Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Brendan Fraser, Darren Aronofsky, The Whale, Knock at the Cabin, EO, & Puss in Boots: The Last Wish

Episode Date: February 3, 2023

Telegraph critic Robbie Collin stands in for Simon this week as he’s unwell. Mark reviews ‘EO,’ Jerzy Skolimowski’s harrowing new film about a donkey that encounters happiness and sorrow along his journey through life, ‘Knock at the Cabin’ - M Night Shyamalan’s apocalyptic film – which tells the story of a same sex couple who are held hostage and asked to make an unthinkable choice, from the Shrek family ‘Puss in Boots: The Last Wish,’ starring Antonio Banderas, Salma Hayek, and Florence Pugh, and ‘The Whale’ - adapted from stage to screen, the film tells the sad tale of a reclusive and obese man named Charlie who wishes to reconnect with his estranged daughter. You can also hear Simon’s interview with The Whale actor, Brendan Fraser, and director, Darren Aronofsky, with more from them both in Take 2. Mark and Robbie go through this week’s Top 10 and your correspondence. Time Codes (relevant only when you are part of the Vanguard): 10:55 EO Review 18:00 Box Office Top 10 36:20 Darren Aronofsky and Brendan Fraser 48:29 The Whale Review 57:44 Laughter Lift 01:00:28 Knock at the Cabin Review 01:07:43 What’s On 01:09:09 Puss in Boots: The Last Wish EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo A Somethin’ Else & Sony Music Entertainment production.    Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts   To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

With banking packages from Scotiabank, you can put money back in your pocket. That's how Marcus was able to invest in everything he needed to launch his podcast. About his pets. Welcome back to PetGasd. Visit Scotiabank.com slash welcome offer. Scotiabank conditions apply. Hello there, you might have been expecting Simon Mayo, but this is not he, Simon's been taken ill this week, with the nasty doors of the Andromeda strain, so while he's recuperating and get well soon Simon, you've got me instead. I'm Robbie Collin, chief film critic at the

telegraph, and occasionally of this parish in a contributor role, although never before seen on this side of the desk, so Mark, this is my gentle. It is, isn't it? This is because essentially what we've got is too, as opposed to a presenter in a critic, oh, you obviously, you are a presenter, and I, in other roles, have been a presenter, but on this show, you and I have only ever been critics. That's right. So we have two critics. I feel like I should treat you like a supply teacher. I should hold things at you from, you know, right, rude things up on the blackboard in order

to throw you off your stripe. But welcome. Thank you. I'm very pleased to be here. No, but I can't do it. You have to say welcome to me. It's this is. Oh, that's right.

It's all I'm here to see. I'm here to see. Mark, thank you very much for coming. It's a good thing to see you. Thank you. And can we say, you know, get well soon to Simon, who is, you know, listening probably from his sick bed, going, why are there two critics doing this?

Absolutely. You know, this is like father Ducal doing a funeral. He's going to be looking on in horror. The burning wreckage from this chair. No, look, it's lovely to be here. I'm sort of putting the boys through Star Wars at the moment because they've reached the age. They were keen to play the Lego Star Wars video game. This cannot be their first point of contact with this with this world. Although, although, you know, there are worse ones. But so we were showing them the original trilogy. And when I see the original trilogy, I mean the original

trilogy, and we, so we did the Empire Strikes Back last weekend. And how old are they? So there are nine and eight. So they're about the, the ideal age to see the stuff for the first time. Yeah. And after the twist ending, which I think we're all right to, you know, the IAMP. Pay, you know, go in on your own,

and recover since that's fine. The IAM Your Father loves. Yes. There was this moment of, I mean, surprise, but also donning realization that they both had. Once the film finished, they tripped off up to their bedroom and then came back with this handful of books, each one of which had an IAM Your Father j a jokin' that they know finally understood.

Because this line is apparently, of course it's apparently to the through the culture, but to the extent that it now shows up in stuff like Cat Kid Comic Club. That's interesting. I might as when P.T.'s dad said, I'm your father. That's what he was referring to.

So you know, this whole kind of far. I mean, my great ignorance was, I was a film critic when dangerous minds came out and you remember there the song from this at this does have a point the song from dangerous minds, which is gangster's paradise. Yes. I remember the first after having heard that song on hard rotation on radio one, which is where I was with Simon back then and then hearing past time paradise and going, it's a Stevie Wonder song. No, I know that everyone there, but I literally didn't know. And then you go, oh, that's what that is. It's a gag about a Stevie Wonder song. I never got that.

That's what gangsters, paradise is a put fine. Okay, now everything makes sense. Yes, this thing of reverse engineering and origin music from the songs that sample songs to the songs. The sampling is, I mean, that's something. Anyway, look, we can, in fact, there's a question about this coming up later in the show. It's okay, but before we get to that, what else is coming up on the show's D-Mike? We're going to be reviewing EO, Knock at the Cabin, Pussin Boots, The Last Wish, and The Well.

And I believe that this is a unique circumstance because I think you've seen all of those as well, because I know you were at the screenings that I was at this week. Yes, I have. So, again, two critics. Yeah, in the unlikely event, you're incorrect about any of these codes. I can cut you off. You're correct. Set the records straight and then we can move on with any problems.

It's going to be great. Very good. We also have, in fact, Simon's conversation with two very special guests, Brendan Fraser and Darren Aronofsky. Can I just say Fraser? Yes. Brendan Fraser. Not Brendan.

What is that? What is that about? Why would anyone look at the F-R-A-S-E-R and say Frazier? And I think that even Aaronowski does it. It's the weirdest. You wait to be here the interview. I think he says something with a little bit of a... What is it with people in Frazier? His name is Brendan Fraser, like it's written down. I mean, yeah, she's scholar Mofsky, we're coming up to. I can understand. Anyway. No, well, okay. So, you're as open for that. And of course, there's a citation-sized hit of our own

stuff to come to, which continues in extra takes. At least an additional 90 minutes of this rubbish, more than double the recommended Take One Doles, plus an additional review this week of Alice Diops, Santa Maria. But again, I think you've probably seen nothing. Yes, there's also pretentious moire, the regular feature that curdles every critics blood, in which the score currently stands, as follows, the people 9, Mark Kermwood 7. Although there's a twist on it this week. Yes, so I gather, which I'm not especially conferred to, but we'll come to that. There's also you decide, which is a word of mouth

on a podcast feature in which you get to hear about what's good on streaming services. You can also support the show via Apple podcasts or head to extratakes.com. And that's even better as the Vanguard will get take one and take two on a Friday and on a Tuesday and add free version of podcasting's hottest new property, shrink the box with Ben Billy Smith.

And if you're already a Vanguardista, as always, we salute you. version of podcasting's hottest new property, Shrink the Box, with Ben Bailey Smith. And if you're already a Van Gardister, as always, we salute you. Now I have an email here from Casey in Dublin who writes Dear Hot Dog Fingers and Racka Cooney. Okay, let's do this one, but go ahead. Medium-Town Lister and recent Van Gardister here, I first started listening to Mark during the first series of secrets of cinema. I wanted to express my profound joy and excitement at the fact that everything everywhere all at once is leading the nominations at the Oscars. I saw it in May with one of my closest friends knowing

nothing about it, and it hit me like an aquarium gravel filled Fanny Bank. Still struggle with Fanny Bank, it should be fun. As a young, neurodivergent queer person living in this often overwhelming world, it felt like the movie I didn't know I had been waiting for. It was especially galvanising to have felt as though the film was speaking to me as a neurodivergent person, only to discover later that co-director Daniel Kwan realised he himself had ADHD while writing the movie. In an interview he said, this movie is the reason I got diagnosed. This movie, obviously, when you look at it now, was made by someone with ADHD. Perhaps it's because this was the first year where I managed to see so many new releases,

but I've never felt more strongly about a favorite than this one. And the fact that it could be recognized so widely during a ward season, well, the Oscars are pants, but it makes me ecstatic anyway. Though in my heart of hearts. I know it's unlikely. I really hope it gets best picture. And then in Gallic, you'll have to, in fact,

this will be Irish gear that cannot Scott's Gallic. So you'll have to forgive me the pronunciation on the slonger far like a slagoch, Chaguy, KC from Dublin. Well, on the subject of all awards are essentially silly. Yes, that's taken as a given. It's also kind of important that they, when it comes to slightly smaller pictures, they do make a difference. I mean, there's

been all this stuff about Andrea Rysman, which we might end up talking about in a little bit, you know, who's getting an Oscar nomination for Best Actress for a film that took $270,000 in total in the US before the Oscar campaign began. Everything everywhere all at once is a really interesting case when we saw it. I think you and I would have reviewed it around the same time. It was in the wake of Dr. Strange and the multi-versa madness. And the whole thing was just to go on the one hand and on the other hand. And I loved the fact that when it was doing well in the charts, Jamie Lee Curtis, who appears to have no filter at all, was just on Twitter going, we are kicking Dr. Strange'ses. That is absolutely fantastic.

