Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Has SPIDER-MAN: BRAND NEW DAY got Mark’s Spidey senses tingling? + ASA BUTTERFIELD

Episode Date: July 30, 2026

The Take is now on Patreon: www.patreon.com/kermodeandmayo Become a Vanguardista or an Ultra Vanguardista to get video episodes of Take Two every week, plus member-only chat rooms, polls and submissions to influence the show, behind-the-scenes photos and videos, the monthly Redactor’s Roundup newsletter, and access to a new fortnightly LIVE show - a raucous, unfiltered lunchtime special with the Good Doctors, new features, and live chat so you can heckle, vote, and have your questions read out in real time. Spider-Man is swinging back onto cinema screens this weekend in Spider-Man: Brand New Day. Tom Holland’s masked web slinger is anonymous once again, his identity having been wiped from the memories of his fellow New Yorkers - including those once closest to him. Mark reviews this latest Marvel blockbuster, alongside a homegrown British indie that’s generating some serious buzz: Ish. Recalling Kes, The 400 Blows and the Apu trilogy, it’s a vivid coming-of-age debut you won’t want to miss. Also coming soon on digital is Our Hero Balthazar, a dark satire tackling gun violence and internet culture, starring Asa Butterfield - who is our special guest this week. He plays Solomon, a gun-obsessed would-be school shooter, online-trolling from the Texas trailer he shares with his granny. The film centres around Solomon’s uneasy friendship with Balthazar, a New York rich kid who craves the social cachet of preventing a shooting by befriending its potential perpetrator. Asa joins Mark and Simon to unpack this transformational performance. Plus the Laughter Lift, more on our inevitable technological overlords in new mini-feature ‘AI Don’t Like That’, and of course lots of top correspondence from you. Cheers! You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo. Our Christmas Movie Spectacular is back! It’s in Bristol this year on Sunday 6th December. Don’t miss it! Here’s the link for tickets: https://www.fane.co.uk/kermode-and-mayo What’s On info: https://www.deliveryafterdark.com/ https://theatreship.co.uk/#tickets EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Timecodes: 00:00:00 Introduction 00:08:29 Ish review 00:16:27 Box Office Top Ten 00:31:22 Asa Butterfield interview 00:46:51 Our Hero, Balthazar review 00:57:48 Laughter Lift 00:59:26 AI don't like that 01:03:32 Spider-Man: Brand New Day review Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Evening, buyer's remorse. Buy a new car, I'll be moving in. Let's get started. Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana. You what? Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it.

So there's no... No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyers rejoice? I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it. Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana.

Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com. name is Peter Parker, but I'm also Spider-Man. This Thursday, we're faced with a threat. That can be anyone. The world may have forgotten Peter Parker. I'm just a neighbor,

friendly neighbor. But he hasn't forgotten them. Sometimes Spider-Man has to do the hard thing. That's my responsibility. Dr. Banner? I didn't know you could get that big. Spider-Man, brand-new day in theaters Thursday. Before we begin, a quick reminder

that you can become a Van Gadi and get an extra episode every Thursday. Including bonus reviews. Extra viewing suggestions. Viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas. Plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in questions, Schmestians. You can get all that extra stuff via Apple Podcasts or head to extra takes.com for non-fruit-related devices.

There's never been a better time to become a Vanguard Easter. Free offer, now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter, we salute you. There was an old ad which started, was it PC World? It went, where in the world? PC World. Now adapted.

Where in the world, Mark, where are you? Where are you this week? I'm at the Provence Art Festival du Film up by Meneb. I was here last year, you remember? It's this film festival I'm involved in that they, it's a documentary film festival. Last year it was documentary films about artists. This year it's documentary. film is about music and musicians.

So I'm, it's really nice, actually. It's a really, really beautiful place. Kevin McDonald's going to be here to talk about that John and Yoko one-to-one doc, Jane Pollard, and Ian Forsyth. I'm doing a conversation with about Broken English. Susan Steinberg is here to talk about give me shelter. Oh, I'm going to introduce Epic, the Elvis Presley in concert film, which both you and I absolutely love.

Give me a quote for my introduction from Simon Mayer. So I can say Simon Mayo from the UK says of Epic. It's directed by Baz Luhrmann. Well done. It's fantastic. It should be seen in a double bill with his other Elvis film, I think. It is funny.

I really, I keep thinking about seeing that movie the first time and just thinking there's so much of this, the fact that so much of that footage we hadn't seen before. And I talked to Sanj about it afterwards because of course Sanjeev is, you know, is a bigger Elvis fan than you or me, and actually knows a lot of those people,

and he thought it was absolutely knockout. Anyway, so yeah, that's where I am. I'm in sunny France. It came in last night in the middle of the night. So just so that we can close our eyes and imagine where you are, because obviously that's what we need to do. Okay, so Meneb is sort of like a mile up the road, and I am currently in the home of Lucy Darwin,

who I've known for ages, who's kind of running the first. festival and I knew Lucy way back when she was a film publicist and then she became a film producer and now a film director and so I'm sitting in this real I mean honestly it's ridiculously nice the surroundings but that doesn't help us place where you are it's nice that you're in a nice house but I'm in provence okay I'm in provence I'm on province right where they drink rosé for breakfast I'll tell you I'll tell you how we can cite it I'm about four miles or five miles away from Ridley Scott's winery. Incidentally, I should just tell everybody

that Simon Paul, the redactor, has literally, his faces just appeared on screen because we had to start the program without him because he was off drinking rosé doing something else. But nice to see that he's here. Hello, Simon. Thanks for turning up. He just appeared like a spooky cutaway. That's what it was.

Yeah, he's saying childcare. Yeah. Yeah, we've all pulled that one. It's allowed in the 21st century. He's found a pub that was open and that's where he's gone. Welcome to the show anyway. Mark is in France. I'm in Showvis, North London. When you get to movie reviews, what can we expect? Well, it's a really exciting week. We have Ish, which is a fantastic feature debut,

which I'm really, really excited to talk about. Spider-Man brand new day, a new Spider-Man movie, which is going to be enormous. And our hero Balthazar, with our special guest, who's Aza Butterfield, who's one of the stars of that, their film. you'll hear from ESA a little bit later on. And in take two. In take two, David Burns' American Utopia is opening for one night in cinemas. I want to talk about this because both you and I have now seen the current David Byrne live show.

I was just at latitude over the weekend doing... Yeah, I mean, I saw it a few years ago. I mean, it's essentially the same thing, but with fancier backdrops and things. Exactly. And also, in the ongoing Ardman celebrations, we have reached peak Bardman feature because Wallace and Gromack Curse of the Wear Rabbit is back in cinemas, and that's almost the most exciting news of the week. Is David Burns American Utopia the same one as it came out a few years ago? They've reissued it because he's been back on tour. Yeah, it's just a reissue of that film, yes. Yeah.

Which a lot of people might be wanting to see and own as a souvenir of the show. You can get take two ad free by heading to our Patreon page. You just search Kermode and Mayo and your finest. we are going to do for our next Hall of Fame vote, it's going to be the Battle of the Bristolian Independent Cinemas. Okay. And we're looking for the topmost Bristolian Independent. Cinema 1 is the watershed. Cinema 2 is the cube.

Cinema 3 is the Old Picture House. Cinema 4 is 20th century flicks. And Cinema 5 is the Orpheus cinema. or any others that you can think of. Let us know if we've missed out any. And then you can vote and take part and stuff. Just let us know. Correspondents at codemur.com.

We'll announce the winner at our show on December the 6th. So there's not really an urgency about this in terms of getting your votes in. Because you've got until the end of the... You've got until Christmas, essentially. When we do a show at Bristol Beacon, which is at 7pm, the ticket link is in the show notes.

I can't believe... I mean, I know lots of people have done already, bought all their tickets for something in December, but it seems to me extremely odd behaviour. But, you know, a good thing, obviously. Yes, it's a very good thing. And we are really, really looking forward to coming to Bristol and having a fabulous time. Of course, there is the Bristol-Ardman connection. So it's all tying together thematically perfectly.

