Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Live Christmas Spectacular with Nia DaCosta and Jason Isaacs

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

Some exciting news—The Take is now on Patreon: www.patreon.com/kermodeandmayo. Become a Vanguardista or an Ultra Vanguardista to get video episodes of Take Two every week, plus member‑only chat rooms, polls and submissions to influence the show, behind‑the‑scenes photos and videos, the monthly Redactor’s Roundup newsletter, and access to a new fortnightly LIVE show—a raucous, unfiltered lunchtime special with the Good Doctors, new features, and live chat so you can heckle, vote, and have your questions read out in real time. To those of you who joined us for our Live Christmas Spectacular at the Prince Edward Theatre in London’s West End last weekend—thank you for being a fabulous audience and we hope you had as much festive film buff fun as we did. To those of you who couldn’t be there—fear not! This week’s Take brings it directly to your ears. Recorded live from the auditorium, it’s stuffed full of more goodies than your Christmas stocking, including interviews with Nia DaCosta on next year’s 28 Years Later sequel The Bone Temple, and Jason Isaacs beamed to us chatting about whatever he was doing in a massive conference centre in New Orleans... Plus reviews of some brand new films you can watch in cinemas and at home this holiday: Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery—the latest instalment in the whodunnit franchise that’s fast becoming a Christmastime screen staple, starring the fabulously accented Daniel Craig as detective Benoit Blanc and Josh O’Connor as a priest at the centre of the case—alongside the stellar ensemble cast we’ve come to expect from Knives Out. Plus we’ve got Goodbye June—the directorial debut from Kate Winslet that sees a dysfunctional family thrown together when their matriarch falls gravely ill at Christmas. The ensemble cast includes Helen Mirren, Toni Colette, Johnny Flynn, Timothy Spall, and Andrea Riseborough, alongside Winslet herself—and its screenplay was penned by her son Joe Anders. Kate Winslet will be joining us for an extended Christmas special interview on the Take—so you’ll hear a little sneak peek of that too. And finally, on a less festive note we’ve got Lurker—a fame and fandom psychodrama about a retail worker who becomes part of a pop star’s inner circle. We’ve got a Christmas cracker edition of the Laughter Lift too (oh you lucky things). Enjoy it, and we hope to see some more of your fabulous faces in the audience next year! Timecodes (for Vanguardistas listening ad-free) Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery review: 11:19 Nia DaCosta Interview: 19:27 Christmas Cracker Laughter Lift: 42:22 Lurker review: p1 47’17 Jason Isaacs interview: 48:50 Lurker review pt 2: 1:00:53 Goodbye June review: 01:05:35 You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo Please take our survey and help shape the future of our show: https://www.kermodeandmayo.com/survey EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! A Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To advertise on this show contact: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Mooby, the global film company that champions great cinema. From iconic directors to emerging otters, there is always something new to discover. With Mooby, each and every film is hand-selected so you can explore the best of cinema. This festive season, you can find a collection of film streaming on Moobie in the UK that explore the connections between food and cinema. Including streaming now on Moobie, Phantom Thread. If you've been to the cinema and you've seen one back, battle after another and you think, wow, that Paul Thomas Anderson, he can really direct. Then check

out Phantom Thread. Also, the fantastic performance by Daniel Day Lewis and Vicky Creeps and a brilliant Leslie Manville with an amazing score by Johnny Greenwood, which is one of my favorite scores of recent years. The whole film is an absolute miracle. Just don't eat the mushrooms. You can try Mooby free for 30 days at Mooby.com slash Kermode and Mayo. That's Mubi.com slash Kermode and Mayo for a whole month of great cinema for free. Mark, I was just wondering, you know, as I do, how do you keep your internet connection, Elfi, this Christmas? Boomtish.

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you'll get an extra form for free on the two-year plan and it's risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee. Check the link in the description. Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguard Easter and get an extra episode every Thursday. Including bonus reviews. Extra viewing suggestions. Viewing recommendations at home and in cinemas.

Plus your film and non-film questions answered as best we can in questions, Schmessians. You can get all that extra stuff via Apple Podcasts or head to extra takes.com for non-fruit-related devices. There's never been a better time to become a Vanguard Easter. Free offer, now available, wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already a Vanguard Easter, we salute you. Hello, good afternoon. How are you? Or, as we say around these parts, and at these times,

wasail, wossail, wossail. what is actually ale. So, now Mark, do you know what the traditional reply is if someone says wasail? Yes, it's, is it ale well or well ale? No, it's, does anyone know what you, if someone says wassail, what do you say back? No one knows, you say drink hail. Drink hail, there were, ale well, I was close. No, you weren't.

Okay, so if I say wassail, you say I say Wasail you say Drink well And when do you wassail mark Now No It's supposed to be

For 12th night For 12th night Why are you doing it now And when is 12th night 12th night? 12 nights after Christmas When would that be January the

Fourth Fifth It's January the 5th in the evening Is wassail evening That's when you go was sailing. Okay. This has become terribly confrontational very early on. Unless, of course, you are a traditionalist, in which case you only wasail on what is known as old 12y. And when would that be? Old 12th night? No, it's the 17th of January. Okay. Because it's the Gregorian

calendar which messed it up in 1752. None of this is in the script. No, no, no. That's true. But anyway, Washael? This is a great tradition which we've brought back because it's Christmas and all that. Anyway, you're very welcome to the show. Later on, Mark is going to be reviewing some films, for example.

Oh, thank heavens. We're back to the stuff I know about. Yes, hello everybody. Welcome to this film review show. So old-fashioned and traditionalist. We have reviews of a wide range of movies, Simon Mayo, including Lurker, which is a psychological thriller, Good by June, which is the feature directorial debut by Kate Winslet, who is also going to be our special guest on the 23rd of December for an hour-long special.

How about that? And Knives Out, Wake Up Dead Man, which some of you may have seen in cinemas, but it's coming to Netflix on the 12th. Also, much to everyone's delight, the Christmas Cracker Laughter Lift edition in which you can... Did you detect mockery? I think Detect is an understatement. In which you can win a goodie bag and this Christmas themed sprout.

Okay? There is a lot of money that's gone into this podcast, don't you think? This is available. Incidentally, Simon, what's that? This... Oh, yes. This is the Wittent Entertainment Peace Prize. Yes.

As you can see, it's a piece of old tat which will give to any randomer, basically, who looks as though they might not really deserve it very much. Has anyone created any piece recently? Well done. Well, there we are. There's the winner. Marvelous. Who was that who shouted, yeah? Come down. Right, you've won it. That's it. Let's do it.

Come down. There are consequences for calling things out in live shows. And so here we are at the inaugural presentation of the Wittertainment Peace Prize, chosen by a panel of no one at all, and given to some complete randomer from the audience. What's your name? Kerry. Kerry. Congratulations.

Congratulations. It's Kerry. She's won the inaugural Wittertainment Peace Prize for doing it. for doing more for peace than some other people who have recently won peace prizes. Also, greatest Christmas movie scene of all time as voted for by you.

Jason Isaac's live on a Zoom from New Orleans. Is that actually going to happen? Because it is a genuinely live thing. What are the chances of a signal coming out of a conference centre? Is it a Star Trek conference? Was that the Peace Prize winner, causing trouble already? Starting conflict?

I've got no idea what they're saying. Anyway, so that's all happening. And when Jason turns up, we just have to say, hello, Jeremy Irons. Yeah, that'll be fine. And he'll be fine. Also, we're thrilled to have Nia D'Ecosta talking about Bone Temple, the new 28 years later.

She's going to be on this stage right here. So also, all right, a little bit of housekeeping. I know the redacted did some at the beginning, but it's a traditional thing. at this show to say hello to Ed Freshwater and so we join him with a Smelly Pants Wee okay, after three Smelly Pants Wee

Melan Farmers I love the fact that you went after three and then didn't count to three Okay We'll try again shall we You're the musician, count us in Okay, one two three Smelly Pants Wee Melan Farmers

Is that how it goes? I think that's right That's the Bruce Willis version Okay, and we've got an email from James in sometimes sunny southeast London With the night's drawing in, here's a small gift from the good lady Yiddish shouter Erin' doors to mark the festive season. So here we go, this is what we get. Now, that wasn't very different. to what we normally have.

