Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Best birdsong ever from Robert Carlyle

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

Begbie himself, and surely a frontrunner for British cinema’s scariest man (on screen only, we might add), is our guest this week—it’s Robert Carlyle. This time he’s playing staunchly moral councilor Sam Hagen in new Netflix drama ‘Toxic Town’. Penned by Jack Thorne (of course), and with a cracking cast of Jodie Whittaker, Aimee Lou Wood, Rory Kinnear and more alongside Carlyle, it tells the true story of the Corby poisonings. Following the closure of the town’s steelworks, mismanagement of toxic waste begins to affect the health of local mothers and their babies—who are dismissed by the council and must fight for justice. Robert unpacks his character, and gives us the screen zinger of the year that had us reaching for the birdsong button... Mark reviews ‘Toxic Town’, as well as Indian feelgood flick ‘Superboys of Malegaon’. The Hindi language film follows a gang of amateur filmmakers whose shoestring budget spoofs of their favourite Bollywood hits become a cult phenomenon. Plus, Gia Coppola’s ‘The Last Showgirl’--the story of a Las Vegas dancer’s fading glamour, starring Pamela Anderson in a critically acclaimed comeback performance. All the usual box office madness and top takes from our emergency mailers too. Don’t miss it! Timecodes (for Vanguardistas listening ad-free): Superboys of Malegaon Review: 09:24 Toxic Town Review: 44:10 Robert Carlyle Interview: 30:19 Laughter Lift: 49:30 The Last Showgirl Review: 55:53 You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] And to find out more about Sony’s new show Origins with Cush Jumbo, click here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey Simon, there's a bit of an international theme to the Oscars this year, wouldn't you say? Explain? Well, you've got Avian Brody emigrating to America, you've got Rape Finds in the Vatican, you've got Zoe Saldana hunting singing gangsters in Mexico. I know what you're going to say. Here we go, you're going to mention the substance again somehow. Exactly, a French-British-American body horror co-production. Wherever those international titles are taking me or wherever I'm tuning in from, NordVPN can help me unlock

geo restricted films and enhanced streaming. It keeps my online activity safe with encryption and threat protection. And it's the fastest on the market providing smooth streams with no lagging. What's more it's available in 111 countries. How many Oscar contenders does that cover? I think every single one of them probably. Unwrap a huge discount on NordVPN by heading to NordVPN.com slash take plus with our link, you'll get an extra four months free on the two year plan. And it's risk free with Nord's 30 day money back guarantee. Check the link in the description. I know I will. I'm going to start with a couple of book recommendations, Mark.

Hello, Simon. Hello. Obviously the number one choice is Black Tag. However, I have my copy right here. I have my copy right here. Excellent. It looks well-thumbed. Here's my other book recommendation, which is a proper

recommendation. This is Dark Salt Clear by Lamorna Ash. Life in a Cornish Town by Lamorna Ash. Okay, great. I read to you from page 11. Up until the 16th century, Mausel, not Newlin, was the principal fishing port in the southwest. In 1595, a Spanish naval squadron landed at Mausel and sacked it, burning down almost every building before continuing their violence upon the coast of Newlin and Penzance. Mausel never quite recovered from its destruction. Newlin's port from where boats blah blah blah and so on then became

dominant. I read that and I thought, oh right, there you go. Basically, it's a fantastic book. It's really, really beautifully written and it's all about your neck of the woods. Interestingly enough, the oldest building in Mausel, which is the Kegwin, still has dents in its stonework from where the Spanish cannonballs struck it during the Sacking. Wretched Spain. Yes, I know. It's the last time that England was landed, invaded, you know, sacked. It was the last time. England was landed. Okay, two things wrong with that sentence. No, you know what I mean?

I don't know what's the correct naval term. It was the last time that a foreign power successfully, well, they didn't successfully, they landed, they sacked everything, and then they left. Invasion is fine. Also, I did a number of book talks in Cornwall, and the opening line of one of the Itch books says, Cornwall, England. And I was in big trouble because of the Cornish nationalists who like to pretend that they're not part of England. Anyway, later on in the same book, and I'll stop very shortly, which I didn't know, there was a time when Cornwall and Devon was an

island. Did you know that? No. Yes. It's a great granite ship drifting through the seas and it wasn't until the Cretaceous area that Cornubia was bound to the rest of the British Isles. And that's your part of the world. You used to live on an island. And then there's all the leoness and then there's, you know, we're all connected. And then anyway, you'll love this book. You'll love this book.

You should definitely get it. Oh yes, fantastic. I have a birthday coming up. Okay, you can have my copy. Thank you. I'll sign it as well. That's very good. You didn't write it. When we finally stop talking about books and start talking about movies, what are you going to be going on about?

Interesting week. We have Superboys of Managowan, which is a really interesting film inspired by documentary. The Last Showgirl with Pamela Anderson in an acclaimed role, and Toxic Town, which is a new four-part True Life series for which we have our special guest. Yes, Beg B himself, Mr Robert Carlisle, is going to be with us. Very entertaining conversation with Robert Carlisle coming up. Plus in take two, some bonus reviews, for example, Par Exemple. The Summer with Carmen, which is a new Greek feature, and The Big Lebowski, which is back in cinemas as a cult classic. We will revive the discussion of

why it is that I have never really got The Big Lebowski. When you say it's a new Greek feature, is that a new feature on the show, which is going to be largely Greek theme? That's right. Yes. It's literally a section entirely dedicated to new films from Greece. Okay. Well, that sounds as though it could be quite fine. It is the centre of the greatest wine industry in the world, apparently.

The world centre of wine should be considered to be Greece. It's also the cradle of culture. Surely that's what we should all be saying. Also in take two, special edition, we have the TV movie of the week. We have one frame back related to The Last Showgirl. We're discussing comeback roles plus film and non-film questions. In questions, Shmestjian's, including this week, is Paul Verhoeven the new Nostradamus and various other top questions? You can get it all via Apple Podcasts or go to extra takes.com for non-fruit related devices. It's never been a better time to become a Vanguard Easter. Free offer now wherever you get your podcasts, so come and enjoy the nonsense. That's what I'm just, that's what it's like when

people put food down in front of you in a restaurant and they go enjoy. It's like, all right. We'll get out anyway. Also you get access to the BAFTA reaction that we did. We did a BAFTA show, we did a SAG show this Monday and there is an Oscars chat coming up this Monday. There's never been a better time to sign up and become one of the Vanguard. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter as always, and as ever, we salute you. Imagine the Oscars one is going to be a biggie because I'm going to stay up all night and watch the whole thing. So by the time we do the recording, I am going to be absolutely frazzled.

Yeah. So it might be five minutes to be perfectly honest. Absolutely frazzled means it'll be an hour and a half. Now this time last week we were having a conversation. Actually, when was it? I'm not sure. When did we, when were we talking about Jeremy does voices from TikTok and Christopher Walken doing all the voices from Harry Potter. When did that come up in conversation?

