Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Does THE DEVIL WEARS PRADA 2 rock the sequel trend? + STEVE COOGAN

Episode Date: April 30, 2026

Some exciting news—The Take is now on Patreon: www.patreon.com/kermodeandmayo Become a Vanguardista or an Ultra Vanguardista to get video episodes of Take Two every week, plus member-only chat rooms, polls and submissions to influence the show, behind-the-scenes photos and videos, the monthly Redactor’s Roundup newsletter, and access to a new fortnightly LIVE show—a raucous, unfiltered lunchtime special with the Good Doctors, new features, and live chat so you can heckle, vote, and have your questions read out in real time. On this week’s Take, Mark and Simon return with more of the week’s freshest film reviews – and the Redactor is back from his holibobs (boo hiss). First on the review slate we’ll revisit the world of fashion, ambition, and withering put-downs in The Devil Wears Prada 2, the much-anticipated sequel to the beloved original. Has the magic survived the runway return, or should some classics be left untouched? Then it’s Surviving Earth, a tender new family drama centred on a refugee harmonica player trying to hold his fractured family together. And finally, Hokum, a chilling Irish-set horror about a haunted hotel and a family secret, starring Adam Scott. Plus, Steve Coogan stops by to talk about his new Netflix series Legends, based on the true story of ordinary customs workers going deep undercover to tackle Britain’s heroin crisis in the 90s. One of Britain’s most renowned character actors, Coogan chats to Mark and Simon about playing real people, life beyond Partridge, and how he gets deep into his roles. For the football fans, there’s some Saipan chat too. And as ever, there’s correspondence from the faithful, a few unexpected cinematic tangents, and the familiar blend of conviction, camaraderie, and gentle sparring that keeps the Take motoring along. Oh, and the Laughter Lift—as if we hadn’t all suffered enough. You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo Please take our survey and help shape the future of our show: https://www.kermodeandmayo.com/survey EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Timecodes: 00:11:50 The Devil Wears Prada 2 review 00:22:43 Box Office Top 10 00:26:20 Lee Cronin's The Mummy review 00:38:03 Steve Coogan interview 00:51:56 Hokum review 01:07:04 Surviving Earth Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey Mark, you know I'm a really massive techie, right? No. If you saw me at my local coffee shop in Showbiz, North London, you'd probably mistake me for Neo. From The Matrix, without the illegal hacking or sunglasses indoors, obviously. What are you talking about? You're having some sort of breakdown. Do you actually even own a computer?

What I'm talking about... I'm on it now talking to you. Is the transformation my web browsing has been through now that I've got NordVPN on all my devices. I use NordVPN to keep my online activity safe with encryption, threat protection and dark web alerts to guard against hackers and to secure public Wi-Fi. Well, welcome to the future, Simon. I've been doing that for ages. And with one click, NordVPN can change your devices virtual location so you can access all the

things you need when you're abroad. Unwrap a huge discount on NordVPN by heading to NordVPN.com slash take. With our link, you'll get an extra four months free on the two-year plan. and it's risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee. Check the link in the description. Hey guys, this is Molly Sims, host of Lipsick on the Rim. So I have a little bit of a pet peeve that I think you're going to relate to this. I'll be having a great day, feeling good, and someone will say to me, you look tired. And I'm like, I promise you, I'm not really tired. But here's what I've learned. My eyelids, they do sit a little low. And once my doctor explained that to me, it actually

kind of made a lot of sense. She prescribed me upnique, the first and only, FDA-approved prescription eye drop for adults with low-lying eyelids. One drop per eye in the morning, and I notice my eyes look more open, awake within minutes. And it's like just one simple step, that's it. And the results, guess what? They last up to eight hours. Learn more about upnique.com. That's upaneke.com or talk to your doctor.

Just a little quick safety note about upnick. Oxymataziline hydrochloride, orthomic solution. 0.1%. Tell your doctor your symptoms in medical history, including blood pressure or blood flow issues in heart, brain, or eye disease. Drooping eyelids can be caused by other more serious conditions such as a stroke. Do not touch the tip of the upnik vial to your eye or any other surface. This is not a complete list of risks. Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguard Easter and get an extra episode every Thursday. Including bonus reviews. Extra viewing suggestions. Viewing recommendations at home and in Plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in questions, Schmestians. You can get all that extra stuff via Apple Podcasts or head to extra takes.com for non-fruit-related

devices. There's never been a better time to become a Vanguard Easter. Free offer, now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter, we salute you. You look very chipper, Mark. I'd say beautifully lit. Yes. It would look a million dollars, I would say.

Thank you. I'm feeling good, actually. I'm feeling really, the rowing machine is paying off. Oh, you've got a rowing machine? Yeah, I hate it. I hate it. Yes. It is like something out of Ken Russell's the devil's.

It is a medieval torture instrument. That is correct. And I absolutely hate every minute of being like. People keep saying, oh, you know, when you're doing all this fitness stuff, it's really great. Because after a while you get into the thing and you go, no, you don't. It's just horrible. but, but it works. Now, there's two things I need to show you.

This is a gift that my sister, Annie, gave to the good lady professor her indoors. The good lady professor indoors wanted to be absolutely clear that it was a gift to her rather than something that she got right. So Annie gave it to look, it's a service bell. And we said, what was that for? And Annie said, well, you know, it's like when you need Mark to do something, you know, you just go,

or do it again. Hang on. And the next word is, That is only funny to very old people. Very, very old people. I remember Call My Bluff, presented by Robert Robinson. Earlier on, as we were just getting stuff together, Simon Paul was reading a book by Albert Camus,

and you made a joke. It was looking at the pictures. Yeah, and you made a joke about I'm a Camus, a mother Camus, which again is a joke that only applies to very, very old listeners. Even older people, because Florida's and Swadis is the 1950s, and I only know about it because my parents used to listen to their record. Anyway, I'm going, I've borrowed this bill, so I'm going to you, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I need something, here we go. And the second thing is, when you need something from the production team, from the production team, just going to do that. It's like, the second thing is, um, you are sitting next to a handsomely appointed bookshelf. You can only see this if you're watching on, on, on YouTube. And what's happened is that you have had this beautiful bookshelf built, but you have filled it with what? Well, I haven't, but my, but the good lady ceramicist, who's, in charge of filling. It was her idea to get the bookshelf anyway. And she's rearranged my books

so that basically it's only my books. Only the books I have written. Literally a bookshelf of your own books. Yeah. The unsold, the unsold works, every single one of them, including Polish and Russian and Estonian books. Well, you have got there a copy of the Korean edition of the movie doctors, which is the most spectacular thing. We had nothing to do with this at all, but it's an absolutely brilliant kind of 1950s science fiction cover. It hasn't got us on the cover. It hasn't got us on the cover.

It's got like an image of a doctor with x-ray eyes. And the title in Korean doesn't translate to the movie doctors. It translates to something like cinema goes to the hospital or cinema needs medical attention. It's something very, very literal like that. We should do some gigs because I'm sure we're huge in particularly South Korea. We still have two listeners in the north. We won't go and do a show for them

because you never know who they work for. But, yeah, the world tour, when we go on the cruise in the summer, we should go to South Korea. What do you think? Great, absolutely. I have one other interesting idea for you. Okay. You know how we bird song when rude words turn up in clips?

Yes. Well, I heard a bird today which... And our bird song is very gentle. It's British bird song. That's what it is. Whereas the words that they replace are kind of, obviously, by their very nature, they're vulgar words, their offensive words. You know, people that...

Yes. The kind of words that Mark uses when attempting to set up his camera, for example. Yes, yes, exactly. But are you aware of the white bellbird of New Zealand? I am not. Okay. I'm now going to play you the white bellbird of New Zealand. And this should...

When replacing swear words... Right. I think... Okay, you ready? Yeah. General Atmos. Nice little fluffy bird, right? Yeah.

