Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Amanda Seyfried… as a Mancunian?

Episode Date: February 19, 2026

Some exciting news—The Take is now on Patreon: www.patreon.com/kermodeandmayo. Become a Vanguardista or an Ultra Vanguardista to get video episodes of Take Two every week, plus member‑only chat rooms, polls and submissions to influence the show, behind‑the‑scenes photos and videos, the monthly Redactor’s Roundup newsletter, and access to a new fortnightly LIVE show—a raucous, unfiltered lunchtime special with the Good Doctors, new features, and live chat so you can heckle, vote, and have your questions read out in real time. Amanda Seyfried is our special guest this week. She’s starred in Mean Girls, The Housemaid and Mamma Mia!, but she’s never been a Mancunian... until now. She joins Simon alongside writer-director Mona Fastvold to talk about The Testament of Ann Lee, in which Seyfried stars as the titular leader of the Shakers. You might not have heard of her and the 18th century radical religious sect she founded—and we promise you’ve definitely never seen a musical about her. Seyfried talks about her struggle to crack a Manchester accent for the role, never mind all that ecstatic song and dance—and we hear from Fastvold about he old-school filmmaking techniques that helped her and co-writer husband Brady Corbet bring this unique story to the screen on shoestring budget. Mark will review The Testament of Ann Lee next week, but we’ve got four more movie reviews for you in the meantime—it's a packed show! First, The Secret Agent, where paranoia and deception collide as an ex-academic gets caught up in South American political turmoil. Then there’s If I Had Legs I'd Kick You, a darkly comic tale of maternal burnout pushed to surreal extremes. We also have Wasteman—a gritty prison drama starring Rye Lane’s David Jonsson. And finally, Good Luck Have Fun Don't Die, a genre-bending evil-tech adventure starring Sam Rockwell. Plus all the usual delights: the box office top 10, the unpredictable joy of the Laughter Lift, and your tip-top correspondence. Don’t miss it. Timecodes 00:00:00 Show starts 00:10:09 The Secret Agent review 00:22:02 Box Office Top 10 00:39:24 Mona Fastvold and Amanda Seyfried interview 01:01:24 If I Had Legs I’d Kick You review 01:07:35 Laughter Lift 01:12:09 Wasteman review 01:19:13 Good Luck, Have Fun, Don’t Die review You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo Please take our survey and help shape the future of our show: https://www.kermodeandmayo.com/survey EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Mooby, the global film company that champions great cinema. From iconic directors to emerging otters, there's always something new to discover. Yes, and coming to Mooby in the UK, this February, we have the brilliant sentimental value by Yoakim Trier. We reviewed this when it came out. He's the guy who directed the worst person in the world. Film did really well at Cam, won the Grand Prix, a bunch of European awards, and he's now nominated for nine Academy Awards and eight BAFTAs. I think it's fantastic. I think it's really moving, really exciting, really funny, but also insightful. And I think Yorkshire is one of the finest directors working today.

It's definitely one of the best films around at the moment. To stream the best of cinema, you can try Mooby free for 30 days at Mooby.com slash curmode and mayo. That's Mubi.com slash Kermud and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. Here, Mark, what do the films die my love? I'm still here. And it was just an accident all. have in common. This is a set-up for another

of those terrible laughter lift jokes, isn't it? Which I thought we'd done with for another week. No, this is no laughing matter. Okay, go on. Well, not only are they some of your favourite film recommendations from last year, but there are also all films you'll be able to stream anywhere in the world when you travel abroad, even

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Viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas. Plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in questions, Schmestians. You can get all that extra stuff via Apple Podcasts or head to extra takes.com for non-fruit-related devices. There's never been a better time to become a Vanguard Easter. Free offer, now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter, we... We salute you. Well, it looks as though you've gone around to Ali's place again,

because you're in the attic there with a couple guitars. I've moved in. I've moved in. I'm having roof work done, and so I've moved in here, basically. Wow. Roof work. There's a thing that goes on forever, cost at least £30,000,

and no one knows the difference. Yeah. Hey, listen, how are you? I'm not amazing. It has to be said. Yeah. I'm impressed. you've turned it because I got a message from you last night that said I really don't know

whether this is going to be okay because you've got I yeah I mean it's a combination of a really weird cough and um insomnia so and obviously one one feeds into the other no last night I'd had this like this coughing spasm which which was not which was looked I probably looked as I was possessed by the devil and in the previous generations I would probably be an exercise immediately. Did you know that in the history of exorcism, one of the, one of the symptoms of demonic possession is hiccuping because there was a pope who hiccpped to death. And they concluded that he was possessed by demons who had caused him to hiccup to death. So a coughing spasm may be a sign of demonic possession, but had you started hiccuping, we definitely would have

called Father Carus. Yeah, yeah, no, I haven't done that. I had a grandmother who, was the only person I've ever come across, who called them hiccoffs, which is how they were originally, how it was originally written. But I think, hiccough, it's not a hiccough, is it? It's a hiccough. Hick off sounds like it's some kind of country duel. But no, it was, this was, that's how she said, oh, you've got an attack of the hiccoughs, which is very strange. That country dual thing, weirdly, of course, hiccuping was what the, the Buddy Holly vocal start was always referred to the eh-ah-ah-ah,

you know, uh-uh-e-ah. Right. That was always called the buddy holly's hiccuping style, which then, of course, became the default

for early rockabilly. And very excellent. And in fact, we should now spend an hour playing some early Buddy Holly. We should do. I've got Buddy Holly 78s.

Do you know that? I've got a couple of Buddy Holly 78s. I bought in record fairs like years and years ago. And I've no idea whether they're valuable, but I'm just very proud of having them.

In general, 78s tend not to be valuable. But I reckon if you had an Elvis, 78 that's going to be worth something don't you think? I mean the collector's market is weird because there's all these things that everybody thought for ages and ages was really valuable and now it turns out that nobody cares anymore so so it just isn't but I do like the buddy Holly 78s because it's just a it's just a you know it's a big chunk of stuff we were the dodges once got offered the possibility to do a 78 RPM version of we had an album that we recorded at

sun studio and it was 10 tracks and they this person who was doing this said, I can do you 578s with, you know, a track on each side. So you could buy the whole album as a collection of 78s. We went, wow, that's amazing. How much would it cost? He said, around £200 each, and you'd have to pre-sell them all in advance.

Wow. So we said none. And speaking of Elvis, we both had quite an Elvis-y week. We did. In different ways. When do we get to talk about the Basinian? Epic, Elvis Presley in concert is out. next week, I did Baz on stage at the IMAX for the IMAX presentation, and you spoke to him

for greatest hits. Yeah. And it was, I'm sure you've got some fantastic photographs, but he looks the most Hollywood producer, director that you've ever seen in your life. He's dressed to impress. He's dressed to impress. Yeah. Mirror fronted ray bands, a fur jacket, an Elvis T-shirt, and lots of medallions. Yeah. Yeah. It was incredible. There's a man who leads with the front foot when it comes to style. Did he surprise you with any conversational? No, because the thing was, I was just, it was fairly short introduction. And they said to me, look, you know, we've only got like 10, 15 minutes.

So, you know, I said 10, 15 minutes, I'll ask him one question and then he'll speak for 10 or 15 minutes. And that's pretty much what happened. Because I said to him, if you get a chance, because he said, oh, I know, Mark, you know, he was one of the first to like my stuff, you know. And so on I said, if you have a chance, when you're talking to him, make sure that you say how important it is that the film finishes with Bono reading his poem about Elvis, because Mark would really not enjoy that bit. But you must say how important it is, and I'm sure Mark really liked it. But I knew he would do it just because, you know, in the heat at the moment and all that stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks for trying to set me up for that. No, that didn't happen. Anyway, so we talk about it next week. Yeah, talking about next week, which I'm really looking forward to because, you know, Plot spoiler, I thought it was fab. Yeah, well, plot spoiler, I also thought it was fab. I didn't see it in IMAX, which I would quite like to.

I sent a message, I sent a text to Sanjee, and he said he'd seen it, obviously, and he's going to go and see it in IMAX just because, why were you? Yeah. It's a burning hunk of love in IMAX. A hunker, hunker burning love. When we talk about films for this week, what are you going to be reviewing?

Well, it's an absolutely packed show, okay? So, I mean, obviously we're in awards season. We have reviews of The Secret Agent, which is shaping up as a big awards contender. If I had legs, I'd kick you, which I know you've seen as well. Waste Man. And good luck, have fun, don't die. Plus, our very special guests... It's Amanda Wright said, Cyphred.

And explain that. Basically, it's Amanda Seyfried and Director Mona Fastfold talking about Testament of Anley. However, having looked up the right way to say it, as you're... hear in the interview, it still sounds wrong to say Amanda Seifred, which is how she does like her name to be pronounced. But it just does sound like right, said, Fred. Right, Syfitt said, so Syfred. Yeah. Anyway, it's one of the more unusual films that you're going to see this year, I would think. It's all about the founding of the Shakers, a bunch of crazy folk. It's a musical. Well, yes. Sort of.

Anyway. We're reviewing it next week because it's not out until next week. So there's a hunker, hunker burning musicals next week. Okay, but we can talk around it. We'll talk around it, yeah. When we get there. And in Take 2, what are you up to? Take 2, there's another film release, Cold Storage,

which is a sort of science fiction, horror, satire from writer David Kep. And from the small screen, Small Profits, which is the new McKenzie Crook series. Did you, you said, did he come into Greatest Hits? Yes, fine. Yes, he did. Yes, well, there's so much talk about small profits. I suspect a lot of people will have seen the whole thing via IPlayer. But I think it's probably on episode three, I think, if you're just watching it normally on Monday night on BBC 2.

