Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Has PRACTICAL MAGIC 2 got Mark spellbound? + NICOLAS WINDING REFN

Episode Date: September 10, 2026

The Take is now on Patreon: www.patreon.com/kermodeandmayo    Become a Vanguardista or an Ultra Vanguardista to get video episodes of Take Two every week, plus member-only chat rooms, polls and submissions to influence the show, behind-the-scenes photos and videos, the monthly Redactor’s Roundup newsletter, and access to a new fortnightly LIVE show - a raucous, unfiltered lunchtime special with the Good Doctors, new features, and live chat so you can heckle, vote, and have your questions read out in real time.    On this week's Take, Simon and Mark are back in the booth and diving into a packed slate of new releases. From the spellbinding return of Practical Magic 2 to the vertigo-inducing thrills of Fall 2, they weigh up the latest sequels hoping to recapture cinematic lightning in a bottle. There's also a look at the tense wartime-weather-system drama Pressure and jazz biopic Everybody Digs Bill Evans, exploring the life and legacy of one of the genre’s most influential musicians and featuring last week’s guest Bill Pullman.     Plus, director Nicolas Winding Refn joins Simon for a conversation about coming back from the dead (for real), and Her Private Hell—his first film in a decade, out on September 25th. Keep your eyes peeled for Mark’s review then too.     Along the way there's the usual mix of film news, recommendations, correspondence, and of course the Laughter Lift. Time to settle in, press play, and enjoy another trip to the cinema with Mark and Simon.     You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo.    A Sony Music Entertainment production.        Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts      To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail]    EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee!    Our Christmas Movie Spectacular is back! It’s in Bristol this year on Sunday 6th December. Don’t miss it!     Here’s the link for tickets:  https://www.fane.co.uk/kermode-and-mayo   Timecodes:  00:00:00 Introduction 00:13:23 Pressure review  00:23:25 Box Office Top Ten  00:35:21 Nicholas Winding Refn interview  00:49:01 Everybody Digs Bill Evans  00:59:05 Laughter Lift  01:01:31 Fall 2  01:12:01 Practical Magic 2  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Where some see heroes and others see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com. Some evil thing happened here. Three people die in a quiet suburb in Mississauga, Canada. It's not a coincidence. One after the other.

in the same house. Is this bad luck, or something more sinister? The worst investigative mess I've ever encountered. A long simmering what took you so fucking long to get here. From Sony Music Entertainment, this is What Happened to the Harrisons. I'm Amy Dempsey Raven. What Happened to the Harrisons is available now on the binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcasts to see.

start listening today. Subscribers to the binge can listen to all episodes, all at once, ad-free. Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguard Easter and get an extra episode every Thursday, including bonus reviews. Extra viewing suggestions. Viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas. Plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in questions, shmestians. You can get all that extra stuff via Apple Podcasts or head to extra takes.com

for non-fruit-related devices. There's never been a better time to become a vanguard Easter. Free offer, now available, wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a vanguard Easter, we salute you. Well, I know this is old news by the time everybody hears this. Hello. Hi.

But made me laugh. Go on. Quote, inspired by the bravery and patriotism of Apple and Google, we are changing the name of South Park to South America. According to Matt Stone and Trey Parker, I mean, that's great. In one sentence, you have to... It's a very good thing.

That's going to be quite fun, isn't it? Because Paramount Plus, which is where they are, is of course, it's like they're doing everything that they possibly can to be really, really difficult, which is a splendid thing. They're like the naughty boys in class who can't be expelled. Because their parents pay all the school fee. That's right.

Yes, because their parents built a gym. Yeah, that's right. So all the teachers know that you can't get rid of these annoying kids because they're too important for the future. It's right. Your money stream relies on them staying on side. Anyway, that was... So, well, I've never been a South Park fan particularly,

but I just thought maybe I'm going to start watching it now. Maybe everyone should subscribe to Paramount Plus. although the money, I won't mind. Speaking of social media, which I know you're desperate to talk about. Okay, I'm desperate to talk about social media, Simon. I saw a post this morning. It was probably on threads, I think.

I don't know if you thread, really, but anyway. I'm on threads. I often forget to... I mean, it's difficult to know how it all works. But anyway, it's a person called Max who posted this morning a friend of mine got a tattoo on their arm that says, quote, comparison is the thief of joy.

And it really inspired me. So I got the same tattoo, but mine's bigger and much nicer than his. Hey, go. Okay. I mean, that's almost good enough for the laughter lift. I thought of passing it on and submitting it, you know, to go before the joke council. But I thought, no, I'm just going to use him. That's very good.

That's very good. UDI or whatever it was. Is everything okay? Just checking. Yeah, no, I'm good. You know what? After recording this show, I am a running to Newkey Airport,

which I mean, I'm assuming that actually flights are going to be happening because obviously we're recording this on Wednesday morning and the last time I listened. Are you heading this time? I'm heading to Dublin because this is the gang of three mini tour of Ireland. Oh, yes.

So it's Thursday night we're in Galway. It makes no geographical sense at all. Because we start in Galway on Thursday. Then we go to Belfast Friday. And then we come back to Kill Kenny on Saturday. And I was doing an interview with Radio Ulster. And the guy said, you know, whoever booked that tour, you should fire them. I said, that was us.

Yeah. Yeah, the tour manager got that slightly wrong. Exactly. So, yeah, gang of three in the house. Are we still on the road? Are we nearly there? The collective age in the van is 184. That's quite fun.

Quite good to still be doing that. And of course, don't forget to plug, particularly when you're in Belfast, my appearance at the International Arts Festival. Here's my news. Here's my news. So I was doing... Are you coming? Well, actually, I might do because I was doing the Radio Ulster show and the gentleman with whom I did it is the gentleman who is going to be interviewing you. Oh, okay.

Yeah. And I said, well, of course, you're really looking forward to it, aren't you? said, what? And I said, you know, the biggest event of the year. And he said, remind me. And I said, Simon Mayo, 40 years of broadcasting. Oh, yes, of course. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. That doesn't, that doesn't fill me with confidence, does it? No, he is looking forward. He basically forgotten. We were talking about something. He's a big fan, Simon. He's a big fan. And I kind of set him up. Here are the details of Simon Mayo in Belfast. Belfast Arts Festival welcomes us. Oh, there's a A big smiling picture of you. Welcome Simon Mayo to Queens Film Theatre for a career retrospective

celebrating more than four decades, not just four decades, hosted by broadcaster, broadcast of Ralph McLean, who I've got to tell you, he's a really, really top guy. I did two hours of radio with him, in which I got to program all the music, and he's fantastic. He really knows his music, and he's really interesting, and he's a big fan. It sounds like a combination of Ralph McTell and Don McLean. Yeah, and that's pretty much in terms of his, I mean, his musical knowledge is vast, and all that stuff. Anyway, so he is doing it. The evening features archive clips, conversation, audience Q&A, and a book signing opportunity. That's the 24th of October Belfast International Arts Festival at the Queens Films at the QFT, which is an absolutely brilliant.

So you've got a brilliant venue, you've got a brilliant host, it's going to be a brilliant night, and there is going to be a book signing opportunity. Okay. And the best thing, as we said last week, six o'clock means that you can come along and then still have an evening out somewhere. I mean, that's great. If you start at 6 o'clock and it's only 90 minutes long, you'd be finished by 7.30. You'd be in Pizza Express by 745. Incidentally, I've just noticed further to this in the description of your conversation.

Yes. Describing your... Mayo has been a familiar voice to generations of listeners. His much love Radio One shows of the 80s and 90s helped define an era of broadcasting. And then he went on to become known for his acclaimed film conversations with Mark Kermode. Okay, well... And then you... say, that's great. Remind me of when the gang of three dates are. And I go, thank you, Simon.

Galway, Thursday, Belfast, Friday, Kilkenny, Saturday. So later, well, you know, sort of now, what are we talking about? Which films? Well, in a packed show this week, we have reviews of Practical Magic 2, which is the sequel to Practical Magic, which came out quite a long time ago. Pressure, which is the latest D-Day film. Fall 2, sequel obviously to Fall. one, although it was just full. And everybody digs Bill Evans. If you haven't yet heard the brilliant interview that Simon did with Bill Pullman, that was on last week's show.

