Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Greta Gerwig, Oppenheimer, Barbie & The Bear

Episode Date: July 21, 2023

The humanity in growing old. Mattel's uncomfortable history. The undeniability of Ryan Gosling. This week’s episode sees Simon discuss all things ‘Barbie’, already one of the hottest – and pinkest – films of the year, with its wonderfully thoughtful co-writer and director Greta Gerwig. And if that’s not enough, Mark reviews the other big-hitter of the summer, ‘Oppenheimer’, Christopher Nolan’s epic biographical thriller about the scientist who developed the atomic bomb; and the second season of ‘The Bear’, Christopher Storer’s dynamic, heart-filled kitchen comedy, which sees the chefs at The Beef prepare to reopen as a high-end restaurant. Time Codes (relevant only when you are part of the Vanguard): 13:58 The Bear Season 2 Review 23:14 Box Office Top 10 38:19 Greta Gerwig Interview 53:10 Barbie Review 01:01:42 Laughter Lift 01:03:32 Oppenheimer Review 01:14:05 What’s On You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get holiday ready at Real Canadian Superstore. Will you find more legendary ways to save than any other major grocer? Until December 13th, you'll get a free PC turkey when you spend $300 or more. That's right, free only at your Super Holiday Store. Conditions apply to fly for details. What is up? What is up? what is up? This is Simon Mayo. I just like to say that this show would be nothing without the production team who worked day and night to give you the best listener experience possible. All I do is just turn up and read this script.

Word for word, so all hail the magnificent red actor and his minions. I'd also just like to say, I've spent the whole weekend watching the film mother, which I really enjoyed. And I've decided that I'd really like to watch the tip-top movies, Jeremy and the ex-assist at some point. Mark, perhaps you can arrange some screenings. I'd like to watch Jeremy on repeat perhaps next weekend. Could probably squeeze in five or six showings in a day. What do you reckon? That's not me.

No, but actually what's weird is it's quite obviously not you. Yes. I've heard much, I mean, I've heard AI is in which you think, well, you know, that is, well, for a casual listener, I don't know. I think that's close enough. That's AI generated me, isn't it? Yes. Nods from the production team. Interesting how when they wrote the script, the first thing that they put was praise for the show. The first of the other shows.

I think that is extremely, extremely concerning because, hey, look, this is early days. It's going to get better. That's close enough. So if that voice did an advert, for example, for, let's say, GB news, I can imagine people going really, why advertising that, Jenna, me, that's terrible. Okay, let's, let's see what they want. Is it one of me? Okay, let's see what they've done with you.

Thanks, Simon. I just like to get a few things off my chest. First of all, a big apology to Charlie Kaufman, who is a genius and should definitely direct more of his own screenplays. And Sex and the City too is one of the greatest. And I mean, better than Pan's labyrinth, better than a matter of life and death,

the devils in the film, it's a wonderful life. I'd also like to admit that the exorcist is so overrated. I actually prefer watching Avatar, the way of water, and I do actually love Donald Trump. So repeat after me, make America great again. Tinkety-tunk and up with the Nazis. Okay, so what that sounds like to me is a young, a young, well, a little bit of James King with enough of you in there, clearly on, on speed, I would think. I don't know the answer. A bit posh, yeah, a bit posh, it's better.

And I, I mean, I'm, I'm slightly reassured because I think that doesn't sound like us. I mean, I think the AIU sounds more like you, but that's probably because there's more of you in the ether because you broadcast every day. Oh, there's another one, okay, fine, let's have a listen. I have to finally admit that there is only one team in North London, and that team is the mighty Arsenal. Tottenham H Spur are forever in their shadow. This is an undeniable fact. And I was so pleased to see Soul Campbell go

to the mighty Arsenal and win the double. We won the league in black and white as the song goes and we know our place. It's creepy. It is creepy. And it's close enough for us to be in terms of the next general election or the next American presidential election, whatever it is. I mean, it comes up with Greta Goik because obviously because of the strike that's happening in America came up with Simon Pegg last week. Yes. There is absolutely no getting away from the fact that if that's what our team on a very, very limited budget.

And if that's what our team, I mean, if even they... Imagine if you have... Imagine if you have people who can actually do something. No, I mean, imagine that. Imagine that. If you had the resources of a state behind you. Yeah, I know. And a room full of people.

Yeah. As opposed to a shonky internet collection and chat GBT or whatever it's called. I mean, I feel a little bit kind of. We might as well. Why do we even bother with this show now? Why should, you know, one advantage? They think it can just generate.

One advantage of it, Simon, is if AI could do all this for us, you wouldn't have to get, you wouldn't have to have your fight with the taxi every morning Where did you come via this morning? Well it felt like I'd come via Croydon I came from Manchester and I was here by eight o'clock you came from showbiz North London Yes, I think it took you longer then it did to from me for Manchester life shortening experience I'm just grateful to be here, but I'm wondering how much longer they'll actually need us here before they can just type the words that they want us to say. Do do some curmud and mayo flannel when we go on the cruise. Yes. They could just we can we not call the barge trip a cruise. When we go on the barge trip. Why would they

bother hiring people to come and do our show when they can just make a safe stuff like that? Just cast to do it. Yeah, exactly. Just tell what what what what does the GPT stamp GPT chat. What is it stand for? General practice thuggery right right I don't know. I'm sure that our top team Right. I don't know. I'm sure that our top team, generative pre-training what? Transformers. Transformers. Is it like Optimus Pro?

Is that what you used to get our voices like that? Okay. So that was the redacto. What he just said now was in three minutes. Wow. Did that in three? We're just thinking, what are the most ludicrous things we could get you to say and came up with? There's one, there's a podcast called Potsave America

in which they did a long-running joke about, they eyed Joe Biden. And it was uncannily indistinguishable from Joe Biden. Again, I presume because there's more of Joe Biden out in the ether than there is of us. But it was like he was making, when I started listening to the clip, I thought that is Joe Biden.

And then of course, then he starts saying things that you've realized that it's not Joe Biden. Unfortunately, it means you can't, basically we can't trust anything. So if I see you, if I actually see you, for example, run into the sea carrying Ryan Gosling above your head. I know that happened. If I see you do it, then I'll believe that happened. But if I see film of you doing it, my first assumption will be, well, that's not true. Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, well, I'm suitably disconcerted to start the show. I know you're going to ask me to ask you about your t-shirt, so I don't me to ask you about your t-shirt. So why don't you just tell me about the t-shirt now? I know we can. I wasn't going to ask you, but you know, you know what it is. Just tell us about t-shirt. Well, it's a look at looking down. It says Ron and Durk and Stig and Barry,

who are, of course, pre-fab four. Yeah, the ruttles. There you go. So, and it's a new t-shirt I can tell. Four lads, far from home and far from talented. What are we doing on the show today? We're going to be reviewing Barbie Himer because it's Barbie Himer Week, yes.

After all this time, Barbie and Oppenheimer are opening back to back. And we'll also be looking at the bare season two. Greta Goig is gonna be on the show. I'd never met him before, so I was very interested to interview a fool. I did not. I've never met him before at all. Anyway, so you will hear Greta Goig talking about Barbie. Also, our extra takes, more of this kind of general stuff. We can watch List and we can not

list five of which are great in three. You're going to hate bonus reviews. That was that AI. That was actually you. Basically, any mistakes, that was that AI. That was actually you, was it? Basically, any mistakes that are made on the AI. The mistakes that AI, yes. What are the bonus reviews? The bonus reviews are, my name is Alfred Hitchcock and Secret Kingdom. Basically, you wouldn't want your film to come out in Barbie Hymour week, would you? Well, I mean, it's just strange that those two really, really big movies are opening

in the same week, because anyone who runs a cinema knows it's been quite a tough year so far. Things like Mission Impossible, hooray. But it's just suddenly the two biggest blockbusters arrive absolutely together. But it has allowed everybody to make the Barbie home again. I don't think I can recall a movie with more hype than Barbie. I mean, in terms of they a movie with more hype than Barbie. I mean, in terms of they are everywhere, there is pink everywhere, everywhere.

