Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Is playtime finally over for TOY STORY?

Episode Date: June 18, 2026

The Take is now on Patreon: www.patreon.com/kermodeandmayo    Become a Vanguardista or an Ultra Vanguardista to get video episodes of Take Two every week, plus member-only chat rooms, polls and submissions to influence the show, behind-the-scenes photos and videos, the monthly Redactor’s Roundup newsletter, and access to a new fortnightly LIVE show—a raucous, unfiltered lunchtime special with the Good Doctors, new features, and live chat so you can heckle, vote, and have your questions read out in real time.    The box office big beast this week is Toy Story 5, and we’re bringing you Mark’s verdict on this fifth instalment of the beloved Pixar franchise. It’s been a Take favourite since it first hit screens in the 90s and has never let us down so far, but can it really live up to the hype for the fifth film in a row?     Plus we’ve got two more reviews from this weekend’s cinema slate. First up, Welsh language drama Effi o Blaenau, which recasts a Greek tragedy plot in working-class Cardiff. And from gritty modern drama to glossy period drama, there’s Virginia Woolf’s Night and Day - an ‘unromantic comedy’ based on a comic novel by modernist literature’s most famous feminist.   It also brings us to our guest this week…     It’s Timothy Spall, who will be chatting to Simon about playing the film’s crusty old patriarch, Mr. Hilbery. One of our most respected and versatile British actors, Spall has played everyone from Winston Churchill to Wormtail, and has made several celebrated films with Mike Leigh (famously, the friendliest of all directors). This one is a meaty chat not to be missed.     Mark will be playing Mr Punchline in this week’s Laughter Lift - unfortunately unlikely to make it any funnier. Lots and lots of correspondence from you lot too, including a thorough Disclosure Day debrief. Don’t miss it!     You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo.    EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee!    A Sony Music Entertainment production.        Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts      To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail]  Timecodes:  00:07:09 Effi O Blaenau review  00:14:50 Box Office Top Ten  00:24:56 Timothy Spall interview  00:39:57 Virginia Woolf's Night and Day review  00:47:33 Laughter Lift  00:54:36 Toy Story 5 review    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Well, here we are in the same place, but I'm not quite sure. I can never remember why are we here together? Well, we're here together because I'm going to Belfast tomorrow. Yes. And so I'm here this morning, which is Tuesday, because the screening which is on, I've already seen. And I said, well, look, since we're going to be in... In the same, you know, we had a space, why don't we just, why don't we get together in that, their Theobles Road studio and fight with the internet and the air conditioning?

So what's happening for take two? I'm recording from a hotel. So today, we're together, recording take one in the same place. And then tomorrow, I'll be coming to you live from Heathrow Airport. I'm going to Belfast in October for a career retrospective. How about that? Of who? Me.

What? They've invited me. What? Yeah. How about that? 40 years of broadcasting. Who? very important people

which very important people some people down a pub no it's a proper interview and tickets and all that kind of jazz sorry i don't know all the details just yet i don't want all the details i want some of the details in october i can't remember important people at the university i think queens probably right so queen's i'm just teasing it really this is i think this is called a soft launch

okay so queens belfast have been I don't want to be specific. I have been invited. Some academic institution has invited you to go to Belfast. To be interviewed. To be interviewed. To talk about 40 years. 40 glorious years.

I'm just amazed anyone noticed, but they did. So I'm grateful. Did you notice? Yes, of course. Yeah. Well, you knew that this was the 40th anniversary of your... Just being on national radio. Because I joined Radio 1 in 86.

So... I said 40 years of national radio. Yeah. 30 years of Hurt. Jules Rimey still dreaming. I never knew. I didn't know what Jules Ramee was. I always thought it was Jules We Made

and I thought, what, that doesn't even make any sense. No, I don't know. You were listening to a football song? Well, it was on the radio all the time. True, it was. You know. And he's probably on quite a lot. And it was David Bedeleau.

I was in a band with when I was a kid. Back in the day. I don't know what that's about. So 40 years of Lerner's year. 40 years of hurt. That's the official title. This is a soft launch. I'm not quite sure.

And you're going to be interviewed? Yeah. I'm going to come over. Okay. Because my friends, Janice and Paul are in Belfast and our godless children, so that would be great. Okay, well, I can probably get you a discount. Anyway, more details to come. Yeah, no, we're going to do this every single week between now and the 40th anniversary retrospect. Making a sellout.

Yeah. I don't even know how long I've been working as a film. Well, I mean, the first film review I ever wrote was in 1980. Five, six, maybe? Oh, you're going to say it's 40 years for you too. Forty years for me, too. Then I should come. Yeah, excuse me, I should come. Anyway, I apologize to the organisers for being a feeble in knowing the fact.

Yeah. If somebody was doing a 40-year tribute to me, I would know all their names, all their addresses. I would know exactly. I could look it up, but we've only got a limited amount of time because the heat in this studio is preposterous. My argument is, if the air conditioning is on, it just sounds like we're doing an outside broadcast. Can we show them what it sounds like? Can you turn the air conditioning on so that the listening public can hear? Okay, so basically you've got two choices.

You've got what we've got now, which is swelteringly hot, but quite quiet. He's only been off for five minutes. This is gully coming in. So this is the air conditioning, all right? Okay, well, that sounds like nothing. It's hand-cranked air conditioning. Here we go. No, I don't think that's a problem myself.

I mean, listen to that. I tell you, I can add to it. I don't think that's going to help We just think we're on a 747 That is the maddest loud air conditioning ever Yeah, just leave it on for a bit That's for it Right quick, let's go through it

Okay fine What are you doing? So a really mixed week Toy Story 5 is the big release of course We'll be reviewing that Effie that's set now Welsh language film Either called Effie or Blainai

Or Effie or Blahna Depending on, because I have had a conversation with the director and the star and I said, what is the correct pronunciation? Because you're both saying it differently. They said it's because we're from different parts of Wales. We'll be getting to that. Could it be called Effie or Jeffie? Effie of Jeffieffey. That's right. Yes. That's our version. And Virginia Woolf's night and day with our very, very special guest. Who is Tim Spoor? Fantastic Tim. We're going to be speaking to Tim. And a bonus review in Take Two, Mark. Two bonus reviews.

We have Nino and Lesbian Space Princess. So that's all to look forward to in Take Two. Is that a comedy or is, what is that? Take a wild guess. a spoof? No. Well, you know, a satirical animation. Oh, okay. Yeah.

You can get Take 2 with no more of our brilliant ads by heading to our Patreon page. We are running a 90% off. 90% fire somebody. Do we have? I think we probably do have to with that amount of. Anyway, it's a promotion and it's running until the end of the month. Just use the code June 90. Not Joe 90.

That doesn't work. It's June 90. He's ignored sister. At the checkout. Okay, that's very good. So before we proceed with Effie and Jeffey, an email from Alex Crockford in Cambridge. Okay.

Dear Dr. Bunsen, Honeydew and Beaker. Which one are you? I think I'll be, I'm happy to be Beaker. Okay. You have to go. Having greatly enjoyed the recent discussions of Muppet remakes of classic films, with one human actor retained,

being a contrarian, I randomly started playing the mental exercise of turning the game on its head and thinking about remakes that would work well by retaining all of the original cast still playing it completely straight but adding one Muppet.

Okay, very good. I think this is even a, I think this is a better game. Three that I thought would work particularly well were number one, a Muppet on the Orient Express. I preferred the Lume version but the Brannard cast

would be easier to reunite. Kermit would play Poirot and they could even keep all the bits where the snooty suspects refer to him as that peculiar little frog. So, well done. Very good. Also, Les Miserables with Sam the Eagle as Javert.

Now, that's a very good idea. I would definitely. Very, very good. And the King of Comedy with Fossey Bear, stepping into De Niro's shoes. What do you think? Well, I mean, I think Fossey Bear is a very, very good choice for King of Comedy, because as we know, that's my favourite of those.