Do you think it's got a shot? What do you think it's going to win? Yes, I have to say Casey from Dublin. I don't think it's that unlikely that it could win. I mean, within the runes it's got four acting nominations. It's nominated for Director of Original Screenplay Score. Costumes also crucially editing. So I scribble this down, the film that wins

best picture has only not been nominated for best editing twice since 1981. So this is a kind of a strong indication it's in the frame. I think it might go to the banshees of Inesharin. That's what I think is going to win. I think the breadth of enthusiasm for everything everywhere are all at once. And the fact that it shows that you can make a blockbuster like film without a blockbuster budget, you know, like you're saying, it's a small film, but it dreams big. I wasn't as wild about it as everyone else.

I think it kind of has made its point after it in 90 minutes and then slightly over does it. But, you know, as I kind of an adventurous, but accessible, and cruisely, also commercially popular film, there have been worse choices in recent memory. Let's put it that way. I mean, I think, you know, Fableman's there's a lot of affection for Spielberg.

I think Fableman's is fine. Women talking hasn't got a chance. Neither was triangle of sadness. Top government average on a variety. We're talking one point saying, you know, it's not out of the question that it would win. All quiet is an interesting thing. Although that will win international feature, probably.

Although we'll talk about that in a moment as well. Elvis, I think there is a chance in everything everywhere. I do think it's going to be banshee's of any showroom, but I do. There's also that weird Oscar-voting thing, isn't it, that quite often it's nobody's first choice, but everyone's second choice. And that's why you get things like crash, not that one, the other crash, and Argo, the film that nobody thought was the best film of the year, but one because it was the one that nobody disliked. Yes, exactly. And everything everywhere for however peculiar the film is, it does actually meet that criteria, right?

It's a very hard film to dislike. I mean, it's too long and it's baggy in all the rest of it, but hey, okay. So now, another email from Eric in Sunderland, but not that one. Is that Eric? Yes. Can't it have a reference? Okay. So dear film adjacent friends, I've heard Mark describe post-apocalyptic stories as nonsensical because nothing can happen after the world ends. I just want to point out that the word apocalypse comes from a Greek word, meaning a reveal or revelation. Yes, in the last century or so, apocalypse has become synonymous with the end of everything,

but that's apparently a relatively recent development. Stray thought, perhaps this means film spoilers, could also be called apocalypses. Listen, by the way, some people talk about life, that is very much the case. Yeah, just to be clear, so my feeling is that this happened because somebody wrote into us and said, you can't have a post-apocalyptic movie.

Apocalypses is the end of everything., you can't have a post-apocalyptic movie. Apocalypse is the end of everything. You have to stop calling them post-apocalyptic. So I feel like I'm being corrected on a correction. I've always called them post-apocalyptic. And then there's a pause. Then we go, or as we now have to call them apocalyptic. So thank you. So if apocalypse actually just means reveal, the forehorsement of the reveal

somehow sounds less threatening. Although again, that will come up later on in the show. Anyway, down the street on subject, Eric and Sunderland brackets, but not that one. Now, shall we have a review? Yes. So we've both seen this. This is going to happen all the way through the program.

So EO, which is a new film by Eurich Skolomowski, who is a Polish director, who's directorial CV is eclectic to say the least. This is a contender for the best international feature Oscar in which it goes up against all quite in the Western Front, which is the pack leader, quiet girl, which has made history as being an Irish film nominated in that category.

Things are Argentina in 1985, which I think has got a very, very strong following. This is inspired by a breast song film, which some people may have seen from 1966, Oizar Balthazar. At the end of the film, it says, this film was made out of our love for animals and nature. And the well-being of the animals was always our first priority, which is always good to know, because it's the story of a donkey.

The donkey begins in a circus, and it's a kind of strange, red strobing experience of the circus, but the donkey clearly has a great bond with this young woman who performs under the name Cassandra, and who seems to love him genuinely love him, and to take care of him even when the owner of the circus is somewhat brutal. Here's a quick clip. Yes! Don't you dare to kill yourself, Vasyl. Don't you understand? Try it only. leaving one and don't you dare try it. The rest of the film is then a series of encounters with people who are either kind or cruel. So there are encounters with somebody who is particularly brutal. There's an encounter with a for a warrior who's snapping the next foxes who are in cages.

There's an encounter with somebody who tries to sell the donkey for illegal meat and there's an unexpected friend who admits that he's eaten a lot of meat, including donkey meat. But there are also these encounters with young kids in a petting zoo in which the kids are, you know, delighted and thrilled by the presence of the donkey. And there is strange and unexpected friendship. But all the way through it, you see the world through the donkey's eyes. The two things that are apparent are firstly, it's not primarily about the Donkeys, it's about the person, the people at the Donkeys meets, which is also true of the Bresson. The Bresson has quite a strong religious allegory. I mean, you can't mention Donkeys without thinking of little Donkeys in the Donkeys, they're all that stuff. In this, I think the religious

allegory is slightly played down. I mean, there is a scene of the Donkeys in a stable with a heavenly light, which does appear to be very sort of avertly spiritual. But I think the religious allegories slightly play down. I mean, there is a scene of the donkey in a stable with a heavenly light, which does appear to be very sort of avertly spiritual. But I think it's, if anything, it's more a kind of just a look at the people. It's very non-judgmental. It does present a view of humanity, which is you never know who to trust and you never trust people's motives and your kindness comes up in unexpected places. But the reason it worked for me, and I found myself profoundly touched by it and very moved by it. Firstly, it has an extraordinarily inventive score, which I really, really loved. Secondly,

the cinematography goes from being on the one hand, this kind of handheld, very, neorealism to flying drone shots, going through woods like fairy tales and you keep expecting Hansel and Gretel to appear. So it's got a fantasy. There's even a sequence in it with a robot dog or what is that? It's a... Yes, so this this occurs at an interesting point in the narrative right when the donkey is at death's door. It's in a very bad state of repair. I do get to be this kind of dear I.C. post-apocalyptic fantasy of, the donkeys kind of imagining a future in which donkeys become robotic.

It's one of those strange, wobbly, titerie robot creature things that you see clips going viral of on social media as well. It's almost like the very end of AI when days, yes. Yes, which is weird, isn't it? Because you, so, but what's fascinating about the film is that a film about a donkey having these series of Picarroskin counters with people could actually have a moment in it in which there's that and it seems that it reminded you of that as well.

It doesn't matter whether you understand it or not and then at the end there's this encounter with Isabelle who pair Which is to do with religion and communion and incest and all this kind of really strange stuff. I really liked it. I found it very, very touching. I found some of it very upsetting. There was a bit of it when the donkey is going downstream reminded me of night of the hunter. You know, the, didn't you think? 100% the spider, the frog plopping down the stream.

There's no question I think the hunter was in the Skolowsky's mind and that. And I think that something that can throw the net that wide, and yet really be a fairly simple story, which is the donkey's pass from hand to hand, from person to person, and experiences, kindness and cruelty, and human life in all its, you know, different forms. I thought it was quite, and there's a bit of donkey hote at one point, when suddenly there's the windmills. I thought it was kind and there's a bit of donkey hoat at one point when suddenly there's the the windmills

I thought it was kind of quietly profound. I loved the score. I absolutely love the score and I thought it looked really really impressive. The score is by Pavel Mikhytin. We played some of it on Scala and it's really good. Yeah, 100% down to the night of the Hunter reference completely agree. I And we haven't discussed this. No, no, no, we haven't. But no, it's it's it's really interesting that I mean, Skolarski's getting on a bit now, right? I mean, I T4 something and and and yet he's able to make a film this kind of free and this kind of playful. I mean, it has a really kind of youthful spirit that I loved. I think also it's interesting he's tacked away from the religiosity of Bresson, Mike kind of learned a little awkwardly now and it's much more about these kind of empathy puddles. So these handheld verity shots that you mentioned were always in on EOS face looking at these kind of soulful but very

mysterious dark eyes that's taking the world. It's very much from the Donkeys point of view, but the way in which Skolamovsky's camera is moving around the donkey, I think is kind of inviting us to wonder, what is he thinking? How do we parse this look? Because he's not a human.

