Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Cate Blanchett, Babylon, Holy Spider, More Than Ever & Alice Darling

Episode Date: January 20, 2023

Cate Blanchett is the star of  ‘Tár’ and is tipped to win big at the awards this year; in this episode you’ll hear Cate talk to Simon about the impact the film has had on her. Mark reviews Damien Chazelle’s latest film ‘Babylon’ - set in the decedent and depraved world of 1920’s Hollywood, ‘Holy Spider’ a Persian-language crime thriller directed by Iranian director Ali Abbasi, ‘More than Ever’ -  a heartfelt drama starring Vicky Krieps and Gaspard Ulliel in the penultimate film before his death, and ‘Alice Darling’ - directed by Mary Nighy, and starring Anna Kendrick - the film tells the story of a young woman who is pushed to the brink by her psychologically abusive boyfriend.    Time Codes (relevant only when you are part of the Vanguard):   09:55 Alice, Darling Review  18:44 Box Office Top 10  35:12 Cate Blanchett interview  51:58 Laughter Lift   53:55 Holy Spider Review   58:23 More Than Ever Review  01:02:04 What’s On  01:03:45 Babylon Review     EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee!  You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo  A Somethin’ Else & Sony Music Entertainment production.    Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts   To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail]   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Trying to escape the holiday playlist. Well, it's not gonna happen here. Jesus' season for a vacation Fa la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la With sunwing seasons of savings on now, why not ditch the cold and dive straight into sun? Visit your local travel agent or... Sunwing.ca Sunfibas Yeah Mark, yes, I was reading this morning that bringing cake into the office is harmful.

I heard the same as passive smoking. Yeah, and watch the answer is no, it isn't. But I just realized that our very good team here have provided us with a panorazan before we start the show. Panorazine. Panorazine. How do you spell panorazine? And it's called French. I think that's a little patronizing attitude to the French.

Panorazine. How do you say panorazine? Panorazine. No, that's clearly. You don't say the A, don't say. It's not raisins. It's panorazine. That's what you're saying.

It's spelled raisin. Anyway, you're not... It's a panorazine. But it's the equivalent of one of our's spelt raisin. Anyway, you're not spelt. It's a pan of raisins, but it's the equivalent of one of our team walking in with a fag, filling the studio with smoke and us. Coffee. The only difference is that it's there

because we specifically asked for it, but I'm now thinking that we shouldn't ask for it because it's not good for us. No, I want to ask for it because if I don't have my panorasin in the morning, or such a dinosaur. Well, similarly shaped probably, but you know, I like a bit of sugary bread, first thing. Anyway, I realized that as we start on another show adventure here, you have the largest suitcase known to man. Yeah. Because as you mentioned on last week's podcast, you're heading north. I'm heading to, well, I simply saying

Trump's though I'm heading for a Trump so love party. But as we know, there's no love at party like a Trump so love party. Yes. But I am assured that it's clowns who although that does sound like if you can't say raise that if you can't say panorazer, you're not going to get Trump so right, right? Are you? So we're off to Tromsau for the Tromsau Film Festival where the Dodge Brothers are accompanying City Girl. They are not a band that we are supporting. That is a silent film, what we are playing.

And we're doing a couple of gigs as well. One of them in a record store, which is very nice. And then another one somewhere else. And apparently, the temperature in Trum 2, at the moment, else. And apparently the temperature in Trunc too, at the moment, is pretty similar to the temperature in where are we, Old Street. So it's a very, it says, UK weather has been a useful acclimatism

as a climatization process for people heading to the north of Norway. But I arrived at your house on Monday, with the biggest suitcase, and usually I would only come and stay at your house on Tuesday, but if anyone's been the the the the railway between Southampton and London fell away and so is consequently not running at the word forever. So I arrived at your house with the biggest possible suitcase. And you yeah that's exactly you basically looked at me like okay this is

it you are now moving in. I did text you a picture of Maggie Smith. Yes, and the live fan. Yes, absolutely. And it was just like a joke, but now it's the real thing. There's a real thing. Maggie Smith is sending photographs of you saying, I am now Mark Carbone. Anyway, what we're doing on the show, I can't remember. We're doing loads of stuff. We're reviewing Babylon and on, and on, Alice Darling, the substitute, more than ever, and the Holy Spider. And we're also going to talk a bit more about TAR, just because obviously there's a lot of awards talk, but also Cape Blanchett is our guest. So it's unusual for a guest to be

made available a week after a show, his film has come out. But that's exactly what I think. Actually, in this case, it's a good thing because people have had a chance to see the film, because as you know, there's will have had a chance to see the film, because as you know, there's been quite a lot of control about the film. And so I think it's nice to people to hear Kate launch it, talking about it, having possibly had the chance to see the film.

Lots of extra stuff as well in our extra takes. There's loads of... It's double the nonsense, double the nonsense. Double mint, double mint, double mint gun. Or more reviews. Yes. Potentious, more currently situated, the score is the people eight Mark Cammage six.

I don't like the way it's becoming like the people versus, but you decide our word of mouth on a podcast feature. You get to hear about what's good in the streaming services or what's in the streaming services that Mark might decide is not good, yes, depending on what he thinks. Yes.

He can support us via Apple Podcast or head to extra takes.com if you're already a Vanguard Easter. Oh, I'm so sorry. That's your special noise. I wanted to do that. That's what's going to happen every time I say Vanguard Easter. Crack a jack. If you're already a Vanguard Easter, as always, we salute you. Mark and Simon,

this is from Ruby Olivia Fresson signed female pipe smoker and corporate overlord. Excellent. We haven't had any female pipe smokers for a while. No, this almost certainly dates Ruby back quite a few years to when female pipe smoking was a conversation. What's the thing? Yes. And of course, banshees of inner sharing. Female pipe smoking was a conversation. What's the thing? Yes. And of course, Banshee's of inner sharing. Female pipe smoking. Definitely.

And when it comes on, a little round of applause. Mark and Sam and I very recently caught up with my Dutch friend, Emmy, and she was over visited the UK upon reaching the end of our ex-benedict. I offered to pay, but she said we could split it. Aha, I said, let's go Dutch. I laughed expecting some kind of confusion. She told me that going Dutch is a thing in the Netherlands.

Oh, it's actually, it really is going Dutch. Although they just call it sensible dining etiquette. She said it would be quite a suggestive act offered to pay for someone else's meal, tantamount to flirting. Old friends might agree to get each other's bills if this was a spoken arrangement, but generally her countrymen prefer to pay for themselves. Although it turns out that Hollande source we had on our eggs is not a thing. I'll link it up and Hollande is French for Dutch source. So clearly the French thing

Hollande is from Holland as well, even if the Dutch might say nothing to do with us. Do you know what lovey onglays is as in the English voice? I dread to think. Apparently it's b****, apparently the French refer to tying up and s***ing as the English voice. Right, because source onglays I'm familiar with because that's custard. Is it? Yes, like a vanilla custard. Oh no, that's for the American. Yeah, so source onglays is, like a vanilla custard. Oh, no, no, no. Yeah, so, but sore song glades is,

and a French horn apparently isn't. Yeah. And a core on clay isn't the same as a French horn as being pointed out to me, and apparently that isn't either. Johnny and Madrid is, is on next. Apropos, your recent conversation related to Simon's broadened horizons of a Danish variety.

Yes. A new teams to be supported as a result, which led Mark to ask if the World Cup final could potentially involve three teams competing simultaneously in a single match. Well, I thought I asked that. Well, I thought you'd be pleased to learn that three-sided football is indeed an actual thing and was invented by a dame. Of course, Danish situationist, Asga Yorn, created the sport, which is played on a hexagonal pitch to explain his theory of treo-lectics, a reworking of the Marxian concept of dialectics. The winner is the team that concedes the fewest goals. The champions of the first...