I absolutely love that movie. And it gives me an opportunity to say, Simon, do your Fuzzy Bear. Ha ha, ha, ha, yeah, ha, Douglas Heard, Forest Secretary. Anyway, it's brilliant. I'm going to have to have a drink now. But he may as just Sam the Eagle as Javert. Titwillow, titwillow, titwillow. Right, Eiffin and Jeff, and here we go.

Quick before we get too hot. Okay, so Efe, either a blindna or a blanae, okay, depending. North or South. Yes, or I think it's even more specific than that. So this is the new film from Mark Evans. Now, Mark Evans is director whose work I loves. Feature credits include Resurrection Man, which was this kind of vampiric, northern Irish movie.

The In Vertical comedy comedy, My Little Horror Movie, My Little Lie, which I loved, the psychological thriller, Trauma, with a brilliant performance by Colin Firth, which Colin Firth always says he thinks it's one of his best movies. And Patagonia, which is this kind of Welsh-Argentine drama. And then most recently he did the early life Richard Burton thing, Mr. Turner. Yes. For which we interviewed, did we interview Toby? We did Toby Jens.

Toby Noby, fine. So I think he's one of the UK's most versatile director. He's one of my personal favourite. So this new film is based on a Gary Owen, one woman play, Iphaginia, in Splot, which itself is based very loosely on the Greek myth of Iphaginia. Do you know the Greek myth of Ivergenia? If you remind me of the salient points. Agamemnon's daughter becomes a sacrificial deer in order to speed the Greek fleet.

So it's a thing about somebody being sacrificed for it. And in this, in the play, the whole thing is that this character says, I think actually in the play addresses the audience as I took a bullet for you. So the original source was English language modern drama played out on a single stage. The film has an ensemble cast, moves the action from Cardiff to what Mark Evans says up north, where the Welsh language is, he says, in the blood, in the slate. And it now displays from houses to clubs, to hospitals, to ambulances, to wild and Windy Hills and Morland. So it expands the canvas of the source, but it still absolutely revolves

around a single powerhouse performance. In this case, Lisa Gwenghian. So she plays Effie, Effie of Blanae, or Blana, which is a hard scrabble, Welsh-speaking community in West Inda, which according to a BBC report has, quote, the highest proportion of highly deprived neighbourhoods in all of Wales. So she's a tough kid. She's been through COVID, is now determined to grab life by the horns, wants to enjoy herself drinking, partying, getting wasted, all to the disapproval of her grandmother. She has a best friend, Leanne, and then a kind of drag-along, sort of on-off boyfriend called Kev. Kev clearly loves her, but it's not reciprocal. And she is, again, according to Mark Evans, who I interviewed about the film, she's connected to her phone,

but essentially isolated. One night out, she goes to a club and she meets Lee, played by Tom Reese Harris, who is this handsome, charismatic guy who doesn't want to dance, but he's happy to talk. And I'm going to play you a clip. It's a Welsh language clip. And I know some of our listeners may speak Welsh, but many won't. So here's what you're going to hear. He says, the way you're staring at me is a bit intense. And she says, yeah, it's just that you are the ugliest bloke I've ever seen. And it's incredibly brave of you to come out in public. He says, thanks for that. And she says, look, in two minutes, a bloke called Kev, he's going to come up those stairs, and he won't be happy that I'm talking to you. And he says, worried what he'll do to me? She says, no, I'm worried what you'll do

to hear me, here's a clip. My father you're trying to stare at that, but I'm intense. I don't know. Just, um, you did the more than hell to read to live it. You actually, you're really down to get all to you. Goch and Vee. Eli, there's a few minutes, there's a boy in of Kev in going to get to go in a gvis to see him for you. 20 ben anything.

Only bened it. While that clip was playing, Simon said to me, what did you call the Richard Burton film? And I said, Mr. Burton. You went, no, you didn't. I called it Mr. Turner. Which is because we've got Tim Spall coming up. Later in the show. And of course, that's Mr. Turner. Wow, that was a nice say. Well done. Yes, the Burton film is, surprisingly enough, called Mr. Burton. And the Turner film, which is about Turner, is called Mr. Turner.

Anyway, so they meet in this club. They leave together. He's got some secrets in his past that she's more than able to deal with. And they have what appears to be a blissful encounter. But then, after that, he withdraws and the wheels start to come off her life. Now, the film is really interesting. It's got one foot in that kind of grand social realist tradition of Ken Loach. And you could compare it to things like Kathy Come Home or Poor Cow. But it's also got this lyrical poetry, which is much more in keeping with the work of Lynn Ramsey or Clyer Barnard, who you know I can always refer to as, I think, you know, two of my favorite directors. There's stuff about unplanned pregnancy, there's stuff about how overstretched the NHS is,

about the rigors of poverty, the horrible first-person consequences of how overstretched the NHS is and hospital overcrowding. All that stuff is real feet on the ground. But there is also this kind of dreamy, almost hyper-realist sensibility, which is often accentuated by the music. When Mark Evans did Resurrection Man. He did one of the greatest needle drops in modern film history when he used tiger feet by mud over a scene of kind of really tough violence. And it's in the same way as kind of, you know, stuck in the middle with human reservoir dogs. It is brilliantly contrapontal. And I think Mark Evans has got fantastic ear for music. In the case of this, he worked with Sean Trevor, who composed this electronic score. Apparently what he did was he took a bunch of records and said,

these are the kind of records I think they'd be listening to. And then his composer said, okay, fine, but I can work something around that and comes up with this really, really integral score, which I think really lifts the film. As the drama goes on, the music kind of gives way to the sound of the real world, around it to the sound of what Mark Evans said, the sound of the slate of the environment. And it's, the whole film is shot by Aerolyn Jones, who finds, I think, both beauty and hardship in the environment. But at the centre of it, you have this amazing performance by Lisa Gwenchian, who I keep saying

Gwen Gleyn, because it's double-edged. She's tried to say to me how I said, is it Gwendolyn? And she's going, Gwen Gleon, and obviously my Welsh accent is terrible. It's funny. It's bullshit. It's stroppy. It's heartbreaking. It's gut-wrenching.

It's the, you know, it walks the full length of the counter. And it's really, really powerful. And some of the drama is really upsetting. I mean, some of it is really profoundly upsetting. Some of it is, you know, edge of your seat, tension. some of it's really funny, some of it's really warm. But the thing is that there is so much, there's so much life in it that even when it's dealing with really difficult,

really dark subject matter, what you get from it is this kind of, this defiance, this sense of this character who is absolutely her own person and who refuses to be downtrodden. I mean, you know, tough as Flint or, you know, to quite well, Mark was saying, you know, tougher slate. I think the movie's really powerful.

I think it has a central character who is, Still there, still defiance, still unbowed, despite everything that happens. Like I said, it is a tough watch. There are things in it that are very, very tough. But I think it's really good, and I think her performance is terrific, and I think Mark Evans is one of our most versatile filmmakers. Okay, still to come after our hydration break, Toy Story 5, Virginia Wool's Night and Day, and our special guest who's in that film, that'll be Tim Spall.

It was also in Mr. Turner, but not Mr. Burton. Correct. Yeah, Mark, I was online shopping the other day and he got me thinking, you know how in Jurassic Park they bring dinosaurs back to life using cutting-edge technology? Yes. That's how I imagine people build online stores.

What, by using dinosaur DNA? Well, not specifically, but it certainly feels that complicated and it's a right pain to remember all of your details. And that's why smart businesses use Shopify. There's no need to get your wallet out, just hit the purple pay button and complete your checkout with one tap. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world,

from household names like Heinz and Mattel to brands just getting started. It helps find customers with easy-to-run email and social media campaigns. And if you get stuck, Shopify is always to hand with award-winning 24-7 customer support. See fewer carts go abandoned and more sales go. With Shopify and their shop pay button. Sign up for your £1 per month trial today at Shopify.com.com.uk slash take. Go to Shopify.com.com.uk slash take. Okay. Box office top 10. This week at 10. Well, basically there's only one film that people want to talk about. So we'll zip on through. Number 10, the amazing digital circus, the last act.

