Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Denis Villeneuve & Hans Zimmer, Dune: Part Two, Red Island & Lisa Frankenstein

Episode Date: March 1, 2024

This week, acclaimed director Denis Villeneuve and renowned composer Hans Zimmer join Simon for a chat about their hotly-anticipated project, ‘Dune: Part Two’ - the next chapter in their adaptation of Frank Herbert’s legendary sci-fi saga.  Mark also gives his take on the film, as well as reviewing ‘Four Daughters’, Kaouther Ben Hania’s Oscar-nominated documentary, which mixes fact and fiction to tell the story of Olfa Hamrouni, a Tunisian woman whose two eldest daughters were radicalized by Islamic extremists; and ‘Lisa Frankenstein’, a Diablo Cody-penned comedy about a misunderstood teenager and a reanimated Victorian corpse who embark on a murderous – and romantic – journey together.   Plus, Mark and Simon tell us about the exciting cinematic events happening around the country.    Timecodes (relevant only for the Vanguard - who are also ad-free!):  08:39 Four Daughters review  22:19 Box Office Top 10   34:33 Denis Villeneuve and Hans Zimmer interview  49:31 Dune: Part Two review  01:00:13 Laughter Lift   01:02:44 Lisa Frankenstein review   01:08:38 What’s On   You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo   EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee!  A Sony Music Entertainment production.     Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts    To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail]  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Well, hello there. Simon and Mark here to tell you about Indeed. Yes, Indeed is driven by the search for better. But when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search. Match with Indeed. If you need to hire, then you need Indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors according to Indeed data. And if you're busy watching all of this week's film recommendations and you have no time, then you can use Indeed for scheduling, screening and messaging so you can connect with candidates faster. But Indeed doesn't just help you hire faster. 75% of employers claim Indeed delivers the highest quality matches compared to other online job sites. Leveraging over 140 million qualifications and preferences every day,

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That's Indeed.com slash Kermode Mayo terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed. Indeed. We will. We will. You're doing Queen. You're doing Queen.

You're doing Queen. You're doing Queen. You're doing Queen. You're doing Queen. You're doing Queen. You're doing Queen. You're doing Queen. You're doing Queen. I was doing Bohemian Rhapsody. I've got this idea. You weren't. You were doing We Will Rock You. You were going We Will Rock You. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But the film, Bohemian Rhapsody, because as I was then, I was then just uncannily recreating the scene in which Brian May goes, I've got this idea for a song in which the audience are part of the song. I know. Let's try. Welcome. Thank you, Jim. That's very good. I'm just going to point people in a particular direction. I've always been a big fan of John Stuart. Have we started? We have. Yeah, yeah, it's all part of the thing. You've always been a big fan of John Stuart.

And in fact, he's been a guest on one of the early incarnations of the show because he directed a movie. One of the things that he did when he came off the Daily Show is he directed a film which was about electoral nonsense in America, which is very timely. Anyway, now he's back on The Daily Show and he's doing like one show a week. That's Mondays. So I just watched him just last night. Right. Okay. Now, in which case, and I think this was in the same show because these clips came up, he, in one show he did one, an incredible 15 minute about Israel-Palestine Gaza.

Yeah, that was last night. And an obit for his dog. I haven't seen the obit for the dog. Okay, fine. Well, if you look for it, you will definitely find it. Right. But why it was interesting, just from a broadcasting point of view, is the Israel Palestine section,

which of course so many people are gonna go, oh, I don't think I don't think I thought it was inspired. Yeah, it was inspired. Yeah, genius. Genuinely entertaining and funny and also- Horrifying. Siterical and horrifying. All of those things.

And he was totally in charge. He also does, I think it's in the same show, a two minute tribute to his dog, his family dog who died and he could not do it. It's the most moving thing. It is impossible to watch. Certainly don't watch it in company. Watch it on your own.

And even if you're not a dog owner, you will find it unbearable. Where do you watch it? Cause I just see it on YouTube in which it's cut up. So I've seen the opening monologue. Where do you watch it? Do you watch it on Peacock or something? No, no, it was, this is a, this is a clip on Twitter.

On YouTube? No, I don't find, okay, fine. So the Palestine one is long enough that you have to go to YouTube for watching. 13 minutes, yeah. But the tribute to his dog is like two and a half minutes. So that is contained. But it is genuine. You know how we've struggled in the past, you know, to read an email. But it just is incredible. He is such a, the king of everything. And then he has to do this personal thing

about his dog who died and he just can't do it. He has this great section where he said, my dog managed to do what the Taliban didn't do and scared Malala. So they have this clip where Malala is walking down the corridor. John Stuart's dog comes up and she's terrified of this dog and runs away. The Taliban couldn't do it but John Stuart's dog managed to do it. Anyway, it's just fantastic and I would encourage people

to have a look just to look at both actually and just think, okay, this is really class one of the very few things I miss about not being on or X as Elon Dumbass, I don't call it that whatever. Um is I used to really enjoy Stephen King's tweets about Molly the thing of evil, which is his dog and he puts these pictures up of Molly the thing of evil looking like the least evil thing you've ever seen in your entire life. And I kind of felt that I got to know Molly and now that I'm not on that Twitter,

I feel that I've lost a friend. So what are you reviewing a little later on in this pod? It's a very, very packed show. I'm going to be reviewing Lisa Frankenstein, Four Daughters and Dune Part Two, which you may have heard of. Yes, and we'll be speaking to director Denis Villeneuve and composer Hans Zimmer. I don't think I've ever done, in fact, I'm 100% certain I've never done a director-composer combo.

Because we often get director and actor or two actors, but to have a composer and a director together. But it works perfectly and you'll see why they've been paired a bit later on. I've listened to the interview, it's a great interview. I'm disappointed that you didn't bring up Hans' days in Buggles. I did, but that was earlier. I'll tell you more about it. Oh, right, did you actually?

Yes. Oh, great, okay, fine. In our extra takes section, bonus review of... Red Island or Lille Rouge. Plot Smash, that thing. One Frame Back is the films of Denis Villeneuve, and you should know that you can access all of this nonsense via Apple Podcast, or head to extratakes.com

for non-fruit related devices. As ever, if you are already a Vanguard Easter, we shall all cure. I've decided to do that in a late night radio voice. We salute you. That sounded as though you were trying to be like a psychotic murderer. No, it was a... All right. Gudjan Heldersen says...

Says the host of Greatest Hits Radio. Gudjan Heldersen says, dear Thorey and Goa, I'm just going to go for it here. Medium term listener, since 2015. I always enjoy your Icelandic pronunciation. As a follow up to previous discussion on bad or at least polarizing food, I thought I'd give you a taste of what we in Iceland have been eating for the past few weeks. My experience of Icelandic food on two visits

is that it stinks and is awful. And so, ströming is not Icelandic. No, so ströming is not Swedish. Swedish, right. But they're all part of the Great Scandi project. The Great Scandi Dutch. Yeah, that's right. Exactly.

During the old Norse month of Thori, which runs from late January to late February, Icelanders toast the old gods in what is called Thorobloat. Not promising to… Thorobloat is it? A midwinter feast. Feasts are held at various times all around the country. Thorobloat. Yes.

Let's all celebrate it. It's our new favourite festival. During these parties, we drink copious amounts of brenivin, which is burning wine. Burning wine? Yeah, that's what it means. Iceland's signature highly alcoholic beverage. Guests also partake of what is called poromatur, or Thoris food. Actually, it'll be Thoromatur. A vast array of preserved food, good and also decidedly not good. The menu is heavy on smoked, salted, dried, pickled and fermented meats. You must have some fermented shark. This is aimed at us. Sour Rams testicles go nicely with

burning wine. Sinched sheep's heads are a delicacy, along with pieces of singed sheep's heads pressed into a gelatinous loaf. Whale blubber is popular and finally some blood pudding. This is like, where's the worst place Mark could be between January and February? This isn't a feast. This is the aftermath of a forest fire. It's a horror movie. For those who like their food smoked, there is hanguit or hanged meat, which is a savory smoked lamb.

