Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Emerald Fennell, The Automat, Anatomy Of A Fall & Dream Scenario

Episode Date: November 10, 2023

Simon sits down with actor-writer-director Emerald Fennell to discuss her new, star-studded, class-skewering, psychological thriller ‘Saltburn’, which sees an Oxford scholarship student drawn into the world of a charming aristocrat when he invites him to his family’s sprawling country estate.   Mark reviews ‘The Automat’, a Mel Brooks-fronted documentary centered on the vending machine popularised in the 20th Century that offered fresh cooked meals in a commissary-style eatery; ‘Anatomy of a Fall’, the Palme d’Or winning crime thriller about the trial of a woman accused of murdering her husband in their remote chalet in the French Alps; ‘Dream Scenario’, a surreal comedy about a hapless family man, played by Nicolas Cage, who finds his life upended when millions of strangers start seeing him in their dreams.   Plus, Mark and Simon take us through the Box Office Top 10 and the film events worth catching in this week’s What’s On.     Time Codes (relevant only for the Vanguard - who are ad-free!):  09:15 The Automat Review  20:48 Box Office Top Ten   36:56 Emerald Fennell Interview  52:35 Laughter Lift  55:18 Anatomy of a Fall Review  01:03:38 Dream Scenario Review  01:12:06 What's On  You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo    EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee!  A Sony Music Entertainment production.     Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts    To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, esteemed podcast listeners, Simon Mayer. A Mark Kermode here. I'm excited to let you know that the new season of the Crown and the Crown, the official podcast, returns on 16th of November to accompany the sixth and final season of the Netflix epic Royal Drama Series. Very exciting, especially because SuperSarbon friend of the show Edith Bowman hosts this one.

Indeed, Edith will take you behind the scenes. You can also catch up with the story so far by searching the Crown, the official podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe now and get the new series of the crown, the official podcast, first on November the 16th. 1777. I've got an idea. Okay, this came from inspired by a New York Times podcast, which

is a think called matter of opinion. And it's three people giving their opinion about the news. Okay. And they ended up, so it's sort of vaguely one that would directly plugged into the American electoral cycle. But they far more interestingly, they ended up playing fantasy presidential elections. But they were more interestingly, they ended up playing fantasy presidential elections, but they were talking about candidates, some of whom we knew and some of whom we didn't. You know, if the current crowd, none of them can stand which Republican and which Democrat, right? Fine. So that's their specialist derrick. So our version of that is actors who have played, who've played the role of president of the United States fictional or actual.

Okay. And a fantasy runoff, you can choose, so two people against each other, alive or dead, don't worry about the political matchup or anything, but I want to, oh, it could just be, it could be anyone. Two actors who've played the president,

either on television or on film. Okay, so to run off, so are we are we saying the actors or are we saying the president that they they tried the actors? Okay, has Tom Hanks played the president ever? I don't think he has. Damn, I know that's that's that's a week. Very annoying, isn't it? So I mean, it's obviously my obviously you'd normally would do then go for Martin Sheen, President Bartlett, and in fact, in the West Wing, I think in the second series, he has a runoff against the Republican who's played by Alan Alder, to my favorite actors in the world there.

So, it has to be kind of better than Martin Sheen against Alan Alder. Well, what about Martin Sheen in the West Wing against Martin Sheen in the dead zone? Okay. Yes. So that would be an easy choice. The one who wants to start a nuclear war and the one who doesn't. Okay. Also, with Martin Sheen and Aaron Salkin on our minds, is the Michael Douglas plays the American president in the Oh, in an American president with Martin Sheen as his kind of chief of staff. Saying that's Mary. She's 52 today. That's John. That's just got married. So Michael Douglas gets mind she knows this is all very bloke, but that wouldn't be bad. Well, it would certainly be better than where we are. Yeah.

So I've also had a good game. How about an all British version? Ken Branagh, who's played, because I look this up, oh, I can't remember. Gary, against Gary Oldman. Gary Oldman, okay. So Ken Branagh played Boris. Yeah, but he also played an American present.

I forget which one he's playing. Okay, so because Gary Oldman played. Gary Oldman played was in his dream. Gary Oldman, plays. Okay, so because Gary Oldman played... How about Gary Oldman played was he... He was in the top and high. Okay, what about Daniel Day Lewis? Yes, because against Ken Branagh or... Or, Jared Harris. He's not even the best Jared in the list.

No, he was. Because he was Eulicee's Eskran in Lincoln. So why don't we have... Jared Harris. You've got too much free time on your hands. Jared Harris against Daniel Day Lewis, both presidents in the same movie. Okay. But I just thought if you were having to do it, I mean, I'm sorry, I'm still sticking

with Martin Sheen in West Wing versus Martin Sheen in the Dead Zone, because I think that's funny. How about... And there's no such thing as a cheap laugh. How about John Travolta? Primary colors. Oh, primary colors course, because he's playing, he's doing Clinton, isn't it?

He probably, he imagined that. That would be, this would be so much better. Well, do you remember that when John Travolta was introducing a Dean of Manzell at the Oscars, and he went, and now please welcome to the stage, the fabulous do you remember that because he swallowed it because he was quite sure he literally had no idea had absolutely no idea and but of course you know nowadays presidential candidate getting up and

well I was we were just excited we're going to to be talking about Barry Kiegan in a bit because Emerald Finals new movie involves Mr. Kiegan. So very keen. Famously. So I was watching the late late show in which is the Irish. Yeah, it's a good problem. I was thinking, okay, I'm going to watching being introduced because then this will definitely tell me precisely how to get it right, even though you've told me how to get it right. Well, I asked him. He said, would you welcome please a special guest, Barry? How long? Anyway, what are you reviewing later?

I'm going to be reviewing a lovely little film called The Automat, very shortly, Anatomy of a Fall, which is the Palm Door winner from Justin Tray and Dream scenario, which is the new movie starring Nick Cage, don't call me cave. Also Emerald Finale is going to be talking about her new movie. She's going to be with you very, very short films. Which I haven't seen, but you have. Correct. Very brief one sentence.

Weight and sea. Very good. Okay, well, you know, dark, very dark. Anyway, also on Extra Takes, which has landed alongside this, in Grand in Fantastic Land, also on extra takes, which has landed alongside this in grand, in fantastic land right alongside this particular, so this podcast has landed here and take to has landed just over there. What are you going to be reviewing in that one? In that one, I'm going to be reviewing some other films. No, that's fine. That's fine. Just remind me because I've

not gotten a man, I've got a man, which've forgot. Give me piss. And give me pissy. Okay. Also, technically, you decide. Thanks for all the help in the control room. It's a word of mouth. That was great. On a podcast. Pokeface.

What is he doing? Okay. Like literally nothing. Literally nothing. Battleships. Where's Gaines and you can play on the cheered with cards. Anyway. Pokeface.

Yes. because you've watched like, oh yes, a thousand episodes. I was meant to watch two and I've watched five. Potentious moire is currently marked 22 against mark 19. He's full of resentment, obviously. And one frame back is inspired by the automatic, you're about to the review of that. We're talking about top food documentaries. Good Apple podcast to access everything. Or extra takes if you haven't got a fruit based device. If you're already a van goodies to Mark always says. We think ice cream all the way says. It either is very cute. Tatti in Barcelona. Tatti. Hello.

Dear half and half. Last week's interview with Gabriel Bern was erudite. In fact, erudite, intellectually stimulating and full of profound insight. It was. And I am so genuinely sorry to be writing to call him up on a reference he made to McDonald's coffee. Okay. The infamous McDonald's hot because right at the very beginning of the interview, we're talking about making tea in how Americans can't make tea and he says it's all to do with the case where, oh, the McDonald's coffee, which spilt and, but some hands, or like anything. Yes, and when the lawyer apparently said we're sending out a message that coffee's too hot. So the infamous McDonald's hot coffee case where a grandmother supposedly sued the fast food chain

for a coffee being too. It's an over legend. It has been widely misrepresented by the media. Okay. Pop culture understanding of the story has since been debunked. The poor woman in question suffered life-altering burns requiring extensive skin grafts. You can see this evidence in photos from the case, but really you don't want to. In the decade before this particular accident, McDonald's, I'm trusting that the red actor has checked legally every point. He's playing battleship in this email. Okay, you checked. Did you had time to do that? But not to tell me what was on the second half of the show? McDonald's had received 700 reports of people

seriously burning themselves and had admitted that it's coffee was served at a hazardously high temperature, far higher than other restaurants or fast food outlets. She did not want to go to court and at first a new requested money to cover her medical expenses, which were threatening to bankrupt her, but McDonald's refused leading to the suit. In the end, she was only awarded damages