And also Gaines' control of the means of production. The champions of the first three SF World Cup in 2014 was Denmark. Take the Tonka down with sportswushing. So I looked this up and it is a real thing. It's three SF is how it's is how it's referred to and a Danish situation is sort of the they were avant-garde artists like Libertarian Marxists. I mean, they sound immensely tiresome in in my opinion. But it says the, they made a big thing of the fact that the team, the winners, the team that concedes the fewer his goals, that's not, that's, that's football. You know, if you concede the fewer his goals, you've won in football. If one team concedes one and the other team

concedes four, then he've lost. But it a very situation is to put it around that way. It's not that the other team got more goals. It's that you let in less. I quite like you, but I quite, the idea of a hexagonal pitch in three games. So hexagonal is what, so triangle is, well, how many hex, how much excited? So you got, so so you've so so you want team is playing across and the other team is anyway it's just sounds

terrific i'd love to see it sounds to be like roller ball well that's yes and i don't think libertarian marks is soon to that i remember when i was at school i told you this, when Jason Isaacs used to come to school, and he invented a game called Rollable because he'd seen Rollable in the cinema. We weren't old enough, he'd seen it. And he'd be the thing, but he wants to play Rollable. And it was, somebody would get a jumper,

and inevitably Jason, and they'd tie it up in a knot. And then it was just basically people had a fight over the jumper. And we called it Rollable. Very good. Nice one, hello to Jason. Mark Addison says, dear Premier in and Selenie Henry, how very kind of Simon to leave a bedpan in Mark's bed.

My first thought was that it would save Mark from those annoying night visits. The wee small hours have a very different connotation at our age. Very good. Now a warming pan was a warm pan is what you meant. A commonly seen brass wall decoration when I was growing up. It's original use, however, was to have the hot ashes

from the fire grate placed therein to warm the bed before occupancy. And then Simon went on to say that the bed pan was placed to warm the bed to the required temperature of 26 degrees. I wonder what could be left in a bed pan to perform that function. And then I just tried to stop thinking very much.

Thank you very much. It didn't leave a little bowl of we in the bed. What you did do, however, though, last, however, though, last night was you said that you had informed child three that if, if he heard strange walking around noises in the house, he wasn't to be worried. It was the lady in the van who was Maggie Smith, who was there. I wasn't there. I think it's again.

I mean, incredible. If you'd like to send us stuff, correspondents at covidemail.com, that'd be very nice. What is outwatch we go and see? Alice Darling is the featured directorial debut from a filmmaker and actor Mary Neu. He was the daughter of Bill Neu in Diana Quick. The film is written by a lot of Francis. Anna Kendrick, who I like very much, is Alice. She's in a relationship with a swav, 30-something your old Simon played by Charlie Carrick. He seems very exciting and restri-t-but he's very, very demanding. And as the film goes on, it becomes clear that he's more than just demanding.

She wants to go off on a weekend with two friends. But in order to do so, she has to lighten him about what she's doing. Now, we don't have a clip, but we have a clip from the trailer, which kind of sets the thing up. Here we go. Hi. Hi. I'm Susserie. I'm late. So, for my birthday, we're going up north for a week. You're going to come, right?

Yeah, it's going to be fine. Remember this thing I talked about? That sales thing turns out now they do need me to go. Why? Just, I came up, I guess. What am I going to do without you? My beautiful girl. We are so glad that you came.

Happy birthday. Happy birthday to you. We just really want you to relax. Relax in a way. Relax in a way that means you're not thinking every minute about what your increasingly creepy partner is doing. So meanwhile, there is a search going on for a missing girl. A search that somehow seems to dovetail thematically with the central character's own sense of being lost. And suddenly, the narrative equates these two threads, these two predicaments. I mean, particularly at one point in the three, some sort of come together to be involved in the ongoing search.

There's a thing that Anna Kendrick's character says is that there's no way left that where I can be alone, other than in her thoughts. And the film also at one point quotes Mrs. Dalloway, which of course is Virginia Woolf, you know, rimmed one's own. And it's kind of interesting, because you remember that film sleeping with the enemy. It's from actually way, way back. Yes, I was going to say it. I'm talking about it.

But it has that similar sort of vibe at the beginning that what looks to be sort of, you know, an idyllic relationship actually is much more sinister. And the music is doing all in that bit that we've just heard. Precisely so. All that, if there was no music, when he says something like, how will I, how will I cope without you or something? That wouldn't sound creepy, but the music is telling you. And it's out. And interestingly enough, the music by O'Mill Palette, interestingly enough, when I saw the film, I didn't know anything about it at all. And I thought, at the beginning, it was a rom-com, because that's kind of what it looked

like. And then it starts to sort of work this thing out. Obviously, people are going to see it. They will know because they will have seen the trailer. And you generally know something about a movie. It's a privilege of movie critics that you get to see films knowing absolutely nothing. And I understand that that's not something that anyone else would get. But what I liked was the way in which it slowly started to reveal this atmosphere of somebody being controlled, somebody being imprisoned by this circumstance,

somebody being gaslit. There's this recurrent thing that she does with her, that she's playing with her hair, and she's starting to pull little bits of her hair out. And you start to see this very sort of oppressive relationship, but it's done much more through suggestion than anything, kind of, you know, immediately. Like, the reason I liked it was I thought it had a good atmosphere. I thought anachemic was very good in that role. I mean, so much so that at the beginning of the film, I didn't know where the film was going.

The music is effective. There's a sort of the end of it. There's a song. Do you ever heard of Hanako in? Because Hanako in? No. Okay, so there's an album by Hanukkah and called Pleasure Boy, which has got a song on it called Baby, which they played at the end of it. I hadn't heard it before. Other listeners may well have done it, but this is probably my ignorance. But it's a very, very haunting song

that plays over the end of the film. And I was left thinking about the movie quite a lot afterwards, thinking what really worked for me about it was I didn't, I wasn't sure where it was going or how heavily it was going to play its hand. And it did a very, very good job of just portraying one of those circumstances in which somebody finds themselves in a situation which is closing in on them, but they're trying to give the impression that that isn't happening.

And I thought it was well done. I mean, it's low key and I think it benefits from that and it's not a film full of explosive confrontations, but I thought it was effective and creepy. And creepy in as much as it is creepy, but also it has a creeping sense to it. That the story is revealed gradually. I thought it was very well done. Anyway, it's called Alice Darling. Is there a comma after Alice?

Alice, yeah, comma, darling. Okay. As opposed to Alice Darling being one of the children from Peter Pan. I understand. Or daughter of the former chancellor. Oh, so yeah, okay. So the Alice, so the darling is actually quite sinister use of the word. Precisely so. Okay, that's very interesting. When you were talking about not being sure

where it's going, I was, I watched the TV series this week called Echo Three, which is on Apple. And there are six episodes. No, I can't remember. Anyway, I've seen it all. And halfway through this, I remember saying, I genuinely have no idea what's going to happen next. And normally you have, okay, I can see, that's gonna happen, then that's gonna be rescued,

and then that's gonna have absolutely no idea. Well, later on, we're going to talk about a television program, which after two hours, I didn't know, and frankly, didn't care. Excellent. Okay, I did. Well, later on, we're going to talk about a television program, which after two hours, I didn't know, and frankly, didn't care. Excellent. Okay. Still to come on this fabulous edition of Kermit and Mayo's take. I'll have to go on to the bit on the script where it says that, oh, yes, reviews of the substitute more than ever, Babylon, Holy Spider. And yes, well, we're going to talk to Kate Banschett. Kate Banschett. She's, she's on the way. When you say we, I'm going to, we're going to talk to Kate Banschett. She's, she's, she's on the way.

