Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Kirsten Dunst & Alex Garland, Civil War, The Teachers’ Lounge, The First Omen & Back to Black

Episode Date: April 12, 2024

This week, Kirsten Dunst and Alex Garland sit down to chat with Simon about their new film ‘Civil War’, which sees Dunst star as a photojournalist travelling with her team across a dystopian United States, engulfed by a second civil war, in a bid to interview and photograph the president. Mark also gives his take on the film, as well as reviewing ‘The Teachers’ Lounge’, a drama in which a teacher decides to step in when one of her students is suspected of theft, finding herself caught between her ideals and the school system in the process; and ‘The First Omen’, which sees a young American nun start to question her own faith when she uncovers a terrifying conspiracy to bring about the birth of evil incarnate in Rome. The big review of the week is ‘Back to Black’, a musical biopic about singer Amy Winehouse’s tumultuous relationship with Blake Fielder-Civil inspires her to write and record the groundbreaking album ‘Back to Black’. Timecodes (relevant only for the Vanguard - who are also ad-free!): The Teachers’ Lounge – 6:58 Box Office Top Ten – 10:55 The First Omen – 13:16 Kirsten Dunst & Alex Garland Interview – 25:32 Civil War Review – 37:45 Back to Black Review – 46:11 You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Right, Mark. Up next, oh it's another ad for NordVPN. Well seeing as we've done so many riveting ads for NordVPN, how shall we make this one stand out Simon? Surely everyone, and I mean everyone who listens to this show already knows about the benefits of NordVPN. Well that's a good point. I mean we could say that by using NordVPN you can access films in regions outside of your own, would that work? Well that is a good point, but I think we have already done that. What about mentioning that NordVPN can act as your cyber bodyguard, your virtual Kevin

Costner? Yeah, we've definitely done that because you've made that joke before. Okay, how about this? NordVPN can save you money on a range of online purchases by switching your virtual location. Done that too. You're just being difficult. I'm just telling you what we've done. What about just mentioning the huge discount that our listeners can get?

Yeah, and again, how many about just mentioning the huge discount that our listeners can get? And again, how many times have we said huge discount? Make up a new jingle. Okay, all right, go ahead. Actually, I think we could just keep it simple and say this. To get the best discount off your NordVPN plan, go to NordVPN.com slash take. Our link will also give you four extra months on the two year plan. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money back guarantee.

The link is in the podcast episode description box. The simplicity is everything. Go to NordVPN.com slash take for the best discount, which is huge, and get four extra months on the two-year plan. Simple as that. This is take one. We should start with some context, which is it's first thing in the morning and I spent last night at your house, which usually is the best sleep of the week. You know, it's great.

I go up into the attic and I gaze at child ones, Millennium Falcon and the Quentin Tarantino book that's been sitting there for as long as I've been visiting. Anyway. Not been read actually, that was a gift from my nephew and I apologize nephew. Well last night, this is the old joke, I've eaten something that disagrees with me. No you haven't. And something that disagreed with me decided that it was going to be Splatterpunk Central. And so I spent the night throwing up. Now, I should say all very clean, all

very well directed, all very good. But so consequently, I'm a little rattled and probably not tippity top. No, but if this was a live radio show, would you be confident to proceed? Yeah, yeah. I mean, everything that's coming out has come out. As far as you're aware. Okay. I'm sorry if I kept you awake. I am really sorry.

I know that I did wake you up. If you need to run out at any stage. Yeah, we'll just edit it. Well, just have just edit it. Well, just have a code word. If you say, um, how's your father, then I might say that in ordinary conversation, then you dash for the door and I will continue like a stoic. You do have a carrier bag, just in case.

I've got a bag in case something untoward happens. In case things take a bad turn. Yeah, I'm very sorry. Anyway, I'm sure that's it. All the listeners need to know. That's true. Food poisoning is absolute. Pain in everything.

Yes. Anyway, but we're happy to proceed. We are, yes. Also Mark won't be eating his pastry. No, can we not talk about food? All right. Okay, that's a good point. Is there any food in any. No, can we not talk about food? All right. Okay, that's a good point. Is there any food in any of the films that we're talking about?

No. Oh, there's a site. No, no, it's not an eat eat week. No, it's not the Grand Booth or anything like that. No. Okay, that's a good thing. No, stop. Sorry.

Okay. Moving on. What are you going to be reviewing later? I'm going to be reviewing a number of films, including the Oscar nominated The Teacher's Lounge. Yes. We will be getting to the first Omen in the chart rundown. That was some food arrived.

Yeah. That was screened after we had recorded the show. Thank you for hiding that. And then we're going to be reviewing Back to Black, which is the Amy Winehouse biopic, and Civil War, which you must have seen posters and trailers for everywhere with your special guests, plural. Alex Garland and Kirsten Dunst. It's amazing.

Both very welcome. I don't think I've interviewed either of them before. You've not interviewed Alex Garland for X-Mech? What did you do? What's the star of that film? I don't think I did. What did you do? What's the star of that film? I don't think I did. Anyway, Alex Garland and Kirsten Dunst.

Civil War is quite a moment. Anyway, we can discuss that later. In our extra takes landed already. Recommendation feature, TV movie of the week, the weekend watchlist, weekend news. Bonus reviews of... Opponent, which is a new film in cinemas, Ratcatcher, which is a classic film back in cinemas. I'm also just going to throw ahead to next week and the release of a film called All You Need Is Death, which I saw last night and I thought, I'm sorry, I have to mention this today,

so I will do. Okay. When you said that you were going to throw... I did... You're going to throw a head. One Frame Back is best cursed and dunce movies. And if you don't want to wait until Wednesday for questions, that's a very good idea because they're now in take two. That's where they are. You can access everything via our Apple podcast or head to extra takes.com for non-fruit related devices.

If you are already a Vanguardista, as always, we salute you even when health is failing us. Gav. Hello, Gav. Mark and Simon, long-term listener, first-time emailer. I missed the boat on contacting you first time around, but since this film in question will be receiving its streaming debut on Shudder this week, I thought it would be pertinent to email you.

