Kermode & Mayo’s Take - George Miller, Furiosa, In Flames & The Garfield Movie

Episode Date: May 23, 2024

This week, director George Miller sits down with Simon to chat all things ‘Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga’, the origin story of renegade warrior Furiosa before her encounter and team-up with Mad Max. Mark also gives his take on the film, as well as reviewing ‘In Flames’, a Pakastani-Canadian supernatural drama, which sees a mother and daughter’s precarious existence ripped apart after the death of the family patriarch. The big review of the week is ‘The Garfield Movie’, which sees Chris Patt voice the iconic, Monday-hating, lasagna-loving cat, who finds himself unexpectedly reunited with his long-lost father, a scruffy street cat who draws him into a high-stakes heist. Timecodes (relevant only for the Vanguard - who are also ad-free!): 08:18 – In Flames Review 12:04 – Box Office Top Ten 24:48 – George Miller Interview 39:29 - Furiosa Review 51:25 – The Garfield Movie Review You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Now, I know this isn't until another episode, but I just want to tell you that me and Benedict Cumberbatch have been discussing his assault on your good person. Oh, we now officially calling it an assault? It was very entertaining, I have to say. No, no, no, not really. It was just a tap, as I recall. Although I think you said it was a tap. It was a punch which was jokey. What he did was, he did this thing, this came up in, because he said, oh, incidentally,

I've got something for you from Keira Knightley. And then he punched me and he sort of punched me on the arm. But he did that thing that people used to do at school. You know, when you've got, if you do something with a closed fist, but then you put one of your fingers forward slightly. So he did that. So it's like a dead arm. But the thing I remember most brilliantly about it is a leading newspaper ran a news story later on, which said, oh, apparently some anonymous film critic was punched by Benedict Cumberbatch.

And I went, I got in touch with him and said, it's not anonymous, it's me. They went, well, we heard this story, but you know, it happened on, it was live. It's on, there's a video of it. They got absolutely everything wrong. And it was- It was live on the radio.

Marvellous journalistic. Anyway, how is Benedict? He's very, very good, I have to say. But it's interesting to know that journalistic standards were as low then as they are now in some places. Unbelievable. Quite incredible. Unbelievable.

Basic research, I don't think so. The very newspaper, the title of which Brian Cox uses in the end of that film he made, in which he says, we must start a new journal, a journal that will be completely free from any form of interference and we will call it insert name of, I was going to say paper, but of course it's not paper anymore, it's just an old one. We don't have the independencies of what I think you're... Well that's where it happened.

It was just, yeah, it was nuts. Absolutely nuts. Which goes back to the old Woody Allen going out with Margaret Beckett story of all the names you could have picked. He picked the name of the Labour leader just after John Smith had died. Anyway, a very strange thing. I hope you pointed out to Benedict Cumberbatch that I am now a huge fan of Keira Knightley and that I think she's really great. I mean, I think she knows that and she's been on the show as well since then. My most embarrassing moment with Benedict Cumberbatch, which didn't come up in this

particular exchange, was when I was in the steam room at my gym, the same steam room where I confronted or observed Justin Bieber having a go at one of his security guys. I think I've told this many, many times before. I'm sitting in a steam room, which is of course a room full of steam, and this person next to me says, hello Simon. And I go, oh, hello. And he's clearly not knowing who it was. He said, it's Benedict.

So I was actually sitting next to Benedict Cumberbatch wearing a towel, I have to say. And I didn't realize who it was. But why would you? I mean, why would you? Was he ripped? Oh, he's, yeah, absolutely. Of course he is. Anyway, never mind. So Benedict, I think will probably be on next week's show. This week, we're doing what, Mark? Mark Willis This week, we are quickly looks at script

to remind himself what we are doing. We're reviewing In Flames, which was Pakistan's entry for the Oscars. The Garfield movie. There's a new Garfield movie, you know, like everyone was asking for. And Furiosa, a Mad Max saga with our special guest. It's director George Miller, who's very good company, as you'll hear in this here podcast. Also the weekend watch list and the weekend not list, our TV movie of the week feature premium bonus section for premium bonus members of the Vanguard. What are you going to be?

Oh, it's Insomnia, that's right. Insomnia, yes. Vicky McClure was on the show last week and so now I've seen the whole of Insomnia. So we said we couldn't review it last week because it was embargoed, but we're going to review it this week. One Frame Back is about the works of Anya Taylor-Joy. And you don't have to wait until Wednesday for questions, shmestchens, because they are in Take Two, which has landed alongside this here pod. You can access this

via Apple Podcasts or head to extra takes.com for non-fruit related devices. Ad free episodes of Ben and Emone's terrific Shrink the Box, Fraser Crane and Tommy Shelby are all there already. Larry David is up next from Curb Your Enthusiasm. If you are already a Vanguard Easter, as always, but not quite together, we salute you. We salute you. Okay, I mean, not even close. Now, we begin with an epic email, which we're actually going to split into two, because it's just too long, but it's very good, but we're going to split it into two. Is it the first part of a triology? Well, more on that word later.

This is from Martin Rosen, cartoonist, who's been in touch with us before. So this is Martin Rosen, part one. Okay. Okay. Simon and Mark, as you know, every week I listen to your podcast on a Friday, working away on another rib tickling sideways look at the world's further collapse into mayhem and dismay for the Guardian's cartoon slot. And the standard of wittertainment continues to act as a safety net, preventing me from falling into the... It's the slough of

despair, isn't it? Not the slough of despair. But anyway, what would you say? I would say slough. Okay. The slough of despair. Okay. Yeah, I'd say slough. Okay, the slough of despair. Yeah, I'd say slough. I would say this email veers very, very clearly into what sounds to me like student politics, and a cross between student politics and in our time on Radio 4. Martin continues, however, for the last few months, every week or other, one of you says something which immediately triggers a need on my part to write in and say, no, Bunwell didn't say that or that's not a synecdoche, that's a litotes or something like that.

