Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Danielle Deadwyler, Women Talking, Epic Tails, Blue Jean, & Magic Mike’s Last Dance

Episode Date: February 10, 2023

We learn about the making of ‘Till’, and what Danielle thinks about the Awards. Mark reviews ‘Women Talking’ - a harrowing American drama about a religious isolated community starring Jessie Buckley, Rooney Mara and Claire Foy, ‘Epic Tails’ - which tells the story of a super smart mouse named Pattie and her feline friend Sam, who embark on an exciting adventure through ancient Greece. ‘Blue Jean’- Georgia Oakley’s standout feature film about a closeted PE teacher in the 1980s who must lead a double life in order to keep her job, and Channing Tatum takes to the stage once again in ‘Magic Mike’s Last Dance’ - which sees Mike Lane go to London for one last hoorah with a wealthy socialite (Salma Hayek). Time Codes (relevant only when you are part of the Vanguard): 11:44 Epic Tales Review 15:57 Box Office Top 10 32:21 Danielle Deadwyler and Barbara Broccoli Interview 48:43 Magic Mike’s Last Dance 54:31 Laughter Lift 58:22 Women Talking 01:08:39 What’s On 01:10:27 Blue Jean EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo A Somethin’ Else & Sony Music Entertainment production.    Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts   To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, esteemed podcast listeners, Simon Mayer. A Mark Kermode here. I'm excited to let you know that the new season of the Crown and the Crown, the official podcast, returns on 16th of November to accompany the sixth and final season of the Netflix epic Royal Drama Series. Very exciting, especially because Superstar and friend of the show Edith Bowman hosts this one.

Indeed, Edith will take you behind the scenes. You can also catch up with the story so far by searching the Crown, the official podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe now and get the new series of The Crown, the official podcast first on November the 16th. Where's my pen? Oh, there it is. You're right. What's going on? Well, two things. Firstly, welcome back. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry about last week. Are you, you're not fully recovered? I'm really not knowing. You're not at home. Well, I just thought I was committed to the cause. Really? Yeah, it's just one of those

seasonal lurkies, as I think people can hear. That used to be a thing in Manchester in the 1980s was if you turned up to man the barricades in a state of unwellness, everyone thought you were particularly comredly. And I remember once somebody, somebody turning up, somebody turning up, we were smashing something or other, come over what it was. The system, it's in the system, and somebody turned up and they were like coughing and hacking and being as ill as a dog. And somebody said, what a sterling comrade. Really stuck with me.

Yeah, well, I didn't really, so you're still in comrades. I didn't, I'm not persistent for those reasons, but I just thought, you know, it was, you know, it's not nice to lose a show. So I just, I mean, I know the show happened, but obviously the show happened. That was you, without me. What noise, whatever that phone noise was, was it me? I didn't hear a noise. No one hear a noise. I had a noise. Mark hearing things. I probably am hearing things, which can I just say is more than you are?

Because before we recorded this show, we were in the room having a conversation, you, me, Simon, Paul. Yes. And I told, I said to Simon, oh, it's like that time when that thing happened with la la la la la la la la. And then you literally went,

it's like that time when that thing happened with la la la la, it's like, I literally just, I literally, definitely do it being ill. It is everything to do being ill. It means that in the same way as, does that work at home? In the same way as you admired your comrade for turning up whilst being sick,

you should also appreciate me for turning up whilst being sick. But you literally were not registering that I had just said exactly the same thing. I can't listen to everything that you say. No, precisely. And then I said, it's like that, you know, that's a funny way to start a conversation. And you didn't even remember that joke, which is your joke. No, well, it's not my joke. Come in, I just do what I'm told, basically.

Anyway, welcome back. Nice to have you back. Thank you, Brian. Thank you very much. I mean, what happened? What do you mean? When I wasn't here. Well, I had to end up doing with Robbie. We couldn't find another presenter. There was nobody to fill your your boot size. So so what we did was we got in Robbie.

We had two critics. It was kind of interesting because, you know, the way that this works is you present an eye critique and then we sort of, but it was like Robbie critiqued an eye critiqued and we sort of it was the Gephistic half. No, he was, I mean, Robbie's incredibly civilized, but it was completely different because at the beginning of the show, for example, he started the show and I said, you have to say, you know, well,

come on, he went, oh, thank you. I mean, no, no, you have to do your bill in the percentage, yeah. That's true. Well, look, you know, I'll try and make it to the end of the pod. Thank you. If that's okay.

Yes. What are you gonna be doing, by the way? I'm going to be reviewing films. Do you want to know what? What films are you going to be doing? Epic Tales the Animation, Magic Mike's Last Dance, which is the new Magic Mike film. Obviously, we've been talking, which is a Sarah Polly movie and Blue Jean, and there is a reissue of Titanic. Also, super serving for our Extra Takes Brigade, at least it always says 90 minutes of this nonsense, but I'm... You'll never lost that in long. Lots of reviews, more reviews, double the nonsense, pretentious, moire. Currently it's the

people nine versus Mark Kermode. Why does Last Week not count? Because it was Robbie. They did it on Robbie last week. He didn't do it to me. He did it on him and he got it. But it was kind of cheating. It was Gaspon No A's love. There are not many films in which you'd use the kind of phrases that you used to review Gaspon No A's love. What words would you use? Well, it was the thing about, you know, Mr. Happy making appearances. You know, it was fairly straightforward.

And what are we doing on taking all of it? Doing Queen's Gambit, guess how much of it I've seen? You've seen all of it? I've seen all of it. I've seen all of it. Oh great, we've've seen all of it. I've seen all of it. Okay, we've both seen all of it. That'll be fun. By the way, on next weeks,

shrink the box you can enjoy ad-free on the take, we learn why Beth Harmon feels compelled to clean up after parties. He's highly controlled at the chess board and thoroughly chaotic away from it. These are the insights you can expect love a bit of channel synergy. You can support us via Apple Podcast

or head to extratakes.com. Even better as as the Vanguard will get, take two on a Friday, so take one and take two arriving at the same time. And an ad-free version of Shrinkly Box with Good Old Ben Bailey Smith on a Tuesday. If you are already a Vanguard Easter, as ever, we do indeed salute you. Correspondence at chromedameo.com. Dr Andrew Crome, senior lecturer in history at Manchester Metropolitan University. Crome as in CHR OME. CR OME. Without the age, but that's still a fantastic thing. That's like that's the name of a superhero. It makes you sound as you know there are other lecturers in history, but if you're called Crome. That's like that's the name of a superhero. It makes you sound as, you know, there are other lecturers in history, but if you're called Chrome,

it's like you're the upgraded. It's like, definitely. Until Dr. Platinum comes along. Andrew says, I was interested to hear your discussion of the definition of apocalypse and post-apocalypse last week. This read it's ugly head. Yeah, well, we did that ages ago.

Yes, and then somebody wrote in and complained last week and said, stop saying that you can't have post-apocalyptic. I only started saying because somebody wrote in and said, stop saying post-apocalyptic. Because what they said was that actually in its original world, apocalypse just means reveal. Okay, all right.

Anyway, it's one of the topics I research, says Dr. Crome, that is a Marvel character. Definitely to be put, who's going to Hugh Jackman could come back and play Dr. Chrome? Hugh Jackman, hopefully, on the show fairly soon. Oh, great. Anyway, you'll be stunned to learn that there is no consensus between academics on what constitutes apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic when speaking about popular

culture and whether the latter term is even applicable at all. As you discussed last week, apocalypse comes from the Greek meaning an unveiling or revelation. There we are. Some therefore would say a film like The Incredible Shrinking Man and its revelation of the nature of humanity's place in the universe in the protagonist closing monologue would qualify as a poccalimatic. It's all very, very precise. Anyway, it's a long academic email. You know that that's how the incredible shrinking man finishes. Is that right? He gets smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and he escapes with the cat and he escapes from the mouse and he escapes from the spider and all the rest of it. And then it

ends that he walks out, he looks up the stars and he realizes that the mouse and he escapes from the spider and all rest of it. And then it ends that he walks out, he looks up the stars and he realizes that he's still part of God's creation for end. It's just slightly disappointing. It is, it's like, that's the end of the birds when they just drive out and the birds sit on the fence. Anyway, Lord Crome concludes,

however you want to define apocalypse, there's no technically correct way. Somewhere there'll be a film or religion scholar who'll tell you you're wrong. Okay. So in other words, whatever we do, we haven't really moved on. But what a delight says Lord Chrome to hear Mark mentioning two of the most interesting of these apocalyptic films last week in the Rapture and Southland tales, although I may be in a minority of one with my appreciation of the latter. OK. By the way, Mark may well be familiar with the literary critic Frank Kermod, who wrote the classic sense of an ending on Apocalypse Infection.

