Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Are the Minions master movie makers? + Edward Norton & Olivia Wilde on THE INVITE

Episode Date: July 2, 2026

The Take is now on Patreon: www.patreon.com/kermodeandmayo Become a Vanguardista or an Ultra Vanguardista to get video episodes of Take Two every week, plus member-only chat rooms, polls and submissions to influence the show, behind-the-scenes photos and videos, the monthly Redactor’s Roundup newsletter, and access to a new fortnightly LIVE show—a raucous, unfiltered lunchtime special with the Good Doctors, new features, and live chat so you can heckle, vote, and have your questions read out in real time. Pffft. Bottom. Yes, it’s Minions movie week. Directed by last week’s guest Pierre Coffin, this latest instalment sees the little yellow fellas take on filmmaking. But will Mark’s love for the franchise endure? On a much more adult note, our guests this week are Edward Norton and Olivia Wilde, who star in (and in Wilde’s case direct) searing and sexy dark comedy The Invite. It follows Jaded couple Angela (Wilde) and Joe (Seth Rogen), whose marital troubles are thrown into relief by a visit from their fruity neighbours Pena (Penelope Cruz) and Hawk (Norton). Simon sits down with them to talk compersion, catastrophe, and colour coordination. Plus, internet sensation turned big screen effort Nirvanna The Band The Show The Movie, and finally a Supergirl review too. Don’t miss another top Take! As promised, here’s the ticket link for the special K&M live show in Bristol:  https://www.fane.co.uk/kermode-and-mayo-s-2026-tickets/bristol-beacon-hall/2026-12-06-19-00   You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo. EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Timecodes: 00:10:56 Nirvanna the Band the Show the Movie review 00:22:18 Box Office top ten 00:29:32 Supergirl review 00:43:58 ad break 00:45:32 Edward Norton & Olivia Wilde interview 00:57:38 The Invite review 01:09:57 Laughter Lift 01:13:05 Ad break 01:17:10 Minions and Monsters Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello? Hello, Simon Mayo. It's Mark Kermode. Password. Sorry? State the password. What password? Exactly what an imposter would say. Simon, it's Mark. We host a podcast together.

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in the description. Hello, Simon Mayo. Hello, Mark. I see your lovely new bookshelves haven't buckled yet. There's a particularly weighty and wise-looking one by an M. Kermode on there too. True, but getting them up nearly buckled me. Even giving up and hiring someone was a full-time job. You should have used TaskRabbit. It's an online marketplace available in the UK that connects you with skilled, reliable local freelancers called Taskers who can help with everything from furniture assembly and home repairs to moving, gardening and more. You can search for a Tasker based on cost, skill set, availability

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Or with the Taskrabbit app. That's taskrabbit.com.uk code take. Terms and conditions apply. Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguard Easter and get an extra episode every Thursday. Including bonus reviews. Extra viewing suggestions. Viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas.

Plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in questions, Schmestians. You can get all that extra stuff via Apple Podcasts or head to extra takes.com for non-fruit-related devices. There's never been a better time to become a Vanguard Easter. Free offer, now available, wherever you

get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter, we salute you. I think the appropriate place to start this particular recording is for you to explain your T-shirt, which you've only changed into like merely seconds ago off-camera,

which is, you know, disappointing for, obviously. It's a relief. Yeah. Yeah. It says, made in 1963. This apparently mean that it's your birthday. Yeah. So today that we're recording this is Wednesday,

but tomorrow, which is the day that it would go live or whatever it is, although I actually un-send the video, doesn't go live until Friday. So that probably isn't, yes, I'm 51 again. I'm 60. What am I? I'm 63. I'm made in 60.

It's baffling because you always say a different age. Yes. So what do you actually? Well, I was born in 63 and this birthday I am 63. So I have actually been 60. This birthday today, tomorrow, yesterday if you're watching the video, is actually my 63 birthday. So it's that weird thing about I was born in 63 and I am 63.

You're not rounding it up like normal. No, no, that's what I'm saying. I mean, the remark, every time I say on the radio, I'm 63, I get an annoyed text from Dave Norris saying, you're not 63, you're 62, because he and I are the same age. But now I am 63, and so I was born in 63, and I am 63. And all of this is a long way around leading up the garden path so that you can wish me happy birthday. Well, I wish you a happy birthday. And I wish you happy birthday with this wisdom, which I only saw this morning, which is online from a bloke called the old grey thinker. Okay.

Yes. At 30, you have energy but limited perspective. At 50, you have skill but limited time. At 67, or 63, if you want. Your brain has built roads between seemingly unrelated things. Music informs your gardening. Literature shapes how you cook. This is the neurological advantage nobody mentions.

We're not fading. We're finally seeing the full picture. There we go. And can I also very quickly give you the full picture on my experience last week with KLM Airways? You were in Croatia. I was in Croatia. I was in Croatia. It was the, yeah, the Pontilopo-Pood Film Festival.

And we watched the Croatian match live. We watched the Croatian match live with the – Well, the one in which they played Ghana and they won. Was there another one since then? No, they played England before that. No, no, no, but the one in which they won, who won? In which there was a whole thing about there was a goal, and then they were, you know, sure whether it was offside,

and then everyone was intense, but it was outdoor screening of it, and they were going nuts, they were going absolutely nuts. And for the first time I kind of got sent to, oh, I can see how this might be quite fun, to be in a crowd of people when your team, that team, at that point being Croatia, because I think at the same time, England were playing somebody else.

Right, they couldn't be playing the same teams, that's true. No, not the same team, but they were playing somebody else. Yes. Oh, I see, that was a fine. Okay, I don't understand football. Have we gone through? What's happened? Well, at the time of which we are recording, the day before your birthday,

yes. Today, England playing the Democratic Republic of Congo, D.R.C. And so by the time that we'll either been beaten, embarrassingly, by D.R. Congo, or will have gone through Triumph. Okay. All right. Well, I don't know what's happening except for that I was in a, I was in Croatia when they were playing another team and they won. And everyone went mad. But I was in Croatia. And I flew to and from Croatia on KLM airlines, who are, apparently you said the oldest airline in the world. That's right. Yeah. And so the experience of it was this. Flying out, changed to Amsterdam. They lost their backs. So we arrived in London. they'd lost the bags. And they were in lowput. And then they found the bags and then they sent the bags to us just in time for us to get the flight back via Amsterdam where they lost the bags a second time. So they still don't have the bags. And on the morning of the way back, when we arrived at the airport four o'clock in the morning, they said, ah, well, we've overbooked the plane, so you can't fly on it. And then I explained to them in no uncertain terms that I was going to fly on it. What did you actually say? What was your strategy here?

Flattered them with kindness? That's right. I flattered them with kindness. But I did point out that I might, it would have been better off flying with KLF. Yeah. And catching the last train to transcendental. Exactly.

Or driving an ice cream van across the thing. But yeah, no, literally to lose the bags on the way out and then lose them on the way back. And we still don't have them back, have no idea where they are. obviously on a tour of the world at the moment. It's time to kick out the jams, Melan Farmers. Melan Farmers, that's what you should have said.

Exactly. I famously played the wrong version of that on Radio 1. Oh, no, did you? Yeah. You played the MC5 uncensored. Yeah, it was KLF with the MC5 bit. And because right at the very beginning, it says, time to kick out the jams.

And then it's on the radio version that the next bit is reversed. So it's all perfectly fine. And then I played one without it reversed. And then the head of music rang up, rang into the studio and said, take it off, take it off. There's another one coming. There's another one. No, no, no, no.

I don't think. Oh, there was. Yes. Okay, I'll take it off. I'll take it off now. So we had a couple of melon farmers. Yeah. Well, find my bags.

Melan farmers would have been a... Anyway, you're very welcome to the show, everybody. Mark later, once in his youth, will be getting excited about these films. Yes, so we have reviews of Nirvana, the band, the show, The Movie. Minions and Monsters, you will have heard Simon's interview with Pierre Coffin last week. In the chart rundown, we have the delayed review of Supergirl, because as you know, they didn't screen that until Tuesday night,

which point KLM were in the process of losing my bags. And the invite with our very special guests. Yeah, two of the start. of that film Edward Norton and Olivia Wilde. She's also directed the movie and a bonus review in take too, Mark, I think. There is a 50th anniversary reissue of Taxi Driver and this will mean something particularly to you because when we, in a previous incarnation of this show, we did a show from Salford with a whole orchestra doing movie music and we played the theme from Taxi Driver as part of that concert and it was one of the highlights of the show.

That's right. We didn't say we played. Well, we didn't play. No, I was observing. Yes. Robert Ziegler conducted and the orchestra played the instruments, but we sat there and stroked our chins and went, well done. Yeah. I remember that show for all the good reasons because it was fantastic. And what a, you know, what a thrill to do a show with a live orchestra.

I particularly remember going on air. Was that 2 o'clock or something? Yeah, yeah, 2 o'clock in the afternoon. And within two minutes, the whole orchestra got up and left. Where's hell are they going? And it was their break. It was time for a break. Tea break.