Liverpool resident here, about a month ago, whilst at the cinema waiting for a film to start, a trailer began for a fairly generic looking horror film. It was overly long and contained all the jump scares like all the horror movie trailers tend to these days. The audience was completely nonplussed until the final moment of the trailer when the title was revealed, Baghead, at which point the entire audience erupted into uproarious laughter. In Liverpool, and many other places in the UK, Baghead is, as described in Urban Dictionary, a term for a drug user, possibly originating from the manner in which solvent addicts imbibe glue.

Surely there was somebody involved in the film production that was from the UK that could have highlighted this, Peter Mullin maybe, unless it was done with some intentional purpose to generate more buzz on social media. But my question is, are you and all your listeners aware of any other films that have, this is almost like a question, where of any other films where the title means one thing in a certain part of the world or country, totally different and perhaps unintentionally hilarious definition in other parts. There's a film about journalism with Brian Cox that came out a couple of years ago. And at the end of it, when they fought the evil journalist establishment, Brian Cox,

who should know better because he's from this side of the Atlantic, says, we're going to set up a new paper. It's going to be completely, you know, it's to set up a new paper. It's going to be completely, you know, it's going to have its own thing. It's going to tell the truth. It's not going to be answerable to anyone or any oligarchs or anything. And we're going to call it the independent. Surely Brian must have gone, can I just raise this thing? But it's been taken. And it's probably not that. And a long time ago I interviewed Woody Allen for a movie and in which he says he's talking about I think his first girlfriend who was called Margaret Beckett.

That's right yeah. And I said it to him in the interview, Margaret Beckett is the leader of the Labour Party, so everybody laughed in the cinema. But he obviously, those kind of things, there will be many where people, unintentional jokes. Also, Baghead isn't any good, so it's a shame that the short film it's based on is quite good but the long film isn't. So do you think they just didn't know or does that not, maybe they did know and they thought well, that maybe it'll get us a laugh when it's shown in the movie.

I mean, the central character is a character who's got a bag over their head. So it's like he does what it says on the tin. Okay, fair enough. Anyway, correspondents at Curb of the Mountain dot com, tell us about a movie that's out that we might want to go and see at the cinema. The Teacher's Lounge, which I think you will want to go and see. This is a German drama from writer-director Ilke Tschattak. It was nominated for best international feature at Lost Out, the Zone

of Interest. You remember all this? Anatomy of a Fool wasn't put forward by France, possibly because Justin Trudeau had criticized the government at the Cannes Film Festival. Anyway, so Leni Bienisch is a maths and gym teacher, Carla. She's fairly newly arrived at this school and the school prides itself on being open and progressive. At the beginning of classes, she gets her class to join in a kind of chanting and clapping thing. She goes, hello class, and they all go, if she wants them to be quiet, she goes, and they all go, they're all like that. She seems to resonate with them. But there are a series of thefts at the school and the finger of suspicion starts to point to the pupils.

The pupils are then effectively coerced by the school into ratting on each other. One kid is a Turkish boy, he's pulled out of class because he has money in his wallet, wrongly as it turns out. Did they pick on him because he's Turkish? Why did he get singled out? Carla thinks maybe it isn't the student. She sets up her laptop, like the laptop I have here, and she leaves a coat with a wallet in it and the laptop video running.

And then she goes away and she comes back and she has a video. That seems to incriminate somebody from an article of clothing. She goes to this person and says, look, if you own up, we'll just call it that. The person doesn't own up. The person says, how dare you? And the next thing is the whole situation spirals out of control. The video becomes a secret spy cam. The accused person becomes a victim. The school kids turn against their formerly favorite teacher. Everything goes to pieces. I thought it was incredibly tense. I mean, I've never taught in a classroom. I know that you come from a teaching family. But it has an almost Hitchcockian edge, the way in which the tensions

in the classroom turn. There's one moment when one character says to the teacher, a young character, if you do this, you'll regret it, and says it with this kind of real genuine threat. And I suppose that sort of on one hand, the message of the film is the road to hell is paved with good intentions, but it's much, much more enigmatic than that. There's a brilliant central performance by Leni Beanes. She's got the nervy air of somebody. She wants to side with the kids. She wants to side with the students. She wants to do right by the students. She wants the school to do right by the students, but every single thing she does just makes things worse. A brilliantly enigmatic ending, fantastic music. Marvin Miller did the score and it's all these sort of tense,

plucked ambient strings. In fact, at one point there is a cue which is called Elterna Bend, which really reminded me of Khrisistov, Khrisistov, Khrisistov, again, Khrisistov, Penderetsky, I can never say that name, Penderetsky's probably more difficult. It sounds like a difficult name to get right. We just call him Chris. Very tonal, very disquieting, also uses some Mendelssohn, which is obviously less tonal. Anyway, I thought it was really good. Like I said, it has genuine sort of Hitchcock or Chabrol kind of icy edge to it in which everything is about understatement.

And you, I mean, I started to get a panic attack watching it because it's somebody just trying to do the right thing and everything going wrong. It's called The Teacher's Lounge and I went in not expecting anything, I knew it had been awards nominated, but it's really worth your time. Okay, that does sound like a promising way to start. Very good. The Teacher's Lounge. Okay, still to come on this podcast, Mark will be reviewing...

Back to Black, which is the Amy Winehouse biopic. The first Omen, which we'll do in the chart rundown, which is the Omen prequel. And of course, Civil War with our special guests. Alex Garland and Kirsten Dunst. More in just a moment. This episode is brought to you by the curated streaming service Mubi. Mark, for our wonderful listeners who already have a Mubi account, and for those who might be thinking about getting one, could you please tell us what films they can enjoy this April? For all comedy fans, the Funny Ha Ha Film Group is streaming on Mubi UK from April 1st, including Yannick, which is the Quentin DuPierre movie, which was shot in secret in

just six days. That's streaming on Movie UK from April the 5th. And Tony Erdman, which you will remember me reviewing when it came out, I absolutely loved it. That is now streaming on Movie UK and it's really, really darkly hilarious and uncomfortable and wonderful. That's Movie's Funny Ha Ha series. What's on offer beyond the world of comedy.

