Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Are we in for a MOAN-A from Mark about live action remakes?

Episode Date: July 9, 2026

The Take is now on Patreon: www.patreon.com/kermodeandmayo Become a Vanguardista or an Ultra Vanguardista to get video episodes of Take Two every week, plus member-only chat rooms, polls and submissions to influence the show, behind-the-scenes photos and videos, the monthly Redactor’s Roundup newsletter, and access to a new fortnightly LIVE show—a raucous, unfiltered lunchtime special with the Good Doctors, new features, and live chat so you can heckle, vote, and have your questions read out in real time. Disney animated smash Moana is getting the live action treatment this week—and our guest is director Thomas Kail, who previously helmed both the screen and stage versions of Lin Manuel Miranda’s Hamilton and In The Heights too. He talks to Simon about their longstanding collaboration, the whole island of creatives it took to make this movie, and discovering the perfect Moana from thousands of auditionees in Catherine Laga’aia. Plus Mark reviews it—will he be charmed, or is this one live action remake too far? Also on the review slate this week we’ve got Rosebush Pruning, a twisted indie family drama featuring all the bodily fluids, and Evil Dead Burn—the latest in the super-influential zombie series. Is the franchise unkillable, or a dead man walking? Don’t miss Mark’s verdict. All that plus the box office top 10, the weekly trial of the Laughter Lift (sorry), and of course plenty of correspondence from you lot. Keep it coming! You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo. EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Our Christmas Movie Spectacular is back! It’s in Bristol this year on Sunday 6th December. Don’t miss it! Here’s the link for tickets: https://www.fane.co.uk/kermode-and-mayo WHAT’S ON: Dr. Jazz and the Cheshire Cats Swingin’ At The Movies: https://stockportplaza.co.uk/whats-on/dr-jazz-and-the-cheshire-cats/ The Labours of Hercule: Poirot Double Bill: https://www.picturehouses.com/movie-details/022/HO00017996/the-labours-of-hercule-poirot-double-bill?filter= Timecodes: 00:10:46 Rosebush Pruning 00:19:41 Box Office Top Ten 00:36:16 Thomas Kail interview 00:51:47 Moana review 01:01:36 Laughter Lift 01:04:10 Evil Dead Burn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello? Hello, Simon Mayo. It's Mark Kermode. Password. Sorry? State the password. What password? Exactly what an imposter would say. Simon, it's Mark. We host a podcast together.

Public information. No, you've been watching Mission Impossible again, haven't you? Uh, maybe. Right, well, you are not Ethan Hunt, and most people don't need a team of agents to protect their information. They just need NordVPN, the all-in-one digital security solution, which combines VPN and multiple other cybersecurity features. into one subscription. Antivirus? Yep, built-in, privacy first, next-gen, antivirus that blocks threats before they reach your device, not after. Anti-fishing. Yep, and protection against malware, dangerous websites, ads, and much more. It works on up to 10 of your devices, and there's a 30-day

money-back guarantee. Listers could unwrap a huge discount on NordVPN by heading to NordvPN.com slash take. Plus, with our link, you'll get an extra four months free on the two-year plan and it's risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee. Check the link in the description. Hello, Simon Mayo. Hello, Mark. I see your lovely new bookshelves haven't buckled yet. There's a particularly weighty and wise-looking one by an M. Kermode on there too. True, but getting them up nearly buckled me. Even giving up and hiring someone was a full-time job. You should have used TaskRabbit. It's an online marketplace available in the UK that connects you with skilled, reliable local freelancers called Taskers who can help with everything from

furniture assembly and home repairs to moving, gardening and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing. Get ahead of your to-do list with £10 off your first task at task rabbit.com at UK or on the TaskRabbit app using the promo code, take. Taskers across the UK book up fast, especially for same-day tasks. Get £10 off your first task right now, with promo code take at TaskRabbit.com.com.com.com.com.com.com.com. Code app. That's Taskrabbit.com. Code take. Terms and conditions apply. Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguard Easter and get an extra episode every Thursday.

Including bonus reviews. Extra viewing suggestions. Viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas. Plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in questions, Schmestan. You can get all that extra stuff via Apple Podcast. or head to extra takes.com for non-fruit-related devices. There's never been a better time to become a vanguard Easter. Free offer, now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a vanguard Easter, we salute you.

Hot diggedy, hot diggity, hot diggity, hot. Who is that? That's like an old movie. Hot diggitty, hot diggity, hot, diggity hot. Yes. What about tea? No, diggerty. No, it's hot diggity.

No, you're right, yeah, but. It's like an 1950s. Hollywood musical, which just came to me as I was feeling particularly hot diggedy. But you appear to be in a public convenience somewhere. I mean, it looks very beautiful. How dare you say that? I spent an hour setting this shot up. I am in the Guesthouse Brunstein in Oberadov in Bavaria, since I am here because the Dodgers

are playing. You know, we accompany silent movies. So we're going to accompany beggars of life tonight, just to be able to. across the way, we're currently in Bavaria, but the place we're playing, which is, and get this, the biggest opera house in Austria. Wow. It's called the Fesch Spielhaus L, and it is the biggest opera house, and we have sold it out. And because we're very big in Bavaria slash Austria.

I keep being told to not confuse the two of them. And so, yeah, so I'm here. And so I've come to this place in order to set it up and make everything look nice. And I spent an hour setting up this shot. And if anyone's watching the video, you will notice it looks. like the Grand Budapest Hotel, which I was very, very pleased with. And then when Josh, our brilliant engineer came on, he went, wow, what an amazing look like the Grand Budapest Hotel. And I said, great, brilliant. Then you come on. You tell me, I look like I'm in a toilet.

Well, it's the windows with their smoked glass. Those aren't windows. Those are panels. That's panelling. Well, that's panelling. Okay. Windows, crucially, you can see through. So are you in, so you're in Austrian Bavaria? The part of Bavaria? No, at the moment, At the moment I'm in Bavaria, and then when I leave here, I'm going to go across the stream, and then I will be in Austria. And that's where the Feshpielhaus L is. And then I will come back to Bavaria, which is where the festival is, technically, to stay the night. See? Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The last time I was there was for the World Cup when it was in Germany, 2006. And I think I was there, too. I came. Do you remember? I came out to do the movie reviews and I walked did you remember this? I was there. You forgot me. The first day when I left the hotel, all I remember

is genuinely seeing a man in Laderhosen holding a stine of beer. And it was, if you'd shot that for a movie, you would be laughed out of town because nobody wears Lader Hosen holding a pint of beer or a liter. Except they did. Now, I want to ask you something, but you may keep this until take two.

You interviewed Pete Townsend since I last saw you. Yes, that's absolutely true. Yeah, we did it at Opera Holland Park. It was a fundraiser for Terence Higgins Trust, and it was absolutely fascinating. I also found out why he wanted me to do the interview. Oh, okay. Because he was a big fan of Scala Radio, which has now become Magic Classical. And his wife is Rachel Fuller, who's a composer.

And Scala used to play The Animal Requiem, which Rachel Fuller composed, very fine piece of music. And because we did that, and then he wanted to find out what happened to Scala. So I said it became Magic Classical, slightly different music brief and all that kind of stuff. So we ended up talking about that. Wow. Yeah. Did you talk to him about the Quadrophina Opera, the Quadrophina Ballet, pardon?

Yeah, so it was there as en passant, really. It was there as part of a bigger cultural conversation. He'd brought along four pieces of, well, not four pieces of music. There were two pieces of music and two soundscapes, which he wanted people to listen to. And as it was kind of his people had come to see him, we let him do that. Okay. And also, also since I last saw you, you also interviewed Sir Christopher Nolan. You've just been interviewing everybody.

Yeah, also on the side, did Chris Nolan? two members of the specials, because there is a kind of a final specials album live from the cathedral, which is coming out this Friday, i.e. today, if you're listening to this on Friday, which is a really great recording and a reminder what a fantastic band they were.

And Chris Chibnall, who's Doctor Who's Showrunner and the guy who invented Broadchurch, you know, and so on. So, yeah, it's been quite interview-heavy. But fantastic. And the Chris Nolan chat was just something that it was, it turned out to be quite difficult to make it happen, but we did make it happen.

And people will hear that interview next week to go with the movie release. But it's always a thing. It's quite a thing to have an audience with Chris Noland. Yeah, it's very good. My most exciting thing that happened to me was that when I arrived in the airport yesterday in Munich, as I arrived in Munich, I got a notification that KLM had finally found my bags that they lost in Croatia 10 days ago. Can they send them to Munich?