And it was a unionized thing. And it was like, well, hang on, we just started the show. Could you not have gone beforehand? But anyway, no, they had their regimented breaks and so off they went. The other thing that I discovered at that show that I hadn't known before is that the way an orchestra applaud is that they stamped their feet. Do you remember this? And they don't. Violinist and cellists, don't they sort of tap their.

bow against their instrument. Well, I just remember the sound of that because at that show, I played the chromatic harmonica on the theme for Midnight Cowboy, and I'm not a very good chromatic harmonica play, but I got away with it. And at the end of it, they very kindly,

I mean, maybe ironically, did the stampy feet thing. And I thought, what are they walking out? You know, and they said, no, no, that's how they applaud. How do they applaud sarcastically? Yeah, I think there was definitely, it was sarcastic foot something in the same way. If you're holding an instrument that costs maybe hundreds of thousands of pounds, you're not going to just put it down to clap, are you?

You're going to do something else. What can you do? You can stamp your feet. That's fine. And very Slade-esque. Don't forget you can get Take 2 ad-free by heading to our Patreon page. Just search Kermud and Mayo Patreon and we'll pop right up like the MIRCAT Kings of subscription-based world-class film podcasting.

And we have a special announcement regarding Christmas spectacular. and this year it's not in that there, London. Yes, people of Bristol. We're going to be at the Bristol Beacon on December the 6th. Tickets go on sale today, Thursday, July 2nd because that's what everyone is thinking of. Mark's birthday.

It's Mark's birthday. Buy yourself a present, but the idea of buying things for Christmas before you've gone on summer holidays seems incredible. But obviously, there are huge advantages and you can do it via the link in the show notes. Yeah, so if you're in Bristol

or Bath or Devises or, or Castle Carey or Cardiff Or Stroud Or Frum or Sirensester Trowbridge Cheltenham, Glastonbury Swindon, Newport Gloucester Cumbren, Western Super Mayor

Tetbury All of which are an hour or less From Bristol Then get your tickets now Green Camel Nelsworth Clevedon, Chepstow Diddleink

Gorsdy Nol The Pluds Cat Brain Okay thanks We get it You can stop now The Shoe Nimp-T-Throbwell

board drip, wookie hole, balls green, cockadilly, tomtits bottom and twatly. So you can't say the team slacked off on the research this week. So yes, to recap. I think I drew the short straw in that particular thing, don't you?

It's a Christmas special with me and him on Sunday, December 6th at the Bristol Beacon. Honestly, it's not even that far from London, so London people you can come along to. It's not far from Cardiff or Birmingham or Lowest off to Aberdeen or Belfast either. It's actually only a few.

miles drive from Cornwall as well. It's just up the road. So we'll see you. Up the way. So here we go. We're doing some Christmas planning already. You can do your Christmas shopping on the Saturday and a little bit on Sunday morning, get a pastry and then come along and see us.

All the details follow the link. Anyway, let's talk about a film that's out that we might want to see. So, Nirvana, with two ends, the band, the show, the movie. Are you aware of any of this at all? I haven't seen the film. No, no, but you're not you, okay, so, because this is basically the film adaptation of a TV series that was itself the spin-off of a web series. So it's a Canadian comedy directed by Matt Johnson, written by Johnson and Jay McCarrill. Johnson co-wrote and directed BlackBerry from a couple of years ago for which McCarroll did the music.

And as I said, it's based on this long-running thing they've done, Nirvana the band. and indeed the film blends new footage shot for the film with old footage archived from the extensive back catalogue. The film actually opens with what is apparently the very, very first scene of the series. I have to say I'm coming to most of this new because I didn't know this until after having seen the film and then going back and researching it. So other people will know more. So it is an absurdist mockumentary or Spinal Tapie,

rockumentary, if you will, with an anarchic, self-reflexive, cinematic edge. story focuses around Matt and Jay, who for a long time have played these fictionalized versions of themselves as wannabe pop stars trying to book a gig at a venue for which they have no real set, no real songs, no real plan, no manager, and apparently not a huge amount of talent. So it is best described, to me, having not been familiar with the web series or the TV series, as a kind of rough and ready jackass inflected sketch comedy car crash in which Bill and Ted, now being played by Sasha Baron Cohen and Nathan Fielder, decided to accidentally remake Back to the Future by jumping off a tower and skydiving to stardom

via a time-traveling jaunt through a preview screening of The Hangover from a previous age. So it opens with a very Bill and Ted argument. You remember how there's the argument in Bill and Ted is. right at the beginning of Bill and Ted, in which one of them starts saying that wild stallions cannot make it big until they have a triumphant video. And in order for them to have a triumphant video, they have to have Eddie Van Halen on guitar. And then the other one says, well, we can't get Eddie Van Halen on guitar because we haven't got a triumphant video. So here are two middle-aged heroes, Nirvana, the band. They're trying to get a gig at the

Riveley Club. And one of them suddenly says, Matt says, I've got a plan. There's flyers. That's what you need. Flyers. Flyers is the thing that you do. And then the other one says, yeah, but you have to have a gig before you can put up flyers. You know, no, no, you put up flyers and that's how you get a gig. And then all this is captured on kind of handheld guerrilla style handheld cameras. And there's a lot of fourth wall breaking because the people who are holding the cameras sometimes get brought into the drama. Then Matt, the genius, says, I've got it. I know what we have to do. In order to become, in order to get the gig at the Rivley, we have to go up the CN Tower and jump off it and sky dive into the sky dome, which is a sports arena where the Blue Jays are going to be

playing. And we can do that because you can go up the tower and then there's a walkway thing that you can do, but they strap you on and then we just cut the things and then we jump off and then we parachute down. So they now go to a hardware store in preparation for the jump. I hope this is making more sense to you than it did to me. Here is a clip. So we are going to be up on the CN Tower in one of the, on the edgewalk where we're wearing the safe, I think they put a safety vest on you, and we need something that can like cut through the rope

or the cable on it. Do you know what I mean? You can, but here's the thing, you would shock yourself because if you cut through live wire, you'll get electric, oh, I'm not cutting through electric, I'm not cutting through fabric, I'm not cutting through a live wire. What happens if we're not even allowed in the security

with these? You will be actually caught. I'm gonna say that I need these for. I'm sorry? Drywall compound, 243. But I think that... You know what? Like, I don't know.

Just be careful, man. Like, I seriously don't think it's worth it. Right. Okay. But? I mean... But? You have the freedom to do this.

I'm a libertarian. You have the liberty to do it out over the one. Right. But that is, I believe, as a sane person, I should prevent you guys from doing... So there's that kind of thing about, obviously, that person doesn't know that person doesn't know that they're involved in a dramatic sketch and they're saying, yeah, I don't think you should go up the top of a tower and throw yourself off it. I mean, obviously, as a libertarian, I believe you have the right to do it, but I don't think so. And there's a lot of that kind of interacting with the

public, which seems to be real. Anyway, so when that stunt doesn't work, then they decide to build a DeLorean-style time machine, which is fueled by a long defunct novelty drink called Orbitz, which apparently is a very funny joke if you're Canadian, to go back in time, in order to change history to get the gig at the Rivoli. And, you know, one thing leads to another and turns out that the time machine does work, and then they find themselves back in a previous incarnation of the world with potentially disastrous butterfly effect-style consequences. So look, it is a very odd movie, particularly for me, if you hadn't seen the web series, you haven't seen the TV series, you had no idea what was going on at all.

because do you remember Trigger Happy TV when there was the whole thing about, you remember that? And I enjoyed bits of Trigger Happy TV very, very much. I did always think... Dom Jolly, of course. Dom Jolly. Hello, Dom Jolly, who's a listener.

And the stuff with the animals beating each other, you know, people dressed as animals having comedy fights in parks. I always thought it was absolutely hilarious. I never knew quite why I found it so hilarious, but I thought it was. So at first, I have to admit, I just couldn't quite make out what was going on.

And when they do the CN Tower bit, I mean, for a start, one thing is, I'm terrified of heights. So there's a whole thing in my point of view going on, which is I'm terrified of heights. The second thing is the way in which they're trying to get into the tower, getting through security, whilst apparently smuggling parachutes under their clothes. And you're thinking, this can't be real. The security can't actually be letting them through with clearly parachutes smuggled. So there's a certain amount for me at the beginning of what on earth is going on,

followed by a, I really, really don't like heights. And then all the way through, there are these kind of actually rather well done, slight of hand, deceptions between, you know, what's real and what's staged. And there's a whole thing in which, you know, with Back to the Future, they're kind of riffing on Back to the Future and the Lightning Strike and stuff that has to be, and you're looking at it going, sorry, how much of this do the people around know what's going on? How much of this are the people in on the joke? How much of this is the joke that they're not?

not in on the joke, you know, because at one point, it looks like they're organizing a terrorist operation, and then everyone is sort of just looking at them like something weird but just a bit odd is going on. And then the lines between fiction and reality are further blurred by the fact that apparently some of the stuff from later on in the movie, there is news fudges that is actually news fudges, that is repurposed from something else that was going on. So what to make of the result. So as someone... That does sound like quite hard work. Well, here's an interesting thing, and I'm sure that part of this is an age thing. Okay. So from a filmmaking point of view, it is, I have to say, a kind of a really seamless mix of the artifice and the reportage to the point that I was genuinely confused about what was going on. Plus, it has a spectacular set piece in it at the beginning that really gave me the collie wobbles in a way that was like, whoa, I, I'm a, I, I, I, I, I'm genuinely unsettled by this.