It is quite astonishing. And I was surprised the other day to have a conversation with a young, young somebody in their 20s, but somebody who's fairly plugged in who didn't know about Oppenheimer. Yeah, really? Yeah, astonishing. I bet everybody knows about Barbie. Also, pretentious. While currently Mark Kermode 18 against Mark Kermode 15, one frame back is inspired by

Openheimer. Your recommendation for films about the atomic bomb, they're loads of those. You can spot us via Apple Podcast, head to extra takes.com for non-fruit related devices. If you're already a van Goddys to, as always, and we salute you, don't forget you can get signed merch and we ship now to the US and Australia and it's all a very good thing. I love the fact that we shipped to the US and Australia. It makes us sound so international. We yeah there is actually a special liner which is full of our merch which is like one of those huge kind of barges which goes internationally. It ships to Australia, it ships to America,

and it takes like 10 months to get there. So, you know, don't get too excited. Dear B. Wilson Butthead says, Holly Cruz, B-A-M-A, History of Warwick. Okay. University of Warwick, what did I say? History of Warwick. History of Warwick.

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The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick. The history of Warwick where it is used extensively. Me and my brother love that film as young teens, and while I have no idea if it's aged well or badly, there's still enough of a sniggering teen in me to enjoy the memory of Beavis walking around declaring, I am Corn Holyo, I need TP for my bunghole. I haven't seen that movie so therefore. I had to not remember it. Alan McGuire says,

a dare to sign a nominative and Dr Mark determinism. It is my sad duty to inform you that pork bun is what butchers call a pig's rectum. Pork bun is considered a dish show is taken a very peculiar turn. Pork bun is considered a delicacy in some cuisines and even more unfortunately there are apparently some parts of the world

where if you order calamari You might get served bunghole You're welcome says alemaguya that is your Anyway, who do I mean why would anybody shit? Why would it how can how in any culture can a pigs rectum be considered something that you actually Well would want to eat I do know you know, and you could use it it as a tea towel holder, but why would you want to eat it? Why would you want to hang a tea towel out of a pig's bum? Well, it's just got a useful kind of, you know, you can just pop it in. It's a pig's, well, what would you rather do, put a tea towel in it or eat it? You being a vegetarian, of course. Although, weirdly enough,

if you talk to vegetarians about that sort of thing, what they will tell you is, well, if you're going to kill any animal better that you eat all of it, like Australia. What, all of it? Eddie Beard in Bell Crosse. That was a call back to a joke that was so old, even I had forgotten it. Point number one says Eddie, listening to your tales of taxi drivers. I'm already stressed. Clearly unsuited to their calling, somehow reminded me of an incident 30 something years ago in Tralee in the west of Ireland. Passing through with my father-in-law, who wanted to revisit a bar he had enjoyed frequently and at length in his earlier years,

he remembered the name of the place but a new one-way system added a level of complexity to the task which was beyond us. Google Maps, not yet a twinkle in a tech billionaires. A billionaires eye. After wandering around for a bit, we stopped and asked a man who knew of where we spoke, but struggled to place it in the metropolis of 1990s truly. After much head scratching and a couple of full starts, he finally concluded, now this kind of needs to be said in an Irish accent, which I can't do. You could get AI to do it. You could get AI to do Simon Mayer says something in an Irish accent.

Did that be done? No, apparently it's beyond the current capabilities. You see, if you were a state, you know, you could do it, but- Okay, so I'll do it, but what you're about to hear is an AI version, not me. Okay, because it would be, in general, I think it can be insulting to the people at Gen. You and you talk like this. Yes. Okay, okay, here we go. I'm so looking forward to this now.

So it's his metropolis of 1990s, truly. After much head scratching, a couple of full starts, he finally concluded, if we was heading there, I wouldn't be starting here at all. Now, that was, I'm sorry, that was AI. I was Christopher Walken in whatever that film was called, you know, jolly Irish field. And the saying, if I was heading there, I wouldn't be starting here at all. This has become a much repeated family motto, the sort of cement that binds a family together over the years. Keep up the good work and down with hypocritical journalism.

It's of course, it's a fairly famous phrase, isn't it? If I was going there, I wouldn't start from here. And indeed, inspired REMs can't get there from here. Yes, exactly. But being said in an Irish accent, obviously gives it more charm. Oh, that was charm. I dialed it up to... Dialed it up. ...on the charm levels. You really got five minutes to talk about the bear. Okay, so there's a bit of...

Yes, so the bear season two on Disney Plus, you've seen season one, right? I'm still in season one, to be honest. And the first day at the first few episodes, are so stressful because like working in a kitchen, having consumed espresso permanently, okay, I hope it comes down a bit. And of course it does.

Well, of course, like any of those things, because I watched it round about the same time that boiling point was around and boiling point is now becoming TV series. So there is that thing about you don't get a drama set in a kitchen in which it's, you know, just chill that and hey, you know, let's just let's just shoot the breeze. It's generally, it's a pressure cooker environment is the phrase everybody uses. So, there's season two. In the first season, we saw Carmys, central character, Jeremy Allen White, coming back from fancy shmancy stuff

that he's been off doing back to take over the beef imporium in his hometown of Chicago after his brother has demise. And at the end of the series. No, okay, I don't want to do any spoilers, it's all in that case. All right, so in this series, Carmen and Sydney at a very, are now sort of joint leads of the drama.

They are rebuilding their food, Emporium. They have plans of what they're gonna do, and the series kind of plays out with so many days to opening so They're looking forward to a new venture whilst also remembering the past here as a clip Can I ask you something and you can tell me to If you want When you got that call the three star star call. Yeah, okay, yeah.

I don't know. What do you feel? The first ten seconds felt like a sort of panic because I didn't like it just had to keep them. I had to retain them. Like your brain does this weird thing where it just bypasses any sense of joy and just like attaches itself to dread.

And I don't know, after those 10 seconds, I had to turn over really slow table because the entire United Nations security camera's on its camera. It's so normal, totally normal. Yeah. So I really love the characters and I love the fact that now there's this kind of, there's this, the two of them sort of absolutely sent a stage. So he totally looks like a master chef would look. He does, doesn't he? No, absolutely. This is one of the dramas in which the actors really inhabit the role. So Oliver Platt's Uncle Jimmy is in as an investor. 18 months, they repay the investment,

or he gets everything. Cousin Richie, not your cousin. Worrying about his role, he's 45, where am I, what am I doing? Am I gonna be here for a while? The issues are sort of the same as they were before. The relationship between food and life and work. What are the rules of work? What are the rules of work, what are the rules of work,

what are the rules of food, what are the rules of family? Obviously that film, Big Night, the Stanley Tucci film from many years ago, which was sort of like the ear text for a lot of this stuff. You've never seen Big Night, you should watch it, it's really, really, really brilliant. When you say ear text, I know what it means,

but it's sort of like the sort of the load stone, the kind of the sump, the, I don't want to say platonic ideal, but it's something like that, isn't it? What is the, you're better linguistically than me. What's the actual definition of text? I can't remember what I'm going to look at now. It's like, earth house on the middle of Earth Street. And so we built towards the opening and each one of the, each, each member of the cast starts to grow. And I think if you're familiar with the whole of series one, the thing that you will find about series two is that it is more expansive.

What does it say about Earth text? You got it? Er text, primordial and text meaning text. Retext, okay, fine. So yes. Text that is believed to proceed both the Septogen in Classcom text, text check out Big Night, you're really like it. It is more expansive that you get to see the characters grow, you get to see it's like the kind of the palette of the thing expands.

And then I think it's episode six, there is an hour long episode which takes place in a Christmas way before. So it's a kind of, you know, it's this, and we are suddenly taken back to this family Christmas meal. And it is a really, I mean, it is in a way the kind of episode three of the last of us. In which what happens is you see the characters

as they were before, you see the family environment, the kitchen in which it's all happening, there are five conversations going on at any one time, this chaotic melee that kind of makes the cooking scene from good fellas seem positively dialed down. You have Bob Odin Kirk as uncle, not your uncle. You have Jamie Lee Curtis as the mom who is just getting increasingly rattled and increasingly drunk and increasingly kind of out of control. You've got this pop soundtrack going on in the background, which

in Tire Songs play out. And quite early on, they start playing Beyond Belief by Elvis Costello. And Beyond Bel belief actually in a way, you remember how that starts? It's very quiet. Duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, and then you hear Pete Thomas come in, the drums come in, and the drums, and they're building really madly in the background.

