Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Jesse Plemons and Yorgos Lanthimos, Kinds of Kindness, A Quiet Place: Day One, Horizon: An American Saga – Chapter 1

Episode Date: June 27, 2024

This week’s guests are the red-hot actor and director duo, Jesse Plemons and Yorgos Lanthimos. They’re on to talk about their film ‘Kinds of Kindness’, which is released on 28th June, among tons of other things. It’s one you won’t want to miss.  Mark also gives his take on the film, as well as reviewing ‘Horizon: An American Saga – Chapter 1’. This is Kevin Costner’s epic Western drama, which shows people drawn to the new west during the Civil War (the original one, not the Alex Garland one). Currently, the film is planned to have a whopping three sequels.  The big review of the week is ‘A Quiet Place: Day One’, the next instalment in Simon’s favourite movie series. This one takes us back to the origins of the saga, showing the moment that earth fell quiet. Did it make Mark and Simon hoot and holler with praise? Find out in the show.  Timecodes (relevant only for the Vanguard - who are also ad-free!):  07:28 - Horizon: An American Saga – Chapter 1 Review  16:08 - Box Office Top Ten  27:46 - Jesse Plemons and Yorgos Lanthimos interview  43:00 Kinds of Kindness Review  50:17 A Quiet Place: Day One Review    You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo   EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee!  A Sony Music Entertainment production.     Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts    To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail]  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Wish you were a better investor? Then stop wishing and start listening. With Dynamic Funds On The Money podcast series, you'll get timely insights to help you become a savvier investor. From retirement planning and investing to the latest market trends, the On The Money With Dynamic Funds podcast series covers it all. Get On The Money. Search On The Money With Dynamic Funds and follow today. I don't know what the conditions are like in your cubby hole, but I feel as though I'm

in hell here. It's not even 10 o'clock in the morning and already it feels like an inferno. How is it in your cubby hole? Will Barron Well, I don't think it's as bad as yours. It is a little bit scorchier, but I've closed the shutters. We have shutters. I've closed the shutters and that's kind of managing to keep everything a little bit cool. Are you upstairs in your house? Yeah, I'm on level one. Which, what was the level that I slept in? Level two.

Level two. Because level two, during the hottest hotness of last year. Oh my goodness me. It was really, I lost weight. Yeah, well it's the old hot air rises thing, you know, so it's like, what do you do? And you know, if we could have air conditioning for like three days a year, that would be a very wise investment, but it just isn't worth it, is it? Well, no, it was, I mean, I do, I will always have fond memories of staying in your upstairs

attic, but there was a point in fact in which the good ladies around her said, I don't know whether you'll survive a night in that room. Yes, there was that. But you did. I did. Many people haven't, of course. That's right. I was pushing the corpses out of the way to the side of the room. There were many bodies in the back garden. We bought an air conditioning unit once many, many years ago when one of the kids had very

bad eczema and it was a really terrible two, three week period of heat. We just couldn't get any respite at all. Then we found this, they're absolutely vast, like the size of a car. You get it and you put it in. That one room for the three weeks, you tend to lose all sense of proportion, but if you've got really bad all over eczema, if you can find some kind of cool in the house, it was like a lifesaver. Basically everybody crowded into this very small room just to get some kind of respite. I'd just like to say that even if you didn't have it, it was absolutely because there was

a piece of equipment in that room that was white and had some slats. I figured when I went up to it, I said, oh, there's something there. It's like an air conditioning, but I couldn't figure out how to plug it in. I couldn't figure out how to turn it on. Then I made it do something, but it just made a loud buzzing noise. It was was like, now I'm, now I'm, it's really noisy. I think that was a heater. That's what it was. That's what it was. That made a lot of sense. No wonder you didn't survive the night because it was 43 degrees plus you had a heater on. Anyway, here we are doing another fabulous show. What are you going to be reviewing a little later on?

Where's Pack Show, Simon? We have reviews of A Quiet Place Day One, which is the prequel to The Quiet Place, although the second Quiet Place had a bit of a prequel in it. Horizon, an American saga, Chapter One. This is the first of Kevin Costner's mammoth epic Western saga. There's a lot of punctuation here. There is a lot of punctuation going on in that. And Kinds of Kindness, the new film by Yorgos Lanthimos with our very special guests. Who is Yorgos Lanthimos and his star Jesse Plemons, and you'll be hearing from them later.

In our premium bonus section, what are you going to be rabbiting on about? A review of a new film called Rose and also a reissue of Network from 1976, which is one of my favourite depictions of the American media in film. Mason- Our recommendation feature TV movie of the week, the weekend watchlist, we cannot list that kind of thing. Kinds of Kindness, which you've mentioned. So, we're looking for one frame back, we're looking at anthology movies. Add free episodes of Ben Baby Smith and Nemoans, Shrink the Box. Plus we answer your film and on-film related queries and the odd quandary in questions, shmestchens. Is a quandary the same as a query, really?

Is there a difference? A query is an inquiry and a quandary is something you get stuck in like a quagmire, isn't it? Isn't it? Well, we'll find out. Anyway, you can get all of this via Apple Podcasts or go to extratakes.com for non-fruit related devices. And if you're already a Vanguardista as always, we salute you. When you slowed that down, that's why that was out of sync, because you did it in a weird tempo. It was like you suddenly did a rallentando. We don't usually do it at that tempo. So I was a what?

A rallentando. We don't usually do it at that tempo. I was at what? A rallentando. What does that mean? At the end of a piece of music when it's like, you know, the way every Dodge Brothers song finishes. Oh, right. So I was just being skiffle. That's what I was. Richard Leatherdale from Stroud, I hope you, the magnificent production crew and the inimitable redactoring chief Royal, blah, blah, blah. Your recent chat about rice pudding in Finland have some memories to resurface for me. Back in 2007, I found myself though accidentally being half Finnish doing my national service in the Finnish army.