You remember Perfect Days, the Vim Vendors film, we reviewed that. That is available, won the Best Actor award at Cannes this year and is a huge favourite among Vim Vendors fans. Some Vendors fans are saying it's one of his best. That's streaming on MUBI UK from April the 12th. You can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com slash Kermit and Mayo. That's MUBI.com slash Kermit and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. Well hello there, Simon and Mark here to tell you about Indeed.

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at indeed.com slash KermodeMayo. That's indeed.com slash KermodeMayo. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed. Indeed. terms and conditions apply, need to hire, you need indeed. Well here we go with our Box Office Top 10 brought to you this week by Comscore Movies. Do they literally bring it physically? Thank you very much for the Box Office Top 10 to all our friends at Comscore.

Does it come round in like a, in a box? They bring it on a silver platter. Do they? And it has a lid, a silver lid, and then they lift the lid and it contains numbers and words. And those numbers are this week, at number 16, Evil Does Not Exist. Which I like. It's very enigmatic and it's very moody. It's got an absolutely brilliant score by Ekosh Bashee and it's from the director

of Drive My Car and they'd worked together previously on that. This is sort of a film about the balance of nature, I think, but it has, I mean I talked about the ending of Teachers' Lounge being enigmatic. The ending of Evil Does Not Exist is one of those things, it's not just that you'll argue about what it means, you'll argue about what happened. But I thought it was just really good to see a film that was willing to just take the audience seriously. Number 10 is Luca. Which is back in cinemas, I mean back in cinemas, it wasn't in cinemas, but there was this whole

thing about all the Disney films that were open during the lockdown period are getting cinematic releases. Number nine is Wicked Little Letters. Also just mentioning, because it's top 10 in America as well as number 10 in the USA, which it hasn't been. Wicked Little Letters. Yes. Yeah. Well, I think Wicked Little Letters is very, very funny.

I've run out of ways to say that I think that Olivia Colman and Jesse Buckley's swearing is funny, but I think the script is actually much better. I mean, I'm still baffled that some critics really took against it, but this is its seventh week in the top 10, so it's clearly finding a home. Number eight is Seize Them! The thing- Exclamation mark. Yeah, I like Seize Them. It was, you know, it's funny, it's scrappy. It's not quite

Catherine Colberti, but it's got a similar kind of, a similar vibe to it. And Amy Lou Wood, who came on our show, our Halloween show, dressed as Miss Aversham, is really good. Again, very sweary. Lots of Nick Frost as a... Nick Frost's job is a poo shoveler, and he takes full advantage of the jokes. Of course he does. Sees them in number eight, number seven in the UK, 24 in the States is Migration.

Ten weeks in the top ten. I mean, that is a really good showing for a film that I thought was okay. Number six is The First Omen, number four in the States. Okay, so this is a prequel to the Omen series. Follows on from, well, pre-dates. So Omen, which is creepy fun, 1970s, Damien Omen 2, as I said before, I went to school with Damien Omen 2. as I said before, I went to school with Damien Omen 2. Final conflict, Sam Neill.

Omen 4, The Awakening. Holy fetus paparitius, Batman. And that is probably the dumbest of all of them. And then more recently, the entirely unnecessary John Moore remake from 2006, which followed its predecessor so closely that David Seltzer still got sole script credit. And if you ever get a chance,

look at the making of Featurette on the DVD in which John Moore just Fs and blinds his way through the cash strap production about how everything is terrible and everything's falling apart. He describes one of the props as the work of a special school for deranged criminals. And when he learns that the film's had

the biggest ever Tuesday opening, he says, that's like coming forth in a one-legged egg and spoon race. So it's no surprise really to say that this, which directed by Cash Stevenson, making a feature debut, is better than that. It's a step in the right direction. 1971, Nelto Free is American novice nun who goes to Rome where she's placed in an orphanage where it becomes clear that they are trying to birth the Antichrist, which they've been doing in all these films. Film includes a lot of nods to the original. Why would they want to birth the Antichrist?

You know why? Because in the 1970s, the world is becoming very secular, okay? And people aren't believing in things. So, maybe birthing your Antichrist, maybe that'll be good for it. And particularly in the world that we're in now in which worshipping the devil in the name of God is a very big thing, not so far-fetched. So in the original film, Patrick Troughton gets skewered by the pointy thing that comes off the church.

This one starts off with a pole coming down hitting the priest on the head. In the original one, the nanny throws herself out the window. In this one, a nun throws herself out the window, but on fire. So, you know, it's kind of all set up. So on the plus side, central performance is kind of fun. And Bill Nye and Charles Dance managed to keep admirably straight faces while all this is going on. I mean, Bill Nye, you just keep expecting Bill Nye to go, well, it's what we do. It's kind of our job. Do you remember that? We don't trust people. And who does he play? He's a, it's what we do. It's kind of our job. Do you remember that? We don't trust people.

Why not? And who does he play? He's a priest. Of course he is. In Italian. There's a priest, a priestly Bill Nye and a priestly Charles Dance. More importantly, the director clearly can direct

and knows how to manage an eerie set piece. The period setting works well, and it's put together solidly. It also, as I said, taps into that thing, which is very of the moment about church folk being sort of, you know, kind of pro-devil stuff because hey, you know, I mean, there's all these mad people in America at the moment trying to bring about Armageddon, you know, because

the Bible says they have to do, I mean, just insane stuff. So, um, do we have a clip? I can't do this. Tell me. Have you ever been to a bar? No. A disco? No. Anything at all? Because your whole life you wanted to give yourself only to him, right? Look, I know, I know it's scary coming out from under the habit, but look at you. You're a very beautiful and go to a disco.