Will you say we? I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to listen to you talking to us. Time for the ads, unless you're in the vanguard, in which case we'll be back before you can say Gus Caesar. Hi, I'm steam podcast listeners, Simon Mayo. I'm Mark Kermot here. I'm excited to let you know that the new season of the Crown and the Crown, the official podcast, returns on 16th of November to accompany the sixth and final season of the Netflix Epic Royal Drama series. Very exciting, especially because SuperSub and Friend of the show Edith Bowman hosts this

one. Indeed, Edith will take you behind the scenes, dive into conversation with the talented cast and crew from writer and creator Peter Morgan to the crowns Queen Elizabeth Imelda Staunton. Other guests on the new series include the Crowns research team, the directors, executive producers Suzanne Mackie and specialists such as Voice Coach William Connaker and propsmaster Owen Harrison. Cast members including Jonathan Price,

Selim Dorr, Khalid Abdullah, Dominic West and Elizabeth DeBickey. You can also catch up with the story so far by searching The Crown, the official podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe now and get the new series of The Crown, the official podcast first on November 16th. Available wherever you get your podcasts. Happy Nord Christmas.

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This episode is brought to you by Mooby, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe. From myConnect directors to emerging otters, there's always something new to discover, for example. Well, for example, the new Aki Karri's Mackey film Fallen Leaves, which won the jury prize it can, that's in cinemas at the moment. And if you see that and think I want to know more about Aki Karri's Mackey, you can go to movie The Streaming Service and there is a retrospective of his films called How to Be a Human. They are also going to be theatrical releasing in January Priscilla, which is a new Sophia couple of film,

which I am really looking forward to since I have an Elvis obsession. You can try Mooby Free for 30 days at Mooby.com slash Kermit and Mayo. That's M-U-B-I .com slash Kermit and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. month of great cinema for free. Just thinking back to the panorazan that we, I had a panorazan panorazan, shouldn't you, if you're being logical and consistent, should you not say pain, go into the shop, say, can I have a pain hour reason? Because that makes sense. So what you're doing is half French, half English, you're sort of copying out half way through. Yes, you're logic. Okay, but when I go into a popular unnamed sort of say, I'd like a coffee at a panorasian, they know exactly what I'm talking about. I don't

need to say panorasian. Panorasian. No, that's you're taking the get the French. No, bars, that's the French. No, I'm not taking the Mickey out the French. It's an anger. Okay, two things. Firstly, my very good friend, no longer with his Ken Russell, used to refer to Donkey Hotey as Don Quixote because that's how he was taught. Still wrong, man. Well, it's wrong, but then we come back to the same football team Ajax, which is what they used to say on ITV. Jimmy Hill on ITV, Ajax from Holland and then he went to the BBC and clearly someone said it's iAX Okay, I remember when a popular radio one BBC DJ who's named shall no longer be mentioned said and now he's a record by Ryo Speedwagon

I also remember when a popular presenter on radio one said and that was a record by McCammer. I also Also Bruno said, Eq was MC2. So there you go. Okay, now what I was gonna say was, how do you pronounce the name of the person about whom Starry Starry Knight is written? If you were Dutch, you would say Vincent Van Haach.

Van Haach, if you're British, you kind of say Vincent Van Gauff. And if you're American, you say Van Gauff, which is the Jonathan Richer, and have you heard of the paintings of Vincent Van Gah, he loved color and he led it show. So, okay, we always say Van Gogh is ridiculous. It's no more ridiculous than Van Gogh, because it's actually not pronounced that. It's gone off.

Gough is closer to half. Yes, but it's not the same word. And so I think Gough and half are raised out and raisin. But you, they are, they are, it's not the same word. And so I think golf and half are resan and raisin. But they are, they are, it's not the same. I think you're, I think you're being pedanteed. Here comes the chart. The box office top 10 beginning at 14 because NS main is at number 14. Tom Beeson says, after marks emphatic endorsement and being a fan of bait, I want to see Ennis Mayn on Saturday, the cameo picture house in Edinburgh. Okay, good.

What an odd and wonderfully bigiling film. I found its colour-popping palette captivating. Right. In the eerie plot, where you're left completely uncertain as to the nature of what you're witnessing wonderfully strange. Completely understand the obvious comparisons being made to the wicker man and blood on Satan's claw,

which I'm not saying. She's part of the unholy trilogy. But to me, the film that came most to mind whilst watching it was Tarkowski's masterpiece, Solaris, where both films create an ambiguity as to whether what you're being shown is a projection from the psyches of the character, or if the landscape itself is somehow

birthing phantoms to haunt them. That's a good question. That's a good question. David Mason says, O'Connorere, does he say, or contrary? No. The Emperor's new clothes. The film is an absolute waste of time for anyone who goes to the cinema to be entertained.

Kermode, biggie, it up, doesn't change that. Incomprehensible. And all these entreates to see it multiple times are a joke. Films should be understood on one pass. Well, firstly, I'm delighted that those two responses were so completely polarized. Because I know what you said it would. Yeah, I did what I said.

And also, I'm reminded of meeting Lars von Trier and telling him that I absolutely hated breaking the waves. And he said, okay, but you absolutely hated it. And I said, yes, he said, but you really hated it. I said, yes, it's fine. In that case, we'll get on. The thing that he didn't want was anyone to go. So, all right. So, the fact that one of those is like, you know, how dare you and incidentally, no. And the other one is, wow, I was, that's, that's, I think, exactly what the, what the other one is wow, I was that's that's I think exactly what the what the film should do I should say although it's number 14 in the charts It did really well over the weekend. It you know, it I think it outperformed bait

And it's it is doing really well on the art house circuit, you know in the of course obviously it's not gonna You know blockbuster release and it looks like It's packing cinemas out which, I'm just thrilled about this because it is a difficult landscape for independent films to get out there and find their audience. But to see it performing so well across the weekend, and not just in Cornwall. But, you know, around the country, just playing to packed houses on its opening weekend is fantastic. And, you know, around the country, just playing to packed houses on its opening weekend is fantastic. And, you know, congratulations to everybody who was involved in, I mean, Mark Jenkins himself did something like 28 Q&As to go and, you know, work the film. And it's like, you know, you've always said, you can tell when somebody's doing the PR circuit because they've been told to do the PR circuit, or they're doing it because they believe passionately in the project and they want to be out there doing it. Mark Jenkins

is the latter of those. Number 10 here, seven in America, Black Panther, were kind of forever? Have you finished it? No, I need to see child one. We need to be sort of in the same amount. When did you start watching Black Panther last year? When. I think it was literally last day. The day it came out and we were the first people to see it in Copenhagen and then we all broke down and we caught about another hour. How much have you got left? It's about 45 minutes.

I think we'll get there. And there are two Tamil films in the chat. Two of you is the first one and that's at number nine. Yes. So this wasn't press screened. It's a terminal language action-hised thriller. The name apparently means fortitude. A criminal mastermind takes hostages in the bank

is all I know about it, except to say that I know that the BBFC cut it. Oh no, the BBFC accepted a cut version that got a 12a certificate. So now it has only moderate violence, threat injury, detail, sector references, and strong language. So the distributors cut it in order to get a wider audience. However, at the moment,

it is the second highest grossing Indian release of 2023. The second highest grossing. Now let's move to Swiftie through TAR, which is at number. Yes, I mean, I've got some emails on TAR. Yes, okay, but shall we save them until we get to the Cape Blancet in two? Okay, because it kind of would make sense.

We could do that. Okay, and then at number seven, it's Varyshue, which is also a Tamil language movie, which we didn't have a press show here, which is the highest grossing Indian release of 2023, but of course, we're in the middle of January. So I think it's kind of like it was, it wasn't a massive title fight. So I will try and see one of these two by this time next week. In the meantime, if you

have seen either Dunibu or Valichu and forgive my pronunciation, if I'm getting those wrong, please do let us know. Number six here, four in the States of Man called Otto. I was so struck by that email that you read out last week. I did something, I don't do very often. I went back to the podcast specifically to listen to that email being read out. I just think if you're a filmmaker and you make a film that someone has that response to, you would kind of think, well, that's it. My work is validated and I don't need awards or anything else. What better response could you have than somebody effectively saying, and forgive me if I'm paraphrasing incorrectly, that it was a film that made somebody want to live? Yes. And they'd said in the email, which you probably had on the

last show, that they'd been suicidal, they'd certainly had suicidal thoughts for a long time, but the film completely changed their way of thinking. Yeah. It was a fabulous email, and it was, that has really stuck with me. UK number five is Roll Dolls Matilda, the musical. Still packing out the houses. I mean, there's been a lot of debates around the Roll Doll issue and you're going to speak to Steven Spielberg soon. Yes, for the Fabermans. And I wonder whether... Well, we'll see. If possible, I certainly want to go back to talking about

Rob Dahl and BFG, and the fact that we had a lot of correspondence about how Dahl is problematic, because of his anti-semitism, but we'll see where we go. Certainly. It hasn't spalled most people's enjoyment of it. No, because the film itself is, the other thing it's got caught up in is the Fatsuit issue, which obviously is also relevant to the whale, which is forthcoming.

