Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Hello to Jason Isaacs! In The Salt Path

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

Vanguardistas have more fun—so if you don’t already subscribe to the podcast, join the Vanguard today via Apple Podcasts or extratakes.com for non-fruit-related devices. In return you’ll get a whole extra Take 2 alongside Take 1 every week, with bonus reviews, more viewing recommendations from the Good Doctors and whole bonus episodes just for you. And if you’re already a Vanguardista, we salute you. It’s time for another of those very special episodes where we all get to say “hello” to one of our very favourite friends of the show in the actual flesh (or whatever the audio equivalent of that is...). You guessed it, our guest this week is the one and only Jason Isaacs. He drops in for a chat with both Simon and Mark about ‘The Salt Path’—a seriously inspirational film that sees him walk the South West Coast Path in a journey of massive resilience and self-discovery alongside Gillian Anderson. They play the real-life couple Moth and Raynor Winn, who walked the path after losing their home and livelihood, and wrote the bestselling memoir on which the film is based. It’s a seriously meaty chat and Jason is on top form—you don’t want to miss it. Mark reviews it too, plus two more big releases this week. We’ve got ‘Karate Kid: Legends’, the high-kicking and wholesome latest in the Kung Fu franchise, starring Jackie Chan—and ‘The Ritual’--an exorcism horror with a demon-ousting Priest played by... Al Pacino??? This one sounds like Kermode catnip, so listen in and say your prayers for a rant or a redemption. Simon is back this week too, so expect bumper banter from the Good Doctors. Timecodes (for Vanguardistas listening ad-free): Karate Kid: Legends: 08:06 Jason Isaacs Interview: 30:18 The Salt Path Review: 48:20 The Ritual Review: 58:35 You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo Please take our survey and help shape the future of our show: https://www.kermodeandmayo.com/survey EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] And to find out more about Sony’s new show Origins with Cush Jumbo, click here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguard Easter and get an extra episode every Thursday. Including bonus reviews, extra viewing suggestions, viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas, plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in Questions Shmessions. You can get all that extra stuff via Apple Podcasts or head to ExtraT takes.com for non fruit related devices. There's never been a better time to become a Vanguard Easter. Free offer now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter, we salute you. So I hadn't, hello by the way, I hadn't stayed in a long stay car park for a while, as in my car.

I hadn't parked a car in a long stay car park. You're not meant to stay in it yourself, it's the cars meant to stay in it. Obviously, yes, I realized that. So I went to Copenhagen to meet, on, uh, to meet Grandchild too. He's doing very well. How was that? Yeah, that was, that was great. I've been so many pastries. Oh my goodness me. Um, I didn't get to Juno bakery, but it was very, anyway. So we came up from Dorset cause we've been staying in Dorset, go in the long stay car park at Heathrow, go to Copenhagen and come back, travel back, get to the long stay car park. And you know when you pay

for a multi-storey or something like that, you put your credit card in and it says like £7.50 or nine quid or £21. It's never said £7.50. Well, this one said £238. Oh, right. Okay. I remember why I don't do this. It would be cheaper to have a chauffeur. The trick is you book it in advance. You go online and book it in advance and you always get the better rates.

The good lady professor who are indoors is just an absolute demon with all this. If we're going somewhere, you get online, book the thing in advance. So you never have that, you owe me the price of your car. Yes. And as you say, you might as well have been chauffeured here. This show is brought to you by Longstay Car Parking with top advice from the good lady professor at her indoors. Go online and book it cheaper. So how much cheaper would it have been then? 228 quid? Yeah, no, it wouldn't have been 28 quid, but it would have been 100 quid as opposed to 200. How

long were you away for? Six days. Yeah. I mean, you know, it would have been considerably cheaper than what you paid for it. You know, you have to just do it. Incidentally, there's a thing doing the rounds at the moment on the Intraweb that's been sent to me by three different people. Have you seen this? Dick Emery is the drunk owner of the car who get this. There's a, there's a car, there's a posh old car and Dick Emery in his posh guy thing is standing by the side of it, looking completely razzed. Anyway, these two policemen come up to him and they go, is this your guy?

I guess he's had an ears. They says, have you been drinking? I certainly have. You know, would you blow into this balloon? Ooh, balloons, parties. And he blows into the balloon. It's like a million on the scale. And he says, well, sir, you're going to have to, you know,

come with us to the police station. He goes, oh, off to the jolly old Nick, is it marvelous? And one of the police officers gets into the car. He says, I'll drive ahead. You know, you come behind me. And the police officer says to him, right, get in the car, sir, you know, get in the back. And then the policeman starts to get in the front and

she goes, where's my chauffeur going to sit? And then the chauffeur comes out of the woods after having had a week and gets in the car and drives off. Very good. Classic television from the 1970s, explained by Professor Mark Kerr. Yes, but explained on the radio. Sorry, thank you very much. Talk us through the sketch. It was funny though. One more time. thank you very much. Talk us through the sketch. It was funny though. Obviously it just turned up on one of the, what is it called? Instagram? Turned up on Instagram. And then somebody must have liked it or I must have, I don't know what it was. I don't know, because suddenly people keep saying, I got three separate people saying, have you seen this? What are you going to be reviewing this week? It's an absolutely packed show. We have a Karate Kid Legends, which is, as you can probably tell, the new Karate Kid

film. We have The Ritual, which stars Al Pacino as an exorcist. And we have the True Story, The Salt Path, with the most special of guests. Yeah. Well, it's, hang on. It's that guy. Went to school with? Jeremy Irons.

Jeremy Irons. Jeremy Irons. That's it. Jeremy Irons, Isaacs, will be with us a little later on. And in our bonus section for the Vanguard, what are you going to be doing there? Well, this is one of the weeks in which I'd say if you're not a Vanguard Easter, you really have to be because actually some of the bigger reviews are in there. So the Ballad of Wallace Island, which you've probably heard about, Along Came Love, which you may not have heard about,

and The World Will Tremble, which you will want to have heard about. Plus all the extra stuff you know about every Thursday, and indeed the whole back catalog of bonus joy is available if you become a Vanguard Easter, and think of the joy and glory that will be following you around once everyone knows that you are a subscriber,

because there is just like a ready break glow that surrounds you. And as you go down the street, people go, he has the kind of the, he's walking as though he's a take two listener because it does affect everything. I think that's all scientifically proven. Here's an email from Professor Brainstorm. That's how it's signed. Dear Boromir and Faromir, Professor Brainstorm is possessor of Latin and Greek A and S levels, and that's why he writes

thus. Or it could be she, to be honest. A couple of weeks ago, your unhappiness with Tolkien's invented word, eucatastrophe. We were talking about invented words, and this is Tolkien's, it's the opposite of a catastrophe by sticking EU at the front, but you still have to say you catastrophe and everyone goes, what's that? And then you've explained it by which time the world has moved on. While I agree, says the good professor, that it's an uncomfortable construction, I can at least explain why he used EU as a prefix. In Greek, EU means good or well. So clearly he was trying to turn catastrophe inside out. Obviously the Farajists will complain about this bit, but we're just using EU as two

letters as opposed to the European Union. The word catastrophe itself is a combination of cata and stroph. Cata meaning, among other things, and stroph, meaning turn. In other words, it's a downturn and was originally used to describe the ending of a play where things go wrong, such as Hamlet, for example. So the opposite of a catastrophe would more properly be a happy ending or to be fully Greek, an anostrophe, an upturn as opposed to a downturn, still not very catchy. I can't imagine you, Mark, saying this movie is a perfect an-ost-ro-fee. No, it's not going to happen. Not going to happen. Incidentally, could we describe the

