Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Dev Patel, Monkey Man, Evil Does Not Exist, Godzilla x Kong: The New Empire & Seize Them!

Episode Date: April 5, 2024

This week, the lovely Dev Patel is on the show to chat all things ‘Monkey Man’, his (co) writing and directorial debut, which sees a young man hunt down the group of corrupt leaders responsible for his mother’s death. Mark also gives his thoughts on the film, as well as reviewing ‘Evil Does Not Exist’, an enigmatic eco-parable, which sees a Tokyo company buy up land near a pristine lake in a bid to turn it into a glamping site; and ‘Godzilla x Kong: The New Empire’, a Rebecca Hall-starring follow-up to the 2021 monster film, which sees Godzilla and the almighty Kong face a colossal threat hidden deep within the planet that challenges their very existence and the survival of the human race. The big review of the week is ‘Seize Them!’, a Dark Ages-set comedy romp, which sees a queen, played by Aimee Lou Wood, forced to endure hardship and danger as she embarks on a voyage to win back her throne. Timecodes (relevant only for the Vanguard - who are also ad-free!): Evil Does Not Exist – 7:05 Box Office Top Ten – 12:45 Godzilla x Kong – 16:54 Dev Patel Interview – 25:49 Monkey Man Review – 40:17 Seize Them! Review – 47:43 You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Introducing Tim's new savory pinwheels. The perfect flaky and flavorful snack for those on the go. Like me, who's recording this while snacking. Woo, delicious! Try the roasted red pepper and Swiss or caramelized onion and parmesan pinwheels only at Tim's. At participating restaurants in Canada for a limited time. I never quite understood why Mark and Lard really hated Crocodile Shoes by Jimmy Nail. Did they? Yeah, they did.

Well, that's my memory of it. Crocodile shoes. It's one of those songs that you cannot, once someone has just reminded you about crocodile shoes, you just have it playing in your head because it's such an effective chorus. You were reminded, it goes, crocodile shoes, that is the chorus isn't it? That's the one. You're fine. You were reminded of it because we were just reading something that had a list of things

and it said hair, shoes, or maybe hair shoes. Hair shoes and I just thought crocodile shoes. Crocodile shoes. This is back at radio, this is radio one times I think and I'm on the mornings and Mark Knopfler comes in to play Croc, he's doing some live music. Mark Knopfler? Yeah well that was the thing because Jimmy... Oh does he, is it his song with Jimmy Nail singing?

They're mates, so they're mates, so Jimmy Nail had been booked but Mark Knopfler comes in just to play guitar, he doesn't sing, he's just playing the guitar with Jimmy Nail. So they go, okay this is quite good, so Jimmy did a great version of Crocodile Shoes with Mark Knopfler, sort of, he was expecting not to be mentioned, really, as though anyone is not going to be mentioning that you've got Mark Knopfler in the studio just doing the guitar. And then I said to him, this is Mark Knopfler, doesn't it annoy you when people play Sultans of Swing on the radio and they play the album version. But this really bothers you. Yes.

This really bothers you. They don't play the single version, which is the one that everybody went out and bought. So the one that people heard on the radio, they went out and bought, is not the version that people... And what's the key difference? Well there's a... the whole compression... I think it's a re-recording, but the compression is different. You can tell instantly from the drum sound that it's the single or the album version.

And the lyric, excuse me, is Mark Knopfler going, thank you, good night, now it's time to go home. And the album version doesn't have thank you, it just says good night. Oh wow, so that's how you tell the difference. So the single version has got thank you and the album version doesn't. Yeah. And anyway, so I said, you know, because I'm always fighting the battle to play the single version. And he looked at me as though I was possessed and he said, you know, I'm always fighting the battle to play the single version. And he looked at me as though I was possessed. And he said, it doesn't bother me at all. Why do you look? I said, but why are there two versions? He said, I can't remember. So it was just like he was completely zen with the whole thing, but it just was... Didn't you always have a sort of a clenching moment? Did you ever play

Don't Marry Her by The Beautiful South? That was the wrong version. Didn't you always worry that it might not, until the first chorus, that it might not be the right version? Oh, always. I mean, now it's fine because everything is on a hard drive, so you're just playing the officially sanctioned version. Yes. You don't actually cue anything up.

No. But no, the worst version was playing a KLF track, which has the kick out the jams and then a kind of a reverse that bit. But I was playing the wrong version. And so the actual version goes out, kick out the jams, Melon Farmer. And the head of music rings the studio and says, take it off, take it off, take it off. I said, it's too late, it's kind of gone out. And he said, no, there's another one.

There's another one. I said, no, no, there isn't, I think that's it. And I said that, another one went out. So we had a couple of, I think everyone found it very funny, but it was clearly, if the head of music tells you to do something, you do what you're told. Yeah. There's this, the version of Peaches

that got played on the radio is a radio edit of Peaches. And then people seem to have forgotten that. It's not even an edit, it's a re-recording. It's a re-recording, isn't it? You often hear the wrong version played. You often hear the wrong version played. Are you not listening to this thing that you're playing? I know, it's like, literally, it's radio too. And, you know, what did he just say about

the Sharer Bang? Yes, that's right. Which part? Oh, okay, that part. Also, the unedited version doesn't make any biological sense. No, it doesn't. Also, the emphasis is wrong. He says the word wrong. He says the word like a schoolboy who just read it in the dictionary went, Pfft. Have you seen this word? Button. Except it's not. It's the other side. Anyway, it would have been better if it was, is she trying to get out of that? Psst. But then...

That would have been funny for sure. But I don't think the Stranglers did comedy. No, they didn't do comedy. They were strangely po-faced. What are you doing later? We're going to be reviewing Evil Does Not Exist, Seize Them, which is good fun, and Monkeyman, with our very, very special guest, I'm thrilled to say...