On several occasions I found myself erroneously attributing his findings to Mark before usually correcting my Kermods. That's very good. But no relation. No, although I believe that Frank Kermod's son was called is called. I believe that Frank Kermod has was cool, I believe that Frank Kermod has a relative called Mark, well, who isn't me, but I have been mistaken for that person. Correspondents at Kermodemoe.com, Professor Claire Grierson, Simon and Mark, resident, Tossel Flats, 1987 to 1980.

That was your, my wife at University Haunt. Yes. I didn't particularly enjoy my time. We've heard, but well done for moving on. Thank you, yes. And also, molecular biologists' pew, which I imagine is to the rear of the church, says Claire. So fewer people notice when we drift off,

hallucinating about biological machinery. Listen, since the 1980ss to you both initially separately and later together, first time email her. So she's been around a long time. Three weeks ago after a short illness, my husband and partner have almost 26 years, he's called Mark II, died. Mark had a serious heart condition, but loved life and lived it to the full and we have two wonderful young adult children. One of the things I never managed to convert Mark

to was your shows or podcasts, but I wanted to write and tell you that, without you, we wouldn't have had some of our most precious times together, and I'm writing to say thank you. I've just realized that one of the last things Mark and I watched together was, a bunch of amateurs. There is absolutely no way that either of us would have ever seen this funny, beautiful, and poignant film if I hadn't heard your heartfelt recommendations. For many years, Mark had limited energy because of his heart, so he had to be careful watching anything substantial as this could leave him very tired. If we watched something too intense, it might even put him in hospital. It really helped to have your insights and reassurance that films would be suitable and worth it.

Just as a pause point, that's really fascinating. Just to think that it actually, it's worth talking about the intensity or the content of a movie just so that people can go and see it and be fully informed. Yeah, absolutely. A bunch of amateurs took us on a great journey together on our sofa. We laughed, we cried, we held hands. We recognized the love and care between people making the best that they could from what life had given them. Rich humanity was so gently conveyed, we were both deeply moved and very grateful to have seen it. Little did we know that within weeks marks health would suddenly take a turn for

the worse, that he would be in palliative care in our home, that I would be nursing him, that he would be making his own peaceful exit surrounded by me and our children. Thank you both so much for many life affirming film-watching experiences that Mark and I had over almost 26 years together. Deep feelings we were able to share watching amazing films like this together because of your recommendations. Whether you read this out or not, I hope you and your team know how much your show matters and how much our lives, especially those of us with relatively little time or energy, are enriched by having you as our guides,

helping us to find golden nuggets in a sea of films and more recently television. Thank you. From Professor Claire Grierson, who signs off Vanguard Easter, BSC, Ons, Microbiology and Microbial Technology, 1988 University of Warwick, PhD, Plant Molecular Biology, 1993, Cantab, which is Cambridge. Oh, right. Claire, thank you very much. And very sorry to hear about your sad news and marks passing, but very happy, of course, to carry on doing what we're doing. Also, I should say that to the best of my knowledge, the people who made Bunch of Amateurs do listen to the show, and they will be thrilled to have heard that, because I met some of them, they were really, really lovely people, and we'll also pass that email onto them. So thank you very much. Yeah, correspondence at carbonamau.com.

So a whole bunch of things out this week, what should we be going to see? Well, that's a kind of leading question. I'll really, I'll really face that. There's a bunch of things out this week. Tell us about one of them. Okay, so epic tales. Epic tales is an animated film.

Did you ever wake up and think, you know what I really need in my life is Tom and Jerry meets Jason and the Argonauts? Yes, actually just this morning. Just this morning? Well, you're in luck. Ex-because due to the miracle of redubbing a French animation into English, you now have epic tales. Or as it was called in at least one territory, Argonuts. I quite like that. Thank you.

Ancient Greece, Port Town guarded by the Golden Fleece makes everything living harmony, including cats and dogs, which always makes me think of, you know, cats and dogs living together. Ghostbusters. Oh, is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Patty is a mouse who dreams of winning the lottery and traveling the world every evening. She goes to the port to hear old Jason from Jason the Argonauts tell tall tales of his

adventures or he can't remember anything anymore. He has a cat friend called Sam who is anxious about Patties dreams. And when Pattie does win the lottery, Sam hides the ticket, bad Sam. But then the God Poseidon gets angry that the Greeks have made a statue glorifying his vain brother Zeus. Got it? Yes, I'm intrigued. His Eclipse.

Oh, Stan! Who's got the classiest statue? I do. Me. Zeus! Haha! It's awesome. I think it's the most beautiful ever made for me.

Huh? What do you think? Oh, just look at that. Look how it glows in pure gold. So shiny, they're endimons and the intentions and atomic detail. So true to the original. Lots of men wearing towels. Well, it's, you know, great God stuff. So anyway, Sidon then threatens to destroy the town unless they build an equally vast statue of him, then Patty goes off with a skeleton crew,

a skeleton crew on the Argo to go get the magical trident from a row island encountering on route Hydro and giant robots and so. So here's the thing. So the animation is fine. Um, the English voice dub is fairly dire. The music goes from being inane to being actively irritating. I grew up on Ray Harryhausen and I can't figure out why I'm with anybody would want to revisit this sort of stuff with an animated mouse. There was one bit in it when the skeleton crew were doing their stuff and it reminded me of how much I enjoyed pirates in an adventure with scientists. Remember that, the Iron Animation, which was was really good fun. It's this is just, I mean, I don't know. It's the vacuum theory again, isn't it?

If there's nothing else and you want to take, you know, a young kid to go and see something, it's on. I think that's the very best I can say about epic tales. It's on. Right. I once had a holiday in America, just north of Boston, somewhere, and we found ourselves on a beach, and lots of men in towels were there. Exactly like they were in that animation.

Were they Greek gods? Well, they thought they were, but they... I'm one guy in a towel. It's quite a small towel, which only kind of went halfway round. Wanted to know if I wanted an ice cream. I told them I didn't know. I just know if I wanted an ice cream. I told him I didn't like it. I didn't like it. Mr. Whippy? Certainly, Mr. Happy. Anyway, I can't believe it.

Do you know how long that joke is? Do you know where the joke about Mr. Happy comes from? I remember it's back to five live days. So, colour of night, the Bruce Willis film was the origin of Mr. Happy. That was how that's how old that joke is. He spoiled the Mr. Men books for generations. I'm so sorry. Do you think you'll be rushing to see epic tales? I think if it was on in front of me, I would sort of turn away. Should say, epic tales, T-A-I-L-S. Oh, I've said it's about different tales. It does really improve. Very much.

Okay, well hopefully there'll be some more interesting stuff on the way. There will be. Adds in just a moment, unless of course you're in the van Gogh, in which case we'll be back before you can say Peter Laurie. Hi, esteemed podcast listeners, Simon Mayow. I'm Mark Kermot here. I'm excited to let you know that the new season of the Crown and the Crown, the official podcast, returns on 16th of November to accompany the sixth and final season of the Netflix epic Royal Drama series.

Very exciting, especially because SuperSub and Friend of the show Edith Bowman hosts this one. Indeed, Edith will take you behind the scenes, dive into conversation with the talented cast and crew from writer and creator Peter Morgan to the crowns Queen Elizabeth, Emelda Staunton. Other guests on the new series include the Crowns Research Team, the directors, executive producers Suzanne Mackie and specialists such as Voice Coach William Connaker and props master Owen Harrison. Cast members including Jonathan Price, Selim Dor, Khalid Abdullah, Dominic West and Elizabeth Tabicki.

