Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Emma Thompson, Matilda the Musical, Bones and All, She Said & Pinocchio

Episode Date: November 25, 2022

The monstrous Miss Trunchbull is played by Dame Emma Thompson in the new musical film ‘Matilda the Musical’ - Simon talks to Dame Emma about this extraordinary role, and how Emma’s comprehensive prosthetics started at 5am each day! Mark reviews ‘Bones and All’ - a romantic horror road film by Luca Guadagnino, starring Timothée Chalamet Taylor Russell and Mark Rylance, ‘She Said’ - a biographical drama based on the 2019 book that follows the New York Times investigation that exposed Harvey Weinstein, ‘Matilda the Musical’ - based on the 1988 book by Roald Dahl with music by Tim Minchin, and the stop-motion animated ‘Pinocchio’ - a spin on the classic tale directed by Guillermo Del Toro. Plus your correspondence, the Box office Top 10, What’s On, the Laughter Lift and much more! You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media: @KermodeandMayo EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Somethin’ Else & Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Just noticing that the table, which we're both leaning on, is beginning to look a lot like Christmas. It is, isn't it? I always say detritus, but some people pronounce it differently. No, detritus. How is it? It's not detritus. Well, I've heard some people say that.

Well, anyway, because we've got like, because we've just done a big thing for our friends at Picture House, so we've got crackers and coins and jokes. Yeah. No hats, I don't think, were there any hats? Yes, there is a hat, there's there. Okay, do you want to wear that? No. Okay, meaning?

Look, because it's a first time, it appears to be a hat for somebody with a very small head. It's a baby, it's a baby hat. It's a baby hat, you want to give that to Grant Child one. Grant Child one. Very good. Okay, I'll take that. I don't think you'll be that just to me. Grant, he might eat it. You're lovely. No, we didn't Grand child one. Very good. Okay, I'll take that. I don't think you'll be that just to me. Grand day.

You might eat it. No, we didn't talk about that. You are. I bring greetings by the way. Don't tell him, Mike. For you. From Toby Jones. And from Emma Thompson, who was on the program today.

Yes. But they both asked after you. No. I mean, Toby, that's fine. But Emma Thompson asked after me. Yes. What did she say? Well, you know, how's Mark?

Okay. Okay. That kind of thing. But I bumped into Toby. So this is sort of a Toby Jones show, because we haven't had a Toby Jones show. Most of our shows have been known. No, it was Jones. Um, he was getting a suit, and I was buying a scarf.

And so he just had a nice little chat about the wonder and the film. Was he getting a fitted suit? Well, I'm not quite sure he was looking, he was just trying on suits, but he was looking fabulous. Where was this? Was it in an upmarket store, or was it my favorite store? Mark's and Spencer's washable range.

No, it wasn't. Well, it wasn't that. It was kind of, it was a nice, it was a nice enough shop in London's CD Soho. Was it? It was on Berwick Street. It was in Berwick Street. Great.

Okay, that's the place to get fitted up for a suit. He wasn't being fitted. It was just, it was an off the peg number. Anyway, Toby was the fabulous Toby, if you're listening. Thanks very much indeed for for being super true. I had a, you know, I had a suit made for me in Berwick Street and I put it on and was made for, you know, and I put it on in the good lady professor, her indoor, she said, you look like a million dollars. I said, that's because that's what it cost. That's how much it cost. Very good. So on the show today, Mark, what are you going to be reviewing? I'm speaking slowly so that you can catch up

and get to the right page. I'm going to be reviewing a bones and all. She said Pinocchio, Guillermo del Toro is Pinocchio and Matilda the musical, which brings us to our special guest, who is the aforementioned Day Memma Thompson, who plays Agatha Trunchbull, Miss Trunchbull in that their film. And as if that wasn't enough. On Monday for the Vanguard, we'll be going deeper into the world of film and film adjacent television, which I see we're still using as a phrase, with another extra take in which you'll

get a bonus review of Nanny, which is a really creepy chiller. Ah, okay, I'm not quite sure I like the sound of that. Is it got Jacob Reece Monk in there? Or J.A. would be a really creepy chiller. Hello, children. Guess who we've hired. All free today. We'll also be expanding your viewing in our feature.

One frame back inspired by Matilda, the musical, discussing role-dial adaptations of which We'll also be expanding your viewing in our feature, one frame back inspired by Matilda, the musical, discussing role-dial adaptations of which there have been many. And in taking all of it, you decide our word of a mouth podcast feature. I'm very excited to say Mark will be talking about. Well, and you kind of nudged me towards this and or the Star Wars prequel to the Inbetwequel. Yes, which might make you think I've been telling you about it. Star Wars prequel to the Inbetwequel. Yes. Which might make you think I've been telling you about it. It is where did that lamp come from?

Yeah. But it is actually kind of standalone. And in my opinion, brilliant. We'll discuss more with Andor on our take two. Please send your suggestions for elite streaming stuff because we just cannot keep up with everything. But if you've watched a series or a one-off film somewhere, and we haven't discussed it,

correspondence at curbinameo.com. Please do sign up to our premium value extra takes through Apple Podcasts, or if one prefers a different platform, one should head to extra takes.com. And we've got lots of super extra bonus material coming up over Christmas and New Year by the way. So there's never been a better time to sign up.

To do it, listen. If you're already a Vanguard Easter, as always, we salute you. And can we just say for next week's take it or leave it, you decide we've already decided off the back of the conversation that we were having on the way in next week, I'm going to be looking at the Netflix documentary

and what's it called? FIFA Uncovered. FIFA Uncovered. There's never been a better time to watch that documentary and then we can all say the stench that you can smell in your nostrils comes from FIFA. Auntie Helen has sent us an email.

A dear doctor's heritage listener, second time emailer. Last week, my twin nephews, Matt and Pete who live in Sydney, Australia, with my brother Anthony, they turned 15. They are huge movie buffs and are, in their words, your biggest fans. They have a varied and wide-ranging catalog of films under their belts at such a tender age. I've included one of their top 100 lists.

I'm reliably informed that this is an old list, as their favourites can change almost daily, but it will give you an idea. In fact, and in this list, which has got Amadea set 100 citizen cane at 99, portrait of a lady on fire at 98. Wow. Fantastic, Mr Fox is at 81, and Black Swan is at 79, but they've changed their minds and they've swapped those round.

That's how meticulous this is. This is a Nick Hornby book in the writing, isn't it? Exactly. For their 15th birthday treat, they watched Seven Samurai on DVD, but my brother had to import from America, and also the exorcist. They then spent the rest of the night watching the 10,000 clips of the good mark, Dr. Kermod, talking about it on the interweb. Sorry.

I know that your... sorry. What? Aren't you Helen as written? I know that a was up from your bad selves, which makes it sound toiletries. So anyway, I know that a was up from your bad selves would make that year, I don't think a was up, it's going to make anyone's here. Anyway, a was up does that look like another word for a peeing contest, doesn't it? So Matt and Pete

Was about ourselves would make their year and wouldn't hurt my cool anti-points either. I haven't seen them for three years what with one thing and another and our love of movies and your show helps us feel that we're not so far apart after all Keep up the good work. Tegetong and down with things that keep families from watching movies together from Auntie Helen. It's a really good list. Baby Driver 63, the good man, the ugly 68 in Bruce 70. So it's a really, it's the kind of list that you have time for when you're 15. Okay. But what's this only, we can only see up to number 50. I don't know what the top 50 are. That's the second lot. That's 51 to 100. What's number what's number one to 50? I don't know. Auntie Helen hasn't and unless it's been just cut off by the postal service. Super bad is one place above Parasite. What can you say? How old are they? 15. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Very good. Anyway, so thank you Auntie Helen. Correspondence at COVIDAmmena.com. And thank you for passing all that on. I hope you get out to Australia or they get to come and see Auntie Helen. Anyway, I want to leave plenty of time for our first review because I get the feeling that you are approaching it in the same spirit that Emma Thompson approached

being mistrunchable, which is to say, with plenty of relish. Yes. So Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio, which I think is the official full title, which is Netflix production. It's in cinemas now, and it's going to be on Netflix from December the 9th. And you'll remember a month or so ago, I said, I had met up with Guillermo, who I've I have known since the days of of Kronos, but we don't, we sort of see each other once every couple of years.