Plus, all the extra stuff. Five-question film club. We'll pick a film that's on free view or streaming and then tackle the five essential questions, which either I say altogether or individually, which I say individually. individually. Plus, as Waste Man is out this week, we'll have further discussions on your top prison dramas. That's in one frame back. Questions, Schmestians, in which we answer the question, which is the best recent film about death and grief and loss and families and denial? Is it Hamnet, goodbye June, or H is for Hawk? I mean, you'll have to listen on for context, because

how do you even, how do you even begin? Correspondence at codemore.com. Alice in Cardiff. I hope you're both well. On the subject of seeing films when you're too young, in the late 80s, my mum was doing a film degree, looking after my sisters and I kept her rather busy. So she sometimes got quite close to deadlines and just had to watch whichever film she was studying ASAP. One evening, she struggled to get me to sleep and the only way she could get me to settle was on the sofa next to her. She was studying Nosferatu, the 1922 very version. She waited until I was asleep and clicked play, except I wasn't asleep. I lay there in silence knowing I was getting away with something terrible. I was four years old. I mean, I know it's

1922, but it's still not the kind of images that you need. No, nightmarishly creepy. Nightmarishly creepy. Unlike one of your previous correspondents, I'm not sure I can claim to be anything other than a wrongan, but I can confirm it remains for all of my favorite films. Down with baddies, take a tongue and so on. Thank you, Alice. And, uh, Parkage McGraw, I think I've got that right. Dear Freebie and the Bean, one of your correspondents mentioned people going to see Hamlet, thinking it was Hamnet. Yes. It's not quite the same thing, but an adult education class that I teach art to were booked by another tutor to see ghosts by Henry Gibson at the Abbey Theatre here in Dublin.

When discussing it before they went, they said they hoped it was as good as the film version where Demi Moore and Patrick Swayze have a right good old time. I said nothing. Thank you, Parkage. Is that, I think that's an Irish first name, so it could be pronounced any old way. Can I just do your pronunciation correction? Because as she used to say, she's not, she's not Demi Moore, she's DeMe more, because she's not half of anything. Okay. I suspect that might be the least significant of the things that I got wrong, because I'm hoping that Parkage is roughly inappropriate. approximation of your name.

Correspondence at codemoe.com. Okay, let's do a movie that's out. Okay, so you will have heard a lot of buzz about Secret Agent, which is a new film from Brazilian writer-director Claibor Mendozofilio, whose back catalogue includes Aquarius, which is a film I reviewed on the show here,

which I really, really loved. So this has got right at the heart of it, Wagner, who apparently first Brazilian to win best actor at Cannes, went on to win a Golden Globe, One of four Oscar nominations that the film has, others include Best International Feature and Best Film. So the first thing to say about Secret Agent is how to describe it. The tagline description is a neo-noir historical political thriller, which doesn't even begin to describe just how strange and unpredictable it is.

I mean, I was thinking, you might, when I was watching it, I kept asking myself, what genre is this? because it's very, very hard to pin down. Some people have compared it to, for example, Walter Salas is I'm still here because it's about life under a corrupt dictatorship, but it's also about responsibility and masculinity, and weirdly, the complexities of academic funding and, I would argue, the rise of strongman popularism in contemporary politics. So it's set in 1970s, Brazil, during the military dictatorship,

begins with, Wagner's character, pulls into a gas station in this little car. The gas station is in the middle of nowhere and on the ground is a dead body with some cardboard over it and nobody is saying anything about the fact that there's a dead body there least of all the guy running the gas station

I'm going to play you a clip but I'm going to translate the clip in advance so that you can understand it so basically the garage guy says you want me to fill her up looks up to the body says don't worry about that it's okay you want to fill her up and he says yeah fill her up

but what about that? And the garage guy says, oh, it happened last Sunday. Poor devil came with a knife to steal oil cans. Rivenaldo, the knight guy, grabbed a 12-gauge, shot him in the face and chest. He never got up again. He got what he deserved. But don't worry, you're a customer. That's nothing to do with you.

Okay? Here's the clip. It's to complete? It's to be able to do with you there? Is it to complete? It's to complete? Yeah, it's to complete. Yeah, it's that's that.

That's that it was. This was, it was a day. I'm happy to rob a lot of oil, with a pecheera in the room that's a man who I work here at night. P. Gerego a 12, gave two TB, one in a cache of those peat and a car, and he'll be a man, he's a man, mellant. It's a me, it's a man, me're aene. You can't.

It's been to be there. It's nothing to be it. See? So, basically, the guy in the car is a widowed professor who's returning to his hometown and he moves into a place that we only gradually come to realize is a kind of refuge for political dissidents. It's overseen by Donna Sebastian, and brilliantly played by Tanya Maria,

who's the kind of matriarch of the community. And he's a former academic. Apparently, somewhere in the past, he crossed a corrupt minister. He adopts a pseudonym, Marchello. He gets a job in the local identity card office, and he starts searching for records of his own deceased mother, of whom there are no records.

He has a son who is completely obsessed with the idea of seeing George. after having seen a poster for it. And his father-in-law runs a cinema. Meanwhile, in what appears to be a completely separate narrative, a severed leg has been found within the belly of a shark. Whose leg is it? Where did it come from?

This is in real life. And then there's a third strand in which a corrupt official hires two hitmen to track and kill the professor for reasons which are initially unclear, but are obviously motivated by hatred and revenge. So apparently the script for this was partly written when the director who grew up in this area was making pictures of ghosts a documentary, which we're going to talk about next week, because that's out next week as a movie release.

And key scenes in the film play out in the projection booth of this cinema. So there's a lot of cinema going on in the background of it. In fact, one of the things that's happening is that there's a very famous horror movie from the 1970s, which is playing, which is terrifying audiences. the whole thing is shot on vintage lenses which give it the feeling the kind of the atmosphere of a film from the period that it's set in so it has that kind of 1970s thing hard baked into it and in fact the director did a season at the lincoln center in america which was movies that he was inspired by which included point blank um investigation of citizens and above suspicion

uh Spielberg's close encounters 20 years and so it was a bunch of it was a bunch of of movies that were kind of that were feeding into this vision. Also, apparently, the story of the severed leg is a real thing because apparently there were newspaper reports at the time that this severed hairy leg, which had been found, had gone on the rampage and was terrorizing people. It became, it was a news story. And it was a news story that allowed the news agencies to cover up for the fact that genuine horrible violence was happening by kind of putting it under one of these kind of these mad sort of, you know, local mythology stories. So was the story that this leg on its own was popping around?

Yes, precisely. And there is a moment in the film in which we actually see that brought to life. As I said, in terms of this thing about what genre are we in? One moment, it's a political thriller. One moment it's a thing about university funding. One minute, it's a father and son drama. And then in one section, it is a sort of mocked up B-movie style recreation of a hairy leg, terrorizing local residents.

And all these things are going on at the same time. There's also a final feature appearance by Udo Kia, who's got a fantastic, it's only a small rami. I think it would almost count as a cameo, but a brilliant sort of final appearance. Here's the thing about the film. It sounds from my description like it should not work at all. And one of the most difficult things about it is it's very, very hard to describe

because it works brilliantly, and I can't. quite figure out why. A lot of the time, you know, movies settle into a particular groove, a particular genre, a particular, okay, I know what this is saying, I know why it's saying it, I know how it's saying it. The thing with the secret agent is it never does that. And the argument, I suppose, would be that actually the way in which we experience real life is a myriad of things going on at the same time, all of which appear to be from different moves. But the real genius of it is, it doesn't play like it is disconnected. In fact, quite the opposite. I watched it with a good lady professor her indoors, who suddenly at one point said, this has turned into a drama about university

funding. And of course, then she got very excited. But she was, you know, each to their own. Each to their own. But the brilliant thing about it is, it is completely engrossing, and it keeps you on your toes and you absolutely, you believe in the characters, you love the characters, you live in this world and this world with all its things going on. Then I listened to an interview with Fagamara about when he was talking about what he thought the film was about. And he said, you know, definitely for him, one of the things that it's about is about masculinity. And it's about this kind of strongman politics, you know, politics of dictatorship. And what happens to people's lives under dictatorships? Like I said, that whole early image of the dead body

just lying on the ground. And incidentally, when the police do, turn up, they don't turn up to deal with the dead body, they turn up to interrogate the guy driving the car who they're sure must have done something wrong and they can extort money from him. So it is about the madness of life under a corrupt political system. In fact, weirdly enough at one point I thought of Terry Gilliam's Brazil, which I'll mention again later on. Brazil isn't called Brazil because it's set in Brazil, it's because of a tune, you know, the watercolors was it anyway. But that whole thing about if you live in a system which is completely corrupt, everything around you seems to be mad.

Honestly, it's an extraordinary film, and it's got a brilliant central performance, and I think it's great that it's received such universal acclaim, because it really demonstrates that cinema can be as adventurous and as ambitious as it wants, and audiences will go with it, because audiences are much smarter than a lot of the mainstream Hollywood production line imagined. Presumably it's funny.

