Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Does SPINAL TAP II turn it up to 11? + the rockin’ Warren Ellis

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

Vanguardistas have more fun—so if you don’t already subscribe to the podcast, join the Vanguard today via Apple Podcasts or extratakes.com for non-fruit-related devices. In return you’ll get a whole extra Take 2 alongside Take 1 every week, with bonus reviews, more viewing recommendations from the Good Doctors and whole bonus episodes just for you. And if you’re already a Vanguardista, we salute you.  ‘Spinal Tap II: The End Continues’ is finally out this week—but will it rock Mark’s world or break his heart? He’ll deliver his verdict in this week’s Take—plus more reviews of the biggest movies hitting cinema screens this weekend. First up it’s the final film instalment in everyone’s favourite goes-down-nicely-with-a-cuppa-tea-missus period drama saga, Downton Abbey. On a much less civilised note, we’ve got ‘The Long Walk’ too—a brutal death game drama adapted from Stephen King’s novel. Plus we’ll get your top takes on the Box Office Top 10 and whatever else is going on in your lovely listener lives.   Our very special and exceptionally well-dressed guest this week is Warren Ellis—musician of Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds and Dirty Three fame, and now the subject of new Justin Kurzel directed documentary ‘Ellis Park’. It follows the story of the animal sanctuary Ellis founded in Indonesia with Femke den Haas, and it’s an intimate insight into the life and music of this very cool man too. He chats IRL in the studio with Mark and Simon—and this week we’re filming the whole show in golorious technicolour, so you’ll get the full effect of his excellent outfit. They talk all about the movie and plenty about music too—and just because Warren loves a lengthy natter we’ve got even more for you in Take 2—so listen up!     Timecodes (for Vanguardistas listening ad-free):  Downton Abbey Review: 06:35  Box Office Top Ten: 14:41  Warren Ellis Interview: 25:19  The Long Walk Review: 46:37  Spinal Tap: The End Continues Review: 1:00:48        You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo  Please take our survey and help shape the future of our show: https://www.kermodeandmayo.com/survey   EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee!  A Sony Music Entertainment production.      Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts    To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail]  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And I'm in my traditional spare room. Mark is in a luxurious, swanky studio and looking particularly fabulous in that green jacket. Barracuta G9, it's not a green jacket, it's Harrington, you know that. But it is a, it is obviously a green jacket. It just has a sub-type. No, it's not a green jacket, it's a barracuda. I'm, I'm in, I'm in Sony. I'm in the Sony HQ.

Is that the same as Sony HQ? I don't know. Yeah, I think, no, different companies. Everyone there says Sony. But I know, I'm in Sony. Sonia, you are back, you are in showbies North London in your house, but I am actually in the mission control because, and thanks for mentioning it, Simon, today is publication day of my book.

I was about, 10 years. I was about to mention it, go on. But you jumped in so quickly that I wasn't able to. Because I was on an online book purchasing site. Were you? Trying to get a copy of your book because no one had sent one to me. Plus also the book by the Good Lady Professor, her indoors. I wanted a copy of both of them.

So I found your book at a reasonable price, which is on its way to me, but I have spent money buying it. I just like to say, I didn't get a free copy. Thank you for your service. I'm still not quite sure why I didn't get a free copy. But anyway, the price quoted for the good lady, Professor, her indoors, was £170. That's for the hardback. Struck me quite a lot for a hardback. I know.

You have to understand it's an academic publisher, so it's Rooker's Press. So those hardbacks go to libraries. Normal people don't buy the hardback editions. Normal people buy the paperback edition. I went back today and I can buy Stephen Spielberg's children for £24. There you go. So that seems okay. But contemporary American cinema, another book by The Good Lady Press,

Aero indoors, £274. Now, even with the academic markup, that just strikes me as, I don't know, quite a lot. Anyway, when my paid-for copies of your books arrive, I will let you know. Yeah, I've Mark Kermot Surround Sound available now in all good bookstores. I know, which I've paid for. Yes, I know you have, and you've made a big point of it, and I'm very grateful for your service. I might continue to remind you of that. Yeah, please do.

A little later on. When we stopped talking about your book and other books available at academic book prices, what are you going to be reviewing? This is a packed show. We have reviews of Spinal Tap 2, The End Continues, which is the long-awaited sequel to Spinal Tap. We have Downton Abbey, the grand finale, which is, well, does what it says on the tin. We have the Long Walk, which is the latest Stephen King adaptation. Every single thing that Stephen King has written seems to be coming to the screen. And we have our very special guest.

Who is going to be sitting in a studio very near you, in a seat very near you. and he is Warren Ellis, legendary musician. There is a documentary called Ellis Park, which is made by a recent guest, Justin Kuzel, famed Australian director. And Warren, I'm just guessing, he'll either be wearing a very loud kind of Hawaiian fruity shirt or he'll be wearing a brown suit.

What do you think? What would you guess? Most of the time he's wearing a brown suit with a very loud Hawaiian fruity shirt, open to the waist, and many edanglements around his neck, including, of course, Nina Simone's gum. So more about that when Warren turns up.

What else are you going to be reviewing in other parts? In Take 2, we have bonus reviews of Islands, about which you were speaking to, Sam Riley on last week's show, and The Man in My Basement, which is a really, really strange and hard to describe psychological, sociological thriller. Plus all the extra other goodness, the extra episodes, I mean, basically a whole life's word. of entertainment should you become a subscriber, which would be a very lovely thing.

I've got an email here from, now I'm going to say John Keo and Esperanza Uribe. Now, I think that's a, I think these are genuine, I don't think that's like an in-joke that I've missed, but I think it's John V. Keo and Esperanza Uribe, who say, my dear fellows, Simon is right to doubt the word parasitism, which you remember came on last week, but it is a valid word in the OED with uses in biology and medicine. He then provides a lot of unnecessary examples like nor was venality and parasitism less its characteristic. You see, that doesn't make sense, that's Ayl Windsor, 1899, accepting the conditions of parasitism imposed by this time upon the poet and preacher, Westminster Gazette,

I just don't think anyone is going to find much use for the word parasitism. Yes. Have you ever used the word? No, only when it came up on last week's show and you read it out and you doubted it's veracity. No, I had actually looked it up, so I knew that it actually did exist. Oh, okay, okay, fine, fine, fine, fine. No, but I can't imagine using it.

I think you could use it as the sequel to Parasites, Bong Joon-ho's parasitism. Yes, and do you know what it is in French? Go on. Paracitism. 1659 that the commanders of ships and pinnaces be from henceforth made choice of rather than a vain pretense of estate brackets bribery parasitism or lordly favour and so on and so on and so on so it's an utterly useless word but it does actually exist in the worlds of um does absolutely back up the theory that i was told when we were at the dora of film festival in france that french isn't a real language it's just english spoken with a funny accent And there's that, I always think of this with Eddie Izzard. He did a routine and then he said that was a scene from speed, which in France should have been called lavitez, but was in fact called speed.