That's it. What? Here we go again. That's a bird. That's a bird. Now that, replacing some big... Effin and Jeffin. Yeah, a bit of effing and jeffin and mellon farmering.

What we need is the white bellbird of New Zealand to come in and honk and squawk. That's a remarkable noise. You know, there are birds... that imitate car alarms. Yes. We've got one in the street over the road. Or you should that's not just a car alarm? No, we have a lot of those.

But when it gets hot, there's a guy lives up the road and he opens his window. And then we hear his parrot or whatever it is, a parroty kind of bird. And he does all kinds of sounds, including car alarms and telephones. Very confusing. Unless, as you say, it's just everyone's car getting in it.

and people's photos. Anyway, when we eventually start to talk about films, what are we doing? Well, a packed show. We have Devil Wears Prada 2, which is the sequel two decades after the original. Hocum, which is a horror movie. Surviving Earth, which is in Cynamos now, opened last Friday. We didn't have room to fit it in. And last week's show was a really good film. And then we're also going to be catching up with Lee Cronin's The Mummy in the chart rundown. Okay. Special guest is Steve Coogan, who is back with a new series for Netflix called Legends. And in Take 2, what are you up to there? Again, two absolute bangers. Mint, which is the TV series, which has dropped,

the whole of it has dropped on BBC iPlay, all eight episodes. And there is a reissue in cinemas of Stephen Spielberg's AI, artificial intelligence. And I'm sorry, I actually started to choke up a bit even just saying it. One of the films you change your mind about, would that be fair? It is. It's the one that I apologise to Stephen Spielberg for. And then he, well, I'll tell you this when we get to it. But then I think he compared me to one of the greatest film critics of the modern age. Yeah.

And then you told him that Jaws wasn't about a shark, and he said, of course it is. Yeah, that's right. And you said, just because you made the film, doesn't mean you know what it's about. Also, in take two, you get even more of the really groovy stuff, including five-question film club, available for you on Patreon. Three questions, Your Majesty. Thank you. I didn't pause there. Apologies for that.

No, you did. Intros for Cold War, Silence of the Lambs, Heathers, and With Nell and I, amongst many others. Head over to Patreon, if you'd like to join the club. Plus, you get all the other top quality content, ad-free. Although, I do think that the ads are some of the best work that we do. They are, yes. Also, questions, Schmessians, in which Mark and I will answer the question, why are all coffee cups in movies empty?

Actually, weirdly enough, there is an answer to that. Yes. James in Kent has sent us an email. Dear censor and sensibility. I really enjoy, we're starting, you know, with the big stuff here. Okay. I really enjoyed the John Waters interview, particularly the discussion afterwards about free speech. I wanted to offer a brief thought on the phrase shouting fire in a crowded theatre.

Okay. Because I think it simplifies the issue more than it should. Most people agree that knowingly creating a false emergency that could cause physical harm should not be protected speech. But that extreme example tells us little about harder cases, unpopular political views, offensive speech, satire, blasphemy, or speech that causes social discomfort rather than immediate danger. The phrase comes from Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes' 1919 opinion in Schenck versus the United States. But the case had nothing to do with the theatre. Charles Schenck and Elizabeth Bear were socialists convicted for distributing anti-first World War. draft leaflets. Homes used the theatre analogy while upholding their conviction, meaning the phrase was

applied not to an imminent false alarm, but to political dissent. That history matters. The example we now invoke as a common-sense limit on free speech was originally used to justify punishing anti-war speech. When used in modern debates, it can make the hard questions feel settled when they aren't. The real issue is not whether speech can have consequences, but who gets to decide which speech is so dangerous, it must be restricted. Schenck should make us cautious about that cowardice. Up with uncomfortable questions and down with comfortable answers, says James in Kent. I think my issue with that and context and all of that, James, is great.

Thank you, because I didn't know about Schenck versus the United States. And that's obviously where it originally came from. But I don't think that's what John Waters was saying. I don't think he was particularly talking about, of Wendell Holmes or about anti-war propaganda. I think he was literally saying he wants to be able to shout fire in a crowded theatre. And free speech absolutists aren't talking about subtleties.

They're talking about that. That's what I think. Yes. I mean, thank you for the email, which is very on point. I mean, the two phrases that are invoked, I mean, for me, this goes back to the 1980s and the no platforming debate. There's the, you know, George Orwell thing about free speech. You've mentioned that a couple of times.

and I know what you're talking about, but the no platform thing was everywhere in the 70s and 80s. Yeah, so no platform was, there was a huge discussion about it. In the case of, like, let's take Manchester University, no platform meant you're not censoring somebody, but you're not giving them a platform. So, for example, you're going to not want Leon Britain to speak at the Manchester University Student Union.

You're not censoring him, but you're not giving him a platform for his views. and then the opposition would say, well, you know, by no platforming is a form of censorship. And then the two phrases then get invoked in response to that are the all world was paraphrase, you know, free speech is to mean anything, it must mean the freedom for people to say the things we don't want to hear. And then the oft quoted, although I despise what you say, I will defend with my life, you're right to say it. So there was very, very heated debate about exactly what the nature of censorship was. For example, if Radio One doesn't play God Save the Queen by the Sex,

pistols, are they censoring it? There is an argument which is, no, they're not censoring it. They're just not platforming it. And that's where no platform comes from. So there is a kind of, there is a, there is a, there is a woolly area around what actually censoring speech means. I think you're completely right in the case of John Waters, because he was being, you know, possibly facetious. But what he was saying was, I ought to be able to shout fire in the theater, meaning, you know, that's, that is a price of that. Yeah, meaning, meaning literally that. But it's one of the things I would say, I'd say this on a serious note, which I'll then immediately abandon for the rest of the program, that when people talk about freedom of speech, it is a very complicated issue. It is not a twitterable issue. It is not something that can be solved with slogans because it is, there is a really complex issue of what freedom of speech actually means. Correspondence at covenomere.com

Welcome to the show. But we might, you know, that might, again, this podcast might not be the place to discuss that. No, but it's a better place to discuss it than Twitter, Simon. No, that is true. So, correspondence at covenomeroor.com, okay, so there's a big film. I've seen it on a bus. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. So, you know, two decades after the release of David Frankl's hugely successful adaptation of Lauren Weisberger. It's a Ramana Clef. You know, a Romana Clef is a kind of fictional story with a covert basis in reality. So the book was written by someone who had worked as an assistant to American Vogue editor Anna Wintour. And in the novel, Andy Sacks is a Brown's university graduate who works for Miranda Priestley, who is scary editor of runway magazine and the titular devil. So the whole thing

was seen to be, you know, a story about her time working for Anna Wintour. And on screen, those roles were perfectly filled by Anne Hathaway and Merrill Streep with Emily Blunt as Miranda's initial assistant, Emily Charlton, and Stanley Touchy as runway fashion editor, Nigel Kipling, who effectively kind of takes Andy under his wing. So all of those main characters are back for this sequel, as is screenwriter, Alien Brush McKenna, this time working for an original story. There was a sequel novel in 2013, which was Revenge Wears Prada, the Devil, returns. Anyway, so story is, 20 years after the original film story, Andy is now a respected journalist who finds herself in need of a job at exactly the same moment that Runway finds

itself in need of some journalistic credibility. So a few creaky plot contrivances later, Andy is back at Runway as the features editor to the disdain of Miranda, who initially can't remember who she is and then wishes that she could forget her. Miranda, incidentally, now has a lovely and benign husband played by Kenneth Brunard, who seems to exist along with Andy's love interest in a completely different movie. Anyway, Nigel is, once again, a somewhat comforting presence. As for Emily Blunt's character, she is now Dior and loving the chance to throw some weight around his eclip. Lots to discuss. Where would you like to start? Okay, so, um, I am the new futures editor at Runway.