of around $400,000, which sounds like a lot, but mostly went on her medical and legal expenses. Yeah, that's an American immersion. And is less than the amount of money McDonald's made selling its coffees in a single day. The narrative, idiot consumer, files, frivolous lawsuit, is a convenient one for big corporations looking to get out of their responsibilities

to their customers. And we are serving their interests over our own when we perpetuate it. I'm sure Gabriel didn't want to do any. No, I wasn't thinking about it. This is very well explained tonight. In fact, says Tati in Barcelona. This was a story about a working class woman holding a big corporation to account and forcing them to implement better, safer practices. And then she says Americans still don't know how to make tea, though. People want to know more, the wonderful, you're wrong about podcast. Have a whole episode on the case, which goes into much of the detail. So to recommend another podcast, but it's really good. Not about film, so it doesn't cross the streams. Very good. Tassine Barcelona, thank you. Right, so there you go. So that was just an opening

comment from Gabriel, but it's probably some interesting. Well, that is fascinating. And I'm actually very interested to hear that because I had always assumed as did Gabriel burn that that story was as represented, but apparently not. So that podcast is called You're Wrong About. It's her recommendation. Right. I'll check it out this week. Excellent. Yeah. Fun. Well, imagine a podcast full of things that you're wrong about. I mean, how long have you got? Exactly how many episodes can that run? Okay, movies that are out,

we've already mentioned the automatic. Yeah, so the automatic, which is on prime. This is a documentary by Lisa Herwoods, written by Michael Levine. It tells the story of, and you probably wouldn't, do you know what horn and hard art is? Horn and hard art.

Hard art. Is it a shop in Harry Potter? No, but you're right, it should have been. Sounds like it. Restaurant chain in America, stylish in Poria, where food was accessed through vending machines, through glass doors with chrome around the outside. So you go in, basically what you would do

is you'd put a couple of coins in the slot, you'd see the food behind the thing, you'd open it, you'd take it out. First one opened in Philadelphia in 1902, then expanded to New York around 1912. The last one closed in the early 90s. So it's a century of history. Apparently, and this was all largely used to me because I never encountered one. Grue and popularity through the Depression era, their favorite dishes being baked beans, mac and cheese and creamed spinach.

Alongside, their famous coffee, which kind of fits quite nicely. And this is a lovely, I mean, such a lovely documentary following the rise and fall of the chain, including interviews with famous patrons, most notably Mel Brooks. I mean, yeah. Okay, so you're on board already, okay? Yes, absolutely.

So, Mel Brooks, remembering how much he loved the coffee coming out of these sort of silver dolphins, but you put the money in, you'd have the thing, and then the coffee would come out. Talking about how he and Karl Reiner would meet at the Automat, he loved the coffee. Karl Reiner loved the pie. Here is a clip featuring the great Mel Brooks. One of the greatest inventions and insane centers of paradise. Well, these places that had little glass windows framed in brass with knobs.

And if you put two nickels into the slot next to the windows, the windows would open up. And you could take out a piece of lemon meringue pie for that sense. Now, it's a brief clip, but even just watching that, I immediately want to go to an ultimate and start. Sounds like it was ahead of its time. you know, I'd have thought that.

So, okay. So here's the thing. So very early on, Mel Brooks tells the film, because being very Mel Brooks, he says, look, you know, make the focus on me. Make me a spearhead for this Meshuganite idea that you've got. And he says, if you do a good job, I will write and perform the title song, which at the end of the documentary he does. And there is this song that he sings with an orchestra goes, there was nothing like the coffee at the Audemars.

And it's been going around and around my head ever since. And I now want to download it and have it on my phone. You get Ruth Bae de Ginsburg talking about how all classes and creeds would meet there. I think we're a very democratic way of getting food because it was good food at affordable prices. Elliot Gould, remembering the freshness of the food, and the fact that if you're working in theaters, there was one of the automats just around the corner.

Colin Powell, talking about his early memories of the thrill of opening the glass and getting the piece of pie, getting the pudding. And in the middle of it all, the guy who founded Starbucks, saying the first time he ever walked into an ultimate, he fell in love and thought, this is what I want to do.

And apparently in his office, he has a poster of one of the original automats on the wall because he literally says, that's where the idea came from. And it's such a charming piece. I mean, on the one hand, it's got this kind of, well, the nostalgia, you saw that lovely black and white clip and they, you know,

they have turned up in film and TV, but it's also kind of proustian remembrance because a lot of it is about food and people talking about how they love the lemurang pie, how they love the, you know, the cream spinach, how the particular taste of the coffee. There's a lovely bit quite far on in which it turns out that the coffee was so good that they were losing money on it because it was like, you know, the one nickel or whatever went in, but the coffee cost more than that. But that was their signature thing. And actually they had an advert about the fact that they couldn't figure out a sort of the problem of the coffee losing the money because everyone loved it. The design of the places, they're these kind of gleaming palaces, you know, clean, spacious tables,

or you know, all these different people meeting. And so there's all that, but it's also a social history document. I mean, it is also about the way in which the social history of America changed. I knew nothing about the subject. I'm in a herd of automats. I'd seen them on, you know, TV programs.

I knew nothing about it. I came out at the end of it thinking, I wish there was one that was working now because I wanted to go and get a piece of lemon meringue pie and a coffee out of a silver dolphin's bell. I've always said that thing about the best kind of documentaries you make you interested in and care about a subject about which you neither knew nor cared at all. It's just so charming. I mean, it was particularly at the moment with everything that's happening in the world. What's happening in, oh yeah.

If you want something that will just put a smile on your face, which people do. Yeah, and make you feel a little bit hungry and a little bit nostalgic and ends with Mel Brooks singing a song about how much he loved the coffee at the automat. This is for you, it's on prime and I can't recommend it highly enough. My favorite one, stupid, one of my favorite

Mel Brooks clips is when he was on the one show, you can find it online. And he's on the one show to promote whatever it is he's promoting. And he's on the sofa next to someone who's talking about something really, really serious. So they talked to Mel Brooks about his jovial and humorous thing. Then they cut to this other guy who starts talking about something serious. And then Mel Brooks leans in and says, this show is nuts. They go, yes, that's what everybody, that's what everybody is thinking. There is something about him. His voice is just, you know, you could listen to him talk to you forever and ever and ever. I remember the very first double-aids difficult film I saw was Blazing Saddles. And I stacked my shoes in order to look high enough to get in because I was 11 or something.

I'm seeing it radio too. He's just one of those instinct, he cannot stop. No, he can't stop. The fantastic entertaining, whatever it is that he's on to talk about. just one of those instinct, he cannot stop. No, he cannot stop. He can't stop fantastically entertaining. Whatever it is that he's on to talk about. I interviewed him for Radio One, and I turned up with a Nagra, you know, an old Nagra, real surreal, portable, real surreal.

And I had a microphone, and I held the microphone, and I think the film was Life Sucks or something, which the tagline was Money isn't everything, but without it, Life Sucks. And I had the microphone, and at some point in the interview, he just took the microphone out of my hand and just started, you know, monologue. That's what you really didn't need me in the room. That's what you want. Excellent. So the

ultimate is some time. That's very lovely. That's what we love. I've got a new feature on my drive time show, which is basically two cheerful songs. Re to be cheerful or something like that. And it's like the radio equivalent of a happy lamp. Well, it is. It's like a happy lamp. Well, happy lamp sounds better than a sad lamp, which is seasonally adjusted disorder. It's one of those lamps that you put on in the winter

to make you feel better, because you've got more light. This is a medical thing that when it's all done. Is this real? Yes, you have a sad lamp, SAD, seasonally adjusted. Oh, no, sad lamp. Okay, no, I know seasonally adjusted. Right. Yes. But I don you have a sadlam, S-A-D, season one. Oh no, I said sadlam. Okay, fuck you. No, I know seasonally adjusted, right.

Yes. But I don't want a sadlam, I want a happylam. Happylam. So, I've got a really happylam, so we just play happy songs, which is great, which is what people want. Thank you very much. That's my idea. Okay, well, happylam whilst watching an after-moveful on-prime and eating a piece of lemon.

The automatic. What did I say? An after-moveful. Oh, I'm so sorry, which might not have the same kind of groove. Whilst watching the Atomia on-prime and eating a piece of lemon meringue pie and drinking a cup of damn fine coffee. Because I'm about to say, what's still to come? An Atomia of a Foul.

