Kermode & Mayo’s Take - Michael Douglas, Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania, Marcel the Shell with Shoes On, The Son & Nostalgia

Episode Date: February 17, 2023

Simon speaks to Hollywood royalty Michael Douglas about the return of Ant-Man - Michael recommends the best way to watch his new film... Mark reviews drama ‘Nostalgia’ about a man named Felice who returns to his hometown, Naples, after a 40-year absence; ‘Marcel the Shell with Shoes On’ - the feature adaptation of the animated short, Marcel (voiced by Jenny Slate) is a 1-inch-tall shell that lives with his grandmother; ‘The Son’ starring Hugh Jackman, Laura Dern and Vanessa Kirby which tells the tragic story of a deeply troubled teenager who tries to navigate moving in with his father, and ‘Ant- Man and the Wasp: Quantumamia’ which sees Paul Rudd, Michelle Pfeiffer, and  Michael Doulas reprise their role in the Marvel franchise. Time Codes (relevant only when you are part of the Vanguard): 11:34 Marcel the Shell With Shoes On Review 18:43 Box Office Top 10 29:59 Michael Douglas 43:55 Ant-Man and The Wasp: Quantumania Review 52:06 Laughter Lift 01:01:43 Nostalgia Review 01:05:57 What’s On 01:07:46 The Son Review EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ https://nordvpn.com/take Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! You can contact the show by emailing [e-mail] or you can find us on social media, @KermodeandMayo A Somethin’ Else & Sony Music Entertainment production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow us @sonypodcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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All right, Martin. I've got you present. So is that, is that mean you are alright? It means I've got you present. So you are welcome back to the full strength. Well, I wouldn't say I am full strength. Alright, welcome back to, you are full strength enough that last night I was allowed back into Shea Mayo. Yes.

Because it was no longer House of Plague. Correct. That is true. But obviously for the last two weeks, whereas usually on a Tuesday night, I would turn up at your house at 9.30 I'd be welcome with a cup of tea and some casual chat about what's happening in the world of ceramics. Yes. And then I'd be sent upstairs to the attic. Yes. Where I leave no trace. Yes. But for the last two weeks that hasn't happened I have enjoyed the hospitality of some of the The low rent hotels I've star available in the old cities in the old street area Well, it turns out that in one of these particular hotels if you if you upgrade like 15 pounds to a superior room Right you get free chocolates

So I brought them for you. They've been in my pocket for a couple of weeks, but there we go. Free chocolates from the hotel room. So I'm looking at a miniature green and blacks. Yeah, the organic and a green and blacks butter scotch, but squished out of existence also with fluff. Lint. Oh yeah, I'm gonna take those. Been in my pocket. Chocolate is actually leaking out of the packet and has got fluff attached to it. But I did, as I was leaving the herterium, I thought I will take those for Simon.

Thank you very much, you can take them back again. You don't want them. I absolutely don't want them. No one's gonna be eating those. Actually, that's got a bit of lint stuck in it. Yeah. Saying lint though makes it sound as's got a bit of lint stuck in it. Yeah. Saying lint though makes it sound as though it's kind of linty chocolate and it's not lint, it's just

the fluff from your pocket. Lint makes it sound like exactly. When it was a thought that counts, executive fluff. Exactly. Not half. That joke for when you hear, when you hear and it is worth just Spending a few minutes on the internet. Obviously not now finding some of Alan Freeman's old programs Yeah, he was Sensations was absolutely tibbitty top. He was tibbitty top and a hang dang duty not So all of this makes no sense if you don't know Alan Freeman Freeman was. Who was one of the greatest... One of the greatest broadcasters we shall not see his like again. I spent a very entertaining five minutes in his company,

his back at Radio One, when he was explaining to me the similarity between heavy metal and opera. Oh, that's right, because he was a big... Big classical music fan, a big rock fan. And as I'm sure I've mentioned before, the first time I ever met him, I was the in breakfast, he waited for a record to come on. He came into the studio and he said,

Simon Darling and he came in, he put his hand over my mouth and kissed the back of his hand. But you know, tall intense purposes, it was a full-on snog, but I never met him before, but I was completely blown away. I did a radio show with Karen Keating in which he came on and he was the guest and he was wearing a caftan. Cool in a caftan.

And no idea why, because he's a child of the 60s. He's a child of the 60s. Yes. Did they ever look good? I mean, they look very strange. They did a lot. You were wearing a belt-hint. Very very very damaged resource.

So many out-to-date references. Anyway, here we are. And a very interesting radio. Welcome to out-to-date references. Anyway, here we are, and a very interesting video. Welcome to the show. That's right. Michael Douglas is going to be on a little bit later on. Talking about his new film, Basic Instinct. So, I don't think we're going to be talking about Basic.

No, it was a retros. I should have said, talking about the streets of San Francisco, actually, which would have been a better job. I bet he's won a Cafftown. I bet he has. I bet he has. No. Street of San Francisco is end of the 60s,

beginning of the 70s, and he was definitely suited and booted at that point. At some stage in his life, my guess is, we only need to ask him this. Michael. Michael, have you ever won a caftain? Yes. Love and peace, man.

What are you doing on the show today anyway? I'm going to be reviewing Marcel the Shell with Shuseon, which is an Oscar and BAFTA nominated animation, nostalgia, the Sun, which is the new film by Florian Zella, and I'll be reviewing Ant Man and the Wasp Quantumania, and you will be interviewing Michael Douglas. So you'll hear that in this particular edition of the show. So it's here a great Hollywood bonafide movie star, as if that needed being said, because you've interviewed Michael Douglas before for... Yeah, the last time, I'm telling you twice, but the last time was on this show in our previous

incarnation for Behind the Candelabra, which is a great film in which he plays Liberace. Yeah, and it's terrific. He is. Also, we continue to super serve you with our own extra stuff in our extra takes. More of this nonsense. Apparently, it says here more than double take one. Really? How do they know?

We haven't done it yet. It might just be a very short show. Pretentious. More currently, the people 9 versus mark 7.5. 7.5. You decide our word of mouth on a podcast feature, and which you get to hear about what's good on streaming services. This week, what are we talking about?

Hello, tomorrow. Where's that then? That is on Apple TV. This week's episode of Shrinkler Box, by the way, is the one on Omar Little from the Wire, Baraka Barma's favorite fictional character, which is the one that we watched and we talked about. That's right, yes. On this here show. If you're part of the Vanguard and you're already subscribed to The Take You Get, showing the box, ad free on Tuesdays alongside all our other extra bits and pieces. If you're not a Vanguard Easter, now is the

time to really kind of examine yourself and ask what you've done with your life, basically. Anyway, you'll find showing the, wherever you get your podcast. You can support us via Apple Podcast or head to extra takes.com for non-fruit related devices. But if you are already a Vanguardista, as always, we salute you. Thank you very much. I just said also this morning, on the way in, you and I, whilst in the car from your house, did an interview with Jay Rayner for a piece

that he is writing. And it turns out, I think he is a van God Easter. So we should say hello to him, hello Jay Rayner. I thought we said this morning, I thought you were gonna say this morning at 4.50, I talked to brother, brother, 50. Down to an incubator with 30 minutes later,

go birth to a daughter within a year. Who was it that was, was it, it was child three who said, isn't it interesting how the time frame of that sort of changes? Everything changes. That's all changed. Even when it goes forward to the future.

David Milliken, MB, BCH, B-A-O, MRCOG, subspec gynecological oncologist, long term listener, year two school progress prize winner. Okay. Dear Lonnie and Donnegan, no one I was listening to the various, very moving and profound emails read by an audibly choked sign I keep on doing that. Can underestimate the power of cinema or for that matter of your bickering conviviality and companionship over the years. However, let's just said about the power of skiffle. Okay, you making this up? Well, this is real. No, this is said about the power of skiffle.