He's not going to be perceiving the world in this way. There's a very funny slash-up setting in counter with football hooligans as well, where we're kind of invited to look upon them as a pack of animals, I think. But it's always about, you know, how does this completely non-human perspective on humanity? How do we kind of decode that? How do we process that? Yes, I was very shy and by it and very moved. Very good. Well, we're on the same page. That's one for

one. Still to come. Still to come. Review, though, this is the bit when you discover that when everyone says, Mark can't read a script, you're absolutely right. Still to come, review it though this is the bit when you discover that when everyone says Mark can't read a script, you're absolutely right. Still to come, reviews of, oh, there's a new M. Knight Shimalan film called Knock at the Cabin. There is our interview with Brendan Fraser and Darren Aronofsky on the subject of the movie that everybody's talking about the whale. Now it's time for the ads unless you're in the van guide, in which case we'll be back before you can see Lon Chinny.

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The link is in the podcast episode description box. Hi, esteemed podcast listeners, Simon Mayo. I'm Mark Kermot here. I'm excited to let you know that the new season of the Crown and the Crown, the official podcast, returns on 16th of November to accompany the sixth and final season of the Netflix Epic Royal Drama series. Very exciting, especially because SuperSub and Friend of the Show Edith Bowman hosts this one. Indeed, Edith will take you behind the scenes, dive into conversation with

the talented cast and crew from writer and creator Peter Morgan to the crowns Queen Elizabeth in Mel Distant. Other guests on the new series include the Crowns Research team, the directors, executive producers Suzanne Mackie and specialists, such as Voice Coach William Connaker and props master Owen Harrison. Cast members including Jonathan Price, Selim Dor, Khalid Abdullah, Dominic West and Elizabeth DeBickey. You can also catch up with the story so far by searching the Crown, the official podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe now and get the new series of the Crown, the official podcast, first on November

16th. Available, wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is brought to you by Mooby, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe. From my connect directors to emerging otters, there's always something new to discover, for example. Well, for example, the new Aki Karri's Mackey film Fallen Leaves, which won the jury prize at CAN, that's in cinemas at the moment. And if you see that and think I want to know more about Akikari's Mackey, you can go to movie The Streaming Service and there is a retrospective of his films called How to Be a Human.

They are also going to be theatrically releasing In January Priscilla, which is new so for you a couple of films which I am really looking forward to since I have an Elvis obsession. You could try movie free for 30 days at movie.com. Slash, Kermit and Mayo. That's M U B I dot com slash Kermit and Mayo. That's M-U-B-I dot com slash Kermed and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. And now it's time for our box office top 10.

At 62 in the UK and not appearing in the US chart, is January. Now, I think January's really interesting. Have you seen January? I have not. The way I think January is really interesting. Have you seen January? I have not. The way I described it was, it's kind of like eras ahead, meets stalker, meets waiting for Godot. It is adapted from a play about which I hadn't read or seen,

which is very specifically about the disappearance of villages. And I think it's one of those things. If you completely understand the cultural context, which I don't, it will mean one thing. I thought it was, again, to use this word, it was a film about the end of everything, like the end of one's life, the end of the world, everything.

So it's very, very, very sort of symbolic. And it did that thing that bits of it have stayed with me. I had a dream the other night which had some frozen animals, frozen animals appearing in the film and the frozen animals appeared in my dream and that's what I think. Oh, okay, that had an effect. At number 14 in the UK and also not in the US chart is unwelcome. Now, we have an email from Dave Brickley on this one. Go ahead. If I was being kind, I would say at its best, it reminds me of the wonderful anthology

Katzai, and a young Drew Barrymore hunted by an excellently-revised troll. In truth though, from the start, it sets itself out to be poorly misjudged and deeply unpleasant. So it's, you know, I thought for the most part, it didn't work very well, and then at the very end, it pulled it together with a final act that made you go, oh, okay, that's interesting. Well done, you went that way. But for the most part, it can't quite get the balance between the kind of quite brutal home invasion at the beginning.

And then what actually turns out to be, you know, a little people tale for the rest of the movie. And it's not great. It's a bit of a mess. At number 10 in the UK and 4 in the US, where it really seems to have struck a chord, is a man called Otto. And I'm going to say this every week.

Did you hear the email from the person who went to see a man called Otto and discovered in it a reason to want to live? And I just think, I'm sorry, I say this every week, I will keep saying it. If you were the people that made a man called Otto, and you heard the email, you go, well, that's it, I'm just going to hang this every week, I will keep saying it. If you were the people that made a man call also, I'm called also, and you heard the email, you go, well that's it, I'm just gonna hang up my spurs now

because that is the best review I will ever get for anybody. And number nine in the UK, and at 10 in the US, and I'm assuming released in time for the Lunar New Year, is the wandering earth too. So not only that you nor I've seen this because this wasn't press screened here, but it is. Yes, so this is a prequel to 2019's The Wandering Earth, which is an enormous Chinese science fiction blockbuster in which this global consortium, led by China, of course, has

to propel the Earth to a safe distance from the Sun, which is exploding into its next kind of Earth swallowing up phase. I'm sold. They have to jet the thing away. The original was China's, is currently China's fifth biggest film of all time. I think on release it was the biggest and it's since been overtaken. But it's one of these, this is a part of cinema that I don't understand enough and it's this, described as main melody Chinese blockbusters.

And these are these state sponsored blockbusters that are very much about shoring up the kind of regime messages and propaganda and enshrining it with... Well, the message propaganda being if the sun explodes, don't worry, we'll move the earth away. China, you know, trust China, we'll sort it. Okay. So yes, it's part of these films are not ones that especially thrive outside of, I mean, China for obvious reasons, but this part of film culture,

you know, China started cannibalizing and swallowing up a lot of Hong Kong cinema, which was incredibly, was, you know, very vibrant, very creative scene. And they would sort of essentially make offers to these directors that they simply could not turn down, and then they would kind of travel north up to the mainland and make these enormous CG-propelled blockbusters that are very much about entrenching Chinese ideology, you know, regime ideology.

Well, I will check that out, because it sounds interesting. At number eight in the UK, and at 22 in the US, is Whitney Houston. I want to dance with somebody, which I think we've... This video, there's the last movie I saw before the Christmas break and I was actually, I mean, maybe I was, you know, kind of break happy, but I actually... I liked it. It's not too bad, is it?

It's really no, it's not. And why did we go in thinking it was? Because I had heard bad things. I think because it had the ear of an awards contender that didn't work out. It was written by Anzany McCartan who did Beemian Rhapsody, Naomi Aki, this kind of big breakthrough role for her potentially. And the fact it wasn't being screened for awards groups. No, that's right.

It kind of rang a lot. The screening was literally the last day that things were open before Christmas as well. It was like, if you were going to review it, you had to work right up until the last day. But actually, I liked it. He just turned out to not be that kind of film after all. At seven in the UK, and yet to be released in the US, we have Roll Darls Matilda the musical.

I, even I'm surprised by how well this has done. I mean, I know that the stage musical was a really big hit, and I haven't seen the stage musical. I mean, it's, you know, it's rumping fun. There's the discussion to be had about Roll Darl, which is normally going to discussion, but I, you know, it is still packing them out. It has done better than I expected. I always thought it was fine, but it didn't think it was this good.

Good as I thought. It was absolutely wonderful. Did you see the stage show? No. It does what the stage show does well, extraordinarily well. At six in the UK, I no longer present on the US chart, put a Babylon, is Babylon? We different in all of the three. Okay, you liked it. I love Babylon. Well, tell me why I'm wrong. Okay, so I think this film maybe has not done itself

any favors by, I get it, like the Whitney Houston thing, emerging during this award season. I mean, I kind of get why they thought it might be a best picture contender, but I think it is kind of brash and petulant and kind of immature in all the best possible ways. And I love to see money being burnt on a bonfire like this. I think it's so kind of exciting and so fearless.

And it seems like, you know, we sort of talk about, you know, when will the studios get back to the days when they'll spend, you know, $90 million on this original uncompromising vision? And then Babylon comes along and everyone says, oh, not like that. when they'll spend $90 million on this original uncompromising vision. And then Babylon comes along and everyone says, oh, not like that. No, yes, for me, absolutely like that. What's happening at the end is this guy who has borne witness to all of this in the first person. He's seen decades of this nonsense going down that has ruined lives. And in some cases ended lives.

