Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Edgar Wright on THE RUNNING MAN

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

Some exciting news—The Take is now on Patreon: www.patreon.com/kermodeandmayo. Become a Vanguardista or an Ultra Vanguardista to get video episodes of Take Two every week, plus member‑only chat rooms, polls and submissions to influence the show, behind‑the‑scenes photos and videos, the monthly Redactor’s Roundup newsletter, and access to a new fortnightly LIVE show—a raucous, unfiltered lunchtime special with the Good Doctors, new features, and live chat so you can heckle, vote, and have your questions read out in real time. The fabulous Edgar Wright joins us on this week’s Take to talk ‘The Running Man’—his new adaptation of the Stephen King dystopia. You might remember the Arnie version from 1987, but Wright’s is a refreshed take starring very angry action man Glen Powell. He plays Ben Richards, an out-of-work dad living in the slums of a sci-fi totalitarian state, who enters a deathmatch gameshow in the hope of winning the cash he needs to save his sick child. Edgar and Simon talk action classics, staying on Arnie’s good side, and why Stephen King called the film ‘Die Hard for our time’. Mark reviews it too—plus two more big movies out this week: a blockbuster and an exciting indie. In the arthouse corner, the Palme d’Or-winning ‘Titane’ director Julia Ducournau’s latest, ‘Alpha’. In her usual out-there style, it follows a troubled teenage girl who returns home with a mysterious tattoo, amidst a terrifying bloodborne epidemic. And from Hollywood, ‘Now You See Me: Now You Don’t’, the latest entry in the slick magician‑heist franchise... which has left Mark wishing it would do a disappearing act. Ladies and gentlemen, be marveled as a Kermodean rant is conjured before your eyes! Plus more exquisite dad jokes and guaranteed groans in The Laughter Lift, and we’ll hear plenty from you lovely lot as always—including some prizewinning pedantry. Keep it coming! AND Don’t miss our upcoming LIVE Christmas Extravaganza at London’s Prince Edward Theatre on 7th December—with special guests Nia DaCosta, Gurinder Chadha, and more! Tickets here: fane.co.uk/kermode-mayo Timecodes (for Vanguardistas listening ad-free) Alpha Review: 13:11 BO10: 21:42 Edgar Wright Interview: 38:14 The Running Man Review: 53:04 Laughter Lift: 1:03:12 Now You See Me: Now You Don’t Review: 1:04:40 You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo Please take our survey and help shape the future of our show: https://www.kermodeandmayo.com/survey EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Mooby, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema. Mubi is the place to discover ambitious films by visionary filmmakers, all carefully handpicked. So you can explore the best of cinema streaming anytime, anywhere. Mark, what have Mooby got up their sleeves for us this October? Well, Simon, is a very exciting new release, The Mastermind, which is now in UK Cinemas. It's the new film from Kelly Reichard, the brilliant director of Meeks Cutoff, Night Moves, and First Cow for which we interviewed Toby Jones. The film went down a storm in Cannes earlier this year.

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Check the link in the description. Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguard Easter and get an extra episode every Thursday. Including bonus reviews. Extra viewing suggestions. Viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas. Plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in questions, Schmestgen. You can get all that extra stuff via Apple Podcasts

or head to extra takes.com for non-fruit-related devices. never been a better time to become a vanguard Easter. Free offer, now available, wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a vanguard Easter, we salute you. is up. See the microphone? Did it go into the red? I think it did. It did.

Actually, I'm going to hold it up so you can see it. What is actually up? Remember the lead singer of Chickory Tip? I can't remember who he was, but he went on top of the pops trying to do a Mick Jagger impression. And he basically ate the microphone like that. So that was my chickery tip. Son of my father. Son of my father.

Written by? I don't know. Georgio Moroda. No. Didi-de-de-de-de-de-de-di-di-di-d-de. Yeah. The man who then went on to invent Munich Disco. Wow, that's amazing.

It's a live show day today. But not right now. But not right now. This bit isn't live. This is our new, new, extra exciting feature. Although by the time this podcast... This goes out. The live show will have happened.

How was it for you? Well, I thought it was even better than our first effort. It's hard to imagine. Yeah. When we went live without... Anyone telling us. What could have been absolutely catastrophic. It's one of those things that always happens in films,

that like in, is it called disclosure or whatever that film is, in which the case is solved by the fact that Demi Moore accidentally sat on the telephone that left a message on the answer phone that then had a whole recording of the crime playing out. And everyone goes, yeah, that would never happen in real life. And then it did. Somebody, we were just live without knowing about it. Was it taking of Pelham, one, two, three, where right at the end, the guy sneezes.

Guzantite. Yeah. Which, of course, is not in the book. It is a brilliant part of the screenplay. It is fantastic. And he goes, he sneezes, and he says, Gazentite, and then the door opens, and Walter Mattau's face comes in, and then it freeze frames on Walter Matthau's face. I love that film, and I love the music for that film.

It's a gotcha moment for sure. Boom, dun, dun, da da da, bum, boom, boom, it's brilliant. That's your take on the music, by the way, I think. Just, uh... Look, have you seen this? You've seen this magazine? Literary review. I mean, I've heard about it, because you went on about the review that you got in it.

Yeah, yeah. I've got, not one, but two hard copies of it, because I'm so pleased. I'm going to... So later on in the show, Mark's going to be talking, apart from literary review, he's going to be... I'm going to be literally reviewing... Literally reviewing. Literally reviewing Alpha, which is the new film by Julie de Corno, who made Titan, which I know is one of your favourite films of the year.

Have sex with a car? No. I know life is full of choices, but really? Seat belts on. Now you see me, now you don't. Which I thought was the sequel to Now You See Me, because I've forgotten that there was actually already a sequel, Now You See Me Too. But when it came out, everyone said that they should have called it, Now You See Me, Now You Don't.

and, of course, the new version of the Running Man with our very, very special guest. Who is Ed? You're right. Which is a very lovely thing. And I walked into the room and apologized again for not recognizing him in a sandwich shop. What? Well, the time I'd seen him previously to doing this interview, I was buying a sandwich in a sandwich shop. And this voice says, hello, Simon, and I turned around, and I obviously looked blank, which is what I tend to do, and he said, it's Edgar. And I went, oh yeah, sorry, I wasn't expecting you in a sandwich queue in Pure. Anyway, he was working on some ads. He was doing some ads in Soho, so he just wandered out. Anyway, but it was fine. He'd forgotten about it. It's hard not to recognize.

He's very recognizable. Yeah, it's just, like, if you saw him digging your garden, you might go, what are you digging my garden? I mean, I know you look like Edgar, right, but you're digging my garden. Anyway, and in take two, what's going on there? What you're reviewing there? We have reviews of a new horror film called A Keeper by Osgood Perkins and Nuremberg, in which Russell Crow is Herman Gurring. Yeah, I mean, I switched off at that point.

I've seen the posters, and I thought, no, I don't think so. But anyway, I look forward to the review. I keep an open mind. Wait and see. Obviously. Hello to everyone who works on the Football Cliques' Podcasts. because they were talking about us, and just to say, you're completely correct. Thank you very much. Although I'd also like to say that Mark had no idea.

No, exactly right. And still isn't quite clear what happened. On take two, we get all the extra stuff, including details of all the best and worst films on TV over the weekend, further discussion of the best absurdist black comedies in one frame back, and questions, shmestians, in which we answer the excellent question, what do we mean when we talk about excellent direction and how to tell you, the difference between good and bad. That's direction, not good and bad, in a general moral sense.

Yes. But maybe there's a spillover. Plus, reminding you that there are full video episodes now available on YouTube, as well as the reviews and interviews, so you can head over and subscribe. A quick reminder of the good stuff available over on Patreon, polls, and submissions.

