Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Brady Corbet on The Brutalist, Oscars & AI

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

Brady Corbet, the now-Oscar-nominated director of ‘The Brutalist’, sits down with Simon for an interview this week. His much lauded and lengthy fictional biopic follows the life of László Tóth, a Hungarian architect who arrives in late-1940s America having survived the Holocaust, and finds his life changed once again when he picks up a commission from a wealthy industrialist. Brady chats to Simon about all those awards nominations, the empathy generating machine that is Adrien Brody, and the future of AI in the movie business. Reviews this week of ‘Companion’, a smart sci-fi horror about a holiday weekend gone awry for a couple who seem a little uncanny—and ‘Saturday Night’, Jason Reitman’s 70s-set tale of the origins of America’s now legendary Saturday Night Live comedy show. Plus ‘Hard Truths’, Mike Leigh’s family drama following Marianne Jean-Baptiste's scathing Pansy, an emotionally volatile woman grieving her mother and navigating wounded relationships with her sister, husband and son. Check out last week’s show to hear Simon’s interview with Marianne and Mike, who some of you may have noticed was feeling a tad grumpy at the beginning of the interview... Top takes from you too on what’s been on your screens this week, and of course, Mark’s Prime Ministerial quiff. Timecodes (for Vanguardistas listening ad-free): Hard Truths Review: 09:40 Brady Corbet Interview: 26:27 Saturday Night Review: 45:52 Laughter lift: 51:53 Companion Review: 54:29 You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] And to find out more about Sony’s new show Origins with Cush Jumbo, click here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by MUBI, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema. MUBI is the place to discover ambitious films by visionary filmmakers, all carefully handpicked, so you can explore the best of cinema streaming anytime, anywhere. Mark, what can people discover on MUBI this month? So we have The Girl with the Needle, which was nominated for Best International Film at the Golden Globes, which is an absolutely chilling based on a true story by Magnus von Horn. We reviewed it here on the show,

we talked about how it looked extraordinary. It was really, really disturbing, really, really got under my skin. There's also the first films first collection, which is now streaming on movie, which includes things like hunger, the debut feature from Steve McQueen with a standout performance by Michael Fassbender

and also Pepe Lucy Bum, which is the debut feature from Pedro Almodovar and is an absolutely anarchic riot. You can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com slash Kermode and Mayo. That's So Mark, I have a question for you. Yes. Where do you stand on the slightly prickly subject of gratuitous self-promotion? Well, I'm all for it. Well, I'm all for it. This is a visual joke. Yeah. I could read to you from chapter 20, the call came in two days, 8 a.m. number withheld. What do you think of that as a line? It's a great line. It sort of draws you in. It hooks you, doesn't it? You want to know why? Why was the number withheld? Why was it coming in then? Who are these people? Let me know more. Also, what was the number that was being withheld? Was it spam?

The thing I always think, Simon, is you never know where danger is going to come from. That's the wrong book. I know it's the wrong book. The tag for this one is, fire can't cleanse everything. That's right. Yeah, exactly. Which is very good. Do you like that? That's right. Yeah, exactly. Which is very good. But as just, yes, this is Simon's new book. But the thing I was referring to was Simon's previous book, the front cover of which was an image, like a very darkened image of a bunch of people. And then in bright red was a sort of

rucksack on the back of someone's back. And the tagline was, you never know where danger is going to come from. To which as Jason said, probably the rucksack. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, a number of people said that very, very, very quickly. Someone has a different colored backpack from everybody else. Hey, on the subject of self-promotion, um, I've, I finished the music book. I finished the, I finished the, the, the going through it.

I've done the, it's all good. It's going, it's going, it's going this afternoon. Have you finally pressed send? No, I'm sending the pressings and send this afternoon. I've got to do the one last, you know, have I done everything with everything? And you lose everything. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But so, so yeah, my book's out in September. When's yours out?

Uh, it's out now. Now. It's already out. It's called Black Tag. Hey, hey, it's a lovely hardback with a lovely cover. Okay. I'm kind of against- They won't keep any of this, you know that. This is all going to come up. They'd absolutely better keep every single second of it or there'll be trouble or I'll

become Mike Lee. Speaking of which, what are're going to be reviewing the new film by Mike Chucklesley, Hard Truths, Saturday Night, which is a film about the setting up of Saturday Night Live, which of course is celebrating its 50th anniversary, and Companion, in which I'm going to endeavour to tell you less in my review about the film than you learn from either the trailer or the poster. Okay, so that's all coming up. Also, Brady Corbet is going to be on talking about The Brutalist, and so we'll reconsider some of the points after we've heard from him. Plenty of extras, of course, for The Vanguard, including these reviews with, so these are the top bonus reviews

from Mark. Yeah, two new reviews. The Colours Within, which is an anime which I really enjoyed, and Luther, Never Too Much, which is a documentary about Luther Vandross. One of the things when I was watching the doc trying to get a definitive on Vandross or Vandros is it seems to be interchangeable depending on which American is saying it. Oh, okay. I've never known that there was any dispute. I just said Luther Vandross. Yeah, but many, many people in this documentary say Luther Vandross. Okay, well that's all in our bonus section. Along with Weekend Watchlist TV Movie of the Not List, one frame back is relating to Mike

Lee films, plus your questions answered as best we can in questions. You can get everything via Apple Podcasts or head to extra takes.com for non-fruit related devices. Seven day free trial, extraordinary value. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter, as always, we salute you. An email here from Ian, dear yes for R2 and for R2 yes. Much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news, I have to burst Mark's bubble that the Isle of Man was the first place to give all women the bubble that the Isle of Man was the first place to give all women the vote. The Isle of Man gave women landowners the vote in 1881, making them the first women to vote for a parliament. A good fact and of itself, but didn't enact

universal suffrage until much later, 1919. The first women to vote in elections were in fact, the female landowners of Friesland, a province in the Dutch Republic, obviously part of Scandinavia, way back in 1689. Sweden in 1718, Corsica 1755, New Jersey 1776, Hawaii 1840, and others followed suit, enacting women's suffrage to some degree before the first country to enact full national suffrage in parliamentary elections, giving every woman the same rights to vote as a man, which was in 1893. Which country would you think it was? I don't know. New Zealand is the answer. Oh, actually I had heard that. Yes, that's right.

Okay. So Ian, thank you very much. Can I just say, Ian, yes I know, but look. So you knew the truth before you spouted your twist in this motion. No, what I said was, the Isle of Man was the first place to give women the vote. I did know the provisor that actually it was women landowners. I knew women we liked. Yeah, I know, but look, come on. I mean, the list of things with which to sort of champion the great political history of the Isle of Man is not that long.

