Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Does Conclave get Mark’s blessing? With Ralph Fiennes and Stanley Tucci

Episode Date: November 28, 2024

Two divine guests this week as Ralph Fiennes and Stanley Tucci join Simon to discuss ‘Conclave’, the papal political thriller from ‘All Quiet on the Western Front’ director Edward Berger. Set in the Vatican’s pontific conclave, where cardinals are sequestered during the selection of the new Pope, the film follows the taut power struggle as these men of the cloth vie for the Catholic Church’s top job. The pair talk faith and doubt, Isabella Rossellini, and whether those robes can possibly be comfortable??? We find out whether Mark thought the film was a spiritual experience, or should be atoning for cinema sins... As well as Conclave we’ve got reviews this week of ‘Moana 2’, sequel to the 2016 Disney smash where this time the Polynesian not-a-princess must journey to the lost land of Motufetū to lift a curse from her island community—and ‘Your Monster’, the comedy-horror-musical mash-up that sees dumped and depressed actress Laura unexpectedly reunited with the childhood monster from under her bed. Plus your stellar correspondence adds more names to the overly-polite Brits abroad league table, and we’ve got more on Galdiator II space monkeys too. Our Christmas Spectacular with Mark and Simon live onstage at London’s Prince Edward theatre is now sold out! Event info here: https://www.fane.co.uk/kermode-and-mayo Timecodes (for our ad-free Vanguardistas): Moana 2 Review: 06:35 Ralph Fiennes and Stanley Tucci Interview: 24:08 Conclave Review: 41:16 Your Monster Review: 53:36 You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] And to find out more about Sony’s new show Origins with Cush Jumbo, click here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey Mark, I found that I've been thinking recently about merch. Merch? Yes, merchandise, especially all those goodies we have for sale online, you know, branded mugs, t-shirts, water bottles, you name it. The torch, the director's chair, the full works. I wish someone had told me about Shopify, the all-in-one commerce platform to start, run and grow your own business. I know all about that. So Shopify is the commerce platform revolutionising millions of businesses

worldwide, whether you're selling herrings or Harrington jackets with the take logo on the back. Shopify simplifies selling online and in person so you can successfully grow your business. Shopify even gets you selling across social media marketplaces like Facebook, Instagram and TikTok with industry leading tools. Get Shopify today. Sign up for a £1 per month trial period. Can't we fix this? Shopify.co.uk slash. Curmode. All lowercase. All lowercase. I mean, what is wrong with Kermode and Mayo? Why can't it be Mayo just for once? It's easier to spell curmode. They've gone for Shopify.co.uk slash, let's say it together, curmode. Behind every great movie, there are always great stories, and to hear the best of them

check out The Mubi Podcast. Every episode is a fast-paced deep-dive documentary for your ears about how a movie left its mark on the world. The newest season tells the twisty tales of six great films that were massive flops but then got rediscovered, from William Friedkin's Sorcerer to George Miller's Babe Pig in the City. The season is based on the book Box Office Poison by Tim Roby, film critic over at The Telegraph. Guests include legends like Roger Deakins and Babes, Farmer Hoggett himself, MUBI Podcast. Catch it on your favourite pod platform. Were they sleigh bells on there? Mason- The merest hint. A very light dusting of sleigh bells.

Mason- Well, I think that's appropriate because it is autumn, it's not winter until Sunday. December 1st, okay. But if you're listening to this earlier than that, you'll be thinking, sleigh bells in autumn feels wrong. I think you have to be a purist about this. When is it officially all right to start hearing sleigh bells? Well, I think it's winter, I think it's December 1st. So the first piece of Christmas When is it officially all right to start hearing Slaybells? Well, I think it's winter, I think it's December the 1st. So the first piece of Christmas music I'm playing is on Sunday afternoon's album show. And that's kind of like Run Run Rudolph by Brian Adams.

So that's okay. Run Run Rudolph is Chuck Berry, not Brian Adams. Yeah, yeah, no, it's a version of the Chuck Berry song from 1958 on chess records, but this was on the special Christmas compilation from the one with the Keith Heron cover in Red and Gold. Okay. Are you going to be playing anything from Nick Lowe's fabulous Christmas album that

you introduced me to that is one of the greatest Christmas albums of all time? Well it is and no, I'm not. Okay. Unless someone writes in. You're not going to play Christmas at the airport? Well I'll write in. Okay, well you can write to play Christmas at the airport? Well, I'll write in. Okay, well you can write in. What's the address?

Will you email Simon at greatestitsradio.co.uk? I'll do it straight away and I'm going to request Christmas at the airport by Nick Lowe. Okay, and then say reference the album show and then that'll be fine. Anyway, what would it make me? Am I a long time listener, first time emailer? I guess that would be right. Okay. Yes. Have you never emailed? No, you never have. No, I've never emailed. I just usually ring you up. Yeah. Okay. Well, do that and I'll see what happens. It might not get through the pop-tastic filter, but. It's Nick Lowe, how much more pop-tastic than Nick Lowe can you get?

Christmas at the airport is lovely. Yellow, ABBA. Well, how about Stop Like Roses? No, no, it's not very Christmassy, but. No. No, no, no, Christmas at the airport, I think is great. Anyway, so welcome to the final autumnal show before we go Christmas crazy. I should say,

Mark, that my watch and phone are in cahoots. Right. Word of uncertain origin, but possibly from the word cohort. Okay. Tell me that I slept for five and a half hours last night, whereas actually I know that I slept for five and a half minutes. So if at any stage I kind of, if it, I know you can see me, if it looks as though I'm just nodding off, just shout. Okay. I'm, we yell into the microphone. Well, I, the good lady, professor, her indoors this morning went off to work, um, announcing that she had actually spent

most of the night in a different room because apparently she couldn't stop me snoring and she couldn't wake me up. So I had a great night's sleep, but apparently it was bad for everybody else. And apparently the cat wouldn't come in the room because of the noise. My goodness me, that's hardcore. And then the first thing that I heard on the news this morning was people who have disrupted sleep patterns are like 25% more likely to die of heart attacks and stroke. So I thought fantastic. I'm just going to put on a CD of Nick Lowe at Christmas.