Okay, you're making this up? Well, this is real. No, this is, I mean, it could be written by a CGI bot, but CGBT plus bot. CBGBs. As part of my work, I have the pleasure of running a telephone follow-up clinic, checking in on patients who have had cancer treatment under my care. My specialty treats gynecological cancers, hence these conversations are primarily with women, the majority of whom are in their elder years. I have many very lovely chats and interactions with these ladies and consider it a privilege to get an insight into their lives and their wisdom, and often quite wicked sense of humor. Occasionally, however, I speak with their carers and partners. One gentleman in particular has always impressed and moved me with the absolute devotion he shows to his life partner as

he sadly succumbs to the ravages of dementia. They are both in their late 80s. She can no longer interact with me on the phone but I speak with him to ask after her. However I make a point of engaging with him as he is her sole carer and is virtually housebound himself as a result. I've had many chance with him over the last couple of years, but on our last call, the subject of Skiffle arose. I asked him if anyone is looking out for him and his needs and does he have any respite. He explained that, although he rarely leaves the house, he travels the world in his head, exploring and researching his musical passion, which is skiffle.

He is a musician who used to play in a skiffle band himself, and in latter years they played in various care homes and venues where his audiences would often know all the words and melodies to what they were playing. Sadly that came to an end with the advent of Covid, I am sure he and his bandmates brought much joy to the audiences that they played for. He is researching its origins in the Southern states and its influence in British music. I was so animated and enthused I could have listened him for hours. He still plays his instruments in his obviously very passionate about it. I had to admit I was not familiar with Skiffle, but my main point of knowledge was that Mark and the Dodge Brothers

played and he immediately knew of your Irv Mark and described you as an excellent bass player. Well, okay, I take that as the highest compliment. Thank you very much. I had to, yes. So in summary, Skiffle is clearly a force for good and Mark has at least one fan. Keep up a good work. Down with the Nazis and pipe-spoken blue-aird feminists, I'll look at Jason and so on, David Millican.

So, isn't that fantastic? The fact that you know, you would expect all kinds of things to come up. And then this is a skiffle coming up. There's a wonderful book that I have that's written by a vicar, the Reverend Bryant, if name fails me now, anyway. And it's called something like Watty's Skiffle. And it is a whole book on the appreciation of Skiffle written by this vicar back in the 1950s. I'll

bring it in next week because it's got the most brilliant opening chapter which lays down the rules as if there were ever any rules of what what you can and can't do in Skiffle. And it's absolute genius because as you're reading it you can imagine this vicar you know he's written his sermon and he's done his stuff and then he pulls over his tight writer and he says now I'll settle down to the thing I really want to write about which is whether or not a harmonica does indeed go in a skiffle outfit It's I think he's called the Reverend Brian bird or anyone bring it in actually David Melakin. Thanks very much for the email correspondence at kohname.com Chris Gillings from Sudbury, Ontario,

just get us up to speed on Fraser. It infuriates me that Brendan Fraser gets called Brendan Frazier. Chris says there is a reason people morph Fraser into Frazier. Okay. It's easier. The S sound is at the front of the mouth

and the R sound is at the back. By putting in place of S makes the sound close together. Top-notch production team get marked to say, a train full of storm troopers three times fast. Train may turn into train storm to storm and troopers to troopers. Okay, so what I meant is that a train full of storm troopers. A train full of storm troopers, a train full of storm troopers, a train full of storm troopers. How many times do you need to say it? A train full of Stormtroopers. A train full of Stormtroopers. Fraser. Brendan Fraser. Brendan Fraser. It's not that hard. So Chris, I think I'm proven at the moment,

but thank you very much for serving Ontario. We appreciate your contribution at Correspondence at CoventryMayah.com. Let's go see a movie. So Marcel the Shell with Shoes On, which is nominated for best animated feature in both, as I said, the BAFTAs and the Oscars. This is directed by Dean Flasher Camp and co-written with Jenny Slates. They made a short film back in 2010 called Marcel the Shell with Shoes On, in which then it became a trilogy.

And it is like an in-chi shell with feet and one eye. And this sort of caught the imagination. And after the first one came out and everyone sort of really really loved it, the couple got married. And then it was announced that they were going to make a feature film of Marcel the Shell. And then it was announced that they were getting divorced,

but they were gonna carry on making the feature film because this is how much faith they had in the project. So now the feature film is out and has done terrifically well. The story is that Dean, who is played by Dean Flaschercamp, has recently broken up with his partner. So he moves into an Airbnb and in the Airbnb, he meets Marcel the shell with Shuzon, who it turns out has ended up in the Airbnb because the couple that used to live there when it was a house broke up and in the breakup he got separated from all of his family

apart from his grandmother, Nanakoni who is voiced by Isabella Rossellini. Marcel is voiced by Jenny Slate. And it's the story, and he says, okay, well, I want to make a documentary about you. So he starts making a documentary about this tiny little shell and his grandmother who uses it, you know, you know, if you get a champagne bottle, the kind of wire thing that holds the,

she uses that as a walker because she's quite old and she's starting to suffer from memory loss. And basically, Marcel sees it as his role to care for and protect her. Here is a very endearing clip from Marcel, the Shell with shoes on the feature. All right, so you've got the book, you've got a little bit of a reason which I really don't think you're going to finish, but you can go to town, go to town. Also, you have two drips of, look over here. You have two drips of water. You got an LED flashlight in case the power goes out. You just gotta step on it like this.

See? See, it's a flow. I'm sorry. Little sand right in front of it. Finally, this is the sparkler. What you do is you light this end on fire and then you step back. This can act as a flare, all right? What do I need?

That's if you need a signal for help. And Dean's gonna leave his phone just in case. What? You know what? Now that I'm thinking about it, why don't we just put the call under over you now if you want? Okay. How's that?

You must let me out of here. Wow, that's startlingly different. Startlingly different, very surreal. There's a part of the quality of Ardmond's creature comforts about the fact that the vocals seem to be kind of recorded almost incidentally. Remember the whole thing with creature comforts? Was it like interviews, but then they were like

plasticine animation? I think this is really charming. And I think there's a number of reasons that it is. The first one is it's just a really odd little idea, which is this one in Shell that happens to have feet and has got this whole life that he wants to tell the documentary filmmaker about his one point, his grandmother said, voice, but Isabella Rossi,

Mussolini says, you know, what exactly is documentary filmmaking? And he says, well, it's like a movie, but nobody's got any lines and nobody even knows what it's going to be even while they're making it. And so the documentary is being made and we hear all this stuff about how his life has played out. But behind all that incidental stuff, there are these stories about broken

relationships and family separation and also a very serious but really sort of whimsical way story about somebody approaching the end of their life and somebody Understanding that there is a completely natural process in all of this. There's a reading at one point from Philip Lock into the trees, which is a you know, absolutely beautiful thing and Then it's got this really Lovely playful adventure of score by disaster piece Richard Reeland which incidentally you can you can hear selections from on sculler radio. Is that right?