What did she say? Can we play it again? Okay. Christmas Schmismis. Christmas? That doesn't really work, does it? What, you're applying that questions Schmesters did? Okay, that's a very good point.

James, thank you very much indeed, and our best to the good lady Yiddish shouter are indoors. We got an email a couple of weeks ago from Goodion Helgeson, who was travelling here from Iceland just for the show. Goodion, did you make it? Okay, okay. I'm not sure if everyone heard that. I think they probably did. We had a little sad voice saying, yes, I did. When did you arrive? When did you arrive, Goodion?

Thursday, I think he said. And are you planning to raid the off-licence while you're here? It's funny if you're close to him. An email here from Mark. B.A. N.Q.H. winner of the Filey Butlin's Young Artist Competition, 1981. Dear John and Hans, and of course the eye-bleedingly astonishing production team, which I think they've just added in. Mark often mentions that great films give back to you whatever it is you bring

to them. And when I sit in the dress circle of the Prince Edward Theatre on Sunday the 7th, I will be testing that same theory out for a live Christmas podcast. Are you here, Mark? Yes. Okay. As a very long-term listener, the wittering between the two of you has accompanied dog walks, rides, journeys, holidays, good times and bad, and your warm, malefluous tones have become as much part of the good lady F.E. College manager, her indoors and I's life together that neither of us can imagine a day when the show will end. I've cried at two films in my life, E.T. when he wakes up, and as a seven-year-old, Charlotte's Webb, when the inevitable happens. But the warmth, sincerity and shared life experiences of the Wintertainment family has had me crying

more times than I care to remember, and that's from Mark. Thank you, Mark, and thank you for coming down today. Claire Tedstone writes, my name is Claire, and I will be coming to your live Christmas movie Spectacular on the 7th of December, and I hope you don't mind me asking, but I have a request. Are you here, Claire?

Yes. Okay. Do you want me to read this out? Okay. Well done for checking that beforehand. I will be attending the show with my husband, Dan Pearson, to celebrate his 40th birthday. Dan has been amazing throughout a tricky few years.

He stepped up to take care of our son, who is now nearly eight, and is the most wonderful dad. Dan and I are heading to New York the day after this show as part of his birthday celebrations. Wow. We're excited to visit some of the filming locations that we've become so familiar with through film and TV. I would not have been able to even contemplate being well enough to travel to New York if it hadn't been for Dan's support and care. He is a very special person, and I would love to do something nice for him as a thank you for everything he does. might you be able to give him a shout at during the show? So I think we should definitely do this.

Dan, are you here? Was that a yes? Okay, so Claire, stand up? There you go. Okay, Dan, stand up. All right, okay. Mark will now lead us in a race to go. Yeah. Mark will now lead us in a rendition of a well-known song.

Dan, you stay standing up. Happy birthday in C. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear Dan. so young, happy birthday to you. Beautiful. Have a lovely time in New York?

There's so many people here now thinking, I hope no one wrote in about me. Did you write in about me? Did you write in about me? Okay, move a review time. How about doing one of those? Because you do those quite well, I think. Yeah, but then I have to just do the shift

of moving the thing onto me lap, and I thought you were going to waffle for a little bit more. No, I've done it. No, I know. I heard most of it. It was all very good. Wake up, Dead Man. Yeah, I know.

I'm getting there. Seriously. Is that the first one? Yep. Because my script didn't have that as the first one, but that's all right. Okay, fine. So, how many of you have seen... It's the first one.

Okay. Just showing everyone the script. So in the script, this was Knives Out, Colon, Wake Up, Dead Man. It's not. It's Wake Up, Dead Man. a Knives-Out mystery, which is a crucial difference. Now, this has been in cinemas for a week or so, but it's coming to Netflix on The 12th.

How many of you have seen this? And how many of you thought was Fab? Actually, that's pretty much the same amount that said that they've seen it. So this is the third in the Ryan Johnson series, which I think you and I both enjoyed the first two very much. This follows on from Glass Onion, which kind of, you know, expanded the palette a little bit more.

but essentially it's the same setup as before in that it's Ryan Johnson doing a modern who done it which throws back to kind of Agatha Christie on the one hand but also has a kind of very modern setting particularly star-studied cast Josh O'Connor Glenn Close Josh Brolin, Milakunis, Jeremy Renner, Kerry Washington, Andrew Scott, Kaylee Sponey, Darrell McCormick, Thomas Hayden Church, Uncle Tom Cobbly and all at absolutely extraordinary castes

So the story is Josh O'Connor is this priest who has been sent to a new church in upstate New York. He used to be a boxman. He's been sent there because he punched out a deacon. So he's been sent to this kind of backwater. When he gets there, he immediately locks horns with the resident preacher who has got this kind of really outspoken manner to him, says outrageous things, has alienated loads of people, but has around him a hardcore of people who were fiercely devoted to him. Then at a key moment in the narrative,

he's doing a sermon, and the whole congregation see him walk into an enclosed room, and the next thing is he's dead in the enclosed room with a demon's head knife stabbed into his back. So it's the perfect mystery. How did this happen? Everybody saw him go in alone, and now he's dead. Here's a bit of the trailer.

You're the only one on stage with the market. John Sr. at the time of his killing. You're the only one at that church who hated his guts. This spirit really moved him today, huh? So tell me. What the hell happened? Everyone thinks I did it. I didn't do it.

This goes way beyond normal police world. This is something you and I have not experienced. impossible crime. This case is solvable, right? I'm incapable of not solving a crime. Oh, you'll see. It's fun. The fantastic Daniel Craig doing Benoit Blanc... I think his accent is getting more outlandish.

I think he's really kind of relaxing into... Because when he first, when he did the very first film, he said that he was experimenting with that accent, and there was a kind of, okay, this is what you're going to do all the way through the film, and he's lent into it more and more. So the whole setup is, there appears to be one prime suspect but at the beginning says you think I did it

I absolutely didn't but then everybody else has some kind of motivation now I don't know about you but I love the Knives Out movies I love the fact that it's a kind of old-fashioned who done it but I also love the fact that they've got very modern themes in the case of Glass Onion there was a lot of stuff about tech bros

and millionaires and Elon Musk and all that sort of thing in the case of this there's an awful lot about corrupt religion and lunatic devotion to people who are completely incapable of rational thought but all that stuff that's kind of because Ryan Johnson is quite sort of politically satirical but it's all

also really good fun this is this leans less into broad comedy than some of the others have because some of the others have had kind of you know really many laugh out loud moments I mean this builds up to the kind of weirdest reincarnation of the resurrection you can possibly imagine it's kind of dark it's kind of gothic

but it's done with such relish and honestly I could happily have Ryan Johnson make one of these every year for the next five years because there is something about the fact that they play particularly well at Christmas obviously this is a big thing for Netflix as a Christmas release because it's got everything there's nothing in there

no one's going to come away from it feeling short change actually the plot becomes more and more convoluted and complex and tied up but at the same time it's just really really good fun and I think they're great I mean I know a couple of people have been a bit sniffy about well it's you know it's just the third in that series and but the thing is the reason that series exists is because nobody else is making these kind of movies nobody else is making those kind of old-fashioned who done it and because Ryan Johnson is such a good writer when you get to the reveal

it's not like you know there's that thing in who done it's when there's a group of people there's like seven people in a room and you're trying to figure out which one did it and then at the very last moment, somebody says, oh, the postman turned up. You've never been mentioned before and it was him. In the case of this, when the reveals happen, they're always kind of very complicated, but they're always very satisfying. Who did it? The postman. Oh, okay. That just turns up at the end. Did I ever tell you, my, we, for one of my children's birthdays, child one wanted to go to see the mouse trap, you know, which is the longest running play like in forever and so we went and child two who's younger than child one wasn't particularly

interested in going to see the mousetrap because it sounded like what i want to want to see the mouse trap for and uh anyway so we sat there and the mousetrap started and the mousetrap got like one of the most famous twists in the history of modern theater anyway child two is sitting there watching the thing and they get to the moment in the mouse trap when the guy says and i put it to you that the murderer was dingy bong and there was silence and you heard child two went, no! They would love that reaction, though. So in the mousetrap, the murder is dingy bong?

