Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Asif Kapadia & Joe Sabia, Federer: Twelve Final Days, Green Border, The Exorcism & The Bikeriders

Episode Date: June 20, 2024

This week’s guests are documentarian Asif Kapadia and videographer Joe Sabia, the co-directors of ‘Federer: Twelve Final Days’, an intimate look at the tennis legend as he approaches his retirement.   Mark also gives his take on the film, as well as reviewing ‘Something in the Water’, a thriller which sees five girlfriends, reunited for a destination wedding, get stranded in open water, finding themselves in a fight for their lives against circling sharks and the elements; and ‘The Exorcism’, a horror that sees Russell Crowe play a troubled actor who begins to exhibit disruptive behaviour while shooting a horror film, causing his estranged daughter to wonder: is he slipping back into past addictions or is there something more sinister at play?   The big review of the week is 'The Bikeriders’, Jeff Nichol’s long-awaited, star-studded crime drama about a Midwestern motorcycle club’s evolution from a gathering place for local outsiders to a sinister gang.  Timecodes (relevant only for the Vanguard - who are also ad-free!):  05:44 – Green Border Review 11:54 – Box Office Top Ten 26:54 – Asif Kapadia Review 39:10 – Federer Twelve Final Days Review 42:49 – The Exorcism Review 51:20 – The Bikeriders Review You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo   EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee!  A Sony Music Entertainment production.     Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts    To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail]  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Your teen requested a ride, but this time not from you. It's through their Uber Teen account. It's an Uber account that allows your teen to request a ride under your supervision with live trip tracking and highly rated drivers. Add your teen to your Uber account today. It occurred to me when my plane landed in Copenhagen that you and I were in different parts. Oh no, Finland isn't, it's not part of Scandinavia, is it? No, it's part of, well, we were in the Lapland part of Finland, which is part of, I was in the Arctic Circle, I know that. You're in the Nordics.

We're all in the Nordics together, but you weren't in Scandia, I don't think. Anyway, how did it go? It was great. I mean, it's really weird. Have you seen the Midnight Sun before? I have not, no. So we got there, so we flew to Helsinki and then we flew on and then we drove on. We seem to have been traveling for kind of forever. And when you get there, this is the Midnight Sun Festival and it's

the Dodge Brothers were playing, we're doing a live accompaniment to City Girl, a Murnau film. And Alfonso Cuarón was there. He was really lovely. And Alicci Rovack was there. She was really, really lovely. And we talked about the story that Josh O'Connor sent about sending a letter to her written with just her name in Italy. And then, you know, he did it again. She said the second letter did arrive. Yeah, his story is the second letter did arrive. And then Leos Carracks was there, who was very French. His answer to everything was ugh. But literally at midnight, the sun is shining like a super trooper and it's really, really bizarre because it's bright, bright sunlight at midnight.

So we were there for just over 48 hours and I think any more time I would have gone completely mad. I loved it. The festival was fantastic. I found it annoying because I sleep very badly and the sun was coming up in Copenhagen about four in the morning and I hadn't managed to get to sleep. It's very depressing when everything is getting light already. I kept thinking about that Chris Nolan film Insomnia, which of course is a remake of another film in which the whole point is it's the land of the midnight sun and

no one can sleep because it's just day, all day, every day. Yeah, I think that might drive you crazy. Yeah. I think I mentioned drive you crazy. Yeah. I think I mentioned before, one of the times we were in Iceland, we were getting a pizza for like 500 pounds, and the woman who was serving us was Australian, and she'd married an Icelandic guy, and she was just, she was doing a nut really,

because you can't imagine two countries from further extremes, I think they were just giving up and moving to Australia, but wow, there's a comparison. Anyway, here we are doing another one of our fantastic shows together. What are we lining up for Mutual Entertainment? It's a packed show. We have reviews of the bike riders. You interviewed the director last week. We have The Exorcism, which is the latest Exorcist adjacent offering. We have Green Border, which is a new movie by Agneska Holland. And we have our very special guest.

There's an interesting sports doc come out called Federer, 12 Final Days. We were interested in it because it's co-directed by Asif Kabadia, who's been on the show quite a few times before, and this guy Joe Sabir. So they've co-directed it between them. It's a new Roger Federer documentary called Federer 12 Final Days. You'll never guess what it's about, but it's like a mystery for later. And in our premium bonus content, Mark, what are you doing? Yeah, there's a new shark attack movie. so we'll be reviewing something in the water. There's something, incidentally, is a shark, just so you know. Why didn't they just say shark in the water?

Yeah, I know, I know. There's something in the water. It's bitten my leg off. Probably a shark. It's got a fate. Definitely a shark. Also, our recommendation feature, which is weekend watch list, TV movie of the week, bike riders, which Mark has mentioned. We're doing that in one

frame back. Movies with bikers. I mean, there's quite a lot to choose from. Big list. You get ad free episodes of Ben Babysmith and Nimone's Shrink the Box, Chandler Bing, the late Matthew Perry's timeless character drops on Tuesday. Plus we answer your film and non-film related queries in questions and smestians. And if you want, you can get all that via Apple podcasts or head to extra takes.com for non-fruit related devices. Let's see if we can do this together. Because if you are already a Vanguard Easter, as always, we salute you. That was pretty good. That was pretty good. Steph Powell has

been on. Simon and Mark, I know how much Mark gets irritated by mispronunciations of his surname. Which is true. Where are we going? Because it's usually commode rather than commode. So imagine my response, says Steph, when I heard these two Australian podcasters, while having a conversation about the career of James Corden, describe your scathing review of the first Peter Rabbit film. Here it is.

This is a bit of a weird one, but stay with us. Mark Komodi, a British film critic, offered his review of Peter Rabbit live on air shortly after its release. In his review, Mark said the film featured the almost instantly irritating voice of James Corden. Now this story, just stay with us. Well, he also argued that the film disrespected the source material so highly that it shouldn't have even been called Peter Rabbit. What should it have been called according to Mark Komodi? Mark Komodi wanted it to be renamed Irritating Rabbit, voiced by James Corden.