That's Saturday afternoon. It is Saturday afternoon, once you'll three, thank you very much, followed by you. And then there's a lovely moment in it in which myself sings peaceful, easy feeling, which is why I was singing peaceful, easy, fairly, extremely, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, of it just before we started. We were sitting there and it's unlike, I don't think I've ever heard you sing the Eagles. I love the Eagles or Eagles. Yeah, there are Eagles, but you know, it's a bit like it's easier to say phrases, easy to say that Eagles. So, there are Eagles, yeah. I love the Eagles. I've always really, I've mentioned this before, but in the final Sex Pistols gig, I think

it was Somaland or whatever, it was called Somaland. Anyway, Sid Vicious is on stage and they're having an argument with the audience, and Sid Vicious says, we're the best band in the world, no one's better than us. Except the Eagles, the Eagles are better than us, which is just a genius joke. Anyway, it's quite funny. I thought this was really quietly profound,

and it's funny and charming and odd, and you can see that it has its roots in a you know in a short film There's one really extended gag that should not work about the about Marcel loving 60 minutes on television and Wanting to be on 60 minutes and you think this okay? This is the kind of thing that you write into a feature to make a short film into something longer. This absolutely shouldn't work. And somehow they managed to get away with it for much longer than they should. It's charming, it's, I think it's suitable for, you know, audiences of all ages, it's a PG-stifficant film. Um, why is it a PG? I don't know, I'll have a look at the B-

I mean, is it just some of the matters that they address? It's a family break, what I'm talking about. Well, it may be, but since you brought it up, let me have a bea- man look stuff up on the... Oh, no, no, because you asked, I will tell you exactly what that myself, the shell with shoes on,

this is what the BBFC say about the film. When there's sight work there, it goes, mild upsetting scenes, rude humour, and infrequent drug references. Oh, okay. So, you know, that's pretty fine. I think it's really charming. It's, I suspect that when it actually comes to the awards,

it will get trans by Pinocchio, and deservedly so because I think Pinocchio, Guillermo de Torres Pinocchio, is a work of art. But it is really fascinating that every year, the two most interesting categories in any awards season are international feature or film not in the English language and animation. If you take those two categories, you get the best of the best. Still to come in this year, take what else are we reviewing?

I have to go back to the other piece of paper. Excuse me, Mark can't read a script. I'll just say then. You know, I can tell you what we've got. We've got reviews of nostalgia, the sun, and Ant-Man and the Wasp quantumania with our special guests. Michael Douglas, time for the ads and let's you in the vanguard in which case we'll be back before you can say the quantum realm. Happy Nord Christmas! Protect yourself whilst Christmas shopping online and access all the Christmas films from around the globe. Plus, when you shop online you'll have to give websites your card details and other sensitive data like your personal addresses. Those

websites should already have their own encryption built into their payment systems, but to be on the safe side you can use a VPN to ensure that all data coming to and from your device is encrypted. Even if you're using an unsafe Wi-Fi, you'll still be able to shop securely with a VPN. And you can access Christmas films only available overseas by using streaming services not available in the UK. To take our huge discount of your NordVPN plan, go to NordVPN.com-take. Our link will also give you four extra months for free on the two-year plan. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money bank guarantee. The link is in the podcast episode description box.

Hi, esteemed podcast listeners, Simon Mayo. I'm Mark Kermot here. I'm excited to let you know that the new season of the Crown and the Crown, the official podcast, returns on 16th of November to accompany the sixth and final season of the Netflix epic Royal Drama series. Very exciting, especially because SuperSub and Friend of the Show, Edith Bowman hosts this one. Indeed, Edith will take you behind the scenes, dive into conversation with a talented cast and crew from writer and creator Peter Morgan to the crowns

Queen Elizabeth, in Melda Staunton. Other guests on the new series include the Crowns research team, the directors, executive producers Suzanne Mackie and specialists, such as voice coach William Connaker and props master Owen Harrison. Cast members including Jonathan Price, Selim Dor, Khal Dala, Dominic

West and Elizabeth the Bikki. You can also catch up with the story so far by searching The Crown, the official podcast, wherever you get your podcast, subscribe now and get the new series of The Crown, the official podcast first on November 16th. Available wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is brought to you by Mooby, a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe. From my Coddic directors to emerging otters, there's always something new to discover, for example. Well, for example, the new Aki Karri's Mackey film Fallen Leaves, which won the jury prize

at CAN, that's in cinemas at the moment. And if you see that and think I want to know more about Aki Karri's Mackey, you can go to Mooby the streaming service and there is a retrospective of his films called How to Be a Human. They are also going to be theatrically releasing In January Priscilla, which is a new Sophia couple of films, which I am really looking forward to since I have an Elvis obsession. You can try Mooby free for 30 days at Mooby.com slash Kermed andmeow for a whole month of great cinema for free. And we're back with the box office top 10 at number 14, interestingly 14 here and 14 in America is women talking. I was I walked into picture house central last week and I realized because they have it

as you walk in up the stairs they've got a women talking display. You know when you look at something from a certain angle, you don't have to do those stair things. They use them in train stations. That last week was officially previews and this week is officially opening. Okay. Which so I presume it just means that it was, so it was at 43 locations from last week, and then it will go wider this week. So it may well go up in next week's charts. It's not that it's peaked at 14,

it's that it previewed. I loved it. Before we tell you some more detail, let me read this email from Cameron, and then you can work out, and you can give us your thoughts and answer Cameron's point. Sarah Mark, your discussion of women talking made me want to abandon my weekend plans,

jump in the car and drive straight to the nearest cinema. Thinking that I might be able to convince my wife to give it a go, I was disappointed to find that she was very much set against going to see it. Based on the trailer, she thinks that a film which seems to be entirely concerned with the rape of women and the threat of rape would be too upsetting, rather heavy and altogether not what you want. For a couple of hours, thinking about on a Saturday night. People will have their own individual tolerances, of course, but for the benefit of all those hesitant about the subject matter,

I would appreciate it if you could talk a bit about how the film handles these issues. I'm not. I'm sure it's not exactly a beer and pizza kind of film, but it would be good to know how much resilience or emotional fortitude it requires of its audience. Well, last week, when I mentioned that there are flashbacks that they illustrate the story, but that what they don't do is they don't put the atrocities on screen.

And we were talking about this in relation to another film, which is similar to Tilt. I think it chose not to. Precisely so, in the matter. So it's very clear that that stuff is there and it's the thing that's precipitated the discussion, but it is not pushed to the front. The film is made by Sarah Polly, who is a terrific filmmaker and sensitive to exactly the issues that you are raising. And one of the things I was trying to say, and I'm sorry if I didn't convey this when I was doing the review is, that for some, for a film, the subject matter of which is apparently very bleak, which is what you're just talking about there, the film is vibrant and life-affirming and full of strange humor. I mean the men and

night community, I've read a couple of emails or posts from people who were men and night raised and he said there is a very particular form of of humor that they that they have which is very resilient and very strong and of course the whole form of the narrative is to do with empowerment because they start having this meeting. The very first thing they learn to do, these women who haven't been taught to read all right and they've never been shown a map of anywhere out the world outside. So they begin with a very close to view and the very first thing they learn to do is that they learn to vote. And so the whole film you can see as a microcosm

of empowerment. So I feel that it's a wholly empowering film and it is a film about resilience and fortitude. And also, from my point of view, I found it interesting because it's about theology and religion and philosophy and forgiveness. There is a huge amount of very naughty debate in the film about forgiveness. So it's a 15-centive because of the subject of the conversation. But what you see is aftermath rather than the... Exactly, precisely so. Cameron, I hope that helps.

Number 10 is the Fableman. Yeah, it's kind of cute, but you know, it's fine. It's fine. Number nine is Epic Tales. We just, you know, I can't remember waking up and thinking what my life really needs is Jason and the organe or meets Tom and Jerry, but when I I asked you when you'd last thought that you said this morning, so there you go Probably the film for you.

Patan, is it number eight? On the way down, Sharuk, I'm afraid I still haven't seen it, I will try and check it out. It's- You're listening, Sharuk, you should now withdraw all your store for a month. That's really, really sorry. Twitter, because he doesn't do it anyway, So he might as well just say, you know, everyone bail out. Plane is at number seven, number 10 in the state.

Gerard Butler, Anna Plain, and an island, and a bunch of separatist militia thugs. He must team up, you know, it's, it is a film that does exactly what it says in the tin. It has the most preposterously stupid final act, but in a very kind of entertaining way, it's not Greenland. Greenland, too, is on the way incidentally. Well, I hope they spend it in Greenland, unlike Greenland.

Well, they end up. They end up, they end up. Spoilers, spoiler, spoiler. Well, it is called Greenland. Greenland, so, you know, the whale is at six here. Number 15 in the States. Do we have any emails? What shall I just...