But it's interesting that the female landowners of Friesland, so it was still landowners, they got there in 1689, which is genuinely astonishing. Yes, yes, yes. But more astonishing that the Manx did it first. Except first being... Print the myth. 1919 as opposed to 1689? Dear 24th and 25th of December says John, aged 25 in Liverpool, Firstly, I would like to ask your good selves, what are your thoughts on,

according to the evening standard, Keir Starmer's new Mark Kermode quiff? I'm sure we can all agree, Mark has the second best quiff in showbiz after the late great David Lynch, whom we lost last week. There are photographs of Keir Starmer's, what they're calling A-list new look tech bro t-shirts, ties and a Mark Kermode quiff. Then you look at the photograph of Keir Starmer, in which he's looking perfectly respectable and quite similar to you, but in no sense does he have a quiff. No, no, no. All I can say is that, I mean, obviously I woke up in the morning that this

happened to a million messages of everyone saying, but all I can say is that having previously been compared to Michael Gove, I will take Keir Starmer basing his hair on me any day. But it's not a quiff. No, Keir brushes his hair back. It's just the fact that it's a slightly old bloke with grey hair, slick back and a jacket and glasses. I mean, that's the other thing and glasses. Anyway, look, I would much rather be compared to Keir Starmer than Michael Gove. That's all I'm saying. John, thank you very much. All the other people who've been sending that in. Okay. Correspondence at CoderMayor.com. Tell us, oh right. Okay. Well, look, Mark, what will you be reviewing today? Introduce us to your review here.

Well, before I do introduce you to my review of Hard Truths, let's just recall your introduction to Mike Lee last week. It's very nice of you to spend some time with us. Thank you very much indeed. Mike, introduce us to your film, please. Introduce us to the Hard Truths of your movie. Should I try and move it closer? No, no, it's not a question, it's a double question.

I'd rather not answer that question, I'm sorry. Okay, and thank you very much to people who wrote in. Is it grumpy or get that is it? It wasn't a dumb question, it's obviously the first question that you asked. First of all, if you're interviewing the director, or to be honest, an actor, you say, okay, introduce us to your, that's the whole point of doing the interview. We didn't talk about it afterwards because it was, it happens sometimes that we did that interview after we'd recorded the podcast, just because that's when we became available.

I should tell you, just to kind of put this in context, I mean, I've interviewed Mike Lee several times over decades. The very first time I ever interviewed him, the interview was quite sticky because he's not crazy about interviews. The interview was quite sticky. I at one point wanted to sort of demonstrate to him that I did know about his work. Just apropos of nothing, because I was interviewing him about something else. Anyway, I said, incidentally, Mike, did you see the piece in the monthly film bulletin about you? He said, yes, I read it. It was absolutely rubbish. It was so bad. And I went, I wrote that. And Mike Lee went, he said, oh, look, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be rude. And you know, it's, I'm just, you know, obviously this is a difficult process. He said, anyway,

it isn't the worst thing that was ever written about me. He said, the worst thing that was ever written about me was the sleeve notes of the connoisseur video. I went, yeah, I wrote them too. Will Barron Well, I mean, my approach to this is if you don't want to do interviews, fine, by all means don't do interviews. It's your film. You can talk about it or not talk about it. This is entirely down to you. But if you are going to do it, it does help if you are, I don't know, courteous. I thought you won him over spectacularly and by the end of it he was saying thank you very much. I think that's because you were doing the questions and he's obviously warmed to you over the years.

It's a long process. It is. Anyway, enough for last week. Tell us about this week. Yeah, so this is the latest from Mike Chucklesley, who's the guy behind Nuts in May, Life is Sweet, Secrets and Lies, Topsy Turvy, Peterloo. So his films run the gamut from on the one hand, there are sort of side splitting comedies like Nuts in May, which I think is one of the funniest films ever made and Heartbreaking Tragedy in all points in between, often in the same film as particularly here. So Marianne Jean-Baptiste, who was so brilliant in

Secrets and Lies, is pansy. She's got a fantastically dyspeptic view of the world. She's a tortured soul filled with bitterness and anger. And that is gradually revealed to be the symptoms of a sort of underlying traumatic deep-seated depression. Although crucially, it's never explained exactly why she is like she is. You have to kind of infer it. She lives with her partner and her son, both of whom she hectars and belittles. She seems to dislike everything and everyone, rails against the world. When she goes to the supermarket, she gets into a fight with the till assistant by just telling her off. And even when her sister Chantelle, brilliantly played by Michelle Austin, cuts her hair, she has a go at her as well. Here's a clip.

You wouldn't like it if I taught you odd girls like that. And said what? Why are you going out exposing your belly to the world? What you doing dressed up in a squeeze-up tie-top yoga pants and you're not even in the gym? You wouldn't like it. You wouldn't like it at all. Some sisters are close, you know. Some sisters confide in each other.

You can confide in me. No, if I don't call you, you don't call me. I call you. No, I have to call you and say, oh, Chantelle, my hair needs doing. Oh, Chantelle, my back is hurting. Can you pick me up a couple of things from Gilbert? I call you. Hey, put down them scissors. You're getting aggressive. I mean, the key to that is I have to call you to tell you my back isburn. I call you. Hey, put down them scissors. You're getting aggressive. I mean, the key to that is I have to call you to tell you my back is hurting. I have to call you

to tell you to go and get stuff for me from Kilburn. I have to call you to tell you to cut my hair. So at times she's a bit like the David Thewlis Johnny from Naked, except her anger and depression seems far more debilitating. Or, you know, maybe she's like the flip side of, you remember we interviewed Sally Hawkins when Happy Go Lucky came out and she plays Poppy and Poppy is relentlessly kind of upbeat. And I said at one point that, you know, the hard truth could be called unhappy go unlucky. Chantelle on the other hand, her sister is sort of happy go lucky and the two sisters grew up in the same house, utterly different worldviews,

and how they have become such different people. As I said, it's never explained away, but you are encouraged to decide for yourself what's happened. Now, this is, as you said in the interview, it's the last feature to be shot by Dick Pope, who was Lee's long time cinematographer, and he's a great cinematographer, died in October. And the way that these characters are arrived at, and again, it is worth listening to that interview because despite the grumpiness at the beginning of it, Simon did get Mike to sort of talk about his process, which really involves getting actors to find their own characters,

so that when they put them together in a drama, the actors completely believe in their characters and the characters are completely three-dimensional. And I think that is the most important thing about Hard Truths is you believe in these two sisters, you believe in their world, you believe in their families because the actors completely believe in them. And there's a famous story that when Tim Spall played Turner