Yeah, which I noticed. I said I was going to catch up with it, but I haven't yet. And I will do. Whenever you say that, I know that you won't. No, no. But here's why, because it's actually not yet on street. And when we're recording this, it's not yet. But as soon as it comes to streaming, I will watch it, but it hasn't yet happened. The Sheep Detectives is at number nine. That's what was terrific. Really enjoyed it. Really strange.

Really odd. And they were suggesting, oh, no, no. So they were suggesting replacing Russell Crowe with Sam the Eagle, weren't they? Sorry, not a... As Javier. Not a Hugh Jackman. You're not a huge gentleman. Yeah.

Devil Wears Prada 2, is it number 8? More of the same. Star Wars, the Mandalorian, and Grogu is at number 7? If you're a fan, you might enjoy some of it, but it is a bunch of TV episodes strung together. Michael's at six? Not a fan. But it's taken.

How much? I mean, just staggering amounts of money. It is now, I think, I saw a news report that said it is now the most successful rock biopic or music biopic of Eves. Masters of the Universe is at number five. Kind of big, you know, big colourful fun. Absolute nonsense, but quite enjoyable. Backrooms is at four. Which I like very, very much.

A new wave of young directors changing the face of modern popular cinema. Scary movie. is at number three? Not the young popular. More of the same, unfortunately. Obsession is at number two. Which I think is terrific. And I love the fact that obsession is doing as well as it is and is continuing to do that well

because after five weeks, it's the word of mouth that's making people go to see it. So a bunch of emails about the number one movie, which is of course Disclosure Day and it's not just number one. It is, of course, very number one. Very number one. And number one in America. So we'll just get through some of these. And obviously, much like the critical comments, some love it and some don't.

Okay, fine, there you go. E.T. So this is Chris Kime, first of all, in Hong Kong. E.T. meets close encounters of the third kind. Meets signs, meets Raiders of the Lost Art, meets duel, meets war games, meets The Martian, meets Network, meets Catch Me, if you can, meets Avengers Age of Ultron. Farmhouse seen anyone? meets Roswell documentaries. So Mark is right, we've all been there before many times. Yule's devotedly, Chris Kheim, Hong Kong.

Now, this guy's name is Olaf Ringleband, and he's in Hamburg. He's got to be a progg, Ropper, hasn't he? I've instantly got a picture of Olaf Ringle Band, PhD psychology. Did he do some solo work with Johnny Danbilt? Almost certainly. I had long clung to the belief that Stephen Spielberg simply couldn't make a bad film. Even his lesser works tend to be expertly crafted, briskly entertaining, and touched by that old cinematic magic. So imagine my disappointment on watching disclosure.

a film so clumsily written and mechanically assembled that it feels less directed than urgently stapled together. Structurally, it is essentially a screen saver of jeopardy. Run away, fight the baddies, run away again, fight the baddies again, repeat until the credits mercifully intervene. There is movements, certainly, but very little momentum, noise, but not much cinema. And then there's a long section about big reveal,

but we won't be talking about that, because what with it being the reveal and everything. Also, it's not that big of a reveal. But thanks to Olaf Ringel Band, our favorite correspondent of the... Please send us some early tapes

of your prog work. Barney says when Stephen Spielberg was a guest on the show inside the actor's studio the host James Lipton

asked the director a question about close encounters which went Your father was a computer scientist this is a very famous question

and it's on YouTube your father was a computer scientist your mother was a musician your mother was a hamster and your father's not quite when the spaceship lands

how do they communicate they make music on their computers and are able to communicate with each other. This dissection of Spielberg's storytelling remains as true as ever, as after nearly 50 years on from close encounters it appears, he hasn't moved on from these themes as Disclosure Day treads extremely similar ground. Your enjoyment of the film also depends on how high your tolerance is for this aweshawks optimism.

It's an admirable outlook in the times we live in, but could have been dialed down a considerable amount. At times, I'm reminded of whenever Peter Pan is performed, performed on stage and the audience is told to repeat, I do believe in fairies. As a lifelong fan, I've managed to watch every single one of his movies and as much as it pains me to say it, this might be the most disappointing. Move over always. There's a new kid in town at the bottom, says Barney. Okay. Okay, there's... These have all been quite negative so far.

Flick in Leicester. Okay. I was worried that the viewing time would be too much for my nine-year-old son, but I need not have feared. From the opening sequence, he was hooked. In the final third, I had to give him my hand to squeeze as he was engaged in some very non-code compliant, rocking in his seat in a bid to contain his excitement. As the final credits rolled, he burst into tears as he was so desperate to know what they were going to say. Getting his review in the car, he said, it's the best film I have ever seen. The highlight for me was watching my son have his first cinematic Spielberg experience and seeing his awestruck expression throughout.

Any film that shows a nine-year-old, or anyone for that matter, that kindness and compassion are the way forward. surely doing something right. Take the Tong, down with attacking others for being different. Very good. Cirstie says, I have to say I loved the film. It had a profound effect on me emotionally, one that I wasn't expecting. Is it the best film ever made?

No, the performances are solid, but CGI animals are shonky, and I don't think that's on purpose, but I thought the film's message about the need for empathy was so simple and yet so well delivered. Serge Zander says, a long-time listener, first-time contacter. Okay. Thank you for the wonderful review of Stephen Spielberg's Disclosure Day, which was, of course, on last week's show along with a conversation with Emily Blunt and Coleman Domingo.

Having seen the film, having been irked by its faults and having wept at the end, I felt very much at home in one of the longest reviews you've done. A bit like Spielberg's film, your thoughts on Disclosure Day showed that there can be things that are objectively wrong and need to be pointed out. But as is so often the case in movies and in life, there is also an emotional truth that has to be acknowledged and which may super, precede any intellectual qualms. In short, two things can be true at the same time. It was therefore a great pleasure to hear Mark express his gratitude for working with Simon after all these years. If Spielberg's film, with all its faults, inspires moments like this in the real world, that's quite something. Therefore, up with empathy and down with cruelty, cruelty and all the best to both of you from Serge. So he's a good lad, isn't he?

Before Mark comments, there's more on this in Overflow Car Park 2, Overflow Car Park, which is in take two. Subscribe on Patreon. Park 2, the love bug. Yeah, if there's overflow car park 2, we're going to have to put that in take 3. Can I just say, I have often expressed my admiration for working with you. Yes. I do it a lot

more than you do it about me. That isn't true. That is definitely not true. But anyway, so I love the fact that you take your nine-year-old. Yeah, no, and that's brilliant. Who goes back catalogue? What back catalogue? Yeah. Yeah. A Spielberg film

first one he's seen absolutely blows him away. And as the later emails said, is it perfect? No, it isn't. I mean, everyone knows what we think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got lots of things wrong with it, however. My favourite line in that, and the penultimate email,

was the thing about rocking backwards and forwards on his chair because he was so excited about what they were going to say next. And that's the kind of thing. Like, if you wrote that in a book, if you write somebody who's it, you go, yeah, that's exactly it. It's the kind of observation that that's exactly what you do. You're so excited about what they're going to say next.

you literally can't sit still in your chair. It's a physical manifestation of excitement without being able to verbalise it because you can't get you in a cinema. So rocking backwards and forwards, whilst obviously against the code and might be annoying, is perfectly understandable. I actually think it's completely forgivable

because you're not talking, you're not doing anything allowed, but you're just, you're so excited. It's like we were saying, like, if you're in a movie that's really funny or in a movie that's really scary, is it code violation to laugh or something? No, of course it isn't.