No, they've sent them to. They sent them to Cornwall, and they'll probably be there by the time I get back. So well-down KLAM. Yeah. Hot Diggity is an American popular song by Al Hoffman and Dick Manning, published in 1956,

recorded by Perry Como. Perry Como. Not from a musical at all, but a hit for Perry Como. We like to keep down with current musical trends. Later, when we get down to the business, end of this thing. Mark will be reviewing some great films or some average films. Who knows? I'll be reviewing some films, which include Evil Dead Burn, which is the latest in the still

ongoing Evil Dead series, Rosebush Pruning, which is a very strange film with Callan Turner, who, as you know, is Booky's favourite to be the next James Bond, and the live action Moana with our very special guest. The director of that Disney reimagining Thomas Cale. You can get Take Two ad-free by heading to our Patreon page. Just search Kermitomo Patreon. and you'll find us. The normal place for correspondence is Correspondence at covenomero.com. Sarah in Bristol,

Hello, St George's and Bristol Beacon. Long-time listener, second-time emailer. The first one not read out, but there were far better emails than mine about I in the sky. Very humble, Sarah. Back in 2015, I bought myself a birthday treat of a ticket to see the movie doctors in Bristol.

I was very excited, as I've been listening to your wittering since Radio 1 days. Four days before, the show, I slipped not one disc, but two. Oh, it hurt a lot. So sitting on a wooden chair in St. George's was not an option. I was not happy. So here I am, 11 years later, delighted to buy a ticket to see you both this December in the much larger venue of Bristol Beacon. Thank you for bringing your show out of that there, London town, down with interfering on red cards, and up with caropractors.

Two different worlds brought together at the end there by Sarah in Bristol. Yes, Christmas show, Who would have thought we'd talk about Christmas with 33 degrees being current temperature in this room here? Now, we're previewing the sort of top-class correspondence we get in question, Schmessens, which comes at the end of Take 2. Yes. So why not give it a try? So this is just like a little taster. This is from Michael Marshall, science writer for new scientist, and co-authored a book with Alice Roberts. If that gets me any cachet, he says.

which it certainly does. Dear Ripley and Newt, long-time listener, first-time email, I just heard your question, Schmeschen, about inappropriate hospital viewing choices, 28 days later, really, in brackets, and thought, I can top that. 13 years ago, the good lady special needs tutor her indoors, and I were waiting for a room on the Labour ward of a London hospital.

It was late on a Saturday during a brutal heatwave, and she was understandably apprehensive about the imminent business of my the way michael says it is of being cleft in twain which i think is an unfortunate turn of phrase in the corner near the ceiling a tv was tuned to film four seeking distraction we looked up only to find they'd chosen aliens specifically the early dream sequence in which ripley in a hospital bed and looking decidedly feckoned has an embryonic parasite erupt from her chest the good lady while appreciating the irony was less than delighted then we're

we heard a small yelp across the room another expectant parent who looked barely 18 had gone ashen and clammy. I nipped to reception and suggested that unless they fancied doubling the labour ward as a mental health unit, they might consider switching to Dave. Happily all ended well, and on the 15th of July, it's our daughter's 13th birthday. If you read this out, could you wish Libet, a happy birthday? Okay, Libet, happy birthday. Down with orange fascists and up with neurodivergent women, hello to Jason, etc. Michael Marshall. Very good. I mean... Very good. But no one,

under any circumstances, if they're responsible for what comes out of a television in a hospital should be putting on alien or aliens or anything similar. It should be Mary Poppins or Toy Story or so. No, that's too emotional. Oh, I don't know.

What's the... What would be perfect? A local hero. or Paddington. Paddington. Paddington. That's what you need. I did it.

I did an on-stage thing with Simon Brew recently from film stories. And he was wearing a magnificent t-shirt which said, I communicate mostly through obscure science fiction. No, he said,

I communicate, yeah, I must have been it. I communicate through obscure science fiction references, mostly, which I thought was a lovely t-shirt. Very good. Correspondence at covenomero.com. Tell us about a movie

that is out. Rosebush pruning, which is a name to juggle with. This is a bourgeois satire of a rich dysfunctional family eating themselves alive in exotically sunny climes. It's directed by Brazilian filmmaker Kareem Ainuz. It is written by Ethmus Philippe, who's the Greek writer, who is best known to moviegoers for his collaborations with Jorgos Lanthimos. So he's worked with Lanthimos a number of times,

and I think one could say that this film comes on a little bit like Lantemos Light. So if you remember, Yorgas Lantemus made that weird thing, Begonia, which was an unlikely remake of a South Korean sci-fi comedy called Save the Green Planet. Well, Rosebush Pruning is an equally unlikely remake of a 1960s film, Fist in the Pocket, which is an Italian movie that in 2008 was entered into the annals of the Italian Ministry of Cultural Heritage's List of, get this, 100 films that have changed the collective memory of the country between 1942 and 1978. Wow, pithy.

Pithy. All I can say is I don't think that any similar such accolade will be bestowed upon Rosebush pruning. So in Fists in the Pocket, it's about a bit of... a young man with epilepsy who plans to kill his dysfunctional family and it's sort of darkly comedic. So in this new movie in Rosebush pruning, Callum Turner, who we saw most recently in Rose of Nevada, I think he was absolutely brilliant in Rose of Nevada. Him and George Backeye, I thought were terrific together. He is Ed. He's an American who, in very clockwork, you know, orange fashion, is our kind of humble friend the narrator who will lead us through the drama.

From him, we learn that his family moved from New York to Catalonia, where he now lives with his brother's sister and controlling blind father. The last of him is played by Tracy Letts. According to family law, their mother was torn apart by wolves in a nearby forest. And now they visit the site of her tearing apart because there was no body found. And they put sacrificial animals there in order. to appease the wolves in order to protect anybody else from being torn apart by walls. And there's something that our narrator tells us makes no sense at all. He also thinks and tells us, quite frankly, that his entire family are vacuous and self-serving, except for his brother, Jack, who is played by Jamie Bell, who is apparently the only one of us who should survive, and who brings his new girlfriend, Martha, played by L. Fanning, to dinner in one of the most excruciatingly horrible dinner scenes you can imagine in which Tracy lets,

because he is blind, says, describe her for me. Here is a clip. Martha is blonde, very white, medium build, blue eyes. And her handbag? What sort of handbag does she have? It's Botega, I think. I think it's Botega. Anna, is it or is it not Botega? Yes, yes, it is Botega. Jack got it for me as a gift. And her bosom?

Because I was... God. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I can't understand why it's wrong for me to ask about her bosom. And that's just the beginning of the excruciates. Always worth remembering, incidenty, the Tracy Letts, as a, we can't, not just a very great screen actor, but also, of course, the author behind Bug and Killer Joe.

And, you know, anyway, terrific. And the other voice, the prime voice you heard there is Rite Keough. So, as for our main character, the Callan Turner character, he's his kind of wannabe fashionista. And he narrates everything. Like, you know, in American Psycho, there's the whole thing with Patrick Bateman saying, I give the impression of, if you looked at me,

you would have the impression that somebody was there, but actually there isn't. the whole thing is an illusion. There's nothing there at all. And you do get that with this, this kind of absolutely dead panderation, that there is nothing behind it. And the look of the film is,

it all takes place in this sort of rich, modernist, glassy house setting with this kind of detached, posh lifestyle, which reminded me a little, do you remember the way the house looked in parasite? Yes. Remember it all?

Like, like there was not a single non-shiny surface in it, and everything seemed, you know, like, and in fact, in the case of this, they are all parasites feeding upon each other.

The film is shot by Elin Lovart, who is one of the great cinematographers of our time. It really kind of gets every drop of cinematic excitement out of the idea of just how detached everything looks. There's also a little bit, I think, of the kind of the arch sexual satire of that film, Infinity Pool, the Brandon Cronenberg film, which I like very much. It's a kind of setting in which sex is weaponized and commodified

and everything is an illusion and an obsession. But whilst I'm saying that the film reminded me of those movies, I have to say it isn't as good as or as memorable as any of those films. What it is is very peculiar. I mean, the sense of peculiarity is definitely heightened by the fact that the central character, Ed's narration, is so deadpan, even as what's going on on screen,

sort of swims with bodily fluids and violent perversions and sort of a really unspeakable dental care and comedic self-harm, yes, really. And just all manner of kind of fall of the house of usher, sort of incestuous depravity. In fact, the title comes from Ed's admission, because he says at one point, his sister says, I know what turns everyone on. He says, you don't know what turns me on. And she says, well, nothing turns you on. He says, that's not true.