Yes, I wouldn't repeat those ideas of the French language outside of the confines of your Sony studio. Biology and medicine are the funky places to be, if you want to use the word parasitism, any other uses. As ever, we would love to hear from you on this and any other subject. Correspondence at kerberdemeo.com. Anyway, tell us about something that might be out. Okay, so, Downton Abbey, the grand finale, which is the sequel to the one before,

which I think was the new era. Third film of the franchise, returning director Simon Curtis, written, of course, by Julian Fellows, usual cast, with Paul Gematti and Dominic West reprising roles from the TV series

in the previous film. I mean, look, if you're up to speed with Downton Abbey, you're up to speed. a clip from the trailer. It's hard to accept that it's time to go. Your friendship has never been more important to all of us.

But the future of Downton Abbey is now in Mary's hands. You will be a sensation. Lady Mary must go now I'm very sorry I shouldn't have come you get the general idea so the outraged voice that you heard

that was Jolie Richardson as a woman who almost faint at the prospect of royals being in the same room as a divorcee the film also gives us Alessandro Nivola as a clearly good-for-nothing yank, who's got romping scoundrel written all over him, and Simon Russell Beale as this harrumphing Sir Hector Morland, who out pantomimes Toby Jones' first screen appearance in... You remember that in Orlando?

It's just all face-pulling. And if you ask me what it's about, I'd say it's about two hours, although, honestly, to me, it felt longer. So the story is the family and the staff, it's the 1930s, Mary has become the centre of a scandal because she's been divorced and then the household have got a deal with disgrace. There is a funny line

which she says, I'll try and find a taxi that will take a divorced woman. They've got financial trouble. They've got to embrace change, move out of... So it's bringing all the things together for the finale. Okay, so here's the thing, right?

I've never been a big downtown abbey devotee, although I've seen the movies and the movies do exactly what it says in the tin. Obviously, Dame Maggie Smith is not here, but her, the portrait of Dame Maggie Smith, which is in the main hallway of the building, hangs over the entire proceedings with her kind of looking down, as if from above, you have Noel Coward in this. He gains entry into the world of Downton because they're trying to rehabilitate a newly divorced woman, and they think the way to do that is to have a party that Noel Cowell will come

to, and at one point, Noel Coward, obviously not actually Noel Coward, sings a song, and when he was singing the song, it reminded me of that scene from the meaning of life in which Eric Idles, not Noel Coward, does the song about the joys of having a penis, which, you remember that song, which ends up with the line, but don't take it out in public, or they'll put you in the dock, and you won't a come, a back, thank you very much. 12A for mild bad language and sex references, and it all leads up to a kind of every single person gets their moment and their, you know, their farewell.

Now, none of this is going to surprise anyone who's a Downton fan. Obviously, what you don't get from Julian Fellows is acerbic biting social saturn, despite the fact that actually, of course, all of this started with Gosford Park, which actually was quite spiky. There's Simon Russell Beale being horrified at the prospect of being contradicted by servants is about as as acerbic as it gets. there's an overworked joke about the teacher turned writer who wants to meet Noel Coward and then he does this thing about, you know, you have to understand the thing about

in Hollywood, the actors only say what they're told to say by the screenwriters. And he sort of looks directly into camera and says the screenwriters are the real heroes of Hollywood, which is very much a kind of, you know, a nudge wink kind of joke. There's also a sort of fairly heavily delivered line about the past being a more comforting place than the present. I mean, here's the thing. It's not very good, but it doesn't need to be. What it needs to be is a reunion of the characters for the people who are devotees of Downton. And I think, you know, an honest review of it would be, you've done it again, Julian. Well done. You know, one line of dialogue and it says Julian fellows. For me, the whole thing

is completely forgettable. And absolutely that thing about goes down well with a cup of tea misses on a Wednesday afternoon. But the thing that we should remember about it is it will do very well and it will do well in a lot of independent cinemas, you know, like the Newland Filmhouse or like the Act one in Acton, in which they're reliant to some extent on the older cinema go on the grey pan, on the cup of tea and a bicky audience and they will like it. So there's no point in criticising it. It's, it's, it's, I don't get it. I never have really. got it. I like Gosford Park, where that was a long time ago, and that was really in a whole different world. I think if you're going to go and see Downton Abbey, the grand finale, you know

what you're going to get. You're going to get, you know, dinner parties, and you're going to get visits to the theatre, and you're going to get people being outraged by divorce, and you're going to get, oh, the world's changing, and we have to do this thing. So, yes, Julian, you have done it again. Just don't do it again. Well, having done, was the final countdown? Is that what it's called down to the final? No, the grand finale. The grand finale. Final captain. Well, I don't know. I thought it was something like that. So they can't really come back. Unless they're all wiped out. Is there something, is there a, does a spaceship come down at the end and whisk them away to another planet? Well, that would be a plot spoiler, Simon, wouldn't it? Oh, I see. I love the fact that

you said they have financial troubles, which I do feel should be put in inverted commas. There is, there is a funny line when they go to visit a flat because they're looking at buying a And Hugh Bonington, here's somebody, Hugh Bonneville, well, did I see, Hugh Bonington, Hugh Bonneville, that shows how down to I am. Here's somebody walking in the floor above. And he says, what's that? And she said, I don't know, it's probably the family above. He says, the family above.

That's like the, a weekend. But I think just hearing you talk about that, and you're absolutely right about the people who will go and see this and will enjoy it very much for what it is. when we were in the in the Harry Potter phase and I mean the books here when they were coming out and a lot of people were saying

look at how big they are and they need a better editor and look how fast they are I think they got it wrong because there were so many people who basically just enjoyed spending time with these people that's it

and that's what it sounds like with Gosford with Downton Abbey with Downton Abbey starring Hugh Bonington that's because we were on top of this is that people just like spending time with them that's kind of it really

well correspondence at covenomero.com if you want to review gosford park or any other aristocratic residence starring Hugh Bonington whatever it is anyway correspondence atcomcomcom mark what are you doing next coming up reviews of spinal tap 2

the end continues the long walk and yes well we've got the UK and US box office top 10 obviously the laughter lift which I've had to do some surgery on plus our special guest who is Warren Ellis on the Hey take listeners this is an advert

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your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. Okay, box office top 10, starting at number 20 foe. Jamie is sent in this on Christy, which you talked about. Oh yes, which I loved. This film really surprised me, says Jamie, it's a super restrained, quietly powerful piece of filmmaking, gorgeous to look at, beautifully cast,

and the performances are all dialed in just right. It's got a bit of that Ken Loach vibe, but without the heavy-handed politics. More human, less agenda. If you're not used to the cork accent, you might find yourself wishing for subtitles. Personally, I was fine, but I can see it being a barrier for some. And here's the kicker, stay for the end. Yeah, the ending is absolutely wonderful. I went in thinking that it was going to have a Ken Loach vibe,

but actually it is very different because it's really joyous and uplift. I'm not saying that Ken Loach films can't be that, but sometimes they aren't. this will put a spring in your step and a song in your heart and absolutely stay for the end because it's so wonderful. And it's not stay for the end like after the credits

because in a Marvel thing when it finishes it finishes. Yeah, yeah, it's just that there is a musical thing at the end that they do with the credits which is just wonderful. Oh, so we're in the box office top 10 at number 10.