Is Dev Patel. So Dev Patel on Monkeyman, written by Dev Patel, starring Dev Patel, directed by Dev Patel. Is Dev Patel on Monkey Man, written by Dev Patel, starring Dev Patel, directed by Dev Patel. Is Dev Patel in it? He is, just a bit. Our recommendation on our Extra Takes, admirable extra podcast, recommendation feature, weekend watch list, weekend not list, TV Movie of the Week, bonus reviews of... The Scoop, which is on Netflix, and The Trouble with Jessica, which is in cinemas. One frame back is Revenge Mov revenge movies because of that there monkey man

and you don't have to wait until Wednesday for questions, Schmestgens which is now in take two. You can access this via Apple podcasts or head to extra takes.com for non-fruit related devices and if you're already a Vanguardista as always. With feeling. We salute you with feeling. And together. Yes that's right. three three we we salute you Jack on an email dear sci and fi MTL multiple-time emergency mailer third place counterpoint finalist 2018 on the subject of the pronunciation of sci-fi mm-hmm I have an alternative to get around this problem simply use the term employed by early writers in this genre. Scientificate, scientific, this is why it doesn't work,

because you can't say it, scientific-tion. Scientific-tion. Scientific-tion. So it's scientific with shun in the end. Scientific-tion. Yes. Anyway. Okay, well I challenge you to use that.

It works as a word, but saying it out, I'm sure this term will clear up all the confusion, as the pronunciation is very obvious. It's totally clear which syllable should be stressed or unstressed. It's not because you want to say scientific-tion, but actually it's scientific-tion. The discussion also reminded me of an occasion when I wrote the term sci-fi in a crossword I was doing. My brother, upon seeing this and assuming the word was simply Italian, said, what's a she-fee? So that's another possible alternative. Shidi shonk up with blue tentacle UAPs and down with old fashioned

UFOs, yours etc. Jack. And Dwayne Wise, dear your majesty is like a dose of clap and before you arrive it's pleasure but after you arrive there's a pain in the dung. I know this is not asked for but your decision on the pronunciation of sci-fi is missing a key variant. The group I have associated with sometimes refers to the genre as Skiffy, which makes the name of the famous bush kangaroo and replaces the P's with F's. This term, as we pronounce it, can be interpreted as either affectionate or derisive, depending on sender and receiver.

Dwayne in Bath. Thank you Dwayne. So Skiffy, I don't mind that. No, it's better than scientific-scientifiction. Scientific-scientifiction. Scientific-scientifiction. More on the etymology of science fiction in take two, by the way, correspondents at kodemayor.com. Tell us about a top movie. Evil Does Not Exist, which is a new film from Raosuke Hamaguchi, who made Drive My Car, which remember we spoke about before. This won the grand jury prize at Venice and it won best film at the London Film Festival

last year. Set in a forest village in Harasawa, Takumi lives with his young daughter, Hannah. He takes care of odd jobs for locals. He chops wood. He gets pristine water from the wells that he takes to them. It seems like an Eden-like existence. It's kind of like an eco-paradise. Deer pass through this village that they live in.

Then a Tokyo company called Playmode turn up, announcing that they have plans for a glamping site. Glamping being, and of course actually that's the word that you have been, is it glam? Yes, it is glamourous camping. And as part of a sort of PR exercise, they send two representatives to liaise with the community meaning that they put on a sort of demonstration in which they put on display about how great the site is going to be and all the things that it will do for the community. But it very soon becomes clear that Playmode, surprise surprise, have no idea about the fragile ecosystem into which they are about to sort of bulldoze their way.

Their water cleansing system, sewage system is completely inadequate. It will poison the water in the wells. Their camp is on a deer trail and it will put people, you know, in the way of the deer and that's not good for either the people or the deer. The film opens with an image of a young child walking through woods and because of the title, because the title is Evil Does Not Exist, you get the sense that something terrible is coming, you're not quite sure what. Apparently the film began life as a 30 minute short which was going to have live music by

Eko Shabashi. Now if you remember, she did the score for Drive My Car, which was my favourite score of the year that that film came out. It's absolutely wonderful. I still listen to that soundtrack album all the time. That short then grew into a feature in which it has dialogue and plot. It's very, very enigmatic. On the one hand, it's about a culture clash. It's about people who live in the woods and people from Playmo, from the town coming into the woods. And they don't want the townies coming in, but meanwhile, nobody is exactly what they seem.

I mean, the townies are actually quite seduced by this woodland existence. And one of the people who's meant to be there from Playmo to say, this is how we're going to set up the clamping site, starts to think, well, maybe I don't want to do that. Maybe what I want to do is live in the woods and become a caretaker in the woods. There's also the central character who is entirely good and entirely virtuous and who does the wood chopping and the water gathering. And yet one of the things that he does is forget to pick up the kid from school on a fairly regular basis. I think what the film is about is it's a it seems to me that it is a parable about the balance of nature that if

something new arrives within nature something else must move to take its place. It has a finale that is as enigmatic as anything I've seen since the end of 2001. It's not that you'll end up arguing about what what happened means, it's that you'll probably end up arguing about what happened because it's designed very specifically that you just can't quite tell what's going on. What is going on?

Well, it is a film which you will want to come out and afterwards have a drink with your friends and talk about what it means. I mean, I think some people will find it mesmerizing. Occasionally the pace is slower than the service at the Hoxton Grill. I mean, it's like it is absolutely a kind of, you know, just look at this image and look at this image and then look at this image a little bit more. But I was thinking about, you know, what does the title mean? And I think that Evil Does Not Exist

is about that we exist in a limbo between good and bad. It's not that there is good and bad, there is just the shades of everything in between. And as you watch these characters, you realize that everything you think about each one of them is immediately simplified by your assumptions. And then as you watch the drama, you start to understand that each one of them has all these different qualities within them and that it isn't just a binary opposition between, on the one hand, there's the evil townies, on the other hand, there's the people that live in the forests. At one point, there's a very interesting discussion about, well, these townies are coming in and they don't live here and they're not from here and they don't know the customs. And one of the locals says, well, we're all from somewhere else. We all came in from somewhere else as well. So it's a film of questions, not answers.

I found it entrancing. I mean, I was absolutely mesmerized by it. And I have to say the last five minutes of it have stuck with me, although I still am not quite sure what's happening or why it stuck with me. The music's beautiful, that's what you'd expect from Eikou Shibashi, and it is very, very enigmatic and it requires a certain kind of patience. It's sort of ambient in its pacing, but I thought it was very, very well worth your time. Evil does not exist. Evil does not exist, okay. Still to come on this podcast. We're going to be reviewing He Looks Down at His Thing.

