Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Daniel Kaluuya, The Kitchen, The End Where We Star From & The Holdovers

Episode Date: January 19, 2024

This week, the one and only Daniel Kaluuya is in the studio and ready to chat with Mark and Simon about his dystopian directorial debut – co-directed with his longtime friend and collaborator Kibwe Tavares - ‘The Kitchen’, which sees a funeral-service worker looking for a way out of the chaotic housing block of the title.   Mark also offers up his critical perspective on the film, as well as reviewing ‘The End Where We Start From’, a Jodie Comer-starring drama about a woman trying to find her way home with her newborn as an environmental crisis submerges London in floodwaters; and ‘The Holdovers’, Alexander Payne’s latest, which sees Paul Giamatti play a curmudgeonly teacher at a New England school, who remains on campus during Christmas break to babysit a handful of students only to form an unlikely bond with a brainy but damaged troublemaker and the school’s head cook.   Time Codes (relevant only for the Vanguard - who are also ad-free!):  09:50 The End We Start From review  21:13 Box Office Top 10  38:28 Daniel Kaluuya interview  57:32 The Kitchen review  01:00:32 The Laughter Lift   01:03:15 The Holdovers review  01:09:43 What’s On You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo   EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee!  A Sony Music Entertainment production.     Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts    To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail]  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Music Mr. should know that before you actually join us, Mark performs a clap. And that is to coordinate, I imagine, the visuals. Yes, it's. And the sound. Two-carre set up. But you always have a very authoritative clap. Sometimes a clap can be a little bit feeble. It'd be like a handshake, you know. If you have a feeble

handshake, the most feeble of whichever hand was Lloyd Cole from Lloyd Cole in the commotion. Really? Not as feeble as Woody Allen. Oh, yeah, famously feeble handshake. Really? Yeah. Is that because I imagine people like royals and so on, they just have it like because they just otherwise they do royals shake your hand. I thought royal don't they just do a smile and wave. You bet royals. I haven't. Have you shaken hand with a royal with Charles. Charles, Charlie Charles. Charlie Charles when he was Prince, I interviewed him a couple of times once. I'm radio one and once for the tele.

Did he shake your hand? I imagine so, yes. I imagine so. I just always think that when you, you know, I didn't shake the Queen's hand though. No, because she's the Queen or Prince William. So just Charles is the other. Just Charles, okay.

And firm hand shake? You can't remember? Yes, I know, I can't remember. I remember, as I think I said, so Lloyd Cole, the most feeble, she made it on the most ferocious. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Like bone crunching. Wow. Great. Which, partly, I wasn't, I wasn't ready for it. You know, if you're going to shake hands with Arnold Schwarzenegger, you're kind of ready for it. I wasn't ready for it with she made it. Anyway. Do you have a firm handshake? I do, yeah. And I value a firm handshake. My father used to teach, we used to have like contests,

you have to shake hands and then squeeze as hard as you can, and then if you couldn't carry on anymore, you'd just say, okay, I give up. I have sometimes had that thing but you shake hands with somebody and they really crush it. And you go, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, I wasn't there. I know it's, it's, I didn't think it was any point in that at all.

Anyway, so you are a firm person in general. You're a firm, you have a firm handshake and an authoritative handshake that says, I have a handshake that says, hello, you know, I'm big man, I'm big man, I'm on the side, which is a reference to. Yeah. Okay. So I'll get we're jumping ahead.

But our guest on the show today is Daniel Caluvia, which is very exciting. Who's not been on the show before, but I met him once, well, I met, I was, came out of a screening in the Soho Hotel in London's show busy West End, and I came up the stairs and Daniel Collier was in the foyer, and he looked at me and I looked at him and he went, big man, come out.

And I took that as the greatest compliment. I mean, he might, you know, I do. That's how I choose to take it. Okay. I think that's, I think that's very good. So that's the extent of the communication. That's pretty much it. The very same hotel where I got in the lift and then didn't let Willem DeFoe in. Oh, really? Yes, for the poor things. But didn't you try and stop the door? Yes, it was. And then the door's just shut, but he looked extremely annoyed. And you know that if Willem DeFos looks extremely annoyed, it's quite scary. Anyway, I thought he might chop me up with one of his scalpoles, which is a reference to Paul things. Anyway, apart from Daniel Kulu, you're talking about the kitchen, which is not a movie he's

in, but is a movie that he's produced and co-directed. Yes. What else are we doing? Well, since we, that's backwards on the way that he's in my script. So you say, what are we going to do? Well, this is script, this piece of paper. So we're going to be reviewing the end we start from, which is a story about somebody leaving flooded London. The Holdovers, which is this awards-golded business week comedy. And the kitchen. Oh, the kitchen.

With our special guest. Oh, that's Daniel. Daniel, big man, Kelly. business week comedy and the kitchen with our special guest. Oh, that's Daniel Bigman, Collier. Also, with our extra takes, landing on alongside this one. And at least one's through the next. And extra 90 minutes of that.

Well, it says 90 minutes. I don't we might run out after 60. You never know. We can watch List and we can not let's take it or leave it. You decide, which is our word of mouth on a podcast feature, which is today talking about Simon Bates versus the post. Simon Bates versus the post office.

The issue has had absolutely no press at all. You might have missed it. I'm not heard of it. There are no implications. No one in Parliament is talking about it. I was in a studio yesterday and Mr. Abothnott himself was in the studio next door. Who's Mr. Abothnott himself was in the studio in the studio next door. Who's Mr. Abothnott? He's the MP who took up the case.

We took up the case. Of whom they say in the thing, who new atori MP could be so nice. Plot smash where you have to guess which three films I've smashed together. One frame back inspired by Daniel Collier's The Kitchen, films directed by actors, you can access this via Apple Podcast or head to extratakes.com. Extratakes. If you have a non-fruit related device and if you are already a Vanguard Easter, as always,

we salute you appropriately and with the right emphasis. Thank you. Stephen Cook emails from Halifax, Nova Scotia. Dear Sid and James, greetings from a long time, take, listener and YouTube video viewer. Vanguard Easter and as yet unsuccessful emailer. As soon as you read the letter about lines that sound great in a movie, but feel off

once you think about them, I immediately thought of a line in the Magnum Opus Sucker Punch by Simon's favorite slow-mo otur Zack Snyder. It's like, yeah, you and Zack are good friends, don't you? Well, I did an interview with him and it was perfectly reasonable. He was like, you were very good friends with John Grisham. When Scott Glenn tells his Sailor Moon-esque castmates, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.

This bumper sticker worthy bit of dialogue has wrinkled me ever since. Certainly the members of the January the 6th mob in DC thought they were standing for something. When in fact they'd fallen for the nobriest, sensical line of bluster of the former Chito in chief. Lots of people stand for something that is utter horse hockey to use a term I picked up from Mash, the TV series. That's a great phrase. Once you examine it with any sense of intelligence, logical empathy, but this saying is the sort of slogan-earing you'd expect from a subtle as a flying mallet cinema visionary like Zack's Nide.

I think that's a version of the GK Chesterton quote, which is, when people choose to not believe in God, they don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything. Oh, so I think that's the Snyider version of that. That would make sense. Stephen then continues Stephen Cook. On the subject of old-fashioned faces, which is something which also came up with, Joel Edgerton does look like he could have walked out of a 1940s film noir. Thank you. Thank you. I could imagine appearing from the shadows of Anthony Mann's team-end, for example. Another old-fashioned face that came to mind is Barry Kiegan, who every time I see him reminds me that someone needs to cast him in a Frankie Howard biopic as soon as possible. So I can finally shake that uncanny resemblance from my psyche.

That's not a compliment, particularly. Anyway, actually, now you say that. Okay, that's it. That has to happen now. Anyway, actually, now you say that. Okay, that's it. That has to happen now. Happy New Year from the Commonwealth, hello to Jason, and the lovely and talented production team, Tenguiditon, can down with the 1936 Olympic Nazis and their Latter-day disciples.