This is Jaws 50th anniversary reissue. It's number 11 in America, but it's 10 here. And dear brother Louis and brother beyond, which is a reference of course to German pop synth duo modern talking. I know you knew that. I was just filling that in for everyone else.

Well done. From the moment John Williams' spine-tingling music started to the end when Brody and Hooper are seen heading back to shore, filled me with warmth, nostalgia, and even though I've seen it many times on the small screen, a fear and dread only Spielberg can seem to deliver. Everything was so enhanced. It looked and sounded better than the so-called multi-million-pound blockbusters we endure these days. There are so many moments of perfection with or without the shark which will never be surpassed. And Ben Gardner's head appearing from this boat still made me jump out of my chair. Thankfully, I was the only person in the screening. The whole 124 minute running

time left the warmest of glows radiating my body, something we all miss in this current world of hate and fear, says Dean. Incidentally, can I just say on the subject of Jules very quickly, as we saw in that wonderful documentary about John Williams that came out last year the story is true that apparently after Spielberg had all the problems with the shark and it wasn't working and he said it's okay John Williams will give me the shark with his music and he sat down with John Williams and said okay what have you got and John Williams went dunum and Spielberg went yeah no but really what have you got it's almost like it's almost like you could write a book about this kind of thing I know I know

Number nine here, number 24 in the States. Honey, don't. Well, as I said, it's a film whose title does the review. Absolutely don't. I see that we have an email. I'm waiting to hear what it says. We have three actually. Thunderverner says Mark isn't always right. It's an enjoyable twist on the noir detective film. And Margaret Qualley does a great job channeling Humphrey Bogart. Chris Evans is slutty and Aubrey Plaza is Aubrey Plaza. I enjoyed it so much. I went back and saw it again. I figured I ended up seeing so, I figured I end up seeing so-so superhero movies at least twice. I will support smaller B movies when they actually are available to watch. So Honey Don't, Court Stealing and Relay were

this August's treat. And I would recommend any of them to people who just want to see a movie, not an event, not a tent pole, not an extended universe, just to play an old movie. Barb in Exeter says, I really struggled to get past the Superbad slander in Mark's review of this last week. He's just been contrary and he can't possibly think Superbad was anything other than great. And Cameron on our YouTube channel says, hang on, why is Superbad catching strays out there? Which is an interesting, maybe that's a phrase that the kids are using on YouTube, but I wasn't aware of that. No, I mean, Superbad isn't catching strays. you can go back and find the review that I did when Superbad came out. I really didn't like it. I know loads of other people do. And I know it's one of the things that people disagree with me. But I'm not just saying it for effect. I didn't like it at all. And I said so when it came out. On the subject of supporting the indie movies, caught stealing, which came out last week, which is the Aronovsky, which is number five in the chart. I still haven't caught up with this week because I've been a little bit busy, what with the book and everything. But I do think the idea of going to see Honey Don't three times is, well, look, I'm glad that you enjoyed it.

I'm glad that you got that out of it. I'm still depressed about the fact that there's a third one coming, although, you know, hey, maybe the third one, which is called Go Beavers, will be hilariously funny. It won't, but maybe it will. Are you saying that gratuitous self-promotion for financial gain is being put ahead of movies at the moment? Yes.

Okay, I just wanted to be clear about that. Number eight here, number seven in America, the fantastic four first steps. Which I enjoyed very much, as we've said every week, that it's been in the charts. I think it looks great. I mean, narratively, it's a little bit messy, but it, just the design is so great, and I want all of that furniture. UK number seven, uh, Loka chapter one, Chandra. So again, this came out the week that we were not doing the show, but also I don't think it was press screen, but I think we had an email

about it last week. It's, uh, it's an Indian, uh, superhero, uh, adventure horror film, and it is apparently the first installment in a five-part universe called Wayfair a cinematic universe. Court stealing is at number six here, five in America. Lois says, court stealing is pure chaos. Think after hours meets John Wick, but make it 90s New York City and weirdly hilarious. Butler's Hank is a washed-up baseball guy who gets wrecked by drug dealers. Hasidic hitmen, yes, really, and his own bad luck. Matt Smith is unhinged. Zoe Kravitz is cool as hell. Carol Kane with a shotgun, iconic.

Aronovsky hasn't been this fun in forever. Go see it. It's nuts. And this is my treat to myself on Sunday, because that's what I'm doing, because I do the last theatre thing on Saturday, and then I'm going to go and see courts stealing as a treat to myself. Number five here, number six in America, bad guys two. Yeah, you remember Bad Guys One? It's like that, but just more. Freakier Friday is at number four. So much funnier than I thought it was going to be, and I actually ended up crying, which really caught me by surprise.

Number three in the UK and Canada, weapons. And this is turning out to be one of the surprises of the year, because so, many people I know have gone to see weapons and have really, really enjoyed it, been baffled by it, being fascinated by it. I'm really pleased that it's done as well as it has. There are so many ideas in it. Not all of them work, but the more I think about it, the more I see things in it. I do think it's kind of, it is a metaphor for the whole of contemporary American society. And I thought it was, I thought it was really something. The Roses is at number two. Again, this is the last of the ones that was out the week

we were off and I'm sorry I haven't caught up, but other things have taken place. Tell me about the roses. Do we have any emails? No. No, well, there we go. But it is number eight in America. Number one here and number one in the States and Canada is the conjuring last rights. Okay, so hang on, hang on, hang on. Before you even begin the emails, let me just say, I know that there are going to be people complaining about me complaining about the fact that it departs from the truth, but that's because the film spends so much time telling us that this is all true and that the Warrens were Latter-day Saints. On you go. Sure.

Yep. Okay. Someone called Violent Outburst Studios. Really? I mean, in general, if you, if that's on your email, could you just give yourself a name? Even if you make up a name, that's fine. But what am I supposed to call you Violent Outburst Studios?

Jeff. I suppose I could call you VIO. So, okay, I'm going to call you that. Watch a Vio. Okay, Violent Outburst Studios say, this year has been good for horror. Weapons, bring her back 28 years later, and so on. This film being released alongside them only goes to highlight everything that is wrong with mainstream horror films.

The lovely Seamus says the seriousness of these films ruins the fun. Yes, exactly, exactly, whilst fueling these charlatans' fables from Beyond the Grave, regrettably exposing them to a far wider audience, many of whom I'm sure fully believe that these are true stories. Yes. Lee Doherty, possibly Doherty, depending on Lee's preference. The franchise lost steam when James Wan stepped down as director, so I'm not surprised that this latest and final chapter is as meh as the last one. The spinoffs weren't necessary either, so on the related subject of New Line Cinema Horror, I hope that the planned prequel to weapons falls through very quickly. Leave original work alone.