Oh, well, we did talk about Christopher Walken doing voices on the BAFTA podcast, not the BAFTA podcast, the SAG podcast in relation to Gillian Anderson. Okay, anyway, I don't know. Anyway, so here's the thing. Here's the thing. We thought you would like to hear Jeremy does voices from TikTok, which I, I'm not a part of because I don't want to give any of my information to the Chinese communist party. Jeremy does voices from TikTok doing Christopher Wolkin doing all the

voices from Harry Potter. Let's see how this goes. What is it? He's going to sacrifice himself. No, run! You can't! There must be another way. Do you want to stop Snape from getting that stone or not? Harry, it's you that has to go on. I know it. Not me, not Hermione. You. You know, happiness can be found even in the darkest of times if only one remembers to turn on the light. Great.

It's actually there's a switch by the door. Harry, did you put your name in the Goblet of Fire? Did you ask one of the older students to do it for you? Yeah, absolutely. Sure. Great. Good. I take your word for it. It's good. Now I'm personally disappointed because I think the standard was set by you when you were doing your Gillian Anderson not being sozzled voice, which sounded like this. It was Gillian Anderson presented an award at the SAGs and it was her and David Duchovny and they made a joke and the joke fell a little bit flat and Gillian Anderson went, it's

hilarious. That's right. Now, I have to say that's as good as Jeremy does voices from Give Your Money to the Chinese Communist Party. So I think Mark does voices is a new feature whereby Mark can do any dialogue from any movie as long as it's either Christopher Walken or Woody Allen. Or Gillian Anderson doing Christopher Walken after a night on the tiles. Or Werner Herzog. So that's the choice. Yeah. The best Herzog is of course Sanjeev. Sanjeev does the very best Herzog. I'd like

to take this opportunity to remind everybody of Sanjeev doing Werner Herzog as a sat-nev. Do you remember that? Oh yeah, yeah. Sanjeev is just one of, he is a national treasure. He is a national treasure. Hello, Sanjeev. And hello to Jason Isaacs. I wonder if he'd accept a knighthood, Sanjeev. I think he should do. It sounds right. I mean, he was King Arthur in Spamelot and I think he probably, he probably does deserve a knighthood. Yeah.

Good. Sir Sanjeev. Take it. Sir Sanjeev. Sir Sanjeev of North London. So from now on that, to us, you're a knight in shining armour. Sir Sanjeev of North London. Knight of the round table. You sing when they're able. Oftentimes they're given rhymes that are quite unseen able.

Correspondence at covanandmayo.com should you wish to be a part of this entertaining show. So let's get on with the movie. There's a box office top 10 coming up, of course, and some Robert Carlyle. Tell us something that's out and something that's new and something that we might want to pay for. Okay. Superboys of Malegaon, which is an Indian Hindi language film directed by Reema Khakhti. It's inspired by a 2008 documentary called Supermen of Maligun. That doc followed the residents of this city in Maharashtra, which is beset by poverty. The residents are making good by making spoof remakes of Bollywood movies.

The documentary is kind of a journey through that process of them making movies. And I hadn't seen the doc. I read the Times of India review, which said Superman of Maragon is the celebration of the inherent fantasy of any average human being who dreams of being either a star or a star maker, irrespective of their eligibility. So something of a kind of be kind rewind vibe. So this is now a feature film, retelling of that real life story, obviously fiction lies taking inspiration from the life of Nasir's Shaikh and other amateur filmmakers in the Indian city of Malegaon. I'm going to play you a trailer and I'll just translate the trailer in advance so you know what's being said. So basically what you hear is he says, let's make a movie here in Maligaon. Have you lost it?

You're a loom worker. I sell dry fruit. Farrokh is a sad penniless writer. You're not a writer, you're just strange. And you have been unemployed forever and we are going to make a movie. Yes, why can't we? That was the translation.

Here's the clip. I have a very dangerous idea. Let's make a movie here. I'll be there. Have you become a kid? You're a labourer in a loom. My date shop. You're a bad guy. Not bad, but weird. You've been unemployed since birth.

We'll make a movie. Let's try. So essentially, young filmmaker is introduced to the art of editing films to remove illicit content by use of VCR duplication. He soon figures out that using that same technique, he can splice movies together and he starts creating these mashups in which he takes scenes from old silent films like Buster Keaton films and cuts them into modern movies. These mashups are exhibited in local cinema. They do great because every scene is a winner,

every scene is a hit. However, then the police clamp down and say, this is piracy. So he and his friends decide that what they need to do is to start from scratch and make their own movies, which they do. And they get local support behind and in front of the camera. There's a writer, a version of whom

features in the documentary, finds the process absolutely heartbreaking because so much of what he writes doesn't make it to the screen and he's got these dreams of writing something and the films are very, very different. But the film at first looks like a disaster, but then they play it locally, it becomes a local hit, everybody thinks it's great, and then it becomes more successful, the director swans off to more successful climbs, leaving his friends behind, but eventually returns to repay an old friend by giving him the role of a lifetime. So it's terrifically uplifting stuff. I mean, obviously it's fictionalised and it has its roots in this documentary, which I must now track down because the documentary

sounds fantastic. It really has you rooting for the filmmakers, as I said, in the same kind of ways Be Kind Rewinded. I was also thinking of, do you remember I reviewed that British documentary a while ago, a bunch of amateurs about the British Film Club in which these guys were all getting together, and they're filming musicals and westerns, and at one point it looks like the film club is going to go completely under. And then Covid happens, and weirdly enough, because of the way the club works, they managed to get funding to see them through COVID that enables them to actually make more movies than they had made before. Anyway, in the case of this, the whole

thing's got a romping vibe about it. It's got a conclusion which left me rather teary-eyed. It is very much a film about the dreams of movies overcoming the doldrums of reality. It's in cinemas and then it's coming to Amazon Prime after that. I knew nothing about it before seeing it and I really enjoyed it. I now want to check out the documentary that inspired it, but I thought it was really good fun and I really enjoyed it. So how come this was press screened? Because often we get movies in Hindi and you say it's not press screened. Yeah, because this is being screened because I think it's an Amazon backed

project. But I mean, that doesn't never happen, as you know. We will review them if they are screened and if they are available for us. That's the way it works. Mason- Okay, and we'll get to one of those fairly shortly. In the box office top ten this week, at Numero Shata Lafitte Rothschild Polyact 2021, September says... Jason- Which is a really interesting film about two sisters locked together in a sort of darkly symbiotic relationship. Obviously, a lot of Lanthimos about it, unsurprisingly, but I thought it was powerful, strange, eerie and weird. I enjoyed it. At Number Chateau au Brion, Passage-Léonard 2021, I am Martin Parr.

