Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Domnhall Gleeson on Echo Valley

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

Vanguardistas have more fun—so if you don’t already subscribe to the podcast, join the Vanguard today via Apple Podcasts or extratakes.com for non-fruit-related devices. In return you’ll get a whole extra Take 2 alongside Take 1 every week, with bonus reviews, more viewing recommendations from the Good Doctors and whole bonus episodes just for you. And if you’re already a Vanguardista, we salute you. Our guest this week is the prounciationally challenging but very lovely Domnhall Gleeson, who sits down with Simon to talk about his new Apple TV+ thriller ‘Echo Valley’. In it, he plays the sinister dealer Jackie to Sydney Sweeney’s addict Claire—no more nice Domnhall. He and Simon talk accents, improv, and looking like a psychopathic Ronan Keating—don't miss it. Mark reviews ‘Echo Valley’, along with two more of the biggest big-screen releases this week. First up, ‘Tornado’, a Scottish Samurai tale starring Jack Lowden and Tim Roth as criminal heavies, and Kôki as the titular Tornado they are chasing down. Plus, ‘How to Train Your Dragon’: Mark delivers his verdict the live action (except for the dragon) remake starring Nick Frost, Gerard Butler and more. Some more excellent Jason Isaacs content too, and an iWttr mystery solved... Timecodes (for Vanguardistas listening ad-free): Tornado Review: 10:24 Box Office Top Ten: 16:46 Domhnall Gleeson Interview: 26:53 Echo Valley Review: 43:21 How To Train Your Dragon Review: 52:50 You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo Please take our survey and help shape the future of our show: https://www.kermodeandmayo.com/survey EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] And to find out more about Sony’s new show Origins with Cush Jumbo, click here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Oh hey, this is Simon. This is Mark. I'll give you a pretty penny, Mark, if you can name any film festivals that are on the horizon in June. Transylvania Film Festival, Film on Film with the BFI, Tribeca, that's three pretty pennies, you know me? An esteemed critic like yourself cannot be in all those places at once, but you can get pretty darn close to it with NordVPN. Saving on travel and jet lag to unlock the best films from around the world sounds pretty good. But it's not only that, Mark. No, you can log on to public Wi-Fi anonymously, leaving no

way for hackers to get your data even when you're streaming. And even better, you can get it across multiple devices. So whatever you're using to stream the best of this year's new films from around the world, you're covered and you are protected. With NordVPN, you can travel the world faster than a private jet, minus the carbon footprint. Unwrap a huge discount on NordVPN by heading to nordvpn.com slash take. Plus, with our link you'll get an extra four months free on the two-year plan. And it's risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee. Check the link in the description. Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguard Easter and get an extra

episode every Thursday. Including bonus reviews, extra viewing suggestions, viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas. Plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in Questions Shmeshtians. You can get all that extra stuff via Apple podcasts or head to ExtraTakes.com for non-fruit related devices. There's never been a better time to become a Vanguard Easter free offer now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter, we salute you.

Before we actually start this recording, what have you achieved? This morning? Yes. Well, I'm here. I've got everything together and it's quite early. Why? What am I meant to have achieved? No, no, no. I'm sure that that's absolutely fine.

I'm just comparing it with my morning. Oh, I see. So let me ask you, Simon, what have you achieved? I've had three rounds of hide and seek. I've made lots of things with Play-Doh, including an orange, a screwdriver and a house. Are the grandkids in? They are.

So normally my prep time, which is sort of like six o'clock from 6 AM on a Wednesday morning was actually doing that. So when was the last time you played hide and seek? It's fantastic fun. No, I haven't played hide and seek in a really long time. Because the problem is, it's quite hard when you're the larger gentleman to find anywhere that you can hide at all. But that's the thing. If you play hide and seek with a two slash three year old, they're at that stage where they think if they can't see you, then they're hidden. So it really, really doesn't matter. So you could hide in full view and not have a clue. Well, I'm glad you managed to do that. I, on the other hand, and you haven't asked me this,

have risen to the challenge that you gave me last week. How have you risen to the challenge that you gave me last week. How have you risen to the challenge that you gave me last week, Mark? Because you chose as the encore for the Gang of Three gig that's coming up, you said the best song of 79, one of the best songs of 79 was We Don't Talk Anymore. And I said, okay, in that case, that's what we're going to do when we do the gig, we'll do that. And then as like when the next day when the podcast dropped, I got a message from Simon, who's one third of the

Gang of Three saying, I can't believe you've agreed to do this. This is absolutely catastrophic. And I said, no, no, no, no, I've sorted it out. I have arranged, we don't talk anymore. It's so funny. We don't talk anymore in a Gang of Four styley. And have to tell you it is an absolute banger. There you go. So you see, good, okay, well that's, and how different is it from the Cliff original? I think the word unrecognizable might be useful except for the fact that it is recognizable. It's angular and aggressive and it's quite short as well. It comes in at under two minutes. But funny enough when I did it, I actually thought at the end of it, you know they missed a trick not doing this because this actually sounds really,

really good. Are you going to come? If it's under two minutes, can I just say it's under two minutes, you're making it sound like a Ramones track, in which case you're going to have to start it by going one, two, three, four, and then go into dee dee dee dee. Yeah. The rearranged version of that main riff is, well, let's just say it has many sharp edges now. Later on in this podcast, we'll actually get down to some business and Mark is going to be reviewing these items. Tornado, which is a Scottish Western, more of which later on, Scottish Samurai film,

How to Train Your Dragon, the live action version, although obviously the dragon is not live action, and Echo Valley with our very special guest. Donal Gleeson, Abdominal Gleeson, himself from that movie. He's going to be talking to us. He hasn't been in the studio, I think, for quite a while. But anyway, bonus films in our Vanguardista section include. Well, once again, this is a kind of, if you haven't signed up, you're not a Vanguardista yet, you need to now because there are two really interesting

films to be reviewed in take two, which you will only hear if you are a Vanguardista, a protein, which is a very, very strange movie that played at Fright Fest, and then Lollipop, which is a really terrific social drama, which I absolutely love. As I said, you do have to get take two this week because it's as with Ballad of Wallace Island, there's another case in which one of the best films of the week is reviewed in take two. I should just say, because I forgot to mention it, the reason I'm mentioning the arrival

of the Danes in the house is that if there is lots of banging and crashing or screaming, then it's coming from my end, as it were, and not your end. Well, you say that, although this morning when I woke up, there's somebody unloading a scaffold immediately outside the window here, so it might be my end as well. Well, clattering aside, a lot of extra stuff you'll get if you're a Vanguard Easter as well. Anyway, the take two arrives at the same time as take one. All the back catalog of Bonus Joy is available for a very reasonable amount. We have an email here from Steve Farrager.