in Mr. Turner, he learned to paint because he thought, how am I going to play a painter if I can't paint? And then of course he carried on being a painter afterwards. So I think you completely believe in the characters. However, what's interesting is the way in which you react to the characters can be very different. So Pansy is, she's full of this bitterness and anger, but she's often very funny, but shey is, she's full of this bitterness and anger, but she's often very funny, but she doesn't think she's funny. And she doesn't see the funniness in, you know,

when she's doing the thing about, you know, oh yeah, with your belly showing out, and you're not even in the gym. And rightly in that interview referred to them as like, you know, pansy-isms. And the pansy-isms are funny, but I've seen the film a couple of times now. The first time I saw it, I saw it on my own and I did find it a kind of a sort of a bleak portrait

of somebody who's completely engulfed by depression. The next time I saw it, I saw it at a festival with an audience and they were laughing at the pansies and that goes, oh, actually there's a lot of comedy in this. And I think that one of the reasons that the comedy works is because Pansy doesn't, Marion Jean-Baptiste playing Pansy doesn't find it funny at the time. So it's completely straight face. So it's like that kind of, you know,

that the same deadpan comedy that goes right back to Knots in May and Abigail's Party. It's painful, but it is funny. Comedy and tragedy are intertwined in art as in life. I think this is a really fine film. There was talk about it possibly being an Oscar contender, but that was always a bit of an outside thing. But I don't really think in the end this is something you judge. I said to, we were talking last week about whether or not this is a classic, you judge. I mean, I said to, we were talking last week about whether or not this is a classic,

I think this is one of the essential Lees. And I think it is a kind of distilled essence of what it is that Mike Lee does when he's at the top of his game. But it is, I said, tragedy and comedy intertwined. And the funny thing is looking back on that interview, and I just want to say this, I think you handled it brilliantly because I don't think I would have handled it as well as you did. But that's the thing. The film, like Mike Lee, it's got all those things in it. And it can be great and sweet, but it can also bite. And that's what I think. On the comedy side, I think you laugh and then you stop laughing. Yes. Because to start with it's funny and then you begin to realise quite how ill she must be. Exactly.

Be like that. And then those caustic, bitter lines become tragic. Yes. And you laugh for half an hour and then you stop. Yeah. And you raise a very interesting point that you thought that the film had been influenced by COVID and, you know, mightily poo-pooed this, but that doesn't mean that he knows because he just made the film. We watched it. I definitely, definitely think, and I know that Marianne actually thinks this as well, that the character that she plays was made worse by lockdown.

Yes. And I think that that is true. And I think that actually your point is very valid. I think whatever Mike thinks, it is a post lockdown movie. And I would say this, I think there isn't anyone else making films like Mike Lee. And this is one of the, I think this is one of the best Mike Lee's and I think it's, you know, I would advise everybody to see it. But it is comedy and tragedy and the tragedy is properly painful, properly you know there's proper hurt in there and a lot of that is due to the brilliance of the performances. I think both Marianne Jean-Baptiste and Michelle Austin are both spectacularly good. It's an interesting email about it from Anna Watson in Clapham.

Dear Chicken and Chips, I found it really painful to watch. I did laugh a few times, but mostly I just felt that this character was so angry and fearful that her life was quite distressing to witness. Other audience members laughed more than I did. I did think often it was in the way people laugh out of awkwardness. I found her character and situation too tragic to be funny. The acting is incredible and all the characters are so believable. I know Mike Lee would never do something as banal as have a character arc or as unrealistic as a plot, but the lack of resolution makes it a bitter ending.

Having written that, I realized that the fact I ended up caring so much about her sons and husband's fates is testament to the great acting. It was visually beautiful, and I loved the pace of the editing too. Lots to like, but a tough watch. Yes. I think that is a perfectly pitched email and review. Just to say, because of the way that Mike Lee's process works, actors often do their best work for him, with him, because as he said in the interview, they are part of the collaborative process. They are an essential part of the collaborative process. You know, what he used to call devised and directed by now calls written and directed by. And there really isn't anyone else working in that way. I mean, Sean Baker talks about taking inspiration from Mike Lee, but Mike Lee's process is completely unique and that's why you get those performances.

Box Office top 10 this week. Surprisingly, we're starting at number 10 with Presence and an email from Paul. Yes. I know Mark thought the film was incidental Soderbergh, but as a parent, I found it powerful and disturbing. The horror of the film was the incidental nature of it all. There is so much apathy. For example, Lucy Liu disengaged at family dinner on her phone while you could feel the foreboding grow. It was the familial failures to act and the ease with which the horrors happened that left me thinking about the film for the rest of the weekend. In a way, it feels like Soderbergh disguised the film as incidental

to demonstrate the ease at which we can sleepwalk into irreversible horror. David H says, a long time Lister first time writer, I was left flabbergasted by how awful it was from the corny POV cinematography, awkward acting, excruciating dialogue and go nowhere plot. I would say it seemed like an amateur production by a local film club, but that is an insult to the aspiring filmmakers of this country. By my count, seven people walked out of our screening before the credits rolled. I am dumbfounded to see the movie has been well received by critics and fans alike. Yeah. I mean, as I said, I didn't think, I said at the time, I didn't think it was going to do well at the box

office. I thought it was kind of an incidental, experimental Soderbergh. I think of the first email, it's very well expressed. And I do agree that it is essentially a drama about a family coming apart that happens to have a ghost story in it, which is fine up until the point that it turns into something else. I don't want to spoil it for anybody, but there is a point at which it becomes a different movie, like a thriller movie. That's when the wheels come off. Soderbergh makes these things fast. Like I said, there's another one on the way almost immediately. If you don't like this one, wait, there'll be another one in five minutes. Baby Girl is at nine.

Which I liked more than some people, but I think it's a serious attempt to do a film about, you know, about our needs and desires. We Live in Time is at number eight. Which works largely because it's got two very charming central performances. I don't think the film is brilliant, but I think it is very charming. US number five, but UK number seven, that's Moana 2. And that's why it ended up in cinemas not going straight to streaming services, because it's done really well.

Nosferatu is number six, number 12 in America. Nosferatu, yes, I could quite happily go and watch this again in the cinema because it just looked so great. I mean, just the visuals are so exciting. Mason-The Brutalist is at number five. Obviously, there'll be more with this when we get to Brady Corbyn chat in a moment. DB says, a flawed film in parts, but compelling and well-made. The score and Felicity Jones are outstanding. Maybe a more apt title would be the brutalized, reflecting on the experiences of the characters and the themes of trauma and hope or lack of.

