Kermode & Mayo’s Take - 28 Years Later: Mark’s Verdict + Jodie Comer and (Oh) Danny Boy(le) on the film

Episode Date: June 19, 2025

Vanguardistas have more fun—so if you don’t already subscribe to the podcast, join the Vanguard today via Apple Podcasts or extratakes.com for non-fruit-related devices. In return you’ll get a whole extra Take 2 alongside Take 1 every week, with bonus reviews, more viewing recommendations from the Good Doctors and whole bonus episodes just for you. And if you’re already a Vanguardista, we salute you.  It’s not quite 28 years, but we have been waiting a whole 23 for a Danny Boyle helmed sequel to the 2002 zombie apocalypse classic ‘28 Days Later’. He and Jodie Comer, who stars in the new horror shocker, join Simon to discuss ‘28 Years Later’. It’s the first in a trilogy of follow ups set amongst the new society that has developed on the remote Holy Island after the Rage Virus has rendered mainland Britain uninhabitable. Danny and Jodie unpack the horrifying and fascinating world of the film, and we’ll be bringing you The Good Doctors’ verdicts on it too. We can guarantee you a spoiler-free review in Take 1—but tune in to Take 2 sharpish if you’re after a spoiler-tastic deep dive...   More reviews this week of ‘The Last Journey’—a Swedish documentary about one son’s bid to help his father regain a zest for life via an elaborate road trip adventure—and ‘Elio’, an intergalactic new Pixar offering that sees a misfit kid appointed as Earth’s ambassador to the universe. Plus our usual rundown of the Box Office Top 10 with Mark’s takes and yours, more alleged ‘hilarity’ from The Laughter Lift, and top correspondence from you lot on everything from your cinemagoing antics to films that just need a slap.     Timecodes (for Vanguardistas listening ad-free):  The Last Journey Review: 06:47  Box Office Top Ten: 12:59  Danny Boyle and Jodie Comer Interview: 24:27   28 Years Later Review: 38:35  Elio Review: 52:32  You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo  Please take our survey and help shape the future of our show: https://www.kermodeandmayo.com/survey   EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee!  A Sony Music Entertainment production.      Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts    To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail]     Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Oh hey, this is Simon. This is Mark. I'll give you a pretty penny, Mark, if you can name any film festivals that are on the horizon in June. Transylvania Film Festival, Film on Film with the BFI, Tribeca, that's three pretty pennies, you know me? An esteemed critic like yourself cannot be in all those places at once, but you can get pretty darn close to it with NordVPN. Saving on travel and jet lag to unlock the best films from around the world sounds pretty good. But it's not only that, Mark. No, you can log on to public Wi-Fi anonymously, leaving no

way for hackers to get your data even when you're streaming. And even better, you can get it across multiple devices. So whatever you're using to stream the best of this year's new films from around the world, you're covered and you are protected. With NordVPN, you can travel the world faster than a private jet minus the carbon footprint. you are protected. Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguard Easter and get an extra episode every Thursday. Including bonus reviews, extra viewing suggestions, viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas. Plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in Questions Shmeshtians.

You can get all that extra stuff via Apple podcasts or head to ExtraTakes.com for non-fruit related devices. There's never been a better time to become a Vanguard Easter free offer now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter, we salute you. Brief chat, then throw to Mark for review line up. Hey Mark. Hey Simon. I need to do a brief chat with you before I throw to you for a review line up.

Is that okay? Okay, fine. Yes, fine. Go ahead, do a brief chat. Are you in shorts today or not? Oh, no, I mean, I'm dressed for work. Are you in shorts? Yes, no. I mean, I'm dressed for work. Are you in shorts? Yes, absolutely.

Are you? The problem, I never go to work in shorts because that's disrespectful. Well, what is this? This is work. I'm sitting in my, but no one can see me. Well, they can't see me below waist. Did you nearly say I'm sitting in my Speedos? Is that what you start?

You said I'm sitting in my spare room. I'm sitting in my spare room. Not Speedos. Oh, your spare room. Sorry. In France where they actually say you have to wear Speedos and if you're not wearing Speedos you can't swim. Is it France? That sucks basically. I mean, when was the last time? Have you ever worn Speedos? Like when I was eight, maybe I did, but you know. Yeah, I mean, never knowingly, not in any way that, yeah, no, no. I mean, I like every other right thinking person wear voluminous shorts. Yes, yes, yes. Tied around the waist with a piece

of string and enough space in them to catch a fish. And that is why I'm boycotting France. to catch a fish. And that is why I'm boycotting France. I just want to have the freedom to wear what I wish. Anyway, throw to Mark for review lineup. What's on the lineup that we need to mention at this point? Well, it's a fascinating week this week. We have an Academy Award entry documentary, The Last Journey.

We have a new animation, Elio, and 23 years after the first film, we have 28 years later with our special guests. Danny Boyle and Jodie Comer. Jodie Comer, one of the stars. Hopefully that'll be the last time you have to feel as though you have to contribute that. No, it won't. Danny said, where's Kermode these days? I said he's in Cornwall. He never, he never ever comes out. He stays down there. Yes.

And because of the particular nature of 28 years later, more of which with Danny Boyle in this take one, when we get to, there will be at the end of take two, a spoiler chat, because there is a particular thing about 28 years later, which demands attention, but only in a spoiler-tastic edition. So we're just giving you advance warning. It's not in this edition. It's in take two. It's right at the end of take two, but there is, there are a lot of issues

that are thrown up by, uh, 28 years later, some of which are hinted at in the interview with, um, Mr. Boyle. Is it wearing thin? Thinner than my speedos in a French swimming pool. And every time you do that, the gap I'm going to leave is going to get longer and longer and longer. Anyway, so lots of Jovi Comer and her film. And in Take Two, what else apart from a Spoilertastic edition? Yeah, so in Take Two, more reviews. There is a reissue of Hidden, Cachet, the Michael Haneke film, which is

back in cinemas as part of a Michael Haneke season, and also another documentary, A Sip of Irish. Plus also all the extra bits and pieces that you get every Thursday. The whole back catalogue of bonus joy is available. Just become a subscriber and the world is your oyster. An email here from Kelly and Lewis. Dear Trench and Exhaustport, to paraphrase Tarantino's Jules Winfield, my girlfriend's a long-term listener, which more or less makes me a long-term listener too. And now I find myself a first-time emailer. I was fortunate enough to win seats in the ballot for a screening at the BFI's Archive

1977 print of Star Wars last week. This enabled my best friend and I to relive the experience of our 11-year-old selves seeing it in early 1978 when we attempted to watch it as many times as we possibly could by hook, by crook, or by the fire door. It was a great evening at the South Bank with an opportunity to see a small exhibition of the film's much annotated continuity script with its supporting polaroids of the cast and sets that should be published, says Kelly. We were also able to peruse the BFI library and reminisce with one or two other fans of A Simpler Vintage. Just prior to the film starting, there was a short speech by the BFI chair who went on to introduce a surprise guest, no less

than the president of Lucasfilm, Kathleen Kennedy. She came on stage to warm applause for some quick questions and slightly tongue of cheek to reassure us that everything we're about to see was approved and above board. The screening room darkened and the wave of nostalgia rolled straight back as the 1970s BBFCU certificate was displayed. The print was good and the technicolor still held up. There were signs of age as you'd expect, but they didn't detract from the experience. The film was almost as we remembered, but we really did need to check up on one or two things in the bar afterwards. It turns out that even back in the day, there were some dialogue differences between the stereo and mono sound mix.

