Keeping Records - Timelessly Cool (with Jill Gutowitz)

Episode Date: March 18, 2022

An episode that will undoubtedly be used as a resource on LGBTQIA+ allyship and gay rights manual for the alien species forever into the future. Writer and world's biggest and last remaining Pinkberry customer Jill Gutowitz stops by to explain to us (and the aliens) that adjusting a lesbian's clothing is actually a homophobic slur, how to get a boyfriend through AIM as a young closeted resident of New Jersey, and that the looks exchanged by hot young cheerleaders in an early aughts cinematic masterpiece are actually peak gay. Jill's Artifacts AIM (Technology) Freaky Friday (2003 Film) The glances exchanged between Kirsten Dunst, Gabrielle Union, and Eliza Dushku in Bring It On (Cinematic Moment) Pinkberry (Food) A Taylor Swift Avatar On Twitter Telling You To Die (Experience) Follow Jill on Twitter and Instagram and buy her new book, Girls Can Kiss Now, out now from Simon & Schuster.  Watch the video version of the episode Follow the show @keepingrecordspod Advertise on Keeping Records via Gumball.fm See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is a HeadGum Original. In 1977, NASA sent two solid gold records into space so that aliens might find them and understand life on Earth. I send greetings on behalf of the people of our planet. Friendly wishes to all who may encounter this voyager. Now, we're making new records with our friends. Bonjour tout le monde. Konichiwa.

Hola y saludos a todos. Assalamu alaikum. We step out of our solar system into the universe seeking only peace and friendship. We know full well that our planet and all its inhabitants are but a small part of this immense universe that surrounds us. Hello from the children of planet Earth. Well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well, I've studied this and spent a lot of time thinking about this. What do you think is going on with the temperature in this room? Well, I think it's a good point. Be honest with me.

Well, here's my actual genuine take. Okay. Confusing the temperature. Yeah. Because I think when you said that, I was like, oh, is it hot in here? But then I was like, in a way it is and in a way it's not. I feel like I'm in a rainforest. Yeah.

In the biggest way it is. Yeah. I would think in the biggest way it is. It feels like I'm in the rainforest where temperature is different a lot. How do you think you would fare in the rainforest? Which one? I can't imagine there would be a massive difference for you.

No, there would. Depends on which animals are in there and where it is and if it's on fire presently. Okay. What are the different ones? If it's on fire, I... Assume that none of them are on fire presently. Okay. What are the different ones? If it's on fire, I... Assume that none of them are on fire. Or the exercise. I don't think I would fare well in the Amazon.

Why? They have really crazy snakes. It's big snakes over there? Nip. The craziest... Our producer, Anya! Anya. Where's Anya going?

She turned down the AC. Turned down? She turns off the AC. She turned down? She turns off the AC. It gets hotter. We're in a sauna. By the end, we are... Your shirt's see-through. My shirt's dark, dark green.

I could have brought it up before we recorded, but I wasn't actually expecting a change. I was just curious what you thought. I feel as though I'm in a rainforest. Casey, do you feel a tot? It's a little toasty in here. Casey gets it. Shelby, tell me about your life.

Well. Tell me what you want to tell me about your life. I lost my wallet the other day, which was a really bad thing to happen to me. Yeah, I was implicated in that. Yeah. Shelby called me probably. No, I called implicated in that. Yeah. Shelby called me probably... No, I called you once. I called CG a hundred times.

Shelby called my roommate, couldn't get a hold of her, then called me, so now I'm implicated in the wallet situation. Said, hey, did CG take my wallet? I said, no, why would I be? I wasn't involved. Anya, come on in. Anya, come on in. Cross the camera.

Anya, wave. Wave as you go. Anya doesn't want to be on. So I got implicated in the wallet situation. Anya's not a fan of the podcast. I forgot to tell you. Oh, no. Not a little freak.

Not a little freak at all. Not even kind of a little freak. No. But I did something really old, Shelby. Not present me. I won't take credit. Okay. Did something really old Shelby not present me I won't take credit okay did something really smart

okay which was I had an old wallet that I put one credit card that I don't use in now I lost my wallet now I have my old credit card so while I have to turn everything off and like where I'm not out of the game I can pay for stuff still. Isn't that kind of smart? I will say, actually, that is really smart. Thank you. That is actually really smart. So now I'm like, I got time. I'm not stressed.

I got gas today. It was a million dollars. Yeah. You know how it is. I do know how it is because I will say gas was normal. Here's the timeline of events. Gas was normal for a long time. I bought a Jeep.

And then gas went up. And the same day the headlines were like, gas prices through the roof skyrocketing. Nobody can believe the gas prices. The news was like, get a Kia Soul. I mean, truly. Wranglers are out. Kia Souls are in. Wranglers are out, out, out.

And Kia Souls are hot, hot, hot. Back to you with weather. My gas price went doubled. It went doubled. How much is a full tank for you right now? Like $100. And it's really bad

for the environment what I'm doing. $119. Yeah, you drive a bigger car than I do. And I just got a big car. Don't tell them that. It's bad.

I drive an electric tiny smart car. I drive a bicycle. I was at the grocery store the other day. Thank you. You're welcome. Which one?

I would call this sort of between the nautical one. When it comes to the nautical one and the one owned by the big bad. Yeah.

This is sort of in between the two of them. Erewhon. No. Okay. Okay. No. Okay.

I'm wondering if you know what I'm talking about well I know nautical and big bad are very clear yeah I was like got you and then there's one

that kind of takes best parts of both CVS exactly no um um but

first of all they were oh Walmart you think that's the crossroads between nautical and Big Bad? Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Oh, I would never go in there. Big mistake. One time when Shelby and I lived together, I watched her take a fingers full of sprouts from the fridge, eat it it raw and go, yum, yum, yum. And I'm not kidding. That was the day that I was like, when the lease is up, I'm moving out. I was like, I'll say it was about the cat, but it's about the sprouts. They're crisp. They're cold.

They're nutritious. That's another thing Shelby does. When you try to go to a meal with Shelby, you'll say, what are you in the mood for? And she'll say, something cold. Yeah. That's what she gives you. Sometimes I want something cold. So I was at the grocery store.

The line was long, long, long, long, long. Crazy. They could not get it under control. That happened to me at Sebulon the other night. There was four self-service registers. I was only buying three things. I said, that's for me. Yeah.

Then a guy was going through, and he had a cart full of like 36 items, and a lot of them were produce that he'd that's for me. Yeah. Then a guy was going through and he had a cart full of like 36 items and a lot of them were produce that he'd have to weigh out. Yeah. To me, you're not eligible for self-checkout.

You have to talk to a person. Yeah. That many things, you're required to have a conversation before you leave the building. You made that up for you. But I think that that's true.

36 items can't do self-checkout, you're saying. I think that's... What's the limit? What's the number for you? I think it should be sort of like the express, where it's like you have 11 or less. 11 or less? Yeah.

Okay. I'm just trying to understand your rules so that I can engage with your thoughts. You think you can have as many items as you want? Right now, at this moment, I'm in a space of just hearing your rules, and then I will give a judgment. Okay. So 11 or less for self-checkout. Keep telling your story.

I think, or 12 or less. It has to be under 20 for sure. No, that's interesting. Well, 12 feels like an even number, which I feel a little bit more in tune with. 15. What about 15? I actually, this is something that has haunted me my entire life. If you stand for something, you'll fall for anything.

You were willing to go to 15. No, I wasn't. I was going to say that I have this problem with volume, where I want all volume to be on an even number, but when it's at, like, 16, I'm like, well, why not 15? 15 feels more even than 16. Yes. 15 feels way more even than 16. 15 on an even number, but when it's at like 16, I'm like, well, why not 15? 15 feels more even than 16. Yes. 15 feels way more even than 16. 15 is an even number.

