Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Andy & Barbara Muschietti, The Flash, Extraction 2 & Pretty Red Dress

Episode Date: June 16, 2023

Sibling disagreements on set. Making sense of the DC universe. The legend that is Michael Keaton. This week’s episode features an interview with director and producer brother-sister duo Andy and Barbara Muschietti about their contentious, new, time-bending superhero movie, ‘The Flash’. Mark reviews ‘Extraction 2’, the second instalment of the Russo Brothers’ Chris Hemsworth-helmed action franchise; ‘The Flash’, DC's latest controversy-ridden offering starring Ezra Miller as Barry Allen, a forensic scientist who gains the power of superhuman speed after being struck by lightning; and ‘Pretty Red Dress’, a big-hearted music drama starring Alexandra Burke that follows a South London family and the red garment at the centre of their lives. Time Codes (relevant only when you are part of the Vanguard): Ad break 1 Ad break 2 Ad break 3 You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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9 and non-sick Luftballon. 9 and apparently she was very, she didn't like the English language version because apparently it's, the English language version is far less overtly political than that is Trunon and Nundsick Lought Balon. Also that is in a translation. So we had 99 balloons. They had 99 balloons. So some work and some absolutely done. So some work and some absolutely done. Why is it, do you think? Have we started? Yeah, I think we're fine, I think. Mantons phone off.

Why is it, do you think that some people look great in hats and some people look total pillocks? I speak as one of the latter, you can agree. My entire family all look really cool in almost any hat that you could put them in. Me, on the other hand, lesser. I think it's shape of head. I've got a really oddly shaped head.

My head sort of go, my forehead slopes back from minus. One of the reasons why I have this stupid hair is that it compensates for the fact that if you flatten it down, I look like alien. And which alien? The alien. You know, what? From alien. For the alien, from alien. And when I was at university once, I decided I would shave my head to see what it looked like. I thought from under to that. So I did and I was like, oh yeah, that's very, very, very bad. I know I'll compensate for it by wearing a hat. Baseball cap, I could pull off because it basically, because it goes out forward, so it

kind of compensates it, but other than that, I can't wear any other. I wore a, I wore a trillbee for a while, an old battered trillbee that was, an old battered trillbee. There's something jauntier battered trillbee. Yeah, but it wasn't, but it wasn't, it was a knackered old trillbee for a while, an old battered trillbee. It was, an old battered trillbee. There's something jauntier about a trillbee. Yeah, but it wasn't, but it was a knackered old trillbee in the kind of Tom Waitsway, and it belonged to a friend of mine at Manchester, and I sort of stole it off him.

And I know I wore that. I affected that for many years. I can probably find a photo of it somewhere. That was what I was called Henry. It was a whole different thing. It was what I was called Henry. It was a whole different thing. It was when you were called Henry. You know that, the Manchester, I was called Henry. I mean, I feel as though we're on a clock here and if we start to unpack that, you know, that's me. If you want to ask more about Mark being Henry, I think that's for question.

Indeed, if you were one of the people that remembers me being called in. I mean, if you want more on that, it's correspondents at COVIDo.com. The only hat that I tolerate is the one, I mean, bizarrely, that kind of Tom Paxton, Jeremy Corbin, kind of American military, kind of, kind of cap. You know, the only cap that Corbin ever wore, probably still wears. It's like an American military carkey cap. Oh, okay.

That one, I don't mind that, but, you know. But you could pull off a base, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, for no reason, other than the sun. I'd wear one of those Australian things with corks. Well, when I was first in London, I wore a baseball cap a lot. And in fact, there's a character in a book by Chris Fowler,

who is me, character only appears briefly. And as Kim Newman said, he's called something like Merak Erick Mode. And it describes as perennial wearer of a baseball cap. Because I had a George term baseball cap, which is an ex-assisting. Anyway, welcome to, there's a surprise. Your favorite film based podcast.

And what are you gonna be reviewing later on when we get there? We have a fantastically packed show. So in the first day of the show, we're gonna be reviewing extraction. In Take One. Yes. In Take One, we're gonna be reviewing

Extraction Two, which is the sequel to extract. Did you see extraction? I did. And did you like it? Pretty red dress, which is a new British movie. And we're going to be talking flash with our special guests. Andy and Barbara Mosquetti, who are brother and sister and the director and producer of a city. And it's Mosquetti, not Mosquetti. Oh, it's spelled E.E.T., and that, which is what I was saying, but apparently I was wrong. It's Muskehty.

Muskehty. And also, there'll be extra takes, more of this kind of thing. We can watch list, and the we can not list, five are great, and three will hate. Bonus reviews, what else are we gonna do in those other uncharted territories? We're going to be reviewing Inland,

which is the new film starring Mark Reiland's and also something else which Fails me right now at this moment. Oh, yes, great. It's day, which is the take that Stage musical coming to the script. What is it really that it is to take? Well, there was their songs then then well they make a cameo appearance A pretentious wise currently Mark Kermode 15 against Mark Kermode 14, so we're getting very, very close. One frame back is films about obsessed fans and you can support everything that we do. Financially, culturally and spiritually via Apple podcasts or head to extra takes.com

for non-fruit related devices. And if you're already a vanguardista, as always, we salute you. We have a cheap ad to run here. Here we go. MUSIC Who three, four? I love this music. Mark, did you know that simple, t-shaped top garments have become a part of human

clothing since ancient times? Yes, they were known as tunic, I believe. That's quite correct. The modern t-shirt evolved from undergarments used in the 19th century and were adopted by miners and some say stevedores I would say stevedore because it comes from Portuguese stevedore, although let's just say dockers, as a convenient garment for hot environments. By the military, they became a widespread and popular item of clothing. Who can forget? Marlin, it looks like Marlin.

Who can forget Marlin Brando sporting one in a street car named Desire? Literally. But the best is more of a brand. Nobody. Well, now Mark, the T-shirt has attained perfection with the Kermadomeo take T-shirt, which not only will keep you cool in your work as a stivador, steavador, let's just say docker or minor, but will lend you a sense of elegance and good taste at social gatherings and cinema outings.

We're making a meal, isn't it. I'm never without mine. So why not head to store.comodonmayo.com now and secure yours. store.comodonmayo.com. Is that what you're saying? I'm saying store.comodonmayo.com now. GZ organ continues until it fades. Sand you can hear is the sound of sound you've laughing at us doing advert. But that's only because he's jealous. He said every time you do an advert I laugh.

Well, that's not necessarily quite the image we're trying to portray to our advertisers. Incidentally, Hameo, uh, Sanj, in a movie that we're gonna be talking about today. Yes, and I messaged him and said, Hey, see in this film, and he said, Oh, I made it in the edit then, because he thought he was gonna be edited out. And he never said anything about it when he was doing it. I think he didn't know whether it was gonna make the cut.

Right, okay. An email from Abu Hussein. Hi, I'm an RTL back from the days when I was a teenager who would sprint out of the mosque back to the car after Friday prayers To listen to your latest takes on the radio. I'm writing regarding Mark's review of the film Transcendence from 2014 He felt that the movie had been unfairly judged and time would tell that the movie would be Re-evaluated him in a much more forgiving light. I thought he was wrong and the movie was terrible most people He wrote in similarly agreed with that sentiment. Well, Mark was right and we were wrong and the movie was terrible. Most people. He wrote in, similarly, agreed with that sentiment.