Okay, well, look, I'm delighted by those emails because none of them said the thing that I expected them to, because what I did was I made the mistake of going below the line on the YouTube channel. Oh, not again. I know, I know, I know. I need to break the habit. I really need to break that. How many times? Never go below the line. And there was people getting off their bike about,

you know, well, he's just complaining that it's not true, but the thing is, lots of horror movies aren't true. Yes, but lots of horror movies don't spend an hour and 15 minutes going, and this is so true, and they were so important, and they really did do everything they could

to help other people. No, no, no, no, no. As I said, the Warrens were at best cooks and at worst con men. And that's fine, and I'm happy to watch a movie in which a, you know, an oog-bougar doll stalks the, you know, there's the corridors of a hour and a house and a house explodes and all the rest of it.

But just don't spend every other minute going, this is really important. As I said, my favourite line in the whole film was the thing which said, and remember, the Warrens were doing this stuff at a time that science didn't take them seriously. It's like, yeah, because they're not to be taken seriously. Think how much easier your life would be

and how much more time you would have to promote your book. If you didn't go below the line on anything, anything, anything, newspapers, this show, YouTube, whatever. Never go below the line. But I know you will, and probably this afternoon. Correspondence at cabaretemaire.com, we have a top guest for you to meet in just a moment. This episode is brought to you by Defender. With its 626 horsepower twin-turbo V8 engine, the Defender Octa is taking on the Dakar Rally. The ultimate off-road challenge.

Learn more at landrover.ca. Oh, hi, buddy. Who's the best? You are. I wish I could spend all day with you instead. Uh, Dave, you're off-mute. Hey, happens to the best of us. Enjoy some goldfish cheddar crackers.

Goldfish have short memories. Be like goldfish. This week's guest is Warren Ellis, musician, a member of Dirty Three in Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. Friend of the show, Justin Kuzel, has produced a documentary about Warren's work, part of which is about providing sanctuary to Anne animals in Indonesia. You're going to hear all the details of our conversation with him after

this clip from the movie. It really dawned on me that in the Sumatra Wildlife Centre, there's this incredible sort of positive thing going on because it's really just an intermediary stage for these animals. The goal of the place is to liberate them, is to give them their freedom back. And then I looked at the cages differently here because the animals are moving through them. They're just passing through to get back to being released, back to where they should be. And I realized that that's the kind of nerve center of the whole play. That's the heart of the operation.

The park is not a zoo. It's a last resort. It's actually trying to make good a fuck situation. They wish they could release Rina. They wish they could release the bears, but they can't. That's a little clip from Ellis Park, a little bit of violin from Warren Ellis, who joins us and clears his throat. Warren, hello, thank you very much indeed for joining us. It's a pleasure to be here.

And as everyone, people are watching on YouTube will know that you're dressed spectacularly. For those who are just listening to the pod, explain what you're wearing, sir. Well, I believe, and I'm no authority on this, but I believe it's a 1980s one-day series cricket match track suit that Adidas really. booted recently in Australia and it didn't sell very well and I walked in and I was like that has my name on it clearly and I bought three of them so people get used to it because it's going to be around for a couple of seasons and those boots those boots look amazing um thank yeah that these are a um a little I think they're called uh street life or something they're by Jeffrey West.

I can still get into a winkle picker. Bunyan's Bunyan's as well. This documentary takes us to a number of different places. But first of all, tell us what Ellis Park is and how this film

came to be made. Okay, so Alice Park is a sanctuary. It's a place for animals to die with dignity. in Sumatra and during the lockdown I was introduced to Femke Denahas who is the kind of in the documentary she's like the superhero she's like the best of all of us as far as I'm

concerned she she decided about 15 years ago that she would dedicate her life to liberating animals who were kept in cages like I mean primates and I mean bears and I I mean crocodiles, and they've been sort of bought through the animal trade, and she decided to make it her mission in life to liberate them. She's like Jane Goodall with a Mohawk or something, you know. And I was introduced to her, and at the time, they were kind of like an English indie rock band who were just like traveling around in absolute squalid. to get to the sort of next gig, you know,

but with the hard as big as Farlap, who is an Australian racehorse, who we all dearly love, the Farlap, just for the people who don't know who Farlap is. And when I met her, they needed a place to house all these animals

they kept gathering who were beyond release, you know, to be released back into nature. And we concocted this idea to build Alice Park. And I, well, I know very little about this world. And I purchased the land and donated it to them and then realized we had to build it. And I had no clue about that at all. So that's when I decided to go public because I couldn't sort of finance a

construction of it. And this amazing thing happened where this sort of beautiful community of people around the music that I've done over the years and, you know, the film people I've worked with, be it producers or actors and musicians that I knew, and the fans, they all just mucked in and within two months, we were able to build the first stage of it, which was the enclosures and build a school and and build a veterinary hospital. And then when I saw how it was evolving, I sort of bought some more allotments. So we have a garden now that feeds the animals and we have a big place at the back as a part of the hill behind it. So the place is protected by a river that runs around it and safe from interference.

So that's the park in a kind of nutshell. And it was something I was working on during the lockdown. And as well as that, I'd been making records and film scores when I could and writing a book. And I was at Kahn presenting a film that I'd. done the music for the snow leopard it was i think it's called the velvet queen a beautiful documentary by van son munier and um i bumped into justin kurtzell and i didn't really know justin beyond meeting him at a few after shows after a concert but i knew his brother who composes the music for his films and i was a fan of his work and he was presenting nitram and we just had a coffee and

a chat and all that and I told him about the sanctuary and he asked me what it was like and I said I don't know I've never been there and but I had and I said look I have this idea I want to go there and I've sourced a place in Italy who will make a three meter tall copy of Dina Simone's gum that I wrote the book about and I was trying to get it put into the Statue of Liberty and I was trying to get it like in the Louvre and they all told me to so I thought right I'm going to build my own. I'm going to put it in Ellis Park and you can all go to be in itself. And he said, and he's just looking at me and I said, you know,

and I'm going to get a boat and we're going to take it over and I'm going to, I know there's a river, we're going to drag it up the hill and stick it up there. And he just said, I want to make that film. And Nick Batsius was there who's a producer and a produced Nitrum. And he just said, I want to produce that film. And I just thought it was a bunch of Australians sitting around. you know being kind of you know funny and stuff like that and he texted me afterwards and said I'm serious mate and I didn't think any more of it and then a month later I got a treatment for it

which I didn't read I just thought wow and then within six months they were over there filming so that that was the sort of genesis it was kind of um as is often the case it it came to life because there was something about that initial idea that captured the kind of imagination of the two of them. And as I've noticed in my work in music for the last 30 years, it doesn't really matter whether the idea kind of lives or dies, but you owe it to it to kind of give it every chance that you can to keep it afloat.