A film starring incidentally, can I just say this, a film starring Brendan Fraser. Why do people say Frazier? His name is Frazier, F-R-A-S-E-R. Why would anyone call him Brendan Frazier? I don't think there'll be time to ask him that, but I don't know. Well, he explained to Adam Sandler, who got it wrong, his name's Frazier. But why would anyone look at Frazier and say it wrong. His name's Fraser, but why would anyone look at Fraser and say, Fraser?

His name's Brendan Fraser. Number four is Whitney Houston. I want to dance for somebody, which was much better than I had expected it to be with a very good central performance. And actually I found the story rather moving and I teared up during the power ballads. Number three here, 21 in the States is Empire of Light,

Dan from Devon, Simon and Mark have just got back from watching Sam and his Empire of Light at the Taunt and Odin, which is my local. I thoroughly enjoyed the film. I thought it was wonderfully cast featuring a fantastic breakout, big screen performance from Michael Ward. Resna and Ross's score was a real highlight. However, colour was what stole the show for me. The film is drenched in blue and orange tones. However, it's done with purpose, not triviality. Take Hillary's bathroom, that's Olivia Colman's character. Tiled in blue, the only warmth amongst the lifelessness is a small cabinet lit by a humming orange bulb.

The buzzing sound fights against the shadowy cold that surrounds it. Without spoiling anything, a major theme of the film is shame. I thought it was so clever that every time Hillary wanted to approach the warm orange cupboard, she was faced with a mirror. Even if Hillary doesn't believe it, the warmth that lies within the cupboard can bring her relief. However, the reflection of shame turns her back to the cold. The whole cinema, even the manager's office in the early stages of the film, is soaked in orange. It's a haven of happiness for Hillary, but when it's time to leave the harsh cold, waits for her at the doors.

Alternatively, the creams and greens of Norman's projector room present organic, authentic and natural connotations. It's as if there is an honesty to this room. This is the grassroots of cinema. It's the magic of the projector, the wonder of the light, the harmony of the pull is the timing of switching from one role to the next. It's just incredible. Can I, sorry, have you finished? Down with populism, polarisation, thank you. I was so sorry, I think the white train that...

I was just going to the cinema and soaking yourself in the colour of empire of light down from Devon I need to sit again because I had missed your orange and blue tones. So what I was going to say was that in a previous life, I would have immediately said, of course it looks fabulous, Roger Deacon's. But actually, it is well worth flagging up that the film is production designed by Mark Tillsley, who is a very, very celebrated production designer

whose credits include, banshees of inner sharing, no time to die, phantom thread, you know, high rise. And I've been involved in the production designers guild awards for a few years. And I said a very famous production designer said to me, you know, the problem with critics is that they credit cinematographers with things that production designers do. Like I remember hearing you, me speaking to you, and saying that a cinematographer had bathed the screen in greens and blues.

And he said, and I remember painting those greens and blues and thinking, yeah, so that's all credit to the production designer. And, you know, because it is a very well-designed film. Charles in Manchester, I saw Empire of Light the Day. It came out, it was very close to being a great film. The performances from all the cast, but especially Colmanare exemplary, the cinematography by Roger Deakins is, at times, overwhelming and the score by Resdenand Ross is achingly sad and a perfect accompaniment to the visuals and tone of the film. There were three or four distinct sequences that moved me to tears, all for very different reasons. However, I agree with Mark's criticism that there's too much going on.

It does feel like five films. Maybe this is the struggle of a first-time writer from what I heard at an online Q&A 95% of this is Mendes' initial first draft, which is in itself an impressive feat. Like Simon, I didn't fully buy the relationship between the two leads. I also felt that the conclusion of Hillary's story during the showing of being there, albeit one of the sequences that moved me to tears, felt wrapped up a little too neatly and came a little too out of the blue for my liking. Stevens' conclusion too, that's Michael Ward's character, felt like a narrative contrivance. Maybe another set of eyes on the script, a few more drafts would have helped that being said, the cast and technical team excelled themselves, and there are some wonderful moments throughout. Despite its flaws, Empower of Light is nearly

a great film that completely exemplifies the power of the film going experience from one of the most quietly moving opening montages I've seen in some time to the beautiful back and forth between the projectionist and Hillary in the theatre at the end. It was also wonderful to see a film as small and quiet as this, getting the level of promotion and marketing that it's getting. More of that, please. Well, in at number three, which means it's done well, you said, in your interview with Sam Mendes, you asked him whether the film would have existed without lockdown and he said no, and I think that relates to maybe another set of eyes on the script. Well, yes, but also it is, you had a very interesting idea that we will see a welter of very, very personal books and films.

Certainly the Fableman's, which has a similar feel to it. Yeah, similar feel. I think Sam mentioned a conversation he's had with Steven Spielberg about the pandemic, which I shall pick up with Steven Spielberg in a future show. Number two here, number three in America is Megan. Emma Thregan. Otis Films says, I think it's worth highlighting that the girl playing Megan is a state gymnast with a brown belt in karate and she's only 10. The head of Megan is a prosthetic, but the physical performance is all hers.

It's a really good performance and a really good film. Someone called Crumble B. Thanks Crumble. The only thing I wanted more was violence. It felt muted. I felt the rating system in the US versus UK is strange. This is a PG 13 there and a 15 here. We can get away with much, much more than a 15, so why can't we have an uncensored version? It's crazy to think this film is the same rating as something like 30 days of night, which is just horrifically violent. This felt like neither a 12, nor a 15 and will certainly benefit from an uncut edition,

which is still likely to be a 15 over here. We should say that the American rating system is utter ridiculous pants and has led to the homogenization of mainstream entertainment in ways that are only really now becoming apparent. We have a proper rating system that actually makes sense. The Americans have a, well, you know, a technically voluntary rating system that makes no sense whatsoever. On the subject of M3, it's good fun and I'm glad to see that it's done as well. I mean, if we weren't in a week in which Avatar was, you know, be him off thing its way around the world, you know, it would have gone straight in at number one, you know, be him off thing its way around the world. It, you know, it would have gone straight in at number one. I think it's really good fun.

I really enjoyed it. I mean, it's not scary, but it kind of felt like it was sly and satirical rather scary. I mean, I was trying to think back to the first Charles play movie and whether that was ever scary or whether it was always just a kind of, you know, like a creepy idea, but I thought Megan or M3Gan. Thriegan and Phantpholstic was really good fun. I really enjoyed it.

I'm just remember smiling all the way through and thinking, I am really enjoying this. Avatar is, of course, still number one, Allakin Cardiff, watching the way of water was a peculiar experience for me. On the one hand, it's impossible to ignore the masses of thought that have gone into the creation of Pandora, the various biomes all look varied and contiguous. Would you say contiguous? I've never said that word out loud. No, I don't believe I am. And the world is both beautiful and presented beautifully, despite his lengthy gaps between films. Cameron is still one of the very best directors at filming action, and he still constructs tense, inventive set pieces too.

But as with the first film, there is a cavernous gulf between all this care and craft and what should be the dramatic core of the film. Outside of the set pieces, everything in the script feels a little like the most stock tropey thing it can be. With a couple of exceptions, the young Navi speak either in little child character delivering exposition only a little blunter than everyone else's or 90s skater or surf bro.