If it's a genuine involunt, I love that image. I love that image of a nine-year-old being so excited by what they're going to say next. Correspondence atcommonammer.com, when you've seen it, let us know. Coming up after our latest hydration break, it's going to be Tim Spall. So I guess this week is Tim Spall, which is a very lovely thing, which we recorded tomorrow. So excuse the wrinkle in the show's spacetime continuum. So just to explain the timing, whimy thing, you're going to hear the interview now,

but we won't have heard it until we do it tomorrow. That's right. Yes. Chris Nolan would love this feature. He would absolutely love it. I think he's directing it. So what is there to say about Tim? Our fit is in pet.

Life is sweet. Secrets and lies. Topsy Turvy. All or nothing. King's speech. Damned United. Sweeney Todd enchanted the last samurai. Blanding, Summer of Rockets, Sixth Commandment, and so on.

Did you say Mr. Turner? Well, you'd mention it a couple of times. You mentioned Mr. Burton as well. Mr. Burton and Mr. Turner. Okay, so we're going to talk with Tim. He's in a new movie called Night and Day, and you'll hear from him after this. I want to apply to Cambridge.

It's absolutely out of the question. You're married and you'll be a wife. Willie, you're ridiculous. I have other plans. What are you doing, my pier? I'm not trusting strangers on rooftops. A woman who knows what she wants. I need.

A lab. It's easy. Study if. Nobody wants to warn them. Science. Stop wasting all the time. Don't be stuck in the last century. She let us.

Just give me a chance. And that's a clip from Virginia Wool's night and day. Tim's ball. Welcome to the show. Hello. How huge. We're doing fine. You look as though you're in the back of a camper van or something?

No, a boat. Oh, right. I'm on my boat. Are you heading anywhere exotic? Well, I'm going nowhere at the moment. I'm up on a riverbank, and a river not too far from you. Is that the same boat that you did a TV show?

It is, yeah, same thing, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's not just for TED. It's a pleasure as well. So Virginia Woolson Nighting Day, that is the full, that's the proper title of this new movie, stars Hayley Bennett and as the main star. you're Mr. Hilbrough, your Haley Bennett's father, just introduce us to your character

and introduce us to the story, Tim. Well, yeah, like in days, fundamentally about the young woman, Edwardian woman, who would be regarded in them terms as a spinster. Worryingly unmarried and unproposed to at this point in late 20s, early 30s. Elizabeth, her parents in a well-to-do house,

her father's a publisher. Her mother is a daughter of a very famous poet. Her mother is writing a book about her father. She's taken her about 18 years and she's only done about two chats. Now, Haley Bennett,

Jennifer Saunders, wonderful Jennifer Plains, her mom and I play dad. And Haley Bennett plays this Edwardian girl who actually doesn't fit the bill of potential wifehood from an Edwardian point of view.

She wants to to go to university. She's an astronomer and quite a talented one. And she's trying to manipulate the situation for them to understand that she doesn't want to marry this young man. She's known her life with a family, friend. And so it's a battle of wills, really, from the beginning. And it's an investigation of this world, this milieu, this Edwardian world, where

it's about to undergo a paradigm shift or a very slow paradigm shift. if there can be one, about women's attitudes about that wanted to do, independent. So my character, Mr. Hilbray, in a sense, is representative of that immovable Edwardian's patriarchy. But he also, I think, he also, in a way,

is someone who's the bolts of that kind of resolve are loosening a little bit, and this investigates this woman, young woman's determination of clowing our own furrow towards what she wants to do and actually get on a lot of

meeting a lot of resistance and then it takes her into a whole milieu of this Edwardian world she's introduced to Lily Allen's character who's a suffragette running this kind of alternative world of people she's introduced to

then she goes and because her father doesn't allow her to study and in her house he's had enough of her he's had enough of everything really her father he's just because he desperately wants to sort her out but he can't you know

and then there's a whole gallery of other characters rather eccentric and she's another suit who comes along who she takes an interesting dislike to but obviously she deeply underneath it all she's rather intrigued by him so you know

and however I'm turning much of a great story here but it's actually but also the flavour of it, I think. It's a very different, Justin Waddlewaddle who's written it, has taken the book and kind of opened it up into this world. It has a whole different atmosphere. It's not stuffy. We also were encouraged to improvise quite a lot in it and to loosen it up. The script was very good, but Stina was very open to seeing what happened on set. So it was oddly experimental and oddly nerve-wracking at times because you thought, how on earth am I supposed to improvising in a haughty language, you know?

But there is an element, it frees it up a little bit. Can you tell us something about working with Tina Garavi? Because she made I Am Nazarene, which I really, really liked. I saw her interviewed on stage at the BFI, and she was funny and witty and sharp, and she really seemed to be completely in command of all the material. What was she like to work with the director? Because you've worked with, you know, some of the best directors in the business. What was she like to work with?

Well, she was very relaxed, very relaxed and very open to seeing what happened, you know. We had the script, which we rehearsed, we would do, and then she would just run the cameras. And she wouldn't call cut, you know, so we'd just carry on or we just, or we got to start doing it again. So there was a, I mean, luckily, we had a very interesting, inventive cast, you know, Jennifer, as, you know, you know, you. used to making up on the spot. Jack Whitehall, absolutely charming Jack, lovely Miss Phillips,

so we were all there and just in this position where we had this script and these characters and Haley was very good. Now a lot of it, the script is as scripted, but there are elements of this improvisation

in the script, but it also loosened up the whole feel of it. It gave a lot of freedom. We weren't, I mean, the characters are buttoned down. Our Edwardian characters are somewhat buttoned down. But so it was always added to the strain of this shift going on, I think, this feeling of something unsettling in this young woman represents this world

that is no longer this generation of women. You know, when you think of it, it seems like stating the obvious, really, that, you know, it's only a hundred years ago. that women were just not conceived as being able to look after themselves. You know, they had to be provided for by a husband, or if they weren't provided, or that these are middle-tails and upper-middle-taught women, of course, working-taught women have always had to get on with it and work.

But this whole milieu, this upper-middle-class world, it was just preposterous to think that you would glow your own father, or a man, a father, wouldn't have to take. care or make sure that is what a daughter was taken care of. It's just, I mean, now, you know, I've got daughters. I want to make sure they're okay, but then this, but they work. You know, they've got their own careers. Women just didn't have a career.

So this is actually, we forget how unusual somebody wanting to go to Cambridge is and to resist the suitors that are put before. So that's what this film is really about. Tim, we have we've been talking about you a lot on the podcast over the last few months. Most recently,

when you were Polonius in Rizarmids Hamlet, which is fantastic, which we enjoyed very much Risky on the show. I haven't seen it yet. I'm looking for to see it. All right,

it's been and gone. But anyway, I'm sure you can find it somewhere. But I'm aware it's Father's Day coming up this weekend. And you've been, so you're a father in this movie,

Mr. Hilbray. You were in Kate Winslet's debut performance. So another, we're kind of ambivalent and confused dad, Bernie, in Goodbye June. The reason why I think you're Mr. Hilberry in this film is so enjoyable is that it would be very easy to play the kind of two-dimensional Edwardian patriarch. But actually, yours is a nuanced role. You are compassionate.

You're a compassionate father. And it's just that you're a bit bewildered, I think, by the way the world is turning. Would that be fair? Absolutely. That's what I thought. He is irascible and he is at the end of his tether because I think, and he does, he loves his daughter, but he drives him mad. He loves his wife incredibly, but he's driven mad by her because what I come to the conclusion

was we always assume that these men in some way must enjoy the role as patriarch, enjoy their roles as being in charge. And I've been thinking, well, some of these guys, they were a victim of society as much as, okay, they were in charge. But a lot of these men didn't really want it, this terrible strain of having to make these decisions constantly be the bad one, be the person who had to provide. And I think what Mr. Hilberry adds is the sense of, okay, he's very much a man of his time. but I wonder deep down inside whether he really is slightly being cast in a role it doesn't necessarily want to fulfill and there must have been many many men who did that and maybe sometimes their strictness and their draconian attitudes were a product of being slightly out of their debts

you know I mean there's a lot of I know a lot of in big families men had they were young men they weren't all of a sudden they had seven kids they must have thought what the hell's happened. I mean, you know, so I'm not defending a whole generation of draconian restrictive men, but it did occur to me that as this man sees this world unfolding before him, he's intelligent, he's irascible, but he's intelligent, he doesn't want to lose his daughter, he allows the rivets of his constraints, the rivets of his, the structure of his up to this point, perception of society are loosening, as everybody's rivets must have been.