It could be Farraher, but I'm going to go with Farrager. As a long time listener and three time emailer, Jason came up on Liverpool Community Radio last Friday as it was his birthday. He's from Liverpool so have a listen. Say hello to Jason Isaacs. There's only a few people out there who understand what I'm saying now but say hello to Jason Isaacs. There you go. Hello to Jason Isaacs. Say hello to Jason Isaacs. Say hello to Jason Isaacs. Hello Jason Isaacs. There you go. That's a running joke in their programme.

Oh is it? Okay. Yeah. So Jason Isaacs has got to be 64. Okay. 70. He's 62 actually. So basically I would say Liverpool Community Radio, if you just look things up you can find out the answer quite quickly. They thought he was 70. That's terrible isn't it? Because he looks great. I mean, you have to say, he keeps himself in fine fettle. And for someone to just think 70. Maybe they're going off of the poster for the salt path in which obviously he looks grey, well white actually, isn't he? So maybe that's that. But no, if you saw him at the height of his powers, like he was when he was down here the other week, he looks like

he's in his 50s. He's the same age as me. I think he's 61. Is he actually 62? I think it was 62. Well, early 60s. He's not 70 for heaven's sake. And I think he looks, even when he's very ill in Saltpath, he still looks like a movie star. Yeah, he does. We were doing lots of 20th, 20 year anniversary stuff last week. In the conversations that we've had, particularly with the iwitter.com thing working again,

we've wondered what happened to our listener that we had briefly in North Korea. Do you remember that? Yes, I do. It was just the one and then they disappeared from the iWitter app. We have an email here which is signed, name redacted. Mark and Simon, congratulations on your 20th anniversary. If this isn't too late to join the party. A memory stirred by recent podcast prompted me to write. Could I offer a possible solution to a long-standing mystery that came up again recently? Who was the dear listener, capital D, capital L in North Korea?

Well, I wonder if it might have been me. In 2015, I spent a week in the DPRK, which I did check, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. It's always worth noting that if a country has democratic in its title, it almost certainly means they despise everything that democracy has to offer. Anyway, so there I was in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, and I had with me a library of downloaded episodes from the earlier incarnation of the show, which I listened to extensively. I did indeed have the IWITA app installed, but theoretically no internet connection and the entire country sits behind

a massive firewall. So how could it have been me? My only theory is this. The original iWitter app was so massively powerful and over-engineered in its pursuit of delivering you vast wealth that it somehow punched through and checked in. In any case, thank you for your company during one of the most bizarre weeks of my life and on many, many other occasions in many other countries ever since the early days of the pod." So Tickety Tonkin and all that jazz says name-redacted, which suggests to me that this must be a spy, don't you think? Traveled a lot around the world, finds herself or himself in North Korea. I think this is

very, very suspicious work, I think. But anyway, that would account for one listener. Yeah, that would. But also, that's quite encouraging because we thought that something deeply sinister had happened, didn't we? Yeah, although having said that, that could be from someone from the North Korean Secret Service Police Department. Do you think? Could be, just to make us feel, make us rest easy.

Are they the same people that keep sending me spam about incontinence pants? Almost certainly right, yes. Are you sure it's spam? Because sometimes if you've looked that up on the internet, maybe you're just getting them anyway. Because you're the same age as Jason, which as we know is 70. I think that may well be moving into your orbit. Maybe Jason and I could do an advert for them. That would be great. You're looking very bulky today. Bulky but relaxed. Yes, this is very good. Someone wants to send in a little, a 30 second radio script. We could get that sorted.

If you send in a 30 second radio script, I will send it to Jason. I'll get him to record his half and we can put together an advert for Mark and Jason, record an advert for... I'll keep it relaxed in continent's pants. It's a entertainment special offer. Okay. So correspondence at cobenmayor.com. That's where you get in touch. Let's do a movie. Yes, let's. So Tornado, which you would have seen posters for, which is the latest from Scottish writer-director John McLean, who made that brilliantly odd sort of western, slow west.

So, the trailer, I mentioned this before, there's a splash quote on the trailer and indeed on the poster from James Boy King, which says, the Scottish samurai movie, you never knew you needed. I saw James in a screening the day after I'd seen this. And I said, oh, I see you're all over the trailer for that thing. And he went, what do they, what quote do they use? I said, they use the thing about the Scottish Samurai movie, you never knew you needed.

And he went, oh, they used that, but that was just a throwaway remark. And then he was sort of, he was like kind of bashful about it. They did. And honestly, my feeling is considering how hard it is to describe Tornado, actually that quote, which James was sort of slightly, you know, offy about,

perfectly describes the film. Here is a clip from the trailer. Don't move. If you run, I'll catch you. We have to leave. They'll come and kill us. Tornado, listen to your father. Defenses attack. How'd you get this?

You got my goal? No. I don't know want to fight you. Story is, Tim Roth is Sugar Man, although not sweet at all. Tim Roth? Wow. Tim Roth? Did you, you heard him in the trailer, were you trying to recognise him from the voice? Yeah, I didn't realise it was Tim Roth.

Tim Roth, Tim Roth. So he's Sugar Man, not sweet at all. We meet him in pursuit of the titular Tornado, the young woman who is played by rising more very risen Japanese superstar Koki, who we gradually learn he believes to be in possession of his gold. That's the thing about you, you've got my gold. He travels with a disreputable band of brigands, including Little Sugar, played by Jack Loudon. As for Tornado, she is traveling with her father, played by Takahiro Hira, with whom she has been putting on these puppet shows, samurai puppet shows, which are really complex and involve the puppets having severed limbs and stage blood all over the place. So the ingredients basically are, windswept often barren landscape,

a kind of Fellini-esque traveling circus backdrop, puppet show performances replete with blood, search and kill narrative, a sort of gold heist plot driving it all underneath, lots of Japanese philosophy, lots of homegrown brutality, lots of otherworldly eeriness, the latter of which is greatly enhanced by Robbie Ryan's cinematography and then music by Jed Curzell. So you can see why when James said that thing about the Scottish semi-right movie, You Never

Knew You Wanted, they jumped on it because it's like, actually, yes, because the thing that I've just said is not going to go on the poster. I'm a really big fan of this filmmaker's work. I mean, I loved Slow West, but what I really like is the way that he takes genre elements and then transposes them into settings in which you wouldn't expect them, and whether it's making them down to earth

or very naturalistic. And one of the things that he does as well is he's got a really interesting use of music, the way in which the drama plays out with the music kind of acting as a, almost like a Greek chorus. In this, Tim Roth, Tim Roth, who you heard in the clip there, is brilliantly, Tim Roth is brilliantly underplayed.