Yeah, so we had breakfast. And he said that he was just finishing the stop motion Pinocchio. He'd been over doing the, I think maybe the musical, the grading or something. And I said, what's it about? And he said, it's about death. Turns out it is about death and fascism,

which doesn't perhaps immediately sound like like that's of course the way. Doesn't sound like Christmas with the family, unless you have a very unpleasant family. And yet somehow it brilliantly is. He also says that it is the third part of a trilogy of films, the first two parts of which are the Devil's Backbone and Pan's Labyrinth, which are his Spanish language films, which are centrally concerned with the years around the Spanish Civil War and that kind of break between fantasy and reality. So this is a stop-motion adaptation of Pinocchio, which owes a certain debt to Grimley's illustrations, the kind of the sort of the race of stick-like figure of Pinocchio.

It's set in the 20th century in the Between the Wars period, and it's a complete reinvention. We don't have a clip, but we have the trailer, so I'll play you this just to get you in the mood, so if you, Simon, you can see what the animation looks like. Let's have a look. I want to tell you a story. It's a story you may think you know, but you don't. Over there! What is that?

Papa! It speaks! He's just a puppet! No, I'm not. I'm a real boy! People are sometimes afraid of things they don't know. I don't understand. Well, apart from that, it's a strange ending, even for a trailer. I think there was more of it.

Anyway, so stop motion, as you can see, it's got that very particular look. It's kind of hard to describe, other than to say, that it's got heft, it's got thumb prints, it's got tactility. And this is one of the things that stop motion brings. It's got rough edges. The puppet of Pinocchio is not smoothly carved or anything.

It looks raggedy. Rough-hune. Rough-hune is exactly the phrase I was looking for. So it begins with, Jepetto loses his beloved son, Carlo, during the First World War, during the Great War, because a bomb is dropped. It isn't even actually meant to be dropped.

It's just dropped because it's unloaded. He loses his son. He becomes so grief-stricken that in one drunken night he cuts down the tree by his son's grave and carves it into this ramshackle puppet saying, you know, I will make another version of my son. So there's nothing, there's nothing gentle about how this comes around. It literally comes out of grief and being overwhelmed by despair. The puppet is then given magical life by a spirit which bears a relationship to ferry

with turquoise hair or blue ferry that we think of. Anyway, it comes to life. I'm sorry, I don't know. Well, you know in the original story, the log that Pinocchio is carved from is kind of magically a life in beginning, because the log actually kicks Jepetto early on. And then there are other versions of how... There are many versions of how Pinocchio comes to life. Crucially, Pinocchio comes to life, and Jepetto is initially terrified of this whirling dervish

that's running around the house and smashing things and breaking things, and you know, it's literally like a force of nature. However, they then settle down into a kind of relationship which is almost manageable. Jepetto has to go to the church where the huge big crucifix has been damaged from the previous story they saw before. And he takes Pinocchio with him and at the church, the congregation say, demon child, demon, magical puppet, and Pinocchio looks up at this crucified Christ, which looks like an outtake from the devils incidentally, and says, how come everyone loves him? He's wouldn't. Why do they love him and not me? So in the

very set of it, we have all these things that are absolutely central to Guillermo del Toro's core personal, you know, lapsed Catholic, monsters, not monstrous ideas. And then what happens is the story then follows the misadventures of Pinocchio. I mean, it has, it walks in parallel with the original story as all adaptation. I mean, the first adaptation of Pinocchio is 1911. Then of course, everyone remembers the Disney adaptation in 1914. And then most recently, we had that absolutely ghastly Robert Zamekis version, which was, you know, live action, but just absolutely horrible and hollow.

And then the Matteo Garoni version, quite recently, and this is a story that keeps getting retailed. But so it walks alongside that story as all adaptations do. And it raises a bunch of philosophical questions, one of which is how come they love him, this tortured, crucified, wooden Christ, and not me? One of the other questions it raises is, how can Mussolini's fascists use an unkillable wooden soldier as a weapon? So it has the politics and the personal stuff that has been deeply embedded in all of Guillemars work

and I can see absolutely why it is that he associates it with Devils backbone and pans, lab rinse because they're so specifically tied up with those concerns. Yes, there is a conscience in the form of a talking cricket but it's not the kind of Jiminy cricket figure that you might remember from Pinocchio. I mean, obviously, I'm because in the original Pinocchio, the original Pinocchio story,

the cricket gets killed. Pinocchio kills the cricket. He really throws a mallet at him and he accidentally kills the cricket and then it's the ghost of the cricket. The original Pinocchio story is very, very dark and very, very strange. What I really loved about this, apart from the way it looked, apart from the fact that it's got a lovely score and some songs, there's one song called Chappapa, which Gemadil Toro co-wrote the lyrics. And I think they're putting it forward for Oscar consideration. And it's really,

you know, it's one of those things it just absolutely gets you in the fields, you know, gets you in the heartstrings. The thing I really like about it is of all the adaptations of Pinocchio that have gone before, the thing this is closest to is AI. It is actually thematically quite similar to Spielberg's AI. I love AI, I didn't love it when I first saw it, I completely misjudged it and then I did a total 360 degrees, no, actually 180 degrees, because 360 gets you back where you started in the first place. I did a complete 180 on it, and I now think it's Spielberg's masterpiece. Like that film, this has concerns that has to do with Mary Shelley and Frankenstein, and you know, creators and creations and monsters and monstrousness and what is actually monstrous.

And also it has a very interesting similarity in terms of the way it deals with the wish to become a real boy. Because if you remember AI, AI has a brilliant way of solving that problem, which is it's really to do with narrative poetry. And I think there's a lot of that in this. I thought it was moving, I thought it was daring, I think, I think it has a really progressive attitude to the subject of life and death. And Wengie almost said, it's about death, which is a subject with which I'm rather preoccupied at the moment. I thought this was a really genuinely thoughtful and positive way of reminding us of that thing that the thing that gives life purpose is that it's, that it's fleeting.

And only if that's the case, can you really understand what it means to be alive? It is the very transient nature of life that makes it powerful. And it deals with this in a way that, I mean, obviously this isn't a kids cartoon, but I think it is a PG certificate. I think it's for grown up kids of all ages. Bits of it are really scary. Bits of it are really funny. Bits of it are really moving. And once again it just reminds us that there is nobody in the world doing monster stories like I mean we were talking recently about Guillermo Datoris Cabinet of Curiosity's which has all these brilliant episodes that are directed by Jennifer Ken and directed by Annalylie Amipore. He really does embrace monsters and love monsters and makes fairy tales that are about that.

And I think, finally, he's blending of the personal and the political is second to none. I thought this was just fabulous. Anyway, it's in cinemas and then it's going to be on Netflix, but I would say see it in a cinemas because, wow, still to come. Oh, still to come. Hey, Jade. Thank you. I'll be reviewing, she said, which is a new movie,

which I have some interesting stuff to say about the box of his Instany in America and Matilda the Musical. And you can invite chat with Emma Thompson, who plays the formidable Miss Trunchbull in that their film. Time for the ads, unless you're in the Vanguard, in which case we'll be back before you can say, Andre Villas Boas. Hi, esteemed podcast listeners, Simon Mayo.