I mean, rather painfully, the whole of society, I mean, particularly, as we know, the active suffragettes were regarded as terrorists and they were beaten up and they were starved and they were force-fed. I mean, so we forget these things because in a sense have been bizarrely romanticised now. They've become biscuit-tinned, as it were, these characters to a certainly read. But we forget there was a real, real struggle and it was a real moment in time, very important moment in time. where attitudes were changing. Unfortunately, a lot of, you know, active people would say, well, not enough, and we know, but this is 100 years ago. And it was really pretty tough for a lot of women.

So that's what this film explains, in a very witty way, in a very unpofaced way, I think. And a lot of that was that Tina as well, and the cast you got together were up for kind of loosening up a bit. I think Haley's performance is fantastic in it. I mean, such vivacious and takes and carries it all without it being, you know, precious or self-regarding, I think. It's a wonderful, fresh performance.

It's worth saying that the film is called Night and Day, and the thing that it does is that it balances light and dark, and I think that's the thing that makes it work. Yeah, I think that's right. And, I mean, I was intrigued by it because I didn't, you know, I've only ever read one Virginia Wool. and I had an associated with a sort of comedy of manners world, which when I read the book, I thought,

this is very interesting. But the screenplay is very different. I actually only read two-thirds of the book because I thought the production was going to collapse. I thought, I'll read the rest of it when I know they've got the back. Bobby, you know what the independent world is, the movie world is getting tougher and tougher and tougher, trying to get a movie made.

You know, that's this amazing thing that not only has this movie been made, but it's actually got a cinema release, which I think is really, I'm really delighted with it because it's getting tougher for indie movies to get released, you know? Yeah, and he goes into, it goes to cinemas with Disclosure Day

and Toy Story 5, Tim, so that's, well, let's hope, well, I've, I've with the little backlash to a certain amount. Not that those two films aren't excellent, pieces of work in their own field but I think it's, I know there's been a slight backlash in the state with these smaller

horror films, these much lower budgeted horror films but that's a different thing of course because horror films often and science fiction film often become prevalent I think. Do they not? When the world, the collective subconscious is actually scared about things when it feels insecure

but in, you know, the Cold War produced many, many, uh, type of fiction movies, did it not? I did. And horror movies and so on. And now I think what we're seeing now is these small movies, which have got very, very fundamental, unusual stories about terror, but also normality being uplifted.

Let's hope that there'll, in between this, as this new backlash comes along, the slightly unusual period piece will be a part of this backlash. Yeah. Dream on somebody I can hear somebody saying. Re-on to his books. So the movie is Virginia Wool's Night and Dave. Tim, what do we see you in next?

What do you move on to after this? Well, I'm working on a, I'm not allowed to say what it is at the moment. It's as such as the modern world. I'm working on a Netflix six-part thing. I was supposed to be streaming an independent, starting around now on an independent movie in the States, but unfortunately the dates have shifted. They've shifted about six times now.

But I'm working on this. everything and then I'm doing, I've got other things that are cooking up. So I'm in gainful employment. You've told us absolutely, you've told us nothing, Tim. I'm being tolerated as I have been on a long term basis once you can professionally. Well, we look forward to every new project, Tim. We always appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you so much for your time.

Well, there's always a delight to talk to you guys. Thank you for having me on the show. Thank you. And I hope everybody like enjoys a movie. I hope you did. So we will find out. God bless you. Always good to talk to Tim Spall, even though we haven't heard that.

Just yet. I think we both found that a very enjoyable experience. Very enjoyable experience. And it went terrifically well. And you were right in there with the line of questioning that I would have been in with. Well done. And indeed, your insightful comments from the hotel. Yeah, that was very good, wasn't it?

That was great. So it's Virginia Woolf's night and day. You know some of what Mark thinks because of the way he phrased his questions, obviously. which I haven't done yet. But here it is in condensed. So I may well be repeating some of the things that Tim Spall hasn't yet said but will have said by the time you've listened this.

But here we go. So Virginia Woolf's night and day, which is this sparky. And despite the title, very loose adaptation of Virginia Woolf's novel, this is from British Iranian director, Tina Garavie, who made the brilliant BAFTA nominated I Am Nazarene. She also helmed Queen Cleopatra in the TV thing,

which caused a stir because it had Adele James in the lead role and it was an accusation of this is pushing an afrocentric agenda to which she replied that you can be pretty certain of one thing is that Cleopatra look more like Adel James than Elizabeth Taylor which I thought was fantastic

So this new film is written adapted by Justine I think Waddell Waddell you would say I would go for Waddell features an ensemble cast which is Haley Bennett Tim Smith Tim Spall who we just heard from Lily Allen Jennifer Saunders

Jack Wightall's Sally Phillips So the novel apparently, well, I haven't read the novel, centres around four main characters and raises the question of whether love and marriage do indeed go together like a horse and carriage. In the case of the film, which is set in 1910 London, it takes apparently some incidental threads from the novel, which it then expands. As I said, I only know this from reading the research on it because I haven't read the novel because I'm not very well read. So in this story, Haley Bennett is Catherine. She's an autodidact, want to be a strong, who wants to go to Cambridge to study maths and the stars. And her father, played by Timothy Spall, has other ideas.

He wants her to marry William, who is this kind of Tim Nice but Dim type, played rather well, I think, by Jack Whitehall. She resists the proposal. Meanwhile, her mother, played by Jennifer Saunders, has been working for years on this still incomplete biography of the late grandfather, who was a poet and critic. And she's being encouraged to cut it down radically to make it, publishable. And to this end, they are brought in an editor, Ralph, played by Elias and Barrett,

who is the antithesis of William. And then her horizons, Catherine's horizons, are broadened by her cousin Cyril, who, she goes with Cyril to a men-only meeting of an astrological society. She's dressed as a man. You ever seen nine and a half weeks? I know it's a strange comparison, but there's a scene in nine and a half weeks in which Kim Basinger dresses as a man to go out with Mickey Rourke. It's a kind of joke scene, but it's like one of those things about, yeah, she doesn't look like a man, but she's dressed as a man, therefore you have to assume that she gets into melancholy spaces. She also, Catherine also becomes friends with Mary Datchett, played by Lily Allen, who finds, who is a kind of a much more outspoken, free-spirited figure. And through these

kind of encounters, she starts to find ways to challenge the assumptions of society and what is and isn't possible. Now, if any of that sounds heavy, it's not meant to because you've seen the film as well. The tone of it is actually very, very light. I don't mean light weight, but I mean light. It's a very, very enjoyable watch, and I really enjoyed the film. And when you look, it's interesting, when you look at the poster, the poster is quite a smiley poster. It's got, you know, faces of people that you know, and they all seem to be sort of half-smiling. But the thing that's important to say is that that doesn't mean that it doesn't have darkness behind it because, you know, smiles, period, costumes, all that stuff that we love.

But it is dealing with some darker subject matter. And I think a lot of that is encapsulated by the fact that Haley Bennett is so good in the central role. She has got one of those faces that is able to telegraph when somebody's smiling, but it looks, you know that they're screaming on the inside. There's something about the way that she, her facial expressions work, that she's very, very good that. She's also very good at doing somebody who has lots to say but isn't saying it because of the circumstances she's in, just require her to, you know, to be clipped. And all of that, you know, like politely nodding in the affirmative. And I think all of that really helps the movie have this kind of balancing act between the stuff which is, which is, you know, deep and got real

emotional and political stuff going on in it, going on in it. And the stuff which is just really entertaining to watch. I mean, I think. I think the role not simply allows Haley Bennett to shine, but absolutely demands that she does so because otherwise the film wouldn't work. As for Tina Gravy, she's a terrific director. She's got wit, confidence, a deceptively light touch. I mean, I think the film, as I said, it feels breezy and entertaining, even when it's dealing with some tough stuff.