Behind the scenes, photos and videos, Mark is overperforming in this department, and I'm struggling to catch up. You sent me a text which said, I was making you look bad. video versions of Take 2 And the redactors round up A monthly newsletter

Which he's been waiting for years To get away with And now he appears to be doing it I think it is the definition of self-published And an entirely new show Which by the time you've heard this We've already done But Take Ultra is our new

Fortnightly show streamed live From Showbiz, North London, Hoban and Cambridge Mark's in Cambridge I am in Cambridge You're in Hoban So head to patreon.com slash kermode and Mayo Yeah, no. All the staff are in Hoban. I'm in showbiz, North London, obviously. That's right. That's the one. Yes. So just a reminder that the Kermode and Mayo Christmas special, spectacular, is spectacularly back. It is. It's back on December 7th at the Prince Edward Theatre in the West End of London. Festive cinematic witterings and characteristic bickerings. It says here, live on stage in a sequel that gives this year's biggest blockbusters a run for them.

money. This Christmasy extravaganza will feature all the best bits from the podcast, reviews of the week's newest releases, interviews with the stars of the silver screen, and the Christmas cracker laughter. That is going to be a feature, plus the return of Simon and Marks to mind, our Christmas quiz, where the audience members will go head to head in a film buff battle for the ages for a VIP pass to come and have a mince pie with us backstage, which, as we mentioned last week, as prizes go, it's one of the worst. However, that's top prize. second prize is to have two mince pies with us backstage. Also, tip-top guests, including hello to Jason Isaacs, wandering around a fan convention in New Orleans, but joining us

via the miracle of the Intraweb. How confident are you that that's going to happen? I'm worried already. I'm very confident because our top team will be on it. Garinda Chard is going to be talking about her new film, her new film of A Christmas Carol, which is called, Mark. It's called Christmas Karma. And? Yes, Gorinda's going to be with us. And, and me. Also, So, Nia D'Costa, director of Candyman, The Marbles and Hedda, who is now helmed 28 days later, the Bone Temple. Full of Christmas delights that film is going to be, she's going to be telling us about the jimmies and all that kind of stuff. But it is a hotly anticipated film, so to have a chat with Nia will be a very exciting thing. Remind us of the details then, which I was literally just doing that for you, interrupted me.

Sorry about that. Sunday the 7th of December. When is it going to be? What time? Shut up. tickets cost. Sunday the 7th of December, 2.30pm.

Tickets start at 27 pound 50 and the dedicated pre-sale link is Fane, Fane, Fane.comte at UK slash take. That's, it's as straightforward as that. Fane.n.E. Fane.combe at UK slash take. Very good. All right. Yes.

We're still going. Oh yeah, yeah. No, I didn't think we'd finished. Oh, I thought you were stepping away from the microphone. all right. Okay. Do you think there's a market

for a five-minute podcast? I think there probably is, yeah. Back in Radio One day's, we did it in two bands of four minutes. We did.

Four and a half, maybe. All the films in four minutes and all the VHS and videos in another four minutes. So we could. And in between, we had a sting record. Yeah.

Playing some fantastic jazz bass, which is my favorite kind of bass. Natasha in Manchester, Simon and Mark, I was wondering what your thoughts were on multi-million pound corporations ripping off independent movies for their Christmas adverts. I was genuinely shocked this morning to see John Lewis. I'm not sure they're a multi-million pound corporation, really. They're a big company there, had released their seasonal

ad, and it was a direct copy of the highly emotional dance floor sequence from Afterson. I think it's incredibly shameful, knowing that a good majority of the general public won't have seen Afterson to then pass this idea off as their own. I do hope Charlotte Wells and everyone involved in the making of this magnificent movie will be getting some kind of creative royalties from this advert over the festive period. Long-term listener, moviegoer and supporter of independent film, Natasha in Manchester. When I first saw it, I thought it had been, I mean, thank you, Natasha for the email and an interesting observation. And now you mention it, that is obviously, there is obviously a kind of a reference there. I was thinking of adolescence and the fact that

Maybe they were trying to deal with masculinity or something like that. But was the after-send comparison clear for you? Well, I mean, I confess, because we got sent the advert by Simon Paul, because I'm very culturally illiterate, said, watch this. And I watched it. And I thought, sorry, what? I don't know what's going on. I actually thought it was a whole other thing going on, which is.

And so the first time I watched it, I had that feeling of I don't know what's going on. And then I Google something about it. And everyone's saying, oh, it's about it's about masculinity. in crisis and men not talking. And I did think it looks an awful lot like a scene out of After Sun. I mean, look, I'm not the person to ask,

but the first time I saw it, I thought, I don't, sorry, what? And that's never a good, I remember once interviewing a very, very famous and well-respected filmmaker, who you would not think of as someone who does adverts. And he had done a couple of adverts,

which, you know, which he did to fund his movies. But the thing, The thing about him was that because he's the kind of filmmaker who's very interested in character and plot and all that stuff, he wasn't very good at the advert. And he'd made an advert in which there was a bunch of people in a house. And I had no idea how any of them were related to any of the other ones. And it was a problem because what you need in an advert is pack shot, you know, pack shot, pack shot, pack shot, pack shot. And then we did an article about it for detail magazine. And then we did an interview with a filmmaker who said, you have to understand that when you're making narrative films, you're telling a story. When you're making adverts, you're selling a story. which is a long way of saying, I watched that advert and thought, what's all that about? Well,

they've successfully marketed this thing whereby, you know, everyone is waiting for the John Lewis ad, and it's always quite a big deal every year. Is it?

Yeah, and it makes people weep on a fairly regular basis. Did you, did you weep at this one? No, I haven't wept at any of them, but what they do is they tell

like a nice little story and then say, and if you want a decent Christmas, get your stuff at John Lewis. Okay. Well, like I said, I'm,

I mean, I'm not the person to ask, but I watched it. But you weren't appalled like Natasha in Manchester. I was just confused. I just didn't, I just didn't get it. I just didn't, in the same way as you were talking before about the football podcast that we quoted without me. I just didn't get it. So it was like, okay, sorry, what? So he was at club and his dad was there and they didn't expect each other to be there. What was that about? Anyway. Good. Well, that's clearly worked. I suppose it's also worked for John Lewis, because we're talking about them. And I've just used their catchphrase.

Did you? Yeah. What's the catchphrase? Never knowingly undersold. I'm not sure if they actually do that anymore. But I do remember a listener contributing to my five live show because there was a, there's a cricketer called John Lewis and someone just sent in a text which said never knowingly underbold, which I thought was very, very funny.

But you know what might, I've always used that as the description of my writing, which is never knowingly underwritten. Okay. Well, you know, these are all spin-offs. courtesy of John Lewis, who are not sponsoring this podcast. Yes. They want to send us some Christmas fair. That's absolutely fine.

What is out and what's groovy? Alpha is the new film by Julie de Corno, who made Rour and Titan. And you and I disagreed about Titan, but I think she's an amazing filmmaker. She made a real splash with Roar, and then she won the Palm Door with Titan. So, story of Alpha is this. We meet 13-year-old Alpha, played by Melissa Boris, in our... a non-specific, possibly alternate time and space, not quite sure where and when, passed out at a party where someone is tattooing her arm. This is a world in which there is a new

contagious blood-borne disease, which appears to turn organs into something like marble and then to dust, actually credit to the makeup artist Olivier Alfonso, who's done a brilliant job with that. She has an uncle, I mean, played by Tahar Rahim, who's fantastic, who is an addict. And because he's been using needles, there is a suggestion that he may be infected by this new disease. She comes home one day to find him, which she hasn't seen for ages and ages and ages in her room. Now, I'm going to play you a clip. The clip is not in the English language, so you know this is what happens. Do you mean it's in French? Yes. Yeah. He comes into the room. She finds him running away. She grabs a knife. She holds a knife at him.

saying, you know, who are you, what you're doing here? And he says, you don't remember me? And then says, I told you, mother, it was a bad idea to let me stay in your room. There's no sense of boundaries in this family. So basically, he's very cool and casual. She's very alarmed. Here's the clip.

I don't know if I please. I don't know. There's no no. There's a man that will arrive. Well, I'm not saying that I'd creche here. You've not said that I'd creche here? I've prevened that it would be a good idea that I'd go to your shone. I've no sense of limit in this family.

I mean, there's not a lot to work with in terms of the audio, but I told you what was happening there. Anyway, so... When the not, when the... I did think it was someone just outside on the landing here and turn around and thought, oh no, no, it's on the clip.

