Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Daisy Ridley’s surprise BAFTA + Mark on Mickey 17

Episode Date: March 6, 2025

Vanguardistas have more fun—so if you don’t already subscribe to the podcast, join the Vanguard today via Apple Podcasts or extratakes.com for non-fruit-related devices. In return you’ll get a whole extra Take 2 alongside Take 1 every week, with bonus reviews, more viewing recommendations from the Good Doctors and whole bonus episodes just for you. And if you’re already a Vanguardista, we salute you. In this week’s Take we’re travelling back into the past and looking to the future with VR. Yes, we made Simon put on a VR headset thingy—and yes, we did laugh at him whilst he wandered blindly around the room thinking he was in 19th century Germany. That’s because he was experiencing ‘Trailblazer’, a VR experience telling the forgotten story of Bertha Benz, the woman behind the wheel of the world’s first automobile in the first road trip ever taken. Simon chats to the voice of Trailblazer, Star-Wars star Daisy Ridely and creator Eloise Singer. They talk about history’s forgotten women, Daisy’s forgotten BAFTA (surprise!), and whether we’ll all be swapping cinema tickets for VR goggles in the future... Plus reviews this week of ‘Twiggy’, Sadie Frost’s doc about the titular teenage model sensation and 60s icon; ‘One Of Them Days’—a comedy caper starring Keke Palmer and SZA as two broke best friends trying to raise a month’s rent after losing it to a deadbeat boyfriend—and Bong Joon Ho’s big follow-up to ‘Parasite’, ‘Mickey 17’. Starring Robert Pattinson as an ‘expendable’ worker in a barren ice colony, Director Bong’s latest sci-fi flick sees protagonist Mickey ‘reprinted’ over and over again each time he dies—until a duplicate begins to cause trouble. Find out if Mark thinks you should be heading to the cinema on the double! Timecodes (for Vanguardistas listening ad-free): Twiggy Review: 10:24 Daisy Ridley & Eloise Singer Interview: 25:19 One of Them Days Review: 43:28 Laughter Lift: 47:31 Mickey 17 Review: 52:37 You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] And to find out more about Sony’s new show Origins with Cush Jumbo, click here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Well, March is upon us, Mark. What hair-themed movies can you think of? Why? Well, I'm feeding matters of March hair here. Actually, where does that phrase come from? It's a breeding season thing, but beyond the etymology, I'm ready to spring down rabbit holes in the internet. Of course. Well, NordVPN can take you there. You can unlock films and global content with a single click

by switching your virtual location in 111 countries. So you can watch Alice in Wonderland, Peter Rabbit, Jojo Rabbit, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Watership Down. And I can say do it all safely, guarding against hackers and using public Wi-Fi securely. And NordVPN is the fastest VPN on the market, providing smooth streams, oh, Monty Python and the Holy Grail with the rabbit with the big teeth, no lags or buffering. Unwrap a huge discount on NordVPN by heading to NordVPN.com slash take plus with our link, you'll get an extra four months free on the two-year plan and it's risk free with Nord's

30-day money back guarantee. Check the link in the description. Hello, film lovers and moviegoers. This is Simon Mayo. And this is Mark Kermode, bringing you the best podcast for the latest film reviews. description. Simon delves into a whole brave new world. And if you're not following the pod already, what's wrong with you? Please do so wherever you get your podcast. We hope you enjoy the show. Is that a new t-shirt, Mark? This is the one that you bought me for my last birthday, the Radio Luxembourg t-shirt.

Are you pointing that out because you don't remember it or pointing it out because you do remember that? Both. I'm now remembering it, though I didn't at the start of the sentence. So you'd forgotten. Yeah, now I'm looking at it. It's looking particularly smart and rather fabulous. You literally started by complimenting me on a t-shirt that you had forgotten you bought for me, which makes me suspect that it was the Good Lady ceramicist, her indoors, who actually made the purchase.

Well, that might be possible, but only under my profound influence, I would have to say. It looks spot fresh. I think it's a really cool t-shirt. It's radio Luxembourg. The minute it came out of the thing, either you or the Good Lady went, you do know what it is. He was like, yes, I know what it is. I'm offended that you would even ask. Yeah, very good. I don't understand the question. Because the thing about, do you know why Radio Luxembourg? Because I'm old enough to remember us all listening to radio. We've had this discussion before about Radio Luxembourg. Fab 208. Fab 208. Interrupted every now and then by, where was the interrupted single from?

Well, Radio Tirana kind of got in the way of everything. But the main thing I remember, Radio Luxembourg, is the top 30 chart on a Tuesday night, I think, presented by Paul Burnett and sponsored by Peter Stuyvesant cigarettes. As a teenager, I'd never heard ads for cigarettes before, but clearly there were different rules. It was the Radio Luxembourg chart sponsored by Peter Stuyvesant. It always felt exotic. Will Barron But do you remember in the cinema, some of the biggest adverts used to be cigarette adverts, like that silk cut advert in which they hung a piece of silk right the way across a ravine between two mountains and then somebody sort of skydived down and cut

the thing. I don't think it ever even said silk cut. It was just, oh, I was talking to Ridley Scott yesterday. He's got a new TV thing coming out. The good old, and the good old days of when you made adverts and they cost a quintibillion pounds, but yeah, cigarette adverts at the cinema used to be a really big thing. There also used to be, there was a cigarette that was advertised by an image of a pilot's hand with his jacket and all the braid on the jacket to show that he was a pilot and to his end, there was like a control thing for flying an aeroplane and then a packet of the cigarettes that he smoked whilst flying. I

can't remember the brand. I think it was Rothman's. Rotman's Lung Size. That's what he used to call it. I think that's what it was. And lots and lots of cigar ads and some Bruno pipes and the mild cigar found under benches and hedges. I think that's not the nine o'clock news, but it was very good. Anyway, this is all, we don't have ads. I'm not aware of the ads that we're running this week, but I can guarantee there won't be any for Peter Stuyvesant cigarettes. Do you remember? There was a cigarette that was, was it menthol?

It was a menthol cigarette. The advert for it was a picture of some people and a white horse standing around a country idyll. The slogan was, whatever the cigarettes were, cool as a mountain stream. You thought, you're literally inhaling smoke. How can smoke be cool as a mountain stream? Was that consulate? Does that make sense? I don't know. Anyway, yes. As far as misleading ads are concerned, that's pretty good. Last time I inhaled a mountain stream, it didn't have time. Anyway, on this particular podcast, lots of entertaining items, including Mark reviewing these films. Yeah, fantastic reviews of Twiggy, which is a documentary about Twiggy. One of them days, which has been a huge comedy hit in the US, and Mickey 17, the new Bong Joon-Ho film.