And you've got the title, night and day, as that suggests, it's the balance between light and dark. It's the balance between the things that are difficult and the things which are funny and comedic. And I think it gets all those things really right. And I sent you a message saying, I hope you liked it. And you said, I did.

Tell me what you liked about it. Well, I just, Haley Bennett is, who always reminds me of Jennifer Lawrence. Oh. Just visually. Okay. That's interesting. Yeah, I just, I think she is incredibly versatile

and very watchable. And I thought the, It felt like it was a true story. It felt like the director had found this and they turned it into a drama, whereas as opposed to a novel by Virginia Woolf, which he didn't feel like at all. But then you did say it was loosely adapted from ideas that came up in it. So I thought it was a good ensemble piece.

You know, everyone, Tim is great. But he is really great. He can do absolutely anything. But the kind of the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the. between being pompous and malign is very, because there are scenes in the film in which he is quite scary. Yes. You know, so he's not just this kind of figure of fun. He is, there isn't, there's an edge to his authoritarianism. Yes. Oh, no, absolutely. And Jack Wightall, who I'm quite happy not to watch most of the time, but was exactly right. Yeah, I thought he was really well cast. And I,

I think he does it really well. I think he does that Tim Nice, but Dim Roll really well, because it's, it's hard to get the balance of that right and not just become a caricature. And I'm not really familiar with much of his other work. Yeah, and then there's just a hint of the, as they've staged it, impending First World War,

when one of the characters stands up in costume, you think, oh yeah, okay, that's all about to, that's all about to come and change everything. But it felt like a great story that was being explained to me for the first time, even though it's not a true story, it sort of has the essence of truth about it. Yes, and there is a,

there is a strong element of truth about its fiction. And the title is Virginia Woolf's Night and Day. The title of the film on the posters is Virginia Woolf's Night and Day. And in fact, I think that's actually how it comes up on the BBC site as well. So yeah, that is the, yeah, Virginia Woolf's Night and Day is the full title. Okay, correspondence at codemoe.com. When you see it, let us know. If you're on Patreon, of course, you can get Take One and Take Two ad free.

Although the ads that Mark and I read out are sort of often the highlight of the show. Plus you get our exclusive bonus Take Ultra every fortnight, which is a live 30-minute show. Loads of other benefits. Also in Take-U-L-TU-T-Ltery, I think we should start doing travel news and racing. Okay, fine. Just like the old days. Yes. And you can use our June 90-Code.

That's capital J-U-N-E-90 for 90% off, which is clearly ridiculous. So grab this offer while it's still there. Stand-by for the greatest comedy lift of all time. Everyone's favourite. But it's slightly different. So you might feel a little bit to disorienting. but the sound effects are the same. Here we go.

When I'm up, there's a fun change to the format this week. Oh dear. You are going to be playing the role of Mr. Punchline. Okay. And you have to do it in the style of one of your most famous impressions. Okay. You'll know it when you hear it. Okay.

Is the music slightly loud? Crank it down, guys. Thank you. Oh, so hey, Mark. Hey, Mark. Grandpa Mayo, a war hero, told me this story. He was in charge of interrogations at a prisoner. of war camp in 1944.

Okay. They called in a German soldier, a Japanese soldier, and an Italian soldier for grilling. Okay. There's a little bit of stereotyping. Did they walk into a bar? The German soldier insists that his superior Aryan genetics will allow him to resist interrogation. The soldier was, after all, as thin as guring, as blonde as Hitler and as tall as gerbils.

The Japanese soldier claims that his unyielding semi-religious devotion to the emperor will give him the strength not to crack. The Italian soldier, just a young squady, says he wishes he had the other two's fortitude because he's sure he'll crumble quickly. During the interrogation, however, the Italian is the only one to completely withstand the questioning. Impressed, grandpa, so stand by Mark. Punchline, there we go. Impressed, Grandpa Mayo said to the Italian, call lummy chummy how did you withstand that questioning and not crack at all and the soldier said hey i want to talk but are they tied in my hand to the chair now how much racial stereotyping was there

in that joke i think there was a nominate i'm a nominate so was that jack jack bob so the suggestion was roberta benini or charred letter so you went with the easier one yeah well i went with either you know i can do I can do more Roberto Benile if you want. No, it's fine. Still to come, Mark, well, I'll tell you, Simon. There's a Toy Story 5. Yes. Toy Story 5 animate.

He says, animate, he's animate, he's animate. Yeah, Toy Story 5. I'm an Ammonite. Okay. And then I'll be Kate Windsor in Ammonite. Hydration break, please. This spring, denim gets a softer, lighter update. Introducing Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg.

A new fit that moves with you. It's everything you want denim to feel like for summer. Easy, breathable and effortlessly cool. With a fit that creates natural movement and a wide leg that feels modern, not overwhelming. Plus, that signature, wait, for this price, moment. Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg. Okay, so before we get at Toy Story 5, Craig has sent us an email. Dear 12 and 12A.

Mark's recent answer about film. ratings and the introduction of the 12A certificate in the UK brought back memories of a year seven school trip abroad. Each night the teachers would allow us to watch a film in the hostel that we'd taken over for the week, picked from a selection of films brought by students from home. However, there was widespread dismay when we were told that we could categorically not watch anything 15 or 18, a sensible position in hindsight given that we were either 11 or 12. More bizarrely, we were told that anything rated PG wasn't okay because our parents weren't physically there to offer the guidance,

a PG rating suggested. Just when it looked like our entire week was going to be nightly watches of extremely child-friendly fare, the teachers decided that 12A films were fine for us to watch because some of you are 12 and those who aren't are being accompanied by an adult. I imagine that this isn't quite how the BBFC intended for their ratings to be interpreted, but we were all extremely grateful that it meant we could spend our evenings watching

Austin Powers rather than Pocahontas. So that is true. Legally speaking, you can't watch a PG, no parents are here, but you can watch a 12 because you are 12 or there's an adult. I always come back to this. I mentioned this last week. People of our age will remember this,

but it used to be, the certificates were you and A, and an A certificate movie was that you could only go and see it with an accompanying parent or guardian, right? And so what you would do, what I would, what everyone I knew would do, if you wanted to go see Planet the Apes and it's an A,

and of course your parents didn't want to go see Planet the Apes. So you'd hang around outside the Odey and Hendon until some random adult, and you go, Mr, we'd take us in the screen three. It's like a very, very bad idea. It's like a very, very bad idea, but that was literally what we did. Certainly not what we did in Worthing, let me tell you.

Oh, really? No. She's doing Worthing. You're going with a priest or a, No, we just didn't break the law. It's not breaking the law. Accompanying parent or guard. Judas Priest?

Very good. Was it Saxon? Is it Saxon? Okay. Beking the law. Breaking the law. I think it's Judas Priest. Anyway, before we get a toy story of five, I am indebted to Amory, BSC, MSC, M-S-E-M-S-C, PhD, Analytical Chemistry, University of Southampton, M-R-S-C.

Dear movie, Doctors, this is Amori, L-T-L-L-L-F-E, Frenchman based in Singapore. but writing to you now from sunny Saint-Jean de Luce in the past country. When the moon hits the sky like a big pizza pie, that's Amori. Well, I'm enjoying a family holiday with the good lady business developer and child number one.

I'm writing to you about the various Asian editions of the movie Doctor's book. A few weeks ago, Simon pulled a volume off his shelf, identifying it, or was it, Mark, as the Korean edition of your good book. Now, I typically only listen to your podcast that wouldn't have been the wiser, but that day,

The algorithm had led me to your YouTube video. Looking at the cover of the book, I realized that this was definitely not Korean script, but rather traditional Chinese characters. In that case, it was a Chinese edition. Meaning that it was probably a Taiwanese edition, with a title roughly translating to Welcome to the Movie Hospital. I let them out to lie, convinced the listener would swiftly correct this small issue.

