Keeping Records - Fugue Chicken State (with Zoe Lister-Jones)

Episode Date: January 29, 2021

Actor, writer, director and producer Zoe Lister-Jones (How it Ends, The Craft: Legacy, Life in Pieces) creates a Golden Record to educate aliens on human sexuality, food, and reckoning. Also about the power of diffuse lighting. Zoe's Artifacts Liz Phair's Exile in Guyville (audio) Chicken (food) Michaela Coel's I May Destroy You (audio-visual) Mask Fashion (human ephemera) Jennifer Lopez's lighting package (human ephemera) Follow the show @keepingrecordspod Advertise on Keeping Records via Gumball.fm See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is a HeadGum Original. In 1977, NASA sent two solid gold records into space, so that aliens might find them and understand life on Earth. I send greetings on behalf of the people of our planet. And friendly wishes to all who may encounter this voyager. Now, we're making new records with our friends. Bonjour tout le monde. Konnichiwa.

Hola y saludos a todos. Assalamu alaikum. We step out of our solar system into the universe seeking only peace and friendship. We know full well that our planet and all its inhabitants are but a small part of this immense universe that surrounds us. Hello from the children of planet Earth. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Shelby, how you doing? Oh, no.

You've done something today that we should talk about. Yeah, I really fell today. You fell down with your body. I fell down in the house. I felt the house shake a little bit. I had headphones in, not to drag you, but the house shook a little bit from your fall. And I was like, oh, are we having an earthquake? It wasn't a big fall.

It was bigger than most. I, you saw, I have the new balance board thing in my, in my office. Right. And I wasn't on the balance board, but the rolly thing that it sits on, I tripped over and fully fell backwards. And then my back hit my chair and then I really like hit the ground my leg was like kind of bleeding I stood up and it's one of those times where you fall and you're by yourself and it hurts worse because you can't laugh like you're just kind of you could have laughed no you could have laughed you just have to stand up and be like well it happened and now I have to move forward like put the next foot in front of the other and it hurt so and then I like laid down for a little bit because I was like I'm in I'm in real physical peril something so much worse

than what happened to you happened to me okay your thing pales in comparison to my thing right so my physical pain and your yeah doesn't compare at all to the fact that I had to sleep on the couch last night because I couldn't fall asleep in my bed. So you slept on a cush, a cush place. I fell on a hard ground, hit my back on a chair and you're saying that's worse. Yeah, because your thing was so quick. Mine was sort of an hour played out over the, over hours. And then I couldn't fall asleep because I ate some ice cream and I was watching swingers with Vince Vaughn. We don't know how long this will last. I might have lasting physical trauma that will last decades. I might pass this on to my kids.

Do you think that you're going to pass falling down in your office onto your children? Just so I'm clear on what you think is possible. I'm not saying that I will. I'm saying it's not out of the realm of possibilities. Everybody, we are so excited. We have an incredible guest today.

An incredible guest today. She's she's an actor she's a producer a writer a director you know well i first knew zoe lister jones our famous guest today from being in the movie the other guys okay but now you might know her from one of her most recent projects we've seen her in sbu we've seen her in svu the craft legacy the craft legacy which she directed band-aid which she wrote directed and started i believe all three make some noise for zoe mr jones hi zoe hi did you love that rundown i was like i was gonna make some noise for myself um we sometimes we'll do like a like um we'll go like yeah we're scared we're overusing it yeah we think we're overdoing it but we wanted you to feel like there was like

a stadium well i think just make just make some noise and then and then like the deadening silence feels right for me it feels on brand it feels like the the Zoe Lister Jones experience project. Yeah. Zoe, Shelby and I met you almost a year ago to the day. Is that true? Wait, it's our anniversary. That's true. It's almost our anniversary. Annie.

Oh, my God. Wow. We met you at Lyric Hyperion in Los Angeles, California. We were living in Chicago and we came out to do shows. And we met you in there. And you were sat behind a couple that could not stop making out. Did you notice them? Wait, what?

You were sitting behind a couple. At that show. At that show. And they would not stop making out. They're making out the whole show. Oh, I vaguely, you know, this is sort of, this is also very on brand for ZLJ that like traumatic experiences or things that like other people find very memorable. I have zero recollection of, I think I just black out, but you are facing them because you are performing. Yeah. And I was, I was so engaged by your performances that their, that their sexual chemistry meant nothing to me. Every time we looked out into the audience from backstage, from onstage, it was just

two people who were so close to having sex. It was unbelievable, really. It's so exciting. Remember those days? And we were also worried about you. We were like, they're making out in front of Zoe Lister-Jones. They can't do this to her. But they could and they did. She doesn't deserve this. But they could and they did and you didn't even care. And I didn't even care.

If people are interested in foreplay around me, I co-sign a hundred percent. Like it's, and if they are willing to do it in front of me in a public setting where there's performances involved from other people, I think it's cool. Well, love is the greatest performance of all. Love is the greatest performance of all. And it's all a lie. Yeah. Yeah. And Phoebe Bridgers performed also at that show, which is why I was there. I mean, I was also there for you, but I came as her guest. And that is also, I mean, how could you not make out?

At a Phoebe show. At a Phoebe show. Yeah, if you got the opportunity to do it. I was looking for someone around me. And I do think of that show as a Phoebe Bridgers show. Because I remember asking Phoebe to do it and saying, you probably can't and shouldn't do this show yeah and she was like no i will yeah so down it was it was a that was that night was a blast but that's when we met you and it's been almost a year how has your life been since then globally oh my god incredible Yeah. What a year. Uh, no complaints. Like just like wouldn't do anything

differently. Um, yeah, just good vibes all around. It feels like as a, as a collective, just everyone's sort of like, yeah, vibing in such a great way. Um, you know, my year has been, um, like the trash fire that everyone else's has been i obviously like hashtag blessed grateful for all the things that i do have but um and that i and that i have had like the luxury of being able to be like creative this year and and um self-reflective and depressed you know all those luxuries to be morbidly depressed you made a fucking movie i I did. Well, I finished The Craft Legacy in quarantine and then released that in quarantine. And at the same time, I also shot a movie, which is now going to premiere at Sundance, which is awesome. We've heard and we're clamoring.