It's your Amazon parcel. Okay, so he is apparently come to live with them and her mother, played by Gossite Farahani, who I think is absolutely brilliant in everything. And she is a doctor dealing with patients who have this new disease. Meanwhile, at school, Alpha is shunned by her classmates because they now see her as an infection rick,

because she's got this Manky tattoo. So the film is told in a kind of strange, apparently non-linear fashion, which jumbles the order of events right down to the fact that there are various incarnations of Alpha at different ages who we see at points that are completely non-linear, sometimes in the same scene.

And as the time shifts increase, so does the air of dreaminess. There is a whole thing going on outside her apartment. There is a scaffolding and a storm that may be just happening in her head. Maybe there is actually scaffolding and a storm outside, but at some points,

the walls of the room start to close in. So we get this sense that a lot of the drama is happening inside the minds of the characters. The tone of the film is, and you remember the tone of Titan was very in your face. I mean, whether you liked it or not,

and I know you didn't, but I did, but it was very in your face. It was very sort of rocky, shocking. And, you know, when it won the palm door, it was a big headline thing. The tone of this is much more melancholy and mournful, although it is a body horror film and it has elements in it that some people will find Utre. But when I was watching Titan, I was put very much in mind of David Cronenberg's crash,

which famously did not get the palm door because the jury, Francis Ford Coppola, really, really took offense at that film. This, however, felt totally very similar to David Cronenberg's The Shrouds. I interviewed Cronenberg for this program about the Shrower. rounds. And that had had a hard time at Camber. That was very much a film about grief and mourning. And I think that this has a similar thing. So in Roar, DeCone was using cannibalism as a metaphor for sibling rivalry and a coming of age tale. And this is also a coming of age tale here, this strange marbling disease, which is never kind of really explained. I mean, a lot of people

have interpreted it as an allegory for AIDS or for COVID, particularly in terms of the AIDS, the HIV comparison, the way in which people are shunned, people are outcast, people are sort of, you know, are made to feel terrible and terrified of the disease. But I think that is part of it, but I don't think that's all of it. I think it's much broader than that. I think it is about outsiderdom. I think it is about suspiciousness and contagion and forgiveness. For one thing, Alpha is French speaking. Her family, our extended family, speak Burban. They're a North African family.

And there are scenes in which she is with her elderly relatives, and they're all speaking a language that she can't speak. And she's saying to her mom, mom, I don't understand what they're saying. And some of the best scenes are those family scenes, which give you a real sense of a community within a community, and Alpha feeling outside of both of those. There's also a thing about, I mean, maybe it's to do with racism, maybe it's to do with communities being ostracized. I mean, maybe it's to do with the way in which we ostracize addiction and we sort of push people to the sidelines.

It's also clearly about generational gaps because, as I said, there is this thing about alpha existing in this space between generations. The thing is, I think you can read it in a number of ways, and that's one of the things I like about it. Just in terms of the way it's done, I think some of it is brilliantly executed. There is a scene in a swimming pool in which Alpha's wound starts to, she wounds herself and she starts to bleed in the swimming pool and the blood starts to go into the and there is a shot that is literally straight out of jaws and it's just terrifically well done. The three lead performances are exceptional. It's shot really handsomely by Ruben Impans.

It's got a very good score by Jim Williams. And I know that when it played it can, it got a rough ride. And I see that the reviews of it have been, you know, have not been positive. I think it's because it's not the film that people expect. I think it is a much more melancholy, mournful, thoughtful film than people were expecting. I think you could argue that it bites off more than it can really chew. But I think it can, I mean, hats off to Julia de Kornow that this is what you do after making Titan, which is a big palm door winning success, you go, okay, I'm going to capitalize on that by making

a film that is clearly very personal. And for all its strange utre body horror moments, is really a film about mournfulness and isolation and alienation. And I think ultimately about forgiveness and acceptance. And I thought it was strangely beautiful. I know I'm in the minority. And I know some people really don't like it. But I really thought there was something in there. And I just remain very impressed at Julie DeConnor's career. Are you expecting me to like it? I think you'd like it more than you liked to turn, strangely enough. Okay. All right. We're going to be back in just a moment, unless you're a Vanguard Easter and so on. What are you going to be doing next, Mark? Well, coming up next, Simon, we've got a bunch of things. I mean, later on I'm going to be reviewing now.

you see me now, you don't, and we're going to be having the chart. But also, we are heading towards your interview with Edgar Wright. That's right. The guy from The Sandwich Shop, because his new movie is the remake of Running Man, and it's all on the way along with the laughter lift. Oh, good. Mark, are Black Friday and Cyber Monday stressful flashpoints that whip people into a spending frenzy or a good chance to get presents for Christmas at great prices?

A bit of both, I suppose. Either way, if you're an online shop experiencing your first festive rush this year, you want Shopify in and around your business this November. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the US. From household names to entrepreneurs will be participating in their first Black Friday slash Cyber Monday this year. Shopify's marketing tools will help push your brand to the forefront of the chaos. And helps them get the shop away.

This Black Friday, join the thousands of new entrepreneurs hearing Kaching for the first time with Shopify. Sign up for your free trial today at Shopify.co.com.uk slash take. That's Shopify.com.com.uk slash take. Go to Shopify.com.uk.U.K. slash take. And make this black Friday on to remember. Hey, take listeners, this is an advert from BetterHelp. Now, when it comes to wellness these days, don't you reckon it feels like there's advice for everything? Oh, you should do cold plunges. No, you should do gratitude journals.

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Okay, so here we go with the box office top 10. outside the chart, Anemone. This email from Samuel Barber, but probably not the American pose who wrote the Adagia for Strings. One would imagine as he's dead, but what a great name to have.

Plus, Samuel has never had that mentioned by anyone else. Dear Ray and Gem, the names of the lead characters, Sean Bean and Daniel Day Lewis, I just wanted to write in on the film Anemey starring the always excellent Daniel Day Lewis.

Despite some of the mixed reviews. I was excited for this film and I agree with Mark, also myself, Samuel, but hey, that's right. I think this is a fairly wonderful film with some genuinely great acting in cinematography. I wonder if perhaps it'll do better here in the UK than in the States, given the film's social and political commentary being very rooted in our history. But I think it may turn out to be an underrated piece of work by my favourite actor. You may well be right. People, I mean, there are big posters that I see every day for it, but it may be that it slips under the wire and people don't go and see it. And then they rediscover it in a couple of years ago, all right, why didn't I? Why did I go and see this? So you may well be right. Also, whether it's got a, it is very much a UK thing, but that idea of the army and regretting things that might have happened whilst you were serving in the army is a fairly universal topic. But I know, what do you think? Well, yes, I mean, Daniel DeLewis said at one point that, you know, that he'd made films about Ireland and saw the troubles from one side and this was sort of the other side of the story. And I think that's true, but it's also not important because I think that the central thing is much more archetypal than that. I think it's about brothers and fathers and sons and, as you say, and regret and legacy and dealing with the legacy of trauma. So I,

I don't, I mean, look, who knows why some films succeed and some films don't, the posters that are on the, on the underground in London, I think it's a really a resting poster with that extreme close up on Daniel Day Lewis's face and then the lettering written in that strange way. I mean, it's, it's a hard sell because it's a tough drama. There's no question about it at all. I mean, there's a, there's the first half an hour of it is basically wordless, you know, and you have to go with it. But I, I did. I mean, I've seen it a couple of times now, and I think its reputation will grow with time. I think it may well be something that people bump into and go, oh, why did I miss that when it came out? And the answer is, well, it's not got an exploding helicopter and a spaceship in it. And I think we mentioned this last week. You know, they could be soldiers from the Napoleonic Wars. Yes, precisely. They could be two American soldiers talking about what happened in Iraq. Yeah, exactly. It's not Northern Ireland is kind of there and very much, part of their story, but it's not so important that it couldn't, that kind of represents conflict,

basically. No, absolutely. So go and see it if you get a chance, because it is a very impressive piece of work. Number 10, chainsaw man hyphen the movie, colon, Rezi, Ark. Which has done very well. And as I said, I saw it and had no idea what was going on at all. And it is a perfect example of one of those films in which it works if you're up to speed. I was nowhere near up to speed at all. And I've still, I've seen the whole film and I have no idea what was going on. And that's number four in America. And speaking of things you might not be able to follow, a poor patrol Christmas.