I mean, this is... Wow. We're at the micro level here. Apart from one or two late comers during the opening title crawl, the audience, as you would expect, followed the code. The sixth laugh test was passed mostly courtesy of Anthony Daniels. While I respect George Lucas's desire to make the film he wanted, the film he gave us, The Children of 1977-78 is the version in our hearts and memories." Which is, which is very true because that is the version in our hearts and memories, which is very true

because that is the version that people will have absorbed all those years ago. Absolutely. Kelly says, hello to Jason. Take it easy, Tom, and down with the Sith. I don't think we've had one of those for a while. No. But we appreciate all correspondents as long as it comes to correspondence at kerbidermayor.com. Tell us about a film that might be out that we might be interested in, depending on whether it's any good or not. The Last Journey, Densisterreson, which was Sweden's entry for the best international

feature at the 97th Academy Awards. A documentary by Lars Philip Hammer and Fredrik Wilkinson, who are commonly known as Filipp'Frederick. This is according to the wiki page because I didn't know this. Two Swedish writers, television hosts and journalists known for their youthful, though intellectual humour and unconventional journalism. Will Barron Well, one of them sounds Swedish and the other one certainly doesn't. Alistair Duggan No, well, you know, I'm just telling it like I see it. So, Philip is the son of retired French teacher, Lars, who has lost his joie de vivre. His get up and go has got up and gone. All he does now

is sits and feels bereft at the loss of youth, of agility, of his spirit, saying that life is not what it used to be. I'm going to play you a trailer. The trailer is obviously in foreign. So just in advance, what you hear in this trailer is a clip of him in hospital having checks with his son. His son saying that, you know, look, if these checks are all fine, you need to embrace life. And then we meet the mom, the wife saying

the tests are all negative, but he's lost his spring. These were supposed to be our golden years, but all he does is sit there and look into space. Here is a clip. So you understood all of that because I'd done the translation in It was supposed to be our golden age. We were supposed to have it so cozy now when we became pensioners. And now he's just sitting there. dad back his lust for life. He's going to take him to his favorite place on earth, which is a resort in France. He loves France. He loves France above all other countries. He loves the culture. He loves the people. He loves the freedom. He loves the fact that they'll get into traffic arguments and yell at each other in the street and then just move on. The son thinks that this is going to be a lifesaver. He says, look, without this trip, I fear that he won't be with us much longer. But the father is not as nimble as he used to be, and at the very beginning he falls over, he injures himself. So is the trip going to happen?

Is he going to make it there? Is he going to rediscover his mojo? Now, if you've seen the trailer, the rest of the trailer, with it sort of tinkly and then relentlessly upbeat music, you'll not be surprised to know that the answer is probably not going to be no. be surprised to know that the answer is probably not going to be no. What you might not expect is quite how much the journey is played like a drama. This is a documentary, but it is a very dramatized documentary. There are some scenes which are deliberately dramatized. For example, in order to give his dad the experience of watching some French people argue in the street, they actually arrange some actors to have an argument in the street right in front of him because they know how much he enjoys watching French people argue in the street. They actually arrange some actors to have an argument in the street right in front of him

because they know how much he enjoys watching French people arguing in the street. There's also a kind of harebrained diversion about, he once told an anecdote that was interrupted at a certain moment by a train passing by, which meant that he could wait, pause, before doing the punchline to the anecdote. And they try and recreate that with the train

going by at the right moment. So there is a bunch of deliberate dramatization. What there is more of is just even the stuff which is just documentary stuff feels hugely staged and orchestrated. Now, I don't mean that that doesn't mean it's not real because what the documentary is about is about father and son bonding over this trip and somebody rediscovering the joy of life. But it is done in a way that is so orchestrated, so many drone shots, so much lush music telling you exactly how to feel,

that you really feel like the thing is reaching out and grabbing at your heartstrings and yanking them and going, okay, this is what's happening at this point. Now, there are some interesting things about it. It raises some interesting points. One of them being, you know, that whole thing at the center of the great Gatsby, which is my favorite novel of all time, which is people say you can't bring back the past. Of course you can. And there is an actual, there's a direct question in this about why can't you recreate the past and why shouldn't you? is an actual, there's a direct question in this about why can't you recreate the past and why shouldn't you? There's also evidence that this guy was, as a teacher, was absolutely

loved by his pupils. And he seems to be a genuinely good and very, very humble man. When he smiles, he looks like Tim Spall. And I love Tim Spall. And you know, there's that weird thing that if somebody resembles somebody you really like, you sort of get, you know, sort of like secondary affection for them. And there is, there is a thing that they return to a couple of times, which is that he's plagued by guilt. And the guilt that he's plagued by is that once many years ago he was rude to a taxi driver. And this really eats, he's that's, that's what kind of a guy he is. That the, the. The deep dark secret that he will have to face on the day of judgment is that he was rude to a taxi driver.

So look, it's very uplifting. And I'm sure we'll get some emails from people to go and see it and find it moving. And I did, and I wept and all the rest of it. I just, it's just, it is very, very constructed and very sacchariney and very sort of dramatized, not just in the dramatic situations. I would have liked a little more grit, but that it's not that film.

