Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Another Paul Feig film? Do me a Favor

Episode Date: May 1, 2025

Vanguardistas have more fun—so if you don’t already subscribe to the podcast, join the Vanguard today via Apple Podcasts or extratakes.com for non-fruit-related devices. In return you’ll get a whole extra Take 2 alongside Take 1 every week, with bonus reviews, more viewing recommendations from the Good Doctors and whole bonus episodes just for you. And if you’re already a Vanguardista, we salute you. The 50th anniversary re-release of ‘Slade in Flame’ is making Mark very happy this week, and he’ll be reviewing this “Citizen Kane of rock movies” at the top of the show to celebrate. Starring the real-life Black Country glam rockers as the fictional band Flame, it follows their rapid rise and fall via record company clashes that reveal the darker side of the music industry. Plus, new (and new-ish) releases ‘Thunderbolts*’, the Marvel anti-hero ensemble starring Florence Pugh, and ‘Sinners’—Ryan Coogler’s 1930s southern gothic tale of two twin brothers coming face to face with evil when they return to their Mississippi hometown in search of a new start. It came out while we were on our holibobs, so we’re catching up this week with a full review and some top takes from those of you who have seen it already. ‘Another Simple Favor’ is out this week too—and we’ve got director Paul Feig, also known for ‘Bridesmaids’, ‘Spy’ and, yes, the all-female Ghostbusters remake—on the show to talk Simon through it. A follow-up to the 2018 hit ‘A Simple Favor’, it sees Blake Lively and Anna Kendrick reprise their roles in a genre-mashing comedy-mystery-crime-thriller, this time on the isle of Capri. Feig talks power dressing, breaking his no-sequels rule, and how that Blue Origin all-female space flight could definitely be straight out of one of his movies. Mark reviews it too—and we also hear plenty from you wonderful wittertainees, including your takes on Mark’s ‘Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith’ review. Enjoy! Timecodes (for Vanguardistas listening ad-free): Slade in Flame review: 11:34 Sinners review: 27:49 Paul Feig Interview: 36:44 Another Simple Favor review: 50:05 Laughter Lift: 57:20 You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo Please take our survey and help shape the future of our show: https://www.kermodeandmayo.com/survey EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] And to find out more about Sony’s new show Origins with Cush Jumbo, click here&l Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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salute you. Well, I'm just, can you sit up a bit in that chair? Oh, Bailey, is it Bailey Brothers tea shop? Yeah, George Bailey. George Bailey. He invented Bailey's, didn't he? He did. The late night drink, which is just way too sweet unless you add whiskey. No, but Bailey's has got whiskey in it, hasn't it? I know, but it's still too sweet. So therefore, if you double the whiskey content of a Bailey's,

it suddenly becomes a decent drink. Or, no, if you want it to be a decent drink, you could just have whiskey. Yes, I know, but sometimes Bailey's just softens the blow. Does it really? It's like that line from the Australian Wine Society, which of course now is dated very, very badly, but this is not a wine for drinking. It is a wine for lying down and avoiding. And it's funny that now we live in a world in which Australian wines are considered to be amongst the best. I was trying to find a t-shirt this morning that I wanted to wear for the podcast, which

is one of the worst t-shirts that I've ever had. that I wanted to wear for the podcast. Which is one of the worst t-shirts that I've ever had. But I wanted to wear it out of respect for Mike Peters of The Alarm, who died this week. I had an Alarm t-shirt and he was one of the loveliest guys. He was just a sweetie all the time. I played 68 guns yesterday on the show. Anyway, I had a blue and green tie-dye Alarm t-shirt. I've gone to Atlanta and the good ceramicist is working for a couple of days. I've got a couple of days in Atlanta to myself. The only thing I could find to wear was my alarm t-shirt. I go to see Silence of the Lambs on my own. That was great. Then I'm wandering around and I suddenly realise I'm walking past Martin Luther King's church.

Suddenly realise also it's a Sunday and hundreds of people are piling in. And I walked past and I'm thinking, okay, it's Martin Luther King's church. You're never, ever going to be here again. Really? You're not going to go in. So anyway, I decided to go in, even though I'm wearing the scruffiest t-shirt you have ever seen. And everyone is immaculate. When you say Sunday best, this is incredible. So then I realised it's Palm Sunday, so the church is absolutely full. For the first time in my life, I'm the only white person in a building, and it's got like a thousand people there. Anyway, I looked down the running order,

or order of service as I think it's called. The second item in is the welcoming of strangers. If there was anyone in this congregation who looked like a stranger, it was the white guy in the balcony in the alarm t-shirt, which is yellow and green and completely disgusting. Anyway, so it gets the welcoming of strangers and the priest says, are there any other ministers? Because I thought I'm going to leave, this is going to be too embarrassing. Are there any other ministers from out of state? So there's loads of ministers, they all stand up. And then he says, is there anyone else who we haven't mentioned? And it turns out that up on the balcony, I'm in the middle of a choir and they're all from out of state. So

we all stand up at the same time and I stand up, wave briefly and sit down. But I spent the whole of the service in my alarm blue and green tie-dyed t-shirt feeling about one inch high. But I wanted to wear it today, and unfortunately I couldn't. It's the kind of thing you'd have wiped the car with after you'd had it for a few years because it was that scruffy. But I wanted to wear it because it was an alarm t-shirt. Did you ever see the alarm play live? No, I didn't. No, I saw them on top of the pops quite a few times. I remember you saying, because I'd never met Mike Peters, but I remember you saying that you'd interviewed him quite a few times and he was really, really nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He had the kind of the big, the sort of full hair system, didn't he? Yeah, no, absolutely. Also, that thing about being in church wearing something, you know, I mean, one of my favourite lines from Bill Blatty's, the ninth configuration, you know, would God care what I was wearing? I mean, I of my favourite lines from Bill Blatty's The Ninth Configuration, you know, would God care what I was wearing? I mean, I don't think so. I wasn't made to feel unwelcome. It was just me thinking everyone is, it's like going to a wedding and you've forgotten and you're wearing jeans and a t-shirt. It was me thinking you look terrible. No one else said that.

Did you worry that you thought you might look disrespectful? Not to, you know, but to everyone else? Was there any part of you that worried that it might look like you were disrespecting the occasion? I suppose so. I suppose so. It's just when everyone is, it's like if you go to a fancy dress party and you're the only one that is, it's just you don't like to be the odd one out I think. And yet the entire congregation made you don't like to be the odd one out I think. And yet the entire congregation made you feel that that was not the case.

Yes, exactly. No, I was fine and I was in the middle of this gospel choir, so I just mimed for the whole service. They still talk about it to this day. Do you remember that time when that scruffy oik came in in the alarm t-shirt? Yeah, yeah. I think they probably do. Anyway, you look very good in your Drink Bailey's t-shirt. Yep. Yep. I think they probably do. Anyway, you look very good in your drink Bailey's t-shirt. Bailey Brothers. I don't want to ever be associated with telling people to drink Bailey's because that's not a thing.

Drink Bailey's. It's great with ice and extra whiskey. On this podcast, Mark will be reviewing some films with these titles. Well, this is a really, really interesting week. So, there is Thunderbolts, Asterix, as you know, which is the new superhero adventure. There is the re-release of Slade in Flame, the 50th anniversary BFI re-release of Slade in Flame. We're also going to be catching up on the review of Sinners. People say, why didn't you review Sinners? Because we've been away for two weeks. I know there were shows during those two weeks, but we pre-recorded them before they showed us in and so we'll do that in the chart run. They were AI shows, they were complete fabrication. That's right, we didn't do anything

at all. Literally, Simon Poole just went onto the AI generator and said, give me two hours of just stuff and it did. And then a simple favour too with our special guest. Yes, it's director Paul Fiegg who will be with you very shortly. And in our bonus review for the subscribers who get extra value and a lovely life. Where Dragons Live, which is a sort of melancholic documentary and reissue of this week, you know, last week's show was basically a reissue show. That's why Revenge of the Sith was such a big deal. Monty Python and the Holy Grail is back. That's very good. That's a very wheezy cough there. Have you been on the Capstone footstrap?