Alex and that's just half of his email. Can I just say on the subject just because it relates to our previous conversation with cinema, whether you love it or whether you don't love it because we started this section talking about in this way. And this main needs Avatar. And whatever you think of Avatar, if it's going to be the biggest selling box of his movie of all times of the year, then good for it

because the... And if you remember listening to Sam Mendes last week, he sounded quite gloomy about cinema. He said it worried. He said it worried about cinemas and cinemas in general. So if Avatar helps, then it's good. Then it's in general. Yeah, well, we talked about this last week. I'm just looking at box office Mojo and it has Avatar

at 1.9 billion. So it looks like it's going to hit the 2 billion that James Cameron said it has to make to wash its face. And, you know, I hated it. I absolutely hated it. But there is no question, as we were saying last week, we had many emails from people who have had a really transformative experience.

More importantly, it's a tent pole release that is packing cinemas out at a time that cinemas need to be packed out. And so, you know, love it or hate it. You cannot ignore it or dismiss it. It is, and I think it is perfectly possible to really, you know, despise a movie in terms of, you know, film criticism,

but also celebrate the fact that it's bringing people into the cinema. And I will say this when you said beginning in an NSMAN needs Avatar, and I said, well, you know, it actually turned out when NSMAN opened in Cornwall, it was outgrossing Avatar on the set of ones that it was playing in, which is a small thing. But how brilliant to have a chart in which N.S.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M.A.M difference. Our number eight movie is Tar. Mark reviewed it last week, but Cape

Blanchett became available, so we talked to her. You can hear that chat in just a moment. Here's a clip first of all from Tar. Time is the thing. Time is the essential piece of interpretation. You cannot start without me. I start the clock. Now my left hand, it shapes, but my right hand, the second hand, marks time and moves it forward. However, unlike a clock, sometimes my second hand stops, which means the time stops. Now, the illusion is that, like you, I'm responding to the orchestra in real time, making the decision about the right moment to restart the thing or reset it or throw time out the window altogether.

The reality is that right from the very beginning, I know precisely what time it is, and the exact moment that you and I will arrive at our destination together. And that's a clip from TAR. I'm delighted to say that its star, Kate Blanchett, is back on the show, Hello Kate, how are you? I'm very well, how are you, son?

You were last on with Jack Black, at the house of the clock and it's almost before that it was Carol and then it was Blue Jasmine. Oh my God, you're taking me back. Congratulations on all the Golden Globe and the buzz around the film, it's an astonishing film. Can you tell us who Lydia Tarr is? Well, you're asking me to describe Anna Nigma.

Anna Nigma is tremendously challenging to play. I mean, on the surface level, she's Maestro, she's a head of an unnamed, but extremely celebrated German orchestra, reaching the zenith of her career. She's about to complete a recording and performance of Mala's Fifth Symphony, which will complete the box set done with the same orchestra, which is something no other conductor has done. And she's also somebody who's about to turn 50. And so she's going through an enormous set of personal reckoning, I think, and in as a moment of

we find the moment we find her in, is emerging from the pandemic, which was incredibly silent. So there's a lot of pressure on musicians coming back to play, those big orchestral works. But she's also, I think, got a powerful inner critic and realises that she's at a point where perhaps she needs to blow it all up in order to keep progressing. Why would she feel she needs to blow it all up? Well, she's outwardly extremely successful and has achieved, perhaps in, you know, it's a fairy tale, in a lot of ways, that this masterwork

that Todd Field has directed and written. But I think the measure of success is often very internally, is often very different from the external measures of success. She's an incredibly very firm and unassailable position of power, a cultural power, and I think that that has corrupted her relationship to her artistry, and I think polluted her relationships. And that's something that she probably knows in the recesses of her mind,

somewhere in her soul, but power is a very difficult thing once you have it to let go of. You mentioned the writer of Directed Todd Field and the fact that he's described as a fairy tale. People say it's my to prick up that point thinking, well on the one hand, this sounds almost like a biopic of an extraordinarily successful conductor. And yet you said a new repeated fairy tale. Can you just explain a little bit what he means by that? Well, Tyra's a film that really defies description, and I've never been in a film that is more complicated and difficult to describe.

And perhaps I don't want to describe it because I'd love an audience to discover it in the same way that I discovered it when I first read the screenplay and continued to discover through the course of shooting it and now talking about it to give the audience the space to engage with it. But I think it's a fairy tale in the sense that there are, I mean, Simone Young, extraordinary trailblazing Australian conductor, who is the head of the Hamburg Orchestra and the opera, but there's very few women who are at the head of an orchestra like this. So that in and of itself means that it's a work of fiction. But you say biopic, and I think that is because there is such, Todd is such a meticulous and rigorous creator of psychological details in his characters, and he encourages that with his actors, so that it feels like you're watching somebody who is hopefully incredibly,

almost fourth has four dimensions to them. And the filmmaking, actually, I think enables an audience to get inside the psychology of the character who is perhaps more available to the audience than she is to herself. She's very hidden from herself because the foundation I don't want to give anything away. But there's so many lies that she has told herself about her past where she's come from, so many things that she's tried to outrun and avoid looking at in her childhood and in her adolescence. An audience can leave the cinema and talk about it as an object. But the artists who make those works can't run themselves.

They can't leave those things behind. And I think that's the same for musicians. So I think that it's a fairy tale and a biopic, but it's also, it's got elements of genre in it. It's a ghost story in a way as well. It's very difficult to pin down. People will have to see it to judge for themselves. Todd Field wrote it for you. So he says. So he says. Well, yeah, and because I've heard him talk about writing the script with a manuscript in front of him and he says, good morning Kate,

when he looks at the manuscript and of course the manuscript is not taught back. But you know, and he said, if you, if you hadn't said yes, the film wouldn't be made. Well, that's very nice. And last week on the program, Sam Mendez was talking about Empire of Light. And he said if Olivia Coleman, who he wrote, Central Parkful, had said no,

he wouldn't have made that movie either. So when you got the screenplay for the first time, what did you think when you were reading it through? I hadn't read anything like it. I mean, it's in a film that's about music. It's incredibly top-heavy at the beginning with language. But, you know, I have 26 volumes of the Oxford Dictionary and a lex kind of musical terms.

My husband's very interested in music. And I started leafing through literally every sentence to try and get to the specificity of what she was talking about. But after about page seven, I let that go because I realized the film makes rhythmic sense and psychological sense. And in fact, whilst I needed to know all of that so that the audience understood that my character had

the unassailable right, quote unquote, right, to be on the podium that she was a master of her craft. The film is not about that. It's a much more existential film. But I think, well, maybe what you're speaking to is you're talking about two directors who invite a deep collaboration with the actors that they work with. And I have never worked as deeper collaboration as I have with Todd.

The dance that he had with his crew and with all of the actors, with the musicians, with the Dresden Philharmonie, who he made this extraordinary music with, was a thing to behold. He is constantly turning the thing over with the people, you know, that he's in conversation with, you know, it was really, really fascinating. You use the term Maestro, right, at the very beginning of our conversation. It's a very loaded word, and I- Is it in what sense? Well, I'm told that Sassam and Rattl hate the term because of all the weight that comes with it, which is therefore always male, except in this case,

and that sense of old-fashioned power, which of course is at the heart of what you're talking about. But... When in France it's the chef. It's not necessarily that way. But I think in a way, there's a term that could be genderless. But I think perhaps what you're speaking to is the fact that when women assume that title,

it's stepping onto the podium is still a political act. They're assessed in a very different way. Even though there's a myriad of extraordinary female conductors, many of whom whose work I imbibed when I was preparing for the role who have come at the art of conducting in very idiosyncratic ways. As did class Clibor, he came in a very particular way. I mean, I've referred to myself as an actor. It's not a political thing. I just, early came in a very particular way that doesn't... I mean, I've referred to myself as an actor. It's not a political thing.