Well, Mark was right and we were wrong and here's why. So in recent months, I think we've all been a flabbergasted by the rapid development and successive iterations of ever more intelligent AI systems. We're back there again. Chat GBT notably being won. This has given increased prominence to the hard problem known as AI alignment,

bear with me. This is how we can have ever more intelligent AI's retain a link to human values and behave in ways which lead to desirous outcomes. Inplisit within this is the assumption that human values are intrinsically good. Yes, we have values that are admirable, which AI should definitely follow. I believe chat GBT programmers have done well to try and keep their particular iteration free of bigotry and prejudice, for example. However, we also have to be honest with ourselves and recognize that the totality of our values are not wholly good, we have flaws. Transcendence shows how such flaws can manifest. Johnny Depp may play a brilliant scientist, but his infatuation

and to be together with the woman he loves contaminates the AI he has developed. It'll do anything, regardless of ethical consequences to fulfill its remit. As such, this is a brilliant far ahead of its time movie. It really asks that question of how we can align AI to not the sum of human values, but to the best of human values. We do not know the answer, but at least this problem has now been popularised. Thank you for taking the time to read my thoughts. I look forward to any discussion it may spark. As I remember, and I definitely have not gone back to watch Transcendence because I was one of the many who thought it was rubbish.

Are you just seeing it first on real? Yes, because we discussed it on the programme, it wasn't, it wasn't that the tech stuff was unbelievable. It was just that it wasn't, that Brad Pitt wasn't very good and the script was clunky. Johnny Depp, Johnny Depp, I beg your pardon, Johnny Depp, so Brad Pitt was rubbish. He was, he was so rubbish, I don't even remember him being in it. There were, you know, plot holes, plot holes, even, and all those plot holes and dialogue was poor, you know, it was all that. That was the problem. It's not that the tech stuff was, I mean, putt-holes, plot-holes, even, and- Or- Or-holes, plot-holes, and dialogue was poor, you know, it was all that. That was the problem. It's not that the tech stuff was, I mean, I don't think to Abin's point, it has been

reconsidered, but maybe it's time to reconsider it. Well, I still, I really enjoyed it, and I, I still stand there. Did you enjoy it because it was Wally Fist, did you go in well-disposed towards it because he was directing it? I will concede this. I probably went in with my optimism levels turned up because it was Wally Fist, dialed up because it was Wally Fist, and it was just so lovely that the guy who used to shoot Greg Dark's straight to videorotic thrillers and then made an extraordinary name for himself, you know,

shooting Christopher Nolan movies was now directing a great big thoughtful science fiction blockbuster with a with a then unassailed star in it. Well, if you want to, if you do indeed want to reconsider transcendence, then feel free to watch it again. And which obviously you are free, of course, you just feel free. What people are allowed to. They are. That's great. Thank you. Thank you. Well done. Permission and let us know. And it'll be talked about again. Maybe they got things right, which we didn't realize at the time. And maybe the clunky dialogue has improved over the years. That maybe hasn't corresponded to Kovenevay.com.

What are we going to be talking about now? Extraction to. So, I like this. So you saw the first ticket. So the 2020 Netflix actioner, which was a ridiculous. Actioner. Yeah, actioner. Is that, that's not a word. Action movie.

Adapted from a graphic novel, a rigid called DACA, written by Joe Russo, and directed by Stunt Specialist Sam Hargrave. So Chris Hemsworth was this world-weary mercenary Tyler Rake. He's enlisted to rescue the original, the kidnapped son of an imprisoned crime lord, and to do that, he must fight and beat up at every point. There's a frankly staggering number of people,

often in what appear to be single shots. He's also haunted by the ghosts of the past, the memory of a child, that this is somehow given him a death wish. And the main selling point was that the action sequences were really exciting and they were, and you had Gossier Thaifarhani who kind of added a touch of class. And it did really well. It apparently, in 2020, Netflix revealed that it had been watched by 99 million households in its first four weeks.

Because not normally they don't release stones. I know, they don't. No, they were, well, this they were happy. And it was the most ever for one of their original films. And then it became the fourth most watched straight to streaming title in 2021. So, extraction too was inevitable there. Extractions too was inevitable. So, again, Joe Russo, Sam Hargrave, Chris Hemsworth,

Galschutte Farahani, brilliantly. So, we start off with Tyler kind of left for dead, but not dead. Put back together again, goes home and discovers waiting on his doorstep, Idris Elba. Here's a clip. You lost, mate. You rake? You asked you first. Yeah, but my answer depends on yours. See, if you are rake, then you are the myth of Mumbai, the legend that got the journalist out of Congo

and it took down the two gangs to save the mayor of Rio. I mean, the honour would be all mine, but I have to say, mate, you're not living up to the hype. What happened, you fall off a bridge? I bet you put my cup down, helping your guard and scoff. It's not very nice, is it? Not what we've got a mutual friend who's offered you a job. How do I have any friends?

Yeah, well, this particular individual seems to think you're the only one that can do it. Me, I am not so convinced. Can you even pull the trigger like that? That's a great clip. Do you think that that's really good? What was that? That we heard some doubt. I mean, it could have been anything.

It could have been anything. Flipping, blemetic. Anyway, so this, it's basically a kind of a brief appearance to set up what has to be happened. So the mission this time is that he has to go and rescue the family of a ruthless Georgian gangster from the hellish prison in which they now live. This weirdly enough kind of appears to relate to you wrote a book in which families go into prisons. appears to relate to, you wrote a book in which families go into prisons. Families. Yes.

So I did blame that was not you. And in this particular case, he's gone into prison, but he's been allowed for his family to go into the prison with him. Apparently, this was something that happened in the book. So they're now in this hellish prison. So mission number one, go in and get the family, although not so much the terrible gangster. And it is the rescue mission is just it's great. It's like lots of, you know, one apparently one shot lab rinse fine insanity in which people get shot and stabbed and punched and smashed and drilled.

And there's a point in it when he kept Chris Hemsworth keeps on fighting despite the fact that he's on fire. Which is really okay, but that's what I would expect. Exactly. Then later on, there's another fight sequence which takes place on the glass roof of a skyscraper. So it's all hangy, dangly, vertiginous, and all that stuff really makes me, I mean, I'm just, I'm so scared of heights, and I'm so scared of the idea of having a fight on glass, which might break. And then there's another absolutely terrific nail biting action sequence that takes place on a train that is being pursued by worldly copters

and the camera goes through the train and over the train and round the side of the train. This is what him doing at what you know, he's saying, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, and that stuff is really high-pap. Now, there is some character detail. None of it's relevant. There is some plot about brothers and families, but it's in exactly the same way as the

files move. It's just a breathing space. It's just like a little bit of plot, and then we'll get onto the next action sequence. None of it makes any sense at all. Doesn't matter because the choreography of the action sequences is so well done. That you go, okay, but this is what I paid for. There are three big set pieces that are absolutely worth the time that it will take to watch the film

because they're extended and they're, you know, people often say nail-biting action. And you go, yeah, is it watching this? It was like, wow, yes, my nails are feeling like they need to be bitten because I'm jealous. He's going to fall through that glass thing. Is he going to get knocked off the top of that train by the Wurley Coptor? Is he going to get out of the prison? What's he going to do now that he's on fire? And so I think you'll really enjoy it. There is a plot. it doesn't matter at all. Excellent.

So would it be fair to say you're an extractor fan? Also, here's an idea. Extractor. Doesn't quite work with an extraction fan. Yeah, but he's the extractor. So how about this for an idea for a follow-up? The extractor versus the equalizer. And who do you think would come out on top? That would be great, wouldn't it? Because they both, they both can do anything. And does you watch the film of the equalizer. And who do you think would come out on top? That would be great, wouldn't it?

Because they both can do anything. And did you watch the film of the equalizer? Just watch two and then one in that order. Why? I don't know. It just turned out. It was the way it came out. But honestly, I think you'll enjoy extraction.