I mean, you say you're accidentally half Finnish. We're all accidentally whatever nationality we are, really. I was a bazooka man or anti-tank specialist, if you prefer, in an infantry unit based on an island in Helsinki. Indeed, the city centre with its beautiful cathedral were visible from the beaches of the island tantalising and yet unreachable at a time when literally anything seemed preferable to being in the Finnish army. One of the bright spots was every Sunday, the usual breakfast porridge was replaced by a rather tasty rice porridge. It wasn't porridge, it wasn't pudding, but somewhere in between, and most welcome it was too, it tasted just like nosh mummo.

The nosh mummo used to make, I think mummo is Finnish for grandma. Oh, I see. I thought it was a dish called nosh mummo. That's actually not a bad name for our restaurant when we open make, I think Mummo is finished for grandma. Oh, I see. I thought it was a dish called Nosh Mummo. That's actually not a bad name for our restaurant when we open that, I think. Richard says, I can attest firsthand to the rather aggressive tactics of the mosquitoes as experienced by Mark. Yeah, wow. You have my sympathies. On one camp in the Helsinki, on Vyron, as they say in Finland,

I found that some rather nippy little fellow of the mosquito species had managed to bite me in a rather sensitive area. After a very uncomfortable day when it probably looked I was just punching myself in the crotch, because probably I was, I asked to see a medic. A glimmer of hope had flickered that I might get sent back to base, is like mash. Medivac from the battlefield to spend the last few days of the camp relaxing in the nearly deserted barracks. I managed to wangle a lift to see the medics, who after a cursory and I have to say rather reluctant inspection, decided that sadly for me, I was fit for service and sent back to my unit with some cream.

Imagine my surprise when returning to the lads. I found them all packing up going home. It turned out somebody had left a blank off from their chamber, not a euphemism, whilst nobody had their protective earbuds in. So the whole troop were off base, back to have their hearing checked, apart from me. Because I was away at the medic trying to get sent back to base, I'd missed the action. So now, once they went home to get some R&R, I had to stay in the bug laden forest on my own. I think there's a lesson there for you, Richard. Anyway, he says, That is definitely an episode of MASH, you're quite right.

Yeah. Taking these tongue down with the Nazis, although I acknowledged that they were on the same side as Finland during some of the war and so on. Look, it gets complicated. Half Finnish, Richard Leatherdale, he's now in Stroud. Thank you very much. What is out? Tell us something we can go and see. Okay. Horizon, an American story, chapter one. So this is Kevin Costner's third Western directorial outing after Dances with Wolves and Open Range, fourth if you count the postman post-apocalyptic part as a Western, which it kind of is and it kind of isn't. This is the first of a planned series of epic westerns, either three or four depending on

what day of the week it is, directed, co-written, produced by and starring La Costna. Apparently the movie's in total span 12 years pre and post Civil War. If Dances with Wolves, if you remember when Kevin Costner was making Dances with Wolves, it was dubbed Kevin's Gate because everyone thought it was going to flop and Heaven's Gate was a huge flop. Well, this is Kevin's Gates or Kevin's Many Gates because there are many parts. Part one premiered at Cannes in May. Part two opens, well, in the US, at least in August. Other episodes to follow as and when. The project's been going for decades, apparently costing the first pitch to Disney back 20 years ago. So it's co-written by John Baird. Chapter one, a three-way story plays out across Montana, Wyoming, Kansas with three plot strands

that by the end of the film have yet to intersect. Okay? So we open with settlers who are measuring up land in the San Pedro Valley, 1859, 1860. Apache raids hinder the plans to build the town of Horizon and leave Sienna Miller's Francis widowed and under the care of Sam Worthington's lieutenant. They send off a raiding party with a young survivor of the raid to go in search of scalps, any scalps. Meanwhile, the Apache are arguing about how they should deal with the incomeors, with the settlers, should they try and scare them or should they just accept they can't do anything about it. After about an hour, Kevin Costner turns up in another strand and his strand is that he is a horse tramp, a gunslinging horse tramp called Hayes Ellison, who becomes the guardian, trying to keep up with this, of Mary Gold, who is half his age, a sex worker, who has the care

of a child of a friend of hers who has been chased by some brothers for something that happened earlier on. Anyway, now Kevin Costner and her and the child are on the run from the brothers. Here's his clip. walking up to get the mail for all that bothered them. Now they had a second loss and they're this much farther out of their way. Can't imagine there'll be any kinder to you this time. So they'll just kill me then? Right out in front of everyone? No, they'll probably take you somewhere quiet, won't they? And then there's a third story in which you have

a wagon train led by Luke Wilson traveling through Kansas and included in the troop are two posh Brits who don't pull their weight and generally behave as if they stepped off the fast. So, hello, we're from whatever it is. Anyway, so there's a lot of- They'll be bad characters. They'll be the baddies then for sure. Well, they are already the baddies. They are already the people who, when other people are trying to fix the wagons, they're just sitting around. They're washing in the drinking water because they're poshoes. Anyway, then you get a lot of set up. You get a fair amount of incident. An entire town is built and burned to the ground and you get a whole bunch of characters who are

introduced, but by the end of it, you still feel like you're waiting for the story to start. Knowing that there are other episodes, this is just the setup. There was a famous review of Samuel Beckett's Waiting for Godot, which said it's a play in which nothing happens twice. This is a film in which nothing happens, or at least nothing happens yet, three times. I mean, yes, there are individually well-mounted set pieces. Yes, there are some arresting visuals because the landscape is the landscape. And honestly, the idea of an epic sweeping Western is alluring.