I just, early on in my career, I found the word actress was used often in a pejorative and in diminutive sense to diminish what a woman was doing. So I just naturally referred to myself as an actor. But is that what you mean? Yeah, I just think, I think the feeling is, it's a loaded word and Simon Rat,

I'm not here to speak on his behalf, but is happy to move beyond that. Yes. To collaborate her. Maybe it should be a collaborator. Yes. I mean, the history of conducting is ever evolving, as is music.

And given all of that, what you must have been disappointed when Marin Alsop, who is probably the most famous female conductor on the planet, said that she was disappointed in the film and she said she was offended as a woman, as a conductor, as a lesbian. And she felt that if they'd put a woman on the podium and given her the attributes of a man, I mean, I'm paraphrasing what she said,

but that must have been disappointing, I suppose. Oh, I have the utmost respect for Marin also, as a trailblazing conductor, as I do with Natalie Stutzman and Simone Young and Joanne Follettor and Antonio Brico. There's an amazing documentary that I watched about her. She's extraordinary. There are so many amazing female conductors, but the film is not about conducting.

I mean, she could have just as easily have been a master architect or the head of a banking corporation, which maybe you probably would have been slightly more dull. But, you know, it's not about that. Her set of circumstances are, it's just the Mizzonsen with which to discuss the institutional power and the abuses of power, the seductive nature of power. And I think that having a woman play that role allows us to discuss it in a far more nuanced way. So it's not about conducting. What was it like learning to get on that podium and conduct? I did not doubt for one second that you were a world beating conductor. The performance is a triumph, but to learn the art of standing in the right

way, the way of holding the baton, all of that, how complex was that to be a believable conductor? I mean, the film was a lot about time and the feeling that we can, as mere mortals, control time, which of course is one of our tragic flaws as a species, and trying to beat time, but also shape time, was a singular challenge. I mean, I have always had a great admiration for master musicians and also been the kind of the alchemy that is conducting. But I fortunately had time to, I didn't have the presence to sit in the same room as people because we were us preparing during the pandemic and conducting is so much about breath and presence. And what was startling to

me was that the preparation was silent. And the friend of mine, Natalie Murray Beale, who's an amazing conductor, who fortunately had time, to work with me on Zoom, did discuss it and to pick apart the score and to work out which parts we'd offer up to Todd to rehearse, because it's a rehearsal movie. She said, nothing will prepare you for the power of the sound that will come back to you when you give the downbeat and start to make that music with the orchestra. And I asked Todd because I'm very slow. I said, please, please, can we say that till the end? And he called me up pre-production and he said,

here's the thing, we're going to lose the orchestra because of the pandemic, we have to make the music first. So I was terrified, absolutely terrified. And I guess what I drew on was that courage that you have to have that in that strange, it's a very overused word, but liminal space when you're backstage about to step on stage in front of an auditorium of 2,000 people and begin to play. And so I stood up in front of the orchestra on the first day in very tight jeans pulling myself together. And in my schoolgirl German said to them, I'm not a musician, you are not actors, we have to find our way together. And I hope that we did. They were a supremely generous. And it is an unforgettable privilege that I had. It comes over as an overwhelming film.

It was an overwhelming experience. Well, I wonder, as a role for you, was it an overwhelming... When you reflect back, I wonder if it's one of the characters that will stay with you the most, because that's how it feels when people leave the cinema. The film is overwhelming, and your performance is overwhelming, but from an actor's point of view, is that how it felt for you? Definitely. I mean, thank you so much. That means that means a lot. I mean, I'm still I'm picking it. Todd said to me after I finish, she said, I don't think you should work for a while. I think you need to process what's happened, but I'm kind of voracious and a fonse-acquodon calls

and so you go back to work again. But I still am processing and dissecting it. It's I'd somehow shifted me off my axis and at this particular point in my career, to be offered to play something like this. It's sort of a once in a lifetime experience. And so I, you know, the questions and the examination and the investigation of everything that the screenplay threw up, continued throughout the process of filming and continues now between Todd. You know, it was one of the most extraordinary collaborations

I've ever had. And with Nina, of course, and with Noa and me, and Sophie Cower and the crew, it was remarkable. I hope the audience gets to experience some of that kind of life force that we all felt moving through us when we were making it. Might we see more of Lydia tell? I don't know. I don't know.

I think we should. Yeah, maybe take the accent off the A and add the R onto the end. I don't know, I feel. Yeah, she's somewhere. Well, Cape Blanche, it's always a pleasure. Thank you very much, Andy. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Cape Blanche, it's always a pleasure. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. Let me say she was quite intrigued with that last... Shall I'll be to see more of Lydia Tar. Yeah. That conversation continued when we stopped. Good idea. Recording. Anyway, let's just say that, first of all, Cape Blanche, what an extraordinary woman she is so brilliant to interview. You could hear all the thought processes going, you know, she brings so much to a role and she's just delightful to speak to. Can I just say that I thought it was very telling when she said, you know, I have never had

a greater collaboration with a director than I have with Todd and I thought Hayden's for Carol. Another one of the great roles. There was, when Scarlett Radio, who we both worked for, was setting up as a new classical music station, one of the names that they considered was Maestro, and one of the reasons why it was rejected is because of its overwhelmingly male, overwhelmingly kind of old-fashioned feel,

which is why I asked her about the term, because she isn't my strut. They don't use that term. They use the use master. And to the Marin also, which she knew was going to come up and the director, they do the same answer at that point, which is that it's not about conducting. It's not about conducting. It could have been about a bank. It's not about a shark. It is about conducting. It is also about power. But anyway, that was that was the way the interview went. And she's just brilliant. I mean, I, it's, I struggle to think of somebody who gives more complete, fully fledged, grammatically correct, intelligent answers to questions. And I, but you

know, you've interviewed her before. It's towards ever thus. I mean, even I had forgotten that you had interviewed her for the house at the clock in the walls. And I think that even with that, I've forgotten the film. No. It was a house with clocks in the walls.

But even that she spoke about, you know, engagingly and intelligently. I mean, I have reservations about Tara, but they aren't about her performance. And we have got lots of correspondence on Tar, which we'll get to later on, the Pac-Show. Yeah, it is. Before we go any further, they've delighted to say,

adds in a moment, unless you're a van Gogh needs to, but let's step together. There's no way of skipping this, unless you just fast-forward into our laughter lift. F***ing. F***ing. Is that gap is slightly too long? I know, it's that gap where I was just thinking, are the doors ever going to shut? I don't know, it's like Mary Mungo and Mitch. Anyway, Mark, one of those awful London things happened to me the other day.

I was on the tube and a woman sat next to me and started talking to me. I mean, she'd never been to London before. Anyway, the conversation was as inane as you'd expect. Have you got any pets? She said, I said, yes, I've got a goldfish. Any hobbies, she said, well, it just swims around. Just leave me alone. I've been catching, trying to catch up with the end of the Great Escape mark. Started it on Boxing Day, but fell asleep. I've got to the bit where the prisoners are disposing

of the waste soil from the tunnels in their new gardens around the camp. The plot thickens. The plot thickens, very good. Last night for last night. Well, that was going to go. Last night for last night, I decided to write algebraic terms

all over the good lady's ceramicist, her indoors, you should have seen the expression on her face. LAUGHTER So, good news, Mark. A fancy New York-style deli has opened up just around the corner in Showbiz North London. Good. I said to the man behind the counter,

I'd like to buy a cornbfe and pastrami with pickles. Sorry, said we only take card or cash. Anyway, very good, I think. What's still to come as far as you'll consent? Ah, the end of the world as we know it. Are we going to be reviewing the Holy Spider and Babylon? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Back after this, unless you're a Vanguardista, in which case your service will not be interrupted. Trying to escape the holiday playlist. Well, it's not gonna happen here.

