Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Daniel Day-Lewis and Ronan Day-Lewis on ANEMONE

Episode Date: November 6, 2025

Some exciting news — The Take is now on Patreon: www.patreon.com/kermodeandmayo. Become a Vanguardista or an Ultra Vanguardista to get video episodes of Take Two every week, plus member‑only chat rooms, polls and submissions to influence the show, behind‑the‑scenes photos and videos, the monthly Redactor’s Roundup newsletter, and access to a new fortnightly LIVE show — a raucous, unfiltered lunchtime special with the Good Doctors, new features, and live chat so you can heckle, vote, and have your questions read out in real time. It’s a pretty special week for guests over here in Take town. We’re welcoming debut filmmaker Ronan Day-Lewis, and his dad who’s come with him and is apparently quite famous or something? Yes, that’s Sir Daniel Day-Lewis, star and co-writer of ‘Anemone’—the father-son co-created drama that has brought him out of retirement. Day-Lewis stars as reclusive and damaged former soldier Ray, who reconnects with his brother Jem (Sean Bean) after years in the wilderness. The pair unpack the film with Simon—including how a 16th Century manuscript partially inspired it, their family history in Ireland, and what it was like to write and shoot an intense father-son story as a real life father-son team. Mark reviews it too, along with three more big movies you can head down to the cinema to watch this weekend—code compliantly, obvs. First up, ‘Predator: Badlands’—the latest instalment in this very loooong running sci-fi action franchise which the classic villain turns hero and the hunter turns hunted. In calmer territory, we’ve got ‘The Choral’ too—a cosy drama about a Yorkshire village choir during WWI, led by controversial new conductor Dr. Henry Guthrie (Ralph Fiennes). And finally, the new and long-awaited Lynne Ramsay film ‘Die My Love’—a dark family drama starring Jennifer Lawrence and Robert Pattinson. Reckon Mark’s going to be excited about this one... All the usual email excellence, bantz, rantz, and everything you’ve come to expect from a top Take too. AND Don’t miss our upcoming LIVE Christmas Extravaganza at London’s Prince Edward Theatre on 7th December. Tickets here: fane.co.uk/kermode-mayo Timecodes (for Vanguardistas listening ad-free) Predator: Badlands Review: 11:33 BO10: 19:21 Daniel Day-Lewis & Ronan Day-Lewis Interview: 29:13 Anemone Review: 30:30 Laughter Lift: 57:21 The Choral Review: 1:02:41 Die My Love Review: 1:12:44 You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo Please take our survey and help shape the future of our show: https://www.kermodeandmayo.com/survey EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Mooby, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema. Mooby is the place to discover ambitious films by visionary filmmakers, all carefully handpicked. So you can explore the best of cinema streaming anytime, anywhere. Mark, what have Mooby got up their sleeves for us this October? Well, Simon, there's a very exciting new release coming to UK cinemas on October the 24th, The Mastermind. It's the new film from Kelly Reichard, the brilliant director of Meek's cutoff, Moves and First Cow, which we interviewed the great Toby Jones. It went down a storming can early this year.

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Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguard Easter and get an extra episode every Thursday. Including bonus reviews. Extra viewing suggestions. Viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas. Plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in questions, Schmestians. You can get all that extra stuff via Apple Podcasts

or head to Extra Takes.com for non-fruit-related devices. There's never been a better time to become a Vanguard Easter. Free offer, now available, wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter, we salute you. Hello, brief chat. Okay, brief chat. Throw a mark for a few line-up. First of all, the thing to say is we're in the same room.

I know. It's weird, isn't it? There's no delay. It's a very, very strange thing. Normally there's about a half a second between us, sometimes a full second, but then we adjust the wiring and it comes down to half a second.

Tighten up the pigeon. Yeah. And then it happens to... There's no gap at all. Or if there is a gap, it's because we're just slowing down. So we do a clap test? Yeah, okay. Okay.

Coming to you in three, two, one. It's not bad. Okay, thank you. Corporal Jones. That's me. So why are you in town? Because I've got to do a thing in town, when you say town, you mean London. Yes.

I've got to do a thing in that London or this London, this evening. In the smoke. And then I've got to go on from there to York, because the Dodge Brothers are playing a silent film in York on Thursday. We're doing Beggars of Life as part of the Aesthetica Festival. And then on Friday, we're doing a gig in a very small club. It's called the basement, I think, and it's in the city screen basement. And then in the middle of it, I'm doing another. I'm doing another talk for my book, which has just got a rave review from Richard Dyer in literary review.

And I can't tell you how excited I am about it. It's honestly, Richard Dyer. Richard Dyer. Never heard of him. No, but I have. Okay, well, that's fine then. Okay. So in film academia circles, Richard Dyer is like, you know, he's the topermost of the popermost.

I saw your little entertaining film about the Dodge Brothers. Yes. And there was a new Dodge Brother in there, wasn't there? It was someone I didn't recognize. No. Have you sacked someone? No. I thought you sacked some of your thing.

No, Al's grown up. I thought you got a new person in. No. Like you two getting a drummer in for when they're playing Vegas. I thought you got a new kind of showbiz guy. No. No. Ali is there before.

Mike is there before. And then Al, who is Mike's son. Yeah, but you know, same people. I think there was a new person. Unless they just got a beard. He's grown a beard. Hmm. I think you haven't noticed.

They've accidentally sneaked another band memory. Yeah. I think someone. has been done in, and they've replaced them, and this is a big cover-up. Anyway, the big news over the weekend was, so I was in Belfast, and I was introducing the 1931 Bellagosie Dracula as part of Cine Magic, so I go there every year for that, and our very good friends live in Belfast. I know what this is going to be.

Dennis, our very good friend, is a Chelsea supporter. So we're sitting there, the television is on, and it is, I don't know, football from a hole in the ground, but it is Chelsea, and I go, who's the other team? And she goes, oh, that's Tottingham Hotspur. She didn't say that. Even Chelsea supporters would just say Tottenham and they're useless. And I said, what's the score? And she said, oh, it's 1-0.

We're absolutely kicking there. So I then felt compelled to text you to say, I'm in front of us watching the television and watching your team. And you said, I'm not watching. I'm listening to an album by... Yeah, I can't remember. Streets of London. Ralph McTell. Oh, yeah.

You were listening to a Ralph McTell album. Well, I just thought that was more edifying than... Were you actually watching it? No. Because you're not allowed to watch because if you watch, they lose. Yeah, if I only, yeah, I know, as soon as I turn it on, they let in a goal. Okay, but the thing was, you weren't watching, they still let in a goal. So I would get up the rule, because it seems that they're perfectly capable of losing even when you're not watching.

Oh, no, that's definitely true. Chelsea supporters refer to playing at Tottenham, they call it three-point lane. Anyway, then the next day. I do dislike Chelsea supporters in general. Not my friend. No, not your friend who I've never met, but there'll be a dark, side to her, guaranteed. I did send you a photograph of her smiling and giving a thumbs up the next day in the park when we were walking the dog. That's just what you need. Batten up being in

London and in Belfast being trolled. Terrible. I've never been involved in football trolling before. I did enjoy it. Anyway, but we actually, Spurs beat Copenhagen yesterday, which is a little kind of, it's like a needle match for me. Was child one rooting for Copenhagen? I don't know. I don't think so, because he messaged me halfway through and said, what's the score? And I thought, you can tell in Copenhagen, there are local ways of finding out. Anyway, that's enough football chat, I think, for one film-based podcast. Not bad, though, was it? I did some football chat there. Yeah. I wish you hadn't, though. I absolutely

wish you hadn't. Chelsea. Almost as bad as leads. Anyway, this is an entertaining little thing, because we're both here. Yes. And we've got lots of stuff to talk about. For example, we are going to be reviewing a ton of movies in take one. The Coral, which is new British film starring Ray Fines. Predator Badlands, the latest in the Predator series. Die My Love, which is the new film by Lynn Ramsey, who's, you know, I absolutely love Lynn Ramsey, and Anemone, with our two special guests. She's quite difficult to say that. Anemone. Anemone. Booby-Doo. It is a bit that. Yes, our special guest, Ronan Day Lewis and his dad. Roger. Is it? Something like Brian. David.

Anyway, in take two, what are you reviewing? In take two, two more films, Berlin, which is Argentina's submission for the Best International Feature, Oscar, and Train Dreams. All the other extra stuff, including details of all the best and worst films on television over the weekend, further discussion of the best absurdist black comedies in one frame back, and questions, Schmestians, in which we answer the excellent question, what do we think is the best film title of all, irrespective of the film's quality, brackets, but not the exorcist or Jeremy. What's interesting is it's almost impossible, I think, well, we'll discuss this in question special, to subtract, to take away the content of

the film from the title. Well, is it, I mean, like piranha women in the avocado jungle of death? You haven't seen that film. No, but I'd like to, actually. Yeah. Actually, it's, it's actually called cannibal women in the avocado jungle of death, but when it was released on video here, they had to change the word from cannibal women to piranha women because the BBFC had a downer on anything that had the word cannibal in the title. So all of this kind of stuff is question, shmessions, which is the end of take two. Plus,

let us remind you that full video episodes are now available on YouTube, where you can see our plants. This is Simon's plant, and over there is Mark's plant. Why am I fondling a plant? Because that's your plant. It's at trifid. And you take it home. Very good. You like the monitor. It says here, quick reminder of the good stuff available over on

Patreon, polls and submissions. Behind the scenes, photos and videos. Member only chats. Still sounds rude. Still sounds sorted. Video versions of Take 2, still sound sorted. And the redactors round up monthly letter, which is also sorted. And an entirely new show. Take Ultra is our new

bi-weekly show streamed live from showbiz, North London, Hoban, Cambridge, wherever Mark happens to be turning up, really. And it went rather well. Apparently it did, yeah. People loved it. I still think that bi-weekly sounds like twice a week. Yes. I'm afraid it does sound like that

even though it doesn't. Is bi-weekly? actually genuinely mean every other week? Yes. Does it? Every two weeks. It means. Every bi-weekly. Every other week. Maybe we would just say it like that. Twice a month. Twice a month.