Dingy bong, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who killed the postman, yeah. That's an incredible twist which you have now spoiled. Anyway, knives out, wake up dead man is really terrific. The whole resurrection thing is in the wake up dead man and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But so I suppose technically it's more of an Easter movie, but it's a Christmas staple. Yeah, it's kind of the resurrection and the... Yes.

Is in the film? Yeah, well, it's the Good Friday sermon, and he's killed. And then obviously, in terms of the theology, that's leading up to a resurrection. Okay. But I'm not going to spoil the plot any more than that. All right. Thank you very much. So you're welcome.

And everyone who said they'd seen it, did Mark get that right? Yes, he did, yes. It's almost as if I've been doing this professionally for 35 years. Now, Simon, if our beloved redactor would be offered a mind-blanker. new job and abandon us tomorrow. Hard to imagine, but go on. We would be on the lookout for a replacement. I mean, surely he's irreplaceable.

He is, but that aside, for candidates who match what we're looking for, elite level Christmas cracker joke writing, a track record of working with top talent. And we do mean top. We'd be wise to try indeed sponsored jobs. They help you stand out and hire quality candidates who can drive the results you need.

Spend more time interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. now with Indeed sponsored jobs. And listeners of this show will get a £100 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves at Indeed.com slash Kermode Mayo. Just go to Indeed.com slash Kermode Mayo right now

and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this here podcast. Indeed.com slash Kermode Mayo. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, do it the right way with Indeed. We get to our first guest time and our first guest is a filmmaker who at the age of 34 became the youngest director

that's a very unfortunate time it kind of gives the game away and the first African-American woman to helm a Marvel Cinematic Universe film with the Marvels her critically acclaimed feature film debut Little Woods won the Nora Ephron Award at the Tribeca Film Festival. In 2021, she collaborated with filmmaker Jordan Peel

for a commercially and critically successful reboot of Candyman. She is now directed, as you can see on the screen. 28 years later, the Bone Temple, about which we have many questions. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome, near de Costa. Oh, wow. Wait, oh man. What do you think?

I wish I had my phones. Or you can just send me the picture and I can send it to Rayfe. Is there a Christmas special of the 28 years later franchise, do you think? Honestly, now I wish I made a Christmas movie. Like Christmas, infected, Rafe.

What's not to like? Exactly. Thank you so much for coming and being a part of our show. Thanks for having me. This is actually, like, so crazy, also. We talked about the franchise a lot. And the last film, which was only like a few months ago, is still very fresh in a lot of people's minds.

And we knew them, because Danny came onto the show, Jodie Come up, and explained how these films were done back to back. And they weren't sure about the third, but they knew about the two because you filmed them together. Just explain how that worked and how you came on board and what it was like inheriting and then also putting your own mark onto the film franchise. Yeah, basically, I, God, how did I come on to it?

My agent called me and was like, I know you're busy, but they're making 28 years later trilogy and it's happening and they're looking for a director for the second film. And I was like, that's bizarre. Why isn't Danny just do all of them? And he was like, I don't know, he doesn't want to. I was like, okay. And then the next day, Alex Garland called me and was like,

so we're making the movies. They're happening. We're looking for a director for the third. So the same information just in the Alex Garland sort of, you know, intense way of delivering it. And long as short, I just went in and talked to them and said, you know, I love this script and I love this franchise and I love you guys

and I'm really excited at the idea of doing it if I can do it my own way and the expectation is not that I make like a Danny Boyle movie because that would be boring for everyone involved. And they really were into that. They really, I think, thought that actually is the best way to make the second film before Danny comes back to the third. So yeah.

And they were already going, so they were like prepping Danny's already, and then it was three weeks between his shoot, rapping and my shoot starting. So does that mean you're on set watching the first? No, I, well, I was so, when I heard about this film, I was in my director's cut for my film that just came out last month. Hedda, yeah. Which is a fantastic elapsation of Heda Garbler,

and it's a really, really smart, sharp, funny film, and very dark and very fat. Thank you so much. Yeah, it was like a return, that was like a return to my dark, freaky self, and then this was just a continuation of my dark freaky brain and a world. So that was really fun. But yeah, I was in post, so I wasn't trying to do anything. I was like, I need a break.

I'm so tired. And then I read the scripts and just thought they were fantastic. And you said that Danny Boyle is going. So when we interviewed Danny Boyle for the first one, he said, okay, the way it's working is we've done the first two and the third will happen depending on how the first two went. but it sounds to me like the third one is happening when you said...

Oh, yeah. I mean, if I ran a studio, I would just... I will say I don't have any official news. But I don't know. I just think these two movies are great. I like the one I made, I love a lot, and I just can't see them not doing a third. Like, especially where my film ends,

you're really going to want to see some of these people again in the third film. Okay. Before we go any further, let's just play a little bit from the trailer so we get a flavor. Trying to predict the future is a discouraging and hazardous occupation. In fact, it may not even exist at all. Oh, what is this? I cannot see. Oh, I am dead.

none can many of the things we take for granted will one day pass away completely I open the door of heaven and hell when that time comes men will no longer communicate we may have diseases

and barbarism I think that's worth a round of applause definitely man let's just let that run we just want to watch that film now I know honestly I love the trailer a lot and the Sony marketing team is amazing

because usually with trailers I'm like giving extensive like notes and things but I was just like I love it put it up put on the internet so introduce us to to where we are so with this particular story and where you take it,

tease us even more than the trailer. So the first film, if you've seen it, ends with our main character, Spike, meeting this group of, who we call the Jimmy's. They're basically a cult surrounding this one man, Jimmy Crystal, Sir Lord Jimmy Crystal.

And my film picks up pretty soon after they've all met, and we realize that the Jimmy's are not so great, and maybe Spike is in a bit of a situation now that he's in, of this group. And while that's happening and Spike's trying to figure out how to get away from them, we have Kelson discovering that his pal Sampson might have some more going on than meets the eye. Can I say that when you say in this film we discover that the jimmies aren't

so great, believe me, in the last five minutes of the film when there was a bunch of people dressed as Jimmy Saville, we didn't think any of them were going to turn out to be great. it presented the last five minutes of that film I've never had this issue before because obviously we never talk about the endings of movies but the tonal change that happened in the last few minutes of the last film was so extraordinary that I think I was the first person to see it in our team

and I needed to talk about it with someone because you will not believe what just happened so can you just because it's a very British film really I think and the Jimmy Saville stuff is particularly British, but can you just explain why the jimmies are there? Given that, Jimmy Saville is famously one of the worst sex offenders this country has ever had. His victims are still with us, still traumatized by what he did. Does that make good art?

You know, why have the jimmies become acceptable in your film? Well, you'll see they're certainly not. acceptable. They're very, um, basically I think Alex was like, this character, Jamie Crystal is evil. This is Alex Garland, who wrote, Alex Carlin, yes. Um, this character Jimmy Crystal is evil. He's just, I can't curse on this, can I? But he's just very evil. And, um, and when thinking about, like, not just what are they going to look like, what are we projecting, it was thinking about when the world as they knew it, that we knew it ended. And so that was, I think, pre-9-11, actually. Um, so in 2000, like summer 2001.