When I was pruning the rose bush, I became very turned on. So on one level, it is kind of fall of the house of usher. family collapsing in on itself. On another, it is, it's upmarket saltburn. It's kind of saltburn for the, for the art house crowd, you know, portrait of the lives of the rich and famous in which a taste for blood is frankly the least of everyone's problems. Some of it is entertaining. Some of it is fun in a bizarre way. Some of it is way too on the nose for its own good. I mean, there's a subplot involving Pamela Anderson, which I think struggles to rise above the level of silliness. And some of it, frankly, is completely up it.

itself. Crucially, I think it isn't anything like as clever as it thinks it is. That said, I wasn't bored, not least because it's a very good ensemble cast and they are all playing it, you know, to the max. And everyone in the cast seems to be happy to throw caution to the wind as the drama wants to be outrageous. I just don't think it is as outrageous as it thinks it is. And the whole film is bookended by these 70s style titles. And there's this pumping electro soundtrack with Matthew Herbert at the helm. And that's got more than a hint of Gasparanoi. So whilst I was watching it, I thought, okay, fine, I'm enjoying this.

I am entertained. I think in the end, it is pretty unmemorable. And I suspect that if you ask me about it in two weeks time, the thing I'll remember is it's like Jorgos Lanthimos light. But there are good performances in it. And I think it will come and go very fast. It doesn't sound like it's one for me, Mark. I don't think it is.

I don't think when they were making it, they thought, I wonder what Simon Mayo thinks of this. That's correct. If indeed anyone has ever thought that to talk. Coming up after the break, Evil Dead Burn, Moana, and our special guest is director of that film Thomas Kale. You'll hear all that in just a moment.

Yeah, Mark, you remember that top secret business idea I had last year? Well, you mean credit flicks, the streaming service that only shows end credits. I've told you before. No, no, no, it's not that. Anyway, I'm not telling you now, people are listening. Suffice to say, I'm ready to go to the market. Well, in that case, you're going to need Shopify. If you've been sitting on a business idea, Shopify makes it easy to bring it to life. Everything you need to start selling is included and ready from day one. Go on. Well, it's simple for both you and the customer. From the moment, your first one is ready to pay. Shopify checkout helps more of them finish their purchase. And when they come back, their details are already saved. One tap and they're done. Well, that would be a weight off my mind. I could focus.

on growing the business. I could be ready to float on the stock market in a couple of years. That's the spirit. Because Shopify handles the setup and check out, you have more time to focus on growing your business and the tools to do it. With Shopify, nothing stands between your idea and a real business, so go make it one. Start your free trial at Shopify.com.uk slash take. Start your free trial at Shopify.com.ukuk slash take. This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising, advertising operations fall out of sync. Everything else follows.

Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. All right.

Now, before we get to our guest, Reese, age 19 in the Isle of White, I've been a long-time audience member of you both, Mark, since the film review and Simon from Radio 2, and I wanted to write to say thank you for the impact you've had on my life. Cinema became a real comfort to me during difficult periods with my mental health, and discovering your five-live show felt like finding the perfect partnership. Mark's passionate, honest love of film, combined with Simon's warmth, professionalism and humor.

Whether it's fiery rants or enthusiastic praise, the show brought lightness to my days and made me feel less alone. It became a kind of regular check-in that helped keep me grounded, and it's played a huge part in sparking and sustaining my love of film. I'm now in a much better place, and I wanted to thank you for making such a difference and helping keep that passion alive every week. I also recently saw Blue Heron at the BFI and was deeply moved by its intimate storytelling, natural performances and exploration of memory and family. favourite of the year so far. Thanks for everything. What a lovely email. It's that nice. What a really nice. Well, thank you, thank you so much. That's a really, that's a really kind email. I'm really glad you enjoyed Blue Heron, but what, yeah, thank you for taking the time to say that. Box Office top 10 at number 11, Nirvana, Navana, the band, the show, the movie.

It is pronounced Nirvana. No matter how it is spelled, it is pronounced Nirvana, okay? Okay, but if you just look at it, it's Navarna. Yeah, but I'm telling you, it's pronounced Nirvana, and I've seen the film, okay? Dear CN Tower and the Rivoli, I absolutely loved it. I'd never seen the show before beyond the update day sketch, but this was the funniest film I've seen all year. I can't remember laughing this hard in the cinema. The Gonzo Gorilla-style filming and public interactions constantly had me wondering,

how did they film that? Sending me down a rabbit hole afterwards and making me want to watch it all over again. stood out was the variety of comedy from sharp banter to fourth wall breaks, powered by a joyful, chaotic energy that never lets up. The hangover scene is still making me laugh days later. What I love most was how warm it felt. Despite the public antics, it never seemed mean-spirited, more like everyone was in on the joke. At its heart, it's a genuine celebration of friendship, no big gestures, just two people chasing a ridiculous shared dream. And that's number 11. I think that's all very fair. I had a conversation with Jack Howard the other day, and Jack is a friend of mine. He's a

friend of mine. He's a young filmmaker and he's like less than half my age. And he absolutely loves this for me. He's seen it three times. And one of the things he loves so much about it is the fact that the way in which it's interweaving old footage from when they first did the thing with the new footage because the time traveling stuff. And he said it, but he said, he said, I listened to your review. And I said, what did you think? He said, I don't think you've ever sounded older. And I think that's completely valid. I think it's absolutely valid. And in fact, I said this when I was reviewing it, that I was very aware of the fact that there were whole things about it that I simply wasn't, I was simply watching thinking, I am confused by what is going on. And I, I am very much

of the feeling that if I saw it again, now kind of in tune with what it is, it would look like about, I mean, I didn't dislike it. As you know, I reviewed it last week. I said, there are things in it. The funny, but I just found a lot of it unsettling. But Jack did say, he said, you have never sounded older in your life, and I absolutely take that as valid. And I don't think there's a problem with that. You know, we're not pretending to be hipsters. You know, we're not pretending to be 30. And if someone plays you a song that's currently popular with 16-year-olds, you know, you should not pretend to go, oh, yeah, yeah, I know all about that.

Because we are who we are. And that's it. We are, who we are, for better or worse. The richer for poorer. Number 10 is scary movie, number nine in America. Yeah, well, hopefully it'll be out of the top ten next week. Alpha is number nine. So this wasn't press screened.

This is an Indian action thriller. If anyone's seen it, send us an email, let us know. Backrooms is at number eight? Number seven in the States. Done very, very well, as has obsession. So backrooms and obsession are still there in a top ten, which has some very, very big budget movies in it, demonstrating that it is still possible to make small movies with a very good idea and do well with them.

Jackass, best and last, is number seven, number eight in Canada. Yes, so I told you that the good lady professor, her indoors, said that she laughed for about an hour after your contribution to my jackass review was, oh dear. And I don't think that there's any way that you would enjoy it at all. and I, you know, there are things that I have a really big problem with, mainly the sick and the poo, which I just can't be doing with. But I do think of all of the Jackass films, it's the one that I enjoyed the most. And I do think that there is something going on there in the centre of it about male friendship.

But there is also the sick and the poo. Disclosure Day is at number six, number five. How are you feeling about Disclosure Day now? Well, it's only a few weeks ago. I feel the same as when I saw it. But is it living in your mind or is it doing what it's doing? Yeah, some scenes are. I mean, the final, the final 20 minutes definitely does. And there are a few scenes that are particularly Spielbergian,

the one in the chase where you see a reflection in the knife. I thought that was fantastic. So there are various bits and pieces. And my opinion hasn't changed in the month since I saw it. Okay, because the interesting thing that I'm finding about it is the more I think about it, the less I think about it. I mean, I think, as I said at the time, I think that Spielberg is a master director. It's like Christopher Nolan. It's like he's not going to drop the ball. You're going to get brilliant things in it. But the more I think about Disclosure Day, the less I think about Disclosure Day.

And I do think it's going to go into the annals of Incidental Spielberg. Incidental feels a little harsh, but... No, no, as I'm saying, I... The point I'm trying to make is I'm liking it less as I get further and further away from me. I'm not disliking it. I'm absolutely not disliking it. But it's really not staying in my mind. Obsession is at number five, number six in America.