Buy-monthly. So head to patreon.com slash curmud and mayo, one word. The link and discount code are in the episode description. What more could you possibly want? And remember, it's curmode with an R, not chemoed, as it says on the script. The Kermode and Mayo's Christmas movie spectacular is back. It's back on this. That's me. Yes, I know that. It's why it says Mark. It's back on December the 7th at the Prince Edward Theatre in the busy west end of London.

Festive cinematic witterings and characteristic bickering, it says here, live on stage in a sequel that gives this year's biggest blockbusters a run for their money. This Christmas extravaganza will feature all the best bits from the podcast, reviews of the week's newest releases, interviews with the stars of the silver screen and the Christmas Cracker Loft. Plus the return of Simon and Mark's to mind. Our Christmas quiz, spelt with Kays, where the audience members will go head to head in a film buff battle for the ages for a VIP pass to come and have a mince buy with us backstage, which has to be the most disappointing prize ever offered in a quiz.

Price is money can buy. And tip-top guests, including Hello to Jason Isaac's wandering around a fan convention in New Orleans. Garenda Chada talking about her new film of A Christmas Carol, which I think is actually called Christmas Karma and... And to make this a Christmas party, you won't be a... able to forget. Black Lace will be closing the show. Why? You will be pushing pineapples with 2,000 other people as they, what's he now, does Agadoo because there's a new film coming out called pushing pineapples, which is the story of black lace. Is it pushing pineapples brackets, shake the tree? Push pineapples black coffee. Push pineapples shake the tree. You'd shake

the tree before you push pineapples. It's going out the wrong way around because the pineapples won't, you won't be able to push them unless you've shaken the tree. They haven't thought it through, have they? I don't think so. We'll have to bring this up with Mr. and Mrs. Agadoo, or is it just Mr. I think it's just Mr. D. I'm looking for, he's lost the agger and he's just Mr. Doo, doing the do. Sunday the 7th of December, half past two in the afternoon, so you can get home and

everything in time for your haulings. Tickets start at £27.50 and the dedicated pre-sale link is Fane, F-A-N-E-com, dot UK, Take Sunday the 7th of December, half past two. It's going to be a riot in a very kind of calm and respectable way. Correspondents at curbinamere.com. That's where you send emails like this. Drew says, Dear Doctors,

on last week's pod, you mentioned people's offence at derogatory notes on hometowns. I would like to refer you both to Mark's review of Wally from your previous incarnation when describing the desolate Earth the robot protagonist inhabits. Go on. Dr. Mayo remarked that the ruined earth of the film must be like Canvey Island. Dr. Kermode, to his credit, did note that this was not a nice thing to say and that Canvey Island is also the hometown of Dr. Field. As the home for my first 18 years of my life, I've always been astonished by Simon's impression of Canvey Island.

I assure you Canvey is far worse than anything that could be depicted on film. Because the standard joke was something like a terrifying storm has whipped through Canby Island causing millions of pounds of improvements. That was the kind of thing. So it was just like, what are you going to be rude about? Be rude about Canby Island. So I apologise because, yes, it did provide Dr. Feelgood, but it was just Drew, who's now resident of Cambridge, does accept that it's not.

But it did give us Canvey Island, so, you know. Well, it is Canby Island. No, but it did give us, sorry, it did give us Dr. Feelgood. It did give us, Dr. Feelgood didn't give us Cambiard the other way around. The only band with someone called Mayo Inn. Oh, that's right. Jippy Mayo. And he was called Jippy Mayo because he had a dodgy tummy. Oh, right. Okay. Isn't that right? I don't know. Well, it could have been for other reasons.

No, no. I think he, I believe I'm right in saying that he was called Jippy Mayo because he had a dodgy tummy. Anyway, that's fine. That was his name. That's what it says on the album. So that's all perfectly fine. Correspondence at Cervynummo.com. What is out? Tell me something exciting. Predator Badlands, which I believe sixth live action film, seventh overall film, ninth installment in total in the Predator franchise. I'm reading that from the wiki page because I've lost track. So the previous live action film was Prey, which came out in 2022, which was, yeah, directed by Dan Tractenberg, who also directed, there's an animated film anthology killer of killers, which I haven't seen, but I have seen Prey, which I liked very much, and you did, and we both liked. And if you remember, it was sort of stripped that kind of prequel set in 18th century Great Plains, Amber Midthunder, who would go on to star in Opus and Novocaine. And it was released in both English language and Comanche language versions.

And it was actually really good. It was really good, apart from the fact that she had a barking dog. A barking dog? Yeah. That annoyed you. Well, I love a barking dog. But if you're trying to keep secret and hide from a monster, you don't want a barking dog. The barking dog wasn't good.

So this is a very different film. Over here, the Predator franchise previously, been 18 and 15 rated films. This is the first in the Predator series. to get a 12A here and a PG-13 in America. I think in America, the previous ones were all rated R. This has had some Predator fans up in arms. But it's specifically designed to be available to the family market in the mode of the Transformers or the Jurassic Park series.

So also, OZADET to the Terminator franchise. If you remember, the thing with Terminator, Terminator started out as Arnie is an unstoppable killing machine with an 18 rating, and then downshifted into Arnie is a father figure who will do everything to save you in the 15 rated sequel and then wound up in the 12 rated terminated genesis. So now, Predator, the ultimate killing machine, you can't kill what can only kill, you can't stop the unstoppable or whatever it is. Now, because you have to do something

else with Predator, Predator is the good guy. So... Really? Yes. I find that hard. So, Deck, who is shunned by his brutal father as the runt of the litter because he's not dangerous and killy enough. So he declares that he will prove his worth by travel to the most dangerous place on earth, in the world. It's at Canby Island. He's going to Canby Island. Yes.

You will form a band with Jippy Mayo. Fair enough. And then he will also kill the unkillable, I think it's called the Calis, this big monster that even his dad is scared of. So he arrives on the planet. When he gets there, he discovers that Wayland Utani, who, so Whelan Utani are the company from aliens and, you know, the alien franchise. And obviously there's been the alien predator crossover.

They're already there. and they have had their butts kicked, and he finds L. Fanning's synth, cyborg, or at least half of her, because she's been torn in half. The top half of her is working, but the bottom half of her has been left behind. It's disappointing, really, for her. Do you want to hear it, clip?

Yes, please. The ways of your kind are ones of violence. Either you are hunting. Will you become the hunter? Welcome to the most dangerous planet in the universe. Where everything is trying to kill you. Many of your kind have come here. None have survived.

None have survived. Welcome to Canvey Island. That works. So, the predator who's not predatory enough and the half-a-synth cyborg form this uneasy alliance because she knows where the monster is that he needs to kill in order to prove his worth

and he needs to kill the monster in order to prove his worth. So they head off in search of big game now. The director, who, as I said, did the movie before that we really like, has cited as influences, Terrence Malick, well, the film is called Predator Badlands, so sold the title, fair enough. Clint Eastwood Westerns and the Hughes Brothers film, The Book of Eli's Influences. I have to say, I didn't see any of those influences. I saw a lot of transformers because there's a lot of big bashy, smashy crash,

quite a lot of some of the lesser Godzilla movies, again, just big CG monsters rumping around. There's a bit of the Star Wars canteener in there in the sort of space-age wildlife. There's a couple of straight lifts from aliens, including the pulse rifles. There is a yearning for that awe factor of the early Jurassic Park movies. You know, when you see something really big and then the sort of the comic cuteness of the Guardian's movies. But there is way, way, way too much of the kind of wobbly, heftless physicality or lack of it of, for example, the Assassin's Creed computer games. I mean, you just, there's endless amounts of characters leaping around in that CG way as if the laws of gravity and physical. physics don't bear any relation to what's going on on the screen,

you know, leaping up the sides of things. You think, no, that's not how it works. So, according to the director, he said every shot of the film required visual effects works, and boy, does it look like it. I mean, it really, really looks like it's been put together, you know, on a computer and it would be much better done through a console. I mean, it's not without a certain degree of just big, bashy, smashy, 12-A charm.

El Fanning is good. The guy who plays the predate, Demetrius Shuster Koloamatengi. I mean, they're good. They make a nice kind of odd couple up to a point. But just considering the amount of stuff that's been thrown at the screen, I did find it weirdly unengaging, not least because the one before,

the live action one before, Prey, that we really liked. The reason that worked was you actually were involved in the character. You know, you thought that's an interesting setup, and it's going somewhere that I hadn't expected. The end of this, incidentally, sets it up for a secret. call because surprise, surprise, the director has already said, well, I wanted the live action ones to be a triology, because that's just... Trilogy, yeah.

