Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Does the new Austen adaptation suit Mark's sensibility? With George MacKay

Episode Date: September 24, 2026

The Take is now on Patreon: www.patreon.com/kermodeandmayo Become a Vanguardista or an Ultra Vanguardista to get video episodes of Take Two every week, plus member-only chat rooms, polls and submissions to influence the show, behind-the-scenes photos and videos, the monthly Redactor’s Roundup newsletter, and access to a new fortnightly LIVE show - a raucous, unfiltered lunchtime special with the Good Doctors, new features, and live chat so you can heckle, vote, and have your questions read out in real time. George MacKay is our special guest this week, and he’s in full dashing Austenian gentleman mode to tell Simon all about Sense and Sensibility. He plays Edward Ferrars, the handsome and thoroughly upstanding chap who catches the eye of Daisy Edgar-Jones’ Elinor Dashwood. He talks about bringing this Austen classic up to date, three decades on from Ang Lee’s classic screen version starring Emma Thompson, Kate Winslet and Hugh Grant. Mark reviews the film, plus another three big movies hitting cinema screens this week. There’s Heart of the Beast, a survival thriller starring Brad Pitt as an ex-special forces soldier living on society’s inhospitable margins alongside his ex-service dog. Plus we’ll finally get Mark’s verdict on Her Private Hell, the latest neon-soaked feature from recent Take guest Nicolas Winding Refn. Last but certainly not least, Boorman and the Devil - a documentary about the making of the colossally unsuccessful sequel Exorcist II: The Heretic. Surely this one is Kermode catnip. Plus the weekly joy (and/or pain) of the Laughter Lift, and of your consistently excellent correspondence. Keep it coming! You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo. A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! Our Christmas Movie Spectacular is back! It’s in Bristol this year on Sunday 6th December. Don’t miss it! Here’s the link for tickets: https://www.fane.co.uk/kermode-and-mayo Timecodes: 00:00:00 Introduction 00:10:15 Her Private Hell review 00:19:29 Box Office Top Ten 00:31:46 George McKay interview 00:47:24 Sense and Sensibility review 00:56:40 Laughter Lift 00:59:20 Boorman and the Devil review 01:08:29 Heart of the Beast review Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What's up? What is... Everything is up. Everything is up in the... So we need to explain at the beginning. Are you all right? You've got to aspire. Okay.

We need to explain at the beginning of this program how this is working. So I am not in Cornwall. I am in London. Shep somewhere. No, I'm in the heart of the Take HQ on Theobald's Road in London. Take HQ. Okay, it looks very lovely. Exactly.

Well, you know what it's like, Simon. You've been here before. I was there yesterday, in fact. You would hear yesterday when you were speaking to today's guest, which I won't preempt. But you and I were going to be. be doing the show in the same space. We are now not doing that. For complicated reasons, you are actually at your home in showbiz, North London. I am at the home of the Take HQ. And the reason I am here is because, and the reason I'm dressed as immaculately, like you're an

elder statesman. Thank you. I will take that in the spirit, in which it's intended, is that I am wearing my suit because I am going from here to Heathrow to go to New York to introduce the direct cut of the Devils at the New York Film Festival. Have they seen your social media feed in customs? Thank you for bringing that up straight away, and I'm glad this podcast won't go out until after. So when you're listening to this podcast, one of two things will have happened.

Either I will be ensconced in New York and, you know, gearing up to do the devil's thing, or I will be on a flight home because, as Simon just pointed out, they're a bit jumpy. But the other thing is, the last four times that I've been on a plane, they have lost my luggage.

And the last time I, the last time it happened, I was coming back from Ireland, they lost my base. So I have to, I've got it back, but, you know, I have to have this suit to introduce the film because it's at the Lincoln Center and I have to be in a suit. And I figured the only way I can guarantee

that they can't lose my suit is I have to wear it now on the plane. So I literally had to wake up this morning in Dean Street and then slub all the way over here to Theobald's Road wearing the suit. and then I'm going to be in the Elizabeth line wearing the suit and I'm going to think and then I'm going to have nine hours on the flight to get to there where they won't look at my social media

and then, so anyway, that's why I'm dressed as an elder statesman. So what time? When are you on stage? Not today, Saturday. I'm going today because I've got to, I'm doing interviews for the film because I'm sort of the, because I was involved in the restoration. So I'm the voice of the reissue. I'm being interviewed by Rolling Stone. You're the restorer, in fact.

Well, no, I'm the, because I didn't do the restoration. I helped them find the footage however many years ago it was. But we'll review it when it comes out. I'll tell you my review, film of the year. It's going to be fab. But I just want everybody to collectively hope that by the time you're listening to this, I am indeed in America through customs. I am not Guantanamo.

Yeah. And can you actually not make those jokes? Because I'm actually genuinely quite anxious about this, all right? Okay, yeah. All right. How are you? I'm very good. So you're going to stand up at a podium at the Lincoln Center?

It's on stage at the Lincoln Center. Yeah. On stage at the Lincoln Center. I mean, I did it at can. You know, I did it at can and it was fine. Is it the Lincoln Trump Center? Is it that place? No, that's the, that's the, what are they calling that?

Kennedy. The Kennedy Center, yeah. which he's apparently going to knock down because they said he couldn't call it the Trump Center. So apparently he's going to knock it down. Yeah. Well, there's an apology in take two, which I have to make, because it's easy to confuse your American presidents. And I did last week, but we'll get to that.

Did you? Okay. Yeah, in take two. Anyway, that's enough jaunty interplay for now. Why don't you tell us what you're doing for the rest of the show? I just want to say firstly to the listeners, it does actually say on the script, delightful, jaunty interplay.

That was it. I think we've done that. And then it says Mark talks enticingly about... So the films were reviewing, Heart of the Beast, Brad Pitt and a dog. Borman and the Devil, which is a documentary about the making of John Borman's

exorcist to The Heretic, her private hell, about which you spoke to Nick Winding Reffen last week, or NWR, as he describes himself, and a new version of sense and sensibility with our very, very special guest. Yeah, it has a great cast

and George McKay is one of those stars in an ensemble to die for and so George McKay will be talking to us about sense and sensibility also reviews in Take 2 available on Patreon what are you doing there?

We have a review of Baby Star which is a film which concludes that social media, it's not entirely a good thing and also we have our five-question film club, three questions your majesty which I'm very excited about this week. You can get Take 2 ad free by heading to our Patreon page. Just search Kermitomeo Patreon and you'll find us there. Here's an email from, well, this is a very good star, isn't it? Chris. It's from Chris.

It's going swimmingly. Yeah. Dear Catchup and Mayo, I followed the show through its many incarnations, and I think this podcast is the best yet. How about that? That's a good, that's a good promise. Great. Chris. With so many films now pushing well beyond two hours, I've started treating bathroom break strategy as a vital part of my cinema planning. The cinema, after all, doesn't have a pause button. I've had two memorable experiences. During the dark night, I was desperate for the Lou halfway through, but I was so engrossed I refused to leave. It was an uncomfortable victory, but I made it to the credits. My second experience was less successful at a sold-out

IMAX screening of Star Trek into darkness, I accepted defeat and went to the bathroom, only to return and completely forget where I was sitting. After awkwardly climbing through the wrong row and apologising to numerous strangers, I finally found my seat but spent the rest of the film mortified. Since then, I always go just before the trailers. Do you, or the Vanguard, have any cinema bathroom rituals? And do you share the fear of missing something crucial while away. Up with intermissions and down with extra large beverages. Kind regards from Chris. I mean, there's a good point there about extra large beverages. That's the first thing. Don't. Yeah. Don't have one. I think your bladder is weaker than mine. That's my hunch. What is your,

and you're seeing movies all the time. What is your strategy? Sorry, why do you think that my bladder is weaker than yours? Because you, you seem to nip off to the loo more often. Do I? I think so. Anyway, I might be Right, but anyway. Can I just say, can I just say never during screenings? I don't ever leave the film to go to the loo in a screening. And the reason for that. How do you work that one through? Yeah. The reason for that is firstly, when you're a film critic, the first question anyone asks is, what's the running time? In fact, my very good friend Nigel Floyd said that if he ever wrote his autobiography, which he won't, he's going to call it, what's the running time? So the first thing you do is what's the running time? And then, for example, say I've got a 10 o'clock screening and the running time is over two hours, okay? Yeah.