Orange Cheeseburger's decision to accept a large plane as a cat-a-stro-fee? Hey! That works. Yeah, that works anyway I will happy endings and now with downturns professor brainstorm PS, there is already a word for the positive opposite of Schadenfreude. The word is mudita and it means taking pleasure in someone else's success. Okay. That's M U D I T A taking pleasure in someone else's success. Who knew I didn't, but this show aims to please and educate. And just so you know, because you've now said it several times, you know happy ending means

something else as well. Yes. Yes, yes. I do. There's also a very, very good dessert company called Happy Ending, run by someone who I know very well and works perfectly, Don't you think? Make the best ice cream. If you see some, if you see happy endings making your pudding, you should ask for and look out for happy endings. I mean, I'm not sure you should look them up online, but they have a very good menu of very excellent puddings. Next time you come around, I'm going to offer you an ice cream and say,

I got this from Sainsbury's. Just to be absolutely clear. Will Barron Okay. Fine. Karate Kid Legends, which is the new film in the Karate Kid franchise, which of course began way back when this follows on from the 2010 reboot with Jaden Smith and Jackie Chan and is set after the events of the TV series Copper Carp. I've seen all the films. after the events of the TV series Cobra Carp. I've seen all the films. I haven't seen the TV series. The original starred Pat Morita and Ralph Macchio as teacher and student.

This time, Ben Wang is the young man who needs training. He is Lee. He comes to New York from Beijing with his mother following the death of his brother. His mom has made him promise not to fight, even though he is clearly very good at it. But he meets up with Sadie Sunny's Mia, who lives just next door, and her dad runs the pizza place. Turns out her dad was a fighter,

but he turned his back on it. He walked away from being a fighter. Now he is in hock to loan sharks who turn up making threatening noises about, you know, when you're going to give us some money, you owe us, or in American accent, obviously. So he needs money and he finds out that Lee actually has martial arts skills. So he asks Lee to train him. Meanwhile, the daughter's ex, Connor Day, beats Lee up. The only way to get his own back on the beating up

and to solve his friend's financial problems, I know it sounds a bit convoluted, is to compete in and win the five boroughs fights with a little help from his old teacher, Jackie Chan. And the student who started all this stuff all those years ago hears a clip from the trailer. help from his old teacher Jackie Chan and the student who started all this stuff all those years ago hears a clip from the trailer. I did not come looking for Shinsemi Aki. I came looking for you. He spent the whole night

talking about you. The boy who put purpose in his life. I appreciate you coming all this way Mr. Han, but my life now, I can't just pack up and head to New York. I mean, there's plenty of good dojos. I want Lee to learn Miyake karate. Lee means to me what you meant to Sensei Miyake. I'm sorry, Mr. Han. I wish I could help you. You will. I see you in. You will.

I see you in the Big Apple. As a clip rather than clip from the trailer, my error, which is a nice scene. So anyway, look, and of course he will see him in the Big Apple because the story beats are, you know, as broad as Broadway and you can pretty much plot out the film from the outset. But here's the thing, I had the morning from hell on Tuesday getting into London, it was power outages in Southampton, my train was two and a half hours late, it was, you know, and it

was by the time I got to the screening. And in fact, actually they had to start the screening slightly late because I was, I was late. I was not in the best of moods. By the time I came out of the screening, you know, 90, 100 minutes later, I was in the best of moods. By the time I came out of the screening, 90, 100 minutes later, I was in the best of moods. The reason is this. There's nothing about this film that's going to change the world. There's nothing about it that's radical or reinvented. Firstly, I love the kung fu karate training and fight scenes. The whole thing, and this is true of the whole Karate Kid series pretty much, is played with an air of wholesomeness that is fairly irresistible. I went in feeling grumpy

as all heck. I came out with a spring in my step and at the end, when the thing did the surgy thing, I cried. And I cried in that happy, I like being in the cinema and I like the cinema provoking all these emotions and I know some of it is completely mechanical, but I don't care. It's nippily directed. It's got enough flashy panache to win over new audiences, but it also has the physicality that you want for the fight sequences. I mean, it's a 12A certificate and the BBFC say moderate violence, injury detail, and language. But it's pretty much family fair. I remember going to see the previous one with Child 2 and really enjoying it. I remember seeing the original when it came out. I mean, the thing is the Karate Kid franchise is the Karate Kid franchise.

I just thought it was done really solidly and I laughed at three or four jokes. There was somebody else in the screening who was enjoying it as much as I was. There were a couple of jokes that are actually very, very funny. The fight sequences, you know what's going to happen, but it doesn't make any difference because the fight sequences play out really well. Like I said, there is this weirdly just wholesome air to the whole thing. And it does exactly what it says on the packet. It takes the karate kid thing.

It says, okay, next generation, next generation moves it on. I enjoyed it enormously. I enjoyed it enormously. I enjoyed it enormously. Believe me, I was in a foul mood when I arrived. Yeah. It has restorative powers. It's very interesting because you would think if there's anything niggly about this film, your mood would have magnified that. But instead, it cast a spell over you. Precisely. In fact, last week I was having a discussion with Ben in your absence about

how my teeth have been put on edge by the Phoenician scheme. He had snubbed me at the And in fact, last week I was having a discussion with Ben about, in your absence, about how, you know, I, my teeth have been put on edge by the Phoenician scheme and he had snubbed me at the beginning of the screening. So I was in a, I was in a huffy mood anyway. And there was a question about whether or not that huffy mood then transferred into the screening. But no, what this demonstrates is believe me, I was in the foulest of foul moods and I'd been rained on. And I'd been standing up on a train that was two and a half hours late, several trains altogether. And I sat down and the film started and I thought that's it, I'm in, I'm in. And then they started doing the fighty fighty

punchy punchy stuff, which I really, really liked. And it's the on-coat off stuff, which I really, really liked. And then Jackie Chan, I mean, you only have to look at Jackie Chan's face and the whole world lights up. And anyway, I enjoyed it. Box office top 10 this week at number red delicious Gala Granny Smith for a fountain of youth. Simon and Mark Laura Welsh says we were looking for something to watch on Saturday night after a long day. We didn't fancy three hours of mission impossible.