Safe to say, reviewer Mark hated this film and was not remotely impressed by James Corden's performance in it. So, I mean, I'm slightly baffled, but Commodi is really weird because Australians would realise, surely, that having an E at the end of a name, it then means that you pronounce the other vowel separate. It doesn't mean that it's, it's not an I, is it? It's not an Italian name. Have you ever been a Commodi before? Actually, weirdly, yes. I mean, it's a really strange thing. And I think that there are, it's not just them that have pronounced it like that. I've heard other people say Commodi,

and I've said exactly what you've said. Why? It's like surely mode. The mode bit is the easiest part of the name. I know when I first met Bill Blatty, who I met and I'm very good friends with, I had to correct because he said Kermode the first time we ever met. Really? He's Blatty with a Y. It's got a Y on the end. So that's why I had to do that work. I know. It's like I should have said, ah yes, Mr. Blatty. Crazy. Yeah. It's really, really weird. People can do anything, but they can't do Kermit. And I said it a million times. It's like Kermit the frog. The emphasis is on the first syllable. And the easiest way of explaining that is that it's a Manx name and it is a Manx derivation of

McDiamet. And actually, originally in the island, when my grandmother was in the island, she was referred to as Mrs. Kermit. So Kermit and Kermit are as close. That's the way of thinking about it. So you'd rather be, if anything, get closer to Kermit rather than Komodi. Komodi or Komode, yes, because as my mother used to say, God bless her. Actually, I won't repeat what my mother used to say because it was unrepeatable, but it was, don't say that. Okay. All right. As a quote't, that was a bit disappointing.

Um, why don't you say it and then they can birdsong it? No, cause they won't. I, and I, and I don't, I don't, I don't want to know. It's a, it's probably some of these, if my mom was here now, she'd say, don't you dare tell that side of the, I ever use that language. Her voice is in your head. Commanding you still. Correspondence of Kermit and Maeve.com.

Okay, tell us something that's out and interesting. Will Barron Okay, Green Border is the new film by Agnieszka Holland, who's a Polish filmmaker behind Europa Europa, Secret Garden, Angry Harvest. So, this is a Polish-French-Czech Belgian co-production, premiered at Venice last year, where it won a special jury prize. It is set in the swampy forests of the so-called green border between Belarus and Poland during the Belarus-EU border crisis a few years ago. We start on a flight to Belarus where people have been told by Lukashenko that they will have easy passage to the EU. Come here and you have a very, very easy passage you can move through. In fact,

they just pawns in a political war. They're thrown backwards and forwards, literally thrown backwards and forwards across the border by authorities on both sides. Films divide up into chapters. The first one focuses on the family trying to get to Sweden. Another one is on the life of a Polish border guard who's got a pregnant wife but is dealing with refugees who are pregnant, who are being treated appallingly. Another section focuses on activists in Poland who are attempting to help the refugees, another on a woman who gets drawn into the struggle. I mean, it's really, really moving and engaging. The horrific cruelty of the journey is depicted in a way that's utterly convincing, both the natural dangers, the fact that they're

going through forests, swampy forests, where you can get bogged down, you know, there's rain, there's disease. And then the human dangers, the way which they're rounded up by prison guards, almost as if you're watching, you know, border guards, pardon me, almost as if you're watching like a World War II movie, people being rounded up and shipped off beyond barbed wire fences. One scene in which a pregnant woman is thrown over a barbed wire fence, bodies have to be disappeared. The director has said that everything that happens in the film is documented, nothing is invented, but has added that obviously it's a fictionalised construction, it's inspired by real people, but composed. It's shot in black and

white and again, he said the reason that was done was so it was somehow connected to the past, the Second World War documentary-like. Perhaps unsurprisingly, it caused controversy in Poland for its depiction of the border guards' pushback against the refugees and the brutality of their treatment. I mean, at times, it's a film we've talked about before Klymov's Come and See, it really had elements of that. I mean, some scenes from this film will linger in your mind for a long time. And this is also all contrasted with what happened during the Ukraine refugee crisis, suggesting that actually all the talk of these not being people, they're not people,

they're live ammunition that are being sent across the border. Then suddenly that problem seems to disappear under different political circumstances. I would say that at a time when immigration looms so large in forthcoming elections, several forthcoming elections, it is a very timely film to see. It's not an easy watch. It's really well made, it's really moving, it's timely film to see. It's not an easy watch. I mean, it's really well made, it's really moving, it's very, very provocative. And as I said, there are things in it that you will find very distressing. But it is also that reminder that one of the things that film can do, and again, I'm sorry to keep quoting this, but you know, Roger Ebert's thing about cinema is a machine for creating empathy. That is what this film is attempting

to do. It is to create empathy with people whose plight you may not understand, may not even know about. I thought it did so really overwhelmingly. In a weird addendum, just as an insight into the film critic's life, I saw this at 10 o'clock in the morning and it finished at 12.30 and half an hour later I was watching Russell Crowe in The Exorcism and that was a handbrake turn. Yes. I hope you had a relaxing lunch in between. So what is that?

It's a green border is that called? A green border, yeah. And it's really, really powerful filmmaking. Correspondence at cobedomeo.com if you see it and you want to pass on your comments. Mark, what are you doing next? The next thing we're going to be doing is the top 10, I believe, followed by our reviews of The Exorcism, the new film with Russell Crowe and The Bike Riders, which we spoke to the director last week, and our special guests this week. Joe Sabir and Asif Kapadi, who've made Federer 12 final days, which is on the way. have to offer people of all kinds this June. This month, Simon, as festival season approaches, Mubi are hosting some really exciting gems from recent years.

There's Gasoline Rainbow, which is now streaming on Mubi UK. That's the latest from the Ross Brothers who made Bloody Nose Empty Pockets, which you remember I was very, very fond of. Then there's Great Freedom, winner of the Uncertain Regard Jury Prize at the 2021 Cannes Film Festival, and a stirring portrait of gay resistance and resilience in post-war Germany. So that's the Mubi selection of festival gems. What else is there? 21 Can Film Festival and a stirring portrait of gay resistance and resilience in post-war Germany. So that's the Mubi selection of festival gems.

What else is there? Great Freedom is being featured as part of their film collection A Place of Our Own, Queer Spaces on Film. This is a selection of iconic queer titles and you can see such classics as Paris is Burning, which transports us into the houses and ballrooms of the 1980s New York drag and voguing scene. You can try Mubi free for 30 days at at MUBI.com slash Kermit and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free.

This is a paid advertisement from BetterHelp. As a podcast listener, you've heard from us before. Today, let's hear what members have told us. One member said, I would recommend my therapist 1,000 times over. She has truly changed my life. Another member said, the would recommend my therapist 1,000 times over. She has truly changed my life. Another member said, the day after my first session, my friends and family said I sounded like myself again

for the first time in weeks. You deserve to invest in your wellbeing. Visit betterhelp.com to see what it can do for you. That's betterHELP.com. I'm still thinking about you being commodey and unfortunately when that gets mentioned it's going to stick. There will be some people who think it's very funny to use that now. Yes. Simon Poole just pointed out in our headphones that he thinks that in Canada, where what I've always referred to as the Kermode bear is known as the Komode bear. This is the spirit bear, it's a very particular

thing and apparently they say Komode bear. But yeah, just a weird one. Made me appreciate. Sometimes you have to see life in a different way. It takes someone who's suffering to make you realize how nice your life is. No one has ever pronounced my surname incorrectly because there's nothing else you can do with it. No, but they have gone mayonnaise. Yes, they have. There's fun to be had. There's fun to be had.