Fine. In that case, no fluid intake before that. You know, wake up in the morning, maybe you have an espresso, that's fine. but no fluid intake for at least a couple of hours beforehand and literally go for a wee at three minutes to 10 at the last possible moment. Yeah, absolutely. You have to because, I mean, you think about it if you're an audience member,

I mean, if you step out of Star Trek into darkness, you could go out to the loo, come back, they could be in an alternative universe. They could be character, you know, it's, I, yes, you can't do that. So that's one of the reasons we have to be very, very, very, very careful about it. Yes. You have to be, basically, you have to have, you know, if you have the discipline and mindset of a film critic, Chris, you'll be fine. It's if you're kind of slack and you just go,

oh, yes, I'll have an extra large Diet Pepsi. Thank you very much indeed. Although Diet Pepsi, I don't like very much. But, you know, anything large, you are going to have to disappear all the time. But we do recommend the Run P app. Have you heard this? Yes. It's identified the following micturation opportunities. So basically, it's a, it's a, it's a film app that It tells you when you can go and have a pee without missing anything crucial. So, for example, in The Odyssey, at 2730, 27 minutes and 30 seconds, for three minutes and 50 seconds, when Odysseus says, with a little luck and the right winds, we'll see some more of the world and still get home before Agamemnon. There follows mostly scenes about sailing and pillaging for resources. So this is very useful.

at 58 minutes and 50 when Odysseus says the men became more convinced that I offended Poseidon this is one big action scene that's easy to summarize so it's full of that kind of thing I didn't know this existed until this week so the run P, if you think that you're going to see an epic and you know that you're not going, even being disciplined the way Mark is,

that you're not going to be able to make it, it sounds like a crucial app to have so that they've seen the film and they can tell you when to go to the toilet. Can I just say, I'm slightly offended that you think so poorly of my bladder. I'm trying to think on what you're basing it, because I've never in a screening with you. You've never, well, we're rarely in screenings together. But when am I constantly rushing off to the loo?

If we're in the pub, if we're in the pub, then that's different. Because if you're necking pints, then yes. I think it's just a general sense. How can you have a... You can get in touch with the show, that's what offends me. That's what offends me is that you have a general sense. of me needing to go to the loo. Tell us something that's out this week.

Her private hell. Yes. This is the new film from Nick Winding, Reffen. Nick Winding, Reffen. Oh, yes, or Vending or however. Anyway, NWR, as he described it. Director of Drive, only God forgives Neon Demon. I have to say, I've been a fan of many of NWR's films,

which are perhaps best known for their glossy visual style, lots of pink, lots of blue, but I think at best have some real substance. Okay, so her private hell. Technically, this is a science fiction inflected thriller in which Sophie Thatcher is Elle, and forgive me if some of these plot points aren't quite right because it's a bit confusing. She's an actress playing in a film, apparently living in a tower, surrounded by Mist. Christine Fraseth is her new co-star Hunter.

Elle has a frosty relationship with her stepmother Dominique, played by Havana Rose Lou, and who has married her filmmaker father, Johnny Thunders, was Du Grey Scott. And there is also a mythical killer at large, the improbably named Leather Man, which is presumably, you know, a killer who's got a useful Swiss knife attachment that fits like a multi-dozer very good.

Anyway, here is a clip from the trailer for her private hell. Beautiful, sweet, powerful. You either have it or you don't. The moment you forget that is the moment you disappear. Have you heard of it? there's been another victim of the leather man is a ghost a monster

if you think he's playing games with you he is so towers princesses stepmothers evil monsters it's a fairy tale as indeed Nick Winding Reffen himself made clear

now here's the thing because your interview with him was really great if anyone's listening to this and they hadn't listened to the interview go back and listen to the interview because what I'd like to do in this review is respond to the points that Nick Winding Refn raised about the film. So he says this quote, in the interview, on a factual level, it's about a young girl who searches for her father. And on that journey, she creates the perfect father and then ends up being caught in her

own nightmare, her own private hell, it's a fairy tale. So back in a few years ago, I think it was 2023, and you talked about this, Nick, Winding Refin was technically, in inverted combs, dead for 23 minutes due to a leaking heart. and he talked about this experience of being medically dead. It was an operation that was going on, and that this experience reinvigorated his creative soul. He said, God killed me, but then he was saved by the Tom Cruise of Surgery, was brought back to life by electricity, very Frankenstein,

which res sparked the flame, okay? And he said, he then referred to himself in the interview as a visionary artist, and he did it slightly self-mockingly. Incidentally, there was a very good video, I sent you of William Friedkin interviewing the Winding Refin, in which he calls himself a visionary artist, and William Freakin calls for a doctor. So he said that after this near-death experience,

he came back wanting to contribute to humanity by making movies that can be a collective experience. That was exactly what he said, right? Okay. If her private hell is a collective experience, I think that experience may well be one of sleeping, or snoring, or booing. He talked about the fact that the film, when it played at Cann,

had contributed to the world because it caused uproar at Cannes, right? And he said, that's how you know you've done something right. Well, sometimes it is true that making a film that caused uproar at Cannes has done something right. Sometimes it's just because you made a film that isn't any good. He said he wanted to make a story for young people with the homogenous, young people who were disappointed with the homogenous style of modern entertainment. And yet, I don't know how you feel about this. This looks to me like a film made by an older man who was absolutely run out of ideas

and is just plagiarizing his own back catalogue and doing stuff that he's done before. He said that he wanted to make a movie that AI could never make, one that the AI algorithm would consider the enemy. A commendable goal. A commendable goal, and I agree that AI would never dream this movie up. But if this is the enemy of AI, then we are all sunk because this is not an enemy that is putting up much of a fight.

You described the film as resembling a near-death experience. and I certainly felt watching it that I was in danger of dying of boredom. You also said that it had a hallucinatory quality, which is a polite description of the film's narrative, which is just navel-gazing style over substance nonsense. This whole thing about, he said that the film's got a philosophy, and the fact that it's got a philosophy, and that's what makes it dangerous because it's got a philosophy.

And I was thinking, yeah, I love videodrome. I love videotrome, which that idea comes from, and I wish I was watching videotrome. He also said, it's no longer about good or bad. It is about your experience as a viewer. Well, I am a viewer and my experience of it was definitely bad. It was absolutely about good and bad, and it was bad. He also said, I am very conscious of time.

And when I'm asking people to give out, you know, when I ask them to give their time, well, it's 109 minutes long and I would like to ask for at least 19 of those minutes back. He said that the film, and I know he was being tongue in cheek, contributed to, to human evolution. I think it put the cause of human evolution back several years. He also then finally said towards the end, the film is an installation with moving images, to which I would say, fine, put it in an art gallery, get it out of my cinema. He said, it's an opera, a horror film, an action movie, to which I would say it's not operatic. It doesn't have horror shocks, and he's not got any entertaining action in it. He said that he loved making the film,

which makes perfect sense, because as we know, the more fun people have making a film, the less fun anyone has watching it. And the best thing about it is Pino de Néardin Danajio's music, because at least that gave me something to hang on to. Refan asked Donagio to write him an opera, which Danazio did. It's just a shame Reffin didn't make a film to go with it. It is all style, no substance. It is a load of pants. Insufferable is another word that I would use.

Your witness. Yes. I mean, it is certainly very stylish. However, in its fame, I'm looking for a reason. why it got a seven-minute standing ovation at Cannes. I know everything gets a seven-minute standing ovation at Cam. It could be that AI looks at this film and goes, shall we not bother?

I don't think. Is that the best? Okay. They're no threat. That's what I mean. When I said, it's the enemy of AI. If AI looks at this and thinks that's the enemy, there's no point wiping them out. I mean, they're just doing it.