So you would go to 15? No, I would stick at 12. Your principles are always for sale. I would stick at 12, but if I had said 14, I would have gone to 15. Do you know what I mean? So I was annoyed with this guy, but I was sort of looking around, just sort of like, ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh, wait and wait and looking around, looking if there's anything around for me to buy now that I'm just sort of sitting around waiting. Well, that's what they want you to do, by the way.

And there was hot Cheeto lip balm. And it made me happy. I got some of it. Is that what you were going to say? It made me actually think about mortality and welcoming it back into my life in a more powerful way. How do you mean? I wanted to be dead. Sure.

And I... Sure. There's so many things about it. I like hot Cheetos. It's a good snack. It's fun. It's crunchy. It's hot.

It's cheesy. What not? What not to like? Yeah. Except for the culture around it. Why would I put that on my lips as a balm? Yeah. I've never eaten one and been like, damn, my lips feel amazing.

It would be kind of crazy to put some of that on, though, and then give someone a head, right? Infection. You get an infection. That could be spicy in a good way. That could be... Would it feel good? We don't know. I have a pretty good feeling that that's a quick way to have to go to the doctor.

I was so infuriated by the idea of Hot Cheeto Lip Balm that I thought about it for an entire, like, three hours in a row. It's insane, by the way. I'm on your side. Would you do 13 items? No. I don't believe you. 13 would be a terrible number of items. It's unlucky.

I do not believe a single mother walks up to you at Sprouts. Hold on now. You are in charge of the self-checkouts at Sprouts. A single mother walks up to you. Okay. A single mom who works too hard and loves her kids and never stops. She has 13 items. She's in a hurry.

She's got a baby on her chest, baby on her back. She's dual strapped. 13 items in the cart. You count them. If anyone counted my items at the self-checkout, I would punch them in the face. 13.

Oh, no. She came up 13. You would impose the rule of 12. Now what do you do? I genuinely think if you're the person working the self-checkout, you're the one for when the light goes off, you have to go over there. I think it is an eye test. I think if you're the person working the self-checkout, you're the one for when the light goes off, you have to go over there.

I think it is an eye test. I think if you're counting. You eye test it and you see 13 items. I wouldn't know it's 13. No. If I eye tested it, I would be like, that seems roughly like the right amount. You eye test it. It's 15.

Do you turn her away? I say, go talk to someone and they'll help you out. You shouldn't have. If you're a single mom, two kids strapped on either side. You shouldn't have to. Ever the politician, no. You shouldn't have to check out. But that wasn't the question, was it?

No, you shouldn't have to. You're going to work a job. Now, I don't even understand why we like self-checkout. And I love it. Shelby Wolstein flips on policy regarding Sprout's self-checkout. You saw it here first, folks. I, first of all, I don't know why we like self-checkout. I like it.

I prefer it. I'll do it every time. I am now an employee. For what reason? Why wouldn't I let someone else do the job? Answer the question. I will say at the nautical one, they take the basket for you and they do it all for you. And I prefer that to a self-checkout because I don't have to put something on a belt.

But to put something on a belt, it's like I'm already checking out, you know? Yeah. So all that's to say – A veteran comes up to you. He's a veteran of war. Regardless of how you feel about it, he can – Get on my knees, suck his dick. Just kidding.

What if that wasn't true? Our guest today is a writer from New Jersey. Her writing has appeared in publications such as The New Yorker, Vanity Fair, Vulture, and more. She lives in Los Angeles with her partner and a very small cat. Her book, Girls Can Kiss Now. Which is true legally also. It's true legally that Girls Can Kiss Now is her debut essay collection. And it's out now!

We are so excited for our guest today. She's talented. She's funny. She's severely online. She's severely online, and she's been DMing both of us in really, really sexy ways. We can't say that. Yes, you can. Can't say that.

You already did. Casey, we can't cut that. Jill's a friend of the pod. Casey, we can't cut that. Jill's a friend of the pod. We're so excited for our guest today. Please put your paws, fins, and flippers together for our close friend, Jill Gunowitz. Hi, Jill. Hi. My old, old friends from birth, actually.

Yeah. She'll be longer than me, though, because of her age. Right. We are, what a hundred days apart Jill uh how how are things things are good things are good I'm actually sitting on a very unstable chair right now which I I have to say is making me nervous it broke moments before this and right before we got on my girlfriend and I were flipping the chair over and screwing it back. And there's a piece sitting here that I just found. Oh my God.

Oh my God. I'm just, if at any point, I quite literally drop out of frame. Casey, put some ominous music behind that. I actually broke a chair the other day and it really, really, really was not a good vibe for me. I had a bad time with it. Oh, I've broken some chairs.

I was sitting talking to people. I was in the middle of a sentence and the chair fell. That was bad, but it fell so slow. And also like every face that I made was like very perceptible. Like it was like it wasn't fast where I was just like, I hit the ground. It was like the chair first like hit and then slowly tilted back and it rusted out all the way. And I really, really did eat shit. Jill, I have a question for you. Um, you seem to me like someone, and again, we're close. You seem to me like someone who has multiple chairs in your house. Why not change the chair out? out honestly it was just that it happened

truly one second before i got on oh my god timely queen she said i will not be five seconds late to sit in a stable chair no and i think it's also like there's definitely like my girlfriend and i between us both there's definitely some toxic masculinity in this house of like the like like the lesbian urge to just be like i got it i got it i fixed it um so we're just gonna see i had the i'm sorry to say i had the craziest urge to ask you who's the boy and who's the girl i'm obsessed every time every time i see a gay couple i think of that. What? Who's the boy and who's the girl is so funny to me because straight people ask that.

But you also ask that. I'm not asking. I said I had the urge. Jill just said they both wanted to fix the chair. They're both the boy. Yeah. Yeah, we're both the boy. They said it couldn't be done. Two lesbians, both the boy. They said it couldn't be done.

Two lesbians, both the boy. I actually told Jill before the recording, which I don't usually tell our guests and just let them assume. If we say anything homophobic, we're kidding. And Jill said, okay. Wait, you have a brand new book out. I do. Wait. Wait, stop.

Stop joking around, Jill. You're here because you have a brand new book out. Can you stop joking for like 15 seconds so we can talk about something? Yeah, sorry guys. I do. Wait. Wait. Stop. Stop joking around, Jill. You're here because you have a brand new book out. Can you stop joking for like 15 seconds so we can talk about something? Sorry, guys. I thought we were doing a comedy moment. No. It's a big serious moment for publishing. No, this podcast isn't even meant to be funny. What? Tell everyone about the book

so they can go buy it. I dare you. Okay. Well, if you dare me, it's called Girls Can Kiss Now. It is my debut book of personal essays. I would say it is an even blend of humorous, analytical essays about film and TV and also a coming-of-age tale of my own embarrassing life. I am obsessed.

And when are we making it into a movie, do you think? Very soon, very soon. I've actually been talking to Steven Spielberg. Yeah, and who do Shelby and I play in it? Yeah, who do we play? I think you guys, well, I was going to say, Caleb, you could play me or my girlfriend since we are both the boy.

I'll fix the chair. Was that good or no? Killed it. Okay, cool. I'll play, like, what, the cat? Yeah, well, she's a part of it, actually. Okay. So we can play the bookshelf.

Oh. Look at the bookshelf. It's in the background. Yeah. I don't know if I'm hot enough. No, stop. That's the kind of shit that Hollywood in the background. Yeah. I don't know if I'm hot enough. No, stop. That's the kind of shit that Hollywood wants us to think, but that's not real. Look at it.