I did a two-way in comic relief, like a double-hander with Frankie Howard, still on YouTube, and that was it. It was very, very unusual. Was it funny? It is funny. Partly, it was supposed to be me saying, here's something funny, which someone is doing for coming with it,

and then Frankie would do. Here's something funny. But it got to him and he went, no, misses and all that. And everyone laughed. And that took up almost the entire time that we had, and there was time to wrap. This is like, I don't know whether you and I were talking about Flough Freeman recently, who is a great sort of hero of yours and you're involved in something. Yes, there's a radio for a program called Great Lives and they asked me to do it and I chose

Alan Freeman. And you were saying that Fluff once did a link between one piece of... Yeah, he was coming out of the Rolling Stone. It was a chart rundown, of course. And he was coming out of the Rolling Stones and going into the Beatles. It was like a mid-60s chart rundown. And it was epic track, into epic track. And his link was... And...

I just think that's genius. It's just... and there we are. And I'm reliably informed, used to kind of, as a training example of, you don't have to say a lot. Yeah, yeah. The lesson that we never learned. And that's very true. Chris Movie-Bore from Exeter.

Love Story's famous quote, Love Means Never Having To Say Your Story. Which is actually how this all began as it is. Being fundamentally inaccurate. Other examples, for us, Gump, life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're going to get. Well, it depends the chocolates, really. If you buy a box of Maltesers, you know exactly what you're going to get. Aliens famous tagline in space, no one can hear you scream. In fact, any screaming which occurs on a space ship rather than in the vacuuming space should be clearly audible as he's demonstrated in the film several times. Oh, I think that's a big hit.

Yeah, I'm just picking. Really, American Beauty, remember those posters that said, today is the first day of the rest of your life. Well, that's true of every day except one the day you die. No, it's still true then, actually, it's the first and last day of the rest of your life. So Chris, movie, but I don't think you get away with that aliens one because I still think that works Well, so the other scump is fair enough

But the other thing with life is like a box of chocolates It's not just like if you get a box of more teases, you know what you're gonna get It's somebody said at the time life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get Yes, you do you open the box of chocolates. There's a map of the chocolates. They're always is. Yeah, they're always is And it's hope we kind of got what it meant, you know Anyway, so if you want to get in touch, correspondence, well, we can't be the mayor.com. That's right. What's out this week? What should we be interested in?

So the end we start from, which is, it's described interestingly. It's described as a survival film or a survival thriller, which is a kind of, it's one of those things, which is quite hard to explain the genre. It's directed by Mahalia Bello, adapted from Megan Hunters' novel of the same name, which I hadn't read. Have you read the End of the Stuff from a K? And it's adapted by screenwriter Alice Birch,

who I think is absolutely fabulous, who wrote Lady Macbeth, the mothering Sunday, and then TV shows like normal people. So she knows exactly what she's doing, yes. So the story is, it stars Jodie Comer, who you interviewed for the last duel? Yes, that's right, alongside Ridley Scott. One of his 16 movies that he was working on at the time. He's almost finished gladiator too now, ready. We meet her at the beginning, she's a pregnant woman whose water's break just as the rising flood waters of her London home

start to break into the home. So London, in the words of the clash song, you know, London is drowning and I live by the river. So it's right at the beginning, this kind of, the connection is made her water's break and then the water's break into the home. She and her partner play by Joel Frye, Fleeter, parents' home outside of London, where they think it's safe, but because of the flooding, society is started to break down, and nothing is particularly safe.

And the worst in situations, bringing out the worst in people, the couple are separated, she ends up heading north, teeming up with another mother, played by Katherine Waterston, who did you interview her for? Yes. It's basically a collection of friends of yours.

That's right. She was very nice. She was great. She was great. Yeah. And Jill Frye was great in the 101 Dalmatians, where he made one. Absolutely. So it is a bunch of people who Simon is very – he's a clip.

I mean, first he got together. I had this breakdown, I guess. Yeah, my parents had just died to both very suddenly, very close together and I became terrified of dust. I mean, irrationally, completely overwhelmed by the fear of dying. Doesn't sound irrational. Yeah, and emotionally, of course, emotionally, I mean, complete sense, logically. I mean, at that time, logically, the world, it's often a real threat and a guy can get

off bed. He was so kind. So you can see from that, it's kind of got a very low key feel to it. And this is why I'm saying it's a survivalist drama. And you could describe it as, it's not apocalyptic, but, you know, London floods. It's dystopian, I suppose. It's been described as being a story about people having the courage to love and having the courage to bring new life into the world in the face of tragedy. And obviously there's a lot of the set up in the setting that is kind of evocative of films

like Children of Men, which I was thought was very powerful. I interviewed the director, and indeed the writer, and I was asking about, would you call it a dystopian film. And my Hayley Bell says, she didn't want, she didn't want it to feel like it was put into the future. She wanted to feel like it was today, like it was relevant to today because I'm obviously in a climate change is happening. And these things are all very contemporary. I think it does feel like that. I think that the idea of places flooding is obviously very, very contemporary.

The idea of people being forced to leave their homes, being forced to move from one area to other becoming refugees or forced, all that sort of stuff. It actually ties into the kitchen, which we'll be discussing later. Yes, weirdly, these two films being really, and actually they also both have a similarly kind

of slightly understated feeling about them. I also think, on a more intimate level, it's about how the arrival of a baby completely upends your world. Your world is one thing, and then there's no coincidence between the fact that her water's breaking and the water's breaking at the beginning. And so it's almost like the water and the flooding kind of becomes a character in the film. It's a very, you know, what's the way of,

what's the first line of it? The earthquake was a small one. Well, weirdly enough, that phrase, it's like the apocalypse was a quiet one. It's very much like that. And I think it's quite possibly too low key for some audiences. But I think Jody Cumber's performance is terrific.

I thought the design was just fantastic in everything. Yes, and you're all sitting there going, are you gonna do something bad or are you just gonna continue being, and the answer is she's just gonna continue being great. And I thought it was a very confident piece of direction from Haley Ebello. It's got a very melancholic feel to it.

There's also a terrific score by Anna Meradith. I love Anna Meradith, and I think her work is just great. And if you can find the music on streaming services, oh, of course, if you listen to scholar radio, that's a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, If you can find the music on streaming services, oh, of course, if you listen to scholar-ady-out, that's a very good thing. And if you like the tone of the music, I think you will absolutely love the tone of the film because it's atmospheric, subdued,

melancholic, contemplative, it's a film that, I mean, a lot of stuff happens in it, and there is London floods. But I think in the end end it works on a much more sort of personal level that it is a personal story about somebody's world being turned upside down and them submerging and re-emerging. And it's funny, it's also an example of one of the things it's a film that it sticks with you. I've been thinking about it quite a lot since I saw it. Anyway, the end we start from, the only problem with that title is,

I find it grammatically challenging. What would you like to think? The end from which we start. That's a terrible title. I know, it's a terrible title. Yeah, but it's the end we start from. I thought you were going to say also, the problem with my first sentence was, it should have been, it was a small earthquake. No, no, no, I think the way you said it was more... Yes, it was smaller. ...the way it is. But the end we start from should be the end from...

No, no, it shouldn't. Of course it should be the end we start from because it's... But it's deliberately... I know. ...one of those titles that deliberately trips you up. Sounds good, though. I should also point out that the cast also includes Bendic, come about your mark strong. So I mean, it's like it's...

You know, it's not short on good performances. That's very, also on the subject of people being turfed out of their own place, have finally caught up with killers of the foul moon, which is all about the Osage being removed from their land by being disinherited from their land by Leonardo DiCaprio turning up and marrying them. If you ever propose this, say no, just have to say no. Later in this very podcast, what are you going to be reviewing? I'm going to be reviewing The Holdovers, which is the new film by Alexander Payne and we're going to be talking about the kitchen with its co-director, Daniel Collaluuya.

Now, just before the break, wise, wise words, in which Mark and I in alternating weeks, I think, yes, the artist and terrible song during the break. Okay, here are your words. Shadows tapping at your window, ghostly voices whisper, will you come and play? Not for all the tea in China or the corn and carolina, never, never, ever. They're running after you, babe. Yeah, I know that. Yeah. I've chosen it precisely, meticulously, cleverly. Oh, that's a good one. Okay. Anyway, the answer after this. the answer after this. Well, hello there. Simon and Mark here to tell you about Indeed. Yes, Indeed is driven by the search for better, but when it comes to hiring, the best way

to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search match with Indeed. If you need to hire, then you need Indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors, according to Indeed Data. And if you're busy watching all of this week's film recommendations and you have no time, then you can use Indeed for scheduling, screening and messaging so you can connect with candidates faster. But indeed doesn't just help you hire faster, 75% of employers claim indeed to live as the highest quality matches compared to other online job sites.