Oh, no, I follow the poor patrol Christmas. Yeah, yeah, that made sense. It was like, oh yeah, it's that. And you loved every minute. I swear, is it number eight? Which I thought was fantastic. I think, you know, I swear is like one of the best films of the year. I've just realized, incidentally,

that when I'm saying a poor patrol Christmas and I saw it, I wasn't talking about poor patrol Christmas, I was talking about pets on a train. I saw and understood pets on a train. I haven't seen a poor patrol Christmas. I stand corrected. Right. It'll probably, what you said about it will probably be the same thing. Gabby's Doll House, the movie is at number seven. Saw Gabby's Doll House did sit there thinking, have no idea what's going on. But I like the bits with her because then she's there for the grown-up gags and then the other stuff when it's, you know, a twink on the left and a twink on the right and then we go down to cat's eyes and yeah there's a there's a there's a lot of confusion in your film reviewing at the moment i'm just being honest

yes absolutely you know it's but paup not poor patrol gabby's dollhouse is not for me but evidently it is for a certain audience and there are certain elements in it that are every now and then going to the grown-ups hey you need something to laugh at here's a joke about canana Reeves, which is quite funny. And then we just go back to the weird thing with a thing on the left and a thing on the right, and we all go down to cat's eyes and jump around in the house. And I'm going, OK. I haven't understood a word you just said it. Precisely. Number nine in America, number six in the UK, Springsteen, deliver me from nowhere. And this, I thought, would be another example of a film which would only make sense to a certain audience. If you're a man of my age 63 and you

grew up fiddling around with the Tiac Tascam, you know, four track, and then you see a movie in which basically Bruce Springsteen sit in a room for a great part of the film fiddling around with a Tiac Tascam four track and then wondering how he can get that master onto a record. I thought, well, this is made for me, but I'm not sure if it's going to work for anyone else. It has done better than I thought it was going to. And I do think it's a good film. I think the thing that you said when you came out of it was actually the definitive word, and it is he's not a rock biopic. It is a film about depression. More conversation about the hardware of that movie in take two.

Brilliant. Number five is die my love. It's number eight in America. Dear Soul Jacker, Part 1 and Soul Jagger Part 2. Longtime listener, sometime emergency mailer. That's Neil in Walthamstow. Okay. I saw Lynn Ramsey's abstract, poetic, fever dream of a film,

Die My Love last night, and I had to write in. I think it might be the best film of the year and one of my new favorite films of all time. For all the garlands that will be awarded to the performance, it is Ramsey's direction that is the star for me, her control of framing and composition, her choice of needle drops, and her restraint in her choices in the midst of such cinematic chaos, was so incredible that I found myself crying in the closing credits, not from any sadness in the story, but just from the wonder of being in the presence of such cinematic mastery. Mark's description of it as exhausting matches my own experience,

but I never found it overwrought or histrionic. Instead, Ramsey keeps the tension wound so tight, giving the audience fragments of emotional damage, but never the whole. I can't wait to see it again. Love the show, Steve, down with Nazis, and up with the superlative production team who make all of this happen. Thank you, Neil, in Walthamstow.

I mean, that's a great email. I'm so thrilled to hear that, you know, you were crying in the credits because of how good the film is. I mean, like I said, there is this, it is possible for people to say, oh, well, I don't go to the cinema because it's all just blockbusters and all the rest of it. In the cinema now, well, as of Friday,

you're going to be able to go and see Die My Love by Lynn Ramsey and Alpha by Julia DeCornat, both playing in cinemas at the same time. I mean, getting very, very different responses from the critics, but both, both, absolutely, in my list of the most exciting movies of the year. I mean, I love Lynn Ramsey. I just love her filmmaking, and I feel the same way as you did at the end of it. You just go, wow. I mean, as I said, I found it exhausting, but not in a bad way.

I found it exhausting because there was so much to respond to. And Jennifer Lawrence's performance is fantastic. Just to be clear, I haven't seen it, so I didn't say that. No, no, no, sorry. No, the email that said it. Oh, so you're agreeing with Neil? Yes, I beg your pardon. Sorry.

Also amongst the choices. Speaking as if to an email. Right. Bagonia is at number four here, number seven over there. I mean, I think it's my least favorite of Jorgos Lanthmos's films, but I still think that's a fairly high bar. And it, you know, I think it was film of the week when it came out. I think it's less successful than some of his other recent works.

But I think that it's, I mean, it's interesting. There's been a lot of people who've just been completely bamboozled and put off by the end of the film. And I think it's, I think it's probably one should take the end of the film with a pinch of salt or a pillar of salts, to be honest. But I, you know, I think that what Yorgos Lantemos is doing in this kind of ongoing project with Emma St. Stone is really interesting. This for me is my least favorite, but it's still a very interesting film. Regretting you is at number three. And then the thing is, everyone says, do you regret seeing it? And the answer is, no, I don't regret seeing it. I mean, it's rubbish. And I mean, it is preposterous rubbish. And it does have a scene in it in which two people overcome the death of people who were very

close to them by hilariously throwing eggs at a picture they don't like. And that was the point in which I lost all patients. But it is what it is. A new entry number two is the choral. And an email here from Christine, who just describes herself as Ultra. Okay. So we like.

Very good. Dear F sharp and G flat, in addition to the concept, in fact, Christine uses a word which I will define, which you may will know and use on a regular basis, but I don't, so I'm just explaining.

Can I say, well done for the musically literate F sharp and G flat, It's very good. It's very funny. In addition to the concept that you get from a film, what you bring to it. Yes. Can I further add the issue of when you bring it? As a former choir member, having sung some Elgar, not a great fan, I booked in to watch the choral on a Sunday afternoon at the Odeon, armed with an Earl Grey and a pistachio tiffin.

First time that's been mentioned for a long time. Okay, Mark's milk toast review meant low expectations. What does milk toast mean? M-I-L-Q-U-E toast. What does it mean? It means meek, mild or timid, and it comes from a cartoon. And there was a character who was called Casper Milk Toast, who was indeed meek, mild and timid. But I think I had to, you know, I looked it up because I had a general sense of what it meant, but milk-we-toasty is, anyway.

way. Mark's milk-toast review meant low expectations. In the event, I was in tears within minutes. Having attended the Remembrance Service that morning and watched my grandson carry the banner for his local squirrels troop, scouts for the under sevens, the themes of love, loss and music as therapy hit home. Yes, there were some scenes too contrived in Sackerin to be healthy. Think backlit, sunset, street scenes of people coming out of their houses to hear a concert. But overall, I think this film is a classic that deserves its time. That time being Remembrance Sunday afternoon with a cup of tea and a fancy of your choice, even a Battenberg. Keep up with good work. Radical centrist unite. Hello to Jason and down with those

who think war solves anything. So that, but that's interesting because, thank you, Christine, for that. I can imagine that that is precisely right. If you have been to a remembrance service in the morning, then go and see the cool rule in the afternoon, you're bringing an awful lot to that film. Yes, and I think that the film would play well under those circumstances. And I think, and I hate to say this, I don't think you mean milk toast. I think you mean lukewarm or tepid or, because my review was, you know, it goes down well with a cup of tea and a biscuit misses. And I think that that is what the general tenor of the film is, but I completely understand, and it's a very good point, about not just what, but when you bring it.

I just, I don't, I mean, maybe you do, maybe I'm incorrect, and believe me, I am the malaprop king of the world. I mean, I use words, I always used to think that putative meant growing, okay? And it doesn't, it means supposed it. And I once described somebody who's work I really liked as evidence of putative talent, meaning growing talent. and it didn't mean that.

It meant supposed alleged talent. So I don't think you mean milk toast. I think you mean lukewarm. And so I think what you're saying is that the lukewarm, tepid, you know, slightly half-hearted review. I guess they're both meek and mild. So there's a crossover.

I just think, I mean, no one uses that word in conversation, I don't think. No, but maybe I'm wrong. But I absolutely get your point that, yes, those are the perfect circumstances under which to see that film. And you're quite right.