We're dying to see. We were talking about it before you got on. And that's called How It Ends, correct? Yes. That's so exciting. That's so exciting. We were talking about it before you got on. Um, and that's called how it ends, correct? Yes. That's so exciting. That's so exciting.

It's very exciting. How has that process been for you creatively to make, to make, to put out two movies during this? I mean, are you okay? We're just checking in. Yeah. Um,

you're into this friendship. We just want to say, are you good? Are you good? Yeah. A year into this friendship, we just want to say. Are you good? Are you good? Thank you so much. And these are my favorite types of friendships. Just a yearly check-in. It's sort of like a doctor's visit.

Very clinical, sterile. And it's good because this is right after New Year's. So we just always get to be like, all right, recap it for us. What went on? You've just reflected. Yeah. I mean, it was helpful like to be creative for me in this time. I like was processing all of my emotions through, especially how it ends. Like it's a movie that takes place on the last day on earth.

And so it's like it's not, it's not, um, centered in a, in the pandemic, but it's sort of pandemic adjacent. So it was a way for me both as like a writer and a director and an actor to be like dealing with all of those feelings through the work. Um, but, uh, but it was also like, you know, overwhelming. Uh, and, and there were many days that I was like, I don't think I can do this. Like, you know, because just like every day is a winding road, as Elvis Presley said. And I'm just kidding. It's Cheryl Crow.

It's Cheryl Crow. It's Cheryl Crow. I was going to say, Zoe pulled Elvis and we both pulled Cheryl Crow. But wouldn't that be amazing if I was like the person who had that like deep cut that that's actually an Elvis Presley original that Cheryl covered? That's not true.

I was going to say, I thought that was true. I just took you, honestly, I really believed you. I know. You could lead me down any road. You could say anything to Caleb right now and he'll believe you. Yeah. I like, just now I was like, who the devil set that? The power you hold with this movie.

I won an Oscar in 2020. Oh my God. She's manifesting. Oh my God. Yeah. I won it. I'm manifesting my God. She's manifesting. Oh my God. Yeah. I won it. I'm manifesting the past. Well, you don't know how, time is a concept.

That's true. It is. You said nothing to say that time is a concept. I said a lot. Time is a construct. It's also a concept. It's not tangible. It's just a concept. It's not tangible. It's just a concept.

Everything's a concept. Yeah. I'm actually a philosopher. Yeah. Look, Zoe, we didn't bring you here to watch us fight. We brought you here for something so much more important than that. We will fight, inevitably, because we're mortal enemies. Even though people online think we're dating.

Which could not be worse for me, by the way. I am already up against so much. Heterosexuality can't be a part of my story again. People really think Caleb and I'd be kissing. Anyway, what we brought you here for is we wanted to ask you, if you had your own golden record to represent humanity, your view on the world, what would you put on it? Well, I prepared a list. Like all good guests. Like all good guests. album Exile in Guyville, which was seminal for me as a too young woman to be listening to like

songs titled Fuck and Run and stuff. And I remember when that song like, I think I was like 11 when and I just there was a song on that album too called Flower that the lyrics are, they begin with. Every time I see your face, I get all wet between my legs. I want to fuck you like a dog. I'll take you home and make you like it. And I learned every single lyric. You knowing that at 11. Yes.

At 11 in Brooklyn, just like rattling it off like in the shower. Having it stuck in your head kind of sitting at the dinner table. Yes. Kind of like, what's going on over there? Well, my mom bought the cassette. Like, that's how I got it. Because my mom is like, cool. Um, she's not like, cool. She is cool. Um, and, and so like, it was a shared, it was a shared album that she was like, I don't think we should be sharing this. And I was like, I do. Cause I want to fuck somebody someday. And then I'll run or they'll run. I'm not sure who's running, but I know that this is part of the and Run that sticks with me most, and I want to know if you were feeling this part a lot at age 11,

there's a part of the song where she just says a couple times in a row, I want a boyfriend. Over and over. I want a boyfriend. I want a boyfriend. I want a boyfriend. Did that speak to you? That spoke to me deeply. Yeah. And it still does.

You know what I mean? That's just like, that's an anthem for the ages. Even if you have a boyfriend, you still want one. Like, you know, you're never not wanting a boyfriend. And like that whole album, i hadn't i mean my parents had split up when i was nine so like i understood that heartbreak and like relationships were terrible and um and that like the life ahead would be uh just terribly disappointing and traumatizing when it came to love and intimacy. But this album really nailed that in for me. So that was helpful to just be so hopeless at such a young age.

What's crazy to me about this album, and I didn't know this, I listened to the album in the past, but I didn't know this until today, was that it's a song by song response to a Rolling Stones album. Yeah. Exile on Main Street. That's crazy, especially because it stands on its own so much. Yeah, it's brilliant. It's a concept album, much like Time. Like Time is a concept. Thank you, everyone.

Time is a concept. Yeah. And I went and saw Liz Phair with my like when I was, I think, 12. And again, I've blacked out so much of my childhood and also last year. But like I remember us trying to go meet her backstage. And I think she did like walk out of the dressing room. And it was obviously so exciting that I have just a vague memory of it. Um, but she was, she was like such a,

um, yeah, a revolutionary new artist. I think for so many people, she likes spawn. I think she spawned so many careers and isn't given a ton of credit. Would you say she's the blueprint? Hey, I might,

I might, she could be the blueprint. I might. I mean, I think so many people, when you're like 11, 12, 13,

you latch onto things that are helping you process whatever you're going through your parents splitting up or being in the closet for some people never for me i was always gay but like whatever you're dealing with that age you latch on to some piece of media and you're like this is who i am the bad thing for me is that i latched on to pink's um portrait, a harrowing tale about a terrible divorce. My parents did split up, but it was like so amicable. They still travel together. Like they're fine. But I was sitting in my, yeah, they're like very close. And I'm sitting in my room being like in this family, but, and they're like, we're good. Like what's wrong with you? And I'm sobbing, just being like, daddy, please don't leave.