And then he sees what the machine spits out about itself at the end. And he is moved and delighted in spite of himself. And the tears are tears of defeat. They're not tears of rapture. OK. Well, the only thing I'd add is that yesterday, I was with Dave Norris last projectionist standing.

And he said a really interesting thing about that montage. He said, what you're missing is that the choice of films is because each one of them is a technological development, a format development. It's not that these are the great artistic achievements, it's that each one of those has some format development in it. And then he went through a whole bunch of specific things about certain forms of widespread. And actually, that was for me the most convincing argument I've heard for the montage not being the worst thing I've ever seen. On the subject of when

are we going to get back to studio spending that kind of money on original things? It's like when are we going to get back to United Artists setting fire to themselves by like Michael Jumino, Make Heaven's Gate? It's... I never longed for that period. At five, and both the UK and the US is Megan. Which I think is, I mean, I really enjoyed Megan. I'm glad it did. Well, I'm glad it was even involved in the Oscar announcements. I think it's fun. It's a satire. It's not a horror film. It's a robot doll satire. It's got a little bit of AI, a little bit of chucky, a little bit of stepford wives, a little bit. I thought it was fun.

Someone I can't remember who likened it to Paul Vrahulvin, and I think that is absolutely put in the satire being the center of it. It's satire and it's satire that not everyone realizes is satire, which I like. Which is the most amazing thing that people apparently watch Starship Troopers and took it seriously and you go, it's literally, they've got fascist flags, you know, how can you not see this is satire? Did you know, we mentioned all quite on the Western front earlier, you know the head of VFX on that film was also the head of VFX or certainly very high up in the VFX team that film was also the head of VFX or certainly very high up in the VFX team on Starship Troopers. That makes perfect sense. And in the tank scene,

which I think VFX-wise is the absolute set piece of set pieces in all quite in the Western front. What do those vehicles coming through the mist look like? Enormous alien creatures. And you know this guy is a guy is a creature specialist. He's throughout his career. He's always kind of gloried in creating these enormous bugs or wolves or something like that. And then I think the approach to the tanks in that scene, I mean, everyone knows what a tank looks like. And yet, they look like it's been in your veins.

You've never seen before. Absolutely. Yes, I had a ball with me and I thought it was great. And also, people have complained it's not gory enough or 15-y enough, it should have been an anti-agent. It's a satire, it's not a horror movie, it's a satire. That's the point. At four in the UK and 17 in the US is the FableMins.

No, I have an email from Kevin Matthews here who writes to you, Ramlin and Amlin. Having just viewed the highly praised, the FableMins, I felt that I would chime in with my immediate thoughts. Jaws may not actually be about a shark, but The Fable Mins is very much actually about what it all seems to be about, which is all well and good considering how influential and impactful Spielberg has been on the cinematic landscape, but it doesn't make for a film

that is anything more than quite nice, if unnecessary. Slightly misjudged, slightly self-indulgent, slightly too well-slight. The Fableman's is still a good film, and Spielberg absolutely deserves to treat himself with this cinematic retelling of his youth. But showing us how the main character comes to develop his cinematic skill set reminds us all of the usual Spielbergisms we would have enjoyed over the decades, and that breaks the spell. It's kind of like knowing how a magic trick works. You can still appreciate the skill, but you'll never be as impressed and entertained as you were before you knew the mechanics behind it.

H-T-G-I, Tinkety Tonk, and down with those who seem intent on having the legendary filmhouse cinema in Edinburgh now remain lost forever. Here, here, here are Kevin Matthews. Well, I think on the subject of... That was here, here, just to the filmhouse. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I understood it and I was just allowing you to have that moment. I agree. I'm in concert with you on that. I'm not in concert with you. I'm in a weird construction of language. I don't think it demystifies things. I agree with you that it's slight. I still think that Spielberg's best autobiographical movie is ET because you can watch ET and be completely swept away by it.

Without having to go, you know this is a story about somebody telling you that when he was young, he was anxious about his parents splitting up and not having friends. I like Fableman's. I think Tony Kush did a really good job with the script. I mean, Kush has said that what he did was interviewed Spielberg about the real events and then fictionalised them by giving them sort of dramatic arcs. So there are things that it's fine. We won't spoil the last scene, which far too many people have spoiled the last scene. And the reason I say that is just because at the end of the film it's really lovely to have a genuine, oh, that was a nice note to go out on without seeing it in advance. I think it's fine, but it's incidental. I mean, I think the best

picture stuff is really, I would see say really, I think Spielberg's got to this point in his career now where he just makes everything look effortless, right? I mean, I remember interviewing him for Bridger Spies and saying like, now come on, how long did it take you to storyboard and you know, block these scenes with Tom Hanks in that office? Because every camera angle is so kind of subtly loaded with his, you know, the psychology of the process that he's going through and the various, you know, his position in relation to the, the Paris that he's struggling against. And Spielberg said, oh, we just kind of turned up and

I just said, let's put the camera there and do it this way. So he's got the point now. He's, I mean, Spielberg is, is one of, I mean, don't say one of the all-time greats at this point, but I think he's got the point. I think that's actually not a controversial point. He understands the mechanics of cinema so purely that he can just walk into a room and say, this is where the director was it said, the key job for director is to know exactly where to place the camera in the room.

So that to... I think more than one director has said that, but... It's to fold. Yeah, I think it was, I think it was, John Ford. But Spielberg is that director. He just intuitively knows exactly where to place the camera for a sort of maximum subtle. And I think because it's so subtle and because it's so effortless, we've sort of perhaps stopped noticing the total mastery of it.

I think the Fableman is a masterful film. And I think people have not kind of twigged to the mastery because it's not as on the surface as something like Tire, although I love tar as well. I don't think tar is as shui. I prefer fable means to tar. Okay, well look, let's, let's, let's, let's talk more about that another time.

At three in the UK and seven in the US is plain. I have an email from Darren and Dublin who writes, either I went to see capital letters, Jarrah botlised latest plain on Saturday, what a load of enjoyable coblos. It relapsed along pleasantly, although I did have my attention wander when I thought about the plot, or there's the mistake. Complete with a suspiciously well-supplied and well-connected isolated island. The highlight for me was the sort of flashback explaining quite why capital letters Jarrah was working in the fireside of nowhere.

I was also impressed with several feats of electrical engineering, including getting a telephone exchange working that BT's best would think a big job. Yours, etc. Dianne, leftly from Dublin. I mean, I enjoyed it. It's nonsense. The initial crash looks like a video game. And then they landed the under the crash,

was just the beginning, and then there's all this stuff. You know, they are separatists and militia, and no one will go there, because they all, you know, they get separatists and militia and no one will go there because they all, you know, they get, so okay, fine, so that's the set up, so he's got to do the thing. And then we move into the third act and he goes, we have to do this thing and you go,

what? Really? And then they do and you go, okay, well, just the sheer hoots par of that being the final act is kind of like, wow. It is as if the sat down in a room and thought right, okay, so we've got this great setup, we've got this exciting kind of ramble thing

happening in the middle. What would be the stupidest possible way to end this film? Let's do it. I think that's because I mean, come on. And it's like, yeah, this is working. Really? And then they do it and they just go, see it.

And there's this big thing set up at the start with, oh, is he gonna get back to see his daughter on time? And this is very kind of... He's gonna be late. That whole sub-block, never mind. Just stick him on the phone with her. We don't need the reunion. There's a sort of a delightful efficiency to it.

And I enjoyed it. Yeah, I enjoyed it. It's even less the thing. You know what, in the same way as I enjoyed Megan, I think it was just kind of seeing something done. Oh, Megan's a better film. Megan is probably a better made film. I'd say yes, but there's there's probably there is something quite joyful about seeing a film that like playing that knows exactly what it's trying to do. And just I'm just going to call it

plane. Okay, fine. You know, and it is, I mean, it's playing by name and it is late by nature. At two in the UK and three in the US is Patan No, this is a Hindi blockbuster that was not screened for critics on my free diet I have not seen it and can offer nothing neither of us have it is a Hindi language action thrillers directed by Siddhartha and and and produce by the Chachapura and it's if anyone's seen it Please let us know because going in at number two. That is a really strong opening. I know and at number one on both sides of the Atlantic our favorite avatar the way of water. I can say this now that you're you're here okay because

you were the person who I kept referring to but I didn't name because it wasn't my job to say what I came out of the film and I was in a state of my, you know, really, and I walked up and I saw you and you looked at me and I went, just don't. And you went, oh no, I hated it too. It's like, oh, thank heaven for that. And then you said the phrase, it was like being water-borded with purple cement. Yes, yes. I thought that was just a wonderful phrase. But it is. And it's funny because I love the original avatar when it... Yeah, that's why I was looking at you. Don't try and talk me into this being...