Oh yes, well we've got… He looks down at his thing? I hope we're not going to be reviewing that. We're going to be reviewing the Godzilla Kong review, which we didn't do last week. We're going to do that in the charts because it wasn't screened until after we'd recorded the program. And we're going to be reviewing Seize Them and Monkey Man with our special guest… Who is Dev Patel, back after this.

This episode is brought to you by the curated streaming service Mubi. Mark, for our wonderful listeners who already have a Mubi account, and for those who might be thinking about getting one, could you please tell us what films they can enjoy this April? Well, for all comedy fans, the Funny Ha Ha Film Group is streaming on Movie UK from April the 1st, including Yannick, which is the Quentin DuPierre movie, which was shot in secret in just six days. That's streaming on Movie UK from April the 5th. And Tony Erdman, which you will remember me reviewing when it came out. I absolutely loved it. That is now streaming on Movie UK and it's really, really darkly hilarious and uncomfortable and wonderful. That's Mubi's funny ha ha series, what's on offer beyond the world of comedy.

You remember Perfect Days, the Vim Vendors film, we reviewed that. That is available, won the Best Actor award at Cannes this year and is a huge favourite among Vim Vendors fans. Some Vendors fans are saying it's one of his best. That's streaming on Mubi UK from April the 12th. You can try Mubi free for 30 days at Mubi.com slash Kermit and Mayo. That's M-U-B-I dot com slash Kermit and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. Well hello there, Simon and Mark here to tell you about Indeed. Yes, Indeed is driven by the search for better, but when it comes to hiring the best way to search

for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search. Match with Indeed. If you need to hire, then you need Indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform, with over 350 million global monthly visitors, according to Indeed data. And if you're busy watching all of this week's film recommendations and you have no time, then you can use Indeed for scheduling, screening and messaging, so you can connect with candidates faster. But Indeed doesn't just help you hire faster.

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to get your job's more visibility at indeed.com slash KermodeMayo. That's indeed.com slash KermodeMayo. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need indeed. Indeed. And the box office top ten, here we go. Courtesy of Comscore Movies. Oh. They've supplied us with the numbers and the information. Well thank you to them. Thank you Comscore Movies. They've supplied us with the numbers and the information.

Well thank you to them. Thank you Comscore Movies, we really like them. Thank you. Number 31. Am I paying for that? It's just a thing. Whenever I need a chart, I turn to Comscore Movies. Number 31, Silver Haze.

Which I think is great. This played at the Flair Festival and I was very proud to do it on stage with Vicky Knight, who is the star of the film. Vicky Knight and Esme Creed Miles are absolutely terrific in this film. You'll have to seek it out. It's a smaller release, but if you get a chance, do it. I thought it was a really brilliant drama. Migration is at number 10. Again, has done brilliantly. This has been in the charts for nine weeks and you know it's it's clearly found its audience. Wicked Little Letters in America 26 in the UK 9. Swearing is big and can be clever when it's written as entertainingly as this.

It is interesting that so many critics were sniffy about the film when it came out but actually we've had so much correspondence from people who are not me I wasn't sniffy about it I laughed all the way through because I think Olivia Colton's swearing is just funny. Number eight here, number nine in the States is Crew. Which I haven't seen because it wasn't press screened. Come on. Sorry. Number seven is Immaculate.

Which I think is really exciting and interesting, but I am furious that I did not come up with the pun, it should have been called Rosary's Baby. Yeah, that was last week. I know, I know. And I'm going to, in fact, I told the good lady professor her indoors, I said, I thought of the name for this thing, Rosary's Baby. She went, that's brilliant. I went, yeah, it wasn't me. Darn it. Anyway, great honesty at the heart of that marriage. Chris Brunker has emailed about the UK number six, which is Mother's Instinct.

And Chris says, dear pot and kettle, Mark describes, which is never a promising start, Mark describes Mother's Instinct as a pot boiler, saying of the film's heightened emotional tone that if you're going to have a pot boiler, the pot needs to be boiled. The phrase pot boiler refers to a piece of work, book, film, dashed off with minimal effort for immediate sale so the author can afford to pay essential bills, which doesn't seem fair to mother's instinct. Keep up the otherwise flawless work, Chris Brunker. No, I don't mean it in that way.

I mean, I mean a potboiler as in, I don't mean it as a derogatory term. I mean it as a positive term in the same way that I don't mean B-movie as a derogatory term or exploitation movie, which of course people think that exploitation movie means that the film is exploitative. Actually the term... For understandable reasons. It's an easy mistake to make. But of course it actually, I mean, it means exploiting.

I mean, what it originally meant was it was to do with exploiting headlines, as opposed to exploitative of the, it's a different thing. You know, anyway, there we are. So exploiting in the way you can exploit the earth's resources might be a good thing, but if it's exploitative, that's a bad thing. If only I had said it so clearly. Charles Brandreth would be impressed with that. He would, yes. Suzy Denwood would go, I wish I'd thought of that. Alan But would Charles Brandreth have come up with Rosary's Baby? Alan Almost certainly.

Alan Yes, I think he probably did, like 10 years ago or something. So that's it, number six. Number five, Ardhu Jeevatam. Alan Again, wasn't press screen, so I haven't seen it. Alan Number four, but number three in the States, Dune Part Two. I mean, what else is there to say other than if you haven't seen Dune Part Two and you love cinema, what are you doing? Because regardless, whatever you might think of, scientific-tion, what is it again?

Scientific-tion. Scientific-tion. It's like the worst word I've ever heard. Whatever you might think of that genre. Skiffy. Skiffy. You need to see Dune Part Two in the same ways you need to see Dune, because it's like the worst word I've ever heard. Whatever you might think of that genre, Skiffy, you need to see Dune part two in the same way you need to see Dune because it's just, it's like, look, this is what cinema can do. It's terrific. And I think the only other thing to say is it is being watched by fewer people than Ghostbusters Frozen Empire, which is number three.