But there's no mispronunciation. Box Office Top 10, produced by our good friends at CommScore. Number 84, The More. Yeah, I mean, it's a small release, obviously, but I thought it was very, very moody, very sort of big on atmosphere, a good homemade chiller with some very creepy moments. Number 27 is Arcadian. And you put me on the spot last week because you said, why is it called Arcadian? And of course it occurred to me

one of the things that's different between you and me is that I quite often don't think about what a film is called. I just go, I know that's what it is. In fact, in my head, this is probably called Arcadian, Soho screening rooms, 10 a.m. Wednesday. And then I just start watching the film. Arcadian relating to or constituting an ideal rural paradise is what I should have said,

but of course being an idiot, despite the fact I've got a PhD in English, I didn't know what it meant. But it's a post-apocalyptic monster movie, which is at its best when you don't see the monsters. The most low-key Nick Cage performance I've seen in quite a long time. Key Finder on YouTube says, the movie sucks. I hated it. It's boring, slow, Cage looks haggard even when he's supposed to be 20 years younger. Character development is slop from bad writers. Acting sucks in his self-conscious. Not scary, cheesy special effects on a shoestring budget. If they'd spent as much on the Monsters as they did on Cage's salary, it would have

been a better film. So anyway. Yeah, but other than that. Other than that, he had a good time. Number 11, Star Trek 3, the search for Spock, the 40th anniversary 4K reissue. I never thought this was a bad film. I don't quite understand why people did. I always thought it was a fine Star Trek film, but I enjoyed it. It's good to see that people have gone back to see it in the cinema. That's number 11.

I skipped over Texas Chainsaw, by the way, which is at 15, by the way. So that's- Oh yeah, why'd you do that? I love Texas Chainsaw, I'm asking. Why'd you skip over that? That's a great film. Because in the chart, it's not there, but in the second chart it is. So it's not in one bit and it is in the other bit.

Freud's Last Session is at number 10. So much acting. So, so much acting. It's fine, but it is absolutely acting heaven. Wilding is at number nine. This is a documentary. I haven't seen this actually. This is a documentary about the rewilding project at the Neppet State in West Sussex.

I'll try and check it out over the weekend because I've heard good things about it. If you are interested in rewilding, then apparently this is balm for the soul. Mason- This is, in that sense, a weird movie to be in the box office top 10 above Star Trek III and the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. So a documentary about wilding in West Sussex is in the book. Will- Rewilding, yeah. It's a big thing at the moment. Rewilding is a really big thing. I mean, I'm in Cornwall and just up the way from where we are, there's quite a big rewilding project going on. It is definitely of the moment. Sure. But you'd imagine it might be a Channel 4 documentary or something like that rather than a movie hit.

There is a really strange thing going on in UK cinemas that there is something of a dearth of movies that are packing out cinemas. It's a very, very strange period. Full Guy is at number eight, it's also number eight in the States. I enjoyed it very much though, it was a great popcorn movie. It's in its seventh week in the charts, so it is holding on in there. The Watched is at number seven. AKA Watchers, a perfectly fine Shyamalan light production. Nothing particularly new, but nothing particularly terrible about it. Number six here, seven in the States, Furiosa, a Mad Max saga.

I was at the BFI IMAX on Monday doing an MK3D show and there was a massive, massive poster for Furiosa, which of course they were playing in the IMAX there. I said, how's it going down? They said, well, people who come to see Furiosa on the IMAX screens have all been absolutely knocked out by it. Again, I think probably that sort of slightly lukewarm feeling is certainly the people that have gotten the most out of it saw it on a massive, massive screen. Again, I thought it was really decent. I think Anutali Joy is terrific. I like the fact that have got the most out of it saw it on a massive, massive screen. Again, I thought it was really decent. I think Anutely Joy is terrific and I like the fact that it has breathing spaces in it. Number five is the Garfield movie.

And there we are. Well, look, it was half-term a little while ago and so it had its moment in the sun. But a top five film right now is the Garfield movie. Number four and number three in the States is Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes. Well, I've been corrected on this by child number two. First out isn't slow, first out is world building and dad, shut up, what do you know? If is it number three? I think you and I are on the same page with if is that there are things about it that

we like and it's got some good ideas. It's not as good as it should be. The number two and number one film in America and Britain is the same. Number two is Bad Boys Ride or Die. Well, this is exactly as we said, this is why you get another Bad Boys movie, because the numbers add up. They do make money. I mean, the one before was a huge success. Interesting that it's behind Inside Out 2, although of course that's because, you know, anyone can go and see Inside Out 2 and Bad Boys Ride or Die is a different. I didn't think anybody in the world needed or wanted a new Bad Boys movie, but from the box office sums. Okay, that's why. And number one is Inside Out 2. So let me do some correspondence here.

Annika says, good doctors, I'm writing about one of my favorite cinema experiences ever. This Saturday afternoon, as a family of four, including an eight-year-old and a three-year-old, we ventured to a world of cine conveniently located in Sheffield. I had seen Inside Out 1 at the cinema pre-kids. Do you remember a character called Bing Bong? Yeah, in the first film. Yeah, anyway, Anika says I had a Bing Bong related meltdown during that trip. Although this movie was missing a character as lovable as Bing Bong, the whole family still laughed wholeheartedly throughout, particularly at Riley's computer

hero crush and his lame attack moves. This is a movie loved by kids but made more for the adults. In a week of work and personal stress, with anxiety taking over, Joy explaining that she doesn't know how to get rid of anxiety, and that maybe when you grow up you just feel less joy, seeing this film couldn't have been more appropriately timed. We held our children in cuddles as they laughed and we cried. After the film, I spoke to my eight-year-old and explained that that was exactly how I had felt over the previous week, that anxiety was taking over and I just needed to cry, laugh or scream. We needed emotions like sadness,

joy and anger. He understood and I'm grateful to Pixar for making something so complex, so relatable. Also an email from Karenza Stratton, age 13 and a half. Dear fear and loathing, I am a first time emailer but a long time listener. My dad has made me listen to most of the episodes and I started to listen to them. So she's 13 and a half, right? Thank you for emailing Karenza. My family and I have just been to watch Inside Out 2 and all thoroughly enjoyed it.