You can also catch up with the story so far by searching The Crown, the official podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe now and get the new series of The Crown, the official podcast, first on November 16th. Available, wherever you get your podcasts. Happy Nord Christmas. Protect yourself whilst Christmas shopping online and access all the Christmas films from around the globe. Plus, when you shop online, you'll have to give websites your card details and other sensitive

data like your personal addresses. Those websites should already have their own encryption built into their payment systems, but to be on the safe side, you can use a VPN to ensure that all data coming to and from your device is encrypted. Even if you're using an unsafe Wi-Fi, you'll still be able to shop securely with a VPN. And you can access Christmas films only available overseas by using streaming services not available in the UK. To take our huge discount off your NordVPN plan, go to NordVPN.com slash take. Our link will also give you four extra months for free on the two-year plan. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money back guarantee. The link is in the podcast episode

description box. This episode is brought to you by Mooby, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe. From myConnect directors to emerging otters, there's always something new to discover, for example. Well, for example, the new Aki Karri's Mackey film Fallen Leaves, which won the jury prize at CAN, that's in cinemas at the moment. And if you see that and think I want to know more about Aki Karri's Mackey, you can go to Mooby the streaming service and there is a retrospective of his films called How to Be a Human. They are also going to be theatrically releasing

In January Priscilla, which is a new Sophia Coppola film, which I am really looking forward to since I have an Elvis obsession. You can try Movie Free for 30 days at Movie.com slash Kermud and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. And we're back. Here we go with the box office top 10 at 26 EO, which is the Yershi Skolomoski film about a donkey. So EO is kind of, is it on a matter of pick? Is it, well, yes, isn't it? Yeah. so the donkey is named EO. And this is inspired by a breast-on film from the 60s, but it's very much its own beast, no pun intended. I really liked it.

The story is a donkey who is working in a circus, the circus gets closed down because they don't want animals working in circuses anymore. Goes off on a series of encounters with humans, some of whom are kind, some of whom are cruel, some of whom are crazy. And it's really about, you know, a donkey's eye view of humanity, but it's profound and touching and moving.

It's got an absolutely brilliant score by Pavel Miktin, Mikietin, and I really like it. You just got a Moskis, you've got an incredible career. And there's a BFI retrospective of his entire career, including the Weirdy British horror film The Shout. Happening at the BFI quite soon. So do check that out. Zira Fingo on our YouTube channel about EO. Yes.

There's a great shot in this film. The donkey is being taken away in a trailer as it's being transported. We see the donkey's perspective inside the moving trailer, a small cramped trailer taking him or her to some eventual destination. We notice some daylight entering the trailer via a tiny window to the side of the dog, from the side of the donkey. From this same window, we then see a herd of horses galloping into frame, not a human

inside. Yes, it's a juxtaposition, beautiful in its simplicity, but you owe it to yourself to see this scene and embrace its beauty it's why cinema was created. It's also, it kind of echoes a scene which I think is later, which is of Eo in a barn, in which there is a sort of array of light that comes in kind of semi-heavenly light, because whenever you have a donkey in a barn, you immediately think the little donkey of Christian iconography.

And the breast on incidentally is much more heavily, religiously allegorical. This is actually a largely secular film, but there is that mirroring of those two shots. Number 20, Santa Mayor, which is a really fascinating film by Alice Diop. It's essentially a courtroom drama in which a young woman is accused of having killed her child and she kind of argues that she did, but she's not guilty because she's not responsible and this is being watched by a journalist who is writing on the subject of Medea, but who is herself pregnant. And it's, it is one of those examples of a film in which very little happens,

and yet a huge amount happens. And it's, Robbie and I were very much in agreement on it. Last week, it is unlike anything else you will see around at the moment. Number 10, in the 10, Roll Dolls Matilda, the musical still there. Still there. Still there. Number 10 in the 10, role-dolls were tilled of the musical still there. Still there. Number nine is Babylon. Number eight here. Number seven in the States is Megan, which I would have if you get a moment, I mean probably when it comes to streaming services,

do check it out because I think you'll enjoy it just because the satire it is funny. Number seven in the UK, the Fablemans, not charted in America. Well, did it? Yeah, but it kind of flopped in America, didn't it? It was one of the, I mean, it opened last year. And it was one of the big prestige Oscar bait releases that didn't take any money, which was why when I was doing my review of it, I said, it's, you know, it's, it's a wards bait because the critics were falling over it and it was getting all these big awards nominations, but nobody was going to see it.

Which is why ET is a more interesting film because it's of course, it's a crowd pleaser. Plane is at number six. Gerard Butler, on a plane. The plane goes down on an island. An island so scary that the army won't go there because of the last time they did, they got their ass kicked. So Gerard and his mate have to save the day and it's ridiculous, but I kind of enjoyed it. A new entry at number five is The Whale.

Yes, I was very sorry that you were off last week because I don't know whether you listened to the show, but your interview with Brendan Fraser and Darren Aronofsky was terrific. And what I said was that the genius of the interview was not only did you, you know, did you kind of get to the heart of the film, but I also think that you kind of allowed Aronofsky and Brendan Fraser to be hoisted by their own pertard in as

much as all the things that I don't like about the film was stuff that they sort of said. Now Robbie took issue with whether or not when Aronofsky said it's a small movie with a big heart, whether he was being ironic or whether he was towing the line or whether that's what he actually thinks. So now that you're here, when Darren Aronofsky said it's a small movie with a big heart, which is the kind of thing that makes people want to tear my ears off and actually is exactly what I don't like about the film. Do you think he meant it or do you think he was just throwing a line? I think he probably meant it.

I understand what he was saying. So I would think it was a line he'd probably used before. Yes, absolutely. And it's quite happy with that line. Because by the time we get to these people, they've done these interviews in the States and so on. So there are usually lines that they've tried before. And I think he was happy with the lines. But what Robbie was saying was, I don't believe for one minute that Darren Aronowski thinks he's made a small movie with a big heart, and I do. Alex on Twitter, as much as it wasn't a comfy watch, given the no-now come, and the characters felt unsympathetic,

I still enjoyed everything about the whale. I've watched a lot of theatre at the cinema in recent years, and this despite being a film still felt like that. Okay. to at the cinema in recent years, and this despite being a film still felt like that. Okay. Um, Fraser says, Marcus and Sassimian, despite being a voracious long-term podcast listener, I've never contacted a podcast, but something so strangely specific happened in a recent episode, I feel obligated to write.

Okay. As you, Mark, were questioning why the name Fraser was always pronounced Fraser, I couldn't believe what I was hearing, says Fraser. I once had a science teacher who mispronounced my name on every mention, despite correcting them at every single roll call. Little did I know at the time, but this mispronunciation would become a lifelong annoyance that I have long since stopped correcting precisely. I could describe my reaction to your support as animate. And I had no other people in cars nearby saw my supportive display. After many decades of phrasier phrasier prejudice,

I must say I feel strangely seen. And thank you for your wonderful. Sheen. I mean, yeah, it's just, it is absolutely battling. How, why would anyone look at Fraser and go Frazier? I would say incidentally that it's not in the same league. I spend my life telling people it's curmode, not commode, but it makes no difference.

So it's like, people often correct me to my face. So I'll go, you know, like if I go to the phone shop or something, you know, what's your name, Dr. Kermode? Oh, Dr. Kermode? No. No, but you go, yeah, all right, fine. Frank Kermode, who you mentioned earlier on, gave up correcting people.

My mum, Audrey Kermode, when trying to book a hotel room in the Isle of Man, which is where the name comes from, and it's a contraction of McDermott, said that the point at which she lost hope was when she was trying to book a hotel room in the Isle of Man and she said, Audrey Kermode, and they said, how do you spell it? And she went,

oh, for heaven's sake. The only story I have that's ever were close to that is that we were booking a family holiday to Ireland. County Mayo. Well, I can see this coming precisely right and we're booking it. And the receptionist said, Mayo, that's a funny name. And I said, well, County Mayo. Oh, yes. So.

Staying at the wrong hotel. Anyway, thank you, Fraser. You have seen. Yes. Fraser, thank you very much. Daniel from Calgary, Alberta. This is on Patan, okay? Number four.

Number four. Here at number 10 in America. Dear Patan and Tiger, I just left a screening of Patan, the fifth installment in the YRF Spy Universe. Is that right? Given my enjoyment of RR, I was eager to catch more South Asian cinema.

Patan, however, left much to be desired. My biggest gripe with the film was that all the action bits were lifted directly from better action movies. In the first 30 minutes, themes and sequences from John Wick, Skyfall, The Winter Soldier, and Ghost Protocol are evoked or even ripped off entirely with no attempted innovation or excitement. And when the filmmakers aren't assaulting your senses with overlong and poorly CGI'd set pieces, the film relies heavily on the fading boy's charms of King Khan himself.

