Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Is Stephen Graham another bad boy in THE GOOD BOY?

Episode Date: March 19, 2026

Some exciting news—The Take is now on Patreon: www.patreon.com/kermodeandmayo. Become a Vanguardista or an Ultra Vanguardista to get video episodes of Take Two every week, plus member-only chat rooms, polls and submissions to influence the show, behind-the-scenes photos and videos, the monthly Redactor’s Roundup newsletter, and access to a new fortnightly LIVE show—a raucous, unfiltered lunchtime special with the Good Doctors, new features, and live chat so you can heckle, vote, and have your questions read out in real time. On this week’s episode of Kermode and Mayo’s Take, Stephen Graham joins us to talk about his new film The Good Boy. It’s an unsettling thriller where he plays a father fixated on a strange rehabilitation ritual for a violent young man who he takes in and…erm… chains up in his basement. Stephen chats to Simon about navigating the film’s darker emotional undercurrents, finding the human intrigue in morally murky territory, and being his usual lovely Liverpudlian self. You’ll be able to hear Mark’s full verdict on The Good Boy in this week’s show too, alongside a packed slate of other new releases. First up, Project Hail Mary finally lands—bringing big ideas, bigger stakes, and one very lonely astronaut to the big screen. Then there’s Ready or Not 2: Here I Come, which ups the ante on the original’s gleefully gory game of survival. And finally, Dead Man’s Wire, a tense thriller starring Bill Skarsgard that sees a desperate act spiral into a gripping standoff. Elsewhere, we’ll have all the usual Take treats: the box office top 10, a Laughter Lift that may (or may not) brighten your week, and your ever-wonderful correspondence. Thanks for listening! Timecodes: 00:00:00 Show starts 00:09:44 Dead Man's Wire review 00:18:12 Box office top ten 00:30:51 Stephen Graham interview 00:44:11 The Good Boy review 00:53:37 Laughter Lift 00:57:06 Ready or Not 2: Here I Come review 01:04:42 What's On? 01:09:21 Project Hail Mary You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo Please take our survey and help shape the future of our show: https://www.kermodeandmayo.com/survey 🌎 Get an exclusive 15% discount on your first Saily data plans! Use code [Take] at checkout. Download Saily app or go to to https://saily.com/Take ⛵ A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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There's never been a better time to become a vanguard Easter. Free offer, now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a vanguard Easter, we salute you. Well, here we go. This is another take and you're very welcome. Mark is looking, well, you were looking incredible. and I was going to do some what I believe is called frame mogging, so I've just been told. Just explain the mugging thing.

I only heard about it when you did like two minutes ago. Basically, if I was taller than you, I would be able to height mug you. Right. And if you had better hair than me, you'd be able to hair mug. It's basically pointless bragging as far as I can make out. so that you did have, you were super high res and then your frame rate was poor. But I was looking forward to frame-mogging.

Again, something I've never done. But now I think we're equal. Yes. Blurry. Because we're, yes, right, we're constantly experimenting with new ways of presenting the show to make us look like something other than two old men. And there's a whole new sort of fabulous camera setup,

which we're going to be moving toward. But unfortunately, when I connected it up to the machine, the machine went, hang on, I can't be dealing with that at all. That's just, that's too many ips per second or something.

I don't know what over is. Too many revolutions per minute. Exactly. Everything would be fine. If Kate Winslet could just film it for us and frame everything and light everything, then we would always look amazing. Talk with high res is,

you know, you got a blemish? Oh, look, there it is. I remember when, when HD TV came in, the panic, that went around the newsrooms and everything, because suddenly, you know,

you were being seen in uncritical close-up, actually. I also remember that soap operas suddenly started looking like they've been filmed in a backyard because you could see that the sets were sets and everybody had to redo all the... Everything was changed by the arrival of HD, whereas before it was just lovely Vaseline on the lens blur.

You know, we all just looked like we were wandering around in showbizland. It was an improvement that made. made things worse. And the word for that is? Verslim Besrung. Very good. Which is my favourite German compound word from back in the day.

So, Oscars are done. So there will be, I don't know, we're not planning any Oscar chat here because we've done it already. We did. And if you missed it, there's a special show which landed on Monday. It landed immediately on Monday morning after the Oscars. We woke up first thing. I stayed up all night in the glamorous travel.

Lodge Drury Lane. Yes. And then we recorded at 8 o'clock, and I think it was up at 9. So, you know, there we go. So Travel Lodge on one hand, Drury Lane on the other, which makes it a showbiz location, for sure. So what's coming up on this program then? We have a super packed show.

We have reviews of Dead Man's Wire. It's a new film by Gus Van Sant. Ready or Not 2, Here I Come, which was the sequel to, guess what, Ready or Not, which I review back in 2019. Project Hail Mary, my interview, surprisingly, with Ryan Gosting, wasn't you because you were in Glamorous Copenhagen, was on last week's show, you can still download that, and The Good Boy, which brings us to our very special guest. Yeah, Stephen Graham is back on the show. And it's, you know, you just know it's going to be good because he's, again, he's one of those people that if he's being interviewed on a show, he's going to make the show better. If he stars in a

film, he's going to make the film better. He's always worth watching and always worth listening to. And you can do just that in a few minutes' time. And reviews in Take 2. Yeah, in Take 2, we have a new film starring Leslie Manville and Kieran Heinz called Midwinter Break. Okay. Also in Take 2, you get even more of the good stuff, including the Five Question Film Club.

Three questions, Your Majesty. Last week it was with Nail and I, and since kicking off, it has just last month. We've had, among others, The Red Shoes, Fargo, Heather's and The Elephant Man. You can head over to Patreon if you'd like to join that particular club. And with the release of Project Hail Mary, we've been asking you for your tip, top, Ryan Gosling performances in one frame back. And there'll be questions, Schmestians, in which Mark, in particular, has to answer the question, does he feel the same way about Harrison Ford as he did 30 years ago? anyway. Wow.

Really? I can't remember what I thought 30 years. I can't remember what I thought yesterday. I shall remind you. Oh, shall you? Yeah, because fortunately these things are still recorded. Rob White says, Dear Bitter and Mild, I finally caught Mother's Pride a week after release

and assumed someone would have already written in about its brewing details. Martin Cloons was on the show. He's the start of the film. But since nothing was read out last week, I thought I'd offer a brewer's, perspective on just how accurate it all was. So, of course, this is, you know, one hill to die on and someone, and the wrong hawk in Hamnet,

the wrong swimming stroke. That's my favourite detail. Absolutely favourite detail. The subplot about adding sugar to the beer, later swap for honey, is broadly right. Most fermentable sugars come from grain, and extra sugar is usually for speciality beers or cost cutting. But adding £8 instead of £3 to a batch that. would only bump the alcohol content by under 2%.

So calling it attempted murder is ambitious. The brewer's stick looking that filthy made me wince, though there is some truth behind it. Wood does harbour wild yeast and bacteria, which is why modern breweries avoid it unless they want funky flavours. Historically, though, farmhouse brewers genuinely believe their magic stick

gave their beer a unique character. And in a way, it did, thanks to whatever was that was living in the grain of the wood. Judging blind in competitions is absolutely essential, so they got that right. The brew kit and the film also looked very close to the test setup that we use, but if it really cost 15 grand to replace the seller, definitely enjoyed their day. As for the film itself, I think Mark was a touch harsh. The trailer gives away the whole plot, yes, but it still delivered more laughs and charm than I expected, though after no other choice in Wuthering Heights, perhaps I was just needing something lighter. If you're ever in

Worcester, dropped by the hop shed. I'd be happy to show you around, Rob White, who really owns the hop shed, or certainly works there. So that's, you know, a tick for Mother's Pride, which does what it says on the tin, and the brewery stuff, the brewing detail is clearly pretty much accurate. Very good. Excellent. Well, I'm very, very glad. And I think it's doing all right.

I think it will feature in the top ten run there, won't it? I believe it will. I'm looking forward to it already. Damien says, slightly confusingly, dear Sir Madam, which is a little vague, or it's just a joke. Yes, I think it's a joke. I think it's a to whom it may concern, isn't it? Okay.

I'm a film slash media teacher at St. Michael's in Crosby. Over the past two years, my year 13 students have followed your podcasts and videos for insights into films that they're studying for their exams this summer. I realize this might not be possible, but is there any chance of an email, even video message that I can use to help boost their morale and confidence in their run-up to the exams. So that's the first thing. So this is the year 13s at St. Michael's in Crosby. Mark, what is your message to the year 13s at St. Michael's in Crosby taught so well by Damien? You have been taught absolutely brilliantly and everything he said is completely correct. And all the very best for your

exams. Yes, exactly. But with the level of of teaching that you've had, there is no question you are going to sail through and ace it. Damien says, I know this might not be possible, but I said we've just done it, but at least it's given me the chance to thank you both for helping to bring this subject alive, making it accessible in helping them to achieve some fantastic results to date. The school serves some of the most deprived areas of the city, and through your influence, our students have seen that despite their background, that this could be a potential career path. Your influence can be seen in how 60% of the the group, going on to study film or film-related courses at university from September.

