Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Ira Sachs, Passages, Antoine Fuqua, The Equalizer 3 & Sound of Freedom

Episode Date: September 1, 2023

With Mark and Simon still having the time of their lives at sea, Anna Bogutskaya and Rhianna Dhillon are back to warm their seats with some sizzling, cinematic takes. Say a prayer to the cinematic powers that be because this week is a bumper week for interviews. Rhianna sits down with not one but two - yes two! - brilliant directors, Antoine Fuqua and Ira Sachs, to talk about their respective new films, ‘The Equalizer 3’, the final outing for Denzel Washington’s violent vigilante Robert McCall, and ‘Passages’, which sees a gay couple’s marriage thrown into crisis when one of them impulsively begins a passionate affair with a young woman. While we don’t have time to include the interviews in their entirety in Take 1, you can listen to the rest of them in Take 2. Anna jumps in to offer her thoughts on both, as well as reviewing ’Sound of Freedom’, the controversial, Q-Anon and Donald Trump-endorsed, Jim Caviezel-starring action film about a former US government agent who embarks on a mission to rescue children from sex traffickers in Colombia. Time Codes (relevant only for the Vanguard - who are ad-free!): 00:04:14 Ira Sachs Interview 00:17:01 Passages Review 00:24:49 Box Office Top 10 00:38:04 Antoine Fuqua Interview 00:48:23 The Equalizer 3 Review 00:57:37 Laughter Lift 00:59:24 Sound of Freedom Review 01:13:18 What’s On You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get holiday ready at Real Canadian Superstore. Will you find more legendary ways to save than any other major grocer? Until December 13th, you'll get a free PC turkey when you spend $300 or more. That's right, free only at your Super Holiday Store. Conditions apply to fly for details. Hello and welcome to the take. I'm Rihanna Dillon, BBC film critic and I'm joined by Anna Bagutskaya, who is always a pleasure to talk to. Oh, that was a pleasure.

Never a choice. How are you doing, Anna? I'm good. You know what, this already feels weird. For listeners, this does not not make sense, but for people who are watching this on YouTube, you'll see I've introduced chaos into this equation. Right from the start, we're sitting in different seats. Yeah, this is a real power play. There's a real power play from Adam, right? Right out of the bat.

Right out of the bat, right out of the gate. I'm all confusion. You know I like to power play. You absolutely do. We've got a lot to get through. This is like a bumper episode today. So very grateful for Simon and Mark still being on their holidays because it means that I got to interview two amazing directors and of course get to spend time with you and we get to talk about some really interesting, sometimes quite terrifying films. So let's get into it. Well,

we got on the line up. So we've got a lineup of quite a controversial lineup for very different reasons. So we'll be reviewing passages, the new Irish sax film, equalizer three, starring Denzel Washington and sound of freedom. Yes, the sound of freedom one we have a lot to say about and we will get to. Apparently you guys have been asking for this for a really long time. And hey, that day has arrived. You can hear my chat with Iris Sacks, who directed passages and Antoine Fouqua, who directed the equaliser three later in the podcast. And in our extra takes, we have at least 90 more minutes of this ridiculousness. We have the weekend watch list slash weekend not list. We've got five films which are great and

three that you'll hate. I'm already disagreeing with this list. Oh, I had a little look. I had a little look too, and I need to have words with the production team. Me too. Because I think we're in the line with this. We are not saying anything, but our eyes are saying everything. And I know exactly the one that you have an issue with because I have the same issue. We also have bonus reviews. We have clock and looter. We have auto-backster, notter, horror story.

I'm assuming you're going to bird song that. And Cobweb, which I made Mike come and hold my hand for the last 10 minutes of this film. I genuinely did. I genuinely did. And in Take It or Leave It, you decide we're watching at Lanter. So thank you so much to the listener who chose that. One frame back is inspired by passages,

so we're looking at films about love triangles. Because they can't keep away. Mark and Simon are also gonna be dropping in for take three from the Grand Union Canal, and nearing Birmingham, I think, it's been like two months, they've been on holiday together. Do you think we could manage two weeks away? Two months away, see? I could manage two weeks away? Two months away at sea? I couldn't manage two weeks away anywhere on sea and land in the air.

I'm going away on holiday for three weeks, while two weeks later, later this year. And I'm excited, but I'm also dreading the withdrawals and them from work. Oh wow, Anna, you and me are so, so different. You can support us via Apple podcasts or head to extratakes.com for non-fruit related devices. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter, as always, we salute you. Anna, you're supposed to do that with me.

Am I? Yes. That was not in the script. It is in the script. It's not in the script. It says together, we salute you. OK, let's do it again. Let's do it the books. It says, together, we salute you. Okay, let's do it again. Let's do it again.

One, two, three. We salute you. We have a... We... As I said, we've got a bumper episode today. We have a set of brilliant chaos today. You already are. We have a bumper episode with two guests.

But first up, it's Iris Sacks, director of the Delta. 40 Shades of Blue, married life, keep the lights on, love is strange, little men, he's really got quite the roster, but he'll be talking about his new film, Passages which is out today. You're going to hear my interview with him after this clip and just to warn you, it's going to end quite abruptly because you'll be able to hear the second part of the interview in take two. Here you go. You know what I was doing last night?

No, but whatever it was, you sound very excited. I had thanks for the woman. Can I tell you about it, please? Yes, of course. I felt something I hadn't felt in a very long time and wanted to hear this. It was exciting. It was something different now. It's sick what's happening between us.

For real. That was a clip from Passages, and I'm delighted to be joined by its writer and director, Iris Axe. Hello, welcome to the take. How are you? I'm very well, Rihanna. How are you doing? I'm really well. Very excited to talk to you about Passages. So just to start with, can you briefly give us a sense of the film that you set out to make? Yeah, I wanted to make a film of intimacy and of desire and of pleasure. It's the story of a gay couple, two men who've been together for quite a while,

and the woman that one of them has a relationship with. So it's a pretty intense love triangle which really focuses on the quality and the intimacy of performance. It's an actor's film in many ways. And our lead Tomas, who is played by Franz Rogowski, is a director, but after the opening scene, we don't actually see him direct again. So tell us about that decision to show us

in his workplace and then move swiftly away from that for the rest of the film. Yeah, well, you know, as a filmmaker, it's a world I know well being a filmmaker. So it was very natural to consider this man in the same field as myself. Also, I want to establish very early on into man with power. And the question of the film is what what happens to that power and what does he do with it? And also where does he where there gaps between what he wants and what he has and and in a way that becomes the human vulnerability of the character I it's a film in which it's not a film about labor. It's not a film about jobs, but each of the characters have jobs and do do labor and so in a way by the characters have jobs and do do labor. And so in a way, by making him a filmmaker, I very quickly can use sort of a shorthand to be authentic about that role for him. And it's, you know, I'm interested in creative people. That's a world I live in. And I'm often drawn to telling stories

of people in creative lives. So you kind of set him up as a bit of a bully and a narcissist from the beginning. So I was one of you sort of testing our investment in our protagonist. Do you think that we need to light our central characters? You know, I love Tomas partially because I really love Frans Rogowski. And I feel like in time, I feel that the audience understands why people would be attracted to him, whether they like him as a figure. Also, there's a gap between the character and the performer, and that's really important. If we were watching a documentary of someone like Tomas, it would be very, very hard to

watch, but we're watching a performance. And film, the history of film is been filled with a certain kind of anti-hero, a person who goes against the norm, whether it be Travis Bickle, in Taxi Driver, or Buster Keaton. There's a way in which Tomas is somehow between the two. He's overturning everything. And I think that's part of what I see as the pleasure the audience gets being watching him is he does things that they would never feel the right to do in their own lives. How do you think the power shifts as the film goes on because it's you know it starts out you think you know exactly where it's going and you really don't which is wonderful. And because you have these three central characters.