Anyway, so on the show, it's a rocking show, Mark will be reviewing these films. Yeah, Big Week, Moana 2, and Your Monster, which is a real surprise, and of course, Conclave with our fantastically special guests. Mason- Yes, they are fantastically special. Stanley Tucci and Ray Fiennes, who are all cardinaled up in this movie. And for Vanguard Easter's, in our special bonus section, what you're doing there? Toby- Yeah, reviews of The Contestant, which is a really eye-opening documentary, and the

animated film That Christmas. Plus, our recommendation feature TV Movie of the Week, Watchlist, Notlist, etc. where you can find the best and worst movies to watch over the next three days. Questions, questions will be there and you can get everything via Apple podcasts or head to extra takes.com for non fruit related devices. A seven day free trial is a lovely thing. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter as always together, we, we, we salute you very good or not together at all. Deb Green, Deb Green, who actually signs herself Deb Green brackets, but not wicked green. Read the emergency mails about polite Brits abroad, which there have been quite

a few. Yes. I was part of a local group backpacking in India in the 90s, visiting some amazing NGOs and people in rural India. On our first day in India, we decided to spend the night in Mumbai and were soon spotted by a young man who was very keen to find us somewhere to stay. Our leader said this was a great idea and the young man pushed us into two packed cars to take us to a place. There was lots of excited chatter from the place when we arrived and we were then ushered into two rooms. Being the youngest adult, I was told

to go with the 16 and 17 year olds, one being a senior guide. There were about five beds, no windows, but a flushing toilet, so pretty good in the run of things. So we settled in. After a while, we could hear noises of a man in an energetic state in the room next to us. Realizing we were staying in a brothel, I panicked and thought of my role as responsible adult and how I could boost the morale of my younger travellers. Looking at the senior guide, I took a deep breath and said, okay, join in then. Ging, gang, gooley, gooley, gooley, gooley, watcha, ging, gang, goo. And we all joined in singing the ging, gang, gooley song. We sang for a while and even managed to start a round. The noises stopped and I imagine the confused punter left. We then slept pretty well and of course, thanked

the proprietor fully in the morning for their hospitality. Hello to Jason, loving the show, Steve Deb Green, but not wicked. I mean, there's a thing. If you taking a party and you crash somewhere to realize it's a place for ladies of the night. Or what does Robin Williams say? Women in comfortable shoes. Which I never quite understood, but it was quite clear what he meant. Anyway, correspondents at cobedomeo.com, Mark, tell us something that's out and groovy. Yeah, Moana 2, the sequel to the Disney animation, which was a joyous tale of a Polynesian teenager's quest to save her homeland.

Great animation, great songs, really good voice performance by Lee Cravallo, who was a newcomer at that point, joined in the voice department by Dwayne Johnson, who was doing the kind of, Dwayne Johnson gets to sing that thing, that you're welcome, so he's the demigod, which is a fantastic song by Lin-Manuel Miranda. And then there was the half-witted chicken sidekick. Anyway, the whole thing was great. I absolutely loved the original.

So now, many years later, we get a sequel. And apparently we get the sequel, not because of the film's performance at the box office, but because of how well it's done on streaming. And the fact that it's been seen over and over again. It's clearly an absolute favorite. Originally Moana 2 was developed as a straight to Disney plus streaming venture and then they thought, no, no, actually it's bigger than that. It's a movie.

Original screenwriter Jared Bush returns alongside Daniela Duh Miller who co-directs with David Derrick and Jason Hand. And then new songwriters, so some old team, basically new team. Set three years after the first film, Moana is looking for other peoples on islands around her own island. She discovers that there was an ancient island which was cursed by a power-hungry god and that island used to connect all the peoples of the sea. So she sets out on a quest to find it and discovers that the island has been sunk to the

bottom of the ocean and cursed. So she must find Dwayne Johnson's demigod, who is trapped in some weird gastrointestinal hell, which is too complicated to explain, break the curse, set foot on the island, which will then make the island real again, and solve all the problems. So no biggie. Here is a typically entertaining clip of Johnson as the demigod. Okay, rule number one. You never saw me like this, even though I still look very cool. You look like a kidney stone. And you look like someone who would know what that is. Now...

Well, hello, Bacon. Okay, I feel like there's some backstory that I need to get caught up on. Oh, yeah. Actually, you know what? Scratch that. I love the clips that we get from animated films because they're always miked properly. You know, you can always hear what the voiceover artist is saying. I do love that thing. You look like a kidney stone and you look like someone who would know what that is. Anyway, so bear in mind, Dwayne Johnson is currently in Red One, which is also a Christmas movie offering. This is the one, just ignore Red One, this is the one. So what this doesn't have is it doesn't have

the clear line kind of simplicity of the plot of the original. And I have to confess that there aren't songs that have the immediate earworm catchiness of Your Welcome, which I came out of the first one singing. What it does have is Eli Corio and Dwayne Johnson back in the lead roles reminding us what a really likable double act they are. It's also got some genuinely spectacular C-bound action sequences in the second half, which offset the incredibly weird stuff in

the first half in which they're all trapped within a giant clam and getting sprayed by a cocktail of digestive juices, which is really kind of oddly David Lynch. Also, once again, strong female lead who is not a princess, despite the fact that Mary says a lot of people think you are not a princess. There's the whole thing about, you know, yeah, you've got an animal sidekick, you're a princess. Not looking for a love interest either, just looking to lead and save her people. There's some genuinely funny stuff with the Kakamora coconut pirates, um, who still look like they've escaped from a Mad Max sequel.

There's some more funny stuff with the chicken and the pig. And I laughed out loud a good few times and I was swept along in the adventure of it all. out loud a good few times and I was swept along in the adventure of it all. I mean, it's not Moana, but okay, fine. When you consider how far they could have fallen considering how good Moana is, I think this is pretty solid entertainment. It's great fun for girls and boys and the animation is really sweeping and I enjoyed it. Like I said, I laughed two or three times and this was the first thing on a Monday morning. I had come up from Cornwall and I had had the journey from hell due to flooding and it put a spring in my step.

Mason- And you can't say better or fairer than that. Okay, so that's another festive period hit you would imagine. Let's look at the other hits with the box office top 10, starting at number 11, which is Layla. Kat Ashworth on our YouTube channel, I saw this at a free preview a couple of weeks back. I went in knowing nothing but the title and I loved it. I probably should caveat that by saying I'm non-binary myself. I cringed during scenes of dead naming and internally cheered when Princey corrected Max. Leila and my own experiences of being non-binary are different, but I felt so seen, according to Kat. Yeah, I mean, I think this is Amaral Khaddi's feature debut. And I think the thing that's really good about it is that the story is very specific to Amaral Khaddi's own lived experience of the world. But I think its appeal is universal.

I think the story that it tells is something that could be appreciated by anybody. I'm really impressed that you went to see a movie called Layla just on the basis of the title and you didn't know anything about it. And that's a real real punt to take and I'm really glad you like it because I think it's a really interesting film. Number 10, The Magic Reindeer, colon, saving Santa's sleigh. Yes, so I haven't seen this but I can report it's a Finnish-Irish animation that reworks the themes of The Lion King. I know nothing more about it than that. If anyone's seen it let us know.