The only thing that isn't tying together is that we're talking about Christmas and it's the middle of summer. That's right. And we haven't even reached August yet. Nathan Pavey sends us an email. Dear Try and Mester, long-time listener, first-time email. On the recent subject of inappropriate films to show in a hospital, I feel I might have made my own dubious film-adjacent hospital boo-boo.

Right. Because we are all primary school children. Back in 2014, my good lady wife and I were in the pre-maternity ward in mid-December, in Not Jobies, West London, waiting for what people wait for in pre-maternity wards, our midwife implied that it would be a good idea to take a couple of books to help fill the hours of waiting. My wife had never read Jaws,

which is one of my personal favourites and is always on the bookshelf, so she decided to pack it in the maternity bag. As the waiting went into the afternoon, the ward went into an exhausted, quiet, lull. I imagined tiredness made up of a mixture of expectation and maternity drugs. At this point, my wife asked me to read, lead to her. So I took the aforementioned book and started reading. Now, I don't know if you've ever read Jaws, I have, but it starts. It starts how the film starts with the unfortunate young lady

meeting her demise by shark. That's right. It seemed like the entire ward was hearing me describe how she screamed as her own blood spread across the water and warm blood flowed into the cold. When I finished reading the first chapter, my wife had fallen asleep, probably from my recital. and it was at this point that there was a collective sigh of relief on the ward because I realised only now that expectant mothers do not particularly want to hear about the messy business of blood gushing out of people and things attacking them. I quietly put the book away and slinked off in search of an afternoon cupper. The next day we had our own messy encounter, but not with a shark,

because we got our lovely daughter, Jessica, who hasn't tried to attack me yet. Up with movies with fish in and down with the orange cheese puff. swimmingly, Nathan Pavey. I certainly wasn't asked to read to the good lady's ceramics. I mean, I think I made, we were asked for musical preferences, I think, for the first one. And then I think I did make a cassette, maybe, or a CD. I can't remember with the others, but anyway. Well, do you remember the email from last week in which somebody had made a soothing playlist

for their partner? Yes, the drugs don't work. Well done. The surgeon or whoever it was, the midwives, it said, you are kidding. Yeah. There's more on this kind of topic a little bit later. If you want to get in touch, obviously you know where we are, correspondence at codemair.com. Movie review time. Tell us something that's out and interesting. Okay, isish, ISH. This is the feature debut from musician, visual artist, filmmaker, Imran Perretta. It was co-written by Andrew Walsh, whose CV includes things like

disco pigs, the film of which introduced us to Killian Murphy. Anyway, ish is developed from a 2019 installation, The Destructors, which Imran Perretti has currently got on display at the tape Britain. I think that's showing now. So the story centres on two friends. There's 12-year-old Ishmael, who's played in utterly natural fashion by Fahann Hasnatt, and Maram, who is a slightly older boy played by Yaya Katana. And these two kids have got fantastic on-screen.

chemistry. They're both making their screen debut, although it turned out, because I interviewed the director on stage at the BFI a few weeks ago, and he said he cast them independently. And when he was working with them, he said, no, it's amazing. You know, you've got really natural chemistry. And they went, yeah, well, we've known each other since we were three. So apparently they'd been friends for ages and he just didn't know. Very fortunate. So Isish's mother has died. He lives with his dad, his grandmother, and his older sister. His sister is played by Joy Crooks, the singer-songwriter. The whole thing plays out in Luton and surrounding Bedfordshire, all of which is shot in this kind of oddly lush black and white by Jermaine Canyard's,

who's the DP. And, you know, Luton often gets a bad press as being like somehow grim and, you know, filled with strife. But crucially, that thing about when you're young, your hometown looks excited. I've been talking a lot recently about Ken Russell's, the Devils. And the Devils, which is set in Ludon in 17th century France, is designed by Derek Jarman. And Ken Russell said, the whole thing is, I didn't want it to look like an old mossy city, because when you live somewhere, wherever it is, you feel like it's modern and exciting, because it's your town. So that's why Lodon in the Devils looks like something out of metropolis.

Well, in the case of this, everything looks like it would to a young eye. It looks exciting. And in the early scenes, we see these two boys roaming the world. woods, on their bikes, picking blackberries, which they're not only eating, but they're also using to kind of simulate blood in playfights. The whole thing has a really kind of natural, very kind of unforced energy. Here's a, here's a quick clip from that scene when they're picking blackberries. I come try the black ones, the lane. O'oy, yo, yo. Get me one. You want to try one, yeah? Try it, this a bad boy. I dare banging. They're banging, banging, isn't it?

Back at your t-shirt, back at your t-suit. Oh, bro, with a spike hand. Think about one by one in it. Put them in. Where if someone sees us? It's smile and us. Well, right. I think I care about people looking at us,

but I'm trying how much is this thing. Can't that. That'll be enough. That'll be enough. You see what I mean about that kind of natural sound? It's almost like, it's almost got the quality of cares to it. It's like, it's just people being,

and it feels really kind of documented. There's that lovely kind of sound of nature in the background. Anyway, it's the summer. It's the holidays. But it's also in true coming of age movie fashion. It's the end of something. It's the end of the holiday. It's the end of childhood incidents.

Anyway, when they're back on the streets, in Luton, things are tougher. The older boy wants him with an older gang. Sidelines his young friend when he meets up with those kids. And then Maram, who is his grandmother, calls that Palestinian boy, he's got this kind of street. talk and there's the background of conflict going on around the world. And then he's picked up by the police. The police are facially profiling people with those machines and street. And he's picked up by the police dragged into a van. And when that happens, his young friend,

ish basically runs off. And he is in many senses dragged out of his childhood into adulthood. And when it happens, I said, ish panics and abandons him. And this forms a crack in their relationship. and the rest of the film is about what then happens, what the fallout of that fracture is. I mentioned that you can hear sort of the tenor of KES in the way in which the dialogue is completely natural. There's an awful lot of critics have drawn attention to the fact that Ish, I-S, K-E-S, and the Apu trilogy APU

all seem to be sort of part of the same film ecosystem. I mean, I thought for me, the best way of describing this, It's like it's a really beautifully observed coming of age tale. It's got the toughness of 400 blows. It's got the accessibility of stand by me, which I think you and I both absolutely love. And it's got the poetry of Lynn Ramsey's rat catcher. There is an autobiographical element to it.

Apparently, the director had a formative experience at the age of 13 had being pulled into a police fan. And he said that was 100% the moment in my childhood, this was an interview in The Guardian, that I lost my innocence because I understood how I was seen outside my family home, outside school, outside the community. In that moment, I understood that I was seen as some sort of threat. And he said that since then, all his work has been about that moment of seeing yourself as other people see you. And I think the film is about that, but I also think it's about the way in which you can have a relationship, kids can have

relationships that are absolutely intense and then something happens that fractures them. Quite recently, I was watching Lucas Donz film close, actually when I was in that festival in Croatia, and that has a similar kind of energy to it. The music for the film is brilliant. Perretta is a musician and the score is a really, really big part of it. And one of the things that the score does is it makes fantastic use of handclaps, you know, like handclaps and voices. and if you get a chance to see the destructors,

you can see where that comes from. Honestly, if I still have that show on Scarlet at the station that you and I both used to work for, I'd be playing loads of stuff from this soundtrack. But anyway, look, I think this is an absolutely brilliant feature debut from a rising filmmaker who you are going to hear much, much more of in the future. It's got terrific reviews, it's been lauded wherever it's played,

and understandably so. It is one of my favourite films of the... year. I think, Simon, you would love it because I think it's got real heart to it. You know, we often talk about what this means of a film is a humanist film. It's about, you know, it is about the human experience. I mean, it's got a very strong political undertow to it as well. It's substantial. But it's a terrific coming of age movie and a really terrific feature debut. And the name of the director we will be hearing a lot of again. Imran Peretta. And I think you will, you will hear his name an awful lot because

as I said, he's a very successful artist and but as now as a feature filmmaker I think he, I mean, I think he's, I think he's found his home and I just can't wait to see what he does next. Still to come after the break, the box office top 10. We'll talk about

our hero Balthazar. We'll be talking to Ace of Butterfield, one of the stars of that film. Spider-Man brand new day. It's all on the way after this. What happens when two people who grew up in a very strange corner of Los Angeles look back and realize just how bizarre their upbringings really were? They start a podcast, of course. I'm Ashley Johnson.