You could be the bookshelf. No, honestly, like, look at the bookshelf. Jill's like, Jill's like, get me off. No, I'm like, look at it. Move, look. I see the resemblance. Oh, my God. Thank you.

Oh, my God. I screamed into the mic. You screamed. I spiked, I spiked, I spiked. You did spike. Fuck. Wait. Huh?

Do you want to, I don't, you know I don't like bringing this up, but do you want to tell, do you want to tell Jill why we brought her here? Oh fuck. We brought you on. We brought you on to the podcast for a reason. Oh no, no, no. We're sending stuff to space. We actually doing it okay yeah we were wondering if there was anything you wanted us to send when we sent our package your record kind of thing as

a record like as a record of humanity wow that's that's a lot to take in and i was actually super underprepared i have about five off the top of my head though. Okay. That'll work. That'll work. That'll do. That's no worries. Something I feel like I would love to send to space. Is that the format? Is that how I should start the sentence? Yeah. You can say it however, literally say it however you want. It's your episode. Literally, if this whole episode you're like, I don't want to talk about that. I actually just want to insult you guys or something crazy. would be like we beg and that's the episode babe i okay so something i feel that is important to me that i would that i would send to space

um some memorabilia is uh all of my like aol instant messenger chats um yeah fuck fuck you would release those i would for posterity like i think that it is important to record um i was so nasty like so mean and i feel like coming of age in the 2000s i thought you meant nasty sexy. Oh, no, I was getting there. It was like a thing. I was in middle school and I knew what you meant by nasty. Yeah, no, like me and other girls calling each other like skanks,

like that kind of nasty. But then, so that's more of like the like aim conversations. But then once you get into the chat rooms, that's where it gets, that's where it gets nasty. Age, sex, location. Yeah. Some lying, I'm sure, going on.

Did you ever find out that you were not in a group of friends from someone's like AIM profile? Wow. Yeah. That's like, that just like blew me back in time yeah like all they would put like initials or something did you ever like think like oh i'll be in this and then it would be like oh i guess okay yeah no like in in someone's um is it was it their profile is that what you there was the am buddy profile and there's the away message. The away messages would usually like have some call out to something clicky.

Yeah. But the buddy profile is when you would be like, this is my boyfriend's initials and the date we got together. And then. Yes. At the time, boyfriends. Yeah. Right. At the time, it would be like, Justin, heart, heart, heart, Justin.

He cheated on me while I was at summer camp whoa you shouldn't have gone out of town I mean give him a break I have a vivid memory of a it wasn't AOL

but I have a vivid memory of a Facebook message between me and a girl in my class that I was trying to date okay and I was it was like it was like, hey, Katie, do you want to go to the movies on Friday night?

And this is literally word for word because it's seared. And she was like, sure, sounds like fun. And I was like, oh, wait, don't you have a boyfriend? I knew she had a boyfriend. I literally, this is such drama. This is exactly how I am happening. She was like, yeah, I don't think he would care if we went to a movie.

And I was like, well, I kind of meant not just as friends I mean and she was like oh yeah I mean he wouldn't like that I mean this is this is how I was doing heterosexuality yeah no but I feel like everything about aim was like so ham-fisted like even like the like away messages of like excluding people and being like brb hanging out with samantha lindsey and aaron only yes hit the cell hit the cell if you need me and then everyone else like jill would look at it and be like oh my god like why are they all hanging out without me there's no mystery i'm not samantha erin or lindsey my life is over actually exactly um did you ever i i well there was also like the culture of like there's two things i have in my head one is the culture of like to talk to someone

else to talk to something like the the chain the the game of telephone that existed within AIS. Thank you. You would, like, see someone online. You'd be like, oh, Alex is on. So you'd be like, I'm going to message Robbie. And be like, do you know, like, who do you like? So that you could be like, I kind of like Robbie. And then, like, try and get, like, that to happen.

You would be like, oh, that's crazy. I kind of like Robbie. Or you would be like, who do you like to, like, the person you liked? And then they would be like, I don't know, not anyone. You'd be like, me either, lol. of like like Robbie or you would be like who do you like to like the person you liked and then they would be like I don't know not anyone you'd be like me either lol me either I actually don't I've never I've never liked anyone either or been liked yeah um did any this is gonna make me seem crazy uh did you guys ever create fake ones? No. Oh, yeah. What? Thank God.

We used to create them all the time and be like, like, we would then keep doing the, like, who do you like of it all and all of that from, like, this now anonymous. Yeah. No, totally. I went to a school that, like, there were were like um I don't know a hundred people in my entire grade like really small school and I we would still like do this thing of like inventing a fake screen name that was like new in school and yeah I'd message somebody I'd be like I'd be like hey oh this oh, this is Erin. Again, I'm going to use Erin. And they would be like, what?

Yeah, I'm new here. I'm actually starting next week. So who do you like? Tell me, like, trying to get the tea. And who is Erin to you in real life? Yeah, the chokehold that Erin had on you in middle school, apparently. Oh, my God. She was so hot, you guys.

We can't talk about her. No. We can't talk about her no we can't talk about leaving Erin out of it you know what now I'm like really having flashbacks oh my god

okay there was the naming people in your profile or in your away message that was like on the nose you know you're excluded

but do you remember when people would put like the same quote or like the same little they would be like it would be like the same lyric or something and you would be like they talked about that do you know what I they would be like it would be like the same lyric or something and you would be like they talked about that do you know what i'm talking about

or it would be like an inside joke that they all just put in they stole that thank you yeah yeah no like if somebody put up like the same fallout boy lyric as you and you would just be like okay that was literally my thing that was my you stole valor from me you wore an army uniform to the mall that's equivalent i remember stealing my valor i remember with my space like having the top eights i found it to be really cool and i like did that thing where you could code it to be like a top 24 or whatever i was like i don't want anyone to be left and then someone very cool took out top all together like they did oh my god and take it out. Oh my god. And it was quite genuinely

the hottest thing that's ever happened. To be like, I actually don't fucking care about this. I can't tell you guys. Shelby, we might have talked about this.

Joe, I know that we haven't yet. I, like, two or three weeks ago, I archived every Instagram post I've ever made because I was just like, I don't know, kind of,

I'm in kind of a weird place lately and I'm tired of being perceived a little bit, but also crave it desperately. And so I took down all my Instagram posts. As you might know, he unarchived them. I didn't. Only like 10 of them. You go look at my profile.

But what I'm trying to tell you is in the same way of taking away top eight, you would not believe, and I was not doing it for attention, literally the exact opposite. The number of people who messaged me and were like, okay, hot girl reset. People were so like magnetized to this. Yeah, no, it's hot. There was something so powerful and like so unattainable to me

about someone being like, I actually, I do not need the top eight. Whereas I was like, how many can I put in here? I want everyone to be my close friend. Yeah. No, it does feel like a timeless, like a timeless hot slash cool factor to like not want an online presence at all. Like of any age, like now back during MySpace, like if you were

like, yeah, I actually don't need this. I don't need a top eight. I don't need anyone to have me in my top eight or like, I don't need an Instagram presence. don't need anyone to have me in my top eight or like I don't need an Instagram presence don't need to be interacting timelessly cool couldn't be me effortlessly timelessly hot could not be me I really I don't have what it takes I know me either I wish I did I crave yeah no I also was just thinking about like you know that experience of like when you know somebody that somebody that like you like is gonna like show up at the bar or the party or whatever and you're like there and you're trying to not be like oh shit like i'm here before them and like i'm definitely not looking for them i used to like do that but online like waiting for my crush's like um door slam on aim to happen

like just loser shit and then would like message them be like oh my god hey i just got online too right before you what's up like obsessed i'm sorry go ahead no i just i had a the door slam was visceral to me because there was also i had a friend who her internet must have been fucking bad like always in and out and so she was always signing on signing off and her sound wasn't the normal door slam door creak or whatever. Right. But it was, do-do-do, uh. Do-do-do, do-do, uh.