Interesting too, the upside down Statue of Liberty at the start and the inverted image of a cross at the end. Early days, but this is a good year for film so far. An anonymous email, long-term listener, I will try and keep this succinct. It's not a film about architecture in the same way Jaws is not a film about sharks. We've already established that Jaws is a film about sharks. Is it about architecture? Well, I completely agree with that. Although there is coming up in this show, your interview with Brady Corbett, which is very interesting in which you do actually ask him specifically about this and he gives a fascinating answer.

Also, this email from Jez and a few others. This is actually addressed to you, Mark. In your recent review of The Brutalist, you said, quote, I know there has been some scuffle about the use of AI and haven't really followed it, to be honest. I'm not really interested. Earlier in the review, you talk about the production of VistaVision and how it's a complicated process. Don't you think that as someone interested in how films are made, the use of AI is vitally connected to this process? The use of AI in The Brutalist uses re-speecher technology, which enables one person to speak in the voice of another person using artificial intelligence. The use of touch-up techniques has been standard in various industries for years,

and whether you agree about its use or not is a separate debate. But don't you think that it's an important consideration? Regardless of how you personally feel about this issue, I think the use of AI is going to be a more pertinent issue in the future. So I would ask that you please do consider it when reviewing films, all the rest of the time.

Of course, I'm able to say to you, Simon does raise this with Brady Corbett in the interview which is coming up later on. And if we, I think probably the best thing is to talk about that after the interview, if that's okay. Number four in the UK, number one in America is the very special flight risk. And the fact that it's number one in America

just tells you everything you need to know about that country at this moment in time. Due to the miracle of social media, I had the flurry of, oh, he's just getting off his bike and he's attacking Christians and conservatives and he's all politics and blah blah blah. Okay, so I just want to say two things. Firstly, the film's an utter stinker and even the boldness is unconvincing. And secondly, the film's an utter stinker and even the baldness is unconvincing. And secondly, all film is political and when a film is literally made by somebody who has been appointed as an ambassador to the president of the United States, I think it's perfectly legitimate to start talking about the politics at the beginning. There we go. Paul says, the film's awesome. Go on. No, it's just a terrible film.

Paul says, unlike me to be film of the year, but a fun light popcorn movie. Worst part was undoubtedly Wohlberg's faux baldness. Will Flight Risk win any awards? Unlikely, but a fun way to kill 90 minutes. I can see why Trump has appointed Mel Gibson as a Hollywood ambassador for his imagination. See, that works. Apparently in the director's extended cut, Jim Caviezel appears making a divine impression.

Well, as I said, it's coming. Passion of the Christ 2, Resurrection Boogaloo, this time it's personal. It's on the way. Yes. I'm trying to think of a catch, a strap line, which is- I'll be back. That's what they should use. Oh, I'll be back. Yes, that's fine. Yeah, that's fine. No one can hear you. There's a hilarious moment everyone forgets at the end of Passion of the Christ, when the risen Christ gets up and as his hand passes between his body and the camera, there's a big hole that you can see through his hand. And you go,

oh, really? Number three, number four in America is Sonic the Hedgehog 3. Yeah. I've run out of things to say about it, but except amazingly still doing business. Farce of the Lion King is at number two. It's at number two in America as well. I think we were both disappointed, but we both thought that he gave it his best shot, but it's not right. Number one here, but only number eight in America is a complete unknown. Matthew from Edinburgh. Dear folk legend, the folk legend and Judas, I was predisposed to love this film as I'm a huge Dylan fan having read multiple biographies and seen him live many times, including in Edinburgh last year.

I was glad they showed Dylan in an honest way and seeing 60s New York on screen was an absolute joy. I'm not ashamed to admit when Bob Dylan sang Song for Woody, Two Peets a Gap and Woody Guthrie, I had tears streaming down my face and the film only got better from there because that's one of the opening moments. I didn't mind the heckle moving from Manchester to Newport at all, especially as for years, the bootleg with the Judas concert was passed around. It was listed as the Albert Hall gig. So the origin of what is probably the world's most famous ever heckle has

never, has always been murky. Plus Dylan himself has always been an unreliable narrator of his own story, which I think is in keeping with this representation. Yeah, that's a fair point. Okay. After the break, what do you have? story which I think is in keeping with this representation. Matthew, thank you very much. That's a fair point. Okay, after the break, what do you have? Saturday Night, which is a film about the origins of Saturday Night Live and our special guest. Yes, it's the director of The Brutalist. That'll be Brady Courbet. Next.

What's up, Mark? All's well. How about you? Well, I've been thinking about that cushion that we gave away at our live show. Yeah. That and the pencil case. Imagine if we had a load more that we needed to shift. Imagine the riches. Every bottom or pencil case in the country would be graced in some way by our presence. Well, when you put it like that, we should have used Shopify. Shopify is the commerce

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Well this show is sponsored by NordVPN. Hey Mark, you know what people say about this time of year? That it's perfect for huddling together with a warm blanket, a mug of cocoa and the best movies and of course movie podcasts around? Well, ideal for taking an early ski trip to L'Alp de Huy. What's wrong with the Alps? Yeah, well, I was going to say that it's dank, dark and miserable, but you convinced me really. And if you're here or there, whatever you're watching, Pleasures, Nord can help.

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Turnage. Festin from the 11th to the 27th of February at the Royal Opera House. Tickets from just £8 book now at rbo.org.uk. So this week's guest is Brady Courbet. His film The Brutalist has been nominated for 10 Oscars, including Best Picture and director. We'll discuss that in a moment. And it is only his third feature, which is pretty good. We reviewed it last week on the show, but I only got to speak to him yesterday. You'll hear my conversation with Brady Courbet after this clip. We'll talk about the details at home, which will be well compensated. And also, you'll be given a place here on the property to live and work. I think that residing here will allow you the time and the space to conceive of it properly. And your family, should they arrive, they're welcome here too.

What do you say? And that is a brief extract from The Brutalist. I'm delighted to say we've been joined by its director, Brady Corbett. Brady, hello. How are you, sir? I'm very well. Thanks for having me. You look as though you're in a cinema somewhere.