I'm Mark Kermot here. I'm excited to let you know that the new season of the Crown and the Crown, the official podcast returns on 16th of November to accompany the sixth and final season of the Netflix epic Royal drama series. Very exciting, especially because SuperSub and Friend of the Show Edith Bowman hosts this one. Indeed, Edith will take you behind the scenes, dive into conversation with the talented cast and crew, from writer and creator Peter Morgan to the crown's Queen Elizabeth in Mel Distanton. Other guests on the new series include the Crown's research team, the directors, executive producers Suzanne Mackie and specialists such as Voice Coach William Connaker and props

master Owen Harrison. Cast members including Jonathan Price, Selim Dor, Khalid Abdullah, Dominic West and Elizabeth DeBicki. You can also catch up with the story so far by searching the Crown, the official podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe now and get the new series of the Crown, the official podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe now and get the new series of the crown, the official podcast first on November 16th. Available wherever you get your podcasts.

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always something new to discover, for example. Well, for example, the new Aki Karazaki film Fallen Leaves, which won the jury prize at Cannes, that's in cinemas at the moment. If you see that and think I want to know more about Aki Karazaki, you can go to Mooby the streaming service and there is a retrospective of his films called How to Be a Human. They are also going to be theatrically releasing in January Priscilla, which is a new Sophia couple of film, which I am really looking forward to since I have an Elvis obsession. You could try Mooby free for 30 days at Mooby.com slash Kermed and Mayo. That's M U B I dot com slash Kermed

and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. Okay, so so we're back box office top 10 coming up. Let's talk about glass onion and knives at mystery first of all. Yes. It's not in the chart because, as we explained last week, it's cinemas for one week. And also Netflix. I know they've recently talked about changing this, but Netflix didn't ever release box office figures. Yeah. So it's interesting that it's just not in the 10,

but it may well be that as you talk about last week, everybody is waiting to watch it at Christmas when you can gather the family around the telly, and you can watch it, which is, and that's when you'll be able to hear the interview that we've done for this program with Daniel Craig and Rangons. Yes. Simon Mark says, Des Eddie McGrath, thanks Des Eddie. Simon Mark, in Mark's review for the menu, he claimed that the film was a mere appetizer for glass onion. This is an instance where the pre-mail is more substantive than the main course. When the tension in the menu ratchets up, you lean in. When the tension in glass onion ratchets

up, you drop out. For all of Johnson's excess plotting, the progress of the main story runs along familiar lines. While who does what to who and why is baffling to begin with? Like a magician moving on to further illusions in order to obfuscate the obviousness of their first trick, I just don't think that the elements that lead up to the ending are subtly or effectively dealt to us. Ultimately, this is a film geared towards the performances and the acting is the most undermined element of the film.

It is oppressively sleek and charmless. It seems designed to be watched at home on TV, very Netflix, with too many Arlen's close-ups. While Yedlins overly saturated grading makes everyone look plastic, with sickly skin tones, hardly the suave evil under the sun vibes that the production team were aiming for. Let's hope the next knives out film has a sure script and isn't compromised in the same way that Covid clearly affected the production of glass onion. Then again, you look at what the menu achieved with a much smaller budget and there is clearly no substitute for creativity. A withering review, I think. Well, that's fine that's fine. I mean, it's a diversity of views is an interesting and positive thing.

I don't feel that way. But I don't think the menu is as clever or as creative as the email does. But then, you know, hey, the menu has interestingly performed far better at the box office than it was expected to do. And we'll return to this when we address the subject of she said, which is had a fairly catastrophic opening in America, although I think there is an industrial reason for that, which we'll get to.

Yeah. The Yedlin referred to in Des Edie McGrath's email is Steve Yedlin, the cinematographer. Yeah. So box office top 10, act 24 here and nowhere in America. Well, it's not charted anyway. One piece film red. Now, we have an email and one piece film record.

Obviously, I hadn't seen it when it came out, but we said, if you've seen it, let us know. And- Andy Harako, possibly Harako, says, the film is a jarring mix of story and music videos, which sit ad-ords with each other, clumsily implemented, and the songs were incredibly cringe-worthy. The plot is incredibly convoluted,

even for one piece's standards, and poorly-paced, resulting in a big-baddy final battle, which feels wholly unearned and very hollow, and despite the fantastic animation on display, failed to deliver on any level, apart from pure spectacle. Wow. Ultimately, this film left me disappointed

as both a fan of the series and of the medium. I'm happy that it's made such a hit in the box office, but it's very unfriendly to those who are not familiar with one piece, like my poor suffering wife, because they do nothing to introduce the characters, and the side characters that are introduced to both obscure and have no explanation. For those who are fans, it left a sour taste in their mouths as they just cheaply flogged beloved characters for no rhyme or reason and with no relevance to the plot or depth to their already existing lore in the

show. Another withering review. It's just time for Andy. That doesn't make you want to go into this. It doesn't. No. So I think probably I'll give that a miss. Number 10 here, number 13 in the state's triangle of sadness. Well, it's interesting. That is starting to show up in people's top 10 best films of the year list, which I'm surprised by. I mean, I know it won the Palm Door.

I think it's a flawed film, and I actually think it's Osslin's least interesting film, although Harris-Tigginson is terrific in it. but the message is very much as the message of the menu, these rich people are quite annoying. Who does thought it? No. Yes, and for Trangol I'm saying this also, arms dealers. I mean, who would have thought it? Who would have thought it? Not very nice. Number nine here is Drisham 2, which is the sequel to Drisham? Yes. Which is the sequel to...

Drishyam? Yes, you're getting really good at this. I love it, I love it. It's also, it's a remake. This is the Hindi remake of the Lionel and Crime Thriller from last year, which they announced immediately was going to be remade. So far, this is the ninth highest-grossing Hindi film

of 2022. Wasn't pressed screened last week, but I will try and catch up with it. Number eight is Liste Du M5. And this again wasn't pressing. This is a Polish language release. It is the fifth and apparently final instalment in the Christmas themed series of which I haven't seen any. Do we have any? No, we don't. So if you've seen any of these, please let us know, because this is subject about which I know nothing at all. So you can be part of our festive season,

because I would like to talk about this. And I almost certainly, therefore, if this is a Polish me, I've probably got that pronunciation completely wrong. So please tell us more about these movies, and then we can include that in our future programs. After Sun is number seven and number 20 in the US. One of the best films of the year by some distance, you did a terrific interview with the star of the film and it's Paul Mezcal. I think that without wishing to just revisit last week's review, it is one of the best evocations of memory.

I had a really interesting conversation with Kato Ishiguru, the very celebrated novelist and screenwriter. Let's just relish those words. Can you just try them past us again? You, you what, sorry, I missed that. I had a really interesting conversation with Kato Ishiguru.

As you should go. about cinema's ability or inability to capture memory. How do you just pop round? He was in the new forest. I thought, I know. Where can I go? Anyway, I said we have different views on the subject, but I said I think after sun is one of the most perfect evocations of memory that I can remember and I love them and I think you were a fan of it too.