You're going to do this all the time. Big expensive lunches that our crew have been going out for, it doesn't really care to me. So this is a documentary about the photographer Martin Parr. I think the way you feel about the doc will very much be determined by how you feel about the photos of Martin Parr. I didn't realise how much of his work I knew until watching the doc and going, oh, that's him, that's him, that's him. The thing he's most celebrated for now is these quite garishly colourful photographs of British seaside town, seaside eccentrics. But the documentary goes right back to his early black and

white social realist work and puts the modern work in context. I found it quite eye-opening stuff. If there are any sommeliers listening who can explain why the Numero Chateau Lafitte Roschel 2021 is better than say the 2019 and the Chateau Auberion, is that so much better? I haven't had it myself, but if someone could explain if you're an expert in French wine, thank you very much. The thing is, what is Chateau Neuf de Pape? Is that something to do with the pope? Yes, it's the house of the nine popes. There was a story where nine popes all got together and they had wild craziness between them and it was illegal. And so as a result of that,

they made wine together. Are you making this up or is this true? I'm making all of that. Okay wine together. Are you making this up or is this true? I'm making all of that. Okay fine. Chateaubriand is a steak but Chateaubriand, Passere-Léonien is a wine 2021. So if someone could help that would be very good. Number 10 by the way Moana. Two, yes not Moana, Moana two which as we say every week was designed to go straight to streaming and then did very very well in cinemas. I know loads of people who've been to see it with their young kids and the kids have loved it.

Number nine here, number eight in America is Chava. This wasn't a press screening. This is an Indian Hindi language historical action film. It's done all right. As I said, it really just depends on what gets screened and what doesn't. If it gets screened, we will review it. Number eight in the UK, number 12 in the States, a complete unknown, a sag-winning performance from Timothy. Somebody sent a photograph of Bob Dylan, indeed, wearing the black leather with the peice green shirt that Timothée Chalamet was sporting at the SAGs. As if to say it might

be a bad fashion decision, but it is an authentic fashion decision. Very good. If I had that shirt, I would wear it on this podcast right now so that everyone could see how spectacular it looked. I haven't, so I won't. Number seven is Sonic the Hedgehog 3. Followed, as our producer pointed out, by I'm Still Here. I'm Still Here at number six. I'm Still Here I think is remarkable. Sonic the Hedgehog 3 is still here. I'm Still Here is a really remarkable film. It's a true story. It's told grippingly and engrossingly, it has a fantastic central performance and a wonderful score by Warren Ellis who is one of my favourite composers

who obviously usually works with Nick Cape but in this particular case has done it himself and I thought it was a really powerful movie, a really great central performance and a marvellous score. Aidan in Ealing, just writing to echo Mark's fulsome praise of this magnificent film, there are so many aspects of I'm Still Here I want to write about, but we'll leave it to the scene that you played when Mark reviewed the film.

The shadowy security service thugs studied arrival at the house is one of the most affecting sequences I have ever seen at the cinema. Rather than the smashing in of doors that we are regularly fed nowadays, arrival at the house is one of the most affecting sequences I have ever seen at the cinema. Rather than the smashing in of doors that we are regularly fed nowadays with yells of clear, there is an almost polite affording of dignity shown to the family in the early interactions but this does nothing to leaven the feeling of disquiet Rubens, Rosa and the viewer feel as these visitors acquaint themselves. These men grant Rubens the opportunity

to go upstairs and change for his deposition as his carefree children mill around in their beach gear, unaware of the sinister, life-altering presence in what was minutes earlier a house of love. Walter Sallis has given us an hour in the company of this family and their friends and left us uplifted by their interactions and hopes for the future, which makes this home invasion all the more distressing. As he changes shirt in the bedroom, Rubens is crept up on by his blissfully unaware daughter who asks if she can borrow a garment to dry off with, not knowing what we know. This is heartbreaking cinema as father gazes at daughter and pretends all is well. It turns to horror in the blink of an eye as we become aware that they are not alone by the presence of a

militia goon hovering by the nightstand. Not sure if I could sit through those scenes again. Great work. Cheers, Aidan and Ealing. Yes, and a brilliant performance by Fernando Torres. And there's a scene which is also in the trailer when the family are having their photograph taken by a newspaper and the newspaper photographer says, can you not smile? The character played by Fernando Torres says, why? No, we will smile. There's this kind of defiance in the smile that image is in the trailer and that scene is incredibly powerful. Seeing a family smile under those circumstances as a kind of act of defiance is so powerful. It's so well observed. Number five here and in America Mufasa, The Lion King.

I think that we both feel the same way. It's okay. It's done well though. Yes, it has done well. It's, but I think from the, it's the least Barry Jenkins of Barry Jenkins films, but it does still have at least a trace of him in it. The Monkey is at number four. Now here's the really interesting thing. Numerous people got in touch with me to say, Mark, the Monkey is not an 18 certificate. The Monkey is a 15 certificate.

And this really baffled me because I was convinced that I actually I mean, if I had looked it up, because I read out the BBFC guideline. And for some reason, when I looked at the 15 on the BBFC website, my brain saw 18. I was figuring out, okay, why am I going crazy? Am I should I look at the number 15 and see 18 because I'm old and tired? And I think the reason is this, I really like the film. It's adapted from a Stephen King short story and it's Osgood Perkins and it's really gory but very much in the style of Evil Dead and American Werewolf.

That there's no, it's not cruel, it's just spectacularly gory. And I think that part of me, part of the old me that grew up in the 80s at the kind of time in which this sort of film would have been impounded by the police and prosecuted under the Obscene Publications Act and hauled through the courts through the video, just can't get my head around the fact that nowadays this is a 15. Honestly, young people, what a time to be alive. I mean, I know that- Can I just say, can I just say, I haven't, you know that I watched the substance until the final 40 minutes.

And I thought, okay, I'm going to watch the final 40 minutes. And I regret that decision and I lasted 10. And I absolutely wanted no more of it. Thank you. But I did go back, I did try again. And it was so appalling that I didn't want to ever. Boyd Hilton was absolutely right when he said, Simon, don't. And thank you, Boyd, you were correct.

Anyway, still on The Monkey. This is Paul. I intentionally didn't listen to the podcast last week until after my cinema trip. I suspected Mark's review of Captain America would dampen my enthusiasm. I regret this decision. Anyway, having not heard The Monkey review until after seeing the film, the humour surprised me and apparently only me as I was the only one laughing in the cinema. I really enjoyed it. I heard Mark's reference to Death Becomes Her, but felt it also had the charm of the 1990s series Eerie Indiana. I'm fairly

new to this director's films, but you can see by his reverence for the genre, as well as his distinct style of storytelling, a very different film from Long Legs, albeit with some clear stylistic similarities. Best wishes Paul. Ben Colley says, Dear Homo erectus and the missing link, I watched The Monkey last night and while I definitely didn't hate it, I didn't enjoy it as much as Mark seemed to either. I love horror comedy. For me, it's one of the most rewatchable movie genres, but the balance felt off somehow. The humour was forced, even obvious in places. The f-bombing

Stoner Priest, for example, only made me think of Hunt for the Wilder people and how much funnier Taika Waititi had made a similar scene. That said, a couple of the deaths got some big laughs out of me. I just wish the rest of the film had been less disjointed in its approach. Overall, a mixed bag, but I went in with high expectations, so maybe I'll view it more favourably if I ever get round to watching it a second time. Anyway, up with rational scientific thought and down with plastic straws from Ben Colley. The Death Becomes a Reference was one that Oz Perkins himself made. He said that that was one of the films that he had referred to. But I really enjoyed it. I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy it as much. I mean, I really did enjoy it.