And if I had sound on my computer, it was truly like for the entire time I was logged on, just do-do-do, uh. Do-do-do, uh. Because she would sign on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off. And I was like, okay, okay. And now anytime that song comes on, I'm like, god damn it. Like, log off, Megan. The day they do that on Hurdle, you're going to fucking clean house.

I totally forgot that you even changed the sounds. I don't think I was on aim. That's fucked up. I'm sorry. That's fucked aim. That's fucked up. I'm sorry. That's fucked up. It might be. It's fucked up. Wait, maybe you are like timelessly cool.

I don't know. I don't know. I'm trying to figure it out. I met someone who I – this past week I met someone who – I don't want to say her name because I don't want to make her feel weird. She wouldn't hear this. Anna Delvey. Anna Delvey. Also Anna't hear this. But it's somebody who. Anna Delvey. Anna Delvey.

Also Anna Wintour. I was out with the Annas. And no, someone who I would say is famous and who I've been like internet friends with. We met in person for the first time. And Jill, she told me, I didn't think you would be like fun. Oh, wow. She was like, I didn't think you'd be outgoing is what she meant to say but i was like what kind of energy am i giving oh i remember okay is it is it like because you're

like online at all because i feel like i i've definitely met people who have like an online presence who are like super fucking weird in real life you know like maybe she was assuming that you were like funny online but then couldn't couldn't get it irl couldn't get it yeah i think she explained like because i immediately was like what the fuck yeah please explain i was like fuck you and she no she she totally was like no it's just because you're like kind of dry online sometimes i thought maybe you'd be whatever and she also did clock me appropriately because we were talking about going out i was like i'm going to Zebulon at midnight tonight.

And she was like, that does not feel like you. And she's right. That's not me. I'm going through something. It's sort of the new Caleb. I'm going through something. It's sort of Caleb 2022. That's not important.

Jill, when you say crush, were you crushing on girls at the time? No. Wow. I was like stupid. I don't know. I mean, I, I, I really feel like I didn't know, no, until I was like 23 and I was like actively like pursuing boys at the time. And I think I just like, yeah, I totally just like, didn't know. I mean like looking back, there's so much I can point to obviously where I'm like, Oh, like this friend i liked like that but i think i just didn't know that that

was an option like i literally had not i didn't like hear about lesbians until i was like for sure in high school or middle school like new jersey well i i'm curious famously pretty straight very straight jersey i'm curious if you were, I feel like it's, it's half and half when I talked to, uh, lesbians who were trying to date guys at that time. Were you,

were you, did you find yourself trying to date guys who later turned out to be, uh, gay or were you more dating guys that were straight, but were like people you'd maybe be buddies with now? I think that, well, the thing is that like,

I really never had a lot of luck. I think like like they knew or something like they were always they always saw me as like the buddy and I was like throughout like middle school and high school being like like why am I always friend zoned like like all these guys always think that like I just want to be friends and like no one ever likes me like that which is so funny because then like when I actually like did like start like dating like men like obviously I didn't like them I think as speaking of middle like in, in middle school terms, like, I was not critically thinking about any of the people I was pursuing. Like, it was like, this is a guy who I guess I should try and date.

Totally. And they're not someone I would be buddies with, and they're not someone that's gay now. They were just online at the time. Yeah. It was like proximity. Yeah, either proximity or someone was like, they kind of like you, and I was like, I guess. And I never thought to think, like, okay, do I? Like I was just kind of like, okay, sure.

Yeah, okay. And then it took until later in life to be like, okay, do I like people? Yeah. I want to say something that I'm actually scared to say because I thought this was like an experience that was maybe normal. And my girlfriend, I said it to her pretty recently, and she was like, that's serial killer shit. Like, I don't know. I can't connect to that at all. So I want to know if this is like an experience that anyone else in this world has.

Because I had absolutely no connection to any boys at the time and would truly pick them at random, like we were just saying. Queen. Yeah. Slay. Slay Queen. to any boys at the time and would truly pick them at random like we were just saying like yeah yeah um slay um I I would literally like sit with my like best friend Taylor and like look through the yearbook before there was like online profiles really and we would literally like point to somebody and be like like we would call it shopping and we'd be like maybe him I know he doesn't have a girlfriend and he's like kind of cute and like he's in our class i think literally just like shopping is the shopping is the problem before that i was like okay like yeah like you gotta look at them somehow you gotta get them all the only thing i can imagine worse than calling dating shopping is maybe calling it hunting but shopping is pretty fucking crazy yeah but you were a kid

literally like we were like putting the pieces together of like well what makes sense and then i would like literally like forge a connection with this person and be like i like luke that's it i like luke and then and then luke wouldn't like me and i would be like what the fuck like what the fuck i What the fuck? I literally bought you out of the yearbook. Yeah, I literally pointed at you and then decided it was going to be you. Okay, I guess something's off kilter. I went to all-girls school, so I didn't know any of the boys.

We only knew in middle school from dances or going to the movies in a group hang, or if somehow you got a hold of each other's AIM screen names. I think that's why it was such a big part of my life. Yeah, it makes sense. Because we were like, okay, like this is how we talk to them. And then you would go in like a group date to the movies and everyone would have to be like matched up. And if it was an odd number, it was like one of the most chaotic experiences you could imagine. I think the – go ahead, Jo. No, I was just going to say, well, that well that's interesting the like that aim was the big connector well because we didn't have like i didn't

have their yearbook i think that would be serial killer stuff if i if i got hold of their yearbook and i was like okay let's get in there like that would have been only if like a friend had a brother but like but so for us it was like you either meet them at a dance but then you would be like I think some of them might not be there like or something or bar bat mitzvahs

when you were 13 that's when you really got to know people yeah when I was 13 that's actually Caleb you don't know this that's a really sad poem

what when I was 13 is it yeah oh I'm reading a lot about bat mitzvahs right now. Why? It's for a thing.

Same. It's for a work thing right now, and I'm learning a lot. You can interview me. I've wanted to text you several times. Hasn't done it. But I don't want to be a burden. The hard part about, like, Jill, you were saying that you forced a connection with Luke and then he wouldn't be into you. That's really devastating.

That's, like, the most devastating, like, when you do endeavor to change everything about yourself for someone and they still don't like you. That's awful. That's really tough. I mean, that was, like, I mean, and most people grow out of it, I feel like, by, like, 17 or so. I think people grow out of it. It was very much into my early 20s where I was, like, I did everything you wanted and I'm still not in. What's going on? Yeah.

No, I definitely, I feel like I had like gay delayed adolescence. So like even after I was doing that for like men, which I didn't even like or connect to. Yeah. Then I would like meet a girl and be like, holy fuck, like I'm feeling all these things for the first time. And then if I didn't like something that she liked, I would just decide I liked that thing because I don't want to lose this. Yeah. I gotta have this. This is good. If this goes away, then what do I have? Yeah. Right. So yeah, I would actually say I got over that pretty late in life. Last month. I actually just last month decided. I just closed that chapter with my therapist she said I think

I think we beat I think we beat the odds Joe what do you want the what do you want the so like okay imagine that we get all of your

your messages your AI your aim messages and AIM or AIM both yeah no worries so we get all of those

a big transcription of those we send them to the aliens they get them they somehow know how to read them No worries. So we get all of those. A big transcription of those. We send them to the aliens. They get them. They somehow know how to read them. What do you want them to understand about humanity through these messages? Okay, see, I actually feel like this is a really easy way for aliens to, like, understand human beings because everything was so ham-fisted at the time like we were just saying the thing all the time whether it was an away message or a profile or our conversations of just being like you know I just feel like they could really easily piece together unlike now with like inside

twitter jokes amongst like a group of truly 14 people which like just like obscure moments on twitter that pass by in a day and then it's gone. Right. Like they could look at these messages and be like, okay, so Shelby was messaging this person and this person was, you know, fielding these questions about Robbie. Oh, oh, she likes Robbie. You know what I mean? Like it's just like simple. Right.