Like, the lyrics of that song, I latched onto and was like, this is my story. And it couldn't be less true. If my parents, like, were to really sit down and, like, ask me about it, I would have been like, oh, it's just like, I don't know. I guess, like, something to be upset about. I don't know. I just, like, it feels right. Yeah. Well, you're looking for drama.

Yeah. We still are. But at that age. I famously told my seventh grade teacher that my parents were getting divorced and they had not separated yet. Oh my God. You manifested it. Yeah. He was like, you can't say that if it's not true. And I was like, I mean, I just like sense it. I think, I think we all kind of know the vibe in the house. And, and he was like, don't. And then a year later they separated and I walked through the halls.

Nostradamus vibes. I walked through the halls like they are divorcing. That's amazing. Did you have friends who, whose parents were divorced? Like I didn't, I feel like I didn't have a you have friends whose parents were divorced? I feel like I didn't have a lot of friends whose parents were divorced. There was more shame around mine, but with braces, for example, which other people thought were the worst. I didn't have braces and I wanted them so bad. I feel like if cool kids' parents are divorced, then you're like, yeah, mine are too. I never wanted braces, but I, I did really want,

um, a retainer so bad. Oh, so bad. How you could like, like play with it in your mouth. I used to put fruit roll-ups on the roof of my mouth and just be like, this is my retainer. Wow. So you were pathological as a child is kind of what we're getting to. Well, I never told people it was a retainer, but it was like for me. Oh, that's sweet. Which I guess is pathological. I was like, this is just for me to know. If I need a retainer, I can make one for myself.

Zoe, did you ever get your parents in trouble at school in any way? Like by telling lies about them? No, I didn't ever get my parents in trouble no my parents were always like cooler than me so i was like the narc oh you were a little cop child i was the narc kid you're sitting you're walking around the house being like wrong that's so no i like started a curse jar a swear jar zoe yeah legit did they abide yeah i mean kind of they were like oh you're so lame like they were just always like what is happening my mom was always like you're going to become an orthodox jew like as your rebellion because there was nowhere else

for me to go you know like i couldn't do anything to be bad i cannot imagine you walking around the house as a child and being like me thinks i heard a cuss word that one will be five dollars and then like in the shower i'm like i'm gonna take you home and fuck you like a dog yeah yeah wait the the dichotomy yeah well this i think that the swear jar was like young. You know, it was like, I was a young hustler. You know, I was looking to make some, I was looking to make some bank and my parents were cussing constantly. Famously, my mom says that like my first sentence was, mommy, that asshole took our parking spot. That's adorable.

You want your kids, you want your kids to have moments like that yeah i hope my kids are almost explicitly cursing until they're like 10 my mom uh took our playstation from us once which i filed in my brain as abuse and i went to school and told my teacher that we were being abused no and they the next like period my brother and i were called to the principal's office and there were people from the state there to talk to us no like like division of child services and they were like so we got a complaint and i was like yes we're being abused and they're like can you describe it to us and i was like and i told them i was like we didn't do anything she took the playstation away now we're not allowed to play and they're like and then she

hit you and i was like no no there was a game i wanted to play it i can't i can't i had nothing to do i was bored for hours so my mom who was working three jobs and raising my brother and i by herself got called out of work to come and get us. And I can't, my mom's a very chill. She was not happy. She was like, now I'm going to physically abuse you. Yeah. She was like, well, your story is about to become true, babe. She was like, ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? You're fucked. Oh my God. Wow. But this isn't about me. It's not about me, Zoe. It's about the next thing on your records. Okay. The next thing on my records, chicken.

Oh, you're saying something with that one. Go on. Yeah. Period. Say more. Nothing else to say. We just move on. I would say that this is just very personal for me. I love chicken. You're speaking to someone who loves it. Caleb is a chicken fanatic.

I will eat an entire rotisserie chicken by myself in one sitting. Yes. And I'll do it happily. Yeah. You open the rotisserie chicken, you take off the top or whatever, you take it out of the bag. I don't know if you're this bad about it. you can't even get it cut and put on a plate you're like eating it as you take it apart oh my god yeah yeah it's crazy because you want to also you want to eat it while it's still hot with the skin on it you know this skin is so good i like on set it's embarrassing but i i am like i, I'll eat like a full chicken, like at monitor.

Yes. You know, but that's what she has to do to make it through the day. And the industry needs more people. And that's my legacy. And I will say, you know, factory farming is terrible. I eat organic rotisserie chickens. I hope that they're pasture raised, but I got it. I, I, it's, I, I, I'm an old blood type. I can't be vegetarian. I've tried. So this is it for me. Chicken.

Now you're talking, you're really talking Caleb's language. So Caleb started the year saying, I'm going to be a vegetarian in the new year. I am a vegetarian. So listen, I understand the chicken thing i like imitation chicken i understand it's not the same i'm not gonna fight you on it because i agree with you i know where i thank you which is that i'm having sort of the second rate citizen of yes chicken yeah but it gets me by i've been a vegetarian since i was nine. Wow. I don't. Thank you. Wow. You don't know how bad she needed that, Zoe. Thank you for saying wow.

Yeah. Wow. Wow. My mom is, so it was kind of easy. Right. I take it back. Thank you. You don't know how bad I needed that.

She's a bad vegetarian. She's a bad vegetarian. Actually, my mom, well, my mom once got a parasite. Gross. And it took so much out of her that when she woke up in the night she's been a vegetarian since she was 14 she woke up in the middle of the night my brother had a bucket of kfc in the kitchen she hasn't had meat since she was 14 and she ate the whole bucket and went back to bed and she was like i was in a fugue state i don't remember deciding to do it

i don't think i had control over myself she's like i just went in there saw it and my body was like need half have yeah she just took it all in that's how zoe and i live every day yeah parasite or not we're in a fugue chicken state we're digging into rotisseries at the camera but caleb said he was gonna be a vegetarian to start the new year and it was never permanent it was always just a little test right a phase but then he was like he comes into my room he says listen zoe mind you before she tells you this i made it 11 full days okay well wow he needed that speaking of what he needed that so he comes into my room he He says, listen, I ordered chicken. But that's okay. I know myself.