It's been in the charts longer, that's why. So Ghostbusters is going down and this, you know, so that's been in the charts longer. That's why. So Ghostbusters is going down, and this, you know, so it's, that's the difference. Number two, Godzilla X Kong, the new empire. So this- Is it Godzilla times Kong? Is that what it is? Go figure, right? Okay. Godzilla times Kong, that's what it is. So they're together, are they working together? Shall I do the thing? Well, I don't know.

Okay, so we didn't- Just trying to understand the title. If you'll just give me a moment. Go ahead. We didn't review this last week because it was screened after we recorded the show. So, since when I've been to the cinema, I'd see it. So, fifth film in the monster verse. It follows on from Gary Edwards' Godzilla, which I liked, Jordan Voight-Robert's Kong

Skull Island, which I liked. And then Michael Doherty's Godzilla King of the Monsters and Adam Wingard's Godzilla V-Kong. This is now Adam Wingard back for Godzilla X Kong. Rebecca Hall, Brian Tyree Henry, Cally Hartley are back from the previous film. Dan Stevens is the new arrival. And he's an action vet. He's described at one point as Ace Ventura. He is in an opening sequence, early sequence, helicoptered into King Kong's open mouth in order to pull out one of his teeth. Oh, okay. That's interesting.

That's one of the action sequences. So, Kong is living in Hollow Earth. Godzilla is on the surface, maintaining the kind of peace between humans and the Titans. The two monsters must team up because there's a new, bigger, scarier thing that everyone's scared of and it's going to cause bad stuff to happen. So now they must all jump into the hole. What is this thing? It's just terrible. It involves frost. Is it Mr. Freeze? Mr. Freeze, you don't put me in the cooler.

Arnie is back. And they must go down into Middle Earth and do stuff, not Middle, well Hollow Earth, he's Middle Earth for all intents and purposes, with the last survivor of a lost tribe, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So here's the thing, everything was kind of leading up to Godzilla Kong, Godzilla V Kong, and then when you get there it's like, okay, well where do you go now? Because they've Godzilla and Kong, you know, you've got all the other ones, they've all been built out now, they've Godzilla and Kong, so.

They can have babies. No, they can't, because one of them is Godzilla and the other is Kong, they're not the same species. So anyway, at one point in this thing, Dan Stevens actually says, we are randomly throwing stuff. He doesn't say stuff. We are randomly throwing stuff at the wall. And that is literally what's happening in the film. They are just throwing everything at the wall to see if any of it sticks. So it's basically, it's not just a mashup of Kong and Godzilla, but Land of Time for God, because you've got this so secret dinosaur land, Planet of the Apes

and all its sequels, Transformers, because at one point Kong gets given a robot arm because he breaks his hand, then he gets given a Transformers arm so they can do that, Robocop I suppose the same thing, Doctor Who, everything everywhere, all at once, all happening, biggest thing ever in the world of bigness, Star Trek, Stargate, Lord of the Rings obviously, Mothra, every single thing that you can think of, it's just like, just throw everything at the wall. The script, well, there is a plot, but it's preposterous tosh, and it makes no sense, and it doesn't even try to make sense.

What it does is, in the way that we were saying before with Ghostbusters, where it was like, bo-bo-bo, Bill Murray, bo-bo-bo, Bill Murray. In this, it's stuff, stuff, stuff, rawr! Stuff, stuff, stuff, rawr! And that's all that happens. It's like literally big monsters appear and they look up at the sky and they roar and every now and then a death ray comes out of their mouth. Entire cities get destroyed. Rio flattened in about five seconds. No one cares. No one cares. And you don't think, there must have been 400 people in that building that just got trodden. No,

no one cares at all. And the reason is because it has no weight. The whole thing looks like a video game. The visuals are shonky CG and then some. It's just endless swinging and bashing and, you know, if you compare this to, and I know it's a crass comparison, but if you compare this to Godzilla minus one, right? Godzilla minus one, it's got weight, it's got heft, it's got beauty, it's got grace. This is literally, it's just like Super Mario does Godzilla. Dan Stevens has fun, Rebecca Hall keeps a straight face, Brian Terry Henry does the jokes. Apparently, there is a possible sequel on the way. But it's like, what else can you do?

Which letter of the alphabet? If they've used V and X. Godzilla Z. Godzilla Z Kong. Okay, that'll work. Godzilla Z Kong. That does sound like a... Should we pay for that? Sounds like someone's elaborate name. Okay, Godzilla Z Kong. It's probably someone in the phone book. Luke in Gloucestershire.

Yeah, go ahead. Dear Titanus Kermode and is it Mecha Mea? Yeah, Mecha. Mecha, okay. Went to a late night, as in leaving at 1am kind of late, Friday screening of Godzilla times Kong the New Empire in IMAX. I had a blast. I love Godzilla to bits and I've enjoyed all the varied, increasingly silly, monster-verse outings over the last 10 years.

This one was definitely not one of the best. I think maybe a result of a lack of real stakes and poor pacing, but I still had a great time. The crazy kaleidoscopic, sci-fi, skiffy visuals are spectacular, the insanely goofy fight scenes were a delight, and I enjoyed the film's various attempts at purely visual storytelling with its monstrous leads, as opposed to the standard human exposition dumps which sadly are also still there. Kong is a great lead, but I do wish my man G had more to do than gradually mutate into a new action figure range. When he's there, he delivers, but he's not there nearly enough."

Can I just say, visual storytelling implies that there is a story. There isn't. One of the reasons that the film, I think, was press-screened late was because they wanted to press-screen it on the biggest possible screen, because the one thing the film has going for it is big monsters stare at the sky and shout. And if you see, it's like, okay, it doesn't work and it doesn't make any sense, but if it's loud and big enough, people will come out and go, well, that was loud and big. Luke continues, nobody's going to accuse this film of being a top tier masterpiece. It's

as dumb as they come on the big screen, but I really do feel there's a space for films like that, so long as they're made with some degree of love and actual craftsmanship. Alongside the June Part Twosies and, yes, Godzilla minus onesies of the world, I had a great film. I had a great time. That's all that matters. All the best, Luke from Gloucestershire. I'm really glad you enjoyed it. It's rubbish. I mean, but it's not unenjoyable rubbish, but it is rubbish. Okay, I think that maybe you're agreeing. Does's rubbish. I mean, but it's not unenjoyable rubbish, but it is rubbish.