However, for people who are familiar with the series, you know, all this is fine, this is part of the course. This is just like, okay, it's a movie, it's gone bigger, and therefore, you know, the stunts are greater, but the central thing is the relationship between these two central characters, which is kind of the heart of it. I have to say, I personally found myself too distracted by the, sorry, what's the status of this, what's going on to actually,

enjoy the comedy. And it's a really weird thing to say, and I know I say quite often, I've got a tin ear for comedy. But I also think that what I've got an anxiety about is, sorry, hang on, what, what is, where are we? Are they involved in it? Are they not involved in it? Do they know what's going on? Do they not know what's going on? And so from a filmmaking point of view, I mean, it is really audacious. And it's like, and I know I have a couple of younger friends who are very familiar with the series and very familiar with the TV show who just thought this was the funniest thing they'd seen and incredibly audacious, which it is. I felt a little bit as you seem to be feeling from my description, which is it's slightly hard work. I mean, I'm of the generation. I love

Bill and Ted, and they clearly love Bill and Ted, but I kind of found myself tolerating Matt and Jay as opposed to loving them. And I think that the thing is, if you're already invested in the characters, if you're already familiar with the format, if you're already on board, I think, you think, okay, well, this is terrific, it's doing all the stuff that we want it to do. If, like me, you're going in stone cold because you're a person who's just turned 63. Thanks very much. I found it harder to enjoy than I would have done. And the other thing is, I found their characters really great. I love Bill and Ted. I absolutely love Bill and Ted. And I would quite happily spend a week in the company of Bill and Ted. After a couple of hours in the company of Matt and Jay, I thought,

okay, that's well done. And I'm going to go and stand over here now. But they pronounce it Nirvana all the way through, even though it's written Nirvana for obvious reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's a, and that apparently is the kind of the longest standing of the jokes is the confusion about Nirvana, the band. Yes, exactly. I never really got to the bottom of that. But then to be honest with you, I'm not sure that I needed to. I mean, presumably it's copyright. Because if you say Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie, and it hasn't got Nirvana in it?

Then you're in trouble, aren't you? No, but they're not. They're saying Nirvana. I mean, honestly, to be honest with you, now that you're bringing it up, it never even occurred to me that there was a pronunciation thing. But it is N-I-R-V-A-N-N-A, the band. Yeah.

Okay. Which, I would say Nevada. But anyway, there you go. Okay, so it is for something. Then you say Indiana. Absolutely. Indiana wants me. That's, I mean, that's the way most people, I think, say, if they actually come from.

Except in the song, it's Indiana wants me. Yeah. What a strange song that was. What a strange song that was. Okay, so we're going to take some ads. And after the break, Minions and Monsters. And also, the invite our special guests will be Ed Norton and Olivia Wilde. In just a moment.

Yeah, Mark, you remember that? top secret business idea I had last year. What you mean, credit flicks, the streaming service that only shows end credits. I've told you before. No, no, no, it's not that. Anyway, I'm not telling you now, people are listening. Suffice to say, I'm ready to go to the market. Well, in that case, you're going to need Shopify.

If you've been sitting on a business idea, Shopify makes it easy to bring it to life. Everything you need to start selling is included and ready from day one. Go on. Well, it's simple for both you and the customer. From the moment your first one is ready to pay, Shopify checkout helps more of them finish their purchase and when they come back their details are already saved one tap and they're done. Well, that would be a weight off my mind. I could focus on growing the business. I could be ready to float on the stock market in a couple of years. That's the spirit. Because Shopify handles

the setup and checkout, you have more time to focus on growing your business and the tools to do it. With Shopify, nothing stands between your idea and a real business, so go make it one. Start your free trial at Shopify.com.com.com. slash take. Start your free trial at shopify.com.ukuk slash take. We finally got her. Oh my God, he got her. For years, a deranged man in Wichita, known as the poet, stalked Ruth Finley. He sent her letters, gifts, and poems. The Wichita police put everything they had into Ruth's case, but got nowhere. The poet was always two steps in front of us, and we just didn't know why. And the city was already living in fear under the watch of another monster who called himself BTK.

And he also had a thing for poetry. Could we really have two different people? But no one could have guessed how this would end. That's one of those Hitchcock endings that we did not expect. From Sony Music Entertainment and New Metric Media, this is the poet. I'm Rachel Brown. The poet is available now on The Binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcast to start listening today.

Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes, all at once, add free. Okay, here we go with the box office top ten. At number 10, A Private Life. Which I enjoyed, and it's La Vie Privae. Jodie Foster, like I said, it's an odd movie. It has been referred to by some critics as Hitchcockian, although I think that is kind of just a word that they fall back on. But I enjoyed it, and it does demonstrate that Jody Foster can be brilliant in more than one language,

which of course is no surprise to anybody. Dockley UK on our YouTube channel, which this week passed 100 million views. 100 million? I saw the film last December in France and found it entertaining, although I felt the plot was rather thin. I also seem to remember the ending,

feeling a little abrupt. Jodie Foster, who could do no wrong, whether performing in English or French, and Daniel O'Toi are both superb. Their chemistry is exceptional, and I'd love to see them share the screen again very soon. Very good. So that's Private Life at 10.

Number nine is Michael. It's still in the 10. In America, it's 12. 52 million so far taken here, which is just astonishing. I mean, a perfectly well-made one half of the story. Where's the rest of it? Backrooms is at number eight, number six in America. So fifth week in the chart's done very well.

I thought it was creepy and interesting. We'd had some very, very good emails about the way in which people are interpreting it, which just, I think, go to show that interesting films bear nethered. numerous interpretations. Whatever you want to bring to it, it will, you know, it will support. Number seven here, number eight over there. Bleach, thousand year blood war, the calamity. There's a colon after bleach, a hyphen after thousand, and a hyphen after war.

Lots of punctuation. So this wasn't press screened. This is a spinoff of the manga series. It's apparently the plot synopsis says, Ishigar and allies must reclaim the fallen palace to stop total ruin as the thousand-year blood war peaks. Haven't seen it. If you have, let us know. Number six is scary movie. And moving on. Number five is obsession. Which is terrific. This is the seventh week in the charts. Obsession costs absolutely nothing. It's taken 16 million. It's really interesting. It's got

great horror performances. Like all the best horror movies, it's really about something. And again, we've had numerous interpretations of what it's about. And I think it's, I think it's really exciting. I think it's really, really exciting that this and backrooms are both in the top ten, in which they're holding their own against very expensive movies. Number four here and there, excuse me, Chris Walker, aged 45. Long-term listener, first-time email, I'm a huge fan of you both, but an even bigger fan of Jackass, which puts us right down and again. Having been watching them for most of my adult life, I'm fairly certain that come the closing credits, I'm off to see it on Tuesday, I'll be welling up. It's precisely the shameless and

unadulterated affection and love for their friends that has made jackass a hit for 25 years or more. Shameful, as some of their behaviour undoubtedly is in a world where men still struggle to open up emotionally, their genuine love and loyalty should be applauded. I understand it's not everyone's cup of tea, but sometimes the derision aimed at them seems a little condescending and haughty. Anyway, love you both. Chris Walker. Well, might I say I did not aim any condescending or haughty derision against the film? I actually said of all of them, it was my favourite. And the thing that I was surprised by is how much it was in the end about male friendship.

And the analogy that I used was that if Project Hail Mary asks, can men be friends? And the answer is yes, but only if the future of humanity is at stake. Jackass asks, can men be friends? And the answer is yes, but only if they can insert toy cars. where the sun don't shine. A funny thing happened with this, which was that the good lady professor, her indoors, listened to the show whilst driving between Cornwall and somewhere else.

And she came back in and she was chuckling. And I said, what are you chuckling about? She said, Simon Mayo does this thing which really makes me laugh. He was like, okay, what is that? She said, in the middle of your jackass review, you described the film. And there was a pause. And Simon Mayer went, oh dear. She said, when he does that,

It's very, very funny. I didn't know it was something. I didn't know it was a thing that I did. Apparently it's a thing that you do, and it's a thing that makes the good lady professor her indoors laugh very much because I said, and then they do this and then they do that, and then they insert this there, and then they put that with a sudden,

and there was a brief pause, and you went, oh dear. Well, I'm still thinking, you know, I'm on air, you know, because there are the reactions, which will be less important. Okay, I'll lock your chart. Okay, there we go. So Jack has number four. Number three is Disclosure Day. Here's an email from,

Mr. Jocelyn Evans. Okay. And I was thinking, I hadn't come across a bloke called Jocelyn, so I just looked it up. It was a rich, Jocelyn is originally a male name from an old Germanic word meaning member of the Goths. Of the Goths? Of the Goths. So Jocelyn is a goth, basically. Wow.

Wow. Dear Hansel and Gretel, having dropped child number one at a college taster day in Manchester, and having a few hours free, I decided to take. in a surprisingly well-attended morning showing of Disclosure Day. I'm not sure which I found weirder. There's a 54-year-old man rummaging around in his backpack for a packet of fruit gums to revive me after the umptewearying chase scene, only to hear Colin Firth gently calling my name from the screen.

I think he was about to chide me for eating sweets before lunchtime, but then he got distracted by his dead wife, so I ate the fruitgums anyway. Also, that an alien in civilization with the USP, Empathy, a Superpower, collectively settled on dressing up as the cast of Bambi to abduct and operate on frightened children in their spaceship disguised as the original, if gingerbreaddy, cabin in the woods. Given their main procedure appeared to be some type of retinal scan, might I suggest future empathetic incursions consider infiltrating a bunch of speck-savers for the afternoon?