I cringed, watching 57-year-old Khan dance around scantily clad women and deliver tacky one liners. His performance lends ironic credence to a gag in the film in which Khan eludes to his retirement before resolving that he should not retire. Derivative, boring, cringe-worthy. But time was disappointing to say the least. I would categorize this as mindless entertainment as he very well may need a lobotomy to actually enjoy it. He didn't like it. OK, well there we go. I mean, I'm a Shorak Khan fan, I have to say.

But then the whole, there was once when Shorah Khan starred in a film and I had written a review of it. And I woke up in the morning, this was when I was still on Twitter before Elon Musk is an idiot who destroyed everything and made the world poorer. I remember that.

And I woke up and overnight I had gained several thousand followers and I thought what on earth happened? It turned out Shorra Khan had tweeted, but it was something that I think, and it was like, wow, you think you know how big a movie superstar is, and then you meet an actual movie superstar, and I said, wow.

So are you forgiving him as a 57 year old dancing around scantily, clad women making tacky one-liners? I mean, it's not the first time. women making tacky one-liners? I mean, it's not the first time. Number three in the UK, number one in the US, at Knock at the Cabin. I'm interested to know whether anyone has got in touch about the rap show because Robbie and I disagreed

about this, Robbie liked this very much, the new M-Light-Sharm Lamp film. I mean, I think M-Light-Sharm Lamp films were a bit hit and miss. Some of them are like I liked old, and I liked glass, but you know, Robbie like this more than I did. Set up is same sex couple with an adopted child are in a cabin. Four people turn up led by Dave Patista say the world's going to end unless one of you

kills one of you. So of the three of you, one of you has to die and has it and they go, I want to we don't believe you. And they go, well, if you don't believe as the apocalypse is going to happen. So it's a kind of, you know, what if Taylor, the unexpected? I didn't think it worked very well. But I thought it reminded me

of a much better film, which is Michael Tolkien's The Rapture, which is the absolute classic, what if this stuff were real film? David, on our YouTube channel, the opening scene in Blade Runner 2049 is almost up there with the opening scene in glorious bars. This is because David Batista is almost up there with the opening scene in glorious bastards. This is because Dave Batista is the person who sets the tone of the way.

I see. Batista truly has a remarkable presence in there. Really is no one like him working in movies. There isn't. Stephen Lilly also on our YouTube channel, I was a big wrestling fan back in the early 2000s, the age of Batista, John Cena and Twilight years of the rock. If you told me at that point that a, all three of them would be box office successes. And B, I would actually utter the words,

Betista is by far the best actor of the three, I'd have laughed. Keep up the good word, Dave. Betista is great and he's really good in glass onion as well. He's very funny in that film. UK number two, number three in the states is avatar way of water. Now here's the thing, when I was off sick, yes, I watched a lot of stuff. Okay, okay. And I watched Avatar Way of Water.

Oh, and I'm here to tell you that you watched it wrong. Okay. First of all, you have to watch it when you're sick. Okay. Secondly, I watched it in three parts. Ah, I watched it in three parts. I watched it in three hourly episodes with a John Wick movie in between lunch. LAUGHTER And I enjoyed it. OK, that's... I have to say it was like, I can't find an hour. There's John Wick. There's another hour.

John Wick, too. Because there's more John Wick on that. All I can say is, it, right, in that case, imagine watching it without the John Wick movies in between and without the toilet breaks but just in one great big head thumping three hours stodger thon I was still surprised even though one of our correspondents appointed it out a couple of weeks ago quite how sort of anti-imperialist it feels and Emplicity, yeah, anti-American imperialism and also how you end up in the words of our correspond on the side of the Viet Cong or

Indigenous folk in general. You know, and I was quite surprised by that. And it's so, it's so bold. It's like, you know, I did also think that the underwater stuff, the underwater world building was so much better than Wakanda movie two. Oh, okay. You're thinking, okay, and I admired that. But you had set the bar so low that I was appreciative of

Everything. Well, in that case, I take that as a compliment. I made the experience better for you Although not as much pressure as watching two John Wick movies during the Really is a great way of what do you tell you? And the UK number one number four in the States is pushing boots to the last wish So let me read something stuff because I wasn't the last one. It was all right Richard in Amsterdam, you should really see Pussie Boots the last wish. It's easily one of the best animated films of the last five years. I reviewed it. Tristan in Japan. Mark seemed to have seen the Oscar's nomination list before seeing the movie and therefore ended up

mostly shrugging it off as quotes not as good as Del Toro's Pinocchio, simply because the two films were put on the same arbitrary list. I think this is an unfair stance to take on Pussy Boots the last wish, especially as Little was mentioned regarding the production and themes of Pussy Boots. Personally, I think the themes of mortality and family handled well, Puss and Goldilocks are two characters who are chasing after what they think it means to live and to be loved respectively and have to learn what living and love really are. That does not make it, I'm just skipping a little bit here. I also think that Pussyboots has a fun energetic score, fantastic animation and a great voice

cast that Mark was a little harsh on. I mean, are you really going to complain about Antonio Banderas Olivia Coleman and Florence Pugh playing off each other? I didn't complain about Antonio Banderas. I said that the voices were good. Seth on YouTube said, Antonio Banderas, I want him to lie next to me on my pillow and whisper sweet nothings in my ear with that voice.

Joining the chorus of people surprised that Mark didn't care for this one. It's not as overtly art with a message as Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio, but it still has a good amount going on thematically. The script is as tight as a drum. The animation is frequently outstanding and the jokes pretty much all hit. Fantastic film, absolutely deserving of its domination. And for my money, an easy pick,

at least over the sea beast Marcel and turning red. And Joanna in Seattle? Better than turning red. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Joanna in Seattle, I really enjoyed Mark's review of Pinocchio last week. Note to the pod producer though, he seemed to do it in place of a review

of Pussin Boots, the last place. I know, Pussin Boots number one. Yeah, well, but a lot of people. Yeah, well that's fine, you know. It's, it's, it's, a of opinions, what makes the world go round. Is that right? Yeah. Thank you very much for all the correspondence.

We welcome all the correspondence. Unless the difference of opinion is delivered by Marjorie Taylor Green, in which case, she's an idiot. Go boy with your head. Correspondence at Kermit and Mayo.com, we would love to hear from you for next week. Now, I guess today, the start of Till, Daniel Deadwiler, who plays Mamie Till Bradley in an extraordinary movie called Till. And Barbara Broccoli, who's producer of the film, one of the producers of the film. Now, when we recorded this earlier in the week, Danielle is in Atlanta, which is a hometown. And Barbara was in New York.

Unfortunately, Barbara, as you're about to hear, was having a whole host of technical difficulties, which is a great shame because the production side of this story is quite interesting. So we did lose her line quite soon into the interview. In fact, she said, look, I'm gonna have to go because I want Daniel to tell the story. So you hear a very, very brief bit with Barbara,

but we're lucky enough to have more time with the fantastic Daniel Deadwiler, and you'll hear the interview with both of them after this clip from Till. When you get down there... Oh, not again, Mama. I've already been a Mississippi. Only one time before, and you started a fight with another little boy. He was picking on me.

You're in the right to stand up for yourself, but that's not what I'm talking about. They have a different set of rules for Negroes down there. Are you listening? Yes. You have to be extra careful with white people. You can't risk looking at them the wrong way. I know.

And that is a clip from The Movie Till. It stars Daniel Deadweiler. I'm delighted to say she's joined us. Also produced for the movie Barbara Broccoli. Has joined us. Hello, Danielle. Hello. Thank you for having me.

Thank you for having us. Thank you. Where are we speaking to you? From where are you? I am presently in Atlanta, Georgia, in the South Eastern United States. And Barbara, thank you very much for joining us. Where are you?

Where are you? Speak to us from. I just landed in New York from London. Okay. All right. So it's bad timing on our behalf. So a poll, a poll, a poll, a just for that. Happy to be talking to you, Simon.

Well, it's an extraordinary film. And Danielle puts in an extraordinary performance of BAFTA nominated best actress, a performance Danielle. Maybe you're in Atlanta. Maybe you're the best place person to tell the story. I know a lot of people have lived with the story for decades. Others will be approaching it for the first time. Could you just introduce us to this film in your own words?