An Atomia of a Foul. Yes. And also dream scenario. I'm going to talk to Emerald Fennel about her new movie Saltburn. We'll be back before you can say, it's a toll. Life is not about waiting for the stomped pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain. Happy Nord Christmas. Protect yourself whilst Christmas shopping online and access all the Christmas films from around the globe. Plus, when you shop online, you'll have to give websites your card details and other

sensitive data like your personal addresses. Those websites should already have their own encryption built into their payment systems, but to be on the safe side, you can use a VPN to ensure that all data coming to and from your device is encrypted. Even if you're using an unsafe Wi-Fi, you'll still be able to shop securely with a VPN. And you can access Christmas films only available overseas by using streaming services not available in the UK. To take our huge discount of your NordVPN plan, go to NordVPN.com slash take. Our link will also give you four extra months for free on the two-year plan. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money bank guarantee,

the link is in the podcast episode description box. Highest team podcast listeners, Simon Mayo. And Mark Kermot here. I'm excited to let you know that the new season of the Crown and the Crown, the official podcast, returns on 16th of November to accompany the sixth and final season of the Netflix epic Royal Drama series. Very exciting, especially because SuperSub and Friend of the Show Edith Bowman hosts this one.

Indeed, Edith will take you behind the scenes, dive into conversation with the talented cast and crew, from writer and creator Peter Morgan to the crown's Queen Elizabeth, Emelda Staunton. Other guests on the new series include the Crowns research team, the directors, executive producers Suzanne Mackie and specialists such as Voice Coach William Connaker and propsmaster Owen Harrison. Cast members including Jonathan Price, Selim Dor, Khalid Abdullah, Dominic West and Elizabeth the Bikki. You can also catch up with the story so far by searching the Crown, the official podcast,

wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe now and get the new series of the Crown, the official podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe now and get the new series of the crown, the official podcast first on November 16th. Available wherever you get your podcasts. Here is a fantastic email from Anker Johanna Van Linteren. Thank you Anker for getting into it. Where's from where? Don't know.

Oh yes, from... With warm greetings from a dutchy, now living, for getting in touch. From where? Don't know. Oh, yes. From, with warm greetings from a Dutchie, now living in beyond Borg country. OK. So she's Dutch and living in Sweden. That's what I'm guessing. Very good. OK.

An Anker, Johan, Van Lenter, and Sounds. Yes. Yeah. Which is of course part of Scandinavia, as we learn many years ago. Let's not go back to Mark's. Go to your graphical insight. Anyway, it starts.

Right. Happy Lamp time, all right. Right. So you're knowing you're going to know exactly where we are as soon as we get with the dear bit. Okay. Okay, dear rock dot and metal umlaut. Very good. I'm pretty sure you'll get a deliage of emails about the umlaut. Just to put it say, I predicted a deliage of emails.

Whether there has been, and obviously the redactors just chosen one. The one. Okay. They have been a lot. I kind of figured that the umlaut slash dioresis issue, but in short, the dioresis from the Greek dioresis meaning divisional distinction looks exactly the same as the umlaut, but has a radically different purpose.

Yes, but it crucially looks exactly the same because you were saying, no, it's not dots. It's dash, I was saying they look the same. Simon mentioned someone writing earworm with two dots over the O of earworm. This is known as a metal umlaut or rock dot. So when so rock dot has got as in two dots over the O and two dots over the in rock and in dot. So rock dirt. Yes, really says anchor, in rock and in dot. So rock dirt. Yes, really says anchor, a metal umlaut, AKA rock dot is a diacritic, just accent, that

is sometimes used gratuitously or decoratively over letters in the names of mainly hard rock or heavy metal bands. Heavy metal bands, yeah. For example, blue oyster cult, Queen's Reich, motorhead. Motorhead, that's one I'm thinking of. Motley crew and the parody band spinal tap, I didn't know spinal tap, I've got a normal laugh over the end.

Where's that? Also, Green Jelly, you've got one over the Y. Anyway, so that's fine. I hadn't heard of, I knew that metal bands love the umla. They do. But I didn't know that it had, they'd been come rock dots.

Well, I consider myself a spinal tap ball and I've never noticed that spinal tap haven't and maybe they do sometimes, you know, anyway, I'm only in favour of the metal umla. The album, the gospel according to spinal tap raises the question on what day did God rest? No, and what day did God create spinal tap and could he not have rested on that day instead? Oh, good. Box office top 10. So I messed that wild rest. No, and what day did God create Spinal Tap and could he not have rested on that day instead? Oh, good. Box office, top 10. So I messed that joke up.

No, but it was me. We got the spirit. I interviewed Christopher Guest once, and this is, in the case of this, Christopher Guest, he was incredibly fast on his feet. And he said something funny, and I said something funny back to him, I thought, and then he immediately came back at me and I had nothing to say, and he said, don't throw the ball if you can't

catch it. Okay. Wow. I was tough. I was put so solidly in my place, it was like, don't try and do this, you are not up to the job. Yeah. But at least he got eviscerated in the Princess Pride.

Yeah. He didn't prepare to die. He hadn't prepared to die. No matter how many fingers he had. And Mandy just told him, right, here we go. Box office top 10. Actually, before we get to that, the killer, right? So, I mean, which is obviously, it's not there.

Well, because it's a Netflix release. Therefore, it was in a small number. And as you know, Netflix don't release or didn't release box office figures. I imagine that's still the case. But it's basically, it's coming to Netflix today on the 10th. Tim Richards, so we on Netflix from today. Did Jackal and Samurai choose the night I saw the killer in the wonderful Elston Wick classic cinema in suburban Melbourne?

It was 8.40 the evening, and I'd been up since five in the morning, so my head might have been in a nod space. Is it just me or is the killer, David Fincher's first shot at comedy? Yeah, outrageously long and vapid opening narration. Is it once ironized? Now, this is Ironic as a verb, which I've never, I don't know if I've never actually said out loud before.

Okay. To make ironic. Anyway, the ironized... Ironized, but that sounds wrong. This is ironic as a verb, which I've never, I confess I've never actually said out loud before. Okay. To make ironic. Anyway, the ironized, ironized, but that sounds wrong. It does, because it's written ironized. Yes, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, the opening narration is ironized and the protagonist keeps doubling down on conspicuously dumb decisions, which belie his, I am the cool hyper expert, mantra.

Tilda, Swindon, later issues in invitation. Swindon. Not Tilda Swindon. Tilda Swindon. Yeah, she's right. She is. That where she's from. Issues in invitation to laugh, but I would have laughed quite happily all the way through

if publicity had prepared me for the subversely comic tone, or maybe I was just dizzy with fatigue, but if you want guffalls don't screw on a silencer. Yeah. Says Tim. So it's a comedy. Well, yeah, I mean, it may have an arch eyebrow raised, but I don't believe that that's its problem, but I think that's a perfectly legitimate response to it. Into the 10. Number 39. That's very fluff. Nobody has to know. Yeah, which I liked, I thought it was kind of moving and moody and had two very good central performances. At number 20, dance first. So this was the film about...

Okay, we were about to, when we was talking and we've cleared up the misunderstanding about the coffee at the beginning. I think that with somebody tells you, it is a waiting for Goddo inspired drama about the life of Samuel Beckett to your heart immediately sinks But actually the film itself is much more engaging and fun than that sounds and I think listening to Gabriel Bern talking about it Just made me like it more Seek it out if you can and number 15 none of these are in the US charts the Royal Hotel which I thought was

Really well done. I mean it is a kind of companion piece to the assistant charts, the Royal Hotel. Which I thought was really well done. I mean, it is a kind of companion piece to the assistant. And as much as the assistant is very, very low key about, you know, male aggression towards women done in a kind of, in a way, which is very little said. And this is the other side of it, you know, to backpackers go to a, it's by, by true story, go to basically a pub

in the middle of nowhere where they are told the male clientele will give them unwanted attention and it's how they deal with it. I thought it was really well done. Lou Forbes, Warwick University Alumni, B-A-M-B-A-C-P-R-S and Doctoral candidate. We have the 1998 Empire Magazine Godfather competition. Oh wow. I've been listening to the review of the Royal Hotel in last week's Take Two. I was a little surprised that there was no mention of the documentary Hotel Cool Guadi, which I understand the film is based on. Hotel Cool Guadi is a powerful and disturbing 2016 documentary directed by Pete Gleason,

about two girls stuck as barmaids in a rural town in Western Australia. I live in Perth, says Lou. And having been to small rural towns like Coolgardie that seemed stuck in the past, the documentary was kind of terrifying, very close to the bone, and easy to see how it would be hard to push back on an uncomfortable situation. I can't imagine that a fictionalized version has the same power. Hopefully the Royal Hotel will get more publicity

for this fabulous, locally made documentary. I don't think I can face the fictional version having seen the documentary, but would love to know what anyone who has seen both thinks about the difference, and what Mark thinks of Hotel Coolde, if he's seen it. Yeah, I haven't seen Hotel Coolde, as I said when I was reviewing it,

I knew that the thing was inspired by a real story, but I haven't seen Hotel Cool Guardian. As I said when I was reviewing it, I knew that the thing was inspired by a real story, but I haven't seen Hotel Cool Guardian. I have heard somebody else say that it's really worth watching. And that's Cool Guardian, COOL, G-A-R-D-I-E, if people want to check it out. And that is directed by Pete Gleason, and I think it is probably available on it is available on prime. Anyway, and Lucy, it's hello to Jason, up with thought-provoking regional filmmaking down with yet another superhero movie. I went to Western Australia because that's where they were filming the HTV program and we were much further south than Perth in Albany.