Some people are top some people are at the bottom and that is constantly moving. Right, and I think top and bottom are very important. Yes. In this film. You know, I think to me that I consider my films on this one in particular, I consider them action films and suspense films, but the suspense is emotional. And part of creating an emotional suspense is really in every scene as writers.

My, I co-write with my friend and collaborator, Mauricio Zacharias, this is the fifth film we've made together. We're always thinking what's at stake in every scene and what changes in every scene. And it's really important that the audience sort of be taken down that story so that they're never sure who dominates a particular scene. You might think it's to Moss but then it's Martin his his partner and then it's a God

and then it's her parents and it's the domination is really central in every scene and ultimately you start off with a man who's on a pedestal but he doesn't stay on that pedestal for very long, right? Like very soon he's tripping over things and tripping over people. And it is a very sexual, very sensual film. And with the amount of conversations going on about the sex scenes in passages, it kind of fills up. We're not used to seeing this on our screens at the moment,

given the amount of kind of like, I don't know, hand ringing that's going on. Do you think that they really like that lack of risk in cinema today that is prompting these these kind of weird outbursts? To me it's really it begins with a lack of cinema about adults. You know let's just start there like films that are made not about toys and superheroes. I think the idea that we go, I think 30 years ago we went to the cinema to see ourselves. And now there's a much more, I think, series and television have sort of taken that role. In a lot of sense, the everyday has been dominated

by what's on the boob tube as they used to call it. So I think that in a way, what seems unusual is that these are people that are living adult-ful human lives. And I need that in cinema. And that's what I wanted to make. And that includes sex and sexuality. But really, it's about intimacy and vulnerability. That's to me what I'm after. One of the scenes, which really intrigued me,

was the one where you think that must be the first time that he has done that with a woman. And he's just sort of looking and he's just staring at her and just sort of taking in this moment. Can you talk about creating that scene because that's a pretty unusual one to see? Thank you for asking about that. You're one of the very few of the hundreds of people I've talked to you asked about that scene, which to me is one of the more, you know, one I thought a lot

about because it's exactly as you say something unusual is happening for Tomas particularly and it's a sex scene. It's also very well performed by both of them and Adele in that scene is. She's amazing. She's amazing. She's amazing. And as she is in every scene, really. But I was interested in someone in that sense that they're having sex, but they're not totally having. They're not having intercourse. So Tomas is both a participant and an observer in an interesting way. And so I place the scene really on his face in a lot of ways because you you you were seeing that this is something new and curious for him. And you're also not sure how he feels about it. Yeah. Yeah. In some ways what you're speaking to is the fact that when I wrote the

film I thought it would be a film of identity and that these would be gay men and I describe it in a way as gay men but but in the film itself their identity isn't as fixed and I think it's a generational shift that has to do with I'm 57 these characters are in their late 30s and I think that there's been a shift in the idea of the fixed state when it comes to sexuality and these actors play that out in this film. Yeah, there are no labels, are there? You never label any of them actually as by gay, fluid, anything, which is refreshing. Yeah, I mean, you know, I needed those labels when I was young because I needed to actually

establish that I existed as a gay man and that my desire was for other men and there wasn't the space for that. So it was important to create community where also I felt safe. And I'm sure that's still true, but maybe not for these three characters in a certain way. They live in this terribly cosmopolitan Paris, where it seems like everything is possible. And actually, you mentioned Paris, which of course is that cliche

of how it's another character in the film, but you have voiled all of the stereotypes that we're so used to seeing in Paris. So tell us about your relationship with Paris and especially your relationship to film in Paris as an American. Yeah, well, in 1986, so the late 80s, I lived in Paris. I was a student. I didn't speak French.

I didn't have any friends, really. I ended up going to the movies a couple of times a day, two or three times a day, and I ended up in a three-month period seeing 197 films and it changed my life. My relationship to the city was always sort of connected to my relationship to the cinema. And since that time I've gone back many times. Paris is a city that I know very well. Not as, you know, I haven't lived there like I have in New York, but I've had relationships there. I've had breakups there, I've cried in Paris, like I feel very comfortable there. So that made it very easy for me to make a film. In terms of it not being cliche, well that's my job, right? My job is not to cliche. So like,

I don't think I get extra credits for not being bad, but I do think that it's a film that takes place. It takes place in intimate settings, in homes, in restaurants, in bedrooms, and hallways. Significantly, the film ends on the streets of Paris. And I think that that was intentional that you're kind of brought back into the world. These characters are, there's almost like a fugue or a quartet going on. It's very, very claustrophobic almost. And suddenly, they're out. And the story becomes part of the world as well. You talked about that very specific period watching so many films.

Are there any films that really stand out, that really sort of encapsulate your time in Paris as a student? Yes, very much so. And some I'm still going back to including Chantal Akerman made a film called Joutouille L Which is a wonderfully open film about female sexuality The in a way gave me permission to be very open myself with my own experience Maurice Piallas who's a French realist director made films like Annozomore And when I was in Paris, he made a film called Police that came out. He's a great French. He's like the French Kessavetes. You might, or Kinloch. Kessavetes is America, Pialas, France, and Kinloch is is is England. Each working in a very realist form.

But I also saw films of America like for the first time. I'd never seen events at Manelli film. I'd never seen Splinter in the grass. One of my favorite films ever. So, you know, there was just a love of what's possible on the screen. And I think what I've really, when I think about a movie like Splinter in the grass, a technical or movie made in the early 60s, I think about color. And color to me is really central to this film's pleasure also, the impact of color on the audience, blue, red, white, yellow, and in a way, if people leave with an impression, that's for me a success. It's like the impression of the images on the body are part of what I'm after. That was RSX talking about passages, and that was I'm after. That was Aorus Axe talking about passages.

And that was fun listening back. It was an amazing interview, I really liked that. Thank you. Very good questions. Thanks so much. And Aorus just such a great talker. He's such a great speaker. I could listen to him talk for hours.

Aura, if you're listening to this, maybe start a podcast. I would love to hear that. I've had the absolute honor of entering him in different situations around the release of passages, which we screened the Edamer Film Festival last week. So it's always just a thrill to hear him speak. And I mean, I don't think it's any surprise for you at least.

I absolutely adore this film. So tell me about what struck you about passages that for somebody who doesn't know what Irish acts as work might resonate. It is, it is like he mentioned in that interview, something that we're kind of lacking in cinema. It is an adult-focused drama, very well written, beautifully performed, really stylishly directed. It's not something I've noticed

kind of, you know, a lot of reviews mentioned is the fact that it is gorgeous to look at. It's very deliberately chosen. The colors, the framing, the costuming, the details and the background, these lives that they live of bourgeois artists, almost in Paris. It's incredibly cinematic. It's drinking from the well of French cinema and American independent cinema of there being sort of a distance between characters in real life, but at the same time these characters' experiences are talking to really fundamental truths about the human experience, which sounds very hoi-di-toi-di, but if you really want to boil it down, it is about the emotional entanglement of three people. And, you know, Thomas, the really narcissistic filmmaker played by friends, Vagowski, his husband schoolteacher played by a del exotopolis, I hope I'm doing that justice.