Child One saw it. Oh, and tell me. He thought it was the scariest film he's ever seen. Fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. I think it's terrific. I think it's a really, really terrific film. It's got a proper substance to it.

It is about something. I mean, it's a creepy movie. It's a monkey's poor thing. It's a careful what you wish for, but it's a film about control and domestic abuse all wrapped up as a kind of an exciting horror movie, which is really, really scary when it needs to be scary. I just think it's great that it's done as well as it has. I think it's such a good film. Supergirl is at number four here and number four over there. Okay.

Are you emails or resaving them? In the overflow car park, I think there's, I mean, there's lots of stuff on on these movies. All right. Well, let's save the Supergirl stuff for, for, for, for, I mean, as I said, I saw it, I saw it, I saw it, I did it in, I reviewed it in last week's chart. And I think that she is really good and I wish the film had been better because I kind of feel like, like, it, it's, it's, it's a tough gig when the movie.

when the movie isn't as good as the central performance. Number three in the UK, number 10 in America is the invite. Interesting that it's our top three and just making it into the top 10. That doesn't surprise me, though, because when we were talking about it last week, there was the thing about it's absolutely a kind of, it's a film with the sort of spirit of a European 1970s movie or the kind of movie that you could make in America in the 1970s, but you can't make nowadays. Anyway, Karen.

Ben Painter in Sherbourne, I felt fortunate to see the invite in the cinema, and I'm glad it received a theatrical release rather than going straight to streaming, which is something that Olivia World was absolutely 100% committed to, which is why it has happened like that. The screening wasn't busy, yet the audience became complicit guests at the dinner party, sharing in a discomfort that left us unsure where to look, what to say, or even whether to laugh. The performances make every relationship feel authentic, echoing dynamics many of us have witnessed or experienced.

Much of the humor arises from unspoken irritations, the small grievances that go unaddressed until they become something more damaging. As the film builds to its satisfying denouement, it explores fear of consequence and the inevitability of personal change sharply counterpointed by character for whom reinvention, by a character,

for whom reinvention is imposed rather than chosen. experiencing something similar myself, I found this especially affecting. For me, this distinctly adult film in the British sense suggests that while it's easy to laugh at its characters, those apparent caricatures often mask complex, unspoken circumstances. When one facade finally drops, perspective shifts from ridicule to understanding giving the film a lasting emotional generosity. It is an exceptional film, says Ben.

A lasting emotional generosity. I suggest that's maybe the best written email that we're going to get this week. No, that is beautifully written. I mean, I think it's more scabrous than that. I think it's, you know, it has got a sort of soft heart in the end. But I think for the most part of it, it is that kind of, I mean, actually, weirdly enough, I suppose it's generically connected to Rosebush pruning in as much as it's a bourgeois satire of manners. but I do think it's fascinating that it is an adult film in the best sense of adult,

not in the sense that the Americans use the word adult, meaning porn. It is a film for grown-ups, and I thought it was really funny. I love, I do really, I mean, you talked about this, the sound design of people talking across each other, but you can actually hear what they're saying. And that was very much a kind of, you know, Robert Altman, Woody Allen sort of thing, which we were all kind of used to. And it is interesting watching that film now, how completely out of step with modern American cinema it looks. And, you know, it's the sort of movie that you just can't make anymore.

And how just, I mean, I know this is a minor point. We have discussed it before. How terrible that in America, the word adult means porn. You know, there are things that are adults which are just grown up, you know, and this is a grown up movie, you know. Yes, but then you have to remember that in America, the films, most films, if not NC17, which is the, you know, the exceptional category, are for grown-up audiences are rated R, which anyone can go and see. So an R rating is anyone can see the film as long as a parent or guardian says they're okay.

And you go, okay, well, that doesn't work, does it? The reason that your cinema is so infantilized is that you have an entire system built around the idea that a four-year-old should be able to go and see an adult film. in the true sense of the word adult. And that's why you have an infantilized culture and an infantilized cinema. Number one in America, number two here is minions and monsters. So let me zip through.

Yes, please do. And please, please tell me nice things. Because I'm so, I feel so positively about minions and monsters. I just want to hear good things. Matt and Deb in Mac. That's how they signed it. My wife and I took ourselves to see the new minions movie the independent cinema in Macclesfield yesterday,

and what fun it was. The cine literate riot of a film that seemed to be made for Mark himself by Pierre Coffin, the gibberish is always understandable. How do they do that? And Coffin is clearly the heart of the film. What DreamWorks would do without him, I don't know. He's essential for the franchise going forward. I think he mean in the future.

Who else can do what he does? Looking forward to revisiting the film to understand it, better man. Matt and Deb. Robin Hancock. Picture this. an excited drive to the airport for an amazing holiday, my son and I in the car listening to this week's episode in chuckling at Mark's review of Minions.

We arrive at our airport parking just before the end of the review and switch off the car. We jump out, grab our bags and head to reception. After a short while in a rather packed bus, it takes us to the terminal. Now, it may not have been the best idea that my phone was on the loudest setting.

However, having found our spot on the bus, I pulled out my phone to read a message, not knowing the podcast was still running. Q, the loudest fart noise ever. Being the centre of attention on a crowded bus wasn't in the plan for the day, but hey-ho, what a start to other holiday. We chuckled all the way to the plane.

Thank you for your wonderful programme and, of course, all dues to the brilliant production team. Robin Hancock's. Chris in Durham, Dear Mr. Tumble and Mr. Tumble dryer, I'm not quite sure I had to make of this email. Does Mark agree that it's both misleading and unconscionable to deliberately narrow the window of a movie

to focus only on its subjects more palatable events while stopping short of any controversial aftermath. I am, of course, referring to minions and monsters. Set in the early 20s, and with a biological imperative to seek out and serve the world's most evil tyrants, the movie deliberately ends just before the minions served Mussolini in 22, moving on to Stalin in 24, and inevitably Hitler from 1933. Emitting this chilling coda feels like a cynical yellow washing of history.

I'm imagining that's a humorous email and not serious criticism. Yes, I'm imagining it's a humorous email as opposed to an email that goes to use one of my favorite phrases straight to the heart of the periphery. Yes. Anyway, so that is minions and monsters at number two.

I think we've said... I just loved it. And you loved it too, didn't you? It's not just me. You loved it, right? I did, and I sat there knowing that you would love it. It's just one of it because... As I said,

last week, you see it and within 10 minutes, you think, no, no, I've got to come back and see this, because I might be getting, I mean, you probably got them all, but I was getting one reference in two, one reference in three, and then the jokes are so fast, you're thinking, no, I need to come back to just enjoy everything there. It's just a demonstration that the hit rate of comedy in it is just fantastic. And it does make you realize that we sort of sometimes get used to just accepting that comedies aren't as funny as they need to be. And then you see minions and monsters, and you go, okay, look at that. It's airplane levels of bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, jokes. And the slapstick in it is just sublime. And the cinema stuff is, yeah, it was, it was made for me.

And I loved your interview with Pierre Kofen. And if people haven't heard that, go back and listen to it on the podcast, because it was terrific. And the number one movie in the UK, number two in America is Toy Story 5 about which you've... Yeah, I mean, you see, I'm not a fan, but it's doing terrifically well, and so clearly the Toy Story franchise still has legs. And lots more correspondence later in the overflow car park. Also, stuff on Supergirl and minions and monsters and so on. Anyway, at intake 2, available

via Patreon and stand by because we have a special guest next. In Toronto, every arrival is a statement, and nothing says it better than this. Cadillac Optic was the number one selling luxury EV in Canada for 2025. Find your rhythm across a seamless 33-inch display and an immersive 19-speaker AKG surround audio system. This city demands agility, and Optic delivers with precision to make every drive extraordinary. Let's take the Cadillac.

Find out more at Cadillac Canada.ca. Luxury sales claim based on S&P Global Mobility Canadian New Vehicle Total Registrations for calendar year 2025 for the Cadillac definition of luxury. Whether life serves you an ace or an unexpected backhand, the high-protein yogurt, Oikos Pro, is there to feed your strength and help you turn every challenge into a smash. Oikos Pro helps build strong muscles and support muscle recovery with high protein and contains no added sugar because true strength isn't about being able to take the hits. It's about being able to bounce back.