Dried fish is a very popular snack for guests of all ages. Dried fish is fine. But just to be clear, this is a tradition that we Icelanders hold on to, not because all of us love this kind of food. This is more to keep us in touch with our history and the old ways of preserving and storing food. Also, it's a great reason to throw parties. Hello to Jason down with extremists.

Just to be clear, all Icelanders definitely do not believe in elves. This myth has to be done away with as soon as possible. Gudjian, thank you very much indeed for the email. Genuinely fascinating. I never want to have anything to do with Thoroblote. I appreciate that you need to stay in touch with your traditions and all that kind of stuff. But there wasn't much in your description of what you had to go through that made me thought,

oh, we must go over between January and February. No, and there was plenty in that that made me think we mustn't go anywhere near it ever. Well, in the summer. It was the gelatinous pressed head. Singed sheep's head pressed into gelatinous loaf. And fried sour testicles. Yeah, that was sour rams, testicles,

which go very nicely with burning. Burning wine sounds at least. Mind you, alcohol is so expensive in Iceland because they tax it out of all existence that that must be a very expensive period. Anyway, thank you very much. Correspondents at codermayer.com. What is out?

What's exciting? Four Daughters, which is a strange blend of documentary and drama from Tunisian filmmaker Kaua Tubenanyah, who made Beauty and the Dogs and the Man is Sold His Skin. The latter of those was, I think, nominated for Best International Feature. This is nominated for Best Documentary at the At the Fourth Coming Oscars. Let me just check that I am right on that. Yes, it is nominated for Best Documentary at the Fourth Coming Osc Yes, it is nominated for best documentary at the forthcoming Oscars, which is happening very soon.

And we've got a very special podcast coming up about that, haven't we? I'm just throwing ahead. Yes, absolutely. Look out for things dropping. Okay. It's a French, not Sam Rapp's testicles. I don't mean that kind of drop. I mean a pod drop. So this is a French, Tunisian, German,

Saudi Arabian co-production, one of Cesar for best doc, originally known as a Ulfas daughters. We meet Ulas, who is a Genizian mother of four daughters, and we learn that at some point two of those daughters, the older two, disappeared. The film doesn't initially tell us how, but many will know the news story of Ulfahamrouni, which made headlines in 2016 when she spoke out against the Tunisian authorities for not preventing the radicalization by Daesh of her two daughters. So although the film withholds this information at the beginning, if you're going to see the film,

the chances are you probably know something about the story. I should say that I didn't, because I just, I went into it not knowing what it was at all. Then I realized that I had read about this. So the filmmaker asks the family to tell their story and she brings in actresses to fill the spaces in that story. So there is a combination of drama and documentary. We're gonna play a clip.

Obviously the clip is subtitled and afterwards I'll tell you what was said in the clip because it is relevant to the rest of the review. Have a look. So essentially, just to recap, and you saw that with the subtitles, what we hear in that trailer is that they are going to bring in two actresses to play the two daughters who we are told have disappeared. And how they describe it is devoured by the wolf. Devoured by the wolf. And we are also told that, all for the mother, she will play herself, but there will also be an actress who is brought in to play her during scenes which are too disturbing. So it's a very intriguing setup. And what then happens is that the story

is told of this family and we see the two actors working from photographs and recollections and the stories that are told by the rest of the family in order to, as I said, fill the absences in that space. We see a dramatization of Ulf's loveless marriage, actually very, very oddly amusing recreation of her wedding night in which she's not having anything of the husband at all. And there's this whole thing about having to be a bloodied sheet, you know, in order to prove that marriage has been consummated. And she arrives at the bloodied sheet by punching him in the mouth. So, she, I mean, she's a force to be reckoned with.

We hear about another partner, we hear about his abusive relationship with the family. We see the two remaining daughters who are really, clearly intelligent, free thinking, smart, you know, very, very imposing people, recollecting how much they loved their sisters and how their sisters became radicalized. And we see reconstructions of an encounter with the police in which the police are told, look, these people are being radicalized. You have to do something about it.

And the police basically say, well, we can't do anything about it. So on the one hand, it's a kind of heartbreaking story of families being torn apart by hardline religious dogma. And incidentally, I should say that obviously, the dogma here is, you know, Daesh Islamic State dogma. I saw this weirdly enough, pretty much back to back with another thing that I saw about the lunatic, well actually, weirdly enough, it was the John Stuart thing that you were talking about in which there was that clip of the lunatic Christian nationalist doing the, you know, we want to bring about Armageddon and the blood will flow right up to the bridles of the horses.

I love that hardcore dogma. Yeah. And it's so, you know, let's be honest, hardcore religious lunatic dogma in any form, whatsoever, a belief in a specific knowledge of God is a terrible thing, sir, a terrible thing indeed. And the form is unsettling because you watch it thinking, okay, which bits of dramatize, which bits of there's one moment when they're in a certain scene, and an actor says, I need to stop, I need to stop, we need to have a discussion about this, what he, you know, off camera. And you're thinking, is that actually real or is that I was thinking of this." He and I, you know, off-camera. And you're thinking, is that actually real or is that...

I was thinking of the work of people like... You know, there was that... Well, there's several documentary makers who've brought in drama, which means you're constantly questioning. But I was wondering what is the role of the dramatization. And I think, I may not be right, this is what I think. I think it's to do with the idea that people are always playing roles, they're portraying characters, they're getting into character,

they are becoming things, because one of the things this is about is about people becoming somebody else as a result of a kind of indoctrination. And I was also thinking of if you compare this to, for example, Joshua Oppenheimer's brilliant documentary, The Act of Killing, in which the whole act of restaging trauma, actually acting it out, dramatizing trauma, somehow proves the key to unlocking it. The two daughters who were with Ulfa are a remarkable company. I mean, really, really remarkable company. I would almost say watch the documentary because a couple of hours spent in their company is worth the price of admission.

But this is a very adventurous and I think very ambitious. It doesn't all work, but even when it doesn't work, the uncertainty is, I think, is really important. And you do come out of it asking questions about how these dynamics worked and how it is that people's minds can be poisoned by such clearly pernicious, extremist dogma. And it's called Four Daughters. It's called Four Daughters. I said the original title when it was originally released was Ulf's Daughters, but here it

is Four Daughters. And it's up for best documentary at the Oscars, which are a week or so. Very soon. Yeah. Still to come, Mark's going to be reviewing... Lisa Frankenstein, which is the new film from screenwriter Diablo Cody and Dune Part 2. And because of Dune Part 2, we will be speaking to Denis Villeneuve and Hans Zimmer. Now...

Denis Ubi-Dou. Wise, wise words of which Mark and I we will be speaking to Denis Villeneuve and Hans Zimmer. Now, Denis Ooby-Doo. Wise, wise words in which Mark and I in alternating weeks have to guess the artist's and terrible song during the break. OK. So we'll be back before you can say... A Gucci Shoe Tree, a year's supply of antibiotics, a personally autographed picture of Randy Mantooth and Bob Dylan's new unlisted phone number. Mark doesn't it seem like everyone is either starting a side hustle or becoming their own

boss? Well, now that you mention it, yes, it does seem like that Simon. And you know what they're hearing a lot? Why, it's the sound of a cash register doing that kaching noise. In other words, it's the sound of another sale on Shopify, the all-in-one commerce platform to start, run and grow your business. Shopify is the commerce platform revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide. Whether you're selling herringbone jackets or rare copies of the Exorcist on DVD,

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Really? Yes. This episode is brought to you by the good folks at NordVPN. Mark, would you say that AI has been one of the hot topics of the last 12 months or so? I would indeed say that, has been one of the hot topics of the last 12 months? I would indeed say that, Simon. We've had writers and actors striking over the potential misuses of AI. We've had many films exploring the topic, including Mission Impossible Dead

Reckoning Part 1 and The Creator, among others. We have. And although technological advancements bring with them exciting things, they also open the door to cybercrime. Yes. And with all these technological improvements, cybercrime will become more accessible to the average criminal and will become more frequent. And I've said it once and I'll say it again, this is why NordVPN is so important. With one click on the NordVPN app, you are protected, meaning that you don't have to be tech savvy.