There are moments of real black comedy There are moments of absolute tragedy There are moments that are kind of sentimental Like what's that phrase All human life is here And it is I mean you can't reanimate a leg

And get it to go off on its adventures No that is funny Being absurd Yeah But absurdist As opposed to absurd And ironically In a few short moments

You're going to be doing If I had legs I'd kick you So that kind of continues the theme. Waste Man, good luck, have fun, don't die. And our special guests are director, Mona Fastfold, and Amanda Syfred Dibner, who will be talking about the new Steeplejack film, The Testament of Anne Lee.

We'll also have the UK and box office here and over there, featuring recaps of everything that's out in the UK cinema, and of course, that laughter lift, which Mark is already, I can see, from the lines on his face, is already delighted at the prospect. Now this segment has been brought to you by Vanguard with International Women's Day taking place in March every year.

Today we're taking a moment to highlight some of the women in film who inspire us on the show. And we've chosen two incredible directors to talk about because, as you may have heard Kate Winslet talking about recently when she came into chat about her directorial debut, there is a real lack of female directors out there and the industry is crying out for more. So this week our pick is the fantastic Lynne Ramsey,

director of Mark's favourite film of last year, Die My Love. she's one of the most exciting directors out there. Mark will explain why she's so special. I remember seeing Lynn Ramsey's first feature film, which was Ratcatcher, and I was just knocked out by it. And I've loved every single feature she's made since then. Morven Caller, her next film, which actually wasn't a hit, but is now been kind of widely reassessed, is thought to be a masterpiece. We need to talk about Kevin. That was my favorite film of the year that that came out. You were never really here, which I think you and I both loved, and then most recently die my love. She has a real poetic sensibility.

She is fearsomely independent. She makes films the way she wants to make them. She doesn't bow down to anyone else's pressure. And she has her own unique vision. I think she is one of the greatest filmmakers currently working. Now, aside from obvious natural talent, great directors can be great because they have the time, confidence and knowledge of experts in the film industry, handling the details.

That'd be nice. And are you suggesting that our top production team are holding us back from greatness? Oh no, not at all. Imagine if you could have the same thing with your finances. Go on. Well, at Vanguard, they do. Vanguard's managed ISER is a stocks and shares ISA, but Vanguard's experts manage your investments for you.

So whoever you are, be an Oscar winning director or one of the 60% of women who say that lack of confidence or knowledge stops them investing, the Vanguard managed ISA could be a great starting point for you to get into investing with confidence. Just search Vanguard managed ISA to find out more. When investing, your capital is at risk. Tax rules apply. This data is sourced by Vanguard. Okay, box office top 10 this week at 13.

Looney Tunes, the day the earth blew up. Which I enjoyed. I mean, I really enjoyed Daffy Duck and Porky Pig fighting against space aliens via bubble gum. I thought it was fun. Number 10 is Avatar, Fire and Ash. Ninth week on release, a staggering. amount of money taken. And so I think, yeah, a palpable hit, although I thought it was really dull. Whistle is number nine here and nowhere over there.

Kind of so-so horror movie. Kind of unmemorable. Doesn't surprise me that it's only gone in at number nine. It's sort of okay. It's passable. Zach from Seattle, Washington, a state of America, is how he signs. Hello from across the Atlantic. I've been a listener for over a decade, going back to my wonderful years of living in London. I kept you in my ears as life brought me back across the Atlantic to my origin city of Seattle. Many weeks, your wittings are one of the few gasps of sanity I can enjoy as the world swings erratically from chaos, capital K, to wicked capital W, seemingly having entered its late stage gold-bloomium era. And so it is with great pleasure

that I may finally be able to write him with some helpful notes on a fairly American topic. Okay. Basketball terminology. Right. Okay. In the latest pod during Mark's review of Whistle, he's searching for the words to describe the winning act of point scoring in basketball. Yes. He begins at first with net before pivoting to basket. While basket is colloquially correct here, the technically correct, and therefore the best kind of correct, is field goal, as in the player has just scored the winning field goal. Okay. So there you go. Tickety-tonk and down with closed minds, cowardice and those who fear themselves. Up with the unusual and proud and all that kind of good stuff. The thing that I have gleaned from watching movie, and bear in mind, I know nothing about basketball other than what I've seen in movies,

is that as long as your feet have left the ground at the point that the timer runs out, the, you know, the ball flying in the air and then going to the, you know, can take as long as it wants. And, of course, whenever they do it in movies, it takes five minutes, because they go. into slow motion. You see everybody looking at it, you know, but I think that's how it works. Yes. Anyway, Baskets Fine, field goal is worth remembering. Very good. Number eight is Stitchhead. Which I enjoyed. I thought it was kind of, it was amiable, amiable fun. Number seven is Hamnet, number 16 in America. Yeah, sixth week in the charts, still doing very well. And obviously, shaping up as a big awards

contender. We'll talk about this more later on, but I think Jesse Buckley is a dead lock for best actress now certainly at the BAFTAs and I would also say at the Oscars. Number six, here, number five in America, Zootropolis two. Again, 12th week. Just, it's the gift that keeps giving. That there, Amanda Seifred, UK number five, number 11 in America is The Housemaid. Which I'm honestly astonished at how well the Housemaid has done. I mean, I really had no idea that it was going to have this kind of success.

So that just goes to show critics don't know nothing. Send help number four here and there. Yeah, this is the Sam Ramey sort of horror, satire, adventure, survival romp, which I thought was terrifically good fun. I mean, I saw it at 10 o'clock on a Monday morning, and I spent the whole of the rest of the day with a smile on my face because I enjoyed it so much. Crime 101 is in your entry at number three. This to me is a terrific heist movie.

I thought it was a really, really well put together, highest. and I love a good heist film. I mean, it refers back to a bunch of movies that I like. People have made kind of comparisons with heat, but I think it refers back. I mean, obviously there's a whole conversation about Bullet in it. But I thought it was really well done. It does that thing that you really want a heist movie to do.

You get all the mechanics, all the plot mechanics, all that stuff, but you also get character development, and it's about something. And I think it is about something, the value that we put on things and how we assess our own success. I thought it was a really smart film. Adam Ferrand says, Dear Bullitt and the Thomas Crown Affair,

Long-term list of Vanguard Easter, multiple-time emailer. I write this, having just seen Crime 101, in only my second visit to the cinema so far this year. I went in expecting a fairly passable thriller with some big names and enough intrigue to fill a couple of hours on a Sunday morning. What I got was, without doubt, one of the best films I've seen in a long time.

I'm so pleased. Hemsworth, Ruffalo, Barry et al, are all on point, and it would be remiss of me, not to mention the superb score from blank mass that perfectly complimented the film, in every way. I look forward to seeing what's next from Bart Layton and if anything in 2026 can top this. Thank you Adam. Okay, that's... I'm really pleased. I'm really pleased about that.

That's number three in America as well as over here. Nick says Mark Rofalo takes another step closer to his Columbo destiny. That would be fun. By the way, and seeing him as a cop, if you get a chance to see Task, which is a cop show that he's, which is absolutely, I'm sure it's going to come back for another series. I saw it on Sky. I think it's HBO. I think they have it at Sky Atlantic, but Mark Ruffalo and Task is a TV highlight for sure. And number two, but number one in America is goat. This is more basketball. So a goat aspires to be the greatest of all time. Yes. Basketball players, animated sports comedy. It's my friend Van Conner, who's a critic. He's

pointed out that it's basically airbud meets Zootropolis and he's quite right. I mean, it's colourful to look at, but there's not, I mean, I'm not interested in the, in the, sport and I'm not particularly interested in this particular rendition of it. I mean, it's, it's Sony Pictures Animation and it isn't K-pop Demon Hunters. So it's all right. I mean, I'm surprised it's done as well as it has, but then again, I said I was absolutely staggered that the housemaid has done as well as it has. So, and number one in the UK, and number one, Number two in America is Wuthering Heights. Yes, we must have correspondence.

In adverted commas, yes. First of all, an English lecture, courtesy of Sue Sorenson, B-A-M-A-P-HD in Literature, third prize for poetry, 1979, Saskatchewan Writers' Guild Awards, and she is from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. Dear Charlotte and Emily, those critical of the casting of a white Jacob Allaudie as Heath Cliff in the new Wuthering Heights are jumping to conclusions. While scholars have raised the possibility that Heathcliff might have arrived in Liverpool from Africa or otherwise being a person of colour, Emily Bronte's novel never mentions Africa. And while Heathcliff is called six times a gypsy,

it is nearly always in dialogue from characters who hate him. Nellie, our primary source of information, says only that he has black hair and black eyes. Catherine's eyes are also black. Nelly tries to comfort Heathcliff with the idea that maybe his, quote, his father was emperor of China and your mother was an Indian queen. I wonder if readers have taken literally Bronte's liberal use of the adjective black. She often means dark or sinister, not a skin color. If we accept that Heathcliff is described unambiguously as anything, we ignore the challenging narrative structure of Wuthering Heights. There is no reliable narrator. First, we listen to Lockwood, the outsider, the only person who overtly describes Heathcliff's skin color,

quote, a dark-skinned gypsy in aspect, in dress, and manners a gentleman. End of quote. Lockwood seems objective, although his reliability is frankly debatable, as anyone else is in this strange, fantastic book. The majority of the novel has Nellie narrating the story to Lockwood, and within Nellie's story are retold conversations from the considerable past. So, Emily Bronte herself, doesn't tell us anything about Heathcliff's ethnicity. Since not a single character says he is black, it's more likely he's Romany. Heathcliff's place of origin might be almost anywhere in Southeast Europe or Asia.