Okay, it stars Brendan Fraser. Knock at the cabin, is it number five? It's... I don't think it's one of M Night Shyamalan's best. Robbie Colin had a very convincing argument for why it was. The thing with Shyamalan films is they're very, very hit and miss.

I'm quite happy for a very, very hit and miss. I'm quite happy for a filmmaker to be hit and miss because, you know, he's the sort of thing that he does, he's tale of the unexpected. But I said it before, I'll say it again, I'm sorry, until everybody has got their head around this. Michael Tolkien's The Rapture is the film that this should have been. Number four here, number two in the state's avatar, the way of water. And as I established, I think fairly and properly

on the show last week, very entertaining. You've seen in our like chunks with a John Wick film in between each of the chunks. And this is my firm recommended. I mean, that does, to be honest, that takes up the whole day. But it's an entertaining way of spending the day. Number three here, uh, oh, you're not going to say it. We weren't any emails about it or anything. Okay. Can I just think everyone is said? I just want to say quickly do the

litany. I can't stand the film, but it's good for cinema. Titanic is at number three here and and in the States as well. So look at that. So James Cameron has number four and number three. You can say you like about James Cameron, but not being a hitmaker is not one of the things you can say about him. There was a lot of commentary on our YouTube channel, which incidentally I advise everyone to check out if you want to see these with pictures, about me talking about the Sherry Lansing, you know, you're not a teenage girl. And it was nice to read. But one of the things that somebody said was, well, maybe that explains the Twilight thing.

And child one said, no, you like Twilight because it's great. There you go. Answered. Well, on that point, Elliot Guthrie, to you fine says, having just heard Mark's Titanic 3D 4K IMAX review, when the good doctor says Titanic was for teenage girls, Mark's Titanic 3D 4K iMac's review. When the good doctor says Titanic was for teenage girls,

it probably is. However, as a teenage boy when it came out, I loved it and fell in love with Leo. And it was my starting point for a career in film and screenplay. Well, there you go. Elliot, thank you very much. Thank you.

Number two here, number one in the States, Magic Mike's last dance. Christopher Lewis says, I must confess, I am an extra in the London montage that Mark hates so much in this film. Got to briefly speak to Soderbergh. I told him I love Skitsopoulos and he apologized for its existence jokingly apparently.

I've been lucky enough to work with some big directors that I deeply respect and I can safely say that Soderbergh is by far the most hands-on I have seen as a director, cinematography, camera operator, and he still found time to give me a few courteous moments during his very busy schedule. I had a great time filming, so if the movie isn't very good, then I'm still happy it exists for the memories that I have. Yeah. And I have never heard anyone say a bad word about Soda Berg. He is absolutely hands on that's why sometimes when you look at the credits of his films, the words that appear the most are Stephen Soda Berg. And yeah, if you've got a career like Stephen Soda Berg, hey, you have the right to make a naft movie every now and then.

Number one in the UK, number five in the States is Pussin Boots, Jonathan Hanna. I thought I'd just write in to join the chorus of church members shocked at Mark's dismissive review of Pussin Boots, the last wish. A film that had no right to be as good as it is, a story about confronting death which is palatable but never condescending for children. Dreamworks taking such care with the story and showing such craft with the animation for a sequel, they could have easily just been churned out without a thought should be celebrated. The best personification of death since the 7th seal. Jamie Glasgow writing this, having just listened to the review of Puss and Boots, the last wish, and I can only disagree with Mark's assessment. My friends and I, all being film students, were interested in

seeing the film, having heard the buzz surrounding it. We all attended a screening at our local cinema and, safe to say, I absolutely adored it. I found it extremely difficult to leave the cinema not inspired. The story tackles some particularly dark material, especially for a film accessible to a younger audience, in particular the approach to death and the nature of people, dealing with the inevitability of death in the way it did left a particularly profound effect, perhaps in its simple execution, while perhaps not as complex as other animated features on the awards list at the time of writing us 11th Symphony. I still believe

this is well worth a watch solely for the absolutely stunning animation and vibrant colourful action sequences. Fan-end like to give a shout out to my dad, Russell, who's been listening to your witterings since your review of Star Wars Phantom Menace. Jamie from Glasgow. Well, those are two emails, both of which are from emails who got more from the film than I did. Interesting, that's the third animated feature in the awards contention, which deals deals with death. I would say it doesn't do it in anything like, as profound a way as either Pinocchio

or Marcel do. And it may be that I've been spoiled for choice by the other animated offerings. But I don't know, it didn't work for Robbie, but I'm glad that it worked for you. Is this the kind of, do you think this is, or maybe get a sense for this, that maybe it's the kind of movie that you'll see again sometime and go, all right, okay, I can see what people were talking about. It's entirely possible. Okay, so that's number one, put some boots is the number one movie.

So, as you mentioned, yesterday, what a guest he is, legend of Hollywood, with over 50 years in the movies. 50 years. That's five zero. And yet he still looks brightly. Basic instinct, falling down,

fatal attraction, the game, Wall Street, I'm answering the stone, traffic, China Syndrome. It was just a credible list. He branched out into the Marvel Cinematic Universe in 2015, starring opposite Paul Rod in Ant-Man, and in our stars in Ant-Man and the Wasp, Quantumania. He'll hear my interview with Michael Douglas

after this clip from the movie. It's just been curious, and we gave us some pointers. This isn't exactly Aunt Science, is it Henry? You know how dangerous the Quantum Realm is. We all do, Mom. Nobody's going to the Quantum Realm. That's why we made this. It's like a satellite for deep space or the ocean.

But... Kwanna. We just need a map. And then we can study and explore the entire Kwanumrum. Never even have to go. Your daughter builds a subatomic Hubble telescope in a basement. And that is a clip from Ant-Man and the Wasquand Tamania. I am absolutely thrilled to welcome Michael Douglas to the show. Hello,

Michael, how are you, sir? I am good, Simon. Nice to see you again and a lovely day here in England. And you're looking fantastic as you do throughout this through out this movie. Here's here's where I want to start the interview if it's okay with you. When I came out, the most memorable thing that I rang home to tell the family about is that you, I believe, are the first act to ever in a Marvel movie to talk about socialism. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Very good. Yeah, and this is from Gordon Gecko, who told us that greed is good. And now here you are explaining how socialism

is actually misunderstood. Have I got that right? You have, you have. But when somebody deals with ants, one is very social. Was that your idea of a line or was that in there anyway? No, no, I had no ideas of a line. And in these pictures, the script really comes to you two or three weeks before

filming starts and they're going there and then there's a team of writers that are working collaboratively. But no input from me. Okay. And if you'd had a script suggestion, would they have taken it? Or was it not that good? No, probably not. I unfortunately, when I first became involved in this, that I knew nothing about comic books. I wasn't a comic book guy, geek, when I was a kid. And I have come to realize that there are people that take comic books very seriously.

And we go through these comic conventions and meet these people. And of course, they're all middle-aged now, right? Middle-aged at best. So it's their children or another generation that are seeing the movies that were based on these comic books from before. Just to explain Michael, where do we find ourselves for this latest Iron Man film? Just give us the setup. Well, the second man in the wasp, basically, we went down.

My wife, Janet, played by the stunning Michelle Fyfer, has been missing for 30 years in the Quantum Realm, this micro-small universe. And we rescued her out. And so this movie, Quantumania, begins with Hank Pym and his wife, Janet Michelle. And sort of I would say retirement, enjoying the time getting to know each other again for after a couple of years, and their granddaughter, Catherine, since she has done something, a no-no, something of a no-no. And lo and behold, we find ourselves the entire family involved in another adventure in the quantum realm, which is quite amazing for anybody.