They're just gazing at their own navels. Yeah. It was just hugely, hugely disappointing. I mean, it's a really captivating story that he tells about how he'd run out of ideas. It's going to, you know, stop. Then he, and you're absolutely right. He described, you know, the operative, his problem and the problem with the valves and the blood running the wrong way around his body and, you know, the Tom Cruise's surgery. It's very, very, very cinematic. And God brought him back from death or something. But, you know, you. But, you know, you know, the Tom Cruise's surgery, you know, it's very, very, very cinematic. It's very, very, it's very, but, you know, but, but, you would think if God brought him back from death, God would have given him a decent idea. Because God did not. You know, I'm very pleased that him, that he is well. And I'm very pleased that he.

So am I. And I like him. And I like many of his films. That's great. But I also think, I also think that he knows this is hooey. And I think that when he's saying, you know, I'm a visionary film, he knows it's hooey.

I think he's just, he's just chancing his arm. Still to come after the break. Mark will talk about the box office top 10, Heart of the Beast, Borman and the devil, and sense and sensibility. Gorgeous George McKay is our special guest. And a quick reminder that there are only a few tickets left

for our Christmas special, which this year is at the Bristol Beacon on December the 6th. So if you'd like the chance to appear in abridged versions of scrooged and die hard, live on stage, head to the ticket link in the show notes, which is HTT, Colon, forward slash, another forward slash, www. Fane dot

Fane dot co.com.uk forward slash Kermode hyphen and hyphen mayo. Are you serious? Yes. That's what you do.

Or just click on it and everything is a lot easier. Or just Google it. Hey Simon, can you believe Odysseus was lost at sea for 20 years?

Imagine it must have felt like forever. But Mark, don't you know that we'll all have to navigate the digital depths for even longer than that. And if you thought Siller and Caribdis were bad, wait till you get a look at the dark web. What do you mean longer? I've been keeping an eye on my screen time,

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Cricket doctors have launched their most ambitious fraud yet, worth over $1 billion. One doctor says, my kickback was $25,000. And the other doctor's going, well, I only got $12,000. From Sony Music Entertainment and Western Sound, this is Dr. Billions. Coming October 1st to The Binge, listen wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, let's rock with the Pop-Tastic box office top 10, starting at number 10. Vengeful, out of the momentarily? I think, actually, it's a shame that this insidious movie isn't going to be sticking around in the top 10 any longer,

because actually I think coming up every week with a new title for it, of which vengeful out of the momentarily is actually very good. It does remind me of Pond of Wood or Quantum of Sausage. That's a number 11 over there, but it's 10 over here. Number 9 here, 7 over there, Transformers, 40th anniversary event. Yeah. It's an event. But if that's the 40th anniversary, then that is the transformers that came out.

Where are we now? Go back 40 years. 86. Yeah. So it's not the Michael Baye one. It's the other one. It's the same as Graceland. So it's the Graceland anniversary this year.

So that's high. Was it? Yeah. Oh, wow. Grace is the album? Yes. Yes, yes. 40 years of that.

Bad Apples is a number eight here. Nothing over there. I mean, I think Bad Apples has got some interesting ideas. And I love Sersher Ronan. I think the problem is it doesn't push the ideas hard enough. and therefore there's a kind of credibility gap because Sertia Rohnan's character does something that would only make sense if the comedy was more outrageous

and if the comedy isn't more outrageous, the satire isn't more outrageous, you end up just thinking, I don't think that would happen, which is a shame. David, near Sheffield, says, hi guys, the film felt like two tonally different tellings of the same plot mashed together. And unfortunately, poorer for it.

Sersh Ron is excellent in the darker and more realistic version. that the tension and sadness she brings is made somewhat inconsequential by some sitcom-like scenes. Worth seeing if you like dark comedies or just for Sertia Ronan alone. Yeah, I mean, Sertia Ronan is always worth the price of admission. And like I said, the film does take a swing. I just, I think it doesn't land. That's the problem.

Number seven over here, 21 over there. Oasis, don't look back in anger. The good lady professor, her indoors, said, I was listening to the show. you really like the Oasis dog and I said yeah and she went well that's just but you don't like Oasis

and you went off to work going go watch an Oasis doc which is true I did and so it you know I did enjoy it I did like it I mean it's not a brilliant film but I did like it and I did say those songs are bangers

and so it demonstrates that your preconceptions can be changed during the course of viewing go in always with an open mind which is what I did what was surprising was that she was surprised that I went in

with an open mind because she knows me too well. It's hard, and with music, it's hard to have an open mind, isn't it? Because you know what you like and you know what you don't like. So it's testament to the film that someone who doesn't really like Oasis enjoyed the film. Yeah, and I did come out of it thinking those are solid gold bangers, those songs, which I hadn't been thinking when I went in. So yes, it did its job.

Well done. Number six is Spider-Man brand-new day. It's done fantastically well. I liked it very much. Yeah, it's good fun. Number five is The Odyssey, number four over there. So congratulations to those two films for basically propping up huge cinema box office returns,

which is, you know, it's great. I know that there is... Have we got more overflow carpark of love about these in the intake two? Or have we now run their course? I don't think there's any Odyssey, but there is certainly more conversation about these films in the Overflow Car park. Okay.

Pressures at number four. I enjoyed it. The Good Lady Professor, her indoors, and Child 2 went to see it. And the Good Lady Professor, her indoors, his verdict was, goes down nicely with a cup of tea and a biscuit misses. And Child 2's verdict was, oh, for heaven's sake. I mean, I liked it. It's a good, you know, it's exciting weather.

And I think that the performance. Yeah, the performance. It is a very old-fashioned kind of film, though, but I did like it. There was some, you know, how? many WhatsApp groups you're all in. I'm in a WhatsApp group with my brother and sister. My sister went to see it really enjoyed it. Good. I was talking about, you know, because it is marketed in some places as the untold story of D-Day. But my brother, who has written a book about D-Day, said it's literally in every book about D-Day. This story is in every single book.

It is not an untold story. Well, it was even, as I said, in my school project about D-Day back in 1976, so, you know, it wasn't that untold. Number three over here and number nine in the States, so it's a top tenor, that's Sean the Sheep, the Beast of Mossy Bottom. Matthew Jones in County, Westmeath, Ireland. Dear Bitser and Farmer, Sean the sheep has been with me for my entire life. From a close shave to his long-running TV series and excellent feature films, he's always been a source of joy. Add to that, my lifelong love of Frankenstein stories and the

universal horror canon, and I was eagerly awaiting this latest Ardman effort. As a Sunday treat, I went to see Sean's latest adventure and can report that it wasn't as good as I'd hoped. Oh. It was better. Oh, good. A stewing dialogue and exposition, it is pure cinema. Classic mad scientist and movie monster tropes are transformed into a story that's moving,

hilarious and surprisingly thoughtful. The film is packed with nods to Frankenstein, Beauty and the Beast, Evil Dead, and even a Spider-Man too. Yet, as Mark says, the references work whether you spot them or not. I don't know if you said that. I think you probably did. I did. I did, yeah.

The animation is astonishing, particularly the complexity of the wool and fur work. Blending the heart of the first film with the pace of the second, this is a first-rate family film and perhaps an instant Halloween staple. Tickety Tonkin such, now more than ever. Matthew Jones in County Westmeath. Okay, very good. And impressive to get in the top ten in America, A lot of these British films do not do that.

Yeah. No, I mean, I agree with every word of that email. And I would say that this has now created a new Halloween double bill, which is Wallace and Gromit Curse of the Wear Rabbit, and Sean the Sheep, Beast of Mossy Bottom. They are now absolute. That's a perfect double bill for Halloween. Number two here and their practical magic too.