All we have are hints. Yours in close reading, Sue Sorensen. So I think that's very interesting. But my point would be if his place of origin might be almost anywhere in southeastern Europe or Asia, he's not going to look like Jacob E. and if he is a dark-skinned gypsy in aspect, he's not going to look like Jacob Allard. But anyway, it's nice to be schooled on these things.

Yes. I mean, the only thing I was to say, there is definitely a thing in the novel in which somebody speculates that he might be Laskar, L-A-R, and I looked that up, and that is a sailor from India or Southeast Asia, but it is all absolutely speculative. But thank you for that very, very thorough

and very informed thing. but I still agree with some of the, that from all of those things, I don't think he looks like Jacob but laughty. Yes. Have you seen that poem from a long time ago, Whitey on the Moon? No. It's a fantastic poem and I'll look up at an appropriate moment who does it. A very famous African-American poet.

And it's all about whitey on the moon. So I just think of this as Whitey on the More. Because, you know, if he, whatever he is, he doesn't like to. like that. Anyway. Is Whitey on the moon from like 1916? Is it from like,

so the time of the Harlem cultural festival when there was a whole a bunch of stuff about yeah, they might be sending a man to the moon but they're not fixing

anything down here. It's exactly that. Okay, fine. So that was Whitey on the Moon and this is Whitey on the Moore. Marianne Mitchell from where in Hertfordshire born in Yorkshire

where actually it's dry and sunny quite often. Mark and Simon, if you're a purist, you'll wince at how freely the film rewrites the novel. But if you approach it as a heightened pantomime-style riff on the story. It's an enjoyable, visually lush couple of hours.

Some rewrites work, dropping the clunky Lockwood framing is a mercy, others land far less well. Transforming Nelly from a tough gossiping Yorkshire servant into a refined drifting companion removes a key emotional anchor. Many characters are unrecognisable, from Earnshaw recast as a Dickensian villain to a bizarrely kink-leaning Joseph. Thrusch-cross Grange becomes an absurdly opulent Barbie Mansion. And the second half of the novel, Kathy's daughter, Hatton, the generational tragedy is completely deleted. As you mentioned last week, Mark, that is almost always the case.

And yet, every so often a line from the original text slips through, and the final scene with Heathcliff's famous cry of anguish moved me deeply, not because of the film's story, but because it briefly captured the soul of the book that I adore. Jimmy from Not So Sunny Scarbedos. Dear Sturman Drang and Gary Strang, Mark used the words preposterous and ridiculous at least once in his review. And it is. Proposterous, ridiculous, overwrought, overripe, bonkers, melodramatic, histrionic and absurd. So essentially, every 19th century Gothic novel.

In our screening, many of the scenes involving fish fingers, barking women, and a completely redactable opening sequence that thankfully wasn't in 3D were greeted with titters from the rest of the audience, whilst one particular pop-up book was met with loud laughter and cheers. I also loved the claustrophobic set design and the lurid colour palette. They reminded me of Hammer Horror and Mario Barba with the costumes, particularly Margot Robbie's wardrobe seemingly inspired by Grimm's fairy tales. Despite all this energy, I left the film feeling slightly underwhelmed, mainly due to the chemistry between the two leads.

Margot Robbie is an exceptional actor. Jacob Alourdi is an exceptional actor, but sometimes two rights do make a wrong. And I never felt as though the two characters embodied the mutually destructive elemental force required for the story to emotionally resonate with me. It felt more like spells of Miles Morland drizzle than Hurricane Heathcliff.

Martin Cloons, on the other hand, absolutely crackles like a roaring log fire. He's the star of the film. The star of the film. Playing the grotesquely genial father. How odd to be grotesquely genial. It's absolutely right. Often funny, frightening and utterly pathetic.

A shout out also to the wonderful soundtrack that accompanied our drive home from the cinema. Love the show, Steve, from Jimmy. And speaking of Martin Cloons, Dear Violet Swirl and Anita Bush, third-time emergency emailer, medium-term listener, your podcast is without a doubt my favourite in our house. It's referred to you as just the podcast.

When I knew that I was going to be in Emerald Fennell's Wuthering Heights. Hang on, hang on, hang on. This is from Martin Cloons. It is. We said speaking of Martin Cloons, I think. I didn't mean this is from Martin Cloons. It is.

When I knew that I was going to be in Emerald Fennell's Wuthering Heights, there was, in amongst the excitement of getting the gig, a tiny cloud in my mind, oh no, I'm going to land on your desks. Simon's going to say it's not like the book, and Mark's going to say I chewed the scenery and then get cross about Nativity 3 again. but no.

No! Thank you very much indeed for the kind things that you say. And Simon, yes, I really did enjoy myself to the max. This is my favourite bit of the email. From the first phone call with Emerald to my last shot of the film, lying still, trying not to blink with a mouthful of vomit, waiting for Margot Robb to kick me in the head. It's been a total joy.

And now a kind mention on your podcast, the job really is the gift that keeps on giving. Imagine that lying on the floor, mouthful of vomit, presumably concocted by props, waiting for Margot Robbie to kick you in the head. Life is great. May your tongue be tinked and up with everything still loving the show, Stephen. Please say hi to Jeremy. Best wishes, Martin Cloons.

Well, that's brilliant. And as we did say, he is the absolute star of the film. He steals the show. Redactor Simon correctly points out that it's Gil Scott Herron. of course it is, who did Whitey on the Moon. Right, fine. And it was 1970. Thank you. Well, there we go. It wasn't a bad guess, was it? So it's worth looking it up because it is infectious.

So because I'd seen it, like sometime this year, that's why the whole Whitey on the More thing seemed to be relevant. But Gil Scott Heron was a genius. And before we move on, Craig Pickup says, with regard to your recent discussion on the latest telling of Wuthering Heights, I think an Honourable mention should go to the fact that at one time the Hulking swarthy Yorkshire brute was portrayed by the Peter Pan of Pop

himself, Cliff Richard. I appreciate it was on stage rather than film, but I'm not sure there's been an odder casting since Tom Cruz played 6'5 Jack Reacher and I think we can play you this. Cliff Richard is Heathcliff. Adored by audiences across the country

the full record-breaking stage performance is now yours to own on this stunning video. which also features exclusive footage of Cliff Richard shot on the Yorkshire Moors. Heathcliff, a unique video experience. I'm sure that's right. I'm sure it is unique. You've done it again. But Cliff was shot on the Yorkshire Moors. That sounds like a tragedy that we haven't, has been underreported, hasn't it? The great thing about Cliff Richard Seathcliff was the critics said it was, you know,

catastrophically terrible and it sold out, you know, it was like it was. But it wasn't the same true of We Will Rock you? Yes. All the critics said it was catastrophically terrible, then it ran for 10 years. Yes. And I don't think Cliff Seethcliff was quite as strong as that. But anyway, yes, you're right. If Cliff Richards played Heathcliff, then Jacob Illardy is fine.

Yeah, exactly. doing it. Although Cliff is swarthy. Is he? I think so. Anyway, there'll be plenty more of that. And Martin, thank you very much. David Essex is, you know, would be a better choice, surely. Yes, yes, I think that's probably, that would be great. Anyway, correspondence at covenomere.com. Also, if you are in the film, like Martin Cloons, or if you're a star of any film and you want to just give us the inside nod on any of these films, get in touch, correspondence at codemoea.com. We're going to be back very shortly with, If I had legs, I'd kick you, Waste Man.

Good luck, have fun, don't die. And our special guest, Mona Fastfold and Amanda Seifred Truman is going to be talking about her new TV show Indoor League in which she leans against a bar with a pint of bit and a pipe watching contestants compete in traditional pub games, such as darts, bar, billiards, shove haepney and cribbage. If that's not correct, then we need a new researcher. Here, Mark.

Now, I've been thinking about the early days of our show, just a little bit recently. Okay, go on. When we first started out, we didn't have our truly wonderful top production team, did we? No, we didn't. How on earth did we manage? Well, when you're starting out,

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Join me for the science of love. Now our guest today are the director and star of the Testament of Anne Lee, Mona Fastfold and Amanda Seifred. I should say probably at this point that I was very surprised to find Mona in the interview because I hadn't been told that she was here. So I had geared the whole thing around Amanda. But it's fine. If a director turns up, obviously she's almost the best person to tell you about the origin of the film. But anyway, it's Mona and it's Amanda, Syfred.

You'll know, Fast Forward is obviously the director of the Sleepwalker, The World to Come, and as co-writer of The Brutalist alongside her husband, Brady Corby. Amanda Seyfried, fresh from the box office, hit with The House Maid, which Mark is still puzzling over. Not to mention girls and Mamma Mia in 2008. It's a very, very unusual film best described in their own words, which you'll hear after this clip from the movie. For those new here, who are unaccustomed to a woman preacher, come nearer to me.

Christ's spirit first appeared as a man, but has reappeared to fulfill the promise of the second coming. As a woman, our mother I am. I have seen a tozen people waiting for some America. We will plant great big tree with deep and solid roots. And that is a clip from the Testament of Anne Lee. I'm delighted to be joined by Amanda Seifred and the director, Mona Fastfold. Welcome. Thanks.