There's an email from Joseph in Brighton, dear David and Freddie, long time listening, first time email. I've just walked home from the Duke of York in Brighton, having listened to under pressure on loop and having watched After Sun on my own on a cold Sunday night. I'm writing this in the week I turn from 131 to 132, I'm not quite sure about why I said that. Anyway, as dad to a three-year-old daughter, I entered the cinema half knowing the emotional masochism I was about to inflict. But what pulled the Turkish rug out from underneath me, is a reference to a particular scene in the film where Paul Muskel buys a Turkish rug, was the subject of my meltdown as the film swelled to its crescendo. I think this is important

stuff for you to know before you go and see after. I am prone to spending my days gazing at my daughter, I am prone to spending my days gazing at my daughter. Taking photos of her and filling any gap in conversation, recounting her latest turns of phrase or acts of bravery, she dominates as every toddler should. And so I expected my anguish to center around Sophie, who's the daughter in the movie, and whether she was going to be okay, whether she was getting all she needed from those that love her. But as I watched after son, click and clack along, I realized that my gut was wrenching for her dad, poor mascot's character, he's angst, he's imperfection, he's love and need for love, when the camera lingered too long on shots of the water. When

gliders swung and dangled on the breeze, or when calum let conversations drift and die as he realised he didn't have the answer, or at least not the right answer, my fear grew for him and not Sophie. As a young parent who is mostly okay but sometimes not okay, when calum flailed in the strobe and clutched onto Sophie like a raft in a storm. I saw myself reflected, me being centered and brought home by my daughter. In the matter of just a few moments revealing my flaws, feeling their impact, seeing the guilt in my eyes and forgiving me, one day I'll play this film to her. I haven't seen anything else that explains how I feel so accurately. So take a deep tonk-hole route down with heads of sporting federations,

hijacking other people's legitimate grievances. So first of all, Joseph, what an immaculately written email that is and a very fine payoff, which takes us back into the realms of FIFA. But he's entirely right. You know, we did mention. He's entirely right. And Paul Maskell was on that,

if you don't know nothing about that, you do go into it worried and concerned because you don't know what kind of film it's going to be. But you can understand Joseph's point of view, he's with his young daughter, actually ending up feeling sorry for the position that he was in and the father was in. I agree. On the subject of that piece of music, you said you've been listening to Under Pressure. The thing you should seek out, which is credited to Oliver Coates and Queen with David Bowie, Oliver Coates is the composer for the film

and it's called Last Dance. And that is the version of Under Pressure with just the vocals, but given the accompanied by Oliver Coates in which the cello takes the Freddie Mercury line about halfway through. And if that scene profoundly affected you, don't just go back and listen to under pressure, listen to last dance by Oliver Coates and Queen with David Bowie, which is the version that they use in the film and it's absolutely remarkable. Number six in the UK number 10 in America,

the banshees of Inner Sharon. I mean, Quentin Tarantino, idiot that he is, said, Selim asked him, well, I said, he's never been, he didn't say in that voice, obviously. You know, he said, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean,

I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean,

I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I and after sun grow up. Also at number five, living. Yeah. And again, there you go. Quentin, stick that in your pipe. Because it's, because that's fantastic as well. A black Adam's at number four. Yeah, that's rubbish. Number three here, seven in America,

Lyle L. Crocodess. Yeah, that's rubbish as well. But you know, Quentin, you've got a point. Yeah. The menu is at number two here. We're here kind of discussed've got at the discussion. And number two in America. Dear Amos Bouch and Entrez says Charlotte,

whilst Anya Taylor Joy does light up this mildly amusing yet uncomfortable film, it was ultimately lacking in the same love that needs to be infused into the creation of anything truly special that Taylor Joy's character points had in the film is missing from the titular menu. I was not unentertained. There we go. We have discussed this before. I was not unentertained, which is not the same as being entertained. But in the end, I left with a sense of irony that this was a film trying

to portray pretentious people as annoying, whilst being annoyingly pretentious itself, and employing as its star, an actor who is undoubtedly incredibly talented and wonderful. But he does insist that his name is pronounced rape, when everyone can see that it's Ralph pretentious, more of that later. Ultimately says Charlotte, none of the characters were rounded out sufficiently for me to feel too strongly either way

About whether they died or not and whilst I'm not sure if that's intentional To me it feels as though the whole film should have evoked stronger emotions in me than it did as Taylor Joyce character Margot says in the film even the hot dishes were served cold, including the flambé desert course, or even dessert course. Hello to Jason Dauw and all-narts, his pretentious or otherwise, and thank you for the ongoing wittering just as engaging in the new format as ever. L-T-L, an intermittent emergency email. Thank you, Charlotte.

It is interesting that when I was watching the film and they got to the scene in which Aniotaila Joy explains exactly that I did think, you know, that is the definition of a hostage to fortune because if you're feeling a little, it is literally like the film stops and somebody does a critique, you go, um, oddly enough, the only thing I would say is, bear in mind, the menu is a comedy. I mean, it's not, you know, it is, it is a dark comedy, but it is technically a comedy. And I remember seeing, um, a thing in which, uh, John Stewart was on, uh, crossfire in which, uh, he had said that crossfire was the worst program in the world and that it was actually destroying civilization. And who's that idiot, Tucker Carlson, when he was on Crossfire, was saying, well, you know, you had interviewed somebody

and you gave them a softball political question and John Stuart went, I'm on Comedy Central. You know, this is your job. Okay, so John Stuart is great. Yeah. And Tucker Carlson is a moral. The UK number one and the US number one, Black Panther, Wakanda forever. My plan, I mentioned last week that I'd only seen half the film because the projector broke in Copenhagen. And I'd only seen the first half and I didn't understand any of the bits that were in Swahili. I didn't get the call. Yes, because I didn't get the line because it's all in Danish subtitles. So my views are inherently wrong. But child one is returning to the UK this weekend

briefly, because there's a friend's do that he's come back for. We're trying to work out whether we can arrange to see the second half of the film in English. And then so we can... Would you see the first half? I guess you won't go in halfway through. Because that would be rude and annoying. I read a book or something. But anyway, yes, I'd quite like to see it so I can catch up. So at least I can have a coherent opinion. I'm pleased it's done this well because you know, I do like, I have reservations about it largely. I think that the the Avatar creatures and the underwater stuff I'm not particularly bothered about, but I do think it is, it does have an elijic feeling to it and I thought, you know, there were elements in it

that really moved me. Elijic or elijic? Have I said that wrong all these years? I think it is't either either, neither nor in Northern. I believe that's the case, but then I pronounce so many words wrong. As you said, what's the thing that I do erudite, which apparently is wrong? You put in an extra syllable.

So I say O-Tur, I mean it's O-Tur, isn't it? Because it's all, you know, it's, I don't think that matters. It doesn't ever come up really. No, no. Anyway, so let's come into our very fine guest on this week's program, who is none other than your favorite? Everyone's favorite.

Everyone's favorite, Dame Emma Thompson, who is the one of the stars of Matilda, The Musical, and you can hear my conversation with her after this clip. It's not sure. It is my belief that Matilda, one, would is a genius. What? No.

No. Haven't I just told you she is a gangster? She can do maths in a head that I can do with a calculator. And the pubs, she's red. It is my opinion that she should be placed in the top form with the 11-year-old immediately. But what about the rules, honey?

I believe the Matilda won with this... an exception to the rules. An exception to the rules. In my school. And that's a clip from Matilda, The Musical. I'm delighted to say that Emma Thompson is one of the stars of the film, one of the scary stars of the film. Hello, Emma, how are you? I'm fine, sorry, I'm going to be lovely to see you.

It's very, very nice to see you. It's always fatal to assume that listeners know exactly what the story is, but I am going to make a few assumptions that people are familiar with the story of Matilda. But introduces to Trunchbull, your Trunchbull, which is an extraordinary creation. So... Well, our director Matthew Watcher said she's got to be absolutely real. So, okay, but she's also a monster. So, I'm going to make this monster real. So, I thought, who can I find that I could base her on even? I'd just done some work on this concept I weird, but Edith sit well. And her childhood, when she was very unusually tall, like Trunchball, and she

had a bent nose and her parents used to tie her into these iron contraptions to try to straighten her spine and her nose. She was made to sleep in these things and I thought that's a form of torture and it could turn you into a monster. It didn't with the edith because she had nice brothers and she managed and she turned into a poet and then ended up interviewing Marilyn Monroe in Hollywood. But if it had all gone the other way, she might have been like Trunchball. So I said to Matthew, how about this? That Trunchball isn't cruel to children because she doesn't like children. She's cruel because she can't bear her own vulnerability.