The story of that song when they recorded it. Apparently Pete Thomas had been out. He had enjoyed a few adult beverages. He came in and he hadn't prepared anything. And Elvis Costello said, all right, you better be good. And he did that mad, mad, mad drumming in one take. And in a way, there is that kind of madness in this.

You get this whole sense of this Christmas dinner is going to explode in every possible way. And it does, and it's kind of touching and moving. And you get to know the characters and you get to, you get to, you sort of in a way, get to understand why everything that happens in series one does happen. I think this is called part two rather the series. I don't think it's the bare part too. But it's really, it's, so you, so you've got essentially the build up to the, to the reopening of the refurb place. And then you've got this big sort of set piece thing. I haven't yet got to the end of the series, but I'm loving it because I love...

It feels so natural. I mean, the way in which the conversations go over each other, the way in which you can see each individual character genuinely growing before your eyes. And it does have that frantic feel to it, but it also has something that feels slightly more, slightly richer. As if, I suppose it's just because you've spent time with them and you've got to know them. I think you'll really like it. I really liked it. Best season two is on Disney+. It's part two technically, I think. Well, it's bettis. Yeah, it's bettis. Yeah, it's bettis. Yeah, it's bettis. Yeah, it's bettis. And it's on Disney+. In the UK, still to come on this fantastic episode

of the Take Us Mark, Bashes is microphone again. Two small independent movies, Oppenheimer, and Barbie with our special guest, Greta Goig. We'll be back before you can say, it still remains unrecognized that to bring a child into existence without a fair prospect of being able, not only to provide food for its body,

but instruction and training for its mind is a moral crime both against the unfortunate offspring and against society. The words of John Stuart Mill, who of his own free will, the half-finish shanning was particularly ill. We get to that every time. We get to that every time. Hi, esteemed podcast listeners, Simon Mayow. I'm Mark Kermot here. I'm excited to let you know that the new season of the Crown and the Crown, the official podcast, returns on 16th of November to accompany the sixth and final season of the Netflix epic Royal

Drama series. Very exciting, especially because SuperSub and Friend of the Show Edith Bowman hosts this one. Indeed, Edith will take you behind the scenes, dive into conversation with the talented cast and crew from writer and creator Peter Morgan to the crowns Queen Elizabeth, Imelda Staunton. Other guests on the new series include the Crown's research team, the directors, executive producers Suzanne Mackie and specialists such as Voice Coach William Connaker and props

master Owen Harrison. Cast members including Jonathan Price, Selim Dor, Khalid Abdullah, Dominic West and Elizabeth DeBicki. You can also catch up with the story so far by searching The Crown, the official podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe now and get the new series of The Crown, the official podcast first on November 16th. Available wherever you get your podcasts. Happy Nord Christmas.

Protect yourself whilst Christmas shopping online and access all the Christmas films from around the globe. Plus, when you shop online, you'll have to give websites your card details and other sensitive data like your personal addresses. Those websites should already have their own encryption built into their payment systems, but to be on the safe side, you can use a VPN to ensure that all data coming to and from your device is encrypted. Even if you're using an unsafe Wi-Fi, you'll still be able to shop securely with a VPN. And you can access Christmas films only available overseas by using streaming services not available in the UK.

To take our huge discount of your NordVPN plan, go to nordvpn.com-take. Our link will also give you four extra months for free on the two-year plan. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money back guarantee. The link is in the podcast episode description box. Okay, well, an email here from Richard, who signs it, Richard brackets 125 babies named as Richard in the last year. If that's right. Yeah. Watcher, he starts.

Watcher. And he calls us Jack and Vic. He's watching Still Game again, and somehow the two old Scottish OAPs in still game again remind him of us because we're world often statler was the people that we usually look like. Anyway, looks like there is this is back on your history. Oh, yes. And me being unfailing downgraded because they made a mistake in the paper. Oh, Richard says, it looks like there is a past and he calls it an O.C.S.E. Board History paper for 1979, which is when Mark ought to have been sitting it. No, no, because we figure that this is my A level, not my O level.

We figure I got it wrong after having complained about my O level, I was actually in my A level, so it was 1981 or two. He was talking about, is the Treaty of San Stefano. No, it's not. But that's a very good email, but that's not because I was actually, as I corrected myself afterwards, it wasn't my O level, it was my A level. And that means it was 1981 history. It's time to move on. It is. Well, it really isn't time to move on. I think, well, I've turned 60 and I'm still carrying this grudge. What would it take for you to just let it go? They get up my grade.

Do you like to have my day in? I would like to, but I can't. I can't eat on Wednesdays. You can just eat air and dust. Or I can just watch people preparing lovely food. Box office. Box office, top 10 at number 54, Medusa. Jonathan on the YouTube channel here says,

it's worth mentioning here. What do you tell us about Medusa? And then I'll read out this thing. Well, I liked it very much. It's kind of, it's, it's jello inspired in terms of the way it looks like it looks like a Darryi agenda film from the 1970s and it is about a vigilante group who are a Christian inspired and decide to go out into the streets and beat people up who they don't think are behaving

in the name of God, in the name of God. And then this then leads them onto this search for somebody who was famously attacked in the past and who they think if they find her, she will be a symbol of sinfulness that will put everybody else off. But obviously what happens is other things happen. I thought I really enjoyed it. Jonathan says it, it's worth mentioning here,

Anita's debut film Kill Me Please from 2015, which is literally, as if David Lynch directed Mean Girls in Brazil. It's also super-satirical relation to the terror of Femisside in the country, but much less scary than Medusa. Maybe because the country, presumably means Brazil, as the world has also become much more terrible since then. Medusa must be watched in theaters. The sound work is also magnificent, along with a goblin-like soundtrack. Yes, and of course that's again that takes us back to

Ojento. Number 44 is a kind of kidnapping? I wasn't a fan. Number 22, while we watched, I thought a very, very interesting documentary about somebody on Indian news channel attempting to speak the truth whilst competing with a bunch of other stations that are just spouting propaganda. Squaring the circle, is it 21? Documentary about the making of album covers, which I was really fascinated by, although I did realise that there are generationally, there are now an entire generation of people who don't know what a 12-inch album cover is.

In the top 10, at 10, seven in America, Transformers rise of the beasts. The second best Transformers movie. I know that sounds like a low bar, but that's what it is. Number nine here. Number 12 in the states, Ruby Gilman, teenage crackin. I thought it was good fun. It was kind of empowering, and it was a fun story, and I still like the joke about why you blew I'm from Canada.

Nine in the UK, eight in the US, no hard feelings. Quite rightly described as, as if there was a rift in the time space continuum and a movie that Jennifer Lawrence had made that nobody knew about in the 1980s suddenly popped up here. I know that doesn't actually work out. I'm just what I'm saying, as if because obviously Jennifer Lawrence wouldn't have been able to be making the movies in the 1980s. But you're surprised.

I'm surprised about the movie. Yeah, because it looks like that's what it was. Number seven in the UK 11 in the States asteroid city. I mean, it's chalk and cheese, but it's done pretty well. I mean, it's in its fourth week, it's still in the top 10. I wasn't the fan. I know that some was Anderson fans, I'm enthusiastic.

Are you really, really like it, not me. Six in the UK 10 in America, the little mermaid. No surprise that it's done well. Kind of reassuring after you consider all the absolutely racist bile that was thrown at it when it was first announced and when the first trailer's dropped. That it, you know, of course it's found its audience. Of course it has. Spider-Man across the spider-verse is at number five.

Terrific piece of animation and for my money the best of the sort of multiverse movies. Number four is Incidious, The Red Door. Now you'll remember we discussed this last week. Wasn't press green. I said, I'll see it over the weekend. And you said, will you? And I said no. So you made a claim, which was then immediately retracted.

It's debunked. And I was, I was right. You didn't say it. I didn't say it. Well, Robyn Liverpool has. My wife and I went to watch Inc Cidious, the Red Door, at a jam-packed showcase cinema in Liverpool. Excellent.