I was up for that. But I do feel like if we're going to be in the cinema for three hours with these locations, you need to actually get the story going. You need to start tying the strands together. You need to not just spend three hours showing us what you might be doing in the next couple of episodes. Then here's the problem. It's hard not to avoid the conclusion that although this is in the cinema, and because

Kevin Costner was doing Yellowstone, then there was a falling out with or not falling out with, no one's quite sure, with Yellowstone. Moving away from that, he put a message on Instagram, said, see you in the cinema. So he's going off to do this. Okay. But although these are movies, it feels like an extended television program. For a start, it's shot in 185, which is weird because Dances and Postman were both 239, Open Range, open range was two, three, four. You've got the big, the widescreen thing. Why do one eight five? Well, okay. Maybe, maybe for IMAX or maybe because one eight five is very close to the, to the shape

of a widescreen television, which is, you know, one seven seven, one seven eight. Also at the end, and I'm not making this up at the end of the first episode, there is a montage of stuff that I presume is going to happen in the second episode. So you just suddenly get this thing where suddenly there are all these scenes with people you don't know, people you haven't seen before, like, oh, there's going to be a shooter. There's a bit when he's on a horse and he turns around and he shoots three, is that the three brothers who are following him? It's like, you know, coming next week or later on in the series. It's almost like you spend three hours watching establishment of nothing happening and then suddenly in the last two minutes you get this jumble of

stuff that might happen in the next episode. Here's my feeling about it. Firstly, I think it's a bizarre decision to have gone this long without moving the point. This is the same length as Dances with Wolves, which is the entire story from beginning to end. This is only 25 minutes shorter than the long version of Heaven's Gate. And yet the plot hasn't really started. I doubt that this is going to draw audiences in big numbers. I can't imagine

that they're going to get four full feature episodes out of this and still find an audience. It is hard not to think, okay, this is really a cinema presentation of something that maybe when it's on television as a mini series, it will kind of be. Although, you know, you said, there was somebody said to you about a series, well, when you get to series three, it really kicks in. And you thought. Yeah, that was shits creek. Yeah, fine.

And you thought, no, I'm sorry, I'm not going through two in order to start appreciating it at three. It's just so weird that the amount of time it's taken to get so very, very little actually done in terms of narrative. I think it's a huge ask of the audience. I don't think it's going to find an audience. I would be surprised if we saw more than the second episode in the cinema. I mean, I don't know.

Like I said, everyone said Dances with Rules was going to tank and then of course it became a huge Oscar-winning hit. This isn't going to happen with this. It never giddy-ups. It just sits there and goes. Unless there's a big American audience who's watched Yellowstone over its many, many series and prequels and so on and thought, well, no, I'll go with this. Will Barron Yellowstone is a huge hit, but I presume that a large number of those people will think, well, it will come to streaming eventually. Killers of the Flower Moon actually looked more like a movie than this because Killers

of the Flower Moon has got a beginning, a middle, and an end. This has got a beginning, a beginning, a beginning, and then a trailer of stuff that's coming in the next one. That sounds a trial. But anyway, once you've seen it, correspondence at Codemayor.com. Still to come, Mark. Still to come reviews of the new Yorgos Lanthimos film with our very, very special guests. Who are indeed Yorgos Lanthimos and Jesse Plemons, plus a review of A Quiet Place Day. Day 1. Well now, this episode is brought to you by Mubi, a curated streaming service dedicated

to elevating great cinema. Mubi is the place to discover ambitious films by visionary filmmakers, all carefully handpicked by real people who really know movies. Mark, what's coming up in July on Mubi? Well, Mubi have a new series dedicated to one of our favourite actors, Lea Sadoo. It's streaming on Mubi UK from July the 12th. You can dive into some great performances by her. They've got Crimes of the Future, The Feature from David Cronenberg from 2022. That's streaming on Mubi UK from July the 12th. The Beast, the Bertram Bonnello film in which she co-stars with gorgeous George Mackay, which as you know, I absolutely loved,

came out of reeling. That's streaming on Mubi UK from July 19th. Mason- Any other favourites in there of ours? Jason- Yes, there's Hall by Luna Carmoone, who when we reviewed this when it came out, I said I think she is a brilliant new screen talent with great performances, really worth seeing. Mason- Two of our films of the week there. You can try Mubi free for 30 days at mubi.com slash KermodeMeo at m-u-b-i dot com slash KermodeMeo for a whole month of great cinema for free. What do we have here? Oh, it's an advertisement from Better Help Therapy. That's because KermodeMeo's take where I sometimes step into Mark's patent leather wingtip shoes, it's brought to you by better help. You know, I'm no stranger to stress and anxiety and for me sometimes

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at betterhelp.com slash curmode. That's better, h-e-l-p dot com slash curmode. Here we go with the box office top ten. Yes, the box office top 10. Comscore, they're the people that have done all this. They take all the responsibility. Green Border is at number 17. Which I thought was a very powerful film from Anisha Holland. It's a very distressing watch, but it's about a very difficult subject. I said very powerful. Olly Freeman says the film was brilliant. Level-eyed, humane, yet unsentimental. Yeah, that's bang on.

Yes, I think that's good. Up with the helpers and down with the usual stuff. Number 10, Furiosa, a Mad Max saga. I think we have established that you and I both thought this was a really solid piece of entertainment and we can't quite understand why some people are sniffy about it. Number 9, Something in the water. It's always hard to make a shark movie since Stevens Spielberg did it. But I think actually, when you consider this is a fairly low budget affair and it's really more about the group of friends who are sort of on a hen party who then end up in the water, I think it works well. It's

got a good score, very, very good score. Mason- Number eight here, seven in America, is the exorcism. Greer- Just unforgivable. Mason- Go on. Greer- Okay. St. Jimmy on our YouTube channel, the stupidest part of the film is that each day, the possession of Crowe's character got worse and more destructive, but he kept getting up every morning and going to work. All in the game. It says, Russell Crowe went from having one of the best actor runs of the last 30 years, LA Confidential, The Insider, Gladiator, Master and Commander, 310 to Yuma, to currently having one of the worst.

It's an absolute car crash. All you need to know is this was shot in 2019, shut down due to COVID, pretty much abandoned, resurrected in the wake of the Pope's exorcist, resurrected as a straight-to-streaming project. I know that Inside Out 2 has done brilliantly well, but there is a dearth of movies around that are doing equal business. So they thought, well, let's stick it in the cinema and see whether it makes some money. It's absolute rubbish and it's kind of a shame that it's Joshua John Miller, who's Jason Miller's son, because that sounded like it was interesting, but it's just a car crash of a film. It does not deserve your attention. If it's at number seven.