And so it's a kind of an attempt to just stamp it down and stamp it out because she was so helpless when she was little. So we went quite deep into the personality and it helped me an awful lot actually in the end too, because she's a murderer at Trunchbull. She's actually a murderer. It's hilarious, really, how dark, dull, dead to go in his writing.

Was it important for you to go that deep into the character? Because I think most people in their memory of Trunchbull would think of her just as a monster. And I don't really care how she got to be like that. All we know is that we hate her, and we hope she gets her a come-up and so then we can can cheer at the end. But that obviously wasn't enough for you. No, I don't think that would have been terribly interesting. And what I liked was at the end when she's really lost her marbles, there's a kind of desperate vulnerability to her

at the end. And you think, oh dear, oh dear, dear, dear, that's not good, that's awful. And that is so much more interesting than just hating someone because they're one dimensionally unpleasant. And it's like mefistophiles, isn't it? The fall and angel, you think, well, there's gotta be some pain in there somewhere, hasn't it? However dreadful he is.

Describe physically becoming transphobic. What introduced to what you look like? What do we see on camera? Okay so the whole process would start at about five o'clock in the morning when I would sit down and these extraordinary artists Chloe and Emma would attach pieces of prosthetics in my face. So I had, so I had if you can imagine this listeners, a big old jaw but made out of three pieces, two big cheek pieces and one chin piece, all sort of together. So it was like putting on a sort of a half a mask and then I had a nose and I had earlobes and then having glued it on, then it had to be painted.

So Naomi, who was also part of the team, and there were six people basically created Trunchball. I was just having to be one of them. I was just inside, and they painted it like artists, you know, with these very fine paint brushes. So she looks completely real, even when you're close up to her. Tiny little veins on your face. The broken veins from too much whatever. And punching little hairs into the, it was a very painstaking process.

And following that, I had this massive body suit because of course she's a hammer-thrower. So she has this huge muscular frame. And underneath that, I used to wear a little t-shirt which has got little runnyles, plastic tubes and you can push on a sputter through it to keep the body cool because once you've got the body suit on and then a very heavy canvas costume with a belt with all the whistles and hammers and unpleasant insumments of torture, the truncheville carries around with her. You get very, very hot. If you get

too hot, the prosthetics start to slide off your face. And then you're looking at tens of thousands of pounds while you wait and waste the cruise time putting your prosthetics back on. So it's a huge endeavor. And my job, I suppose, is an actor, is once it's all on, I've got to make it real. It's like animating something from the inside. You have to climb and you have to sing. You have to be... Really physical. Yeah, absolutely. And we did all the singing live which was very exciting but also terrifying and some days were very hot, really hot. Then I did all my stunts which actually I just loved but climbing up this 80 foot frame, climbing frame and then standing on there and singing live.

The first time I did it, my knees were shaking all the way through because I was so scared because the platform I was standing on was only about a foot wide And then I got attached to this mechanical arm Which then lifts you up and puts you to Horizontal and then flings you about the place for when I get chucked out of the window Well, you certainly seem to play the role with relish. Yes, channeling you're in a dominant rub Although he denies the charges, but I would imagine that you were when you're in a dominant rub, although he denies the charges. But I would imagine that you were, when you're in full costume as you just described and you, most of the sets of,

a full of children I imagined, you must have been pretty scary, even if you were just sitting there being Emma underneath it all, they would have been, did you have to be reassuring to them? Did you crack Joe's thoughts? Someone else has asked me that, but no, because of course, they came on set, they didn't see Trunchbull. They did rush me and hugged me and said, there's no movies, no movie. And Matthew Ward said, could you please stop hugging the children? There's a post to be frightened of you,

but I loved them so much. I was so admiring of them. They'd all been working and dancing and rehearsing for 18 months. There were 210 children. And they were, they worked like Trojans. They were totally heroic, I have to say. I asked that scary question because it's a PG certificate. And role dial does dark as everybody knows.

And at the screening that I was at, which was a wash with children, listening to other conversations as I went out, they were all saying that they'd enjoyed it but they were scared. The disease scary film, which is a triumph isn't it, Tamiya? They'd enjoyed it, when they say scared, did they mean traumatized and needing therapy later? More, no. Or scared in a kind of delicious way. Deliciously scared. I can't speak for them, but that was my reading object. But that's ideal, isn't it?

I mean, that's what I like. I like even now if I want going to be scared and not very good at watching scary films, but I do like there to be an element of deliciousness. How'd you seen the musical? Yes, oh, absolutely. And I'd seen the brilliant vertical of all playing Tronchball and written him a fan letter.

So I was very scared to have to follow in his genius footsteps. I tried very hard not to do the voice that he'd done as well. A very different, very different obviously to the Danny DeVito version which was done. Is that even helpful to watch that? No, no, no, no, That's completely different read of it. And much more sort of gentle actually in a way. Very much of its time, I think.

Wonderful. So... We have to talk about Alicia Weir, who plays Matilda. I interviewed Tim Minchin recently. And he said, I mean, obviously, he's... They're... These are his songs, extraordinary songs, but he says she puts in the best child performance he has ever seen in any film ever. What is your take on what she did? without any form of precarcity, just calmly, professionally, and doing what she does with great joy. You're really incredible.

And what she does is, is startling, actually. Does this show convince you? It's so convincing. She has to be a small child who is very brave and very grown up, really. And in a way, it feels like a grown up children's film. Yeah, I would think that's right. You couldn't take very little ones, I think,

might be a bit tricky, but you could, I mean, it depends, you know, now I'm a fee scurry too. I think four. Is that any more, feel the musical still? Yeah. About to happen? Well, it's not about to happen, but we're doing the next workshops in February.

We're working on it. And I hadn't heard you sing. I know you're in a musical when you're in your 20s, I think, in the West End, but I hadn't heard you sing. I just wondered whether any of your experiences with Matilda will feed into an anime with fear the musical? Absolutely. I mean, just how devilishly difficult it is

to write a musical, Tim, score, Chris Knighting, Gell's musical direction. You know, that's all such a lesson for us, for me, for my composer, Gary Clark, and our director Katie Robby. We're just, it's just working out how to work up a score into a story. I mean, Matilda's such a wonderful example. I mean, it's sort of exemplary. This is a quote from you, Emma. I'm glad. And I just was interested to hear your thoughts

by Nick. You said, I think it was, you were quoted in the Guardian, that producing work for children is the most sacred work we have. This is the time I think when it was when Matilda was being shown at the London Film Festival. I did. I thought that was just a very interesting idea. What were you getting at? Well, I'm getting at the fact that as an audience, they're so receptive and so open they are so receptive and so open that it's terribly important that what we do for them is the best that we can do. They're in a sense our most important audience because if you remember the things that affected you

and developed you, art that you saw when you were young, it's crucial things that I would brought up with were crucial to me, starting with Beatrix Potter. So, yes, I do think of it as sacred. I was just going to ask you just briefly about Stephen Graham and Andrew Riesbro, who play the tool as parents. And they're fantastic and we know exactly the kind of people that we are, we read the books, and so on. But I wondered whether two things, if we got time. One is, do you think role dial was a snob? Because they are sort of working class parents

who don't really get literature and so on. And I just wondered whether you thought there was, I mean, other people have accused them of that. Do you know, I mean, he very possibly was, but I don't know. I've never read a biography of his. I was aware of all the anti-Semitic controversy. So I don't know whether he was a snob.