It's absolutely not that film. It is a film which says you are going to feel good about this and we are not going to let you leave until you have felt good. But you've left and you didn't feel good. So I did. I did. I mean, I said I did feel good. I did. I did. It got, you know, it's just, I felt it was ladled on too much. But then, you know, that probably says more about my dark heart than it does about the film itself. Box Office Top 10 this week at number 14, Tornado. The wonderfully named Dempsey Bretherton,

who I'm sure is a character in some classic novel, saw Tornado with my son at the luxurious Liverpool Everyman this morning with three other people in the screening room. It was bliss. This was a birthday treat for us as we both have birthdays in June, he's 35 and I'm 70. We both love this movie, fabulous casting throughout, clear storyline, but with surprises along the way, great atmosphere, beautiful sets, music and sound were amazing. Tim Roth outstanding, Jack Loudon amusingly convincing a nice cameo from Joanne Wally, just the right length to entertain us both, well done to everyone involved, says Dempsey. Excellent. I'm a big fan of the film. I like

the filmmaker very much and again, James King's quote, it's the Scottish samurai movie, you didn't know you needed, is exactly on the money. Number 10 is Clown in a Cornfield. Catriona says, Dear Morrissey and Ma, I was interested to hear you sing the title Clown in a Cornfield to the tune of Rat in the Kitchen, what am I going to do? Whenever I've seen the title, the first tune that comes into my head is Girlfriend in a Coma. You have to elongate the word clown slightly, but it does work. Clown in a cornfield, I know. I know. It doesn't quite work though, does it? And Catriona signs off by saying, I know, I know, it's serious. Well, yes, I think we should encourage emails about film titles that you have to sing to

popular songs. Let's maybe move away from the Smiths. But yeah, Clown in a Cornfield does exactly what it says on the tin. There's a cornfield, there's lots of clowns, and it's kind of goofy fun. It's unremarkable, but I enjoyed it whilst I was watching it. So should it be clowns in a cornfield? Yes, technically it is clowns, although there is the Uber clown, the symbol of the local business, is the clown who is in the cornfield. Number nine, Pepper meets the baby cinema experience. As we said before, this is basically sort of introduction to going to the cinema for

the very, very young, and if it gets the very, very young interested in going to the cinema, more power to it. Number eight is the Ballad of Wallace Island. There's a review of the Ballad of Wallace Island. It was in T2 and you can access it really, really easily. You just subscribe and then you download T2 and then it's on your device. What is the world coming to? And you can listen as many times as you like. Number seven here and number seven over there, Final Destination Bloodlines. Who knew that at this point in the series they'd make what is one of the best of the series? So it seems to be doing well. What's interesting is I have now had this conversation with many critics and the standard response to it is it was much better than we thought it was going to be.

And that's exactly right. So we have a run of three colond titles. So Final Destination Bloodlines is at number seven. Number six is Karate Kid, Colon Legends. Put a spring in my step even when I turned up at the screening. Very miserable. I enjoyed it. Number five in the UK, number four in Canada from the world of John Wick, Colon Ballerina. I like watching Ana D'Almas kick people in the head. I like the seven minutes or so in which Canano is in it. If you look at the best of the John Wick movies, they're coherent.

This isn't coherent, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching Anna de Armas kick people in the head. At number four, Jason keeping his end up. Is that what they're calling it now? The salt path. That's right. I'm sure. Jason keeping his end up. Is that what they're calling it now? Is that like the salt path? I'm sure. Unfortunately, he doesn't keep his end up in this particular film.

I'm sure there is a territory in Europe in which the translated title of the salt path, because you know they do that when they release films in different territories, they change that. So like I think it was in, it's either in one of the Eastern territories in which a star is born is The literal translation of the title is Bitter Tears of Little Singing Star. Anyway, yes, Jason Keefing has ended up very nicely in Salt Path, which is doing very well. Bear in mind, look at the movies around it. Mission Impossible, Lilo and Stitch, from the world of John Wick, Legends. This is a very small movie that is holding its own against a blockbuster market. That is impressive.

Holding your own is the same as keeping your end up, isn't it really? Just to be clear. Yes, it's just generally soldiering on. Number three, as you mentioned, another colon, mission colon impossible hyphen the final reckoning. Yes. Well, I mean, to repeat what we've said before, first hour, second hour, wow, third hour, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow,

wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, but does go to show that recognisable IPs will pull in the punters regardless of whether

or not we needed a live action remake of an animation that was perfectly fine the first time. Which brings us to the number one spot. How to colon train your dragon. Email from Jay who says, I would like to give my little experience with the live action 2025 version of How to Train Your Dragon. Here in America, June is Pride Month. I would like to give a shout out to writer, director and producer of the How to Train Your Dragon movies, Dean de Blois, who is openly gay. I am old enough to have missed all the animated movies. I barely knew they existed.

I saw de Blois talk in an interview how his own homosexuality informed the story of the movies and how in some ways it could be read as a gay allegory. This piqued my interest and I went to the theatre. I saw the live action How to Train Your Dragon movie first. What I saw was a beautiful story of a father struggling to understand his son who feels different. I was blown away by the subtle emotions of the actors, the unsaid subtext simmering below the surface of scenes.

In fact, it was one of my favorite movies I've seen in a long time. Usually my movie preferences are James Ivory, not Fantasy with Dragons. After hearing Mark's review, I was puzzled. He didn't see what I'd seen. I found the animated classic and watched it for the first time, saw it for the first time, second in this viewing sequence. While the animated original was undeniably charming and magical and the dragon was far more adorable, it honestly lacked that emotional depth of the father-son relationship. Of course, it was there, but the animated figures couldn't convey the emotions or nuance I had found in the live-action version. In short, the live-action felt like it was a story of father and son. The animation felt like it was a story of an adorable flying dragon.

I wonder whether people's nostalgia is getting in the way. I don't know that it's nostalgia in my case in terms of the animated How to Train Your Dragon, because I don't know that I have got great nostalgic memories of it. Firstly, the first thing to say is I am really glad that you had that experience with the film. And I think that I did say in the review that the thing about How to Train Your Dragon is, of course, it is about outsiders and identity. Of course, it is about those things.

I sort of assume that we take that stuff for granted since we've kind of talked about it originally in the first version. But the crucial thing is, it's yet another demonstration of the fact that you can find, there are things that you can find in films, if you find, particularly in fantasy films, and bear in mind, fantasy is a very denigrated genre that people tend to be sniffy about. It is absolutely true that fantasy is the genre in which so many of these very, very down to earth, close to home stories can be told in a way that is universal. So I am nothing but pleased that that's how you felt about it. I am also completely unconvinced that we needed a live action version of the animation because I have a particular fondness for animation.

But I am very, very glad that you got that from it and thank you for expressing it as eloquently as you have. Yes, thanks to the correspondents. Thank you, Jay. Correspondents at carbonemode.com. One more email just for the moment from Robert Prosser. Simon Mark, the manager at our local cinema in Milton Keynes has confirmed to me that for premiere runs, they are no longer offering

children's tickets. Everyone pays full price. The manager said that they are trying it out here and a couple of other cinemas before rolling it out. Right. So no more children's tickets? Today, Sunday, to see how to train Your Dragon, a family of two adults and two children is £89.96. Whoa! I believe this makes these the most expensive tickets in the UK. I hope I'm not wrong. BFI IMAX would be £72, Odeon Leicester Square Dolby £76.90. Certainly for us, there is real purchase barrier to children's tickets being the same price as adults.