No, you're not. Are you serious? Wow. Wonders never cease. No, I'm actually a journalist now. I've been published in a... It doesn't matter. Anyway, we are all well aware that running that story was a mistake and are taking immediate steps.

I cannot actually get over this. It's really remarkable. A senior editor at Runway. You. Yep. We're all so thrilled. You know what's funny is you've changed. You have.

You're much more confident. Keep those eyebrows, though, didn't you? Can I just ask you a question about that clip? Yes, go ahead. I believe, I haven't seen the movie. That was Stanley Tucci going, mm-hmm, wasn't it? And even though that was his only contribution to that clip, it kind of told you everything about where he was in that conversation with no words.

No, absolutely. So Emily has also managed. to bag herself an extremely wealthy sugar daddy, Benji, who may be in a position to make her even more of a power player. Benji is the ex-husband of Lucy Lou's Sasha Barnes, who is one of the richest and most powerful women on earth, with whom Miranda Priestley would love to get an in, to get an interview,

and she similarly has the ability to pull strings because of her wealth, as did Miranda's mentor, the owner of runway, Ira, who then inconveniently drops dead, leaving his altogether less tolerable son, Jay, to take over the business and scupper Miranda's empire climbing plans. And the first thing you notice from this is

there is an awful lot of plot. I mean, most of it feels entirely performative and perfunctory. I mean, it is just a way of getting characters that you knew and enjoyed 20 years ago back into situations in which they can do the thing that you enjoyed 20 years ago. I mean, seriously, the plot of the original is really simple, right? Wide-eyed graduate enters the world of fashion, encounters dragon-like presence,

who scares and humiliates her, but finally she comes to understand her during the course of the drama, right? This is just a bunch of, I'm sorry, I don't believe a word of any of this in terms of the machinations of the plot. None of it rings true. I can see what you're trying to do. You're just trying to put everybody back together on screen. And from the opening scene of this, in which Andy receives an award for her hard-hitting journalism and immediately gets fired by the magazine, which is cutting all its journalists, contemporary, to the final denouement in which, can you have final denouement?

There's probably a tautology, whatever it is, in which Andy and Moran... Can you have... Yeah, that's a very good question. The denouement is a bit just before the final... Anyway, but to the bit at the end, when there's this whole thing that the two of them, team up together to pull this very unbelievable ace card out of their Louis Vuitton handbags. None of the plot. None of the plot makes any sense at all.

At all. It is literally just there to put the characters in the spaces together. That is kind of, you know, that's all right. That's what happens with sequels. Disappointingly so. However, the problem with this is, that, well, the first thing is, do you remember in the original film, there is a great scene in which Miranda Precii, who is this, you know, I said dragon-like presence, does this really brilliant speech

in which Andy says, you know, this whole thing is all irrelevant. And she says, oh, oh, really, it's irrelevant. It's got nothing to do with you. It's got nothing to do with the real world, which is kind of amusing because you think that you've got, you know, you're exempt from all this fashion stuff. But that lumpy blue sweater that you're wearing, do you know, know how that got there. And then she does this thing about that sweater was actually selected for you by the people in this room because that sweater is not blue. It's actually serrillion. And that was something that was, and she does this whole kind of speech about how the kind of apparently functional sweater that Andy is wearing comes from this other, this whole kind of, you know,

thousands of jobs within the fashion industry. And it's a great scene. And the reason it's a great seen is because it gives the sort of nominal villain of the piece, the person who throws their coat at assistance and behaves really badly, an argument for why they are who they are. And, you know, it does the thing about it kind of upends things. It's a bad comparison, but it's like the thing in the dark night in which Joker says to Batman, don't do that, don't do that. You and I are the same person and does that great thing about, you know, it's one of those things. There is nothing of that caliber in the sequel. What there is is a couple of opportunities for Merrill Street to do that haughty imperial thing that she does so well. I mean, the scene at the beginning in which Andy is

in the office, and she doesn't even recognize her is really, really funny. Then there is some completely unnecessary and utterly unbelievable world turned upside down stuff in which they end up having to travel coach for the first time. And she's appalled by, you know, what it's like not being in first class. Then there's this nod to. the change in the world from print journalism to online journalism and the stuff about journalism generally being under attack. And that is sort of there in order to give it a inverted commas contemporary edge, but I don't believe any of it. It's just zeitgeisty window dressing. As for Emily Blunt, I think she is poorly underserved by a script which kind of reduces her just to

the level of caricature, which she wasn't in the first film. And then there's the big set pieces. There's a big setpiece in which Lady Gaga performs a song which just reminded me of Liza Rinelli coming out at the wedding in sex and the city too. Most importantly, it's neither funny nor biting enough to earn its keep. And watching this, you kind of understand why it is it took such a long time for the sequel to come about because for a long time, the key cast member said they didn't want to do it. And then now they have done it, you go, well, you might have been right the first time.

None of which is to say that this isn't going to be a hit. I mean, when you have the kind of talent that you've got on screen and those characters, of course there are bits of it that are fun and people will go and they'll, you know, but here's the thing, whilst the original is still memorable 20 years later, this is going to be forgotten 20 minutes after you've seen it. You might have a perfectly fine time in the time that you're watching it, but 20 minutes later you're going to be very, very hard pressed to repeat the plot. It is not going to inspire any lumpy blue jumpers somewhere down the line.

It is very, very, all right. Because of the proximity of my new bookshelf. I've just found the shorter Oxford English dictionary. So this is like an actual look. It's got gold pages at the end. I've looked up de Numaumon. De Nouveau. Okay, the unraveling of the complications of a plot

or of a confused situational mystery, the final resolution of a play, novel, or other narrative, it often follows the climax. Oh, it follows the climax. Okay, fine. Typically, fine. So we've probably been,

well, I've probably been misusing that word in that case. This is like an education, this program. It's all because of the bookshelf. It is. Would you say that Hocom is a word to describe Devil Wears Prada, too? Hocum is a film which is out this week. I know. I was wondering if I could combine the two effortlessly. It's really funny because if people aren't watching you on the YouTube thing,

they didn't see when you were just saying that, you looked like you were vogueing. You literally went like that to explain, tying the two things together. You're not like you were throwing some moves. Okay, so you're not going to go with my gift of Hocom. It's just a separate thing. If it works for you, yes, Simon, I would say it is Hocom. What else are we talking about next then? We're going to be talking about a film called Hocum, obviously, a film called Surviving Earth.

We're going to be talking to Steve Coogan about his new TV series, which we're going to review next week. And we'll be doing the Afterlift and the charts. Excellent. All coming up. Infamous is the gossip show that's smart. We talk about Tyra Banks and bringing down top model. We talk about Jenna Jamison and how she dominated the 90s. You know, she's horny and she's in charge. She just was very smart about marketing herself.

We talk about celebrities who maybe shouldn't be celebrities, like the Beckham guy. Brooklyn is their first kid. He's had a little bit of the Nepo baby curse. We investigate orgasm cults. A woman's erotic power can unlock many other powers in her life. And, of course, we discuss people who have gotten into lots of trouble. My name is Molly McLaughlin. I am one of Jen Shaw's many victims.

She was defrauding the elderly, and her tagline was the only thing I'm guilty of is being shamazing. Listen to Infamous, the gossip show that's smart. The show's called Infamous. Fabio Semantilly. Big hearts, big voice, big laugh. A rock star hairstylist who drove a Porsche. He was like a wizard behind the chair. The killers came for Fabio in his own backyard.

You can't rationalize it. You can't figure it out. There was rampant speculation about everything. But every wild theory was wrong, because the truth was even more unbelievable. Well, is anyone hearing what I'm hearing? And even more heartbreaking. The uncertainty of not knowing is a form of agony. From Sony Music Entertainment and Novel, this is cut, color, kill.