But Tomas is essentially this flame, you know, he's incredibly frivolous, completely self-absorbed, and so utterly, demonically charismatic, that he keeps spruing, he keeps seeding chaos everywhere he goes. This is something that you kind of saw in him. Well, my entire chaos, chaotic personality, this morning, as we record is inspired by passages. Yes. I watched the film when it was screening at the Sunnets Film Festival

and every watched it last night to kind of luxury it in and again. And it struck me even more in a second watch, because when you picked this up in your interview with Ira, it is one of the most fascinating examples of a film about the fluidity of human sexuality. Like you mentioned, the characters are not identified as gay, or anything like that. It is all about intimacy, about emotions,

about what the body wants in a particular moment. And the complications of that, the side effects that that has on an emotional relationship, a marriage, a partnership. And it also has to do with this kind of volatile charismatic personality that is Thomas. He's like a black hole and a star all at the same time. He draws you in and when you're with him, he is everything and his attention is so seductive and addictive. And the film is about these two characters, Martin and a God being pulled into him and

slowly realizing that that's not good for them, that they are losing themselves in his pool, but because the film stays with Thomas, and he is such a strongly performed and drawn character. He's pathetic and alluring all at the same time. And the camera loves him, and that's Fransford Gowski, film the film really, as much as it's a love triangle, really what's the word I'm looking for, really hangs on him and his performance. We talked about this, we messaged and I asked you, do you think that an audience member

needs to feel that pull towards either Thomas or Frantz as an actor? Do you think there needs to be an element of attraction for this film to work? Because for me, as soon as I see him as a bully from the beginning, like these opening scenes, that very much put me at arms length. I was into the story, but I was no way kind of relating to it. I didn't find him attractive in any way.

As soon as I saw that, you know, it was really like shutters down. Whereas I think for you, it was a different experience. And I wonder if that changed the way that we accessed the emotional side. I think that's an interesting point. And it might shut people down. I personally, I'm always drawn to stories about artists, about creative people, and the volatility of creative people.

It's well, I think that's incredibly cinematic. It's really, I might not like those people in real life, but I love seeing them on screen because it's drama, it's art, it's sex, it's desire, and pleasure. And I think Tomas is someone who is really ping-ponging between his desires and his seeking out pleasure. And we don't really see him work that much and that's not really picking.

We know he's a filmmaker, which is interesting. But he does have that temperament. We see just a tiny bit of it, but the rest of it is spent in between the film being made. But I think the performance is so strong, whether you are attracted to the actor portraying Tomas, I think that's relatively irrelevant because you can see why his charisma has the power

and the Lord that it does over the characters in the story. We have a really good email actually. This is from Bart in Amsterdam who said, Ditt and a Rihanna, Ditt and, saying Anna and Rihanna is quite hard. Passages was released last week in Amsterdam. And when I saw it, I was struck by the film's unabashed betrayal of a destructive narcissist, without ever trying to explain or redeem him.

This makes passages a fascinating companion piece to tar. Both films are about an artist who leave behind a pattern of abusive relationships. However, Todd Fields' film makes it very clear that the title character is also a great artist and asks the question whether her mistreatment and manipulations of people is somehow the price or byproduct of great talent. Great talent, incidentally, is often used as an excuse for the bad behaviour of some famous artists, which I think is such an important point to raise. Passages, however, leaves the audience

guessing on whether Thomas is a good film director or not. The film does have a side character who is a talented writer and who is kind, responsible and self-effacing. This way, Iris Axe makes a raw statement. It doesn't matter how talented Thomas is, he's still a destructive narcissist. This, plus the film's less obtrusive style makes passages the better

and bolder movie. Interesting compared to tar. I really like this. I think they're both really interesting explorations of power and the power of narcissist. I know it's a road that gets thrown around a lot, but I do think that they're both as the the email I was saying really well drawn, complicated, really unjudgmental and unmarializing portraits of narcissistic personalities. The appeal of them and the dangerous toxicity of them as well. And it might be interesting for listeners. It instantly made me think of Zadith Smith's essay on Tara, which is one of the best things, one of the best essays on any film that I've ever read. And there's other book called Monsters, which really talks about what you are alluding to about

can great talent justify a bad personality. Yes, often. Not really. Thank you so much, Bon Appetite. It's Still to come. We've got... Sound of freedom. We've got sound of freedom and the equaliser three. Don't forget, I'm interviewing Antoine Fuqua very shortly, but we'll be back after this. Happy Nord Christmas. Protect yourself whilst Christmas shopping online and access all the Christmas films from around the globe! Plus, when you shop online you'll have to give websites your card details and other sensitive

data like your personal addresses. Those websites should already have their own encryption built into their payment systems, but to be on the safe side you can use a VPN to ensure that all data coming to and from your device is encrypted. Even if you're using an unsafe Wi-Fi, you'll still be able to shop securely with a VPN. And you can access Christmas films only available overseas by using streaming services not available in the UK. To take our huge discount of your NordVPN plan, go to nordvpn.com slash take. Our link will also give you four extra months for free on the two year plan. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money back guarantee.

The link is in the podcast episode description box. Highest in podcast listeners, Simon Mayo. I'm Mark Kermot here. I'm excited to let you know that the new season of the crown and the Crown, the official podcast, returns on 16th November to accompany the sixth and final season of the Netflix epic Royal Drama series. Very exciting, especially because SuperSub and Friend of the Show Edith Bowman hosts this one. Indeed, Edith will take you behind the scenes, dive into conversation with the talented cast and crew from writer and creator Peter Morgan to the crowns Queen Elizabeth in Melda Staunton.

Other guests on the new series include the Crowns research team, the directors, executive producers Suzanne Mackie and specialists such as voice coach William Connaker and props master Owen Harrison. Cast members including Jonathan Price, Selene Daw, Khalid Abdullah, Dominic West and Elizabeth the Bikki. You can also catch up with the story so far by searching The Crown, the official podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe now and get the new series of The Crown,

the official podcast first on November 16th. Available wherever you get your podcasts. It is time for the streamers and box office top 10. So, although in at number 15 in the UK and at number 23 in the US, it's theatre camp. And we have this email from Christine who says, really enjoyed theatre camp in theory. I shouldn't have. Lots of tropes and stereotypes of kids in the arts world, even more of the adults in performing arts. But somehow, this collection of fragmentary ideas gradually coalesced into something enjoyable,

engaging, and laugh out loud funny, like watching a smashed vase miraculously assemble into something perfect and whole. I'm not entirely sure why it was so much fun, but get past the first 20 minutes and go with a show. I'm actually going, I'm taking a friend who works as a theatre count counselor in Canada to see theatre count this afternoon. I think that's going to be a great experience. I know this friend. I'm so excited. I did.

Yeah, and I can't wait to hear what you both think of this film. I loved it. It's very much in the tradition of Christopher Guest, mockumentaries. Brilliant. If you're into Beston's show and that vibe of comedy, then're going to love Theodore Camp. I had a great time with it. I really can't wait. We've got another one, Theatre Camp, Deanna and Rihanna. Theatre Camp is not usually the sort of film I would specifically choose to watch at the cinema. I feel like

there's a theme here, but a combination of my enjoyment of musical theatre and the fact that there was an advanced screaming happening on a raffery evening made me feel compelled to give it a try. Although at times it pokes fun at the whole scenario of some theatre camps, it's done with such obvious love and understanding of them and those who the camps cater for that it was simply a joy to watch. The characters were on the whole, well-rounded, the jokes came thick and fast with many a laugh out loud moment. Although the mockumentary format seemed to be forgotten about it times. Do you agree with that? Not from memory, no.