And every week by the time I file several hours later in the buzz and subsequent general collapse after hitting the headline, I forget to write the email. In the latest podcast though, my ears pricked up when you were discussing Imaginary Friends, as earlier in the week I gave the Marks Memorial Lecture at Highgate Cemetery, as you do, on the strength of my 2018 comic book adaptation of The Communist Manifesto. And one of the slides I showed, yes that's a slide, from my very first regular gig as a professional cartoonist in a series for the New Statesman in 1983 was a cartoon of Stalin ordering the arrest of his imaginary friend. I would probably then have forgotten to mention this if Marc hadn't made the properties theft joke at the

beginning of the extra take. Marxist would not make this joke as it's a line from Proudhon, the French anarchist, who Marx specifically attacked for his bourgeois revanchism, like he attacked anyone except Engels. Also this is a very Radio 4 opening to the show. Also- This is fantastic, I'm so pleased by this. When has bourgeois revanchism been discussed on any other show? I don't think so.

Also, it's in my- I mean, does The Rest is Entertainment discuss bourgeois revanchism? I don't think so. Also, Martin continues, it's in my first cartoon ever published in a national magazine or newspaper in the Christmas 1982 issue of The New Statesman. Every time I hear this joke, the property joke, I always think copyright me 1982 and sigh deeply inside at the feebleness of intellectual property law. Thanks for brightening up my Friday mornings, bestest Martin Rosen. Join us next week for part two of Martin's email.

But there you go. So apparently the property's theft was written, was created by Martin Rosen. Yeah, and Martin, you can't claim intellectual property when even all intellectual property is theft, surely? Well, that's not very, that's not consoling words, is it? Because he made a joke and now everyone is just passing it off as a standard criticism.

I think what he's claiming is he was the origin. This is where it comes from. It's from Martin Rosen, 1982, anytime anyone is tempted. But anyway, Proudhon, the French anarchist, I need to know more about him, definitely. That is magnificent, absolutely magnificent. What a fantastic email. It will be hard to top that for the rest of the show.

Yes, well who knows where we're going to go for episode two of Martin Rosen which will be on next week's podcast. Anyway, let's talk about a movie that's out and might entertain. Okay, so In Flames, which is Pakistani-Canadian supernatural horror. It's the feature debut from writer-director Zara Khan, and it was Pakistan's Oscar entry. Stars Ramesh Sher Nawal, who is Mariam living cratchy with her mother, Freya. The family patriarch has died. The relatives are already circling like sharks.

The family's got debts. There is an offer to solve all their debts, but Mariam tells her mother, don't be taken in. Don't sign anything. like sharks, the family's got debts, there is an offer to solve all their debts. But Mariam tells her mother, don't be taken in, don't sign anything, you know, don't do anything in haste. She's a student, she has no time for boys for men, it's a very, very circumscribed world in which women can get attacked for just driving in the street or failing to be modest enough. And when the beginnings of a romance begin to blossom, things take a turn for the dark and then take a turn for the ghostly as the ghosts of the past reappear.

Now here's the thing, on the surface if you see the trailer, it's a supernatural thriller. But if you think of something like Babak Amvari's brilliant Tehran set, Chilla Under the Shadow, the whole thing in that was that the supernatural elements are just there to illustrate and dramatize down to earth realities. And the same is absolutely true here. The film is about the way in which women's lives in a patriarchal system are controlled by men, by the state, by religion, by order and family. And there was an interview with the director who said that the horror tropes are an extension of the character's experience to put you in the shoes of Maria Maffrea, to be suffocated and how much power there is in their resistance. So obviously there's also a kind of, I suppose, a thematic similarity to something like a

girl walks home alone at night. This premiered at the Cannes Director's Fortnight last year, then played other festivals including Sitges, which if you're a horror fan, you're playing Sitges is quite a big deal. So it is a horror film and it is very atmospheric, very unsettling, riveting central performance. And it conjures this kind of ghostly world in which actually the ghosts are the least scary things. The most disturbing thing is the way that the mother and daughter are preyed upon, everyone

around them and trapped in this system in which basically they have no agency and what they're trying to do is reclaim that agency. And the reason it works is because there are some down to earth scenes which are really, really convincing. There's a scene in which the mother is trying to get a lawyer to take the case and she tries to sort of woo the lawyer and it's sort of desperate and humiliating, but it feels like the kind of thing you'd see in a Ken Loach film, to be honest. And then you have these supernatural elements beyond that.

So I thought it was very, very fine and it's got very good reviews and it's easy to see why. But as I said, it's definitely, if you're a horror fan, it works as a horror film But the horror elements are there to tell a social realist story in a kind of you know Magical realist fantastical way. I thought it was really really well worth things called in flames seek it out You love that. You know, it'll be in it's a smaller cinema release It's not gonna be like Furiosa absolutely everywhere, but it is well worth checking out. Are there any slayed songs in it? No annoyingly it is well worth checking out. Are there any Slade songs in it? No, annoyingly there aren't.

I thought it was the follow up to In Flames. Mr. Trink, In Flames, yeah. No, sounded like Twister and Twister. Would be the logical for Slade In Flames. Slade In Flames, yes. No, there aren't. Disappointing miss. Anyway, still to come, what do we have?

Reviews of Garfield the movie. Yes, there's another Garfield film. And Furiosa with our special guest. George Miller Miller the director of that film, but first this. So we just wanted to tell you about what our friends at Rooftop Film Club are up to. As you know they are London's king of outdoor cinema. More than just a movie with Rooftop Experiences, located at Bussey Building in Peckham and Roof East in Stratford. Sit back, relax, get cosy in a blanket,

and use the QR code on your seat to have food and drink delivered directly to you. They're playing all the award-winning films, like Past Lives, Anatomy of a Fool, All of Us Strangers, but also classics like Interstellar, When Harry Met Sally, and more recent films like Challengers and Fall Guy. of a Fool, All of Us Strangers, but also classics like Interstellar, When Harry Met Sally, and more recent films like Challenges and Fall Guy. Rooftop Film Club offers memberships for as little as £25 per month.