Finnish-Irish collaboration, that's intriguing. Well, a lot of animation is international co-production. If you think, for example, things like The Red Turtle, that had a number of different elements. I think the studio it was based in was actually Belgian, I think. Anyway, with animation that often happens. It'll be one of those Scandinavian countries, Holland or something like that. Yes, that's right. Number nine, Venom, The Last Dance, probably the last week as well. Yes, I would think so. This is its fifth week in the charts. I mean, a complete car crash of a film,

but people apparently enjoyed it. Number eight, well, now I've got Listy do M6, brackets, letters to Santa six, close brackets. So this is the sixth part of a popular Polish series, letters to Santa, again, not press screened. So if you have seen it, let us know. Correspondence at kovenabair.com. And if you've seen that and Saving Santa's Slay,

then you're doubly worth it. And we will cherish you forever. We'll definitely reach you. Number seven, small things like these. Great performance by Kelly and Murphy. The interesting thing about this drama is I had wondered at the time when it was first released whether or not it was going to be too low key to draw an audience. I have spoken to several independent cinema managers who said that they have virtually been turning people away from screenings because

it's doing so well. So very, very impressive that in its fourth week this is still doing that and a real credit to Killian Murphy's power to draw people into the cinema. And it comes up in correspondence a bit later on. The Wild Robot is at number six. Yeah, lovely to look at. Very sweet, melancholic animation. I enjoyed it very much and from the correspondence that we've had it seems that most people have. It's number seven in America. Number five here is Heretic. It's number eight in the States.

It's Hugh Grant in his, well I think this is, yeah in his pump, but also, we were saying before, I think this is the very finest moment in his, well, I think this is, yeah, in his pump, but also, like we were saying before, I think this is the very finest moment in his career. He's arrived at a point when he appears not to be able to put a foot wrong and he's great in Heretic and it's a really entertaining film. It does lose its way in the last third, but he holds the whole thing together.

And I just think it's really impressive that at this point in his career, he is at the very height of his powers. Red One is at number four. Yeah, if you want to see a Dwayne Johnson film, go and see Moana too. You really don't need this in your life. Also, remember, if you pay to go and see it, you'll just encourage them to make Red Two. Number three is Paddington in Peru, not enough Sanjeev. They do take Paddington away from London, which sort of undermines the Paddington

brief. That said, it's a film which celebrates the best in all of us. I think, as you were saying before, it's that version of Britain that we would all like to believe is true, in which in the end, we are loving and caring and welcoming. And generous and open-hearted. I guess you could say in its favour, although it does leave London, and I get the London point, he's not going to the Isle of Wight, or the Isle of Man, or the South of France, or Spain. He actually comes from Peru, so therefore, at least in the story, there's a reason for him going to Peru. Yes, there is a logic to it, yes.

Gladiator 2 is at number 2. So there's been much correspondence, as you know, about baboons. About, okay, they're not space monkeys, they're baboons. And then somebody sent me a thing on Instagram, said, have you seen this? It's a baboon with alopecia. And this is the closest thing that I have seen to the space monkeys in Gladiator 2. And they showed, there's a picture of a real thing. No, they're space monkeys. I mean, they may well be baboons. Like at some point, they've been altered, haven't they? I mean, I love this. Firstly, first things first, they're not real in any way at all. They're made up by a computer. But secondly, I am absolutely certain that at that point in the discussion, by which point I presume they'd already decided to put the sharks in

the Coliseum. Are you trying to say the sharks are not real? Come on. Here's the thing that the more I think about this, I mean, I really enjoyed Gladiator 2. I really did. It makes no sense, but I really enjoyed it. The thing that the more I think about it makes me, how did they get the sharks there? I mean, what did they do? Did they catch the sharks in the sea and then put them in a tank and then transport the tank from the sea to Rome? How did they get there? Yeah, absolutely. That absolutely is one of the many points that you go,

I don't think so. Smash Brothers Assemble on our YouTube channel, every time Ridley Scott makes a film, the movie gods flip a coin. Julian Bailey, also on our YouTube channel, did anyone else want to shout out loud, what's on the scores, George Dawes, every time Matt Lucas appears? Yes, I did. It's a very strange moment. Overall, a mere film that had good moments and I will happily never watch again. I can see the vision that they were aiming for, but got nowhere near. Tokyo Dove says, I was surprised how

incredibly contrived the plot is. The climax of which seems to rely entirely on the decision of one random general we've never heard of or seen before agreeing to move his army against Rome because of a random courier brings him a ring and tells him that a lost prince who everyone thought had been dead for over a decade had suddenly returned. Their point about it all kind of falling apart if you think about it for too long extends to the motivations and choices that many of the characters make as well. Thank you, Tokyo Ducks. But, how did the sharks get there? Sorry. Yes. My next question for Ridley, if we meet again.

Yong Yong Lulu says, one of the film reviewers, oh sorry, out of all the film reviewers, only Mark could find a way to mention Nick Cave, Caligula and his hatred of Jared Leto's House of Gucci performance in a Gladiator 2 review. I mean, Yong Yong's got a point, I think. No one else mentioned it. Although the Nick Cave thing wasn't crowbarred in, it was a real thing. Nick Cave really did write the story in which Russell Crowe goes to hell, fights the gods, gets sent back to earth to kill Jesus. I mean, that's a real thing. the gods get sent back to earth to kill Jesus. I mean, that's a real thing. That's number two. Number one here and in the States, and as we say occasionally, it's very number one, it's Wicked. Craig Scowler in Glasgow, age 42. Dear Elfaba and Glinda,

long-term listener, second-time emailer, my 10-year-old daughter and I went to see Wicked on Friday night. I could complain about having to drive 12 miles to find a cinema that had two seats together despite booking five days in advance. I could complain about the sea of screens that made the first 20 minutes of the film feel like a Coldplay concert. I could complain about the woman next to me who scoffed her way through a promotional metal bucket of popcorn, only to then refill it with M&Ms, which made it sound like she was conducting an FA Cup draw from the late 1980s. Stevenage will play number seven, Knott's County. However, I'm not going to complain about any of those things.

Instead, I just want to say that Wicked, part one, was what cinema was made for. A Friday night, a packed house, cheers, gasps, laughs, tears, and finally, applause. Streaming and home entertainment has its place, but on Friday night, as we all stood to applaud in unison, I was reminded that nothing, and I mean nothing, will ever replace the cinema going experience. Thank you, Craig. And on the subject of applause, because I was talking that nothing, and I mean nothing, will ever replace the cinema going experience. Thank you, Craig. And on the subject of applause, because I was talking about this, about Wicked at Wickedie Wawa at Greatest Hits.