Oikos Pro, feed your strength. Visit oikos.ca for more details. So I guess this week is American Theatre, Film and TV Director Thomas Kale, best known for his Broadway hits in collaboration with Lin-Manuel Miranda in The Heights in 2008, got a nomination for a Tony. Hamilton in 2015 won a Tony Award for that. Also on Broadway, Lombardy and Magic Bird. He got an Emmy for the Fox Live broadcast of Greece Live,

also for the film adaptation of Hamilton, which is on Disney Plus. He was executive producer and director for Foss Verdon and the historical drama. We were the lucky ones from a couple of years back. Also, the co-creator and director of the hip-hop improv group Freestyle Love Supreme, which also features, of course, Lynn Manuel Miranda.

And now, Moana, working again in collaboration with Mr. Miranda for the new live action adaptation of the film. You'll hear my chat with Thomas Cale after this clip from the film. Moana, listen. Do you know who you... The stories are true. The story has just begun. Beyond our reef,

an evil darkness has found us. Moana, the ocean shows you. Find Maui. Restore the heart of Tefeiti and save us all. Maui, demigod of the wind and sea. Hero of men. Huh?

So it goes like this. Mali, shapeshifter, demigod of the wind and sea, hero of men. Ah, women. Women, too, men and women. Thank you. That's a clip from Moana. I'm delighted to say it's director, Thomas Kale, is with us on the show. Hello, Thomas. How are you?

I'm very well. How are you? I'm good. thank you for talking to us on the show today. I love the set that we have here. I feel as though I'm almost on one of your islands. Well, we got your email, so we wanted to make sure that happened. Absolutely.

Tell us how you got involved with this. I mean, in many ways, you were the obvious person to pick, but how did you get involved with this film in the first place? So in 2014-15, when I was working on Hamilton alongside Limman-Well, he would disappear every now and then up into his dressing room. And I would be out in the house. And I say, has anyone seen Lynn? And then I'd hear him, you know, banging on the keyboard.

I was like, Lynn, that's not our show. He's like, I know, I know. He was writing Moana at the same time he was writing Hamilton. That must be very annoying. Well, he's a dear friend, but I do like it when he finishes the work. The problem is he was kind of done with Hamilton at that point, so I guess he was doing both homework assignments. But he would grab Hamilton cast members and have them do demos. So I just, I heard it along the way.

You know, we were just kind of, we're together all the time. And I obviously had nothing to do with that original film other than I bought a ticket and cheered when I sat in the theater. And then all these years later, when the opportunity came up, I actually didn't hear about it first from Lynn. Someone from Disney reached out to me and Lynn was excited that they were talking to me and I guess hadn't said too many terrible things when I wasn't in the room.

And then I sat down with Dwayne in March of 2003, so a little more than three years ago. And that was my first time meeting Dwayne. And it felt in those first few minutes that we were just, we were on the same frequency in terms of what we're interested in doing. You know, I'm someone who comes from the theater. And the great Peter Brooke talked about how making theater is like writing messages in the melting snow. And so I've made some stuff that's lasted for a while and I've made some stuff that went away after a weekend.

But eventually it all goes away. And there was something about this opportunity to make something that was lasting and could endure with this story, with human beings that really made me set up straight. I just, I was very interested in that idea. And the notion that we could you know, have this kind of transposition. Again, because I work in the theater, the idea of doing a revival where text is the same or similar, but the interpretation of it is what allows it to be new and fresh. It was really, you know, it's how I grew up. I mean, I grew up both watching them and I've made a few of those, you know, in my career. And it just, I don't know, it felt like a new mountain to climb. I'm someone, if I dig a big hole and everyone says, good, go dig

another hole. I was like, no, I think I'm going to go swim and then I go diving and they go Great. Seems like you're pretty good at diving. Do you want to dive again? I was like, I think I'm actually going to go see if I can break that rock. I don't really, I don't want to do the same thing twice. I want to, I tell a lot of the same stories in different, you know, in different places. I think I'm chasing the same thing. And this story had a lot of that too. Who are you?

What if the thing that you think you are is different or dissonant from what's inside of you? What do you leave behind? And what happens within a family and a community if it starts to change and you don't know where you fit in? I mean, those things are sort of rife throughout the stuff. So when you'd had the conversation with Dwayne Johnson, do you call Lynn then? Or do you call, or at what stage do you say, hey, they're asking me? Well, I mean, I don't know that it's every day, but Lynn and I talk probably about 500 to 700 times a year.

So some days it's three times. Some days it's none. But Lynn and I are in constant conversation. So Lynn was like tracking my movements on the way to the meeting. I mean, so he was very aware of what was going on. And so I talked to him within 30 minutes after the meeting. So you can find, follow your iPhone. He's got one of those tracking things.

You know, it's actually, I think it's in my ankle now. You know, he must have put it there at some point during the Heights. But yeah, I just talked to him. And then I also said, and however this works out, you know, I really am someone, you know, I really just enjoy the conversation about the possibility of making something. And sometimes the world says, yes, you can do it. And sometimes someone else makes it. But I just, it was really nice to get to meet a fellow traveler.

I mean, one of the beauties of this business is that you can bump into people you've never met. I don't know that in lots of bingo cards, you'd have, you know, Dwayne Johnson and Tommy Kale necessarily. But when we started talking, I thought, oh, he's just been in that part of the forest and I've been in this one, but we've been after a lot of the same things.

And this movie felt like a chance to converge. Can I ask you about casting of Moana? Of course. Because obviously that's so crucial. And I was thinking about how to ask this. And then I came up in the lift this morning with Moana. Did you really? Yes.

So that's a kind of take your breath away moment. So just explain how long it took you to find her an engaging process, I'm sure, but tell us how you found her. Can you even believe that she exists? I mean, you know, she's 19 years old now. I met her when she was 16. She submitted a tape. There were 32,000 people that put their hands up to try to play on it. How many?

32,000. Okay. And I saw a tape that had come through. Our casting director on this, I've worked with for you. years and years, Bernie Telsie and Tiffany. And I also, they've known me long enough to know. I mean, all the way back to in the heights. I mean, I've done probably, I don't know,

a lot of things, 10 things with them. I don't want to know any, I don't want any spin on the ball. If you're putting folks in front of me, that means that you obviously think there's something there, but don't tell me who you're favorite. Like, that's not interesting to me and I don't want to have anything when I watch. So, you know, I sat down on my computer

and I pressed play and she was seeing how far I'll go and the hair in the back of my neck stood up. And I thought, oh, I've had this feeling before. I've had this feeling when I met W. Diggs or Pippa Sue or Leslie Odom. That's a useful tool to have. Yeah. Well, you know, that's a biological reaction. It is a biological reaction.

And I think that there's something about getting older where you're able to quiet out the static and really listen to what the transmission is. And I've, one of my favorite things is when you get to see something before the world has seen it. And I've had the great honor of having this happen to me with some folks where I've been in a little rehearsal room. And I had a feeling that when you put that in front of a group of people, something was going to happen. And when I first saw Catherine sing, and I saw her storytelling, and I saw the light in her eyes, and I saw the way that she approached it. This was, again, a tape. This was before I'd said anything to her. I saw what her instincts and her impulses were. I just thought, can we set?

She was in Sydney and I was in New York. I said, I'd like to zoom with her because I want to now see. in between those, you know, elements. And then we started talking. And I thought, oh, she's going to look at Dwayne and go, I got you. That's fine. Like, I just thought there was no blinking. She was both bold and also empathetic.

And her sense of humor was kind of sly. She's the seventh of eight kids. So you can't really put one past on her. And she was unafraid. And then she came to New York about four or five months later. And she walked in the room. And everything we hoped to be true was confirmed. And I think when you're about to make something of any size and scale,

you want to really be breathing the same air. And so obviously that was the next logical step. And I mean, I knew it early and that it was just affirmed all along the process. Is Catherine La Aga Aya? Is that how you said then? Longa Aya. So, but she has to do, she has to be a particular, not only does she have to be the woman that we've seen in the original show, but she has to fill the screen and she has to be fearless.