And things were wrapped up a little too neatly perhaps. It was a joyous, often hilarious film that deserved to be seen, most likely multiple times as Robbie himself suggested. Up with a rousing musical finale and down all that other stuff, that's from Daniel Tuck in Dundee! Thank you so much, Daniel. So at number 12 in the UK, number 31 in the US, I'm pretty impressed with that, actually. Really happy. It's scrapper. So this is from Bracoolhurst on our YouTube channel, Wept all the way through. The Dickinson is one of the most watchable actors ever agreed. Very hard agrees. So agree with that. I'm obsessed with him. Didn't like the documentary style bits or the spider nonsense, but the two leads and the direction

and script just gorge. I have to say it was such a mishmash of genres, which did slightly irritate me. Oh, I love that. I wanted more of each and there wasn't enough of any I felt. I actually felt the complete opposite. It worked for me because I mean I was already full disclosure going in a mega fan of Charlotte Reagan. I should have loved her because I was like please let me see as soon as it's finished yeah exactly I love her work her short films he comes in incredible and she has so many of them which is just you know she's offensively talented but I did actually, because I'm not a big fan of kitchen saying dramas, and I think she's tried to really quietly and elegantly kind of subvert the genre by including, like, confusing with all this magical realist stuff, all the kind of flights of fancy.

It's whimsical without ever falling into quirky. I absolutely loved it. I'm so glad it's doing well at a box office. I feel like the spiders were quirky, but I, on the whole, I agree. Conor Sykes on our YouTube channel has said, strong-migory with Robbie, the film overall has its ups and downs,

but for the most part, it's entertaining and does more than enough to justify the short runtime. Oh, I don't think you ever need to justify a short runtime. I love a short film. That's a very good reason to go to the cinema. Very best moments are those between just Georgie and her dad as they play off each very good reason to go to the cinema. Very best moments are those between just Georgie and her dad as they play off each other and try to suss the other one out. The train station scene was a masterful use of timing. If you've not seen Scrapper,

make sure you do. At UK number 10, US number 6, it's Strais and this is from someone on our YouTube channel who has a very complicated name full of numbers and letters. I'm not going to read it out. It was just said, I just walked out of strays after an hour waiting for it to be funny. Oh, that's it. This is one of the worst films I have ever seen. I do stand up and this reminds me of those awful open mics you do when you're starting out

and half the line up is guys in their 20s who just think the awful stories they tell their mates down the pub when they're all drunk, a comedy gold. I know who you mean, that's fair. Um, just no. Whoever even imagined this movie was worth writing, financing, filming, voicing on the paying public. Great use of litteration.

It needs to take a good hard look at themselves. Mark has it right when he says there are so many more things about dogs are funnier than this film's relentless reliance on funning, pooping and peeing gags. I need to lie down now. Well thank you so much. I actually didn't mind Strais because I knew exactly what it was going to be. I knew the talent in it. I knew exactly what to expect. It was like sausage party with dogs. Oh. Very base humour. It kind of completely does what it says on the tin if you know who's behind it. I think it worked. Don't take your kids to see this film about dogs though, whatever you do. Are you going number nine? Gosh, this is still in the UK. Top 10. US number 20 is Elemental,

which I think was just a very sweet, maybe slightly forgettable, It's elemental, which I think was just a very sweet, maybe slightly forgettable animation about the Asian diaspora, which I thought had some really lovely moments in it. And gorgeous visuals, but I do think that the love story could have been a little bit stronger. UK number eight, not charted in the US,

is the blackening. Why is this not charted in the US? That's really interesting. Is it not out there yet, perhaps? I haven't had the chance to see it myself because there was a way Walla was screening. Is it funny or is it scary? Is it a bit of both? Well, you know me, I'm a complete wimp, so I get frightened by anything. So yeah, I found a couple of moments really quite terrifying. I think the whole idea of it is more about kind of social commentary on just black characters in movies because they're always the first to die. So how does that work when you have a full cast of black actors? So that's really clever. There are some really nice moments in this. I feel like the comedy

and the horror could have been pushed to the extreme so much more. But otherwise, like a pretty neat little horror film. And number seven in the UK, number 11 in the US is Mission Impossible, a dead reck, part one, Anna. Well, we spoke about it last time, we're together. Um, not my favorite of the Mission Impossible films, kind of surprising that it's not done as well as the other films. I'm personally frustrated by this trend

of separating one story into two very long films. Agreed. But if you're into Ethan Hunt, if you're like action movies, it's a great time. Yeah, I love this actually. I think it just fell foul of the whole barbenheimer. Yeah, right? It was a very strange release choice. Yeah. Yeah. UK number six, US number 12, it's haunted mansion. A good time. I had fun with this. I had fun with this. I think my expectations were extremely low, but it's just like

Heath Stanfield, that man can convince you of anything. Why are you racing? I just, no, I just really can't be a car. That's, it was happening without you noticing. It's exactly what it says in the tin. I, I enjoyed it. I think for something that's based on a ride that I have never been on, I know that there's tons of fans

around the world that are really into the haunted mansion mythology, including Mr. Ryan Gosling, big fan. Wow. Yes. Good fan. Look up that on YouTube. It's quite fun. But yeah, mainly because of the lead cast, mainly because of LaKieh, it's a nice time.

I think it's appropriate for kids, which is always hard to judge because I don't have kids, but I think it really saddles kind of this child spooky atmosphere. I think it's genuinely frightening for children in a great way. Yeah, it's not scary. It's just spooky vibes. I find everything scary for children in a great way. Yeah, it's not scary. It's just spooky vibes. I find everything scary. It was a bit scary.

UK number five, US number five, it's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Mutant Mayhem. And I really wish I'd got you to read that out, because that's my favorite thing. But I know you loved this film. I loved it a lot. Yeah. We reviewed it on the show together, and I was pleasantly surprised. Again, expectations, rock bottom, had a great time still listening to the soundtrack.

Excellent. Number four in the UK, number three in the US, it's Blue Beetle. We have an email from Jordan in London who says, I just wanted to chime in on Blue Beetle and how refreshing I found watching a back-to-basic superhero film. All too often recently, these films

have felt the need to go bigger and higher stakes to the point where it feels like everyone has world-ending, if not multiverse-ending, threats. Reading comic books as a kid, these threats were quite rare with lots of stories in between with plenty of character development, so when these massive events came around, you were already invested. Blue Beetle reminds me of reading those comics. Jaime isn't concerned about the fate of the galaxy yet he wants his family to be able to keep their house and save his neighbourhood. He's threatened by a tech billionaire, not an intergalactic god that eats planets. That feels very loaded, Jordan. I felt more invested

in the Reyes family after one movie than I do in the Avengers after dozens. There it is, because they have struggles we can understand and reflect our own lives. It's a shame this movie doesn't seem to have made as much money as some others. I'd love to spend more time with these characters. Yes, the CGI's a bit chunky in places. Is it? Yeah, yeah. Nobody's going to be nominated for Best Actor for this film.

Are they? No. And it's nothing that we haven't seen before, but it has a lot of heart and is very fun. Down with billionaires using their wealth for ill and up with machine-gun wielding revolution renowness. Thank you, Jordan. That does actually happen. I kind of agree with Jordan. I again, I'm at that point, I think, where we are as a culture too, where we're kind of really tired of the superhero format and the ever-expanding, never-ending universes. So, Blue Beetle is better than average,

but still very average. I think the email is completely on point because we spend the majority of the film with the Reyes family, and we get to know them them and their reality is very grounded. It's a much better time because they invest some more time in characters rather than the CGI. Then the mythology, once that comes in into the second half, it follows a lot more closely the blueprint of the superhero movie. It gets very messy, there's a lot of bad special effects, like shapes, computer pixels, finding each other. And frankly, and I think this might just be my own chip on the shoulder. I could not stop thinking of the Giver because the transformation of the blue beetle is exactly like the transformation of the Giver, which

please DM me, say stuff in the comments because I think that I might be me and people at Arrow Film so I think only people who care about this one 90s movie with Mark Hamill, where an American student in Japan gets transformed into like a defender from outer space because this bug-shaped metallic thing gets implanted into the back of his deck surrounds him and goo and then he becomes like a metallic superhero called the Giver. It's great. Look up the transformation on YouTube. Okay.