And yes, there were, I think that two of the people in the conversation, there had been applause at the end, which I don't think we've had, correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think we've had a listener write about applause at the end, which I don't think we've had, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think we've had a listener write about applause at the end of the film since the King's speech. I think you're right. Which came from a listener in Dublin who was making the point that for people to applaud the British King in Dublin is quite a moment. And it is a very rare thing for an audience to spontaneously applaud.

Here's the even more interesting thing. People applauding at the end of the King's speech became a news story. One of the reasons that was attributed to it was that the King's speech was attracting an older audience. It was doing very well with the cup of tea and a biscuit screenings, the silver screenings. The thing with Wicked is that is not the case. Wicked clearly has a demographic which is far younger than the King's Speech. So in a way, the idea that people are applauding

at the end of Wicked, I mean, I know the reason that's been given is it's like the theatre. If the curtain closes at the end of the first half, you all applaud. But I think the fact that the younger audience of Wicked is doing it is even more remarkable than that the older, generally older audience of The King's Speech are doing it, were doing it. It's probably the first film that most of the audience have applauded at the end. And also, we're into showman territory here because everyone at work was planning to go and see it again. Actually, in that case, I wonder whether people did applaud at the end of The Greatest Showman. I don't remember. I remember people going multiple times and singing along.

And of course, the sing-along thing has been a big, big news story. There's been all this stuff about, okay, don't sing. People are going to the cinema in order to hear Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo, they don't need to hear you doing it. And then there are of course actual sing-along screenings. And there was a joke on Jimmy Fallon about this huge bucket of popcorn that could be used to be put over the head of anyone singing. So that has become an issue, apparently. I love the film. I haven't seen the stage show. I absolutely love the film. Have you seen it yet? You'd be tempted. No, I haven't. But you'd be tempted if someone is filling a metal bucket with M&Ms.

I know that's ridiculous. That's a racket. Yeah, but that's not singing along. That's filling a metal bucket with M&Ms. I mean, who goes to the cinema with a metal bucket of popcorn? Your verdict, please, once you've seen it. Do people applaud? Are they applauding spontaneously? Are you going more than once? Maybe you don't even like it. In which case, correspondence at cobanamer.com. Back in just a moment with Mark talking about these films. We have a review of Your Monster, which is a real surprise and conclave with our super special guests

who are Ray Fiennes and Stanley Tucci, who you'll hear after this. and Stanley Tucci, who you'll hear after this. Hi, Teg listeners. We're coming to you from Vanuatu to talk about NordVPN. Where you are, I'm in Tristan da Cunha, the British overseas territory in the South Atlantic. Well, fancy that. Anyway, we could be anywhere in the world, that's the truth. With NordVPN's help, we can unlock content and streaming services from right back at home and 111 other countries with absolutely no problems. And I'm not suggesting there is, but if anyone on Tristan da Cunha was trying to hack me, they'd find it pretty hard. My online activity is totally safe with encryption, dark web alerts and tools to secure public Wi-Fi.

Not only that, it's the fastest on the market. If Tottenham are playing in the 5.30 kickoff, that's a lovely half past four in Tristan da Cunha, but half past three in the morning Pacific time, I can stream it as if I'm right there in showbiz North London. Score a massive discount on NordVPN's plan by heading to nordvpn.com slash take. Plus, with our link, you'll get an additional four months free on the two-year plan. And with Nord's 30-day money back guarantee, there's zero risk. Check out the link in the episode description. This episode is brought to you by MUBI, a curated streaming service that brings you the best of cinema. Nothing but ambitious films by visionary filmmakers, each thoughtfully

handpicked by MUBI's curators. If there was ever a sign that Divine Intervention existed, this is it. Because I'm back to talk to you again about The Substance, which is my favourite film of the year so far. This is an absolutely brilliant jaw-dropping masterpiece from Carly Fajard. It stars Demi Moore and Margaret Qualley. It is one of those body horror films that is incredibly deep and weird and strange and provocative. Absolutely thrilling. It's one of the things that reminds you that films at their best are one of the most exciting things on the planet. I absolutely love this film. It won best screenplay it can. Frankly, it should have won everything. It's fab. You can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com slash Kermode and Mayo. That's MUBI.com slash Kermode and

Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Season's greetings, one and all. Christmas is one of those times, isn't it, that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. For me, Christmas is all about making your house so cosy that when you come home from work, no matter what social event is on offer, you are not going out again and you have zero problem with that. Fairy lights, blankets, yes. And therapy is kind of like that blanket that stays wrapped around you, you know, even when things get more complicated than we'd like. I've benefited from therapy myself and I know a lot of other people who have as well, even if they weren't sure about giving it a try at first. And you know, it's not just for crises, it helps with setting boundaries, self-empowerment and loads more besides. And with over 5,000 therapists in the UK already, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a wide variety of expertise in mental health.

So find comfort this December with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash Curr Mode. That's betterhelp, h-e-l-p dot com slash curmode. Okay so this week's guests are two of the Suavist Papal candidates you could wish for, Stanley Tucci and Ray Fiennes star in Conclave, a tense drama set during the fractious election process for choosing the next Pope, all based on Robert Harris' novel of the same name. You can hear from Ralph and Stanley after this clip. Am I the last?

Not quite. How are you? Oh, well, you know, fairly dreadful. Have you seen the papers? Apparently it's already decided it's to be me. And I happen to agree with them. Not quite. How are you? Oh, well, you know, fairly dreadful. Have you seen the papers? Apparently it's already decided it's to be me. And I happen to agree with them. What if I don't want it? No sane man would want the paper seen.

Some of our colleagues seem to want it. What if I know in my heart that I am not worthy? You are more worthy than any of us. I'm not. Well, then tell your supporters not to vote for you. To pass the chalice. And let it go to him, I could never live with myself. And that is a clip from Conclave. I'm delighted to say that two of its stars,

Ralph Fiennes and Stanley Tucci, are joining us. Gentlemen, hello, how are you? Good, thanks. How are you? I still feel, having just watched the movie, that I'm in the presence of two eminent cardinals. The cardinals in question, Cardinal Lawrence played by Ray Fiennes and Cardinal Bellini played by Stanley Tucci. It's an amazing film.