And also Take Two this week. what do we know about that? In Take Two we have reviews of On Falling, which is a new release, and it is the 25th anniversary reissue of Erin Brockovich, which you will remember we spoke about last week in relation to Toxic Town with our special guest then, which was Robert Carlyle. However, this week, our very special guests are- So it's a little bit different. So this week, we're going to be talking to Eloise Singer and Daisy Ridley, who are involved in a very interesting VR project. So we're going to talk virtual reality with Daisy Ridley, who is in London, and Eloise Singer, who runs Singer Studios.

is in London and Eloise Singer who runs Singer Studios and she was in Los Angeles. She also has the most famous great-great-grandmother of all time. Did her great-great-grandmother invent the Singer sewing machine? No, that was her great-great-grandfather, Isaac Singer. Oh, really? No. Yes, that's true. Really? Yes. I will reveal who the, or she will reveal who her very favorite, her very famous great, great grandmother is when you hear the clip. In fact, Mark, the tease would

be you've seen her recently in an Oscar winning film. Okay. Okay. Or indeed a representation of her. Anyway, here's an email. Dan in Cardiff. Now, Oscars, by the way. So we did our Oscars special on the Monday. If you're a Vanguard Easter, you've probably already heard it, or you certainly have access to that. And all our other fantastic extra takes, all the bonus award ceremony nonsense. As it's shaken down, we gave all our thoughts about the Oscars in that particular podcast. Anything else stand out other than that Mr Baker is clearly the big winner?

Well, it is. It was interesting that after doing that recording, because I'd been up all night, all day and all night, and then we did the recording. And I said, I really genuinely thought that Adrian Brody's acceptance speech was very boring and bad. By the time I got to the end of Monday, it was generally agreed amongst the film critics with whom I spent the day that Adrian Brodie's acceptance speech was one of the worst acceptance speeches in the history of the Oscars.

And went on forever. Went on forever. He kept saying, I'll be brief. And then he wasn't. He didn't say anything. It was self-indulgent waffle. And there is now a movement to take the Oscar back off of him because the speech was so bad. I was delighted about Enora, I was delighted about Sean Baker suddenly going into the record books for those Oscars. I do, I really, the more I think about it, the more I think the Bond musical number was an absolute misstep. I don't know anybody who thought that that was any good at all. I'd be interested if anyone listening watched the Bond tribute and thought that's a good idea because the more I think about it, the worse it got. Remind, because there's an email here about Adam Sandler, that bit in the Oscars when

he appeared to be thrown out because Conan O'Brien had said something. Was that a sketch or? Yeah, so not thrown out. So what happened was Conan O'Brien was just doing a bit. And then he said, oh, everyone looks great, except you. And then he pointed to in the audience on an aisle seat, so it was a stage thing, obviously, was Adam Sandler wearing a blue sweatshirt and shorts. And he said, and I said, what?, well, you know, you're not wearing a suit. And then Adam Sandler did a well, why should I wear a suit? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then Adam Sandler got up. So why are you picking on me? And then he walked out. Now, when I got to the first screening, a colleague of mine said, I think that was a joke about President Zelensky

not wearing a suit in the White House meeting with, you know House meeting with Tweedledum and Tweedledee. Everyone I was with went, was it? I don't think it was. I genuinely don't think if it was, nobody got it apart from- Okay, well, here's an alternative reading from Dan Inkardich. Okay, go ahead. This is just a little theory with regards to the Adam Sandler skit at Sunday night's Oscars. I think the whole why don't you wear a suit comment is maybe in relation to a certain orange man making a similar out of line statement earlier on the week. Amongst the usual Sandler rambling, he was significantly wearing a blue hoodie, which when hugging a certain Timothée Chalamet,

wearing his garish yellow suit, resembled the colours of a particular European flag, obviously the Ukrainian flag. Now, this could be the case of a smart political joke, or maybe I'm just over-analyzing something involving the man who created Jack and Jill and little Nicky. So does that hold water that if you look at Sandler embracing Chalamet, you get the Ukrainian flag? Well, I mean, look, that's, I mean, it is true. He was dressed in blue and Timothy Chalamet was dressed as a canary.

And then he went up to Chalamet and went, Chalamet! And I was just going to think, I don't know. So it is possible that there was a really, really subtle political gag in there. Judging from everyone I spoke to the morning afterwards, there was only one person in the room who thought that that was the case. I went, oh, was that what was happening? Was I just the dumbest viewer on earth, which I might well be? Everyone else in the room, because we were about to watch Mickey 17, went, no, I didn't get that either. In the retelling with Conan O'Brien saying, why didn't you wear a suit? Sandler

moving out and then embracing someone dressed in yellow. That does sound like a definite reference to Zelensky. Okay. Fine. Still wasn't funny. So incoherent. Still incoherent and not funny, but well done. Okay. So it's correspondence at comandomeo.com. Tell us about a movie that's out. I don't know Twiggy, for example. Yeah, so Twiggy, which as the title suggests, is a documentary about Twiggy directed by Sadie Frost. Twiggy, I mean, I imagine most people know,

but for those who don't, she became an icon in the 60s. She was named Face of the Year by the Daily Express in 1966. She was on the front page of Vogue and Tatler by the age of 17. Here's a quick clip and a quick taste of the documentary. I met her and I thought, oh my God, she's got this fabulous cut in the accent. Tug of London tea. Oh, I'd love this forever if you made me a cup of tea. Which was very unusual in those days.

My dear girl. Woo! I don't know if you've heard her laugh, but she has a laugh that is like a truck driver's laugh. That's her laugh. It's coming out of this beautiful girl. Do you feel out of place because you started from ordinary working class beginnings? No. No, why should I?

So as you heard from that, so the documentary charts her career from working class girl to international celebrity, from model to actress to dancer to singer and much more. And as you heard there, it's a wealth of archive footage and then interviews with Dustin Hoffman, very distinctive voice in that clip, Brooke Shields, Joanna Lumley, Stella McCartney, Robert Powell. The interesting thing about the documentary, which I enjoyed very much, is firstly, it is possible to forget just how much Twiggy did in her career, how much she achieved on stage, on screen, on television, in the cinema, on record. Have you seen Ken Russell's film of The Boyfriend? I don't believe I have. It's a wonderful movie. He made it immediately after

The Devils and she stars in it and she is fantastic in it. She's actually got a cameo in The Devils as it happens. The the really interesting thing is Ken Russell, who everyone knows, Ken was a friend of mine, but I was always in awe of him, always starstruck by him. Ken did not suffer fools gladly or indeed at all. And Ken's respect for Twiggy was enormous. He just thought she was absolutely brilliant. And she is fantastic in The Boyfriend.