And at that time, and, you know, it's all pre-me-2, pre, like, all these reckonings that have happened. And Jimmy, christle, as a character, basically, you know, in the beginning of the first film, you see he's, I think, eight or ten, when, I think he's eight, when his world kind of falls apart, and he starts to come up with these weird ideas about what the infected are, and, you know, he's watching Telotubbies, and we do a lot of poor Telotope's trademark, because they're like, what have you done? But all these, we wanted to use this imagery of all these, at the time, joyful, childlike things and pervert them. And some of those images, like Jimmy, Jimmy, we'll fix it or whatever, have been perverted by the legacy of those people. So it was an intentional choice in terms of pop culture and prestige, but it doesn't, it's not like a, he's not in, like, we don't reference him. It's worth saying, because I saw the film, and afterwards, the film company got in touch, and they said, can you just tell us briefly what your response was? And I just sent them the back of the email which said, blimey, which is a good blimey.

But the tone of your film is very different to the little bit at the end of the first film. It's completely different. And when I was watching it, because obviously what happens is the kid gets without, I want to give stuff away because it's night out until January, but basically is inducted, to the jimmies, all of whom, you know, wear the wig, and it's a brutal induction. And it reminded me of things like Kubrick's clockwork orange, particularly in the way that they're dressing,

using sort of elements of pop culture that they're not sort of fully understanding. There's also, as I think you saw from the trailer, there's a sort of an ironic evocation of apocalypse now and, you know, Kurds and all that sort of darkness. But the thing that I was really impressed by was the film really goes for it. I mean, when it needs to be brutal,

it's brutal and it is it's like something playing out in the relics of pop culture it's like culture just stopped and these are the shattered bits that were left behind a bit of savel a bit of telitubbies and a lot of clover courage yeah no 100% you know we had a he had a tomogachi in there for a bit jelly sandals was another big one but we really wanted to take especially because um kelson like we get into his pop culture life which is a lot of a lot of durand duran he's like He loves music, that's kind of how he stays connected. And then there's a speech in the film where he talks about what he remembers from before.

And you just see how everyone's conception of their lives after the end of culture, essentially, is just modeled and distorted through time, which I found interesting. Okay, so there is a very significant use of a heavy malice in one of the film's most outlandish scenes. And without saying what it is, it looks like you were all having a lot of very dark fun

with that. It was so fun. That scene is one of my favorites. I just love it so much. We had such a great time developing it and shooting it and it was cold, it was night. It was great. This is Ray Fines as you've never seen

before. Truly never. And so much of him you see in this film. You said that this is one of the most the quote is one of the best filmmaking experiences you've ever had. Can you explain why? Because I got to do what I wanted. Because I really, I felt like I had such a clear, one is just great when you get a script that's just ready to go. That's just amazing. And Alex and

Danny are filmmakers who I've admired since I was literally 12 years old. And their work has been a huge influence on me and the way they work, like the fact that Danny does so many different kinds of films has really influenced me and how I see the possibility of having a career. But the actual making of the film with people you admire but who let you be you and do your thing and who respect you as a filmmaker like that was really great

and my cast was amazing my crew I had my crew some of them I've done three four movies with so yeah it was just it was like the ideal of like why I do this why I love filmmaking

and how I want to model my future shoots because the implication for your answer then is that on the other films which you've had fantastic success you were not allowed to do what you wanted to do. Not always, but and also I think as, you know, I made a very small independent film for my first feature, went into the studio system,

went into the biggest studio system, and then went and made my own film HEDA. And I think through that experience, it was like, okay, these are the different processes, these are how different studios work, what works for you? And I really figured out what worked for me, and I got to apply that on HEDA and on 28. Can I just clarify from this timeline?

How old were you when you saw 28 days later? Ooh, okay, so if that came out in 2001, no, came out in 2002, that was 12. You were 12? Yeah. Yeah, I guess looking back, I'm like, wow, yeah, that was, at the time it had an 18 rating here. Now it's a 15, because we've all, you know, we're like, who cares? Yeah, but you were 12. and I'm very much not religious at all actually

and she'd come home so I'd have to hide from her because I couldn't even watch like lying the witch in the wardrobe without her being like this is demonic so I don't know if I was being rebellious or what but I would literally like turn off all the lights and watch like scary things

and try not to get caught by my grandma well you know that Julia de Corno who made Titan said that one of her formative experiences was her parents left her in a room with a television that happened to have cable at the age of five she watched the Texas Chainsaw Massacre It's a good age for that, yeah

And she became a brilliant filmmaker as a result of it So clearly did Apart from the bit where someone has sex with a car Apart from that bit It's always bothered you Yeah Well, it's a standout moment I was just thinking

Jonathan Glazer He came on the show Obviously to talk about his astonishing movie But where does he fit into this story? Oh, right, so We have some mutual friends And one night So that's just the personal thing

but as a person, like, he's another filmmaker who I'm like, if I can make one film as good as any of his films, I can die happy because I think he's a genius. But we were, like, I met him at a dinner. And it was when I was trying to decide whether or not I should do 28 years later, part two at the Bone Temple. And I was like, Jonathan's going to tell me not to do it. Because I kind of wanted people to tell me, don't, don't do it.

You don't have the time. You need to rest, blah, blah, blah. And I said, hey, like, what do you think? Like, do you think I should do this movie? Like, you know, it's another franchise thing. I've done that, blah, blah, blah. And I was giving all these reasons. and he just went, well, do you like the script?

And I was like, oh, damn it, Jonathan. You're supposed to be like indie guy and say, no, don't do it. But that was the only thing that mattered. And he was right. Well, everyone here's, look, Mark has seen it. Everyone else is desperate to see it. Thank you very much, Lee, for coming down. Just before you, before we finish, can you, and without spoilers,

can you set up a moment in the film so that when we do go and see your movie, we'll go, oh, yeah, Nia told us about this bit. Is there something that you can just highlight that we should be looking out for? I'm in the movie. I'm also in the trailer, which is hilarious. Only my friends have noticed. They're like, why are you in all the trailers?

I'm like, I didn't do that. And also, when I shot it, it was supposed to be like a plate in the background of the train, but my editor was like, this will be the shot now. And I was like, okay, so that I can set up. I can also set up. Okay, sorry, I'll be serious.

No, but hang on. Before you be serious, where in the train are you? I'm sitting on the left. side of frame. Wow. My hair's red. Wow. I went through like three hair colors.

But apart from the bit with you in it. That's all I really want to talk about. No, I'm kidding. Okay, I think the core of this film is Kelson and Samson, like the emotional heart of the film. Spike's really important throughout.

But the emotional core of the film are those two characters. It's really fascinating. And then there are, when I was reading the script and also hopefully in the film, there are a couple of moments with those characters where your jaw literally drops and everything kind of gets turned on its head

and so when your jaw drops, let me know. Okay. Nia de Costa, thank you very much for joining us. Nia de Costa. Go see a film. I love the film. Nia de Costa. That was great.

That was fantastic. I know. I can't wait for you to see the film because it's, like I said, it's genuinely. blimey. And the good thing about it is that because the end of the first, have most of you now seen the first 28 years later? Okay. But that final five minutes is completely bewildering, isn't it? You just think, what on earth can this be the setup for? And tonally, it's very different.

Are there any Formula One fans in? Do you want to know who won the championship? You do or you don't? Okay, here's what he's going to do. If you don't want to hear, put your fingers in your ears and go la, la, la, la, la. Simon, who won the whatever thing was that you just said? Lando Norris. We're going to take a short break.

There are refreshments available. Mark can go to the loo now. That's okay. Well, you just like, just ahead of time, a little bit of warning. So we'll see you in 20 minutes. See you in 20 minutes time. Thank you. Canada's Wonderland is bringing the holiday magic this season with Winterfest

on select nights now through January 3rd. Step into a winter wonderland filled with millions of dazzling lights, festive shows, rides, and holiday treats. Plus, Coca-Cola is back with Canada's kindest community, celebrating acts of kindness nationwide with a chance at 100,000 donations. for the winning community and a 2026 holiday caravan stop. Learn more at canadaswunderland.com. So a couple of hellos here. Dear Grinch and Scrooge, this is from Jessica.