If you enjoyed extraction one, you'll enjoy extraction two. And I'm a huge fan of really well-choreographed action sequences and there are three set pieces in this in which you go, that's it, well done, well done. That is what I want from like you're moving. Can it really be nail biting? If you know that Hemsworth is gonna survive because he has to, to at least the end of the movie,

and then there'll be extraction three. So therefore it's now biting but you know let's it's it's I mean yes what you're saying is logically true but when they're on the top of a glass roof of a skyscraper and they're shooting the glass and the glass but I mean I'm so scared of heights. Is it up to mission impossible levels of thrill them?. Some of the stunt sequences are worthy of that level of film. Okay, and where can I see this? This is my Netflix, then. It's just, they're not even giving it to the cinema for a half a minute. I believe it might have a brief cinema release time and pool. Is it in cinema's at all?

Straight to Netflix, but I mean, it's fun. It's really, really good fun. Okay, Extraction 2 is available to watch now, but don't watch it now because we have lots of top business still to come, Mark. What do you do? Oh, is this the reading app? We'll, no, that says you. Oh, pretty red dress and the flash. Sorry. We'll be back before you can say all our knowledge begins with the senses proceeds then to the understanding and ends with reason. There is nothing higher

than reason. Immanuel Kant, who was very ready stable. I think I'm ready again. Anyway, thank you for giving us some wisdom in English. Jackson makes a change. MUSIC Hi, esteemed podcast listeners, Simon Mayo. I'm Mark Kermot here. I'm excited to let you know that the new season of the Crown and the Crown, the official podcast, returns on 16th of November to accompany the sixth and final season of the Netflix epic Royal drama series. Very exciting, especially because SuperSub and Friend of the Show Edith Bowman

hosts this one. Indeed, Edith will take you behind the scenes, dive into conversation with the talented cast and crew from writer and creator Peter Morgan to the crowns Queen Elizabeth Emelda Staunton. Other guests on the new series include the Crown's research team, the directors, executive producers Suzanne Mackie and specialists such as Voice Coach William Connaker and props master Owen Harrison. Cast members including Jonathan Price, Selim Dor, Khalid Abdullah, Dominic West and Elizabeth Tabicki. You can also catch up with the story so far by searching The Crown, the official podcast,

wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe now and get the new series of The Crown, the official podcast, first you get your podcast, subscribe now and get the new series of the crown, the official podcast first on November 16th. Available wherever you get your podcasts. Happy Nord Christmas. Protect yourself while Christmas shopping online and access all the Christmas films from around the globe. Plus, when you shop online, you'll have to give websites your card details and other sensitive data like your personal addresses. Those websites should already have their own encryption built into their payment systems, but to be on the safe side, you can use a VPN to ensure that all data coming to and from your device is encrypted. Even if you're using an unsafe Wi-Fi, you'll still be able to shop securely with a VPN. And you can access Christmas films

only available overseas by using streaming services not available in the UK. To take our huge discount of your NordVPN plan, go to NordVPN.com-take. Our link will also give you four extra months for free on the two-year plan. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money back guarantee. The link is in the podcast episode description box. As an email here from Jonathan Jerry, Jonathan Jerry, Jonathan Jerry, yes. I am a science communicator at McGill University in Canada, and I once taught you how to do a French Quebecer accent.

I was also... Kebacquois. Yeah, but that's not what he's written. He's written Quebecer, as in Quebec and then E.R. at the end. Anyway, I obviously forgot. I taught you how to do a French Quebecer accent on the show, following your interview with Denis Villeneuve. I think I could be of help once more.

The story of Mark's friend who couldn't browse for records in a record shop because of an urgent need to use the toilet. Yes. Rings true. It's called the Marieco Aoki phenomenon. Right. For Marieco Aoki phenomenon. And it's usually associated with browsing for books.

Ah. February 1985, issue of Japan's Honso Zashi, which translates as book magazine, the blue the lid on this phenomenon. The magazine printed a short letter from a woman named Mariko Ayoki, who had realized that wandering inside a bookstore triggered this urge to relieve herself. A Simon Pulso that happens to him in libraries.

Yeah, following publication, the magazine received several reports from readers who regularly experienced the same. Their next issue had a 14 page feature article on this unsolved mystery. Wow. The horse was out experienced the same. Their next issue had a 14-page feature article on this unsolved mystery. Wow. The horse was out of the barn. The Marie-Co-Aoque phenomenon was apparently,

according to book magazines, sensationalistic headline, shaking the bookstore industry. LAUGHTER Maybe that's why they've all closed. Many hypotheses have been put forward to explain the phenomenon, including the smell of books, stress, and simply the illusion of an association, meaning that it's not only, it's not really a thing, but now that it's part of pop culture, people notice when they feel the urge in a bookstore and not

when they're anywhere else. I wrote an article about it and I had to call it the unbearable poopness of bookstores. Ticking it down with the Nazis and up with the bowel movement when it is inconveniently coming down. So this is very interesting and which kind of now suggests that if you want to run a successful bookstore, you need a bathroom. You do, you absolutely do because you can make that a feature. Never mind fancy coffee or croissant or something like that. You don't need that. You need a bathroom. Well, it also can't be completely unconnected that quite often in people's the smallest room in the house as it used to be referred to. Although many people's houses is now the biggest room in the house. They have a selection of reading material that is generally thought,

They have a selection of reading material that is generally thought, you know, it's like, you know, your grandfather will go to the outside, cosy and take a copy of the daily mirror with him, because it wasn't just because you need something to read whilst you relieve yourself, because it doesn't actually take that long, but there was a thing about browsing through stuff, helps you to try hard. Clem from France. Hello to the whole team. They're more on this same subject. Just wanted to butt in, double pun highly intended. With a piece of information, you may find interesting.

In France, there is a pretty famous rule of three, known as La Regle d'Etois C, the rule of the three, so it should be La Regle d'Etois C, the rule is the three C's. Okay be La Regle de Toassé. The rule is the three C's. Okay. Cafe, clop, cacca. Coffee, cigarettes, poo. I just looked it up to check, but I didn't know. There we go.

The clop was French for cigarette. Anyway, there it is. Cafe, clop, cacca. Tried and confirmed by your, yours truly when I was a smoker and a coffee drinker, the trifecta is real. Yes. TTOF, H2JI, all that jazz, hello to Simon, here. I mean, that makes sense though, because that's to do with adrenaline, isn't it?

They both caffeine and nicotine are stimulants. And they, you know, yeah, absolutely. Bruce McLaughlin, dear flight attendant, and there's more inflatable. Is this different? You'll see. Long term sort of 2005 legacy listener, and I think third time emailer, I was listening to the discussion in last week's podcast about people who regularly use film quotes in everyday life. It made me think of something that definitely wasn't everyday life, but was I think one of the finest uses of a film quote ever. And I saw it on of all things air crash investigation.

QF72 was a quantest flight from Singapore to Perth in 2008. It suffered two sudden and uncommanded drops of thousands of feet, causing negative G in the plane, which led to several injuries to passengers and crew. The plane had to make an emergency landing in the plane, which led to several injuries to passengers and crew. The plane had to make an emergency landing in the far north of Western Australia. As they were coming into land, the already shaken crew were terrified that another sudden loss of altitude would cause them to crash. The atmosphere in the cockpit was extremely tense, as you can imagine. It was at that moment that the pilot said to his crew, looks like I picked the wrong

day to stop sniffing glue. That's very good. Well, no one died, but there was still investigation into the incident. Investigators were most impressed when they found this on the cockpit voice recorder. That's not normally when you hear about the cockpit voice recorder. That is cool in the face of a crisis to make that cake. That's from Bruce Tilly, tongue down the analysis, but not down with passenger airplanes mid flight. Box office top 10 at 85, love without walls, which I think is powerful. I think Jane Gold is a very fine director.