Indeed, I am. I'm at the Curzon Soho where the film opened earlier this week. Okay. Did you go along or have you seen it enough times? I have seen it more times actually than anything else I've ever made. You know, just because the film is premiering in so many formats, we had to approve each 70 millimeter print, each 35 millimeter print, and of course the DCPs and as well as the network grades. So I, you know, I really learned my lesson and was punished for

making such a long film. Well, you've been punished by 10 Oscar nominations, including for you as best director. And I know that, so this is new for us. It's old for you because you've been working on it for seven plus years. When you turn the light out at night, you must be very, very excited and buzzy about this. I haven't really had the chance yet, I think,

to process what this means for the future of my collaborators and my films moving forward. Obviously, it seems very positive, but what's most important to us is is that because filmmaking is a freelance job and there's very little job security, really at any point in your career you never know if you're gonna make a movie again. So frankly I'm just thrilled to have a strong sense that as long as we're able to make the next film for a reasonable

number and I think that we can, that we will be making another movie again very soon. Yeah. I mean, presumably 10 Oscar nominations, whatever happens at the ceremony guarantees a lot of interest and presumably a bigger budget than $10 million. Is that true that you did the whole thing for 10 million? I can't imagine that. It is absolutely true. The thing is though, is that because autonomy is so important to me, my next film, just because of inflation really, will probably be closer to $15 to

$17 million. But it's important to me to keep it as well under $20 million as possible, just so that we're able to make something which is uncompromising and radical that can actually make its money back. Because there's of course a lot of waste in film production, and so we are always doing our very best to make sure that every dollar ends up on screen. There's a moment in your movie, In The Brutalist, where Guy Pearce's Van Buren says to Adrian Brody's Laszlo Todd, why architecture? So that's where I'm starting there.

I just want to say that to you too. Why architecture? Why did you decide on this as a theme? Well, for a variety of reasons. My first film, for example, The Childhood of a Leader, was about the interwar period and the six months leading up to the signing of the Treaty of Versailles. It, too, was a post-war film about post-war psychology following the First World War. Vox Lux was a film about post-Columbine and post-9-11 psychology in America.

And so of course I'd wanted to do something on the post-war years after the Second War for some time. And Brutalism felt like the right visual allegory to explore that period of time, because Brutalism came about in the 1950s. And, you know, it's such a hotly debated, even to this day, style of architecture, especially, you know, with the context that this came from the era of, you know, I love Lucy, you know? And I mean, these buildings must have appeared to be especially radical at that time.

And so, you know, I also felt that there were not a lot of films strangely on the subject of architecture, you know, prior to, you know, Francis's movie, Megalopolis, this year. The last movie I could really think of was Peter Greenaway's The Belly of an Architect and then King Vador's film, The Fountainhead before that. I'm sure I'm missing a few here and there, but there's surprisingly few films on the subject. So I thought that it would be a great subject to tackle.

The other thing, of course, is that filmmaking and architecture have a lot in common. It is not something that you can do by yourself in your bedroom or by yourself in your studio. It is something that requires a lot of capital. It requires a lot of social management, usually with hundreds of individuals that have never worked together before. And so those parallels sort of drew me to it because I felt that it was something that, you know, more or less was a medium I really understood. I came to see and think about Guy Pearce's Harrison Van Buren as Harrison Van Netflix. That he's the guy with the money and then he just wants to tell you what to do. Is that unfair?

Well no comment because I think it's on a case by case basis and there are certainly many films that would not exist without their support. But I also think it really, it's about the individual. I've worked with executives on projects that were the best people I've ever worked with and were incredibly supportive. And I've also worked with real antagonists. And this film is of course based on a lot of those antagonistic relationships and experiences that my partner Mona and I have had over the years.

So this film is made in the style of a 1950s melodrama. So our antagonist is the sort of antagonist that you might find in a 1950s melodrama, you know, Joseph Gottin, James Mason, you know sort of comeist that you might find in a 1950s melodrama. Joseph Gottin, James Mason sort of come to mind. But I did feel that it was important to imbue certain details with real authenticity, even though the film is, of course, very heightened and it's structured like an opera. Can I ask you about Adrian Brody's Laszlo Tott at the heart of the film? I was reading the screenplay this morning for your film and the first time we meet Laszlo,

it says he is malnourished, has a badly broken nose and he has the face of an immigrant. I thought that was a fantastically powerful line and presumably that's a long time before Adrian Brody comes along or was that written with him in mind? Oh yeah, I mean it was years before Adrian came on board because the screenplay was written in 2017. Adrian and I, when we first sat down, he was like, you know, he was like, he said, I've had my nose broken three times. And he was telling me so much about what he had in common with this character because his, you know, family fled Hungary in 1956 during the revolution. But, you know, to be honest, it is not because of his family history that I decided to ask him to do this. It's because when we met and we spoke about the material, he had not only this sort of

fundamental understanding of the film's intention, but also had just this very graceful quality that reminded me of Gregory Peck or actors of a bygone era. And I felt that he would imbue the character with this sort of warmth that was not on the page. And it was intentionally not on the page because I like characters to be a sort of empty vessel for the performer to project themselves on to is one thing and then the other thing is is that typically in survivor stories survivors are free they're they're frequently portrayed as altruists or you know these these angels which I think suggests that audiences there's some anticipation the audiences will not be able to empathize with someone because they're flawed and i just think that's very disturbing because none of us are perfect and this character has and his wife have been through, they've been through hell and back again. Of course,

you know, that has changed them forever. And it is, it has hardened them and, and him especially, it's made him, you know, a cynical and even occasionally self-absorbed. But I knew that with Adrian, you know, in the driver's seat, that he would, you know, he is an empathy generating machine. And so I never had to worry about audiences connecting with his character even though he is imperfect. And it comes, your movie comes, even though it's been on the way for seven years, it comes out at a time when emigration and immigration is at the very heart of an awful lot of political conversation in around Europe and particularly in the US at the moment. This your movie will be seen as part of that conversation. Won't it? It has some very strong things to say about the role of the other and what they bring to us in inverted commas. Yeah, I mean, you know, in 2017, of course, there was a different immigration crisis that

was happening at the time. And so, I mean, sadly, I think that this film could be released at any time, and it would, you know, still be relevant. And I try to try to choose material and themes that, you themes that will never not be relevant, because I never know when these movies are ultimately going to get made when I finish writing them. And I certainly don't know when people are going to watch them. I don't know if they're watching them this season, next year,

or a hundred years from now. So I think that sadly history, as we all know, repeats itself and that this is a very, very ugly cycle that our film is trying to explore. How, what and why? How do we get here? Mason Hickman As you look to storytelling in the future and your next movie and so on, Brady. What have you learned about how useful or otherwise AI is to the filmmaking process? Should we be excited or should we be scared about what it brings to moviemaking? Oh, I mean, the answer is absolutely both. It depends on how it's being handled. If it's