But there's still the Disney princess thing, which she has to be as well. And she has to sound amazing when she's singing. has a lot of qualities that she has to hit. Well, yeah, I mean, she's in as this particular, she's the daughter of the chief. And so what you know is there's something that's to come along with that. So she has to technically, she has to act,

she has to sing, she has to dance, she has to swim, she has to be underwater doing things. She has to be interacting with animals both there and not there. She has to be opposite Dwayne Johnson. She has to be opposite, you know, the rest of this company. She has to be in front of 200, you know, people in 100 degrees.

weather and the village that we set up. It's almost an impossible thing that anybody could do that. And in fact, I said to Catherine many times, I said, you were in high school six months ago. The distance from high school to this is a steeper climb than you will ever have to make in this business. Because anything you do after that, you've had the high altitude training of making this film, which asks all of you. And again, and we said this not glibly, you can say you're doing Moana, but until you cast Moana, you're not doing Moana. You have no chance. And then we met her and we had a chance. She gave us a chance to do that. And you know, she's in basically every inch of this movie too. I mean, this is not someone who, you know,

comes in for, you know, 20 days of shooting. You know, this is someone who's there day in and day out. And I just, and I watched, I watched her, much like the character, because we started shooting chronologically in the village. So we did all that early stuff first. And we weren't always chronological, but we did start there. So everything when she's finding herself, am I, could singing how far I'll go, that was the first 12, 15 days of shooting. And I think that you feel some of her revolution throughout the courts. So we came out of the lift and I followed her and her entourage down the corridor to where you're filming. And as soon as she saw the poster, she said, oh, I'm home. So she knew. Don't make me cry in front of people. Okay. You know, interesting.

That's what she said. That's okay. You know, we just came from Sydney, which is her hometown. And I said it was both a homecoming and a coming out. Like watching that country put their arms around her was quite profound for me. And as we were flying together to London, I said, have you been here before? She said, yeah, I went once in high school right before I started this three years ago. I mean, the fact that the last time she stepped on this soil, that's who she was. and now she comes back and says, I am home in that regard, is moving, and she's really special. Was there a moment in the filming and the creation of this movie when you thought, okay, it's now its own thing?

Of course, there was the original text, but where it sort of became its own movie. You know, yes, and I think it was initially for us, because when you're standing in the village and you're standing around 10 Follay and 200 Polynesian actors, and it's really 100 degrees or 40 degrees, I think I thought of it. Yeah, yeah. It's, you realize you're doing something that has never existed. Even if the text is the same, even though this original film, which we love just as much as everybody else, is our guide and our blueprint, seeing those bodies move choreographically. There's a moment in where you are where Moana sings for the first time, so here I'll stay.

And seeing the work that Tiana and the choreographer, you know, had sort of laid on to this. company, you know, you just, you felt something. And, you know, and seeing Catherine at the tip of this triangle out in front, you know, this stepping into that moment and her seamlessness and her confidence there was really something to behold. So that was a moment. That was, you know, day three of shooting. Yeah. Do you think there's an extent to which Disney live action films get judged before anyone has seen them? Well, I don't, I mean, I don't judge them. I will say there's certainly people, because of their affection for the original, that want to make sure that something was honored. And so I understand that. And we approach this again, not afraid of what we were doing,

but trusting what we were doing. And, you know, the reality is this, you know, this film existing in this way, the way it celebrates and memorializes culture, to be back with Lynn's music, and to be with this score and these characters, you know, to quote, to quote Catherine, it feels like going home, both for me and I think for many of us. I think that's what this movie means. That's why it stayed with people. That's why these songs have been in people's heads for 10, 11 years now. Because it, you know, song gets inside of you and it transports you. It takes you back. It's like that moment in Ratatouille when the critic eats the food, right? Like that moved me deeply when I saw that the first

time. That's a great sequence. Because that's it, right? Like, it's grandma. He tasted that and he was back with his grandma. Whatever life had meant up until that point and you get away from that and it connects you. And I think music does the same thing. There is a moment at the end of most films actually now, where there's a line in the credits that says no part of this film may be used by AI to train AI and so on. Is your approach to AI as a creator and a producer and a director and a musician as well?

Is it a useful tool or is it a creative threat? I mean, I see these conversations as they evolve. I would like to continue to illuminate and be educated on this. I heard that Steven Spielberg is going on like a summer long learning about AI so he can answer the question. I heard him say that. So which I was like, oh yeah, like there is an opportunity to deep dive coming out of the other side of this. I think the idea of using something as a tool to support human invention and human creation is interesting to me. I will say like when we made our final crawl, you know, the credits, I asked our post supervisor.

I said, how many people are credited in this film? And she said, it's 2,944. 2,944 human beings made this movie. Those shots that you see of Takah were made by an artist. They were made by somebody. They were created. That one shot, you know, they might have worked on that one shot for months and months and months, hundreds of iterations, you know, and that's not an exaggeration.

And so when I think about that, you know, as a responsibility, that I was able to work on something, the provided work and sustenance for families, for 2,944 people over this process of the three years of making it. Films are made by, you know, by real people, and real people doing jobs from catering and laundry to creating the effects shots, you know, to driving trucks. Like these are, you know, these are people working,

and those skills are ones that I want to celebrate that, you know, that we can come together and make something. But Dwayne Johnson's wig is real and not special effects. That is a real wig And I asked if I could wear it today But he said no Thomas Kale, a privilege to speak to you Thank you very much indeed for your time

I appreciate it. Thank you for your questions This is fun Thomas Kale talking about Moana I hadn't met him before But we had a good time And it was a fantastic start to Because you're in the hotel For about half an hour, 40 minutes

To just go in the lift And then this entourage appear With Moana in the middle of it Was I thought okay This is a good way to start the day I think. Should also say that we didn't hear it then, but at the very beginning of the interview, he says, Tommy. And you say, I'm not Thomas.

He said, no, Tommy. He says, but if you put it on the poster, and then it's Thomas. But he was very much Tommy, wasn't he? Well, when I was doing the prep for it, it felt as though it was both. But it's a bit, so when I did the Christopher Nolan interview, I call him Sir Christopher at the beginning. And then afterwards, you become more casual, a bit like your majesty. and then whatever it is you have to move into.

You know, so it was, it just, it's, on all the blurb, it talked about Thomas Kale. Yes, because that is his name. That is his name, yeah. So if he wants to be Tommy, then that's fine. But I went with the given name as I had it on the sheet of paper. So let me leap in here because I kind of feel that I was, I was very pointedly, backhandedly cited in that. I don't think so.

No, okay. So this is live action remake of the 2016 animated adventure Moana. Last year, or whenever it was, yeah, it was last year. We had a live action version of How to Train Your Dragon, in which the beefiest character who was voiced in the animated version by Gerard Butler was played in the live version by Gerard Butler. And we sort of said, isn't it funny that Gerard Butler in real life actually looks like Stoic the Vast? So now we have a live-action version of Moana in which the beefiest character,

who's voiced in the animation by Dwayne the Rock Johnson, is played in the live version by Dwayne the Rock Johnson, who also produces and is very much the sort of driving force. And we're all going, isn't it amazing how much Dwayne Johnson actually looks like the animated character? You've also got Jermaine Clement back as the giant, you know, villainous treasure hoarding crab. Now, factual stuff first. This is the latest in Disney's ongoing mission to extend the sell-by-date of their back catalogue by, I have to say, largely, pointlessly remaking all their animations with, in inverted

commas, real people, albeit real people in inverted commas, augmented by enough CG in special effects, that, you know, what actually is live and what is animation is becoming increasingly blurred. I was having a conversation with a critic friend of mine on the way out because we were talking about the animation of the sea. One of the things I talked about when I was talking about the film the first time around was the way in which the sea was done was fantastically. And of course, actually, when the sea opens and all that stuff, there's a huge amount of animation in it.

There's a huge amount of animation with the monsters. So the breakdown between live action and animation, I mean, if you see Avatar, you're effectively watching an animated film that happens to have real people in it. Anyway, anyway. So this is directed by TV and theatre graduate Thomas, Tommy, to his friends, Kael. And you asked him in that interview very pointedly, do you think that these live action remakes get prejudged by critics? And he, in his reply, also, which is a very generous reply, but also quite pointedly, cited Anton Ego from Rattahoo, who is the critic in Rattatooie, who does the thing with that.

I mean, I know he cited him in the context of the bit when he has the thing which takes him back into his past, okay? But so you were both doing that. So I think it is hard, nay, impossible to improve on the original animated Moana, which I remember when it came, I j-I raved about it. I mean, I thought the whole thing, you know, this Polynesian teenager's quest to save her homeland, it's got eye-watering visuals, it's got earworm songs,

it's got this heart-swelling message about respecting the past and hoping for the future. And it's got all those mad scenes in it. The scene with the Kakamura Pirates, you know, the ships look like something out of Mad Max. And then the whole thing with the with the fiery lava thing, which, I mean, I remember because the BBFC certificate was PG for mild threat, you're going, that's mild threat. It's absolutely terrifying. So, you know, all of that is back here. and is as animated as it was before.