You've asked for it. UK number three, US number seven. It's Meg two. Great time in the movies. Garbage fish, par excellence. It's not as good as the Meg. The Meg wasn't good. I don't, I think there is a different quality that I'm talking about. It's not good good, but it's a giant shark movie.

Is it good enough? Does it deliver in the giant shark nest? Well, there is a giant shark nest. Yes, right, well, exactly. Now the Meg 2, I feel like under-delivered on the giant shirkness? Well, there is a giant shirk. All right. Well, exactly. Now, the Meg II, I feel like under delivered on the giant shirkness. Okay. So, it's less good than the Meg or the Blue Sea.

Okay. I have it. I have it. I have it. Okay. UK number two, US number four is Oppenheimer and UK number one and US number two, it's Barbie. So I feel like we have talked this to death on this very podcast. But if you really still want more Barb and Hymer, is that what it's even called?

I've lost. I've lost all sense now. It's become one of those words I've said so many times. We will never stop talking about Barb and Hymer. Well, if you want to hear more of it, do go back and listen to our Barb and Hymer special from a few weeks ago. And let's know what you thought as well. People are still messaging me and having only just gone to see Barbie.

But I love this, I'm glad it's continuing. Anyway, thank you so much, we will be back after this. This episode is brought to you by Mooby, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe. From myConnect directors to emerging otters, there's always something new to discover, for example. Well, for example, the new Aki Karazaki film Fallen Leaves, which won the jury prize at Cannes, that's in cinemas at the moment. If you see that and think I want to know more about Aki Karazaki, you can go to Mooby the streaming service and there is a retrospective

of his films called How to Be a Human. They are also going to be theatrically releasing In January Priscilla, which is new so for a couple of films, which I am really looking forward to since I have an Elvis obsession. You can try Mooby free for 30 days at Mooby.com slash You're flying to meet with a new supplier to keep your business growing. End with the business platinum card from American Express. You can earn $820 a new value and more, which includes a $200 travel credit toward your flight. Now, boarding business class. American Express, don't do business without it. Terms and conditions apply visit mx.ca slash business platinum.

Time now for our second guest today is Antoine Fuqua, who is an American film director who you may know about his work in the action and thriller genres. So he made his film debut in 1998 with the replacement killers and a big breakthrough was training day in 2001. Now he's directed the third of the equalizer series and you're going to hear my interview with him after this clip and just a reminder that if it ends abruptly it's because there's more to come in take to to little tease for you. Who are you?

What were you doing on that farm in Sicily? All you want to do is just a guy at best. Passing through. That's right. You don't want to play games with me. Just having my teeth. Police found multiple dead bodies on that vineyard. You kill him?

I look like a guy who kills people. I'm warming to the possibility. Too shit. Stick around. We're just getting started. Me too. McCall. Very good.

Two C's, two L's. And that was a clip from the Equalizer 3, and I'm delighted to be joined by its director Antoine Fuqua. Hello! Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me. So it was a delight for me to return to the world of the equalizer and of course to Robert McCall, but could you start off by briefly introducing audiences to the world of the equalizer

three? Well, equalizer three is about Robert McCall who travels to Italy to write a wrong, and when he gets there he finds himself having to help some people who can't help themselves in a small village in the coast of Medellin. It's got such an interesting pace for an action movie because initially we see the aftermath of a really brutal scene and it's shot so beautifully, you know, we kind of we see the sun through the dust and the rays and it's kind of this gorgeous setting. And then we see what actually happens, the brutality of that a little bit later. So tell us about your decision to film it that way around.

Well, it's interesting because you know, we, uh, equalize a one and two or do the shot where we go into his eye. But because equalize a three is more about his own internal struggles, I decided to not show you how he, without giving anything away, how he got into the farm and then show you later as he's thinking about who he is as a violent man. So because obviously there are so many incredible, well-designed kills in the film, seeing the aftermath of it first was really interesting. So how did you kind of decide, how did you sort of sketch that out if you like, in terms of what you wanted to show the audience of all the different

ways that Robert knows how to kill a guy? Well, that's all one single shot, uh, traveling through the house. So I decided with my D.P. to be better better to show the after effects of the violence, you know, with all the different tools he used, present, without showing you, to save something for later as well. You know, I don't want to give it all away. You know, got to bait you a little bit. We were definitely baited. And the film kind of feels a bit kind of way to you, in that we find Robert in this kind

of turmoil, he's kind of questioning the bit kind of weightier in that we find Robert in this kind of turmoil. He's kind of questioning the morality of his vigilanteism. And so why is it time for this character to have a bit of a reckoning with himself and a bit of a shift from what we've seen before? Well, an equalizer one that was more about him finding his purpose equalizer to is about making peace with his past.

An equalizer three being that he's all alone now his wife past Susan's dead His friends betrayed him He's in a darker place and he has to make a decision about is he doing this more for himself the violence to help people Or is it really truly for the sake of other people? So he has that he has an internal struggle and for those who might not know, what, you know, every sort of hitman that we see on screens kind of has a code. So what is McCall's code? I think this code would be, it's about helping those who can help themselves without recognition,

without payment. You know, his whole code would be, he has an honor. There's honor in what he does. What's his reward, do you think? Knowing that people are satisfied with justice. Yes. Denzel has got the most incredible face. I will never tire of watching him on our screen. So can you tell us about why Robert McCall needs Denzel's humanity and humor and why it's important that the two are inextricably linked? Well, Denzel himself is obviously a great person. He's a good friend of mine as well. But he actually does things for a lot of people without taking credit. You know, there's a lot of things he does that I know but he'll never admit to where he helps a lot of people. Robert McCall is the same guy really.

Obviously he does it. He's a brutal justice individual, I guess it's the best way to say it, but he's a human being, he reminds of people you know. He's just a normal guy. He's not, you know, he's not fancy. He's not, doesn't have a cap a cape or anything. He's very humble. You know, so he's a normal guy.

Actually, speaking of cape, he doesn't have a cape, but he does, his outfit in this is so particular. He has his hat, he has his cane, know, his that long shirt that he wears. So can you tell us a little bit about the look of Robert McCall in this film? It's really about simplicity. His look is always in black. He's got a bigger shirt on. He's very comfortable, things like that.