There you go. I got a cut down on the 20 woodbines. Is that what it is? Is that what it is? Very good. Yes, don't forget, and subscribers get lots of extra stuff. And actually it's been scientifically proved that subscribers live longer and have a better life. Is that right?

Have you seen that survey? Yeah. No, I haven't. Will you send it over to me? Yeah. And it also showed that this podcast is actually the most listened to podcast in the world now. The whole world has. Yeah. And if you keep saying it often enough, it sort of sounds believable. So thank you for making this the most listened to podcast in the world. Dear Joker and Bane, this comes from Tim, LTLFTE, writing from Engineers Enclave, who were talking about single word, just one word that triggers a particular film memory. Regarding single words

iconically linked with a particular film, I offer the following. Family. Family. Obviously, full credit to the veterinarian, her indoors for very good. Two others could throw into the mix. One a bit obvious, Iceberg. I'm not even... And wasn't it Gourblimey? Mary Poppins was in Iceberg. And the other one which I wouldn't have got, which is Catchphrase. Oh yeah. Okay. So that's from, it's Tropic Thunder. No, no, it's not. No, Catchphrase is from the advert for movie, it's movie trailer or movie title. It's called movie title, isn't it? So it's clue for the latter, Ryan Reynolds beefy twin. Oh, I thought it was from, there's that short film that's on the internet, which is a spoof

trailer for every Oscar winning movie ever called movie title. And one of the characters keeps saying, Catchphrase. Okay. Well, Tim, that doesn't work because we're, you know, it hasn't instantly sent us anywhere. We're expecting to welcome our first child to the world this summer. And we'll of course ensure they're brought up in the finest traditions of the church. Love the show, Steve. Tim brackets and Leah, who tolerates the show, which honestly is a little bit annoying, but still, Tim, we rely on you to make good on that. Jack in Manchester, dear Paul Thomas Anderson

and Paul W.S. Anderson, hello to you good selves. Long-term listener here. Following up on last week's topic about single words that you forever associate with a film, I have an example of two separate words that I forever associate not only with the same film, but with the same specific scene from a film. Two words in question are drainage and milkshake. Naturally, whenever I see or hear either of these words, my mind jumps to the final scene of There Will Be Blood, where Daniel Plainview reveals to Eli that he has stolen all his oil with a brilliantly over-the-top delivery of drainage, Eli, drainage, soon followed after by the immortal line, I drink your milkshake.

I am a planning officer, says Jack. And so the word drainage comes up quite frequently. Every time I see or hear the word, my mind immediately jumps to Daniel Day-Lewis and his quite frankly demented delivery, which often results in me just stupidly smiling to myself whilst I'm at my desk, making me probably look quite strange to anyone who might catch a glance at me. Unlike drainage, milkshakes do not come into my work or my life anywhere near as often, but when they do, I'm also forever reminded of Daniel Day-Lewis' iconic performance in this. Daniel Day-Lewis does specialise in iconic performances, does he not?

His performance in that film is brilliant. Can I just say, because I'd just finished, I'd been writing this book about film music and it's finally at proof stage, so we got the proof copies of the day. I interviewed Johnny Greenwood in it and one of the things that Johnny Greenwood said was when he was doing them, because the whole thing that Paul Thomas Anderson approached him and said, he had a piece of music that he really liked and said, could you do more like this? And Johnny Greenwood was doing the music and sending it to Paul Thomas Anderson. He said that when he got the first version of the film back, he said there was so much music on it. It was just like literally Paul Thomas Anderson had just let music play all over

absolutely everything. He said it was completely insane. He said, and after a while, I just got to the point of thinking, can I just send you a ton of music that's got nothing to do and you just sort out where it goes because you know where you want it. And then you look at, there will be blood and you look at the way the music is used and there will be blood. It is, as I said in my review on this very show

when it came out, it is like redefining the grammar of cinema. It's an amazing, I know that everyone thinks about Daniel A. Lewis's performance, which is huge and fantastic, But that film is literally thinking about the grammar of cinema and the way in which cinema tells stories, particularly in its use of music, in a way that's just quite mind-boggling. Jason Vale Correspondence at CoventryMail.com, before we get to Slade in Flame, Ed Freshwater has just sent us an email.

Ed Sheeran Oh, hi Ed. Jason Vale Dear Rutles and Rebuttals, it's Kip's birthday on Saturday and we'll be watching My Neighbor to Toro and I would encourage fellow church members to do the same and maybe mutter some mild profanities in his memory. Blessings all around. Ed. Fabulous. Correspondence of Kermit and Mayo.com. Okay, so Slade in Flame, you mentioned at the top of the show, so you must be quivering

with excitement. So, as you all know, because you've known me for a long time, I have been going on about Slade in Flame for as long as you have known me, and in fact since I was 12 years old. Slade in Flame came out 50 years ago, it was a mid-70s, and it has been described by me as the Citizen Kane of British pop movies, and I've been saying that for pretty much as long as I've been saying the Exodus. That is true, I can confirm. It is. I mean, it is an absolute masterpiece. And when I first saw it, I was knocked out by it. I loved it. Sometime in the 90s, I used to go tour around with a very knackered

35 millimeter print of it doing introductions saying, look, this film is not what you expect it to be. And every time I showed it to people, they were like, oh, wow, I didn't expect that from Slade at all. Well, now the BFI have got completely on board. They're doing a full is back in theaters. Then it's also coming out on disc. I've had the great privilege of doing the director commentary. This is full disclosure. I've done the director commentary with Richard Longcrane, who went on to direct Richard III, that brilliant screen adaptation of Richard III with Suri and McCallan. Sorry, can I just say, it's a director's commentary, but you're on it.

Well, I'm interviewing him. Oh, I see. So you're assisting him. Precisely. So I'm saying, what's happening there, what's doing there. And that was a real privilege. And then on Thursday, if you're listening to this podcast, on Thursday, this evening, I will be at the BFI on stage with Richard Longcrane and hopefully Tom Conti, and hopefully Noddy Holder doing a Q&A about the film. So part of this, as somebody who has gone on about Slade and Flame being

such a great film for such a long time, part of this is just sheer vindication. It's like you were saying early on, if you say it for long enough, it will become true. Yes. When Slade and Flame came out, it was not well received by the fans. What happened was, Chas Chandler,

who was Slade's manager said, look, you need to do a film, this is what pop groups do. Originally, they come up with this idea of doing a silly science fiction spoof called the Quite a Mess experiment. Get it? But then Slade, or I think more specifically, Noddy Holder and Jim Lee said, no, look, if we're going to make a film, let's do it properly. So they make this film, which is about a band from the North.

It's set at pretty much end of the sixties. Band from the North, initially two bands, who were signed up by a businessman from the South, Tom Conti, and then sold to the public like fish fingers. They really can play, as we see in the early club scenes, but they need management and promotion, and this is what Tom Conti's character gives them. Very quickly, the joy of playing in a band turns into something altogether more corporate, altogether more disheartening. And they take part in all these stunts, one of which involves them getting sent out to a pirate radio station in the middle of the sea.

Here is a clip, and this is a fairly understated clip. You'll recognize the voice of the DJ, incidentally. But it gives you a sense of how much some of Slade in Flame sounds like it could be a documentary. So this is them as Slade as Flame doing a pirate radio station interview in Slade in Flame. And you're listening to the Ricky Storm Show right here on the Tower of Power. There you have it. That's the new record by Flame. And as I promised you earlier on in the afternoon, and I never let you down, let's face it, here they are in the studio. Hi lads, welcome to Radio City.

Would you like to introduce yourselves? I'm Stoker. I'm Paul. I'm Barry. I'm Sasek. Now Paul, is it true that you're the creative force behind the group? Er, no. Stoker, give me an honest answer on this one.

This is your first record and it's gone down remarkably well. How do you feel about it going down so well? A few of us are more worried about what's coming up at the moment. Any chance of seeing you guys on television in the near future? Well hopefully, yeah, definitely. And okay, so the thing about that is what's brilliant about it is that is pretty much what those interviews sounded like. Always did, yes.