You have developed their interest in the subject and encouraged additional super-curricular activity, where they have undertaken additional independent research into your talks and programmes such as the Liverpool University Talk at their Literary Festival. At this point, I was thinking, has he written to the right people? But anyway, you have even helped me with my teaching and made my lessons more entertaining, and for that I am eternally grateful. So there you go. We're a national service, Mark.

Very good. I've always said that we were public service broadcasters. Damien, thank you very much. Well, we once were properly, and now we're now on the take, obviously. We are literally, we are quite literally on the take. Well done. Correspondents at keratimero.com, what is new and worth reviewing? Could I just say it had never occurred to me?

Do you think that's why we're called The Take? Because Kermode and Mayer are on the take. Yeah, on the take. I'm sure other people have thought of it. even if we haven't said it out loud before. I'm sorry that we hadn't. Okay, so Dead Man's Wire, which is the new film from director Gus Van Sant, who's the kind of American, he's worked in both indie and mainstream films,

my own private Idaho, to die for, Goodwill Hunting, Elephant, and the frankly inexplicable 1990s shot-for-shot remake of Psycho, which you'll remember. So Dead Man's Wire is written by Austin Collodney. It is inspired by a real life case that I did not know about from 19, 77, I think, which was a standoff between an irate mortgage owner turned kidnapper, Tony Kyritsis, who took hostage mortgage broker Richard Hall in what then became a kind of a media circus. Here is a clip from the film. So I imagine you want to talk about the land and everything that you and dad have been going through.

Wait, hang on a second. Now you turn around. Hey, Tony. It's a serious, Dick. Real serious. I'm gonna wire this here shock under your neck. Hey, now, Tony, put it away. Tony, you don't wanna do that.

This company's done me wrong. So I'm gonna let the world know what you and your dad have done to me. Simple as that. So that wire is indeed the dead man's wire of the title used to attach a 12-gauge Winchester rifle to the back of Hall's head, meaning that if anything happened to Tony, the gun would go off. There is a, I mean, I didn't know about this until I saw the film, but I looked at it. There is a Pulitzer Prize winning photograph of them appearing in a media interview with him standing behind him,

with the gun literally wired to his head, which became the most famous. image from the siege. So in the film, the two central characters played by Bill Scarsgaard. Obviously, Bill Scarsgaard is the son of Stellan Scarsguard and is the brother of Robin Starstead. Sarsted, not Starstead, obviously. Sarstead, that's right. And I think they all appeared together in Starlight Express. Was that right? Yes. Yes, that's right. And they all sing backing vocals on Eden Cain's greatest hits. That's right, with Peter Sarzgard. That's correct. That's the one. Good. and Take Montgomery. And then Al Pacino has a sort of a small role as Hall's slimy father,

the mortgage broker's father, owns the company, who refuses to negotiate with the kidnapper or admit any guilt in ripping him off, even when his son's head is quite literally on the line. Apparently, Alpercino filmed all his scenes in one day. Coleman Domingo's scenes took even longer. So he plays a DJ who gets dragged in as part of the media circus. because the kidnapper will only talk really to people that he trusts. And one of those turns out to be DJ. So there is a weighty debt in this to Sydney Limet's Dog Day Afternoon, which I imagine you've seen Dog Day Afternoon, right?

Oh, yeah, a long time ago. But it's a brilliant film. Again, it's a true story, but starred Al Pacino as real-life bank robber. I mean, they took some liberties with the story, who became a media celebrity during the course of a bank siege. In this story, the kidnapper similarly becomes a, quote, goddamn national hero as the public watching this playing out in the media, get behind him as somebody who is standing up against the evil fat cats and mortgage brokers.

Now, apparently this story has been told before, and again, I confess I didn't know about it. There's a feature-length documentary called Dead Man's Line from Twitter, And the makers of that doc were involved in the research for this feature, which was originally announced a couple of years ago with Werner Herzog and Nick Cage attached to direct and star. There was also, yeah, I know, exactly. There was also, well, anyway, I know all films have sort of different incarnations before, but I just thought that was particularly interesting. There was also apparently dramatized eight episode podcast starring John Hamm, which also proved influential. Despite all that, I knew nothing about it at all until I saw the film. And so watching the film, I was seeing the story play out for the first time.

And I found it to be gripping, derivative to some extent, because it does a very, very weighty debt to Dog Day Afternoon. Melancholy in that way that it's about something that on the one hand is horrible and violent and exploitative. But on the other hand, has this kind of air of pathos and crisis. underneath it. Gus Van Sant said that when he read the script, there were links embedded in the script. You could go back and you could listen to the original phone calls that were made during things.

As I said, this was all sort of solidly documented. And he said that the whole thing had a kind of barnstormer energy to it. And I actually have to say the film itself does. I mean, the film does have a very propulsive energy, despite the fact that it can feel like an addendum's dog day afternoon. And I should say it isn't as good as dog day afternoon, but then that's a very, very high bar.

I mean, it's like saying something isn't as good as Midnight Cowboy but can have a sort of similar atmosphere to it. I actually found it very gripping. I think the performances are very good. The evocation of the 70s milieu is terrifically well done. I mean, it does look like a film which is made in the period in which it is set. And at the center of it, you do have this character of this guy who is angry and dangerous, but also wronged and feels wronged. And then you've got this appearance by Pacino as this

incredibly high-handed sort of smug, dismissive, bad father figure. And then you have the person who has been kidnapped, who during the course of the movie, I think that's a really good job of reminding you that at the center of this, there is somebody in the most appalling circumstance. So I thought it walked a very interesting line between all of those things. And once again, it is a film about the way in which the media can become really bizarrely, almost serially complicit in the idea of these things, these kind of events playing out. I remember you and I we're talking recently about a film in which the media are following a siege situation, and there's all these arguments about whether or not,

what happens if somebody dies, what happens if somebody gets killed? Are we still going to be broadcasting it? And I do think those are the kind of questions that you do need to return to, and I think this does go back to. So like I said, it's not fiercely original, but I didn't know this story. It does have a great debt to Dog Day Afternoon, that it obviously acknowledges by the casting of Al Pacino.

But I found it very gripping, and I thought, Stelan Scarscard, Bill Scarsgaard's performance was really on point because he really gets that thing between anger and pathos and confusion, which is the thing that fires the story. I think that other film that you're referencing is September 5. It is starring Robin Starsgard. That's the one. Which is still such a fantastic film, and if you haven't seen it worth hunting down,

And if you're watching this on YouTube, and you feel like commenting about the fact that none of those people we have mentioned are related to each other, we know. But they are, really, underneath it all. Okay, so we'll be back. Box Office Top 10 is on the way in just a moment. Mark, you know that scene in A Beautiful Mind where Russell Crow plays John Nash, and he's got intense, mathematical scribblings on the walls of his shed. I do. He wasn't bad in that, Russell. Well, that's what my head feels like when I try to remember all the passwords and login details

for my online shopping accounts. It's just why I never get any birthday presents from you, which is very convenient. One of the reasons. Anyway, you need to look out for the purple button at the top of the payment options. No need to log in. You can just complete your checkout with the tap of one button. Easy. And it's brought to you by Shopify.

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with Shopify and their shop pay button. Sign up for your £1 a month trial today at Shopify.com.com. Go to Shopify. Go.uk slash take. Hey, Sal. Hank, what's going on?

We haven't worked a case in years. I just bought my car at Carvana and it was so easy, too easy. Think something's up? You tell me. They got thousands of options. Found a great car and a great price. Uh-huh.

And it got delivered the next day. It sounds like Carbana just makes it easy to buy your car, Hank. Yeah, you're right. Case closed. Buy your car today. On Carvana. Delivery fees may apply.

Okay, comes to the box office, top 10, starring, starting rather disconcertingly, at number 10, yeah, at number 10, the secret agent. Which I absolutely love. Obviously, it would have been nice to see it sweeping the board at the Oscars, but that was never going to happen, but I think it's a really terrific movie, and I advise everybody to see it. And number nine is the bride, exclamation mark. So there we go.

This is week two, and it's number nine. So it means it's not going to be in the chart next week, which means that its box office collapse is complete. I think it's a shame because I think it's an adventurous film. I think there are things in it that work and things in it that don't work, but I would much rather see somebody take this kind of swing and fall flat than to see somebody play it safe. But it is a shame. It has properly tanked at the box office. Jase, from Matt There, London, Dear Video and Dron,

During Mark's recent review of The Bride, he started off by saying that the two main characters are basically Bonnie and Clyde, to which I immediately exclaimed Bonnie and died. Hey! Oh, I am so sorry I didn't think of that joke. That is a really good joke. That is a really, really good joke. That's up there with everything everywhere all at twice. I'm sorry. I feel ashamed that I didn't do that.