We've had a lot of chorus, well, a lot of people got in touch to say that in Irish, it's Nile, in Scottish, it's Neil. So I believe it would have been Nile in which case. So my apologies for getting that wrong last week. Number 20 is Evil Dead Rise, which it's fun and it's gory and that's okay. It's not scary, but it's definitely better than the much more straight faced FeliAlvarez reboot. Number 11 is Madoosa Deluxe. Paul says, dear Fontage and Quafure,

just got back from a screening of Madoosa Deluxe in the words to describe how I feeling are, perplexed, confused, and joyous. Good. It is a beautiful film that uses the continuous, shot-style, really effectively creating tension and sense of continual movement, like watching a large domino's

display, and you're not sure if it's going to stop before the end. It has really impressive detail of the hair showcasing it as an art form. The deconstructed murder mystery style did bamboozle perplex and confuse me at times, but the final scene during the credits somehow brought it all together with great joy. I'm not still not fully sure what every part of the film was about, but there was something very satisfying about it. It may not be for those who want a clear narrative, but it was certainly a fun and vibrant cinematic experience that oozes the passion that Thomas Hardham and has for storytelling and film. I see, I think that's absolutely spot on. I think it oozes enthusiasm for cinema, and you don't need to understand all of it because it's not meant to be tied up neatly.

As I said, one of his great idols is Ken Russell. Number 10 is Warpony, not a Tom Robinson song, but it could be in the future. I think it was Warpapy. Yes, it just changes. You were a Warpony. It doesn't quite work, is it? So this is an intriguing draw.

A code directed by Riley Keo, set in South Dakota Reservation. Non-professional cast used to great effect, one the camera door, which is the first feature award at Cannes. And yeah, not bad at all. Number nine is, is it right to say more? I would say more. So this was a M-A-U-R-H. M-A-U-R-H-S. So it's Punjabi language film, not press screen. So if anyone's seen it, let us know. Correspondent to carbonamau.com. Number eight here.

Number 23 in the States is Chevalier. I have to say that's gone in lower than I thought it was going to. I mean, you and I had a discussion about whether or not Chevalier would be a hit. And how many screens was it playing on? So anyway, I had sort of, I thought it would go in higher than that, but it's, it's an interesting film.

It's a, I think it's a, you know, it's a solidly three-star movie with a very, very good central performance by Kelvin Harrison, who if you haven't seen it yet, go back and watch the video of Simon infuing Kelvin Harrison, Jr. in which he- And Lucy Bunden. Yeah, and Lucy Bunden, no, but the reason I was saying Kelvin Harrison is because he wears your glasses all the way through.

Yeah, and where is she just fantastic? Where is she just looks fantastic without wearing your glasses? Yes. No, it's never happened before, but here it was quite fun. Seven here, seven in the state, Super Mario Brothers movie. Just unbelievably successful, still hanging on in there. And the fact that it's in there above Shivalier even now, in how many weeks has it been? It's 10th week, it's just bonkers.

But I mean, yeah, so okay, so looking at the number of locations, Shivalier is playing in 40 screens. No, it's not. Shivalier is playing in 283 screens. Super Mario is still in 488 and it's 10th week. It's astonishing. Boogie Man, is it number six? Which I think is an interesting, well-done, generic film.

I like the director very much. I would like him to do something less generic like the host. Fast X or fast X is at number five here, number six in America. Family. And number four here, 4 in the States, Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3. Still doing very well, particularly considering some of the subject matter is very dark.

A little mermaid is at number 3 here, and number 3 in the States. Here's an email from Mark Haines, dear Camuppance and Goodriddance. Ah, satire. He says, LTL and FD, moved to email you about this film because the impact it had both on me and on mydance. Ah, satire. He says, uh, LTL and FD, moved to email you about this film

because the impact it had both on me and on my two daughters. Mark says it is not the fact that both young girls sat gripped for over two hours, nor the impressive, uh, catchy Lin-Mau-Muel Miranda show tunes that are on constant repeat in our house that caused me to email for the first time. It is the casting. I am the white father of black daughters who rarely get to see leads in children's films, let alone Disney princesses that are black. To also have a black queen in the film was the icing on the cake. It may sound ridiculous when talking about a mermaid princess to say, if you can't see it, you can't be it. But now, when my girls play with their friends, they too can be aerial.

And they can also think of themselves in powerful roles and worthy of encodes, happy ever after. The normalization of ethnicity blind casting is to be celebrated. I sat next to my girl's holding hands in the cinema feeling better about the world and was inflicted with a mild case of pals. This is parent-affected, like, Ramosti syndrome. Either that or dust in my eye, of course. I understand that

Mark didn't see the need for a new version of Little Mermaid, but did praise the mixed casting in his review. However, I just I wanted to give an alternative perspective and to underline how important films like this are. Loving the show, Steve, I'll owe to Jason. And thanks to you and the great red actor for many hours of emotional support entertainment. You've given me over the years. Thank you, Mark. Thank you for the email. You may well remember that when the trailer for Little Mermaid first dropped, there was this kind of viral video of young kids watching the trailer and seeing for the first time

Ariel's black and the joy the joy on their faces immediately followed by the you know It is called it what it is by the racist backlash of lunatics who went well she can't be most not right You know she's got you can see his Danish and she's what, you know, and it was in it in itself that is vindication and reason for the film to exist that it caused that joyous reaction in those kids watching the trailers and then it caused that outrage from those Trump supporting you know wingnuts whose leader is currently been indicted on 34 and 37 charges, and most recently felony counts, but they still think should be president. 80% of Republicans apparently still think that Trump should be president even if he's convicted. Why? Because they're mad. If you

want to see a disappointing mermaid, go to Copenhagen and look at the statue of Little Mime and it's not really worth going to see. So number two is number two here. Number one in the state's transformers rise of the beasts. Rob says LTL, SDE, an avid transformers fan and collector. When Michael Bay ravaged the beloved Transformers IP between 2007 and 2017, much time was spent trying to find the good among the bad as they were the only live action movies that we Transformers fans had to watch. When Travis Knight's Bumblebee was released in 2018

and it showed the world what a good Transformers movie can be. Everyone, she is full of heart, fun and a dash of action and characters that aren't just cannon fodder making guttural nonsense noises are obscured by motion blur and handheld camera shakes. I thought Bumblebee was excellent and was what the Transformers franchise sawly needed and I spent the next five years eagerly awaiting it's sequel. I agree with Mark in that Bumblebee is the better film, but Rise of the Beast didn't exactly have much else to live up to, given how low the bar had been set by Michael Bay movies. As a fan of the franchise, it didn't blow me away as much as I would have liked it to, but I do feel satisfied with the movie and I'm now

looking forward to the next installment. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely once Michael Bay stopped directing the films, they got infinitely better and this is not as good as Bumblebee, but it is better than any of the Michael Bay abominations. Number one in the UK number two in the States is Spider-Man across the Spider-Verse. Is it overtly so? Elliott, age 27, Mark and Simon. First of all, please find attached a framed signed poster, courtesy of you good selves.

Summed to grace my walls of Robert Eggers and Heavy Metal Worship, a few of these left in the store. Apparently there you go. There's a photo of the poster, which you signed. Wow. Available at the merch store. I just came back from seeing Spider-Man across the Spider-Verse. I wasn't a fan of the first one, so I did go in with some trepidation, and unfortunately, everything I disliked about the first movie came back with fruition for this one. Firstly, the animation. Sure, it's quite the technical achievement, but it's horrible to look at. The glitchiness, frame rate, and colour blasting just doesn't work.

The narrative is a shallow as my local swimming paths, and the characters, particularly Gwen, have about as much charisma as a Tory politician. Can I just say, just in parentheses, down with charismatic politicians in general? Yes, exactly. Exactly. Give me lack of charisma politician. And again, to refer to the previous conversation, would you like Joe Biden, a boring old man who has got a massive amount of great things done, or would you like Trump, a charismatic

crypto fascist lunatic supported by bonkers allegedly right, allegedly Christian right wingers? It wasn't a conversation though, it was a monologue, just saying. What was a monologue? The Trumpian stuff. Oh yeah, yeah. Truthfully though, Elliot continues, my biggest issue with these movies is the message it sends. The phrase that was banded about with the first movie was, anyone can be Spider-Man, which, whether taken literally or not, is simply false. You can't be whatever you want to be in life, and you are not entitled to anything.