And I'm Talas and Jaffe. Before we became the internet people we are today, we spent our childhoods as working actors, appearing in shows like growing pains and films like Mr. Mom. In our podcast, Weird Kids, we're diving deep into our unique upbringings, our friendship with each other, and all the delightfully odd interests.

we still carry with us today. In each episode, we get to share stories of our youth, the things that bring us joy, the problems that we face, and occasionally the friends we've collected along the way. If you're a misfit, an outcast, or just a weirdo who loves all things nostalgic and unconventional, come take a seat at our table. Each week, we'll be releasing previously members-only episodes

on YouTube and all major podcast platforms, with new episodes dropping exclusively and ad-free on beacon.tv. I first met Quenetta when I started reaching out to women in prison. For years, I thought I knew why she killed a man. But the more I dug in, the more I realized that nothing was quite so simple. I was just so scared that I was about to die. She did some things she shouldn't have did. She made a big mistake.

What She buried is coming August 1st to The Binge. Search for What She Buried wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribers to The Binge can listen to all episodes all at once. Add free. Okay, time for the box office top ten. And at number 13, Animal Farm. So we spoke to Andy Circus on last week's programme.

We did. Who's this? Morag in Dundee. Animal Farm isn't a generic revolution goes wrong a story. Orwell was writing about a very specific political phenomenon. To make the story fit a modern right-wing populist allegory, The film has had to add characters, remove key ones and substantially change the narrative. At that point, it stops feeling like an adaptation of Animal Farm and starts feeling like an entirely new story, borrowing Orwell's title and iconography.

Okay. Maggie Burroughs says, it is perhaps worth noting when trying to understand the level of criticism being aimed at this animal farm, that Orwell fully understood that authoritarian-libertarian political spectrum, are present on both sides of the left-right-wing spectrum. It is always worth paying attention to the people who are policing, controlling and mangling speech because that is simply never a good sign. I'm really looking forward to seeing some more reviews of the movie, probably more than seeing the movie itself.

Well, but see the film, have an opinion based on what you've actually seen rather than what you've read other people write about it. I like the film much more than I expect to do. On the subject of mangling the language, in that first email, somebody said populist. And a number of people took to the internet to point out that I said popularist and not populist. It's absolutely true. I mean, I am the most malapropic person I know. My entire life has been spent using words that are close to the word that I meant or they mean something else. The other one is putative. What do you think putative means?

Attempted. Yeah, it means supposed. I always thought putative meant budding because it sounded like something with people, but it doesn't. Anyway, you're absolutely right. I said popularism and popularist as opposed to populist and populism, and that is me being malapropic and stupid. On the other hand, I think that the film is so much better than the harsh reviews have given it credit for. I think the third act doesn't work, but I think for the first two acts, I think as you're right in saying, it's top end primary. and I think if you showed that to a top-end primary school,

or they would have loads and loads of stuff to talk about. I think the only misstep is that I think leaving the ending is meant to be horrifying. The ending does not need to have a positive conclusion. I understand Andy Circus saying you can't say to people, it's all terrible, we can't do anything. But I don't think a terrifying ending does say that. But I think two-thirds of it are pretty solid, and I like the way in which it's updated for the, pardon me,

populist agenda. I think there's an element to which it's not generic, but the whole revolution goes wrong story is not just the Stalinism that he was writing about. You know, you only have to know the bare basics of, for example, the French Revolution to know that a revolution will eat itself and the people that have made it, you know, so there are general truths that run through revolutions, but it obviously was specifically a piece of its time. And I'm not sure that the adaptations were made to make it fit politically. I'm not sure about that, but it was certainly made with an awareness of the country from which it has.

Yeah, I mean, certainly the British animation, which as I said, you know, was, I only found this out when researching it last week, was covertly funded by the CIA, was specifically made politically. But, you know, you made the point, you quoted Pete Townsend, it is meet the new boss, same as the old boss, which is a universal truth, actually across the spectrum. And I think that's kind of the point. I just remain really surprised by just how hostile some of the responses have been. Number 10 in the chart, number 11 over there is Supergirl?

Good central performance, shame about the film. Disclosure Day is at number nine? It's hanging on in there. This is its seventh week. We sort of talked about this briefly last week. I said, the further away I get from it, the less I think of it. But I think overall, it has still. stuck with you more than it has with me. And I think we both agree that there's real pleasure

in watching a director of that caliber enjoy themselves that much. Evil dead bum at number eight, number six in America. You need to add no more. That is, it is now and will forever be evil dead bum. Obsession is at number seven, number nine in Canada. So look at this 11th week on release and it's still in there at number seven. So evil dead bum, third week, number eight, obsession. 11th week, number seven. It just goes to demonstrate. If you've got a smart idea, horror is a genre of ideas.

It is not a genre of just gore and stuff. And, yeah, obsession is such an exciting movie. It's terrific to see it doing so well. The invite is at number six. Grown up comedy, which is kind of rare in the current market. Great performances all around. I mean, I think that the interesting thing about the invite is that when I saw, it reminded me of the kind of film that you can't make anymore.

And I'm kind of impressed that they did manage to make it. And it's good that it's still holding on in there. Number five is Jana Nagan. I think it's pronounced Najagan. At least this is what it says the Tamil pronunciation is on wikid Jana, the Jagan. Indian Tamil language, political action drama. It wasn't press screen.

If anyone has seen it, please let me know. Minions and Monsters, is it number four, number five over there? We had the most brilliant email last week from somebody who had taken their young child to see it, and they had absolutely loved it and laughed all the way through. And I think the real triumph of it is how universal it is. I was talking to Mike Hammond, Dr. Mike Hammond, professor Mike Hammond, who is a real chaplain specialist. And he said, the fact is, the minions are modern-day slapstick in its most perfect incarnation.

and they are. I mean, Mike has a grandson who will sit in front of Minions movies and will just laugh in that incredibly spontaneous way that Slapsday comedy provokes. Moana is it number three, number two in America? Very, very stinky reviews. I didn't mind it as much as other people did. I do think the whole Disney live action project is a bit pointless, but I thought of all of them, this was the one that mithed me the least, although I think that's probably because I love Moana the best because of all, I just love the story, I love the songs. And I thought, I think the rock's great. Toy Story 5 is it number two? Sixth week in the charts. Um, for the fifth install. It is a big hit, big hit, big hit and it's done well. And we've had some really nice

emails from people saying that they thought that it actually did speak to the whole issue of children and screens. I, it's not for me. I think I've kind of lost it with Toy Story now. And that sort of breaks my heart a bit, but it is good to see that people took their kids to see it. And And they did get something out of it. And number one, very number one, here and there and everywhere, is the Odyssey. Some more news from Go Woke, Go Broke. The Odyssey took a massive $215 million in its second weekend, which is down by 19%. What a flop.

It's already taken $639.6 million worldwide. If you compare that to Oppenheimer at the same stage, that had taken 400, so it's bigger than Oppenheimer. Took a 66% market share in UK and Ireland at the weekend. Biggest grossing IMAX second weekend of all time. So as, well, if that's going broke, then let's all go broke together. It's just great, isn't it? It's just, there was a thing on, I think it was either John Stewart or Seth Myers

of a sort of supercut of all these right-wing, journals on Fox News, all pointing out why it was that the Odyssey was absolutely going to flop and it was going to be a total disaster and no one was going to make any money out of it because of the go-woke go-broke thing. And as you pointed out last week, they've gone very quiet. They've gone very, very quiet. Here's a little taster from next week's hot takes and cold comfort, which is our feature which highlights the most normal comments from our YouTube channel. Here is someone called Life's a Beach whose comment I will read out in my real voice.

Okay, fine. Because normally it's, you know, it's either Heather being Scottish or posh or the redactor in a variety of bewildering voices and appearances. So Life's a Beach says it's not very good. There you go. He uses a short word meaning rubbish. Yes. There you go. I've sorted it for you.