I actually don't know whether he was a snob. I actually don't know. Lots of writers have represented people with no access to literature in that way. I don't think he's the only one. But I've no idea Simon, I'm not even trying to sidestep it. I just don't know enough about him as a person. Maybe an easy question, with your Professor Trelawney hat on. I wonder if they may be they were the starting point for the Durslays. Does it remind me a little bit of the Harry Potter setup? Yes.

Yes, again. You remember? I don't know. I don't even have to ask, Day K, rolling about that. I have no idea. What do we see you in next? Well, it's my McCartes delightful romantic comedy, what's Love

Got To Do with it, which opens in January, and that's... She just wrote a beautiful, very loving, very outlifting script, and God knows we need beautiful loving and uplifting at the moment more than we need anything else. We do. Emma Thompson, thank you so much for talking to us. Thanks for having me. I was sort of seeking enlightenment at the end on the, because it just struck me that they're a little bit dursely-esque

that family. Yeah. And the thought that maybe in amongst the anti-Semitism role del was a snob as well. So Marx thought so until the matter's arising, just because these things annoy me. The worrying that you heard after about two minutes was someone's laptop in the room. And we just just... Not mine, because I wasn't in the room.

Yeah, I wasn't in the room. You weren't there, it was someone's laptop, part of the crew. And so it's all set up for film crews. So the sound, the slightly unusual sound is because the microphone that I'm using is like three feet above my head, which is why it sounds distressingly un-miked, I think. But that's TV sound for you. They're not quite so concerned as radio folks. Anyway, Matilda, the musical, it's the Tim mentioned musical, as we mentioned. I loved it. What did you think?

Well, I didn't see the musical stage show, which I have to say, having seen the film I now want to go and see the stage show. So just because you said at the beginning, obviously, we assume that everyone knows the story, but crucially, the story is very, very talented young girl in a family with two parents who don't want her at the very beginning. We see the mother guy, I'm not pregnant. Oh, I'm having a baby. Why do all the terrible things happen to us, the father then wants a son, and then in fact refers to Matilda for the rest of the thing as boy, because I can't quite get it. It's handled about the fact that he's got a daughter. She then escapes in inverted commas to a school, which on the one hand is a great liberation,

but on the other hand, is ruled over by Trunchball, played by Emma Thompson. But also has this teacher, Ms. Honey, played by La Shana Lynch, who we were talking about in no time to die, the Bond film, who was in the Debbie Tucker Green film, if right, I for real. You know, and he was a really, really brilliant actor

who you can watch the whole of Matilda and not realize that, yes, that same person you saw being really, really imposing. It's now Miss Honey. Exactly, in the James Bond film. So firstly, I mean, the obvious stuff, the songs are very, very good. You and I were talking last night, but I came and stayed in your house because of Lady in the van. Yeah. Um, that the alphabet song, which is really clever, when you don't realize

that it's doing the alphabet thing until you see it the second time. Very early on when she's gone to school for the first time. Yeah. And you realize that somehow they're working the out, but it's just smart. It's just like in a really, really kind of clever word play way. The revolting children and revolting some song is an absolute banger, isn't it? So, the songs are great. The story itself is one which has been told several times. I do have a great fondness for the Danny DeVito version. Obviously, the Danny DeVito version transposes it to America. And actually, when you were referring to the thing about

is, is Dallas Snov. It is interesting in the DeVito version because America's class structure is so different to our class structure that it doesn't appear to be snobbish. That thing about when he says, you know, why do you want books when you've got a perfectly good television? That actually was funny that I only having listened to your interview for, oh, yeah, that is an interesting point that when it's on home ground, you can perhaps interpret it that way. I think the young star, as you said, is absolutely absolutely brilliant. He's at least wish so she's 14. Is that right? 13 at the moment. Okay. I mean, just an absolute barrel load of energy. And there was a funny thing when Emma Thompson said, the kids work like Trojans. Well, that's against the law. They're really left work for us. We didn't confide in the child labor laws. They work like Trojans. And also, this is Matthew, is it Marcus or

what just, how do you print it? I haven't pronounced, I haven't actually said the way I had, I think she said, walk us. Walk us, beg your pardon, okay. So that's who of course is the brilliant director of pride. I mean, the theatre director, and of course, you know, I've done this in the theatre, but directed pride, which I remember reviewing so well when it came out because I just love that film. I've gone back and seen it several times since then. It is absolutely joyous and uplifting. I think I was in the art of man when we reviewed that film. I think I did an outside broadcast from the art of man, which is one of the reason I have

particularly happy memories of it. I think that it goes out of its way to be cinematic. It goes out of its way not to be a stage show on screen. And I think generally, it manages to get that. There are a couple of moments when it felt a little bit like it's good, it's not brilliant, but it's good, but I want to see the stage show, which kind of made me think, okay,

sometimes the effort towards being cinematic almost became almost sort of drew attention to the fact that it's being cinematic. But you know, you'd have to be pretty hard-hearted not to be just won over by the story because I mean, things, you know, scenes that we all know, they are, what's the best way of saying this? I got the feeling that everybody in the frame, and actually everybody behind the camera as well, was giving it 110%. And occasionally, it didn't entirely work for me, but it never didn't work because I thought anybody was just doing a job or work. I mean, it felt like it was, you know, like it was being made by people that really wanted it to be the best it could be.

And the fact that they were singing live, yes, which plays great dividends. Sometimes you can't tell, but the way she was describing it, like being up a frame eighty-three in the end, which is incredibly high and singing live, that's going to terrify anybody. I have to say, also, Emma Thompson in singing live, that's gonna terrify anybody. I have to say also, Emma Thompson in Headmistress roles is a fantastic thing. I was referring you the other day too,

that marvellous thing in an education, with Carrie Mulligan, in which she's the headmistress figure and Carrie Mulligan says, you know, something like, I'm a woman and there was one who says, you're not a woman. And she just says,

this is such a wither, meaning you're still a child, you know, in such a withering way. So it's clearly she's relishing the heck out of playing this role. Absolutely. Also, in that interview, in the first three minutes, she did edith sit well, mefist off the lease. It was like, I'm sorry, if only everyone could... It was a very area tight.

It was very area tight. Conversation. And iron, iron clad logic. It's the ads in a minute, Mark. But first, it's time once again to step into our laughter lift. Oh, really? Yes. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, kind of thing. Anyway, but I have to say, I'm a big fan of the Middle East. Last time I was out there, it was for a musical talent competition.

I was singing in Bahrain. It's hard like that. Very good. Do you know I'm a bit of a mixologist? No. Unfortunately, the good lady's ceramicist, Herendol's, gets really cross when I mess with her beloved red wine. So I added two muddled oranges, 500 grams of chopped strawberries, peaches, apples and pears, a double shot of

brandy and one of Quantro, and 500 milliliters of lemonade. Now she's sangria than ever. Now she's sang at me ever. I mean, it doesn't really work if I have to look at you to see. Anyway, and she has ever so annoyed by my puns as well, Mark, and I can't imagine why. In fact, my whole writing career was sparked by one of her remarks. She said one day, why didn't she write a book instead of your stupid wordplay jokes? And I said, that's another idea. TikTok, a time thriller of the year 2022 now available for just £6. £6! £6! £6! £6! £6! £6!

For all those words. A little stocking suggestion. Anyway, what's still to come? page 15. I know, I know, there's 14, page 15. What's to come? How are we reviewing? I've got it. Oh, it just says, Mark, responds. No, it says, Mark says, I'll be reviewing. And then you take it.