It's basically a whole world that's been technically created. I would suggest if you ate a mushroom, you may have a little better appreciation for a particular kind of mushroom for this world that existed down there, kind of a heronimus bosh mixture. It's pretty stunning. And one of the real joys to see when the whole picture is put together. And through this accident, we then deal with which is going to turn out to be the ultimate villain in the Marvel Pictures, a guy called Kang, played by Jonathan Majors, who if I understand you correctly, because this Ant-Man, a quantum man, he represents Phase V, Phase V, Ant-Man movies, which is tied to the fact that Jonathan

Majors, Kang, is going to be the villain because he can go both forward and back and time in all of the Marvel films, or in many of the Marvel films. And I think I'm allowed to say that. I haven't gotten the blow gun in the back of my neck yet or anything. Yeah, well, he makes a very good Kang the Conqueror. He's a kind of like an Adam driver's needs. He's he's he's fantastic. So it sounds to me, though, Michael. So this is the third Ant-Man film in the 31st Marvel film. It sounds to me as though you might not have seen all 31. I have not, sorry, I'm afraid to say that I have not. I think that's perfectly north 29 or 27. You're getting, you're getting, for those who are just

catching up with this story, Dr. Hank Pym, your character, what is it that he's an expert in? with this story, Dr. Hank Pym, your character. What is it that he's an expert in? Ants. Ants. I love ants. And that that that that fondness has never gone from me. Because basically in I enjoy but I enjoy getting small. So I mean, you know that that's that's just the fact. I'm a product of the 60s. So I do enjoy getting small. And so my combination of working with ants and this micro level has created some incredible superheroes and some incredible abilities that these ants have and has paid off magnificently in this film I must say. And these are the socialist ants you were telling us about earlier. It is, it is. So when you're doing a film like this, Michael,

so you talked about the quantum realm. So the exception of a couple of minutes to the beginning and a couple of minutes at the end, we are entirely in this make-believe world which your team have created. What is that like? When you're turning up each day to shoot this movie, what is the set like? What do you turn up to?

We turn up to a real floor, the floor of the quantum realm, which is kind of a craggy rock thing, surrounded by a stage. A stage is probably 300 feet long by, 100 feet wide, by an enormous green actual, now it's a screen, used to be a green curtain eight years ago that they would put the things on, but now it's a pixel high definition screen, and they recreate as much of, as far along as the effects are or the art direction is on the screens, it gives you some idea. But then and then you

have some figure, some where it's real people involved, they're standing there. You have that. Other times you just have people standing there with holding props to help give you a sense of the enormity or the height or the size of that. And it requires a fair and good amount of imagination and some good acting. It's a lot harder than I thought it was when I smuggly went into the first episode. And yeah, you have to learn to react and you have to trust. You have to trust your technicians, but you're doing things artificially, completely artificially out of place.

But they will promise you that they will make it look integral and you won't be overacting. And they're right. I mean,% of the time they're always right. Is that what it felt like? Did it feel as though you were overacting? The very style of comic books requires something a little more large, yes, than just the intimacy. It needs this, even the way that your text is relatively simple and short and sharpened clear. And it's a reflection of the comic books. And the comic books are almost sometimes too dimensional and what the way they talk and

everything is relatively straightforward. They don't get into innuend windows too much. So it's, you pick it up relatively quickly, but it takes a little while to understand. Before this, how'd you done green screen science fiction? Before? No, no, this is why I started. I never had. My whole career has been contemporary.

Only contemporary movies with very, very few effects effects special effects in them at all and I was really curious about what it was like to act when there was nothing there and That's our love for the first one, but as I said it's gotten much more Sophisticated very quickly in the eight years with this technical special effects I felt just your Hank Pym was retired. There was some of the, there was some of the Kaminsky method, some of the remancing the stone characters being brought to, you know, when there's levity in the set and in the script,

there's some of that comedy feel from your other work. Would you think that's fair? Let's fear something. Thank you very much for picking it up. Yes, when in doubt, or when you have anything to do, try to find some liberty, but I think the fact of a fight, a slightly absurd, absurd quality of something that you can't comprehend, like visiting another world in

in minuscule and and and pacing and we try to find what your what your role is. So if you're not going to be actively involved in the conflict then maybe you can kind of comment on it in a dry, humorous fashion. You sort of mold your performance based upon what you're given. I mean, when they tell you to drive a spaceship and yet the controls, you don't know whether you should be an obstetrician sticking your hands down his gooey slime holes. You have to have a little imagination. And the dress juice like a fantastic explorer look with a trench coat and a red scarf.

That was a pretty cool look you have for this film. They did. That was our, thank goodness, that was the big people that we found on the desert, the desert wanderers that had sort of a burber look. Yeah, my head goes off to the incredible production design and we see the ultimate picture how it all comes together with Peyton Reed, our director did

with the costume designers and the production designers. One of the laugh out loud lines, I think, in the movie, Michael is when, so it comes towards the end of the film, when someone says, it's never too late to stop being it, and everyone is wearing the screen. And then, but I picked up on that

just because I have understood, if I've got this right, that you have a policy, which is a node, heads policy, that at this stage in your career, you decided that you don't work with any anymore. Is that right?

Have I got that wrong? That's absolutely right, Simon. I, this is always a collaborative effort involved in the work of everybody in front and behind the cameras. And I, I'm really pretty tough on that, that rule, kind of set a tone. I mean, I love harmony. I love joined together and I don't want one kid in a group.

And I would imagine that you have very much an ensemble feel for this, because this is the third-unman film and Peyton Reed is directing again. And just to get back with everybody in the cast and returning characters, you must give it a very... So on the one hand, it's tough doing the acting as you said in the green screen, but nice to be an ensemble. It is.

It makes you understand why in the old films, actors always were working with other actors. There's a comfort factor that comes, you don't have to do the formal introductions. You don't have to be sure, carefully, that could have stepped on each other's lines or something. It makes you more relaxed,

makes you end up working together much more quickly to get up to speed much more quickly. And it's a joy, and then everybody else appreciates it. They want to protect that environment. And as a very experienced producer, Oscar winning producer indeed, did this movie feel like a whole different

ballgame to you working as you were? What was your perspective on that from a producer's point of view? I felt like I would have been totally overwhelmed. As a producer, you like to feel like you're in control of the whole situation or try to be an environment, but with all of these aspects involved in this, all the technical aspects which I had would have no knowledge of, I would feel really inadequate. So I do not see doing one of these pictures in my producing resume, much too complicated for a simple minded guy like me. What do we see you in next Michael?

I'm gonna do a, I've done it already, an Apple limited series playing Benjamin Franklin in Paris. I should probably come out in the fall. We will look forward to that. Michael Douglas, a real pleasure. Thank you so much for talking to us today. So always a pleasure to see you.

Thank you very much. Now, I was being... This always happens. There's someone at the other end saying, wrap up, wrap up. And I was thinking, I've got my caftain question. But I feel as though the caftain question had to... had to disappear. So apologies for that. But we did get references to mushrooms. It did. Yeah. Michael Douglas basically said, this is a film best watched off your head on... Yeah, Michael Douglas basically said this is a film best watched off your head on. BEEP. Anyway, so it was very, I mean, it was very classic kind of production, top Hollywood star, nice to see you again, Simon.

Yeah. Great interview. Well, it was just an interview of Michael Douglas who makes these things very easy, but you know, it's always fascinating to talk to people like that. Yeah. Great interview. Shame about the film.

The first time I knew you would be like, yeah about the film. The first act man moved you. Yeah. The first act man movie was going to be done by Edgar Wright and then he moved on, ended up not being done by him. And then Peyton Reed came in and the result was a bulge which was a film that needed to be far weirder than it was, but it was still a financial success. Then we had at Man of the Wasp now we have, I think at Man of the Wasp was 11th, highest grossing film of 2018. So now Ant Man and the Wasp Contomania, Michael Douglas actually did a pretty good synopsis

of the plot there, but just quickly, Scott Lang's daughter, Cassie Katherine Newton has accidentally opened a portal to the subatomic world by creating a transmission system. She's dragged into that world with her dad, followed by, eventually in Elise Hope, Wasp and her parents, he said there, played by Michelle Fyfe and Michael Douglas, turns out that the quantum realm is full of people, Lloyd's most notably Jonathan Majors Kang, who is the MCU's new big bad wolf.