And the best thing about it is, it's basically, you know, it's a search and kill, as I said, but he's like a dead man walking. They don't sort of, you know, fly across the landscape in pursuit. They trudge across the landscape. Tim Roth looks all the way through like he's already at the end of everything. He trudges from one place to the next, casually killing people even as he walks past them. There's

something really good about how much he underplayed it. I interviewed the director, and he said that apparently when they were trying to get Tim Roth to do it, the agent was saying, well, you know, you need to give this character a bit more to say because you want to make the role a bit more appealing. And apparently Tim Roth took one look at it and said, no, you need to take all the dialogue out. The dialogue is not what I want to be doing. What I want to be doing is the physical stuff.

And that performance is really terrific because it is world weary and dyspeptic and it's full of this misanthropic malaise that he does really well. By contrast, the central young woman tornado is this whirlwind. Her character reminded me a little bit of, do you remember Saoirse Ronan in Hanna, the Joe Wright film? I actually think it's Joe Wright's best film, which constantly on the move, constantly alert, constantly scoping everything out. And there's this really entertaining culture clash at the heart of the drama. So as I said, on the one hand,

you've got the samurai elements, you've got the landscape, you have again got this kind of almost Western backdrop to it. But it means you're taking elements that you're familiar with and giving them a new kind of spark. And the thing that's really good is it's very good at wrong footing the audience, not least because the timeframe isn't linear, it shifts around. And the story sort of reveals itself gradually and you have to engage with it. You have to actually, it's a film that kind of meets you halfway. Anyway, I really enjoyed it. I really hope people see it.

And I say this genuinely because I have a great affection for James King, as we both do. I know that we sort of joke about James Boykin. I mean, ridiculous. I mean, he must be 70, but he still looks like he's 22. But that quote of his about it being the Scottish Sam Uri movie, You Didn't Know You Needed, is actually completely bang on. And we are now 11 years on from Tim Roth's memorable performance as Seth Blatter in the FIFA produced film United Passions. Do you remember? Yes.

Which came out just before Seth Blatter was exposed as maybe not being the most morally upright person. And I remember that there's a line in that in which Tim Roth's Seth Blatter has to say, look, none of us are in this for the money. Yeah. 90% funded by FIFA stars Tim Roth, Gerard Depardieu, that other highly thoughter, but also Sam Neill. Well, I think they were all just doing it for the dough. I don't think any of them looked at it and thought.

I think that's absolutely right. Correspondence at covenomoe.com. Box Office Top 10 at 13, dangerous animals. Someone called The Spirit Returns via our YouTube channel, entertaining twists, but Mark is right, it was horrible for the sake of it. And you may need a bridge to suspend your disbelief. They could easily have cut 20 minutes too. It also felt quite baggy. So you said that this is vicious, but you often like that kind of thing, but you thought it was a bit too nasty. Well, I mean, what I said, and I was trying to, it's very hard to kind of get the balance right when you're reviewing a film like this, but it is nasty. The reason I kept saying nasty is because it is really nasty. It's got a really cruel streak to it. I do know at least one critic, a friend of mine,

who kind of just disengaged from the film because of that cruel streak. On the other hand, I thought it was done well. I understand the bagginess thing, but I don't think it could lose that much. I just think there is something very wholesome about Jaws. There is something very wholesome about Jaws because those characters in the end, you get to know them and you get to love them even quaint. In the case of this, wholesome is not what it is. It's a cruel and there's a touch of torture porn about it. Mason- That's number 13. Worth just mentioning, waving a flag for the Ballad of Wallace Island, which is at number 11. Sorry about that, sorry about that, I just bashed my desk. So is that a good performance do you think? I mean, it's got talked about quite a bit, but it's not troubling the 10. No, but I imagine it's playing in a limited

number of cinemas. I don't have the cinema screens details in front of me. And also it's a really, really low budget film. And I suspect it's one of those things that will continue to play in cinemas for quite a while. There has been a huge amount of press about it, not least because Richard Curtis said this thing about it being the funniest film he'd seen in ages and he absolutely loved it. Again, to refer back to the James King thing, every now and then somebody praising a movie in just the right way is the thing that it needs to elevate its profile. It was never going to set the world on fire in terms of box office, but I think my suspicion is

that it's playing in smaller cinemas and in those cinemas that it is playing, it is doing quite well. That's my suspicion. Thug life is at number 10. There's a number of movies currently playing that weren't press screen. This is an Indian Tamil language gangster action drama, which wasn't press screen. So if anyone's seen it, let me know. Nine is The Phoenician Scheme. I, again, am aware that there are some people who really like this. Ben Bailey Smith thought it was really funny. I got annoyed with the title and then kind of went downhill from there. But there are some good performances in it. It's just so hermetically sealed in the Wes Anderson universe, and I found it impenetrable,

but others have found it funny. Number eight is Clown in a Cornfield. Nigel Betts on our YouTube channel. No word of a lie, a local farmer where I live used a Ronald McDonald that used to stand outside one of their restaurants as a scarecrow. Which is, uh, I guess that that would be pretty effective. Uh, Nick says, uh, well, you did this to me and now I'm doing it back to you. From now on, you'll be infected by the earworm. There's a clown in my cornfield to the tune of rat in my kitchen by UB 40. But actually what I said, what am I going to do? Exactly.

But the other thing that clown in cornfield made me think of is you've probably seen via YouTube, is it John Mulvaney, the comedian who does that whole sequence about there's a horse in the hospital? No. Anyway, but Clown in a Clownfield. No, Clown in a Cornfield. Did I do that? I think I did that last week, didn't I? It's one of those titles that, you know, it's easy to get wrong. It's goofy fun. There is a whole thing at the end of it in which they fudge what happens to one character.

And I've now had two quite in-depth conversations with a friend of mine called Matthew and with the great Kim Newman, who is the arbiter on all things horror. And I said to him, Kim, what do you think happens to that character at the end? He said, I think what happened is they didn't have the actor for another day in order to do the shot that they needed to do. So when you see the thing, he said, you do see the thing happen, but it happens so incidentally

that you don't notice it. So in a way, part of me kind of thinks, well, low budget movies made around the constraints of what availability they have, good for them. I mean, it's never scary, but it's very genial, very, very differently to dangerous animals. Low budget movies made around the constraints of what availability they have, good for them. It's never scary, but it's very genial, very, very differently to dangerous animals. It's kind of goofy fun. It's a little bit like one of those pastiche slasher movies that you used to get in the

90s, referring back to the 80s ones, and I quite enjoyed it. Number seven is Pepper meets the baby cinema experience. Yes. So this isn't, as we would think of it, because actually a film this is, and I'm just gonna read you the press release because obviously I haven't seen the show. It is 10 oink-tastic new episodes,

six brand new songs and music videos. Your little ones can dance and sing along with Peppa and her family and friend. And of course, as we've said before, if this is a way of getting young viewers into the cinema and use the cinema experience, then more power to it. Number six, number five in Canada, Final Destination's bloodlines. Which I like the way you did that. You're going to get a job as a voiceover for the ever. You can voice the incontinent's pants adverts. It is one of the better, if not the

best of the Final Destination series, which just goes to show that even late on in a series, they can still pull it out of the bag. Number five here, number four in Canada, Karate Kid Legends. Once again, how nice to be able to say that the film is entirely good hearted and entirely genial. I mean, I know it's all absolutely by numbers filmmaking, but I really enjoyed it. As I said when I reviewed it, I arrived at the screening in an absolutely foul mood because my train had been delayed by two and a half hours. Uh, the salt path starring an incredibly ancient, uh, salt path is it number four.