It's a fabulous story. Robert Harris wrote the original. Just introduce us to where we are with your film. Yeah, it is a beautiful film. It's a great story. I first came across the book when it came out about four years ago. Read it, loved it then because I'm Robert Harris obsessed. Me too. Robert Harris obsessed. Me too. And then the script came to me and I just thought it was beautiful.

And then he came along, thank God, and it happened. So where do you join this story then, Rafe? Well, I hadn't read the book. I was sent Peter Straun's wonderful screenplay, Tessa Ross producing, and Edward Ber Berger whose work I'd seen of the series with Benedict Cumberbatch on television And loved his work then but was having I met him for this loved the screenplay loved the part of Cardinal Lawrence Who is this? I suppose the figure who's guiding the conclave. Yes

And then had saw Edward Berger's Orquart on the Western Front, which blew me away. I thought that was an extraordinary piece of filmmaking. So it was doubly excited to be approached to play Lawrence. So we're putting all the ducks in a row here. So we've got a Robert Harris novel. We've got a Peter Straughan screenplay. We've got Edward Berger directing. We've got Ralph Fiennes,play, we've got Edward Berger directing,

we've got Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, Isabella Rossellini. That's enough, people are going, okay, I want to see that film. It must have felt almost as though we were watching a play, because you're all locked in. Was it fun to make when you're all in the gear? When the cameras stop rolling, are you having a good time? I think what was... I think we both agreed that the writing, the dialogue, the scenes we got to play, were so great, and like great writing for a play, too, but this was a film,

but there were scenes meaty scenes where the tension and antagonism or the competition or the the playoff the standoff I should say between characters was really wonderful to play I mean when you get a screenplay I think you quickly you'll get look at the dialogue and you get a taste of how it's playable what can be said what can be not said actually around lines and it's all the possibility of what the face can say in and around the spoken word. And that's what Peter's, so that's the first thing that's exciting is it's alive with the acting challenges and the sort of the stuff you can do with your screen partner.

That was all there sort of sizzling on the page. Yeah. And I wonder if, I think, is it Olivier who said, once you put on the shoes, you understand the character? I wonder if it's one of those roles that once you wear the gear, it all falls into place or had it fallen into place before that? No, that pushes it over the edge. I mean, that's the thing that Once you put it on you it's like putting a uniform on

Suddenly you see this completely different person And it just simply feels different. I'm a huge one for The costume has to be absolutely right and this was absolutely right and they were not pleasant to walk around in all day, I got news for you, but they helped. Yes, it doesn't look comfortable I have to say. Actually interestingly they were, interesting structure because you wear, they are quite well fitted to the top half of the body so there's sort of quite a helpful corseting effect in that you're sort of held by the structure of the sutein or the upper part.

And then you've got the skirts that fall away, which, you have to get used to walking upstairs with these skirts or otherwise you trip over. I love the way it's recorded, the sound is amazing. We hear every creak of the leather that you're sitting on, every rustle of the robe, every breath you take, I think, Rafe, particularly. I feel as though we've heard everything and it's, I don't know, was it particularly closely miked? Was that kind of added on after? I don't know,

it just sounds amazing. Some breathing was added on because I think Edward felt he wanted to be, wanted to feel in proximity to Lawrence that the audience would feel in his physical space. Explain what Lawrence is up against here. He's clearly running a conclave, so he's responsible for the election of a new pope. That's right. But essentially you become a detective really, you're trying to unravel a whole number of stories as the... He's the Dean of the Vatican, so once the Pope is dead, the Dean's job is to make sure

the conclave, which is when all the cardinals come together, they're sequestered, they're cut off from the world while they go through the process of electing the next Pope, his job is to make sure that goes smoothly. And it starts off when the cardinals arrive and the doors of the Vatican close and they're ready to start the process. But quite quickly, little things, little bits of information. There is inevitably, I mean, I think the first thing Robert Harris does and Peter Straughan in the script is to establish, despite being men of the cloth, politics are there. And I think it's no secret that the Catholic Church is divided into sort of the conservative branch and the more liberal branch.

And the big question is how does the Catholic Church modernize itself? And there are those as portrayed by Stanley, his cardinal is of the liberal faction. That's very clearly understood at the beginning. I'm a moderating character, just want to make sure the process is okay. But Sergio Castellito, a great Italian actor, plays the very much more right-wing cardinal. So the political playoff is established quite quickly, and out of that it grows. As Lawrence eyewitness, these sort of edges emerge as the standoff gets a little bit more

fraught and a bit more intense. And then outside things happen, which affects the conclave. So things happen that are unexpected, which notch up the drama and the sense of the competition and the sense of who's going to get the gig. Tell us a bit more about Bellini, Stanley, because as Ralph said, you're very much the are you the most liberal candidate in that? Probably the most liberal, yeah. One of the most liberal.

Do you want the job? Do you not want the job? Well, he doesn't know he doesn't think he wants the job. But as it, but he does. But he does. And that's sort of the beauty of the role and the writing is that each of these characters is not just this sort of one dimensional.

They're incredibly complex, like people are in real life. And people don't always know what they want or what they think they want or what they think they don't want. He is a holy man, but they're constantly coming to terms with their humanity. They're trying to be the holiest of men, basing themselves on the image and the ideal of God's behavior, Christ's behavior, but they're just men, and they keep running into that problem. Is Lawrence a holy man? Yes.

I think one of the things that I understood from doing a bit of research was that the Vatican is organizationally very complex. It has a huge sort of bureaucratic center. It's full of men who are priests organizing, just having to organize a structure that involves the kind of civil service. So they're not monks. They are involved with organization. There are flights to be booked and people to be invited and people to, accommodation to be set up. It's huge, it's a huge structure. So all of these men are involved in a bureaucratic structure. And in a way, the debate and the argument that you're having, which is all about the

Catholic Church and all about the papacy, actually is reflecting the very real political choices which are happening everywhere across the world. So do we become more liberal? Do we become more populous? Do we become more reactionary? That is presumably part of the genius of Robert Harrison, part of the genius of him. Yes, but that's true. But I'm also saying they have to run a business. It's planning, it's accounting, it's a whole stuff of structure. And so they are worldly because of that. They have to engage with the world. They can't just be meditating and praying like in a...