And he is a terrific presence. I think I was first to wear of him in the last black man in San Francisco, which is a terrific film. He's in a heart of they fall devotion. He was Emmy nominated for Lovecraft County. And he's a bank character in Creed III, which I haven't seen yet, but you have. Yes. And he is the film's strongest suit. And I'm not going to spoil anything. To be honest with you, I'm not sure that I could. I could give away some cameos, which I won't do obviously because you know, or roles that I know about. Here's the thing. This is basically, imagine that you're in the world of Star Wars, Mosaic the Cantina, but Star Wars the prequels when George Lucas has discovered CG as opposed to making, you know making rubber creations.

It's a film in which someone is trying to do something really terrible. Some rebels are trying to stop them doing something terrible. There's a lot of family history and a huge amount of green screen. There's a bit of the matrix in there. There's a bit of everything in there. This is, as Michael Douglas said, like he was reading it off of a thing, this is the opener for MCU phase five, whatever that was. According to the piece in Empire with the entry with Convagi, this is where the multiverse saga really starts

to erupt. So it's meant to be a new beginning. It feels so old, it feels so tired and so tiring. The script, which is by Jeff Loftness, who is an alumnus of Rick and Morty, is I think one of the worst Marvel scripts I've ever come across. It is all exposition and absolutely no substance. Paper-thin characters introduced with speeches about who they are and what their backstory is. The Multiverse is hugely invoked. And I'm sorry at this point in the phase, all I can think of is, yeah, Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of madness, got its ass kicked by everything everywhere all at once. A funny little indie picture that Jamie Lee Curtis was tweeting, look how well we're doing in compared to this stuff. The problem with, I mean, I think I like everything everywhere because it's got an adventurous attitude to it. The problem with the Marvel universe attitude to the multiversies, it just means we can do everything whenever we want and nothing as any consequence and nothing matters. This

is the very definition of a load of stuff. There is some funny stuff, and Paul, rather doing the wisecracking thing, there is some potentus doctor who's stuff when it's the biggest big thing of any big thing that ever was big or small. There is some smashy bashy stuff, you know, it's all very by the book and you know it's going to end up with two people having a fist fight. The first Ant-Man, which was going to be directed by Edgar Wright, written with Joe Cornish, when it finally ended up as the film that came out, it's problem. And I said this in my review was, it's not weird enough. It's much too straightforward. The problem with this is, it's got weirdness all over it. I mean, you know, walking this and moving that and blah,

you know, none of it seemed strange or in any, it just seemed like a huge amount of CG work, a huge amount of just Italy-pently design work, little thing happening over here and that stuff of it, none of it engaging, none of it interesting, none of it engaging, none of it interesting, none of it exciting, none of it surprising, with the exception of the introduction of a villain whom had this been 10 years ago, I might have been thrilled by the prospect of it, but I really, really felt this is, this is run its course. I don't care. I don't care. And I'm

not entirely sure that anyone else, there's a whole generation of people for whom, you know, endgame in Finnish wars, that was the end of something. And that generation of people, I think, has lost, lost interest in something. Now, clearly, there is still an audience. I said the second film ended up being very profitable. I did think this was rubbish. I thought it was really, really sloggingly boring fair. And I wanted it to end. And then it ended.

And then I stayed for the first of the mid, you know, the mid credit bit, which was a bit. There's another one. I know, but I left because I thought, I'm sorry, I've given you two hours of my life, I don't care what happens in this door. You missed all the list of all the VFX specialists. Yeah, who all worked very hard.

And then at the end of all that, there is another appearance of, be careful, be careful. I'm gonna know what you say. No, no, no, you can't. Well, okay, that bloke comes back and he's wearing this stuff and then he's been watched by that other guy who's been on this show before and he's in the crowd. He did it.

I enjoyed it a bit more than you just because I found the jokes quite funny and pulled it. There's a couple of jokes, but it's a two hour film. And pull Rudd is, I do find him engaging. However, when I mentioned these little bits at the end of the credits, because it did make me feel a bit like my cough, this is gonna go on forever.

There is no stopping, this is a story, and you're absolutely right. This multiverse thing means there are no consequences to anything, someone dies, the matter, we can just go back. And I think, as Michael Douglas said in that interview, Jonathan Maygers came to the conqueror, can go forwards and backwards into other Marvel movies. So there is no sense of, I mean, there's no sense of peril anyway. But so I, and again, maybe this is where your friend would say you're not a teenage boy or girl or whatever, but I was thinking this stuff is just going to keep

the calling, Sherry Lansing, my friend. This is going to keep on happening unless people stop going to see them, in which case it will keep on going. I'm like a Douglas Lig. It's a wall that will be appreciated with a loosenage. He does that thing about, you know, socialisms, got a bad rap.

Yeah, yeah, I know, but those are interesting moments in a two hour Slug of a movie. Yeah, and then it stops, but it doesn't stop It goes on forever and ever and ever so So done with it all anyway Go see the movie tell us what you think correspondence atrespondence at www.curbidomeo.com. It's the ads in a moment, Mark, but first, let's pep things up a bit by stepping into our laughter lift. MUSIC

Hey, Mark. Go on. They said it couldn't be done. They said it was pointless and quite possibly profane. But on Sunday, I will be opening the showby's North London Church for pugs, O'Yea of Little Face. O'Yea of Little Face. Very good. Very good. See? O'Yea of Little Face. Very well.

That reminds me of the time I went to Azizou Tibet, and there was just a single dog in there. It was a shitsuit. Also, it reminds me of the time when I taught my dear old dog, Rover Morse code. This is in the 80s, and I was trying to impress Gary Gary Newman who'd pop round for a cup of tea. Go on then, show me, say, Gary, it was a bit like a rope up really. Go on then, show me. I said to Rover, who's a good boy then? There was a pause and then he tapped a poor on the ground, followed by two long taps, then a pause.

Then you were a long tap. And three long taps, then a pause, then three long taps again, then another pause, then two short taps, a long tap, and then a short tap. Very good said, Gary Newman, who's a qualified pilot, as you know, understands the Morse code. Very good, he said, woof. We actually bought,

we actually, Gary Newman is a distraction there. He's irrelevant. Why the Gary Newman? He's irrelevant, he's irrelevant to the time. He once landed a light plane is a distraction. He's irrelevant. Why the Gary Newman is irrelevant to the time? He's irrelevant. He once landed a light plane on a road. Yeah, but the joke is woof. I know. So why the Gary Newman?

I was waiting for it to be... It's not a... Also Gary Newman fans, you don't want to annoy them. Neumenoids. Yeah, I mean... No, no, they're very keen. A hardcore. They're very keen.

Anyway, we actually bought a dog... A dog rover from a blacksmith. Was he called Gary Newman? Nearly lost him on the day we brought him home. As soon as we got in, he made a bolt for the door. LAUGHTER OK, that much better... OK. Didn't involve Gary Newman, all right?

That's the key. What have we got still to come, Mark? I don't know. I can tell you, nostalgia and the sun. Thanks very much, back after this. And less, of course, you're a Vanguard Eastay, in which case your hair looks great, just like that and your service will not be interrupted.

Whole Trenfrew is sharing joy for the holidays with gifts for everyone on your list, and maybe even a special treat for yourself, too. Discover the new collection for Burberry by Daniel Lee. Add some ambiance with Louis V. Home. Give Gorpkora try and Solomon Sneakers, and so much more. Whatever presence you pick, we know they're going to love them. Visit a store today or shop at HoltRenfrew.com.