Doing well. I mean, good for it. It's yeah. Yeah. It's, I mean, obviously down here, I'm in Cornwall, the, the, the screenings here have been packed out as my local cinema, the Newlin Film House, said, yeah, it was outselling Barbie in terms of its pre-sales. So I think Jason and Gillian Anderson do really well. The story is incredibly life-affirming and having now met the author,

Ray Ann Moth, who came down to the Q&A that Jason did. It just makes it all the more pertinent. Yeah, very good performances and a very, very life-affirming story. It's easy to see why, again, particularly now, why that film is touching a nerve. Number three from the world of John Wick, Ballerina. I like Anna de Armas. I like fighty stuff. I like Kinano, although he's only in it for a very, very brief period of time. The film does look like an absolute wreck, but apparently at least half of it, if not more so, has been reshot. Although good, because at least the reshoots are decent. I mean, it's not up there with the, certainly not with the most recent John

Wick outings, but you know, you get exactly what you pay for. It's that movie. It's, Anna de Almas does all the sort of fighty-fighty stuff. There is a very good set piece that involves a flamethrower and a hose. The narrative of the film is completely daft, but it's a John Wick movie. And Death by Ice Skates, although I've had a couple of people got in touch with me and said that Death by Ice Skates, that's not new. That's been done many times before. Mason- Maria says, just went to see Ballerina, which was great fun, thanks to a group of girls who sat next to me. They were living it, I suppose. I could be loving it, but they were

just living it. Unfortunately, it was also ruined by a group of guys that possibly sat down in the wrong seats. And when two other guys came in saying they had those seats, they refused to get up and said, shut up and sit down. This exchange made me miss the first two minutes of the film. Can you please remind everyone what the rules are in this case? I don't think we've established the, I mean, sit in your own seat really, and don't be a dick.

But anyway, uh, what happened in the first two minutes? By the time we get to minute three, have we missed like 30 deaths? The point with any of the John Wick series, you could go out for a comfort break and half the cast could have been killed. It's just the way it is. More annoying is the thing about if you've got an allocated seat and you turn up and somebody's in your allocated seat and you tell them to move and they tell you to get lost. That's just very bad behavior. But in a way, that's what ushers are there for. Mentioned Impossible, the final reckoning, is that number two, number three in

canon? First hour, second hour, fabulous submarine sequence and he's in his pants. Third hour, second hour, fabulous submarine sequence and he's in his pants, third hour, he's hanging off the side of a plane. That's it. And then you say goodbye. It is a two hour movie squeezed into three hours. And number one, Lilo and Stitch. Can I just say about this? And obviously you can age someone by the children's TV shows and characters that they remember from when they were a kid

and then from when their kids were watching TV. I had literally zero idea how popular Lilo and Stitch were. It was huge. It's not just number one. It is very number one. It has taken a vast amount of money and I knew that it was popular, but I just never realized it was this popular. Yeah, no, it's been a really big deal. I mean, ever since the anime feature came out, it's been a really big deal and it's had loads and loads of different incarnations. Yeah. Are you only discovering that now because you now have access to little ones who are

in what... No, no, we're not there. We're not at that stage yet. We're not there yet, no. Okay. We're still doing Teletubbies, aren't we? It's enormous. I mean, as Ben Bailey Smith was saying when we were talking about it, it's like the marketing gift that just keeps giving. So, Lady No. 6, still number one. Okay. So, we are going to be back very shortly with...

How to Train Your Dragon, the live action version, except for the dragon, and Echo Valley with our very special guest, who is Donald Gleeson who'll be with us after this. Hi there Mark, do you know why hiring the right people quickly is so important? Well the world of weekly film podcasts is so breakneck that when a vacancy comes up we need to fill it fast. Good thing that there's indeed sponsored jobs then when it comes to hiring indeed Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post seen on other job sites. Indeed Sponsored Jobs helps you stand out and hire fast. With Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster.

According to Indeed Data, Sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. So it makes a huge difference. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a £100 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash KermodeMayo. Just go to indeed.com slash KermodeMayo right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Hiring Indeed is all you need. This is an advert for Shopify.

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bustling streets. From now until June 30th, lease a 2025 Volvo XC60 from 1.74% and save up to $4,000. Conditions apply. Visit your GTA Volvo retailer or go to volvocars.ca for full details. Now, this week's guest is Donald Gleeson, who was last on, I think, for The Little Stranger back in the mists of 2018. He came into the studio to talk about Echo Valley on Apple TV+, and as you'll find out in cinemas as well, a few. From this Friday, he plays Jackie, who, to put it mildly, is not a very nice person. But again, don't all might

disagree. You'll hear all about it in my chat with Donal, which comes up after this clip. Finally came to your senses. This is what my daughter owes. So it's the end of it. You're making the rules now, Mom. You're making the rules now, huh, Mom? Nice. You give lessons out here? Horse lessons? I always wanted to ride a horse, and I just recently came into some money, so...

I never want to see you in this property ever again. You understand me? It must be awful. What? Having a kid like that. And that's a clip from Echo Valley. It's a new movie that stars Julia Moore, Sidney Sweeney and the wonderful Donald Gleeson. Hello Donald, how are you? I'm really good, how are you? And then when I say wonderful, clearly you're not that wonderful in this movie. How do you mean?

Well, what I mean is… That could mean a lot of different things. No, what I mean is you are very good in the picture. Good, good, good. The character that you play, as we just heard… Yeah. Well, how would you describe Jeff? I would say what he says in that clip is quite empathetic.

He's empathising with her, He's saying it must be awful. Here's the thing that I've learned about empathy. Just because you're empathetic, it doesn't mean you're using that for good. Oh! You can be, you can use all that empathy and realise how you can exploit someone. And I think that's very true of Jackie. We've been on the trail a little bit talking about it. And sometimes you realise more afterwards than you did at the time.