And there was a fantastic local cafe, which you enjoyed going to very much. You know, it's the place that serves good coffee at the right temperature, you know, like kind of stuff. And then I was silvered off and spout. Absolutely. And then on our last day, he said, so you guys from England, and I said, yes, he said,

and then he said, Brexit, that's a great idea. I think you guys did exactly the right thing. And you know, so proud. My ancestors all came from the UK and Brexit is going to be such a success. So I thanked him and then we flew out. Thanks for your insight. Number 12 is how to have sex. Again, in America, it hasn't changed.

I think it's a really, I think it's not really so yet. I think it's a really good film think it's not really so. I think it's a really... That's not excuse. Sorry, okay. I think it's a really good film. I think the performance is a terrific and I think it's really... I mean, it's interesting that we've got both Royal Hotel and how to have sex, both of which are about that kind of war zone in terms of, you know, interaction going from,

oh, it's just a bit of fun too. It's, this isn't fun at all. This is assault. And I think how to have sex brilliantly negotiates that kind of that area and does it in a way that is both subtle and also, I mean, it was interesting that it had to call Goddy being horrifying.

I think there are horrifying elements of how to have sex, but it also really captures the spirit of the young women at the heart of the story. That was great. Emile from Anna, dear, best night of my life and confusing sexual encounter. A long-term listener, to the extent that I was probably listening to the pods' previous incarnation on my own first messy holiday over a decade ago. Lots of things to say about this film. Amazing. The film is beautiful to look at, but the most incredible thing is the way it captures

the simultaneous joy and deep violation that you can feel when you're a teenager and having your first experiences. It was the most accurate and affecting depiction of this that I've ever seen on film. I loved it. I came out of the film wanting to cry, but also wanting to go dancing.

Film was about consent and rape culture can often forget that there's sometimes a really fine line between the best and worst night of your life. The joy and tragedy sitting side-by-side reminded me of another round. Both films are a- That's an interesting comparison. To stay far away from being lectures about the dangers of alcohol,

and in this case, the British style boozy holiday, but don't shy away from the darkness or the light. I'm so glad this film exists because it's able to articulate it for the rest of us we can sit back and say there. That's it. That's what it was like. It would be very cool if you read out this email but I also think that I've countless emails from women like me who feel the same way and I yes but yours got on because maybe it was better. Number 10. So I'm going to say that's brilliantly expressed. That is absolutely brilliantly expressed in captures exactly what it is that makes the film so remarkable.

Number 10 is some other hood. Which has done fine. It's not a film for me, but it's done fine. Number nine, number 14 in the States is the Create Hall. Child one of the ones to see it in Copenhagen. And so it was really good. Big fan of Gareth anyway, so as we are, I thought it was terrific.

So I think, you know, continues to find fans because it's a film of ideas that also looks spectacular because he does that brilliant thing about. Let's go to amazing locations and then put the robots in afterwards. I forget the precise numbers, but he has made like a $300 million movie on 100 million. Yeah, that's a 80 or something.

Yeah, that's fantastic. The exorcist believer is at number eight here, number six in the States. I think we've probably been there and done that. Number seven is bottoms. There was, I still struggle with that. Yeah, but you know, it's, there was an enthusiastic discussion underneath the YouTube thing about whether or not you haven't gone below the line. About how much two old men understood the other meanings of things. You said, why is it called bottom? It's because they're at the bottom of the ladder. You should read a book instead of going below the line. I was just checking up on the show. I know you don't need to do it. And somebody said, I know what happened

is that the young people in the control room took them aside in the break and explained. What was that? That was the ace of it. Anyway, I thought the film was great. I thought it was really an arctic and I really enjoyed it. And I thought it had a real kind of spirit and energy

and it was very out there and I thought it was terrific. An email from Christopher Parker, BSc, PhD, DIC, meaning Diploma of Imperial College, bass player, but not a member of Queen, as noted by Mark, where my correspondence was read out in a pretty good manner. Is it John Deacon? Is that the guy's name? Christopher Parker is his name. Oh, that's right.

It's from Amy. Oh, because he's Imperial College. I think Imperial College, show it, make a big one. Following Mark's co-film of the week recommendation for Mark's, I took the good lady, lay pastoral assistant, Cara Chaplin, her rarely indoors, to see the film at our local world of cine. Okay. Alarm Bell's rang at the tone of the trailers, where attention, violence and blood were much in evidence.

To pick up on a recent show thread, the BBC title card was another red flag. And I quietly said, we could leave if you want. The torrent of bird song was, as noted in Mark's review, but what followed was somewhat more than a narcake and freewheeling, both in adverticomers. The violence was mainly played for laughs, but at times was excessive and unnecessarily gory for a supposed comedy. Particularly, the final kick taken at Hazel at the pep rally. I laughed four times, but Cara was, other half was appalled throughout, but kindly stuck with it,

because I wanted to see where the film was going. That's always, how many films have you set particularly on the television? I'm gonna just wanna see where it's going, yeah. The blurbs and reviews suggested this was a Gen Z take on high school queer coming of age story. Perhaps thought along the lines of she's the man, the BBC card gave a much more accurate

presee of the film's content, possibly a lesson to seek a range of input where sensitivity exists. I now have to take the good lady to see the trolls movie tonight instead of how to have sex by way of recommends. Hello to all the usual, down with terrorism, war crimes and human rights abuse. Thanks for the show, which I love mainly due to the efforts

of the team in particular, okay, they're a doctrine team. All right, okay, so. Well, I should say in relation to that, that I had a conversation just yesterday with a fellow film critic who said almost exactly the same thing that she was, she found the violence completely off- off putting. I think that I see it differently. I thought the violence was entirely comedic. Bear in mind, I am somebody

who was absolutely of a piece with Sam Raimi saying that the evil dead was a three-stooge's movie with blood and gut standing in for custard pies. So the way that I read it, there was nothing, there was nothing actually. And of course, the way that I read it, there was nothing, there was nothing actually. And of course, the way that I read the very final scene, which as I said, I compared to the last scene of Phil Kaufman's, the wanderers. And the wanderers definitely goes from being realistic into being dreamy and surreal, even though people forget to point that out when they're talking about it. So you are not alone in thinking that. It is not what I thought, but obviously valid opinion.

As I said, somebody who I respect very much has, and if you do feel like that about the violence, the film will stop being funny. And maybe the key phrase in the email from Christopher Parker is where sensitivity's exist. And if you think that you, all the person that you're gonna go with might have some issues you, all the person that you're going to go with, might have some issues with some of the stuff that's going on.

Check out what the BBC is saying. Again, because that is what they are very good at. Yeah. And also, in very mind, if you think, oh, Mark liked a film, just remember some of the other films that Mark liked includes the evil dead. Exactly. And judge accordingly. Was that a good movie? Judge According Me? includes the evil dead. Exactly. And, you know, and judge accordingly.

Was that a good movie, Judge Accordingly? I was, yes, it was about somebody called Mr. Accordingly, who became a judge. Number six, that's a good pitch. That's a TV show, Judge Accordingly. That's a good, that is good. The Great Escaper, is it number six? Which I thought was, I mean, actually without wishing

the same patronizing, you probably should have gone to Great Escaper because I really love the great escape, and it is absolutely charm on a stick, and I love the performances, and Glenn the Jackson reminded me of my mom. Number five is Paw Patrol, the mighty movie, which I can now not think of other than Paw Patrol. As a result of the last week, yeah.

UK number four, number two in the States, Taylor Swift, the earrings's tour, the concert. So I had a conversation with a young person about this. Wow. Who said, I think we're all getting, you know, above ourselves about Taylor Swift. I mean, Taylor Swift is good, but suddenly everyone's reassessing all the albums

and saying they're the greatest work of, you know, pop music, EVS. And I just didn't know much about Taylor Swift beforehand, but I just enjoyed the whole movie because I thought whatever she's doing, she's really good at doing it, and it's a very, very kinetic, I mean, slightly even child too, went to see.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely, I loved it. I played Shania Twain on the radio last night, and there's no doubt that she was Shania Twain. I always once say with somebody, says I played Shania Twain, I want to go really who won. Still the one, no, come on over, which is the name of the album. It's clearly a huge influence on so many people. It's the biggest selling album by a woman ever. Is it? Biggest selling country

album, biggest selling album by a Canadian. And it's Chennai Twain. She just released a new, because there were posters on the tube for... I think so very nice when you come back album. It was me. But this was the album anyway, end of the 90s, which made such a huge... And sorry, excuse my ignorance, is she the man feels like a woman?