Better idea than it is a film, but it is a good idea. Garfield movie at six. Not even a good idea, but it took a good idea. Garfield movie at six. Not even a good idea, but you know, but it took a ton of money. Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes is at number five, number four in the States. Yeah, well, it's done very well. And it does appear that my reservations about the slowness of the first hour are not shared by a huge number of the fans. So you know, maybe I'm wrong.

Well, according to Child 2, I am wrong. You're entry at four, you know, maybe I'm wrong. Well, I mean, according to Child 2, I am wrong. You're entry at four, right here, right now. So, this I haven't seen. This is an American concert film of the Swedish rock band Ghost. Are you familiar with the Swedish rock band Ghost? No, we don't play a lot of them on Greatest Hits because they didn't really have any hits back in the day. Right. Okay. Well, now's a chance to catch up with them,

Simon. Do you think? No. Number three, here two in the States, Bad Boys, Right or Die. I mean, nobody asked for another Bad Boys film except for all the financiers and it turns out a huge amount of the audience. So it's out there making money like it's going out of business. In which case it should be celebrated, given how rubbish things are in general. If there's a film that's packing them in for whatever reason, then well done it. But what should be celebrated more is what's at number two. Now number two is bike riders. The bike riders is number three in America.

It's a couple of emails here. Jackie says, one of my CGBs, my cinema going buddies, and I spent a sunny Saturday night in our usual seats, the middle sofa at the back, known as the throne, at the Exeter Picture House watching the bike riders. Austin Butler is a, in capital letters, proper film star. He has such an aura about him, saying so few words, but saying everything with his eyes. Tom Hardy is menacing even when he isn't, demanding your attention when he's on the screen. Jodie Comer, however, is the real star of the film. You warm to her instantly. Her constant bubbling dialogue

in a perfect Chicago drawl ensures that she is the heart of the film. There was some entirely justified code breaking, a collectible audible wince when that was inflicted on that particular character, and an intake of breath when that happened to a different character. Bike Riders is a beautifully shot film, gorgeous scenery, and a thoroughly entertaining way to spend a couple of hours. Jacob Sarkeesian. This type of hyper masculine subject matter isn't usually my cup of tea, but I thought the Bike Riders was just exquisite. It was beautifully shot with some of the best cinematographer of the year. I guess that's cinematography of the year. And I thought the narrative structure made for a brilliant documentary like feel. Jodie Comer, as always, was brilliant and

Austin Butler was brilliant to look at and provided and proved he is an absolute movie star. The film, however, belonged to Tom Hardy. I thought it was his best ever performance and as someone who writes for awards site Gold Derby, I hope he gets nominated for the best supporting actor Oscar. He was magnetic. What an utter joy it was to be so enthralled by this film that I've not stopped recommending it to everyone I know ever since. Geoff Nichols created a very particular world in this film and it was a joy to spend time in whilst these bikers were portrayed as family rather than thugs, which they are often depicted as in most films. I mean, there are some thuggish elements as well. Anyway, the bikers isn't number two. Bike riders is number two. It's really good to hear that response because when I reviewed it last week, what I said

was look, I really liked it. But then I was the person who went to see Cathy Bigelow's The Loveless on a late night double bill with a razor head. I think that the audience for this is going to be cult movie fans. Actually, it sounds to me from those emails like it is finding a wider audience than that. I think that's really encouraging because if a film like The Bike Riders can find a more mainstream audience than people at the Phoenix at 11.30 on a Friday or people at the Scarlet at one o'clock, then that's a great thing.

The touch points are William Freakins cruising, Catherine Bigelow's Loveless. Those are the movies that it relates to. It's just brilliant to hear people responding to it that well. Number one in the UK, number one in the States, and looking at the figures, it's very number one. Inside Out 2. Joanna Kroome says, Yesterday was a major parenting milestone. I took our four-year-old to the cinema for the first time. Inside Out 2 felt like a good choice, as she loves the first film. Our local cinema had a mum and baby showing, so I could bring the baby too, and the more

relaxed atmosphere would mean the four-year-old's inevitable questions about why this was happening and what was going on wouldn't disturb other cinema goers. My parenting isn't up to enforcing the code of conduct on a four-year-old at her first cinema trip. Whilst the four-year-old may not remember her first cinema trip, I wouldn't be so sure about that. It is a memory I will cherish," says Joanna, cuddling up in the reclining cinema chairs, talking about how it's okay to be worried about things, but it's good how Riley's emotions

work out how to not let, beg your pardon, anxiety take over. I didn't need to be at altitude for the lacrimosity to build. The baby even stayed mostly quiet too. Inside out too, number one. I mean, fantastic that a film has found it's hit such a nerve with audiences. This is now the second or third week that we've had these kinds of responses from people saying that they have had really profound emotional responses to it. They've found that it's spoken to them and that it's

bonded them with it. It's doing all the things that cinema is meant to do. So again, interesting because I said my concern was that maybe because it was dealing with adolescence that some of the metaphors aren't as simple as they are, aren't as clear cut as they are in the first film. No one seems to be having a problem with that. People seem to be just understanding the film on a gut level, on a gut level. And that speaks really highly of it. That people are just, it's just getting right into them. And good for it. I mean, hooray, a bona fide hit. As we're talking about the way the body works, I think that's interesting. When you're talking about a film like Inside Out 2 working on a gut level, what is that? That's a different part of the brain, isn't it? Because we don't think with our gut, we think with our brain.

What I mean by that is there are some movies that you could enjoy because you're being intellectually stimulated or titillated by them, or you're intrigued, or you're trying to figure out who did what and like a whodunit or something. There are other things that just hit you on a gut level. When I say gut level, I often think of it being like a sucker punch thing. You feel it, you don't think it, you just experience it. For me, the best horror does that and a good weepy does that. It hits you on it. I think probably in older parlance, gut level is somehow thought of as a lesser art form. Yet, I just don't understand that at all. I think if something just bypasses your brain and just goes straight to your body, to your heart, to your soul, I think

that's a very powerful thing. Mason- And probably in the film's favour, the fact that the first movie is on Disney+, therefore there are lots of people who can see that as preparation for Inside Out 2. And also, why would you not just watch Inside Out over and over again, whether there was a sequel in the cinema or not? Anyways, we said it's very number one and clearly it's going to be one of the hits of the year. Anyways, the ads in a moment, Mark. But first, I think with a sense of gay abandon, we should step with hope in our hearts into our very entertaining laughter lift.