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So just a reminder, although this is slightly nuts if you're Van Codd Easter because you just heard it, you don't need to be reminded. But for those who've had some advertising copy, the wise, wise words are... And I'm going to give you the full quote now, okay? Okay. This is going to take about 30 seconds. All right. Go ahead.

A Gucci shoe tree, a year supply of antibiotics, a personal autograph picture of Randy Mantooth and Bob Dylan's new unlisted phone number, Rosemary's Baby, a new Matador, a new Mastadon, a Maverick, a Mustang, a Montego, a Merc Montclair, a Mark IV, a Meteor, a Mercedes, an MG, or a Malibu, or a Mort Moriarty, a Maserati, a Mack Truck, a Mazda, a new Monza, or a Moped, a Winnebago. Hell, we're giving away Winnebago as we've got to heard of them. Or how about a McCulloch chainsaw, a Las Vegas wedding, a Mexican divorce, a solid gold Carbosutra coffee pot, or a baby's arm holding an apple. See, the thing is you've changed, so that's a very interesting, I like a list song anyway. But the whole point is that they're supposed to be kind of cheesy and embarrassing. I know, but I just thought I had so much fun.

I've been playing this song over and over again, and I just wanted to just do that. Is it fetus on my breath? No, but I suppose generically you're in the right. Go on. It's what do you want from life by the tubes? I don't know. No idea. No, but I suppose generically you're in the right. You're on. It's what do you want from life by the tubes? I don't know. I had no idea. Really?

No. So, but you have distorted that it's supposed to be cheesy and embarrassing lyrics. That's the point of reading them out. Yeah, but the point is the cheesy ones were at the beginning because it was, you know, a Gucci shoot. Yeah, well, that's right He is a play of antibiotics. Bob Dylan's new on this did phone number. Anyway, what do you want from life? So we inspired their live album. What do you want from life?

Are we changing the story? So it's only a brilliant story. No, because we haven't got time. I'll be very quick. No, you won't. I would very, very quick. We won't be. Don't touch me there, which was the Hube's, the, the tubes big, you know,

Jack Nitchie hit was co-written by Ron Nagel, the ceramicist Ron Nagel, whom the Good Lady ceramicist, her indoors, admires very much, who was also responsible for the sound effects on the Exorcist. Thank you very much. That was interesting and short. It wasn't, and it was. So I would just say that next week we'll be returning to the origin of this feature, which is to find cheesy and embarrassing lyrics, not just lyrics that you like, which is an entire different feature. Anyway, last week, and we have been inundated, because I did a Jermaine Stewart, we don't have to get our clothes off.

So here is just a tiny fraction of what we've received. Mark and Simon. This is from Matt and Deb in Macclesfield. My wife is a brewer of homemade wines, so that's Deb. Oh, right. And I'm guessing you can already see where this is going. Oh, this is just fine. Over the years, she has made a number of interesting

and potent home brews, including Seville Orange, Pineapple, and past Nipoloroso Sherry Wine, to name some of the highlights. Not only has she made sweet cherry wine, but I had in fact opened a small bottle of said beverage and was happily working my way through it whilst listening to your latest podcast. I almost spat out my mouth full of sweet, delicious and quite strong cherry wine when you got to the part about, no one drinks cherry wine. And we simply had to email in, love the show, Steve, extremely long-term listeners,

Matt and Debbie McAusfield. P.S. we can remember listening all the way back to the origin of the dilemma in joke. That's how long we'd be listening. Wow. Michael in Berlin, many years ago I lived on the same street in Berlin as Leideke, a family distillery founded in 1877. When they were sold and indeed still sell fruit wines including blackberry, blueberry, and cherry. So that's Laideka in Berlin. Richard, did Dominic... There is literally a slew of these.

Did not... Did not... Did do Ron Ron? Did do do do do da da da. Sorry. Did Dominicci. Thank you Richard. I can't believe neither of you have ever been tempted by this popular mainstay of South London news agents. Julian Mills, Tumbridge Wells via Pembrokeshire, but with a heart for Cornwall and Manhattan. I was shocked, I tell you. Shocked? Shocked to hear your lack of knowledge on Cherry Wine. After being introduced to it by my mother, I always get a four pack of Cherry Bee for

Christmas. It's not Father Bean's and a nice Chianti, but it hits the spot nicely. Kieran in Bristol, with my wonderful partner slash church sponsor 36 weeks pregnant and considering having your delightful witterings on in the background to assist in trying to create a calm atmosphere when the time arrives, I've been gearing up for writing in. After weeks of thinking what else I could contribute, Simon suddenly confidently proclaimed, none of the listenership will have drunk cherry wine on possibly the first occasion I met said partners mom and stepdad. The latter

told us a hilarious story from his teenage years. When he turned up at a house party with nothing but a bottle of cherry wine, he hadn't had it before. As I recall, it was just what he could get at the time. The next day, whilst on a bus, somebody did not recognize at all said to him, you haven't a good time last night. Needless to say, he could not remember much of the night before and hadn't drunk cherry wine

in the roughly 50 years since. The minute we were in the car to head home, I turned to my partner and said, that's Derek's birthday present sorted. He was absolutely delighted with the present, and we tried some as well. I can confirm it is extremely sweet. Effectively, a dessert wine, I'm sticking with a fantastic local

craft beer. Have fantastic to talk about. Jermaine Stewart and then get a slew of emails from people in the process of consuming a non-existent drink. On the basis of those recollections, when he says, you know know we don't have to take our clothes off to have a good time We could dance and party all night and drink some cherry wine It sounds to me like they drink some cherry wine and they would end up getting their clothes off And then just not remembering it in the morning. Can you not play with your mic? Oh, why thank you?

Sorry because it was rumbling. I'm sorry also fm by steely dan worry Worry the bottle mama. It's grapefruit wine. Now that's something I don't want to try. Yeah. How do you even make grapefruit wine? With fermented grapefruit, I imagine. So, were you asked? So, I'm imagining that's the answer.

Box Office Top 10. From ComScore Movies. We really like ComScore Movies. Thank you, ComScore, for providing us with the top 10 at 46 memory Which I think is a very interesting film great performance by Jessica Chastain. I believe that you interviewed Jessica Chastain for the The finance gambling thing a while ago, which was up was up Some awards content and then got overlooked but her performance in this is is really good It's a very very strange drama about two people,

both of whom are considered to be unable to run their own lives by those around them. And it's got lots of twists and turns. And I thought it was very well done. Was it Molly's game? Molly's game. That's right. And number 44, Shashana. Which I think both you and I liked.

And we think Michael Winterbottom was talking about it very well And I think the triumph of it is that if you know nothing about the the setting and the period of the politics You can still follow it, but it doesn't ever feel polemical He kept saying that it was essentially a romance a romance across political divides number 13 Perfect days which I liked not quite as much as other people. I know some people have really kind of thought it was perfect. I thought it was charming.

I remember Lars von Trier once said this thing about, you know, you always need the astringency in something, you know, which has got double whipped cream. Anyway, it's good and it's got a lovely central performance, but I don't think it's a masterpiece. Kevin420 on YouTube. Is he a bot, do you think? Anyway, a really special film, just wonderful really. One of Vendor's greatest and one of my favourites of 2023. For a film with no plot, it is always involving and touching. Within it, I located the serenity and vibrancy of life Vendor strives for that anyone can attain with a calm dignity and a steady

constitution. Well that's a very fine review. And the Oliver also on YouTube if you sit through the end credits you will discover the Japanese word koma rabi. It roughly translates to the scattered sunlight that filters through a canopy of leaves a motif that is not only literal in the film, but also I think perfectly sums it up. The whole story, like the sunlight, is there, but the viewer will never get to see it or experience it all. This is not a film that will burn you, but you will feel it's warmth, nevertheless. Komorebi, less a word than a feeling.