And listen, don't then keep turning up for years afterwards, gauping through the windows at your victims. Anyway, keep up the good work. Down with something or other, I think it was orange, but my memory's gone. after a staring contest with a squirrel. Mr. Jocelyn Evans, B-A-P-H-D, also doctor, that causes confusion, used to be a professor. Yes, I did that too, but now level two, England athletics official. Jocelyn sounds though he's had a wild and crazy life. Yeah, either that, or he's a complete fantasist. Yes, he appears to have lived several lifetimes. That's astonishing all those things. I feel like I haven't done enough.

There's nothing wrong with eating sweets before lunchtime, I think, if needed. Because sometimes you need a sugar rush and fruit gums, very good. Fruit pastels, also jelly tarts, that kind of thing. You should always have them handy. So disclosure date number three, anything else to say there? We've got more in Overflow Car Park. Yeah, there's more in the Overflow Car Park. And I think let's save further discussion for then.

I think it's great that we're getting so much mail about Disclosure Day. I think that's really exciting. Number two is Supergirl. Okay, so as we said last week, the Supergirl press screening was Tuesday evening. The way that national press shows work is that films are open on Friday, get screened for the critics on the daytime of Monday and Tuesday. If they feel that they don't screen something until as late as possible, there's usually two things, either because it's a massive event movie,

like No Time to Die or, you know, something like that. And they're trying to kind of keep everything secret until the last possible moment. Or it's because they don't have a lot of faith in it. Now, I have no idea what the thinking was with warners for not screening SuperGy. I did say to them, look, you know, there should be a national press show, and they said, yeah, but there isn't. This is the only one. However, I'm now looking at the variety headline, which says,

Supergirl braces for a hundred million dollar loss, what DC studios should learn from its box office bomb. So that's, it's number two, obviously, but it has underperformed. Anyway, latest DC offering part, apparently of DCU's Chapter 1, Gods and Monster series. I say that as if it means anything to me. It doesn't. Directed by Craig Gillespie, written by Anne Negreira, starring Millie O'Cock as Supergirl,

which is a role that we previously saw her showcase in last year's Superman. If you remember, I reviewed that. I mean, it's funny. Despite the fact it was only last year, I have very little memory of watching that film, but I asked the internet what I thought of it, and apparently I said it was a resolutely good-natured throwback, which is fine. So I'm going to do a brief review now since I didn't get to do it last week. It is Carrazo-El's 23rd birthday.

She has been on a sort of planet hopping pub crawl as far as we can tell. Her cousin, Superman wants her to spend more time on Earth, but she is clearly on the run from her responsibilities. Here's a clip from the trailer. Hey, I was just touching base to see when you think you might be coming back. You know, I'm just worried that you're not going to find your stride here if you keep going off world all the time, Cara. I'm worried you're not going to find your people. Yeah, well, that's the thing, Clark.

I have no people. Oh, miss wherever you are, buddy. Crypto and I at least had each other. Honestly, I thought we're really. were lucky. But look, almost by definition, run down. So kind of mumblecore superheroes with pop music. So, and then Matthias Skornat's evil and evilly accented,

crem of the yellow hills, poisons crypto. And then she has to go on a mission to find him and get the antidote to save crypto. So it's basically John Wick in as much as it's all about. the dog. And it's also a bit Hancock. Do you remember Hancock, the film in which Will Smith was sort of the, you know, was a superhero, but was now a derelict and, you know, just wanted to drop out. Anyway, along for the ride is Ruthie, by Babe Ridley, whose family Krem has killed, but who Kara wants to save from falling prey to vengeance. So I went to see it to Eastley just yesterday.

Yeah, yesterday. Well, day before yesterday, if you're listening to this on Thursday. I thought, I mean, it was a weekday screening at 6 o'clock. There was about 17 or 18 people in the audience. It's a weirdly overcluttered mishmash of plot and design ideas. I mean, it's sort of the design is like the dystopia of Blade Runner and Mad Max, but very, very messy. And then take all of that and then throw it into the mozies. Cantina because essentially it's a sort of Star Wars, Star Wars creatures from around the galaxy

and then just shaking all those things up and seeing if any of them catch far. And the narrative and the plot are all over the place. None of the individual set pieces connect with any of the other individual set pieces. I mean, like the sets, the whole thing feels really, really overcluttered and underpowered. Jason Momoa seems to be having fun. I wish I was having as much fun as he was. The directing and the editing are really drearily frenetic. And it's kind of that weird thing as if the film is desperately trying to seem exciting

by just jumping around all over the place, whilst actually being kind of very, very, very staid. There are endless needle drops. There's a bit in which there's a wet leg needle drop. And I actually really like wet leg. And I, you know, I love catch these fists. But it just seemed very self-conscious. None of it was organic.

And one of the things it reminded me of, I mean, people forget this. Do you remember we're seeing the original Twilight? I do. The original Twilight had really, really good needle drops that actually kind of made you think this is a film with a genuine teen sensibility. And this didn't ever feel like that. The other thing that bothered me about it, and this is very much old man shouts at clouds, it's a 12A certificate movie, and it is 12A for partly moderate use of bad language. okay. The

word that isn't quite shoot that I still consider to be to be a cuss word and we don't use it on the show, but apparently in 12A now there is no longer any restriction on shoot. And it's just everywhere. I mean, it's just constant, constant, constant

stuff happens and then someone just goes, shoot, and then something happens, and then they go, shoot, and then something else happens, and somebody goes, shoot, and then something else happens, and somebody goes, shoot, and you go, for heaven's sake. I mean, this is like you've just got shift, alt, insert, shoot, every other. And I mean, at one point I started counting them and I just gave up. And then I realized I'm actually counting the number of times that you use this word. That means that the film really isn't

working for me. The BBFC guidance says moderate use of bad language, mild actually no actually I can't even read those words out it's yes no I can't a moderate use of bad language look it up I can't read any of those on the show as for

Melale O'clock I thought she was actually pretty good and I wish that she had a better film to be good in because I thought at the center of it there's an interesting idea which is Supergirl the way that she plays Supergirl as this sort of dissolute character who's separated from everything and disenfranchised from everything and doesn't really want to engage with anything other than her dog

and then finding out that she doesn't, there is something in there. But the rest of the movie is just, it's like somebody just overturned a dustbin of ideas onto the screen and went there, you sort it out. And it doesn't surprise me, therefore that it hasn't done well. Moreover, it doesn't surprise me that they didn't want to screen it earlier than they did because I have the suspicion that they didn't want to screen it because it's all very well to do. First responses to Supergirl are great. People who went to the premiere came out saying things like, I enjoyed it. Yeah, that's always the case. We all know that the first response is things and are not good. And it's not good.

On the emails here, Susan in Reading, the movie felt like a mixture of true grit, the Princess Bride and Star Wars, which made for a fun adventure. Okay. Kara's backstory was done really well. The fight scenes were exciting and the dog was absolutely adorable. The fight scenes... Sorry, just pause one second. The fight scenes I found were not exciting because the CG was really shonky.

Sorry, carry on. And the dog was absolutely adorable. Jason Momoa was perfect in his role. You could tell he was enjoying every moment he was on screen. I also really enjoyed Kara's character arc. The ending sets up, well, looks like she will be teeming up with Superman. and joining the fight with the next big villain. Overall, I had a great time and can't wait to see where the story goes next.

Great. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I am genuinely glad you enjoyed it. I wish that I had. Brian Roberts in Chessington. Going to the cinema with my younger daughter is quite a teary time as we're both in the habit of crying during films, which led to people asking us whether we were okay because we looked so upset when exiting the cinema after watching If.

I imagine this is the John Krasinski If from 2024. less about the six laugh test and more about the three cry test most of the time. On that basis, there were times of cinema-induced lacrimosity during Supergirl, mainly because of the multiple times of trauma-informed decisions in Kara's past, as well as with her companions. And whilst it wasn't as good as Superman, I found the time watching Kara's story to be heartwarming and emotional and well-worth the effort of getting out to the cinema.

I don't know the background of the production and whether there was any trouble in terms of rewrites or reshoots, but we both very much enjoyed the product. Keep safe and cool, and down with the bad and up with the good. Ed in Romsey, I went into Supergirl cautiously optimistic after quite liking James Gunn's Superman last year, and also wanting to support it after the predictable online backlash to Millie O'Cock's casting, who has apparently committed the unforgivable sin of not being Sidney-Sweeney. I came out, headachey and irritated. It feels like Craig Gillisbee trying to make a gun-style film without quite pulling it off.

There are colourful characters and decent performances. Alcock and Jason Mum are both good, but they never really land. The visuals are oddly muddy, the villain forgettable, and the jukebox soundtrack lacks guns knack for the perfect needle drop. This was my first cinema trip in a while, as I've been home post-op with my dog. So thanks to Simon for the Does the Dog Die tip. For gamers, there's a lovely equivalent, can you pet the dog? Apparently, that's in inverted commas.