She comes out of this documentary really well. She comes out as someone who really well. She comes out as someone who was very down to earth, but also really genuinely talented. Obviously, Sadie Frost has first-hand experience of what it's like to be in the glare of the public gaze. This doc does a great job of telling the story of what it must have been like to be in the middle of all of that. But it does kind of feels like it gets to the heart of its subject. Some of success is fabulous, some of it is hard, some of it is clearly very sad. There's a clip that I hadn't seen before of Woody Allen in inverted commas,

interviewing Twiggy. Woody Allen comes out of it really badly. He's patronizing and he asks, who's your favorite philosopher? And she's like laughing. She goes, I don't know, who's yours? And he comes out of it really, really badly. Sadie Frost obviously has made documentary before, she'd made quant before. She's clearly a talented filmmaker. She also clearly has very, very good contacts. And I think that what you get from this is a very good portrait. As I said, what it must have been like to be in the middle of it. There are so many moments that are really charming, not least of which is the story of when she first discovered that David Bowie had sung her name on Drive-In Saturday. Because, you know, he said, and she smiled like Twig the Wonder Kid.

And she talks about running down the record shop because David Bowie had said her name. And she didn't even know what the name of the record was and then she got it she came back and she played the 45 which he's singing her name then of course she ends up on the front cover of pinups there's a whole story about how the front cover of pinups happened which I didn't know anything about. So you know it's about fashion and celebrity and popular aspect but it's also it's got a lot to say about British class structures, British politics, gender politics, about the world in which Twiggy lived. Several generations of change, obviously, never feels heavy-handed and like its subject, it feels really honest and heartfelt and I enjoyed it very much. So, a great subject and I think a

very, very good documentary about a great subject. And a cinematic release, is that? Yeah. I mean, we always have this discussion about documentaries. It is true with certain exceptions. They'll get cinematic releases, but obviously streaming is the natural home for them. But I saw this on the big screen and I really enjoyed it because obviously so much of the footage is fantastic. You want to see it on the big screen and I really enjoyed it because obviously so much of the footage is fantastic. You want to see it on the big screen because the point at which Twiggy became Twiggy, it was one of the grooviest periods in British history, but also one of the most interesting

periods in British history. I sat next to her at an audience with Rod Stewart, one of those things filmed for ITV. Sorry, I think you just dropped a name here. Yeah, well, you've just dropped a name here. Yeah. Well, you've already dropped Ridley Scott. Anyway, the thing, and there's a point, there's a point in all those, an audience with where famous people ask questions. Yeah. And it's all planned and prepped beforehand. And Rod has clearly approved the questions. And so now all you need to know is that Rod and Twiggy went out. I'm not quite sure how they were an item briefly back in the day. Right.

So Twiggy puts up her hand. She asked the question. Rod answers it. And she says to me afterwards, I don't think he realized it was me. Cause he's amazingly short-sighted. So she, she's absolutely convinced that the question to her former chap, she absolutely wasn't recognized by Rod, even though you would think he might recognize the voice. But anyway, she may well have been right.

Did you sort of talk to her? Because she just comes out of this doc as really, really down to earth and really smart, really talented and really good company. Yeah, no, I mean, it was just, hello, I'm Simon, hello, I'm Twiggy. And then the show was on, so a brief chat then. And then she just said that to me, I think, just because she wanted to say he didn't recognize me to somebody. I'm going to get you a DVD of The Boyfriend because it is such a wonderful film. It's so brilliant and, like I said,

made literally back to back with the devils and Twiggy is in the devils in one shot as a kind of, you know, as a joke. I look forward to that. Box office top 10, beginning at numero chatto leofil le cass social. Are we still doing this gag? Are we? Well, clearly the redactor has come into some serious wine. It's from Colin. It's about the Big Lebowski. Dear Howard and Eunice, I really think Mark is, because this was discussed

last week as a reissue. On take two. I really think Mark is missing the point somewhat of the Big Lebowski. I love the Coen Brothers comedies. I know they get a bit of a mixed reaction from the critics, but I think films like Lebowski, The Hudsucker Proxy, Intolerable Cruelty, Raising Arizona, and my personal favorite, Burn After Reading, are all loving tributes to the screwball comedies

of the 1930s and 1940s. Yes, they are. Any discussion of which must also tip its cap to the 1975 wonderful What's Up Doc. The narrative doesn't matter. It's all about the characters and their interactions. Almost everybody in these movies is certifiable. Don't expect logic, sense and plot development to intrude. Expect fast-paced, sparkling repartee, farcical situations and overlapping dialogue. These are all present in the Coen Brothers comedies.

They are delicate, delicious confections loaded with high spirits, whimsy and outright silliness. Look at them through the same lens as you would the awful truth bringing up baby, my man Godfrey and his girl Friday and you will catch the Coen brothers wonderful drift. For further information, please refer to Dr. Howard Bannister's theory about vocal reverberation under spinal pressure. No idea what that bit means, but love the show Steve and that's from Colin. If I just reply to that, I'm not missing that. I do get it. And of course the Coens themselves said in the, I mean, I do like Heart Sucker Proxy a lot. The Coens themselves said that the thing they were using as the narrative

inspiration was the sort of the hard boiled, Noir-y stuff, because it's like when which the plot is so convoluted that nobody cares and nobody understands because it doesn't matter. That's not the stuff. It is just the thing about the collection of characters. I don't think I'm missing that. I just don't think I find that funny. I still think that the Coen Brothers best comedy is actually a horror film, which is Barton Fink. Barton Fink is laugh out loud funny. And they made these two back to back, you know, they were written around the same time. But Barton Fink is there's not a single scene that you could lose and the film would still

work. Lebowski, you could cut whole sections of it out. You could put them in different order. The film would still be the same. And into the 10 then, Box Office Top 10. A Complete Unknown is at number 10, number 11 in America. I think we've said everything. Yeah. I just Googled the Ukrainian flag theory and certainly it appears to have some traction that some people are reading it as that. I don't know whether anyone has said anything official, but that is apparently the theory is out there in the world and I'm probably the dumbest person in the world because I didn't get it. I guess it's just, was it a coincidence he

was wearing blue? Was it a coincidence Chalamet was wearing yellow that Sandler's thrown out? Well, put it this way, if there's anything in the world that explains why Timothee Chalamet was dressed as a canary, that would be good to know. Anyway, that's at number 10. I'm still here as at number nine. Fantastic. Absolutely loved it. And a great Oscar acceptance speech and a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant central performance by Fernando. You've seen the film, right? I absolutely loved it and a great Oscar acceptance speech and a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant central performance by Fernando.

You've seen the film, right? I have. And can I just, there is one small point, which I don't think has been discussed. There is a moment early in the film where all the families, one of those kind of heartbreaking, all the family are together and they're all dancing to records that have been put on the record player. And there is a moment where they take off an album and they put on a 45, but they don't change the speed. I'm just saying, I'm not trying to undermine the film in any way, but those records cannot be played at the same speed.

Right. Can I just say, I think John Peel would have something to say about that because John Peel regularly played things to say about that because John Peel regularly played things at the wrong speed. It's just that we heard what came out of the speakers. Anyway, so that's it. Conclave is at number eight. The film that didn't end up taking a whole bunch of Oscars home, but still a very good screenplay.