The world owes you nothing. I believe messages like this are incredibly harmful to humanity. It sets out unrealistic aspirations that 99% of people to walk this mortal coil will simply never achieve. For the record, I don't like having this view. I sat in the cinema with two friends absolutely chewing up the scenery.

I found it to be my least favorite cinema experience of the year is what it is. Can't like them all. Down with shaky animation. Best wishes, Elliot. Okay. Well, I mean, firstly, thank you for having the good grace to say, this is what I think I can't change what I think. I'm not, I'm not delighted or pleased about it, because that's actually the essence of difference of opinion, isn't it? I'm sorry, I like the rubets, a lot of people don't. There are many reasons for not liking them. None of them are going to affect me. I really did enjoy across the spiderverse, but I'm not sure that I took away the same message that you did about the world as that you did about, you know, the

world, those you were living in, you are entitled. I mean, there are, I mean, I haven't seen it, but that, you know, you can be whatever you want to be. You can achieve anything is palpable nonsense. And yes, it is palpable nonsense, but it is palpable nonsense that occurs in a number of stories. Of course. Absolutely.

And Elliot is obviously saying, this is just one of the movies that I don't like because of that. Yes, but that's partly like the Nick Hornby question about whether or not pop music is bad for you because pop songs about love are bad for you because they give you unrealistic expectations of love. And you go, yeah, but I still like the romance. Coming up, we're going to be talking to Andy and Barbara Miscetti, who the director and producer Coming up, we're going to be talking to Andy and Barbara at Miscetti, who are the director and producer, sibling duo responsible for the flash stats on the way in a second. This episode is brought to you by Mooby, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe.

From my connect directors to emerging otters, there's always something new to discover, for example. Well, for example, the new Aki Karri's Macchi film Fall and Leaves, which won the jury prize it can, that's in cinemas at the moment. And if you see that and think I want to know more about Aki Karri's Macchi, you can go to Movie The Streaming Service and there is a retrospective of his films called How to Be a Human. They are also going to be theatrically releasing In January Priscilla, which is a new Sophia Coppola film, which I am really looking forward to since I have an Elvis obsession. You could try Mooby Free for 30 days at Mooby.com slash Kermit and Mayo. That's M-U-B-I.com

slash Kermit and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. Get holiday ready at Real Canadian Superstore. Will you find more legendary ways to save than any other major grocer? Until December 13th, you'll get a free PC turkey when you spend $300 or more. That's right, free! Only at your Super Holiday Store. Conditions apply to fly for details. Now, today's guests are a power sibling duo. Also, further proof as we started to talk about last week of Stephen King's influence on almost every conversation that we have

because I joined by the director of The Flash and the Miscetti, directed it and it chapter 2, plus his sister Barbara Miscetti, who is the producer of The Flash. You can hear my interview with them after this clip from The Flash. So let's imagine that it is in fact possible for you to run faster than the speed of light than so doing travel back in time. It still would be wildly irresponsible. I do, you're going to say that. Yes, because very few word of go into the past. Any interaction you have with your parents or yourself,

you step on the wrong blade of grass, you have no idea what the consequences to that can be. No, I know, the butterfly factor, right? Yes. I get it. The proof. I can fix things. You can also destroy everything.

And that is a clip from The Flash. I'm delighted to say I've been joined by its director, Andy Muskehti, and producer Barbara Muskehti. Hello, how are you? I'm good to say I've been joined by its director, Andy Muschetti, and producer Barbara Muschetti. Hello, how are you? Hi, Simon. I'm very good. I'm in my studio slash spare room. Where are you guys?

We're in Madrid. We had our Madrid premiere yesterday night, and we are here doing press for the day, and we're delighted because we love Spain. We lived in Spain for about 14 years. So, you know, the Spanish people in Spain are very dear to our hearts. Introduce us, both of you, please, to the flat. We've seen the flash before.

This is first solo outing just introduces to this picture. Yeah, as you said, Simon, it's a first solo picture. It's a character that has been introduced before in previous movies. And this is the story where Barry realizes that he's running so fast that he can go back in time, significantly. And the first thing he does is try to go back and save his mom. And just explain, explain just a little bit there about what has happened to his mom and why he's so determined to go back and change things.

Well, yes, for people who don't know what Barry Allen's mum has been murdered around 10 years ago. When he was an age-old boy. And he's not had been incarcerated, framed for that, so his life turned a pretty bad turn at that when he was a child. So yeah, now he's going to do it. And everybody recommends him not to do it. Yes. Putting his friend bad men. Well, including most of the audience, I suspect, because we remember a Superman movie where Superman flies so fast around the world

that he goes back in time and it's never a good idea. No, it's never a good idea, but he works for him. That's true, because low, because low is survived. So that's absolutely true. And how did you both get involved into this world of the DC universe? How far back are we going now? So we had the DC like our, our loving of DC. No, just when, when you were, because the last thing I saw from both of you was the, was the it movie and then the sequel. And it, you know, at what stage did they say to both of you was the it movie and then the sequel. At what stage did they

say to both of you, can you get on board with the Flash movie? So we did the two it films with Walter Hamada, who at that point was the key executive at New Line Pictures. So we had a relationship with him. He during it to became the head of DC films at Warner Brothers. And from that moment, he started nudging us to jump ship and work with him at DC because we had a great relationship. There was a lot of trust. And he, you know, he tapped us for a few projects, but the one that lit the spark was the flash. Now, and can you just explain where this sits in the DC extended universe? Because this was made, as I understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong, this is made under the previous DC studio leadership. And the now new CEOs, this is the last of

that batches, this the transition to the new CEOs, is this the last of that batch? Is this the transition to the new batch? Is it the start of the new batch? How do we see this film? Well, there's, yeah, this may be what made before James Gunn. And so that's a good question, actually. Like that, James Gunn loves this movie as well as Peter, as well as everyone on this side. Uh, of, wait and see how this movie works, I think, because I trust that the future architecture of DC will be fantastic. Again, this movie is fantastic as well, Simon. I think it's allowed, we certainly hope that this movie is absorbed by the new universe.

And it does establish the multiverse, which is something a good, is something that could be used in the future world. But I think that, you know, we're still done now. Right, early on in your film, I enjoyed Flash being a little bit annoyed with his lot in life. And he describes himself as the janitor of the Justice League. He's just clearing up the mess. Can you just explain a little bit about what's happening there?

Yeah, that is correct. I mean, we found, we find him five years after we saw him for the first time active in the Justice League. And I thought it was a good place to find him in a place that it's st installed and frustrated. And nothing seems to work right before he discovers that his power is going to take him once to be young, what his life is.

He's also, you know, Barry Allen is younger. He, you know, compared to a character like Batman that is, you know, so testosteroneic. That's a good word. And clearly doesn't clean up his own mess, you know, it's up to, it's up to flash to Barry Allen to be sweeping behind Batman. He doesn't enjoy this, of course. Yeah. How important, I think we can talk about Michael Keaton. So I've mentioned it. So I'm hoping that that's okay. How how important was persuading Michael Keaton to get involved with this film for the project? How important was that? Very much. We all we all get we all get our hopes very high

while we first thought of it and we wouldn't drop it. So I don't know how it would have been said no, but I think it was Alex, I think it was us. His job was it your job, Barbara, is the producer to go and persuade him. Did you both go? How did it end up? No, we both went, but you know, in the end, I can do everything I can, but Michael is going to buy in, you know, only if Andy establishes the trust to guide him. I can tap down my way to the moon and that's still not going to be enough for Michael Keaton to jump in. So we were both there, but you know, the bond is done between a director and an actor who

are bottom line going to be there in the front line getting that scene. Did he need persuading? Andy, or did he jump at the chance? Because it feels to me, it's like it'll be like a gut instinct. Well, did you want to go back and do this again, or don't you? Well, there was a bit of jumping in and a bit of persuasion because there were two sides to it. I guess one was everything that Batman was or Batman is up to now and I think obviously well now obviously but Ethan was excited about coming back. What we did, what I did was pitch in the story, I pitched one my ideas where in this movie and basically where we find Bruce Wayne 30 years after. Among my intentions were for the character. Of course, with a lot of respect because he basically created this character with this

version of the character. Along with that. So my persuasion, you will have to do with telling him what my expectations were about the character. And that was a focus or about main focus of our conversations. As a director and producer, can you explain from your point of view what it is that Esra Miller brings to this role? Magic.