I'm a lucky person with a ticket to your Christmas movie spectacular. Well, that remains to be seen. Although I'm not in the grand circle, I shall be attending on my own. Would it be possible to have a shout-out from the stage for all single Vanguard Easter's? I'm sure

there will be more than two. Okay, so this is, while the lights are down, shout oi if you're a single vanguardista. Okay, that's a lovely thing. Should we put the lights up and then ask him to stand? Jessica says,

If you're a single vanguardista, and you're on the market. Okay, that's very nice. Lovely to see you all. Thank you very much for coming. You can sit down now. If you want to meet up afterwards, it's nothing to do with us. If it doesn't go well, Mark's address is 21 O'Kesia Lane, Nirvana. Nirvana?

Yeah, that's where you live. Were you aiming for Narnia, but you hit an American rock group by me? No, I think Nirvana is far closer to where you live. And Jessica says, thanks for keeping your light shining in these dark times, many thanks to the fabulous production, blah, blah, blah, blah, yeah. Okay, but Jessica, thank you very much indeed for the email. Katie says, this year we are taking our kids back to various countries I lived in as a child, Italy and Germany, as well as some of the ones later on France of the UK.

I was delighted when I realised that your Christmas show takes place about seven hours after we fly in for our big trip. sadly logistics mean that we won't be able to both make it so as the original member of the church I have precedence and my darling husband will take our tired and jet lag kids to the National History Museum oh dear heavens whilst I enjoy the show but please a big shout out to Rob for enabling me to make it yeah right you won't see him again

even if circumstances complicated even the fact that he is willing to take the hit means so much to me, and it's just so emblematic of the man he is. So excited to see you on Sunday. Are you here, Katie? Okay. Are you having a good time? How's Rob doing? Okay, you think you just haven't checked.

Okay, that's fine. Finding this correspondence, this is from Georgian, BA Psychology, US Dressage Federation, bronze and silver medalist, Yoga Alliance certified instructor. Vanguard Easter, etc. of the Equestrian Stable, the good ceramicist, him indoors and I

are using your Christmas spectacular as a great reason to spend a week in London. You'll find us appropriately in stalls D13 and D14. Thank you for coming. You're more than welcome. Are you enjoying it? Fantastic. The email continues. We're coming from California and chat GBT informs us distances the crow flies

5,368 miles, 10 hours and 30 minutes of flying. So 10,000 miles, 21 hours road trip. Can anyone be that? Has anyone traveled more than California here? Birmingham. Okay. It can feel like that. It can.

Hello to Sanjeev and Jason. Anyway, thank you. And then George Ann signs off, uncontroversially. Tickety-tonk, down with mango fascists, and assorted collaboration. Thank you for being here when we need you, but the most. So, George, Anne, thank you. You're the one living through it, so we appreciate you coming,

and we hope you enjoy being in the UK. And she adds, P.S., as far as the, I was far too young to see conversation, my grandmother took me along to see if, with Malcolm McDowell when I was 12. Wow. Traumatized, is the word. Fantastic.

You mentioned the stalls, D14Away Do you know why they called stools? In fact, yeah, why are they called the stalls? I know, I read it in the email and then you jumped over it and I thought... I was just saving time, but obviously now we're just going to extend it a little bit. Because it's actually something that I know.

So let's have a novel bit in the program when Mark says something that he knows and Simon is interested in it. I mean... Why are they called the stalls? Okay. Do you want to know why they're called the stalls? I mean, I could...

The reason they're called the stalls is that the bit you're in used to be the orchestra pit which was referred to as the orchestra stalls as in stalls because they're enclosed in a small space like the kind of thing that you would put stable a horse in. So originally that bit down there were referred to as the cheap seats

as opposed to now the very expensive seats because they are the orchestra stalls seats so they refer to the seats nearest the stage at ground level whilst those of them are more lordly disposition. We've got that. really good information. Thank you very much. I can do my Marlon Brando impression again

if you're really keen. So we have to move on for the Christmas Cracker Laughter Lift, I'm afraid. Oh yes, we do. Wasail! Tardy, I have to say. Wasail? There you go. So Blessed Relief from the redactors' terrible jokes.

We've been asking you to send in your own jokes for this feature. So Mark has to be polite and respectful. for this top class comedy which is on the way so we're going to they've been inserted into these crackers so we take it in turns okay so a one-handed pull if you see what I mean

okay he said that not me okay joke number one okay you've got you've got the joke there this can be tightened in the in the edit Mark has a it's just that piece of paper there I think. That's a hat.

No, no, there's another piece in here. Okay. I'm getting there. Do I say who it's from? Read what's on the piece of paper. All right. John Cook. What's black, white, and red all over? Huh? Yeah, no. Newspaper.

No. None falling out of a belfry and piling herself on a spike? No. What's black? Why, I'm red all over. Early Russian cinema. Hey. Very good. The snapper thing is there.

You have to grab the snapper as well. There you go. Here we go. Hey. And Mark wins again. No, no. You do. Why shall I read out? Okay.

Okay, here we go. From Gus Ferguson. Spinal tap is counted as a Christmas film in Germany. it goes up to elf. Hey. Turn it up to elf. Hey. You're almost an impression there.

I do. Okay. Okay. I got a note just before he came on saying, they're a bit cheap. It's got to make excellent radio though. From Mark in Nun Eton, what do you call a progressively slid?

Liverpool player well I don't understand this but most salad yeah well most Salar is the Liverpool player in question so he's a play on his name being Salah and salad okay I'm glad I got that one okay well you sold it really well Jason Isaac is going to be with us very shortly here we go oh I know it didn't work it has even got a banger in it It's the tension. I'm not reading that one out. Jack in Battersea, it just says Tottenham Hotspur.

Okay. I wonder why that one got included. Yeah. Arsenal did well yesterday, didn't they? Last minute. Any villa fans in tonight? One down there. Okay.

Mark didn't understand anything that went on just there. Here we go. These are the worst. This is just super rubbish. Okay, Susan Thursby. What do you get if you cross Batman with a Christmas tree? I don't know what do you get if you cross Batman with a Christmas tree? Spruce Wayne.

Okay? I have taken the opportunity of pre-empting. Pre-banging the cracker. No, that doesn't work. That doesn't. Sorry. Malik and Cows. That's the person it's from and where...

Yeah. What do you get when you toss a hand grenade into a French flooring showroom? A French what showroom? French flooring showroom. Flooring. That's what it says. Okay. I don't know.

What do you get when you toss a hand grenade into a French flooring showroom? Linolium blown apart. That works. Okay, so we're going out of sequence here because I think we've got a satellite link up. Who knows what this is going to be like? Apparently we just lost it.

So when he does turn up, we all have to say, hello Jeremy Irons. Okay, whether he'll hear this. Is he in Las Vegas? No, he's in Ohio. Okay. You kept saying he was in.

New Orleans, but then somebody said, does anyone know where Jason is? He's where? Ohio Columbus. I have it on good authority. Okay, what? Because someone shouted it. Yeah. Okay, all right. Well, we can carry on and do other stuff.

Should I do Lurker? Yeah, why don't you do Lurker while we're waiting for Jason? So Lurker, which is a film from writer-director Alex Russell, who was previously best known for writing The Bear, which you love, and I love as well, and beef. This is debut as writer-director. So the story is a twist on the kind of familiar interloper story. Essentially, the story of, you know, someone who wants someone's life

and then invagels themselves into it and then starts to steal it. Should we have a look at a trailer? Yes. There we go. So where do you find you at Meet and Greet or something? No. He came into the store I work at.

You make music? Yeah, sometimes, bro. You should come to the show tonight. This is how you envisioned it? This is the crib. You should try to make yourself useful. You want to stick around. You go camera.

You know how to press record. What's it? You're like my hero, man. You're always on Oliver's Instagram. Ollie say hi. Calling this fan Ali already? You sound like one of his bitches. You're like my best friend.

I mean that. Yo, get back! Ro! Okay, so that's a little bit of lurker, which Mark will be reviewing very shortly. But when you get a lineup to America with Jason, then you just have to go with the lineup and Jason. So I'm reliably assured that Jason Isaac is with us with us somewhere via satellite.