How do you think that's going to end? Well, that's a kind of a sleazy, sexy scene. That's the way it's going to go. So look, all those things are kind of plus points. There's nothing like as bad as it could have been. On the downside, firstly, we don't need an Omen prequel, particularly when Immaculate did the Rosaries baby thing much better. And Immaculate is a better film that doesn't have to tie itself up to an existing franchise,

but it's the same story. If we are going to have an Omen franchise, and I'm sorry this is just me, can we make the details of the prequel match up with the details of the original? I hate to say this, but in the original Damien was not born of a nun, he was born of a jackal. They actually find the jackal in a grave in Megiddo, which is where Armageddon comes from. And if you're going to do this stuff, just at least do the homework. The score dances around the original score, which of course was Oscar nominated and Oscar winning and won it twice. And it is probably the best Omen movie since the first, but to quote John Moore, that is a bit like saying it being second in a one-legged

egg and spoon race. However, if you take into account that we don't need another Omen movie and Immaculate already did all of this better and without the need for a franchise, it's kind of okay and it's well directed. But it is rubbish. G.A. Doyle says, Dear Doctors, as a colonial commoner of the New Zealand parish, I was lucky enough to attend an advanced screening of the First Dome and Last Wednesday Evening at the beautifully restored Roxy Cinema in Wellington, a splendid place to enjoy a movie. And what could be better than some nun-based terror to while away the evening? Alas, I went in with low expectations and when the obligatory quiet, quiet nun jump

scares and a child's dance cameo as a guilt-ridden priest occurred, my fears began to be realised. He does do guilt-ridden priests well, though. Once the truly ridiculous central premise was revealed, I lost faith entirely. There are some well-executed body horror set pieces and great central performances from Nell Tigerfree. The best moment of the night, however, was the car crash which induced the audience into fits of laughter rather than terror. Proper tosh, absolutely, but enjoyable nonetheless.

There we go. I think we're pretty much on the same page. J.A. Doyle. Number five is Monkey Man. Nicholas says, dear Mark and Lars, just a quick note to say how uplifted I was when leaving a late night showing of Monkey Man on Sunday. I've seen lots of films like this over the years, but this was elevated above most of them, even John Wick. Anyway, my overall sense was that this could be summarized as the gritty love child of Blade and Gladiator

with a bit of Emerald Forest thrown in for good measure. But it wasn't so much the film's narration, editing or cinematography that left me so uplifted. It was the fact that when I was growing up, this story with this cast and its core of Indian culture could never have been made by anyone in the UK for a mass UK audience. Love the show Steve, as always, Nicholas. Good. I'm really glad you enjoyed it because we both did. So well done to Dev. Yeah, he's great. I mean, what an action hero. James Bond.

James Bond. Dev Patel for James Bond. Campaign mean, what an action hero he is. James Bond. James Bond. Dev Patel for James Bond. Campaign starts here. Dune Part 2 is at four. Which I think is very good. I said they had a mountain to climb. They seem to have climbed it.

We are, by the look of it, going to get Dune Part 3, which is Dune Messiah. By the way, I should have said Monkey Man is number two in the States. Wow. So big hit for Dev. Wow. Good for Dev. And Jordan Beale. Number three here, number three in the States, Ghostbusters Frozen Empire.

Nicholas from Luxembourg, brackets the country. When Mark didn't like the new Ghostbuster movie, I thought, well, we don't agree on comedies, nothing new there. But when I heard Mark's rant about the film, and it was the first big rant in a while, I was surprised. Was there something else that crawled under his skin? A movie about spirits, the undead, and living people dealing with them professionally? Could it be that Mark hated Ghostbusters so much because it's essentially the same? It's the Exorcist. That's that.

I'd say it is the same as The Exorcist. David Seltzer, who wrote the first omen, said in an interview he was asked by 20th Century Fox to rewrite The Exorcist. He said, can you do us an Exorcist film? You went, all right. There you go, words. There you go. Number two here, number one in the States is Godzilla X Kong, The New Empire. Now, I am assured by my very good friend, the film critic Linda Marrick, that it's pronounced

Godzilla Kong. It is a gaming thing. I mean, I don't know because I'm 105 years old, but I said to Linda, Linda, how do you pronounce that title? And she went, it's Godzilla Kong, the new empire. Yeah, I'm just, I'm just saying and the X is silent as in yes. And because before we had Godzilla V Kong now we've got Godzilla Kong. And as somebody brilliantly wrote on the YouTube channel, the next one is going to be Godzilla Kong. Why?

Yes, that's exactly what I was going to say. No, sorry. Michael in Berlin. Further to Simon's question in today's podcast about which letter of the alphabet comes. It's Godzilla Kong. Why? Although someone else had said the first one was V, so that's five. This one is X, so that's 10.

So the next one is XV. I don't understand why the X is silent. I don't know. Linda said it's like in a wrestling match, but I don't know, an all boxing match or something. Okay, if someone could explain why the X is silent. Linda, if you could write in and explain why the X is silent.

Because when I have a gaming question, I always think of her. Yes, exactly. I turn straight to Linda for that. Eric Crawford says, gentlemen, after deep research, I asked a teenager, I've learned what that letter is all about. Apparently fan fiction titles use it to indicate who is being shipped with whom. So it's about a couple getting together, in this case to make Bashi-Krashi together. When two monsters love each other very much, they make Bashi-Krashi and it produces Mothra. And number one here, five in the States, Kung Fu Panda IV. Why?

No, why? Why? Exactly, Kung Fu Panda IV. Why? Why? There's a why there as well. No, there is just a why. Why? I mean, why? Well Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? He would just punch all of them. Absolutely. How about Dev Patel V John Wick? Monkey Man V John Wick. That would be a good, that would be very good. Monkey Man X John Wick. Anyway, it's the ads in a minute Mark.

Okay. Obviously not very well. I know what's coming next. I just remind you I'm not very well. That's why you need the laughter lift. Here we go to make Mark better. Oh god. Well, Mark, I had an awful week at home. The good lady's ceramicist here in doors nearly threw me out of the house.

Something to do with my unbearably dirty habits. I nearly choked on my toenails. Nearly choked on... Oh, I see, fine, fine, fine. Had to make things up with her laughter. Oh, you know, can I just after. I spent last night throwing up. I don't know that that joke was sensible. Had to make things up with her after the toenail gate. So at her request, I took her to Mill Hill

Orchard and we stood there looking at the trees for half an hour. It wasn't the Apple Watch she was expecting apparently, but that's actually what happened. Why Mill Hill Orchard? I mean, of all the happened. Why Mill Hill Orchard? I mean, of all the places, why Mill Hill? There are closer ones. Tim Polcat used to live in Mill Hill.