Down with all of that and up with all of the other. Anyway, love the show, Steve. Ed in Romsey for Supergirl. Well, I mean, I'm very much on the same page as Ed from Romsey. However, I am pleased to hear the two previous emailers had gone and enjoyed it. In the screening that I was in in Eastley, there was a line of people just immediately ahead of me, pretty much half boys, half girls,

they're about 14, 15, sort of, you know, slightly gothy looking. And as they came out, they seemed to have thought it was all right. One of them was pointing out that it was exactly the same story as something else. And they were having a kind of, you know, but they didn't seem to have hated it,

but they didn't seem to have loved it either. At least that was, to my eye, that's what it looked like. That's at number two. Toy Story 5 is number one here and number one in America as well. Nick Reed from Massum. Long-term listener, occasional emailer, proud sneaker of a hello to Jason Isaacs onto Only Connect. After hearing Mark's review, we went to Toy Story mainly for completism and a bit of shade. Because that was a very good reason for going to the cinema in the recent heat wave. But leaving a sold-out screening full of laughing, misty-eyed.

families, we both said, what film did Mark see? There's plenty of plot, but it all comes together neatly. The army of buzzes, the gadgets, Jesse's abandonment issues, Woody with Bo Peep, and Duke Kaboom's return. It's also refreshing to have a toy story centered on female characters without being didactic. John Cusack is a standout in a top form cast, and Bullseye is a perfect sidekick. Sorry, Joan Cusack, obviously. The magic is absolutely still there, alongside Pixar's usual care and technical brilliance, especially the gorgeous, funny pastel imagination sequences. We laughed and cried one moment hitting at least an eight on the Toy Story 3, parents sobbing scale.

The message is that children's challenges are timeless, even if the toys change. Not as good as Toy Story 3, few things are, but still superior Pixar. I'd happily watch just one more and another after that. Tickety-tonk, down with bullies, cyber and otherwise from Nick Reed. Okay. Well, again, I'm really glad that you enjoyed it, and I'm really glad that you got that out of it. And I'm sort of jealous that I didn't. It is worth saying, once again, that all criticism is subjective.

And surprisingly enough, even though I didn't like Toy Story 5 at all, I think the fact that it's filling cinemas out and people are going to see it and having positive responses to it is a positive thing. I don't like the movie. I think it felt very artificial and lacking in the moments that you found in it. But that's as much to do with what I really need from Toy Story. Because Toy Story has been a big part of my life. And it's been a big part of Simon and Mye's relationship on air. And so maybe I just have higher expectations for it. And also, it is possible that if you go and see a film after you've heard bad things about,

it, it's easier to see the good things in it. This is why people always say, oh, you know, you ruined the movie for me by, you didn't say this, but other people say, you ruined the movie for me by being down on it. Weirdly enough, sometimes going in having been told that something isn't any good. I mean, I went to see Supergirl really hoping that it was going to be really good because I'd heard slightly sniffy things about it, and then I was disappointed. So, correspondence at Kodomo.com, if you've seen any of those that just want to get in touch to the program, there'll be more discussion on current films, including Supergirl and Jackass and Toy Story 5 in the Overflow Carpark in Take 2, available via patron, special guests, Ed Norton and Olivia Wilde in just a moment.

So our guests this week are Edward Norton and Olivia Wilde. Olivia, as you know, actor, director, producer, screenwork includes House, Tron Legacy and Booksmart. Of course, the acclaimed coming-of-age comedy that marked her directorial debut. Ed Norton, wow. What's to say, three-time Oscar nominee, known for Primal Fear, American History X, although I still try and forget that. And, of course, famously Fight Club, and one of the most consistently acclaimed actors of his generation. You can hear our conversation with them after this clip from The Invite. Hi.

Hi, come in. Nice to see you. We are so happier here. Are we expecting people? Can we put curtains on this window? I don't like how they can see it to our apartment. This shirt, it's nice. It looks really good on you.

Well, you could tell me that once in a while. Take them off? I don't give a fuck if you take your shoes off. For me, no gluten, no dairy, no meat, no sugar. There's something I'll be wanting to talk to you about? We also have something we wanted to talk to you. about that is a clip from the invite i'm delighted to say being joined by two of its stars ed norton and olivia wilder who also directs the movie olivia and ed hello how are you great thank you

so thank you very much indeed for your time i really appreciate it olivia you're the director movie as well as well as one of its stars introduce us to the invite what do we need to know sure okay the invite is a um a comedy a dark comedy maybe ish darkish no funny a funny comedy about uh a dinner party gone terribly wrong or terribly right, depending on your perspective. And it's about a couple, Joe and Angela, played by Seth Rogen and myself, who are hosting our upstairs neighbors, played by Penelope Cruz and Edward Norton. And it is a social experience fraught with a large amount of tension and conflict and hilarity, we hope. Okay. And what kind of, explain who Angela is, what kind of a person is she?

Angela is a very tightly wound spring. She is someone who has put so much significance on this one evening during which the movie takes place that it is sort of existentially necessary for her to pull this night off in order to, in her mind, um, in her mind, um, Press. Yeah, stay alive, really. She needs to impress them in order to stay alive. She's desperate to feel that she and her husband, Joe, can have one normal night that they could potentially make friends and be normal. And it seems impossible for them. Okay. So, Ed, you're part of the raunchy couple upstairs. Introduces to Hawk. What kind of guy is he? He's a bit of an enigma. I think he seems, I don't want to give him. I don't want to give him.

too much away. I think that you, I think by design, you don't really know what this couple from upstairs is after. I think that, I think he's someone who presents, presents one way and who we're going to learn a lot about as the course of the evening goes on in ways. That's a very endicratic answer. Yes, well, there are, you know, there are a lot of the pleasures of this film are the unexpected twists in what you learn about the collision of these two couples. And I think that's the ride, you know, the, yeah, I do think the less you know, the better. I think this isn't a film full of what I would call trickery. it's a lot of it there's a lot of humanity in it and um i think the pleasures of it for people are

are actually seeing themselves seeing their own foibles and their own you know aspirations and unsaid unsaid inner lives unspoken inner lives um reflected and revealed okay since ed is being slightly enigmatic may i say two things first i think it absolutely is a dark comedy i mean it is funny, but it is absolutely very, very dark. The second thing is, obviously, this, it's based on a film which itself was adapted from a play, a Spanish film, a Spanish play, people upstairs.

How close, if at all, is this to the source material? It's very different from the source material, but I think at its core, what it maintains is the question, can two people who have been together for a long time still maintain a sense of intimacy, and that can be interpreted in different ways. And how do people survive within relationship?

You know, that is something that I think is... Yeah, and if they've lost something, can it be recovered? Can it be recovered. But we approach it in a very different way than the original. And it is also something that's been adapted into other languages and other cultures. but this version is very specific to this group of actors' interpretation of that question about relationships. But it is very different. And the dedication to Diane Keaton, I mean, it seemed to me that this was a film from, in my experience, a different era.

There was a period that I remember in which it was possible to make adult comedies, comedies dealing with grown-up themes, which were quite complex, often French movies, dealing with bourgeois anxiety. And that was funny. And this does seem to be of that generation of filmmaking. Yes, that was the intention. And we all grew up being so inspired by those movies and the experience of watching them in theaters.

And so that's what we wanted to create for people, absolutely. I'm looking at the picture of you guys in the hotel. And you seem to be as color coordinated as you are in the movie. This is accidental. We were just joking about that. I'm horrified. We both made a monochromatic bet and I live one. I don't know how I did this so perfectly accidentally, but I am blending in with the

room. Can you even see her pants? Can you even see her? And the blends in with the walls of the house and I blend the walls of the house. The curtains, the tiles, the light stand behind you, the chairs that you're sitting on. It all works perfectly. And the really, the reason I mention that is that there is a scene that. that you guys have together where clearly a lot of work has gone into the design of this

apartment, which looks amazing. And you've got three different types of blue on the wall, okay? And Ed, because your character is in tune with this kind of thing, is fascinated by the interior decor. And Olivia, your character is saying, but you know, which one? And then I'm thinking to myself, but they all look the same. And that's exactly what Seth Rowe, you say, that's what my my husband thinks they all look the same. So I felt very seen at that moment. Oh, good. Yes.

I too felt seen because that was based on a conversation with our brilliant production designer, Jade Healy, who was asking me to choose the color for the apartment of the set and kept following me around with these three paint swatches. And I said, but, Jay, they're all the same color. And she's like, oh, no, you must be colorblind. And so we put that in the film. But I think the fact that Hawk and Angela Bond over that really says everything.

because he understands how different those shades are. And that was one of my favorite scenes in the film. Can I do a shout out also for your sound team? Yes. Because there is a lot of overlapping dialogue. Yes. In this film. Well observed.

Well observed. Where you're all talking at the same time, and yet we can hear what everybody is saying. So whoever it was is incredible. Steve Morrow. He is the best. And that was my, my dream was to be able to have everyone overlap.

I said, can we try for a Robert Altman effect where people can just speak over each other? No one will ever be asked to hold a line in order for another person to speak. And he said, absolutely, have at it. And it just really involves a very difficult process of live mixing and holding each person's mic in a way that allows them to be isolated.

And I never had any trouble in post with all of that. And I just, I'm so lucky that we had Steve on board. And is that where your rehearsal period actually worked a lot? Because it feels as though you're improvising. Is that true, Ed? I would say there was probably more improvisation in this film than any I've done out of 50 films I've done.

I think I've never been involved in anything that, where the director said, these are the basic, these are the basic foundation. things that probably need to happen in the scene, but let's just go riff it. Olivia and I walking through the apartment taking the tour and the paint swatches is an emblematic example because most, I don't think any of that was scripted really. We and definitely has one of my favorite lines of Olivia's in the whole film like, you know, seeking renovation without change. And I think, so yes, lots and lots of improvisation, I think, Seth is, Seth is one of the funniest one-liner machines that any of us know. And Penelope is a brilliant, she'll get immersed in a thing and come out with stuff like smoking the joint and saying, I can't or I'll start, stop counting things.