I need to be able to have these little cheats. Yeah. In order to make it. And he said, so I'm going to have chicken tonight. Good. But you have to hold me accountable. I can only have one meat meal a week. I like this.

Okay. You'll have to tell me that you're doing that because that's the only way I can hold you accountable. Next day, comes into my room. Would you like to go on a drive with me? I said, where are we going? He says, to pick up food. Zoe, don't listen to this. Zoe, turn off your headphones.

I said, what did you order? And he said, well, are you going to come for the drive and i said where are we and he said i ordered chicken again i needed chicken i love it he said i had a hard day and if i don't let myself have chicken today i'll never keep up with this you know what he knows himself the vibe zoe tell me tell me you understand what I'm going through. Tell me that you feel this way. 100%. No one's making him do this. It's his choice.

100%. And every day I ate a lentil, I felt a small part of me die. How many lentils were you having? Just one a day. Just one. That's why it didn't work. That's why I had to go back to chicken. I was like, this is what vegetarianism is, right?

I was eating so many fucking lentils. I was eating so many chickpeas. I was eating so many like just terribly gaseous foods. Just like, and I was so, I was so like dissatisfied. And then I feel like my hair started falling out. We can get deep about this. And then, and then I was like, it's over. Yeah, it's over like my hair started falling out we can get deep about this and then and then i was like it's over yeah it's over your hair started falling out if my hair fell out at any point in this process i would have quit it would have taken very little for me to quit

okay this is important logistically you're gonna put chicken on your golden records are you gonna put on for the aliens to see the fact that we ate chicken like the like record of us eating chicken or are you gonna send them chicken for them to eat no i want them to have a hot rotisserie chicken a hot rotisserie okay i love that is there any kind of seasoning like do you do like the rosemary one or just any rotisserie chicken i i just do the plain salt and pepper. There she is. That's iconic. And oftentimes I feel like those rotisserie chickens have been sitting out days in these supermarkets and it has never stopped me. No, because it can't. You have to be in courageous pursuit of the things that make you feel alive.

That's right. That's right. That's absolutely right. Okay. Chicken, what else would you put on your record? Up next is I May Destroy You. Okay. Which if we want to talk about 2020,

it's like that show was 2020. I mean, that was the greatest piece of cultural ingestion I feel like that I partook in, in 2020. And also like brought up so many just like important questions around consent that like, I don't know. I'm just so grateful to Michaela Cole for like being on this planet, but also for like creating something that would open up those questions for so many people watching it. And, and like, I feel like I've like

done a lot of, I don't know, ruminating on consent. We sort of all have, especially in like post me two times. And I feel like she was bringing shit up that I hadn't even really faced yet for myself. And also like tonally to be able to do that in sort of a comedy and like in a way that was so like stylistically bold and cool. And she's so fucking good in it. I'm just, and then she fired her whole team.

I'm just like, yes, Michaela Cole, 2020 energy yeah she's brilliant like truly in every sense of the word brilliant yeah well the show is also a like a feat like she i was reading that she wrote 191 drafts of it no yes she wrote 191 drafts of it and it manages to be like you said a comedy but also she directs stars she wrote it without a room she she tackles these issues that like everyone right now is thinking about and every like you know uh entertainment suit person in the world

right now is like we need a project about the me too era or whatever they do and she did it and she did it better than anybody right yeah and like completely on her own terms which is so hard to do um and then just like yeah just fucking fired her team and it's just like i'm a i'm a free agent you know like come get me oh yeah what do you want the aliens uh and this is kind of a big question zoe but what do you want the aliens most Uh, and this is kind of a big question, Zoe, but what do you want the aliens most to take from it? Like you, if, if I'm an alien family and I just watched or group of friends,

whatever alien group, and I just watched, uh, Zoe's on Zoe's recommendation, I may destroy you. What do you want them to walk away from it with? Um, I feel like the aliens should know sort of like about the reckoning yes i would like for them to know about the reckoning and then to sort of uh i don't know

uh take it forth into other realms and not need to have one in the first place right then avoid it avoid it this time yeah maybe in other realms there is no reckoning because, you know, they're like goddess worshipping elsewhere. And we are just, we just fucked up at the beginning of time. I hope. Yeah. But no, yeah, I guess that. And also to just, I don't know, I guess to see like also just i want them to to see like what entertainment should look like i want them to see the cream of the crop you know i mean while

they're eating that chicken to have something to really yeah have something to really sink their teeth sink their teeth into metaphorical teeth and yeah Or if they don't have teeth, like they're just putting whatever, they have to put it on their skin and then it sort of like. It disintegrates into them. It disintegrates into their skin. Yeah. She said something, this is just a quote that I read about it and it like is so gorgeous to me, but she said, if you're alive to reflect on a dark time and keep returning there,

it means you survived it and can keep going there until you've got what you need from returning. And that's what she says about the show. Isn't that like, she's doing interviews that are more beautiful than anything I've ever spent hours writing. What is that about? Yeah. And that is like the thing about that show and her being like in every cell of it, of its like creation and execution is like like comfortable in it is so profound and is obviously so resonant to right now and she is such an amazing example of of what that looks like and how to do it successfully she's unreal unreal before we think we have to take a break. We have to take a quick break and we'll be right back with Zoe Lister-Jones. All right, we're back.

Zoe, what is the next thing that you would put on your record? The next thing on my record is mask fashion. Yeah. Are you doing it? Do you think you're pulling it off in a big way? Obviously? Yes. Every day. Yes. Iconic. Uh, but I, but I'm not doing it in the way that other people, I feel like busy Phillips is highly committed to mask fashion. You know what I mean? And that is like, and I watched that and I'm like, like all right i see like gauntlet gauntlet throne um but i did my own part i've like bought some matching mask dress looks yes i have a matching mask bucket hat look whoa is it attached or separate no it should be attached

We'll cut that part I feel like it would be complicated if it was I'm just trying to picture it We'll cut that part, don't worry It doesn't need to be It's like snake skin It's like a snake skin pattern Not actual snake skin

But it's like a snake skin pattern, bucket hat And then snake skin pattern mask I'm glad it's not a snakeskin pattern not actual snakeskin but it's like a snakeskin pattern bucket hat and then snakeskin pattern mask i'm glad it's not real snakeskin not because of the way i feel about snakes which is that they should all be dead but because putting snakeskin on your mouth feels disgust sexual feels sex oh you oh that's where you were going okay different for you guys you know it can be both ways yeah it feels sensual to me to have like dead sandpaper animal skin on my mouth nothing gets Zoe going quite like the idea of a carcass on her lips I, I, I, Armie Hammer's cannibalism did not, I hadn't fully processed it when I made this list.