Thank you. Thank you very much for talking to us. First of all, Amanda, I need to apologize for, like most people in this country, pronouncing your name wrong in every movie that you've ever been in there. That's okay. Until now. So hopefully we're absolutely right now. Yeah, I don't even hear it anymore.

It's okay. My sister says it differently, so. What does she say? Seifred. Okay. Like an idiot. No, I'm kidding. No, no judgment.

No, really. Okay, but we'll still. But anyway, maybe, Moni, you start as it's your film. Introduce us to the Testament of Anni, how you came across this story and why you wanted to make this film. So not a lot of people know the story of Anne Lee. I discovered. When I discovered her, I thought perhaps that she was a familiar figure in American history and that people would, you know, were talked about her in school.

And perhaps you even knew about her here in England and in Manchester. Manchester as well and that just because I was Norwegian I hadn't, this was a part of American history that I just skipped. Then it turned out that most people just really didn't know much about her at all. The only relationship people had to the Shakers were their extraordinary design, the boxes and the brooms and like the beautiful, you know, staircases in the houses they built. So when I discovered that the Shakers were, it was a religious community in the late 1700s led by a woman who preached equality between gender and race in a time where women had zero autonomy, and she was the leader of the religion, and she believed herself to be the female embodiment of Christ.

And not only that, but she also led their worship through ecstatic song and dance. I thought, well, this is incredibly cinematic. This woman crossed the ocean, fought, you know, or was a stood steady fast against prosecution over, you know, her entire life, and then built the largest utopian society in American history with complete equality. That's a story to tell, especially now. So Amanda, had you heard of Anne Lee? I hadn't heard of her before this film. Same.

Yeah, it's interesting. It's a very niche. So when you sent the script, what do you think? Well, I know Mona, and we've worked together, and we've known each other for a long time. but through working with her it's very clear that we have a great rapport and really such an ease in the way we work together

and when she brought her own story to me I understood the passion so it was so it's clearly electrified her and the way she talked about it was like she and she does say like she had this urgency to tell the story and I felt that and so I just had this innate trust

that it was going to be okay even though it felt like a colossal challenge on everyone's parts. But I believe that she would get the greatest crew. I believe that she was going to tell the story unlike anyone else would ever have the balls to. And I wanted to be a part of that. And I knew that it was going to be transformative for me as well because when do you ever get a chance to play this kind of person in the world?

transformative in what way you know when you're just really terrified of something and you do it anyway that kind of proving to yourself your capacity can make you walk through the world a little differently why was it terrifying

everything was foreign about it it was a foreign accent very foreign to me the dancing very foreign I didn't understand it I needed to embody it like it was it was based on my survival and so it needed to be a second like a part of

like it needed to feel like I was born with these movements. I needed to sing in a completely different way, and I needed to lead, and I needed to have this, I needed to believe in myself in a way that I thought maybe I didn't, but that I realized I did. But I just learned a lot through the process. The process was about a year total, and I just, I knew that it was a challenge,

and I needed at the age that I was, and I knew that it was going to take a lot of sacrifice because they did have two kids at the time and a family that I needed to kind of leave for a little while. Yeah, I just didn't want to let Mona down either. And I didn't want to let the legacy of Anne Lee down. And I wanted to, and I knew that this was people's way in. Most people's way in to Anne Lee was going to be this vehicle.

And I needed to portray her in a way that really honored what she did in her life and what she created. It's an undertaking of some, it was the undertaking. taking of my life. Like, I don't see this, I don't have that much faith right now that I'm going to have this kind of challenge for a while. So, we'll see. Actors speaking in different accents is actually obviously part of what you do in every, in every different film. But seeing you speak in a Manchester accent was something else. I thought you nailed it. Was it difficult?

Thank you. Yeah, it was the, it was the hardest part of the job. The hardest part of, never mind the dancing and the ecstatic utterances. No matter how much I spoke in that accent, it never, felt like a part, it was a part of me. So that was, I was always, always fighting with myself, especially the first half of the movie. I had a lot of second guessing, but it was just, it was, it's funny that that is, that is where the challenge lies for me

is in that, in those kinds of accent. Like, give me an Irish accent, I would have, I would have fared it a little better. Okay. Well, I thought you've fared 100% correct. Thanks. We'll say all thanks to Maxine Peak then. Okay, yes. Mona, was it always going to be?

I mean, is it, I was going to call it a musical. It's sort of a musical. Okay, it is. I would say it is. That's okay, yeah. It's okay. Or you can call it. She didn't want to call the musical for so long and Brady was like, babe, it's a musical.

It's a, it's a, yeah. This is Brady Colbert, it's your other half who, you wrote it together. We wrote it together, yeah. No, I mean, it, it, I almost see it more as an opera now in a way. It's one, it's one piece of music, the entire film, really. even if it's an improvisational singer's breathwork that's coming slowly, you know, peeking through and some chimes through a dialogue scene

or there's, you know, it started out with this idea of really of minimalism, only the voice, only, you know, physical movement percussion. And then it grew and became richer and richer as we worked on it. And we started bringing in instruments and sort of with the idea of the music being sort of almost a connection to the divine for them.

It had to be musical. They worship through ecstatic song and dance, so they would break into song and dance. Can I ask you about that? Because ecstatic song and dance is not something that most people engage in in their normal life. Can you explain? They do at the club.

Oh, okay. So what is it that they describe what it is when we go to a shaker meeting? What is it that we see? When they start their singing and they start their uttering and they're moving, what is it that we're looking at? So in the beginning, in Manchester, in the early days of shakerism, they would do meetings like sort of prayer circles.

One person would stand and confess their deepest, darkest sins. They would then be comforted and forgiven, and it would often lead to shaking and, you know, trashing, throwing themselves to the ground. then that on would develop into a communal sort of improvised dance party that would last sometimes for days. And they would scream and sing and dance and move. It's like they were high or possessed. Yes.

Yes, but it's not possession and the sort of, you know, like it's not, the way that I interpreted it based on what I read and the research I did was that it was quite joyful. I didn't want it to have this sort of, you know, speaking in tongues in this sort of possession-like way, but more of this, we were more inspired by improvisational movers and improvisational singers. Improvisational singers, for example, like Maggie Nichols, who comes and does this incredible solo in the film, there's a journey, and there's a specific sort of performance journey in that. So I gave her very specific directions as to what her journey was, that you're taking this person's pain and his sin and his suffering, you're pulling it into your body, and you're helping him letting go of it, and you're kind of releasing it together.

So it's about, it's had a, it's not just, oh, here, I'm going to go and make some crazy sounds, or I'm going to go and make some crazy movement. I guess a lot of people will be watching this, and wonder, would it be impossible to have the gender and race equality, which was manifest in what the shape? is believed in, without the no children, no sex, no fornication thing, which clearly is a problem if you're trying to recruit. Was it possible to have the good, I mean, if you say you are the

second coming of Christ, you're making it quite easy for people to attack you, on you? Yeah. I don't, I think that nothing, nothing, she had no doubt in her mind and she had no, I don't think she ever questioned her faith and where she, where she and found herself in the world, which is another very attractive part of playing someone, playing Enli, because it was completely unwavering, which is very, very rare to find in somebody. And it looked a bit like madness to me until I understood why.

You know, the depths of her trauma, obviously, are directly related to the heights that she reached in her own. world. So did she want people to have no children? So therefore mankind would inevitably just die out? I think it really just was about the, that's the thing. It's like in some ways it doesn't make sense because it's just like how are you going to continue? I think she would have loved to it for this kind of society to continue the utopian society, these ideals. but I think what she saw as evil came from sex. And the evil that took over her life, the taking of her children away, that was evil.

And she understood that sex can lead to just complete suffering. And she wanted to remove any possibility of suffering. And that with that removed a lot of ego. because when you take away sexuality and piece that part of yourself, you're more likely to not be distracted because it becomes such a distraction. And to really, like, be present is to remove that option. And it does make sense in that way. But in terms of, like, keeping the movement alive, it's, yeah, I mean, they would adopt kids in.

Kids, people would come in with their kids. But if you fell pregnant while you were a shaker, you were, removed from, or you would have to, you know, make a decision. It makes a lot of sense in a lot of ways. Celibacy is a powerful thing because it does take away options and it does keep you clear-headed. When Brady came on the show to talk about the Brutalist, everyone was amazed at how much money he managed to make the film for in terms of how small the amount of money was. You've done it again, though, haven't you, on this movie?

I think you've done it for like 10 million, is that? I mean, how easy was it to get it made? It was impossible to get it made. Of course. I mean, we were in the middle of production when we went to premiere the Brutelist in Venice. We didn't have the benefit of the success of the Brutelist while making this film at all.

Quite the opposite, actually. At the time, most people told us that the Bruteless was undistributable. So it was... What do they know? Yeah. Ha-ha. No, it was really...

So, but what we did have the benefit of was, you know, working, making the brutalist. You know, we definitely learned even more about being scrappy, finding good solutions, are having great partners in Europe and Eastern Europe that we work with. So, you know, and for me also really turning to old-fashioned filmmaking techniques is a way of expanding this world. So with the testament of Anne Lee, which is a sense. something we spoke about on the Virgilis, we didn't end up using it, but we, I was very excited to bring back traditional matte paintings, for example. And so we looked all over the world and found

this wonderful artist Lee Took, who is one of the few map painters left. And we started working with him in pre-production. And that was a great way of growing the world to do, you know, to start to be able to have, you know, wide, expansive shots of Manchester. in New York and to use smaller sections of builds and then, you know, paint the rest, beautifully hand-painted and then married with VFX and then adding subtle movements to it and sort of, so using those techniques. And, you know, both Rade and I are quite, you know, obsessed with analog methods and old, you know, filmmaking methods.