Yeah, exactly. And it is a very, very good screenplay. But as we were saying, if you were listening to the podcast extras, because we did one after the BAFTAs, one after the screen actors and then one after the Oscars, there was a moment in the middle of that when suddenly everyone went, oh, hang on, is Conclave going to be the big winner on the night? No, but it's still a very fine film. Mufasa, The Lion King doing very well. I mean, I know we just had half term, but it's number seven, number six in America.

Yeah. Well, you know, it has earned its keep. Number six is Attack on Titan, The Last Attack. In America, it's number 38. Yeah. This is the fifth compilation of the series and I haven't seen it. And if you are a fan of it on the, I don't fully understand that I've explained this before. I haven't seen it. And if you are a fan of it, I don't fully understand, and I've explained this before, I don't fully understand why these series movies things happen. If you are a fan, you get it. To me, I just don't get it. New entry number five is The Last Showgirl. Which I liked enough. I thought Pamela Anderson was pretty good in it. Jamie Lee Curtis is terrific in it.

I don't quite get the critical adulation that it got. I know somebody was saying on the YouTube channel, I got my awards mixed up as a who won what and who was up for what. Honestly, we're at this point in the awards season, I can't remember who won what award and who got what. It's just like there was a bunch of awards and it was up for some of them and it got some and it's okay, but I just don't quite get the adulation. The fantastically named Bev Hipp says about The Last Showgirl, slight. It's reasonably acted and directed. The lighting

is quite evocative of fading narrative and lovely camera work, but I thought it was intentionally, in brackets, quite ephemeral. That's a very good description. Very good description. UK number five. Number four is The Monkey. Loved it, loved it, loved it. And as we pointed out last week, I was convinced it was an 18 certificate. It's not a 15 certificate. Kids today don't know they're born. Honestly, if you're going to get all this fun in a 15 certificate movie, cheer up. Dog Man is at number three, number five in the States. I enjoyed, we've had emails from people who loved it and people who

absolutely couldn't stand it. The American number one is our number two, Captain America, Brave New World. Well, I think that after last week's email from somebody in the American Armed Forces responding to the comment that you had made about how do we even feel about the idea of Captain America in the current climate. I mean, we're recording this show the morning after Mango Mussolini's political rally posing as a state of the nation. And I thought that letter was,

I think it's one of the best letters we have ever received. It was brilliantly written and incredibly heartfelt. And it really, really felt a reminder that just because Mango Mussolini is the leader of the American people, a huge number of the American people aren't on his side. He won by a weirdly slim, in electoral college terms, he won be one of resounding victory. But actually in terms of numbers, he didn't. And it is important not to confuse him with them. There is an email on that very subject, which will be coming up later. Oh, great. Good.

Okay. So, The Captain America is number two. Number one, Bridget Jones, mad about the boy. Loved it. Laughed, cried. It's all over the place. And it's structurally shambolic and it makes Love actually look like a really, really disciplined, rigorous thriller. But I cried my eyes out in the last half an hour and I loved being able to do that. Coming up in a moment, Mark's reviewing Mickey 17 and One of Them Days and our special guests, Daisy Ridley and Eloise Singer from Singer Studios with maybe the most famous great great grandmother of all time. This episode is brought to you by Mubi, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema. Mubi is the place to discover ambitious films by visionary

filmmakers all carefully handpicked so you can explore the best of cinema streaming anytime, anywhere. Now, Mark, we just had the Oscars. Or for our Hungarian listeners, films like my Dontu Bizocsog now streaming on Mubi. Take it away. Around the world, the International Oscar Collection, which is now streaming on Mubi in the UK, brings together some of the amazing films that have either won or been nominated for the Academy's Best International Feature Film Award. You can watch Pan's Labyrinth, this is Guillermo del Toro's masterpiece. Another round, the Thomas Vinterberg film. And also Son of Saul, which is the winner of the Academy of the Best International Feature

Film from Hungary. All of those are available. You can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com slash Kermit and Mayo. That's M-U-B-I dot com slash Kermit and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. What's up, Mark? All's well. How about you? Well, I've been thinking about that cushion that we gave away at our live show. Yeah.

That and the pencil case. Imagine if we had a load more that we needed to shift. Imagine the riches. Every bottom or pencil case in the country would be graced in some way by our presence. Will Barron Well, when you put it like that, we should have used Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform revolutionising millions of businesses worldwide from people selling compasses to comfy cushions. And it covers all your sales channels from a shop front ready POS system to its all in one e-commerce platform. It gets you selling across social media marketplaces. Oh, and it's full of the industry leading tools ready to ignite your growth. Shopify

gives you complete control over your business and your brand without learning new skills in design or coding. This is a paid advertisement from Better Help. I want to talk to you about green flags, not the kind you find at the corners of football pitches on a Sunday at Hackney Marshes or something. No, I mean the opposite of red flags. Yeah, the positives we look for in a partner. You know everyone has their different needs, right? And if you're not sure what your personal green flags are, therapy can help you identify them, actively practice them in your relationships and build your own green flag energy.

I've used BetterHelp and therapy has definitely helped me identify negative and positive patterns in my own behaviour and that's strengthened me and really given me the tools I need to focus on the positives and seek them out in others. With over 5,000 therapists in the UK already, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise in mental health. So discover your relationship green flags with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash curmode. That's betterhelp, h-e-l-p dot com slash curmode. Now, this week's guests are Eloise Singer and Daisy Ridley. Daisy, you'll know from Star Wars and a raft of other films. Eloise is a director, producer and self-taught video

game designer who has collaborated with Daisy for her latest project, a VR film telling the story of the invention of the Mercedes 35 PS,, maybe. Very early car, essentially. It's called Trail Blazer. If you think that sounds a little bit possibly confusing, try watching the video of me doing it on our social media because it's like any other film of someone doing VR on social media, it's all a little bit stupid. Anyway, so you'll hear a clip from the VR movie Daisy Ridley narrating and then my chat with Eloise and Daisy. There we go. Are you in? Yeah.

Brilliant. Let's not wake your f*** up. I haven't got this walking around thing sussed yet. What was Carl watching? Okay, how do I walk? How do I move from this spot? Every time I try and get closer to something, I end up further away. How do I get my fingers operating? Okay, here we go.