Leveraging over 140 million qualifications and preferences every day, indeed, matching engine is constantly learning from your preferences, so the more you use indeed, the better it gets like us. Why not join the more than 3.5 million businesses worldwide that use indeed to hire great talent fast? Listeners of this show will get a 100-pound sponsor job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash curmode mayo. That's indeed.com slash curmode mayo terms and conditions apply. Need to hire?

You need indeed. Indeed. Mark, who would you say is our biggest fan? Well, we do always have the LTLs Com slash, comod, mayo, terms and conditions apply, need to hire. You need indeed indeed. Mark, who would you say is our biggest fan? Well, we do always have the LTLs in the long term listeners who email, they tweet the Instagram us, but I don't know, hard pick one. If I gave you a clue, you might get it. If you think of a sound that a cow makes, move.

Oh, I see, movey, very funny. Anyway, guess what they are supporting us right in, not just now, not just now, but right into 2024. So while we're here, do you want to update the fans with the very latest on Moobie? Yes, so they have Priscilla, which is a new film by Sophia Coppola,

which is in cinemas from the first of January. This is telling the story of Priscilla Presley, very interesting, particularly in the wake of Basil Ehrman's Elvis, this is a complete different take on the story. And how to have sex is streaming on Mubi in the UK from 29th of December reviewed that and when it came out. I thought it was really powerful one of the best films of the year. You can try Mubi free for 30 days at Mubi.com slash Com slash Kermit a Moe for a whole month of great cinema for free. So the answer to this week's wise wise words. Here we go. Um, the words were shadows tap you at your window, ghostly voices whisper, will you come and play? Not for all the tea in China, all the corn and Caroline, it never, never ever, ever they're running after you babe. Yeah, it's ringing a bell, but I can't think why. The next lines are run for the sun, little one.

You're an outlaw once again. It's the land of change. People live. The land of make be Lee. A Bucks Fizz classic. Can I just add something as well, which is on the subject of people who are also in the end, we start from Gina McKee and

Shipway Appendic come a batch producer as well. So you know how he's project. You're going to have to have a very good reason for not going into that film. Ian and Edimbra, Hi Tab A and slot B, very long term listener here, started when I was a projectionist. Wow, there aren't any anymore. There are. Hello Dave Norris. Say hello to Dave Norris now. Hello Dave, all right, thank you. Further to this week's take to Mark, must have missed the news a week ago that the Dave a clown cried, so we were talking about it. Oh, yeah.

So just remind us about it. Go ahead, so the Dave a clown cried is the film that was directed by Jerry Lewis and then shelved. And it's a story in which he plays a guy who is a disenchanted clown, but it's set during the Holocaust. And it was bits of it was seen by... He showed bits of it over the years to some people, including Harry Shira, who said it was wrong in every single way possible. So, Mr. News a week ago, that the day the clown

cried is being screened this year. At some point Jerry Lewis gave it to the Library of Congress. No, he gave it to the Library of Congress with the instruction that it could be watched in 2024. This news has been welcomed by old Hollywood and comedy nerds alike with whom the film has achieved a legendary status. I am both and have been wanting to see it ever since hearing about it, near weekly, on Gilbert Godfrey's excellent podcast, RIP, says, dedicated old Hollywood, Gilbert Godfrey's amazing colossal podcast. Okay, come on.

Right, can I just read you? Perhaps if it ever does get a wide-scale release, it could be screened after a live take to an enthusiastic audience. Okay, so I have to read you this. Library of Congress disputes report that Jerry Lewis' controversial day, the clown cried, will screen in June. Blah, blah, blah.

Yeah, representative for the Library of Congress confirmed in D.Y. that no public screenings are planned. As the archive, and I believe I said this, does not possess a complete cut of the film. It wasn't finished. Jerry Lewis's son has said there isn't a complete... Yeah, there isn't. There isn't.

I mean, I know for a fact there absolutely isn't because it's, you know, the footage donated by Lewis contains several unedited scenes. These portions will be made available to scholars for research later this year. So, then he would be hoping for it? Yes, exactly. And this was from a story... This is just from a new story this week, in fact. Anyone hoping to watch the infamous film in its entirety will have to manage their expectations. Yes. So, as I said before,

Jerry Lewis would show reels of it to people who he was friends with. And there was a Guardian article in which they pretty much tracked down everyone who'd seen it. And the most famous one was Harry Shira, who said, you can't believe the ways in which it was wrong. Box of his top 10 this week at number 83. I mean, we're going a long way down. Well, here, this is Freaks versus the Rye. I mean, this is actually the context in which the day the clown cried came up because I was talking about that and saying that, you know, whenever you're dealing with the third Reich,

there is always a question about, is there a certain way in which you can deal with it? You know, are you able to do something which is satirical or funny? Or, you know, and actually the problem for me with Freaks versus the Reich, which has some interesting ideas in it, is that I don't think it ever properly reconciled those two elements. I mean, it's got a very interesting score, and there are bits of, you know, carnival-esque visuals, because it's about this kind of circus troop

who resemble the characters from the Wizard of Oz taking on the Reich and they have superpowers. But it's, at over two hours long, it leaves you a lot of room to go, I'm not sure this works. Number 54, the disappearance of sheer height. So two things I want to say, firstly, on the Istand corrected,

I realized all the way through the review, I think I said it twice. I said, narrated by Dakota Fanning. I didn't mean Dakota Fanning, I meant Dakota Johnson. Completely, literally completely different person, but both called Dakota. So thank you to everybody on the YouTube channel

who went, you don't mean Dakota Fanning, you mean Dakota Johnson, Kermot, Eudiot. However, there was somebody who said, it's pronounced Sherry. No, it's not. It's all the way through the film. It's pronounced Sher, and then some people who know her and seem to know it's not quite well, call her Sherry.

But it is all the way through the documentary, her name is pronounced Cher, Height, and some people call her Sherry. Number 11 here, number seven in the state's night swim. Haven't seen it, and I'm not likely to now, because it seems to be sort of just putling around in the shallows. Yes.

In the shallows. No, no, I got it first time. Number 10. Tell me the first line from it. You see, I pitched you a softball. Yes. Okay. Number 10 here.

Number 18 states, the boys in the boat. So this is the George Clooney film about there was an email earlier on that referenced the 1936 Berlin Olympics. Of course. It's a very solidly done drama. It's not particularly remarkable, but the rowing scenes are weirdly gripping, and I know nothing about rowing.

Well, here's some people who do. Pears Herman, dear Swiepen skull. Second time emailer, the first about the fab of Bernarkey cinema in New Zealand with sofas for chairs, they've got to mention and long term listener if 2010 counts as long. Sofas for chairs, jumpers for goldposts. Thank you. Pierre says, my wife Dominique always pleased to have mentioned and I went to see the boys in the boat on the opening day last Friday. We both very much agree with Mark's assessment,

good solid movie that is not going to win any awards or change the world, but a really enjoyable way to spend 123 minutes. And the first film to really show how hard rowers really were. What made it much more special for us? Two things. We are both rowers, and I sold some of our rowing club equipment, Year Boat Club in Norwich, to the production company for use in this film. In early 2022 2022 we sold them our old Cedarwood 8, which I imagine means it's a boat made out of Cedarwood for 8 for hours, as I'm guessing. Amazingly the type of wood was really important for them as was the fact that it was made in Germany, as they were looking to replicate the German crewboat as closely as possible.

Looking at the film, it certainly looked like our old boat polished and repainted, of course, though I can't be sure. I gave a very muted, code-breaking cheer when we first saw it. This incredible attention to detail shows a level of care taken by the filmmakers that I did not expect and probably was not necessary, but it has meant that the club members have a special attachment to this film. We sold them some other boats and some oars as well, and the 1750 showing its cinema city on the 18th is almost sold out, as so many members of the Norwich Rowan Club are now going.