So for us to, like, shoot on 35, then shoot our effects on 35, you know, then scanning it back and then printing it out again so that all the grain structure would make sense and be unified. It's really, it's so exciting to me because I sometimes really struggle with big CG builds. You know, it's like I feel like this is a computer that made this. And I mean, there's hundreds of people who worked on it as well, but maybe also that. There are hundreds of people who worked on that versus a man painting. It's one person painting it. And then there's a small team of two or three people working on me at the VFX team.

So we're all just working closely together, going back and forth and saying, oh, we need to mimic the bow of the lens here in a correct way. This light isn't hitting quite correctly here on this window frame. Can you add a tiny bit more, paint a bit more on that? It's just that's the back and forth. Mona, Amanda, thank you very much, you for your time. Thank you. And Mona Fastfeld and Amanda Seifred talking about the testament of Anne Lee.

What I love about that very, very long answer that Mona gives at the end of that interview is the part of the production team was doing her nut because she kept on, because time was up and, according to her timing, and was saying, you know, that kind of wind up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The finger in the air going around in circles, wind up, wind up. I'm thinking, I'm not the one talking. This is the director of the movie. I am not going to stop the director of the movie.

Absolutely. telling me about the film. So you can take it up with her later, but, you know, good luck with that. And also great to hear somebody sort of championing old-fashioned, you know, mat-painting backgrounds, those skills, which she's right. They have horribly fallen by the way, but actually they look great, and there's a reason for doing that stuff in camera. It's really impressive.

So you're going to review this film properly next week. Yes. just so it's it's the it is I found it a very weird film and I do you remember when Paul Fieg was on yes and you said and his last row I said it should have been a musical and it wasn't and you agree and you agree

I think this is a musical that shouldn't have been well I have to say I have to say I disagree with you but partly because I got a text from you after you'd seen it. And you said, have you seen it? And I said, no, not yet. And you said, did you know it was a musical? And I didn't. But then because I had your text, I did.

So I was ready for it. I can't imagine what it must have been like going to see it and suddenly it bursting into song without knowing. It's like that conversation. Is it Terry Jones and Michael Palin where in Holy Grail? and Michael Palin, as a sort of gruff, Yorkshire businessman, says, cut that out, cut that out, you're not seeing him while I'm here. And I think the reason is that... One day, all this will be yours.

What, the curtains? Exactly, that's exactly. Exactly. So I did one of the dissertation things that I did back at uni was about religious radicalism from the English Civil War. So this is obviously not the same century as the English Civil War. But the Quakers, the Baptists, the Anabaptist, like crazy, crazy. People all thought the world was about to wear and all thought Jesus was coming back. It's absolutely fascinating.

And I just, I found that the music and the dance was too West End, was too, I thought it got in the way of the story. But anyway, we can discuss that problem. Yeah, well, I think we'll have a very interesting discussion about it next week because I felt very differently. And I have to say, I really like the film. I was really surprised by it. But we'll talk about it when we review it fully next week. One question. The Manchester accent, I thought sounded spot on.

Yeah, there was a couple of bits in it in which it didn't quite ring true, but they're so passing, because honestly it's a tough thing to do. And I think the best thing I can say is I completely forgot that she was doing an accident. There was a couple of things that were just like not quite there, but for heaven's sake. Also, speaking of things that weren't quite there, I mean, when you see it, let us know what you think, obviously. There is a conversation on the boat going over from Manchester or Liverpool to the promised land. where one of the Manchester shakers talks about a journey that she'd been on

and said it was one and a half kilometres. One and a half kilometres? I don't think anyone in Manchester spoke in kilometres. And having looked it up, they kind of kilometres arrive with the French Revolution, kind of at the end of the 18th century. So I think that was. And I had this question. Tell me if I did the right thing.

I was going... It obviously would have sounded petty as a question to raise it. And then I thought, shall I mention it? At the end, when we finished recording, by the way, they didn't use kilometres in Manchester then or now. But anyway, I decided not to because I thought it would be churlish. I think you're right. I think it would have been churlish,

and I think you're right not to, because I didn't even notice it. I mean, I think if it indeed, I'm surprised that I didn't notice it. But I think it's a great interview, and I really liked hearing them talk about it, and she's obviously very, very passionate about it. And, of course, it would have been one of those things, as you know, if somebody says to you, I love your hair, your glasses are great,

jackets, fantastic, trousers are really brilliant, love your shit, don't like the belt. But the shoes are amazing, the only thing you hear is don't like the belt. And if you've done that interview, and then you left by going, incidentally, well, I just want to say they didn't use kilometres, I think that would have, you know. One line from the interview to remember for next week,

and I'm saying this almost as an aid memoir to myself, Amanda Seifred says talking about Anne Lee it looks like madness to me Yes brought on by trauma of losing her children but I think that's something

that we should discuss next week And it's definitely something that the film internally discusses It is definitely an idea that is in the film Testament of Anne Lee then will be reviewed and comes out next week But there is something you can review

Yes if I had legs I kick you Am I right in thinking that you saw this. You're not right. I'm so, beg you pardon, it's Simon Paul, who I had the conversation with immediately before the show who'd seen it. So this is the new film from Mary Bronstine, who made her name back in 2008 with the indie hit Yeast, which was a kind of mumblecore feature with Greta Gerwig. Anyway, so this, stars Roseburn, who so far, for her performance in this, has won a silver bear and a Golden Globe, is both BAFTA and Oscar nominated. The bookies have a second favourite to her, Jesse Buckley. I think this is going to be Jesse Buckley's year. So she plays Linda, who is a psychotherapist whose daughter

has an eating disorder, meaning she has hospital visits every day and is currently needing to be fed through a tube. Linda is struggling to keep up with the hospital appointments and to hold down her professional commitments while her husband is a way gallivanting around as a ship's captain. And when she turns to her own colleagues for help and support, in this particular case, a colleague played by Conan O'Brien, he offers her very little in the way of help. Here's a clip. Tell me not to do it. Just tell me what to do.

I don't think you want me to tell you what to do. You know what to do. No one will tell me what to do. I'm supposed to know how to fix this. I'm supposed to know how to fix her. What is it you think it's your job to fix? She has to weigh 50 pounds by next week. Dr. Spring said that's a gain of 2.5 pounds, right?

Each day's supposed to be 2,500 calories in, compensating for her. a resting rate at 1,800 calories burned. That's got to be at least 80% of each meal for seven days plus the tube, and that's if she just lays still all day. And if it doesn't, then something about not getting the tube out and reassessing the level of care. I mean, what do I do? Tonight, I would like you to get a good night's sleep.

Which, of course, is the one thing she isn't going to get, not least because the roof of their apartment, the seating of the apartment, has collapsed due to a flood, meaning that she's been moved, her and her daughter would be moved to a motel, where her life, I mean, she's at the end of her tether, she's having to keep up with all this stuff, she's having to deal with all this stuff, and everything is starting to unravel. The only thing that offers any kind of respite from it is a bottle of wine

and perhaps something a little bit stronger. Meanwhile, at work, her needy clients are becoming more and more needy, including one who at one point turns up with a baby and then leaves, literally leaving her holding the baby. So at the centre of this drama is Roseburn. She's right in the middle of this kind of right tide of rising panic. You know when we were talking about uncut gems and the way in which it's kind of like a,

almost like a panic attack of a movie. Yeah, absolutely it is. And in this, you're right in there with Roseburn. She's trying to placate her daughter, who? And this is the smartest thing, okay? We don't see the daughter. through the whole drama to the very very end, we don't see the daughter. We see her point of view.

We see Rose negotiating the world around her, but we don't see the daughter. So the daughter is effectively this kind of void at the centre of the movie, this vast hole into which Linda is pouring all her anxiety, her guilt, her frustration, her sense of failure. Because deep down, as you heard in that clip, she blames herself for everything, which I think is regardless of the circumstance, something that any parent will understand. The thing about in the end, it's all your fault, and you know it's all your fault.

And Roseburn has got this brilliant kind of anxious smile, this kind of, that's somewhere between the smile of Tour Guide Barbie in Toy Story 2, you know, can I stop smiling now? Or like a Stepford wife who looks like they're about to turn into Terminator. And watching this character firefighting day-to-day, hour to hour, minute to minute, second to second, I was reminded, this happens more and more as I get older. There's an Elvis Costello song, I think it's the first song, I think I know it's the first song on My Aim is True, which has got that line, why do you want to be my friend when I feel

like a juggler running out of hands? And that thing about a juggler running out of hands, which is such a great phrase, is exactly what she's doing. So the film, it's funny at times, darkly comedic, but it's also panic-inducing. And that way that you know, laughing and screaming are very close to each other. You don't know whether to laugh or shrink. At times, I was reminded of that kind of, did you see Nightbitch with Amy Adams? Did you see that film?