That's not all, as a Vanguard Easter you get 2 for 1 tickets on a Wednesday with the code THETAKE24. That's T-H-E-T-A-K-E-24. Visit RooftopFilmClub.com When slayed creatures return to the land of the living, it's up to a band of unlikely heroes to re-slay them. Welcome to the Re-Slayer's Take. From the fantasy world of Critical Role, join Jasmine Bular, Jasmine Chung, Jasper Cartwright, and Caroline Lux alongside us, Game Masters Nick Williams and George Primavera, in a tabletop role-playing audio adventure using Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition.

Adventure awaits in the ReSlayers take. New episodes drop weekly on Mondays wherever you stream your podcasts. Okay, well it's time for the Box Office Top 10 brought to you as ever from our good friends at ComScore Movies, which is where we always go if we need a box office top ten, at 24, two tickets to Greece please. Which, you know, I was kind of oddly charmed by. It looked from the outside like a complete piece of fluff, but actually as the story moves on, it becomes more serious,

and it's, I think, interesting to see a film addressing itself to a different audience, to the mainstream multiplex smashy crashy stuff. I liked it and it was definitely a more rewarding film than I had expected from seeing the trailer. Number 16 is Horde. Which I think is great. Now, I know that some people are finding it a tough watch. You were saying last week, is there more saliva than I think I can deal with?

To which I think the answer is yeah. I don't know that you'd be a huge fan, but I think it's really, really impressive. And I thought that despite the fact that it's dealing with some fairly dark subject matter, there is something transcendent about it. And I really think that director Luna Kahn-Moon, I think you'll be hearing a lot more from her in the future. And I think people will look back on this as a very important first feature. Number 10 is Tarot, number seven in America. Which was not press screened. And there's this whole question now about, so it's a horror

film based on a novel called Horror Scope. And it's generally becoming the trend now that if distributors have got horror films, that they just can't be bothered to show them to the critics. Unless of course it's a horror film like In Flames, in which case they do, because that's a very good horror film. So I haven't seen Tarot, I'm sure it's marvellous. But you're not, are you? I mean, because it could be terrible.

No, no, absolutely. Because otherwise you'll get put on the poster. Yeah, I'm sure it's absolutely marvelous. Number nine is La Quimera, number 29 in the States. You see, this is interesting. I was talking to somebody who runs an independent cinema and they are struggling to get an audience into La Quimera despite the fact that it's had really good reviews. I mean, very, very good broadsheet reviews.

And again, I can see why. Alisha Ruvaka herself, the director said, you know, look, it's not meant to be an easy film. It's not meant to be, you know, some films are meant to be challenging. But I know that they are struggling to get audiences in. And the only thing I can do is to say, look, it's really worth your time. It's very hard to describe. Josh O'Connor is great.

And it is unlike any other film you'll see probably this year. I mean, it is remarkable, isn't it, Simon? Yes, it is. But I don't think Aliche is helping herself by saying, you know, it's not supposed to be an easy watch. You know, there are ways of making challenging films and entice people in, and there are ways of making people go, oh, okay, well, I'll see something else then. As Joe Strummer famously said of Side Six of Sandinista, only the very brave go there. Also Side Three of Jeff Waynes' War of the Worlds with the red weed.

No one wants to listen to the red weed. Kung Fu Panda is at number eight. Kung Fu Panda four. We will almost certainly have Kung Fu Panda. I can't say it. Kung Fu Panda five is going to be... Kung Fu Fander 5 is going to happen. Kung Fu Fander. Kung Fu Fander 5 will definitely happen.

Kung Fu Fander definitely will be made by someone. Back to black is at number seven, still in the top ten. Yeah, doing well. Great central performance. I mean, it is perhaps at worst an unremarkable pop biopic, but it's a perfectly decent pop biopic and I think the great center performance does a great job of carrying it. And as we've said before, if you want the harsh version of this story, Asif Kapadi's documentary is out there. If you want a version that is more fairy tale, that's what this is doing.

New at number six, Guruvayoor Ambaland Anadayil. Apologies for if that's slightly clumsy. No, well I'm sure, I mean, your pronunciation is as good as, if not better than mine, this is a Malay language Indian comedy drama. Again, hasn't been press screened, so if anyone's seen it, do write in and let us know. Correspondence at curbidomeo.com challenges, is it number five in the UK, number five in the states too? My favourite Luca Guadagnino film, and once again, that's Josh O'Connor's second entry in this week's top 10. So I think he's, well I know, I can remember, sexy tennis, who thought you could make tennis

sexy and who thought you could make a playoff at the end of a tennis match actually the conclusion to a passionate love triangle. I think it's impressive. A new entry number four, number three in the States is The Strangers Chapter One. Okay, so this again, not press screened, horror movie from Rene Harlan. Rene Harlan who did that awful Exorcist prequel, you know, he did some other interesting stuff when he would, you know, way, way back. So this is the reboot of the series that began in 2008 with The Strangers, which cost nothing,

was very profitable, and was partly inspired by The Manson Murders. And then there was a sequel umpteen years later, Strangers Pray at Night, which was kind of very 80s retro. It was actually perfectly well orchestrated. It may not be remarkable, but fine. Actually that one was worth it, because there's a very good swimming pool scene in the second one. This is the first of a projected trilogy and I don't think they'll show any of them to

us. The word is trilogy. This will be discussed later in the program. Number three is the fall guy. I don't quite understand. We've had a few emails from people who've not fallen for it and there's been articles in the press saying, well, they misjudged how, you know, how well known the IP was. I don't think it's, I don't understand it.

It is almost a kind of textbook popcorn movie. It's two stars, who you like, who've got great chemistry and a bunch of action stunts. I don't get why people don't just go, oh yeah, yeah, it's a great popcorn, but some people I know really, really haven't gone for it at all. Number two here, number two in America, Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes. Which it's interesting, I do think the second hour of it really picks up. I think the first hour of it is draggy. Again, I think it's the trilogy issue, which is that once you know that you've got two other movies to expand the story and there's no need to get on.