They have to organize something, like running a film studio. And yet at the same time, there they are, behaving in a way, or attempting to behave in a way a monk might behave. They have to, they're at once doing these very human things as Rafe is describing and then on top of that, they're supposed to be purer than most men. How's that possible? I think we learned quite early on that John Lithgow, he's up to no good. I think we established that. That's not a spoiler. I think we worked that out in the first 10 minutes. Can I mention just, I don't want to spoil anything, but Isabella Rossellini needs

to be mentioned because obviously this is an overwhelmingly a male story. Yeah, right, yeah. And I'm sure a lot of people will be thinking when they're looking at all you guys and you're all dressed up and you're all looking amazing, the absurdity of the all-male priesthood might be a view of some. But then Isabella Rossellini comes in and she doesn't have much to say, but when she speaks, I hear talk in various screenings that people applaud when she does her piece. Can you tell us anything about Isabella Rossellini? She speaks an unspoken truth and that comes from – it comes very – it's very unexpected,

it's very unusual, it's practically irreverent and it comes from a woman. So it's incredibly powerful. But also as well – I completely agree but I think she herself carries something extraordinary as a spirit, as an actor, as a woman. She has a quality which is hard to put into words, but you feel it like a sort of presence. She has a sense of grace Isabella. Naturally she has grace and you feel it in the room. Yeah. I've spoken to you before, Rafe, about learning languages, particularly it was Russian at

the time, which you learned for White Crow. And obviously this question doesn't really apply to Stanley being an Italian American in origin, but your Italian sounds amazing. I did a lot of homework. I'm not a fluent Italian speaker. I have a little bit of Italian, but I had to really do a lot of work, which I was happy to do. But I-

Did you pass, Stanley? It was very impressive, I have to say. It was very impressive. Can you say that in Italian? No. I speak Italian. I just wanted to, again, a story unveils as we go through the film,

but there is a crucial speech. I wonder if there's anything that you can say about it, Rafe. When you address everyone who's there for the conclave, you're addressing everybody and you get right to the heart, it seems to me, of what Robert Harris was trying to say, which is that certainty is a sin and that you want to have a pope that has doubt. And it's just struck me as an incredible... It comes quite early in the film, but it's a very powerful speech you have. Yes, it's the speech, Lawrence, I think it's the tradition that the Dean of the Vatican gives a homily, a sermon, if you like, once the Cardinals have arrived. I think there's a mass, and

then he gives this sermon. So Lawrence does this, and he starts to say something a bit banal, but nothing surprising, and then stops and says, and I start in Italian, then I go into English, and I start a speech which I think is spontaneous to Lawrence. I think it's important to Robert Harris, this speech, very important, is that, as you said, it's the importance of doubt. The doubt has to play a part, even if we are men of faith, that the human, we lean towards doubt and we have to accept this. And on doubt, we can burnish our faith, but to be certain is misguided. I think the line is, but certainty is the enemy. And I think that's Lawrence saying, we have to have questions. We can't always know that we're right. It might be that I'm not listening, but I don't hear those voices often from the Catholic

Church. And you're not spokesman for the Catholic Church. Yeah. Well, I have in my family, I have some theologians and priests, and I think there was always debate and questions. I think I've one... Yeah, I can think of conversations I've had where, you know, the questions are being asked, the interpretation of the teachings of the Bible of Christ are constantly... Questions are being asked, and I think there are obviously... And I certainly went to Catholic schools where there's that bit of Catholicism where you don't, this is what it is, this is the catechism, this is

how it is, don't question, this is the law, the word of God. And I think Lawrence is saying, no, we have to question, we have to have, certainly the questions within us are, as is our humanity speaking, and this is a place where our faith is strengthened because we acknowledge our doubt. But to just be blindly certain is misguided. You know, you see it in the political arena today. Once somebody – you're supposed to say, this is exactly how we're going to do things. This is good. This is bad. This is – and none of it's true.

Everything is in flux. Everything is ever-changing. And doubt is crucial to any person with half a mind. You have to doubt. If you don't doubt, you're sure to make mistakes over and over and over again. I had the, just a final point for me, I had the pleasure of interviewing Robert Harris

a couple of weeks ago about his new book, Precipice, about the start of the First World War. And he said of all the adaptations that have been made of his works and his books over the years, this is the one he's most proud of. Oh, good. So, gentlemen, thank you very much. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Simon. I enjoyed Precipice. It's great. Yeah. Yes. I can see that being a movie maybe a few years down the line. Oh, really?

Thank you so much. Nice to see you. Thank you, Simon. As a student of Rafe Fein's interviews, that is animated Rafe. And you could absolutely tell the way he was just riffing there at the end about theology and the world and elections that he loved this film. I think Stanley Tucci loved it as well. But yes, that whole conversation about doubt and certainty is for me the heart of everything in this and he delivers it so brilliantly.

And just in case anyone is not familiar, when you say as a student of Ray Fine's interviews, you've interviewed him about films that he's directed and that he's learned Russian for, and he's been very, very engaged. And then you've also interviewed him about films in which he plays a noseless wizard in which he literally had no idea what the elder one was. But you know, so this, this isn't his film in as much as he hasn't directed it. He hasn't written it. He is, but it is his, it is his film. And I don't know if it came over as much as it felt in the room, but Stanley was

definitely deferring to Rafe because it is Rafe's picture. Well, I would say it's both of their pictures. It is directed by Edward Berger or Edvard Berger. I interviewed him when he was doing All Quiet on the Western Front and I said, how do you pronounce your name? And he said, well, if you're in the UK, say Edward Berger, but Edvard Berger, who obviously did All Quiet on the Western Front, as you say. but Ed Van Berger, who obviously did all quite the rest in front, as you say. Script by Peter Strawn, whose credits include Tinker Tailor with Gary Oldman and Frank with Michael Fassbender, extraordinary body of work. Based on the book by Robert Harris, author of Fatherland, Enigma, the Cicero trilogy, and who you've recently interviewed. So briefly, following the death of

a beloved pope, Rafe finds his cardinal, Lawrence, has to lead the conclave to elect the new pope. The favorites are Bellini, played by Stanley Tucci, who you heard there, who is a progressive, who is reluctant about the position, but actually really does want it. But he is determined not to let Tedesco, played by Sergio Castellito, set the church back because he's kind of reactionary right winger. Also there's Ady Yemi, played by Lucien Musmati, who is the Nigerian cardinal with very homophobic views.