I love this music. I listen to this all night. Mark, I was in a bit of a daze this morning in the shower and I accidentally used some leftover dog shampoo. It wasn't too bad though. I felt like such a good boy. Good boy, good boy, good boy, good boy. Good boy, Simon. Have you noticed how expensive things are? Yes.

When I was a nipper, you could go down the corner shop, down in Croydon, 50p, 50p in your hand, you get a Whizzer and chips, a Beano, a packet of white mice, a packet of Fizz Whiz, some rainbow drops, a packet of candy stick cigarettes, some aniseed twists, a bag of gummy bears and a handful of Palmer Violets. Nowadays, there's CCTV everywhere. However, I had some old friends over to stay at the weekend. Didn't go particularly well. I've known the bloke for years.

Suddenly out of nowhere he says, Simon, you know you really make people uncomfortable by violating their personal space, which I thought was a hurtful thing to say. Completely ruined our bath. Anyway, Mark, very good. What's to come? This is the first time I've actually been laughing at the end of a Laugh-A-Lift. Very good. What's to come? This is the first time I've actually been laughing at the end of a Laugh-A-Liff. We have reviews of Quiet Place Day 1 and before that, Kind of Kindness with our special guests.

Jesse, Yessie. Jorgos and Jesse. Jesse and Jorgos. Them. The star and the director of that movie on the way. Whatever they call it. Paton, it's happening. You're finally being recognized for being very online.

It's about damn time. I mean, it's hard work being this opinionated. And correct. You're such a Leo. All time. So if you're looking for a home for your worst opinions, if you're a hater first and a lover of pop culture second, then join me, Hunter Harris, and me, Peyton Dix, the host of Wanderys newest podcast, Let Me Say This.

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And don't forget in-stock promise, where you can count on great offers being in-stock or get a rain check. Discover more value than ever at Loblaws, in-store and online. Conditions apply. See in store for details. Okay, so this week's guests are Jesse Plemons and Yorgos Lanthimos, who star and direct in Kinds of Kindness in cinemas Friday, June 28th.

We caught up with Jesse and Yorgos while they were in London, a chat with them, but first a clip from the movie. Good afternoon Robert. Don't just stand there, sit down. Were you waiting long? No, 15 minutes or so. Your hair's nice like that. Don't get it cut, let it grow a little longer. And you've lost more weight I think.

Skinny men are the most ridiculous thing there is. We've gone over this before. You must put on a few pounds. I told you that last time. But I have. You most certainly have not. You're even skinnier now. We'll have to take another look at your eating plan for the week. And that is a clip from Kinds of Kindness. I'm delighted to say I've been joined by its director, co-writer, Jorgos Landithimos. And one of it stars Jesse Plemons. Jesse and Jorgos, hello, how are you? Hi.

Hi, we're good. Jesse, it looks as though you're outdoors somewhere. Is that right? I'm at it. Yeah, I'm here outside of London with my family, so this is the quietest spot. Okay, well, it's nice to speak to you. Jorgos, where do we find you today? Also in London. Coincidence. Or is it? All right, well, you're in an attic somewhere.

Anyway, we appreciate you both spending some time with us. Jorgos, I understand making this movie took many years to complete. I guess most movies do. Can you tell us what the starting point was for this film? Well, I mean, first of all, I work a lot with the filmist Filippo that we wrote the script together and we're also very good friends. So whenever we finish something, we always discuss about starting something new. So I think around the time of the killing of a secret deer, after we finished that film, started just exchanging ideas of what would be the next thing.

I remember I had read recently Caligula by Albert Camus. I started having these thoughts about one man's power over so many people, how he controls everybody's lives, and what would that mean, you know, to see it in a very personal level. And, you know, we started writing the first story of this triptych. And then, because as you mentioned, it took a lot of years just because, you know, there were other projects that we're making,

both myself and Efthimis, and we would write a little bit, we would go do other things, we would come back to the script. I think when the next time we came back to it, we just felt like we wanted to do something different with the form as well that we had done in the past, the two of us, so we just decided that it would be an interesting idea

to make a film that has more than one story. And then we just started, you know, writing down our other ideas and choosing the ones that we felt made sense to include, you know, with the first one that we started writing. Was it always a triptych? Was it always three or were there more at one stage? Well, we decided on three as a, you know, sensible number. But of course, the ideas that we exchanged were, you know, way more than that. We made actually a list of like 10, 12 ideas or something, in order to choose from that and choose the two that we were going to go with, along with the

first one. Yeah. Jesse, what was it like when you first got the script? What did you think? I mean, I've said before, just the fact that I was receiving a new script from the man was exciting in itself. I knew I was going to do the film no matter what. And I devoured the script and felt like I'd been taken on a crazy ride and felt like my insides and my emotions had been sort of just run through the wringer and got to the end and felt like what just happened to me. I knew I was going to be playing the three different parts and then we spoke not too long thereafter and that was kind of that. Yeah, but it was very exciting. Mason- It sounds as though, from an actor's point of view, getting a script from Yorgos Lanthimos

is like a standalone experience. There's nothing else quite like it, would that be right? Yorgos- Completely, yeah. And that's kind of always, you don't get these opportunities too often and as an actor you're always looking for something different. Then you get this and it's most definitely that. But the thing I really loved about it is that as surreal and dreamlike and nightmarish as it is, it felt very human and immediately got inside me in a way that I just could not stop thinking about it.