Like if you read stuff now, it's going to say things like, some of y'all think you're doing something, but it's really not it. And it used to just be Caitlin is a skank. Exactly. That used to be so easy it used to be like i'm hanging out with these friends you can text me if you need me lol and then like and kiss me through the phone with like seven stars around it right that's the other thing is there was truly like eight songs out at the time and so like it was like a really good snapshot of culture at the time. I think we have to take a break, but to send us to break,

what would you put as your away message right now? Right now, to go to break? Hit the cell, X. Oh my God. Cool energy. Cool energy.

Hot girl Jill. Hit the cell, X. X. Welcome back. Jill, you have escaped by the skin of your teeth something. Jill, you have no idea what you used to do a segment here. You have no idea what you have gotten away with just now. And we had to get rid of it because it was ultimately so embarrassing for us.

But we have a different segment that we do want you to do. Which is called Delete It. Basically, we want to know what's something so embarrassing in all of humanity that you want to delete it from the records entirely. Before we even start. It doesn't have to be any of the big stuff. It doesn't have to be big stuff. It does not. You don't have to save the world right now.

You just have to save like one the big stuff. It doesn't have to be big stuff. It does not. You don't have to save the world right now. You just have to save, like, one person from something embarrassing. Yeah. Okay, so, like, when I first started thinking about this, I was thinking about, like, the idea of compulsory heterosexuality. But I think that I want to narrow in on something within that sphere that has bothered me so immensely for so long, and I feel like it needs to be called out and ended like finally um when straight women are like with their lesbian friend or with any of their

friends and they're like they like grab I don't know if you've had this experience they grab your sleeve if you're wearing like a blazer or a jean jacket or something and they're like cuff the sleeve cuff the sleeve and they like make you roll up the sleeve because they say it's better. And this makes me angry. And I also think that this is like kind of a slur. I think like if a lesbian is wearing a suit jacket, do not tell her to cuff the sleeve. This is a slur. Do you know what I'm talking about though or is this another okay and it's like that and also specifically like uh straight women will wear a like leather or

denim jacket over their shoulders and not put their arms in it yeah you know what i mean yes and that and that really bothers me too and i have have like a straight sister. My straight sister. Thank you. She's very hot. I have one too. She's like a very like hot femme version of me because we look very similar. So she's always like putting a jacket over my shoulders and being like, no, no, no, like this, like this. And I'm like, no, like the arms go in the sleeves. Like I'm about efficiency and comfort. Yeah, lesbians need to be tactical.

It does not work. No. I'm literally not interested in looking like that. Like, I, you know what I mean? Like, I want to be comfortable. So for me, like, I need to delete this, like, forever.

Like, if one more woman tells me to cuff my sleeves, like, it's hateful. I think, I will say, that whole rant would have been so problematic if you didn't have a straight sister. But because you have a straight sister, I do feel like you're allowed to speak on this. Because you love someone who's straight.

And you're just speaking on something that bothers you. That's beautiful. Right. And I don't want her to feel, like, othered or, like, gross or, like, you know, like it's normal. Yeah. No, yeah. But it is something that I need to call out. Telling a lesbian to cut their sleeves is a slur. It's a slur. It's normal. Yeah. No, yeah. But it is something that I need to call out. Telling a lesbian to cuff their sleeves is a slur.

It's a slur. That is so funny. The jackets over the shoulder thing is such a thing. It also doesn't, it does not make sense to me. I don't understand it. I don't understand how they stay. I think my shoulders are sloped wrong. Same.

If I try to do that, it will fall. I need to do something. I know. I have like the lesbian hunch. I'm like, it's simply not going to stay up. And I don't know how it's staying up for other people. It feels wrong. It feels like they have fashion tape in there or something going on that's making it happen. And I don't want the wizardry. I want the shirt, the jacket, like the jacket. It's a jacket with arms. Right. And if I wanted a cape, I'd buy a cape. Thank you. Yes. And I promise you I'm not buying a cape. I really thought you were going to say, and I promise you I want a cape. No, I don't want a cape. I don't understand them. Not a cape, but like a cloak, like a hooded. I could get a cloak. Actually, I couldn't because, and Not a cape, but like a cloak. Like a hooded. I could get a cloak.

Actually, I couldn't. Because, and you know this more than anything, that's actually not true. You're going to feel like this was me calling you a bully. And I don't think it is. I think you would just be honest with me about this. If I wore a cloak, I would look like the Hunchback of Notre Dame. Now, why would I be implicated in that?

I was going to say you'd look too much like Little Red Riding Hood. Because you have true Rubik's Little Cheese and kind of a jolly presence. I think if I wore a cloak, people would be like, oh my god. Back to the clock tower, bitch. Back to the clock tower, bitch. What are you doing walking around down here? I think I would be... I genuinely think... Back to the clock, bitch!

If I was in a cloak, someone would literally kill me and they would be celebrating. You shouldn't be down here! Because it would be heroic to have killed me. The townspeople will cheer when we take your life. Back to the tower! If I walked down the sidewalk and still were in a cloak,

I would get murdered. That's how I feel in just a t-shirt. And people on the news would be like, Vigilante has... You look like a new Batman villain. We gotta deal with this bitch. Vigilante slayed a really, really bad person in cloak. They'd get a key to the city. Two of my friends were at a bar in L.A. on Friday, and a girl walked up to them, or a woman, I suppose.

Sorry, fuck, canceled. A woman walked up to them and said, looked at them both up and down and said, I'm a stylist and we can fix this. And then started like, put one of their hair up in a ponytail, tied the other one's shirt in a different way, started just going to work on them. And they were like, like, like put one of their hair up in a ponytail, tied the other one's shirt in a different way. Like started just like going to work on them. And they were like, they're like, isn't that sweet?

And I was like, I would have. Did they look better? They did look better. She did fix it. Oh no. She did fix it. But just, I would have been mad at her, but they were grateful. Oh, I would have like left my body.

And I think like. They did look better. She did fix it. She did fix it. Like all of the anger I have around this comes from like existing formerly in a group of like only straight friends, obviously like in high school and like even like reuniting with like a group of straight women. Like, it's like, I don't, I don't want to be treated the same.

I don't want you to come up to me and cuff my sleeves or be like, let me like paint your toenails. I'm like, I don't want, I don't want to, I don't want to paint it. You know what I mean? I'm gay. You're not. We don't want you to come up to me and cuff my sleeves or be like let me like paint your toenails i'm like i don't want i don't want i don't want to paint it you know what i mean i'm gay you're not we don't understand each other it's fine we're never gonna get along you're not we don't understand each other it's fine like i just like i when when when people are adjusting me and my clothes like it really like i don't know, it really like irks something deep and it feels like slurs. I agree. You're allowed to feel that way.

And they shouldn't be touching you, Jill. They shouldn't be touching your sleeves. I know. I know. Get off my sleeves. Get off my sleeves. Straight women. For once, get off my sleeves.

Straight women, get off my sleeves. Jill, what's the next item on your records? I would like to talk about the movie Freaky Friday. Thank you. Thank you. This is the least brave thing I've ever said as a gay person. Thank you. I want to talk about Freaky Friday.