We're going to go elsewhere and see the films in Atmos for £34 less. Market forces will dictate, but for us, there is real mental barrier to children's tickets being the same price as adults. The last thing cinema needs is extreme fiscal barriers to children going. If this continues, we would just go less often and sadly stream more. Truly a bad day. Robert Prosser and Milton Keynes, that is an eyewatering amount of money for a family going to see a film. It is. And if I can just say that my own experience of the children's prices thing, when I was a kid, half price tickets, which I think it was under 14 when we were kids, wasn't it?

They were the thing that enabled my life to be what it is, because I just went to the cinema all the time, because I could afford to go to the cinema twice a week on the money that I got from the paper round. And it was an education and it was just a really, really lovely way to spend my youth. As a parent, I know that taking the kids to the cinema, it's not a cheap experience by any means, but that is an eye-watering amount. If I heard you right, you're saying that it would have been less expensive to take the family to see it at the BFI IMAX, which is the biggest screen in Europe. It's more expensive.

Well, yes, according to Robert, it would be £72 to go to the IMAX. Yeah, that's shocking. I hadn't heard about this before. All I know about this is what you've just said in the email, so I'm speaking off the cuff, but that sounds like a very, very bad idea. You can see, I guess you can see the point from, you know, a seat taken is a seat taken therefore. But if they need to, if the net result is that people will stop going to the cinema, then they're shooting themselves in the foot.

Yeah. And if it's, did he say 82 pounds? No, 89 pounds, 96. So let's assume you add a couple of orange juices and some crisps. That's a hundred quid. It's a hundred quid to go to the cinema. Okay. And I do believe that the net result of that, if you're showing a family film and it's costing the family a hundred quid, is that people won't go to the cinema. And I think that is a perfect example of shooting yourself in the head. Correspondence at kodamao.com in a moment we'll be back with, well what are you going to be doing next? Well I'm going to be listening to you

speaking to Jodie Comer and Danny Boy, oh Danny Boy. This is an advert for Shopify. Mark, do you remember when we started this podcast? I do. Plunging into a world of subscribers, ads, merchandise, a lot to get done, a lot of different hats to wear. And hats to sell, of course. That's where the ad hook comes in. For millions of businesses like ours, Shopify is the place to go for e-commerce. It's packed with AI tools for product descriptions, photography and page headlines, and others to help create social campaigns and emails. And best yet, Simon, best yet, Shopify has world-class expertise in everything from

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Wigovie? Yeah, Wigov tell you about Wagovi. Wagovi? Yeah, Wagovi. What about it? On second thought, I might not be the right person to tell you. Oh, you're not? No. Just ask your doctor. About Wagovi? Yeah. Ask for it by name.

Okay. So why did you bring me to this circus? Oh, I'm really into lion tamers. You know, with the chair and everything. Ask your doctor for Wagovi by name. Visit wagovi.ca for savings. It's close his microphone. Danny Boyle and Jodie Comer. I was talking to them about 28 years later. Obviously, Mark could have come, but because he keeps singing, Danny doesn't want to see him ever again. Anyway, the third installment of the 28 plus time period plus zombie films is out and you're going to hear my chat with Danny and non-infected alike. That's why our horn is so precious. You know, I feel he's a bit young.

He's ready, Cheney. Seven, six, eleven, five. Once you walk onto that mainland, there's no rescues. Moving up and down again. Don't, don't, don't. Look at what's in front of you. A terrifying clip from 28 Years Later. One of its stars is Jodie Comer.

Its director is Danny Boyle. Hello, Jodie, hello, Danny. Hiya. How are you? Yeah good. Do you like this part of the process? I'm trough to be with Danny. It's very nice to be with Jodie actually, this is our first one together. All right, so there you go. Because this film has been a long time in the gestation, it's quite a big project we're talking about, so Danny just introduce us to where we are with this movie. So we made this film 23 years ago.

Sadly, not 28 years ago. That would have been cute beyond belief. But we made this film 23 years ago called 28 Days Later, which has sustained a kind of interest, which is really amazing because most films fade after a time. But this one has kept going. There's always been these screenings and I'd go to these Q&As and they'd be packed

and there'd be people. You could feel the energy in the room. It's like, oh. So I used to text Alex saying, you know, there's a real appetite for this still. And we could see all these spinoffs, all the, not spinoffs from us, but these other shows that were ploughing related territory, like TV shows and other movies and stuff like that. Walking Dead, Last of Us. All those kind of things.

So we started to think about doing a sequel to it. And Alex originally wrote one, and we both decided, it's a good script, Alex doesn't write bad scripts, but it didn't get any traction between us, and we kind of left it. It was generic, it was too generic, we decided. It was weaponizing the virus, that kind of approach, which you sort of seen before.

It's grey, obviously alien and stuff like that. But anyway, and then he came up with this trilogy idea, three films, not like one. It was like, whoa, that is ambitious. And it was exactly that that we needed to tip us over the edge. Suddenly it was outrageously ambitious. We'll never raise the money for that. And what's it about? And it's about a family. And it's about a family 28 years later that is the nucleus of the film and the purpose of the first film and they survived on this island, Holy Island off the north east coast amongst a small community and it's what the boat that is how the mother and father train is too strong a word for what Jodie does with him but how they introduce their son to the mainland where

all the danger is. Jodie introduced so let's go to that island where you and Aaron Taylor-Johnson and your son Spike, who's a great character, are living. How would you describe, first of all, describe your family and that community and what it feels like to you? Yeah, well, it's interesting really, because Isla isn't very well, so she's kind of isolated from the community. She's kind of been kept to the confines of her bedroom

because it feels like nobody really knows how to help her or what to do with her. And it creates this kind of unusual and nuanced dynamic where her son is often having to be the parent and he's her kind of connection to the outside world to kind of joy and familiarity. And I think Aaron's character, Jamie, I think they have very different kind of views

on what they want their son to be kind of focusing on or just experiencing within the world. But I will say as well, it's interesting because of Isla's illness. She does have a kind of element of escapism from the severity of the situation and the dangers, whereas Jamie is very much kind of that's at the forefront of his mind and importance. It feels like 1940s, 1950s England, although they're making bows and arrows so I guess that's like 1650s, but it feels like it's a real throwback. There's photographs of the Queen and sandwiches and can you just explain, not the sandwiches, particularly. I can speak about sandwiches all day. We're going back like 75 years. What's the feel of this community? Well I think it very much feels like there's kind of an air of nostalgia

and it almost feels like they've regressed in many, many ways. There's very male roles, female roles and expectations within the community. I don't know if you probably can speak a bit more in depth about that, Danny. Yeah, we wanted it to feel like when culture stops for them and it's this abrupt stop and all technology is gone and electricity is gone, they choose to step back towards a kind of like post-war kind of existence which they kind of identify with and then that begins to become the culture. They don't feel like they're looking forward to anything. They feel like they've stopped.