And I think it should be an addendum that the aliens are going to have to process that. If we had to cope with it, they have to cope with it. Honestly, truly. Yeah. Cause 2021 shot now already with this cannibalism, this Armie Hammer cannibalism thing. Now we know that sort of someone a lot of people wanted to sleep with is like cutting off toes for eating. Daddy needs to drink their blood.

Back to mask fashion. Did you see Lana Dely's like lace mask no but it's not sounding right it's not looking correct that couldn't stop anything no stop it couldn't stay it almost would make more water yeah it's like yeah make more water. It blew my mind. I mean, she blows my mind, but that really blew my mind. She does. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Like people, like, um, the masks that have, um, like mesh, so you can see the mouth. I saw a lady walking down the street with that the other day. And I was like, it looks, I don't want to see your mouth. You know, like her mouth was not a selling point of her face. I think she was, she was better off the other way.

Yeah. Within yourself. Yeah. Some people are really harmed by masks and I'm one of them. I'm one of them. Because I have amazing lips, cute dimples and a cute little nose. I'm being destroyed by masks. I agree with you.

I agree with you. I got, I got a tooth gem. Um, and that gorgeous. And nobody, yeah, I was waiting.

I sort of like took a pregnant pause there to, I was waiting. I got a tooth gem. I was going to ask you a question about a while. Thank you. Yeah. Cause I sort of ended on an upward inflectionlection but that was sort of me being like anyway i got a tooth jim and um wow oh my god thank you nobody's doing it like her yeah thank you so much and um and nobody can see it because of my mask. Yeah. Is it on right now? You got what?

Wait. Let's break down what just happened. I said, is your tooth gym on right now? And Shelby said, I got new teeth. Which isn't true. It is true. At the beginning of quarantine, I got my permanent teeth. Wait, this happened in quarantine? Yeah.

My teeth have not gotten their due. They're new. Wow. beginning of quarantine i got my permanent teeth wait this happened in quarantine yeah my teeth have not gotten their due they're new wow shall we okay i've knocked out my teeth from falling and oh my so this is a recurring thing you have a you have tough tough balance yeah oh no and you knocked your teeth out canceled yeah kind of a bummer. But for like a year and a half, I had temporary teeth. And then I got permanent teeth. And then immediately they were like, cover those up, bitch. But that's sort of exciting because then it's like they get a real premiere once we're out of quarantine. I'm really getting to know them before anyone else does.

Yeah. And by quarantine ends, you could have a tooth gem on each of your new teeth. On each, oh. So are those, I have a question about them because I've been wondering, how does that work? How do they put it in?

Does it ever come off? Are they permanent? It's braces glue. It stays on for a year. And it does, so you don't have to like take for a year and it does it. So you don't have to like take it out and put it back in. Um, and it's really just for me. Do you like it?

I know. I love it. It makes me, it gives me like so much, um, excitement by myself every day, you know, they're gorgeous, but I worry that I would be constantly like picking at it with my tongue. Like get off there. Well, it's the new sort of retainer snap, you know, which should I get one? Yeah. Famously. I love a retainer. Yeah. Should we all get bedazzled retainers? All three of us? Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. What are we talking about though? Oh, mask fashion. fashion yes men aren't doing it per you per everything men are behind ben affleck is is he he's doing it in the way that he's so consciously

not doing it that in a way that's I feel like now I'm like, I don't want to wear a mask. No. Ben Affleck is doing it. No, he's doing it in a way that is so truly wrong that it's fashion. You know, like how sometimes a runway, you're like, who would wear that? And then you're like, what's he doing? He puts it just right here and smokes under his mask. Oh, that's so Affleck. That's perfectly Affleck. And he like drinks his coffee under it. And so every picture of him in a mask has it covering just his nostrils and it's like

tucked up. And it's not even pulled down like everyone else is doing it. It's pulled up so that he can. And to me, that is men's fashion. That is men's mask fashion. Thank you. In that it doesn't exist. Or that it really does. It's mask fashion. Thank you. In that it doesn't exist. Or that it really does.

It's all utility. It's all utility. There's a picture of him doing that. And I stared at it for so long. And people were like sharing it being like, he's so hot. And I was like, under what circumstance? This couldn't be less hot to me. Oh, God. Cis cis straight women what are we doing

get it together um yeah no every like uh quarantine date that i see on the street which i want to like i like slow my walk you know obviously um keep my six feet, but I want to know more about what's happening. Um, and, and almost everyone, the man's not wearing a mask. The woman is because it is like, it's a, if I feel like men don't think it's masculine or sexy, um, and that's just plain wrong. Yeah. It's so sexy to wear. We take a really hard stance on this podcast that masks are sexy. They are sexy, and that's why I wanted to talk about mask fashion. But I think that male mask fashion is really the thing that we should be focusing on. Yeah, we should be pushing that more.

Yeah. Like, what does a man need for it to feel sexy? You need it to say, like, you know how there's men's body wash that smells like garbage or something? It's like, it'll be like so stinky you'll still smell like a man. Do you know what I mean? You need that kind of energy.

Men's musk. It smells like sweat. You're like, what? This is soap. But they, you know, men want to smell bad, I guess. Yeah. Yeah.

I won't take that. I won't take that for gay men. I'm terrified that if we encourage straight men to get into mask fashion, like too quickly, we're going to see a Navy pinstripe. Straight men can't not help themselves. They'll put a pinstripe on anything. They think a pinstripe is like the pinnacle of trying and it's bad if that's what

it takes you're willing to have that happen zoe yes i wouldn't i would extend the pandemic for three years to not see pinstripe um do you think if like preppy boys weren't so conservative that they weren't wearing masks they would wear seersucker masks oh yeah can i say something brave he doesn't know what seersucker is no i absolutely do and it would be so hot to me if i know what seersucker is because i know who hot guys are and look he's like they're in the local acapella group. Ever been to a barbershop? That quartet? Huh.