And who's that as the voice of the DJ, Simon? Well, I was spooling through, is it Tommy Vance? It is Tommy Vance, well done. Because it could have been half a dozen, but eventually I ended up on Tommy Vance. No, it is Tommy Vance. He had a great voice, yeah. Yeah, and then Emperor Roscoe has a cameo later on. Anyway, so success brings bigger gigs, but also tensions within the band.

Meanwhile, their old manager from beyond is trying to figure out how he can make money out of them, even if that involves breaking some bones. The thing that's really fascinating is just how dark and gritty Slade and Flame is. Firstly, it's one of the best, I think, one of the best depictions of what being in a band was probably like during that period, the way in which you start out doing the music, but very quickly it becomes an industry thing. Second thing is Slade's performances are great, partly because they're playing pretty close to home, but partly because somehow what Richard Longcrant has managed to do is to make them

relaxed enough to look like they're not acting. I mean, Don Powell was suffering from amnesia after an accident, and he's actually pretty much the center of the drama, and he has this brilliantly unaffected performance. I've always, I mean, we all know that Noddy Holder is a great performer, but it's things like watching him and Jim Lee have these discussions about, you know, well, I'm not a fish finger. And then the manager says, well, that's the problem. The problem is people know what fish fingers are, but they don't know what flame is. The reviews when it came out were very sniffy.

Apparently the band had worried that if you lift them, Dave Hill particularly said, look, if you show them behind the golden curtain, if you show them that actually it's people rowing and it's, you know, grim meetings in rooms, they won't like it. And the fans didn't like it. The one person who did apparently stand up for it was Barry Norman, who apparently was impressed by how gritty it was. Great performances by Alan Lake, Tom Conti, Johnny Shannon, who are all fab. And then the soundtrack.

Now, the soundtrack, how does it feel is the main theme. Far, far away. Them Kind of Monkeys Can't Swing. I mean, I think, and I'm not saying this ironically in any way, I'm a big Slade fan. I think Slade in Flame is their best and most coherent album. I mean, I think it's just, but how does it feel? As you know, I mean, I wrote a biography about being in bands and I called it How Does It Feel and everyone went, Bob Dylan went, no, Slade. It's, it is, I think it is their greatest composition. So I think, but also, but also Bob Dylan, but yeah, but not in my case. I mean, because, because as you know, I mean, I like Bob Dylan,

but I don't obsess about Bob Dylan. And even better title, the fact that people thought it meant one thing and actually meant something completely different. But now you've seen it because I've, I've shown it when I had my 50th birthday, we read to the cinema, well actually read the cinema gave me as a birthday present, they gave me a screening room, we showed it. You've seen it, right? I'm not just saying this. It is not the film you see. It's not a pop glam, jolly film. It is a really, really brilliant depiction of being in a pop band.

Yes, but I can understand all of that is true, but I can also understand why the fans, who would have watched the Monkeys on television, they would have wanted that. They would have seen the Beatles living in the same house, being all quirky and zany and all that. They didn't want, you know, it took a Barry Norman and a Mark Kermode to realise what they were looking at. But I can understand if Dave Hill was thinking, no, I'm not quite sure if this is what people want. Well, I think that's absolutely right. I mean, bear in mind the kind of contemporary pop movies at the time were never too young to rock, you know, which had the Rebets and Mudd performing in the middle of a food fight in a roadside cafe. That was the kind of knock-off,

you know, Cliff Richard on a barge inventing the Bromberger in Take Me High. That was what pop movies looked like. But that was it. So in that- Was it called Take Me Higher? Take Me High. Take Me High, and it's not a drug film because it's got Cliff Richard in it. It's about inventing a beef burger. I mean- So it's a film in the 60s called Take Me High. In the 70s. In the 70s. In the 70s. It is Cliff Richard on a barge

inventing the Bromberger. And I'm not making this up. You can go and watch it. Okay. Better things to do. The point is when I said, and I was very specific about this, the Citizen Kane of British pop movies, I was very clear part of that was to do with the landscape of British pop movies. But part of it is it's a proper film. One of the great things for me, the really, really great things for me is that I guarantee if you haven't seen Slade in Flame, there's also this debate about whether the film is called Flame or Slade in Flame. And when I did the commentary with Richard Longcray, I said, what are you calling it?

He said, I've always called it Slade in Flame. So I said, fine, that's what we're sticking with. When I was doing the commentary, I was asking him about the reception. He said, the funny thing is, because of the way it was received when it came out, that it was sort of overlooked. He said there was one review that they got when the film first came out that said, I don't even need to see this film because I know it's terrible. That was a printed review of the film. And 50 years later, I think, well, I still think, but I think other people still think, if you haven't seen it, go and see it.

It is not the film you expect. It is a really tough, gritty, warts and all portrayal of the rock business with some of the best songs that Slade ever did, some really great performances, and I think brilliantly directed by Richard Longcrane, who's a terrific director. I'm so proud to be any part of that film's history. Okay, box office top 10 this week. At number 10, number 9 in America is Warfare.

Well, I really liked it and you really liked it, but we both said at the time it's going to be a tough watch. I was speaking to somebody who runs an independent cinema in London. I said, how's it going down? They said, well, everyone who sees it thinks it's brilliant. But there's two things. Firstly, the sun is out. And also, the thing that everyone has been told is it's a tough watch. Mason- I think it's one of the most extraordinary depictions of warfare. And 90 minutes that feel like two and a half hours, but for the best possible reason, which is you need this battle to finish and be over. Number nine is Thadaram. Is that how we're saying it?

Will Barron Well, I think so. I haven't seen this, and I don't think it was press screened. This is among the highest grossing Indian Malayan films. If anyone's seen it, as you know, we've been away for the last two weeks. I don't think it was press screened last week. So if you've seen it, let us know. The amateur is at number eight. Which is kind of fine. I mean, very nuts and bolts, but passively entertaining while it's there. Yes. A period drama from the period of time when the CIA were the good guys. If indeed. When was that Simon? Just nail that down for me. Maybe that's not a rabbit hole to go down. Penguin Lessons is at number seven.

Which I think is much more charming than you would expect it to be. I mean, as I said in my review, Steve Coogan said when he first was told about it, he thought it was almost too cutesy for him. But then he was told, no, look, there's something else in there. And actually, the fact that he's got such a kind of an abrasive personality on screen, the character, the version of the character that he plays is kind of when we first meet him is quite an obnoxious person. That actually is just a little bit of a stringence that you need. And I've actually seen it twice now, the second time around with somebody from Argentina. And I am rather charmed by it.

Until Dawn is at number six, number five in the States. So again, this came out during the period that we were away. So I haven't seen this. This is a survival horror film from David F. Sandberg, who did, well, Annabelle Creation and then two of the Shazam movies. Apparently derived from a PlayStation game. Again, haven't seen it. I will catch up with this hopefully next week, but if you've seen it, let us know. Number five here, number six in America, Pink Floyd at Pompeii, MCM LXX11. Well, Child One went to IMAX to see this because we talked about this in last week's show about how this was basically the sort of the revivified version of Pink Floyd Live at Pompeii. Anyway, she

went to see it at IMAX Sunday morning, packed screening, full of Pink Floyd heads, all of whom absolutely loved it. And she was moved to tears by it. Everyone who's a Pink Floyd fan will have seen Live at Pompeii and will know everything about it. But the fact that it's been remastered, it's got this particularly the remixed soundtrack, yes, it is that film in the most spanking version you could see. Mason- We do have correspondence on that. I think it's going to have to go into take two because we're very busy here. Star Wars Episode III, Revenge of the Sith, is that the most spanking version you could see. Mason- We do have correspondence on that. I think it's going to have to go into take two because we're very busy here. Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith is at number three. Toby- We've had so much stuff on the YouTube channel under the review of Revenge of the Sith.