This, however, hasn't yet happened. And Mark, in the latest episode, identified the same volume again as the Korean edition. Sorry. I decided this was a reason good enough to warrant my first email to your good selves. After asking confirmation from my lovely wife, who pointed out that it could also be an edition from Hong Kong, I resolved to write this emergency email. I hope you'll find this informative. Now it's the la paratroif, sincerely, I'm sorry. So, okay, so my guess is it's the Taiwan edition.

There is definitely two different editions, one of them, which will be that one. And then there is another one which is Korean. There is a Korean edition. Which has got a completely different cover. I think it's almost like we need an expert to tell us what our book is, really. We just wrote it. Anyway, so thank you, Amori. The Taiwanese edition is our favourite one because of the way they've done it.

Anyway, enough of that nonsense. You might have noticed there's a new Toy Story film out. This is number five. Toy Story Five, directed by Andrew Stanton, written by Stanton, Anne Kenner Harris. Voice cast includes returning voices Tom Hanks, Tim Allen, Joan Cusack, Tony Hale, John Ratzenberg and Wallace, Sean, Blake Clark, Annie Potts, Bonnie Hunt, Christian John O'Reaves, Ali Mackey, along with new editions, Greta Lee, Conan O'Brien, Craig Robinson, Shelby Rabara, Scarlett Spears,

Michael Michelle Harris, Matty Matheson, Uncle, Ernie Hudson, Allent, everybody. Is that Uncle Tom Coveley making another appearance? I was always surprised when somebody said they went looking it up because people don't know Uncle Tom Cobbly and all anymore, but there we go. So, this is the first in the Toy Story series. that doesn't have any involvement from co-created John Lasseter who left Pixar in 2018. Randy Newman back in the score, Taylor Swift, contributing.

So I'm going to read you the plot synopsis before we go into the clip, and I'll then explain why I'm reading you the synopsis case. So the plot synopsis goes, after Woody left Bonnie to stay with Bo Peep and helped abandoned toys find owners, Jesse becomes the leader of Bonnie's room with Buzz Light Ear as her second in command. However, and now eight-year-old Bonnie is become enamored with her new favorite plaything, a frog light tablet named Lily Pad, Greta Lee, now Buzz must have Woody return to help them

overcome Lily Pad. Here's a clip. Hi! What the? Sorry, I didn't mean to scare you. Sleep mode, you know? No? Eh, forget it. It was just going to hop on the charger. Battery could use a little refresh. I want to talk to you, device. Please, call me Lily. Now look here. Me and the toys have been working all summer to try and get Bonnie to make friends with the Jordan twins across the street. Yeah. But then you had to ruin it. with all your stupid. You're not even listening to me. Oh, no, I was listening.

I'm always listening. See? Now look here. Me and the toys have been working all summer to try to get Bonnie to make friends with the Jordan twin. Now in Spanish. With the time of the horland.

Al-o-la-draulte de la Cajer, now as a rap. Me and the toys been working all summer trying to get Bonnie made friends. Oh, my first dance, honey. This concerns me ethically. Now, I'm looking at you and wondering whether, is it, are you laughing or?

I was quite intrigued by that, partly because I think Greta Lee is amazing. Yes, she is. And she needs to come on the show. If she's listening, I'm sure she's a regular listener. We love you to come on the show, Greta. Yeah. Okay. But I thought if you're going to make Toy Story 5, that's the one that you're going to make.

Okay. The one where the kid is only interested in the tablet. So I understand where that's heading. Okay. So, here's my take on it. Toy Story One was... But I haven't seen the film. No, no, I know, I know.

So Toy Story One was revolutionary, changed the face of, you know, modern animation really did. I remember the first time it was digital animation back then was like trippy. You couldn't quite figure it out. Toy Story 2, astonishingly, I think, was actually even better. I mean, and we know the whole story about it. It was originally going to be straight for the small screen. And then Toy Story 3 basically completed the trilogy. It was this absolutely wonderful sentimental, heartbreaking conclusion and the perfect trilogy. And we said at the time, it's like the, movies. It is perfect in and of itself. Then, Toy Story 4. Now, Toy Story 4 felt unnecessary, but it did, I think, still have some of the magic of the original trilogy. It didn't add to

the trilogy, but it didn't detract from it either. And Tom Hanks had said, okay, that's it. We're done now. Although they're not. So this, for me, is the first proper Toy Story disappointment. Now, I should say, we're recording this on Tuesday. So I have no idea what the reviews for the film are, because the reviews, I think, are embargoed until the end of today. We're only interested in your review. No, I know. I know. But I'm just saying, so I don't know, you know, this is kind of slightly sort of shedding. Usually you've got some sense of how reactions to films have been, but this is the first time I found myself, and I saw it in the cinema in the West End, and I was right at the back, so it was completely, you know,

away from everybody else because I wanted to watch it on my own. This is the first time that I found myself sitting in the cinema in the company of Woody and Buzz and Jesse and the gang and finding myself bored, baffled, and occasionally a bit cross. The problems are manyfold. And whenever I say, I always think of Benny Hill, but a woman's needs are manyfold. Soon she married dead. But anyway, let's not get distracted by that. So, firstly, the plot, the reason I read you the plot synopsis is because the plot is all over the place, right?

Toy Story 1 was simplicity itself. When kids leave the room, toys come to life. Toy Story 2 is a bit more existential. They discover that they're part of a production line. There's the whole thing about, it's not just, you know, it's almost like David and an AI. And then Toy Story 3 is the end of Winnie the Pooh. It's the whole thing about the time to put away childish things. And you and I, when we reviewed it, when we were talking about it,

when we were almost in tears. I mean, we were almost unable to broadcast. Yeah, but it was particularly readers, listeners' reactions and the emails that they sent in about how they had. responded. Yes, but we responded because we felt the same way. Okay. Toy Story 4, I can't remember much of the plot. I think some of it took place in a fairground and it was a lot of it was outdoors, but I don't really remember much of the plot. Do you? No, I don't think I even saw it. Oh, okay, fine. This time, the narrative is simultaneously too complicated and too simplistic, okay?

The simplistic thing is it's the battle between old toys and new tech, you know, flagged up by the arrival of Lily Pad. And hey, you know, guess what? Spending time alone on your screen can make you lonely, which is like, okay, but in the first toy story, the arrival of a flashy new toy, with, you know, you've got old style Woody and then Buzz turns up. And then we went through all of that. And short of saying that kids need to put away their screens and use their imaginations more, it's fine, this doesn't really have anything new to add. Plus, it really hedges its bets. I mean, when you're talking about, you know, it's the thing, obviously they've got do new tech. Look at the way, look at the way it plays out. I mean, it's, you know, it is very

much a kind of, and hey, we're all, we're all a bit, aren't we? We're all playing for the team. So that's the simple bit. The complex bit is the narrative. I was making notes during it, okay? Basically, my version of the plot goes, right? Starts with, there's an entire army of buzz toys washed up on a desert island or something, they've now got enhanced capability, see Toy Story 2, then it goes to the child who's got Jesse and the horse but no friends and gets a lily pad to make friends, but the friends then laugh for having toys, which she throws out, which then, through a really convoluted plot twist, end up being delivered to an older dress from the past where this other child lives, who's the only other child who still plays with a toys,

but also has a lily pad, and with whom Jesse should clearly be united but isn't. And then there's another strand about Woody being accidentally called back due to a conversation on a walkie-talkie which he miss hears. And then Jesse needs him as a deputy, but she doesn't. And then they're on a farm. And then there's a bit with a horse and a pig. And then there's some stuff about Buzz wanting to marry Jesse, but being unable to tell her that that's what he wants to do. And then there's some stuff about Jesse's previous owner growing up, but still loving Jesse. And then there's some stuff about forgetting.