Some hot guys with mostly bad politics wear seersucker. And it, yeah, it's done. It's done it for me before. Caleb wants it, boy. But don't you think there's also a contingent of like Dallas gay men who are seersuckering? Yeah. Like there's, I feel like that's like a movement. Dallas gay men. Dallas gay men who are seersuckering. Like there's like, I feel like that's like a movement. Dallas gay men, Dallas gay men say more about, about the Dallas gay scene. Cause I feel like you have insight.

You know, I'm projecting only about like, I just, I just am like envisioning like a seersucker short with like a, a sockless van. And they're like, they're like in like Provincetown for the summer, but they live in Dallas. Yeah. Wow. I also want to say there is one gay man in the world that met Zoe Lister-Jones in Provincetown. Who is listening to this podcast and going, not that.

Absolutely correct. Yeah. He said, I hope he's a listener. We were singing live karaoke. What's your karaoke song? Go to. Oh, you know, you know, what's funny is like, I do like to sing, but I will not sing karaoke. Um, ever.

You're too good. You're too good for it. You would never bless the audience. Got to pay for it. No, it's more that I just like I'm too, I feel too embarrassed. I like get very shy. But you do them on your Instagram. On my gram.

I know. But then I get to like choose the take. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm too much of a perfectionist, and I'm too insecure about, I don't feel that I'm a real singer. So I like to be in control. You're not just going to give your voice over to a moment

and not have any kind of control. Well, because also a lot of the songs that I would like to sing, I can't really sing. I would like to sing What's Love Got to Do With It at karaoke. I've tried. It's not, it's not pretty. Well,

I, I don't know whose range that is. Tina's only anyone else gets up to do that and they're not hitting it. Right. You know, unless you fully change key. Yeah. Which is hard.

Cause you got those backing vocals on the backing track, which I don't like. Um, yeah. So I don't know. what's your go-to oh boy i am always trying to sing number one with somebody else i'm always trying to karaoke sure because i'm like if i get up there i'm gonna here's what it is i want to be a good singer so bad and i'm just not there if i get up to karaoke alone i'm gonna try too hard and look like a fucking idiot. So I got to go up with a friend. Sure.

And I'm trying to do All My Life by Casey and JoJo. Okay. Yeah. Very good. Yeah. Okay. I will usually veer pop punk because then I don't have to worry about sounding good. How are you?

You're just whining. You will sound the most like the song, the worse you sound. So you can just be like, oh, I'm actually just doing a bit and I'm trying really hard to sound like the song. I like that. Where are you? And I'm so sorry. And people are like, wait a second. She's nailing this. I once went on a date and it was really bad and we won't get into the whole story of the date, but he, I went to the bathroom. He took me to a the whole story of the date but he i went to the bathroom he took me to a karaoke bar bad and he um i went to the bathroom to call a friend to see how i could get out of this the rest of this date and i got out of the bathroom and he had paid the dj to uh put me on next and he picked the song and i'd never heard it before and I got I didn't really think I had a choice in hindsight I did but I was

21 and I was like I guess I just have to do it like there's no choice like he paid five dollars yeah I was like he paid for it um and I got up and tried to sing a song I had never heard before it was worst thing possible it It was rap. And I was sitting there just being like, I couldn't keep up with the thing. I didn't know what was happening. And this girl who was dancing to the whole time that I was singing, which was really nice of her, it was, you did a really good job. And I was like, you deserve the Nobel peace prize. Oh my God. You're like, do you want to go on a date with me tonight? I was like, great. What are you doing later? I'm trying to get out of this thing.

Wow. I'm sorry, Zoe. I cut you off with that question. You were going to tell us more about your record. I'm so rude. Okay. The last and final thing on my record is J-Lo's lighting package. Wow.

What do you mean? Well, wow. What do you mean is, um, working title of my memoir. Um, I would buy that. That'd be hot. Yeah. Look into it. Wow. Exclamation point. What do you mean? It's wow. On the upper left. What do you mean is at the bottom, smaller yeah yeah yeah um j-lo is to me she's the most beautiful woman alive to me correct and i'm wowed no what do you mean like wowed by her just radiance beauty skin everything it'sational. I've also been told that she obviously comes with her own lighting package when she's on camera. And that is not like shade. That is, yes, that's what everyone should do. She posts pictures of herself without a lighting package. She's still beautiful. But I just love that. I love, that's me.

I want that for myself. I want to be a person who comes with a lighting package. Well, whatever one she has is working. She's always like glowing. Stunning. She's not just pretty. She's beautiful. Stunning.

Glowing. Yes. I've watched every single one of her reality ventures i watched all of her american idol i've watched all of world of dance um and i just i watch it for her skin speaking of army hammer he just backed out of that movie with her and it and i wonder what i mean backed out of that movie like Right. He just got, okay. He's not in the movie. But can you believe that he almost got a bite out of J-Lo's skin?

Yes. He almost got a little bit of J-Lo. He almost got a taste and got paid to do it. If there was anybody whose blood I would want, it would be hers. Yeah, we can all get on board with that. Like a full J-Lo transfusion. No, no, we don't want it for her. We don't want it for anybody.

No, daddy, no. You could have the Zoe Lister Jones lighting package. That's right. We'll invest. Yeah. We'll be a part of the venture. I mean, at this moment,

it's just, it's a ring light. Um, and that is, but I think that, you know, soon it'll be sort of like multi-pronged and there'll be a crew. And if you guys want to be a part of that,

um, we do that experience. Yeah. Yeah. I want to hold, I want to hold a mic or like, uh those white sheets they hold so the light goes right A balance board. Yeah.

We'll do those. I'll help, you know, just like when you extend the poles and whatever. I'm good with whatever job. I'm pretty handy. Caleb. Great. Oh, very. She's very handy.

Yeah. The other day I fixed a drawer. Wow. So are we hired? Very impressive. So you're hired. Um, and I actually want to return to wow.