Unfortunately, we had a bit of havoc getting into the Norwich View Cinema as my older sister had accidentally booked tickets for the Leicester View Cinema, which they were really good at handling and we were able to receive a full refund. But after much toil, we were able to take our seats. Although my dad and mom were a few seats away from my sister and I, we still had an amazing time. As a 13-year-old girl myself, I understood things that Riley felt. A rapid change and feeling things that you can't voice

is a challenging experience. It was visually stunning and a truly breathtaking experience. The previous evening, we watched the first Inside Out film, which my family and I all agree is better, but Inside Out 2 is still a fantastic creation of pixels. Both my older sister and I cried, which is something I normally do not do whilst watching films, apart from Titanic. Thank you so much for reading. We love your laughter lift down with anxiety and up with joy. Karenza Stratton, 13 and a half. Karenza, the laughter lift is on anxiety and up with joy. Karensa Stratton, 13 and a half. Karensa, the laughter lift is on the way. It is.

But anyway, Inside Out 2 is at number one. Well, look, it's wonderful to hear that response. I mean, my feeling about Inside Out 2, and I like it very much, the issue partly is that I think Inside Out is perfect. And as I said last week, there are very few films that are perfect. I think David Cronenberg's Crash is perfect. I think the said last week, there are very few films that are perfect. I think David Cronenberg's Crash is perfect. I think the Texas Chainsaw Massacre is perfect. I think that Some Like It Hot is probably perfect. You know, it's the films in which there is literally nothing, nothing wrong with them at all. I think in the case of Inside Out 2, saying that it's not Inside Out is a bit like saying, well, yeah, okay, but then not everything can be Citizen Kane. But what

I loved about those emails, and particularly that second email, is that sense of connection that the film is having. When I watched it, I wondered whether, you know, is it, it probably makes sense that a film about the complexities of adolescence is more complex than a film about the emotional, you know, roller coaster of childhood. But it does seem from both of those responses that people have had absolutely no trouble just clicking into the, clicking into that complexity.

And honestly, if the film has managed to do that and work across the board, then that's a real achievement. It is an interesting email still on Inside Out 2 and it's an anonymous email. Simon Mark, this film is a revelation. My son is 15 and has autism and learning difficulties. Our home life is hijacked on an almost daily basis by his anxiety. He sees even mild criticism like, can you do the dishes like I asked you as a personal attack and we'll have a meltdown. I've taught him coping strategies, exercise is the most effective, but this is exhausting as you can imagine. I've tried so many times to explain that anxiety is the problem,

but until now it went over his head. We went to see Inside Out 2 together, and it turned out to be an amazing parenting tool. First of all, the hijacking of Riley's emotions, HQ by the anxiety character, spoke to me and made me feel understood. This is what I see all the time. To say I know how Joy felt being chucked out of the console room was an understatement to say the least. But the film came into its own

as a way to discuss my son's anxiety with him. I was able to ask him questions that he understood, such as, which character was at your console when I told you to play football to calm down just before we came to the cinema? And discussing how useful it is to have sadness take over from anxiety. He did not play football, but had a good cry, then announced happily, I'm calm now, mum. Sadness is more likely than anxiety to then let joy back in. Well done, Pixar, for giving me a very concrete way to help my son navigate this stage in his life." Thank you very much for sending that email. I remember when the first one came out, we were talking about they've clearly got their neurology right. And clearly the neurology is right on this one because the experience of families going

to this movie sounds extraordinary. Yeah. And I would say that that email that you've just read out, I mean, that is more important than what any film critic thinks. And that is a perfect example of the film, of the film working absolutely brilliantly. I mean, what a wonderful email, what a fantastic story. And again, I'm sorry, I'm gonna do it again. It is the Ebert thing about empathy. It is, cinema is about life itself. Cinema, it is a part of a conversation that we all have

about how do we negotiate our way through life. And that idea of the thing about anxiety literally hijacking the wrecking crew coming in knocking everything out. And if that then gives you a language with which to have those discussions, then well, there's no higher art. That's the pinnacle of what cinema can do. Okay, and so thank you for getting in touch. Correspondence at kerbenamahe.com and Kerenza, our 13 and a half year old, here's her favourite part of the show. Yes, it's the laughter lift. Hey, hey, Mark.

Are you making a bit of an effort with You Know Who? It's not going very well. She invited me along to a bottomless brunch with a few of her friends last weekend. I mean, who knew that a simple dress code mix- up would end up with the involvement of the local constabulary? I've been looking for... I'm shallow, I thought. I've been looking for quick ways to top up the old coffers, Mark. I had a quick Google a few months ago and ended up ordering a book series called

Full Proof Ways to Scam Your Way to a Fortune. Just £399. I'll tell you if it's any good when it arrives. I think it's going to be delivered tomorrow. I think that was the latest from the very reliable delivery firm. This is a, these are higher quality jokes than usual incidentally. There was a knock on the door in the middle of the night last night. That's why I'm a bit bleary. Mark, I went down and there's a bloke standing there. I don't suppose you can give me a push, he said. Certainly not, I says. It's three o'clock in the morning. So I go back to bed and I exclaimed to the good lady ceramicist what had happened. And she says, you miserable so-and-so, remember that

time when we had a flat tire in the middle of the night and that kind man helped us out. It's your turn to pay it back. Oh, fine, I said and shamed by my own unrighteous morality, I went back down. But he gone I couldn't see him anyway. Hello. Hello. I stage whispered into the dark. Do you still need a push? A voice from the darkness came. Yes, please. Where are you? I said, I'm over here on the swings. I mean, Karensa, I hope you laughed. Anyway, Mark, what's still to come on this fabulous podcast? Well, we have reviews of the Exorcism, Bike Riders, and we have our very special guests. Asif Kapadia and Joe Sabir, who've made that Federer film, on the way.

What was the last thing that filled you with wonder that took you away from your desk or your car in traffic? Well, for us, I'm going to guess for some of you, that thing is Hi, I'm Nick Friedman. I'm Lee Alex Murray. And I'm Leah Prescott. And welcome to Crunchyroll Presents The Anime Effect. It's a weekly news show. With the best celebrity guests.

And hot takes galore. So join us every Friday wherever you get your podcasts and watch full video episodes on Crunchyroll or on the Crunchyroll YouTube channel. Are you the friend who can recognize anime themes sampled by J. Cole, MF Doom and The Weeknd? Don't worry, I'm Lee Alec Murray. And I'm also that person.

I'm Nick Friedman. And I'm Leah President, and we invite you to take your sonic knowledge to the next level by listening to our show, Crunchyroll Presents, The Anime Effect. Learn about how Yeji's latest album was actually born from her own manga. I started off with not even the music.