We're fans of the series, but I suspect that was a hindrance when watching this fifth installment. Whilst the other movies are spooky fun, this is almost an attempt using the backstory of In Cidious 1-2, 1-2, to create an elevated horror movie, elevated, inadvertently. In which the supernatural elements were in the background, and the serious matter of divorce, childhood trauma

and parent-child relations were in the foreground. Took a long time to get going. We didn't see nearly enough lipstick faced demon, bride in black, or any alternative inhabitants of the further. In a vertical mess. Sinclair, Daniel did her best in the comic role, but is no replacement of Lin Shane all in all. It wasn't terrible, but a bit boring. And certainly a disappointment to any fans of the earlier movies.

Jeffrey and Manchester. Having followed the conjuring series and enjoyed most, I went into the fifth in Sidious film with hope and expectation. This particular series of sequels had entertained with the second volume being a particular favourite. How disappointing. For complete lack of ideas, the film takes up the story 10 years after the final chapter and decides that the only way to reach the further, beyond the red door, is to go down the Freddie Kruger route that being killed in your dreams can kill you in reality. It's a very lame and eventually a scarcely believable route.

The key concept is about suppressed memories. And I truly never felt even a free song of being afraid for the characters. I can't even recall a jump scare. I wish I could suppress all memory of this film. I found the previews of Blumhouse upcoming features more thrilling than the main event, particularly Tongue of Farewell to this series. So that's maybe you're not going to be encouraged to go and see it. No, but I will see it when it comes to streaming. Just not going out to do it. Number three here, number four in the States, uh, Indiana Toby Jones and the dial of

destiny. Do you want to say, because we saw, we both saw this. Joe Foster says it's simply not much fun. Gone, gone are the physical comedy moments in the action sequences or the humorous interplay between characters. It was, it was competently made and I like James Mangold's work, but I wish Spielberg was in the directing chair again. I know that they wanted to explore themes of getting older, but it had to be so joyless. It felt like an Indiana Jones adventure and more like Logan, it felt less like an Indiana Jones adventure, more like Logan in a fedora. And so I thank heavens for Phoebe Waller Bridges, Spunky and Fun Performance as Helena and the short but memorable appearance of Toby Jones brought so much needed life to proceedings. Okay, well, Toby Jones' appearance isn't that short. I mean, he does, he does play quite a major

role quite early on and hooray for that. The thing at the comparison with Logan is I think one that James Mangold would obviously like. I think if the thing with the film is when I ended up interviewing James Mangold just because of the way it worked out, I think that there wasn't really that stuff about age and time. I mean, yes, it's there to some extent just because the actors have got older and there's the de-aging stuff. But I thought it was just, you know, it's just kind of, it's an Indiana Jones romp and it kind of does what it does and it's utterly preposterous in the final act. But then that's what Indiana Jones does. It's certainly no more preposterous than the previous one. And of course, it doesn't have Shilah Buffenit, which is a good

thing. Number two here, number five in the States is Elemental. It's now impossible for me to distinguish between what I think about the movie and what I think about the movie since hearing your interview with its director. It was one of those interviews which really made me like the movie. When I saw it before that interview, I thought it was fine. I thought it wasn't classic Pixar, but I thought it was fine. I had some issues with just the sheer physics of fire and water. And then your interview, which was really all about family and personal stuff, just made it feel like a deeper film than I had thought it was. And now that's the

version of it in my head. And number one is number one here. Number one in the States is mission impossible. No, dead reckoning. No, it's coming at number one after opening last Monday, which is fairly astonishing to contrasting views. Andrew Fairbrass, first of all, dear Benji and Luther with Jason born long since packed away, that left two super spies on the big screen. And if no time to die, didn't kill off James Bond, then this absolute action thrill ride certainly will. There is now only one, and the name is Hunt, Ethan Hunt. Whatever you think sets the bar for an action movie, then just throw that out of the window and forget it. Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning takes that bar and sends it into the stratosphere. And certainly, if there

was any doubt following his recent return in Top Gun Maverick? Top Gun Maverick! Mission Impossible, Cement, Tom Cruise's place in cinema history as the biggest star of his and possibly any generation. This is an event in capital letters, a thrilling, exhilarating action masterpiece. There is no question in my mind.

It's the greatest action movie ever made. And we'll shoot into the collection of my all-time favorite films. For me, Caps here, this is the greatest action movie ever made and will shoot into the collection my all-time favorite films. For me, Caps here, this is the greatest action film ever made and it's only part one. Keep up the good work, Helo Gio. And you said that Simon Pegg said in his interview, you wait to see part, I mean, obviously, of course he's going to say that, but he said the stunts are even bigger in parts, right? Yes.

Nick, South African currently living in Wetsford in Ireland. I have been astonished at the levels of praise being heaped on this latest mission in possible installment. A five-star film, as Simon noted last week, I have only once left a cinema more crushingly disappointed than I did after Dead Rekking Part 1, and that was after The Dark Knight Rises. Back in 2012, it seemed like I was completely out of set with public and critical, or it didn't seem like it you were. Public and critical said,

most viewed that film as a fittingly thrilling and dramatically satisfying conclusion to one of cinema's finest trilogies. I found it to be willfully confusing, bloated, and worst of the lot boring. My biggest problem was the dialogue. There is a scene early on in which several top ranking intelligence folks sit in a room speaking like the AI they are describing. Each person taking it in turns to finish the previous person's sentence. It's an expositional technique I find annoying, Star Wars I'm looking at you, but which I can forgive in small doses if it is getting a big info dump across in a snappy fashion.

The problem here was the weird artificial cadence with which these actors were delivering the lines combined with the Hoki Dutch angles. What are Dutch angles? On the squiff. So it's often thought the Dutch angles are called Dutch angles as an ironic thing because Holland is flat, but it's actually a Deutsche angle, meaning German is to do with German film that make us coming over to Hollywood and shooting stuff on the shunk, which was an kind of expressionist thing. Okay. Hoki Shonki angles. But that wasn't bad, wasn't it?

That was very good. I was willing to move past it until the same thing happened at least four more times during the films, inexcusably long-running time. The scene in the Venice party was arguably worse than the earlier one. Anyway, there are others, but let's see where we are with Mission Impossible, which I saw for a second time this week, actually. Tom Cruise drives a real motorbike off the side of a mountain, then parachutes down whilst doing the actual dialogue with Simon Pegg, and that's only the beginning of the last movement of the film, which I think is one of, if not the most exciting nail-biting action sequences I have ever seen. I think the film itself, I mean, there are flaws, the plot makes no sense, the AI thing is called

the entity, all that stuff. Who cares? It's that weird thing about when they're explaining the plot and the cadences. That is the dictionary definition of going straight to the heart of the periphery. It's a mission impossible film in which you pay your money and you get a series of big set piece sequences that I mean the the the the running around in the in the little car sequence which goes I mean it's brilliant. The running through the streets of Venice. It's brilliant. The whole the rank of the streets of Venice, it's brilliant. The whole, whatever is wrong with mission impossible, to come out of it bored is astonishing. I mean, I would say Nick, you know that time when you were out of step with the dark night rises, that.

I mean, you know, I was having a seat for the second time. Yeah. The scariest bit is just, I think, which is genuinely heart-stopping. He's the bit just before he does the motorbike jump. When he rides on his motorbike straight up to the edge of the cliff, does a kind of a screechy turn and looks off the edge. Okay, he did that and that is terrifying. Yeah, the thing I find most terrifying is the whole of the last 20 minutes on the train thing, When the thing happens, and then the other thing happens,

and then another, and you think, how long is this gonna go on for? And it keeps happening. Jake Daniels says, Mission Impossible Seven was a Hodgpod regurgitation of remade movie scenes loosely bound by a horrific screenplay that felt like the fold over story game I used to play as a kid. Hunt for a October to begin with, actually a good start,

we then went downhill from there to a desert storm shootout in a sandy paintball arena with an inexplicable use of an optional eye patch. From there, an Italian job car chase, a John Wick party, a few murders on the orange express before recreating the original Mission Impossible's fight on a train roof, or was it specter, unclear? A short trip to Jurassic Park

as they climbed me inside of a falling carriage before cruise, somehow found more altitude at the bottom of a valley to continue his flying descent. Some good action scenes that doesn't justify overused tropes and underdeveloped female characters. A song with an excellent guitar solo will still be bad if the drummer is killing cats with his kick pedal. I just like that phrase. It's not, he doesn't crawl through a carriage. And that is true. And thereby, and that's the key thing, he doesn't crawl through a carriage. That's the point. I understand Nick's point about a rumful of people and they're all finishing each other's sentences, But it's snappy. It's not real.