Okay, I think that maybe you're agreeing. Does Kung Fu Panda turn up at any stage? No, that will be the next one. Godzilla Z Kong V Kung Fu Panda. Because Kung Fu Panda number four is a new entry and it's number one. Yeah, well there we go. And hey, that's the end of the top ten. But don't forget there's the laughter lift. Cue the music. the end of the top ten. But don't forget there's the laughter lift, cue the music. Hey Mark. Yep. I hope you had an enjoyable Easter. I did. I opened one of my Easter eggs and I found a secret DVD inside. That's funny. We do things differently for Easter in showbiz North London. We have a fancy dress parade on Easter Sunday. I went down the street dressed as a screwdriver,

turned a few heads. That was better than the secret Easter eggs. Things not going too well at home you won't be surprised to hear. I've recently been struggling to get the attention of the good lady ceramicist there indoors but this weekend I finally succeeded. All I had to do was get nice and comfortable on the sofa with a good book and a glass of wine. That did the trick. What? It got her attention. Why did that get her attention? Because I was being a slob. I imagine. That's what I imagine. I often find that if jokes need explaining it sucks whatever humor there is. Anyway, we'll be back after this unless you're a Vanguardist, in which case we have just one question. What type of projectile did the US Navy destroyer USS O'Bannon use against a Japanese submarine

in April 1943? A missile? Right, Mark. Up next, that was another ad for NordVPN. Well, seeing as we've done so many riveting ads for NordVPN, how should we make this one stand out out Simon? Surely everyone, and I mean everyone who listens to this show already knows about the benefits of NordVPN.

Well that's a good point. I mean we could say that by using NordVPN you can access films in regions outside of your own, would that work? Well that is a good point, but I think we have already done that. What about mentioning that NordVPN can act as your cyber bodyguard, your virtual Kevin Costner? Yeah we've definitely done that because you've made that joke before. Okay, how about this? NordVPN can save you money on a range of online purchases by switching

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To get the best discount off your NordVPN plan, go to NordVPN.com slash take. Our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year plan. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money back guarantee. The link is in the podcast episode description box. Simplicity is everything. Go to nordvpn.com slash take for the best discount, which is huge, and get four extra months on the two-year plan. Simple as that. Hey, it's Ben Bailey-Smith here, Substitute Taker, and this episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Now, a lot of us spend our lives wishing we had more time. If I had an

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curmode. That's betterhelp.com slash curmode. So what was the projectile that the US Navy destroyer USS O'Bannon, Oannon, use against the Japanese submarine in April 1943? And the answer is potatoes. No, really? They shot potatoes at a submarine? That morning the crew of the Obannon detected that the Japanese sub had surfaced, but rather too close to use their traditional munitions. So they raided the ship's stores for potatoes, which the Japanese crew took for grenades and took evasive action. The O'Bannon was then able to use its non-potato-based death charges.

So they had their chips. And yes, that's right, that's what they did. They had their chips and ate them, to misquote. What that joke. Thank you. It was quite good wasn't it? I was very pleased with that. That's right. Secret DVD inside. So inside... It's now a shorthand, I think, for when you have to explain a joke. I thought the thing about relaxing on the couch with a good book was I...

I wasn't sure but I thought it was taking a turn for the French. Oh, I see. So you thought it was about... No, it doesn't matter what I thought it was about a turn for the French. Oh, I see. So you thought it was about... No, don't touch me. It doesn't matter what I thought it was about. Did you think it was about Onanism? Is that what you thought? For which I am shocked. I think that's where you were going with that one, just saying. Was Onan in the Bible for spilling his seed on the land? We need to move on, because our guest today is Dev Patel, who co-wrote, stars in, directs

Monkey Man in cinemas. Produces. Yeah, absolutely, from April the 5th. Slumdog, exotic, second best and best, Lion, of course, David Copperfield is fantastic. We've loved Dev Patel for a very long time. He stars as Kidd, a man on the path to find the people responsible for his mother's death and take revenge on them. We'll talk to Dev Patel after this clip.

What happened to your hands? Car crash. Engine caught fire. But you're living the life bro. We're rolling with the Kings now, huh? They don't even see us. They're all up there, living. I'm stuck here in this. That's not life, bro. So what are you going to do about this, Monkey Man?

And that is a clip from Monkey Man. I'm delighted to say you've been joined by its star, its producer, its writer and its director. How are you? I'm great. Dev Patel, fantastic to have you on the podcast. I think the last time you spoke to us was for Lion, but anyways, that's a very, very long time ago. The making of this film and the kind of genesis

of this story is fascinating, but just tell us who Monkey Man is. Introduce us to the world of your film. You know, he's basically an unknown kid, you know, one of the many underdogs of this fictionalized city called Yotana, who scrapes together Amiga earnings as an underground wrestler donning a rubber mask.

He's literally a performing monkey, and he's trying to infiltrate this club that's populated with the elite of society to try and get close to the corrupt men who took everything from him, basically. And he's called Kid. He has no name, so we just label him as Kid. A man with no name?

Yeah. And where did this story come from? What's the beginning of this story for you? You know, my grandfather, when I was a young child, he lived in Kenya. When he would come to London, he would tell me these stories, these old Indian mythological epics. And one of the characters in them was this character called Hanuman.

And that was, you know, Hanuman totally took my breath away he was this half man half monkey kind of simian superhero and as a kid who grew up kind of shunning his heritage and trying to hide away from it this was one part of the culture that I thought was just so cool and was I was like he's you know I think they've copied Superman from from Hanuman and he splits his chest open and he can fly and, you know, it's kind of been bubbling away in my head for over 10 years, the story. And is that true that Superman was kind of based in Hindu mythology? I mean, I don't have facts, but if you look at the kind of iconography of this,

kind of, there's a very famous image of him splitting his chest open, very much like Clark Kent does to reveal his, you know, Superman S or, even the way he flies, the kind of posture, or the way he holds a mountain, very similar. Okay, so you have this Hanuman story in your head, and then, but to turn that into a movie is a whole other idea, Where did that start from?