So we flopped on the sofa with fountain of youth. And you know what? We really enjoyed it. Yes. It's a mishmash of Indiana Jones, remancing the stone, the Da Vinci Code, and it's definitely 20 minutes too long, but it easily passed the six-laugh test, was pretty exciting, and the chase and action sequences were great. They'd obviously thrown money at it, and it shows. I mean, who doesn't love art, history, secret codes, genius kid, car chases, sweeping global shots,

and a grand finale at the pyramids. It just takes all the boxes for a chewing gum for the eyes, Saturday night on the sofa with a beer and a bar of fruit and nut. Also, says Laura, it would be a great film to watch with teenage children. It's a 12a for a family movie night. And other than Marvel, it's becoming harder and harder to find films that fit that brief. So I'd really recommend people who like that kind of thing to give it a try despite the reviews. I just can't get out of my head the thought that John Krasinski looks exactly like Arthur Christmas,

Tinkety Tonk and all that. And it's true, you're right Laura, a number of people do say, what comes up periodically? What films can I watch with elder kids that's not gonna be embarrassing, et cetera, et cetera, well, it sounds as though Fountain of Youth is definitely one of those films. Well, there was a rhetorical question which was,

and who doesn't like this list of things? Answer me. I mean, I thought it was rubbish. I thought it was more. I mean, I'm pleased that you enjoyed it. You're absolutely right about there being fewer and fewer films and it's possible to have that experience with. I think this just felt like why am I not watching Indiana Jones? Why am I not watching Romancing the Stone? Oh blimey, we're doing the Da Vinci Code. Look at this painting. Everyone's, it's all pointing to a stellar constellation thing. I mean, it, it, it, it, it costs a hundred

million dollars and it's straight to streaming and it's, I don't know that, as I said, Dexter Fletcher was originally going to do it. I don't know that he would have made a much better job than Guy Ritchie because I think the script is all over the shop. But, but, but I'm glad that you enjoyed it. And I liked the idea of the fabulous Saturday night being a bar of fruit and a can of Tenon sauce. Yeah. Yeah. That's not a perfect Saturday night. Anyway, at number WR26BY, Hello Road, Mark and Simon. This is from Claire. Longtime listener, occasional emailer.

I was at the BFI last week for Mark's onstage interview with Babak Anvari about his new film Hello Road. The rave reviews and Mark's Instagram DM slide, check you out, story really intrigued me. So this morning I made a trip to my local multiplex to catch it. On the way, I somehow managed to injure my leg. Oh, I'm so sorry. No dramatic story, but it hurt a lot. And I intend to sue Mark. I've just had it at the beginning. But I figured it was better off sinking into the soft seats of the cinema

than trying to negotiate my way home. So I hobbled in, got a coffee and settled down. Here's my review. Hallow Road is so gripping, so absorbing that I didn't think about my throbbing cough once. Not once. I was totally captured from start to finish. The performances and atmosphere created within just the car. It was a masterclass. I left the cinema hobbling, went straight to get some prescription strength painkillers and promptly canceled the rest of my weekend plans to nurse my leg, but was it worth it? Absolutely. What a film. I can't stop thinking about the ending. Thanks as ever to Mark for championing films like this, even if it occasionally leads to minor personal injury for which I intend

to sue Marlowe for every cent that he's worth. I'm just adding that. I'm really glad. Again, but that is a perfect thing. The film was so good, I didn't think about the pain in my leg. That's the demonstration that a film is really working. Again, a film that cast its spell, as Karate Kid did for you. Cast its spell. Yes. Number 10 is Narivetta.

Okay, so Narivetta, unfortunately, was not press screened. So Indian Malay language action drama film based on the 2003 Mithanga incident. If anyone's seen it, let us know. As I said, it wasn't press screened. All right. So it's not Naravetta. Are you better? Are you well, well, well by fame and price? It's not that one. It's not that one. I haven't seen it. So I don't know. I mean, maybe it is. Again, I await correspondence. It would be unlikely. Number nine, Bluey at the cinema. Let's play chef collection. Not

cinema, really. So, but it is a collection of television episodes and blah blah blah. Exactly. But we welcome it and if it's bringing people into the cinema then good for it. Number eight is Ocean with David Attenborough. So this is third week in the chart still in the top 10, so it's done very, very well for a documentary. The spectacular photography that you would expect, but the most important thing is that

David Attenborough is telling this story about this is a terrible thing that is happening, but there is a great opportunity to be grasped if we act now. And this is what he does. He wants you to be alarmed, but he also wants you to be invigorated with the possibility that we can turn this around. He's sort of Ridley Scott, isn't he? He's speeding up. He feels as though he's lived a grand old life and he wants to get on with telling more stories and reaching more people. Well, the reason he isn't Ridley Scott is that David Attenborough seems to become more avuncular and more generous of spirit as he gets older. And I don't think you could say that about Sir Ridley Diddley.

No, I was just thinking about sort of rate of output, you know, that kind of thing. Number seven is a Minecraft movie. Well, it's still there. You know, it's all right. It's Jack Black. It's a Jack Black film that happens to take place in the Minecraft universe. And I think that the correspondence we had from people who were dealing with the cinema behaviour was troubling, but it's done very well. Yes, and cinemas will be grateful for it. Sinners at number six?

Which I really enjoyed, and great to see something which is a completely new property do this well. As I keep saying every week, it's to do with the fact that the music tells the story, so the storytelling is done in a way which isn't just characters explaining the plot to each other. I really like it and I think it's very good that it's done as well as it has. Number five, Thunderbolts and Lightning, very, very frightening me, Galileo. Yes, Thunderbolts, asterisk because it's now New Avengers. As I said last week, I didn't get much out of this, but we have had some very interesting correspondence from people who did, and specifically people who have experienced loneliness and isolation who saw in the film a reflection of their own turmoil.

I think that just shows you that in the end, the way in which cinema speaks to people is very, very individual. And I'm just delighted that anyone has taken that away from it. And number four is the Phoenician scheme. This is what I was just saying earlier on about the question is, did the Phoenician scheme hit me the wrong way? Because Ben Bailey Smith had snubbed me before the screening, although he insisted it was completely accidental and he didn't know I was there. screening although he insisted it was completely accidental and he didn't know I was there. I think that in the end Wes Anderson films are all on a knife edge and they can go one way or the other. For me this went the other way. When I like Wes Anderson, Grand Budapest

which I really, really like and you know Isle of Dogs which I really like. When I like his stuff I really like it and when I don't like it, it greats. Mia Threppleton is very, very good. Benicio del Toro is, well, he's Benicio del Toro. But it's how much more Wes Anderson could it be? None, none more Wes Anderson. And it was too much Wes Anderson for me. An email from Samuel Barber, but presumably not the dead American composer.

Dear Zaza and Corda, I'm always a bit surprised when a new Wes Anderson film comes out and received coldly because I've never really got the criticisms of his work. I thought Asteroid City was one of his best and the Phoenician scheme isn't too far behind. While I can see how the style can be grating, personally, I just think it's a beautiful thing that someone with such a distinct artistic image can still be making movies in this era of homogenised corporate nonsense. I'd also like to stick up for Fantastic Mr Fox a little. As someone who first saw it as

a kid, I thought and still think it's brilliant. Thanks for your excellent show and hello to Jason Isaacs who will be with us very shortly. But that's the Phoenician scheme at number four. Number three is Final Destination colon bloodlines. And as many critics I think have now said, we were all surprised how good it was. It is one of the one of the best of the Final Destination films. It was surprisingly in the same way, well, Karate Kid I kind of thought actually might be, but Final Destination bloodlines was much better than I expected it to be, and that was a real pleasant surprise. Number two is Mission Impossible The Final Reckoning. So shall I do some emails here? Yes, go ahead. So this is from Liz H in Santa Barbara. I have loved Mission Impossible,

even back to the TV days, but I think this may be its final reckoning. This installment begins with a montage reminding us how awesome and self-sacrificing Ethan Hunt is, which is the film's first uncool move. This kind of overexposition is a mind-numbing hallmark of the entire film. In fact, the movie has so much explanation of inscrutable gadgetry saving the day, if only timed correctly, I gave up on the plot after 20 minutes. What was crystal clear though, one might even say drummed into my head was that the stakes were beyond enormous. Shots of nuclear arsenals, the unaging beautiful face of President Angela Bassett,