This week, our special guest is... Well, who do you think it is? Well, I know who it is. It's written on the script. Yeah, but how would you say it? Nick, it's Nick. Well, I always thought he was Nick winding, Reffen, but you found a video of him saying his name,

which actually sounds much more like... Yeah, well, the... Nick winning, Reffin? We've got, yes, I'm slightly confused because Danish fam say it's Nick Vending Reffin. He's got a new movie on the way, which is called Her Private Hell. And so we're talking to him about that. And in Take 2. There's a big documentary release.

Oasis, don't look back in anger. Now, you may have heard of Oasis, Simon, because you were the top pop voice of a generation when they were at top of most of their pop. Was that? it was around it was that was your sort of yeah yeah yes so not when I was on breakfast but when I was doing

morning morning yeah in fact when you and I were working together at Radio One when I would come in on a Friday we do all the films in four minutes and all the videos in four minutes that's right and and of which my favourite Oasis moment was Noel coming in and he he sang don't look back in anger as a solo performance

and then at the end I think we made reference to the fact that it's probably available at Camden market already. Right now. On a cassette. Anyway, okay, so an oasis chat. And you get, take two and free by heading to our

Patreon page. Just search Kermen of O. Patreon. And you'll find everything that you could possibly need. Greg Z in New Jersey. Okay, so it's probably Greg Z. Z. And New Jersey. Dina Stromo and Valley Forge.

As a great supporter of your fine program for many years, I've enjoyed the light and shade. you both provide vis-a-vis the art of cinema. I particularly appreciate the work of The Good Doctor in championing the horror genre, as well as advocating for the revitalisation of such important films as Ken Russell's The Devils and for his disdain of the phrase elevated horror.

Thank you. However... I knew there was a butt coming. In last week's iteration, the doctor at one juncture muttered under his breath, horror always means. something. Whilst I agree with you in 98% of all cases, which I think is pretty much enough, I must respectfully say that movies like the Terrifier series, Hostel and its ilk, and indeed

a Serbian film, surely offer nothing in the way of subtext, wit, or satire. They are simply rubbish in their collective entirety, and I'll not be told otherwise. In the case of the cesspool of celluloid that calls itself a Serbian film, it's the only film I can think of that I forbade my teenage daughter from watching simply because something tries to be about something doesn't mean it is. If any of the films I mentioned are about anything other than mimicking the experience of watching an autopsy video, then I'll gladly admit that President Caligulard is likewise about truth, justice in the American way. Colligulard, I haven't heard before. That is fantastic. And it's a hyphen, so that's why I

pause, President Colligulard. The thing is, he wouldn't get that, though, would he? No, he wouldn't. Absolutely would not get that. May I respond? Greg Z in New Jersey, yes. Greg, thank you. May I respond very briefly? Read this to the re-hostile in the Torchpour movies.

I felt the same as you did, although I then had a conversation with Kim Newman, who I, to whom I defer on all things to do with horror. And Kim had said, look, I don't like these movies, but they are very popular, and they are about something. And I would suggest that actually it is worth reading Kim on those films, because I sort of looked at them in a... I still don't like them,

but I looked at them in a slightly different light after reading him. As far as Serbian film is concerned, the thing with Serbian film is that it pretends to be about something. I mean, it pretends to be a political metaphor. It isn't. It is a piece of trash. But it absolutely pretends to be about something to have this whole kind of great weighty undertow.

And I, again, I... having sort of known about the film and its progress and, you know, how it got released, I didn't get released. I know there are people who pointed it and go, no, no, no, it's very, very serious and this is what it's about. I know that that's the cloak under which it was, but if there is any message in Serbian film, it is absolutely lost under the welter of Dros. I would also say the uncut version of Serbian film, I think is preferable to the cut version because the uncut version is just stupid.

And the cut version actually, in a weird way, makes the film seem more serious. When you see the uncut version, you go, okay, fine, you're just taking the Mick now. Can I, okay, maybe this is a stupid question. Why does it have to be about something? Why can't it just be there for entertainment? Yes, and they go.

You walk out and okay, fine, I had a pizza. I've forgotten about it already. Why can't it just be that? That would be fine, except that what happens in Serbian film is not entertaining. and so therefore it has to be justified by, oh, it's about something. No, it isn't. But why couldn't most horror films not be about anything other than just scaring people and giving them a good time?

Being scared is about something. And there is certainly, there are the sort of roller coaster things, you know, the movies that are jumps game movies and all the rest of it. They are still in order to work about something. I mean, the thing may be something really, really simple, like, you know, closed spaces. I mean, so for example, today we're going to review fall two. What is fall two about? It's about being on a precipitous height in danger of falling is quite scary if you're me.

That's what it's about. Okay. So is this similar to the kind of Marxist idea that everything is political? Yes. It is exactly that. Famously, things like I remember having this argument about modern romance, right? Remember I, I, I, I, I, I, Musi. Yes.

And they also had a hit called Best Years of Our Lives of Our Lives. Now, it's fairly safe to say that in the mid-80s, for a lot of people, it wasn't the best years of their lives. And so by saying it's the best years of their lives, that was a political record, although modern romance aren't really at the cutting edge of anything, particularly, although they made some entertaining records. So everything is political and everything is about something. Is that what you're saying? Yes, exactly. But horror in particular, because it is a genre of metaphors, is quite often about things that are quite profound. like it is about matters of life and death,

but it can also just be about, ugh, look at this. Fine, I kind of thought that. So let's talk about a movie, and then you'll tell us what it's actually about. Pressure. Yes. It's about D-Day.

Oh, right, there you go. So, yeah, there we go. And moving on it. So, look, we've seen many screen renderings of D-Day. We've seen it from the point of view of the gliders of Pegasus's Bridge in Longer. longest day. We've seen the American soldiers landing on the beaches in Saving Private Ryan. We've seen there was that Eisenhower thing, wasn't there Ike countdown to D-Day? And, of course,

from the point of view of Churchill in Churchill. But I know what you're saying, Simon, is that's fine. But what we really need is D-Day to be seen from the point of view of meteorologists. Excellent. This is exactly what we need. Because the weather and weather forecasting was incredibly important. Was absolutely central. Weirdly enough, when I was in the sixth form or something. I did a history project, and I did my history project on D-Day, and weirdly enough, a lot of it was about the weather. So, weather-based D-Day film starring Andrew Scott as meteorologist James Stagg, who predicts that the conditions on the original date for D-Day will be treacherousous,

the originally planned D-Day, storms, 10-foot waves. This, despite the claims of the American weather-wis Irving Crick, played by Chris Messina, who insists, no, no, no, it's all going to be sunshine and light. And he is a gout. Barriless figure. His predictions are based on charts from previous years. Look, in previous years, this is what's happened. This is going to happen again. Stag is the opposite for him. It's all to do with statistics. I want statistics. I want data. And he's kind of reserved and uptight to the two are chalk and cheese. And their findings are completely at loggerheads, leaving Brendan Fraser's Eisenhower to have to choose who to trust. Here is a clip.

Fate of the war hinges on this. All the pieces of the jigsaw are in place. There's only One imponderable that remains. I need a forecast. I'm, yes, I'm concerned that what you're asking me is scientifically impossible, sir. Long-term forecasting is really only ever educated guesswork. Monday is not long-term for Christa. Does Monday sound like long-term? Do you at Stammer-Speak?

No, it certainly does not, sir. Well, this is Northern Europe, sir. Anything over 24 hours is considered long-term, meteorologically speaking. So it all comes down to Georgia the Jungle to decide. Good heavens. Exactly. Georgia of the Jungle is absolutely in charge. Only people who of a certain age would understand why that was a joke.