Metrolinx and Crosslinx are reminding everyone to be careful as Eglinton Crosstown LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert, this trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals, be careful along our tracks, and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. Okay, more reviews to come in just a moment. Thank you for the emails. If you want to get in touch, we would love to hear from you for next week's program. Correspondence at Curbinamair.com. Last week, Daniel Deweiler was on the show. Terrific interview. Talking about her astonishing,

well, I'm saying that, she wasn't saying that, in till. I think it's astonishing as well. And very, very interestingly, the comments that she made about, I mean, she used the word, in fact, I wrote down the word misogynnoir when I heard her use it again, just listening back to the interview, because I have never used that word, never had an interview where someone has used that word, but obviously particularly appropriate for what she was talking about. But that interview was picked up by CNN in America, Entertainment Weekly in America, Hollywood Reporter. And she was quoted extensively,

extensively, word for word with people picking up on what she said about people sort of choosing not to see the film. And I wonder if actually one of the reasons people might have chosen not to see the film goes back to what you were saying and our emailer was talking about with women talking, that they'd had a conversation at home and said, shall we go and see this and our correspondence, other half saying, I'm not sure that I want to see that. Where there's some people will

have read what Till is about and thoughts, similarly and thought, I don't want to see that. I mean, that feels to me to be, I in thought, I don't want to see that. I mean, that feels to me to be, I understand that, but it feels to me the wrong response because you, again, you can go on the BBFC website, find out what it's like and look at the fact that it's a 12A. Yes. Means that's almost all you need to know about the way they choose to shoot that story, the way that it's told from her point of view and no one else's,

that you don't see the crime committed means that what you're dealing with is the aftermath of the story, which is incredible. It's also true that Chinoe Chukku, who's a terrific director, had said from the outset that what they wanted to do was to make the story available to the widest possible audience. Yes. And one of the ways of doing that, and I think this also does relate, as you said, to women talking, is their subject matter does not define tone or, you know, or content. It is possible to tell that story, and again, I was just going back to my review of, I've tell. And I said that although it is a harrowing story, the film itself is, again,

to use that phrase, it's life affirming because what it is about is about somebody becoming a strong, defiant presence, even though they had never intended to be that. I mean, the way in which it tells this story of a mother who is faced with an absolutely horrendous situation, but who then steps up to the mark because that's what is required. It's kind of like, you know, come with the outcome of the man. History puts her in this position and she faces it. And so you don't come out of till feeling depressed.

Despite the fact that you've been told this terrible story, you come out of it, you know, energize angry, a whole bunch of things that are not negative emotions. You know, anger is an energy. I think that's, and it was really interesting to see how that interview was picked up partly because you know, you did a brilliant interview but partly because Daniel De Boiler was so eloquent in how she's very, very,

very animated about it still. And I wonder, you know, in 50 years when they're doing career retrospectives of Daniel De Boiler, it will definitely be a career-defining performance. They'll still talk about it. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. On the emails he had Joe says, Margaret Simon, I feel compelled to mention

that, oh, this is back, this is going back to another interview, is that when Darren Aronowski and Brendan Fraser were on the show. Did you say that with the front of your mouth or the back of your mouth? All of my mouth. All of your mouth. I feel compelled to mention that when Darren Aronowski

referred to his film The Whale as a small movie with a big heart. Small film with a big heart. He was, in fact, making his snide comment about T'lesli for which Andrew Rysber secured a late Oscar nomination. And then it was so therefore connected to our previous conversation. That's great.

In the now somewhat infamous campaign to have Rysber recognized for the role, actor Sarah Poulson commended T'lesli as a quote, small film with a giant heart. Given the controversy around this campaign, one could imagine that the nomination did not exactly engend a positive feelings around other award hopefuls, considered locks, and thusly leading to Aronofsky's knowing usage of this phrase on the pod. Okay, well, he may well have the, that's fascinating. Can I just say that if that, I'm not convinced that that is what he was doing, but if that was what

it was, get over yourself, not you, the email, you, Joe. No, anyway, and who knows what he was thinking? Because, because, may I, may I throw something into the mix here? in terms of the argument about Daniel Deadweiler and the nominations in terms of the Oscars. So the way this was very much framed was that Daniel Deadweiler should have been nominated, and I agree, I think she should have been. And then there was, okay, as a result of the late in the day campaign for Andrea Reisbrer to get a nomination for too Leslie, she wasn't nominated. This created this false narrative that she was pushed out

by Andrea Rysberer, as we have noted, of course, Daniel, while it is nominated at the BAFTAs, which are this Sunday night. The problem with that is that it imagines a false narrative in which there are four locks and one space that can either be taken by Daniel Deadweiler or Andrea Reisbrough. The truth is there were five nominations. One of them should have been, I believe, Daniel Deadweiler. And if you're going to play this game of, well, why is this person nominating, this other person nominated?

Well, I'm sorry, but, you know, why not Michelle Williams in the Fable Mons? Who's fine? But if you put Michelle Williams performance in the Fable Mons, yeah, it's fine, nice, you know, memory of Steven Spielberg's mother. Next to what Daniel Deadweiler does in Till. It's a complete, it's a completely false equivalent to say it was either or like that.

It wasn't. It was that there were five nominations and none of them were for one of the people that absolutely should have been a lock. There is, we have, do you think that's fair? Yeah, we have a listener's comment about, about the Michelle Williams a bit later on, I think, I think, another one of our takes for the Vanguard. Okay, so correspondentsacominamero.com,

very interesting subject. What else is out? What else can we go and see? Nostalgia, which is not to be concluded, confused with Tockowski's 80s Soviet classic. This is a 2022 Italian French co-production from director and co-writer Mario Motoni. But M-A-R-T-O-N-E, Motoni? Yes, I would say. Based on 2016 novel by Omano Rea, which I have not read, the film was nominated for the Camp

Arm Dore. It won four Nastro Dugento awards for best picture, best screenplay, best supporting actor, best actor for Pierre Francesco Favino. He is Felicci, who returns to his hometown in Naples after 40 years being away. He's returned to care for his ailing mother. Clearly he has unfinished business and he keeps flashing back to his childhood and the childhood is depicted in you know completely different film stock, different film, everything about the film stock tells you this is the flashback thing. He remembers being a wild child when he and another youth called Oresti would run wild on their motorbikes. Now Oresti has become the shadowy mob boss of the area.

Something which comes up in conversation with the local priest on Luigi, with whom he becomes friends and who is working to make the community a better place. Here's a clip. I've always been here. I've always been here. How? You're here.

When you're here, you're here to buy a new one. You're here to buy a new one. When they were talking about the money, they were buying us. They were getting more. When he was doing it, he was doing a big battle against us. But now he's all gone. He's doing it in his own way, because he's a good guy. He's a good guy, but he's a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy, I'm not a good guy.

You're a good guy, but you're a good guy. I'm happy. According to, I'm a good man. I'm not a good man, I'm a good man, I'm a good man. I'm not a good man, I'm a good man. I'm not a good man, I'm a good man. That red wine looks odd. I think it looks more like Rai Bina. There they are. There are lots of wine being consumed there. It didn't look like wine to me.

Straight to the heart of the periphery. As always. You need to point out these things. So what happens is that Flichy talks to Luigi who is running these local projects, but what he won't do is to go into the confessional box. So there is stuff in his past that he is facing up to, but not facing up to. Meanwhile, it's clear that what he's actually trying to do is to reconnect with his past and reconnect with this character who he was friends with, who is now this kind of, Eminence Gleast, this scary presence

in the area, despite the fact that everyone is telling him to leave it, and indeed to leave, you know, we've moved on, you left, go away again. So the performance is very good. I think even from that very brief clip, you could see that it's very naturalistic. You know, I think it has a palpable sense of place. I mean, you could smell the streets, you can feel the air, smell the ribina.