I didn't like it. Many of our listeners did, and they went along a few. by Lady Petrol and had a very fine evening. And we had a very interesting discussion off the back of it about whether or not Code of Conduct rules apply to certain movies. And the general feeling was, listen, if you're enjoying the heck out of practical magic too,

in whichever way you want, that's fine. And number one, here and in Canada, Resident Evil, as a new entry. Tony from Toboden, Dear Nemesis and Tyrant, I just left Resident Evil in the IMA, Max, and while it's not a direct adaptation, it nails the look and feel and flow of a Resident Evil game. And the wide camera locking around the protagonist is the grammar of the modern entries in the series. However, what I'm really corresponding about is the screen experience at the moment of a, I guess this is going to be carefully worded, at the moment of a canine-caused masonry adjustment, the mind boggled.

the perfect stranger sitting next to me launched their popcorn into the air with a yelp showering us both in sweet and salty I previously assumed that this kind of thing only happened in films and we had a good in code-compliant laugh about him scaring me more than the movie all the best. Okay, it's a popcorn thrower.

That's good. And Casper Fedolini, which is an incredible name, must be a movie star. Anyway, hi there, long-time viewer of the show. I just got long-time viewer of the show. Okay. Yeah, I can't watch on you.

I just got back from Resident Evil. Tonally, the film was nothing like I expected, which works both for and against it. The jump scares are effective and the visual effects are great, yet it lacks tension. Mark's Evil Dead 2 comparison is spot on, except that the film wears its horror comedy badge rather more openly. Here I kept waiting for, in quotes,

the serious bits and was left wanting. It's very funny overall, and combined with the zombie extravaganza and a brisk runtime, it makes for an entertaining ride. The pack theatre certainly seemed to agree. Still, I wish director Zach Greger had shifted into a more tense register now and then, so the comedy could act as relief rather than just the default. The ending in particular has a few characters who feel a touch too goofy for the roles they're playing. Oh, and Brian, played by the fantastic Austin Abrams, could have done with a sidekick, if only so that 85% of the dialogue isn't him talking to himself.

It's no weapons, but it's a lot better than any of the Paul W.S. Anderson's renditions, which I think are frankly awful, Casper Fadlini. Yeah, I mean, I tend to agree. I wasn't a fan of the Anderson movies at all, and I really enjoyed this. It absolutely isn't weapons. It's a very, very, very different register. And as I said, I read an interview with Zach Gregory in which he said that after early previous screen, He had cut a lot of the jokes out because people were finding it too funny.

I still thought that it was very funny in the Evil Dead two way. I mean, I really enjoyed it. One thing I just want to clarify, there's been a couple of comments under the video, because under the video that appears on YouTube of this show, which people said, I can't believe how snobby come out still is about video games. I'm not snobby about video games. I say I don't play them because I don't.

It's a way of saying, I haven't read the book. It's not saying I haven't read the book because I have a problem with books. It's I haven't played the game. I haven't read the book. I am explaining that that is the context with which I am seeing the film. I'm not snobby about them at all. I think that they are a great and wonderful art form. They are just not a great and wonderful art form in which I am well versed.

So get over yourself. Plus also, it has to work as a film. So again, you don't like Oasis. You go to the documentary. You like Oasis. Precisely. And I really enjoy very games. You go and see this and you still like it.

More of your takes on Resident Evil in the overflow car park in take two, including a suggestion of what it's about. Search for us on Patreon to get that and this and the other, and all of it, ad-free. Speaking of which, here are Smads. Hello, it's Elizabeth Day from How to Fail here. My next guest is the pioneering British fashion designer, renowned for his signature classic with a twist aesthetic, Sir Paul Smith.

They say, oh, Paul's job, yes, head of happiness. That's my job. What a great time. I do close as well. Yeah. Listen to How to Fail wherever you get your podcasts. Some evil thing happened here. Three people die in a quiet suburb in Mississauga, Canada.

It's not a coincidence. One after the other. In the same house. Is this bad luck or something more sinister? The worst investigative mess I've ever encountered. A long simmering. what took you so fucking long to get here. From Sony Music Entertainment,

this is What Happened to the Harrisons. I'm Amy Dempsey Raven. What Happened to the Harrisons is available now on The Binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcasts to start listening today. Subscribers to the Binge can listen to all episodes, all at once, ad free. Is it George McKay time, Mark?

It is. It's always George McKaytime. so many movies in so few years. Peter Pan, Private Peaceful, How I Live Now, Sunshine on Leaf, for those in peril, pride, Captain Fantastic, true history of the Kelly Gang, still remarkable, 1917, also remarkable, Munich, the Edge of War, Fem, which he came on the show to talk about in 2023, and The Beast, also in 2023.

And now he stars in the rather famous Sense and San Francisco. You will hear my conversation with gorgeous George McKay after this clip. This house will always be home. We will find somewhere else just as nice that the money father left us. What money? No! My condolences. It was my father's dying witch.

I should persist to those girls. Why must dying people always wish for something extravagant? You hate her too. Admit it! Ugh! He's not handsome, he's not. Is he? You go.

Forgive me. I'd refer it. Eleanor That would. I like him. I greatly esteemed him. I like him. I like him. Eleanor, use those words again.

I shall leave the run. And that is a clip, as you may have realized, from sense and sensibility. George Bukai, welcome to the show. How are you? I'm really well, thanks. How are you? Very good to see. I'm okay.

Where are you? It looks like a hotel room, but you could be anywhere. I am in, yeah, I'm in the south of France, because I'm working here at the... Okay, anything that you can tell us about? Yeah, it's the, I believe so, the Ocean's Eleven prequel. Okay. No, it's great. Well, it's great to speak to you.

Sense and sensibility, I've just walked out, which I realize sounds wrong. It's, the film finished and I left, and now I'm speaking straight to you, so it's still very up there in my mind. and for the credits that you're going to start with the credits at the end George all the credits run and then it says with George Mackay and then it says and Fiona Shaw but it's with is that your first with I mean that's like a grand statement that is it is it's funny yeah my missis picked up on that yeah it is my first with which was a privilege I don't think I was aware that it was with until I saw it last week.

But no, it's great. I mean, I'm just so happy to be part of this cast in general. It feels like a really exciting bunch of actors to be telling this story. But yeah, I'll take a wither and end. So introduce us to, I mean, obviously, this has been around a couple hundred years. But, yeah, people will probably know it. But introduce us to this take on it and your version of Edward Ferris. So it's in a galaxy far, far away.

So yeah, our version, obviously, I'm sure many people would be aware of Jane Austen's book and previous incarnations. But the story for those who don't know is it's, it centers around the Dashwood Sisters, the Dashwood family, but namely the Dashwood sisters, Eleanor and Marianne, who's played by Daisy Edgar Jones and Marianne, who's played by Esme Creed Miles. one represents in her being sense and one represents sensibility. One is kind of marshals her feelings and is the sort of gravity of the family and the other one is much more kind of impulsive.

Marianne is much more impulsive and emotional than hers. And at the beginning of the film, their father has passed away and because of that, the house then passes to their brother as was the way in those days, meaning that the women of the family, because he's going to move in with his not-so-friendly new wife, they'll be kicked out, basically. And just before that happens, as the clock is ticking on that happening,

Fanny, the sister-in-law, her brother, Edward, comes to stay, who I play. And there is a spark between Edward and Eleanor, and a never-acknowledged, palpable sort of romance begins. And then the sisters and family have to leave to another cottage in Devonshire where, I mean, I can tell you the whole story, where the rest of the story sort of unfolds. And yeah, but the story is the film is, that's kind of the first third of the story. And then it kind of weaves and winds beautifully beyond that point. But for me, it's a film about balance, basically. And it's directed by Georgia Oakley. And if I've got this right, she's the reason that you wanted to do this, that you're not.

a particular Jane Austen fan, but you are a Georgia Oakley fan. Yeah, totally. Like I saw Georgia's first film Blue Gene, and I thought that was absolutely beautiful. And no pun intended, this George's sensibility as a filmmaker and the way that she told that story when I knew that it was her who was helming this. Because I think I probably had some kind of preconceptions of an Austin period retelling. And is that necessary, right? You know, I don't know.