But as I said, I can only explain because I genuinely looked it up on the BBFC site because I actually quoted the rubric below. And I can only think that my poor, addled brain looked at the number 15 and thought, that can't be a 15 because I mean, it's so weird. Films that I grew, when When I grew up there were films that were literally being banned and hauled off the shelves that are now 15 certificate.

Dogman is at number three, number four in the States. So I really enjoyed Dogman. We had an email from somebody who'd sort of said, I don't get why this is funny. I had gone to see it because the great redactor had told me that I had to because it was a big thing. Then I was really surprised by how much I enjoyed it. There is one thing I should say relating to the previous email, which is perhaps the best way to see any film is to go in with low expectations. I didn't go into Dogman thinking, this is a 10 o'clock on a Monday morning that I'm going to enjoy, but I really laughed. Number two here, number one in America is Captain America Brave New World. Now,

last week, a film I haven't seen Mark has, last week when I did a mini-tante about whether anybody really could cope with a superhero that stands for everything America stands, which now has changed in the space of a few weeks. And that stands for everything America stands, which now has changed in the space of a few weeks. It stands for everything which most right thinking people detest. I did not expect to get an email like this from someone who listens to our podcast and is clearly serving in the American forces. Okay. So, dear Stephen Roger, I come to bury Captain America, not to praise him. Simon, when you discussed Captain America, Brave New World, I could hear the disgust in your voice. Though this pains me to say, I share that disgust. I joined the US military nearly 20 years ago with

my eyes open. I knew the horrible things that the United States had done in the past and would likely do in the future, but I believed, maybe naively, that if good people who believed in the same values as exemplified by Captain America, honestly, striving for justice and helping, I think it means honesty, striving for justice and helping those in need, stepped up and served with honor and dignity, we could help push the US towards that promised land to which I believed we were striving. Now, I'm not so sure. I'm not sure what I'm doing anymore. All I can do is to be an island of order and reason in a raging river of chaos. And that brings me to Captain America. One of the best Marvel movies is Captain America,

The Winter Soldier, because it grapples with Steve Rogers losing his idealism towards the United States, seeing it for what it truly is and still deciding to fight for what he knows is right and what the country can become. It may be filled with punching and explosions, but also with the actual turmoil of a hero losing their faith and yet sticking to their ideals. The newest Captain America movie tries to nod towards this theme, but its writing, direction, and very apparent reshoots neuter any possibility of an actual message. This is extremely unfortunate because we need a popular popcorn movie with a resounding message of fighting against tyranny and for what is right and good.

Brave New World is not that movie. It's so boring and inconsequential that it may actively hurt any message it's trying to put forward. It seems Captain America is frozen in ice again. Maybe he or she, with ideals based on the best that the USA can be, will emerge soon ready to fight. I certainly hope so. No quarter to fascists, name redacted from somewhere in America and a note to the chief redactor. Please don't read out my name. I doubt many right-wingers in the US listen to this podcast, but I'd rather not take the chance

if that's all right. Which it obviously is, and if you want to write anonymously. Like I said, the thought that we had some people listening to us who actually serve in the American military never really occurred to me. But thank you very much indeed, whoever you are, and much appreciated. Yeah. I mean, I have almost nothing to add to that because that is pretty much incredible. Yes. Thank you for writing.

Thank you for taking the time to write. Thank you for writing, thank you for taking the time to write, thank you for writing so honestly. And yes, I think there's nothing I could say that could add to what you have said, other than to say, you know, I sincerely hope, I sincerely hope that this situation does not remain this way. And I hope there are more people like our correspondent who actually think I need, I mean I would understand if they bailed, but maybe they just think we need to hang around, otherwise the prospects are really grim. Also, I'd just like to say that particularly in the kind of tour of vengeance which is going on at the moment in the chainsaw being wielded around by the present incumbent and his performing monkey. It is all the braver that you have written to us and thank you.

We do appreciate it. Thank you very much. It is really, really good to hear from you. Will Barron That movie was at number two. By the way, can I just say in passing, credit again to Amanda Iannucci, who's on his podcast with Helen Lewis, has started referring to Elon Musk as Alan Musk. And I just think it's so, with respect to all Alan's listening, it's somehow belittling to give him a name that isn't wildly exotic and just call him Alan. So I think that's what I'm going to do in the future. Did you see that Stephen King made a return to Twitter? You'll have to birdsong this. Made a return to Twitter simply to say,

Trump is a traitorous Putin loving dick. Doubly so for Elon. Stephen King, he's a genius. Anyway, the UK number one, and it's not anywhere in America because it went straight to streamers, is Bridget Jones, Mad About the Boy. Which I enjoyed very much. I cried, I laughed, I thought it was a total mess. I mean, like a kind of a real train wreck of a film in terms of the way it was structured. But it got me in the feels and I spent the last 25 minutes of it crying like a baby and I love nothing more than a good cry in the cinema. Correspondence at Kerb and Amoe.com, Robert Carlisle after this.

What's up, Mark? All's well, how about you? Well, I've been thinking about that cushion that we gave away at our live show. Yeah. That and the pencil case. Imagine if we had a load more that we needed to shift. Imagine the riches.

Every bottom or pencil case in the country would be graced in some way by our presence. Mason- Well, when you put it like that, we should have used Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide from people selling compasses to comfy cushions. Mason- And it covers all your sales channels from a shop front ready POS system to its all-in-one e-commerce platform. It gets you selling across social media marketplaces. Oh, and it's full of the industry leading tools ready to ignite your growth. Shopify gives you complete control over your business and your brand without learning new

skills in design or coding. And thanks to award-winning help, Shopify is ready to support your success every step of the way. Sign up for a £1 per month trial period at Shopify.co.uk slash curmode. This episode is brought to you by MUBI, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema.

MUBI is the place to discover ambitious films by visionary filmmakers, all carefully handpicked, so you can explore the best of cinema, streaming anytime, anywhere. Mark, what is streaming on MUBI this month? It's not just what's streaming, it's what's streaming and back in cinemas, and there is only one answer.

Is it Mary Poppins? It's The Substance, the currently Farzhan movie, which I absolutely love, and I've been trying to get you to see. It's brilliant body horror, up for five Academy Awards, fantastic performance by Demi Moore, brilliant direction and writing by Carolee Fargeot who made Revenge. It was my favourite film of last year and I keep saying to you, you need to see it. Well now Simon, you have the choice of seeing it on MUBI streaming or back in the cinema.