And of course it's a huge challenge. How do you step forward without, how do you keep moving forward without technology? And in a place like this where you are being imprisoned, basically to let the disease burn out. It doesn't work out like that for various reasons and they have somewhere to move forward to but it's very limited in their respect. And Jamie's quite happy, Aaron Taylor-Johnson's great, he's quite happy to train the boy to follow in his footsteps, that absolute tradition. And I think she's different. She teaches him something and it's not taught in an obvious

way like with Jamie, but she's passing on something to him that is much quieter and stiller. Yeah, there's a tenderness. much quieter and stiller. Yeah, there's a tenderness. Yeah. And he, including her eventual destiny, which she is almost teaching him to absorb. And then it's up to him what he does with it. And he does not follow in the end his father's footsteps.

He has a decision to make whether he does or not. Alfie Williams is the boy, Spike in the movie. You've worked with kids before. Just tell me what you thought about working with this young lad. And because you and him and Aaron Taylor-Johnson are kind of the heart of what's happening. If we leave the infected ones, I think. This relationship is the heart of the film.

Yeah, it really is. And that was what I was really drawn to. And what was beautiful was we had like a two week rehearsal period before we even got to set with Danny and Alex, where we were able to kind of go through the script, meet Alfie, talk through scenes, block scenes out, and just become familiar with each other and build a relationship and get tactile.

And so that was so helpful for all of us, I think, especially because of this dynamic between them where he's having to lead and kind of really provide for his mum. You know, that was a relationship that was unfamiliar to me. I think it was definitely unfamiliar to Alfie and the relationship he has with his mum. You know, so there was a lot of figuring out, but I remember just being so struck by, he was so prepared, he was so confident, he wasn't scared to ask a question, to say what he felt, and I was just like, wow, even as a woman,

you know, 32 years old, sometimes I think, well, can as a woman you know 32 years old sometimes I think you know when he was just like this is what I think and I was like that's so inspiring you know I blame Harry Potter I think because I audition auditioning though and he was exceptional but the general level was much higher than it used to be I think there's many more kids see it as a oh I could do that I can have a go at that. It's quite changed because I did a film millions years ago with a seven year old and a nine year old and the standard now is much higher. As Britain was just about to adopt the euro as I recall in your dystopian far-off period.

Bizarrely, how wrong was that? Anyway he was exceptional though though, and in the second half of the film, this was what's extraordinary about him for me. He was great in the first half of the film with Jamie, with Aaron, and he's very physical, it's very male, kind of, you know, let's stride out there lads. You know, it's very mansplaining. In the second half of the film, he's much stiller. I didn't really see this until the editing. He's much stiller in his acting. And he responds, I think, to the circumstances of the journey.

Obviously, there's still action and danger and all that kind of stuff. But he's much stiller and quieter and more absorbing. I had no idea whether he was aware of that. I certainly wasn't directing him to be. But I really noticed it in the editing, how he'd responded to you and your circumstances, the situation they were in, the fact that he had to take on the leadership role.

He doesn't take on the leadership role in a gong ho. Come on then, pull yourself together kind of thing. He's much quieter. You have, Danny, put me in a position for this interview that I don't think I've ever been in, in 20 years of doing these interviews. So I'm going to phrase this appropriately, okay? I think when people leave this film, apart from thinking,

I think it's fantastic, visceral, brutal, thrilling, emotionally powerful. You present us in the last few minutes with a situation where a lot of people's jaws will be on the floor. Could you frame where we are at the end of the film? Oh, right, yeah. What I'm trying to say is I think a lot of people

will find it problematic. Oh, well, it's kind of one of the things that's really interesting about the writing of the film is that it was clearly obsessed with memory, particularly in terms of Geordi's character, in terms of Isla, that her mind is beginning to detach, beginning to loosen what she remembers, what she doesn't remember.

And this kind of, it's a kind of amnesia, but also a recollection. It's very tender, it's very beautifully done. There's another role for memory in the film, which you mentioned earlier, which is them looking back to the 50s, this idea of balls and arrows, England, mighty England, we few, we band of brothers, the St Crispin's Day speech, that kind of thing. But there's also another type of memory which is much

more savage and is to do with how a particular character remembers a mixture of, what he emerges out of is a mixture of pop culture, sportswear, the honours system, cricket, it's a jumble like that, you know that cancer that forms of all the different, what's it called, the tar coma? Is it called, you know when you get bits of teeth and hair in the tumour? You've been hanging out with Alex Garland too much. He's like a mixture, he's like a version of that, but in sportswear. And it is very disturbing and it's, I think we thought we had to return, this is a horror

film and it has a passage in it which is particularly moving and tender and emotional, but it's also a horror film. And when I spoke to Alex originally, I said, what are the films about? You know, you want your writer, whenever you work with writers, you want them to say, go on, just distill what it's about. He said the first film's about the nature of family and the second film, which that character you're referring to features in enormously and to much greater degree in this film,

the second film is about the nature of evil. The Bone Temple, which is coming out next year. Yeah, and that film is about the nature of evil. So that gives you an idea of why he's there and the challenges that Alfie is going to face in the second half. He's chosen a path away from his homeland, the island, but he moves into a territory of great danger. It's like the biggest shock in the movie is the final shock.

Well, anyway, it's horror returns. And when I read it, and I've obviously had the advantage of reading and seeing a rough cut of the second film, I thought that's the best bit of screenwriting I've read since Clockwork Orange. And I'm not just saying that to big it up on your podcast. I'm saying that because I genuinely felt it. Have you seen it all the way through, Jenny? Yes, I have.

And how did you leave the screening room? Oh my God, I was vibrating. I felt... It was, do you know what? The experience was such an intimate and playful experience and that's to do with the set that Danny led, that Anthony Dodd-Mantle, the DOP. There was so much that was happening that I was like,

I'm so curious as to how this is going to translate on screen because we were all so in it. And I was just, I was blown away by the editing, the cinematography, the sound design. Like I just was, I was so taken aback because obviously I played a lot of, I was there for a lot of those moments, but just to see that all come together,

yeah, I was blown away by it. I kind of associate Danny Boyle films with a sense of ultimate optimism You know and I'm just wondering whether I'm gonna get to the end of these movies with us You know, however bad there's not a slumdog before we get to the millionaire to use one of your Films and you're putting us through a lot. I'm just wondering if there's any Danny Boyle Positivity down the road. The third film, which we haven't raised the money for yet, is about the nature of redemption. Funny you mention it.