And then there's some stuff about remembering. and then there's some stuff about all the toys, the lily pad being in a truck, and then they have to chase the truck, and then it turns out that... You remember the whole thing in the first toy story? That's not flying, that's falling with style, right? By the time you get to Toy Story 5,

oh no, they fly. They fly, and in fact, if there is anything that is symptomatic, symbolic of what's gone wrong, it's that in the first film, that's not flying, that's falling with style. And in the fifth film, no, they're just flying, which incidentally makes no.

And the last bit is particularly significant because if you throw away the magic, if you throw away the thing which made the first one, which was the idea is so simple. The idea is so straightforward. And the magic is he's flying with falling. And then you go, no, we're updating. You go, okay, fine, I'm sorry. I'm just checked out. Now, there are individual moments which work. Of course there are. Because when you have a voice cast this good and when you have characters that are this resilient and that we've spent four movies with and we've got so much emotionally invested in, of course things are going to work. But the things that made me emotionally moved were, I mean, look, the sight of a young child being cyber bullied is moving. You don't have to be a psychopath

not to be moved by that. But that is not enough. And where is the original Toy Story movies? they had this kind of heart and soul and this simple idea. This felt very much to me like a film from the director of John Carter of Mars. It's kind of weirdly aimless and bloated. And all these numerous warring elements, it's like they're all struggling for their moment in the sun, but none of them are cohering. It's like somebody just threw a whole bunch of stuff at a whiteboard

and said, let's see where any of that lands. And worse, worse, worse. the moments that do work, the moments that made me moved and, you know, start to well up, felt manipulative. And it never felt manipulative before. So the cast is bigger, the canvas is bigger, everything is bigger, yet somehow its ambition, its emotional ambition feels much smaller. I mean, not small in a kind of intimate way, but small in a kind of scant rewards way. And honestly, I lost patience with it, somewhere around about the midway mark. And then when I lost patience with it, I then became overwhelmed.

by this sense of sadness about the loss of innocence with the Toy Story movies, which is that it was almost like I was growing up in real time, that I was sitting in a cinema with these characters that I love that have meant so much to me over the course of the time that we've done this show. And for the first time ever, I was like, come on. So you were feeling all Toy Story 3 about Toy Story 5? I was feeling all Toy Story 3 about Toy Story 5. And it was, you know, I mean, I, what I wanted to be was I wanted to be a young kid gurgling

at the, you know, you. I wanted to be the kids sitting in the chair, unable to sit still because they're so excited to know what happens next. And in fact, I was the old guy from up going bar and slamming the door in the film's face. Now, I confess, I know that I can do this, that I can just go, okay, fine, no, I've lost it now. I've lost patience. And I am sure that next week the film will do fantastically well, and we will get loads of emails from people saying that they went and they had a great time. And I'm sure that's the case. I really wanted to love it

and I did not care for it at all and in fact I got quite cross with it quite quickly I wonder if in future years kids will watch or just young people will watch this film and go wow so back in the day under 16s could watch this stuff

because that's the big story this week when we're talking about the government plans to ban social media for the under 16s and I would I've only heard that clip, and Gretelie's character was obviously annoying when was intended to be annoying. And then you mentioned the cyber bullying. Well, cyber bullying has just got a lily pad and they can message each other. So I don't know whether that counts as social media, but if the...

But is the... No, I'm wondering if that's exactly the kind of thing that the government are trying to, as they have done in Australia, it'd say, no, you can't do that. Well, I think... And the tech companies need to make sure that that doesn't happen. So this is actually quite a newsy newsie newsreeper. film. I think that it's completely coincidental that these

two things are, like, and I also think that what the film has to say about, because it's like, is it online, I mean, you know, are, the whole thing about powering up and powering just none of it makes any sense. None of it, none of its connectivity makes any sense at all, even to a Luddite like me.

But it's like, you know, the lily pad thing in which they're messaging, so their friends sitting together but they're messaging each other on the thing. Does that count of social media? Probably does. Probably does. So I wonder if this, if this Ban this filth. Yeah, well, I wonder if it's going to be one of those. Does the film add to the people who say under 16s shouldn't be able to watch it or not?

No, can I be honest with you? I don't think it adds anything to any debates at all. I think it is literally a product. I think it is a product and I don't think it has anything profound to say, and I hate the fact that I'm saying that about a Toy Story film. It would be interesting to know in the same ways that we had a disclosed email from someone who'd gone with a nine-year-old. Be interested to know if you go and see Toy Story 5 with a movie. with a nine-year-old or similar.

Yeah, and I'm sure... To find out what they thought of it and whether their reaction was any different. I'm sure that we will get emails from people saying, and as I said, I am at least aware of this. I am aware that I am the old guy from Up, but I can't lie to you, I really didn't like it. Child One, who has two kids of his own,

is flying back into the country this weekend so that he and I can go and see gorillas. Oh, really? And they're playing at the Tottenham Stadium, which would be great thing. And Toy Street. Story 1, I went to see, as I've mentioned before, because it was a PG. And I thought, because Child 1 was like 4, I was thinking, can he go and see a PG?

You know, why is it a PG? So I'm thinking, that's how long these films, because the maths is one thing. And then you equate it to where you are in real time. You're thinking, these have been with us forever. When the first Toy Story movie came out, and I was shown, just before it came out, we were shown a sort of working, some bits of it. And I remember us all sitting there going, what is it? What is this?

That's what? That's not a three-dimensional, like the CG was so well done that it was like, I can't quite figure out what I'm watching. Like I said, it felt slightly hallucinatory. And then, of course,

you see the film and the genius of the film is that the technology is not what's important. The genius of Toy Story is that it's the characters that are important. And that is true of one, two and three. It's less true of four, and it's absolutely not true of five. Correspondence at cabanamo.com.

I'm sure, as Mark said, I'm sure we get lots of correspondence about Toy Story, I'm happy to be contradicted. Please let's know what you think, or you may well agree. So it may well be that, you know, it wouldn't be a surprise if five was disappointing. No, exactly. It is the difficult fifth album.

So just before we're done, we have a Wattson. You can send us a voice note, send us a video of something that is movie related or movie adjacent. Yes. For example, here is Santos. Hello, Simon and Mark. This is Santos Joy from Film at the Harth in Horsley, Northumberland. On Saturday, June 27th, we're hosting a special 40th anniversary screening of James Cameron's Sci-Fi Action Classic Aliens. And we're going to be joined by Neil Cole of the Museum of Classic Sci-Fi,

who's bringing along some of the museum's film-used xenomorph exhibits, giving fans a rare opportunity to see some real movie monsters up close. So Saturday 27th of June, film at the hearth in Horsley. Game over, man. That's exactly what you want. That's a very good build-back. Santos, thank you very much indeed. You can send all your stuff to correspondence at codemay.com. That's it for this week.

This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh and Heather. The producer was Dom, the redactor Simon Bull. Gully gets a mention. I think Gully should have a mention because he is... Came in. He's actually in charge and he turned off our air conditioning, which is why my throat is dry. In Take 2, not one but two reviews.

Mark will also be in another place. You'll be in a hotel somewhere. The acoustics will be different and weird. The acoustics will be horrible. Review with Nino and Lesbian Space Princess. So come and join us on Patreon for the... exclusive. Good stuff, Mark. What is your film of the week? It sounded like you said, I was going to be reviewing a film called Nino and Lesbian Space Princess.

That could be. You could run them all together. Film of the week with apologies to the Welsh speaking listeners, Effie Ablaeenei or Effie Ablaeana. We'll be back next week with a review of Supergirl, I would think, amongst other things. I can bestow a year's ultra membership. I'm going to give it to two people. Can I do two? Can I give it to two people? Redacted doesn't look that impressed. He's going to have to come out of his own money. But I think if we could mention Olaf Ringel Band, and Serge Zendor.

They just sound like two wonderful characters in a movie. And also they were very informative and interesting email. So Serge Zendor and Olaf Ringelband are going to get a year's ultra membership. And a consolation prize to Zafob Bebelbrox. Thank you for listening. Take two has landed alongside this one.