It was really strange to be the only one that I know that had read this script. I had no one to really talk to. I got to talk to Yorgos a little bit about it. He told me what he just told you about Caligula being kind of the seed. And so yeah, it was a funny couple of months, like I said, just having this script inside me

and not really having anywhere to put it. But yeah, it's very exciting. Jorgos, you must be used now to hearing actors talk the way Jesse is talking. But when they get one of your scripts, first of all, as Jesse just said, doesn't really matter what's in it, he's gonna do it anyway. But there's something that's quite disturbing

about what you're sending them. You must be aware of that. Well, first of all, I think I target the actors so I don't get too many, you know, rejection. But I don't know... disturbing. I hope like evocative or... I mean, I'm sure some of it is disturbing, but it's not, I don't think the entirety,

and I hope that the entirety is not just characterized by disturbing. I think there's... You know, what we try to do is quite complex and to try and balance this particular tone between yes, dark, disturbing, but also funny and ridiculous and trying not to take ourselves too seriously. There's a lot of stuff.

So I hope that they appreciate that and they're excited to just be part of this world. To add to that, yes, there are disturbing elements, but because his scripts, not to speak for him, seem to come out of this place that is rooted in some unconscious sort of foundation where foundation where, you know, it feels cohesive, but it doesn't necessarily feel like it's coming from an intellectual or analytical place. In reading it and working on it, it inevitably taps into your own unconscious and which I think is also the goal for the audience, you know? And so, yes, it's, it's extremely evocative.

And if the fun of it is to approach it in the same way that he approaches it, where you're not, you're not necessarily trying to overanalyze it, but just allow yourself to be moved in any direction that it moves you in. And so that's the fun and the neat part of it. Are your three characters connected or not, Jesse? The whole film, all three feel connected in some thematic and tonal way. I think in getting ready and rehearsing and preparing, I wasn't focused too much on what that thread would be. As Yorgos has said,

just by the fact that the same actors will be playing different parts in each of them, it inherently connects them in some way already. So, yeah, it wasn't too much of a thought. I mean, in the beginning, just as most humans tend to do, there is some instinct to try and solve or connect the dots. And then slowly, you kind of just follow your instincts and see where

it goes. And yeah, I do think we kind of, I treated them as three different realms. The three stories, Jorgos, they are labeled as we see them, the death of RMF, RMF is flying, RMF eats a sandwich. Could we see them in a different order? I guess. I mean, it would change the balance that we thought was appropriate for the triptych. Again, it's not very easy to explain why it works this way, because it's not like a linear kind of storytelling reason why they appear in this order. But it's actually the order that we had them in the script.

And you know, it's just the order we shot them and the order that they ended up being you know, in the film. And it's again, it's things like pace and tone and duration and volume of things. And it's just like so many elements that make you decide why they go into this. It's like a short story collection. The reason why do you decide to, or a photography book, like it's a standard example. Yeah, or music, you know, it's like, you're just trying to create this rhythm and pace and, you know, contradiction between parts. And so it's like a composition of a different type than the actual narrative linear storytelling, putting the three stories

together. Jorgos, are there any acts of kindness in this film? Because kindness is in the title. It doesn't seem to have much kindness in it. Well, I mean, it depends. You have to really look for it. I think people are. There's a lot of sacrifice. I think that's the kindness. There's people being sacrificed for other people, for love, for, you know, the greater good. You know, in the last story, someone sacrifices themselves for, in order to, you know, for other people to find their calling in personal relationships. In a relationship, people are sacrificed. A man, I think, is sacrificed in the first one for someone to keep, you know, living his life.

I think, you know, there's a lot of sacrifice in the film. And just to, like, add that to the whole conversation, the title, Kind of Kindness, why I, you know, how I ended up using that title is kind of the same way with the actors, is that, you know, kind has more than one meaning. I like the fact that with the actors is that, you know, kind has more than one meaning. I like the fact that it's a homonym. So you can, you know, you can look at it at different, you know, from different perspectives, what kindness is or what kind is. So, yeah, it's about

like, you know, looking deeper into all of these things and allowing yourself to see things from a different perspective. Mason Hickman And just on the actors that you target, Jorgos, what are you looking for? It sounds to me as though there is a certain kind of fearlessness that you need from everybody. Would that be right? What are you looking for in the people you go after here? Yeah, I think eventually that's a very, very important part. Yeah, they need to be open.

They need to be open to try different things. I think you have to understand that the reason that they're interested is because the material or your work actually affects them and they truly appreciate it instead of just seeing it as another job that they're going to do. And it's very important for me, I've said, for them to be just good people and be able to get along and be in it for achieving something together instead of everyone being stand alone, praised for what it is that they do, which can be quite a hindrance

when you're trying to make a film, which is something that it takes a lot of people to put together. So yeah, and of course, obviously be good at what they do. But that's the basics. Mason- Yes. And Jesse, just before we run out of time, I just want to mention that when we were doing the conversations about civil war, and we spoke to Alex Garland and Kirsten Dunst, your other half, of course. She said that you walked around Atlanta in those pink sunglasses for a whole day. Isn't that right? That you loved them that much, you wore them all the time.

Funny how things get started. I guess that's partially true. Um, I did, we had this idea and I talked to Alex a lot about adding something to the wardrobe that wasn't standard military garb to sort of draw you in and make you question this guy that you only see in this one scene. And so I did go around to a bunch of vintage shops in Atlanta looking for something and then bought a handful of glasses. And then right before we shot, tried them on with Alex and the DP and we all landed on those. And then, yeah, I wore them quite a bit leading up to shooting.

And the day that I was shooting, you know, it was kind of nice, that change in perspective. The whole world is red. But it feels as though this year is going to be the year of Jesse Plemons. I must say some of the most memorable cinema has come from you, Jesse, and from you, Jorgos. And I think you're working again together, would that be right, Jorgos? Yes, it seems so. That's why we're in London. Okay. And I suspect we won't get any further with that one, but Jesse Plemons and Jorgos

Lanthimos, thank you so much for talking to us today. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Jesse. Thank you, Jorgos. Appreciate your time. Thank you. So now the first thing to be said, that was Jorgos and Jesse, obviously, is that normally what happens is I get to do the interview, Mark does the interview, we do the interview like weeks ahead. In the case of Jeff Nichols for the Bike Riders, like half a year ahead. This is one of those whereby even though you have just heard the interview, we actually haven't done it yet. So let's assume that it went very well.