There you go, I've opened the case. Now why is that still on? Ah, now I'm getting sparkly lights over by the newspaper. What was Carl watching? The newspaper, which wasn't all fuzzy before, is now all sparkly. Okay, so I'm in front of this bookshelf and there is a newspaper with like some sparkly lights which is clearly saying

reach out and grab me and I'm trying to do that. If you trust me, if you could see what I seen you'd have thought, this is embarrassing. This is an old guy who's got no idea about this technology, you know, so, okay. Well, that's, hopefully, Daisy will explain more. So that is a little bit of the Trailblazer experience. I'm aware that I probably was making a bit of a fool of myself, but now everything can be explained by Eloise Singer, who is the founder, creative director of the company responsible for this, and Daisy Ridley, whose voice has just been telling me what to do whilst I'm in that workshop. Daisy you're in London. Hello, how are you? I'm very well,

how you doing? This is very strange so that you're actually talking to me now properly. And Eloise you're in in Los Angeles, is that right? I am. Okay and this is your company. Introduce us to Trailblazer and I've made a tentative start. What have I been doing? I mean I think you made a great start by the way. Were you watching? I've made a tentative start. What have I been doing? I mean, I think you made a great start, by the way. Were you watching? I got sent a video. So I got a little sneak peek. Yeah. And you look, you're brilliant. You were smashing it. But so Trailblazer is the story of Bertha Bens, who was a woman in 1888,

who stole her husband's invention and went on the world's first road trip. And it's a true story and it was at a time where women weren't allowed to travel by themselves and a time where cars were seen to be the work of the devil and Bertha was shunned as a witch. So it's a really interesting period of history and what we have done is made a VR experience, which you've just played, where you step into Bertha's shoes, who is voiced by the incredible Daisy Ridley. It's a really, really fun experience that kind of allows you to step back into history. I was very much aware that this whole world is not my world and so therefore it took me quite a while to sort of get used to having a controller in each hand, but the physical

experience of being in the workshop and hearing the sounds of the projector and the crank of the projector and I'm sure many other things once I've worked out how to use them is a fairly overwhelming experience isn't it? Yeah it totally is and I mean it's such a visceral experience I think and that's the beauty of VR and why it's such an exciting medium is that you really do get to step into someone else's shoes and experience the journey firsthand. It's sort of the only form of storytelling really that you as the user have the agency to go on this journey. And as a result, it's a lot more of an emotional experience, I think. So Daisy, when did you get involved in telling this story? Because this is another way of telling a story. but when did you get signed up for this?

Time has become a slight force with me lately. It must have been a few months ago, and I actually have not played it yet. So I'm really looking forward to doing that. But I was so taken by the fact that I didn't know who she was, which is something that I shared when I read Young Woman in the Sea, which is another sort of moment of elevating women in history who've been lost, who did these amazing things. So I was really taken by the fact I didn't know her and with Eloise's work and the idea of what this could be and that very immersive, as you say, overwhelming feeling that VR can have, particularly if you haven't done it before. All of that is quite exciting telling a story like this. It really is a different sort of way of tangibly,

I would say, feeling like you are there really as Bertha. And Daisy, why have we not heard this story before? I mean, it was ever thus, I guess. There are countless women who have been lost to history. And it feels honestly quite amazing to be part of this now, a second woman I feel wondrously part of honouring in a few years. Eloise, who brought this story to you? Where did you find it? It's a very good question. I would love to say that I was like trekking through the black forest in Germany and I came across like this incredible story and someone around a campfire told me about it. Alas that is

not the case and I did just find it on Google. But yeah no I was I was literally just researching this part of history for another project and I literally came across it on Wikipedia and I was like, this is really extraordinary and why does no one know about it? And then I started asking my friends and family and I was like, do you know who went on the world's first road trip? And everyone would just be like, no, no idea.

And I was like, it was a woman, a woman who paved the way for the age of innovation, created brake pads, like created the third gear of a car, literally innovated the car to what it is now, and what we know was the origin of Mercedes-Benz, and yet very very very few people know about her. If I had stuck with with the game, if I'd actually managed to get the car out of the workshop, what would I've been doing? Would I've been on this road trip? So yeah exactly, you basically drive the world's first first car and it's really fun. And then we jump you to the Paris World Fair because in 1889,

Carl, after Bertha took this road trip, was then invited to showcase the car at the Paris World Fair. And it was the first time that they were sort of unveiling it to the world. And as a result, it then became the car that we know today but what's so interesting about that is that Carl was recognized for the invention but Bertha was not and so it's this really interesting moment where you're sort of in our experience you're on the sidelines you're in the wings of the theatre and you're able to look out but you're not able to go on stage. But I think what's so beautiful about it is that in Carl's memoir, he literally says,

Bertha was the reason that this came about and I have my wife to thank for it. And that's sort of the final line that Daisy delivers in the VR experience. And it's so beautiful and very poignant. Daisy, does this feel, as someone who tells stories for a living, that's what you do, does this feel like just another tool in the toolbox? Or is this something, do you think, that's excitingly different? I mean, I feel like for millennia, stories have been told in various different ways. And the way people share stories, the way people consume stories,

now more than ever, it feels like there are so many ways to take part in receiving, giving a story. So this for me feels like another wonderful way to showcase art, to take part in art and storytelling. And I do love the feeling of being part of it, particularly with someone that has been lost to history. And of course, the stakes were so high then. But the nature of this telling Bertha story particularly feels wonderful to me. Because I think to really get even 10% of an

understanding of what she really did is so special that one can feel properly immersed in that story. Yeah, and as we're telling that story, wasn't your first BAFTA credit for your win was for an interactive first aid film, Daisy? Is that right? Oh my God, did that win a BAFTA? Yeah, did you not know? Oh my God, I'm a BAFTA winner.

You've won a BAFTA, you're a BAFTA winner and you never knew it. Oh my God, you'm a best-fitter. You're a BAFTA winner and you never knew it. Oh my God, you have made my day. But yes, that was, weirdly enough, that's actually been coming up quite a lot, the first-aid thing. Because even with that, it's interesting because it was a life-saving app. So it was really an instructional narrative. But yeah, the idea that people took part in that, and it might have helped someone in a difficult situation is really cool. But I'm also just thrilled. Now I know about the factor.

Congratulations. You need to do an acceptance speech. Oh my God, brilliant. And Eloise, where does this sit in? I mean, I'm thinking of it as storytelling, because there are books and there are graphic novels and there are movies and there's VR. To those people who say it's a fad, it's just gonna go away, it certainly doesn't feel like that to me as someone who's not immersed in it but has just sort of witnessed that for the first time and experienced it

for the first time. Where does this sit? What is the potential for what I've just gone through with Trailblazer? I'm really excited about the future of VR. You know, people are looking into how to capture live concerts and put them into VR so that if you can't, for example, go see Glastonbury, you could do it in VR. If you can't go to a courtside, you know, courtside seats of a basketball game, you can do that in VR. And there's going to be a way of capturing volumetric capture

of actors and characters and bringing them in VR and telling stories in a really interesting and immersive way that we haven't ever really seen before and that's never gonna replace film or TV it's just gonna be a different format of storytelling. I think that there's a lot there and ultimately there's gonna be a day where we don't have phones anymore everything's going to be probably in the form of AR glasses. We're going to be consuming technology in a very different way. Daisy, do you think that'll affect your job?