But I think like one of the things he's really good at is finding someone's, their vulnerability. He just knows it immediately. And when he finds it, he will get everything he can. Like he will exploit that to the most of his ability. And I think that's probably how he sees the world is in terms of power rankings. Is he above or below? And if he's above, how can he get the most from the person below him? Yeah, I think he just recognizes she's on the hook.

She loves her daughter way too much. We can get what we want from her. Yeah. I think it's very useful advice. As you go through life, just remember that someone who might be an empath might be using it for all the wrong reasons. Could also be a psychopath. Yeah.

And it's a whole new look for you. You're looking like a psychotic Ronan Keating. That's how I would have. Or just Ronan Keating. No, no, no. That's a joke. I've never met Ronan Keating. You've got long blonde hair. But anyway, introduce us to Jackie and then how he fits into Echo Valley. So in terms of how he fits in, the film is primarily about Julianne Moore and Sydney

Sweeney. Julianne is the mother to Sydney Sweeney. She's running a sort of a horse farm. She's in debt. She's in grief. And her daughter is not helping matters. Her daughter, who she loves deeply, is an addict and needs a lot of help. And things get pretty bad for her over the course of the film.

My character turns up at a certain point and he is a dealer to Sydney's character. And he just spots, he spots a weakness and a place where he feels he can do well and he unveils his way into their setup and that's kind of where he comes from. Yeah. So, normally when I see you, I don't see you as like a particular, I mean we can argue about whether he's thoroughly nasty or just mainly nasty, but I would imagine you had quite a lot of fun playing Jackie.

Yeah, it's interesting. I played, I did a TV show with Steve Carell about two and a half years ago now called The Patient in which I played a serial killer. Yeah, I mean that's on balance not nice. No, depends on your killing, but yeah, for the most part not nice. And he was, it was actually the most relaxed I'd ever been at work and the most I'd enjoyed my work ever. Okay, that's worrying. And I think it's to do with the fact that I got everything out at work.

It was like you just go and they're so, it's so active. It just felt like it all kind of, you got it out during the day. You know, you arrive home, you sleep, rest easy. So when you got home, you weren't feeling like a serial killer? Exactly. Okay. Because I still mainly associate, I mean, maybe this is just because of when you come on the show, when you were in Goodbye Christopher Robin. That's how I think of you. Somewhere between that, Star Wars and Harry Potter. And about time.

So less serial killer, more nice don't know. Yes. But like in something like Ex Machina or other things that I've sort of, some people know me from, those characters are like carrying a lot and there's a lot happening to them and they're under a lot of pressure and they kind of have to take it. And so those are the ones that worm into your head and follow you home and you kind of can't shake the feeling of being under someone else's thumb. And even Jackie in this film,

he's under pressure from a lot of other people. That's part of what I find interesting about him. But what he's doing in the film is holding people, other people under his thumb. And so there's something, I don't know, it just doesn't follow you around as much for some reason. How how much room for manoeuvre did you have in creating the character? How much of it was given to you? know, it just doesn't follow you around as much for some reason. Toby But the conversation I had with Michael was about just making sure he was a real person, like that he wasn't just a bad guy because I think it's probably scarier that he comes in and feels like a really real person who really kind of likes what he's doing and why that would be.

Like there have to be reasons for that. We don't need to know the reasons but finding that. And so digging into his luck, into how he would have grown up, what his world is like when he walks off screen, what his world is like when he walks off screen, what his home is like, the pressures he feels at home, all that sort of stuff. Building all that stuff was up to us. Away from it. And you did that.

And we did that. And it was great. Like, I met with the chief of police who was an advisor on the film and who had been an advisor on Mayor of Easttown that Brad Inglesby, the writer, also wrote. And he drove me around a couple of neighborhoods, talked me through a few sort of case files and then I watched documentaries and interviews and all the rest of it. Just tried to get a handle on it. People like Jackie. People like Jackie and people who were under the thumb of people like Jackie, yeah.

I remember talking to Tim Spall. He was talking about the movie Denial in which he plays, it was a court case, and he plays the historian in inverted commas, but Holocaust denier David Irving. And he plays the David Irving character. And he was saying the same kind of things as you, which is, you know, I need to be able to explain him. Yeah. He hasn't arrived as this kind of fully-fledged monster who we want to lose the court case, and he does lose the court case and he does lose the

court case. But it was just hearing Tim Small trying to find the positive in the character like David Irving was so intriguing. Obviously this is fiction is what you're talking about. This is a very interesting process which I think people from outside your world will find extraordinary really. Yeah and maybe it's all just too inside baseball and it's stuff that people don't need to know. All that matters is what you see on screen and how it makes you feel.

The way you get there shouldn't really matter and is of no interest to most people, but like I think sometimes these things work and sometimes they don't. I think this film really works like as a thriller. And I think part of the reason it really works is when people talk about elevated genre, which I used to talk about,

and then I realized in a way it was doing down genre, because there's good genre films and bad genre films, as there are good films and bad films, and a good genre film will probably be elevated, if you know what I mean. And I think this is, like this is, it's just a good genre film because it's a thriller, but like Julianne's performance is fantastic,

Sydney's performance is fantastic. You've got all these amazing actors in it, playing roles that are not the biggest roles in the film. Michael directed it really, really well. It's shock great. Like I just feel like it's a kind of a high caliber movie. And I think it works incredibly well in its own terms. And you're entirely right.

But I'm intrigued by the amount to which you could create. So you're working off the page, but then you were creating yourself. And a couple of years back, Martin McDonough was on, talking about the banshees of Inner Sharon, which of course your father was him. That's not the point I'm making. But I knew what he was going to say because I said to him, if Colin Farrell or Brendan came up to you and said, can I say it like this?

Can I change the words here and say it like this? What would you say? And I can't actually tell you what he said. I would tell them to go away because I'm the best writer on set. And I just thought they were so fascinating because he's a playwright. And I think, is it the lieutenant of Inishmore, one of the first things that you did? So you've worked with Martin McDonough. And I think, is it the lieutenant of Inishmore, one of the first things that you did,

so you've worked with Martin McDonagh. Compare working with someone like Martin McDonagh with Michael Pierce, where you appear to have slightly more- Leeway? Yes. Well, I would say the reason that we hire actors to do things is because what's on the page

can be delivered an infinite number of ways. So just because you keep the commas in the same place and you keep the words in the same place, the way that you say them, when they go for take two, you do take one, when they go for take two, you're not looking to replicate what you did in take one and take two,

you're looking to give another version to connect in a different way, to explore the material in a different way, the words can stay exactly the same. And so the script for this was really good. I don't think that there's very little improv in this film, but like you would on Martin's thing, he is the best writer on set. That is true.