Write it down. You'll probably never use it, but it's good to know it exists. There are lovely words in Japanese for which there is no English language equivalent. But there is one I cited a few weeks ago, which means the anxiety that is created by the knowledge that the universe is endlessly expanding. Sounds like it's going to go into a Monty Python song sung by Eric Hyde. Expanding and expanding. Number 10 into the 10, then it's Mean Girls.

Again, just done very well. So this is now in its sixth week in the top 10. Amazing for something that was going to go straight to video. Nine here, 21 in the States. Straight to streaming. Straight to video was, of course, from the previous century. I'm sorry. A zone of interest.

Matthew Jones in County Westmeath in Ireland. In any great film, the first and last shots tell a complete story when placed side by side. This approach to visual storytelling is exemplified in Jonathan Glazer's much-lorded Holocaust drama, The Zone of Interest. We open on Idil. Rudolf Hirst, the Auschwitz Commandant at the Story Centre, is flanked by family and facing away from us, a riverside picnic, half-dressed swimmers fresh out of the water, blue sky, golden sunshine. By contrast, we end in oppression.

Hirst stands alone. Instead of an endless sky stretching above him, he is boxed inside and now faces us, staring past the camera, a corridor descending into darkness spotlights his solitude emphasising his single silhouette in an otherwise empty frame. However, you choose to interpret these bookends, this dichotomy is one of the many reasons why Glazer's latest feature has left such a lasting impression on me, compelling me to write into your show for the first time in almost five years. Matthew, thank you. I mean, it's a very fine film. It was very good interview with Jonathan Glazer.

And I thought the most interesting thing about that interview was when he was talking about the night vision sequences and the glimmer of light. I need to go back, actually. I didn't think I would want to go back and watch it again. But I think now knowing what those are. Yes, knowing the night vision and why it was there and who that woman represents,

seems to be knowledge that you should have before you go to the film. Number eight here is The Iron Claw. A story of an apparently cursed wrestling family. It's a true story, which I didn't know before with a great performance by Zac Efron, but actually very good performance by the whole cast. But I thought it was really interesting

and I have no interest in resting at all. The iron claw refers to the sort of signature move of the father, but actually really what it's about is the iron claw that the father casts over the whole family and the way in which that then goes through generations. Number seven here and number seven in the States is Wonka starring Paul the Trades. So we are now going to have the interesting thing, which is that next week, if Wonka starring Paul Atreides. Yeah. So we are now going to have the interesting thing, which is that next week, if Wonka now, and it's 12 week is at number seven, Timothy Chalamet is going to, in an ideal world, Wonka would drop down three paces so that Dune Part Two is number one next week and Wonka is

number 10, so that Timothy Chalamet bookends the top 10. That would be nice. Well, we'll see if it happens. Argyle is at 6. Which I enjoyed and yesterday I had yet another conversation with somebody who said, oh yes, you're the person that liked Argyle and I said there are more of us than you think. Well clearly it's at number 6 and at number 6 in the States as well. Madame Web is at number 5. Which is, I mean, you know, disappointingly rubbish. I didn't take much pleasure in it being disappointingly rubbish. It was just disappointingly rubbish. I didn't take much pleasure in it being disappointingly rubbish.

It was just disappointingly rubbish. But I do think that we have now, this year there is a kind of end game here, which is, come on, it now looks like these films are being made by people that just don't care. I don't mean the director and the writer incidentally. I mean the studios and the production line that's causing them to carry on.

There's no need, there's no need. David from Amadeen, I decided to take a gamble that the critics and my own initial impressions from the trailer were too harsh. They would. So I went to watch Madame Webb. I have to say that yes, both I and the critics were too harsh.

Don't get me wrong, it's not a great movie, Bernie's stretch of the imagination, but it's okay, popcorn fodder. Main failings are in the writing, the direction and creative decisions, but the main issue is the level of acting from Dakota Johnson and Sidney Sweeney. Having seen them act so much better in other projects, it was jarring to see them both essentially phone in performances that flatter than a glass of soda left to sit for a month. Will

I be watching it again? Maybe when this hits a streaming service or a video. I have access to, but I won't return to my regular world of Sydney for a second viewing. Thanks again for being, you know, entertaining and informative. Okay, that's interesting because I think that the things that it has going for it are, I think, to Koti Johnson's performance is actually one of the best things about it. The script is terrible. The script is terrible. The direction it's hard to know because I get that it looks like a film that's been beaten

out of shape in post-production. So it's hard to know what the direction ever looked like and the special effects are terrible. The direction it's hard to know because I get that it looks like a film that's been beaten out of shape in post-production, so it's hard to know what the direction ever looks like and the special effects are terrible. Dan says, I am by no means a Mademois fan. In fact, I'm also exhausted by Sony's lazy filmmaking as a corporate weapon to hold on to rights they no longer respect. However, I have to talk up the comparison to Godzilla minus one as great a film as it is. It is not comparable. Japanese wages and conditions in the film industry Are so much lower than the US especially when it comes to special effects studios It does not change the fact that American budgets are out of control

But we need to find a new argument over and out down with crazy budgets and up with storytelling at the four Okay says Dan number four is demon slayer new entry? So I haven't seen this, but this is the, it's a, it's a animated dark fantasy. It is part of the same. So if you remember, I, I reviewed some years ago, Demon Slayer, Mugen Train, which I really, really enjoyed. I wasn't off the screening of this, but I actually rather liked the demon slayer that I saw it is just so Before so you know for tiki it is the Direct sequel to the third season of the anime television series as well as its third film adaptation Okay, that's just a content. Have they shown it to you then? I don't know Yeah, no, it just may have have been that I was in Berlin.

Anyways, number two in America. It is good. I don't think it's anything to do with it not being a good film. Migration is at three, which we enjoyed a lot. I think that the weebles, what are they called? Heaven's sake, I've gone completely blank. One of the things I love more than anything. Minions. Minions.

Yes. Wow, that was a senior moment. The million short at the beginning is funnier. Number two is Wicked Little Letters. Hurray! Funny swearing by posh people. Laura in Bournemouth. Dear Fox, he asked and oh, I can't say the other one. No, you can't. Notorious. The C word, the B word, the other P word. It's a B word, one of the P words. Notorious flitter between hobbies, several time participation award

winner and one time charitable abseiler down the Spinnaker Tower, says Laura. I have just been to see wicked little letters and what a wicked little gem it has proven to be. I will watch absolutely anything Olivia Coleman appears in, so after seeing the trailer I was sold and as predicted it's a total delight. Olivia Coleman's repressed puritanical heirs are pitch perfect and there is no attempt to hide how much fun she and all the rest of the cast are clearly having. This isn't a movie to rock the foundations of feminism and I doubt it will appear on any awards lists but I laughed all the way through. Timothy Spall as an overbearing father is of course excellent and Jessie Buckley

brings an intrinsic charisma to her swery rose which as a woman who has been known to turn the air around me a similar shade of blue to that of my hair I found absolutely refreshing and Janna Vassan as a woman police officer Gladys Moss leads an excellent supporting cast and often through facial expressions alone acknowledges the baffling nature of small-town England. She does. I truly hope that lots of people go to see this before. June 2, Sandy Boogaloo. So that's Laura's new name for it. June 2 Sandy Boogaloo kicks it off the multiplex screens. Whatever mood you may happen to be in, this film cannot fail to leave you feeling buoyed. Hello to Jason

up with Sorci language and of the show, Steve, Lauren Bournemouth. So wiki little letters. Number two, that's a big hit then. Yeah, I'm really pleased because as you probably know, there have been some reviews of it that have been very, very sniffy. There was a, I think one of the very first reviews that came out was like a one star review in... Ludacris. Yeah, absolutely Ludacris because it is funny. And I think one of the problems is that you need to see it with an audience because you need to, there is something about the audience laughing at the swearing

that it's just particularly joyous. I mean, I laughed all the way through and I thought it was a good performance. Angela Vassen is very, very good. Olivia Coleman, obviously Jesse Buckley. But I mean, it's just, it sort of hits a sweet spot. And what I really love is it's kind of, people talk about the joy love is it's kind of people talk about the joy of the English language. Stephen Fry talks about the joy of the English language.