So three cheers for George Clooney, Grant Hezlov and their company. They have brought us the best rowing film for ages and given our club a great boost as well. And Mark, my brother Paul sends his best, a Manchester University mate, apparently. Fantastic. Thank you very much. Also, Scott Thomas says,

my wife and I went to a previous screening of the boys in the boat last week. It was a particular interest to us as our children all row. Oh, wow. It had scenes filmed at mostly boat club, five minutes from our house, and my wife had read and enjoyed the non-fiction book it's based on. Typically for director George Clooney it's an unashamedly old-fashioned

sporting underdog story with a plot and characters as straight ahead as the rowing races it depicts, but also with the same excitement on the way and gripping finish. Joel Edgerton's Hang Dog coaches the standout in the series of solid and unsholy but effective performances. We enjoyed it a lot but I had thought I would probably recommend it as a Sunday afternoon movie at home for people without a special interest in the subject matter, though Mark's experience of it makes me wonder if that doesn't do it justice. Anyway, so the rowers like this movie. Yeah, I mean, that doesn't surprise me because it, it, it, it definitely, as I said,

those rowing scenes are very powerful and it quite often is the case that scenes are powerful because you do them properly. And you certainly get the sense of the effort and the energy and the, you know, as I said, when I reviewed it, it's not like skipping over the water like a stone, it's like slogging through water in a very painful fashion. Number nine is Wish.

Oh, which is the Disney film, which reminds you how much you liked all the Disney films that they're referencing and how little this has any of the magic. Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom is number 8. Please let this be finished now, because I don't think anybody other than Jason Mamoah is enjoying it anymore. The By and the Haren is at number 7. So I still haven't seen the dubbed version, but I've been told by many people that the dub is really good,

as we said, Rob Pattinson does the, you know, what one of the main voices. But certainly in the subtitle version, I thought it was lovely, Johecy, she scores terrific. And it's funny, some people have been a bit lukewarm about it, some people haven't quite connected with it, but I think it's a proper Miyazaki passion project. Priscilla is at number six.

Very interesting film that reminded me of things like Rebecca, it's like a kind of twisted fairy tale about a young woman, very young woman, being trapped in this strange castle, which is Graceland, in which there's a lot of beauty in the beast going on. And it's a very interesting companion piece to Elvis, which I love very much. And obviously, as an Elvis fan,

I've said this before, it's not comfortable watching, but then if you know the Elvis story, you know, it isn't comfortable. Here's my favorite email, probably of the show. Okay, today, from Camilla, but not that one. Right. The listener who's put off Priscilla by the people near him in the cinema chatting about

Graceland's carpets and the legal age of consent in West Germany put me in mind of a screening of Louis Miles damage at the NFT in 1992. As was expected in a tale about sexual obsession, there was a good deal of furious jumping throughout the movie. But that has now entered the lexicon, hasn't it? Which is a poor thing, reference we'll get to in just a moment. And doing the furious jumping,

Juliet Benosh and Jeremy Irons, they were just really going at it in the bathroom. Perhaps one of the most erotic scenes, when one half of the elderly couple behind me said, we've got those taps. LAUGHTER we've got those taps. I couldn't hear me saying that. The carpets a bit right. Down with the usual and up with an independence animal.

Thanks, Camilla. And number five is the beekeeper. Can I just say very quickly that always reminds me of the fact that, as was always pointed out, in the first Emmanuel film, which came out in the early 70s and it was like, oh, you know, it's so erotic, and it's so classy. Couples can go and see it, blah, blah, blah. And there's a famous scene in Emmanuel

when she has sex on an aeroplane in everyone's eyes, such an exciting scene. The reason it's exciting isn't the sex. It's the fact they're on an aeroplane. It's like it's the 1970s, it's like, they want a plane. Anyway, sorry. I don't remember that scene. The beekeeper is the beekeeper. A number two in a man.

Jason Steatham. He's the beekeeper. He keeps bees. And then somebody does something bad to somebody really likes. So then he has to sort out the hive. And every now and then the hive produces a worker bee at joins up and as to overturn the queen. I mean, it's

preposterous touch, but I really enjoy it. One life is at number four, which is very good and very moving. We've had a couple of emails from people saying when they get to the end of it, the audience have been silenced by it. Anyone but you is number three and number four in the state. Well, the new rule is that any film by Will Glock who had the enormous cuts part to come on the show after we had kicked Peter Rabbit all around town, metaphorically, not literally, gets a pass here. Number two is Poor Things.

So let me just do some emails and then you can talk. Sam Mullinger, amateur state side critic. Yeah, I went to see Paul things with my girlfriend recently and as a Yorgos Lentimos fan, I had a pretty good idea of what I was getting into. While my girlfriend was unfamiliar with him, one of our first dates was watching

Panos Cosmatosses Mandy together. So she's usually up for something a little off the beaten path. I am happy to report that we both loved it. It might be my favorite film of 2023. Emma Stone was absolutely fantastic as Bella and made the off the wall premise of an infant's brain in an adult's body feel completely believable. Which is no mean feat. Now that's right. It was dreamy, but the kind of wild, anxious and strange dream that you have after eating something that's disagreed with you. Yes, so I'm editing as I go along here.

Elton starts this email by saying, heritage listener, take two corresponded, as yet undertaken for take one, but then I was responsible for the longest email ever on Andor and the Iliad. Excruciatingly inflicted on Simon last Christmas when he had a very bad sore throat. I was responsible for the longest email ever on Andor and the Iliad. Excruciatingly inflicted on Simon last Christmas when he had a very bad sore throat. I'm still very sorry. Anyway, Elton, I have to say, I have edited this as well. Okay. Because here is the key point. In his poetics, Aristotle is concerned to explain, so this is still about poor things, is concerned to explain and justify the power of drama.

Quote, from childhood he explains, people have a natural thing for imitation. Children learn by copying. Lathamos rather brilliantly represents this process through Bella, God's creation, and holds a mirror up to it. As Ramy Yusuf suggested in Simon's Gently Revealing interview. Though I'd put it rather more strongly, watching the film, I felt that my head, like Bella's, had been prized open, and my brain scooped out for a new one. I learned to see again what film can do, how social relationships form, and what they mean, what female empowerment looks like.

Hello to Jason, up with blue dressed feminists and down with all Duncan Wederburns. Duncan Wederburn? Yes. Who's obviously reference to the film and their ilk. Now, before you say something here, Peter Kirby says, I went to see poor things based mostly on your film of the week recommendation. At first, it was a strange, if interesting setup, which turned very quickly into an appalling film about a girl with a child's mind being horribly abused.

Whilst one can recognize some of the filmography and the well-shot scenes, I cannot understand how in this day and age, the idea of a person with juvenile mental age who has no concept of consent, who is so abused and manipulated can be praised. I think that a reflection on your portrayal of this film needs consideration that the abuse portrayed needs to be publicly acknowledged and condemned. And I just want to mention, just in that vein,

Alice Thompson, who is writing in the Times yesterday, also says, the misogynistic violence and repetitive sex is supposed to be tempered by, this is a reference to him, it's the artlessness and innocence and the way she upends social niceties. Halfway through the brothel scenes I was done, I closed my eyes and dosed my whole body.

Everyone will hail it as a triumph and it'll have a cult following just not me. It didn't feel like a feminist rewriting of a great novel more a male fantasy about a ravishing nymphomaniac dressed up as a modern classic. Well, thank you for both those emails. And those are points that have been made, as you just pointed out from that elsewhere as well.

You could argue this in terms of the actual narrative, narrative says at one point, she's learning however many words it is a day and her development is massively accelerated. So who Bella is at the beginning when we very first meet her and who she is two weeks later in the plot is completely different people. At the, at a, by about very early on, she's doing this thing about using quite complicated language and talking about, you know, so the whole point about it is that, and it's, this is explicitly said in the film, her brain is accelerating really fast. She's not growing up at anything, anything like normal time. So although at the very beginning, the idea is that it's childish brain in adult body, very quickly, it isn't that anymore.