Inspired by the Gang of Three, I've started my own one-man band, Mark, called the Gang of Me. We spread sensible centrist polemics over properly tuned melodic guitars. Our first song is called Duvet, the second was called Ida Down, and our third is called Blanket. We only do covers. Hey, that was good. That was worth waiting for. Made you better. Anyway, back after this, unless you're a Vanguard Eastie,

in which case we have just one question. Which country in the world has the highest numbers of tornadoes per land area per year? Hey, it's Ben Bailey-Smith here, Substitute T Taker and this episode is brought to you by better help. Now a lot of us spend our lives wishing we had more time. If I had an extra hour slotted into my day I'd actually get through a question, shmessions, you know, it's I can never quite fit the extra shows in. We all live busy lives these days and everything seems to move at a hundred miles an hour so how do we know what to make room for like how do we know what's really important when our lives are happening so quickly. Therapy can

help you find what matters to you and if you know what matters to you you can do more of it. Isn't that why we're really here? If you're thinking of starting therapy give Better Help a try it's entirely online and it's designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. With over a thousand therapists in the UK already, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a wide variety of expertise and our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash curmode. That's betterhelp.com slash curmode. So here we go, and the highest number of tornadoes per land area per year. You see, I'd say America. And the answer is the United Kingdom.

We are the tornado capital of the world, with more twisters per square mile in England specifically than in any other country, and our own tornado alley being the Thames Valley between Reading and London. Wow. We get roughly between 40 and 50 tornadoes per year but since we're a small set of islands we win with the per square kilometer stakes 2.3 per 10,000 square kilometers. Okay, okay. I mean I kind of knew that it wouldn't be America because it's too obvious.

The United States sees around 1,200 tornadoes per year, but the country is 40 times bigger. So it works out at 1.3 per 10,000 square kilometres. So don't whinge to us about your tornadoes when we are the tornado kings. Oi, Judy Garland. Yeah, it's a twister. Get used to it. Yeah, go to Reading. See how they like it.

Anyway, they like it. You're not in Kansas anymore. It's Kid twister. Get used to it. Yeah, go to Reading. See how they like it. Anyway, they like it. You're not in Kansas anymore. It's Kid Diminster. Guest today, Kirsten Dunst and Alex Garland. So between them, The Beach, 28 Days Later, Sunshine, what else? Virgin Suicide, Spider-Man, Eternal Sunshine, The Spotless Mind, Power of the Dog. They've got a lot going on. A lot going on. She stars in Alex Garland's latest film, which is Civil War. You'll hear from Alex and Kirsten after this, which is a little clip from Civil War.

Citizens of America, the so-called Western forces of Texas and California have suffered a very great defeat at the hands of the United States military. Mr. President, do you regret the use of airstrikes against American citizens? We're moving to D.C. today. We need to go down there. They shoot journalists on sight in the Capitol. Every instinct in me says this is death. What if...

Every time I survived the war zone, I thought I was sending a warning home. Don't do this. But here we are. And that's a clip from Civil War. I'm delighted to say we've been joined by Alex Garland, writer-director, Kirsten Dunst, one of the stars of the movie. Welcome. Thank you. It's lovely to see you. I saw the film last night and I feel as though I'm still in shock, really. And it also makes me think I need to go and see it again. Probably in IMAX. Would that be the right reaction, Alex? What do you think? Well, I mean, it sounds like a nice reaction. That's what it sounds like. I mean- It is a nice reaction. That's what it sounds like. I mean... It is a nice reaction.

IMAX is a good way to see it. To me, IMAX is good not just for the size of the screen, it's the sound system as well. And I think this film, the sound system, really plays into it. I'd also say just separately, completely separate to this movie. I find it quite interesting that it can be shown in IMAX because of the cameras

it was shot on. These were not IMAX cameras. They are in some ways consumer grade, small, self-stabilizing handheld cameras. X Machina was shot years ago, not on IMAX cameras. They're just showing that on IMAX. Lots of films could be on IMAX. It sort of dispels some kind of magic, but a good distillation. It's great. I wasn't going to get to this point until later on in the interview, but you've got a brand new camera, haven't you, for this? It really was brand new, yeah.

It became available really weeks before pre-production. Rob Hardy and I, the DOP, tested it and thought, this is going to do exactly the thing we need. Cameras are tools, different tools, different jobs. The camera informs in various ways the way something gets shot. The grammar of the film can come out of its physical body in all sorts of different ways. This was a dream for this movie, this camera.

I love it. About to use it again actually. Kirsten, are you aware of all this? Obviously, you have an important story to tell. Does what camera Alex is using make any difference to the way you're performing? When we were in the car altogether, the way the cameras were set up, we had eight on a vehicle that Wagner was actually driving.

So there was an intimacy and a freedom because we weren't, there was so many ways that we were captured. And so it felt very, we could all be very natural and in the moment and not feel like, okay, now it's your closeup, your closeup. So it was more immersive. Right. You play Lee. I'm aware we haven't told the story of the film. We just talked about cameras. But tell us who Lee is and where we find her at the beginning of Civil War.

Lee Smith, you find all the characters together. Wagner plays Joel. Kaylee plays Jesse. And then Stephen plays Sammy. So you're kind of picking up these characters on the way, and it's really a road trip from New York City to Washington, D.C., taking the back roads to film and interview the president or to photograph and interview the president. So you finally kind of in the midst of her job and what she does. And she is famous for what she does. In your film, she is like a legend. Would that be fair? I mean, what do you think? Yeah, probably among, in that community.

Yeah, not like a... Like the real Lee Miller or Don McCullen, who's also name checked in the film. There's many others. Very, very well known in their community, probably less so outside, but there'll be people who've heard of them. So I think Lee, that's, now I could go on, which I won't because it'll bore you, but I could go on about why I do that. But it essentially reduces to me feeling that with certain kinds of subject matter, you either end up creating a lecture or it's a false errand. Because it is not in the nature

of communication that we are clear with each other in the way that one would need to be clear for those statements to land universally. So I don't worry too much about it. I make the thing. I know what I thought. I know where I have placed these arguments. I can guarantee I have thought about it. I can guarantee that every frame, every moment will have been thought about. Past that, it's up to you. Kirsten, when you read the script, what did you think? You know, a lot of times you read a script and you're thinking, oh, can I do that?