But there was a kind of a structure and a purpose to it, and in this one, they just kind of go swimming for three hours. Here's the best thing about the plot. Unobtainium, oh, we've forgotten all about that. Oh, we're in the forest. We've got to run away to water. Why don't you run away to another forest? And then the people are coming down. What are they searching for?

Oh, revenge, I'm not sure. I know whale meat. It's a chemical in the whale brain, not a whale. It's extended. You go, at least in the first one, there was a bunch of unobtainium underneath the tree of life. And that's what they're looking for. Yes, it was. the first one, there's a bunch of unobtainment underneath the tree of life. And that's what they're looking for.

Yes, it was like, you know, why are they there? It's under the knee's a bit cross. I'll tell you why they're there. This is all structured. This is my avatar conspiracy theory. This is all structured in the Super Mario video games because you have the forest level, okay? Then you have the beach in the swimming level.

James Cameron said the next one is going to be volcanoes. So the fire level. After that comes mountains, I think, or snow. So this is all tracing the steps of Super Mario of the Brothers video games. Okay, and we're gonna end up in Bowser's castle or the Avatar equivalent thereof. Anyway.

Also, sorry, just finally, don't you think that any action sequence in all, you know, joyous stuff sequence in which characters go, woohoo, should automatically be struck out of any film? If a character is shouting woohoo to tell you they're excited, it means the film, like, it doesn't think it's exciting. It means it looks a bit in gone. That's a bit rubbish.

So much of this film has 90s feel to it. I know James Cameron has been working on these things since 1990s, that doesn't mean they have to sound like it. All the bro and cuss. Oh no, all that food. Yeah. Anyway, let's move on. Yes.

A film that could not be less like Avatar the Way of Water. In spite of its title, The Whale is out today. And fortunately, Simon's Andromeda Stream didn't kick in until after this interview with its director and star. Here are Daryen Ironovsky and Brendan Fraser after a clip from the film. home. She did that. Charlie didn't get her hurt him. She did it to send him home. That's a clip from The Whale and I'm delighted to say it's director and co-producer Darren Aronowski is with us. Hello Darren. Hi how are you? I'm doing very well and it's

star Brendan Fraser is with us. Hello Brendan how are you doing? I'm glad to be here. Very very nice to see you. Darren introduces to the movie, just set the stage, if you want. It's a small film with a big heart. It's about character named Charlie, that Brendan Frazier plays. And he's trying to reconnect with his daughter, Ellie, who's played by Sadie Sink, and kind of asks all the big questions about what we do with our time while we're here on the planet. It feels like half the story.

Brendan, you play Charlie. Tell us about him. He's been living alone for a significant amount of time and his health has severely compromised. He's been harmed. He's been harming himself by overeating over consumption and he has real serious health challenges and very little time A week at all if we meet him and he's made some choices in life or very life made for him Nonetheless he he wants to reconnect with his daughter before his time is up and To do that would mean a great deal to him maybe even give him some sort of path towards redemption if he can have it.

He's been living with obesity for a while. How bad is the obesity that Charlie is living with? Well, Charlie has gone to the point where it's a herculean effort for him to even take to his feet. And mobility and ambulation is severely compromised for him. So he gets around with the walker and this just gives him his couch to the bathroom to his bedroom. His blood pressure is off the charts and he realizes that he's just out of time. He doesn't really eat for pleasure necessarily. It's one of a compulsion, but he may be also doing that out of disregard for his health too intentionally, which I find sad because it's harmful.

It's based on a play, Darren, from Samudir Hunter, who wrote the screenplay for you. When you went to see the play, do you remember thinking, I wanna work on this? Was it an instant decision did it filter through over a period of time? It was pretty quick and instantaneous, I think, within a few days I was reaching out to Sam. And it was mostly because, like most people who will go see this film, there's a bunch of

characters up there that on the surface seem so so far and and so different than you but Sam's writing just invites you into their journeys and such a Delegate and emotional and deep way. I left just being kind of blown away by it and Felt there's got to be some way to bring this to the cinema because that's the gift of cinema is that you can be, you can walk in someone else's shoes in a way that very few other art forms can offer people. How do you go about making essentially a single room cinematic? That was the great challenge for me as a filmmaker was that challenge and it was all about for me the power of the material, the text, the words and the collaboration with the actors of

watching them interpret the material and these beautiful characters and then figuring out how they moved around this largely immobile character played by Brandon who barely moved. So how did we how to make the camera exciting and to help tell the story and to support what the actors were doing on front of us. In the credits of the movie, there's a big gap and Judy Chin's name comes up head of makeup. Brenner, could you just explain a little bit about the transformation and the preparation

that you had to do to physically become Charlie? Sure. I was scanned by an iPad producer, Jeremy Dawson brought, and we stood in my driveway, which freezing cold, because it can't have access to. This was during COVID. One another, and normally you pour a goop on an actor's face, and then a mold is made from that.

Well, the skip to step and gave Adrian complete control over everything on Charlie's body, the size of pores, anomalies in the skin, the texture of wrinkles in the eyes, and it's finally, finally detailed to not take its audience out of the reality of who Charlie is by seeing where the seams are that are't lines as it were. It was a weak and costume that was constructed with the hard-fast rule that it obeys physics and gravity, that it is cumbersome.

And that is the complete opposite of what we have seen in films to date, and I look at a lot of them, and how people are depicted whose body is in that type. Normally, we've seen one-night jokes and the vilification of characters through silly costuming, that doesn't make sense to me, at least it's a fit actor in a silhouette of maybe almost a Halloween costume that's filled with cotton batting or something like that, but it just doesn't hold up.

I was reading on the obesity action coalition website this morning about their work with you and the processes that they went through to instruct and inform and educate. Could you talk a bit down about the obesity action coalition and how they informed the process that we're talking about? Well, it was important for us always to be authentic and sensitive to what it's like to live with obesity. And so they helped us by connecting us with people who live with obesity to get their personal story. It's just to hear from little details about how they make breakfast in the morning because

of all the physical challenges that are in front of them to different emotional reasons that could potentially help Brandon think about his character in different ways. Look everyone suffers with some type of odd relationship with food in their own way. When I made Requiem for a Dream, there was the character that Ellen Burston was constantly fighting her weight.

And so it's very common that the kind of addiction struggles that people have in different ways can manifest in very relatable ways to lots of different people. And so the OAC though helped us to think about this one specific path. And we also just knew that we were playing with sensitive material, and we wanted to make sure we got a right. And part of the great rewards that Brendan and myself had was the feedback we got, not just from the OAC, but all different types of people who were very thankful that for the first time in anyone's memory that a character living with OBC like Charlie has been portrayed on film in all of the good ways and bad ways that makes up any other well drawn character on film. Brendan, it sounds like quite an education that you were not just being a part of this film

and and carrying the film, but this process of talking to the OAC sounds absolutely like the base blocks of this character. Indeed, I was given the most helpful notes from the people who I spoke to, everything from the emotional state that comes with being made fun of for Snickerdat when they were children to it, then feeling as if they were spoken to in a way that was harmful to their confidence and it set off a chain reaction and a cycle that's hard to break. Very often brought them to the place where they find themselves now. So what I learned was what we say to one another really has lasting effect and can have serious healthcare ramifications.

I made that discovery just almost by accident and speaking to everyone separately and realizing they all had a story to tell. We're in. There was someone usually started when they were very young. Their father, a teacher, parent, an adult. There was in some way recriminating towards them. And painful indeed has been addictive speech, as it's said.

Yeah. And yeah, so there have been critical voices saying, you know, you aren't the Gare Charlie is gay and he's a bass you are neither. Having gone through all those education processes which you've both described, were you surprised that people were still saying or raising eyebrows about? No, because this film's going to be a challenge to make no matter what.