Yeah, and please do. Yeah, I was going to pick something specific from the movie, but there's just so much. It's so rich. Yeah, and please do. And I think that it is not only like a snapshot of the year 2007, I believe, but also, wait, was it 2007 or was it earlier? I think it was like 2004. Anya's fact checking you. I'm not 100% sure. Anya, what do we have? The mid-aughts. The mid-aughts.

I'm going to find out. I'm going to guess. Okay, Jill says 2007. I'm going to say 2005. I think it was four. I'm going to go 2003.. Okay. Jill says 2007. I'm going to say 2005. I think it was four. I'm going to go 2003. It was 2003. It was 2003.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. Shelby cheated. Shelby cheated. I did cheat. Wow. I cheated.

I think not only is it a snapshot of the year 2003, but it's also like everything that I thought was good about the world at that point in my life you know what I mean like I think that I was so horny for Lindsay Lohan um like just in general um but also like everything about it I it was so deeply aspirational for me as a teen as like a a, not a teen, an adolescent. I wanted to go to Wango Tango, you know, I wanted to play at Wango Tango. I wanted to be in a hot girl band, all of the things. I don't know. It's a perfect film. Do you think that one of the worst things a parent can do is take the door off its hinges and leave you with no privacy. That happens in that movie. And I have always been like, that's crazy. It really is crazy.

Yeah. I actually think within the same extended cinematic universe, one of the worst things you can do as a parent is separate your twin daughters and not tell them about each other. Yes. thank you. When you said, you can't touch, you said something and you counted it down, but I was thinking of, I have class and you don't. That was all I could think of.

You know the difference between you and me? I have class and you don't. You don't. I also think Freaky Friday is a powerful case study in the complicated relationships between mothers and their daughters. Wow. That was actually really brave of you. I'm kidding, of course.

I want to leave. No, but I mean in a way, right? I think there's like a lot of queerness in that movie. Oh, for sure. Yes. like a lot of queerness in that movie oh for sure yes i mean on on all sides even like like like the jamie lee curtis of it all the lindsey lohan of it all but also even like chad michael murray having like a milf crush yeah on jamie lee curtis was gay that's the jamie lee curtis of that relationship was the gayest of the whole movie absolutely totally like i don't know his hair

his leather jacket he's like the baby one more time of it all. It's gay. I don't know. I can't explain it. I want to thank you for bringing up, and it's not only relevant to Freaky Friday and this podcast in this moment, but generally more people need to be as brave as you are, Jill, in bringing up, frankly, the Jamie Lee Curtis of it all. Yeah. The Jamie Lee Curtis of it all doesn't get discussed nearly enough. No. And she's very hot. She's very hot and that's part of it all. Yeah. The Jamie Lee Curtis of it all doesn't get discussed nearly enough.

No. And she's very hot. She's very hot and that's part of it all. I think that both Jamie Lee Curtis and Lindsay Lohan, I feel kind of embarrassed

to say this, but I think they gave an incredible performance in that movie because I, the entire time, start to finish, believed that the other one

was in the other one's body. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely. No. You were like 15 years old, though, Shelby. But I would still watch it today and be like, this is, yeah. I talk about this all the time. I feel like Lindsay has a bad rap right now, but I actually think she is like an amazing actress.

Like, when we were teens, she was literally like the funniest comedic actress in the world. Amanda Bynes. Amanda Bynes. Amanda Bynes. Oh, yeah, absolutely. They were the two of them. Well, let's also not forget the Lindsay Lohan star vehicle, Georgia Rule. How could we forget? How could we forget her performance in Georgia Rule?

I could forget it because I've never not only seen it, but heard of it. You've never seen the Jane Fonda, Lindsay Lohan film? I haven't seen it either. Really, you guys? Yeah. jane fonda lindsey lowe and film i haven't seen it either georgia really you guys yeah it sounds like it wasn't it's quite good what's the prem oh um uh i i i sounds really good it's complicated to choose where to begin it's complicated to choose where to begin. Is this movie real? It's complicated to choose where to begin. You should watch it. Lindsay Lohan is Jane Fonda's

granddaughter, which, I mean, right there, if I'm a studio exec, it's a green light on the spot. Hot. Sexy. It's obviously hot and sexy to me. There's nothing hotter than her grandmother. And she has to go live with her grandma for a while. In Georgia, I assume.

No, the grandmother's name is Georgia. Where do they live? It might be in Georgia. It's gone. I forget. It has to be a double. It could be in California. Or it's like a city named Georgia in Tennessee.

Idaho. I live in Idaho. Idaho on your side. Oh my God. I don't think you understand. I'm going to watch this the second that we're done here. And you'll see why I kind of fumbled around what the premise is because I don't want to. Yeah.

When you watch it, I guarantee you'll message me and say, I understand you, Caleb. I'm going to watch it at the same time as you do. So go ahead and DM me about it. I'll be watching. Okay. Perfect. And you guys can both DM me. And when you're like, oh my God, Caleb, I would have never. I'll be like, yes. I'll be watching. Okay, perfect. And you guys can both DM me. And when you're like, oh my God, Caleb,

I would have never, I'll be like, yes. We'll group text. We'll be like, do you remember that part when, and then you'll be like, no. No, I do not. He'll be like,

no, I actually don't know what the movie was about. Just remember liking it. Jo, what's next on your records? Okay, this might be controversial, but I also want to talk about Pinkberry culturally. Yes yes that's how i know you're from the east coast yeah yeah phenomenon that is pinkberry yeah because so i am

like i think their last customer i don't know anyone else who goes there and i and i go there a lot still like there's one i live near one so like'm there a lot. And it's not even like I'm trying anything new. Like I'm getting like the original flavor with like M&M's. And when you moved into your current place, did you go, oh my God, and it's so close to a pink bear? Literally, yes. Yeah, exactly. I love when that happens. Okay, no, you're right though about like growing up on the East Coast.

Because I felt like when I lived in New Jersey, I saw so many paparazzi photos of the celebs that I liked, like Vanessa Hudgens and Ashley Tisdale and Miley Cyrus. And they were always at Pinkberry. And we didn't have Pinkberry in New Jersey at the time. And I was like, I truly was like, this is like a luxe, like L.A., like bougie, you know, frozen yogurt place. And all we have is red mango. Frozen yogurt from someone in the Midwest, maybe you have a similar experience. I had never heard of it in the concept that it was. And I went to Jewish summer camp on the East Coast.

Did you? I've never talked about it with you before. Wait, where where i went to camp in maine where moden oh okay i don't know it damn i was really but i do know a lot of them yeah um but i would like go visit like i would talk to my friends while they were home in like manhattan and they would be like ah ah, Pink Berry or like 13 handles. They loved that shit. And I felt like such a fucking loser because I was like, I don't even understand what that

is. Like, I don't know what that is. You're like, yeah, we're going to Dairy Queen. Yeah. I was like, yes, bitch. I'm getting the like Tweety Bird gel icing little cup ice cream from Dairy Queen. And they're like, no, I get to choose my top. Like, I was like, what?

Yeah. And I would, like, visit them for, like, camp reunion or whatever. And we would go. And I was like, what? Like, I remember the first time one of them took me. Obviously, it was second nature to them. They go every day. They're obsessed with the place.

I didn't understand. Like, you get the cup. You go to whatever thing. You pull a handle. I was like, what am I doing? I felt like such a little freak. And not in the cool way that you guys are my little podcast listeners are little freaks um jill what do you would you want the aliens so obviously you want the aliens to eat this yeah well i i feel like you know to me pinkberry was a vibe shift and so like it's actually kind of like a cultural study of

like the photos of people outside of Pinkberry. And, and you're right. And I didn't know, I didn't know about frozen yogurt either. I remember like when it like, you know, came on the scene and I was like, but what it's ice cream, but it's not, but it's ice cream, but it's not, it's ice cream, but it's sour. And, and yeah. sour. And yeah, and we went to Red Mango all the time, which didn't taste good. And I was like, I don't understand this, but there must be something about Pinkberry. And it was like, I remember there was just a moment in time. There was celebrities going to Pinkberry, and then they would go to Coachella. And that was all I wanted.