Like, oh, I look at the character more and this was totally, like I was on the ride, you know. I wasn't outside of myself looking at, you know, can I play this role or anything? I fully went on the ride of this script, which is rare when you read a script. So yeah, I thought I'd never read anything like this before and I had been a massive fan of Alex's and he makes so few movies,

so to even, you know, have the opportunity to be in one of them was really exciting for me. My take for what it's worth, which you might want to run with or not, probably not, is that it's a fight against fascism and that it's quite clearly a president who has acquired too much power. He's a third term president, which is of course not possible at the moment. He's abolished the FBI. He's attacked ordinary citizens. So it's arising against him.

So the way I'd say is I could say I agree from my point of view. I can also guarantee there will be people who do not see it that way. And that is in the nature of the job. The question is whether that stops you from doing anything or says this is the right way to do it. But those are like separate questions. But I would agree, I think the president is quite clearly presented as fascist. Now I know some people are saying this isn't a political film, but that would be at odds with what you just said. Because warning about fascism and then asking a question, is that something worth warning about? Is there

an actual danger of fascism? That seems to be an intensely political point. But I also accept that accept that what I just said before, you'd be like King Canoe. If you try to object to subjective responses, you will just get swallowed by the tide. So I don't bother. War photographers are a particular kind of person, Kirsten. Where did you find her? Who did you speak to? Who do you look at? Was it the photographers that Alex has mentioned? Because it's a particular type of journalism that is needed at this point. You know, what spoke to me the most is a documentary that Alex showed us under the wire about Maria Colvin. So watching that was kind of influenced me the most in terms of who I looked at. And then I do a lot of private work to internalize and kind of almost like a therapy between me and the character I'm playing.

But with the unconscious mind, it sounds a little hippie-dippie, that's what I do a lot of dream work. So it's really like grounding my decisions and in a very authentic way to myself, that it becomes cathartic for me and not a performance. Was this story always going to be told, Alex, by war photographers? Was it always your intention for us to be with them on the road trip to Washington? Yeah, yeah it was. War photographers and writers, I mean there's a couple of writers there as well.

I grew up around journalists. My dad was a cartoonist on a paper, and I really just grew up around the kitchen table. Very famous cartoonist. Tell him he'll be delighted. I really did grow up around journalists and spent a lot of time with them. There's a moment where I think it's Wagner smiles at Kayleigh and they're thrilled and terrified at the same time. There's a dichotomy and a dissonance and that's typical of those people. But I kind of thought they're us.

We are in this film, we are terrified and we're smiling as well because it's a great ride. And they are adrenaline junkies, aren't they? A lot of war photographers. Some of them are. Some of them are, not all of them, but yeah, some of them are. That's interesting. I like hearing how moments land. I just want to mention before we're done, Jesse Plemons' extraordinary appearance with his extraordinary kind of pink-red sunglasses. I don't want to give anything away, as you say. It's nice to not know too much before you go in.

But I wonder, Kirsten, as Jesse's other half, if he ever brings those home, you have to say no. He went all around Atlanta, going to different vintage stores. We still have the collection of glasses. Our sons will put them on. Like, just weird looking glasses. And I think you two discussed. We did discuss, but it's a very good example of one of those things that probably looks directorial, but isn't.

And there's a lot of films that moments in film like that. Jesse took it on him, said, I think he should wear glasses. He went out, bought tons of glasses, lots of different sorts. Then he laid them all out and we discussed them and landed on them. But it was completely generated by, it was an instinct he had and he bought those glasses thinking maybe these ones. I was very grateful to him for doing that actually. They say immediately, this guy is trouble. They do. They do.

But also strange. There's something strange. It's like Timmy Mallet turned up with a gun or something. Justin won't understand that point. No, but you did. Yeah, I absolutely did. And the other thing, just absolutely before we're done, from the writer. That's fine. British, I figured.

It's okay. It's just British. As the man who wrote 28 Days Later, the zombie apocalypse feel to the road trip was fantastic. Cool. And the most ordinary everyday situations like stopping for petrol, terrifying. We're out of time. Alex, Kirsten, thank you very much indeed. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Very annoying being out of time because it would have been great to have discussed that kind of zombie apocalypse field. So much ground. Which I think is there. And that's the first time Timmy Mallett has ever become part of a, I can tell you Kirsten Dunst was… please don't ask me about that. If you have a moment, go on YouTube and Google Mark Kermode Timmy Mallett's utterly brilliant whole half hour special in which the Railtown Bottlers explain skiffle to Timmy Mallett.

Wow. Wow. An unusual turn. It is. Anyway, so Civil War, quite a movie. Quite the thing. So Garland was a writer first, the novel of the beach, 28 days later, 28 years later he's coming, went on to direct Ex Machina, Annihilation.

He said that this is his last directorial work and it's his most expensive, I think it's A24's most expensive film, a $50 million art house movie. At the beginning of the IMAX screening he said, I can't believe they're blowing this up to IMAX, I can't believe they can do it. And then he left and we all watched it on the biggest screen possible. So, non-specific future, very non-specific. United States has turned against itself, dictator president in the White House, Texas and California are in an alliance as the Western forces against the federal government, militias are everywhere. Journalists traveling from one area to the next on route to Washington to interview the president. That's what they're trying to do. Kirsten Dunst is

Lee. She's working out on the front line with a young girl, Kayleigh Sponey, who is, she sort of becomes her unlikely protege. First thing to say is it's not the film with the trailer. The trailer makes you look like a Marvel movie and the first hour of the film will have you wondering when the Marvel movie starts. It is an evocation of a dystopian future that's very effective. The war-torn streets are war-torn, but there's also that weirdness about rolling into a town where the war doesn't appear to be happening and there's a dress shop selling hats. Dunst is very good as the Lee Miller-esque photojournalist. Don McCullough was mentioned that I said this before, but Don McCullough was my next door neighbor when I was a kid.

His son Paul was one of my very best friends. The weakest thing I think from the writing point of view is the young shutterbug. I think that Kelly Spanning, who was brilliant in Priscilla, does her best with it. But I think that feels like a movie construction. The young person who wants, you know, of all the things that didn't quite ring true, that was it. Jesse Plemons is a total scene stealer. He's only on screen for about, was it 10, 15 minutes? Top me, if that. And he's, you know, you've seen it in the trailer, but it's only on screen for about, was it 10, 15 minutes? If that. And he's, you know, you've seen it in the trailer, but it's just, anyway, so Garland was saying, you know, pose and don't answer a question. Is it apolitical or is it political?