So yeah, these are not exercises in sadomasochism. They're an attempt to look at it. They're spiritual as well, even though Alex and I disagree about that quite vehemently. We fell out when we made sunshine about that. About what? Just about... Alex is a hardcore atheist, hardcore rationalist atheist. I'm not quite so sure, not quite so convinced. So we disagree about things, but for me it's a spiritual film, and what's beautiful about it is that what's passed on between the mother and the son

is something that you can't quite quantify but is in essence goodness and in the middle of a brutal horrific experience there is some goodness there and it's the way she sets him up for her destiny which she understands I think when she gets there that she's not going to leave and it's the way she gets him to absolve that because for any boy I remember my mum dying and I was like 30 by then. And it's like, it's just such an enormous moment, you know. So yeah, there is goodness there. And it will be revealed to you, Simon, if you're not convinced of it yet. Simon McIlwain Let's hope you get the money for the third film so that we can witness that. Daddy and Jodie, thank you so much. Thank you.

Jodie McIlwain Thank you. Simon McIlwain Magic. Good. Jason Vale Always very good to have such fine guests on the program. Jodie hadn't been on since she sat next to Ridley Scott, I think, a couple of years back. And Danny is always very interesting. A lot has been made about this third film. And he said in that interview

that we don't have the money and so on. I just kind of feel as though they do. You know, I feel as though that if, because that is the film where apparently that's the one that Killian Murphy has agreed to be and that's why there's a bit in the second one, but he's mainly the character in the third film. And I'd have thought if Danny Ball, Alex Garland, and Killian Murphy can't get a movie away, then I'd be very, very surprised. Anyway, there's a long way to go. And obviously, a hardcore horror film coming in January with Bone Temple. But first of all, we got 28 years

later, Mark. Well, let's start by saying that word that Danny was searching for was teratoma. A teratoma is a rare type of tumour that includes hair and teeth and all that stuff. And what I will say is that, as you've said already, we are going to have a discussion about the end, which you talked about in that interview, well done for not giving anything away. We are going to have a spoiler discussion at the end of take two. It will be at the very, very end of take two. So don't listen to it before seeing the film unless you want to, because there is no way.

You're absolutely fine for this in the same way that it basically throws up a bunch of problems. As I said in the interview, I don't think I've had that kind of issue in a, it's a bit like, so everybody knows what happens in the last James Bond film. Okay. There's a, there's, when that final scene happens, everybody wanted to talk about it, but obviously in a review, you can't talk about it. So it's a review, you can't talk about it. No, absolutely. It's a similar kind of thing that everybody will stand around wanting to talk about the final two minutes. We can't obviously do that in the review, but we will do it in take two at the end in the spoiler, but not now.

On other matters, this is the third in the 28 series, the second to be written and directed by Danny Boyle and Alex Garland, because obviously 28 weeks later was Juan Carlos Fresnadillo and that was a standalone separate thing. This was shot, as you said in the interview, back to back with the fifth installment, which is coming in January, and then there is theoretically a sixth, because this sequel is, as is the way nowadays, the first part of an American trilogy. The setting is post-apocalyptic milieu, not a million miles away from that of The Last of Us, the remnants of human society, eking out an isolated existence in a world filled with marauding infected zombies. Very specifically, this is a kind of post-Brexit situation in which

the UK is quarantined because Europe seems to have done okay, but we are the last pestilential outpost and so there are, it's a fantasy, Simon. So there are patrol boats patrolling the waters to make sure that it just all stays here. And 12 year old Spike played, as you said, by Alfie Williams is growing up on this remote island off the Northeast coast, which is connected to the mainland by a woman in black style causeway, which opens up to let people and then closes.

There's only very specific times that you can go across it. And Danny Boyle said in that interview that you did, brilliant interview, incidentally, that this first one is about family, family, you know, the nature of family in this case, dysfunctional nature of family. I do think that Alfie Williams has something of the spark of Alex Etel, who was the kid in millions, which was, which Danny was talking about. Also, of course, there's, there are allusions to cares and, and, and Di Bradley. So his mother played by Jodie Comer is ill in stark contrast to his father, Jamie played by Aaron

Taylor Johnson, who just can't wait to take the boy scavenging on the mainland across the causeway. You get his first kill of the infected, presumably getting some supplies, because the mainland is overrun by the infected. But we also discover that out there, and I don't think this is a plot spoiler because I think this is in the trailer and everything else, there is a character called Dr. Kelson, who is played by Ralph Fiennes, who is a sort of Kurtzian character who we hear that he seems to spend his time burning the bodies of the dead and erecting memento mori. There's a thing in the trailer and on the poster which says, time didn't heal anything, which I think is a very good tagline.

The film opens with the Teletubbies. This isn't just like a cheap gag. It opens with a bunch of kids watching Teletubbies because these are people living in the remnants of a society which is now lost and of which only fragments remain. Early sections of the film play out to that Rudyard Kipling poem, boots, boots, boots, boots, you know, there's no discharge in the war. We also have that juxtaposed against the St Crispin's Day speech, which Danny Boyle mentioned in that interview from Henry V. I think the clips that we see are the Olivier version of Henry V. So lots of archery, lots of in the past. This is images of the queen on the wall that look like from the 40s and 50s.

This is England dreaming. This is a dream of an England that was lost ages ago. So society history has stopped and they've gone back to a sort of previous age. And it's a very sort of Julian Temple-esque set up. Lots of movie clips of us repelling invaders interspersed with the current thing, which is that they're in this sort of walled environment in which they have archers on the roof because there's no guns now, it's bows and arrows. Later on, the film is littered with allusions from everything to Kez, to cannibal holocaust, certainly in its visual imagery. There is a repeated view of the sycamore gap tree.

You and I had a discussion about this and we've now clarified it. The reason that that's there is to tell us that we're in an alternative timeline. That this is now, but in an alternative version of now, because obviously in the alternative version now in which there was an outbreak 28 years ago, that tree wouldn't have been cut down because we see it not once but twice and it's very deliberately there. There's also a lot of what Harry Angel in Angel Heart would say there's a lot of religion in this. So we start with, again, it's in the trailer, there's an assault on a church in which zombies come through the stained glass windows in which we see

a priest with a crucifix saying, you know, redemption, judgment there, whatever it is. And there's a lot of religion at the very, very beginning. There is a talismanic crucifix that is passed at the very beginning that during the course of the drama will then recur, albeit in inverted form. There's an appearance of the angel of the north. I mean, you don't have to scratch very hard at the subtext to say that there's a lot of religion. Not necessarily religion, as in God and the devil, but a lot of the trappings of religion. There's also a kind of children of men style miracle. Is it a miracle? Kind of happens somewhere in the middle, which either nods towards possible redemption or terrible damnation.