You could try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com slash Kermit and Mayo. That's MUBI.com slash Kermit and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. Hi there, Mark. Do you know why hiring the right people quickly is so important? Well, the world of weekly film podcasts is so breakneck that when a vacancy comes up we need to fill it fast. Good thing that there's Indeed sponsored jobs then when it comes to hiring Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post seen on other job sites Indeed sponsored jobs helps you stand out and hire fast. With sponsored jobs your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster.

According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. So it makes a huge difference. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a £100 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash KermodeMayo. Just go to indeed.com slash KermodeMayo right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Hiring Indeed is all you need. So this week's guest is Robert Carlisle. Beg being trainspotting, Gaz in the full Monte,

Renard in the world is not enough and loads more. We met to talk about Toxic Town, a Netflix series which details the Corby toxic waste case, the first lawsuit to link atmospheric toxic waste to birth defects. You'll hear a clip from the series and then you'll hear our conversation. Don't know why you got half of these from. I don't know why they were posted through my door. These are serious breaches Roy. These files show repeatedly that Pat Miller, that the tenders given to Pat Miller should never have been given. These are potential

crimes. Crimes? Come on now. Contracts worth hundreds of thousands of pounds going to the wrong bidder. What else do you want to call it? You're saying any of this is at my door. Come on Roy, if I thought you were on the take I wouldn't even be here. I know you're honest. be here. I know you're honest, but I do want to know how far does this go? And that is a clip from Toxic Town. That's Robert Carlile attacking Brendan Coyle. Well, in a kind of a little confrontation. Robert Carlile, how are you? I'm doing well, Simon. How are you? It's very nice to have you on the podcast. It's nice to see you.

I was trying to remember the last time that I talked to you, but it might be the 90s. I don't think it was long ago. It was maybe T2, Transpottin. Transpottin 2, yes. Absolutely. Okay. So Toxic Town is this new series on Netflix. You play Sam Hagan, who's a counsellor. Introduce us to the story because I think a lot of people will not be familiar with this tale. Yeah, I think that's possibly true. I mean, I guess it's a true story, set in Corby, Northamptonshire. And it's really about one of the biggest environmental disasters in UK history, which in turn led to certainly the biggest case of child poisoning

since the thalidomide scandal, in fact. Yeah. So it's told through the eyes of the people of Corby, in particular a group of mothers, and their search for the eyes of the people of Corby, in particular a group of mothers, in their search for justice, for truth. And the Corby councillors, you know, from Corby Borough Council, they've got their own agenda and we can maybe talk about that as well. It has been described as the British Erin Brockovich, which is, I suppose it's kind of a neat shorthand, but it's ordinary folk campaigning against an injustice. Yeah. Well, I think people always like to have something to go,

it's like this, and it's like that. I mean, it's its own thing, is the truth of it. I understand that Erin Brockovich herself did contact the mothers. Is that right? Yeah, at the time. So she's seen some similarities in it for sure. Okay.

You play Sam Hagan. Tell us about him because he's an intriguing man. In fact, we should say the whole series is dedicated to him. Yeah, that's right. Sam was a counselor at Corby, but a counselor, he's a good man. You know what I mean? He's a very, very, very good man. I think he used his position as a counselor to try and do good things, good things for people. He's a tremendous kind of moral certainty about the man, that's for sure. And his own particular search for the truth that what had happened at that site was tremendously helpful for the mothers.

He's also a man that could probably start a fight in an empty house. One of the nice lines I heard about Sam was that he was devastating at administration. I just loved the notion of that. That's a great skill to have. I tell you what, put that on a t-shirt. Absolutely. Jack Thorne, who wrote it, inevitably, the extraordinary Jack Thorne, said he was the kind of guy to whom civic society meant something. And he also said that he would start every anecdote with an analogy about Roman generals. I mean, he really does sound like quite a character.

Yeah. And Jack has also said that he said Robert Carlyle transformed himself. So I'm looking at, you know, you look very much like Robert Carlyle, but you're a man in a three-piece suit, I think, for the whole show. I am, yes, yes. The different styles of suit, you know, like 80s suit, 90s suit, but essentially a suit all the way through it, yeah. Do you think you transformed yourself? Or do you not do that every show? different styles of suit, you know, like 80s suit, 90s suit, but essentially a suit all the way through it, yeah. Do you think you transformed yourself? Or do you not do that every show?

I think you don't make yourself sound too grand, you know, you talk about things like that, but I try to, you know, I try to kind of, you know, inhabit that character for as long as I'm there with him, and within that skin. Certain characters is easier to do that than others. Sam is not an obvious road, but there was something about him, Simon, that really reminded me a lot of my own father. In fact, my dad was not in a kind of change the world kind of way, but he was like a dog with a bone, my dad, when it came to injustice. So I kind of had echoes in my father's voice, you know, the whole time. And even the way Sam speaks, it's just, I mean, it's me, obviously,

but there's a slight difference in the tone and the pitch. And that's certainly in my dad. There's something quite definite about the way he speaks. Yeah. Mark messaged me that you have his favourite line Right. in the whole series. This is a recorded interview.

So you can say the line if you whole series. This is a recorded interview, so you can say the line if you remember it. And his favourite line in all four episodes is you talking to Brendan Coyle. Nice Brendan Coyle from Downton Abbey, but maybe not so in this show. Do you know the line I'm talking about? I think I've missed his clearing here, I'm going to see. Do you want me to say it? If you know what the line is, go ahead. I think what he's referring to is me saying, you've always been a w***er Roy, but you never used to be a c***.

That's the one. And when it got to that bit, it's fine, we'll have put Birdsong over that. Okay, good. That's okay. Mark, he said, this is my favorite zinger. This is my favorite zinger. Well, thank Mark very much. I'm glad you enjoyed that. So there's the tension as you're trying to seek justice, but there aren't any kind of bad guys in this show. You know, the villainy of, what is the villainy in this? Is it greed? Is it just being lackadaisical or, Because the steel industry has collapsed. They pulled down the steelworks. They're trying to do good things for Corby and regenerate