I'm Jonathan Hirsch. Coming May 1st to the binge, search for cut, color, kill, wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes, all at once, add free. Okay, here we are with the box office top 10, starting confusingly at number 10 with Akira. Which I think is absolutely terrific. And it's very good that it's back in cinemas. The interesting thing we were talking about before was they didn't get the live action thing off the ground. And the reason they didn't was because how could you do that live action when the animation is so great?

And I think people have been going to see it on the IMAX screen. which is great because a lot of people will only ever have seen it on home viewing. Number nine here, number 17 in America, Fight Club. It's the 4K restoration which we talked about last week. I mean, I really like Fight Club. I think it's very good fun. It's amazing that it's now 15 certificate. As I said, kids today don't know they're born.

Number eight is exit eight. Which I kind of enjoyed. You know, I thought it was, it is an adaptation of a computer game, which is known for its simplicity. but I kind of quite like the simplicity of the setup and I think it does it rather well. Number seven, a new entry, Rose of Nevada. Now look at this.

The weekend total for Rose of Nevada is 172,000. I mean, I know they opened it fairly wide, but that's a very, very good opening weekend. And I'm just, I mean, I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled that a film made by a Cornish filmmaker on wind-up clockwork camera has a top 10 success. It's great.

It is my favourite film of the year so far. I'd be surprised but also delighted if I see anything else of that calibre this year. I mean, it's a really remarkable piece of work and just great that it's in at number seven. Hooray, hooray. Jamie from Stanmore sends a photograph of a very large poster for Rose of Nevada

on the side of a London bus. Oh, right. And says, now that Rose of Nevada has been advertised on the side of buses in London, can we now say that films advertised on the side of buses are now excellent. This goes back a very long way to when we, I think we came up with a conclusion that if it's on the side of a bus, it's a bit pants.

Yes, but we, not anymore. We withdrew that. We appeared on the side of a bus. When we appeared on the side of a bus, precisely so, Simon. When we came to Wayland Utani and we became Kamada Mayer's take, there were massive adverts on the side of buses, at which point we officially withdrew the,

if it's on the side of a bus, it's pants. Because we saw the light. Becky and Dan say, my husband and I went, so there's many, Becky, I think. My husband and I went to watch Rose of Nevada last night at our favourite cinema, the wonderful New Lynn Filmhouse. I have to say this email is basically written by you. Okay, all right, go on.

We loved it. We've been fans of Mark Jenkins' filmmaking style since the brilliant bait, and this latest venture is wonderful. We were utterly engrossed from start to finish. The fishing scenes were in 10. were intense and visceral. The atmosphere and emotion

throughout beautifully captured and the mystery of the plot has kept us thinking and talking about it, the sign of a good film. Watching it in the fishing village of Newlin where some of the filming took place added to the effect.

We both agree it would be good to watch again as there were so many details that we might have missed first time. Thanks for the excellent podcast, best wishes from Deepest Cornwall. Becky and Dan, aka Mark, basically. Yeah, I didn't write that,

but you're absolutely right. I could well have done because I can walk to the Newland Film House from my front door. And just above Rose of Nevada at number six is the magic faraway tree. Which I really enjoyed. And it's doing really well. And we've had so many emails from people have gone to see it, you know, gone out for a family outing and really, really enjoyed it.

It's a terrific success. And number five, number four in America, is Lee Cronin's The Mummy. So this came out when we were off for the pre-recorded. And it wasn't sort of preview screened in advance. So I couldn't review it. So I have now seen it. So do you want a quick capsule review of the mummy? Lee Cronin's the Mummy?

Yes. And also we've got a clip, I think. We have, yeah. So I mean, presumably calling it Lee Cronin's the Mummy, you know, to distinguish it from the Universal's The Mummy or, you know, or any of the other mummy of Tom Cruise and The Mummy. But also, because it isn't really a mummy movie at all. As I said when it was in the charts last time,

there was one reviewer called it The Exorcist with Bandages, and that is what it is. It is a film which includes the memorable line, I'm not here to talk about taxes. I'm here to talk about Egyptian hieroglyphics. That is actually a line in the film. So, Jack Ren and I Costa are a TV journalist and partner whose daughter Katie gets spirited away when they're on an assignment in Cairo. There's this scary lady who gives her a secret friend at the end of the garden,

who gives a nectarine from which a demonic insect emerges, goes into a child disappears. eight years later, child turns up after there's a plane crash, which has got a sarcophagus in it. They open the sarcophagus. There is the bandaged child who is still alive, but now looking like, well, honestly, looking like Reagan and the Exorcist, the family take her back. But she's in this, inverted, inverted, commas, locked in catatonic state. And it soon becomes clear that, as with Reagan and the Exorcist, little girl has legions of problems. unlike Exorcist when the scariest moments are all of those moments when you can't figure out whether it's, you know, is it Reagan or is it Pizzuzu,

this goes absolutely Lollah Pazuzzi from the beginning. So there's loads and loads of Exorcist stuff. Here is a quick clip. Have a quick listen. It's very important you fully prepare yourselves through what you're about to see. No sudden moves. No loud noises. It's a mom and dad. She's been missing for eight years.

What was our daughter doing in a 3,000-year-old sarcophagus? She just needs our care and lots of love. Yeah, what was she doing? What was she doing? What was our daughter doing in a 3,000-year-old sarcophagus? I'm not here to talk about taxes. I'm here to talk about Egyptian hieroglyphics. So, look, I mean, Lee Cronin is an interesting filmmaker.

As far as this is concerned, I mean, I started originally just ticking off the Exorcist's Revenue. So, you know, the facial disfigurement, which echoes Dick Smith's lopsided possession makeup, the fact that the nightgown appears to be completely based on Reagan, when she first awakens out the thing and she's contorting, and that's exact, and then there's a kind of P.O.V. and change. I mean, it's literally like, it's that shot from the exorcist, that shot from the exorcist, levitation, spewing, distended tongue, mother is not going to have an institution. You know, I mean, fine. It's perfectly perfunctory and functional. It's not great.

by any means. It's not terrible by any means. I mean, it's all of it is a lot better than Exorcist Believer. I mean, if we're going to have modern updates of the Exorcist, I'd rather have this than Exorcist Believer. The scary girl thing obviously has been done a million times

in a million movies, everything from Ringu to M. Thregan. There's also a lot of other nods. There's a bit of Wes Craven's people under the stairs. You know, they're in the walls. There's a bit of the omen, the wolves at the gate. There's a bit of Spielberg's E.T. There's a bit of Changeling.

There's a bit of Silence of the Lambs. There's a bit of Exorcist 3 with Mrs. Claylia on the ceiling. And the longer it goes on, the sillier it gets. And it is way, way, way too long. But it's just, it's funny. I've kind of got to the point that I now think, okay, people are just doing, they're just doing Exorcist riffs. And is it better or worse than the actual Exorcist sequels?

And in this case, it's better. I mean, it's not much better, but it is better. Okay. set number five. So the drama is a number four. Which I really, really enjoyed. That is shaping up as one of my films of the year. Number three here and number three over there. Project Hail Mary, one of the big hitters in this week's top ten. I'm just, I am sort of slightly surprised that you didn't like it more than you did, but I do understand the thing about it's because you just literally finished reading the book and the book is so science rich. Yeah, I mean it's, it's it isn't the book,

but I haven't read the book, but I think it is a really, really good film. Number two here, number two there is the Super Mario Galaxy movie, which I just thought was rubbish. And number one, pretty much everywhere,

I think, is Michael. And I'm not just looking at the weekend total. It took more than everything else put together. It did. By some way. It's not just number one. It's very number one.

It is. And before, I'm sure we have some emails, but before we do, I would just like to refer you to the fact they did say when I reviewed it and I didn't like it at all, that it may well be a very big hit. So there we are. And so it turns out to be.