This film is an exploration of the complex emotional journey that Manitiel takes when she supports her son and his independence and travels to Sumna, Mississippi, to visit family. And we learn of his horrible tragic lynching in Mississippi by the hands of a cadre of white men. And we also witness her come to terms with how she wants to fight for justice and her traveling down to Mississippi to confront the space of Southern white supremacy and how she comes out on the other end to a different kind of brilliance and a different kind of motherhood

as a result of the journey. And the story of them it till has been told many ways, Barbara Broccoli, but it hasn't been told like this before. How long have you been trying to get this movie made? Well, the group of producers of which I'm just one of, we've all been working on this for about 18 years. The main producer and the reason that we became involved was Keith Bochamp, who, when he was about 10 years of age, saw the photograph of Emmett Till,

and when his parents explained what happened to him, Keith decided to go on his whole life, go on a journey to try and find justice for Emmett Till. So we encountered Keith about 18 years ago, and he'd made a documentary about Emmett Till. He was very close to Mrs. Till. She was his mentor for eight and a half years. And we have been trying to make this film since then. And in fact, Mamie Till wanted to make the film way back in 1955. So it's actually a 67, almost 68 year journey. Danielle, we've lost Barbara. There was

something about the New York signal. It just wasn't working. So thank you for being patient in Atlanta. So we got a little flavor from Barbara about how long this movie has taken and why it's taken so long. Can you tell us something about how you became this extraordinary woman about becoming Mamie and the process that you went through? Yeah, it's time, right?

It's all about time and patience and the rigor and discipline and and reverence for what you have to explore. They gave 18 years of it, right? And for me, I came into the fold around May, June of 2021. And so I had a good three months of prep, but I dare say a lifetime of prep, too, because I've known about it since I was in elementary school, but the very surface level that we're given, right? And yet, because of my family was introduced to the Southern Christian Leadership Conference,

and we attended the Cascade United Methodist Church when I was a child. And so these institutions are pivotal to the civil rights movement. They also were led by Reverend Dr. Joseph Lowry and Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. who were both obviously deeply impacted by Mamie Teal's choices.

And so those people whom worked with the folks who were integral in my education and volunteerism and activism as a child were just as intimate with Mamie, right, up until, you know, the transition of her from this, you know, realm in 2003. And so I carry all that information from those people into this preparation in the summer of 2021. And to know you and I just really,

deeply, deeply, deeply dug into the crates of everything we possibly could, inclusive of archival images and archival footage, looking at Sumner, Mississippi, looking at Chicago, really getting a feel for the aesthetic of the space and time of Mississippi and Chicago, 1955. We saw images and footage of the space and time of Mississippi and Chicago 1955. We saw images and footage of the courtroom dynamic and mainly walking and navigating this space

which was very, very white and very, very antagonistic. Also her memoir, Death of Innocence, which was co-written, it was a pivotal, a bible of sorts for me, because it is the before and the after of life, like her, her rearing with her mother, her, her difficult birth with Emmett, the relationship she had with Emmett's father, the relationship she had after Emmett's father leading up to be with Jean, the dynamic that she had, that Jean had with Emmett. All of that is definitive in helping to paint a picture of the life they lived.

You've mentioned your director a couple of times, she's phenomenal. The way you approach telling the story, my understanding is she was allowed to tell the story anyway. She told it from your point of view. People might have looked at the certificate in this country, it's a 12-A certificate because you've clearly made a decision to keep the murder of Emmett Till off the screen. Could you just explain a little bit about the thinking behind that way of telling this particular story? Janolia, I think her hand on the script was really

critical in getting to the POV of Mamie of 33-year-old Mamie because Keith talks about having his relationship with her as his mentor, but he didn't know her at 33. He knows the elder woman. He does not know the 33-year-old confused, challenged, horrified woman in the nadir of her life. And so if you're coming from that critical POV, then there are certain things that made me would see and things that she wouldn't. And to be quite honest, nobody saw what happened to Emmett. We saw the ramifications. They did not see what actually happened. So the

choice is a very intentional technical choice because it just makes logical sense if that is the purview that you're coming from. And then because she is a black woman, because she has lived in America, this is a critical care and attention to not show violence because we have witnessed it over and over and over and over and over and continue to witness it over and over again. And yet it's a story that we know still has to be told but there are ways in which we can intentionally lovingly gracefully bring people into this kind of knowledge and experience. It's about not retraumatizing. One, if you could just illustrate a little part of that by talking about one particular scene, the courtroom scene, where you are giving your testimony, we see it, I think it's seven pages of script, if I've remembered that right, it's it's shutting close up.

And I think the original idea was that your director was going to cut and do different shots and take it from different points of view. But at the end of your first take, she said that's it and everyone gave you a round of applause or a standing evasion. Have I got that right or has that been retold wrong? It's close. You messed up the telephone. Okay.

It's close. But the only shift is we did it upwards of six times because what she did see Or and that and was hit with a spirit of intuitive and intuitiveness of a spirit of creative surprise and following that kind of unknown Because of technical issues. She wanted to really like bring people into the fold of the entire environment So be enabling the the audience to stay with the pupils that are telling the story to stay with that body, that mind, that to stay with Mamie, and yet to know, oh, in the background are the 12 jurors. Oh, here are the attorneys. That is who she is engaging. Oh, the judges behind her. Oh, you can just infer that there is an audience,

and it is all white because we've seen it, that is listening to her share this story. And then there's a memento of the ring. And then there is, you know, it's all kinds of beautiful movement that is within the water, but then forcing you to continue to engage with who we're asking you to witness now. We you witnessed these images of Emmett. But now we want you to continue to witness this this

retelling to witness the love and and the shift that happens and how you know it's how the district attorney engages are and then how the defense attorney engages engage yourself. And that's critical. This might sound crass, but I don't mean to be, your face is doing a lot of work. Your eyes are extraordinary. You're telling the whole story and we're seeing it in close-up. And that's astonishing, I thought. You got to look at somebody.

She's imploring the jury to look at her. She's imploring the attorneys to look at it. She's imploring the attorneys who she looks at to look at her to listen to to to understand where she isn't is going through. And they're in your your you're you're inciting the the audience to have a confrontation of sorts with the the aftermath of what it means to to lose to have such deep visceral grief. Yeah, the face is doing a lot of work because there's a tension. She's trying to write the fine line of being respectable

and telling a truth and yet being deeply antagonized by the entire milieu and the attorney, you know? And so she stretched in trying to hold and save face and be as honest as she can be and Fight for justice in this moment and it kind of crumbling and yet being deeply deeply courageous endeavor of love does a role like this Danielle come with a cost. I wonder. Yeah, I wonder whether you know you Deliberately had to sort of look after yourself because what you go through and what we all go through watching this movie with you is traumatic. From an anxious point of view, does that make sense or not?

No, of course it makes sense. It makes total sense. I mean, there is a cost. There's a psychic cost. There's a physical cost and emotional one. I'm a mother to a 13 year old. And at the same time, I, along with everyone else who witnesses this film, or, you know, here's residual conversation about this film,

has to deal with its place in history, its present in history, and what are you going to damn do about it in the aftermath, you know? I have to have those same conversations with my child. That was the stirring thing for me a lot of the time. Oh, my conversation parallels. I might be in a different space. We're seemingly having movement of illegal quality by having the anti-litching bill that was passed in 2022 and seemingly having a progress because of the integration of education in schools. And yet here we are back again with Governor Rondesan just trying to eradicate black and queer lineages from the education of African American history courses. And yet these things are residual.

And yet we lose another, you know, human being, beautiful young man, entire nipples. It's systemic. it's systemic. And so we have to understand that like, yeah, we're constantly dealing with this and it merits a different kind of radical fight. And on that systemic point then, your director, Chanoya Chikou said, just this is just after,

because I mentioned at the beginning of our conversation that you're nominated for a BAFTA best actress. But when you missed out on the Oscar nomination, which seems incredible, Chenoyet said, she messaged, we live in a world and work in industries that are so aggressively committed to upholding whiteness and perpetuating an unabashed misogyny towards blackness. You agree with that, I imagine. That's the system you're talking about. I mean, surely, that's what that is. We've seen, this is the thing. If it existed in a governmental capacity, right?

And it can exist on a societal capacity, be it global or American national, right? Then it has had its residual effects. It is in our quotidian life. It is in our industries. It is a rampant thing. Everyone has to assess and investigate, source out and make more equitable the spaces in which have not been. I mean, how to make Daniel couldn't even attend the ceremony, right? She had to

be in the back. Nobody is absolved of not participating in racism and not knowing that there is a possibility of its lingering affect on the spaces and the institutions that you've created. And you think that's what we're talking about here in the lack of nomination at the Oscars. We're talking about people who perhaps did chose not to see the film. We're talking about Massage in War. Like it comes in all kinds of ways, whether it's director and director, it impacts who we are. They did the critical assessment. I think the question is more intent on people who are living in whiteness,

white people's assessment of what the spaces that they are privileged by are doing. Danielle, we're out of time, but I appreciate you speaking to us very much. And also Barbara, just briefly earlier, and congratulations on the BAFTA nomination. And I hope you win. I hope you get to make a speech, and you can say all that again. Ah, you know what?