Just the way everything is now. So I thought it was kind of, I mean, I was unengaged by it, and it did feel a bit pointless, but, but, you know, not without some passing fun, like I said, the 12-A, I came out and one guy I know is a friend, he said, oh, that was much, much more exciting than I expected. And I went, do you think, I just thought it was a bit, hmm? But, yeah, Predator, he's the good guy. My guess is that they managed to kill the bad monster.

I haven't seen it. Can I tell you that, interestingly enough, your guess, it's not, no. I mean, yeah, no, you're in the wrong ballpark. I'm in the wrong ballpark. Yeah, let's not do it because it's not. Otherwise, people go, I mean, he's not like the film. He's going for waiting. You're using that voice.

I am using that voice. So we're going to take a break Unless you're a Vanguard Easter In which case you'll just Endlessly carry on forever Like hell Yes and then you're going to be reviewing what Well coming up in the rest of the show

I'm going to be reviewing Die My Love And the Coral But immediately next We're going to do the box office top ten And then An Enemy with our special guest Ronan Day Lewis And his dad Who turned up for the interview

Yeah So he's thinking he was just driving the car wasn't he? We'd include him just for the hell of it really. So all of that is on the way and the laughter lift. Did you mention that? I think you should have done. I slipped my mind. It's everyone's favour. It's on the way. Mark, our Black Friday and Cyber Monday stressful flashpoints that whip people into a spending frenzy or a good chance to get presents for Christmas at great prices. A bit of both, I suppose. Either way, if you're an online shop experiencing your first festive rush this year. You want Shopify in and around your business this November.

Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the US. From household names to entrepreneurs will be participating in their first Black Friday slash Cyber Monday this year. Shopify's marketing tools will help push your brand to the forefront of the chaos and helps them get the shop away. This Black Friday joined the thousands of new entrepreneurs hearing ka-ching for the first time with Shopify. Sign up for your free trial today at shopify.com.com.uk slash take.

That's Shopify.com. at UK slash take. Go to Shopify.com.com.at-U.K. slash take and make this Black Friday on to remember. Yeah, Mark, you know what? What, Simon? I'm getting a little tired of the production team. I mean, no offence or anything, but I wanted to brainstorm getting someone else to run the show. Well, with indeed sponsored jobs,

we could post and say we're looking for producers with three years of experience editing video and audio podcasts for a knowledgeable crowd that knows a thing or two about film. And have done slightly more than just edit a TikTok while soaking in the tub. Which has its uses. Spend more time interviewing candidates who tick all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results now with Indeed sponsored jobs. Take listeners will get a £100 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at Indeed,

dot com slash curmode mayo. Just go to Indeed.com slash curmode mayo right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash curmode mayo. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring. Do it the right way with Indeed. Okay, box office top 10. Here we go at number. Well, let's at number. Now streaming on Apple TV without the plus Down Cemetery Road Yeah I mean this isn't a film this is a TV series That's what you talked about last week

Because Ruth Wilson was on Someone who appears to be called JJ10270 This is everything that slow horses isn't But not in a good way Where slow horses is fresh, propulsive and witty Down Cemetery Road felt familiar, sluggish and laboured The characters were shallow and cliched especially the men. Does anyone really say, see what the club these days, or behave like

a total, like the Tom Goodman Hill character? I have to say, you're absolutely right. JJ, if I can call you that. And the story was contrived. I agree with Mark's point about the tonal shifts, but the humour isn't really funny, e.g. Adil Akhtar's slamming his hand into his curry. Please. It all falls far short of the high expectations set by slow horses. It's actually a good observation. The slamming the hand. into the curry gag, he's absolutely, because you wouldn't do that. No. No matter how, you just wouldn't.

So anyway, that's streaming on Apple TV. Number thrumpty nine relay, DB sites on our YouTube channel. This was the first movie I've seen in at least a decade that genuinely infuriated me with its biggest reversal twist. Okay, so when I reviewed it, I did say it starts doing the plot twist and there's a point in which you just go, no, I have lost faith. Okay. One, because the script trusts the audience intelligence and attention, and then all of a sudden it doesn't. And two, because everything that came before it was quite gripping, but the relationships actually felt authentic and not at all contrived. It struck a rare perfect balance of what to expect in a movie and not going too short or too far developing characters and their relationships. And then it throws it all out of the window with something that makes little sense on paper and even less on screen. Yes. So in other words, what you said.

Yeah, it's just, it's fun, it's strange because it is, you know, it's got some really interesting stuff and then you just got, okay, now I've lost faith in you. Number 11 is Shelby Oaks. Interesting because, I mean, number 11, but it was a film that cost very, very little money and was put together over a long period of time. And I think there is promise in terms of its, its ideas. I'd be interesting to see what he does next. Number 10, here 12 in America, one battle after another. The wombat laughter film, which is now, that's its sixth week. So that's probably its last week in the chat. Although, because we're coming up to awards season, I suppose it might get a second win as it starts to win things.

I mean, I really like it. So did you. Yeah, I think it will be one of the films of the year. Number nine, 24 in America, pets on a train. AKA Falcon Express, which is a French animated romp, which includes, guess what? Pets on a train. Number eight, but number three in Canada, chainsaw man, the moose. So when I was in Belfast with my friends, and I was talking to another one of my friends,

who was a young man who knows a lot about this stuff, he was saying, yeah, you really do need to know about Chainsaw Man in order to understand. Because actually there is really interesting stuff in Chainsaw Man. And I said that somebody had sent me this email saying, I'd be really interested to know what you think, because I think it's like this meets Kronenberg. And I just looked at it and thought, I do not have any idea what's going on at all. But second week, in the judge, I thought it would actually be gone in the second week. It's down to number eight now. So this will be the end of it. But yeah, it is, it's going to increasingly become an issue that film critics like me who aren't in this world are going to be confronted with films that they simply don't understand. And it is, we have to figure out what to do about that. Number seven is I swear. I don't mean figure out what to do about as in stop them being released. I mean figure out how we are going to respond to that. I swear I love. One of my films are the absolutely terrific. Number six here, number two in America, Blackphone, too. Not as good as black phone, but it has some moments in it. It's very sort of Nightmare and Almstreet Dream Warriors.

The UK number five is Gabby's Doll House, The Movie. Again, a movie that was absolutely not designed for me, but was designed for much younger people, but I have it on good authority from somebody that we both know that apparently the younger audience got exactly what they paid for. Number four, Springsteen, Deliver Me from Nowhere. Nominally, on paper, a film in which somebody sits in a room with a TASCAMTiac and has a nervous breakdown, but actually has done surprisingly well.

I mean, this is its second week. It topped the charts last week, and it seems to have found an audience, which is great, considering it is, as you said, not a rock biopic, but a film about depression. It's number seven in the States. Number three here, number five in America is Back to the Future, 40th Anniversary Reissue. I haven't heard of Back to the Future. I hear it's, you know, you know anything about it? It's doing okay. Regretting you is at number two.

And insert, pun of your choice involving the word regretting and screening of the film. It's the UK's, it's America's number one. Precisely so, because it is exactly that film from that writer and that director, and it's that film. And you go, okay, none of the people in this are behaving in the way that any human beings would behave. But, you know, it's that film. Number one is Bagonia. So here's some correspondence. And Keith Williams says lots of nice things about the podcast, first of all.

He says, I loved this film right up until five minutes from the end, and I left hating it. The director had woven a tense thriller throughout, only to undo it in the last minutes. If they'd ended this movie at the ambulance scene just before the end, it would have been perfect. But I cannot fathom why the obviously talented production team thought it was a good idea to take it in the direction they did. can you think of any other movie which you love only for the last few minutes to sour the whole experience and make you leave the film

with a foul taste in your mouth? Regards Keith Williams. Stan says both Emma Stone and Jesse Plemmas were astounding, as always. And the winding ways the narrative unfolds kept us and the entire cinema on our seats. There were laughs and gasps all the way through so I would encourage anyone also, Mr Mayo, to go and see it in a packed screening.