The shill critics can blow it up all they like. the public hate it. Well, Mark, can I suggest that may the public hate all your future books? May the public hate this podcast. May the public hate all my future books? Because this is the kind of hate we can all deal with, equalling massive worldwide success. $600 million worth of your hate, please. That would be absolutely marvelous. Gus says, Dear Stem and Petal, long-time listener, second-time emergency mailer. Regarding Jorgos's email about the loftest flower in the Odyssey from last week. Since fruits developed from flowers, perhaps Nolan showing a flower rather than the fruit isn't quite the error it appears to be.

Or knowing Nolan, it was entirely deliberate. Obey, who is a refugee from London claiming asylum in Gateshead, I first saw the Odyssey on a premium large format screen, then again on a nearly empty standard screen, and the surprise was that it had lost none of its power. The bigger, louder formats may enhance the scale, but unlike something like Avatar, this isn't a film that demands, sorry, this isn't a film that depends on presentation technology to work. Its greatness comes from the filmmaking itself. My hunch is that it'll remain impressive on TVs, laptops, and even airplanes, seat back screens, though I still recommend catching it on a cinema, if you can.

Thank you. That's very interesting because I think you're the first person to have seen it on normal who's you're in touch and you would hope that it loses none of its power and it appears to be the case. Well, we were talking about this last week and saying, you know, is there a problem if you have made a movie that can only be appreciated in a format which is not accessible to a vast sway to the population? And it is therefore very encouraging to hear somebody saying, no, I have and it does still work. and quite often we've talked about films that you have to see in the cinema you have to see on the big screen

and then five or six months later when they come out on Blu-ray or now streaming or whatever it is and they do still work but I don't think I mean look as I think we said last week go and see it on the biggest screen that you can

I think that's the thing there isn't a rule about what that screen has to be but go and see it on the biggest screen that you can. We can because, as you said, it is kind of the definition of the cinema experience. The analogy that you use, which I've now completely adopted and used as my own, is if, you know, calling occupants from interplanetary craft

came down to Earth and said, what is this thing called cinema? You'd go, come with me. Yes. It's this. It's that. Counselor Rob Logan finally says, Dear Walter and Shed,

I'm writing to give my reflections in the rosy-fingered dawn after seeing Christopher Nolan's latest epic blockbuster at Bristol's premier cinema pub. There is a reason why this story is called The Odyssey and not that Telemachy. Very good. Yes, that's right.

After Telemachus, Odysseus's and Lady Penelope's son. Yeah, right. The scenes with Jason Bourne fighting mythical monsters are genuinely spine-chilling, those with Spider-Man whining to his mum about being bullied by Batman, a more eyelid drooping. I'm reminded of Mark's review of War Horse, Too Much Horse, Not Enough War. And it's good to see...

Did I say that? I think that's a pithy phrase, but it's not true. I don't agree with that. I mean, I'm sorry, if I said that, I don't agree with it. I don't know what I was on. Rob says, anyway, it's good to see when he's tired of both. Odysseus sets his sights, sets his sights on the far west. By my reckoning, he should be in Bristol by 2034.

Anyway, far too clever, I think. Councillor Rob Logan, thank you very much indeed. You'll be hearing from our special guest, Ace of Butterfield, and we're going to talk about our hero Balthazar in just a moment. Now streaming on Disney Plus, the Hulu original series Furious follows FBI Agent Alice Black, played by Emmy Rossum, on the hunt for a mysterious and calculating serial killer.

Both walk their own paths toward justice, and as their lives start to intertwine, the line between right and wrong begins to blur. New episodes week over week. Watch the Hulu original series Furious, now streaming only on Hulu on Disney Plus. So I guess this week is British actor Asa Butterfield. You probably saw him first in Hugo in 2011,

playing the title role in the Martin Scorsese, multiple award-winning film. The Boy in the Stripe Pajamas, Miss Peregrins, home for peculiar children, Enders Game, Nanny McPhee and the Big Bang, Merlin, and also particularly four series of Netflix international hit sex education, played Otis Milburn's son of sex advice guru Jillian Anderson.

Now he stars in Our Hero Balthazar. It had a one-day appearance in your local cinema, maybe, but it's set for a digital release. You'll hear our conversation with Asa Butterfield after this clip from the movie. What is this? You look like you needed someone. That's why you're here? Ah, Dad, I know you told me only to text you.

I've been having a hard time. Yeah, I'm gonna'all. Christ sake, Solomon. Are you a man or what? I thought if you had an IR friend, you wouldn't do it. You like that, don't you? Everyone always said I was this thing. I tried to be that thing. Locked eight folks.

Stay away in that. Try not to be that thing. Stand up! Well, not anymore! That's a clip from Our Hero Balthazar. I'm delighted to say one of its stars, Asa Butterfield, is with us. Acer, hello, how are you? Hey, guys, thanks for having me on.

I'm really well. So, introduce us to Our Hero Balthazar and also your character, Solomon. Our hero Balthazar is a very American, quite dysfunctional. you could say comedy. I think it's very funny. Other people have had a... It's an uncomfortable watch, but I think quite a necessary watch.

And it shines quite a bright light on the real, kind of unseen worlds of particularly young men in the US. My character Solomon, being one of those young men, he's from Texas, he's from East Texas,

and he's grown up in a trailer park. And the first of, film, it's these two worlds colliding, two worlds from the totally opposite ends of the spectrum in America, but they bond over this shared anger, loneliness, frustration, and they go on this kind of wild buddy trip. You're one half of this buddy situation, so you're Solomon, you're from Texas. Tell us about Balthazar, played by Jaden Martel, who's very wealthy, very entitled. called and so on, so what is it that you have in common?

The Balthyzer is another sort of lonely young man. He spends a lot of his time on the internet. They both do, and that's where they find this friendship, if you can call it a friendship. And he spends a lot of his time performing these sort of fake crying videos for attention, for social media validation, be a part of this community. And Solomon finds one of his videos and starts trolling him.

And Balthazar, through this conversation, thinks that Solomon is a school shooter. And he travels to Texas to be this hero, to be this white knight, to stop this school shooting. And you slowly start to see that his intentions might not be totally altruistic. and it's quite sinister and it's quite weird. And you realize that neither of these guys are who they claim to be and the whole thing is a bit of a performance. Despite the fact that neither of them are who they claim to be, they have this weird thing in common in their oppositeness.

So your character feels everything. He's looking after an elderly relative. He feels shunned. He feels snubbed. He feels rage. he has a father, this kind of toxic masculinity figure of a father, and he feels ashamed all the time. Balthazar's character, on the other hand, doesn't appear to feel anything at all and seems to do this thing about cry, as you said, performative crying, which, and I didn't know this before,

apparently there is a great wave of crying videos of people expressing their emotion through this. So the one thing that they're joined in is that neither of them are who they appear to be on but also they're complete opposites. One's rich, one's poor, one's from New York, one's from Texas. But the one thing that they're joined by is that they are both oppositely isolated. And they both find in each other, weirdly, this kind of strange, twisted friendship. Is that at the heart of it? Absolutely.

I think that's at the heart of it. You see this friendship form and you know, as the audience, the, these are not the people they should be looking for, yet they're brought together anyway. And you have this real sort of impending sense that this can't go well. Because as he said, Balthy is so disconnected from this sort of observer as to everything that's going on around him. And Solomon is like this case study for him. And for Solomon, he's the only friend he's ever made.

and we'll do anything to keep Balthazar around. You said he's from Texas, Aza, and the level of transformation for you felt strong. You know, it took me a while. Oh, right, it's that, okay, it's Acer. There he is, and he doesn't really look like Acer at all. This is quite a big transformation that you go through for this. It was.