But I think what this does is it sets up a very interesting next chapter. And I think there are very good set pieces in it. Incidentally, set pieces that are clearly influenced by Mad Max, which is interesting because we're gonna speak to George Miller in a while, and you realize how much Mad Max basically laid the template of what a post-apocalyptic civilization looks

like. But I do think it drags like crazy in the first hour. And number one here and number one in America, new entry and that's IF. So before Mark, a couple of thoughts, interesting, very interesting contrasting emails. Cameron says, following on from the good doctors astute review of If, I thought I'd chime in with a few words. Whilst the film is absolutely fine, I noted that during interviews, John Krasinski said he'd made the film for his kids. As another podcaster previously mentioned on this pod, I think we're talking about Richard Osman, would say, make films for us and just spend more time with your kids. This approach of

an adult trying to be imaginative leaves the end result a somewhat dumbed down version of a fantasy. The film evokes so many other greater works that it struggles to find its footing. It's very much a monster calls. If they took out the personal tragedy and the adolescent growth, it's inside out without the empathy and vivid colour palette. It's Toy Story without the defining characters, all of which made it similar to the most recent Clifford the Big Red Dog film than anything else. Perhaps taking the film away from New York City and giving the audience a less

familiar setting would have helped it to feel less pastiche and disappointing. Even though in quotes profound moments felt very broad, which is a shame as John Krasinski seems like the most wonderful man and the film clearly has its heart in the right place. But it's disappointing how the movie turned out with all the talent involved. Even the children sat behind me were bored enough to take their parents phone and order nachos and then persist to discuss the nachos midway through the film. Love the show, Steve and Dan were the usual Nazi shenanigans. Thank you, Cameron.

On the other hand, Steven in Sunderland, I think this is very interesting. As someone who has never had an imaginary friend and if as a child, not creative, I guess, I did relate to Bea, Bea being the 12 year old girl who is kind of like the centerpiece of the show and the growing up being forced on her through grief. Granted, my growing up came well into my adult life at 36, but losing my mam, it suddenly

hits you. Oh, I'm grown up now. So seeing myself in B was an easy jump to make, despite the massive gap in age and sexes. Was this manipulative by the fantastic Jim from The Office, as John Krasinski will always be to me? I guess so, but isn't all art manipulative at its core? It's all created to elicit a response and my response to Jim's writing was to become a 12 year old child 12 year old girl and weep in my seat. I go to cinema or gigs to find that response in me be it sadness or relation

so in that regard if and Jim meaning John Krasinski were very successful in their manipulation. Beautiful movie, funny, charming, and any movie that can teleport a 41-year-old man from Sunderland across the pond into the mind of a 12-year-old girl is worth the price of admission. Stephen, thank you very much. So, contrasting views on the number one film. Okay, well it's brilliant that Stephen had that response because that is exactly what the film is there for. And when we were talking about it being manipulative, I said that at the end, it made me cry.

It pushed all the buttons and it made me cry. And I know you sat in a screening with somebody who kind of wept all the way through it. I think that the first email is kind of more, is closer to what my reservation is. When you mention a Monster Calls, I mean a Monster Calls is brilliant and a Monster Calls is absolutely magical and it completely works as a kind of magical realist fable. I think If feels a lot more contrived. I think the comparison with Inside Out is one that we made and I think it's a comparison

by which if doesn't, you know, doesn't come out well. I wanted if to be better and I wanted it to be more magical and I wanted it to have more of a transportative feel to it and for me it didn't. But if it did for you and if you watched it and felt those things, then wonderful. And I think again, it reminds us that so much of the way that a movie works is what you bring to it. The movie worked for you, and that's enough. And I'm really glad it did, because I don't want it to not work.

It just didn't particularly work for me. Correspondents at Kerben and Mayo.com. We're heading towards George Miller, but first of all, Mark's favorite part of the show. We're stepping once again with Gay Abandon into the laughter lift. Right, I'm just checking this here, Mark. And I, yeah, well, I was looking at this beforehand and I'm not really very happy with this next sentence

because it's chock full of innuendo. In fact, I mean, normally when I see an innuendo, I whip it out immediately. But I have to say this next sentence is, I think has been written by Kenneth Horn for our older listeners. I've tried to give up innuendos, but it's so hard. Oh, thank heavens I'm finally in. Now where was I? I had a very worrying phone call this week, Mark.

The phone rang and I said, hello? Yes, it's Dr. Kahn at the hospital. Your wife's been taken in, I'm afraid. Oh no, I said, what happened? How is she? I'm afraid she's critical, said Dr. Kahn. Ah, yes, I said, you get used to that. Anyway, still to come, Mark, what the, I mean, mild titters, I think, is certainly the only

response that can be had. Can I just ask a question? Because I just don't remember. When did the laughter lift start? Even I listen to this feature and go, what is this? I think it was handed down on tablets of stone by Moses went up the mountain and he came down with the Ten Commandments and the laughter left. He said, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's ass.

And then it said, thou shalt not be funny, despite the fact that you're trying way too hard. Okay, still to come. Yes, still to come. Yes. way too hard. Okay, still to come. Yes, still to come, yes. Yes, still to come. Review of the new Garfield movie. Yes, there's another one. And Furious of Mad Max Saga with our very special guest, who is George Miller on the way.

Hey everybody, it's Rob Lowe here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast that's called Literally with Rob Lowe. And basically it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire, like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday.

So subscribe, please, and listen wherever you get your podcasts. Now this week's guest is George Miller, a director I think you could say without fear of contradiction, a very diverse taste. He began his career with a little indie called Mad Max that he thought would be his only contribution as he was basically a newly qualified doctor. But over 45 years later and a couple of babe and happy feet films along the way, as well as many others, he's back with another installment of Mad Max, Furiosa, stars Anya Taylor-Joy. We'll hear from George in just a moment.