And of course, you've got this whole thing shot by Anthony Dodd Mantle, who was the most kinetic DOP. You've got that really urgent feeling to the chase sequences, the attack sequences, the zombies running. Because bear in mind, this is the film, along to some extent with the remake of Dawn of the Dead that gave us the fleet-footed zombie. Those scenes have real breathless edge of your seat energy. I mean, I'm sure that you felt the same way about it.

You do feel you're imperiled. Yes, terrifying. Obviously, as soon as you see the causeway, you know that the causeway is going to be there for a reason. That's a good thing, is that the causeway is a really good idea. I mean, because it just is a good idea. There's a path and it only opens and closes at certain times. Incidentally, despite all the carnage that's on screen, 15. 15 for strong, bloody violence, gore, horror, very strong language.

15 kids today, none of them are born. There isn't anything in there that, it has to be deeply offensive material, doesn't it? Yes. Put to be an 18. No, no. Yeah, but it's meaty. I don't know that it had the same impact as the first one because when the first one came out it was like, okay, I haven't seen this before and obviously is Danny Boyle himself said one of the reasons this is happened is because a lot of ideas from the original twenty eight days later

have now sort of passed into the bloodstream of mainstream entertainment so it was part of the reason shouldn't we go back and do this? Since we were kind of part of all of that. Yes. And then there is the end. And as I said before, we are going to discuss the ending in detail at the end of take two, if I, if we just, if we just don't discuss that for the moment and say, just on the basis of what we've got, it's exciting, it's well-made it's weird. I mean, it's a weird film. It's got loads and loads of, of ideas that it wants to talk about all the time. And it certainly left me thinking, okay, I need to know where this goes, where this goes from here. And I should say that you sent a text saying, has anyone else seen this?

Because I need to talk about this. And I said, no. And you rang me and said, is it terrible? I went, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, I do think it's fantastic film. And it is thrilling, as I said in the interview, but the ending is so unexpected that you will, before you discuss, it's kind of, it sort of overshadows everything else. So you'll just have to hear the spoiler conversation for this to make sense. But when you see it, boy, you will certainly it sort of overshadows everything else. So you'll just have to hear the spoiler conversation for this to make sense.

But when you see it, boy, you will certainly understand. Can I just say, there's also a laugh out loud joke which Ray Fiennes delivers, which is very, very most excellent in fact. I think he's particularly good. He seems to be enjoying himself, didn't he? I mean, he seemed to be enjoying the role didn't he? Yeah, I think he did. Yeah, and you talked about how the whole thing starts

with Teletubbies, which becomes apparently very relevant to the way the second film develops. And there's a connection between the Teletubbies and this ending, which we're referring to. But I like that thing that they're living in the remnants of a society. Yeah, but do you remember, it'd be interesting to talk to Alex Garland about this sometime. When we discussed Warfare, that film starts with, and you think I'm in the wrong film,

because it starts with a kind of a sexy keep fit video from the 1980s, 1990s. Yes, that's right. What is this we're watching? Then it pulls back and you see all the squaddies, and they're about to go out on manoe It's sort of this and Alex Garland clearly wrote that and Alex Garland wrote this. And this time we're all sitting around watching the Teletubbies. You go, Oh, hang on. And then it pulls back and we see the kids who are watching it. So it's, I mean, I might be reading too much into it, but that feels like a very, this is Alex Garland's thinking, well, it worked there. So it's going to work with this too.

There is, there is also in that early thing, there, it worked there, so it's going to work with this too. There is also in that early thing, by the time the Teletubbies get to go, big hug, you think, yeah, no. And the juxtaposition of what happens after they've seen the Teletubbies does kind of heighten the terror. Yeah, that's what I mean. That's exactly what I mean. Because I think if I remember it rightly, because I just saw it yesterday, while the terror is going on, it cuts back to the Teletubbies going, big hug. Yeah. It might spoil the Teletubbies for you. That's certainly. Okay. So more about 28

years later, when we get to take two at the very end, the spoiler will be klaxoned and you will not listen to it by mistake. So, and after all that shock and horror, you know what people need? Well, I feel that there's only one place we can go from here. We're heading into the laughter lift. If Danny Boyle was in charge of the laughter lift, there'd be a couple of gags and then a beheading.

That's what I'm thinking. Anyway actually beheading might be more fun than this first joke. Okay go ahead. Hey Mark, the good lady who's ceramic is tearing doors is very keen for me to keep up my fitness and has suggested doing some lunges to work the old glutes, the quads and the hamstrings. That would be a big step forward. Right right yeah no I'd prefer the beheading I just had a detective constable knock on my door before we started recording he said hello Simon Mayo I'm looking for a man with one eye I said if you use both eyes you might find him a bit quicker detective

constable I bid you good evening no wonder clear out Simon Paul busy this week what do you call time to what do you call a swine who's ready for the forthcoming apocalypse I don't know. Prepper pig. Prepper pig? What's a prepper? A prepper is someone who's got like got a secret energy source, got you know two weeks supply of water. Oh that's you? Fine. A prepper? That joke only works if you've heard what we just you have. No no. You've got a whole basement of surviving as army of cliques. I'm inclined towards Prepperdom, but in America, of course, they take it very seriously because they have guns and things like that.

But a Prepper is a well-known... Whereas here we have boxes of cereal. I've never heard the word Prepper before, so I didn't get that joke. But now that you've explained it to me, it's not funny. Everyone needs to have like an alternative energy source, printed out bank statements, cash, water and tin food. More of this later because this did come up in conversation in Take Two anyway. We'll come back to that.

Mark's going to be talking about what in the next bit? LEO, animated newie. Oh yeah, okay. Back up to this. Your business doesn't move in a straight line. Some days bring growth. Back up to this. when you can't. Don't let life's challenges stand in the way of your success. Protect what you've built today. Visit CanadaLife.com slash business protection to learn more. Canada Life. Insurance, investments, advice. This episode is brought to you by MUBI, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema. MUBI is the place to discover ambitious films by visionary filmmakers, all carefully

handpicked so you can explore the best of cinema streaming anytime, anywhere. And Simon, I'm just going to put down this damn fine coffee, get straight to it. Twin Peaks is streaming on Mubi from June the 13th onwards to celebrate its 35th anniversary. I have just watched all of series one and series two back to back. I am about to embark on the return. I was knocked out once again by just how fantastic Twin Peaks is. Brilliant Central Forwards by Karl McLaughlin. Superbly created by David Lynch and Mark Frost. Brilliant, groundbreaking television. Watch an episode every day once a day and give yourself a present. By signing up to Mubi, you can try MubiBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com slash Kermit and Mayo.