I'm a huge consumer of action cinema. I love the genre. And as a humble fan, and at that point in my career, I just wasn't getting access to the type of roles that I wanted. I was going to only be the funny sidekick in a movie like this, or the guy that hacks the mainframe. And also, I was kind of a little bit disgruntled

as an action fan of some of the more mindless kind of films that were being churned out. And I think that, especially if you look at the Korean cinema authors making these amazing revenge epics, I think it can hold more, it can talk about more, it can be filled with pathos and culture and politics and religion and all sorts of things. So that kind of was the birthing of this story. But you're the, as I mentioned, you're the producer and the star and the director.

Was that always the intention or did you have to be pushed? Actually originally I had hired a friend to write it and then the friend that was writing it, he's like, it's in you, I need your help. So I reluctantly joined him, took a seat beside him by his laptop and we basically co-wrote this thing together. And then I sent it to a filmmaker, Neil Blomkamp,

who I'd done a film with called Trappy. And Neil was like, yeah, that's right. And Neil was like, this is just in you. Like, you know, every frame and every corner of this movie, and I've never been to India, so you should do this. And I was reluctant at first, and he's like, no, you should really think about this. And then I took that and just ran with it, you know?

And it was a kind of by any means necessary approach to kind of birthing this thing. And just as a sidebar, you mentioned Chappie, and Shalto Copley is in your movie. Yes. As a kind of an underground circus ringmaster, presumably that's the connection, is it? Yeah, well, Shalto's just, we became friends very quickly

during that production, it was quite an insane production. And Shalto is such a gifted actor. He's a true chameleon and he will just ad lib and create some of the best stuff. And I went to dinner with him and I kind of pitched him the movie, which turned into a full three hour kind of like play for play of what happens.

And he came down during a very rough time at the beginning of the pandemic to give us this great cameo. So we often hear about films being quite a bumpy ride in terms of the production. You have COVID arriving in the middle. You have injuries when you're filming this epic story, which is going to be a huge hit.

I don't think there's any doubt. What I'd like you to tell us if you could is the difference that Jordan Peele made. And there were kind of two directories for your film, it seems, but that directory changed once you got the call from Jordan Peele. Yeah, I mean, there was many times in the production, we'd faced a lot of catastrophe on a daily basis.

Everything that could have gone wrong went wrong in the making of this. It was like my own personal heart of darkness. And then the film got picked up by Netflix, and I was trying to make a version of the film that it wasn't really, and it wasn't quite fitting into the template of what they wanted. And-

What did they want? I mean, I can't really speak for them, but it's not your action film that starts with action on page one and then continues with punches and kicks throughout. It's got more to it. For me, I wanted to create a Trojan horse, in a way, of a film.

And it does talk about, it's a revenge film about faith. It's about politics. It's about the caste system. It's about the outside of the underdog, the overlooked, the marginalized. All of these things, you know, deals with issues of violence against women and police brutality. And did Jordan Peele make that possible? In a way, so the film got dropped and I was kind of licking my wounds and then, you know, I get one of those amazing Hollywood moment calls where one of my agents was like,

you know, have you heard of this guy, Jordan Peele? I was like, of course I have. He had seen it three times. We got on the Zoom and we spoke for hours and hours. And he's like, I hope you don't mind. I've shared it. I have a first look deal with Universal and we want to release this.

And we went from oblivion to all of a sudden having a theatrical release. Can you, You've touched on a number of issues about the bigger story that's immersed in this action film. One of the things that I think a lot of people will take away is... There are two things I want to mention. One is the idea of trans women as heroes, and the other is the kind of vision of extreme Hindu nationalism being a very dangerous thing, which I hadn't seen done in this kind of vision of extreme Hindu nationalism being a very dangerous thing,

which I hadn't seen done in this kind of movie before. Could you explain why you were determined to put those in? Yeah, in a way, you know, it's interesting. You're using a kind of a mythology to kind of talk about the many facets of religion in society, how it can be manipulized and weaponized, and you can mobilize a large mass of people from it, and it can be monetized as well. And at the same time, in particular for this,

our lead character, this kid in a forest with his mother, the stories that populate his mind, that give him his moral grounding, are these iconographies like Hanuman. So there's a duality to it, you know, and I wanted to kind of touch on that, you know, in the film. Also, you know, when you look at the cast system,

you have this term called the Untouchables. You know, the Dalits of community that you wouldn't go near. We had Ava DuVernay on the show just a couple of weeks ago talking about her origin film, and she was talking about the Dalits of community that you wouldn't go near. We had Ava DuVernay on the show just a couple of weeks ago talking about her origin film and she was talking about the Dalits. Yeah, and for me the true untouchables are actually the elite, you know, the men and women whose feet don't touch the ground, they're so powerful, you know, they're so influential.

And India has that contrast. You can be in this, as White Tiger, the book explains it, this air conditioned cocoon, and look at the residents of the Ambani Tower, it's like the most expensive private residence in the world. And it's that kind of contrast that was fascinating for me. And I was like, how can I create a story of this every man trying to challenge a god amongst men?

And there's a very early story in the mythology of young Honoman who could have had any fruit in the forest and he yearned for a mango high above the trees, above the rest of them. And he got punished for basically eating the sun and that reminded me of Icarus and the stories I'd learned in school. And I was like, wow, that could be about, you know,

trying to challenge someone too big or too powerful or daring to reach too high. And that's where this kind of wrestler in this ring, a literal performing monkey came from. And it started, you know, kind of evolving from there. But in terms of the third gender, the hijra community, you know, sometimes you look at religion and religious philosophy and it was so ahead of its time. I've seen these temple carvings in India depicting these crazy, salacious sex acts

and all these sorts of things. And now you look at how confined things can be. And for me, I was looking at these, kind of studying these mythologies, and I saw this statue, the Ardhanari, which is half male, half female. And the idea of having part of yourself, that's devotion, the other part, destruction,

and just creating an interesting law that we have in the culture already. And for me, it's about an underdog that tries and fails and fails many more times before he finds other underdogs that kind of make him look at his trauma and his physical and internal scars differently. And through that, they kind of wage this campaign of vengeance and justice together.