So other key plays you heard Kerry Condon in there who plays Kay Somersby, who is Eisenhower's private secretary and confidante. There's Damien Lewis as Montgomery. There is Con O'Neill as Air Chief Marshalls, Trafford, Lee Mallory. And I mean, it's a very, very good car. And then there is, Thames in Tupolski as Liz Stag, who is the pregnant wife of our meteorologist hero, with whom he has no contact, because once he's pulled in to come and do this, that's it. And despite the fact that he knows at one point that the hospital that she was going to has been bombed,

he's completely out of contact. So the film is directed by Australian filmmaker Anthony Maras, who directed the 2018 real-life thriller Hotel Mumbai, and co-wrote the script for this with David Hague from whose 2014 play it is adapted. Now, I hadn't seen the 2014 play, but very well received. And of course, the title pressure has a dual meaning. On the one hand, it's pressure. We have to make a decision about when to go on D-Day. That's the pressure.

There is so much at risk. The other thing, of course, is meteorological pressure, because in the end, meteorological conditions will define whether or not they can go and whether or not the mission will be successful. So I think Andrew Scott is terrific in the lead. His performance is all about restraint. It's all about what he doesn't do. When he gets the news of the hospital being bombed,

there is a brilliant scene of him barely reacting, but you can see that inside there is this massive turmoil. When he's being shouted down by over-eager generals, who's saying, we have to go, we have to go now, we haven't got any choice, this is when we have to do it. And he's sort of just standing. And you can see that inside he's broiling, but outside he's barely moving.

And the restraint of that performance is starkly contrasted with the kind of grandstanding of those around him, with all the military leaders who are all desperate to move. The only other person who has the same kind of sense of internalized anguish and duality is Kerry Connors' character. And I have to say, I think she's superb. She is really brilliant as the person who is quietly holding everything together behind the scenes Her presence is variously efficient, mentoring, maternal, calming, stern. But most importantly, sort of all seeing, you get the sense that of everyone in the drama,

she's the only one who can actually see everything, you know, to take a step back and see what's really going on. And it's kind of interesting because the Eisenhower character is haunted by visions of a catastrophic. training exercise, which resulted in a pulling loss, and therefore is uncertain of how to move. And she is aware of this, and she's also aware of what's happening to Andrew Scott's character internally, but she is still able to somehow keep her on the ball. I mean, it's a very well-made drama, and it is a different angle on the story. Now, obviously, having seen it and enjoyed it, I then did the usual thing, which is go and look up the historical accuracy. And it turns out there's a bunch of things that people are getting agitated about.

Apparently, the Norwegian Sphere Petterson was the guy who actually, in the end, had D-Day postponed. It was his weather forecast that foresaw the gap in the storm that enabled it to go when it did. And as for Stagg, he was coordinating between three independent teams. And so there has apparently, apparently in Norway, their noses have been put quite out of joint by. There are also other, yeah, exactly. There are also other things to do with the personal story in which events have been moved around for dramatic effect. And I have to say that when I was watching it, I thought, I doubt that actually happened like that. I'm sure that.

But here's the thing. You know, it is a film, which is a film. And it is always the case with those war dramas, historical dramas, that there are going to be liberties taken. and despite the fact that he says at the beginning of true story, you know that when we come to dramatizing anything, things are going to be moved and emphasis is going to be changed for dramatic effect. It's up to you, how bothered you are about that.

I have to say that I found myself gripped because I thought the characters worked well. I thought Andrew Scott's performance was really terrific. I thought Kerry Condon was really terrific. And I, as I said, from a very early age when I was a sick former, and I did my project on D-Day, and it was all about the weather. I think Andrew Scott is on that list of actors who I would see in anything. Yeah.

Whether it's a small budget or a big budget, whatever it is, he's sort of capable of anything, really. I do think he's a genius. Yes, and I think it's one of those things. The hardest thing to do is to play repressed, to play internalized. It's very easy to grandstand. It's much harder. It's much harder to stand still, you know.

What's the Brian Cox? Brian Cox said that he was told by, Lindsay Anderson wants. Don't just do something, stand there. That's, that's, yeah, that's great. That sounds, yeah, that sounds as though that's the kind of advice that you would

pass on. If particularly, so if Brian Cox says that, then that is, then that's definitely true, via Lindsay Anderson. Yeah. If you see pressure,

we would love to know what you think about at correspondence at kodemeyer.com. Still to come after the break, if indeed you're going to have a break, because if, you know, you might not have any break, but if you do have a break, Mark will be doing the box office top ten, I think, that's what we'll be doing. Mark will be reviewing everybody digs Bill Evans, also full two practical magic too, and our special guest is Nicholas Vinding Winding Refn. It's one of those. Don't forget, there are only a few tickets left for our big Christmas special this year, which is at the Bristol

Beacon on December the 6th. You can get VIP tickets with the best seats in the house. Wow. Plus a 30-minute post-show meet-and-grreet where you can tell Mark in person how to pronounce Nicholas Vending Refan. And also what's wrong. He said Winding. He said Winding, Simon. He didn't say Vending.

He definitely said Winding. I'm going to have to ask him about that because... Yes, ask him. Danish fam say the Ws as a V. Anyway. And you can also explain to Mark why he's still wrong about Wally Fister's transcendence. There's so many opportunities to say, hey, have a chat. I bet you the redactor wrote that line.

You're absolutely right. Absolutely right. I mean, he's also completely correct. Also, there are some seats available in the upper tier from where you can just shout at Mark, why he's wrong about transcendence for free. Well, not for free. So it's either the upper tier

where you don't get the meet and greet or the 30 minute post show, fabulous. Do you think you get uppity in the upper tier? You probably will if you can't see or hear anything, but I'm sure that's not the case because it's the Bristol Beacon and everything will be great. It'll be fab. In Toronto, every arrival is a statement,

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Is this bad luck or something more sinister? The worst investigative mess I've ever encountered. A long simmering what took you so fucking long to get here. From Sony Music Entertainment, this is What Happened to the Harrisons. I'm Amy Dempsey Raven. What Happened to the Harrisons is available now on the binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcasts to start. listening today.

Subscribers to the binge can listen to all episodes, all at once, ad free. So here we go with the box office top 10 at number 14, Leviticus. Oddly familiar nostalgia corresponds with us. Thanks, oddly familiar. I just watched Leviticus, and it's a perfect example of the dual self trope that pops up in so many low-budget thrillers. The way the film turns each boy into the other's ideal. is a neat echo of the 1970s

Italian Jallo, the fearless vampire killers, where the monster is literally the reflection you're afraid of. It's funny how the script flips the script on the usual evil twin narrative, giving us a psychological horror that feels both fresh and oddly nostalgic. Love the type pacing and the way the soundtrack keeps the tension humming.

Great pick for anyone who loves a good mind-bender. You're right, that is a very smart comparison, yeah. Well done. Well done. Also, Mr. Omer's oddly familiar nostalgia, how would you greet, if they came to the meet and greet, would they be oddly and then... Welcomeed with open arms, I think.

Do you think? Okay. Number 10 is Paul Patrol, the Dino movie. Yeah, well, there it is. There what is? Well, I'm going to say the same thing that I say about it every week, because I haven't seen this. It's the other dinosaur movie.

the week that it came out was there was seven films out and I saw six of them and I haven't seen this and I haven't caught up with it five weeks ago and it's just saying five weeks a month

yeah lots of films coming out Simon lots of stuff happening number nine number three in America is Coyote versus Acme the film they didn't want you to see the film they wanted to write off

as a tax loss and what a bad thing that was because it's actually a terrific film and it's very funny and very smart and very sharp And I think it's great that it finally got released because it was well worth waiting for. Number eight here, number 10 over there is the dog stars.