Diss a season for a vacation. Fallalala la la la la la la la. Leave the court for a sunny location. Fallalala la la la la la la. Ditch the mittens, grab the lotion. Fallalala la la la la la. With sun-wing seasons of savings on now, why not ditch the cold and dive straight into sun?

Visit your local travel agent or... With banking packages from Scotia Bank, you can put money back in your pocket. That's how Marcus was able to invest in everything he needed to launch his podcast. About his pets. Welcome back to... Petcast! Visit ScotiaBank.com slash welcome offer. ScotiaVing conditions apply.

Okay, we're back. Lots of movies to discuss. What else is out? Holy spider, which is the new film by Alibassi, who is based in Copenhagen. Copenhagen. Copenhagen, wonderful, wonderful. But you call it Copenhagen.

Copenhagen. Copenhagen. The director, you're being wonderful, but you call it Copenhagen. Copenhagen. Copenhagen. The director made that weird troll film, Borda, which is based on a story by the person who wrote it to, let the right one in. Anyway, this is more down to earth. This ends with the declaration that is inspired by true events in the city of Mashaad Iran between 2000 and 2001. And it starts with a quote, every man shall meet what he wishes to avoid. We see the city at night, which looks like a spider,

because it's lit up in the center and these kind of, you know, the roads going off from it look like spider legs. It's a site of pilgrimage. An investigative journalist, Rahimi, arrives. She is investigating the series of murders of sex workers in the city. And when she arrives as a single woman,

she goes to check into a hotel where she gets a very chilly reception until she reveals that she's a journalist. Here's a clip. I don't know, I'm just a little bit more reserved. I'm not a little bit reserved, I'm just a little bit more reserved. No, I'm just a little bit reserved. I don't know, I'm just a little bit reserved. I don't know. I'm just a little bit reserved. I'm just a little bit reserved. I'm just a little bit reserved.

I'm just a little bit reserved. I'm just a little bit reserved. What's the problem? Okay, it's okay. She has two faces there and when she's told she can't check in, it's the face we all have. There's a problem with it. And then the area is fixed. So what happens is as soon as they realize that she's there, oh yes suddenly we don't have a problem with it because you're not the person then she has a different face. So the identity of the killer is really hardly a mystery because the film sort of shows us very early on who the spider killer is. Somebody who claims to be waging a jihad against vice and says that they are going to rid the street of haurs.

But we meet this person who they pray, they have a family life, they have wife children. He's a builder who we discover at one point wishes that he had been martyred in the war. He wants to make something of himself and he thinks that what he's doing is that, but the film also kind of very clearly shows the way in which what he's also doing is fulfilling his own desires whilst hiding it behind a kind of mask of, you know, I am waging a war against vice. Here's the thing about the film. The juxtaposition of domesticity and murder is horrible. The treatment of the journalist who is accused of turning her own life into a scandal sort of creates this, you know, the kind of environment in which this misogyny is absolutely

pervasive. Meanwhile, the police are getting nowhere solving the crimes and the mother of environment in which this misogyny is absolutely pervasive. Meanwhile, the police are getting nowhere solving the crimes. And the mother of one of the victims says, he's cleaning up the streets for them. Why do you think they'd arrest him? Now, obviously, there are echoes of the Peter Suckliff case, I mean, for people through UK audiences, I was thinking at some point of Pat Barker's book, Blah Your House Down. The soundtrack has got this kind of creepy, almost insect-like, crackling sound on it. But what's really, really disturbing about it is the atmosphere in which it appears that many people are on the side of the killer. They were corrupt women. Your father took care of it, you know, he was doing his duty. So I thought what the film was about was about this absolutely horrific

culture of misogyny. And now I should say that a colleague of mine, Wendy I, feels very differently about the film and films, feels that the film has a has a brilliant aspect to it. I didn't think that, but I should acknowledge that she does because I think it's obviously film is going to hit people in different ways. There were times that it reminded me of Henry Portray of a serial killer. There were times that it reminded me of, well, as I said, Blahy has done which I take it which for me is a sort of very high bar. It is a very disturbing portrait of a world in which misogyny is a very high bar. It is a very disturbing portrait of a world in which misogyny is absolutely rife and male violence is seen as horribly justified. I found it very disturbing, but I thought deservedly so.

And that's called Holy Spire. It's a cinematic release. Yes, yes. What else do we have to go and see? More than ever, which is directed and written by Emily Atteff, who is a German French Iranian director based in Berlin, the film premiered in Cannes, in the uncertain regard,

Strad, that's a dull regard. Vicki Criebs is Ellen, she's a 30-something lockson-borgish woman living in France who has contracted a degenerative lung disease. And she struggles with her friends and her relationship with Mature, Gaspard, I think it was his penultimate movie, who is trying really, really hard to be upbeat and positive, but she feels very differently about her situation, and then she stumbles on a blog by a Norwegian blogger called Mr. So you

can see this is a genuinely it's a genuinely international thing. For any accent is acceptable. The Mr is played by Bjorn Flowberg. He has cancer and he posts nomically entitled beautiful photographs and L.M. contacts him and they start emailing each other. And they have immediately hit it off. He says to her, the living cannot understand the dying. So when she's offered the possibility of a transplant, she tells her husband, I need

space. I don't want this. I'm going to Norway. And her problem, it becomes clear, is that she needs to get away from the relationship which brings all of these issues back to her. Here is a clip. It's true, it's bad. It's like that it's going to happen. elle ne se prend pas de ses questions. C'est vrai, ça fait mal ! C'est comme ça que ça va se passer.

Et toi, tu dis que tu veux faire ta vie avec moi. Mais moi, je ne peux pas, parce que quand je te vois, je vois tout ce qu'on a été et tout ce qu'on aurait pu être et tout ce que tout ce qu'on ne saura plus jamais. Plus jamais.

Un cause de moi, et je me déteste. Tu comprends. Et quand tu es pas là, I'm not going to be able to do it. Because of me, I'm going to test myself. You can't find me there. It's easier. So, again, for those who don't understand the language, what she said, Krushy, was when I see you, this is her speaking to her partner, when I see you, I see everything we used to be,

everything we could have been, everything we will never be again, and I hate myself for the fact that that won't. So the film is impressively unsentimental about its subject, but it's not unpoetic. I mean, it slips between these kind of handheld neorealism, you know, you saw in that sequence, with these sort of watery dream sequences submerged in color and music, there's one scene in which

she goes on a walk, she collapses because she's short of breath because she has this degenerative lung condition. And when she starts to hallucinate, she hallucinates doves flying and she actually says later, it was nice, I was ready to leave. And what the film does is contrast the kind of expansive landscape into which she's gone, extraordinary, you know, beautiful landscape with the closing in that she feels, the sort of small interiors of the drama. And I thought what the film was very good at depicting was both the intimacy and the isolation of the central couple. I mean, some of the more intimate scenes reminded me, and again, this is a very

high part of don't look now because I actually felt that I was watching two people having a conversation through physicality. The conversation was about grief and separation and love and love lost and love attempted to be rekindled. I mean, it's about coming to terms with your own life and your own death and doing someone your own terms. I found it very moving, but the things that I found most moving with the physicality, as I said, I think those scenes comparing them to don't look now, I mean that as a very high compliment,

that I felt like you were watching two people communicating physically and communicating about the fact that they were failing to communicate. Again, not the easiest film to watch, but I think well judged. It's a very trivial point and I apologize for making it fabulous knitwear. Oh yes, she's wearing the most amazing, amazing knitwear. That's not really the key point that you're trying to get us out. Straight to the heart of the peripherals. I bet she took that home. I bet she said to wardrobe.

I'd like to know. I bet it was hers. Maybe, maybe it was hers. We're going to talk about Babylon in just a moment now. Let's talk about what's on first of all, is where you email us a voice note about maybe a festival or special screening that you have from wherever you are in the world.