Also up there with Watton is Red Planet, as I was going to say. Who's this now? Martha, and it's Martha, exclamation mark. Okay. Dear Mark, exclamation mark, and Simon exclamation mark, I am writing, how exhausting life would be if everything had an exclamation mark after everything. I'm going to work. I'm writing this just after my screening of The Bride and long story short, I loved it.

Cue my surprise at finding negative review after negative review, which brought back memories to the onslaught received by Joker Folly Adirt, which I also enjoyed. This film is many things. It's a fun, campy, wild joyride, full of thrill, violent dancing, and Bonnie and Clydesk chases, which I thoroughly enjoyed. One thing it definitely isn't, though, is a feminist retelling of Frankenstein, which I have seen it called by various reviewers. Frankenstein has always been, and always will be a feminist tale,

written by an 18-year-old Mary Shelley who Gillenholds spotlight and brings back to not life in this film. For me, a lifelong fan of Frankenstein and all things gothic feminist literature. This was a very fun two hours, albeit spent in little company with unfortunately only two other people in my screening,

down with the usual rubbish and up with fun cinema from Martha. Thank you, Martha. The one thing I would say about that is that if we're going to take anything positive from the box office failure of the bride, if you haven't seen it in a cinema yet, go and see it because actually it's kind of lovely to see a film in a cinema in which you may be the only person there. Not lovely for the film, we all accept that it should have done better,

but I do love that experience of watching a film when you're not being surrounded by popcorn and noise. Interesting to see how many of these films remaining in the 10 would be improved with an exclamation mark. it would certainly fit for our number eight movie, which is epic Elvis Presley in concert. It kind of feels as it's got an exclamation mark anyway. Yeah, it does. And I loved it, you loved it.

The thing that I think is most impressive about it is it's fine. You know, people like Sanjeev loving it because they're diehard Elvis fans. You like Elvis, but you're not a devotee, but I think you saw sides of him that... No, it was great. It's an absolutely great film. And I know loads of people now who've seen it, who have actively told me that they are not Elvis fans,

and they went along grudgingly, and they came out thinking, well, I'm sorry, that was a really, really good show. Absolutely. Goat is at number seven? I mean, doing amazingly well. It's very, very average, but in its seventh week, sorry, in its fifth week, it's at number seven, whereas the bride, which is a much more interesting movie,

in its second week, is at number nine. But then Scream Seven is at number six? Yeah, and that just, just well, yeah. I mean, unfortunately, the proof of that is that their franchises are franchises are franchises and they will keep franchising. Wuthering Heights, in inverted commas, is it number five? So, again, doing pretty solidly. As I said, I had this conversation with Charles Gant about, you know, how well has it done? He said, yes, it has done well. It has more than washed its face and that's great. The debate rages about how seriously one should or shouldn't take Wuthering Heights.

But I still think that, you know, it's preposterous and it's ridiculous. But on the other hand, it is a film that is aimed at a certain female teenage demographic that is sorely overlooked by cinemas. And I think the fact that you've got this and the bride in the top ten at the same time, they won't both be in the top ten next week. only one of them will, is encouraging. And I just wish the bride was doing better financially. Mother's Pride is it number four? Well, top brewing advice, apparently.

Great accuracy, not on the addition of the sugar, but correct on most of the other things, including the murky quality of the wooden stick. Because you never know what is hiding in its grooves, basically. See our conversation with Martin Clues, if you want more details on Wuthering Heights, on Mother's Pride, I beg you pardon, although he's in both.

He is. He's in both. He's in both. At number five and at number four. Number three, how to make it killing? I mean, it's okay. It's okay if you haven't seen kind hearts and coronets. But the thing that I would say is,

if you haven't seen kind hearts and coronets and you've got a couple of hours free, watch kind hearts and coronet. Because the thing with how to make a killing is, yes, it's fine. but it is effectively a remake of a film which is one of the great dark comedies of all time. And it's impossible to not view it through that lens. However, unexpectedly, a bunch of numbers says, I saw it this evening.

It was enjoyable. Similar in some ways to The House Made, it's constantly amusing without being lull funny, haven't seen Kind Hearts and Coronets, so I don't have a reference point. So a lot of people won't have that. I know. But if this show is anything, a lot of... at all. And if there is any point in film criticism, it is in saying to direct you to movies you might not have seen. And I can't believe I'm saying this about Kind Hearts and Coronets,

because when I was growing up, it was just such a staple. I mean, it was on at the, well, what used to be the Rex cinema, like every other week. Really, if you haven't seen Kind Hearts and Coronets, you should see it because it's one of those sort of touchstone texts. It is every bit as good as everyone keeps telling you. Someone who wants to be called The Music, a bunch of numbers. The film could have been a lot darker with a lot more substantive characters, but the whole let me very briefly narrate my life from prison thing was hokey, along with most of the acting. Still a good enough plot to watch the whole thing, but very forgettable.

There is that film that you're halfway through. You think, it's 11 o'clock already. Shall I? Oh, no, I'm going to stay to the end. So it is good enough, but not so great that you'd remember it the following day. Yeah, that is a good phrase. Good enough. That will do, Pig. Number two is Reminders of Him. Which is, again, interesting because, so basically the novelist behind it is now becoming the Nick Sparks of Our Time.

And when I was reviewing the film last week, I said, look, it is hokey and it is cheesy, and it basically makes no sense in the way that many reminds. dramatic dramas with a slightly, slightly edgy edge may not do. But on the other hand, it worked for me because in the final act, I did find myself tearing up because I'm a sucker for all that stuff. And I was always a kind of, I was always a sucker for the next box, the next box movie. So this does exactly what it says on the tin. As I said, there is a, when I was raising questions at the beginning about, you know, what will happen with this? Well, the poster itself is a little bit of a plot spoiler.

But it is that, it is a very, very cheesy melodrama that is raised above that by the fact that it has decent enough performances from Michael Monroe at the very center of it to give it a bit of edge, to give it a bit of reality. Yeah.

If a film has an edgy edge, as you just said, is that like sharper than just having an edge? There's like an edge to the edge? Yeah, I realized, as I said it, that it was a really, foolish thing to have said out loud, but unfortunately, that's the way that broadcasting works. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. And talking of, I mean, we could do more about this when you review the movie, but the poster for the post as far as posters that give things away

as concerned, Project Hail Mary poster, I mean, come on, guys, you can do a lot better than that. It's exciting enough, you don't have to reveal that major thing that you reveal on the poster. I know, I know, I know. So, reminders of him, is at number two, and the UK box office number one is hoppers. Yeah, which I think is fine. I mean, it's a Pixar movie, so a fine Pixar movie is a lot better than a lot of other films. I don't think it's classic Pixar, but I do think that its message of communication and eco-friendly themes is something that we need at the moment. Do we have any correspondence about it?

We do not have any correspondence on hoppers. Well, there we go. Simon Paul has just put a breaking news story. One Last Deal, which we reviewed last week, is in at number 30, total gross of 17,000, which means it has a site average of £92 from 187 sites. So in the top 10, it's at number 30. That's right.

Does that count as like a mega hit, do you think? Huge, huge. I mean, they should have called it run with your. deal or one last wife. Yeah. Well, I think everyone involved with that, I feel we'll be very pleased with that. So well done to, so well done to them. In a moment, you'll hear a fine conversation with Stephen Graham.

You never know who's going to show up on For the Love with Gin Hatmaker. From Mel Robbins to Tignitaro, Kate Bowler to Stanley Tucci. I'm Gin Hatmaker, and every week, my dear friend Amy and I dive deep. with incredible guests who make us laugh and cry and think a little bigger about life in the middle years. For the Love, where great stories meet unforgettable people. Follow and listen wherever you get your podcasts. Infamous is the gossip show that's smart. We talk about Tyra Banks and bringing down top model. We talk about Jenna Jameson and how she dominated the 90s. You know, she's horny and she's in charge. She just was very.

very smart about marketing herself. We talk about celebrities who maybe shouldn't be celebrities, like the Beckham guy. Brooklyn is their first kid. He's had a little bit of the Nepo baby curse. We investigate orgasm cults. A woman's erotic power can unlock many other powers in her life. And, of course, we discuss people who have gotten into lots of trouble. My name is Molly McLaughlin. I am one of Jen Shaw's many victims. She was defrauding the elderly, and her tagline was the only thing I'm guilty of is being shamazing.

Listen to Infamous, the gossip show that's smart. The show's called Infamous. So we're going to talk to Stephen Graham in just a second. Let's just wish Ollie Tetlow all the very best. Congratulations on some potentially very good news. Ollie, thanks very much for getting in touch. Yes, thank you very much. And we were delighted to get your email.