By the end, without spoiling, although Mark did spoil it. I did not spoil it. A certain sense of melancholia took me. The last images together with that song made me reflect on the shape of the world, where we're going as a species, all by me, and even the fleetingness of it all. Okay. I do believe that people could do with some more reflecting on the fact that in the end, we all share the same house, so we better learn how to get along and share this beautiful pale blue dot in peace and harmony.

this is my opinion this is in my opinion Lanthamos' best English language film to date and I can't wait to see when he cooks up next and that's from Stan Pazuzu

who is here on our patron so we love him very much Do you know what Pazuzu is Yes The Syrian Demon of the Southwest Wind and also the titular well the demon Not titular

The Demon in The Exorcist Yes But now is on our Patreon channel. Wow. So, Damien Karras cast him out of the body of Reagan McNeil just so that he could join our Patreon channel. And Pazuzu says, dare I say, this is accessible, Jorgos. It even has jokes. Joke jokes. And Phil Up North, also on Patreon. I quite enjoyed it right until the last 10 minutes, which left me exasperated. God forbid, we have a little ambiguity. Patrick O'Callaghan on our

YouTube and dozens of others. Mark should look at the logo on a tin of Lions Golden Syrup. So just explain why. First of all, explain why this came up. I will then mention this and then you can sound off. Okay. So I said the film is called begonia. It is named begonia because that is a Greek word which refers to the myth of bees coming out of the bodies of dead animals. And I said, which I guarantee you, nobody knew. Okay. So then Patrick and many others said Mark should look at the logo on a tin of lions golden syrup, which famously, of course, what a lovely thing the jar of golden syrup was, by the way, which is terrific. It has a quote. It says Abraham Lyle and Sons sugar refiners, picture of a dead lion with lots of bees coming out

of dead lion and it says, out of the strong came forth sweetness. That's the right. Yes. Now you can sound off. But at no point does it say borgonia. It doesn't say. What I said was none of you knew because nobody knows the Greek word begonia refers to that. I'm sorry, we have actually discussed the Tate and Lyle out of strength came forward. Yes, that. Three weeks ago, if somebody had said to you, begonia, you would have said, bless you. Yeah. Oh, I did a bunch of begonias, please.

Exactly. You can get those down the garage. I've got some begonias along with the anemones. Exactly. Thank you. That's very good. Thank you. That's the best thing about London City Airport is the smell of golden syrup from the

Lyle's factory, if it's still there. You come out like four o'clock in the morning, exhausted. A sugar rush. And you go, wow. It smells fantastic. Pour some syrup down my face. Baby. Yeah, that's a deaf-liber song, I think.

Correspondence at Kodromea.com back in a moment with... Well, the choral, die my love, and more importantly, anemone with our special guests. Ronan Day Lewis and his dad, Daniel, on the way. Yeah, Mark, you know what? What, Simon? I'm getting a little tired of the day. the production team. I mean, no offence or anything, but I wanted to brainstorm getting someone else to run the show. Well, with Indeed Sponsored Jobs, we could post and say we're

looking for producers with three years of experience editing video and audio podcasts for a knowledgeable crowd that knows a thing or two about film. And have done slightly more than just edit a TikTok while soaking in the tub. Which has its uses. Spend more time interviewing candidates who tick all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results now with Indeed Sponsored jobs. Take listeners will get a £100-pound sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash kermode Mayo. Just go to indeed.com slash curmode mayo right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash curmode mayo. Terms and conditions apply hiring. Do it the right way with Indeed.

Hey, Tate listeners, this is an advert from Better Help. Now, when it comes to wellness these days, don't you reckon it feels like there's advice for everything? Oh, you should do cold plunges. No, you should do gratitude journals. But how do you know what actually works specifically for you? You can almost get lost in these recommendations. It can feel like a struggle or even a stress. But talking to live therapists can get you personalised recommendations and help you break through the noise.

With over 5,000 therapists in the UK, BetterHelp is the world's last. largest online therapy platform. It's served over 5 million people globally, including me. And it's convenient too. You can join a session with a UK therapist at the click of a button. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. So talk it out with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash Kerr Mode. That's BetterH-E-L-P.com slash Kerrmode. So this week's guests are director Ronan Day Lewis and his dad. Ronan's debut feature is Anemone, a film about Ray Stoker, who is reunited with his brother Gem in the Yorkshire woods,

20 years after a traumatic event. I spoke to Ronan and his totally ordinary worker-day father, Daniel, about the film, and you'll hear that conversation after this clip. How did you? A winter. I mean, the isolation. How did I work? How did I manage without you?

It's not so over, Jeb. I'm gonna make it sound as if it... as if it, I won't pretend I don't think about it from time to time, but this is it, Jim, this is my life. Does it after me? And that is a clip from An Enemy. I'm delighted to say we've been joined by Sir Daniel Day Lewis and Ronan Day Lewis. We have the star. We have the co-writers and we have the director all on one sofa. Gentlemen, you're very welcome. How are you? Well, fine. We're a little bit groggy. But we're good. Thank you. Is that because of all the Rasmataz?

A little bit. Yeah, it's a little bit. Crazy few days. But yeah, happy to be on here. Thanks for having us. And to both of you. But Daniel, first, are you enjoying the Rasmataz? Because this is all a bit of the side of the craft that you're not 100% engaged with sometimes. Yeah, it's true. I mean, it has been lovely. We were in Athens, previous. in the festival there was a charity benefit screening of the film some very old friends of mine and that was lovely and no it's all been really really nice but yeah just definitely it's more talking that i don't than i'm normally used to yeah so random what's it like first time directing a movie what's it what do you make of all this hullabaloo yeah it's it's been really interesting because i feel like coming from more to painting background you don't have to do much

talking or about the work is kind of just all internal like in your head and so it's it's in a way actually been good to to have to think more deeply about how to articulate what what we just made together yeah we've met some really amazing people over the last few weeks and it's yeah no I mean it's been it's been great in an odd kind of a way you're sort of inventing it as you go along because very often you're talking about things that you wouldn't have thought to articulate with sort of one eye over your shoulder in a way, because already it's kind of, it feels like we're sort of separated from it. Yeah.

Ronan, you're the director, introduces to the story. Just tell us what we need to know as we contemplate going to the movies to watch this film on as big a screen as possible. Yeah, so it's anemone is about a man who's living in a sort of state of self-banishment in extremely isolated setting in the middle of nowhere. And at the outside of the story, his long. estranged brother who he hasn't seen in 20 years shows out mysteriously at his doorstep. And over the course of the next few days, we start to slowly unravel while they're stuck in this very

claustrophobic kind of brutal environment together, we start to slowly unravel the reasons for their estrangement and the kind of dark intertwined history that they share. Yeah, that's kind of a very reductive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it period? It is. Yeah, it's set in 1995. What's the year? What's the significance of 1995. We kind of waffled back and forth around a few years around there and we landed on 95 because first of all we were interested in in that period specifically but also also just the age of Ray and them and their involvement in Northern Ireland. Exactly. It was kind of dictated that so it was and then also we knew that we knew that it had to take place before the wide advent of cell phones for Ray's isolation to feel fully believable. So that was part of it. We thought we could

get away with, or I could get away with Ray being around 55. It's a bit of a stress of me. But, yeah, kind of works it out from that. Yeah, both brothers have been involved, have been serving in the armed forces during the early troubles. I was fascinated by that. So your brother is played by Sean Bean. And when he arrives, there's so much silence in this shed that you've been living in, which I have to say I imagined, Daniel, you had constructed yourself. That's what I, that's what I'd imagine. But I love the silence between the brothers. That relationship is quite extraordinary and the isolation is, is intriguing. Why have we got a background in the troubles? What were you trying to tell us there? It's funny because when we started to write it,

we really began with the idea of the two brothers. We didn't, there was no, nothing, nothing around that other than the estrangement. perhaps a 20-year estrangement between the two of them. And I can't even remember how it was that we came to feel that, you know, the soldiering part of it was going to be integral. But, you know, as we were developing or following these characters as they reveal themselves, Jem was somebody that's, you know, inspired by life a very old friend of mine. And I think that's kind of what led us to a certain extent towards.

And he'd had a full career in the British Army. Yeah, initially when we were trying to figure out why also Ray was living in that kind of state of self-banishment, I think we landed early on on the general idea that he'd been involved in a conflict of some kind and weren't sure exactly what it was going to be yet. And then my dad has long connections to Ireland. And I grew up there from seven to 13. So I had learned about the troubles a lot growing up.

And I think they had always loomed large in my imagination. and just in my head. I think we were kind of unconsciously drawn towards that and the idea of the kind of intersection of a personal and national guilt, I think became kind of an interesting theme that sort of naturally grew out of that. Initially, we did do in a very early draft,

we had a version that was where their experiences had been during the Falklands conflict, but we, yeah. Yeah, we explored that first for a bit, yeah. To ask you a bit about writing together, I think it was a unique experience. Going to see this film, which I love very much. I've never been aware of who wrote the screenplay as much as I was watching this film, because at the heart of the film, apart from the two brothers, we have a fractured relationship between a father and a son

in a movie that you know very well has been written by a father and a son. And that's a very, very interesting dynamic, but clearly you don't have a fractured relationship. What was it like with the intensity in the writing process, just working to you? Yeah, it was unlike any other experience of writing I'd had in the past. I'd written other scripts before my own where I had really gone in with an extremely intense, detailed outline, and the structure was kind of decided on to an extent before I went into it. But with this, it was kind of the opposite, where we went in with almost like the cipher of this character and this kind of very elemental scenario. And then we were really just following the feeling, the sort of strange feeling of those first 10 pages. And

also these characters kind of into the dark and we didn't know where it was taking us. There was a lot of improvisation that we did over the course of it that kind of started to reveal details about the characters and I guess the identities of Gem and Ray started to also kind of reveal themselves in opposition to each other in a really interesting way and their shared hash started to slowly become more clear and also this kind of mystical element I think was pretty clear actually in ways that I didn't understand yet in those first 10 pages. Once we had a sense of these two lads, we started to reach back towards their child and the sort of previous generation, their father having been a veteran of the Second World War and what their experience had been like with him coming back, obviously bringing with him, you know, his own difficulties from his experiences during that war and having grown up in a highly religious household where the threat of violence was never far away, not that those two things were connected. But then, you know, a period of time, we sort of felt that it was important that it had some

a period of time in a care home and so on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can I ask you about faith and religion as that's come up? Because it's very present throughout the film. In fact, right at the very beginning, we see Sean Bean's character on his knees praying and he has a tattoo on his back. Does it say only God forgives or something like that? What is the role of religion and faith in this story?