I just wonder whether people will act differently if something is being filmed for VR. I honestly don't know. I mean, I think to Eloise's point, it's expanding rather than replacing. And I think it's so project specific, to me at least. Each, each, I mean, even with films, films are so different and told in such different ways. And this feels like something else that's so project specific that each time will will present its own challenges and its own excitement. For someone that loves to take part in all sorts of storytelling,

this feels like an exciting addition. There's one moment in the workshop experience, Eloise, where, so you are, as I mentioned at the beginning, you're Eloise Singer, you run Singer Studios, and there's one point when I'm in the workshop, and I think that was a Singer sewing machine that was there. So I think it is perfectly valid for me to just say, you come from a fairly astonishing family

Thank you. Yeah, we had a lot of fun putting in the sewing machine But yeah, so my family created the singer sewing machine. That was kind of the origin Fun fact fun fact Yeah, and so Isaac Singer who created created the sewing machine, actually married a woman called Isabel Boyer, who was the model of the Statue of Liberty. So it's like a weird... As seen, everyone's been to see The Brutalist, they'll have seen your great-great-grandmother upside down as Adrienne Brody arrives in America.

That's the first thing they see is your great-great-grandmother. Wow! And Daisy, while you're with us, what do we see you in next? Is it The Cleaner? Is that the next thing that we get from you? Yes, I'm actually going to South by Southwest this weekend to premiere a film I did called We Buried the Dead. And then Cleaner comes out in the UK very soon, yes. Okay. And Eloise, when can people play it, experience it? When can they see Trailblazer for themselves? Experience it. Yeah, exactly. It's coming out on March 7th, so very soon.

And what does it come out on? Comes out on Quest, Quest 2 and 3 headsets. Okay. And if it wins a BAFTA, Daisy will be the last person to find out. Quite literally. Oh no, it is. Exactly. And if it wins a BAFTA, Daisy will be the last person to find out. Quite literally. I'll message you in a couple of years and just be like, hey, just to let you know, we actually, we won that thing a while back. Daisy Ridley, Eloise Singer, thank you very much indeed. And thanks for the experience.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. There's the answer, Mark, to the poser that I struck at the beginning of our conversation, her great-great-grandmother, Isabelle Boyer, the model for the Statue of Liberty. How about that? I don't know what's more surprising. Firstly, that fact, which is a genuine wow fact, or the fact that when you started on this and you said, of course, you come from this family, and not only did Daisy Ridley not know about the one, she had no idea about that either. I mean, how brilliant that this far down, there is a story, and it cannot be true. There is a story that when David Lynch was making Wild at Heart,

and he cast, you know, mother and daughter in the role of mother and daughter, you role of Laura Dern and her very famous mother, and allegedly didn't know that they were mother and daughter until halfway through the shoot. Now, it can't be true. It absolutely cannot be that that is the case. But I was genuinely, Daisy Ridley, sounded surprised when you said that. Yes. Surprised that she'd won a BAFTA for her first aid educational movie. Surprised that there's any relation to Isaac Singer and to the Statue of Liberty. The Statue of Liberty thing is absolutely fantastic. Now look, I have to ask you this because you've experienced this virtual reality thing and I haven't. In fact, I think the last time we did do some virtual reality thing together, didn't we? What was it?

Yes, it was the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra or the concert orchestra. You put on the glasses here and you're on the podium in front of an orchestra. That's right. You could stand there in front of the orchestra. I remember that when that brilliant film, Notes on Blindness came out, there was a VR experience that was touring with the film. It was like a short segment that they had put together, particularly with the sound design was really amazing on that. When you're actually in it, do you feel like you are actually in the world or do you feel as I have always struggled with, I'm in a simulated reality that I don't quite know how to connect

with. Well, I'm convinced that it fries your brain in some way because you know that, in this case, that I was in a small room, that there were three or four other people in there recording and making sure I didn't fall over, that kind of thing. But for all the world, they're not there. I am in a 19th century German workshop with all the tools and the library and all, most of, if I was a master of using the control in my right hand, control in my left hand, being able to move around with greater sense of confidence, then it would have been even more head frying.

Um, I, cause I thought it was genuinely incredible and it will definitely find its place in the entertainment pantheon. I don't think it's going to the cinema. It might be that it's another way of exchanging information. When Eloise was saying it could replace the telephone, because we'll all have AR glasses on or something, I'm not quite sure about that. The idea that you can walk around a museum, you can go around the Louvre, you can be on the front row at Wimbledon. If that Led Zeppelin reunion concert, by the way, if that had been filmed for VR, that would have been an astonishing way to experience a concert. I can see that that would help.

I couldn't wait to take the helmet off. It certainly is immersive, but in a way that until they get the comfort levels right, you might struggle to stay. I would not want to watch a zombie apocalypse movie or game or anything like that. I did end up thinking what would the substance be like in VR? No, thank you. There's a thing that I experienced. There was a technological showcase that they had at the Universal offices some couple of years back. And there was a thing that I think Andy Serkis had been involved in, which was doing VR recordings of stage plays in which you could basically walk on stage and walk amongst the actors.

And the thing that they were saying about it was, okay, it may not immediately appear why this is useful, but actually from a teaching point of view, it's very good. It's not going to replace cinema. It's going to live alongside it. And it clearly is because here comes the future and you can't run from it. And if you've got a blacklist, I want to be on it. I have yet to really embrace it. Not because I have any problem with it at all, but because my brain doesn't quite understand it. I'd be interested to know if anyone else has experienced VR and what their take on it is, particularly its place in the cinematic universe. What it might replace, what it might be good

for. Correspondence at KevinOMoe.com. Laughter Lift coming out, which I'm looking forward to particularly, but let's talk about a movie which you can see in the conventional sense on a screen with other people. And it is on the subject of the Laughter Liftter comedy, Simon, one of them days. Comedy of Errors, female buddy movie starring Kiki Palmer, who was fantastic in Nope and Scissor, directed by Laurence Lamont from a pretty sharp screenplay by Sarita Singleton. Apparently it is, and I'm just reading this because it's what it says it is, the first theatrical R-rated female black comedy since Girls Trip, R-rated obviously in America. So Kiki Palmer is Drew, spelled Drex, who lives with her

artist Fred DeLisa, played by Cesar, in a rundown apartment block in which, you know, bits of the ceiling are falling in and they are on the brink of being evicted. They owe the rent, but Elisa gave the rent to her wastrel boyfriend, Kishawn, who promptly ran off with it, didn't give it to the person he was meant to give it to. So, the setup is they've got until six o'clock to either find Kishawn, who is shacked up with Bernice at this point, and get the money off him before he spends it. Or if he doesn't have it, and it's not a plot spoiler to say, guess what he doesn't, to raise the money. So they run around in a series of half thought out ideas to get the money. They go to a hospital to try to sell their blood. There's a job interview that might solve everything. At one point, they go to a hospital to try to sell their blood. There's a job interview that might solve everything.

At one point, they go to a payday loan place, which has sky high interest. Here's a clip. You want a loan? What are the interest rates? There. Damn, I thought that was the year of establishment. Mm-mm.