Thank you. So Stephen Graham then. I mean, he kind of doesn't need any introduction, but I'll just run through a couple of highlights. Gangs of New York, Snatch, This is England, Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy, The Irishman, Boiling Point, Pirates of the Caribbean, your favourite, obviously, a Venom, boardwalk empire, line of duty,

peaky blinders, of course, adolescents, the Emmy-winning Netflix show, multiple BAFTA nominations, an OBE for services to drama. Everybody loves him. We'll talk more with Stephen Graham and his new movie The Good Boy after this clip.

I know it may look unconventional. Believe me, we won't be keeping him there for long. Tommy's going through a rebellious face. I'm going to obliterate you the second I got out of here. It's quite impressive. Really? How you've managed to aimlessly float through your whole life completely unnoticed. You're scared, aren't you? Ah!

What do you think all of this is funny? This is real life. You're already dead, you scum! We treat each other with respect. Bad boy! Bad boy! Bad boy! Bad boy! I would like to apologise for what I did to you. I promise not to do it again. Good boy. That's a clip from The Good Boy. It stars Steve.

Stephen Graham, well, and many other people as well. But Stephen, hello, say. Very nice to see you. Nice to see you. So we're recording this interview after Mark's reviewed it. So the review will come. People will hear the review in just a moment. Oh, no.

Sorry. It's fine. It's a podcast. There are different standards. So I can tell you what you think is just the moment. So it's called The Good Boy. Just for clarity. In America, it's called Heal.

Is that right? That is correct. For reasons beyond my control. and beyond anything else. I think there was a film about a dog, so they had that title as well, I think if you're correct, so that's right, we changed it.

So if you see it as heel, what we're talking about is The Good Boy. Introduce us in your own words to what we need to know about the Good Boy. It's a film about a family who are going through bereavement and grief, and they find a boy.

And they find a boy. And they bring him home. And this boy is, this young man is not a upstanding member of society, should we say. No. So they bring him home. And they try to introduce him to a world of literature and music and love and nice food. And the only thing is they keep him in a basement. And chained by the neck.

And chained by the neck, yeah. Okay, so lots to unpack. Played by Anson Boone, by the way. Who's fantastic. He is, he is. I saw him in Mobland, playing kind of the same out of control character, but he's brilliant at, you know. In fact, I was going to say he feels very dangerous, but you all feel pretty dangerous. Do you know the thing about Anson as well, sorry to interrupt, the thing about Antonin is he's one of the most sweetest, wonderful, kind, gentle young men you will ever meet.

He's so respectful. he's the consummate professional. He turns up on time, he knows his lines, and he comes with an idea, and he's just always willing to learn, do you know what I mean? Which was wonderful. So you play Chris, and you're married to Andrew Reisbrot. He's phenomenal. He is phenomenal.

I'm amazed. After you were parents in Matilda, the musical, that anyone thought you would be good as parents ever again. Well, it was a similar thing. Was it not? It was parents from a very... Mr. Wormwood? Yeah, it was...

But it was, you know, I had such a wonderful experience with Andrea. And we have the same age, and Jane, who Andrea has been with, I think, almost as long as me. I've been with Jane for 25 years. And we were talking about this project. It went away at one point. Then it came back. And I just said, do you know what? I've been looking at the script again.

Do you think, do you think Andrea might be free and right for this part? And Jane said, you wouldn't believe it, but she's working on a project with Jan anyway. So let me find out. And that's kind of... So this is Yankemasa, who's the director? Yeah. Yeah, who made that beautiful, phenomenal film, Corpus Christi. So your character is Chris.

Yeah. From Beaconhead. From Bergenhead. He's not from Liverpool. Okay. I miss the... I want to get that out of it. I know there's a subtle difference, but I...

It's a massive difference. That was lost on me. And we know that you are a powerful man because we've seen you box. A thousand blows, it's back, sex, all that kind of stuff. So we know that you're very strong. and you are very, you have many muscles. Thank you very much.

But what I'm fascinated by is how you managed to make Chris appear so weedy. So I know this comes under the heading of acting, but what is it about the way he stands and the way he walks, which makes us think this man is in conflict, but he's also a bit of a weed? I thank you so much that my job is complete. And to come from you, that's a huge honour. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart, honestly.

Um, that was my intention. My intention was to try and physically make him look like a man who was incapable of any kind of violence. Is that posture? Yeah, yeah, it really is, you know, and it's, it's the physicality of how we create characters. You know, that whole kind of, that's a huge part of what we do for me personally. So for me to try and transform totally to a man who you would perceive as someone who is very kind of innocent and, very insecure, and he has all of these things, you know what I mean? He has all of these qualities to him. And you and Andrew Rysbara, as your wife, are kind of, it sort of reminded me of Victorian moralists, that self-improvement is a good thing, and that if we can get you away from your social media,

and we play you classical music, and you read classic books that you can improve yourself, there is that kind of Victorian missionary mindset. Would that be appropriate? That's bang on. That's absolutely. bang on. And did you see the film that we made him watch as well? Kez. Oh, Kez, yes. We're watching Kez. So we're trying to introduce it. You have like a film night and we'll sit down and watch. So it's kind of all of those things, you know, look, and I don't mean to be, but they were, they were things that my mum and dad did with me. Obviously, I wasn't changed in the basement. No, okay. But that introduction and bringing, and it comes from a place of love,

mostly in that respect, you know, trying to introduce them to literature and music and films. And it's that trying to educate through creativity in a different way to broaden the mind. That was that that's where it comes from something. It comes from a place of, to enhance his social, mental and, you know, his whole well-being, basically. That's kind of what it, what it is we're trying to do in that context. But it sort of works as well. If we just leave the chains the tasers and the neck and everything to one side. He does, at the start of the film, he hates the idea of reading a book, but then he's clearly getting into it. Yeah. So this is a, maybe you're trying to do the right thing with just unfortunate methods. Yeah, with the wrong

methods. So it's, so the idea is right. It's the execution of that ideal that we have, which is wrong, do you know what I mean? In many ways. And you, and Andrea sit down and you show him some of his social media and some of the terrible things that he's been doing. So can I ask you an unfair question? Of course. Okay.

It made me wonder what Chris and Catherine, played by you and Andrea Ryasbara, would have made of adolescence. Oh. Would they have found it uncomfortable? No, I think they'd have took a lot from it.

I think they, oh, wow, that's, you know, you've messed with me, Eddie. I feel like I'm going into some kind of vortex of some kind of, okay, so what did my character think about something that I did? Stephen Graham universe. But I'd say, yeah, you've twisted me inside my own bonds. I think they would have found it powerful.

I think they would have agreed with what the message was within it. Look, and it's all subjective, you take your own message from it. But I think they would have, they would have agreed with its sentiment. Yeah. It just occurred to me halfway through. I just wondered, because social media and Tommy's social media it was important that, you know, that's where these kind of both these projects overlap.

But it is, that's why I said it was an unfair question. No, but it was a great question because it got me brain scrambled. I'll tell you what Mark thought. Oh, okay. Okay. The thing I wrote down was, which he hasn't actually said on air yet because he's about to say it, he called it an impressively nasty black comedy. Yes.

With a hint of clockwork orange. Get in! Is that what he actually said? Yes, that is. That's, I make, that's. That's brilliant. That's brilliant. It's a shame we've got a posters. We could have stuck that on, couldn't we?

Can we still? Is it too late? Because that's phenomenal. That's outstanding. All right. I'm exceptionally happy. We're sitting in front of Good Boy posters, which has got very... I mean, you look at the poster, you go, okay, I know exactly what I'm going to see.

Unlike anything you'll see this year in a heart-stopping thriller, on top of which you can now put an impressively nasty black comedy. Just to explain the Clockwork Orange reference for people who haven't seen. Well, it's that kind of, you know, that, and forgive me, it escapes me the wonderful character that he played in Clockware, Orange. It's that trying to readjust him so he becomes an honourable member of society and that, you know, that fantastic scene. It's a wonderful film, isn't it? It's one of my favourite films there, where they've got his eyes pinned open, do you know what I mean? And they're filling him with all the evil and the information of the world, isn't it? It's kind of a long-num

sense, I think, of trying to reprogram, almost similar to kind of like, you know, remember Pink Floyd the Wall as well, that kind of trying to readjust the brain and trying to readjust the logic and the thinking that you have and deconstructing the character that you've created in order to, wow, where's this come from? Deconstruct the character that you've created in order to survive your own world and bringing it right back, but through different means and different methods. So for him to say that it had kind of, you know, reflections of that. That's wonderful.

Okay. So that's a good thing. So that's a very good thing. That's massive. Because it's called The Good Boy. We need to reference your son, who's called Jonathan, played by Kit Rekhusen.