It was one of the things I really was excited about this. project when I spoke with Oscar probably about, maybe almost a year before we started to shoot. That's Oscar Boyson, who's the director. That's right. Oscar Boyson, co-writer and director. And he was really excited by the idea of me playing Solomon, as was I, because it was so different from other roles I tackled, both in terms of how we looked and how we kind of moved and being from Texas, but also his kind of his rage and his frustration.

his frustration and his volatility wasn't something that I'd really got to sink my teeth into in other roles I'd had. And it's not something that I particularly as a, as As As As As As A's have a lot of experience with. So it was really interesting figuring out why I sometimes struggled to connect with those emotions and then finding Solomon's connection to those emotions. And it was it was amazing. We showed it in text. So we were surrounded by real Texans. A lot of the supporting actors in the film, non-actors, they're just people we found either in Solomon's trailer park

or in the pawn shop. And it gave me such a grounding of where he was in this place and the people he would be with. It just totally lent that energy to my performance. Can I ask you about Oscar Boyce? And so obviously known before as a longtime collaborator of the Safdi's. when you talk to him about the film,

what did Oscar tell you that it was about? Or did you discuss, because one of the things that you do as a critic, right, is that you attempt to sort of say, well, this is really what the film's about. And I think, you know, it's about loneliness and isolation and the performative echo chamber of youth culture on the internet and snake oil salesmanship,

but also it is about a country in which school shootings are absolutely epidemic. but I understand that what filmmakers think that a film may be about is often very different to the way it was received. So what did you talk to him about what the film was actually about? One of the big things for Oscar was about class and about this divide in America. He always says he thinks it's the most rich and fascinating topic in American filmmaking is class. And that was a big thing for him. He didn't want to make it sort of too black and white, but to, to have these ends of the spectrum meet in quite a sort of unusual, very unusual and chaotic way.

And this idea of one of the inspirations for him was a shooting in America, the Valdi shooter. And there was a moment online where the shooter messaged this girl in Germany that he was going to go and shoot up his school. And she replied, oh, cool. because she had no idea who this person was, if it was real, she thought he was probably just trolling them. And this idea is that young people are exposed to all these things and all this violence, whether it's real or not, and expected to, I don't know, do something about it or not, is so kind of stuff.

And that's really fascinated him. And working with Ricky, they both knew there was something there, something that hadn't really been done before. You mentioned at the beginning of our conversation day, he said that it was a very American story. And Mark has mentioned toxic masculinity, which has obviously been much debated in the last few years. We've talked about adolescence along with everybody else. But greed is international. Loneliness is international. Social media is international.

But in the American mix, you get guns. And that seems to me that, you know, we have messed up people. There are messed up people in every country, but the proximity to guns just takes the whole story to another level. So your character has edge, but the political setup, you know, the cultural setup gives it this kind of hair trigger all the way through the film. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, the common themes which are global are absolutely there. And loneliness and frustration and division are. everywhere. But this hairtrigger is a great word for it because that that tension goes

throughout the film, there's knowledge that this guy has so much access to guns and Balthazar seemingly quite likes that. It's, I mean, it's Chekhov. You know that something's there and something's coming. I've never shot a gun before until I went to Texas and we had some, they took me to a shooting range. And it's absurd how easy it is to just go there, pick up a gun and shoot some targets. And strangely, it doesn't surprise me that they're so, there's such an obsession with guns there. There's a real sense of power that you feel and fear holding a gun. And it's, you could, I can totally see why people get addicted to that and feel like it's, they're right.

The film makes very specific reference to that being an American problem. There's somebody who says, you know, I'm a specialist. I'm an international specialist in school shootings and is told, what you mean, America? I just looked at the statistics for school shootings by country for 2026. Afghanistan, 3, Nigeria, 4, Pakistan, 4, South Africa, 6, Mexico 8, United States, 288. I mean, it's just a completely different level. And one of the things that I was very interested in is the fact that that that subject is now so prevalent that it is able to be the backdrop for, you said at the beginning, it's comedy, but it's actually, you know, it's much more than that. There was a film recently called The Drama in which the idea of a school shooting was, you know, in the background of this kind of very socially anxious comedy.

I wonder how you get the tone right when you know that you're dealing with subject matter, which is so prevalent, which is absolutely everywhere, but is also so by its very nature, difficult to talk about. And when you're doing it in a way which is blackly comedic, how do you get that tone right? And did you always know that tonally the film was going to work? It's been very, very well received. But this could have gone wrong, couldn't it?

It was trust in Oscar, Oscar, Oscar Boyson and Ricky, having spoken of them on Zoom before, after I'd read the script, feeling those exact reservations that this could easily go to the wrong side of what this story's about and parody or mock or just get a totally the wrong tone. and Oscar was really, really confident and assured in what he was doing and the moments that needed the comedy and the reasons he was doing it. I think some people have compared this to adolescence and it's sort of light on young men. And what I think what I think that Arthur Rabaltza does is it really puts you in the shoes of these people. You're not really observing it from the outside. You're thrust into the sort of brains and trauma of these young men. And it doesn't paint anyone as being good or bad. It's just giving you this story.

And it's up to us as an audience to kind of do with it as we want. And when you're at the heart of this very Texas story, very American story, do you have any voices in the back of your head ace are going but i'm the kid from stoke newington you know why am i here um i think possibly at first when i was first working with a dialect coach on the accent i was like god because it's very easy to go too far with a texas accent and it become a kind of become a parody become a kind of western uh but as soon as i got there And as soon as I spent some more time in it with the character figuring him out, it felt, it strangely came quite naturally to me. And I think that was, again, just going back to being actually filming in Texas.

And the writing, having great writing to supporters and having time before we started shooting, rehearsing with Jaden and Oscar and Ricky and everyone. And Jadens, I think, phenomenal in this role. And in a lot of ways, I think Balthazar was much harder for him to get under the skin because he is so directionless, because he sort of floats through existence. Solomon's stakes and complexity and it was all there. You could see it. It was on the page. I think Jaden had to work quite a lot harder to figure out why Balthazar was doing what he did. And I think he was incredible in this role.

And having him to work alongside was, it made my job a little easier. Well, it's the most engaging film. So your performance is great. Jaden Martel is great in it. What's coming up next for you? What's coming up next? I have a TV series coming out on Disney in the UK, a comedy horror in the vein of grammar.

Except instead of gremlins, it's garden gnomes. It's very silly and it's brilliant. And it's fantastic. We shot that in Melbourne last year. What's it called? That'll be out. It's called gnomes. Of course.

Of course. So that's out in around Halloween. All right. Excellent. A. So very good to speak to you. Thank you so much for your time. And congratulations to you and your team for our hero Balthazar.

Thanks, guys. Thanks, Simon Love. Thank you. Take care. Ace of Butterfield, I don't think I've spoken to him before, but no. Very talented guy. Charming, I think, to interview. What did you make of the movie Our Hero Balthazar? Well, as you yourself said at the beginning, so it had a very, very brief blink and you'll miss it, like one day only cinema showing here, but it's on digital from the 11th. It was really fascinating to ask him what the film's about.

And I said, as a critic, I think, you know, it's about loneliness and isolation and all that stuff and school shootings and in-cell culture and online poison. What's it? You know, when you talk to your director and writer, what's it about? Class. Now, it's fascinating to me because it demonstrates, I think, quite often that things are about the things that you bring to them. And in the case of this, there is a lot of stuff going on. It was very interesting to hear that for Oscar Boyson, class was absolutely central. So the two central characters are certainly divided by class.

One of them is rich, pampered, New York, and completely unable to feel anything. Somebody who goes online and does performative crying videos because, well, it's a community, isn't it? And somehow thinks that the only way they can simulate a human relationship is by this performative crying. In fact, watching it, I was reminded of that scene. I've invoked this before in American Psycho. when Patrick Bateman basically says, if you looked at me, you'd see all these things, but actually, I'm not here. I am just a construct. I am the idea of a person. On the other side, you have the character that Ace Butterfield is playing, who feels everything, who is, you know, stressed about

looking after his grandmother, who has this incredibly toxic father, who is sort of like the trailer park version of the character that Tom Cruise plays in Magnolia, you know, a snake oil salesmen selling these testosterone enhancements, even selling them to his son, the son that he abandoned. And this person is bitter and battered and has somehow decided that the way to get around this is to invent an online persona of this person who is incredibly horrible death dealer 16. I mean, there's something that's funny even in the fact that they're death dealer 16. They're not even Death Dealer 1. They are Death Dealer 16, just one of a number of people who are taking that on as a mantle as a way of identifying

themselves. And the story is a bunch of numbers. Death deal a bunch of numbers. Precisely so. And these two characters pass cross when the rich guy from New York who is trying to impress a girl at school is trolled by the character, played by this character in Texas, and decides, I know, I will go to Texas and I will meet him and I will stop him from becoming a shooter, not because that will be a good thing because it will prevent a terrible tragedy,

but because it will impress this goal. A further demonstration of the fact that he is completely removed from reality, he has absolutely no connection to the real world. And there is also this very twisted thing that the way in which they hook up is he uses an AI version of his mum's voice to record this dirty talk message, whilst the person he's messaging sends him a picture of private parts that are not his, but are his father.