First here's a clip from Furiosa. Remember me. You fabulous thing. You crawled out of a pitiless grave deeper than hell. Only one thing's going to do that for you. Not hope. Hate. No shame in hate. It's one of the great forces of nature. That wasn't hope, that was instinct. That is a clip from Furiosa, a Mad Max saga, written, directed and produced by George Miller. George, hello, nice to meet you. Very nice to meet you too.

Thank you very much for speaking to us. I love the film very much. The first thing I want to mention, because sometimes this falls off the edge of a conversation, the first thing I want to mention is the sound. Because the first time I smiled in your film is five seconds in with this, I mean, it was in a fantastic, you know,

go see this on a big screen and have a good sound system. Because the noise, the rumble, the roar that you've got from your machines is something else. Can we just credit the sound guys? Oh yes, oh I'm so glad you say that. Look, I try to make movies, which are silent movies with sounds. And when, so in other words,

you could read the movie without sound, but when you actually have sound in the movie, it becomes a much more immersive experience. And I also think you can almost hear with your ears, you can almost see with your ears. You can actually guide the audience to what they need, what is most important by sound as much as anything else. Just as you can actually hear with your eyes,

I think you can show in the rhythms of a movie, you can actually see impacts, I think. So when those two things come together, it's synergistic and the sum is greater than the parts. And that's really good and we're very, very precise with sound and particularly sound that you're going to see in the cinema. I mean this is more a cinema experience. Big screen, big speakers.

The rumble of the, I love that feeling when it's not so too loud, but it's not overwhelmingly loud, but it's loud enough where your seat rumbles. I love being in the cinema and feeling that. Just as an introduction, just tell us where we are with the start of this film, introduce us to your picture. Well, we're in a world about 50 years from now, 50 years from next Wednesday, let's say, when all the really, all the things that worry us in the news all come to pass in one terrible

cascade of catastrophes, as it were. Okay? So we've lost everything, the power grids, all the institutions and whatever. And we're in a continent like Australia where we don't know what's happened to the cities or whatever, but what's in the center of Australia, about 50 years on, people have found a new way of being, a new ecology, which basically goes back to some sort of very more, let's say, dark ages or

medieval time, still with the remnants of 20th century technology. Not 21st century technology. The power grids are down, so you can't have a mobile phone, you can't have electric cars, you don't have any communications with anybody else. You don't know if anyone else is out there. So this is the wasteland. And it begins, the story begins with the most, with an oasis called the Green Place of many mothers

that exists only because it's so isolated. And you, as the film declares, it's the pole of inaccessibility. And Furiosa lived her childhood there, but is taken out into the wasteland. And she spends basically her whole life trying to get back, but, and the spends basically her whole life trying to get back but and and the story basically forges her into that sort of road warrior that she

becomes at the end of the story. So in Fury Road so we've seen that incredible performance from from Charlize Theron so that's who the child and then the woman becomes later on so we know that how much of this backstory that we're seeing in this film, how much of this story did you know when you were filming Furioso? You know, when Charlize Theron was being Furioso, how much of this did she know? All of it. All of it. We had to do it. Because that happens over three days and two nights. And you have to pick it all the exposition up on the run. And if we didn't, those of us who were making the film, all the designers, the writers, the actors,

everybody had to be working basically with the same organizing ideas. So we wrote Furiosa. After we wrote, Furiosa kept on being delayed, so we had the time to be able to write this story in the 18 years before we meet her in Fury Road from when she's 10 until she's 28. And so Charlize got this script with concept art before she shot it, just as everybody else, all the other actors, as I say, or everybody else working on the film. And so when that film worked, we said, okay, in the future, let's give this one a shot.

So here we are. We said it worked. It was in the future, let's give this one a shot. So here we are. We said it worked. It was spectacularly successful, Oscar-winning. So on the subject of Furiosa, so when we see her at the beginning, as you mentioned, played by, is it Ali Le Brown? No, no, Elila.

Elila Brown. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Elila Brown. Who is fantastic. Yes. And I can't, looking back, I can't even remember the moment where it stops being her and it becomes Anya Taylor Joy. In casting those two, what were you looking for? Because becoming Charlize Theron's Furious series is a tough, tough gig.

Well, that was the biggest hurdle, I think, because, and I didn't know, we were sort of preparing the film and I still hadn't really cast her. And then I saw last night in Soho, Edgar Wright showed it to me at an early cut. I saw Anya, I saw that wonderful, beguiling quality she had. There's something very timeless about her. There's something kind of almost, you sense in her that when it's needed, there's a ferocity, there's a vulnerability, there's a huge amount of discipline in her work.

And Edgar said to me, look, she could do anything. He didn't even know, I didn't even know, I was thinking of her, if you're, she could do anything, whatever it is, do it, do it. She's got it all. And he proved to be right. I mean, I really trusted him. Yeah. He says, I've read an interview there, he says, there's a difference between an actor

and a movie star. And Anya is a movie star. In fact, she just walked past us in the corridor and there goes a movie star. Yes. Well, it's some that, yes, it's, but you know, I needed a real actor to pull it off, not someone. Oh, she's both, I suppose. Maybe she's, yes. And you know, I got to understand, as you do, who she was through the process of making the film. I understood that she started ballet from a very young age

and was in the company accomplished ballerina. And she, and that precision I understood from having worked with dancers before, even on things like Happy Feet, that that is incredibly important. I think Charlize Theron trained as a dancer. She did exactly the same in South Africa. So that was in common.

And then you start getting to know how she grew up and the kind of resolute quality that she had from childhood. Both of them had that. And then in the process, you know, the work, the intensity of the work, they had that. To play young Friosa, we made a movie before this one called

3000 Years of Longing. And Lila played one small scene in which she was the young Tilda Swinton. And while we were doing this scene, she was so precise in her work. And when we broke for a shot, or resetting it for another shot, she would start, just to keep herself active,

start doing sort of calisthenics, or not quite acrobatics, but, and PJ Vogt, a wonderful first assistant director, said, hey, look, she could do Furiosa. Look, she could do her own stunts. She, again, is physically very, very adept and proved to be emotionally adept as well.