Is that how you say it? Is he the good? Because I think, right, is he, because the film messes with your head a lot. And I end up thinking, is he the good boy? Or is Tommy actually the good boy? Because halfway through this film, I thought,

It's either going to go that way, it was going to go that way. And it didn't. It went in a completely different way. But tell us, so where does Jonathan fit in? Because he's sort of like out of an Enid Blyton. He really is, isn't he? And the kind of the process for that is that that's the kid that they are so afraid of losing as he grows up into that world. And it's all about, you know, and Andrea plays it so beautifully, but it's all about it.

from, for me, my character comes from a place of trying to, it's the woman whom I love. I adore her. Do you know what I mean? I would do anything for her. She's my world. She's my queen. And she's broken. She's completely broken. So my warped twisting mentality is how can I fix hair. I know how I'll fix her. It's like one of those really sad things when your dog dies and stuff. And some people, you know, don't get a dog straight away, but some people will get a dog straight away. So I'm trying to fill that hole in her life by giving here another boy. Because, and it's very ambiguous. But our son that we had ran away and, you know, there's something about that and there's something that was he kept downstairs as well. And we worked on it for a long

time with Jan and me and Andrea come up with the concept that our boy, we tried to give him a home detox. He was, you know, a heroin addict. And so we moved from London for him to be safe now that her parents had left us this big house. But it didn't work out that way. So we tried to chain him up downstairs to kind of basically, yeah, give him a home detox. And he escaped. And we later found out that he was dead. But we never had that opportunity to completely grieve with him. Do you know what I mean? so I'm trying to fulfill that hole. Whereas our little boy, he kind of gets lost because his mother's, his mother's grief is so great

that she's not tending to him and he's kind of lost at the moment. So I take him out on these whole kind of expeditions and like the road thing that we went out and did, you know what I mean? And about safety on the roads and things like that. So I'm trying to mold him into a little mini me, should I say. And there's that scene which is, which is harrowing as well,

but I remember when I was a kid, and that's why I found it so interesting that it was in the script, that like my mum and my aunties and things like that used to say, when their mum caught them smoking, she didn't give them a telling off. She made them smoke a pack of cigarettes in front of them, do you know what I mean? So that's in our script as well. So it's that kind of twisted, kind of sadistic, chastising of the child.

Twisted is absolutely right. And that ending, wow, okay, not talk about that. Because we're out of time. What do we see you in next even? Is it Thousand Blows? Yeah, I think that's just, yeah, I think it's just come out now again,

Thousand Blows series too. Yeah, I think that's the next thing. And then? A few bits of bobs that kind of were working on and stuff. That's always the most disappointing part of the interview. There's not an, oh, oh, no, I can say, yeah, I'm going to do this beautiful script, this wonderful film called Ibelin,

over in Oslo. That's the next thing I'm doing with Tony Colette. All right. Well, it's been fantastic to talk to you, Stephen. Thank you very much indeed. An absolute pleasure and a privilege to always talk to you. Stephen Graham, thank you. So that was Stephen Graham talking to me.

So in the chronology of the show, I spoke to him yesterday, which is Thursday, or it's today, if you've got the show on Thursday. But as we record this on Wednesday, it's tomorrow. In other words, the conversation with Stephen Graham has not happened just yet. So anything controversial and provocative that Stephen just said, Mark cannot react to. Because we haven't heard it because it hasn't happened yet. Because it hasn't happened. But let's just assume what an interesting interview, what a fine chap he is, an intriguing film.

What did you make of The Good Boy? Yes. Well, since I don't know what Stephen Graham said, I will just sort of recap things because he may have done this already, but I don't know that he has. So the Good Boy is a weird sort of blackly satirical, psychological, thriller, drama, comedy by Polish filmmaker Jan Kamasa, or Yan Kamasa, best known for helming the Oscar-nominated 2019 feature Corpus Christi. It's based on a script by Bartak Botosik and Lakash Khalid, which was originally written in Polish and set in Warsaw. As I said, Stephen Graham may have covered all this already. The producer is Josie Skolimovsky, who was. the legendary filmmaker behind things like The Shout and more recently EO. And he brought the script to Komasa while he was working on Corpus Christi, and they've changed

the location to Yorkshire and the language to English, to widen the potential audience. So, Antenbun is Tommy, this young drug addict thug, very much in the mold of Malcolm McDowell's Alex Delage in Clockwork Orange. Like Alex, he's a tear away, he wreaks havoc. Also, like Alex, he is captured and subjected to a brutal technique designed to reprogram him and turn him into a civilized member of society, one part of which is showing him videos of ultraviolence, as it turns out his own ultraviolence, that he has to watch and become ashamed of. Running this latter-day Ludovico technique are Chris and Catherine, who are a couple played by Stephen Graham, who you've just heard from, but from whom I have not yet heard,

and Andrew Reisbrough, who clearly have some terrible, ill-defined trauma in their past. And now they're dealing with it by kidnapping Tommy, tying him up in their basement, and either re-educating him or torturing him into realising the error of his ways. All this is happening in a remote house, where they also live with their young son,

who appears both devoted to and slightly terrified of his parents. So the film raises a number of questions, many of which have been asked before in films like Clockwork Orange, which does it in an equally satirical way. So is the incarceration and reprogramming of Tommy justified in inverted commas? What's the trauma that's in the parents' past that has led them to this drastic turn of events? How much is that trauma of their own making? How much of it is society? You're thinking Clockwork Orange about, you know, I was led astray by the... by the treachery of others.

Society is to blame. It is clearly suggested in various points in the film that their own actions have led to disaster in the past. And most importantly, is it better for Tommy to be a violent, free spirit than a subservient clockwork orange, the good boy of the title, an obedient dog that needs to be beaten,

you know, in order to make it obedient. Also, there's a question, and you and I've both seen the film of what exactly should one make of the ending, which is a real sort of dark twist of the knife because there are two possible ways of reading that ending and the only way I can think of reading it is that it is the blackest of black jokes,

which is that it is really, really dark and it has led you to a place of kind of complete nihilism. As jokes go, I'm not sure that works. No, no, exactly. But it is certainly dark. Certainly very, very dark. Although I can imagine somebody watching the film and coming to a different conclusion about it.

And I think that's kind of the point. So, look, obviously, despite the thematic comparison to Clockwork Orange, this isn't Clockwork Orange in the same way that Dead Man's Wire is not Dog Day Afternoon, but that is a very, very high bar. What it is, is, in my opinion, an impressively nasty black comedy about levels of control and coercion, about the damaging effects of trauma, and also about not just the wider role of society, but about the lure of cult indoctrination and Stockholm syndrome, which again is something that was also addressed to some extent in Dead Man's Wire. Now, like adolescence to which

obviously this has a genetic connection, it addresses that issue of what is wrong with the youth of today, although the register here is far more fantastically playful in as much as it is a fantasy. One isn't meant to believe that this is happening in the, but it becomes real world. think it's got a really icy element to it. I mean, there is a shard of steely cynicism beneath the kind of the stick-on wig of cultured civility, because obviously all the way through it, Stephen Graham is wearing this stick-on wig that makes him look like a kind of an ordinary suburban guy. And yet, as you will know, even just from the trailer, him thawking his kidnapped young man over-hitting him until he'd be a bad boy, bad boy, bad boy,

until he concede then good boy. I mean, there is something nealistic about, which it's almost got a kind of Michael Hanukkah edge to it, both in its cynicism and in its sort of innate suspicion of bourgeois values, beneath which there is a kind of brutality and rage and anger seething. So, I mean, I mean that as a compliment. I thought the performances were all very, very good. I like the fact that it's kind of out there.

And I personally, I kind of like the issues that he raised. What did you make of it, Simon? I, as soon as I realized it was going to be weird, I thought, okay, that's not my, it's not my favorite milieu. But the performances are so strong that it's difficult to tell yourself away from it, even though you might feel as though you want to because it is pretty dark in a lot of places. There are very few actors, just a small handful of actors. it's like a play in terms of chamber piece. Chamberpiece, yeah.

Andrew Riceborough is fantastic. The reason I asked Stephen about posture and actor is because you can tell so much. In fact, when we were talking about Hannibal Lecter and Antony Hopkins last week, I mentioned the way the first time we see him and he's standing in the cell. And he is, he hasn't said anything. He is just standing, but how much is portrayed. by that and the atmosphere of the film and everything that's gone before. And I'm just fascinated as to how Stephen can make himself appear feeble

when we know he's pretty hench. Yes. It's also, it's interesting that that the character that he plays has this raging violence beneath this apparently very, as I said before, this bourgeois civilised, talking very quietly, talking very quietly, talking very reasonably. There's an element of Kathy Bates in misery in there. You know, Kathy Bates said, I love, I just, I love your stuff and it's all going to go, but I am going to break your ankles now. And there is an element of that going on. And again, it is all satirical. It is all very much within

this very arch milieu. It is not meant to be taken as a realist piece in the same way. The Cotwark Orange isn't meant to be taken as a realist piece. It is meant to be taken as an, you know, as an arch satire on the questions that it raises. I mean, I do think it's very bleak. I do think that the conclusions that it comes to are very bleak. But I can imagine somebody watching it and taking a different conclusion away from it because that's it kind of very deliberately does that. It's a kind of Kubricky emotive.