Well, I think in your particular case, I think the way in which it juggles the visuals of the past and present, it's fairly straightforward, but it's well done. And I think it has some very interesting observations to make about the way in which the past and present coexist. I mean, the fact that it's called nostalgia. What nostalgia actually means?

Does it mean a rose tinted memory of something that never existed? Does it is a state of mind? I mean, there's that Woody Allen film, Midnight in Paris, in which the nostalgia just goes back in time only to discover that the time that he's in actually is full of nostalgia for a previous time. It's easy to see why critics love it. I don't love it. I thought it was fine. I think the performances are good and the center place is great. I think it tells quite a long time to tell a story which is

fairly predictable from early on. There are some good uses of music drops, and the photography does put you there in those streets and houses. It felt much more like a kind of mood piece in which, you know, the fire, you could have said from the beginning how the final act is going to play out. But I was, I was interested enough. I just felt it, it's not quite as great as its supporters think it is. Time for a What's On Now. This is where you email us a voice note about your festival, special screening, whatever it is you have to tell us from wherever you are in the universe. Email yours to correspondentsacurbmanomeo.com. Here are this week's correspondents.

Hello, Simon and Mark and listeners. My name's Ben and I'm the Senior Programmer IndyLinks International Film Festival here in Lincoln. We have a whole host of fantastic films coming up, the 23rd to the 25th of February, including Blue Jean, as well as a Q&A afterwards with the director George Oakley, and lots of low budget and independent productions from across the world screening here at the Lincoln Performing Arts Centre, Google Indie Links, that's the 23rd to the 25th of February.

Hello Simon and Mark, this is Alison Gardner, co-director for the Glasgow Film Festival. We return from the first to the 12th of March with world primers, special guests, and the most anticipated indie films of 2023. Events include screenings of Under the Skin, with the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra and a 60th anniversary screening of the Birds. Tickets are on sale now through our website or by calling our box office. So that was fantastic. Both intriguing. That was Ben, the senior programmer at IndyLinks in Lincoln and Alison Gardner, co-director of the Glasgow Film Festival, letting you know about some exciting upcoming events. Send your 20 second audio trailer there about, anyway.

About your event anywhere in the world. Correspondence at KermaderMayo.com. And so, just since the title of the film was flagged up, Blue Jean is fantastic. Blue Jean is really, really well worth seeking out. It's a real kind of indie hit, and it's a terrific movie. Next week, we're gonna be joined by Hugh Jackman,

star of The Sun, but the film is out this week. So let's talk about it now. So this is the new film from Florianzele and writer Christopher Hampton. They collaborated on the father. Again, this is the new film from Florianzele and writer Christopher Hampton. They collaborated on the father. Again, this is a stage play in the father, Anthony Hopkins won an Oscar for best actor. Surprisingly so actually, I think he wasn't, I don't know, he was the favourite.

So he's back again, he has a cameo in this. So they now have made the father the son. He's the only guy. The holy ghost, thank you very much. So they now have made the father the son Holy Ghost, thank you very much, although actually no it turns out it'll be the mother which is the play with We've done with it. There's a talk about doing that as a film with Isabelle Uper who I love So Hugh Jackman is Peter who is the ex-husband of Laura Dern's Kate and father to teenage Nicholas played by its emigroth Peter is now married to Beth, played by Vanessa Kirby. Did you interview Vanessa Kirby?

No, you didn't. There was a film that Vanessa Kirby was in that I was going to say, did you interview her for a piece? No, you ask a question, you answer it. Perfect. Thank you very much, I've got a job on BBC News now. Anyway, they have a new baby. But at the beginning of the film,

as the new baby has put down Kate, the ex-wife arrives saying, Nicholas, their teenage son, has been skipping school. Nicholas hates life. He says he can't stand living with his mom. He wants to live with his dad. But it soon becomes clear that he resents his father's new life. He resents his father's new wife. He resents his father's new wife.

He resents his father's new young child. He is struggling with depression, with self-harm, and amidst his rage, he ends up blaming everyone else, including his own father, whose rage is then somehow transferred back as this becomes like a sort of cycle of aggression. Excuse me, here is a clip. Evan, I always done everything for you. I stayed with your mother for years, for your sake. So why are you saying this? Why? Why tell me why? Isn't because I fell in love with another woman. Is that my crime? How was that any of your business?

Are you the right to reinvent my life? Fuck, it's my life, you hear me? It is my life! I'm sorry Nicholas, I don't know. I don't know what just happened. You'd say he's just, he kind of wrestles with his son and son falls on the floor. Yeah. So you're interviewing Hugh Jackman for next week's show.

And it's a very fine performance by Hugh Jackman. You know, it's got depth and you believe in the character. In fact, actually, all the performances are pretty solid. The elephant in the room is that the film is dealing with a subject which is a very difficult subject matter to deal with without getting things know, getting things wrong. Peter tells Nicholas at one point that he must not hurt himself and he says, why do you hurt yourself? And Nicholas who has been self-harming says, I'm not hurting myself, it doesn't inflict pain, it releases pain. And I remember when I was, when I

heard that line, I thought, okay, you okay, you know, you know this subject. There is a dedication at the end of the film. The film is dedicated for Gabriel. I just did a little bit of searching. Here is what Florian Zellis said about it. There is a dedication at the end of the film and it is too Gabriel, my son. It took me a while to make that decision. Is it fair not to do that? Because it was about trying to go against the shame. I feel that there's a lot of shame around these topics and I wanted to have an open conversation, so I felt maybe I should be the first one not to be ashamed and to open the door. All of which is, you know, it's clearly personal and it's admirable. The problem is that the film, and I the play which I haven't seen I I don't think is good enough to come off as

not mere melodrama I mean compare this for example to Nani Mretis the son's room which is about a couple coming to terms with the the loss of a child I mean the thing is that the subject the central subject about you know depression and anxiety and self-harming, self-destructive feelings. This does need to be talked about. It is a discussion that we need to have about how it affects people, how it affects the

people around the people, particularly young people, how those relationships play out. I think that that subject requires a deaf touch that this doesn't have. That is not to say that there are not things in it that are valid. I mean, the prompts are good. There is a cameo from Anthony Hopkins, which is bond storming as the father of the father of the son. So there's the whole thing about who is the son in the title. And that's seen that we just played. If I remember right, comes immediately after Hugh Jammon has said like an altercation with his father. Yes, in which you see in the encounter with his father, you sort of see everything played out because his father,

it's not a plot spoiler, I don't think his father said, get over it, just get over it. I think the things that are good fall prey to the things that are problematic, which it succumbs to dramatic contrivance, to stage-econtrivance. I think that the finale absolutely falls very, very solidly into that. But I'll say this again, this subject of depression, of self-harming, of anxiety is something which needs to be addressed without shame and is something which needs to be addressed more openly. I think this isn't up to the task, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't attempt and sometimes get it, there is some things in it that you go, yeah, that's right.

Hugh Jackman will be on the program next week. That's the end of take one. Production management in general all round stuff, Lily Hamley, cameras, Teddy Riley, videos, Ryan O'Meara, studio engineer with J.B. or the guest researcher with Sophie Evann. Flynn Rodham was the assistant producer and guest booker Johnny's socials was on the and a mirror. Studio engineer was J.B. or the guest researcher was Sophie Evann. Flynn Rodham was the assistant producer and guest booker Johnny Sochels was on the socials. Hannah Tulbet was the producer and Simon Pulll, redacted in Chief Mark Waters, your film of the week. Marcel The Cell with shoes on. Thanks for saying that five times without saying that.

That's saying phrases. Thanks for listening. Extra takes with the bonus review, bunch of recommendations, and even more stuff about the movies and cinema or adjacent television available right now. And then Ben, Baby, Smith, and Sasha will be with you on Tuesday for Shrink the Box. So much fun, such a little time. Thank you very much indeed for listening.

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