And this idea of taking this piece of gum there, which didn't really even eventuate in the film. We changed tack. But it captured everyone's imagination enough to kind of get things up and running. And this is often the case that, you know, you're just chasing some crazy dream. You don't even, you kind of, and what can come out of that, it can be extraordinary. So just to explain, because one of the things you refer to in that, you say, Nina, Simone's gum, okay? And some people may not have read Nina Simone's gum. I am sitting here wearing round my neck. Oh, I'm so happy about that, Mark. So am I. Yeah, I know. So there's only three

things I have around my neck, which is a St Christopher that was given to me by my family, a clam that was given to me by my daughter, and Nina Simone's gum. Yeah. Oh, how beautiful. Which you gave to me. And the story of Nina Simone's gum is that you had rescued this piece of chewing gum from underneath the piano when she played at Nick Caves at the South Bank. Yeah, at the Meltdown Festival. And when you wrote the book about it, and then you then had these reproductions made, one of which I have and I treasure, you were writing about how artifacts can have an almost kind of magical thing to it

because of what we invest in them. Yes, it's a piece of gum, but it's so much more than that. And that's kind of, this whole thing about this idea, eventuating, as you said, it all comes from this crazy little seed of I've got a piece of Nina Simone's gum and 30 years later or whatever it is it will turn into this other thing. Yeah well it's it's quite amazing because I can trace it back that moment of just instinctively jumping up on stage after the show had finished and grabbing it I just wanted to have something um that was a part of this show that changed my life

the concert was extraordinary and I wanted to have something and it had been in her mouth and I didn't really think about it and I kept it as a like a shrine in my studio and it was wrapped up in the towel that she wiped a brow down with and 20 years later Nick asked me if I still had it because he wanted to put it in his exhibition in Denmark in Copenhagen and I still had it. And then this amazing thing happened that people rallied around this little piece of gum and they'd send me photos of it being transported to the Black Diamond Library in Copenhagen. And, you know, the gum is just a metaphor. Like it's this really for, I think, the creative process and that creative imagination and communal, communal imagination, which is a beautiful thing

and gets things done. And I've noticed this in my life. I've never really understood the process, but seeing this sort of idea take flight was the first kind of concrete thing that I could sort of look at the images that were being sent to me, like the gum sitting, you know,

like in the seat next to Molly and Rachel, you know, taking it up with my old violin, you know, that had been rediscovered. And Anne de Mulla missed, a fashion designer from Belgium, when I sent it to her, she just wrote back, but this is like a hair of Christ. And, you know, people imbued it with this kind of spiritual and, you know, religious-like fervor. And I found that incredibly beautiful, but I also found it to be something I could recognize

from my whole working life as a, musician and creating music and I never could explain it and it's always retrospectively that we can we can kind of understand things I look back at the things that I've done and it's a very different sort of idea I have about them than at the time because I'm just running I'm just running at the time like when I'm working on the score I'm just trying to work out how to do it I'm just like praying that something will happen, but then it takes a, you know, like it's why history is really fascinating because with distance, you get a kind of clearer overview about maybe what

was happening. So yeah, the writing the book was really interesting for me because it just appeared in front of me as these photos and interactions were taking place. And it's really, I think, a book about ideas and I'm in there a bit just to kind of give it some context of who I am and things like that but it's really about um I think about ideas and about faith you know having having um and at the time writing it I didn't really know what it was about and a few years later I could have a better idea I think about it I have a better understanding of what it just to explain to people who haven't seen the film because the film basically starts with the Nina Simone's gum section of your life

and we see you in the recording studio we see you talking about the gum and then you do actually take a version of the gum to Ellis Park there's actually a moment almost half the way through the documentary in which you say oh yes and we're going to the park the documentary is called Ellis Park and you're halfway through

before you go oh yes we're also going to do that and I think one of the things that Justin Kozell has done rather brilliantly is to melt together this whole thing of the journey of your life up to that point and then this manifest of it, which is Ellis Park. So on the one hand, yes, it is a documentary about Ellis Park, but it is equally a documentary about you and your creative process. And, I mean, I thought,

I thought that worked really well. Sorry, Simon, I recognize that I'm kind of dominating this. I just, I think I'm dominating this sex. Mark, if it's Warren, I just, I just had one question based on having watched the movie yesterday. There's lots of your music, obviously, throughout the film, throughout Ellis Park. And looking at you playing your violin and all those different places where Justin made you or suggested that you play your violin,

it seems to me that you're in a trance. And there's one particular moment when you're in the studio in Paris and you're at the piano and you're playing this kind of repeated theme and your eyes are closed. And to all intents and purposes, you're gone somewhere.

Would that be correct? Or is that a non-musician talking? No, I think that's correct. I mean, music for me was always a place of escape, like the cinema was, and like listening to music was. It was a way of escaping the real world, which I never really found easy to navigate. It always seemed complex and somehow aggressive, and a lot of that was the way I was seeing things and the place I was projecting from. But I couldn't change that. And music, I realized, had been this, it was like, you know, going to the gym and, you know, staying in shape.

Music provided this place that I could mentally go to where the noise stopped and I could just lose myself. You know, it's the greatest honor for me that I get up to perform with Nick and the bad seeds and the dirty three. and in front of people, you know, in front of an audience, that I get to be a part of this thing that is so otherworldly. And I just consider it the greatest honor to 30 years later still be getting out there and doing this. It's like the greatest job on the planet. And music was always like that for me and continues to be.

Um, yeah, there's a, there's a thing when I go in there that if I can't shut life out of the studio, then I'm in trouble. And that's happened to me several times. And the, the result of that is that I fall down a rabbit hole. And, and, uh, this one was the biggest I'd fallen down. And, you know, when this happens, I'm unable to play and, and, uh, I have to kind of, you know, I think, I think a lot of people that I've seen. spoken to when I do Q&A's afterwards and relate to this in their own way. It's like we get to a point where we need a reset or something. You know, we need to kind of get taken out of the race for a while. And yeah, music was always that thing for me that kind of kept the world at bay. Well, my take on it.

You know, like I don't understand what goes on. been doing it for 30 years, I just know that it's the search, the next project that defines me, and that's the thing that I want to be the best thing that I've ever done. I'm not interested in repeating things that have worked. You know, I have a limited set of tools and I try to find a different way into the process if I can. That's the objective for me. and to feel uncomfortable. Making the film was the most uncomfortable I've ever felt in my life. Signing off on it was, like, so hard

and caused a lot of heartbreak amongst some members of my family. But I decided to go with how I've approached work, which is, you know, if I'm feeling nervous, I'm in a good spot. If I'm feeling comfortable, I'm probably, I'm not in a good spot because anybody that's going to listen to it is just going to feel pretty bland about it. So I've always, like, you know, I've always sort of like the challenge of feeling uncomfortable, but this, this was beyond uncomfortable. This was, you know, when you see yourself up there, you see what you're doing, you, I mean, you know, I couldn't really tell and I sent the car.

to a bunch of people who I knew cared about me and I knew that they would tell me what they thought about it honestly and that was Nick Andrew, my girlfriend Kristen and the two guys in the Dirty Three and got there a kind of overview on it which was incredibly helpful for me to decide how to move forward with it. I found it the most captivating a profound film I've seen for a long time so Warren thank you very much thank oh thank I'm really happy to hear that it you know for me it was incredibly kind of moving to see I guess how they saw what was going on if that makes sense you know like I when you're involved in something you can't really get a global look on it and I was eventually very moved seeing how

they'd sort of tied things together and what they thought the ramifications of things were. Well, I'm going to review the film when it comes out in two weeks' time. I'll give you a preview. Simon is not alone in his opinion. So Warren, thank you. Oh, thank you very much. The film's been

amazing because it's been a way for people to see what's going on there, to see that it's real and that you can actually really do something to improve things in a little corner of the earth. And that's a kind of great tonic in these times, I find.

