illness and sickness. We have people with high blood pressure that doesn't run in their family. we have people with diabetes that is not genetic because of bitterness that has literally changed your biology. And so what I'm really submitting in this book is a pathway and a framework for how to heal. And it starts with being honest. So many times we're like, oh, no, no, I'm good.

That happens so long ago, I forgive and I'm over it. No, you're not. The pain is still there and God wants to heal it. Yes, that is so true. Etihad's global sale is here. Witness Nairobi's living traditions. Set sail on Phuket's pristine waters. Or let wonder be your guide in Kuala Lumpur.

Book by Thursday and take off to over 50 destinations on sale. Travel from October 26 to March 27. Book now at Etihad.com. Etihad, Beyond Borders. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all?

And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.com.combe for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana. Jeremy Colhane, Patrick McDonald.

And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of wellness influencers. What I try to do is faux journal. I don't know. Have you guys heard of faux journaling? Yeah, it's reading. It's called reading. So we don't like to use that word anymore. A panel of New Yorker cartoonists.

Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton classes? No! I've been dying too. I'm so sorry. I'm seeing a reading of Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Audra McDonald's at the Wonderland Bookstore on 14th. That's crazy. I went to the Wonderland Bookstore yesterday, and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of Zero Dark 30. No way.

You have to come to the last bookstore, though. Kim Cottrell is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday. A panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. He gets right up next to the microphone. I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other.

You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to artists on artists on artists on artists on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The World Cup is over. But if you caught the soccer bug and aren't sure what to do now, check out our podcast, Big Kick Energy. I'm Cameron Dicker, the kicker from the Los Angeles Chargers, most accurate kicker in NFL history. But I was raised on the soccer pitches of Shanghai.

And I'm here with Timmy Tillman. an L-AFC star, grew up in the academies of Germany and now under the bright lights of major league soccer. So, we know a little something about kicking balls. Maybe you're new to the game, or you're ready to take your passion to the next level. Each week we'll tackle things like, who's winning the Premier League this year? Playing like a number 10, do you know what that means? Then we go over to France. Ligoon.

Ligon. Liga. He knows more. He's better than me. What do you think is harder? Scoring a penalty kick or scoring a field goal? He's in the NFL. and I'm like, just a big factor.

I do it. That's crazy. Join us each week for a quick chat with your soccer-loving bros about the best sport in the world. Soccer. Just don't tell my coaches I said that. Listen to Big Kick Energy on the I-Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, what's up? I'm Tony Gonzalez. And I'm October Gonzalez. But you can call me Toby. We want you to join us on our new podcast, No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez. We get real about marriage, parenthood,

sex, divorce, and all the nitty-gritty stuff if we all think about, but just don't say out loud. I hate that job. You're probably just going to meet with some rich guy and he's going to whisk you away and I'll never see you again. Well, this is awkward. Would you say a D-less actor?

D? I don't even know there's this thing as D. No, no, no. I mean, like... Can't even get on the C-list? Like, I'm not even an average. I'm not even passing. I'm failing. Listen to No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez, part of My Culture Podcast Network.

Available on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Is there an epidemic against literature? More specifically, black literature. Our books are being banned, scanned by AI, and destroyed. I'm Jack Quee's Peace Thomas and on this season of the Blacklit podcast. We're outside asking some of the custodians of our stories, teachers, and our modern day writers why? They don't want a whole bunch of little elevators, Michael Maxes and Martin Luther Kings running around. They want to build children who have no empathy. That's really the ultimate goal. We want books that don't make white kids feel bad.

So is the war on literacy and information or our ability to connect? We want people to know how sexy reading is and how fun they could be and not always associated with education. It could be an escape. It could be entertainment. And that is the beauty of reading. It can be all of those things. And considering this is Black Reading Month, the only real question is, What are you reading next? Listen to Black Lit from the Black Effect Podcast Network on our iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, everyone, I'm Mike Yam.

And I'm Trevor Sycamma, and together we host the NFL fantasy football show. Fantasy season is upon us. Are you ready to dominate your league? Because if you aren't locked in with us on the NFL fantasy football show, you're already playing from behind. Every episode, we're going to dive into the biggest fantasy headlines. injury updates that you'll need before kickoff. The best starts and sits across every position.