You send it to correspondentsaconamayo.com. Here we go with this week's correspondence. Hello, Simon and Mark. TAPES 5th Coastline Film Festival. From the 26th to the 29th of January. Film Premiers. Q&A panels with guests including Studio Ghibli, plus a maiden Wales event. At Tape Music and Film in Old Coloring, North Wales. Check us out on

social media. Book tickets while you can. Hello Simon on the mark. This is Junco. Just a Pan Foundation touring film programme start from 3rd of 5, visiting 24 cities in UK. 172 screenings over 2 months, totally dedicated to Japanese films. So you miss it, it's a crime. Check JPF-High from Film.org.uk. See you there. Can I just say that was very good if you miss it, it's a crime.

It was, isn't it? that was very good. If you miss it, it's a crime. It was, and it was very sweet. That was well done. Steve from tapes, coastline film festival, and Johnco telling us about the Japan Foundation's touring film program. So you get the idea. You make a little voice note for us. You record it 20 seconds, something like that,

an audio trailer about your event. Anywhere in the world, you send it to correspondence at kermetermayo.com. Babylon. Here we go. New film by Damien Chazel. Long and expansive, and frankly, overbiting. So the story, if you can actually use the word story to describe this succession of over-coriograph set pieces.

Basically, at the center of it, two silver screen dreamers. You have Manuel Manitoreore played by Diego Calva and Nelly LaRoy played by Margot Robbie. She wants to be a star, somebody says you want to become a star, she says you don't become a star, you either are a star, you aren't a star. He just wants to work in the movie industry. We meet them in the late 20s and there's Glitzy parties going on. Brad Pitt is a movie star who has these glitzy parties They both desperately want to get into the movie industry They both do get into the movie industry as the industry itself changes around them going from the silent period into the sound period Going from the pre-code era into the into the sort of more corporate era and the film follows their adventures through a series of

glamorous glitzy Exotically deborched back and alien a more corporate era, and the film follows their adventures through a series of glamorous, glitzy, exotically deborched, back-an-aleon revelries. Here's a clip. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Next time, try soft-tempo, okay? But why am I darling, Pierre? Why? Well, hey, move that microphone 45 degrees, okay? That one? Okay?

Got it. No, no, no, no, no. Hey, America, it's not Manuel, it'sunk 45 degrees, okay? That one, you get it, okay? Got it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no singing in the rain and the thing about singing in the rain, going from silent into sound and some people could make the transition and some people couldn't. And the film makes a lot of references to singing in the rain before finally ending up going to see singing in the rain and having one of the most ridiculous end sequences of, you know, kind of stargate explosions of the history of cinema. Here is the, here's the main thing about Babylon. Here's the main thing about Babylon. Babylon begins with an elephant pooing straight into the camera in the first three minutes. And you think, as you do with the, where are you gonna go?

What are you gonna do for a second act? After that, we get a bloke eating live rats in the bowels of hell. We get an alligator chained up downstairs somewhere in some subterranean cavern. We get Margot Robby fighting a rattlesnake, which as it's head cut off with a sword, we get to watch a fatty, airbuckle style event with an actor and somebody relieving themselves at a party. We get people swinging from

the chandeliers and you know jazz me and everyone's getting on, everyone's getting along famously and it just starts at that ten and it just keeps going like that and it just keeps going like that and it just keeps going on the cab and it goes slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly, the music goes on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on it is it isn't entertainingly exhausting and more than that, it isn't intriguingly

or incitfully exhausting. It's just like being yelled at for three hours. It's an incredibly ill-disciplined movie and it may be that within the entire back and alien deborch of it, there are some interesting ideas about the way in which the movie industry changed during that period. But firstly, I love singing in the rain. You evoke singing in the rain at your peril. And when you're in the middle of a movie, which is a sprawling mess of a thing, reminding us that singing in the rain is an incredibly well-disciplined, well-coriographed movie, is not the smartest move. Second, yes, okay, you can have some fun going, oh well, that fictional character is based on that actor and that fictional character

is a bit of that actor and this situation is a little bit of that, that's fine. I mean, you know, Kenneth Angus, Hollywood, Babylon, everyone kind of, you know, had a copy of it kicking around. It's fine. It's not enough to sustain a three hour movie. Thirdly, and I think more importantly, it's like the film just imagines itself to be so much more chaotic in thralling than it is. If you see, you've seen the poster, you know, which you know, Margot Robbie being poster, which, you know, Margot Robbie being hoisted above a reveling, that's what the film's like.

And I found it really, really, really full of itself, way too long. I mean, I said Babylon and on and on and on. And the fact that a movie that's got so much debauchery in it could be quite so uninteresting, really I think seals its fate. You find debauchery more interesting normally. Yes. Yes. Exactly. And it turns up in the new forest. It's not like that. No, it's not like a few. Much short. It's, you know, serious. I mean, the thing with Damian Chazell is, I mean, I, I have liked Damian Chazell's work and

most of you and I looked at the eddie. Remember during lockdown when the eddie was on Netflix and we thought it was kind of well done? This just felt like a, like a, it was like being thrown into a, into a kind of splash pool sewer and told, isn't that thrillingly exciting, you know? And it's just not, it's a mess of a movie. It's an absolute uncontrolled mess of a film. Sun Hutchinson in Austin, yes. I've just returned from seeing Babylon

and I am more than disappointed. I am livid. This plotless meandering pastiche of incoherent excess there we go. Contains the seeds of three different movies, only one of which is interesting, and none of which are original. Sadly, it'll probably win Oscars, I don't know, it will,

because we Americans love graphic depictions of all ages. Oh, exactly. And of Hollywood. But out of puritanical repression, we feel obligated to pretend it's art. I'd like to talk about the good part first. Jovan Adeppo is Cat Anderson, and Lesion Lee is Anna May Wong. The names have been changed, but their story's are un-un-nosed.

Adeppo's jazz trumpeter accounts for two of the film's total of six interesting minutes. Lesion Lee provides the other four. She absolutely commands every scene she appears in. I would have really quite enjoyed those six minutes, had they been presented as two cinematic shorts. Unfortunately, they are divid up and parsimoniously rationed amidst over three hours of despair porn. Margot Robbie is wasted on another type cast, Tonya Harding, Harley Quinn character. This time in the fifth remake of a star is born. Brad Pitt seems to have quite enjoyed once upon a time in Hollywood, but maybe wished he'd played the Leo role. He dials it in accordingly. Sadly, Babylon has no poolside flamethrower scene to save this $80 million of fatuous, ghastly, insipid tedium. This is three and a half hours

of my life. I will never get back. I should have stayed at home, rewatch glass onion and taken a nap. Well, can I just say, I think that did a better job than I did. But he's right, there is some interest to go. That's interesting. Let's do that. No, no, no, no, no, we're back to another orgy. We're back to another fight with a rattlesnake.

Anyway, correspondence, a cabinet, you've seen Babylon on the moment. Yeah, I watched over a rattlesnake. Anyway, correspondence to Kevin, you've seen Babylon on the other side. I watched over a period of a week. I watched over three hours, but it felt like I was watching it over a period of a week. I mean, I watched that for in 40-minute chunks. It's tosh, isn't it? Well, yes, kind of. Also, you very quickly reached the opinion, I don't care about anyone, a single person. Although, as Sun is pointing out, the Javanna depot character,

and leisurely, they are interested, okay, yes, maybe them, but everyone else, no, don't care. Correspondence at combinermare.com for next week's program when you have seen it, please. It's the end to take one, production management, and general all-around stuff, Lily Hamley, cameras by Teddy Riley, videos by Ryan Amira, who we've met for the first time is a real person.

Studio Engineer was Josh Gibbs, the guest research was Sophie Ivan, Flynn Rodham is the assistant producer. Hannah was the producer, Simon was the red actor, Mark, what is your film with the week? It's a hard choice, isn't it? I'm going to go for a double bill of Holy Spider and Alice Darling. Thank you for listening. Our Extra Takes With bonus reviews, recommendations, even more exciting stuff about the Movers and Cinema RJC television will be available on Monday.