I said that I had gone back and talked to Child 2 about it to say, look from your generation's point of view, what's the story with Revenge of the Sith? It is really, really interesting how many people have said, yeah, that's the whole point. It's a generational thing. Your generation, meaning my generation, told us that we weren't allowed to like these films, but they are for us, the films that the Star Wars films were for you. And I think once again, I mean, I don't think I'm ever going to be a fan of Revenge of the Sith. I don't think that the problems with it, which incidentally everyone's very aware of, particularly the central performance, are ever going to go away. But clearly, there is a generational

thing here, which means that in a way, it depends how and when you first saw it will affect it. Rob O'Connor says, Simon and Mark, I was as amused as I was disheartened by Mark's change of heart concerning Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith. I know the value of nostalgia just as much as anyone. I've defended some pretty ropey James Bond and Batman films in my time because of how much a special place they occupy in my heart. However, I think there has been a sort of mass delusion regarding the Star Wars prequels amongst my generation. It's led to this strange reevaluation

for highly commercial, cynically made films that are at best a celebration of George Lucas's hubris, as he spent three boring films for getting the breezy matinee serial camp that made Star Wars so accessible and fun in the first place. I was nine when Phantom Menace came out and almost 15 when Revenge of the Sith came out.

So I effectively, I am this magical target audience that grew up with the films. Truth be told, I loved Phantom Menace when it first came out and I was equally fond of the other two. I think they've aged like a Wexford strawberry, however, and while they may be packed with interesting ideas, they contain some of the absolute worst execution in blockbuster history, which simply isn't true of the absolute worst execution in blockbuster history, which simply isn't true of the original trilogy. Another common defense is Lucas is insisting that his films are aimed at a younger audience. Films aimed at a young audience can be wonderful though. Look at Disney's Renaissance

early Pixar, the Lego movie, Into the Spider-Verse, and then look at Jar Jar Binks stepping in poo. I'm all for nostalgic reevaluation, but I think in this case, we've all got a bit carried away. When your generation insisted to mind that The Empire Strikes Back was a masterpiece and the prequels were terrible, I think they may have been onto something. So there you go. Well, look, as I said, there is not a right or wrong answer to this. I mean, as I said, I don't think I'm ever going to be a fan of those films because I don't think I'm ever going to be able to get over the problems that you just stated. I think they're badly written and badly executed. As I said, the one concession I would give to Lucas when I said he can't write, he can plot,

but he's not very good at dialogue. But I am also, and believe me, this is an aging thing, the older you get, the more you look at the way in which people respond to cinema, the more you become profoundly aware of the fact. Not only is everything to do with individual responses, but there is a generational thing happening there. Obviously, in your case, you're cutting against the grain because you were those ages, and that's fine. I mean, I felt like that about most of the things I thought when I was a teenager. It's not that a generational shift means every single person in that generation thinks this, but it is also of the prequels,

I think it has been clear that the people who embrace the prequels for whatever reason, this is the top of the tree as opposed to the bottom of the pile. Mason- Before we get to Sinners, I forgot, I skipped over because I can't read, The Accountant 2, which is at number four. Al- Yeah, as did I because I've been away. Mason- Okay. So, Accountant 2 at four, Star Wars at three, and Sinners is the American number one and it's number two here. Yes. Now, shall we start by just having a little taste of the Sinners trailer? Listen here.

This ain't no house party. Y'all ready to drink? Y'all ready to sweat till y'all stink? You keep dancing with the devil. One day he's going gonna follow you home. We got us a problem now. What the hell going on? Oh, we heard tale of a party. This world already left you for dead. I can save you from your fate.

You don't need no saving. Yes, you do. And you are? I am. You're a way out. It's a good trailer, isn't it? So as I said, we didn't review it at the time because we've been off for two weeks and it hadn't been screened before we left. So hybrid period drama horror thriller with a strong musical element written and directed

by Ryan Coogler, who made Fruitvale Station and the Black Panther films, I think, is the thing that's probably best known for. So, early 30s Mississippi Delta, identical twins Smoke and Stack, both played by Michael B. Jordan, returned to Clarksdale, which as you and I have talked about before, I spent quite a lot of time in Clarksdale, home of the blues, home of the Riverside Motel, the place where Ike Turner was knocking together Rocket 88. Anyway, so they buy an old sawmill, which they turn into a blues-filled duke joint, and then their paths cross. This is all against the backdrop of old school Jim Crow racism,

with Irish nocturne Remick played by Jack O'Connell who arrives at the Duke joint with two compatriots and asks to be invited in. Now, when people arrive asking to be invited in, that means one thing in particular. The film was tailor-made. I mean, because it's been out for a couple of weeks, I imagine that everybody pretty much knows everything about it, but I'm trying not to spoil anything. So look, Taylor made for me in terms of its thing, you know, 30s Delta blues, Clarksdale, elements of supernatural horror, resonating guitars everywhere, mouth organs, story told through dueling musical styles, and of course, this element of supernatural horror. Tell me what the listener emails have said and then I'll tell you how I responded. Let me summarize because they're quite lengthy.

Okay, cool. Jasmine says, went to see it at local Cineworld here in Edinburgh. It's a film we've both been looking forward to. She's gone with her boyfriend, Matt. As fans of Ryan Coogler, though to my great shame I've yet to watch Creed, I walked out of the cinema completely awestruck and said to my boyfriend, can we watch it again right now? On surface level, Sinners is a story about twin brothers who return home after several years away from their hometown on a Mississippi Delta, but Sinners is so much more. Ryan Coogler does a phenomenal job in blending genre and using music as the main

storytelling tool. The context as a woman of colour of West African descent, albeit also part Swedish, whose ancestors were brought to the southern US as enslaved people. This film struck a chord in me because it speaks of the black experience in a way that is relatable even in 2025. However, The Beauty of Sinners isn't just in the music, but the themes it covers, which are so relatable. It talks about the false idea of freedom and the, in quotes, the American dream with the smoke and stack, making a deal with the devil to buy the sawmill. It's also a love story with a bittersweet ending and teaches you the dangers of not being true to yourself. And Matt, again, a long email from Matt, but essentially he says he went to see it at the BFI IMAX. He says, hands down, the most incredible experience I've ever witnessed at a cinema. The direction, acting, costume, music,

themes, camera work, intensity and mood of the whole film was nigh on perfect. This is exactly what cinema needs. That's an edited version of what Matt says. So here's the interesting thing. So obviously the deal with the devil, everyone, the Robert Johnson story, Birth of the Blues, all that stuff. In that very first email, there was the line about telling the story through music. And this is the thing that particularly gets me

about the film. And bear in mind, going into this, I was very conscious of the fact that I'd been sent texts by people that said, this film is made for you. It's got so many things that you're interested in. And immediately you want to go, okay, well, fine. So can I be critical about it? Or can I just going to go, oh yeah, I love the fact that it's a Dobro resonator. I love the fact that it's there. I love that, you know, all that stuff. There is a scene in it in which they go and find the three Irish rogues led by Jack O'Connell.

They are sitting at a stop and they are playing Wild Mountain Time. Will you go, lassie go, da-da-da, da-da-da, that song. It really reminded me of the use of fair and tender ladies in Winter's Bone. That scene when she goes up to the shack and they're playing Fair and Tender Ladies and you think this is going to go really, really badly wrong. There is no way this is going to end well.

It also reminded me, and incidentally hats off to Ludwig Goransson who was in charge of all the music, The music is really fabulous. But the fact that they go from the blues joint where there's the whole thing about, should you be playing this kind of music? You've been blessed with this. All that stuff is tied up with it. They go to that, then they go to this place

where there's this rendition of Wild Mountain Time. And I was thinking while I was watching it, this reminds me of something. What does it remind me of? And I say this as a compliment. It reminded me of the way that Alan Parker used music in Angel Heart. Now, Angel Heart is a different setting.

Angel Heart is the 50s, although it's changed from the novel. But there's the whole thing in Angel Heart that an awful lot of the story is told through the music. If you listen to the music, it actually tells you the story of the film. I thought the way that Ryan Coogler used the music and specifically the kind of dueling musical styles and the narrative of the music was just, okay, fine. I'm on. I mean, I am on board. I mean, I know the characters are saying stuff and they're doing stuff and all that sort of it, but the music is telling you what's happening in the film.