It's the same thing with something like Strange Love. You can tell what the, you can tell what the attitude of the filmmaker is, but you can also tell the filmmaker's going, and what do you think? Go on, what do you think of that? I'm not quite sure what an alternative take is on that. Well, the alternative take might be, to play devil's advocate, the alternative take might be, well, you know, they've got a point. He is out of control and he does need to be taught to be a good boy.

Oh, I see from that point of you. Okay, well, if you see the good boy, it would be interested to know what you make of it. Correspondence at camadamadamaya.com, and I do think with that cast, it may well be that more people will go and see it because Stephen and Andrea, they're just like a hallmark of quality.

They are. Maybe they're tempted by that. You mentioned Andre Reisbrough. It is important because Andrea Reisbrough has almost the most difficult role, because for a long time, she doesn't speak at all. But what she has to do is convey the fact that something really terrible has happened in the past from which she has not recovered.

Be interested to expand this conversation. If you get to see it, let us know, correspondence at Kodommer.com, but you know what you need, Mark, if you've been to see an impressively near a nasty black comedy. It's some proper comedy, some light comedy, some proper comedy, which you'll find always hidden deep in the laughter lift. Excellent. I'm not sure about this first one, though. Anyway, hey Mark. Hey, Simon. Have you heard the one about Donald Trump having to leave office in utter disgrace, losing all his money in civil suits and having to go and become a lavatory cleaner in Rikers Island, jail.

Have you heard that one? I haven't. Go on. No, neither have I, but I simply love the way it starts. Hey! Mark, the good lady, yes, Sarabas sister, indoors came back from, well, obviously waitrose, on Saturday, with seven cases of Adnams Broadside, three of Northern Monk's faith, five boxes of kianti, five of risling, a bottle of whiskey and two loaves of bread. Are we expecting guests?

I asked, no, she replied. Then why did you buy so much bread? I said. Go on. Oh, that's the punchline. Yeah, because it's all the booze and two loaves of bread. I see. Why do you buy so much bread?

Okay. I'm sorry, I think you fluffed the delivery of that. No, then why did you buy so much bread? That's why I said. I think you thought you were going to make a joke about the loaves and fishes. I thought it was going to turn into a lice. That's not the joke. No, it isn't.

the joke, but I thought that's where I got. I thought that it was like an elevated joke that the light, it was going to be something about low, and then when it wasn't, when it was just like, why did you buy so much bread? That's like the old joke about did we come into, it's not my fault.

You're blaming. No, I just have higher expectations of you. I thought you were telling a cleverer joke than you were. No, has that ever happened? Ever? Actually,

we have one more. You say that. Yeah. I do have some bad news, Mark. Go on. I opened the... I don't have to work on this one. I opened the medicine cabinet this morning

and a bottle of megastrength omega-3 capsules fell on my head. Right. Ouch. Fortunately, though, my injuries were only super fish oil. Okay, so that's better. Now, to go back to the joke before that didn't work, it is also a version of the Castle Main Forex joke

in that advert in which they load up the back of a truck with like 50 crates of Castle Main 4X. And then the person says, you want something for the Shilers? And he says, get two bottles of sherry. And they put two bottles of sherry on the back. And then the axle of the van brakes. And the guy says,

I think you've overdone it with the sherry. I mean, it's that joke, isn't it? But you see, I thought... And then Jesus comes along and feeds everybody with the contents of the lorry. He says, look at this trick. Look at this trick. Look at this trick.

Bottle, water, water, bottle, bottle, wine. Yeah, I thought we were doing that. you've spoilt. I think you've spoilt the whole thing. It was perfectly fine and then it wasn't. So coming next, ready or not to Project Hail Mary as well after this. When WestJat first took flight in 1996, the vibes were a bit different. People thought denim on denim was peak fashion, inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked, the Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when WestJet welcomes you on board. Here's to West Jetting since 96. Travel back in

time with us and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years. Sabrina. Karen. I have been listening to a new show from The Binge called Fatal Fantasy. I am obsessed. Wait, I need to know more. Tell me. Tell me everything.

I will. It's very shocking. It's this like ultra weird crime story of a murder for hire plot that, yeah, wait for it, leverage the dynamics of the underworld and underworld being a medieval fantasy game. Wait, so it's live action roleplaying gone wrong? Horribly wrong. And you can binge all episodes now. Oh my God, that sounds so good.

I know what I'm doing on my drive home today. Search for Fatal Fantasy and subscribe to the binge podcast channel on Apple Podcasts or at getthebinge.com. And then once you're done, you can listen to one of the over 60 true crime and investigative podcasts a part of the channel while you wait for the next month's drop. I really need to know what happens. Selfishly, you do so that we can talk about it. So whenever you listen, search for Fatal Fantasy and hit subscribe to The Binge to get all episodes. All at once, add free. Okay, so with laughter ringing around the world after that extraordinary laughter lift,

let's elevate things even further with Ready or Not 2, here I come. Okay, so this is the sequel to Ready or Not, which I reviewed back in 2019, which obviously is a while ago. So I wanted to refresh myself about it, and I went back and I watched the review, and I referred to Ready or Not, the first one, as a black Corridi Homer, because I did that spoonerism thing

that I'm doing increasingly in my old age. So it was a black Corridi Homer, and you said... Corridi Homer, I like that. A black corotty homer, everyone knows exactly what you mean. Okay, but can you remember what you said about the words Corridi Homer back in 2019? No, I'm afraid I can't, but I'm sure it was great.

You said, Corridi Homer sounds like a TV star from the 1980s who had some hits but then blotted his copybook with that thing. And you were absolutely right. That is exactly what Corridi Homer sounds like. So that was directed by Matt, Betnelli, Olpin and Tanya Gillette and written by Guy Boussick and R Christopher Murray, who also are back for this series. So in the original, Samara weaving is Grace, bride of Alex from the Le Damas family, who turn out to be a satanic cult. And there are going to be plot spoilers in this, because if you're going to get to the sequel, you have to know what happened in the first one, okay? She goes to visit the family, you know, and we're told that the family are rich and weird. And their rich weirdness is that they play a deadly game of hide and seek. So it's like a society-like satire about, you know, the rich are not like you and me. And it's enjoyable splatter. And it ends with great. outliving the satanic family, all of whom explode before the family home itself bursts into flames. So this picks up from the end of the first film, with the blood-splattered bride coming out of the house

that is now on fire, stumbling onto the steps, lighting up a cigarette, and then collapsing as the emergency services arrive, because she's just gone through this terrible ordeal, albeit six years ago, but actually it's kind of last night. wakes up in hospital, handcuffed to a gurney, and about to be arrested on suspicion of having killed everybody and blown up the family home. Meanwhile, a creepy old rich guy played by, get this, David Cronenberg. Oh, exactly, sends out a message that the Le Demosse clan are gone, the bride is alive, the ball is in play. Now, this is a signal to all the other satanic clan members that the top seat of their council, which he holds, is now up for grabs. It is time for

another game, this time with several rival families competing to claim the crown by getting and besting the bride, who they get back, and her estranged sister, Faith, played by Catherine Newton, to whom she is handcuffed and who is used as collateral to force her to play again, despite the fact that she clearly doesn't want to. Here's a clip. But we could say, fire. It's okay. We can take her.

We've always had each other's back. Okay? We can do this. My school dentist had a drill that sounded like that. It was just, just terrifying. That's why I have a fear of dentists. Yeah. Well, there's no dentistry in this,

but there's a lot of everything else. So apparently, Ben Nellie Olpin and Gillette, who had gone on to Helm, scream and Scream 6, and I have to say this is way better than either of those two. Apparently, they were developing a sister story for Newton and Weaving, which they then retooled for this rebooted ready or not. So they took a script that they were working on for something else, which had this kind of sister thing at the beginning of it, and they then got it into this. So the new cast members also include Sarah Michelle Geller and Elijah Wood. Now, I enjoyed the original very much, and it didn't reinvent the wheel, but it was good fun.

This doesn't have the stripped down simplicity of the original. Strip down simplicity of the original is you go to the family's house. The rich are not like us and come midnight. They're going to play hide and seek and they play for keeps. This is more kind of complex. There are more elements in play. There are more things being brought in and more faces and names. So it doesn't have that absolute clarity of the original of the simple idea.