It absolutely does back up the thing about it's what you bring to a film, but it's also when and where you bring it. The number one film here and the number one film over there is Predator, colon, badlands. Tim from Cambridge. Having watched this last night, I thought I would share my disappointment. From the entire movie being green screen and CGI to the continuing erosion of the age rating, this was very far from the original with Arnie fighting for survival against an Apex Predator and closer to finding your place in the world story trying to set a new path for the

Predator. I left the cinema expecting the next installment to be a PG and featured deck and his new clan protecting the Smurfs from the evil Gargamel. Disappointing, says Tim. Nathan says, second time writer, first letter went way over the top. Whoops. Anyway, I'm writing from Canada. Was disappointed to hear Mark's shrug towards Predator Badlands. Though I get it's not his cup of tea. Composer Sarah Sarakna did score some Assassin's Creed games, funnily enough. Had a great time watching this with my father, who felt starved of no-nonsense action films in an otherwise great year. There was a lot of happy father-son duos in the theatre, which was quite funny given the themes of the film. Personally felt it was a small step down from Killer of

Killers, a spectacular film that accidentally made the case that R-rated animation is the best bet for this franchise and is in my 2025 top five. That said, I enjoyed its twisted humour and visceral action. It felt more like a middle finger to Guardians of the Galaxy. not an homage. Still, though, hoping we'd get a continuation to prey and killer of killers and not just deck. Yeah, that's from Nathan. Yeah, I mean, like I said, my feeling was because you and I both enjoyed pray so much. And I love the fact that it was stripped down and it was, you know, it was a very different kind of film. This was, this is, there was so much CG in this, so much kind of green screen and so much wibbly wobbly, wobbly, gravity defying, leapy, leapy,

deepy stuff, which just disappointed me. I mean, as I said, the thing, it was, it was all right. I have critic colleagues who absolutely loved it and, you know, think I'm just being a killjoy, but I thought it was the very definition of, meh. Some of the more forthright views on Predator Badlands and indeed Mark's review will be featuring on hot takes and cold comfort, one of our sparkly new features in this week's Take Ultra, which is on Patreon, which will be live on Wednesday, as I think it's being marketed, a cheeky Wednesday lunchtime treat.

So it's having a cheeky nandoes and you can have a cheeky take ultra for our Patreon friends. More box office chat from October for the ultras as well in Take Ultra available on the Patreon page. And we'll be back when Mark utters these words about these films. What? Is that a cue? That's not in the script. No, when Mark talks about these films.

Oh, I see. When Mark talks about, now you see me, now you don't. Yes. And The Running Man, with our very special guest. Edgar, right. I mean, it's pretty straightforward stuff. It was like when Mark utters these words about these films. Over to you.

Anyway, I thought it was straightforward. Nation's top broadcaster. Apparently not. Yeah, Mark, you know what? What, Simon? I'm getting a little tired of the production team. I mean, no offense or anything, but I wanted to brainstorm. getting someone else to run the show.

Well, with Indeed-sponsored jobs, we could post and say we're looking for producers with three years of experience editing video and audio podcasts for a knowledgeable crowd that knows a thing or two about film. And have done slightly more than just edit a TikTok while soaking in the tub.

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Just go to Indeed.com slash Kermode Mayo right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash Kermode Mayo. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring. Do it the right way with Indeed. Well, this week's guest is my. My friend from the sandwich shop, Edgar Wright,

who also makes movies. You'll have seen quite a lot of them, and he's made a new one. It's called The Running Man. You'll hear my conversation with him after this. My eye for talent remains unrivaled. You, Mr. Richards, are what they used to refer to as a game changer. Now, listen, I shouldn't say this, but when the run begins, lay low with your own kind.

You'll last longer. And also, in case you missed it in your contract, every goon you kill went to a 10K bonus. And it's a hundo per hunter. I don't know how yet. But I'm going to fuck you up someday. That's the spirit. And that's a clip from The Running Man,

the new movie by the fabulous direct egg. All right, hello, Edgar. How are you? Hey, Simon. Nice to see you again. Did we choose that clip well? We don't know what the clip is. The clips are provided. Well, it's fantastic. Many people are just very excited to have a new Edgar Wright film.

Oh, thank you. That looks to be happy. It means something. And also, they kind of feel as though they know that they're going to be... Whatever you choose to do, people are going to be excited to watch it. That's very sweet. Thank you. How far away do we have to go for the start of this story in terms of your engagement with the running man?

A long way back. It feels like sort of like... As soon as soon as you say, I was 14 years old, some people were like, oh, God. But, no, I mean, I started reading Stephen King when I was probably like 12. I always think he was sort of like, too young. And well, you know what's interesting? I always think about that is that, and I, is that because I was a sort of horror fan, or I wanted to be a horror fan, I was definitely intrigued.

And I think the thing about Stephen King books is for, maybe if you're reading them when you're young, it's not the horror element that's like the sort of, it's all of the other real world stuff that's the real eye-opener. I think I felt like there's so much kind of grown-up of material that I read in Stephen King books and under his pseudonym Richard Backman as well. Because that was the name that he wrote under at the time. Well, they were like, yes.

And the Running Man was originally published under the pseudonym. So there were four novels. And then the fifth one, Thinner, is the one that got him rumbled. And so then they re-released the books under Stephen King. And that's when I read them. There was that compendium in the UK of the Backman books. Mine was the stand, that was the first one that I picked up like a second-hand copy

but once you've started a Stephen King book it's difficult to stop reading everything that he does and there's something remarkable about Stephen King he's probably on this podcast the most talked about writer bar none and in terms of his stories making their way either onto the small screen or the big screen I don't think there's anyone else I mean, this year alone, we've done the life of Chuck, the long run, and so on. Sorry, the long walk, big pardon, confusing it with your running.

That's eventually going to be a super cut of the two movies. Okay. They'll start with the long walk and they'll build into the running man. And then the life of Chuck comes in at the end of the world. And the monkey as well? You'll be missed that one? We can keep on adding these titles in. So what is, can you tie in what hooked you in as a 10-year-old?

To the egg right making a movie. Now, what is it about the Stephen King story that is still hooking us in now? Well, I think in terms of, I mean, you know, in terms of the amount of movies this year, it also speaks to how diverse he is as a writer. So obviously, Life of Chuck is very different from the monkey and very different from the Running Man. And The Long Walk and The Running Man, even though they're both by Richard Backman, and they both are about dystopian game shows, also two very different films. I actually think it speaks to the breadth of his work.

I mean, I read somewhere, and I believe this is true, that he's the second most adapted author for the screen after Shakespeare. That's pretty good, isn't it? And then my connection, I mean, I read The Running Man when I was 14, and I read it before I saw the 1987 film adaptation with Donald Schwarzenegger, which is a very different beast to the book. And so even as a teenager watching that movie, even though I enjoyed it,

I was like, huh, this isn't like the book at all. And then that stuck in my head because I'm sure you do this as well that when you read a book, you just visualize it. You've sort of made the movie in your head.

And then when you see the other adaptation, it's not the movie that you had in your head. And I guess like this year, I finally got to make the movie that was in my head when I read the book, you know? So who is the running man? The running man is Ben Richards, played by Glenn Powell. And this is the other key thing about the original book and our adaptation is he's not an existing sort of action hero.

Like he is an out-of-work dad. The key thing to this is we really, something that's from the novel is like he is a man that's coming off the street to go to the network building and compete on one of their cruel game shows. Crucially, he doesn't want to do the running man. He wants to be one of the other ones and risk injury but not death. But he's an out-of-work dad. He's been blacklisted. He needs to provide for his family. His daughter is sick.

And so out of desperation, he takes the long walk to the network building to compete. But gets more than he bargained for. Dot, dot, dot. Yes. And did you know, was it in the back of your mind, the fact that the book, the original book, is set in the year 2025 as a dystopian kind of scary year to think about?

Was that part of the reason you've done this? No, it was sort of a coincidence. That's some coincidence. No, I mean, I wasn't like the sort of... I mean, what's interesting is like, I've been working on it since 2021. About four years ago, one of the producer Simon Kimberg emailed me,

knowing that I had an interest. I think I'd put it out in the ether in interviews that I had an interest in. It said, would you like to do a new actor? of the running man, I was like, yes. You know, this is something I've thought about for a long time. It didn't really start gaining momentum until 2024 because there were the production strikes in 2023.

And so, Mike Island, who was the former head of Paramount, said, at the start of 2024, he sort of like kind of like, basically kind of clapped his hands and said, why aren't we making the running man? We could have this, we could be making it this year and have it out by the end of 2025. Now, he wasn't saying that because the book was set. I was the one who pointed it out later. Hey, you know, the book is set in 2025. So it is sort of a happy coincidence.