Matthew says, I admit I'm biased as I'm a huge Jackson fan, but I absolutely loved Michael, great performances, particularly from Michael and Joe Jackson. I mean, I think you mean Jafar and Coleman Domingo. But anyway, the film captured the era well and perfectly embodied Jackson's personality,

a joyful cinema experience. Stephanie in Hertfordshire, I went to see Michael on release day with my 17-year-old film student daughter, Maggie, of my local world of Sydney in Hemel, Hempstead. I loved and loathed the film in equal measure. Great performances, but far too rose-tinted. My daughter turned to me at the end and said,

he was so nice, wasn't he? To which I said that perhaps he was at the start. I feel quite strange about the film since I was eight years old when Bad was released, So a huge fan growing up, I still have my program from the Bad Tour. In later years, I felt a big sense of betrayal by Michael Jackson, and I guess that's how I feel about the film now, and perhaps how my daughter will feel when she learns the true story.

I think a lot of people are happy to ignore the elephant, not in the film. People were singing and tapping along in our screening. See you in December at the live show as we have for the last two years. Okay, thank you, Stephanie. Great. See you then. Thank you. And Nick in Leeds says, dear Tito and Jermaine, this jaw-dropping hagiography represents the culmination of surely the most cynically relentless attempt to uncancel somebody in the history of popular culture.

Michael is a work of soulless avarice, a furious attempt to overturn the judgment of history and grease the wheels of a billion-dollar juggernaut that both demise and disgrace have ground to a juddering halt. The film is more sanitised and shallow than Bohemian Rhapsody, and that's saying something, but without that film's Oscar-winning star turn as it's sent to anchor. I think a lot of the guy, I like a lot of the guy's music, doesn't everyone, but these days find it impossible to listen to it without the shadow of those other matters clouding my thoughts. It is ghoulish indeed, which some may say is much like the man himself, something any honest biopic has a moral duty to acknowledge, if not outright wrestle with, and this film fails to do so. So, um,

I guess that's a representative sample. But interesting, particularly Stephanie's one, that she went with her daughter and loved it and loathed it in equal measure, which feels about right, don't you think? Yeah, I mean, I briefly bumped into Robbie Colin at the screening of Devil Was Prada 2, and we had a very quick discussion about it.

And Robbie said something that kind of echoes what I was saying, which was that in what it does, it does it perfectly well. It's, you know, it is a nuts and bolts pop. biopic with a good central performance and absolutely banging tunes. But you can't, in my opinion, you can't ignore the story that it's not telling. And I think that having, I mean, I've seen enough pop biopics that gloss over the darker aspects of a pop star's life. But in the case of this, because it is very, very recent history and it is, it is so in the public consciousness, No matter what you think about the allegations, you can't pretend they just simply don't exist.

The other thing I would say is I think that this goes further than that in that it actually tries to sanctify, Michael. It does have him as, oh, I've got this gift that I can save the world. And it's, yeah, no, that's not good enough. I have absolutely no idea what they're now going to do because the figures suggest, that you have to do a second movie now. How are you going to do it? You know, what are you going to do for an encore, right? Because if you pick up at the end of this film and you do the next film, what have you got? You've got him hanging a baby over the side of a hotel balcony. You've got court cases. You've got the weird business with Lisa Marie Presley. You've got the pop videos in which

his face doesn't appear because, you know, I mean, hey, you want to make that film? go to it but the numbers say you have to yeah but if you make that film you won't have the blessing and therefore you won't have the music precisely precisely

precisely the phrase that I use is watching it I felt very very uncomfortable because I think you can't make that movie and pretend that none of this stuff exists we have further discussion on films that have been out for a while in the overflow car park intake two

available ad free and you'll be able to enjoy some of the very normal comments from Michael Jackson fans. Really? And apologists on our YouTube channel. Oy, oy, yoy, fine. In hot takes and cold comfort in this week's Take Ultra. Right. Okay, let's introduce you to our special guest this week.

Aside from creating one of the most iconic characters in British comedy, Steve Coogan's acting career has, in case you've forgotten, seen him in 24-hour party people as Tony Wilson around the world in 80 days, Topic Thunder, Philomena, which he co-wrote and starred alongside Judy Dench, The Look of Love, Stan and Ollie, The Trip with Rob Ryden, The Reckoning, where he plays Jimmy Saville, chivalry, and now legends for Netflix, which comes out on May the 7th. You'll hear our conversation with Steve Coogan after this clip from the show. A war has started out there.

People will read about it. I'll watch it on their TV, but we won't. We'll be too busy fighting it. So it's heroin. It's heroin. And it's just that. It's just us. Sorry, when you say war, what exactly might that entail?

Well, we work out how it's coming in, and then we stop it coming in. And that's a clip from Legends. Steve Coogan, welcome to the show. Thank you. Very happy to be here. How are you? I'm good. Yeah.

Life's treating me pretty well, I say. You seem to be incredibly busy. You seem to be having some really fantastic roles. Yeah, I'm sort of, I think, as I'm getting old, I'm sort of starting to get those kind of interesting character roles, one of the upsides of aging. And also, something else I've noticed is that younger people who liked me when they were not professional have now got jobs and careers and give me work. So that's another upside.

Yeah, another benefit of aging. So Legends is new on Netflix. It's a terrific series. Introduce us to the world of Legends, Steve. I play the head of customs. It's set in the 90s, loosely based on the true story. There was a lot of heroin knocking around in the early 90s, not that I'd know anything about that.

But yeah, it was all pervasive, and there was a sort of a war on drugs, and it was the last hurrah of the Thatcher era, if you like, in the late 80s. And there was this lot of rhetoric about clamping down on these huge influx. And there was a rise in the number of deaths and heroin seems to be flooding the streets of the country.

And what happened was this, the government tasked the customs people with investigating and trying to stop the drugs coming to the country. So basically what happened is they were given a lot of leeway when a lot of them went undercover, not having been undercover before. So it was almost like taking people off checking bags at Heathrow and training them to be undercover.

detectives effectively and infiltrating these drug gangs which is more or less what happened. So it sort of charts that that period sort of like a bunch of mavericks really who have to get professional. Yeah, they have to get professional very quickly because these are very much ordinary officers.

I mean, this seems to be part of the charm and the thrill of this series is these are not people who have had any kind of career in the police or the army or whatever. These are civil servants, a point that is made in the show. These are ordinary people.

Yeah, I play the sort of the head honcho who sort of has to train them to be undercover, having one scone undercover myself in the story I play Don. This is slightly jaded, older civil servant who doesn't really take, doesn't suffer fools gladly. So it was a lot of fun for me to be sort of immersed in this world and to play the sort of controller of operations. And this really good cast, Tom Burke was fantastic, really great supporting cast. Half it set in Liverpool, half it set in around London, Folkston. And then we go off to Turkey to infiltrate this drugs gang. So it's quite earthy. The script's really well written by Neuforset. It's sort of quite edgy, it's witty. It doesn't tell, it's not too sanctimonious, too serious.

But it is a drama, but there's a nice lightness of touch to the script, which is why I was interested in doing it. And for me, it's always a vacation when I'm just an actor for hire. I'll have to just turn up and say the words, not bump into the furniture and try and make a good fist of the job. Tell us more about Don. So he's the head of operations. He's managing the team. Yeah. You're using your normal voice, I think, aren't you? Well, I'm using a version of a more or more. I mean, I always.

to drama school where they tried to hammer it out and turn turn me into a received pronunciation person which I did for a few years and then I got tired of it and went back to being a northerner but yeah it's probably the closest to any role I've done to using my own accent I sort of slightly northern it up a bit more than it is but it was very very close to me it was quite easy you know it's like one of those roles that for me is like slipping on an old jacket and yeah I felt very comfortable in it it wasn't a big stretch for me.