would that it were, under extreme world enduring stress, the entity, which is chatGBT gone rogue, is up for grabs among the world's villains. Top of the list played by Si Morales, who tips off his villainy with muhahaha during an airborne stunt riddled flight sequence. And about those stunt sequences, is this an Emperor Has No Clothes situation? Will no one remind Tom and director Chris McQuarrie that for stunts to be engaging, they must be economically integrated into emotionally involving storylines. Mission Impossible's films have already lowered the bar

on this and it's worked out great with the minimums, but the bar can't be zero. The film is completely consumed by very long action sequences that throttle up to 12 and just stay there. Tension requires lulls and inclines. That's a summarized version. Matt in Wingrave, thank you, Mark, for your review of Mission Impossible, The Final Reckoning, in which you asked, why did we have to have all that exposition? I'm writing to offer one possible purpose. It was added for Mission Impossible virgins like me. There is something about film franchises that can actually put off people who haven't seen every film since the beginning. Some of us, for example,

are even terrified to start watching Star Wars so late in the day because we fear we lack sufficient backstory to understand all the in-jokes, the cultural context, or even, and I know enough to know I'm opening a can of worms here, which order to see them in. So I'm pretty sure that I thoroughly enjoyed the final reckoning last night, precisely because that extended opening sequence brought me up to speed, not just with Dead Reckoning, but also with the entire Mission Impossible universe, whatever it's called. It gave me context, explained some rivalries, and even added to the emotional heft with the reappearance of certain characters. And now that Chris McQuarrie has opened a

portal for me too to hold my breath at the audacious stunts, not only do I feel part of the gang, but I also feel motivated to watch the earlier films. So down with world dominating baddies and up with directors wise and generous enough to make a franchise film for fanatics and newbies alike. Okay, I mean, what I would say is the problem with that opening, I mean, obviously in your particular case, you found it helpful because it gave you a lot of information. The problem with it is it's badly done. It is very, very badly paced and it's not, it doesn't work for people who have seen the other films. You could have done all of that

in a much, much more abridged form. And you don't need the messianic nonsense, which is hooey and gets in the way of the fact that we're going to have a fabulous scene in a submarine and a fabulous scene in a biplane. I have spoken now, I was wrong when I said something. I said, no one is going to come out of this film saying, well, the first hour was boring. And I was wrong when I said something. I said no one is going to come out of this film saying, well, the first hour was boring. And I was wrong because it turns out loads of people, although they thought the second hour was great and the third hour was really great, did come out and say, but the first hour was boring. And as Spence said last week, one of the strategic issues is the point at which you need a wee

is exactly the point that it gets interesting. There's a PS here from Lucy, which order should I start to watch Star Wars? The answer is in question, Shmeshtian's take two, where Mark will explain everything. Number one is, it's quite interesting that Mission Impossible is already off the top spot because number one is Lilo and Stitch here and in America. But then bear in mind that Lilo and Stitch is, you know, is family viewing, whereas Mission Impossible, I mean, I suppose it's, everyone can go and see it, but you're not going to take very young viewers to see it. And Lilo and Stitch is a very popular IP, but it remains to be seen

how well it does. But as I said when I was reviewing it last week, this is the issue with the Disney reboots, is that they have got such strong IP family audience recognition that they'll keep doing it because the numbers make sense. It doesn't matter that the films aren't very good. What matters is that they are hugely profitable. And I think it is a shame that Disney have locked themselves into this, but I understand why, because it's just, okay, we will just literally go through the back catalogue and redo everything in inverted commas, live action. In the case of this, it's longer but lesser.

It doesn't have the teeth of the original. It has a sentimental edge, which is kind of quite cute. I rather enjoyed it whilst I was watching it, but it certainly doesn't add anything to the animation and it does detract somewhat. Ian in Nethi Bridge in the Highlands. Today we took the whole family to see the new version of Lelio and Stitch from Disney. I'm a massive fan of the original film, loving it for all the reasons that Mark found it peculiar. Lost, genetically engineered super weapons that in no way resemble dogs, watercoloured backgrounds, alien looking aliens and subtle word gags combined with a Bond style action

set piece opening in soundtrack of Elvis Bangers to make what I've long felt was the secret best Disney movie. While the rest of the family felt positive about this remake, I didn't. I left feeling like I'd seen an okay performance of a Shakespeare play I really love. They rushed the opening escape, didn't really dwell on Lilo's relationship with the other girls in her town, somehow filled out the cast of characters while simultaneously doing nothing with them. It's all perfectly fine. One of the best lines and gags is still, most of the best lines and gags are

still present and I teared up in the bits I was supposed to tear up in. This movie does not make the case that revisiting these films is anything other than a ploy to sell more merchandise to our children. Let's hope that How to Train Your Dragon has more of a reason for being. However, I fear we will have this same conversation in a few weeks' time." Well there we are. I mean, that is it in a nutshell. I thought that analogy about I had been to see a Shakespeare play done not very well, because the first incarnation of Lilo and Stitch, the animated feature of Lilo and Stitch, is very odd, and the oddity is the thing that makes it charming, and this doesn't have any of that. But it has once again given Disney yet more reason to carry on doing this.

Correspondence at KerbenandMayor.com, we're going to be back with what? We are going to be back, well coming up we're going to have a review of the ritual Al Pacino in Exorcist mode, but before that it's The Salt Path and it's our special guest, Jeremy Irons. Jeremy Isaacs, after this, unless you're a Vanguardista. This is an advert for Shopify. Mark, do you remember when we started this podcast? I do. Plunging into a world of subscribers, ads, merchandise, a lot to get done, a lot of different hats to wear. And hats to sell, of course. That's where the ad hook comes in. For millions of businesses

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first month of BetterHelp.com comm slash cur mode. That's better Hglp comm slash cur mode Hi there mark. Do you know why hiring the right people quickly is so important? Well, the world of weekly film podcasts is so breakneck that when a vacancy comes up We need to fill it fast good thing that there's indeed sponsored jobs Then when it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post seen on other job sites. Indeed sponsored jobs helps you stand out and hire fast.

With sponsored jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. So it makes a huge difference. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a £100 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash KermodeMayo. Just go to indeed.com slash KermodeMayo right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Hiring Indeed is all you Okay, it's time to talk about The Salt Path based on the 2018 memoir by Raina Wynne. We cannot have a chat with our rather lovely guest Jeremy Isaacs. That's almost right after this clip

We lost everything Look me in the eye Coward Home, no likelihood. Maybe we should just follow a line around the coast We just walk You ready? Can't move my arms and my legs, but apart from that, good to go. We've done extensive tests.

All we can do is give you guidance. You should take me back to the shop and get a different one. I don't want a different one. It's not much of a radio play, is it? No, it's edited bits and pieces. The movie stars Gillian Anderson and Jason Isaacs, of course, so it's time to say hello to our good old friend, our best friend, our closest friend, our next of kin, in fact. And that's all we've got time for today.