Esra is unique. Esra is incredibly smart. They are brilliant. Esra is an incredible comedian. And I can't imagine having anybody but them playing this particular role. Andy, we brought a brilliant aim comedy in Emotions and commitment to the character that I've never seen before.

Broly, the best experience I had with an actor. There is a line in your film, which really, I think your audience will take note of, kind of jumps out and flash mentions, the lack of mental health care, the members of the Justice League get. And it's sort of a joke, but also given the controversies and allegations and so on, which have come with Ezra in recent years. And Ezra has apologized for their behaviour and getting treatment for their mental health and so on. But that line in your film carries extra weight. Don't you think? Yeah, I mean, it wasn't our intention. Obviously, there was just a line we created. So,

I mean, there is no relationship really to that. We can't tell you that, you know, we are have a lot of empathy for people who need help, especially when it comes to mental health issues. And, and as I has been taking the necessary steps to recover and we support him in that. Was there any time where you feared for the future of the picture? Not really. The thing Simon is we always had a lot of confidence

in this movie and our confidence only grew as we went. You know, we started with a good, very good story with a better script and then the execution made this project even better in confidence for the movie. Just grew up, thanks in part to S-RES, incredible performance. And, you know, over the course of a year,

post-production, again, our trust and confidence in this movie just grew bigger and bigger. So there was really no moment where we started or lost confidence in that region. I think this is where we fascinated with the brother sister dynamic going on here. And whether brother's where the siblings get on well, people will have different experiences of that. The idea of working on a daily basis with your sibling is an intriguing one. Do you, and no, Barbara, just first, do you just have the same direct to producer conversations that would happen normally, like it's time to stop filming? Everyone

needs to go home. You spend all the money. 100% we have them, but they're a lot less polite. Because we're siblings and we solve our differences very fast. Because in the end, we want the same, and we have such trust for each other that we understand that when one is asking something from the other, it's really, I have worked with other directors, and he has worked with other producers, but this is the best.

I mean, the trust that we have for each other is, you know, unconditional. So, Andy, when your sister tells you to stop filming, you stop? No. The short answer is no. The long answer is there's discussions, more finding, and I basically, there's a whole conversation about why it's important to me to keep a shooting, anyway. It goes on and out for a while, and then I keep going for a little bit. There's a little bit of overtime. And yes, that's a long answer. No, no, no, everybody.

It sounds good too. You know, tell you that sometimes you win, sometimes I win. It's fascinating. Andy and Barbara Miscetti, thank you very much indeed for your time. Wish you all the best and enjoy the sunshine. Andy and Barbara Miscetti, director and producer of The Flash. Thank you for correcting me on my pronunciation, which I don't always say. Well, there's this...

It could be anything, but that's the one that... That's the correct one. That's what they say, so. That's right, so... I say Kermode. Other people say Kermode, but they're wrong. Exactly right. So the flash, we have seen the flash before, but the flash has an edit's own picture. No, so worth mentioning because you covered an awful lot of ground in that

interview. The screenplay is by Christine Hodson, who's CV includes Bumblebee and Birth of Prigis, because that just didn't come up. So, to recap very briefly, and I'm very conscious of the fact that at the screen that I saw, there was a thing at the beginning which said, look, please don't give any spoilers, you know, I'll help people to enjoy. And I'm so fine.

What do you, so yes, but there are some, no, there are some things, things that I think we, like in the interview, we talk about Michael Keaton precisely. So I did know anything about that. But I think that is now out there.

And I didn't either. And when it came up in the interview, this apartment kind of flinched. Like, isn't that one of the things, but then of course, as everyone said, no, that is out there in the ether. So to tread carefully by essentially saying things that were in the interview. So the story is Barry Allen, the flash can run so fast that he can go back in time. He discovers that this is the case

and he is advised against doing it because butterfly effect is very dangerous, but he immediately tries to go back and save his mom who was murdered when he was eight. His father is currently in prison framed for the murder. There is the whole thing about video surveillance camera footage that may or may not exoner, his father is currently in prison, framed for the murder. There is the whole thing about video surveillance camera footage that may or may not exonerate his father, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. As you yourself said in the very first Superman movie, after the lowest,

after the unfortunate event involving Lois Lane, Superman flies around the world so fast that he goes back in time and he's able to fix the problem. Probably the only time in the history of time traveling that doing that has worked out and everyone's happy about it and and hooray. So when he goes back, he goes back to a world in which So when he goes back, he goes back to a world in which the Batman that he knew is not Batman in the past. Indeed, there is a central gag about it's a different Batman. It's almost as if you you you change from one multiplex screen to another multiplex screen to a world in which Batman is now played by him because you brought this up in the interview. And as you said, it's out there in the world. It's Michael Keaton.

Michael Keaton's Batman, who was the Tim Burton original Batman, um, is now washed up and be draglled. I mean, it's interesting that Keaton's career goes from Batman through Birdman back to Batman in this. And, you know, he enjoys it very much. There's also, and again, I don't think this is a plot spoiler because this is, it's also now a world in which, back to the future, didn't star Michael J. Fox, because we were talking about this in the review of Still, that Michael J. Fox was not the first actor to star in

back to the future. They shot for two weeks with Eric Stoltz, and there is apparently still, still one shot in back to the future, which has stolt in it in just the same way that if you watch Apocalypse Now, the overhead helicopter shot of the boat leaving the dock, that's Harvey Kytel. It's, you know, it's so these things happen. So he appears to have slipped through the streams and entered a different version of the timeline and throughout the film, there will be encounters with incarnations of characters who in other movie franchises have been played by other actors.

So in a way, you're sort of in the Doctor Who world in which it's possible for the three doctors or the five doctors for different people who have inhabited the role of doctor who to meet and coexist. I mean, so this, we first started talking about multiverse universe stuff. This is really the first time I ever saw that done was the three doctors. Well, how can they help me together in the same room? Wow, it's completely mind blowing.

There is also, of course, the issue that when you go back in time, you can meet yourself. And that's very, very dangerous. As everyone's, we don't go back in time, you can meet yourself and that's very, very dangerous, as everyone's always had, don't go back in time, don't meet yourself terrible things. See you back to the future. Precisely. So, in terms of the thing about you go into a world in which other characters who have other actors who have played these characters before can coexist.

So, that's not dissimilar to Spider-Man no way home, which was a lot of fun and again everyone kind of went out of their way not to, you know, not to spoil something, but I think people kind of had an assumption of what was happening. More significant, however, the sort of multi-timeline fractured world multiverse, I think was done much better in the spider-verse animations, and it's interesting that right now, spider-verse is sitting at the top of the, across the spider-verse, is that number one in the UK box office, and it's dazzling, and it's doing really, really well with audiences, and people love it. So, I think there is an obvious precedent both in the live action Spider-Man movies and in the animated

Spider-Man movies that this kind of fractured multi-versed, multi-stranded parallel universes thing is being done better in those movies. This is very full of fan jokes and I mean I've always had, I understand the fan service thing because I'm a fan of horror movies and I've always had, I understand the fan service thing because I'm a fan of horror movies and I've always, when horror movies nod towards other horror movies, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, this is absolutely full of fan jokes. I mean, I don't want to mention any of them

because there are a couple of little Easter eggs in there that even I thought, oh, that's cute. You know, that's nicely done. That's a good gag. But I don't think it's doing anything that the Spider-Man franchise did better. The Esremilla thing, you asked the question about what does Esremilla bring to the role? Because obviously, Esremilla is in a complicated situation in terms of their things that have happened in their private life,

and I know that they have now committed to, you know, the apology. It's troublesome and problematic. It's troublesome and problematic. And the answer was, well, they bring magic. I know, actually, think that's true. I mean, I think Ezra Miller was terrific in, we need to talk about Kevin. And I remember seeing them in that film and thinking, wow, you know, that's really, that's a terrifically exciting screen presence.