And what she's then, and I think actually in your interview, Emma Stone did try and talk about this because you said, I think you raised that issue about it, but when you first see her, she's like a kind of, what did you say, fully functioning baby? Yes, grown up baby. But that's very quickly not the case. What happens after that in terms of her kind of approach to the world isn't to do with her being young, isn't to do with her being a baby or a child because she's reading great works of philosophy and she's out thinking everyone around and she's being incredibly at what it is is that she is a fully functioning intelligent adult who hasn't been formed in her ideas by in her philosophy by ideas of guilt and shape. Now, the plot very specifically says this and I would point out once again, it's a fantastical science fiction plot that is inspired by Frankenstein. In the real world, these things don't happen. But the plot itself very, very clearly explains that she is not a child for, you know, after the very, very early stage of the film.

I think on a more complicated level, if you so, you know, we take that's what the film actually says. Are people looking at it and seeing her as a childish woman? And I don't think that's what she's portraying. As I said, I think what she is portraying is a fully functioning intelligent adult who has not been schooled in the ways of shame and misogyny that, you know, that have in the society around her.

And not a male fantasy about erasishing them for maniac. No. I don't think that is what it is at all. Okay. However, I would say, obviously, you can interpret it as you wish and I'm not for one minute dismissing those ideas because it's not like those ideas didn't cross my mind, but is that what's going on? I've seen it a few times now. I'm absolutely certain that isn't what's going on, but I do understand people feeling uncomfortable. I think that the fundamental premise of the uncomfortableness is not what you think it is. I think it's a misreading of the film.

And on the other hand, at number one, Wonka. And number three in America, just a moment, because we've discussed a great length, what an incredible hit Wonka is. Yes, absolutely. And perhaps it says something about the times that we are in, that the best-selling film of the moment is a lively family fantasy based on, you know, one of the great, you know, children's fiction characters.

Because when things are bad, when things are grim, people don't want that in the cinema. And I think, actually, incidentally, that would be the challenge that, for example, a film The End, we start from, although I think it is ultimately very positive, it's a hard sell. It's a hard sell to say to somebody right now with everything that's going on. Do you want to go and see a film about a mother fleeing flooded London because society has fallen apart? Okay, so coming up in just a moment, our special guest is Daniel Kaluya, two baffters, one Oscar, a golden globe, two sags, and so on.

Yeah, but who hasn't got that? Daniel Kaluya will be on his way in just a moment. MUSIC Samina Marke, with another message from our good friends, NordVPN. They are a great punch to those NordVPN folks. Yeah, indeed. And they're back with another handy tip for good friends at NordVPN. They are a great bunch, those NordVPN folks. They are indeed, and they're back with another handy tip for making your hectic life.

That bit easier. Yes, because if you're thinking of booking a holiday this January, then NordVPN can help you save money. Yes, you can save money on booking flights, hotels, car rentals with NordVPN by switching your devices virtual location. You can purchase flights, hotels, car rentals, and more via another country where it may be cheaper.

It's also the perfect travel tool when you're abroad because you can access all your favorite online streaming services and sites from home when you're away and it protects you while using public Wi-Fi. To take our huge discount and extra months off your NordVPN plan. Go to NordVPN.com slash take. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money back guarantee. The link is in the podcast episode description box, so head there right away. Hello, it's Elizabeth Day here from the How to Fail Podcast. I know many of you have been gripped by Wandery's rather spooky murder mystery podcast Ghost Story, myself included. And so I'm delighted to announce that I'll be hosting a very special one-off event

called Ghost Story Live. So come join me, Ghost Story host Tristan Redman, and produce a Annie Brown for an unforgettable night of true crime mystery and investigation on the 5th of February at Theatre Royal Druer Elaine in London. We've just announced a special ticket sale, so to secure your tickets now, go to fein.co.uk forward slash ghost story. That's fein with an n-f-a-n-e.co.uk forward slash ghost story. NE.co.uk forward slash ghost story. Now I guess this week started his on-screen career with skins and then I'm just going to go through a number of words here, Daniel. Doctor Black Mirror, Black Panther, Widows, Noep, BAFTA, Oscar, Judas in the Black Messiah, anything else you want to just chip in before we get to the clip from the movie.

That'll do. It's Daniel Kuluya, his directorial debut is the kitchen, as just landed on Netflix. We'll talk with Daniel after you've heard this from the movie. This is Benji, because nuts on the back, you know. Wheelies. Who did that? You're saying bad at me. We'll get there. You'll get there. You're too good. How easy? Big assurance to the bedrooms and not.

Come, it was... Can I get some of your own food? I'm saying yard food. Where's the junk heart? Is that darn air spot still? Sometimes I sit around, Dad. That's a clip from the kitchen, Daniel Kaluya, is with us.

So just before you explain what's going on in that clip, Daniel, you have your co-writer, your producer, and a co-director on this movie. And which has been simmering away in your mind for how long? I was talking about 10 years, over 10 years, yeah. I got the, we did a taste of tape for it to get commissioned January 2014. That's where we shot it, so it's January 28, 24.

And did it take so long just because these things take a long time and you're very busy? I think it took a long, it takes a long time, but also there was a standard that we wanted, co-directed with Kidboy Tavores. There was a standard that we wanted, a co-directed with Kidbay Tavores. There was a standard that we wanted that we weren't there yet. Do you know what I mean? There's filmmakers, there's story tellers.

I think we had a, we had a, got mind, the actual heart of the story. We kind of like floated around it. We had to be real with ourselves as artists in order to get to, to, to, to more realised space. And it was, it has the idea of the kitchen change in those 10 years, or has it stayed pretty much face-for-time? Yeah, we did the taste of tape.

It was basically reservoir dogs in a barber shop. I can't see that. That's why I thought. But that would be 20 minutes. The racial that we had. So it just grew and then kept on going, who is an architecture background, we worked to build worlds and we felt like at that time, British cinema was about very minimalism

and we wanted to do maximalism. We wanted to make something with scale. And I think the culture had to change and everything had to happen, and all of this to be realized. So what is the kitchen? The kitchen is this self sufficient community and everyone's been moved out in London, like with the social houses and this is the kitchen? The kitchen is this self-sufficient community and everyone's been moved out in London

Like with the social houses and it's the last one standard and basically Government want to move them on and they say no, like they're just resistant. We'll not leave it And the following is this guy called Izzy who hates his community who wants out. He wants to leave It hasn't got enough money to really works at this funeral home Well, they turn bodies into trees And it's set in a lot near future. And he sees that his ex is died. Then he goes to his ex's funeral

and he sees his ex as a son. And then the dates match, and then the journey starts from there with them. And people listening to this will have just heard that clip. Can you explain a little bit about what we just listened to and how that fits with what your story is? So Benji, who's the son of his mom's died, he goes back to his home, basically no one's there,

he has a lot of electricity, he doesn't want to stay there, and he sees this man, is he played by Kane Robinson. And he's like, I think I know him, I think he knows me. I'm gonna go to him and he goes to the kitchen, is he lives in the kitchen, goes to the kitchen, doesn't file him but fires these kids who basically orphans too. Then they try to rob him, he says no, he resists and then the leader of the crew,

staples, basically goes, oh, this guy has nothing to lose. He can tell that he has no one and brings them in and he lets them stay and then you see that. All this front that Benji's got, he's hurt and inside and he really misses his mom and there's just wherever Izzy and Benji are gonna fight each other after he lands in the kitchen. So that self-sufficient community of the kitchen

is kind of, we're narrated through it by Lord Kitchener. Yeah. Tell me about Lord Kitchener who he is and what the role he's in. The King of Calypso, Lord Kitchener. Yeah, of course. Inspired by us, like a nod to the win-rush generation, to be honest, who I feel the father's and mothers of the Black British culture.

And yeah, so he's played by Ian Wright. And he is... He and Wright, the Arsenal, Ian Wright. So his full name is Ian Wright, right? Have you met Simon? Just got my Tottenham scar. Well done. Oh!

Oh! I know. You guys done all right? We're doing all right, don't we? We're doing all right. We're doing all right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was good as I thought. But by, right? Yeah, you be. Yeah, yeah.

That was good. That was awesome. By one point. Yeah, I mean, yeah, always. And then, can I just say at that point, I was speaking to an Arsenal season ticket holder just last week. He said, I wish your manager wasn't so likable. I like it.