And it's like this, this is mission impossible. No, no. It's also a film in which in the first five minutes, there's a Scooby-Doo reveal in which someone pulls off a mask and they would have got away from it. It hadn't been for you pesky kids. And you go, oh, yeah, sorry. We're back in the world in which you can put masks on and you start wondering, but hang on, does the mask go over the eyelid? Does it go to the lips? Why have your teeth changed as well? Because the teeth weren't part of the mask. And actually

you put the mask on and you become a different height. And the shoe tag. You got, I don't care, it's mission impossible. And the shoe tag and the desert storm with the sand storm coming in. I thought it was fantastic. And it is even better. Second time around. Anyway, thank you very much. Getting touched, correspondence at curbidermayard.com. Coming in a moment, it's the time where we have to talk about Barbie and Oppenheimer, which means Barbieheimer. Next. This episode is brought to you by Mooby, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating

great cinema from around the globe. From my connect directors to emerging otters, there's always something new to discover, for example. Well, for example, the new Aki Karri's Mackey film Fallen Leaves, which won the jury prize at Cannes, that's in cinemas at the moment. And if you see that and think I want to know more about Aki Karri's Mackey, you can go to movie The Streaming Service and there is a retrospective of his films called How to Be a Human. They are also going to be theatrical releasing In January Priscilla, which is a new Sophia couple of film, which I am really looking forward to since I have an Elvis obsession.

You can try movie free for 30 days at movie.com slash kermedon mayo. That's m-u-b-I dot com slash Kermit and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. With banking packages from Scotia Bank, you can put money back in your pocket. That's how Marcus was able to invest in everything he needed to launch his podcast about his pets. Welcome back to PetGasd.

Visit ScotiaBank.com slash welcome offer, Scotia Bank conditions apply. VisitSgoShabing.com slash welcome offer. Scotiabank conditions apply. Just before we get into barbieheimer, and I know you were eluding to this at the beginning of our podcast, do you think it's a mistake that both of these movies are coming out of the same? It's a coincidence, but there have been discussions about, do you have to go one, you have to go see the other? And of course, you can go see both. It's a coincidence, but there have been discussions about, do you have to go one, you have to go see the other?

And of course, you can go see both. It's fine. And so on the one hand, you can say, well, it just makes people excited about going to the cinema. On the other hand, if you are running a cinema, it kind of helpful if the big blockbusters arrive in three week, you know, gap because then you, then you can ride the wave a little bit easier. It is, it is weird. It's been, it's been a difficult year for cinema owners and this is great, but it would be greater if they were spread out. Well, we'll spread them out. We'll put Oppenheimer shortly.

Shortly. First of all, we're going to talk Barbie and you'll hear Mark's review after you've heard my conversation with Greta Goik, which is coming along after this clip. Hey, what's cooking good looking? Hi, welcome, welcome to my beard house. What can I do you for? I just had to come see you about my feet. There, um... Flat. Yeah. I've never seen that before. Really?

What? What do I have to do? You have to go to the real world. You can go back to your regular life and forget any of this ever happened. Or you can know the truth about the universe. The first one, the high heel. No, we'll do what we do. You're supposed to want to know.

And that is a clip from Barbie, as I think you probably realized, and I'm delighted to say it's director and co-writer, Greta Goek is with us, Hello Greta. Hello. How are you feeling now that all your work is done? And it's about to be unleashed. It's been working on this for a while. Do you get a nervous? Are you anxious? Yes. I'm extremely nervous and extremely anxious. I'm also grateful.

It's been really just a joy to bring it to people and and sit you know I sat with an audience a few nights ago and Los Angeles and it just you know We made it for people so we want it to be in cinemas, but at the same time It's you know, you're letting go of something. It's not mine anymore I also can't control it anymore, which is very difficult to meet for me, but I'm I'm I'm I'm excited, but I'm also anxious. And does the story start with Margot Robby approaching you? Is that the beginning of your involvement? Yes, she approached me as a writer, and then I brought on Noah Boundback, who's my partner in life and art. And so initially it was a writing project and what does she say she said I my company

And Warner Brothers we have the rights to Barbie did like to make it into movie Do you want to write it and I guess they said yes, it's actually hard to remember now because I I had a newborn baby when that started and I have a newborn baby again now And it's very hard to construct your mindset in the like the two months after having a baby. You're sort of like, I don't know what I was thinking exactly. But something in me was thought it might be interesting. So there wasn't a story she didn't come to you with a story. She said, let's begin at the beginning. It's Barbie. She said, it's Barbie, what do you want to do? And I said, do do do give me about a year and I'll think of something. And so that seems like it's quite a jump

from from little women. And I know one of the things that's come up a lot in all the movies that we're talking about is lockdown and COVID and the effect of that on film production. But also in story writing, because if I've got this right, you and Noah wrote this during lockdown. We did, yeah. Do you think that's obvious when we go and see the movie? I suppose it's obvious in any sort of like... Is it more unhinged, I guess, as well? Yes, well, it definitely is more unhinged, but I don't think it's, I think, as soon as you say it,

when you see the movie, you're like, oh, I could see why that was the case. I mean, I think a lot of it is just what I was sort of saying at the top was We did we we so wanted We missed going to the movie theater. We love going to movie theater And I think it was part of it was fueled by the sense of Well, if we ever get back there. let's just do the craziest, most outrageous thing we can think of. And I think it freed us up, too, because nothing was getting made for a moment, nothing was being released, and everybody's response of like, well, they'll never let you make this. And I was like, well, they're already not making movies. Why don't they not make this one, too? And that was kind of allowed us to be anarchic and wild.

And at what stage did you think I want to direct this? You know, fine, I can write it, but really, this is my film. After the script was written, I mean, for me, it's it once we had the script that was when I wanted to direct it, because for me, that's the, I think the idea of directing a Barbie movie wasn't that interesting to me it was directing this Barbie movie and it made it very simple in a way because if they didn't want to do it then I I didn't need to make a Barbie movie so I felt less pressure maybe than you might if you really wanted to just do any Barbie movie but at one

week it when it came down to changing stuff for making things different, it was really like, well, I don't need to do this. You don't want to do it this way. I don't have any interest in it. And so that was kind of, I think it emboldened everybody. And I mean, treat us to obviously come, you know, you read it the way, but the conversations with Mattel, because obviously, I'm always owned by Mattel. Mattel come out of this not very well really. And I wonder if the Lego movie was kind of like a

touch-down here, you just say, you know, you know, this is, we are going to make fun of you. We are going to make, we are going to point out the kind of uncomfortableness of some of our baubs. You've got to go along with that. Yes, they definitely had to get comfortable with being uncomfortable, I'd say. But either proof is in the Yes, they definitely had to get comfortable with being uncomfortable I'd say but either proof is in the pudding they did it But I think it was it just took it took a minute to wrap their heads around it But I think we just felt like the fact that it is a doll made by a corporation and that it's a doll with this complex history If we deny that then what are we doing and what doll with this complex history. If we deny that, then what are we doing?

And when you say complex history, what do you mean? Well, I mean, this sort of history of Barbie, where Barbie, if she were a real woman, couldn't stand up. Because physically it would be impossible. And so we're holding her up to be a physical ideal. And yet she would be completely non-functional as a human being.

I think that is sort of the initial kind of seed of the complaint about Barbie and then you know, sometimes she's been ahead of culture and sometimes she's been behind culture. I think that that's what made her so fascinating is that like, you know, she went to the moon before women could have credit cards, but you know, she she also embodied in proportions that are physically unsustainable. It's part of explaining the story. There's just one scene, we actually isn't fundamental to the story,

but I wonder if it explains what you're trying to do. Is there's a scene when Barbie has left Barbie land, which is sort of like a garden of Eden, really. And you've gone to Venice Beach, which is probably the most Barbie kind of place that you can take off. She finds herself looking at an old woman, older woman, which she hasn't seen before. Can you just explain that scene and why it was important? Yeah, well, she looks at a woman who is actually a friend of mine, but when brilliant customer Anne Ross, she's, she was 91 when we shot that.