The beginning of our conversation, you talk about making silent movies with sound. Anya Taylor-Joy has to be, I would imagine, went for weeks on this set filming without saying a word. Because I think she has 30 lines in a two and a half hour movie and she's the star. So you require her to be silent, don't you? Yes, yes.

Or the character has to be silent. She can't speak as a child when we meet her because everyone's trying to find out where she's from. The moment she reveals where she's from, that's the end of the Green Place. And then she's masquerading for a short time of the story as a male. So she speaks, she doesn't give herself away

and so on and so on. And more than that, almost every one of these characters, like Max himself, virtually in these movies, I reckon there's less than a hundred lines across the Mel Gibson man, Max's, and the Tom Hardy one. So this is the world. Where is Mad Max in this film? He appears briefly in this movie. He's lurking around the wasteland. And I can tell you what he's been doing for the year before. I know precisely what he's been doing. The year before we meet him in Fury Road. To be honest, we really had to understand that. Otherwise,

you can't delve into a world and characters unless you really understand, it's part of the normal preparation, unless you understand all the circumstances of their being in the moment of the story. My guess is this was an easier production than Fury Road. An easier film to make. A very difficult film to make, but not as difficult. Yes, precisely right. They're all difficult to make, but this one, having done the first one,

in terms of all the design and all of that, was easy. We had essentially the same crew, which is really great. And this film, we wanted to shoot Fury Road in Australia, but we were rained out. So we had to go to Namibia. Here, there was rain, but it didn't grow big flowers in the desert, so we were able to shoot this one. And in that way, it was easier. And plus, we had a way better relationship with the studio. At the time we shot Fury Road, there was turmoil at the studio, that's all gone.

And they were very, very collaborative. And this seems to be an addictive character, an addictive world for you and all the fans of the film, so then there's another one to come, isn't there? If this does well enough and the planet's alright. Come on, you know that, you know that. I don't know, you don't know. To be honest, when we finished Fury Road,

I didn't know where I was going to go, I didn't know I To be honest, when we finished Fury Road, I didn't know where I was going to go. I didn't know I'd be sitting here now talking all these years later about, you don't know, you know? And you're a fool if you try to anticipate it. But there's another, my understanding is there's another script and Max is back. There is another script and I like to find a way

of doing that in an interesting way. Has to be different than Fury Road and this like to find a way of doing that in an interesting way. It has to be different than Fury Road and this film to some extent. It has to be uniquely familiar. George Miller, a privilege to meet you. Thank you very much indeed for talking to us. Thanks for the lovely questions. Thank you. We got on very well and he seemed relieved. I don't know why he just seemed relieved to have a nice chat really. Well, I have to say though it was a great interview and they were really smart questions

and you're absolutely on the money when you mentioned the thing about Charlize Theron also having dance training and when he sort of refers to happy feet because of course somebody who makes movies as physical as this, of course the language of dance is part of that. I thought it was a great interview, Simon. I have an interview with him before, which is amazing considering how many movies, I mean, I suppose, given how long he's been around, he's like 79, did you say? I think he's 79. Yeah, I think he's two years younger than Joe Biden.

Which is incredible. But he had a pizzazz about, you know, he had an energy about him, a bit like Ridley Scott, who's older than him. You're thinking, okay, this guy is full of energy, full of ideas. And I enjoyed the movie. I think Fury Road is my favorite. I think it's not quite up to there, but it all depends really on what you think, obviously. Okay, well, so a couple of things that were said in that interview. Firstly, silent movies with sound, which is great. That's, you know, show don't tell cinema.

You send, and do see this in the cinema. That lovely thing hearing George Miller say, I love it when the seat rumbles, you know, because you're there for the rumble, not specifically for the dialogue. And it is interesting to think that when the Mad Max or the Road Warrior movies began, they were basically the kind of exploitation stuff

that you would see at the Scarlett. You know, this guy going head to head with a brutal biker gang in the near future because they killed his wife. And I mean, that was essentially exploitation cinema. And then the series got bigger and the budgets and locations got bigger. And in the first lot, the hair got bigger and bigger and bigger until in the end, it was absolutely hair-tastic. Then Fury Road kind of rewrote everything with Charlie's Thrones Furiosa. So this is now prequel to that set, as George Miller said, 50 years from next Wednesday,

which I thought was a very, very Douglas Adams work. Which makes it May the 29th, 2074, very specifically. Yeah, anyway, but it was a lovely thing. So Anya Taylor-Joy is a young effurious. We first meet her as a child played by A'Lyla Brown. Thank you for asking about pronunciation, because I too would have. It was a name I hadn't seen before. So, she's in the Green Place, which has wind turbines, and she's kidnapped,

taken to the lair of Chris Hemsworth's Dementors. He was a sort of Roman leader gone rogue. He goes around in a chariot pulled by three motorbikes. And he's very interested in culture. It reminded me of the demonic character of the devil in Time Bandits who keeps asking his assistant, tell me more about subscriber trunk dialing or that thing in the Monty Python the Holy Grail when King Arthur is once a noob. Tell me more about this new science and how it is that we now know that the earth is shaped like a banana.

And also all that stuff about, you know, dark ages, medieval setting, a lot of things do bring us back to Python. So she goes from Dementors to Immortan Joe, now played by Lockie Hume, still reminding me of Baron Harkonnen from the Lynch Dune, sort of the postular quality, winds up sharing rig writing duties with Pretoria and Jack. And then it all leads up to a showdown with Chris Hemsworth. So in the case of Fury Road, it was basically a there and back again chase movie. I mean, it's like, what is it?