Fantastic. Thank you, Warren. That's brilliant. Brilliant. Thank you, Warren. Thank you. And you can hear the rest of our conversation with Warren in take two. Okay, so please get in touch with, on the subject of Warren Ellis or anything else, really,

because we love to hear your views, correspondence at kerberdemeo.com. I have seen lots of posters for the long walk. And every time I walk past it, I think that we, as we've said many times on this show, there probably is no writer other than Stephen King, which is dominated. I know. Correspondence and public conversation about all kinds of attitudes and ideas, books and movies. There's no one like Stephen King who's dominated. And here he goes all over again. Yeah, so a couple of weeks ago we had Life of Chuck, for which you did that absolutely wonderful interview.

And I loved that. And that was an uplifting Stephen King. from the Stephen King of Stand By Me. Yes. Now we have this, which is adapted by writer J.T. Molnar, from a pseudonymous novel from 1979. This was a Richard Bachman novel. And this is very much from the missed school of Stephen King.

Oh, right. Yes. Great. So the novel was apparently written when King was a freshman. So he actually wrote it, or at least he started writing it, years before Carrie came out, which was the thing that, you know, his first one put him on the map. And I looked up the cover of the novel, which had this kind of rollerball style tagline, which said, In a Future America, the marathon is the ultimate sports competition, a novel of chilling, macabre possibility.

And the poster for the film is actually very similar to the thing on the web, which appears to be the cover of the original book, which is the shot through the legs of these people walking and obviously sort of authority figure. So, this is a dystopian world in which there is a brutal game in which there can be only one survivor. So no surprise, perhaps, that Francis Lawrence of Hunger Games fame, although it had actually previously been earmarked for people like George Romero, and I think actually at one point Frank Darabont has brought this to the screen. So the setup is that every year a group of inverted commas volunteers are chosen for the long walk. They come from various areas and walks of life. They're young men.

They're all volunteers theoretically, but as we learn, you know, no one says no. And the challenge is what they have to do is they have to keep walking for as long as possible. And if they stop or if they stumble, they get a warning. And if they get a couple of warnings, they get shot. It's very grim. Here is a clip. Warning, number seven. All right, Carlis, just keep it slow, just fast enough and steady, okay?

All right? Come on, put your weight on. But you're waiting. You're going to keep walking. You're going to keep walking. You're with us. You're with us. Come on, keep walking.

That's right. That's right. We're out here in the sunshine. Just having fun. Don't be all right, okay. She's all right. She's all right? Yeah, I promise me that you're going to keep walking.

You promise. You promise. All right? Okay. Okay. You're all right. Come on. Come on.

Stick with me. So they can't stop. If they do, they get shot on the head by the troops. The prize for the person who walks the longest is a huge amount of money and one wish. And the story initially focuses on Cooper Hoffman's character, who of course he was great in licorice pizza, who is Ray Garrity, who we see arriving with his mom, Judy Greer, who is weeping that he's going to go off on this thing because everyone knows that everyone except for one person who leaves, he's going to die. He soon pals up with Peter, played by David

Johnson, who's a British actor who was a after rising star. Other key character. include Stebbins, Ben Wang's Hank, and then Charlie Plummers very much disliked Gary Barkovich. And you see these people forming relationships and, you know, tensions as they walk. And the more they walk, the tighter they get. And every now and then somebody stumbles and falls and gets killed. So the drama, as you can expect from that, is pretty gruelling. Like the Hunger Games, or more recently like Squid Games, we learn about characters during the games, only to see them violently dispatched.

And each one has their own story, where they're from, how they got here, what they would do if they win, which of course only one of them can. And centrally, any friendships that are formed during the walk are going to end in horror because only one person is going to survive. There's also this unrecognisably horrible character, the major, who is Mark Hamill. And I have to say, I was watching the film for a little while before I realized it was Mark Hamill, who keeps them moving with sort of vile sloganeering. and he becomes the symbol of everything that's wrong with the society. So the central dynamic, as with the Hunger Games movies and all the rest of those kind of Y.A. franchise movies are that any of these friendships are doomed. And so you start thinking early on, okay, who is going to survive and what sacrifices are going to be made, because in the end these things always end up being about sacrifice. So the film is well made.

It is grueling. It's a 15 certificate for strong violence, injury, detail and language, although I think it's a top end 15, because I thought it was pretty brilliant. At times, it's a slog. I mean, watching people walk, talk, and get shot can be pretty depressing viewing. What makes it work, I think, is that, like all the best dystopian sci-fi, it does seem to resonate with the actual modern world. I mean, there's a scene in it, in which a group of people start singing, God bless America. And it put me in mind of the end of the deer hunter when they sing that song. And there's been such a lot of debate about whether they're singing the song at the end of the deer hunter, ironically, which of course, Chaminos said, of course, they're not doing it ironically. He actually means all that nonsense. But there is something about hearing that ironically ringing out over this, you know, this road full of dead young bodies. The walkers are a diverse group. They're racially diverse. They seem to be a cross-section of modern US society. And watching it, I have to say, does feel horribly relevant. I mean, it's a depiction of a country which has fallen to a foul authoritarian rule in which people are constantly distracted by the

problems of economic collapse and social injustice by these brutal gladiatorial games in which they are told, hey, look, one of you can win, one of you can win untold riches, but everyone else will have to die in the process. And I find it horrible to say, and saying this in relation to weapons, in Trump's America, this drama does ring true. I mean, I think it might be too depressing for many audiences, because it is, you know, as I said, the story is, keep walking until you stop and then get shot and that is a that is tough meat but it works because there is a thing in there which is an allegory of society now obviously the story as I said was based way way back in a previous ear in a previous century and it shows something about if dystopian fiction is

done properly it it kind of it keeps its relevance I just think there is something really odd about watching this story now in which I think America is in such a dispoiled state that you can't help but watch it and think, yeah, okay. For the latest state of the union, I don't know if you ever listen to Ezra Klein at the New York

Times, but he's done like a 20-minute monologue which is kind of backs you up on most of what you were saying. Okay, so I don't think I want to see it, really. It's a tough watch.

You know how you felt about I don't know how I felt about the end of the mist but the road you remember how you felt about the road? Yes I do there's a similar kind of lack of upbeat joy The long walk along the road The long walk along the road to the mist Through the mist

Oh my goodness me Interesting email from from Jai who says I don't know if you've all seen similar posts on social media But it sounds fantastic although not code compliant And it's, I don't know which social media it is, but it's Stephen King. I think it's Stephen King might be a different account. It's the list of his top ten films?

No, no, it says, Lionsgate is holding a screening of the long walk where you need to walk on a treadmill faster than three miles an hour for the whole movie. If you stop, you'll be escorted out of the theatre and you can't watch the rest of the film. No. Yep, there's a little promo thing that I'm showing. Wow. I mean, it's not about, I mean, there's a one-off. I'll say that seems in rather poor taste, but, you know.