That's MUBI.com slash Kermit and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. Okay, we're back. Although if you're a Vanguardista, obviously we're just going mysteriously from one item to the next. The next item is a very entertaining review brought to you by Monk Herman. Yes. So Elio, which is the new sci-fi adventure from Pixar, co-directed by Dumbest Shee who helmed the Oscar winning short, Bow, and the Oscar nominated Turning Red.

I think I'm right in saying she was the first woman to get sole directing credit on a Pixar feature. So here co-directors are Madeline Sharafian and Adrienne Molina, the latter of whom we know from Coco. Voice cast includes Zoe Saldana, who obviously recently won an Oscar for Amelia Perez, Shirley Henderson, who I love. Story revolves around 11-year-old title character, lives with his aunt after losing his parents. The aunt wanted to become a trainee astronaut, but is now basically looking after this troubled child. Child has their head in the stars, is intent on making contact with the beyond. This is clearly to fill a hole

here on Earth that Elio is lonely and desperately, desperately wants to be abducted by aliens. A wish which comes true. Here's a clip from the trailer. You might not believe me right now, but this will be good for you. All I ever wanted was to find a place to fit in. It's really happening! Hello! Welcome. Allow me to adjust your gravity. I'm fine. Gravity on. Can I trouble you for a. I'm fine. Gravity on.

Can I trouble you for a DNA sample? Where do you want to be? Wow. You get the idea. So, you know, you can't find a place to fit in on Earth, abducted, yanked into the converse where beings of all planets are looking for someone to negotiate with a monstrous interplanetary warlord. Elio is deliberately misidentified as the ruler of Earth and then sets off to solve the problems of the galaxy. So the film is rated PG for mild threat, scary scenes,

and violence. I think they also ought to have said PG for trippy hallucinogenic weirdness and some very bizarre plot twists, not least when Elio is cloned and then later befriends the worm-like child of the warlord, more cloning Ahoy. And there were a couple of scenes in it, and I'm sure it's not just me. I was thinking, okay, that's Invasion of the Body Snatchers, that's Dawn of the Dead, and I think that's the thing, but in a good way. The thing with, if you remember Turning Red, we had quite a lot of correspondence about Turning Red. So it's a fable about adolescence and identity. Inside Out was famous, Inside Out and Inside Out 2 were famously about the ways in which we perceive the world and we grow and we learn to deal with sadness and worry and all those

things. So, apparently, this project began with Adrian Molina directing and America Forever playing Elio's mom. And then the new directors came in and the role became the aunt in order to give Elio more of a sense of loss of outsidersness, of not fitting in, in order to make the outer space, the desire to be taken to outer space work. Whether or not it does work is, I think, a matter for debate. If this doesn't have the immediate, timeless, okay, I get it quality of something like Inside Out. Bear in mind, I thought the same was true of Inside

Out 2 and that's turned out to be a huge hit. I mean, visually, it's really fun to watch. It is interesting how the very best sci-fi animations and now sci-fi in a vertical was live action features kind of look the same. So because the way in which science fiction as a genre is done is a lot of it is done through computer graphics anyway. So you've got that. I mean, I remember as a kid, I used to love going to sci-fi movies because I love the thing about the loneliness of space, the vastness of the cosmic sky, the thrill of warp speed

travel. And you do get all of that stuff from Elio. So it looks really good. It's out of this world. I mean, I have never taken hallucinogens, okay, because they terrify me. The whole idea of taking a hallucinogenic substance terrifies me.

After watching Elio, I thought, I don't know, maybe that's kind of what it feels like. And at times I wonder whether the narrative was just too bonkers for its own good. But I have to keep reminding myself that there have been many instances in which I have said that about a kids movie, and the kids are perfectly fine with it. They just go with it. They have a malleability of perception that just enables them to zone in on the heart of the story. And the heart of the story

is a story about somebody who is lonely and isolated and grieving, finding a place to fit in by going into space against their better judgment, announcing that they are the ruler of Earth and then having to negotiate with a weird wardlord. I mean, I found it entertaining. It was just the right length. Um, I don't know that it has the same sort of classic cut through that, that some of the greater pixels do. I'd be really, really interested to know what younger viewers think in terms of the narrative, because I did spend a lot of it going, what, sorry, pardon, what? But I enjoyed it, you know, at kermitandmayor.com. Before we're done, a quick email from Doug Deans.

Thank you, Doug. Following on from Mark's wonderfully pithy review of Falling into Place, and Mark's urge to slap it, it got me thinking about language. More specifically, the German language. Even more specifically, German language, even more specifically German compound words. For those not in the know, the German language has a magnificent facility for taking incredibly complex emotions or philosophies and boiling them down into a single word or phrase. Schadenfreude, for example, and I think as I've mentioned many times, my favorite, which is Värslinn-Vessarung, which is an improvement which makes things worse. favourite, which is Veselin Veserung, which is an improvement, which makes things worse. And also Doug mentions another favourite, which is Trepenvitz, a stair joke. A stair joke?

Yeah. The feeling you have when some time after a social gathering, the perfect comeback or one-liner pops into your head. Oh, as you're walking up the stairs. Yes. Oh, I see. Very good. So back to Mark's review. Mark summed up his thoughts on the film with a wonderfully brutal one-liner. I wanted to

slap it. Yes. German has a word for this very feeling. Of course it does. And the word is the word is back pfeifen gesicht, which roughly means a face in need of a good smack or someone with a slappable face. JD Vance, for example. With this in mind, that's me saying it as opposed to Doug, with this in mind, I propose a minor alteration to the word specifically for Mark. Instead of back, back fiefen gesicht, it would be back fiefen filmen. So a word to encapsulate the feelings and frustrations of Mark and others who feel that a film needs a good slap.

Back-Pfeifen-Filman. Back-Pfeifen-Filman, yes. Any other films, says Doug, that you can think of which need a back-Pfeifen-Filman. I guess a slappable film is interesting because it's not a film that's rubbish, but maybe just, I don't know, annoying. Exactly. It is a film that needs a slap. I just want to be absolutely clear about this. It is not a film in which the people in the film need slapping. It is not what we're saying. It is that the film itself needs a slap.

Correspondence at Kermit and Mayo.com for any further suggestions. That is the end of take one. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh and Heather. The producer was Jem, who's just got a big new role in an interesting TV drama, which we'll talk about. The redactor was Simon Poole, who hasn't got a role in a big TV drama. If you're not following the pod already, please do so wherever you get your podcasts.

Mark, what is your film of the week? Oh, well 28 years later. More of which in take two, which has landed adjacent to this particular podcast. Thank you for listening.