What do you mean? Is that wow. What do you mean is actually what I feel about JLo's lighting package? Because it's clearly was like, when I heard it, I was like, tell me more. What do I need to acquire?

And, and how many people will be there with me? Clearly we have two. At least. And we can recruit some friends. This is going to be a Forrest Gump running through the desert situation by the time we're done. And it's just going to be you extremely well lit with a bunch of us behind you running with cameras. We will help.

We will do anything to get that right i want the aliens to know that regardless of the lighting package but i want them to know that there are ways that you know that that it can be enhanced as well that that is that that's a possibility for us all do you want it to be like lights off first when they open it and then turn the turn the lights on, the lighting package on. And they have a mirror and they're like, oh my God. Like the aliens get such an incredible surge of self-worth. Yeah. It's like a music box almost.

They turn it, it opens. It's a mirror. Lights are off. Yeah. And then second, two seconds later, boom. Now they're hot. Yeah. And you two are there with like bounce boards.

I think Caleb's holding a microphone. I'm not sure why, but there's some sort of audio component. The microphone's for me, I'm going to say. Okay. I feel like this inclusion. Christina Aguilera, you are beautiful. Don't get me started. Don't make me sing.

Don't make me sing. Don't make me sing. I'm shy. Do you guys want to know a story about that? Sorry about Christina Aguilera is beautiful for a second. Go. I once was at like a party that where she was performing. There was like a surprise performance and and and so Daryl my husband and I went up to the the front of the stage he's more that person where he was like it's probably gonna be someone big we

should just be waiting for them so that there's not like a bum rush or whatever so we're waiting and it's fucking Christina Aguilera so he was right and um and she sang beautiful. And, of course, I was like front row, just like singing every word with her, like full volume, like right underneath her. No matter what they say. And then verse two hits and she passes me the mic. And I did not know verse two. Not as well as verse one. No. What happened? I just sort of. Not as well as verse one. No, what happened? I just sort of...

This is me on that date. I just sort of mumbled my way through and she immediately was like, nope, and grabbed the mic back. No, baby. She said, thank you. No. Yeah.

She said, don't send a friend. Did you get the chance to talk to her afterwards and explain? Absolutely not. Absolutely never. And I never will. What do you think after that? Christina comes out, goes to the front row and says, hey, I just wanted to touch base about what happened.

Yeah, can we circle back? Have you never completed the song? Hey, I wanted to take this offline. Were you a plant to embarrass me that I gave you the mic? Were you a plant? I just want to, I'm not asking to embarrass you. I gave you the mic? Were you a plant? I'm not asking to embarrass you. I'm just asking so that I don't make the same mistake again. Yeah.

Because I do this in shows. Yeah. Are you, Zoe, in the iconic, historic, well-documented feud between J-Lo and Mariah Carey? Are you team J-Lo? Absolutely. Okay. That's good to know. Yeah. How about you?

Oh, yeah. I mean, all those videos of Mariah Carey being like, I don't know her. That's all about JLo. That reminds me of the Victorious ones. The Ariana Grande Victoria Justice drama. Oh, sure, sure, sure. Have you ever seen that, Zoe? No. Ariana Grande was on a Nickelodeon show called Victorious.

Yeah. And there's all these, yes, of course. And there's all these interviews of the cast. And there's one of the questions, it's like, and it's very clear Victoria Justice has a problem with Ariana Grande. Like that's the undertone of the entire interview. And there's one question where they go, who's the most likely to break out into song and it clips to like every single person responding and everyone's like ariana grande ariana grande ariana ariana and then it gets victoria justice and she goes i mean i think we all sing yes it's one of the most amazing interviews i've ever seen oh my god i'm gonna google that the second this podcast is over i gotta circle back to your answer on J-Lo and Mariah Carey and tell you that I'm on your side.

I am on J-Lo's team. But I will say, if we're talking about who's winning the shade war of it all, Mariah Carey's winning. The shit she says or has said in interviews about J-Lo, there's one clip where she's like calling into a new show i don't know why they did this but they're like uh what do you think about j-lo saying she gets eight hours of sleep a night and mariah's like well i usually only get three but you know singing is my whole thing and acting's more her thing and if i had the luxury of not singing my own songs i'd probably be getting a lot of sleep too. Oh my God. Yes.

It's like iconic. That is iconic. And JLo this year, it wasn't great though. The, the like sort of Beyonce rip off. She sort of lost some points there, but she's the,

I feel like you, including the lighting package on your record is giving aliens to me in my head. Two gifts. One is the gift of human perfection. Now, you know what it looks like. The second is advocating for yourself. Cause when you know what it looks like the second is

advocating for yourself because when you go to a show and say i will be bringing my own lights that's jlo saying i know what i need and want that's right if if mariah carey won the shade war with jlo would you say eminem won the shade war with mariah carey with warning zoe do you know about this no zo. Zoe. Is this a spinoff podcast called Shade Wars? Because I listen every single day. Zoe, we'll have to send you

a song. Oh my god. Mariah Carey released Obsessed. I actually talked about this with someone last night. Why are you so obsessed with me? Obsessed by Mariah Carey about Eminem eminem released the most devastating diss track something that truly every time i've heard it countless times every time i listen to it my jaw falls to the floor oh my god truly just how are the sex part

tell zoe the sex part what that he he nutted early and ejaculated prematurely and busted all over your belly and then you almost started hurling yeah he says he says if we didn't have sex how come i came early and then he says he says i bet you he said like don't you dare say it isn't true because if i'm embarrassing me i'm embarrassing you maybe you do but if i'm embarrassing me i'm embarrassing you don't you dare say it isn't true as long as it's you're just like what the fuck how do i not know about this listen girly for surely you don't want me telling about yeah that it he also calls her girly which okay um but he wow crazy i truly was talking about this last night that's such a dedication to a distract to be willing to say in order to take you down