It was great fun in that sense. But then I think there was another layer that was interesting, which was Olivia kind of, she asked each of us to hold on to having almost like secrets that we could bring out on each other. So quasi-scripted, but only by each of us, but we were allowed to bring them into the scene. and get authentic reactions off of each other. The thing I would kind of say overall is that Olivia created for the four of us a very singular experience in the sense of a space in which we could operate in which there was nothing wrong that we could do. She was prepared with her team to capture very beautifully anything that happened with.

within the space. So we had this enormous physical liberation within the space, which is unusual. And then I think an incredible, not just allowance for, but enthusiasm for discovery and uncertainty about where things were going, which is anathema to most directors.

I think most people want to exert control to shape and sculpt in the core of actually performing, and Olivia did the opposite. She really, she almost, you know, she did things that almost, I think, felt reckless to me in the sense of saying, I don't actually know where this movie is going to end. I don't know what the final scene of the movie is going to be, and we won't know until a couple weeks into shooting, which there were people around the perimeter having heart attacks, but she didn't. She remained very cool.

Would you say Ed and Olivia, this is to both of you, if anyone says to you, would you like a tour of the apartment, you should always say no. Oh, no, I think you say yes. You should always say yes. Absolutely. I love a tour of an apartment. Okay. Well, Ed and Olivia, thank you very much, Adi, for talking to us. Also, thank you for putting a big title sequence at the beginning of a movie the way it felt entirely appropriate.

it and Ed also the last time you were on was to talk about motherless Brooklyn and the music from that movie is still whenever I'm feeling exhausted I listen to daily battles both the Tom York version and the winter masala version and I feel better so thank you so much wow thank you for your time Olivia thank for your time Ed Norton and Olivia wilde who starred in this movie with Seth Rogen Penelope Cruz I realized that had mentioned Penelope Cruz probably when we were doing the questions. So this is a fascinating film. It's like you were saying, Mark,

it feels very old. On the one hand, it feels very progressive because of this is certainly, whether it's dark comedy or not, it's an adult comedy. Yes. This is not a date movie, I would suggest.

But it does, it's a forehander. It's an old-fashioned stage play turned into a movie. It is. So just a bit of sort of nuts and bolts background. So it is technically, it's an adaptation of a 2020 Spanish comedy, People Upstairs by Just Gay. The original is about a bickering couple who invite the couple upstairs for dinner, having heard them, having very loud fun times.

And that film began life as a stage play, which makes sense because forehand are taking place in an apartment. Of course, it makes sense that comes from a stage place. So this is adapted by Will McCormick and Rushdie Jones of the screenwriters. The project was originally developed in 2021 for Jonathan Dayton, Valerie Farris, who are the people that made Little Miss Sunshine and Battle of the Sexes. Now, you remember that you and I very much like Battle of the Sexes. And at that point, it was going to start Amy Adams, Paul Rudd and Tessa Thompson.

That production stalled. Then it was relaunched with Olivia Wilde directing and co-starring with Ed Norton, Pelopi Cruz, just said Seth Rogen. Of course, Seth Rogen and Olivia Wilde worked together before. there's that episode of the studio. Remember the episode of the studio in which she's the runaway director who steals the can of film from her own movie because she wants to get the scene reshot?

So, as was probably apparently, it was funny when Ed Norton said he didn't want to say anything about what the plot's about. Well, you have to have a certain amount. I mean, essentially, we meet Angela, who is Olivia's character in her apartment, awaiting the arrival of Joe, played by Seth Rogen, who is now this worker slug with a bad back

who seems to hate his life, hates his bike, hates his lot. He used to be in a band who had a hit at some point. Now he's a disillusioned drone who won't even go anywhere near his keyboard. And they've got this scratchy relationship. She tells him to take his shoes off. He complains that she does nothing but buy rugs

and redecorate the apartment all the time. She berates him for not remembering the fact that the people upstairs are coming down to see the apartment, to see all the renovations that they've been doing for all this time. And he snapped back that she never told him. that they were coming. And then she says, I did tell you and you've forgotten to bring the wine.

And then he tells her that if I gave, if they are going to come, I'm going to have the conversation with them about all the noise that they make up. She says, please don't do that. And they're in the middle of the argument when the doorbell rings bing bing bong. And there are Hawke, played by Ed Norton and being played by Penelope Cruz. And they seem very nice, if a bit touchy fee lee. And he compliments her decor decisions, the rug, the interior design. You were mentioning the thing about the, you know, the three shades of blue. And the, This proves very annoying to Joe. Meanwhile, it turns out that Pina, the woman of the couple, is a therapist.

And then we get to discover how they met each other, how they met each other through therapy. And in fact, the kind of life that they are now living, which is completely the opposite, like absolutely the opposite of the life that the first couple that we met are living. So, because I said before, there is the invocation of Diane Keaton. And it is, in my opinion, the sort of grown up, when you say adult, meaning grown up, rather than adult meaning porn, which thank, you know, thank you America for meaning of taking the word adult and turning it into something else. Comedy that flourished in the 70s, largely atrophied later on, which is, you know, a movie about relationships, both emotional and physical. I mean, it is interesting that it seems to have taken a remake of a Spanish film to give America this kind of material. I thought the whole thing was excruciating in a very good way.

It reminded me at times of the tone of, there's a play called God of Carnage, which a play that I really, really liked by Yasmino Reza. And that was then filmed as Carnage, and the film of Carnage was terrible. But the play of God of Carnage, which I saw was really good. And it's that thing about, it's the bourgeois satire, about people stuck together, they're in a place and attempting to maintain an appearance of normality whilst everything around them is falling apart. And whilst their inner demons are sort of rising up before you, but all under the kind

of cloak of a polite engagement. Oh, a dinner party. Dinner party, what could possibly go wrong? Oh, I don't need me. I don't need that. I don't need this. And you not make a lot of noise upstairs. And you seem to be arguing with each other quite a lot.

And you've got a weird relationship. And there's one point in which Seth Rogue, I think, pretty everyone delivers the line. Oh, F off, Hawk. And I think it's pretty much the only point in the thing which the kind of the open hostility suddenly rears its head. The performances are very good. I mean, Seth Rogen and Olivia Wilde as the bickering malcontents who have forgotten why they were once in love

are really, really, you get that sense of, they've just grown weary of each other. Meanwhile, the Ed Norton and Penelope Cruz characters are these sort of smug free spirits whose smiling openness actually hide something. Because again, there's a moment where Ed Norton's character is really passive, aggressive. He constantly, no, you know, everything's, yeah, that's very open.

I admire your truthfulness. And at one point he gets on, stop interrupt. You know, you're always doing that. You're always correcting me. You're always correcting me. And at times, I was kind of, at times I was almost kind of burying my face in my hands because that thing about that, the comedy of anxiety, the comedy of the facade of normality collapsing is very,

I find it both compelling and very, very difficult. But I thought it had real energy to it. And what worked was, and this is what I particularly agree with Ed Norton about not really going further into the plot is that each new revelation happens with a degree of balance that it's not like suddenly a huge, ridiculous leap. It's as you discover the things about these couples,

they're all discovered sort of just by scratching away at the surface. And I think Ed Norton is particularly good at being particularly slimy. I think Seth Rogen is very, very good at being convincingly frustrated. I think that Olivia Wilde's character looks like she is one cracked smile away from completely blowing her top. And I think that Penelope Cruz in this kind of very funny, very interesting. imperious way is like the only character who appears to be in control of her surroundings until the moment that she isn't. And I do think that any film in this day and age, particularly

an American film, that addresses any kind of grown-up adult subject matter in a way that needs to be sort of embraced. And it's interesting that the bidding war that this provoked after it was first played was won by A-24. And that kind of makes sense because they've kind of carved the niche in horror and surrealism and, you know, and that area. I mean, I enjoyed it very much. I'm very interested to know what you thought of it because you're on my taste in excruciating comedy. It's slightly different. Yeah. Well, it was excruciating, but I did enjoy it. And just on the, Olivia Wilde's choices to where it ends up, she was absolutely emphatic that this is a cinematic

release and she said no to the streamers. So in that sense, again, it's traditional, I mentioned just at the end of the interview about there was a title sequence at the beginning, like it always used to be. Now films just start and you get the titles at the end. But I thought one of the strengths was that each of the four characters, and there are only four characters apart from an orchestra that you see briefly at the beginning, is sort of intriguing and almost worth a movie. You know, how did you end up like this?

they're three-dimensional characters. It's not that there's two and then there's a slightly kind of sketchy couple. And there's some weird stuff, and I mean this in a good way, which is clearly deliberate. First of all, it's very strange they don't have any wine at all.

One of the things Seth Rogen has failed to do is to bring the wine, that was his job. But they also don't appear to have any wine glasses. And they can, oh, this is, there's something strange going here. And the ending is splendidly, enigmatic and you'll talk about the ending. Okay, do you feel that's hopeful?