You know, and that's what I thought Hanuman and his band of Vanu, his monkey legion did in the mythology. What kind of director are you? won't take no for an answer, is very optimistic and idealistic and chaotic. That's too many words. No, no, no, it is fascinating. And in terms of the tone of the violence, you must have been right at the heart of this, you know, you could be a 15 certificate,

it could easily have been an 18 certificate, how intense are we allowing this to be? What was your guide there? What did you think you could do and what did you not want to do? I just, you know, they're very close to what I wrote on the page, so I wasn't really thinking of the certificate per se,

I just wanted to create, I wanted to capture the essence of desperation in terms of action. You see a lot of like dense choreography nowadays and you can almost see the actor mouthing the choreo and it feels like, you know, a kind of rigid dance. And I wanted to, you know, find something more primal, this guy that will bite, you know,

there's a word in India they use in the slums, or anyway it's called jugad, which is like a sort of resourcefulness, by any means necessary, sort of adaptive attitude. And that's what I wanted him to kind of do. And we even hired one of the stunt men who was shooting the previsors on this cheap camera. And I was like, Steven, what do you want to do?

He's like, I've always wanted to operate a camera and be a DP one day. So I was like, now's your chance. And he started, we literally had a ninja, a stuntman with us, like moving with us. So it wasn't me against another guy. It was like, it was a threesome, so to speak. But have you had to make compromises? Have you had to make some edits to get it out to the cinema of the way? No, no, not really. No, no, the only compromise was when I broke my hand. make compromises? Have you had to make some edits to get it out to the cinema the way you want it?

No, no, not really. No, no. The only compromise was when I broke my hand, so I had to change most of the choreo to one-handed stuff to keep going. Yeah. So what do we get next, Dev? Are you going to think... Have you got the bug? Or are you thinking, do you know what, I don't want to do that again ever? It was tough. You know, there's a quote in the film from Indian philosophy, the pain will leave you once it's finished teaching you. And I feel like it's still teaching me.

So I don't know, but... You still in pain? I mean, I'm exhausted. I could do with a holiday. But no, it's been amazing and I do see things very visually and I'm very instinctual as a performer, so if I'm lucky enough to get another go at something, I would jump at it.

What are we seeing next? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Probably swimming costume on a beach. Yeah. Dev Patel, thank you so much for talking to us. Appreciate you, thank you so much. Okay, so we've heard from Dev Patel and his film is Monkey Man. I thought it was very impressive.

I thought it was going to be a 15, but I'm not sure I've got that right. No, it is actually an 18. As far as I understand it, there was a discussion about whether or not to edit it to a 15, but no, it's gone out as an 18. If you go to the BBFC site, it says 18 for strong bloody violence. Fight scenes include shootings, stabbings, fistfights, and use of improvised weapon,

often resulting in bloody detail, particularly a scene in a lift in which you go, don't do that with your, oh, you've done it anyway. And there we go. So this is Dev Patel's feature directorial debut. And I mean a very bold directorial debut. It looks like this is the work of somebody who's been directing for ages. So recap of the plot, he's anonymous.

He's referred to as Kid. We meet him as a kid being told the legend of the monkey-faced Hanuman who thinks the sun is a mango, flies up to it, swallows it, after which he is punished by the gods and the kid says, and what happens next? And then we then fast forward to that same kid now grown as a wrestler in a monkey mask, the performing monkey that he was describing. Shalto Copley is the ringling, the guy who does the internet. He's great. He's really enjoying himself. Kid has lost everything, including his mother. Now he's

trying to infiltrate an elite club in order to get some sense of retribution. In doing so, he will find himself coming face to face with corrupt power. You talked about brutal nationalism on the rise. False gods, a spiritual leader who has sold his soul to the devil for this rising leader, and the underdogs who will become his tribe, not least the Hijra community who he was talking about there who are on the Indian subcontinent there, intersex transgender people, and who in the film are a player, very, very important part. And you said there is a scene of great heroism involving them, which is, I think, one of the film's most enjoyable moments.

In that interview that you did with Dev Patel, he said, it's not an action film that starts with action on page one. Yeah, no kidding. The first hour of the film is very much character, backstory, establishing the world. I mean, there is action in the wrestling scenes, but in the wrestling scenes,

his character basically gets beaten up by other people, gets thrown out of the ring and bashed around and you know. And then that all climaxes in him going away to train. This is a kind of genre, TROPE will go and do a training thing and the training sequences which are played out to drums, you know, to hand play drums. And it's great. I mean, they're really, really good.

This guy's playing the drums and he's practicing all these. And then once he's got completely fit and ready and he's holding up the buckets of water and you're looking at Dev Patel thinking, wow, that kid from Best Exotic Marigold Hotel has certainly beefed up. And then the second hour is 18 rated carnage. And again, in that interview he said,

I want to create a Trojan horse. It's a revenge film about faith, about politics, the caste system, the outside of the underdog, the overlooked, the marginalized. It deals with issues of violence against women, police brutality. All of those things are true. And all of those things are what gives it weight. But I have to say just in terms of it being a slam dunk, good old John Wick style. And John Wick is actually, there is a joke about John Wick in the first hour in which he said the guy says Have you seen the John Wick thing? This is the gun that you need and of course then when we actually get to the action sequences

The guns are dispensed with it's one of those things in which there's an unwritten agreement There's one person and 30 henchmen, but they all agree not to shoot him What they have to do is fight him, you know one-on-one combat brutal bone crunching neck gouging set pieces, some great musical choices. I think the thing that I liked about it, well, I mean, apart from everything, is that it takes its time for the first hour to develop what the backstory is in the legend. I didn't know about the Honeymoon legend at all. In fact, I looked up some images of him tearing his chest open and flying. And Deppatel's right.

There are definitely elements of that that you can see, okay, well that looks like a Superman thing. But I love the fact that it took all that time to get to, okay, now we've got this world set up, we've established what's happened, and now we are going to kick ass in a major way. And the set pieces are really well done, very, very kinetic camera work. When he was talking about almost dancing with the camera and really kinetic camera work, I believed Dev Patel as that figure, which is kind of interesting because we know Dev Patel

from David Copperfield. I mean, obviously he's a versatile actor, but if you'd said to him, he himself said, the only way I would be in one of these movies is if I was the sidekick or the guy who hacks the computer. He very convincingly does the job of the avenging angel. You've seen the poster, which is the red image of him coming out of the lift. He pulls it off. And I thought it was great. I mean, I love the fact that it's 18 rated violence. I love the fact that they just went, no, this is the film that it is. Hats off to Jordan Peele for being the person who saw this and went, no, no, this has to be a cinema release and I'm going to give it my backing.