And then this trend lays. You said John Lithgow, who's on screen for about four seconds before you think, what was the phrase you used? He's up to no good. He's up to no good. He's up to no good. Definitely. He's such a great good. He's brilliant. Although at one point,

Tucci says, is this where we are looking for the least worst option? Or is it Tucci who says that? Anyway, somebody does. So just before the conclave starts, they discover that there is another cardinal, Benitez, who is a Mexican who has been working in Kabul and has worked in very dangerous areas, who was appointed in secret by the previous pope, which is why nobody knew about it for their own safety. That character is played very enigmatically by Carlos Diaz. And then again, as you mentioned in the interview, Isabella Rossellini, a sister Agnes, who's the Cardinal's lead caterer and housekeeper, who says very little, but when she speaks, you listen because she's not engaged in idle chit chat. I was thinking as I went into this, the last time I think I saw a film

about conclaves was a famous pop and we have a pope, the Nanny Moretti film, in which they basically elect a pope who doesn't want to be pope and then who runs away into Rome. That's what the drama is about. At the center of this, there is the character of Stanley Tucci, who is the favourite but does not want to be pope. At least he says he doesn't, but as Stanley Tucci said in the interview, he kind of discovers that he does. This is basically a religious drama as a detective story. I mean, it is everything that that absolutely imbecilic angels and demons which had the skydiving pontiffs wasn't. I mean, that was a film that wanted you to believe that the intrigue of the Vatican and all that, it's like a dead person. No, it's not. And that stupid, the action shot of the white smoke going

up the chimney. Here, the appointment or the move towards the appointment of the new pope becomes almost like a murder mystery. In fact, at one point, I felt very smugly. I know where this is going. In the way you were doing the master, I know who done it. Then I was completely wrong-footed when the film did something that I completely hadn't expected it to do, but which I think it does really well and which I think it earns the right to do and actually creates a very good philosophical and progressive conclusion. As both those actors said, meaty, chewy roles reminiscent of theatre, as you had pointed out, the theatre of the costume. I was thinking of Ingladiator with you know, with Denzel Washington. What was the

phrase you used? He loves the fabric. And here, there's the thing about putting on, there's the under stuff and then the various ties and knots and then the stuff going over the top of it. And that whole thing about the fabric, the uniform, you see somebody else because of the theatre of the costume, the theatre of the rituals, the sound of the location. I think the film's shot at Chinichita. The sound is absolutely brilliant. And a great script about the danger of certainty, you know, the phrase that my dad always used to use, which is the belief in a specific knowledge of God is a horrible thing. But all this happening within the seat of power of the Catholic Church, which is absolutely dedicated to doctrine, and catechism, and law, and rules. And so, all that stuff, the machinations of politics,

progress, deception, the bureaucracy of the Vatican, which is a state unto itself. So, essentially, almost like an effectively a country, and as Ralph Lyons said, a business as well as a belief. And in the end, I think underneath it said, a business as well as a belief. In the end, I think underneath it all, what it is, is a meditation on power, on that thing about power should never be given to anyone who wants power. When Stanley Tucci was saying at the end that if you have certainty, things will go wrong, and you see that all the time. Obviously, this is all playing out outside the walls of the conclave. We know that there's

civil unrest, there's explosions, and there's disturbances. It's about the need to be open to change. It's about the need to have doubt. So, Holy Men Who Are Just Men, an organization which is dedicated to rules, learning that you can't be dedicated to rules. Ralph Fiennes saying, it's not so much about what said the meaty chewy dialogue as what's not said, the looks in between. That great jittery score by Volker Bettelmann, okay, Hauser, who won the award for All Quiet. I mean, I really enjoyed it. I really, really enjoyed it. But more importantly, I was satisfied by it. I felt that the twisty turns of the plot, which at one point actually become, you know, there's, you know, the way the angels and demons thing, angels and demons had

skydiving pontiffs. This has an explosion, but a completely justified explosion because it's in a world in which there is turmoil outside and it's about negotiating that. And I thought that the way it concluded, I hadn't read the book, obviously you had before, I thought that it reached an ending that was not just dramatically satisfying, but philosophically satisfying. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Robert Harris is obsessed with elections. He just loves elections. He loves the process of elections. And if ever there was an election with which we should feel very little engagement, it would be the election of a pope. And yet, because it mirrors the divisions in society, it feels as though it's enormously relevant to almost every election

that you read about. Toby Olsen Yes. And also, the fact that the way in which the ballots take place, it just seems to be, okay, we've done a ballot, do another one. And so you just keep doing this weird balloting process. It's not like there is an official debate depicted in the film. It's conversations in hushed corridors that may be being overheard in stairwells. And intrigue and deceit, like I said, it does exactly the thing that angels and demons didn't do, which is that it genuinely turns a theological process into a dramatic political thriller without being silly.

Oscar chat about Rafe, I hear. Oh, I would think so. Yes. Yes. I think it's great. Okay. And how nice just to speak to two great actors like that together. I thought that was terrific.

Okay. Adds in a moment, Mark. Yes. But first, I mean, there's a spring in our step anyway, but let's blow some wind in our sails and mix our metaphors as we step into the lift of laughter. Here we go. Hey, Mark. Things not going very well at home here. You know why I write the odd thriller. I do. Another one out in January.

Anyway, well, apparently, according to you know who I've been a little too close to my work. You act like a detective too much. We have to split up. Good idea. I said, we can cover more ground that way. Hey, she walked out. I thought, how do I cheer her up and win her back?

I know she loves horses. So I bought a horse and I phoned her with the news. I bought you a horse. I bought you a horse. I said, how exciting? She said, are you going to race him? Don't be absurd. He's way faster than me. I'd lose every time. So you know, that was a slightly interesting conversation. Anyway, just to make things worse, I was locked out of the computer later that day and I got a call from the hacker. He told me that he had my passwords. Oh good, I said I'll get a pen and paper. Can you tell me what they are? Because I've got absolutely no idea. Anyway, that's enough fun for one day. The thing about that joke is the reason that joke isn't funny is because it's far too close to the truth

Exactly. It is it is true. I'm guessing Mark Kermode 96 Exclamation mark. How did you know? There you go Anyway, what are you gonna be doing next what are you going to be doing next? I'm going to be doing your monster after this. With creative thinking, Melissa and Doug makes toys that help kids take on the world. Because the way they play today shapes who they become tomorrow. Melissa and Doug, the play is pretend. The skills are real.

Look for Melissa and Doug wherever you shop for toys. Light up Black Friday with Freedom Mobile and get 50 gigs to use in Canada, the U.S., and Mexico for just $35 a month for 18 months. Plus get a one-time gift of five gigs of Rome Beyond Data. Conditioned supply details at freedommobile.ca. Now, speaking of things that are vaguely festive, and even if you're not coming on the 8th, which is now sold out, you can get slightly involved. Slightly involved. We don't want you to get enormously, but just slightly involved. If you're coming

along, you're definitely getting involved. Amongst the features, Humbug, the final of the worst Cup of Christmas will be at our live show. This is worst Christmas films of all time. We're going to run the 32 entrant competition from Saturday on our socials. We already have Last Christmas, The Polar Express, Ernest Saves Christmas, The Santa Clause 3, Santa with Muscles, The Holiday, Santa Clause the Movie, Kirk Cameron Saves Christmas, A Christmas Carol, The Musical, A Very Harold and Kumar 3D Christmas, and more than a few votes for Love, actually. Its inclusion will be determined by who our special guest

ends up being. So my guess is it's going to be in there to be perfectly honest. Anyway, email your worst Christmas movies please to the usual email address, which is correspondence at kovenanmaior.com or find us on Blue Sky Instagram and threads, which is where we're at. Was The Santa C Claus 3 the film that I described as the cinematic equivalent of Tertiary Syphilis? I remember the phrase. The phrase is more memorable than the film. I suspect. So that's the final of the worst movie at Christmas, also Quizmaster Kermode's Christmas Quiz, also known as Marks to Mind.