You know, we all studied Chaucer when we were at school. There is something genuinely weirdly Chaucerian about the nature of the swearing because it is like somebody swearing in a second language. I thought that was really funny. Okay. And number one here and number one in the States, Bob Marley, One Love. And again, another example of a film that was very, very harshly reviewed at least initially, but it's fine. It's not, I mean, it's not great. There are things wrong with it. It does take the rough edges off the story, which is a shame. I would have liked it to have been

slightly less hagi graphic, but it's fine. I've seen, I tend to think that most of the people who are really slagging it off haven't seen that many pop biopics because believe me, if like me, you're an absolute aficionado of that genre. It's one of the three star entries. It's fine. In a moment, June 2, Sandy Boogaloo with Denis Villeneuve and Hans Zimmer. Well, hello there. Simon and Mark here to tell you about Indeed. Yes, Indeed is driven by the search for better. But when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search match with Indeed. If you need to hire, then you need Indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform, with over 350 million global

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Indeed. This episode is brought to you by Mubi, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe. From iconic directors to emerging auteurs, there is always something new to discover, such as… Well, such as High and Low, John Galliano, which is the thought-provoking new documentary from Oscar winner Kevin MacDonald, charting the rise and fall of the fashion designer John Galliano. It traces Galliano. It traces Galliano's working and private life through the decades, candidly investigating his struggles

with addiction and the industry pressure he faced along the way. Features conversations with Naomi Campbell, Kate Moss, Pelby Cruz, Shully's Thrawn, Anna Wintour and many, many more. And it is showing in UK cinemas from March the 8th. Or you could explore the women's cinematographers film group streaming on movie in the UK from March the 8th, as women have found the Women's Cinematographers Film Group, streaming on movie in the UK from March the 8th. As women have found more equal footing in the film industry's directors, producers and screenwriters, cinematography remains a stubborn, final frontier. Around International Women's Day, movie are spotlighting the artistic and technical work

of women working behind the camera, including... Including films such as Annette from 2021, Ben Adetta from the same year, and more recently, Passages, all streaming in the UK from March the 8th. You can try Mubi Free for 30 days at Mubi.com slash Kermit and Mayo. That's Mubi.com slash Kermit and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. Now our guests today are the director, Denis Villeneuve and the composer, Hans Zimmer.

The latest, eagerly anticipated collaboration is Dune, Part 2. It's out now. The film rejoins Timothy Chalamet's Paula Trady's on the desert planet of Arrakis, where he seeks revenge against the people that killed his people, including his father. You'll hear my interview with Denis Villeneuve and Hans Zimmer after this clip from June, part two. We're equal. Men and women alike. What we do, we do for the benefit of all. I'd very much like to be equal to you. Maybe I'll show you the way. And that is a clip from Dune Part Two, and we're very excited to be in the same room

as Denny Villeneuve and Hans Zimmer, gentlemen. Nice to see you. Very nice to see you. Just comparing what this feels like, Denny, for the launch of Part two, with the launch of part one, when we were just coming out of COVID, it was a very different time. It must feel wonderfully from releasing, actually. Absolutely, because in part one, I did feel that I was racing with concrete on my feet,

you know, it was like an horrible way to launch a movie. But I'm not complaining because the world was suffering, but I'm just saying that the filmmakers were very difficult times. This time at last, we have a almost normal release. Yes, it was surprisingly quite well received for a small independent production. But it must be frustrating waiting to get this film out

because you have been delayed. Yeah, but it was a small delay, not too long, and it gave me the chance to do something that I wasn't expecting. I had a gift which is that we will release the movie in 70mm in IMAX or in a regular 70mm format in prints that I didn't do that in ages. And that's a gift from a Warner. I said that was like a little balm on the way there.

The gap between one and two is long enough, I think. I watched part one the day before I went to see part two, which is what I think most people should do. If they don't have an opportunity to do that, just introduce us to where we are with Part 2, Denny. But it's simply we catch up the characters where we left them a few hours later, and that's one of the challenge

of the adaptation was to make sure that if someone will not have seen Part 1, we'll still be able to enjoy Part 2. There's enough clues at the beginning of the movie to that, so you can understand overall the background of what happened in part one. I try to do a little resume at the beginning, as simply as possible.

I love the fact, I think I've got this right, that you both read Dune as teenagers, like the age of 14, something like that. Is that right, Hans? No, completely. And I think one of the things which I truly enjoyed, and Denis will probably say I'm wrong, but is that when we made it,

our hearts were like teenagers, except we had the knowledge of experience of having done some work. So we could feel it like the way we felt it when we first read it, but we had the mental technology to actually tell me. What did you feel when you first read it? It was one of my, it sort of was,

it helped me through a lot of sort of teenage angst problems, you know, the fierce, the mind killer part. And I thought it was absolutely, it was absolutely, as a teenager, it was one of my favorite books. It was one of the most important books. And I think we were standing on the Wallabrothers lot when you very quietly said to me,

have I ever heard of a book called Dune? And I sort of went, you know, like when little dogs get a girl a little mad and they do that thing, I when little dogs get a little mad and they do that thing. I think I scared you a little bit. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I didn't trust anybody to not disturb those images. But when Denis said, you know, have you ever read a book called Dune, which I knew was not a casual question.

You know, I mean, this is not just a friend. This is a man of great vision. And I knew that everything that I imagined he would triple. He would be true to what I had in my heart. Before we actually talk about what people will see when they go and see Dune 2, when you were the same age, when you were reading the book, did you feel similarly to Hans? How did it make you feel? It felt, this book felt home. It's like, I tell you, when you read it at the beginning of your teenage years and you used to follow this young man that is trying to consolidate his own identity and a young man that will, a young boy that will finally find home in a foreign culture is something

that absolutely moved me at the time when Paul is lost with his mother in the desert and he said, that could be a good place to live. I remember I was like, I don't know, I strongly identify not with a messianic part of the character but with that quest for identity and that love for how open he was to someone else called another culture and the way Frank Herbert described this culture, the Fremen culture, all the details of it and how it was linked with biology and the study of ecosystems, which are topic at the

time, the science that I was really interested by. There's a precise moment in my life where I was a crossroad. It was either cinema or biology. True cinema, obviously, but it's like the study of life is at the center of the book, and it's something that I really adore. Interesting that you say about the foreign cultures, because I was grappling with the very same thing. You know, I had come from Germany to England and I was, I was grappling, was trying to integrate into a foreign culture, which by the way, you English did not make easy. Can I apologize then?

No, I'll just, you're forgiven, my friend. He's always like that. It's very much that, you know, that the finding in yourself a sense of home. The boy and the man you're talking about, much that, you know, the finding in yourself a sense of hope. Mm-hmm, yeah. The boy and the man you're talking about, and he is, of course, Paula Trady's, played by Timothy Chalamet, who has grown up.

I mean, not that he was, I mean, he looks very boyish, which is obviously part of the charm, but compare where Paula Trady's is and what Timothy Chalamet has to do in part two with where he was in part one. When Timothy walked on set on part one, he was like a very young man. He was alone 23 years old, having to find his way, trying to understand how he interacts, how he practices creative process in this environment of a huge Hollywood machine. You know, it's like, it was like really

trying to find his own identity as an actor, as an artist. And it was, I felt a lot of, I was feeling responsible to protect him. And he learned so much doing part one, I will say that from his own words. And also after he really grew up a lot. And then when he walked on the set of Part 2, he was a totally different actor,

but absolutely confident with another level of maturity as an artist. And he was a leading man. And something that embodied also the character itself. I mean, the fact that in Part 2, Paul goes from being a boy to a leader. Yes. And my son, who has also read all the books,

describes him as space Jesus. Is there any truth in those two words? I was thinking particularly given the challenge that he has to go to the other part of the planet and he doesn't want to go and he's afraid, you know, be acclaimed the Messiah and all this, is there to space Jesus work for you? But in some ways, you can see that Jesus is a figure

that was misunderstood and that the dogma become bigger than the message and that the way his message was used to do war, you can say it's like a man that wanted to do something good that created hell. It's like you can see it's like a man that wanted to do something good that created hell. It's like you can see that this way. Hans, what did you get first for this? Do you sit down with Denis and talk about where it's going?