I didn't have to spend months and months pretending to be a head of customs to get where I needed to be. You can be a civil servant quite easily, Steve, is that what you're saying? Yeah, thanks. The nicest thing anyone's ever said to me. What has happened to Don in the past? Because it's a very moving scene where you're having like a late night dinner with Tom Burke and as you say, he's absolutely fantastic. And you're basically saying, you know, you might not come out of this.

It's called Legends, obviously, because that's the name that when you adopt a different different character which these ordinary officers have to have to do to infiltrate the gangs in Liverpool in London. But clearly Don is a damaged guy by the fact that he has been undercover. What do we know about him? First of all, you're right in saying that these officers have to go deep undercover, which means that to assume new identities and have deep backgrounds that will survive any kind of scrutiny if they're to survive. So they need to live and breathe their roles. and part of Don's story is that he did this in the past and the way to survive is you become so subsumed in this alter ego that you create that you lose yourself and in fact that's what we find happens to to Don, had happened to him in the past and he sort of paid a price for that.

You know, we know he, we know he has a daughter we never see and a marriage that didn't work out but he sort of paid the price for that. And also that I think Don's character represents that sort of, that older male kind of predisposition for not really talking about how you feel. He's sincere and straightforward and honest about things, but not someone who would readily open up or probably seek any kind of therapy. you know, PTSD and all that stuff those terms weren't really used 30 years ago. They're currently very in vogue. But not then. So he sort of represents that kind of someone's struggling,

partly with his identity. So Donner's head of operation says to all these new people that they have to commit to the legend, this other character, and they have to lean into it under stress. And this is a very kind of non-actally question. but I wonder if that's something that's sort of familiar that when you are playing another part, particularly if you're playing a part of someone

who has actually existed in the past, that you have to lean into it to make it believable. Yeah, I've played, I think I've played 11 people who were real in my career and some dead, some living, or some who were alive when I played them. and some are easier than others, but you have to sort of, I mean, all actors have different approaches.

I'm not really what you call a method actor. I don't have to have my lunch as the character when I'm on set. You know, I can step out of it. Thank God. I mean, I played Jimmy Saville. So I wasn't going to wander around at lunchtime pretending to be Jimmy Saville. It wouldn't have been appropriate.

So fortunately, that wasn't my method. But to some extent, really, when I play a character, it's you sort of jump in with both feet, you know, like you're sort of jumping off a cliff into the sea or something. You just hold your nose. You just go for it and don't. Sometimes it helps to not overthink it, but just to sort of move forward. There's an old adage in my business, which is ready, fire, aim. And that's what I tend to do when I'm playing any kind of character. So it's sort of run at it and figure it out, hopefully, before I get there.

Most recently seen as Mick McCarthy in Saipan, so Mark hasn't seen legend, but Mark has seen Saipan. The Mick McCarthy character, was that quite an easy fit for you? Yeah, I mean, I spoke to Mick. He's not too pleased with the film, I don't think. He spared me any ignominy. But I did talk to him, and I had to sort of do my interpretation of what I thought he is, or he was.

It wasn't a great stretch. He's part, Mick McCarthy's part of the Irish diaspora. He's a northerner. I mean, I tick both those boxes. So it didn't feel like a huge stretch. I felt like from all the sort of footage that we garnered that his character is very distinct from Roy Keene

and this argument, this face off between the these two characters was something I could see went beyond at football. The thing that's fascinating about Saipan is, Steve, as you know, what I know about football wouldn't fill the back of a postage stamp. And I knew nothing at all about the Saipan incident, as it is referred to. I've been told by people, you know, if you're in Ireland, it was an absolute national event.

Yeah. What I did know was that Glenn Laban and Lisa Barroster saw are two of my favorite filmmakers. I love their movies. I love good vibrations. I love ordinary love. And I think that they, that what that film did, for somebody who did not know any, I don't think I'd heard of any of the people in it, I knew nothing about the incident, it works as a drama. So it's not just the thing about playing a real life character, is it's making sure that the

drama works even if you don't know the story. Yeah. I'm glad you said that. I mean, I wasn't, I didn't know a huge amount about football. I've a lot of, I'm from a big family and all my sibling brothers are all mad, you know, football heads, as is my mother, but I'm not, really. So it had to work for me that way. I think that, you know, Lisa, who does most talking on set in that sort of husband and wife duo, is very intuitive and I felt very comfortable with her.

I mean, I worked with both of them again in a heartbeat. They made life very, they made things feel just really natural and workmanlike. And yeah, I love them. It was, you know, I mean, I sort of, I remember when they were making good vibrations, I saw that script and I think I was supposed to do something in it, but I wasn't available. But I loved that movie as well. So it was quite an easy choice for me to join that, this sort of Mick and Roy Saipan project. Essentially, because if it had just been about football, I'm not sure I would have been interested,

but because it was about, you know, national identity, you know, what your attitudes should be, you know, whether you're inclusive, whether you're with, you know, your colleagues, whether you're collegiate or you're a one-man band, you know, how you view your life. There's no right or wrong. You know, McCarthy isn't right or wrong, and neither is Roy Keen. So it's, I always think a good film is a kind of film

way when you're leaving the cinema, if you're with someone else, you're still discussing it and deciding what point of view you think, was the right one and that's always a result people are asking questions. I'm just delighted to hear that you really enjoyed working with Lisa and Glenn because I think they are two of the best filmmakers working at the moment and I think their names should be more widely known because I think they're really terrific. Yeah, I agree. I mean I said they remind me a little bit of um I said they have a

sort of a lightness of touch about stuff that's really they remind me a bit of Bill Forsyth. Again, one of my favorite filmmakers. Yeah, that they have that sort of um, it's sort of deep waters lightly skipped over. Great phrase. Great phrase. I like that, I like that. So Saipan is out and Legends is on Netflix and is available from May the 7th. Steve, always a pleasure. Thank you very much indeed. Cheers, enjoyed it.

Steve Coogan. Obviously, Steve Coogan. Obviously. It didn't be anyone else. No. Talking about this, you show Legends. Now, you'll do a proper review next week. Yes. So since we recorded that interview, because that was, that interview was recorded a couple of weeks ago, I have now seen legends.

We can't review it yet because it's under embargo until next week. But I don't think it's going to be, because you kind of implied this in the thing that you enjoyed it very much. And you told me that before I watched it. And I have lots to say about it, but the headline is I enjoyed it very much as well. Yeah. Yes. And I think when I started, so we're talking like literally the first two, this isn't the review. view. I don't think I'm breaking an embargo.

No, no. Anyway, if it's positive vibes, what are they going to be protesting? Get over it. The first two or three minutes, I thought, oh, have I see, we've seen this before. And then because, as you heard in the interview, because these aren't cops undercover, it just felt even more scary.

The fact that these were literally, like, office workers who'd volunteered, volunteered to do something, which was completely out of their comfort zone. Yeah. But if you're going to do that, be Tom Burke. Yeah, exactly. It is a drama about people out of their depth. And as you say, that kind of cranks up the tension because you're not expecting any of them to deal with it particularly well because they're not prepared. Yes. So that will be reviewed on next week's program. The show is called Legends. Much to come on that. And when you've seen it, correspondence at covenovenovo.com. What is out that you can review, Mark?

Hocum, as you kind of alluded to before when you were vogueing after the Devil Wes Prada 2 review. So this is pretty effective, haunted house horror from Irish director and writer Damien McCarthy, who made caveat and oddity. There is more than a touch of Stephen King about this. And I didn't know this when I saw it, but this is billed as from the producer of weapons. And of course, weapons was very, very Stephen King. So this was shot in West Cork, I think shot last year, played to enthusiastic reception at South by Southwest in March of this year. Stars Adam Scott, Adam Scott, he will know as Ben from Parks and Recreation or Mark from Severance, which I think is actually a more important connection, is Unbaumon, who is in the process, he's a writer,

who is in the process of finishing a series of books that he's written. And the series looks set to finish on a very dark, open-endedly downbeat note that sees, to represent the writer's own state of mind. He has traveled to Ireland to the hotel where his parents came when they were first married. He has brought their ashes with him. He's also brought a very bad attitude. He's rude. He's dismissive to everyone. And the hotel, just kind of, you know, an old hotel, rural hotel, seems to mirror his despondency and his anger. And soon he learns that the hotel is said to be haunted. And indeed, the honeymoon suite is gated off, completely gated off. No one is allowed to go in there ever. And then things start to get properly weird. Here is a,

here's a clip from the trailer. Fado, Fado. Long, long ago, deep in the woods, they lived. Is your kids? No. Don't talk to strangers. There are worse things than strangers out there, Yank. It's just a bit of crack. Can I get a room as far away from the crack as possible? First time in Ireland. Yeah.