That should be like, well, that's fine. Is that the thing, is that the track from that album? There's four hits singles, which are there. I'm just trying to remember after that. But that don't impress me much. Yeah, still the one I think was the first one, that don't impress me much, and there's one other, which will, our top research team once they've turned away from battleships will. And don't impress me much is the one which has got, so your Brad Pitt. Yes. Okay, go. Look how pop-tastic I am. Very good. Thank you. A pair of threes, killers of the flamune, number three here, and number three in the states.

Yeah. A good, interesting story well told. Let's not even drag on the length of it. Number two here, number one in the states, five nights at Freddy's. Now, this has not dropped anything like as much as I thought it would. I thought it would go straight in at number one and then drop like a stone in the second week, and it hasn't done. It has done better than I expected and number one and probably viewed even as we're speaking by Christopher Parker Correspondent with the lay pastoral assistant Karen Chaplin her really indoors to go and see trolls band together the UK's number one Yeah, I mean it is exactly what you would expect from the film Justin Bieber has said that he hopes that there are five of them because I think they will enable him to buy the entire world.

And yeah, it is exactly the movie that you think it is. And half-term has just finished, three weeks of half-term, and the general spread over the delights of England's Kotlin, Northern Ireland and Wales, and so it'll probably drop next week. It would imagine. But it's more than washed its face.

It has served its purpose. After the break, we're going to be hearing from the Oscar-winning Emerald Fennel. MUSIC This episode is brought to you by Mooby, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe. From myConnect directors to emerging otters, there's always something new to discover, for example.

Well, for example, the new Aki Karri's Macchi film Fallen Leaves, which won the jury prize it can, that's in cinemas at the moment. And if you see that and think I want to know more about Aki Karri's Macchi, you can go to movie The Streaming Service and there is a retrospective of his films called How to Be a Human. They are also going to be theatrically releasing In January Priscilla, which is a new Sophia couple of films, which I am really looking forward to since I have an Elvis obsession. You could try Mooby Free for 30 days at Mooby.com slash

Kermit and Mayo. That's M-U-B-I dot com slash Kermit and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. Your business has grown fast, from opening your first location to planning an expansion in no time, and with your business platinum card from American Express, you can access spending, power,

and payment flexibility to fuel your growth. Sarah, the contractor is here with the plans. American Express, don't do business without it. Terms and conditions apply visit mx.ca slash business platinum. Okay, special guest time. She is a BAFTA winner, an Oscar winner, an Emmy winner, a Golden Globe winner. She's just a winner. Yes. Uh, show runner on killing Eve.

She made her directorial debut for promising young woman, which is when she got the octopus, uh, the octopus. She got the octopus. She got the octopus for, for the best script. What a great thing. That was a great speech. And she was wrestling with all its tentacentacles, I believe. Also she played Camilla Dutch to Cornwall in the Crown and so on.

Anyway, you all know it's Emerald Fennel. Her new movie is Saltburn and you'll hear from Emerald after this clip from the movie. Someone unpacked my suitcase. Ah, yes, I should have told you they'd do that here. The maids will report back to Mum by the way, so I hope you didn't pack anything scandalous. Just my old boxes. Oh no they're used to that, don't worry. Duncan will be through. Oh I hope you don't mind. I had them hang up in old school dinner jacket here. We dressed for dinner so I didn't want you to be cultural. And that is a clip from Saltburn.

I'm delighted to say I've been joined by its writer, producer and director, Emerald Phinell. Hello, Emerald, how are you? Hello Simon, I'm very well. Thank you. Very nice to see you last time. We spoke, you were in an attic somewhere with Kerry Mulligan. Yes, I think sadly we weren't sharing an attic. I think we were in our own respective COVID attics. Yeah.

Yes. So it's very nice to be able to do this in person. But obviously you've got to do it without actors. Is that problematic to, you know, you've worked for so long on this film and it's just you talking about it. You know, the thing is, is I really support the strike and I'm really proud of them. And I think it will mean we can all make films

Going forward for the next few decades So I sort of you know, I'm sad for them that they can't talk up their own incredible work But I'm but I'm also very supportive so yeah, so um what is salt burn That's the oh come on. That's the obvious question No, I'm sorry that wasn't I wasn't kind of I was saying, you know, It's the title of the film. So it is that it's the type of the film that I made. Explain the title.

So explain the title, thank you. So saltburn is a house. Thank you. Do you know what it is? It's very difficult for me to describe this film. I actually think that as the person who made it, I'm the least well-equipped describe, pissily, what this film is because Saltburn is a, let's say, what I'm practiced saying.

Saltburn is an erotic thriller and a dark comedy about class and desire in England. Right. Okay, so that's okay, So that's the general canvas. Yes. Dark and twisted. Hmm. That'd be fair. I think so. Yeah, I think it would be fair. Would it be, I feel as though I need to tell you, is it, I feel really bad? I kind of hated everybody. Did you? Yes, but in a good way. Yeah. I felt as though this is what you were telling me to do. I think, well, look, it just depends on how you... Is it positive comment? Oh, thank you.

Don't we all hate ourselves? You know, are we good people? I like to do it when I've been showing this film. Whenever we have these kinds of conversations after, as I sort of like say, like, hands up who's a good person. That's a very good... And I do think... I do think the thing that I find interesting

in any story in any drama is the tension between who we think we are, whether it's Elspeth who thinks she's an extremely good person, or Felix, or any of them, the tension between the delusion and the reality. That's kind of what drama is, isn't it? And so I don't hate any of them, of course, because they're all of them up to a point. They're kind of coming from me somewhere. So I have to be sympathetic towards them. But I also don't...

I don't think it's interesting to kind of make any moral judgments on anyone, because I think people are... that people at their most interesting are kind of really sticky and dire and lovable. So we started Oxford and then we moved to Salt Bend. Is it a kind of a version of your Oxford? It's sort of a version of my Oxford. I mean, I think the thing for me was that because it's a sort of gothic movie in that sort of British gothic tradition of like the go-between and Bride's head, it had to be, it had to have that kind of framing narrative, which was something happened one summer

that like destroyed the protagonist's life. And so 15 years ago did feel like a great, kind of starting point. And I like the specifics. I like getting into Nuts magazine and the terrible haircuts and the world's worth tattoos. And I think not only is it nice to be specific, when you're talking about these very timeless worlds,

but it's also very humanizing. If you're talking about kind of very beautiful aristocratic people, there's really something lovely about bad faked hand or yeah, live strong bracelet. But it could be a hundred years ago, or it could be now. I mean, essentially your story. Yeah. Because as soon as you go into a stately home,

we feel as though we're in the 19th century. Oh, and the rules never change. And partly the reason it is set in a stately home rather than, you know, I don't know, sort of the Kardashians compound or kind of like the Hamptons is that Britain has been so effectively exported to the country house as a genre. It's a tradition. Oh, it's a total fetish. And me and Lina, they're amazing cinematographers, spent a lot of our time, you know, shooting the house as a fetish object, you know, sliding up the stairs and kind of, you know, making sure that it was shot like a kind of beautiful actor,

because that's part of it. We're all, we are all of us engaged in this kind of sadant, masochistic love affair with things that will never love us back, things that don't even see us. Introduces to Oliver Quick, then, which is where our story centers around him. Yeah, so Oliver Quick played by Barry Yogan,

an amazing, amazing Barry Yogan, is a scholarship boy, I suppose, is how they describe him, who goes to Oxford, having worked his whole life to get there, having read every book, having believed that his life would be transformed for the better, that he could kind of live the bright-set experience, I guess. And he arrives there immediately and realises what I think is still the case that actually working hard is gauche, wearing a suit and tie is sort of pathetically uncool. And that actually

the harder he's worked, the more he's tried, the more disdain is poured onto him. And so it's that kind of like, it's him then, I suppose, learning how to sort of fit in, I suppose, learning to become the person that he wants to be, which is someone special. And why did you go for Barry Kyrgkin? Because he's just put in, I mean, he's fantastic in everything that I've ever seen him in. But I've never seen him sort of lead a film. Mm. It was sort of, he's just so exceptional.

And I think the thing is about, you know, without giving too much away the thing about Oliver that's important is that he's sort of, he is an ambiguous person. He is unknowable up to a point. And I think Barry is exceptional. He's exceptional in moments of silence, he's exceptional in moments of stillness and he's compelling then.