I don't think so. It was from awards season from last year. Anyway, it's Mariel Heller's film, and I thought that had a kind of equally unhinged socio-horror element about the terrors of motherhood and how that can drive somebody to madness. But as I said, right there, the combination of this amazing performance by Roseburn

and this really audacious directorial decision to, okay, let's not show the daughter, which kind of leaves you in the... When you describe it, again, as we were saying before, about Secret A, you think that's not going to work. You can't sustain that for the length of a feat, but you can, and not only can you, but you very quickly fall into,

okay, this is fine, because what it is it's creating this kind of absence at the center of this drama, into which everything is being poured. I thought it was terrific. And I thought for the second time this week, it's one of those films that's very hard to describe because it's easiest scene than said.

Because in the end, that is the genius of cinema, is that there are some things about cinema that is very, very hard to put into coherent words, even though that is literally my job. What I can tell you is it's engrossing, it's funny, it's dark, it's got a great central performance, and it works really well. Interesting to hear Conan O'Brien,

on that clip, what's, what's he like? He's like a perfectly good, if you didn't know it was Conan O'Brien, you wouldn't know it was Conan O'Brien. I mean, when you, because you'd mention it, then you hear his voice go,

well, it's clearly, it's Conan O'Brien, yeah. But no, no, he's, so he's playing her sort of therapist supervisor in this sort of slightly super-sillyest way, and he does it very well. If I had legs,

I'd kick you, and when you see it, please let us know what you think, correspondence at Kermanameau.com. Add in a minute, but first it's time to skip joyfully with gay abandonment into the lift of laughter.

Oh, goody. Taking on. Here we go. Here we go. Mark had a bit of a moral quandary yesterday. I was walking along the rather bougie streets of showbiz, North London. Yes.

And I spotted a wallet. No ID, just £50 in cash. What to do? So I thought to myself, what would Jesus do? So I turned it into wine. And cheers. That's good.

That's good. That's all right. I had an unexpected to a little. at the end. Very good. Mark, as we mentioned, new Elvis documentary coming out soon

to be discussed next week. I can't wait. I know you can't wait to be able to discuss it. I love Elvis. It's not as much as you do, obviously. But my obsession is causing a little bit of conflict at home.

You know who said to me this week, Simon Mayo now is the time to stop quoting Elvis songs every single time we speak, otherwise I'm leaving you. I said, okay, it's, it's now or never. It's just, I love the way that, again, you could hear the joke coming up the drive.

Incidentally, there's at least three possible punchlines you could have done to that. Of course. Honker, burning love is asleep. I thought you're going to go for It's All right, Mama, but there we go. And Mark, what is the difference between an Indian and an African elephant? One of them's got bigger ears than the other one? No, silly, Mark. One of them's an elephant.

Oh, hey. Commas are important. Comments are important. Very good. In our next section, Mark will be reviewing Waste Man. Good luck, have fun, don't die. That's two separate pictures. We'll be back after this.

So an email here into our mailbox, correspondence at cerminemoe.com, from Jake in Exeter, dear plosive and sibilant, Africa. Always enjoy your discussion on accents. I wonder if you've played, which we've just done, of course, with the Manchester.

By the way, I am not a Mancunian. Mark isn't, but obviously studied there. So if you are a Mancunian, once you've heard Amada Syphre's accent, do tell us what you think, just so we get an absolute gospel truth on that. Anyway, always enjoy your discussion on accent, says Jake, I wonder if you've ever played the pronunciation game where certain words or phrases can sound like completely different sets of words in another accent. No, I haven't played that.

Now, some of these is quite difficult. Jake says, try it with Mark. Ask him to say tin, tin, tin. Tin, tin. He's a Yorkshireman explaining that something is not in the tin. Get him to say beer can, as in can of beer. That's beer can. Beer can.

He's just said bacon in Jamaican patois. Okay, that works. Oh, I see. Oh, I see. Fine, yeah, yeah. Say Mamma Mia. Mamma Mia. A scouse are telling their mother they've arrived home.

Mamma Mia. Okay, see, Mamma Mia. And then, bizarrely, ask him to say space ghettos in a 1930s New York-Chicago cop accent. Sorry, say that again. Ask him to say... Space ghettos in a 1930s New York-Chicago cop act. I mean, New York and Chicago are completely different.

So choose one of those. Okay, and what's the words I'm saying? Space ghettos. New York and New Yorker Space Girls Spice Girls in Glasgow Space Girl

Oh actually that's not bad I've only just got Tintin Tinn I've only just got it in tin It isn't in the tin Yeah Tintin Tintin So Jake thank you I've never played that game Never been aware of the game

But thank you very much I'm sure there are many other examples Which will come flooding into our inbox Tell us about another movie that's how I just say that the one that was always cited by that is say these three words together, okay? And the first word is A-I-R, and the second word is H-A-I-R, and the third word is L-A-I-R. Say those three words together. Air-Hare and Lair.

No, no, but just say them together. Air-Hare-H-H-H-Lair. Oh, see, it's Posh-Tor. Yeah, the Posh Talk. That was the... Emerald-F-R-E-H-L-R-L-E-H-L-A. Okay. Very good. Tell us more. If you have them, what else is out then?

Waste Man, which is a tough British prison drama from writers, Ewan Doren and Hunter Andrews and Biffra winning director, Cal McMough. I think that's the pronunciation. Forgive me, if that's wrong. That's MCM-A-U. Apparently, this was originally set up as an A-24 distributed film to be directed by the Safdi Brothers, and we were just talking about Safdi's just a minute ago. But a lot has changed since then. He's now a gritty-brit pick in the tradition of films like Scum,

both the TV and the film version or startup. Those productions provided early feature lead roles for Ray Winstone and Jack O'Connell, respectively. On this, one of the producers is Phil Barantini. Now, Phil Barantini, of course, Boiling Point, adolescence, when his name is on a project, you know it's going to be worthy of attention. So the film stars David Johnson, whose credits include Rye Lane, Alien Romulus, and more recently the long walk. He was last year's winner, I think, of the BAFTA Rising Star,

although I think this was shot in 2024. So he's Taylor. He's in prison, we learn for manslaughter, although he seems to be very gentle and quiet, keeping his head down, medicating, self-medicating his way through the days with this kind of heroin substitute that he's buying from the inside dealers,

whose hair he cuts in return. He has a son on the outside from a partner who refuses to speak to him because of his conviction, but with him he longs to reconnect. Out of nowhere, he discovers that he's up for early parole because prisons are overcrowded and he is one of the kind of people that they want to get out because the prisons are overcrowded. At almost exactly the same time, when he's told basically just keep your nose clean for a few weeks, you'll be out, he suddenly gets a new cellmate, who's an aggressive loudmouth called Dee,

played by Tom Blythe, who was Corrie Lena Snow in Hunger Games Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes and Billy the kid in the TV series. Here is his introduction to his new cellmate. You got a new cell mate. Get my shit in there. It's not here yet. When's it going to be there? We're three steps down.

You'll get it when it arrives. Two days in sec, man, no shower, no nothing. You like can't even get my shit on time. You might run right in ails. There's no right here. Your pals over there take the... Oh, I want the rest, yeah? So, he's this brash of noxious chancer.

He basically takes over the cell. He moves in, sets himself up. as the new dealer in town to the annoyance of the old guard with whom, you know, our character has been dealing. So the question is, can the guy keep his nose clean whilst he's sharing a cell with this agent of chaos? More importantly, can he deal with the fact that his new cellmate is a manipulative snake who's going to play on his weaknesses and basically get him into a position whereby he has to do things that he doesn't want to do? So the territory may be familiar, that idea about the kind of the brutalizing nature of life inside,

the inmate trying to stay clean, but succumbing to the necessities of survival behind bars. But there is something fresh and invigorating about this. And I think it's largely to do with the chemistry between the two leads because this kind of this almost sub-dom relationship at the heart of the drama really works well. You know, one of them is kind of big sort of innocent, puppy-eye downcast, and yet we know not that innocent.

And then the other kind of wild-eyed crazy agent of chaos, sucking all the air out of the room, you know, taking up all the space. And the way that it's shot, the cinematographer, is Lorenzo Levrini. It gets that thing about the claustrophobia of life inside is. You know, everything is small cells, corridors. You feel all the time you're trapped.

The casting is exceptionally good. I mean, you really do believe that you're in the presence of hardened criminals, with the, you know, the kind of the various secondary characters who are, you know, some of them are sympathetic and some of them are terrifying, some of the resilient, downtrodden, desperate, hopeful. Again, you do believe that they are all who they are acting as. And a lot of it is to do with a kind of that clanging sound of life in prison. And, you know, when the new arrival turns up in the cell,

it's like suddenly our anti-hero is in a cage with a wild animal. And the thing that's interesting about the film is it doesn't paint anyone with a single brush. So even the hardest characters have got a sympathetic side. And even those with a softer side have the ability to be tough. I mean, it's interesting. Because in the third act, I was thinking about a prophet and profi, which has got that really, really harrowing scene in it, in which our character has to do something which he has to do in order to survive.

And it's, you know, again, that launched an acting career. I so think this is a great showcase for its stars. It's a timely reminder that the current prison system is not geared to rehabilitation. It is really geared to incarceration and just dealing minute by minute with problems. And I thought that it had, I mean, it's interesting. There have been a number of prison dramas over the years that have been great career launches. I mean, in this case, you know, both these actors have got quite a lot of work under their belt. but it is a really good showcase for them.

I think it was a tough and engrossing drama in a genre in which it is possible to fall into cliche and I didn't think this did. And that is called Waste Man. Waste Man. Certificate 15? Yeah. No, I think it's certificate 18.