So fantastic. Well done for hitting all those points. So, just to say, look, I may well repeat or contradict everything that was just said because it hasn't been said yet, and I haven't heard it. So, that's my excuse, but it's actually true. So, kinds of kindness. New film from Yorgos Lanthimos, which was, this was actually shot, it was in the can before Poor Things opened. Like Horizon, Chapter One, the Kevin Costner film, this is three hours long. Like Horizon, it has three distinct stories. Unlike Horizon, this is a huge amount of fun. This reunites Lanthimos, Emma Stone, Willem Dafoe, cinematographer Robbie Ryan, composer Jerskin Fendricks, who's obviously really clicked with Yorgos Lanthimos. Written with Lanthimos' regular collaborator, Estimis Philippou, who with Paul Things in the favourite were teamed with Tony McNamara.

That gave them, I think, a bit more of a human element. This is the writer with whom he worked on things like Dogtube. This premiered at Cannes where Jesse Plemons won Best Actor. He is one of a central group of players who play different characters across a series of different but thematically kind of interconnected stories. First story is called The Death of RMF. Plemons is Robert Fletcher whose life is strictly controlled by his boss played by Willem Dafoe. He controls what he eats, who he marries, who he has sex with,

and one day he's ordered to run a man down and kill him. He says, I can't do that, and then his life falls apart. The second story, RMF is flying. Jesse Plemons is a policeman. Emma Stone is his partner, Liz, who has disappeared, gone missing on a desert island, and then comes back having been saved, but he doesn't believe that it's actually her. He thinks it's like invasion of the body snatchers. The third story, RMF eats a sandwich, Plemmons and Stone are Emily and Andrew, who are members of a cult led by William the First Omni, who's looking for a prophesied figure who has the ability to raise people from the dead possibly. There are also

recurrent roles for Maury Qualley, I think, Hong-Chang, Jo-Han, a bunch of other people, but that's the central thing. When the film was first put together, it was called And. I did an onstage interview with Robbie Ryan and I said, and what is it about? He said, yeah, exactly. He told me that in the original assembly, they mixed the three stories up. If you think it's complicated now, now it's much more straightforward than it was when they were all messed up together. The tone is broadly absurdist, misanthropic, Kafka-esque, often cruelly hilarious. I mean, I think it's really funny, but I think it's really funny in the same way that Bo is afraid is really funny.

I remember Simon sitting in a cinema with you watching Bo is afraid, and the more you didn't find it funny, the funnier I thought it became. I think there's a crossover there with the human. The stories are unconnected on one level, but they are linked by elaborately weird patterns of human interaction that are all really just exaggerations of everyday life. There's the office schlub who will do anything to please his boss but take him to absurdist levels. There's the unhappy husband whose wife will hurt herself to make him happy because he doesn't think she is herself. There's the search for spiritual fulfillment that has all kind of car crashy implications. The film playfully asks questions

about free will. What does free will mean? What are rules for? What does it mean to be completely subjugated to someone else's whims? What does it mean to be free? In fact, there was an interview with Lanthimos in which he cited Caligula as an influence, not Caligula the film, which incidentally is coming out in a new cut in a few months' time, but Caligula the Emperor who lorded it over everybody. That's one of the things with the boss at the beginning, somebody just being in complete control of people.

Despite the title, there is a distinct lack of kindness on show, but there is in each story a desperation to please, to achieve validation by doing something that someone else demands, no matter how mad, like feeding your partner your own finger because they asked you to do it. All the interactions are manipulative, weirdly joyless, sex is organized and prosaic, even for swingers. The nudity in the film is completely morbid. Devotion is murderous and twisted. Faith is weird. Repetition is unavoidable. I think that the humour is of a piece with things like dog-tooth lobster killing of a sacred deer,

with him as the same writer, and films in which people engage in these kind of weird robotic, almost automaton-like human rituals. There is a gag at the very end of the film that I laughed so much at that I was still laughing as I left the theatre. All the performances are poised and arched. The design is pointed and uncomfortable. Cinematography is kind of weirdly alienated and the score is there to put you on edge. I mean, I can imagine some people hating it. I really enjoyed it, but then I think I really enjoyed it because I really like Yorgos Lanthimos and I found it funny. I think if you don't find it funny, it would be very testing. Yeah.

I think when you said absurdist and misanthropic, I think, yes, that's right. My reaction was very similar to that of watching Bo is Afraid. However, one of the great things about doing this show is that you get to see stuff that you would not normally choose to see. In the way that you hear all kinds of music, if you work in music radio, you get to see stuff that you would not normally choose to see. And in the way that you hear all kinds, if you work in music radio, you get to listen to all kinds of music and you get to appreciate all kinds of different styles and you can appreciate it even if it's not your thing. So how fantastic to have Jorgos and Jesse Plemons on the show.

That's because I haven't spoken to either before. And so therefore that is a triumph. And also how fantastic that one of us had a really good time watching it. Yes. Should we leave it at that? I think we should. Okay. So we're going to be back in just a moment. Mark, what are you reviewing next? A Quiet Place Day One. Day One. Day One. Day One, not part one or part two, but day one of A Quiet Place, next. Sprites for the makers and creators. The visionaries putting in the work to build their dreams. Whether you're shooting a cinematic masterpiece on your phone, filling notebooks with sketches,

or up all night turning your bedroom into the booth. Thirst is everything. Pfft. Obey your thirst. Sprite. Are you ever minding your own business and start to wonder, is the Great Pacific Garbage Patch real? How do the Northern Lights happen? Why is weed not legal yet? Are you ever minding your own business and start to wonder, is the Great Pacific Garbage Patch real?