And she is, yeah, she's looking great. And she, yeah, she was a customer of, I mean, she did the costumes for Midnight Cowboy Include. I mean, she's the legend. I think she's one of the oldest people to ever win in Oscar recently. Anyway, she's fabulous and I had to really promise to have a lot of martinis with her to get her to do this movie. But you know, Barbie's sort of looking around at the world and then looks at her and takes her in. And she's never seen, she's never seen aging before and she's struck by her and she says, you're so beautiful. And Anne, as this woman says, I know it. And it's such a wonderful moment because I mean, Anne is fabulous. And B is just this kind of connection through time.

And I think one thing I'm always interested in as a filmmaker is women talking to each other through generations. I think that's fascinating to me. And then, you know, it's this first glimmer of humanity, of like, with idealization, of, you know, kind of, of like, oh, this is the ideal way that someone looks or is, or even with optimization, of like, we're going to make you better, stronger, faster. Like, there's kind of this hysteria around maximizing everything. And I think sometimes the part where you age or things break down isn't without its own beauty.

I always think of the paintings that Monet made when his site was going and unbelievably beautiful. So I don't know that everything always has to be optimized. Was it always going to be Ryan Gosling for Ken? Always, always. It was going to be Ryan Gosling. There was no other person. It was written for him. I don't think he believed me when I first told him that. I think he thought that was just a thing I was saying, but it was true. I couldn't imagine anyone else. He's very funny. He's incredible. I didn't realize quite how funny he could be. I actually did somehow.

I don't know why I knew that. I mean, he's been very funny. He hosted SNL a few times. And I thought, oh, he's a secret funny person. Who's your target audience, do you think? I'd like everyone to be my target audience. We had an email on the program from a father who'd taken his six-year-old daughter, to see Elemental the new parts of film. like everyone to be my target audience. I was struck, we had an email on the program from the father

who'd taken his six year old daughter to see Elemental the new parts of film. And a trailer came up for your movie which had some of the beach jokes in there and he thought, okay, well, it's not for her. Right. Well, I think I think I would say that there's definitely a lot of different jokes

that cut in a lot of different directions. There's nothing that's scandalous. I mean, I also think, I have a 13 year old stepson and I've been watching movies with him for a long time and he has certainly seen lots of cities destroyed and lots of superhero movies and I figure, if you can watch a city destroyed, you can certainly hear some jokes.

Can I ask you about the strikes because you're here. You remember and the screen actors, as we speak, the screen actors, the scripted on strike, the writers are on strike. I was wondering, right, whether all the promotion for Barbie would go ahead, where it's a difficult situation isn't it for you to have the street in the moment.

Yeah, well, I'm a three guild member. I'm a member of screen actor's guild, the director's guild, and the writer's guild. So, you know, two of my guilds are on strike. I support them 100%. I mean, everything stopped. I'm here as a director because the director's made a deal and everything sort of ground to a halt. And I think it's a it's a moment of massive change. And I think there need to be, you know, obviously writers, actors, there needs to be a living wage. And also, there need to be protections of, you know, all these these things that are changing just honestly

before our eyes in terms of what capabilities of AI and everything else are, which I feel like I learn about daily. Well, Simon Pegg last week, we were talking about a specific impossible film, but we were talking about AI there. And it's, although his movie is about AI, in your industry, it's clearly seen as something to be extremely worried about.

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's, I was actually just saying this in the hallway. I do feel like every day I find out what it does or can do it because it keeps changing. I mean, I think it's something where, you know, I don't quite know what to say about what it is. I mean, why I engage with art is because I want to see something that was made by another human being

or a group of human beings. And kind of that they in some way are saying, here is how it looks to us, whether it's, you know, making a song or writing a poem or making a movie. It's like from that vantage point and the specificity of that. And I think now where it gets confusing, and I don't have an answer for it, and I don't think anybody else does is, but if these models, these AI models are trained on everybody, do they have all our souls already? I don't know. I really don't know the answer to this, and I don't think anybody does.

So I couldn't tell you, but it's something where I think in the meantime, having protections and guardrails around industries are important as it develops and then we'll see sort of where we end up. But I think, you know, I think that the last time there were a lot of strikes, they didn't even have a word for streaming. They called it, I believe, like, new media. And it was important that they established some card rails around these this new media because you know obviously it's wound up somewhere very specific and I think you know the guilt are always good at looking ahead and saying like Well, why don't we create some language here so that we're not just willy nilly, you know letting our members and our workers go unprotected Gotta go, thanks you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

go and protect it. Thank you. Thank you. I was being told to stop. You get somebody doing the windmill thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Being told stuff. But all that last answer, I think what you heard was a fantastic film director

and writer really struggling with where we are. And as she said, I don't know what the answers are, but it's clearly that answer put next to Simon Peggs answer. Last week means this is an industry which is in turmoil too strong. No, I think turmoil is right. I think it's, you know, the pieces are all up in the air. And nobody's quite sure how they're going to fall. Anyway, but it was one of those where they were the person running the interview junk it. They wanted it to stop, but Greta was speaking.

I didn't ask any other question. I know. I wanted to know what she's working on next on this kind of stuff. Didn't get there because that was the answer that she gave us. We're talking about AI. Anyway, that's all very interesting, but Barbie is certainly everywhere. What do you think? Well, the first thing I'd say is one of the things you say in that interview is that

Mattel don't come out of it very well. I think they do. Well, by the end, let me be clear by this. What I mean is, I think they should be absolutely ecstatic because essentially what the film has done is to reinvent and rehabilitate Barbie in a way that I don't know that another version of this film would do. When Greta Gerwig said, I wanted to make this Barbie movie, not any other Barbie movie, and the position was, well, if you don't want to make this Barbie movie, get someone else to do it, was really, really telling because you spoke in that interview, terrific interview,

and she's great questions, and she's a really smart filmmaker. When she was talking about the history, the conflicted history of Barbie, and there is, absolutely conflicted history of Barbie, that there are many parallel stories, but one of the things that I thought of watching, when I was watching this, and I should say, right at the beginning, I really enjoyed it. You and I saw it together. We laughed at many of the same jokes. We came out with a spring in our step, I really enjoyed it. You and I saw it together. We laughed at many of the same jokes. We came out with a spring in our step. I think it was a very enjoyable experience. And there are elements of Toy Story 2, or there are elements of the Pinocchio story. There are, I think, nods towards Josie and the pussycaps, the live action film, which actually wasn't a big

hit when it came out, but then became a cult thing after that. I think you can see, you know, echoes of Beyond the Valley of the Dolls. I think all those things are in there. But one of the things that I thought of whilst watching it was Todd Haynes' very early underground film, Superstar, The Karen Carpenter Story, which we've spoken about before, in which the story of Karen Carpenter is told with Barbie Dolls. And it's, they're not, they're animated, but they're literally animated just below camera level. So it's just people moving the Barbie dolls around. And it sounds like a stupid idea. But in fact, it's a brilliant idea. And what it does is a very, very serious, look at her career and the life struggles that she had as a result of her eating disorder, which it ties up with the way in which she is supposed to be,

the way in which she is supposed to present the image that she is meant to conform to. And I mean, I'm a huge carbon-dose fan, and I think Superstar is a really, really brilliant and compassionate film. It's never been officially released because they never cleared the rights. But that is using Barbie as a sort of metaphor.