I actually wrote down the BBFC guidance, which is, somebody wrote 18 for very strong language, strong violence and drug misuse. Okay. correspondence at covenomere.com if you want to contribute at any time and in any way time for a quick what's on hello mark and simon this is jack davison from photographer's parapet i recently released my debut short film a is for ant which is a surrealist journey through a children's alphabet book it was made in collaboration with my friend shone heath the oscar winning production designer of poor

things the film is now available to watch online for free and it was made with all audiences in mind So please sit your children, grandparents and dogs down to watch it. Thank you. Thank you. Fantastic. Well, also, because how many times do you get a message like that? We're clearly there just after literally everybody to watch it. Yeah, good. Great. Thank you.

A is for Ant and Jack Davidson send us the note. If you think there's something that you'd like to share with us that's a movie related or movie adjacent, send your voice note to correspondence at COVID-Mayer.com. What is, okay, so one more film with the intriguing title of, Good luck, have fun, don't die. My friend Julie Edwards, the photographer, has been at Berlin because I'm just back from Berlin, and she said that the maddest red carpet event that she did was the Berlin screening of Good Luck, Have Fun, Don't Die. Stars of that film include Sam Rockwell, Haley Richardson, Michael Pena, Zezzi Beetz,

Asim Chowdrey, Tom Taylor and Juno Temple. And when they did the photo call on the carpet, they were doing congeny, Fu kicks and, you know, the pictures are really, really great. So it looks like it was a kind of terrific premiere. It's written by Matthew Robinson, who wrote and directed the flawed, but quite interesting Ricky Jave's comedy, The Invention of Lying. And it's directed by Gore Vibinsky. Now, Gore Vibinsky is best known as the director of the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise. He also helmed the, I didn't like the American remake of The Ring. He did the high concept Western Flop, the Lone Ranger, featuring the now particularly unfortunate pair of

of Johnny Depp and Celebrity Cannibal Army Hammer. Wow. Yeah, that didn't age well. No. And the psychological horror flop a cure for wellness, hello to Jason Isaacs, of which the whole thing about it was, I mean, it did very badly, but it was a thing that you kept waiting for the twist, then you realize that the twist was that there wasn't a twist.

Weirdly, however, Gorghavinsky also did the award-winning animated feature Rango, so maybe he ought to be sticking with animations. This is his best live-action film, although that is a low bar, as you can tell from the films I've just mentioned. So here's the setup. Norm's Diner in LA, 10 past 10, everyone is glued to their mobile phones. No one is doing anything other than looking at their mobile phones. Suddenly, Sam Rockwell bursts in, dressed from head to foot in a mix of plastic and wires, holding what appears to be a trigger device and looking like he's got an explosive vest. He says, this isn't a robbery.

I'm from the future and everything is about to go really, really wrong thanks to everyone's addiction to screen time and the arrival of AI. He has been here before. This apparently is his 117th attempt to assemble the right group of patrons

from this particular diner to start the revolution and head off the disastrous future that he has come from. But the chances are most of the people he chooses will die in the attempt. Here's a clip from the trailer. There's a thing that's about to

come down that I can't prepare you for. It's gonna try to give you everything you ever wanted. But in the end, it will all be a lie. Are any of you even listening to me? I traveled here today to tell you that things do not go well for you in the future. But tonight we got a shot. There is a perfect configuration of people in this diner that can save humanity. What you're gonna do before we all gone?

We feel. I really don't like to say it out loud. It's kind of a morale killer. So the group... That's intriguing, I think. Yeah, exactly. It's a good setup. So the group that he assembles includes Ingrid, who is a sort of depressed young woman

who appears to have an allergy to the modern world to the internet and to phones. You've got a couple of teachers whose pupils have all become addicted to their mobile phones and who are now passing apparently advertorial messages. between each other and behaving like mindless zombies. And then you've got a character played by Juno Temple, who is a grieving mother, whose son has been cloned after a school shooting and is now spouting smiley messages from our sponsors.

Other hot-button topics included in the script, the blind acceptance of school shootings is simply routine and the ruining of real-life relationships through the arrival of VR headsets. So the trailer sells this as being from, quote, a completely unhinged Gore Vibinsky. And the film wants to feel unhinged. And I think the budget is only around about $20 million. Consider that the Lone Ranger cost $250 million.

It was a huge flop, incidentally. So it has certainly got the right to claim that it's got a bit of indie anarchy about its spirit. However, despite the promisingness of the premise, despite the fact that I like a lot of members of the cast, and it sounds like, oh, you know, it's wild and crazy, completely unhinged, I think honestly completely unoriginal would be more honest because although it's fun and there are things in it that are passingly fun, it's nothing like as anarchic and out there as it wants you to believe. In fact, all the unhinged in inverted commas ideas in it have all been thoroughly road tested elsewhere in a string of films and TV shows. So most obviously, the idea of social media turning everyone into zombies, I mean, and AI being about to destroy the world is a subject that's been discussed in, well, pretty much every film, television show, radio show, podcast. I mean, I remember you, was it two years ago when the Mission Impossible, you know, the AI was the bugging, you said,

this is it. We're suddenly going to get a wave of movies about the evils of AI. Do you remember saying that? It was like two years back. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I think that's kind of done. The idea of the Sam Rockwell character coming back from the future, back to change the present and therefore, you know, change the past and therefore save the future. Okay, so that's lifted to some extent from the Terminator, also very clearly in this case from 12 monkeys. And the design of this owes such a lot to 12 monkeys. The suit that Sam Rock was wearing could have come straight off the set of 12 monkeys. In fact, one of the posters for the film is clearly an homage to the one sheet of the Brazil poster. So there is a lot of Terry Gilliam in this. There is an awful lot of Terry

Gilliam in this. The thing about having a character who's allergic to phones and the internet, I mean, again, is very reminiscent. One of the key plot strands from Betel's Saul, which was way, way back in which Chuck, the brother of Saul or Jimmy, has this electromagnetic hypersensitivity and there's the whole thing about is it real or is it actually just, is it psychosomatic? The story of the child brought back and saved from death who now is producing advertorial content owes a huge debt to that, well, there's a couple of Black Mirror episodes. there's be right back from season two in which there's, you know, and you can interact with a deceased person through AI.

And there's also actually more recently, I think it was series seven, that one common people in which somebody has a brain implant that connects them to an internet server. And in order to keep paying for the thing to work, they turn into somebody reciting advertorial content. There's also a huge amount of post matrix, is this real or is this memory-ex stuff going on? There is a long-standing archival debt to Kronenberg's Videodrome and more recently Spielberg's Ready Player 1 in terms of the virtual reality setup.

There are some scary animated toys that I thought literally one of them has walked off the set of a toy story. Most significantly, there is a very unhealthy dose of everything everywhere all at once, the success of which probably explains why this exists now. because you can almost imagine the pitch meeting in which they said, you know, okay, well, look, what happened with everything everywhere all at once? We're going to make everything everywhere all at twice. Butum, tish, thank you. I was very proud of that joke.

And if they didn't, you... Can you say it again, please? Because I think it's worth repeating. Look at the success of everything everywhere all at once. Well, we're going to make everything everywhere all at twice. Boom. Thank you. Excellent.

And as I said, they didn't use that pitch in the sales meeting they really should have done. None of those is to say that it isn't fun. There is stuff in its fun. I like Sam Rock.

I like some of the ideas. However, it is an 89-minute movie squeezed into 135 minutes, many of which should have been lost in the end. Because the fact is that Vobinski has never done, you know, brevity or subtlety, ever.

It's not surprising to learn that this actually began life many, many years ago, as a 26-page TV pilot, that then ran out of steam, but was then revived as a feature idea, which then languished in development until, and this one I read in an interview, I think it was in Deadline. The producer told Deadline that somebody said, it's really reached a point where Matt said, unless we make this now, the time is actually going to pass us by. I think the time has passed you by, and I think this is passing fun, but it's not as good as any of the thing that it reminds me of, that it rips off. It's nothing, it is a very corporate idea of what an

anarchic production looks like. And the last 25 minutes of it are just hogwash. And that's the end of Take 1. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team was Jen, Matt, Eric, Josh, Heather and Dom. The redactor was Simon Paul. And if you're not following the pod already, please do so wherever you get your podcast. Please come and join us on Patreon, where Mark and I hang out all the time. the time. We just, we're there with all our swinging friends. I'm using that in the kind of musical sense. Yeah, well, well done for clarifying that. Okay. Mark, what is your film of the week? Well, it's two films of the week this week because we're in that, that period. My two films of the week are, if I had legs, I'd kick you and the secret agent, both of which are terrific.

We'll be back next week. Head to Patreon for all the good stuff and a quick hide to new Ultras, Peter Smith, Anthony Smith, Luke Regan, Nicholas Stein and Ida Larson. You're all very welcome. I'm going to, because I'm allowed to, bestow a year's ultra membership to the correspondent of the week. And I think I was going to give it,

I mean, obviously, I can't really give it to Martin Cloons because that would be unfair, because he doesn't need it. Yeah, he's Martin Cloons. He's successful enough. He can pay. Exactly. Hello, Martin. Sue So, Sue So, Sue Soren,

from Winnipeg, Manitoba, who's our PhD in literature woman, who gave us a little tutorial about Wuthering Heights back in about 20 minutes ago. Okay, so Sue Sorensen, you have won the Ultra membership for being correspondent of the week. If you think you can be next week, correspondence at kerminamea.com,

take two has already landed.