Three, yeah. Because the killings are, they are brutal. I mean, look, maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm just old and sensitive. Like I said, it's only a 15 certificate. But I thought it was pretty intense. Yeah, we've checked with Lionsgate. It is true.

So, I mean, I think, could I walk for three miles an hour for the duration of a film? I probably could. Three. But. You could. Five, six. You do the treadmill. I have conversations with you when you're on the treadmill.

Anyway, you know what we need, Mark, after so much misery? Happiness, happiness, the greatest gift that we possess. Yeah. So let's just press the button and see what happens. Oh dear. Readjust face. Mark, hey, hi. Yes.

I was thinking about dear old Grandpa Mayo this morning. For the purposes of this joke, he was a successful livestock farmer. Okay. I remember asking him how he became such a successful farmer. Ah, he said, it all began when I started keeping a tally of each of my cows and writing them down in alphabetical order. That was the catalyst. Okay.

This one from Dad Says Jokes. I notice, I don't know if you've had a similar experience. I mean, I've changed it a little bit. But the good lady ceramicist, her outdoors at the moment, yelled when she was upstairs. And she shouted, do you ever get a shooting pain across your body like someone's got a voodoo doll of you and they're stabbing it? And I said, no. She said, how about now?

Pretty good. And just after she'd finished that particular violent episode. Yes. Now, can I ask you, do you know what a merbius strip is? It's a surface that can be formed by attaching the ends of a strip of paper together with a half twist. Oh, you don't know. Yes, I do know what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know what is. Anyway, so anyway, a Mervius strip walked into a bar, crying its eyes out. What's wrong, my friend, says the bar, man, where do I even begin? Said the Mubius strip.

Yay! But if you have to explain what a Mervius strip is, it's kind of... Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's you call the thing that if it heats up, it bends away, and therefore it breaks an electronic connection? Is that a thermostat? No, not a thermostat. It's the thing, it's like it's two strips of metal, one of which expands more. than the other one and if it heats it moves it bends and then it cuts it never mind somebody somebody will

I'm looking to the control room and they're not even listening they're literally not listening no they don't care they don't know they don't know and they don't care and you know why jeremy because you're an actor because you're an actor you're not really an engineer you're an actor and jeremy who's part of the team here very successful uh actor very successful actor who's been getting his kit off um quite a lot recently so i hear i don't know if we want to review that film when it comes out. Anyway, the music's finished. What are you going to do for the next bit? A spinal tap two, the end continues. This is it. The day you finally ask for that big promotion. You're in front of your mirror with your

Starbucks coffee. Be confident, assertive. Remember eye contact. but also remember to blink. Smile, but not too much, that's weird. What if you aren't any good at your job? What if they demo you instead? Okay, don't be silly. You're smart, you're driven, you're going to be late if you keep talking to the mirror.

This promotion is yours. Go get them. Starbucks, it's never just coffee. Summer's here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well-groom lawn delivered, but you can get a chicken parmesan delivered.

A cabana? That's a no. But a banana, that's a yes. A nice tan, sorry, nope. But a box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No.

A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by Regency app for details. Can I just say, Mark, before we continue that some people will know this.

already because they're watching it on YouTube. But everything we do is on YouTube now. And it started this week. And so people can see your green jacket, which isn't a green jacket. It's a barracuda G9. And they can see my very nice blue Oliver Spencer shirt. However, this is not just a one-off because this is a whole new way to enjoy all the gorgeousness that you can get from us. So the whole show is going to be on YouTube, not just the reviews. Yeah. How about that? Well, if you want to spend an hour watching two old blokes talking down the line to each other there be my guest. And if you want to send us new items of clothing, then we'll probably wear them for a small fee. Barakuta, are you listening? Petrol blue, size 50, thank you.

Jonathan Smith, geography O-level, grade B, dear Kylie's sister and an aid to navigation at sea. I can't have been the only Wittitainee who suffered a sudden outbreak of Wittertainee correspondence-related lacrimosity syndrome on hearing Willow's letter. This was last week when she was explaining the issues that she's had and she was talking about her boyfriend Paul and how she hoped to make their wedding in the near future. Anyway, on hearing Willow's letter, especially her response to Paul in last week's show, in keeping with the show's ethos of it'll be all right in the end, I would just like to say one thing to Willow. Indeed, if you could get the esteemed Mr. Hanks to say the following, I would be most grateful if he is not too busy

twisting the Tango Mussolini's small tail. What I would like Tom Hanks to say is, when you make it to your wedding, not if. Yes. Okay. So next time we have Mr. Hanks on the show, I will ask him to say that. Willow says Jonathan, seem to be in some doubt whether she would make it to their wedding. I think I speak for all wittititainees when I say that I believe her turning up a few minutes late, looking radiant and saying, I do, is as likely as Michael Flatley winning the best actor award at the Monaco Streaming Film Festival. And if you've just arrived, that means that's something that will definitely happen. Surely, like, just in case, people are going, what? Because it actually sounds like that's something that's very unlikely,

but the fact is there was never any competition. Yes. So, yes, what Jonathan's saying is, there's no doubt. There's no doubt. There's no doubt. It did sound like he was saying the opposite, but no, he was saying that exactly. Well, do you know what a Murbia strip is? Well, I'll just explain this. Surely like Tinkerbell in a Panto, with a combined power of the Wittentatainant fandom, only good can happen. Up with what's in front of you

and down with what's behind you, says Johnson. Thank you very much indeed. We'll pass that on to Willow and Paul, and I hope they're suitably encouraged, and if Mr. Hanks comes on the show again, we'll do that. Anyway, spinal tap, the end continues. It's a funny poster. It's a funny

title. Does the film live up to it? here we go. Well, so this is the long-awaited sequel to the 1984 mockumentary documenting a British rock band falling apart in America. The first film was directed by Rob Reiner, who made it so convincingly that it is true that some people, but when Spinal Tap came out, before people really knew what Spinal Tap was, some people did think it was real. I know people poo-poo this story in the same way as they poo-poo the idea that people took Blair Witch seriously, but they did. There were some people who thought it was a real thing. So the band, which is Mike McKean, Christopher Guest, Harry Shearer, first appeared on a 1979 sketch comedy pilot, the TV show. Also, if you're a Spinal Tap fan, you've got the DVD, you'll know that there is an hour of outtake material. There's a whole other hour of Spinal Tap stuff with stuff about the support band, which is on that original film. And then after the movie became a cult hit and people started to embrace it, Spinal Tap went on performing together. They played at festivals like Glastonbury and Wembley. And in fact, footage from those festivals is in this sequel.

They made a follow-up album, Break Like the Wind, which is actually very funny, and then later back from the dead in 2009. And the central team involved in it went on to make things like waiting for Guffman, Best in Show, and a Mighty Wind, which is the sort of folk arts at a spinal tap, which is absolutely wonderful. And then more recently, if you Google, there's a very, very funny skit, which is Spinal Tap on Jazz and why Jazz is Bad. I think that's from about 10 something years ago.