And I just, I thought it was great fun. I really, it's mad. I mean, it is completely mad. But the second hour of it is absolutely bonkers. But the first hour is kind of very adventurous in where it's taking all its influences from. You're quite right, the politics are in your face. There's nothing backfoot about it at all. It's absolutely about all these things and good for it.

Yes, it'll be interesting to see what kind of version emerges in Indian cinema as to whether they take out the extreme nationalist stuff, you know. It'll be a film about a flying monkey. Just before your next top review, top review, David says, dear admin and clerical as an NHS, you were talking about the clap clinic and you were talking about does anyone ever refer to the clap clinic? Yeah. I said, does anyone ever call them that anymore?

As an NHS manager who's worked in the big hospitals in my city for 20 years, including a stint in the GU clinic a few years ago, genitourinary medicine, I can confirm everyone still knows exactly what a clap clinic is. I think clap clinic is better than GU. Because particularly there's a particular type of chocolate mousse which is called goo, which is a capital G and a small U. And now I'm not going to be able to buy any because it'll mean something else. You just think of a strange stinging sensation.

The most entertaining thing about working at the Clap Clinic is the nights out. Watching our recent attendees either trying to chat up our nursing team, no thanks, they know exactly where it's been, or confusedly trying to work out exactly where they know the staff from before it slowly clicks and a mortified look creeps across their face. Yours, David, a man who managed to insert the phrase, but enough about us, let's talk about me into an appraisal. Excellent. David, thank you very much indeed.

One more movie to do. You know it's a Lemonheads gag. I didn't know that. Enough about us, thank you very much indeed. One more movie to do. You know it's a Lemonheads gag. I didn't know that. Enough about us, let's talk about me. Very good. David, five points. Love that. Well done, David.

That's fantastic. I would send you a free Lemonheads t-shirt if I had one, but I don't. What else have we got to talk about? Seize Them, which is a dark ages romp directed by Curtis Vowel. V-O-W-E-W-L. Dark Ages? Yeah, Dark Ages. Oh, right.

Okay. Yeah, Dark Ages. He made a babydoll with Rose Matafeo, which I reviewed back in 2020, written by Andy Riley, whose website says, Andy Riley writes and draws the Action Dude children's books, which you might have come across. He also wrote and drew the King Flushy Pants book series. He writes extensively for film and TV. His credits include Nomeo and Juliet, Pirates and an Adventure with Scientists, Ron's Gone Wrong and Horrible Histories. So this feels very much in the same vein as Horrible

Histories. Also very much in the same vein as Catherine Colberti, which you and I loved. Amy Lou Reed, who came on the Halloween show, remember her? She was in Living and she came on the Halloween show dressed as Miss Havisham. I remember. She was great. I then saw her on stage in Cabaret. She was absolutely brilliant. So she is Queen Dagen, who initially seems like a relative of Miranda Richardson's Queenie. We meet her in a court which is being besieged by a revolution led by Humble Joan, who's very, very humble.

She says, no, no, I don't require a title, just Joan. And when the rebels break in, the Queen says, seize them, which nobody does. That's where the title comes from. So she ends up fleeing with Maid Shulme, who is Lolly Adephope, and then they meet up with Nick Frost's Bobbik, whose job is a poo shoveler. That's not the word they use. The word they use is the other word. So they're heading for the coast, hoping to meet up with relatives from across the water who will restore her to her throne. I'm going to play you a clip. When I got sent this clip, it hadn't been birdsonged. I imagine by the time you hear it, it will have been.

Your throne is lost. When I was a girl, I watched my father punish traitors. He would cleave off their arms and shove them up their... And then he would cleave off their... And shove those up, whatever remained. Greetings, peasant! Your queen needs clothes. My name is Bobbik.

We'll walk to Fingerstone Rock to find new soldiers for the queen. We're gonna need a horse. They all died. A dragon then? Yeah, they're not real. Catherine Corbidy was a 12 for moderate sex references, violence and upsetting scenes. This is a 15 for strong language and injury detail. The BBFC description

says it's a black comedy set in a medieval period in which a queen flees for safety after a violent peasant revolt. Grizzly images result from the violence, though a humorous and often crude tone pervades. There is lots of swearing, lots of blood, and I have to say lots of fun. It passed the six laugh test easily, although the screening that I was in, the critics screening I was in, I think some other critics tired of the jokes earlier than I did because I have a very infantile sense of humor and I, you know, the swearing and violence, I'm sorry, just worked for me. The whole thing looks like it was shot for 10p. I mean, there are shots of like three, four, five people in a field or on a beach with two chairs.

That's the set. Like literally when they meet people across the water, there'll be two chairs on a beach. Oh, that's it. And I mean, what it's the kind of thing it used to have said it looked like a television film. Nowadays, television films look like feature films. This looks like what a television film used to look like before TV started looking like feature films. The cast are having great fun, but not in that indulgent way that means that we can't have fun as well, because everyone's that thing about the more fun it is to make, the less fun it is to watch. Humble Joan steals every single scene. I mean, the first time when she said, no, I'm Humble Joan, yes, no, no, no, I don't want to tell you. She's just

great, she's terrific. It does, oddly enough, have a serious point about Stalinism and how all power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And it has loads of bum poo, excretory jokes, many of them delivered by Nick Frost, many of them delivered by Amy Lou Wood. And I, being somebody of a childish sense of humor found all of that very funny. If you work in a genitourinary clinic would you find that funny? I think so. I think so. That is the end of take one, thank you.

This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Lily, Gully, Vicky, Zacchi, Mathias and Beth. The producer was Jem, the redactor was Simon. Simon Poole that is, obviously. The voice in your head. The voice in your head. What is your film of the week? Well Monkey Man.

I mean obviously. I mean obviously. Take two is already available and has landed alongside this particular take. Thank you for listening, see you soon.