It's not usually something that I would jump at, but when I knew that it was Georgia helming it, it became something completely different because of the beauty of that film, the tonality of how it was told. And just it made a lot of sense because of the emotions of that film, which is set in the 80s in the north of England

about a lesbian woman who is sort of, has come out and is kind of having a lesbian relationship, in a sort of quite a secret way, but not sort of completely out to her workplace and the rest of her and the other parts of her life. And the kind of all the suppressed emotion and longing that was palpable throughout that film felt so akin and relevant to the emotions of sense and sensibility. So it made kind of complete sense to me. What did she say to you she wanted from your Edward Ferris? She didn't really say, this is what I want, but she said, the first time we met, I said, should I read the book because I hadn't read the book and I hadn't seen any other versions and she went well you can you don't

need to but what I would like you to read is Mary Wollstone Crafts of Indication of the Rights of Women because that will give you a historical context of the time of the sort of the thinkings the sort of feminist thinking of the time and also I think and in doing so it made me feel that it's a book that Edward would have read you know and and a man of that time who would have read that book and felt sort of comfortable and unthreatened and championed those ideas, it then became very clear to me her take on Edward Ferris and that there was an openness. And with that openness, a confidence and an agency in him,

even though he's quite shy and cautious with his feelings and isn't sort of outwardly ambitious in a way that most sort of male heroes sort of in certain kind of romantic books would be. But there was a kind of quiet confidence and openness that came with and understand. of the understanding of the themes of that book and what Mary Wollstonecraft was saying that made it, I don't know,

that was a very clear start mark for me on her version of Edward and our version of Edward. So the book comes out in 1811, so Britain is still fighting Napoleon. The regency period has started, so George the 3rd is mad and there's a regent. The Luddites are protesting, and so that's happening.

Mary Wulsoncraft has written this book. you are deep in this story and it's fascinating the fact that you hadn't read the book and you hadn't seen any of the other movies. No, not even a television. Which would have been like a, I can see how that would have been a blessing. Have you since gone and watched the Ang Lee version, for example,

just for reference? No, I think this Christmas I will. Because I understand it to be amazing. It's like, and everyone when we said, you know, I did sensibility. And they went, oh, no. My God, the first version's amazing. It's so good.

All right. I hope we don't mess it up, you know. But no, I will. And I just didn't want to be, you know, swayed by the good bits or the bits that I wanted to change. Because actually, when I then read the book, I was quite surprised at the Edward Ferris and the book, given the Edward that I interpreted from the screenplay. Because Diana, our writer, I think she wanted to sort of draw out the love story between Edward and Eleanor and kind of have that. that longing and that yearning between them feel more palpable and more potent. Where in the book there's a sort of, he's not ambivalent, Edward, but he's sort of seriously

lacking in kind of any agency and confidence. And when I read that, I thought, oh, this is quite a different man than I think, than our version of it and than our version of him. And then it was kind of about cherry picking the bits that were useful and landing somewhere, kind of much more sided on the script, but somewhere in between. Yeah. Well, I haven't had a chance to talk to Mark about it, but my opinion of it was you absolutely didn't mess it up. I thought it was delightful. I thought it was great. You know, the Angley film is terrific, but it's 30 years ago. You know, this is a whole new generation has come up and they want their own sense and sensibility, and I think you've delivered it. And Daisy and Esme, they feel like their sisters. I know they've played sisters before in Pond Life, but you believe that they're sisters. Yeah, yeah. And I think that was one thing that, you know, Edward aside, I think that was something that Georgia was very clear.

And it is very clear with this, is it was the love of the sisterhood that needs to really be front and center of this film. Just to explain some of the, I'm trying to avoid the word process, but you and Daisy, how you got your act together, you know, how you developed that relationship. Because... Yeah, got our act together, two acts together. Didn't you write each other letters? Yes, and that sounds slightly more kind of woo-woo than, you know, that was an element of.

But in a way, it's a kind of just the fact that we did that is I think the key with days and eyes, we felt so comfortable with each other. I'd met days twice before, out and about, and was always very struck by her. Like, she's just wonderful, like, as a person, as an actress. And I think we kind of approach things similarly in terms of we like to do our homework. We feel very enthusiastic about every project that we do. And so to just be met with the person you're playing opposite, to have that same enthusiasm as you, just that we immediately felt very safe and comfortable with each other. So we ran our lines loads.

We'd run, I mean, pretty much all my scenes were with days, but I'd run scenes that I wasn't in with her. She was just about time spent. And then the letters was like, we don't actually have that much time together to establish this kind of the love before the longing. And so we just wanted to flesh out what that summer was, really. It was a whole summer and autumn. And kind of, so we just wrote a couple of letters of the time in between us to like, would you like, would you like me to escort you to the garden? Perhaps we could, you know, take a walk around the grounds together. And it is, you know, nothing too heavy, but just, it just built a bigger picture of the time that we had together before there is.

inevitable gap. Is it more difficult to play someone who is repressed and where everything is going on internally? No, I don't know. I don't know if that more difficult. No, I don't think there's ever sort of one that's easier one that sometimes you kind of wish that you just put like, just loosen up, just say it. But it is the nature of the man. And I also think, but maybe I think I'm sort of akin to Edward in a way that I don't think I'm as kind of buttoned up as him. but like you sort of, I guess, cautious, you know, with certain things,

cautious with, with big feelings. And I think Days is not necessarily, not even cautious, but just like you kind of, just measured, maybe, measured. And I think Days is sort of similar with Eleanor in that way, that it's not in any way a kind of lack of feeling. It's just an ability to kind of get on top of them. And I think when you get on top of them too much, it becomes repression. And that's probably where Edward sits a little bit.

Yeah, and you certainly bring, you both bring total commitment, and you are famous for that. And Chris Nolan talking about Matt Damon for Odyssey was talking about how Matt Damon's attitude was infectious and the way he was rippled out on set. But people talk about you in the same way, George, that your attitude on set is extraordinary and that is infectious and other people pick up on that. Do you recognize that? Is that something you're doing on purpose? I was very kind. I think, I don't know. I think enthusiasm's infectious.

And I don't think you can kind of, I think it's a bit knowing to sort of go, I'll be the sort of enthusiastic, you know, I think you know that people reverberate on one another. And so I must say, like, I was in and out a bit more with this one, but Daisy particularly, she led the line on this one so much with her attitude.

There was never a day. There was never a bad word. There was never, you know, she was never too tired for anything. So it's kind of, you know, yeah. And of course, from me coming in and out, I was totally led by that. If you ever feel a bit like, oh, you know, behind the pace or something, you just watch days and Desmond Esme and the rest of the crew who were there all day every day. And go off that.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure every film that you do leaves an imprint of some kind on you. but when you, Rose of Nevada, which as Mark has talked to great length about the Bullock's Super 16 camera, and the fact that it runs for 27 seconds and then everyone has to stop. Yes. Does that make you more accurate as an actor?

You know, if you have one take on this, get this right, or we're all going to have to wind the thing up again. Does that make a difference? A little bit. You know, it's something that George, just spoke about with this, she's wanted to, this is shot on 35mm film. And she said part of that is it's an aesthetic choice. It's a kind of tonal choice. But she says, I also do like inherently with film. There is that kind of everyone's on their toes. You hear kind of everyone ready and the

clapper ball goes on and just before you hear and it's like a kind of, you know this is your bit. There's no fluffing. And as soon as your bit's done, it stops. And I think there is an inherent, and yeah, there is an inherent, like, we're on stage now, you know, and that kind of tension, I think, is actually useful. Yeah, so it's, it does make you more accurate. You're just, you're just aware, even more acutely aware of, like, when you're on, so to speak. Of all the, this is a slightly broader question, but you've been in more than 30 films, I think. Of all the, and this will be a top of, the, the first thing that comes to your mind, I think,

of all the characters that you've played, which is the one which is close, to the real George Mackay, the one that your family would recognize. Edward, I'd say. You see, I was guessing that maybe you're a bit like Edward, but I didn't want to say. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, I think, and you know what, it was actually a pleasure. Because, again, I want, I love playing things that are very outside of myself or kind of, you know, the surface level things are very different either in their physicality

or the way they talk or where they're from. And obviously, this is a period piece. but I think the kind of fundamentals of who, at least this Edward, who I'd like to be. Because again, when I read him in the book, I thought, oh, that's not who I thought. But yeah, I'd say Edward is pretty close. And I'm pleased about that. I think the film is hugely enjoyable. I'm sure the purists will get cross about it.