And the thing is is that it needed an actor who had the kind of power and the kind of sex appeal and the vulnerability to kind of make us feel for this person. But also someone who had a kind of an otherness, a sort of, there's a kind of malevolence, I think, to this performance that was sort of crucial, and a crucial part of what makes him as character so attractive. And opposite him is Felix around whom also the story revolves. It's impossible to believe this man is an Australian. Really he is the very embodiment of received pronunciation, privilege, entitlement, aristocracy. He's got the lot.

He's got the whole thing. Yeah, I mean, Jacob came in. I met Jacob and I just thought he was so fascinating. He's Jacob of the Lordy. Sorry, Jacob of the Lordy, who plays Felix. And he's an Australian, as you say, he's famous for playing Americans in Euphoria and the Kissing Booth. And he came into addition and it was just the most extraordinarily deft bit of observational comedy. Because what happened was everyone came in wanting to play Felix as the kind of Sebastian flight, as somebody sort of self-aware, somebody loose, somebody kind of glamorous. But what Jacob kind of knew, which was what I was looking for, was a real person, sort of a disappointingly real person, for all of his glamour and gorgeousness and richness.

He's just some look, and he's sort of spoiled, and he's sort of misogynistic, and he's not really as nice as he seems, but it was important to have someone with so much charisma that you're willing to overlook, as we all do all the time. All of his many feelings. And he has lots. The the the Lord and Lady of the Manor, Rebecca Pike and Richard E. Grant, just fantastic. And they have some they have some great lines. I imagine that you all had a blast. My understanding is you you all put everyone in in the house for six weeks. Seven weeks. We're not actually in the house. Some were so poor, we simply done and Rosminder in the house. The rest of us were nearby. I mean you know it's absolutely the thing for

me about making any film as I say right off the back to the actors. It's no swanky trailers. Nobody goes back to base ever. We have a green room that everyone stays in, where they've got one line or they're the lead of the film. Everyone cast and crew eats together. It's really important. And so, you know, the thing for me is to make sure that we have, it's not just because I'm a Tweet idealist. It's also because you need to work fast, respect each other, not be in your trailer for hours or whatever it is. I love the fact that Richard, soon at the first time we see him, his hair is just slightly disheveled.

Completely disheveled. But I just thought, okay, we have him instantly, exactly the kind of guy that he is. Well, indeed, we think we do. And it's only later that we kind of, I think, a lot making this film, thinking a lot about Hillary Mantell and Wolf Hall, talking about being friends with a lion, you know, being friends with the king, and the course of the king is like being friends with a lion, you're towsling its mane and all the time

you're thinking those clothes, those clothes, those clothes. And that's what this film is about, what it is to be an acolyte, what it is to get in, how you stay there. And you've known, is it true you've known Richard for a long time or? I think I met him when I was a young teenager, but I'd never worked with him before and I was such a huge, huge fan of how to get ahead and advertising.

It's one of my all-time favorite films, all-time favorite performances. He's such a genius. And I think that this character needed, like everyone needed in this film, the potential for menace that always underneath everything, underneath the kind of bonnemy was this sort of sharpness that he's both a little boy and very much not a little boy. And that's what I think, that is what everyone in this, but particularly

Richard Richard is a he's got he's always had this thing where you never quite know what you're going to get. Both on the day and as an audience and that's what's exciting. It's only usually Mark who goes on about aspect ratio. A great length and a great detail. But I do feel it just explain a little bit what the film was like when we're actually watching in this. Well, I think so the Aspect Ratio is really, it's absolutely like everything. It's a creative conversation as well as practical one.

So practically speaking, the house that we shot Assault Burn, we was incredibly, as all these has are, very tall and square. So it meant, we needed something square to make sure we weren't cutting things off. Two of our actors are actually in J.G.P.6 for the five. So practically speaking, you don't want to be animal-ficking cut someone's head off every time.

It also creatively made much more sense because the kind of references we were using tended to be old films. Peach Greenway and Losi, you know, or we were looking at paintings, and they tended to be portraits. They tended to be caravaggio, Lucy, you know, or we were looking at paintings and they tended to be portraits. They tended to be caravaggio or, you know, Joshua Reynolds or Gainesborough. So it was like all of these things kind of conversation. It's funny that I think sometimes we think of aspect ratio as being an inbuilt, automatic thing.

But of course, there aren't that many choose from number one, but everything, everything that is going to be on screen, particularly the framing, has to be a conversation, it has to be something you can justify not once, but ten times over. And I think me and, you know, me and Linus, every day, was so relieved because, you know, everything in this film up to a point of square, we have pristine marches, we have music boxes, we have mazes, it's all a matter of kind of peeping in, and it needed that squirtness. And the close-ups, you know, if you're wide, you're seeing so much stuff, you're cutting people's faces,

but the close-ups in this film, we could go so close. My final comment is you have spoiled murder on the dance floor. Spoiled? Okay, no, that's the wrong way. You have rearranged everyone's perception of that song. So the next time I play Sophia Lyspector, people will have a whole different thought sequence like Steelers Wheel.

We're stuck in the middle of you. People think of that differently once they've seen it. I think that's true. Well, I'm sorry, and you're welcome. No, absolutely. But you had an absolute blast doing that. That's all we got. I'm not saying anything else. You know what the thing, the thing that is the thing that I'm sure you hear from filmmakers all the time is it's a very, very hard work to make something like a blast. Well, in which case you've succeeded fantastically.

Thank you. And we'll thank you very much today. Thank you very much. She's very good, isn't she? Great interview. I can't wait to see the film which I haven't seen yet. I love the fact that you got in the aspect ratio. It's got an I immediately was googling to see whether it's one through one through it which is fantastic. I think it's one of the first things that you realize, oh, you're doing that. So it seemed to be something that absolutely you did have to talk. Normally I wouldn't really spend a lot of time, but she's so sharp, she's so clever. I'm not telling you anything that anybody doesn't know.

Can I just say before any emails come in, I made one howling error in that interview. Well, I referred to Rosman Pike as Rebecca Pike, and I worked with Rebecca Pike at Radio 2 on Drive Time. She did the business and money. She was part of the program. So, which is why I think Emerald in the answer makes a reference to Rosamond Pike, because I got the wrong. Let me see your Rebecca Pike and raise you that I was on stage with Thomas Goonmaker and Kevin McDonald.

And I called Kevin McDonald Andrew twice because of course Kevin McDonald's brother Andrew who was in the audience. I have known for a long time and I had said to Kevin McDonald before we went on. I better not call you Andrew. And then did it. And then twice not once twice. And he had to go Mark. It's Kevin. And I know it's Kevin. It's that famous thing. Everything you know is wrong. Well,, Mark, it's Kevin. And I know it's Kevin. It's that famous thing, everything you know is wrong. Well, I mean, that's embarrassing, although I did in, I can't remember which way around it was.

I'm doing top of the pops. There are two bands out, one called Modern English and the other called Broke News. Modern English and Broke English. And whichever band it was, I introduced the other one. And I sent to the floor manager, I sent to the floor manager, I said, the floor manager, I introduced the wrong band. He says, find it, right?

There you go. No one cares. Yes. That'll be here today, gone tomorrow. I also got a check in the post this week for 35 pounds from the BBC rang me up and said, we've got some money for you as they can. Hello.

35 quid for doing top of the pops in 1995. Wow. I mean, why this one particular performance is giving me 35 quid for doing top of the pops in 1995. Wow. I mean, why this one particular performance has given me 35 quid to spend all these years later? It happens. Anyway, all of which is a very suitable introduction because we're already laughing into the laughter lips. Hmm.

Hey, Mark, I see a Ridley Scott's Napoleon is out soon. Yes, it is. I'll wait a bit of an Napoleon buff myself. I was just reading about his regrets after invading Russia in the winter. A wee sheyad, a wee zine side, kept my arm as much warmer. Next time I will put to my sleeve his on some. A-ha-ha-ha-ha. Can we still do that kind of joke?

I don't think so. And Napoleon Bonaparte was also known as Napoleon I. Napoleon II was his son. Napoleon III was the son of Napoleon I, brother Louis. We are of course using regnal numbers for them which are uppercase Roman numerals. By the way have you heard about the outrageous plan to prohibit the use of Roman numerals? No. I, for one, think it's a terrible idea. Eria Dite, I think so. It was a long time coming that punchline. What car would Napoleon drive were he around today?