Do you get sent a screenplay? At what stage do you actually start to make music and compose music? I don't think I ever got a screenplay. I think I can safely say one of the pleasures I have is that I get to work with my friend and we speak a lot, we talk a lot about ideas and it's great that Denis lets me into his vision as he's speaking. So I try to write as closely as possible from what I understand that the need, you know, the needs vision for the film is.

Then there came a moment of complete madness, I think you agree, that we finished the first film and I just carried on writing because I knew, you know, we were only at a certain part of the book. So the, I hate using that title, but it's the right title. The love theme, which is very strong in this movie, was actually written before Denny was shooting the second movie, and I was touring all over Europe,

and I would open my set with it, and people didn't know what the music was, and I always thought, I thought it was actually quite nice that eventually when they saw the movie, it was going to go, that's what that is. The thing is that I don't share screenplay with aunts because we can't see these movies. Okay, when I embarked on the journey,

the first person I talked to about this idea of making a Dune adaptation was Hans, because we had just had a very, for me, it was an amazing and important experience doing Blade Runner 2049 with Hans. And when I understood what the book meant to him, and I will say that among all the artists I I work with thousands of people in that movie. Hans is the one who has exactly a similar experience as I did with the book, a similar link with the book, relationship, sorry, with the book. And by far the artist that I can have the most profound and deep conversation about the book.

So he's like, I think for me, Dune is like a movie that is made by two artists. And I love the idea that as I'm writing the screenplay, shooting everything, Aunt is doing the sound design, the music design, and that we merge together. And it's like super important because there's a dialogue between the music and the movie that is operated by him being inspired by the image and the book

that elevates the movie. It's not, let's say that Hans is not contaminated by the screenplay, which is very important, he's inspired by the book. And I wanted all my team to always go back to the book in a perfect world. I would rather not have any screenplay to make this book. It would have been impossible to make the movie. I mean, but I love the idea that at least with one of my collaborators,

I can go this way. Just read the book and compose music. So if you follow that through, are you already composing for the next film? For June Messiah? Have you started on that? Sort of. I mean, a couple of days ago, Diddy's on a plane. I'm sending him something, which I was just... I just couldn't stop, and I was sending him something,

and I didn't get an answer within five minutes on a 10-minute piece, and I saw the email boss, oh don't even bother listening to it, I know it's terrible. You know, and I'm paraphrasing now, but you know, you're- I laugh because I said, ants, you get, I'm in the plane,

I didn't have even the time to listen to it. You guys, ants, if you give him a compliment, he's, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but if you don't say, no, no, I don't. But it was a beautiful, it was a stunning piece, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you don't say, no, no, no. But it was a beautiful, it was a stunning piece, it was very strong, and I didn't have the time to listen to it. We have this, we, me, I have this psychological flaw,

which is if he gives me a compliment, I sort of die of embarrassment, but if he doesn't tell me that it's really good, I die of, you know, oh my God, I failed, I failed. So we have figured out our language, I think, by now. Yeah, yeah, and I think that the idea of making a third chapter, like that, I always thought that it would make absolute sense once the first book will be done to have like,

Frank Herbert did an epilogue that gives like, to see the impact and the consequences of Polatryzy's actions. And I think it will be a quite a tragic book, tragic movie too, and I'm very inspired by that. I mean, I hope you don't mind me saying this, but I mean, when we were doing the first movie, we didn't actually know really

if we were allowed to do the second movie. Yeah. So we were all battling in our own way to go and make the second movie. And I think that was partly why I just didn't stop writing. I just carried on writing. Well, Dune 2 is beautiful.

Absolutely stunning piece of work. I loved it very much. I'm already looking forward to the third. Hans Denny, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And at that point, because I was being told to wind up

a few minutes before the end of that, but that was them genuinely riffing between each other. You could see why they were a great pairing. That was when I was able to say to Denis that I thought Arrival was one of my favourite movies. Fantastic. And the Interstellar was one of my favourite soundtrack. And then we did mention Bugles, or we did mention Ultravox, and it was very funny.

And Hans, no, he wasn't wearing any socks. Also, Denis Villeneuve must be the only person on earth who refers to that film as Blade Runner 2049. Everyone calls it Blade Runner 2049, but if he calls it Blade Runner 2049. Let's change it now. Let's change it now. Let's start using the proper thing.

So, June part two, I remember at the end of June part one, you, which you really, really liked. Yes, very much. You know, very much. You said, well, they've left a lot of work. I said they have a mountain to climb because if you know the story of June, and it was lovely hearing about them talking about, you know, him saying, I read it as a teenager, it's my favorite book. And then, you know, then he sidles up and goes, have you ever had June? And it's not a casual question. It's just like, oh, did you see that?

If Denis Villeneuve asks you that kind of question, you know it means. You know, here we go. And as I was saying before, obviously the history of June, there is a very good documentary called Chodorowsky's June, which is all about how the Chodorowsky June, which was going to be 14 hours long and star Salvador Dali as a robot, as far as I understand, or a robot of Salvador Dali in order to make it work, never got made.

And then, of course, David Lynch made his version, which doesn't make any sense and then exist in two different, whatever. So the idea that the first tune worked as well as it did was great. But the story, the first half of the story is kind of, you know, it's got fairly clear lines, you know, somebody coming in, it was very interesting that Denis Villeneuve said in that interview, like Timothy Chalamet between the two films, but you know, kind of comes of age, which of course is the story of Paul's Lady Man. But the second half is a lot darker. It's a lot more complex, it's a lot more complicated. And it's interesting that that's probably where the wheels come off in the David Lynch version.

So firstly, you do have to have seen Dune Part 1. There's no excuse for not seeing Dune Part 1. It's widely available on streaming services. It's on Netflix. Just watch it. If you're going to see Dune Part 2, see Dune Part 1 and I know that in that interview, Denis Villeneuve said, well, we had to make it so that there was kind of like a recap at the beginning for anyone who hadn't seen the first one.

That recap isn't going to explain anything at all. It's not a long scroll like in Star Wars No, it's one of those things like if you remember previously on Twin Peaks, which seemed to be there specifically to confuse the audience even if you understood what was going on once you'd seen the previously on Twin Peaks you thought I've got no idea Lynch's version had a visual splendor, but it was in the end thematically empty. It was a film of very memorable interludes, but it didn't have a through line. And what Vilner's Dune proved was that you can do this. But it's very, very complicated to keep these, there are so many things going on, particularly

in the second part. It takes a real storytelling clarity. Now, part one had a real clarity to it. I think what is really impressive about part two is that despite how complex and, you know, like a miasma the plot becomes, Denis Villeneuve, who as he demonstrated in Arrival, I think one of the reasons that you love Arrival so much and it's the same reason that I do, is the storytelling is so clear. It's a really interesting story about how you view time, you know, whether you view time as linear or cyclical and it's how temporality affects your view of fate and of life and

death, which sounds like it's completely, and yet when you watch Arrival, it's a really beautiful story. And I think the same is true of Blade Runner 2049. 2049. I'm so sorry, Blade Runner 2049, which I think Martin Scorsese enjoyed as well. So the thing with this is, like you said, it is beautiful, but like both Arrival and Blade Runner 2049,

the visual beauty never obscures what's going on underneath. Sci-Fi is a genre in which ideas and wonderment coincide. And sometimes science fiction on screen can just succumb to spectacle. I remember Stephen King saying there are various levels of horror, and I think it's like, you know, terror, horror, gross out, you know, so it's like you aim for one minute. And in science fiction, it's like ideas are at the top and at the bottom, it's well, in a planet blowing up, you know, so if nothing else works, I'll give you a planet or I'll give you a monster or something like that.