Well, certainly when it seemed clear to us that they'd grown up. in a household that was really at the center of which was a very severely practiced Christian faith. It felt right that Jem, for him, that became the foundation of his life and his faith has sustained him through all his experiences. And when we'd imagine the two brothers had been incredibly close, almost as twins might be, but Jem always had the strength between the two of them. Ray had a fracture in him and was always. sort of chasing his brother, needing to be close to his brother, trying to follow his brother's example. But for reasons that become clear during the story, at a given moment, Ray absolutely

abandoned that faith. And when we discover him, I think he's living a life with a rather savage form of paganism. Yeah, as you said, like these two kind of versions of faith or of spirituality, I think, are set up in opposition to each other early on. Like, the prayer is, is this kind of search for God in organized religion. And I think even though we see these moments of organized religion and of Christianity, like the actual spirituality of the film is more in the natural world, like the pagan and the more kind of pagan aspect of it that you were talking about, where we sort of see war and the idea of human bloodshed,

but from the perspective more of nature and of the wind and the sky. And so, yeah, it's, I think it definitely has a lot of Christian imagery in it, but it's also, it's not a Christian film. And at the same time, too, that Ray, you know, in his opposition to the faith is almost as strongly connected in a way that sometimes the effort that it takes to move away from something that has been instilled in you from such an early age. It's almost as if it's a sort of darker connection, but it's still there. And Ray, in an odd kind of a way, his life is being lived as an act of penitence. So, and that sort of is also a kind of connection to the early early.

Daniel, were you always going to play, Ray? Could you have played Jim? Yeah, no, it's a really good question. And yes, I think so. I mean, I was equally, because we were developing the characters through improvisation, obviously, you know, our investment was in, is in each of them equally, which included Nesser and Brian as well. I mean, we're very sort of attached to them, too. But I was, yeah, I was fascinated by Gem as he seemed to reveal himself and I don't know how it's settled with me at a certain moment. We never discussed it. I think Roe just always assumed that I would be playing Ray, but it wasn't clear to me. Ronan, can I ask you, how do you direct Daniel Day Lewis?

I think, honestly, the key aspect is like preparation as with any creative relationship like that. I think the longer a time you have to settle into that dynamic and kind of have these important conversations about the character and as much. detail as possible before you get on set, I think the more once you get on set, you have a shorthand. And so we had the great benefit of writing the script together over the course of like four years that a lot of those really, really detailed decisions and conversations were made over that period of time. I don't think I fully realized as we were writing it, how much we were actually in prep at that point in a way. So it was like pre-directed, really.

In a way, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then it was like on set, it's more granular decisions like the rhythms of the scenes and like how how he moves through the space you know we didn't rehearse a ton but each evening before the next day we would just like we would go into the set together and with ben ford's men the chivalographer yeah and just well fit out of me we didn't rehearse but we just got just allowed ourselves to get a set so i think you're going to put the light yeah that day um and uh and then sean and i sean luckily you know we'd had a chance to spend a bit of time together and just felt at ease with the idea of just launching into it day by day not so trying to figure it out.

Just on the four-year writing process, just if I can get this out, if I've got the chronology right, you started just before COVID. But I just wonder whether lockdown, however you spent lockdown, did that get in the way of this or did it actually accentuate and concentrate the process? I think it was actually, it was good. In the early moments of talking about it, we thought, well, if we try to do this, we'll only, right when we're in the same room together. Yeah.

And we held to that. And I think that was also because, I think part of the reason we made that decision was because the beginning of the script was done when we were in that, when we were stuck in one plate together in a good, like in a good way. It's not a remote, you know, different drums in the house. It's like yelling to each other in like her case. Yeah. I'd like to ask you just about one particular scene, and that's the hailstorm.

Ronan, you've already mentioned the weather and the elements. It reminded me of, I mean, Paul Thomas Anderson is someone, Daniel, who you've obviously worked with a lot, the kind of Toad Frogstorm in Magnolia is like the most incredibly intense moment. But that hailstorm that you've got is like the most dangerous moment. It's like run for cover. This thing could kill you. How did that happen? How did you get that to work? Yeah. When we were working on the script, I just felt like, I mean, there's a lot of silence, but then there's also these moments of long bursts of talking. And it felt like the talking, it felt like there's this frailty to the words, to these characters.

attempts to sort of express themselves that eventually the words would run out and something in the external environment had to kind of take the place of words at a certain point and really express all this this anguish. And so yeah, I just knew there had to be a storm of some kind, especially because of the seeds of the weather that have been planted early on. And the hail, I think probably because of the mixture of danger, but then also the sublime and the beauty of a hailstorm felt important. I started looking at this book, the book of miracles, which was this some 16th century illuminated manuscript. It was a mixture of Old Testament, kind of folkloric images of massive hailstorms and blood rain and these images that felt biblical but also kind of

pagan. It was stunning. And final question to you, Daniel, it is, first of all, it's very, very good to have you back. But are you done for a while? For a while, probably, yes. And that's sort of, I've always sort of been on that cycle that's remained a bit of a mystery to myself of the love and investment in the work. And and the need to just work at something else for a while. I don't like to keep idle, but I like to feel that I can re-engage with the world for a spell. And yeah, so I have no idea what the future holds right now. But certainly the experience of doing this with Ronan, it reminded us, I think,

with a number of people that we work with, the very experienced people who helped us make this, that it really did feel like going back to a way of doing things that I remember very fondly when I was younger where a small group of people with goodwill were all attempting to do the same thing at the same time and it was just a lovely experience. Daniel and Ronan, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for talking to us.

Thank you very much. Daniel Daylois is son Ronan, who's the director of Anemone and it was, I have to say that the, that wasn't filmed. I could see them when we were doing the interview. And you have interviewed them as well. You did an on stage of them. But the thing, so the thing that doesn't come over there is, first of all, I was, I did a lot of work on it just because I'm thinking, this might be the last time Daniel Day Lewis appears on this podcast.

However, you know, we might do it for another 10 years. He only does promo if he's got a family member. That's how it seems. So get it right, you know, don't, you know, don't mess that up. And then, and he famously doesn't enjoy doing interviews. He said, he said something like, you know, it's God's little joke. Yeah. Anyway, on him.

But when the line came up and they're sitting in the same hotel room, they were both smiling. And Daniel Daly's particularly was beaming. I think you can hear it in his voice, actually. And the other thing that just helps, I think, just before you do the, do your review is that when the night i guess the sweetest part of it was whenever ronan was talking daniel was beaming and it was like it's a this really is a father-son thing that's going on here it's a proper movie yeah uh which which will be reviewed in just a second but it was a dad working with his son and being thrilled to work with his son as any dad as any parent would be

thrilled to work with one of their kids that's what that's what that interview and as you said ironic that it is a film about a fractured father-son relationship full of angst and bitterness and you go, which is clearly not playing out in the real world. So who knows when Daniel DeLos will do another movie and even when he does it, whether he'll do any proper. But anyway, it was good to have him on the show. It was lovely interview.

So just quick recap, so this is psychological drama by feature first time, a better known as a painter, Ronan Day Lewis. The tagline for the movie is All Is Not Forgiven. which I think tells you a lot about what is to come. The title refers to a plant, which is a form of wildflower, which kind of ties the past to the present and memories in terms of the thematics of the film. Co-written by Ronan and his father, Daniel DeLewis,

who also co-stars marking his return to the screen after sort of retiring, although he said he wasn't really retiring, but he kind of said he and Michael Canger get together a group of people saying that. And not retired together. Yeah, since Phantom Thread. and he told me and he told you that one of the main incentives for the project

was that he got to spend time with Ronan one thing he said to me which was funny was they said they wrote in the same room I said how did it work he said well he can type and I can't okay so you know straight forward anyway so I bet he could learn to type if he wanted yeah no and make shoes while he's doing it so it's 1995 Sean Bean is Jim Stoker who is a religious man as you quite right he said we meet him praying and he has a tattoo, which I think you're right, says only God forgives. He is with

Samantha Morton's Nessa. Together they are bringing up Brian, who is struggling. And now the time has come to go and get the brother, Ray, Daniel Day Lewis, to step up and accept his responsibilities. Gem and Ray are completely estranged. They both serve together in the armed forces during the troubles. They've been estranged for decades. Ray is now living this hermit-like existence in an almost fairy tale, but not in a good sense. Cabin in the woods, undesirous of human company, self-imposed banishment. So, and picks up his bag, treks into the woods. I think there's an uncertainty at the beginning about, well, he'll even find the thing because he's having to work with, you know, with GPS. And the two are estranged by the traumas of life, the traumas of

family, the traumas of war, what Ronan in that brilliant interview called the intersection of personal and national guilt, which I think is a very good phrase, summing all this up. And then in that cabin the respective demons that haunt their pasts come out to play and at one point there is this kind of extraordinary scene of the of the hailstones which is i mean i thought exactly the same thing that you did it reminded me of the plague of frogs from magnolia there is something biblical about it and there is something wider going on in the film which is to do with the biblical element and the pagan element the element which is out in nature and the fact that it takes its name from a plant and the fact that we get these overhead shots of the trees, almost moving like lungs.