So I really enjoyed it. I'm really glad I was away when it came out because I missed the whole thing that apparently has dominated the headlines about how much it cost and how much it will have to take in order to make its money back, which it will do. But it's like one of those things where it's like straight to the heart of the periphery in the case of this is that with all this stuff going on in the film and that's the thing that you're complaining about. Applaud it to the cast, which is a very good cast, including Hallie Steinfeld, Dory Lindow is terrific. Jack O'Connell is genuinely creepy. Honestly, the film would have had to get a lot of things wrong to have lost my support because just from the beginning, I was in there.

The fact, for me, the thing that worked for me, and different things will work for different people and different audience experience, but for me, the thing that worked for it was, this is a story told through its music. It's so well done that the songs are telling you the story. And it would be number one if it weren't for the Minecraft movie, which is very number one, you know, as we said. You know, I don't know what else there is to say about the Minecraft movie, apart from, you know, it is what it is.

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Whatever your answer is, Toyota is here to bring you closer to the things that matter to you. Because they matter to you, because they matter to us too. Toyota, for what matters most. Okay, ready, let's do it. Which song starts with those words? Okay, ready, let's do it. And then is that an amp buzz that you were, it's kind of a synth drone. Cause then Phil Oakey goes, welcome to the voice of, telling you stop your sericulture, which he then, what is a sericulture? It's, it's, isn't it to do with, isn't sericulture getting silk out of silkworms? This is being boiled by Human League, by the way.

Yeah, in case you want to think you want to know what we're talking about. There was a great interview with Phil Oakey many years later in which he said, look, I didn't know what any of those words meant. They just scanned. They did one of the worst concerts I've ever been to. Was it? Which was a shame, yeah, because they were so iconic. Sericulture is the process of cultivating silk worms to produce silk.

Thank you very much. That's what I just said. If only Phil Oakey had known that when he sang that line. We'd have loved it even more. Okay. What's coming up? Oh yes. I know what's coming up. Paul Fiegg is coming up. He's this week's guest. You know him as a director and sharp-dressed man and professional upsetter of online dude bros. Also for glossy fun, often female ensemble cast films, bridesmaids, simple favour and that Ghostbusters reboot. Now he's made another simple favour, a sequel to the 2018 comedy mystery thriller starring

Blake Lively and Anna Kendrick. You'll hear my conversation with Paul Fiegg after this clip. -♪ Emily, how are you here? I'm getting married. Will you be my maid of honor? That I mentioned it was in Capri? Capri, yes, she is in. We're all in.

BORN ALIVE D'ALIAS Why am I here? You think I want to make you pay Capri, yes, she is in. We're all in. Why am I here? You think I want to make you pay for stealing my life? Who's the lucky guy? Dante Versano, old money. It was a great deal that you're here. I would rather shave my balls with a rusty knife than be at this wedding. That's a clip from another simple favorite, delighted to say I've been joined by its

director Paul Feig. Hello Paul, how are you sir? Good, how are you today? You're looking, I'm fine, thank you. You look fantastic. Thank you. As people have come to expect. In fact, I always think that when Paul Feig comes to the UK, he goes to Savile Row.

That's what I think. So the press interviews of course, but then there's some Savile. I have to stop by and get some maintenance done on some of my suits and order a couple new ones. Excellent. Well, I'm aware that I'm dressed like a teenager again. So, introduce us to another simple favor. Obviously it's a follow on from the first film, but just where are we for your film? Yeah, we're five years past the first one and Stephanie's life has gotten pretty good. She's solving a lot of more crimes and writing books and doing her Hi Moms podcast.

But she's kind of in a little bit of a place where she's had something go a little bit wrong with one of the cases she was solving and it's thrown her confidence off a little bit. And so, but she's promoting her book that she wrote about Emily from the first movie. And in the middle of her book reading at a bookstore, Emily shows up and asks her to be her maid of honor

because she's getting married in Italy. Stephanie has no idea why the person who tried to kill her wants her to be her maid of honor, but she can't resist the detective in her wanting to go and figure out what's going on. Just to give a little flavor, you mentioned the appearance at the book reading. Can you just describe the outfit?

We've been talking about clothes a lot already, but describe that outfit that she drives here. Well, it was full credit to Blake Lively, because I know for the first movie, everybody loved her power suits. You know, that was a big thing that we had fun with doing. And a lot of the fans were like, oh, we can't wait to see more power suits.

I didn't want, nor did Blake, nor did my costumer, Renee Kalfus, to just repeat what we did before, but we wanted to kind of ease out of that. And so when she showed up, we were kind of like, oh, she should be in one of her suits. And then Blake was like, I should be in a prison suit. And Renee and I were like, well, that's interesting. How do we do that?

And then Renee and her team found this amazing fabric that has stripes on it that are green, and light green and dark green, and then found this kind of jewelry that's almost kind of shackle II chain II looking and put that together so it's kind of it's sort of Emily's wink and nod of like hey I just got out of prison and it kind of sets a tone I think really what's coming just back to the original films had 2018 am I right in saying that the first film sort of became during lockdown, it was one of those

films that gained in reputation, that it became like a cult hit almost and that people, that's what one of the things they remember of lockdown. Yeah, I mean, honestly, that was what made us go, well, maybe we should make a sequel because I always avoid them. You know, and the original movie did really well in theaters. We made over just under $100 million with it for a $20 million budget, so it was pretty good. But yeah, it was seeing that people were really rediscovering it, or discovering it for the first time,

that made us go, well, maybe there's something more to do with these characters. When we reached out to Blake and Anna, we were like, you guys be interested in doing another one? They were like, sure. So then it was just the challenge of like, how do we come up with a story that's gonna move us forward and not feel like we're just doing a redux of the first one. And so it was fun. It took

a while to kind of figure out exactly what the movie turned into. I mean, you mentioned being sequel-verse in passing, but it has been a big absolutely why would you go back? And you always said you would not go back. So was it the overall concept? Was it the idea? Was it the script? What was it that made you think, oh, okay, yeah, maybe I should be doing this? It was kind of all the above, really. It was the fact that audiences had fallen in love with these two characters and liked the tone of the movie

and liked kind of the craziness that we put in there. And so thinking like, well, we can go in and kind of do that again, but put it in a new setting and maybe even kind of up the twists a little bit more. And we had some kind of like loose threads to play with from the first one. And I don't want to make any spoilers, but you know, certain characters show up

where you're like, oh, okay. So, and I was really, you know, when our writers came up with that, that we were working with, it was just like, that's a great idea. So it becomes cumulative. You know, there's something we developed that like halfway through development,

I'm just like, it's not happening, so let's just abandon it. And this was one that could have gone that way, but it would just kind of, every time developed that, like, halfway through development, I'm just like, it's not happening, so let's just abandon it. And this was one that could have gone that way, but it would just kind of, every time I'd be like, I don't know, is this right? And one of our writers would come up with another idea, you know, and then the actors were coming up with ideas too, and it just sort of grew and felt like something you had to do. You've been quoted as saying you tried to kill it.

Oh yeah, I tried to kill it many times. Again, because I'm just, I'm terrified of sequels, because, you know, the first movie's one of my favorite movies I've ever done because I really got to do a lot of the things I've always wanted to do in other movies, which is play with tone that much. And I love thrillers. That's kind of, I don't really watch a lot of comedies. I watch mostly thrillers and horror movies just because I like the extreme stakes of those things. Whereas a lot of comedies in sake of the comedy don't have the high stakes that they kind of pull me along. So to be able to kind of merge those two genres in a way and be true to it was fun. This is a quote about a simple favor but you you

said it was a Hitchcockian thriller that's how you thought of it. Is that? That was the hope. Has that bled into this? Yeah I mean to me it's the same tone you know it's it's you know obviously nobody can touch H, but the same, what I loved about Hitchcock's movies is that there was still a lightness to them through some of the side characters were funny, some of the interactions between the main characters were funny, some of the villains were extreme in a way that's kind of fun. And so that's what I look at as kind of being a Hitchcockian tone, meaning you're true to the genre, you're true to the stakes, you're true to the danger, but you can have some fun within

it. We spend most of your film in Capri. I haven't been there before. A lot of people will be going, yep, I think I'm going to try and go there. What are the logistics, given it's a beautiful island, what are the logistics in filming in such a small place? It's very difficult, very difficult, because it's just access is the hardest part. Because other than the road up from the marinas up to the main part of town,

there's no other roads that you can drive cars on. So you're either doing things on little tiny carts, or you're walking stuff and carrying stuff by hand up hills, very steep hills. And then also when you're shooting, you have to kind of stop foot traffic and stop this cart traffic so you can shoot and not ruin the sound and not have a bunch of people in your background.