I don't know that that is actually true in terms of the role of the flash. I mean, it's fine. It's a kind of cheeky, slight... I just don't know that that performance is as charismatic or as absolutely no one else could do this better. I think it's fine, but I think it's only fun. That's partly, I think, because the character of the flash is, it's complicated to get that character right, and it's complicated to make that character anything more than a cipher for a whole bunch of plot devices. And there's a kind of dead ring as David Kronenberg, dead ring as acting with yourself thing,

which is complex to do, and I think they get that right. But I don't know that what they do is give you know, complex to do. And I think they get that right. But I don't know that what they do is, is give you an incarnation of a character. What do you, you, you, you know, what you were about to say something? Please go ahead. When Barry puts on the gear for the first time, I thought the flash just looked like David Williams.

That was my problem. It looked like David Williams was being the flash. That's Williams. That was my problem. It looked like David Williams was being the flash. That's why I was not agreeing. But are we on the same page? I liked the intimate stuff. I liked the personal conversations. Like say, there are some, there are some cute jokes. When it got to the multiverse, I thought it was a mess. And my heart sank just because we've seen it, we've seen it, we've seen it. It does nothing. It just breaks, you can do anything. You know, all of a look at what we've done,

look at what we've brought back. And I just, the multiverse for which there is no shred of proof anywhere is now become this place where they go to tell a story. And it just, I think it's boring. Okay, well, without wishing to, I mean, I think the no shred of proof thing, if we take that, we're gonna wipe out

most of horror cinema and most of science fiction cinema. I mean, demonic possession doesn't exist, but I love the exorcist. And well, you can do space and you can do Krypton, you don't have to do multiverse, that's all I'm saying. I think that if you look at across the spiderverse into the spiderverse, that those are films that are doing multiverse interestingly.

I think everything everywhere was doing interestingly. I think for two thirds of the Flash and it's too long, it's kind of fun. There's fun to be had. And it's certainly, it's a relief after the doom and gloom of the snide-averse. It's kind of at least it's bright and shiny. I think in the later sections, it becomes fantastically video gamey. It is surprising that a film of this level

has got some of the shonkyest CG, I've seen. I mean, okay, some of the CG is good. Some of it is really like, maybe that was part of the multiverse problem. Then the fact that, you know, when you're using CG that heavily it's working very hard. Yeah and CG does a lot of heavy lifting and it's and it's bad CG will just absolutely take the wind out of anything. So I think that the third act is exhausting rather than exhilarating and I think that you know in the final stings it's just like really. And I think that, you know, in the final stings,

it's just like, really? So I think it's fine. I came out of it thinking, I want this to stop. And you talked about, you know, are we the end of this or the beginning of that? Yes. I don't think they genuinely think they don't know. Yeah, no, I genuinely think they don't know.

And I genuinely think that the numbers will tell us what the answer to that question is. But I think artistically, it's wrong. It's, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's wrong, dry, right? Isn't it? I think, I think probably is. And obviously, there are also other question marks over what happens to me as remodeling the future. So, yeah, we'll wait. So, you know, but there's, there's stuff in it like, there's stuff in it that I enjoyed. There's two gags that I laughed out loud at, and there's one Easter egg that I thought that's really smart. At in a moment, first, let's step again with great joy and let's skip in your step into

our laugh. I'll keep in your step into our love, Patrick. Tally. Tally. Tally. Tally. Hey, Mark. The good lady, ceramicist, her indoors, bought a Sylvester Stallone pillow this week and put it in the middle of the bed. Since then, things have been rocky between us. A bit of a caffuffle in show. I sort of saw that coming.

A bit of a caffuffle in Showbie's Nore's London this week. A lady from up the road set fire to her, all of her bills in the middle of the road had to call the fire brigade and everything. What's her name, are you asking? What's her name? This is the old four-tops joke. What's her name?

Bernadette. Some more bad news though, Mark, I discovered this week that I'm colorblind. The news came right out of the pink. Aye. What are you gonna be reviewing next, by the way? I'm going to be reviewing pretty, one, it's called Pretty Red Dress,

but I was going to be, or in your case, pretty blue dress. Thank you. Back off to this unless you're a Vanguard Easter, in which case, I always feel more intelligent after reading your work. And your service will not be interrupted. With banking packages from Scotia Bank, you can put money back in your pocket.

That's how Marcus was able to invest in everything he needed to launch his podcast about his pets. Welcome back to PetGasd! Visit ScotiaBank.com slash welcome offer, Scotia Bank conditions apply. Metrolinx and cross links are reminding everyone to be careful, as Eglinton Cross-Town LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert, this trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals, be careful along our tracks,

and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. safe. A good email from Tom. I've written it at the top of this email, RTFQ. So it's one of those kind of exam advice. I think we'd all fall down to the general. I've now, I've shown it mentioned this before. My kids had a geography teacher who read the flipping question. This is the most important thing. Okay, this is the most important thing. And if you don't read the question, then really,

you're on your own against it. Tom says, a market assignment, re-Simon's story of the test within a test, where the first question was to put down your pen and leave the room. I actually had this experience, or one very similar, from my English teacher, Mr. Taylor, while at school, it's still lingers two and a half decades later.

I think this is a great story. Mr. Taylor was determined to teach us to read an entire exam through before starting. I remember this. Yes. So that you know what you might spend your time on. Yeah, and the choices that you have to make, and maybe your brain is starting to work on some of the latest questions. So we could figure out which questions would need the most time to answer.

Yes. After a year of him repeating this advice, ad nauseam, we were presented with a mock exam which enlarged bold letters at the top, instructed us to read all the questions thoroughly before answering. Yes. Being the 11 year old numpty that I was, I, along with most of the class, ignored the message and begun answering the first question. It wasn't long before somebody noticed that not everyone was in a rush to get through the exam, and one by

one, the pen is dropped for the rest of us. A quick scan through the question paper revealed that the last question on the back page read, if you've not written anything yet, put your pen down and I'll give you a Mars bar at the end of the class. Now sweets were the height of contraband at school and Mr. C. They were absolutely like all ways, dished out the good stuff in the king size variety. Wow. I did not, says Tom, I did not get a must for that day, but his lesson on time management proved much more valuable. And along with many words of wisdom he imparted

is now hard-coded into my brain. Good teachers, leave a lasting impact. And Mr. Taylor was one of the best. He's genius, but is the last question. Very, very good. There is, and I'm sure it's a pocryphal. There is a story about an exam question. And this is usually told when it was Oxford or Cambridge.

So it's like very clever people. And the question was, what is risk and some brilliant person wrote this? I'm sure that's apocryphal. Yeah, that's what exactly. And it was probably Manchester. He said, so does he Manchester like that? Manchester.