This has ravishing dunes. I mean, somebody, people were talking about this, so yeah, they filmed on location. What? In space? no, on location in San Junes. The worms are breathtaking. I mean, the idea of the worms is so hard to visualize when you read the books to find, but the worms are absolutely breathtaking. If you've seen the trailers, you know, there's that shot of them coming,

just coming out of the thing. They are breathtaking, and the worm riding is breathtaking as well. You actually think that you are watching somebody riding a worm. Riding a giant worm, which is, this has gladiatorial fights to the death, but none of that spectacle ever obscures the fact

that the story is what's important. Greg Fraser, who shot Dune and Batman and Creator, has talked about this technique that he uses, which is that you shoot the whole thing shot on IMAX, but it's you shoot digital, you shot on IMAX, prove digital cameras, and then you transfer the 35mm and then back and people say, well, why? And I read an interview with him and he said, well, when we were doing the tests, film looked too nostalgic and digital

looked too crisp. So using this process gives us the best of both worlds. And okay, it's up to cinematographers to tell me whether, you know, whether there's an easy way of doing this. But what I know is that the end result looks really, really breathtaking. I think when you were talking about the space Jesus, which is what child three refers to. Child one. Child one, I beg your pardon. Space Jesus. Space Jesus. It does sound as though part three

is definitely going to be space Jesus. But it's also, and I don't mean this as a mocking thing. I mean, it is genuinely, it is Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Because Monty Python's life with Brian, because one of the things that's fascinating about it is that as the, you know, Denis Villeneuve was saying, you know, the dog was becoming, you know, bigger than the message and then the message turns into warfare. If you remember the sequence in Life of Brian, when the crowd chased Brian

and one of his shoes falls off and John Cleese, he's left us a sign, it is a shoe, and then somebody else says, no, no, he's left us the God, we must follow the God. And suddenly all these kind of this plethora of ideas come and he's left us the God. We must follow the God. And suddenly all these kind of this plethora of ideas come and he's and he's doing all the time. I'm not the Messiah. And there is a kind of I'm not the Messiah element to the Paul the tradies character, which is then sort of overwhelmed by what we are told is predestined faith.

And there's a lot of very complicated philosophical stuff here about the idea of prophecy and prophecies being stories and prophecies being stories that are used to control people. And actually in the context of something we were talking about earlier on about any kind of religious fundamentalism and the way in which those ideas can be poisonous, this is a really kind of deep dark dive descent into all of those things with giant space worms, ornithopters, you know, gladiatorial battles. And there's one shootout sequence, which is really properly nail-biting stuff. Also, in terms of the music, I was told recently, apparently the bagpipes in that first film, they're not bagpipes, are they? Well, you see a bagpipe on screen.

You do. Apparently, Hans Zimmer did it with electric guitar, much like big country did when they were in a big country. But anyway, so brilliant to hear that part three is happening, which is June Messiah, which space Jesus as your calling it. And I think that this does have the potential to be like a triptych, like the first three Star Wars movies, which people kind of take as the holy trinity of the Star Wars stuff. I really like the, because what happened with the next book is that Herbert was saying that

it's about the consequences of what happens. And, you know, Denis Villeneuve talking about, you know, it's a tragic idea, the messianic tragic idea. And we are sort of, I think we're definitely set up for that. But I'm just so impressed that he's managed to keep all those really quite complicated themes going whilst having all this extraordinary visual spectacle, whilst having moments when you're just looking at it and thinking, I've been transported to another world, and I would say see it in the biggest format you can. Did you feel that Christopher Walken and Florence Pugh were kind of underneath?

So here is my PS. I think the performances are very good. I think Zendaya is terrific. I think she's really, she actually is the kind of, the center of the drama. And it's a big weight to carry because this is a very, very complicated film. I think she's really, really great.

And Austin Butler, I didn't recognize Austin Butler as sting. I didn't recognize Austin Butler initially. It was like, oh, wow, it's Elvis. I think you're not supposed to know. No, but that's good. It could be anybody. But that's great. However, and also, you know, I'm not the biggest fan of Timothy Shalamey, but I spent the whole

movie not thinking of him as Timothy Shalame, thinking of him as Paul and Trady's. My one quibble would be Christopher Walken plays Christopher Walken. And they, I mean, you do expect him at one point to tell Timothy Shalloway that he's got the watch that his father put up his Jaxie because he's doing Christopher Walken, even the Christopher Walken hair in space is Christopher Walken hair. And I think Christopher Walken. Even the Christopher Walken hair in space is Christopher Walken hair. And I think Christopher Walken's great.

I think he's really, really good, but there was something weird about that role. I never thought that that was anything other than Christopher Walken wearing a costume. And I have this feeling that if you said to Christopher Walken, so Christopher, tell us about the background to this story. He wouldn't have known anything other than what he was saying. Now, I may be wrong.

I may be wrong, but on screen, I think it is the one jarring note that he appears to have been parachuted in from outside. And of course, it's a, you know, why not cast Christopher Walken? He's great in everything. I think he isn't great in this. And your other point was that you think that...

in everything. I think he isn't great in this. And your other point was that you think that... Inevitably, because he and Florence Pugh are connected. They come together that it feels as though they're underused. You go through the whole of the first film thinking, okay, we're telling Skarsgård, he's clearly the bad guy. And then you get to Jude, you go, oh, well, he's not the main bad guy because there's another bad guy behind him. Yes. Although I think the difference would be that I think that Florence Pugh is great for the amount that she is used. And I think that Christopher Walken isn't. I just think he's not very good in it.

That is a minor quibble in the worms, the sand, the politics, the religion, the everything else, the music, the whole experience. My one quibble is Christopher Walken talking. Very good. So, June part two, I'm thinking it's gonna be movie of the week, but we'll find out because no one actually knows until Mark says the words. Maybe Mark doesn't know himself.

I keep banging the microphone, I'm so sorry. You do. Adds in a minute Mark, but first it's time to step once again with joy in our hearts into the laughter lift. The lift of laughter. Hey. Hey. Hey. Mark, Child 3 was pretty angry last week. Right. You remember? I do remember. He was angry about the music being a little too loud. Anyway, he was also angry about the courier who'd gone to pick up your laptop because you'd forgotten it and we interrupted his sleep at the ungodly hour of I don't know 9 30 or something like that. When I got home that evening caused a bit of a scene. He angrily stomped

up to our extremely small loft and started playing his bongos very loudly. It's a little dramatic dramatic if you ask me. But was it a symbolic gesture? Yes and there were repercussions. Thank you child three added. A bit of a mixed week with with with you know who I'm afraid the good lady ceramicist Erin Dawes confessed that she broke my favorite lamp. I don't think I'll be able to look at her in the same light ever again. Ouch. She got really annoyed with me actually this week. Why don't you ever do any cooking? Why don't you cook anything? Why is it always me?

So I thought I'd surprise her by making her favorite meal. I looked up the recipe and it said, set the oven to 180 degrees. That was a useless advice. Now I can't open it because it's facing the wall. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, substitute taker, and this episode is brought to you by Better Help. Now, a lot of us spend our lives wishing we had more time. If I had an extra hour slotted into my day, I would actually get through a question, shmestians. You know, it's, I can never quite fit the extra shows in.

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That's betterhelp.com slashp.com.com. work of the world's intelligence services, unearthing, daring missions packed with danger, deceit and double crosses. Follow the Spy Who wherever you listen to podcasts. And the answer is, the question, which Swedish company gave away in 1962 to save millions of lives? The answer is Volvo, although now owned by the Chinese, Volvo gave away the 1962 patent for their revolutionary three-point seat belt for free. Niels Bohlen, an engineer at Volvo, invented the three-point seat belt in 1959. Volvo decided that the invention was so significant, it had more value as a free life-saving tool than something to profit up from.

Wow. Isn't that amazing? That is amazing. That's genuinely amazing. Makes you think, I'm going to buy a Volvo, although they're owned by the Chinese. So maybe I went to Nell because they'll have all my information and then they'll be able to make my car shut down. You just tick-tock it.