Which is, to me, it felt like the kind of film that Ridley Scott made because he wanted to make the BGs movie and it fell down and he had a couple of months to spare so he thought, I'll do that. He is unbelievably productive. It is a very incidental Ridley Scott film. I think we have seen quite enough of the, post-apocalyptic world movies

that all kind of have started to look a little bit the same. It's fine. There are individual sequences in it that are good, but this is only its second week of release. It'll be out of the top ten next week. Number seven is the death of Robin Hood. Courtney says, Dear Fryer and Tuck,

while in Canada this summer, I saw the death of Robin Hood. My partner, father and I, went in without any context as the advertising for the film was practically non-executive. which I now appreciate his problem because they didn't know how to market it. Within a few minutes, my father lent over to us and whispered, we came to see the right movie, and we absolutely had. Hugh Jackman was brilliant playing Robin with a constant hum of mostly restrained violence

just beneath the surface. Not in the first half hour. The highest compliment I can give is that I quickly forgot it was him. The questions raised around morality, redemption and justice have lingered, and I find myself occasionally bringing them out and turning them over, there's no right answer. I also loved the flipping of the structure. Michael Sarnowski, who was on the show,

commented in your interview that he wanted us and Robin to feel like we'd stepped into a different film and I felt it was accomplished. But with enough skill that I was never quite sure which decision a character would make because either path felt authentic. I was disappointed to see the reviews in Canada were mixed. And I can't help but feel this is down to poor advertising

and a misunderstanding of what the film was. Those expecting two hours of helmet-crunching action would probably come out feeling short-changed by all the, quote, boring talking. Personally, though I'm thrilled, it's now being released here. We are absolutely going to see it in the cinema again. I'm looking forward to finally hearing what Mark thinks. So obviously, he's going to catch up. Down with those who must take niceness for weakness, and up with resilient Canadians, says Courtney.

Yes, elbows up, I believe, is the expression. So I think Courtney might be onto something there as to, maybe it was a difficult film to advertise because they weren't quite sure how to do that. Yeah, I'm sure it is a difficult film to advertise. I also would like to add that when Courtney says, see again in the cinema, if you want to see this, you need to see it in the cinema. It needs to be seen in a darkened auditorium because so much of that first act, the bloodthirsty helmet crunching first act,

is it's filmed amidst this unbelievable murk, darkness, mist, mud, blood, grime. And you need to be in an auditorium to actually appreciate what's going on. The film has stopped with me. The accents are a problem, I think, and obviously that's less of a problem if your ear isn't particularly attuned to them. But there are elements of it have really stayed with me. And it is true that the minute you get onto the island and Jody Comer arrives, it becomes a different film and that is exactly what Michael Sonofsky. Incidentally, wasn't Michael Sonofsky a terrific interviewee. He was.

He was good. Smart, eloquent, knew exactly what he was doing. I think he knows. I think he has made exactly the film that he set out to make. The issue is that that is a hard film to sell to the public. But it is an interesting movie with some... And the Dirtle Grime, where they roll and cake themselves is, as it turns out, in Northern Ireland. in Ireland, yeah, yeah.

They filmed it. And I think that's where Mark is going to be playing very, very shortly with his rocking band. You know, when you do your talk, shall we both go to the place where they filmed the death of Robin Hood and roll around in the mud and murk? Well, I was with you up until that last bit of the sentence. Sean in Winteringham. I went to a fairly full screening of the death of Robin Hood at my local Odion on Sunday. Enjoyed it very much. The first act reminded me somewhat of very very.

Al-Halla Rising and the later acts of the Green Knight. I wasn't concerned by the initial darkness or the slightly off-kiltre accents. I mean, certainly if you're in the cinema, Sean, you're going to be fine. It's just watching at home is a problem. My enjoyment was only slightly spoiled by the couple who sat next to me, who I suspect had not watched the trailer for the film or read anything about it before attending. Excuse me.

There were a fair number of, what's he doing that for? Who's that? There must be some reason he's doing this. Between the two of them. And when the particular character revealed his particular name, one asked the other, what's he got to do with Robin Hood? Which actually, because we know, reveals that they're pretty thick, these people who are sitting next to you,

because he's very much part of the legend of Robin Hood. Very much. It did make me smile, though. When following them out, I heard him say to her, as the worst film I've ever seen, it's not Robin Hood if Frya Tuck doesn't appear. So, okay. So I think, and Sean says, anyway, up with films that take risks and down with the normal stuff,

if you want to see a Robin Hood that absolutely has Frya Tuck as a key character or any character, do not go and see the death of Robin Hood. I don't think it's a spoiler to say, I don't think he's not in it, is he? No, he's not. Also, I love that, I love that thing, and I've referred to this many times, that people will go and see a film like that and come back, go. That's the worst film I ever saw. and I always feel like going, come to my house, I will show you the worst film you ever saw.

And what would you put on first? Oversexed Rugsuckers from Mars. That sounds quite an entertaining evening, actually. It really isn't. Number six here is minions and monsters. Just fabulous. And it's so great that it's still there. You know, it's held its audience.

It's the most Siniliterate release around. It's just wonderful. I love it. It's the Darker. side of the moon of the top ten because it's been hanging around for a lot longer than anything else. At the end of Oak Street is at number five. The other dinosaur movie, and which I enjoy it. I mean, it's nonsense. It's absolute nonsense. And Ewan McGregor appears to be in a different film to Juan Hathaway, but it's monster, it's dinosaurs in suburbia. And

hello to Sanjeeve. Turns out everyone had a bow and arrow. And I beg Toy Story 5's pardon. It turns out to be the dark side of the moon. It's been. It turns out to be the dark side of the moon. there for 12 weeks. Toy Story 5 is number four here, number 15 in America. Yeah, Toy Story 5 has done terrifically well. As you know, I wasn't particularly impressed by it, but we have had a lot of emails from people who have found it moving and have been engaged by it in a way that I wasn't. I wish that I was, but I can't, you know, who was it who said, Father, I cannot lie. Who was it who chopped down the tree? Would that it were so simple? Would that it were so simple? Three here, six there, insidious.

Out of the further... And I still haven't been to see it. Number two here, number two, there is The Odyssey, about which we've probably spoken. I was Bill Carpott. And number one here, and there is Spider-Man brand-new day. So both those films doing amazing business. Yeah, and isn't it great,

there are two movies that are absolutely dragging people into the cinemas, and both of them are pretty decent. both of them are enjoyable. Both of them have got lots to be said about them, and they are just people are still turning up in droves. It's great. The whole stuff about, oh, this is just coming, the famous story of young, this is from the redacted,

of young George Washington confessing, I cannot tell a lie after chopping down a cherry tree, is a complete fabrication, is it? Wow, did he actually go, no, dad, it wasn't me. No, there's nothing to sue in me at all. He was an apple tree or something like that. Anyway, correspondence at cerminamadmo.com, There's more of this stuff in the Overflow Carpac in Take 2.

Search for us on Patreon to get that and this and all the other stuff completely ad-free. On the way, it's our special guest, Nicholas Winding Refn. After this. Now, I guest today is Danish writer, director and producer Nicholas Winding Refant, whose work is... Well, how would you characterize his work? Well, strangely enough, we've already had a reference to one of his film. Somebody mentioned Valhalla Rising. I mean, he started out making kind of very tough,

gritty films like the Puscher movies. But more recently, they've been like the incredible stylization of things like neon demon drive, I suppose, is the one that he's most famous for, which I think is a really brilliant drama. But a Nick Winding Ref in film now looks. It has a particular stylish look to it,

the way the color palette works. It refers to things like Jallo movies. And, I mean, they look absolutely amazing. Okay. So, yes, I guess, And he's been doing TV recently, Copenhagen Cowboy and too old to die young. But anyway, we will talk to Nicholas Winding Reffen after a clip from his latest film, which is called Her Private Hell. Beautiful.

Sweet. Powerful. You either have it or you don't. The moment you forget that is the moment you disappear. Have you heard? There's been another victim of the leather man. And that is a clip from her private hell, delighted to speak to its director, the legendary Nick, Winding Raffin. Nick, hello. How are you, sir? Very good, and thank you for having me.

And just to be absolutely clear, it's winding and not vending, as the Danes would say. That is correct, yes. But I've learned through the years that the pronounceations will never be correct. So it was, I guess, why I created NWR, because that's something that. everyone can agree upon. That's right. No one is going to get that wrong at all. Okay, so we just heard a clip from her private hell. Introduce us to where we are with this film. What's the story you're telling here, Nick? Well, on a factual level, it's about a young girl who searches for her father. And in that journey, she creates the perfect father and then ends up being caught in her own nightmare, her own private hell. And it's a fairy tale.