That's right. Thanks very much for joining us. Hello, Jason, how are you? No, congratulations. I'll make a ground out again. So it's too ridiculous to me to process, but fantastic. It's coming your way and my word, you feel a very, it's a wonderful, wonderful thing. Good. My wife can't wait, but my daughter's just left university. I hope they do wait

a little bit. Yes, absolutely. You don't want it to happen too soon. Not this week, no. No. Anyway, it's very nice to have you on the show, Jason. Just introduce us first of all to the Salt Path. What is the story that we're talking about here and who are you playing? So first of all, one of the great things about Salt Path is not a story, it's a memoir. We've filmed a book and the book itself was novelised from a diary, a journal, of this

extraordinary thing that happened and continues to happen to these two people that I defy anyone not to fall in love with. Raina Wynne and her husband Moth, they were farmers in Wales, from Staffordshire, in Wales. They had a little Airbnb business in their barn and a close friend of Moth's conned them out of their property and money. There was a long court case in which they just had to represent themselves and failed to do it well enough. There was a week in which they went to court thinking they were going to be told, don't worry, he's a calm man, it's fine. Instead, it went wrong. They got the admin wrong and they had their home and all of their livelihood

and savings taken away from them. During the week, they were told to pack up their house and leave, they had a doctor's appointment. And Moth had fallen through the roof of his barn converting from Airbnb a year earlier. So his shoulder didn't work and his leg didn't work. And he thought the stress of the court case was really affecting his memory and his sense of himself. And it turns out he had a fatal neurological condition. And they thought he had a fatal neurological condition and they thought he had months, possibly weeks to live. The doctors said, go home, avoid the stairs and say good-bye. But they didn't have a home anymore and they hid under the stairs when the bailiffs came. They didn't know what to do. They'd been in shock for a week and they,

sticking out of the box that they were holding was a book, A Guide to the Southwest Coastal Path of Britain. Ray, his wife, said to him, why don't we just walk? Which was a mad thing to say to someone who had only one leg that worked and one arm that worked. But they couldn't get a council home and they didn't have any friends who had spare space and stuff and so they walked. They took off.

They bought a cheap tent and very thin sleeping bags, and they starved and they froze, and they endured the best and worst of human behavior, people being very kind and people being brutal and awful to them. And somehow, magically, in this time when they became at one with nature and they suffered terrible deprivations, his condition was crippling him, something magical happened. They found themselves, who they'd been, who they'd lost, and his condition started to reverse. He started to be able to do things like pick his own rucksack up and walk without a limp. It charts this time in their life where something almost indescribable happened to them spiritually, but also physically. One of the things I really loved about it is, because you said a story,

because it isn't a constructed story, stuff happens to them in the film because it just happened to them. You know how Chekhov says you introduce a gun in Act 1 and someone's going to get shot in Act 3, or someone sneezes in Act 1, you know they're going to get TB. Well, a bunch of stuff happens to them, which if it was a script, you'd go, well, that's weird and episodic. But because it's life, you go, just relax. And you go, oh, I can take my hat off that normally it solves puzzles, the story puzzle, and I can just experience what they experienced. And that, in a giant nutshell, is something like our film. What is the condition that Moth is diagnosed with?

He has something called CBD, which is corticobasal degeneration. And you see in the film what I mean, I try and chronicle what was happening to him then physically. But one of the things that was so extraordinary about this experience for me, getting to know him and spending time with him, is he was so generous and brave in chronicling for me what happened to him internally, because your mind fails, not just your body. And this is a man who, self-educated, had absorbed thousands of books and was a kind of walking Wikipedia and couldn't remember things. Couldn't remember the beginning of a sentence by the middle where he went blank.

Couldn't read anymore. There's an episode in the film where he starts to read in public, I don't want to spoil it too much, but this magical thing happened to him. He hadn't been able to read up to that point. So it's up to the audience and I guess Ray Moth still to try and doctors are constantly trying to work out why he's still alive and why these arduous walks have done the things they've done. Is it his optimism? Is it their love? Is it nature? I don't know. But anyway, so his condition should by rights have had him six feet under years ago.

And didn't Ray start writing all this down because she thought that Moth would forget it otherwise? Isn't that the origin of the memoir? That's close. Actually, he made the notes in the guidebook and when they eventually it was just too freezing cold for them to survive anymore and they just couldn't get food from nature anymore. Someone let them live in their barn and he started to forget. His condition started coming back. She's written four books, the second one is about another war we did. He started to forget everything. He couldn't remember the episode with the berries, which broke her heart. They ate

berries one day. They were so in tune with nature, they knew exactly when to eat the berries, when the sea had sprayed them, when the birds hadn't eaten them yet, and when they were ripe. And so she started to write down from his notes a memoir and gave it to him for his 50th birthday. And their daughter said to them, that's bloody good, mum. You should try and get it published. And she went, don't be stupid, I'm a farmer's wife. Well, I think it sold something like three million copies. Mason- Can you tell us a little bit about filming in Cornwall? Because you're filming at where the coastal path is. What was it like and what were your memories of it?

Well you know because you moved there, but I had no idea how staggering the landscape is. And I know it's a cliche you hear people say all the time, you know Paris was a real character in our story. Well, Ray herself goes, the path is a huge character in our life and a huge turning point in our life. And I had no idea rocking up every day to these new locations that Britain had such a staggering landscape and that every day, a half a mile away from somewhere else could

feel like a different country. And the other thing I had no idea was, well, you know, I see the word path, I assume it's something you can walk on. He's got one of the mountains to me and I get there and I go, hold on a second. He had one leg and one arm and couldn't carry his rucksack. Don't tell me he got up that huge pile of boulders. And I phoned him and go, well, I did actually, Jason. It took me eight hours, but I did, you know. I was on the bum most of the time. And so it was amazing because you couldn't get camera crew up there either. You couldn't get the trucks up there. So we would carry the equipment up and down. It

felt obviously nothing like what they went through because we weren't starving and because we had someone to sleep, but it was arduous physically and I'd get somewhere and I'd go, oh please don't tell me I've got to walk up that 50 times today on camera. Because you're not only doing all the close-ups, you do stuff for the drone shots so that the audience can appreciate the beauty of the landscape. So you'd have to do it again in a wide with drones flying over and over you. Um, every time I felt like complaining, of course, I'd remember what Moth's real condition was like and I'd shut up. Speaking of that, uh, Jason, I remember talking to Andy Serkis years ago when he played Ian Dury and he was talking about walking with a caliper on his

leg and how utterly exhausting the whole process was, how, what is it like to spend a whole movie as you're being, you have to walk with this limp. The walk seems arduous, but acting with this limp, acting with this condition must have been exhausting for you. Tyree, first of all, again, I just couldn't allow myself to feel sorry for myself, given the moth real condition. But also, the difficult thing was remembering what hurt him. So I could fake the outside of it, but he told me very specifically which bits were aching and I had to try and feel the pain.

And you kind of do feel pain. I mean, it wasn't really hurting me, but since all pain comes from your brain anyway, I was using my imagination. I felt in pain a lot of the time. But the other thing that was tricky was not just that I got a bad back from it, obviously, and that it was difficult, but I had to chronicle it when we shot out of order, where it gets better, where it gets worse. And then remember that the most important thing as well as seeing that from the outside was what was going on with him on the inside, which he also was so generous in sharing with me, not just what it's like losing your ability,

your cognitive abilities and bodily functions that we don't chronicle on camera, but the tremendous indignities that he had to go through a lot, but also the fear and the shame and the disgrace. So he's a relentlessly positive guy. He's easily the nicest person I've ever played. I mean, that's not difficult to look at the pantheon of people I play, but nonetheless, he is so generous and lovable and extrovert. But he was suicidal, and he didn't share that. He said that to me in front of Ray and she'd never heard him say that because he spends all of his energy and life still trying to make everyone comfortable and particularly the woman that he loves more than anyone else in the world. So he didn't share that with her. He tried to jolly her

up. He made little jolly her up. He made little jokes about being a butler. Even though she had to move his legs and arms for half an hour a day before he could move and do lots of things for him that people should be able to do for themselves, he would always try and make things happy for her. One of the reasons this is the right period of time to make a film out of and the right period of time for them to write a book about is these are two people who never shut up. They love each other. They chat. they laugh, they finish the other sentences.