Do you feel depressed? I don't know. What do you think? So I thought there was some very intriguing things and it's laugh out loud funny and it is not a date movie. No, but it's also funny because you mentioned the thing about at the beginning, there's the orchestra, okay? And I've almost completely forgotten

that it actually begins with Seth Rogen's character you know, he's meant to be commenting on a performance of a piece and he's just, and he's just, he's not listening. And the orchestra performed this piece. And they looked him and he goes, yeah, yeah, just do it again. And then he goes off and he gets on his bike.

And by the time he gets home, I've almost completely forgotten that his job actually does involve doing something of any musical involvement at all, because he's so paranoid about ever, you know, the whole thing about he won't play the keyboard anymore. And he won't play the keyboard because his dream of being a pop star didn't happen. And so when I refer that thing about a workish love, he does seem to be somebody. He's just stuck in a job that he's not interested in anymore.

He's not, he hasn't got any, he's got no, although he's still working in music. You know, he's still working in music. Music is still his love. Music was his first love and it will be his last, but he's just treating it like an office job. Yeah? Yeah. And then it becomes the forehand play, which we were talking about. But so I think it's going to be

I don't know what awards it might win but I think it's going to be a huge hit because it is it's laugh out loud funny four big movie stars and I'd forgotten how funny Ed Norton could be so I thought it was a big hit really. I think Ed Norton is very, very funny. I mean I think Ed Norton is hilarious in Fight Club

but I think Ed Norton has got absolutely brilliant comic timing you know. And I, yeah, I do like that. I do like the idea that his character who seems to be so kind of, you know, yeah, no, yeah, you know, you're being honest. You're like honesty. He's as annoying as he is. Don't watch it with your kids.

Don't watch it with your parents. Watch it with some friends, I would think. And so this is an enigmatic question, Mark. Did you feel encouraged at the end? Well, there's a question at the end that just before we did the interview, we were raising about, I mean, obviously, one of the things that the drama has to do is it has to find a way of concluding. And I think the conclusion, my own feeling, I'm without giving this away,

my own feeling was that in the course of the drama, everything had gone to pieces and I'm not sure that I buy the finale finale but then you know maybe that's just because I was

I can't imagine coming out of an evening like that and ever looking anyone in the face again I think Seth Rogen's character thinks one thing and Olivia World's character thinks thinks another thing. That's an, okay, fine. So actually that's right. So the ambivalence is, yeah, the ambivalence is, no, no, it is. And built in and built in. And that's exactly what you're supposed to think. Yeah.

We'd love to know what you think, of course. Correspondence at kerberdameo.com. Child three sent me a message this morning saying, how's the laughter lift looking? Yes. So, and I said, well, it's full, but, you know, I'm, you know, there's always for improvement. So the question is, Mark, how much room for improvement is there? Okay, that's your question that you have to assess. You're the sole arbiter on this. Okay.

So here we go. Play the music. I think this music is great, actually. It's lovely, isn't it? I whistle this sometimes walking down the street. Anyway, yeah. I hope you've been enjoying the Norwegian rowing celebration. Have you at the World Cup?

Have you been enjoying that? Well, I've seen it. I've seen people doing it in the streets. Oh, okay. Well, it's great that Norway threw to the round of 16 by beating Ivory Coast. I'm sure you were watching that on your television. I wasn't. Clearly, that's news to you.

Did you hear the story this week about one of their top fans, O'Lef, the Viking, who was out shopping at a New Jersey supermarket when he comes across a little old lady in a mobility scooter, visibly upset? Whatever is the matter, old American lady, asks Olaf, with typical Norwegian bluntness. Oh, sobs the old lady. I wanted to have a look at the frozen puddings, but as you can see, there are five steps down into the chiller cabinets. No problem, says Olaf, the Viking, lifting her onto his back. I'll take you. Olaf strolled through the chiller cabinets with a little old lady on his back. She picks out several delicious puddings and pops them in the basket he's carrying for her. At the other end, the old lady's husband is waiting with her mobility scooter.

I'd really like to thank you, says the old lady, as Olaf gently places her back. down in the seat, but I've no idea who you are. All I know is that you're here for the World Cup. Olaf just waves and walks off. I was really worried about you, Barbara, says the old lady's husband. What have you been doing? I've been through the desserts on a Norse with no name, says she. Wow. Wow. I mean, again, it works as a written joke because deserts and desserts. One letter apart changes the whole emphasis of the word. But anyway,

top American joke, as in America. Wow. Wow. Well, I mean, I spent a lot of it wondering where it was going to, and then it didn't disappoint. Good. Okay. There was, I mean, the funniest joke about

Halswood No Name by America is, is it Chris Rock? Anyway, some American comedian who basically said, you would think after spending all that time in the desert, you'd have worked out a name for the blessed horse. But anyway. But that was always like Danny Baker's observation about the Thin Lizzie song,

Tonight there's going to be a jail break somewhere in this town. Probably the jail. Yeah, that was Danny who thought of that first. It was, yes. Offed repeated. Anyway, still to come. Still to come.

Minions and monsters. Yes. Right, before we get to minions, An interesting email from Alexis, who sends us this, which looks like a social media post. Okay. From the Capiti Coast Community Page in New Zealand. So we had Leo Woodall on the show talking about Tuna. And we were saying he didn't seem enormously kind of fluent when it came to actually saying much about the film.

Yeah, he found it hard to talk about the role, I think. Yeah. Okay. So the Capiti Coast Community page, Shoreline Cinema, what can I, says, we may be a small out-of-the-way cinema, but you never know who you may be watching a movie with, as so happened last Sunday. Staff served a handsome young man waiting to go into the afternoon session of Tuna. Sitting below the poster, with his face all over it, was none other than Leo Woodall,

the English actor currently on the up and up. When recognised, he explained that he hadn't seen the film since it was completed 18 months ago, respecting his wishes for privacy. We won't publish any pictures, but if you do want to see him, the tuner is at the shawl line is your best bet. And he sat in seat D1 in case you want to do that. That's interesting.

Now, he's currently in New Zealand filming Lord of the Rings, The Hunt for Golan, which is what he did say also in the interview. But maybe he's just, it's a long time ago and he's forgotten. Yes. I mean, we often forget that at the point that we interview people about films, it was two years ago that they made it. And I was just saying in my review of Supergirl that I had to go to the internet to look up what I thought of Superman from last year because it had had so little impact that I couldn't remember at all.

And if you're constantly working, and I suppose if you're an actor, every time you get into the next role, I suppose you have to kind of effectively wipe the memory clean and start again with the next character. So if you're four, five movies down the way and we're saying, you know, what was it? I don't know, maybe you're just and particularly if you haven't seen it because that has happened quite a lot before, hasn't it? You have interviewed actors. It's never happened to directors, obviously,

but interviewed actors who haven't actually seen the finished film. Some people famously don't never want to watch. And I'm... So I've seen the movie and you haven't and you're the star of the film. Yeah. Anyway, just one thing, you might have seen this being a reader of private eye in the bath with a beer, Dave has sent in a little clipping from the current private eye

which has got a photograph of you and a photograph of Pete Hegesith and underneath Pete Hegesith it says Young Kerrmode and underneath you it says a photograph of you for many years ago, Secretary for War and Simon Blake on a letter says did Pete Hegiseth have a rant about the poor quality of sex in the city too when he was presenting the movie review show on Radio 5 Live?

Conversely, did Mark Kermode purge the Pentagon of senior military officials? I think we should be told. So there's a photo. So basically, never mind you being more like Nixon, now you appear to be more like Pete Hankseth. I'm sure you'll be thrilled with that. Wow, Pete Kegsbroth, that's the worst yet. I mean, you know, I used to look like Nixon,

then Michael Gove, now Pete Kegsbreath. Wow. You're going the wrong way, basically. And it actually says young Kermode underneath it, which is by making a big point about I look like that now, but now I look old. What terrible thing. Incidentally, on the subject of Nixon, did you hear the hilarious J.D. Vance thing saying,

yeah, well, you know, if Watergate happened now, it may be a 12-hour news cycle. I mean, you know. And it's like, yeah, we do know. We know exactly what you mean, J.D. Vance, because your government is so corrupt that Watergate literally looks like a 12-hour news cycle in comparison. It's just that when you said it out loud, you didn't say it like that. You said it like it was a good thing that Watergate would have been a 12-hour news cycle. correspondence at cobbinemeyer.com. Thank you very much indeed for all the correspondence coming in.

Meantime, Minions and Monsters. Here we go. Use certificate for very mild comic violence, threat and rude humour. And I'm sorry, but never has a BbFC certificate felt more like a solid endorsement. So Minions creator Pierre Coffin. He's a French animator voice artist, co-director of Despicable Mean Movies and Minions Movies, and he was the guest on the show last week. And you interviewed him. He'd interviewed him. He'd him before. I'm still very jealous because I've never interviewed him. And it was a great interview. And you said, tell me about getting work. This is a work on the project. And he said, well, I made this because I never wanted to make another minions film. And then Chris Melodynoy pitched him the idea.

And the idea that he pitched was minions wanting to make a monster movie. And then summoning a monster which turns against the minions and starts destroying the earth, meaning the minions have to correct their blunder once again. But he had me at minions. wanting to make a movie. And I thought it was lovely firstly to have somebody say, this began by me never wanting to make another Minions movie, and then somebody pictures me idea, and I go, okay, well, that I'll do.