being handled ethically, then it's fantastic. If it's being handled unethically, then it's being handled ethically, then it's fantastic. And if it's being handled unethically, I mean, then it's extremely nerve wracking. In our case, what was of the utmost importance to Felicity, Adrian and myself, was representation. So we wanted Hungarians to be able to watch this film and have the Hungarian dialogue be absolutely flawless. So Adrian and Felicity still had to learn how to speak Hungarian for their roles, but able to watch this film and have the Hungarian dialogue be absolutely flawless. So Adrian and Felicity still had to learn how to speak Hungarian for their roles, but we used the technology to dialogue, edit vowels, consonants, and certain aggressive sounds to remove anything that would give away in their Hungarian dialogue an English or American

accent. And so, you know, I think it's very exciting technology. Also, Adrian and Felicity own their own vocal models in perpetuity. So, you know, no one can use it without their permission. And the company that worked on it is an extraordinary company called Respeacher based out of Kiev, Ukraine. And this was a manual process. So I think that there's an automatic assumption that it's eliminating jobs as opposed to

creating jobs. But many, many engineers were working on this and it added an additional seven or eight people to the sound team. And finally, Brady, of the 10 Oscars that you've been, that have come your way, which of them are you most excited about other than for yourself and for Best Picture? Which of the others gave you the most pleasure when you heard of the nominations? Oh, I mean, to be honest, I didn't get a particular thrill out of seeing my name up there. It was seeing my cinematographer, my production designer, my composer, and my partner, Mona,

all nominees. That meant a lot to me because a director always gets so much attention anyhow that you know there are so many producers and so many folks that make these films possible that it's most important to me to see that they are getting their flowers and and it's also very important for their careers you know I mean that's attached to the name for their names for the rest of their careers. And I hope that it helps them get all the work that they want to work on. Brady, thank you very much indeed for your time.

I appreciate it. And all the best for Oscar evening, however you spend it. Thank you, pal. I really appreciate it. I do think that out of all of that, Brady Corbett has made filmmakers' job a lot more difficult because if you can make an epic movie of the length that this one is in VistaVision and get 10 nominations for Oscars and all the other awards and you can bring it in for under $10 million, it's just... And it doesn't look like an indie pick, does it? It looks like a very expensive feature. That's an astonishing achievement, really.

It is. There's so many great things in that interview. Great interview on your part and also brilliant answers from him. The things that I sort of focused on, I love the fact that you asked him about why architecture. I thought his answer about brutalism relates to an email earlier on about, is it actually about architecture? I thought his answer was very interesting about why brutalism particularly and why this period. I thought the fact that he brought up Fountainhead, obviously that is in the back of all of this, but He brought up fountainhead, obviously. I mean, obviously that is in the back of all of this, but it was interesting to hear him say that.

And then very specifically in relation to the question which was asked by an email earlier on about how we should approach AI, I thought that his answer that, you know, you said, should we be excited or should we be terrified? And his answer was absolutely both. That in the right hands, it's exciting, and in the wrong usage, it's terrifying. And I thought it was actually very interesting the way he talked about the very specific use of it for making the dialogue correct, the fact that the voice,

that the actors own the voice model. And I actually thought that was completely legitimate. I thought he gave a very thoughtful and fulsome answer to that question. I think there was one other thing I wanted to mention, but you have a certain period of time apart from the Thunderbirds movie. It was the fact that if, obviously this is fiction, a lot of people feel as though it's like a biopic, but it isn't. It's all completely made up. There was no Laszlo Tott.

But if you combine fact and fiction, if you were a Hungarian architect and working with modernism and brutalism, he would have known and be acquainted with Erno Goldfinger, who was this modernist architect from Hungary who settled in Britain, who Ian Fleming took against and so made him into Goldfinger in the James Bond books. But I just thought, okay, if they'd talked about Goldfinger, everyone would have gone, what? What? And then they've had to explain so much.

So is that why Fleming's Goldfinger is called Goldfinger? Yeah, he took against a block of flats that Goldfinger had made. I hate Brutalism. I think just everything. Oh really? Oh. Yes. I really, really dislike it.

Anyway, but Ian Fleming hated it and so turned Goldfinger into this baddie. There was a legal case, I think, and they settled out to court and Ian Fleming sent him half a dozen books or something anyway. I think he threatened to rename him Erno Golddick or something like that. Anyway, it's all out there, but it would have been a distraction, I think, to discussion about the movie. Well, I just want to say, I'm a fan of brutalism and I, you know, I mean, what I know about architecture wouldn't fill the back of a postage stamp, but I am a fan of brutalism and I do

find the lines of it very, and you know, I spent a long time in Hume, which is not brutalist, but it's kind of, you know, in that same ballpark and there is, I have visited some beautiful brutalist buildings. Is there any brutalism in Cornwall? I suspect not. Not much. Not much. I do see. Is there any brutalism in Cornwall? Not much. Not much. I think not. If you want to read the full review, by the way, of the brutalist is of course in last

week's episode and it went slightly out of sequence because of the way Brady became available, but it made it more interesting I think because the fact that he was saying he gets more excited about the fact that his cinematographer has been nominated. I should say best original score for Daniel Bloomberg who is a Londoner and I think went to the same school as Childe Wan. Yeah, wow. It's a great score. It's a great score. Daniel Bloomberg is a very fine composer. Okay, so correspondents at KermitandMayer.com, whatever you think of architecture, brutalism or the brutalist. What else is out?

Saturday night. As you probably know, Saturday Night Live is currently in its 50th anniversary celebrations. It's this American series goes out live on Saturday night as the title suggests, that has sort of helped the careers of Chevy Chase, John Belushi, Dan Aykroyd, Billy Crystal, spawned a bunch of movies from Blues Brothers to Wayne's World. So this is a film about the first night of Saturday Night Live co-written and directed by Jason Reitman, son of Ivan Reitman, who directed Ghostbusters. Jason Reitman would then later go on to pick up the mantle in the most recent Ghostbusters thing, and several Ghostbusters franchise cast members

have in the past gone through the ranks of SNL. So it's October 11th, 1975, day of the first broadcast. Lorne Michaels is played by Gabriella Bell, is trying to get the show on air without really being able to describe what it is. Everyone is in a panic. Billy Crystal, these are all people playing, I'm not gonna do everyone's names. Billy Crystal is worried about getting his time cut.

Frank Oz doesn't have a script and he thinks his muppets aren't being taken seriously. Andy Kaufman is being Andy Kaufman. Chevy Chase is being Chevy Chase. John Belushi's gone missing because he didn't want to dress up as a bee. Meanwhile, the host, George Carlin, hates the show. He's done too much of something. Milton Berle drops by to show them all what a real star looks like. Johnny Carstens wants everything to go wrong and rings up to Johnny Carsten on the phone saying the wheel's going to come off. Meanwhile, Willem Dafoe is David Tebbitt, who is an executive who has no faith in the

show and is sorely tempted to just run a Johnny Carson tape instead. Here's a clip. I can only imagine what must be running through your mind. No matter how improbable, that you might not take it to there. That didn't even occur to me. Really? I heard that you were having some technical difficulties.