I don't know. That's right. A voxel corsica. Some people say he was perhaps the greatest leader in Europe of the last 250 years. But for me, he comes up short. Apparently that joke was told in 1799. Was it? Yeah. There's a whole sequence in time bandits

with Napoleon surveilling himself with the time bandits and holding forth about how all the great leaders in the world were shorter than him. We'll be back after this. With Mark's review of Dream scenario, what's on, what else are you going to review? Anatomy of a fool. Anatomy of a fool. Unless you're a van God Easter, in which case we have just one France-related question. With Mark's review of Dream scenario, what's on, what else are you going to review? And after me before, that's me before.

Unless you're a van Goddester, in which case we have just one France-related question. What did the French do for the last time the Star Wars came out? With banking packages from Scotiabank, you can put money back in your pocket. That's how Marcus was able to invest in everything he needed to launch his podcast about his pets. Welcome back to PetGasd! Visit scoShabank.com slash welcome offer, scoShabank conditions apply. Enjoy the classic taste of the holidays at Tim's with the new non-alcoholic Bailey's flavored holiday menu.

Whether you're hanging holiday lights or driving up to your folks, you can enjoy your tins and bailies, anytime, anywhere at participating restaurants in Canada. Very, very interestingly. Was it that they were polite? Well, I'm very good. What did the... Oh, ho, ho, ho! What did the French do for the last time the Star Wars came out? The answer is,

executed the last person by Gillatin. Precisely. The first Star Wars movie released May the 25th, 1977. The last person executed by Gillatin in France was Hamida Jambudi on September the 10th, 1977. No, not in public, obviously. Mark, I don't tell you, Mark, he's looking genuinely shocked. Yeah.

Yes. Are you not? I read it last night, but no, I didn't know it carried on a, I didn't realize it was 77, but I knew it was after the Second World War. Okay, genuinely shocked. There's a moment. There you go.

I mean, it is one thing. Feel free to pass on that fact as we go through the week. Anyway, that's very good. Are you all right, too? Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, I'll just, okay. So shall I leap into a review? New movies out this week include Great Week.

Anatomy of a fool, which is the new film by director and co-writer Justin Trier, who in May became only the third woman to win the Palm Dorat Canne after Jane Campion for the piano, Welcome to New Zealand where it's raining always. And Judy DeCourneau for the film which you describe as she's having sex with a car. Why would anyone do that? It's a film it's not real. So this stars the brilliant Sandra Hula whose name incidentally has an umlaut over the U, who career-makingly got a Kermode Award for Requiem

in 2006. That was very important. That was very nice. Really was. Went on to star in Renezade's Tony Erdman. She's also in Jonathan Glazer's Zone of Interest, which of course is a very big awards contender coming soon. So in Anatomy of the Thoughts, she plays Sandra Voiter,

who we meet in a remote home in Grenoble trying to conduct an interview with a journalist because she's a writer. In the background we hear the sounds of the Bacowrhythm and Steel Band's cover of 50 cents Pimp playing on repeat, getting louder and louder and we have no idea where this sound is coming from but it becomes loud enough that the interview that she's trying to do with this journalist has to stop. The interview gets up and leaves, gets in a car. And Sandra's son, who is blind, goes out for a walk with his dog. When he returns, he finds the body of his father, Samuel, on the floor in a pool of snowy blood. He seems to have fallen from the window of the attic, which is where the noise of

that music was coming from. Apparently, he was playing the music loudly on repeat, possibly to annoy his wife, possibly to stop the interview. But he has a gash on the side of his head that the investigators say, well, this looks like this. He was hit with a blunt object before he fell from the window. And the only person in the house was his wife. So therefore, she is suspected of murder. And the rest of the film is basically an investigation of her dealings with her lawyer friend, Vonson, who says that they should claim that he committed suicide. And the court proceedings, during which, for example, at one point, a witness,

which is the husband's therapist, says, well, he told me that you were terrible to him, that you suffocated him, that you basically you stole your ideas from him and you bullied your husband. Here is a clip of her responding to that accusation. You come here with your opinion and you tell me who somewhere was and what we were going through. But what you say is just a little part of the whole situation, you know. I mean sometimes a couple is kind of a chaos, and everybody is lost, no? And sometimes we fight together and sometimes we fight alone

and sometimes we fight against each other that happens. And I think it's possible that somewhere needed to see things the way you describe them, but if I'd been seeing a therapist he could stand here too and say very ugly things about someone else, but would those things be true? So that's Sandra Huller who is German, who during the course of the film speaks three languages, her own French, because of where she lives and her husband, and English, as you heard in that clip, and she switches between the languages and the switching between the languages becomes part of

the story. Partly because sometimes she's trying to explain herself in one language and then moves to another language because it's impossible to use that particular language to do it. And secondly, because it's to do with she's displaced, she's living in a country in which she is having to use different languages. And also because it creates layers cover, I think the word that the director used was it creates sort of, you know, masks that so you can't quite see who she is. So Tre and her writing partner Arthur Ari originally called this when they first announced it a Hitchcockian procedural thriller director also said she wanted to use the courtroom

to explore the minutiae of a character and their relationships and that she was partly inspired very partly by the Amanda Knox case, by the way in which we bring assumptions to what somebody should look like and we make assumptions about their guilt or innocence on the basis of how they present. There's also, and this has been repeated quite a lot, famously on the set, she refused to tell Sandra Hulla whether the character was guilty or innocent. She said, I'm not having that discussion with you. This is the script. This is how it works. I think the film is brilliant. I thought that the ambiguity is sustained to the point that it

really makes you question your own presumptions. There's something about Sandra Hulla's performance quite apart from that. she's a magnificent actress. That she's on the one hand completely readable. I mean, you saw just from that clip, she looks like she is really struggling to construct that sentence right before you. You and I were talking about the way in which Obama, you can hear the thinking, the thought that goes into the grammar of a sentence. But also something which is kind of removed, something which seems to be almost detached, like almost emotionally disengaged. And it makes you, do we vilify successful women? Do we, the husband was a writer, but he didn't have her success? There are subplots. There's a tape of an argument which she had with her husband, which her husband recorded, and he recorded it

as inspiration for what he was writing. I was reminded of a story about Abel Farahra, the director, recording an argument that he constructed with his wife because he was trying to write a script about an argument. The theft of ideas or the alleged theft of ideas are confusion over what the young child did here, what he didn't hear, what he believes, what he doesn't believe. And the more you get into the detail, the more you realise that what's actually happening is you are making a judgement based on what you just think emotionally. And to me, that's kind of what the core of it is. I think to other people, it will be about many different things. It's edge of your seat stuff. I mean, it's

the Hitchcockian comparison is good, but I think it's more than that. I think it's completely engrossing. You can feel your brain firing on all cylinders all the way through, as you're sort of scouring the screen for clues and for, you know, I thought it was just terrific. It's quite a long film and I never felt know, I thought it was just terrific. It's quite a long film and I never felt for one minute that it was anything other than exactly the length it's meant to be. Sounds almost all fashioned in the way you... Yeah, well, good way in its construction. Well, making that hitchcock in comparison, obviously, you know, people compare things to

hitchcock quite casually, as we know. But it is on the one hand an old fashioned courtroom drama and on the other hand it is a fantastically modern drama about the way in which we judge people, the way in which we bring our presumptions to the table. Believe me, one of the films of the year loved it. Fantastic. Look you forward to seeing it. The Obama clip that you mentioned by the way, and again, we keep mentioning other podcasts, which seems like we're all friends here. In the, you often mention Podsave America. In the latest edition, they have an interview with Barack Obama. And some of this has been clipped on social media.

Anyway, we're having a conversation about the way Obama is asked, obviously, about the situation in Israel, Gaza. And he talks about the, you know, the arguments we don't need to go into any of them now. But he's talking about the different you know, the arguments we don't need to go into any of them now, but he's talking about the different situations in the different parts of that section of the world. And instead of using but as he goes from one side to the other, he uses and. And the effect is of an extraordinary balanced paragraph in which you think, okay, this guy, he's got it. And it's the way it's a rhetorical device, I suppose. But who to thought they're just by using and-and-not,

but it changes the meaning of the whole. But also you said that what happens is that during the course of the sentence, there is a sort of audience reaction that you can hear him incorporating into the way he's telling, it's just, yeah, I mean, it is a brilliant piece of oratory. Anyway, that's on Pots of America. Anyway, so we've had one of the films of the year, maybe. I think, absolutely. Once you've seen it, let us know correspondentsacoderma.com.

What else is out? So, Dream scenario, which is a new film from Norwegian, right to the right, the Christopher Borgley, who made a sick of myself, in which dreams also kind of played a key role. So, Nicholas Cage, don't let me say cave. I won't. Kevin, not Andrew.

Yes. Modern English, Rosamond, not Rebecca. He's Paul Matthews, who is an underdog evolutionary biology professor, who students barely know that he's there. He's in class. They're all just doing other stuff. They're not interested. We meet him en route to see a former colleague, who thinks has stolen his work on ant-telegents.