I saw, I saw it in a view of him today. I said, I could go in the tangent. And it would talk about the trophies. Did you see that video? Yeah, the trophies are like. Anyway, sorry. see that video? I just want to be absolutely clear. I have never watched a football match in my entire life. So I have no idea what you're talking about. But the thing is Ian Wright as the DJ, he's fantastic. He's great. He is great. And it was so it's basically a homage to Pirate Radio to be honest and like how I felt like a Pirate Radio really defined an area.

Lord Kitchener is like the, he's got a radio stage called Kitchen Radio. And it builds the myth of the kitchen. Like he's like running this radio station, is playing the songs and is injecting hope and positivity and love into the community. And yeah, he just kind of like says, birthday shout out.

So he's kind of like the voice of the community. But it also made me think of things like, you know, do the right thing, the Spike Lee film, and like, in which we've got the DJ playing the music out of the towel. But you see, it's kind of a sense of the community having its own voice that sort of speaks through the film. It's own sound.

Yeah. That reflects the diaspora. That reflects the eclectic diverse nature of London, the sonic nature of London, I think out of all the cities I've traveled to, London is so integral to music, so integral to London. And so you have like the fellow cootie, you have the grime, you have the rap, you have the all, you have like, like, I mean, on set in order to get in into the movie, played like Lady and Red. Do you know what I mean? It's like, you have all these, but then that's when I grew up, they were playing no matter how much money you had,

you had a great sound system. You know what I mean? And you were playing, you're not running, the kids are not running the music is the adult, so you're listening to Whitney. You know, you listen to Phil Collins. You're not like, it's like, well, listen to Reggae, you know? So it's about that, that eclectic, diverse, diverse nature. Did you make it in right audition?

Yeah, you said a tape. You said a tape. Do you not just say, I know who you are. I know what you do. You'll be great. You're right. I would, I used to do that back in the day, but then I realized it was actually good to, to see it for what it is because a lot of it, because we wanted them, we want to, we want to collaborate as we want people to go, what would they bring to the role? And like Ian brought so much, so much heart, so much depth, like a lot of the scenes,

he was picturing like, and remembering what happened to South London, and that change and the gentrification that happened there, so he brought a lot to the role. Because there's this sort of underlying theme of, you know, almost like social cleansing, like everyone who actually is what London is about is being driven out. Yeah. And there's this sort of really fascinating inversion that, you know,

you think about dystopian visions of London, you think like, you know, the tower blocks, you know, that will be the, that will be the scary part. But actually, the estate is, is the, it's the place which is really interesting and it's everything outside which is faceless and soulless and you get this kind of idea of that community really, really thriving. Also, you mentioned that Kidway's background is in architecture and some of that stuff is it parisit shot in the exterior, it's extraordinary architecture. So the exterior, because we, because it's set in the future, and we're just hoping that all the estates, like architecturally, like, are very familiar,

and you want it to feel different. So we found this La Damia, which is this estate in Paris, and we thought that all the exteriors will be there, and all the market was like, East Ham, Bethnal Green. And we really built this market, and then we sat down with futurists,

and understood, that says, if I grew up near Caledonian Road, and then like, if you look at Caledonian Road, the structure is the same. And so in 1940s, it would be Johnson's and Sons, and it would be a Butchers, but now it's Iceland's. But the purpose is the same, but the aesthetic is a reflection of the community

and reflection of the society and what they value. So it's more capitalist, but it's still selling me. And it's about, basically, we wanted to, in the building of the world, you still see the past, which is our time now. But it has holograms, but it's grubby. It's like the cheap version of technology that we haven't seen. But that's also that's very really Scott Blader on a retrofitting, isn't it That the pass doesn't disappear. So the future grows on top of it. Yes, yes, yes, that was the goal. But in the outside world, the pass has been eliminated.

Yeah, exactly. Improvised at all. A lot of it is. Yeah, I come from an improvisation background. So I encourage that. And also, I've always believed that when I write, it's kind of like, I say to you, this is the cup of the suit.

Now we need to tailor it to you. Do you know what I mean? So it's like, if something sounds odd, I'm like, just, it sounds odd, let's change it. What would you say? It's about the intention behind it and it moving the scene and the character forward as opposed to say the line. You know? So there's a lot of improv, a lot of Kane Robinson, Kane, we didn't. Yeah, so he plays Izzy. Just tell us about Izzy. And you mentioned the funeral

home that he works at, which is called Life After Life. That's what is the significance of that and what is the positioning of that community with the kitchen? Yeah, Life After Life, Izzy works in Life After Life. So Iz is he feels like for me, it was like a selfish man. You know, he's about himself. He's representative of, I think there was a time when I was in my estate when during Brexit and how many people voted Brexit. You know what I mean? People essentially voted against their interests in a certain regard without understanding

what it was and people who vote aspirationally and want to leave, their area, they just don't like their area. And everyone's got the right to do what they want to do, and vote when they want to vote. There's no judgment here, but for me, it was an interrogation, it is an interrogation of that person, and that selfishness who doesn't want to be a part,

that individualistic person who wants to leave, and he wants to live off the life where he basically is convincing people to spend money so they don't have grave cemetery anymore. Graves, sorry, I'm really tired. Graves and... You're more cohere in the wheel when we were awake, so you know it's fun.

And grave stones. And basically if you pay, if you do the life of the life then basically you won't know where your tree goes, essentially. When you pay more, you have a choice of where your tree lands. And he works and he's just convincing his own people to do something against their interest.

So he's like, it's kind of like a capitalistic tool that is playing within the construct. That's the position that we want to know. And there's a scene of getting the young kid to say, oh yes, when I lost somebody, and using him as a sort of selling device, which is really painful. Well, I feel like in this day and age

as that, that's what we do with our pain. We sell it. We sell it for people to believe in us, to love us, to sell more stuff. And then is he's just part of that culture? And he doesn't really see the pain We sell it for people to believe in us, to love us, to sell more stuff. And then is he's just part of that culture. And he doesn't really see the pain that this kid is actually going through. And he goes, I can, I see it in terms of, to use it.

You know, and that's what he does in the scene. Now, this is, we'll be turning up on Netflix where people can see it. I did, when it finished, I thought, I mean, I don't, I'm sure Netflix will have an opinion on this. It felt to me as though there was more to come from this community that you've built in the kitchen and all these characters spinning off into all kinds of other different stories. I mean, it could be, it could go well to make this one, but I feel like. Would you want to do that?

I'm thinking about it and being, we'll go in around and listen to people talk about it. I feel there's room to them. We did so many versions of it. There's so many different characters that we've made during this, during this 10-year journey that we have the material and the stories to do that. And also it was a reflection of our beginnings, kidways from Brixton, I'm from Camden,

there's so many characters, there's so many people that you can delve into. So there's potential to do it, but if the story's right and the idea is right. What does your barber make of it? Because originally he was gonna be in his shop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because basically we did the taster tape.

We put me, Kibweaner producer put 200 pound each, and then we shot in his shop. And then he was like, have it for free because he was, he's, they off, and then the shop was being used. And then I was like, no, I'll give him a bill, give him a hundred pounds. And he was like, don't cut me out.

Don't cut me out, I wanna be a part of it. It's don't cut me out. And then, like, and I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And then he's ended up in the film. So we shot a bit of press and he's probably shot the other day in the Halloween. And he was excited.

Excited to meet Angelica Bell, that's what he was. He hugged her a lot of times. You've worked with some fantastic directors. What kind of a director are you? I think I'm open up and I love, I love, I want to create a environment where people are happy because I think I just believe people work better when people are happy, but focused.

I empower people, I've got that a lot from like, X-D, McQueen, and Powers, all. Everyone's an expert in their own field. It's about guiding them to... Everyone being on the same page and guiding them. So, I'm very collaborative, I'm direct, I want to knit things in a bud. I'm interested in what people will have to offer and want to be surprised.