Three days, two nights, I think is what he said. In the case of this, this being an origins tale, it goes over years. I mean, you know, to point to when you have a different actor playing the character young. And incidentally, you're quite right. It's hard to tell the point at which the character changes. I mean, that is a really seamless transition from one actor to another. So it's divided up into these portentously gnomic chapters like the pole of inaccessibility and lessons from the wasteland. And the phrase that's been used,

it looks like David Lean after doing a line of diesel. And I do think there is a kind of Python quality as well. And I mean that in a good way in terms of the way that the Pythons would do sort of medieval settings. Okay. So what you lose is the tautness of Fury Road, which I think is why it was that you were saying that for you, that's the superior film. What you gain is Fury Road was pedal to the metal. This is an exercise in sort of comic strip myth building. It's like the Odyssey, like Petrolhead Odyssey. And the locations are world building, whether it's the Green Place or Gastown or Bullet Farm. But what that means is that yes, there are long goes, yes, there are sections. I mean, whereas Fury Road just goes, goes, goes, goes, goes, goes, goes.

This has breathing space. And one of my criticisms of Fury Road, although I, you know, I was probably too harsh was that it almost became exhausting. This doesn't because it has line shade, you know, it has the darkness and then it has the light sections, it has the sections which move slower. It has sections I think some people might even find boring. The vehicle designs, again, it's cars upon cars upon cars. The massive wall rigs which have got this thing, is he called the bobby knocker?

That sounds about right. At the back, which you know, yeah, use the bobby knocker. The whole back of the thing starts spinning. And again, that's like medieval jousting. Chopped top cars, cars with machine guns, motorbikes tied to chariots, flying whirly things, one of which resembles the squid-like creature that appears in the sky from, from note. And it's funny because Fury Road had this very specific nod to the cars that ate Paris. This is almost like it's nodding to the animation cars in which everything, the landscape, absolutely

everything seems to be automotive. You're absolutely right about the sound because the sound work is great. As is the stunt work, there's a lot of very good stunt work in it. And then it has at the center of it, Anya Taylor-Joy. And Anya Taylor-Joy is clearly on a mission to demonstrate to all of us that she can do anything, that there is nothing that she cannot do. You know, you want to play a chess player, fine. You want to, you know, be in the nothing that she cannot do. You want to play a chess player, fine. You want to be in the picture.

She's great. And she has got one of those incredibly expressive faces, which means that even if she doesn't have any more than, what do you say, 30 lines or something, you know what- Yeah, 30 lines in the whole film. Yeah, which is extraordinary. But you know what's going on because she's got one of those faces that telegraphs emotions. And I really think that your point about she was a dancer, Charlize Theron was a dancer, George Miller has directed a dance move

in as much as Happy Feet is that. And that choreography, that balletic thing is part and parcel of that. So, okay, it may not be as good as Fury Road in the absolute stripped down sense. Incidentally, there's a black and white edition of Fury Road and there are certain scenes in this in which at night time it almost goes to black and white, almost like it does in certain sections of the second Dune movie. But I think that what this does is it gives you breathing space.

And I wanted that in Fury Road and I got it now. So yes, it's probably over long and there are probably long goes, but in order to give it that up and down quality, I'll take it. What about you? I did think it was terrific and I would like to see it again because there's a lot going on and there's so much to admire, just to say again, big screen, but good sound system. Very important.

I realized listening back to the interview, I didn't even mention Chris Hemsworth, but he did, I think he was clearly enjoying the role. Did he remind you of the kind of messiah who would end up being baptized in the Thames by the chief scout? That's who he reminded me of. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I thought that the contrast of the fact that she says very little and he says a lot. And there's this very funny moment.

It's the bitter moment in which he gets a tear off her face and he puts it in his mouth and he says, it's Piquant, it's Piquant because he's trying to do is be kind of erudite and all the rest of it, but it's Piquant. Yes, it has a slightly more bitter texture than the tears of joy. And then the sort of the guy who was the keeper of all knowledge, who is absolutely the guy he would explain that the world is shaped like a banana and would explain subscriber trunk dialing. But yeah, I thought he was having the time of his life, wasn't he?

Would you think this is, I would like a nail on certainty that there's going to be the third one. If he wants to do another Mad Max film, and apparently Tom Hardy is going to be back in it, that's going to happen, isn't it? One would imagine so. I mean, he's right. You never can tell. It's certainly true that Fury Road did much better than anybody had expected.

And I know that some of the responses to this have been a little bit mixed. So let's see how it does. Okay. But as a sort of cinema experience, I mean, it's a film made to be seen in the cinema. It is the kind of thing you say, if you're going to see this, don't wait for it to come out on streaming or on Blu-ray or whatever it is. Go and see it in a cinema with a big sound system. Correspondence at Kodameo.com. Matt in Wingrave, dear Jeremy and Caleb, in last week's take two, Simon talked about Clarkson's

farm and how it was perfect for a nice gentle watch before going to bed. In our house, this type of program is known as a softener. The good lady chair of examiners and I are in agreement with Simon that you cannot go to bed and hope to fall asleep if you've just watched something harrowing or stressful. So after an episode or two of say, baby reindeer or Ripley, you need a softener like Clarkson's farm. Other favorite recent softeners include Schitt's Creek, seriously Simon stick with it, no. Big Bang Theory, anything where you have to say, no really, stick with it, no, Big Bang Theory, anything where

you have to say, no really, wait till it gets to the third series. Big Bang Theory and Detectorists, an ideal softener is gently amusing, reasonably short and episodic, so no cliffhangers. We are currently at a bit of a loose end softener wise, so we'd welcome suggestions from the good doctors or perhaps any other listeners for anything that might fit the bill. Yours with all the usual sign offs, Matt in Wingrave. Is there any softener that immediately occurs to you, Mark, otherwise we'll leave this to the listener. No, I mean, I think that the Clarkson's Farm thing, which I haven't started yet, but from what you said about it, it sounds like the absolute perfect softener. I mean, that's

and there's a lot of it out there, right? It's not just one or two episodes. There's a whole stuff that you can binge on, right? Yeah. They're just, just out of the third series. David Renner on the same subject, greetings from organic farmers, organ loft. As a seasoned farmer myself, I was pleased to hear that Simon had been enjoying Clarkson's farm. Although it is not universally loved in the farming community, most farmers see it as a very good thing because, despite the fact that many situations are obviously contrived, it brings some of the deeper realities, difficulties and frustrations of farming to a very wide section of the general public. Despite the artifice, it manages to do this in a way that farmers recognise

as more realistic than the ways that farming is often portrayed in the mainstream media. Clarkson's love of his slice of heaven shines through, as does his wonder and appreciation of the natural world around him. This is refreshing when farmers are often portrayed as environmental vandals. In my experience, farmers are amongst the most enthusiastic naturalists. I'm currently reveling in the sight and song of the skylark, curlew and lapwing, which abound on my farm. I love the show Steve, David Renner. P.S. although my farm in Northumberland is a seven day a week occupation,