There he is. Hey! Hey, Jeremy Irons, how you doing? You're in the green room of a convention, and over there is Jodie Whitaker, who is too scared to say hello to me because she says he always bumbles, but loves Mark.

I said, what about Simon? She said, obviously, I love Simon, too, but it was thrown in, to be honest. And she's trying to hide from you. There's Jody Wittaker, say hi. Big crowd said hi to you. Sorry. And then it being the green room, it's a strange recollecting room,

it's the cast of Rocky Horror Show here. There's some Marvel actors. There's a bunch of strange people. But if you like, I'll take you out on the convention floor and you can see what a strange event of us. Yes. What is the event? It's a fan convention, GalaxyCon. And as well as there being gaming and cosplay and all rest of it,

there is a strange kind of cattle market I'm about to show you, which will slightly blow your mind, where actors line up to parcel out our notoriety. in increments of euros or dollars in this case. So these are all crowds waiting to see these actors in Rosario Dawson. There's my crowd. Hello. There's a bunch of people there. Hello. Hello. Morning. Morning. Morning.

Thank you. These people are all waiting. There's someone in feathers. I'll try and find some good costumes for you. How are I? Yeah. Hello. They're all queuing up to see you and you're just walking off. Yes, I know.

They'll be very soft. They've been standing there. for an hour or something already, I think. Oh, there's some Scooby-Doo, people. There you go. I'm looking for more outlandish things. Where are you? How's Christmas going there? I'm in Columbus, Ohio.

There you go. It's cold and very square. There you go, there's a small orange person. I don't know what the dress does. There we go. A family. It's a gentleman. Oh, no, sorry, you'll probably have enough of that.

I'm waiting to see someone scantily clad. There's often people, this is an environment in which people are often wearing barely anything, and you'll pretend, you have to pretend that you don't notice because it's a costume. Actually, they're naked, and I do notice. What? Why would they be doing that? Because, generally I go, what are you dressed as? They'll often say it's an anime, in some words, I don't know. They'll say, I'm not dressed as anything, which is incredibly embarrassing.

Jason, who are you dressed as? I'm dressed as a middle-aged man who can tuck himself in nowadays. There's less of us now, oh no, Mark, you and I. In the premiere, I can see there's less of you. You look very good, both of you. I want to know of this. Am I the longest-term listener?

Well, first of all, obviously, I was listening to you when we were 12, Mark, but am I the longest-term listener on the podcast? Is there anybody belonging to me in the audience, for instance? This is the bit where they sell things, sorry, and make things. How many years have you been listening? Seems like a hundred. I don't know. I noticed, I was thinking about the two of you this morning,

and I don't know if the audience agrees with me, I don't know if you remember, a few years ago, I regaled against the fact that you, Simon, were no longer grouchy with Mark. that when he was slightly more you know kind of championing slightly more esoteric

or what might say for potential films you would give him a hard time and say that's not what a late person wants to watch film in the week and slowly you're turning into each other

and you can hardly disagree anymore no I've just given up trying to correct him Jason yes is it that or as he worked his magic on you and you now like three hour long Polish documentaries with no words.

Not especially. No. He is a lot more amenable to a wider buffet of cinema, Jason, and I think that that is due to... Within limits. Simply grinding him down over the years. You've just worked in there. Has he seen Jeremy yet?

No, he hasn't seen Jeremy. I'm never going to see Jeremy. Here's the other terrifying thing I found out about Simon Mayo just a couple of hours ago. He has never seen the Shining. That's true. No, I'm not a big fan of the Shining.

No, but you've seen it. Yeah, I've seen it. It doesn't hold together, and I understand why Stephen King didn't like it, didn't want his films adapted afterwards, because it's a bit like Stanley Kubrick fell in love with some sequences, some storyboards, and the steady can, and didn't really care

about the story made sense. And the images are so good that you're just distracted from the fact that it doesn't really have a plot. Yes, no, I completely agree with you, That's not the point. The point is he hasn't seen the Shining. Okay, that point has been meant. I have two reactions there.

One, that's a shame. And two, I said it so you disagree with me. I'm trying to start an argument for Christ's sake. No, no, I think the Shining is very, very flawed. And in fact, we were just talking about why it is that Stephen King isn't crazy about it. I agree. It is a film with great sequences. Oh, look.

What's that? Tele-tubbies. No, they add some of these conventions. You do, oh, there's another man. There's a gentleman dressed in a little short one. That's fabulous question. They have this furry thing and what furries are.

Yes. Yes. Apparently that happens. There is a convention. I won't say which one because I go there sometimes, which is five days long. And there's a big atrium where all the hotels meet. And numbers of the people who go to the convention

don't book a hotel room. They just stay up all night, every night. Although it's a really family fun, beauty-friendly thing, apparently, it's back an alien and orgies, all night long in costumes, and by day three, they get quite gaming. And I take a lot of photographs to people, my arm around people, there's a lot of selfies,

and it's all I can do to not throw up a lot of the time. Jason, since we spoke this time last year, Cheaton and Chong are there. Cheech and Chong! Love Cheaton Chong, yeah. Yeah, you mentioned the salt path, I think, which you were going to, which you'd just been filming, I think. Yes.

that was around, wasn't it? Thank God there's no controversies around. No. I enjoyed the film very much. Yeah, me too. And then on television, we had Jason and Little Jason appearing. Yeah, we had that thing. I tell you what was strange about that,

White Lotus, is that I did publicity for a year. We all did. I did nothing about it. That's my cue there. Hello, kids. Hello, everybody. Say hello, you're live on a podcast in London. Hello.

There you have. My peeps. I'll be back in a minute. Sorry. Yes, and so I did publicity for a year, which was nice. It's a great show. I mean, it's a great show.

I've seen such fantastic writer. But it's not my day job. And so when that ended, I'd be knocking off films as fast as I could. And I've just done three in a row, and I've gone to wait a bit. I'm doing a vampire film in January. I've always wanted to be a vampire.

And it's nice to get back to work, to be honest with you. I'm sick at being. I can start of my own voice. Are you playing a vampire in the vampire film, or a vampire hunter? I am, well, maybe, it should be spoilers. I am playing a vampire in, oh God,

I'm going to get fired for it, start filming. Excellent. I've just done three really interesting films back to back. I actually worked with two people I've heard you talk about, or one, Chase Infinity. Oh, yeah, who's fantastic. The film star name, that is. Who's also fantastic.

Yeah, yeah. By God, if that's your name, you're not going to become a shot of severe, are you? Her and Chris Briddley, who has been, the summer I turned pretty, who I didn't know, but my kids did know. And the two of them together

there's just kind of white heat of hormone, hormonal, magnetic attraction. Just shocking. But I did a film in Texas with Ghegel Luna and Taylor Kitch, who I'm, oh my, I'm just, and I'm name-dropping out.

I just had a fabulous time last done films back-to-back. and remembered why I love my job and how telling stories is more interesting than talking about yourself. You're getting the very definition of a ripple of applause here for that. I love a mild ripple.

Can you send our very best wishes to Jody even though she was only wanted to talk to Mark? She's honestly terrified. I'll just fumble and talk nonsense. You know what's weird about? What's Billy Piper? It's one of the great things about this is you have no idea

that you're going to bump into. So Mike Tyson was in the room once in this green room. I ended up talking to Buzz Aldrin. And then members of... I was talking to some guy once, and he was talking about, you know, I like you in a patron or something. I said, I'm so sorry, I don't know what you're from,

what you do. Obviously, you're famous. I can see, you're famous. He goes, seriously? He goes, you know, no, I am? So then I said, okay. I said, well, who are you? He goes, he looks a little shoulder.

He went, ESB. and I go, ESB, what the Alan Sugar made the dishes for? Like, the big Skybrooketing. I went, really? But Sky? He goes, no. That's true, boys.

I said, no, right. You're in a boy band? And he went, do you have a boy band, man? We were a group, man. We won, like, 12 Grammys, okay? We sold 20 million records. And I went, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I don't know what was your biggest hit?