I've won. It's a beauty to share this film. And I thank you for having us. Daniel, we appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Daniel Deadweiler and briefly Barbara Broccoli, she's an impressive woman. She is a force of nature. I mean, that's one of the things, I mean, we talked about this in the review, is that because by its nature, Till tries to keep its register, you know,

Because by its nature, till it tries to keep its register, you know, below boiling points, it doesn't show the atrocities, it's a drama that was to engage everybody. And I think one of the reasons that, I mean, it was interesting when, when you know, the Wilder said, I think some of them chose not to see it. And I think it's certainly true that it wasn't widely seen as it should have been. But there is also thing, when you hear her talking passionately about it like that, because what's interesting about the film is that it's, and this is very much, you know, Chukwu's thing, is that it's very much about holding the register back about, you know, understatement. And understatement doesn't play well with awards voters. Yes. It's, you know, but not about retraumatizing.

No, which was, which was, yeah. And so I thought that was absolutely fascinating, but I do think it's true that, you know, there are give me an awards performances and her performance in Till is not one of them. Well, I hope not that it doesn't deserve them, but it's not a performance. It's not Breckling Fraser in the wild. I did say to you, are you going to the bathroom? She said, yep, absolutely. So, let's hope she wins. Yeah. Let's hope she gets to make that speech. Thanks to Daniel Deadweiler. Till is the movie.

Correspondence at Kermit and Mayo.com. Love to hear from you about any of these movies that we're talking about. What else is out? Magic Mike's last dance. I'm a huge Magic Mike fan. So I was really excited. 2012, you know, the original, the Sederberg, Magic Mike, Scried Bar, script by Ric Carlin, inspired, inberg, Magic Mike, Scrib by Rikarolin, inspired, in part by Channing Tatum's Time as a Maelstripper in Tampa, Florida. And it was a resounding hit, Gritty, Feel Good, Romantic, Earthy,

all the things that you want the film to be. Sometime later, 2015, there's the sequel, Magic Mike XXL, not directed by Sodaberg, but still pretty good. I mean, not as good as the original, but had some great set pieces in it, and the dance numbers were really, really good. Now, Magic Mike's last dance. Now, Channing Tatum is back in the lead role.

Sodaberg is back in the director's chair, he carried him with whom Tatum co-directed Dog. You remember, I loved, which I thought was really great. Back on screenplay duties, film picks up, Mike is now a barman. He's doing a charity event gig for a very wealthy woman played by Samhark Pinot. She's called Max. He is serving bar and one of the attendees at the Gala recognizes him.

Here's a clip. What's up bro? Do you have a bucket of sodas? Two buckets of water. I don't know you. You want to skate right? I don't know. No, definitely not.

No. We don't know. We've definitely met. Uh, no. I don't know. Sorry. Don't freak the guy out. I don't know. Holy shit, I got it. You really don't remember? I don't know. Is that my store?

No. You were a cop, right? What's your name? Kim? Oh, yeah, like way back in the day, yeah. So she's playing that little flashback, see? So basically the flashback is that he turns up at the door in a cops outfit and he says, your name and the next thing is he's... Hello! door in a cops outfit and he says, your name and the next thing is he's, hello, he's

hello, he's, and we're back to Colour of Night and all that stuff. So Max, then he is that this is what he did. And she says, oh, you know, I hear that you can provide certain services that will relieve me of my tension. And she pays him a very rocky harala. And she pays him some money. And provides a dance which of course in the Standard channing Tatum ways unbelievably athletic and that's all the stuff. We cannot be there Okay, so you know on board blah blah blah. She then says right I'm gonna pay you a certain amount of money to come with me to London for an undisclosed mission He thinks oh yeah, I'm gonna be like you know like a I'm gonna be her toy or something no no no the undisclosed mission is

She's in the middle of a messy divorce and she owns a theater and the theater is showing a very old-fashioned play and she wants to spice the play up by getting Mike into direct it and therefore throw into it and you go, sorry, pardon. Pardon? So hang on, so magic mic, the thing we all love, the thing we all great, you'll bring it to London, how do we know it's London? Well there's a shot, there's a kind of montage that goes Tower Bridge, Badge Cup, Badge Cup, Bus. And I kind of wondered whether it was deliberately naff, whether it was deliberately the worst, and I think actually it might be a joke about how those montages are terrible. And then it gets to the theater. And the theater is a play about people doing stuffy stuffy stuffy

and magic mic comes in and then says, yeah, no, we don't wanna do that. What happens is you call for a fudger and then it stripping stuff. And I'm sitting there going, I don't believe you've made a bad magic mic movie. That all the people are in place. I love all the people. I love the thing.

I love the setup. I like the dance a minute. How have you managed to spoil this? What meeting did you have when somebody said, I know we take it to London to a failing old, rusty show and we'd, you're going, no, no, that's not what happens. Firstly, you take magic mic out of the thing that makes magic mic interesting, which is that it's a gritty

kind of, you know, it's actually a story about somebody earning a living and somebody having, you know, romantic dreams and all the rest of it. And you put them in a thing in which they're suddenly they're posh, suddenly they're driving around in roles or voices and suddenly they're going to posh restaurants and suddenly go, no, that's not what magic might does. Then there's a joke about a butler who magic mic is trying to do his tie, but he doesn't know how to do his tie.

He's a stripper. He knows how to do his tie. He knows how to put on every item. He could get, so you lose the Saturday night fever thing, which is this is the thing you have that makes something special, the dream, you know, that brilliant bit in Magic Mike XXL when he's doing the woodwork and he suddenly starts doing the dance on the bench.

And it's just that film. Well, you should see them because the first two were great. This is to use a word that I believe you got into the Oxford English dictionary, pants, but not pants in the magic mic pants sense that I want, but just pants. I mean, the theatre scenes are awful to make it worse. The whole film is narrated in this with this really annoying child narration, which is

like saying out loud all the things that you knew from the always implicit. It's literally got a voice over telling you the things that are important on the plus side. Dance numbers are nimble. There's a sort of rainy one. There's a sort of wet, you know, wet thing going on. That's kind of all right. Oh, wet thing. But then a wet thing. It's all rain and there's wet on the floor and they're all sliding around. It's quite poetic. That's dangerous. Yeah. But the thing is, I saw this in the West End and the Magic Mike stage show is on there. So I don't, I was,

I really, I came out annoyed actually. I came out like, I can't believe you messed up Magic Mike because this absolutely kills the magic of Mike. And that's it. No more magic Mike. No more pants, pants, pants. Pants. Pants. Well, this is going to cheer you up now, Mark, because the ads are coming in just a moment.

But first, it's time to step into the laughter lifts, which I think you need. Here we go. Mm-hmm. BELL RINGS Because, Mark, and I'm going to improve your mood. Go on. Went out for a lovely meal on FAMI at the weekend.

Child 3 said, Dad, can I have a lobster tail please? They're the most expensive thing on the menu. Of course I said, one spot at a time, there was a handsome lobster. I could kind of see that coming off for epic tails though. We just sort of spoiled that joke. Chances of Child 3 asking for a lobster tail. Yeah, very small.

Anyway, once the laughter had died down, I said to the waiter, what's the difference between roast beef and pea soup? He said, neither of them are on the menu, sir, this is a seafood restaurant. I said, if you want a tip, you'll play a long sunny gym. I'll ask you once again, what's the difference between roast beef and pea soup? I don't know, sir. What's the difference between roast beef and pea soup?

Anyone can roast beef sunshine. Here's a tenor. Okay, well done. That's it. You got to recover it. By the way, here's a tenor. OK, well done. That's it. You got recovered. By the way, Mark, I guess that evening was our friend Roger, who worships a color between green and blue

on the visible spectrum of light. There we go. In the wavelengths of green and blue, he is a cyanologist. Oh, I see. I see. I see. I mean, it's written down, Joe. It's really.