It's quite a tight schedule. It's definitely, I mean, I feel like I've set a terrible precedent to myself by turning this around in a year. However, I mean, I'm very happy that it's out in 2025. If they'd have said at some point, oh, you need a bit more time. We're going to bump it into 26. I'd be, no. Because you know the cover of the 1982 book, the first paperback?

Do you know what the logline says? I don't. Welcome to the year 2025, where the best men don't run for president. They run for their lives, the running man, Richard Backman. Wow. Almost two on the nose. Yes. And speaking of which, you know, in the film we see an authoritarian America where the gap

between the rich and the poor is incredible. And we see early on people queuing for medicine. That seems to be the currency. No one can get the right meds. I mean, I was exhilarated by the film, but I was pretty depressed when I came out of it, which was perhaps the right reaction. Well, I mean, what's crazy about it is that the book was published in 1982,

but he wrote it in 1972, and he couldn't get it published initially. This is pre-carry, isn't it? Pre-carry. When he was a struggling writer, he actually said to me, I asked him about it, and he said something that really stuck with me. he said it was a it was a time when our kids were eating better than we were you know him and his wife was sort of struggling and he sent the running man to a publisher and they said we don't do dystopian fiction and he's like wait isn't 1984 one of the most celebrated novels all the time but the thing that's interesting about the book is that it's very very prescient about a lot of things in media and technology but what's also alarming maybe depressing is how how little has changed but his his prediction of 2025 is like sort of very close to the bone but then also in making this film and

you know it is like hopefully an entertaining kind of action thriller but also hopefully gives you something to chew on as well and I feel like it's the the best of genre fiction and sort of genre movies rather but both is to sort of hold a fun house mirror up to reality so and that I hope is what we've done. But there are a lot of real-life angry men like the way Glenn Powell plays it in this film. Yeah, and that was something that was really key. They might vote for Trump, they might vote for Mendami,

but they're angry and they're young and they're fed up. Yeah, and they, people feel like the system is rigged against them. I mean, and so there was a key element to the character, and it's all there in the book. And it's also the thing that he has a lot of righteous anger in him because when he tries to do the right thing in life, he's a man who stands up to bullies and tells people when to go when they deserve it. But in this cruel society, you're punished for that. So he's kind of been penalized and held back. So he has a lot of kind of like sort of frustration and anger in him.

And, you know, like I said, it's righteous anger. But at the same time, that makes him, unfortunately, the prime candidate to be on the running man. What's the box that, what was the Stephen King tick box like? What, did he have to say yes to you? Did he have to say yes to the screenplay? How does that work? Luckily, and I, you know, very, you know, kind of, as he's a hero of mine, very sort of fortunate that he's, he's, he's liked my movie since Sean in the dead. He actually gave us a press quote for Shore in the Dead, which as a fan, having that kind of

Paul quote on the poster, I think me and Simon sort of looked at it for quite a few minutes in silence. It's like, wow, okay. And he says of this film, die hard for our time. I know. Well, to answer your question, he, I had been in correspondence with him anyway. We, over the years, we sort of started emailing each other and mostly, like, talk to him about music. And he's a big rock music fan and it became this tradition that I would send him like a new rock album on his birthday so send him like a band that he might not be previously aware of like king gizzard and the lizard wizard but when I started working on the movie I didn't want to talk to him about even though he would have been aware that I was working on it I didn't want to talk to him about it until

it was closer to it actually happening because I didn't want to be the boy who cried wolf and the thought of talking to him about it and engaging with him about the adaptation and then it not happening would have been so heartbreaking. So very late in the day, I wrote this email where I was like, as I'm sure you are already aware, I've been working on the running man for a couple of years. So to answer your question, yes, he does sign off on the adaptation. And obviously with this, knowing that he had some issues with the previous one, and in fact, didn't put his name on the previous one, you know, it's very kind of nerve-wracking, handing in your homework to the world's most famous English teacher. So me and Michael McCall, my co-writer, had a very sweaty

weekend whilst we're waiting for him to respond and then he started sort of screencapping bits from the script that he was really liking and it was like yeah and just saying like writing back yes exactly great great and and so he loved it so that's that and then you love the film as well so I kind of feel whenever happens to the movie I'm I'm happy that Stephen King loves it die hard for our time that's you know as a strap line that's pretty good and I think the other person who needed to sign or have to agree to a part of it is Arnie Schwarzman yes I mean, not on the script or the movie, but we thought, obviously, this is much closer to the Stephen King novel, but we thought it would be nice to have a nod to Arnold.

And so there's a little... Because he, of course, was the original right now. Yeah, he's Ben Richards in the 1987 version, a very different Ben Richards. So we have a little nod to him in the form of, like, his faces on the currency. In our all turn at 2025, they changed the rules, and people born outside the United States could become president. So that is Arnold Schwarzenegger on the back notes. But of course, he had to give photo approval.

So he had to go to write to him. And then closer to the shoot, me and Glenn, Glenn knew Arnold a little bit. He'd been in a film with him, his good friends with his son, Patrick. And we're thinking, maybe we should call him. Maybe it would be the nice thing, the classy thing to do. So we spoke to him like a couple of days before we started filming. And I said to Glenn, we've got to do it before you start. You can't retroactively get somebody's blessing.

So we did have a Zoom call with him, like a couple of days before we started shooting, which was amazing. Well, I think you're going to have another big hit on your hands. Edgar, what are you planning next? Sleeping? I mean, given that we literally only finished this like a couple of weeks ago and only started filming properly like a year ago. So napping. I know that's not a hot show. No, it's not really.

It's not going to be on deadline. No. Final question. Are you quite good at stepping away? Do you know when to go, okay, there's nothing else I can do here? Or are you a fiddler? Just change that. Tweet that bit.

I think, yeah. I mean, hopefully, in my older age, I think, hopefully I'm getting better at it. It's like, we've made the movie. We did the best movie we possibly can and just, like, sort of get it out into the world. And I'm very proud of it. And also just, I know you're really. a Stephen King fan as well. So just the idea of like actually finally making a Stephen King adaptation has just been a thrill. Yes. Die hard for our time indeed. You keep saying. I love it.

Eager, thanks very much. Thanks, Simon. It's so good to see you. And not queuing up behind you for a pack of the crisps. He's always good company. You had a good chat with him on one of your on stages. He's a good salesman as well, isn't he? He knows how to talk about a film. He talks a good film and conveniently he makes a good film as well which is uh which is always a good thing so um i think that both well i don't know because i haven't actually talked you about this but i think we may become very much the same page so look running man as you've said in the thing adaptation of a richard backman book published in the 80s but written in the 1970s and it is extraordinary that there's this and then there's the long walk all all of this stuff happening in

the movies at the moment looking terribly prescient as with the long walk this is a dystopian future fantasy about a deadly game first filmed in the 80s with Paul Michael Glazer directing Arnold Schwarzenegger, which was very, very different in tone. This is much, much closer to the book. As you've said, the original story set in 2025, imagine the world in which America has become a totalitarian state in which the gap between the rich and the poor is bigger than ever. There's no Medicare or medicine.

Everything is ruled over by an evil broadcast network that keeps the population downtrodden by inventing enemies for them to hate, feeding them lies and propaganda, and pumping them with mind-numbing reality shows in which ordinary people are humiliated for entertainment. So it's good to see Edgar making another documentary after the Spiles Brothers. Very good. Thank you very much. It was a long walk up the garden path. It was. Thank you for that. As he said there, it's also an entertaining action thriller that will give you something to chew on. I love the phrase that he used in that interview that it's the purpose of this kind of art

to hold a fun house mirror up to reality. I thought that was a really great phrase. And as you've said many times, and I think we should keep saying it, Stephen, King called it die hard for our time. So Glenn Powell is Ben, who's a working man with anger issues, keeps getting fired for insubordination. He's not an action hero, but Edgar said in that interview, he's not an action hero. He's an out-of-work dad. Yeah, but for an out-of-work dad, he looks amazing in a towel. He's pumped. I mean, I'm sorry, the towel scene was like, can we just let this go on a little bit longer with this teeny tiny towel so that everyone can see how amazing I look in a towel. I guess it's a nod to Arnie. Can you? I guess it's a nod to Arnie.