And that's, it's really, really funny. So apparently the core team were embroiled in a rights dispute with the film about who owned the rights, who owned the profits. It got resolved in 2020 after years of litigation and all rights now, including characters, trademark licensing, are now owned by a wholly owned Spinal Tap LLC, which is basically the people who made the original thing. So now, all these years, all these decades after the original, have the sequel, which reunites the core team. So once again, Rob Reiner in the driving seat, he is Marty DeBergy, who of course, Marty DeBergy is based on Martin Scorsese in The Last Waltz. He's following up on the band who split up after an undisclosed row. We don't know what the row was about, but who it turns out are contractually obliged to do a reunion gig. So we catch up

with the members. Nigel Tufnell is running a cheese and guitar store. There we go. David St. Hubbins has become an award-winning composer of on-hold telephone music. Very good. And Derek Smalls is running the Museum of Glue. So they are reunited in New Orleans by former manager Ian Faith's daughter, Alan Sharon Osborne, taking it from her dad, who inherited their contract and who ropes in Chris Addison's tone-deaf promo guy to help. Here is a clip.

I think we can all agree. It was an outrage that you were not inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. that you refuse entry. I think it was the letter that upset me, which just said, fuck off. Yes. You could say no, not yet in some things. It said fuck off, sincerely yours.

Yeah, well that's true. Brace yourself. We present the International House of Rock. Oh, babe. This is like the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Like the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, only better because it will have you in it. Yeah.

We're going to build precisely the structure. And in it, we're going to make to memorialise tap rock in general but tap specifically so if you're if you're a tap fanatic you know there's callbacks to a series of jokes there there's the thing about the model being the literal size there's the thing about uh you know i i love your music not spinal tap specifically but the whole rock genre so there's a lot going in there which is playing to the spinal tap fans which is absolutely who the movie is for so essentially they're reunited for the first time in over a decade. They have to prepare the show, old interpersonal rivalries, and more

importantly, age-old affections resurface. Obviously, also, they have to find a new drummer because all their drummers, as you know, if you're a tap fan, have all passed away in bizarre gardening accidents or through spontaneous combustion. There are cameos from characters who were previously central. I mean, I'll let people find out for themselves, because it's quite nice not knowing who is actually going to reappear. There are also more problematically celebrity cameos. So Paul McCartney, who's quite funny. Elton John, not quite so funny. Garth Brooks, Questlove, Lazorich, Chad Smith. So here are the key questions for any spinal tap fan. I got a message from my friend Duncan in Sweden who said, I'm just terrified. I'm terrified

that it's going to be total toilet because that's what happens when you get a sequel to something you love. So is it awful? No. If, I'm sorry, I'm going to do the thing that you hate Simon. I'm going to interview myself. Okay. Okay. Is it awful? No. If you're a tap fan, you're going to find plenty of bittersweet nostalgia. And as we were saying about Downton Abbey, it's nice just to be back in the company of these people, particularly when they've aged, particularly now they've got, you know, bad knees and grey hair. It's just nice to be with them again. Is it funny? Um, I laughed out loud twice. I tittered quite a lot and I, you know, and I grinned through a lot of it. I chuckled. I did,

a lot of chuckling. I didn't do a lot of guffawing. I did a lot of chuckling. Is it as good as the first film? Not by a country mile. I mean, it is worth saying that the first film took a few years to embed for people to understand how funny it was. I mean, I remember seeing it at the Arben in Hume, and I laughed

my head off, and I went with a friend who hated it, and just did not understand why I thought it was funny, and thought I was an idiot. And then over the years, it's through repetition that Tapp has become as funny, as it has, the biggest thing is, do the celebrity cameos help it or hinder it? And I can't help but think that it's the latter. See, the problem is, if you have a bunch of recognizable people who are in on the joke, to me, that deflates the joke somewhat. I mean, I understand why if

you're Elton John, you want to be involved. I understand why if you're, I mean, Paul McCartney is quite funny, but then Paul McCartney is quite funny. He's the Beatles, you know, the Beatles were always quite funny. And Elton John's a lot of things, but it's not a natural comedian. We've seen him in a few performances in films like one of those, the Kingsman movie or whatever it was.

That was terrible. Yeah, yes, exactly. Well, it's not that. It's not that, but it's just not great. See, the main thing is, the first film really looked like a documentary. This looks like a staged comedy. I mean, yes, a lot of it is improvised

rather than scripted, and they are brilliant at doing it because they've been doing it for years. It still feels constructed. Could it have been worse? Absolutely. I mean, if you look at, I mean, I love the Ruttles. The Ruttles was a brilliant, you know, a mockumentary. And then look at the Ruttles sequel, can't buy me lunch.

It's terrible. I mean, it's, you know, the original Ruttles is up there with Spinal Tap. The Ruttles sequel is absolutely awful. I mean, I think it was made by Eric Idle without the involvement of the other Ruttles. And it's really right down there in the pit of awfulness. So the final verdict, for me anyway, is, it's nothing like as bad as it might have been and it's nothing like as good as I wanted it to be

I don't think that like the original it is going to age like a fine wine and become funnier and funnier I love spinal tap and I love the way in which they've created those characters and I wish the movie had been better than it had but because I'm a tap devotee in the same way that Downton devotees

may think the same about the grandfather Nali. I just like being around them for 82 minutes. But it is a footnote. It's really, it's not in the, it's not in the same ballpark as spinal tap at all. And if you're not a spinal tap fan, don't bother. Because it's not for you. It's for me. And I thought it was, okay, could have been worse. Okay, that's tinged with disappointment. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. To disappointment. No, no, no, no, I get that. I remember I was at Radio Nottingham when it came out. And there was an esteemed old producer called Tony Church who had just been to see Spinal Tap. And he did the arts program. I think it was out on a Sunday afternoon or something. And I was choosing some music for a different program. And he was chortling whilst choosing music for his arts show. And I said, why are you chortling? And then he explained what he'd been to see.

And he said for the first half hour, he wasn't sure what it was. because, you know, he had never heard of them and thought it was. And then as it went through, he realized what he was watching, but he was still laughing, you know, a couple of days afterwards. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's the way, you know, it just crept up on him. Yes, yes. Which is probably the best way to have seen it.

Everyone is jostling now for position. This has been a Sony music entertainment production. Here they come. Jen, Eric, Josh and Heather this week's team. The producer was Gem with his clothes on this week, which is a reassurance. The redactor was Simon Paul, who also is clothed. If you're not following the pod already, please do so wherever you get your podcast. Mark, what is your film of the week? Well, you know, I would have loved it to have been Spinal Tap 2. I just looked up interpretations of the original Stephen King Bachman novel of the Long Walk.

And apparently it was originally interpreted as being about the Vietnam War. Donald Trump recently tweeted an image of himself as a heroic, well, anti-heroic character in Apocalypse Now. and he tweeted that about Chicago. He's apparently declaring war on an American city. So Donald Trump imagining himself in the Vietnam War, which he avoided because of bone spurs. You know, it's funny. It does have more relevance now than it did before. Film of the week, and it's not a happy one, the long walk. We would love your correspondence, as ever please. Correspondence at covenomero.com. Thank you very much indeed for listening. Take two has landed for the Vanguard Easter. We'll talk to you very soon.