There is somehow one of the characters has gone into that world, whilst another character is still very tied up with a religious upbringing that was clearly part of their youth. And then we learn about their father, who was also religious, but also deeply conflicted and also apparently deeply hard work. So a significant part of the drama plays out in the confines of this cabin. And I do think that Ronan Day Lewis, who clearly has talent as a director, I mean, the film is very well directed. I mean, for a first feature, it's very confident, is very well directed, puts you right there in that cabin, you feel the claustrophobia.

You can hear people breathing, you can hear them, you know, it is, and particularly since you know that at least one of these characters is like a caged animal, there is like that kind of, you know, sometimes you can smell violence in the air, and it's just a question of how long is it going to take before it all comes out. And there is a sort of strange fairy tale element to it. there is something existential about that cabin. It is in the middle of nowhere. So you are somewhere where anything could happen. And there's a kind of slightly visionary element going on around the edges that everything is a little bit hyper-reel or sort of unreal. In the same way that, I mean, Phantom Thread had that fairy tale element

that she goes out and picks the mushrooms and then the thing happens. And that's all a bit, Brothers Grimm. I think when you have a cast of this calibre, and bear in mind, you know, Samantha Morton is, I think, the greatest actors of all time. Daniel Day Lewis, one of the most, you know, um, uh, storied and, uh, accolated actors of all time. Sean Bean, who, you know, incredible filmography.

One of the things that, um, Ronan Day Lewis knows as a director is to stay out of their way when they're doing the job. And I think that considering the confines of a lot of the, of the drama, it's very good that you don't feel that the, that the performances are being intruded upon. You feel that they're being, even when they're sort of, you see them in closer, but you never feel like they're getting them in the fair. You do feel like those are very organic performances. I mean, they're very good actors, but it is possible to make very good actors give very bad performances in the wrong circumstances. You mentioned the visuals.

I do think plaudits are due to Bobby Krillitz, who is the composer, and Stefanigan, who's the sound designer. Because a lot of what's going on is to do with sound. And I know you've picked up on this, you know, before, the thing, the wind. the sound of the wind, even like that, it's going on in the background and it's telling you, you're out, you're out in the woods and you're out in something strange is happening. That underlying tension between the pagan and the Christian, I think, is important. I mean, Daniel Day Lewis has said this thing in interviews that, you know, obviously he has played dramas that have seen the troubles from the other side. And he said, well, this is interesting because this is, this is seeing it from the side that I haven't played before. and this speaks to the other side of that.

And there is a key speech in it in which you sort of hear the root, one of the kind of key reasons why all this has happened. And you go, okay, fine, that yes, this is about another side of the conflict. I do think, however, that despite the fact they said it's specific,

it is set when it is set, 95, because it's at this particular time in history. The thing also has a very sort of archetypal sort of timeless, as I say, out in the woods, it could kind, I mean, you actually said at one point, is it a period movie? Because it's, it could be 200 years ago. You'd make the same film if it was set in 17. And there we go. Because it's kind of Canaan Abel. It's kind of brother against brother. It's father against son. It's family against family.

Damaged by war, damaged by family. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that the smartest thing about it is that it understands all of that. That it appears to be made with all of that in its DNA. Now, when I, I watched it, I didn't know anything about it other than I knew who'd made it, and I knew the title, which I thought, because I'm an idiot, anemone, an enemy. You know, I get those two words confused. So I even learned during the course of the drama that the title referred to a plant. I'm afraid that's how dumb I was. But I did find myself for the whole course of the drama completely in that world. And I think that it's a very powerful piece. And I think that the things that it's dealing with, although they have, have that specificity are much more fundamental than that. I think it is about father, son, brother, brother, you know, that kind of thing. And I'm a sucker for modern fairy tales. I'm a sucker for the, and the moment that the hails came, it was like, okay, we are watching

the same film, aren't we? Yeah. What did you think? I thought, I agree with all of that. The only thing that jazz is, and this is slightly bizarre, is the opening title sequence has a kind of a painted, animated section. So drawings of the troubles? Yeah, drawings of the troubles, which led me, I thought, oh, is this going to be a...

It's going to be a film about the troubles in Ireland. Yes, and it's going to be very, very black and white, and it's going to be saying, these were the good people and these were the bad people. And I thought, I'm disappointed if that's what it's going. And it isn't. It's not that film at all. So the title sequence, which it looks great, but is completely misleading. So of kids' drawings, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah. Kids drawing about bad people and good people, and this is the way we're going to see it in this film. But actually, the film is so much not, it's so much more subtle and clever than that title secrets. But I enjoyed it enormously. Yeah. And it is very confidently directed, isn't it? Yes. And, but you never ever take your eyes off Daniel Taylor.

He just has, he is one of those people. He is, but can I find the fight for Sean. Oh, Sean Bean is fantastic as well. If Sean Bean wasn't as good an actor as he is, he would, I mean, you stick them in the room together, you have to be up to, you know, you have to be up to punching weight to do that. And Sean Bean is a really smart guy. Did you think he enjoyed working with Daniel? I imagine he did. I imagine they had a good, I imagine, I bet it was pretty intense on set. Yeah. I mean, I, I, funny, I spoke to him afterwards. I've done this interview. And he caused in person, Sean Bean is the most down to earth person, imaginable. like literally he's just like all right

you know that's it you know how did you find the character well it turned up it was there you know it's that kind of thing yeah do you think it'll be a hit film it's a small release because it's an art movie and I think that it will do it will do well with a with a smaller audience

he's never going to be a mainstream I mean you know yeah come and see two come and see two brothers who haven't spoken for 20 years have a row in a cabin in the woods yeah the story about the priest was an interesting one yeah which is which is and actually that's one thing which I didn't mention there is some real black comedy or brown comedy.

Yes. It's all coming flooding back to me now, as the priest said in the film. Anemone, when you've seen it, let us know, correspondence at codemeter.com adds in a minute, Mark. First, let's cast all those sad thoughts away and step into our laughter lift with a sense of freedom and hilarity. If we must. I have to say. I have to say. I mean, hi, Mark. I have to say, I've been very jealous of your gang of three exploits.

Yes. So I've formed a band of my own. Uh-huh. We're called 1,023 megabytes, but we haven't quite got a gig yet. Hey! Hey! I got into a little trouble with, you know who, over the weekend. She found out I replaced our bed with a trampoline.

She hit the roof. And this is that. Actually, it's quite high quality today. Quite high quality today. To make things up to her, I took her to London. And I like to think of myself as something of a big cat expert. We crept up to the tiger enclosure and we saw one sleeping. That's that there.

That one is a Himalayan tiger, I whispered. How do you know that? Ask the good lady, Saramacistair indoors. I said, because Himalayan right there. Yeah, you see, if you'd said Himalayan, well, it's Himalayan right there. Yeah, yeah, Himalayan. Do you want to have another run? Okay, yeah.

Go on. The Good Lady, Sarammercissisternd Do you. I said, because Himalayan right there. See, there are two alternatives ways. I just thought I give balance to the force by doing Himalayan and Himalayan. You did a bit of a Derry London there, didn't you? Yeah, that's a whole other issue. That one's a Himalayan tiger.

Let's call the whole thing off. But he's not even the funniest Jared. Anyway. Oh, that's a deep cut. That's a deep cut. Very, very deep cut. Some people would have got that. Yeah.

But not many. No. What's going on in our next bit? The Coral and Die My Love. After this. Get you and your crew to the big shows with Go Transit. Go connects to all the main concert venues like TD Coliseum in Hamilton and Scotia Bank Arena in Toronto. And Go makes it affordable with special e-ticket fairs.

A one-day weekend pass offers unlimited travel across the network on any weekend day or holiday. for just $10, and a weekday group pass offers the same weekday travel flexibility from $30 for two people and up to $60 for $5. Buy yours at go-transit.com slash tickets. Get no frills delivered. Shop the same in-store prices online and enjoy unlimited delivery with PC Express Pass. Get your first year for $2.50 a month. Learn more at pceexpress.ca. Here's an email from another Mark, and this is about far left in Switzerland.

Okay. Context? Well, I think this came up. It's an update. Is it? Yeah. Okay. Here's just a quick update about this Zurich's left-wing cred. I think I might have implied that everyone in Switzerland is basically... my grandmother was Swiss yes okay and she spoke a very weird kind of thing which everyone's most exactly

from SRF the Swiss National Broadcaster Zurich's political landscape is dominated by left-leaning parties and the city has a history of both mainstream left-wing politics and a more militant extremist left-wing scene the city's left-wing government is a result of its urban left-leaning population

which contrast with the right-leaning politics of smaller Swiss towns. In the 1920s, the Socialist International's headquarters were established in Zurich, and the Swiss Socialist Youth Movement played a leading role in its formation. You did you get this on film 2016, did you? Lenin was also there just before he died. What that proves? I have no idea. He went there and died.