And I had to assume the responsibility early on, whether or not to be a part of it, and I chose to be a part of it because firstly, fundamentally, I'm in the business of Make Believe and it's my job to be as faithful as possible to the characters that I play. And knowing that I'd have the support of an excellent makeup team, their instruction, and a story that's based in the lived experience of a writer Sam Hunter. I felt like we had a real strong standoff point to go from. I'd like to mention the four visitors to the flat

who are astonishing. So Charlie's ex-wife played by the extraordinary Samantha Morton. Teenage dolls you mentioned, say, do you think, Nursleys played by Hunchle, and the kind of traveling evangelist, Tyosimkins. Each one of them adds something else to the story. Nurse Liz, for example, can you just explain her significance? Because she's in the story a lot, and she's very important in Charlie's story. Liz is played by the great Hunchle, who right when I started to look for someone to play

that character, the actress, was on my mind. It took a me a while to convince her to actually consider it because she had just had a child and didn't really want to work, but I kind of had this gut feeling that she was going to be great for it. It's a very, very complicated character because she's a caregiver and also his best friend. For any of us that have been caregivers, it's a role filled with a lot of resentment as well as the obvious amount of love that's in it. And she just brought so much depth and unexpected approaches to the performance

that every day, Brendan and I were just so excited to work with her. She can say so much more in between lines of dialogue by that beautiful face of hers, the depth that she has of understanding. That was Brendan Fraser and Darren Aronofsky. And for the Vanguard, we'll have more from Brendan Fraser and Darren Aronofsky in teak-to. Mark, what do you think of the will? So several things to say. The first one is, and I mean this very genuinely, that interview demonstrated why is that Simon Mayo is one of the best interviewers because what he did was, he got those two interviews

to describe the movie in their own terms, in their own words, in depth and thoroughly. I also think that he enabled them, I think he enabled them to be hoisted by their own pertard. I think a small movie with a big heart, sorry, passed me that encyclopedia that I may smack it in my face, the gift of cinema, getting lost in the green eyes of the co-stars. I think we need to begin by saying that Hong Chao is terrific as the nurse. Samantha Morton in a short but always remarkable role as the ex-wife is... I mean, second time in as many months, right? After she said.

After she said, literally it's like, would you hit Samantha Mortis on for five minutes, just give her the whole movie to walk away with it. Thank you very much. And Brendan Fraser, I'd just check while we were listening to that, is still pack leader to win the Oscar. Odds Checker has him, is 88 to 11,

and the close behind him, Colin Farrell, but it's still as far as the bookies are concerned. So, I think the problem with the whale is this, and I don't like it, and the more I think about it, the more I don't like it. When I saw it, I just didn't like it very much, and the more I think about it, the more I don't. I think on the one hand, the whole issue

of the fat suit stuff is problematic, but I don't think that's the central problem with the film. I think that they discussed very openly there, the issues of what that's involved. I think everyone will make up their own mind about how they feel about that. When at one point there was a story that George Clooney was trying to make a version of the whale using an actor of appropriate size, and it practically didn't work out.

I think the bigger problems of these. Firstly, I think it is a stage-e adaptation of a stage-e stage play that even on stage would have looked really stage-e. I also think that it's not that it's a bad adaptation of a play, it's an adaptation of a bad play. I don't think it's well written. I think that the whole central conceit about the essay about Moby Dick that he wants to be read because it's got this phone IE thing about a voice saying, oh, you know, I, I, I, reading maybe Dick made me sad because I realized that the author didn't want to talk about them, made me sad. It's kind of dead poet society. It's kind of just chocolate box hallmark greeting analysis of literature. I think that the, the way in which, I mean,

Aaronowski himself said, you know, our challenge was to make the room cinematic. Well, they tried. It still ended up looking like a stage with doors opening, people walking in. The other problem is that the size of the central character is basically seen as an external expression of inner sadness. And when Brendan Fraser was talking about, you know, I did the thing and it made me sad. I think that is problematic. I think it's made slightly more problematic by the fact that Aranoffsky films, you know, the eating of food in a kind of monstrous way with the volume cranked up to really make this into something which is unnecessarily grotesque. And it's one thing to say we have sympathy for the character.

But it's another thing when everything about the way the character is being filmed is telling you a different story. So I think in the end it is a bad stage play put on screen adequately with a couple of great performances, essential performance that I don't get at all as being the Oscar front runner, I just don't get that. I mean, I'm sorry Colin Farrell in the banshees of Inner Sharing

is in a different ballpark. I think there are problems with it that one could have a political argument about and I'm sure that argument will happen. But I think the main problem with it is, it's just a bit naff. It's just a bit, you know, in the end we're all aren't we? Because it is, as its director says,

it's a small movie with a big heart over to you. Do you think Aaronowski is being sincere when he says it's a small movie with a big heart? Or do you think he's being on message? Because I don't believe for a second. Darren Aaronowski, the director of Requiem for a dream Has sat down to make a small movie with a big heart I think you saying that because it probably plays well and you know

We should note the whale in the US where apparently nobody was to see Interesting smaller films anymore the whale has bucked the trend people are turning out for the whale in In numbers out for the wheel in numbers. So it's very, I understand why he's presenting it as such. It's a good point, but I don't know which is worse. I don't know whether saying it because you mean it or saying it because you think it'll play well. I think they're both like, yeah, that's the fun.

I don't believe for a second, do you think so? That's a film. I thought your use of the word grotesque is really interesting. I don't think it's grotesque. I think it's this really pungent old testament allegory in the Iron-Oftsky tradition. This is what this director does. I mean Noah obviously, but then you know, there's certainly kind of make my rock and roll joke. Darren Oftsky has now made Noah and the while. Thank you very much. Nice. But he does this. He goes back into the Bible and pulls out inspiration.

Like, really no other contemporary filmmaker working certainly in America does. But he does this. He goes back into the Bible and pulls that inspiration like, no really no other contemporary filmmaker working certainly in America does. You know, mother was this guard, loveed, and expulsion, destruction, allegory, the rest had all the Christ stuff in it. So this is something that he does and I think he's, I agree, the play is not the smartest piece of dramatic writing on the planet, but I think Iron Offsky redeems it by kind of implanting this old testament stuff on top. And now in the play, the whale, apart from being this really kind of catch your breath, cruel reference to the main character's size, which I think you know then it then kind of goes on to undermine. It's talking about Moby Dick and it's talking about the essay. I think what Iron Offsky is interested in is the

biblical whale, the one that swallows up Juna, and he's very much framing Brendan Fraser's character as having been sort of self-swallowing and he's now existing within the kind of horrible, rancid belly of his apartment. He's eaten himself into this situation and, you know, no spoilers, but this is obviously, and it's a film about someone who is approaching the end. Yes, as Brendan Fraser says in that interview. And it's the moment of regurgitation is the kind of Aronofsky smack in the face that he does so beautifully, I think, in films like Red Pooh and for a dream, like the rest are where he just ends on a note that just leaves you reeling. I think this fits. And I love also the fact

that Aronofsky is kind of promoting this as, you know, after Mother, this is first films since Mother, which was of course enormously in tendry and everyone was mad about Mother and it bombed and everyone was very upset. But then this is clearly his attempt to kind of come back with something that's a crow pleaser and even Iron Opski and crow pleaser mode can still be phenomenally divisive. But I think the the the the smartness and the kind of hauling of this play into his into his kind of fire and brimstone world view is what makes this so exciting. I think Ben Frizz is brilliant in this film. And I think he's what's really interesting

because finally I interviewed him for the telegraph as well while he was doing the rounds. And he spoke about this performance purely or primarily in terms of the physical nature of it. So he was almost talking about it like he would speak about George of the jungle. You know, he is, he's a really interesting actor because he studied mind and clowning and all this kind of, you know, some comedy, physical comedy. And I think this is a role that he sees in those terms. It's primarily physical. It's about how does this character move around his world? You know, how does he connect to this piece of furniture or this task? There's

the moment where he first gets into the wheelchair and he gives himself a little sweet self-congratulatory cheer. That's a very brand and phrase of touch. I also think the idea that this film is taking place purely within an apartment. This character is not going to be gambling through the medals, right? It's going to, by the nature of the story, he's got to be very much rooted in it. Yeah, and that's the guilt to write a thing as well, that's that, you know. Yeah, yeah. But, yes, so we clearly differ on this enormously. I mean, anticipating listener feedback. I think it's fairly split in a slightly way. I think the last moment in the film is ridiculous. I mean, it's absolutely, no, no, I think it's very split. I think the last moment in the film is ridiculous.

I mean, it's absolutely, no, no, I think it's literally Oh for heaven's sake. I mean, I remember watching it. I remember, yeah, very, very, very, very, very, very, I remember watching Noah and thinking, the thing I love about Noah is people getting off their bike about the fact that he is interfered with the story of a 400-year-old man who makes a floating zoo.