Manchester, you know. And your child like that? Manchester. You know, um, a child one went to Manchester. So I'm a big fan. Yeah. Child one. I know. Child two went to Manchester. I know. But you know, just saying Jesse Armstrong went to Manchester. Yeah, exactly. Uh, okay. What else is what else is out? What else can we go and see? Pretty Red Dress, which is a new movie by Dion Edwards, which is opening today. The story is that Nati Jones is Travis, who at the very beginning of the film comes out of prison and is met by his partner Candace,

who's played by Alexandra Burke, of course, you know, former ex-factor winner, turned multi-platform superstar. She is a diehard Tina Turner fan, absolutely loves Tina Turner. And she has been offered the chance to audition for a big show about Tina Turner. And this is potentially a big break for her. She goes to a clothes shop with Travis

looking for something to wear, and they find this pretty red dress, which has got kind of like tassels and very Tina Turner, very, very eye catching, but it's a lot of money. And there's a question about, you know, are we going to be able to afford it? And, you know, meanwhile, they have a daughter who is a teenager who, as with anyone going through adolescence, is a mixture of uncertain about herself and sometimes stroppy with her parents. Here's a clip. How would you show a boy you let him personally? Uh-huh. Yeah, like as a female.

We've been children and stuff. What? I think he just thinks that we're friends. Well, it's the five senses baby. Right, listen. I contact. Very, very important. Touch. Touch his arm, touch his hand. Sound. Voice. Don't overlook it. Talk., laugh at all of his jokes. Smell. Excuse me, appreciate the smell, that's Chanel. You're getting a game of that one.

And last but not least, taste. Well, you can save that one for when you two are. Ooh, Chanel, such a bummer. So, Timberlohalola, Aladdin Botion, as the young daughter, like Jones, as Travis and Alexandra Burke, as Candace. And so, you have these three different strands of the story. Somebody who's kind of trying to find their way in life as a young person,

somebody who is suddenly offered the opportunity of a lifetime that may be their dreams of being, and somebody else who's come out prison wants to reestablish themselves as the man of the house. But in that scene in which they buy the dress, an interesting thing happens, which is that Dano was the director, concentrates our attention on his face, not hers. And you see him looking at the dress. and I think what is he worried because it's too expensive that they can't afford it? Does he want to buy it anyway so that he can demonstrate his love for his partner? Or is there something else going on that you're not entirely sure about?

And then as the drama progresses you discover that each one of them has a kind of a disjunct between the side of themselves that they they know about and the thing that they project to the world. Most centrally, in the case of Travis, whose attraction to the dress is not simply that he thinks it will look fabulous on his girlfriend. And what the film then does in a way that I think's really kind of fascinating is that the director said it's about emotion and the key emotion is shame. And she also said that what she wanted to do is to ask what happens, what's the cost of suppressing the deepest part of ourselves. So on the one hand, you've got something which is a kind of an upbeat comedic edge drama about somebody desperately

wanting to play teen eternal, and of course, she is a brilliant singer, and she does the audition with the piano and all the rest of it. On the other hand, you've got a coming-of-age story, somebody sort of trying to find who they are, and, you know, but keeping secrets from her parents. And on the other hand, you've got a very sort of performative version of Macismo. It's always good to match up with Macismo. But somebody who's, you know, they're a, they're a, they're a, they want to, to assert themselves as a strong man,

but they have a side to them, which is absolutely contradictory. And also somebody who is torn between that thing about, they want to keep one part of themselves completely secret, but they also desperately want to show that part of themselves to the world. And I think what the film does really nicely, and in a really, really engaging and upbeat way, is to take those kind of complex issues, and to play them out as a drama with music. I mean, there are times that it virtually tips over into being a musical. You know, it has musical numbers in it, not everyone bursts into song, but because of the Tina Turner auditions. And it's also interesting that there's something magical about the dress. You know, we were talking about in fabric,

the Peter Strickland film, which I absolutely love, in which a dress passes from person to person and has a transformative effect on them. In the case of that, it's kind of mesmeric. Well, this has got like a fairy tale edge to it. There is something magical about the case of that, it's kind of mesmeric. Well, this has got like a fairytale edge to it. There is something magical about the dress. So, you know, it's kind of like, you know, the one hand perspective, you've got, you know, some like it hot, and at the other end, you've got in fabric, and somewhere in the middle of that

is this film is pretty red dress. And it also has that kind of, we talked about Rylane recently. You know, Rylane is set in locations that you recognize, but it's about characters who are dreaming of other worlds, you know, their heads in the clouds. And I think it straddles that really, really nicely. And I think in the end, the message of the film is, you know, you can dance to different beats without losing your footing. And I think that that's a really sort of positive and an uplifting message. I really liked it.

And I think we'll hear a lot more of the onedwoods and the performances are terrific. Cinema release? Cinema release, absolutely. Okay. What's on next? You can get in touch. Correspondence at CovenAmeryer.com. Before we get to our correspondent this week, Moira O'Leary, L-T-L-B-A-Noons, Skinner Matyth, University of Massachusetts at Amherst in 1993. I was delirious that and blade. I was delighted to hear that Stephen Meyer, an actor whose work I have long enjoyed and appreciated was not only an M-T-L of your wonderful show, but also a contributor in the form of a voice memo about the film he recently directed. As a fan of Mr. Moyers, I may be able to help clarify a couple of the comments in his

recording. The illusion to teeth was likely a reference to Mr. Moyers' time, starring in the HBO series True Blood in which he played of Ampire, also the good lady Thessby, and he mentioned is the Academy Award-winning actress and a Pac-win, another star of the show with the teeth. Thank you for your endlessly entertaining posse in the podcast. Take it a tongue down with bad vampires and up with the nice ones from Mora. Larry, thank you Mora. This week's correspondent, here we go.

Hello, Mark and Simon. This is Sir Knielein from the Screen Studies Centre at Manchester Metropolitan University. Next week we'll be celebrating with the brilliant Neil Brand, a celebration of Anthony Burgess at the piano. This is on the 22nd of June in Home Manchester. We look forward to seeing people come and celebrate the wonders of silence cinema, including the record, Asquits, Underground and Chaplain's Easy Street. Tickets are available from the Home Box Office and online. We look forward to seeing you on the 22nd of June. That was Dr. Cirque de Lleint. I hope I've got that roughly right. Senior Electrian Film

Studies and American Studies and Founding Member, the Manchester Centre for Gothic Studies. May I just second that emotion in terms of the Neil Brown thing? You don't want to miss Neil Brown doing this. The man is a genius and is an absolute joy to watch him doing this sort of thing. If you'd like to attend the Anthony Burgess at the piano event celebrating Silent Cinema 22nd and June, quarter past six, head to the home box office and online. If you'd like to be a correspondent, tell us about your event or anything to do with cinema. Send your 22nd or whatever you fancy, really, audio trailer about your event anywhere in the world to correspondents at carbona-may.com and Steve Moir got such a great response to his

message. If you're a celebrity, you know, if you're a well-known actor and you'd like to send us a voice note, we'll put it out. Can I just mention very quickly something which we completely forgot to is that Sange is in the flash. He's in the flash. And the best guys, and I came out and I messaged him and he said, he was concerned that he didn't make the edit, but he definitely did. Yeah, because he hadn't said to me, or you, hey, I've just done a bit in the flat.

I don't think he thought he was going to make the final version. Although the final version is like two-asms really long. I mean, I think they threw everything, but the kid, but Sange is in there. Yes, he is now a DC superstar. He's absolutely fat. That's right. Sange has entered the DC multiverse. Doing American accent.

Doing American accent. Very convincing. At least the end of take one. This has been a Sony music entertainment production. The team was Lily Hambley, Ryan Amera, Sancha Pans, a gully to Kelly. Sorry, Gully. Beth Perkin is the guest-booker and assistant producer, Hannah Tolbot was the producer, Simon Paul,

so the red actor Mark, what is your film of the week? It's Fern, Gully, pretty red dress. Take two is also available. The fact is landed at the same time. Boom! Take three with you on Wednesday. Here it is. Take 2 is also available as if it's landed at the same time.

Boom! Take 3 with your Wednesday. Here it is.