Corby. Is it just about cutting corners? And is that why the admin, Crazy Sam, is upset? Maybe. I think what you just said there just sums it up perfectly, to be honest. I don't think there is any real villains in the piece. There was Corby council certainly didn't deliberately set out to do this. You know, this was just something that happened, you know. I think the problem was, it was obviously to do with the reclamation of the land and the regeneration of that site and the removal of that waste, which led to the problems, the toxic waste. I think it was more to do with the speed in which it was done. There was some probably dodgy tenders that were given out. But again, even those tenders that were given out,

they were given out to people who had been part of the steel plant. That was like, they were trying to keep it in-house. If that's their crime, then they're guilty of that. If there's any villain in it, it's haste, if anything. Yes. The mothers are of course the focus of the story, led by Jodie Whittaker and Amy Lou Wood. And they are astonishingly powerful women who sort of triumph, I don't think that's too much of a spoiler, eventually. But I guess what's quite shocking to viewers

is that the women blame themselves. It seems to be a recurring feature of all of their experiences as they have given birth and many of their babies are without hands or have deformed hands or feet. They assume that it's something that they've done. I think that's what a mother does. You know what I mean? You sort of bring it on yourself. You think it must have been something that I've done. Of course, Jodie's character, Susan McIntyre, she says she never smoked, she never drank through the pregnancies. But of course she did a history of being a drinker before that, you know what I mean? Since she takes that on, thinks it must be something to do with me. Of course, it has nothing to do with that at all. But maybe that's a kind of social

pressure. But of course, people always want to point blame, point the finger. People will have seen the trailer maybe already and they might be wondering why there are quite so many Scots in Corby. The show does explain that, but can you explain? Well, I mean, the steel plant in Corby had been there since the 1930s. And from then onwards, loads of people from Scotland that were involved in the steel industry in Scotland came down and worked in the Corby steel plant. So there's generations of Scots there. It's so much so that I think you've got the nickname of Little Scotland.

So lots of Scots, lots of people of Scots descent still there. This is a question from someone who doesn't act at all. So maybe, forgive me if this is a daft question, but we were talking about your character, you said he's slightly like your father. Is it more difficult to get into a character where you have to make a slight adjustment than a character? I mean, you've played Adolf Hitler. Is it more difficult to make those character changes than to make the big dramatic ones?

No, I think that's an interesting question actually, because I think that's true. I think it's actually strangely enough easier when it's a bigger jump. I don't know why that is, but it's a kind of larger pond, I suppose. But when it's something that's closer to you like that, it's much more delicate. You get much less leeway. So it's harder to kind of hit those moments because you don't want it to be you. This is the thing. You don't want it to be, you know,

Robert Kaleo playing Robert Kaleo, yeah. It's not that far removed. It's a bit like you in another life, I suppose, is the best way to explain it. When you walked in, there is still a part of me that's scared of you, which is, which is not a trans body thing. This is Albie Kinsella. This is from cracker. Oh, come on. I mean, that was an astonishing role to have. Thank you. Well, it was listening to change everything

for me. Is that how, is that how it seems to you? I think no doubt about it. It was the first time I played something outside of this voice. It was a Scouser. Thankfully, people thought I was from Liverpool, you know, after it. So obviously I ticked a box there. So that opened up a bowl because speaking like this, you know, I mean, the first time we ever spoke, I was probably even more like that. And it's very difficult to get taken seriously. There's a working actor, he talks like, well, that's great. He can do that. Can he do the other thing? I've actually heard that said. Can he do the other thing? Of course, the other thing is a bit changing. I've been changing

this voice, a bit changing this whole demeanor. Thankfully through my life, my career, I've hopefully been able to do that. Yes. I think you definitely have. And of course, the Liverpool accent back again with John Lennon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yesterday. What an amazing, that was like as a reveal that was, I don't know, I haven't spoiled it for too many people, but that was great. Well it's interesting now because Danny, Danny Boyle had directed it. He caught me up and

he said, like, it's something I'd love you to do. And he said, look, he said, I'm not gonna tell you what it is, just read the whole script, which is for an actor. That's kind of like, what? Where am I? Exactly, I can't just go to my bit. So I did. And as it was coming towards it,

I thought, I know it's coming here, you know? Banging there it was, it was John Lennon. And it made me cry. It genuinely, genuinely brought tears to my eyes. I just thought, oh my God, you know, that opportunity to bring John back, even just for a small second or two. So it was, it was, it was an easy yes to do that. Can I just ask you finally about award season? Cause we've just done our SAG award special this morning. We've got an Oscar special. We've done a BAFTA special as a man who's

been to his fair share of award ceremonies. Are they nothing to you? Are you quite happy to not be going to them? I mean, is it the standard thing about it's all completely useless unless you win one, in which case it's a lovely thing. It means a lot. Yeah. Do you shrug? Do you vote? Are you happy to take part in these? I don't, I kind of look at it, I kind of gaze on it from afar. That's been very, very lucky like that, Simon. Lucky like that through the years and a few of these things,

you know, and that was great. And I'm grateful for that. You know, it was wonderful. But I don't think about it, you know, I don't crave it. It's not something that I kind of like, oh, why wasn't that me? What do we see you in next?

Couple of things, I guess, coming out. A little indie film coming out in March called The Performance, which is taken from an Arthur Muller short story. And it's about a group of tap dancers, in fact, who are going through Eastern Europe just before the outbreak of the Second World War. They're kind of met by a German cultural attache, me, and he invites them to come and do a special performance in Berlin for a very special guest. Can you imagine who that is? Yes, I can. I can probably. Can I just say just, I know that was supposed to be my last question, but isn't Arthur Miller where it all started for you? Didn't someone give you a copy of the Crucible?

Yeah, no, absolutely. I bought a copy of the Crucible. You're right. No, it was a story. I mean, I'd been given book tokens for my birthday. So I must have been, I don't know, 18 maybe, something like that. And I went to the bookshop and I got, I can't even remember what the book is that I wanted. I got it. And I had money left over and I remember it was 75p, 75p was left over. And what we gonna do with this? And besides, there was, I didn't even know the word, scripts, drama scripts, you know?

And I seen the crucible, you know? And I remember that, I remember that for school, you know? I enjoyed that book, I thought. Took it home and started to read it and I thought, what is this? This isn't a book, you know, it's a script. And I was just blown away by it. I thought how incredible is this? This isn't a book, you know, it's a script. And I was blown away by it. I thought how incredible that this man can,

because it was obviously McCarthy witch hunts, to disguise that with the Salem witch trials. And that was the beginning for me of this idea of disguising yourself into something that you're not. And now who we are a few decades later and back doing Arthur Miller. Indeed.

Fantastic. Robert Carlisle. Thank you very much. Thank you, Simon. Robert Carlisle, still slightly scary, even though he's very genial. And Toxic Town is a four-part drama series on Netflix and well worth your time. And the story is structured, it's like perfect. I mean, Jack Thorne always does these things very well, but you know, you start with the injustice, then the campaign,

and then the courtroom stuff at the end. I enjoyed it. Yeah. Two things to say. Firstly, very good interview and a number of points in which Robert Carlyle went, yeah, that's a really good point. So the thing about, is it harder to play close to home? Very good. The thing about, well done for Arthur Miller. That was great. The thing about Well Done for Arthur Miller, that was great. And I think, I mean, I really liked Toxic Town and I do think that the real triumph of it is in the structure of the storytelling. So I think that huge credit is due to Jack Thorne for managing to streamline the story because I didn't know about this.