Look, this is what you're meant to look like. And actually trying to look like that is not sustainable. And of course, Gratica, essentially, the Barbie doll couldn't stand up and is not life sustainable. Well, actually, weirdly enough, although this is at the other end of the spectrum, I mean, this is a huge, big blockbuster movie that's pink, candy floss, all that sort of stuff,

I think there is a weird connection with the Todd Haynes thing. Is that they're both dealing with what the image of Barbie is that on the one hand, there is that whole thing. On the other hand, there is, as she said, that Barbie goes to the moon before women are allowed to have credit cards. And in the Barbie land of the film, Barbies are everything. Barbies are, you know, the novelists and their Nobel Prize winners and their presidents and their blah blah blah blah. So we're in this fancy world and in the gag at the beginning, everyone's seen the 2001 trailer, that's actually the beginning of the film. Helen Mirren narrates this thing very sordonically. And, um, and then she says, of course, you know, what

happened was that Barbie came along, proved that women could be anything. And therefore that solved all the problems of sexism and inequality in the real world. And that is how the Barbie land, Barbies believe. That's what's going on. And then as we heard from that clip, Margot Robbie's stereotypical Barbies heels full. And she said, what's going on?

And it turns out that in the real world, somebody's been playing with her and somehow she's suddenly dealing with anxiety and thoughts of death and the prospect of cellulite which is the horsemen of the apocalypse. And so in a way that Harks back to enchanted in which Amy Adams is a fairy tale princess who ends up in New York and you know in central pocket, it's a very similar sort of set up. She goes into the real world where she discovers that actually the Barbie hasn't solved the problems. In

fact, she meets a young woman who says you've set the cause of feminism back by 50 years you fascist. Meanwhile, Ryan Gosling's Ken, who is an appendage without an appendage and has spent the whole of his life just waiting for Barbie to notice him turns up in the real world and it realizes that the patriarchy is great. It's a very funny line when Barbie says it fact explains that she and Ken both are without sexual organs which said so matter of fact, please. Yeah, but also the thing the thing that when Ken first discovers the patriarchy,

he thinks it means that the world is run by men and horses. It's only later on that he realizes that the horses aren't in control. Anyway, so that conceit is a smart clever conceit. Now, there obviously, the Bobby movie had been in development for ages. There was a previous incarnation that Anne Hathaway was down to doing and that didn't happen because it went from sunny to warners. And then, I think Margot Robbie is perfect

for this role, obviously she's a producer, as you say there. She's so perfect that there's even a gag in the narration about how perfect she is for the role. The film gets away with because it's such a perfect role. And I think that the smartness of it is that it manages to have its cake and eat it. It manages to celebrate and satirize and deconstruct the Barbie mythology. And at the end of it, you come out actually feeling warm to it. And I say that as somebody who is a huge fan

of the Todd Haynes film, which is absolutely about the problems of the way in which, you know, the barbieization of the real world has lethal consequences. I think a lot of people have talked about how funny Ryan Gosling is. And Ryan Gosling is really funny. And there's the secrets where and when you go and see it, the secrets where he is very brief, saying where he is talking to a doctor, and he's assuming that he can also become a doctor because he's a man. He's very, very funny. Because he's discovered the patriarchy

and the sequence in which men decide that they will, sit down and I'll play my guitar at you. The use of the word at is really great. But I think what's, it's easy to understand how good Margot Robbie is. Yes, Ryan Gosling is great. And I've seen a couple of reviews said, you know, Ryan Gosling still says,

no, he's very good. But the film works because Margot Robbie is absolutely on it in that role. And having the smarts to get on Greta Goewig, and obviously as you said, the script with Greta Goe, we can know about and back. I thought was meta in exactly the way that you want that kind of script to be meta.

I thought it was funny. I like, I enjoyed the songs. I mean, I've enjoyed the songs very much. I thought the design was absolutely terrific. I mean, you come out, you're retiners, everything's gone pink. There are loads of cinematic gags. There are loads of things about the Godfather and jokes about. And in that clip was a Matrix joke.

There's a Matrix joke. Actually, there's the red pill stuff. There's the thing about the Justice League director's cut. But the thing is, when you ask who's it for, it's not one of those movies that goes, oh, well, you know, I mean, it's one thing, a movie critic going, well, I, you know, I really like it because actually it's got all these really smart references throughout the Godfather and all that sort of stuff. Okay, fine. But I can imagine it playing to exactly the same people that like Barbie Swan Lake because it's, you know, because it's

fun. And it's, it's just on the right side of, of, you know, some of the humor, it just sides right, sides right up to the edge of what you can get away with and still be a kind of mainstream movie. I, hey, I was really pleasantly impressed and surprised. I laughed and I, and then, and you and I both came out, I think, with a springy nostril. With our archers lifted, I went out and bought some pink carpet for the house. Yeah, no, I saw the picture that you took of the Greta Gurry thing and with all the balloons and you said, where is this and somebody put its marks house. Yes, exactly right. So what was your feeling? I thought it was, I thought it was terrific. I did, you know, K. Canita is exactly the right,

is exactly the right thing. Yeah the right for us. Yeah. And if you have all kinds of problems for very good reasons about Barbie, go see the thumb. Yeah. And that's why I say that Mattel should absolutely love it. Because what they've done is they've sort of saved the film, they've sort of saved the image of Barbie for the next generation, which is a really smart thing to have pulled off. That's the ads in a minute, Mark. But first, it's time to step confidently and boldly

and with precision into our laughter lift. I regret that. Well, some bittersweet news from Shobu's North London. Do you remember for the purposes of this joke that I told you about our friends, whose daughter, who was three months pregnant at the time suddenly fell into a coma. Okay, well last week she woke up. My baby, my baby, where's my baby she cried when she woke up. Fear not, said the doc, you had twins.

A boy and a girl, they're both absolutely fine and your brother named them for you. My brother said the woman he doesn't have both or in the water the best of times. What did that idiot name them? Well said the woman he doesn't have both or in the water at the best of times. What did that idiot name them? Well said the doctor. The girl is named Denise. Oh well that's not too bad. What about the boy? He's called Deneffu. There was a really long setup for what was a very, very poor joke.

Not as bad as cousin Cecil. He's got two boys, four and six. Those are much worse names, very uninventive. Bad news about the dog mark, though. Still. It's well in the whole bag of scrabble tiles, and he's at the vet's now. Oh, no word yet.

Hey, we're supposed to come. It's often hymen. There you go. I'm just laughing at the one funny joke in the loftal if this week. Back after this, unless you're a Vanguardista, in which case we have just one question. I have cities but no houses. I have mountains but no trees.

I have water but no fish. What am I? I have no idea. We have to wait. Metro links and cross links are reminding everyone to be careful as Eglinton Cross Town LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert as trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals. Be careful along our tracks and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. be alert, be aware, and stay safe.

You're flying to meet with a new supplier to keep your business growing. And with the business platinum card from American Express, you can earn $820 in new value and more, which includes a $200 travel credit toward your flight. Now a boarding business class. which includes a $200 travel credit toward your flight. Now a boarding business class. American Express. Don't do business without it. Terms and conditions apply, visit mx.ca slash business platinum. You might have noticed that as well as Barbie, there is a new Chris Nolan film

available to go and see. Starring Killian Murphy, it is called Oppenheimer and here we go. Yes, so new film by Chris Vanolen, I mean just in case, you know, so Chris Vanolen, Memento, prestige, dark night trilogy, interstellar, Dunkirk, Tenet, I mean, a fairly spectacular run of films. This is nominally a bioopic of J. Rob Opanheimer played by Killian Murphy, who obviously has been in several Christmas films before. Opanheimer known as the father of the atomic bomb, whom history is recorded as being famously conflicted about his his most infamous creation. This is this is based on the, American Prometheus, which is his story. I think,

exactly what defines a bio-pick nowadays is kind of weird. It has become this thing about just last name, you know, Oppenheimer, Lincoln, whatever it is. Anyway, so again, if you don't know, and I think imagine most people do, he was in charge of the Manhattan Project, which was the development of the atomic bomb at Los Alamos, in which they basically built a scratch community to bring people together to make an atomic bomb during World War II whilst also keeping its secret. This it, we have a clip, but it's actually more of a promotional trailer, but it gives you a sense of the film here we go. We're in a race against the Nazis.

And I know what it means. If the Nazis ever born. They have a 12-month-head start. 18. How could you possibly know that? We've got one hope. All America's industrial-minded scientific innovation connected here. Secret laboratory. Keep everyone there until it's dark. All America's industrial-minded scientific innovation connected here. Secret laboratory.