So the whole thing is this incredibly sort of twisted milieu. Neither of these people know anything about each other until they meet, and then when they meet, the thing that suddenly bonds them is that they have met in real life, and neither of them have had friends up until this point. Now, I think that one of the interesting things about the film is the whole issue of gun culture and school shootings in America, and you raised this as well, is now so prevalent that it can become the backdrop to a black comedy. I mean, I invoke the thing about the drama, which makes, you know, in which the central thing is one of the characters talks about that. And even just talking about it is the thing that sets the drama in motion.

In the case of this, it is specifically said out loud by one of the characters, this is a specific American problem because that idea, as you quite rightly said, of isolation of online trolling, of loaniness, all those things. That's absolutely international. But only in America is it happening in a milieu in which there is an absolute glorification of gun culture and there is also the availability of gun culture, which it seems to me from the outside, I don't know what this looks like from an American point of view, but from the outside, it is insane. It is absolutely insane. America's relationship with gun culture is absolutely insane. And the very fact that it can now become kind of the backdrop of something which is a black comedy, yes, a drama about other things tells you an awful lot.

And I think it's impossible to watch this film from a, from a, you know, perspective watching here across the Atlantic and not see it. I mean, they raised this in the drama as well. There's a point in the drama in which somebody says, oh, so America is to blame. To which the answer is yes. Yes, that is absolutely part of it. I think there's a lot of other things going on in it as well. I think the class thing is really important.

From the point of view of performances, when I started watching this film, you know, you said that, I think, just when we finished that interview, just when we were just ending it, talking about learning to do, to do the accent, learn to become another person, you know, inhabiting. When I first saw the character that Ace of Butterville is playing,

I didn't recognize them as being that person. I mean, I genuinely didn't. And I think that that says an awful lot. I also think it's important that the two central cast members come from complete opposite sides of the divide. But they are weirdly physically similar. I mean, yes, one of them is more bulked up than the other. But facially, it is almost like they've,

been cast because facially they are very, very similar people. And they're both in their own way in this sort of state of derangement, in this culture in which that state of derangement can become amplified manyfold. I do think it is worth addressing again, you know, we were talking about animal farm last week, that something can be comedic and horrifying at the same time. You said that your feeling was with Animal Farm, it is horrifying. And, you know, even though the story was made, you know, to be played to top-end primary school kids, that element of horror is still there. I think all the time that I was watching this, one of the things that was going on,

I mean, yes, it's about toxic masculinity and all those things in the time, but one of the things that was going on, for me, at least, was a horror, an absolute horror about the American culture that this comes from and what this has to say about that culture. Simon, did you have a similar response? When you were watching it, was part of what was going on in your mind thinking this is a very, very American story

and certainly watching it from the outside, it is a horrifying portrait of America. Oh, sure. I mean, that was, by the way, I don't, I know you called it, black comedy and other people who call it black comedy there aren't any laughs in this oh yeah no it's not it's not a laugh come no absolutely and i mean the main kind of running joke is the fact that the fake supplements which his father is selling is called thrush um which i it's like a combination of

thrill and rush and they and buy thrush you think yeah okay so fine but it is it is if it's a black comment, it's black, certainly. Yeah, no, absolutely. With not a lot of laughs. But it was, yes, so adolescence, as we mentioned a number of times, is a truly universal story. Everyone across the industrialized world will have watched that and thought, we've got that happening down the road to us.

Whereas you watch this, and as Asa said, right at the beginning of the conversation, this is a very American story. Yeah. Because it's messed up in that particular way. these guys would still be Solomon and Balthazar would still be rich and entitled and weird and Solomon would still be

the trailer park guy but they wouldn't be planning a school shootout they wouldn't be playing with guns and there's a scene in a gun shop where he wants to trade them in and the guy says no you can't because and it's all it's normal it's like I'm taking something in because

I'm going to John Lewis because my pie-fi is broken and, you know, to make it sound like it's the 1980s. But, you know, it's, it's, it, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the culture, particularly in Texas, is embedded with guns. And as Asa said, it felt, when you're there, it feels very natural. And you can carry a gun, you know, on your, on your, on your, on your, on your terrifying.

That's terrifying. That's terrifying. And it's insane. I did a whole week's worth of programs for when, uh, we were both on five live. And the idea was to explain George Bush to Texas. Back in the old days when George Bush was the, worst possible thing we could think of. Now I think of him as the good old days, a good old stable centrist, George W. Pammolot. And we had a woman who came on the show explaining why guns were

great and she had all the stats and they were all messed up stats. None of them actually worked, but they genuinely think that the way to stop these things is to give more guns out to more people. You know, and school shootings wouldn't happen if the teacher had the gun. So it's insane. So it makes it a very Texan film. even though the loneliness and toxicity is truly universal. But if you haven't seen Ace of Butterfield for a while, go see this film. I mean, I think it's genuinely fascinating film and certainly worth your time. And his performance is great, isn't it?

I mean, it is genuinely transformative. It is. And I would actually, we both plan to ask him and then we didn't because we all fell off the end. But, you know, I think they could have swapped roles. I think he could have played Balthazar. And Jaden Martel could have played in Solomon. And that would have been very, very interesting. Anyway, if you see it, let us know what you think,

correspondence atcom. As you say, Mike, it's landing on, it's a digital release, August the 11th, I believe. Let us know what you think. But anyway, after all of that, I think it's clearly time to put a smile on everyone's face. Something which is a comedy. Genuine comedy.

It's the laughter lift, everybody. Oh, dear. Hey Mark, I was up in front of the judge again this week. Now, I regularly get tickets, which I refuse to pay. I don't believe they're genuine. Sometimes I get multiple tickets for the same time frame. Your Honor, I said, 60% of these parking tickets are false and unfair. Hmm.

Repeating fractions, she said, okay, very well. I said, three-fifths of these tickets are false and unfair. I had to pay a lot on the spot there. Anyway, on the same subject, I'm looking for a new. new car at the moment, Mark. Oh, yeah? I went to the local showroom with the good lady ceramicist her indoors. As you know, she often needs to transport large quantities of high-end artistic ceramics

around. So boot size is very important. Cargo space, she said to the salesman, no dear, said the salesman patronisingly, car, no go-space, car go on road. No sale from us. Anyway, Mark, did I tell you about my pre-radio jobs? I once quit my job at the helium gas factory. I didn't like being spoken to in that tone.

Genuine comedy brought to you by a pair of comedians. Still to come, Mark's review of Spider-Man, brand new day. If he can stop laughing. Next, we have our new feature, Mark, which I know you love very much. AI don't like that. This is our latest take on the robot takeover for good or ill. And I'm not sure if you caught LBC's tech correspondent Will Gaiet on the newsagents podcast last week. I didn't. On the unprecedented cyber incident, when one of Chad GBT's AI models escaped a

controlled testing environment. Oh yes. I did reach this. Got onto the internet and hacked into another AI startup without being asked to do so. Here we go. Yeah. I've been trying to come up with a way of talking about this which doesn't sort of doom fearize or make it sound like really alarmist. But the best thing I can come up with is this is exactly what happened in 1991's Terminator 2 Judgment Day. It is essentially the rise of the machine. Great. That's not a laugh at all. No.