Okay, I could do that. Anyway, so we've already had, I suspect, the movie of the week, but there are the movies that are out this week. For example. For example, Lisa Frankenstein, which is the, or is my good friend, Van Conner, who's a film critic, calls it Jennifer's Warm Bodies, which is a very good joke. Why is that a very good joke? You shall find out.

So this is a horror comedy directed by Zelda Williams, daughter of Robin, from a script by Diablo Cody who won, I think, a BAFTA and an Oscar for Juno, went on to write Jennifer's body, young adult, Ricky and the Flash, Tully. She also won a Tony for the Alanis Morissette Broadway musical Jagged Little Pill, which I didn't know. This is set in 1989 and in many ways is kind of homage to the fashions and the music of the 80s team flicks. Catherine Newton is Lisa Swallow as a high schooler whose mother was brutally killed by an axe murderer. It's a comedy though. Now she lives in a new town with her dad and his new partner Janet, played by Collegi Gino, and her new stepsister Taffy, played by Lisa Sabrano.

And it is not an entirely happy arrangement. How are you liking Brookview so far? It's fine. It's the same as my old school. Are you hot for anyone? Come on. Lisa. Lisa! Lisa, Lisa, Lisa, Lisa, Lisa, Lisa, Lisa.

I'll try. I don't know what that is. He's the editor-in-chief of The Grapple. Lit Mag. High School Literary Magazine. Does he lunch on or off campus? Off. BK or White Castle?

Neither. Does he have more of a basketball bot or a football bot? He doesn't play sports, he's cerebral. He's in a wheelchair. Oh, that's very annoying. Why? Classic mistake. What?

Movies, scenes shot in cars. Yeah. Where the driver is spending most of her time looking at the passenger. Nobody does that. Okay, but I think you are literally going straight to the heart of the periphery. No, it's actually very important. Okay.

I'm just taking me out of the moment. Okay. So two things. So it must be Gujino and I don't know why I said that. And also that joke at the end reminded me of the joke in Zoolander when she says, I'm bulimic. He says, you can read minds, which was a very funny joke. So anyway, our hero Lisa has got the hots for the literary editor of the literary magazine.

She's very gothy. She spends her days in the local cemetery talking to a Victorian gravestone. And then following an accident with her sister's tanning bed, yes, really, an awful party, an ill-judged wish and a lightning strike, the inhabitant of the grave by which she spent so much time, you know, being gothy, is resurrected, looking like a cross between Edward Scissorhands and Edgar Wright as it turns out. This is Coles Brouse. He turns up at her house and initially she's scared, but she hides him in a closet and then they become best friends. He can't speak, so therefore he is a very good listener.

He is missing some body parts and he's embarrassed about missing the body parts. So with the help of an axe and the tanning bed and some electricity, they set about getting the body parts back. So the reason that Van said it's Jennifer's warm body is because there are echoes obviously of warm bodies and life after

Beth, the kind of teen friendly cocktail of love and death. Lots of nods to 80s pics like weird science, you know, the teens bring fantasy creation to life by wiring up a computer to a thing in a lightning rod and then something blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. There is a damn it, Janet joke from Rocky Horror. Here's the thing, like the creature at the center of it, this starts out creaky. It starts out a bit shambling.

And that scene that you just saw in which you were complaining about the fact that somebody was looking at the person next to him while he was not looking at it. Yeah, you're fine. But then, again, like the creature at the center of it, it proceeds to find its feet and indeed its voice. And then it gets a lot more gleefully gory and vengeful than you would expect.

It doesn't have the visual panache of Jennifer's body, which was directed by Karen Casson, which is I think a very well-made film. And it does lurch around unevenly, particularly in pacing. There are sometimes in which just the pacing of certain scenes seems alarmingly out of step, again, like the monster. But as the thing proceeds, all those ramshackle elements end up kind of adding to its charm. Now, as far as I understand, this hasn't been embraced by the box office in the US, and I can't see it being a hit here. I think it will struggle to find an audience. But if you stumbled across it late at night on a streaming service or if when I was doing the

sight and sound video column, it was videos back then, this would have been film of the week. It's a kind of cross between John Hughes comedies and throwback horror bolted together. So yes, of course, it feels like a number of different things sewn together like a tapestry. Of course, it feels like a number of different things sewn together like a tapestry. But it's kind of enjoyable and lovable and a bit out there. And it's got that Diablo Cody sort of punky feminist feel, which I really enjoyed. And it's got a lovely opening sequence, which is kind of very smart use of, well, I do the opening scenes like this animation thing, which is really beautiful. It's got a very good use of pop tunes.

And I, having started out thinking, I'm not going for this at all. I'm finding this quite hard. I ended up being kind of charmed by it and enjoying it much more than I thought I was going to. So, Lisa Frankenstein, much better than I expected and really nice to see Diablo Cody, you know, doing something which, because she, you know, she knows her horror inside out, she knows this stuff, she's very funny, she understands how to write this stuff. Go see it.

Go see it. It's worth investing in. I thought so. I think it won't do well. I can't see it setting the charts on fire at all. A quick bit of what's on here. This is where you let us know of anything that is kind of cinematically vaguely related by recording a voice note

and sending it to correspondents at curminamere.com. For example, this. Hi Simon Mark. We hope productions and we are wondering if you could advertise GoGov's first film festival on Friday the 22nd of March. As for GoGov, as I did know, it will run from 7pm and our main film is Topgum. Tickets can be found on Event Right. Just search for the first A School Go-Golf Film Festival. Thank you. So, full marks to the young people at that school in Slenderno

for inviting us to their very first ever film festival. And well done for observing your role, but the shorter, the punchier, the better. Well done. That was exactly what we were asking for. Exactly, so if you're anywhere near Thrandar, go and look that up and go and find it and go and support it. And how fantastic for schools, having a film festival. Yeah, brilliant.

Clearly an inspired teacher somewhere. Somewhere there is, there is a captain, my captain there, isn't there? There is. Before we go, Eric Crawford in Massachusetts. Yes. You know, this is almost like a pause for thought, like a thought for the day,

like a profound moment at the end. Pause for a course pause. Okay, yes. So Eric says, last week, Avangardista stressed the usefulness of discussing favorite rather than best films. Right, yes. Mark then made a case for the exorcist

being both his favorite, but in more than one way, also the best of films. So this leads me to share an epistemological shorthand that has been useful to me and might be useful to others of this parish. Okay. Okay. This seems to be obviously true. It's simple. We use the word truth for three very different things. Not doing this and instead adapting names for these buckets of meaning might reduce online flame wars significantly. Truth one, personal truth, this is my favorite city, that is my least favorite food and may I introduce you to the love of my life. We can agree that arguments of these points are rather silly, no point, it's just personal truth. Truth two is arrived at socially polls, elections,

trials and discussions and arguments in general. Truth three is the high bar. Objective truth. Very precise statements such as 11 plus 7 equal 18 require no debate and anyone can reach the same result. Even the most ardently felt personal truths and the most debated social same result. Even the most ardently felt personal truths and the most debated social truths never rise to the level of objective truth, because something like, which film is best, is too imprecise and contains a multitude

of other questions in the background. I hope my three simple buckets terminology, personal, social and objective proves helpful. Yeah, there's a fourth truth, the Kellyanne Conway, alternative truth. If only Eric had thought, I mean, Eric is closer to that than we are. Yes, exactly. So, okay.

So, there's always the alternative truth, but for... Which is derived from alternative facts. Any sane... The people living in alternative reality. ...rational, non-magic person. Truth one, truth two and truth three. America really is a cesspool, isn't it? Okay, we're going to finish it there. It's the End of Take One. Mark's finished it in style.

This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production this week's Team of Talent. The Team of Talent. Yes, Lily Gulliver, Vicki Zaki, Josh Matias and Beth. Who made a great film? Yes, Michael Dale. No, Beth made a great film. We must tell you about that next week. Yeah, we'll review it next week's show. Okay, that's very good. Producers Michael Dale, the redacted with Simon Paul Mark, what is your film of the week? Do you part two? Thank you very much indeed for downloading us. Take Two has also landed loads of extra stuff on

there. Take Three with you on Wednesday.