And matchups you can exploit to destroy your league mates. You know, we're talking sleepers, breakout stars, and the guys you cannot afford to bench. From rookies on the rise to longtime stars still at it, we cover it all. Whether you're a first-time player or a grizzled vet chasing another championship, we give you the advantage and the confidence you need to make every move count. weekly analysis, hot takes, and unique insider knowledge all in one place. Does fantasy dominance sound appealing to you? Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

About being honest and being honest with God about how you feel. When did you realize, and I go back to the moment when you went back to your hotel room and you were yelling about God and wanting justice for what she had done to you. But when did you realize I don't have to. to sanitize my prayers with God, I can literally say what is on my heart. Yeah. And he understands. Listen, I was, I was going to read it because I was in the Bible. I was just doing my annual Bible plan.

Yeah. And I got to Psalm 35. And I, you know, I, because we love Psalm 23. The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want. He makes me lie down in green pastors. And so I, I think around the time I got to Psalm 35, it might have been that same situation because I was just, I was so angry. But I didn't feel like I could really express my anger to

God. Like I felt like it would be wrong of me. Like, oh, I shouldn't feel this way. Like, I should just forgive and just love. Man, David said, what do you say? He said, contend Lord with those who contend with me. Fight against those who fight against me. Take up shield and armor. Arise and come to my aid. Brandish spear and javelin against those who pursue me. Say to me, I am your salvation. He said, may those who seek my life be disgraced and put to shame. May those who plot my ruin be turned back in dismay. May they be like chaff before the wind with the angel of the Lord driving them away. This was the verse that got me.

He said, may their path be dark and slippery with the angel of the Lord pursuing them. David was like, God, I want this to be like Friday the 13th. I want it to be like a nightmare on Elm Street. I want Michael to be. Listen. And when I read that, I remember reading it and feeling so uncomfortable because I was like, whoa. Like, how do you even pray like that?

Right. And then I had to remember the Bible itself says that all scripture is inspired to the Lord for our instruction. It's given to us as a model, as a blueprint for life. And that's when God opened my eyes. And he said, daughter, I've already given you the words to pray. Yeah. He said, and I can handle the truth.

And so I started to study David's prayers, and I realized, oh, he went in. Like, he wasn't just saying, oh, God bless them, enlarge their territory. No, he was like, slap them across the face, break their teeth. There was one prayer, David pray, where he was like, he said something like, may their children be fatherless. I was like, kill them, Lord. I said, David. But what it did. And see, this is what's, this is.

is what's important. If you go back to, I think it's Second Samuel. So a lot of the prayers that David prayed were because of Saul and he was, you know, trying to kill him. He had laid all types of traps for David and was trying to take him out. But if you go to Second Samuel at the end of Saul's life, when David heard about Saul's death, Second Samuel 1 and 11 says, then David and all the men with him took hold of their clothes and tore them. They mourned and wept and fasted till evening for Saul and his son Jonathan and for the army of the Lord and for the nation of Israel because they had fallen by the sword. He even said, the shield of the mighty was despised, the shield of Saul. I knew then that it was those petty prayers that gave David the healing he needed to be able to

mourn. The man that was trying to kill him, yeah, that he used to just adore that turned on him. Yes. I said, that's the missing link. Yeah. We have been taught that you just need to forgive, but we're still bitter. We're still angry. We're still resentful because we feel like we don't have permission to pray, honestly. And God is saying, daughter, I've given you the words. so if you really want to heal bring it to me I can handle it no no

that is so good I know people are going to be blessed they're always blessed when you come on but I'm blessed are y'all blessed talking to the congregation so good so good throughout the book you're not promising

that people will forget what happened to them but I want to know what does freedom from offense actually feel like, especially when it comes from someone, we're talking about Saul and David, especially when the offense comes from someone that you love. We talk about family and the wounds that people are the closest to you that hurt you. And it's like, I didn't expect that from you. Yeah. But how do you deal with that type of offense when it comes from somebody close? So I am of the belief when it comes to healing, especially, that there is a hierarchy of offense.

Because, you know, let's just be honest. Like, we were talking earlier about, you know, the people driving on the road. It's like, yeah, you know, we're upset in the minute, in the moment. Two hours later, we're not even thinking about it, right? I told you within like, seconds, I was like, Lord, don't let him get into a rate. Exactly. I went from. That's why you brought the return, Lord don't let him.

You're not, yeah, you're not trapped by that. No. But when you've given the best years of your life to someone and they cheat on you and they abandon you and they do a, like that's a deep wound. Yeah. When somebody kills your child. My Lord. How dare we say, well, you just got to forgive.