It was like, Pinkberry was so aspirational to me. And look at you now. Yeah. Yeah. Right near a Pinkberry, and nobody else goes there. And hours at you now. Yeah. Right near a Pinkberry and nobody else goes there. And hours from a Coachella. And yeah, mere hours.

I guess I am not sure what I want the aliens to know about Pinkberry. I just really like it. That's important. That's good enough. That's as important as anything else. That's enough. If you had to give them a direction, you would be like, you're going to go in, this is what you're going to do. What would their order be?

Like, do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, totally. What would their procedure be? I am like such a purist though. Like I really only get original and then I get M&Ms, which isn't exciting at all.

I would tell them to, yeah, but like I, when it first started happening, that kind of like choose your own adventure serving style was very new and when i was like 13 you know 14 whatever i used to like fuck around so hard with like fuck it gummy worms i'm gonna get a strawberry flavor i'm gonna get a vanilla flavor oreos marshmallow you know what i mean like just chaos so i do think like if i sent an alien in

there i would want them to like explore that before landing on something that was – Yeah, try a little bit of everything. Yeah, before like ultimately eating something that was good. Get the little ketchup cups, taste each flavor. Yeah. One thing I can't – go ahead, Jo. Oh, no. I was going to say another thing lost to COVID, the little ketchup cups.

Little ketchup cups. Well, corporations are crazy. We have nothing anymore one thing i can't abide is uh you know when you go to like this like you go to a pinkberry where you serve yourself or you go to like a maybe a or something bleeping all of this no free club for the girlies no free club for the um but you go to and they give you like a they give you like a they're like oh a trio of scoops when i see i think it's insane there are flavor houses right there's like yeah it's like fruity there's like savory there's like when i see someone get like raspberry with butter pecan and it's in the same bowl

i'm like you fucking perverted demented i'm sorry but that is sick you know what i mean it has to be in the same house those flavor profiles there, like, coinciding topping options. Yes. Yeah. And you have to stay within your fucking lane. You can't do Heath Bar on a fruit flavor. What the fuck are you doing doing that? It's sick.

You know what I think is also equally as weird? It's like going to one of these places that offers you this kind of, like, dessert bar toppings and getting no toppings. Weird. It's sick. That's sick. Weird. That's a sickness. It's, like. It's sick. That's sick. Weird. That's a sickness. It's like it's free.

Or is it hot in the way that deleting your top eight is hot? Or is it cool? I don't think it is. I think it's actually serial killer behavior. No, I don't think it's cool. I think there's an opportunity for it to be cool. Yeah. Usually less is more with like the rule of being cool is like less is more.

Right. But to me this is like, yeah, this makes you like uninter of being cool is like less is more. Right. But to me, this is like, yeah, this makes you like uninteresting and bland and like honestly psychotic. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like, what kind of music do you like? And you're like, I don't really listen to music. Yeah.

You can't do less. You can't do minimalism in a maximalist environment. You've got 70,000 toppings in front of you. You can't go plain because that's too stark. You can only do that in normal settings. You know what I'm saying? I'm getting just original flavor with nothing on top. I would not

speak to them again. I'm feeling genuinely unsettled and scared. There's bodies in the basement, honey. There's bodies in the basement. That's some John Wayne Gacy shit. I'm freaking out right now. What are you going to crunch on? I don't feel at home in my own body thinking about this.

The idea that invokes the same feeling as me is when you read those like 13 terrifying last meals that people requested on death row and it's like a pea with a fork and a knife. Yeah. That's the same thing I feel if you think of someone just getting, still throwing up. Just like. Still throwing up. Chilling. I'm literally dry heaving. It's crazy to me. there's more on your record

no? yes yes I have also the glances exchanged between Kirsten Dunst Gabrielle Union and Eliza Dushku

in Bring It On thank you fuck thank you yeah cause like so with Freaky Friday I wanted to like

zoom out as a whole like to me everything about that movie is perfect wouldn't change a thing um bring it on is another one of these for me but i feel like what's really important the big takeaway from bring it on today is the glances exchanged between kirsten dunst gabrielle union and eliza dushku you wanted to you wanted to with freaky friday throw a wide net around queerness, and now you're choosing to zoom in on specifically lesbianism. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Basically is the approach.

Did you? There was a part of that movie that I didn't understand until later in life that I'm thinking you as someone from Jersey probably understood right away, which was the, that's all right, that's okay, you're gonna pump our gas someday. Yeah. Yes. I did not know what the fuck they were talking about. I was like, okay. And as you're saying that I'm having the realization

that that wasn't weird to me at all. Right. And it was weird to me. Yeah. Like I didn't even think about that because I was like. We are not the same. That was weird to me. Yeah. No, it was like, that was like a diss of like, you're going to be a gas station attendant, which is not a thing anywhere outside of New Jersey. At all. And also like, I mean, we don't need to get into the politics of it, but gas station attendants are lovely. And like, that is such a luxury.

Like I do miss being in New Jersey. There's something so horrible about just like handing your credit card out the window and just somebody else does it. Like what? I had only ever experienced that driving through New Jersey and I was in like rural Oregon last summer and it was late at night and I pulled my rental car up to a gas station and a guy came out and like, he didn't look like he worked there. Like he wasn't wearing a uniform or anything. He just like popped out with like kind of a coffee

and he was like, I'll get that for you. And I was like, no, I'll be getting it myself. Like I was very much like, no, thank you. And he was like, all right. And then he goes back in and like sends out like a manager in a uniform and is like hey what's going on here and i was like oh i was like that guy wanted to pump my gas but i just can handle it i'm fine and he was like oh he works here and that's like what we do and i was like

i was like oh well i just didn't get that vibe i'm sorry and i was like can i just not giving off works here yeah he was giving off hangs out here and like, I don't know, maybe I throw in five bucks or something. I was like, no, I'm fine. Anyway, it was very off-putting because it was the only time outside of Jersey I'd ever seen someone try to do that. Yeah. It's so Jersey. And it's so funny because I didn't know, like, until I went to college that that was not a thing in other places. And I was like, what do you mean I have to do it?

How do I do it? Like, I didn't know how to do it at all. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Insane. So that scene specifically, I think, speaks to what you're talking about, because that was a pretty tense scene between all three of them. Yeah. Right?

No, but that's not the, is that the you've been touched by an angel scene? No, that's outside of the Colton Comptons. The you've been touched by an angel scene is different. You've been touched by an angel scene? No, that's outside of the Cumbercomptons. The you've been touched by an angel scene is different. You've been touched by an angel girl. Yeah. That scene is hot. She's not worth it. Yeah.

I want to beat this Buffy down. She's not worth it. I'll never forget. You've been touched by an angel girl. I'll never forget. Gabrielle Union. Gabrielle Union, God bless. I mean.

Stunning. Gabrielle Union is timeless ages. She could get it then. She can get it ages. She could get it then. She can get it now. She can get it whenever she wants. You know what I mean? Oh my God. Jill, I've never seen Shelby.

I've known Shelby for years and I've never seen her behave like this. That's not true. You're being like powerfully horny. In a hot way. I'm like into it. You're being like extremely horny. Do you want to hook up later? You're gripping the sides of the chair.

I've been doing that the whole time. I gotta be honest. Can I tell you the truth about where my hands are at and generally the vibe? Yeah. I, these are so low. Sure. And I don't know where my hands go. I've just been putting them around.