You read it out, it's not on my page 15. What are you gonna be reviewing in the time that's left? Oh, I'm going to be reviewing. Oh, she said, I'm going to be reviewing Nanny and I think that's probably it unless there's something else. Have you kind of lost it all to them? But it's always in take to get it. Anyway, so back in a moment once Marcus got his stuff together, I can't read scripts unless... It's not news!

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A couple of emails before we go any further. A couple of weeks ago we had an email from Saham Husaini who had used our NordVPN discount because it's one of the things that we've been advertising. For some protesters in Iran who, according to Saham, needed them desperately. This is certainly an angle that we hadn't actually thought about. Anyway, NordVPN have been in touch, and they've sent us this. Quote, everyone should be able to access the internet in private. It's what's interesting about this is, it's a commercial, it's an ad, but actually ties in directly to

one of the big international stories of the moment. Everyone should be able to access the internet in private without the fear of being watched or controlled, and yet too many people around the world live under heavy censorship and surveillance or are silenced for expressing their opinions. NordVPN stands for digital freedom and helps people securing their private data and providing open access to the internet. If you are facing extensive online censorship, targeted surveillance or the threat of violence, contact NordVPN and request a free emergency VPN service immediately to protect your privacy. With NordVPN, you can securely bypass online restrictions and keep your communications away from prying eyes, or you can simply go to this link, nordvpn.org slash emergency hyphen VPN,

then another forward slash. So it's a bit cumbersome, but anyway, nordvpn.org slash emergency hyphen VPN, and then another slash. So I think that's really interesting. And thank you very much to them for getting in touch. Now this is a complex issue from Donal in Amsterdam. That does sound like a soul.

It does, doesn't it? Well, it's spring again, I'll bring again, Donal in Amsterdam. Oh, I was thinking of the Wimble in Amsterdam, where the mice were. Clipety club on the stairs. Exactly. Sadly, it's nothing to do.

They're on the stairs. They're on the stairs. Oh. Sadly, it's nothing to do. Where on the stairs? Where on the stairs? Quite, so I will stop. You thank you. The pronunciation obviously is, and foreign languages at the heart of this email, and I will do my best. Dear Gaeliga and Gaelic, recently Simon asked for linguists to give any connections between Irish and other languages. Yes. While not a cunning linguist myself, I will lean on the wonderful, and I hope this is a mancan mangan, and his delightful work, 32 words for field. One... One central idea to the book is that the Indo-European migrants to Ireland, about four and a half thousand

years ago, came with their language, a language that people who spread south and east also spoke. Ireland remained relatively unperturbed in comparison to the rest of Europe. So the ancient roots of the Irish language and similarities to the language of those other migrants remained intact. Similarities include, and apologies, as much as this might rely on some visibility to pronounce Irish Arabic and words from other exotic tongues, which I think you know is limited.

Denizens of the Arabian Peninsula referring to the Three Leafs symbol for a trio of goddesses as a shamrak, the Three Leafs' prignative to Ireland with similar religious symbolism is, of course, the shamrog. In Yemen, the word for a knife is Sikina, in Irish it is Schien. All my favorite of all time in Irish a cow

is a bow, beau. Anyone who was eaten of Vietnamese beef noodle soup will have had phobo bow in Vietnamese also meaning cow. The author of the book, not the email, admits some of the connections may be fanciful. However, as a gay le gua, we often think of our language as some polarity to English. We think in English and translate incorrectly to Irish, understanding it in a greater context allows me certainly to consider my native tongue more deeply. Any signs of need to consider my native tongue more deeply. And he signs off Michelet mass, Donald in Amsterdam, I imagine, is best, which is, in Ireland, we call our language Irish in English, or Gaelic in Irish, but never Gaelic. Scots, Gaelic exists, and Gaelic is used to refer to cultural things, for example, the Gaelic Athletic Association. So thank you for clearing that.

That is fantastic. And can I just say the amount of research that went into how you read that email out? Well, you know, hopefully it's reasonably, you know, it's within the proximity of what Donald in Amsterdam, he saw a mouse where they're on his death, will consider acceptable. will consider acceptable. Apologies to all Irish, Gaelic, Scott Gallic, and speakers for all the mistakes that I made. Car respondents at coveredamero.com. What else are we reviewing there?

So, a new film out this week, which is Bones and All. Do you know anything about this? Have you followed any of this at all? No, no. So this is a new film by Luca Guadainino, who of course made Call Me By Your Name and Suspere, which I think you interviewed. Did you interview Tell the Swinton for Suspere, a remake? You interviewed John Suntz.

To go to John Suntz on the top of it, thank you, pardon. So this is adapted from a 2015 like that. We didn't like Suspere. No, but you have you seen the original Susperia, which is half half the length and twice as good. So this is from a cannibalistic coming of age novel by Camille D'Angeles. Taylor Russell is Marin, who is a young woman who lives with her dad. Her dad keeps her bedroom door locked. She's invited for a sleepover with school friends. She's a can't go because my father won't let me. I said, well, sneak out of the window.

She goes, she sneaks out of the window. And when she's there, something terrible happens. Turns out it's happened before. The father says, grab your things we're leaving town. We've got 20 minutes. They've clearly done this before. They relocate. They start again.

And then he abandons her, leaving her with some money, her birth certificate, and a cassette tape in which he narrates the story of her life for her, because he said, I don't know how much of this you remember, but this is how you got here. How, as a child, he realized that she was dangerous and he thought that maybe he could contain it, how they were abandoned by their mother, by her mother. Now she's alone in the world with this, you know, knowledge that she is a dangerous person. And she rapidly finds out that she's actually not alone in the world, that there are others like her, others who can smell her presence, such as Mark Reiland, who plays a character called Sully, and Timothy H. Hallame, as Lee,

who turns out to be her soulmate, here's a clip. What was it like? A rush. I need to feel every blood vessel like Spider Webbing, you know what I mean? I'm feeling some kind of weird, super hero. What about afterward? Would you feel about it? Would you think? I don't remember after.

So what then happens is that they have, you know, a, it's not really, it's a, a sort of soulmate friendship, but they are kind of, you know, a couple on the run on the move because they both share this very dangerous side. They're personality that turns out that actually is shared by a huge number of people. The rest of the cast also includes Michael Stullberg, Chloe Savini, David Gordon Green, director of the new Halloween movies and director of the Forcecoming Exodus movie, Jessica Harper, obviously which connects back to the horror that we were talking about before. The film is beautifully shot by Arsenie Kutcher-Turon.

It has original music by Trent Resner and Atticus Ross. Uses needle drops from bands like Joy Division and Durant-Durant because it's got a, you know, it's set in the past. There's a, there's a, the weirdest use of kisses, lick it up. I've ever seen it. It's not a song that I thought was gonna be appearing

in the film. It got a 10 minute standing evasion at Venice, but then again, doesn't everything. I think away from the festival circuit, it's good, but it's not great. And I think there's about a lot of Guadaninos films. I mean, on one level, it's Twilight with cannibals. People have been so snotty and so snobby about Twilight, and critics have very much fallen in love

with bones and all. On one level, this is Twilight with cannibals. On another level, it's Clare and E's trouble every day, which is a film I'm very proud to say when Linda and I program the Horace season at the NFT in 2004. We put that on because it's kind of, you know, that is a film in which it has a similar thing about personal obsession and cannibalism and eating, which is, I think the tone was similar. What it isn't is raw, the junior de Corno film, because it's nothing like as good as raw. It does have a great atmosphere. I mean, you can smell the locations and it has a real texture to it. I think, as with so much of, when you said you didn't like Suspirit, one of the things you didn't like about it was that it felt very long. Well, bones and all feels very long. And I think what I mean, there's something that he does is he's not great at brevity. And I don't mean that just as a kind of crass, his films need to be shorter. What I mean is his films sometimes have an undisciplined.