Okay. He said elsewhere that, I mean, he said in that thing, you know, if you don't want to make a lecture or a fool's errand. And Robbie Collin of this parish said that the film is neither anti-Trump nor anti-woke, which is pretty much right. The focus is polarization. The film deliberately plays its immediate politics close to its chest. And as Garland said, in an age of polarization, you want to make a movie that's polarizing. That said, the message is in there. I mean, you said, look, it's a fight against fascism. It's this president is in the White House in his third term, the thing with the FBI. In the interview, you heard Alex say yes and Kirsten nodded. So it was like they were relieved

to actually say it's not a, I mean, it is apolitical, but it's not really. It's constructed in order to allow people of all political persuasions to find a way in. But I think it's not true to say it is apolitical. Now I know that some of the problems with it have been both sidesism, but I think that actually he does that quite well. It's certainly, it's very powerful. And I came out of it thinking, wow, that was really strong.

I remember thinking about 45 minutes in, this is a lot slower than the trailer had suggested and there is an awful lot of character backstory and some of it quite sort of movie character backstory. But once it really gets going, it's very, very strong. I don't know that IMAX was the best place to see it because I almost feel like there's so much going on in the character and the dialogue stuff

that it might be better to slightly step away, but I don't know. I mean, I saw it in IMAX and it looked pretty good, particularly considering the cameras they were using had intended that. So, you know, if you want to go see it in IMAX, sure, but I don't think it is apolitical. I think as Alex Garland said, when you asked that question, the fact that you asked that question kind of demonstrates that it isn't apolitical. So it's a very good evocation of dystopian future world. It deliberately confounds people by having the Texas California alliance. So who's going to, sorry, what, which side are we on? And all the way through, whenever they arrive anywhere, you're not sure who anyone

is. And that is something terrible that's happened. you don't know who has committed that. And I think that is very well sustained. So I like it very much. I thought it was very powerful. Like I said, I'm slightly less than convinced by the relationship between the old photo journalist and the young upcoming photo journalist. I just thought from a writing point of view, that was slightly on the nose.

But otherwise, I thought it was pretty solid. And there's a moment where they talk about, that Kirsten Dunst's character became famous because of, in the dialogue of the film they say because of her photographs of the Antifa massacre. And you don't know whether Antifa have carried out the massacre or it's they who have been massacred. You go, oh, okay, fine. So that's the line that we're walking. Toby- And that happens all the way through the film. And that is how it is designed. You can take, you know, exception to that, but that is what it is. I think it's going to be one of the films of the year.

We would love to hear what you think. Correspondence at KevinOMe.com, thank you for the emails. Rosamund says, Dear Fruitcake and Melon Farmer, on the subject of Simon playing the wrong version of a song on the radio. Well, not you playing the wrong version. Oh no, that was what we were talking about, don't marry her. Yes, I mean, and obviously back in the day when you were responsible for either putting on the vinyl or putting on a CD or putting on a mini disc, it was down to the producer or the

presenter. And now it's just all centrally driven. I remember being at home writing an A-level French essay during a free period in the late 1990s and listening to Simon's mid-morning show on Radio 1. in the late 1990s and listening to Simon's mid-morning show on Radio 1. As a giddy 16-year-old, I was shocked and delighted to hear in play the definitely not radio-edit version of Scooby Snags by the Fun-Loving Criminals, complete with the pulp fiction opener. He played the whole song, then advised listeners where to send their complaints as it ended. I guess this was the burning embers of the innocent pre-internet era, and the moment has really stuck with me

So now my my recollection of that Rosamund is that even the radio edit? Because it has the line I'll execute no the song is fine, but the clip From the Tarantino If any of you melon farmers move on, I'll execute every melon farming last one of you. And to be honest, what they've taken out of that in the edit is so brief, you might as well just play the whole thing. So obviously on this occasion I just did play the actual

thing. But yeah, so it wasn't, I think the song is fine. It was just the clip. Now this email is about food, having established that you're- You're okay, you're okay, it's fine. I'm doing well, I'll tell you if I need to stop. Okay, if you shout- Don't over-egg it. I wish I hadn't used the phrase over-egg. Stop it, stop it, just do the email. Eggs. Jeff Llewellyn, greetings from the colonists, Sydney, Australia here, long time listener, first time emergency mailer.

On my way to work just now, I was listening to Mark reviewing The Trouble with Jessica. All the mentions of the dessert dish, clafoutis, made me think, this sounds like the play God of Carnage. Yeah, I mentioned Carnage in my review. Mark then made the connection to the play and Roman Polanski's film version, Carnage himself, Great Minds Think Alike. Indeed, there was. It was still thinking in the same way. In that film, you'll recall that Kate Winslet's character eats some peach cobbler and is violently ill all over Jodie Foster's beautiful coffee table art books.

I don't remember that. In the original play, the regurgitated dessert is not cobbler but clafoutis. Surely the repeated mentions of the trouble with Jessica are a deliberate allusion to Razor's play. What do you think? Well, it's possible. I saw the play on stage and I thought the play was great. I thought the film was terrible.

I've recently been teaching the play as a drama unit to my year 10 class at Sydney Grammar School. One evening I was invited to dinner at a friend's house and you'll never guess what she prepared for dinner. It obviously was clafoutis and I've attached a picture and she didn't use cherries. It was delicious. I did not... I did not vomit. Nobody killed themselves in the garden. The evening did not descend into carnage. Anyway, Tickety-Tongue. Love the show, Steve. Hello to Jason. That one's Nazi's everywhere.