Shelby said, Gabrielle Union could get it any day of the week. And then I said, you're being a little weird. And Shelby said, I'm always like this. I'm like, honey. I'm trying to find a place for my hands. I've been spending the past hour thinking where did these go i feel like a little bit i've moved this around i feel like we've gotten off track no i was gonna say it's really powerful i feel like caleb and i were both kind of like

we both said something along the lines of gablle Union is, and then we're completely speechless. And then we got to you and you had a monologue prepared. Yeah. I do my prep work for the pod. Jill and I said, fill in the blank and Shelby said, no problem. Yeah. Yep.

Yeah. No, but that movie is like, it's all, it's 90% glancing and which is like a lesbian love language. And I think also it's like really hard to choose like who to even ship a lesbian relationship between. Because it's like, you know, Missy and Torrance, like that, like really, that's something powerful. But then Tor and, wait, what is Gabrielle Union's character's name?

Her gay, gay boyfriend. Her gay, gay, gay, gay, gay boyfriend. The gayest boyfriend that's ever lived. Yeah, yeah. No, wait, what is Gabrielle Union's character's name? Why is it escaping me? I can't think of it. I always literally just think of her as Gabrielle Union.

I've literally never had to know her name. Yeah. Her character's name is Gabrielle Union in Bring It On. It's Isis. It's Isis Isis right which guys if we knew if we knew then

what we know now sure anyway Tor and Isis they really had a thing going too oh my god how hot was that but I do think ultimately

they're too powerful to be together you know yeah when she rips up the check wow I will say as a poor as someone who grew up as a poor as a poor they're too powerful to be together, you know? Yeah. When she rips up the check. Wow. I will say, as a poor,

as someone who grew up, as a poor, as a poor, as someone who grew up poor, when she ripped up that check, I was like, oh, could not be me. I would take charity, honey.

In a heartbeat, I would take charity. Is there also anything hotter than when Missy, when they go, no tattoos, and she goes, no, no.

That was the hottest thing that's ever happened what you guys could probably answer this for me what is with lesbians and glancing um what isn't with what do you mean yeah what's going on there like lesbian attention sexually yeah no i actually wrote about this like queer theory style in my book, even though I've never studied queer theory, that it's it's it's repression, honey. It's literally the only it's like so many lesbian movies are literally like two women who like if they speak to each other will die. And ultimately they both do die at the end. And so all they have to like communicate desire or, or anything at all is to glance at each other from across the room. And I think that's been passed down through generations from across.

Yeah. And now it's, we, we love to glance. We love like a pinky finger grazing in the dark. Uh, but, but never,

never touching, um, or, or consummating. God bless. God bless. It's hot. God bless lesbians.

You don't vibe with a glance at all? I mean, I just think, you know, a glance can be so hot but I do think that glancing is queer. I think that gay men have glancing. I think that we also have a part in glancing but so specifically. Okay, taking something away from lesbians. So specifically. I think it's men have glancing. I think that we also have a part in glancing. But so specifically. Okay, taking something away from lesbians.

I think it's ultimately for gay men. But I think so specifically it belongs to lesbians. And I think that's, you know. Yeah, I think lesbians love to like yearn. And like in order to yearn, you have to glance. Does that make sense? And gay men love to shop you know or whatever or go to a parade or whatever yeah no yeah or whatever or whatever

yeah um joe i we are we are uh i i think almost out of time with you what uh do you is there anything else you want to throw on the records at the last minute 11 hours style yeah this is actually a perfect thing to throw on at the last minute so that we don't actually have to talk about it that much um i something i would throw to space for the aliens to study is simply a taylor swift avatar on twitter telling you to die because i think that says a lot about our culture yeah and, and that's happened to you, of course. Of course, so many times. And to so many people, to so many journalists or writers

or people who simply tweeted about Taylor Swift in even a positive way. But Swifties can be so scary. And I think that there is something really funny about Stan Twitter, specifically for me, Taylor Swift, Stan Twitter, of just like a bunch of like her

like little white woman face and a bunch of tweets that are just like calling somebody a cunt and telling you to die. You know what I mean? And so often it's from that first album, the blue one with when she had curly hair in it. Do you know what I'm talking about?

The one with the tip of the draw? Where she's literally like 14. Not the one now that's like a little indian folk like like the one when she was curly hair blue in the background i can see yeah no it's her like beaming and 14 and it's like fuck off and die and And I just think, yeah. Who did I activate recently? The Barbs? I mobilized, did I get them? I definitely mobilized Bicycle Twitter recently, but there was a stand,

specifically female musicians, their stand-ums. I didn't even say, I don't remember who it was, but I didn't even say something super critical. And they were in my DMs like, would your employer like to know you tweeted this? And I'm like, yeah, that's why they hired me, bitch. Like, they really, but they're so like, they really want to ruin your life.

It's crazy. Yeah. No, you cannot fuck with Swifties and you cannot fuck with Barbz. Barbz I would never. Barbz are genuinely kind of scary. I activated Barbz one time and I still, this was like before my book.

I still can't sleep. This was way, way, way before my book was out it was like right when pre-orders were like available for the first time and I said something about it was like when Nicki Minaj said something about um the vaccine yeah testicles yeah and I tweeted something about I don't even remember what it was it was honestly like so like so far removed from that such a like joke that is removed from the actual like vaccine of it all I don't even know and then I like saw a movie and I came back and something had happened and I still on Barnes and Noble have like one review where some barb got on there and was like

this book is not feminism actually it was very like mean girls like do not buy this book it's not feminism um i heard sex with a hot dog yeah yeah i will not be speaking about the barbs ever again i i won't send this part of the pod we'll redact we'll redact don't worry i will not send a risky i will not send a risky internet post and then go into a movie anymore no that's Nope. That's a mistake you only make once. I will say that. I did it once. It really is.

It really ruined my life. It's fucked up. Yeah, because it just takes. You never want to activate a stand-up, and you never want to take two hours off your phone. Period. Yeah. Totally. Don't step away for two hours.

Or go off the grid. This is me announcing I'm going off the grid. Yeah. Yeah, you're like'm going off the grid. Yeah. Yeah, you're like, or it could be powerful if... Very cool. It would be very cool to go off the grid. No, it couldn't be me. I buy airplane Wi-Fi.

I don't want to be off the grid. To do nothing. I buy airplane Wi-Fi. I buy airplane Wi-Fi in case anyone wants to reach out. Just to wait. Buy it just to wait and then... I'm like, all right, well, Wi-Fi wifi turned on time to take a nap like what the fuck I'm available and that's so unfortunate

I would love to be the cool girl who's like I won't be available these times instead I'm like it'll be the 15 minutes during takeoff before the wifi really comes in and then after that you can catch me flying through the sky talking to whoever will talk to me that is me just like embarrassing availability And then after that, you can catch me flying through the sky talking to whoever will talk to me. That is me.

Just like embarrassing availability. Yeah. Yeah. Jill, people can buy your book, which they know. And where can they find you online? You can find me online on Twitter at Jill Board, spelled like billboard. Or on Instagram, my name, Jill Gutowitz. And you can buy my book anywhere. Amazon which i wouldn't recommend local bookstore um barnes and noble anything like that

yeah amazing buy the fucking book buy the book you freaks is there anything else you want to tell people before we go um no i just you know be gay do crime the usual thank you guys so much for having me this This was a blast. Thank you for coming on. Yeah, this is an incredible episode. Hit myself. Hit myself. Yeah.

We'll talk later when we watch Georgia rule. Yeah. Let's let's live DM through the whole thing. Yeah, exactly. Bye. That was a Hidgum Original.