How do you empower an actor? but I'm interested in what people will have to offer and wanna be surprised. Just to say. How do you empower an actor? Because I know, for example, the boy who plays Benji, Jedi, a badman, hasn't been in a movie before. How do you empower him? Create a culture where if there was a certain scene that I've written and then he would go,

yeah, I don't know if 13-year-old would do that. The fact that he's comfortable to say that is how I feel like I've done my job into empowering him so he could speak up and go, well, you don't know 13-year-olds, that's not what a 13-year-old did, that's more than like what seven-year-old would be. You know what I mean? So it's like sometimes I could be limited, but also it's sensing him and going when he's uncomfortable because he may not be able to communicate that uncompabilitly because he hasn't been on set a lot and going'm going, oh, like, what's wrong? What's happening?

And then he feels comfortable to open up, comfortable to be in that space and knowing that he's feeling so about the scene and what's going on matters because you'll see that on the screen. So, and for me, that also, so I'm like, came, it's going like, say, do two takes, the way it's written,

and go, what would you do? Go on, last take, what would you do? Do what you want. Majority of time, the would you do? Go on, last take, what would you do, what you want? Majority of time, the body of the take is from that last take. It made the take looks from the other takes, but the body of it is from the looseness, the relaxness of that last take when they just add a line

and go just say what you feel, what's real, say what you feel, and then it will say, it's like, oh, that's surprising, and then he'll keep going in that vein, and then we'll get something like, it's the prize. And then he'll keep going in that vein. And then we'll get something like, it's like the last edition of News People like the print, you know what I mean? There's a bit like that.

I am DB, can sometimes be, it can be wrong sometimes. But it has, it has, it has Michael Fassbender as an executive producer on this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So how did that, how did that come? We shared an agent and the agents are exept producer and in the company DMC film.

And then yeah, exactly, and very beginning in terms of development, like 2015, 2014, yeah. So the Netflix choice is an interesting one. Or maybe it wasn't a choice. I just interested to know why you went that way. Was that the only way to get it funded? Was that the best way to get it to the audience

that you wanted to get it to? For me, it's like, I want people to, I love audiences. I want to bring cinema to audiences, like all the decisions I've made. So it's about going, all right, cool. And I'm very much, I want British culture to be global, especially contemporary British culture. And so for me, it's like, how do you,

what helps you get there? Do you know what, who's speaking to those audiences? And how do we shift that needle? And because of the success of top boy, there is a hunger for it. You know what I mean? And it's like, there is a,

and also for people to get behind it, I don't want it to be treated as if it was just this regional piece. And to the side, like we went to New York and it, we got played in Manus and Square Garden. I want that for our culture I want that for our scene and and for cinema. I mean Paul Gringras when he was on the show I think it was the last day he said you know he he would choose to do it for that reason that he wants

He wanted a younger audience to see this movie and it would sit there for a long time and people can discover it over a period Yeah, I'm very sensitive about the fact that we could possibly alienate the youth in terms of cinema. Just saying that and like, making sure that's why we do youth premieres and engaging young people to come to the cinema and have the communal experiences, because why would they? I mean, they've grown up with the internet. They've grown up with great internet broadband and everything.

I didn't have broadband when I was young. I said, they have a different lifestyle. So we have to be proactive in engaging them with longer form stories. And like, going, oh, this is worthwhile. And the people that are off now, the talent that is like that they relate to are in films and in cinema. So like, so yeah, it's about getting to the people.

More directing now or more acting real on the basis of this, you're going to go get back in the direct to a real chair. Whatever the idea needs for me, I'm not really like, just you know, but I've done acting essentially for 18 years. Don't quite well. Yeah, not a nice. Yeah, so it's like, I feel like this is a challenge that I wanted. This is a growth to a sense, but I did write on skin, so it's not, I've been doing off-camera stuff as well, so I feel like I could see myself directing till I'm old, you know what I'm saying?

Like I think acting, I've acted so young, so it would probably be hard to do that till I'm like, old. You say it's like, my was just funny, because you said like when I was young, I didn't have a broadband, when I was young, he didn't have a broadband, when I was young, they didn't have a phone. Yes, it is. It's different.

It's different. It's different cultures, different vibes. Daniel, Kallia, thank you so much for coming and really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Appreciate that. It is well worth your time finding if you've got Netflix

or go to someone you have because... I think everyone's got Netflix there, if they're really... And that's why it makes perfect sense for him to put this sort of statement movie out there. Anyway, you said most of what you think, but. Yeah, I mean, I just think the thing to reiterate is, I think the thing that's fascinating about this kind of, is this near future vision of London,

and in which there is this community, and the whole idea is that all the people from London that are really what London that London is about have been driven out. The gentrification has happened and it's in this area, in this as he described it, this kind of self-preserving community. It's, you know, at one point somebody says, oh, it's a terrible place. It's an S hole, I won't say the word, but yes, but it's also a safe haven. It's also a kind of place where the real world is actually still living. And I think there is an interesting inversion in that that you've got that, you know, if you look at sort of near future movies and quite often, a state to sort of seen as dark

and grimy, it's scary, but actually that's the place that real life is happening. And the scary element is outside the kind of the gentrified apartment that you can move into that the central character wants to buy himself this clean apartment, where there's not even a window, but there's a video screen showing you visions of London or Paris or somewhere else that you could live. So it's really, it's about those two things, the kind of the faceless future in which everything is clean and everything is corporate. And it's not a real life.

And then this sort of thriving market, this place where there's a lot of stuff going on and all human life is like a North African soup. Yes, a soup, exactly the word, thank you, exactly what I couldn't think of. And so, again, it's interesting in the same week that the end we start from, which is, again, it's about things that are actually happening in the real world now, forced migration, all that sort of stuff. And this is about people being pushed out of their home. It is about the sort of politics of social cleansing. It's all about, you know, it's about what happens when, you know, people are dispossessed

and people are, you know, people are shunted out of the areas where their history exists. I mean, aesthetically again, I've mentioned this before, it's interesting. These two films are out in the same week. There's a nod to children of men. I thought the use of locations was very good, and it's interesting that he's co-director, as I said, has a background in architecture, because certainly when you look at that world building, it does have an architectural eye.

The thing about you create new worlds by taking worlds that exist and building the future on top of them. So I thought it was impressive again. I think it's not a big action-packed explosion, or all that sort of stuff. It's a character drama. I mean, for all the near future stuff, and for all the sci-fi element, it is a character drama. It is in the end a drama about people living in an area that they are being pushed out of and finding a sense of community within it. So, yeah, I think it works well.

Excellent. So that's on Netflix. It's the ads in a minute, Mark. But first of all, let's step again with Joy and with expectation into the laughter lift. Yikes. into the laughter lift. Yikes. A mark so cold this week, it made me want to book my summer holidays. We've decided to go to Egypt this year. Mind you, I'll have to take care. I injured my back on my last trip to Egypt. You know how I suffered from a bad back, Mark.

I had to see a chiropractor. Have you ever been to Egypt? I thought you were so, if you ever discovered, no, I haven't though. Specifically, have you ever been to a marketplace in Egypt? I haven't, it's quite bizarre. Little known story. The whole setup was for that joke.

Well, chiropractor was the main joke. Oh, I see, I didn't even get that. I didn't even get that. You never kept it, Lily. I didn't even get that. I didn't even get that. Chiropractor. Practoring I didn't even get that. I didn't even get that. Cairo-Practor. Practoring Cairo.

I bet you that joke works better written down. Inevitably. Because when he said Cairo-Practor, I just heard the word Cairo-Practor. Cairo. I have been to a Cairo-Practor recently. Thanks for asking. Little known story about the discovery of a major tomb in Egypt. On the morning of 26th of November 1922,

explorer Howard Carter and his sponsor, Lord Canavan, were just about to enter a long-sealed corridor when they both farted at the same time. They had a toot in common. Did he say, I'm all right, Howard Carter. Anyway, we'll be back after this. Unless we're trying to guide Easter, in which case we have just one question, how many insects are there for each human on the planet? Can I just add to that joke, how do you get into a pyramid? You tune and come in. You're subjected from the joke, I think.

How many insects are there for a price? Gully's laughing. Gully's laughing. He's paid to laugh. Each human on the planet answered in a moment. each human on the planet answering a moment. And the answer is there are roughly 1.4 billion insects for every human on the planet. Are you listening to the new John Ronson podcast?