Not that I know of. What the fuck? I just heard that your writers were stoned, your actors were physically assaulting each other. Shut up! The sound system was down. What the hell is happening? And a fire broke out earlier.

We want to stop! I've been doing this job a long time, I've seen it all. I'm sure you have it all under control. That gives you a sense of the somewhat frantic air of the piece. Amongst the various cast members, you've got a dual role for Nicholas, is it Braun or Brown? B-R-A-U-N, the guy from Succession who plays both Andy Kaufman and Jim Hensel. It's perfectly possible to watch the movie without figuring that out. And of course, they're Willem Dafoe as the executive. So, are you interested in Saturday Night Live, Simon?

If I'm honest, not particularly, because whenever I've watched it, I found it incredibly unfunny. But that might be because I don't get a lot of the things that they're making jokes about. Okay. I like some of the stuff that's come out of Saturday Night Live, but I wouldn't make a beeline for it because it hasn't been part of my life. Fine. And I think a lot of UK audiences will find the same thing. Apparently when Chevy Chase saw the movie, when Jason Reitman showed it to him, he said

afterwards, he came up to me, patted me on the shoulder and goes, well, you should be embarrassed, which is very, very Chevy chase. The thing it reminded me of a little bit, there was a TV movie in the late 90s called The Late Show, which is based on Bill Carter's book about the Letterman-Leno debacle. And at that point, I was actually very interested in American late night talk shows, comedy shows, not least because we'd done the Danny Baker after all. Danny Baker was very, very influenced by David Letterman. When Letterman saw that film, he said it was the biggest waste of film since my wedding photos.

So obviously, people involved in think disowning is one thing. I think the problem is that I am kind of interested in SNL, although I do share the reservations. I watch the clips of like, you know, weekend updates on YouTube. The problem is with this film is it has a sense of it being an in-joke inflated to make a drama when honestly I am interested in this stuff but I would rather watch a documentary about it. I mean the whole thing is turned up to 11. You heard from that clip, you know, things got very, very frantic. It's like the opening moments of broadcast news, the thing when they're trying to get the tape into the machine at the right time so that they hit the broadcasting. There's this frantic bit at the beginning of broadcast news, which is a film

I love. But it's like that all the way through and it's like the old Michael Bol broadcast thing. It's this frantic bit at the beginning of broadcast news, which is a film I love, but it's like that all the way through. And it's like the old Michael Bolton thing. If you're doing that in verse one, where are you gonna go for the chorus? You know, you've already gone up to 11. So yes, there was a lot of madness behind Saturday Night Live's creation, but the stuff on screen, even the stuff that may be true,

all seems like absolutely overcooked fantasy. I mean, if the show was anything like the way it's portrayed in this, it would never have gotten air. I understand this is a comedy, not a documentary. I understand it's a drama, not a documentary. But there's a lot of wiggy, chubby humming. And the main problem is that if you know about this stuff, you'll be kind of put off by the level of dramatization and liberty taking and all the rest of it. And if you don't know about this stuff, you'll spend most of the film going, who's that?

What? Because like I said, it feels like a very big in joke. And I would happily watch a documentary about the first night of SNL, but I'm not sure that as a drama this works because for the people who know, they'll go, yeah, that's not right. And for the people who don't know, they'll go, sorry, I'm interested why. And I do think there is a pace problem, which is that if you just keep everything at that frantic level, which is the camera work and everything else doing, it gets a bit wearing.

Well, perfect cue, obviously, for the laughter lift, which you should consider a drama, not a comedy. Excellent. Expectations lowered. Well, hey, Mark. It won't surprise you to know that not only did I upset the good lady ceramicist who are indoors this weekend, but also everyone else in the Mayo family on Saturday night. Why, I hear you ask? Why, Simon? All because I put ginger in the curry. And they love that cat, apparently. How was I to know?

Local scouts were around this week doing odd jobs. They offered to paint my porch. Fine, I said, his, with four shillings and sixpence. And two hours later, they knocked on the door. We finished, they said. And by the way, that's a BMW, not a Porsche. Strongly worded letter to Bear Grylls is on the way. Oh, and by the way, Mark, have you had your invitation to this summer's star studded Sony Artists Party? I haven't. It's a barbecue on the beach, apparently. It's this year at beautiful Albra. Apparently,

Beyonce is going to be there and has asked if she can bring a few pals. In fact, she wants to bring all the Shingle ladies. That was a very long walk up a very long path to a very short punchline. Yes, that's right. They're a very awkward, shingly beach. Yes. No, I know. Famously, if you know Oldborough, then yes. Stick to the fish and chips rather than the beach is what I'd say. Anyway, what are you doing in the next bit? We're going to be reviewing Companion and I'm going to be attempting to tell you less about the film than either the trailer or the poster tells you. On the way. We are always wondering what the story is behind a song, and we thought, what better way to find out than by having authentic conversations

with the creators of the songs themselves. So join us for in-depth conversations with Ash, Licky Lee, Simmel, and many more. So grab those tissues, and let's get into it on the Sad Song Queens podcast, wherever you listen to podcasts. I am more than... Everything that was presented to me, I just swallowed completely whole.

We are one of the richest families in the world that could never change. We're Steinbergs. Like, we are Steinbergs. We're made of money. The family was drawn together by the money. I was so aware this could come to a screeching halt. You'd think I would have stopped. And then all of a sudden, the volcano erupts. I'm Ariel Levy, and this is the Just Enough Family. Binge all episodes now on Apple Podcasts. Email here from Chris in London. Mark and Simon, I'm writing to highlight the issues

currently facing the Prince Charles Cinema in London where the landlords are pushing to include a six-month break clause in the rental agreement in case of an offer to sell for redevelopment, which the management of the PCC are taking as a clear indication they intend to do so. As Mark has mentioned on the show many times, The Prince Charles is a wonderful cinema at the heart of London, with a true love of film baked into their programming. My own highlights there are too numerous to name them all, but quoting along to Christmas die-hard screenings, watching a live piano performance before a showing of Casablanca and being treated to an 8-bit disco set before watching Street Fighter, the movie. To lose this venue would be a heartbreaking and massive loss to the cinema landscape.