But like, you know, Colin's a better actor than Martin is. And so the choices that Colin brings from his end of thing to make sense of those words, that's his work and the gaps in between and the way he delivers them and make sense of those words, that's his work. And the gaps in between and the way he delivers them and what they mean to him, that's his work. And so it's all the same in one way. Sometimes you're more tied to the script and sometimes there's more room to go off piste,

but like how you prepare for it, how you choose to look, act, the energy you bring to a scene, the unobvious things you do to keep surprising yourself, to surprise your fellow actors, to surprise your director, not just a surprise, but if it's alive, it'll keep surprising you. That's your job. And I would say that's the same on a Martin McDonough thing as it is. Also, when I worked with Martin, just to, I've been talking too long, but just to, when I was working with Martin, Martin was the writer, Wilson Milam was the director, and it was a play. So those things you do have to tie

down in certain ways so it is replicable every night. On a film there's more room to like try and fail in the moment, and your duty is to the scene, not to the overall thing. I just love the fact that if a small little regional theatre is putting on the lieutenant of Inishmore and they write to Martin and say, can we just change a line? He will say, no, you can't. These are the words and you absolutely can't change. So everybody knows exactly where they are. That's true for most theatre, I would say. And like Beckett, the Beckett estate is incredibly, it has to be as written. And I think that's right.

You know, I think, I know Martin saw a production of his once that had gone slightly off piste. And I think he decided thereafter to be even more like, no, do it or don't do it. And one other thing about Jackie, I'm endlessly fascinated by accents and voices. Mainly it's because, you know, coming up in radio, you just pay a lot of attention to the way someone sounds. Where does Jackie come from? Jackie comes from somewhere in Pennsylvania. We decided not to go full Delco accent on it.

Delaware County, I think it's short for, but it's a very particular accent. It would have been in Mayor of Easttown a lot and people and they did the accent so brilliantly in that. But in this it felt like maybe he would have stood out too much. He's already from a different world. He's already sort of an alien in this world and we didn't want to just keep on making things that were different.

But I just worked with a dialect coach on it and talked to Michael about it and talked to Brad about it and then did my own work. And where we ended up I'm happy with and I think it works in the film, you know, I think it's real and without being distracting, without being the point, if you know what I mean. No, absolutely, it's not the point. I think the last thing I'd seen you in before this was Fountain of Youth where I think that's your own accent It is my own accent pretty pretty much. How rare is that to do my own pretty rare?

Yeah, pretty rare guy which you really wanted me to do my own accent on it. So I decided to do that Yeah, which accents are the most difficult for you? I mean a common thing that people say as Welsh I remember trying to get a Welsh accent down for an audition when I was in my teens. And it was my aunt or uncle I remember was at a rugby match and asked loads of people to record my lines. It was like Ireland against Wales. Asked a lot of people like Welsh fans to record that. And I got nowhere close. I think I'd make a better fist of it now, but I think it would be pretty intimidating. Yeah, I think just making it feel like you're actually speaking as opposed to just doing the accent. You can end up playing

the accent rather than playing the part sometimes and that's why the work, that's why you do the work to try and not do that. What does that mean? Well, you're just a prisoner to the accent. All you're thinking about is this like a schwa or is this a rounded O or is this at the front of the mouth of the back. Like if that's in your head, you're in real trouble. You you your job is to communicate and be in the moment. And if you're thinking about an accent, that's hard to do. The Echo Valley, which I enjoyed very much, should be in a cinema.

I mean, it is in a cinema. Oh, is it? OK, because this is an Apple movie. Yeah, they're they're putting it in some picture house, cinemas around the place and a few others, I think. So there'll be a time where you can see it in the cinema. And I saw it in the cinema in New York. It's also going out in cinemas over in America. Okay. But quite a few cinemas in England, I mean, comparatively to a lot of Apple releases. And I'm really excited about that because it looks great. It sounds great. And with an audience, it's twisty turny. And in New York, I mean, people are kind of more vocal. Audiences are sometimes more vocal in the cinema over there. But there was a real like, oh, my God, you know, like there was a real like gasps and all that sort of stuff as it progressed, which made me. Yeah, it felt fantastic to be in a room full of people.

Certainly, if you can seek it out in the cinema, because it will it will repay you. But it's an Apple TV show. And there's just one of the things that made me laugh, which is it's quite a watery story. And there was a story last week that Sidney Sweeney, your co-star in this movie, is selling or has sold a bathwater salts made out of her own bathwater, and it's sold out. Have you seen this? No. Is it true? It's true, and it's sold out. Have you seen this? No. Is it true? It's true and it's officially approved by her that it has it has essence of her own bath water in these salts.

I mean, young people nowadays of releasing my own. Yeah. And no, no, if I had my own fragrance, I remember back back when I was doing Harry Potter talking with one of the other people in the cast and talking about like if you had if you had to release a fragrance, what would it be? And I always thought Fear by Donald Gleeson would be a good one. Just the smell of fear of just a man being afraid. The Donald Douche. Yeah, no, no, no, let's not do that.

What do we see you in next tunnel? So this is Echo Valley is coming out. And then I did a TV show called The Paper in America, which is sort of like a I don't know what you would call it. They're saying it's in the universe, same universe of the American office. So it's like the documentary crew from the American office go to Toledo, Ohio, go to a different city and follow a sort of a fail. They call it a failing Midwestern paper and newspaper.

So it's set in newspaper offices. And I did that and I'm really looking forward to that. And I hope it's good. I haven't seen it yet. I'm really looking forward to it. What accent are you in that one? American in that one. A more and more general American one. But yeah, it was great.

And Tim Keith and I just saw the ballad of Wallace Island and thought it was superb. So it was very nice. It's great. Donald Gleason, it's great. Oh, Tim Keyes in it, and I just saw the ballad of Wallace Island and thought it was superb. So it was very nice working with him. Donald Gleeson, it's always a pleasure. Thank you so much indeed for coming in. We wish you all the best. Thanks for having me. What do you think about wittertainment water that we could put out, as well as the mugs

and the chairs and the- Incontinence pants. Yeah, the incontinence pants. Yeah, the incontinence pants. Soon to, coming very soon. We could, we could put out our own bath water. The tone of this week's show has definitely taken a dip, hasn't it? Sydney's, where does, where does, that's a very strange story. Don't you think? Well, when you said it to me, I thought, what?