You know, it's like they've got rock monsters. You go, I don't believe this. But you're fine with the rest of it. I think it's very astute to say, do you think Darren Aronowski actually believes that? I, however, I think trust the tale, not the teller. And I think the film that he's made says to me that I think the stuff that you're saying about the old testament is, I think it's more interesting than the film. And I, I remain, I remain nothing other than like, and I just don't get the award stuff at all. I just don't get it. But then let's see what the list does think,

because I think it will be very divisive. It's the ad in a minute, Mark, but first, it's time to step into a very special exosystemed edition of The Laughter Left. Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. She's going to win, but... Listen, before we start, I'm just reading this out, right? I'm purely the most... I don't have this works.

This is like the famous story about the actor being terrible at Hamlet and the audience start booing and he goes to the edge of the club and they don't blame me. I didn't write this rubbish. Wait. Hey Mark! Hey Robbie! Where would you take kids when they're interested in demons?

I don't know. That's right. You take them to the Pazuzu. Oh that is quite good. That's okay. That seems quite good. Hey Mark! Hey Robbie! Talking of Pazuzu. Oh, that is quite good. That's okay. That seems quite good. Hey Mark. Hey, Rob. Talking of Pazuzu. Yes. What's his favourite handwriting style?

What's his little name? What's his favourite handwriting style? I don't know. Curse of. Curse of. Very good. Oh, by the way, Mark. Yes, Rob. Puelly for the purposes of this joke. Do you know what happened to Father Dyer after the events of the film? I do, but for the purposes of this joke. No. know what happened to Father Dyer after the events of the film? I do, but for the purposes of this joke. If I'm fairly for the purposes of this joke, no. He became a solicitor.

That's right, he's now a father-in-law. Hey Mark, did you notice that there's a word to your desperation Cupian every time? Did you notice the bit of trickery, Father's Maren and Karis use on Reagan and the exorcism scene? Go on. That's right, the double crosser. Very good, that's a real good. That's actually not bad. That's actually not bad.

That's actually not bad. One last point. I never understood why the Senate can't do anything just to rest the demon. Can you have charged him for possession? And that is the cherry on the cake. And that is quite enough. That is quite enough of that.

If that evacuating left a lift, Mike, what have we still got to come? We still have a knock at the cabin, which is the new film by Emlai Sharmelheim. There is a new Pussing Boots movie, Pussing Boots The Last Wish are all coming up. Yes, we'll be back after this, unless you're a Vanguardista, in which case goodness me, that outfit really suits you, and your service will not be interrupted. Get holiday ready at Real Canadian Superstore. We'll find more legendary ways to save than any other major grocer. Until December 13th, you'll get a free PC turkey when you spend $300 or more.

That's right, free only at your Super Holiday Store. Conditions apply to fly for details. Metrolinx and cross links are reminding everyone to be careful, as Eglinton Cross Town LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert, as trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals. Be careful along our tracks and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware, and stay safe.

and stay safe. Right, Mark, should we review something else? Yes, let's go ahead. Sorry, shall you review something else? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no there are two critics in the relationship. It was very interesting to have that discussion about the well. I know Simon likes the whale more than I do, but I don't know that he likes it as much as you do. So I think that would actually be a third voice in the thing. But I, sorry, I want to say this again, don't you think that the genius of that interview

is that he does get people to express that, you know, he draws it out of them. I think it's, I've said it before I'll say it again. Simon Meow is the Steven Spielberg of broadcast, it's very good. It's very good. It looks effortless. That's very good. What does that make us?

Let's not even do it. Let's go there. Yeah. I don't even prove. So, okay. Knock at the cabin. Knock at the cabin. This is a new film by M. Night Shyamalan, starring Dave Batista,

amongst others. Shyamalan, I mean, everyone knows this, but famous, of course, for sixth sense, signs happening. Tanked his career with things like After Earth, then made a surprise return with the visit, which turned out to be, you know, a big hit. He's output recently. He's been glass, which I thought was very underrated. Did you like glass?

I was in the middle of it. Okay. I liked it a lot. Old, which I actually thought was pretty good, like a kind of, it's an idea. It doesn't quite work, but hey, you've had a bash in it again. And you've had fun. Yeah, fine. So this is, it's a kind of typical, you know, tale of the unexpected Twilight Zone style. This is what Shyamalan does, these kind of, you know, what ifs. This is based on a 2018 novel by Paul Tremblay, the novel,

originally, cabin at the end of the world, which is a much better title than knock at the cabin, which is not a great title. Same sex couple and they're adopted daughter rent a cabin in the woods, not to be confused incidentally with cabin in the woods, which wouldn't be that hard. Four people arrive, just turn up, led by David East's Leonard. It seems like a home invasion riff because they appear to be carrying homemade weapons. Actually, they are on an apocalyptic, as opposed to post-apocalyptic mission, to save the world.

In order to do this, they say, one of the three people in the cabin must sacrifice themselves or bad stuff is going to happen, his eclipse. You have to understand that we cannot, and we will not choose who is to be sacrificed for you. And just as importantly, we cannot act for you. You cannot kill yourselves. We're not choosing anyone.

We're not sacrificing anyone, not now, not ever. Even if it means the death of everyone else in the world. Yes. Even if I believe the world was at stake, which I don't, that's what it means. I would watch the world die a hundred times over before having a Christ. Wasted of time.

They're never gonna choose to do this. And I don't blame them. The voice at the end of that clip is and Rupert Grint, which is a great credit. And so just to be clear, so one of the three people has to be sacrificed by the other two. So they can't, so he said, we can't cure himself. So whole thing is, are these people mad? Are they telling the truth? Is the world really ending? Are they suffering from some kind of psychosis? So I am

increasingly a big fan of David Batista and he does the gentle Hulk thing really well. I mean, he's, you know, he's the size of a mountain. And yet the whole thing is he's the teacher and he's very kind of reasonable and he wants to not scare them. The rest of the cast are very committed and give thoroughly engaged performances. My problem is, well twofold.

Firstly, it makes no sense, but that's fine because if you're complaining that these kind of things make no sense, it's like the Twilight if you're complaining that these kind of things make no sense, you know, it's like the Twilight Zone episode in which the whole world is playing out in the mind of a young child who can't be made annoyed because if he does, it will destroy the world. I think the worst problem is that about 30 minutes in, I started to think, okay, because I don't, I'm not actually engaged, I'm not emotionally engaged, I'm just watching this as a puzzle playing out. There are echoes of signs and the happening without the mystery of the former and without

the just sheer really of the latter. The other thing that I don't want to spoil anything because obviously if you want to go along and see it, then do the whole thing about are they talking any sense? Are they making all this stuff up? What I would say is, if you compare this to Michael Tolkins from The Rapture, the Rapture is the great underrated movie, which says, what if this was true? And I've loved that movie and I've been a sort of, you know, a zealous campaigner for it for years and all the time that I was watching, knock at the cabin. I kept thinking, yeah, but in the end, it's just a puzzle box. It's not the rapture, which is what if this stuff was true. So, I didn't get bored. I just didn't engage emotionally in the way that I have done with Simonamalan's previous films, and I thought it was pretty silly.

Robbie. Yes, it is pretty silly. I think it's actually, the film of his that I've enjoyed, the most since that really successful early run, I was not as wild about, I mean, I knew it was all divisive, I was not as wild about it as some of the, I think it's very good fun. Wasn't quite as on board with the split-glass thing that everyone else seemed to really get a kick out of.

Split, I didn't really like, but glass, I really did. This, to me, there seemed to be going back towards the really kind of tight construction. And even like the craft-wise, the slightly spillberge and feel of the sixth sense, I don't know what the sixth sense came at, everyone was talking about Shyamalanas being potentially the next spillberge.

Because it had that really subtle loaded camera work and it was all very considered and all very poised and was able to mix real emotion but also with a very scary premise. I'm not saying companions to the Sixth of the Tall, I think, boringly the Sixth of the Tall is probably still the best film. But it's very much working along similar lines and it's trying to marry best film. But it's very much working along similar lines and it's trying to marry that very sinister, very unsettling conceit to something that really has serious emotional purchase.

I thought the dynamic between the family was really well done. The couple were brilliantly played. I think Batista, like you, is one of the most fascinating actors working today. There's nobody else really like him. And I mean, John Senna arguably, to an extent, where you have this incredibly buff former wrestler or whatever he was.