i am willing to admit that i don't fuck good yeah that's right he's like he's like you don't want to admit that we slept together that's fine i know that we did and i'm willing to bury myself to prove this to you and then he releases like parts of voicemails from her oh my god what when was this whenever obsessed came out like like months later oh 708 somewhere around there wow and it is zoe what would you do if someone released a diss track about you how would you respond what will i do let's manifest it how will i respond um you know i mean i would i would like to respond with a track in return i think that's always a fun thing sort of an eye for an eye um and yeah i mean

one can only dream would it would it affect you because i've always said if someone put out a diss track about me that was bad it wouldn't bother me but if it was good if they got like the shit that i don't like about me you know what i mean oh i thought you meant good production wise i would be devastated if it was like a bop i don't care if you like nail me down but if i have to like kind of be like wait a second this is pretty good bummed out but if it was a bop it would also be kind of great right because you would you're the muse yeah i just want to be at the center of someone's world i don't really care in what context yeah if it's good or bad or yeah yeah

okay yeah i think we've got your records all filled up the only thing we have to ask you is one more question which is getting pretty. What are you taking off the record? Yeah, what would you delete from humanity? And you don't have to say war. Famine, poverty. Poverty, any stuff like that. You can say something less intense if you want. Okay.

From humanity? This is not personal. It can be. Yeah, you're part of humanity. It can be anything you want, really. Just what do you think aliens should never know about us? It's like so embarrassing that you're like, get it gone. Oh, I'd like to delete all texts I've written that have not received responses.

Which I have not deleted, though. I know that that's also in my control. I could actually delete those off my phone. But I like to just remember, just to remember, just as sort of like a constant reminder of, you know, the pain and suffering that is being a human. And then if you ever reach out to them again, you get to look, you get to say things like, oh, never mind.

I know exactly where I stand. Yeah. That doesn't happen for me. I see them and I'm like, oh, never mind. I know exactly where I stand. Yeah. That doesn't happen for me. I see them and I'm like, let's give it one more shot. Have you ever, Zoe, sent a text that didn't get a response and then something happened in your life that that person then texted you? Not about the thing you texted them, but a renewed conversation. Oh, absolutely. That has happened a number of times.

What do you do about it? How do you feel about that? I act like nothing has happened and I respond. I respond like, thank you. You know, I'm like, I'm so grateful. That's so brave of you. Would you prefer someone just ignore that that first text happened? Or do you want them to be like, never saw this and then go into their next thing? I prefer a never saw this. I prefer a so sorry. Um, I prefer, I prefer an acknowledgement

of the pain and suffering that has been inflicted on me. Um, and that will live in my body forever. Yes. But you know, if they don't want to too, I'm like, well, okay. You know, as long as that, as long as there's something to sort of like relieve the pain, but then generally those people, I'll then respond. Like those people will like text again and I'll be like, okay, we're back. And then I'll text and then I'll, and then nothing, you know, I would never have you say it on recording, but I want you to just send me a list of every name, phone number and address of these people. I'm going to handle it.

And we'll send something. Are you going to send J-Lo's lighting package? Yeah, I'm going to. Well, I'm going to tell them I'm sending J-Lo's lighting package. I'm sending Steve Bannon's lighting package. We're sending something that they, and it's going to be labeled J-lo's but it's going to be steve bannon what they unwrap is something much more it's just like a human shit um yeah i never did

that because i grew up in brooklyn but i know people who grew who grew up like leaving like human shits on people's doorsteps that was like a thing in the suburbs do you know about this we're from the suburbs i've never done it but i do know that it happened i like a thing in the suburbs do you know about this we're from the suburbs i've never done it but i do know that it happened i had a friend in high school who um the big thing was if someone wronged you you could be like and i'll change her name you could be like hey justine i need you to go piss on this person's car for me and she would do it that was her big that was like she only did it for close friends though she was like the high school fixer i love that i want to be justine like now yeah but there was a thing of like you shit in a bag you put that on a doorstep you light that on fire that's right that was the deal because then

you'd have to put the fire out step in shit that's the big prank of it all. Right. So good. The prank isn't the bag of shit. The prank is the stepping in. And they're disgusting for that. I've always wondered, are people shitting in bags? Because that's mortifying. To shit in a bag is horrific. So are they doing that?

Or are they getting like dog shit off the lawn yard? I think Justine is doing it. There's a Justine in every community. Yes. Shitting in bags. If your community should be so lucky. Everyone has a local angel who shits in bags for those who need it.

Yeah. And that's one of those things that we're looking to endorse more in communities. Yeah, definitely. Zoe, you have a movie coming out. The craft is already out. What do you want to send people off with? Where can they follow you? What should they be looking out for?

Oh, they can follow me on all the social media platforms. But yeah, How It Ends will be coming out hopefully to a streamer this spring. So keep an eye out and check out The Craft Legacy. How It Ends will be coming out hopefully to a streamer this spring. So keep an eye out and check out The Craft Legacy. It's available on the Apple TV or whatever, on demand. It's available on Amazon Prime, you know, all the things. It's out there, baby.

And get ready for my disc track in response to... Yeah, we're going to write you one. We're going to put one out about you. If you guys could do it, then that would be great. It'll be hard because we're big fans, but we'll conjure. We'll talk to some of your enemies. When you get us that list of people who have not responded to your texts, we'll get a list of things that they don't like about you and then we'll come back with a disc track.

We don't have negative things to say. We'll find people that do. But we'll find them with a diss track. We don't have negative things to say, but we'll find people that do. But we'll find them. Awesome. We'll find some negative. I'm so glad. Yeah, yeah. Just start doing that work in 2021.

Absolutely. I think we've had enough positivity in 2020 and now it's time for some negativity. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Insurrection and Armie Hammer's cannibalism. It's been too good. It's too good, you know? Yeah, we need to bring it down a notch.

We had a really good start, and now it's time. Yeah, now we're going to start lighting shit on various, you know. Doorsteps. Doorsteps of ghosters, of contemporary ghosters of Zoe Lester-Johns. Zoe, thank you so much for being on. Thank you so much for being on. Thank you so much for being on. Thank you for having me. It was so fun. You're literally an iconic guest. We struggled to think of someone that we were more excited to have on. Thanks for doing it. Thanks for having me. And I'll

talk to you guys in a year. Okay. See you next year. That was a Hidgum Original.