But I went back to my written review of Muana, my observer review of it, and I finished that review with the following. I'm going to quote myself, but there's a point to it because it's kind of self-reflexive. I said, this film is an animated fantasy, but as 2016 comes to a close, one could be forgiven for wishing it was real.

Now, you know, that expression, be careful what you wish for. So what I actually meant was the way things were in 2016, you wish the story of this thing was real, but I wished for a real version of it. And, you know, like becoming a real boy, it is now in inverted commas real. And I will say this, of all the pointless Disney live action remakes and bearing in mind what I've said about live action and animation art very close together anyway, this is the best. And I was trying to figure out why as I was watching it because I really enjoyed myself watching it. And I thought it's a number of things. Firstly, the story and the songs are indestructible.

In just the same way that the songs of Abba are indestructible in Mamma Mia, there is something that is so hardwired into the very essence of the Moana story that it would be hard to mess it up. And this doesn't, and it doesn't even come close to messing it up. in response when you said to um to Thomas Tommy to his friends um you were asking him about this thing about you know how do you how do you tell a story again that's been so successful and he said well you know when it comes to theatre you're always basically doing another version of a story that's what it is and he said I tell a lot of the same stories in different places which I thought was a very

sort of smart phrase and then he went on to say that the point is it's to do with the key themes being universal. Who are you? What if the thing you think you are is different or dissonant? What happens when you're in a family and you don't fit in? And those are fairly indestructible, timeless themes. So put broadly, this does no harm to the original. And more importantly, it is often almost as enjoyable as the original, almost. It does help that Dwayne, Johnson in the flesh is, I mean, for a start, I love Drane Johnson. I mean, I just think he can do no wrong. He's fantastic. And you see him in the flesh and you go, that's it. You are, you are like a cartoon character, but real because he's so, you know, everything is an incredible physical

performer. He's a really physical performer, but that really helps. It also helps that Catherine Lugaya, who's, oh, I hadn't realized. She's, so she's the daughter of Jay who's a actually a fairly well-known actor, being Star Wars and things, is fantastic. And what did he say? 32,000 applications. Yeah.

And you go... I mean, it's astonishing. And I found his... When he said he had that biological reaction to someone appearing on the screen, he's fantastic. Well, no wonder. Because she's great.

I mean, she is really good. And I don't know how... I mean, I did... These figures, I don't know what you would do with 32,000 applications. I mean, I presume most of them don't even get past the application stage, but they found the right person. So they already had the right person in the form of Dwayne Johnson, who, as I said, is kind of the driving force anyway. And then she's terrific. She's got a great presence. She's got a great voice.

She's really, and he had this biological reaction. And against my better judgment and the pre-judging, which you sort of cited in the interview, I laughed. And I cried and I thought, okay, it's working. Now, does it top the original? No. Does it undercut it? No. I'm doing the thing which you hate. I'm asking myself questions.

You're interviewing yourself. I'm interviewing myself like every other. Do we need it? Absolutely not. Did I enjoy it? Yes. And will other people enjoy it? Yes, they will.

And honestly, right now, that I think matters more than anything. So against all my inherent grumpiness and my fundamental belief that you don't need to remake these animations in live action, I thought it was pretty good. Well, I'm glad you liked it.

And it occurred to me that I was the perfect person to go and do this interview because I have never seen the original. No. Never seen the original because it's like when your kids, it depends how old your kids are. You either watch it like a thousand times, as the redactor has, because kids are of that age. But if I had no reason to see it, if there wasn't an interview to go with it, then I would have missed it.

So I missed the original Moana. So this is my first time seeing it on the big screen. Wow. And just picking up on the point that he made towards the end, that obviously the AI conversation is going to be with us forever. And every movie now has that line and every audiobook has that line. but that's an incredible number of people. 2,944 people are credited on this film and earned hopefully a decent wage working on this movie,

which obviously has got some computers and everything involved in it. And as he said, he needs to learn a lot more. And if Spielberg needs to go away and learn a lot more, then obviously we all do. But that's a lot of people. It is. Real people making a real film. And also the film will be seen by a lot of people.

people buying real tickets to go to real cinemas. So, as you have always said, regardless of what any critic thinks of anything, anything that gets people into cinemas is a good thing. So yeah, thumbs up reluctantly. Correspondence at codemone.com. And now with a great sense of liberation, we step into our gaudy laughterlift. Here we go. What a great piece of music this is, by the way.

It is. Mark, did I tell you about our exciting new neighbour here in showbiz, North London? No. He's made an absolute fortune in supplying technology like iceboxes, chiller cabinets, and the like to homes and restaurants. Okay. He's a fridge magnet. Got them. Oh, and I should tell you, Mark, things aren't going quite so well at home again.

Okay. I suppose you're not going to be surprised here, but the good lady. Ceramacist Thereindor says that I don't respect her privacy. At least that's what it says in her diary anyway. She got really angry and she said, and another thing, please will you stop your incessant Monty Python references? Please don't tell me again that my mother was a hamster and my father smelled to belled berries. Don't do that ever again. Seems reasonable enough. Will this be a five-minute argument or the full half hour, I said. Hey. And I was out the house. What still to come, Mark, as far as you're aware?

Evil dead burn. Next. What happens when two people who grew up in a very strange corner of Los Angeles look back and realize just how bizarre their upbringings really were? They start a podcast, of course. I'm Ashley Johnson. And I'm Talas and Jaffe. Before we became the internet people we are today, we spent our childhoods as working actors, appearing in shows like growing pains and films like Mr. Mom. In our podcast, Weird Kids, we're diving deep into our unique upbringings, our friendship with each other, and all the delightfully odd interests we still carry with us today.

In each episode, we get to share stories of our youth, the things that bring us joy, the problems that we face, and occasionally the friends we've collected along the way. If you're a misfit, an outcast, or just a weirdo who loves all things nostalgic and unconventional, come take a seat at our table. Each week, we'll be releasing previously members-only episodes on YouTube and all major podcast platforms, with new episodes dropping exclusively and ad-free on beacon.tv. We finally got her. Oh, my God, he got her. For years, a deranged man in Wichita, known as the poet, stalked Ruth Finley. He sent her letters, gifts, and poems. The Wichita police put everything they had into Ruth's case, but got nowhere.

The poet was always two steps in front of us, and we just didn't know why. And the city was already living in fear under the watch of another monster who called himself BTK. And he also had a thing for poetry. Could we really have two different people? But no one could have guessed how this would end. That's one of those Hitchcock endings that we did not expect. From Sony Music Entertainment and New metric media, this is the poet. I'm Rachel Brown.

The Poet is available now on The Binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcast to start listening today. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes, all at once, add free. An email from John in London, dear clownfish and blue tang, after hearing your discussion about older French films, often ending with the simple fin and not Le Féin, which we haven't had explained just yet, I couldn't help but think of a rather jarring end card

used in the Swedish version of Finding Dory. Following the film's emotional climax, the camera pulls back from Marlin and Dory to reveal the vast, empty ocean. Thomas Newman's beautiful score perfectly captures the journey of love, family and companionship that we've just experienced. Then one word fades into view.

It's the Swedish equivalent of the end and the word is, in English, slut. Pronounced in Swedish, sloat. There it is. There is the end card. Wow. Wow.

So it's pronounced sleut. And on trains, before you get to the, I look this up, before you get to the final stop, it often says slut station, sleut station. So that's where you're going to end up. Anyway, so thank you very much. Yes, that would be slightly off-putting and judgmental. John, thank you, correspondence atcom. What else is out?

You've mentioned evil-dead burn, I think. Yeah, evil-dead burn, latest evil-dead outing, directed and co-written. by Sebastian Vanichick, produced by Bob Tapper and Sam Ramey. So this follows if Fethy Alvarez's evil dead and Lee Cronin's Evil Dead Rise. So it's either the sixth film in the series or the third film in the reboot chapters, depending on what you're sort of counting as year zero. So the taglines, every family has its demon as its demons, and also family is the root of all evil.

Good taglines. Shame about the rest of it. So the official setup for Evil Dead Burn is, following the death of a mother's son, a family comes together in a secluded house. The gathering becomes a family reunion from hell as members gradually turn into deadites. Here is a clip from the trailer.

William, a sweet boy. You would give anything for us to be together again. Our grandfather believed the devil would return if anyone read from the Book of the Dead. Kunda. The whole family can be reunited. Wow.