To stop traffic for two minutes to do a take backs up thousands of people in the streets. I mean, you literally grind the island to a halt. You know, and I've been going to, my wife and I've been going to Capri for 30 plus years. And so we know everybody there. And even at that it was hard. Even then you could tell they were like getting really upset with us. But at the same time, at least we could kind of play off of people we knew who were there who were really good at talking to the other locals and kind of heading it up. Julia Natale is

somebody who, one of my friends who lives there there who was such a help of just kind of Getting us past some of the people going like other locals wanting to kill us basically so it was difficult I had a thought and tell me if this is utterly ludicrous because I have three quarters of the way through I thought this could have been a musical And there's just something about the set pieces. Maybe it's the maybe it's Capri. I don't know Maybe it's the costumes, but it's it's kind of out there. Oh yeah. Is that a completely weird thought? It's not completely weird. I mean, the only danger of the musical

is does it take people out of the reality of the stakes. That's the only thing, you know, because if you're in like, oh my god, this feels so tense, oh my god, what would I do? And then suddenly it bursts in the song, you're like, well, okay, what's going on here? But, you know, there's a lot of musical elements to the movie.

Have you ever done a musical? No, I'm dying to though. It's one of the one of these genres. I'm desperate to do We've been trying to develop musicals in my company forever, but it's gotta be right It's got a really nail it right and you know, they're really difficult to make good AI has come up as a conversation piece a lot on the podcast We talked about it in relation to a number of different stories. If you break down Paul Feig film, what role does AI have at all, if any, in a Paul Feig film? Hopefully none. It's funny, during the writer's strike, everybody was so freaking out about AI. I've never been that worried about it because all AI can do is take everything that's

been done before and amalgamate it and kick out a new version of something that's been done before and amalgamate it and kind of kick out a new version of something that's been done before. Granted, that's what our, you know, that's what humankind is. But at the same time, humans come up with ideas based on their experiences that aren't necessarily something that an AI would learn because unless they're, you know, unless you're feeding, they're scraping data out of, you know, people's biographies and stuff, which I'm sure they are, every day, every moment in our lives gives us a new situation that maybe somebody

hasn't been through before, because it's an individual to us. And so I think that's where all good writing and storytelling comes from, is personal stories that come from unique situations that people have been through. And speaking of unique situations, I just mentioned this in passing, we were speaking the day after six women went up in a spaceship, courtesy of Jeff Bezos.

They were up there for about 11 minutes. When they came out and it landed, I thought, this is a Paul Figfeild. His bridesmaids in space, exactly. Did that occur to you at any stage? It didn't until just now, but I think I got a call from Jeff and locked down the road. I think there's something there. This is, so your movie is Blake Lively, Anna Kendrick, fantastic cast. Allison Janney there for fans of the West Wing and so on.

Anyway, when she's being vindictive and nasty, there's no one to touch it. It's just too much fun. She's too delicious, exactly. When you did Ghostbusters, there's a quote from you, you said, a lot of dudes looking for a fight out there based on some of the online reaction. And it just seems to me as though that has carried on, that there's now more dudes looking for Another fight does that still appear to you? Well? Yeah, there's just Almost going beyond dudes now. There's a lot of people looking for a fight

You know people get it's funny people get really nasty online about stuff But then you know you have to realize it's funny the more you talk to people who are you know in the arts and out there Making stuff that people are consuming in pop culture, the more you realize everybody has haters. Everybody. The nicest people in the world have people that hate them online that just send all this bile and you're kind of like, you hit a point where you're like, oh, it's not just me, it's just, I guess there's just people, that's what they do and that's how they get their

power and feel good about themselves. So sure, you know, so I kind of don't, you know, I have to deal with social media because it's a great tool for us. And there's so many nice people, and the majority of people out there are actually very nice. You get nice feedback. And you have to weed through occasionally some terrible person to get to the nice people.

But you also have to go like, look, it's not me. It's like, it feels personal because they're talking about something you've done, but at the same time it's like, I can't be responsible for you. But also you direct movies where women are front and center. Yeah, yeah. Maybe that puts you in their crosshairs.

It only did for that one because I had taken a very male dominated thing and rebooted it that way. So that kind of opened the floodgates for them. I don't tend to get that on the other projects You know that project, you know, they were always gonna be for females So, you know, I mean as far as the characters in it were always gonna be female characters So, you know and for the future I mean obviously people will come to the end of the film and again without spoilers They might be thinking oh well yet another simple thing or a complicated favor. There you go. Exactly a less simple favor

Yeah, I mean, you know, again, I avoided sequels, but this one, I do love these characters, and it felt kind of at the end of like, oh, I see one place this could go. And maybe it's musical. I'm just suggesting. You know what? Never say. Now that you've planted the seed in my head. Okay.

Paul Feig, it's always a pleasure to speak to you. Thank you very much for your time. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. You can, I should have gone into greater detail as to what he was wearing, but he is the only, I mean, all the people who come on, they're all, you know, dressed up because they're doing TV interviews as well as radio and podcast interviews, but no one looks immaculate like Paul. Well, good. I'm, you know, I'm glad he is a sharp dressed man. As you said,

as soon as you said that, all I could think of was ZZ Top. Everyone's crazy about a sharp dressed man. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, there's always lots to talk to him about. I thought when you're listening back to that, he has a nervous laugh, which it sounds like we were on a date on our first date. And I say something and he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. So I'm not sure whether, yes, I'm not quite, it was a stranger, listen back, than I was expecting. But anyway, he's got some interesting stuff to talk about.

We should talk about the movie first of all. Yes. Well, so look, so he made, Pauvig made Bridesmaids, which I loved, Spy with Jason Statham on top form, and that Ghostbusters, which I didn't have a problem with and it was good to hear him say, yeah, that thing about all the haters online. This stars Anna Kendrick, who I loved from Twilight to Pitch Perfect, and Blake Lively, who really wowed me in the shallows and I thought was pretty decent and it ends with us. I know there's been a whole bunch of other stuff about that. I went back to my original review of A Simple Favor, which

I described as a frankly chaotic mashup of conflicting genres. Ditsy romcom, erotic thriller, modern post-mort, old fashioned whodunit. I said in my review of that that the source book, because it's based on a book, was billed as a chilling debut thriller in the mold of Gone Girl and Girl on the Train that Wikipedia called a simple favor, a post noir mystery, and Paul Feig there calls it a Hitchcockian thriller. So, you know, what genre is it? Well, who the hell knows? In the original film, there's tonal shifts. They're all over the place. I mean, it's messy and scrappy, but because the two central performances gel as well as they do, the whole thing holds together. And as I said in my review, this shouldn't work, but somehow against all the odds it does. I think I said in my summary,

is a film was lifted up by its cast, peculiar genuinely all over the place. I also ended up by saying, I think I enjoyed it because the two leads have got the measure of the material even when I didn't. As you said yourself, it became something of kind of cult favorite during lockdown. This sequel is built as a black comedy mystery set five years after the first movie. As we just heard from that interview, Stephanie is promoting a book about Emily who shows up and invites her to Capri to be made of honor at her wedding despite having previously tried to kill her. So Anna Kendrick, Blake Lively are back alongside Alison Janney, as you said, Elizabeth Perkins, who sometimes steals

a show. And Paul Feig said that he's afraid of sequels, he tends to avoid them. And at times, you said he said that he tried to kill this because he was terrified that it wouldn't work and he loved the first film so much. And then he said he talked about the writing process and he said there was one point where they thought you're going to give up because it wasn't working and there was a lot of stuff being thrown into the mix. They thought they should abandon it, but then the writers, every time they did, the writers would come up with something else, then everybody had an idea, and then this happened. And it's rubbish. I mean, it's absolute rubbish.