And this was a period of time when they couldn't talk to each other because there were things that were unsaid for the first time in their life, resentments that boiled up and anger at themselves and shame, such shame that they'd taken their children's future away. The kids were at college. You see them in the film. We put them in a scene in the film so you can meet them. But in fact, what happened in real life is they had to phone their kids at college. We all know what that's like. Our kids are certain ages. And say to them, you can't come home for the summer because we haven't got home anymore. You have to find yourself a job and somewhere to live. And tell me one thing to save from your rooms.

Imagine making that phone call. And then every day it was a decision between whether to eat a bowl of rice or pot noodles or to use that money to put money on your pay-as-you-go phone so you could call them, see if they're all right. So they felt such crippling shame, and they were in such dark places, and they'd never been like that with each other. And Moth radiates positivity, and he felt he needed to continue to do that while he didn't feel it at all until he does, which is the magic of the film and the magic of nature and the magic of where you positivity, and he felt he needed to continue to do that while he didn't feel it at all, until he does. Which is the magic of the film, and the magic of nature, and the magic of where you live, Mark.

That coastal path, and what human generosity, so many people who were so generous to them, managed to do to them was to bring them back to a place of bliss in many ways. Will Barron So in 2025, we've seen you have, I know this is, as you say, it's the job, but does it come through to you at some level that on the one hand you're playing someone who has boundless amounts of money and you're working with extraordinary wealth and then you're homeless and it's an examination of rural poverty and rural homelessness. It's astonishing really.

Well, funnily enough, it has come through to me because I've been doing so much publicity recently. The first person, now many people pointed out to me, they both have exactly the same problem. Tim Ratliff and White Lotus and Moth lose everything. And their different reactions to it tells you so much about who we can be. In fact, by the end of White Lotus, Tim gets to a place, looking at water, engaging with nature, that Moth gets to. Moth just gets to it in a more beautiful and generous

way and much earlier on. But they both get to a place of acceptance, and it's nature that brings them there. So there is an overlap. But his first reaction, Tim, is, I can't take this shame. I have to kill myself. I can't be less than other people. It takes him a long time to get to where he gets to by the end of White Lotus. It doesn't take Moff that time because Moff never thought he was better than anybody. You know that as soon as you meet him. A lot of journalists ask my least favorite question is, what do you want people to take away from this film? And I'm like, it's a piece of art. Take away whatever you like. Have a conversation. Hopefully it changes you in ways, I don't know, everybody should take something different away from it.

But what I got, and I hope by osmosis from being around these people and their journey, is a sense of humility and grace and a reminder, rekindle my love for nature. And a reminder that human beings can be the best and worst, or the best and worst of us are on display and hopefully lean towards the former. Because people were so generous to them often, but so many people recoiled. When they said they were walking the path, at first people went, how lovely, what a great thing for people your age to do. And when they said why, which they stopped saying after a while, people didn't just recoil, they pulled their children back. At some point Ray said they pulled their dogs back. She was trying to work out, did they think they were

going to eat the dogs or what? They were leprous. They're such generous people, they don't want attention for themselves. Ray doesn't want to sell any more books, although she does have a fourth book coming out. What they really hope is that people watch the film, have a great time, and feel like the best version of themselves, and start to look at homeless people, particularly rural homeless people, and see them. It- It's always fantastic to have you on Jason, as you know, just while you're with us, can I ask you about three people who came into the news yesterday, Dominic McLaughlin, Arabella Stanton and Alastair Stout, who've been announced as the new Harry Potter kids. Jason- Oh yes, the new Potter kids. Mason- And the story is about to come again.

When you read this and you look at that, and obviously someone else is going to play your role, I imagine, and you'll seethe with jealousy and be incredibly bitter. That's nice of you to think that I will, but let's hope I do. But as the story reboots again, what do you think? What do you take away from that, Jason? The story's still... I was at a fan convention this weekend, this last weekend in Oklahoma, and it's amazing how those stories still capture powerfully people's imaginations, provide such hope for them, such solace, such comfort when they're feeling lonely or lost. I don't really know why.

I just know that it's true, and they're now going to start again, and whole new generations will get that from a different iteration of it. But in the end, or in the beginning, it's those books. And whatever AIs us to the world, they'll still be books. And stories will still work for human beings. I don't know if you've been to Morocco much, but in Gmail for now, the central square in Marrakesh,

there are storytellers. And they sit and they tell stories and adults sit cross-legged like they're a children's party and they get told ancient stories. And whatever changes in the world, stories, the business that we all work in, will always have a powerful hold and effect on us. And may I just say something on the subject of this? Because you've got stuck in America and storms and everything and you were sending me texts saying have you seen this new stuff?

It's terrifying. We all think the world is ending. I've spent the last few years writing a book about film music. One of the questions which came up was, since you can now sample and do such brilliant demos in advance, why would you need an orchestra? We interviewed a lot of composers about this, and the best answer we had is because

it's the mistakes that make the thing. There are things that humans do that I know everyone says you can program mistakes and you can't. At least at the moment, the whole point is it's the things that humans do together that AI cannot yet do and I think that you are more worried than you need to be. You're right. So I don't mean to contradict you because I don't want to contradict you because I don't want the contradictions to be true. I've seen the stuff now. I don't know if you're looking at it. It's only three days old and it's mind-boggling,

including people stuttering, starting a sentence again. I'm looking at it. You sent it to me, Jason. Of course I'm looking at it. You literally sent it to me. I sent it. But my stuff, my lines, social media stuff is getting flooded with it. And I'm trying not to look at it now because what's the point? All we can do is take our next step forward. I love the job that I do. I love this story. It's so human and keep doing it. There's no point living in future catastrophes. Let's carpe diem, all of us. Who knows what's coming. And it's very nice to speak to you, Jason, and especially as you have the nicest microphone

which actually glows green when you're speaking. It does glow. I don't quite know how to switch that off. Hopefully you'll be the last people that ever see this glow, because if I don't learn to switch it off, it's going to become incredibly irritating. But it does make me sound much cooler than I am. I've got it. I've turned myself down an octave. I really sound like a mosquito. Jason, always a pleasure. Thank you very much. Thanks. Lovely to see you both. And we'll see you at the Newlyn Film House on Saturday.