Keep everyone there until it's dark. Let's go recruit some scientists. Build a town, build it fast. We're doing as scientists bring their families, we'll never get the best. Why would we go to the middle of nowhere for who knows how long? Why? Why? How about because this is the most important thing that ever happened in the history of the world? Good to know Jason Bourney's also in on the case. Yes, it is. Absolutely. Just in case. Well, that thing about let's go recruit some scientists. It's a big leap on from Bruce Willis in on again and saying let's go recruit some scientists. It's a big leap on from Bruce Willis in

Armageddon saying let's go drill some holes, isn't it? So after the war, Lewis Strauss offered Oppenheimer a job as director of the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton and then he chaired the advisory because of the Atomic Energy Committee and brought up an Oppenheimer. This is all history. This isn't possible, isn't because the film is told by Chris Nolan in a non-linear way. No, yes. Really. He lobbied for control of nuclear power, having been basically the father of the bomb. He immediately became lobbying for control of it. He opposed the expression of the H-bomb on the grounds that it would just promote the arms race. In the 1950s, 1954, his Q security clearance, high security clearance was in danger. He was subject to hearings and investigations about his alleged communist sympathies from

before and his opposition to the arms race. Those hearings instigated by Strauss who had taken against him and set the FBI on him. And then in 58, Eisenhower offers Strauss, the Secretary of Commerce, and that then has to go to a Senate hearing. So what the film does is it juggles several time frames that they are. The early life in academia, Oppenheimer's recruitment by Lesley Groves, who we just saw there, played by Matt Damon, who was the person who gets him in to head up the Manhattan Project, the development of the bomb leading up to the Trinity test, and then, of course, to actual use of it, Hiroshima

and Nagasaki. Then 1954, the atomic and G-Committee personnel security board hearings in which Oppenheimer is basically accused of not being a loyal citizen. And then the Senate hearings to confirm Strauss played by Robert Downey, Jr. and the opposition to his appointment, partly by scientists, who thought that Oppenheimer had been treated badly.

So there's a wide smogest board of stuff going on in there, even as I was just saying that, it's going to I'm realizing that that trailer doesn't really even begin to tell us. No. And we also get glimpses of his personal life, his relationships with Jean Tatloch, played by Florence Pue, and Kitty Oppenheimer played by Emily Blunt,

and there is an enigmatic encounter with Albert Einstein played by Tom Conti. The cast also includes Matthew Modine, Rami Malik, Josh Hartnett, Kenneth Branagh, Benny Saf, the Gary Oldman, Uncle Tom Cobley, and all. So the first thing to say about it is that Kylian Murphy is brilliant. If Kylian Murphy doesn't get oscarominated, I will eat my hat. But your hat is already in trouble.

My hat is already in trouble. This is the Verna Herzog Eats issue. It is a brilliant performance. And the reason it's brilliant is because, do you remember that there was a photograph taken of Killian Murphy when you and I interviewed him about inception and it was taken outside one of the broadcast buildings,

yes, and it looked like we were a couple and he was our child because he's, yeah, I thought he's with his two favorite uncles. Two favorite uncles, right? Okay, because he is a, you know, he's, yeah, I thought he's with his two favorite uncles. Two favorite uncles, right? Yes. Because he is a, you know, he's diminutive. And then in that scene in which you see with Matt Damon, who's all, you know, kind of big and bullish in military, the thing is that obviously the central thing

with Oppenheimer apart from just the development of the bomb is the stuff that's going on with Oppenheimer himself. And in his face, which bear in mind, this is shot in IMAX cameras, big, big close-ups on faces, in his face, where the story plays out, you see ambition, you see conflict, you see devotion, you see deception, you see deceit, you see disappointment.

All of those things happen on Killian Murphy's face. And I think his role is brilliant. My favorite scenes in the film are actually between him and Damon because they're chalk and cheese characters. And in that tension between what the military wants and what the scientific community wants, there is agreement, there is also disagreement. You know what, you get one searching, one demanding,

one exploring, one exploiting, and not necessarily always the way you think. Obviously, also the film looks great. Hoi Van Hoi, Tamera, has shot it in a way which is using the iMac's format to do close, to do intimate, to do not just, because it's actually for a film that's about the invention of the atomic bomb,

the spectacle is kind of limited. There's a lot of people talking in rooms. There's an awful lot of that. And then there's this thing about going from black and white to color, which is sort of subjective, objective, sort of one perspective, you know, one character with another character.

Sometimes it seems like it can be style for the sake of style. I'm not entirely sure about how that works, but you kind of, you know, it looks good, and the sound design is fantastic. There is this sort of repetitive thing about the feet stamping on the floor as a plow, which then matches into the sound of a rumble and the sound of the earth kind of being almost knocked off its axis by what's happening. There's also quite complex discussions, because after discussions of why would you drop

the bomb in the first place, because the war is at its end, Germany, this is, okay, why would you do it? And then more importantly, why would you do it twice? And the other theory is, you do it once, and then you do it twice to demonstrate that you can do it twice. And there's the whole stuff about, you know, how Nagasaki was chosen and then the moral implications of that. And that's then, you know, Oppenheim immediately becoming somebody who believes that what you have to do is be open about all your scientific exploration, but also you have to limit what's going on. Otherwise, you'll get proliferation of arms, races, and unleash great horror upon the world. You famously went to the president and said, I have blood on my hands, and the president

gave me very, very short shrift. So what you get is the thing which is famously quoted, you know, I've become Death Destroyer of Worlds. I think what you don't get, and I think what I expected was the sort of, the shock of having done it, having created the atomic weapon, which is then so monstrous, there is no other word, whether you, you know, it's just so monstrous. There is no other word, whether you, you know, it's just so monstrous. The kind of,

the, how that feels internally, actually, because what the film does is it becomes more interested in how he is treated. After the bomb, it's really more interested in how he is blacklisted and how the forces that were once aligned with him turn against him. And it becomes quite a sort of dense and at times complicated. And I'll be honest, at times confusing intercutting of hearings, one hearing taking place in a small room, one hearing taking place in a big Senate auditorium. But there's a lot of stuff to grapple with. There's a lot of history, and as you know, with Nolan,

the way you would research this is that you read every single book and you do all of that. So I think it is a really, really good film. I don't know that it emotionally impacted on me as much as I wanted it to. And I have often found that with, no, I mean, like interstellar is very, very emotional, but you know, you can pick holes in the plot, but it is a very, very emotional thump to it. And I think Oppenheimer is really good and really impressive. It is a three hour film, which is it's quite hard to ask for an audience

because I said there is a lot of people talking in rooms. It is not a lot of action and explosion. And when you, when things happen, it's fleeting and quite often it's represented by sound rather than visuals. It is a character study, political history, really, and it's the weight of it rests on Killian Murphy's face. I was of course supposed to see it, but because of circumstances beyond our control, beyond anyone's control, I have not been and I'm not over it like you're not over your exam. I do want you sick because I want to know what you think. Okay, I will

try and see it by the time we meet again. Okay. Right, what's on this time we have some listeners correspondent send yours by the way to CorrespondenceCoverman.com. Here we go. Hello fellas, Claire here, film programmer of extra Phoenix, Exeter's only independent cinema. This August we welcome back Exeter's biggest and best outdoor cinema, Big Screen in the Park in Northern Hey Gardens, from the 9th to the 13th of August, with films including ET, Banshee's Divina Sharon, everything everywhere all at once and dirty dancing. Tickets from 5 Bans.

Claire promoting the Exterfenix's exciting outdoor cinema program this August said your 22nd audio trailer and then we'll Critique it Wherever you are in the world correspondence of carbonomer dot com. That's it for the end of take one by the way Did you know about the signed water bottles? They're available now. Yes in the store and we ship to America Wow and Australia Wow presumably New Zealand. Everywhere. Pretty much. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production, the team with Lily Hamley, Zaki Peltz, Gully Tikell, Bethy Perkin.

She's not Bethy Perkin now, I don't know why. I don't know, Beth Perkin. Get well soon. Mickey Movies, Hannah Tool, but Simon E. Pooley, Mark Woodens, your film of the week. Oppy, Barb and Hymus, see him both. Absolutely. Well, take us to take two, which has also

landed adjacent to this one. Take three with your Wednesday. Thank you so much.