Mark says, I could go on, but I have to attend a committee meeting. Comrade. Fundoo revolutionaries, we are. Anyway, Mark, thank you very much. Well, I mean, it's just that that's not Switzerland's reputation, though, is it really? No. As a cabal of active socialism. And Andy Sheath in Cuckfield and West Sussex, Dear Knit One, further to knitting-friendly screenings, which we're talking about.

Yes. I, too, unknowingly booked for such an event last June at the depot cinema in downtown Lewis, East Sussex. It was part of their knit flicks, get it, series. and the film shown was the Ballad of Wallace Island. Oh, which is lovely. Further value, interest and insight was added by having a pre-show chat with a local professional knitter who had been commissioned to make one of the warm woolly jumpers worn by Tim Key

in the actual film. Excellent. A fine initiative, if a bit clicky, by an excellent cinema and cafe restaurant miniplex. You would imagine, I mean, if you're going to be a knitting screening, then it's going to be clicky. Yeah, it is. We did it.

The closest we've got to that is when we, had knitting sawney on one of our shows. We did a live show with knitting sawney, didn't we? He came on and we talked to him, but I don't think he clicked back in the day. Do you know that Knit and Sorni and Sanjubascar

started out in a comedy duo called? It's a very clever title. Very good. It's called they were Secret Asians. Secret Asians, which is very good. And you're all coming to dinner very soon, which is a really good. Yes. Oh yeah, we

Yeah, which is fantastic. We should do some secret filming for Patreon people. This is because Mark and the Good Lady Professor and Sanjee for Mira are coming for dinner. So we should film it and we should stream it. I've been doing little bits of film for the Patreon page. I forget. Backstage at the Dodge Brothers, I've done that. And then you've seen a whole extra member isn't even in the band.

Yeah. Well, I think that's because you've been joined by like a ghostly figure from the part. It might be Lonnie Donegan. Is it? I think it's probably who he is. It's a ghost of Lonnie Donaghan. It is. Okay.

He's turned up in your band. He's not playing that song, right? It's in A. Here's a movie review then. The choral, which is highly anticipated British drama, anticipated not least because it once again reunites Alan Bennett and writer Alan Bennett and director Nicholas Heitner, who together have previously collaborated on Madness of King George, did pretty well.

History Boys, wasn't crazy about the film. Lady in the Van, very, very good. Now this, although this is an original screenplay, not an adaptation. Starry cast includes Raif Dunkewley, Ralph Fines, Roger Allum, Mark Addy and Simon Russell Beale. So, you know, no wonder it's being released right in the middle of a wards corridor. So set in 1916, fictional Yorkshire Town of Ramsden, Eve of Conscription, young men are being sent away to die in the trenches or shipped home with horrific injuries

and horrific memories of battle. The Coral Society, which is headed up by Roger Allen and Mark Addie, are suffering because the male ranks have been completely depleted, meaning they have to start to recruit the kind of undesirables that in the past they would have turned their noses up. They have to go to the pub to find if there's anyone in the pub who can sing. And it doesn't matter who they are. If they can sing, the same goes for the women too,

who by necessity is not now just pillars of the community, but people of, in verticomers, loose reputation needs must, and if they can sing they're in. As for the choir master, the only real candidate is Ray finds his Dr. Guthrie. who is a great musician, but has spent, of his own accord, a large amount of years in Germany and therefore is sneered upon by everybody else because country is obviously now at war with Germany and keeps getting asked, why were you in Germany? He says, because the Germans appreciate art and culture and music and have produced pretty much every great composer. So yes, I did like being

in Germany. So he takes up the baton in front of this rag-tag choir and a makeshift orchestra in which possibly for the first time because revolution is in the air, everyone is on an equal footing. Here's a clip. This is Mr Horner. He will be accompanying you for today's auditions. Thank you.

I thought we're doing the auditions. Not for me, you haven't. And that goes for everybody. We have a committee. No exceptions. I haven't anything prepared. Scales will do. Scales.

Oz. It was your choice. Not too late, Amma. Dear Lord and Father of Mankind. A bit of nice singing there, suddenly rudely interrupted by the clip coming to an end. So, in order to avoid bricks being thrown through the window, they agree not to do a German composer's work, but they will do Elgar. Okay, Elgar.

Can't get more. Solid. Solid. Elgar. Will Elgar, who is played with imperious pomposity by Simon Russell Beale, will he agree to allow these amateurs to perform his dream of Gerontius? Will the choir and the, in inverted commas, orchestra, get their act together for one rousing performance, or will ruptures within the mill town just tear everything apart?

So the slogan on the poster is, they were divided by war. He united them in song. So you kind of will go in with a certain assumption about the way. this is going to go, in the same ways, you know, will the predator actually kill the beast and bring the thing back home? I think we know that that's going to happen. Spoilery, spoilery, spoilery. So, I mean, there have been, there have been quite a few successful British movies about

plucky northern grit with rebellious politics and musical themes kind of, you know, intertwined with it. I mean, you and I loved Brastoff, right? Brastoff is fantastic. Full Monty, it was Oscar. I mean, I think that Brastoff should have been an Oscar contender. I really do. But the full Monty was sort of celebrated, you know, far and wide.

This is sort of in that kind of area, although I have to say, I don't think it's on the same level. I mean, the message of the film, which is very much rooted in the screenplay, is, and this is a good message, art is not an indulgence, right? Art is a necessity, and at times of crisis, we need art and we need singing and transcendence. more than ever. And the script also sort of takes swipes at the class structure, the idea of, you know, working class is being used for cannon fodder in the First World War. And this is a town in which you have the mill owner and the person that works at the mill suddenly together in the same choir and everything is kind of equal. All those things I kind of, I think they're, you know, I'm broadly on board with them. And there's also a thing about the way in which jingoism is used to

encourage people to sign up. Because, you know, let's let's go and let's go and do the the great thing, which of course turns out to be not the great things. There's also a kind of weirdly, there's an element of sexual politics, which is kind of strange, which is that there is this very unjudgmental earthiness about the way in which sex is portrayed as a transactional commodity, which is something that can be given in kindness or something that can be raunchy or something that can be sneered at or something that can be begged for in times of crisis. And there are some scenes that are kind of, they're odd because.

because they sort of seem to sit slightly to one side of the coziness of the drama in which, you know, I mean, the point is there's a quiet desperation at work here. This is the young men who are about to go off and face terrible circumstances and very likely death. And in those circumstances, the politics of transactional sect become a sort of slightly different thing. And there are those scenes which seem to sit at a slight odds to the rest of the film, which is a film about the choir, again to pull itself together to, you know, to do the performance, which you know is going to happen. Beyond that, it's kind of, it's fairly by numbers fair. It sort of falls into what you broadly described as goes down well with a cup of tea and a biscuit on a Wednesday afternoon misses. Ray finds his good course as the kind of quietly grieving musician who's, he's kind of

distrusted as much for his suspected sexuality as for his German proclivities and the fact that he's a, you know, an artist at all. And that bone temple he's got. Oh, yeah, the bone temple, of course. No wonder he'd be discussed. No, of course, that has put them off. You've got Roger Allum, who I always think is great, nice line between, you know, the pompous and the wounded, because he's the mill owner, but also he's got this kind of vulnerability. And then he got Simon Russell Bill camping it up as Elgar.

Elgar is portrayed as a vain preening nincompoop, floating his way around in these newly acquired academic robes, and behaving like a complete snot-nose. idiot. Honestly, what I could think of, I wonder what Ken Russell would have made of this. Because firstly, I mean, that isn't, as far as I understand, that isn't Elgar. And secondly, I mean, one colleague of mine, I'm not making this up. One colleague of mine actually walked out. But because of the way Elgar was portrayed. And, yeah, it's a, I mean, the Elgar caricature is, it will, you know, it will divide people.

I mean, I think there are some, there are some very nice performances. Amara, Craigie's Mary is very good as this kind of Sally Allie figure who everybody thinks that they understand because she's in the Salvation Army but they don't sort of fully John Singer Sergeant has been cited as inspiration for the visuals

and I mean the fact is it does look beautiful that area looks absolutely beautiful I mean screen Yorkshire should be absolutely cocker hoop because it goes it is beautiful but I did I kind of left it with the feeling of yeah it was fine I thought the narrative bought bit off more than it could chew, I thought there was some things in it that were kind of interestingly, oddly radical,

but sort of were odds with the general coziness of the rest of it. So it was more, it was more fragments of a tune than a soaring melody, really. Oh, very good. Do that one again? It was more fragments. So I do it as if I'm making it up. Yeah. It was more fragments of a tune than a soaring melody. Beautiful. Thank you. Excellent. That's why I get paid the big bucks. Very, very good. Okay. And that is cool. The choral. Okay. And we've got some other discussions about choral films. We have. We've taken two. In take two. Anyway, we've just got time for a quick, what's on?

Okay. Hi, Simon and Mark. This is Ollie from the 20th century society. We're campaigning to save the amazing point cinema in Milton Keynes and would love your listeners to get involved and show their support. Open 40 years ago in 1985, the point is a modern architectural icon, a 70-foot-high pyramid of bright red steel and mirrored glass. It was the first multiplex cinema anywhere in the world outside the United States. The bad news is the point closed as a cinema in 2015 and is now threatened with demolition.