How do the Northern Lights happen? Why is weed not legal yet? I'm Jonathan Van Ness. And every week on Getting Curious, I sit down for a gorgeous conversation with a brilliant expert to learn all about something that makes me curious. Join me every Wednesday as we set off on a stunning journey of curiosity on a new subject and dive into the archive of more than 370 episodes. Listen

to Getting Curious wherever you get your podcasts. If you've been listening to this program for a while, you will know that it essentially consists of your emails. Thank you very much indeed. Mark's reviews. Mark, thank you very much indeed. Interviews with directors and stars, Jorgos and Jesse. Thank you very much indeed. And sometimes you're offered them and sometimes you're not. Now you know, and everyone else does, that I loved Quiet Place one and two. So I was hoping that we were going to be offered some guests for Quiet Place Day 1. However, it did not work out like that. It galls me to say I have

not seen a Quiet Place Day 1. However, the good news is that Mark has, and this is a Quiet Place Day 1. I hope he's going to be kind. Mason- Yes, Day 1. So this is the third instalment in the Quiet Place series, which as its title suggests, it's a prequel. Although of course, part two had a prequel opening, didn't it? So that was part two began with the start before that. So this is the first appearance of the Alien Invaders as seen from a different point of view of the Abbott family we saw before. So parts one and two were directed by John Krasinski. This prequel is written, directed by Michael Sonosky, who made Pig.

He took over. Apparently, I didn't know this for a bit, Jeff Nichols, your mate Jeff Nichols was at one point in the frame to do it, and then he dropped out due to creative differences. So, Lupita Nyong'o is Sam, who's a young woman living in a hospice by New York City. She's dreaming of returning to her home in Harlem. She wants to get a pizza from her favorite pizzeria. They're on a rare trip into the city when the aliens arrive because it's day one. She finds herself amidst all the chaos and the craziness, teaming up with Joseph Gwynn's Eric, who is a Brit who went to America to study.

She's also got a cat who she loves above all things and protects above all things. They are caught together in the carnage. Now, when the trailer for A Quiet Place Day One opened, somebody said, have you seen the trailer for A Quiet Place? It's the loudest thing I've ever seen. Here is the only clip that we have because we won't, they, they, they, we weren't provided with a clip. We were provided with a bit of the trailer. This is what a quiet place day one sounds like. Wow. I mean, you get the general idea. It's not that quiet. It definitely isn't. So, also co-stars, Josh Quinn, John Hansu returning as the character we met before.

So, here's the thing. If you remember the opening of part two, it was unbelievable. You know, you're in the car with Emily Blunt and there's Monsterstein coming in, and there was that absolutely amazing sequence. You can't top that. It's impossible to top that. So they don't really try. What they do is they go, stuff coming out the star, alien invasion, and then very quickly it settles into the old riff of our heroes having to do everything amidst craziness and chaos, but do it silently. Whether it's two people creeping around in a deserted building and trying not to step on a piece of glass because it'll bring the gribblies, or an entire sea of humanity shuffling

their way very quietly toward the seaport because the beasties can't swim, so if you can get into a boat, you're safe. The standout scene is a scene with Lupita Nyong'o and Quinn in a Harlem bar doing a sort of silent pantomime of a night out in Harlem, which is a scene which recalls, you remember the dancing scene from the first film in which they have a romantic moment and it's almost like a heart back to what life was like before everything went completely crazy. That scene, it's done nicely. I think Lupita Nyong'o gives her character real depth. I mean, this is someone for whom survival is not an option. We meet her in a hospice. She has other goals, therefore, to get back home, to find a slice of pizza that she really wants to protect her cat and actually to somehow look

after her companion. There's a very nice dynamic that there's the man and the woman and he is the person who's in tears and hysterical and doesn't know what's going on. She is the person who is calm and rational and is getting to be, okay, Nate, you need to do this. This is what you need to have. This is what you need to do. I think the first time I ever saw Lupita Nyong'o on screen was in 12 Years a Slave, and then of course she was in Us. She's got an incredibly expressive facial and physical manner. She's very good for this role because she does so much of conveying the story through her expression, through her facial expressions, through the way in which she holds her shoulders, through the way in which she moves, which tells us about the

history of the pain that she's in because of her illness. She I think is a really, really smart bit of casting. I think that said, this film, unlike the two previous Quiet Place movies, I was never scared. I think that is a problem. It may be that, okay, the gimmick has now run its course. I certainly didn't come out of it thinking I need more. I thought, okay, you've done this. You got away with it. Well done. It's a solid piece of work with a very, very good central performance. But I think it's now done because there wasn't anything in it that had that absolute, I mean, you remember how much A Quiet Place really got

under your skin and A Quiet Place too. It was good to see in those silent scenes, to see the movie make the audience go silent again, because I saw it in quite a full screening and people did go quiet and that is good. So it's a good solid piece of work, but it's not on a par with the previous two installments, even though it has at its centre a very good performance. And I mean a very good performance by Lupita Nyong'o. Longtime listeners will remember an interview that Lupita Nyong'o did for us. It was Black Panther and it was kind of okay. And she was a bit bored talking about Black Panther. And then I mentioned Queen of Katwe. And suddenly it became a different interview because that's what she wanted to, you know,

she wasn't planning to talk about it, but she really wanted to talk about that. And that was such a great film. Such a great film. And well done for bringing it up. I should have mentioned it as well. Yeah. Well done. It's such a great movie. It's just sometimes, you know, there's something that unlocks the conversation and she was just bored with talking about Black Panther. And obviously no one had asked her about Queen of Katwe for years. And yet she was very, very, very happy with it. Okay. So that's A Quiet Place, day one. And it's A Quiet Place, day one. And it's also the end of take one.

It's been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Lily, Gully, Vicky, Zachy, Matty, and Bethy. The producer was Jim. The redactor was Simon Poole. What is your film of the week? Well, I once wrote Simon that there are films you can love and films you can hate, but the best films are the films that you love and hate at the same time. And so on behalf of this program, I would like to say the film that fulfills that criteria and

is Film of the Week is Kindness of Kindness. Mason- Correspondence at kevinameo.com. Thank you very much indeed for listening. Take two has landed already. Enjoy. Music