That's 1.4 billion insects for each human being on the planet. I am three episodes in. Have you got to the episode, which is an experience, is things fell apart? No, don't do a spoiler then. I haven't got to anything about insects.

Oh, okay. That's coming up. I'm sorry, but just I knew you were listening. Excellent. Can we say hello to John Ronson? Things fell apart. Me. John Ronson.. Can we say hello to John Ronson? Things for the whole time. Me! John Ronson.

Okay, yes, hello to John. And congratulations on having a very successful. It's brilliant. I've been to the whole thing in one... There is no one like John. Okay, what else is that? The Holdovers, which is the new drama from Alexander Payne, who was the guy behind the election about Schmidt, Nebraska, and perhaps most celebratedly sideways.

So this reteams Alexander Payne with sideways star Paul Jimati, who won a gold and globe recently, driven by David Hemingsdon, who apparently drew on his own experiences of being at boarding school, and from time he spent with an uncle and learning life lessons. So the film is set. It's weird because it's released now, but it's said at Christmas. And it's kind of odd that they didn't actually release it at Christmas. It's a bit strange.

So it's said around Christmas 1970. It has the look and texture of a film that was made in the period in which it is set. Paul Giamatti is Paul Hannum, who is classics professor at this university. It's not the university, this elite New England boarding school. What I say university, I literally just said boarding school, Barton Academy, he is disconsolate, he is misanthropic, he's lonely. He views the students with a degree of contempt, although he's, you know, he's a great educator,

but you get the sense that we get the sense that something has happened in his life and he should have been somewhere, he should have been in more glorious surroundings, but he isn't. And we see that he drowns his sorrows in alcohol. After failing to give one posh student an appropriately high grade to get him into the university that he wanted to go to. The headmaster says, you know, he's a father's got money, he said, yeah, but he didn't get the grade. So he is then given the job of looking after the holdovers. These are students who stay behind at school at Christmas because they haven't got somewhere to go to for various reasons. One such is Angus, he's played by a Dominic Cessar, rising star, that Dominic Cessar, who was expecting to go home, but who learns at the last moment that that isn't going to happen, that his mom and her new partner

want time together. So he's not going back. So, embedded angry professor, Angri, Professor, Embittered, Angri, Young Student, and Stoical Head Cook, Mary Lambert, played by divine joy Randolph, who won the Golden Globe for supporting actress and rightly so. She is grieving the loss of her son in the Vietnam War. At first, the group Bicar and Fight, not least after a, which they have to leave early after things don't quite go as planned, here's a clip. This is why I hate parties. That was a disaster, total disaster. Speak for yourself.

I was having fun. Let's take Mary home, make sure she's OK, and we'll come back. Out of the question, come on, would you give me a break? I was hitting it off with the lease. No, the lease? Are you kidding me? This poor woman is I was sitting in the office with a lease. No, not the lease. Are you kidding me? This poor woman is bereft. And all you can think about is some silly girl.

I don't need you filling sire for me. See? I'm just saying. This was the first good thing that came with being this prison with you. Need I remind you that it is not my fault that you are stuck here? Do you think I want to be baby sitting you?

Oh, no, no. I was praying to the God. I don't even believe in that your mother would pick up the phone or your father would arrive in a helicopter or submarine or a flying saucer to the dead. You see, I love that. I love the fact with that line about, you know, it ends up praying to the God

I don't believe in that your father would turn up in a helicopter or a flying saucer. My father is dead. In a way, it's so what happens is obviously you know because of everything you're learning about the drama. You know that what's going to happen is during the course of the drama, they're going to find things out about each other. They're going to discover through this kind of crotchety interaction of these people thrown together each dealing with their own personal Feelings that they are going to find some way of you know getting under each other's skin So the format may be unsurprising, but there is nothing unsurprising about just how good and just how enjoyable this is

I know this sounds like a strange thing to say, but it feels like the kind of bitter sweet character Dialogue-driven piece that they just don't make anymore This sounds like a strange thing to say, but it feels like the kind of bittersweet character, dialogue-driven piece that they just don't make anymore. If you walked into a cinema and knowing nothing about this and knowing nothing about Pogema Teo, anyone, and you just started watching it, you would think you were watching a film from 1970.

I mean, that's, it's not just to do with the look and texture of the film, it's everything about it. It's like the kind of film they just don't make anymore. Do you remember when David Hartnum said he was going to stop making movies, sorry to me, because he thought it was no longer possible to make the kind of mid-range, intelligent drama that wasn't a big action blockbuster

and it wasn't the tiny. And then he said that actually George Clooney was making the kind of films that he thought you couldn't make anymore. The central trio, they're great. The performances are really, really good, really engaging and charming. At times it's hilarious, at times it's heartbreaking, it is nevertheless the not only engaging. At the end of it, and I saw it in a room with just a few people, I promised this is what happened. The film finished and the lights went up, and we almost incorros, all turned to each other and went, why don't they make films like that anymore?

Wow, okay. And I know, and what I don't want that to make it sound like, is because I don't believe in the thing about, films aren't as good as they were, because I actually think cinema is now, probably as good as if not better than it ever was. But there is something about the character dialogue driven, bitter sweet, I say, hilarious and heartbreaking, all those things. And it's just lovely. It's just absolutely

lovely. Max Walker in Ultry and plenty to like starting with the way it's talking about a whole lot of us. Yeah. Starting with the way it's talking about a whole though. So yeah, starting with the way it's filmed in grainy 70s films. It is. It's a start. Harking back to those 70s films I watched on TV in the late 70s. Paul Jamati plays his role to perfection as the old fashioned grumpy teacher at a boy's New England private school who thinks all his pupils are spoiled rich kids.

It does what all the best films do, letting the story do the work. Reminiscent in parts to the Wonder Boys, one of my favorite films. It's well worth all time. Well, it's interesting. And refreshing change to most of what's out there at the moment. The Academy loves this kind of film,

and Paul Germati could be a best actor, Oscar winner, with Sessa and Randolph both shoe ins for supporting roles, highly recommended. So let's walk it. It's a great review. Thank you very much for the what songs that are coming in. So, this is where we invite you. If you've got something cinematic, vaguely cinematic, happening near you, and you want

a bit of a cheap plug, well, completely free plug. Excuse me. Yeah, okay. You want a classy, well polished, for free, badly recorded. Anyway, you send your voice note to correspondence at curb at curbremau.com like this for example. Hello from our dampened Reed Scotland. Our community cinema, Pixna sticks in East Linton is presenting a Winter warmers feel good film festival from 19th to 21st January. Tickets are three

pounds and five pounds and a donation of takings will go to East Lothian Food Bank. Our website address is pickseninestakes.org.uk for a full list of all the films we're going to be showing. Thank you, hope to see you there. Hi Simon Mark, this is Junko from the Japan Foundation Touring Film Programme. We haveご視聴ありがとうございました! which starts Sakura and Ophronco Dina minus one. Screenings run across the country from 2nd February to 31st March. So come and join us for the UK's biggest celebration of Japanese cinema. So that was Junco telling us about the Japan Foundation touring film program. Look out for that starting next month. Interesting enough, I realize from that that I've been saying,

Chienyasa Komoto's name, I've been mispronouncing it, so thank you very much. So thank you for that. And Anna inviting us to a new community film festival in East Linton, which sounded great, three pounds and five pounds for tickets. Sure, absolutely. Lovely. Pics in the sticks. Yeah, how, this is my favorite section of the show. My favorite section of the show is a bit that we don't talk. Send your 20 second or frankly whatever length you've had to see. Exactly. Audio trailer, well recorded, thank you. They both were, weren't they? They were both really well done. An enthusiastic, anyway, it can be a cinematic event anywhere in the world,

correspondence at Curbinamo.com. That's the end of take one. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's cast, That's the end of take one. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's cast Lily Gully, Vicki, Zachi Matty, Bethy, producer was Michael, the red actor was Simon. Mark, what is your film of the week? Well, I'm gonna go with the holdovers because I just thought it was, I said,

it's just a good old-fashioned crowd-pleasing drama about people. Take two is already there waiting for you loads of extra stuff. Recommendations, bonus reviews, take three on Wednesday with our questions and a few smestions. Thank you for listening.