So what I talk about in the book, I actually provide what's called the Petty Framework. Yes. And it's sequential. And it's sequential on purpose because I believe that we get the sequence wrong. We say you just got to forgive and forget. Like, as step one. No. Step one is you got to process the offense.

Like give yourself space to actually sit with it for a minute. Like what happened hurt, why did it hurt? What is it that it told you about yourself and about the situation? What did it even teach you about God, right? Then you need to be able to express your anger to God, honestly, without filter. This is how I feel. This is what I want to see happen. After that, you got to trust God for justice because this is the, this is the, this

is where I think we also get it wrong in the church. Yes, it is true that God is a God of love and mercy and compassion and grace, absolutely. And the reason he's a God of love is because he's a God of justice. Yeah. Love and justice are two sides of the same coin. You cannot say you love someone while seeing them suffer and being like, I just love people so much that I can't do nothing about it. It's like, no, no, no. God is also a God of justice. He never changed his character from the Old Testament to the New. That's true. Trust God for justice. You don't have to take it on yourself, then you can retrade your resentment for rest because Jesus promises that if you come to me when you are weary, when you are heavy laden, I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you.

My yoke is easy. My burden is life. The last step, and this is the one we always try to rush to, the why is yield to love. When you get to that place, what healing looks like, and this is what I've walked out in my own life, when my mom's hospitalized, I'm there. We're completely estranged. My mother has spread all types of rumors throughout the family. She's said all types of things. But when she needs me, I'm there. Her bills need to get paid. They're getting paid, right?

Because I'm so healed that I'm no longer needing to see her suffer. Right? Like, I want her to have the best life she possibly can. That's what healing looks like is when I can yield to love. But notice that's at the end of the process. Yeah. It's not step one. Right.

And that's artificial. That's so true. That is so good. Wow, no, no, I'm not ready for this to be over. I'm not. But in closing, I want to ask you, this season, our, every season we choose a word to guide our conversations. And this season, the word is purpose. I want to ask you, what part of your purpose could have only been revealed after you stopped trying to hide the parts of your story that hurt the most?

Oh, gosh. Crystal, that literally is my purpose. God told me, he said, vulnerability is your ministry. And so my entire ministry is built on bringing to light the things that I would much rather keep hidden. So that other people can see an example of freedom, not in spite of it, but because of it. And so my purpose literally is that exact thing. Yeah, I want to ask you because you have been very vulnerable and open. How did you navigate the vulnerability but also trying to protect the person who offended you?

Do you understand? Like when there are certain instances where you're still trying to protect the person who may have hurt you, but you want to tell your side of it and your truth. But you still try to, how do you navigate that? Well, it depends on whether they're still in your life, right? So in my case, with my mom, we're estranged. That's one thing. Now, she knows. She's read the book.

She's seen the interviews and she knows. How did you even get to that point, though, to, like, just put it out there before she's new? I feel like, I feel, and it's so funny because I've tried to remember when is the moment I first shared my story publicly. I think it was, I was invited to speak at the, this is when Loretta Lynch was attorney general. I was invited to speak at a conference that she was hosting for states in the, you.

the juvenile justice area of criminal justice. And when I was standing in front of all these people, these are like DJJ secretaries from all over the country. And I was talking about the work I was doing at the time, which was girls who were in the DJJ system in Florida. I just felt compelled to share my story. Because at that time, I was at the chief executive level of an organization that served these girls.

And, you know, people look at you and they see you in the suit and they're just like, oh, she's just speaking from an academic extent. I'm giving all these statistics and all this stuff. So at the end, I just started to share the story of a girl who had experienced sexual abuse and physical abuse who had been sent to the principal's office who was told she'll never be anything. I just told all of this how she tried to end her life multiple times. And then I said, and I know that story so well because that girl was me. And I didn't know it at the time. But even now, I'm getting emotional. standing in that room,

it was like that was when the Lord said, this is what I've called you to do. You're standing in this room with all these legislators and all these administrators and these people who serve these kids. And when I walked off the stage, the assistant U.S. Attorney General came up to me. She hugged me.

This woman, I think at the time, she had a budget of maybe $5 billion or something. thing. And she whispered in my ear, she said, that happened to me and I've never told anyone. And there was a line of people standing after her that came up to me and said the same thing. And I knew then, this is what I was called to do. So that was the moment. And it wasn't pre-planned. It wasn't scripted. I knew that I said, this is purpose. And I didn't have to say the names of the people. But it was telling my story. Yes. Yeah. And something shifted. in this room full of government people.