We think this is a unique part of our national heritage that should be preserved. And so we're calling on the government to designate it as a listed building. Let us know what you think and hop on to our website to sign the petition. Oli, thank you very much indeed. If you are in government now, could you get that sorted? Thanks very much. Okay. That'd be Lisa Nandy, I would imagine.

It is true that that building is amazing. I've never been in it, but I have been round it because it is, and it does look exactly like a pyramid. That just, so that wasn't the cinema that was referred to in the, because he said it's been closed since 2015, that was referred to in the email about the most expensive cinema trip in the world, in which Milton Keynes was more expensive than the BFI IMAX. No. That's another cinema.

That's another one. In Milton Keynes. But, Ollie, thank you. Yeah, brilliant. If you got something to shout about, that's vaguely, to do with cinema or film. Correspondence at kermanofair.com. Just record a little

voice note. That'll be very lovely and Ollie recorded it very well. The acoustics were good. He was like the right distance from the microphone. It was fairly animated. And he wasn't dressed up

as a character from a fantasy film. Which always helps just a little bit. Thank you very much indeed for that. Okay, so die my love, find my love, fairground attraction. Goodbye, my love. There we go. This is the new film from Lynn Ramsey,

the brilliant Scottish director behind Ratcatcher, Morven Caller. We need to talk about Kevin. You were never really here. One of my favorite directors, as you will know, combines the visual poetry of Robert Bresson with the kind of down-to-earth grit of Ken Loach and the, you know, the ecstasy of pure cinema. So also renowned for getting career best performances out of cast. You think of Samantha Morton in Morven Calle. You think of Tilda Swinton and Kevin. You think of Wacking Phoenix in you were never really here. So this is based on a 2012 novel bite.

Now, Ariana Havits, I think I'm saying that correctly, but I may not be, which was Matate Amor in original Spanish. This moves the action from France to America. I'm saying all this as if I only know it because I've read it because I haven't read the book. Script is by Lynn Ramsey, Ender Walsh, Alice Birch. The film is co-produced by Martin Scorsese. Okay.

And apparently it was Scorsese who brought the book to Jennifer Lawrence's company, who We're called Excellent Cadaver. Really? Yeah. That's a... Not mother. No, not mother, exclamation mark small M. And then she brought it to Lynn Ramsey.

So, Lynn Ramsey, Robert Pattinson, are Grace and Jackson. A young couple, she's a writer. She's meant to be working a book. He's working. They decamp from New York to rural Montana, where they move into this now vacant home of Jackson's deceased uncle. The home is pretty... It's in the middle of nowhere.

pretty run down. They don't seem to mind. They are chaotically free spirits. They do lots of dancing and drinking and an awful lot of having sex and an awful lot of intoxication and they're very, very sort of, you know, they're full of fire. That is all changed, at least to some extent, by the arrival of a child and the inevitable need for them to tame some of their wilder ways. And it's worth pointing out, I think, that...

I know, we'll come back to that. Okay, fine, that's not funny. So, let's hear a clip. Here is a clip from Die My Love. So do you think you'll have another one? Yeah, pregnant now. Picking up twins. What happened to your hands? Oh, you should see the wall.

Yeah, I am. I have two kids, and two is a lot, if I'm being honest. Seems like it. Babies, though. Babies are hard. I don't think anybody. He talks about that enough. It's all anyone talks about.

It changes you. I think I nearly lost my mind for the first six months. When do you think you'll be getting it back? Good joke. So, as you probably read in a lot of interviews, so Jennifer Lawrence was pregnant during the production and has talked about, I think because what then happens is

that her mental health starts to deteriorate, And as it does, Jackson finds other outlets for his physical needs. She keeps finding packets of condoms in the, you know, the glove compartment, as we would call it, of a car. And their lives sort of start to fall apart. Now, apparently, when Jennifer Lawrence brought the novel to Lynn Ramsey, Ramsey was uncertain about it because she didn't want to do another project about postpartum depression because she thought that people will go, oh, well, you did that with we need to talk about Kevin, because so much of we need to talk about Kevin is about the till.

the Swinton character as opposed to the Kevin character. It's all about what is the mother imposing on the child because the mother is sort of seeing the child as the embodiment of evil, but it's being sort of projected. Apparently, Lynne Ramsey was persuaded by being persuaded that it was a, quote, bonkers crazy love story. And to some extent, it is a bonkers crazy love story. She's also described it as a comedy. And I think it is a comedy in the same way that Punch Drunk Love is a violent comedy about love or a violent love story. You know, it is a bonkers crazy love story. But with teetering on the on the brink of madness and the film opens with this kind of apocalyptic image of a world in flames and it's an image to which it will return actually kind of reminded me I was watching that in terms of the you know the reign of hail of stones coming in an anemone and during the course of the drama the protagonists do get dragged to hell and back and it also reminded me of the fact that the divine comedy you know it's the it's the danty thing about comedy meaning a number of different things So this is shot on 35 by Seamus McGarvey, who shot Kevin.

I read somewhere that the format and the ratio, which is because it's a kind of more square ratio, was influenced by Polansky. I'm not sure that that's the main thing. The most important thing is that the way in which the film is framed is although we're out in this kind of amazing landscape, you feel trapped. You kind of feel trapped.

again, another kind of comparison here to anemone, you feel trapped in this house. And a lot of the time when the characters leave the house they go out of there, you kind of feel like the sort of gasping for air. And you, that sort of lends the idea that the relationship

is trapping them and that the world is closing in around this character who's literally kind of gasping for air. There is madness in their relationship. There is madness in the world. You have Sissy SpaceX who is brilliant as the matriarch who's sleep walks with a loaded gun, suggesting that even the sort of saner elements of the drama,

everything's got like a hair trigger away from tragedy. Then you have these other characters. You have Nick Naltier in Lakeith Stanfield, Keith Sanfield, who came on the show, both in smaller roles, but smaller roles that play very, very important parts in the jigsaw of the whole picture of this sort of state of mind. So the whole film becomes like an external dramatization of an internal state of mind, of somebody going crazy because of the situation that they're in. I mean, it's really interesting.

I think all the performances are good. It is Jennifer Lawrence's movie. I mean, she dominates the screen. It is a really out there performance. It is really genuinely fearless, although the character is fearful. I mean, outrageous and crazy and out of control, but also clearly fearful. And there's one scene in which she's apparently got her act together. We heard a little snippet of it there in that thing about, you know,

I was losing my mind really when you're going to get it back. And then things start to unravel again. I have to say that one scene is an absolute bravura masterclass in, there's a moment in it when she's looking and she's smiling. And it's a sort of Stepford wife's smile and you know that the smile is about to crack and you know that it's nothing is right. You know that thing when she's wearing so nice dress and everything seems fine and everything. You know that nothing is right.

I found the film exhausting I absolutely came out at the other end of it feeling like I've been put through the ringer and I know that you might not see that as a positive thing no it doesn't sound like a great thing but it's because the film grabs you and you feel like you're I mean the linear the narrative is non-linear it's kind of fragmented

it's like jumbled shards of a traumatic memory again this does I think compare it to anemone anemone amen yeah anemone that one that one I can't imagine anyone else doing this material as well I love Lynn Ramsey anyway Jennifer Lawrence's performance is I mean like it's really kind of apparently she did say

I want to really go for it and boy does she go She knows how to go for it Oh yeah no oh yeah you've seen that And I thought it was I just think you know Thank heaven that we have filmmakers like this Who are willing to make the kind of movie that is full on experiential you know you are you are not going to come out of this in anything other than a state of utter raggedness.

But before you see it again, you might want to leave it a bit. Do you think? I mean, I could have gone straight back in again, except that I needed to just lie down. Okay, so when you've seen it, let us know what you think, correspondence at codemoe.com. That is the end of take one. This has been a Sony music end of temper production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh and Heather, the producer was Jim, although he's not here. He's in a Spanish prison for some reason. I don't think he's doing time.

I think he's just acting. The redactor was Simon Poole. If you're not following the pod already, please do so wherever you get your podcasts, which includes our YouTube channel. The Christmas show is a fabulous thing and awaiting the tip of the purchase of your tickets. You go to www.fane.com.comboid-maio. Come and join us on Patreon because there, there's so many lovely people on Patreon. Yeah.

Just drop in and say hi and take part in one of the bar. Behind the scenes, Dodge Brothers videos. Yeah. And also there's our strange chat rooms where you can... Members only. Members only. Over 21. Mark, what is your film of the week?

Die my love, okay. You don't leave me anymore. No, no, that's not true. Oh, just go. Okay, because it might be the choral. No, die my love. Mark, what is your film of the week? Die my love. Die my love.

But I also really like anemone. Anemone. No, anemone. Should die my love be, how should it be said? Should it be... Die, my love. So the love is dying. Yeah, it's an instruction.

Die, my love. Right. That doesn't sound very nice. nice, then. It's not meant to be nice. Oh, okay. Send us an email, correspondence at covenomere.com will be along fairly shortly. There's a take-to, there's a Patreon, there's

so much stuff to get involved. Never use a preposition to end a sentence. It works. With full stop. Thank you.