Okay, okay, fine. She's got a book coming out. If all his colleagues have a book coming out, he doesn't have a book coming out. He hasn't written one. He's working on one. Well, he hasn't actually started the writing, but he's resentful about the fact

that everyone else is being published apart from him. Then turns out that his daughter had a dream about bodies falling out of the sky, and he was in the dream but he did nothing. He said, well, but you know, I do stuff. You know, that time that you fell in the, I rescued you. She said, I don't remember that.

I just know that you told me that, did it. Then he meets an ex at the theater and she says, I'm so glad to meet you. I've been dreaming about you. And she wants to meet up so that she can write an article about this, everyone is being published, other than him. Then work colleagues start dreaming about him,

again, doing nothing. And this weird kind of youngy and collective consciousness thing happens in which people are having dreams, he's in the dreams, doing nothing, why him, and then the story goes viral, his clip. You've been on my mind recently. You just keep popping up in my dreams. You don't do anything, you're just there.

So, this specific person, the remarkable nobody, I haven't still got that experience. Do you have a picture? Have you been dreaming about me? Have I been dreaming about you? Yeah. There's like a hundred messages somebody wants to interview me. This is strange.

Maybe you should take a minute and think before you do anything drastic. Why me? I don't know. I'm special I guess. Well as is evident evident, I said clip, I meant trailer. So anyway, so then he's on the news as this person is appearing in everyone's dreams. And celebrity brings with it rewards. Suddenly everyone's dreaming about him, everyone wants to know about him. Now his students paying attention, they want to take selfies with him.

But he can't control what he does in other people's dreams because it's other people's dreams. And of course, when it changes from him doing nothing to him doing something in the dreams, suddenly everything changes. So I think the best way of describing this totally weirdly enough is in reference to other films. So Ariaster is a producer on the project. So Ariaster who made me to and bow is afraid, which I know you enjoyed

enormously. Yes, but you know the kind of dream logic of bow is afraid. You remember that? Okay, so that ties into it. So much fun. Cage plays this kind of hapless divided soul here. If you remember adaptation in which Nick Cage plays the divided writer, the Charlie Kaufman project, and of course, Charlie Kaufman co-wrote Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which again is about that thing about memories and it kind of works in a dream logic way. There's also an ongoing gag about his wife. Having, he took some at one point, he says, if I'm in your dreams, what do I do? She said, I don't do anything. He said, well, you know, what about a fantasy? What if I was a fantasy? What would be your fantasy? And she says, well, do you remember that time we went to that party and

you dressed up in the David Burn suit from stop making sense? And he says, what that's your fantasy is me dressed in the David Burn suit. The film ends with City of Dreams, which is the song that closes David Burns weird. Do you have to see true stories? It's a lovely, lovely film, kind of strange vignettes film about a town, Virgil celebrated, celebration of strangeness. All these things kind of play into it.

And then there's Michael Sarah, who seems like a ball, but plays, he was a total sleaze ball in the end of the world. And he's in, you know, Scott Pilgrim, in which he's kind of in the middle of his own dream world. And he plays this executive at a company called Thoughts, question mark, who are trying to market his power to be in other people's dreams.

And at first, it's a completely benign power, but then it becomes something very different. And then we spend time, we see the dreams of the people, firstly, we see the dreams of the people having dreams in which he's not doing anything. Well, terrible stuff is happening. Alligators on the floor, people jumping on pianos, earthquakes.

And you get, I thought the alligator thing was the whole thing is a sort of metaphor about, you've got an alligator by the tail because he becomes famous by being in people's dreams, which is nothing to do with him. And then what he does in the dreams, it's suddenly like the thing turns around and bites you. So I think on the one hand, it's about fame. On the other hand, it is about dreams and dream logic and dream worlds.

There are some very pointedly topical jokes. So when the whole thing goes south and he becomes toxic, he gets told, we can get you on Tucker Carlson and Joe Rogan, which I was obviously a joke that I enjoyed. And I think that the final, the final act of it doesn't quite work in which the final act sort of tries to tie things up in a kind of even chaos is marketable, even the unconscious is marketable. And I think that at that point, the thing went one step too far. But to be honest with you, I had such a good time

with the film up until that point, that the fact that it, for my money, it falls on its face in the final outcome. It's like, okay, it's okay, I can forgive it, because there is so much of it in which the absurd paranoia of I mean everyone's dreams, why am I in everyone's dreams? And also, you and I were talking about this on the way in this morning.

You said, you were talking about entitlement because you were talking about entitlement in relation to salt burn. And there's a weird thing that Nick Cage's character, he's downtrodden, you know, he's not, he's not a priestess, but he has got a sort of weird sense of entitlement and he kind of thinks the world owes him recognition, but he hasn't done anything. He keeps being resentful about the fact that everyone else has published books, but there

was an interview with you recently in a upmarket newspaper in which you said that one of the best pieces of advice you had ever read was, it's right, it becomes habit. Give me the correct quote. Oh, it was a Philip Pullman. Philip Pullman, yep. I'm just trying to remember, I had it written down, obviously, when I was being asked. And it was something about more book,

the paraphrase is more books are written by perspiration rather than inspiration. Thanks for your question, yeah. And it was the thing about, how do you become a writer? You write. And to say, I've got a book, have you written it? No.

Then you haven't got a book, whereas everybody else has written all this stuff, and they may be taking your ideas, they may be running with whatever, but they have produced it anyway. I thought it was really fascinating. I want to go back and see it again, because I enjoyed it an awful lot.

It falls flat in the last moment, but I can forgive it. Laura Welsh in Jersey. Yes. Sainamart, about the subject of present giving and the best way to approach it, which has been a subject which have been struggling with. Yes. Particularly with the festive season appearing. I wanted to introduce you to the Icelandic tradition of Jola Boccaflod, which translates directly as the Christmas Book Flood. Every year on Christmas Eve. The Christmas Book Flood. Yes, that's that. Every year on Christmas Eve, thousands of Icelanders, this is true.

I know I knew about this. Give each other books, which are, which are to be read immediately while drinking hot chocolate. It doesn't sound brilliant. Our book club adopted this a few years ago and it's now spread to my family, where we no longer give any other gift at Christmas. And instead, everyone exchanges a book and a bar of chocolate on Christmas Eve, both of which are to be enjoyed in bed. And I honestly can't think of a better way to smile at Christmas. Anyway, and it's also the beauty of this tradition is that no one can

complain about being given a book that they'd enjoy. It's easy to wrap and you can do all you're shopping in one place, win, win. Laura, thank you. That's fantastic. That's not going to be more Icelandic, I think. Let's just be in general. Yes, I just want to be in general. Yes, in general. It's the safest country in the world, apparently. Yeah, good. That's because if you're a criminal, why would you go there?

There's lots of eyes. Time for this week's list of correspondence. You can send yours if you want to tell us something. Correspondence at Kermit and Mayo.com. A touch of voice note like this. Hi, Sal Emma Mark. This is Chris from Kendall Mountain Trust Tool, the UK's biggest adventure festival. From the 16th to the 19th of November in the beautiful Lake District, we'll be showing 175 films with over 20 short film collection categories, stand-alone features, and a world to your opinion, and the UK premieres. Plus an incredible lineup of speakers and activities, there's truly something for everyone. You can even watch the films on our online play-out.

To find out more and get tickets please visit www.kendelmountainfestival.com. We look forward to sharing the adventure with you. Hi Simon and Mark, Michael here from the UK Jewish Film Festival, which runs in cinemas and online across London and around the country from 9th to 30th of November. We've got a fantastic lineup this year, with Anthony Hopkins starring in powerful true story One Life. Elliot Gold and Miriam Margulies are in animated feature my father's secrets, and is a programme packed with premieres of documentaries, dramas and comedies, including plenty of special guests and Q&As.

The tickets and the full lineup are at UKJewishFilm.org. So you get the general idea. Michael inviting us to the UK Jewish Film Festival happening in London around the UK and the very laid back Chris promoting Kendall Mountain Festival in Cumbria. Send us your voice. Now to correspondents at Curbinamo.com. That is the end of take one. This has been a Sony music entertainment production. The team was Lily Vicki, Zaki, Michael Tedi, Gully, Matiasi, Bethi, Hannery and Pooley. What was your film of the week? And that to be of a fall. But also lots of good films to be honest. It's honestly, this is one of the best weeks we've had for a while. Don't forget, take two has landed alongside this podcast,

lots of extra stuff, some more recommendations, bonus reviews, and on take three more questions, a few shmestions, and that will be with you on Wednesday. Thank you for listening.