Okay, so that's the sort of essential headline. But as we just step away from that, and I suspect this is at the heart of what we're talking about, the catalyst for this film was what happened to you a few years ago. Do you just want to explain how you came to be dead? Well, it wasn't so much the catalyst, but my life has had many wonderful, strange experiences. I always felt that in a way

I've been very lucky at very specific times through my existence and the most lucky probably showed itself when I some years ago was dead for 25 minutes and prior to that my creative flame had kind of just vanished meaning that all artists go through a period or realizations, should I say,

where that flame, the creative desire, either vanishes or burns out. And in my situation, I was empty inside, meaning that I'd come to the end of the road, which I was in a way had made my peace with. But also, I was like, but I'm still so young.

I have so many years left. what am I going to do? Because that's all I can do is to express. And then God killed me. And I was dead for 25 minutes because I had what is called a leaking heart, which means that my blood was running backwards at my heart suddenly because of a vowel issue.

Your blood was running backwards? Yeah. Wow. Okay. And I was happily seen. saved by what I would say, the Tom Cruise of surgery, who saved me and rejuvenated me. And through electricity, I was brought back to life. And in that process, my creative flame was reignited as if I was 24 again. And that's been an absolute blessing.

When you describe that leaking heart, your blood flowing backwards and being brought to life with electricity. It's a very cinematic way of describing what happened to you. Well, I'm a visionary artist, I guess. So are you like George Bailey and it's a wonderful life? You have like, you've got a second go at this. I am George Bailey because I was able to say, Clarence, I want to live again. I had the ability to say to God, I want to live again. And he granted me that wish. I interviewed Ridley Scott a while back in. He's speeding up. He's speeding up. He's making more movies now than ever.

You get that feeling that he's on borrowed time. Is that what has rekindled this flame for you? Because her private hell, it feels like at times like a hallucination, like a fever dream, almost like something that you would see. People talk about near-death experiences. It feels like something that came out of this process, or would that be completely wrong? It wasn't so much to process because, you know, once you die, it just goes black. But when I did come back, I decided that I want to make movies again.

Not because of movies themselves, because there's movies everywhere around us. But I wanted to contribute to humanity by making films for a collective experience. Going to the movies is all I know. It's still my favorite thing to do. But I decided I wanted to make a movie that the AI could never make. I wanted to make a movie that the algorithm would consider the enemy. I wanted to make a movie for all the young people out there that felt that entertainment has been so sanitized and so controlled

and so pre-designed that is essentially something you can watch on speed on your iPad. So her private health has a philosophy. Like always, you polarize your opinions. It's how you penetrate the mind. But then it gives the

validation of the experience because it's no longer about good or bad. It's about your experience as a viewer. Whether you see it in the cinema or an iPhone, it's you. time is very essence

so I'm very conscious of time and I'm conscious what I'm giving out when I'm asking other people to give their time that exchange is very important to me that it feels that I'm validating the viewer as much as they are validating me, the creator that we're one in a way

and to do that you need to penetrate the shield that gets stronger and stronger because we shield herself against the mundane of the system. And when something finally penetrates, it can either like in Kansas year create an uproar of anger

that's out of proportions or it can generate love and support like it's flowing with glitter. But that's when you know you have done something right. You have contributed to the, human evolution. It sounds, Nick, is that you almost made this film on instinct. I think it's a good way of describing it because I did make the film very instinctually.

So would that mean that was, obviously there was a screenplay for everyone to work with? What does that mean on a day-to-day basis when you're making a film on instinct like that? I've always shot my films and even my two shows I created in chronologically order because they were a lot of them based on what I felt. or what I wanted to do if I wanted to change or if I wanted to adapt or I came with a better idea or something would happen. I never liked this conform of being constrained to just duplicating something. You know, coming up with the idea, developing a screenplay, shooting a screenplay, and then post-production, which each has their steps of evolution, has to, in my opinion, be one constant flow.

It's like it's one movement. And that is the only way that I get excited. It's the only way that I can do what I do. And I think on her private hell, I wanted to take that to the extreme. Because the film is essentially an installation with moving images. It's also an opera. It's a horror film. It's an action movie.

There's some sex, comedy, glitter. camp, a lot of music. Neon. It's an opera. Yes. On the opera and the music, what was your brief to your composer, Pino Donagio, legend, of course, don't look now and so on. What did you say, did you say to him you wanted all of that?

You told him all the contents that were going to be in the film. Go ahead and make it, or what did you say? Usually when I make my films or shows, I know what the music is because of my dyslexia, I've always had to rely on music. And Heripa Hell was the first time I didn't have the sound. But I knew

that I wanted to make it completely artificial, which meant on sets, on actual built sets with paint and brushes. I loved making the film. It was a tough film to make because everything was so instinctual that you were, you had to really go inwards, to go outwards. But halfway through

making it, I suddenly realized, of course, all of this is an opera, because it's all fake like an opera. And I love opera personally, but I always wanted to make one with moving images, if I were to. And this was the one. It was so apparent. So once we wrapped shooting, and I started looking for a composer, I needed a composer that does film music and opera. So you go to Italy. turns out all the composers that I knew were dead except Pino Donagio, who was in his mid-80s and retired. But I was such an admirer of Pino's work from obviously his days of Nicholas Rogue

or was with Brian De Palme or Dore Gento or there are many other amazing films he's worked on. I was able to have a lunch with him in Milan and I said to him, Pino, how would you like to write an opera? and he very easily said, sure, he would love to write an opera. And I said, okay, that's great because that's what we're making.

I sent him part of the script so he could read a little bit what it was about. And then I would show him the first visuals and the first cuts. And then I would collaborate with him. And I made it very clear that in an opera, you start with the music, obviously. Now we've reverse engineering.

We're ending with the music. So whatever I've built, if your music doesn't serve as that and can build the bow, that movie falls apart. So I've basically gone in and gamble on black because if this doesn't pan out the way I hope, this film will never will just disintegrate. And I obviously get high on those kind of gamblings. I love that kind of only one ability or one option because creativity functions in fear. and danger, in my opinion, creatively at least. So, yeah, it was all on Pino. And I will happily say I think he did amassed the work,

and he gave the movie the blood that it needed. Recently, Nick, we had Michael Sonoski on the program talking about his new film, The Death of Robin Hood. And his next film is Death Stranding, which I believe you gave your likeness to for the character Heart Man, which I imagine is a direct result of what happened to you a couple of years ago. Would that be right?

Maybe you're going to be in the movie, I don't know. Well, Hartman was created by Hideo, my friend, and I'm the eye candy. Yeah, Hideo Kujima. But that was done way before my situation, because Death Stranding is a game for many years ago, practically. But Hideo and I have had a lot of laughs about how me, playing Hartman and in his game actually turned out to be the Hartman in reality. So it's kind of a running joke between us. You are the Hartman. You need to be in the film.

Well, I always say that I essentially am Hideo Okujima in Death Stranding because Hot Man is in a way, Hideo Kujima. But again, he's also my best friend, so maybe I'm biased. Having made this the first film for 10 years, having done some streaming shows, Nick, what next We wait another 10 years for a movie? Do you go back to television? Where is your passion next? Well, I don't think there's something is going back to anything.

I think everything has just, again, emerged to one singular being more than ever. So I'll just go back and make another movie next year. Because I think in the end of the day, what movies do contribute is to collective experience. It's what brings us together in a room where we can all share. And I do believe in the days of technology tearing us apart in many ways, we need to remind ourselves, we are humans, and we need to stick together. And cinema is the most still inexpensive and most, in my opinion, entertaining way of spending your time together.

And it's a great way to, you know, fall in love in. The movie is her private hell. Nick Winding Ref, and we appreciate your time. Thank you very much indeed for talking to us. Absolutely. And if you see her private hell, let us know what you think. Mark will be reviewing it in a couple of weeks time when it's out correspondence at codemoe.com. So let's talk about everybody digs Bill Evans because we, well, we have talked about this already,

but it's out this week, so time to talk about it again. Yeah, so the Bill Pullman interview was in last week's show. If you haven't heard it, go back and listen to it, because it was a terrific interview. I thought he was really smart guy. So this is a biography. Can I just say the in the, sorry to interrupt, the FT interview with Bill Pullman, its headline was everybody digs Bill Pullman, which is, of course, entirely correct because everybody loves watching him in everything.