George, thank you so much for giving us some time. And all the best for Oceans, 11, the prequel, whatever it is that you can't tell us. Thank you very, very much. All right, cheers, Simon. Cheers, George. Thank you very much. George McGuire talking about his role in the ensemble cast of the new version of sense and sensibility. We were in the same screening.

I had to dash off because the interview was literally like 20 minutes after the credits rolled. So I don't really know what you think. But the film had finished. I just walked out of the film. That was very funny. Yeah, it was the credit starting. Let me start by saying sense and sensibility. Certificate U.

U. U. U.S. U.S.S.S. Sex, reference, language, and on the BBFC site, threat and horror, one, language one, sex, one, nudity, one, alcohol and smoking one, theme one, violence, nil, discrimination, nil. I mean, God bless it. This is a big mainstream U certificate film. There aren't enough of those. So, George McKay, obviously in that interview,

just covered a lot of the ground. And if you haven't heard the George McI interview, do go back and listen to that, because that set so much of it up. It was interesting that the whole thing about him not having seen the Ang Lee, because the Ang Lee version, you know, Emma Thompson famously did the screenplay, and that version was so celebrated that it kind of became the version that was in everybody's minds. This is very different.

So, as George said, this is directed by George Oakley, who was BAFTA nominated for Blue Gene, which I really, really liked. And I think it's the feature debut screenplay from Diana Reed. Ensemble cast, George is. is one part of a huge ensemble cast, which includes Daisy Eager Jones, who came on our show for When the Cawadad Sing, as Eleanor, the sensible one.

Esme Creed Miles, as Marianne, the not sensible one. Capt. Gianna Balfe is their mother. Frank Delane is the clearly untrustworthy, Willoughby. Does anyone do posh and untrustworthy better than him? He's fantastic. He's very, very untrustworthy, isn't he? Herbert Nordrum, as the clearly trustworthy, and if truth be told clearly Norwegian, Colonel Brandon.

Being very Alan Rickmanish. Very, very Alan Rick. Although, you know, I wonder whether he'd seen the film. And or actually with George Mackay and actually and Fiona Shaw, who literally steals every scene she's in as this garrulous character who just laughs and drinks and takes over absolutely everything. So the story is set up at the beginning. beginning that the dashwoods are going to be evicted from their family home because the house,

because of the society they live in, is being passed to, not to her, but to a man. And so it's very clear at the beginning that there is something going on which is to do with money and with gender. You know, it's not just a romantic story. It's a story which has, you know, a social underpinning. And it was interesting that George said, actually what his director wanted him to do was to read the Wolstencraft, rather than read the Austin first, because the politics of it were very, very important. It is also, as George McKay said in that interview, it is a film about sisterhood. And the relationships between the two sisters, or there's three sisters, but it's the two central ones, is the strongest bond in the film. And it really helps that they look like sisters.

And in fact, the whole family look like a family. Didn't you think they genuinely look like they were all of a tribe? Yes, which is often not the case. And that's, That's fine, and you can live with it because different members of the family often look very different from each other. But they certainly do look like a tribe. And as I mentioned in the interview, because Daisy and Esme had both played sisters before, maybe that was, you know, they had a head start on that. Yeah, and it doesn't hurt that they are both absolutely brilliant actors. And I believed in them 100% as individual characters, chalk and cheese, opposite sides, the sensibility, but also as sisters.

I think the casting rally at Somna, who was terrific as Freddie Miles in Ripley, which we really liked, was a bold and, I think, well-made choice. And Fiona Shaw, it was every minute that she was on screen. She was just like, yes, and here is the scene that I will just carry off with me. I thought it looked wonderful. George talked about the 35mm. I was reading an article about it, which said that they used a mixture of 35 and digital through vintage panor vision lenses.

And I love that idea that once the, if you're shooting on film, everything snaps up a little bit. But it's also the way, the way that it looks, it's got this misty, earthy feel to it. I mean,

the earthiness, I suppose, is something that we saw very prominently in Joe Wright's Pride and Prejudice, which I wasn't a huge fan of, but I did like the kind of the mud on the shoes of that film. But I thought this had a,

I mean, at times, I was looking at this thinking, there's a kind of almost Barry Lindany feel to those to the visuals. It's a very visually brooding film, which is in stark contrast to the Ang Lee, because the Ang Lee is a much, as I remember, much brighter. There's hardly any sunshine.

It's very cloudy through the whole film. It is. It is very cloudy. It is Wiley Misty Moors, even though that's not, you know. And it's got a great score. It's got a great score by, and it actually says score by,

not music, my score by Roger G-O-I-N-I-R-N-I-A, who is a London-based composer who worked on everybody digs, Bill Evans, which we talked about recently, and that Oscar-nominated documentary All That Breeds. And I thought the score was great. I thought the score really got under the skin of it. Again, sort of, you know, quite passionate, quite physically resonant. I mean, it felt, I know that it works with acoustics and electronica, but I thought, I thought

that did a really good job of sort of grabbing. So, I mean, I found it engaging. I found it moving. I cried more than once. I mean, at the end, I was kind of wiping, you know. Yeah, I did. I did. I mean, that's partly due to the fact that it's a brilliant story.

It is a brilliant story. And because, hey, you know, guess what? You know whether you know this, Simon, but Jane Austen really knew how to write stories. It's a very different beast to the Ang Lee. And I did go in thinking, it's very, I mean, it's funny, you almost think that the Angley is fairly recent, then you pointed out it is 30 years ago.

And of course, it was at the beginning of Kate Winslet's career. I mean, it was one of those performances that cemented her as this kind of, you know, fantastic all-round performer. But I enjoyed this very much. I like the way it looked. I like the way it felt. I like the earthiness and I liked the thing. And I thought that the scenes between George McKay and Daisy Edgar Jones

worked really well because the thing that I really like, probably says something about me, is people not saying things to each other, people being uptight, people being... And he's right that this version leans into that unfulfilled longing. And I think that's what made the end work so well. I might complain slightly that the poster is a plot spoiler, but I think that's perfectly fine.

The other thing to say about Frank Delane, who plays Posh Willoughby, but instantly you know that he's not to be trusted. No, he's a role. He, I was just checking it. He played Tom Riddle in Harry Potter. And once you've been Voldemort, I think there's always a little part of him that is going to be.

But he's got that glimmer, hasn't it? He's got the cheeky, you know, which is like, I remember when Tom Hiddleston came on the show to talk about the Essex Serpent? He was in that as well, playing exactly. the same posh. Right. Right. Just taking too much of everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Undone. Yes. Too sloppy. Too casual. Your parents would say, don't hang out with him. Too much hair. The other one I just wanted to mention, he's well down the pecking order. But I believe his name is Turlow Convery.

But basically he's Jack Black and he plays Sir John Middleton. Oh, yeah. Every time he comes on as Fiona Shaw's brother, I think who owns this cottage. But anyway, he is jovial Jack Black. He is. And he has the best pair of St. Bernard dogs I have seen in a movie. It's my ambition is to have two St. Bernard dogs. I would love to have two St. Bernard dogs.

I would think that maybe, as they've just come over the Misty Moisty Moore, that they wouldn't be quite so impeccable. But they were, it's very dog. If you love your dogs, this is a good dog film. And do you agree with me that it looked? I love the palette of it. I loved the fact that it felt grounded in the land. Yes, and in contra, maybe it was a deliberate choice

to take it away from the Angley's sun-filled weddings and all that kind of stuff. It's grey. There's a hint of sunshine at the end as things are getting somewhat better, you know, more exciting, but essentially it's overcast and broody. One other point.

One other point. A lot of expressive dancing. And I was thinking while I was watching it, I'm imagining. that those are anachronistic dances? I'm sure they are. I'm fine. You don't think they were actually doing those.