And also, I think almost self-consciously pleased with them feeling. So I liked a lot of bones and all. I thought the performances were pretty solid. Martre islands are sully. It's interesting. I know you're a Martre islands fan. It's a really, really creepy performance that he does. And I think that's a very fine performance.

And I think that it has a texture and a stench to it that is powerful. But I also come from FIFA. Yeah, because the Netflix documentary is showing on the same television. Something goes wrong. Something smells rancid and dead and rotting. It must be FIFA. But it's strong on atmosphere, strong on performances. I don't think it's the masterpiece that people

perhaps think it is. And I would say, if you really like this, check out Cleden E's Trouble every day and absolutely check out Julia DeCourne as Raw, which as a coming of age movie does more in less time. Let's do our Watts on then. This is where you email us a voice note about your festival or a special screening that you have wherever in the world you happen to be. You send it to Correspondence at CurmanaMayo.com. Here we go with this week's Correspondence. Hello Simon and Mark. This is Lily, a co-director of the London Migration Film Festival. The aim of our festival is to challenge how people think and talk about the hot topic of migration.

And the next edition is taking place at Venues Across London from the 24th to the 30th of November. We hope you can make it. Hey, Simon and Mark, this is Leak MacMannus, the director of a new documentary folk musical called North Circular. Seth in Dublin's Northern City told an Academy ratio black and white features performances from the leading lights of the new Dublin folk scene and it's released an Irish cinemas in December 2nd and it's coming to the UK in the new year. Well I'm intrigued by both of them. Fantastic. I love this feature. I genuinely love this feature. Luke is the director of North Circular and Lily before that co-director of the London Migration

Film Festival. Send your 22nd audio trailer about your event anywhere in the world to correspondents at www.com.com.com, a couple of weeks up front, if that's okay, and then we can play you out with the glory of your own words and your own accent, as we got from Lily and from Luke. Okay, what else have we got? She said, this is a film about the two New York Times journalists who blew the whistle on the Harvey Weinstein scandal, Megan Tuy and

Jodie Cantor, played by Kerry Mulligan and Zoe Kazan. It's adapted from the book by two-encounter of the same name and it's the writer of the film is Rebecca Lankovich and it's directed by Maria Schrader. As with so many movies in this genre, it takes a stylistic lead from all the presidents' men. I mean it is two journalists, doggedly tracking down leads, working the phones, following the, well following, you know, following the trail as far as it needs to go despite meeting opposition. The difference is these are two women with children at home and husbands who are left holding the baby.

So that in itself is kind of an interesting variant to the genre, which is so often about the male journalist doggedly doing this. We start with Trump getting elected in 2016 despite a number of credible sexual assaults against him. The editors ask, where do we go from here? Because it seems that nobody cares. I mean, they just elected to President, somebody who clearly has a number of

very credible sexual assault allegations against him, and yet he still managed to get elected. So where do we take this story? Somebody says, Hollywood. Hollywood is worth investigating because we know for a fact that people have talked about terrible stories in Hollywood and immediately they get led to a mountain of suppressed evidence about mirror max as being a toxic work environment. And specifically the emberons of Harvey Weinstein. Everyone has a story but no one will go on the

record. Rose McGowan has already spoken out, but has been ignored, and therefore is, you know, not particularly sympathetic towards a newspaper now coming to her and saying, we want to do this story. Other key cases, and I know this is recent history, so a lot of people will remember this anyway, include Ashley Judd, who plays herself in the film, recounting her own now well-documented experiences.

Jennifer Elias-Loramadden, who is about to undergo surgery, and so has her own personal life issues to deal with, but is a part of this story. And Samantha Morton, a Zelda Perkins, who is one of the earliest witnesses to Weinstein's predatory behavior, who has been hushed up by a gagging order. Here is a clip. These are the original letters. Weinstein's predatory behavior, who has been hushed up by a gagging order. Here is a clip.

These are the original letters. I had to have their permission if I wanted to contact a therapist. I'll speak to an accountant. I was never to speak to any other media now or hereafter existing about it. Judy, this is bigger than Whitesteen. This is about the system protecting abuses. I want you to take these. And I want you to use them.

Now I have to say that is one of the most powerful scenes in the film, not least because Samantha Morton takes everything to a different level. I mean, I think Samantha Morton is just an extraordinary screen presence. And she, I mean, you can see just from that very brief clip, you know, she's not messing around. So, the film is a drama, but it also includes documentary elements. I mean, there is an audio tape that was first uncovered by Ronan Farah of Weinstein harassing an assistant. And of course, we now all know that the way this story finally

progresses that Weinstein ended up being convicted, in fact, even as this film is opening, there is another Weinstein trial going on. I mean, if all things are equal, he will spend the rest of his life behind bars and deservedly so because he was a predator on an industrial level. But as that clip says, it's not just about him. It's about an entire system and hierarchy that enabled all this stuff to happen. It is a gripping story.

It is solidly, if perhaps somewhat unremarkably told, and it has flopped. In the US, in its opening weekend, it took around 2 million from 2000 theaters, which has been, there's been news stories written about this, has been one of the worst major studio openings ever. The Hollywood Reporter's story was headline, why Hollywood's first Harvey Weinstein movie was sidelined in opening. Variety headline was she said bombs, why aren't awards season movies resonating with audiences? And as you know I mentioned before that you know Tarantino recently said this thing about movies worse than they've ever been. Weinstein's own PR team have gloatingly issued a statement you know about why the movie isn't doing well and saying Harvey the film producer

would have known that, I mean, you know, which is repugnant on a level it really pains me to say. I think the simple thing is this, the reason that she said had a bad time in cinema in the American box office is it's a release strategy issue. You don't open these movies in 2000 theaters. If you look at spotlight, it opened in five theaters and then it grew and it built. You look at, I mean, that's a movie that went on to win big at the awards. You look at the post, it had a slow rollout and the post is a very similar thing in terms of it

Again, taking all the presidents men as it's kind of you don't open these movies in 2000 theaters Apparently the reason it did is that in the post pandemic era there has been a Big wobble about the idea of slow roll out strategies because key audiences for these movies have lost the cinema habit. And so you have a, you're kind of in a, in a bind in which you have to go for broke. It's all or nothing. And that's a, that is completely inappropriate opening strategy. I'm not pointing the finger at the studio and saying, you know, you drop the ball. It's because of the way that the market is now. It is much harder for a strategy that

is designed for this kind of movie, which is you start small, you build, you go five theaters, ten theaters, you go key cities, and then you build out. So all the kind of, I have to confess either horrified or gloating accounts of how poorly the box office is done, I believe completely unfair to the film and tell us something about the industry, but they don't tell us something about the film. This is a solidly made you know gripping and frankly horrifying story that deserved Better and I believe it will probably get a better response here. I mean, it's had very good notices and of course It's an awards contender because we're now in awards corridor.

It is just fantastically unfortunate that the industrial circumstances put it in a position that it should never have been in. As a useful corrective, I should go out and see it deliberately. And that's it for take one, production management and general all-round stuff, Lily Hamley, cameras, Teddy Riley, videos. On our YouTube channel, Ryan Amiris, Gideon Engineer Josh Gibbs, Flynn Rodham is the assistant producer,

guest researcher, Sophie Irvan. Hannah Talbot is the producer, Simon Paul is the redactor in chief, Mark, your film of the week. Well, clearly Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio. Next week, our guest will be Gary Olman, talking about his role as Jackson Lamb in the new series of slow horses also its a big anniversary for Neil by mouth. Thank you for listening, our extra takes with a bonus review, a bunch of recommendations, more stuff about the movies and cinema adjacent television available on Monday. Hurrah! you