I started off by writing a fantastical story. manga. Or how 24K Golden gets inspired by his favorite opening themes. Okay, now this week's guests are Asif Kapadia and Joe Sabia. Joe started off as a presenter and journalist for Vogue, but teamed up with Senna, Amy, and Maradona director Asif Kapadia for a candid look at Roger Federer's final 12 days as one of the most successful tennis players of all time. We'll hear a clip in just a second, and then my conversation with Joe and Asif. I think it definitely hit me. Maybe I was going to become emotional at the very end.

Even though I did feel I was solid, you know, through the interviews and everything. Even through the game, I was super relaxed. Then I know. At the end, it was just, you know, it's like, OK, I mean, this is it. You know, kind of what happens next. That's a clip from Federer, 12 Final Days. It's co-directed by Joe Sabia and our old friend Asif Kapadia, Joe and Asif, hello, nice to see you. Nice to see you.

How are you, Asif? I'm really good, good to see you again. So this is, so Federer 12 Final Days, it's clearly tells you in the title precisely what we're looking at, which is the final 12 days of Roger Federer's professional tennis career. How did this story come about? I think it starts with you.

How did this filmed story begin? 2019 is when I met Roger Federer for the first time for this web series I do called 73 Questions on Vogue. I interview celebrities, it's all in one take. And it was at Center Court at Wimbledon. And that was the location I met him. We had a good experience, it was memorable. And I kept in touch with his team over the years.

In September, 2022 rolls around, I finally meet his lead agent, Tony Godzik, and he says, Joe, top secret, but Roger's going to announce his retirement next week via audio message on Instagram. Should we be filming something around this? I'm like, yeah, I think you should. I think you should film something around this.

So we pitched myself on camera, the second cameraman who actually filmed 73 Questions, so Roger's aware of the two of us, and a local sound guy. Three people total. We'll go to his house in Switzerland for the first time, we'll see his family for the first time, we may get an interview with Mirka for the first time in 20 years,

but it's all not going to see the life of his wife. That's his wife, yeah. So eight to 12 minute scope, put together a budget the next day, the next day after that, buying $15,000 of camera gear at B budget the next day the next day after that buying $15,000 of camera gear at B&H photo and a day after that. Well, that's a big purchase That's a big purchase. The credit card was almost maxed out the next day literally Inside of his home filming no prep no time completely

Flying at the seat of our pants and that that's how that is where it starts Yeah, so as if where do you come into the story? I know none of this mind my own business in North London as usual Yeah, as usual working away, and then I get a call saying, you know Would you be interested in doing something on Roger Federer? It's not big tennis person never been to Wimbledon never met Roger Definitely haven't been to his house. Sorry. I never had a bear hug I didn't get a bear hug. I didn't get a bear hug or anything.

And I kind of was like, not sure. And then I get sent a link that I get sent something that Joe had put together. And I didn't have any communication with Joe or anything. And I, the honest truth was, I was doing the washing. I was like, people keep asking me to have you watch that thing yet. And I'm like, I haven't watched it yet. And I was like, people keep asking me to have you watch that thing yet, and I'm like, I haven't watched it,

and I was like, I should watch it, shouldn't I? So I'm watching it, and surprised by how emotional I find it, and it moves me, this material of just like, well, my reading is just like people realizing they're getting old. It's about getting old and realizing your body can't do what you used to do. And I thought that was interesting.

And they asked me to turn it into a feature. And whereas everything I've done before, the biogs are pretty much the full life story. Not with Maradona, actually we framed it around a period of time, but it's still a long period of detailed archive. This one, the archive was the material that Joe shot, in my mind.

That's the archive I'm being given. And it's about a period of time, and I thought in drama, you can make a film about a weekend, or you can make a film about a relationship that lasts for a short time. And I thought, why does everything have to be about everything? And actually, I found it interesting to say,

why don't I do something slightly different, which is just about a short moment in time where you come across this character and you follow them as they realized it's all gonna end soon and his great rivals are in the room with him all getting emotional there's a lot of crying men crying but it's also them realizing yes probably me next isn't it and I thought that was enough so it's quite subtle compared to kind of the scope of the previous one.

Yeah, true. Have you ever been a co-director before, I see? No, do you know the nearest to doing anything like this? And of course that kind of question comes up, oh, why should I be doing it? I'm like, there were two directors because someone shot it and then someone cut it and put it together and turned it into a feature film.

And so the nearest to that was the kind of, I did this ballet with Akram Khan, and he created a ballet and then couldn't perform it, called Creature, and then I came along and shot it, and then turned it into a film, but I'm not a choreographer, I don't know anything about ballet, so we kind of shared a credit, and I thought, and also that film was made quite quickly,

in the middle of the other films, that took me four or five years, and so this film was made quite quickly. So I was like, actually, I actually I'm old enough and mature enough to say I don't have a problem with the fact there's two directors. And actually it's the more honest way of crediting it. It is very early on, so right at the very beginning

where we're getting this statement, which is a very controlled statement, which Roger wants to announce his retirement and we see him recording it and hoping he doesn't well up and so on. There's a little classic kind of family moment. So first of all, he's framed, he's sitting in front of his trophy cabinet and this trophy cabinet is the most beautiful thing you've ever seen.

It is exactly what you would imagine Roger Federer's trophy cabinet to look like. And then his son walks in and his son upsettingly is wearing an Arsenal football top and and Obviously as if as a Liverpool fan you're thinking that's not good, you know, and I'm as a Spurs fan So I'm thinking that's not good. He's a Basel fan. Yeah, I don't think it was good. That's the thing So Roger says what happened to FC Basel and they're thinking that's that's so typical of so many parents saying why you sport in that club I brought you up to sport this team. Of all these days, you walk in,

when these crew are all here, and you walk in wearing bloody arse-knot on videos. Yeah, exactly. I think that's certainly the novelty to start with, is that we are getting insight, exactly as you were saying, Joe, into a very private world. I was fortunate enough to do five live commentary

from Wimbledon for years on Center Court and saw this Incredible athlete this beautiful athlete playing at the very top of his game But you never got any with her when everything was closed everything was controlled So that's what your film gives us I think isn't it you know we are looking behind the curtain from my point of view for the First time yeah, I mean it's not trying to be anything more than the 12 days of his retirement. It's not like anyone is suggesting you need more of more action. Okay, you need more. You need America to say more about that. We need you to go deeper on that.