And then I looked it up and as I, my reaction was exactly the same as Donald's was, but is that true? Yeah. And then you look it up and my reaction was exactly the same as Donal's was, but is that true? And then you look it up and go, no, it is true. So Echo Valley brackets far away in time. What do you make of that? So, well, just a little bit of a recap. So this is on Apple TV Plus, but also in Select Cinema, it's a picture house, we're doing it. So it's directed by Michael Pierce, who, as you rightly said, made Beast, which is a brilliant drama with Jesse Buckley and Johnny Flynn, an encounter in which Riz Ahmed is this troubled father trying to save his kids from some coming apocalypse, and written by Brad Inglesby,

whose credits most significantly include Mayor of Easttown. Mayor of Easttown, I think, gave Kate Winslet her best role ever as this really tough mum whose child similarly was wrestling with addiction. That theme of addiction, betrayal, parent, child, that's front and centre here. Basically, Julianne Moore is Kate living on this farm in the wake of a personal tragedy. She's estranged from her daughter Claire, played by Sidney Sweeney. Karl McClachlan is the father who points out that yes, she's an addict and all she wants is money. One night Claire turns up in a great sense of distress wanting more than money, wanting a way out of something terrible that's happened. Essentially what happens is that Julian Moore suddenly steps up and says, I'll fix it. This then begins this crime thriller, which as

Donald Gleeson said, is full of twists, full of turns, full of those kind of generic beats. I am very pleased that in that interview, Donald Gleeson said, I don't like that term elevated genre, because the point is genre is elevated in and of itself. It's just good. So elevated horror? No, it's just good horror. Elevated thriller? No, it's just good thriller.

Hello Road a few weeks ago asked that question about how far would a parent go for their child. In the case of this, that question is not the end of the drama, that's the beginning of the setup of the drama because that's then what sets everything else in motion. Now I watched this knowing nothing in advance and I was really glad that I did. If you've seen the trailer, you will already know probably more than you need to. But the thing about it is it you are basically interested in the characters. You are basically invested in all the characters. And at no point do you watch it and think, oh, it's just the twists and turns. Because if you did, because as is the case with any sort of

generic thriller, the twists and turns aren't enough to engage you. The reason that you're engaged is because you do care about Julianne Moore's mom. That clip that you played, that horrible moment when Donald Gleeson's character, Jackie, says it must be terrible having a kid like that. That kind of pierces right to the heart of it. All the way through, I think the way that Sydney Sweeney plays this girl who's completely at her wit's end, even that very, very brief performance by Karl McCracklen, which is really good, it's just like one scene in which he sets out his stall, which is, I've had enough, all she wants is money and you keep giving into her and as long as you keep giving into her this will keep happening. So I think the result is a really gripping thriller,

looks terrific even though I saw it on a small screen, well I've got a big small screen here, but I think it is worth seeing in the cinema. Loads and loads of twisty turny, yes, obviously convoluted because it's a thriller, but all of those things work because you care about the characters, you care about the people, you care about what's going to happen to them. So you've got believable characters in a kind of roller coaster thriller situation.

So that's it, it's not an elevated thriller in the same way those films are elevated. It is a good thriller. It is a really good genre piece. And I was, I spoke to Michael Pierce. I said, it's interesting. The three films, Beast and Encounter and this, they're all about fractured parent child relationships.

He said, you know, it's the weird thing. I only realized that when critics started telling me and I don't know why it is that I've made three films with that because I had a really, really happy childhood. He said, but it's true. I have returned to that theme and I think that's at the center of this and I think that's what makes it in the same way as Hallow Road. I think it's what makes it really work because it's a situation that you can understand as a down to earth, real situation in an increasingly unreal drama. So I enjoyed it very much.

In selected cinemas and on Apple TV plus is where you can see that. Do you add anything to your bath water? Do you add salts or smelly things or bubbly things? I have to say I'm not really a bath kind of guy. I'm a shower kind of guy. No, no, no. You said many times bath, an addition of private eye and a beer. Private eye and a Budweiser, yeah. But I have to say that was an earlier incarnation of me. I don't think I've had a bath in quite a long time. So do you take the beer and the private eye into the shower? Into the shower.

Wow. Anyways, the ad's in a minute, Mark, but first it's time to step into the, well, not quite into the lift or into the bath, but the lift of laughter. That's what we bring in you. This is my ringtone now, my phone. I love it. It just puts me in such a good mood because I know top class comedy comes when you hear this music. Mark, I've just been reading the latest in dental hygiene research. Have you been following that? I haven't, no. Do you know that studies show that you should not brush your teeth with your left hand?

Because apparently a toothbrush works much better. Pardon? Oh, I see. A toothbrush works better than your left hand. Okay, fine. I got into trouble last night, bedtime. I thought I was helping out with grandchild one with his English. I said if A is for airplanes and B is for boats, what's C for grandchild one? Car granddad

slash bestify. He said optimistically. No, I said C4 is an explosive containing 91% explosive nitroamine, 5.3% di-octyl sebacate, and 2.1% polyisobutylene. You can read all about it and all the other fascinating chemicals and how to combine them. In itch, the explosive adventures of an element hunter. And here's a copy. I wasn't... I was told quite clearly I wasn't going to be invited back anytime soon. Mark, I went to a very annoying film screening this week. Why, I hear you ask. Why? Well, I had to sit right behind the Scottish presenter of ITV's long-running weekday morning

chat and lifestyle show. She's so tall. Thankfully, she didn't enjoy the screening and left after a few minutes. And I thought to myself, I can see clearly now Lorraine has gone Hey Was wondering where that was going. Yes. Well, and then it went and as indeed did Lorraine. What are we doing? It's a factual problem. I don't think that she is actually tall is she? Yeah, yes

She is under because you see her on television and her legs are actually twice as long as a man's humans and they're just kind of tucked under. They have to, it's quite difficult, they have to prop them in and tie them up underneath the chair. Then when she does have to stand up then she gets to like seven foot five something like that. Okay, okay. What are we doing next? Next we're doing how to train your dragon live action, but not all of it. Back after this. This episode is brought to you by Mubi, a curated streaming service, dedicated to elevating great cinema. Mubi is the place to discover ambitious films by visionary filmmakers, all carefully handpicked,

so you can explore the best of cinema streaming anytime, anywhere. And Simon, I'm just going to put down this damn fine coffee, get straight to it. Twin Peaks is streaming on MUBI from June the 13th onwards to celebrate its 35th anniversary. I have just watched all of series one and series two back to back. I am about to embark on the return. I was knocked out once again by just how fantastic Twin Peaks is. Brilliant Central Forwards by Karl McLaughlin. Superbly created by David Lynch and Mark Frost. Brilliant, groundbreaking television. Watch an episode every day once a day and give yourself a present.