If you don't have the money this month, you're not gonna have it next month. Is he here every day? My business associate here has just run into some unexpensive. Occupation. I'm an artist. I paint nails, houses, inner outer, some other shit, but I thought you gave loans to anybody.

Anybody with some proof of income. I do work at a diner. I'm a waitress. I make a steady paycheck. Full disclosure, my credit score is currently, are you having a heart attack? I've never seen a credit score this low. So after they get refused, well, initially refused credit, they then try and sell some sneakers

that are hanging from a power line. People throw the sneakers up on the thing and they hang over the streets. But thereby aggravating the local gangster. So everything they do leads to a kind of more and more catastrophic next thing. So it's a comedy of errors. The film cost about 14 million

and has taken something like 50, so it's a big success. I don't know that it's likely to repeat that success here because it does feel very much like an American comedy and I'm not entirely sure that it's going to have such a successful result here. That said, I laughed a lot. The Six Laughs test was passed very, very early on. There is great chemistry between the two leads. There's a kind of gross out chaos to it in as much as you remember the bit in Bridesmaids when they eat the food and then they're all sort

of violently vomiting and pooing. And there's a sort of version of that scene in the blood bank, not that that's not what they do, but there is a scene in the blood bank, which is a kind of gross out sort of splattery moment. So it has that. But essentially what it has is this sparky interaction between the two leads who clearly have a lot of onscreen chemistry and the script is pretty sharp. So I don't know that it's going to be a runaway hit here, but I laughed and it was, bear in mind, I watched it at one o'clock, the day after having been up for a day and a night and then doing the Oscars recording. It was asking for me to fall asleep and I didn't. Not only did I not fall asleep,

I laughed pretty solidly. Maybe you were just delirious. There is always that. Speaking of which, it seems like the perfect moment to step with Gay Abandon one more time into our lift of laughter. Oh, hey, Mark. Hey, so a bit of a traumatic experience this weekend, we woke up to find that someone had broken into our home. A real violation, as you can imagine, it was very rough. All they had done was crack some eggs into a pan of gently simmering water for a few minutes. Apparently the police think it was poachers. The good lady ceramicist, her indoors, I got that from Conan O'Brien's team. The good lady ceramicist, her indoors, got on my nerves this week though. Right, she says, your posture is awful, Simon Mayo. We are going to the orthopedic insoles shop now now now.

I thought this was an awful idea at first, but I stand corrected. Hey! Remind me Mark, did I tell you my joke about the campanologist with her arms tied behind her back? No you didn't. No? Not ringing any bells? No. Okay. No. In which case, we'll move on because in a couple of moments

time Mark will be reviewing once he's recovered, Mickey 17. Hello, it's Elizabeth Day from How to Fail here. My next guest is actor Gugu Mbatha-Raw, who talks about her failures to be a ballet dancer, a painter, and this. And I've had some crushing disappointments and you don't get to this point in life without going through sad and challenging and weird things. But I choose to try and learn from them and try and see what they were there to teach me. Listen to How to Fail wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, before we talk Bon Jovi, Daniel Kelly has sent us an email.

Prefixed with Dear Bump and Fist, so you know which kind of subject area we're getting involved with. From 2018 to 2019, I was the events manager for Hatchards on Piccadilly in London, the UK's oldest bookshop. Contested, but that can be a discussion for another thread. It's a wonderful shop. Yeah.

If you get a chance. I shook hands with all sorts of wonderful people from Sir Michael Kane to former children's laureate Cressida Cowell, and on one special occasion, Chrissie Hind of The Pretenders. Chrissie Hind was promoting her book at the time and I'd set up space for its launch and a small private event on the top floor of the shop. My initial embarrassment was that upon telling someone, sorry, this area is off limits while I set up for this evening's event, I looked up to realize I was looking at Chrissie Hind herself, who said something along the lines of, I'm hoping I'm allowed in. Following

this, I quickly apologised, though there was really no need. She was not remotely annoyed and was a lovely guest, and introduced myself in a way I had learnt to do with other cultural royalty. I pretended I wasn't shaking inside and put my hand out with a squeaky, lovely to meet you. By the time I noticed her hand was out for a fist bump, my stupid handshaking hand was already resting upon the side of her fist and whatever mental connection humans may one day be discovered to have showed itself to me there and then we lifted then lowered our hands, mine with an open palm resting on her fist in some deformed handshake, never again to be repeated by our species. That does sound

particularly weird. I never spoke to Chrissie again as I'd been working since 7 and it was then 8pm as in 7am and 8pm as is the way with those heroes known as booksellers. I set up the event, then went to have my first meal of the day at Pret over the road. However, a small part of me, maybe my pride, hopes she remembers this moment. Down with publisher-swallowing conglomerates and up with independent bookshops, of which sadly Hatchard's is not. Anyway, Daniel Kelly, thank you. There are clearly a lot of people and their physical contact has been half fist bump, half handshake. It's the fist shake and very, very uncomfortable. I'm sure there'll be other celebrity versions of that.

Can I share with you briefly, the one time I met Chrissie, I was a huge pretenders fan when I was a kid and I saw them at the Roundhouse and I just, I thought Chrissie I was magnificent. And she used to play, she used to wear this leather jacket and she had this telecaster, white telecaster I think it was. And then she used to wear like fingerless lace gloves, which makes it really hard to buy. She just looked so cool. I thought she was the coolest thing on earth.

And then I went to that multiplex Sheppard's Bush way up by where the old BBC was. And I went in to see something in the morning that they hadn't pressed screen. So I was seeing it before we did the show. And there was this woman at the canton and then she went, you're that guy. And I turned and I went, that guy." And I turned and I went, Chrissie Hind. And she went, you're that guy? Yeah. And I went, yes. And she went, you're okay. I went, thanks Chrissie Hind. And then she went off. That's like if your 12 year old child says something that you've done is okay, that is a wonderful moment. So Chrissie Hind announcing that you're okay, means that you've clearly passed some kind of test.

I felt so pleased. I was so excited. Anyway, so that's very good. Correspondence of Kevin and Mo.com, fist bumps, Chrissie Hind, crazy driving, all of this, some of those subjects being picked up in take two, by the way. So let's talk about Mickey 17. Mickey 17, so new film from Bong Joon-Ho who of course made Oscar history with Parasite, first entirely non-English language film to win Best Picture. You'll remember that when it did, Lange Mussolini said, why are we giving this to Korea?

Can't we go back to the days have gone with the wind? The days have gone with the wind when, as you'll all remember, Oscar winner Hattie McDaniel wasn't able to sit at the same table at the Oscars as the rest of the filmmakers because it was in a segregated hotel. Anyway, if the orange one didn't like Parasite, I'm sure he didn't see Parasite. He's not going to like this future fantasy much either, in which Mark Ruffalo plays a clearly Trumpy politician who, having entirely failed to make it on Earth, has set himself up as a leader in space, leading a mission to colonize a new, pure white planet.