So he said immediately his idea was, well, we set it in Hollywood in the 20s, when, and again, to quote Pierre Coffant from your brilliant interview, when film became an industry, and I could reference people coming over from East Germany and building studios and making films, there was so much context. So the context here is this is the story,

of two minions, Henry and James. And that has to be a Henry James joke, right? Henry and James. You would imagine so. But then. And without whom, Hollywood, as we now know, it would not exist. James is a creative one. He likes to draw.

He likes to tell stories. And ultimately, to make movies. And you suggested that he is basically Pierre Kofin. You said, that's him, is you, right? You like to sit, you like to draw, he likes to tell stories. That's you. And Pierre Kofan said, well, if he is he said, well, he is he said, he is he said, he said, he's I don't know, you know, maybe, but I'm not sure.

Anyway, he finds his Nirvana in Hollywood. Here's a clip. Macarraulte, pap, bye. Wundap. First things first. Who are you? My name is Henry. And James.

And my name is Dick. Ah, and that's the Ed. I'm Peter. Emile Ken. Emile, Alfonso. I see very much. Patrick. He says.

Is there a name I can just call all of you? Minions. Look, minions. My name is Max? Bell of Max. Yeah. Hi. Okay, I'm so sorry about earlier.

So, I would like to work with you. We should make movies. Movies? Movies. I'm sorry, I just want to watch the whole film again. So, Christoph Volts there as movie maker Max, who brings the minions into the studio. And there they encounter a range of colourful characters, including the green,

flappy-faced Gary, Orkham, Oliver, Magma, Iqabod, the deceiver, Gumi to his friends, who then becomes the sort of the portal through which all the other monstrous stuff starts happening. So essentially what you've got is this is a minions movie in which the action centres on early cinema, Chaplin, Keaton, Lloyd, and mid-century science fiction and monster movie riffs and Dady Earth's Still, The Blob. Now, I love The Minions, right? I think we all know that.

I love early cinema, Chaplin, Keaton, Lloyd. I love mid-century, sci-fi, Daveyhurstor still, the blob. Somebody put a post on social media, on Instagram, which said, I've just seen the description of the new Minions movie, Kermode is going to explode. And so it was. Firstly, the level of

Cine literacy in this movie is off the charts. I mean, from the sort of fleeting sight gags about the Lumiers and Meliades, alongside all those kind of the slapstick icons, which is obviously the genre in which the minions have always absolutely excelled. I mean, the minions are, for me,

the modern day incarnation of Keaton and Lloyd and Chaplin in terms of the slapstick humor. And this fantastical science fiction on which I grew up. I mean, I grew up watching sci-fi reruns on television. You know, I loved Star Trek, but I really, really loved old science fiction movies. It was just a roller coaster, absolute roller coaster. You called it, in your conversation with Pierre Kauffalo, you called it a joy-filled 90-minute cinematic experience, which is a great phrase, which I think they should put that on the poster. Simon Mayo, a joy-filled 90-minute cinematic experience.

But you also said, you have to re-watch it, or you felt like you had to re-watch it. So I was not to miss the jokes, right? Yeah, yeah. Two or three times probably to get all of them. Yeah. And I just thought, I want to rewatch it again, not only to get the jokes, but just because I want to laugh at all the jokes. I laughed at the first time because I will laugh at it the second time.

There was a lovely moment in the interview when you and Pierre Kaufan were talking about this. And Kofan said that he was a little worried that it was possible that this film was more of a timepiece. That was a phrase he used to timepiece and the other minions movie. movies and that, quote, children might not get that stuff. And certainly, there are plenty of members of the young audience who will not get that stuff. They won't get, oh, that's a joke about that and that's a joke about that. Doesn't matter at all. Because the slapstick will see them through the gaps in the Cine Literacy. I mean, the reason it works is it's not funny because it's like, oh, that's clever, oh, well done, you know, nod, nod, you know, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. That stuff is all in there.

because it's all in there. But that's not why it's funny. It's funny because it's incredibly funny, because the slapstick is done incredibly well. It just happens to be playing out in a world which has been created by somebody who is clearly in love with the idea of movies and clearly in love with the idea of making a movie

about making a movie. You also pointed out, and I thought this was very funny to cough out, that there's an old science fiction movie called The Blob, in which a blob lands on earth and at one point devours a diner and it eats everything in its way and it was very much a kind of reds under the beds scare movie that the blob has this red glowing thing and it's like only it's communist infiltration. In the centre of this, the big, big, bad thing is a huge

gelatinous orange blob that just devours everything in its way. And you said to Pierre Kaufern, well I mean that's you know that's a joke about and he went what and he said you know a great big and he he had to at least feign the pretense that it never occurred to him he feigned it fained it very well and I imagine he's doing that in every interview it was you know if the if the timely thing that everyone is terrified of in the 1950s of the reds the timely thing that everyone is just horrified by in the whatever we're in now is the oranges even if coffin said cofin said it never occurred to him. But the key thing is, at the center of it is there is this tenderness. In the middle of all the madness, there is this central relationship between these two

misfit minions who are interested in telling stories and drawing funny pictures, and they're more interested in than what minions ought to be interested in, which is finding big bass, big boss, you know, we can find the big boss to follow. And there is something really genuinely charming about, sorry, I keep banging the table, about that central friendship. So, look, I mean, I thought, first, it was a love letter to cinema, and that always makes me happy, because just to see movies made by people who love movies is great. But particularly the cinema of a bygone age, the lessons of which modern movies would do well to learn from. I mean, you can still look at silent cinema, you can still look at early cinema and see storytelling techniques that are

so advanced that nowadays, when you're looking at something like Supergirl, you think you need to go back and watch an old silent film and how the storytelling works and why it is that it's so clear. I laughed like an idiot all the way through. I thought the slapstick jokes were just spectacular. I was really charmed by the Stanley Unwin-esque quality of Minionese. It's funny because you and I were talking about this before we started recording. We're saying that Stanley Unwin, I mean, do you think listeners know who Stanley Unwin is? No, this is where so Mark and I, as you've heard, have done this kind of minion-esque kind of trail, just as a way of getting in the groove. exactly as Pierre Kaufan said last week, you know, you change it electronically and you mess around

with it to end up sounding like Pinky and Perky. But I said that my script felt a bit like I was Stanley Unwin. But I'm almost certain that most people will not understand. Because he was really before my, I mean, it was my parents era, really. But I mean, Google him. He's very funny and he speaks in a very strange, has a particular way of reconstructing a sentence. But one of the things that he may be most famous for is that he's the narrator of Ogden's, and's not gone flake, which is a, you know,

a rock album that obviously you'll be familiar with. And, and he narrates the story of, you know, the,

the, the, the, the, the, the, the, he talks gibberish,

but it's, it's, it's English, but with gibberish. You can understand what he's saying, but it's also kind of nonsense. And that was what he did,

and it was an amazing thing. I think there is a lot of Stanley Unwin in Minionese. And I was, the other thing, I think's really, really important to say is watching this reminded me just how difficult it is to do these things. Firstly, I mean, when we did that little minions thing earlier on, as you said, and it's very,

very hard to get it even close to the genius of what's happening with the minions, because making gibberish sensible is a very, very hard thing to do. And the other thing is slapstick is one of the hardest forms of movie comedy. Physical comedy. Now, you're talking about animation, but animation is as physical as, you know, you're talking, you know, live action film comedy because you have to, everything is to do with timing. And I was just looking at this thinking,

they just don't miss a beat. They just do not miss a beat. I mean, from the gibberish language to the spot-on, snare drum-like rhythm of the slapstick comedy, it was just hit after hit after hit. And I loved every minute of it. And I think you did too? Oh, yes. Absolutely.

It would, well, I think, as you probably, heard last week that there are very few films, even if it's a joy-filled 90-minute cinematic experience where you think, I'll have another one then, you know, because no, I've seen it, it's fine. I'll come back to it in a couple of years, but I did feel as though I had clearly taken less from it. Obviously, the more you know about movies, the more you're going to get. It's still funny, like you said, you can take a 10-year-old and they're still going to laugh. But the more you know about the movies, the more you'll find it in tree. And I would to see it again, knowing more about it.

Yeah. Just fab. I just like to see it again. I just like to see it again and again. I wonder what the movie of the week will be, because that is it for this week. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team was Jen, Eric and Josh.

The producer was Don, the redacted Simon Poole. In take two, although he's disappeared to go and watch a movie. In take two, we're directing you to the overflow car park for more chat about current film releases, plus five-question film club. Three questions, Your Majesty. Thank you. Question, shmesters.

in which case, in which this week we're asked how many commemorative popcorn buckets we've acquired and if AI scraping is really all that bad, really. You can get it ad-free along with the full-back catalogue and the chance to vote on future episodes by signing up to our Patreon. Just say, Kermed-a-Mai-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-Patron for the exclusive good. Just search Kermed-A-Mah-A-Patron for the exclusive good stuff. Mark, what is your film of the week? Navana!

No, it's not Navana, is it? No, minions and monsters. I loved, loved, loved, loved, loved it. Back next week with director Thomas Cale, who's just produced Moana as a live-action Disney reimagining. Mark's review of that film, An Evil Dead Burn,

and I think I'll bestow a year's ultra-membership to our correspondent of the week, who I think I will make Jocelyn, Mr. Jocelyn Evans, member of the Goths, and slightly skeptical about disclosure, day. And it was very entertaining. You get the Ultra membership. Thank you very much indeed for listening. Please email any thoughts to correspondence at COVID-a-mail.com.