It's lightning didn't strike twice. And what's interesting about what's rubbish about it is that going back to my review of the first film, I remember thinking, you know, this is one of these things that shouldn't work and yet somehow it does because of this charming chemistry. And this time it's just like, no, no, this shouldn't work. And it doesn't because it is a bag of stuff thrown at the screen in the most incoherent ramshackle way. It is tonally all over the place.

It isn't funny. It isn't tense. It isn't sexy, quirky, interesting. Now, I don't take any pleasure in saying this, but one of the things with this film is it literally just consists of a bunch of completely unbelievable things happening. And then the character's going, oh, well, that just happened. You know, ironic wink. None of it makes any sense. Glamorous travelogue footage. I mean, oh, well, that just happened. You know, ironic wink. None of it makes any sense. Glamorous travelogue footage. I mean, yeah, you know, Capri, hey, looks pretty.

Ludicrously contrived and uninteresting thriller plot. And then characters going, well, that just happened. And here's the really brilliant thing about that interview. You say in the middle of it, and this had never occurred to me, you said, you know, it could have been a musical. And I thought, Simon Mayo, you are a genius. It should have been a musical. Paul Feig said this thing about, yeah, but when you go into the musical things, you know, the musical sequence, it will take you out of the reality of the stakes. You know, there's no stakes. There's no reality. I never thought any of

this was real. But being a musical might have made the out there part of it acceptable because the point about breaking into song is it becomes a fantasia. I mean, heaven knows they're dressed for a musical. I mean, it's all costumes and set pieces and, you know, and that hat that she wears at one point that's like the, you know, the size of the rings of whichever planet it is. And so, but so, and in fact, and once you said that, I thought that is so insightful. It is like watching a musical that never sings, a musical that never breaks into song. It just lies there and you keep going, yeah, go on, do the thing that the would be the only thing that would exist.

And what was really fascinating was, I mean, I think it's genuinely awful. I think it's, it's a massive waste of talent and resources. And I'm not saying any of that because I like so many of the people involved in it, but it's just, it never ever has any idea what it should be tonally. And the reason is when Paul Feig said that thing about, yeah, but you know, if you broke into song, it would take you out of the tension of the Hitchcockian thriller. I thought, you have no idea what you've made. You literally have no idea what you've made. I don't think I've ever said this in all the time that we've been together on this show. You could have made a better film. You should have been in that meeting and said,

guys, this is a musical, whether you like it or not. Yes. If you can make a musical about the end of the world, as we've discussed in the last couple of weeks, you can certainly make a musical. That hat, by the way, which is an almost laugh out loud moment, should tie with Willem Dafoe's pipe in Nosferatu as being a kind of what? Can we just pause it? I just need to see the size of that thing. Anyway, no, I have no intention of seeing it again, but Paul Feige is an interesting guy. Yes, I'm not saying he's not.

It's just that the film isn't. Yeah, it's rubbish, isn't it? I'm afraid it is. I'm afraid it is. And that's all that there is to it. And they're clearly thinking franchise because it's set up at the end for another one. Yeah, I don't think this is coming back. I hope it's not coming back. Or if it does, it had better be a musical or they'll have to answer. I think he's wrong about AI, by the way. I increasingly think people who say yes, but there's nothing original. It's just, I think we're going to be having a different... It's much more worrying than that. Yeah I think we're going to be having a different...

It's much more worrying than that. Yeah. I actually asked ChatGBT whether it had scraped any of my books. Oh, did you? Yeah. And it took a long time before it answered and it basically gave me, you know, we only use things that are legally entitled and it's publicly available. And then it said, why are you asking? And I said, because I wrote them. And it went, wow, cool. I didn't learn anything. It is going to take over the world. And as Mark is laughing already, this is a perfect opportunity to step into the laughter lift and to make that cough rattle away.

Yes, please. Hey, Mark. Hey, Simon. Bad news, I'm afraid. Oh dear. I misheard a request from the Good Lady's ceramicist who endorsed this weekend and accidentally passed her a Pritt stick instead of her lipstick. She's still not talking to me.

She was, she was angry. Do you know what she, do you know what I like to do when she's angry? No. Wrap her in a cape. Then she's super angry. Yay! I've got a, got a great security tip for you Mark. If you change all your passwords to the word Kenny then you'll never forget one again because

all you have are Kenny Loggins. Oh I say Kenny Loggins for the first time. For younger listeners, Kenny Loggins is a singer-songwriter most well known for Foot Loose and Danger Zone from the second half of the last century and Featured quite regularly on greatest hits radio. Yes Anyway What we're doing in the next is I sorry that was the very definition of a damp squib ending

Is that the end of the laughter lift? Loggins joke no, okay. No, no, it was the rule of three. I did three lift? Is it another Kenny Loggins joke? No, no, no, it was the rule of three. I did three gangs and finished on the Kenny Loggins. Okay, great. What's coming next? Thunderbolts asterisk. Is it Thunderbolts and Lightfoot? No, it's Thunderbolts asterisk. After this. and earn three times the points at grocery stores and restaurants, as well as on gas, EV charging, daily transit, streaming services, digital gaming, and more. All. The. Time. Get the RBC ION Plus Visa.

Conditions apply. Visit rbc.com slash ION cards. The new BMO VI Porter MasterCard is your ticket to more. More perks. More points. More points. More flights. More of all the things you want in a travel rewards card. And then some. Get your ticket to more with the new BMO VI Porter MasterCard.

And get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months. Terms and conditions apply. Visit bmo.com slash the iPorter to learn more. If you'd like to get in touch with the show, it's correspondence at covidomeo.com. If you'd like to become one of our wonderful subscribers, you get to miss the ads. Plus, you get another wonderful podcast which lands alongside this one. But everybody gets the review of this film because everyone has heard about Thunderbolts. Or Thunderbolts asterisk. There is an asterisk.

Why? Well, I saw, I think it was, was it Jimmy? Some chat show host interviewing the cast and said, you know, what's the thing about the asterisk? And they said, oh, well, you have to see the film to explain that. And bear in mind, I no longer know what is a plot spoiler in terms of these things. This is apparently the 36th installment in the Marvel Cinematic Universe and apparently the final phase five film. And the asterisk thing is explained, but I can't, you know, but apparently it's a plot spoiler, although it's fine. So the Avengers are no more. Instead we have a rag.

There can't be anything. A punctuation mark can't be a spoiler. I'm just telling you, I mean, you know what it's like. It is explained why they are. Let me do the review and then we'll come back to it. Okay. All right. Yeah. So the Avengers are no more. Now we have a rag tag group of misfits who were basically sent to kill each other, but who instead gang together to become Thunderbolts asterisk. The tagline, not super, not heroes, not giving up.