It's seen as a... Yeah. Anyway, what else have we got still to come as far as your concern? I see, I see, I see. I mean, it's written down, Joe, it's really. It's seen by... Anyway, what else have we got still to come as far as your concern? Blue Jean, which is a big independent awards winner, and women talking, which is a new from Wiserapolli. Back after this, unless you're a Vanguardista, in which case your hair looks great, just like that,

and your service will not be interrupted. Get holiday ready at Real Canadian Superstore. We'll find more legendary ways to save than any other major grocer. Until December 13th, you'll get a free PC turkey when you spend $300 or more. That's right, free only at your Super Holiday Store. Conditions apply to fly for details. Metrolinks and crosslinks are reminding everyone to be careful. As Eglington Cross-town LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert, as trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals, be careful along our tracks and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware,

and stay safe. and stay safe. Okay, more reviews coming up in just a moment. Interesting email from Martin Rousen, who got in cartoonist, daily mirror cartoonist, who has corresponded before. Simon Mark, regarding Mark's tromb so jaunt, did he and the band get to and from the airport via the tunnel under the island? Yes. Which has a ton of abouts like something out of Thunderball. Now that's how to spend your sovereign wealth fund, though in Norway you need one of

those to buy a beer, which is also incredible. Unbelievable. A pizza in a beer. How much? But forget Greenland, says Martin, you should have your eyes on Svalbard by initiating the first long-year-be-end film festival. Plus, there's polar bears, thousands of walruses

and the world's most northerly bust of Lenin in the Russian mining enclave across the fjord from Longby. That's more impressive than the world's most northerly burga king. Why have you come here? We've come to see the most northerly bust of Lenin in the Russian mining enclave. Are you a guardian right?

Yes, I see. OK, that all makes sense. Nothing to say about Avatar the Way of Water as seen, just that you, I think you're like this, OK? Nothing to say about Avatar the Way of Water as just seeing the first film is still at the top of my anti-bucket list. Not things that I want to do before I die, but things I'd rather have done.

No, but things I'd rather die than do. Oh right. Even better. By the way, the last time you read out an email of mine, all sorts of people around the world expressed amazement and wonder, is if I touched the hem of the remnants of passing gods, or miraculous springs had gushed from the earth where your shadows had chanced to fall. Who knew?

Anyway, I think Martin Rosen not roused. I don't want to say roused. Martin Rosen, fantastic cartoonist, occasional contributor and lover of the northerly bust of Lenin. And all round top-look. So Svalbard, I think that's quite, I didn't really know very much about Svalbard until I read about it in his dark materials

in the Philip Pullman, where there's a lot of polar bear action taking place in Svalbard. Martin, thank you, correspondents, at Code of Modern.com. What else have we got to go and see this week? Women talking is the new film by Sarah Polly. It is up for two Academy Awards,

best adapted screenplay and best motion picture of the year. This, it is adapted from the 2018 novel by Miriam Taves, which was itself inspired by horrific real life events that were uncovered in a men and women's community in Bolivia in 2009. Essentially, the story is that in a cloistered religious community, the women have been suffering in the night sexual assaults that are told by the men are either the work of demons or ghosts or just wild female imagination. One night, one of the potential victims sees

one of the attackers coming in through the window and the jig is up. A series of men are then taken off to the police station and the rest of the men go to bail them out. For a very brief period, the women who have been suffering these assaults for a long time, drug assaults, suddenly have a 24 hour, 48 hour period in which they have to decide

what they are going to do. They have three options. They can do nothing. They can stay and fight for change, fight for their own safety within the community, or they can leave. And what happens in the, in the, both the novel and in the film, both called women talking, is which, which are described incidentally in the film and by Miriam Taves as an act of female imagination, is they have to conceive a future.

They have to imagine what they might do. So there's a hay loft which kind of becomes like a makeshift courtroom. And the whole thing plays out like to my mind across between Arthur Miller's play The Crucible and Marlene Gores' electrifying psychodrama, a question of silence. Here is a clip. The film is absolutely star stud. It only has an extraordinary cast, but here is a clip from women talking. I want to stand fight. We won't lose the fight to the men and be forced to forgive them anyway. I want to stand fight too. No one's surprised that you do all you do is fight. Is this really how we are going to decide the fate of all the women in this colony? Just another vote where we put an X next to our position.

I thought we were here to do more than that. You mean talk more about forgiving the men and doing nothing? Everything else is insane, but none of you will listen to reason. Why you here with us? Why you still here with us? That is what you believe. Just leave with the rest of the do nothing women. She is my daughter, and I want her here with us.

It's forgiveness that's forced upon us, true forgiveness. Keep nonsense like that to yourself, please. So the cast includes Grunemara, Judith Havie, Claire Foy, Jessie Buckley, Michelle McLeod, Frances McDormand, I mean, it's an extraordinary... It kind of acts as the turn-up and see in anything, really. Precisely.

And the whole film is essentially the debate about what to do. Now this may sound like it's going to be very staging and very polemical. I've now seen women talking three times and the first time I saw it, I liked it. I thought it was gripping and the fact that the story has its roots and a real story is kind of horrifying but know, horrifying, but also very engaging. Second time I saw it, I thought, actually, this is really good. This is a really good bit of filmmaking from Sarah Polly, who of course made stories we tell, which is a really interesting documentary that sort of reveals itself to be not quite what you think it is. I don't want to give the game away, but it's a film about how artifice and reality can become blurred. The third time

I saw it, I thought, actually this is a masterpiece. And I'll tell you what happened during those changes. The first time I saw it, I was just really impressed by the dialogue, by the fact that they are wrestling with matters of life and death, they are matters of gender, matters of self-determination, of religion, of wrestling with the central idea that they

are faced with an impossible conundrum, which is that in their religion, the only people that can forgive them are the men who they are, might be turning their back on. So you have to forgive them, otherwise you'll be cast out of the Kingdom of Heaven. If you leave the community, when God arrives, how will he know where you are? So there is this complete mismatch between theological philosophy and what's happening at ground level. And yet, they are absolutely determined that what they want is their safety, their religion, which is absolutely part of who they are, and the ability to define the future. But to spite the fact that they've been brought up in a community in which they

cannot read and read or write. So therefore Ben Wischel's character, August who is a school teacher, is brought in to take the minutes of the meeting. Now in the novel, it's his voice, it's the minutes of the meeting are the form of the novel. In the film, the narrator is that role is passed on to her teenage girl talking, recounting the events. And the more I watched it, and bear in mind I've seen it three times, the more I started to think this is a really smart piece of filmmaking. For three main reasons. Firstly, there are flashbacks, but the flashbacks are used to illuminate the discussions, but not to do more than that. And the atrocities are kept off screen.

Secondly, people talking about philosophical ideas may be dry unless the people who are doing that stuff are doing it in a way in which you are reading in their faces and their expressions and their voices and their mannerisms more than what they are saying. So they are saying one thing, but they are also saying another thing at the same time. And the third thing is that there is a very, very understated, but actually brilliant score by Hilda Goodner-Dotto, which I was surprised didn't get Oscar nominated, because for a while variety we're talking about it as a possible winner. It is sparse and it is used sparingly, but it is used rather brilliantly.

I mentioned that it reminded me of a Miley and Garis' question of silence. I was also reminded weirdly enough because the color is desaturated. So in that little clip, which we heard, but also in the studio, we watched it, for a moment I thought it was black and white. So the desaturation is really interesting, and the way in which she uses color and brings it in and takes it out I mean at certain points I was even thinking of like the Wizard of Oz the early scenes of the Wizard of Oz Which is a black and white world which then gives gives way to a color world There is a kind of suggestion that there is that there is and there is a more full color world somewhere out there

But you're not in it yet You know, you may never actually be in it. It may be over the rainbow, which is you know But I really found myself on the third viewing thinking, this is so expertly done that I'm not even thinking about the film making, I'm just thinking about how much I'm drawn into the drum. Now, here's what's interesting, last week I was saying that I thought the whale was stage-y, stage-y, stage-y. I can understand how one might imagine that that was true of women talking, particularly since I myself compared it to a stage play with the author Miller thing. But it isn't. It's profoundly cinematic. It's brilliantly written. It's wonderfully played.