Yeah, but also I thought he was a very engaging interviewee. I thought he sounded like he was, you know, he was properly thinking his way through his answers. So, biographical drama about the legendary jazz pianist. He's based on a novel by Owen Martell called Intermission, directed by Grant G., who's a British filmmaker who's made films about Radiohead and Joy Division, made a, a, really. A film which I reviewed many years ago, which I really like Patience after Seabald, I really liked that film. He won the Silver Bear at Venice for Everybody Diggs Bill Evans, which

takes its name from one of Evans' most celebrated albums. The script is by Marco Halloran, who co-wrote and starred in one of my favorite Irish movies, Adam and Paul, is a film I absolutely love, and it is worth pointing out. If you're watching Everybody Diggs Bill Evans, Although the action plays out in New York and Florida, it is an Irish film production, as you said, when you were talking to Bill Pullman about it. So, opens in New York City, June 1961. Bill Evans' trio, he's played by Anders Danielson Lee, who is an actor, musician and physician, as you pointed out last week. And it's not entirely sure which one of those careers he's going to pursue. They play this near perfect gig, and we begin with a musical number of them playing.

this piece and you watch him at his bassist sort of interacting on an absolutely intuitive level. It's black and white visuals, moody, jazzy. You get a lot of stuff, you know, looking at Scott LaFarro's hands on the bass strings and Evans's fingers on the piano. The whole sense is that there is this bond between them. Then what happens is that that number intercuts with a car crash which kills the bassist. And Evans is left. traumatized because this lightning in a bottle partnership between him and this perfect musical partner was interesting. Bill Pullman said, you know, one of them was very confrontational, the other didn't like confrontation, but somehow between them, they had this synthesis.

But that partnership has now been extinguished with devastating results. Here is a clip from the trailer. Allow me to introduce Mr. Bill Evans. To play, you've got to be present. That's gone now. I need to find a replacement. That's not possible. To the great Bill Evans. Isn't that what all the papers say? I love the sound of his voice when he says that there's, yeah, the great Bill Evans, isn't that?

He has got an amazing voice, hasn't he? I mean, he is a real proper presence. Anyway, so what then happens is that Evans retreats into solitude, into heroin addiction, briefly moves in with his brother. before being sent to Florida to the home of his parents, played by Laurie Metcalf and Bill Pullman, who you heard there as the father. And most of the film then plays out there in this remote location, away from New York City, away from his life. And as I said, the source novel is called intermission. I haven't read the source. Have you read the source novel?

I have not. No. Okay. But Bill Pullman talked about how, and it's about an intermission in a musician's life. And the quote that Pullman said to you is sometimes an intermission is part of the music, which I thought was a lovely phrase. And so just as the relationship between those two players was the heart of the music. So the beat of this intermission is the relationship between him and his father, played by Bill Pullman. And they're chalk and cheese.

His dad is garrulous. He drinks too much. He sings badly in the local bar. He understands that his son is a genius, but he doesn't really. know what that means, or at least he can't quite express what it is. He's got a chip on his shoulder, but over the course of the time that they spend together, he sort of softens and opens up. And you made a point in the interview with Bill Pullman that as far as Bill Evans is concerned, his life is chaos, but the time that it isn't chaos is when he's playing. And one of the things

that we get is a recurrent image of him not playing the piano. There is a piece of piano sitting in the corner of the room that he doesn't play. And it's sort of a symbol of the chaos reigns because he's not playing. And there is a key moment when he moves towards playing. And it's like, okay, this is some form of resolution. You also brought up in that interview a key scene in which the family listen to the record. And that is a really hard thing to do to film people listening to music. I mean, you know, you see the needle go on the vinyl. But then you watch their faces. And I think that one of the triumphs of the film is that Grant G does a very good job of capturing the sight of people listening to something.

And again, this kind of relates to what I was saying about Andrew Scott. It's very hard to, it's very hard to do low-key. You know, there's a lot going on inside, but you're not doing anything on the outside. And I think he does that really well. There was another interesting thing that Bill Pullman said in your interview was that he was worried at first. that, you know, it's a black and white film. It's about diction. The subject matter is quite dark. Is there going to be an audience for it? And it's got a scene of people listening to music in it. I think we have to admit that the demographic is fairly niche. I mean, the

film is made with a lot of love and affection. Its editing is very jazzy and non-linear. I mean, we leap backwards and forwards. Most of the film is in black and white, but there are these throw forwards to colour sections later on, which in a way is kind of interesting because it shows you the future whilst living in the past, so you sort of know where all the individual stories are going by these other intermissions, which kind of break into the black and white. The other thing I think we do have to say is

it is a tale about people who are difficult to like. I mean, none of them really know how to communicate with each other, and it's a film in which people don't communicate with each other, other than musically. Actually, the most communication you see is in that opening sequence when he's playing the piano and he's looking at the bassist, and the two of them are kind of, they are obviously completely insane. And so it's that weird thing about the people, the people are isolated.

They're not communicating other than musically. Heroin addiction is a depressing thing in any, in any world at all. And I don't know whether you felt the same way, but the level of smoke inhalation and heroin injection did make me start to feel physically quite unwell. Because you say, you think, how can the human body continue to survive under these circumstances. Yeah, it's a sickly film in that regard for sure. That, a perfect phrase, it is a sickly film. What an absolutely brilliant summation of it. At times, it reminded me a little bit of, there was a film that Anton Corbyn made life, which was about the period in which

Dennis Stock and James Dean travel back to Indiana to do that sort of famous photograph. And it's, you know, that's really what happened. Apparently nothing happens, but that's quite an important thing. And this is a film in which not much happens, but a lot happens under the surface. Incidentally, it's worth mentioning that Adam and Paul, which is that film I mentioned earlier on, in relation to the screenwriter here, takes a lot of inspiration from waiting for Godo, which of course was famously described as a play in which nothing happens twice. And I think in an odd way, that description sort of applies here as well. It appears that not much is happening, but there is a lot happening under the surface. And I said, the most monumental moments in the movie are a scene that you talked about in which they listened to a record and a scene in which his parents upstairs hear their son for the first time in a long time start to play the piano again. Yeah. So the title of the book, Intermission, kind of says everything, doesn't it? Because it is,

the whole film is that intermission. It would be easy to talk this down because, like you said, there is a lot going on beneath the surface. And it's interesting that we were talking so much about Andrew Scott and the pressure film, because he'd have been great in this film as well. But if you're in the right mood, I think this is a, you know, it's a splendid film. It is, it's very stylish and they're all great performances. It's just that it is sickly and not much happens. Twice. Yeah. But that opening jazz sequence, as soon as it started, I thought, oh, well, Markle liked this bit. It looks beautiful, doesn't it? Thank you for thinking. And also, it's, I'm trying to remember the last time a film spent three minutes literally drooling over a double bass player's left hand.

Yeah. It's jazz. bass, though. So does that count? It's jazz bass, yeah. It does count. If you do dig, Bill Evans, correspondence at Kodemail.com, time for the laughter lift, which is a very, very welcome thing. Let's get on there and play this jazzy tune.

Here we go. There's no bass here, is there, it's... Well, there is a base, yeah. Oh, yes, there is. Dum, do, doom, doom, yeah. Okay. It's not very good. We just went dun-d-d-dun-d-d-d-d-d-b. We've got a little bit of jazy there. Anyway, Mark,

the most unsurprising news of the week Go on. Was a new survey that says 77% of people are idiots. And I can totally believe it. Fortunately, I belong to the 33% of intelligent people. Yeah, very good. Very good. I could kind of see it coming, but well done.

Of course. Mark, did I tell you about my last trip to Copenhagen? You didn't. We were awaiting our luggage at Copenhagen Airport when a poor little old lady fainted right onto the baggage carousel. She came round eventually. Hey! That's good.