He goes, I can sing if we're here. And I went, cool, just whisper it. He went, back street, and I went, oh, yeah, no, I know that, I know that, that's great. And he was sitting with his friend, and I said, you in his room?

He goes, me? Is that in bathroom, boys? Are you shh-me? And I said, I'm sorry, honestly, I just watched tennis and car tricks on YouTube. I'm so sorry. You must be someone, obviously, I see all the crowds,

and he said, I was, you're sick. So I called on, you were in a sink. He said, He said, no, I was in sync. I'm like, just someone stole all the vowels from this sentence. And I said, he said, in sync. And I went, oh, no, okay, no, instinct, that is a boy band.

He goes, we know how to boy do that. We saw 40 million records. I'm sorry. Anyway, the point being, you've no idea who's going to be in the room. No. All right. Jason, when do you fly back? when you get back here?

December the 16th, I go straight to a series of charity carol concerts and Great Old Street parties. It's Christmas time for actors, and thank God we'd ask to sprinkle our fame in ways that it's slightly more productive than selling it off there. So December 16th, and it's back-to-back charity carol concerts. If you see me anywhere, come and give some money. All right. Jason Isaacs, thank you so much.

Always a pleasure. Merry Christmas. Happy Christmas to you. Merry Christmas to everybody there. It's lovely to see you. Thanks, Jason. Really appreciate it. Bye.

See you soon. I don't think we've ever done an interview in which we have said less. Now, where the guest has sworn more. There'll be a lot of birds' songs. So the birdsong in there was entertaining, I think. But there's some fantastic stories. And the thing is, he's wonderfully indiscreet. Wonderfully indiscreet.

As I think you finally realize. but anyway I hope he doesn't get dropped from that Dracula film that would be most disappointing anyway so thanks to Jason who will carry on support the pod and we will carry on supporting him of course so we saw the clip of Lurker you set the film up and which you've all forgotten now but anyway so as I was saying so basically the two main characters it's Theodore Pellarine is Matthew and Archimedequay who was in Saltburn and Midsomer is Ollie this kind of star. And what happens is the star goes into this shop where he meets Matthew, who lives

with his grandmother and doesn't really appear to have much social life. And he's a superfan. But he pretends not to be a fan. Oh, are you a musician? I didn't know. Here's some of the music that I like. Anyway, he inveigles himself into his friendship. He inveigles himself into the backstage. And the next thing is, he's being invited in, oh, this is my new best friend. This is Matty. He's so great. He takes videos, blah, blah, blah. And Ollie is surrounded by this kind of entourage of hangers on, all of whom have got a kind of hierarchy in the court of his stardom. And Matty sort of tries to work his way up through it, but every time he does, he's sort of, because every position that he could take, he's usurping, but he gradually invagels

his way into the life of this rock star. And then at some point, as always happens in these stories, there comes a point when he's either going to be cast out or he has to do something to prevent that happening. Now, the sort of ubertext for all of this is the talented Mr. Ripley, which is the Patricia Highsmith story, which was filmed by Anthony Mangela, obviously filmed before that as Plencelay, and then more recently it was on Netflix as Ripley, which was really, really good, with Andrew Scott, who we saw in the clip. Who's in Wake Up Dead Man.

And the thing with these stories is they work best when things are on the cusp of awkwardness, when the person who, I mean, the very fact that the film is called Lurker, which is not quite a stalker. A lurker is somebody who's just on the periphery, somebody who's not quite in, not quite out, but isn't going away. And I think the thing that makes this film really good,

quite apart from fact that it's got two very good performances because you do believe both of them, is that it understands that at the heart of any of these stories is that there's a kind of two sides of the same coin thing going on. On the one hand, there's Matty who sees this thing that he wants and he's willing to kind of do anything to inveigle his way into that world. And of course, in the case of the talented Mr. Ripley,

we all know how that ends. In the case of this, it's more understated. But the key thing is that Olly, who's this pop story, who's kind of holding court, treats him, sort of bullies him and pushes him around and behaves really badly. And so it's not like there's a sympathetic character who gets his life stolen from him.

It's like there are two unsympathetic characters. both of whom, on the one hand, are narcissistic and desperately self-serving. And on the other hand, are really, really deeply insecure. And I think the thing the film gets right is it's that sense of insecurity and paranoia that it does really well. And having seen quite, I mean, you know, if you think about things like single white female, single white female got brought up in relation to this, you know, it's a story in which Bridget Fonda has an apartment.

It's rented by Jennifer Jason Lee. Jennifer Jason Lee moves in, starts copying her clothes, starts copying her hairstiles, and the next thing is she's sort of stealing her life. In the case of this, it's all very believably done. On the one hand, you do believe that he could actually be a pop star, but you also believe that this strange guy

who's pretending not to be a fan, but clearly is a devoted fan, has inveigled himself into the inner circle by being kind of wide-eyed and apparently innocent. And also, the film never makes any leaps that you think, okay, that's it. That's the point in which I don't buy the story anymore. That's the point that it turns into a murder mystery or whatever it is.

It's just everything is at that level of awkward threat. And I thought it was really well done. I knew nothing about it beforehand other than the title. I thought from the poster, which you can see there, that it might be a horror movie because that's kind of got like a psycho thing going on. there but I actually I thought it was very affecting very well done and and certainly at the top end of those kind of interloper stories as I said we have seen many of them before and the highsmith is the

high point but this is a very worthy contender now there is one more film that we want to talk about yes which is called goodbye June which I still for people of a certain generation I still think it should be called goodbye to Jane spelt in the Slade way of course now this is because this is a new movie by Kate Winslet. Yeah, so this is Kate Winslet making a directorial debut. As we've said, we've done an hour-long interview with Kate Winslet that's going out on our show, which drops on the 23rd. It's based on a feature debut script by Joe Anders,

who is Kate Winslet's son, who wrote the script inspired by his own loss of his grandmother. And then Kate Winsett was giving him some advice on how to submit it and read the script. sort of fell in love with it and ended up directing it. So basically, it's the story of four siblings, Kate Winsler, Andrea Reisbury, Tony Colette and Johnny Flynn. The mother, June, is played by Helen Mirren,

and she is taken ill in the run-up to Christmas. The family gather in the hospital room from which it appears to be clear that she may not leave. Meanwhile, Tony Collette's character, who's living abroad, is sort of parachuted in. and the family are riven with divisions and old rivalries particularly between the sisters who are played by Kate Winslet by Andrea Reisborough which gives great sort of causes great pain

to June who wants nothing more for them to reconcile meanwhile Timothy Spall who's the dad who is June's husband appears to be either just completely withdrawn from the situation or I think more accurately so traumatised by what is going on, that he simply can't deal with it and just becomes obsessed with trivia. Here's a click. I've never... I've never found a better culinary pairing and Guinness and Pork Scratchings.

I can't. I know. Dad, shut up. I can't hear what house. What? Go on house. No, no. If mum can't go home, she'll have to stay at mine and that's that. Do you mean to your house, Molly? Of course. Who else is? To stay with her.

Ask us. Do you... Yes, to stay with me. And then Connor and you and dad, Helen, can stay with Julia. Yeah. Yeah, great. Whatever. Yeah.

Absolutely fine. That's a very good idea. Plenty of room. Okay. Okay, okay, that's good. Yeah. Oh, I can't. How did this even happen?

Dad forgot to turn and tap, so. No, I never. No, I never did. No, I've never did. It is unbelievable. Mercury is in retrograde, though. You know that. Okay.