They've worked hard on this, haven't they? It does sound a little bit Day of the Jackal, that one. We'll be needing two contestants, general movie round and a specialist movie round. If you're coming to the show, email us your seat number and what your specialist subject would be, along with why you think you'd be a great contestant, just send it to the usual address, correspondenceatkermannamow.com and you may be hauled up on stage to be grilled by Mark. I appear to be not part of this feature, that's fine. Hulled up? That sounds like hauled up before the beep, doesn't it?

Yes, it does. Invited up, surely. But I might be involved in the Laughter Lift Christmas quacka special. Your turn to send in your dad jokes. We'll pick the rest and read them out. The one time in the year that the redactor doesn't write them or steals them from his mates in the pub. So we do need your laughter lift fabulous jokes. And also do you want to be in quiz master Kermode's Christmas quiz also worst film of all time correspondence at kermannamare.com however I have a feeling you have a little, every time you mention this next film you said which is really surprising so surprises

so your monster about which I knew absolutely nothing before I went to see it other than that my colleague, Matthew had said, Oh, I won't tell you anything. You said you needed to sit completely cold. So I'm now going to spoil that by telling you things about it. Yes. Romantic comedy horror with musical elements from writer, director Caroline Lindy expanding upon a short film made in 2019. Low-budget independent shot in 20 days. Wow. Melissa Barrera, who we've seen recently in the new screen movies and Abigail and actually also in The Heights, is Laura, who we meet in hospital.

She's been there for a year, during which time her boyfriend Jacob, played by Edmund Donovan, time her boyfriend Jacob played by Edmund Donovan, a musical theatre director, and he wrote the lead in his new play for her. And then he left her because he said, I can't do this anymore because I'm just looking after you, I can't do it. So now she's back home at her mum's house. She's destitute with grief. She's drowning her sorrows in cake. Everything has fallen apart. At one point, she doesn't know what to do and then she meets the monster played by Tommy Dewey who is the same monster who hid under her bed when she was a kid and in her wardrobe when she was a kid and she's completely forgotten him and suddenly he's back. Here's a clip. Hey stranger. I wasn't sure what kind of tea you drink.

Pope Green's alright. You done? Great. Honestly, it's too bad you conked out. I have this pretty neat monster routine I do now. I think you'd find it to be very, well, scary. What sort of monster is he? Well, he looks a bit like Jean-Marie's beast in Cocteau's La Belle Elabette, sort of slightly lion-like, I mean, large gentleman form, but kind of beastly. But he behaves like this sort of suburban guy who's grown

very used to being alone in the house and doesn't want somebody else back in the house with him, because he's been forgotten about, and now he wants his solitude back. So at first, as you heard, she's terrified. Gradually, however, they start to form an odd friendship because she discovers that he likes Fred Astaire musicals in the same way that she does. Meanwhile, in her life in the outside world, she goes for an audition for the lead role of that play that her ex-boyfriend wrote for her, which she doesn't get. It goes to a glamorous young star, but she is allowed to understudy and to be in the chorus. And the rest of the film is about her

and the monster from her childhood. You know, we've all got a monster in the cupboard or in the thing, whatever, the monster from her childhood telling her that this idiot ex-boyfriend doesn't deserve her, he is a limp dipped ship head or something on those lines. Yeah, okay. Thank you. That's nicely worked. Thank you. And Laura gradually finding her own

monstrous inner strength. Now here's the thing, tonally, do you remember that film A Monster Calls? Yes. Okay. Well, I really liked that and it had real sort of psychological truth. This is somewhere between A Monster Calls and The Substance because it has the sort of psychological depth of the former

and the WTF humor and where is this going of the latter. I absolutely loved it. I went in knowing nothing about it. I didn't believe the beginning when she's in the hospital, I didn't know where it was going. Even despite the title, I had no idea what it was going to be about. I loved the characters. I loved the use of songs. I love the confidence of the writing and direction. It takes an old story. It makes it new. It genuinely manages to get that balance between the dark and the light, the funny and the ghoulish, the frivolous and the profound. Also, at the very end, there's a weird thing that the special makeup designer is David Leroy Anderson. designer is David Leroy Anderson. Heather Langenkamp Anderson is credited as creature designer and I'm assuming that that is Heather Langenkamp as in from Nightmare on Elm Street.

I'm assuming that that's the case. I don't know what I'm assuming it is. I can't recommend this highly enough. In a way, I don't want to say anything else about it other than go along because it's really well done. It's got a very, very unpredictable spirit to it. It's funny, it's moving, it's touching. Like I said, it is somewhere between a monster calls and the substance. I did not have this on my bingo card as even showing up on the radar this week, and it completely bowled me over. And that is the end of take one. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh, Vicki, Zachie and Heather. Producer was Jen, the redactor was Simon. And if you're not following the pod already, why? Why? Please do so wherever you get your podcasts. Mark,

what is your film of the week? Well, look, here's the thing. I liked Moana too. I really loved Conclave, but I'm going to go for Your Monster because I think actually that's the gem in here that no one saw coming. So my movie of the week is Your Monster. My movie of the week will be Conclave. Which is a very, very good, I mean, this is a good week. Those are three very good films. There's more stuff coming up in take two, incidentally.

Yes, that's right. Also, the other thing just before we finish on Conclave, it's the kind of film that if you've got family coming up at Christmas, like your dad's coming up or your aunt or whatever, and you are looking to see a movie, you can, this is, you know, it's a good old fashioned story with a very contemporary spin. Although it does require a modicum of intelligence. Yes. Okay. Now everyone's got, oh, okay. Well, I can't take my family. Yeah, precisely. Correspondence at Kermit and Mayor.com. Take Two has landed alongside, and we're also doing stuff on popes in films in that section as well.

So Take Two is awaiting your pleasure for the subscribers. Thank you for listening. Talk to you very soon.