It's the kind of dance you do if you've been to drama school and you've had acting lessons and you're pretending to be a sheep possessed by the devil or something like that. Yeah, the dancing was very, very strange. What is that you're doing? Anyway, I enjoyed it. Big thumbs up for me.

Okay, that's sense and sensibility. Thanks to George Mekindon for talking to us. Now, even though we're already feeling bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. Here we go with a rather fine laughter lift. Oh, obviously you'll be the judge of that. Mark got some bad news. Thank you.

I'm afraid my next-door neighbour got kidnapped by a rogue group of Mime artists. They did. They did unspeakable things to him. Hey! So, anyway, the police have been very busy in Showbiz, North London. Mark, they arrested a duck at the hamster. They arrested a duck. at the Hampstead Heath Ponds last week.

What for I hear, you ask? What for? He was selling quack. He's selling quack, okay. The setup was better than the punchline in that joke. And finally, you won't believe this, Mark. What a week it's been for crime in the Mayo household. The Good Lady's Sarammy sister indoors

has turned into something of a kleptomaniac. I got a call from the local constabulary at work yesterday. Hello, hello, hello. Simon Mayo, the officer said, please, can I have a word with your good lady wife? Oh, can I have a word? Yes, can I have a word with your good lady wife? She's been spotted on CCTV at the roadworks in Kentish Town

and has taken everything inside. I couldn't believe it. But when I got home, all the signs were there. Hey. Okay. Can I start on a high note and then sort of tailed off a bit after that. Still to come. What are we?

What are we? Borman and the devil and half the beast. And if you've enjoyed what you've heard, so far. You shouldn't put that straight after laughterlift. There's plenty more... Plenty more film and non-film-related stuff waiting for you over in take two,

such as one frame back, our extended viewing feature, and also questions, schmessians, in which this week were asked how you define a film that's worth seeing in the cinema? Okay. Just search Kermen-Moe Patreon and join us over there

where you can... You can... Where you can get both takes Ad-free, you can. Plus our exclusive fortnightly Extra Extra Show Take Ultra, which features Mark and I enduring the murky world of our YouTube

commenters. Commentators, commentators. I think I'm doing more of the enduring than you are, but... Yeah, that's probably right. I'm looking forward to these ads now. Good. Part of the beast is the must-see adventure of the year. It's just you and me, boy. One of the most extraordinary on-screen brunt you'll ever see.

I'll get you home. Brad Pitt. of the Beast. September 25th. Get tickets now. Okay, well, that's enough of that. Let's do a movie review, which is, after all, what you're here for, Mark, apart from enjoying all the fun. Yes, and I'm particularly enjoying all the fun of Borman and the devil. Okay, so this is a documentary by David Kittredge about the making of Exorcist to the Heretic, a documentary that I have described as the best film ever made about the worst film ever made. This has been a labour of love for the director who interviewed John Borman many years ago, and has spent the years since then amassing interviews with the key players like Louis Fletcher,

who is no longer with us, Linda Blair, and a great roster of contributors. And the film recounts the story of how John Borman, the brilliant director of point blank and deliverance, and William Goodhart, an acclaimed Broadway playwright, got together with celebrated actors Richard Burton, one of the greatest theft of his generation, Louise Fletcher, who was Oscar for One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Max von Siddow, star of the Seventh Seal and, of course, original Exorcist, and James Earl Jones, voice of a generation, to spend the biggest budget that Warner's had ever earmarked for a film to make a sequel to one of the most successful films of all time

and somehow managed to make a movie that in the Golden Turkey Awards came second only to Plan 9 from Outer Space as the worst film ever made. And incidentally, it was Rob because it is the worst film ever made. Never before in the field of cinematic endeavour have so many, with so much, delighted so few. Here is a clip from the trailer. It's a sort of spell is cast over people to make movies. In 1975, Academy Award nominated director John Borman was offered the opportunity of a lifetime to direct a sequel to the blockbuster film The Exorcist. Borman's follow-up was enormously ambitious and had the biggest budget in Warner Brothers history,

and on June 17, 1977, Exorcist 2, The Heretic, opened to sold out theaters across the country. It was one of the biggest disasters in Hollywood history. David Lean said to me once, he said, John, you know, we all make a failures. Try not to make a famous one. And this became one of the most famous failures of all time. I mean, God bless John Borman for saying that about his own film. So the brilliant thing about the documentary is that even now, Many of the people involved in the film don't appear to have any idea of why it all went so badly.

Least of all, John Borman. The short version is, after the success of Exorcist, Warner's wanted a quick cash-in sequel, and they thought, I know, we'll get the detective to go investigating the case and we'll use outtakes. Then, of course, Lee J. Cobb, who played Kinderman, died. Blattie wasn't interested in writing something, and also, as he told me, that he wasn't asked. Ellen Burstyn didn't want to come back. Jason Miller and Maxwell and Sidda's characters were both dead. Lee J Cobb now wasn't there.

So they decided to solve the problem by, first, let's bring Von Siddale back from the dead in flashbacks. Let's get an A-list director who really didn't like The Exorcist the first time round. In fact, said that when he was offered it to direct, said, not only do I not want to make this movie, I don't want anyone else to make it either. Cooking up a half-witted metaphysical thriller in which Richard Burton flies to Africa on the back of a locust, James Earl Jones spits an African plum onto a spike weight whilst dressed as a locust and Linda Blair puts a flashing warpman-like thing on her head

that enables Burton's father Lamont to enter her dreams before she turns into a sexy split personality in a nightie whose house in Georgetown falls down and falls into a hole after being attacked by guess what? Locusts. And none of the things that I've just said don't happen in that. They all happen in the film. What's Richard Burton doing on a locust?

And there we are. That should have been literally production meeting number one. Sorry what. Now, the context for it is this. After Borman made deliverance, okay, he had been, he got amazing reviews. He was told he was visionary, which he is. He made Zardos. Zardos is a film which manages to be boring despite starring Sean Connery

in a red leather jockstruck. But the point was he said about this, that this was the chance to make something visionary and enriching a film, pardon me, I'm knocking my things up because I'm waving my hands around, to make something inspired by Tejad de Chadan's hive mind, world mind thing,

a chance to make a metaphysical thriller that would undo all the bad things that the Exorcist had done. So, full hardy at the beginning. Actually, if you want the metaphysical thriller, Blatti was off doing that with the ninth configuration, which incidentally wanted... Sorry, just on a pause there.

What is a metaphysical thriller? It is about the concept, well, this in the particular case, is about the concept of a hive mind. So in the original film, right, the whole point about the original film, it's not about the girl. In fact, they actually say that explicitly. It's not about the girl. It's about the girl. In this, it's like, oh, no, no, it is about the girl.

It's all about the girl because the girl is actually part of a breaking out hive mind phenomenon. She is part of a super good future race who will help join everybody together in the world through a hive sort of telekinetic spirituality. that will then draw upon it the demonic figure of Pazuzzo, who is not mentioned in the original film, although it's in, I mean, it's, it's nonsense. It's absolute gibberish. And it's just absolute complete clap trap. And the astonishing thing is that the whole thing with the first exorcist

is he's really grounded in reality. It's scary because it looks like it might be happening. This has got its heads so far up its backside. It is laugh out loud, funny. It is full of people talking. about hive minds and locusts and saying, is there no hope? After the brushing of the wings, is there no hope? My wings have been brushed and going on about the good locust. And Blattie hated it because it trashed the original. Freed king called it the product of a demented mind.