It raises so many intriguing questions, particularly for somebody like me who has wrestled with theological issues in a very cod manner, I'm sure, but it's not exclusive. I mean, it's the whole thing that women talking, oh, well, it's just gonna be a film for women in that case. Absolutely not. It is a film that is about fundamental core issues

of your own ability to determine your life. Yes, of course, it's absolutely about gender and feminism and, but it's not a completely binary film either. There are characters in it who are non-binary. And I just, I think it's a real masterpiece. And I think it's been kind of overlooked somewhat in the same way that Till has. I think it is, I mean, it's a real masterpiece and I think it's been kind of overlooked somewhat in the same way that Till has. I think it is, I mean, it's up for best films, so I haven't been completely overlooked, but I mean, that is something, obviously, but I think it's a really fine piece, but I love you to see it because I really want to know what you think of it. It sounds absolutely intriguing and it does sound as though it's a must watch. I wonder if they, I wonder where the title came from.

The title is a little bit low. No, his women talking is it? Yes, so there is a moment in the novel in which one of the, this says, what's going on? What are you doing there? You know, you're conspiring. No, it's no conspiracy.

It's only women talking. The whole point is it's women talking, which is in itself a revolutionary act. One of the first things they learn to do and they're doing, is they learn to vote. So it's like a kind of the microcosm is into the silence, comes the voices of women. And that's why the type, is that you want me, that's what I'm so sorry, that's why the title is brilliant, because what it says is everything and nothing on the one hand It's women to it's only women talking but it's women talking Stop making a noise my terrible phone. I'm so I'm so apologetic. That's right. I was in an important message

No, okay, it's it's it's the other half who knows that I'm doing this. Oh, she should know better. We're that's not in the appropriate time Then okay, Okay, so that's why it is. It is a woman texting women text. It's the slightly futuristic follow up. Well, I'm intrigued. I am definitely intrigued by that. But why would that have got overlooked? Well, it has I mean, it has been made it is up for best film,

but I think it shouldn't be not for so much more than that. I think I think one of the problems is, you know, obviously it's an ensemble cast. Therefore, you can't pick out any individual cast members. I'm just surprised by the Hill de Goode d'Ossis score not being nominated. I'm sure I can hear it on a regular basis. You can. You can hear it on the college. Yeah, we're so fantastic. But please, six, I want to know what you think. Okay, definitely. And I really apologize for leaving my phone on.

Is it? What's the certificate? It was interesting, is that the way you were describing it tied it in a little bit to Till in terms of the conscious decision to have the atrocities off camera. Yes, yes. But it is a 15 because of the subject matter. Okay. What's on? This is where you email us a voice note about your festival or special screening or you text Mark if you're married to him. And you can pass things on like that. Email yours to correspondentsacoverna.com. And we go with this week. Hello, Simon and Mark. This is James Fahey in Claremont, California, where we are hosting the 22nd annual Common

Good Film Festival. From February 17 to 20, the Common Good Film Festival will be showing high quality cinema from around the world that celebrates common sense, common decency, and the common good. Anyone concerned with the state of the world can join us at the Claremont Lemley cinema from February 17-20 for a weekend of enlightenment, reassurance and inspiration. Hello Mark and Simon, Peter Blunden here and I want to let all the listeners know about the third annual Rumpford Horror Film Festival. It takes place over the 23rd to the 26th of February at the premier cinema in Rumpford. As well as short and feature films from around the world, we have horror-related merch and art

stalls plus two very special guests this year, Italian horror-roar tea, Sylvia Colatina and Giovanni Lombardo Redic and for information on all the line-up antickets can be found at rumpfordhorrorfestival.com. So we had that sounds fantastic. James Fahey and then Paul Blunden, letting us know about first of all, the common good festival and then the romford horror festival, horror film festival.

And if you'd like to do a watch on for a send us your audio trailer, 20 seconds thereabouts. From wherever you are in the world, correspondents at kermitomeo.com. I've just read the text that came in, you know what it said? It's the woman texting. Yeah, it said, arrived safely in Exeter.

So it was literally just telling me because she knows that I worry otherwise. Very good. So there is, and the fault is mine because I shouldn't have had my phone turned on. Well, we're not complaining, not complaining. So there's another movie to go and see. Yes, so I'm already going to see a couple of them, but now I'm going to, yes, this is your home. We're not complaining. So there's another movie to go and see. Yes.

Well, I'm already going to see a couple of them, but now I'm going to... Yes, you've been... Okay, so Blue Jean, which is a very powerful drama set in the late 80s around the time of section 20. Do you remember section 28? Of course I do, yes. No, I mean, sorry, I just slightly pre-torture a bit. So section 28 was legislation which attempted to ban the promotion of homosexuality

by local councils finally repealed, I think at the early part of this century. This is the debut feature from Georgia Oakley, who is up for a BAFTA for outstanding British debut along with her producer, Ellen Seifra. The film was nominated for Umpteen Biffers, and it won four, including, best lead performance for Rosie McEwan.

She plays sports teacher Jean, who tries to keep her private life separate from work because she knows that she may endanger her job if it's discovered that she's in the same sex relationship. Her girlfriend, Viv, played by Carrie Hayes, who won best supporting dramas of the Biffers. Excuse me, is more forthright. Can't understand her partner's embarrassment about her sexuality. He says, look, you should just be upfront about it. Then Jean realizes that one of her students,

Lois, played by Lisa Halliday, is being bullied and is being called a lesbian by her classmates. And she feels that she should support her. But when Lois starts turning up at the same clubs that she frequents, she feels that a line has been crossed. And she has to tell her, you need to stay away, his equipment. Hey! What are you doing?

You need to leave. Why? You know why. Do whatever you want. Wherever you want. But not here, okay. Why do you care so much? You're 15, you shouldn't even be in here.

So what? Haven't told anyone how to. Hey! Go. Otherwise you're off? Hey! What? Go. Otherwise, you're off the team. What? A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A- which I love and of course he's collected to Matilda by the same director. This is one of those films that takes you right back to a grim period in relatively modern

recent history, certainly in terms of the legislative. I remember the 1980s was the time when James Anderton, who was the chief police constable of Manchester, was declaring quite openly that anyone afflicted by AIDS was swirling in a cesspit of their own making. I mean, this was a time of repression, the likes of which one would shudder to think about. And yet, it gets the textures of that period just right in a way which is vivacious and, you know,

engrossing, so the tunes are right, the chords are right, the physical starts are right. And like that, I was also thinking of it's a synod relation to this as well. It reminds you that light and dark coexisted absolutely side by side. The performances are really, really terrific. I mean, like really genuinely terrific. Across the board, you think this is an ensemble that are all embodying their roles. So at no point do I think, oh, I don't believe in that character, I don't believe in that character. What happens is I look at the screen, I think all those characters are the people that they're embodying. And then the course of the narrative, which is to do with kind of, I mean,

this connects to women talking because it's to do with self-actualization, self-realisation and becoming the person that you that you always know knew you are, but you were kind of backing away from. And it's, you know, it's a coming of age story, but it's also a political story, but it's actually primarily a very personal sort of love story, you know, it's a, the couple are together and then something breaks them apart and you can't see a way out of it. It's tender and yet it's kind of, you know, got rough edges, which I really like. And it's kind of thrilling. I mean, you look at this and you think, this is the kind

of exciting, edgy, independent movie that we should be celebrating right now. And it's, I think it's great. I really hope it finds an audience in cinemas because it really deserves to. It's called Blue Jean and it's terrific. Now that is the end of take one. Obviously if you're a subscriber, take two has already arrived production management general all round stuff, a Lily Hamley, cameras Teddy Riley, videos, Ryan Amira Studio, engineer Josh Gibbs, a guest researcher, Sophie Evann,

Flynn Rodham was the assistant producer and guest booker. Johnny Socials was on the socials, Hannah Barbera was the producer interestingly. Simon Paul was the red actor, Mark, what is your movie of the week? To double bill, okay? Women talking and blue gene. So blue gene is out there with women talking.

It's really good. Thank you for listening. Our extra takes with bonus review, bunch of recommendations and even more stuff about the movies. And cinema adjacent television has already arrived in your inbox. Inbox. In your pitch in hole. Nobody has an inbox anymore. In your pitching hole.

Also Ben Baby Smith and Sasha with your Tuesday for Shrink the Box. Anyway, they're talking about Beth Harmon from the Queen's Gambit, which you can hear more of in our extra takes. You can. I mean, this is so interconnected. It's wonderful. Along with, and there's also an extra review of Titanic 25th anniversary. So looking forward to that already, correspondents at carbonamer.com.

We'll talk to you next week. So, looking forward to that already, correspondents at CoBinAmer.com will talk to you next week.