Because he isn't Arnie. He doesn't look as though he spent most of his life trying to be Mr. Universe. But he does look amazing. In a towel, in a very small towel. We all look good in a small towel. So he and his partner have got a sick child who needs meds to get the money. He tries out for the most deadly game show, The Running Man. Actually, he doesn't want to do the Running Man.

He wants to do something else. And his partner says, don't do the Running Man. But that he ends up being talked into. doing the running man. And if the contestants are chosen, they have to stay alive for 30 days running away from the network's hit men, spied upon by the public at large. They must post a videotape every day. As I said, he didn't want to do this, but Josh Brolin's wall-toothed television executive and what teeth they are. There's a starring role for those teeth. Talks him into it, recognizing that his anger issues make him incredibly watchable. And then out in the world,

he meets up with various rebel elements and try, to alert the public to the fact that the game is basically fixed in the same way that sort of James Kahn's character kind of did in Rollerball, which is adapted from a short story called Rollerball murder. But the network changes his words. They changes speeches and paint him and the other contestants as vicious criminals. So, I mean, obviously, Rollable is the kind of urtext behind an awful lot of this. And in the first film adaptation of Running Man, it kind of played out much more in that arena setting. The thing with this is it goes out into this dizzying array of locations

in this kind of scuzzy, blade-runnery, used future retro world. The script is by Edgar and Michael McCall with whom he worked on Scott Pilgrim, and also this reunites him with Michael Serra, who, of course, Scott Pilgrim. And I think I'm right in saying that it's Edgar Wright's biggest project. I mean, Scott Pilgrim was pretty huge. cost more than that. I mean, I think this cost around 100 million, and it looks like it costs way more than that, because it really does look great. So King wrote Running Man originally, apparently in 10 days, and he said it's a book written. Yeah, I know. Tell me about it. He said,

it's a book written by a young man who was angry, energetic, and infatuated with the art and craft of writing. Hence the propulsive energy of the book. And I think that this does catch that sense of propulsive energy. I mean, the film does romp from one set piece to the next. I think Glenn Powell is charismatically unhinged. I think Brolin is slime incarnate with those teeth. And I think they're a great double act. And I think the tone of the whole thing slithers between, you know, the dystopian and the series, something to chew on. The action pack, their action set pieces, and as we know from Baby Driver. And actually, to be honest with you, also from last night in Soho, in which, you know, choreographed action dancing is like a really,

really big thing. And there's also this kind of comedic element. I mean, the sequence with Michael Serra has got this sort of this whole sequence in it, which is basically a tribute to home alone. I mean, I think Edgar said, Home Alone and Straw Dogs, which are the two things that kind of even are often mentioned together. Strangely enough, it rains in the kind of ticks of of Edgar Wright's filmmaking, the kind of the swipes, the swishes, there's less of that. There's much more of a kind of, okay, we're making a linear action movie and we're doing it in a way which is sinewy and, you know, the camera, there's a lot of camera moves and everything is choreograph, but it's, it's leaning much less on the classic Edgar Wright tropes than

some of his previous feet, some of his previous films. There's lots of very sharp needle drops, but I do think it's worth saying that credit is due to Stephen Price, who's the composer, who obviously did Gravity, I think you won an Oscar for Gravity, who did all the music as well for the games within the games, you know, when they turn on the television and there are those game shows and there's that kind of plastic reality thing going on, and that Stephen Price's stuff. So, I mean, it's a romp. I saw it in normal projection, but I also saw it projected in IMAX, so I've seen it twice. But crucially, as with the long walk, there is something of substance going on there.

And I think that that's why when I said, you know, it's an action movie, but it gives you something to show, and that's exactly what it is. I think it confirms Stephen King as the great foreseer of his age. I mean, he really did, what's that phrase? You know, I've seen the future and it doesn't work. And it's amazing when you look at what Stephen King set in motion back then and how well that maps up with the hideous dystopian world

we're living at the moment, particularly in relation to America. It's interesting that Edgar is kind of downplaying the politics when you're talking about the film. But I think they are in there. And I think if you listen back to the interview, you can hear the deflection. Yes. Because I bring up the kind of American anger, rich and poor, authoritarian state. He's not having any of that. Well, I think he's not having it.

He's not biting. But I think it is there. Oh, sure. No, absolutely. And what's that phrase, you know, trust the tale, not the teller? And I think this is a really faithful, it's easy to see why Stephen King likes this, it's a really faithful adaptation. I mean, there are some changes, really faithful adaptation of the book and the tone of the book. And I think Edgar is always an exciting director to watch. And like I said,

I've watched the film twice now, and both normal and in IMAX. And it is an enjoyable action romp, but it has got substance, dystopian substance. And as somebody who saw, rollable when they were too young and it stayed with them forever. This feels to me like it's in that tradition and it's a thumbs up from me. And just because it's one of the things that I do, can you explain what an er text is? Yes, so a sort of a text from which other texts are derived, an origin text, a kind of a, actually didn't we once have this conversation? You actually looked up exactly what it did mean because it's German, right? And it's U-R, yes?

I believe, yeah, isn't there an H in there? I think it means like the kind of, you know, the, what is it, without which not? I always get that wrong, Sinaquanon and Naples Ultra. Sinaquanon is without which not, and Naples Ultra is... Guess who's written a novel called Er. Go on. Steen King. No.

Okay, so Ertex literally means... Er. It's the ancient city state in southern Mesopotamia. There's an Er Group, Italian Isotteracist Association. It's the lodestone. It's the thing from which other things are derived. I thought there was an H in it. Ertex.

It is. It's U-H-R. No, it's not. It's U-R-T-E-X. Two people are. No, you're right. You're absolutely right. Okay.

And what's the definition? An original or the earliest version of a text to which later versions can be compared. But I'm still not sure why it's er. Ah. Uh. No, not our. And our text is something you put on the sitting. That's right.

Not to be confused with the letters. Very good. And that is a joke from the 1970s that no one will understand. Of course. Once you've seen it, let us know. Correspondence at klovenomere.com adds in a minute, Mark. But first, I mean, we're already. We're already.

rolling in the aisles. You're going to find it very hard to top the art text. Get into the laughter lift. Here we go. Well, hey, Mark, do you know my friend Tim? Yes. No. Well, he's a real nerd, and he's just got a PhD

on the history of palindromes. We now call him Dr. Awkwood, which works when it's written down. Is Dr. Awkward a palindrome? Mm-hmm. Is it? Otherwise, it wouldn't be funny. Do you want to write it down?

Carry on and I'll try. No, because if you're writing things there, you won't appreciate the humor of the other jokes. Doctor? No, DR. Huh? Oh, I see Doctor or... I see, fine, I find. That works.

Okay, okay. Okay. I went to a bootfare at the weekend, Mark. I'm a real radio geek, as you know. So I was very excited when I saw a sign that said, radio for sale, 50p, please note, volume stuck on full. And I thought, well, I can't turn that down. more straightforward

had a bit of a dietary mishap during game night Mark I accidentally swallowed a whole box of Scrabble tiles Go on The next time I go to the loo It could spell disaster There are other words that

Also fit that Anyway thanks very much What's up after the break Now you see me Now you don't After this Okay, let's carry on with the movie which Mark keeps talking about,

which is now you see me, colon, now you don't. It's not now you see me too. Is this completely different? Nothing to do with anything that's been in the past. No, well look, this is basically the thing that no one was asking for, a belated sequel to a film that no one remembers, that is itself a sequel to a film that frankly I preferred to feel. get. So, 2013, now you see me, Louis Latterier, in which four magicians, street hustlers,

led by Jesse Eisenberg, are brought together by, is it the eye, and Mark Ruffalo turns them into the four horsemen, who was sort of Robin Hood magicians, social disruptors. I called the film The Prestige for Stupid People, and I stand by that. 2015, now you see me too. Now I had completely forgotten that this film existed and that I had reviewed it. Ile Fish replaced by Lizzie Kaplan, super complicated plot. Everything is solved by magical explanation. And I said at the time, I could listen to Morgan Freeman reading the phone book,

which is good because that's pretty much what he does here. And I then completely forgot the film. So when I came to see, now you see me, now you don't, Ribbon Fleischer of Zombie Land fame, in which all the original cast are back, including Dave Franco, whose character has, his superpower is he's able to throw cards, which is a bit like, you know, Hawkeye, whose superpower is, he's got a bow and arrow.