And what's for pudding? What's for dessert? Well, sorry, that's the only food that's going to get mentioned. Very good. We mentioned it once. We got away with it. Let's talk about Amy Winehouse. Back to Black, which is a new film from Sam Taylor-Johnson, who made her name as an artist, short filmmaker. She made Death Valley from that film, Districted, which was all those kind of hardcore short films put together as kind of art project. Love You More, which

is a great short film. She made Nowhere Boy, which was a biopic of a musician. She had a tough time with Fifty Shades because she was having to deal with the fact that the author was so all over the thing. Many little pieces which didn't work for me. Anyway, this, I think, back to black, is her best feature since Nowhere Boy, which is a sort of, perhaps damning with faint praise. Written by Matt Greenhouse, who wrote Nowhere Boy before that control, he also wrote Films stars don't die Liverpool. It is the story of the sadly short life of Amy Winehouse, a story of course previously told in Asif

Kapadia's doc, Amy. And I'm sorry, there's just no way of getting around this. In the same way that when One Love came out, we talked immediately about the documentary about Bob Marley. In the same way that One Dance with Somebody came out, we talked about the documentaries about Whitney Houston. These are all in sort of relatively recent past. When Asif Khaibadia was on the show talking about his Amy Dock, he described her songwriting as confessional with punchlines. I think it might have been her line, but I heard it from him. I think his film really captured that. This doesn't. It lacks. Its punchlines lack punch. What it does have is a frankly dynamite central term from Marisa Bella who Screen International named last year as a star of the future and on the strength of this it's really hard to, yes,

not only does she get the mannerisms, the walk, the attitude, but she's uncannily on point with the voice. Now I've read some people saying, well, you know, the world is full of people who can do Amy Whitehouse impressions. Is it? The world is full of people who do karaoke. It's not really the same. Anyway, here's a clip. This is actually the trailer. It's a bit, it's a clip of the trailer. I don't write songs to be famous. I write songs because I don't know what I'd do if I didn't. I want people to hear my voice and just forget their troubles. You got to remember, I ain't no Spice Girl. So you saw in that clip, Leslie Manville as her nan, it's a really, really good performance.

Now, having said there is no way you can't compare it to the documentary, I'm just going to do this because you'll remember that Mitch Winehouse thought that the way in which he came across in Asif Kapadia's documentary was not flattering. He said that he said that he has his words have been re-edited. I think he called the filmmakers a disgrace who were trying to portray me in the worst possible light. Here Mitch is played by Eddie Marzan. And Eddie Marzan, if you've ever heard Eddie Marzan talking about his craft, his whole

thing is he tries to find the good and the humanity in people. And in the way in which Mitch Winehouse is presented in this film, it is a much, much more sympathetic portrayal. Eddie Marzan is a very, very good actor, but he has this whole thing about not simplifying characters and he basically does the best possible light as opposed to the worst possible light. Obviously, there are times when the drama has many chubby moments. I mean, the chubbiest of the chubby moments is when she says to him, do I need to go to rehab? And he says, I think you'll be all right. Not as a bit, but you know, it's like, and Eddie Marzan gets away with it because he's a really brilliant actor. As Blakefield is civil, you

have Jack O'Connell, who is much more sympathetic than he comes across in the documentary. And watching the doc, you do wonder what on earth Amy Winehouse saw in this person who does not come out of the doc well at all. I mean, really, really doesn't. What the filmmaker said here was in order to do this, you have to get some sense of why it was that Amy Winehouse was so devoted to him. And as played by Jack O'Connell,

he has laddie charm. I mean, he's difficult and destructive and takes hard drugs, but he is a more charming presence, and then you have Leslie Manville. So really what this comes down to is, how much do you want to see a film that is a hard, warts and all version of a story that we think we know? How much do you want to see what they've effectively done, which is a fairy tale,

which is a love story? The way that the filmmakers have taken this is to say, look, it's a love story. If it's going to be a love story, you have to understand why these people might fall in love, even when everything is completely falling apart. I think the film has problems. I mean, I'm a fan of rock biopics. If we started throwing pop biopics out of the window because they get things factually

wrong, well, we're going to start with the Buddy Holly story, which has left out a whole guitarist because of rights issues. And we're going to have to lose one love because it takes all, you know, it's just, that's not what they're there for. This is a fairy tale about a love story in a chaotic, destructive, toxic environment. Whether you think or not that Amy Winehouse's story should be told in that way, and they've said, the filmmakers have said, look, this is, we're telling it from the, from her point of view, because she did, you know, she was completely, you know, in love with this guy. That's a decision which everybody's going to have to make individually. I have seen some, I think, foolish one-star reviews,

which have just taken objection to the thing. It's not a one-star film. It's a three-star film. There are things in it, including its central performance, which is really, really good. Sam Taylor-Johnson does know how to make a movie. I think, as I said, I think this is her best work since Nowhere Boy. I think it is problematic, but then in the same way as we just said about Civil War. If you want a film that's polemical and in-your-face polemical and says, those people are Republicans and those people are Democrats, that's not what you're going to get.

I do think this is one of the things in which there isn't a right answer. Which version of this story do you want? Do you want the Asif Kapadia, which I thought was actually a brilliant documentary, or do you want the fairy tale love story, which incidentally has got a lot of alcoholism, A-list drug-taking, terrible things happening. It doesn't soft pedal those. So I don't know what the answer is, I just think that's what has to be said. This is the fairy tale version, and if that's what you want, then it does that quite well, largely because it's got a performance at the centre that can carry it.

And she sings her own? Yeah, her voice is really kind of pretty good. I mean, again, it comes down to, I've read a couple of things, people said, oh, you oh, people are saying she doesn't sing like Amy. Gary Boosey played and sang all his own Buddy Holly songs on the Buddy Holly story. In fact, there's an album of Gary Boosey doing the thing, and it's a great performance. It's not quite Buddy Holly, doesn't matter.

When Joachim Phoenix did walk the line, it's not quite Johnny Cash, it's his version of Johnny Cash. Reese Witherspoon, you know, it's, yeah, I think that a lot of the responses to this are powered by prejudice. And I understand the prejudice, you know, people go, this is the story that I want and that's the story. How dare you make that person who I think is terrible seem sympathetic. And Thibaut Burnett did the tutoring of Wacken Phoenix.

Yeah, he did. And that's why I think one of the reasons why the music from that movie is so great. And the score for this is Nick Haven Moranellis. So, you know, great composers. That's the end of take one. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Lily, Gully, Vicky, Zaki, Matty, Bethy. The producer was

Jem, the redactor was Simon Poole. Mark, what is your film of the week? Civil War. Thank you very much indeed for listening. Take two has already landed. We'll see you soon.