You never know what he might have under that shirt. But he, in this one, in Italy, he gets talked into buying some hat and some clothes, a little more color in it, you know, reluctantly he buys it and you know, kind of likes it, you know. It works, we have. As you keep saying, you know, the film is set in Sicily, Rosalind in the US, like in the previous films. And it's such a, you know, it is such a break. I mean, it's a cliche to say that a location is a character in the film, but I think in this,

it certainly holds true. So what was your, I know you weren't necessary so versed in Italy in the same way that Denzel was. So can you tell us what you loved about bringing Italy to the fore and what you really wanted to bring out of that culture? Well, Italy is such a beautiful place, as you know. Denzel actually introduced me to a out of that culture? Well Italy is such a beautiful place as you know. Denzel actually introduced me to a lot of places in Italy that I started to travel

before we filmed there years ago. But it's just such a, it feels like going back in time, places on their Moffee Coast houses up in the mountain. It's just art everywhere you look. But it's really about the people, you know, the small fishermen, towns, people who are just farmers who plant olives, you know, it's such a beautiful way of life. And it felt like it was very Robert McCall, the simplicity of it, you know, the beauty of it put the camera anywhere and it's just gorgeous, right? And it says something about the history of Italy. So I couldn't pick the better place. And part of that history is of course the food, because you know, there is nothing better

I don't think than Italian cuisine. Oh, food, the wine, come on. Yeah, so like the Camorra standing in the kitchen eating spaghetti while they're plot how to kill Robert. It's everyday life, you know, you eat while you just start killing the that's their business. I think that was the way they were. Um, so in terms of in terms of that food and that lifestyle, what did you want to show? We have Robert sitting in the coffee shop and we have Enzo, this lovely doctor who invites him into his home, prepares him this feast. We see fish.

You teach us about fish even in this film. So for you, what was the most important thing to teach your audiences about the food from Italy? That is a social event. You share it with your friends, you share it with people, you share it with the old 80s, it brought them a lemon. It's meant to be shared and to be enjoyed with your friends.

And it's crystal- And it's delicious. And it's crystal- And it's meant to be shared and to be enjoyed with your friends. And it's cool. Delicious. Yes. And it's crucial that the Sicilian characters speak to each other in their own language. Was there ever a pushback against that? Or do you think the audiences are actually much more comfortable now with multi-lingual films? Because this does feel multi-lingual.

I believe audience are much more comfortable with it. You know, the world is much smaller now with the internet and everything, right? We're seeing things from around the world watching the white lotus, which was a big hit, where it was all in Italy as well. So those sort of things, I think, help introduce the world to get used to hearing the language and reading the subtitles. It just seems like it's much more authentic to the place. Is that a road challenge for you when you're directing an

language that isn't your own? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Because trying to get the emotions right and then talking to the translator to make sure the inflections are all right and the dialogue is right. But also because Italy is all different Italian, which I didn't know. Naples has a rougher edge to it. Rome is one thing, right? Amoffie is another thing, more southern. So I had to get used to, my ear had to get used to each different texture and rhythm, and then I had to get used to that with my crew, of course, you know.

texture and rhythm, and then I had to get used to that with my crew, of course, you know. But it takes time, it makes you slow down quite a bit, and pay much more attention to all the details of the language. That was Antoine Fouquard talking all about the equalizer three, big fan of Denzel in this, a big fan of Sicily, I really loved it. I was just so happy to just spend time. This is not what I was expecting from an equalizer movie. I was like, oh, it's just gonna be like, action, action, action, killing, killing, killing. And it was Denzel sitting with a coffee and a napkin.

And I was like, yes, why is there not more of this? You know how the trip is? Yes. It's like, it's two men eating their wings. There is it in the trip. It's Rob, Rob, Brian, Steve Guggen. Yeah, Rob, Brian, Steve Guggen. Yes. And I was like, I screwed them.

Yeah. Bring on Denzel, just kind of like sitting in cafes in Italy. A three hour movie of Denzel Washington just having a tea and reading a book in a small town in Sicily. Up for it. He's so charismatic. He just draws all eyes.

And when he smiles, it feels so earned. And I love that. I just love his smile. I love Denzel. Tell me, did you love this movie? I really enjoyed it. So let me kind of tell you where I'm coming from here because I knew of the equalizer, but I had not seen any of the three movies.

So I watched the first one to kind of get to know the character, really enjoyed that. Yeah, just a perfectly formed little standalone action rom. I love a bit of those really brutal, really violent're really loved, love how violent these films are. And obviously, Denzel is just an unimpeachable actor. So I recently watched him in Malcolm X, Spike Lee's film on the big screen at the film and film festival. Just give me seven hours of Denzel Washington doing stuff.

We'll lap it up. But I had not seen the second one, and I kind of did that on purpose because I'm thinking it's the third one. And I kind of did that on purpose because I'm thinking it's the third one in a trilogy of action films. Do I need to do listeners need to see the two previous ones in order to enjoy three?

The answer is no. Yeah, it absolutely does stand alone. And I actually quite like this, many franchise of action films because on the one hand, it's quite interesting that Antoine Fuqua has directed all three of them. Usually they depart after setting the tone.

It's a continuation of his creative collaboration with Denzel obviously starting with Training Day, which coincidentally is also in cinema now and re-release, good times for Denzel fans. Yeah, never seen that on the big screen. Me either and everything wanna see it on the big screen properly. And it works as a standalone. And there's something, want to see it on the big screen properly. And it works

as a standalone. And there's some say, I don't know if you got this feeling. It's incredibly violent. Yeah. The thing that I really loved about it, why I had a good time with it, is he's kind of just a nosy person. Robert Roberto in the film, he's kind of just, he's incapable of mining his own business. Even though he keeps saying that he just wants to mine his own business. Robert, you're not. You've spent three movies getting involved in other people's business. I don't even know you. Yeah, you don't know them. They don't know you. You have no business with their affairs.

But you insert yourself in their drama because the character decides that it's a moral or wrong in some way and he wants to write things. Small things. And I kind of love that that is the central goofy aspect of it. There's no bigger thing. I think one of the equalizer three kind of falls flat a little bit for me is when they try to expand this world and make it more into a conspiracy and the CIA is involved and all this like other jazz.

And I know the central character is a retired intelligence officer, which is where he gets all his mad killing skills from and his deep insecurity about his own goodness as a human being. Great material, but it's not that deep. Yeah, I get what you mean. I think I really enjoyed the Kumora, because obviously we see, we have an idea of what the mafia looks like,

and I think they did a very heavily tattooed, hard Italian. That's what the mafia looks like. Yes, this is what it looks like. When they're all sitting around, eating spaghetti while they're planning how to kill Robert, I just, that was a perfect scene. It was just, because we never see. Like we never see them McDonald's. Like if

it was in England, right, it would be like McDonald's in a garage. That was where they'd be plotting. This is like bowls of spaghetti around a really lovely bit of marble in an Italian kitchen. It's quite stereotypical. It's brilliant. I absolutely loved it. What are stereotypes if not having a grain of truth in this? Is that not what the Camoradus? I mean, I would never know when they frankly do not wish to know. I do not want to get involved in other people's business. I'm fine.

What did you think of the re-initying of Dakota fanning and Denzel Washington since Manel Fire? Oh, I have not seen Manel Fire. Oh, okay. But now that you mentioned it, I guess it has a little bit more gravitas than I gave it, what happened to Dakota Fanning? Where is she up to?

I haven't seen her in a long time. She's been a bit overshadowed by her little sister, right? Yeah, that's true. Although it was great to see her return. Yeah, I really liked Dakota Fanning and I think I always forget how much I like her until I see and I'm like, oh, she's pretty close. It was a good reminder that she was amazing. Yes.

But I tell you one, you know how I mentioned that I'm not a fan of this divvying up one story into two overlong films. The equalizer's kind of a good antidote for that. It's one story. It's like quite a fairly simple character. It's a very standalone premise. Each one of the movies is a standalone story. So you go in, you don't need to, you don't need any other knowledge.

The movie gives you all the ingredients to enjoy it. I give you the flashbacks as well. It does. You need them. So you know exactly, and it works even if you don't get the flashbacks. There's like one or two little illusions to the first to some side characters in the first film. They don't really matter that much.