I quite like that one. Mark, did you catch the sad news this week that the married couple, who were the inventors of the brochure, both passed away this week? So, rest in peace, Lee, Flett and his wife, Pamela. Anyway, Lee, Flet and his wife?

Lee Flett and Pamphlet, if you want it. I always see his wife, Pamela, I find that was a bit of it. Okay. Rest in peace, Lee Flett and his wife, Pam. Pam. You sort of swallowed the Pam bit. It was the delivery.

It was the way you'd tell them. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Two sequels.

Two sequels. Two sequels. Fall two, practical magic, two. Sounds like a football score. And if you've enjoyed what you've heard so far, that's a hostage to fortune. There is plenty more. That's a threat waiting for you over in take two such as five-question film club.

Three questions, emergency. And questions, shmest, in which this week we're asked, what exactly is the blacklist? And who has access to it? Oh, okay. I can do that. Okay, now we get to the football part of the show. Fall two, practical magic two, score draw. Points are shared.

What do you say? What are we doing first? Well, let's start with Fall 2, aka Fall 2 Dead Point. So, this is billed as being from the producer. uses of obsession, which is honestly not the best way to sell the film, because obsession and fall two have almost nothing in common, all right? Just to be absolutely clear, if you loved obsession and thought, I want another psychological drama like that, Fall two is not the film for you. It's not a thing. It's a bad thing. Just saying, weird way to sell it. It is, in fact,

the latest from German-Australian filmmakers, the Spearig Brothers, whose CV includes the sci-fi thriller predestination, the saw film Jigsaw, which are quite light. And the biographical horror movie Winchester for which you interviewed Helen Mirren. Oh yes, I remember. She came into the studio. She did. She came to the studio, Queen Helen Mirren. And I, when I was watching it, had to be elbowed in the ribs by Alan Jones because I fell asleep and started snoring. So anyway, this is the sequel to the 2022 film Fall by director Scott Mann and co-writer Jonathan Frank, who together wrote this. And apparently the first film became.

a big hit on Netflix, as a result of which they announced two sequels, the second of which will be directed by Scott Mann. There was something about them being made simultaneously, so maybe that's already happened. So first film, cost $3 million, took 21, thumbs up. Two women climb up a decommissioned 2,000-foot TV tower, and then a bit of the ladder falls away and there are precipitous consequences. Good. One of those women was Shiloh, who, for obvious reasons, cannot be with us for the sequel, although she does appear in flashback. Instead, we have Shiloh's sister, Jax, played by Harriet Slater, wrestling with the loss of her sister while clearing out her belongings. And in the belonging, she finds a scrapbook of planned, challenging climbs. Okay?

she then meets her sister's friend Luce, played by Asimur Thomas, who convinces her that the way to overcome her grief about the loss of her sister is get this, to follow her sister's dreams, to put her fears behind her, and do one of these insanely deadly climbs that she has found in the scrapbook of... No, no. Precisely. The lesson to learn is be a librarian. That's the lesson to learn.

Don't climb anything. Stay on the ground. So the next thing, you know, they're in Thailand doing a plank walk around the peak of Mount Kwan, a precipitously thin wooden walkway jammed into the rock on metal bars, which the mountain has got features like the devil's elbow, which is every bit as welcoming as that sounds. And their guide is Tom Brittany's John, who they enlist for a whopping price. since the walk is closed due to rock falls,

rain and earthquakes in the area. But still, they decide to go. Here's a clip from the trailer. Okay, welcome to the ancient plank walk. Take a deep breath. One foot in front of the other. Flip in. Clip in.

Click out. I'm sorry, I have absolutely no patience for them. They had all the warnings they could possibly have that this was a stupid thing to do. And if you carry on like that, you're going to get yourself in trouble. Anyway, sorry. Well, so, right. As I said, in the first film, you know, a section of Ladder Up the Tower fell away, leaving two women to survive by attempting to signal their presence to people on the ground

using flares, mobile phones and shoes. Dehydration and hallucinations make it all the more difficult. In the sequel, a section of Plank Walk falls away, leaving two women to survive by attempting to signal their presence to people on the ground using a light signal, mobile phones and a walkie-talkie, oxygen depletion and hallucinations make it all the more difficult. So in many ways, this is a fairly by-numbers rerun of the original slightly more expensive. This was 3.4 million, but still stripped down and still, I have to say, vertiginously terrifying. Now, I need to be clear about this. I am scared of heights, right? And the directors here know how to play on the fears of people who are scared of heights. I spent large parts of Fall 2 overwhelmed by you know what visceral clutch

is, right? I don't, but I can guess what it might be. Yeah. It's a condition that I have called it, you know, watching it was contraceptively upsetting. The script is nonsense, right, from the initial setup, you know,

hey, get over your sister's death from falling by going somewhere that you may fall from, to the hallucinations, see previous film, the big plot twists, which are even more obvious than the mountain that they're hanging off, and then the second plot twist, which enables a third act standoff in which they basically recreate the rope bridge scene

from Sorcerer, but higher up and without the trucks. So the plot is laughably perfunctory. It doesn't matter, because the film knows how to make you hide your face behind your hands as people hang and generally stumble from terrifying heights. I mean, the three main performances are engaging. I mean, despite the rubbish writing, I still believed that these were real people in real danger, really hanging off things.

And I did actually find myself at one point, I'm not proud of this. I found myself at one point whilst I was watching it and thinking, I'm not going to look away, I'm not going to look away, I'm not going to look away, and I actually said out loud, it's only a movie, it's only a movie, it's only a movie. Now, critics who are less scared of heights than me, some of them, you know, have been less impressed. I mean, and that's fine, because the writing is shonky, the plotting is shonky. It's all, it's all fantastically perfunctory like that, but I once met and kissed the feet of Philip Petit, who is the guy who tightrope walked between the Twin Towers. because to me, I just don't understand that at all.

And I am absolutely, do you remember when there was the feature film of The Walk? And it was, they did it in IMAX and there's the moment when, because obviously there's no actual footage. Do you remember that? I do. Absolutely terrifying. Oh, well, honestly, for a stripped down budget film, Fall 2 had me in exactly the same paroxysms. As I say, I have to be, hands up, I am scared of height. but they knew exactly how to,

they knew exactly how to do it and how to go, you're scared of heights? Well, we are going to prod you like that for 90 minutes or actually prod you like that for 70 minutes and then we're going to redo the bit from the end of sorcerers. So honestly,

on a visceral level, it absolutely worked for me. I'm not proud of it, but it absolutely pushed my buttons. So it's like if you've got a ranknophobia, it doesn't have to be the greatest movie about spiders, but if there's a load of spiders, it's going to absolutely freak you out.

Yeah, yeah. And congratulations, by the way, for not saying that, not mentioning the V word at all. Which V word? Because Vertica was not. No, that's a different thing. No, it's not. No, absolutely.

It is acrophobia, which is the fear of heights, but it's kind of an inconvenient truth, really. Yes. To quote another movie and a vice president from back in the day when things were fine. Okay, well, full two sounds quite fun. Yes. It is.

It is quite well. Unless you are acrophobic, like Mark. Okay, so another reissue in just a, another sequel in just a moment. But first of all, we have a couple of dates for your diary. Here's Norrie Valentine from Totness Pride. There are all kinds of events happening for Pride this year, but of most importance, there is a celebration of queer film happening at our wonderful not-for-profit cinema. There are seven films showing across the four days of Pride this year,

ranging from new releases like Lesbian Space Princess and Mad Fabulous to queer classics like Cabaret and Pink Narcissus. That's the 24th to the 27th of September. More information, visit totnesspride.com.ukuk. Thanks for listening and hello to Jason. There you go, Norrie knows how to do it, Norrie Valentine. So again, that's Totnesspride, one word.combe.uk. And here is Dan from Christchurch.