My folks came here for their honeymoon. Always wanted to come back. Why didn't they? Well, once you've seen the honeymoon suite, you'll know exactly why they didn't come back. So you hear from the trailer, it kind of gives you a good sense of both the sort of rye, dark, humor and the creepy nature of the story. So I said it's a bit Stephen King. There is a bit of misery in the idea of the author finishing a book in the way that he wants, but that not necessarily other people will want. There's Fiona who works behind the bar in the hotel, asks him to

tell her how the book is going to end. And he does. And she says, well, I won't be reading that. I mean, why would I read a book that ends like that? There is a lot of the shining in the idea of the hotel that mirrors the internal turmoil of one of its visitors. You know, this obviously also relates to the haunting of Hill House, which as you know is kind of Stephen King, or which refers to as the urtext of all haunted house stories. And there's also a touch of deliverance in that thing about the, you know, the author, the educated elite who goes out to this rural backwater where everything is folklore and butchery. And there's a fair degree of dark humor about the setup. I mean, the obnoxiousness of the author is funny.

There's something also a bit sort of Royston Vasey about some of the characters. I mean, at times, I was thinking about this way, thinking, how would you describe this? And it's like, well, it's like Barton Think meets Father Ted via Stephen King, you know. I think that's actually quite a good comparison. Most importantly, however, the film has a really good sense of atmosphere. It's got a terrific use of its central location. it's got a very firm grip on the mechanics of making jump scares that aren't simply quiet, quiet bang.

There is a sort of genuine sense of trauma and loss and folkloric going on in the background. But there's also enough kind of foreground, woodsy weirdness and stuff about magic mushrooms to give you the creeps, but also to do so in, as I said, a kind of darkly satirical way. When I saw it, I saw it at, well, the screening room, that I still refer to as Mr. Young's, which technically Soho screening rooms, which you've been to as well, as one of my favorite screening rooms in London.

And I was sitting in the front row, and a critic friend of mine was sitting behind me. And at one point, they jumped so much that they kicked the back of my chair really hard. So it was like watching the film in 4D, you know, it was like, whoa! And it was, and honestly, on the strength of this, I think Damien McCarthy is really shaping up as a talent to watch.

And so I thought it, It got the atmosphere right. It got the balance of the horror and the humor right. And there is a really well-established creepy atmosphere. It's not world-changing by any means, but it is a good, well-made, creepy, darkly, funny horror movie. And just because I like this kind of stuff, Hocum, yes, dates from 1917,

and is a combination of Hocus Pocus and Bunkum. Oh, wow. And, hocus pocus. Now remind me, yeah, fine, tell me where hocus pocus comes from. It's my favorite. I think it was one of the reasons I got into all the etymology stuff. Hocus pocus is a mickey take of the mass, the Catholic Mass.

And it's that it was, so the words from the mass, Hockest corpus, here is the body. That's right. And it was magicians who were being sarcastic and taking the Mickey out of the mass by, so Hockes Corpus became Hocus Pocus. Just amazing. Yeah. I just think it's terrific.

Yeah. Fantastic. And also, because you said the er text, I know that there'll be. Oh, yeah, sorry. That's not, that's not, Mark wasn't hesitated. It wasn't the, uh, the text. The O text. You are, which is German for out of and original.

So that's where. That is. But you can't take the PhD out of Mark. that's what that's about it once a PhD student always a PhD student anyway so Hocom that sounds good then

you know that's yeah I enjoyed it I enjoyed it okay so let's step with Gay Abandon into the laughter lift now which each week recreates the lift scene from the outtakes of

return of the Pink Panther Can I can I Y K YK as the kids say Mark What I YK Y K YK K Y K Y K Y K if you know you know

Oh yeah, very good. So with a live intro from Mark. Okay, now it's time for the laughter lift. Hey, Mark. Hey, Simon. I'll never forget what dear old granddad Mayo said to me just before he croaked. Okay.

Come closer, young Simon, he whispered, would you like to hear my frog impression? Hey, Mark, some bad news. The good lady ceramicist her indoors threatened to leave me again this week. She said I was too... That's a regular occurrence, isn't it? It is. It is in the laughter. It is. Go on.

She said I was too arrogant. Me, arrogant. I said, okay, good lady, ceramic, sister, her indoors. Don't let the door hit you on the way back in. Oh, two. Okay. And this one from the archives. All right.

I mean, I think I learned this at university. Hey, Mark, did you know Charles Dickens, a tale of two cities, was first serialized in two very specific local newspapers. One in Oxfordshire, the other in the West Midlands. Yes, you're right. It was the Bistar times. It was the Worcester times. Oh, okay. No laughs, but multiple bell rings. It saves you laughing. It does. So much easier.

Very good. I enjoyed the laughter lift last week when it was a joke sent in by the audience. They were good, weren't they? No disrespect to Paul Simon, but anyway, there you go. Okay, what's still to come? I'll tell you, surviving Earth in just a moment. Rolling, rolling. Keep them. Keep them doggies rolling. Is it doggies?

Keep them rolling, rolling, rolling. Is it keep them dogies? Is it doggies? That doesn't sound like. No, what is, hang on. I have to look it up now. You can't, it's impossible also to play raw hide without playing it now behind a fence

because of the Blues Brothers. Raw hide lyrics. Here we go. Rolling, rolling, rolling, rolling, rolling. Yes. Keep them doggy. It is. It is.

Keep them doggies rolling. Yeah. That doesn't make sense. Yeah, it is. Through rain and weather, hell bent for leather, wishing my gal was by my side. All the things I'm missing, good vitties, good vitals, love and kissing are waiting at the end of the moment. That's right now. That's right now.

Well, there we go. Chris Duncalfe in Sutton, Courtney in Oxfordshire. Dear Ford and Arthur, long-term listener, second-term email. I write regarding your discussion on April 23rd, where Simon offered a succinct one-word descriptor of certain breeds of philosopher. I could not... Who knew that getting tangled with philosophy was going to...

I blame, obviously, French cinema in general. I could not help, says Chris, but think of the great Douglas Adams, specifically the scene in Hitchhiker's Guide. I grew up on tapes of the original radio series. Excellent. Where deep thought is being programmed to search for the answer to the ultimate question.

The programmers are interrupted by a delegation from the amalgamation union of philosophers, sages, luminaries, and other professional thinking persons who demand both that the machine be switched off and that there be a, quote, rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty. That's right. That's right. We'll go on strike, says the first philosopher. That's right, his colleague adds. You'll have a national philosopher's strike on your hands, at which point deep thought interjects to ask, who will that inconvenience? Love the show, Steve. Up with the usual, down with the other stuff. I think the sartre people are going to take offence at that now. It reminds me, however, of something very funny that Peter Bradshaw,

critic of The Guardian, said that we were at a screening once. And there was some shenanigans or, you know, flim flam going on that had made the day particularly difficult. And I said, you know, more ingest than anything else. I said, oh, for heaven, say, we should just all go on strong. strike. And Pete Bradshaw immediately said, yes, just imagine the public outrage, all those unreviewed films piling up in the streets. You could stand behind a bin burning things, warming your hands in the middle of summer. Yeah.