So this is my greatest endorsement of this film is that if you're into action and if you're into action films, this is a perfectly enjoyable film. Obviously, Denzel is a massive one of our greatest movie stars. So if you're a fan of Denzel, you like it. If you're a fan of action movies, you like it. I don't know if there's a big equalizer hive on the internet. I'm sure they're gonna do it. Yeah, I mean, I think the kills are so beautifully choreographed, and I love the drama that Robert McCool brings, because he seems so unassuming, and yet he has this real flair for the dramatic

that he loves to crack out every so often. And I kind of love the humour in this, because it's embedded in such a different way than something like Mission Impossible which might be like a one-liner or the joke here is this aging action hero who is actually still very believable as somebody who could potentially bring down all of these much younger villains. I did, did make me wonder, we've got, I've just got an email about the expendables for which is coming up. We're quite used to seeing older action men on our screens, obviously Tom Cruise. And what about action women?

Like where are the kind of aging female actors who can do this kind of stuff, who are given these sorts of roles? Do they exist? And if they don't, is it because we wouldn't believe it? Or why wouldn't we? Well, I can only think, I mean, would you even categorize Shirley Saronas and aging action star? Because she is an action star in her own brain.

I actually don't know how Shirley Saron is. I don't know either. And the internet is not working, so we can't look it up. But I also think of Helen Marin has had some involvement with the fast franchise. I believe she's an expandable. She's in red. Yeah, she read.

That's the one. Yeah. But yeah, I can think of more people while Angela Bassard, although she's done a bit of action, although that's obviously not what we know her for. Similarly with Denzel, he's done action. But he's just so much bigger than just one genre. Who else am I thinking of? Because these films do exist, but they're a few and fall between.

It would be interesting to kind of watch a few actors as they get older to see if they will kind of hold that same space that people like Tom Cruise, Denzel, Bruce Willis back in the day have had. It'd be nice to see that. Well, it's an interesting, I'm just thinking now, out loud and we don't have time to go deep into this thought of what is happening with the genre as it is, you know, because all of these ageing 1980s and 90s action stars that have, that are leading these big franchises,

I don't think it's because they are ageing action stars, it's because they're biging action stars. It's because they're big movie stars who are sometimes known for their action roles or sometimes you don't know them for their action fair. So it becomes kind of an incongruous appeal to see them perform those kind of stunts and those roles. But where is the genre as a whole? Like, we've had quite a lot of really big new franchises and successes in that space. Most of them have been male lead. They are great female characters, but they tend to be secondary surely is is one of the few that has led her own, you know, atomic blonde and a couple of others,

her own um standalone action films, but they have not become franchises yet. No interesting food for thought. It's time for the ads in just a minute Anna, but first it's time to step once again into our laugh delift. Oh god. Prepare yourself. Hey Anna! Yeah, the- I can't even get through this one. The video and podcast producer, editor, slash creator,

and host of the evolution of horror podcast is going to be really angry when he finds out I've replaced Albert with a trampoline He's gonna hit the roof I'm not sure if you know this Anna, but I'm actually writing my autobiography at the moment In fact, I accidentally glued myself to a manuscript of it the other day Mike doesn't believe me, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it No, no. No. Anna, I had a really depressing email from an un...

Anna, I had a really depressing email from an unhappy friend who lives in the center of America in a location boarded by Iowa to the North, Illinois, Kentucky, and Tennessee to the east, Arkansas to the South, and Oklahoma, Kansas, and Nebraska to the south and Oklahoma canzes and Nebraska to the west. She says she's in a constant state of misery, misery. I would like a refund for my time. Anyway, what still to come? Well, we've got our last review of Take One Sound of Freedom. We're going to be back after this, unless you're a Vanguardista, in which case, we have just one question. A girl has as many brothers as sisters, but each brother has only half as many brothers as sisters. How many brothers and sisters are there in the family?

With banking packages from Scotia Bank, you can put money back in your pocket. That's how Marcus was able to invest in everything he needed to launch his podcast. About his pets. Welcome back to PetGasd! Visit Scotiabank.com slash welcome offer, Scotiabank conditions apply. Metrolinx and cross links are reminding everyone to be careful as Eglinton Cross-Town LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert, this trains can pass at any time on the tracks.

Remember to follow all traffic signals. Be careful along our tracks and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. For those of you still scratching your heads, the answer is of course four sisters and three brothers. Obviously. Obviously. Obviously. So it is time for our sound of freedom review and there is so much to talk about with this particular movie. So let's start with our review. So to kick off, I'm told that there's been requests to review this film.

You mentioned it a little bit before. And just to clarify, the main reason why it's being reviewed this week and not in the week of the 4th of July, just when it got released in the US, is because now it's when it's being released in the UK and the show follows the UK release schedule. It's not a conspiracy. Yeah, Mark and Simon weren't like,

absolutely not, we're not covering this. They were just waiting until it was released here. Now, I've thought a lot about how to approach this review. And it's quite a difficult one because, so to preface this, I, as a critic, I don't believe in objectivity because that is literally the opposite of review. You're giving your opinion, your opinion is informed about who you are as a person, where you stand in your life. Your biases, your experience, everything that makes you

as a person. And the other thing as well as that when you're given a platform to review films, you also have a level of responsibility, and that is reflected in not just what your review says, but what you pick to cover and how you cover it, how much time you give it, how you speak about it. I think it's impossible to talk about sound of freedom as a standalone movie by divorcing

it from its context. I do genuinely believe that it's impossible to talk about it as a standalone film. I wish it were possible, but it's just not. This, the only reason we're reviewing this film, or why people I even talking about it as a standalone film. I wish it were possible, but it's just not. This, the only reason we're reviewing this film, or why people even talking about it, is not because of its quality or lack of quality, or its star power, or its director. It's because it is wrapped up in a political controversy that Bell stems from its association or some might say co-option by far right leaning political figures such as former president Donald Trump who is very publicly endorsed this film and by people who subscribe to very intense, very far-fetched online conspiracy

theories about there being a cabal of politicians, Hollywood movie stars, and financiers who operate a child sex trafficking ring. Now if you want to enjoy going down the rabbit hole of QAnon online, please be my guest. Go for it. Go for it. There's a lot on there. But it does make it unbelievably hard to talk about this film. And it's unfortunate, and I've read interviews with the director where he

bemoans the fact that it is now wrapped up in something that is not actually in the text of the film. Now it's complicated because the film stars a certain Mr. Jim Kavizel, who is very publicly aligned himself with the conspiracy theories endorsed by Keonon, Amboton Altrump, and is not just in almost every single frame of the movie, but is obviously in the promotional train of the movie in continuing to talk about these theories. If you recognize the name, he played Jesus in a Mel Gibson's The Passion of Jesus. Yes.

So the film itself, if you try to divorce it from everything else, which I've tried by, I don't believe it's possible, is quite a box standard action thriller about this sort of savior figure, very, very knowingly casting Jim Cavizol, Blue-eyed blonde head. Yes, blue-American.