It's what I love is the purity. It's the subtlety of these parameters of 12 days. And who is it who says in your film, athletes die twice? Great line, isn't it? It is, because that's almost like, that's a book title, that's a film title. Because obviously everybody retires,

everybody stops working, but hopefully everyone retires in the 60s, 70s and 80s. And when you're at the top of your game, the idea of athletes dying twice, that is a great phrase, and that's sort of the drama of your game, the idea of athletes dying twice, that is a great phrase and that's sort of the drama of your film, not just Roger, but then when you get Djokovic and you get Nadal and you get Murray

and they're all thinking, okay, how do I know when to stop? And that's what they're thinking, isn't it? That's his coach who comes up with that line, I think it's a great line, it's like the crux of a film, it's actually it you know journalists you know retire you don't plan to retire if you love what you do filmmakers I'm still start I'm a student you know my heroes are making films in the 70s and 80s I want to carry on making films and then if you're an athlete or a sports

person if you're 25 you could get ACL that could be in your 30s now he's in his 40s but he's still a kid compared to me, you know? And his career's over and you can see, it's like this crisis of what am I going to do now? Doesn't matter how successful. So I found that line, I'm really glad you noticed it, and that's the one that really sticks with me. And that's kind of what it's about.

It's like one day it ends and then what? Do you do it the rest of your life? It's like the strap line on the movie is the poster. You know, Roger Federer, final 12 days, athletes died twice. Or it's actually like a James Bond title. I've never heard anyone quite put it so neatly and succinctly as he does, and it's a great line. Exactly, also the other kind of thing

that kind of goes all the way through your film is the relationship between Federer and Nadal, which I think people kind of have seen that a bit over the years, but it actually means a lot to both men. Yeah, I think people kind of have seen that a bit over the years. But it actually means a lot to both men. Yeah, I think it does. I think him being close to retirement and then officially retiring and having that debrief interview that you see was right after what we all saw on court.

It was one hour before he went back to Switzerland. And what I appreciated was Roger's candor when speaking about his relationship with Rafa, it felt a little bit different that day and what you hear is kind of a new take on his relationship, an emotional one, one that's just so raw and in the moment. So I think for all fans of Fadal, I think they're gonna just appreciate the new fresh perspective that's there as Roger quote unquote

died that day and the day after. So yeah. And for people who switch into tennis occasionally, as if you know that Wimbledon or one of the majors comes up, I think they will watch this film and they'll think, oh yes it is the end of an era. I hadn't really thought of it like that until you frame it like that, until we see all these guys on the stage yes there are the younger players but the top three and then four with Murray this is the end of an era which people will talk about for a long time and that's giving you presumably some drama to work with exactly yeah what you're saying earlier it's a love story I think but his like love story with

tennis and his fans and that's kind of ending his relationship with his wife and she's sort of there through all of this and kind of having to deal with it. Funny, tennis is an odd sport isn't it? Which other sport do you cut to the girlfriend or the wife constantly? It doesn't happen in boxing or necessarily old football or kind of horse riding or something. Tennis, they've got to sit there and there's a cutaway always to the mum, the dad, the coach and I've only seen her looking stressed really towards the end of his career.

And then when you meet her, she comes across very differently. She's quite happy, but you can see the pressure of being the partner. But yeah, what you were saying about the end of the kind of era, absolutely. And the film also kind of subtly then goes off and you see a bit of Borg, you see a bit of McEnroe,

you see a bit of Leiva in this previous era, which I grew up watching. And then you have this present era, which is all coming to the end. And then there's this new generation, you don't know who it is, then maybe people we think are going to be the next person. But again, one injury comes along and everything can change.

So yeah, it is a kind of cycle coming to an end. Asif Kapadia, Joe Sabia, thank you so much for talking to us. Thank you very much. Thank you. Now, what was interesting about that is that we don't often get to talk to sports corporate types. So Joe is obviously very much, you know, that was the end. But Asif is always the kind of the interesting guy, I think, on these matters because he

thinks very broadly. And my instinctive reaction was if Asif is interested in this story, there is something to tell. You could tell that he was thinking, well, this really isn't me. Then he realized that there was an emotional – to use the cliché – there was an emotional arc to the film. I guess the issue is, obviously, if you're a tennis fan or a Federer fan, you're going to find this absolutely essential viewing. Does it go any broader than that? Speaking to you? No, no, it doesn't. No. I mean, look, here's the thing. What I know about tennis and funnily

enough, you know, you were talking about during the five live days doing the show from Wimbledon and I was there, if you remember, and I was doing the film reviews, although what was going on on the court, it was neither here nor there for me. From seeing this documentary, the things you take away, firstly, he seems to be a really, really, really genuine bloke, although interesting that Asif says that there's more to it. You think, oh, okay, so there may be a documentary later on about stuff behind that. He is absolutely devoted to his wife and there was a lovely moment there in the universe when Nasri said, you know, in what other sport do you constantly cut away to the wife or the girlfriend? Of course, that made me think about, you know, why is that we get sexy tennis

in challenges? Because the whole thing is it's like it is played like a kind of menage-a-trois between these two guys on the pitch and then her and the audience. I think as a piece of filmmaking, it is hagiographic because there doesn't appear to be anything. He's doing the right thing at the right time and he's doing it in the right way and he's being incredibly decent. When I came back last night, I said to the good lady professor, her indoors, just give me a heads up on him. She said, well, he's the most amazing tennis player. His tennis playing was balletic. His tennis playing was like dance. He's a really, really decent guy because she knows more about tennis than I do. In a way, I thought I would like to know more about that from the documentary. The documentary is made for people who already know that. As a piece of filmmaking, it felt like the last movement of Return of the King.

It was the longest goodbye. Daria Marianelli's score is just plucking your heartstrings from the moment, from moment one. And the film keeps wanting you to cry. And of course it actually features people crying. And you know, that line about they die twice because it is, you know, everyone's behaving like there's a death going on. I understand all that and it's fine. But I think if you're interested in the sport and you're interested in him and he is clearly, clearly a remarkable and admirable sportsman, then this is a very, very, very loving

tribute. It isn't anything other than that. There were a couple of things that come up in the course of the documentary. One is Roger saying that, I call him Roger, obviously, is that he tried being a bad boy because he thought that's how he was supposed to behave. And there are a couple of clips of him arguing with the umpire. And then he said, oh, you just realized that that wasn't him. And I think, oh, let's pick away at that. That sounds quite interesting, but it's not that kind of film. There is a thing when you were saying, when you were doing Wimbledon, you never got to see behind the behind the velvet rope, behind the curtain.

And here you do. And what you see is, look, he's lovely. He loves his wife. He loves his kids. He loves the sport. He's decent about everybody. I would I would have liked more telling me as somebody who doesn't know why his playing was so brilliant, as opposed to just people saying his playing was so brilliant. On the way, Mark gets annoyed after this. It's Kathy Burke here. Can I ask you something? How do you want to die? Is that a bit forward?