I was hoping that a tech correspondent might be just putting it in greater context after which we go, oh, okay, that's all right then, instead of making us run to the street shouting help. There was an awful lot of stuff on the date in which in the films, Skynet goes live. than when we actually passed the date that SkyNet went live. Everyone went, this is it, it's all happening. And now we have genuine tech correspondents telling us, yeah, no, that's not a joke. It is really happening. And worth mentioning that the company that ChatGBT's out-of-control models gained access to independently was called Hugging Face.

Nothing to worry about there, then, Mark. But I think what we say to that news is... Hey, I don't like that. You see, I'm not sure about this. About the jingle? The jingle needs to have more guts to it, I think. The idea of people sending in frequently occurring instances of the robot takeover, good or bad, is a neat idea. So there may will be some improvements, but it may well be that there are others that are sort of a bit rubbish.

So you can send them to correspondence at codemayor.com, but I think more. more work for the jingle? What do you say, Mark? Well, I mean, I quite like the fact that it sounds shonky because it sort of makes me think that it's okay. Technology is still in the shunky phase. When in fact, that's not true. The technology is now in the rise of the machines. Skynet is live. AI is breaking out of controlled experiments and hacking other thing, you know. So maybe it just reassures me if tech sounds a bit, sounds a bit odd. I did a thing just earlier this week. I had to drop in a line of comms from a documentary that I made 20 years ago. And there was a line reading that for some reason it had, it had gone wrong on the tape

they had. They said, can you just say the line again? And I said the line again, but my voice over the 20 years has changed. It's gone down. And the editor, Brian, brilliant guy, said, it's, okay, I can fix it. And he pitched shifted it up, an eighth of a tone. And it may sound 20 years younger, which was really, really weird. But then I realized that that is also, I suppose, AI going, come here. I can fix your voice and make you sound younger. Well, do you remember it was like years ago that the redactor actually, we started the show with robot versions of ourselves. He'd put our... Oh yes. He put, there was an AI me and an AIU. That's right. I'd forgotten that. Which, and it was sort of, it was rather,

that it clearly wasn't us, but it was close enough to make it feel very, very disturbing. That's right. It wasn't good, but it wasn't terrible. And the thing that was scary was that it wasn't terrible. Yeah. Well, I think that's our challenge. Let's see where we are in a few weeks time, maybe. Although I'm not sure I want to know the results. Okay, correspondence at codemoe.com. What else is out? What else is interesting? Well, you might have noticed, Simon, that there is a new Spider-Man movie coming to our screens. So it's been a little while. Spider-Man brand new day is, now, forgive me for not knowing this off the top of my head, I have to read it out. The 38th film in the MCU, the fourth film in the MCU Spider-Man film series following 2021's No Way Home,

takes its title from a 2008 comic book storyline, Brand New Day, that apparently reset the Spider-Man status quo. This is direct. directed by Destin Daniel Cratton, who made an absolutely brilliant indie pit. Well, started as a short first and then a feature, short-term 12, which was great, made the very decent Just Mercy, the very enjoyable Shangxi and the Legend of the 12 Rings, to which this is kind of connected. This is written by Chris McKenna and Eric Summers. So Tom Holland, aka, is it, now, telemacus, telemachus, how'd you pronounce it?

Telemachus, probably. Telemachus. Okay. So Tom Holland, aka Telemachus, is back as Peter Parker, alongside Zendaya, aka Athena, as MJ. Yes. And also back, John Bernthal, aka King of Sparta, as Frank, aka the Punisher. So basically, it's an Odyssey cast reunion. Although, whilst the Odyssey, we've had this discussion about the Odyssey being released in iMacs in the shot in the iMacs format shot for iMacs um this is being released in screen x now are you aware of screen x uh i think i've heard it reference but i look forward to your

explanation okay so this is the first film to be shot specifically for the screen x format shot it's on the shot for screen x program it is a panoramic film format which presents film with an expanded, dual-sided, 270-degree screen projected on the walls of the theatre. So essentially, you've got your central screen, and then you've got two sizes. So I suppose kind of not dissimilar to what used to be. Well, it is dissimilar because it's not the same world, but cinnorama, you know, which used to be kind of like all the way around. Apparently, this format is available in 22 Cine World sites around the UK.

I haven't seen it. But when I went to see the film at the premonet, press screening on Tuesday morning. I was talking to, there was a guy there from Dolby and there was another tech guy and I just fell into conversation with him and he said, oh yeah, well, the other day we were just doing one of the screen X things. I said, oh, I haven't seen it. What's it like? And he said, well, it's literally like this is a good thing. And then I saw a video. There is a video if you go to the Cine World site, you can see it. It's the main screen and then, and then around sort of looks like an immersive thing. Anyway, for the record, that's the

format that this is being released in. So film also features, well, a number of record. I'm very, what I'm going to try not to do is not do anything that's spoilery. Because again, at the beginning of this, they stood up and they said, don't let there be any, please, in your reviews, don't let be any spoilers. The problem is, I'm never sure what constitutes a plot spoiler anymore. Like, for example, in the trailer, we see that Mark Ruffalo is in the film. And somebody said, oh, well, you're not supposed to say, but it's in the trailer.

So anyway. I think that's fair. If it's in the trailer, no one can complain. That's what I think. So Tom Holland had previously said that No Way Home was the perfect send-off for his incarnation of Spider-Man. He also said that he thought there would be something odd about him still playing the Spider-Man role in his 30s. Well, he is now 30, but he is now back in what has been flagged as being planned to be the first in a new Spider-Man trilogy. So the official setup, in order to not give any plot spoilers, this is how the film is set.

up in the publicity, okay? So following Dr. Stephen Strange's spell at the end of Spider-Man No Way Home, you'll remember what happens at the end of No Way Home, the world in general, but Ned and MJ in particular have forgotten that Peter Parker exists, okay, because he has to wipe the memory, he had to wipe his memory from them, which is a great personal sacrifice in order to bring that story to a conclusion. Now four years later, he is Spider-Man, once again, anonymous. His identity is hidden.

People don't know who he is. Although he does have a note on which he's written something that he longs to be able to say out loud. Here is a clip from the trailer. Hi, my name is Peter Parker. You don't remember me, but we used to know each other. Something bad was going to happen, and the only way to stop it was to make everyone forget about me.

Because I'm not just Peter Parker. I'm Spider-Man. And sometimes Spider-Man has to do the hard thing, even if it breaks Peter Parker's heart. So in a way, that's kind of the center of it. I mean, on one level, it is a return to a theme that's always been at the heart of superhero stories, but particularly at the heart of the Spider-Man story, which is that of loneliness, that idea that, you know, with great power, not just great responsibility, but great loss comes, the need to put yourself aside for the greater good, as they would say in hot fires,

which we'll get to, internet in take two. And I think in the previous Spider-Ban movies, We saw this most clearly in Spider-Man 2, the Sam Ramey Spider-Man 2, which included a very direct nod to the comic strip Spider-Man No More series. You know, Peter Parker attempting to turn his back on the Spider-Man identity in order to reclaim himself to get his life back, to get his childhood back. But if in those earlier films, there was this whole thing going on about the web spinning and the sticky substances and the goo were sort of all a bit kind of,

yeah, well, this is kind of metaphorical, you know, becoming a teenager. Now that kid is turning into an adult, like not an adolescent, but an adult. And his body is behaving in a manner that evokes. Do you remember that the line from the fly, the Jeff Goldblum film, in which Jeff Goldblum says, I'm an insect who dreamed he was a man and loved it, but now the dream is over and the insect is awake. So that is happening. Basically, his arachnid side is becoming more irachnid, and now he needs inhibitors. to prevent further changes.