So anti-heroes. Now, when I think of anti-superhero movies, I think of Kick-Ass and Super and Chronicle, all of which I liked in different ways. Now, I haven't read the comic strip source material for Thunderbolts, although I'm assured that it is largely unrelated. Though I've seen all the MCU films, I haven't kept on top of the spin-offs on television. I've seen some of them, but I've films, I haven't kept on top of the spin-offs on television. I've seen some of them, but I've lost track of who is alive and who is dead in the MCU. I can't remember how we got here or why we got here. That's fine. So what I'll tell you instead is, so you have Florence Pugh as Yelena Belova, the assassin trained in the Red Room, I think, who we meet in a

very impressive opening sequence in which she, actually Florence Pugh, jumps off the second tallest building in the world. She does a Tom Cruise. One, I saw it in IMAX, incidentally. One of the issues with that now is that VFX have become so good. I saw it happen and then it was only because I knew nothing about the film in advance,

nothing about it, didn't read anything about it in advance. And afterwards somebody said, you know, that actually was Florence Pugh actually jumping off that building. I said, was it? Oh God, I just assumed that it was done in post. No, she jumps off the world's tallest building, but it's a parachute thing. She's depressed. She's depressed about her life and her job. And there's a very good sequence in which we hear her talking about how drudgy her job is whilst we see her from an overhead shot beating all these guys up. That's a shot which kind of reminded me

from that corridor scene from Oldboy. And I very much like Florence Pugh. And she's got this very kind of good dour way of saying, oh yeah, I've got to do this, and with drudgery of life. She wants a change of pace. She is promised a public facing role by Julie Louis-Dreyfus's Valentina Allegra de Fontaine, who is in the process of being impeached for doing unauthorized stuff or something. Anyway, she needs to clean

house, so she tells Elena to go to this secret base where she meets a whole bunch of other people, all of whom have basically been sent to kill each other. So you've got Wyatt Russell's John Walker, who's time still Captain America. Hannah John came in as Ghost, who was in Ant-Man and the Wasp, which I didn't care for at all. Olga Kirilenko as Taskmaster. Then there's Lewis Pullman as Bob, who is this naive amnesiac who's got no idea why he's there. Also in the mix, there's David Harbers Alexi, who is very funny. Also, in the mix, there's David Harbers Alexi, who is very funny. He's the dad figure who's like the red guard. He gets all the best lines. Sebastian Stan's Bucky Barnes, so kind of former Winter Soldier. Sebastian Stan, obviously most recently was playing Donald Trump in The Apprentice and apparently went straight from doing Trump in The Apprentice to doing

this. And then Geraldine Vespa- one I think was Valentina's assistant. Anyway, here's a clip. Oh, nice to see you, Ava. Elena, you look awful. You sure you're really ready for that public facing role, will you ask me about? It's Valentina. Where's Bob? Look at you. You are all so adorable. Just think, I send you down there to kill each other and instead you make nice and you form a team. Who is this old Santa? I'm Lexi Shostakov. The Red Guardian. What? And there's a lot of that.

It's funny because we were just talking about another simple flavor, that something happens and people go, well, that just happened or what? So there's a lot of that kind of dialogue in this. Something preposterous happens and then someone goes, what? Sorry, who? Or what's the thing with the buzzy thing? Or, you know, what do you think of that helmet that you have to wear? You like the helmet? I don't know. You like the helmet? Well, I don't know.

If you like the helmet, then there's a lot of self-reflexive wisecrackery going on. That is actually the film's strongest suit because it's directed by Jake Schreier, whose feature CV includes a film I love, Robot and Frank, which is normally a science fiction film about robots being used for elder care, but actually it's this very charming, bittersweet comedy about aging and loneliness. It's no surprise that the best thing about Thunderbolts is that stuff and the stuff with Florence Pugh being wry about loneliness and depression and all that sort of stuff. As for the rest of the film, it's an oddly dour experience.

A significant part of the first act basically takes place in a dungeon. And then there's a whole thing about the third act in which there is this creeping shadow darkness that's doing bad stuff. But the whole tone of the film, it's not just that it's dark, it's washed out to the point of being underlit.

I saw this in IMAXX and on more than one occasion, I took my glasses off to make sure I wasn't wearing sunglasses. You know, I've got that pair of blue glasses with them. Yeah. I thought, this looks really underlit and I'm in an IMAX screening room and this should look brighter than this surely. Now, it may well be just entirely an aesthetic decision, but it's a boggy looking movie. It's not so much crepuscular, it's just a bit dim. Now, I confess that I am, like so many people,

I'm suffering from battle fatigue with the Marvel Cinematic Universe because I've lost interest in keeping up. I don't actually care about any of it anymore. And I did for a while, but I don't anymore. But that said, Florence Pugh is really good. And it's really great to see the trajectory of her career from the falling, which was like 10 years ago, whatever it was. And then, you know, Lady Macbeth, and now this.

I mean, she's a proper movie star. And when you watch somebody on an iMac screen, they have to be a proper movie star to carry off because i'm a screen is a massive screen and she's great i mean she's you know she does she does micro emotions and she's funny and down and she's got a really kind of dead pan and she's a great action hero as i said me more so as we know now from the fact that that's actually her doing that stunt. Beyond that, the mechanics of the plot and the putting things in there. I stayed, of course, for the bit at the end of all the credits when there's a thing which throws forward to the next thing and then connects up with lots of other things that I don't care about. That's partly generational because partly I suppose there is an audience that are completely engaged in this. And as you'll know from the responses, because we're recording this on Wednesday and I suppose the reviews broke yesterday and there's been lots of people saying, you know, it's the best MCU outing in a long time. Well, that's

not saying much because the MCU has become fantastically moribund. And so I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the interaction between the characters, but it is one joke, which is that they're in a crazy world, but they go, oh yeah, how's that going? Is that suit uncomfortable? What material is your suit made out of? And then yes, there is some stuff about, you know, darkness and depression and being an outsider and all that thing, but it's,

the weirdest thing was how murky it looked. The weirdest thing was how massively underlit it looked. I know that there are times that that makes sense. I was thinking when they're going to emerge from the dungeon bunker thing that suddenly it's all going to get very bright, but it never did. Then towards the end of it, when it gets into the fighty fighty, the baddy baddy, I just thought I don't care

anymore. It was two hours long and I kind of was fine for about 85 minutes. Then the last half an hour, I didn't really care. But Florence Pugh is terrific and the best stuff is the gripey stuff between the characters. But I can't be alone in thinking, I actually don't care about this world anymore. And it would take something rather more than this to get me interested again. It's one of the better ones that I've seen, but I still approached it and left it with a heavy heart. Is the asterisk then terms and conditions apply? No, the asterisk is because they're the Thunderbolts who are going to become, and you go, yeah, Thunderbirds. They're Thunderbirds.

The Thunderbirds. That's what it is. They're going to go to Thunderbird Island. The Thunderbirds. And Brady Corbett is going to direct the next one. Excellent. There you go. Because they want, they need a Tracy to direct it and that's what they need. So yay for Florence Pugh. Nay for everything else. Well, I mean, no, you know, like I said, there are individual things in it that

are funny. David Harbour is funny. Hey, if you were okay for 85 minutes, that's pretty good. I would say. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I was okay for 85 minutes. Before we're done, an email from, well, I'm imagining these initials are WA, but it could be someone called WAAA. This emergency mail is indeed an emergency mail.

We have a missing wittertainee situation. When using the old iWitter app, which doesn't work anymore, I was always impressed to see that the map was always showed one Wittertainee, a Battenberg I believe, on the inaccessible island in the lake in Plattefields Park, Fallowfield. No doubt familiar to Mark from his time at university. On the new app, the island is uninhabited. Either this person has now left the island, which seems impossible because it is, as mentioned, inaccessible, or something terrible has happened. Can this year's cruise stop off at the island to check? The cruise does, after all, have a long history of visiting places that most boats would struggle to get to, which is a good idea.

This is iwitter.com because the app is back and you can see listeners to this podcast all around the world, but I haven't checked Plattfields Park, Fallafield. If anyone knows who that was or how they got off or indeed whether something terrible happened. I think it was a duck. I don't think it's a person. I think it's a duck. A duck listener? I think a duck with an iPhone. Really? Well, probably he was subscribed by Jason Isaacs. Or maybe somebody lobbed their iPhone onto the island and it's only just run out of power.

Maybe that's what it is. Anyway, if anyone else can explain it, correspondence at Kermit and Mayo.com. Thank you very much for listening. As the end of take one, this has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team was Jen, Eric, Jem and Josh. The producer was Heather, the redactor was Simon Paul. And if you're not following the pod already, please do so wherever you get your podcasts. Mark, what is your film of the week? Far and away, the best film being released in UK cinemas this week is the 50th anniversary re-release of Slade in Flame, the Citizen Kane of British pop movies. Take two has landed adjacent to take one. Thank you for listening, we'll see you next time.