By signing up to MUBI, you can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com slash Kermode and Mayo. That's MUBI.com slash Kermode and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. Well now, Correspondence at KermodeandMayo.com is where you get in touch, and this is from Mark Dunne in Toronto. Okay. Mark says, Dear Dutch, an oven, just catching up on the pod. I was listening to Mark and Ben and Mary.com is where you get in touch and this is from Mark Dunn in Toronto. Okay. Mark says, dear Dutch and oven, just catching up on the pod. I was listening to Mark and Ben talk about Dutch angles.

Yes. Dutch angles. When I decided to Google the term and discovered a nice little Easter egg. And this is what you have to, you need to Google Dutch oven. No Dutch angle. Dutch angle. Okay. Hang on. Oh, look at that. They've tilted it so that we just described them now because obviously it hasn't tilted a lot, but it's just enough. So basically it's, yeah, it's come up on the, on the, on the page and the whole thing is just slightly on the shock. Okay. That's very good. That

is very good. Mason- It used to be that when you Google Jason Isaacs, there was a little thing that said, hello to Jason. But I don't think that's there anymore. Last time I looked, that isn't there anymore. Mark- That is very funny. Mason- But it did make me think. So Mark, thank you very much indeed. How many Easter egg kind of jokes are there on Google? So we've just stumbled upon Dutch Angle, which we would never have got there if you hadn't had that conversation and Mark hadn't let us know about it. But if you know of any other Easter egg-y kind of jokes that we should know about, then drop us an email please, correspondence at kerbidermayor.com. Okay, dragon time, off

we go. Mason- Okay, so this is the how to Train Your Dragon. This is the latest live action in inverted commas, a reversioning of an animated hit. In this case, the DreamWorks animation, which itself was loosely based on the novel of the same name by Cressida Cowell. So I interviewed Cressida Cowell at Latitude some time ago, and she was a big fan of the animation, which spawned sequels, TV series, video game, an arena show adaptation, a whole bunch of stuff. The film departed quite a lot from the book, but she thought it generally kept to the spirit of it. In this particular case, the original co-writer, co-director, Dean DuBois returns to helm this live version with composer John Powell, also back in the saddle.

Here is a clip. If you're listening to that and not seeing the visuals from it, you'll probably notice that it's got a surprising similarity to the version that you probably already know and love. So the cast includes Mason Thames from Black Phone as Hiccup, Nico Parker as Astrid, Nick Frost as Gob with a Belch, plus Gerard Butler, whose voice as Gerard Butler was in the first one, now comes back and plays the live action version of himself as Hiccup's father. And actually, he looks surprisingly similar in real life to the animated version. He's got this creepy costume on that makes him vast, as he's meant to be. So actually, that's a very good bit of casting. So he looks very much like the animated version of himself, as indeed does the rest of the film from the appearance of Toothless, who of course, as indeed does the rest of the film

from the appearance of Toothless, who of course Toothless the Dragon is an animated dragon, as Toothless the Dragon was in the original animation. And then they got the spectacular flying sequences, which are very close to the spectacular flying sequences of the original. In fact, there are several scenes from the original, which are, as far as I can remember, because bear in mind it's a while ago, they were pretty

much shot for shot the same thing. And I remember when I was watching it, I was thinking, do you remember when Gus Van Sant remade Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho, shot for shot? Yeah. And everyone went, what's the point of that? And then Michael Hanneker remade Funny Games, pretty much shot for shot as Funny Games US. And he was solving the problem in inverted commas of the original version, you know, being not in the English language and Funny Games US is in the English language. And okay, there are a few tweaks and additions. Now I confess, I haven't seen the original for a long time, but there appear to be some things that are added here. I think that the role of Astrid is more important

in this version. I think the stuff about the history of the island has been sort of beefed up, and that sort of anti-war escalation thing that was going on in the original. And then you get the flying sequences, which are spectacular, but occasionally a little bit quidditchy. And when I say quidditchy, I mean, you remember how the thing with quidditch was it always looked like an actor sitting on a prop. You know, it never really looked like they were actually flying on broomsticks. But I mean, for good reason, because they were good, they were actually flying on broomsticks.

But I mean, for good reason, because they were good, they were well done, but there was always a little bit. I don't think I ever thought that. No, okay, fine. But the thing is, when you do that stuff in an animation, you know, a cartoon, as people used to call them, in animation, everything looks completely over piece. When you do it as a live action and a mixture of live action and animation, I just think, well, what's the point of this? Because you had it perfectly right the first time. Because the thing that everyone agrees about how to train your dragon for the first time around

was it was absolutely breathtaking. And those flying sequences were spectacular. And I watched a lot of this thinking, this is a really faithful, in inverted commas, live action reproduction of an animated film that has added nothing, but has taken away some of the magic of the animation. And again, I'm sorry about this.

You come back to this question, why is it happening? Well, the reason is simple. It's happening because the box office will make it worthwhile. It will take a ton of money and I'm sure that people will enjoy it because it's a good story and the animation was really good and this is kind of a remake of that anyway. Nick Frost has a lot of fun in his role and he's good and Gerald Butler has a lot of fun in his role and he's good. But there was never any point that I thought anything other than, why are we doing this? What has this brought to the table other than it's in inverted commas live action?

It's an exciting tale of a kid and a dragon and overcoming, oh, we don't want to fight the dragons, we want to be friends with them and all that stuff. I can't get beyond the, why are we doing this? Why are we doing this? And the only answer I can come up with is because it will make a ton of money. That's quite a good reason to do it, isn't it? Is that a good reason? Am I just being a grump? I think if, well, for example, if with attainment incontinence pants were a genuinely big deal and we sold a million, I would say that's a good idea. Why are we doing it? To make money. And also obviously to help people. But in this business, if you think something is going to make

a stack of money, then you're going to do it. If I can just paraphrase what you then just said, the live action version of how to train your dragon is the wittertainment incontinence pants of current releases. Yeah. Okay. That works. Yeah. It will leave you feeling damp. Does that work? Put it on the post. What was that? That old phrase wasn't here. How did it go? Very well. Not a dry seat in the house. I don't know. I love animation. I love animat- Why do we need to do this? Correspondence at Kermit and Mo.com. That's the end of take one. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh and Heather. The producer was Jem, the redactor is Simon Mr. Poole. And if

you're not following the pod already, please do so wherever you get your podcast. That would be a very nice thing. Mark, what is your film of the week? Well, I am going to take a leaf out of James Boy King's book and I am going to go for the Scottish samurai movie you never knew you needed, Tornado. Mason- Thank you very much Steve for listening. Take Two has landed adjacent to this here pod, some fabulous movies to discuss and very many entertaining features. You'll be absolutely amazed. Anyway, thank you very much. But you absolutely must get Take Two because there is a second movie of the week in Take Two. Mason- I will be personally let down if you don't.

Anyway, thank you for listening.