I mean, you said yourself, this is a story that people may not know about this. You said yourself this is a story that people may not know about and they really should do. So after watching the thing and I binge watched the whole thing all in one lot and then afterwards I then went and read about it on the internet. And what you discover is that the real story is more complex obviously, but is also more unwieldy. And what Jack Thorne has managed to do is to turn it into a structured drama that makes sense. It's not that it simplifies or misrepresents, but what it does is it makes it into a dramatic thing that actually plays out in a complete dramatic form.

And I think that, I do think the writing is central to that. The Brockovich comparison, I know that Robert Carlisle slightly bridled at it, although he did say that Aaron Brockovich got in touch with the mothers, which was interesting. I hadn't known that. The thing with the Brockovich is it's a good shorthand because people know the Aaron Brockovich case through the Steven Soderbergh movie. People know the Aaron Brockovich case through the Steven Soderbergh movie. And so it's that idea of a lawyer helping people to fight back against a much larger force and not thinking that they have any power.

I thought the point that you raised in that interview is that one of the most distressing things about this series is the fact that the mothers blame themselves. Because of course that's the instinct. And there is a whole section with Jodie Whittaker's character, which not only does she blame herself, but later on when they get into the courtroom, the lawyer sort of blames her. Do you remember that scene in which he starts asking her about her life? He tries to, yeah.

And it's really, really distressing. I mean, I think it's right. Yes, there are no bad guys as such. What there is, is a kind of corporate carelessness and a cutting of corners. I mean, this whole thing about, yes, what they're trying to do is to regenerate, to regenerate the area, to clear it, to turn it into something that will be better for the area. But they are doing to turn it into something that will be better for the area. But they are doing it in such a way that it is having catastrophic consequences. It's also worth remembering that at the very beginning of the series, you see these lorries ploughing through the streets and you see the fumes of dust coming off the backs of the

lorries and then falling into the gutter and then washing down away through. I thought that was directed really well because it sort of sets everything up very, very early on. The phrase that either you or Robert Cullar used, if there is villainy in it, then that villainy is haste. And that's established from the very beginning that it's this thing about it's being rushed, it's not being done properly, and as a result of that it doesn't matter why you're doing it, it is really, genuinely toxic as the title of the thing tells us. The other thing is that the drama ends with a series of statistics about just the wider legacy of the case, and I've heard Robert Carlyle talking as well about, you know, the other areas that are affected by the disposal of toxic waste. So it brings the story

up to date. It means that it's relevant. I mean, I found it very gripping. I found parts of it very upsetting as you're meant to. And I did think all the way through, hats off to Jack Thorne for structuring this story in a way which is dramatically engaging first and telling me about a story that I didn't know about and I should have known about. And tougher to tell a story when the criminality is so banal., uh, a villain, it's so much easier to go, there you go. It's all his fault. And, and they, Brendan Cole's character, I think it says he's a composite, you know, there wasn't, Brendan Cole is not playing someone who actually existed, which maybe they needed to sort of, they needed someone to just to personify the slack standards

that had become endemic. Yes. Somebody who, somebody who always used to be a,em, but never used to be an ahem, which is... That's right. That is pure poetry, that line. It's pure poetry. And all the better when said by Robert Carlisle. Toxic Town is on Netflix. Be interested to know what you make of it.

Correspondence at curbiderman.com. After all that toxicity, I think... you know what we need, Mark? Comedy. We need a little bit of comedy. Sadly, we haven't got any, but we have got the laughter. Well, I'm just looking at this material. It's really great. Hey, Mark.

I wanted to, I don't know if you know this, but back in the day, I wanted to marry my English teacher when she got out of prison. I mean, this is... Here we go, the long, the long trudge up the path to the punchline. I wanted to marry my English teacher when she got out of prison, but apparently you can't end a sentence with a proposition. prison but apparently you can't end a sentence with a proposition. That's an editor's joke for you. I was just talking about embarrassing moments that I've had at film junkets that make you wish the ground would open up and swallow me. I remember when I I reached for a water bottle and accidentally smacked Dwayne Johnson on the backside and that was the day I truly hit rock bottom.

Okay. And finally, for the purposes of this final joke, Mark, I had lunch with Sir Elton John last week. Do you know he doesn't like spinach? I didn't. No, he's more of a rocket man. Yeah. The thing is, the thing is, you kind of peeked in the middle. There was the proposition which was groany, then you peeked in the middle and then it was just an Elton John Rocketman gag. Yeah, but I thought it was all high class myself. Anyway, coming up after the break it'll be the last showgirl, but first a little bit

of commercial activity. Okay, so here's an interesting thing. Dear Oscar and Bafta, this is from Roseanne. First time emergency mailer, long time listener, I just felt I needed to let Mark know after his tale of woe at shaking Mario van Peebles fist bump. Oh yes. It was a couple of weeks ago, Mario van Peebles was on and you told this story. Yeah, he gave me a fist bump and I thought he was shaking my hand and there is a photograph that Julie Edwards, the great photographer took of me looking like the uncoolest human being on earth, attempting to shake Mario van Peebles, who is one of the coolest people on earth, fist bump.

Well, Roseanne says, I can totally relate to this faux pas as the exact same thing happened to me in 2011. Me and his good self, the delivery driver extraordinaire, fully versed in parcel tongue, had been invited to a cousin's 40th birthday party actually being held at the South Fork Ranch in Dallas. The star guest at the party was none other than the late great Stetson wearing Larry Hagman, who made his way through the room greeting all of the partygoers personally. I stood waiting for my turn to say hello, and as he approached me with his arm coming up, as I thought to shake hands, he put out his fist and I promptly shook it. I was horrified at what I'd done shaking Larry Hagman's spud. Larry just smiled, said hello and nonchalantly moved on to

the next guest. He was obviously more well versed in fist bumping than I was. Thanks for such a good pod. Keep up the good work and best regards. There's a photo here, which Rosanne has sent of her and her husband David with Larry Hagman at South Fork. You'll see in the picture that my husband was getting a telling off from Larry as he'd just come from outside and he'd walked inside. Obviously, it was a very bright Dallas day outside, so he still had his sunglasses on. Larry took one look at him and said, day outside, so he still had his sunglasses on. Larry took one look at him and said, take your shades off, boy. David was 47 at the time, but you are going to remember that. Joanne, still mortally embarrassed, says, when I heard Mark's tale of the shaking of Mario van Peebles fist bump, I rejoiced at feeling partially absolved from my identical faux pas

that occurred on the set of Mission Impossible. This is last year. I've been working as a film stand-in for 20 plus years and very accustomed to meeting and working around some big names. It was my first day on the set of this particular job and I was being introduced to Tom by our director, Christopher McQuarrie. We were shooting down a mine in the Midlands in February and I'd just returned from a long haul destination the day previously, and I was feeling somewhat discombobulated to say the least. As I was being introduced, I was aware that Tom was offering up what I thought was his hand for a shake, so I happily obliged only to watch his face slowly transform from a big smile to a tilted head look of bemusement.