What it doesn't have, however, in that element, it does make up for in terms of Sam Ramey-esque slapstick splatter. As usual, I went to the BBC notes, and they say that it features scenes, featuring impalements, bloodshinings, shootings, repeated stabbings, and significant bloodshed. People spontaneously combusts, showering people and surroundings in blood and viscera. A man's corpse is seen oozing burns and melted skin

after being burnt alive in a washing machine, and characters are often covered in blood, and wearing blooded clothing. So it's nasty. But crucially, it's not nasty, nasty. It's nice, nasty. It may be a top end 15, but it is a 15 certificate. It is a big bucket of blood-drenched popcorn. At the center of it, you've got this sister act, which is very good. They're very good at doing the bickering sisters who are restrained, but they love each other, but they hate each other, but they love each other, but they hate each other, and they can work together, and they can't work together. Sarah Michelle Geller absolutely relishes the chance to do some, remember in cruel

intentions when she was doing that kind of, you know, the nasty arch, the wicked character, well, she's kind of back in that mold. And I saw this first thing on a Tuesday morning and I had a very, very long Sunday night into Monday and then all the Oscars stuff and blah-de-blah. I saw this first thing on a Tuesday morning. And I laughed out loud on several occasions, as did many other members of the audience. And I thought, yep, this is, this is good Friday night bucket of bloody popcorn fair because it, even if you haven't seen the original, you kind of figure it out from the beginning because the beginning sets it up pretty well. And then it just, it just romps along. And I enjoyed me again, it's not reinventing the wheel, but it's, it is, it is

honest in what it is doing and it does it rather well. And I had a really good time with it. It sounds as though Ready or Not Three, there I went or whatever it is, is going to be nailed on guarantee. Well, it's interesting because the end of the film is an end, but it does also, I can imagine, I can imagine sitting down with an executive for 20 minutes and then explaining that, okay, well, we are now in a very, very interesting position. So this is what happens in Ready or Not Three, you know, so. Yes. We'll just unpick that just a little bit. Yeah. And then we can carry on for as long as we want to.

Now, we've been asking for your what's on bits and pieces if you have a cinema or cinematic adjacent thing going on near you and you want to plug it, then tell us about it by setting a voice note to covenompsonance at cobedomode.com. For example, this one. Hi, Simon and Mark. This is Christian from the Ramsgate International Film and TV Festival. It's happening in Ramsgate, Ken.

It's going on for four days. It's got hundreds of films. across five venues where we're going to get loads of films across the globe as well as a great local focus. We think it's a great time for you and your audience to see. It happens around the Easter holidays. So what better time to do if you've got time off? Top enthusiastic question. Doing a very, yeah, giving an impression of someone who might be a podcast executive, I think, with that level of enthusiasm and encouragement. Absolutely on it. Absolutely hyped for it. So the information is at Ram's

Getsgate, IFTVFest.org, 26 to the 29th of March. Christian, good levels of encouragement there. You could also send us a video, by the way. So being an old audio person, I said voice note. But if you want to film yourself, then obviously we can include that because there's lots of filming going on. So Christian did that one. Chris has sent this one.

Hi, Mark and Simon. My name is Chris Ascombe. and I wanted to give a shout out about my new comic. Popcorn is a 44-page comic book collection of movie moments adapted to comic strip form. You'll find the likes of the Warriors, Jaws, Eraserhead, Planet of the Apes and many, many more. You can find out more details on my Etsy store by searching Chris Ascom. Thank you and love the show, Steve. All right, Chris, very good.

Very good. And those, those titles that you cited are all films that I like. So that's a good selection of movies. Okay, we've got lots of information for you. Here is Bella with the next one. Hi, Simon and Mark. This is Bella Madge, an autistic film critic. On the 12th of April at 7pm, me and my fellow neurodivergent co-hosts,

the Independence Chief Film Critic, Clarissa Lofrey, and curator and critic Lillian Crawford, are going to be hosting a virtual quiz. night in support of Autism Awareness Month. To get your email ticket, you just need to give any donation, and all of your donations will go to the National Autistic Society. The relevant link can be found on my Instagram, which is at Bella Watches Films, and there will be lots of fun and even some prizes.

Thank you for your time. Thank you, Bella. So it's 12th of April at 7pm, and it's at Bella Watches Films, all one word, if you want to have a look at her Instagram page. And we're not done yet because here comes Kirstie. Hi, Simon and Mark. this is Kirsty Pentecost from Oscar Bright Film Festival. Oscar Bright is the world's leading festival for films

made by or featuring learning disabled or autistic people. The 2026 Festival is screening more than 100 films between March 28th and April the 2nd, across five venues in Brighton. Find out more at oscarbrike.org. So that's oscarbright.org and can I just like to observe that Kirsty Pentecost is the greatest name. Imagine having Pentecost.

Pentecost, as you're saying, unless that's a showby's name, and Kirstie is all spangling and everything. But anyway, Kirsty Pentecost, you would, she's a star, isn't she? She's going to be in a movie or something. I think that sounds like a detective name. Yes. Kirsty Pentecost. The police can't solve the case, but Kirstie Pentecost can because she can see things that they can't see. Inidentally. How does she manage to do that? Well, just like a sort of, you know, gifts? Yeah, or maybe just like, you know, attention to detail that they miss or some kind of intuition, some hunch. Because the Pentecost thing, you know, there's a element of something.

Yeah, there's vibes. I think she's getting vibes. And from like a spiritual thing. And she goes into her room and she reads the room and she can tell that whether it's a happy room or an unhappy room. Yeah, yeah. And that way she can work out where the crime happened. How brilliant that those film festivals are happening and I love this section of the show.

There's very good. Public Service broadcasting once again. Thank you and send your voice notes, that's fine, or video clips where possible because we do like to see your cheeky little faces. We do. Okay, so last week, a little Ryan Gosling moment with Mark because I was eating pastries in Scandinavia.

But it was a fascinating conversation, really, really interesting. Everybody who meets Ryan Gosling does seem to come away thinking, what a top bloke. Yes. He is a very, very top bloke. And I started the interview by saying, this is Project Hail Mary, which is his new film, which is in Cinemas. I started it by saying, I just have to say, I absolutely loved it. It put a smile on my face. And particularly right now, that's a very good thing to do. So there's no element of surprise to this. I've already told Ryan Gosling that I like the movie very much. And I didn't say that to be nice to him. I ended up doing the interview partly because I enjoyed the film so much and partly because you were in Copenhagen.

So this is an adaptation of a 2021 novel by Martian author Andy Weir. Now, I know you have read Andy Weir's work, haven't you? Yes, and read this book and interviewed Andy as well. Okay. So this was apparently optioned at galley stage with Ryan Gosling in the driver's seat, not just as a star, but as somebody driving the project. And if you heard my interview, you'll know that this is very much. his kind of, you know, his labour of love.

And he described it as the greatest challenge of his career. I know that filmmakers often say, well, this movie is the greatest challenge of my career. I think Ryan Gosling did actually think that this genuinely was. So he plays Dr. Ryan and Grace, who is a character we meet, waking up from hyper sleep in a deep space vessel in which he is, A, the only survivor. and B has no memory of how he got there or who he is or what's going on. Gradually, through flashbacks, because the film plays out in two different time structures, the plot is revealed that he was a schoolteacher, enlisted by a space agency to help them address a potentially world-ending problem,

which is this mysterious phenomenon of a kind of interstellar cloud some entity that seems to be feeding on stars, and the star that is next on the menu is the sun. Crucially, he is not an astronaut. He is an astronaut, but under the guidance of Sandra Huller's Eva Stratt, and she's at one of these space agency boffins, he has somehow ended up as a crucial part of this mission

that at the beginning he has no knowledge of. So the film then cuts back and forth between the past, in which Grace and the strangely non-communicative Eva Stratt develop a relationship and work out what they're going to do about this potentially world-ending problem, and the present in which our central character meets and attempts to communicate with an alien life form who he names Rocky.

And he names him Rocky because he looks like a pile of rocks or a rock crab or a rock spider. So very early on in that relationship, they have to develop a way of communicating through language. And he starts to realize that certain gestures that Rocky is making, okay, they mean this thing, certain noises mean this thing. And he gets a laptop and he starts developing a translation thing. And then he says, okay, well, let's give the translation a voice. So let's give Rocky a voice.

Here is a clip. Why is a school teacher in space? Question. Like that voice. I can't hear it really. Scary. Let's try this. Oh, no, no, no, no, no need to even continue.

Good, nope. Why is a schoolteacher in space? What's so funny question? Why is a schoolteacher in space? I mean, it has charm, but no. Why is a school teacher in space? Oh, I don't think so. Why is a school teacher?

in space. That's not bad. I like. All right. And in answer to your question, I have no idea what I'm doing in space. I don't remember. I think that's fun.