Well, you clearly haven't been listening to our podcast, Where There's a Will There's Awake. Every week I have a natter to some of our favorite people about their fantasy funeral. And my god, we've had some fabulous guests through my deathly doors, including Danny Dyer, Dawn French, and Sir Steve McQueen from Sony Music Entertainment. Where there's a will, there's a wake. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Shrink the Books is back for a brand new season. This is the podcast where we put our favorite

fictional TV characters into therapy. Join me, Ben Bailey-Smith, and our brand new psychotherapist, Nimone Metaxas. Hi Ben, yes, this before we're done will Sony Music Entertainment Original podcast. Two movies to discuss before we're done will lead on to the bike riders in a moment, but let's do Exorcism because you've clearly enjoyed it so much. The Exorcism. Last year we had Russell Crowe in the entertainingly stupid The Pope's Exorcist in which he played Vatican exorcist father, Gabriele Mort, fighting the devil on a Vespa. And they really missed a trick, not calling that film Christ on a Bike, because

at least that film was funny. And I was involved in a documentary about a Mort, which Friedkin made, and believe me, he was nothing like Russell Crowe, but that film was stupid fun. So now film was stupid fun. So now there's another Russell Crowe exorcist movie, a peculiar sort of mash-up of cinematic self-referential schlock, it's produced by Kevin Williamson, and meandering po-faced angsty tedium. This is co-directed and written by Joshua John Miller, who is the son of Jason Miller, who played Father Damien Carys in The Exorcist. He's made this with only 14. Obviously, there's a connection to The Exorcist. The film's been described by the studio as a film that reverently nods to a classic horror while adding a fresh twist. A fresh twist. Okay, fine. So Russell Crowe really stretches himself. He plays a washed-up,

paunchy actor, Antony Miller, get it? Miller, get it? Who gets the chance to play the exorcist in a horror film remake, which is called The Georgetown Project, get it? About a possessed girl, get it? And a priest who has to perform the exorcism. He gets the job after the previous person who had the job has a brush with devilish forces, so he gets it because of tragedy. He goes for the audition. Adam Goldberg has fun as the director. He fumbles his lines and he can't do anything, but the director wants him because he was an altar boy as a kid and maybe something terrible happened. Then he famously became a washed up drunk whose wife died and then he crawled into a bottle and all this stuff happened.

Now he's reunited with his daughter, Ryan Sickens, who's been expelled from school, refuses to call him dad, but agrees to be his PA on the movie because I think the script needs them to be together in the same scene and otherwise it's not gonna work. David Hyde Pierce is the real life priest who's brought in to oversee the filming because, you know, in The Exorcist they really had a priest on set. And Sam Worthington, I'm not quite sure what he does because he's barely in it, but he

just turns up and then goes away. Anyway, the role of being the priest gets under crow's skin. The next thing, he's gone all demonic and all ranty and ravy and threatening and bedraggled, you know. So, like I said, big stretch for Russell. Here's a clip. Where are you going to go? You don't have a school. You don't have a mother. All you have is me. Sleep it off.

Is that any way to talk to your dad? Get out. Get out. Get the f*** out! Get out, Tony, get out! My name is not Tony. So, look, here's the question is why on earth would Russell Crowe do this straight after doing the Pope's exorcist? The answer is he didn't. The principal photography on this film happened in 2019, five years ago, okay? The production then was shut down because of COVID and didn't get completed. Everyone forgot about it. I think probably Russell Crowe thought maybe it had gone away. It only got completed in 2023, by which time he'd done The Pope's Exorcist. The reason it got completed was

because The Pope's Exorcist did $77 million, $80 million on a budget of thrumpets. Probably somebody thought, and they were going to finish it and then put it out on streaming services, but there's nothing out in cinemas at the moment that's really doing any business. So somebody went, oh, Russell Crowe, Exorcist movie. Yeah, fine. Let's finish that off, take it out of streaming, stick it into cinemas. And that is pretty much why it is that we now have the exorcism in cinemas. There is no other reason for it to be there because firstly, plot makes no sense at all. It includes people falling out of windows and then immediately being fine, certain death, but then they're not dead. I mean,

I kept expecting one of the characters, and I don't know which one, any of them, to wake up and go, oh, it was all a dream, because that way it would have explained why none of it made any sense at all. The main demonic power on display is the ability to turn the lights on and off, which let's be honest is not that, also to make loud banging noises. There is the film within the film that isn't the exorcist, but is the exorcist, but isn't the exorcist for legal reasons, is the least convincing depiction of a film on film since Woody Allen's dismal rainy day in New York. You remember the film for which Timothy Chalamet apologized for working with Woody Allen, but didn't apologize for being crap in the film.

The whole thing about Russell Crowe's character is that, you know, he can't remember his lines, he can't do his scenes, he can't do anything, but the director wants him because, oh, wow, there's all this, you know, there's this stuff going on in his life. And you think, oh, well, I don't know, maybe that maybe that connects to all the ooga booga around what happened with the Exorcist. The point at which they finally shut the film down is a point after which he, as an actor, has gone so crazy that he literally smashes his face repeatedly on a table. And instantly that isn't a plot spoiler because it's actually in the trailer.

Then when you get to the Exorcism sequence, what they've done is they've ripped off the exorcism from Exorcist III, which if you know anything about this is the thing that shouldn't be in Exorcist III. So it's like it's a ripoff of a reshoot. Pope's Exorcist was like high cap hooey. This is full of arts. Oh no, it's about character. It's about the legacy of this staff that he's dealing with. Russell, we'd like you to look like you're really resting with your inner demons because it's not really about demons. And then suddenly go, oh, actually it is about demons. Remember the new exorcist believer in which Ellen Burston gets her eyes stabbed out with a crucifix. Well,

this goes, yeah, fine, because crucifixes are stabby things. So, this adds stabby crucifix and then catching fire. And all this stuff is going on. And I'm just watching this thinking, I can't believe how bad this is. And then I watched an interview with the filmmakers who said, yeah, it's really to do with coming to terms with the legacy of the film and the way in which we're all dealing with our personal dealings. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. It's a way of cashing in.

There's a film called The Exorcist, did really well. Here's a film called The Exorcism. It's one letter different. It's one letter different. But so therefore, if it takes like one quintimillionth of a bit of water, we'll get away with it. And like I said, five years old was going to go straight to streaming wasn't even going to be finished. Russell Crowe presumably hoped that he would never see the light of day because lordy, lordy Miss Claudia, he's rubbish in it. And he's, it's not even a stretch roll. It's like Russell, washed up, angry, annoyed actor, go. Oh, and

incidentally, do it as a priest. It's absolute. I mean, it's just, they should put it on a triple bill with this, Exorcist the Beginning and Exorcist Believer as the triple bill of films about which the people that made them have said, yeah, well, they reference a classic, but then they put a fresh twist on it. The fresh twist being that this time it stinks. It stinks to high heaven. I waited all the way through to the end of the credit incidentally to see whether there was a gag reel, you know, but there wasn't. Okay.