Bong has said that this wasn't inspired by any actual politicians, but clearly Mark Ruffalo knows exactly what he's doing. This is adapted from a sci-fi novel by Edward Ashton, which I confess I haven't read. Apparently, they started doing the adaptation from an early version of the novel, so it was right in there very, very early on. Robert Pattinson is Mickey 17, whom we first meet having fallen through an icy ravine and he's lying on his back and he's wondering how on earth he fell and survived. And he's lying on his back thinking,

how, what on earth's happened? And then a colleague, a friend arrives, seemingly to save him, but no, the colleague just picks up his equipment, he's gone, and looks like he's about to go off and just leave him there to die. Here's a clip. You're not mad, right? I'm just taking this?

I mean, it's not looking very good for you, right? Also, line only goes this far. Yeah, no, we're cool. You shouldn't have to take the risk. Uh-huh. Yeah, no, we're... we're cold. You shouldn't have to take the risk, I... Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Plus, they're gonna reprint you back out tomorrow anyway. Yeah.

Hey, Mickey. Yeah. What's it feel like to die? And he knows what it feels like to die, because it turns out he's done it 16 times before. So this is the 17th incarnation of Mickey, who is reprinted each time he dies. The process of reprinting is now illegal on Earth for obvious reasons, but in space he is an expendable. They use him to test radiation, poisons, vaccines. He is the lowest rung of the ladder. He is the person who can be killed over and over again, and they can learn stuff about him. So it is a pretty miserable existence. However, he has a partner, Naomi Nasha, who seems to love

him. And she seems to be the only one who understands the pain that he endures going through dying all these times. So after Mickey 17 falls down the ravine and is left for dead by his friend, Timo Steven Yuen, they print Mickey 18. Only to discover that Mickey 17 isn't dead. Mickey 17 comes home, comes back to his apartment and discovers Mickey 18 in his apartment. So kind of not massively dissimilar to the setup of Duncan Jones's moon, in which if you remember the similar thing happens,

he comes back to the thing and he discovers another version of himself there. Well, Nasher isn't initially quite excited. She's got two versions of her boyfriend. And, you know, well, this is all right, buther is initially quite excited. She's got two versions of her boyfriend. And, you know, this is all right. But also they're very different. Mickey 17 is sort of diffident and shy. Mickey 18 is a bit more aggressive and outgoing, but this is a complete violation of all rules. They are not allowed to have duplicates. But maybe they can keep it a secret. Maybe they can alternate the thing about each one having to die so they don't have to die so many times

because it's unpleasant. However, meanwhile, Ruffalo's Trumpian Kenneth Marshall has declared war on the indigenous species on the planet that they've arrived on, who he calls aliens, although as somebody points out, though we are the aliens, we came here. So things start to turn nasty. So obviously, as I said,

there is a bit of moon in that central setup. There's also a bit of edge of tomorrow as it was called, you know, live die repeat or generation kill, whatever that title was. But the mix of science fiction, adventure, political satire, darkly comic weirdness is absolutely

Bong Joon-ho right to its core. I mean, I remember at times when I first saw The Host, which is a great Bong Joon-ho creature feature, and thinking, wow, this is really true because it is political and it is about pollution and it is about a lot of things, but it's also kind of weird and quirky and funny. Anyone who saw Parasite will know that there is a whole thing in Parasite in which halfway through the film, it turns out to be a completely different film that you didn't think you were watching. There are echoes of Okja. There's a character in this film played by Tony Collette, who is the Trumpy One's horrible wife, who is obsessed with capturing the animals from the planet they've arrived on and turning them into source. So there is a very clear echo there of Tilda Swinton's character from Okja.

And then right in the middle of it all, you have Robert Pattinson, who apparently, I read an interview with him in which he said that he had taken some inspiration from Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber. And when he was playing the two versions of himself, the Mickey 17 and Mickey 18, he was thinking of it as like Ren and Stimpy. But those are obviously touchstones for him. Those touchstones aren't apparent when you watch the film. When you watch the film, what you get is just the sheer Bong Joon-Ho strangeness of it all. I mean, he's very strange. The tonal shifts are remarkable. It swings wildly between genres, you know, sometimes mid-scene even. There are some sequences in it which are full of pathos when you know you realize the horrible life that Mickey is living and the just the casualness with which his

betters in inverted commas just treat him as a disposable person who can be put through all manner of suffering and grotesquery because, well, you know, that's what they can do. There were some sequences which have real sci-fi kind of grandiloquence to them. I was reminded of Snowpiercer and, you know, the way Snowpiercer looked. And then there are other scenes which are kind of madcap slapstick comedy. I think some people will find it baffling. I think some people will find it silly. But if you're a Bong Joon-Ho fan and you're really, you know, you're fine with this genre shifting, shape shifting thing, I think you'll really enjoy it. I mean, no one else makes films like Bong

Joon-Ho. I thought Robert Pattinson did a brilliant job of, okay, fine, I'm gonna throw myself into the Bong world. And again, I have read interviews with him in which he has basically said, working with Bong Joon-ho is completely unlike any movie I've worked on before, that it's all so fluid and it's all so sort of strange. But he is a brilliant visionary filmmaker

who knows exactly what he's doing, even when I think sometimes the people with whom he is doing it don't quite know what it is that he is doing. So I really enjoyed it. I mean, it said dark sci-fi satire with lots of twists and turns and lots of kind of over the top grotesqu camp comedy, lots of weird pathos and strangeness, a sort of philosophical heart at it, which is, you know, this thing about if you die and you're, and you're, you're re I mean, at times actually watching it, I was thinking of the prestige, because the prestige has a similar sort of, I won't give it away, but there was a similar gag thing going on in there. Anyway, I thought it, I really enjoyed it.

And again, 10 o'clock the morning after having been up all day and all night and I was, I really enjoyed myself. Was there any part of you that was saying, oh, Mickey, you're so fine, you blow my mind. Hey Mickey. Did you think that was that running through your head? No, but I'm impressed that it was running through your head, Simon. Yes. I've got this thing seriously badly really, because even talking to Daisy Ridley, what I had going through my mind was Liza Radley from Setting Suns by the Jam. And I was singing Daisy Ridley to that. Did you just convert everything into a popular song?

I'm afraid that does appear to be the case. That's the end of take one. Did you just convert everything into a popular song? I'm afraid that does appear to be the case. That's the end of take one. Thank heavens for that. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh, Vicki, Zachy and Heather. The producer was Jen, the redactor was Simon Pool. And if you're not following the pod already, shame on you. Please do so wherever you are at your podcast.

Mark, what is your film of the week? Oh, Mickey, you're so fine. You're so fine. You blow my mind. Hey, Mickey, 17 is your film of the week? Oh, Mickey, you're so fine, you're so fine, you blow my mind, hey Mickey, 17. We'll be back next week. In fact, not only that, but there's also Take Two, which has landed adjacent to this podcast, thank you.