Throwing cards, throwing cards. Throws cards at people. Yeah. Oh, you know, I've got a pack of cards here. Yeah, go on, throw a card. Right, I've got the eight to hearts. Okay, throw it. Okay, ready?

Yeah, yeah. Steps back. Yeah, oh, I'm a baddie with a machine gun, but now I'm completely incapacitated because Dave Franco threw a card at me. Anyway, there are also three new members, Justice Smith, who's not related to Will Smith, Dominic, Cessor, Ariane Greenblatt, they start out as a kind of horseman tribute act,

rip-off doing a thing that they're pretending to be the horsemen, but they are then gathered together by more, magic playing cards in order to form a supergroup who must go up against Rosamond Pike's fiendish South African diamond mine owner. Okay? How do we know she's fiendish? Because she's got a really fiendish South African accent and a really big diamond which the four horsemen, but there will be more, are about to ployne. Here's a clip. My name is Jay Daniel Atlas. You may remember me as your personal favorite of the four horsemen of magic. Now watch closely as I make the famous heart diamond appear on my palm. Gee whiz, he must be as starved for attention as

Greenpeace here. Rest assured that the diamond is completely safe. Is it? Now a wise man once told me, in the mirror, in fact, never assume you're the smartest person in the room. Prove it. Be my guest. All right, well let's see if we can get that case open. Uh, Aberrey, Cadabra. Huh. Nope. Al-A-Cazam. Wait. Open Sesame.

Oh. Now, I know I'm not very good at accents, but that, be my gist, is really, sorry, Ms. Pike, but that's really not quite good enough. Well, she does that all the way through the film. So, the plot, which goes from the preposterous to the, oh, for heaven. sake. It's not so much, you know, abracadabra, razzle-dazzle. It's just oogabougar, flim, flannel. It's got a really starry cast, but they all deliver this ropey script filled with huge screeds of basil expositioning in a manner which Roger Ebert once described the movie. And he said,

to describe the cast as cardboard would be to insult a useful packing material. And in the case of this, doesn't matter who the cast are, they all look like they're reading off cue cards. They all look like they have never seen this script ever before, and they are slightly embarrassed to be doing it. Also, there are things in the plot that Scooby-Doo himself will go, I'm sorry, no, I'm not doing that. That's absolutely, you can't, no. So the cast clearly don't believe any of it. They clearly don't care. They are clearly picking up the check. Rosamond Pike is, at least invested in really giving it some wellie in in the every single you know everything's turned up to 11 department um reckless abandon yes but do we ever believe in it not at all morgan freeman

morgan freeman turns up i mean mom from i said i'd be know listen to him reading the phone book turns up apparently to collect the check he just looks tired and like i don't i don't need to be doing this so he's not president because he's every no he's not president it's usually president No, it's a film in which Morgan Freeman is not president. Okay. The other thing is that the magic tricks are absolute rubbish. And one of the problems with the Now You See Me thing is magic tricks done in the real world are exciting.

But magic tricks done in the cinema. It's like, okay, there's a film. And the thing is, they're all four on stage and they all four appear to disappear. You go, fine, it's a film. I don't care. And it's, you know, if you did that in front of me in my front room, fine. In fact, as I said when I reviewed now, you see me too. One of the things that blew that film was the way they were.

trying to excite the journalist was before the film started, they had people moving amongst the crowd doing close magic, right? Close magic's really interesting because it's like people doing card tricks right in front of you. And then you sit down and watch a film, which a bunch of stuff happens on a film, you go, I don't care, that's not interesting. Also, why do you need magicians to do this? We have to get this diamond and do the thing. Oh, I know. Let's get the magicians because they can do it with the power of their magic. It's like that thing in Team America, World Police, where you must solve the problems of the world with your acting. Why is any of this happening? In what world are now? People say, oh, well, it's not meant to be realistic. It's meant to be like an oceansy

heist movie. Yeah, fine. But the Oceansy Heist movies didn't have bits in it. Somebody said, well, we've only got 24 hours to do this and we'll have to do it, you know, exactly right. And the next thing is they've built entire underground bunkers and they're setting up tricks. you think, sorry, who, when, how, did, and what? And really? And so I'm sitting there, I'm literally while I'm watching the film. I can feel my IQ, which was never high to begin with, being depressed. I can feel myself getting thicker and thicker as I'm watching the film, because it's just bludgeoning you into submission, we're going, look, lots of stuff is happening, and lots of people who you kind of know vaguely, I do it, and they're saying magically things. And then, and then,

Every now and then they stop and do the quip about, you know, well, that just happened. And then somebody comes and explains the plot. And then there's another bit and they go to some other ludicrous location. And then they're all in a box of sand. And I'm just thinking, okay, this is the stupidest film I have seen in a long time. And even as somebody who's not very bright, I felt that my intelligence was being insulted by it. And it'll probably find an audience. Do you think?

Yes. I do. I think it will. And I think that makes me want to go and beat my face against a wall. We've got a pack of cards here. Here's what they should have. Now you see me, but frankly, you'll wish you hadn't. Okay, that's the next one. Packer cards. I'm trying to think if there's a card trick I could do to you being there and me being here,

and I just realized that there probably isn't. because I was trying to force a card then that would I couldn't do that nope so I'm going to put them away I'll do a card trick okay this is a card trick

designed to prove that I'm cleverer than you okay okay pick a card any card okay what is it

it's the king of diamonds no wrong no it was yeah but that's the wrong card see I'm cleverer than you that's the level of the magic

in now you see me now you don't right so film of the week possibly then i think okay it's very good and of course i should say you know well i'm listening to that thinking because i presented a show called the best of magic on you did you did you did you did something like that you know i got dropped after the first series but um the close up there is close up magic is without doubt the best kind of magic exactly it is saying. There was a guy called Juan Tamarise who performed. And to be honest, magic on television is a bit like fireworks on television. It sort of doesn't work because it's television. The whole point is

it has to be done in front of you. And a close-up magician who is brilliant is the most extraordinary talent. Yes. It's genuinely thrilling. And I'll tell you the story, which I've told before. At my 40th birthday party, we had a close magic musician and Ken Russell was at the party. and Ken came up to me and he said, Mark, the magician, I said, yes, he said, you have to get rid of him. And I said, why? He said, because he's actually doing magic. And I said, no, it's great, isn't it? He said, no, no, no, no, it's actually magic. You can't have him on the hat. You have to get rid. He's actually doing magic. Because, okay, well, if you have a particular mindset, because I, and I'm sure, and I've mentioned this before,

So we're in one of the interminable waiting bits filming Best of Magic because there's a lot of set up for a lot of the big stunts, right? And there's a live audience of about two or three hundred people and I'm standing sort of just to the side of the audience and this woman beckons me over and I go over and she leans in and I lean in and she says, you know you're doing the devil's work. So, you know, I was thinking, well, why are you, if that's your view of, let's not call it magic,

let's call it conjuring you know it's not it isn't magic it isn't magic the problem is the word magic it's just conjuring anyway so she wasn't having any of it and i left her alone but anyway how many series did you do that show for is it on youtube can i find it uh i don't know i i was like i said i was dropped after the first series so um i was replaced by a magician which when you think about it makes a lot of sense called arthur brocetti and that was uh anyway so that's the end of take one. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production this week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh, Heather and Dom, the redactor Simon Paul. And if you're not following the pod already, please do so wherever you get your podcast. Our Christmas

show, live thing is something which you all have to be at, because if you're not there, when we take the register, it will be very disappointing. And we'll have to come and visit you. at www. fain.com.ukuk slash kermode-hyphen-Mayo. Lots of punctuation. It's all in the show notes, but www.fane.coma-u-k slash kerbid-a-moh. It would be great to see you.

Come and join us on Patreon. All the good stuff is happening there. Mark? Mark. Yeah. What is your film of the week, please? Keep on the running, man. Excellent.

Very good. Thank you very much. Take two has landed alongside this wonderful podcast. Thank you for listening.