It took a fair while before it dawned on me that I was in fact shaking Tom Cruise's fist bump. He took it in his stride and with humour, though a few days afterwards I reached out to give him a fist bump and he shook my fist with a cheeky grin. There you go. Joanne still mortally embarrassed and suffering from post fist bump disorder. I think the thing is this, I don't think I would ever feel comfortable doing a fist bump because I feel like it's not a gesture that I would do because I'm a white 62 year old from Finchley. I don't know whether, could you get away with a fist bump?

Didn't you fist bumped? Oh, fantastic actor. You did fist bump somebody. Oh, no, you didn't. Is it my hygienic? Yeah. Is that what it is? Is it a hygiene thing? Is it the not wanting to clasp hands? Is that what it is? I don't know. I mean, I know I wouldn't tend to do a fist bump and let, but if Tom Cruise offered me a fist, I'd rather offer my fist rather than it meet my face. Mason- Didn't you fist bump Chadwick Boseman? Or was it the Wakanda sign? Jason- Yes, Wakanda Forever.

Mason- Right, okay fine. Jason- Hands across the chest, Wakanda. Because I said Wakanda Forever and he did the hands across the chest and bow so you're going to think I have to try. Mason- He was one of the best interviews you ever did, wasn't he? He was magnificent. He was such a nice guy, but such good value and so thoughtful. And he answered the question about Scorsese and the Marvel universe and the comic strip universe so brilliantly. He was just extraordinary talent. And he was very, very thin and he must have known about the advanced state of his cancer.

I don't think anyone else did, so that's why everyone was shocked. But yes, no, you're absolutely right. That was a very, very memorable encounter. So yes, last showgirl you mentioned, Pamela Anderson time. Yes. So if you've been listening to our awards pods, uh, you'll know about this because obviously there's, there's been a lot of awards attention. So this is an indie spirited drama by Gia Coppola, granddaughter of Francis Ford Coppola. Um, Francis Ford Coppola's Jack has a dedication to her for Gia when you see a shooting star. So part of the Coppola dynasty. So previously Gia Coppola was director of Palo Alto,

which I didn't like. I thought it was kind of, you know, a glacial, another glacial Coppola outing about, oh, the emptiness of American teenage life and then mainstream. This, however, has been much better received. So Pamela Anderson in the last Showgirl plays a Vegas showgirl who discovers that the show in which she's made her living is closing down. She's in her 50s, she's

done three decades at La Razzle Dazzle, which is an old fashioned review on the Vegas strip. Her friend Annette, who's played brilliantly by Jamie Lee Curtis, was a showgirl, is now a cocktail waitress, although she still has the old spirit in her. And Pamela Ransom's character, Shelley, is estranged from her daughter, Hannah, who spent much of her life away from her mum because she was pursuing a career as a showgirl, a career which she considered to be glamorous and alluring. Here's a clip of Pamela Ransom in The Last Showgirl. I love the show. I love it. I feel so good about myself in this show.

And you and Marianne and Hannah can't understand, but the costumes, the sets, being bathed in that light night after night, feeling seen, feeling beautiful. That is powerful. And I can't imagine my life without it. I just think it's wild that, you know, I'm the one who's been on the stage all these years that I'm the one people come for. That I'm the one on the poster and you, you Eddie, are going to go on to this show or that show and the producers will just place you elsewhere because you know

how to read a lighting cue? You just tell someone to push a damn button. So the Eddie to whom she refers there is played by De Batista. He's one of the people in charge of putting the show on. Nicely underplayed, nicely underplayed performance. So essentially, what's happened is the world in which Shelley plied her trade has changed. Now, some of the girls working in that show are auditioning for a new kind of show, which Shelley considers to be obscene. She thinks that the age of glamour has gone and the whole film is set in that kind of faded glamour world. So two Golden Globe nominations, best actress, best song, SAG nomination for Anderson and for Jamie Lee Curtis and a BAFTA nod for Pamela Anderson. So something of a sort of late career validation for Pamela Anderson, who of course was famous for Baywatch and then famous

for that tape. And then recently the story of her marriage was told in a series on Disney Plus, told in a series on, was it on Disney Plus? The Pamela and Tommy Lee, which happens anyway. So this is written by Kate Gerstin, who is adapting a play that she wrote called Body of Work, which was itself inspired by the visits that she made to the Jubilee show, which was closing in 2016. So it's got sort of documentary research behind it. I thought the film had some of the faded glamour appeal of,

do you remember a while ago I reviewed a film which Udo Keir, the film was called Swan Song, and Udo Keir was this makeup artist who is sort of called out of retirement to dress the body of a once starry colleague from whom he was estranged and it's about him going back to his old haunts and how everything has changed and how the glamour that he used to know and that he used to swim in has now passed on. And this had a lot of that. There's a very poignant sense of past glories. In a way, it's kind of like the aftermath of Paul Verhoeven's Showgirls. When Paul Verhoeven Showgirls. Paul Verhoeven Showgirls is all garish and glitzy and it's too bright and it's violent and kind of revolting. And this is faded and melancholic and it's got a sort of twilight feel to it. Everything seems to be playing out in a twilight world. There's a very good sense of camaraderie between the showgirls. As I said, a nicely understated performance by Dave

Batista, who's probably now best known for the superhero roles. I liked it. I'll be honest, I didn't love it. I know that a lot of people have really sort of praised it and the awards consideration has been strong. And I do think Pamela Anderson is very well cast because obviously there's a sort of autobiographical tinge because Pamela Anderson made very well cast because obviously, there's a sort of autobiographical tinge because Pamela Anderson made her name as somebody who was, you know, a spectacular appearance certainly in the days of Baywatch. And now this is about the work involved in that stuff and the way that the glamour thing changes, the thing that you think at one point is glittery and fabulous changes.

I mean, I think that Vegas is and has always been a poisonous stain on the world. So I don't share any of the nostalgia for it at all. But I thought that the film did manage to make me feel slightly more fondly about it. So I think it's okay. I don't think it's great. I think it's nostalgically charming and has good performances. Jamie Lee Curtis in particular is very, very good. I thought it was touching and it was clearly written by somebody that knew the world. I just don't know that it's quite as good as some of the critics have found it to be. Correspondence at kermannandmere.com for your opinion.

Once you've seen any of these films or TV shows we're talking about, that is the end of take one. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team was Jen, Eric, Josh, Vicki, Zachy, and Heather. The producer was Jem, the redactor was Simon Pool. And if you're not following the pod already, shame on you, but please do so wherever you get your podcasts.

Mark, what is your movie of the week? My movie of the week is Superboys of Malygon. And I am going to go and track down the documentary, which inspired it because I enjoyed the feature very much. Take two has landed adjacent to this pod. We'll also have an Oscar special for the Vanguard Easter on Monday, so we'll see you very soon.