That'd be good. Everyone would come out on striking sympathy with you, Mark. Would they? Would they? No. One out, all out. Craig Woolwork says, dear Benson and Hedges, a long-time listener, second-time correspondent, a note of reassurance for Simon following his admission of paranoia on last week's show regarding his new book. Some 15 years ago, and desperate to get my first publishing credit as a writer, I agreed to sell my manuscript to an indie-based publisher who issued their titles only on e-book.

When it came to the release date, I couldn't have been more excited. I had arrived and was now a fully fledged author. However, following its launch, those that ordered the book started to reach out to me to say that there were, I think you mean contact, to say that there was a problem. The publisher had mistakenly uploaded the manuscript version with editorial comments still attached. Oh, my goodness, me. This meant that anyone who bought a copy

also got the added bonus material of reading all my grammatical errors and suggestions on how to improve the narrative. Wow. This was just one, imagine that. Imagine your last book going up with your notes and editors notes. This was just one literary incident of many that has left me battered and bruised,

roosed over the years. So from one not so successful writer to one that remains respected and adored by many, you're not alone in your worries and paranoia. The manuscript will never be truly finished. There will always be something that could be improved. As Ray Bradbury once said, you fail only if you stop writing. Down with Nazis and unnecessary adverbs. Thank you, Craig. For that reassurance. But it's right. Was it Sam Mendez? Was it the Sam Mendez James Bond film where we asked him, it was one of our live shows, because I'm sure we had an audience, I'm sure it was in the West End,

and he said he was very bad at stepping away from his work, that there was always something to improve. He'd literally stopped like three weeks before or something. Yeah, there was a joke about, how do you know when the movie is finished, and it's when they have literally wrenched the reels out of my fingers. I remember when I wrote the BFI Exorcist book in 1998, or 97, I think it was, that I got back

an annotated manuscript and at one point the person who was editing it I had written something like, you know, this is the point at which the film tips over into blah, blah, something else, and they had literally underlined it and written, oh, F off. Fortunately, my editor is not that crude.

In between these conversations, I have had, in this new thing that I've done, I'd invented a word and I was sure that the editor was going to put a line through it and say, you have got to be kidding. Or, you know, with the same kind of feeling as you just did. But it's gone through, it's gone through on the nod. So I think. What's the word? I'm not going to tell you.

Okay. Well, I will tell you, but, you know, we'll have to, not with this microphone. Oh, I say, okay, fine. But inventing words is a thing. I mean, F. Scott Fitzgerald invented the word organ. And people correct it. You know, in the, because it's in the final paragraph of the Great Gatsby, and he says the augustic future, which year by year recedes before us.

And there are versions of the Great Gatsby that correct it to orgiastic, but it isn't. The word in his manuscript is the augustic, and it is an invented word. Okay. I'm not sure mine will be very useful. But anyway, we shall find out. Anyway, let's talk about something that's out. I think you've already said at the top of the show that you liked it. Yes, Surviving Earth.

So this is in cinemas now. This came out last week, but we had such a packed show last week. Yes, we weren't able to review it. So this is the debut feature from writer-director, Thea Gaiich, who I first met at a film festival last year in Croatia. Now, I think I'm right in saying that her father is Serbia and her mother was from Liverpool. She grew up down south. we met on the island of Lopard when she had made the film and she was looking for distribution and is now out.

And anyway, when we met, she had a tattoo on her arm of a harmonica. And I play harmonica, as you know, and I started talking to her about why she has a harmonica tattoo. And she said, well, it's to do with my dad and it's to do with this film that I made about her dad. So her dad was a musician who played harmonica and who dealt with some very dark addiction issues in his life and she had made this film surviving earth about him about his struggles about his music and about his relationships with his family here is a is a clip from the trailer always stick to these three things in life something to do someone to love and something to look forward to

hey mike hi mike this is maria my daughter i don't think you've met hi darling nice to meet you i've got something for you I can't play. Oh, maybe a hundred times where I told you, if you can breathe, you can play the harmonica. Which, of course, we all know is absolutely true. If you can breathe, you can play the harmonica. So, Savgo Sobin is glad. But you played it particularly well, I have.

Thank you, Simon. That is very kind of you to say so. But as we know, the great thing about the harmonica is you can't play a wrong note, unless you've got a chromatic harmonica, in which case you can play every wrong note. So playing the harmonica is easy. Playing the chromatic is rather more difficult. There's very good harmonica playing in this film, incidentally. So Vlad is recovering addict who arrived in the 90s, is now living in Bristol.

He has a daughter, played by Olive Gray, who lives in London, has a very conflicted relationship with him due to his past addiction and abandonment issues. And he plays in a Balkan band doing support slots where people talk all over their sets. And they want their own gig. And his band, they dream up a night called the Balkan Express. But putting on a gig requires money. and it also requires bad not to fall back into his old habits and addictions.

So as I said, this is the feature debut from Theagaiich, and I think it's a really impressive piece of work. I mean, it's one of those films, we've talked about this before, that proves that universality comes from getting the specific details right. So, you know, if you get the minutia right,

the bigger picture falls into place. And I think it's, there are many of us who will not have lived experiences that are anything like what's going on in the film, which is very, very closely autobiographical. I interviewed the director of director on stage at the BFI earlier this week. And we were saying how close is it to reality? He said, no, it's very, very close. And because those experiences are very specific, you might think, well, how are we going to get into this?

But because the details of that are done so well, and because it feels authentic, it rings true. And I also think everyone can understand themes of both loving and being estranged from a parent and seeing your parents struggle with stuff and feeling alienated from, but also intimately connected to that. The other thing, of course, is that music is a driving force in the film. The music is the central character's spirit. It's vibrant.

It's exciting. It's unruly. It's a little bit dangerous. And I think that when the film does the musical sequences, they're done with such a confidence, they're done with the confidence of somebody who has found a way into the story that can then speak to other people.

And there is a harmonica, a central harmonica in the drama, which is passed from father to daughter and has come down generationally. And it's kind of, it's like it becomes like a talisman. And there is a moment in the film when the harmonica gets stepped on and I literally gasped out loud

when it happened. I was like, you know. Is that like the otter getting it? The ring of bright water? Same thing. That film has really done for you, hasn't it? You're never, ever going to get away from that awful moment.

When the harmonica gets it. I think it's one of those things that when somebody manages to pull something like that off to make you genuinely gasp at something as apparently, ordinary as a small musical instrument getting stood upon. What that tells you is that the films worked, that it has drawn you enough into the story and you believe enough in the bits and the mechanics of the story, you're invested enough in them to be shocked by something as apparently unsensationalist as somebody stepping upon a harmonica. The other thing I would say is,

if I still had the Scarlet show, which of course I don't, because Scarlet doesn't exist anymore, If I did, I'd be playing the tunes from this film every week because I love that kind of music. So, anyway, as I said, it came out on Friday. It's in cinemas now, but I think it's a really terrific piece of work. And it's got great reviews. And it's really good to see. It's really, really good to see yet another filmmaker making their mark. And once again, demonstrating that, you know, inventive, adventurous cinema is alive and kicking.

When you've seen it, let us know what you think. Correspondence at covenomero.com, that is it for this week. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh, Heather and Dom, the redactor of Simon Poole, who's back from his very, very long holidays. And if you're not following the pod already, please do so wherever you get your podcasts. Come and join us on Patreon, Mark. What is your film of the week?

Well, no surprise, I think, surviving Earth. Absolutely. Go see it. It's a terrific movie that needs your support, and I was really excited by it. There will be another take which has landed adjacent to this one. I am going to bestow a year's ultra membership to our correspondence of the week. I think Chris Duncalfe, our Douglas Adams philosopher. Yeah, that was brilliant. I enjoyed that one.

So Chris will be in touch. Thank you very much, Steve, for listening. We'll talk to you soon.