At the regions in Christchurch, Grindfest returns from September 18th to the 20th, bringing cult cinema to the big screen on rare 35mm cellular prints. Among the films is no such thing as a vampire, a long-lost BBC film discovered right here at the theatre on an old 16mm reel, alongside Existence, Vamp, Basketcase, Tenebrae, The Wicker Man, and many more. It's a chance to see cult films the old-fashioned way, films from actual film. For ticket details, visit the region.co.uk. That was Dan, giving it all. He was selling that.

He was. Incidentally, it is a great venue. It is a really great venue. Okay. That's the Regent Christchurch and as Dan mentioned it's the regent one word.com. Please send it in your videos to the usual address which is correspondence at codemode.com. So fall two we've done. Here's the other sequel we're talking about. Fall two. Practical magic two. Correct. The sequel that no one would have been, no, it should be practical magic two. Oh, that's right, because if it's, because if it's a go, Chelsea one, Tottenham, two. No, no, no, no, no.

Apart for the fact, apart for that, anyway, that would never happen. Wouldn't never happen. Chelsea one, Tottenham, two. So the winning side goes up. If it's a draw, it's sort of up and then down. Dada-l-l-da-l-l-d-l. Practical magic, two. And then if it was practical magic nil, how would you be that, fall two?

Practical magic, nil. Neil. That's how it goes. But it's not. It's two. Well, that is the review. So, the sequel that no one was asking for to a film that most of us can't remember. You know why you would remember Practical Magic, too?

Did I interview the magicians? No, no, no. When DVD was a new thing, you and I both got sent a DVD player at the end of the 90s, and they sent us a selection of DVDs, and one of them was Practical Magic. that's how long ago it was. Wow. From that bundle, I just remember contact, putting that on and thinking, that's a good film. And in the space sequences, wow, that's actually silent and not full of the hiss from the tape.

Yeah, precisely. Truly incredible. Precisely. But honestly, that's how long ago it was. In the time since the first film came out, an entire new format arrived, succeeded, and then became obsolete. And now we have the sequel. So the original was adapted from a novel by Alice Hoffman, directed by Griffin Dunn,

and starred super hot pair Nicole Kidman and Sandra Bullock as the Owen sisters, modern-day witches, with a family curse that will kill anyone that they fall in love with. Film cost around 70 million, and I think in total took around 90, so not a hit, although apparently over the years it's developed a cult follow. partly because, you know, there is stuff going on in it and partly because people, I think, discovered it on DVD.

Anyway, now, all these years later, we have a sequel adapted from Alice Hoffman's 2021 novel Book of Magic, the final book in the series apparently, with screenwriters, Akiva Goldsman, Georgia Pritchett and Kelly Marcel. Good. And directed by Suzanne Beer. Great. That's quite the team. and starring Nicole Kidman and Sandra Bullock.

Wow. Sounding good. Sounding good. Gillian and Sally Owens, the latter of whom has been widowed due to a seemingly ongoing family curse that despite what you thought might have happened at the end of the first film hasn't gone away.

Here's a clip from the trailer. No magic is stronger than sisterhood. Cast by fate, tested by time, and never broken. What is wrong with you? Are you like six? Are you six? You need to get out there, Sal.

Have a little fun. When was the last time you were touched? I have my family, and I'm not receiving texts with photos that I did not ask for. Oh, let me tell you about Chad. Oh, we know plenty about chat. Come on. Hi! Oh, my!

Oh, my! Everybody is a cat. Where is it? Where is it? I'm so beautiful. Remember when Mom would tell stories where everyone who fell in love died? Died.

You don't believe we're a curse. No. We're Owens women. Lovers are undoing. So Sally's got two daughters, Kylie and Antonia, from whom she has kept the truth of their magical heritage, although the Nicole Kidman character has constantly said, don't fall in love, don't fall in love, just have fun, play around, don't fall in love.

But Kylie then tells her hunky boyfriend that she loves him. She's not been saying it, but she says she loves him. And he is immediately hit by a car and put into a coma. So the spell must be broken. Truth must be told. Old secrets must be outed. All of which involves a trip to marry England, first to London and then to the rural countryside, in search of a way to break the curse again.

Also back are Diane. I always get this wrong. Is she weist, weist, weist, vice, Weist. Has she ever starred in a film by Nick Vending Refan? No, anyway, her and Stockard Channing with Regal Price, that's right, yeah. And none of them had vertigo. As lovable aunt's Jet and Francis,

who appears to have wandered him from a remake of Hocus Pocus. So, look, it took nearly three decades to get this sequel. Honestly, watching it felt like it was taking three decades to watch it. I mean, it's 130 minutes long. It should have been 89 minutes long maximum. It is lumbering, contrived, inert. It is a sort of hodgepodge cross between the witches of Eastwick and Harry Potter without the subversive energy of the former or the playful magic fun of the latter.

And the main problem is the writing. It is written like an accountant's log of mechanical plot points and contrived character machinations. I mean, it is like watching a group of writing. moving a series of somewhat shot-worn chess pieces around on an endless board that just goes on and on and on with no purpose. I mean, these are good writers. These are good writers and the script should not be this bad. You've got the guy, Lepey, who picks the kind of short straw as the tattooed magical professor for whom Sally gets the hots. But his entire role seems to have been written by the people.

Remember the coffee adverts from a long time ago about, oh, you know, coffee, ooh, coffee, ooh, oh. And then what's the guy, you know, the guy, Anthony thingy, you know, he was very, very charming. Anthony Head. Andy Head. Anthony Head. He died recently. He did.

And he was very, very charming. He was a great screen presence. Well, this seems to have been written with a, let's do that. Let's do that. Every single time we see that guy, he'll just, you know, it'll be a short thing and he'll be fantastically attractive. And everyone will understand these fantastically attractive. He just stands around smouldering with or without clothes.

And I think it's meant to be sexy. Honestly, it comes off as smug, but it's not his fault. It's the writing's fault. On the plus side, I think Sandra Bullock has always been a top-notch comedian. And I think, you know, she does that kind of trademark deadpan a sides thing. She does that really well. I mean, the first time everyone really became aware of her ability for it was while you were sleeping, which incidentally was a Radio One movie of the month.

see it first and for free with Radio One. And she gets all the laughs that are in the film. They're not really laughs. They're more sort of chuckles. But the material gives her so little to work with that you almost end up feeling like everything she's doing is just Sandra Bullock doing Sandra Bullock. As for Nicole Kindling, she is absolutely in Nicole Kindling mode.

I mean, brittle, you know, it's meant to be racy ditsiness and it just comes off as contrived rather than anarchic and lovable. And it's a real shame because in the middle of this stodgy mess, there is a positive female-driven narrative with punching above its weight star power. I mean, I haven't even mentioned, Maisie Williams is in it. I mean, that's how, you know, the cast is so big, I didn't even mention that she's in it. And it is a refreshingly upbeat story about female companionship and friendship. And, you know, when we do that thing on Take Ultra in which we read the comments from below the line on YouTube. Yes.

And it's always like, oh, he's so. woke. As long as something's written by a woman or directed by a woman, he would say it's great. He's got the rogue mind virus. Well, if those people were telling the truth, I would absolutely love this because it ticks all of those boxes. The problem is it just feels like a box ticking exercise. It doesn't feel like an organic drama. So firstly, below the line, YouTubers, who are who won't mind virus? No, this is not what happens. I wish it was the case that just because something was, you know, had a bunch of values to which I aspire was good. Unfortunately, it isn't the case.

And I so much wanted to like this and I so much didn't. That is it for this week. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production this week's team, Dom, Eric, Josh and Heather, the redactor was Simon Poole. In Take 2, we're directing you to the Overflow Car Park for more chat about current film releases. Don't forget people of Bristol. and it's

Enveron. We'll be at the brisal beacon on December the 6th tickets are on sale via the link in the show notes. You can get both takes

ad free. You just search Kermud of Mayer Patreon and join the church Mark. What is your film of the week?

Well, I think largely because Andrew Scott is terrific and Kerry Condon is terrific and the story is always worth revisiting pressure.

We'll be back next week and another take has landed just alongside this one, so we'll talk to you soon. Reaching your audience on Spotify with display ads is easy. Use your existing creative and launch your first campaign in minutes with Spotify Ads Manager.