You get the general idea. Yes, I do. So just to get, you know, it gets up to speak. So, because I have a great love of and affection for evil dead. So the very first evil dead, it was cut by the BBC, was then released on video. It was hauled through the court on obscenity charges. The BBFC, the first report, when they first saw it, one of the examiners felt that they had been physically assaulted by the

film and was just appalled by it. Furman, James Furman, who was then head of the BBC, understood that it was a comedy. And actually, I think, would probably have been all right with passing it uncut. But it got impounded under the OPA before the introduction of the Video Recordings Act. And it got some section two things. It famously went to court in Snaresbrook, where they won a court, a case against it, arguing that it actually wasn't. but because it was impounded with a bunch of other things that we got tied up with the OPA, which is kind of ridiculous because it is a comedy. I mean, it was always described by Sam Ramey as the three stooges with blood and guts for custard pies.

So then Evil Dead 2 upped the, up the budget and clarified the comedy. I mean, basically it revisited the original set pieces in slightly more spectacular fashion, but clarified much more than it was a comedy. Army of Darkness, which Evil Dead 3, dropped the ball completely. Series should have ended there, which it sort of did for a while. And then returns from the grave, Fély Alvarez's Evil Dead, which sort of stripped away the comedy

and played things with a kind of fairly straight post-torture porn bat. And I went back to my review to remind myself what I thought. I'd say it was nasty, but oddly and fatally not frightening, an endurance test that somehow lacks the joie de Viva that perversely underwrote the original. Then he had Evil Dead Rise, which, you know, spam in a cabin of the original,

becomes, you know, dismemberment in a tenement, which is kind of fun in a cheese gratery sort of way. But again, not scary. And let's never forget that the thing with the first evil dead was it was funny, but it was really scary. And maybe you had to be there at the time, but it was really genuinely scary as well as funny. As for this, despite a sort of half-hearted attempt to wrap a spousal violence family dysfunction subtext onto what's essentially a series of wincey set pieces. It's noisy, loud, and I really regret having to say this. I thought it was depressing. I went in at the end of a long day,

wanting to be delighted. New Evil Dead movie, great. It was quite a small cinema movie, quite close to the screen, you're going to get Evil Dead stuff, and I came out feeling genuinely dispirited. In fact, one of the distributors, God bless them, who I had only ever communicated with on email came up and introduced themselves to me and said, hi, I'm so, and I said, oh, that's nice. Did you enjoy the film? No. Oh. And it was as if my longstanding love of horror had been taken away from me and had the sort of

life snuffed out of it. I mean, the thing is, it ups the nastiness, but it lacks any of the slapstick fun. That's always been the sort of strongest card of the series. There's way too much plot. There's way too many characters. There's way too little layer of celebration. The main problem is the palette of the film is ugly. It is ugly and grimy, and it's closer to that.

I mean, I know you're not a horror fan, so you won't have seen a lot of these films, but there was a point when the torture porn thing was happening, which was a phrase that once you'll only ever use in inverted commas like Video Nasty, in which suddenly every single movie you were watching was a kind of green, gray, brown sludge, looked like kind of rusting feces.

It was just, It was just something unpleasant. I can't imagine why I didn't like it. Exactly. But the thing is that wasn't true of the original, which was like bold and colorful and particularly Evil Dead too. Now, occasionally you do get shots that specifically quote the signature shot from Evil Dead in which, because they didn't have a steady cam, they got a camera and put it on the

end of, put it on the middle of a plank of wood. And they ran through the woods doing that with a plank of wood. So you get these incredible shots. of like rushing along this, like very, very shonky steady cam. And those shots were the things that sort of defined the evil dead. Now, you do get those shots here. And you also get a kind of physical, visceral kind of umph to it all. But the weird thing is that all that served to do was remind me how much more fun it was when I saw these shots done probably worse because they were done, you know, sort of done much more on the fly. And yet with a sense of joy. And it's this, I mean,

The violence, the on-screen violence is wincey. I mean, it's, you know, it's fish hooks in the face and it's razors and things being stuck in your ear. And there is an unhealthy and unpleasant amount of licking drool and dribble and faces being pushed into, I mean, as I'm saying, it sounds, it sounds more fun than it is. Not to you, I understand. No, no, it really doesn't. No, but understand that there is a certain, I mean, I can hear me here saying this and go,

well, we'll watch that. Faces pushed into squishy other faces. But it's just generally a bit ucky. On the plus side, it's, you know, some of the direction has a kind of anarchic physicality and, you know, a sense of bodies being smashed this way and that and, you know, of gravity going, you know,

a bit inceptiony and spider-walky. But none of that made me feel any sense of joy. And I think the thing is that outside of a few set pieces. I mean, there is one thing with an old woman and a stanner stair lift, which is quite funny. I mean, that is a gag. It is a gag setpiece. But for most of it, it doesn't have any of the nimble wit of the evil dead. It just has this sort of sense of lumbering nastiness. And I found myself, I mean, it's funny because the poster evokes drag me to hell or, you know, send help. I mean, both of which had a real sense of fun to them. This just

just wants to be headbanging. And I found myself getting bored and I found myself getting increasingly annoyed that it wasn't entertaining me. And I was, you know, you just kept thinking, in the original, there's that brilliant scene in which a character literally with white eyes goes, we're going to get you. And it's really terrifying. And in this, everyone's just yelling and screaming. And it's, you know, the original was terrifying and hilarious. And this is neither. correspondence at codemoe.com, if you see that or any of the other films that we're talking about, thank you very much for the what's-ons that you're sending in. Some of these are audio, some of them have visual. Let's get to it. And here's Frankie going first. Hi, Frankie from the Labour's

of Urquil podcast here. We're hosting a double-bill screening of the best Peter Eustinov Poirot films, Death on the Nile and Evil Under the Sun. At Picture House Central on Sunday the 12th of July, there will also be a live podcast recording with special guests. Tickets are on the Picture House website. We'd love to see you there. Thank you, Frankie. Nicely recorded. Very good. Secondly, here's Catherine. Hello, Simon and Mark. It's Catherine here from Dr. Jazz and the Cheshire Cat's Big Band. On Saturday the 11th of July, we're presenting a big band movie music concert at the beautiful Art Deco, Stockport Plaza Cinema, with music ranging from the Golden Age of Rogers and Astaire right up to Whiplash. It will be loads of fun and will be finished before the football starts.

Tickets are available from the Stockport Plaza now. Yeah, it's a very good point. Anyone, because England played the next game on Saturday evening, anyone has got something planned or a big show or something. They're all having to make slight adjustments. Catherine, thank you very much indeed. And thanks to Swell Village. More details on our show notes.

That's it for this week. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh and Heather. The producer was Dom and the redactor was Simon Paul. In Take 2, we're directing you to the Overflow Carpark for more chat about current film releases. And if you've enjoyed what you've heard so far, plenty more waiting for you over in Take 2,

where we head to the Overflow Car Park for extra reviews, I think I've said this already, and the five-question film club. Plus questions, shmestians, in which this week we're asked, what films do I love that Mark hates? And why do the lights remain off for the entire credits, sometimes, but not always?

You can get Take 2 ad-free, along with the full back catalogue, and the chance to vote on future episodes by signing up to our Patreon. just searched Kermot of Mayo Patreon and join the church. Mark, what is your film of the week? What do you think it is? I think it's going to be Moana. It is Moana. Boom. And don't forget people of Bristol. We will be at the Bristol beacon on December the 6th, if you can bear to think about Christmas. Tickets are on sale via the link in the show notes. We'll be back next week with,

so I'm not here next week, but Ben Bailey Smith will be doing a far better job. Although the interview that I've done with Christopher Nolan, that will be going out next week. And Mark's review of The Odyssey. Mark has seen The Odyssey. I have seen The Odyssey. So I won't be here to pronounce. And I probably signed a thing that means I can't say anything about it until it comes out. I have two words to say about The Odyssey that I think don't break the embargo. Okay. Samantha Morton. Can I say Peak Cinema? Would that break the embargo? I think they'll let you do it. Okay. Well, that's my review in two weeks. words. So that's next week. Mark's review of the Odyssey, Chris Nolan interview, and Ben is going to be

here. I will bestow a year's ultra membership to our correspondent of the week, which I will say, let's say Sarah in Bristol, who will be coming to the show in December and who missed out last time because she'd fallen over and slipped two discs. So she had enough pain, so we'll give her a little bit of fun by giving her a year's ultra membership. Such joy that we can pass out. Thank you very much indeed for listening. Take two has landed alongside this one.