Very all-American, former military, former intelligence officer who rallies against his superiors, because he wants to single-handedly dismantle a perverse sex trafficking ring operating out of Columbia. And the way that the movie deploys this plot is by making him fixated in two specific childrens, two siblings who have been captured and are being used as part of this trafficking ring and he saves the boy. And then he, the rest of the movie, is been trying to save the girl by orchestrating a big, convoluted plot involving financiers and ex-sex traffickers

who have repented and building a sex hotel. I'm not even joking, this is what actually happens. Now, the film is problematic just in the text of itself because it is supposedly operating as this call to action to end sex trafficking, particularly kind of rings of child trafficking. But it has also been lambasted by charities and experts in the field who are actually doing real life work trying to end human trafficking around the world by saying the film indulges

in, and it does from the very beginning with a montage of kids being snatched on the street by strangers in white vans. Was that real? Was that like that was that was all active, active for a change? I believe so. But also research shows and experts have said that it's dangerously promoting this image that it's the stranger danger, right, that it's strangers on the street who will physically kidnap kids and put them into these into slate into sexual slavery. Child trafficking and human trafficking in any form is very complex, very political, motivated, very much has to do with kind of personal economic social circumstances, much more to do with just like evil people

snatching kids from the street. And the film also quite, I think, disgustingly indulges in sort of the gaze of child traffickers and we're made to see a lot of kids posing for sexualized pictures that have been sold of them. Not a fan of watching that in a movie and I do find it really contradictory

and kind of wrong-headed that then the movie ends with this series of texts that are telling us how much this character Tim Ballard, who's a real person who you can look up, he's a real-life activist who has founded and then exited several organizations that were designed to save and combat child trafficking around the world. It very much elevates him into this position of kind of white saver who is going into different countries and this moving, this case, Colombia and saving the kids almost single-handedly,

because he is the moral figure, the all-American moral figure who takes it upon himself to be the beacon of light and justice in this depraved world. That's one of the many issues I have with it. The other thing is that, like I mentioned before, I find it problematic to talk about this film on this platform because when you pick a film to platform and to talk about, you are not only promoting it, you are giving people the choice or giving them the indication they should part with their money and their time and vote with their wallets and go and see something or not. Now, there is an interesting side to this story where this film has taken quite A different approach to a distribution like the reason it's coming out quite late is because it got

You know lost in the shuffle of one company acquiring another one and it you know Release schedules are quite kind of complicated strategic decisions is coming out now It came out in fourth of July in the States and at the end of the film, we did not experience this because we saw this film on a screen owing. In cinemas, there was a two-minute video that shows directly after the film has ended on these pieces of text, like I mentioned, that are elevating and promoting the work of Tim Ballard and the work of the film. It's asking people to scan a QR code and essentially paid forward so buy tickets for people who quote might not otherwise be able to see the film. That has put that has worked that has put the film in a very very high

box office numbers. It cracked I think 20 million in its first week out and released in the States. It's been third after Barbie and Openheimer, which is quite a significant achievement that cannot be underestimated its money, but has that translated into bombs on seats? The seats were sold by where people watching it. That in itself has been feeding into the conspiracy around it and the frankly like quite antagonistic political wrapping around this film of our people trying to prevent people from seeing Sound of freedom. They're not This scheme. Yeah is working because it's it's getting money. It's selling tickets

But it does not mean that human eyeballs are using those tickets to watch this film. Now, because of these different things that are surrounding this movie, it's getting too much air for what it actually is. What it actually is is a sea level action thriller with very unthoughtful choices, directorially, with a very really zealous kind of celebrity at the helm, with delusions of grandeur and moralizing over things that it actually has not spent any time investigating or any time delving

deep into it. So it is careless and thoughtless, but it is deliberately provocative. And it's provocative in a way that I find this datefall at the least and dangerous at the worst. So that was masterfully done Anna. Thank you so much for giving us the surrounding context as well because I agree it's incredibly important. I wanna just hear a little clip from the film and then I'm just gonna really briefly mention a couple of the issues that I had with the film itself. It is the fastest growing international crime

that worked out the world has ever seen. It has already passed the illegal warms trade and soon it's gonna pass the truck trade These you can sell a bag of cocaine one time for the child five to ten times a day God's children are not for sale We're homeland security you know we can't go off rescuing Honduran kids in Colombia Which means you you disappear for good. Imagine walking in Honduran right now, singing empty bed, all you do.

You quit your job and you go and rescue those kids. So, you also heard there, Mara Savino, who was intrinsic in bringing about the Me Too movement and calling out Harvey Weinstein. So there's so many complexities going on in terms of the actual filming of this and who starts in it and Bill Camp, for example, who is one of my favourite character actors who I see crop up in an off, I mean, he's been in everything from 12 years of slave to the Boston Strangler, to the Queen's Gambit, to Joker, like he's in every American film guy.

So he does, of course, put up and isn't, have quite a major role in it. There is other very beginning, if it's like what a disgusting Jewish stereotype, which for me immediately set the scene, again, opposite this blue-eyed blonde hair of American, the Jewish stereotype pedophile character at the beginning

just told me exactly what this kind of film is going to be. As in, regardless of whether or not the director wanted all of this Q&A on stuff tied up with it, he's has made some incredibly nasty decisions in this in terms of casting in terms of like, in terms of what you say, the shot.

I mean, he's picked an actor who can only do two faces. He cannot act very well in this movie. And you know, he thinks that he's doing emotional, but he's just sort of pouting doey-eyed for most of this film. He doesn't ring true for me as an all-American action hero, especially when we've seen some really decent action movies Especially when you're up in the same week as Denzel Truly so just taking it from as that it's it's a it's a mediocre film Anyway, I think wrapped up with you know, do you want to spend your money?

Where is this going? I'm really glad that you've highlighted everything that you have I think it's really important for audiences know. It kind of reminds me when Mel Gibson had a film coming out quite a few years ago now, and I refused to cover it because why I don't know, I thought I wanted to talk about a Mel Gibson film on a national stage. It's not a film that I want to give any kind of air to, But if we are giving air to this, I think it's so important that we give the context. So thank you so much. No, thank you for saying that it is, I think you vote with your money when you pick what, especially when we're talking about the attention economy and what we're investing

our time and our money into. We pick, we vote with our, with her checkbook. Yeah, that anybody uses those and I would, yeah, we pay with our contactless cards. Right. And I think kind of making them for them choices about knowing where that money is going to is quite important. I do think listeners of the take are very discerning and I think it's time to go over to them now because it is. I think the takes listeners are very discerning and it's time to go over to them anyway for what's on. Email yours to correspondence at kermodermayow.com and this is Harriet. Hi, this is Harriet from Samus that Film Festival. Samus that is Scotland's first Eastern European

and Central Asian Film Festival curating retrospective and contemporary films from across the region. We're running from the centre of four contemporary arts in Glasgow City Centre from the 12th to the 16th of September 2023 and online through our streaming partner Classique until the 5th of October. Thanks! That was Harriet from Samusat Film Festival. Do go and check them out if you're nearby or even if you're not. Go out of your way. Go and see Harriet and at the Samusat Film Festival. You can send your 22second audio trailer about your event anywhere in the world to correspondentsatcomodomeo.com and don't worry about

the spelling, I think we've got that covered. And that's the end of take one! Thank you so much Anna, thank you so much to everyone who's listened and who has kind of embraced us over the past few weeks and months, we've really loved it and loved hearing your responses. Tanya and Lee, yes. Thank you so much. I don't think I've ever received so many nice messages about when I've been on this show, so it's been a wonderful pairing. I'm going to miss doing this. I am as well. But thank you. Thank you everyone. It's been a Sony Music Entertainment production. The team was Lily Hambley, Ryan O'Meara,

Gully Tickle, Beth Perkin, was the assistant producer, Michael Dale, wrote the guest notes, Hannah Tulba was the producer, Simon Poole was the exec producer, Anna, just quickly. What was your film of the week? Irosax, passengers, of course. Nice.

I'm gonna go with equalizer three, why not? We've got take two coming up. You can hear more from our interviews, we've got more reviews of Cobweb, Clock and Luda and Otto Baxter, not an horror movie, so join us over there. Thank you.