So let's not bother with that, but let's bother with the bike riders, because that's out this week. Last week we spoke to Geoff Nichols, we talked a lot about the poster and about how gorgeous everybody is. I don't think it's the movie a lot of people will be expecting once they look at the poster, they might be thinking one thing. Anyway, tell us about bike riders. Okay, well tell me this, what do you think they might be expecting from the poster? I think they might be expecting more of a gang, warring gangs in love with their motorbikes. The thing is, they're not really a gang.

They're a team, really. They're a club. Anyway, there's lots of biking and there's lots of gorgeous people and there's a little bit of stabby stabby. Yeah. Okay. So, new film from Geoff Nicholson, who was the guest on last week's show. lots of biking and there's lots of gorgeous people and there's a little bit of stabby stabby. Yeah, okay. So new film from Jeff Nichols, who was the guest on last week's show, he did a great interview with him. His shotgun story is mud, take shelter, loving. And if you haven't listened to that interview yet, go back and listen to it because it's great. It really, really sets the film up. It's a project he's been developing for a couple of decades.

It's based on a book, which is photos from the mid-60s of Chicago outlaws, Danny Lyon, who's played in the film by Mike Faisley, who sort of, you said, he's not quite a narrator, but he's an interrogator. So essentially what it is, is it's a film based on a book of photographs for which the text was interviews with some of the subjects of the photographs. It's not like Hunter Thompson's Hells Angels, which is much more a really deep dive into that stuff. In fact, in the world that's explored in Lion's Book, they're not really a gang. They're a motorcycle club who then later on go on to become something

different. I mean, the story of the film spans from 1959 to 1973, but it jumps around. We see the central character of the journalist interviewing Jodie Comer's Cathy, who's recounting her time with the Vandals, who are this motorcycle chapter set up by Tom Hardy's Johnny. And she's then having a relationship with Benny, played by Austin Butler. And the film follows the rise of the gang from sort of a beer drinking motorcycle club, like a social club, really, into something that is then taken over by a new generation who come in and make it something completely different. Here's a clip. You and me, kid. You and me, you crazy... Tom Hardy's voice is... So that's Tom Hardy and Austin Butler. We did talk a lot about accents actually in the interview, so do go back and listen to that, but that's a nice

clip. Well, what the director says, of course, is that what Tom Hardy is doing is Brando in The Wild One, because on what we see is his character, who's in fact this kind of family man. He's got a job, he's got a wife, he's a truck driver, but he's watching television and he watches The Wild One and he sees Brando do the thing about, you know, what are you rebelling against? What do you got? And then he's essentially doing an impression of Brando. Meanwhile, Austin Butler was doing the impression of James Dean. And so they're the sort of central things.

And one of the things that the film is about is that these people are inspired by pop culture mythology, more than they are inspired by actually, you know, the biker gang thing. And I think you have to understand that that's really what it's about. It's a love story with the third part and perhaps the most important part being Cathy, Jodie Comer.

She's the person who narrates and leads us through the story as she is interrogated by the photojournalist. Jeff Nichol said this thing about the Tom Hardy character, he's an impostor, he's somebody playing a part, playing a role, playing Brando. The whole film is about people playing roles. When you said, I don't think it's going to be the kind of film that perhaps people who see the poster think it might be, here's what it is. The film has something of the leatherware feel of Cruising, William Friedkin's film from 1980, which is a very controversial movie,

but one of the things that it gets absolutely right is the sound and the crunch of the leather. It's a very tactile film. But the greatest there is to Cathy Bigelow's The Loveless, which is the feature that she co-directed before she made Near Dark. And The Loveless, you asked the director whether or not he'd ever thought about doing this in black and white. And he said, no, the color is important. Interesting thing about The Loveless, similarly doesn't have much of a plot. It's really all to do with, you know, it's almost like a kind of photo montage made into a film. The Loveless

for years toured on the late night double bill circuit with a razorhead, David Lynch's razorhead, which is in black and white. And I think that there is something about that period that makes it sit well with that monochrome. But I think the film had to be in color. But I also think that if you know The Loveless, you'll know it's not a multiplex movie. It is a late night, 11 o'clock at the Phoenix or, you know, one o'clock at the Scarlet movie. And I think that what's going to happen with this is if people go, having seen the poster, maybe seen the trailer and thought, okay, it's going to be, you know, it's action and fighting. I mean, there is a certain amount of fighting. They're not going

to get that. The touchstone is if you've seen Catherine Bigelow's The Loveless, this is the kind of, you know, the twin movie to that. It's all about atmosphere, it's all about period, it's all about setting. Jodie Comer is brilliant, and I mean, she's got a lot of talking to do, and she does it in a way that's really kinetic and really keeps things moving. And her narration, I mean, I know it's not quite technically narration, is the most sort of forward moving part of the film. You mentioned yourself that there's a shot in it

when you're first introduced to Austin Butler and the camera kind of creeps up from behind. He's about to get a beating because he won't take his colors off. And then you see his face and it's Austin Butler and you go, you know, yeah, he's got charisma and then some and the way in which he looks and the way in which he looks alongside Tom Hardy and the way in which they talk to each other without really, I mean, Austin Butler's got very little to say. I mean, very, very little to say. So it is, it's a film of mood. It's a film of atmosphere, as I said, it's the leather feel of cruising, it's absolutely the ambience of Loveless. It is not a Hells Angels on wheels. It's not the Warriors.

It is not the Warriors. Absolutely. If you're thinking of Scala classics to compare this to, it's not the Warriors, it's the Loveless. Now for me, that's a good thing. I don't know what everyone else will make of it because I think that although this might not do very well at the box office now, I can imagine in five years time it would be a kind of late night classic. That's the end of take one. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Lily, Gully, Vicky, Zachy, Matty, and Bethy. The producer was Jimmy. The redactor was Simey Wimey.

Mark, what is your film of the week? Well, because I think you and I are sort of in harmony about it. So I'm going to go for the bike riders. And, you know, I just, I love the way, I love the way it looks. And I wish I could make my hair do that. Yes. And I think a lot of people will I wish I could make my hair do that. Yes. And I think a lot of people will go, can you make my hair like Austin Butler, please? Take two has already landed alongside this podcast full of joys for subscribers and bonus

content and all that kind of stuff. Thank you very much, Steve, for listening. Correspondence at Kermit and Mayo.com. We'll see you soon. like trainers, fitness pros, fodders to back me up? That's crypto on Kraken, powerful crypto tools backed by 24-7 support and multi-layered security. Go to kraken.com and see what crypto can be. Non-investment advice, crypto trading involves risk of loss. See kraken.com slash legal slash ca dash pru dash disclaimer

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