Anyone who'd like to support the PCC in their campaign can visit their website or search for hashtag Save the PCC for more information and to sign their petition. I'd ask anyone who's visited and enjoyed a movie there, we just want to support cinema in general to do so. Yeah. Love the show Steve and that's from Chris in London. You can find that petition quite easily. I mean, I've blue-skied it. I love the Prince Charles. When I was younger, I remember going uptown to see, I saw Caligula there for the first time, which was so exciting. We got for one of our children

a Prince Charles Year membership because they love the cinema so much. And of course you and I did a show from the Prince Charles. So yes, it's great. It is part of the heritage of London film exhibition. It's a really, it's a wonderful institution and please do check out whatever you can do to help it because it would be a great, great loss to the cinema going landscape if it wasn't there. Is there more time for a review? I think there is. There is.

So I'm going to be very, very careful about this, okay? Companion. I saw this, this is a great privilege of being a film critic. I saw this with no knowledge of anything about it at all. I just knew that it started at 10 o'clock on Monday morning in Warner's Aunt Thea Ball's Road, okay? I've subsequently seen the trailer and the poster, which I think give away too much. So I am, many of you will already know more

than I'm gonna tell you, because you will have seen the trailer, and you may have seen the poster, although you only see the poster up close, you realize what it's telling you. I'm going to attempt to review the film without the spoilers of the trailer, okay? Here are the first 33 seconds of the trailer.

There have been two moments in my life when I was happiest. The first was the day I met Josh. I'm Josh. I'm Iris. And the second, the day I killed him. Just relax. Remember to smile and act happy. Do they know? Iris, wake up. So you can hear from that, okay, creepy, satirical chiller that tagline a new kind of love story opens with a sort of Stepford wives image of a young woman walking in a slightly glazed way through a supermarket, sniffing the ripe fruit. And in the trailer, there are two cards that come up. One of them says that from the studio that brought you the notebook, which is the Nick Sparks adaptation with Rachel McCallum's Ryan Gosling, and the creators of Barbarian. Now, if you remember when I reviewed Barbarian,

which is a film by Zach Craigert, who's a producer on this, there was a whole thing about, you can't really review Barbarian because there's a thing that happens that you don't want to say anything about so it's quite difficult. This is weirdly similar. This is written and directed by Drew Hancock but it also has a thing that I don't want to tell you which is in the trailer but if you haven't seen the trailer don't see the trailer. So this star Sophie Thatcher who was one of the two girls in Heretic, which I loved, the Hugh Grant film. So she's Iris. And we know from the outset, from that, because that opening thing when she says those two moments that she met, fell in love with, and then killed Josh, who's played by Jack Quaid, son of Dennis Quaid and Meg Ryan. Then we see her and Josh in a smart car, which responds to Josh's voice. And they talk to the car as if it's a person, you know, thank you Josh's car. They're going to stay with some of Josh's friends in a

cabin in the woods. It's actually not a cabin, it's a mansion, and it's owned by Sergey, who's here, he's a gangster, he's very rich. Iris is nervous because she's terrified that Josh's friends don't like her, or won't like, at least least of all Megan's series cat who clearly hates her. And at one point she actually says, why do you hate me? And she says, I don't hate you. I hate the idea of you. You make me feel so replaceable. So maybe she's an ex, you know, maybe Josh threw her over and you know, now there's also Eli and his impossibly handsome boyfriend who tells everyone that he he's met the most beautiful man in the world.

The whole thing's a bit creepy. It's a bit off kilter because they all seem to treat Iris like she's an adornment or a bit of furniture, all except Sergey who drools over her and clearly has designs on her. So you've got that whole Stepford Wives, Ira Levin, Jordan Peele kind of thing. Why are these people acting weird? What are they up to? Then the morning after they arrive, she goes to the lakeside on her own. Josh wants to stay behind. You think, okay, he's up to something. Sergue turns up and things turn nasty. That's all I'll tell you because I think that you shouldn't know more than that. Now, one of the things I thought was really good about this

was Sergey is the best performance that Orlando Bloom has ever given. I was watching it thinking, wow, Orlando Bloom is absolutely brilliant. He's got this terrible mullet. He's really creepy. He's really good. It's a very, very self-effacing performance.

Then I realized why Orlando Bloom is so good. It's not Orlando Bloom, it's Rupert Friend. And so I was thinking, oh, he's being, oh no, not him, different, totally different, totally different actor and much better. But there was a weird thing going on that I thought it was Orlando Bland being really good. Beyond that, the only thing that what you need to know is that this is it's like a social satire, as I said, in the kind of Ira Levin, Jordan Peele, maybe even in the same way the kind of you know, M3 gun was. It's a film that uses an outlandish concept to discuss a very recognisable real life horror about the way people control their partners, you know, the way people's voices are silenced, the way Iris just accepts that her role in life is to love Josh and to make Josh happy. It's got a kind

of bitey sort of consumerist pastiche and greed and all human relationships are founded on, well, not love, but ownership. And there was one point in it when I remember, you know the Spielberg film AI, and the whole thing about AI is that David, the kid, loves his mum even though she drops him in the woods and leaves him to fend for himself. And there is this thing about, you know, why is it that Iris loves Josh as much as she does? I really enjoyed the film. I thought it was terrific. I thought it was smart and sharp and bitingly incisive. And the best thing about it was,

was that when the first reveal happened, I went, because I had absolutely no idea that that was where it was going. And if you've seen the trailer, you'll know. And if you've read the stuff, you'll know. And if you've seen the poster close up, you'll sort of, but if you haven't, do yourself a favor, go see this without before anyone else tells you anything about it. And I thought it was really good fun, really twisty, really turny,

really kind of, you know, great popcorn entertainment with a, you know, with something to say and a sort of exciting way of saying it. And I hope that I have managed to divulge less than the trailer did. Jackson Booth Millard in Bishop's Waltham in Southampton in an email which I will redact as I go through because he has not been as, well, it doesn't set out with the same premise. No, okay.

Harkin Simon, it's a smart, funny and twisted, scary movie with some science fiction and some comedy has a terrific script full of witty dark humor and eye catching violence and nastiness between the likable characters. I found myself rooting for the lead female characters, but she does. I laughed and I squirmed and I absolutely loved it. A pleasant surprise for a movie I didn't know was coming. And I will definitely be recommending to others. Yes, so that's pretty much it. Big, big thumbs up. It was such a treat. Monday morning, all I knew was 10 o'clock at Thea Balls

Road and then I just sat there and I thought, this is the best job in the world because I knew nothing about this at all. That is the end of take one. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team was Jen, Eric, Josh, Vicki, Zachy and Heather. The producer was Jem. The redactor was Simon Poole, who gets his surname mentioned every single week. If you're not following the pod already, what's wrong with you? Please do so wherever you get your podcasts. Mark, what is your film of the week? Absolutely Hard Truths, because I think it's remarkable, but I would really encourage people to see Compan companion as well.

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