I can occasionally sneak away. Last year I journeyed down to that there London at the start of August with Child One. After thoroughly enjoying a certain opera adapted from a book and at the encouragement of Child One, we introduced ourselves to that there Simon Mayo who was also in the audience. Child One still tells people that Simon Mayo shook his hand twice. It was all in all a wonderful short break. Well, firstly, thank you very much for coming to the Itch Opera. That's very nice. But interesting that, as I think we were just alluding to, the whole thing about Clarkson's Farm is whether you like Clarkson or not, it is presenting farming in a far more realistic way and a more joyful way and a softener way than farmers

are normally portrayed. Yeah. Well, I look forward to diving in. And if anyone has any more suggestions as softeners, please let us know. You've heard the rules. Correspondence at KevinOMeo.com. Okay, Garfield time then. You've mentioned this a couple of times.

Yeah, there's a new Garfield movie because everyone was crying out for one. So latest digital animation based on Jim Davis' comic strip character, although the comic strip character, you know, key things, likes lasagna, lazy, gets other people to do the stuff for him. Okay. So, but like the Peter Rabbit film, the name is really just there for brand recognition. I mean, the Peter Rabbit film was Irritating Rabbit. They might as well have called this Hungry Cocky Sarcastic Cat because it doesn't really bear any other relation to the original. So directed by Mark Dindal.

Say that again. Hungry Cocky Sarcastic Cat. That's what I'm going to call it. That's it. That's what they should have called this. So the director, his feature credits include Cats Don't Dance, The Empress, New Groove, Chicken Little, I think. So the new voice cast has Chris Pratt in the title role alongside Sam Jackson as Garfield's estranged father and Hannah Waddingham as a Persian cat called Jinx. Here is a clip.

Okay, follow me Jun. Oh no no no no no no. You lost the privilege of telling me what to do a long time ago. Hello, Fink. Oh dang it! Scarecam! You should have seen your faces! Okay, boys, show me. Hello, Fink.

Oh, dang! Post that ASAP! Haven't seen you since... So as you can see, not a huge amount of connection with the original comic strip. And his voice cast also includes Ving Rhames, Nicholas Holt, Brett Goldstein, Snoop Dogg, Uncle Tom Cobbly and all. And the plot, Garfield is abandoned as a kitten, is then adopted, gets into the house situation that we kind of know, then reunites with his ex-father who is being forced to carry out a high-tech heist on a dairy farm's milk supply and it ends up in a kind of Mad Max style vehicle chase and then a thing with a high-speed train and then drone attacks. Again, you know, not stuff that you'd remember from the original strip got in.

Although the creator of the character has said that he very much approves of Chris Pratt's casting because it embodies all sides of the character. Now you'll remember that some years ago, Fox used to own the Garfield rights and they did these live action animation hybrids, Garfield and the Tale of Two Kitties, both of which were co-written by Joel Cohen.

No, not that one. And Bill Murray's voice, I thought, was kind of perfect for, you know, Garfield, because it's dry and droll and witty and sarcastic. And Bill Murray famously said that he did it because he read the script and it said, so and so, Joel Cohen. And he said, and I thought, well, I love the Coens. They're funny. So I read a few pages and thought, yeah. And then he went on to say in another interview that when they

were doing the thing, he'd kind of forgotten about it. They got away and made the film. And he said, you know, you sit there and I said, what can I say that will make this funny and make it make sense? And it worked. And I worked and I was exhausted and I was soaked with sweat. And so he said it was really, hard, but he kept thinking and he said, who the hell wrote this thing? What on earth was Joel Cohen thinking? Now incidentally, the other writer of the original Garfield movie, somebody said, look, that's a funny story, but it's completely untrue.

He knew who this Joel Cohen was, but it is a good Bill Murray story. However, the fact is you used to have Garfield movies with Bill Murray, even though Bill Murray kind of disowned them. There's a very good joke in Zombieland where Bill Murray is dying and somebody says to him, any regrets? And he says, well, maybe Garfield. That joke is funnier than anything in any Garfield movie. And so what you've done is you've gone from Bill Murray to Chris Pratt, which kind of tells you everything you need to know. I mean, it says a lot that the final credits of this film has got a lot of live action kind of internet clips of cute cats and dogs doing cute things.

And those are cuter and funnier than anything in the film itself. The film itself is just hyperkinetic stuff, lots of famous voice stars, almost no relationship to the original source, whatever the creator of Garfield may or may not say. And it did, it just left me thinking of Bill Murray saying, well, maybe Garfield. I think that's a great lie. It's worth watching the whole thing just for that. I think my favorite end line of a movie this year, which I won't say because it'll spoil it, was in Civil War.

The way they've, you know, it's not a comedy, obviously, but that final scene is definitely played for laughs. That is, it's definitely up there with, you know, nobody's perfect and I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship, isn't it? But unfortunately you can't quote it because it does spoil the film. It does.

Okay, so that's it, that's the end of take one. There's another take, obviously, which has landed adjacent to this. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production from Lily Gully, Vicky Zaki-Matti, and Beth and Jem, who's the producer, and Simon Poole, although he's not here today. Because he's, I think he's on his sun lounger. I think that's what he's doing. Anyway, he's the redactor. Mark, what is your film of the week?

I think it has to be Furiosa don't you I? Well, I do but you've seen all of these you've seen all the others Fury definitely I'll definitely go with that okay take two is available for the subscribers and the Vanguard Easter Thank you very much for listening