Do you mean John Senna mean to some extent? I'm, yeah. Do you mean John Senna is playing Do you mean John Senna in every role? Debitista is, is very nice. No, I agree. I think, yeah, Debitista is a more accomplished and a more interesting, you know,

Dave Betisbury is what Dwayne Johnson would have been had Dwayne Johnson made so fan tales and so fan tales have been a success because then he would have been tempted to more rules. That's a real, that's a real one. I mean, it was never, never, never going to happen, but had it happened, we would have ended up with Dwayne Johnson doing Dave Betisbury's soul work. Um, Betisbury is, work. Butista is such a great screen presence. I think about Blade Runner 2049, right? It's on that guy's shoulders, more than anything else in that film to establish the mood of that post-apocalyptic,

apocalyptic, mid-apocalyptic, what are we going for? Whatever, whatever, phase of the apocalypse that film is unfolding in. It comes from Dave Batista's eyes and his body language before we see the despiled Los Angeles of 2049. He is such a great screen presence and I think he really is this film's biggest

in every sense, Asset. Have you seen the rapture? I have not. Okay, your homework, Robbie, is to go away and what if you can find a copy of it? Michael Tolkien's the rapture is an extraordinary what if this were true film? And I would hold that up against Noah and anything else and go, that is the set

text. All right, I'll have it in for next Friday, Mr. Carmel. Time now for what's on, were you email us a voice note about your festival or a special screening from wherever you are in the world? I love this, it's a link page on Sunday, but with cinemas it's great. Email yours to chorus fondance. Very good for the, you don't get enough. I know, I know, there cinemas it's great. Email yours to Coruscant for you don't get enough. I know, there can be no high praise. Email yours to Coruscant ascameldomield.com.

Hello Simon and Mark, this is Matty from the Star and Shadow of Volunteer and Cinema and Newcastle. The LGBT Plus History Month were showing history making queer films throughout February and March, with everything from victim to a fantastic woman. Check out starandshadow.org.uk for details. This is Carol Renny from the Kessik Alhambra cinema in the heart of the English Lake District. This weekend, from the 3rd to the 5th of February, we've got the Mint Chinese Film Festival.

It's the first ever Chinese Film Festival in Cumbria. It's women-led and it has a focus on women's representation in film. We've got eight features, including three premieres, two classics, one of which is a silent film with live musical accompaniment. There's a selection of shorts, everyone's welcome. That was Matty from the Star and Shadow in Newcastle, telling us about their lineup for LGBT plus history month, and Carol from Kessikal Hambres and I'm letting us know about the Mint Chinese Film Festival this weekend.

I have to say that's one of my favorite things about this show is that feature partly because of the Elaine Page connection, but partly because it is genuinely thrilling to hear this stuff happening. I know. And I'm not just saying that I am genuinely thrilled by it. So if you've got anything along those lines coming up, please send your 22nd audio trailer about your event. To Elaine event.

Any of you see too. I think it's the only one I can say. Just Johnny Walker at three with sounds of the 70s. Confused some research. He's all heartedly. Mark, should we have one more of you? Pussin boots, the last wish, which is, I mean, I think the best way to describe this

is the latest in the ever-expanding Shrek Cinematic Universe, if we can call it that. So this is up for best animation at the Oscars, where it goes head to head with Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio, turning red, Marcel the show with shoes on and sea beast. And I'll be honest, I don't think it can hold a candle to the competition. I think that's Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio.

But actually, I think, you know, turning red, I really liked Marcel, there are some really, really good compets in this. So I think this is sort of the the run of the litter in terms of the of the Oscar pick. So Antonio Banderis's silver tongue pus has burned his way through eight of his lives. Now he's on his ninth, he is confronted with the spectre of death in the form of this kind of predatory wolf figure. Runs off of this tale between his legs, realizing that actually now he's scared. And he turns his back on his legend, and he ends up in a kind of cat rescue house, where he meets up with a manji chihuahua who is pretending to be a cat and has been terribly abused in the past, and yet is fantastically positive about life as a clip.

You're talking cat, I'm a talking cat, let's talk. I'd rather eat. Oh, not a problem. We can eat and talk at the same time. No, I'm low English. I'm a cis-manuel, you're bandian. Oh, the only thing is, they was a cis-tust. I don't speak Spanish either.

You're funny. Ah, okay, good job. Oh, hang on. Pickles? Is that your name? I don't know expert, but you don't look like a pickles. So the voice there of Antonio Vanderas and Chavir Javi, Guien, I think that's how you pronounce it, but forgive me if that's not correct.

It then turns out that there is a, well, this kind of starts out at the beginning, that there's a star that has fallen from the sky, that's got one wish left in it. And so, push the size to set off on a mission to find the star to get the wish. And he's joined by some hex-kitty soft pause and the Chihuahua, but also on the trail are Goldilocks, voiced by Florence Peu,

and the three bears, Libia Coleman, Ray Winston, Sam Tukayo. I thought it was fine. Not a lot more than fine. I was kind of surprised by, people have loved it. I've heard a lot of people say this is great. It's really, you know, and they've drawn attention to the fact that the directors worked on the Kung Fu Panda films and exciting animation. I mean, I'm sorry to be, it's fine. It's absolutely fine if it was just playing on streaminies on... Yeah, particularly when you put it up, I'm sorry, this sounds like the most damning with faint praise review that's possible. But when you put it alongside the other competitors in the best animation category, it's just...

Very much so. I am completely in agreement with you on this. And I went into this, you know... Sticking it alongside Keanu, with Dotao's Pinocchio, does, I mean, very... I've never seen this before, but specifically this one. I saw this a couple of days after doing the del Toro thing and he used a phrase when we were chatting about Pinocchio. He said he was determined that it wasn't going to be baby-sitter movie. He didn't want to do so. That's a very good phrase. You wouldn't just plonk the kids in front of it. Watch that. Watch that. Enjoy yourself. I'm off to do some housework or whatever it is. And then two hours later, you can do something else. Pinocchio was all about kind of starting conversations.

It was about introducing children to challenging ideas about mortality and about even fascism. Deficitism, yeah. Deficitism, absolutely. But in, and my goodness, because when I saw Pinocchio, I often have this thing where I'm thinking, you know, I can't wait to show the boys, Pans Labyrinth, when can I show the boys,

Pans Labyrinth, of course, they're eight and nine years old. I showed Pans Labyrinth, and now, they'll be and nine years old. I should pants labyrinth, but no. Are they completely traumatized? Social services will be around. The fact that he's made Pinocchio that is dealing with similar themes in a way that children of that age can completely comprehend. And he describes Pinocchio as being the third part

in the trilogy, which is devil, fat bone, pants labyrinth and Pinocchio because they are death and fascism run through, and also fantasy reality, this world, that world, you know, run through all of those films. Absolutely. I'm sorry, I've not come into Riva Boat. No, but in a way, this is the thing about pushing Boots last wishes.

You start talking about other films because there's not much to say about it. There is fine. Even the stuff that is well done is from other films. So there's an action sequence at the start where Pooce Boots is fighting this kind of moss giant that rears up. Now there are short replicas of classic anime sequences and that's from Neon Genesis, Evangelion. There's stuff from that attack on Titan as well. They've literally said this is what this film looks like. We are now going to plant the Pooce Boots stuff on top of this. The voice cast is just like, I mean, I love plant the Pusen Bootstuff on top of this.

The voice cast is just like, I mean, I love Antonio but there is his voice. If he could just whisper in my ear forever, I would be happy. But it's like, you know, Florence Pugh is Goliologs, so, right? Yeah, Olivia Colman, so, right? It's just, yeah. And that was the end of Teeke Warrant, which was awfully slightly better than, all right. So, production management and general all-round Yeah, and that was the end of Take One, which was awfully slightly better than, huh? Alright. The production management and general all-round stuff was Lily Hambley, Cameras whereby Teddy Riley, videos were by Ryan Amira, Studio Engineer was Josh Gibbs, guest researcher was

Sophie Yvonne, Flynn Rodham was the assistant producer and guest booker Johnny Soshaels was on the Soshaels, Hannah Barbera was the producer and Simon Poole was the red actor. Mark, what's your film with the week? Well, I think by some distance it's EO. You know, I know that in terms of the box office battle, it'll be the whale, but for me, EO is the finer film on every level. Thank you very much for listening and thanks for the opportunity folks, it's been a delight for me anyway. Our extra takes with a bonus review, a bunch of recommendations, and even more stuff about movies and cinema adjacent television is available right now. Yeah, when you say it's been a delight, we've more to do, we haven't finished. This

is where we're only halfway through this stuff now. Then on Tuesday, Ben, Baby Smith and Sasha will be with you for Shrink the Box on Water White. Drink the box on Water White.