Moving on. now before we get to the review of the film do you want to show a clip from the well yes so Mark's mentioned that we've got the Kate Winsett special interview which is going out on the 23rd so she comes into the studio and she is a phenomenally successful one of our most successful actors

she's making her directorial debut as Marcus mentioned we stand we're lining up for a photograph afterwards but because it's Kate Winslet that she's not happy with the lighting. So there's a shot, I think, which someone took here. So we're all lined up, and then she's thinking, no, no, no, no, we're not having that. You need to move the light around here,

and then eventually we end up with a decent looking picture. So here is a clip from, there'll be a full version of this, obviously, which comes out on the 23rd. Here's just a little bit of Kate in the interview, and the person who she starts off talking about is her son, Joe Anders, as Mark has explained. He just does have an understanding of film and of characters,

and he's always been a very observant person forever with a notebook in his back pocket and just fascinated by people and the human condition in a similar way to myself, to be honest. And he worked on it some more, and when I really got him to believe that I wanted to make this into a film, I said, look, I will produce it, and I'd love to play one of the sisters. And after about a year of further development and various different iterations of the script and redrafting certain things and getting very good at listening to notes and constructive criticisms, there was a screenplay that was ready to be sent out to directors and Netflix had shown some interest in it and I suddenly realized I couldn't let it go and I just thought, you know, if I never do this again, if this is the only moment in my life, I direct a film, I know I'd regret it. it if it wasn't this one. So here's the thing about the movie. So we've both watched it.

And obviously the story about, it's called Goodbye June, so you know that it's about the loss of somebody. And you also know that the writer has based it on the loss of their grandmother. So there's a lot of kind of personal stuff in there. But the first thing to say about it is, for a film which is about the end of someone's life, it's absolutely full of life it is certainly if anyone's ever

and everyone will have done had the experience of you know a loved one in the last stage of life and everyone gathering around particularly gathering around in this sort of strange environment of a hospital room you realise that actually people laugh and they do weird things and stuff goes on and it's not

just a simple process of you know of sadness and I think the film captures that brilliantly and I think one of the reasons it does We were asking Kate Winslet about this during the interview is that what she tried to do was to take all the boom mics and all the paraphernalia out and whenever possible to use locked-off cameras to have everybody just kind of bugmiked

so that the atmosphere on the set was very conducive to the actors behaving naturally. Now obviously she has an extraordinary acting career so it's not like she doesn't know what actors need. The other thing is she's been at film school since she was in heavenly creatures because she's worked with Peter Jackson and James, you know, this is extraordinary array of people

so she's seen how people direct movies and how direction works. I do, however, think, you see, it might be tempting to go, okay, well, that amazingly stellar cast, well, of course they're good, because they're incredible actors. I mean, Tim Spall is one of the greatest actors of our generation, and I think he's terrific in the film of Helen Mirren, you know, he's, you know, a titan.

And, okay, fine, those are great actors, of course they're going to do great work and of course they're going to want to sign on to a project directed by Kate Windsor. I think it's deeper than that. I think they wouldn't sign on if the script hadn't been as good as it is. And I genuinely think that the script does something quite remarkable, which is that it manages to talk about death in a way that is not morbid. It manages to talk about loss in a way that is, you know, it's not saccharine sweet, it's not, it does managed to avoid sentimentality in Schmaltz, which would be very, very easy to fall into. But it does do that thing, which is that we're all going to be in this position at some

point. And when we are, since it is a universal truth, wouldn't it be quite good to have a drama about it which had all those different registers? The other thing I think that's really important is, I think it is a really well-directed film. I mean, yes, good script, of course, yes, good performances, of course. But I think it's really well-directed. But I think it's directed in a way that is very unshoey. And quite often when people credit directors, it tends to be because the director has done something that's kind of visually remarkable or whatever,

it's much harder to appreciate good direction when you don't notice it. And one of the things with the film is it has a number of young performers in it who I think really natural, really behave like not like they're pretending, but they are just being. And of course, Kate Windsor has said that's the key to directing kids is that they're not acting, you just get them to a place where they can be. And I was, I mean, I'm obviously, I've been a huge fan of Kate Winsler as an actor,

and I have met her a few times, and she's always been incredibly nice, you know, like really sort of genuinely interested and nice. But watching the film, I did think, blimey, this is a really well-directed movie, and as a first, you know, directorial first feature, I know, as I said, it's been at film school for decades making the films that she has, but this is a really well-helmed movie. The cast are terrific, and I had done an on-stage with them briefly,

and I talked to Tim Spall. I'm always star-struck by Tim Spall, and Tim Spall said on more than one occasion, this is one of the best experiences I've ever had making a movie. He said, usually when I make a movie, you know, it's kind of stressy and I get grumpy, and he said, but this was actually one of the happiest experiences because everybody felt like they were just doing,

doing their best work because they were unable to do it. And I said, why? And he said, because she's in charge and she gave everyone the space to do what they were doing. And I think on the strength of this, she has a very, she's the cat's mother, right? Kate Winslet has, sorry, that's an old expression, you shouldn't say she when you're referring to me.

I think Kate Winsett has a very impressive career ahead of her behind the camera. Because I think it's a terrific script, It's a great cast, it's an important subject, it's dealt with humour and laughter, you know, amidst the sort of the sadness, none of it is overly sentimental. And I think it will become a Christmas staple, weirdly enough, because there is that thing around Christmas where all these things come together. People always say that, you know, at Christmas, apparently everyone watches the holiday. Kate Winslet said that, yeah, she gets people come up to and say, you know, mothers and daughters watch it together. Well, I can understand that.

I'm not a fan of the holiday, but I think this itself might become a Christmas staple because, like, you know, it's a wonderful life. It has light and dark in there. And we did talk a bit about the holiday, and you can hear more about that when the interview drops of the 23rd. It's worth saying, as it comes out on the 24th,

that a lot of, you might be in exactly the right place to watch this, you might not be. Yeah, yeah. It's a tough watch, particularly at Christmas. So it does explain what happens in the title. You are saying goodbye to someone. So it might be that on the 23rd and the 24th, you might not be thinking that maybe leave it to the 27th

and then watch it. But when you do get around to watching it, it's a very rewarding film for everybody. Yeah, and it's... Johnny Flynn is great. Oh, Johnny Flynn's fantastic. I think Johnny Flynn walks on water, frankly, but he's fantastic in everything.

And he's really nice. All of those things. All of those things. So look out for the Kate Winsler interview because it is really interesting and it was great because she came in and gave us a longer conversation. As you know, you have been voting for the greatest Christmas scene

the two finalists were John McLean crawling through the air duct and George Bailey shouting Merry Christmas through Bedford Falls in It's a Wonderful Life. The winner is the greatest Christmas movie scene of all time with 46% of your votes die hard

not try hard that's a different movie altogether long-term listeners 54% going for it's a wonderful life let's watch the greatest Christmas movie scene of all time according to you yay hello Bedford Ford

Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas, George! Merry Christmas, movie, hollow! Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas! Emporium! Merry Christmas, you wonderful, building alone! Hey! Merry Christmas, Mr. Potter!

Happy New Year to you! In jail! Go on home, they're waiting for you. Very good. That was a fantastic end, don't you think? Well, there is a lot of Shawshank before you get to the redemption, though, is there not. And can I just remind everybody, we've mentioned this before, that It's a Wonderful Life was investigated by the House Un-American Activities Committee

during the McCarthy Witch Hunts. And they concluded that the film was dangerous because it was pro-communist and anti-bankers. We've moved on and learned. Well, no, some of us have. And some of us haven't. We're at the end of the show. Thank you very much indeed.

for coming. Would you put your hands together, please, for our top production team who are backstage. They're too embarrassed to appear, apart from the elf. Thanks to Leo Costa and to Jason. Thank you for traveling from Iceland. Thank you for traveling from California. Thank you for traveling from Birmingham. And thank you from wherever you've come. We really, really appreciate you being part of the show, contributing to the show, coming to the Christmas show, and we continue to perform a load of nonsense on a weekly basis. Yes, and at the beginning, somebody said, you know, I can't imagine this,

the time when this might come to an end. And I've been trying for many, many, many years to get you to commit to, you know. So let's just end this festive special with you saying, for the first time in your life, 10 more years. Okay, we need to leave it now. It's just gone 4 o'clock.

Thank you very much, Dee, for coming. Safe journey home, Waseil! Wasail! Mark Kamog, Simon Mayo, the production team. Thank you.