This was not a church. Right. The entire spirit shifted. And so I think that's what it's about is just telling your story. I don't have to point fingers and say names, but this is what happened to me. Yeah, I love that. Thank you, Nona. Thank you for sharing your true.

Thank you for being opening because I know it has. It heals so many people. And it inspired me to even be open and more vulnerable. So thank you so much. And thank you for coming back. Guys, make sure you get the power of petty prayers by Nona Jones. Tell them where it's available and how else we can support you. Everywhere, everywhere books your soul.

So you can go to nona Jones.com. You can get it there. It's available literally everywhere. And I just learned that it'll be in Target as well. So you can pick up a hard copy there, Barnes & Noble books, a million, all the places. Amazing. Thank you so much. I love you.

I love you too, girl. Yes. Oh, this is so good. Thank you. Nona, thank you for being so open with us today. One thing I'm taking me from this conversation is that healing doesn't require us to deny what happened or rest through our emotional. or pretend forgiveness automatically erases the pain. Sometimes healing starts with being honest enough to tell God I'm still hurt.

I'm still angry and I need you to help me with what I am carrying. Sweeties, be sure to pre-order Nona's new book, The Power of Petty Prayers, How to Heal Your Hurt When You're Wounded, Weary, and Just Plain Mad, Out October 13th. And if today's conversation encouraged you, challenged you, or if it reminded you that you don't have to be, have to stay stuck in what hurts you. Be sure to subscribe, leave a comment, and share this episode with someone who may need that reminder to.

Until next time, keep it positive, sweetie. Ready for your next adventure? Etihad's global sale is here. Witness Nairobi's living traditions. Set sail on Phuket's pristine waters. Or let wonder be your guide in Kuala Lumpur. Book by Thursday and take off to over 50 destinations on sale. Travel from October 26 to March 27.

Book now at Etihad.com. Etihad, Beyond Borders. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana. Jeremy Colhain. Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast

where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. He gets right up next to the microphone. I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween.

Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Mike Yam. And I'm Trevor Sycamma. And together, we host the NFL fantasy football show. Are you ready to dominate your fantasy league? this season? Because if you aren't locked in with us on the NFL fantasy football show, you're already playing from behind.

Whether you're a first-time player or a grizzled vet chasing another championship would give you the advantage and the confidence you need to make every move counts. Listen to the NFL Fantasy Football Show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What up? This Jay Valentine, co-host of the

R&B Money Podcast alongside my brother, R&B legend, tank. Together, we've built a space for artists, and fans of R&B music to reminisce and tell the real stories behind the music. I have no money. I was hood famous. They think you're going to get everybody out. We lived in a project. Real love came out.

They're hearing the music and we had nothing. From Smokey Robinson to Mary J. Blige, B2K to Jill Scott. If you're a super dedicated R&B fan, this is where you belong. Listen to R&B money from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The World Cup is over. But if you caught the soccer bug and aren't sure what to do now, check out our podcast, Big Kick Energy.

I'm Cameron Dicker, the kicker from the Los Angeles Chargers, and I'm here with Timmy Tillman, current L-A-FC star player. So, we know a little something about kicking balls. Each week we'll tackle things like, who's winning the Premier League this year? What do you think is harder? Scoring a penalty kick or scoring a field goal? Join us each week for a quick chat

with your soccer-loving bros about the best sport in the world. Soccer. Just don't tell my coaches I said that. Listen to Big Kick Energy on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, what's up? I'm Tony Gonzalez. And I'm October Gonzalez. But you can call me Toby.

We want you to join us on our new podcast, No Safe Words, with October and Tony Gonzalez. We get real about marriage, parenthood, sex, divorce, and all the nitty-gritty stuff we all think about, but just don't say out loud. You're probably just going to be some rich guy and he's going to whisk you away. This is awkward. Listen to No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Did you think you were the only one? Like no matter what you did,

it was never good enough for your mother. I'm Jennifer Arnese, and this is the Black Mother Wound podcast, where we unpack and heal from the very first relationship that shaped us. We rush to accommodate other people when we have been hurt, and our hurt has not been healed. Listen to the Black Mother Woon podcast from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, and wherever you get your podcast.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.