That's right. Well, I wasn't going to plug it because I didn't know if that's appropriate. Now, of course we're not on TV. It's long sold out. Plug everything in. It's long sold out. Buy both of their books. They're fabulous. Just they can say things like that. Never used to say that before. So thanks as ever to Jason. Always entertaining. And You can tell, I think, seasoned Jason listeners

can tell when he's enthusiastic about a project because he can sell anything. He's fantastic at it. But there's a man who believes in this film, I think. Yes. Actually, he has been talking about it in these terms right from the beginning. As I said, he's coming to Newlym Filmhouse on Saturday to talk about the film and he has been doing the publicity trial for it, but in a way that you can tell how much it means to him. See, here's what I think. I think there are two things going on here. So obviously, as I said, it's an adaptation of Ray Rainewin's memoir about this path that they walked together and during that, this

extraordinary thing happened. It is that tale of rejuvenation. That path goes through Cornwall and, as Jason was saying, the landscape is extraordinary. The Cornish landscape is extraordinary. But I think the thing you need to make clear is this. This is not a film about Cornwall in the way that, for example, Bait is a film about Cornwall. The path may be a third character, but in the end, there are two central characters in this, and that is Ray and Moth. And I think that what this is, is a love story. It is a story about, for Richard Fappora, in sickness and in health, it is a story about two people sticking together through the worst of times. And through that, finding the best of them. I mean, it was interesting when Jason was making the comparison with the character that he plays in White Lotus, somebody who loses everything, and then during the course of that,

sort of finds himself. But the things that I take away from this are, on the one hand, it's the encounters with strangers, it's the kindness of strangers, and also potentially the cruelty of strangers. And I know that there are certain areas in which it's to do with what sort of state would you be in having done this kind of walk? But the thing that rings true to me is that these two people, as Jason said over and over again in that interview, and I think he says it over and over again because it's true, it is a love story. It is about two people who absolutely love each other. And that thing that we heard, you know, you should get another version why I don't want someone else. And I have a particular weakness for stories, for actual love stories,

ordinary love, you know, tales of ordinary devotion. And I think that's what this is. Whatever else may be going on, the fact that it's called The Salt Path and the fact there's been a lot made about the landscape, and I understand all of that. For me, that isn't what the film is about. What the film is about is two people in the worst of times finding the best of themselves. I think that what the film gets right is the relationship between those two central characters. I think that's down to the performances. I mean, you know, Ellen Luvaw is a brilliant cinematographer, but I think that what we get is that relationship because of the performances of Jason Isaacs and Gillian Anderson.

I know Jason was very offhand when he said, well, I don't, you know, I said, how do you get this? He said, I don't know, it's my job, I'm an actor. But for me, that's the kind of magic thing is, how do you do the thing about implying a history? When we're only really in the company of these people for a couple of hours when it comes to a film, how do you do the thing about implying a history? When we're only really in the company of these people for a couple of hours when it comes to a film, how do you do the thing that implies history?

And it's not, yes, there are flashbacks. We start in the middle of them wrestling with the tend and then we see flashbacks to how they got here. But actually the story isn't told through that. The story is told through the way they look at each other or they don't look at each other, through the things they say to each other or the things they can't say to each other, through the way in which they physically

interact, even when it's to do with one walking behind the other or one helping the other with their bags. Those are the things that you look at and you think, I can believe that these people have history and they have a past, a present, and a future. I think that that's the performances. I think whether it's happening in a tent on the side of the coast or whether it's happening in a pub, it's the relationship between them that almost knocks everything else out of the ballpark, which is why I say the irony of it is that for me it isn't a film about Cornwall. It's a love story about those two people that happens to be playing out on a

path that happens to go through some of the most extraordinary landscape anywhere. And I think, yes, I think you're right. It could have been a film about walking around the Hebrides or walking around Wales, or that's not the point. That isn't the point. And I was at a wedding recently, and I know it's become a cliche just because we're so familiar with it, but that line, in sickness and in health, that's exactly what these two people have taken to heart, and they will stick by each other, come what may. Well, the full is, for richer, for poorer, in and in health. And that's why I say, I mean,

in a way that is it, isn't it? It is exactly that. It is a drama about what that promise means. When you love somebody, that is what it is. The salt path. And if you're wondering about the salt bit, then you probably need to see the film because I think that sort of comes into it towards the end. But once you've seen it, let us know what you think. Correspondents are kevinmayer.com. Jason is clearly feeling slightly gloomy about the future of the whole industry. That's what I glean from that. He literally doom texts me with, have you seen this? It's the end of the world. I think it was nice at the end

of the interviews and I just have to withdraw from this. Jason, if you're listening to this, you do. It's fine. It's fine. It's the ads in a minute, Mark, but first it's time to step once again with Gay Abandon and with Confidence and with our hats at jaunty angles into the laughter lip. Well, now, hey Mark, I like to think of myself as a bit of a card, as you know, and I was in my local pub in Showbiz North London last night when the barmaid shouted, Help, help, please help. Does anyone know CPR? Yes, I shouted. I know all those letters. How almost everyone except for there was one poor bloke lying on the carpet he didn't

laugh at all I mean some people actually was a bit of a heavy night to be honest I checked my phone after the pub closed and I had about 20 missed calls and 50 missed texts from you know who saying call me ASAP it's an emergency so I texted back okay ASAP I'd rather keep calling you the good lady ceramicist they're indoors but whatevs. No response. Absolutely no response. Bit of a quiz mark here. It's a science quiz, your favorite. Excellent. What weighs more, a liter of water or a liter of butane?

Well, a liter of water. Yes, because no matter how much water you have, butane will always be a lighter fluid. Yay! What are we doing in our next section? In our next section, we're going to be reviewing Al Pacino as everyone's favorite exorcist in the ritual after this. Hey podcast listeners, have you heard you can listen to your favorite podcast ad free? That's good news.

With Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad free top podcasts included with your Prime membership. To start listening, download the Amazon Music app for free or go to amazon.com slash ad free podcasts. That's amazon.com slash ad free podcasts to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. As you may or may not have noticed, it's been 20 years since we started this thing as a podcast. Now, I have to be perfectly honest and say that neither of us really understood

what was happening because we were doing a radio show and they said, do you want to do this thing? Which some people are calling a podcast, but we can't call it that because we have to call it a download and all that kind of stuff. And there were strict rules about how much extra stuff you could add in. So we just, it's fine. You know, if, you know, if more people can listen to it, then that's a very good thing.

Yes. But, um, 20 years, I think the longest podcast in the UK, as far as I can tell, is In Our Time, the Radio 4 show with Melvin Bragg. Although actually it's a podcast, or it's just a repeat of the show. I think The Archers as a podcast, which is obviously just a repeat of the show, They've both been going for long, but I think we're sort of just behind there, something like that, which is pretty extraordinary, don't you think?

I mean, you know, far be it from us to say we're great. I mean, like I said, the weird thing is that we genuinely stumbled into it. And it was the best stumbling we ever did, which, but yes, it wasn't like, we weren't ahead of it. And it was the best stumbling we ever did. But yes, it wasn't like we weren't ahead of it. To mark this auspicious anniversary, next week we would like your particular favourite and least favourite memories, if you like, for the last two decades. Good and bad, the awkward, the tear inducing, whatever you remember. There'll be some that jump out. We'll also be doing the UK box office chart from this summer year in 2005,

which is the year we're talking about. Which is number 10, A Good Woman, Helen Hunt, Scarlett Janssen, the Amityville Horror, Ryan Reynolds, Melissa George in number nine, XXXII, the next level, is it number eight, The Jacket at seven, The Wedding Date at six, The Interrupterer at five, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy at four, Kingdom of Heaven at three, the Ridley Scott movie, Monster in Law at number two, movie, Monster in Law at number two and number one Star Wars episode three, Revenge of the Sith. That was our first podcasted top 10. Send in your missives on those films, please. And we could do a proper top 10 review section, correspondence at kermitandmenno.com for an all singing, all dancing, 20 year spectacular. And also here's the interesting thing. I can't get my head around that at all. Neither of dancing, 20 year spectacular. Wow. And also here's the interesting thing.