And there was an interview with Michael Jekino, the composer, who said that when he was doing the score for this, this is a good score. I mean, he always is, he's a very good composer. He said, when he was doing the score for this, he deliberately took certain notes out of the score, certain themes that are from the kind of, you know, the spider legacy in order to represent pulling away pieces of his life,

things that he doesn't have anymore. Meanwhile, as far as the wider plot is concerned, and I'm just going to gesture towards the wider. a plot because I don't want to spoil anything for anybody. There is a central unfolding mystery, which essentially involves a body hopping villain, meaning a spirit that leaped from one body to another very much in the manner of, and I'm very glad to be able to get this in. Exorcist 3, the heretic in which the Gemini killer, who is in a prison, manages to, the spirit of the Gemini moves from one body to another. And in fact, in the case of this, it is very specifically referred to

as being, well, pretty much possession, okay? There's also a new nemesis who, as always is the case with these things. It's the backstory that nobody is singly bad. In fact, what you find out is that most people are the victims of circumstance and loneliness. So, fine, that's it. That's all the gesturing of the plot I'm going to do. For me, the most interesting stuff in this movie is the character stuff. there is a really lovely idea about the awfulness of meeting a friend or a loved one who simply

doesn't remember you because that's been blanked. I mean, it's like a kind of one-sided eternal sunshine of the spotless mind. You remember the whole thing in eternal sunshine and spotless mind, which is the idea that the only way that you can get over a relationship is that you blank your own memory of it. But like the inverse of that is the other person has done it and you, or you did it to the other person, they don't know who you are. And I think there is a, there is real chemistry between the central characters. I mean, two of whom, of course, have genuine real chemistry in the real world. But that idea about Peter and MJ and they were this group and now they're not,

and he's outside and he's watching them and he's watching their lives go on, knowing that he's had to take himself out of it. and he desperately wants to kind of reconnect, but he can't. For me, that's the most interesting stuff. And honestly, I could have done with more of that because when it's there, it's really, really good. However, this being a franchise superhero movie, you do have to have an increasingly huge amount of smashy, bashy,

swingy-bingy, swoopy-doopee, flyy stuff. My feeling with all that stuff is the bigger it gets, the more inconsequential it gets. And in fact, in terms of this, all the best action stuff is the stuff that feels physical. So there's some kind of Wushu, you know, anti-gravity, runy-jumping martial arts. You know, ninja kung fu, you know, martial arts, basically. But there's stuff when it's possible for people to run up the side of walls in a way that you couldn't do in real life, but you can do in films.

And those sequences work really well, but largely because the director really seems to enjoy the physical choreography. And we've seen that before in his previous work. The film is 145 minutes long. Okay, so that means it's only a few minutes shorter than 2001, which is the great yardstick. I honestly think it doesn't need to be that long. I do think that it could, again, as I'm saying this about The Odyssey, it could lose 20 minutes. As I said with the Odyssey, the problem is if you say, well, the Odyssey can lose 25 minutes ago, okay, which 25 minutes? That's hard.

In the case of this, the problem is, if you lost 25 minutes, you know that what they would lose is 25 minutes of character stuff, which is all the stuff I like. Because obviously from the studio's point of view, the last thing you want to lose is the big smashy-bashy, you know, swingy-bingy stuff. As it was, during some of the bigger action sequences, I really did drift in and out.

And I also drifted in and out in terms of my interest in the exposition of the plot, which is always the kind of least interesting thing, because what the plot needs to do is to tie it into a wider expansion. of universe that I'm not emotionally engaged with. The time that I got really engaged is when the three main characters are sitting around in a room building Star Wars Lego figures and just being together and sort of rediscovering a friendship that they've forgotten about. There is a great performance, I think, by Sadie Singh, who people will know from Stranger Things in a role,

which again, less said about the better because it's nice for it to be, you know, allow it to, allow the audience to find that. I mean, I know that an awful lot of fans will know this stuff already. But it's interesting because that character, it's not just that the character has got an interesting backstory dynamic, but also is the character that seems the most genuinely desperate. And with all of these things, there is an element of desperation. How can, how can I deal with the world when all, when this is, this is my experience of it? This is my loneliness, this is my isolation. I mean, overall, considering that I thought that we had had a pretty good end to the series,

we are back in a situation in which there is never an end to anything, in which everything will always restart again. And we're also in a world in which the Spider-Verse movies sort of changed the game so much that what animation was doing changed the game so much that it feels, I don't, you know, do we need to be back here? But if we are going to be back here and we are, this is much better than one might have, might have feared. Because, I mean, yes, it's too long.

Yes, it's too smashy-bashy, crashy for me. But the bits of it that work work because they work on a genuine, you know, emotional level that you do believe that that, the center of the thing is my friends don't remember me, and I have to live in a world in which I can't tell them who I am. And meanwhile, all this other stuff is going on. So yes, too long, yes, too loud, but generally pretty engaging.

And as you've probably seen, the responses seem to be pretty positive. It looks like it is on course to pack cinemas out. And considering where we might have been with this kind of reboot, that's a pretty solid recommendation. And you have a couple of stars at the heart of it, from what you were saying, who could open a film on their own. So that's a big deal.

Yes, yes, you do. And also who seem to have genuinely committed to these roles which they have played, you know, and really, I mean, there's a, there's a, there's a lovely, um, uh, relationship between Peter Parker and Franklin by John Bothel, who, who, who, they got this kind of, of this fighty kind of bromancy, aggressive, oh, I really hate you, but I don't really. I kind of of really love you. Actually, that's one of the nicest things about the film is that that relationship works really well. In fact, there's one sequence in it, in which it works really well, despite the

fact that it's happening in the middle of one of the biggest smashy, bashy, crashy sequences. And you think the fact that the characters are managing to shine through, even when all that other stuff is happening, is a kind of indication that there is some genuine substance underneath it all. Spider-Man brand new day, correspondence at Kodemur.com. Thank you very much indeed for being here, Mark, and joining us from France. Well, thank you. Thank you for having me, I think. Yes.

On your own podcast. Yes. Before we're done, we have a quick waltz on. This is Philip Thorne with an interesting sounding project. Basically, this is where we say, if there's something cinema or cinema adjacent close to you and you want to get on the pod, then just send. send us a voice note or film yourself doing it, that's fine. Philip Thorne has an interesting sounding project on the Thames in London. Theatre ship is a historic cargo barge that has been lovingly restored and turned into a live performance venue and cinema.

We're going to be screening a folk horror project there called Delivery After Dark, which is set in the North York Moors. It's something new. We're calling it an audio movie. It's something between film and audio drama. If you're a fan of adventurous micro-budget horror or if you simply want to experience this unique venue, come join us aboard Theatreship on the 5th or 6th of August. All right, Philip, thank you. This is 5th or 6th of August. Tickets of 5 quid. You can find out more at Theatyship.com. UK. Or you can see the show notes because we'll put all the links. In there, that's it for this week. This has been a Sony music entertainment production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh and Heather. Producer was Dom. The redactor was the arriving late Simon Poole.

In Take 2, we're directing you to the Overflow Car Park for more chat about current film releases. And if you've enjoyed what you've heard so far, there is plenty more waiting for you over in Take 2, such as Five Question Film Club. Three questions, Your Majesty. And questions, Schmestians, in which this week we're asked,

amongst other things, which films seem to have started out as the first in a franchise, but failed hard. And don't forget, people of Bristol and beyond, we'll be at the Brazil Beacon on December the 6th. Tickets are on sale via the link in the show notes again. You can get both takes ad-free.

You just search Kermit and Mayo, Patreon, and you join the church. Mark, what is your film of the week? My film of the week, and I guarantee you it's going to be one of my films of the year when we get to the end of the year is is ish. Believe me, it is really worth checking out. It's remarkable.

We're back next week with Tyco, Wittiti. And I'm going to bestow a year's ultra membership to our correspondent of the week. I think I just made a note of Obie, who was the guy who told us, he's the refugee from London claiming asylum in Gateshead. Excellent. Who went to see The Odyssey on just a normal screen and said it's great. So in terms of setting, because there is so much pressure on the seats and you can't really get in until Christmas to see this thing, that it's an enormous, it's a great relief if you can just. go to your local cinema that's showing it on screen one and two or whatever and still have a good time. So, Obie, thank you very much indeed.

We will be in touch with all our generosity and you'll be very grateful, I'm sure. And don't forget kids, go woke, get rich. That does seem to be the message of this year. Thank you very much, Steve, for listening. Take two has landed just not far from this one.