I think it's a really sweet clip. And in a way, that clip is kind of a touchstone for what happens tonally for the rest of the film. So the film's directed by Phil Lord and Chris Miller, who are best known for things like, Cladley with a chance of meatballs in the Lego movie, obviously a lot of animation,

but also for direct. directing the 21 Jump Street movies. They have amazing visual panache. I saw Project Hellmary in IMAX. I knew nothing about it at all, except for the start time and the fact that it was on IMAX. And, you know, I was visually very, very impressed by it. But they also have a kind of track record in making movies about unlikely friendships,

which is what this is about. Indeed, I read an interview with them in which, and I said this to Ryan Gosw, They had described Project Hail Mary as a film that raises the question of, can men have friends, to which the answer is yes, but only if the fate of all humanity is at stake, which I thought was very good. So like The Martian, it's a very human tale of life in outer space, but for me, the greatest touchstone is Silent Running. Now, I know that I turn to Silent Running all the time, but it is a really influential movie. Silent Running is this film in which Bruce Stern's character is cast adrift in space with only these robot companions, these small little drone companions. That film was based, it was tagline the loneliest adventure of all. And crucially, in it, the loneliness is emphasized by the fact that the drones don't have faces, they don't have voices, they don't have eyes, they are, they're things onto which he has to project.

this relationship. And that thing about the loneliness of space is one of the real touchstones about why interstellar stories are interesting. And of course, Ryan Gosling has done this before in First Man, which really lent into the idea of loneliness. I remember when I was reviewing First Man, I compared it to the ninth configuration, the film in which the central astronaut characters asked, why won't you go to space? And he says, because if there is no God, then dying in space is really, really alone. And so you've got this thing here about this connection between this person who really, really needs to make a connection, but has found it very, very difficult to do so,

certainly in the scenes on earth. There's a lot of stuff going on there about how difficult it is to make friends and make connections. And also, the other interesting connection between this and Silent Running is that this doesn't actually make a lot of sense in some ways. When I was waiting to do the interview with Ryan Gosling,

Brian Cox was there in the waiting. room, right? Because he was going to do an interview. And I said, Brian, just tell me, how does the science of this stack up? And he said, well, you know, actually it's not bad. You know, it's not bad at all. Well, I'm sure that in terms of the sort of astrophysics of it, it isn't. But Ryan Gossin's character meets an alien character who doesn't have a face, has a voice that he can't understand and looks like a pile of rocks. And in almost no time at all, he develops software that allows them to talk to each other in a very, very kind of rom-com, odd couple, you know, back and forth way, which I don't believe for one minute would happen that

fast. But the point is, it doesn't matter. Silent running makes no sense. Why are they traveling, why don't they just put the domes into orbit and leave them there? Why is it that a botanist doesn't understand that the fact that there's no sunlight is the problem? Why is their gravity on the ship when even when he's doing the spacewalk, none of those things make any sense. And I remember asking Doug Trumbull about them. Is it a centrifuge? No, it's not in silent running. In silent running, it isn't.

In the case of... Oh, they didn't do that. No, in the case of this, it is a centrifuge. What I'm saying is, silent running makes no scientific sense, but it doesn't matter because it makes emotional sense. And Doug Trumbull agreed with that. In the case of this, there's a lot of it that does make scientific sense, but there's also a lot of it that doesn't, specifically,

the setting up the communication tool, but it doesn't matter, because it's not about that. What it is about is about the friendship. And in order for that friendship to be dramatized, they have to be able to talk in a way that has developed much faster than it would be actually possible to develop translation software. Okay? And I think that what's crucial, therefore,

is that it is a big spectacular science fiction movie, but it's really about friendship. And as Ryan Gosding said when he was doing the interview, that James Ortiz, who was the puppeteer, ended up doing the voice of Rocky because they were working together doing the rehearsal stuff because of the moving of the puppets,

and James Ortiz was giving him the lines, and they realized, okay, fine, actually, that is the relationship. And just as Bruce Dern made a very human connection with the drones, who, of course, in silent running, are actually played by actors. There are actors inside those suits,

like Cheryl Sparks, for example. So here, Ryan Gosling clearly developed a similar relationship with James Ortiz, and therefore there is real humour and real pathos and real humanity in those relationships, which is something that you wouldn't get if, for example, they'd done Rocky as a CG, if they'd done it, okay, we'll do it in post. In the meantime, you're just speaking to, again, as he said, a tennis ball on the end of a stick. The fact that it's puppetry is really, really important. Now, the source novel may be from the hard science fiction, movement as it's called in which, you know, everything is very, very scientific. But the film is pure fantasia, but that's fine because it's not about space. It's about matters that are much

more down to earth. You could say the same about interstellar, which only makes sense really as a sentimental romance rather than a space epic. And also that began life with Chris Nolan asking Hans Zimmer to write him a piece of music about a father's love for his child. And then having heard that, he said, okay, well, I might make the movie then because now I'm I have to because you've done that theme. The other thing it's important to say is that Sandra Huller is the most brilliant piece of casting. It is an absolutely fantastic piece of casting because she has exactly the right level of brittleness and awkwardness that establishes the thing about whilst out in space, he is finding a way of communicating with a pile of rocks.

Down on earth, he is finding a way of communicating with somebody who has absolutely no way of kind of connecting emotionally because they appear to be just so tied up in just the sheer mechanics and science and practicalities of, look, we have to do this, otherwise the whole world is going to end. So I really, really enjoyed the movie. I thought it was, yes, ridiculous, but emotionally, absolutely on point. And right now, a big blockbuster movie about beings from totally alien cultures coming together to work together to save the world from obliteration is something that I think we need. And a film like this that Heather, who works on this show, sent me a message after she'd seen it. She said, I skipped out of the screening. And that is

exactly what I did. Now, I haven't seen the film yet, but I certainly intend to, but I have read the book and I'm listening to the audiobook at the, moment. And the one thing that Andy Weir manages to do is because he writes in a funny style. Yes. He makes it. He makes you laugh. The science is somehow more understand. You mentioned Interstellar. When they were explaining the science, you've lost me. I'll just, I'll just go with it. But the way Andy Weir brings in a kind of a sarcastic, you know, Ryan Gosling character in just makes it more easy to consume. It's like bite-sized chunks, and I kind of get it. And the only point I would make, again, as I haven't seen the film, you were talking about the translation

software, the technological advances that mankind has to get through to send a spaceship to a different solar system with a completely new type of fuel called astrophage means that I would think the translation software is fine and because they've never made a spaceship like this. It's so astonishingly different that maybe finding the translation software is like a small thing. Okay. Okay. Well, I would agree. I, I, I, it was, it's the one thing that didn't ring true to me. It was, it just happened too fast. It just, we went from it's a rock tapping on a piece of glass to they are literally talking like the odd couple, but I don't care. So maybe because the book is like a 14, 15-hour trek.

By the time you get to that bit, you've been with it for eight hours. And so then if you're going, fine, okay, I'm up to speed. Sure. But the crucial thing, and I cannot overstate this, is it doesn't matter to me. It absolutely doesn't matter because it's not about that. Because he's just like, I don't care how you do it. And again, there's a conversation I had with Doug Trumbull in which I said, how come there is gravity when he's walking on the thing?

And Doug Trumbull said, he said, yeah, I thought about it. I thought about putting in a line about it. let's turn on the gravity machine, but then I just couldn't be bothered because it's not about that. And I think that this is the thing. This gets you in the fields. It's the emotional thing about it is what's important. It is the silent running, the loneliest journey of all. It is the ninth configuration. You know, why won't you go into space? It is the can men be, can men have friends? Yes, but only if the future of all humanity depends on it. And those things just speak to me. That's it for this week.

This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production of this week's team. Jen, Eric, Josh, Heather and Dom, the redactor is Simon Paul. If you're not following the pod already for heaven's sake, do so wherever you get your podcast. Come and join us on Patreon for all the fabulous and juicy stuff.

Mark, what is your film of the week? Project Hail Mary. We will be back next week also. There will be other takes dropping all over the place. I have to bestow years, ultra membership. Let's give it to the beer man. Rob White from the hop shed in Worcester.

Yeah, that was a great email. That was a great email. How accurate Mother's Pride actually is when it comes to brewing. Excellent. Rob, thank you very much indeed. If you want to get in touch with the show, you know where it is. Correspondence at covenomere.com. I want to tell you guys about a podcast that is near and dear to my heart,

and I cannot believe it already came out a year ago. And you can all go listen to it ad free by subscribing to the binge podcast channel. What podcast, Corinne? Tell us. Oh, it's called Blink Jig Handel's story. I created it about a man named Jake, who I met, who is the only survivor of a terminal brain illness brought on by heroin use. But there is a lot of mystery and medical malpractice and true crime elements that are very shocking and surprising and even some supernatural elements. So this is definitely an amazing story. It's very unique. Did such an incredible job telling the story and cheering it with the world. So if you have not listened to it yet, my goodness, where have you been? Because Blink is so freaking good. Thank you. Search for Blink wherever you listen. And subscribers to The Binge will get the entire season ad-free. Plus, you'll get exclusive access to the over 60 other true crime stories on The Binge podcast channel. Hit subscribe on Apple Podcasts or head to getthebinge.com.