I can't get my head around that at all. Neither of us have aged at all. We look the same, we sound the same, nothing has changed. Our kids appear to be older, but that's basically it. Correspondence of CodeMoe.com, what is out, what is excited? Well, the ritual. Okay, so a few years ago we had Russell Crowe on a Vespa battling the devil as real life exorcist Gabrielle Amort in The Pope's Exorcist. And exorcist director

William Friedkin had made a documentary about Gabrielle Amort that I was peripherally involved in called The Devil and Father Amort, which is part of how I know that The Pope's Exorcist was rubbish. Anyway, then just when you thought it was safe to go back in the confessional, there came another Russell Crowe exorcism movie called The Exorcism, if you remember this from 2024, which was actually filmed before the Pope's exorcist and then shelved and then issued after the success of the Pope's exorcist. So it's not like Russell Crowe thought the Pope's exorcist was a good idea. I'll do another one. He did one. It was rubbish. It didn't get released. Pope's exorcist

came out. It got released. And that was directed by Joshua John Miller, son of Jason Miller, who is one of the exorcists in the exorcist. Now we have Al Pacino and Dan Stevens going down the real life, but not really real life, devil fighting route in the ritual. Here's a taster. Brethren, put on the armor of God that you might withstand the devil. This is a very troubled woman, hissing at the side of a church.

The woman's parish wishes to attempt a solemn sacrament. You mean an exorcism? You would like me to perform it? No, some poor other soul already has that distinction. We are the Lord's army in this battle. We are the Lord's Army in this battle. So, okay, as you can tell, this is horror drama. This is from director, I don't know whether it's Middel or Midel, based on quote, the most thoroughly documented exorcism of the 20th century in modern times.

Also, according to the poster, the true story that inspired the exorcist, that in itself is not true. The exorcist was specifically based on the case of Robbie Mannin, which was the pseudonym given to Roll Hunckler, whose identity remained hidden until he died in 2020. That was known as the Mount Rainier case, which was reported in The Washington Post in 1949. That was the case that inspired exorcists. Although Blatty obviously researched and read about other cases, including the case of Lawrence Venom, aka the Watsika Wanda from the late 19th century, and the case of Emma Schmidt, aka Anna Eklund in Erling, Iowa in the 1920s, which is what this is based on. So yes, he had read about it, but this isn't the case. It's wrong to say it's the case that blah,

blah, blah. Anyway, so this story was previously told in a 2016 film called The Exorcism of Anna Eklund. Al Pacino is Father Reisinger, who is an aging priest and hardened exorcist who has no doubt about fighting the devil. Dan Stevens is Father Joe Steiger, who was a younger priest of more uncertain faith, and he has his doubt, so very much Marian Karras. Although I understand the chronological inspiration thing. So, Dan Stevens' father is based in a convent in Erling, Iowa. He is told that they are going to be brought a young woman for exorcism and it's going to happen there because no one else will do it. Along arrives Al Pacino's character who is ready to do battle with the

devil, which he does on a nightly basis because by day she is troubled and exhausted, but by night that's when the exorcisms and the demonic manifestations take place. Her rages are violent and injuries are sustained, none are terrified. There's the usual litany of contorted faces and growly voices and lots of vomiting and up-choking. As I said, this kind of Merrin-Carras relationship at the center, these two men, one old, one young, one certain, one wred with doubts, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, must come together in order to overcome the devil. Now, possession movies basically break down, and this is my pet subject, so I'm going to go on about this

for a bit. They come in two types. There are the demonic horror movies of which Exorcist is the high water mark and everything else is sort of just way, way, way below. Everything else is a knockoff. Then there are interesting movies about faith and doubt and belief and mental illness. And those are films like Requiem with Sandra Huler, who we all love, or the other German movie Stations of the Cross, both of which draw on the case of Annelie's Michel,

whose case went on to inspire, well, a number of documentaries and dramatic features. There's also Christian Mungu's Beyond the Hills, which again draws on that same case. This wants to be part of the latter serious investigation, Faith Doubt, but actually, of course, it's got one foot very firmly in the exorcist, hokey, you know, sub-demonic possession horror movie genre. The weird thing is the film itself isn't any good because it's silly. However, Al Pacino, who I fully expected to walk into the room and go, ha, the devil's got a great ass, doesn't. What he does is surprisingly underplays it.

And actually, despite the fact that the movie is just, I mean, it'll come and go and people will forget about it and it's not particularly scary and there's nothing in it that you haven't seen done before, his performance is not one of his worst. And if you compare his performance to Russell Crowe's performance in both the Exorcist movies, you say, well, actually, at least he's trying to come across like an Exorcist rather than trying to come across as Gladiator, who happens to be in hand-to-hand

combat with the devil. As we went into the film, somebody said to me, it's interesting, isn't it? Because of course, Pacino played the devil in The Devil's Advocate. So he's done both sides. And in fact, when playing playing the devil in the devil's advocate and playing the exorcist in this, he has a sort of oddly human element to him. So it's nonsense. It is nonsense. And it is just part and parcel of that whole welter of stuff that wants you to think that it's taking the subject seriously because this is the most well-documented case, blah, blah. That's all nonsense, right? That is just nonsense. Hats off to Abigail Cohen, who plays the central character, who gives it some kind of

last exorcism style welly in terms of her performance. Al Pacino is perfectly fine. of her performance. And Al Pacino is perfectly fine. And actually at moments I was surprised that he wasn't doing Al Pacino. He did appear to have invested something in the role, but it is hooey from beginning to end. If there are any casting directors listening, as I imagine there are,

do you know who'd make a really good exorcist? I just had a think about that while you were talking about it. I think Toby Jones would be very, very good at applying himself to the depths that are required to be an exorcist. What do you think? Well, I have met people who have performed exorcisms. And as I said, I was peripherally involved in Billy Friedkin's documentary about Gabrielle Amort. And of course, they're just ordinary people. They're priests. Actually, the thing that Pacino brings to this is that he's just ordinary. He's very down to earth and very ordinary. The thing with Toby to earth and very kind of ordinary. The thing with Toby Jones is it's not that Toby Jones could play an exorcist, it's that Toby Jones could play a detectorist and an exorcist and a sound designer in Barbarian

Sound Studio. And he could do all of those things because he's a great actor. But generally, I remember Bill Blatty telling me that when they were casting Exorcist 3, they were casting suggestions for the central priest in Exorcist 3. I think Charlie Sheen wanted to do it. Jack Nicholson wanted to play one of the priests in the Exorcist. Jack Nicholson is a priest. That's the end of take one. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production this week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh and Heather. The producer was Jem who's also a movie star. More on that in take two. They're back to a Simon Poole. And if you're not following the pod already, please do so wherever

you get your podcast. Mark, what is your film of the week? Well, we have a joint film of the week, and if you haven't heard take two yet, you've only heard one of them. So my joint film of the week is Saltpath and the Ballad of Wallace Island, which is reviewed in take two, and you need to listen to take two. How intriguing, but also frustrating. Anyway, that podcast has landed alongside this one. Thank you very much. We'll talk to you very soon.