The makers in the documentary do keep insisting that it would have been received so much better if people hadn't kept connecting it to the exorcist. To which the answer is, it wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the exorcist. I mean, it wasn't like Warner Brothers were sitting around thinking, oh, you know, we've got $8 million, which we'd really love to give to the director of Zardos to make a film in which Richard Burton flies to Africa on the back of a locust, and Linda Blair's house falls into a big hole after being attacked by locusts. And if I have one criticism of the doc, it's that it does allow people to say that. But the reason the dot works, and this is the genius of it, is that David Kittridge is a brilliant storyteller. I mean, every sequence in this documentary

is really, really well put together. It's like triple layers within triple layers. It's really informative. It's got brilliant animation that helps tell the story. It's not just talking heads. But most importantly, it could only have been made by somebody who on some level actually did admire the swing of Exorcist II. I couldn't have made this film because I just think Exorcist II is the worst film ever made. But I am really glad that this documentary has been made by somebody who doesn't think that, by somebody who thinks it so nearly could have been brilliant. And then it all went wrong. And so I completely disagree with the

director about the value or otherwise of the film. Incidentally, I want to be clear about this, John Boulman is a brilliant visionary director and has made brilliant visionary films and hats off to him for sitting down to do a long interview in which he talks about a film that really damaged his career quite badly. But I think that it's really important that this doc

is made by somebody who at least accepts the possibility that this could be good. It isn't. It is the best film ever made about the worst film ever made and I loved it. Is it a documentary that is cinematic, Mark? I thought so.

Yeah, I absolutely thought it was. Not least because it's got some clips from the heretic, which you have to see on the big stream, but also because the animations are done really well. I mean, I saw it in a cinema, and I think it absolutely is cinematic. Okay, let's bring you some movie news and some movie adjacent news. This is our much-aclaimed What's-on feature.

You can send us audio stuff. You can send us videos. We've got a video here from Linda Marrick. I'd love to recommend a really exciting screening that's coming up at part of DZ Fest, the Algerian Cultural Festival in London. The film is called Algiers, and it's a gripping mystery thriller screening at Cine Lumil on Sunday 27th of September. The film centres on the abduction of a young girl and the investigation that follows. The film explores memory, trauma, and some of the unresolved tensions of Algerians' past.

and afterwards I'll be chatting to writer-director Shaky Pahlab, Ben Diab. Please do come join us if you can and if there are some tickets left. Thank you. Yes, thanks for the video, Linda. Send us your videos to the usual address. Did you admire her spectacles there?

I did. I mean, I admire Linda's spectacles in real life because I see her at screening. She's a terrific critic and she's a really smart person and that does sound like a really terrific screening. Correspondence at coveno-mo.com is where you send your videos and your audio clips and your general correspondence. What else is out?

Heart of the Beast. This is the latest from David Ayer, the respected director whose CV includes end of watch and fury, and more recently the beekeeper and working man with stath. This is based on a script by Cameron Alexander that featured on the black list, seems to happen every week now, almost a decade ago. Brad Pitt, for it is he,

is retired Army Special Forces veteran James Belmont. He is haunted by visions of a mission which wiped out his entire unit. The only survivors being him and his combat dog, military dog, Odin. Now he and the dog go flying in the mountains, not unlike Jacob Alodi's character in the dog starts, who goes off flying with his dog, getting away from everything, until whilst mid-air, James has a seizure, a heart attack, it appears to be, going over Alaska and drops the plane into a lake, out of which they just managed to escape,

and then they are 58 miles of hostile terrain away from the nearest road. And between them are all manner of obstacles, you know, treacherous waters, precipitous log bridges, bears, ravenous packs of wild wolves, all of which they must get through together using their survival skills, because that's the thing that they have. Here is a clip from the trailer. You are the first person I've ever seen this far out. What kind of line of work are you in, James?

Army Special Forces is retired. Hey, did I notice some silver in your dog's mouth? Oden was a combat scouting dog. Target hit him in the mouth with a brick. St. St. Cole get his leg? Yeah. I hope you gave that fellow a piece of your mind. I shot him in the head.

Damn. This region here is the heart of the beast. Most folks learn that to harden. way. So, James and Odin will need all their survival skills to get through this one, and they are in many ways mirror images. They're both highly trained, highly battle-scarred operatives with issues. Odin lost his leg in the war.

Brad Pitt's arm is injured, so they've both got an injured limb. They both have PTSD flashbacks. the dog wakes up in the middle of the night, dreaming of the terrible thing that happened, as does Brad Pitt, as the tagline says, survival depends on their bonds. Now, there are precedence for this kind of man and dog bonding movie. There's the Japanese movie, Achiko Monagetari, which told the true story of the Akita dog, Hachiko, which we talked about because it was remade in 2009 with Richard Gere as Hatchie, a dog's tale.

Much closer to this is that film Dog with Channing Tatum, which Channing Tatum co-directed, and he starred in as an army, Ranger with PTSD, taking a combat dog with aggression issues to be euthanized, but during the course of the journey, they bond. Now this. So Brad Pitt and a military dog, both with PTSD, surviving in a hostile world. And the thing is, if you're going to make a movie, you know, man and then, you know, beast, the only way it can work is if you've got a lead performance, because obviously it can be

largely non-verbal. So what you need is somebody who. who, you know, who is a star, who is very physical, who can express complex emotions without saying a word, you know, through physicality, who you believe doing the action also has got fragility, you know, those big eyes that seem to sort of draw you in, you know, proper movie star power with depth and fragility. And this film has definitely got that.

It's also got Brad Pitt, who is almost as good as the dog. and I'm now going to give you a space to laugh at that joke, which it took me a long time to set up. Thank you very much. Yeah. I was terrified you were going to jump in and spoil it. The thing is, I think Brad Pitt is coasting a little bit in this, because the role isn't really that complicated from his point of view.

I mean, he's one of the films producers, and it does feel a bit like a vanity project designed to say, look, I may be 62, but I can still fly a plane, make a fire, fish, hunt, splinter, you know, a broken arm, and bond with the dog. Also, getting an exec producer's credit is Damien Chazelle. And that voice you heard in the clip was J.K. Simmons, who appears to have wandered in from a different film

just to do a little bit of talking before the plane goes down and then it's Brad talking to the dog or talking to himself. I mean, it's a strangely pointless interlude. But, hey, it's J.K. Simmons. As for the direction, look, the director knows how to do action. the film, it's 12A for moderate violence, but there's plenty of wintzing. There's plenty of stuff that I had to hide my face from. There's some well-mounted individual set pieces.

The plane crash is done well. There's the bit when they've got to go on the bridge across the ravine. That's done well. It's all individually well done, but it doesn't add up to anything. The thing that does surprise me is that the script was on the black list, not because it's not very dialogue-heavy, because, you know, obviously you can have scripts that are brilliant that aren't dialogue-heavy, but just because it just doesn't really have much that's original.

I mean, the flashbacks to combat are very, very pat. They're very cliched. I can't imagine that the film is going to have much traction. I mean, congratulations to, I think it was four dogs that played Odin. I mean, it's definitely their film. But they are the best thing about the film. And Brad is definitely second banana. Do you think it would be, you know, did it need a Leonardo?

would he have been better? Because he can do those. Well, he gets to fight the bear in Revenant, doesn't it? It's not Brad Pitt's fault. It's that the material is kind of thin. He's a combat-scarred battle veteran who can only get through this if he gets on well with his dog. Right, okay.

That's it. Okay. Heart of the Beast. I know all the ads say only in cinemas. It sounds from the way you're describing, it'll be on screening fairly. soon. I mean, it's, yeah, it is what it is. Is it a widescreener? Is it something that you should see in the cinema?

I'm not sure it's something you should see. Okay. Okay, don't even bother. Well, that's it for this week. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Dom, Eric, Josh and Heather, the redactor Simon Paul in take two. We're directing you to the overflow car park for more chat about current film releases, giving you some film viewing suggestions related to one of this week's new releases, which is sense and sensibility.

So we're doing best Jane Austen adaptations, TV or film. And don't forget, Avon Ladies and Avon Gentlemen, we will be at the Beacon in Bristol on December 6th for our Christmas special. Tickets are on sale via the link in our show notes. You can enjoy festive Bristol's Christmas market in the day, then head on over to the beacon for Christmas nonsense with me and him in the evening, because it's an evening show. You'll really enjoy it.

Very good. Well done. No. Mark, what is your film of the week? Borman and the devil. Jure on the floor. And we're back next week.